WEBVTT
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00:00:02.319For years I lived in shame.
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00:00:03.919I was embarrassed.
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00:00:07.040I was diagnosed with was survivor's guilt.
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00:00:09.119Life is good, but how can it be great?
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00:00:09.919Life is great.
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00:00:11.439Okay, how can it even be better?
00:00:11.599 -->
00:00:12.880And I wanted to inspire.
00:00:13.039 -->
00:00:16.079I've always wanted to inspire people.
00:00:16.239 -->
00:00:20.239So it means I wasn't not eating to be thin.
00:00:20.719 -->
00:00:25.120I was not eating because I was, you know, paranoid that I would be poisoned.
00:00:25.359 -->
00:00:34.960What do you say to people who kind of maybe feel today that they may be a bit lost and they can't even hear their own voice and know what they're truly, truly deeply passionate about?
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00:00:36.479Go out and explore.
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00:00:41.039There's so many things that you can do besides only being on social media.
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00:00:46.799How were you or how did you begin to start to unravel it and treat it and work through it?
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00:00:50.799You have to be your own self-advocate.
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00:01:00.799I'm just grateful that I lived long enough to be able to get those diagnoses and really be in charge of my own recovery.
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00:01:03.840Natasha, welcome to Multispectrum.
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00:01:06.799I'm so excited to have you on air with us.
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00:01:08.560Thank you for having me.
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00:01:09.920I'm looking forward to this.
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00:01:12.319Why don't we begin from the very beginning, Natasha?
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00:01:17.280Why don't you just tell us a little bit about your childhood and what was it like growing up?
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00:01:20.159So I was born and raised on St.
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00:01:21.920Thomas, Virgin Islands, U.S.
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00:01:22.640Virgin Islands.
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00:01:25.840So a tiny teeny island in the Caribbean.
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00:01:34.079And, you know, I had what I would call at the time a very traditional, I guess, childhood, you know, two parents.
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00:01:36.959Um, my siblings lived with me, very calm.
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00:01:46.239I I mean, I guess what would make my childhood different is that very early on, my parents allowed my sister, my older sister and I, to open up our own store.
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00:01:52.239My mom already had a boutique, and so I think I was 12 at the time, and my sister was 15.
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00:02:01.519We opened up our own storefront and it was a tourist shop, and we, you know, we sold items to the tourists that would come to the area.
00:02:01.680 -->
00:02:05.439So that was kind of a unique experience for me as a child.
00:02:05.599 -->
00:02:11.439I would say, you know, at the time I felt I was very, very common, very typical.
00:02:11.680 -->
00:02:18.400I knew I had some different things, maybe weird, even if you would call them, but they were me.
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00:02:23.439In hindsight, I see how I was just, I was a different child.
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00:02:34.080My my focus, my drive, my ambitions, my interests, sometimes even my hyperfixations, they were all different, but they all shaped me and made me who I am today.
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00:02:44.000I love that your mom kind of really encouraged you guys to start sort of like working at such a young age and like, you know, developing a concept of like savings and money and having that sort of like business drive.
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00:02:49.680Would you say that's kind of like um what shaped you as well in a way to sort of be so ambitious and career-driven today?
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00:02:50.000Yeah.
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00:02:50.639Absolutely.
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00:02:54.560You know, I share that my first experience with work.
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00:02:55.680I'm doing everything.
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00:03:01.439I'm cleaning, stocking, selling, ordering, doing everything that, you know, an owner would do.
00:03:01.599 -->
00:03:10.800And then a few years later, you know, my parents allowed us to open up our store because uh the store was actually, my mom's store was actually named for my sister that's right after me.
00:03:10.960 -->
00:03:11.919So the third girl.
00:03:12.000 -->
00:03:14.960And we're like, you know, why wouldn't you name it after one of us?
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00:03:20.240And so they allowed us to open up a store with our names, which, you know, was was hilarious.
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00:03:22.479My older sister, Stacey, I'm Natasha.
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00:03:24.479We named it Stanasha's.
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00:03:27.199Oh just, I can't even believe we did that.
00:03:27.439 -->
00:03:35.759But it was, you know, it was teaching us from a very early age the, you know, the the culture of ownership.
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00:03:48.159And that it doesn't matter if you are the cashier or you full clothes or you sweep the floors, everyone is required to ensure that this this business, this operation functions and is successful.
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00:03:51.759And so we were doing everything from a very early age.
00:03:51.840 -->
00:03:54.479And that's kind of how I entered the workforce.
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00:03:55.840That's how I approach life.
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00:03:57.840I don't just have one role, one job.
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00:03:59.439I'm there to make it better.
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00:04:01.520And that's just that's just been me.
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00:04:07.360How were you navigating like school life and all of the other aspects of like growing up at the time while doing this as well?
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00:04:08.879I think it was easy.
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00:04:19.759You know, I go to school and right after school, I would go to, you know, our store and relieve the employee that was there, and then I'd work until closing time, six, seven.
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00:04:24.079You know, I'm doing my homework at the store, or I get home and do my homework then.
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00:04:34.560Uh, we kept it open for a few years, and then I think by age 14, so uh maybe two, three years later, we closed it because I was doing more in the community.
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00:04:37.680I started, you know, working in TV.
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00:04:44.480So I was hosting a teen talk show, modeling, acting, speaking, doing a lot of things in on the island.
00:04:44.639 -->
00:04:46.560And it was, it was all fun for me.
00:04:46.639 -->
00:04:51.839And that's why I encourage, you know, children today, go out and explore.
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00:04:56.079There's so many things that you can do besides only being on social media.
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00:05:03.920I had so many experiences by the time I graduated from high school that it really not only prepared me for college, but prepared me for life.
00:05:04.079 -->
00:05:08.160You know, today's kids, I notice, they're sometimes shy with speaking face to face.
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00:05:17.519You've got confidence with texting and with, you know, social media and email, but are you confident enough to speak to an adult, to ask for what you want, to advocate for your own needs?
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00:05:23.040And those were things that I was doing from age nine, you know, negotiating and communicating with adults.
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00:05:27.439So it really, it really laid a foundation for my success as an adult.
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00:05:42.959Do you think that a part of it was also like you were able to enjoy it because it was sort of given to you as an opportunity or presented to you as like a fun opportunity to like learn and grow, as opposed to it being sort of like this is your livelihood, like our lives, our families, life depends on this.
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00:05:49.040Because you were doing it to explore yourself, to build your personality, to build, you know, your skills, your skill sets.
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00:05:56.319Um, and so yeah, the whole the whole way that you viewed it growing up was like, oh, this is a fun activity, you know, was very encouraged.
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00:05:57.040Absolutely.
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00:06:02.000This wasn't a chore, it wasn't work, it wasn't an obligation.
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00:06:21.439It was something that I was uh involved in from the inception, from the name to picking the location, what items we were gonna sell, what would be displayed in the windows, what music played as people shopped, what was selling, what wasn't selling, making deposits, hiring and firing.
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00:06:24.800These are all things that I was doing before age 14.
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00:06:27.279And so it was fun for me, it was exciting.
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00:06:31.759And yeah, did I, you know, miss out on Saturday morning cartoons?
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00:06:37.920Yeah, but at the same time, I was learning something that's proven to be invaluable for me and and it was fun.
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00:06:47.199Would you say that that um sort of attitude of positivity and excitement towards all of this is something that you carry forward with you today as well, in just your general view on life?
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00:06:48.160100%.
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00:06:56.399I, you know, I always say that I don't know how to do something I don't like for a long period of time.
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00:07:00.079I'm like, why would you want to do something that you're not interested in?
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00:07:09.199From a very early age, everything that got my attention, everywhere that I placed my focus and my time was something I was genuinely interested in.
00:07:09.360 -->
00:07:21.759You know, whether it was being on TV, working in my parents' store or in our store, writing for the newspaper, um, where I volunteered, even some of the other jobs that I had as a teenager.
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00:07:25.920They were all things that I was interested in, and I carried that into adulthood.
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00:07:34.399So the work that I've done, the jobs that I've had, where I've volunteered, what boards I've served on, it's always been aligned with my interests, with my passions.
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00:07:53.199And I find that there's greater joy and there's greater fulfillment in doing things that I am naturally drawn to, as opposed to forcing myself to fit or forcing myself to like and enjoy something that everything inside of me is screaming, you know, leave, run away, go away.
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00:07:56.560So passion and that alignment is is huge for me.
00:07:56.800 -->
00:08:06.000What do you say to people who kind of maybe feel today that they may be a bit lost and they can't even hear their own voice and know what they're truly, truly deeply passionate about?
00:08:06.160 -->
00:08:09.680Um listening to this episode today about I think you just said it.
00:08:09.839 -->
00:08:16.800There are there are a lot of people, and I see it even in in my work and with with my clients, that they can't hear their own voice.
00:08:17.040 -->
00:08:19.279And my next question is always why?
