WEBVTT
1
00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:12.839
Welcome to this week's episode of the My Veterinary Life podcast.
2
00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:15.919
I'm your host, doctor Annie Chafont, and my pronouns are
3
00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:19.199
she her, and our guest today is doctor Keith Chaw.
4
00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:21.640
Doctor Chow is a specialist.
5
00:00:21.079 --> 00:00:24.719
Feline veterinarian and best selling author of fantasy, romance and
6
00:00:24.760 --> 00:00:28.719
speculative fiction. I am so excited to share doctor Chow's story,
7
00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:30.640
but before we do, I do want to give a
8
00:00:30.679 --> 00:00:34.479
thank you to our podcast partner, NVA General Practice. NBA
9
00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:37.600
helps great vets become even greater with multiple paths to
10
00:00:37.640 --> 00:00:41.320
build a career that's uniquely yours. Lead a team, explore
11
00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:44.960
a specialty, own a practice, or shape care across our
12
00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:48.439
network of over nine hundred neighborhood clinics. Wherever you want
13
00:00:48.439 --> 00:00:50.880
to go next, NBA has a path to help you
14
00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:54.320
get there. Visit careers dot NBA dot com to find
15
00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:57.200
your next role. And with that, Welcome to the show,
16
00:00:57.240 --> 00:01:00.240
Doctor Chow. Thank you so much for having me an.
17
00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:03.560
Oh, thank you so much for sharing your time with us.
18
00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:07.200
What an exciting career story and I cannot wait to
19
00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:10.319
jump in. But we do like to start each episode
20
00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:14.000
in a similar way here on the podcast, So can
21
00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:17.280
you tell us how you first became interested in veterinary medicine.
22
00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:20.280
Well, I mean, I think it's pretty typical of most
23
00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:23.840
of us vets that we all grew up loving animals.
24
00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:27.319
So I was just an animal lover. And actually I
25
00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:29.599
was never allowed a pet growing up. I did have
26
00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:32.040
fish at one stage, but I was never allowed a
27
00:01:32.040 --> 00:01:34.640
dog or a cat, and I desperately wanted one. So
28
00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:37.519
when I grew up and was decigning on career paths,
29
00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:40.280
I was like, well, I'm just going to become a
30
00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:43.519
veterinarian because that is going to give me access to
31
00:01:43.640 --> 00:01:46.760
all the pets I could ever want. And my parents
32
00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:49.000
are like, don't you want to become a doctor because
33
00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:50.840
my brother and sister are by doctors, And I was like,
34
00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:53.400
I am a doctor, just so if.
35
00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:55.000
I as a doctor of animals.
36
00:01:56.000 --> 00:01:59.519
So that was kind of like my pathway into veny medicine.
37
00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.680
I love that way to make that work for you
38
00:02:02.840 --> 00:02:05.439
and to put yourself into the beats position to get
39
00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:12.800
that one day. I've always had a pet since, perfect fit, exactly, wonderful.
40
00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:17.960
So you aspired to become a veterinarian, you pursued that
41
00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:23.400
goal after graduation, you took a path to specialization. So
42
00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:27.479
I'm curious as to how that played out, What was
43
00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:30.520
that thought process and what did that look like for you.
44
00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:34.400
Well, I ended up when I was in school taking
45
00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:37.759
on a job as a cattery hand at.
46
00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:38.719
My local vetom clinic.
47
00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:41.199
And prior to that, like I said, I'd never had
48
00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:43.919
a pet, cat or dog, but I had really had
49
00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:48.199
very little interaction with cats at all, so I did
50
00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:50.439
not consider myself a cat person at all. I thought
51
00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:52.840
I was a dog person. And when I started this
52
00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:56.680
cattery job, I was very handling cats. I would have
53
00:02:56.759 --> 00:02:59.360
to be regularly bailed out and I'd be like, come
54
00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:01.560
and save Can you come and get this cat out
55
00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:03.319
from under this band or can.
56
00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:04.639
You like get it out of the cage, or can
57
00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:07.080
you like come and help me change the lit tree?
58
00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:09.560
And then eventually they're like he should just going to
59
00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:13.159
have to learn to do yourself. So after like a
60
00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:15.400
few months, I just had to learn to do it.
61
00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:18.479
And over a few years that I worked at their category,
62
00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:21.680
I ended up becoming really really good at cat handling.
63
00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:25.199
So by the time I graduated and started working in smaller,
64
00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:28.439
more practice, I was like the cat vispr. So when
65
00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:31.319
I started working in a sort of small animal clinic.
66
00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:33.159
Everyone was always like, oh, I get keys, She's really
67
00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:35.360
good at handling cats. So in that time I developed
68
00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:37.520
really good cat handling skills. It was like this, you know,
69
00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:40.560
baptism by fire, almost And I did a couple of
70
00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:44.639
years just in general practice and I did enjoy it.
71
00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:47.560
But I ended up working overseas, so I went over
72
00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:50.199
to the UK to do some local work. And when
73
00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:52.680
you go to the UK, as opposed to Australia, they
74
00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:55.919
have a lot more exotic little creatures than we have
75
00:03:56.039 --> 00:03:58.120
in Australia. They have a lot of little rodents that
76
00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:00.560
we are not allowed to keep this pets. So I
77
00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:03.280
went over to do this like this work as a
78
00:04:03.319 --> 00:04:06.039
locom in the UK, and I was sort of thrown
79
00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:08.879
into these situations where I was sole charged in these
80
00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:11.199
clinics and having to see all these exobic pets that
81
00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:14.319
I didn't really know how to deal with. And so
82
00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:16.519
I just remember this one time, and I was already
83
00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:18.839
sort of starting to think, you know, maybe I should
84
00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:22.439
specialize in feline medicine. But I remember this one particular
85
00:04:22.519 --> 00:04:25.680
day where I was told I would have to go
86
00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:28.800
and see a gerbil and I did not even know
87
00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:32.360
what a gerbil was supposed to look like like.
88
00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:35.199
I was just like, I had to google it. I
89
00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:37.120
was like, what does a gerbil look like? So I
90
00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:37.920
googled it.
91
00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:41.079
And I just sort of fumbled my way through this console,
92
00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:42.800
and I think I remember coming out of that and
93
00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:44.759
I was like, I can't do this.
94
00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:45.399
I can't do this.
95
00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:47.879
Like, I know, some people really good at being like
96
00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:51.040
Jacksonville Trades, Like they're really good at handling a whole
97
00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:53.160
range of animals and they just roll with it.
98
00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:55.759
I am much better at being the type.
99
00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:59.120
Of person who can really focus on like one topic
100
00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:01.720
and get really good at it and just feel really
101
00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:04.199
really sort of confident in what I'm doing. So at
102
00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:06.480
that point I was like, no, I really am going
103
00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:09.879
to specialize because I feel like I am just not
104
00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:13.079
really coping with the wide array of sort of like
105
00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:16.839
things that I'm thrown into in general practice.
106
00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:18.360
So yeah, then I sort of started.
107
00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:20.560
I was over in the UK and I started applying
108
00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:23.839
for internships over there to start the process of specializing,
109
00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:27.480
and I got rejected by everywhere I applied for.
110
00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:29.879
They just I kept on not getting any jobs.
111
00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:33.279
So then I finally got a job offer at Sidney
112
00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:37.240
University back home, in Australia, and so I actually cut
113
00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:39.759
my chip short and I flew home to start my
114
00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:42.759
internship there and then it float on into residency and
115
00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:44.759
all that sort of stuff. And then once I completed
116
00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:47.759
my residency, I moved back home and I started working
117
00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:51.199
at a cat only clinic here in my hometown of
118
00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:53.879
Melbourne in Australia. And I did that for a couple
119
00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:55.839
of years, and I was actually signed up to do
120
00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:57.040
my fellowship exams.
121
00:05:57.079 --> 00:05:58.959
I bought exams and I got pregnant.
122
00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:02.839
And remember I got pregnant and my due date was
123
00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:04.959
going to be basically when I was going to have
124
00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:08.720
my oral exams, and I remember when I told my boss.
125
00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:12.680
My boss was like, you timed that really badly, Like
126
00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:16.720
it's true. But you know, for me, I've always kind
127
00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:19.279
of just like gone with things because for me, you know,
128
00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:22.959
having a family was really important. And I was like,
129
00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:25.839
you know, things can wait. You know, there's always you
130
00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:28.360
can always sort of like re arrange things. You've been
131
00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:32.759
rescheduled things like, you know, there's always ways to rearrange
132
00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:36.519
things to make things work. So I basically deferred my
133
00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:40.120
exams and I deferred them, I think for two years
134
00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:43.399
because I obviously, you know, the first year after you
135
00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:46.800
have a baby is pretty intense. I remember I did
136
00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:50.120
have times where I was, you know, holding my baby
137
00:06:50.439 --> 00:06:52.319
for a nap and i had my iPad with like
138
00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:55.399
journal articles open and I'd be like reading and like,
139
00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:58.399
you know, should be there like sort of napping on me.
140
00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:01.160
But yeah, I didn't get a lot of study done
141
00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:04.040
in that first year. But then just when she was
142
00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:07.120
just under two years old was when I actually sat
143
00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:09.079
for my dev So it was like a prolonged period
144
00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:12.000
because I had had that additional time where I'd worked
145
00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:14.360
in cat only practice just to because I felt like
146
00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:17.319
I really wanted to get more experience just working in
147
00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:19.879
sort of like a wide case slode because when you're
148
00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:22.759
in a university, in a university situation, you see really
149
00:07:22.839 --> 00:07:25.120
complicated things because it was obviously like a you know,
150
00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:28.560
a tertiary institution, but I think your caseload is smaller
151
00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:31.519
because it's teaching hospitals, so you sort of don't see
152
00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:34.199
such a high volume of cases. So when I went
153
00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:36.319
into sort of private practice and I was just seeing
154
00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:39.160
like a really high volume of cases and being referred
155
00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:41.720
a lot, I just felt like I really consolidated my
156
00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:44.199
skills that way, and then I took the additional two
157
00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:47.040
years because of having a baby. So yeah, so that's
158
00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:49.519
why I so it was seventy years later because of
159
00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:52.319
my personal lack of planning.
