Rising Together

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Hello everyone, thank you for joining the show today. I'm
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so excited to have Sally Helgeson as my guest.
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And Sally, she's just.
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The world's premiere person on women's leadership. She's an internationally
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known bestseller, she has ted talks, she's been in this
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business for over thirty years, and there isn't anything that
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she does not know about when it comes to women
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and the workplace and leadership. And now her latest book,
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which I absolutely love, Rising Together, how we can bridge
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divides and create more and more inclusive workplace, and I
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think going forward that's going to be very important. So Bet, Sally,
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thank you so much for joining the show.
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It's a pleasure to be here, Linda, thank you good Yeah,
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I love your books behind there.
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Yeah exactly, I know, I know.
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So how did you get into this in the first place.
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I mean, we've known each other for like thirty years,
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haven't we various different capacities, So how did you.
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Get into this in the first place.
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Well, in the late eighties, I was working as a
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speech writer in a number of different corporations, and I
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really enjoyed the work, and I had great I worked
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at great companies, but I was vividly aware of the
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inability in the organizations that I was in to recognize
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women's strengths as leaders as having you know, real ideas
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that would count and could shape an organization. And I
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remember having one experience where I proposed an idea in
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a meeting and it just didn't Nobody resonated with it,
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nobody mentioned it. They just listened and then went on
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with what they were going about.
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And I remember.
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Afterwards feeling like, oh, I shouldn't have said anything. You know,
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I'm the most junior person there, blah blah blah. And
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what was interesting is the idea I proposed, which was
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a partnership with a group that identified and New York
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City public schools who might be hireable at the for
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the company bring them in. It just didn't go anywhere,
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but the next year, the robin Hood Foundations suggested it
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to the company and it became a big deal. Now,
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obviously I didn't have a pull of the robin Hood Foundation,
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but what it did, I mean, I was just you know,
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young women sitting there as a speech writer. But what
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it did was I thought, you know what, I had
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a great idea that was just the kind of idea
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that they should have listened to. And I began noticing
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the extent to which we had really talented women and
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they felt like they were part of the workplace, but
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their ideas, their thoughts there thinking about the future and
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what the company could be, were never included in anything.
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So I decided that what I wanted to write about
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was the skills women had as leaders, which was not
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a top There were books being written then about you know,
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women in the workplace and you know what they needed
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to do, and they you know, needed to leave their
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values at home and be like the guys.
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I mean, that was the theme.
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But I thought, you know, nobody's talking about the potential,
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the positives that women have. So I decided, you know,
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I was going to write a book about it. And
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the book was The Female Advantage, Women's Passe of Leadership,
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And it became kind of a sensation because there was
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nothing else. So, you know, as happened when with most
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people in their career, timing was extremely important, and I
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was able to start putting some ideas out there into
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the workplace in a way that would help shape it
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or be part of the conversation. Because this was you know,
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the late eighties, I got in on it.
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Well that, I mean, that was brilliant. You know what
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I thought you were going to Well two things I
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want to say. One, I met you at GE because
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he brought you in to help with the whole diversity
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thing and you know, helping women expand.
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But what I thought you.
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Were going to say is that, which maybe you did.
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But you know, a woman will come up with an
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idea saying at the meeting, everybody ignores it, and some
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man comes back with exactly the same thing, and all
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of a sudden it's like, oh, well that's really a
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great idea.
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Yeah, it's essentially what happened to me. But they got
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the idea. They thought it was a great idea a
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year later when it was proposed by a group of men.
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Right of course, you know, and then it sounded like
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really good to do, really good to do. So what
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are your sally, what what were your key transformation points
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in your career?
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Oh, that's interesting, Well that was obviously the worst one. Yes,
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And then I think I began to you know, I
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started getting invitations from companies come, you know, ge, you know,
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wonderful companies come in.
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Work with our group.
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You have a program talk about, you know, what women
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can do to improve their leadership style and make their
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voices heard.