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00:08:21.199What what's noisy?
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00:08:23.199What's creating the noise?
00:08:23.519 -->
00:08:28.879And sometimes being able to hear your own voice requires you to separate from the noise.
00:08:29.199 -->
00:08:32.799And that noise may be people in your immediate area, family, friends.
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00:08:39.440It may mean, you know, taking the social media apps off your phone and just, you know, looking at them on your desktop.
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00:08:41.600It may mean turning off the television.
00:08:41.759 -->
00:08:51.840Whatever is the noise that you're hearing that's drowning out your own voice that allows you to be clear on your compass and clear on the direction that your life should be moving in.
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00:08:53.039Silence the noise.
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00:08:59.919You know, I think for me, one thing that has been a theme throughout my life is self-awareness.
00:09:00.159 -->
00:09:01.120I'm very self-aware.
00:09:01.279 -->
00:09:03.840I spend a lot of time with myself, even as a child.
00:09:04.000 -->
00:09:05.679I spent a lot of time with myself.
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00:09:09.360I think a lot, and I am always reflecting on me.
00:09:09.519 -->
00:09:10.879Well, why did I respond that way?
00:09:11.039 -->
00:09:12.000Why did I think that?
00:09:12.159 -->
00:09:13.759Why was that my first thought?
00:09:13.919 -->
00:09:15.440Why was that my first response?
00:09:15.679 -->
00:09:17.039Why did I feel nervous?
00:09:17.200 -->
00:09:18.000That made me happy.
00:09:18.080 -->
00:09:18.799How do I get it?
00:09:18.960 -->
00:09:23.600I'm always thinking about my life because yeah, life is good, but how can it be great?
00:09:23.840 -->
00:09:24.399Life is great.
00:09:24.480 -->
00:09:25.840Okay, how can it even be better?
00:09:26.080 -->
00:09:29.360And it's not about being, you know, in a place of discontent.
00:09:29.519 -->
00:09:38.960It is wanting to ensure that I'm always aligned with me, with my inner compass, with my North Star, that I'm doing things that genuinely fuel me and make me happy.
00:09:39.200 -->
00:09:48.799Because if we're not listening to ourselves, if we're not motivated and driven by what we desire, it is so easy for another voice to come in.
00:09:49.039 -->
00:09:54.320You know, we are between social media and all of the commercials that we see.
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00:10:04.399There is something you spend one hour watching TV or scrolling on social media, and there will be a message to tell you why something is wrong with every part of you from hand to toe.
00:10:04.639 -->
00:10:11.360What conditioner and shampoo you should use, what clothing you should use, why you need to lose weight and get on this weight loss medicine.
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00:10:14.159Those have just increased so much here in America.
00:10:14.320 -->
00:10:15.759You know, who should be your friends?
00:10:15.919 -->
00:10:16.960Why aren't you traveling more?
00:10:17.120 -->
00:10:18.159This should be your work.
00:10:18.320 -->
00:10:22.559Well, all of those things are gonna be true for someone, but are they all true for you?
00:10:22.879 -->
00:10:31.360And and, you know, being swayed, being influence in this world of influencers, you know, sometimes we have to pause and step back and say, you know what?
00:10:31.519 -->
00:10:33.200How do how am I influencing me?
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00:10:34.320What is it that I want?
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00:10:35.039I love it.
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00:10:38.000I feel like these are very essential questions that we should be asking ourselves.
00:10:38.159 -->
00:10:45.039And I feel like this has sort of been a point of like action or actionable uh point that has been raised many different times.
00:10:45.279 -->
00:10:54.080But journaling is so massive because it's the one thing that is not taking in the voices and the noises of other people from social media, from TV.
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00:10:56.559It's literally just you and a blank piece of paper.
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00:11:03.279And you can literally start if you have no thoughts in your head, you can simply start by writing, I have no thoughts in my head right now.
00:11:03.600 -->
00:11:08.720Doop to doop, you know, and allow whatever it is that comes through your head to flow on that paper.
00:11:08.879 -->
00:11:11.679And sooner or later, these kind of questions will start to arise.
00:11:11.840 -->
00:11:13.519These kind of that flow will start to pick up.
00:11:13.600 -->
00:11:25.279It can be picking up a coloring book and just, you know, coloring and letting that sort of mind just wander in its natural kind of state, and it is where sort of like your inner voice starts to kind of speak out to you a little bit more.
00:11:25.360 -->
00:11:26.960So I love journaling.
00:11:27.200 -->
00:11:30.720I've been doing it for seemingly forever since I was a child.
00:11:30.799 -->
00:11:37.120I've got stacks of journals that I feel that I and I love seeing my own evolution.
00:11:37.279 -->
00:11:45.120So, you know, I go back to high school and I'm writing things of, you know, what I'm wearing today and who said hi to me, you know, those kind of childish things.
00:11:45.360 -->
00:11:59.039And over time I see how I'm able to look at how I have, through journaling, walked myself through problem solving, how my perspective has shifted, where my growth is in different areas of my life.
00:11:59.120 -->
00:12:01.600I'm a huge proponent of journaling.
00:12:01.759 -->
00:12:06.799And just like you said, I tell people, you know, if you have nothing to write, just keep writing.
00:12:06.960 -->
00:12:09.919I have nothing to write until something pops into your head.
00:12:10.000 -->
00:12:14.080And pretty soon, after you write it four or five times, you'll have something to write.
00:12:14.240 -->
00:12:21.360You know, I think we're in this day of wanting to do everything correctly and everything in the right way.
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00:12:23.360Journaling is like meditation.
00:12:23.679 -->
00:12:24.960What works for you?
00:12:25.120 -->
00:12:27.919You know, the journaling that might work for me may not work for you.
00:12:28.080 -->
00:12:30.720The meditation that works for me may not work for you.
00:12:30.960 -->
00:12:38.159Do what works for you and keep tweaking it and changing it until you find, you know, your right rhythm and groove.
00:12:38.399 -->
00:12:46.879And yeah, there's so much when it comes to self-care and self-love and the healing journey and all of those buzzwords that we hear about.
00:12:46.960 -->
00:12:48.320It's not cookie cutter.
00:12:48.480 -->
00:12:50.399You've got to do what is gonna work for you.
00:12:50.559 -->
00:12:56.720I know I know you mentioned that you were a little bit different growing up, um, and your in your actions and your thinking.
00:12:56.879 -->
00:13:00.080Can you just elaborate a little bit more on that and what did that look like for you?
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00:13:01.039Absolutely.
00:13:01.279 -->
00:13:06.960I knew from a very early age things that you know I was interested in.
00:13:07.120 -->
00:13:12.000I was interested in modeling, in acting, I wanted to be on television.
00:13:12.240 -->
00:13:19.120And I also recognized that the way that other kids studied didn't work for me.
00:13:19.200 -->
00:13:26.399So one of the things that I did with with studying, I would line up my stuffed animals on my bed and I would teach my stuffed animals.
00:13:26.879 -->
00:13:33.440I would teach them my homework, I would teach them, you know, whatever I had to read that day, and that's how I retained the information.
00:13:33.759 -->
00:13:41.919I wanted to be on television and I taught myself how to look at a camera and how to read from a teleprompter.
00:13:42.080 -->
00:13:49.279And it wasn't because I had a teleprompter at home, I would watch, it was Peter Jennings on ABC Nightly News way back then.
00:13:49.440 -->
00:13:51.360I would record his broadcast.
00:13:51.679 -->
00:14:07.679And growing up in the Virgin Islands, I had a stronger accent, and I would train myself, I would repeat everything that he said so that when I had my big moment on television, I would be able to speak in a neutral accent and I'd be able to broadcast the news.
00:14:07.840 -->
00:14:16.720And so I would put a dot on my wall and pretend that that was my camera, and I would just stare at that dot and just speak.
00:14:16.879 -->
00:14:23.919I practiced speaking without any ums and ahs, and you know, I would have a question and I would answer it.
00:14:24.000 -->
00:14:25.840So I trained myself to be that.
00:14:25.919 -->
00:14:32.720And I was doing this from age nine, not typically what someone at age nine might be doing, but I was I was doing it.
00:14:32.879 -->
00:14:38.480I was practicing poses in the mirror, walking in my mom's high heels because again, I wanted to model.
00:14:38.559 -->
00:14:42.720I would create my own plays and do them in in talent shows.
00:14:42.879 -->
00:14:48.240And I was very clear that I wanted to do things that were fun for me.
00:14:48.480 -->
00:14:49.519Did I try golf?
00:14:49.679 -->
00:14:50.799Yes, didn't enjoy it.
00:14:50.879 -->
00:14:52.000Did I try piano?
00:14:52.159 -->
00:14:53.519Yes, didn't enjoy it.
00:14:53.679 -->
00:14:57.600But what I loved was communications, writing, being on television.
00:14:57.679 -->
00:14:58.480I loved those things.
