00:00:01
Speaker 1: The Bengals storm into the Steel City, looking to pitch Pittsburgh into the recycling bin. Just saying the word Pittsburgh makes me want to puke. The Bengals slug it out with the Steelers. Sunday, coverage begins at 9 a.m. Stream for free on the new and improved iHeartRadio app or on ESPN 1530, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals. It's the Bengals and Steelers.
00:00:30
Speaker 2: I'll be the Bengals and Steelers on Sunday. What's up? Good afternoon. I'm Mo Egger.
00:00:33
Speaker 3: This is ESPN 1530. Thank you very much for listening. I hope you're having an awesome Tuesday afternoon. Speaking of awesome, we're in an awesome place right now. The Carnegie Hall in Newport. Check this place out. NewportCarnegie.com. One of the best event venues you will ever see. I'm not having another wedding, ever. I mean, my daughter might get married one day. I guess I'll have to foot the bill for that. But if I have any say, this place here is where we're going to be doing that. You could have the wedding here. You could have the reception here. You could also host a radio show if you want, if you have one. I'm lucky enough that I do. So we're here at the Carnegie Hall in Newport. This event venue, part of the folks at Delightmore, they have a series of awesome venues all throughout the greater Cincinnati area. Last week, we were lucky enough to be at Mercantile Immersive, where, by the way, they will have a Bengals Steelers watch party on Sunday. You can learn more about that at mercantileimmersive.com. Today, though, we're across the river in Newport at Carnegie Hall, and a great day to be here. Love this place. And, of course, our guy Paul Daner Jr. is here from the Athletic and the Growler podcast on the Bengals.
00:01:44
Speaker 2: How's it going? I'm doing great. How are you doing? I'm well. I'm well.
00:01:47
Speaker 3: They're 2-0.
00:01:48
Speaker 2: Everybody's happy. The vibes are good.
00:01:51
Speaker 3: The vibes are good.
00:01:52
Speaker 2: It's hard to... We've seen the opposite side of the vibes after two games. I did a... I'm sure we'll talk plenty about Pittsburgh, but I did a little interview with our athletic Pittsburgh writer earlier today. The vibe's not so good there. And I was like, this is... Hearing him, I was like, this is familiar. This is the feeling that I'm used to hearing and seeing around Pittsburgh. two games where you start to question how will a lot of people survive said season and you can feel that. So it was a good reminder of just how far this team has come to not be feeling the way that they're feeling in Pittsburgh.
00:02:33
Speaker 3: I went on a Pittsburgh sports talk radio show. earlier this afternoon, and I just randomly said, I'm enjoying watching the Joey Porter Jr. stuff play out.
00:02:41
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:02:43
Speaker 3: And I said, I know firsthand the goldmine that this could be for you guys, but it is nice to watch another city have to wrestle with something like that.
00:02:52
Speaker 2: Yeah. Every time I would open my athletic app, because I follow a lot of people, but the AFC North, all of them, and I would see a story about the latest... As the world turns with Joey Porter Jr., I would smile every time. He'd be like, for once, it's not me. Just happy it's not me having to do this.
00:03:11
Speaker 3: You know how sometimes if there was like a company will have some sort of emergency crisis and they'll fly in a specialist to sort of handle it, consult? You could do that for the athletic in cities where there's a holdout or a hold-in or some sort of contract issue.
00:03:27
Speaker 2: You could sort of consult. the staff on how to handle something like that. Ownership distraction consultant.
00:03:32
Speaker 4: Yes.
00:03:33
Speaker 2: That could be your thing. Maybe I could be a consultant with the players. Have you considered holding your own press conference on the side of a practice field? Seen it, had its ups and downs there, but I think inevitably this might work for you.
00:03:47
Speaker 3: In the athletic, I notice now I get a little game scoreboard thing.
00:03:53
Speaker 2: On my phone for the teams that I follow. You do? Yeah. You in charge of that? I am not on the tech side.
00:04:00
Speaker 4: Okay, gotcha.
00:04:00
Speaker 2: No, those little game bugs are nice, though, actually. You can hop in there, and I'll go in there and drop some stuff into the chat and take questions at the game every once in a while, like at inactives, and then during the game I'll drop in there, too. So you can chat, you can see stuff. I like those. I kind of like the little bugs that you can follow. So I could ask you questions during the game that you're covering? I mean, you could. I don't, like, I mean, I'd rather you didn't. Okay. Fair.
00:04:27
Speaker 4: Fine.
00:04:27
Speaker 5: Me.
00:04:28
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:04:28
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:04:28
Speaker 2: Others. Others. I'm fine.
00:04:30
Speaker 3: Wait, wait until Tuesday for my question.
00:04:32
Speaker 2: Yeah. You have a whole hour. Okay. I mean, but you know, or just text me, here's what I'm starting with. Okay. Okay.
00:04:37
Speaker 3: Should I put a hundred dollars on cash as how at plus three 30 to be defensive rookie of the year?
00:04:45
Speaker 2: Because this is the guy that I want to talk about the most. Yeah. Yeah. I, it's a great, it's a great value. Um, When you talk about when we start adding up these pressures, when we start adding up what this defense theoretically can do, if what they've started with continues on this pace. Waves. Waves. I know. I had to go one more time. I had to go all the way in. I'm like, how far can I take this? You took it far. To real far. But my thing is, the Bengals' defense, in regards to your betting situation, The Bengals' defense, if it becomes a thing, I mean, the way people are talking about it is going to be such a narrative driver of, oh, my gosh, it's so different. What made it so different? They'll start with Dexter Lawrence, and then if you have Cassius Howell with, I mean, what's he on pace for? 60 pressures and 8 to 10 sags? He's going to be in that conversation. And at plus 330, yeah, I mean, it's hard not to like him. I just, they have, if you look, I was filtering out the second half because like man these second halves they have just been monsters getting after playing with this lead and partially it is very situational it's they've had them in in clear drop back situations with cj and with baker mayfield the week before um but cassius has the most pass rush snaps in the second half for the bangles this year they've given him the most opportunities and he's delivered his pressure rates are high he's he amazingly doesn't have credit for Sack yet, I guess, but he's been the creator of probably half of them, it feels like, just back there forcing the quarterback off his spot. His are going to come. He's just, you know, if they're going to be playing with leads a bunch and playing like this, he seems to be really, really living up to it.
00:06:38
Speaker 3: It's just nice to have an early draft pick who plays defense, who's contributing in year one, because they haven't had any of that.
00:06:47
Speaker 2: Well, Contributing positively. Yeah, contributing positively.
00:06:52
Speaker 3: But, like, Tony and I talked about him yesterday where he's like, you know, if you focus in on him, a lot of guys come from college and, like, good players. First-round picks. They have, like, one or two moves. And then they get here and they need more. Cassius Howell looks like he's got the full bag.
00:07:10
Speaker 2: Al Golden was talking about him in that regard yesterday. He said he's got three. He's, like, he's got speed. He's got, I guess it's whatever, the dip. Mm-hmm. it's called the ghost move you can call a number of different things i just call it teleporting to the quarterback um but and and a counter off of that and when you have three different things you can go to with the with where he's coming from and there'll be more tape out on him i don't think it's going to continue to be i'm not going to say easy but i i think it'll get harder for him but he's got he's got plenty in his bag his speed his feel for it and when to use those has just been great and he's he's just such a player that they haven't had that plays like that, that looks like that and is so built to close. And we, we were sort of talking about that as they look to, how are you going to replace the closing of Trey Hendrickson when you lose him? I mean, he was such a big part of their finishing ability. And I was, we sort of deemed him like the Mariano Rivera of the Bengals of what he did. And now like they have, a bunch of guys that feel, I mean, said Johnson feels like a closer at this point, but when you bring in these fresh speed rushers in the fourth quarter and here's 380 pound Trent Brown on drop back 62, who just is over it and has to try to deal with a speed rusher with fresh legs. Who's 21 years old or whatever. Like, It can be devastating for these guys. It's proven to be that for a couple of weeks, and I think that's the biggest advantage where you see some of the waves, if you will, coming through that have made such a difference. But particularly these young guys off the edge have been really living up to it. It's so contagious when this stuff starts happening and you get everybody contributing.
00:08:57
Speaker 3: He wasn't even on the board before the first game.
00:09:00
Speaker 2: Now plus 3,300.
00:09:00
Speaker 3: So, you know, buy it now.
00:09:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, what value on that? I'd take it.
00:09:05
Speaker 3: Um, yesterday I'm at lunch and I'm, I'm looking at Twitter on my phone and, uh, had somebody been sitting like in the next booth over, they would have thought that I got sent like nudes by somebody because the face I made when I saw your tweet with the 41 pressures.
00:09:22
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
00:09:22
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:09:23
Speaker 3: That is an astounding number.
00:09:25
Speaker 2: I like, it was, I was on my flight back and I was just kind of going through game stats and film or whatever. And I was like, oh, let's look and see. God, there's a lot of pressures here. I wonder what they ended up at. And I see 41, and it's one of those where you're like, oh, I hit the wrong. I must be on the season and not on the game page. So I went back. I was like, wait, am I on a whole previous season? 41, because I had run these numbers before the season started, thinking about what were their previous highs and pressures per season, feeling like that could really add up. It made no sense to me that 41 was a number. It does not even make sense. Their average per season the last six years is 12.6 per game pressures. And against Tampa Bay, in a game where they were really good and super disruptive, they had 14. So I'm looking... I'm looking at 41 and I'm like, what am I doing wrong? This is the pay. I'm adding them all up. There's Mafe with eight and Howell with six. I'm seeing it. They have 40. They created 41. Now, 41 pressures on essentially 27 pressured plays. CJ did drop back a lot. I mean, 65 total dropbacks. But still.
00:10:43
Speaker 2: That is a wild number, but it just goes to show when it's coming from everywhere and you're getting them so many times in third and long and third and long and playing from ahead, and then you have all those guys. It can add up fast, but it quickly got to this is the far end of the spectrum vision of best case scenario for this defensive line is what it looks like where you're looking at a number like 41 that just doesn't even make sense.
00:11:11
Speaker 3: So I saw the tweet. And then I thought, I have a little joke that I'm going to reply with. But I didn't want to get you mad at me. And so I didn't.
00:11:24
Speaker 2: Want to put you in a tough spot. So you wanted to save it for your little show here.
00:11:27
Speaker 3: I wanted to save it for my stupid little show here. And then I thought, I'll look at the ads and somebody else will make the joke. And it's like, only outdone by Orlando Brown. I couldn't come up with the proper joke. Orlando Brown gave up 42 pressures. I really couldn't frame it the right way, and I thought– I was a little bit disappointed in your followers that there was– nobody came back at you with– but it just goes– everybody's in a good mood.
00:11:52
Speaker 2: Everybody's in a good mood, and I think they were like– they were maybe too frozen to tweet. By the 41? By the 41, as I was. Like, it's just– or just double-checking me. Like, there's just– thinking the same thing I was. Like, this can't be a refresh. He's going to, like, edit this tweet. It must have been wrong. And I felt the same way. Yeah. Orlando, I mean– It's not super. It wasn't a super day for Orlando.
00:12:19
Speaker 3: We're going to spend some time on it. I knew you would, so I didn't want to go all the way there. But I'm not going to go there next. We're going to save that for later.
00:12:25
Speaker 2: Okay. Because I don't want to just instantly hit you with the bad stuff. Well, you know, I had this conversation with my editor. We were talking about just plans for what we're going to write this week. And I was like, at some point, we're going to get to Orlando. But it's disingenuous. It's not right to... to get to the one problem when there's so many good things that we need to be talking about right now that are much more the storyline with this team because we always want to revert to, especially after wins, it's like a very typical reversion of all the praise after the game, Monday follow, what about the problem? But I was like, I don't even feel right doing that because there's too many other positive things that we need to focus on here before we start getting into what's the issue. Yeah, and look, there's always an imperfection.
00:13:16
Speaker 3: There's always a question. There's always a flaw, but I'm with you, and I even said that to Tony yesterday. I'm like, all right, we got to talk about Orlando Brown, but I'm not coming out of the gate talking about him, and it's going to be a while because for the second straight week, there were just so many different dudes I wanted to talk about.
00:13:32
Speaker 2: And honestly, Cash's out was at the top of that list. And the guy on the other side of Orlando Brown should probably be where we start either way, and that's Amari Smith. Have you clipped.
00:13:42
Speaker 3: The part of the growler where I gave bold predictions and talked about Amari as being an all-pro?
00:13:47
Speaker 2: I will do that for you. I will go back and do that. I have not done that yet. When he does, I will point out that you said it first. There's a lot of bold predictions that have been streaming in the right direction. A lot of things said before the season, which usually are made to quickly look silly, do not look so silly after a couple of games. You started talking about predictions about where this defense could end up at the end of the season. McPherson, Mims, pressure rates, things like that. There's a lot of things that felt kind of crazy that don't really feel so crazy now.
00:14:18
Speaker 3: Paul Daner Jr. from TheAthletic.com with its new score bug.
00:14:22
Speaker 2: Is that what you call it? What is it called? It's, yeah, it's, I mean, you get a notification. You get a notification. Notification, and you can go into, it's a game. The game has started. Yes, it's like a game day hub where you have all the information there. Our writers drop in there. And if you can't, like.
00:14:37
Speaker 3: If you're not watching the game for some reason or can't listen to it, it.
00:14:40
Speaker 2: Tells you what's going on. It's nice. It is. Thank you.
00:14:42
Speaker 4: I appreciate it.
00:14:43
Speaker 2: I have no hand in it. Visually, aesthetically. I was just told that I need to be contributing to it. Okay. Well, I'm happy to contribute. No, I don't know. I don't want you to contribute to it. Theathletic.com.
00:14:54
Speaker 3: Get the app and also check out the Growler podcast as well.
00:14:58
Speaker 2: Paul's here till four.
00:14:59
Speaker 3: I'm here till six. We're at Carnegie Hall in Newport 19 after three o'clock. This is is ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:15:08
Speaker 7: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530.
00:15:12
Speaker 8: Traffic.
00:15:13
Speaker 9: From the UC Health Traffic Center, no one covers the bingles like ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:15:23
Speaker 3: 24 minutes after 3 o'clock, this is ESPN 1530. Mo Egger, appreciate you listening today. We're broadcasting from Carnegie Hall at Newport, a delight morgue. Exclusive venue, check out NewportCarnegie.com. Paul Daynor Jr. from The Athletic and The Growler Podcast. The game on Sunday, like, if you are looking at it through the lens of like, you know, was this the most entertaining game in the NFL on Sunday? Not even close. Even Tony yesterday is like, you know what? Kind of a boring football game top to bottom, although there was some cool stuff in it. But that is exactly... the kind of game I wanted to see if they could win. I wanted to see if they could win a field position game. I wanted to see on the road against a team that we think is going to be pretty good, a field position game, a game where the offense kind of spun its tires a little bit, a game where the defense had to do maybe a little bit more heavy lifting than you would like. I wanted to see if they could win that sort of game. And so I loved it. As much as, you know, again, we can talk about Orlando Brown or some of the issues the Bengals had taking advantage of good field position early in the game.
00:16:32
Speaker 2: I've said this to you often.
00:16:33
Speaker 3: I think if they're going to win a championship, they have to win a lot of different types of games. That's the kind of game that across the course of a season, you have to figure out a way to win.
00:16:42
Speaker 2: And they did.
00:16:42
Speaker 3: That's what I liked.
