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If you feel pressure to get a healthy school lunch just right for your kids and it's giving you an extra level of stress, I want you to listen to this.
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We're gonna talk through the heart of why school lunch feels so hard for so many parents, and I'm gonna offer you four things today that can relieve that stress.
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Now you can do all of them, or you can just start with one.
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Come back, listen again, and experiment with what works for you.
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Welcome back to the Nutrition for the Earliers podcast with me, your host, Dr.
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Liz Daniels.
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I'm a nutrition first kinopediatrician, and this podcast is for the parent who's second-guessing their grocery cart, worrying if their kid is gonna end up with the same food struggles that they once had.
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I love getting into the weeds of what kids actually need and then putting it into context of where they're at in growth and development so you can let go of the shame and guilt and focus on what actually moves the needle together.
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Let's get into it.
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Welcome back to Nutrition for the Earliers Podcast.
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I'm your host, Dr.
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Liz Daniels, board-certified pediatrician plus registered dietitian, here to give you guilt-free guidance for feeding your family well.
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It is back to school season and it is time for school lunches.
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Now, despite the excitement of school supplies, new shoes, and haircuts, you may have some internal dialogue that's arguing with you about what to pack for lunch, what to say or not say about school food.
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And I want you to lean in if that's you.
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Because today we're gonna talk about the biggest challenges with packing school lunches that I've personally gone through.
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And if I'm going through this, I know other parents are too.
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Now, whether you're a packer or a buyer, this matters.
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We're gonna talk about both, but really today they're kind of like two different levels of parenting guild.
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So we're gonna focus on our packers.
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And next episode, we're gonna talk about buyers because school lunch itself is like kind of a complicated thing.
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And there's a lot that a lot of parents maybe not know about and is going to continue to change for the years to come.
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So as of the time of this recording in 2026, I just want you to know that you are not alone if you are feeling like your head is swirling in this event.
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Before I get started, I actually want to send a thank you out to a dear patient and parent of mine who actually messaged me and said, Dr.
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Daniels, can you just talk about school lunch?
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Because I'm kind of curious how you would approach this.
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And, you know, I know she's not alone.
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So this is for you, okay?
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If you have kindergartners all the way up through middle schoolers, at some point in there, you are going to end up in some tension about school lunch.
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You will.
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And if you're gonna be packing on a regular basis, there will likely be friction.
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So stick with me because I'm gonna walk you through the four things that really sort of shifted this for me and helped it become a much more fun experience without so much grief and stress that we just tend to put on ourselves.
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All right, friends, let's take a little moment down memory lane.
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And I want to take you back to the late 1980s, early 1990s.
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And I was a packer.
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Okay.
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In Central Texas at the time when I grew up, school lunch was a lot like Napoleon dynamite, tater tots, corn dogs, milk.
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I remember the smell of, you know, when they made garlic bread for the spaghetti, which, by the way, I literally never once tried.
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I also remember distinctly the jewelry that my first grade teacher wore.
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And she would lean over us at the table.
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And I just remember looking at her necklaces and thinking, gosh, those are so pretty.
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I adored her.
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And I loved lunch.
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In fact, I used to tell people like it was my favorite subject in school.
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And what I loved the most was probably my Rainbow Bright lunchbox.
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I also had a um strawberry shortcake lunchbox.
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They were the bomb.
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I also would sneak in some Lisa Frank stickers that I would kind of pull out and trade with my friends or show off, you know.
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And I remember sitting next to a dear friend, Valerie.
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Um, shout out to Valerie if you're listening.
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And I remember that the chairs were like really, really hard plastic.
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They'd kind of wobble a little bit and sometimes you'd get lucky and you could spin on one unless you got caught.
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Um I remember that, you know, a couple of times I forgot lunch and I would freak out.
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I would go call from the school phone to my mom and say, Hey, can you can you bring it down?
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That was the one way I learned my parents' phone number by heart.
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But I was so grateful she did that for me because the last thing I wanted to do was buy school lunch.
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And honestly, I can't tell you what it was that I did eat in my packed lunch.
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There's a couple of things I remember my mom packing, but most of all, it was the people I was with.
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Most of all, it was the fun that I got to have at lunch.
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And, you know, the point here is that I wasn't focused on the food.
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And the cool thing is that honestly, I mean, the highlight of the meal was really spending time with my friends and building those relationships.
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And actually, you guys, like, I think that's the thing we forget with our own kids.
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When you pack them this like really healthy lunch, that's probably the last thing on their mind.
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And that's okay.
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In fact, I'd kind of rather it almost be that way.
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I want for them, for school to be so much more important than the lunch.
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But for us as parents, it feels totally the opposite.
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Like this can feel so stressful.
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And I know that as a parent, when I was my turn, I really don't like to admit how much it bothered me.
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And that's where I kind of want to kind of take you next.
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You know, when my oldest son first started eating lunch at school, I remember he'd he'd come home and um I could tell that he'd had like a bite out of a granola bar or sandwich, but everything else was basically crumbs at the bottom of the lunchbox.
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And I remember asking about the food and and he wouldn't remember what he ate or didn't eat.
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He just didn't really have much to say about it.
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And I kind of like wanted to be like, that's fine, no big deal.
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But I also, if I was really honest, felt quite a bit of frustration over time because I'd spent a lot of energy, mental energy, right?
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Planning what he'd have versus what he wouldn't have, thinking through the options, comparing different foods and and really thinking about this in a creative way.
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And honestly, it started to get too like a place where it was also really expensive.
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And when our kids were like young and I was still in training, I really remember pricing out specifically like how much I would budget for school lunch, like snacks and food versus how much it would cost for him to buy food.
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There was just real financial strain for me in thinking about how to do this and how to do it healthy.
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And at the end of the day, I remember feeling pretty guilty.
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Guilty that I'd packed something he probably wouldn't end up eating, or guilty that he might end up being hungry.
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I'd feel frustrated at times that he didn't eat the food.
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And he told me that earlier in the day he really liked and was planning on eating it, and then it came home and it got wasted.
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I'd sometimes feel irritated about that because I wanted to get him something that was actually nutritious.
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And I even remember thinking, like, gosh, if it doesn't matter what I send him, then what am I even supposed to put in there?
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And should I be putting this much energy into it?
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I mean, what gives?
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And on top of that, like the added layer that I know some parents feel the stress for is that for my son specifically, he was on ADHD medicine even pretty young.
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Um, and in that particular scenario, it really did suppress his appetite throughout the day.
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And so I get worried that if he wasn't eating while he was on his medication, he would either feel the side effects from the medication more, or I get worried that, you know, being hungry would um not be noticed and he'd start acting out in other ways.
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I get worried that if he didn't eat enough, it would impact his attention and focus, or even worse, like his ability to learn.
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So I hear this concern because I also hear parents who get worried, like if they're not eating and they're on this medicine or they're not eating throughout the day, how do I know that the problems we're having in school, or how do I know that the challenges we're having with attention and focus aren't just hunger?
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And what do I give them to sustain energy throughout the day?
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And I understand because honestly, like I felt terrible that if somehow I was getting in the way of my kids' success because I wasn't packing them the right lunch, I had this like like ownership that it was all on me, or somehow I was gonna be a failure by not meeting those needs of my kid, especially because I was this pediatrician who was also a dietitian who should know better than X, Y, and Z, or than to send her kid to school with something he's not gonna eat.
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I just kind of like assumed that there were all these eyes on me, watching and judging.
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And honestly, it really wasn't the case at all.
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And I just say that in true honesty because I know other parents feel that way.
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So let me speak to you straight from the heart.
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I see you and I totally get it, which is why the next part of what I want to say is so hard for me to kind of come to an awareness of.
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And honestly, it's hard for me to put this out here because it's my own admission, my own, um, my own worries, my own fears that I had.
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And if I had them, I know I'm not alone.
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And neither are you.
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One of the things that helped me through that little kind of caveat was actually just talking and being honest with his teacher.
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And frankly, like that communication was huge.
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It's not easy for me to speak up about the things that bother me.
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It's not easy for me to kind of like own my worries because I also felt this sort of added pressure that as a professional, I should know better.
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Or, you know, like, but really when it comes to our kids, we are mom and dad.
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Okay.
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Even if you have all of the degrees or all of the accolades, this is still how you feel about your kid.
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And you know what?
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Your teacher's kid probably cares a whole lot more than you might be giving them credit for.
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Like they really care.
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And so far, my 10 years of having kids in school and many years of having teachers and being a learner myself, and then also being a teacher.
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I say all that to say that honestly, I've only had a couple of teachers in my life that I didn't genuinely partner well with.
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But 99% of them have been amazing champions for my kids.
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And, you know, if you share that vulnerability with them, I bet you're gonna get in return a pretty cool person who really wants your kid to succeed and who's gonna help you with insight that you wouldn't have otherwise.
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So don't be afraid to open up.
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Okay.
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Now, back to the point here.
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I noticed that, you know, a lot of the time the school lunches would come back and there really wasn't a lot eaten.
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And I was peeved about this.
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So the thing is, is, is it it took me a long time to kind of reflect on this because I was taking it personally and I didn't want to admit that, right?
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Like, so I kind of swing the other pendulum of instead of being overly overthinking about his lunch, I then kind of went in the opposite direction and said, well, I just want him to have something.
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So I'm gonna get him whatever it is he'll actually eat.
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And then I went through a period of time where I was like, I can't even think about that.
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So just buy lunch.
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And then I, you know, kind of would even have him be involved in the process and think, well, if he picks it out, then he's gonna eat it.
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And you know what, guys?
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No, none of those things were like my savior.
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I had to realize that actually the issue was in here.
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I had to let go of this layer of supervision that I wasn't able to provide my son anymore.
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And a lot of us like start out really wanting to give our kids genuinely healthy food.
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And we work really hard at that.
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Maybe because you want to give them something that you didn't have growing up.
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And when it's not appreciated, it feels kind of discouraging.
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And you try not to take it personally, but sometimes it still happens.
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I mean, hello.
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And when your kid goes through that picky stage, you kind of learn that as a toddler, like you kind of have to let go of some of that control and they have to develop, you know, lots of practice over time.
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And then you enter school and it's a whole new level of having to let go.
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You've curated their meals for years, five years at that point.
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And suddenly, you know, they're being influenced by friends that they've met for two days, and all of a sudden, like your influence is totally out the window.
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And it feels like just so frustrating.
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But I just, you know, and I say that to say that like I didn't really mind that other people were sharing, you know, little Debbie snacks with my son that he hadn't had before, or Cheetos and other things that I really didn't want in his lunchbox.