160
00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:56.920
No, but I think I'm so glad that you mentioned that,
161
00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:01.639
because I do feel very strongly getting the message across
162
00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:05.680
that life happens at the same time as our professional development.
163
00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:10.639
And I think your perspective of things can be rearranged
164
00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:13.879
is so important to keep in mind. It sounds simple
165
00:08:14.519 --> 00:08:18.040
just in a vacuum, but there's so much pressure to
166
00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:21.800
hold on to that testing date or whatever that goal
167
00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:23.519
might be, and you work so hard for that moment,
168
00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:25.959
but there are other things that are also priorities, and
169
00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:30.439
so what can be rearranged what cannot, and letting that
170
00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:32.080
guide you through and it.
171
00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:33.279
All worked out.
172
00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:37.279
So I think, yeah, I'm just so glad that you
173
00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:40.840
shared that experience and that it will be okay if
174
00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:43.919
some things need to be rearranged. The timeline might look
175
00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:46.879
different than when you started on this goal that you're
176
00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.480
working towards, but keep the goal in mind, rearrange the
177
00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:51.600
things that can be rearranged.
178
00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:53.120
Yeah, that's right.
179
00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:55.679
It's just kind of like rolling with things and knowing
180
00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:58.840
that as long as you've got your eyes on the prize,
181
00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:00.440
you can might contap it, you know.
182
00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:01.960
And I think that having.
183
00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:04.879
The baby like really sort of made me very aware
184
00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:08.120
of like how I was using my time. You know.
185
00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:10.639
I think like I became super super efficient at like
186
00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:14.039
using my time that I had, so yeah, and I
187
00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:16.799
think it also put things into perspective because I was
188
00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:18.960
kind of like, well, I can get through that, I
189
00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:20.159
can get through anything.
190
00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:23.159
It's a really challenging time, and so everything.
191
00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:25.399
Kind of made me realize that, you know, there's never
192
00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:29.879
anything that is insurmountable. You know, things happen, things don't
193
00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:32.159
always go to plan, but you can always sort of
194
00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:35.000
like get through it in some way, shape or form.
195
00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:37.960
And I think it just like it helped me with
196
00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:41.399
my resilience and it helped me with perspective. And yeah,
197
00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:43.200
so it was a really kind of I think it
198
00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:45.159
all worked out in the end. At the time, you know,
199
00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:50.440
it's very very difficult, but yeah, looking back at it,
200
00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:53.080
I might have a bit of survivor's bias, but I'm like, yeah,
201
00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:54.919
I think it all it all worked out as it
202
00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:55.799
should have done.
203
00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:00.559
There you go, there, you go, Yeah, that is wonderful
204
00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:05.240
point to normalize that it is okay to rearrange things
205
00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:05.919
do work out.
206
00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:07.879
It might be we're not saying that.
207
00:10:07.879 --> 00:10:10.320
It's not going to be challenging in the moment, but
208
00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:14.519
it will all work out if you have that goal
209
00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:17.799
oriented focus and are willing to be flexible at the
210
00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:21.559
same time, which does actually lead me into my next
211
00:10:21.639 --> 00:10:24.159
question a bit of that. You spent some time in
212
00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.759
practice after getting your board certification, but that also had
213
00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:31.519
some twists and turns along the way, So can you
214
00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:33.759
describe your time in practice for us.
215
00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:38.200
Yeah, So after I did my internship residency and then
216
00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:41.279
did that couple of years in private practice, and I
217
00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:43.720
took that time off to have my baby and to
218
00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:47.519
study for my boards, I ended up opening a feline
219
00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:50.919
only vetmy clinique myself with the business partner and ran
220
00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:53.240
that for about five years. So we built it up
221
00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:55.559
from scratch and it was doing really well. But in
222
00:10:55.600 --> 00:10:58.080
the end, so things didn't work out, so my husband,
223
00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:00.720
who is also a vet, we sold out of that business.
224
00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:04.120
And then after that I was kind of like, well,
225
00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:06.360
I've done all this stuff. I've done like almost everything
226
00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:09.200
I wanted to do, like in specifically in feline medicine,
227
00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:11.559
and we could have opened up another clinic, but I
228
00:11:11.559 --> 00:11:14.080
was kind of like, I've always had some other interests.
229
00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:17.519
So one of my other major interests was always animal welfare.
230
00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:21.120
When I was in high school and in UNI, I
231
00:11:21.159 --> 00:11:23.759
was always the person who was always like banging on
232
00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:26.639
about animal welfare and stuff like that, and like having
233
00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:30.519
robust discussions about animal welfare issues with some of the lecturers.
234
00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:34.120
So I decided I would go and try to get
235
00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:37.080
a job in animal welfare, and I ended up doing
236
00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:40.320
a couple of years as an animal welfare officer at
237
00:11:40.360 --> 00:11:42.080
the University of Melbourne, my alma mater.
238
00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:43.960
That's where I did my VETNU degree.
239
00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:48.440
And again, that was just a really, really interesting time
240
00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:50.559
and I absolutely loved that job.
241
00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:51.960
That was one of my favorite jobs there.
242
00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:54.360
But we had an amazing team, and I think it
243
00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:57.360
was just so nice that we all had this sort
244
00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:00.919
of common goal of just wanting to promote animal welfare
245
00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:04.519
and do what was best for the animals. And it
246
00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:08.279
was so funny because it was going a complete opposite.
247
00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:10.399
And I know I said that I didn't necessarily wanted
248
00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:12.919
to be a jack of all trades, and that's why
249
00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:15.519
I focused on feline medicine, but then when I went
250
00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:17.759
into animal welfare, I was dealing with a whole lot
251
00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:20.480
of species but just focusing on their welfare. So it
252
00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:22.759
was still quite sort of specialized because that's what I
253
00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:24.120
had to know about. We still had to know about
254
00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:26.440
their physiology and anatomy and biology and all that sort
255
00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:29.120
of stuff, which I did learn, but it was focused
256
00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:31.600
on their welfare. I'm in the context of their welfare.
257
00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:34.440
And I think that when I thought about, you know,
258
00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:37.279
why are you going from feline medicine to this like
259
00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:39.159
animal welfare job where you've got to see all these
260
00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:40.759
different animals, And I was like, I think I just
261
00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:42.559
really loved to learn. I think I got to this
262
00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:44.679
stage where I was like, I had done all this
263
00:12:44.679 --> 00:12:46.519
stuff and feline medicine, and I was like, what's the
264
00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:47.360
next challenge?
265
00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:49.000
What else can I sort of learn?
266
00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:51.399
Because I really love learning, and so I'm kind of
267
00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:55.120
addicted to this learning thing, and so this new challenge
268
00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:58.159
of expanding my knowledge even more was like just so
269
00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:00.600
it was so juicy to me, and it was actually
270
00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:03.159
really funny because when I did my interview for it,
271
00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:05.519
I remember I was in this panel and there was
272
00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:08.320
like four people from the university, like fairly high up
273
00:13:08.360 --> 00:13:12.120
people in this university system interviewing me, and they're like
274
00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:15.399
looking at my resume, my CV and they're like, you've
275
00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:19.480
very specialized. You've literally only worked with cats for like
276
00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:20.600
more than ten years.
277
00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:22.840
Are you sure you can do this job?
278
00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:24.759
And I was like, yeah, I can totally do this job,
279
00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:26.320
but I'm really passionate animal welfare.
280
00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:27.960
And they're like, are you sure.
281
00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:31.120
Because you know you're going to be seeing like horses
282
00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:37.120
and sheep and goats and like wildlife and donuts. And
283
00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:43.279
I was like thinking, what is it Like, I was
284
00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:45.679
thinking that, but then I was like, of course I
285
00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:50.320
can do all that, and they're like okay, great, well
286
00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:52.679
hire you. And then later and I was like, okay,
287
00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:54.519
I have to learn about dune uts, how these little
288
00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:55.759
Australian marstupiols.
289
00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:57.480
And in the end I ended up.
290
00:13:57.399 --> 00:13:59.320
Loving working with the dunhots, like they were one of
291
00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:01.399
my favorites tea is to work with and we did
292
00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:02.559
a lot of research.
293
00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:03.840
Involved in the data.
294
00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:06.039
But yeah, it was just it was just so funny
295
00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:08.039
because I was like the other extent because I had
296
00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:09.799
been so specialized, and then I was sort of like
297
00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:12.000
working with all these different species, but again in a
298
00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:14.679
very specialized way because I was like really focusing on
299
00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:17.039
their welfare. And it was so nice because it was
300
00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:19.519
like my other major interests. I love cats, I love
301
00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:21.840
animal welfare, so it was kind of like this sort
302
00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:24.159
of just you know, tickled my brain in such a
303
00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:26.679
good way. And then after I did that, I did
304
00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:30.080
a couple of years working actually for the AVIA which
305
00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:32.840
I think is similar to the AVIU May but it
306
00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:36.000
was the Australian version, so the Australian Venterory Association, and
307
00:14:36.039 --> 00:14:38.879
they actually approached me because they had heard that I
308
00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:42.120
was an author, a writer and they were looking for
309
00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:46.159
a veterinarian to work in their marketing and communications team
310
00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:50.000
as a content writer, and so they asked I would
311
00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:54.080
be interested in doing some work for them, and I
312
00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:56.720
was like, well, that's perfect because that again it's a
313
00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:57.600
new challenge.
314
00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:59.519
I love sort of learning things.
315
00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:03.000
I want to learn more about marketing and communications because
316
00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:04.919
I just was like really interested in that.
317
00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:05.559
Side of things.
318
00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:07.799
I wanted to learn more about what the ABA did
319
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:10.360
as well, and it just was a really good marriage
320
00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:11.960
of my skill set as well.
321
00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:13.720
But I didn't want to leave my other job, so
322
00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:15.600
I ended up doing both jobs for a while.
323
00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:18.000
So I was like working, you know, some days at
324
00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.039
the ABA, and I was working other days I'm at
325
00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:20.759
the university.
326
00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:22.240
And I did those two for a bit.
327
00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:24.759
But then it became a bit overwhelming balancing the two
328
00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:27.879
of them plus night being an offer and having kids.
