WEBVTT
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Now imagine a hybrid of Jay Diller and Bob Diller.
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The man we're about to speak to embodies that.
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It's Joel Baker.
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Just from a couple of conversations, you're a very positive person, aren't they?
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Like you're very you see, see you seem to see the good in everything.
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Yeah, yeah, I think so.
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Yeah.
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Thanks so much for joining us, Joel Baker.
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Privilege to have you with us today.
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Pleasure, man.
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Absolute pleasure.
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Today we are at Grind Studios, partnering with Etch for a week-long residency.
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Yeah.
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Could be making some music, playing it to some people.
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But we wanted to start off by saying, giving you the opportunity for anyone who might not have heard of you up until this point, who is Joel Baker?
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Um, who is Joel Baker?
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Yeah, I'm sure you haven't heard of me to be fair.
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But I've been kicking around for a while.
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I love being in this area actually in Shoreditch because this was so nostalgic for me.
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This is where I was like all the time when I first moved to London, like 2011.
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Um I've seen Shoreditch change so much.
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Um but I mean who who is Joel Baker?
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Um I arrived here working in Parliament uh as a speech writer, and my life was very much going that way.
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But then um all the friends that I met uh were all artists, producers, writers, and I was like, I actually want to do that.
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That's that's what I really, really want to do.
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And being in London was the first time that I felt like that was possible.
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So I kind of went down that path 100 miles per hour.
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It's been a roller coaster of a journey, um, had some ups, had some downs and everything in between.
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Um and yeah, I'm an artist, I make music that's somewhere between Dylan and Dilla, so it's kind of got that folk rooty element to it, but also like yeah, I was born in 1990, so my love for like American-inspired hip-hop, Chicago hip-hop, and all of that is just in me, you know.
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Um we were swapping Wu-Tang CDs in the playground like growing up, and that's very much a part of who I am.
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But my dad loved Bob Dylan as well, so that's also in me.
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So that's just yeah, that's that's who I am.
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Um love that.
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So Dylan and uh Dilla, the good J D.
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So how how does that intersect in your music?
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What do you say?
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Is it the the lyricism is from the Dylan side and the production is Diller, or is it um more is it is there something else to it?
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It's very much that to be fair.
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It's very much that.
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So it's it's it's me trying to combine all of my favourite elements of the things that I listen to and love and putting them into songs.
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Sometimes the elements appear more in different songs or different productions, but that's I would say how the template starts every time.
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So it's like, right, I'm gonna start with kind of like a jaggedy boom bap kind of thing, and then I'm gonna lay out with some guitar and some chords and kind of see what happens.
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Sometimes it comes out a little bit more songy or folky or country.
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I just went to Nashville last year and wrote a lot more kind of country style stuff, but then put the kind of boom bap under it, which was really interesting.
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Um, and sometimes it's just it's a bit more UK-inspired, synthy dark.
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Yeah, I'd say there were releases this year quite that with uh with your work with Nick Brewer.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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So you've got you've got five releases under that under Boy Baker Volume 2.
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Yeah.
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Is there any more to come?
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Or are we doing some of that today?
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What would they do?
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And I mean, we're that's kind of gonna be an ongoing project for forever, really.
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Yeah, me and Nick have been friends for forever.
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And um, yeah, like maybe two or three years ago, Nick was at a point where he's like, I'm not sure if I want to do music anymore.
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And I was like, No way, yeah.
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You've got to do music.
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So it's like, look, let's just like start up a little project just for fun, see what happens, see where it goes.
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And yeah, so that was great fun.
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That was the only purpose of that project.
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It feels fun, it feels fun, yeah.
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Definitely does, definitely does.
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Like I I love the tune with the kind of the Monster Boy rendition of the garage and stuff.
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It's very, very cool, very like throwback, puts you instantly in that time, which is very cool.
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Yeah, um, so at grind today, what what were we working on?
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What are we doing today?
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So, today is all about finishing my album.
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So I've got an album coming called Songs in a Second Language, and I've just been on the fence about it for a while.
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I've got like these 18 tracks that have been on my hard drive, been on my like untitled stream thing for ages.
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And I just listen to them all the time, so I'm just tweaking them constantly.
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Oh, maybe it should be this, maybe it should be that.
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And I'm just kind of bored of that now.
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And I'm like, okay, let me invite a bunch of people down here to listen to them with me.
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I'm gonna set up a little live stream as well, and just listen along with a bunch of people, and let's just like see what the energy is.
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And I I am a I am a believer in yeah, like your gut will tell you what to do once you kind of show it in front of other people.
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Um like I've done a lot of like work at the moment around like kind of feedback loops, um, and your own mind isn't necessarily the best feedback loop sometimes.
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Do you know what I mean?
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Um actually the energy from other people can be a better judge of what to do.
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So that's what I'm hoping for today.
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Yeah.
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A bit of fun, open up the all the files, play the songs and see what needs kind of finishing.
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So yeah, I mean I guess that's what music's all about, it's being played and for people to enjoy an experience.
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So yeah, very cool.
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Yeah, yeah.
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That's a sick plan.
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I love that you're bringing people into that creative process as well.
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Yeah.
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Because as you say, like you can so easily get stuck on your own head when it comes to your own creation, and no matter what the output of it is.
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100%.
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So as we said, hi here with Etched.
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Yeah.
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Um, and one of the main things about Etched is talking really about how we secure value and allow us to then be a bit more liberal with the stuff that we share, yeah, and all of that sort of stuff.
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And so we wanted to talk about the fact that you you have a Patreon called the Bakery, which has different tiers on it, different ways that people can access, uh, whether it be buying you a coffee or like a whole load of different stuff.
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And I think that's such a cool way for you to be able to like give value, but also sort of extract value back.
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And so we wanted to talk about how you how do you navigate the overall balance of sort of like value on your work, especially um from the sort of songwriting point of view as well, because we all know that that's definitely something that people are advocating for more and more, is like to for songwriters to be paid like appropriately.
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So, yeah, I just wanted to ask you about that whole premise of value, really.
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Yeah, and it's it's a big question in the industry at the moment.
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I've just like, yeah.
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The value of human work and human art and all of that.
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I think we're I think we're still finding what that balance should be, in a way.
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I think ever since streaming, we've been trying to find what does that look like.
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Um it does feel like music is kind of going in a way now, almost a little bit like art, in a way, of where there are the kind of different tiers of art and what are you willing to kind of pay for.
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And um if I want to come and see your artwork, I might pay for a ticket to a gallery and come and see it in that way.
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Or um But I mean the the the interesting thing about music is it's always been about like buying into somebody's journey and personal brand as well.
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Yeah.
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Um which streaming at the moment doesn't necessarily allow for.
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I love streaming, by the way.
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I think it's uh amazing and I've profited off it.
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Yeah.
