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The topics and opinions expressed and the following show are
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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not
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be directed to those show hosts. Thank you for choosing
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W FOURCY Radio.
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Well, hello everybody, thanks for joining the show again today.
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Really looking forward to having an interesting show. We have
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doctor Greg Williams with us, and he is a master negotiator.
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Doctor Williams has spoken all over the world done ted talks.
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Is able to help people understand human body behavior. Look
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at what that means in terms of negotiation practices, and
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I mean he's just an insightful individual. He's also a
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member of the Marshall Goldsmith one hundred Coaches, a very
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prestigious group of which I also am a part. And
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actually that's how we know each other. I'm not going
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to be labor the fact here very much and just
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get right into our discussion with doctor Greg Williams. Greg,
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thanks so much for joining me.
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Okay, well, I could go all the way back to
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when I was four. You, Oh, you don't want me
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to go back that far.
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Sure, No, I don't think so.
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No.
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So you're a good guy. You probably had You're a
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big guy. You probably had to negotiate your way through
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a lot of different things.
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Well, I did, and even Okay, I'll tell you a
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brief story when I was four. When I was four,
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I was allowed to shine shoes. My parents allowed me
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to shine shoes at the corner bar, which was about
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three or four doors away from our home, and I
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used to observe how I interacted with people at four
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years old, not understanding that I was negotiating, but I
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also was observing body language signals that would allow me
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to readjust my pitch shoeshine, sir, shoeshine, sir, mister Johnson,
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would you like a shoe shine, sir? One of those things. Now,
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let's progress past that point, because when I prior to
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leaving Corporate America, I was a vice president of an
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organization and my division had the highest sales amongst all
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divisions in the corporation. The president asked me, what are
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you doing differently than everyone else, and I said, well,
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I've taught my fluke how to negotiate better, and negotiation
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is something that we do every day, yeah, constantly. And
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the way I started practicing more or acquiring more skills
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about the negotiation process is observing what worked, what didn't work.
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And then as I grew deeper into my negotiation expertise,
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I read all kinds of books. Again, I started speaking
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throughout the world about the negotiation process and attended institutions
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whereby I was able to enhance my negotiation skills. And Linda,
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I said, a moment ago, we're constantly negotiating. That's my motto.
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You're always negotiating. So for me, negotiation is somewhat of
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a fun process because I believe in every situation, a
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when is somewhere to occur. You just have to make
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sure you can dig deep enough to pull it out.
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Wow wow, So how do you dig deep enough to
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pull it out?
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Greg, Well, that depends on the situation, what people want
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from the negotiation and the relationship to what degree one
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wants to preserve it. Later on, I say, all of
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that is simply state, you and I are negotiating from
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a win win perspective, and I want to preserve the
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relationship as well as you, we will negotiate more, let's say, gently,
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than otherwise would be the case if we had a
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win lose perspective from either of our sides. You have
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a well, the only way I can win is if
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Greg loses or if I have that same perspective. If
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we have that mindset, we're going to have much of
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a more of a rigorous interaction, and more than likely
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it will not be as respectful as with the first
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situation that I actually spoke about. So how do you
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dig deeper? If let's take the win win situation? So, Linda,
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what would it take to have this be perceived by
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you as a successful negotiation outcome? You give me your perspective.
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I'm listening to it, and not only am I listening
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to what you say, I'm listening to the words that
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you use to represent your thoughts, and I'm listening to
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how you are positioning yourself with those words. I'm also
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observing the body language that comes along with that from
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a nonverbals perspective, and I'm looking and listening to the
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tonality that you're also using. Well, Greg, I'd love to
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see us come out with a situation that allows both
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of us to feel as though we walked away satisfied
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and happy. Now let's flip that over to the wind
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lose perspective. Yeah, well, Greg, look, this is the way
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that we're going to do this. If we can do
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it this way, we'll be happy. I need ninety percent
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of this outcome, and yes, I'll give you ten percent
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for now. In the future, though somewhere down the line,
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hopefully I can give you a greater return. Are you
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in agreement? Now you've heard the tonality difference and you've
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heard difference. Yeah, totally exactly. So those are some of
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the aspects that one has to consider when you're going
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to dig deeper, because in certain cases, you may want
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to let that other individual, that last individual type take
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you down a particular path to see how far they
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would take you down that path, and then you can
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flip the script on them. So, again, to answer your question,
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it depends on how deep you want to dig based
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on the styles of the negotiators, what they want, and
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the demeanor they display while they're negotiating.
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Well, and how do you determine which style you're going
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to use, because sometimes you don't really know what type
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of negotiation it's going to be.
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Well, in high stakes negotiations with some of my clients,
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as an example, we have done extensive research on the
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opposition for why they are even negotiating with us, what
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are their alternatives, and to what degree they may walk
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away from the negotiation based on leverage that they or
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we apply in the negotiation. So I say all of
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that to say one should never walk into a negotia blindly.
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That's to say, not knowing anything about the other party. Okay,
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let's say if it's a milder relationship type of environment
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that you walk into and you don't know anything about
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the opposition, you can take a neutral position. So for example,
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you're seeing me now, and for those that are listening
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to it, I've adopted a real neutral stance. Even in
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my position, I'm not leaning forward, I'm not really leaning back.
