Michael Stewart

WEBVTT
1
00:00:04.080 --> 00:00:07.059
Welcome to another episode of Not Another Football Podcast with myself,
2
00:00:07.099 --> 00:00:07.759
Simon Donnelly.
3
00:00:08.080 --> 00:00:08.939
And Jackie McNamara.
4
00:00:09.160 --> 00:00:11.519
And we're delighted our next guest is none other than
5
00:00:11.599 --> 00:00:13.490
Michael Stewart. How are you, sir?
6
00:00:13.589 --> 00:00:17.570
Good, thank you. Good, yep. Busy? Yeah, aye, aye. Busy enough.
7
00:00:17.670 --> 00:00:19.550
Back doing the punditry? Have you ever been banned from
8
00:00:19.570 --> 00:00:20.609
anybody this season yet?
9
00:00:20.629 --> 00:00:26.460
Not recently, no. Still trying to rectify things. What seriousness
10
00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:33.159
has that sorted? Not yet, not yet. Hopefully it will
11
00:00:33.179 --> 00:00:36.880
get sorted soon. Wheels are in motion.
12
00:00:37.619 --> 00:00:39.969
Is this for criticising the referees in general?
13
00:00:41.909 --> 00:00:42.390
I think so.
14
00:00:43.789 --> 00:00:48.270
I don't really... Speak your mind. I don't really.
15
00:00:48.289 --> 00:00:51.909
I couldn't really tell you the specifics because I don't
16
00:00:51.969 --> 00:00:56.070
really know. So I'm at a hazard, I guess, you know,
17
00:00:56.649 --> 00:00:59.409
I think, yeah, that's basically the gist of it, Jackie.
18
00:00:59.450 --> 00:01:02.659
You've got to tell everybody that they're brilliant and they're
19
00:01:02.679 --> 00:01:04.480
not making a mistake.
20
00:01:04.519 --> 00:01:06.400
I thought you dealt with it well at the end
21
00:01:06.579 --> 00:01:09.359
of the season, but you and the van outside.
22
00:01:10.900 --> 00:01:15.000
That was the semi-final, wasn't it? You couldn't get in
23
00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:15.500
on the final.
24
00:01:16.379 --> 00:01:18.530
No, it was the next day, the next semi. Oh,
25
00:01:18.549 --> 00:01:21.129
so it was. Aye, the next day, yeah, it was...
26
00:01:22.079 --> 00:01:24.260
I don't think it went down too well within the
27
00:01:24.319 --> 00:01:27.750
corridors of Hampden, but I think everywhere else it was, yeah,
28
00:01:28.269 --> 00:01:30.390
it was... Taking it good. Aye, aye, yeah.
29
00:01:30.870 --> 00:01:33.989
Right, we'll touch on your pundity. Let's start off maybe
30
00:01:34.010 --> 00:01:37.769
with an easier subject, your football career. Take you back
31
00:01:37.810 --> 00:01:42.019
to the start. Can you talk us through how you
32
00:01:42.060 --> 00:01:45.079
got it, like some Man United in the late 90s? Aye.
33
00:01:45.260 --> 00:01:49.340
What were your first steps? So, I mean... I would
34
00:01:49.400 --> 00:01:52.450
imagine it would be very much in the same similar
35
00:01:53.030 --> 00:01:56.250
vein for you guys with you know just playing school
36
00:01:56.269 --> 00:02:01.450
football club football you've got scouts at all these all
37
00:02:01.469 --> 00:02:03.609
these games and you know what it's like football's a
38
00:02:03.629 --> 00:02:08.210
small world so people you know talk and at that
39
00:02:08.629 --> 00:02:11.789
age prior to going down to Man United I'd you
40
00:02:11.810 --> 00:02:13.860
know I'd been round all the sort of Scottish clubs
41
00:02:13.879 --> 00:02:17.479
and again you know the same sort of everything's changed
42
00:02:17.500 --> 00:02:20.620
since You guys are a wee bit older than me.
43
00:02:20.659 --> 00:02:25.800
But it was that stage where there wasn't any professional
44
00:02:26.060 --> 00:02:29.780
clubs in the youth football. You'd go and train with them.
45
00:02:30.699 --> 00:02:33.490
So it was exactly the same. I'd been and trained
46
00:02:33.530 --> 00:02:38.310
with all the Scottish clubs and then you quickly narrow
47
00:02:38.349 --> 00:02:40.370
it down to ones that you enjoy the training and
48
00:02:40.530 --> 00:02:45.819
things like that. And then when I was 11... I
49
00:02:45.860 --> 00:02:48.159
went down to Spurs for the first time. They'd had, like,
50
00:02:48.400 --> 00:02:52.349
a big game at Cathigan Park, old Third Lanark's ground,
51
00:02:52.669 --> 00:02:56.889
through in Glasgow. There was a game of... The Scouts
52
00:02:56.930 --> 00:03:01.129
must have pulled together a group of Scottish players to
53
00:03:01.150 --> 00:03:05.590
go and play against each other. And then there was
54
00:03:05.620 --> 00:03:07.840
a few... I didn't go down with anyone, but I
55
00:03:07.860 --> 00:03:09.319
think there was a few of us who'd been asked
56
00:03:09.340 --> 00:03:14.979
to go down to Spurs. I went down and... I
57
00:03:15.000 --> 00:03:20.460
fucking hated it it was staying in digs where like
58
00:03:20.939 --> 00:03:23.550
you know I was 11 probably just turning 12 maybe
59
00:03:23.849 --> 00:03:26.530
staying with like youth team players who were like 16
60
00:03:26.530 --> 00:03:29.629
so I went to get on the public bus in
61
00:03:29.710 --> 00:03:33.050
London to get to White Hart Lane to jump on
62
00:03:33.090 --> 00:03:35.270
a coach to go to the training ground and then
63
00:03:35.289 --> 00:03:37.469
I was training with the youth team and you know
64
00:03:37.490 --> 00:03:40.439
at that age that gap of like 4-5 years is
65
00:03:40.479 --> 00:03:45.409
huge so like you know I'm on my tod you're like,
66
00:03:45.710 --> 00:03:48.330
you know, lingering about. The youth team boys... How long
67
00:03:48.349 --> 00:03:50.370
were you down for this period? It was the school holidays,
68
00:03:50.389 --> 00:03:52.169
so I'd been down for like a week, maybe, you know.
69
00:03:52.590 --> 00:03:56.250
And you just feel like a complete add-on. You've got
70
00:03:56.289 --> 00:03:58.780
nobody really to, like, you know, hang about with. You're
71
00:03:58.789 --> 00:04:00.990
at the training ground and you're just like, this is...
72
00:04:01.340 --> 00:04:04.120
So I really didn't enjoy it at all. And then
73
00:04:04.139 --> 00:04:06.580
I went down to, you know, a few other clubs
74
00:04:06.599 --> 00:04:09.460
that was... But, you know, obviously going down to the
75
00:04:09.500 --> 00:04:11.659
English clubs, it's only school holidays you can go, so
76
00:04:11.740 --> 00:04:14.759
you're limited. Mm-hm. I ended up going to West Ham
77
00:04:14.800 --> 00:04:20.560
at one point, which was enjoyable. I liked that. Blackburn, Newcastle, Chelsea.
78
00:04:20.620 --> 00:04:24.029
And then at 12 years old, I got asked to
79
00:04:24.050 --> 00:04:26.509
go down to Man United. And that just came about
80
00:04:26.790 --> 00:04:30.769
because they had a network of scouts everywhere. They had
81
00:04:30.910 --> 00:04:31.850
a scout in the.
82
00:04:31.949 --> 00:04:33.990
So who was your team up here at that time?
83
00:04:34.029 --> 00:04:37.389
So at that time, I'd have been playing for either
84
00:04:38.470 --> 00:04:43.680
Liberton or... Everyone at Liberton had moved over to Tyne Castle.
85
00:04:43.759 --> 00:04:47.899
I eventually ended up playing with Hutchie. But at that time,
86
00:04:47.939 --> 00:04:50.560
I probably would have been... I'd started out with my
87
00:04:50.699 --> 00:04:55.180
local boys club, Tall Oaks, who were basically just in Crestorfin.
88
00:04:55.199 --> 00:04:57.660
That was just the same thing as everybody would be.
89
00:04:57.699 --> 00:05:00.430
It's just your local club with all your mates. And
90
00:05:00.459 --> 00:05:04.269
then I moved to Liberton, who were the best team
91
00:05:04.329 --> 00:05:07.209
at that age. But the biggest thing, from my parents' perspective,
92
00:05:07.230 --> 00:05:11.509
was that the coaches were really good. and I've got
93
00:05:11.529 --> 00:05:13.629
to give them a lot of credit because obviously when
94
00:05:13.649 --> 00:05:15.600
you're a wee man you don't even think about that
95
00:05:15.939 --> 00:05:20.120
but I think they recognised the importance of good coaches
96
00:05:21.000 --> 00:05:24.250
so I'd moved to them and then everybody for Liberty
97
00:05:24.259 --> 00:05:25.670
and I don't know why, I don't know what the
98
00:05:25.730 --> 00:05:29.129
issue or the story was but they all went to tiny,
99
00:05:29.410 --> 00:05:33.129
the coaches the whole team so I was probably either
100
00:05:33.189 --> 00:05:35.149
one of them when I went down to United for
101
00:05:35.170 --> 00:05:35.889
the first time.
102
00:05:36.569 --> 00:05:37.000
And it was a.
103
00:05:38.949 --> 00:05:42.060
Scout in the east of Scotland, Andy Pirrie, and there
104
00:05:42.069 --> 00:05:44.420
was a scout in the west, Jimmy Dickey. You may
105
00:05:44.459 --> 00:05:45.519
well know these boys.
106
00:05:45.759 --> 00:05:45.860
Aye.
107
00:05:46.240 --> 00:05:50.050
I actually went down a year, I was 13 and 14,
108
00:05:50.050 --> 00:05:53.970
right when I went down to Madden. My era was the,
109
00:05:53.970 --> 00:05:55.189
92 team.
110
00:05:55.370 --> 00:05:56.089
Right, aye.
111
00:05:56.110 --> 00:05:58.529
So it was seven years for Scotland. Aye. So the
112
00:05:58.550 --> 00:06:00.110
same experience. It was the guys that picked it through.
113
00:06:00.129 --> 00:06:00.370
Aye.
114
00:06:00.730 --> 00:06:02.689
I went down two years, I didn't get the third
115
00:06:02.730 --> 00:06:03.089
year done.
116
00:06:03.370 --> 00:06:03.589
Right.
117
00:06:03.709 --> 00:06:04.750
The other ones they signed for me.
118
00:06:04.750 --> 00:06:06.779
So you just went down to the school holidays as well?
119
00:06:07.259 --> 00:06:10.220
Aye. We stayed in Halls of Residence.
120
00:06:10.420 --> 00:06:11.660
Oh, did you stay in Halls of Residence, right?
121
00:06:11.899 --> 00:06:14.660
And then we trained at the club.
122
00:06:14.699 --> 00:06:17.740
Just around the corner from the cliff there was Littleton Road,
123
00:06:18.100 --> 00:06:20.180
which was like more, there was more pitches there.
124
00:06:20.779 --> 00:06:27.839
It was Sir Alex and Archie would have been there.
125
00:06:27.860 --> 00:06:31.600
The boys from Seventh Year Scotland, you had the ones
126
00:06:31.680 --> 00:06:37.319
from England, Ireland, Wales, but that was in 92. The
127
00:06:37.339 --> 00:06:43.540
only one from that group, Gary Locke was down, Alan Johnson.
128
00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:45.000
Colin McKee.
129
00:06:45.420 --> 00:06:45.620
Yeah.
130
00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:47.839
Tommy Harrison. Yeah.
131
00:06:48.339 --> 00:06:51.079
And Tommy, what did they sign? Tommy was in their house.
132
00:06:51.319 --> 00:06:51.939
He stayed in their house.
133
00:06:51.959 --> 00:06:53.339
Colin McKee signed.
134
00:06:53.360 --> 00:06:54.860
Was there a group of yous down at that time?
135
00:06:54.879 --> 00:06:59.819
So there was, aye, there was a lad from through
136
00:06:59.839 --> 00:07:03.560
the west who became my, like, roommate when we were
137
00:07:03.579 --> 00:07:07.019
in digs, a guy called Stephen Cosgrove, Cosy, who, big
138
00:07:07.040 --> 00:07:10.949
Celtic man, he ended up going back up to to
139
00:07:11.009 --> 00:07:14.129
Motherwell unfortunately it was just when they went into administration
140
00:07:15.509 --> 00:07:18.500
and then obviously you'd get sort of different ages as
141
00:07:18.540 --> 00:07:23.420
well so latterly Fletch would come down John Rankin was
142
00:07:24.079 --> 00:07:26.120
you know would be down as well so there wasn't
143
00:07:26.199 --> 00:07:27.779
as many as like seven of us were going down
144
00:07:27.839 --> 00:07:31.269
but there was like across the spread in different age
145
00:07:31.310 --> 00:07:33.509
groups there was maybe four or five that would go
146
00:07:33.550 --> 00:07:36.209
down but it was brilliant like you know what you're
147
00:07:36.230 --> 00:07:39.069
describing there you then the difference I'm trying to you
148
00:07:39.089 --> 00:07:41.769
know Gave the example of contrasting it with what we
149
00:07:41.810 --> 00:07:45.019
experienced at Spurs, which was just like... And then you
150
00:07:45.040 --> 00:07:47.040
go down to United and you've got all your peers.