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Um you know, I was at Spotify yesterday, and and so many of my favourite artists I've discovered from Spotify as well.
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So I think I think it's amazing, but there does need to be like an add-on for like artists to actually be able to sustain themselves.
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So I I just noticed a lot in my journey there was a lot of people from around the world that just kind of wanted to buy into what I was doing and wanted to support me, but they're just like we don't know how.
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Like I can just press repeat on your song.
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Yeah, yeah.
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There's only so many times I'm gonna listen to it.
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Yeah, yeah, right.
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Um, and at the same time, I like I really know that feeling.
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So, Patreon, I'm subscribed to a bunch of other creators as well, just like some of my favourite artists.
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And I'm like, thank you for doing this.
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Like literally, like I would pay anything to see into your process, get unreleased demos and whatnot.
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Like, this is a mate, you're providing so much value for me.
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Amazing.
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Um, so I I think it's those platforms, those fan-to-fan platforms, I think are only gonna expand.
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Um sick.
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Sick.
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So you've um you previously well it's a quote from someone else, actually, but you previously said that um your favourite definition of s of success is the ability to continue to create.
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Yeah, which I think is something very, very cool.
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And I yeah, you know, as we've just said, like finding other people's expression and you being able to express is um super important.
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But then obviously we've been speaking a bit about like family life and stuff.
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How do you balance that with the necessity to continue to pay bills?
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Hard.
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Yeah.
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It's really tricky.
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Um it's really tricky, and I think particularly you know, the way that society is set up as well, is of what we value and what we see as success and value is often interwoven with money.
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Yeah.
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Um particularly for men as well.
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Um, male artists that are so desperate to make it.
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When you really unpick it, it's not even necessarily because they want to make money, it's because they want other people to look at them like they're worth something as a man.
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Um and that is it's hard, it's a lot of responsibility to put onto the art form of music, particularly in its current way in society of where people are like music is should be free and readily accessible for anybody.
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So the the math ain't always math.
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Right, right, right.
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You know what I mean?
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Um and I've I you know music has has paid bills for me, and it's been the bill for me in so many different capacities.
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So when I started, it was all minus.
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I was just paying to do music, yeah.
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And then and I was like, of course I will, like the same way I pay to go on holiday or to pay like this is the thing that I love to do more than anything.
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I'll pay to put out a project, what a privilege.
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And then it got to a point of where whoa, like people will pay me to do music, people pay me to make projects or to do live shows.
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Yeah, this is amazing.
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Um, but I think what is what's then tricky for a lot of artists is when that then goes into reverse, and you stop seeing as much money coming in from your musical live shows, and you start going, Oh, does that mean I'm failing, or does that mean and and and it's hard, it's actually impossible to reverse park into the same mindset that you had before you were making money because you've you've taken all that experience and all of that stuff.
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So it's you know, it's Leonard Cohen's got a uh a poem called Um uh I think it's called 10,000 Kisses Deep or something like that, and he talks about this idea of like living from the place of your like um invincible defeat, and I see that in so many of people like my age.
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It's it's how are you gonna live your life now from a point of like when life is always gonna kill you, you're always gonna die, you're always gonna get defeated.
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How are you gonna move from here?
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Um, and yeah, it's I for me, it's been about kind of remembering the kind of the core purpose of why I love music in the first place, and it's got nothing to do with money, literally, money is just yeah, you know, allows me to do it, yeah.
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So um, and so the things like the Patreon are great because they just allow me to do it, and that's how I treat it.
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Yeah, um, so put into this part, and all of this part of money that you invest in me will only come out in the music, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Um yeah, man.
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Yeah, sorry, that was a bit of a long way.
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No, no, no, no, no.
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Super interesting.
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Uh I wasn't ready for the poetry, but that that hit me, it was profound, it was profound.
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So I like it.
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So going back to um falling in love with music in the first place and stuff, like obviously now you kind of do everything, you do like writing, producing, singing, and rapping.
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What was your first step into music for yourself?
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And I've got a second part for this question as well.
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Yeah, yeah.
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Now, when you're making music now, what is the first thing that you do?
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Is it the writing, producing, or whatever?
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Oh, it's yeah, it's such a good question.
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Yeah, so it it has kind of come full circle.
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I started off as a guitarist, so I was just guitar mad, bro.
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Like Jimi Hendrix on my wall and all of that, just every night, just get home, headphones on, just like guitar solos and stuff, just dealing with the angst of life.
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Uh and that that was my that was my vibe, honestly, um, for a while.
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But I also I loved songwriting, but I didn't really have a great voice, and it I felt a bit embarrassed by it all, so I kind of kept that to myself.
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Um, but early days in Nottingham, I was very much like a producer.
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I'd produced for like I had a few bands and stuff.
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Nottingham's very like band culture, yeah.
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Um, and just loved that, man.
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I mean, I'm yeah, I'm so old that I actually had a like a digital four-track recorder was the first thing I produced on.
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Um I just loved it, man.
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I just came alive, just loved every moment of just of making music.
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Like, wow, we can start with nothing and then we can end with a track that I can listen to and enjoy.
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Amazing.
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Um, and then yeah, moved to London, became a songwriter, did all of that stuff.
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But um I've kind of almost come full circle and I almost like start with producing at the moment.
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I'm like, I want to for me, production feels a little bit like the the sparks on the on the fire.
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It's just like okay, can I get something?
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Can I rub these two sticks together and get something there?
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Once I've created that feeling, that atmosphere, then I'll go to go to lyrics.
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Sometimes what I try and do is I'll I'll go and try and match something up with maybe some poetry that I've written or some words or ideas that I've written and try and see if anything sticks.
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Yeah.
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That's the kind that's the process at the moment, yeah.
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So during that period, did you just say that um you didn't like your voice at the beginning?
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What did you do to either build the confidence or kind of improve your voice?
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Yeah, it's I yeah, it's a really good question.
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And it as I've always just struggled with it.
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Um, it's always felt a little bit like my left hand.
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Yeah, it's so odd that there's some things in life that I just feel very naturally confident with, even though there's not necessarily a reason for it, but I just feel like oh, this is my thing, I'm good at this.
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Like guitar, I started learning when I was 15, stopped learning when I was 16.
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I haven't got any better since I was 16.
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And yeah, I feel so confident in guitar.
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I'm not a great guitarist, but I just feel like arts, this is what I do.
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Singing, even though I've been singing a lot longer, I just yeah, it's always something I felt self-conscious about.
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What has what did help was I did some singing lessons, and that the first guy actually, um oh my goodness, I can't believe I forgot his name.
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But he's a friend of mine called um Trey Jean-Marie, who's actually a big time producer.
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It was his dad that taught me to sing, but he was so like um like Rafiki with it, right?
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You know, lying.
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I'm ready to hear this, okay, and then like beating with the screen.
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Yeah, yeah, like fully, I wasn't ready.