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I'm just there. And what I'm doing, even with my tonality,
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is not trying to express any positional perspective that I
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have based on the tonality that I'm using, as opposed
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to if I'm talking at this particular level there's a
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sense of anxiety that I'm conveying, and it may be
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picked up by an astute opposition or if I'm talking
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with this tonality, it also cast a different perspective of saying, well,
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he sounds like someone of authority. So there's a positioning
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PERSPECTI that even if you don't know that individual, you
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can position yourself such that you allow them to let
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you know more about them. So I would ask you questions, So, Linda,
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how are you doing today? And you would give me
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some response. Again, I'm gauging based even on your response,
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and again word choice along with your nonverbal displays what
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your demeanor is. Then I'm listening intently to how you
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position yourself because and so doing, you're telling me through
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verbal and nonverbal conveyance, exactly how you feel, what you want,
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and how far you're willing to go. And I made
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them turn around and ask probing questions. I appreciate the
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fact that you're negotiating with me. Why did you choose
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to do so? So I'm going to ask you as
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many questions as I possibly can. And just as a sidebar,
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the person asking questions in a negotiation to the degree
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that they're getting answers is leading the negotiation. Why, because
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they're gathering more information from which to position reposition, reposition,
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reposition themselves.
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Yeah, and they're controlling the conversation.
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Definitely. So exactly, they are controlling the conversation. Again, as
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an aside, I was speaking at some event and I had.
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You were just in Lithuania, weren't you.
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Yes, I was just in Lithuania. But well, that was
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a different story that I was about to tell.
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Well, tell the story you were about to tell.
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Okay, Well, I brought a lady up on stage, and
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I was displaying the fact of how you use questions
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to gather information and you can sidestep questions if you
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choose to do so. So I asked her to ask
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me a question, and she said, well, where were you born?
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I said, well, why do you want to know? And
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she said, oh, I just I'm interested to know the
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people that I engage with per their background. I said, oh,
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and what do you plan to do with that information?
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And she said, well, I'm not exactly sure. And I said, well,
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if you were sure, And again the point was in
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that situation, answering questions with the question to control the
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flow of the negotiation. And finally she said, you're not
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asking answering any of my questions, and I said, is
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that bothering you? And of course what he is laughed
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because they realize again I still wasn't answering it. But
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that's how you use questions to actually control a negotiation.
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And again, to the degree someone allows you to do so,
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by answering your questions, you're in greater control. Now you
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were asking about me speaking in Lithuania, reason.
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Yes, what was that like?
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Oh? What was it like? Yeah? Very interesting from the
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perspective of there's a cultural difference from the mannerisms displayed,
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which is a good topic that we can discuss right now.
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I'd like to discuss that the.
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Cultural difference from which body language is displayed, even to
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what degree people are willing to interact with you, how
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far apart they're willing to stand, to display comfort or
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when they are not comfortable, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera,
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and even the pace of speech. So in that case,
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when I spoke to a live audience and they were
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about a thousand people in the audience, one of the
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things I did prior to speaking was walk around the auditorium,
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speaking to several different groups of people just to get
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them warmed up with me. And why did I do that?
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I did that so they wouldn't think, Okay, well, here's
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this foreigner as American that has come here to tell
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us this, that or the other. I wanted to know
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what was of interest to them, and I spoke about
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that from the stage to the degree that I was
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able to bring that in to the conversation's flow. And
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I'll tell you, the people were super nice, and they
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came up afterwards bought lots of my books. And as
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a matter of fact, just this morning, I got a
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request from the promoter to do a webinar follow up
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webinar fan.
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Of course, and the name of your book is tell
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our audience, Well, you have several books, but what was
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the one that last?
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Two? Body Language Secrets to win more negotiations. And as
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a matter of fact, I kind of keep a copy
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handy just so I can display it. And the other
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one is negotiating with a bully.
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Oh, how that's that's interesting. Both they're interesting.
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Well, well, yes, And the reason the publisher asked me
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to write both of these books was because body language
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plays an integral part in any Again, you know, people
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could say I agree with you, and for those that
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are listening to this, I was shaking my head no
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as I was saying I agree with you. And again
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the body allas, what's to stay in the state of comfort.
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So when the body is out of that state, it
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will do something to justify why it's out of that
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state in order to put itself back into that state
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of comfort. So in the case when someone is shaking
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their head no and saying yes, follow the body. Ignore
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the words. The body is telling the truth. And if
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you saw that while you were negotiating with someone, you
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would kind of ask them a question in the form
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of a follow up.
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What would you ask them, Ah.
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Well, you know, I saw I heard your words, but
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you were shaking your head no. Can you explain the difference.
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That's one way to do it. The other thing is
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to observe, even before you get to that point, how
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someone uses their body in different situations, such that you
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have a foundation to compare something later too. So in
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the case where someone is shaking their head no and
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actually saying yes, in some situations, that might be that
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person's way of indicating yes, or the degree of profoundness
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that they are expressing yes, even though they're shaking their
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head no. So again there's not one size fits all
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when it comes to reading and deciphering body length. Thus
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the reason why you had to form a foundation for
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how an individual uses their body when they are communicating,
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and based on the environment, they may shift the perspective
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for how they use their body. And again I said,
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the body always wants to stay in a state of comfort.