151
00:07:47.160 --> 00:07:51.620
So you've got guys from all over Ireland and Wales
152
00:07:51.660 --> 00:07:54.279
and Scotland and England. And then there's folk from the
153
00:07:54.360 --> 00:07:57.819
continent as well. Maybe a couple that they've scouted. So
154
00:07:57.839 --> 00:07:59.850
you're playing amongst each other. So there's that wee bit
155
00:07:59.870 --> 00:08:03.129
of competition as well where you're wanting to show. But
156
00:08:03.350 --> 00:08:08.250
it was brilliant because we used to stay... It was
157
00:08:08.269 --> 00:08:11.970
the Castlefield Hotel, not the Copthorn. And it had a
158
00:08:12.050 --> 00:08:14.089
big indoor hall at the side of it. So you're
159
00:08:14.110 --> 00:08:16.370
just being mucking about at the end of the night
160
00:08:16.410 --> 00:08:18.689
as well. So it just felt like a big holiday.
161
00:08:18.810 --> 00:08:21.670
It became like your mates. Because you got to know
162
00:08:21.689 --> 00:08:25.089
each other after a few times. And the first time
163
00:08:25.110 --> 00:08:29.639
we went down around Lyttelton Road, the gaffers stand and
164
00:08:29.839 --> 00:08:31.610
watch him. That's what I was about to say. He's
165
00:08:31.629 --> 00:08:34.169
standing watching. Unbelievable.
166
00:08:34.210 --> 00:08:34.649
Hands on.
167
00:08:34.909 --> 00:08:38.539
That just is not, like, again, like, we've beaten the game,
168
00:08:38.659 --> 00:08:41.039
you know, you get to first team level, that's not normal,
169
00:08:41.080 --> 00:08:43.340
you know, and you're talking about the biggest club about,
170
00:08:43.899 --> 00:08:47.600
and he's standing watching, like, 12-year-olds playing football, chatting to
171
00:08:47.620 --> 00:08:50.090
the scouts, you know, finding everyone out, coming over and
172
00:08:50.120 --> 00:08:52.389
speaking to you afterwards, and you're just sort of like,
173
00:08:52.909 --> 00:08:56.629
oh my word, just making you feel like 10 foot tall.
174
00:08:57.110 --> 00:08:59.690
And then, thankfully, just, you know, doing well enough that,
175
00:08:59.830 --> 00:09:02.820
you know, keep getting asked to come back down. And
176
00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:04.919
then quite quickly, you sort of get a feel for,
177
00:09:05.679 --> 00:09:12.320
I think, there'll probably be an offer to join for school.
178
00:09:12.559 --> 00:09:17.299
And then, yeah, there was early enough. I had a chance,
179
00:09:17.320 --> 00:09:21.710
I think, when I was probably about 13, Hearts had
180
00:09:22.230 --> 00:09:25.809
wanted me to sign S forms. And I just remember
181
00:09:25.870 --> 00:09:29.049
being in there and my dad was just like, you're
182
00:09:29.090 --> 00:09:31.110
not signing. And I was just like, why? Like, why?
183
00:09:31.350 --> 00:09:33.690
You know, and he was like, he went, S form's just,
184
00:09:34.210 --> 00:09:37.539
it's ridiculous. He was like, they've got no obligation to like,
185
00:09:37.659 --> 00:09:40.220
do anything for you. As soon as you finish school,
186
00:09:40.580 --> 00:09:42.500
they don't need to keep you. And he was like,
187
00:09:42.559 --> 00:09:45.299
if you do well enough, they'll still want you. He said,
188
00:09:45.360 --> 00:09:47.990
so all that does is basically the benefit of the club.
189
00:09:48.279 --> 00:09:52.269
He says, it doesn't benefit you at all. So again,
190
00:09:52.450 --> 00:09:55.590
you know, good advice for, you know, folks, because otherwise,
191
00:09:56.149 --> 00:09:58.289
and he was like, you just think, he was like,
192
00:09:58.330 --> 00:10:01.049
sort of, He was like, you've got, three or four
193
00:10:01.090 --> 00:10:04.649
years until you finish school it's nothing and he was
194
00:10:04.669 --> 00:10:07.370
like in that three or four years you continue to
195
00:10:07.409 --> 00:10:10.700
do well offers will be there from all the clubs
196
00:10:11.200 --> 00:10:14.529
so there's no point pinning yourself down to one club
197
00:10:15.419 --> 00:10:19.090
and then once it got can't remember exactly but it
198
00:10:19.110 --> 00:10:21.090
was obvious at that point you know I'd been going
199
00:10:21.110 --> 00:10:23.610
for so long and I knew that in my sort
200
00:10:23.629 --> 00:10:25.850
of mind that it was the best place to go
201
00:10:25.870 --> 00:10:28.389
because it was like everything like we just explained it
202
00:10:28.409 --> 00:10:31.129
was the most enjoyable it was the best coaches it
203
00:10:31.149 --> 00:10:34.409
was the best like club for actual genuine like getting
204
00:10:34.429 --> 00:10:37.350
an opportunity because that's what the gaffer was doing.
205
00:10:37.210 --> 00:10:39.649
Yeah yeah looking at the Man United team at that
206
00:10:39.690 --> 00:10:41.039
time as well all the youth that came.
207
00:10:40.909 --> 00:10:44.460
Through of that exactly so like you know obviously when
208
00:10:44.509 --> 00:10:51.950
I when I was going down in 98 97, 98
209
00:10:51.950 --> 00:10:56.590
when I had finished school and I went down. I
210
00:10:56.610 --> 00:11:01.090
would have been 97. So a lot of your age
211
00:11:01.110 --> 00:11:03.190
group you're talking about there, they were on the cusp
212
00:11:03.210 --> 00:11:05.850
of coming through, so it wasn't that they were established
213
00:11:05.950 --> 00:11:10.950
full blown. They were there. But you could already see
214
00:11:11.210 --> 00:11:14.549
prior to that that that's what the gaffer was doing,
215
00:11:14.629 --> 00:11:17.129
you know? And the difference with United to everywhere else
216
00:11:17.149 --> 00:11:19.090
as well is you'd go into the training ground and
217
00:11:19.190 --> 00:11:24.070
everybody spoke to everybody. Nothing was like sectioned off. It
218
00:11:24.090 --> 00:11:25.889
wasn't like the youth team there and the reserves there
219
00:11:25.909 --> 00:11:27.529
and the first team over there. It was like school
220
00:11:27.549 --> 00:11:30.350
boys chatting to reserves, first team chatting to youth team.
221
00:11:31.230 --> 00:11:32.509
And a lot of it was due to the fact
222
00:11:32.549 --> 00:11:34.289
that the manager had created that.
223
00:11:34.409 --> 00:11:36.370
I think that's a great point because just as you're
224
00:11:36.389 --> 00:11:38.720
talking about, I remember when I first went into Celtic,
225
00:11:38.769 --> 00:11:41.500
it was similar. You had your reserves, you're under 18,
226
00:11:41.500 --> 00:11:44.879
your reserves in your first team, but there was... you
227
00:11:44.919 --> 00:11:47.519
were mingling. You were mingling. You were sometimes, if you
228
00:11:47.570 --> 00:11:50.549
were to the reserves, some of them were with you.
229
00:11:50.970 --> 00:11:52.830
You were always aspiring to try and get into that
230
00:11:53.129 --> 00:11:56.669
first team shake-up, but you felt part of it. Whereas nowadays,
231
00:11:57.669 --> 00:11:59.470
I don't think, the youths might not even be training
232
00:11:59.529 --> 00:12:02.230
in the same hemisphere as the first team. You know,
233
00:12:02.269 --> 00:12:05.669
different places. I know Celtic, Barrowfield and different things like that.
234
00:12:05.690 --> 00:12:06.990
So that was a big thing for you.
235
00:12:07.009 --> 00:12:10.289
Aye. But, you know, it becomes a bigger thing, I think,
236
00:12:10.370 --> 00:12:11.049
when you get older.
237
00:12:11.070 --> 00:12:12.870
You're watching pros and how they deal with it day
238
00:12:12.909 --> 00:12:13.070
to day.
239
00:12:13.090 --> 00:12:14.799
Yeah, totally. Do you know what I mean in terms
240
00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:16.899
of you're aware of it more when you're older and
241
00:12:16.919 --> 00:12:19.360
you're like, because at that time you've got nothing, you've
242
00:12:19.379 --> 00:12:21.539
got no experience, you don't know how to, but it
243
00:12:21.580 --> 00:12:23.899
feels good. You know, I think you sort of get
244
00:12:23.919 --> 00:12:24.740
a feeling for.
245
00:12:26.110 --> 00:12:26.289
It.
246
00:12:27.169 --> 00:12:30.230
But there's also like a huge respect. It's not like,
247
00:12:30.309 --> 00:12:32.570
you know, you're not like mucking about and, you know,
248
00:12:32.649 --> 00:12:34.610
taking the piss or anything like that. It's just a
249
00:12:34.870 --> 00:12:37.789
feeling of like, of course you respect. I think you
250
00:12:37.830 --> 00:12:40.440
said it there. like that aspiration of like, that's where
251
00:12:40.460 --> 00:12:43.059
I want to get to, but it doesn't feel unattainable,
252
00:12:43.080 --> 00:12:45.480
because it's like, well, that's Jimmy, I know Jimmy, and
253
00:12:45.879 --> 00:12:49.559
that's so-and-so, they're good guys, you get a sense, well,
254
00:12:49.580 --> 00:12:53.580
they're just like me, you know, which definitely was, it
255
00:12:53.960 --> 00:12:57.960
was definitely a positive, and I don't know whether it's just,
256
00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:00.440
you know, a sign of the times as well, that
257
00:13:01.399 --> 00:13:04.259
I'm not sure, because I think we would all recognise
258
00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:08.389
and feel that nowadays, that they're definitely that sort of,
259
00:13:10.820 --> 00:13:13.379
rights of passage or you know sort of path of
260
00:13:13.460 --> 00:13:16.899
getting to there like in one hand we're talking about
261
00:13:16.919 --> 00:13:19.279
where it feels detached there isn't that same sort of
262
00:13:19.360 --> 00:13:21.360
like you know connection with all of them but it
263
00:13:21.379 --> 00:13:24.879
also feels like certain like in society as a whole
264
00:13:25.419 --> 00:13:28.610
that youth they're just getting to there without any real
265
00:13:28.870 --> 00:13:31.009
path you know it's just like they expect to be
266
00:13:31.049 --> 00:13:33.529
there right now and if they're not it's like what
267
00:13:33.549 --> 00:13:36.190
the fuck's going on I demand this I need that
268
00:13:36.250 --> 00:13:37.250
right now and.
269
00:13:37.210 --> 00:13:40.690
It's that's not great It's not healthy either.
270
00:13:40.889 --> 00:13:41.730
No, no.
271
00:13:43.470 --> 00:13:47.190
So you obviously signed there then. How does that then
272
00:13:47.769 --> 00:13:51.309
kick on for you? Because you're in against some top
273
00:13:52.210 --> 00:13:54.350
players there to try and break through. As a young
274
00:13:54.389 --> 00:13:55.330
boy coming through.
275
00:13:55.730 --> 00:13:59.820
It's a challenge for you. Yeah, so I mean... Joining
276
00:14:00.379 --> 00:14:02.740
at 16 years old, all you're thinking about is just
277
00:14:02.980 --> 00:14:05.080
what's at the end of your nose, really. The same
278
00:14:05.139 --> 00:14:09.000
as when you're 12 and you're playing football with the
279
00:14:09.039 --> 00:14:13.590
folk that are from all over Scotland and Ireland and
280
00:14:13.649 --> 00:14:16.990
England and Wales and often mainland Europe. It's like what's
281
00:14:17.090 --> 00:14:20.610
right there in front of you. It's like, Wayne from Wales,
282
00:14:20.769 --> 00:14:25.409
he's a good player. I've got to compete. You're learning
283
00:14:25.429 --> 00:14:28.740
how to compete. And then bit by bit, you know,
284
00:14:28.759 --> 00:14:30.730
you're just sort of making your way through and then
285
00:14:30.759 --> 00:14:33.909
it's like into the, because again, I don't know what
286
00:14:33.929 --> 00:14:35.789
the set up in Scotland was at the time, but
287
00:14:35.809 --> 00:14:37.710
obviously down there it was like A team, B team.