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Like I wasn't I just arrived like there from my first singing lesson.
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I kind of got out and I got on my guitar and I put the strap on around me.
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I was like, okay, cool, I'm ready.
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He was like, put down the guitar, and I was like, what do you mean?
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And then he like made me put it down, and then he made me say, like, like, I am a singer, and I was like, I am a singer, no loud, he's saying, I am a singer, no loud, I want you to scream at me, I am a singer, and I had to like go then go outside his house and then like scream at outside, like yeah, like and he was just trying to like he's like you don't believe that you're a singer, that's your problem.
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Well, um, and it was actually super helpful, and he built a lot of confidence in me.
00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:38.000
Um, so it wasn't just I've been to singing teachers since that's just like let's go up and down the piano, which is cool, yeah, but he really helped me believe in myself, I think, as a performer, which was really fundamental for me.
00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.000
Yeah, wow, that's cool, man.
00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:40.559
That's amazing.
00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:53.519
It's so sick hearing that those sort of like stories because I feel like it's so easy to come across like an artist and be like, yeah, well, this is all super well refined and we love it and stuff, but then it's like your own process and journey of it, it might be like so opposite to that.
00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:54.720
100%, yeah.
00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:56.320
But well, it is a joke.
00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:59.039
You've got a great voice, so that's what I'm saying.
00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:00.720
It's crazy.
00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:03.120
That's kind, that's very kind.
00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:04.000
I appreciate that.
00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:16.880
Well, listen, we're gonna take a slight pivot now, um, because obviously there's there's in the studio, and then there's like what do we do to like um I don't know, like express otherwise and to like release your mind sometimes.
00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:18.400
And I know you you like running.
00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:19.839
I do, yeah.
00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:21.839
Like is maybe an interesting thing.
00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:23.599
Maybe you maybe you run by run.
00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:32.400
But I I did a bit of digging and I noticed that you had uh a hackney half playlist.
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:33.039
Yeah.
00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:36.400
And I noticed that this playlist was two hours and 29 minutes.
00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:38.160
So I wondered, did you complete it?
00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:39.359
If so, what was your time?
00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:40.480
How did you find it?
00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:43.839
Ah, that's so funny you found my hackney half playlist.
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:48.000
Because that would be that's an insight into yeah, me maybe.
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.200
Um yeah, I I do I do love running.
00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:52.160
You know what it is?
00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:58.160
I sound up a hackney half every year because it then keeps me fit from January until May.
00:17:58.319 --> 00:17:59.759
So I'm in I'm in my off season right now.
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:07.839
Until January, you won't catch me out running at all.
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:15.680
So um, but yeah, this year was actually uh a bit of a unique year because I mean Nick decided to run it together.
00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:16.240
Okay.
00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:22.480
Um because we both do a bit of running and we realised we were getting the same sort of times, yeah, yeah.
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:42.240
And we were like, you know what, maybe if we run together, we'll go even faster because we'll be like, yo, I can't virtually um so yeah, I trained, I trained kind of reasonably well, but to be honest with you, I kind of shammed the training plan a little bit, and Nick was also expecting a baby that he's just had, yeah.
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:44.240
He kind of shammed it a little bit as well.
00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:48.319
So we're both feeling a bit nervous for the time that we set, which what was it?
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:51.680
I think, oh my gosh, I can't remember what we we said.
00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:54.720
I think we said, I think we were gonna try and do one, three, five.
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:55.279
Right.
00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:59.519
Um, but anyway, it got to the date.
00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:06.480
It got to the date, and yeah, about five, six K in, I was like, oh no.
00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:08.559
Oh no.
00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:10.720
And when you were mad hot, right as well.
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:14.240
It was hard, um and it wasn't feeling good.
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:15.519
I just wasn't, you know what I mean?
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:17.680
You know, you get that feeling, it's like, oh, I'm I'm just off.
00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:18.799
That's not the day, yeah.
00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:21.039
I'm I'm I'm something's not right in my body.
00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:23.839
So literally, like by 6k, I'm struggling.
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:28.079
By 9k, I'm like to Nick, like, I'm so embarrassed.
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:30.079
I actually can't even, I can't keep going.
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:31.200
You're gonna have to go.
00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:33.519
And now I'm like, I'm in the mud.
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:34.480
Do you know what I mean?
00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:37.359
Like, I'm in, I'm in run as hell.
00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:41.920
Like, I'm in the hole, all the voices are coming from me, like you know like the green goblin.
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:42.480
Do you know what I mean?
00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:44.400
You failed.
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:47.839
And I'm thinking, like, you know what?
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.079
Let's just like, let's just quit now.
00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:51.920
I'm just gonna I'm gonna just go home right now.
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:55.599
But I decided I'll slow it down and then I was just gonna I'm just gonna finish it.
00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:57.599
So I just enjoyed the rest of the list.
00:19:58.160 --> 00:19:58.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:06.960
20k in, so the last kilometre, and I've just I've just had the time of my life, I've just been bopping around to my playlist, whatever.
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:09.920
I get a tap on my shoulder, nick.
00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:11.200
Oh really?
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:15.440
Nick's like yo job, yo.
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:24.480
So I ran the last 10k just by myself, the last K, like someone's showing, it's like, yo Joe, like what are you doing here?
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:32.079
He's like, oh man, like 15k, and I've just been like limping and walking and whatever.
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:34.880
So we ran the last 1k together, finished it together.
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:37.200
Nice vibe.
00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:38.400
Yeah.
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:40.240
What a journey, yeah.
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:42.000
21k is not a joke, man.
00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:44.960
Every year I'm like, why did I do this?
00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:45.519
It's crazy.
00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:46.319
Well done.
00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:47.839
I love you, you're a runner.
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:49.599
Yes, as of six months ago.
00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.240
Yeah, finally, finally into it, finally there.
00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:55.839
Yeah, because you're yeah, so you're a 95, so you you're you're kind of due it now.
00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:56.400
Yeah, exactly.
00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:00.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:02.160
It's on the script.
00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:03.599
Yeah, nah, thousand.
00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:07.200
That's you have to pick one kind of side quest from 30 onwards.
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:11.440
I've done I've gone into running coffee, like with ticking the boxes.
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:12.079
Oh, 100%.
00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:16.079
Yeah, I mean, yeah, short is your shortage like right now, like that's what it is.
00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:18.160
Is it buying a ticket into shortage?
00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:20.960
And you hit the running thing at the right time.
00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:22.480
It's cool to run now as well.
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:23.680
Oh, bro, yeah, I know.
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:24.240
It's expensive.
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:26.640
Well, it's not I've chosen to make it expensive as well.
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:33.359
Because the shoes and stuff, and yeah, all of the gear and that probably shouldn't really run with a night top and Addidash shorts.
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:35.359
Like, you've got to be able to get the ball.