329
00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:31.399
So I ended up very sadly leaving the university job
330
00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:33.200
and focusing on the ABA job.
331
00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:35.440
And yeah, so it's kind of just done.
332
00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:38.440
Lots of different things, and things that kind of chopped
333
00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:41.039
and changed and more fed as my life has changed.
334
00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:44.519
And I would still definitely love to do more animal
335
00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:47.039
welfare work. I'd definitely love to do more feline work,
336
00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:50.840
but yeah, I just go with where life takes me,
337
00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:54.039
and yeah, just what the circumstances allow for.
338
00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:57.240
I guess thank you so much for walking us through
339
00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:58.960
some of those twice and turns.
340
00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:01.919
As we said, the thing that struck me the most
341
00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:07.759
is that your level of enthusiasm was consistent across the
342
00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:09.600
broad diversity of.
343
00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.399
Areas that you were involved in. VetMed.
344
00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:16.559
You love feline specialty, but you also love animal welfare,
345
00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:19.200
and you've loved learning about the marketing and communications and
346
00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:22.600
contributing in that way, and so I think that it's
347
00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:25.639
a really good thing for us to keep in mind
348
00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:30.039
that are we putting ourselves in a box unnecessarily or
349
00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:33.200
what are all of the passions that we have and
350
00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:36.039
how can we explore them in this profession? And I
351
00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:38.039
think that it was really special the way that you
352
00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:42.240
identified the common thread between those you like learning new things,
353
00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:46.960
so where can we apply that passion to that It
354
00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:50.000
might look a little bit differently, but then that tickles
355
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:53.080
your brain in different ways as well and keeps you
356
00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:56.519
excited about the things that you're doing. So yeah, really
357
00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:00.039
appreciate you sharing that journey with us.
358
00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.000
And I think that my time at the AVIA really
359
00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:05.480
sin drove home to me that I loved learning about
360
00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:08.240
is like I wait really closely with the advocacy team
361
00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:10.960
because obviously we were doing a lot of content writing
362
00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:13.880
to highlight all the advocacy work that the ABA was doing,
363
00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:17.519
and they do like incredible advocacy for the profession as
364
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:19.480
well as for animal welfare. So again it was like,
365
00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:22.480
you know, just like just bringing in all these interests
366
00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:26.400
that I had already developed and what I sort of
367
00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:28.279
like just realized and I already knew this, but it
368
00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:30.359
just really sort of like brought home in a very
369
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:34.359
visceral way. It's just how involved vets are across all
370
00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:37.160
aspects of life. I was just talking to vets all
371
00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.079
the time across the country about all the amazing things
372
00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:42.480
they were doing. And I've always been so interested in
373
00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:45.599
learning what people's interests are as well, so I was
374
00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:47.759
just always like asking them, like, you know, what are
375
00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:49.759
your passions and what are you working on, and just
376
00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:53.599
like being so blown away by like the diverse range
377
00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:58.279
of skills and diverse involvement that vets have in all
378
00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.279
aspects of society. That was just incredible and I think
379
00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:04.079
I would love to like to be able to disseminate
380
00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:06.400
that more to the public and just showcase that. And
381
00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:08.480
that's what I loved doing when I was part of
382
00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:11.480
the AVA, and that's partly why I wrote the VOCA.
383
00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:13.559
I write as well because I wanted to showcase that.
384
00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:17.720
So yeah, yeah, that is so cool, And I didn't
385
00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:20.000
want to circle back around to that because it's your
386
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:24.079
writing was the first draw for the AVA, and we
387
00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:26.519
haven't even gotten to talk about that yet. So in
388
00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:30.279
addition to your other roles, you also are an author.
389
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.599
And the thing that caught my eye about that is
390
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:39.279
author of the fiction genres, because we do hear sometimes
391
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:43.839
veterinarians who are writing technical books about the profession. You've
392
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:48.000
gone in a completely different direction and exercise that other
393
00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:53.160
part of your brain through writing. So what was your inspiration?
394
00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.160
What are you doing in that area of your professional
395
00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:57.720
life as well?
396
00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:01.119
I just always loved writing. I'm a huge reader.
397
00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:03.279
I grew up just always with my nose in a book,
398
00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:05.119
and so when I was growing up, I was like
399
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:07.079
always writing stories and things like that. And then that
400
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.319
stopped when I graduated from high school until sort of
401
00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:14.880
like I had kind of basically finished my I'd gotten
402
00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:16.960
my specialty, and I'd done my master's degree, and I've
403
00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:18.720
done all of this like sort of vetmory stuff.
404
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:21.119
I didn't do any creative writing in that whole time.
405
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:23.039
It was like more than ten years because I was
406
00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:26.279
like writing journal articles. I was like writing science things,
407
00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:29.200
and I was only ever reading veto things, which is
408
00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:31.519
a very very different part of your brain that you use.
409
00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:34.559
And so then I started when my kids were young
410
00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:36.319
and they were like little.
411
00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:38.759
I was often like nap trapped, so like I was
412
00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.039
like with my laptop, they would be like lying on me.
413
00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:43.599
I didn't have study to do anymore because I'd already
414
00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:45.799
gotten my specialty, and I was like, I'm just going
415
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:48.480
to start writing that book that I've always wanted to write.
416
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.880
And so I started writing, and my first efforts were terrible, terrible,
417
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:56.359
because I had not written creatively for so long, and
418
00:19:56.440 --> 00:19:59.039
it is a skill, it's a muscle that you need
419
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:02.279
to use that you can lose if you don't use
420
00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:03.759
it all the day, but then you can get it back,
421
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:05.640
like it isn't like it's not setting the stone.
422
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:06.599
You don't lose it forever.
423
00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:09.440
So I sort of wrote like a whole bunch, and
424
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.200
I think the first book I wrote, I got about
425
00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:12.640
twenty thousand words into it and I was like, this
426
00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:14.559
is so bad, no, like no one should ever look
427
00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:19.000
at this. Scrapped it all. Then started again learning, like
428
00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:22.599
because I went back to craft and I started learning
429
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:25.519
about how you approach writing creatively and so again it
430
00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:27.480
was this challenge that I wanted to do. It was
431
00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:30.000
like more learning. It was like I wanted to learn
432
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.480
how to write creatively again. So I started like connecting
433
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:36.920
with other authors and we would train writing samples and
434
00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:39.480
I learned a lot from them. And then I started
435
00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:41.880
writing another book and I wrote another book, and then
436
00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:44.480
I wrote a third book, and then that was the
437
00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:47.519
one that I ended up querying agents with and signing
438
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:50.160
with an agent and then getting a publishing deal for
439
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:52.480
and then it sort of went from there. And so
440
00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:55.359
that was all sort of happening in the background in
441
00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:57.640
after hours. I was doing that, like really at night
442
00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:00.920
after the kids were in bed asleep, and I was
443
00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:03.519
doing that while I was doing you know, I had
444
00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:05.359
the business, and then I sold out of the business
445
00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:07.799
and then did the animal welfare work and did the
446
00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:10.279
AVA work as well. I was doing that during the
447
00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:12.359
day and I was writing at night, and it was
448
00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:15.000
just a really nice way of using.
449
00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:16.680
My brain in a really different way.
450
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.480
And yeah, so at first I was writing things that
451
00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:22.039
were completely not Vetory related because it was kind of
452
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:24.960
like my escape. But yeah, and my third published book
453
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:28.319
that just came out in May is actually like Vetory related,
454
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:30.480
and it was the first one I'd ever really sort
455
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:32.440
of like written that was so close to kind of
456
00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:33.279
like my life.
457
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:35.160
I was like, why didn't I do this sooner?
458
00:21:35.319 --> 00:21:37.960
You know, I mean I kind of I kind of know,
459
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:40.680
because as I said, I did it initially to escape
460
00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:43.319
from my day job. You know, I was working in
461
00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:45.960
my own clinic to begin with when I started writing,
462
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:47.359
so I was kind of like, I'm going to write
463
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:50.079
about stuff that's completely different because this is my day job,
464
00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:51.720
and I'm just like, I don't want to go home
465
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:54.839
and experience morrifying day job. But then now with a
466
00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:56.839
little bit more time and distance, because I have not
467
00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:59.559
been in clinical work for a little while, I was like, oh,
468
00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:02.519
what if I wrote about magical veterinarians. And so in
469
00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:05.240
this book, the small and moal vetts treat which is familiar,
470
00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:08.240
so things like cats and reptiles or birds or whatever
471
00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:12.000
that will communicate with the witches to help you channel magic.
472
00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:15.200
And then the large animal vets will treat mythical creatures,
473
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.960
so like dragons and centaurs, unicorns, that sort of thing.
474
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:20.599
So yeah, that was really fun because I could sort
475
00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:23.240
of bring in like my knowledge and then like apply
476
00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:25.319
it to these fantasy situations and.
477
00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:26.640
Just had a lot of fun with it.
478
00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:28.839
And so, you know, I was hoping that it would
479
00:22:28.839 --> 00:22:31.119
be a book that would appeal to, you know, an
480
00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:34.319
audience that doesn't know about vetmoself, but also appeal to
481
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.000
ti vets who you might like fantasy and romance.
482
00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:38.960
So fascinating.
483
00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:45.599
I love hearing the homecoming of your enthusiasm for creative
484
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:50.119
writing and the way you pursued that in a similar
485
00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:55.440
way to pursuing the different aspects of your veterinary professional career,
486
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:59.160
and that you're able to incorporate some vatman into that
487
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:03.720
third book and be able to experience both of those
488
00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:09.400
sides together. Also so impressed with your ability to navigate
489
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:12.880
a full time job, pursuing a passion in the evenings,
490
00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:15.000
and then also making sure that you've got time for
491
00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:20.319
family and other relationships. I do have to ask, though,
492
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:24.160
especially with the last book, in the writing process, there
493
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:29.759
have there been any similarities expected or unexpected between the
494
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:33.640
practice of vemed and getting a book published on paper.
495
00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:35.920
They look completely wildly different.