288
00:14:37.909 --> 00:14:40.090
It was like first year, second year, then it was reserves,
289
00:14:40.370 --> 00:14:42.230
and then it was first team. So there was like
290
00:14:42.289 --> 00:14:46.129
a clear, you know, stepping stones. And then you're getting
291
00:14:46.169 --> 00:14:49.210
into the reserves and then, you know, you're starting to
292
00:14:49.230 --> 00:14:53.450
see folk just like drifting away and you keep, you know, progressing.
293
00:14:54.509 --> 00:14:57.809
So for me, it was just like, it just felt
294
00:14:57.830 --> 00:15:02.850
like a constant sort of progression, upward trajectory to breaking
295
00:15:02.889 --> 00:15:07.929
in and making a debut for the first team. And
296
00:15:07.970 --> 00:15:10.389
there was always that, like United as well was never,
297
00:15:10.720 --> 00:15:14.299
it was never somewhere where, you know, I could have
298
00:15:14.320 --> 00:15:21.159
gone to many other clubs and earned more money, but again,
299
00:15:21.399 --> 00:15:24.559
sort of projecting slightly here, but with a certain degree
300
00:15:24.580 --> 00:15:27.639
of knowledge that I think what he was doing was,
301
00:15:27.779 --> 00:15:31.240
and he would say it subtly as well, for you
302
00:15:31.279 --> 00:15:33.559
to get something, you're not going to be given it.
303
00:15:33.840 --> 00:15:37.960
You get to there, you'll get what you deserve. You're
304
00:15:37.980 --> 00:15:39.740
not going to get it in advance because it sort
305
00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:44.539
of neuters that hunger and that drive. So going into
306
00:15:44.559 --> 00:15:46.840
the youth team, you could go to other clubs and
307
00:15:46.860 --> 00:15:49.519
get more money, but you don't mind United. There was
308
00:15:49.539 --> 00:15:52.139
an element of that. This is the best place, so
309
00:15:52.159 --> 00:15:54.100
this is what you need to do. you get to there,
310
00:15:54.340 --> 00:15:59.070
you'll get rewarded. Get there, you'll get rewarded. And also
311
00:15:59.090 --> 00:16:02.269
that was how it panned out until such time as
312
00:16:02.330 --> 00:16:04.429
obviously going to the first team and then it was like,
313
00:16:04.570 --> 00:16:08.389
there's a first team contract. Obviously, it's a first team
314
00:16:08.429 --> 00:16:10.820
contract which is brilliant, but it's not like the top.
315
00:16:10.980 --> 00:16:12.500
It's the same thing. You get into the first team,
316
00:16:12.519 --> 00:16:16.679
you continue to develop, you'll get another. So, it was just,
317
00:16:17.580 --> 00:16:23.049
there was no, again, like, I think it's once you
318
00:16:23.220 --> 00:16:26.340
get older and you leave and you've got a certain
319
00:16:26.539 --> 00:16:30.980
sense of, you've got something else to compare with. Because
320
00:16:31.000 --> 00:16:34.600
I remember looking back and folk would ask, oh, that's unbelievable.
321
00:16:34.620 --> 00:16:38.200
You were doing that and you were like, well, you
322
00:16:38.240 --> 00:16:42.039
don't know anything different. So it was what it was.
323
00:16:43.419 --> 00:16:46.690
But there was never any, at that point, I don't
324
00:16:46.710 --> 00:16:50.970
think I ever contemplated or thought about how am I
325
00:16:50.990 --> 00:16:55.230
going to, get to there just like well aye I'm
326
00:16:55.250 --> 00:16:58.409
listening to the gaffer I'm listening to those folk it's just.
327
00:16:58.289 --> 00:17:00.610
Like that's just youth kind of taking in your stride
328
00:17:00.690 --> 00:17:01.370
a wee bit.
329
00:17:01.169 --> 00:17:03.950
Totally there totally is but also like I'm saying you're
330
00:17:03.970 --> 00:17:05.769
listening to these folk and they're saying you keep doing
331
00:17:05.970 --> 00:17:08.680
this you'll get there you keep doing you know so
332
00:17:09.579 --> 00:17:12.000
aye but there is there's 100% there's an element of
333
00:17:12.119 --> 00:17:17.180
innocence of youth you know well I suppose erm one
334
00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:19.599
of the sort of problems I had, especially once, you know,
335
00:17:19.660 --> 00:17:23.200
getting to that stage, the gaffer, I remember him saying
336
00:17:23.220 --> 00:17:24.819
to me, he says like, your fucking problem is you've
337
00:17:24.839 --> 00:17:27.099
got too many brains in your head. So it was like,
338
00:17:27.119 --> 00:17:29.950
you know, you start to overthink it. You know, once
339
00:17:29.970 --> 00:17:33.930
you get, so you're getting to that stage where, you know,
340
00:17:34.589 --> 00:17:37.349
things are getting more difficult. You're in the first team
341
00:17:37.390 --> 00:17:43.970
squad and it's, opportunities are, you know, they're more difficult
342
00:17:44.369 --> 00:17:46.839
and then you're starting to like, think like, how's that right?
343
00:17:46.900 --> 00:17:48.720
Where am I fitting in here? How am I getting that?
344
00:17:48.799 --> 00:17:51.460
Where am I getting to there? And, to a certain degree,
345
00:17:51.589 --> 00:17:55.130
you've just got to be oblivious to that. And that's,
346
00:17:55.529 --> 00:17:56.430
you know, that's an act.
347
00:17:56.470 --> 00:17:58.670
Rather than being instinctive where you'd been a wee bit before.
348
00:17:58.750 --> 00:18:02.029
Totally. And, I mean, one of the big problems that
349
00:18:02.509 --> 00:18:07.579
I faced at that point was that when I'd just signed,
350
00:18:07.720 --> 00:18:12.859
or around about that point, I'd signed a new first
351
00:18:12.940 --> 00:18:19.930
team contract, Roy's lawyer, Michael Kennedy, it was almost a
352
00:18:20.430 --> 00:18:23.210
conveyor belt. When I speak to the gaffer, right, there's
353
00:18:23.230 --> 00:18:26.910
the first, right, okay, brilliant, right, go and speak to Roy, right, okay,
354
00:18:26.950 --> 00:18:28.670
I'm going to speak to Roy, right, I'll get Michael
355
00:18:28.690 --> 00:18:31.529
to phone you, so speak to Michael, Michael goes in,
356
00:18:31.849 --> 00:18:35.150
gets a better deal. So Roy's lawyer, never had an agent,
357
00:18:35.349 --> 00:18:37.269
Roy's lawyer basically done the contract.
358
00:18:39.289 --> 00:18:42.390
I think recently, even like Sir Gary, I'm sure there
359
00:18:42.430 --> 00:18:45.059
was always Speak to Roy. It seemed to be he
360
00:18:45.099 --> 00:18:45.509
was kind of.
361
00:18:45.769 --> 00:18:46.460
Well, he was.
362
00:18:47.230 --> 00:18:51.650
Yeah, he was the man. And there was like, I
363
00:18:51.910 --> 00:18:53.349
think there was four or five of us around about
364
00:18:53.369 --> 00:18:55.710
the same sort of time. Wes had not long, previous
365
00:18:55.769 --> 00:18:59.650
Brown had signed a new deal. Chad, remember Luke Chad?
366
00:18:59.880 --> 00:19:03.980
Chad had done it. Shazy, myself. So that was, you
367
00:19:04.019 --> 00:19:07.740
could see effectively what the gaffer was, he was looking, right,
368
00:19:07.799 --> 00:19:10.339
that's the next group of guys that I'm moving on.
369
00:19:10.940 --> 00:19:13.819
The problem was for me at the same point, was
370
00:19:14.279 --> 00:19:18.509
the gaffer was meant to be retiring the end of
371
00:19:18.549 --> 00:19:21.150
that year when a member of the Champions League final
372
00:19:21.190 --> 00:19:25.609
was at Hampden. Real Madrid v Bayer Leverkusen. So that
373
00:19:25.650 --> 00:19:29.109
had been about 2002 or 2000, around about that time.
374
00:19:29.329 --> 00:19:30.549
So he was talking about retiring?
375
00:19:30.569 --> 00:19:32.450
Well, he was. He announced he was going to retire.
376
00:19:32.470 --> 00:19:37.450
But at the start of that season, he had signed
377
00:19:37.990 --> 00:19:42.670
Juan Sebastian Varane. So I look at it and I
378
00:19:42.690 --> 00:19:47.079
think to myself, that feels a bit like the Van
379
00:19:47.119 --> 00:19:49.819
Persie at the end, where it was like signing somebody
380
00:19:49.839 --> 00:19:52.859
to try and get an end result but a bit
381
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:55.519
of a short term fix which was not really what
382
00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:58.730
he was doing so he signed up all the young
383
00:19:58.769 --> 00:20:00.450
boys and here's a bit of a short term fix
384
00:20:00.470 --> 00:20:03.130
but the problem for me was obviously playing in midfield
385
00:20:03.150 --> 00:20:07.509
that's even more difficult first game of the season where
386
00:20:07.529 --> 00:20:10.190
I was a Champions League qualifier against a Hungarian team
387
00:20:10.230 --> 00:20:14.980
called Zalagorzeg, and we were out in Budapest, playing, and
388
00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:19.700
I was on the bench, and so was Skolze and Butty,
389
00:20:20.099 --> 00:20:21.960
and I'm sitting there thinking to myself, that's when it
390
00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:26.589
was dawning on me, thinking like, fucking hell, like, like, fuck,
391
00:20:26.730 --> 00:20:30.549
you know, broken in, making your debut, signing a new deal,
392
00:20:30.730 --> 00:20:33.230
and then it's like, you're still sitting there as well, aye,
393
00:20:33.809 --> 00:20:35.130
And you know what it's like in football at that
394
00:20:35.190 --> 00:20:38.130
point in particular, like the longer it takes to make
395
00:20:38.210 --> 00:20:41.220
that net and become established, the more difficult it becomes,
396
00:20:41.480 --> 00:20:44.200
you know? You can't really afford to be sort of,
397
00:20:44.640 --> 00:20:47.299
you know, not wasting, but plateauing.
398
00:20:47.339 --> 00:20:49.920
So what was the standard? Obviously, when you played in
399
00:20:49.940 --> 00:20:51.529
the first team, you played the reserve games.
400
00:20:51.950 --> 00:20:52.309
Ah, yeah.
401
00:20:52.329 --> 00:20:54.970
Was it similar to Scotland where you play when the
402
00:20:55.009 --> 00:20:55.789
first team's playing?
403
00:20:56.750 --> 00:20:57.970
Not at the weekends, no.
404
00:20:58.150 --> 00:20:58.849
It was during the week.
405
00:20:58.890 --> 00:21:01.500
It was during the week, but... Yeah, so you'd just
406
00:21:01.539 --> 00:21:03.369
be training with the first team and then you'd be
407
00:21:03.549 --> 00:21:06.710
in the squad and you'd be primarily, your games were,
408
00:21:06.750 --> 00:21:07.970
you'd be playing in the Razzies.
409
00:21:07.990 --> 00:21:08.509
So a good standard.
410
00:21:08.529 --> 00:21:10.609
Oh, but the Razzies, I mean, you're talking about a
411
00:21:10.650 --> 00:21:12.750
good team. I remember some games, there was a game
412
00:21:12.789 --> 00:21:13.470
in particular.
413
00:21:13.490 --> 00:21:16.559
Is that side of it similar then? So you're senior pros,
414
00:21:16.599 --> 00:21:16.960
you're going to.
415
00:21:17.460 --> 00:21:20.420
Aye. Well, I mean, yeah, so I remember one game
416
00:21:20.460 --> 00:21:23.640
playing with the Razzies, we were playing Liverpool and our
417
00:21:23.660 --> 00:21:27.339
team was like, it was the likes of, say, Roy
418
00:21:27.380 --> 00:21:33.099
Carroll was in goals. it was like Shazy, me, Davey May,
419
00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:42.380
and then you had like Butty, Ollie, Teddy, remember Jonathan Greenan?
420
00:21:42.460 --> 00:21:43.019
Jonathan Greenan?
421
00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:43.119
Yeah.
422
00:21:43.569 --> 00:21:47.150
Jonathan was playing, Healy, David Healy, it was that sort of,
423
00:21:47.150 --> 00:21:48.509
you know, you're looking at a team and you've got
424
00:21:48.529 --> 00:21:54.289
a basketball team. Liverpool was like Kirkland and goals, Redknapp, Smeitzer,
425
00:21:54.859 --> 00:21:58.640
I think Fowler was coming back from an injury. You know, like,
426
00:21:58.819 --> 00:22:02.539
the two teams that you're calling, like, that's, like, two
427
00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:05.420
proper teams. And it wasn't like that every week, but,
428
00:22:05.940 --> 00:22:09.039
you know, there was definitely, there was scope for guys
429
00:22:09.079 --> 00:22:09.880
to be playing.
430
00:22:10.259 --> 00:22:13.670
But at that point, your thinking is, were you already thinking,
431
00:22:13.690 --> 00:22:15.089
I might need to move here to get.