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But I think the thing that bothered me was that I didn't feel like I had the influence that I thought I had.
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Up until that point, you know, you'd offer him option A or B, both of which were healthy options.
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And so I'd feel fine with whatever he picked.
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But once they're presented with options that are beyond what you would offer them, it can feel like everything you've modeled for years is just kind of vanished.
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And, you know, if you are there, let me just tell you, it does matter.
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Your influence is not gone.
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It's not that it didn't have an effect.
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All those meals that you curated, they still count.
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Okay.
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You just don't see the effects quite yet.
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So hold on, okay?
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It's not lost.
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But the thing here is that our kids actually need experience and they need the chance to figure out what actually matters to them, what they like, what they don't like.
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They need the option to explore how feeding in a different environment that's loud and noisy and probably at a different time than what they were used to eating lunch at all plays into their day.
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They have to experience these things for themselves.
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Okay.
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And the other thing is to remember that flavor is really the primary driver for a lot longer.
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I mean, really, it's the primary thing that drives us to eat what we eat in the first place.
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But for kids, especially, the flavor component is such an important part of their food choices and their food preferences.
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And it's not until we get through a different layer of maturity, usually about middle school, where we learn to connect the value of certain foods for how it feels in our body.
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That connection takes a long time.
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Some kids are good right out the gate, but frankly, especially, you know, Cheetos and hot corn dogs and chocolate milk and tater tots, the hyper palatable foods, you know, that you maybe wouldn't always offer for lunch, those things are gonna taste really good and they're gonna wanna eat a lot of those things.
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They're gonna be driven to do that.
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And that doesn't mean that they just want to eat junk food for the rest of their life.
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Okay.
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So don't think about the future when those things happen.
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It's okay.
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All right.
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Like you know that eating your Brussels sprouts and your veggies is really good for you.
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And you know that like you want to have regular bowel movements, so you're gonna focus on fiber at times.
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You know that you want energy, so you'll think about caffeine in the morning.
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You've learned those things over time.
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Experience has taught you that, right?
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And what's what we learn, experience is like such a good teacher.
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But for a kid to make the connection of I'm lactose intolerant, and therefore when I eat ice cream, I have diarrhea and I now I won't eat ice cream.
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Like those series of connections actually take a lot of practice and reinforcement for them to learn because ice cream tastes really good.
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And so my point here is that like being cued into what your body feels as a response to food and then making choices based on that is a long game.
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Okay.
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And when our kids are starting kindergarten or they're in those first years of school, that's really not what we should be expecting of them.
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Nor should we be alarmed when they really like things that are sweet and salty and crunchy and and have, you know, MSG or cheesy flavor.
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Like those are very normal things.
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You're a normal human.
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But the key here, and my number one point for today is that when you think about what your kid is eating, I want you to take a moment and just ask yourself, what are you worried that repercussion will be if blank doesn't happen or if they don't eat what you prepare them, what are you most worried about?
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If you're looking at your five-year-old and worrying about them as a 40-year-old, like I maybe did, you have permission to let that thought go.
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Right?
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Just let it go right out your head.
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My hope for you is that you can separate your kid's choices at lunch from your performance as a parent.
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Because those are not the same thing.
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All right.
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Part of the reason your kid might also want to eat those Cheetos at lunch is because sharing that exchange is actually part of the relationship building, not just wanting the Cheetos, right?
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Like I remember my son figuring out that if he brought something to trade with his friends for lunch, it helped him make friends.
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And so for a while, we bought Oreos and Chips Ahoy and things that previously we never would have purchased simply because he wanted to make new friends.
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And by the way, it worked.
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But that's not the point.
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It wasn't about the food, it was about the relationship that came with it.
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Right.
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Like at that point in time, they didn't have each other's cell phone numbers, they couldn't text, they didn't get to play video games together, be on each other's sports teams.
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They had that moment.
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And so I leaned in and it was really fun.
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And I have zero regrets about doing that.
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But it took me a while to recognize that that was the point.
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Now, this brings me to the ways that we can have dialogue with our kids.
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Okay.
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Like when it comes to school lunch and being with our friends at the table, I'm I'm no saint, okay, so hear me out.
00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:35.680
Um, but I've practiced a lot of different ways to talk with my kids about food and their day.
00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:39.359
And I'll tell you kind of my catchphrase in case you're new to this content.
00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:44.960
Um, let go of your expectation and focus on the invitation.
00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:46.079
Okay.
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:48.240
And then your words will come.
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:48.960
All right.
00:18:49.279 --> 00:19:05.599
So I think it's actually more important to think about the how of those conversations and that dialogue rather than exactly the right phrasing or the right words, because what comes out of you naturally is going to be authentic and they're going to feel that.
00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:08.640
It's why I spend so much time talking about all the feelings.
00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:20.160
And, you know, this whole podcast so far is all about our feelings because this is what is so essential when I see families that have major breakthroughs and how they sit down and how they how they rewrite their nutrition stories with their kids.
00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:31.200
It's because they slowed down enough to address how they feel about feeding their kids and they let go of those old stories as the first step.
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:37.839
Because once you let that go, it's much easier to respond instead of react.
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:44.079
It's the difference between tell me about your lunch and ooh, tell me about your lunch.
00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:51.759
The other key is just asking questions instead of telling them your impression.
00:19:53.200 --> 00:20:00.640
You can also use the phrase I noticed if you really need to get something across, but like I noticed there's a lot left over.
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.079
Did you not feel very hungry?
00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:04.319
Like you can use the I noticed statements too.
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:06.319
That's key for lots of parenting things.
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:10.400
But the more that they have to do the thinking, the the better.
00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:12.480
Plus, the more you learn.
00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:20.640
For concrete options, if you really need that, I do like to start with closed-ended questions and then broaden it to open-ended questions, like who did you sit with at lunch today?
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:23.519
Or what special did you have today?
00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:26.559
Or did you get enough time to eat at lunch?
00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:30.720
And then I move into the tell me about the bus ride.
00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:33.440
And is there something that you want in your lunchbox tomorrow?
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:39.279
But again, think about the how and your tone before you focus so much on the words.
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.000
Because even if you get it wrong, it's okay.
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:42.880
There's grace.
00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:44.960
You can apologize and move on.
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:46.079
But it's from the heart.
00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:54.799
And when you ask and you have that dialogue based on what you want to know about them and your curiosity about their day, you actually get a lot more insight.
00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:03.039
Okay, now the best way I actually found to get incredible perspective came by accident.
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:05.519
And it's actually my second point today.
00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:08.559
That is to visit them at lunch.
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:10.480
You can be a guest, okay?
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:13.839
So, like I didn't do this as an effort to be a spy.
00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:20.319
Like it totally happened by accident, but in reflection, I learned powerful lessons that I want to share with you.
00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:27.359
It wasn't until my oldest was in about first grade and he had full day, um, uh full day school, and I had a day off.
00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:29.519
So I went and I sat down with him.
00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:30.880
I had, we'd planned it, right?
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:34.720
So you have to like sign in and go through the paperwork to go into school, all that kind of stuff.
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:40.799
And he knew not to bring lunch because I was gonna be bringing McDonald's, which was like a super rare occasion.
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:43.920
And I thought he was going to be so excited about that.
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:49.680
But what he wanted more than the McDonald's was to tell me about his friends.
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:51.200
He wanted to introduce me to them.
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:59.039
He wanted to show me the little Lego guy in his pocket, and he wanted me to know what he had read that morning because he was learning to read and he was really proud of that.
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:01.039
That was the highlight.
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:13.279
And if I'd realized in that moment that 10 years down the road, what he'd remember was my presence and not the McDonald's, I would have been so blown away.
00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:17.440
Because at the time that's not what I thought I was going to be getting out of it.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:17.839
Right.
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.480
Like it was really helpful to see that.
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:27.119
The relationship your kids build at that table are probably more important than just the nutrition that's there.
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:28.640
And that's a win.
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:29.119
Okay.
00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:34.319
Now, when I went to go visit him at lunch, I learned a couple of really important things.
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:45.440
Number one, I learned that it was definitely really early in the day and he probably wasn't very hungry because he had a really he's good at eating breakfast.
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:46.880
That was helpful to know.
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:56.319
I also learned that most of the kids that he was eating around were eating school lunch and throwing away probably 75% of what they were being served.
00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:02.400
I also noticed that he had made friends with some kids that I never would have pictured him with.
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:04.880
And I was so delighted to see that.
00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:10.720
It gave me the opportunity to talk about what they liked about each other and what they were interested in doing.
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:21.279
And it gave me opportunity to talk about something other than lunch because at that point I didn't realize this, but he and I shared no other commonality throughout the school day except for lunch.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:24.160
And to him that was the least important part of the day.
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:32.240
So it gave me insight into so much more you know the names of his like lunch aids and the bus driver and the systems that he was going through.
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:38.960
And by the way also for somebody who had you know ADHD and was really distracted, it was really noisy.
00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:43.920
Sometimes that's a very hard environment for little ones to stay focused enough to eat.
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:50.559
So there's so many factors that I took away from that experience that I wouldn't have been able to realize had I not been there.
00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:52.319
So that's my second takeaway.
00:23:52.480 --> 00:24:01.599
And in the subsequent points I am going to come back to other things that I learned from visiting my son at school but this is a good time for a break.
00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:12.000
All right hey guys quick break here if you have been enjoying this content please do me a favor and leave a rating review because it helps the show reach more parents just like you.
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:14.640
And if you have a question or comment, reach out to me.
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:16.880
I'd genuinely love to hear if something has helped you.
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:28.160
The whole purpose here is to help parents navigate some of the challenges with kids' nutrition from a big picture lens because we get so stuck in the weeds and we hold ourselves back in some pretty silly ways.
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:32.480
It sometimes just takes a little bit of that perspective to get us back on solid ground.
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:34.079
All right welcome back.
00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:41.599
So after we get our own baggage out of the way and we go visit them at lunch, what do we actually offer our kids?
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:42.160
Okay.
00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:44.720
And I have two major takeaways here.
00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:47.599
They're kind of intertwined but they're really valuable.
00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:56.880
So number one, the concept is simple, but it does take a little observation on your end in order to kind of personalize this for you.
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:03.039
My third point is to simplify the process so that it's not all on you.
00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:06.559
And I'll tell you about the system that worked for us.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:08.400
I like systems.
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:13.519
I'm not however Marie Kondo or someone who's super organized.