00:16:43
Speaker 2: The word used yesterday around the building was grimy a lot, which I like. I like that. It's a good word. But I think it's just showing that they can win. I mean, everybody knows they can win a shootout, and they can win a game that is aesthetically pleased. But can you go in there and win a grimy game against a grimy team and have your defense be the one that makes that happen for you and do the little things right? Win it with fundamentals, like you said, with pinning down four times inside the 13 or whatever it was and stay on that and get stops and get them in third and longs and and do those little things that add up to winning games and understanding that and not messing it up with a dumb turnover or something like that offensively. And I think they did that. They managed the game on offense. They played great on special teams. It's a complete game that took a really good team and took them out of it and did it without having to do anything spectacular. Like I go back, if you go back to... we've been talking a lot about the 21-22 seasons, but if you go back to that 10-game winning streak, it was just, even, it didn't matter. They would just always find a way. They were inevitable, and they would just very much, in a business-like manner, just dispose of teams, because if you had one weakness, they would exploit it enough, and didn't even have to be great in any way to go and beat anybody, and I think those Those types of wins look like Sunday. I'm not saying they're about to go on a streak like that, but that's what it looks like when you have a team like that. That's complete and can do those types of things. I think it showed the continuity of their entire operation. I think it showed itself against Houston. And the special teams helped. Yeah, I mean, do you have any doubt when Evan McPherson walks out there from any distance?
00:18:51
Speaker 3: When they took the five-yard penalty?
00:18:53
Speaker 2: It wasn't that long ago where it was like, would you even send him out there?
00:18:56
Speaker 3: So they try a field goal, then there's a penalty, so they end up punting away instead of trying a 63-yarder. I wanted another penalty so he could try a 68-yarder. So my bold prediction that he would break the record this year would come true.
00:19:11
Speaker 2: But, like.
00:19:12
Speaker 3: 68 might be pushing it. But had they tried it from 63, I don't know if that would have fit in the context of the game, which was a field position game.
00:19:21
Speaker 2: I would have been like, all right, let's see. Why not? Why not? I mean, if he had hit it like he hit the 57 or 58 yard, it would have been good. Yeah. Yeah, he's been great. And I think when you're playing stylistically a game like you were playing on Sunday, I mean, Ryan Rico is– A huge part of that. Especially if your defense is playing like it's playing, and you're just consistently forcing the other team to come out from the shadows of their own goalposts. It wears on them, and it did. It wore on them on Sunday on Houston. They had a long way to go, and And, yeah, those things certainly play together. And he's just gotten so much better at that. Again, it falls into the line of so many things we've talked about. We're like, well, you know, the defense, they seem to have put the right pieces, and that should be better. And their tackling should be better because of this. And the offense should be better because they're using under center, and they can do more things here. And Joe should be better at this. And Rico, he's been working on this. All of these things have all come true. Through two weeks. Through two weeks. But they've all played out. Dexter Lawrence should... Man, he should be, if he can get back to that level. If he seems motivated, could change everything. And sure enough, two weeks in, he's changed everything. It's just everything that you were kind of betting on and hoping, maybe in like an 80% range, has come true through two weeks. And that's why I think the Bengals should be feeling so good about where they're at. And yet.
00:21:03
Speaker 3: they still had on Sunday. Effort Jamar's down there somewhere in their bag.
00:21:09
Speaker 2: They always have that. It's the best part is that they can always, if things are clunky, if things are rough, if they're making mistakes, if there's just something happening with pass rush, you can always just spam the T and Jamar buttons. And you can just Throwback shoulders, the tee, you can just throw it up to Jamar. You can do all of these things, and they'll make plays for you. When you can do that, you just have a button that no one else in the NFL has access to. That's why people tweet things like, uh-oh, Cincinnati has a defense, because you can always win. You can win when everything is not going your way, but you have a defense, and you can hit the tee and Jamar button. That's enough to win against almost anybody in the league.
00:21:57
Speaker 3: It's 3.31. We're at the Newport Carnegie Hall in downtown Newport, just off the river.
00:22:05
Speaker 2: Our buddy Paul Danner Jr.
00:22:06
Speaker 3: From The Athletic and The Growler Podcast is where the sports headlines are coming up. And then we'll talk about Orlando Brown on ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:22:17
Speaker 7: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530.
00:22:20
Speaker 2: Traffic. Station. Line for a service at Kelsey Chevrolet.
00:22:24
Speaker 3: Home of Lifetime, powertrain protection, and guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours. For life, KelseyChev.com. Off day for the Bengals. Any Bengals news today?
00:22:33
Speaker 2: Anything significant? Anything big?
00:22:35
Speaker 6: No?
00:22:36
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:22:37
Speaker 3: They will take on the Steelers in Pittsburgh Sunday at 1. The game is live on ESPN 1530. Meanwhile, because baseball's rules say every team has to play 162 games, Reds play the Braves tonight in Atlanta. Brandon Williamson will be opposed by J.R.
00:22:51
Speaker 2: Ritchie.
00:22:52
Speaker 3: 7-10, 7-15, actually, tonight's first pitch on 700 WLW. The Reds have brought Connor Phillips back up from AAA, and they have placed Tony Santeon on the injured list with a left hip labral tear. That sounds painful. I forgot that Connor Phillips was a part of the organization. Anyway, go listen to the game tonight. See if they can avoid losing 90 games.
00:23:16
Speaker 2: I remember a time when Connor Phillips was like the centerpiece.
00:23:19
Speaker 8: Yes.
00:23:19
Speaker 2: Of the bullpen plant.
00:23:21
Speaker 3: A year ago at this time, he was awesome. He was the star of what was happening.
00:23:24
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:23:25
Speaker 3: And then the season started. He could stop walking, guys. And then he got banished. But now he's back.
00:23:32
Speaker 2: Have we gotten the final, the current number of walks with the bases loaded by the Reds? That number was so crazy at one point. And I'm sure it's still far and away lapping the rest of Major League Baseball. But that's like one of those, wouldn't you? What do you remember most about a season? If you ask me in 10 years, I'll be like, oh, yeah, that's the years that they had, like, you know, whatever, 35 walks with the bases loaded.
00:23:57
Speaker 3: I feel like the pace has slowed in large part because now when they allow guys to get on base, like, dudes just hit home runs.
00:24:06
Speaker 2: So we don't really get to. They're not walking them? Yeah, it's great.
00:24:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, so instead of scoring one at a time, they just score three at a time.
00:24:13
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:24:13
Speaker 3: When you were a kid, did you read the Highlights magazine?
00:24:16
Speaker 8: Absolutely.
00:24:17
Speaker 2: My kids still get it. Do they really? Yeah.
00:24:19
Speaker 3: Do they still have Goofus and Gallant?
00:24:22
Speaker 2: Oh, I remember Goofus and Gallant.
00:24:23
Speaker 8: Yeah.
00:24:23
Speaker 3: That's Orlando Brown and Amarius Mims. Amarius Mims is awesome.
00:24:29
Speaker 2: Amarius Mims is awesome. He is awesome.
00:24:31
Speaker 3: He has been like everything you could want a tackle to be and more for the first two games. He is, for those who are uninitiated.
00:24:39
Speaker 2: He's Gallant. He's Gallant.
00:24:41
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:24:41
Speaker 2: Goofus on the other side.
00:24:42
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:24:43
Speaker 2: Orlando Brown. Do you want me to take it from there? Yeah, go ahead. What should I do with this? I can tell you. I have a very well-formed thought on this. Orlando Brown is the 17th highest paid left tackle in the NFL. I think that's probably proper with probably a couple guys that are on rookie contracts that are better than him. I think he is a starting level below average amongst those 32 left tackle. Will Anderson is the top paid edge rusher in the NFL, and Daniil Hunter is number five. For good reason, they live up to it. When you have an average to maybe below average starting left tackle against an elite edge rusher, it's going to look something like that sometimes. When that's happening this year, he needs help. They've got to give him help. They have to have people over there. They have to be chipping. Maybe in the past, it has been, we can leave our tackles on an island here and they can handle it. That's not the current situation. I think that is the lesson that was learned Sunday. And Zach Taylor has talked about this often over the years, about they feel like they can scheme around tackles. Now, normally, we were talking about the carousel of clowns that was happening at right tackle over the course of the years. But now, I think you're, And I'm not saying that Orlando's on that level. It's not. But it's the same idea. You have to be more cognizant. If Samaje Pirine or Chase Brown are in the backfield or Drew Sample's standing there next to Joe Burrow, don't even look to your right. You don't need to scan that way. Keep your eyes on the left tackle and get out there. Add chips into the routes more often. They know how to scheme around. if they feel like they're losing out there. And in fact, they did it fairly effectively once they got into the second half, recognize what was happening. I think that's the lesson that come out of it. I think you can deal with it. And I think when they go against a team that has average starting level edges, I think Orlando will be fine. I think he can hang in there. There is certainly concerned over what you've seen. And we've been talking about it throughout from through the end of last year to camp, to the Eric O'Neill incident, to, Now this. It's growing. But I don't think it's something that is debilitating at this point. And you have to recognize what you have a little bit more. And Orlando can get you through this. You just got to help him. You just have to recognize that you're going to have to scheme it up a little bit more on that side. Okay.
00:27:30
Speaker 6: I know.
00:27:31
Speaker 2: I'm not... And that's going to take away from some of the things you want to do. It is.
00:27:36
Speaker 3: It doesn't, I guess, dramatically shrink their playbook, but it does shrink it. If it's now we've got to figure out a way to put training wheels on this guy over here, it's seemingly fewer things you're able to do with the personnel you have.
00:27:52
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:27:53
Speaker 2: I mean, we're probably going to have to talk to Dante Myers about how to chip a little bit. or guys, and that's fine, man, if you can add that. It's the advantage of having Jamar and T is you can take the other guy, you can take whoever your third person is, you can line Eric Hall up over there, you can have Andre be a little bit tighter and maybe his route comes off a little slower. You're probably not targeting him anyway. When you've got those other guys you know you're targeting, they can still get out for free. You're not going to ask them to do that stuff, but you have enough at your disposal, I think, that you can make it work. It hasn't been... They don't have another option is the thing. It'd be different. This would be a totally different conversation if they would have done stuff that we had talked about. Like maybe they use their second or third round pick on, on a tackle. And you'd be like, when is it time for this? Well, there's no, when is it time for Javon Foster? Okay. That's, that's not coming right now. And in fact, the moment when Amarius shoe exploded, like Zion Williamson, uh, I think that was maybe the scariest moment of the game. Forget Joe Burrow getting hit in the back. That was the scariest moment because they came out there on third and long with Javon Foster at right tackle and Orlando, who'd been having a tough day at left tackle. And to their credit, converted. But like, that is what you have to be thinking about is it can get worse in a hurry.
00:29:21
Speaker 3: How, if at all, eye-opening is it, how good Amarius Mims has been?
00:29:27
Speaker 2: I don't, I mean, I think it's just an, An extension of who he became at the end of last year. I think he's figured it out. I think he figured it out and that was apparent last year. but like, so eyeopening, I don't know. I just think it's, this was always his potential.
00:29:46
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:29:46
Speaker 2: I mean, built and moving like that every, when he was drafted, it was like, well, he'd be a top five guy if he played more. And if he lives up to his, his athleticism, he could be the best in the game. No, Nobody in the scouting community shied away from that concept. It was just, will he become that? And he's become that. He knows what he's doing. He's smart. He sees it. He's intelligent. He knows how to pass off and when to do something, what guys are trying to do. It doesn't matter who you are. When you watch the cut-up of the one-on-ones that he had against those two dudes, they're just He knows when to run them all the way around the top. He knows when to just hold on the bowl. He knows when to try to hold on the bowl and watch his shoe explode. He just does it. When he knows what you're doing, when he gets you, it's over. It's over. There's no winning for that guy. He's been outstanding. If people keep paying attention, I think you're all pro things very much in play.
00:30:46
Speaker 3: Where should the level of concern be with the fact that we're two games in and we're just, we're still talking a lot about Joe Burrow's body parts.
00:30:58
Speaker 2: Back. I mean, yeah, some, I don't know. I don't think it's a huge, I'm not, I think after seeing what he took on Sunday, considering it was his first game with this back rib, whatever it is. Um, issue, considering that that's the case, and we saw him take those big hits, ten of them, five sacks, whatever, and play the way he played and still be able to move the way he moved and make the throws that we saw him make, I'm not super concerned with it. I expect we'll probably see him be limited for a little while, and I wonder how long that will go on as an indication of how he's feeling, but if this is just whatever this is, and and he can play that way through it, I think they're just fine. Yeah, he did move very well.
00:31:50
Speaker 3: I mean, he was vintage Joe in that regard.
00:31:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I wonder, you know, I mean, I don't know. He didn't really have to uncork many deep shots. I mean, the one was really the Jamar ball that was really high and kind of hung up there, so I don't... We'll see, I guess, will they have more opportunities for that if that looks the same? He's got the same distance and velo and spin on those. But for now, I mean, if that's Joe... you know, I think you're okay. Yeah.
00:32:18
Speaker 3: I said this to you on your pod this morning, and I'll bring it up here because I had it planned. I mean, Jamar Chase makes this insane catch, which if there's another better catch in the NFL this year, I can't wait to see it. Meanwhile, there's T. Higgins converting third downs, moving the chains, quietly going about his job. No highlight reel stuff. Nobody after the game was like, going on and on about a catch that T. Higgins made, but he was uber important in that game. And by the way, he got some of that attention for the catch he made on third down against the Bucs. I said this to you on your pod, but I love that dude. Because you have to know, I'm going to be overshadowed at a position where guys don't want to be overshadowed. And he played a really good game, an important game. Nobody cares. Nobody talks about it. Because Jamar does the otherworldly. And what I love about T is at least publicly, he's very content with that. That's not that common at that position.
00:33:21
Speaker 10: No.
00:33:21
Speaker 2: I mean, it's usually the biggest problem.
00:33:24
Speaker 4: Yes.
00:33:24
Speaker 2: At wide receiver two in the NFL. And I'm not calling. I know he's 1A. We were all put on notice about that. And I don't view him that way. But I just think that that is a common issue is that you want to be the man. You want to be seen when people talk about you. You want to get the coverage. That's the deal. Him and Jamar. Jamar, I think, has the same amount of lacking ego and unselfishness, I think, in a lot of ways. Two passes the first game. And he showed that during the week last week. You know what I mean? I think he showed that growth, and there's plenty of times where he hasn't. But I think it comes from a place of just wanting to win and not of, I need my numbers. It's never been about that for either of those guys, even though they've gotten plenty of numbers.
00:34:11
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:34:12
Speaker 2: And I think what you're talking about is why I think the T chant hits so hard. Is because real Bengals fans love T for that and try to show him something. You know what's funny is at that game in person, I don't know how much it came over on the TV copy, but when T made his first catch, man, there was a lot of loud Ts. And it was the moment you said, oh, there's a ton of Bengals fans that travel to this game because That's how you know. You hear that sound when he makes the catch. It's how you know how many Bengals fans are there. And it was like– it made us all kind of look at each other like, wow, there's a lot of Bengals fans here because you really heard that. And I think that's because they always want to make sure T knows that he deserves– The love and the fans clearly have that for him, and I think a lot of it is because of what you're talking about. I wasn't at the stadium, obviously.
00:35:05
Speaker 3: I was at an establishment in Fort Wright, Dickman's, and I didn't hear what the announcers were doing. I didn't hear the chants of T in the stands because I heard them throughout the bar.
00:35:15
Speaker 2: It's just something everybody does. It's what you do. It's instinctive. That's what everybody does.
00:35:20
Speaker 3: I love that dude, and I know I've talked about this with you before, like, He has paid a lot of money. And so, like, everything's relative. But I'll sign up to be the second banana. Like, just doesn't happen, man.
00:35:36
Speaker 2: No.
00:35:36
Speaker 3: And so, like, man, Jamar's catch was absurd. He is a remarkable football player. But, like, there's T just moving the sticks.