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But I felt like I was a writer.
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I wasn't a speaker, I wasn't an expert, and I
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would qualify that. I mean, people would call on say,
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I'm not an expert. I've just wrote a book. And
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I had this picture of myself as just a writer
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for a wow time.
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Yeah, and then we know you can give speeches.
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You've done ted talks, We know that everything I've done, everything,
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I've done thousands and thousands of programs all over the
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orright all over the world for six countries I think
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I counted.
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And so that was.
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Really hard for me to sort of accept that mantle
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of being an expert because I was always disclaiming it,
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this is such a female behavior.
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Right, it is, you're right.
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And once I accepted that, and once I learned to
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you know, people say, oh, you've had so much influence.
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I wouldn't say, oh, I just wrote a book or
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a couple of books, because I've written now nine.
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But I was going to say more than a couple
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of books, Sally, there's a few out there, Yes there are.
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And it you know, that was a big transformation for
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me because it meant sort of accepting and looking at
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what I had contributed and what I could contribute. And
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that's how I always look at things in the last say,
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twenty years, is through a lens of contribution.
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Yeah, very very nice. Well you were wonderful.
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You and I were just in we were in DC,
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yeah together and Fiona. Fiona's been on the show and
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your talk was so great. It was really great being
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part of that panel. I just you know, I said
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to myself as I listened to said, well, you know,
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I've no always own when I love Sally Helsey. You
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always known why. So how did you run into Marshall?
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Marshall Goldsmith, who was really influential in my career. I
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in nineteen ninety five, when I published the book The
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Web of Inclusion, I was invited out to San Diego
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to that wonderful Hotel del Coronado to don a leadership
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conference for the Peter Drucker Foundation as.
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A nice, very nice yeah.
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So I was the lunchtime speaker. Francis Hesselbeinin invited me
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out and Marshall was there and he was doing a
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workshop and we met and we just kind of hit
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it off, and he had a party that evening for
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people because he lived in the area. And I went
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and we we all piled at a bus and went
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out to where he lived, and.
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Which was not shabby. No, no, no, it wasn't sabby.
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It was it was pretty fat. And I talked to
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him a lot.
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We had a good time, and about three months later
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he called me at home out of the blue and said,
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you know, Sally, I'm putting together a group of people
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in the leadership world to get together in San Diego.
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Hopefully it will happen every year. In January gave me
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the date, He said, would you be available, would you
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come out and it was just a casual gathering of colleagues,
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and he said something that really hit me. He said,
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you know, what we do is really fun, it's exciting,
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it's stimulating, but it's also very lonely because we travel
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around the world.
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We do a program and then we leave. And such
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a good point.
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Yeah, and we don't have a real group of colleagues,
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he said, And I think that's what I'm trying to start.
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So that spoke to me a lot, because i' was
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feeling that, you know, at a life, I had my
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friends in New York, but I just my life was different.
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So I went out and it was a very impressive
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group of people. Some of the people at that time
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who were most influential in the field, Jim Kusis and Bridges,
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et cetera, wondering I love both of them, Oh I know,
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I know, fantastic, fantastic people. And then Bill later was
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working with his wife, Susan Bridges, and she joined, so
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we had it was a very intimate group. We decided
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a couple of years in that we were not going
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to expand because it evolved as kind of friendship support group,
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and through through being part of that, it was really
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I don't know. It gave me a sense of belonging
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and professional, you know, connections that I had that had
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been missing, even though I know my career was going
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well and I was very pleased with it, so that
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was important. But I had this idea, this goes to
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how women rights about me to talk about Yeah, yes, oh.
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Yeah, I would love to hear. That was actually going
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to be my next question. But I just want to
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make a comment. You know, Marshall has Marshall Goldsmith for
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any you know, look him up for anybody who's watching
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the show right now. But he has been a real
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career launcher for a lot of people. In ninety five,
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I was working for GE, but he really helped me
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to that whole you know, career expansion on my part,
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and he's done that with you and so many other people.
