[0:01] Welcome to Navigating Complex Divorce and Parenting Issues with Attorney Melanie Walls.
[0:06] Hello, everyone.
[0:09] Welcome to Navigating Complex Divorce and Parenting Issues with Attorney Melanie Walls.
[0:14] Melanie is an OSBA certified specialist in family relations law who regularly works with
[0:19] families navigating high-conflict divorce and custody situations, helping them to create
[0:24] structure and stability even when communication might have broken down.
[0:29] My name is Sean O'Connor, and today, Melanie and I are focusing on high-conflict cases,
[0:35] how they're managed, what tends to escalate in those situations, and most importantly,
[0:39] what actually helps keep them on track.
[0:41] Melanie, how are you?
[0:42] Great.
[0:43] How are you, Sean?
[0:44] I'm doing well.
[0:45] I'm doing well.
[0:46] I've been enjoying our conversations, and I want to get into this one with a question
[0:51] around your ability to recognize early on, that a case is likely to become high-conflict
[0:57] rather than more routine, or are there red flags that you have seen in your practice?
[1:04] Yes.
[1:05] I think some of the red flags that we see come through at the initial intake, which is why
[1:12] I believe having a pretty significant initial intake meeting with a potential client is
[1:19] very important for both parties to make sure that you're a good fit.
[1:24] A client walks into the office, says, I want to terminate my marriage.
[1:30] I really want to work things out.
[1:32] I don't want to go to court.
[1:35] I want to try to come up with the best solution for everyone involved.
[1:41] Then you know that they're open-minded, they're not conflict-oriented, and they want to work
[1:47] through the process.
[1:49] Our client comes into the office and says, I want full custody of the kids, I want support,
[1:58] I want the marital residence, and I want to take my spouse for everything I can.
[2:05] Then that's obviously going to be a high-conflict case.
[2:09] You have a client come into the office and ask you how many cases have you won?
[2:16] Are you a fighter?
[2:17] Are you going to be on my side?
[2:21] That's another red flag that they're looking at this as a win situation, not a I'm terminating
[2:31] my marriage, how are we dividing our assets and liabilities?
[2:36] What's in the best interest of our children?
[2:38] They are out to win.
[2:41] Those are some of the red flags that we see come through the office, and again, I can't
[2:47] stress enough why the initial client consultation is so important to the overall process.
[2:56] The client needs to have a good feeling about you, and you need to have a good feeling
[3:03] about that client, and believe that you can serve that client and their interests well,
[3:10] and sometimes it's not a good fit.
[3:14] You need to know that of front, instead of six months into the case, the clients asking
[3:21] and demanding things of you that you don't believe are in the client's best interest, and
[3:28] then you have to part ways.
[3:31] That's what you don't want.
[3:33] Yeah.
[3:34] That makes me tell the sense.
[3:35] Also, I know it's hard to even sometimes put into words, but given your experience having
[3:43] that initial meeting with someone, your ability to read between the lines, not that the
[3:48] client isn't also a perceptive person, but you've seen so many of these cases that you've
[3:54] got an opportunity to really kind of size things up and give some free advice at the outset
[4:01] almost to be like, hey, this isn't a zero sum game typically.
[4:06] Yeah, and I'm not, I don't hesitate, you know, I've been doing this for 28 years.
[4:10] I don't hesitate to tell someone, you know what, I don't think that we're a good fit,
[4:19] and I'm really sorry, but I think your needs would be best served with another attorney.
[4:26] You're in the situation where you've taken the case, it reaches a pretty high level of conflict.
[4:34] What tends to drive that?
[4:37] What tends to drive the conflict throughout the process?
[4:40] There can be several factors that drive the conflict.
[4:45] It can be my client, it can be the other party, it can be the other attorney, it can be the
[4:56] nature of some of the issues in the case, there can be mental health issues, there can be
[5:04] substance abuse issues, there are a lot of different things that can play into it.
[5:08] I mean, you know, some people, it can be just, you know, anger, fear, it's an emotional
[5:16] time for the parties, and you know, sometimes their emotions are taking control, and that's
[5:26] the driving force, you know, sometimes you suggest a client's, you know, to see a therapist
[5:33] to help them work through some of the issues, so they can better focus on the task of
[5:39] terminating their marriage.