00:14:58.559 -->
00:15:04.320And so from a very early age, I just knew that I needed to be ready for whenever that opportunity came.
00:15:04.399 -->
00:15:09.039And I was doing this from age nine, and by age 14, I was hosting a teen talk show.
00:15:09.279 -->
00:15:12.320This is a very, very specific kind of field to want to get into.
00:15:12.399 -->
00:15:14.399What sort of inspired you to want that?
00:15:14.559 -->
00:15:19.600Was it just watching TV that inspired you, seeing some celebrities that great question.
00:15:19.919 -->
00:15:22.000I I'm not sure what it was.
00:15:22.159 -->
00:15:26.480I knew I loved writing, and I don't know if that came from how much I journaled.
00:15:26.639 -->
00:15:30.720I don't know if I if that came from an English class and it just sparked my attention.
00:15:30.879 -->
00:15:36.639I knew I had a vivid imagination, but I was always drawn to television.
00:15:36.799 -->
00:15:44.399You know, back then it was Oprah Winfrey and Barbara Walters, you know, Peter Jennings, of course, they were on the news.
00:15:44.639 -->
00:15:46.639I also wanted to do public speaking.
00:15:46.799 -->
00:15:51.759You know, Les Brown is someone who I admire, and I've read his book several times.
00:15:51.840 -->
00:15:53.759I have, you know, one of his books from my childhood.
00:15:53.840 -->
00:15:56.720It's tattered and a little bit raggedy, but I still have it.
00:15:56.879 -->
00:15:58.159And I wanted to inspire.
00:15:58.240 -->
00:16:01.279I've always wanted to inspire people.
00:16:01.679 -->
00:16:10.960Maybe some of my desire to do that came from what I felt were my own adversities and hurdles that I had to overcome as a child.
00:16:11.039 -->
00:16:14.799But woven through everything that I wanted to do, I wanted to inspire people.
00:16:14.960 -->
00:16:16.240I wanted to give people hope.
00:16:16.399 -->
00:16:18.720I wanted them to feel better.
00:16:18.879 -->
00:16:24.159And and also I knew that I was different slash weird.
00:16:24.480 -->
00:16:29.360I did I write backwards and I started writing backwards in first grade.
00:16:29.519 -->
00:16:33.200And it it happened from I would write with both hands.
00:16:33.279 -->
00:16:41.600I was ambidextrous, and I had a nun in my school tell me that I needed to pick one hand or I would mess up my brain.
00:16:41.919 -->
00:16:50.080So in my five-year-old defiant mind, I'm like, fine, I'll write with my right hand, but I'll write backwards and forwards.
00:16:50.320 -->
00:16:54.960So I write as well, I mean, forward, backwards.
00:16:55.039 -->
00:16:56.320It's it's pretty much the same.
00:16:56.480 -->
00:16:59.279My journals are mostly written backwards.
00:16:59.440 -->
00:17:06.240And even when as a child, when I would be teaching my stuffed animals, my dad allowed me to write with chalk on my bedroom walls.
00:17:06.400 -->
00:17:08.079And I would write backwards.
00:17:08.319 -->
00:17:11.279And it is just, it's different.
00:17:11.519 -->
00:17:17.680It is, I don't know if it came from just me being defiant and I'm absolutely going to be my own person.
00:17:17.839 -->
00:17:23.200I don't know if that's some of my inner Aries that I didn't want to be told what to do.
00:17:23.440 -->
00:17:28.079But I always had that fire and passion as a child that I'm going to chart my own course.
00:17:28.160 -->
00:17:31.359And if you tell me no, I will show you why it is a yes.
00:17:31.599 -->
00:17:35.039What would you say, like your teachers and your friends back then would describe you as?
00:17:35.359 -->
00:17:39.200My teachers would say that I was um quiet.
00:17:39.519 -->
00:17:40.799I was a great student.
00:17:40.960 -->
00:17:43.680I'm the one that's sitting in the front row of the class.
00:17:43.839 -->
00:17:45.759You know, I'm I'm helpful.
00:17:46.000 -->
00:17:48.240I'm probably hard on myself.
00:17:48.480 -->
00:17:53.359And in very particular, I wanted perfect scores.
00:17:53.519 -->
00:18:00.880And there was one semester where I achieved a perfect score, 100% on every test, every assignment, every exam.
00:18:01.039 -->
00:18:04.720And so I had 100 across the boards in biology of all things.
00:18:04.880 -->
00:18:11.519But I was very hard on myself, or I had standards for myself in terms of my grades, and I was studying.
00:18:11.759 -->
00:18:16.799So I wanted to see the results of my efforts with studying.
00:18:16.960 -->
00:18:24.400So I think my teachers would say that, you know, great student, uh nice girl, a little too hard on herself, a little bit of a perfectionist.
00:18:24.640 -->
00:18:26.400I was sick a lot as a child.
00:18:26.480 -->
00:18:30.000I had asthma and it was late diagnosed.
00:18:30.160 -->
00:18:31.680So I was sick a lot.
00:18:31.839 -->
00:18:36.240I remember not feeling well a lot of the time.
00:18:36.799 -->
00:18:40.400And I mean, I didn't want to talk to anyone.
00:18:40.559 -->
00:18:42.880I didn't want to be around anyone.
00:18:43.039 -->
00:18:46.160I just wanted to come to school, do what I had to do, and and go home.
00:18:46.319 -->
00:18:47.279I did have some friends.
00:18:47.359 -->
00:18:56.319I did hang out with people, but I was so focused on school and being number one and being the best and and learning.
00:18:56.480 -->
00:18:58.319I really enjoyed learning.
00:18:58.480 -->
00:19:00.640So hanging out even into high school.
00:19:00.880 -->
00:19:02.960I didn't do a lot of of hanging out.
00:19:03.119 -->
00:19:06.799Not because I wasn't invited or there were weren't things to do.
00:19:07.039 -->
00:19:09.440I just preferred my own world.
00:19:09.759 -->
00:19:12.559Natasha, at what point did things turn around for you then?
00:19:12.640 -->
00:19:15.759At what point did things, the adversity sort of really kick in for you?
00:19:16.799 -->
00:19:19.599You know, I'm tempted to say, like, which ones?
00:19:19.839 -->
00:19:24.960I think I've always dealt with with adversity at different stages in my life.
00:19:25.039 -->
00:19:31.359You know, being sick and dealing with asthma as a child, definitely something that I had to hurdle.
00:19:31.519 -->
00:19:34.160I feel that even in high school, that I was different.
00:19:34.240 -->
00:19:39.920I had friends, I knew people, people knew me, but it was a different experience because I was also that girl on TV.
00:19:40.079 -->
00:19:44.960I'm the girl that's hosting, you know, the teen talk show that's aired territory-wide.
00:19:45.119 -->
00:19:53.359And so my friends tended to be people who were also in that same space, who were also, you know, on the cast of the the talk show.
00:19:53.599 -->
00:19:56.400I was different because I also had a business.
00:19:56.720 -->
00:19:58.720I had a business that I was running.
00:19:58.960 -->
00:20:01.200I and then I was sick.
00:20:01.359 -->
00:20:03.920And I'm in school and wanting to be the best.
00:20:04.079 -->
00:20:08.559So it didn't make for a very easy experience.
00:20:08.720 -->
00:20:12.799I definitely felt that there were people who did not like me.
00:20:13.039 -->
00:20:18.960And, you know, that's hard when you want to have friends as a high school student.
00:20:19.200 -->
00:20:22.240Going into college, I felt, you know, different even more.
00:20:22.400 -->
00:20:29.680Going from a small island to Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, first, it's like warm island to cold city.
00:20:29.839 -->
00:20:32.319It's dark, it's gray, it's different.
00:20:32.480 -->
00:20:37.599You know, in in high school, I was one of the top in in my class.
00:20:37.839 -->
00:20:48.000And then going to Pittsburgh and to my school, Duquesne University, it's like, okay, it's like 10,000 number ones, 10,000 top students here.
00:20:48.160 -->
00:20:49.920So that was an adjustment.
00:20:50.160 -->
00:20:55.759Weather was an adjustment, different cultures were an adjustment, not even for me.
00:20:56.000 -->
00:21:00.319It was really other people and how they received me coming from an island.
00:21:00.400 -->
00:21:02.880That was an adjustment, but I found my space.
00:21:03.039 -->
00:21:12.240I think where the adversity kicked up in a different way was likely my sophomore year of college.
00:21:12.400 -->
00:21:18.400And that's when I was feeling or experiencing more mental health symptoms.
00:21:18.720 -->
00:21:20.480I was noticing it more.
00:21:20.640 -->
00:21:23.359And in hindsight, the clues were there.
00:21:23.759 -->
00:21:27.680You know, from grade school to high school, the signs were there.
00:21:27.759 -->
00:21:32.000I think it just caught up with me in my sophomore year of college.
00:21:32.400 -->
00:21:39.759Oftentimes it's one of those things where it's really funny because like as kids, things happen to us, but we live so in the present moment.