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But go ahead with the I didn't mean no, that's fun.
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I know, and that is true. We take him tribute
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for that.
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So he brought out this book in twenty ten called
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What Got You Here, Won't Get You There, huge national bestseller,
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and it was a factus book about you know, how
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people's strengths also undermine them in their career. Right, I
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thought The book was wonderful, but I did think that
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it seemed pretty male centric. Is that a lot of
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the things that got in people's ways, like, you know,
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they never apologize, or they you know, are constantly bragging
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about what they did, et cetera, et cetera. I thought, well,
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this is not what gets in women's ways. You know.
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I knew that I'd been working in the field of
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women's leadership by that time for twenty five years, and
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so I wanted to collaborate with Marshall and what I
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thought would be a book that took that theme but
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did it specifically with women. You know, what are the
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habits that hold women back from really reaching their full potential?
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And I felt like that, yeah, And I felt like
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I sort of had a good sense of it because
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I've been on so many panels and this was really global.
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So I wanted to ask Marshall if he wanted to collaborate,
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but it took me. It took me two years to
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work up my courage to ask him if he wanted
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to collaborate.
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That's such a woman's thing, isn't it. It's such a
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woman's thing. And he said yes immediately. I'm sure, of course.
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He did.
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But what was funny is I felt like what he'd
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think was, Oh, she wants to collaborate with me because
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she knows we can get a huge advance that you
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know that it'll boost the size of her advance, or
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she wants to collaborate with me because I have you know,
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a million and a half LinkedIn followers, so kind of
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that he would see me as someone trying to glom
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on to him. But when I suggested it, he said,
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that's a great idea. In fact, I've had women who've
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mentioned that, and I have more and more women that
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I'm speaking to and working with, and I think working
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with you would give me, really would give me much
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more credibility.
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So I love Yeah. So he thought of it completely.
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Differently than I anticipated he would be thinking of it.
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And so he yes, he did say yes, And there
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were a couple you know, contractual roadblocks, but we finally
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pulled that together, and you know, we had clear definition lines.
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I was going to write the book and you know
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we know that, Sally.
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Yeah, we were going to review it at various stages
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and he suggestions, which were always good. And then but
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he was going to be instrumental in promoting it, which
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is not my strength and not really anything I love.
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And so it just worked fantastically. We sold that We've
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sold that book in twenty six languages, which is incredible.
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And I've done you know, the programs in Turkey and
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Vietnam and and you know, all over the world, China,
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et cetera. So it's been extremely rewarding and it just
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resonates with people in a way that I'd never had
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a book resonate.
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Yeah, that's good. So what are the like, the things
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that really hold women back?
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Give me the give the audience the cliff notes of
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what they need to think about.
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What words would you give to men? So we'll talk
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about that after.
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But what are the things that hold with reluctance to
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claim your achievements, expecting others to spontaneously notice and value
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your contributions.
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That's a kind of bedrock one.
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Overvaluing expertise, feeling if I just become the best person
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at my job, well, of course.
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You know, my career will will increase.
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Perfectionism, the disease to please, oh, disease to please big one,
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it's a big one. Their communication habits are problematic too,
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you know, in terms of you know, failing to communicate
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what you've done or letting other people kind of dig
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it out. So all these kinds of things are really
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really important. Not investing enough in building and also leveraging relationships,
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establishing these sort of you know, it's not a quid
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pro quo, but it's more like, let's help each other,
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let's help each other become more successful. Guys do that
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almost instinctively and women, and I feel like I can
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speak about it partly because I have almost all these things.
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It was like my thinking of with Marshall, I was thinking, like,
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he'll think I'm trying to glom on, and he saw
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it as a big win win. So that kind of
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you know, engaging other people to really boost you. You know,
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in this room, I don't seem to get a lot
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of support. If I say something that you think is
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really you know, helpful, would you just acknowledge it? Because
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I need that support in the room. That kind of thing,
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just like even.
