Adding Online Value To In-Person Events with Ciara Chinniah
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video1425202841: [00:00:00] Okay, so I've got 10 thousands of people on my list, maybe tens of thousands on my list. There's a women's drumming convention that happens and people fly in from all around the world, and it's like huge. It's like a movement.
Toby Goodman: How do you keep your clients engaged between in-person events? What else can you do without falling back into the trap of one-to-one time for money? And how do you ensure the high quality content you make continues to serve your business as it changes? Welcome to Not Another Business podcast with me, Toby Goodman.
My guest today is Ciara Chinniah, a working mom and professional drummer. She's been through the record deal and touring phases. More recently, she's a published author and educator, frustrated with a capped income. Ciara quit teaching in schools and started teaching privately. On her own terms. Then she made a genius move.
She started drum [00:01:00] camps for women looking for a safe space to learn, build confidence and community. She also co-hosts a brilliant podcast called Drummer Mums, aimed at bringing drumming mothers and fathers together. I'm a massive fan of it. She joins me today to talk game plan and what next and even better looks like now that she's established her business.
Toby Goodman: If you are in business and identify as pod curious, or your podcast isn't working out the way you'd hoped, I've got more for you, including episodes, my bestselling book, narrow Podcasting and Profitable Pod Method Skill Sessions. For all that and more about how I can support your business, head over to narrow podcasting.com
video1425202841: thank you for initiating this chat. Very excited because what I like about you is you seem to be talking my language in terms of business and drums and podcasting, because I feel [00:02:00] like I'm at ~like ~a place in my life where I'm really interested in business stuff and not many drummers I talk to are into that.
You're obviously an amazing teacher. You're an author. I think you still do one-to-one teaching. Is that right? Yeah. You're a parent. Then you've got this thing where you do drum camps specifically for women, and you hold space in a really safe way. And that's really interesting because A, it's great that you are doing that.
And the fact that it's drums and that's still women playing drums is still considered to be, not as much anymore, but certainly when I was coming up it was like, oh do you know any girl drummers? Like it's a weird thing and it's not weird at all.
And you are doing it now in a really cool way and especially because of what's happened in a couple of slightly shady things happened in the uk. I don't know what the word is. Exploitation or just creepy shit going on with a specific female related, [00:03:00] drum thing.
Love that you are doing it. Love that you're, the face of it,. And then you've got, this podcast Drummer Mamas with Gemma Hill. Yeah. Again, I don't know, but I know of. Talking about what it's to be a parent. What? It's to be a drummer. So good. What's next for you?
I love so much my drum camps. I just had one at the weekend and I'm still not over it. I'm still ~like, so like ~exhausted in a really good way because ~it's. I feel like ~it's more than drums. It's so emotional and about all the psychology behind learning, intertwined with being a woman and so many confidence things we can feel, and I'm sure a lot of guys feel it too, but I see a trend.
Amongst ladies who are just amazing on the drums, but don't believe in themselves. So it can be really emotional ~and so it is, it's a, ~I love it. So what's [00:04:00] next actually, is when I'm finished camps, which is the summer, I'm gonna have a break, which is gonna freak me out. I'm gonna just try and balance.
~Work life a bit better. ~I would like to do some more lessons or workshops online so people can access it online. And I'm not trading my time for money all the time, so I'm making that transition from teaching quite a lot of one-to-ones to trying to ease up a little bit.
Is my plan. And I'm also doing a retreat next year in Barcelona, drums, yoga, meditation, yeah. So that's what I'm working on. Okay. That's so good. So I said to you. James he started e bass guitar, which is about helping rookies learn how to play bass and be [00:05:00] able to do a gig in a bar.
~Great. ~Yeah. So his target market, not specifically female, but ~definitely he's ~definitely as women and ~makes people, ~I think most of his clients are in the us. Most of them have got jobs. They just wanna be able to play the bass in a band and it's all great. So he's found this market, which is pretty big.
And the way he communicates is, different to maybe his competitors, which is what makes him unique, which is the same as you. And he has a membership where he teaches, he's got hundreds of videos at this point where he teaches, how to hold a bass or what the string notes are called. Like absolutely from the start all the way up to
playing, walking baselines, what have you, and yeah, I totally see you doing that. I can totally see you being able to record certain amounts of content on the drums that people can look at. Posture, for example, or, I'm gonna sit up straight now. [00:06:00] Yeah, ~no ta, ~whatever, like technical specific stuff.
Great. You can do that. There's also loads of it already that exists. I think the thing that you have is the ability to coach them and help them and talk to them. Because you, are you in a way that they wouldn't be necessarily interested in Jared whats, his face from Drumeo talking, not because he's bad, but because there's a big difference between being, a woman who lives in the UK who's interested in yoga and all of that stuff.
~Whatever it's fine. So it's fine. ~So I think there's definitely a market for it. The fact that you've targeted specifically women is really cool and it makes you happy and it makes them happy and awesome. I love the fact that you've got a Drummer Mama's podcast, and my initial thought was a bit.
I wonder how many drummers they're gonna go through before they stop being able to find the, these women who play drums. Luckily, there are more than they used to be, as we said. But you are also speaking to dads, so I don't feel like you're [00:07:00] being exclusive. ~It's just a really nice, ~it's just a really nice vibe and I'm, like I said, I really enjoyed the episodes that I've heard so far.
So how can your podcast. Everything you do just help you get to where you want to go? And am I right in thinking that where you want to go is a membership based business where you are getting recurring subscriptions every month where people have a certain amount of access to you and maybe you're working like you do in real time on your camps with cohorts of women?
That's a good question. ~And I dunno. That's the thing sometimes with the drummer mamas, ~I think it's more about visibility in terms of having the conversations that I've always wanted to hear about. Hold on, that dude is drumming. In the West End, but hasn't he got five children? Like what how's he doing that?
Or what's the work how are they splitting roles in their family? I don't understand. Please tell me. And the same for the lady who's doing, gigging [00:08:00] with Cher or whoever, how are you doing that and your family? But I think. It is all just another way for people to get to know me, and that builds trust.
And then if people trust me, then they will more likely want to reach out to me and go, Hey, I'd really like to learn with you. So I guess that's what I've learned so far about podcasting and anything that I put online is to connect. Build trust and also, oh, what's that word? When I can show that people had a good time.
At my camps. Yeah. Show the result. Social proof. There we ~go. Proof. There you ~go. That's the social proof. And yeah I've been on a little ~so cheesy ~journey myself figuring out all of this stuff. How am I gonna do a ~drunk ~camp and how am I gonna promote that then? And how do I email people? And the first time I did an ad, I was so [00:09:00] scared 'cause I just thought, ah.
