00:00:05
Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside territory file territory networks, Cubs podcast. I'm Sahadev Sharma with my partner, Patrick Mooney. We are your Cubs beat writers over at the athletic Patrick. It is time for a mailbag episode. And after Wednesday night where the Cubs have been swept by the Milwaukee Brewers, uh, who continue to dominate the NL central, who just are, um, a level above the Cubs, at least in the regular season. there is plenty of frustration about that game and that series and just the differences in the organization. And I think it kind of, it's kind of perfect to talk about it in that, just in that context, Cubs versus Brewers, because it does address like it does address like the overall issues with the Cubs as well. The Cubs are not a terror. I think it's important to say like the Cubs aren't terrible. The Cubs are a playoff quality team. Uh, this isn't like a, an utter disaster. Uh, this is a really difficult moment in the season happening at a terrible time, but this is still a playoff quality team, whether they blow this and, and, and fall out of the playoff race, which has suddenly become possible is something we can, we'll see over the next two weeks. But, uh, Last night's game brought about some doubters of Craig Council, right? It happened on Monday night, and that's what the first question is here. Jamie Weiss wants to know, what possible reason would Council have for pinch-hitting a rookie with one MLB hit for a guy that crushed a big double off their closer the night before?
00:01:53
Speaker 2: I don't know if you have thoughts on this, Patrick.
00:01:56
Speaker 1: I can give you what I immediately— looked up when, when this happened and what I wanted to know and what I thought of. But I'm curious if you were, if, if you have thoughts on like what your takeaway was seeing that.
00:02:11
Speaker 3: No, I want to hear, uh, your, your, your research. I'm assuming this is a Carson Kelly, uh, reference.
00:02:19
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, so Carson Kelly, so what, the situation BJ Murray jr.
00:02:25
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:02:26
Speaker 1: BJ Murray jr. Pinch hit for Carson Kelly. The Cubs are down eight to one come back and it's eight to six Abner Abner Uribe is in the game. Now they forced the closer in the game of a game. That was a blowout in the ninth inning. Two outs man on BJ Murray comes in to face Abner Uribe pinch hits for Carson Kelly. Carson Kelly had a big double yesterday off Trevor McGill. It, So first of all, why did Craig Council do that? He had a very simple answer. Abner Uribe has, you know, like righties or have a 370 OPS against Abner Uribe. He completely dominates righties. It's not like, uh, there's just not much of a debate there. Like, uh, You can say, then why didn't he pinch hit for Nico Horner earlier? Well, it wasn't a situation then. It wasn't a game then. It wasn't close then. And also, you have to pick the right spot. You can't pinch hit for everyone. That said, why didn't he pinch hit for Carson Kelly the night before? Well, Carson Kelly was the pinch hitter in that situation.
00:03:43
Speaker 2: And also.
00:03:44
Speaker 1: Trevor McGill is a different pitcher and he has reverse splits. It just isn't a close decision. Now, I think the question is, why did it should just be like, is it smart to put the that rookie that has one hit in there? I don't care who it is, whether it's Carson Kelly, whoever, like, you know, a right hander that struggled. whoever, is it smart to put this rookie that barely has any at-bats? I think the quick answer would be he's on the roster. If he's on the roster and he's the left-handed hitter that you have available, either he shouldn't be on the roster because you're just like, if you're not going to call upon him, then he shouldn't be on the roster.
00:04:31
Speaker 2: He's there. You got to call upon him.
00:04:34
Speaker 1: And immediately, the second I saw him on deck, I thought of this situation. It was 2023. It was July 3rd, 2023. bases loaded, one out, Brewers down by three in like the seventh or eighth inning at Milwaukee. Craig Council pinch hits Jesse Winker. Ross counters by bringing in a lefty, Anthony Kaye. Council immediately pinch hits Jemai Jones. Jemai Jones... Hadn't had a major league at bat in two years. I remember thinking like, this is insane. He's bringing in a guy that hasn't had a major league at bat in two years. Jeremiah Jones gets a basing clearing double. And Cubs fans are ranting and raving. This is why Craig Council is a master manager. He's out thinking David Ross. He did exactly what he wanted him to. He didn't do exactly what he wanted him to. He just was playing the percentages. He brought a righty in. Of course you want Jesse Winker up there over Jemai Jones. Jesse Winker is a veteran. And Jemai Jones is a guy that hadn't had a bat in two years. So it like, he's just going to do this. I'm not saying that he nailed the Jemai Jones move in the BJ Murray move was brilliant as well. I'm just saying he's going to play the percentages here. It's as simple as Abner Uribe dominates righties. Like it's not like close lefties had like a six 50 OPS, not great, but still double almost, you know, nearly double what, what they hit, what did they do against what he does against righties? It, It was like a no-win situation. The bench had been depleted. That's who you have available. I just don't think that's.
00:06:29
Speaker 2: I get it.
00:06:30
Speaker 1: It's frustrating to see B.J. Murray up there when the guy's never done it. Had a big moment in the big leagues and Carson Kelly just had a big hit.
00:06:38
Speaker 2: But I just.
00:06:40
Speaker 1: Don't... You can't manage off your gut. You gotta go with the numbers.
00:06:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, also don't be down seven runs in the ninth inning.
00:06:51
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:06:51
Speaker 4: Then your decisions will look better. But it was a good question. I was curious about that myself, so I'm with Jamie on that one.
00:06:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it looks terrible. It's terrible optics. Like, I see BJ Murray, and I immediately turn to.
00:07:05
Speaker 2: Our buddy Jesse. I'm like, Jesse, look who's on deck. Because he wasn't paying attention fully. He was like, man, they're coming back. This is crazy.
00:07:11
Speaker 1: And then he looks, he's like, what the hell is going on? You know, he was shocked, too. uh, it, it was a shocking thing to see. I can't deny that, but I, I also get the move. Like you gotta, gotta use the guys that you have. Like, and that's the percentage play. I, I also get the counter argument that it's like, he has no experience.
00:07:34
Speaker 2: Is that really the percentage play?
00:07:36
Speaker 1: We could, we could debate this forever. I, but I under like counsel, this is what counsel does. And I gave you the example of why, like, you know, from the past, uh, how he does it.
00:07:46
Speaker 2: Look, we're going to get these questions.
00:07:48
Speaker 1: We've gotten these questions forever, Patrick, and we're going to keep getting this question, I think, whenever the Cubs play the Brewers. Are people in the Cubs organization as frustrated as Cubs fans are with continually getting embarrassed by the Brewers year in and year out? That's from Justin Dvorak. What do you got, Patrick?