432
00:22:15.130 --> 00:22:18.349
No, I wasn't thinking about moving, no, but you're starting
433
00:22:18.410 --> 00:22:20.809
to just question, because up until that point, I never
434
00:22:20.829 --> 00:22:22.809
thought about anything else other than just playing at my night.
435
00:22:22.869 --> 00:22:23.470
Yeah.
436
00:22:24.529 --> 00:22:30.250
No, I was starting to think, I'm not sure. Whereas before,
437
00:22:30.269 --> 00:22:34.890
I didn't have any. There was no doubt. At the
438
00:22:34.910 --> 00:22:37.400
start of the next season, I went to Forrest on
439
00:22:37.440 --> 00:22:42.359
loan because it was like a season of not doing enough.
440
00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:45.660
You're saying he announced his retirement. How did that manufacture again?
441
00:22:45.680 --> 00:22:46.289
Did he just....
442
00:22:48.950 --> 00:22:50.250
I don't, I don't know.
443
00:22:52.569 --> 00:22:56.269
Well, I think he's obviously, I think he's obviously, I
444
00:22:56.309 --> 00:22:58.650
think he's obviously spoken about it publicly in terms of,
445
00:23:00.450 --> 00:23:03.920
I think in large part, he said that, you know,
446
00:23:03.980 --> 00:23:07.259
his message was like, you know, you've got too much,
447
00:23:07.720 --> 00:23:09.640
you know, you need to keep going. And I think
448
00:23:09.900 --> 00:23:11.420
he was also feeling it himself.
449
00:23:11.480 --> 00:23:11.660
Yeah.
450
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:15.819
So, I think there was possibly maybe an element of
451
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:17.579
the fact that the Champions League final was at Hampden
452
00:23:17.619 --> 00:23:21.029
that year he maybe just thought imagine that finish at
453
00:23:21.049 --> 00:23:25.210
Hampden and just sail off into the sun but I
454
00:23:25.230 --> 00:23:27.589
don't know but what I do just remember was that
455
00:23:28.329 --> 00:23:31.950
it was probably the first time you know being at
456
00:23:31.970 --> 00:23:35.529
the club where there was an element of uncertainty surrounding
457
00:23:35.549 --> 00:23:38.589
the club as a whole and the season if my
458
00:23:38.630 --> 00:23:42.690
recollection is correct the season didn't start particularly well it
459
00:23:42.710 --> 00:23:45.880
was a bit shaky Carlos Queiroz had come in as
460
00:23:45.940 --> 00:23:49.279
like assistant manager his coaching was different as well everything
461
00:23:49.319 --> 00:23:54.250
just felt like it was unsure and he reverted back
462
00:23:54.289 --> 00:23:56.950
to you know playing a lot of the like but
463
00:23:56.970 --> 00:23:59.650
he started playing a lot more that season yeah so
464
00:23:59.670 --> 00:24:01.250
that would have been 2002 I'll tell you why I
465
00:24:01.250 --> 00:24:03.170
remember because at the end of the season he went
466
00:24:03.190 --> 00:24:05.329
to the World Cup England and ended up being like
467
00:24:05.529 --> 00:24:08.349
England's best player at the start of the season it
468
00:24:08.369 --> 00:24:10.849
was didn't know what was going to happen yeah And
469
00:24:10.869 --> 00:24:11.950
I think a lot of it was down to the
470
00:24:11.970 --> 00:24:14.690
gaffer was like he needed to get back to folk
471
00:24:14.710 --> 00:24:18.940
that he could trust, starting to build back up. So
472
00:24:19.140 --> 00:24:22.319
it was possibly an element of he didn't feel like
473
00:24:22.359 --> 00:24:24.420
it was going to end up what he wanted it.
474
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:27.380
And it was like, I'm not leaving on a low.
475
00:24:28.400 --> 00:24:31.000
And obviously he stayed. And I think everybody at that
476
00:24:31.059 --> 00:24:34.680
point felt, this is definitely the right decision. And it
477
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:39.799
took away an element of, uncertainty that hadn't never really
478
00:24:39.819 --> 00:24:43.359
been there before as long as I'd known so you kind.
479
00:24:43.259 --> 00:24:44.619
Of got to the start of the next season and
480
00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:46.440
then what's your thought process.
481
00:24:46.119 --> 00:24:49.849
I saw the gaffer was wanting me to go he
482
00:24:49.869 --> 00:24:52.769
wanted me to go on loan to Burnley I remember
483
00:24:52.829 --> 00:24:58.430
Stan Ternan he was he was the gaffer's mate and
484
00:24:58.970 --> 00:25:03.390
he wanted me to go there but I wasn't too
485
00:25:03.450 --> 00:25:08.730
sure and I had quite a few guys that I
486
00:25:08.750 --> 00:25:11.950
knew that were down at Forest, and Forest had got
487
00:25:11.990 --> 00:25:15.549
to the playoffs the year before, and they played some
488
00:25:15.589 --> 00:25:18.670
good football, but this is just my ignorance and my
489
00:25:18.730 --> 00:25:25.170
stupidity when I look back on it all. So I
490
00:25:26.829 --> 00:25:29.049
ended up going down, I was like, no, no, I
491
00:25:29.069 --> 00:25:31.190
want to go, so I went there, and.
492
00:25:34.089 --> 00:25:36.789
Like Ian Jester was there so that's where I got
493
00:25:36.809 --> 00:25:38.069
to he was the manager there so it was a
494
00:25:38.089 --> 00:25:40.880
guy called Paul Hart he was the youth team manager
495
00:25:41.019 --> 00:25:43.339
he was the youth team manager and became the first
496
00:25:43.359 --> 00:25:50.140
team manager and he ended up didn't he start you
497
00:25:50.160 --> 00:25:55.680
know the team didn't start particularly well he had a
498
00:25:55.799 --> 00:26:01.380
great propensity for just you know focusing all his ire
499
00:26:01.460 --> 00:26:04.069
on young boys he'd been the youth team manager couldn't
500
00:26:04.109 --> 00:26:06.869
really deal with experienced players, so it was like, you
501
00:26:06.890 --> 00:26:09.569
start to get this sort of split of like, they're
502
00:26:09.589 --> 00:26:12.009
getting blamed for everything, they can do whatever they want,
503
00:26:12.109 --> 00:26:15.380
and it's like, that's fucking bullshit, you know, so it
504
00:26:15.440 --> 00:26:18.200
started to become quite a sort of fractured, but I mean,
505
00:26:18.440 --> 00:26:19.819
it was a good team for us, you know, I
506
00:26:19.819 --> 00:26:26.039
had like, big Michael Dawson, centre half, Andy Reid, midfield, Jester,
507
00:26:27.220 --> 00:26:31.569
who was still just a class player, they had quite
508
00:26:31.589 --> 00:26:35.549
a few other boys that, Irish boys that were like
509
00:26:35.630 --> 00:26:39.460
good good players and some other sort of foreign guys
510
00:26:39.480 --> 00:26:41.599
I mean it was a good team but just didn't
511
00:26:41.759 --> 00:26:45.220
it wasn't a particularly good season and by the end
512
00:26:45.259 --> 00:26:47.460
of it What year was this? That would have been
513
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:49.519
like 03, 04 I'm.
514
00:26:49.559 --> 00:26:53.130
Just trying to remember if I played against I think
515
00:26:53.190 --> 00:26:55.650
Jess was at Was Jess at Bradford before that?
516
00:26:56.029 --> 00:26:57.650
That was way before, aye, because that was when the
517
00:26:57.730 --> 00:27:00.130
jet was down at Bradford. And then after Bradford, did
518
00:27:00.170 --> 00:27:02.799
Jess still not come back up to Aberdeen? I think
519
00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:07.299
he did. No, no, no. That was Coventry back to Aberdeen,
520
00:27:07.619 --> 00:27:14.660
down to Bradford. He maybe went Bradford to Forest, possibly. So,
521
00:27:16.140 --> 00:27:19.000
and at that point, you know, so it hadn't been
522
00:27:19.039 --> 00:27:24.910
a good season. And I remember going back to United
523
00:27:24.970 --> 00:27:26.119
at the start of the season and I was like,
524
00:27:26.130 --> 00:27:30.720
this is not good. It's not the way it should
525
00:27:30.759 --> 00:27:35.960
have been. And at that point, I think it was
526
00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:38.849
in pre-season, I remember having a meeting with the gaffer
527
00:27:39.460 --> 00:27:42.130
and it was just like, right, you're going to need
528
00:27:42.150 --> 00:27:47.549
to leave. And I just wanted to go home. So
529
00:27:48.349 --> 00:27:48.519
I had.
530
00:27:50.799 --> 00:27:53.539
But the last part of the season, I hadn't played much,
531
00:27:53.599 --> 00:27:56.839
so it was a case of, I had a chance
532
00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:59.960
to come back up, and go into Rangers, but they
533
00:27:59.980 --> 00:28:02.930
were like, just want, obviously big, Alec McLeish was the
534
00:28:02.970 --> 00:28:05.150
manager at the time, and it was like, come back up,
535
00:28:05.190 --> 00:28:08.250
but come and do pre-season, make sure, fitness wise, and
536
00:28:08.269 --> 00:28:10.369
I was like, fine, no problem, anyway, I went in,
537
00:28:11.230 --> 00:28:15.940
I'd agreed, outlining our contract, but I had to obviously,
538
00:28:16.140 --> 00:28:20.000
and I went out to do pre-season, and on the
539
00:28:20.039 --> 00:28:24.349
plane out, I remember whoever it was, some official saying,
540
00:28:24.470 --> 00:28:26.650
we can't get clearance for you to play. And I
541
00:28:26.670 --> 00:28:29.359
was like, oh, right, okay. So then I'm trying to
542
00:28:29.390 --> 00:28:34.039
speak to United because it was an international cross-border transfer, effectively.
543
00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:37.140
And then it was like, oh, you're going to have
544
00:28:38.200 --> 00:28:43.819
to sort out a severance then be able to play.
545
00:28:44.539 --> 00:28:47.529
And I was like, right, okay. And then I'm trying
546
00:28:47.549 --> 00:28:51.819
to negotiate a severance to be able to play And
547
00:28:51.859 --> 00:28:58.259
it was just, it wasn't happening. It was, like anything,
548
00:28:58.299 --> 00:29:00.359
negotiations are taking a bit of time and I'm trying
549
00:29:00.380 --> 00:29:02.660
to speed this up. I had a wee problem, it
550
00:29:02.700 --> 00:29:05.460
wasn't a problem, but I had a niggle in my
551
00:29:05.579 --> 00:29:08.619
ankle as well. And effectively, by the end of this
552
00:29:08.740 --> 00:29:13.269
trip out to, I think it was in Austria, Slovenia,
553
00:29:14.849 --> 00:29:17.170
Big Heck had said, look, I'm not comfortable doing this.
554
00:29:17.549 --> 00:29:22.220
Because what I was getting offered from United was... not
555
00:29:22.420 --> 00:29:24.519
what I should have been. And I was like, I
556
00:29:24.539 --> 00:29:26.599
was actually willing to do it in the end and
557
00:29:26.680 --> 00:29:30.269
do the deal. And he was like, look, you can't
558
00:29:30.309 --> 00:29:32.609
do that. Like, it's not like that.
559
00:29:32.690 --> 00:29:35.369
Is that because you're getting your last year of the contract?
560
00:29:35.369 --> 00:29:36.680
No, no, it's not three years.
561
00:29:36.680 --> 00:29:37.009
Oh, wow.
562
00:29:37.009 --> 00:29:39.079
It's not three years. So, I mean, this was it
563
00:29:39.099 --> 00:29:41.900
was big money yeah but I was like I just
564
00:29:41.940 --> 00:29:44.599
wanted to go home and play football at that point
565
00:29:44.880 --> 00:29:46.920
and he was like I'm not comfortable so they basically
566
00:29:46.940 --> 00:29:50.009
said no we're not going to do this so I'm
567
00:29:50.089 --> 00:29:52.009
like thinking like what am I going to do like
568
00:29:52.670 --> 00:29:54.890
at this stage I was honestly like psychologically I was
569
00:29:54.930 --> 00:29:57.450
like I don't want to go back down to Manchester
570
00:29:57.470 --> 00:30:00.279
I was like and do what like I'd already got
571
00:30:00.359 --> 00:30:01.920
it in my head. I was like, I'm going home.