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:37.680
You can't be doing that.
00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:38.559
You can't be doing that.
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:40.319
You're a vest guy, you sorry?
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:41.920
A vest, running a vest and that.
00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:44.720
Or like the little nah my wife has that.
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:45.599
Uh I don't have that.
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:48.079
That's that's weighing me down.
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:48.880
That's weighing me down.
00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:49.359
Okay, okay.
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:50.160
I don't need that.
00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:55.599
I'm not running any crazy distances at the minute to warrant jails and this stuff, so we're just you don't have a little 5Ks.
00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:57.440
Do five K's to ten K's.
00:21:57.680 --> 00:21:59.039
We're building up, we're building up.
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:00.480
Half half is on the cars.
00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:01.599
How do you half next year?
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:02.799
Potentially, yeah, potentially.
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:04.319
Yeah, I get in early, man.
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:07.359
Well, listen, we want to let you crack on and get creative, it's been a pleasure.
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.519
Thank you so much for taking the time and speaking with us, man.
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:10.240
It's been very fun.
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:16.000
We've got some great insight into your creative process, into your life outside the studio as well.
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:16.559
Thank you.
00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:17.119
Thank you, right.
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:18.880
It's been great chatting.
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:20.640
Appreciate you guys.
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:21.519
Wicked.
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:22.720
Appreciate you.
00:00:00.800 --> 00:00:04.080
Now imagine a hybrid of Jay Diller and Bob Diller.
00:00:04.320 --> 00:00:06.320
The man we're about to speak to embodies that.
00:00:06.400 --> 00:00:07.599
It's Joel Baker.
00:00:07.759 --> 00:00:11.279
Just from a couple of conversations, you're a very positive person, aren't they?
00:00:11.759 --> 00:00:14.800
Like you're very you see, see you seem to see the good in everything.
00:00:15.039 --> 00:00:16.480
Yeah, yeah, I think so.
00:00:16.640 --> 00:00:16.960
Yeah.
00:00:17.199 --> 00:00:18.800
Thanks so much for joining us, Joel Baker.
00:00:19.039 --> 00:00:20.000
Privilege to have you with us today.
00:00:20.399 --> 00:00:20.879
Pleasure, man.
00:00:21.039 --> 00:00:21.679
Absolute pleasure.
00:00:22.079 --> 00:00:26.079
Today we are at Grind Studios, partnering with Etch for a week-long residency.
00:00:26.160 --> 00:00:26.239
Yeah.
00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:28.960
Could be making some music, playing it to some people.
00:00:29.199 --> 00:00:37.119
But we wanted to start off by saying, giving you the opportunity for anyone who might not have heard of you up until this point, who is Joel Baker?
00:00:37.439 --> 00:00:38.880
Um, who is Joel Baker?
00:00:38.960 --> 00:00:40.880
Yeah, I'm sure you haven't heard of me to be fair.
00:00:40.960 --> 00:00:43.280
But I've been kicking around for a while.
00:00:43.439 --> 00:00:48.399
I love being in this area actually in Shoreditch because this was so nostalgic for me.
00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:53.280
This is where I was like all the time when I first moved to London, like 2011.
00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:55.920
Um I've seen Shoreditch change so much.
00:00:56.560 --> 00:00:59.520
Um but I mean who who is Joel Baker?
00:00:59.679 --> 00:01:05.760
Um I arrived here working in Parliament uh as a speech writer, and my life was very much going that way.
00:01:06.079 --> 00:01:13.200
But then um all the friends that I met uh were all artists, producers, writers, and I was like, I actually want to do that.
00:01:13.439 --> 00:01:15.359
That's that's what I really, really want to do.
00:01:15.599 --> 00:01:18.959
And being in London was the first time that I felt like that was possible.
00:01:19.359 --> 00:01:21.920
So I kind of went down that path 100 miles per hour.
00:01:22.159 --> 00:01:27.680
It's been a roller coaster of a journey, um, had some ups, had some downs and everything in between.
00:01:28.239 --> 00:01:49.519
Um and yeah, I'm an artist, I make music that's somewhere between Dylan and Dilla, so it's kind of got that folk rooty element to it, but also like yeah, I was born in 1990, so my love for like American-inspired hip-hop, Chicago hip-hop, and all of that is just in me, you know.
00:01:49.920 --> 00:01:55.599
Um we were swapping Wu-Tang CDs in the playground like growing up, and that's very much a part of who I am.
00:01:55.920 --> 00:01:58.879
But my dad loved Bob Dylan as well, so that's also in me.
00:01:58.959 --> 00:02:01.599
So that's just yeah, that's that's who I am.
00:02:02.079 --> 00:02:04.640
Um love that.
00:02:04.959 --> 00:02:07.760
So Dylan and uh Dilla, the good J D.
00:02:08.319 --> 00:02:10.080
So how how does that intersect in your music?
00:02:10.560 --> 00:02:11.039
What do you say?
00:02:11.280 --> 00:02:19.439
Is it the the lyricism is from the Dylan side and the production is Diller, or is it um more is it is there something else to it?
00:02:20.080 --> 00:02:21.680
It's very much that to be fair.
00:02:21.919 --> 00:02:22.719
It's very much that.
00:02:22.879 --> 00:02:31.759
So it's it's it's me trying to combine all of my favourite elements of the things that I listen to and love and putting them into songs.
00:02:31.919 --> 00:02:41.039
Sometimes the elements appear more in different songs or different productions, but that's I would say how the template starts every time.
00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:50.800
So it's like, right, I'm gonna start with kind of like a jaggedy boom bap kind of thing, and then I'm gonna lay out with some guitar and some chords and kind of see what happens.
00:02:51.039 --> 00:02:54.960
Sometimes it comes out a little bit more songy or folky or country.
00:02:55.039 --> 00:03:02.960
I just went to Nashville last year and wrote a lot more kind of country style stuff, but then put the kind of boom bap under it, which was really interesting.
00:03:03.280 --> 00:03:10.319
Um, and sometimes it's just it's a bit more UK-inspired, synthy dark.
00:03:10.560 --> 00:03:14.960
Yeah, I'd say there were releases this year quite that with uh with your work with Nick Brewer.
00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:16.560
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:03:16.960 --> 00:03:20.639
So you've got you've got five releases under that under Boy Baker Volume 2.
00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:21.039
Yeah.
00:03:21.199 --> 00:03:22.400
Is there any more to come?
00:03:22.479 --> 00:03:24.000
Or are we doing some of that today?
00:03:24.080 --> 00:03:24.879
What would they do?
00:03:25.120 --> 00:03:29.120
And I mean, we're that's kind of gonna be an ongoing project for forever, really.
00:03:29.360 --> 00:03:31.919
Yeah, me and Nick have been friends for forever.