00:08:06
Speaker 4: Definitely frustrated. Definitely embarrassed.
00:08:09
Speaker 3: I think that is what makes this Brewers rivalry so interesting from our perspective is because you gotta be thinking there are people in the Cubs organization, uh, who look at the payroll disparity and are like, what, what is going on? Why are they lapping us in this regard when we're spending roughly a hundred million more? Sometimes it fluctuates, but you know, the years change, the budgets change and the brewers still, uh, are on top.
00:08:44
Speaker 4: Of the Cubs.
00:08:45
Speaker 3: I think it is becoming the story of this season.
00:08:52
Speaker 4: I obviously Pete's MVP season as.
00:08:56
Speaker 3: Well, but you know, the Cubs are riding pretty high when they, when the Brewers came into Wrigley early this season and they swept them. And, you know, I had a Cubs player, you know, in hindsight, look back on it and say, you know, we weren't, quite at full strength, not making excuses now, but like, that's how, you know, you have to put context around, you know, some of these series and, you know, you see what happens at the end of the year, um, you know, both at Wrigley, uh, and up in Milwaukee. And like, there's just no doubt that they are the better team. And, you know, if the Cubs somehow, uh, make the playoffs and win a first round and wind up playing Milwaukee, maybe they have a chance to sort of change the narrative here. But right now, it just really in all areas makes the Cubs look lesser than. Obviously, Council's history in Milwaukee, they have not slowed down since he left the way they draft. the way they develop the way they cultivate pitching uh the way they bring in international players um.
00:10:11
Speaker 4: Just outstanding uh across the board.
00:10:15
Speaker 1: Uh i would I would say this, I'd say organizationally, it's clear the Brewers are better. Like when top to bottom, when you're looking at the full organization, are they light years ahead currently at the major league level? I think the difference is pitching. And I think that's obvious. And that's, that's part of the organizational part that I'm talking about. But I don't think they're light. I know they're 10 games ahead. I know, I know they're, they're, they're, they're the better team right now. record wise, there's no doubt. I don't think the Cubs, I think the Cubs have closed the gap talent wise at the major league level.
00:10:55
Speaker 2: Uh, am I concerned about the future? Like 2028? Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:00
Speaker 1: Uh, 20 what's.
00:11:02
Speaker 2: What's Carter's year? 2031. Yeah. The brewers still look better. Um, like they, they have a bright future.
00:11:11
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can say that about the Cubs and, Uh, I think they have a good core here. They have a good group of players, but the lack of pitching development is a concern. We're going to keep talking about this. This is a, there's more questions about this and, and it's just, it's an issue and it's something that has to be addressed. And I, but I will say like the Cubs aren't just like there's, there's not as big of a gap as far as current major league teams. I do not think that the brewers are just like, how can the Cubs compete with them? Uh, it, And I did feel like that a couple years ago. The Cubs have closed the gap there, major league level, but pitching's a problem right now, especially the bullpen. And then there's just moments where the Brewers just do the little things. The Cubs did play a sloppy series. I think they made two errors yesterday that led to runs. That doesn't normally happen with this group, but it was Nico Horner at shortstop and Pedro Ramirez at second. Both great defenders, but these things happen. Let's take a quick break, Patrick, and then come back and take more questions.
00:12:25
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00:12:44
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00:12:47
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00:13:02
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00:13:25
Speaker 1: Okay, let's see what this next question is. Okay, do you think it's time... Jed and Carter revised their method of building a bullpen on the cheap. I think there's a multiple levels to this. We're going to touch on a different part of it, uh, later in the episode, but, um, no, I, I don't. I think they, they actually go back to leaning into that because the guys they spent on, uh, Phil Maton and Hunter Harvey didn't work. Like they, That's the reason the bullpen's bad, because they invested in guys and they haven't done anything this season. Like, Maton was bad and hurt. Harvey was hurt. Like, they got nothing out of these guys. And you can make the argument that they should have spent on established guys, but we've talked about this a lot, Patrick, but go look at the list. Pete Fairbanks, Devin Williams, Edwin Diaz, none of them had good seasons. They were either hurt or ineffective or both. There are other names. Robert Suarez, great season for when he was on the mound.
00:14:34
Speaker 2: He was hurt.
00:14:34
Speaker 1: He's been hurt a lot. If you want to say they should have traded for someone like Duran or Mason Miller last deadline, you know, 2025 deadline, I'll listen.
00:14:46
Speaker 2: To that argument.
00:14:46
Speaker 1: The overpay for those guys pay way too much. I don't think they could have gotten Mason Miller. They didn't have the talent. Maybe they could have gotten Duran, someone like David Bednar. Maybe that's the argument. pay up for one of those guys a year and a half ago uh but spending in free agency on on relievers is a crapshoot and a really bad idea and it often doesn't work i know there's frustration right now and you want uh some dominant reliever in there that that kind of cleans up all these messes I just like it over and over and over again. It's proven that spending big on relievers does not work. There is another answer to this that I, the problem goes deeper than this.
00:15:36
Speaker 2: It is not spending though.
00:15:38
Speaker 3: I would argue that they have revised it already, whether it's the May time deal, I've given up Moises by Asteros and Mason McGuire for Ryan Zephyr. John, obviously you have to be right when you, push those resources in that direction that obviously Maiton did not work out this year.
00:16:02
Speaker 4: Zephyr John we'll see.
00:16:03
Speaker 3: It's been kind of spotty thus far, but even if he was.
00:16:08
Speaker 4: Awesome right now, he'd still have to prove it in these small samples in the biggest games of the year.
00:16:17
Speaker 3: And whether or not it's time, I would have to think that you're looking at potentially five free agents walking from your rotation at the end of the year. So whatever money you got, whatever prospects you got are probably going to be pushed towards the rotation, which I think everyone agrees is kind of what you.
00:16:44
Speaker 4: Have to do.
00:16:45
Speaker 3: So I don't– I honestly haven't looked too closely at the free agent relievers coming up. I just know how many free agent starters they're going to have to acquire. And so I think what you'll see again is basically what they did with Andrew Kittredge. I believe it was a $ 9 million club option for this year. They sent him back to the Orioles, which I believe negated... like a million dollar buyout, whatever, whether it's eight or nine million dollars, whatever you're kind of looking at, the Cubs viewed it as, well, we'd rather take eight shots on relievers at one million per versus the eight or nine million dollars on Andrew.
00:17:35
Speaker 4: Kittredge's, say, mid-30s season.
00:17:40
Speaker 3: I don't know if he's 35, 36, but just that idea of they think they can keep finding guys. I think They sort of have this year, even.