I dunno if I can swear, but I just thought, oh God, I don't want any trolls like saying I'm sexist, which I did get by the way. And then I realized, just target it to ladies. What are you doing? Funny that don't target it to men who could actually, the thing that's really annoying about right, is that if I have two, two boys, but if I had a daughter.
I'd wanna see that and I'd wanna say, Hey, you wanna learn with your old dad? Go. And, because there was that point. And my eldest son, I taught him during Covid and he got into it and he's into it. But he's definitely at the stage now where I'm his dad and I actually would love for him.
I will send him, at some point, he'll get drum lessons from someone else because. It's just better. I'm not, there's only so much of that kind of parent child dynamic that you can cope with when you're, [00:10:00] God bless anyone who homeschools not. And we all did, for a few years there. ~But ~so that's a shame that you are only targeting women, but it makes sense.
But also if I had a daughter, I. I'd wanna see those. Yeah. So target market. How would you describe your target market other than women who want to play drums or who do play drums? You seem to have two levels of camps, right? Yeah, I have a few. I've, total beginners, intermediate, advanced.
I'm gonna add intermediate to advanced next year. But what ifs. How many people are currently on your list of. Oh, so not that many. I'm just building it now. Like I remember a few years ago, I had 12 people on my list and I remember phoning my brother, 'cause my brother's really into like marketing and stuff.
He encouraged this years ago. It took me a long time to catch [00:11:00] up. I was like, bro, I've got 12 people and I don't know any of them. ~How cool. ~And he was like, yes, ~keep going. ~Keep going. So now I've got 444. ~Exactly. All women, no, the majority are right. ~. But ~if ~it is really exciting to me, like sounds so geeky, I'm really excited to build my list.
And, it's been really cool seeing it happen, and being really intentional with what I post and then seeing the list grow and it's really cool. I'm really excited to just go for it. What's ~like ~the most outrageous, you, I couldn't possibly say this 'cause I'm British. What's the most outrageous best possible thing 3, 4, 5 years down the line that could be happening?
~Like between Big American style Tony Robbins? Like what's it looking like? ~Okay, so I've got 10 thousands of people on my list, maybe tens of thousands on my list. There's a women's drumming convention that happens and people fly in from all around the world, and it's like huge.
It's like a [00:12:00] movement. And maybe I do like a crossover from drumming into. It's like self-help, like a drumming therapy, drumming talking therapy thing. ~I don't even know how, but ~I feel like there's something that ~when women are together and ~when women are together and drumming, it's so cool. So I think there's something there about unlocking your potential and being able to do something that you didn't think you could, that drumming can unlock for a lot of people.
That's what I see. Yeah. I like that drumming is, has an immediate result around, like with a saxophone or something, it can take you 10 to get a note out of it that doesn't split or sound hideous. You can yes. Get drum and it gives you something back. So love that, that you can go in on a beginner's level and teach basic time and get something going very quickly and that's why there's been drum circles and all that kind of stuff for years.
Okay. So great. So what needs to happen for [00:13:00] that? You've got a podcast with somebody else. Who seems totally cool. Here's what you're not doing. You're occasionally, but in fact, the episode I just listened to, you didn't mention it. The guest mentioned well done on your drum camps.
You're not mentioning it on your podcast. Yeah, it feels cringe. Like I, I'll tell you something, a secret, which is not gonna be a secret. I have a podcast ready on my own , and I, it is been my intention to just do a podcast on my own, which is then fully talking about. Camps teaching and ~like my, oh, my, ~like my journey through it, but also bringing people with me so then I can talk about it.
It feels a bit, maybe I'm being too British, but not right to talk about it too much because it's a shared podcast. [00:14:00] Yeah, and there is, there's some politics in there that, because you've got a cohost, you're both, the deal is. Both drummers, you're both mamas, it's so good. But I'm sure you could have the beginnings of a conversation that says, Hey, what if we both use this to grow what we're trying to do outside this podcast?
With podcasting, have you heard of a thing called Dynamic Ads? I feel like that I've heard that, but I dunno what it is. ~So this is where it's at for you guys, I think. ~Do you know, like a banner ad on a website? Yeah. And if you go back to Amazon or whatever, there'll be a, you might like this, and then the next day you might like that. So with dynamic ads on podcasts, you can record a piece of audio, which I suggest would be something like, if you are a woman who's looking to learn drums in a safe environment with other people? You are new or you just, whatever, like all the benefits of what it is that you do, [00:15:00] which, are many you might be interested to know.
My next drum camp is happening on . Go over here and find out more. That is a piece of audio that is 30 to 45 seconds long. That's dynamic. What that means is that can be placed at the front or anywhere at the middle or at the end of all of your episodes, at the touch of a button. Which means that like you just inter interviewed Derek McKenzie from Jamiroquai, who's super cool, and loads of people know who that is.
And so that episode. Just came out, I think. But people will listen to that in a year's time and that conversation will be as cool as it was when it came out because it's a rockstar session drummer talking about being a dad of three kids. The way that you can use that podcast to grow your business in a year's time is to make sure that you have dynamic ads talking about what it [00:16:00] is you do at the beginning ~or at the ~middle, or ~at the ~end.
And you can share that with your co-host, right? Gemma's got something she's working on as well. Then she can have a spot to talk about specifically what she's doing. Yes. And you can change things. ~I don't know what gemma's up to. That's cool. ~The other thing you can do, because it's such a good podcast, honestly, I think ah, thanks.
The other thing you can do is you can think about. Okay. I'm ~somebody. You are ~somebody who teaches drums, runs camps, da, so you've got a pretty clear target market. Who else who doesn't do what you do serves that target market? I don't know. I'll give you a really easy one. Okay. And I know that because I was in there the other day and I saw.
You were in there the other day as well and I'm sorry, we didn't meet each other. ~What? What am I talking about? ~Where do we both go? Even though we've never met in person before? Rubix Studios, [00:17:00] right? Yes. We go to drum shops. Yeah. So you are looking at businesses that serve the same target market and deliver a different result.
Drum shops. Yoga, like whatever, all the other stuff that you do doesn't have to be drums specifically, but anything where you talk about it, and I know that you've got a bit of, you've got deals with Sonor, and a few other things going on that's so good. That's an they would want exposure.
If you are starting playing and you want a low volume kit for your da, da, dah. You might wanna check out this drum set from such and such. Those people or those shops ~or those yoga mat manufacturers ~want access to people who you've built trust from. And because the host Red Ad in podcasting is so strong, American DJs.
~Radios ~did it for years, and we didn't do it in the uk. It was always some kind of highly produced thing, whereas you'd [00:18:00] have traditional American radio having the host read the, this is brought to you by this. ~Yes, ~that is a transfer of trust, and because you've built trust, that will be very appealing to partners.