572
00:30:02.440 --> 00:30:06.539
I'd just bought a place in Edinburgh. I was like,
573
00:30:07.740 --> 00:30:09.680
I'm going home. I'm going to play football back home
574
00:30:09.720 --> 00:30:14.339
and I'll start again. So I was like, I don't
575
00:30:14.359 --> 00:30:20.049
know what I can do. Eventually, I was humming and
576
00:30:20.089 --> 00:30:24.430
honing about what to do. And at that stage, through
577
00:30:24.470 --> 00:30:28.069
somebody I know, that was where I'd said, well, why don't,
578
00:30:28.730 --> 00:30:30.210
try and speak to Hearts and I'll go on loan
579
00:30:31.490 --> 00:30:33.059
so I reached it didn't have any money I was
580
00:30:33.099 --> 00:30:37.920
like that's fine I'll basically take whatever United will pay
581
00:30:38.380 --> 00:30:40.319
and then whatever you're meant to pay I'll just take
582
00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:43.319
effective wage cut so I took a 40% wage cut
583
00:30:43.640 --> 00:30:46.400
just to come home to go and play at Hearts
584
00:30:47.289 --> 00:30:51.950
and then obviously that didn't go to the other because
585
00:30:52.950 --> 00:30:55.269
the naivety of me was just like I just want
586
00:30:55.289 --> 00:31:00.029
to go like and That's where I think, in terms
587
00:31:00.089 --> 00:31:05.829
of proper advice, proper experience, and I'm going into somewhere
588
00:31:05.849 --> 00:31:10.559
that just was the complete wrong place. Who's the manager there? Levine. Hi, guys.
589
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:13.539
As you probably well know by now, we have signed
590
00:31:13.640 --> 00:31:18.599
up for the London Marathon next April, and we have
591
00:31:18.640 --> 00:31:21.880
some fantastic people supporting us, groups supporting us. We're doing
592
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:24.079
it for a fantastic cause, or two causes. Who are
593
00:31:24.099 --> 00:31:24.500
we doing it for?
594
00:31:24.720 --> 00:31:28.890
We're doing it for Headway UK. And the Consilium Sports Foundation.
595
00:31:29.150 --> 00:31:33.119
Yeah, so we're going to have some updated videos of
596
00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:36.440
our progress and our training and everything else it takes
597
00:31:36.539 --> 00:31:39.559
to get us over the line. He's emphasised that time
598
00:31:39.599 --> 00:31:40.259
doesn't matter.
599
00:31:40.279 --> 00:31:41.640
It doesn't, not in a marathon.
600
00:31:42.240 --> 00:31:45.160
As long as we complete it. There'll be a link
601
00:31:45.299 --> 00:31:49.740
in the bio for any charity donations. We're going to
602
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:51.599
be raising as much money as we can over the
603
00:31:51.660 --> 00:31:56.059
next period of time. Our training starts very soon. And yeah,
604
00:31:56.079 --> 00:31:58.089
look forward to some updates on here.
605
00:31:58.269 --> 00:32:03.430
Hopefully no injuries. So you're, you know, just total wrong character,
606
00:32:03.450 --> 00:32:07.670
total wrong football. Everyone's wrong about it, but I'm blind
607
00:32:07.710 --> 00:32:10.670
to it. Because all I'm thinking is, going home, going
608
00:32:10.690 --> 00:32:13.380
to go and play. And like, I'm just thinking, I'll
609
00:32:13.400 --> 00:32:15.420
go and play anyway. It's not a problem.
610
00:32:15.700 --> 00:32:18.839
So you're still a lawyer with your kind of agent?
611
00:32:19.220 --> 00:32:19.980
Not really.
612
00:32:20.059 --> 00:32:22.079
No, not at that point. I'm doing it, you know,
613
00:32:22.259 --> 00:32:26.970
effectively myself, you know, um, Which is another thing of, like,
614
00:32:27.309 --> 00:32:29.329
you know, coming through the ranks at United, never had
615
00:32:29.369 --> 00:32:32.400
an agent, never wanted an agent, also almost fearful of
616
00:32:32.410 --> 00:32:36.299
them because the gaffer, like, saying, like, fucking agents are Satan,
617
00:32:36.500 --> 00:32:38.299
you know, even though my son's one.
618
00:32:38.319 --> 00:32:40.460
I know, I'm going to say that. My son's going
619
00:32:40.500 --> 00:32:41.619
to be a pleasure woman, my boy.
620
00:32:42.059 --> 00:32:44.759
But you got the sort of, you know, the essence
621
00:32:44.819 --> 00:32:47.000
of there are good guys and then there's a lot
622
00:32:47.019 --> 00:32:50.569
of absolute, like, charlatans. So, like, that was just the
623
00:32:50.609 --> 00:32:53.640
feeling of, like, hmm. I didn't want didn't need one
624
00:32:53.660 --> 00:32:56.400
because I'm here on Roy's lot perfect you know I
625
00:32:56.420 --> 00:32:59.059
was like that sorts it but then that's all well
626
00:32:59.079 --> 00:33:01.640
and good until such point is like right now we're
627
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:04.700
going and then it's like so I just basically came
628
00:33:04.740 --> 00:33:06.940
back up the road and I've often said it's the
629
00:33:07.019 --> 00:33:08.859
best thing I could have ever done in terms of
630
00:33:09.039 --> 00:33:10.789
like for my life it's the worst thing I could
631
00:33:10.809 --> 00:33:13.009
have done in terms of like football you know I
632
00:33:13.029 --> 00:33:16.490
could have stayed down south and done you know other
633
00:33:16.549 --> 00:33:20.009
things it would have been far better but no best
634
00:33:20.029 --> 00:33:23.599
decision I've ever made for my life so I don't
635
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:26.779
regret at all even though it didn't work to begin with.
636
00:33:27.279 --> 00:33:29.660
Yeah so it was just obviously the style of play
637
00:33:29.700 --> 00:33:33.619
and you're saying different characters characters the real conflict of
638
00:33:33.640 --> 00:33:34.819
character totally.
639
00:33:34.480 --> 00:33:36.819
I mean I think we'll all have experienced it at
640
00:33:36.859 --> 00:33:38.839
some point in our career where it just like you
641
00:33:38.859 --> 00:33:42.109
know you're just feels like you're trying to push water
642
00:33:42.130 --> 00:33:45.029
up a hill you know and you're grating and it's
643
00:33:45.049 --> 00:33:49.529
just like I don't understand this like I really don't.
644
00:33:49.369 --> 00:33:52.089
Understand I exactly the same when I came back for
645
00:33:52.250 --> 00:33:57.140
Wolves to Aberdeen with Jimmy Calderwood exactly the same came
646
00:33:57.160 --> 00:33:59.960
back and the right reasons wanted to get back home
647
00:34:00.220 --> 00:34:02.039
and the family and everything else had the chance to
648
00:34:02.839 --> 00:34:07.839
go other places and you just know I lasted eight
649
00:34:07.880 --> 00:34:11.929
months and the boys used to go can't believe you
650
00:34:11.949 --> 00:34:15.170
lasted eight months travelling up to Edinburgh to Aberdeen but
651
00:34:15.309 --> 00:34:19.230
it was just you just know like the personality everything
652
00:34:19.250 --> 00:34:22.090
that we're doing it's no you and it's when you've
653
00:34:22.110 --> 00:34:24.789
been in certain places and worked with different people as well,
654
00:34:25.190 --> 00:34:28.090
and you go to that, you go, you know, do
655
00:34:28.110 --> 00:34:30.699
you bite your tongue when you bit and you don't say,
656
00:34:30.739 --> 00:34:34.059
but then sometimes you're going to explode at some point,
657
00:34:34.179 --> 00:34:35.460
and that's what happens.
658
00:34:35.639 --> 00:34:37.079
Aye, aye.
659
00:34:37.340 --> 00:34:39.380
I mean, there was just, there was a number of
660
00:34:39.440 --> 00:34:41.300
sort of things that just sort of happened along the
661
00:34:41.320 --> 00:34:44.739
road that were just like, but I'm still young at
662
00:34:44.760 --> 00:34:47.079
that point as well, you know, and I'm still like,
663
00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:50.000
it's been, everything's up, up, up, up, up, and then
664
00:34:50.059 --> 00:34:52.110
it's like, and then now I'm doing this and I'm
665
00:34:52.139 --> 00:34:54.389
like going, Jesus Christ, man, I like this.
666
00:34:54.489 --> 00:34:57.829
Your frustration must be getting built there because you've united,
667
00:34:58.170 --> 00:35:00.889
you've been through that kind of period where it's so
668
00:35:00.929 --> 00:35:07.769
exciting and you're progressing quite happily. Then it's plateaued out,
669
00:35:07.849 --> 00:35:10.550
as you describe it. Then you're at forest and it
670
00:35:10.590 --> 00:35:12.289
doesn't quite work and then all of a sudden you're
671
00:35:12.309 --> 00:35:15.150
back home with heart. So where do you get to
672
00:35:15.190 --> 00:35:16.150
your happy place there?
673
00:35:16.309 --> 00:35:20.090
So the Great Island and all that is at the time, though, where,
674
00:35:20.389 --> 00:35:23.260
you know, Like, subconsciously when I was down the road,
675
00:35:23.460 --> 00:35:26.340
like laterally when you, you know, like, I've got other
676
00:35:26.380 --> 00:35:29.099
things that interest me away from football. But when you're young,
677
00:35:29.119 --> 00:35:31.420
you're still sort of learning about stuff. And it got
678
00:35:31.460 --> 00:35:33.420
to a stage where I felt quite sort of suffocated
679
00:35:33.460 --> 00:35:36.179
by it all because everybody you knew was connected to
680
00:35:36.219 --> 00:35:39.070
football in some capacity. Even folk that were like, you know,
681
00:35:39.110 --> 00:35:42.329
really nice people. It may have been like, you know,
682
00:35:42.510 --> 00:35:45.250
the family of your landlady or whatever. They're all nice folk.
683
00:35:45.289 --> 00:35:47.250
And I used to gravitate to them. But I'd still
684
00:35:47.269 --> 00:35:50.849
feel like, I only know them because of football. You know? Whereas, like,
685
00:35:51.880 --> 00:35:55.059
you know, you're at home, you know, a million folk,
686
00:35:55.260 --> 00:35:58.860
none of them were football. And it just, there was
687
00:35:58.900 --> 00:36:02.929
that side that, so away from the football, I was like,
688
00:36:02.949 --> 00:36:07.070
it was great. You know, everyone like, just the fact
689
00:36:07.110 --> 00:36:08.909
of being able to like, you know, like have a
690
00:36:08.929 --> 00:36:13.269
life away from football. And that definitely was great. But
691
00:36:13.309 --> 00:36:16.550
in terms of the football, it was like, you know,
692
00:36:16.570 --> 00:36:20.389
it was a challenge, it was a battle. And, yeah,
693
00:36:22.099 --> 00:36:23.239
I mean, Christ, I can't say.
694
00:36:23.260 --> 00:36:29.059
Where were you most happiest when you were playing? Probably
695
00:36:29.119 --> 00:36:29.679
at United.
696
00:36:30.019 --> 00:36:31.139
Aye. Aye. At the start.
697
00:36:31.400 --> 00:36:31.519
Aye.
698
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:33.820
I mean, and don't get me wrong, there was periods of, like,
699
00:36:33.860 --> 00:36:36.940
you know, where I enjoyed it, like, when I was
700
00:36:36.980 --> 00:36:43.510
home as well. But I definitely, you know, there's different
701
00:36:43.989 --> 00:36:47.190
chapters there. I enjoyed elements when I was at home
702
00:36:47.230 --> 00:36:47.489
as well.
703
00:36:48.889 --> 00:36:52.110
So the United stuff was it the quality of football
704
00:36:52.210 --> 00:36:53.889
round about you that you were playing with you were
705
00:36:53.909 --> 00:36:55.969
training with every day you know what it's like you
706
00:36:55.989 --> 00:37:00.280
play with better players it's easier it's easier so there
707
00:37:00.300 --> 00:37:02.400
was I mean coming home there's still loads of great
708
00:37:02.679 --> 00:37:06.460
guys you're playing with there is but there sometimes there's
709
00:37:06.940 --> 00:37:11.260
there would be a level of frustration at certain things
710
00:37:11.300 --> 00:37:13.710
where you just felt like there'd be a few folk
711
00:37:13.730 --> 00:37:16.570
that understood or were on your wavelength but there's some
712
00:37:16.590 --> 00:37:21.650
that you know just like you know just frustration but
713
00:37:22.730 --> 00:37:26.030
I mean somebody was asking the other day about how
714
00:37:26.050 --> 00:37:30.630
did going to Hibs come about and like it was
715
00:37:30.670 --> 00:37:33.210
that I think you know that season at Hearts where
716
00:37:33.530 --> 00:37:37.030
like somebody like Levine it just it took the joy
717
00:37:37.050 --> 00:37:40.469
out of football you know and like I want to
718
00:37:40.840 --> 00:37:41.590
enjoy and.
719
00:37:41.570 --> 00:37:45.460
Play proper football the way I would envisage it and
720
00:37:45.500 --> 00:37:48.420
that just sucked the life out of it And then,
721
00:37:48.619 --> 00:37:52.139
even though he'd left, it really, like, scunnered me. So,
722
00:37:52.599 --> 00:37:55.119
Vlad was coming in, they'd offered me a deal to stay,
723
00:37:55.159 --> 00:37:58.619
but I was like, I didn't enjoy it. And I
724
00:37:58.639 --> 00:37:59.949
was at a stage where I was like, I need
725
00:37:59.969 --> 00:38:03.070
to actually, like, enjoy playing football again. And obviously, Hibs
726
00:38:03.110 --> 00:38:04.570
at the time was mogger.