00:17:50
Speaker 4: Though they're running out of guys now.
00:17:52
Speaker 3: But, yeah, more Ryan Rollison's, more Trent Thornton's, obviously Jacob Webb's.
00:18:00
Speaker 4: So I think that's probably the way, though.
00:18:02
Speaker 3: And we'll see, too, whatever economic system comes out of these labor negotiations as well.
00:18:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you're listening to this answer right now and screaming about the obvious thing that we're leaving out, player development, we'll address that in a moment. There's more questions coming. Mike McElwee asks about help coming for the bullpen. Shelby Miller, Jackson Wiggins, is anyone coming to save them? This seems pretty brutal right now. It does seem pretty brutal right now.
00:18:37
Speaker 2: So, okay, this is.
00:18:39
Speaker 1: This is the most frustrating thing when watching bullpen struggle. You just think it's going to last forever and that these guys stink and that they cannot pitch and that they're unusable.
00:18:51
Speaker 2: I'll say this. I'm concerned about Daniel Palencia. He's getting no swing and miss.
00:18:56
Speaker 1: Guys are not. He's not missing bats. I'm a little concerned about that. I think Ryan Zephyr John is taking baby steps forward. I think you need like a big step. to kind of like start feeling comfortable with them.
00:19:10
Speaker 2: Jacob Webb. It was two weeks ago that he was.
00:19:15
Speaker 1: On like a 25 inning run, scoreless run. That was probably a little lucky, you know, I shouldn't say probably a little lucky. There was probably a little luck involved in that.
00:19:29
Speaker 2: Good luck.
00:19:30
Speaker 1: He's on a terrible run now, including three, You know, two out to two run homers that all either won or tied a game in the bottom of the ninth inning. That is a little bit of bad luck, too. So, like, he needs to even out here. he needs to kind of get the luck back on his side he needs to execute better some of these pitches are terrible um he bad pitches he's got to execute better um and like, so you need to correct some of these guys that you have. Uh, I think field bars actually looked a lot better of late. I know they, he was on the mound when they lost Tuesday night. I didn't think he looked terrible. He got the big out and Bowers, um, Shelby Miller is probably going to be here at some point in the next week. Like a, like a week from now, Shelby Miller's probably on the roster. I would think you got to give him a shot. I, you know, um, I don't think Jackson Wiggins is coming up here. He doesn't have enough time to prove himself. Like it just, it's unlikely. Justin Steele, maybe, um, can he like, how much can he pitch? How, uh, how's the stuff actually looking? Um, after that, is there Edward Cabrera? Maybe like, I'm just not loving what I'm seeing at triple a from him, but it's maybe it, maybe it'll work. Uh, and then you also have to consider like, where are the spots for these guys? Like you send down Javier Assad, I guess for Shelby Miller. And then like, like, are you just getting rid of guys and are you comfortable doing that?
00:21:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess.
00:21:11
Speaker 3: Could you option Palencia? I mean, um, man, you need options. I mean, from my understanding, like you option a guy, uh, that still sort of carries over into October, I believe. I think there, there's some consideration there as well of sort of like, if you option a guy, when can you get them back? And I do think Palencia is a guy that they, that they need. Cause he just represents something different. And when he's on, he's been a lot better, but yeah, no one's coming to save them. Maybe Shelby Miller surprises us. It'd be a really cool story. He does have, really electric stuff and a really interesting backstory.
00:21:57
Speaker 4: But again, I think you underwent Tommy John at this time last year. So like it's asking a lot.
00:22:06
Speaker 1: It's they're in a rough situation. Like everyone has imploded. Everyone is struggling. Like it's like I said, maybe you could make the argument that Zephyr John is taking steps forward and deal bar is looking better. Ryan Rolison has been solid. Um, I did ask Craig Council about Aaron Savali. Do you change his role? Talk to Aaron Savali about, you know, would you be, could you be.
00:22:31
Speaker 2: Used more often?
00:22:32
Speaker 1: And I think Craig gave the diplomatic answer without saying that I don't know if I can use him twice in three days. He basically said he's in a role that he can thrive in right now. And it's an important role. Eating, he ate five innings. His point was, He had five innings over the span of five games. Relievers don't do that that often. I think it was about five games because he closed out Friday's win in Miami, and then it was two innings in a tie game on Tuesday. I think he's moving him into more high leverage moments.
00:23:11
Speaker 2: He looks good.
00:23:12
Speaker 1: I don't know if he feels like he can do like, the eighth inning on a Tuesday, the eighth inning on a Thursday and a Friday. Like, can he do that? I don't like, there's no history of him doing that. So it's tough to, to throw that on his plate suddenly. I, you know, and he has a role that he's doing well and I get counsel's point there, but I mean, that's, and he had a question about, do you put Colin Ray in high leverage situations? Like, I think the questions are taught, like are giving us answers about like how desperate this situation is.
00:23:49
Speaker 2: Colin Ray's not a high leverage reliever. Like I, Colin Ray's a really nice.
00:23:53
Speaker 1: Depth starter, like your seventh starter, your sixth starter when injuries hit and he, and he needs to start. It's just a, it's gotten to a point where it's like, how did this happen so quickly of like, You just don't have answers. Remember two weeks ago we were talking about they have so many guys coming and things are looking okay. The bullpen isn't a mess, but hey, they have reinforcements coming. That Ben Brown setback. At least he could stabilize some things. Yeah, this is a problem. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk more pitching.
00:24:33
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00:25:11
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00:25:34
Speaker 2: All right.
00:25:35
Speaker 1: One last question, and it is from a regular Tyler Dershowell. Do the Cubs have an evaluation problems in terms of long-term pitching in the bullpen? Feels like the constant reloading year after year doesn't happen comparatively to the Brewers.
00:25:53
Speaker 2: Your thoughts, Patrick?
00:25:57
Speaker 7: Yes, I think.
00:26:00
Speaker 1: Simple answer.
00:26:01
Speaker 4: Yeah, like the Brewers do have, you know, different.
00:26:06
Speaker 3: Circumstances in terms of some of the trades they make that if i think if the cubs made certain trades like that uh they would rightly get crushed for doing that um i gotta look up is this the time where one of theo's old quotes about you know the cardinals and brewers getting extra draft picks and bigger and the uh you know uh equivalent uh signing bonus increases um I was looking at Tyler's question and thinking like baseball shuts down.
00:26:41
Speaker 4: Whatever it is, the night of December 1st or December 2nd.