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So if someone is in an environment that feels unfamiliar
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to them or threatening, they will react differently in that
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environment if instead they were in an environment where they
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felt safe and open. So those are some of the justice.
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Even if it's even as I'm speaking, you may notice,
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for those that can see this visually, that my hands
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are open and I'm reaching out. Now here's a little sidebar. Also,
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note how people use their hands when they're speaking. If
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you're always speaking using gestures, because it helps your brain
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to formulate the thoughts that you have number one and
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number two, it's a gateway for how you're going to
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represent yourself. Here's a little thing I tell people from
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time to time. Sit on your hands and try to
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speak without using your hands. For ninety seconds or so
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about something and try to think about the fact that
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you're not using your hands. I did it recently with
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an audience and one lady was able to last for
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maybe seven seconds and that was it. It's just naturally
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started using our hands. And so those are some gestures
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that you can observe when people were speaking and at
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the same time understand what someone is conveying via their
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different gesture. Sometimes with the hands and palms faced out
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means stop of the time. Some people may use that
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same gesture to suggest, well, you know what, I like
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what you're doing. So again you have to understand how
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each individual is using their gestures to represent their thought.
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So tell me about the bully, and then I want
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to go back to the answering the questions with other
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questions and other questions. I think our politicians have learned
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that technique.
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It's all going sure, And you asked about in the
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beginning some of my negotiation advancements. I've run for political
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office twice in the United I knew that, yeah, yes,
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and politicians are very adept not answering questions by asking
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a question. And or there's something called bridge and block
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block and bridge I'm sorry, block and bridge. So someone
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may pose a question what type of day are we
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having today? Or what type of day are you having today? Well,
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that's a good question, Linda. I appreciate you asking it,
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and let me tell you something that's related to that.
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When you're negotiating, you have to be observant of how
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people use body language from you know, and they're off
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on answering what it is they want you to know.
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Or I've done tons of TV interviews and there are
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times when truth be known, an interviewer will try to
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throw a gotcha question that I've always been prepared for
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because I use that same block and bridge technique to
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do just that. So now back to the bully and aspect.
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Let's get to the bully.
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Yes, there are I talked about the wind lose perspective earlier.
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There are some individuals that have, for whatever reason, the
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perspective that the only way for them to win is
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to have you lose. Bullies adopt that same type of
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mindset and they will test you sometimes to find out
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how far they can push you in order to get
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you to do what you wish to do.
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I also stated what you wish to do or what
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they wish you what.
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They wish you to do. Thank you, thank you, thank
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you what they wish you to do. So as an example,
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someone and then the goa may say, dog on it. Look,
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I'm getting tired of this. Either you accept the offer,
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or we can conclude the negotiation right now. Now, there's
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several ways that you can address that perspective. Say nothing
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now for the listeners, that's not dead air. That was
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me just pausing and not saying word. I have used
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that technic in negotiations when negotiating with someone that was
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very stritent, someone that was almost or in some cases
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a real bully negotiator type, and eventually they'll say something
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like did you hear what I said?
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They can't stand it?
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Yeah, I heard what you Yeah. My thought is my question,
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why did you say it?
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Yeah?
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Now, I notice I've adopted a common demeanor at that
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particular point in time, because with a bully, be mindful
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of how you escalate a situation because to the degree
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that they will escalate. If you escalate and they escalate
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and you escalate, you really can lose control of negotiation. Again,
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if you've done your homework prior to entering the negotiation,
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with this type of individual, you already know that they
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have certain traits that may classify them as a bully,
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and you've adopted strategies per how you're going to engage
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with them and how you're going to deal with them
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if they use bullying tactics. What I just spoke of
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a moment ago of using silence and then a softer
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tonality is one way to see if the bully will
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adjust their demeanor. Now, let's say if they take it
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down a notch. Well, I'm a little frustrated, and I
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guess that's why I said it. Now you know that
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you have a different perspective from which to engage this individual. Well,
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tell me what's happening. Well, I'm under a lot of stress.
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My boss told me I have to get this negotiation done. Well,
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what does that mean? Get it done? And so if
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you adopt that demeanor against that individual, you've now formed
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a team with the individual. Let's talk about how we
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can really reach a bottom line that will make both
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parties happy. Okay, I apologize for my behavior before. Now
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you completely changed that person's demeanor. Let's flip that and
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say the individual all of a sudden escalates the situation. Look,
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I thought we had an agreement before we came to
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the negotiation table, and therefore now I feel as though
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you're wasting my time.
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And there's a silence again.
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Yeah, there's a silence again, exactly followed up with possibly
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a question, why do you need time? I were negotiating
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in good faith? From my perspective, wouldn't you agree to that? No?
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I don't agree to that. Well, what would you consider
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good faith negotiation? Well, if you just said yes to
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the agreement, if my chance, I made the same offer
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to you that you're making to me, would you accept it? Yes?