727
00:38:05.690 --> 00:38:06.389
He played football.
728
00:38:06.610 --> 00:38:08.869
I know latterly, didn't he work at Celtic, but if
729
00:38:08.889 --> 00:38:09.869
you speak to anybody that was.
730
00:38:09.889 --> 00:38:10.969
No, his teams were.
731
00:38:10.989 --> 00:38:12.349
He tried to play the right way, yeah.
732
00:38:12.449 --> 00:38:15.199
Aye, it was a good young team, but he was just, fundamentally,
733
00:38:15.219 --> 00:38:18.599
he was a good person, you know? And... it just
734
00:38:18.619 --> 00:38:20.980
came about, like, obviously they were in Edinburgh as well,
735
00:38:21.039 --> 00:38:23.340
and they were just like, nipping away, just saying, come
736
00:38:23.360 --> 00:38:25.639
and speak, come and speak, so, I think it was
737
00:38:25.679 --> 00:38:26.840
just at the point where I just wanted to go
738
00:38:26.880 --> 00:38:29.300
and talk to somebody on a level that understood or
739
00:38:29.340 --> 00:38:32.170
spoke the same language, you know, and started speaking away,
740
00:38:32.190 --> 00:38:34.250
and I was like, I like that, you know, I
741
00:38:34.250 --> 00:38:37.369
like them, I like that, you know, what they're saying,
742
00:38:37.389 --> 00:38:39.650
and it was a, you know, obviously it was a,
743
00:38:39.849 --> 00:38:41.349
it was a young team, a lot of good players,
744
00:38:41.389 --> 00:38:43.929
but there was folk like Classy as well, good experience guy,
745
00:38:43.969 --> 00:38:49.699
great guy, and, Gaz Caldwell, who's still young, not too
746
00:38:49.719 --> 00:38:52.429
dissimilar age-wise to me as well, but there was just
747
00:38:52.679 --> 00:38:55.119
a lot of good folk. And then I was like,
748
00:38:55.440 --> 00:38:56.940
I need to go and enjoy football. I need to
749
00:38:56.960 --> 00:38:58.280
go and play and enjoy football.
750
00:38:58.300 --> 00:39:00.420
Was there ever the Harts Hips thing with you?
751
00:39:00.619 --> 00:39:02.940
Of course there was. Of course that was there. I mean,
752
00:39:03.019 --> 00:39:05.920
that was the only thing to begin with. It was like,
753
00:39:06.019 --> 00:39:08.780
you know, sort of, aye. But then my old man,
754
00:39:08.920 --> 00:39:13.420
you know, again, I remember him just saying, like, go
755
00:39:13.440 --> 00:39:15.409
and speak to him. You know, so I think when
756
00:39:15.429 --> 00:39:19.219
you get that sort of like validation to say like,
757
00:39:19.619 --> 00:39:22.989
go and speak to him, you know, and it just
758
00:39:23.010 --> 00:39:27.610
took off from there and then really enjoyed, you know
759
00:39:27.650 --> 00:39:29.369
I did, I really enjoyed that, that was that was
760
00:39:29.449 --> 00:39:35.300
good enjoyable football that was definitely and then unfortunately when
761
00:39:35.360 --> 00:39:41.480
Mokka left your former colleague teammate had come in and
762
00:39:41.659 --> 00:39:45.400
that was that was that was the enjoyable you were
763
00:39:45.420 --> 00:39:49.949
talking about JC John I actually tried to come back
764
00:39:49.989 --> 00:39:51.670
then to Hibs.
765
00:39:51.690 --> 00:39:55.570
Right I put myself out three times I tried to
766
00:39:55.590 --> 00:39:58.190
get to Hibs from Wolves aye from Wolves before I
767
00:39:58.190 --> 00:40:02.440
went to Aberdeen right and J.C. wouldn't take me he
768
00:40:02.460 --> 00:40:06.179
had the wee boy McCann be right back Kevin McCann
769
00:40:06.199 --> 00:40:09.239
Kevin McCann he said no Kevin McCann he's gone into
770
00:40:09.260 --> 00:40:13.500
big things and that was blockies and looking at it
771
00:40:13.519 --> 00:40:16.320
there it's probably I don't think it was probably a
772
00:40:16.320 --> 00:40:18.579
good thing I didn't go with J.C. I remember it
773
00:40:18.860 --> 00:40:22.019
was like one of the start of the season and
774
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:25.199
we were playing Hibs at Easter Road and he was
775
00:40:25.219 --> 00:40:29.260
standing there at the tunnel and I went over and
776
00:40:29.510 --> 00:40:32.030
I've digged him one like in his stomach and you
777
00:40:32.050 --> 00:40:34.889
know he's like I said oh you've let yourself go
778
00:40:34.909 --> 00:40:37.250
we were out there dad he's like do it again
779
00:40:38.309 --> 00:40:40.690
he's tensing up I just walked into the.
780
00:40:40.550 --> 00:40:43.809
Road you're talking football wise I think he talks really
781
00:40:43.849 --> 00:40:46.440
well about football I always thought that and obviously he
782
00:40:46.460 --> 00:40:49.269
was a cracking player top class player but it never
783
00:40:49.449 --> 00:40:51.269
worked for you I don't know it wasn't just me
784
00:40:51.710 --> 00:40:53.869
I mean obviously you know I.
785
00:40:53.829 --> 00:40:58.030
Think his thing with John he expects everybody to be
786
00:40:58.110 --> 00:41:01.619
like him like I remember when we were younger at
787
00:41:01.699 --> 00:41:04.699
Celtic we would have a night out and John would
788
00:41:05.519 --> 00:41:07.780
you know he wouldn't or if you were going away
789
00:41:07.820 --> 00:41:11.539
with Scotland or whatever and that was always my impression
790
00:41:12.159 --> 00:41:14.800
everybody should be like him and how.
791
00:41:14.679 --> 00:41:18.460
He trains how he sit ups or press ups or whatever.
792
00:41:18.449 --> 00:41:21.289
I just I mean there was definitely an element of
793
00:41:21.349 --> 00:41:25.690
that but it it just disintegrated you know it was
794
00:41:26.489 --> 00:41:30.329
I just I mean I'm not you know like I'm
795
00:41:30.369 --> 00:41:33.190
not going to sit here and like character assassinate him
796
00:41:33.230 --> 00:41:38.000
but it didn't work I don't think his interpersonal skills
797
00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:41.860
worked don't think they were successful.
798
00:41:42.920 --> 00:41:43.260
And I think.
799
00:41:43.280 --> 00:41:44.969
Who did they have with them there?
800
00:41:45.030 --> 00:41:47.510
I think it was Tommy Craig. And I think it
801
00:41:47.530 --> 00:41:50.510
just basically, like, eventually just grated on folk. And it just,
802
00:41:50.530 --> 00:41:52.409
you know, it was bit by bit, it broke down.
803
00:41:52.429 --> 00:41:56.530
It became quite, you know, accusatory of, like, the players
804
00:41:56.789 --> 00:42:00.110
doing certain things. And boys were like, what? Like, no.
805
00:42:00.710 --> 00:42:02.639
So there was the remnants of what was there, which
806
00:42:02.679 --> 00:42:05.599
was very successful and very good. And that sort of,
807
00:42:05.800 --> 00:42:07.500
you know, took a bit of time to sort of
808
00:42:07.739 --> 00:42:08.300
wash away.
809
00:42:08.320 --> 00:42:08.679
Mm-hmm.
810
00:42:09.239 --> 00:42:12.840
They obviously won the League Cup when John was there.
811
00:42:13.139 --> 00:42:16.360
And I don't want to undermine what he... But I
812
00:42:16.380 --> 00:42:20.260
view that as... That was Mogger. That was Mogger's team.
813
00:42:20.719 --> 00:42:24.840
And it just disintegrated and fell away. I mean, I'll
814
00:42:24.860 --> 00:42:29.730
give you a quick synopsis. John had come to me
815
00:42:30.110 --> 00:42:33.010
and I just basically had signed one-year deals. I was
816
00:42:33.030 --> 00:42:37.449
there for two seasons with one-year deals. And he was
817
00:42:37.469 --> 00:42:40.539
there the second season and he'd come and said just
818
00:42:40.579 --> 00:42:44.119
prior to sort of January and said like I want
819
00:42:44.139 --> 00:42:47.380
to build the team around you I want to obviously
820
00:42:47.599 --> 00:42:50.320
new deal and I was like hey great and I
821
00:42:50.340 --> 00:42:52.969
was being honest and I said look I'm in no
822
00:42:52.989 --> 00:42:57.110
rush to geographically move I'm settled I'm happy but I
823
00:42:57.150 --> 00:42:59.190
want to basically because at this point I've had you
824
00:42:59.230 --> 00:43:02.269
know getting back into enjoying football I was like I'm
825
00:43:02.289 --> 00:43:04.650
going to take my time and see what's out there
826
00:43:04.989 --> 00:43:09.050
I'm just being my biggest thing is and I think
827
00:43:09.110 --> 00:43:13.579
he's maybe seen and know me enough that, like, I'm
828
00:43:13.599 --> 00:43:16.260
not a bullshitter. I didn't try and play games. I'm
829
00:43:16.280 --> 00:43:19.199
just quite straight. Yeah. To my fault. Because I think
830
00:43:19.219 --> 00:43:21.300
most people think, what the fuck's he up to? What's
831
00:43:21.320 --> 00:43:24.139
he working on? So, I said to him, I says, look,
832
00:43:24.340 --> 00:43:25.780
I'm just being straight with you. I'm not in a
833
00:43:25.820 --> 00:43:30.159
rush to leave. I'm happy, settled where I am, but
834
00:43:30.179 --> 00:43:34.280
I want to, like, just make sure and see what's available. Right,
835
00:43:34.300 --> 00:43:36.480
but obviously, I want to build a team range, so
836
00:43:36.500 --> 00:43:37.820
I want to, like, you know, you need to give
837
00:43:37.840 --> 00:43:40.199
me an answer. I was like, Look, what I'll do is,
838
00:43:40.489 --> 00:43:43.440
if I speak to anybody, I'll keep you informed. I'll
839
00:43:43.460 --> 00:43:45.760
let you know what's going on. Like, I'm trying to be, like,
840
00:43:45.820 --> 00:43:49.559
as fair as possible. Right, right, right. As soon as
841
00:43:49.599 --> 00:43:55.239
that meeting left, atmosphere changed completely. Within about three weeks,
842
00:43:55.260 --> 00:43:58.079
he dropped me off the team. Like, the whole, it
843
00:43:58.119 --> 00:44:01.329
was just a friction. So I genuinely believe he thought
844
00:44:01.610 --> 00:44:04.690
that I had almost, like, been speaking to people, I
845
00:44:04.929 --> 00:44:07.389
had something lined up, and I was just, like, stringing
846
00:44:07.409 --> 00:44:10.630
him along. Yeah, And I was just being straight. So
847
00:44:10.650 --> 00:44:12.889
then he changed to me. And at the time, this
848
00:44:12.949 --> 00:44:15.099
is where the whole club was falling apart as well.
849
00:44:17.920 --> 00:44:20.039
So there was definitely an atmosphere. I went to speak
850
00:44:20.079 --> 00:44:23.119
to Stoke in January. I said to them, I didn't
851
00:44:23.139 --> 00:44:24.679
want to leave because I want to finish the season
852
00:44:24.699 --> 00:44:29.639
with Hibs and that as well. And obviously, the whole
853
00:44:29.659 --> 00:44:32.949
thing blew up. He tried to position everything on me,
854
00:44:33.409 --> 00:44:36.829
even though it was the whole team. way to speak
855
00:44:36.849 --> 00:44:39.670
to the chairman but it became very comfortable and easy
856
00:44:39.730 --> 00:44:45.190
to be like and I've just I've not got I
857
00:44:45.230 --> 00:44:47.869
just like to try and be straight you know so
858
00:44:47.969 --> 00:44:49.809
yeah go back to it I'm not going to character
859
00:44:49.849 --> 00:44:54.329
assassin him but it didn't like the interpersonal skills did
860
00:44:54.449 --> 00:44:56.889
not work did not work at all and one of
861
00:44:56.929 --> 00:44:58.590
the biggest issues that a lot of folk had as
862
00:44:58.610 --> 00:45:00.989
well was and this was I think flew in the
863
00:45:01.110 --> 00:45:03.480
face of what I think the perception was because a
864
00:45:03.539 --> 00:45:06.639
lot of people thought that John's training techniques were hard
865
00:45:06.739 --> 00:45:11.059
and difficult. Folk were like, we didn't do anything. We
866
00:45:11.079 --> 00:45:13.880
just stretched for about an hour. And it was like,
867
00:45:14.019 --> 00:45:17.360
we're not working hard enough. But the perception in the
868
00:45:17.400 --> 00:45:20.500
public was the exact opposite. We were like, we're not
869
00:45:20.539 --> 00:45:24.519
doing enough. We're not actually doing enough. We're doing a
870
00:45:24.960 --> 00:45:26.380
short bit of that, stretching for an hour.