00:26:45
Speaker 3: I think this has got to be like the project of every single pitcher that you can talk to because they're not the guys in the system who are not on the 40 man. I think it's kind of going all in on that and trying to ring more out of what you have. We've seen, these advances in technology and examples of how pitchers can improve in certain areas over with certain programs. I think you have to do kind of a top to bottom reevaluation of, you know, how comes to de-emphasize scouts over the years. They've turned up the models really high. They've had, you know, some changes behind the scenes. I'm not saying that to like point blame or say like, Oh my God, you know, Craig Breslow left and what are they going to do? Like, but I mean, Breslow had a big imprint on it. Obviously Tyler Zombros has influence on it. I think the Cubs continue to draft hitters who quickly become assets. I think they're pitching at the major league level overall has been, pretty good year over year. But just all of it, we even talked about kind of healthcare and the injuries that have happened. I think that's something that has to be evaluated. Again, not saying blaming some like trainer at the lower level, but more of just like, okay, how can they get better in all of these areas to try to catch up to the brewers.
00:28:36
Speaker 1: Uh you look at the brewers i'm just looking at some of their best relievers uh trevor mcgill you know he was with the cubs and he and he struggled mightily but this is like typical type of pickup that the cubs would have that that has worked for them in the past like you're cycling through like different guys with talent that haven't clicked yet um they they let them go too early it happens i mean they sometimes take advantage of guys that Other teams let go. Sometimes the 40-man churn bites you. Aaron Ashby, draft pick. Abner Uribe, international free agent. Shane Drohan is the Freddie Peralta trade.
00:29:19
Speaker 2: It's a trade.
00:29:19
Speaker 1: I don't know which one. Boston, it was a Boston trade. It was that big trade with Boston. They got Kyle Harrison, right?
00:29:32
Speaker 2: Uh, Chad Patrick. Yeah.
00:29:33
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, Chad Patrick, uh, draft pick, I believe, or no, he was a small trade deal.
00:29:39
Speaker 2: Hall, another trade.
00:29:41
Speaker 1: They just have– they make these– they make trades that the Cubs, like you said, can't get away with. But it's also draft picks and international– like Abner Uribe is an international free agent. Like the Cubs don't have– you know, a lot of success stories in international free agency right now. They don't have a lot of like just pitching success stories with draft and development. Like this is a focus. And I, you know, I, they're going to be more changes made. They're going to be more adjustments made. It is. Like you said, I don't want to put it just on Breslau, but Breslau felt like it was going in the right direction. And now it felt like they've taken two steps back and, and, uh, Zombrow has a huge say.
00:30:26
Speaker 2: In these things. I think VP of pitching is his title, right?
00:30:29
Speaker 1: That was a Breslau's title before he became assistant GM. Uh, he like, he needs to start making a big imprint here. And like, can it be a quick like turnaround? Is there like, obviously he, uh, I mean, Dan Kantrovitz, uh, mentioned him multiple times when talking about the draft is a big imprint of the draft. He like, Talent acquisition is also a big part of his job. He's going to have a lot of say in how things are done. Can he turn things around? I think it's a problem. I don't know how quickly these things can change, but the fact that I think in an ideal world, maybe you have one big money reliever and then You have like a bunch of dice rolls on cheaper guys.
00:31:27
Speaker 2: You have a bunch of dice rolls on NRIs.
00:31:29
Speaker 1: And you have four Jackson Wiggins at AA and AAA instead of one. And hope two of them click over the course of the year and you can call upon them. Hope two of the NRIs click. Hope two of the $ 1. 5 million Jacob Webb signings click. And then you have your big money guy that you're supposed to trust.
00:31:49
Speaker 2: That's how you– Yeah, that's what you need.
00:31:51
Speaker 1: And then you have more depth and hope like guys develop over the course of the season and you continue the churn of like picking guys up and and cycling through different guys on the 40 man.
00:32:01
Speaker 2: It didn't work this year.
00:32:02
Speaker 1: And, you know, and all the the like grabbing of NRIs that that can't stop.
00:32:08
Speaker 2: And that's and I do not think spending money is the answer.
00:32:11
Speaker 1: It's development. It's drafting and development. You have to have more pitching in the system.
00:32:16
Speaker 2: They do not.
00:32:17
Speaker 1: They do not have enough pitching in the system. It is a major problem, and we have been talking about this since– I mean, come on. This has been an issue since 2011. They had some blips there. There was– I mean, obviously, Justin Steele, Albert Alzulay, Javier Asad. There's some others I'm missing, like Porter Hodge briefly. you know, like you've had some blips where you've been like, okay, there's like, I'm seeing more talent come at least. I'm seeing more guys that they drafted or developed or a bit in the system for a long time that they made tweaks to.
00:32:56
Speaker 4: That.
00:32:57
Speaker 1: There's something's working here and it's just not like, there's not enough there.
00:33:01
Speaker 2: It's not there.
00:33:02
Speaker 1: It stopped again. And, and you know, like Jed talked about it last winter, he was frustrated with it last winter. And, and, And my guess is it's going to be a huge point of focus.
00:33:17
Speaker 2: It already is.
00:33:18
Speaker 1: So, you know, it has to change. There's just like, you know, Tyler's right. The Brewers are much better at it.
00:33:26
Speaker 2: And I'll say this. This is my last thing on it.
00:33:29
Speaker 1: You want to talk about everything different between the Cubs and the Brewers. The Brewers do a lot of things differently. The difference is the pitching.
00:33:36
Speaker 2: That's it.
00:33:37
Speaker 1: Like the Cubs have the better offense. The Cubs have the better defense. pitching is not close. It is not close. And that has been the difference. And it's so important and it's cost them games and it's cost them the division. And you really hope it doesn't cost them a playoff spot because this is.
00:33:55
Speaker 2: A really talented team. Great offense, great defense.
00:33:57
Speaker 1: When you have like elite areas, two really important areas you're elite at, you just hope they can like things can come together over these final weeks and they can get like a stable pitching. And then you kind of put it together and get creative in the, in the post season. But woof, like this is, this has been a, like the.
00:34:19
Speaker 2: Gap does seem big.
00:34:20
Speaker 1: I get the frustration from fans. Uh, All right, we will be back next week. We'll see if we're talking about better things. They need to get some wins against, it's the Pirates, right? The Pirates this weekend coming to town. Then some tough ones against the Atlanta Braves. We'll see how they do against them, but we'll be talking to you soon. Thanks so much for watching, listening. This is Northside Territory. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe. Subscribe to the YouTube channel and subscribe to The Athletic where Patrick and I are on top of all things Cubs. Thanks for listening and watching, everyone. Take care.