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:21.920
For me the system that helped was to kind of start with this master list of options within all the main food groups.
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:28.480
So I had, you know, a grain list, a protein list, a fruit, a veggie, a dairy and this was before AI.
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:38.240
I'm sure it's much easier now to just make your own little list of all these options but I kind of wrote down a long list of different options within each of those food groups.
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:44.640
And I would go through that list with my kids in advance of my shopping.
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:50.640
I typically go shopping once a week if I have to go twice okay but like I really try to get it down to once a week.
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:58.720
And so I'd have this sort of master grocery list and they would have had to kind of pick a couple of things that they were thinking they would want the week ahead.
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:04.079
I know kind of hard to do but I did it stick with me.
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:08.880
And I let them choose a couple of items in each category.
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:18.960
And then when I came back from the grocery store I would sort of separate out those things into some bins.
00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:35.519
I'd gone to the dollar store and I got different colored bins for each food group and had my kids color pictures of grain, protein, dairy, fruit and veggie because at that point in time not all of my kids were able to read.
00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:39.279
And so we needed color coded things and we needed pictures.
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:55.279
You can go a step further and actually print out pictures of combined things if you really like we, we, you know, like a sandwich or you know a certain if you had a thermos and you wanted to put like ravioli or other things in there that's sort of like a two in one like your grain and your protein together, right?
00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:56.640
Like you can kind of do that.
00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:02.400
But for me, it was really helpful to have these separated into separate bins.
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:07.920
So I done all the thinking on the front end and then they picked what they wanted.
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:11.920
I got home from the store they had to help me every time I go to the store still to this day they do this.
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:15.200
They help me unload my groceries and so they learned where everything goes in the pantry.
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:36.160
But we would separate those things out into the bins because before this I learned pretty quickly that if I did a big haul on a Sunday by the time Thursday rolls around there's like nothing left in the fridge or the pantry because the kids would somehow eat all of their school lunch stuff for snacks after school or for you know on the weekends or things like that.
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:37.599
And so it would just disappear.
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:42.799
And being on a tight budget that I was, I really needed to pre-portion stuff out.
00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:54.000
So I would actually take the things that were really and I did the do this for everything, but like for my cucumbers and my carrots or fruits or things like that, I would sort of cut them up on a Sunday and individually bag them in the fridge.
00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:57.680
So they were in the fridge had its own little drawer for veggies and our dairy.
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:08.799
And then we had um you know some of the respective like your pretzels or popcorn or things like that would be sort of in their own bags in the lunch boxes depending on that food category.
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:20.319
And so what was really nice is that when they'd wake up in the morning after we got into this rhythm, they would take their lunchbox and they knew that they had to get something from or I asked them to get something from each bin.
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:28.640
And so their lunchbox had a fruit, a grain, a dairy, you know, had all the components and I know that sounds like a ton of work but hear me out.
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:34.880
It actually was really easy because they they were involved in that whole process.
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:42.400
And the cool part here is that it actually helped us learn like those buckets were for lunch only.
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:47.279
So when they weren't out and available like they didn't get accessed.
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:57.119
And so they made it through the whole week and it really helped me understand too that like they really were capable of making their lunch from an even very early age.
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:02.079
And it took a lot of pressure off of me right like they got to pick what was there.
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:06.480
They got to be involved in the process and if they didn't love it then that's okay.
00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:10.720
Like it still was at least provided right and it did a couple of awesome things.
00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:21.519
It helped them of course get autonomy in choosing some options and it also taught them that a lunch or a balanced meal actually had multiple components that go together.
00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:33.599
And that was really kind of not an intentional part of the process but it actually was a big takeaway and now like it's just so part of building their plate that they recognize oh yeah, this is what we do.
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:46.559
This is what a meal looks like right and the best part for me was that it meant I had done my job, which was to be responsible for providing the food and offering some structure.
00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:50.400
But that if they didn't eat it, it wasn't on me, right?
00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:52.160
Like it wasn't my fault.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:56.319
And taking that mental load off of me was such a relief.
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:00.880
I knew okay, I did my part and then they get to do theirs.
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:10.960
And it helped me feel like I could kind of focus on what my task was because there's sort of a saying that you know whatever jobs you do for your kids, you'll continue to do for them.
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:15.680
And so you have to let them get that experience and that practice.
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:28.240
And this sort of leads me to the other thing I learned while visiting my boys for lunch and that's really my fourth point today which is how much kids eat at lunch is wildly different.
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:28.799
Okay.
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:35.759
And what we serve our kids for school lunch may not actually be the serving size that's really right for them.
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:46.640
And at that point in time like I I think I knew that sort of in my mind, but I I didn't really like see it in effect until I went to go visit him.
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:48.400
Here's what I mean.
00:30:48.559 --> 00:31:02.960
When I noticed what other kids were eating what sort of serving sizes were in their lunchboxes versus mine, it was like this kind of impressive opportunity to recognize that like we are all so very different.
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:22.880
And in the same way, like I don't say that to judge I just say that because like you know you you know that in your own head but like you only know your own experience right and as a pediatrician I spend a lot of time talking with my patients about the growth curve and I get to care for kids across that spectrum and even across like our our size spectrum.
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:28.000
So like I have kids who are the second percentile and have always been that way.
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:32.400
And I have kids who are the 95th percentile and have always been that way.
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:36.240
And both of those kids can be perfectly healthy.
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:50.559
It's it's really about understanding that that difference isn't necessarily problematic, but that difference means that our portions are going to start to vary a little bit more as we mature.
00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:57.759
And I like to highlight this not because there's one that's right and one that's wrong, but because we have different belly sizes and we need different amounts of food.
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:23.599
And so when we're preparing our kids meal for lunch, it's really kind of our first time to learn what they eat in that span of time as their day is different and understand too like I recall another time I went to go visit a different kid at his at his different school I think it's like second, third grade and um and it was I was keenly aware that like as I was sitting at the table there were some lunch boxes filled to the brim, some that didn't have a whole lot in there.
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:30.799
And you know like it was just a good reminder that we all have different needs.
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:38.480
And we also at that age start to eat for pleasure too right like I mentioned some of those hyperpalatable foods.
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:49.599
Well sometimes our kids are going to eat all of those things because they taste really good not necessarily because we're listening to those hunger cues and listening to just what our bodies tell us.
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:55.680
And the older a kid gets the harder it can become to listen to those signals if we're not really attuned to them.
00:32:56.160 --> 00:33:02.079
So when a kid comes home with like an empty lunchbox, it doesn't necessarily mean that you need to pack more.
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:08.000
It might actually mean that either they dumped half of it in the trash or they ate everything because it just tasted really, really good.
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:19.200
So for our little ones who are like four and under, I do like to think of kind of a serving size as being about the size of their palm per like food group.
00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:22.799
So you know like how much pretzels what could fit in their hand, right?
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:24.880
Like in berries and like an ounce of meat.
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:35.920
I'm going to get into a couple of the specifics here in just a second on some of those serving sizes but understand as kids get older, the spread of what one kid needs versus another kid needs are going to widen more and more.
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:48.640
And the the hard part here too is that like and we'll talk about this next week as the as we talk about the um school lunches but the USDA portions are very calculated and very specific.
00:33:48.720 --> 00:34:00.079
So they have a very specific serving size that have to be given because they're meeting 98% of kids' needs you know at a certain time like they're they're matching certain metrics.
00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:02.319
But that might not be what's right for you.
00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:19.360
In fact, like here's an example if you think about a bag of chips or a bag of pirate's booty or things like that, servings of pudding or little Debbie snacks, processed lunch, that kind of stuff, those pre-packaged servings are honestly more than a lot of little kids needs.
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:26.559
And because they taste so good, I would argue that it can actually displace some of the calories they need from the other food.
00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:33.119
So the trick here isn't that you don't offer foods that they like it's that you don't have to give them the whole bag.
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:40.159
In fact like this awareness came to us after my husband and I got into a really big fight a few years ago.
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:43.920
And in this case he won, I'm sorry to say.
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:46.639
But it wasn't because we were fighting about food.
00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:56.159
It was actually because he was so frustrated with the amount of plastic wrappers and garbage produced by having three kids in school all packing their lunch.
00:34:56.719 --> 00:35:01.280
So we decided to switch to family size packages for some things.
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:20.639
And lo and behold when we prepped our food for the week we learned that our kids actually adjusted the amount that they needed and we helped them with that too but it meant not only less waste for us all, but I didn't feel so bad when we bought a big bag of chips because it actually lasted longer which ended up meaning less waste for us all.
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:38.400
I do let my kids eat chips however okay but I found that if I give them the whole bag of chips some dried fruit a sandwich baby carrots that's like just too much for my little one right so like my seven year old would come home and everything would be left in lunchbox except for that bag of chips.
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:47.440
And he may have eaten enough calories to get him through the day, but it wasn't necessarily in the proportion of other macronutrients that really gave him the best energy.
00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:57.440
So when we switched over to you know portioning out our own serving sizes it actually enabled him to not only get some of the chips he really enjoyed, but he ate other things.
00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:00.559
And that was a much better option for us all.
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:09.760
I know wild but like this is just an example of how we provided some structure without having to be controlling.
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:18.639
And that enabled us to practice what moderation can look like because you know kids really don't instinctively know how to do that at this age.
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:21.119
They do need scaffolding with these skills.
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:24.159
And this was just really important, right?
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:59.599
And when we have these conversations with them, it's it's important to understand that teaching body awareness and interoception skills of understanding how we feel, what makes us feel satiated versus really full are conversations that take time and they take practice with so if our goal is to understand how what we eat makes us feel, I want you to know that for a lot of kids that really takes about till nearly 10 for a lot of kids to understand those kinds of cause and effect.
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:06.880
And so being careful about the portions that we offer little kids is a pretty delicate area.
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:15.440
And you do have to give a little bit more awareness to that because sometimes it's not always really dialed in.
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:20.559
And this is kind of tricky because I think the word hunger can mean a lot of different things to little kids.
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:31.119
And so I think there's so much nuance in in where I'm heading with this but hear me when I say that the portion size is something that you can experiment with.
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:35.039
I am not advocating that we let our kids be hungry at lunchtime.
00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:49.519
I'm simply offering that what we get in the store with our portion sizes and our serving sizes may not be really attuned to your child and you can with freedom adjust that.
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:50.159
Right.
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:58.960
And so understand that like it may also be helpful to think about using words other than hunger.