00:35:45
Speaker 2: And making, like, remarkable plays in his own right. Like, that back shoulder third down was a massive play in the game and an insanely difficult one. to pull off, and he sort of does it in a very matter-of-fact way, and it just goes about his business. So, I mean, that's just it. When you got both of them and you got Joe, there's just no way that anybody can really, truly slow it down or know the thing that they can stop it because there's just an unstoppable nature to the two of them generally.
00:36:19
Speaker 3: There's also something about the difficulty in preparing for them where in game one, Mike Kosicki is awesome. And in game two, you don't notice them. And the Texans, I think, played the way they did defensively against the Bengals as a response to what Mike Gesicki did. And then it's like, cool. I don't know that they took him away, but to me, it was just a demonstration of an offense that can beat you in a number of different ways.
00:36:42
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it was the exact opposite in terms of distribution. I mean, they were just very T and Jamar heavy in this game.
00:36:50
Speaker 3: Sort of had a sense that was going to be the case.
00:36:51
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but then in the previous game, you know, it was distributed what nine different receivers had receptions and, and, and Gesicki has the big day and Dante Myers and Samaj P Ryan. It's just, and that's, you know, it's part of it. It's obviously the beauty of Joe Burrow is that he'll just, he'll take what's there. And if he sees Jamar T even there a little bit, he's going to always take them. But like, The idea is if you're specifically– such a big storyline of last year and the last couple of years now has been just teams going to this double-double thing on the two of them and challenging the Bengals to have another guy that can beat them. And I think when week one shows you what it shows you, that those guys can beat you, maybe it limits your ability to go do that. And if Joe sees that you're not doing that, we know where the ball goes. And I think– and so now– The defensive coordinators have to pick what they want to do, and Joe's going to pick which way he probably wants to try to beat you that day. And that's why it's going to be fascinating to see what evolves against this because they just have– they do. They have a lot of answers. They have a lot of tools in the belt, and we'll see where it goes next. As a kid, I identified with Goofus. You did? Yeah. I see. Well, I certainly wasn't a gallant. I can tell you that much. But it's good. Good for you.
00:38:09
Speaker 3: Thanks very much. I will occasionally find myself in a waiting room with my daughter. And if they have highlights, I will grab it, see what Goofus and Gallant.
00:38:19
Speaker 2: Are up to. I was a picture pages guy. Oh, yeah.
00:38:22
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:38:23
Speaker 2: I mean, remember Picture Pages? The pen that made noise. Yeah, of course. That was a big one. That was a big one. I was always a big Picture Pages guy. Yeah. We do the search now. You've got to find all the items in there. Yeah, yeah. As you get to the next level up, they get a little harder than they should be.
00:38:38
Speaker 3: My sister-in-law got my daughter a book, and it's Find Crosley, and you have to find Crosley. It's much younger, but you have to find her in this collage.
00:38:47
Speaker 2: Like, where's Waldo?
00:38:48
Speaker 3: And we're still stuck on the last one.
00:38:51
Speaker 2: It's been years. I have no idea. Did we remember to put the picture in there?
00:38:57
Speaker 3: We both have looked at each other like, go play checkers or something.
00:39:01
Speaker 2: This is stupid.
00:39:02
Speaker 3: TheAthletic.com, The Growler Podcast, latest episode out.
00:39:07
Speaker 2: Yes. It had me on it. It did. Wow. You did a great job.
00:39:11
Speaker 3: A theme song now.
00:39:12
Speaker 2: You have a great theme song. Yeah. And I've already made sure that the– The photo that we talked about being in next week has already been placed in, so we'll take care of that. All right.
00:39:22
Speaker 3: Go catch the latest installment of the Growler podcast, and we'll talk next week.
00:39:27
Speaker 2: Enjoy Pittsburgh. Looking forward to it.
00:39:28
Speaker 4: Thanks.
00:39:29
Speaker 3: Eight away from four o'clock. Mo Egger here till six. We are broadcasting from Carnegie Hall in Newport on ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:39:40
Speaker 7: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Traffic.
00:39:44
Speaker 11: From the UC Health Traffic Center.
00:39:47
Speaker 2: What's up?
00:39:48
Speaker 6: Good afternoon.
00:39:48
Speaker 3: Mo Legger, ESPN 1530. Thank you so much for listening today. Hopefully you're having an awesome Tuesday afternoon. We are broadcasting from an unbelievable menu. An unbelievable venue. Although, if you have your event here, you could take advantage of an unbelievable menu. We're at Carnegie Hall at Newport. Check out newportcarnegie.com. This venue under the umbrella of the folks at Delightmore. Last week, we were at Mercantile Immersive, which is going to have an awesome Bengals game day watch party. This Sunday, GA tickets, 50 bucks. That will include your food and non-alcoholic beverages, unlimited. Premium tickets at 70 bucks include downtown parking. There will be a full cash bar available all game long. Doors open at noon. Game starts at 1 o'clock. This isn't just watching the game on a television. It's being surrounded by the game. It is an unbelievable, unique experience. You can check out mercantileimmersive.com. Specifically, go to mercantileimmersive.com slash tickets. That's this Sunday, Bengals and Steelers. We love that venue. We love the venue that we're at here in Newport. Carnegie Hall. Our sports legal expert, attorney Stuart W. Penrose, in about 30 minutes on a slew, I said a slew, of sports legal topics. Awesome stuff, as always, from our guy Paul Daner Jr. We were talking about Sunday's game, and like, you don't want to say ho-hum. The game certainly had its high points of entertainment, but a 20-6 football game, relatively speaking, isn't going to light the country on fire. It was a business-like performance. It was an efficient performance by the defense. It was an effective enough performance by the Cincinnati offense. And it was a terrific performance yet again by the Bengal special teams units. But, you know, if this team ends up being as good as we hope it is, and as many of us believe it can be, I think there's two things about that game. It's going to go down as maybe one of the more forgettable games. Every win matters, and When you go to Houston and win on the road as underdogs by two touchdowns, that's a big deal. But also, I think it's going to be an example of the multiple ways in which the Bengals won games this year. And again, you might not think the Bengals are going to be all that good this season, but I'm a big believer that if you're going to really seriously contend for a championship, yes, you want to have an identity. And yes, you want to have things that you can hang your hat on. And what was so cool about the Jamar Chase catch was it was a reminder that we still have that. And there's lots of different ways we want to play offensively, but we still have that. There are still effing Jamars down there somewhere in their bag, and that was great. But I'm a big believer that if you're going to win a championship in this league, you've got to find ways to win games in a variety of ways. You've got to play complementary football. You've got to have a team that's capable of, you know, one side maybe bailing out the other. Bengals' offense on Sunday wasn't necessarily awful, but early in the game, they wasted... really good field position on three consecutive drives. And yet you didn't feel like the Bengals were not in control of the game. You got to win games in a lot of different ways. You know, if you go back to 2021, when you think of that year, the chances are you do what I do. You think of, you know, 41 points throwing for 575 against the Baltimore Ravens. You think of how they beat the Chiefs in the regular season, that iconic game that Jamar Chase played still. The greatest game I've ever seen a wide receiver play where Joe Burrow and Patrick Mahomes were just in this shootout with each other. They scored 41 that year against the Pittsburgh Steelers in a game that I saw Mike Tomlin quit, punted at midfield with his team down by 24 points. You think of explosiveness, you think of a lot of points, but you know what the biggest win in the regular season I think that year was?
00:43:45
Speaker 2: It was on December 19th.
00:43:47
Speaker 3: Right before Christmas 2021, the Bengals had just lost two consecutive games at home. And the first of those two losses, they kind of got blown out by the Chargers. Now, the game was maybe not as much of a blowout as the final score indicated because the Bengals were driving late. There was a Joe Mixon fumble, but they lost 41-21 to the Chargers. And then the next week, lose a game in overtime, and it was a gut punch of a loss. where Zach Taylor in his second season takes the ball out of Joe Burrow's hands with a chance to win. They lose that game. They fall to seven and six. And a lot of us were looking at the schedule going, okay, they've got to go to Denver, play Baltimore here, play Kansas city here. And that's before they go to Cleveland. Like things were kind of teetering on the brink. Now that Ravens team, they ended up playing and I'm having a lot of guys who didn't play because of COVID, but that Broncos game, they go on the road, And they eke out a 15-10 win. Now, Denver's quarterbacks that day were Teddy Bridgewater and Drew Locke. Bridgewater got hurt in that game. The Bengals' offense was limited to three field goals and a 56-yard touchdown pass from Joe Burrow to Tyler Boyd. In the 2021 season, where the Bengals win 10 games and then three in the postseason, it is probably the game that is forgotten about the most. It is a game that I think was... a little bit of a precursor of what they would have to do in the postseason. And it's an example of a team that might be defined by offensive explosiveness and fireworks and Burrow and Higgins and Chase. And we could put up gaudy passing numbers, but they found a way to win a grinded out type game where the defense had to carry the offense a little bit. They got some elite special teams played that day and they found a way to win on the road. Didn't beat a great quarterback, played two, you know, okay ones at best. But they go on the road and found a way to win 15 to 10. And even in the postseason, if you look at that run in 2021, and God knows I've talked about this a lot, my favorite of those three victories was the Tennessee game where Joe Burrow got sacked, what, 10 times? Never turned the football over. And again, you go back to this past Sunday, great value in never turning the football over. But they had an opportunistic defense. They took advantage of some shaky clock management by Mike Vrabel, but they They found a way to win this real ugly, grimy playoff game on the road against the number one seed in the conference. And it wasn't offensive explosiveness. It was kind of the antithesis of how they played at the very end of the year when they were hanging 41 on Baltimore, hanging 34 on Kansas City. It's maybe not what you would have expected from that team, but you got to win games in a lot of different ways. So what I take away from Sunday is, Look, we can discuss some of the offensive issues they had, especially early in the game. Great value in not turning it over. Great value on good special teams. Great value on winning a field position battle. But to me, great value in winning a game in a way that they haven't been able to win in quite a while. When you think of the Bengals in recent years, you think of a lot of points, and maybe they win with those points. Or sometimes, unfortunately, quite often actually, They lose despite scoring all those points. Can they win a game that's, you know, a little bit more of a field position game? Can they win a game where Burroughs, maybe not at his best? Can they win a game where some of the pass protection issues crop up again? Can they win a game where defensively they just seem to have your number on Sunday against an opponent that I think most of us believe is still going to be pretty good on the road against a Texas team that I think we expected to play with desperation? They won a little bit of a ho-hum game. They won a business-like game. They won a game because of their defense. Joe Burrow was not an accessory. Jamar Chase and Tee Higgins were certainly not accessories, but they weren't the stars of the game. The stars were Dexter Lawrence and Cassius Howe and Boye Mafe and Cedric Johnson, and at times, though he had snaps where he struggled, Dax Hill. And the linebacker's not standing out for all the issues we saw last year. The offense was a little bit more of an accessory. And when you think of the Bengals, it's typically the defense is an accessory. If the Bengals are going to win, they've got to score a ton of points. They've got to outscore you, or hopefully they can blow you out by scoring a bunch of points, but they probably won't because they can't stop anybody on defense. That's not supposed to be the case this year, and that wasn't the case on Sunday. And that, to me at least, is what was best about that game. They showed And it might not have to show it again, but they showed they can win a game that looks and feels and is played different than so many other games that they've won and in many games that they've lost. Can they win with special teams and defense? And on Sunday, the answer was yes. And it has been a while since I think any of us believed, especially on the road, especially against a good team. I think it's been a while since any of us really believed the Bengals could win a game using defense and special teams, playing a field position game, spinning their tires on offense. Money Mac, by the way, looks like a completely loaded weapon. Ryan Rico has gotten, I think, a little bit better at precision punting. Those things don't get a lot of run.
00:49:19
Speaker 2: Like, we don't talk... punting often.
00:49:20
Speaker 3: We talk maybe more about Evan McPherson than we have other kickers. But those things are important, and they help you find a way to win games when your offense is kind of okay. The Bengals' offense on Sunday was kind of okay. T.
00:49:36
Speaker 2: Higgins had a good game.
00:49:37
Speaker 3: Jamar Chase made an unbelievable catch. Chase Brown had some very good runs, and they got some really good offensive line play from everybody not named Orlando Brown, but what defined that game on Sunday was defense and special teams and not turning the football over, and what I think of, how do you win a championship over the course of a season? Gotta demonstrate that you can win a lot of different type of games. Bengals won a different type of game on Sunday. Now, I did talk about Orlando Brown, and Orlando Brown's cool because he comes to Cincinnati and it feels like he kind of wrapped his arms around the city. You've seen him and heard him a lot of places. He's had a very good career. If Orlando Brown is your worst offensive lineman, there's a very good chance your offensive line is really good. I've said this about baseball players, guys we talk about who bat 7th and 8th and 9th. You know, years ago, Zach Cozart was going through a slump. And I say this at the risk of like getting yelled at on Twitter by Zach Cozart, because I guess he yells at a lot of people on Twitter. But years ago, Zach Cozart was going through it and a bad few weeks. And I'm getting phone calls about Zach Cozart. And I go like, I don't know, man, like if the eighth place hitter is who we're complaining about, then the rest of the team must be pretty good. This is back when pitchers still batted. And there was something to that, right? Like we're complaining about the eighth place guy. which means everything else must be fixed. The top seven guys in the order must be raking, but also like your eighth place hitter, like his floor is going to be lower than everybody else's. So Orlando Brown is the subject of our gripe right now, in large part because there's not that much else to gripe about. Not really on the offensive line. Reisner had some bad snaps on Sunday, but for the most part, you got four guys who are playing at a pretty good level. Marius Mims is playing at an all pro level. Defense looks dominant. Offense, we know what its capability is, and they've had their moments here in the first two games. But Orlando Brown stood out on Sunday for not being very good. And so, number one, the fact that we're talking about one dude so much does tell you everybody else is doing their job. Also, if you subscribe to the belief, and Paul just talked about this with us last hour, if you subscribe to the belief that Orlando Brown at this stage in his career is a slightly to below or maybe even very below average offensive lineman, then chances are his floor is lower than that of anybody else in the unit. And it is one thing to talk about Orlando.
00:52:14
Speaker 5: Brown, you know, for an isolated incident or for an isolated game, but this is a guy that we keep.
00:52:25
Speaker 3: Talking about, right? Like at the end of the season last year, Bengals offensive line was playing at a pretty high level. But Orlando Brown stood out amid all those other offensive linemen because we saw him get beat, saw him get knocked on his rear end, saw him get beat off the edge. And there were times last year where you felt like, God, Orlando Brown.
00:52:47
Speaker 2: It's true.
00:52:48
Speaker 3: His best football is really behind him. And then there was the preseason game where a guy named Eric O'Neal beat him off the edge, actually beat him kind of to the inside and gets to Joe Burrow. And, you know, you could kind of go, okay, well, you know, veteran offensive linemen who know they've made the team, maybe they're not giving it their all compared to the guy they're trying to block. Even established NFL starters have bad moments against players who are lower on the depth chart. It was a bad rep, not that big of a deal. But then there was Sunday's game and it wasn't just one play like Orlando Brown wasn't good. And so like, this is now a thing. It's like, if you're late to work once, it's not a thing. Like, okay, you were late to work. No big deal. It happens.
00:53:35
Speaker 2: Don't let it happen again.
00:53:36
Speaker 3: It happens a second time.