Speaker 1: Welcome into Northside territory file territory networks, Cubs podcast. I'm Sahadev Sharma with my partner, Patrick Mooney. We are your Cubs beat writers over at the athletic Patrick. It is time for a mailbag episode. And after Wednesday night where the Cubs have been swept by the Milwaukee Brewers, uh, who continue to dominate the NL central, who just are, um, a level above the Cubs, at least in the regular season. there is plenty of frustration about that game and that series and just the differences in the organization. And I think it kind of, it's kind of perfect to talk about it in that, just in that context, Cubs versus Brewers, because it does address like it does address like the overall issues with the Cubs as well. The Cubs are not a terror. I think it's important to say like the Cubs aren't terrible. The Cubs are a playoff quality team. Uh, this isn't like a, an utter disaster. Uh, this is a really difficult moment in the season happening at a terrible time, but this is still a playoff quality team, whether they blow this and, and, and fall out of the playoff race, which has suddenly become possible is something we can, we'll see over the next two weeks. But, uh, Last night's game brought about some doubters of Craig Council, right? It happened on Monday night, and that's what the first question is here. Jamie Weiss wants to know, what possible reason would Council have for pinch-hitting a rookie with one MLB hit for a guy that crushed a big double off their closer the night before?
00:01:53
Speaker 2: I don't know if you have thoughts on this, Patrick.
00:01:56
Speaker 1: I can give you what I immediately— looked up when, when this happened and what I wanted to know and what I thought of. But I'm curious if you were, if, if you have thoughts on like what your takeaway was seeing that.
00:02:11
Speaker 3: No, I want to hear, uh, your, your, your research. I'm assuming this is a Carson Kelly, uh, reference.
00:02:19
Speaker 1: Well, I mean, so Carson Kelly, so what, the situation BJ Murray jr.
00:02:25
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:02:26
Speaker 1: BJ Murray jr. Pinch hit for Carson Kelly. The Cubs are down eight to one come back and it's eight to six Abner Abner Uribe is in the game. Now they forced the closer in the game of a game. That was a blowout in the ninth inning. Two outs man on BJ Murray comes in to face Abner Uribe pinch hits for Carson Kelly. Carson Kelly had a big double yesterday off Trevor McGill. It, So first of all, why did Craig Council do that? He had a very simple answer. Abner Uribe has, you know, like righties or have a 370 OPS against Abner Uribe. He completely dominates righties. It's not like, uh, there's just not much of a debate there. Like, uh, You can say, then why didn't he pinch hit for Nico Horner earlier? Well, it wasn't a situation then. It wasn't a game then. It wasn't close then. And also, you have to pick the right spot. You can't pinch hit for everyone. That said, why didn't he pinch hit for Carson Kelly the night before? Well, Carson Kelly was the pinch hitter in that situation.
00:03:43
Speaker 2: And also.
00:03:44
Speaker 1: Trevor McGill is a different pitcher and he has reverse splits. It just isn't a close decision. Now, I think the question is, why did it should just be like, is it smart to put the that rookie that has one hit in there? I don't care who it is, whether it's Carson Kelly, whoever, like, you know, a right hander that struggled. whoever, is it smart to put this rookie that barely has any at-bats? I think the quick answer would be he's on the roster. If he's on the roster and he's the left-handed hitter that you have available, either he shouldn't be on the roster because you're just like, if you're not going to call upon him, then he shouldn't be on the roster.
00:04:31
Speaker 2: He's there. You got to call upon him.
00:04:34
Speaker 1: And immediately, the second I saw him on deck, I thought of this situation. It was 2023. It was July 3rd, 2023. bases loaded, one out, Brewers down by three in like the seventh or eighth inning at Milwaukee. Craig Council pinch hits Jesse Winker. Ross counters by bringing in a lefty, Anthony Kaye. Council immediately pinch hits Jemai Jones. Jemai Jones... Hadn't had a major league at bat in two years. I remember thinking like, this is insane. He's bringing in a guy that hasn't had a major league at bat in two years. Jeremiah Jones gets a basing clearing double. And Cubs fans are ranting and raving. This is why Craig Council is a master manager. He's out thinking David Ross. He did exactly what he wanted him to. He didn't do exactly what he wanted him to. He just was playing the percentages. He brought a righty in. Of course you want Jesse Winker up there over Jemai Jones. Jesse Winker is a veteran. And Jemai Jones is a guy that hadn't had a bat in two years. So it like, he's just going to do this. I'm not saying that he nailed the Jemai Jones move in the BJ Murray move was brilliant as well. I'm just saying he's going to play the percentages here. It's as simple as Abner Uribe dominates righties. Like it's not like close lefties had like a six 50 OPS, not great, but still double almost, you know, nearly double what, what they hit, what did they do against what he does against righties? It, It was like a no-win situation. The bench had been depleted. That's who you have available. I just don't think that's.
00:06:29
Speaker 2: I get it.
00:06:30
Speaker 1: It's frustrating to see B.J. Murray up there when the guy's never done it. Had a big moment in the big leagues and Carson Kelly just had a big hit.
00:06:38
Speaker 2: But I just.
00:06:40
Speaker 1: Don't... You can't manage off your gut. You gotta go with the numbers.
00:06:47
Speaker 4: Yeah, also don't be down seven runs in the ninth inning.
00:06:51
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:06:51
Speaker 4: Then your decisions will look better. But it was a good question. I was curious about that myself, so I'm with Jamie on that one.
00:06:58
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it looks terrible. It's terrible optics. Like, I see BJ Murray, and I immediately turn to.
00:07:05
Speaker 2: Our buddy Jesse. I'm like, Jesse, look who's on deck. Because he wasn't paying attention fully. He was like, man, they're coming back. This is crazy.
00:07:11
Speaker 1: And then he looks, he's like, what the hell is going on? You know, he was shocked, too. uh, it, it was a shocking thing to see. I can't deny that, but I, I also get the move. Like you gotta, gotta use the guys that you have. Like, and that's the percentage play. I, I also get the counter argument that it's like, he has no experience.
00:07:34
Speaker 2: Is that really the percentage play?
00:07:36
Speaker 1: We could, we could debate this forever. I, but I under like counsel, this is what counsel does. And I gave you the example of why, like, you know, from the past, uh, how he does it.
00:07:46
Speaker 2: Look, we're going to get these questions.
00:07:48
Speaker 1: We've gotten these questions forever, Patrick, and we're going to keep getting this question, I think, whenever the Cubs play the Brewers. Are people in the Cubs organization as frustrated as Cubs fans are with continually getting embarrassed by the Brewers year in and year out? That's from Justin Dvorak. What do you got, Patrick?