496
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:38.039
But really, when it comes down to it, I think
497
00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:41.920
really like empathy unites the two things, because in both
498
00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:46.000
cases you really have to really empathize with the people
499
00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:49.400
that you're either writing about or working with, and obviously,
500
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:52.359
like we all know as vets, you really have to
501
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:55.680
have such empathy for the animals, but also for the
502
00:23:55.759 --> 00:23:59.160
people involved with those animals, whether they're owners or whether
503
00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:02.400
they're you know, farmers or researchers or whoever you're working with,
504
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:05.480
the you know, ancillary to those, to those animals you're
505
00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:07.720
working with. You really have to be a people person.
506
00:24:07.880 --> 00:24:10.359
And so you know, I spent so much time when
507
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:13.200
I was working in Get New Medicines really fascinated by
508
00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:14.680
the people I worked with. And I remember I was
509
00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:17.319
always like asking them what did you work? Like what
510
00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:19.359
are your pasions? Like what are you interested in? Like
511
00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:21.519
I was just like so curious about like their lives
512
00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:24.839
because they were so different to mine. And so you know,
513
00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:26.640
I think that that was that was that thing. And
514
00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:29.200
then like when I'm writing, it's almost like I'm just
515
00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:32.160
kind of like sticky beeking into I think that's a
516
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:34.720
very Australian term, isn't it, sticky beeking is it? Yeah?
517
00:24:34.759 --> 00:24:36.960
Sticky beeing is basically where you're like being a little
518
00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:40.319
bit of a like peeping tom into like their lives.
519
00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:42.640
So I'm like creating these characters, but.
520
00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:45.319
I'm kind of like being a little bit like hey,
521
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:47.160
what what you what have you got going on? I'm
522
00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:49.279
like looking over their shoulders, being like, hey, you tell me,
523
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:52.960
tell me what you're doing. And so it kind of
524
00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:56.720
again it's like developing that empathy, it's being curious about people,
525
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:00.680
and obviously in my latest book, it's also the animal
526
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.559
aspects of it in as well.
527
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:04.039
So fascinating.
528
00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:08.839
It's so true that empathy is really at the core
529
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:14.240
of our profession, and I really hadn't thought about how
530
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.000
intimately you need to be able to understand and relate
531
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:20.519
to your characters as an author as well, And so
532
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:25.039
what a great uniting factor between the two is that
533
00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:28.839
curiosity that you mentioned is at the heart of it
534
00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:32.720
and wanting to make those connections, whether it's in the
535
00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:36.480
exam room or across the pages. I can totally see
536
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.039
why the challenge would be an enticing combination of similar
537
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:40.680
but different.
538
00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:41.680
It makes a lot of sense.
539
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:44.599
Well, Keis, thank you so much for coming on the
540
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:48.799
show and chatting about your career journey and giving us
541
00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:51.200
a little window into what looks like to be a
542
00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:55.519
veterinarian and an author and also a mother. You're balancing
543
00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:59.319
a lot, and your enthusiasm for each of the aspects
544
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:02.960
of your life life really shines through, and I absolutely
545
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.839
loved hearing from you and your perspective on all things
546
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:07.160
veterinary and beyond.
547
00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:09.599
Thank you, Thank you so much for having me. It
548
00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:10.880
was really fun to chat.
549
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:13.480
Likewise, and thank you to each of you for joining
550
00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:16.400
us on this episode of My Veterinary Life podcast. We
551
00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:19.000
love sharing this journey with you, and remember, we want
552
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:20.880
to hear from you, so please be sure to leave
553
00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:23.720
us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or whatever
554
00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:26.279
platform you listen to, and you can also email me
555
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:29.640
at MVL podcast at ABMA dot org.
556
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:31.599
Take care and we'll see you next time.
1
00:00:09.960 --> 00:00:12.839
Welcome to this week's episode of the My Veterinary Life podcast.
2
00:00:13.000 --> 00:00:15.919
I'm your host, doctor Annie Chafont, and my pronouns are
3
00:00:15.960 --> 00:00:19.199
she her, and our guest today is doctor Keith Chaw.
4
00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:21.640
Doctor Chow is a specialist.
5
00:00:21.079 --> 00:00:24.719
Feline veterinarian and best selling author of fantasy, romance and
6
00:00:24.760 --> 00:00:28.719
speculative fiction. I am so excited to share doctor Chow's story,
7
00:00:28.760 --> 00:00:30.640
but before we do, I do want to give a
8
00:00:30.679 --> 00:00:34.479
thank you to our podcast partner, NVA General Practice. NBA
9
00:00:34.640 --> 00:00:37.600
helps great vets become even greater with multiple paths to
10
00:00:37.640 --> 00:00:41.320
build a career that's uniquely yours. Lead a team, explore
11
00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:44.960
a specialty, own a practice, or shape care across our
12
00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:48.439
network of over nine hundred neighborhood clinics. Wherever you want
13
00:00:48.439 --> 00:00:50.880
to go next, NBA has a path to help you
14
00:00:50.960 --> 00:00:54.320
get there. Visit careers dot NBA dot com to find
15
00:00:54.320 --> 00:00:57.200
your next role. And with that, Welcome to the show,
16
00:00:57.240 --> 00:01:00.240
Doctor Chow. Thank you so much for having me an.
17
00:01:00.799 --> 00:01:03.560
Oh, thank you so much for sharing your time with us.
18
00:01:03.799 --> 00:01:07.200
What an exciting career story and I cannot wait to
19
00:01:07.439 --> 00:01:10.319
jump in. But we do like to start each episode
20
00:01:10.560 --> 00:01:14.000
in a similar way here on the podcast, So can
21
00:01:14.040 --> 00:01:17.280
you tell us how you first became interested in veterinary medicine.
22
00:01:17.799 --> 00:01:20.280
Well, I mean, I think it's pretty typical of most
23
00:01:20.319 --> 00:01:23.840
of us vets that we all grew up loving animals.
24
00:01:23.879 --> 00:01:27.319
So I was just an animal lover. And actually I
25
00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:29.599
was never allowed a pet growing up. I did have
26
00:01:29.680 --> 00:01:32.040
fish at one stage, but I was never allowed a
27
00:01:32.040 --> 00:01:34.640
dog or a cat, and I desperately wanted one. So
28
00:01:34.760 --> 00:01:37.519
when I grew up and was decigning on career paths,
29
00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:40.280
I was like, well, I'm just going to become a
30
00:01:40.400 --> 00:01:43.519
veterinarian because that is going to give me access to
31
00:01:43.640 --> 00:01:46.760
all the pets I could ever want. And my parents
32
00:01:46.799 --> 00:01:49.000
are like, don't you want to become a doctor because
33
00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:50.840
my brother and sister are by doctors, And I was like,
34
00:01:51.239 --> 00:01:53.400
I am a doctor, just so if.
35
00:01:53.319 --> 00:01:55.000
I as a doctor of animals.
36
00:01:56.000 --> 00:01:59.519
So that was kind of like my pathway into veny medicine.
37
00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:02.680
I love that way to make that work for you
38
00:02:02.840 --> 00:02:05.439
and to put yourself into the beats position to get
39
00:02:05.560 --> 00:02:12.800
that one day. I've always had a pet since, perfect fit, exactly, wonderful.
40
00:02:13.039 --> 00:02:17.960
So you aspired to become a veterinarian, you pursued that
41
00:02:18.080 --> 00:02:23.400
goal after graduation, you took a path to specialization. So
42
00:02:23.759 --> 00:02:27.479
I'm curious as to how that played out, What was
43
00:02:27.479 --> 00:02:30.520
that thought process and what did that look like for you.
44
00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:34.400
Well, I ended up when I was in school taking
45
00:02:34.479 --> 00:02:37.759
on a job as a cattery hand at.
46
00:02:37.599 --> 00:02:38.719
My local vetom clinic.
47
00:02:39.000 --> 00:02:41.199
And prior to that, like I said, I'd never had
48
00:02:41.280 --> 00:02:43.919
a pet, cat or dog, but I had really had
49
00:02:44.039 --> 00:02:48.199
very little interaction with cats at all, so I did
50
00:02:48.240 --> 00:02:50.439
not consider myself a cat person at all. I thought
51
00:02:50.479 --> 00:02:52.840
I was a dog person. And when I started this
52
00:02:52.879 --> 00:02:56.680
cattery job, I was very handling cats. I would have
53
00:02:56.759 --> 00:02:59.360
to be regularly bailed out and I'd be like, come
54
00:02:59.400 --> 00:03:01.560
and save Can you come and get this cat out
55
00:03:01.560 --> 00:03:03.319
from under this band or can.
56
00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:04.639
You like get it out of the cage, or can
57
00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:07.080
you like come and help me change the lit tree?
58
00:03:07.280 --> 00:03:09.560
And then eventually they're like he should just going to
59
00:03:09.680 --> 00:03:13.159
have to learn to do yourself. So after like a
60
00:03:13.159 --> 00:03:15.400
few months, I just had to learn to do it.
61
00:03:15.639 --> 00:03:18.479
And over a few years that I worked at their category,
62
00:03:18.599 --> 00:03:21.680
I ended up becoming really really good at cat handling.
63
00:03:22.120 --> 00:03:25.199
So by the time I graduated and started working in smaller,
64
00:03:25.280 --> 00:03:28.439
more practice, I was like the cat vispr. So when
65
00:03:28.439 --> 00:03:31.319
I started working in a sort of small animal clinic.
66
00:03:31.360 --> 00:03:33.159
Everyone was always like, oh, I get keys, She's really
67
00:03:33.199 --> 00:03:35.360
good at handling cats. So in that time I developed
68
00:03:35.360 --> 00:03:37.520
really good cat handling skills. It was like this, you know,
69
00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:40.560
baptism by fire, almost And I did a couple of
70
00:03:40.639 --> 00:03:44.639
years just in general practice and I did enjoy it.