00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:11.519
Sometimes kids say I'm hungry from very early on and realize that they can get attention when they ask for food or they can say I'm hungry and that gets them a cookie that they wouldn't ordinarily get or something different.
00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:13.599
And I and they're really smart.
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:14.639
They're really creative.
00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:15.840
And that's not a bad thing.
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:20.400
It's just it's okay to sort of adjust what you're noticing.
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:27.599
In fact, you know, I don't know if you're aware of this or not but like restaurants and cafeterias actually do something very objective to understand this really well.
00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:30.320
And it's called plate waste analysis.
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:43.199
They actually measure how much gets thrown away and how much um and they do this by adjusting serving sizes, portions and they and they use that to help forecast their menus because they don't want to pay for food that they're going to throw away right like they need to be able to make a profit somehow.
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:46.559
And so if they're throwing it all away, then that doesn't get them where they need to go.
00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:59.679
And so you have the same opportunity every single time your kid's lunchbox comes home instead of like just asking them about why they didn't eat something you can simply look at it and like think about what they needed, right?
00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:11.599
So like if your lunchbox keeps coming back barely touched, try on the next meal packing the same variety but with half of the serving sizes on each of those things and just see what happens.
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:14.400
And if that hurts your heart to do that, then that's okay.
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:21.760
You can consider putting the other half of the lunch in their backpack for the bus ride home or for you know, you know, if they get really hungry they can get to it.
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:26.159
So they have access to it, but it's not necessarily in the actual lunch box itself.
00:39:26.320 --> 00:39:30.960
Sometimes it can put a lot of pressure on a kid to just be served a portion that's way more than what they need.
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:44.000
All right so for a couple of concrete things just for those of you who have stuck around you might be surprised to hear this but actually a half of a sandwich or even a quarter of a sandwich maybe all your little one really needs for that part of it.
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:49.519
And then you know a handful of popcorn their handful size of popcorn might be enough.
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:57.599
You might want to do some pretzels but you might think about just maybe what's on the serving size like half of that or even a third of that.
00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:08.079
When it comes to um muffins I typically recommend doing mini muffins in lunch boxes for little ones as opposed to a big regular muffin if you happen to do breakfast for lunch.
00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:21.199
You might think about just like an ounce of meat turkey or if you have um some salami or some types of lunches lunch meat that you like to serve a single egg is plenty if you do hard boiled eggs.
00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:27.840
A tablespoon or two of peanut butter so the protein balls that I have alluded to a couple times on my Instagram page are also pretty small.
00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:32.079
And so they're about a tablespoon and a half in terms of like their actual serving size.
00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:38.639
Half of an apple right a small clementine about seven to ten grapes is probably enough.
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:47.440
It doesn't take a lot for our little ones and you might just give that a shot and see how it goes before you send a whole lot extra there.
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:52.159
Now as we wrap up I just want to say thank you again for listening all the way to the end.
00:40:52.320 --> 00:41:02.719
And you know if your kid's a packer and you really want to support them in eating healthy and helping build that kind of lifelong healthy eater then please don't take their behavior personally.
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:07.840
It's not a reflection on your parenting and it doesn't mean they'll eat junk food for the rest of their life, right?
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:17.599
They are getting the chance to experience new things, eat with friends and there's so many factors influencing what they eat that has nothing to do with you.
00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:19.519
So look at the big picture.
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:27.039
Make a system that offers structure so that you don't have to do all of the thinking and offers them age appropriate autonomy.
00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:33.840
And if you get a chance go be a fly in the wall at one of their school lunches or be a guest and go and meet them for lunch.
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:36.320
It is genuinely so informative.
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:42.880
And don't be afraid to play around with the portion sizes because you might be offering way more than they actually need.
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:45.280
And that feedback is actually a gift.
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:47.360
Okay now thank you again.
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:50.639
I'd love to hear what's working for you in the lunchbox department.
00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:54.639
So send me a note just like a little lunchbox note from you to me.
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:56.320
I'd love to know what's going well.
00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:58.639
And if something's been challenging reach out.
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:00.239
I'm excited to hear from you.
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:06.480
So I hope you join me next week as we talk about school based lunches and all the fun that comes with that territory.
00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:08.960
Thanks so much guys I'll see you next week
00:00:00.239 --> 00:00:09.679
If you feel pressure to get a healthy school lunch just right for your kids and it's giving you an extra level of stress, I want you to listen to this.
00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:19.440
We're gonna talk through the heart of why school lunch feels so hard for so many parents, and I'm gonna offer you four things today that can relieve that stress.
00:00:19.679 --> 00:00:22.879
Now you can do all of them, or you can just start with one.
00:00:23.039 --> 00:00:26.480
Come back, listen again, and experiment with what works for you.
00:00:27.280 --> 00:00:30.480
Welcome back to the Nutrition for the Earliers podcast with me, your host, Dr.
00:00:30.559 --> 00:00:31.280
Liz Daniels.
00:00:31.359 --> 00:00:41.039
I'm a nutrition first kinopediatrician, and this podcast is for the parent who's second-guessing their grocery cart, worrying if their kid is gonna end up with the same food struggles that they once had.
00:00:41.280 --> 00:00:53.759
I love getting into the weeds of what kids actually need and then putting it into context of where they're at in growth and development so you can let go of the shame and guilt and focus on what actually moves the needle together.
00:00:54.399 --> 00:00:55.840
Let's get into it.
00:00:56.960 --> 00:00:59.359
Welcome back to Nutrition for the Earliers Podcast.
00:00:59.439 --> 00:01:00.079
I'm your host, Dr.
00:01:00.240 --> 00:01:06.799
Liz Daniels, board-certified pediatrician plus registered dietitian, here to give you guilt-free guidance for feeding your family well.
00:01:07.120 --> 00:01:11.280
It is back to school season and it is time for school lunches.
00:01:11.439 --> 00:01:25.760
Now, despite the excitement of school supplies, new shoes, and haircuts, you may have some internal dialogue that's arguing with you about what to pack for lunch, what to say or not say about school food.
00:01:25.840 --> 00:01:28.719
And I want you to lean in if that's you.
00:01:28.959 --> 00:01:35.200
Because today we're gonna talk about the biggest challenges with packing school lunches that I've personally gone through.
00:01:35.359 --> 00:01:38.640
And if I'm going through this, I know other parents are too.
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Now, whether you're a packer or a buyer, this matters.
00:01:43.439 --> 00:01:48.959
We're gonna talk about both, but really today they're kind of like two different levels of parenting guild.
00:01:49.359 --> 00:01:52.079
So we're gonna focus on our packers.
00:01:52.560 --> 00:01:59.359
And next episode, we're gonna talk about buyers because school lunch itself is like kind of a complicated thing.
00:01:59.519 --> 00:02:05.519
And there's a lot that a lot of parents maybe not know about and is going to continue to change for the years to come.
00:02:05.680 --> 00:02:14.479
So as of the time of this recording in 2026, I just want you to know that you are not alone if you are feeling like your head is swirling in this event.
00:02:15.120 --> 00:02:21.680
Before I get started, I actually want to send a thank you out to a dear patient and parent of mine who actually messaged me and said, Dr.
00:02:21.759 --> 00:02:23.919
Daniels, can you just talk about school lunch?
00:02:24.080 --> 00:02:27.680
Because I'm kind of curious how you would approach this.
00:02:27.919 --> 00:02:30.879
And, you know, I know she's not alone.
00:02:31.120 --> 00:02:32.879
So this is for you, okay?
00:02:33.199 --> 00:02:42.400
If you have kindergartners all the way up through middle schoolers, at some point in there, you are going to end up in some tension about school lunch.
00:02:42.560 --> 00:02:43.039
You will.
00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:46.960
And if you're gonna be packing on a regular basis, there will likely be friction.
00:02:47.120 --> 00:03:02.000
So stick with me because I'm gonna walk you through the four things that really sort of shifted this for me and helped it become a much more fun experience without so much grief and stress that we just tend to put on ourselves.
00:03:02.240 --> 00:03:05.520
All right, friends, let's take a little moment down memory lane.
00:03:05.680 --> 00:03:10.000
And I want to take you back to the late 1980s, early 1990s.
00:03:10.159 --> 00:03:12.159
And I was a packer.
00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:12.639
Okay.
00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:20.319
In Central Texas at the time when I grew up, school lunch was a lot like Napoleon dynamite, tater tots, corn dogs, milk.
00:03:20.479 --> 00:03:27.199
I remember the smell of, you know, when they made garlic bread for the spaghetti, which, by the way, I literally never once tried.
00:03:27.439 --> 00:03:31.759
I also remember distinctly the jewelry that my first grade teacher wore.
00:03:31.919 --> 00:03:33.680
And she would lean over us at the table.
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And I just remember looking at her necklaces and thinking, gosh, those are so pretty.
00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:40.400
I adored her.
00:03:40.560 --> 00:03:42.719
And I loved lunch.
00:03:42.960 --> 00:03:47.120
In fact, I used to tell people like it was my favorite subject in school.
00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:51.599
And what I loved the most was probably my Rainbow Bright lunchbox.
00:03:51.759 --> 00:03:54.800
I also had a um strawberry shortcake lunchbox.
00:03:54.960 --> 00:03:56.159
They were the bomb.
00:03:56.319 --> 00:04:03.039
I also would sneak in some Lisa Frank stickers that I would kind of pull out and trade with my friends or show off, you know.
00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:06.800
And I remember sitting next to a dear friend, Valerie.
00:04:06.879 --> 00:04:08.639
Um, shout out to Valerie if you're listening.
00:04:08.800 --> 00:04:13.280
And I remember that the chairs were like really, really hard plastic.
00:04:13.360 --> 00:04:17.839
They'd kind of wobble a little bit and sometimes you'd get lucky and you could spin on one unless you got caught.
00:04:18.000 --> 00:04:23.519
Um I remember that, you know, a couple of times I forgot lunch and I would freak out.
00:04:23.759 --> 00:04:27.920
I would go call from the school phone to my mom and say, Hey, can you can you bring it down?
00:04:28.160 --> 00:04:31.519
That was the one way I learned my parents' phone number by heart.
00:04:32.079 --> 00:04:37.360
But I was so grateful she did that for me because the last thing I wanted to do was buy school lunch.
00:04:37.600 --> 00:04:42.800
And honestly, I can't tell you what it was that I did eat in my packed lunch.
00:04:42.959 --> 00:04:47.920
There's a couple of things I remember my mom packing, but most of all, it was the people I was with.
00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:52.480
Most of all, it was the fun that I got to have at lunch.