[5:42] Other times, you just have two different personalities, you know, you have a strong personality in
[5:49] a case, and there's nothing wrong with that, you just, you know, have to know how to manage
[5:56] that personality and how to best, you know, respond to them that helps alleviate their fears
[6:05] or their need for control, so that they understand that you are working towards a solution and
[6:14] getting all of the assets divided, all of the debts addressed and any other issue in
[6:20] the termination of their marriage.
[6:24] You mentioned, you know, it's emotional, right, people can be overcome by their emotions
[6:30] or reactive, and you mentioned, hey, you know, in some cases, it may make sense for, you
[6:35] know, to recommend the client, your client see a therapist or, you know, work through some
[6:41] other issues, you know, just to, you know, keep the eye on the long term outcomes.
[6:46] I'm thinking of personal boundaries, you know, in high, any kind of high conflict relationship
[6:54] situation, not just legal cases, boundaries are critical.
[6:58] What does that look like in practice when, when, you know, communication is already difficult
[7:02] or inconsistent, how do you deal with that?
[7:05] The issue of boundaries, you know, you grab a good point, this is a very emotional time for
[7:12] a lot of people and sometimes they, you know, might lash out at their attorney.
[7:20] So in those cases, what you try to do is limit the phone calls and focus more on emails and
[7:32] written communication where you can really map it out.
[7:36] I think, you know, sometimes people in telephone conversations, they forget what you talked
[7:42] about, they mishear something, they misunderstand something.
[7:46] I think when you send them an email with bullet points that maps out the issue in detail,
[7:54] they can keep referring back to it, a telephone call they can't refer back to.
[7:59] So I think written communication is very helpful because it gives the client something they can
[8:05] look back at and say, well, I think my attorney told me this, but you know what, let me look
[8:10] back at that email on that subject and see what my attorney's advice actually was in the
[8:17] email.
[8:18] So I think, you know, a general rule is, you know, the written communication with a client,
[8:25] it is much more impactful and effective because they can refer back to it.
[8:31] I mean, obviously, I don't mind talking to my clients on the phone and we talk on a regular
[8:36] basis.
[8:37] But when it comes to a detailed issue or something complex, I think even after the phone
[8:43] call, you need to follow up with an email.
[8:47] This is what we just talked about and here are my thoughts and recommendations on X, Y and
[8:53] Z.
[8:54] So I think not only just emails in general, but I think email follow up after a phone call
[9:01] is very important for the client.
[9:04] Yeah, I mean, heck, in any business that I've been in, you know, I mean, there's power
[9:10] in the extemporaneous phone conversation.
[9:13] But like you said, things get forgotten or you forgot to say something or I forgot that
[9:18] you said something and add some emotion and what have you and I get how an email or more
[9:25] of a written correspondence can really help and also deescalate things.
[9:28] I'm curious, you know, a lot of, you know, conflict, lack of cooperation, one party being
[9:34] aggressive, maybe escalating the situation, how do you keep a case moving forward without
[9:39] unnecessary delays?
[9:40] Are there specific tactics that you have to rely on to navigate this stuff?
[9:47] Depends upon the reason for the delay.
[9:50] If you, you know, discovery is a perfect example.
[9:55] You send a party in a rawgatories and requests for production of documents and answer this set
[10:00] of questions, provide me with this list of documents.
[10:05] And you know, they send you maybe half of what you asked for and then you follow up and they
[10:11] don't send anything else or maybe they'll send you a little bit more.
[10:15] You know, then you, what you need to do sometimes is get the court involved.
[10:21] You know, file emotion, you know, emotion to compile, judge, they're not giving me what
[10:26] I asked for.
[10:27] I'm entitled to this information.
[10:29] I need your help in getting this case moving along.
[10:34] Or if you just can't get a party to come to the table to try to negotiate, you may just
[10:42] ask the court for a conference call on a status report and say, hey, you know, judge, we're
[10:49] really trying to get this worked out, but we just can't get the other party to respond
[10:54] or give us a counter offer.