71
00:03:44.759 --> 00:03:47.560
But I ended up working overseas, so I went over
72
00:03:47.599 --> 00:03:50.199
to the UK to do some local work. And when
73
00:03:50.240 --> 00:03:52.680
you go to the UK, as opposed to Australia, they
74
00:03:52.680 --> 00:03:55.919
have a lot more exotic little creatures than we have
75
00:03:56.039 --> 00:03:58.120
in Australia. They have a lot of little rodents that
76
00:03:58.400 --> 00:04:00.560
we are not allowed to keep this pets. So I
77
00:04:00.599 --> 00:04:03.280
went over to do this like this work as a
78
00:04:03.319 --> 00:04:06.039
locom in the UK, and I was sort of thrown
79
00:04:06.080 --> 00:04:08.879
into these situations where I was sole charged in these
80
00:04:08.919 --> 00:04:11.199
clinics and having to see all these exobic pets that
81
00:04:11.240 --> 00:04:14.319
I didn't really know how to deal with. And so
82
00:04:14.400 --> 00:04:16.519
I just remember this one time, and I was already
83
00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:18.839
sort of starting to think, you know, maybe I should
84
00:04:19.000 --> 00:04:22.439
specialize in feline medicine. But I remember this one particular
85
00:04:22.519 --> 00:04:25.680
day where I was told I would have to go
86
00:04:25.759 --> 00:04:28.800
and see a gerbil and I did not even know
87
00:04:29.360 --> 00:04:32.360
what a gerbil was supposed to look like like.
88
00:04:32.439 --> 00:04:35.199
I was just like, I had to google it. I
89
00:04:35.279 --> 00:04:37.120
was like, what does a gerbil look like? So I
90
00:04:37.199 --> 00:04:37.920
googled it.
91
00:04:38.360 --> 00:04:41.079
And I just sort of fumbled my way through this console,
92
00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:42.800
and I think I remember coming out of that and
93
00:04:42.839 --> 00:04:44.759
I was like, I can't do this.
94
00:04:44.839 --> 00:04:45.399
I can't do this.
95
00:04:45.519 --> 00:04:47.879
Like, I know, some people really good at being like
96
00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:51.040
Jacksonville Trades, Like they're really good at handling a whole
97
00:04:51.120 --> 00:04:53.160
range of animals and they just roll with it.
98
00:04:53.639 --> 00:04:55.759
I am much better at being the type.
99
00:04:55.560 --> 00:04:59.120
Of person who can really focus on like one topic
100
00:04:59.160 --> 00:05:01.720
and get really good at it and just feel really
101
00:05:01.839 --> 00:05:04.199
really sort of confident in what I'm doing. So at
102
00:05:04.199 --> 00:05:06.480
that point I was like, no, I really am going
103
00:05:06.519 --> 00:05:09.879
to specialize because I feel like I am just not
104
00:05:10.079 --> 00:05:13.079
really coping with the wide array of sort of like
105
00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:16.839
things that I'm thrown into in general practice.
106
00:05:16.480 --> 00:05:18.360
So yeah, then I sort of started.
107
00:05:18.399 --> 00:05:20.560
I was over in the UK and I started applying
108
00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:23.839
for internships over there to start the process of specializing,
109
00:05:24.240 --> 00:05:27.480
and I got rejected by everywhere I applied for.
110
00:05:27.680 --> 00:05:29.879
They just I kept on not getting any jobs.
111
00:05:30.160 --> 00:05:33.279
So then I finally got a job offer at Sidney
112
00:05:33.360 --> 00:05:37.240
University back home, in Australia, and so I actually cut
113
00:05:37.279 --> 00:05:39.759
my chip short and I flew home to start my
114
00:05:39.800 --> 00:05:42.759
internship there and then it float on into residency and
115
00:05:42.839 --> 00:05:44.759
all that sort of stuff. And then once I completed
116
00:05:44.759 --> 00:05:47.759
my residency, I moved back home and I started working
117
00:05:47.839 --> 00:05:51.199
at a cat only clinic here in my hometown of
118
00:05:51.240 --> 00:05:53.879
Melbourne in Australia. And I did that for a couple
119
00:05:53.920 --> 00:05:55.839
of years, and I was actually signed up to do
120
00:05:55.920 --> 00:05:57.040
my fellowship exams.
121
00:05:57.079 --> 00:05:58.959
I bought exams and I got pregnant.
122
00:05:59.720 --> 00:06:02.839
And remember I got pregnant and my due date was
123
00:06:02.879 --> 00:06:04.959
going to be basically when I was going to have
124
00:06:05.040 --> 00:06:08.720
my oral exams, and I remember when I told my boss.
125
00:06:08.800 --> 00:06:12.680
My boss was like, you timed that really badly, Like
126
00:06:13.439 --> 00:06:16.720
it's true. But you know, for me, I've always kind
127
00:06:16.759 --> 00:06:19.279
of just like gone with things because for me, you know,
128
00:06:19.319 --> 00:06:22.959
having a family was really important. And I was like,
129
00:06:23.240 --> 00:06:25.839
you know, things can wait. You know, there's always you
130
00:06:25.879 --> 00:06:28.360
can always sort of like re arrange things. You've been
131
00:06:28.399 --> 00:06:32.759
rescheduled things like, you know, there's always ways to rearrange
132
00:06:32.920 --> 00:06:36.519
things to make things work. So I basically deferred my
133
00:06:36.720 --> 00:06:40.120
exams and I deferred them, I think for two years
134
00:06:40.160 --> 00:06:43.399
because I obviously, you know, the first year after you
135
00:06:43.439 --> 00:06:46.800
have a baby is pretty intense. I remember I did
136
00:06:46.920 --> 00:06:50.120
have times where I was, you know, holding my baby
137
00:06:50.439 --> 00:06:52.319
for a nap and i had my iPad with like
138
00:06:52.399 --> 00:06:55.399
journal articles open and I'd be like reading and like,
139
00:06:55.480 --> 00:06:58.399
you know, should be there like sort of napping on me.
140
00:06:59.000 --> 00:07:01.160
But yeah, I didn't get a lot of study done
141
00:07:01.199 --> 00:07:04.040
in that first year. But then just when she was
142
00:07:04.160 --> 00:07:07.120
just under two years old was when I actually sat
143
00:07:07.160 --> 00:07:09.079
for my dev So it was like a prolonged period
144
00:07:09.160 --> 00:07:12.000
because I had had that additional time where I'd worked
145
00:07:12.079 --> 00:07:14.360
in cat only practice just to because I felt like
146
00:07:14.399 --> 00:07:17.319
I really wanted to get more experience just working in
147
00:07:17.439 --> 00:07:19.879
sort of like a wide case slode because when you're
148
00:07:19.879 --> 00:07:22.759
in a university, in a university situation, you see really
149
00:07:22.839 --> 00:07:25.120
complicated things because it was obviously like a you know,
150
00:07:25.199 --> 00:07:28.560
a tertiary institution, but I think your caseload is smaller
151
00:07:28.600 --> 00:07:31.519
because it's teaching hospitals, so you sort of don't see
152
00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:34.199
such a high volume of cases. So when I went
153
00:07:34.279 --> 00:07:36.319
into sort of private practice and I was just seeing
154
00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:39.160
like a really high volume of cases and being referred
155
00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:41.720
a lot, I just felt like I really consolidated my
156
00:07:41.759 --> 00:07:44.199
skills that way, and then I took the additional two
157
00:07:44.279 --> 00:07:47.040
years because of having a baby. So yeah, so that's
158
00:07:47.079 --> 00:07:49.519
why I so it was seventy years later because of
159
00:07:50.120 --> 00:07:52.319
my personal lack of planning.
160
00:07:54.800 --> 00:07:56.920
No, but I think I'm so glad that you mentioned that,
161
00:07:57.079 --> 00:08:01.639
because I do feel very strongly getting the message across
162
00:08:01.680 --> 00:08:05.680
that life happens at the same time as our professional development.
163
00:08:06.079 --> 00:08:10.639
And I think your perspective of things can be rearranged
164
00:08:10.920 --> 00:08:13.879
is so important to keep in mind. It sounds simple
165
00:08:14.519 --> 00:08:18.040
just in a vacuum, but there's so much pressure to
166
00:08:18.639 --> 00:08:21.800
hold on to that testing date or whatever that goal
167
00:08:21.879 --> 00:08:23.519
might be, and you work so hard for that moment,
168
00:08:23.560 --> 00:08:25.959
but there are other things that are also priorities, and
169
00:08:26.000 --> 00:08:30.439
so what can be rearranged what cannot, and letting that
170
00:08:30.560 --> 00:08:32.080
guide you through and it.
171
00:08:32.159 --> 00:08:33.279
All worked out.
172
00:08:33.759 --> 00:08:37.279
So I think, yeah, I'm just so glad that you
173
00:08:37.720 --> 00:08:40.840
shared that experience and that it will be okay if
174
00:08:40.919 --> 00:08:43.919
some things need to be rearranged. The timeline might look
175
00:08:43.960 --> 00:08:46.879
different than when you started on this goal that you're
176
00:08:46.879 --> 00:08:50.480
working towards, but keep the goal in mind, rearrange the
177
00:08:50.480 --> 00:08:51.600
things that can be rearranged.
178
00:08:52.320 --> 00:08:53.120
Yeah, that's right.
179
00:08:53.159 --> 00:08:55.679
It's just kind of like rolling with things and knowing
180
00:08:55.720 --> 00:08:58.840
that as long as you've got your eyes on the prize,
181
00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:00.440
you can might contap it, you know.
182
00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:01.960
And I think that having.
183
00:09:02.159 --> 00:09:04.879
The baby like really sort of made me very aware
184
00:09:05.080 --> 00:09:08.120
of like how I was using my time. You know.
185
00:09:08.159 --> 00:09:10.639
I think like I became super super efficient at like
186
00:09:10.799 --> 00:09:14.039
using my time that I had, so yeah, and I
187
00:09:14.039 --> 00:09:16.799
think it also put things into perspective because I was
188
00:09:16.879 --> 00:09:18.960
kind of like, well, I can get through that, I
189
00:09:19.000 --> 00:09:20.159
can get through anything.
190
00:09:20.440 --> 00:09:23.159
It's a really challenging time, and so everything.
191
00:09:22.879 --> 00:09:25.399
Kind of made me realize that, you know, there's never
192
00:09:25.480 --> 00:09:29.879
anything that is insurmountable. You know, things happen, things don't
193
00:09:29.879 --> 00:09:32.159
always go to plan, but you can always sort of
194
00:09:32.240 --> 00:09:35.000
like get through it in some way, shape or form.