So that's another way of bringing money in. ~How do you. ~How do you approach those people? ~What's your, have you have, ~you ~already got, you've ~already got a relationship with at least one or two drum manufacturers. ~Yeah. ~So ~you've, ~you don't need to approach them, do you? You could just say, this is what I'm doing.
Would you like to try ~And, ~because of the dynamic ads, here's the other super sexy thing about dynamic ads ~is you can say. ~It doesn't have to be ~like ~a massive amount of money, ~right? It's all, ~it's about the time. ~So ~you can say, I'm going to do an ad for either the entire brand or, talk about with their marketing department what they're trying to push.
Is it a beginner drumstick or is it a, launch of a new kit, whatever it is. What are you working on? Would it be useful to you [00:19:00] if we trialed three months of ads on my podcast that speaks to this target market and see how it goes? And they'll say, that sounds interesting. Tell me more.
~But you will. ~They call, ~do it like work, ~work out what the thing is, put it on, and then in three months it's gone. And then there's FOMO for those guys because you can sell that space to a competitor or it can be replaced by something else. So you're not signing a lifetime of putting, I love this product on everything you've ever done because of how cool that technology is.
I love it. Is that useful? Yeah, it's totally useful. So I lo I love that for you because you can use it for your own stuff. IE your camps and your, what's coming up in your membership that you're gonna launch where people don't need more stuff. If I wanted to learn how to play [00:20:00] Rosanna, I could go on YouTube and watch 500 drummers Show me how to play Rosanna.
Yeah. But I want you to teach me how to play it. 'cause I like how you communicate and I connect with how you teach. That's literally it. It's interesting isn't it? I was having a conversation with my other brother 'cause I am a Tony Robbins fan. Been to loads of seminars. ~Have you?~
Yeah. ~And, ~he said to me, oh, let's go see Tony again. Let's do it. And I was like, yeah, I'm, I do love him still, but I actually really love listening to all these ladies. ~I. ~Who are kicking ass because they're where I'm at and ~he, ~as I've gotten older, it is really become apparent.
I love him. He's so inspirational, motivating, and all the rest of it, but he's not living my experience so much as these ladies are. And it's the same thing with teaching. ~It's, I dunno, ~you're drawn to someone [00:21:00] who is most like yourself sometimes. 'cause you're like, if they're doing it, then I could, so check this out. I worked with, a guy called Howard Cooper, who's a lovely dude. He lives in North London. He's a, therapist and a hypnotherapist, really interesting guy. Did some work with him on his podcast years and years ago, and he'd done all that as well. And he said, Tony Robbins changed my life.
And he said, but not in the way you'd expect. I, he went to a thing. He said, I went to a thing. And I left thinking, how the hell did he do that? And then I made it my life's mission to work out the techniques he was using to, get in his own like thousands of people. And then he also told me about this thing that I think you may have gone through, and he said, have you heard of the Tony Robbins effect?
Have you heard of the Tony Robbins effect? No. He said someone coined it. It's what happens when you go and see Tony Robbins and you are so pumped because he's [00:22:00] amazing and he does all this stuff and whatever, and then the next day you wake up and go, oh shit, I'm not Tony Robbins. ~'cause you're back in your little half thing.~
And that's the problem. And you've just described that because you've said what you are finding inspiring is where people are today. ~Isn't. Owning Fiji or whatever. He, this guy's it's insane. It's great and good on him and ~he's obviously very good at what he does. Yes.
~And there's controversy and whatever. Like he doesn't care about me and he's not listening to my podcast, whatever. ~He's an absolute master, but he isn't somebody. Living in North London, like exactly like ahead, but not so far ahead. They're flying around in private jets. 'cause you want tactical help if you know what you, yes.
Because you want, we all wanna be inspired and we all wanna be motivated by people who are super, super amazing. We also need an element of tactical help that says, okay, so you've got 444 people on your list. How do we double it? What's the lifetime value of a customer? What are you saying to them? Like as soon as you said, I've just done a.
I've just finished one of my, one of my camps. [00:23:00] It was amazing. It was amazing. And whatever you said at the beginning, immediately, like I wanted to ask you about follow up and what your retention strategy is and what the rebooking is like. What have you said to them when they're in that moment? Because that moment is going to, over the course of time, dilute. And at the moment, you've got a chance now within the next couple of, I'm not saying don't take a break, 'cause clearly you want to take a break, but there's a moment after you've delivered a show, as a drummer on a gig, or if you've delivered an amazing lesson or masterclass or whatever, where people are buzzing because of how the experience was. And that's the moment where you say, do you want to come to Barcelona? It's 10% off this weekend. ~Yeah. ~Before I release it to the rest of the people. That make sense? Oh totally. That's super tactical. That's not step into your true self. That's actually [00:24:00] a super tactical thing that you could do to grow your business.
So when I, I see all this stuff you're doing and I'm so excited. ~Yeah. What's. ~What's coming out for you for this conversation? 'cause I'm throwing like, everything at you now.
I feel like I'm just on the beginning with all of this and it's exciting, but it's also can feel a bit like, oh my God, there's so much to learn.
~And so yeah. ~For me I'm like, okay, when it's just after a camp. I, my main thing is get a review now. Yeah. Because they're buzzing. So that's what I do. I'm like, give me, if you can get gimme a review, that'd be great. So then I can show it and it's good social proof. And then, yeah, I don't have much follow up.
We have a private Facebook group that I invite everyone to. And so that's cool. And then how I do the camps is I will just release ~the ~all of the dates for next year. So [00:25:00] it's a bit weird this time because in October I. I'm gonna release them all again for next year. And usually everyone's she's releasing the tickets quick get on.
And it's really exciting. How many people are in the Facebook group then? 65. Okay, so that, so 444 65. Do you do the pre, do you do the early bird? To my members? Yes. Yeah. So you'd say I'm releasing them. That's super cool. Yes. And for the retreat, that's what we're doing too. We've got like a three step thing where it's like super keen people.
~Yeah. ~Telling in secret. It's the secret launch. ~Yeah. ~And then it's just the camp ladies launch and then it'll be. And then do you have anything that incentivizes them to tell a friend? No, I do not. So even if you think about, especially if you're [00:26:00] doing paid ads and you are thinking about, and you do the maths on cost per, the cost per acquisition of client, right?
