00:00:05
Speaker 1: Welcome into north side territory foul territory networks cubs podcast i'm sahadev sharma with my partner patrick mooney we are your cubs beat writers over at the athletic patrick the brewers are one win away from a world series victory uh they remain one win away with a with a fun game on whatever night that was tuesday night last night it's hard to keep track of days even though the season is over for us I still don't know what day.
00:00:32
Speaker 2: Of the week it is.
00:00:36
Speaker 1: It's been actually three of those four games have been really good.
00:00:40
Speaker 2: This is, this has been, I know.
00:00:42
Speaker 1: Sometimes when it looks like it's a dominating series, it doesn't feel like it's a, it's a good series, but I feel like it's, it's been a really entertaining series outside of that one inning really where things fell apart for Tampa Bay. We are going to talk Cubs and, And do a mailbag episode. And unsurprisingly, one of the first questions has to do with the Brewers. Let's get right to it. Nathan Moore asked us, What's the current working theory in and around the Cubs organization for how the Brewers have achieved such a massive edge in player scouting and development?
00:01:22
Speaker 2: What do you got, Patrick?
00:01:26
Speaker 3: I think Nathan... nailed it with this question.
00:01:29
Speaker 4: I think that has been sort of an ongoing conversation within the Cubs organization. I think it's not any one thing. It's certainly not one person. We've seen David Stearns and Craig Council leave. We've seen Willie Damas walk as a free agent, trading Corbin Burns, Freddie Peralta, Josh Hader, Devin Williams.
00:01:52
Speaker 3: They excel in every area. I think that's just like.
00:01:56
Speaker 4: The simplest way to put it there's not like one takeaway of oh if the Cubs just made this slight tweak in this one area they get a lot better like the Brewers I was just kind of going over their their roster watching the World Series and it's like you know doing those contract extensions before players make their big league debut uh I mean Andy Ashby was not a first round pick he came out of a junior college he becomes this awesome lefty reliever They did an early deal with him too. He's locked up for multiple seasons. They hit on first round pick position players. That's something the Cubs do well. The Brewers do that plus develop awesome pitchers up and down their organization. You really see it here. It feels like we're not watching it as closely. We're not in the clubhouse covering it the way we would as beat writers. It just feels like they could win another seven-game series after this. Like, it does not seem like they're running on fumes.
00:03:00
Speaker 2: That's so true.
00:03:01
Speaker 3: Like, things seem pretty lined up and orderly. They haven't been pushed to the brink of elimination.
00:03:11
Speaker 4: Like, it's really, like, they've left no doubts this October, barring what would be an epic collapse. I mean, that's what we're talking here Wednesday morning. But I think it's, like, Brewers are a great organization now, and I think they'll be really, really good for years and years to come.
00:03:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the one thing you didn't mention there was International Free Agency.
00:03:36
Speaker 3: Yes, yes.
00:03:37
Speaker 2: They're standout there.
00:03:42
Speaker 1: They are the model organization, and when you say what is the current working theory, I don't think anyone really knows what makes them so good as far as Is there a secret sauce? Remember when Carter Hawkins was hired and it was like, what's the Cleveland Guardians secret sauce to pitching development? I don't know if there's one thing, but there is an organization across the board that is working in harmony. And that's why losing David Stearns or Craig Council isn't some killer.
00:04:15
Speaker 2: It's not.
00:04:16
Speaker 1: They have a really strong organization from top to bottom. There are a lot of people working together and believing in core philosophies that are leading to success. They identify players that they like. Ashby's a great example of it. These aren't guys that are obvious first-round picks. These aren't guys that anyone... They just do a really good job of identifying characteristics that they love, whether it be pitching or position players, and and then getting the most out of that talent. I remember I'm, I'm almost positive Ashby made his debut against the Cubs, his major league debut against the Cubs. And I'm pretty sure I was there and he didn't have a great game. I'm going, I haven't looked this up, but I've been watching him during the playoffs and just thinking like, even when he didn't have that good game, I remember thinking, I was like, I still feel like that guy's going to be good. Like that's a lefty with really good stuff. Uh, Maybe it was early in his career. Maybe it wasn't his debut. But I just remember like thinking like, this guy's like upper 90s from the left side. Like this guy, like he may not have been perfect today, but that guy's going to be a pain in the Cubs ass. And so it's not surprising to see him like dominate like that.
00:05:38
Speaker 3: So his debut was June 30th, 2021 at American Family Field. The Brewers won.
00:05:51
Speaker 4: 15-7, and I believe that was the series that sort of put the nail in the coffin for the Cubs. That was when Jed Hoyer decided to sell at that deadline, and Ashby was an opener who allowed seven runs for earned. And obviously the Brewers came back to win that one rather handily.
00:06:17
Speaker 1: That was the Arrieta start that basically... led to the, if I'm remembering correctly, led to the sell-off.
00:06:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, Arrieta did start the game.
00:06:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, they blew a 7-0 lead. Okay, so I do remember Ashby struggling. That's why that sticks out in my memory. Okay, so not a great memory for Cubs fans. Sorry, but I mean, that's just one example. And obviously, you named all the pitchers that they traded away. Just imagine the Cubs trading Cade Horton.
00:06:50
Speaker 2: Ben Brown, Justin Steele.
00:06:53
Speaker 1: I know they didn't have them, but I'm just saying like, those are probably like the three best pitchers in their organization over the past couple of years. If they traded them all, like people would be like, what, how do you backfill that?
00:07:05
Speaker 2: What are you doing? Like, how do you get pitchers?
00:07:08
Speaker 1: And, and the, the reality is like, it's not like the brewers have nailed those trades. They, those trades have been okay to like kind of bad at times, like as far as the return, like just, Nothing like blowing you away with those returns. They've been fine, but it's remarkable how they just keep reloading and they still have a top farm system. They're not going anywhere. Really well run organization. I don't know if you can say what's the current working theory. Yes, the Cubs are trying to figure out how do you gain edge, but I don't think you can just steal what other teams are doing. You have to be really good at what you do. Try and figure out how to develop pitching. We're going to talk about that. We got plenty of topics here. regarding pitching and pitching development. Um, here's Tyler Dershow, regular, uh, emailer or not emailer, but you know, messenger, uh, checking in with how devoid of pitching this franchise is, uh, at currently in all aspects of system and development and the core being as old as it is, are they forced to go all in this season or is that an exaggeration? I, it feels like a little bit of an exaggeration.
00:08:20
Speaker 2: Um, I'll say this. Okay.
00:08:23
Speaker 1: So yes, you got like a position player core kind of locked up.
00:08:27
Speaker 2: Uh, and I'd say old or maybe.
00:08:34
Speaker 1: Like at least that you can confidently say like, this is like the second half.
00:08:39
Speaker 2: Of their career.