195
00:09:35.559 --> 00:09:37.960
And I think it just like it helped me with
196
00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:41.399
my resilience and it helped me with perspective. And yeah,
197
00:09:41.440 --> 00:09:43.200
so it was a really kind of I think it
198
00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:45.159
all worked out in the end. At the time, you know,
199
00:09:45.320 --> 00:09:50.440
it's very very difficult, but yeah, looking back at it,
200
00:09:50.519 --> 00:09:53.080
I might have a bit of survivor's bias, but I'm like, yeah,
201
00:09:53.279 --> 00:09:54.919
I think it all it all worked out as it
202
00:09:54.919 --> 00:09:55.799
should have done.
203
00:09:56.240 --> 00:10:00.559
There you go, there, you go, Yeah, that is wonderful
204
00:10:00.559 --> 00:10:05.240
point to normalize that it is okay to rearrange things
205
00:10:05.279 --> 00:10:05.919
do work out.
206
00:10:06.080 --> 00:10:07.879
It might be we're not saying that.
207
00:10:07.879 --> 00:10:10.320
It's not going to be challenging in the moment, but
208
00:10:10.919 --> 00:10:14.519
it will all work out if you have that goal
209
00:10:14.559 --> 00:10:17.799
oriented focus and are willing to be flexible at the
210
00:10:17.799 --> 00:10:21.559
same time, which does actually lead me into my next
211
00:10:21.639 --> 00:10:24.159
question a bit of that. You spent some time in
212
00:10:24.200 --> 00:10:28.759
practice after getting your board certification, but that also had
213
00:10:28.799 --> 00:10:31.519
some twists and turns along the way, So can you
214
00:10:31.559 --> 00:10:33.759
describe your time in practice for us.
215
00:10:34.159 --> 00:10:38.200
Yeah, So after I did my internship residency and then
216
00:10:38.240 --> 00:10:41.279
did that couple of years in private practice, and I
217
00:10:41.320 --> 00:10:43.720
took that time off to have my baby and to
218
00:10:43.759 --> 00:10:47.519
study for my boards, I ended up opening a feline
219
00:10:47.559 --> 00:10:50.919
only vetmy clinique myself with the business partner and ran
220
00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:53.240
that for about five years. So we built it up
221
00:10:53.279 --> 00:10:55.559
from scratch and it was doing really well. But in
222
00:10:55.600 --> 00:10:58.080
the end, so things didn't work out, so my husband,
223
00:10:58.080 --> 00:11:00.720
who is also a vet, we sold out of that business.
224
00:11:01.159 --> 00:11:04.120
And then after that I was kind of like, well,
225
00:11:04.240 --> 00:11:06.360
I've done all this stuff. I've done like almost everything
226
00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:09.200
I wanted to do, like in specifically in feline medicine,
227
00:11:09.559 --> 00:11:11.559
and we could have opened up another clinic, but I
228
00:11:11.559 --> 00:11:14.080
was kind of like, I've always had some other interests.
229
00:11:14.080 --> 00:11:17.519
So one of my other major interests was always animal welfare.
230
00:11:17.759 --> 00:11:21.120
When I was in high school and in UNI, I
231
00:11:21.159 --> 00:11:23.759
was always the person who was always like banging on
232
00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:26.639
about animal welfare and stuff like that, and like having
233
00:11:26.799 --> 00:11:30.519
robust discussions about animal welfare issues with some of the lecturers.
234
00:11:30.919 --> 00:11:34.120
So I decided I would go and try to get
235
00:11:34.159 --> 00:11:37.080
a job in animal welfare, and I ended up doing
236
00:11:37.200 --> 00:11:40.320
a couple of years as an animal welfare officer at
237
00:11:40.360 --> 00:11:42.080
the University of Melbourne, my alma mater.
238
00:11:42.200 --> 00:11:43.960
That's where I did my VETNU degree.
239
00:11:44.639 --> 00:11:48.440
And again, that was just a really, really interesting time
240
00:11:48.559 --> 00:11:50.559
and I absolutely loved that job.
241
00:11:50.600 --> 00:11:51.960
That was one of my favorite jobs there.
242
00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:54.360
But we had an amazing team, and I think it
243
00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:57.360
was just so nice that we all had this sort
244
00:11:57.360 --> 00:12:00.919
of common goal of just wanting to promote animal welfare
245
00:12:01.360 --> 00:12:04.519
and do what was best for the animals. And it
246
00:12:04.639 --> 00:12:08.279
was so funny because it was going a complete opposite.
247
00:12:08.320 --> 00:12:10.399
And I know I said that I didn't necessarily wanted
248
00:12:10.600 --> 00:12:12.919
to be a jack of all trades, and that's why
249
00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:15.519
I focused on feline medicine, but then when I went
250
00:12:15.519 --> 00:12:17.759
into animal welfare, I was dealing with a whole lot
251
00:12:17.799 --> 00:12:20.480
of species but just focusing on their welfare. So it
252
00:12:20.519 --> 00:12:22.759
was still quite sort of specialized because that's what I
253
00:12:22.759 --> 00:12:24.120
had to know about. We still had to know about
254
00:12:24.159 --> 00:12:26.440
their physiology and anatomy and biology and all that sort
255
00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:29.120
of stuff, which I did learn, but it was focused
256
00:12:29.159 --> 00:12:31.600
on their welfare. I'm in the context of their welfare.
257
00:12:32.159 --> 00:12:34.440
And I think that when I thought about, you know,
258
00:12:34.480 --> 00:12:37.279
why are you going from feline medicine to this like
259
00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:39.159
animal welfare job where you've got to see all these
260
00:12:39.159 --> 00:12:40.759
different animals, And I was like, I think I just
261
00:12:40.799 --> 00:12:42.559
really loved to learn. I think I got to this
262
00:12:42.559 --> 00:12:44.679
stage where I was like, I had done all this
263
00:12:44.679 --> 00:12:46.519
stuff and feline medicine, and I was like, what's the
264
00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:47.360
next challenge?
265
00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:49.000
What else can I sort of learn?
266
00:12:49.159 --> 00:12:51.399
Because I really love learning, and so I'm kind of
267
00:12:51.399 --> 00:12:55.120
addicted to this learning thing, and so this new challenge
268
00:12:55.200 --> 00:12:58.159
of expanding my knowledge even more was like just so
269
00:12:58.600 --> 00:13:00.600
it was so juicy to me, and it was actually
270
00:13:00.639 --> 00:13:03.159
really funny because when I did my interview for it,
271
00:13:03.279 --> 00:13:05.519
I remember I was in this panel and there was
272
00:13:05.559 --> 00:13:08.320
like four people from the university, like fairly high up
273
00:13:08.360 --> 00:13:12.120
people in this university system interviewing me, and they're like
274
00:13:12.240 --> 00:13:15.399
looking at my resume, my CV and they're like, you've
275
00:13:15.519 --> 00:13:19.480
very specialized. You've literally only worked with cats for like
276
00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:20.600
more than ten years.
277
00:13:20.879 --> 00:13:22.840
Are you sure you can do this job?
278
00:13:22.840 --> 00:13:24.759
And I was like, yeah, I can totally do this job,
279
00:13:24.759 --> 00:13:26.320
but I'm really passionate animal welfare.
280
00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:27.960
And they're like, are you sure.
281
00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:31.120
Because you know you're going to be seeing like horses
282
00:13:31.320 --> 00:13:37.120
and sheep and goats and like wildlife and donuts. And
283
00:13:37.519 --> 00:13:43.279
I was like thinking, what is it Like, I was
284
00:13:43.360 --> 00:13:45.679
thinking that, but then I was like, of course I
285
00:13:45.679 --> 00:13:50.320
can do all that, and they're like okay, great, well
286
00:13:50.440 --> 00:13:52.679
hire you. And then later and I was like, okay,
287
00:13:52.679 --> 00:13:54.519
I have to learn about dune uts, how these little
288
00:13:54.559 --> 00:13:55.759
Australian marstupiols.
289
00:13:55.919 --> 00:13:57.480
And in the end I ended up.
290
00:13:57.399 --> 00:13:59.320
Loving working with the dunhots, like they were one of
291
00:13:59.399 --> 00:14:01.399
my favorites tea is to work with and we did
292
00:14:01.399 --> 00:14:02.559
a lot of research.
293
00:14:02.879 --> 00:14:03.840
Involved in the data.
294
00:14:04.200 --> 00:14:06.039
But yeah, it was just it was just so funny
295
00:14:06.039 --> 00:14:08.039
because I was like the other extent because I had
296
00:14:08.080 --> 00:14:09.799
been so specialized, and then I was sort of like
297
00:14:09.840 --> 00:14:12.000
working with all these different species, but again in a
298
00:14:12.080 --> 00:14:14.679
very specialized way because I was like really focusing on
299
00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:17.039
their welfare. And it was so nice because it was
300
00:14:17.080 --> 00:14:19.519
like my other major interests. I love cats, I love
301
00:14:19.519 --> 00:14:21.840
animal welfare, so it was kind of like this sort
302
00:14:21.879 --> 00:14:24.159
of just you know, tickled my brain in such a
303
00:14:24.159 --> 00:14:26.679
good way. And then after I did that, I did
304
00:14:26.720 --> 00:14:30.080
a couple of years working actually for the AVIA which
305
00:14:30.120 --> 00:14:32.840
I think is similar to the AVIU May but it
306
00:14:32.879 --> 00:14:36.000
was the Australian version, so the Australian Venterory Association, and
307
00:14:36.039 --> 00:14:38.879
they actually approached me because they had heard that I
308
00:14:39.000 --> 00:14:42.120
was an author, a writer and they were looking for
309
00:14:42.159 --> 00:14:46.159
a veterinarian to work in their marketing and communications team
310
00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:50.000
as a content writer, and so they asked I would
311
00:14:50.000 --> 00:14:54.080
be interested in doing some work for them, and I
312
00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:56.720
was like, well, that's perfect because that again it's a
313
00:14:56.720 --> 00:14:57.600
new challenge.
314
00:14:58.000 --> 00:14:59.519
I love sort of learning things.
315
00:14:59.679 --> 00:15:03.000
I want to learn more about marketing and communications because
316
00:15:03.000 --> 00:15:04.919
I just was like really interested in that.