[10:58] The judge may say, you know what, we're going to set this for an in person, for an hour
[11:01] where we're going to bring everyone into the courtroom and talk about this.
[11:07] You'd be surprised how effective setting a court date in front of the judge and having
[11:15] the party's appear in court, how effective that is before you know it, you're getting
[11:23] some communication and some movement on the other side when they find out that they are
[11:28] going to have to appear in front of the judge, you know, 30 days from now and the judge is
[11:33] going to want to know why this case isn't moving along.
[11:38] So, you know, getting the court involved definitely helps move the case along.
[11:44] Well, you know, as an extension of that, you know, I mean, the court has, you know, various
[11:50] tools that it's at its disposal, right?
[11:52] I'm wondering how, how those processes, you know, like temporary restraining orders maybe
[11:58] or we talked about parenting plans earlier, how does some of that from the court help stabilize
[12:04] these situations?
[12:06] So in Ohio, the Supreme Court has set deadlines for the domestic relations courts.
[12:13] For example, a divorce without children, they want it wrapped up in a year, a divorce with
[12:20] children, they want it wrapped up in 18 months.
[12:25] Every court is different.
[12:27] Some courts are very cognizant of the Supreme Court deadlines.
[12:32] They want to meet those deadlines.
[12:34] They will keep the case moving.
[12:37] They set status reports.
[12:39] They require you to schedule a settlement conference and they'll just keep it moving and you're
[12:48] checking into the court every 60 to 90 days and letting that court know what you're doing
[12:56] with the case.
[12:57] Where are we with this?
[12:58] You know, if you have real estate and you tell the court that the parties want to sell it,
[13:04] well, the court's going to check back in 60 days, you know, has it been listed?
[13:08] Do we have any offers?
[13:10] Is it listed at the right price?
[13:13] Does the court need to put any orders regarding the listing?
[13:18] So court imposed deadlines are what really keep a case moving.
[13:24] You mentioned, you know, property ownership, thinking about higher asset clients, right?
[13:31] What additional concerns come into play, you know, when interpersonal conflict intersects
[13:39] with business interests, finances, even privacy, right?
[13:44] High profile people or others for various reasons want to keep things private?
[13:49] Yeah.
[13:50] So, you know, we were talking about mediation earlier and some other tools in the toolbox.
[13:59] With high profile cases, the last thing you want to do is file in court and have a court
[14:09] involved.
[14:10] You can file the case under seal, but, you know, you're still having to appear in court.
[14:17] I think court is a last resort for high profile cases.
[14:22] You know, you want to go ahead and do your homework ahead of time.
[14:25] You want to get the business valued.
[14:27] You want to have, you know, your forensic accountant look over the books.
[14:33] You want to have your real estate appraisal is done.
[14:36] You want to use private mediation, all of that you want to use.
[14:43] And obviously, you know, in the ideal world, you want every case to settle and not be court
[14:50] involved.
[14:51] But if you have a high profile case and it has to be court involved, then you, after you've
[14:57] exhausted all other out of court remedies, then you would file the case under seal so that
[15:04] their name doesn't appear on any court website and people can't look into their case online.
[15:15] I want to circle back a little bit from a, through a more of a family lens with the
[15:23] time we have left here, you know, as your case progresses, what tends to determine whether
[15:29] it becomes more manageable or continues to create ongoing disruption for the family?
[15:38] You mentioned, you know, 18 months deadlines for cases involving children and that sort
[15:46] of thing.
[15:47] What, what are some things you've seen come into play here, especially in cases involving
[15:53] children?
[15:54] My approach, what I like to do is I like to get parenting resolved first.
[16:01] That's a priority.
[16:02] I mean, we're working both sides.
[16:05] We're working the property side of it.
[16:07] We're getting appraisals done.
[16:09] You know, we're getting the business valued.
[16:11] But that's not the primary focus, you know, the first six months of the case.
[16:16] The focus is going to be on, let's get a parenting schedule down.
[16:22] Let's get holidays agreed upon.
[16:24] Let's figure out, you know, what we're doing with extracurriculars and child related expenses.
[16:30] We really want the focus out of the gate to be on parenting because once you get parenting
[16:37] resolved, that the kids know their schedule, I'm with mom every Monday and Tuesday.