00:08:40
Speaker 1: It's like Dansby and Bregman. Um, you know, it, Pete is entering his, his peak. He's not even really there in theory, age wise. Uh, and then Nico's right there in the middle of it. Bush is entering it. Um, do you consider Miguel Amaya part of the score? I don't know, but he's probably entering it. Uh, those are the position players that I'd point to. Uh, and then you have to build around them with with pitching and there's a, there is some pitching, but they're all hurt right now. And like a lot of question marks. So we don't really know what the pitching situation is. And they're obviously going to focus on that. And we're going to talk more about that. I don't think you need to go all in. I think you have to have a very good off season. I don't think it's about like just spending, spending, spending. I think you have to be smart about the moves you make. I do think you need to be aggressive with at least one financial move, like spend, like, Get a no-doubt starter in free agency, but also be aggressive with trades.
00:09:43
Speaker 2: Shake things up. Try and figure out different ways.
00:09:49
Speaker 1: I don't want to just say the Brewers and Rays, you have to copy what they're doing because they're in the World Series. But you look at them, they they make a lot of trades. They make a lot of shrewd moves. It's not, we just spent so much talking time talking about the brewers. They make those trades and they work out a lot of times. They, they, uh, and they may not be like trade, like they trade, um, uh, why am I blanking on who they just straight Freddie Peralta? And they don't get like dominant. They didn't get like dominant starters back. Like Brandon Sprout didn't work out for them. Um, but they get innings from these guys. They, and they get guys that can help out and maybe they help out down the road. Uh, Brandon Woodruff, the return was DL hall and Joey Ortiz. I believe you get innings from.
00:10:32
Speaker 2: DL hall and Joey Ortiz. Yeah.
00:10:34
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:10:34
Speaker 2: What is it? What did I say? Brandon Woodruff? Sorry.
00:10:36
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:10:37
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:10:37
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:10:37
Speaker 2: Corbin Burns. Not. Yeah.
00:10:39
Speaker 1: Uh, So, like, you need to be willing to do that and get a lot of, you know, get guys in return. And maybe that's how you stock up a bullpen and a rotation. There's different ways to build this pitching staff up. And it's not going to be just not in 2027 isn't going to be the system in all likelihood. So you got to make some trades, try and help the team out and make some signings. Jed Hoyer doesn't believe in all-in, so he doesn't like that.
00:11:13
Speaker 2: Your thoughts, Patrick?
00:11:14
Speaker 4: I had the exact same thought. From ownership on down, this organization hates the term all-in. I get what Tyler is saying. When you have a barren pitching program and you do have a couple– expensive players getting older, you're wondering how many more, you know, four or five win or seasons you have in Swanson and Bregman. But I still think this team will probably be in that like 85 win band of like, if things go bad, you know, they're winning 83. If things go good, maybe they get close to 90. I mean, they have a ton of work to do this off season. I know we've talked about guys who could become free agents and the Nico extension sort of took some of that, pushed some of that a little bit back and Pete's development.
00:12:15
Speaker 3: But otherwise, you know, is this a.
00:12:19
Speaker 4: Great opportunity to just dramatically reshape the team?
00:12:23
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:12:24
Speaker 4: Is it going to be extremely difficult to when you could have, you know, a dozen established major league players.
00:12:33
Speaker 3: Walking out the door?
00:12:35
Speaker 2: Of course.
00:12:36
Speaker 4: And so I think that's why it's going to be a really interesting offseason and why I think they're not going to sit on the sidelines in November before the lockout.
00:12:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay.
00:12:48
Speaker 1: We're going to talk more about pitching. Let's take a quick break and get to that.
00:12:54
Speaker 6: Okay, Kratzy, here we are again, man. How many times do we have to tell people to get the best tickets in the house? Where do we got to go? We got to go to SeatGeek. It's been worth it so many times, so many years. The green light will let you know when it is time to go and the best seats available. The red will let you know if it's not the best. Kratzy, tell them how easy it is.
00:13:14
Speaker 5: Todd, I know it's easy, but I'm looking for the deals because that's what I do. Even so much, like we're getting such a good deal. I want you to come across the river. and we'll go to a Sixers game together. I don't know where to sit in the stadium, but it'll let me know that it's a perfect view because I'm not a big NBA fan, but I gotta go see the Sixers play with LeBron and the boys.
00:13:36
Speaker 6: And of course I have a code for you all. You can use code TERRITORY10 for 10% off your next set of tickets at SeatGeek. That's 10% of all tickets with promo code TERRITORY10. Make sure you click the link in the description to download the app and have the code automatically added to your account so you can use it later.
00:13:56
Speaker 2: All right, Patrick.
00:13:57
Speaker 1: Uh, next question here from blue line theology. Some of the 27 pitching can be improved through transactions.
00:14:05
Speaker 2: What can the.
00:14:06
Speaker 1: Cubs do this off season to build a system that annually promotes pitching prospects to the big league, especially the bullpen? Uh, before we answer that, I just want to check the other question because I think it's similar. Um, This is Joe Maddon's glasses. I know the Cubs aren't going to get better at devoted at devoting pitching overnight. I should have read that again. I I'm assuming that's developing pitching overnight, but what are some concrete steps they can take this off season to improve in that area?
00:14:38
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:14:38
Speaker 1: So this is going to be, this is a big, uh, this is a big topic this off season. Um, they're going to need to look, we, we understand we've talked a lot about acquiring pitching and, uh, you know, however, like that was the last question and it's going to be the focus of the off season. That's not the only thing that Cubs are doing. The Cubs are continuing to revamp their pitching development process. This is a process, um, you know, that, that they felt like they were on the right track with when they hired Breslow and he started revamping things and, and they had some things go going right. Whether it was, uh, Edward Alzelie taking like a huge step and finally becoming a legitimate weapon at the major league level, Justin Steele, taking some steps, uh, brief glimpses of brilliance from, uh, Keegan Thompson, uh, Javier Assad going from like this unknown prospect to really quality pitcher.
00:15:34
Speaker 2: They had some success stories. There were some, uh, you know.
00:15:38
Speaker 1: They finally, after years of not seeing anyone come up from the minors and help them, they had some guys help them at the major league level. Um, And they also had things going right in the minors where it felt like, oh, hey, we have some guys popping. We have some guys developing velocity. That stagnated for a couple years. You know, I don't like just like doing a one-to-one thing saying like Craig Breslow left and then it fell apart.
00:16:07
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's fair to do. I will say this.
00:16:12
Speaker 1: They felt like they kind of went adrift with their philosophy and their that was reestablished over the past year.
00:16:20
Speaker 2: And it's a lot of like.
00:16:22
Speaker 1: They need coaches to be on the same page as like directors and, and someone have putting a plan in place and trusting that that is going to be executed by the coaches and executed properly.
00:16:34
Speaker 2: And, and there.
00:16:36
Speaker 1: Are, you know, pitching coordinators and everybody needs to be on the same page and think a big thing that they wanted to do over this past year was reestablish that velocity.
00:16:45
Speaker 2: Gains are really important.