317
00:15:04.840 --> 00:15:05.559
Side of things.
318
00:15:05.799 --> 00:15:07.799
I wanted to learn more about what the ABA did
319
00:15:07.840 --> 00:15:10.360
as well, and it just was a really good marriage
320
00:15:10.360 --> 00:15:11.960
of my skill set as well.
321
00:15:12.159 --> 00:15:13.720
But I didn't want to leave my other job, so
322
00:15:13.759 --> 00:15:15.600
I ended up doing both jobs for a while.
323
00:15:15.639 --> 00:15:18.000
So I was like working, you know, some days at
324
00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:20.039
the ABA, and I was working other days I'm at
325
00:15:20.080 --> 00:15:20.759
the university.
326
00:15:21.039 --> 00:15:22.240
And I did those two for a bit.
327
00:15:22.279 --> 00:15:24.759
But then it became a bit overwhelming balancing the two
328
00:15:24.759 --> 00:15:27.879
of them plus night being an offer and having kids.
329
00:15:28.159 --> 00:15:31.399
So I ended up very sadly leaving the university job
330
00:15:31.399 --> 00:15:33.200
and focusing on the ABA job.
331
00:15:33.279 --> 00:15:35.440
And yeah, so it's kind of just done.
332
00:15:35.559 --> 00:15:38.440
Lots of different things, and things that kind of chopped
333
00:15:38.440 --> 00:15:41.039
and changed and more fed as my life has changed.
334
00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:44.519
And I would still definitely love to do more animal
335
00:15:44.519 --> 00:15:47.039
welfare work. I'd definitely love to do more feline work,
336
00:15:47.279 --> 00:15:50.840
but yeah, I just go with where life takes me,
337
00:15:51.080 --> 00:15:54.039
and yeah, just what the circumstances allow for.
338
00:15:54.080 --> 00:15:57.240
I guess thank you so much for walking us through
339
00:15:57.600 --> 00:15:58.960
some of those twice and turns.
340
00:15:59.120 --> 00:16:01.919
As we said, the thing that struck me the most
341
00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:07.759
is that your level of enthusiasm was consistent across the
342
00:16:08.120 --> 00:16:09.600
broad diversity of.
343
00:16:10.240 --> 00:16:12.399
Areas that you were involved in. VetMed.
344
00:16:12.720 --> 00:16:16.559
You love feline specialty, but you also love animal welfare,
345
00:16:16.600 --> 00:16:19.200
and you've loved learning about the marketing and communications and
346
00:16:19.519 --> 00:16:22.600
contributing in that way, and so I think that it's
347
00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:25.639
a really good thing for us to keep in mind
348
00:16:25.840 --> 00:16:30.039
that are we putting ourselves in a box unnecessarily or
349
00:16:30.440 --> 00:16:33.200
what are all of the passions that we have and
350
00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:36.039
how can we explore them in this profession? And I
351
00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:38.039
think that it was really special the way that you
352
00:16:38.080 --> 00:16:42.240
identified the common thread between those you like learning new things,
353
00:16:42.559 --> 00:16:46.960
so where can we apply that passion to that It
354
00:16:47.039 --> 00:16:50.000
might look a little bit differently, but then that tickles
355
00:16:50.039 --> 00:16:53.080
your brain in different ways as well and keeps you
356
00:16:53.120 --> 00:16:56.519
excited about the things that you're doing. So yeah, really
357
00:16:56.559 --> 00:17:00.039
appreciate you sharing that journey with us.
358
00:17:00.120 --> 00:17:03.000
And I think that my time at the AVIA really
359
00:17:03.159 --> 00:17:05.480
sin drove home to me that I loved learning about
360
00:17:05.599 --> 00:17:08.240
is like I wait really closely with the advocacy team
361
00:17:08.319 --> 00:17:10.960
because obviously we were doing a lot of content writing
362
00:17:11.079 --> 00:17:13.880
to highlight all the advocacy work that the ABA was doing,
363
00:17:13.920 --> 00:17:17.519
and they do like incredible advocacy for the profession as
364
00:17:17.519 --> 00:17:19.480
well as for animal welfare. So again it was like,
365
00:17:19.799 --> 00:17:22.480
you know, just like just bringing in all these interests
366
00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:26.400
that I had already developed and what I sort of
367
00:17:26.440 --> 00:17:28.279
like just realized and I already knew this, but it
368
00:17:28.400 --> 00:17:30.359
just really sort of like brought home in a very
369
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:34.359
visceral way. It's just how involved vets are across all
370
00:17:34.400 --> 00:17:37.160
aspects of life. I was just talking to vets all
371
00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:40.079
the time across the country about all the amazing things
372
00:17:40.079 --> 00:17:42.480
they were doing. And I've always been so interested in
373
00:17:42.559 --> 00:17:45.599
learning what people's interests are as well, so I was
374
00:17:45.680 --> 00:17:47.759
just always like asking them, like, you know, what are
375
00:17:47.799 --> 00:17:49.759
your passions and what are you working on, and just
376
00:17:49.799 --> 00:17:53.599
like being so blown away by like the diverse range
377
00:17:53.599 --> 00:17:58.279
of skills and diverse involvement that vets have in all
378
00:17:58.319 --> 00:18:01.279
aspects of society. That was just incredible and I think
379
00:18:01.319 --> 00:18:04.079
I would love to like to be able to disseminate
380
00:18:04.119 --> 00:18:06.400
that more to the public and just showcase that. And
381
00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:08.480
that's what I loved doing when I was part of
382
00:18:08.519 --> 00:18:11.480
the AVA, and that's partly why I wrote the VOCA.
383
00:18:11.480 --> 00:18:13.559
I write as well because I wanted to showcase that.
384
00:18:13.759 --> 00:18:17.720
So yeah, yeah, that is so cool, And I didn't
385
00:18:17.720 --> 00:18:20.000
want to circle back around to that because it's your
386
00:18:20.240 --> 00:18:24.079
writing was the first draw for the AVA, and we
387
00:18:24.119 --> 00:18:26.519
haven't even gotten to talk about that yet. So in
388
00:18:26.559 --> 00:18:30.279
addition to your other roles, you also are an author.
389
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.599
And the thing that caught my eye about that is
390
00:18:34.079 --> 00:18:39.279
author of the fiction genres, because we do hear sometimes
391
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:43.839
veterinarians who are writing technical books about the profession. You've
392
00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:48.000
gone in a completely different direction and exercise that other
393
00:18:48.079 --> 00:18:53.160
part of your brain through writing. So what was your inspiration?
394
00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:56.160
What are you doing in that area of your professional
395
00:18:56.200 --> 00:18:57.720
life as well?
396
00:18:57.839 --> 00:19:01.119
I just always loved writing. I'm a huge reader.
397
00:19:01.160 --> 00:19:03.279
I grew up just always with my nose in a book,
398
00:19:03.640 --> 00:19:05.119
and so when I was growing up, I was like
399
00:19:05.119 --> 00:19:07.079
always writing stories and things like that. And then that
400
00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.319
stopped when I graduated from high school until sort of
401
00:19:11.319 --> 00:19:14.880
like I had kind of basically finished my I'd gotten
402
00:19:14.920 --> 00:19:16.960
my specialty, and I'd done my master's degree, and I've
403
00:19:16.960 --> 00:19:18.720
done all of this like sort of vetmory stuff.
404
00:19:18.799 --> 00:19:21.119
I didn't do any creative writing in that whole time.
405
00:19:21.200 --> 00:19:23.039
It was like more than ten years because I was
406
00:19:23.119 --> 00:19:26.279
like writing journal articles. I was like writing science things,
407
00:19:26.319 --> 00:19:29.200
and I was only ever reading veto things, which is
408
00:19:29.240 --> 00:19:31.519
a very very different part of your brain that you use.
409
00:19:31.880 --> 00:19:34.559
And so then I started when my kids were young
410
00:19:35.279 --> 00:19:36.319
and they were like little.
411
00:19:36.359 --> 00:19:38.759
I was often like nap trapped, so like I was
412
00:19:38.799 --> 00:19:41.039
like with my laptop, they would be like lying on me.
413
00:19:41.319 --> 00:19:43.599
I didn't have study to do anymore because I'd already
414
00:19:43.640 --> 00:19:45.799
gotten my specialty, and I was like, I'm just going
415
00:19:45.839 --> 00:19:48.480
to start writing that book that I've always wanted to write.
416
00:19:48.559 --> 00:19:52.880
And so I started writing, and my first efforts were terrible, terrible,
417
00:19:52.920 --> 00:19:56.359
because I had not written creatively for so long, and
418
00:19:56.440 --> 00:19:59.039
it is a skill, it's a muscle that you need
419
00:19:59.039 --> 00:20:02.279
to use that you can lose if you don't use
420
00:20:02.319 --> 00:20:03.759
it all the day, but then you can get it back,
421
00:20:03.839 --> 00:20:05.640
like it isn't like it's not setting the stone.
422
00:20:05.680 --> 00:20:06.599
You don't lose it forever.
423
00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:09.440
So I sort of wrote like a whole bunch, and
424
00:20:09.519 --> 00:20:11.200
I think the first book I wrote, I got about
425
00:20:11.200 --> 00:20:12.640
twenty thousand words into it and I was like, this
426
00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:14.559
is so bad, no, like no one should ever look
427
00:20:14.559 --> 00:20:19.000
at this. Scrapped it all. Then started again learning, like
428
00:20:19.079 --> 00:20:22.599
because I went back to craft and I started learning
429
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:25.519
about how you approach writing creatively and so again it
430
00:20:25.559 --> 00:20:27.480
was this challenge that I wanted to do. It was
431
00:20:27.519 --> 00:20:30.000
like more learning. It was like I wanted to learn
432
00:20:30.000 --> 00:20:33.480
how to write creatively again. So I started like connecting
433
00:20:33.519 --> 00:20:36.920
with other authors and we would train writing samples and
434
00:20:37.240 --> 00:20:39.480
I learned a lot from them. And then I started
435
00:20:39.480 --> 00:20:41.880
writing another book and I wrote another book, and then
436
00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:44.480
I wrote a third book, and then that was the
437
00:20:44.519 --> 00:20:47.519
one that I ended up querying agents with and signing
438
00:20:47.519 --> 00:20:50.160
with an agent and then getting a publishing deal for
439
00:20:50.319 --> 00:20:52.480
and then it sort of went from there. And so
440
00:20:52.839 --> 00:20:55.359
that was all sort of happening in the background in
441
00:20:55.480 --> 00:20:57.640
after hours. I was doing that, like really at night
442
00:20:58.000 --> 00:21:00.920
after the kids were in bed asleep, and I was
443
00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:03.519
doing that while I was doing you know, I had
444
00:21:03.559 --> 00:21:05.359
the business, and then I sold out of the business
445
00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:07.799
and then did the animal welfare work and did the
446
00:21:08.200 --> 00:21:10.279
AVA work as well. I was doing that during the
447
00:21:10.319 --> 00:21:12.359
day and I was writing at night, and it was
448
00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:15.000
just a really nice way of using.