00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:58.000
And, you know, the point here is that I wasn't focused on the food.
00:04:58.480 --> 00:05:05.360
And the cool thing is that honestly, I mean, the highlight of the meal was really spending time with my friends and building those relationships.
00:05:05.519 --> 00:05:09.839
And actually, you guys, like, I think that's the thing we forget with our own kids.
00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:16.879
When you pack them this like really healthy lunch, that's probably the last thing on their mind.
00:05:17.439 --> 00:05:19.279
And that's okay.
00:05:19.600 --> 00:05:23.120
In fact, I'd kind of rather it almost be that way.
00:05:23.279 --> 00:05:28.399
I want for them, for school to be so much more important than the lunch.
00:05:29.360 --> 00:05:33.120
But for us as parents, it feels totally the opposite.
00:05:33.199 --> 00:05:35.839
Like this can feel so stressful.
00:05:36.319 --> 00:05:42.319
And I know that as a parent, when I was my turn, I really don't like to admit how much it bothered me.
00:05:42.399 --> 00:05:45.360
And that's where I kind of want to kind of take you next.
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You know, when my oldest son first started eating lunch at school, I remember he'd he'd come home and um I could tell that he'd had like a bite out of a granola bar or sandwich, but everything else was basically crumbs at the bottom of the lunchbox.
00:05:58.720 --> 00:06:04.000
And I remember asking about the food and and he wouldn't remember what he ate or didn't eat.
00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:06.879
He just didn't really have much to say about it.
00:06:07.120 --> 00:06:10.879
And I kind of like wanted to be like, that's fine, no big deal.
00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:20.319
But I also, if I was really honest, felt quite a bit of frustration over time because I'd spent a lot of energy, mental energy, right?
00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:29.439
Planning what he'd have versus what he wouldn't have, thinking through the options, comparing different foods and and really thinking about this in a creative way.
00:06:29.680 --> 00:06:34.399
And honestly, it started to get too like a place where it was also really expensive.
00:06:34.720 --> 00:06:50.160
And when our kids were like young and I was still in training, I really remember pricing out specifically like how much I would budget for school lunch, like snacks and food versus how much it would cost for him to buy food.
00:06:50.240 --> 00:06:55.199
There was just real financial strain for me in thinking about how to do this and how to do it healthy.
00:06:55.360 --> 00:06:58.399
And at the end of the day, I remember feeling pretty guilty.
00:06:58.639 --> 00:07:05.040
Guilty that I'd packed something he probably wouldn't end up eating, or guilty that he might end up being hungry.
00:07:05.279 --> 00:07:07.839
I'd feel frustrated at times that he didn't eat the food.
00:07:07.920 --> 00:07:13.600
And he told me that earlier in the day he really liked and was planning on eating it, and then it came home and it got wasted.
00:07:13.839 --> 00:07:19.600
I'd sometimes feel irritated about that because I wanted to get him something that was actually nutritious.
00:07:19.839 --> 00:07:24.959
And I even remember thinking, like, gosh, if it doesn't matter what I send him, then what am I even supposed to put in there?
00:07:25.040 --> 00:07:27.120
And should I be putting this much energy into it?
00:07:27.199 --> 00:07:29.040
I mean, what gives?
00:07:29.920 --> 00:07:39.680
And on top of that, like the added layer that I know some parents feel the stress for is that for my son specifically, he was on ADHD medicine even pretty young.
00:07:39.839 --> 00:07:45.600
Um, and in that particular scenario, it really did suppress his appetite throughout the day.
00:07:45.759 --> 00:07:59.120
And so I get worried that if he wasn't eating while he was on his medication, he would either feel the side effects from the medication more, or I get worried that, you know, being hungry would um not be noticed and he'd start acting out in other ways.
00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:06.079
I get worried that if he didn't eat enough, it would impact his attention and focus, or even worse, like his ability to learn.
00:08:06.399 --> 00:08:25.600
So I hear this concern because I also hear parents who get worried, like if they're not eating and they're on this medicine or they're not eating throughout the day, how do I know that the problems we're having in school, or how do I know that the challenges we're having with attention and focus aren't just hunger?
00:08:26.079 --> 00:08:29.600
And what do I give them to sustain energy throughout the day?
00:08:29.839 --> 00:08:54.799
And I understand because honestly, like I felt terrible that if somehow I was getting in the way of my kids' success because I wasn't packing them the right lunch, I had this like like ownership that it was all on me, or somehow I was gonna be a failure by not meeting those needs of my kid, especially because I was this pediatrician who was also a dietitian who should know better than X, Y, and Z, or than to send her kid to school with something he's not gonna eat.
00:08:55.039 --> 00:09:00.480
I just kind of like assumed that there were all these eyes on me, watching and judging.
00:09:00.799 --> 00:09:04.879
And honestly, it really wasn't the case at all.
00:09:05.200 --> 00:09:11.360
And I just say that in true honesty because I know other parents feel that way.
00:09:11.919 --> 00:09:14.320
So let me speak to you straight from the heart.
00:09:14.559 --> 00:09:27.600
I see you and I totally get it, which is why the next part of what I want to say is so hard for me to kind of come to an awareness of.
00:09:27.679 --> 00:09:34.159
And honestly, it's hard for me to put this out here because it's my own admission, my own, um, my own worries, my own fears that I had.
00:09:34.240 --> 00:09:36.879
And if I had them, I know I'm not alone.
00:09:37.039 --> 00:09:38.559
And neither are you.
00:09:38.960 --> 00:09:45.120
One of the things that helped me through that little kind of caveat was actually just talking and being honest with his teacher.
00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:48.639
And frankly, like that communication was huge.
00:09:48.799 --> 00:09:52.240
It's not easy for me to speak up about the things that bother me.
00:09:52.320 --> 00:10:00.799
It's not easy for me to kind of like own my worries because I also felt this sort of added pressure that as a professional, I should know better.
00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:05.440
Or, you know, like, but really when it comes to our kids, we are mom and dad.
00:10:05.600 --> 00:10:05.919
Okay.
00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:11.679
Even if you have all of the degrees or all of the accolades, this is still how you feel about your kid.
00:10:11.759 --> 00:10:12.559
And you know what?
00:10:12.720 --> 00:10:18.159
Your teacher's kid probably cares a whole lot more than you might be giving them credit for.
00:10:18.320 --> 00:10:20.159
Like they really care.
00:10:20.480 --> 00:10:28.080
And so far, my 10 years of having kids in school and many years of having teachers and being a learner myself, and then also being a teacher.
00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:34.000
I say all that to say that honestly, I've only had a couple of teachers in my life that I didn't genuinely partner well with.
00:10:34.240 --> 00:10:38.320
But 99% of them have been amazing champions for my kids.
00:10:38.480 --> 00:10:50.799
And, you know, if you share that vulnerability with them, I bet you're gonna get in return a pretty cool person who really wants your kid to succeed and who's gonna help you with insight that you wouldn't have otherwise.
00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:52.639
So don't be afraid to open up.
00:10:52.879 --> 00:10:53.200
Okay.
00:10:54.080 --> 00:10:58.080
Now, back to the point here.
00:10:58.559 --> 00:11:04.720
I noticed that, you know, a lot of the time the school lunches would come back and there really wasn't a lot eaten.
00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:07.360
And I was peeved about this.
00:11:07.600 --> 00:11:17.600
So the thing is, is, is it it took me a long time to kind of reflect on this because I was taking it personally and I didn't want to admit that, right?
00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:28.720
Like, so I kind of swing the other pendulum of instead of being overly overthinking about his lunch, I then kind of went in the opposite direction and said, well, I just want him to have something.
00:11:28.799 --> 00:11:31.919
So I'm gonna get him whatever it is he'll actually eat.
00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:36.000
And then I went through a period of time where I was like, I can't even think about that.
00:11:36.159 --> 00:11:37.759
So just buy lunch.
00:11:38.080 --> 00:11:45.039
And then I, you know, kind of would even have him be involved in the process and think, well, if he picks it out, then he's gonna eat it.
00:11:45.279 --> 00:11:46.720
And you know what, guys?
00:11:47.039 --> 00:11:50.080
No, none of those things were like my savior.
00:11:50.399 --> 00:11:54.559
I had to realize that actually the issue was in here.
00:11:54.720 --> 00:12:02.320
I had to let go of this layer of supervision that I wasn't able to provide my son anymore.
00:12:03.360 --> 00:12:08.720
And a lot of us like start out really wanting to give our kids genuinely healthy food.
00:12:08.879 --> 00:12:11.440
And we work really hard at that.
00:12:11.840 --> 00:12:15.679
Maybe because you want to give them something that you didn't have growing up.
00:12:15.919 --> 00:12:19.679
And when it's not appreciated, it feels kind of discouraging.
00:12:20.000 --> 00:12:23.039
And you try not to take it personally, but sometimes it still happens.
00:12:23.200 --> 00:12:24.320
I mean, hello.
00:12:24.879 --> 00:12:34.240
And when your kid goes through that picky stage, you kind of learn that as a toddler, like you kind of have to let go of some of that control and they have to develop, you know, lots of practice over time.
00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:40.159
And then you enter school and it's a whole new level of having to let go.
00:12:40.399 --> 00:12:43.759
You've curated their meals for years, five years at that point.
00:12:43.840 --> 00:12:51.120
And suddenly, you know, they're being influenced by friends that they've met for two days, and all of a sudden, like your influence is totally out the window.
00:12:51.360 --> 00:12:55.039
And it feels like just so frustrating.
00:12:55.279 --> 00:13:06.159
But I just, you know, and I say that to say that like I didn't really mind that other people were sharing, you know, little Debbie snacks with my son that he hadn't had before, or Cheetos and other things that I really didn't want in his lunchbox.
00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:13.679
But I think the thing that bothered me was that I didn't feel like I had the influence that I thought I had.
00:13:14.799 --> 00:13:19.279
Up until that point, you know, you'd offer him option A or B, both of which were healthy options.
00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:21.279
And so I'd feel fine with whatever he picked.
00:13:21.360 --> 00:13:28.960
But once they're presented with options that are beyond what you would offer them, it can feel like everything you've modeled for years is just kind of vanished.
00:13:29.200 --> 00:13:35.279
And, you know, if you are there, let me just tell you, it does matter.
00:13:35.440 --> 00:13:37.679
Your influence is not gone.
00:13:37.919 --> 00:13:40.080
It's not that it didn't have an effect.
00:13:40.320 --> 00:13:43.279
All those meals that you curated, they still count.