00:16:47
Speaker 1: We like the I think one person put it to me is like we have a North Star of like this needs to be our North Star. And this is just constant improvement. How do we maximize these talents? It is not about getting to the major leagues. It's about getting to the major leagues and being great there. And they I think they felt like there were steps taken there.
00:17:11
Speaker 2: Last year.
00:17:12
Speaker 1: Uh, the highest levels, I think what we saw at the major league level and then a triple a, uh, wasn't good enough. Uh, I think they're making changes. I think they're continuing to evolve. It's hard to give them credit when we haven't seen it yet. Uh, I think there was a, what was, uh, this was, uh, what are some concrete steps they can take in the off season? Look, I, I think they're excited about, uh, the, uh, this past class, this past draft class, I talked to some people. Do you think this can look a lot better by next year at this time? And they are confident that yes, with the draft class that they have and with the steps they took, they believe, and look, I need.
00:18:00
Speaker 2: Like, this is what I've heard.
00:18:01
Speaker 1: From multiple people up to double a double a and below they did.
00:18:05
Speaker 2: They did make steps. The velocity jumps were there.
00:18:08
Speaker 1: Like there were some numbers that were encouraging and, they felt like there were positive steps made. They weren't there ready for them at AAA and the major league was just like constant, like churning. And there was a lot going on. I think it's a difficult thing to change overnight, but I do think we can see results quickly because we did under Breslau, like for those players that I mentioned, they weren't really on our radars fully until it's like, well, we've made these changes with this guy. We did this with this guy. Oh, like this guy's healthy. And, and doing this now. So it's possible that we see some stuff. Uh, I do think they're excited about this draft class and there, there's a lot more stuff in this draft class, uh, that could, uh, pop this year. And, and if things go right, like if this is working, if this is right, if they make the right choices, if the developments that they're, if the, you know, theories or whatever you want to call them, uh, that they're, that they're going to be following, um, are those the right moves, then we should see some results this year.
00:19:14
Speaker 4: I'm staring at this graphic here and focusing on the phrasing of what can the Cubs do this offseason and thinking that it is a bad offseason to be trying to overhaul your.
00:19:27
Speaker 3: Entire pitching program.
00:19:31
Speaker 4: There's a world in which the Cubs do not see or communicate with Justin Steele, Cade Horton, or Ben Brown for like three months. They will not have access to the Cubs Mesa facility.
00:19:46
Speaker 3: I think there's going to be a lot, and it's not just a Cubs issue.
00:19:49
Speaker 4: It's going to be organizations across the game, you know, showing up reporting to Arizona and Florida for spring training, like having no idea who's picked up a baseball, who's been working out, who's in good shape, who, whatever sort of cubby occurrence might happen, shoveling snow or windsurfing. Who knows during the offseason? There's going to be a lot of unknowns. It does not bode well. I guess some of the more recent draft picks, they will be more of an ability to go face-to-face, to communicate, to work with. players who are not on the 40 man roster. And I'd imagine that would be, that would place an even bigger emphasis, uh, on.
00:20:42
Speaker 3: That pool of players.
00:20:44
Speaker 4: But, uh, you know, Edward Cabrera, like when you want a full off season to try and get him into a good place, like that's not going to happen. It's going to be a lot of kind of sending out the information, uh, giving sort of your closing messages, uh, before the CBA expires December 1st, and then.
00:21:05
Speaker 3: Just waiting to see what happens after the lockout.
00:21:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you touched on it there.
00:21:11
Speaker 1: The one thing is that they will be able to work with those minor leaguers. So those guys can take steps. You hope that the big leaguers... I think over the next... They have probably already started this process, and over the next month, they will... they will be putting plans in place. This is what we're doing. Um, this is what we need you to do. Here's your day to day plan. And month by month, here's how we'd like to see a progression with a plan for like, you know, it's hard to do because you don't, you also don't know when they're going to start. They have gone through this recently, similar staff as far as the major league staff, as far as pitching goes with Tommy, how to be leading the way. Um, They had to– like they were rebuilding the pitching infrastructure 19 into 20 and heading into a pandemic.
00:22:09
Speaker 2: And then not long after that, another– a lockout.
00:22:12
Speaker 1: So they did make steps during that time. It's not– I'm not saying that because I've done it once. And it's not like they created this pitching development machine.
00:22:22
Speaker 2: I don't want to give them all the credit in the world.
00:22:24
Speaker 1: It was better than it is now. and it happened quicker than I expected it to, or at least we started to see results quicker than I realized. And you can point to Boston now with Breslau and I'm sure they're like, I don't pay attention to every organization, but I pay attention to them because Breslau went over there. So I was curious that happened quickly too, but what kind of talent did he have to work with? I, you know, all these factors that I'm not fully aware of because I don't cover that team on a day-to-day basis.
00:22:52
Speaker 2: Uh, we'll see. It's going to be hard.
00:22:54
Speaker 1: Like they, they are making changes and they're trying to make this and we'll, we'll be writing about this and we'll have a, have a deeper story about what is going on and how, like the plans that, uh, they have. But it's, um, it's not a simple thing and it's not something they're ignoring. I guess that's, that's the best thing you can say about this. It's not like they're ignoring it and saying like all is well, uh, you just don't understand how well things are going. Um, There are some things that they believe are good and headed in the right direction, but it's not good enough. And the results are, we saw it this past year, they were struggling to call upon people from the minors with all those injuries. It wasn't an easy situation, but also you would have liked to have had a couple more names to call upon in the minor leagues. Okay, this one, we've talked so much about pitching, let's do a quick offense analysis. question from cub neck uh with all the focus on adding pitching do the cubs run the risk of the offense becoming a weakness but patrick i wanted to like just quickly uh do like not be not to be like obsessed with numbers here uh the cubs we're just going to look at numbers real quickly right the cubs by war position player group 37.7 war the next best were the dodgers at 26.9 So let's assume that the Cubs lose Seiya Suzuki in half and get nothing in return, get zero in return. That's about like 7.5 war. They still would have led all of baseball position player war. This isn't a one-to-one thing. You can't really do the add-subtract war.
00:24:35
Speaker 2: It doesn't work.
00:24:36
Speaker 1: It's not as simple as that, but I'm just going to, just for the sake of being quick here, they still lead all of baseball by like five war. Like if they lose, say, in half their war. So my point would be like, A, they're not going to do that. That's not their plan. They're hoping that– I don't know if Matt Shaw will be a part of this. I don't know if Pedro Ramirez will be a part of this. Like we talked about, there could be trades. And I wouldn't be shocked if they're moving someone like that. to get different types of players or pitching in particular. But one of them for sure I feel like will be a part of this, the answer there. And I think they're going to add smaller pieces that may not be like, you know, like maybe Michael Conforto-like and a few of those guys to kind of build out like platoons in the corners or one guy starting regularly or giving a shot to start regularly.
00:25:33
Speaker 2: I think we could see stuff like that.