~Of customer or whatever. ~It's probably less than save 25, 50, a hundred quid on this thing when you refer a friend using this code. 'cause paid ads, especially early on in a business, are pretty dangerous. They're like a bit of a money suck. ~Hell yeah. ~Those super loyal fans, who would literally walk over coles ~to, ~to work, learn with you rather than anyone else. They're the people who are your best salespeople. So yes, to get a referral because you are, but then you are still putting it out, you are still maybe even paying for an ad where someone's saying, she changed my life. Of course, do that stuff, but also help them to help you because your biggest fans will do anything[00:27:00]
to make sure that camp is happening again, because you can afford to run the thing. ~Yeah. Do you know what I mean? ~Yeah. I love that. So definitely that's something I'd look at. Okay. The other thing that is, it's not like a massive problem, but the thing that I'd be a little bit aware of is the Facebook group thing.
~Yeah. ~Because of the fact that you don't own it. And the main thing, you own the email addresses of those people. So if something happens to Facebook, it gets closed down or some nightmare person makes a complaint and then they turn it off. ~You know you Yes. Vibe. ~So it might be worth at some point, owning your own community platform where people log in.
Yes. And the problem with Facebook also is because it is Facebook. It's easy to get distracted and click on something else and then you're into your feed and not in the thing. And I think one of the most valuable things about what you do, and I [00:28:00] think what I do to be honest, is hold space for your clients and your customers.
So to say, we are over here on this app, or we've got, there's a private link and it's away from the noise of Facebook really speaks to what you are doing as well. I like that at some point. Not urgent, but I might also look at that because those things aren't that expensive anymore. They used to be really expensive.
They're not. But the value add is massive. Like the perceived value add for the, yeah. So the other things you've heard this phrase, I'm sure that I like to use a lot, the low. Low cost, high value. Cost to you? High value to them. ~Yeah. ~So when you give them a t-shirt or a pair of sticks, when they come in, they get a little care package I've seen.
~'cause it may, I'm like a, I'm at a wedding, whatever. It's just a little gift, but ~it makes people feel so welcome [00:29:00] and you wanna maintain that feeling throughout the year between camps, ~the. ~I think you're way further along than you are, and I think you could speak to people who are running massive memberships who are still nervous about doing in person.
~So there's, okay. There's people that kind of, oh, hide. Hide behind my screen. ~So I love that you started there and you are moving into online. But we can learn so many lessons from Covid about how people don't want to be online as much anymore ~more. ~They wanna be out in the world playing drums and hanging out ~in, in, ~in person together.
~So I love the hybrid. ~I love what you've built. I'm just so buzzing for that partner thing and making sure that. The podcast or maybe podcasts that you have, if you're about to launch another one, make your life easier, not noisier, because they're all feeding the same goal, which is you are gonna have a massive convention.
Go look at Tony [00:30:00] Robbins, like if you want that dream, then ~what? ~What that means is you need other women teaching for you. That scares me a little bit, ~level. ~But you can be somebody who is a drummer, a great communicator, someone who understands the basics of breathing and yoga or what have you, and all the specific things maybe people who are trauma informed counselors or, there are a few things that you could get that make up. What one of your specific. Instructors does. And they could be going ~all year round, all around. All, yeah. ~All year round. All around the world. And you wouldn't necessarily always have to be there.
Yeah. And that's a business that can run itself. And that potentially you can sell if you need to or if you want to. For whatever reason, that might come down the track because life. I like that. ~I need that to simmer in my head and maybe have a follow up chat, but I like it. ~Yeah, good. I'm so happy. ~And then there's here's another thing that I'll give I'll, that occurs as well.~
Do [00:31:00] you know what the 10 x rule is? No, I've heard it called the 10 x rule. The 10 x rule seems to be law of nature in business that if all for all of your customers, clients, whatever, if you have one thing that is 10 times the price of your main thing, 10% of your audience will buy it or clients will buy it.
So Mike Makalowitz. Wrote a book called Profit First. I think he uses the Starbucks ~as a ~as an example. And the Starbucks example is this, in most flagship Starbucks around the world, in the big cities, you can buy a coffee machine for five, 600 quid. Because occasionally someone walks in and goes, shit, I've forgotten to buy my friend a birthday present.
Or Oh yeah, they're just big time, but they just buy a coffee machine while everyone else is going in and spending five quid [00:32:00] on, on a latte.
What it does is it also is a kind of price anchoring, which is, " wow, if they coffee machines, their coffee must be really good". So then you just get more. "If she does a retreat in Barcelona, those drum camps in North London must be awesome". So just by showing people that you sell this other thing.
Now imagine what that's like with coaching and mentoring packages online. ~Okay? ~You pay X for this, and every month we do an ask me anything, and I put out a couple of drum lessons that you get access to first, and you ask me questions. 10% of you're gonna want my personal help. I've got a ~five ~five person group.
You're gonna be in the same ability level, technically. And we're gonna, ~we're gonna ~go deep, twice a month for an hour peer to peer support. And [00:33:00] I'm just gonna be in the room a bit more. 'cause this isn't about how to play the Roseanna shuffle anymore. No. How to cope with the fact that you've just been asked to count it in and you only got half an hour to learn it ~or what, ~or whatever the ~Yeah.~
Problem is that happens when you're out in the world playing music. Oh shit. And there's no childcare for the gig. You've just been offered. And how'd you ~do that? Yes, ~do that. So the 10 x thing's really interesting because that also helps you think tactically about. Becoming ~the ~the British female drumming Tony Robbins in a real way.
I love it. What's been most useful so far? I, it's how it's messaging. Messaging has been the most useful because you are affirming what I've been thinking about.
And just by having something that flows through the podcast that makes sense, that shows people what I'm doing. [00:34:00] The dynamic ads is oh God, yeah, it just makes sense. ~What am I doing? ~Even if it's, only 10 people listening or whatever, it's really important to put those things in place. 'cause you're right, I don't know who's gonna be listening in six months or a year, and if I don't have any like call to action or just, hello, this is me and what I'm doing, then.
How can I expect to it to grow or my audience to grow? Yeah. We built something amazing, we forgot to tell about it. Classic creative move. Yeah. I feel like I've got a creative brain. Yeah. Not business brain. Great yet. You have got a business brain. A hundred percent. The classic phrase, every, probably every conversation I have, like the best marketing phrase in the world, enter the conversation that's already going on in their mind.
Yeah. With, I'm a woman, I don't wanna be feeling awkward about learning how to [00:35:00] play and dealing with everything that comes with being, this and that. The other, if only there was someone who I could go to and spend a couple of days with like-minded women. Guess what?
That's exactly what you do. Yes. ~Yeah. ~ Thank you so much. That was super helpful.
Buzzing.
Toby Goodman: Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please give it a five star review and share it with someone you think it would help. If you are a business owner considering podcasting, or you are not getting the results you wanted from the podcast you have, I've got more episodes, a bestselling book, narrow Podcasting and Profitable Pod Method Skill Sessions, all designed to help you where you are right now.