449
00:21:14.720 --> 00:21:16.680
My brain in a really different way.
450
00:21:17.039 --> 00:21:19.480
And yeah, so at first I was writing things that
451
00:21:19.519 --> 00:21:22.039
were completely not Vetory related because it was kind of
452
00:21:22.079 --> 00:21:24.960
like my escape. But yeah, and my third published book
453
00:21:25.000 --> 00:21:28.319
that just came out in May is actually like Vetory related,
454
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:30.480
and it was the first one I'd ever really sort
455
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:32.440
of like written that was so close to kind of
456
00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:33.279
like my life.
457
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:35.160
I was like, why didn't I do this sooner?
458
00:21:35.319 --> 00:21:37.960
You know, I mean I kind of I kind of know,
459
00:21:38.160 --> 00:21:40.680
because as I said, I did it initially to escape
460
00:21:40.720 --> 00:21:43.319
from my day job. You know, I was working in
461
00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:45.960
my own clinic to begin with when I started writing,
462
00:21:45.960 --> 00:21:47.359
so I was kind of like, I'm going to write
463
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:50.079
about stuff that's completely different because this is my day job,
464
00:21:50.119 --> 00:21:51.720
and I'm just like, I don't want to go home
465
00:21:51.839 --> 00:21:54.839
and experience morrifying day job. But then now with a
466
00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:56.839
little bit more time and distance, because I have not
467
00:21:56.880 --> 00:21:59.559
been in clinical work for a little while, I was like, oh,
468
00:21:59.559 --> 00:22:02.519
what if I wrote about magical veterinarians. And so in
469
00:22:02.559 --> 00:22:05.240
this book, the small and moal vetts treat which is familiar,
470
00:22:05.319 --> 00:22:08.240
so things like cats and reptiles or birds or whatever
471
00:22:08.319 --> 00:22:12.000
that will communicate with the witches to help you channel magic.
472
00:22:12.279 --> 00:22:15.200
And then the large animal vets will treat mythical creatures,
473
00:22:15.200 --> 00:22:17.960
so like dragons and centaurs, unicorns, that sort of thing.
474
00:22:18.079 --> 00:22:20.599
So yeah, that was really fun because I could sort
475
00:22:20.599 --> 00:22:23.240
of bring in like my knowledge and then like apply
476
00:22:23.319 --> 00:22:25.319
it to these fantasy situations and.
477
00:22:25.599 --> 00:22:26.640
Just had a lot of fun with it.
478
00:22:26.720 --> 00:22:28.839
And so, you know, I was hoping that it would
479
00:22:28.839 --> 00:22:31.119
be a book that would appeal to, you know, an
480
00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:34.319
audience that doesn't know about vetmoself, but also appeal to
481
00:22:34.640 --> 00:22:37.000
ti vets who you might like fantasy and romance.
482
00:22:37.839 --> 00:22:38.960
So fascinating.
483
00:22:39.160 --> 00:22:45.599
I love hearing the homecoming of your enthusiasm for creative
484
00:22:45.599 --> 00:22:50.119
writing and the way you pursued that in a similar
485
00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:55.440
way to pursuing the different aspects of your veterinary professional career,
486
00:22:55.839 --> 00:22:59.160
and that you're able to incorporate some vatman into that
487
00:22:59.279 --> 00:23:03.720
third book and be able to experience both of those
488
00:23:03.759 --> 00:23:09.400
sides together. Also so impressed with your ability to navigate
489
00:23:09.759 --> 00:23:12.880
a full time job, pursuing a passion in the evenings,
490
00:23:12.920 --> 00:23:15.000
and then also making sure that you've got time for
491
00:23:15.240 --> 00:23:20.319
family and other relationships. I do have to ask, though,
492
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:24.160
especially with the last book, in the writing process, there
493
00:23:25.200 --> 00:23:29.759
have there been any similarities expected or unexpected between the
494
00:23:29.839 --> 00:23:33.640
practice of vemed and getting a book published on paper.
495
00:23:34.119 --> 00:23:35.920
They look completely wildly different.
496
00:23:36.000 --> 00:23:38.039
But really, when it comes down to it, I think
497
00:23:38.119 --> 00:23:41.920
really like empathy unites the two things, because in both
498
00:23:42.039 --> 00:23:46.000
cases you really have to really empathize with the people
499
00:23:46.200 --> 00:23:49.400
that you're either writing about or working with, and obviously,
500
00:23:49.440 --> 00:23:52.359
like we all know as vets, you really have to
501
00:23:52.480 --> 00:23:55.680
have such empathy for the animals, but also for the
502
00:23:55.759 --> 00:23:59.160
people involved with those animals, whether they're owners or whether
503
00:23:59.160 --> 00:24:02.400
they're you know, farmers or researchers or whoever you're working with,
504
00:24:02.559 --> 00:24:05.480
the you know, ancillary to those, to those animals you're
505
00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:07.720
working with. You really have to be a people person.
506
00:24:07.880 --> 00:24:10.359
And so you know, I spent so much time when
507
00:24:10.400 --> 00:24:13.200
I was working in Get New Medicines really fascinated by
508
00:24:13.240 --> 00:24:14.680
the people I worked with. And I remember I was
509
00:24:14.680 --> 00:24:17.319
always like asking them what did you work? Like what
510
00:24:17.359 --> 00:24:19.359
are your pasions? Like what are you interested in? Like
511
00:24:19.519 --> 00:24:21.519
I was just like so curious about like their lives
512
00:24:21.559 --> 00:24:24.839
because they were so different to mine. And so you know,
513
00:24:24.920 --> 00:24:26.640
I think that that was that was that thing. And
514
00:24:26.680 --> 00:24:29.200
then like when I'm writing, it's almost like I'm just
515
00:24:29.319 --> 00:24:32.160
kind of like sticky beeking into I think that's a
516
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:34.720
very Australian term, isn't it, sticky beeking is it? Yeah?
517
00:24:34.759 --> 00:24:36.960
Sticky beeing is basically where you're like being a little
518
00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:40.319
bit of a like peeping tom into like their lives.
519
00:24:40.519 --> 00:24:42.640
So I'm like creating these characters, but.
520
00:24:42.640 --> 00:24:45.319
I'm kind of like being a little bit like hey,
521
00:24:45.319 --> 00:24:47.160
what what you what have you got going on? I'm
522
00:24:47.160 --> 00:24:49.279
like looking over their shoulders, being like, hey, you tell me,
523
00:24:49.359 --> 00:24:52.960
tell me what you're doing. And so it kind of
524
00:24:53.000 --> 00:24:56.720
again it's like developing that empathy, it's being curious about people,
525
00:24:57.119 --> 00:25:00.680
and obviously in my latest book, it's also the animal
526
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.559
aspects of it in as well.
527
00:25:02.960 --> 00:25:04.039
So fascinating.
528
00:25:04.480 --> 00:25:08.839
It's so true that empathy is really at the core
529
00:25:09.119 --> 00:25:14.240
of our profession, and I really hadn't thought about how
530
00:25:14.480 --> 00:25:17.000
intimately you need to be able to understand and relate
531
00:25:17.039 --> 00:25:20.519
to your characters as an author as well, And so
532
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:25.039
what a great uniting factor between the two is that
533
00:25:25.519 --> 00:25:28.839
curiosity that you mentioned is at the heart of it
534
00:25:29.160 --> 00:25:32.720
and wanting to make those connections, whether it's in the
535
00:25:32.799 --> 00:25:36.480
exam room or across the pages. I can totally see
536
00:25:36.480 --> 00:25:40.039
why the challenge would be an enticing combination of similar
537
00:25:40.119 --> 00:25:40.680
but different.
538
00:25:40.759 --> 00:25:41.680
It makes a lot of sense.
539
00:25:42.240 --> 00:25:44.599
Well, Keis, thank you so much for coming on the
540
00:25:44.640 --> 00:25:48.799
show and chatting about your career journey and giving us
541
00:25:48.920 --> 00:25:51.200
a little window into what looks like to be a
542
00:25:51.279 --> 00:25:55.519
veterinarian and an author and also a mother. You're balancing
543
00:25:55.559 --> 00:25:59.319
a lot, and your enthusiasm for each of the aspects
544
00:25:59.400 --> 00:26:02.960
of your life life really shines through, and I absolutely
545
00:26:03.000 --> 00:26:05.839
loved hearing from you and your perspective on all things
546
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:07.160
veterinary and beyond.
547
00:26:07.720 --> 00:26:09.599
Thank you, Thank you so much for having me. It
548
00:26:09.640 --> 00:26:10.880
was really fun to chat.
549
00:26:11.200 --> 00:26:13.480
Likewise, and thank you to each of you for joining
550
00:26:13.559 --> 00:26:16.400
us on this episode of My Veterinary Life podcast. We
551
00:26:16.519 --> 00:26:19.000
love sharing this journey with you, and remember, we want
552
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:20.880
to hear from you, so please be sure to leave
553
00:26:20.960 --> 00:26:23.720
us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts or whatever
554
00:26:23.720 --> 00:26:26.279
platform you listen to, and you can also email me
555
00:26:26.480 --> 00:26:29.640
at MVL podcast at ABMA dot org.
556
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:31.599
Take care and we'll see you next time.