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I mean, say, if you're a woman saying something like that, yes.
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Exactly, saying that and then building those alliances and then
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looking for opportunities to do that for other people too,
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instead of you know, thinking, well, a relationship is a
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very private thing or I don't want I want people
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to know that I value them as friends and not
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just helping me advance in my career that kind of thing.
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So there's something about this book, you know, too much
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information when you're you know, speaking to people, that is
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very I don't know, it just it hit and it resonated,
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and I think it was because it was drawn on
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the global experience. One of the things I I that
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kept experiencing is, you know, you go to Japan, they say, well,
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we think we thought only Japanese women had these habits
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or you know, we thought this these habits were just
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you know women you know in Islamic countries, right, Yeah,
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I mean it was it.
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Was kind of all the Japanese women do subjugate themselves,
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probably more than other. I mean, it's a it's a
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it's a it's a cultural thing.
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For yeah, it's cultural, and it's built into the language
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and things like that. So it's it's very you know,
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it's very deep. But what's what's interesting is these are
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universal and they resonate, but they play out differently in
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different cultures.
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Yes, absolutely, and that's just been a source of fascination
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to me.
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So this has been a great thing, and I do
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feel like I have made a contribution here that is
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pretty remarkable.
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But in terms of men, yeah, let's talk about that
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and take to this book. So it really was I mean,
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you know, men, they'll they'll.
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At first it was like, well, I bought this for
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my wife, I bought this for my daughter, I bought
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this for my life.
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But then I would start to get notes from men.
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Two things that surprised me. Number one was I heard
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from a lot of men. You know I have these
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habits too.
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They may play out me differently, but you know I
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I don't like to talk about my achievements. I want
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people to notice them. I heard a lot of that
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in a way that surprised me. I remember being with
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a really high level guy at Google who was the
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sort of point person on a small conference I was
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doing of women in AI who are like all think.
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Have three PhDs.
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But he was the head of the unit, and he
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said to me, you know, this disease to please this
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is really something that I have.
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Really, so that was fascinating. That goes with their personality
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type too. I mean, there's a connection and men.
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Have the same diversity of personality types as women have.
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Yeah, that's interesting. So that really was terrific. The other
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thing is the extent to which men said, this really
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helps me understand why. For example, you know, men will
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complain that they try to give woman a woman a job,
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you know, a job, transfer a better job, give them,
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you know, a leadership position. They'll say, I'm not ready yet.
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I still need to master this job. And they're like,
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what is going on with her? Is there something? Is
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she pregnant? Why would she do this? Well, that's the
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first thing that comes to their mind. Yeah, exactly.
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You know, unless you're past a certain age, then they're
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thinking something else, well, sick. But they said it really
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helped them understand that sort of reluctance that women have
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and to know better how to deal with it. I
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remember this one guy who just said, you know, that's
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the wrong answer.
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You know it really is.
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Yes, this is an opportunity of a lifetime. You may
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not feel ready for it, but I know you're ready
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for it. I see that in you. You have the capability.
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So take the opportunity and run.
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Run, take it and run, just do it. I'll be there.
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I've got your back.
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So you know, that's I think one of the most
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helpful thing that a number of men said that they
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learned from this. They said, you know this is this
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changed my behavior is that's fabulous.
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Yeah, yeah, so it's been it.
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You don't you know, you write books, you you know
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they're successful or they aren't. I've had both experiences. But
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when you really feel, you really hear from people, this
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changed how I do things. That's it's priceless.
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It's a great value.
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You really know, you had a huge amount of impact there.
379
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So so what got you to.
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Rising Together? What? What? Because that's your latest book. Yeah,
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Rising Together.
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I it was partly so many men. What I heard
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from men was particularly men who felt outside the main
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the leadership mainstream, you know, who were black or Hispanic
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working in this environment, or who were you know, an
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Australian working in a Japanese culture.