[16:44] I'm a dad every Wednesday and Thursday and I'm alternating weekends.
[16:50] There's not so much chaos in the home environment.
[16:53] Everyone has a set schedule.
[16:55] Everyone knows when they're going to be aware.
[16:59] And then the parties can then focus on the financial piece of terminating their marriage,
[17:06] you know, the assets and liabilities.
[17:08] But if your home life is in chaos, if your kids are in turmoil, that doesn't help get anything
[17:15] resolved.
[17:16] So I think that you really need to focus on parenting and then property.
[17:25] It makes a lot of sense.
[17:26] For sure.
[17:27] I mean, just giving the emotions it's safe and, you know, one party or the other like,
[17:31] you know, I'm going to lose my kids or whatever, not to be too extreme.
[17:34] But all of those things, plus the toll on the kids, mom and dad are going through a divorce.
[17:39] I mean, it makes sense, right?
[17:40] Like, get those things as buttoned down as you can and then all the other is secondary,
[17:46] ultimately with the family.
[17:48] Yeah, things tend to fall into place once the parties are able to be a little bit more
[17:55] calm.
[17:56] And, you know, obviously, you know, not knowing when you're going to see your children, how
[18:01] much time you're going to have with your children.
[18:04] It is such an emotional part of terminating your marriage that once you get that resolved,
[18:10] I think then you can relax a little bit and focus on the financials.
[18:18] Got it.
[18:20] Well, Melanie is always, thank you for sharing your expertise and point of view.
[18:26] We're out of time for this episode, but I know we'll talk again soon.
[18:30] Thank you, Sean, great talking to you.
[18:33] That wraps up today's episode of navigating complex divorce and parenting issues with attorney
[18:37] Melanie Walls.
[18:39] If you'd like to learn more about Melanie's work or schedule a consultation with her, visit
[18:44] the website MelanieWallslaw.com.
[18:47] As always, thanks for listening.
[18:49] I'm Sean O'Connor.
[18:50] Don't forget to leave a thumbs up, subscribe to the show, maybe leave a review if you've
[18:55] found this episode helpful.
[18:57] Have a great day.
[0:06] Hello, everyone.
[0:09] Welcome to Navigating Complex Divorce and Parenting Issues with Attorney Melanie Walls.
[0:14] Melanie is an OSBA certified specialist in family relations law who regularly works with
[0:19] families navigating high-conflict divorce and custody situations, helping them to create
[0:24] structure and stability even when communication might have broken down.
[0:29] My name is Sean O'Connor, and today, Melanie and I are focusing on high-conflict cases,
[0:35] how they're managed, what tends to escalate in those situations, and most importantly,
[0:39] what actually helps keep them on track.
[0:41] Melanie, how are you?
[0:42] Great.
[0:43] How are you, Sean?
[0:44] I'm doing well.
[0:45] I'm doing well.
[0:46] I've been enjoying our conversations, and I want to get into this one with a question
[0:51] around your ability to recognize early on, that a case is likely to become high-conflict
[0:57] rather than more routine, or are there red flags that you have seen in your practice?
[1:04] Yes.
[1:05] I think some of the red flags that we see come through at the initial intake, which is why
[1:12] I believe having a pretty significant initial intake meeting with a potential client is
[1:19] very important for both parties to make sure that you're a good fit.
[1:24] A client walks into the office, says, I want to terminate my marriage.
[1:30] I really want to work things out.
[1:32] I don't want to go to court.
[1:35] I want to try to come up with the best solution for everyone involved.
[1:41] Then you know that they're open-minded, they're not conflict-oriented, and they want to work
[1:47] through the process.
[1:49] Our client comes into the office and says, I want full custody of the kids, I want support,
[1:58] I want the marital residence, and I want to take my spouse for everything I can.
[2:05] Then that's obviously going to be a high-conflict case.
[2:09] You have a client come into the office and ask you how many cases have you won?
[2:16] Are you a fighter?
[2:17] Are you going to be on my side?
[2:21] That's another red flag that they're looking at this as a win situation, not a I'm terminating
[2:31] my marriage, how are we dividing our assets and liabilities?
[2:36] What's in the best interest of our children?