For all of that and how I can support your business, head over to narrow podcasting.com
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video1425202841: [00:00:00] Okay, so I've got 10 thousands of people on my list, maybe tens of thousands on my list. There's a women's drumming convention that happens and people fly in from all around the world, and it's like huge. It's like a movement.
Toby Goodman: How do you keep your clients engaged between in-person events? What else can you do without falling back into the trap of one-to-one time for money? And how do you ensure the high quality content you make continues to serve your business as it changes? Welcome to Not Another Business podcast with me, Toby Goodman.
My guest today is Ciara Chinniah, a working mom and professional drummer. She's been through the record deal and touring phases. More recently, she's a published author and educator, frustrated with a capped income. Ciara quit teaching in schools and started teaching privately. On her own terms. Then she made a genius move.
She started drum [00:01:00] camps for women looking for a safe space to learn, build confidence and community. She also co-hosts a brilliant podcast called Drummer Mums, aimed at bringing drumming mothers and fathers together. I'm a massive fan of it. She joins me today to talk game plan and what next and even better looks like now that she's established her business.
Toby Goodman: If you are in business and identify as pod curious, or your podcast isn't working out the way you'd hoped, I've got more for you, including episodes, my bestselling book, narrow Podcasting and Profitable Pod Method Skill Sessions. For all that and more about how I can support your business, head over to narrow podcasting.com
video1425202841: thank you for initiating this chat. Very excited because what I like about you is you seem to be talking my language in terms of business and drums and podcasting, because I feel [00:02:00] like I'm at ~like ~a place in my life where I'm really interested in business stuff and not many drummers I talk to are into that.
You're obviously an amazing teacher. You're an author. I think you still do one-to-one teaching. Is that right? Yeah. You're a parent. Then you've got this thing where you do drum camps specifically for women, and you hold space in a really safe way. And that's really interesting because A, it's great that you are doing that.
And the fact that it's drums and that's still women playing drums is still considered to be, not as much anymore, but certainly when I was coming up it was like, oh do you know any girl drummers? Like it's a weird thing and it's not weird at all.
And you are doing it now in a really cool way and especially because of what's happened in a couple of slightly shady things happened in the uk. I don't know what the word is. Exploitation or just creepy shit going on with a specific female related, [00:03:00] drum thing.
Love that you are doing it. Love that you're, the face of it,. And then you've got, this podcast Drummer Mamas with Gemma Hill. Yeah. Again, I don't know, but I know of. Talking about what it's to be a parent. What? It's to be a drummer. So good. What's next for you?
I love so much my drum camps. I just had one at the weekend and I'm still not over it. I'm still ~like, so like ~exhausted in a really good way because ~it's. I feel like ~it's more than drums. It's so emotional and about all the psychology behind learning, intertwined with being a woman and so many confidence things we can feel, and I'm sure a lot of guys feel it too, but I see a trend.
Amongst ladies who are just amazing on the drums, but don't believe in themselves. So it can be really emotional ~and so it is, it's a, ~I love it. So what's [00:04:00] next actually, is when I'm finished camps, which is the summer, I'm gonna have a break, which is gonna freak me out. I'm gonna just try and balance.
~Work life a bit better. ~I would like to do some more lessons or workshops online so people can access it online. And I'm not trading my time for money all the time, so I'm making that transition from teaching quite a lot of one-to-ones to trying to ease up a little bit.
Is my plan. And I'm also doing a retreat next year in Barcelona, drums, yoga, meditation, yeah. So that's what I'm working on. Okay. That's so good. So I said to you. James he started e bass guitar, which is about helping rookies learn how to play bass and be [00:05:00] able to do a gig in a bar.
~Great. ~Yeah. So his target market, not specifically female, but ~definitely he's ~definitely as women and ~makes people, ~I think most of his clients are in the us. Most of them have got jobs. They just wanna be able to play the bass in a band and it's all great. So he's found this market, which is pretty big.
And the way he communicates is, different to maybe his competitors, which is what makes him unique, which is the same as you. And he has a membership where he teaches, he's got hundreds of videos at this point where he teaches, how to hold a bass or what the string notes are called. Like absolutely from the start all the way up to
playing, walking baselines, what have you, and yeah, I totally see you doing that. I can totally see you being able to record certain amounts of content on the drums that people can look at. Posture, for example, or, I'm gonna sit up straight now. [00:06:00] Yeah, ~no ta, ~whatever, like technical specific stuff.
Great. You can do that. There's also loads of it already that exists. I think the thing that you have is the ability to coach them and help them and talk to them. Because you, are you in a way that they wouldn't be necessarily interested in Jared whats, his face from Drumeo talking, not because he's bad, but because there's a big difference between being, a woman who lives in the UK who's interested in yoga and all of that stuff.
~Whatever it's fine. So it's fine. ~So I think there's definitely a market for it. The fact that you've targeted specifically women is really cool and it makes you happy and it makes them happy and awesome. I love the fact that you've got a Drummer Mama's podcast, and my initial thought was a bit.
I wonder how many drummers they're gonna go through before they stop being able to find the, these women who play drums. Luckily, there are more than they used to be, as we said. But you are also speaking to dads, so I don't feel like you're [00:07:00] being exclusive. ~It's just a really nice, ~it's just a really nice vibe and I'm, like I said, I really enjoyed the episodes that I've heard so far.
So how can your podcast. Everything you do just help you get to where you want to go? And am I right in thinking that where you want to go is a membership based business where you are getting recurring subscriptions every month where people have a certain amount of access to you and maybe you're working like you do in real time on your camps with cohorts of women?
That's a good question. ~And I dunno. That's the thing sometimes with the drummer mamas, ~I think it's more about visibility in terms of having the conversations that I've always wanted to hear about. Hold on, that dude is drumming. In the West End, but hasn't he got five children? Like what how's he doing that?
Or what's the work how are they splitting roles in their family? I don't understand. Please tell me. And the same for the lady who's doing, gigging [00:08:00] with Cher or whoever, how are you doing that and your family? But I think. It is all just another way for people to get to know me, and that builds trust.
And then if people trust me, then they will more likely want to reach out to me and go, Hey, I'd really like to learn with you. So I guess that's what I've learned so far about podcasting and anything that I put online is to connect. Build trust and also, oh, what's that word? When I can show that people had a good time.
At my camps. Yeah. Show the result. Social proof. There we ~go. Proof. There you ~go. That's the social proof. And yeah I've been on a little ~so cheesy ~journey myself figuring out all of this stuff. How am I gonna do a ~drunk ~camp and how am I gonna promote that then? And how do I email people? And the first time I did an ad, I was so [00:09:00] scared 'cause I just thought, ah.