387
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Whatever. That was. Oh that's tough.
388
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Yeah, it's it's and it's and it's you see it.
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You know, Japanese are I mean, Australians are very much
390
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in die diaspora in the South and East Asia. So
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it I thought, you know, we we have to look
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at ways in which people can feel to some degree
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marginalized in their career in terms of being recognized. We
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need to focus on how they can claim recognition. But
395
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we also need to focus on how do you build
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a culture in which people who are from diverse backgrounds.
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And this is a global phenomenon the US not absolutely
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right global. You have people of all walks of life,
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of life and color and all sh and gender and
400
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all of it. You have it everywhere in the globe.
401
00:23:31.079 --> 00:23:37.160
So we really need to understand how to build cultures
402
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that accommodate people who are diverse. And people are also
403
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diverse in terms of their mindset in terms of their
404
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:46.359
expectations and what they want out of a career and
405
00:23:46.599 --> 00:23:50.720
their work ethic is and all these things. So that's
406
00:23:50.759 --> 00:23:53.200
what I was looking at, and I was trying to see,
407
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you know, how that shapes the culture to be extremely rich,
408
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how it attracts the absolute talent because you're drawing from
409
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:07.880
a really the broadest possible pool. And then you know
410
00:24:07.960 --> 00:24:10.039
what kinds of behaviors I'm going to look at it
411
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in terms of behavior.
412
00:24:10.920 --> 00:24:13.440
So what what are the top behaviors?
413
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Well, I think that the top behavior is being really
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looking for opportunities for recognition, for public recognition for including people,
415
00:24:26.640 --> 00:24:29.640
for asking what are their ideas and then talking about
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00:24:30.119 --> 00:24:35.000
not dismissing, but just considering, talking about thinking about it,
417
00:24:35.440 --> 00:24:38.720
including people in. I mean, this is these things are
418
00:24:38.759 --> 00:24:44.119
so simple and so basic, including hard, very hard thinking.
419
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About when you're going to have a meeting.
420
00:24:45.160 --> 00:24:46.880
Okay, we're going to have the first year and this
421
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you know, how people structure a meeting.
422
00:24:49.559 --> 00:24:50.319
Who's involved?
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Think broadly, Okay, who might be able to benefit from
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this meeting, even just seeing what's going on in the
425
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meeting so they have a better understanding of what this, say,
426
00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:04.200
product roll out it's going to look like, you know how.
427
00:25:04.319 --> 00:25:07.079
I mean when I talk to very junior people, especially
428
00:25:07.160 --> 00:25:10.400
people who are in an admin in companies, they often
429
00:25:10.440 --> 00:25:14.240
don't even know what the company does, but.
430
00:25:14.119 --> 00:25:16.480
They That's kind of shocking, isn't it.
431
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:19.880
It's shocking because there's no opportunity to find out. They're
432
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just you know, they're really in a narrow Niche give
433
00:25:23.559 --> 00:25:26.519
them some information, let them see how the company runs,
434
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because there are a lot of very very talented people
435
00:25:31.039 --> 00:25:34.119
out there, and I think this goes with how we're
436
00:25:34.119 --> 00:25:38.400
thinking about things. I know, Delta Airlines has this program
437
00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:43.480
where they are they're there. They've taken sort of having
438
00:25:43.559 --> 00:25:49.440
a college degree off the off the list of requirements
439
00:25:49.799 --> 00:25:55.039
for ye requirements for people to go into real leadership positions,
440
00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:59.839
and it's you know, so they can come up through
441
00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:03.079
the ranks and they can use that talent and they
442
00:26:03.079 --> 00:26:07.000
can get you know, the qualifications they need, recognizing that
443
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the people who interact with the customer are the people
444
00:26:10.279 --> 00:26:13.359
who have the best understanding of the customer. And hey,
445
00:26:13.640 --> 00:26:16.759
they might be running customer service that could be a
446
00:26:16.759 --> 00:26:19.359
good idea, They may have an insight that might be
447
00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:24.000
very helpful. Exactly, so you know that the culture is changing.