00:25:35
Speaker 1: And you hope you can like be a pretty high level of war, uh, position player side. But the whole point is like, you need to improve the pitching and, and like we've heard, uh, you know, them talk about this. There are different ways to add up the wins. The Cubs had six war from their pitching. So if you lose, let's say eight war from position players, uh, you need to like, you better gain eight or from pitching six war is unacceptable for a playoff team.
00:26:08
Speaker 2: So like just strictly going off that, uh, I like, and.
00:26:12
Speaker 1: And answering the question, I don't think the offense, unless Alex Bregman and Pete grow Armstrong, aren't good. Like it's not going to be a, a weakness. It may not be the best offense in baseball. Maybe there's a chance you worry that it's not a top 10 offense anymore, but like an outright weakness, like a bottom 10 offense, uh, I struggle to see that when you have two guys like that and then you hope for improvement from Nico Horner bouncing back. You hope Michael Bush finds his power stroke. You hope that there's others that can help you. But you have an MVP and a guy that played like an MVP in the second half and actually is going to get down ballot votes in Alex Bregman. As long as they don't fall off too far, being a weakness I think is going to be hard for me to say.
00:26:59
Speaker 2: Being elite....
00:27:01
Speaker 1: I don't know if they can do that again. It is going to be interesting to see how they come up with it. Ultimately, I think you need a little bit more balance between offense and position players and pitching, and you can have a similarly good, maybe a better and more well-rounded team. But I understand the concern about offense. You're losing a lot if you don't bring back Seah and Happ, which they're not going to bring both of them back, for sure.
00:27:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I've been thinking about Seah and, like, we'll... continue to gather more information and, you know, after the world series ends and as officials show up for the GM meetings, we can kind of get a better sense of what his market might look like. But all of our preliminary indications like are not all that encouraging. If you're hoping to see say, uh, come back next year, just, you know, that's just.
00:27:56
Speaker 3: Kind of the way it is right now. And that, that doesn't mean it's impossible that.
00:28:00
Speaker 4: He, that there's like zero chance he could come back, but just sort of like setting expectations, end of the season, heading into the off season.
00:28:09
Speaker 3: That's just where they are.
00:28:10
Speaker 4: I think, I think there is a risk just in the sense of like, it's almost inevitably going.
00:28:15
Speaker 3: To go down.
00:28:17
Speaker 4: If you were the number one offense, we saw just that awful lull of the 10 game losing streak. We saw the offense did not show up in San Diego. And like, if they're, they're not able to piece together the pitching again. And the offense takes a step back. Like that's what, that's when, you know, the season goes sideways. And, and I do think, I think it was your question. Jed said like the ratio won't be a hundred to zero in terms of where they put their resources vis-a-vis pitching and hitting. And I do wonder if like, there is this pivot somewhere in there of like, they, see their options on.
00:29:01
Speaker 3: The pitching side.
00:29:02
Speaker 4: Um, they sort of redistribute the resources and maybe there's a way in which they add off.
00:29:12
Speaker 3: What is it? A Carter saying a win is a win is a win.
00:29:15
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's what I was thinking when I was talking.
00:29:17
Speaker 6: Yeah.
00:29:17
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:29:18
Speaker 3: They're not, not very dogmatic in that regard.
00:29:20
Speaker 4: So I do think there's a possibility that, you know, we're setting the expectations here and then maybe, you know, they go out into the market and find that, okay, it might make sense to, allocate differently. But look, unless your offense just crushes it in the postseason, you're going to feel like your offense is a weakness. I mean, you know how it goes. Hitting is hard. It comes in waves. And unless your hitters do it at the exact opportune times as a fan, you're going to walk away being like, Like, man, the offense needs a ton.
00:29:57
Speaker 2: Of work, you know? Yeah, yeah.
00:30:01
Speaker 1: And I think ultimately what I take away from that in the playoffs is you need a lot of pitching.
00:30:05
Speaker 2: You just need pitching after pitching after pitching.
00:30:08
Speaker 1: I watch the Brewers and, you know, they are able to send those guys out, Uribe, Ashby, to McGill, and they're able to do it in a way like, okay, just lean on them. You know, get like four, five, six innings if you can, and then lean on them. Uh, and, and it's, it's a formula that works. You don't need like eight guys in the bullpen to dominate in the post season. Um, you need a deeper bullpen to get through the season, but it's a different game come the post season. If you have like three or four dominant arms in the bullpen that you really trust or that are locked in and healthy for the post season, like that, that matters so much. Uh, pitching I think is, is like the way, like you want a good offense. You want a deep offense. You want a talented offense. The Cubs have that and have the potential to continue to have that next season. But you need to build up the pitching. You need a little bit more depth there. And it's just, I mean, we knew this, we talked about it going into the post season, like the Cubs could make a run, but can they get through this many series?
00:31:12
Speaker 2: Like with that pitching, like we just.
00:31:15
Speaker 1: Didn't like, yeah, we felt like they were super talented and that they had a chance to go make some noise. I just like, we, it was just like, a lot of stuff has to go right for them to like make a rail run to like make it to the Royal series. Like how can they do that with this pitching? So that's why I just think you have to improve the pitching. And I think, and just to wrap up on your point about like, maybe they pivot, there are ways like it, you don't have to like you. And I'm not saying like a say or a Rosarena level bat, but there are going to be bats will come for a one or two year deal. And like, and it's like 10 ish, 12 ish annually. Like that's not crazy for the Cubs to spend right now. It one move like that, along with some trades and then spending big on one pitcher.
00:32:06
Speaker 2: Like that's, I could see that. And that's an impact.
00:32:08
Speaker 1: That's a bat that could help if you get the right guy. It's about, I, Chad says this all front office. People say this, it's about being right, making, making the right choices, finding the right guys. They found the right guys on the bench this year, over the course of the season, they found a good bench. They didn't nail the, the bullpen picks. Like, so it's like, so some picks look great. Some don't, they did not have an ideal off season in the sense, like the first, especially, well, I guess the way that Bregman ended it, it washes away a lot of that. But in the first half we were talking about like, wow, what a bad off season, like all their moves, Maton, Bregman and Cabrera really, really struggled.
00:32:47
Speaker 2: Right.
00:32:47
Speaker 1: So you just need to, they just need to, they need bounce backs from some of these pitchers like Cabrera and they need, and they need to be right with their moves. There's going to be a lot of moves because they have holes to fill. So we'll see how that goes exactly. We'll be back with more. There may be enough to do another to answer more of your questions.
00:33:07
Speaker 2: We'll see.
00:33:07
Speaker 1: I'll go back and look and see if we have enough there. But there'll definitely be another episode this week. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks so much for watching. This is Northside Territory. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe. Subscribe to the YouTube channel and subscribe to The Athletic where Patrick and I are on top of all things Cubs. Thanks for listening and watching, everyone.
00:33:25
Speaker 2: Take care.