I dunno if I can swear, but I just thought, oh God, I don't want any trolls like saying I'm sexist, which I did get by the way. And then I realized, just target it to ladies. What are you doing? Funny that don't target it to men who could actually, the thing that's really annoying about right, is that if I have two, two boys, but if I had a daughter.
I'd wanna see that and I'd wanna say, Hey, you wanna learn with your old dad? Go. And, because there was that point. And my eldest son, I taught him during Covid and he got into it and he's into it. But he's definitely at the stage now where I'm his dad and I actually would love for him.
I will send him, at some point, he'll get drum lessons from someone else because. It's just better. I'm not, there's only so much of that kind of parent child dynamic that you can cope with when you're, [00:10:00] God bless anyone who homeschools not. And we all did, for a few years there. ~But ~so that's a shame that you are only targeting women, but it makes sense.
But also if I had a daughter, I. I'd wanna see those. Yeah. So target market. How would you describe your target market other than women who want to play drums or who do play drums? You seem to have two levels of camps, right? Yeah, I have a few. I've, total beginners, intermediate, advanced.
I'm gonna add intermediate to advanced next year. But what ifs. How many people are currently on your list of. Oh, so not that many. I'm just building it now. Like I remember a few years ago, I had 12 people on my list and I remember phoning my brother, 'cause my brother's really into like marketing and stuff.
He encouraged this years ago. It took me a long time to catch [00:11:00] up. I was like, bro, I've got 12 people and I don't know any of them. ~How cool. ~And he was like, yes, ~keep going. ~Keep going. So now I've got 444. ~Exactly. All women, no, the majority are right. ~. But ~if ~it is really exciting to me, like sounds so geeky, I'm really excited to build my list.
And, it's been really cool seeing it happen, and being really intentional with what I post and then seeing the list grow and it's really cool. I'm really excited to just go for it. What's ~like ~the most outrageous, you, I couldn't possibly say this 'cause I'm British. What's the most outrageous best possible thing 3, 4, 5 years down the line that could be happening?
~Like between Big American style Tony Robbins? Like what's it looking like? ~Okay, so I've got 10 thousands of people on my list, maybe tens of thousands on my list. There's a women's drumming convention that happens and people fly in from all around the world, and it's like huge.
It's like a [00:12:00] movement. And maybe I do like a crossover from drumming into. It's like self-help, like a drumming therapy, drumming talking therapy thing. ~I don't even know how, but ~I feel like there's something that ~when women are together and ~when women are together and drumming, it's so cool. So I think there's something there about unlocking your potential and being able to do something that you didn't think you could, that drumming can unlock for a lot of people.
That's what I see. Yeah. I like that drumming is, has an immediate result around, like with a saxophone or something, it can take you 10 to get a note out of it that doesn't split or sound hideous. You can yes. Get drum and it gives you something back. So love that, that you can go in on a beginner's level and teach basic time and get something going very quickly and that's why there's been drum circles and all that kind of stuff for years.
Okay. So great. So what needs to happen for [00:13:00] that? You've got a podcast with somebody else. Who seems totally cool. Here's what you're not doing. You're occasionally, but in fact, the episode I just listened to, you didn't mention it. The guest mentioned well done on your drum camps.
You're not mentioning it on your podcast. Yeah, it feels cringe. Like I, I'll tell you something, a secret, which is not gonna be a secret. I have a podcast ready on my own , and I, it is been my intention to just do a podcast on my own, which is then fully talking about. Camps teaching and ~like my, oh, my, ~like my journey through it, but also bringing people with me so then I can talk about it.
It feels a bit, maybe I'm being too British, but not right to talk about it too much because it's a shared podcast. [00:14:00] Yeah, and there is, there's some politics in there that, because you've got a cohost, you're both, the deal is. Both drummers, you're both mamas, it's so good. But I'm sure you could have the beginnings of a conversation that says, Hey, what if we both use this to grow what we're trying to do outside this podcast?
With podcasting, have you heard of a thing called Dynamic Ads? I feel like that I've heard that, but I dunno what it is. ~So this is where it's at for you guys, I think. ~Do you know, like a banner ad on a website? Yeah. And if you go back to Amazon or whatever, there'll be a, you might like this, and then the next day you might like that. So with dynamic ads on podcasts, you can record a piece of audio, which I suggest would be something like, if you are a woman who's looking to learn drums in a safe environment with other people? You are new or you just, whatever, like all the benefits of what it is that you do, [00:15:00] which, are many you might be interested to know.
My next drum camp is happening on . Go over here and find out more. That is a piece of audio that is 30 to 45 seconds long. That's dynamic. What that means is that can be placed at the front or anywhere at the middle or at the end of all of your episodes, at the touch of a button. Which means that like you just inter interviewed Derek McKenzie from Jamiroquai, who's super cool, and loads of people know who that is.
And so that episode. Just came out, I think. But people will listen to that in a year's time and that conversation will be as cool as it was when it came out because it's a rockstar session drummer talking about being a dad of three kids. The way that you can use that podcast to grow your business in a year's time is to make sure that you have dynamic ads talking about what it [00:16:00] is you do at the beginning ~or at the ~middle, or ~at the ~end.
And you can share that with your co-host, right? Gemma's got something she's working on as well. Then she can have a spot to talk about specifically what she's doing. Yes. And you can change things. ~I don't know what gemma's up to. That's cool. ~The other thing you can do, because it's such a good podcast, honestly, I think ah, thanks.
The other thing you can do is you can think about. Okay. I'm ~somebody. You are ~somebody who teaches drums, runs camps, da, so you've got a pretty clear target market. Who else who doesn't do what you do serves that target market? I don't know. I'll give you a really easy one. Okay. And I know that because I was in there the other day and I saw.
You were in there the other day as well and I'm sorry, we didn't meet each other. ~What? What am I talking about? ~Where do we both go? Even though we've never met in person before? Rubix Studios, [00:17:00] right? Yes. We go to drum shops. Yeah. So you are looking at businesses that serve the same target market and deliver a different result.
Drum shops. Yoga, like whatever, all the other stuff that you do doesn't have to be drums specifically, but anything where you talk about it, and I know that you've got a bit of, you've got deals with Sonor, and a few other things going on that's so good. That's an they would want exposure.
If you are starting playing and you want a low volume kit for your da, da, dah. You might wanna check out this drum set from such and such. Those people or those shops ~or those yoga mat manufacturers ~want access to people who you've built trust from. And because the host Red Ad in podcasting is so strong, American DJs.
~Radios ~did it for years, and we didn't do it in the uk. It was always some kind of highly produced thing, whereas you'd [00:18:00] have traditional American radio having the host read the, this is brought to you by this. ~Yes, ~that is a transfer of trust, and because you've built trust, that will be very appealing to partners.