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I would. Okay, let's flip the script. Accept the offer.
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So now you put them in a position of looking
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at themselves in the mirror sotuce And two things happened
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right there. If they said yes, they would up the offer.
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And let's say, going back to that ninety ten that
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I offered that I made before. Yeah, now they're the
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ones at the temper cent on the temper cent side,
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and they just said they'd accept the offer. Chances are
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they going to go wait a bite?
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Who who Whooah?
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No, I can't accept the offer, which then exposes to
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them the unequalness in and of the UH and that's
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another way to bring them back to a rational state
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of mind.
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Wow, very interesting. Do you use any of this greg
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school bullying? I mean, have anybody brought you in to
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do that?
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Yes. As a matter of fact, I have spoken throughout
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my career at certain schools because kids in particular have
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not formulated the right mindset in some cases of being
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accepted by others, and they feel as though they had
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the bully of the kids because of it, or to
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show that they need to be respected, or things of
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that nature. As a matter of fact, I talked about
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when I was kid growing up in actually in Philadelphia
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at four years old. As a kid growing up in Philadelphia,
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it was a very let's say, challenging environment at times because.
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My husband was from South Philly. Greg, So I my
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husband was from South Philly, and I know the situation.
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Yeah exactly. And in my neighborhood, if someone stepped on
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another individual's toe or foot by mistake and did not
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say excuse me and or say excuse me in the
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right manner with the right demeanor, bam, you punched.
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Just a lot.
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That was the environment, and it was somewhat tough. So
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I talked to kids about understanding the reaction of their
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action and what do I mean by that, or I
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should say, the actions that will come forth as the
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result of their action. And I speak to them about
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before you act, think, And that's the message that I
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can to them, before you act, think what's going to
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happen if I do this? Because sad to say, I've
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seen kids really hurt badly as a result when I
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was a kid growing up and even afterwards because they
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did not act appropriately yah, whatever that was for the
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particular environment. And I tell them a bully is trying
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to seek attention, that's what they really want. And when
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you're dealing with a bully, at times there are ways
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to use leverage in order to make the bully change
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their perspective.
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Very interesting, So, as we're coming to the close of
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this show, what three things would you say to people
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are the most important things to keep in mind when
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they're in a negotiating environment. And as you say, almost
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everything you do is a negotiation at some form or fashion.
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Well, three things be very you observe it of body
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and nonverbal cues that people emit when they're communicating with you.
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Someone leaning in and using a soft tonality is displaying interest.
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Someone leaning in and displaying a harsher demeanor, it's most
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likely trying to threaten you or to get you to
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do something that you otherwise would not want to do.
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Using the same gestures, if someone is leaning back, they
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could be conveying the fact that they're not interested. If
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they look away momentarily, they may literally be processing information.
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Those are just quick things to observe when you're negotiating.
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Observe people's hands also, so again, the body language aspect
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is something that I always suggest people pay attention to
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when they're communicating with people. Number two, pay attention to
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the words that people use to thoughts. It's a nice
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day has a different connotation than the sky is blue
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and sunny. Okay, you say that's my new Yes it is,
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but it represents my new difference of thought process of
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the person that's actually conveying such sentiments. Number Three, I'll
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say it again and again and again. Remember that you
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are always negotiating. Even if you're interacting with someone at
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a level where you're saying good morning, you are conveying
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your feelings to that individual, and that individual is getting
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the perception of perspective of who and what you are.
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Good morning says something different good morning, and people, hey
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y'all always other data. Yeah, yeah, hi y'all, Hey y'all.
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There you go, there you go. The cultural difference also
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a boy, boy, we have more time leader, we can
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really delevential difference and how to mirror someone to the
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degree that you really wish to connect with them versus not.
438
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Well, well, we're gonna have to have a part two,
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Greg of this. We're gonna have to have a part two.
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And there's I'm just gonna make a quick comment. Even
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neighbors can have pretty nasty negotiations. I just had one
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with my neighbor over a property line dispute, and it's
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it's just it's like, oh, well, so what do I do.
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I'm getting a surveyor and a lawyer and we'll see
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where it goes exactly exactly. You know. It's it's people.
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People get their backs up. It's crazy. So, Greg, how
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do people get a hold of you? How do they
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how do they get you into their organizations? Because all
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organizations are loaded with levels and degrees of negotiation, and
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companies that waste time in win lose negotiations generally lose overall,
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So how did they get a hold of you?
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They can reach me via email at Greg that's g
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R e G at the th G Master m A
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s T E R Negotiator n E G O t
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I A t O dot com. They can also go
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to my website, which is www dot the maaster Negotiator
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dot com.
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That's terrific. Well, thank you so much for being on
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the show. I really appreciate it. I learned a lot
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from it, and I'm sure that my listeners did too,
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And we will do a part two.
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That sounds good. Linda, once again, thank you for two things.
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Number one for inviting me to the show and also
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for being a caring, giving person that's always willing to
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extend help to others throughout them.
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Oh, thank you. I really appreciate it. I loved seeing
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you in London. We had such a good time, Yes,
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we really did. Anyway, Thanks a whole bunch, Greg, and
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to my listeners, thank you all for listening and tune
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in next week for the next show.