Speaker 1: Welcome into north side territory foul territory networks cubs podcast i'm sahadev sharma with my partner patrick mooney we are your cubs beat writers over at the athletic patrick the brewers are one win away from a world series victory uh they remain one win away with a with a fun game on whatever night that was tuesday night last night it's hard to keep track of days even though the season is over for us I still don't know what day.
00:00:32
Speaker 2: Of the week it is.
00:00:36
Speaker 1: It's been actually three of those four games have been really good.
00:00:40
Speaker 2: This is, this has been, I know.
00:00:42
Speaker 1: Sometimes when it looks like it's a dominating series, it doesn't feel like it's a, it's a good series, but I feel like it's, it's been a really entertaining series outside of that one inning really where things fell apart for Tampa Bay. We are going to talk Cubs and, And do a mailbag episode. And unsurprisingly, one of the first questions has to do with the Brewers. Let's get right to it. Nathan Moore asked us, What's the current working theory in and around the Cubs organization for how the Brewers have achieved such a massive edge in player scouting and development?
00:01:22
Speaker 2: What do you got, Patrick?
00:01:26
Speaker 3: I think Nathan... nailed it with this question.
00:01:29
Speaker 4: I think that has been sort of an ongoing conversation within the Cubs organization. I think it's not any one thing. It's certainly not one person. We've seen David Stearns and Craig Council leave. We've seen Willie Damas walk as a free agent, trading Corbin Burns, Freddie Peralta, Josh Hader, Devin Williams.
00:01:52
Speaker 3: They excel in every area. I think that's just like.
00:01:56
Speaker 4: The simplest way to put it there's not like one takeaway of oh if the Cubs just made this slight tweak in this one area they get a lot better like the Brewers I was just kind of going over their their roster watching the World Series and it's like you know doing those contract extensions before players make their big league debut uh I mean Andy Ashby was not a first round pick he came out of a junior college he becomes this awesome lefty reliever They did an early deal with him too. He's locked up for multiple seasons. They hit on first round pick position players. That's something the Cubs do well. The Brewers do that plus develop awesome pitchers up and down their organization. You really see it here. It feels like we're not watching it as closely. We're not in the clubhouse covering it the way we would as beat writers. It just feels like they could win another seven-game series after this. Like, it does not seem like they're running on fumes.
00:03:00
Speaker 2: That's so true.
00:03:01
Speaker 3: Like, things seem pretty lined up and orderly. They haven't been pushed to the brink of elimination.
00:03:11
Speaker 4: Like, it's really, like, they've left no doubts this October, barring what would be an epic collapse. I mean, that's what we're talking here Wednesday morning. But I think it's, like, Brewers are a great organization now, and I think they'll be really, really good for years and years to come.
00:03:31
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think the one thing you didn't mention there was International Free Agency.
00:03:36
Speaker 3: Yes, yes.
00:03:37
Speaker 2: They're standout there.
00:03:42
Speaker 1: They are the model organization, and when you say what is the current working theory, I don't think anyone really knows what makes them so good as far as Is there a secret sauce? Remember when Carter Hawkins was hired and it was like, what's the Cleveland Guardians secret sauce to pitching development? I don't know if there's one thing, but there is an organization across the board that is working in harmony. And that's why losing David Stearns or Craig Council isn't some killer.
00:04:15
Speaker 2: It's not.
00:04:16
Speaker 1: They have a really strong organization from top to bottom. There are a lot of people working together and believing in core philosophies that are leading to success. They identify players that they like. Ashby's a great example of it. These aren't guys that are obvious first-round picks. These aren't guys that anyone... They just do a really good job of identifying characteristics that they love, whether it be pitching or position players, and and then getting the most out of that talent. I remember I'm, I'm almost positive Ashby made his debut against the Cubs, his major league debut against the Cubs. And I'm pretty sure I was there and he didn't have a great game. I'm going, I haven't looked this up, but I've been watching him during the playoffs and just thinking like, even when he didn't have that good game, I remember thinking, I was like, I still feel like that guy's going to be good. Like that's a lefty with really good stuff. Uh, Maybe it was early in his career. Maybe it wasn't his debut. But I just remember like thinking like, this guy's like upper 90s from the left side. Like this guy, like he may not have been perfect today, but that guy's going to be a pain in the Cubs ass. And so it's not surprising to see him like dominate like that.
00:05:38
Speaker 3: So his debut was June 30th, 2021 at American Family Field. The Brewers won.
00:05:51
Speaker 4: 15-7, and I believe that was the series that sort of put the nail in the coffin for the Cubs. That was when Jed Hoyer decided to sell at that deadline, and Ashby was an opener who allowed seven runs for earned. And obviously the Brewers came back to win that one rather handily.
00:06:17
Speaker 1: That was the Arrieta start that basically... led to the, if I'm remembering correctly, led to the sell-off.
00:06:25
Speaker 3: Yeah, Arrieta did start the game.
00:06:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, they blew a 7-0 lead. Okay, so I do remember Ashby struggling. That's why that sticks out in my memory. Okay, so not a great memory for Cubs fans. Sorry, but I mean, that's just one example. And obviously, you named all the pitchers that they traded away. Just imagine the Cubs trading Cade Horton.
00:06:50
Speaker 2: Ben Brown, Justin Steele.
00:06:53
Speaker 1: I know they didn't have them, but I'm just saying like, those are probably like the three best pitchers in their organization over the past couple of years. If they traded them all, like people would be like, what, how do you backfill that?
00:07:05
Speaker 2: What are you doing? Like, how do you get pitchers?
00:07:08
Speaker 1: And, and the, the reality is like, it's not like the brewers have nailed those trades. They, those trades have been okay to like kind of bad at times, like as far as the return, like just, Nothing like blowing you away with those returns. They've been fine, but it's remarkable how they just keep reloading and they still have a top farm system. They're not going anywhere. Really well run organization. I don't know if you can say what's the current working theory. Yes, the Cubs are trying to figure out how do you gain edge, but I don't think you can just steal what other teams are doing. You have to be really good at what you do. Try and figure out how to develop pitching. We're going to talk about that. We got plenty of topics here. regarding pitching and pitching development. Um, here's Tyler Dershow, regular, uh, emailer or not emailer, but you know, messenger, uh, checking in with how devoid of pitching this franchise is, uh, at currently in all aspects of system and development and the core being as old as it is, are they forced to go all in this season or is that an exaggeration? I, it feels like a little bit of an exaggeration.
00:08:20
Speaker 2: Um, I'll say this. Okay.
00:08:23
Speaker 1: So yes, you got like a position player core kind of locked up.
00:08:27
Speaker 2: Uh, and I'd say old or maybe.
00:08:34
Speaker 1: Like at least that you can confidently say like, this is like the second half.
00:08:39
Speaker 2: Of their career.