00:03:32.159 --> 00:03:38.400
And um, yeah, like maybe two or three years ago, Nick was at a point where he's like, I'm not sure if I want to do music anymore.
00:03:38.479 --> 00:03:40.639
And I was like, No way, yeah.
00:03:42.719 --> 00:03:43.840
You've got to do music.
00:03:44.080 --> 00:03:49.280
So it's like, look, let's just like start up a little project just for fun, see what happens, see where it goes.
00:03:49.360 --> 00:03:51.520
And yeah, so that was great fun.
00:03:51.599 --> 00:03:53.199
That was the only purpose of that project.
00:03:53.840 --> 00:03:55.120
It feels fun, it feels fun, yeah.
00:03:55.280 --> 00:03:56.319
Definitely does, definitely does.
00:03:56.479 --> 00:04:01.680
Like I I love the tune with the kind of the Monster Boy rendition of the garage and stuff.
00:04:01.919 --> 00:04:06.719
It's very, very cool, very like throwback, puts you instantly in that time, which is very cool.
00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:10.479
Yeah, um, so at grind today, what what were we working on?
00:04:10.639 --> 00:04:11.840
What are we doing today?
00:04:12.240 --> 00:04:16.160
So, today is all about finishing my album.
00:04:16.319 --> 00:04:24.000
So I've got an album coming called Songs in a Second Language, and I've just been on the fence about it for a while.
00:04:24.160 --> 00:04:29.920
I've got like these 18 tracks that have been on my hard drive, been on my like untitled stream thing for ages.
00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:34.000
And I just listen to them all the time, so I'm just tweaking them constantly.
00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:36.160
Oh, maybe it should be this, maybe it should be that.
00:04:36.319 --> 00:04:38.160
And I'm just kind of bored of that now.
00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:42.879
And I'm like, okay, let me invite a bunch of people down here to listen to them with me.
00:04:43.040 --> 00:04:50.240
I'm gonna set up a little live stream as well, and just listen along with a bunch of people, and let's just like see what the energy is.
00:04:50.319 --> 00:04:59.519
And I I am a I am a believer in yeah, like your gut will tell you what to do once you kind of show it in front of other people.
00:05:00.079 --> 00:05:10.879
Um like I've done a lot of like work at the moment around like kind of feedback loops, um, and your own mind isn't necessarily the best feedback loop sometimes.
00:05:11.120 --> 00:05:11.759
Do you know what I mean?
00:05:12.160 --> 00:05:16.240
Um actually the energy from other people can be a better judge of what to do.
00:05:16.720 --> 00:05:18.240
So that's what I'm hoping for today.
00:05:18.319 --> 00:05:18.480
Yeah.
00:05:18.639 --> 00:05:24.800
A bit of fun, open up the all the files, play the songs and see what needs kind of finishing.
00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:29.439
So yeah, I mean I guess that's what music's all about, it's being played and for people to enjoy an experience.
00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:30.480
So yeah, very cool.
00:05:30.879 --> 00:05:31.439
Yeah, yeah.
00:05:31.759 --> 00:05:32.399
That's a sick plan.
00:05:32.560 --> 00:05:35.120
I love that you're bringing people into that creative process as well.
00:05:35.199 --> 00:05:35.360
Yeah.
00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:42.160
Because as you say, like you can so easily get stuck on your own head when it comes to your own creation, and no matter what the output of it is.
00:05:42.560 --> 00:05:42.879
100%.
00:05:43.600 --> 00:05:45.920
So as we said, hi here with Etched.
00:05:46.160 --> 00:05:46.399
Yeah.
00:05:46.560 --> 00:05:55.920
Um, and one of the main things about Etched is talking really about how we secure value and allow us to then be a bit more liberal with the stuff that we share, yeah, and all of that sort of stuff.
00:05:56.000 --> 00:06:07.120
And so we wanted to talk about the fact that you you have a Patreon called the Bakery, which has different tiers on it, different ways that people can access, uh, whether it be buying you a coffee or like a whole load of different stuff.
00:06:07.360 --> 00:06:13.920
And I think that's such a cool way for you to be able to like give value, but also sort of extract value back.
00:06:14.319 --> 00:06:32.560
And so we wanted to talk about how you how do you navigate the overall balance of sort of like value on your work, especially um from the sort of songwriting point of view as well, because we all know that that's definitely something that people are advocating for more and more, is like to for songwriters to be paid like appropriately.
00:06:32.639 --> 00:06:35.279
So, yeah, I just wanted to ask you about that whole premise of value, really.
00:06:36.000 --> 00:06:39.360
Yeah, and it's it's a big question in the industry at the moment.
00:06:39.600 --> 00:06:40.720
I've just like, yeah.
00:06:41.680 --> 00:06:46.480
The value of human work and human art and all of that.
00:06:46.560 --> 00:06:51.120
I think we're I think we're still finding what that balance should be, in a way.
00:06:51.279 --> 00:06:55.279
I think ever since streaming, we've been trying to find what does that look like.
00:06:55.920 --> 00:07:06.079
Um it does feel like music is kind of going in a way now, almost a little bit like art, in a way, of where there are the kind of different tiers of art and what are you willing to kind of pay for.
00:07:06.240 --> 00:07:12.879
And um if I want to come and see your artwork, I might pay for a ticket to a gallery and come and see it in that way.
00:07:13.040 --> 00:07:21.839
Or um But I mean the the the interesting thing about music is it's always been about like buying into somebody's journey and personal brand as well.
00:07:21.920 --> 00:07:22.240
Yeah.
00:07:22.639 --> 00:07:26.959
Um which streaming at the moment doesn't necessarily allow for.
00:07:28.560 --> 00:07:29.920
I love streaming, by the way.
00:07:30.079 --> 00:07:32.959
I think it's uh amazing and I've profited off it.
00:07:33.040 --> 00:07:33.439
Yeah.
00:07:33.600 --> 00:07:40.879
Um you know, I was at Spotify yesterday, and and so many of my favourite artists I've discovered from Spotify as well.
00:07:41.199 --> 00:07:50.720
So I think I think it's amazing, but there does need to be like an add-on for like artists to actually be able to sustain themselves.
00:07:50.959 --> 00:08:01.759
So I I just noticed a lot in my journey there was a lot of people from around the world that just kind of wanted to buy into what I was doing and wanted to support me, but they're just like we don't know how.
00:08:01.839 --> 00:08:03.439
Like I can just press repeat on your song.
00:08:03.519 --> 00:08:03.839
Yeah, yeah.
00:08:04.000 --> 00:08:05.920
There's only so many times I'm gonna listen to it.
00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:07.279
Yeah, yeah, right.
00:08:07.439 --> 00:08:10.399
Um, and at the same time, I like I really know that feeling.
00:08:10.480 --> 00:08:16.000
So, Patreon, I'm subscribed to a bunch of other creators as well, just like some of my favourite artists.