00:08:06
Speaker 4: Definitely frustrated. Definitely embarrassed.
00:08:09
Speaker 3: I think that is what makes this Brewers rivalry so interesting from our perspective is because you gotta be thinking there are people in the Cubs organization, uh, who look at the payroll disparity and are like, what, what is going on? Why are they lapping us in this regard when we're spending roughly a hundred million more? Sometimes it fluctuates, but you know, the years change, the budgets change and the brewers still, uh, are on top.
00:08:44
Speaker 4: Of the Cubs.
00:08:45
Speaker 3: I think it is becoming the story of this season.
00:08:52
Speaker 4: I obviously Pete's MVP season as.
00:08:56
Speaker 3: Well, but you know, the Cubs are riding pretty high when they, when the Brewers came into Wrigley early this season and they swept them. And, you know, I had a Cubs player, you know, in hindsight, look back on it and say, you know, we weren't, quite at full strength, not making excuses now, but like, that's how, you know, you have to put context around, you know, some of these series and, you know, you see what happens at the end of the year, um, you know, both at Wrigley, uh, and up in Milwaukee. And like, there's just no doubt that they are the better team. And, you know, if the Cubs somehow, uh, make the playoffs and win a first round and wind up playing Milwaukee, maybe they have a chance to sort of change the narrative here. But right now, it just really in all areas makes the Cubs look lesser than. Obviously, Council's history in Milwaukee, they have not slowed down since he left the way they draft. the way they develop the way they cultivate pitching uh the way they bring in international players um.
00:10:11
Speaker 4: Just outstanding uh across the board.
00:10:15
Speaker 1: Uh i would I would say this, I'd say organizationally, it's clear the Brewers are better. Like when top to bottom, when you're looking at the full organization, are they light years ahead currently at the major league level? I think the difference is pitching. And I think that's obvious. And that's, that's part of the organizational part that I'm talking about. But I don't think they're light. I know they're 10 games ahead. I know, I know they're, they're, they're, they're the better team right now. record wise, there's no doubt. I don't think the Cubs, I think the Cubs have closed the gap talent wise at the major league level.
00:10:55
Speaker 2: Uh, am I concerned about the future? Like 2028? Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:00
Speaker 1: Uh, 20 what's.
00:11:02
Speaker 2: What's Carter's year? 2031. Yeah. The brewers still look better. Um, like they, they have a bright future.
00:11:11
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can say that about the Cubs and, Uh, I think they have a good core here. They have a good group of players, but the lack of pitching development is a concern. We're going to keep talking about this. This is a, there's more questions about this and, and it's just, it's an issue and it's something that has to be addressed. And I, but I will say like the Cubs aren't just like there's, there's not as big of a gap as far as current major league teams. I do not think that the brewers are just like, how can the Cubs compete with them? Uh, it, And I did feel like that a couple years ago. The Cubs have closed the gap there, major league level, but pitching's a problem right now, especially the bullpen. And then there's just moments where the Brewers just do the little things. The Cubs did play a sloppy series. I think they made two errors yesterday that led to runs. That doesn't normally happen with this group, but it was Nico Horner at shortstop and Pedro Ramirez at second. Both great defenders, but these things happen. Let's take a quick break, Patrick, and then come back and take more questions.
00:12:25
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00:12:44
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00:12:45
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00:12:47
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00:13:02
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00:13:25
Speaker 1: Okay, let's see what this next question is. Okay, do you think it's time... Jed and Carter revised their method of building a bullpen on the cheap. I think there's a multiple levels to this. We're going to touch on a different part of it, uh, later in the episode, but, um, no, I, I don't. I think they, they actually go back to leaning into that because the guys they spent on, uh, Phil Maton and Hunter Harvey didn't work. Like they, That's the reason the bullpen's bad, because they invested in guys and they haven't done anything this season. Like, Maton was bad and hurt. Harvey was hurt. Like, they got nothing out of these guys. And you can make the argument that they should have spent on established guys, but we've talked about this a lot, Patrick, but go look at the list. Pete Fairbanks, Devin Williams, Edwin Diaz, none of them had good seasons. They were either hurt or ineffective or both. There are other names. Robert Suarez, great season for when he was on the mound.
00:14:34
Speaker 2: He was hurt.
00:14:34
Speaker 1: He's been hurt a lot. If you want to say they should have traded for someone like Duran or Mason Miller last deadline, you know, 2025 deadline, I'll listen.
00:14:46
Speaker 2: To that argument.
00:14:46
Speaker 1: The overpay for those guys pay way too much. I don't think they could have gotten Mason Miller. They didn't have the talent. Maybe they could have gotten Duran, someone like David Bednar. Maybe that's the argument. pay up for one of those guys a year and a half ago uh but spending in free agency on on relievers is a crapshoot and a really bad idea and it often doesn't work i know there's frustration right now and you want uh some dominant reliever in there that that kind of cleans up all these messes I just like it over and over and over again. It's proven that spending big on relievers does not work. There is another answer to this that I, the problem goes deeper than this.
00:15:36
Speaker 2: It is not spending though.
00:15:38
Speaker 3: I would argue that they have revised it already, whether it's the May time deal, I've given up Moises by Asteros and Mason McGuire for Ryan Zephyr. John, obviously you have to be right when you, push those resources in that direction that obviously Maiton did not work out this year.
00:16:02
Speaker 4: Zephyr John we'll see.
00:16:03
Speaker 3: It's been kind of spotty thus far, but even if he was.
00:16:08
Speaker 4: Awesome right now, he'd still have to prove it in these small samples in the biggest games of the year.
00:16:17
Speaker 3: And whether or not it's time, I would have to think that you're looking at potentially five free agents walking from your rotation at the end of the year. So whatever money you got, whatever prospects you got are probably going to be pushed towards the rotation, which I think everyone agrees is kind of what you.
00:16:44
Speaker 4: Have to do.
00:16:45
Speaker 3: So I don't– I honestly haven't looked too closely at the free agent relievers coming up. I just know how many free agent starters they're going to have to acquire. And so I think what you'll see again is basically what they did with Andrew Kittredge. I believe it was a $ 9 million club option for this year. They sent him back to the Orioles, which I believe negated... like a million dollar buyout, whatever, whether it's eight or nine million dollars, whatever you're kind of looking at, the Cubs viewed it as, well, we'd rather take eight shots on relievers at one million per versus the eight or nine million dollars on Andrew.
00:17:35
Speaker 4: Kittredge's, say, mid-30s season.
00:17:40
Speaker 3: I don't know if he's 35, 36, but just that idea of they think they can keep finding guys. I think They sort of have this year, even.