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solely those of the hosts and their guests and not
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Well, hello everybody, thanks for joining the show again today.
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Really looking forward to having an interesting show. We have
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doctor Greg Williams with us, and he is a master negotiator.
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Doctor Williams has spoken all over the world done ted talks.
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Is able to help people understand human body behavior. Look
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at what that means in terms of negotiation practices, and
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I mean he's just an insightful individual. He's also a
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member of the Marshall Goldsmith one hundred Coaches, a very
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prestigious group of which I also am a part. And
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actually that's how we know each other. I'm not going
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to be labor the fact here very much and just
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get right into our discussion with doctor Greg Williams. Greg,
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thanks so much for joining me.
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Okay, well, I could go all the way back to
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when I was four. You, Oh, you don't want me
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to go back that far.
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Sure, No, I don't think so.
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No.
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So you're a good guy. You probably had You're a
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big guy. You probably had to negotiate your way through
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a lot of different things.
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Well, I did, and even Okay, I'll tell you a
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brief story when I was four. When I was four,
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I was allowed to shine shoes. My parents allowed me
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to shine shoes at the corner bar, which was about
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three or four doors away from our home, and I
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used to observe how I interacted with people at four
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years old, not understanding that I was negotiating, but I
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also was observing body language signals that would allow me
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to readjust my pitch shoeshine, sir, shoeshine, sir, mister Johnson,
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would you like a shoe shine, sir? One of those things. Now,
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let's progress past that point, because when I prior to
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leaving Corporate America, I was a vice president of an
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organization and my division had the highest sales amongst all
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divisions in the corporation. The president asked me, what are
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you doing differently than everyone else, and I said, well,
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I've taught my fluke how to negotiate better, and negotiation
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is something that we do every day, yeah, constantly. And
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the way I started practicing more or acquiring more skills
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about the negotiation process is observing what worked, what didn't work.
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And then as I grew deeper into my negotiation expertise,
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I read all kinds of books. Again, I started speaking
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throughout the world about the negotiation process and attended institutions
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whereby I was able to enhance my negotiation skills. And Linda,
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I said, a moment ago, we're constantly negotiating. That's my motto.
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You're always negotiating. So for me, negotiation is somewhat of
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a fun process because I believe in every situation, a
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when is somewhere to occur. You just have to make
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sure you can dig deep enough to pull it out.
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Wow wow, So how do you dig deep enough to
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pull it out?
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Greg, Well, that depends on the situation, what people want
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from the negotiation and the relationship to what degree one
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wants to preserve it. Later on, I say, all of
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that is simply state, you and I are negotiating from
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a win win perspective, and I want to preserve the
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relationship as well as you, we will negotiate more, let's say, gently,
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than otherwise would be the case if we had a
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win lose perspective from either of our sides. You have
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a well, the only way I can win is if
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Greg loses or if I have that same perspective. If
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we have that mindset, we're going to have much of
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a more of a rigorous interaction, and more than likely
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it will not be as respectful as with the first
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situation that I actually spoke about. So how do you
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dig deeper? If let's take the win win situation? So, Linda,
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what would it take to have this be perceived by
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you as a successful negotiation outcome? You give me your perspective.
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I'm listening to it, and not only am I listening
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to what you say, I'm listening to the words that
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you use to represent your thoughts, and I'm listening to
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how you are positioning yourself with those words. I'm also
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observing the body language that comes along with that from
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a nonverbals perspective, and I'm looking and listening to the
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tonality that you're also using. Well, Greg, I'd love to
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see us come out with a situation that allows both
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of us to feel as though we walked away satisfied
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and happy. Now let's flip that over to the wind
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lose perspective. Yeah, well, Greg, look, this is the way
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that we're going to do this. If we can do
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it this way, we'll be happy. I need ninety percent
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of this outcome, and yes, I'll give you ten percent
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for now. In the future, though somewhere down the line,
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hopefully I can give you a greater return. Are you
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in agreement? Now you've heard the tonality difference and you've
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heard difference. Yeah, totally exactly. So those are some of
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the aspects that one has to consider when you're going
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to dig deeper, because in certain cases, you may want
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to let that other individual, that last individual type take
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you down a particular path to see how far they
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would take you down that path, and then you can
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flip the script on them. So, again, to answer your question,
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it depends on how deep you want to dig based
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on the styles of the negotiators, what they want, and
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the demeanor they display while they're negotiating.
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Well, and how do you determine which style you're going
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to use, because sometimes you don't really know what type
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of negotiation it's going to be.
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Well, in high stakes negotiations with some of my clients,
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as an example, we have done extensive research on the
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opposition for why they are even negotiating with us, what
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are their alternatives, and to what degree they may walk
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away from the negotiation based on leverage that they or
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we apply in the negotiation. So I say all of
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that to say one should never walk into a negotia blindly.
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That's to say, not knowing anything about the other party. Okay,
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let's say if it's a milder relationship type of environment
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that you walk into and you don't know anything about
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the opposition, you can take a neutral position. So for example,
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you're seeing me now, and for those that are listening
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to it, I've adopted a real neutral stance. Even in
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my position, I'm not leaning forward, I'm not really leaning back.