871
00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:30.239
When it comes to the game, you're not on it. Aye, aye.
872
00:45:30.889 --> 00:45:33.269
So, and at the end of that season, like I knew, obviously,
873
00:45:33.289 --> 00:45:35.010
I was like, I wanted to, well, I wasn't going
874
00:45:35.030 --> 00:45:39.619
to stay. There was a few sort of sniffs. There
875
00:45:39.639 --> 00:45:45.019
was a wee, Gordon was in at Celtic at the time, but,
876
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:49.099
and John Park, who was at Hibs, had gone to Celtic,
877
00:45:49.159 --> 00:45:51.460
and there was a few Hibs boys had gone, like
878
00:45:51.480 --> 00:45:54.019
wee Deke had gone, big Chris Kelly, remember the striker,
879
00:45:54.039 --> 00:45:57.929
had Kiwi, big Kipper had gone as well, and Gaz
880
00:45:57.949 --> 00:46:01.530
had gone previously. So there was a wee chance of that,
881
00:46:01.889 --> 00:46:06.079
but they were talking about they would need to move on, like,
882
00:46:06.179 --> 00:46:09.239
Big Yarrisick and Graveson. So they were like, we'd need
883
00:46:09.260 --> 00:46:11.659
to get them moved and off the wage bill before.
884
00:46:12.460 --> 00:46:15.280
And they were like, you know, if you can hang
885
00:46:15.320 --> 00:46:18.530
about and wait. And I was like, well, don't know, maybe.
886
00:46:18.679 --> 00:46:22.269
And in between, hearts had come back in, and I
887
00:46:22.309 --> 00:46:24.449
felt like I wanted to go back. You know, I
888
00:46:24.469 --> 00:46:27.550
felt like unfinished business and I wanted to go back.
889
00:46:28.199 --> 00:46:32.579
So I decided to go back to Hearts. And.
890
00:46:33.480 --> 00:46:34.820
Who was back manager then?
891
00:46:35.880 --> 00:46:38.760
Nobody. It was just like this void. You know, it
892
00:46:38.780 --> 00:46:43.659
was still, it was Vlad times. And there effectively wasn't
893
00:46:43.679 --> 00:46:45.739
a manager. It was mental.
894
00:46:45.780 --> 00:46:46.699
Just before Chabba?
895
00:46:47.079 --> 00:46:49.099
It was before Chabba, yeah. It was just before Chabba.
896
00:46:49.119 --> 00:46:50.599
But you were there with Chabba?
897
00:46:50.659 --> 00:46:52.760
Yeah, yeah, I was, aye. And by the way, I
898
00:46:52.800 --> 00:46:55.519
really liked Chabba. I really liked him. And he was very,
899
00:46:55.559 --> 00:47:00.969
very good. like could talk like but he was like
900
00:47:01.119 --> 00:47:04.119
Chapa was very good but this was before and it
901
00:47:04.139 --> 00:47:07.119
was just like there was nobody we went away pre-season
902
00:47:07.179 --> 00:47:10.360
and there was like still a lot of the boys
903
00:47:10.400 --> 00:47:14.489
that are you know big very good players on big
904
00:47:14.550 --> 00:47:17.469
big money but there was no manager and they had
905
00:47:17.789 --> 00:47:22.489
there was a sporting director a boy called Karabochka Anatoly
906
00:47:23.179 --> 00:47:25.480
And he didn't want to be the manager because he's
907
00:47:25.519 --> 00:47:27.599
like sort of just been the director of football.
908
00:47:27.619 --> 00:47:28.860
He was effectively taken. Aye.
909
00:47:29.099 --> 00:47:32.059
But then Shaggy, Stevie Frail was like the coach. So
910
00:47:32.099 --> 00:47:35.280
Shaggy was basically like, that's who you're sort of gravitating towards.
911
00:47:35.400 --> 00:47:38.699
And he's going like, I don't fucking know. It was
912
00:47:38.719 --> 00:47:41.800
just this void. And then this boy called Angle, who
913
00:47:41.840 --> 00:47:46.949
was a Bulgarian boy, he sort of was like parachuted
914
00:47:46.989 --> 00:47:48.730
in from nowhere to be like the manager. Didn't he
915
00:47:48.750 --> 00:47:53.949
speak English? Didn't he really? It was like, who's the
916
00:47:53.989 --> 00:47:56.230
manager and then do you remember there was a boy
917
00:47:56.250 --> 00:47:59.190
like I think a year or two previously it was
918
00:47:59.230 --> 00:48:04.110
called Edward Malafief yes right so Malafief he'd been in
919
00:48:04.150 --> 00:48:06.510
charge for like 10 games he lost them all in
920
00:48:06.550 --> 00:48:09.719
a row right but he's like a really big name
921
00:48:09.800 --> 00:48:15.039
back in Russia he was at hearts for a brief
922
00:48:15.079 --> 00:48:18.400
bit right he was an absolute lunatic right and all
923
00:48:18.440 --> 00:48:21.110
the sort of all the liths were petrified of him
924
00:48:21.760 --> 00:48:24.619
he appeared back in pre-season as well. And they were
925
00:48:24.639 --> 00:48:26.920
all just like, oh no, my God. And they were
926
00:48:26.940 --> 00:48:28.639
doing like training and they would do like, they'd just
927
00:48:28.760 --> 00:48:33.030
like play handball and tag and like wheelbarrow races. Remember like,
928
00:48:33.269 --> 00:48:36.710
remember Soccer AM? And there was like the segment of the,
929
00:48:36.829 --> 00:48:40.590
like the Eastern European subs. That was literally what pre-season
930
00:48:40.630 --> 00:48:44.469
was like. And he just used to scream Russian at
931
00:48:44.510 --> 00:48:47.650
the side of the pitch and just be like, this can't,
932
00:48:47.670 --> 00:48:52.699
this can't be. So, When Shaba came in, that was
933
00:48:52.739 --> 00:48:58.039
enjoyable because it was a good team and good manager
934
00:48:58.300 --> 00:49:00.559
and it sort of just like, you know, it clicked
935
00:49:00.599 --> 00:49:02.780
together for that period.
936
00:49:03.139 --> 00:49:05.679
See, before we kind of wrap it up, obviously we're
937
00:49:05.699 --> 00:49:07.739
not even touched on his punditry.
938
00:49:08.340 --> 00:49:08.909
His politics.
939
00:49:09.409 --> 00:49:10.190
His politics.
940
00:49:10.510 --> 00:49:14.929
Maybe for another episode. What do I want to say here? See,
941
00:49:15.210 --> 00:49:18.010
if you had your time again, I think if everybody
942
00:49:18.050 --> 00:49:19.969
had their time again, you know, you talk about your
943
00:49:20.239 --> 00:49:23.000
your parents giving you good advice and stuff and everything
944
00:49:23.039 --> 00:49:25.440
seemed to be going well till that little bit of
945
00:49:25.460 --> 00:49:29.179
uniting stuff would you look back on would you have
946
00:49:29.199 --> 00:49:30.400
done anything differently.
947
00:49:31.760 --> 00:49:32.820
Well I think it goes back to what I was
948
00:49:32.840 --> 00:49:35.230
saying before in terms of like you know I don't
949
00:49:35.289 --> 00:49:39.650
regret anything because, like, I'm happy. I'm happy. No, even then,
950
00:49:39.690 --> 00:49:41.690
because I think, like, you know, if you change something that's, like,
951
00:49:41.710 --> 00:49:44.219
sliding doors, you know, what else changes? So, no, no,
952
00:49:44.300 --> 00:49:47.039
I'm happy with where I am. If I'm looking, you know,
953
00:49:47.159 --> 00:49:50.900
exclusively at my football career, I've never done anything, you know,
954
00:49:51.420 --> 00:49:52.559
for what I feel like I could have.
955
00:49:52.579 --> 00:49:53.219
You could have done.
956
00:49:53.460 --> 00:49:55.659
No, I didn't do anything. I did nothing, you know?
957
00:49:56.340 --> 00:49:59.079
But what could I? I could have done, like, a
958
00:49:59.119 --> 00:49:59.599
load more.
959
00:50:00.000 --> 00:50:03.519
Do you think, like, maybe the guidance at that point,
960
00:50:04.019 --> 00:50:06.099
that someday... It's huge. Helped me.
961
00:50:06.320 --> 00:50:07.260
Huge.
962
00:50:07.300 --> 00:50:11.510
Because it's... I mean, your way from home, mentally, is
963
00:50:11.820 --> 00:50:12.429
hard enough.
964
00:50:12.550 --> 00:50:12.699
Yeah.
965
00:50:13.239 --> 00:50:16.429
But when everything's going well and you're playing and you're
966
00:50:16.570 --> 00:50:19.610
playing at one of the biggest clubs in the world, it's...
967
00:50:20.349 --> 00:50:20.969
Everything's there.
968
00:50:21.010 --> 00:50:22.070
You're in a bubble.
969
00:50:22.289 --> 00:50:22.449
Yep.
970
00:50:23.510 --> 00:50:26.190
You know, to have somebody there to, you know, put
971
00:50:26.210 --> 00:50:28.530
their arm around you and say, like, here's a wee bit,
972
00:50:28.550 --> 00:50:28.889
so then.
973
00:50:28.909 --> 00:50:31.530
Aye, cool. Handle all the decisions that you make.
974
00:50:31.889 --> 00:50:32.349
Aye, don't worry.
975
00:50:32.369 --> 00:50:37.519
Aye, but you're mentally... That's a lot to kind of...
976
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:38.400
My football is all mental.
977
00:50:38.659 --> 00:50:41.949
I mean, you're 21, 22-year-old. Like, you know, Chris, you
978
00:50:41.969 --> 00:50:46.349
get to this age now and you think to yourself, like,
979
00:50:46.369 --> 00:50:49.909
for men, your brain's not even fully formed. Yeah. You know,
980
00:50:49.929 --> 00:50:51.449
at that stage. So, like.
981
00:50:52.210 --> 00:50:54.409
And you're making decisions on your career.
982
00:50:54.130 --> 00:50:54.550
At the time.
983
00:50:54.610 --> 00:50:57.369
Totally. So, again, I go back to it because it
984
00:50:57.409 --> 00:51:00.389
is important, like, to recognise that the world's not going
985
00:51:00.409 --> 00:51:03.889
to end like you still have. like enjoy yourself and
986
00:51:03.909 --> 00:51:06.130
have a good life and everything like that. But in
987
00:51:06.170 --> 00:51:09.230
terms of career wise, it was, you know, separate the
988
00:51:09.269 --> 00:51:13.000
two out. This is the most important part, but obviously
989
00:51:13.039 --> 00:51:16.380
like the actual career did nothing in terms of what
990
00:51:16.659 --> 00:51:19.679
I should have, but I don't regret it because I'm happy.
991
00:51:19.599 --> 00:51:23.219
With how everything's ended up where I am. For a reason.
992
00:51:23.780 --> 00:51:26.449
What about management? Did you never fancy that? Well.
993
00:51:27.250 --> 00:51:31.659
Again, not a conscious decision. See, when I came home,
994
00:51:31.699 --> 00:51:34.260
I don't know whether it was a conscious decision either.
995
00:51:34.280 --> 00:51:36.159
It was like subconscious. It was almost like just a
996
00:51:36.199 --> 00:51:38.719
feeling of that sort of like, I need to just
997
00:51:38.739 --> 00:51:43.039
go home just now. And with management, it wasn't a
998
00:51:43.099 --> 00:51:47.039
conscious decision. It was more, I started doing badges, but
999
00:51:47.239 --> 00:51:50.840
those things are like, they take a bit of time.
1000
00:51:50.940 --> 00:51:53.059
You've got to be in the system. You've got to
1001
00:51:53.119 --> 00:51:55.840
go and work somewhere. So while I was doing that,
1002
00:51:55.960 --> 00:52:01.039
I'd started doing some sort of punditry work. And that's now.
1003
00:52:01.059 --> 00:52:02.969
So you just end up starting to do things. And
1004
00:52:03.050 --> 00:52:07.750
very quickly from doing that, it got quite sort of
1005
00:52:07.789 --> 00:52:11.929
apparent that, well, I can keep doing this and do
1006
00:52:12.010 --> 00:52:15.949
a bit more. And then without a great deal of time,
1007
00:52:15.969 --> 00:52:19.880
it was like, well, I quite enjoy this balance. I
1008
00:52:20.000 --> 00:52:22.650
started doing it just purely to... engage your brain otherwise
1009
00:52:22.690 --> 00:52:24.449
you're vegetating you're not doing it so it gives you
1010
00:52:24.469 --> 00:52:26.199
a bit of focus and you can think about things
1011
00:52:26.219 --> 00:52:28.139
and then you're involved in the game and the more
1012
00:52:28.159 --> 00:52:29.780
I think about it the more I think this is
1013
00:52:29.820 --> 00:52:32.719
actually quite good because you've still got like a finger
1014
00:52:32.760 --> 00:52:35.400
on the pulse you're still like getting that feeling for
1015
00:52:35.420 --> 00:52:37.380
the game but you're not having to deal with all
1016
00:52:37.480 --> 00:52:39.380
the shite you're not having to deal with the politics
1017
00:52:39.400 --> 00:52:41.880
of the internal football and I've got a life away
1018
00:52:41.900 --> 00:52:45.449
from football which is ideally what I think I've always
1019
00:52:45.469 --> 00:52:48.469
been trying to manufacture I.