00:17:50
Speaker 4: Though they're running out of guys now.
00:17:52
Speaker 3: But, yeah, more Ryan Rollison's, more Trent Thornton's, obviously Jacob Webb's.
00:18:00
Speaker 4: So I think that's probably the way, though.
00:18:02
Speaker 3: And we'll see, too, whatever economic system comes out of these labor negotiations as well.
00:18:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you're listening to this answer right now and screaming about the obvious thing that we're leaving out, player development, we'll address that in a moment. There's more questions coming. Mike McElwee asks about help coming for the bullpen. Shelby Miller, Jackson Wiggins, is anyone coming to save them? This seems pretty brutal right now. It does seem pretty brutal right now.
00:18:37
Speaker 2: So, okay, this is.
00:18:39
Speaker 1: This is the most frustrating thing when watching bullpen struggle. You just think it's going to last forever and that these guys stink and that they cannot pitch and that they're unusable.
00:18:51
Speaker 2: I'll say this. I'm concerned about Daniel Palencia. He's getting no swing and miss.
00:18:56
Speaker 1: Guys are not. He's not missing bats. I'm a little concerned about that. I think Ryan Zephyr John is taking baby steps forward. I think you need like a big step. to kind of like start feeling comfortable with them.
00:19:10
Speaker 2: Jacob Webb. It was two weeks ago that he was.
00:19:15
Speaker 1: On like a 25 inning run, scoreless run. That was probably a little lucky, you know, I shouldn't say probably a little lucky. There was probably a little luck involved in that.
00:19:29
Speaker 2: Good luck.
00:19:30
Speaker 1: He's on a terrible run now, including three, You know, two out to two run homers that all either won or tied a game in the bottom of the ninth inning. That is a little bit of bad luck, too. So, like, he needs to even out here. he needs to kind of get the luck back on his side he needs to execute better some of these pitches are terrible um he bad pitches he's got to execute better um and like, so you need to correct some of these guys that you have. Uh, I think field bars actually looked a lot better of late. I know they, he was on the mound when they lost Tuesday night. I didn't think he looked terrible. He got the big out and Bowers, um, Shelby Miller is probably going to be here at some point in the next week. Like a, like a week from now, Shelby Miller's probably on the roster. I would think you got to give him a shot. I, you know, um, I don't think Jackson Wiggins is coming up here. He doesn't have enough time to prove himself. Like it just, it's unlikely. Justin Steele, maybe, um, can he like, how much can he pitch? How, uh, how's the stuff actually looking? Um, after that, is there Edward Cabrera? Maybe like, I'm just not loving what I'm seeing at triple a from him, but it's maybe it, maybe it'll work. Uh, and then you also have to consider like, where are the spots for these guys? Like you send down Javier Assad, I guess for Shelby Miller. And then like, like, are you just getting rid of guys and are you comfortable doing that?
00:21:11
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess.
00:21:11
Speaker 3: Could you option Palencia? I mean, um, man, you need options. I mean, from my understanding, like you option a guy, uh, that still sort of carries over into October, I believe. I think there, there's some consideration there as well of sort of like, if you option a guy, when can you get them back? And I do think Palencia is a guy that they, that they need. Cause he just represents something different. And when he's on, he's been a lot better, but yeah, no one's coming to save them. Maybe Shelby Miller surprises us. It'd be a really cool story. He does have, really electric stuff and a really interesting backstory.
00:21:57
Speaker 4: But again, I think you underwent Tommy John at this time last year. So like it's asking a lot.
00:22:06
Speaker 1: It's they're in a rough situation. Like everyone has imploded. Everyone is struggling. Like it's like I said, maybe you could make the argument that Zephyr John is taking steps forward and deal bar is looking better. Ryan Rolison has been solid. Um, I did ask Craig Council about Aaron Savali. Do you change his role? Talk to Aaron Savali about, you know, would you be, could you be.
00:22:31
Speaker 2: Used more often?
00:22:32
Speaker 1: And I think Craig gave the diplomatic answer without saying that I don't know if I can use him twice in three days. He basically said he's in a role that he can thrive in right now. And it's an important role. Eating, he ate five innings. His point was, He had five innings over the span of five games. Relievers don't do that that often. I think it was about five games because he closed out Friday's win in Miami, and then it was two innings in a tie game on Tuesday. I think he's moving him into more high leverage moments.
00:23:11
Speaker 2: He looks good.
00:23:12
Speaker 1: I don't know if he feels like he can do like, the eighth inning on a Tuesday, the eighth inning on a Thursday and a Friday. Like, can he do that? I don't like, there's no history of him doing that. So it's tough to, to throw that on his plate suddenly. I, you know, and he has a role that he's doing well and I get counsel's point there, but I mean, that's, and he had a question about, do you put Colin Ray in high leverage situations? Like, I think the questions are taught, like are giving us answers about like how desperate this situation is.
00:23:49
Speaker 2: Colin Ray's not a high leverage reliever. Like I, Colin Ray's a really nice.
00:23:53
Speaker 1: Depth starter, like your seventh starter, your sixth starter when injuries hit and he, and he needs to start. It's just a, it's gotten to a point where it's like, how did this happen so quickly of like, You just don't have answers. Remember two weeks ago we were talking about they have so many guys coming and things are looking okay. The bullpen isn't a mess, but hey, they have reinforcements coming. That Ben Brown setback. At least he could stabilize some things. Yeah, this is a problem. Let's take a quick break and we'll come back and talk more pitching.
00:24:33
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00:24:53
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00:24:54
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00:24:56
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00:25:11
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00:25:34
Speaker 2: All right.
00:25:35
Speaker 1: One last question, and it is from a regular Tyler Dershowell. Do the Cubs have an evaluation problems in terms of long-term pitching in the bullpen? Feels like the constant reloading year after year doesn't happen comparatively to the Brewers.
00:25:53
Speaker 2: Your thoughts, Patrick?
00:25:57
Speaker 7: Yes, I think.
00:26:00
Speaker 1: Simple answer.
00:26:01
Speaker 4: Yeah, like the Brewers do have, you know, different.
00:26:06
Speaker 3: Circumstances in terms of some of the trades they make that if i think if the cubs made certain trades like that uh they would rightly get crushed for doing that um i gotta look up is this the time where one of theo's old quotes about you know the cardinals and brewers getting extra draft picks and bigger and the uh you know uh equivalent uh signing bonus increases um I was looking at Tyler's question and thinking like baseball shuts down.
00:26:41
Speaker 4: Whatever it is, the night of December 1st or December 2nd.