00:53:37
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:53:38
Speaker 3: Maybe it's not a thing, but more of a thing than when it happened the first time. Like by the third time, it's like, dude, you're late to work all the time. That's how, that's, that's how it works. Like, it's not, you're late to work 50 times before we say you're late to work all the time. It's like three times, at least how it works in a normal business. Not that I've ever really worked for a normal business. With Orlando Brown, in a relatively short amount of time, whether it's his performances toward the end of the season last year, the moment in the game against the Lions in the preseason, or Sunday's game, we're now spending a lot of time talking about Orlando Brown's performances. And not just once, not just twice, now multiple times. This is now a thing. Now, what is that going to mean for him and the team? He's not getting benched. They have nobody behind him. Fair to wonder who the left tackle is going to be in 2027. But if now it's we've got to design offensive plays around helping Orlando Brown, whether that's having somebody chip, whether that's putting Drew Sample next to him, Eric All, a wide receiver, a running back, whoever it is, that, to me at least, would at least cut into the playbook just a little bit. And so you could talk about it from that standpoint. Does that kind of inhibit what they're doing offensively because they've got to sort of revolve how they play around making sure Orlando Brown's not exposed?
00:55:03
Speaker 2: But also, this is the second game of the season.
00:55:06
Speaker 3: His years-long regression from a pro football focus perspective goes back to 2022. If in week two we're already talking about, gee, Orlando Brown's having a hard time blocking anybody, What is that going to mean for Joe? What is that going to mean for the offense? What is that going to mean for Joe's health? What are we going to be saying about him after five games or 10 games or 15 games? Like this has gone from like, all right, a handful of moments that Orlando did something on the field that made you cringe to now you're watching him, at least I am, with a whole lot of unease. This is now a thing. What we do about it, what the Bengals do about it, I guess, remains to be seen. Your thoughts are always welcome. 513-749-1530, 866-702-3776. 20 after 4 o'clock. We'll throw out a poll question on Twitter here in just a bit. Thanks to Delta Dental. Delta Dental is building healthy, smart, vibrant communities for all. Go to deltadentaloh.com. Brenneman and Jones on baseball is just about 30 minutes away.
00:56:11
Speaker 2: Speaking of baseball... And we didn't get a chance.
00:56:14
Speaker 3: To spend that much time on this yesterday because yesterday was a football show. But Barry Larkin sounds off on the Reds demanding change. I have a question. I'll ask it when we come back. To Carnegie Hall in Newport on ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:56:31
Speaker 7: Cincinnati.
00:56:33
Speaker 2: WCKY Cincinnati. An iHeartRadio station. Guaranteed human. ESPN 1530. iHeartRadio.
00:56:44
Speaker 12: This is Football in the Natty, brought to you by Modern Office Methods on ESPN 1530, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.
00:56:55
Speaker 3: Six after four, this is ESPN 1530. Scott Satterfield talked earlier today. We'll hear that in the 5 o'clock hour as well. We'll do some stuff on the Barry Larkin comments for the postgame show on Sunday. A little bit later on, Reds do play the Braves tonight. Six more games to go in what has been Quite frankly, Sal Stewart, Chase Burns, and Ellie De La Cruz aside, a thoroughly miserable season. But we have folks waiting. And I don't want to make everybody wait. So we'll get to them in the order that we got them. Dave, you're on ESPN 1530.
00:57:25
Speaker 2: Dave, good afternoon.
00:57:26
Speaker 3: How are you?
00:57:27
Speaker 6: So great, Mo. Nothing brings the mood up like when your team is full of optimism and hope. And I'm right there with you.
00:57:39
Speaker 4: It's fun.
00:57:40
Speaker 6: Um, so one thing, uh, I thought you did such a great job, you know, last few weeks, uh, you know, articulating that, that balance of incredible hope and optimism with fear and terror and what, you know, of the, of all the things that happened to us. And I, as someone who's watched way too many movies, I think of movie scenarios. So I was thinking of, um, if you can picture this bangle season as the death star, except not evil, uh, making a lot of people very happy. Duke Tobin, who we could actually talk about as NFL Executive of the Year, except for that one little port entry, which is Orlando Brown.
00:58:21
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:58:22
Speaker 6: So, you know, and we saw that he was flipping a little bit last year, so to not account for that, I mean, they did run through a training camp, but to not, to reward him with a two-year contract, I mean, first of all, is that guaranteed? And then the other thing I'm thinking about, is with all these, uh, quarterbacks going down, is there any trade value to say, uh, Josh Johnson, that's the same, are a really good backup in the, in the training camp, Josh Johnson, or, or do we just roll with them? Hope they make the adjustments because, you know, all it takes is one guy stepping through and hitting Joe the wrong way.
00:58:59
Speaker 4: And the season's over.
00:59:00
Speaker 6: Although, um, uh, Flacco did win a Superbowl with a stout defense.
00:59:05
Speaker 3: He did. I, uh, I don't want to take my chances with that. I, you know, do think it would be interesting if, given the fact that through two weeks we've had so much quarterback carnage and reading today that the Jackson dart injury is maybe a little bit more severe than they anticipated last night, I don't think the Bengals would trade Joe Flacco. I wouldn't trade Joe Flacco. But would somebody want a reliable guy like Josh Johnson to give the Bengals something for it?
00:59:32
Speaker 2: I would imagine.
00:59:33
Speaker 3: That's the sort of thing that if you're Duke Tobin, you would be interested in talking with teams about.
00:59:39
Speaker 2: You're right.
00:59:41
Speaker 3: Duke checks so many boxes this offseason. There were a handful of others that we talked about. Now, so far, it looks like their approach at linebacker has been the right one. Jalen Davis has been tested a lot at slot corner, and so far, he's held up okay. But we also talked a lot about another tackle. Whether it's a guy they draft early and groom, but you're comfortable with playing early, or finding somebody in free agency who's an upgrade from the backups they have right now, they just didn't do it. And so, I think you're right. A part of the Orlando Brown conversation is he's not going anywhere. The leash is really long because you don't trust anybody behind him. And he's under contract for two more years. Yeah, that's the part to me. It's like, you know, right now we're all uber-focused on this year. Hopefully Orlando plays better. But what are they going to do at that position in 2027?
01:00:41
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I think we can keep our fingers crossed that those two guys on the end that he faced last week would do that to anyone possibly. But still, you're right. I mean, the risk is so much.
01:00:56
Speaker 3: It is, and it's like, all right, you know, Will Anderson and Daniil Hunter are both highly paid and really, really good. The Pittsburgh Steelers, for all of their issues, still have T.J.
01:01:07
Speaker 5: Watt.
01:01:07
Speaker 3: They still have Nick Herbig.
01:01:08
Speaker 2: They've applied.
01:01:10
Speaker 3: I don't think many teams in the first two weeks have applied more pressures per opposing pass attempt than the Steelers have. Like, and like at the end of the season last year, when we were, you saw these snapshots of Orlando Brown amid otherwise really good offensive line play to the best of my recollection, those snapshots, you know, it wasn't like he was trying to block guys who are as good as Will Anderson. Then there was the thing in the Lions game in the preseason. Like it's, He's become a deficiency. The only way he changes that is by playing better, but the more you see him not, the more you wonder if he ever will.
01:01:48
Speaker 8: All right.
01:01:49
Speaker 6: Oh, and one last thing, though. I'm out in Oregon, and we have a few Mo Egger enjoyers here, and we call ourselves simply the Moradonians.
01:02:01
Speaker 3: So there's more than you who listens to this show in Oregon?
01:02:06
Speaker 6: Absolutely.
01:02:06
Speaker 4: Wow.
01:02:07
Speaker 2: All right.
01:02:08
Speaker 3: Are we Ducks fans or Beavers fans?
01:02:13
Speaker 6: I'd say Beavers. The Ducks fans are awfully obnoxious, and all I do is give them hell because of the 3,000 fans who showed up for the Peach Bowl last year. You know, I thought that was embarrassing.
01:02:25
Speaker 4: All right, all right.
01:02:27
Speaker 6: We have actually a lot of Bengals fans out here because of TJ and Chad being Beavers.
01:02:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. No, that's true. Both in the 2001 draft.
01:02:37
Speaker 3: It's funny because UC played in Corvallis in 2009, and I met a couple who were Bengals fans for that reason. And this is 17 years ago now, have at that point had yet to even go to Cincinnati. So, all right, well, we'll take it. I appreciate the phone call, man.
01:02:51
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.
01:02:51
Speaker 6: Mo, one last thing.
01:02:52
Speaker 2: Yes.
01:02:54
Speaker 6: So, I just have never felt so happy about a fall, an autumn, mainly because of these Bengals. But I got to say, and hopefully you'll talk about it a little more, The UC basketball season and this coach that we got, oh my gosh. I'm an alum there, so no matter what happens with football, I'm prepared for disappointment. But we got the guy. All right, thank you both.
01:03:20
Speaker 3: I agree, Dave. I think they've got the guy as well. We've got the guy, our sports legal expert, Attorney Stewart W. Penrose, next.
01:03:29
Speaker 12: You've been listening to Football in the Natty, brought to you by Kingdom Built Exteriors on ESPN 1530, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.
01:03:41
Speaker 7: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Traffic.
01:03:46
Speaker 11: From the UC Health Traffic Center, blood cancer patients deserve every option under one roof. Find the region's experts at the University of Cincinnati Cancer Center. Call 513-585-UCCC.
01:03:59
Speaker 7: We have the station. ESPN 1530.
01:04:03
Speaker 3: We've got more of your phone calls coming up, plus Brenneman and Jones on baseball. You'll hear Scott Satterfield in the 5 o'clock hour. We'll spend a few minutes on the Barry Larkin comments as well, and plenty more on the Bengals, because it seems like a lot of you have something you want to say about Orlando Brown. On Tuesdays, we chat with our sports legal analyst, attorney Stuart W. Penrose from the Manilo Law Group. And there's actually some pretty interesting cases that are adjacent to sports to talk about what's going on.
01:04:36
Speaker 8: Just living life, Mo, seeing what's going on in the sports legal world and keeping my head above water just like everybody else. How about you?
01:04:43
Speaker 3: The exact same. The exact same. So there's a couple of cases I want to ask you about. One of them involves former Cleveland Guardians closer Emmanuel Classe.
01:04:53
Speaker 2: So his trial.
01:04:54
Speaker 3: Is set for November. He is accused of sharing advanced information about pitches he was going to throw with bettors who then allegedly placed wagers on the result and velocity of the pitches. So prosecutors have identified 18 pitches, including one from a playoff game, that they're going to focus on. And I guess my first reaction was, well, a missed pitch, whether it's a ball, whether it's a pitch that isn't thrown as hard as the pitcher would like, that's kind of a part of the game. Can the defense simply say, look, a ball outside the strike zone or a ball that's not thrown as hard as the pitcher would like, those things are just part of baseball.
01:05:30
Speaker 8: I mean, you would certainly think that that's going to be a focal part of their defense, Mo. You know, I hope this case goes to trial just for the simple fact that it's interesting, you know, and I'd want to see what their defense is. I'd want to see what evidence the government has against him and how a jury would rule on it. But, yes, I mean, baseball is a game of failure. I mean, if you, you know, get a base hit three times and every ten times you go up and that's your career, you're probably going to the Hall of Fame. So, yeah, you would think that would be a focal part of his defense here.
01:06:00
Speaker 3: So, like, I watch hitters all the time. They get mad when a pitcher brushes them back or hits them. And then there's always this, like, you know, well, does the hitter really know that the pitcher was trying to hit him or not? If baseball players can't determine intent, how is intent of a ball being thrown out of the strike zone or not being thrown as fast, how can they prove intent in court?
01:06:23
Speaker 8: Well, the government's got a heavy burden. They've got to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. And you can't analyze his brain to see what his intent was. But, you know, certainly they're going to the first thing is you think there has to be some sort of communications with Emanuel and, you know, whomever he's supposedly working with. You know, what does he say in these communications? What communications tie those 18 pitches together? You know, they're also not saying it's one or two pitches. They're saying it's 18 pitches. Are they going to be able to establish some sort of pattern here with those pitches? It's going to be really interesting to see that. Certainly the timing of various betting, who was betting and, you know, what communications tie that, you know, with Emmanuel. That's how they would get them here is, you know, what circumstantial evidence and direct communications do they have?
01:07:12
Speaker 3: I want to ask you about Keenan Allen, the longtime Charger, is now with the Indianapolis Colts. He's played in Indy's first two games despite his recent arrest for DUI, and now the original misdemeanor charge has been upgraded because his blood alcohol level when he was arrested exceeded.
01:07:30
Speaker 2: 15, and not by.
01:07:32
Speaker 3: A little either,. 224. And so I guess my question is, how does that high a BAC level impair the defense's ability to reach a plea and make this go away for Keenan Allen and the Colts?
01:07:48
Speaker 8: Well,. 224 is a triple the legal limit in most areas. We're. 08 here in Ohio, so sounds like Mr. Allen had a good night before getting arrested, at least. Yeah, it certainly makes negotiating his charges more difficult sometimes. um, cause it's a higher level of culpability, which is why it was, um, increased here. Um, does it do his lawyers have an ability to, you know, challenge the probable cause of the stop?
01:08:15
Speaker 6: Perhaps you would think that.
01:08:17
Speaker 8: Would be the first thing they're going to look into is, you know, whether they can get this thrown out on, you know, perhaps an impermissible stop, but you know, most cases get negotiated all the time. And, you know, if he's somebody with little to no record, you would think there'd be some room for some negotiation, but, um, Yes. I mean, assuming the stop was permissible, the government's got a lot more leverage of him because he blew three times the legal limit. So his ability to.
01:08:43
Speaker 4: Get a deal may not be out the window.
01:08:45
Speaker 8: What that deal may be is likely very different than it would be if it were just a lower-level DUI.
01:08:51
Speaker 3: He is facing a suspension by the NFL, but he has played in the Colts' first two games. The arrest occurred before the season started. Is Is there a legal reasoning for allowing him to play while this case kind of hangs in the balance?
01:09:06
Speaker 8: My first thought on that, Mo, is just look at what the content is. You know, it's not the same thing as a Ray Rice or, you know, a Josh Jacobs, what he has going on. You know, I'm not saying a DUI is not a serious charge. It is, especially when you're three times, you know, the legal limit, allegedly. But we're not talking domestic violence. We're not talking Aaron Hernandez or anything like that here. Doesn't sound like he caused a car accident or injured anybody, thank God. My first thought is perhaps they're looking at the conduct and gives them more of a pause to see how things play out in court than if this were an act of violence.
01:09:43
Speaker 2: Attorney Stewart W.
01:09:44
Speaker 3: Penrose from the Manillo Law Group is our sports legal expert. One more I want to ask you about. So the five major sports leagues in this country, the NFL, the NBA, Major League Baseball, the NHL, and Major League Soccer, and their respective players' unions... are calling on state regulators to ban sports bettors, and sports bettors meaning people who use apps, ban sports bettors who harass players, athletes, coaches, officials, and their families.
01:10:14
Speaker 2: I have lots of questions.
01:10:15
Speaker 3: Where does the line sit between protected free speech, like when you go to a game and yell boo or that a player sucks, and something that's a criminal harassment case?
01:10:26
Speaker 2: What is that line?
01:10:29
Speaker 4: Sure.
01:10:29
Speaker 8: I mean, if you want to complain about a player's performance or a bad call or whatnot and post it on the Internet, you know, that's fair game. But, you know, it becomes a criminal element if you're making credible threats of violence, if you're doxing someone or if there's repeated harassment or you're threatening their family.
01:10:50
Speaker 4: Yes.
01:10:50
Speaker 8: I mean, I think these state commissions are well within their rights to try and ban these people from betting and being part of it.
01:10:59
Speaker 3: So state regulators legally, and I know this varies maybe state to state, maybe it doesn't, but state regulators can legally force a private business to basically fire its own customers?