00:08:16.720 --> 00:08:19.519
And I'm like, thank you for doing this.
00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:26.399
Like literally, like I would pay anything to see into your process, get unreleased demos and whatnot.
00:08:26.480 --> 00:08:29.439
Like, this is a mate, you're providing so much value for me.
00:08:29.839 --> 00:08:30.319
Amazing.
00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:35.600
Um, so I I think it's those platforms, those fan-to-fan platforms, I think are only gonna expand.
00:08:35.759 --> 00:08:38.320
Um sick.
00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:39.120
Sick.
00:08:39.360 --> 00:08:50.879
So you've um you previously well it's a quote from someone else, actually, but you previously said that um your favourite definition of s of success is the ability to continue to create.
00:08:51.200 --> 00:08:53.279
Yeah, which I think is something very, very cool.
00:08:53.360 --> 00:08:59.440
And I yeah, you know, as we've just said, like finding other people's expression and you being able to express is um super important.
00:08:59.519 --> 00:09:03.120
But then obviously we've been speaking a bit about like family life and stuff.
00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:07.600
How do you balance that with the necessity to continue to pay bills?
00:09:08.320 --> 00:09:08.720
Hard.
00:09:09.120 --> 00:09:09.360
Yeah.
00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:10.879
It's really tricky.
00:09:11.200 --> 00:09:24.639
Um it's really tricky, and I think particularly you know, the way that society is set up as well, is of what we value and what we see as success and value is often interwoven with money.
00:09:24.960 --> 00:09:25.120
Yeah.
00:09:25.679 --> 00:09:29.039
Um particularly for men as well.
00:09:31.120 --> 00:09:34.240
Um, male artists that are so desperate to make it.
00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:42.159
When you really unpick it, it's not even necessarily because they want to make money, it's because they want other people to look at them like they're worth something as a man.
00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:57.360
Um and that is it's hard, it's a lot of responsibility to put onto the art form of music, particularly in its current way in society of where people are like music is should be free and readily accessible for anybody.
00:09:57.600 --> 00:09:59.600
So the the math ain't always math.
00:09:59.919 --> 00:10:00.480
Right, right, right.
00:10:01.840 --> 00:10:02.879
You know what I mean?
00:10:02.960 --> 00:10:11.919
Um and I've I you know music has has paid bills for me, and it's been the bill for me in so many different capacities.
00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:14.399
So when I started, it was all minus.
00:10:14.480 --> 00:10:16.879
I was just paying to do music, yeah.
00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:24.720
And then and I was like, of course I will, like the same way I pay to go on holiday or to pay like this is the thing that I love to do more than anything.
00:10:24.799 --> 00:10:27.120
I'll pay to put out a project, what a privilege.
00:10:27.279 --> 00:10:34.000
And then it got to a point of where whoa, like people will pay me to do music, people pay me to make projects or to do live shows.
00:10:34.080 --> 00:10:35.759
Yeah, this is amazing.
00:10:35.919 --> 00:11:04.159
Um, but I think what is what's then tricky for a lot of artists is when that then goes into reverse, and you stop seeing as much money coming in from your musical live shows, and you start going, Oh, does that mean I'm failing, or does that mean and and and it's hard, it's actually impossible to reverse park into the same mindset that you had before you were making money because you've you've taken all that experience and all of that stuff.
00:11:04.320 --> 00:11:24.240
So it's you know, it's Leonard Cohen's got a uh a poem called Um uh I think it's called 10,000 Kisses Deep or something like that, and he talks about this idea of like living from the place of your like um invincible defeat, and I see that in so many of people like my age.
00:11:24.480 --> 00:11:33.840
It's it's how are you gonna live your life now from a point of like when life is always gonna kill you, you're always gonna die, you're always gonna get defeated.
00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:36.399
How are you gonna move from here?
00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:52.240
Um, and yeah, it's I for me, it's been about kind of remembering the kind of the core purpose of why I love music in the first place, and it's got nothing to do with money, literally, money is just yeah, you know, allows me to do it, yeah.
00:11:52.399 --> 00:11:58.240
So um, and so the things like the Patreon are great because they just allow me to do it, and that's how I treat it.
00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:05.759
Yeah, um, so put into this part, and all of this part of money that you invest in me will only come out in the music, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:12:06.000 --> 00:12:07.759
Um yeah, man.
00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:09.919
Yeah, sorry, that was a bit of a long way.
00:12:10.399 --> 00:12:11.120
No, no, no, no, no.
00:12:11.440 --> 00:12:12.159
Super interesting.
00:12:12.240 --> 00:12:17.600
Uh I wasn't ready for the poetry, but that that hit me, it was profound, it was profound.
00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:18.879
So I like it.
00:12:19.200 --> 00:12:29.679
So going back to um falling in love with music in the first place and stuff, like obviously now you kind of do everything, you do like writing, producing, singing, and rapping.
00:12:29.919 --> 00:12:34.080
What was your first step into music for yourself?
00:12:34.240 --> 00:12:36.399
And I've got a second part for this question as well.
00:12:37.039 --> 00:12:37.279
Yeah, yeah.
00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:40.639
Now, when you're making music now, what is the first thing that you do?
00:12:40.720 --> 00:12:42.799
Is it the writing, producing, or whatever?
00:12:43.039 --> 00:12:44.639
Oh, it's yeah, it's such a good question.
00:12:44.799 --> 00:12:48.320
Yeah, so it it has kind of come full circle.
00:12:48.399 --> 00:12:52.159
I started off as a guitarist, so I was just guitar mad, bro.
00:12:52.240 --> 00:13:01.519
Like Jimi Hendrix on my wall and all of that, just every night, just get home, headphones on, just like guitar solos and stuff, just dealing with the angst of life.
00:13:02.399 --> 00:13:06.480
Uh and that that was my that was my vibe, honestly, um, for a while.
00:13:06.559 --> 00:13:13.440
But I also I loved songwriting, but I didn't really have a great voice, and it I felt a bit embarrassed by it all, so I kind of kept that to myself.
00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:17.120
Um, but early days in Nottingham, I was very much like a producer.
00:13:17.200 --> 00:13:20.000
I'd produced for like I had a few bands and stuff.
00:13:20.159 --> 00:13:22.159
Nottingham's very like band culture, yeah.
00:13:22.480 --> 00:13:24.080
Um, and just loved that, man.
00:13:24.159 --> 00:13:31.200
I mean, I'm yeah, I'm so old that I actually had a like a digital four-track recorder was the first thing I produced on.
00:13:31.360 --> 00:13:32.879
Um I just loved it, man.
00:13:33.039 --> 00:13:37.440
I just came alive, just loved every moment of just of making music.
00:13:37.600 --> 00:13:41.679
Like, wow, we can start with nothing and then we can end with a track that I can listen to and enjoy.
00:13:41.919 --> 00:13:42.320
Amazing.