00:13:43.440 --> 00:13:43.759
Okay.
00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:46.399
You just don't see the effects quite yet.
00:13:46.480 --> 00:13:48.080
So hold on, okay?
00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:49.679
It's not lost.
00:13:50.000 --> 00:14:00.559
But the thing here is that our kids actually need experience and they need the chance to figure out what actually matters to them, what they like, what they don't like.
00:14:00.879 --> 00:14:12.399
They need the option to explore how feeding in a different environment that's loud and noisy and probably at a different time than what they were used to eating lunch at all plays into their day.
00:14:12.559 --> 00:14:14.879
They have to experience these things for themselves.
00:14:15.039 --> 00:14:15.360
Okay.
00:14:15.600 --> 00:14:23.919
And the other thing is to remember that flavor is really the primary driver for a lot longer.
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:27.279
I mean, really, it's the primary thing that drives us to eat what we eat in the first place.
00:14:27.519 --> 00:14:35.759
But for kids, especially, the flavor component is such an important part of their food choices and their food preferences.
00:14:36.159 --> 00:14:48.720
And it's not until we get through a different layer of maturity, usually about middle school, where we learn to connect the value of certain foods for how it feels in our body.
00:14:48.879 --> 00:14:51.360
That connection takes a long time.
00:14:51.519 --> 00:15:08.159
Some kids are good right out the gate, but frankly, especially, you know, Cheetos and hot corn dogs and chocolate milk and tater tots, the hyper palatable foods, you know, that you maybe wouldn't always offer for lunch, those things are gonna taste really good and they're gonna wanna eat a lot of those things.
00:15:08.240 --> 00:15:09.679
They're gonna be driven to do that.
00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:13.440
And that doesn't mean that they just want to eat junk food for the rest of their life.
00:15:13.600 --> 00:15:13.919
Okay.
00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:19.039
So don't think about the future when those things happen.
00:15:19.279 --> 00:15:20.159
It's okay.
00:15:20.399 --> 00:15:20.799
All right.
00:15:20.960 --> 00:15:25.120
Like you know that eating your Brussels sprouts and your veggies is really good for you.
00:15:25.279 --> 00:15:29.679
And you know that like you want to have regular bowel movements, so you're gonna focus on fiber at times.
00:15:29.840 --> 00:15:33.200
You know that you want energy, so you'll think about caffeine in the morning.
00:15:33.360 --> 00:15:35.200
You've learned those things over time.
00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:37.679
Experience has taught you that, right?
00:15:38.159 --> 00:15:42.720
And what's what we learn, experience is like such a good teacher.
00:15:42.879 --> 00:15:52.399
But for a kid to make the connection of I'm lactose intolerant, and therefore when I eat ice cream, I have diarrhea and I now I won't eat ice cream.
00:15:52.480 --> 00:16:00.720
Like those series of connections actually take a lot of practice and reinforcement for them to learn because ice cream tastes really good.
00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:11.440
And so my point here is that like being cued into what your body feels as a response to food and then making choices based on that is a long game.
00:16:11.679 --> 00:16:12.000
Okay.
00:16:12.159 --> 00:16:20.320
And when our kids are starting kindergarten or they're in those first years of school, that's really not what we should be expecting of them.
00:16:20.799 --> 00:16:30.080
Nor should we be alarmed when they really like things that are sweet and salty and crunchy and and have, you know, MSG or cheesy flavor.
00:16:30.159 --> 00:16:31.919
Like those are very normal things.
00:16:32.000 --> 00:16:33.120
You're a normal human.
00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:52.879
But the key here, and my number one point for today is that when you think about what your kid is eating, I want you to take a moment and just ask yourself, what are you worried that repercussion will be if blank doesn't happen or if they don't eat what you prepare them, what are you most worried about?
00:16:53.759 --> 00:17:04.240
If you're looking at your five-year-old and worrying about them as a 40-year-old, like I maybe did, you have permission to let that thought go.
00:17:04.880 --> 00:17:05.279
Right?
00:17:05.440 --> 00:17:06.880
Just let it go right out your head.
00:17:07.440 --> 00:17:13.839
My hope for you is that you can separate your kid's choices at lunch from your performance as a parent.
00:17:14.720 --> 00:17:17.279
Because those are not the same thing.
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:18.160
All right.
00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:28.720
Part of the reason your kid might also want to eat those Cheetos at lunch is because sharing that exchange is actually part of the relationship building, not just wanting the Cheetos, right?
00:17:28.799 --> 00:17:36.559
Like I remember my son figuring out that if he brought something to trade with his friends for lunch, it helped him make friends.
00:17:36.799 --> 00:17:46.240
And so for a while, we bought Oreos and Chips Ahoy and things that previously we never would have purchased simply because he wanted to make new friends.
00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:49.680
And by the way, it worked.
00:17:50.640 --> 00:17:52.400
But that's not the point.
00:17:52.480 --> 00:17:56.160
It wasn't about the food, it was about the relationship that came with it.
00:17:56.319 --> 00:17:56.640
Right.
00:17:56.799 --> 00:18:03.759
Like at that point in time, they didn't have each other's cell phone numbers, they couldn't text, they didn't get to play video games together, be on each other's sports teams.
00:18:04.079 --> 00:18:05.359
They had that moment.
00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:10.640
And so I leaned in and it was really fun.
00:18:10.720 --> 00:18:13.519
And I have zero regrets about doing that.
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:17.680
But it took me a while to recognize that that was the point.
00:18:18.319 --> 00:18:22.240
Now, this brings me to the ways that we can have dialogue with our kids.
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:22.640
Okay.
00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:29.759
Like when it comes to school lunch and being with our friends at the table, I'm I'm no saint, okay, so hear me out.
00:18:29.920 --> 00:18:35.680
Um, but I've practiced a lot of different ways to talk with my kids about food and their day.
00:18:35.759 --> 00:18:39.359
And I'll tell you kind of my catchphrase in case you're new to this content.
00:18:39.519 --> 00:18:44.960
Um, let go of your expectation and focus on the invitation.
00:18:45.759 --> 00:18:46.079
Okay.
00:18:46.480 --> 00:18:48.240
And then your words will come.
00:18:48.480 --> 00:18:48.960
All right.
00:18:49.279 --> 00:19:05.599
So I think it's actually more important to think about the how of those conversations and that dialogue rather than exactly the right phrasing or the right words, because what comes out of you naturally is going to be authentic and they're going to feel that.
00:19:05.839 --> 00:19:08.640
It's why I spend so much time talking about all the feelings.
00:19:08.720 --> 00:19:20.160
And, you know, this whole podcast so far is all about our feelings because this is what is so essential when I see families that have major breakthroughs and how they sit down and how they how they rewrite their nutrition stories with their kids.
00:19:20.240 --> 00:19:31.200
It's because they slowed down enough to address how they feel about feeding their kids and they let go of those old stories as the first step.
00:19:32.000 --> 00:19:37.839
Because once you let that go, it's much easier to respond instead of react.
00:19:38.079 --> 00:19:44.079
It's the difference between tell me about your lunch and ooh, tell me about your lunch.
00:19:44.960 --> 00:19:51.759
The other key is just asking questions instead of telling them your impression.
00:19:53.200 --> 00:20:00.640
You can also use the phrase I noticed if you really need to get something across, but like I noticed there's a lot left over.
00:20:00.960 --> 00:20:02.079
Did you not feel very hungry?
00:20:02.240 --> 00:20:04.319
Like you can use the I noticed statements too.
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:06.319
That's key for lots of parenting things.
00:20:06.480 --> 00:20:10.400
But the more that they have to do the thinking, the the better.
00:20:11.119 --> 00:20:12.480
Plus, the more you learn.
00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:20.640
For concrete options, if you really need that, I do like to start with closed-ended questions and then broaden it to open-ended questions, like who did you sit with at lunch today?
00:20:21.119 --> 00:20:23.519
Or what special did you have today?
00:20:24.079 --> 00:20:26.559
Or did you get enough time to eat at lunch?
00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:30.720
And then I move into the tell me about the bus ride.
00:20:30.880 --> 00:20:33.440
And is there something that you want in your lunchbox tomorrow?
00:20:33.599 --> 00:20:39.279
But again, think about the how and your tone before you focus so much on the words.
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:42.000
Because even if you get it wrong, it's okay.
00:20:42.160 --> 00:20:42.880
There's grace.
00:20:43.359 --> 00:20:44.960
You can apologize and move on.
00:20:45.119 --> 00:20:46.079
But it's from the heart.
00:20:46.160 --> 00:20:54.799
And when you ask and you have that dialogue based on what you want to know about them and your curiosity about their day, you actually get a lot more insight.
00:20:56.720 --> 00:21:03.039
Okay, now the best way I actually found to get incredible perspective came by accident.
00:21:03.200 --> 00:21:05.519
And it's actually my second point today.
00:21:05.759 --> 00:21:08.559
That is to visit them at lunch.
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:10.480
You can be a guest, okay?
00:21:10.720 --> 00:21:13.839
So, like I didn't do this as an effort to be a spy.
00:21:14.000 --> 00:21:20.319
Like it totally happened by accident, but in reflection, I learned powerful lessons that I want to share with you.
00:21:20.559 --> 00:21:27.359
It wasn't until my oldest was in about first grade and he had full day, um, uh full day school, and I had a day off.
00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:29.519
So I went and I sat down with him.
00:21:29.599 --> 00:21:30.880
I had, we'd planned it, right?
00:21:30.960 --> 00:21:34.720
So you have to like sign in and go through the paperwork to go into school, all that kind of stuff.
00:21:34.960 --> 00:21:40.799
And he knew not to bring lunch because I was gonna be bringing McDonald's, which was like a super rare occasion.
00:21:41.359 --> 00:21:43.920
And I thought he was going to be so excited about that.
00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:49.680
But what he wanted more than the McDonald's was to tell me about his friends.
00:21:49.839 --> 00:21:51.200
He wanted to introduce me to them.
00:21:51.359 --> 00:21:59.039
He wanted to show me the little Lego guy in his pocket, and he wanted me to know what he had read that morning because he was learning to read and he was really proud of that.
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:01.039
That was the highlight.
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:13.279
And if I'd realized in that moment that 10 years down the road, what he'd remember was my presence and not the McDonald's, I would have been so blown away.
00:22:13.759 --> 00:22:17.440
Because at the time that's not what I thought I was going to be getting out of it.
00:22:17.599 --> 00:22:17.839
Right.