00:21:39.839 -->
00:21:45.279We're just so absorbed in like the minute by minute minute, moment by moment situations that are happening.
00:21:45.359 -->
00:21:59.519You can get scolded at one minute, and then the next minute you're running around the playground laughing with no awareness of how deeply etched the words, you know, at that scolding may have touched your soul and has just laid itself resting.
00:22:00.319 -->
00:22:03.200In you for it to only erupt later on in your life.
00:22:03.359 -->
00:22:08.960And the next thing you realize, you're a full-grown adult and you're like, why am I dealing with like feelings of abandonment?
00:22:09.200 -->
00:22:12.240Only then to realize it really steps back all the way back.
00:22:12.400 -->
00:22:20.799And then it's all about undoing all of those kind of narratives that we've held in our heads from something that may have been really unnoticeable in the in the very moment.
00:22:21.119 -->
00:22:22.880What were the what were the signs?
00:22:23.039 -->
00:22:30.799Maybe we can start off by saying, what were the things when you look back on that you recognize now that kind of connect with uh what came to you later on?
00:22:31.119 -->
00:22:42.319The first thing that comes to to mind that is still with me today is the the thought that I'm not liked, that people really don't like you, people really don't like you.
00:22:42.480 -->
00:22:49.599And it's something that I have to work through and overcome more often than I care to.
00:22:49.839 -->
00:22:57.599But that that came from my childhood, and it was really from how people treated me, but also from how I saw myself.
00:22:57.680 -->
00:23:01.839I was sick a lot, and so I felt that people, you know, didn't want to deal with me.
00:23:02.000 -->
00:23:15.200I had allergies and eczema as a child, and so I wore, you know, long sleeves and long skirt and you know high socks because I didn't want people to see see my skin, got teased for that as well.
00:23:15.359 -->
00:23:21.279So every name lizard girl, alligator skin, you know, raisin brand, I got teased for that.
00:23:21.440 -->
00:23:27.119And there were people who also didn't understand my drive and my ambition when it came to school.
00:23:27.279 -->
00:23:28.319So I was the nerd.
00:23:28.400 -->
00:23:30.319I was the, you know, the weird one.
00:23:30.640 -->
00:23:36.319Then there were people who didn't like that, you know, oh, she thinks that she's better than everyone else because she has a store, she has a business.
00:23:36.480 -->
00:23:37.440Then I was on TV.
00:23:37.519 -->
00:23:41.759And so I had different stages of my life where I just wasn't liked at all.
00:23:41.920 -->
00:23:50.000And that carried, that stayed with me through adulthood where it's not even that I am wanting to be liked.
00:23:50.160 -->
00:23:59.599I think I've dealt with a lot of that in therapy, but it is sometimes I enter spaces with the expectation that, all right, yeah, somebody, you know, won't like me, me here.
00:23:59.759 -->
00:24:08.640And even after, you know, grade school, it's going to high school, it was me being sometimes the only woman or the youngest or the thinnest.
00:24:08.880 -->
00:24:12.160I was a model for several years, professional model and acting.
00:24:12.240 -->
00:24:14.960So then it's like, oh, okay, she thinks she's prettier than everyone else.
00:24:15.039 -->
00:24:31.039So there's always been spaces and pockets throughout my life where I'm like, I'm not liked or I'm not going to be like, and I am still working on ensuring that I enter spaces, not with that as a forefront, but hopeful that this is going to be a supportive space.
00:24:31.279 -->
00:24:34.160I dealt with depression, you know, from an early age.
00:24:34.240 -->
00:24:40.799And when I trace it back, is there any one thing that contributed to depression as a child?
00:24:41.119 -->
00:24:41.440No.
00:24:41.920 -->
00:24:51.200But yet, fast forward, and I'm finding poems that I wrote when I was nine and twelve and fifteen about suicide and wanting to jump off of buildings.
00:24:51.519 -->
00:24:56.559And it was so shocking to me as an adult to see this in my journal.
00:24:56.720 -->
00:24:58.000Like, whoa, okay.
00:24:58.319 -->
00:25:01.759So you were dealing with this all along.
00:25:02.000 -->
00:25:09.039And fast forward to adulthood, I still, I still see it woven, woven in there.
00:25:09.359 -->
00:25:19.680And you know, as a child as well, it's one of those things where, let alone there be a diagnosis, people generally tend to struggle with the concept that a young child can experience depression at such a young age.
00:25:19.759 -->
00:25:20.799It's like, what do you mean?
00:25:21.039 -->
00:25:22.160You know, it's not depression.
00:25:22.240 -->
00:25:23.519You're just feeling a little bit sad.
00:25:23.599 -->
00:25:25.839Like go to bed or have a chocolate, you'll be fine.
00:25:26.000 -->
00:25:31.279So oftentimes, like real mental health diagnoses are not being given to a little child.
00:25:31.519 -->
00:25:35.119Because often we we always associate it with like an environmental situation, right?
00:25:35.200 -->
00:25:38.160Like if their environment is good, then what's there to what's there to be?
00:25:38.319 -->
00:25:43.680Um, but maybe we sometimes fail to understand that carry traumas of our ancestors.
00:25:43.839 -->
00:25:46.559We carry traumas, wound like mother wound traumas.
00:25:46.799 -->
00:25:48.640You know, there's there's so many things.
00:25:48.799 -->
00:25:57.519It can be genetic, there's so many reasons for why even a child can experience depression, and it can be just as serious as that of an adult.
00:25:57.680 -->
00:26:06.319But it's only really when we hit adulthood that we start to kind of pay more attention to it and and seek the necessary, you know, diagnoses to have treatments necessary.
00:26:06.640 -->
00:26:21.119Um, did you ever tell your parents or did your parents ever have any hints or ideas that never never shared, you know 20, 30, 40 years ago, we weren't talking globally about mental health in the ways that we do now.
00:26:21.359 -->
00:26:26.559And so there wasn't even language for how I was feeling.
00:26:26.720 -->
00:26:29.200Yeah, there were days that I was sad if I was sick.
00:26:29.359 -->
00:26:32.960There are days that I was sad if, you know, I didn't pass a test.
00:26:33.200 -->
00:26:43.200But uh, you know, beyond just the situational things that happened in my life, there's really no reason for me to be as sad and as depressed as I was.
00:26:43.440 -->
00:26:44.480And and I get it.
00:26:44.640 -->
00:26:51.440I know sometimes, especially in America, you know, clinicians delay with wanting to diagnose a child with anything.
00:26:51.680 -->
00:26:54.799I understand why they would do that.
00:26:55.039 -->
00:27:02.240And I also believe that there is an opportunity to pay attention to the child a little bit more, to see what else is going on.
00:27:02.400 -->
00:27:08.799And I and I find so often that it's almost like adults forget what it was like to be a child.
00:27:09.039 -->
00:27:11.599They forget all of what they noticed as a child.
00:27:11.839 -->
00:27:18.480So how is it that you can go through a divorce and you can be sad, but you just think your child is fine?
00:27:18.559 -->
00:27:23.759Why isn't your child receiving therapy or some counseling or some coaching to help them navigate this time?
00:27:23.920 -->
00:27:29.839You know, children, again here in America, will deal with, you know, um uh school shooting.
00:27:29.920 -->
00:27:38.720They'll see something on the news, or they will, you know, have a lose a friend, you know, whether it is to suicide, to illness, to whatever, their best friend moves away.
00:27:38.799 -->
00:27:40.559And they're not talking to their children about it.
00:27:40.640 -->
00:27:43.359They just go on, like, okay, well, you know, it's just another Tuesday.
00:27:43.519 -->
00:27:44.319No, it's not.
00:27:44.559 -->
00:27:49.759Those are significant experiences that are now in that child's memory.
00:27:49.920 -->
00:27:52.640You know, um, if it's a trauma, it's in their body.
00:27:52.720 -->
00:28:05.200And when you couple that with the epigenetics, with all of the ancestral experiences, there's a lot that's going on for that child, and they don't have life experience or the context to even begin to articulate what they're feeling.
00:28:05.440 -->
00:28:09.039And the other aspect as well is like the idea, the concept of autonomy, right?
00:28:09.119 -->
00:28:15.920Because a little child is on a schedule, they have parents that are dictating the terms of their day-to-day life and business.
00:28:16.160 -->
00:28:20.400Plus, just like what you said, they don't have the words to articulate what they're really experiencing.
00:28:20.559 -->
00:28:20.640Right.
00:28:20.960 -->
00:28:30.400Um, oftentimes, you know, again, like trauma or pain, emotions, sadness, it's very much a very physical kind of thing on a child's body.
00:28:30.480 -->
00:28:40.160So if a if you notice that your child is experiencing uh regular stomach pains or regular certain kinds of uh conditions, usually that's something a lot deeper.
00:28:40.319 -->
00:28:43.359There is some depth to it, there's some emotional depth to it as well.