00:13:43.279 --> 00:13:48.080
Um, and then yeah, moved to London, became a songwriter, did all of that stuff.
00:13:48.320 --> 00:13:54.159
But um I've kind of almost come full circle and I almost like start with producing at the moment.
00:13:54.399 --> 00:14:00.480
I'm like, I want to for me, production feels a little bit like the the sparks on the on the fire.
00:14:00.559 --> 00:14:02.000
It's just like okay, can I get something?
00:14:02.080 --> 00:14:05.039
Can I rub these two sticks together and get something there?
00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:12.000
Once I've created that feeling, that atmosphere, then I'll go to go to lyrics.
00:14:12.159 --> 00:14:21.600
Sometimes what I try and do is I'll I'll go and try and match something up with maybe some poetry that I've written or some words or ideas that I've written and try and see if anything sticks.
00:14:21.759 --> 00:14:22.000
Yeah.
00:14:22.320 --> 00:14:24.799
That's the kind that's the process at the moment, yeah.
00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:30.240
So during that period, did you just say that um you didn't like your voice at the beginning?
00:14:30.879 --> 00:14:34.879
What did you do to either build the confidence or kind of improve your voice?
00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:37.360
Yeah, it's I yeah, it's a really good question.
00:14:37.519 --> 00:14:40.000
And it as I've always just struggled with it.
00:14:40.080 --> 00:14:42.960
Um, it's always felt a little bit like my left hand.
00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:54.000
Yeah, it's so odd that there's some things in life that I just feel very naturally confident with, even though there's not necessarily a reason for it, but I just feel like oh, this is my thing, I'm good at this.
00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:59.279
Like guitar, I started learning when I was 15, stopped learning when I was 16.
00:14:59.360 --> 00:15:01.519
I haven't got any better since I was 16.
00:15:01.840 --> 00:15:04.399
And yeah, I feel so confident in guitar.
00:15:04.559 --> 00:15:07.759
I'm not a great guitarist, but I just feel like arts, this is what I do.
00:15:08.000 --> 00:15:13.519
Singing, even though I've been singing a lot longer, I just yeah, it's always something I felt self-conscious about.
00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:23.919
What has what did help was I did some singing lessons, and that the first guy actually, um oh my goodness, I can't believe I forgot his name.
00:15:24.240 --> 00:15:29.600
But he's a friend of mine called um Trey Jean-Marie, who's actually a big time producer.
00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:37.919
It was his dad that taught me to sing, but he was so like um like Rafiki with it, right?
00:15:38.000 --> 00:15:38.720
You know, lying.
00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:42.799
I'm ready to hear this, okay, and then like beating with the screen.
00:15:44.240 --> 00:15:46.399
Yeah, yeah, like fully, I wasn't ready.
00:15:46.559 --> 00:15:50.240
Like I wasn't I just arrived like there from my first singing lesson.
00:15:50.399 --> 00:15:52.960
I kind of got out and I got on my guitar and I put the strap on around me.
00:15:53.120 --> 00:15:53.919
I was like, okay, cool, I'm ready.
00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:57.519
He was like, put down the guitar, and I was like, what do you mean?
00:15:58.399 --> 00:16:21.360
And then he like made me put it down, and then he made me say, like, like, I am a singer, and I was like, I am a singer, no loud, he's saying, I am a singer, no loud, I want you to scream at me, I am a singer, and I had to like go then go outside his house and then like scream at outside, like yeah, like and he was just trying to like he's like you don't believe that you're a singer, that's your problem.
00:16:21.600 --> 00:16:26.639
Well, um, and it was actually super helpful, and he built a lot of confidence in me.
00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:38.000
Um, so it wasn't just I've been to singing teachers since that's just like let's go up and down the piano, which is cool, yeah, but he really helped me believe in myself, I think, as a performer, which was really fundamental for me.
00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:40.000
Yeah, wow, that's cool, man.
00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:40.559
That's amazing.
00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:53.519
It's so sick hearing that those sort of like stories because I feel like it's so easy to come across like an artist and be like, yeah, well, this is all super well refined and we love it and stuff, but then it's like your own process and journey of it, it might be like so opposite to that.
00:16:53.759 --> 00:16:54.720
100%, yeah.
00:16:55.039 --> 00:16:56.320
But well, it is a joke.
00:16:56.480 --> 00:16:59.039
You've got a great voice, so that's what I'm saying.
00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:00.720
It's crazy.
00:17:01.600 --> 00:17:03.120
That's kind, that's very kind.
00:17:03.360 --> 00:17:04.000
I appreciate that.
00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:16.880
Well, listen, we're gonna take a slight pivot now, um, because obviously there's there's in the studio, and then there's like what do we do to like um I don't know, like express otherwise and to like release your mind sometimes.
00:17:16.960 --> 00:17:18.400
And I know you you like running.
00:17:18.640 --> 00:17:19.839
I do, yeah.
00:17:20.079 --> 00:17:21.839
Like is maybe an interesting thing.
00:17:21.920 --> 00:17:23.599
Maybe you maybe you run by run.
00:17:26.960 --> 00:17:32.400
But I I did a bit of digging and I noticed that you had uh a hackney half playlist.
00:17:32.640 --> 00:17:33.039
Yeah.
00:17:33.279 --> 00:17:36.400
And I noticed that this playlist was two hours and 29 minutes.
00:17:36.480 --> 00:17:38.160
So I wondered, did you complete it?
00:17:38.319 --> 00:17:39.359
If so, what was your time?
00:17:39.519 --> 00:17:40.480
How did you find it?
00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:43.839
Ah, that's so funny you found my hackney half playlist.
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:48.000
Because that would be that's an insight into yeah, me maybe.
00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:51.200
Um yeah, I I do I do love running.
00:17:51.279 --> 00:17:52.160
You know what it is?
00:17:52.400 --> 00:17:58.160
I sound up a hackney half every year because it then keeps me fit from January until May.
00:17:58.319 --> 00:17:59.759
So I'm in I'm in my off season right now.
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:07.839
Until January, you won't catch me out running at all.
00:18:08.240 --> 00:18:15.680
So um, but yeah, this year was actually uh a bit of a unique year because I mean Nick decided to run it together.
00:18:16.079 --> 00:18:16.240
Okay.
00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:22.480
Um because we both do a bit of running and we realised we were getting the same sort of times, yeah, yeah.
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:42.240
And we were like, you know what, maybe if we run together, we'll go even faster because we'll be like, yo, I can't virtually um so yeah, I trained, I trained kind of reasonably well, but to be honest with you, I kind of shammed the training plan a little bit, and Nick was also expecting a baby that he's just had, yeah.
00:18:42.480 --> 00:18:44.240
He kind of shammed it a little bit as well.
00:18:44.319 --> 00:18:48.319
So we're both feeling a bit nervous for the time that we set, which what was it?