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I'm just there. And what I'm doing, even with my tonality,
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is not trying to express any positional perspective that I
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have based on the tonality that I'm using, as opposed
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to if I'm talking at this particular level there's a
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sense of anxiety that I'm conveying, and it may be
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picked up by an astute opposition or if I'm talking
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with this tonality, it also cast a different perspective of saying, well,
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he sounds like someone of authority. So there's a positioning
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PERSPECTI that even if you don't know that individual, you
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can position yourself such that you allow them to let
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you know more about them. So I would ask you questions, So, Linda,
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how are you doing today? And you would give me
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some response. Again, I'm gauging based even on your response,
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and again word choice along with your nonverbal displays what
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your demeanor is. Then I'm listening intently to how you
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position yourself because and so doing, you're telling me through
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verbal and nonverbal conveyance, exactly how you feel, what you want,
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and how far you're willing to go. And I made
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them turn around and ask probing questions. I appreciate the
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fact that you're negotiating with me. Why did you choose
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to do so? So I'm going to ask you as
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many questions as I possibly can. And just as a sidebar,
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the person asking questions in a negotiation to the degree
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that they're getting answers is leading the negotiation. Why, because
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they're gathering more information from which to position reposition, reposition,
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reposition themselves.
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Yeah, and they're controlling the conversation.
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Definitely. So exactly, they are controlling the conversation. Again, as
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an aside, I was speaking at some event and I had.
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You were just in Lithuania, weren't you.
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Yes, I was just in Lithuania. But well, that was
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a different story that I was about to tell.
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Well, tell the story you were about to tell.
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Okay, Well, I brought a lady up on stage, and
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I was displaying the fact of how you use questions
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to gather information and you can sidestep questions if you
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choose to do so. So I asked her to ask
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me a question, and she said, well, where were you born?
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I said, well, why do you want to know? And
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she said, oh, I just I'm interested to know the
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people that I engage with per their background. I said, oh,
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and what do you plan to do with that information?
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And she said, well, I'm not exactly sure. And I said, well,
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if you were sure, And again the point was in
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that situation, answering questions with the question to control the
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flow of the negotiation. And finally she said, you're not
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asking answering any of my questions, and I said, is
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that bothering you? And of course what he is laughed
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because they realize again I still wasn't answering it. But
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that's how you use questions to actually control a negotiation.
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And again, to the degree someone allows you to do so,
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by answering your questions, you're in greater control. Now you
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were asking about me speaking in Lithuania, reason.
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Yes, what was that like?
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Oh? What was it like? Yeah? Very interesting from the
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perspective of there's a cultural difference from the mannerisms displayed,
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which is a good topic that we can discuss right now.
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I'd like to discuss that the.
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Cultural difference from which body language is displayed, even to
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what degree people are willing to interact with you, how
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far apart they're willing to stand, to display comfort or
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when they are not comfortable, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera,
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and even the pace of speech. So in that case,
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when I spoke to a live audience and they were
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about a thousand people in the audience, one of the
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things I did prior to speaking was walk around the auditorium,
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speaking to several different groups of people just to get
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them warmed up with me. And why did I do that?
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I did that so they wouldn't think, Okay, well, here's
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this foreigner as American that has come here to tell
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us this, that or the other. I wanted to know
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what was of interest to them, and I spoke about
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that from the stage to the degree that I was
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able to bring that in to the conversation's flow. And
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I'll tell you, the people were super nice, and they
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came up afterwards bought lots of my books. And as
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a matter of fact, just this morning, I got a
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request from the promoter to do a webinar follow up
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webinar fan.
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Of course, and the name of your book is tell
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our audience, Well, you have several books, but what was
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the one that last?
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Two? Body Language Secrets to win more negotiations. And as
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a matter of fact, I kind of keep a copy
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handy just so I can display it. And the other
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one is negotiating with a bully.
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Oh, how that's that's interesting. Both they're interesting.
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Well, well, yes, And the reason the publisher asked me
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to write both of these books was because body language
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plays an integral part in any Again, you know, people
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could say I agree with you, and for those that
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are listening to this, I was shaking my head no
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as I was saying I agree with you. And again
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the body allas, what's to stay in the state of comfort.
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So when the body is out of that state, it
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will do something to justify why it's out of that
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state in order to put itself back into that state
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of comfort. So in the case when someone is shaking
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their head no and saying yes, follow the body. Ignore
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the words. The body is telling the truth. And if
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you saw that while you were negotiating with someone, you
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would kind of ask them a question in the form
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of a follow up.
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What would you ask them, Ah.
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Well, you know, I saw I heard your words, but
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you were shaking your head no. Can you explain the difference.
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That's one way to do it. The other thing is
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to observe, even before you get to that point, how
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someone uses their body in different situations, such that you
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have a foundation to compare something later too. So in
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the case where someone is shaking their head no and
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actually saying yes, in some situations, that might be that
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person's way of indicating yes, or the degree of profoundness
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that they are expressing yes, even though they're shaking their
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head no. So again there's not one size fits all
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when it comes to reading and deciphering body length. Thus
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the reason why you had to form a foundation for
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how an individual uses their body when they are communicating,
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and based on the environment, they may shift the perspective
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for how they use their body. And again I said,
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the body always wants to stay in a state of comfort.