448
00:26:25.119 --> 00:26:28.880
Part of this is that college has become so expensive
449
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that a lot of talented people are just kind of
450
00:26:31.920 --> 00:26:33.079
bypassing it or.
451
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:34.640
Going only for a couple of years.
452
00:26:35.119 --> 00:26:38.279
You know, you don't want to graduate with one hundred
453
00:26:38.319 --> 00:26:42.279
and fifty thousand dollars in student debt. And that's very
454
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easy to do, very easy to do.
455
00:26:45.240 --> 00:26:45.440
Yeah.
456
00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:49.440
Yeah, so, Sally, so tell me what is next for you?
457
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What's what's the next big passion that you have that
458
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you're going to direct your energy towards.
459
00:26:56.240 --> 00:27:01.039
Well, it will certainly remain in this field. I'm sure
460
00:27:01.079 --> 00:27:02.680
this is the most.
461
00:27:02.640 --> 00:27:06.960
Gratifying feel to be in and it's also fascinating because
462
00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:09.960
it changes so much. And this has been the last
463
00:27:09.960 --> 00:27:14.039
few years have been extremely challenging because companies have wanted
464
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to stay below the radar with any diversity aspects and
465
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rising together kind of got caught in that. You know,
466
00:27:23.000 --> 00:27:27.440
just as that book came out, companies were being pressured
467
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to a band diversity initiatives. In fact, in the last
468
00:27:31.599 --> 00:27:35.359
two years with the women's leadership work. You know, in
469
00:27:35.480 --> 00:27:40.240
March it's International Women's Month, that's always been my big month. Yeah,
470
00:27:40.279 --> 00:27:45.960
and I've had two out of say twenty five engagements
471
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in the United States.
472
00:27:47.039 --> 00:27:48.519
I've had plenty outside.
473
00:27:48.880 --> 00:27:52.279
You know, it's kind of fallen off in the US,
474
00:27:52.599 --> 00:27:54.119
So it's evolved.
475
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:57.559
You are, you are saying that people are really corporations
476
00:27:57.599 --> 00:28:01.319
are really listening to the message that diversity and inclusion
477
00:28:01.400 --> 00:28:04.880
is really not important or whatever, and they're going under
478
00:28:04.920 --> 00:28:06.519
the radar and they're acting on that.
479
00:28:07.359 --> 00:28:10.799
They're acting on it. They haven't bought into it. That's
480
00:28:10.839 --> 00:28:14.000
what I believe. Interest that they recognize it. They have
481
00:28:14.039 --> 00:28:18.160
to hire people. They're looking for talented people, and they
482
00:28:18.720 --> 00:28:21.000
want to develop people, and they don't want a bad
483
00:28:21.079 --> 00:28:23.559
reputation among people coming in, and they look at what
484
00:28:23.680 --> 00:28:27.759
the population looks like of students coming in, how diverse
485
00:28:27.799 --> 00:28:31.599
it is. So they understand it, they get it. But
486
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:36.400
they're trying to fly under the radar in this particular
487
00:28:36.640 --> 00:28:41.400
period by not having any big conferences, etc. Making any
488
00:28:41.400 --> 00:28:45.920
big statements and they're trying to fly under the radar
489
00:28:45.960 --> 00:28:48.440
and just wait till this period passes.
490
00:28:48.599 --> 00:28:51.359
Essentially, Sally, that was beautifully said.
491
00:28:51.680 --> 00:28:57.920
That was very tactically said, I mean tech tactfully said, well,
492
00:28:57.920 --> 00:28:58.720
it's what I see.
493
00:28:58.960 --> 00:29:02.119
And yeah, you know, they have a different perception than
494
00:29:02.319 --> 00:29:06.599
the people who are, you know, doing this anti DEI thing.