00:08:40
Speaker 1: It's like Dansby and Bregman. Um, you know, it, Pete is entering his, his peak. He's not even really there in theory, age wise. Uh, and then Nico's right there in the middle of it. Bush is entering it. Um, do you consider Miguel Amaya part of the score? I don't know, but he's probably entering it. Uh, those are the position players that I'd point to. Uh, and then you have to build around them with with pitching and there's a, there is some pitching, but they're all hurt right now. And like a lot of question marks. So we don't really know what the pitching situation is. And they're obviously going to focus on that. And we're going to talk more about that. I don't think you need to go all in. I think you have to have a very good off season. I don't think it's about like just spending, spending, spending. I think you have to be smart about the moves you make. I do think you need to be aggressive with at least one financial move, like spend, like, Get a no-doubt starter in free agency, but also be aggressive with trades.
00:09:43
Speaker 2: Shake things up. Try and figure out different ways.
00:09:49
Speaker 1: I don't want to just say the Brewers and Rays, you have to copy what they're doing because they're in the World Series. But you look at them, they they make a lot of trades. They make a lot of shrewd moves. It's not, we just spent so much talking time talking about the brewers. They make those trades and they work out a lot of times. They, they, uh, and they may not be like trade, like they trade, um, uh, why am I blanking on who they just straight Freddie Peralta? And they don't get like dominant. They didn't get like dominant starters back. Like Brandon Sprout didn't work out for them. Um, but they get innings from these guys. They, and they get guys that can help out and maybe they help out down the road. Uh, Brandon Woodruff, the return was DL hall and Joey Ortiz. I believe you get innings from.
00:10:32
Speaker 2: DL hall and Joey Ortiz. Yeah.
00:10:34
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:10:34
Speaker 2: What is it? What did I say? Brandon Woodruff? Sorry.
00:10:36
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:10:37
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:10:37
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:10:37
Speaker 2: Corbin Burns. Not. Yeah.
00:10:39
Speaker 1: Uh, So, like, you need to be willing to do that and get a lot of, you know, get guys in return. And maybe that's how you stock up a bullpen and a rotation. There's different ways to build this pitching staff up. And it's not going to be just not in 2027 isn't going to be the system in all likelihood. So you got to make some trades, try and help the team out and make some signings. Jed Hoyer doesn't believe in all-in, so he doesn't like that.
00:11:13
Speaker 2: Your thoughts, Patrick?
00:11:14
Speaker 4: I had the exact same thought. From ownership on down, this organization hates the term all-in. I get what Tyler is saying. When you have a barren pitching program and you do have a couple– expensive players getting older, you're wondering how many more, you know, four or five win or seasons you have in Swanson and Bregman. But I still think this team will probably be in that like 85 win band of like, if things go bad, you know, they're winning 83. If things go good, maybe they get close to 90. I mean, they have a ton of work to do this off season. I know we've talked about guys who could become free agents and the Nico extension sort of took some of that, pushed some of that a little bit back and Pete's development.
00:12:15
Speaker 3: But otherwise, you know, is this a.
00:12:19
Speaker 4: Great opportunity to just dramatically reshape the team?
00:12:23
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:12:24
Speaker 4: Is it going to be extremely difficult to when you could have, you know, a dozen established major league players.
00:12:33
Speaker 3: Walking out the door?
00:12:35
Speaker 2: Of course.
00:12:36
Speaker 4: And so I think that's why it's going to be a really interesting offseason and why I think they're not going to sit on the sidelines in November before the lockout.
00:12:46
Speaker 2: Yeah. Okay.
00:12:48
Speaker 1: We're going to talk more about pitching. Let's take a quick break and get to that.
00:12:54
Speaker 6: Okay, Kratzy, here we are again, man. How many times do we have to tell people to get the best tickets in the house? Where do we got to go? We got to go to SeatGeek. It's been worth it so many times, so many years. The green light will let you know when it is time to go and the best seats available. The red will let you know if it's not the best. Kratzy, tell them how easy it is.
00:13:14
Speaker 5: Todd, I know it's easy, but I'm looking for the deals because that's what I do. Even so much, like we're getting such a good deal. I want you to come across the river. and we'll go to a Sixers game together. I don't know where to sit in the stadium, but it'll let me know that it's a perfect view because I'm not a big NBA fan, but I gotta go see the Sixers play with LeBron and the boys.
00:13:36
Speaker 6: And of course I have a code for you all. You can use code TERRITORY10 for 10% off your next set of tickets at SeatGeek. That's 10% of all tickets with promo code TERRITORY10. Make sure you click the link in the description to download the app and have the code automatically added to your account so you can use it later.
00:13:56
Speaker 2: All right, Patrick.
00:13:57
Speaker 1: Uh, next question here from blue line theology. Some of the 27 pitching can be improved through transactions.
00:14:05
Speaker 2: What can the.
00:14:06
Speaker 1: Cubs do this off season to build a system that annually promotes pitching prospects to the big league, especially the bullpen? Uh, before we answer that, I just want to check the other question because I think it's similar. Um, This is Joe Maddon's glasses. I know the Cubs aren't going to get better at devoted at devoting pitching overnight. I should have read that again. I I'm assuming that's developing pitching overnight, but what are some concrete steps they can take this off season to improve in that area?
00:14:38
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:14:38
Speaker 1: So this is going to be, this is a big, uh, this is a big topic this off season. Um, they're going to need to look, we, we understand we've talked a lot about acquiring pitching and, uh, you know, however, like that was the last question and it's going to be the focus of the off season. That's not the only thing that Cubs are doing. The Cubs are continuing to revamp their pitching development process. This is a process, um, you know, that, that they felt like they were on the right track with when they hired Breslow and he started revamping things and, and they had some things go going right. Whether it was, uh, Edward Alzelie taking like a huge step and finally becoming a legitimate weapon at the major league level, Justin Steele, taking some steps, uh, brief glimpses of brilliance from, uh, Keegan Thompson, uh, Javier Assad going from like this unknown prospect to really quality pitcher.
00:15:34
Speaker 2: They had some success stories. There were some, uh, you know.
00:15:38
Speaker 1: They finally, after years of not seeing anyone come up from the minors and help them, they had some guys help them at the major league level. Um, And they also had things going right in the minors where it felt like, oh, hey, we have some guys popping. We have some guys developing velocity. That stagnated for a couple years. You know, I don't like just like doing a one-to-one thing saying like Craig Breslow left and then it fell apart.
00:16:07
Speaker 2: I don't know if that's fair to do. I will say this.
00:16:12
Speaker 1: They felt like they kind of went adrift with their philosophy and their that was reestablished over the past year.
00:16:20
Speaker 2: And it's a lot of like.
00:16:22
Speaker 1: They need coaches to be on the same page as like directors and, and someone have putting a plan in place and trusting that that is going to be executed by the coaches and executed properly.
00:16:34
Speaker 2: And, and there.
00:16:36
Speaker 1: Are, you know, pitching coordinators and everybody needs to be on the same page and think a big thing that they wanted to do over this past year was reestablish that velocity.
00:16:45
Speaker 2: Gains are really important.