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.480
Like it was really helpful to see that.
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:27.119
The relationship your kids build at that table are probably more important than just the nutrition that's there.
00:22:27.359 --> 00:22:28.640
And that's a win.
00:22:28.799 --> 00:22:29.119
Okay.
00:22:29.440 --> 00:22:34.319
Now, when I went to go visit him at lunch, I learned a couple of really important things.
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:45.440
Number one, I learned that it was definitely really early in the day and he probably wasn't very hungry because he had a really he's good at eating breakfast.
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:46.880
That was helpful to know.
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:56.319
I also learned that most of the kids that he was eating around were eating school lunch and throwing away probably 75% of what they were being served.
00:22:56.640 --> 00:23:02.400
I also noticed that he had made friends with some kids that I never would have pictured him with.
00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:04.880
And I was so delighted to see that.
00:23:05.039 --> 00:23:10.720
It gave me the opportunity to talk about what they liked about each other and what they were interested in doing.
00:23:10.880 --> 00:23:21.279
And it gave me opportunity to talk about something other than lunch because at that point I didn't realize this, but he and I shared no other commonality throughout the school day except for lunch.
00:23:21.440 --> 00:23:24.160
And to him that was the least important part of the day.
00:23:24.319 --> 00:23:32.240
So it gave me insight into so much more you know the names of his like lunch aids and the bus driver and the systems that he was going through.
00:23:32.319 --> 00:23:38.960
And by the way also for somebody who had you know ADHD and was really distracted, it was really noisy.
00:23:39.119 --> 00:23:43.920
Sometimes that's a very hard environment for little ones to stay focused enough to eat.
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:50.559
So there's so many factors that I took away from that experience that I wouldn't have been able to realize had I not been there.
00:23:50.960 --> 00:23:52.319
So that's my second takeaway.
00:23:52.480 --> 00:24:01.599
And in the subsequent points I am going to come back to other things that I learned from visiting my son at school but this is a good time for a break.
00:24:01.839 --> 00:24:12.000
All right hey guys quick break here if you have been enjoying this content please do me a favor and leave a rating review because it helps the show reach more parents just like you.
00:24:12.240 --> 00:24:14.640
And if you have a question or comment, reach out to me.
00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:16.880
I'd genuinely love to hear if something has helped you.
00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:28.160
The whole purpose here is to help parents navigate some of the challenges with kids' nutrition from a big picture lens because we get so stuck in the weeds and we hold ourselves back in some pretty silly ways.
00:24:28.319 --> 00:24:32.480
It sometimes just takes a little bit of that perspective to get us back on solid ground.
00:24:32.720 --> 00:24:34.079
All right welcome back.
00:24:34.319 --> 00:24:41.599
So after we get our own baggage out of the way and we go visit them at lunch, what do we actually offer our kids?
00:24:41.839 --> 00:24:42.160
Okay.
00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:44.720
And I have two major takeaways here.
00:24:44.799 --> 00:24:47.599
They're kind of intertwined but they're really valuable.
00:24:47.839 --> 00:24:56.880
So number one, the concept is simple, but it does take a little observation on your end in order to kind of personalize this for you.
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:03.039
My third point is to simplify the process so that it's not all on you.
00:25:03.200 --> 00:25:06.559
And I'll tell you about the system that worked for us.
00:25:06.960 --> 00:25:08.400
I like systems.
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:13.519
I'm not however Marie Kondo or someone who's super organized.
00:25:13.920 --> 00:25:21.920
For me the system that helped was to kind of start with this master list of options within all the main food groups.
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:28.480
So I had, you know, a grain list, a protein list, a fruit, a veggie, a dairy and this was before AI.
00:25:28.559 --> 00:25:38.240
I'm sure it's much easier now to just make your own little list of all these options but I kind of wrote down a long list of different options within each of those food groups.
00:25:38.720 --> 00:25:44.640
And I would go through that list with my kids in advance of my shopping.
00:25:44.720 --> 00:25:50.640
I typically go shopping once a week if I have to go twice okay but like I really try to get it down to once a week.
00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:58.720
And so I'd have this sort of master grocery list and they would have had to kind of pick a couple of things that they were thinking they would want the week ahead.
00:25:58.880 --> 00:26:04.079
I know kind of hard to do but I did it stick with me.
00:26:04.400 --> 00:26:08.880
And I let them choose a couple of items in each category.
00:26:09.359 --> 00:26:18.960
And then when I came back from the grocery store I would sort of separate out those things into some bins.
00:26:19.119 --> 00:26:35.519
I'd gone to the dollar store and I got different colored bins for each food group and had my kids color pictures of grain, protein, dairy, fruit and veggie because at that point in time not all of my kids were able to read.
00:26:35.599 --> 00:26:39.279
And so we needed color coded things and we needed pictures.
00:26:39.839 --> 00:26:55.279
You can go a step further and actually print out pictures of combined things if you really like we, we, you know, like a sandwich or you know a certain if you had a thermos and you wanted to put like ravioli or other things in there that's sort of like a two in one like your grain and your protein together, right?
00:26:55.440 --> 00:26:56.640
Like you can kind of do that.
00:26:56.880 --> 00:27:02.400
But for me, it was really helpful to have these separated into separate bins.
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:07.920
So I done all the thinking on the front end and then they picked what they wanted.
00:27:08.000 --> 00:27:11.920
I got home from the store they had to help me every time I go to the store still to this day they do this.
00:27:12.000 --> 00:27:15.200
They help me unload my groceries and so they learned where everything goes in the pantry.
00:27:15.359 --> 00:27:36.160
But we would separate those things out into the bins because before this I learned pretty quickly that if I did a big haul on a Sunday by the time Thursday rolls around there's like nothing left in the fridge or the pantry because the kids would somehow eat all of their school lunch stuff for snacks after school or for you know on the weekends or things like that.
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:37.599
And so it would just disappear.
00:27:37.839 --> 00:27:42.799
And being on a tight budget that I was, I really needed to pre-portion stuff out.
00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:54.000
So I would actually take the things that were really and I did the do this for everything, but like for my cucumbers and my carrots or fruits or things like that, I would sort of cut them up on a Sunday and individually bag them in the fridge.
00:27:54.079 --> 00:27:57.680
So they were in the fridge had its own little drawer for veggies and our dairy.
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:08.799
And then we had um you know some of the respective like your pretzels or popcorn or things like that would be sort of in their own bags in the lunch boxes depending on that food category.
00:28:09.119 --> 00:28:20.319
And so what was really nice is that when they'd wake up in the morning after we got into this rhythm, they would take their lunchbox and they knew that they had to get something from or I asked them to get something from each bin.
00:28:20.559 --> 00:28:28.640
And so their lunchbox had a fruit, a grain, a dairy, you know, had all the components and I know that sounds like a ton of work but hear me out.
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:34.880
It actually was really easy because they they were involved in that whole process.
00:28:35.200 --> 00:28:42.400
And the cool part here is that it actually helped us learn like those buckets were for lunch only.
00:28:42.640 --> 00:28:47.279
So when they weren't out and available like they didn't get accessed.
00:28:47.359 --> 00:28:57.119
And so they made it through the whole week and it really helped me understand too that like they really were capable of making their lunch from an even very early age.
00:28:57.359 --> 00:29:02.079
And it took a lot of pressure off of me right like they got to pick what was there.
00:29:02.240 --> 00:29:06.480
They got to be involved in the process and if they didn't love it then that's okay.
00:29:06.640 --> 00:29:10.720
Like it still was at least provided right and it did a couple of awesome things.
00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:21.519
It helped them of course get autonomy in choosing some options and it also taught them that a lunch or a balanced meal actually had multiple components that go together.
00:29:21.839 --> 00:29:33.599
And that was really kind of not an intentional part of the process but it actually was a big takeaway and now like it's just so part of building their plate that they recognize oh yeah, this is what we do.
00:29:33.680 --> 00:29:46.559
This is what a meal looks like right and the best part for me was that it meant I had done my job, which was to be responsible for providing the food and offering some structure.
00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:50.400
But that if they didn't eat it, it wasn't on me, right?
00:29:50.559 --> 00:29:52.160
Like it wasn't my fault.
00:29:52.400 --> 00:29:56.319
And taking that mental load off of me was such a relief.
00:29:56.480 --> 00:30:00.880
I knew okay, I did my part and then they get to do theirs.
00:30:01.039 --> 00:30:10.960
And it helped me feel like I could kind of focus on what my task was because there's sort of a saying that you know whatever jobs you do for your kids, you'll continue to do for them.
00:30:11.200 --> 00:30:15.680
And so you have to let them get that experience and that practice.
00:30:15.920 --> 00:30:28.240
And this sort of leads me to the other thing I learned while visiting my boys for lunch and that's really my fourth point today which is how much kids eat at lunch is wildly different.
00:30:28.480 --> 00:30:28.799
Okay.
00:30:29.440 --> 00:30:35.759
And what we serve our kids for school lunch may not actually be the serving size that's really right for them.
00:30:36.240 --> 00:30:46.640
And at that point in time like I I think I knew that sort of in my mind, but I I didn't really like see it in effect until I went to go visit him.
00:30:47.440 --> 00:30:48.400
Here's what I mean.
00:30:48.559 --> 00:31:02.960
When I noticed what other kids were eating what sort of serving sizes were in their lunchboxes versus mine, it was like this kind of impressive opportunity to recognize that like we are all so very different.
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:22.880
And in the same way, like I don't say that to judge I just say that because like you know you you know that in your own head but like you only know your own experience right and as a pediatrician I spend a lot of time talking with my patients about the growth curve and I get to care for kids across that spectrum and even across like our our size spectrum.
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:28.000
So like I have kids who are the second percentile and have always been that way.
00:31:28.240 --> 00:31:32.400
And I have kids who are the 95th percentile and have always been that way.
00:31:32.640 --> 00:31:36.240
And both of those kids can be perfectly healthy.
00:31:37.039 --> 00:31:50.559
It's it's really about understanding that that difference isn't necessarily problematic, but that difference means that our portions are going to start to vary a little bit more as we mature.
00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:57.759
And I like to highlight this not because there's one that's right and one that's wrong, but because we have different belly sizes and we need different amounts of food.
00:31:58.000 --> 00:32:23.599
And so when we're preparing our kids meal for lunch, it's really kind of our first time to learn what they eat in that span of time as their day is different and understand too like I recall another time I went to go visit a different kid at his at his different school I think it's like second, third grade and um and it was I was keenly aware that like as I was sitting at the table there were some lunch boxes filled to the brim, some that didn't have a whole lot in there.