00:26:45
Speaker 3: I think this has got to be like the project of every single pitcher that you can talk to because they're not the guys in the system who are not on the 40 man. I think it's kind of going all in on that and trying to ring more out of what you have. We've seen, these advances in technology and examples of how pitchers can improve in certain areas over with certain programs. I think you have to do kind of a top to bottom reevaluation of, you know, how comes to de-emphasize scouts over the years. They've turned up the models really high. They've had, you know, some changes behind the scenes. I'm not saying that to like point blame or say like, Oh my God, you know, Craig Breslow left and what are they going to do? Like, but I mean, Breslow had a big imprint on it. Obviously Tyler Zombros has influence on it. I think the Cubs continue to draft hitters who quickly become assets. I think they're pitching at the major league level overall has been, pretty good year over year. But just all of it, we even talked about kind of healthcare and the injuries that have happened. I think that's something that has to be evaluated. Again, not saying blaming some like trainer at the lower level, but more of just like, okay, how can they get better in all of these areas to try to catch up to the brewers.
00:28:36
Speaker 1: Uh you look at the brewers i'm just looking at some of their best relievers uh trevor mcgill you know he was with the cubs and he and he struggled mightily but this is like typical type of pickup that the cubs would have that that has worked for them in the past like you're cycling through like different guys with talent that haven't clicked yet um they they let them go too early it happens i mean they sometimes take advantage of guys that Other teams let go. Sometimes the 40-man churn bites you. Aaron Ashby, draft pick. Abner Uribe, international free agent. Shane Drohan is the Freddie Peralta trade.
00:29:19
Speaker 2: It's a trade.
00:29:19
Speaker 1: I don't know which one. Boston, it was a Boston trade. It was that big trade with Boston. They got Kyle Harrison, right?
00:29:32
Speaker 2: Uh, Chad Patrick. Yeah.
00:29:33
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, Chad Patrick, uh, draft pick, I believe, or no, he was a small trade deal.
00:29:39
Speaker 2: Hall, another trade.
00:29:41
Speaker 1: They just have– they make these– they make trades that the Cubs, like you said, can't get away with. But it's also draft picks and international– like Abner Uribe is an international free agent. Like the Cubs don't have– you know, a lot of success stories in international free agency right now. They don't have a lot of like just pitching success stories with draft and development. Like this is a focus. And I, you know, I, they're going to be more changes made. They're going to be more adjustments made. It is. Like you said, I don't want to put it just on Breslau, but Breslau felt like it was going in the right direction. And now it felt like they've taken two steps back and, and, uh, Zombrow has a huge say.
00:30:26
Speaker 2: In these things. I think VP of pitching is his title, right?
00:30:29
Speaker 1: That was a Breslau's title before he became assistant GM. Uh, he like, he needs to start making a big imprint here. And like, can it be a quick like turnaround? Is there like, obviously he, uh, I mean, Dan Kantrovitz, uh, mentioned him multiple times when talking about the draft is a big imprint of the draft. He like, Talent acquisition is also a big part of his job. He's going to have a lot of say in how things are done. Can he turn things around? I think it's a problem. I don't know how quickly these things can change, but the fact that I think in an ideal world, maybe you have one big money reliever and then You have like a bunch of dice rolls on cheaper guys.
00:31:27
Speaker 2: You have a bunch of dice rolls on NRIs.
00:31:29
Speaker 1: And you have four Jackson Wiggins at AA and AAA instead of one. And hope two of them click over the course of the year and you can call upon them. Hope two of the NRIs click. Hope two of the $ 1. 5 million Jacob Webb signings click. And then you have your big money guy that you're supposed to trust.
00:31:49
Speaker 2: That's how you– Yeah, that's what you need.
00:31:51
Speaker 1: And then you have more depth and hope like guys develop over the course of the season and you continue the churn of like picking guys up and and cycling through different guys on the 40 man.
00:32:01
Speaker 2: It didn't work this year.
00:32:02
Speaker 1: And, you know, and all the the like grabbing of NRIs that that can't stop.
00:32:08
Speaker 2: And that's and I do not think spending money is the answer.
00:32:11
Speaker 1: It's development. It's drafting and development. You have to have more pitching in the system.
00:32:16
Speaker 2: They do not.
00:32:17
Speaker 1: They do not have enough pitching in the system. It is a major problem, and we have been talking about this since– I mean, come on. This has been an issue since 2011. They had some blips there. There was– I mean, obviously, Justin Steele, Albert Alzulay, Javier Asad. There's some others I'm missing, like Porter Hodge briefly. you know, like you've had some blips where you've been like, okay, there's like, I'm seeing more talent come at least. I'm seeing more guys that they drafted or developed or a bit in the system for a long time that they made tweaks to.
00:32:56
Speaker 4: That.
00:32:57
Speaker 1: There's something's working here and it's just not like, there's not enough there.
00:33:01
Speaker 2: It's not there.
00:33:02
Speaker 1: It stopped again. And, and you know, like Jed talked about it last winter, he was frustrated with it last winter. And, and, And my guess is it's going to be a huge point of focus.
00:33:17
Speaker 2: It already is.
00:33:18
Speaker 1: So, you know, it has to change. There's just like, you know, Tyler's right. The Brewers are much better at it.
00:33:26
Speaker 2: And I'll say this. This is my last thing on it.
00:33:29
Speaker 1: You want to talk about everything different between the Cubs and the Brewers. The Brewers do a lot of things differently. The difference is the pitching.
00:33:36
Speaker 2: That's it.
00:33:37
Speaker 1: Like the Cubs have the better offense. The Cubs have the better defense. pitching is not close. It is not close. And that has been the difference. And it's so important and it's cost them games and it's cost them the division. And you really hope it doesn't cost them a playoff spot because this is.
00:33:55
Speaker 2: A really talented team. Great offense, great defense.
00:33:57
Speaker 1: When you have like elite areas, two really important areas you're elite at, you just hope they can like things can come together over these final weeks and they can get like a stable pitching. And then you kind of put it together and get creative in the, in the post season. But woof, like this is, this has been a, like the.
00:34:19
Speaker 2: Gap does seem big.
00:34:20
Speaker 1: I get the frustration from fans. Uh, All right, we will be back next week. We'll see if we're talking about better things. They need to get some wins against, it's the Pirates, right? The Pirates this weekend coming to town. Then some tough ones against the Atlanta Braves. We'll see how they do against them, but we'll be talking to you soon. Thanks so much for watching, listening. This is Northside Territory. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe. Subscribe to the YouTube channel and subscribe to The Athletic where Patrick and I are on top of all things Cubs. Thanks for listening and watching, everyone. Take care.