[2:38] They are out to win.
[2:41] Those are some of the red flags that we see come through the office, and again, I can't
[2:47] stress enough why the initial client consultation is so important to the overall process.
[2:56] The client needs to have a good feeling about you, and you need to have a good feeling
[3:03] about that client, and believe that you can serve that client and their interests well,
[3:10] and sometimes it's not a good fit.
[3:14] You need to know that of front, instead of six months into the case, the clients asking
[3:21] and demanding things of you that you don't believe are in the client's best interest, and
[3:28] then you have to part ways.
[3:31] That's what you don't want.
[3:33] Yeah.
[3:34] That makes me tell the sense.
[3:35] Also, I know it's hard to even sometimes put into words, but given your experience having
[3:43] that initial meeting with someone, your ability to read between the lines, not that the
[3:48] client isn't also a perceptive person, but you've seen so many of these cases that you've
[3:54] got an opportunity to really kind of size things up and give some free advice at the outset
[4:01] almost to be like, hey, this isn't a zero sum game typically.
[4:06] Yeah, and I'm not, I don't hesitate, you know, I've been doing this for 28 years.
[4:10] I don't hesitate to tell someone, you know what, I don't think that we're a good fit,
[4:19] and I'm really sorry, but I think your needs would be best served with another attorney.
[4:26] You're in the situation where you've taken the case, it reaches a pretty high level of conflict.
[4:34] What tends to drive that?
[4:37] What tends to drive the conflict throughout the process?
[4:40] There can be several factors that drive the conflict.
[4:45] It can be my client, it can be the other party, it can be the other attorney, it can be the
[4:56] nature of some of the issues in the case, there can be mental health issues, there can be
[5:04] substance abuse issues, there are a lot of different things that can play into it.
[5:08] I mean, you know, some people, it can be just, you know, anger, fear, it's an emotional
[5:16] time for the parties, and you know, sometimes their emotions are taking control, and that's
[5:26] the driving force, you know, sometimes you suggest a client's, you know, to see a therapist
[5:33] to help them work through some of the issues, so they can better focus on the task of
[5:39] terminating their marriage.
[5:42] Other times, you just have two different personalities, you know, you have a strong personality in
[5:49] a case, and there's nothing wrong with that, you just, you know, have to know how to manage
[5:56] that personality and how to best, you know, respond to them that helps alleviate their fears
[6:05] or their need for control, so that they understand that you are working towards a solution and
[6:14] getting all of the assets divided, all of the debts addressed and any other issue in
[6:20] the termination of their marriage.
[6:24] You mentioned, you know, it's emotional, right, people can be overcome by their emotions
[6:30] or reactive, and you mentioned, hey, you know, in some cases, it may make sense for, you
[6:35] know, to recommend the client, your client see a therapist or, you know, work through some
[6:41] other issues, you know, just to, you know, keep the eye on the long term outcomes.
[6:46] I'm thinking of personal boundaries, you know, in high, any kind of high conflict relationship
[6:54] situation, not just legal cases, boundaries are critical.
[6:58] What does that look like in practice when, when, you know, communication is already difficult
[7:02] or inconsistent, how do you deal with that?
[7:05] The issue of boundaries, you know, you grab a good point, this is a very emotional time for
[7:12] a lot of people and sometimes they, you know, might lash out at their attorney.
[7:20] So in those cases, what you try to do is limit the phone calls and focus more on emails and
[7:32] written communication where you can really map it out.
[7:36] I think, you know, sometimes people in telephone conversations, they forget what you talked
[7:42] about, they mishear something, they misunderstand something.
[7:46] I think when you send them an email with bullet points that maps out the issue in detail,
[7:54] they can keep referring back to it, a telephone call they can't refer back to.
[7:59] So I think written communication is very helpful because it gives the client something they can
[8:05] look back at and say, well, I think my attorney told me this, but you know what, let me look
[8:10] back at that email on that subject and see what my attorney's advice actually was in the
[8:17] email.
[8:18] So I think, you know, a general rule is, you know, the written communication with a client,
[8:25] it is much more impactful and effective because they can refer back to it.