00:32:23.839 --> 00:32:30.799
And you know like it was just a good reminder that we all have different needs.
00:32:31.119 --> 00:32:38.480
And we also at that age start to eat for pleasure too right like I mentioned some of those hyperpalatable foods.
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:49.599
Well sometimes our kids are going to eat all of those things because they taste really good not necessarily because we're listening to those hunger cues and listening to just what our bodies tell us.
00:32:49.839 --> 00:32:55.680
And the older a kid gets the harder it can become to listen to those signals if we're not really attuned to them.
00:32:56.160 --> 00:33:02.079
So when a kid comes home with like an empty lunchbox, it doesn't necessarily mean that you need to pack more.
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:08.000
It might actually mean that either they dumped half of it in the trash or they ate everything because it just tasted really, really good.
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:19.200
So for our little ones who are like four and under, I do like to think of kind of a serving size as being about the size of their palm per like food group.
00:33:19.359 --> 00:33:22.799
So you know like how much pretzels what could fit in their hand, right?
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:24.880
Like in berries and like an ounce of meat.
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:35.920
I'm going to get into a couple of the specifics here in just a second on some of those serving sizes but understand as kids get older, the spread of what one kid needs versus another kid needs are going to widen more and more.
00:33:36.319 --> 00:33:48.640
And the the hard part here too is that like and we'll talk about this next week as the as we talk about the um school lunches but the USDA portions are very calculated and very specific.
00:33:48.720 --> 00:34:00.079
So they have a very specific serving size that have to be given because they're meeting 98% of kids' needs you know at a certain time like they're they're matching certain metrics.
00:34:00.319 --> 00:34:02.319
But that might not be what's right for you.
00:34:02.720 --> 00:34:19.360
In fact, like here's an example if you think about a bag of chips or a bag of pirate's booty or things like that, servings of pudding or little Debbie snacks, processed lunch, that kind of stuff, those pre-packaged servings are honestly more than a lot of little kids needs.
00:34:19.679 --> 00:34:26.559
And because they taste so good, I would argue that it can actually displace some of the calories they need from the other food.
00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:33.119
So the trick here isn't that you don't offer foods that they like it's that you don't have to give them the whole bag.
00:34:33.760 --> 00:34:40.159
In fact like this awareness came to us after my husband and I got into a really big fight a few years ago.
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:43.920
And in this case he won, I'm sorry to say.
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:46.639
But it wasn't because we were fighting about food.
00:34:46.719 --> 00:34:56.159
It was actually because he was so frustrated with the amount of plastic wrappers and garbage produced by having three kids in school all packing their lunch.
00:34:56.719 --> 00:35:01.280
So we decided to switch to family size packages for some things.
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:20.639
And lo and behold when we prepped our food for the week we learned that our kids actually adjusted the amount that they needed and we helped them with that too but it meant not only less waste for us all, but I didn't feel so bad when we bought a big bag of chips because it actually lasted longer which ended up meaning less waste for us all.
00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:38.400
I do let my kids eat chips however okay but I found that if I give them the whole bag of chips some dried fruit a sandwich baby carrots that's like just too much for my little one right so like my seven year old would come home and everything would be left in lunchbox except for that bag of chips.
00:35:38.559 --> 00:35:47.440
And he may have eaten enough calories to get him through the day, but it wasn't necessarily in the proportion of other macronutrients that really gave him the best energy.
00:35:47.679 --> 00:35:57.440
So when we switched over to you know portioning out our own serving sizes it actually enabled him to not only get some of the chips he really enjoyed, but he ate other things.
00:35:57.679 --> 00:36:00.559
And that was a much better option for us all.
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:09.760
I know wild but like this is just an example of how we provided some structure without having to be controlling.
00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:18.639
And that enabled us to practice what moderation can look like because you know kids really don't instinctively know how to do that at this age.
00:36:18.719 --> 00:36:21.119
They do need scaffolding with these skills.
00:36:21.360 --> 00:36:24.159
And this was just really important, right?
00:36:24.719 --> 00:36:59.599
And when we have these conversations with them, it's it's important to understand that teaching body awareness and interoception skills of understanding how we feel, what makes us feel satiated versus really full are conversations that take time and they take practice with so if our goal is to understand how what we eat makes us feel, I want you to know that for a lot of kids that really takes about till nearly 10 for a lot of kids to understand those kinds of cause and effect.
00:36:59.760 --> 00:37:06.880
And so being careful about the portions that we offer little kids is a pretty delicate area.
00:37:07.119 --> 00:37:15.440
And you do have to give a little bit more awareness to that because sometimes it's not always really dialed in.
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:20.559
And this is kind of tricky because I think the word hunger can mean a lot of different things to little kids.
00:37:20.800 --> 00:37:31.119
And so I think there's so much nuance in in where I'm heading with this but hear me when I say that the portion size is something that you can experiment with.
00:37:31.599 --> 00:37:35.039
I am not advocating that we let our kids be hungry at lunchtime.
00:37:35.199 --> 00:37:49.519
I'm simply offering that what we get in the store with our portion sizes and our serving sizes may not be really attuned to your child and you can with freedom adjust that.
00:37:49.840 --> 00:37:50.159
Right.
00:37:50.480 --> 00:37:58.960
And so understand that like it may also be helpful to think about using words other than hunger.
00:37:59.360 --> 00:38:11.519
Sometimes kids say I'm hungry from very early on and realize that they can get attention when they ask for food or they can say I'm hungry and that gets them a cookie that they wouldn't ordinarily get or something different.
00:38:11.679 --> 00:38:13.599
And I and they're really smart.
00:38:13.679 --> 00:38:14.639
They're really creative.
00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:15.840
And that's not a bad thing.
00:38:15.920 --> 00:38:20.400
It's just it's okay to sort of adjust what you're noticing.
00:38:20.559 --> 00:38:27.599
In fact, you know, I don't know if you're aware of this or not but like restaurants and cafeterias actually do something very objective to understand this really well.
00:38:27.760 --> 00:38:30.320
And it's called plate waste analysis.
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:43.199
They actually measure how much gets thrown away and how much um and they do this by adjusting serving sizes, portions and they and they use that to help forecast their menus because they don't want to pay for food that they're going to throw away right like they need to be able to make a profit somehow.
00:38:43.360 --> 00:38:46.559
And so if they're throwing it all away, then that doesn't get them where they need to go.
00:38:46.719 --> 00:38:59.679
And so you have the same opportunity every single time your kid's lunchbox comes home instead of like just asking them about why they didn't eat something you can simply look at it and like think about what they needed, right?
00:38:59.840 --> 00:39:11.599
So like if your lunchbox keeps coming back barely touched, try on the next meal packing the same variety but with half of the serving sizes on each of those things and just see what happens.
00:39:11.840 --> 00:39:14.400
And if that hurts your heart to do that, then that's okay.
00:39:14.480 --> 00:39:21.760
You can consider putting the other half of the lunch in their backpack for the bus ride home or for you know, you know, if they get really hungry they can get to it.
00:39:21.920 --> 00:39:26.159
So they have access to it, but it's not necessarily in the actual lunch box itself.
00:39:26.320 --> 00:39:30.960
Sometimes it can put a lot of pressure on a kid to just be served a portion that's way more than what they need.
00:39:31.519 --> 00:39:44.000
All right so for a couple of concrete things just for those of you who have stuck around you might be surprised to hear this but actually a half of a sandwich or even a quarter of a sandwich maybe all your little one really needs for that part of it.
00:39:44.159 --> 00:39:49.519
And then you know a handful of popcorn their handful size of popcorn might be enough.
00:39:50.239 --> 00:39:57.599
You might want to do some pretzels but you might think about just maybe what's on the serving size like half of that or even a third of that.
00:39:57.840 --> 00:40:08.079
When it comes to um muffins I typically recommend doing mini muffins in lunch boxes for little ones as opposed to a big regular muffin if you happen to do breakfast for lunch.
00:40:08.400 --> 00:40:21.199
You might think about just like an ounce of meat turkey or if you have um some salami or some types of lunches lunch meat that you like to serve a single egg is plenty if you do hard boiled eggs.
00:40:21.360 --> 00:40:27.840
A tablespoon or two of peanut butter so the protein balls that I have alluded to a couple times on my Instagram page are also pretty small.
00:40:27.920 --> 00:40:32.079
And so they're about a tablespoon and a half in terms of like their actual serving size.
00:40:32.320 --> 00:40:38.639
Half of an apple right a small clementine about seven to ten grapes is probably enough.
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:47.440
It doesn't take a lot for our little ones and you might just give that a shot and see how it goes before you send a whole lot extra there.
00:40:47.760 --> 00:40:52.159
Now as we wrap up I just want to say thank you again for listening all the way to the end.
00:40:52.320 --> 00:41:02.719
And you know if your kid's a packer and you really want to support them in eating healthy and helping build that kind of lifelong healthy eater then please don't take their behavior personally.
00:41:02.880 --> 00:41:07.840
It's not a reflection on your parenting and it doesn't mean they'll eat junk food for the rest of their life, right?
00:41:08.000 --> 00:41:17.599
They are getting the chance to experience new things, eat with friends and there's so many factors influencing what they eat that has nothing to do with you.
00:41:18.000 --> 00:41:19.519
So look at the big picture.
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:27.039
Make a system that offers structure so that you don't have to do all of the thinking and offers them age appropriate autonomy.
00:41:27.199 --> 00:41:33.840
And if you get a chance go be a fly in the wall at one of their school lunches or be a guest and go and meet them for lunch.
00:41:34.000 --> 00:41:36.320
It is genuinely so informative.
00:41:36.960 --> 00:41:42.880
And don't be afraid to play around with the portion sizes because you might be offering way more than they actually need.
00:41:42.960 --> 00:41:45.280
And that feedback is actually a gift.
00:41:45.440 --> 00:41:47.360
Okay now thank you again.
00:41:47.519 --> 00:41:50.639
I'd love to hear what's working for you in the lunchbox department.
00:41:50.800 --> 00:41:54.639
So send me a note just like a little lunchbox note from you to me.
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:56.320
I'd love to know what's going well.
00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:58.639
And if something's been challenging reach out.
00:41:58.800 --> 00:42:00.239
I'm excited to hear from you.
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:06.480
So I hope you join me next week as we talk about school based lunches and all the fun that comes with that territory.
00:42:06.639 --> 00:42:08.960
Thanks so much guys I'll see you next week