00:28:43.519 -->
00:28:45.039Um, but we don't pay attention to that.
00:28:45.119 -->
00:28:48.799We just kind of think that the child is complaining about a physical kind of symptom.
00:28:49.039 -->
00:28:54.480And really, it's when we tap into adulthood, we have more autonomy to decide what to do with our lives.
00:28:54.640 -->
00:29:03.279And only then can it like manifest in a way that people take it a little bit more seriously, but we fail to understand that children are very intuitive, they're extremely intuitive.
00:29:03.839 -->
00:29:05.519And I share this with parents all the time.
00:29:05.599 -->
00:29:11.039You know, I've had parents tell me that, you know, oh my gosh, he always has a stomachache before school.
00:29:11.279 -->
00:29:11.599Okay.
00:29:12.079 -->
00:29:16.000Is that physical or is that emotional and mental?
00:29:16.240 -->
00:29:18.240Because you should be curious about that.
00:29:18.319 -->
00:29:18.559Yeah.
00:29:18.720 -->
00:29:28.640You know, if you're you don't have to fight with your child to go to the grocery store, the store, or the park, or anything, why are they having such an adverse reaction to going to school?
00:29:28.960 -->
00:29:31.519Is there something happening at school?
00:29:31.680 -->
00:29:34.640Or do they need to be checked by a doctor for those symptoms?
00:29:34.799 -->
00:29:40.319And, you know, so many times parents are like, no, she's going to school, and you know, that's what it is, and you know, they just force them.
00:29:40.480 -->
00:29:42.240Okay, but what else is going on?
00:29:42.480 -->
00:29:51.839I had a parent whose child, you know, was definitely potty trained, you know, and all of a sudden started, you know, bedwitting.
00:29:51.920 -->
00:29:56.400Like that's not something that naturally occurs for a nine-year-old.
00:29:56.559 -->
00:29:57.519What is going on?
00:29:57.680 -->
00:30:00.400Why all of a sudden is this happening?
00:30:00.640 -->
00:30:03.039And so I encourage parents to get curious.
00:30:03.119 -->
00:30:06.960Like your child is not just being annoying, they're not trying to get on your nerves.
00:30:07.200 -->
00:30:10.240Everything that a child does is information.
00:30:10.480 -->
00:30:18.319Whether they say please and thank you, or they start bedwetting, or they start, you know, cursing, or they're being a bully.
00:30:18.480 -->
00:30:25.680There's it's all information, and it is the the adult's responsibility to use that information accordingly.
00:30:25.920 -->
00:30:31.519You mentioned that you noticed the depression kind of really manifest for you a little bit later.
00:30:31.599 -->
00:30:35.440And you you say that looking back, you know, you know that it was kind of always there along.
00:30:35.519 -->
00:30:39.119Um, was it depression that you were diagnosed with or was it something else?
00:30:39.440 -->
00:30:40.799So that's one of the things.
00:30:40.960 -->
00:30:44.480The first thing that I was diagnosed with was survivor's guilt.
00:30:44.640 -->
00:30:45.920I'm like, what is that?
00:30:46.160 -->
00:30:49.200And that came from me being in New York for 9-11.
00:30:49.680 -->
00:30:54.319And uh I was supposed to be at the World Trade Centers on that day.
00:30:54.559 -->
00:30:58.319And uh shortly in the days after I started fainting all over New York City.
00:30:58.480 -->
00:31:00.960I got everything checked, you know, head to toe.
00:31:01.119 -->
00:31:04.480And then one of my doctors suggested me seeing a psychiatrist.
00:31:04.640 -->
00:31:16.079And when I saw the psychiatrist, you know, she shared that I was dealing with survivors' guilt, and I wasn't really a diagnosis, but it was the anxiety and the panic that I was experiencing that was causing me to faint.
00:31:16.240 -->
00:31:28.319That led to a full diagnosis of bipolar disorder and uh, you know, bouncing between mania and depression, hypomania and depression, panic disorder, major depressive disorder.
00:31:28.559 -->
00:31:42.880Um, I also was diagnosed with PTSD because of the World Trade Centers and also because of the hurricanes that I experienced in the Virgin Islands and EDNOS, which is an eating disorder not otherwise specified.
00:31:42.960 -->
00:31:46.640So it means I wasn't not eating to be thin.
00:31:46.720 -->
00:31:51.119Uh, I was not eating because I was, you know, paranoid that I would be poisoned.
00:31:51.359 -->
00:31:57.200So all of those diagnoses came about in my early 20s, and uh it was a lot.
00:31:57.279 -->
00:31:58.400It was bittersweet.
00:31:58.799 -->
00:32:12.480It was sweet because I finally had a name, a term for what I had been experiencing, what was so painful emotionally and mentally, too painful for me to articulate, but someone had heard of it.
00:32:12.640 -->
00:32:13.359So this is great.
00:32:13.519 -->
00:32:14.480All right, wonderful.
00:32:14.640 -->
00:32:15.920Now, how do I treat this thing?
00:32:16.160 -->
00:32:18.960But then it was also bitter because what does this mean for me?
00:32:19.119 -->
00:32:22.880What does this mean for my goals and life?
00:32:23.039 -->
00:32:24.240And will people judge me?
00:32:24.400 -->
00:32:27.519I was already feeling ostracized, you know, and different.
00:32:27.680 -->
00:32:29.599How does this make me more different?
00:32:29.839 -->
00:32:34.480And so once I got those diagnoses, it was almost like my life was flashing before my eyes.
00:32:34.640 -->
00:32:40.799I was looking at everything, replaying different moments in my life and realizing, oh, that was actually depression.
00:32:40.960 -->
00:32:42.720That was actually, you know, panic.
00:32:42.880 -->
00:32:46.799That was actually a manic or hypomanic cycle.
00:32:46.880 -->
00:32:49.279And I was like, oh, okay, I get it now.
00:32:49.440 -->
00:32:58.640And I'm just grateful that I lived long enough to be able to get those diagnoses and really be in charge of my own recovery.
00:32:58.960 -->
00:33:03.920How were you or how did you begin to start to unravel it and treat it and work through it?
00:33:04.240 -->
00:33:14.240I started with the bipolar disorder because I had no idea what that meant prior to, you know, when I was diagnosed, it used to be called manic depressive disorder.
00:33:14.480 -->
00:33:17.279And I started there because I didn't know what it meant.
00:33:17.359 -->
00:33:22.799So I had to research it, then I had to understand what it meant for me and how it manifested in my life.
00:33:22.960 -->
00:33:28.400And at that time, I was when they call uh rapid cycling mixed states.
00:33:28.559 -->
00:33:38.000So I was going between depression and mania several times a week, sometimes several times a day, which is absolutely exhausting.
00:33:38.160 -->
00:33:41.440I was very symptomatic during that time.
00:33:41.680 -->
00:33:44.079And I had to figure out what that meant for me.
00:33:44.240 -->
00:33:51.599I started medication, you know, which many for many people is like a medication roulette because you try one thing, it's not working.
00:33:51.680 -->
00:34:01.440So you've got to go up, you've got to go down, you've got to, you know, switch to something else, you've got to manage all of the side effects that come with starting a new medication.
00:34:01.599 -->
00:34:08.719But I was so determined to get to a place of meaning to say calm or peace.
00:34:08.880 -->
00:34:10.719I wanted to understand this diagnosis.
00:34:10.880 -->
00:34:19.519I was eager to get back to my life, and I wanted to know how has this diagnosis impacted my life up until this point?
00:34:19.679 -->
00:34:23.920And what could I do to ensure that it didn't impact me in the future?
00:34:24.159 -->
00:34:38.159Now, the time between my diagnosis and when I finally publicly shared my diagnoses for 20 years, maybe, you know, uh, it was a very long time because I was I still had so much shame.
00:34:38.400 -->
00:34:42.000Society still has so much stigma around mental health.
00:34:42.239 -->
00:34:52.559And I I needed to be able to understand and articulate what it meant for me first before I could share that with the world.
00:34:52.800 -->
00:35:02.800So do you feel like for you when you were in your mania stage that you were not recognizing it and more it kind of came to your awareness when you were in the depressive state?
00:35:03.039 -->
00:35:04.400Or yeah?
00:35:04.719 -->
00:35:20.159Yeah, it would definitely, I would know that I was in a manic or hypomanic state when I was heading toward depression or when I had that period of, I call it a five.
00:35:20.320 -->
00:35:27.199So it's like, you know, if zero is, you know, depressed and suicidal and 10 is absolutely hypomanic, haven't slept for five days.
00:35:27.360 -->
00:35:35.280When I was at that five, I'd be like, oh, okay, so I guess that was mania because mania, when it starts, it feels great.
00:35:35.440 -->
00:35:40.719You're excited, you're happy, you are energized, you can take over the world.
00:35:40.880 -->
00:35:43.360I am going to write three books this weekend.