[8:31] I mean, obviously, I don't mind talking to my clients on the phone and we talk on a regular
[8:36] basis.
[8:37] But when it comes to a detailed issue or something complex, I think even after the phone
[8:43] call, you need to follow up with an email.
[8:47] This is what we just talked about and here are my thoughts and recommendations on X, Y and
[8:53] Z.
[8:54] So I think not only just emails in general, but I think email follow up after a phone call
[9:01] is very important for the client.
[9:04] Yeah, I mean, heck, in any business that I've been in, you know, I mean, there's power
[9:10] in the extemporaneous phone conversation.
[9:13] But like you said, things get forgotten or you forgot to say something or I forgot that
[9:18] you said something and add some emotion and what have you and I get how an email or more
[9:25] of a written correspondence can really help and also deescalate things.
[9:28] I'm curious, you know, a lot of, you know, conflict, lack of cooperation, one party being
[9:34] aggressive, maybe escalating the situation, how do you keep a case moving forward without
[9:39] unnecessary delays?
[9:40] Are there specific tactics that you have to rely on to navigate this stuff?
[9:47] Depends upon the reason for the delay.
[9:50] If you, you know, discovery is a perfect example.
[9:55] You send a party in a rawgatories and requests for production of documents and answer this set
[10:00] of questions, provide me with this list of documents.
[10:05] And you know, they send you maybe half of what you asked for and then you follow up and they
[10:11] don't send anything else or maybe they'll send you a little bit more.
[10:15] You know, then you, what you need to do sometimes is get the court involved.
[10:21] You know, file emotion, you know, emotion to compile, judge, they're not giving me what
[10:26] I asked for.
[10:27] I'm entitled to this information.
[10:29] I need your help in getting this case moving along.
[10:34] Or if you just can't get a party to come to the table to try to negotiate, you may just
[10:42] ask the court for a conference call on a status report and say, hey, you know, judge, we're
[10:49] really trying to get this worked out, but we just can't get the other party to respond
[10:54] or give us a counter offer.
[10:58] The judge may say, you know what, we're going to set this for an in person, for an hour
[11:01] where we're going to bring everyone into the courtroom and talk about this.
[11:07] You'd be surprised how effective setting a court date in front of the judge and having
[11:15] the party's appear in court, how effective that is before you know it, you're getting
[11:23] some communication and some movement on the other side when they find out that they are
[11:28] going to have to appear in front of the judge, you know, 30 days from now and the judge is
[11:33] going to want to know why this case isn't moving along.
[11:38] So, you know, getting the court involved definitely helps move the case along.
[11:44] Well, you know, as an extension of that, you know, I mean, the court has, you know, various
[11:50] tools that it's at its disposal, right?
[11:52] I'm wondering how, how those processes, you know, like temporary restraining orders maybe
[11:58] or we talked about parenting plans earlier, how does some of that from the court help stabilize
[12:04] these situations?
[12:06] So in Ohio, the Supreme Court has set deadlines for the domestic relations courts.
[12:13] For example, a divorce without children, they want it wrapped up in a year, a divorce with
[12:20] children, they want it wrapped up in 18 months.
[12:25] Every court is different.
[12:27] Some courts are very cognizant of the Supreme Court deadlines.
[12:32] They want to meet those deadlines.
[12:34] They will keep the case moving.
[12:37] They set status reports.
[12:39] They require you to schedule a settlement conference and they'll just keep it moving and you're
[12:48] checking into the court every 60 to 90 days and letting that court know what you're doing
[12:56] with the case.
[12:57] Where are we with this?
[12:58] You know, if you have real estate and you tell the court that the parties want to sell it,
[13:04] well, the court's going to check back in 60 days, you know, has it been listed?
[13:08] Do we have any offers?
[13:10] Is it listed at the right price?
[13:13] Does the court need to put any orders regarding the listing?
[13:18] So court imposed deadlines are what really keep a case moving.
[13:24] You mentioned, you know, property ownership, thinking about higher asset clients, right?
[13:31] What additional concerns come into play, you know, when interpersonal conflict intersects
[13:39] with business interests, finances, even privacy, right?
[13:44] High profile people or others for various reasons want to keep things private?
[13:49] Yeah.