00:16:47
Speaker 1: We like the I think one person put it to me is like we have a North Star of like this needs to be our North Star. And this is just constant improvement. How do we maximize these talents? It is not about getting to the major leagues. It's about getting to the major leagues and being great there. And they I think they felt like there were steps taken there.
00:17:11
Speaker 2: Last year.
00:17:12
Speaker 1: Uh, the highest levels, I think what we saw at the major league level and then a triple a, uh, wasn't good enough. Uh, I think they're making changes. I think they're continuing to evolve. It's hard to give them credit when we haven't seen it yet. Uh, I think there was a, what was, uh, this was, uh, what are some concrete steps they can take in the off season? Look, I, I think they're excited about, uh, the, uh, this past class, this past draft class, I talked to some people. Do you think this can look a lot better by next year at this time? And they are confident that yes, with the draft class that they have and with the steps they took, they believe, and look, I need.
00:18:00
Speaker 2: Like, this is what I've heard.
00:18:01
Speaker 1: From multiple people up to double a double a and below they did.
00:18:05
Speaker 2: They did make steps. The velocity jumps were there.
00:18:08
Speaker 1: Like there were some numbers that were encouraging and, they felt like there were positive steps made. They weren't there ready for them at AAA and the major league was just like constant, like churning. And there was a lot going on. I think it's a difficult thing to change overnight, but I do think we can see results quickly because we did under Breslau, like for those players that I mentioned, they weren't really on our radars fully until it's like, well, we've made these changes with this guy. We did this with this guy. Oh, like this guy's healthy. And, and doing this now. So it's possible that we see some stuff. Uh, I do think they're excited about this draft class and there, there's a lot more stuff in this draft class, uh, that could, uh, pop this year. And, and if things go right, like if this is working, if this is right, if they make the right choices, if the developments that they're, if the, you know, theories or whatever you want to call them, uh, that they're, that they're going to be following, um, are those the right moves, then we should see some results this year.
00:19:14
Speaker 4: I'm staring at this graphic here and focusing on the phrasing of what can the Cubs do this offseason and thinking that it is a bad offseason to be trying to overhaul your.
00:19:27
Speaker 3: Entire pitching program.
00:19:31
Speaker 4: There's a world in which the Cubs do not see or communicate with Justin Steele, Cade Horton, or Ben Brown for like three months. They will not have access to the Cubs Mesa facility.
00:19:46
Speaker 3: I think there's going to be a lot, and it's not just a Cubs issue.
00:19:49
Speaker 4: It's going to be organizations across the game, you know, showing up reporting to Arizona and Florida for spring training, like having no idea who's picked up a baseball, who's been working out, who's in good shape, who, whatever sort of cubby occurrence might happen, shoveling snow or windsurfing. Who knows during the offseason? There's going to be a lot of unknowns. It does not bode well. I guess some of the more recent draft picks, they will be more of an ability to go face-to-face, to communicate, to work with. players who are not on the 40 man roster. And I'd imagine that would be, that would place an even bigger emphasis, uh, on.
00:20:42
Speaker 3: That pool of players.
00:20:44
Speaker 4: But, uh, you know, Edward Cabrera, like when you want a full off season to try and get him into a good place, like that's not going to happen. It's going to be a lot of kind of sending out the information, uh, giving sort of your closing messages, uh, before the CBA expires December 1st, and then.
00:21:05
Speaker 3: Just waiting to see what happens after the lockout.
00:21:09
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you touched on it there.
00:21:11
Speaker 1: The one thing is that they will be able to work with those minor leaguers. So those guys can take steps. You hope that the big leaguers... I think over the next... They have probably already started this process, and over the next month, they will... they will be putting plans in place. This is what we're doing. Um, this is what we need you to do. Here's your day to day plan. And month by month, here's how we'd like to see a progression with a plan for like, you know, it's hard to do because you don't, you also don't know when they're going to start. They have gone through this recently, similar staff as far as the major league staff, as far as pitching goes with Tommy, how to be leading the way. Um, They had to– like they were rebuilding the pitching infrastructure 19 into 20 and heading into a pandemic.
00:22:09
Speaker 2: And then not long after that, another– a lockout.
00:22:12
Speaker 1: So they did make steps during that time. It's not– I'm not saying that because I've done it once. And it's not like they created this pitching development machine.
00:22:22
Speaker 2: I don't want to give them all the credit in the world.
00:22:24
Speaker 1: It was better than it is now. and it happened quicker than I expected it to, or at least we started to see results quicker than I realized. And you can point to Boston now with Breslau and I'm sure they're like, I don't pay attention to every organization, but I pay attention to them because Breslau went over there. So I was curious that happened quickly too, but what kind of talent did he have to work with? I, you know, all these factors that I'm not fully aware of because I don't cover that team on a day-to-day basis.
00:22:52
Speaker 2: Uh, we'll see. It's going to be hard.
00:22:54
Speaker 1: Like they, they are making changes and they're trying to make this and we'll, we'll be writing about this and we'll have a, have a deeper story about what is going on and how, like the plans that, uh, they have. But it's, um, it's not a simple thing and it's not something they're ignoring. I guess that's, that's the best thing you can say about this. It's not like they're ignoring it and saying like all is well, uh, you just don't understand how well things are going. Um, There are some things that they believe are good and headed in the right direction, but it's not good enough. And the results are, we saw it this past year, they were struggling to call upon people from the minors with all those injuries. It wasn't an easy situation, but also you would have liked to have had a couple more names to call upon in the minor leagues. Okay, this one, we've talked so much about pitching, let's do a quick offense analysis. question from cub neck uh with all the focus on adding pitching do the cubs run the risk of the offense becoming a weakness but patrick i wanted to like just quickly uh do like not be not to be like obsessed with numbers here uh the cubs we're just going to look at numbers real quickly right the cubs by war position player group 37.7 war the next best were the dodgers at 26.9 So let's assume that the Cubs lose Seiya Suzuki in half and get nothing in return, get zero in return. That's about like 7.5 war. They still would have led all of baseball position player war. This isn't a one-to-one thing. You can't really do the add-subtract war.
00:24:35
Speaker 2: It doesn't work.
00:24:36
Speaker 1: It's not as simple as that, but I'm just going to, just for the sake of being quick here, they still lead all of baseball by like five war. Like if they lose, say, in half their war. So my point would be like, A, they're not going to do that. That's not their plan. They're hoping that– I don't know if Matt Shaw will be a part of this. I don't know if Pedro Ramirez will be a part of this. Like we talked about, there could be trades. And I wouldn't be shocked if they're moving someone like that. to get different types of players or pitching in particular. But one of them for sure I feel like will be a part of this, the answer there. And I think they're going to add smaller pieces that may not be like, you know, like maybe Michael Conforto-like and a few of those guys to kind of build out like platoons in the corners or one guy starting regularly or giving a shot to start regularly.
00:25:33
Speaker 2: I think we could see stuff like that.