00:35:43.440 -->
00:35:46.159I'm going to walk to California and prove that it can be done.
00:35:46.320 -->
00:35:49.840I'm going to do 52 podcasts in this month.
00:35:50.000 -->
00:35:54.559You have all of this excitement and energy, it's the delusions of grandeur.
00:35:54.719 -->
00:36:01.519And then as soon as it begins to fade, and you're like, okay, why was I writing three books at one time?
00:36:01.760 -->
00:36:03.360No, I'll just focus on one.
00:36:03.519 -->
00:36:06.719And then as it continues to slip, he's like, I don't want to write any book.
00:36:06.800 -->
00:36:07.760This is dumb.
00:36:08.159 -->
00:36:09.840Who's going to read this book?
00:36:10.000 -->
00:36:12.000I'm just going to lay here for a while.
00:36:12.159 -->
00:36:20.480And so that that emotional, mental, and sometimes even physical shift and swing could be so exhausting.
00:36:20.880 -->
00:36:22.719But that's when I first got diagnosed.
00:36:22.880 -->
00:36:26.239Now I'm aware of what sounds and what looks like mania.
00:36:26.400 -->
00:36:29.199Like, okay, that was one night that you didn't sleep.
00:36:29.280 -->
00:36:33.039If you don't sleep tonight, then we're shutting everything down so you can get some rest.
00:36:33.280 -->
00:36:37.760Or, you know, when I have an idea of yes, I'm going to build a website in an hour.
00:36:37.920 -->
00:36:39.840Like, okay, yeah, no, you're not.
00:36:40.079 -->
00:36:41.760Let's uh let's do something else.
00:36:41.920 -->
00:36:43.519And it's the same thing with depression.
00:36:43.679 -->
00:36:50.159If I've got, you know, two days back to back where I'm not leaving the house, it's like, all right, okay, now we need to shift.
00:36:50.320 -->
00:36:52.079We need to read something differently.
00:36:52.239 -->
00:36:53.599We need to get you outside.
00:36:53.760 -->
00:36:55.920Sometimes it's a medication shift.
00:36:56.079 -->
00:37:01.280Sometimes it is, you know, making myself go out and hang out with friends.
00:37:01.440 -->
00:37:05.679Sometimes it's paying attention to what just entered my ecosystem.
00:37:05.840 -->
00:37:07.360Is it news that I received?
00:37:07.519 -->
00:37:08.800Is it a full moon?
00:37:09.039 -->
00:37:13.280Because three days before, three days after the full moon, moods can fluctuate.
00:37:13.440 -->
00:37:14.079What's going on?
00:37:14.159 -->
00:37:21.440So I'm very self-aware so that I'm the first person that knows that my mood has shifted and I'm not bringing that to anyone else.
00:37:21.760 -->
00:37:28.719I interviewed a general, um, an army general who had bipolar for a long time.
00:37:28.800 -->
00:37:32.800And he was he was kind of living in a state of mania for several years.
00:37:32.960 -->
00:37:44.000It was years, and he got promoted and he had all this energy in the workplace until it started becoming hallucinations and delusions, and it got to a point where his whole life he was like going up, climbing up the ladder.
00:37:44.079 -->
00:37:49.840He was seen as this really, really energetic and really positive person until at some point people were like, You need to calm down, you need to slow down.
00:37:49.920 -->
00:37:51.119And there was no concept of that.
00:37:51.280 -->
00:37:58.480And when the depression hit is when he knew that that something was wrong, and he decided to go and get himself checked out.
00:37:58.639 -->
00:38:07.440So, you know, it was like it was it was that switch into depression as well that kind of made him realize that I'm I'm at a brink of really doing something very, very bad here.
00:38:07.679 -->
00:38:11.280Um but he mentioned that he did have a lot of hallucinations and delusions.
00:38:11.360 -->
00:38:15.440Was that something that you also experienced, like some hallutions, actual hallucinations?
00:38:16.000 -->
00:38:17.760No, I have in in my life.
00:38:18.000 -->
00:38:21.360It is, you know, my diagnosis is bipolar too.
00:38:21.440 -->
00:38:23.360So that's on the hypomanic side.
00:38:23.440 -->
00:38:29.599I don't get into the paranoia and delusions um typically associated with someone that has bipolar one.
00:38:30.079 -->
00:38:33.440But I it I would say that mine are in a different form.
00:38:33.599 -->
00:38:49.760So it's the stories that I made up in my mind, usually about people who don't like me, usually about why I don't I'm not liked and I don't belong, and you know, people are talking about me, and and none of that is is happening, or at least not to the degree that I I think.
00:38:49.920 -->
00:38:53.119And the thing about mania and hypomania is that it feels good.
00:38:53.280 -->
00:38:54.639It feels good when it started.
00:38:54.719 -->
00:38:57.599So I understand that generals like I get so much done.
00:38:57.760 -->
00:39:06.079And there are times in my life where I've said, you know, I I I want to be manic because then I can get this this you know house cleaned, you know, I can get caught up on some things.
00:39:06.159 -->
00:39:07.840Just give me like two nights.
00:39:08.079 -->
00:39:19.199But, you know, the the the the draw to hypomania is to be productive, but in that productivity, it's dangerous because you're not sleeping.
00:39:19.440 -->
00:39:24.159And not sleeping is like, you know, the kryptonite.
00:39:24.480 -->
00:39:31.199It's what can really send you into a hallucination or paranoia cycle, or even to the opposite with depression.
00:39:31.360 -->
00:39:34.559So it's it's it's something that you have to balance.
00:39:34.639 -->
00:39:37.039It can look differently from person to person.
00:39:37.280 -->
00:39:45.840But I am, you know, I'm I'm on it and I'm studying me and always researching to understand how to to better live with it.
00:39:46.159 -->
00:39:48.079Yeah, that's that's amazing.
00:39:48.320 -->
00:40:10.239Um yeah, because it's not easy to kind of have to navigate something like this, not only with trying to with getting a diagnosis and trying different kinds of medication, knowing some of it may work, some of it might have worse symptoms and stuff, but to also kind of recognize that it is really tempting to go into that mania because of I know how powerful I can become, but I have to kind of stay on track and not let myself get go too far with this.
00:40:10.480 -->
00:40:13.280You know, I knew when it with 9-11, I knew that it was there.
00:40:13.440 -->
00:40:20.559I knew that it was something that I was dealing with, and it was um, you know, just thoughts.
00:40:20.800 -->
00:40:25.199You know, it was the scent of New York at that time.
00:40:25.679 -->
00:40:36.159Every year on 9-11, I'm off social media, I'm off the TV because I do not agree with showing those scenes over and over and over.
00:40:36.239 -->
00:40:38.719It's like every year we rip the band-aid off and we watch it again.
00:40:38.800 -->
00:40:40.480Like, why are we why are we doing this?
00:40:40.639 -->
00:40:41.920So I stay away from that.
00:40:42.079 -->
00:40:55.119With the hurricanes, it was when I moved to Tampa, Florida, that I realized how much I did not like thunder and lightning because Tampa is one of the lightning capitals, you know, of the nation or the world.
00:40:55.199 -->
00:40:58.000And so there's a lot of lightning and thunder here.
00:40:58.079 -->
00:41:02.559And when I moved to him, like, okay, well, no one told me about this, and I hated it.
00:41:02.639 -->
00:41:04.719So I would go into my closet and hide.
00:41:04.960 -->
00:41:17.440The EDNOS, I, you know, have I'm aware that I've had disordered eating, and it's not related to, you know, wanting to be thin or or skinny.
00:41:17.599 -->
00:41:22.400It's at times I I just don't want to eat.
00:41:22.559 -->
00:41:24.320I don't have an appetite.
00:41:24.480 -->
00:41:36.719How it has presented for me, I've had times in my life where I did purge, and so I've torn my esophagus before from purging, and extremely painful, by the way, extremely painful.
00:41:36.880 -->
00:41:45.119And when you're living with something like bipolar disorder, and you at times feel out of control, you want to control what you can.
00:41:45.280 -->
00:41:50.480And one of the first things that you control can control is what you put in your mouth.
00:41:50.800 -->
00:41:52.800And that's one of the things I did.
00:41:53.039 -->
00:41:56.159It's uh it sounds like it's pretty intense, like that, the experiences that you were having.
00:41:56.239 -->
00:42:07.519And it kind of I also kind of understood because I was about to ask you as well initially about how you were being diagnosed with it, um, or how do usually um like um psychiatrists would they diagnose you for something like this?
00:42:07.679 -->
00:42:21.840Is it usually just a couple of sessions of therapy and discussion with you, hearing what your experiences were to be able to diagnose you, or are there actually any um chemical tests, medical tests that they do that they conduct to be able to diagnose this?
00:42:21.920 -->
00:42:24.400Yeah, I'd be curious as to how they kind of came to this.
00:42:24.639 -->
00:42:25.119Yeah.