1020
00:52:48.429 --> 00:52:50.639
Was going to say it was less stressful but You've
1021
00:52:50.659 --> 00:52:52.699
managed to get yourself banned for a couple of weeks.
1022
00:52:52.719 --> 00:52:53.440
So maybe it's not.
1023
00:52:53.619 --> 00:52:55.199
Well, there is, I mean, there is degrees. I mean,
1024
00:52:55.219 --> 00:52:57.739
don't get me wrong, there is absolutely. And not just
1025
00:52:57.780 --> 00:53:00.119
for me, it's like, you know, your family around you,
1026
00:53:00.559 --> 00:53:03.320
they've got to deal with, you know, elements of stress
1027
00:53:03.340 --> 00:53:04.019
that come from that.
1028
00:53:04.039 --> 00:53:04.639
Yeah, of course.
1029
00:53:04.719 --> 00:53:10.599
Absolutely. And there's always politics in any industry. But coaching
1030
00:53:10.639 --> 00:53:17.360
and management, it's a fraught business. It is. And it's 24-7.
1031
00:53:17.619 --> 00:53:21.469
Whereas what I do now, I've got time and space
1032
00:53:21.510 --> 00:53:23.710
to be able to, you know, I've got a young family,
1033
00:53:23.730 --> 00:53:27.469
obviously growing up, they're getting older now, but the whole
1034
00:53:27.489 --> 00:53:30.110
time I've been doing this, I've got loads of time
1035
00:53:30.150 --> 00:53:33.360
to be around them. I've got time to be able to, like,
1036
00:53:33.760 --> 00:53:36.519
I like snowboarding. I go to the Alps, like, you know,
1037
00:53:36.800 --> 00:53:39.739
every year. I like going into the, you know, up
1038
00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:43.059
north and, like, just out in the hills. I've got
1039
00:53:43.119 --> 00:53:46.179
time and space to do other things. Because if you're
1040
00:53:46.239 --> 00:53:48.210
in coaching and management, you can't do that.
1041
00:53:48.230 --> 00:53:51.670
You're immersed in it. Well, mate, you've been a great guest.
1042
00:53:51.789 --> 00:53:54.929
We've not even touched on anything else really other than football.
1043
00:53:54.949 --> 00:53:58.369
What we do is we've got recommendations from our previous guest.
1044
00:53:59.289 --> 00:54:01.590
Our previous guest was James Gardner, Comedy James. I don't
1045
00:54:01.610 --> 00:54:02.650
know if you're familiar with him.
1046
00:54:02.750 --> 00:54:03.289
I know of him.
1047
00:54:04.010 --> 00:54:07.989
And he's recommended, so we want a film off you,
1048
00:54:08.460 --> 00:54:11.099
a song and an album. So his film was Heat.
1049
00:54:11.760 --> 00:54:13.940
with De Niro and Pacino. Heat. Heat.
1050
00:54:14.079 --> 00:54:14.289
Aye, aye.
1051
00:54:14.300 --> 00:54:15.289
That's a good film, aye.
1052
00:54:15.320 --> 00:54:16.119
It's a decent film. Aye.
1053
00:54:16.260 --> 00:54:19.429
His song, which I'm not as familiar with, Rain in
1054
00:54:19.469 --> 00:54:21.750
the Summertime, Mike Peters and the Alarm.
1055
00:54:21.769 --> 00:54:25.739
I don't know. I don't know. See, I'm terrible at...
1056
00:54:25.769 --> 00:54:27.650
You're not good at music? No, I mean, I listen
1057
00:54:27.670 --> 00:54:29.349
to loads of music. Are there people who recommend it
1058
00:54:29.369 --> 00:54:31.530
to you? No, but I'm terrible at, you know, like, going, like,
1059
00:54:31.750 --> 00:54:34.539
name that tune and be like, oh, I have no idea.
1060
00:54:34.579 --> 00:54:35.940
It's one of the ones you maybe hear it and
1061
00:54:35.980 --> 00:54:39.079
recognise it. And his album was... It's more of a
1062
00:54:39.119 --> 00:54:41.179
single thing. Future Islands singles.
1063
00:54:41.659 --> 00:54:41.960
Oh, right.
1064
00:54:41.980 --> 00:54:42.539
I don't know that.
1065
00:54:42.579 --> 00:54:44.969
Again, I wasn't too familiar with that. So we're looking
1066
00:54:44.989 --> 00:54:48.030
for a film, a song and an album for our
1067
00:54:48.070 --> 00:54:48.670
next guest.
1068
00:54:50.969 --> 00:54:51.280
Here we go.
1069
00:54:51.289 --> 00:54:53.610
Right. Rather than a song and an album, I'll give
1070
00:54:53.630 --> 00:54:55.570
you a book. Right, okay. I'll give you a book.
1071
00:54:55.849 --> 00:54:58.150
I was just talking about this this morning, actually. So
1072
00:54:58.170 --> 00:55:00.010
this is what I'm going to give you. So have
1073
00:55:00.030 --> 00:55:05.510
you heard of the author Malcolm Gladwell? I haven't. So
1074
00:55:06.010 --> 00:55:06.769
one of his... Are you a reader?
1075
00:55:08.460 --> 00:55:11.820
Audio books I used to I would only read things
1076
00:55:11.900 --> 00:55:14.929
that I was really interested in like the Paul Ferris
1077
00:55:14.989 --> 00:55:20.150
conspiracy things like that or something that's real I'm no into.
1078
00:55:19.849 --> 00:55:25.650
Like fiction go on Malcolm Gladwell he's done a number
1079
00:55:25.690 --> 00:55:27.159
of books one of them one of his first ones
1080
00:55:27.199 --> 00:55:29.179
was like Tipping Point and it was all about like
1081
00:55:29.360 --> 00:55:33.099
how phenomenons become phenomenons so an idea what is the
1082
00:55:33.139 --> 00:55:35.179
tipping point that explodes it right but the one I
1083
00:55:35.199 --> 00:55:38.059
was talking about this morning was, it's called David and Goliath.
1084
00:55:38.880 --> 00:55:43.309
It's all about the underdog and how things that happen
1085
00:55:43.329 --> 00:55:48.429
to people or things like an ailment or something, but
1086
00:55:48.570 --> 00:55:52.510
there's positive benefits that come from it. For example, like
1087
00:55:52.789 --> 00:55:57.789
Jackie Stewart, heavily dyslexic, cannae read, but hyper-focused and understanding
1088
00:55:57.829 --> 00:55:59.889
on the mechanics of a car. So the way that
1089
00:55:59.909 --> 00:56:03.320
the brain functions is a little bit different. Inger Kamper,
1090
00:56:03.340 --> 00:56:07.789
who set up IKEA, Same thing, Richard Branson. So, Engler Camper,
1091
00:56:07.809 --> 00:56:13.070
when he was setting up IKEA, he basically went to Poland,
1092
00:56:13.110 --> 00:56:15.670
which was behind Iron Curtain at the time, and got
1093
00:56:15.849 --> 00:56:18.289
all his wood for the forest there. Cheaper, ship it
1094
00:56:18.329 --> 00:56:20.389
back to Sweden. But when he was doing that, people
1095
00:56:20.409 --> 00:56:23.329
were going, you can't do that. You can't go behind.
1096
00:56:23.570 --> 00:56:26.530
He was like, why? Because his brain thinks differently. So,
1097
00:56:26.550 --> 00:56:29.190
even though you wouldn't want somebody to have that, it's
1098
00:56:29.389 --> 00:56:35.110
actually a positive. So, underdog. even though David and Goliath,
1099
00:56:35.320 --> 00:56:37.659
there are ways of being able to win. Is the
1100
00:56:37.719 --> 00:56:40.260
book called David and Goliath? The book's called David and Goliath.
1101
00:56:40.619 --> 00:56:44.260
And the subheading is about the underdog and the art
1102
00:56:44.400 --> 00:56:48.670
of winning type thing. So there's a book for you.
1103
00:56:49.110 --> 00:56:52.630
And a movie. This is one I really need to
1104
00:56:52.650 --> 00:56:55.449
think about because I like movies. I like documentaries and
1105
00:56:55.469 --> 00:56:58.820
stuff like that. What's a good movie? Heat's a good one, actually.
1106
00:56:58.960 --> 00:56:59.360
Very good.
1107
00:57:04.179 --> 00:57:11.039
Scorsese's top drawer. Donnie Brasco's good.
1108
00:57:11.199 --> 00:57:12.179
Real stuff.
1109
00:57:12.239 --> 00:57:12.840
Departed.
1110
00:57:13.179 --> 00:57:13.760
There we go.
1111
00:57:13.900 --> 00:57:14.539
Departed.
1112
00:57:15.039 --> 00:57:15.239
Yeah.
1113
00:57:15.579 --> 00:57:18.489
There you go. Departed. What else can I give you?
1114
00:57:18.510 --> 00:57:21.670
What are you substituting book for? Either song or album?
1115
00:57:21.849 --> 00:57:27.550
What's your favourite song? I don't really have a.
1116
00:57:27.630 --> 00:57:34.130
Favourite song, but... Album. What can we do? Album. I
1117
00:57:34.150 --> 00:57:39.909
don't want a song. Too many good songs isn't there?
1118
00:57:40.349 --> 00:57:42.690
I was just trying to think what kind of music
1119
00:57:42.710 --> 00:57:44.409
do you think Michael would be?
1120
00:57:45.070 --> 00:57:46.949
I know you try and stereotype people.
1121
00:57:46.989 --> 00:57:48.230
What would you think?
1122
00:57:48.590 --> 00:57:53.610
I don't know. I think he'd be like Blur or something.
1123
00:57:53.699 --> 00:57:54.739
Blur would be good.
1124
00:57:55.239 --> 00:57:55.320
Aye.
1125
00:57:55.559 --> 00:57:59.099
No, there's the other one, the other wee guy, Javis Cocker.
1126
00:57:59.659 --> 00:58:00.500
Pulp? Pulp.
1127
00:58:01.199 --> 00:58:01.340
Nah.
1128
00:58:02.320 --> 00:58:04.949
See, I'm fucking hopeless at music.
1129
00:58:06.489 --> 00:58:08.710
I listen to an eclectic mix of it all, but
1130
00:58:08.730 --> 00:58:10.690
I've got to say, Blur and Pulp.
1131
00:58:11.710 --> 00:58:15.429
Nowhere near. Try it at your age as well.
1132
00:58:15.469 --> 00:58:18.949
We're more our age. We're more our age. Aye, but
1133
00:58:18.969 --> 00:58:21.889
I'm not far off. Oasis was obviously the big thing.
1134
00:58:21.949 --> 00:58:22.539
Normally Oasis were.
1135
00:58:22.480 --> 00:58:24.059
Influenced by our parents. I like a lot of....
1136
00:58:29.559 --> 00:58:31.940
Jazz and stuff like that as well aye but like
1137
00:58:32.119 --> 00:58:36.639
you know like even like funk jazz like stuff like
1138
00:58:36.659 --> 00:58:39.329
that like jamiroquai and things like that that type of
1139
00:58:39.449 --> 00:58:43.619
yeah that type of stuff jamiroquai is good yeah You
1140
00:58:43.639 --> 00:58:44.179
dressed up.
1141
00:58:44.159 --> 00:58:47.719
As him one time. Aye, was it a party?
1142
00:58:47.739 --> 00:58:49.300
Somebody fought it, didn't you?
1143
00:58:49.460 --> 00:58:51.420
It was Sam's, my missus, 30th, aye.
1144
00:58:51.440 --> 00:58:52.269
30th, was it?
1145
00:58:52.559 --> 00:58:53.480
God, I remember saying 30th.
1146
00:58:53.539 --> 00:58:55.920
I got the hat and the wee body warmer and
1147
00:58:56.000 --> 00:58:56.639
all that jeans.
1148
00:58:57.199 --> 00:58:57.599
JK. JK.
1149
00:58:57.639 --> 00:59:00.929
He didn't have a nose, but he did have a nose.
1150
00:59:01.489 --> 00:59:02.329
A bit slimmer then.
1151
00:59:02.769 --> 00:59:04.610
Mate, he's an album. Do you mind if I? There
1152
00:59:04.630 --> 00:59:05.969
you go, aye. Go with that.
1153
00:59:06.329 --> 00:59:08.429
Mate, you've been a great guest. Thanks for coming on.
1154
00:59:08.449 --> 00:59:09.150
Cheers, mate. Cheers, guys.
1155
00:59:09.170 --> 00:59:09.909
Thank you so much.