[13:50] So, you know, we were talking about mediation earlier and some other tools in the toolbox.
[13:59] With high profile cases, the last thing you want to do is file in court and have a court
[14:09] involved.
[14:10] You can file the case under seal, but, you know, you're still having to appear in court.
[14:17] I think court is a last resort for high profile cases.
[14:22] You know, you want to go ahead and do your homework ahead of time.
[14:25] You want to get the business valued.
[14:27] You want to have, you know, your forensic accountant look over the books.
[14:33] You want to have your real estate appraisal is done.
[14:36] You want to use private mediation, all of that you want to use.
[14:43] And obviously, you know, in the ideal world, you want every case to settle and not be court
[14:50] involved.
[14:51] But if you have a high profile case and it has to be court involved, then you, after you've
[14:57] exhausted all other out of court remedies, then you would file the case under seal so that
[15:04] their name doesn't appear on any court website and people can't look into their case online.
[15:15] I want to circle back a little bit from a, through a more of a family lens with the
[15:23] time we have left here, you know, as your case progresses, what tends to determine whether
[15:29] it becomes more manageable or continues to create ongoing disruption for the family?
[15:38] You mentioned, you know, 18 months deadlines for cases involving children and that sort
[15:46] of thing.
[15:47] What, what are some things you've seen come into play here, especially in cases involving
[15:53] children?
[15:54] My approach, what I like to do is I like to get parenting resolved first.
[16:01] That's a priority.
[16:02] I mean, we're working both sides.
[16:05] We're working the property side of it.
[16:07] We're getting appraisals done.
[16:09] You know, we're getting the business valued.
[16:11] But that's not the primary focus, you know, the first six months of the case.
[16:16] The focus is going to be on, let's get a parenting schedule down.
[16:22] Let's get holidays agreed upon.
[16:24] Let's figure out, you know, what we're doing with extracurriculars and child related expenses.
[16:30] We really want the focus out of the gate to be on parenting because once you get parenting
[16:37] resolved, that the kids know their schedule, I'm with mom every Monday and Tuesday.
[16:44] I'm a dad every Wednesday and Thursday and I'm alternating weekends.
[16:50] There's not so much chaos in the home environment.
[16:53] Everyone has a set schedule.
[16:55] Everyone knows when they're going to be aware.
[16:59] And then the parties can then focus on the financial piece of terminating their marriage,
[17:06] you know, the assets and liabilities.
[17:08] But if your home life is in chaos, if your kids are in turmoil, that doesn't help get anything
[17:15] resolved.
[17:16] So I think that you really need to focus on parenting and then property.
[17:25] It makes a lot of sense.
[17:26] For sure.
[17:27] I mean, just giving the emotions it's safe and, you know, one party or the other like,
[17:31] you know, I'm going to lose my kids or whatever, not to be too extreme.
[17:34] But all of those things, plus the toll on the kids, mom and dad are going through a divorce.
[17:39] I mean, it makes sense, right?
[17:40] Like, get those things as buttoned down as you can and then all the other is secondary,
[17:46] ultimately with the family.
[17:48] Yeah, things tend to fall into place once the parties are able to be a little bit more
[17:55] calm.
[17:56] And, you know, obviously, you know, not knowing when you're going to see your children, how
[18:01] much time you're going to have with your children.
[18:04] It is such an emotional part of terminating your marriage that once you get that resolved,
[18:10] I think then you can relax a little bit and focus on the financials.
[18:18] Got it.
[18:20] Well, Melanie is always, thank you for sharing your expertise and point of view.
[18:26] We're out of time for this episode, but I know we'll talk again soon.
[18:30] Thank you, Sean, great talking to you.
[18:33] That wraps up today's episode of navigating complex divorce and parenting issues with attorney
[18:37] Melanie Walls.
[18:39] If you'd like to learn more about Melanie's work or schedule a consultation with her, visit
[18:44] the website MelanieWallslaw.com.
[18:47] As always, thanks for listening.
[18:49] I'm Sean O'Connor.
[18:50] Don't forget to leave a thumbs up, subscribe to the show, maybe leave a review if you've
[18:55] found this episode helpful.
[18:57] Have a great day.