00:42:25.440 -->
00:42:30.400And so my initial round of diagnoses uh was self-report.
00:42:30.639 -->
00:42:41.440So I'm I'm the historian and it was meeting with the psychiatrist, sharing, you know, my life experiences, sharing a lot about the symptoms that I was having at the time, when they would show up.
00:42:41.679 -->
00:42:50.480And then uh, you know, over those two sessions, coming up with a, well, they came up with a the diagnosis that really fit.
00:42:50.639 -->
00:42:53.840And I've had many people ask me, like, well, Natasha, are you really bipolar?
00:42:53.920 -->
00:42:54.559Are you really this?
00:42:54.639 -->
00:42:56.639I'm like, listen, the medicine worked.
00:42:56.880 -->
00:43:02.800The medicine worked for me at the time, you know, it made me less suicidal, less depressed.
00:43:02.880 -->
00:43:04.559And so I'm okay with that.
00:43:04.800 -->
00:43:13.039Fast forward, you know, I had uh two years ago, I had updated diagnoses because with new information, you know, we we explore.
00:43:13.199 -->
00:43:22.320And the psychiatrist that I met with and and the psychologists after, they're like, you know, you may not be um bipolar type two.
00:43:22.719 -->
00:43:26.239You're actually with the symptoms that you have are more bipolar type one.
00:43:26.559 -->
00:43:28.480And that's like, interesting.
00:43:28.800 -->
00:43:30.639Okay, so and what next?
00:43:30.719 -->
00:43:34.400You're like, yeah, and there's also an ADHD component.
00:43:34.480 -->
00:43:41.199And this is why it's so great to remain close to your doctors, your clinical team while doing your own research.
00:43:41.360 -->
00:43:51.360Because bipolar disorder, there's some symptoms that overlap with ADHD, attention, deficit, hyperactive, hyperactive disorder.
00:43:51.599 -->
00:43:54.800Some of those symptoms also overlap with autism.
00:43:55.599 -->
00:43:59.760Bipolar disorder in it is major depressive.
00:44:00.159 -->
00:44:00.880Disorder.
00:44:01.199 -->
00:44:05.119And all of those things combined can lead to panic and anxiety.
00:44:05.199 -->
00:44:08.079So symptoms overlap and mirror themselves.
00:44:08.159 -->
00:44:15.760So really the treatment that I received in terms of medication was managing and lessening those symptoms.
00:44:16.000 -->
00:44:23.840And yeah, you know, I have heard of some people doing some testing, you know, chemical testing, brain scans, things like that.
00:44:24.000 -->
00:44:33.760For me, and in my experience, it is something where, you know, I self-reported, I shared what I was experiencing, and I'm very, you know, communicative with my team.
00:44:33.920 -->
00:44:37.280So if I'm on a medicine and I'm like, okay, that is definitely too strong.
00:44:37.360 -->
00:44:46.400I still feel like a zombie, then we we scale it back and I communicate with them because I want to be an active participant in my recovery, in my treatment.
00:44:46.480 -->
00:44:47.679I want to feel better.
00:44:47.920 -->
00:44:56.880And my goal when I work with people, when I advocate, when I have my clients, is you have to be your own self-advocate.
00:44:57.119 -->
00:45:00.639You have to push and fight for what you want and what you need.
00:45:00.960 -->
00:45:04.639This is mental health is something that changes over time.
00:45:04.800 -->
00:45:08.239You know, during COVID, I saw an increase in symptoms.
00:45:08.400 -->
00:45:08.639Why?
00:45:08.800 -->
00:45:10.159Because the world was heavy.
00:45:10.320 -->
00:45:11.679There's so much going on.
00:45:11.840 -->
00:45:13.760People were experiencing so many things.
00:45:13.920 -->
00:45:18.000So depending on what's going on in your life, you may need a little bit extra support.
00:45:18.159 -->
00:45:22.320You may need to see your therapist once a week instead of once a month.
00:45:22.400 -->
00:45:23.920You may need to go back on medicine.
00:45:24.000 -->
00:45:26.719And it's okay because mental health is health.
00:45:26.960 -->
00:45:37.119I love that you said that it's also ever-evolving because I think a lot of people fear being uh diagnosed because they fear that it's like a label they're gonna forever be attached to.
00:45:37.280 -->
00:45:39.360But it doesn't necessarily have to be the case.
00:45:39.519 -->
00:45:48.719It's you know, a lot of it is very manageable, um, and a lot of it can be changed and altered along the way as well, as you learn how to kind of like manage and live with it.
00:45:48.880 -->
00:45:55.199You know, and I've been recommended to do autism, you know, testing, and that's probably something that I'll do in the future.
00:45:55.440 -->
00:46:00.480The term newer divergent that came about in the last what five, ten years.
00:46:00.880 -->
00:46:09.760When I look at the definition, when I hear people's stories, I'm like, yeah, I can definitely see how newer divergence was part of my my childhood.
00:46:09.920 -->
00:46:11.599I could definitely see that.
00:46:11.840 -->
00:46:22.880But what I I tell people are all of these things are just, you know, it's ingredients in the soup, ingredients in the jambalaya or the paella that makes you you.
00:46:23.280 -->
00:46:27.599I am a middle child, I am an Aries, I'm a Caribbean girl.
00:46:27.840 -->
00:46:35.519Throw in, I also was diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but I'm also a speaker and an author and an advocate and an activist and so many other things.
00:46:35.599 -->
00:46:43.519And so there isn't any one thing, and that's really what made me want to be public with sharing my story and my experiences.
00:46:44.000 -->
00:46:45.440This doesn't define me.
00:46:45.599 -->
00:46:50.079And if you allow it to define me in your eyes, that's on you.
00:46:50.159 -->
00:46:54.320That's not my issue because there's so much more to me than just that.
00:46:54.639 -->
00:46:56.639Does it affect my life in different ways?
00:46:56.800 -->
00:47:06.480Yes, but if we're not ashamed to say, you know, oh, I live with lupus or fibromyalgia, why should I be ashamed to say that I was diagnosed with bipolar disorder?
00:47:06.559 -->
00:47:09.360It's I didn't ask for this, it's a health condition.
00:47:09.760 -->
00:47:10.320Yeah.
00:47:10.960 -->
00:47:12.559Did it ever define you though?
00:47:13.440 -->
00:47:14.159Oh yeah.
00:47:14.480 -->
00:47:15.199Oh yeah.
00:47:15.440 -->
00:47:19.199And and for years, for years, I lived in shame.
00:47:19.440 -->
00:47:20.800I was embarrassed.
00:47:21.119 -->
00:47:27.039I was looking at it as as a flaw, you know, as a failing, as a character flaw.
00:47:27.119 -->
00:47:32.400I thought that I could just read enough self-help books and motivate myself out of depression.
00:47:32.559 -->
00:47:35.440I can just will myself through these panic attacks.
00:47:35.599 -->
00:47:41.199I can just, you know, compel myself with, you know, positive thinking.
00:47:41.360 -->
00:47:42.800No, it doesn't work like that.
00:47:43.199 -->
00:47:44.400It doesn't work like that.
00:47:44.559 -->
00:47:49.840You know, that's like saying, telling someone, like, okay, I'm just going to will my blood sugar to be normal.
00:47:50.079 -->
00:47:51.840Okay, let me know how that works.
00:47:52.000 -->
00:48:02.719This is something, and and I tell people I have tried just about everything in my quest to get to a place where I can manage the fluctuations of my mood.
00:48:03.039 -->
00:48:15.519Therapy, coaching, counseling, reading, TED talks, playing with puppies, buying myself flowers, tapping, cleansing my gut, changing my diet, meditation, sea baths, you know, going to the I've done everything.
00:48:15.840 -->
00:48:19.360I have done, you know, research different religions.
00:48:19.599 -->
00:48:20.960I have done it.
00:48:21.360 -->
00:48:28.320It's not something that is that is a one size fits all or a quick fix.
00:48:28.559 -->
00:48:30.480This is something that you have to learn you.
00:48:30.639 -->
00:48:33.599You can line up 10 people with bipolar disorder.
00:48:33.760 -->
00:48:37.599They'll all say that they experience depression and episodes of mania.
00:48:37.760 -->
00:48:40.159But how it manifests in their life is going to be different.
00:48:40.239 -->
00:48:43.679Someone is going to say, when I'm when I'm manic, I I gamble.
00:48:43.840 -->
00:48:49.360Another one will say, when I'm manic, I I spent, you know, my mortgage on clothes.
00:48:49.519 -->
00:48:52.480Another one will say, you know, I I quit my job.
00:48:52.719 -->
00:48:53.920Something that I've done.
00:48:54.079 -->
00:49:05.519And so it's it's it's different and it's something that needs compassion and empathy in the same way that we would give compassion and empathy to any other health challenge.