495
00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:09.799
And you know, one of the things I realized, a
496
00:29:09.799 --> 00:29:13.400
lot of the noisiest people on the anti DEI thing,
497
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:15.200
you know, run these hedge funds.
498
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:16.960
They've going to hire about six people.
499
00:29:17.279 --> 00:29:20.720
It's not like ge, it's not like you a big company,
500
00:29:20.799 --> 00:29:22.480
it's not like Delta et cetera.
501
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:27.160
And so they don't even you know, need to.
502
00:29:27.079 --> 00:29:30.160
Think about it, or they don't want to think about it.
503
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:31.440
It's so it's really.
504
00:29:31.519 --> 00:29:37.039
To me, it's it's it's a it's not discouraging. It's
505
00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:41.839
just a time to be negotiated. And I am interested
506
00:29:42.160 --> 00:29:46.400
in being part of that we get through this, Yeah,
507
00:29:46.799 --> 00:29:47.880
how do we get through this?
508
00:29:48.039 --> 00:29:51.400
How do we transform through this? How do we transition?
509
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:56.079
And it's a well transition, transition to something else, and
510
00:29:56.119 --> 00:29:58.480
we don't quite know what that is. And we hear
511
00:29:58.519 --> 00:30:00.680
all this about AI and it's going to change and
512
00:30:00.680 --> 00:30:02.240
nobody's going to have a job, and it's all going
513
00:30:02.319 --> 00:30:03.839
to be, you know, robots.
514
00:30:04.079 --> 00:30:06.400
But I've been hearing it's all going to be robots
515
00:30:06.440 --> 00:30:11.240
for forty years, you know, so exactly, I'm a little
516
00:30:11.279 --> 00:30:15.240
skeptical on a lot of that. Obviously, there are jobs
517
00:30:15.240 --> 00:30:19.240
that are being replaced, but I think that in a
518
00:30:19.279 --> 00:30:22.359
time of transition, we need to look for clues and
519
00:30:22.400 --> 00:30:26.480
we need to We're just going to need some help
520
00:30:26.559 --> 00:30:30.000
in being able to navigate the transition. The other thing
521
00:30:30.079 --> 00:30:35.079
is I find people immensely discouraged. Oh we've gone back,
522
00:30:35.480 --> 00:30:38.119
Oh we're going backward. We thought we made progress, but
523
00:30:38.200 --> 00:30:41.559
it was just ridiculous. What I have to bring at
524
00:30:41.559 --> 00:30:46.640
this point is I've been in this field, active and
525
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:51.720
participant for forty years. Before that, I had a career
526
00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:53.920
for you know, fifteen years.
527
00:30:54.160 --> 00:30:56.319
Yes, so I've.
528
00:30:56.039 --> 00:30:59.160
Seen it all and I've heard over and over, oh
529
00:30:59.200 --> 00:31:02.519
this is over, this is no longer. Oh that's so nineties,
530
00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:07.640
you know when's leadership is so nineties whatever, and it's
531
00:31:07.799 --> 00:31:11.079
not really how it is. So I feel like I
532
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:16.160
can bring this perspective in a way that will offer
533
00:31:16.759 --> 00:31:24.160
hope for and tactics for navigating through a challenging period
534
00:31:24.880 --> 00:31:28.559
that's going to have a lot of impact in terms
535
00:31:28.000 --> 00:31:31.440
of how how things unfold in the world.
536
00:31:31.799 --> 00:31:35.039
Yeah, it's really it's it's kind of a fascinating time.
537
00:31:35.400 --> 00:31:38.720
But you know, I think to your point, companies have
538
00:31:38.759 --> 00:31:43.599
to hire. Companies know that if they have a diverse workforce,
539
00:31:44.039 --> 00:31:48.599
they can tap into the customer better. Yes, and actually
540
00:31:48.640 --> 00:31:50.960
they tend to make more money. They tend to make
541
00:31:51.000 --> 00:31:51.960
more profit.