01:11:10
Speaker 8: In this circumstance, I think so, depending upon how things are written up. I mean, sportsbooks are in the criminal court, you know, first and foremost. I mean, they're regulated by the state that they're in. You know, DraftKings or FanDuel or whom have you wants to operate in the state of Ohio, they need a license from the Ohio Casino Commission. And they can have certain regulations and things that they have to abide by. And certain states, Ohio included, has the ability to stop people from participating in gambling in Ohio-regulated casinos. And you'd assume that that would include online ones as well. So absolutely, states can do this. Absolutely, to their casino commissions.
01:11:52
Speaker 3: So most people, most, when they... harass an athlete or a coach or an official. They do it not using their name, using a burner account. So what is the legal standard of proof required to link a digital message that somebody doesn't have their name attached to a real person's actual gambling account?
01:12:14
Speaker 8: It's hard to say what the exact standard of proof would be. I mean, if it becomes a criminal issue, which is completely separate from, you know, anything the Casino Commission may have where they would ban someone from betting, you know, if it becomes a criminal issue, yes, it would be a reasonable doubt standard. But, you know, the Casino Commission for, you know, the purpose of banning somebody isn't held to that standard. You know, a burner account, I mean, you can still get, you know, track someone's IP records of their device, right? you know, the email address or the phone numbers that they have it up. So there's still ways to, you know, figure out who the person is or at least get a good idea of it. But no, they're not going to be held to a reasonable doubt, you know, criminal case level standard to ban that person. But, you know, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I'm sure there's going to be challenges to it. And the courts will have to make some rulings and set some precedent here.
01:13:00
Speaker 2: All right.
01:13:01
Speaker 3: If someone needs the hands-on work of our sports legal expert, how do they get a hold of you?
01:13:08
Speaker 8: They call us at the Manila Law Group, Moe, at 513-723-1600. Auto accidents, that's what I do for a living. DUIs, bankruptcies, give us a call, 513-723-1600. If it's their fault, it's our fight.
01:13:25
Speaker 2: Need a lawyer?
01:13:26
Speaker 3: Call my guy, Stuart, 513-723-1600. He is our sports legal expert attorney, Stuart W. Penrose from the Manila Law Group.
01:13:35
Speaker 2: You're the man. Thanks so much.
01:13:37
Speaker 8: Thank you, Moe.
01:13:37
Speaker 3: 13 away from five o'clock. We're broadcasting from Carnegie Hall in Newport on Mama Street, an unbelievable venue. I'm trying to come up with a reason to hold a big party. I don't want to throw myself a party, but if there's a big milestone or something coming, I would love to have a party here. This place is unbelievable. My daughter is nine years old, so it's going to be decades before she gets married. But if I had an older daughter, And we needed a venue. This would be it. This place is fantastic. Very easy to get to. And we are certainly thrilled to be broadcasting from here. It's Carnegie Hall in Newport.
01:14:19
Speaker 2: And, boy, check it out.
01:14:20
Speaker 3: NewportCarnegie.com. 12 minutes away from 5 o'clock. Brenneman and Jones on baseball is coming up. More of your phone calls ahead, hopefully, as well, on ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
01:14:31
Speaker 7: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530.
01:14:33
Speaker 6: Traffic.
01:14:36
Speaker 11: From the UC Health Draft.
01:14:37
Speaker 3: This is ESPN 1530. If you missed yesterday's Tony and Mo football show, what were you doing?
01:14:43
Speaker 2: Seriously, what were you doing? What was so important?
01:14:46
Speaker 3: Why'd you miss the show? Like, why would you be listening today and not yesterday? I appreciate you listening today.
01:14:51
Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong.
01:14:52
Speaker 3: If you missed it, the good news is we record all the shows and we put them on the internet and they're accessible on the iHeartRadio app. You can also go to my page at ESPN1530.
01:15:01
Speaker 2: Com.
01:15:03
Speaker 3: Awesome stuff, obviously, on the Bengals game, the UC game, lots of NFL stuff, a Kentucky signature win over Texas A & M. All that and more on the iHeartRadio app. Podcasts of this show are a service of Long Necks Sports Grill. More on the Bengals win. We've got to talk about a guy who is beloved for a lot of different reasons, but one of them stood out this weekend. Plus, if your house is on fire and you're in it, do you need someone to tell you your house is on fire? I'll apply that to the Reds very creatively. But first, Brenneman and Jones on baseball.
01:15:37
Speaker 2: Sketch is a lead athlete.
01:15:38
Speaker 7: That is ESPN 1530.
01:15:40
Speaker 4: Uh-oh.
01:15:40
Speaker 7: Oh, yes.
01:15:41
Speaker 2: Guess what day it is. It's Tuesday. Guess what day it is. It's Taco Tuesday. Taco Tuesday!
01:15:49
Speaker 3: See, it's not, though.
01:15:51
Speaker 2: See, I hate to say this.
01:15:52
Speaker 3: It's not Taco Tuesday. It's not Taco Tuesday. Because I made my meat sauce last night for the week. I... I don't like to brag. I really don't because there's nothing for me to brag about. I'm a man of limited talent, skill, looks. Don't have the great body. I mean, there's just not a lot of there and there. But you know what I am good at? Cooking.
01:16:18
Speaker 2: Meat sauce.
01:16:20
Speaker 3: And so I've been craving my meats, not like some jabroni's meat sauce. By the way, first time I've ever used the word jabroni on the air. So I got home later last night, and I thought, I'm making meat sauce, and I'm going to have it on Tuesday because there's nothing better than meat sauce that's been sitting there for a while. I make the greatest meat sauce ever. Mike, I'll bring you some meat sauce one day. Do a little veal-pork-beef blend. So no tacos tonight, meat sauce.
01:16:48
Speaker 2: But it's a good idea. I like tacos.
01:16:49
Speaker 3: I like tacos for lunch, actually. But meat sauce tonight at the Egger Establishment.
01:16:57
Speaker 2: I'm Mo Egger.
01:16:58
Speaker 3: This is ESPN 1530. Thanks for listening to the show. That's probably the most interesting part of today's show is me talking about meat sauce. We are broadcasting from a really, really cool venue. This is the Carnegie Hall at Newport, and it's on Mama Street, and it's just down the street from the levee. Very easy to get to. It could be a wedding. It could be a big milestone party. It could be like a retirement party for one of your colleagues or Maybe you just want to get together with your friends in a venue that you ran out.
01:17:30
Speaker 2: This is awesome.
01:17:32
Speaker 3: I cannot encourage you enough to go to NewportCarnegie.com and just look at it. We love this place, and it's been really nice to get a chance to spend time here. Carnegie Hall at Newport. This is under the Delightmore umbrella. Our friends at Delightmore also run Mercantile Immersive, and they're having a huge Bengal Steelers watch party on Sunday. Tickets are available for that. And you'll not just watch the game on TV. Like you'll be like, you'll feel like you're at, I was going to say Heinz stadium. It's not Heinz stadium anymore. Heinz field. You're going to feel like you're in Pittsburgh without being what better. You don't have to go to Pittsburgh, but you'll feel like you're there. If you go to the Bengals watch party at mercantile immersive, you can learn more about that at mercantile immersive.com slash tickets. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to take a phone call to start the hour. We are going to spend some time on Barry Larkin and his comments about the Reds and what I thought was the best part of Jamar Chase's catch on Sunday. And the real season now is set to begin for the UC Bearcats and Scott Satterfield. You'll hear from him in just about 25 minutes. But Ron in Milford has been hanging on. Ron, you're on ESPN 1530. Ron, good afternoon.
01:18:47
Speaker 2: How are you?
01:18:47
Speaker 6: I'm okay, man.
01:18:50
Speaker 4: I got a couple quick things on the Bengals. First of all, you know, everyone says how great the defense was, but it seemed more like bend but not break. I mean, they gave up 400-plus yards.
01:19:03
Speaker 3: They gave up six points.
01:19:06
Speaker 4: I know, and that's Lou Anarumo. It's all about the points, which is good, but I'm just concerned in the fact that you're not going to give up 400 yards every week and give up only six points. You know what I mean?
01:19:19
Speaker 2: Yeah.
01:19:20
Speaker 3: What I love most about the defensive performance is when the Bengals had the field position edge early in the game, that defensively they didn't allow Houston to kind of get out from the shadow.
01:19:31
Speaker 2: Of their own. Right.
01:19:33
Speaker 4: They didn't give them any momentum.
01:19:34
Speaker 6: Yeah.
01:19:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I mean, Tampa Bay in the first game, it's not like they didn't move the football. It's not like the Texans. Texans had 10 more first downs in the game. But, you know, you saw a defense that closed. You saw a defense that was better on third down. You saw a defense that accumulated 41 pressures. You saw a defense that got a huge stop on fourth and inches. I walked away from it pretty pleased with how they played.
01:20:06
Speaker 4: The middle-of-the-field Mo's killing us, and, you know, Friar Moose owns the Bengals, I feel like, most of the time, and that's what's just concerning is, like, the middle-of-the-field, like, you know, receivers that Schultz with 144 yards receiving. Now, mind you, they had no other weapons, we know, but middle-of-the-field, too wide open, I feel like.
01:20:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the middle of the field is wide open, and there's a long track record of tight ends having big games against the Bengals, including Friar Muth, who's had, I think he's had a nine-catch game against Cincinnati. He's had an eight-catch game against Cincinnati. He had the catch that would have won the game for Pittsburgh last year, if not for the last second. uh, miracle by, by Joe Flacco and T Higgins and Dalton Schultz. And, you know, you're right without Nico Collins, they were going to focus on him a little bit more because they just simply don't have a ton of weapons. They had no answer for Dalton Schultz. Uh, and that is, that is concerning when you think ahead to Sunday.
01:21:07
Speaker 4: Yeah. And then Mo, I, you know, your boy, you're right.
01:21:11
Speaker 2: Mims.
01:21:12
Speaker 4: I mean, he just owning people, but on the other side, uh, You.
01:21:17
Speaker 8: Know, T.J.
01:21:18
Speaker 4: Watt usually, I feel, lines up against Mims, and Mims would own him, but there's no reason that they're going to do that this week. I feel like T.J. Watt's just going to try to own Orlando Brown, and if not, they got Highsmith, and Highsmith's got two sacks also already. So, I mean, between the two of them, they're going to be lining up, I guess, I feel like a majority of the time against Orlando Brown because, let's face it, I mean, he even admitted he had a bad game.
01:21:47
Speaker 3: Well, the film doesn't lie, and I would be livid if I was a Pittsburgh Steelers fan, and the game starts, and they play a series or two, and T.J. Watt hasn't lined up opposite Orlando Brown. I really, you know, I thought the offensive line as a whole could have had a better game, but the guy, Amarius Mims, was awesome. the guy who stood out was Orlando Brown and it's, it's Alex Highsmith. It's Nick Herbig. You know, it's still Cameron, Cam Hayward up the middle, but yeah, I mean, I, I don't know how, if, if, if you're game planning against the Bengals and you have TJ Watt in your back pocket, I don't know how you watch the tape of Orlando Brown and Amarius Mims and don't figure out a way to put your best guy opposite Cincinnati's weakest guy. And right now it's pretty obvious who that is.
01:22:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Mo, I mean, Gusecki, did he have a target even in this game?
01:22:49
Speaker 3: Don't believe he did.
01:22:53
Speaker 4: If he had one, he had one only. I mean, they need to, like, I would feel like, just based on the Steelers, they're going to try to take some things away. They're not going to be able to take everything away, but, like, you've got to work Gusecki in the gameplay, I feel, some more. And, you know, again.
01:23:12
Speaker 4: Hopefully have Drew Sample over there on the left side to crack on whoever's over there because I just don't feel it, though, with Orlando Brown. I don't know. I know everyone's banging him, but he's banging himself, too. He realizes, and maybe he'll come out better this week because he realized himself that he was terrible.
01:23:32
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I don't know how he could admit or acknowledge anything different. The Kosicki thing is interesting to me because if Joey Porter Jr. doesn't play, then, you know, I'm not going to lie to you. The guy that I'm going to start with isn't the tight end. And Mike Kosicki had a terrific game against Tampa Bay, and Jamar Chase was quiet. Jamar Chase and T. Higgins were a little more productive, and Mike Kosicki was quiet. Jamar Chase had an otherworldly game against Pittsburgh here last year, had a quieter game in the game up there. As much as we all like Mike Gesicki, I don't know that especially if Pittsburgh is without their top cover guy, I don't know that he's the guy that I'm going to try to feed first. I love what they did with Jamar Chase this past Sunday, which was they emphasized him, and I think the way Houston played defense was a response to how good Gesicki was in the first game. And then Cincinnati's response to that was, cool, you took away Mike Gesicki, great work.
01:24:38
Speaker 2: Here's T.
01:24:38
Speaker 3: Higgins continuing to move the chains, and here's Jamar Chase. So that, to me, is the great nature of this offense. There are probably going to be weeks, if they get going, where you look at the box score and go, this guy didn't get targeted. And sometimes that guy's going to be Jamar Chase. Sometimes that guy's going to be Mike Gesicki. And sometimes that guy might be, I don't know, T. Higgins or somebody else. I think the wealth of weapons they have is going to be capable of helping them overcome a quiet game by a guy that you would expect to normally be productive.
01:25:16
Speaker 4: I agree, Mo, and I think they also need to, when they are running the ball effectively, keep running it. I feel like Zach doesn't call games very well, and I think that's part of the problem so far this year is you know, we're not getting any consistency because when something works, we go away from it. I mean, run the ball because that also is going to protect our boy Orlando Brown and most importantly, our most valuable asset, which as we know is Joe Burrow. Run the ball and when it's working, stay with it.
01:25:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, Chase Brown's an eighth in the NFL in carries. I mean, they carried the ball 20 times last week. That's a workable number for me. I think they They had 23 rushing attempts and 31 passes. I'll go with that.
01:26:05
Speaker 2: I think.
01:26:08
Speaker 3: That is on a week-to-week basis an achievable balance. I think over the first two games of the season, they have been relatively committed to the run.
01:26:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess that's why we're working under center more, which makes sense. I say just do what you can to keep Joe upright and healthy and You know, we'll see that the Steelers still have a challenging defense. I don't know that they have much on offense. That's why, you know, I feel like trying to clamp down on the middle of the field is going to be good. And Aaron Rodgers, let's face it, he's old. If we have the same pass rush we've had the last two weeks, we're going to get at least four sacks again, I would say.
01:26:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, he is, and I appreciate the phone call as always, man.
01:26:54
Speaker 2: He's a statue. You know, he can't move.
01:26:58
Speaker 3: And Pittsburgh's offensive line isn't awesome. Boy, if I was a Steelers fan, that's what I would be thinking about most. If Porter doesn't play because he's, quote, hurt, you know, what is that going to mean for Jamar and T? And how do we protect our quarterback who's 42 years old and moves like me? Bengals have 50 rush attempts through the first two games. So that's 25 per. They had 23 in the first game, 27 in the second. They played from ahead in the first game. But if you think of that game against the Buccaneers, what I loved about it was when it was time for them to salt it away, they passed. The balance they're working with right now, I think, is fine. What I loved about the Jamar Chase catch, maybe more than anything, is we've talked so much about them under center. and all the wealth of weapons they have, and running the ball more effectively, as awesome as the catch was, and Jamar Chase is an awesome player, as ridiculous as the catch itself was, to me it was a simple reminder, we still have this in our back pocket. This might not end up being as central to who we are offensively as it was five years ago, But we still have effort. Jamar's down there somewhere. I'll throw it to him. We still have that in our back pocket. So yes, we want to run under center and run the ball more effectively. And we have a lot of different things we could do with all the players we have. But we could still get you downfield because we've got a dude in number one who could do things that very, very few others in the NFL can. It is 18 after five o'clock. All right, we'll spend a few minutes on the Barry Larkin comments that we, because it was a football show yesterday, really didn't get a chance to spend time on. We'll do that next on ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
01:28:57
Speaker 7: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530.