00:25:35
Speaker 1: And you hope you can like be a pretty high level of war, uh, position player side. But the whole point is like, you need to improve the pitching and, and like we've heard, uh, you know, them talk about this. There are different ways to add up the wins. The Cubs had six war from their pitching. So if you lose, let's say eight war from position players, uh, you need to like, you better gain eight or from pitching six war is unacceptable for a playoff team.
00:26:08
Speaker 2: So like just strictly going off that, uh, I like, and.
00:26:12
Speaker 1: And answering the question, I don't think the offense, unless Alex Bregman and Pete grow Armstrong, aren't good. Like it's not going to be a, a weakness. It may not be the best offense in baseball. Maybe there's a chance you worry that it's not a top 10 offense anymore, but like an outright weakness, like a bottom 10 offense, uh, I struggle to see that when you have two guys like that and then you hope for improvement from Nico Horner bouncing back. You hope Michael Bush finds his power stroke. You hope that there's others that can help you. But you have an MVP and a guy that played like an MVP in the second half and actually is going to get down ballot votes in Alex Bregman. As long as they don't fall off too far, being a weakness I think is going to be hard for me to say.
00:26:59
Speaker 2: Being elite....
00:27:01
Speaker 1: I don't know if they can do that again. It is going to be interesting to see how they come up with it. Ultimately, I think you need a little bit more balance between offense and position players and pitching, and you can have a similarly good, maybe a better and more well-rounded team. But I understand the concern about offense. You're losing a lot if you don't bring back Seah and Happ, which they're not going to bring both of them back, for sure.
00:27:25
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I've been thinking about Seah and, like, we'll... continue to gather more information and, you know, after the world series ends and as officials show up for the GM meetings, we can kind of get a better sense of what his market might look like. But all of our preliminary indications like are not all that encouraging. If you're hoping to see say, uh, come back next year, just, you know, that's just.
00:27:56
Speaker 3: Kind of the way it is right now. And that, that doesn't mean it's impossible that.
00:28:00
Speaker 4: He, that there's like zero chance he could come back, but just sort of like setting expectations, end of the season, heading into the off season.
00:28:09
Speaker 3: That's just where they are.
00:28:10
Speaker 4: I think, I think there is a risk just in the sense of like, it's almost inevitably going.
00:28:15
Speaker 3: To go down.
00:28:17
Speaker 4: If you were the number one offense, we saw just that awful lull of the 10 game losing streak. We saw the offense did not show up in San Diego. And like, if they're, they're not able to piece together the pitching again. And the offense takes a step back. Like that's what, that's when, you know, the season goes sideways. And, and I do think, I think it was your question. Jed said like the ratio won't be a hundred to zero in terms of where they put their resources vis-a-vis pitching and hitting. And I do wonder if like, there is this pivot somewhere in there of like, they, see their options on.
00:29:01
Speaker 3: The pitching side.
00:29:02
Speaker 4: Um, they sort of redistribute the resources and maybe there's a way in which they add off.
00:29:12
Speaker 3: What is it? A Carter saying a win is a win is a win.
00:29:15
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's what I was thinking when I was talking.
00:29:17
Speaker 6: Yeah.
00:29:17
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:29:18
Speaker 3: They're not, not very dogmatic in that regard.
00:29:20
Speaker 4: So I do think there's a possibility that, you know, we're setting the expectations here and then maybe, you know, they go out into the market and find that, okay, it might make sense to, allocate differently. But look, unless your offense just crushes it in the postseason, you're going to feel like your offense is a weakness. I mean, you know how it goes. Hitting is hard. It comes in waves. And unless your hitters do it at the exact opportune times as a fan, you're going to walk away being like, Like, man, the offense needs a ton.
00:29:57
Speaker 2: Of work, you know? Yeah, yeah.
00:30:01
Speaker 1: And I think ultimately what I take away from that in the playoffs is you need a lot of pitching.
00:30:05
Speaker 2: You just need pitching after pitching after pitching.
00:30:08
Speaker 1: I watch the Brewers and, you know, they are able to send those guys out, Uribe, Ashby, to McGill, and they're able to do it in a way like, okay, just lean on them. You know, get like four, five, six innings if you can, and then lean on them. Uh, and, and it's, it's a formula that works. You don't need like eight guys in the bullpen to dominate in the post season. Um, you need a deeper bullpen to get through the season, but it's a different game come the post season. If you have like three or four dominant arms in the bullpen that you really trust or that are locked in and healthy for the post season, like that, that matters so much. Uh, pitching I think is, is like the way, like you want a good offense. You want a deep offense. You want a talented offense. The Cubs have that and have the potential to continue to have that next season. But you need to build up the pitching. You need a little bit more depth there. And it's just, I mean, we knew this, we talked about it going into the post season, like the Cubs could make a run, but can they get through this many series?
00:31:12
Speaker 2: Like with that pitching, like we just.
00:31:15
Speaker 1: Didn't like, yeah, we felt like they were super talented and that they had a chance to go make some noise. I just like, we, it was just like, a lot of stuff has to go right for them to like make a rail run to like make it to the Royal series. Like how can they do that with this pitching? So that's why I just think you have to improve the pitching. And I think, and just to wrap up on your point about like, maybe they pivot, there are ways like it, you don't have to like you. And I'm not saying like a say or a Rosarena level bat, but there are going to be bats will come for a one or two year deal. And like, and it's like 10 ish, 12 ish annually. Like that's not crazy for the Cubs to spend right now. It one move like that, along with some trades and then spending big on one pitcher.
00:32:06
Speaker 2: Like that's, I could see that. And that's an impact.
00:32:08
Speaker 1: That's a bat that could help if you get the right guy. It's about, I, Chad says this all front office. People say this, it's about being right, making, making the right choices, finding the right guys. They found the right guys on the bench this year, over the course of the season, they found a good bench. They didn't nail the, the bullpen picks. Like, so it's like, so some picks look great. Some don't, they did not have an ideal off season in the sense, like the first, especially, well, I guess the way that Bregman ended it, it washes away a lot of that. But in the first half we were talking about like, wow, what a bad off season, like all their moves, Maton, Bregman and Cabrera really, really struggled.
00:32:47
Speaker 2: Right.
00:32:47
Speaker 1: So you just need to, they just need to, they need bounce backs from some of these pitchers like Cabrera and they need, and they need to be right with their moves. There's going to be a lot of moves because they have holes to fill. So we'll see how that goes exactly. We'll be back with more. There may be enough to do another to answer more of your questions.
00:33:07
Speaker 2: We'll see.
00:33:07
Speaker 1: I'll go back and look and see if we have enough there. But there'll definitely be another episode this week. Thanks so much for listening. Thanks so much for watching. This is Northside Territory. Make sure to rate, review, subscribe. Subscribe to the YouTube channel and subscribe to The Athletic where Patrick and I are on top of all things Cubs. Thanks for listening and watching, everyone.
00:33:25
Speaker 2: Take care.