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So if someone is in an environment that feels unfamiliar
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to them or threatening, they will react differently in that
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environment if instead they were in an environment where they
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felt safe and open. So those are some of the justice.
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Even if it's even as I'm speaking, you may notice,
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for those that can see this visually, that my hands
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are open and I'm reaching out. Now here's a little sidebar. Also,
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note how people use their hands when they're speaking. If
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you're always speaking using gestures, because it helps your brain
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to formulate the thoughts that you have number one and
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number two, it's a gateway for how you're going to
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represent yourself. Here's a little thing I tell people from
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time to time. Sit on your hands and try to
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speak without using your hands. For ninety seconds or so
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about something and try to think about the fact that
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you're not using your hands. I did it recently with
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an audience and one lady was able to last for
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maybe seven seconds and that was it. It's just naturally
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started using our hands. And so those are some gestures
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that you can observe when people were speaking and at
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the same time understand what someone is conveying via their
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different gesture. Sometimes with the hands and palms faced out
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means stop of the time. Some people may use that
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same gesture to suggest, well, you know what, I like
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what you're doing. So again you have to understand how
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each individual is using their gestures to represent their thought.
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So tell me about the bully, and then I want
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to go back to the answering the questions with other
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questions and other questions. I think our politicians have learned
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that technique.
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It's all going sure, And you asked about in the
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beginning some of my negotiation advancements. I've run for political
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office twice in the United I knew that, yeah, yes,
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and politicians are very adept not answering questions by asking
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a question. And or there's something called bridge and block
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block and bridge I'm sorry, block and bridge. So someone
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may pose a question what type of day are we
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having today? Or what type of day are you having today? Well,
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that's a good question, Linda. I appreciate you asking it,
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and let me tell you something that's related to that.
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When you're negotiating, you have to be observant of how
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people use body language from you know, and they're off
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on answering what it is they want you to know.
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Or I've done tons of TV interviews and there are
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times when truth be known, an interviewer will try to
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throw a gotcha question that I've always been prepared for
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because I use that same block and bridge technique to
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do just that. So now back to the bully and aspect.
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Let's get to the bully.
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Yes, there are I talked about the wind lose perspective earlier.
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There are some individuals that have, for whatever reason, the
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perspective that the only way for them to win is
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to have you lose. Bullies adopt that same type of
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mindset and they will test you sometimes to find out
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how far they can push you in order to get
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you to do what you wish to do.
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I also stated what you wish to do or what
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they wish you what.
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They wish you to do. Thank you, thank you, thank
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you what they wish you to do. So as an example,
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someone and then the goa may say, dog on it. Look,
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I'm getting tired of this. Either you accept the offer,
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or we can conclude the negotiation right now. Now, there's
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several ways that you can address that perspective. Say nothing
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now for the listeners, that's not dead air. That was
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me just pausing and not saying word. I have used
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that technic in negotiations when negotiating with someone that was
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very stritent, someone that was almost or in some cases
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a real bully negotiator type, and eventually they'll say something
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like did you hear what I said?
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They can't stand it?
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Yeah, I heard what you Yeah. My thought is my question,
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why did you say it?
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Yeah?
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Now, I notice I've adopted a common demeanor at that
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particular point in time, because with a bully, be mindful
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of how you escalate a situation because to the degree
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that they will escalate. If you escalate and they escalate
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and you escalate, you really can lose control of negotiation. Again,
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if you've done your homework prior to entering the negotiation,
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with this type of individual, you already know that they
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have certain traits that may classify them as a bully,
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and you've adopted strategies per how you're going to engage
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with them and how you're going to deal with them
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if they use bullying tactics. What I just spoke of
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a moment ago of using silence and then a softer
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tonality is one way to see if the bully will
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adjust their demeanor. Now, let's say if they take it
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down a notch. Well, I'm a little frustrated, and I
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guess that's why I said it. Now you know that
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you have a different perspective from which to engage this individual. Well,
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tell me what's happening. Well, I'm under a lot of stress.
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My boss told me I have to get this negotiation done. Well,
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what does that mean? Get it done? And so if
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you adopt that demeanor against that individual, you've now formed
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a team with the individual. Let's talk about how we
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can really reach a bottom line that will make both
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parties happy. Okay, I apologize for my behavior before. Now
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you completely changed that person's demeanor. Let's flip that and
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say the individual all of a sudden escalates the situation. Look,
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I thought we had an agreement before we came to
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the negotiation table, and therefore now I feel as though
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you're wasting my time.
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And there's a silence again.
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Yeah, there's a silence again, exactly followed up with possibly
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a question, why do you need time? I were negotiating
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in good faith? From my perspective, wouldn't you agree to that? No?
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I don't agree to that. Well, what would you consider
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good faith negotiation? Well, if you just said yes to
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the agreement, if my chance, I made the same offer
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to you that you're making to me, would you accept it? Yes?
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I would. Okay, let's flip the script. Accept the offer.