542
00:31:51.960 --> 00:31:56.359
Absolutely, and they draw from a wider pool of talent.
543
00:31:56.440 --> 00:31:59.160
They don't start off with a restricted pool of talent
544
00:32:00.160 --> 00:32:03.480
to hire. This kind of person will hire the best. Well,
545
00:32:03.599 --> 00:32:04.559
you know you've got.
546
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:05.400
If you want to.
547
00:32:05.440 --> 00:32:08.480
Hire the best, you go to a big tool pool
548
00:32:08.519 --> 00:32:09.519
of twenty.
549
00:32:09.680 --> 00:32:10.160
Is it there?
550
00:32:10.720 --> 00:32:14.920
Yeah, it is, it is, well, Sally. So, So what
551
00:32:15.440 --> 00:32:18.160
parting last word do you want to say to people?
552
00:32:18.680 --> 00:32:19.759
Keep hope in your heart.
553
00:32:20.440 --> 00:32:24.400
Oh, I love that the gains that we have made
554
00:32:24.599 --> 00:32:29.359
in terms of how of who matters in the workplace
555
00:32:29.640 --> 00:32:34.599
in our communities will not be erased. They it goes
556
00:32:34.680 --> 00:32:39.319
in waves, and having some perspective about that and keeping
557
00:32:39.359 --> 00:32:42.039
hope in your heart is what what I think is
558
00:32:42.119 --> 00:32:43.640
most important.
559
00:32:44.039 --> 00:32:46.839
I love that. That is absolutely beautiful. And how do
560
00:32:46.880 --> 00:32:49.440
people get a hold of you? Because I know people
561
00:32:49.480 --> 00:32:50.680
are going to want to get a hold of you.
562
00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:52.400
They always do. Thank you.
563
00:32:52.960 --> 00:32:56.680
Yes, I'm easy to get hold of. My website, Sally
564
00:32:56.759 --> 00:33:00.720
Heelgison dot com has a contact button so you can
565
00:33:01.799 --> 00:33:04.400
email me. I'm in a very quiet period right now
566
00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:06.559
where I'm rethinking my own transition.
567
00:33:06.599 --> 00:33:07.839
I love that great.
568
00:33:07.880 --> 00:33:11.839
So I'm not particularly on social media and trying to
569
00:33:11.960 --> 00:33:14.559
email me through LinkedIn is a terrible idea because I
570
00:33:14.599 --> 00:33:18.079
guess so much. But just you know, if you want
571
00:33:18.119 --> 00:33:20.440
to get in touch with me, press the button contact
572
00:33:20.480 --> 00:33:23.559
Sally Elguson and I'll go right to my email and
573
00:33:23.640 --> 00:33:25.240
I will respond, well.
574
00:33:25.359 --> 00:33:29.200
Excellent, very very good. So I can't thank you enough, Sally.
575
00:33:29.240 --> 00:33:32.359
And it's just been since I've met you, it's just
576
00:33:32.359 --> 00:33:35.400
been a beautiful career to watch and to watch the
577
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:40.400
impact that you've had on women and the workplace and
578
00:33:40.440 --> 00:33:44.319
women and men working together, which I think is absolutely brilliant.
579
00:33:44.720 --> 00:33:46.480
So have a wonderful.
580
00:33:46.559 --> 00:33:50.160
Rest of whatever part of the time zone you're in
581
00:33:50.759 --> 00:33:52.839
and we will talk again for sure.
582
00:33:52.920 --> 00:33:56.240
Absolutely. Thank you Sally so much. Thank you Linda. It's
583
00:33:56.240 --> 00:33:58.480
a pleasure to be with you appreciate it.
584
00:33:59.200 --> 00:34:02.160
So thank you so much for joining the show today,
585
00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:05.559
and I hope you will see us and tune in
586
00:34:06.400 --> 00:34:09.199
for the next one, which we'll be coming up very shortly.
587
00:34:09.679 --> 00:34:11.719
So thank you all for joining the show.