01:29:00
Speaker 8: Traffic.
01:29:01
Speaker 12: Football in the natty. Brought to you in part by Skyline Chili on ESPN 1530. The official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.
01:29:12
Speaker 3: 25 after 5 o'clock. This is ESPN 1530. Bengals-Steelers Sunday at 1. Live on ESPN 1530. Pre-game coverage beginning at 9.05. Joe Burrow will talk tomorrow. We'll have that for you live at 3.15. And maybe he'll update us on his back and his rib.
01:29:30
Speaker 2: His rib. That's an issue now. The rib.
01:29:33
Speaker 3: According to Joe Burrow, mic'd up. Go find that for yourself on the internet. So we did a football show yesterday. It was a show mostly about football, obviously. So we didn't get a chance to spend time on what went viral on Sunday, which was as soon as the Reds game ended, their final home game of the season, they got crushed by the Chicago Cubs. Barry Larkin, the Hall of Famer, does the home TV broadcast with John Sadak, had some pretty pointed comments. I'm going to guess you have heard these already, but for the sake of providing proper context, here's Barry on Sunday.
01:30:13
Speaker 13: Well, John, I think a fitting end to a disappointing season, at least here in Cincinnati. I think all the fans believed that this was going to be a much, much better year I thought they believed that, as did we. We talked this offseason about playoff aspirations, getting back where we were last year.
01:30:36
Speaker 2: And it just never, ever happened.
01:30:39
Speaker 10: I think these last three weeks of baseball, playing against some of the better teams that are going to be going to the postseason, really illustrates how far we are behind at this big league level.
01:30:51
Speaker 14: And change has to happen. This city deserves better. than that and I know every player down there feels that but something has to give we have to get better because we are so so far behind.
01:31:08
Speaker 3: That's Barry Larkin on Reds TV on Sunday and I didn't hear a syllable of that that was inaccurate and like Barry's words carry weight yes because he's a Hall of Famer but also like He watches this up close. He has a role when it comes to player development in the organization during spring training. He's been doing the games for a while. He is also like, this isn't some guy on the radio. This isn't a talk show host like me. This is a guy who is, I think, always been, since he assumed the role of TV analyst now six years ago, measured in his commentary, measured in his criticism, certainly willing to point out things that he sees that he doesn't like or that a Reds player is doing wrong. But in six years, I think this is the first time that I recall him saying something really emphatic. And this is a moment that I think deserves saying something really emphatic because this season represents total failure.
01:32:16
Speaker 2: This season.
01:32:17
Speaker 3: kind of felt like it was going to be the culmination of years of buildup, and it's ended up being a flop. You know, this isn't some hot take artist who just says crazy things.
01:32:27
Speaker 2: Like, there was some thought put behind that.
01:32:30
Speaker 3: And it was a fair assessment, and I also think a direct reflection of how the last few weeks have unfolded, where the Reds have played a lot of games where they have looked like the junior varsity versus the varsity. Like, it wasn't, you know, them losing some tight games or, You know, them getting beaten by, you know, one or two runs to the Pirates or, you know, the Mets or something. It was like measuring stick teams. L.A., Chicago, Milwaukee, like measuring stick teams. Teams the Reds should be trying, at least, to be as good as. So good for him for saying it. And, yeah, like his words carry weight. If another former player says that and no other former player beyond the ones who are on TV and radio have that platform, it's maybe not the same. And then when you have Joey Votto retweeting the audio and sort of putting his stamp of approval on it, well, Joey's words carry some weight for what it's worth. So good for Barry for saying it. Good for Barry for saying it. But Like many have said, well, you know, those are the sort of things that should reverberate in the halls of Great American Ballpark.
01:33:43
Speaker 2: And maybe they will.
01:33:44
Speaker 3: Maybe Barry Larkin offering some very fair and measured commentary about the state of the team and what has to happen next, maybe that triggers change. But if you heard that or you hear it through the prism of, well, this will be what changes things, then things are already broken. Like, if your house is on fire and you're in it, do you need somebody to come tell you your house is on fire? I would like to think the answer is no.
01:34:15
Speaker 2: I wouldn't.
01:34:16
Speaker 3: Hey, my house is on fire. I better do something about it. The Reds have access to standings, right? They have access to the scoreboard. They have access to what their record is. They have access to their attendance totals, which, for what it's worth, attendance on a game-to-game basis... is down by more than 2,000 fans from last year to this year. They have access to all that information. They know how long Nick Kroll has been in his current capacity. They know how long it's been since the Reds won anything of any real consequence. They hear and are aware of the things being said about them by fans who are pissed and who are insanely impatient. They're aware of all these things. I would like to think they are aware of all those things enough to at least do some self-reflection and at the end of it go, you know what, some changes are necessary. I would love to think, as much as I deeply appreciate Barry Larkin, my all-time favorite player, for saying something that is on everybody's mind. for saying something passionately, for saying something that was fair. He didn't take shots at anybody. He didn't make it personal. It was a direct commentary that was reflective of the team's performance this season and over the last couple of weeks. And maybe it will ignite change. But if the Reds needed that in order for them to go, huh, maybe we should do something different then this franchise is more screwed than we already thought. Quite honestly, then it's more screwed than if they needed Barry Larkin to say that on their television network. For them to go, oh, yeah, you know what? Maybe we should do something different. Maybe we shouldn't maintain the status quo. Then what have they been doing this entire time? They have access to scoreboards. They can watch the games. They can see the product. They know the attendance totals. They can feel and hear the vibe. They can listen to talk radio. They can go on social media. They have access to scoreboards. They know what their record is. They know for how long fans have been waiting. They know what their record was last year, which it wasn't that good. They know what their record was two years ago was bad. They know how they failed in 2023 with a team that could have gotten to the postseason, but a guy in charge of the baseball operations who didn't get those extra pieces needed at the deadline. They know how bad they've been for how long. They know how long they've been bad for. They need Barry Larkin to tell them, hey, you guys should probably look at doing something different. If so, then they're in worse shape than most of us already believed. If your house is on fire, if you need somebody to tell your house is on fire, dude, what are you doing? The Reds are on fire. Attendance is down. They're probably not going to lose 90 games, but they could. They're going to finish with something like, I don't know, 87, 88 losses. I have been rooting for this team for a long time. I've been talking about this team for 19 years. I have spent a career listening to exasperated Reds fans. I've never heard anything like this year. And at times, it's crossed over into apathy. Your team is an afterthought in September for what feels like the 50th time over the last 30 years, which is mathematically impossible. You need Barry Larkin to tell you changes are necessary? You should know that based on having watched the team play, having looked at the standings, having watched the team over a long stretch of time. So, yeah, man, good for Barry for saying it.
01:37:48
Speaker 2: Good.
01:37:49
Speaker 3: I nodded along. And his words carry a lot of weight with fans. And sure, his words should reverberate inside the hallways of GABP. But if it takes Barry Larkin saying something on television for them to veer in a different direction, really, then they're more screwed than I think we already thought they were. The problem is, I think we already think they're screwed. We've already heard status quo is going to remain. We've heard status quo is going to be the rule for 2027. And I don't believe that what Barry said is going to pivot them in a different direction.
01:38:29
Speaker 2: I don't know, man.
01:38:30
Speaker 3: I appreciated it. I thought it was great. I wish there was more of it. But if that's what triggers change, okay, be happy that change is going to come. But really, you needed Barry Larkin to be the guy to ignite change, 25 from 6. The UC season really begins on Saturday. Scott Satterfield next.
01:38:50
Speaker 12: You've been listening to Football in the Natty on ESPN 1530, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.
01:39:00
Speaker 7: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Traffic.
01:39:05
Speaker 11: From the UC Health Traffic Center, Blood Kent.
01:39:07
Speaker 3: A question on Twitter, thanks to my friends and yours, hopefully, at United Heartland Insurance. I have no idea what you're paying for insurance. But I do know this, whatever you're paying for insurance, my guys at United Heartland Insurance can help you pay a heck of a lot less and like on pretty much everything that you could need insured, whatever it is. So make sure you check out UHINS.com and see how those folks can help you pay a lot less for insurance. What is your level of concern about the quality of play that Bengals are getting from the left tackle position? Vote now at Mo Egger. Very, some, or none. Right now, 0% have voted none. But the voting is early.
01:39:50
Speaker 2: We will see.
01:39:51
Speaker 3: Vote now at Mo Egger. We've been obviously heavy on the Bengals and a little with the Reds. You see that the battle for the victory bell on Saturday was a tremendously entertaining football game. Now, from a Bearcat perspective, if you were looking at that game through the lens of what does it mean for Big 12 play, probably weren't thrilled with how they played. If you were looking at it through the lens of just make sure you keep the bell well, then I guess a smashing success. I think you could do both as a Bearcat fan. I want UC and Miami to play, and I know they're not going to play every single year, but if there can be a way forward for UC to host Miami on a somewhat regular basis, which Chuck Martin has said, like, dude, you're going to pay somebody to come play, pay us. I would love for that to happen, but in the absence of a game scheduled, nothing against Miami football, nothing against Chuck Martin. Just as a Bearcat fan, I didn't want to lose the last game in the series for a while. So Bearcats hang on to the bell. They did some things defensively in the second half that I thought were very impressive. Cole Tabb was awesome running the football. But now it's Big 12 play. It's a very fun-to-watch quarterback in Avery Johnson. The season now begins for the Bearcats. Nothing against Boston College or Miami. UC was favored to beat both. Obviously heavily favored to beat Western Carolina. Ultimately, what was going to determine how successful the season is is how they do in the Big 12. They're six and a half point dogs against Kansas State. They're going to be underdogs on the road against Arizona. They're going to be underdogs on the road against West Virginia. They're going to be underdogs at home against Texas Tech. They will probably be home favorites against Colorado. We'll see about Iowa State, but that is a road game. Not going to be that many more games where they're laying points. This is one that they have to win, quite frankly. And if they do, then maybe some interest and some buzz starts to snowball a little bit. But I think most fans have been sitting on their hands for the first three weeks just waiting to see two things. A, if they get off to a good start, will things implode in November? And B, what level of competitiveness do they demonstrate in the Big 12? We'll start to find out on Sunday. They need better play from J.C.
01:42:10
Speaker 9: French.
01:42:11
Speaker 3: I think they need a quarterback who's a little bit more willing to let it fly. I know they have recruited him and have coached him to not make a lot of mistakes, but boy, there were times against Miami where it felt like he held onto the ball way too long. Here's Scott Satterfield earlier today talking about how good his team has been so far this season at finishing games.
01:42:35
Speaker 15: Obviously, the goal is to start fast and finish strong. Both halves, but Um, you know, I think in the BC game, we came out pretty good in the first half, you know, um, you're right. The last two games, the second half has been much better. I think, um, you certainly want to finish. We, we talked a lot in the off season about finishing. Um, and you want to finish these games off and, and, and, and the way we have the last two weeks has been, been awesome.
01:43:00
Speaker 2: But, um, yeah, but you got it, but you do have to start better.
01:43:03
Speaker 15: Uh, I think, um, it's not, not something that, that we talk about as far as not, not starting great.
01:43:09
Speaker 4: I mean, we want to start great.
01:43:10
Speaker 15: I mean, But it's just something that coincidence happened last week. You know, they made some great plays. We obviously didn't. And they took advantage of that. I mean, they made some great catches on the sideline, some one-handed catches, some over-the-shoulder catches. I think the quarterback played really good for them. Defensively, they did a great job of, you know, slowing that running game down early in the game. So there's a lot of things they did positive that we didn't. But, you know, to our credit, we kept playing and obviously played way better in the second half, gave it three points in the second half and scored 28. I mean, it really was a tale of two halves. But, yeah, we certainly got a team like, hey, from this point forward, you can't start like that.
01:43:50
Speaker 2: I mean, it will not end good for us.
01:43:52
Speaker 15: So we've got to come out and play much better early in the game at the same time finishing in the second half.
01:43:58
Speaker 3: Looked a little shell-shocked after Miami brought the opening kickoff back, and what I didn't understand was I just felt like offensively they got away early in the game from what they're supposed to be, which is a good running team behind the left side of that offensive line. UC and Kansas State on Saturday night at 7 p.m.
01:44:15
Speaker 4: 513-749-1530.
01:44:16
Speaker 3: We thank everybody who has.
01:44:17
Speaker 2: Chimed in today. Mike, go ahead. You're on ESPN 1530.
01:44:25
Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Mo. Appreciate it. How's everybody at home?
01:44:28
Speaker 2: Everybody's well. Thank you for asking.
01:44:30
Speaker 4: Cool. No more snakes?
01:44:33
Speaker 2: No more snakes. No.
01:44:35
Speaker 3: So far, knock on wood, no more snakes.
01:44:37
Speaker 4: That was rude. I shouldn't have brought that up. I'm sorry.
01:44:40
Speaker 8: I apologize.
01:44:42
Speaker 4: Hey, congratulations to UK and UofL and everybody locally here. What a tremendous weekend for everybody, except the.
01:44:51
Speaker 2: Reds, of course.
01:44:52
Speaker 3: Louisville's good, and Will Stein, the Will Stein era. There was a chunk of that Alabama game where they were out playing the Crimson Tide, but then to go on the road and beat Texas A & M the way they did, that is a signature win, at least to this stage, of the Will Stein era in Lexington.
01:45:09
Speaker 4: I kind of did some history on that guy, and he's pretty impressive, and he's bringing a different swag down there, don't you think?
01:45:16
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, without question.
01:45:18
Speaker 3: Yes, when he said at SEC Media Days when he was asked, you know, the reason why Kentucky was going to get things turned around, and he said me, and I'm paraphrasing him here.
01:45:26
Speaker 2: I thought that was awesome.
01:45:28
Speaker 4: I love that. I got a question for you. Now, in your opinion, I haven't been– able to really focus on all the players on our new defense. But I did hear Rex Ryan say the other morning, you might have heard it on ESPN, he said he was just raving about Sexy Dexy. And he said, you know what? Dexter Lawrence eats tackles and guards like he eats cheeseburgers. He said this guy is, if they'd have just gotten him, he said, they would be a quantum leap better. Couldn't praise him enough.
01:46:07
Speaker 2: It was pretty cool.
01:46:08
Speaker 3: I think the great thing about it is, Mike, Dexter Lawrence, we've seen his effect, right? He's being double-teamed.
01:46:16
Speaker 2: He's making plays.
01:46:18
Speaker 3: The play he made on fourth and inches on Sunday was the best defensive play a Bengals player has made this season, but you're also seeing a lot of depth around him. You know, Cash is hell. How many Bengals rookies on defense have made an instant impact? Boye Moffay is giving the Bengals everything they paid for him to give. Cedric Johnson. Jonathan Allen had five pressures on Sunday, which I think they expected, but because he kind of exists in the shadow of Dexter Lawrence, he kind of gets forgotten. Chris Jenkins for the second consecutive week had an impact. Shamar Stewart had a sack in the game. It's two things. It's Dexter Lawrence... being what they thought he was going to be, but it's also a lot of other guys benefiting from it, but also giving the Bengals what they thought they were going to get from those guys individually.
01:47:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just, I've heard people calling in and go, well, what about this? What about that?
01:47:11
Speaker 8: Well, what about what?
01:47:13
Speaker 4: You've got an excellent team that turned it around in a year. Just revel in all of it, you knuckleheads. I don't get it, but anyway. What is your opinion of the two linebackers at this point in the season?
01:47:27
Speaker 2: So far, they haven't stood out for screwing up.
01:47:31
Speaker 4: Do you think they would bring Cassius Howell in there, or is it too early?
01:47:35
Speaker 3: To play linebacker?
01:47:37
Speaker 2: Yeah.
01:47:38
Speaker 3: I think they are more content with the production they're getting from him on the edge.