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So now you put them in a position of looking
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at themselves in the mirror sotuce And two things happened
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right there. If they said yes, they would up the offer.
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And let's say, going back to that ninety ten that
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I offered that I made before. Yeah, now they're the
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ones at the temper cent on the temper cent side,
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and they just said they'd accept the offer. Chances are
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they going to go wait a bite?
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Who who Whooah?
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No, I can't accept the offer, which then exposes to
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them the unequalness in and of the UH and that's
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another way to bring them back to a rational state
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of mind.
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Wow, very interesting. Do you use any of this greg
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school bullying? I mean, have anybody brought you in to
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do that?
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Yes. As a matter of fact, I have spoken throughout
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my career at certain schools because kids in particular have
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not formulated the right mindset in some cases of being
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accepted by others, and they feel as though they had
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the bully of the kids because of it, or to
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show that they need to be respected, or things of
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that nature. As a matter of fact, I talked about
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when I was kid growing up in actually in Philadelphia
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at four years old. As a kid growing up in Philadelphia,
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it was a very let's say, challenging environment at times because.
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My husband was from South Philly. Greg, So I my
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husband was from South Philly, and I know the situation.
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Yeah exactly. And in my neighborhood, if someone stepped on
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another individual's toe or foot by mistake and did not
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say excuse me and or say excuse me in the
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right manner with the right demeanor, bam, you punched.
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Just a lot.
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That was the environment, and it was somewhat tough. So
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I talked to kids about understanding the reaction of their
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action and what do I mean by that, or I
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should say, the actions that will come forth as the
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result of their action. And I speak to them about
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before you act, think, And that's the message that I
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can to them, before you act, think what's going to
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happen if I do this? Because sad to say, I've
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seen kids really hurt badly as a result when I
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was a kid growing up and even afterwards because they
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did not act appropriately yah, whatever that was for the
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particular environment. And I tell them a bully is trying
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to seek attention, that's what they really want. And when
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you're dealing with a bully, at times there are ways
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to use leverage in order to make the bully change
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their perspective.
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Very interesting, So, as we're coming to the close of
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this show, what three things would you say to people
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are the most important things to keep in mind when
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they're in a negotiating environment. And as you say, almost
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everything you do is a negotiation at some form or fashion.
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Well, three things be very you observe it of body
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and nonverbal cues that people emit when they're communicating with you.
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Someone leaning in and using a soft tonality is displaying interest.
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Someone leaning in and displaying a harsher demeanor, it's most
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likely trying to threaten you or to get you to
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do something that you otherwise would not want to do.
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Using the same gestures, if someone is leaning back, they
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could be conveying the fact that they're not interested. If
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they look away momentarily, they may literally be processing information.
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Those are just quick things to observe when you're negotiating.
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Observe people's hands also, so again, the body language aspect
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is something that I always suggest people pay attention to
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when they're communicating with people. Number two, pay attention to
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the words that people use to thoughts. It's a nice
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day has a different connotation than the sky is blue
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and sunny. Okay, you say that's my new Yes it is,
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but it represents my new difference of thought process of
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the person that's actually conveying such sentiments. Number Three, I'll
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say it again and again and again. Remember that you
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are always negotiating. Even if you're interacting with someone at
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a level where you're saying good morning, you are conveying
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your feelings to that individual, and that individual is getting
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the perception of perspective of who and what you are.
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Good morning says something different good morning, and people, hey
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y'all always other data. Yeah, yeah, hi y'all, Hey y'all.
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There you go, there you go. The cultural difference also
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a boy, boy, we have more time leader, we can
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really delevential difference and how to mirror someone to the
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degree that you really wish to connect with them versus not.
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Well, well, we're gonna have to have a part two,
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Greg of this. We're gonna have to have a part two.
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And there's I'm just gonna make a quick comment. Even
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neighbors can have pretty nasty negotiations. I just had one
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with my neighbor over a property line dispute, and it's
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it's just it's like, oh, well, so what do I do.
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I'm getting a surveyor and a lawyer and we'll see
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where it goes exactly exactly. You know. It's it's people.
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People get their backs up. It's crazy. So, Greg, how
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do people get a hold of you? How do they
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how do they get you into their organizations? Because all
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organizations are loaded with levels and degrees of negotiation, and
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companies that waste time in win lose negotiations generally lose overall,
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So how did they get a hold of you?
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They can reach me via email at Greg that's g
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R e G at the th G Master m A
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s T E R Negotiator n E G O t
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I A t O dot com. They can also go
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to my website, which is www dot the maaster Negotiator
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dot com.
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That's terrific. Well, thank you so much for being on
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the show. I really appreciate it. I learned a lot
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from it, and I'm sure that my listeners did too,
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And we will do a part two.
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That sounds good. Linda, once again, thank you for two things.
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Number one for inviting me to the show and also
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for being a caring, giving person that's always willing to
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extend help to others throughout them.
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Oh, thank you. I really appreciate it. I loved seeing
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you in London. We had such a good time, Yes,
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we really did. Anyway, Thanks a whole bunch, Greg, and
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to my listeners, thank you all for listening and tune
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in next week for the next show.