00:49:05.840 -->
00:49:19.599Do you feel like for you, when you were trying to control the situation, you know, when you mentioned that you um it defined you and you were seeking out all of these things and you were trying to will it to change, do you feel like that actually helped?
00:49:19.679 -->
00:49:29.440Or do you feel like that the moment that you kind of let go of this need, need, need to change and you stop define letting it define you and letting it control you, that the change actually happened.
00:49:29.519 -->
00:49:33.679So at what point did that kind of narrative change for you when you start to really love yourself with it?
00:49:34.000 -->
00:49:42.320I'd say it was a journey between 2016 and the ended September 22nd, 2019.
00:49:42.719 -->
00:49:54.159It was me, I was having a recurring dream, well, nightmare, that TMZ would put a camera and microphone in my face and say, Isn't it true you were diagnosed with bipolar disorder?
00:49:54.400 -->
00:49:56.239And I'd wake up and I'd panic.
00:49:56.400 -->
00:49:58.880I was so afraid of people finding out.
00:49:59.039 -->
00:50:03.440You know, for years I lived with this quietly, silently to myself.
00:50:03.760 -->
00:50:06.079And it was taking over my life.
00:50:06.159 -->
00:50:16.320I realized that the pain of remaining in the shadows was worse than the pain of anyone finding out the diagnosis.
00:50:16.480 -->
00:50:18.159And it's like, okay, I'm just gonna share.
00:50:18.400 -->
00:50:24.239So once you started sharing this, what were the responses that you were getting and how did it get to you to where you are today?
00:50:24.480 -->
00:50:26.960So I shared in a very big way.
00:50:27.280 -->
00:50:35.840I participated in a show called This Is My Brave, and it's a nonprofit that seeks to end mental health stigma by through storytelling.
00:50:36.000 -->
00:50:41.039And I opened the shows in Orlando, Florida, September 22nd, 2019.
00:50:41.360 -->
00:50:51.440And I, in my six, seven-minute, you know, performance share, I told the world, I put it on YouTube, I shared it on my social media.
00:50:51.519 -->
00:50:53.760I'm like, okay, this is me, it's out.
00:50:53.920 -->
00:50:56.960And the response was phenomenal.
00:50:57.119 -->
00:50:59.519It was, oh my gosh, you're so brave.
00:50:59.840 -->
00:51:02.000Wow, thank you for sharing.
00:51:02.159 -->
00:51:04.159Um, you know, I never knew.
00:51:04.400 -->
00:51:05.360This is amazing.
00:51:05.440 -->
00:51:06.719I deal with it too.
00:51:06.880 -->
00:51:23.440So the response has been great, and it really fueled me to continue on this path of being a mental health educator and coach and speaker because I know that there are more people who are living in shame and living in silence and in fear.
00:51:23.599 -->
00:51:26.000And it's not about everyone being public.
00:51:26.159 -->
00:51:27.360You know, I this is my story.
00:51:27.440 -->
00:51:28.639This is this is my journey.
00:51:28.800 -->
00:51:33.039I'm not calling for everyone to post on their social media what they're dealing with.
00:51:33.360 -->
00:51:51.280But it is for people to become a greater self-advocate and ask the questions of their doctor, ask for what they need, you know, reach out for support, knowing that there are other people who understand that they're not alone, that it's okay to not be okay.
00:51:51.440 -->
00:51:54.480It's okay to try something new and different.
00:51:54.639 -->
00:51:55.840Therapy is okay.
00:51:56.000 -->
00:51:57.599Trying medicine is okay.
00:51:57.760 -->
00:52:03.119What's going to get you leading a fulfilling life?
00:52:03.280 -->
00:52:05.360Whatever that is, it's okay to do that.
00:52:05.440 -->
00:52:06.480And that's what I want to do.
00:52:06.639 -->
00:52:08.159I want to give people hope.
00:52:08.400 -->
00:52:13.360I want to, I want people to know that it's that there's nothing wrong with you.
00:52:13.440 -->
00:52:18.800You're not defective, you're not flawed, that it this is a health condition, just like anything else.
00:52:19.119 -->
00:52:22.719Final question, please share with us your books.
00:52:22.960 -->
00:52:33.280So, my first book, um, Provoking Thoughts, Volume 1, that was a project I did because I was tired of saying that I'm about to write a book and never writing one.
00:52:33.440 -->
00:52:39.679So, from my journals, I took 101 quotes from my journals and I put it in in a book.
00:52:39.840 -->
00:52:45.760My next book, Jumpstart Your Happy, get closer to happiness now, is all about how I lost my happy.
00:52:45.920 -->
00:52:49.440From 2019 to 2023, I lost 18 people.
00:52:49.519 -->
00:52:51.760Um, and of course, that's during that COVID time too.
00:52:51.840 -->
00:52:52.880So I lost 18 people.
00:52:52.960 -->
00:52:55.760I went through two professional work splits.
00:52:56.079 -->
00:53:03.360I had several friendship breakups, and I was also in the hospital with uh organ failure and sepsis.
00:53:03.599 -->
00:53:05.920And it was a period of time where I lost my happy.
00:53:06.000 -->
00:53:09.840I was angry, I was a megaholic, just negative all the time.
00:53:09.920 -->
00:53:13.760And I wrote a book to detail how I was gonna get my happy back.
00:53:13.920 -->
00:53:23.039And so that one came out in September of 2022, and my most recent book is Imposter Syndrome is your green light, why doubt is your superpower.
00:53:23.199 -->
00:53:29.360And I wrote that one because I recognized that there are still areas of my life where I was self-selecting out of opportunities.
00:53:29.519 -->
00:53:33.519And as I spoke with clients, I kept hearing it over and over imposter syndrome, imposter syndrome.
00:53:33.599 -->
00:53:35.679I'm like, you're smart, you're brilliant, you're capable.
00:53:35.760 -->
00:53:38.159What are you, what are you doubting yourself for?
00:53:38.320 -->
00:53:41.599But it's something that we, we, many of us feel.
00:53:41.679 -->
00:53:50.719And so I wrote a book after thinking about how it showed up in my life to show that self-doubt, when it shows up, that's really your opportunity to proceed.
00:53:50.880 -->
00:53:59.119Because it only shows up right when you're on your growth edge, right when you're about to do something new, right when you're about to do something that you consider to be meaningful in high stakes.
00:53:59.280 -->
00:54:04.239You're not getting nervous, and self-doubt isn't showing up when you are making a sandwich.
00:54:04.400 -->
00:54:09.840It's only showing up when you're about to go for a promotion, write a book, launch a podcast, do something exciting.
00:54:10.000 -->
00:54:17.920And so when it shows up, use it as a green light that that's your permission to proceed and go full force.
00:54:18.320 -->
00:54:19.039I love that.
00:54:19.119 -->
00:54:19.920That's so powerful.
00:54:20.000 -->
00:54:25.119Otherwise, I was just about to ask you for like final messages, but I feel like that in itself is such a beautiful message.
00:54:25.519 -->
00:54:26.239Um, thank you.
00:54:26.400 -->
00:54:28.239Can they find your books on Amazon?
00:54:28.400 -->
00:54:29.920Do you have it on your website?
00:54:30.159 -->
00:54:30.480Yeah.
00:54:30.719 -->
00:54:33.679Yeah, they're on my website, natashapier.com.
00:54:33.840 -->
00:54:35.760All of my books are on Amazon.
00:54:35.920 -->
00:54:40.239And for my, let's see if I have it for this one, the imposter syndrome one.
00:54:40.480 -->
00:54:43.679This one is, I did it on its printed book.
00:54:43.760 -->
00:54:46.800It's on Kindle, and I also did an audio book for this.
00:54:46.880 -->
00:54:48.400So it is on Audible.
00:54:48.639 -->
00:54:55.840And uh heard that people love reading the book, but they also love hearing me read the book or hearing me say it.
00:54:56.000 -->
00:55:00.480So the book is in my words, it's my voice, and yeah, they're all on Amazon.
00:55:01.039 -->
00:55:01.679Amazing.
00:55:01.840 -->
00:55:07.199Thank you so much, Tasha, for today, for sharing your journey, for the insight, and for everything, really.
00:55:08.159 -->
00:55:09.119Thank you so much.
00:55:09.280 -->
00:55:10.480I appreciate it.
00:55:11.119 -->
00:55:15.920If you enjoyed the episode and would like to help support the show, please follow and subscribe.
00:55:16.079 -->
00:55:20.400You can rate and review your feedback on any of our platforms listed in the description.
00:55:20.639 -->
00:55:25.119I'd like to recognize our guests who are vulnerable and open to share their life experiences with us.
00:55:25.679 -->
00:55:27.519Thank you for showing us we are human.
00:55:28.719 -->
00:55:32.000Also, a thank you to our team who worked so hard behind the scenes to make it happen.
00:55:33.760 -->
00:55:34.639That's the fundamental.
00:55:37.760 -->
00:55:42.079I'm Jenica, host and writer of the show, and you're listening to Multispector.