01:47:43
Speaker 4: Okay. You're always good at these trivia questions. Can I hit you with one real quick?
01:47:48
Speaker 2: Don't have a ton of time, but okay.
01:47:50
Speaker 3: Okay.
01:47:50
Speaker 4: Okay. Fastest 10 MLB players to reach 300 based on games played, not at bats.
01:47:59
Speaker 2: 300 home runs?
01:48:01
Speaker 4: They're all in your lifetime except two, maybe.
01:48:07
Speaker 3: To get to 300 home runs?
01:48:09
Speaker 4: Yes, sir.
01:48:11
Speaker 2: Judge?
01:48:13
Speaker 4: Yes, number one.
01:48:16
Speaker 5: A-Rod?
01:48:18
Speaker 4: He's fourth.
01:48:23
Speaker 3: Pete Alonzo?
01:48:25
Speaker 4: Pete Alonzo, he was 10th. That's why I'm asking, because he made such a big deal out of it the other day.
01:48:33
Speaker 2: My lifetime? Mark McGuire?
01:48:40
Speaker 4: Yes, sir. And I got a real good stat on him.
01:48:43
Speaker 2: Otani?
01:48:44
Speaker 4: I'll just give it to you. Otani, yes, sir. Number eight, I believe.
01:48:49
Speaker 2: Okay. All right. Give me the rest quickly.
01:48:53
Speaker 4: Okay. Judge Ralph Kiner back in the day. Ryan Howard.
01:48:57
Speaker 2: Oh.
01:48:59
Speaker 8: Yeah.
01:49:00
Speaker 4: Ryan Howard, that big monster. Yeah. A-Rod, Giancarlo Stanton, McGuire, Jose Gonzalez.
01:49:07
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
01:49:08
Speaker 4: Harmington. Jose Gonzalez, Harmon, Killebrew, Ohtani, and then Alonzo. But which guy has the most home runs per at-bat in their career?
01:49:19
Speaker 2: I didn't know this.
01:49:21
Speaker 3: Nope.
01:49:21
Speaker 4: Mark McGuire, 10.61 at-bats per home run. All right.
01:49:26
Speaker 2: That's good stuff.
01:49:27
Speaker 3: Mike, I've got to run, man. We've got to go. I appreciate the time. As always, we thank our friends at NewportCarnegie.com, Carnegie Hall here in Newport. And make sure you look at the Mercantile Immersive website to learn about the Bengals Watch Party on Sunday. We're back in the studio tomorrow. Thanks to Mike Mills producing on site. Taryn Bland back in Kenwood. Have a great night. This is ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
01:49:51
Speaker 7: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Traffic.
01:49:56
Speaker 11: From the UC Health Traffic Center, blood cancer patients deserve every option under one roof. Find the region's experts at the University of Cincinnati Cancer Center.
01:50:05
Speaker 2: Call 513-585-UCCC. Heavy pockets of traffic.
Speaker 1: The Bengals storm into the Steel City, looking to pitch Pittsburgh into the recycling bin. Just saying the word Pittsburgh makes me want to puke. The Bengals slug it out with the Steelers. Sunday, coverage begins at 9 a.m. Stream for free on the new and improved iHeartRadio app or on ESPN 1530, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals. It's the Bengals and Steelers.
00:00:30
Speaker 2: I'll be the Bengals and Steelers on Sunday. What's up? Good afternoon. I'm Mo Egger.
00:00:33
Speaker 3: This is ESPN 1530. Thank you very much for listening. I hope you're having an awesome Tuesday afternoon. Speaking of awesome, we're in an awesome place right now. The Carnegie Hall in Newport. Check this place out. NewportCarnegie.com. One of the best event venues you will ever see. I'm not having another wedding, ever. I mean, my daughter might get married one day. I guess I'll have to foot the bill for that. But if I have any say, this place here is where we're going to be doing that. You could have the wedding here. You could have the reception here. You could also host a radio show if you want, if you have one. I'm lucky enough that I do. So we're here at the Carnegie Hall in Newport. This event venue, part of the folks at Delightmore, they have a series of awesome venues all throughout the greater Cincinnati area. Last week, we were lucky enough to be at Mercantile Immersive, where, by the way, they will have a Bengals Steelers watch party on Sunday. You can learn more about that at mercantileimmersive.com. Today, though, we're across the river in Newport at Carnegie Hall, and a great day to be here. Love this place. And, of course, our guy Paul Daner Jr. is here from the Athletic and the Growler podcast on the Bengals.
00:01:44
Speaker 2: How's it going? I'm doing great. How are you doing? I'm well. I'm well.
00:01:47
Speaker 3: They're 2-0.
00:01:48
Speaker 2: Everybody's happy. The vibes are good.
00:01:51
Speaker 3: The vibes are good.
00:01:52
Speaker 2: It's hard to... We've seen the opposite side of the vibes after two games. I did a... I'm sure we'll talk plenty about Pittsburgh, but I did a little interview with our athletic Pittsburgh writer earlier today. The vibe's not so good there. And I was like, this is... Hearing him, I was like, this is familiar. This is the feeling that I'm used to hearing and seeing around Pittsburgh. two games where you start to question how will a lot of people survive said season and you can feel that. So it was a good reminder of just how far this team has come to not be feeling the way that they're feeling in Pittsburgh.
00:02:33
Speaker 3: I went on a Pittsburgh sports talk radio show. earlier this afternoon, and I just randomly said, I'm enjoying watching the Joey Porter Jr. stuff play out.
00:02:41
Speaker 2: Yes.
00:02:43
Speaker 3: And I said, I know firsthand the goldmine that this could be for you guys, but it is nice to watch another city have to wrestle with something like that.
00:02:52
Speaker 2: Yeah. Every time I would open my athletic app, because I follow a lot of people, but the AFC North, all of them, and I would see a story about the latest... As the world turns with Joey Porter Jr., I would smile every time. He'd be like, for once, it's not me. Just happy it's not me having to do this.
00:03:11
Speaker 3: You know how sometimes if there was like a company will have some sort of emergency crisis and they'll fly in a specialist to sort of handle it, consult? You could do that for the athletic in cities where there's a holdout or a hold-in or some sort of contract issue.
00:03:27
Speaker 2: You could sort of consult. the staff on how to handle something like that. Ownership distraction consultant.
00:03:32
Speaker 4: Yes.
00:03:33
Speaker 2: That could be your thing. Maybe I could be a consultant with the players. Have you considered holding your own press conference on the side of a practice field? Seen it, had its ups and downs there, but I think inevitably this might work for you.
00:03:47
Speaker 3: In the athletic, I notice now I get a little game scoreboard thing.
00:03:53
Speaker 2: On my phone for the teams that I follow. You do? Yeah. You in charge of that? I am not on the tech side.
00:04:00
Speaker 4: Okay, gotcha.
00:04:00
Speaker 2: No, those little game bugs are nice, though, actually. You can hop in there, and I'll go in there and drop some stuff into the chat and take questions at the game every once in a while, like at inactives, and then during the game I'll drop in there, too. So you can chat, you can see stuff. I like those. I kind of like the little bugs that you can follow. So I could ask you questions during the game that you're covering? I mean, you could. I don't, like, I mean, I'd rather you didn't. Okay. Fair.
00:04:27
Speaker 4: Fine.
00:04:27
Speaker 5: Me.
00:04:28
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:04:28
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:04:28
Speaker 2: Others. Others. I'm fine.
00:04:30
Speaker 3: Wait, wait until Tuesday for my question.
00:04:32
Speaker 2: Yeah. You have a whole hour. Okay. I mean, but you know, or just text me, here's what I'm starting with. Okay. Okay.
00:04:37
Speaker 3: Should I put a hundred dollars on cash as how at plus three 30 to be defensive rookie of the year?
00:04:45
Speaker 2: Because this is the guy that I want to talk about the most. Yeah. Yeah. I, it's a great, it's a great value. Um, When you talk about when we start adding up these pressures, when we start adding up what this defense theoretically can do, if what they've started with continues on this pace. Waves. Waves. I know. I had to go one more time. I had to go all the way in. I'm like, how far can I take this? You took it far. To real far. But my thing is, the Bengals' defense, in regards to your betting situation, The Bengals' defense, if it becomes a thing, I mean, the way people are talking about it is going to be such a narrative driver of, oh, my gosh, it's so different. What made it so different? They'll start with Dexter Lawrence, and then if you have Cassius Howell with, I mean, what's he on pace for? 60 pressures and 8 to 10 sags? He's going to be in that conversation. And at plus 330, yeah, I mean, it's hard not to like him. I just, they have, if you look, I was filtering out the second half because like man these second halves they have just been monsters getting after playing with this lead and partially it is very situational it's they've had them in in clear drop back situations with cj and with baker mayfield the week before um but cassius has the most pass rush snaps in the second half for the bangles this year they've given him the most opportunities and he's delivered his pressure rates are high he's he amazingly doesn't have credit for Sack yet, I guess, but he's been the creator of probably half of them, it feels like, just back there forcing the quarterback off his spot. His are going to come. He's just, you know, if they're going to be playing with leads a bunch and playing like this, he seems to be really, really living up to it.
00:06:38
Speaker 3: It's just nice to have an early draft pick who plays defense, who's contributing in year one, because they haven't had any of that.
00:06:47
Speaker 2: Well, Contributing positively. Yeah, contributing positively.
00:06:52
Speaker 3: But, like, Tony and I talked about him yesterday where he's like, you know, if you focus in on him, a lot of guys come from college and, like, good players. First-round picks. They have, like, one or two moves. And then they get here and they need more. Cassius Howell looks like he's got the full bag.
00:07:10
Speaker 2: Al Golden was talking about him in that regard yesterday. He said he's got three. He's, like, he's got speed. He's got, I guess it's whatever, the dip. Mm-hmm. it's called the ghost move you can call a number of different things i just call it teleporting to the quarterback um but and and a counter off of that and when you have three different things you can go to with the with where he's coming from and there'll be more tape out on him i don't think it's going to continue to be i'm not going to say easy but i i think it'll get harder for him but he's got he's got plenty in his bag his speed his feel for it and when to use those has just been great and he's he's just such a player that they haven't had that plays like that, that looks like that and is so built to close. And we, we were sort of talking about that as they look to, how are you going to replace the closing of Trey Hendrickson when you lose him? I mean, he was such a big part of their finishing ability. And I was, we sort of deemed him like the Mariano Rivera of the Bengals of what he did. And now like they have, a bunch of guys that feel, I mean, said Johnson feels like a closer at this point, but when you bring in these fresh speed rushers in the fourth quarter and here's 380 pound Trent Brown on drop back 62, who just is over it and has to try to deal with a speed rusher with fresh legs. Who's 21 years old or whatever. Like, It can be devastating for these guys. It's proven to be that for a couple of weeks, and I think that's the biggest advantage where you see some of the waves, if you will, coming through that have made such a difference. But particularly these young guys off the edge have been really living up to it. It's so contagious when this stuff starts happening and you get everybody contributing.
00:08:57
Speaker 3: He wasn't even on the board before the first game.
00:09:00
Speaker 2: Now plus 3,300.
00:09:00
Speaker 3: So, you know, buy it now.
00:09:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, what value on that? I'd take it.
00:09:05
Speaker 3: Um, yesterday I'm at lunch and I'm, I'm looking at Twitter on my phone and, uh, had somebody been sitting like in the next booth over, they would have thought that I got sent like nudes by somebody because the face I made when I saw your tweet with the 41 pressures.
00:09:22
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
00:09:22
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:09:23
Speaker 3: That is an astounding number.
00:09:25
Speaker 2: I like, it was, I was on my flight back and I was just kind of going through game stats and film or whatever. And I was like, oh, let's look and see. God, there's a lot of pressures here. I wonder what they ended up at. And I see 41, and it's one of those where you're like, oh, I hit the wrong. I must be on the season and not on the game page. So I went back. I was like, wait, am I on a whole previous season? 41, because I had run these numbers before the season started, thinking about what were their previous highs and pressures per season, feeling like that could really add up. It made no sense to me that 41 was a number. It does not even make sense. Their average per season the last six years is 12.6 per game pressures. And against Tampa Bay, in a game where they were really good and super disruptive, they had 14. So I'm looking... I'm looking at 41 and I'm like, what am I doing wrong? This is the pay. I'm adding them all up. There's Mafe with eight and Howell with six. I'm seeing it. They have 40. They created 41. Now, 41 pressures on essentially 27 pressured plays. CJ did drop back a lot. I mean, 65 total dropbacks. But still.
00:10:43
Speaker 2: That is a wild number, but it just goes to show when it's coming from everywhere and you're getting them so many times in third and long and third and long and playing from ahead, and then you have all those guys. It can add up fast, but it quickly got to this is the far end of the spectrum vision of best case scenario for this defensive line is what it looks like where you're looking at a number like 41 that just doesn't even make sense.
00:11:11
Speaker 3: So I saw the tweet. And then I thought, I have a little joke that I'm going to reply with. But I didn't want to get you mad at me. And so I didn't.
00:11:24
Speaker 2: Want to put you in a tough spot. So you wanted to save it for your little show here.
00:11:27
Speaker 3: I wanted to save it for my stupid little show here. And then I thought, I'll look at the ads and somebody else will make the joke. And it's like, only outdone by Orlando Brown. I couldn't come up with the proper joke. Orlando Brown gave up 42 pressures. I really couldn't frame it the right way, and I thought– I was a little bit disappointed in your followers that there was– nobody came back at you with– but it just goes– everybody's in a good mood.
00:11:52
Speaker 2: Everybody's in a good mood, and I think they were like– they were maybe too frozen to tweet. By the 41? By the 41, as I was. Like, it's just– or just double-checking me. Like, there's just– thinking the same thing I was. Like, this can't be a refresh. He's going to, like, edit this tweet. It must have been wrong. And I felt the same way. Yeah. Orlando, I mean– It's not super. It wasn't a super day for Orlando.
00:12:19
Speaker 3: We're going to spend some time on it. I knew you would, so I didn't want to go all the way there. But I'm not going to go there next. We're going to save that for later.
00:12:25
Speaker 2: Okay. Because I don't want to just instantly hit you with the bad stuff. Well, you know, I had this conversation with my editor. We were talking about just plans for what we're going to write this week. And I was like, at some point, we're going to get to Orlando. But it's disingenuous. It's not right to... to get to the one problem when there's so many good things that we need to be talking about right now that are much more the storyline with this team because we always want to revert to, especially after wins, it's like a very typical reversion of all the praise after the game, Monday follow, what about the problem? But I was like, I don't even feel right doing that because there's too many other positive things that we need to focus on here before we start getting into what's the issue. Yeah, and look, there's always an imperfection.
00:13:16
Speaker 3: There's always a question. There's always a flaw, but I'm with you, and I even said that to Tony yesterday. I'm like, all right, we got to talk about Orlando Brown, but I'm not coming out of the gate talking about him, and it's going to be a while because for the second straight week, there were just so many different dudes I wanted to talk about.
00:13:32
Speaker 2: And honestly, Cash's out was at the top of that list. And the guy on the other side of Orlando Brown should probably be where we start either way, and that's Amari Smith. Have you clipped.
00:13:42
Speaker 3: The part of the growler where I gave bold predictions and talked about Amari as being an all-pro?
00:13:47
Speaker 2: I will do that for you. I will go back and do that. I have not done that yet. When he does, I will point out that you said it first. There's a lot of bold predictions that have been streaming in the right direction. A lot of things said before the season, which usually are made to quickly look silly, do not look so silly after a couple of games. You started talking about predictions about where this defense could end up at the end of the season. McPherson, Mims, pressure rates, things like that. There's a lot of things that felt kind of crazy that don't really feel so crazy now.