So that's another way of bringing money in. ~How do you. ~How do you approach those people? ~What's your, have you have, ~you ~already got, you've ~already got a relationship with at least one or two drum manufacturers. ~Yeah. ~So ~you've, ~you don't need to approach them, do you? You could just say, this is what I'm doing.
Would you like to try ~And, ~because of the dynamic ads, here's the other super sexy thing about dynamic ads ~is you can say. ~It doesn't have to be ~like ~a massive amount of money, ~right? It's all, ~it's about the time. ~So ~you can say, I'm going to do an ad for either the entire brand or, talk about with their marketing department what they're trying to push.
Is it a beginner drumstick or is it a, launch of a new kit, whatever it is. What are you working on? Would it be useful to you [00:19:00] if we trialed three months of ads on my podcast that speaks to this target market and see how it goes? And they'll say, that sounds interesting. Tell me more.
~But you will. ~They call, ~do it like work, ~work out what the thing is, put it on, and then in three months it's gone. And then there's FOMO for those guys because you can sell that space to a competitor or it can be replaced by something else. So you're not signing a lifetime of putting, I love this product on everything you've ever done because of how cool that technology is.
I love it. Is that useful? Yeah, it's totally useful. So I lo I love that for you because you can use it for your own stuff. IE your camps and your, what's coming up in your membership that you're gonna launch where people don't need more stuff. If I wanted to learn how to play [00:20:00] Rosanna, I could go on YouTube and watch 500 drummers Show me how to play Rosanna.
Yeah. But I want you to teach me how to play it. 'cause I like how you communicate and I connect with how you teach. That's literally it. It's interesting isn't it? I was having a conversation with my other brother 'cause I am a Tony Robbins fan. Been to loads of seminars. ~Have you?~
Yeah. ~And, ~he said to me, oh, let's go see Tony again. Let's do it. And I was like, yeah, I'm, I do love him still, but I actually really love listening to all these ladies. ~I. ~Who are kicking ass because they're where I'm at and ~he, ~as I've gotten older, it is really become apparent.
I love him. He's so inspirational, motivating, and all the rest of it, but he's not living my experience so much as these ladies are. And it's the same thing with teaching. ~It's, I dunno, ~you're drawn to someone [00:21:00] who is most like yourself sometimes. 'cause you're like, if they're doing it, then I could, so check this out. I worked with, a guy called Howard Cooper, who's a lovely dude. He lives in North London. He's a, therapist and a hypnotherapist, really interesting guy. Did some work with him on his podcast years and years ago, and he'd done all that as well. And he said, Tony Robbins changed my life.
And he said, but not in the way you'd expect. I, he went to a thing. He said, I went to a thing. And I left thinking, how the hell did he do that? And then I made it my life's mission to work out the techniques he was using to, get in his own like thousands of people. And then he also told me about this thing that I think you may have gone through, and he said, have you heard of the Tony Robbins effect?
Have you heard of the Tony Robbins effect? No. He said someone coined it. It's what happens when you go and see Tony Robbins and you are so pumped because he's [00:22:00] amazing and he does all this stuff and whatever, and then the next day you wake up and go, oh shit, I'm not Tony Robbins. ~'cause you're back in your little half thing.~
And that's the problem. And you've just described that because you've said what you are finding inspiring is where people are today. ~Isn't. Owning Fiji or whatever. He, this guy's it's insane. It's great and good on him and ~he's obviously very good at what he does. Yes.
~And there's controversy and whatever. Like he doesn't care about me and he's not listening to my podcast, whatever. ~He's an absolute master, but he isn't somebody. Living in North London, like exactly like ahead, but not so far ahead. They're flying around in private jets. 'cause you want tactical help if you know what you, yes.
Because you want, we all wanna be inspired and we all wanna be motivated by people who are super, super amazing. We also need an element of tactical help that says, okay, so you've got 444 people on your list. How do we double it? What's the lifetime value of a customer? What are you saying to them? Like as soon as you said, I've just done a.
I've just finished one of my, one of my camps. [00:23:00] It was amazing. It was amazing. And whatever you said at the beginning, immediately, like I wanted to ask you about follow up and what your retention strategy is and what the rebooking is like. What have you said to them when they're in that moment? Because that moment is going to, over the course of time, dilute. And at the moment, you've got a chance now within the next couple of, I'm not saying don't take a break, 'cause clearly you want to take a break, but there's a moment after you've delivered a show, as a drummer on a gig, or if you've delivered an amazing lesson or masterclass or whatever, where people are buzzing because of how the experience was. And that's the moment where you say, do you want to come to Barcelona? It's 10% off this weekend. ~Yeah. ~Before I release it to the rest of the people. That make sense? Oh totally. That's super tactical. That's not step into your true self. That's actually [00:24:00] a super tactical thing that you could do to grow your business.
So when I, I see all this stuff you're doing and I'm so excited. ~Yeah. What's. ~What's coming out for you for this conversation? 'cause I'm throwing like, everything at you now.
I feel like I'm just on the beginning with all of this and it's exciting, but it's also can feel a bit like, oh my God, there's so much to learn.
~And so yeah. ~For me I'm like, okay, when it's just after a camp. I, my main thing is get a review now. Yeah. Because they're buzzing. So that's what I do. I'm like, give me, if you can get gimme a review, that'd be great. So then I can show it and it's good social proof. And then, yeah, I don't have much follow up.
We have a private Facebook group that I invite everyone to. And so that's cool. And then how I do the camps is I will just release ~the ~all of the dates for next year. So [00:25:00] it's a bit weird this time because in October I. I'm gonna release them all again for next year. And usually everyone's she's releasing the tickets quick get on.
And it's really exciting. How many people are in the Facebook group then? 65. Okay, so that, so 444 65. Do you do the pre, do you do the early bird? To my members? Yes. Yeah. So you'd say I'm releasing them. That's super cool. Yes. And for the retreat, that's what we're doing too. We've got like a three step thing where it's like super keen people.
~Yeah. ~Telling in secret. It's the secret launch. ~Yeah. ~And then it's just the camp ladies launch and then it'll be. And then do you have anything that incentivizes them to tell a friend? No, I do not. So even if you think about, especially if you're [00:26:00] doing paid ads and you are thinking about, and you do the maths on cost per, the cost per acquisition of client, right?