00:18:48.400 --> 00:18:51.680
I think, oh my gosh, I can't remember what we we said.
00:18:51.759 --> 00:18:54.720
I think we said, I think we were gonna try and do one, three, five.
00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:55.279
Right.
00:18:55.599 --> 00:18:59.519
Um, but anyway, it got to the date.
00:18:59.680 --> 00:19:06.480
It got to the date, and yeah, about five, six K in, I was like, oh no.
00:19:07.599 --> 00:19:08.559
Oh no.
00:19:08.799 --> 00:19:10.720
And when you were mad hot, right as well.
00:19:11.200 --> 00:19:14.240
It was hard, um and it wasn't feeling good.
00:19:14.319 --> 00:19:15.519
I just wasn't, you know what I mean?
00:19:15.599 --> 00:19:17.680
You know, you get that feeling, it's like, oh, I'm I'm just off.
00:19:18.079 --> 00:19:18.799
That's not the day, yeah.
00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:21.039
I'm I'm I'm something's not right in my body.
00:19:21.279 --> 00:19:23.839
So literally, like by 6k, I'm struggling.
00:19:24.000 --> 00:19:28.079
By 9k, I'm like to Nick, like, I'm so embarrassed.
00:19:28.240 --> 00:19:30.079
I actually can't even, I can't keep going.
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:31.200
You're gonna have to go.
00:19:31.359 --> 00:19:33.519
And now I'm like, I'm in the mud.
00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:34.480
Do you know what I mean?
00:19:34.559 --> 00:19:37.359
Like, I'm in, I'm in run as hell.
00:19:37.519 --> 00:19:41.920
Like, I'm in the hole, all the voices are coming from me, like you know like the green goblin.
00:19:42.079 --> 00:19:42.480
Do you know what I mean?
00:19:43.680 --> 00:19:44.400
You failed.
00:19:46.319 --> 00:19:47.839
And I'm thinking, like, you know what?
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.079
Let's just like, let's just quit now.
00:19:50.160 --> 00:19:51.920
I'm just gonna I'm gonna just go home right now.
00:19:52.000 --> 00:19:55.599
But I decided I'll slow it down and then I was just gonna I'm just gonna finish it.
00:19:55.839 --> 00:19:57.599
So I just enjoyed the rest of the list.
00:19:58.160 --> 00:19:58.880
Yeah, yeah.
00:19:59.920 --> 00:20:06.960
20k in, so the last kilometre, and I've just I've just had the time of my life, I've just been bopping around to my playlist, whatever.
00:20:07.119 --> 00:20:09.920
I get a tap on my shoulder, nick.
00:20:10.720 --> 00:20:11.200
Oh really?
00:20:13.039 --> 00:20:15.440
Nick's like yo job, yo.
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:24.480
So I ran the last 10k just by myself, the last K, like someone's showing, it's like, yo Joe, like what are you doing here?
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:32.079
He's like, oh man, like 15k, and I've just been like limping and walking and whatever.
00:20:32.240 --> 00:20:34.880
So we ran the last 1k together, finished it together.
00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:37.200
Nice vibe.
00:20:38.240 --> 00:20:38.400
Yeah.
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:40.240
What a journey, yeah.
00:20:40.319 --> 00:20:42.000
21k is not a joke, man.
00:20:43.599 --> 00:20:44.960
Every year I'm like, why did I do this?
00:20:45.039 --> 00:20:45.519
It's crazy.
00:20:45.920 --> 00:20:46.319
Well done.
00:20:46.480 --> 00:20:47.839
I love you, you're a runner.
00:20:48.160 --> 00:20:49.599
Yes, as of six months ago.
00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.240
Yeah, finally, finally into it, finally there.
00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:55.839
Yeah, because you're yeah, so you're a 95, so you you're you're kind of due it now.
00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:56.400
Yeah, exactly.
00:20:59.519 --> 00:21:00.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:21:01.359 --> 00:21:02.160
It's on the script.
00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:03.599
Yeah, nah, thousand.
00:21:03.759 --> 00:21:07.200
That's you have to pick one kind of side quest from 30 onwards.
00:21:07.440 --> 00:21:11.440
I've done I've gone into running coffee, like with ticking the boxes.
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:12.079
Oh, 100%.
00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:16.079
Yeah, I mean, yeah, short is your shortage like right now, like that's what it is.
00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:18.160
Is it buying a ticket into shortage?
00:21:18.319 --> 00:21:20.960
And you hit the running thing at the right time.
00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:22.480
It's cool to run now as well.
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:23.680
Oh, bro, yeah, I know.
00:21:23.759 --> 00:21:24.240
It's expensive.
00:21:24.400 --> 00:21:26.640
Well, it's not I've chosen to make it expensive as well.
00:21:27.039 --> 00:21:33.359
Because the shoes and stuff, and yeah, all of the gear and that probably shouldn't really run with a night top and Addidash shorts.
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:35.359
Like, you've got to be able to get the ball.
00:21:36.960 --> 00:21:37.680
You can't be doing that.
00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:38.559
You can't be doing that.
00:21:38.799 --> 00:21:40.319
You're a vest guy, you sorry?
00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:41.920
A vest, running a vest and that.
00:21:42.079 --> 00:21:44.720
Or like the little nah my wife has that.
00:21:44.799 --> 00:21:45.599
Uh I don't have that.
00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:48.079
That's that's weighing me down.
00:21:48.160 --> 00:21:48.880
That's weighing me down.
00:21:49.039 --> 00:21:49.359
Okay, okay.
00:21:49.519 --> 00:21:50.160
I don't need that.
00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:55.599
I'm not running any crazy distances at the minute to warrant jails and this stuff, so we're just you don't have a little 5Ks.
00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:57.440
Do five K's to ten K's.
00:21:57.680 --> 00:21:59.039
We're building up, we're building up.
00:21:59.359 --> 00:22:00.480
Half half is on the cars.
00:22:00.799 --> 00:22:01.599
How do you half next year?
00:22:01.839 --> 00:22:02.799
Potentially, yeah, potentially.
00:22:02.960 --> 00:22:04.319
Yeah, I get in early, man.
00:22:04.400 --> 00:22:07.359
Well, listen, we want to let you crack on and get creative, it's been a pleasure.
00:22:07.440 --> 00:22:09.519
Thank you so much for taking the time and speaking with us, man.
00:22:09.599 --> 00:22:10.240
It's been very fun.
00:22:10.480 --> 00:22:16.000
We've got some great insight into your creative process, into your life outside the studio as well.
00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:16.559
Thank you.
00:22:16.720 --> 00:22:17.119
Thank you, right.
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:18.880
It's been great chatting.
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:20.640
Appreciate you guys.
00:22:21.039 --> 00:22:21.519
Wicked.
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:22.720
Appreciate you.