~Of customer or whatever. ~It's probably less than save 25, 50, a hundred quid on this thing when you refer a friend using this code. 'cause paid ads, especially early on in a business, are pretty dangerous. They're like a bit of a money suck. ~Hell yeah. ~Those super loyal fans, who would literally walk over coles ~to, ~to work, learn with you rather than anyone else. They're the people who are your best salespeople. So yes, to get a referral because you are, but then you are still putting it out, you are still maybe even paying for an ad where someone's saying, she changed my life. Of course, do that stuff, but also help them to help you because your biggest fans will do anything[00:27:00]
to make sure that camp is happening again, because you can afford to run the thing. ~Yeah. Do you know what I mean? ~Yeah. I love that. So definitely that's something I'd look at. Okay. The other thing that is, it's not like a massive problem, but the thing that I'd be a little bit aware of is the Facebook group thing.
~Yeah. ~Because of the fact that you don't own it. And the main thing, you own the email addresses of those people. So if something happens to Facebook, it gets closed down or some nightmare person makes a complaint and then they turn it off. ~You know you Yes. Vibe. ~So it might be worth at some point, owning your own community platform where people log in.
Yes. And the problem with Facebook also is because it is Facebook. It's easy to get distracted and click on something else and then you're into your feed and not in the thing. And I think one of the most valuable things about what you do, and I [00:28:00] think what I do to be honest, is hold space for your clients and your customers.
So to say, we are over here on this app, or we've got, there's a private link and it's away from the noise of Facebook really speaks to what you are doing as well. I like that at some point. Not urgent, but I might also look at that because those things aren't that expensive anymore. They used to be really expensive.
They're not. But the value add is massive. Like the perceived value add for the, yeah. So the other things you've heard this phrase, I'm sure that I like to use a lot, the low. Low cost, high value. Cost to you? High value to them. ~Yeah. ~So when you give them a t-shirt or a pair of sticks, when they come in, they get a little care package I've seen.
~'cause it may, I'm like a, I'm at a wedding, whatever. It's just a little gift, but ~it makes people feel so welcome [00:29:00] and you wanna maintain that feeling throughout the year between camps, ~the. ~I think you're way further along than you are, and I think you could speak to people who are running massive memberships who are still nervous about doing in person.
~So there's, okay. There's people that kind of, oh, hide. Hide behind my screen. ~So I love that you started there and you are moving into online. But we can learn so many lessons from Covid about how people don't want to be online as much anymore ~more. ~They wanna be out in the world playing drums and hanging out ~in, in, ~in person together.
~So I love the hybrid. ~I love what you've built. I'm just so buzzing for that partner thing and making sure that. The podcast or maybe podcasts that you have, if you're about to launch another one, make your life easier, not noisier, because they're all feeding the same goal, which is you are gonna have a massive convention.
Go look at Tony [00:30:00] Robbins, like if you want that dream, then ~what? ~What that means is you need other women teaching for you. That scares me a little bit, ~level. ~But you can be somebody who is a drummer, a great communicator, someone who understands the basics of breathing and yoga or what have you, and all the specific things maybe people who are trauma informed counselors or, there are a few things that you could get that make up. What one of your specific. Instructors does. And they could be going ~all year round, all around. All, yeah. ~All year round. All around the world. And you wouldn't necessarily always have to be there.
Yeah. And that's a business that can run itself. And that potentially you can sell if you need to or if you want to. For whatever reason, that might come down the track because life. I like that. ~I need that to simmer in my head and maybe have a follow up chat, but I like it. ~Yeah, good. I'm so happy. ~And then there's here's another thing that I'll give I'll, that occurs as well.~
Do [00:31:00] you know what the 10 x rule is? No, I've heard it called the 10 x rule. The 10 x rule seems to be law of nature in business that if all for all of your customers, clients, whatever, if you have one thing that is 10 times the price of your main thing, 10% of your audience will buy it or clients will buy it.
So Mike Makalowitz. Wrote a book called Profit First. I think he uses the Starbucks ~as a ~as an example. And the Starbucks example is this, in most flagship Starbucks around the world, in the big cities, you can buy a coffee machine for five, 600 quid. Because occasionally someone walks in and goes, shit, I've forgotten to buy my friend a birthday present.
Or Oh yeah, they're just big time, but they just buy a coffee machine while everyone else is going in and spending five quid [00:32:00] on, on a latte.
What it does is it also is a kind of price anchoring, which is, " wow, if they coffee machines, their coffee must be really good". So then you just get more. "If she does a retreat in Barcelona, those drum camps in North London must be awesome". So just by showing people that you sell this other thing.
Now imagine what that's like with coaching and mentoring packages online. ~Okay? ~You pay X for this, and every month we do an ask me anything, and I put out a couple of drum lessons that you get access to first, and you ask me questions. 10% of you're gonna want my personal help. I've got a ~five ~five person group.
You're gonna be in the same ability level, technically. And we're gonna, ~we're gonna ~go deep, twice a month for an hour peer to peer support. And [00:33:00] I'm just gonna be in the room a bit more. 'cause this isn't about how to play the Roseanna shuffle anymore. No. How to cope with the fact that you've just been asked to count it in and you only got half an hour to learn it ~or what, ~or whatever the ~Yeah.~
Problem is that happens when you're out in the world playing music. Oh shit. And there's no childcare for the gig. You've just been offered. And how'd you ~do that? Yes, ~do that. So the 10 x thing's really interesting because that also helps you think tactically about. Becoming ~the ~the British female drumming Tony Robbins in a real way.
I love it. What's been most useful so far? I, it's how it's messaging. Messaging has been the most useful because you are affirming what I've been thinking about.
And just by having something that flows through the podcast that makes sense, that shows people what I'm doing. [00:34:00] The dynamic ads is oh God, yeah, it just makes sense. ~What am I doing? ~Even if it's, only 10 people listening or whatever, it's really important to put those things in place. 'cause you're right, I don't know who's gonna be listening in six months or a year, and if I don't have any like call to action or just, hello, this is me and what I'm doing, then.
How can I expect to it to grow or my audience to grow? Yeah. We built something amazing, we forgot to tell about it. Classic creative move. Yeah. I feel like I've got a creative brain. Yeah. Not business brain. Great yet. You have got a business brain. A hundred percent. The classic phrase, every, probably every conversation I have, like the best marketing phrase in the world, enter the conversation that's already going on in their mind.
Yeah. With, I'm a woman, I don't wanna be feeling awkward about learning how to [00:35:00] play and dealing with everything that comes with being, this and that. The other, if only there was someone who I could go to and spend a couple of days with like-minded women. Guess what?
That's exactly what you do. Yes. ~Yeah. ~ Thank you so much. That was super helpful.
Buzzing.
Toby Goodman: Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed the episode, please give it a five star review and share it with someone you think it would help. If you are a business owner considering podcasting, or you are not getting the results you wanted from the podcast you have, I've got more episodes, a bestselling book, narrow Podcasting and Profitable Pod Method Skill Sessions, all designed to help you where you are right now.
For all of that and how I can support your business, head over to narrow podcasting.com