00:14:18
Speaker 3: Paul Daner Jr. from TheAthletic.com with its new score bug.
00:14:22
Speaker 2: Is that what you call it? What is it called? It's, yeah, it's, I mean, you get a notification. You get a notification. Notification, and you can go into, it's a game. The game has started. Yes, it's like a game day hub where you have all the information there. Our writers drop in there. And if you can't, like.
00:14:37
Speaker 3: If you're not watching the game for some reason or can't listen to it, it.
00:14:40
Speaker 2: Tells you what's going on. It's nice. It is. Thank you.
00:14:42
Speaker 4: I appreciate it.
00:14:43
Speaker 2: I have no hand in it. Visually, aesthetically. I was just told that I need to be contributing to it. Okay. Well, I'm happy to contribute. No, I don't know. I don't want you to contribute to it. Theathletic.com.
00:14:54
Speaker 3: Get the app and also check out the Growler podcast as well.
00:14:58
Speaker 2: Paul's here till four.
00:14:59
Speaker 3: I'm here till six. We're at Carnegie Hall in Newport 19 after three o'clock. This is is ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:15:08
Speaker 7: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530.
00:15:12
Speaker 8: Traffic.
00:15:13
Speaker 9: From the UC Health Traffic Center, no one covers the bingles like ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:15:23
Speaker 3: 24 minutes after 3 o'clock, this is ESPN 1530. Mo Egger, appreciate you listening today. We're broadcasting from Carnegie Hall at Newport, a delight morgue. Exclusive venue, check out NewportCarnegie.com. Paul Daynor Jr. from The Athletic and The Growler Podcast. The game on Sunday, like, if you are looking at it through the lens of like, you know, was this the most entertaining game in the NFL on Sunday? Not even close. Even Tony yesterday is like, you know what? Kind of a boring football game top to bottom, although there was some cool stuff in it. But that is exactly... the kind of game I wanted to see if they could win. I wanted to see if they could win a field position game. I wanted to see on the road against a team that we think is going to be pretty good, a field position game, a game where the offense kind of spun its tires a little bit, a game where the defense had to do maybe a little bit more heavy lifting than you would like. I wanted to see if they could win that sort of game. And so I loved it. As much as, you know, again, we can talk about Orlando Brown or some of the issues the Bengals had taking advantage of good field position early in the game.
00:16:32
Speaker 2: I've said this to you often.
00:16:33
Speaker 3: I think if they're going to win a championship, they have to win a lot of different types of games. That's the kind of game that across the course of a season, you have to figure out a way to win.
00:16:42
Speaker 2: And they did.
00:16:42
Speaker 3: That's what I liked.
00:16:43
Speaker 2: The word used yesterday around the building was grimy a lot, which I like. I like that. It's a good word. But I think it's just showing that they can win. I mean, everybody knows they can win a shootout, and they can win a game that is aesthetically pleased. But can you go in there and win a grimy game against a grimy team and have your defense be the one that makes that happen for you and do the little things right? Win it with fundamentals, like you said, with pinning down four times inside the 13 or whatever it was and stay on that and get stops and get them in third and longs and and do those little things that add up to winning games and understanding that and not messing it up with a dumb turnover or something like that offensively. And I think they did that. They managed the game on offense. They played great on special teams. It's a complete game that took a really good team and took them out of it and did it without having to do anything spectacular. Like I go back, if you go back to... we've been talking a lot about the 21-22 seasons, but if you go back to that 10-game winning streak, it was just, even, it didn't matter. They would just always find a way. They were inevitable, and they would just very much, in a business-like manner, just dispose of teams, because if you had one weakness, they would exploit it enough, and didn't even have to be great in any way to go and beat anybody, and I think those Those types of wins look like Sunday. I'm not saying they're about to go on a streak like that, but that's what it looks like when you have a team like that. That's complete and can do those types of things. I think it showed the continuity of their entire operation. I think it showed itself against Houston. And the special teams helped. Yeah, I mean, do you have any doubt when Evan McPherson walks out there from any distance?
00:18:51
Speaker 3: When they took the five-yard penalty?
00:18:53
Speaker 2: It wasn't that long ago where it was like, would you even send him out there?
00:18:56
Speaker 3: So they try a field goal, then there's a penalty, so they end up punting away instead of trying a 63-yarder. I wanted another penalty so he could try a 68-yarder. So my bold prediction that he would break the record this year would come true.
00:19:11
Speaker 2: But, like.
00:19:12
Speaker 3: 68 might be pushing it. But had they tried it from 63, I don't know if that would have fit in the context of the game, which was a field position game.
00:19:21
Speaker 2: I would have been like, all right, let's see. Why not? Why not? I mean, if he had hit it like he hit the 57 or 58 yard, it would have been good. Yeah. Yeah, he's been great. And I think when you're playing stylistically a game like you were playing on Sunday, I mean, Ryan Rico is– A huge part of that. Especially if your defense is playing like it's playing, and you're just consistently forcing the other team to come out from the shadows of their own goalposts. It wears on them, and it did. It wore on them on Sunday on Houston. They had a long way to go, and And, yeah, those things certainly play together. And he's just gotten so much better at that. Again, it falls into the line of so many things we've talked about. We're like, well, you know, the defense, they seem to have put the right pieces, and that should be better. And their tackling should be better because of this. And the offense should be better because they're using under center, and they can do more things here. And Joe should be better at this. And Rico, he's been working on this. All of these things have all come true. Through two weeks. Through two weeks. But they've all played out. Dexter Lawrence should... Man, he should be, if he can get back to that level. If he seems motivated, could change everything. And sure enough, two weeks in, he's changed everything. It's just everything that you were kind of betting on and hoping, maybe in like an 80% range, has come true through two weeks. And that's why I think the Bengals should be feeling so good about where they're at. And yet.
00:21:03
Speaker 3: they still had on Sunday. Effort Jamar's down there somewhere in their bag.
00:21:09
Speaker 2: They always have that. It's the best part is that they can always, if things are clunky, if things are rough, if they're making mistakes, if there's just something happening with pass rush, you can always just spam the T and Jamar buttons. And you can just Throwback shoulders, the tee, you can just throw it up to Jamar. You can do all of these things, and they'll make plays for you. When you can do that, you just have a button that no one else in the NFL has access to. That's why people tweet things like, uh-oh, Cincinnati has a defense, because you can always win. You can win when everything is not going your way, but you have a defense, and you can hit the tee and Jamar button. That's enough to win against almost anybody in the league.
00:21:57
Speaker 3: It's 3.31. We're at the Newport Carnegie Hall in downtown Newport, just off the river.
00:22:05
Speaker 2: Our buddy Paul Danner Jr.
00:22:06
Speaker 3: From The Athletic and The Growler Podcast is where the sports headlines are coming up. And then we'll talk about Orlando Brown on ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:22:17
Speaker 7: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530.
00:22:20
Speaker 2: Traffic. Station. Line for a service at Kelsey Chevrolet.
00:22:24
Speaker 3: Home of Lifetime, powertrain protection, and guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours. For life, KelseyChev.com. Off day for the Bengals. Any Bengals news today?
00:22:33
Speaker 2: Anything significant? Anything big?
00:22:35
Speaker 6: No?
00:22:36
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:22:37
Speaker 3: They will take on the Steelers in Pittsburgh Sunday at 1. The game is live on ESPN 1530. Meanwhile, because baseball's rules say every team has to play 162 games, Reds play the Braves tonight in Atlanta. Brandon Williamson will be opposed by J.R.
00:22:51
Speaker 2: Ritchie.
00:22:52
Speaker 3: 7-10, 7-15, actually, tonight's first pitch on 700 WLW. The Reds have brought Connor Phillips back up from AAA, and they have placed Tony Santeon on the injured list with a left hip labral tear. That sounds painful. I forgot that Connor Phillips was a part of the organization. Anyway, go listen to the game tonight. See if they can avoid losing 90 games.
00:23:16
Speaker 2: I remember a time when Connor Phillips was like the centerpiece.
00:23:19
Speaker 8: Yes.
00:23:19
Speaker 2: Of the bullpen plant.
00:23:21
Speaker 3: A year ago at this time, he was awesome. He was the star of what was happening.
00:23:24
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:23:25
Speaker 3: And then the season started. He could stop walking, guys. And then he got banished. But now he's back.
00:23:32
Speaker 2: Have we gotten the final, the current number of walks with the bases loaded by the Reds? That number was so crazy at one point. And I'm sure it's still far and away lapping the rest of Major League Baseball. But that's like one of those, wouldn't you? What do you remember most about a season? If you ask me in 10 years, I'll be like, oh, yeah, that's the years that they had, like, you know, whatever, 35 walks with the bases loaded.
00:23:57
Speaker 3: I feel like the pace has slowed in large part because now when they allow guys to get on base, like, dudes just hit home runs.
00:24:06
Speaker 2: So we don't really get to. They're not walking them? Yeah, it's great.
00:24:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, so instead of scoring one at a time, they just score three at a time.
00:24:13
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:24:13
Speaker 3: When you were a kid, did you read the Highlights magazine?
00:24:16
Speaker 8: Absolutely.
00:24:17
Speaker 2: My kids still get it. Do they really? Yeah.
00:24:19
Speaker 3: Do they still have Goofus and Gallant?
00:24:22
Speaker 2: Oh, I remember Goofus and Gallant.
00:24:23
Speaker 8: Yeah.
00:24:23
Speaker 3: That's Orlando Brown and Amarius Mims. Amarius Mims is awesome.
00:24:29
Speaker 2: Amarius Mims is awesome. He is awesome.
00:24:31
Speaker 3: He has been like everything you could want a tackle to be and more for the first two games. He is, for those who are uninitiated.
00:24:39
Speaker 2: He's Gallant. He's Gallant.
00:24:41
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:24:41
Speaker 2: Goofus on the other side.
00:24:42
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:24:43
Speaker 2: Orlando Brown. Do you want me to take it from there? Yeah, go ahead. What should I do with this? I can tell you. I have a very well-formed thought on this. Orlando Brown is the 17th highest paid left tackle in the NFL. I think that's probably proper with probably a couple guys that are on rookie contracts that are better than him. I think he is a starting level below average amongst those 32 left tackle. Will Anderson is the top paid edge rusher in the NFL, and Daniil Hunter is number five. For good reason, they live up to it. When you have an average to maybe below average starting left tackle against an elite edge rusher, it's going to look something like that sometimes. When that's happening this year, he needs help. They've got to give him help. They have to have people over there. They have to be chipping. Maybe in the past, it has been, we can leave our tackles on an island here and they can handle it. That's not the current situation. I think that is the lesson that was learned Sunday. And Zach Taylor has talked about this often over the years, about they feel like they can scheme around tackles. Now, normally, we were talking about the carousel of clowns that was happening at right tackle over the course of the years. But now, I think you're, And I'm not saying that Orlando's on that level. It's not. But it's the same idea. You have to be more cognizant. If Samaje Pirine or Chase Brown are in the backfield or Drew Sample's standing there next to Joe Burrow, don't even look to your right. You don't need to scan that way. Keep your eyes on the left tackle and get out there. Add chips into the routes more often. They know how to scheme around. if they feel like they're losing out there. And in fact, they did it fairly effectively once they got into the second half, recognize what was happening. I think that's the lesson that come out of it. I think you can deal with it. And I think when they go against a team that has average starting level edges, I think Orlando will be fine. I think he can hang in there. There is certainly concerned over what you've seen. And we've been talking about it throughout from through the end of last year to camp, to the Eric O'Neill incident, to, Now this. It's growing. But I don't think it's something that is debilitating at this point. And you have to recognize what you have a little bit more. And Orlando can get you through this. You just got to help him. You just have to recognize that you're going to have to scheme it up a little bit more on that side. Okay.
00:27:30
Speaker 6: I know.
00:27:31
Speaker 2: I'm not... And that's going to take away from some of the things you want to do. It is.
00:27:36
Speaker 3: It doesn't, I guess, dramatically shrink their playbook, but it does shrink it. If it's now we've got to figure out a way to put training wheels on this guy over here, it's seemingly fewer things you're able to do with the personnel you have.
00:27:52
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:27:53
Speaker 2: I mean, we're probably going to have to talk to Dante Myers about how to chip a little bit. or guys, and that's fine, man, if you can add that. It's the advantage of having Jamar and T is you can take the other guy, you can take whoever your third person is, you can line Eric Hall up over there, you can have Andre be a little bit tighter and maybe his route comes off a little slower. You're probably not targeting him anyway. When you've got those other guys you know you're targeting, they can still get out for free. You're not going to ask them to do that stuff, but you have enough at your disposal, I think, that you can make it work. It hasn't been... They don't have another option is the thing. It'd be different. This would be a totally different conversation if they would have done stuff that we had talked about. Like maybe they use their second or third round pick on, on a tackle. And you'd be like, when is it time for this? Well, there's no, when is it time for Javon Foster? Okay. That's, that's not coming right now. And in fact, the moment when Amarius shoe exploded, like Zion Williamson, uh, I think that was maybe the scariest moment of the game. Forget Joe Burrow getting hit in the back. That was the scariest moment because they came out there on third and long with Javon Foster at right tackle and Orlando, who'd been having a tough day at left tackle. And to their credit, converted. But like, that is what you have to be thinking about is it can get worse in a hurry.
00:29:21
Speaker 3: How, if at all, eye-opening is it, how good Amarius Mims has been?
00:29:27
Speaker 2: I don't, I mean, I think it's just an, An extension of who he became at the end of last year. I think he's figured it out. I think he figured it out and that was apparent last year. but like, so eyeopening, I don't know. I just think it's, this was always his potential.
00:29:46
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:29:46
Speaker 2: I mean, built and moving like that every, when he was drafted, it was like, well, he'd be a top five guy if he played more. And if he lives up to his, his athleticism, he could be the best in the game. No, Nobody in the scouting community shied away from that concept. It was just, will he become that? And he's become that. He knows what he's doing. He's smart. He sees it. He's intelligent. He knows how to pass off and when to do something, what guys are trying to do. It doesn't matter who you are. When you watch the cut-up of the one-on-ones that he had against those two dudes, they're just He knows when to run them all the way around the top. He knows when to just hold on the bowl. He knows when to try to hold on the bowl and watch his shoe explode. He just does it. When he knows what you're doing, when he gets you, it's over. It's over. There's no winning for that guy. He's been outstanding. If people keep paying attention, I think you're all pro things very much in play.
00:30:46
Speaker 3: Where should the level of concern be with the fact that we're two games in and we're just, we're still talking a lot about Joe Burrow's body parts.
00:30:58
Speaker 2: Back. I mean, yeah, some, I don't know. I don't think it's a huge, I'm not, I think after seeing what he took on Sunday, considering it was his first game with this back rib, whatever it is. Um, issue, considering that that's the case, and we saw him take those big hits, ten of them, five sacks, whatever, and play the way he played and still be able to move the way he moved and make the throws that we saw him make, I'm not super concerned with it. I expect we'll probably see him be limited for a little while, and I wonder how long that will go on as an indication of how he's feeling, but if this is just whatever this is, and and he can play that way through it, I think they're just fine. Yeah, he did move very well.
00:31:50
Speaker 3: I mean, he was vintage Joe in that regard.
00:31:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I wonder, you know, I mean, I don't know. He didn't really have to uncork many deep shots. I mean, the one was really the Jamar ball that was really high and kind of hung up there, so I don't... We'll see, I guess, will they have more opportunities for that if that looks the same? He's got the same distance and velo and spin on those. But for now, I mean, if that's Joe... you know, I think you're okay. Yeah.
00:32:18
Speaker 3: I said this to you on your pod this morning, and I'll bring it up here because I had it planned. I mean, Jamar Chase makes this insane catch, which if there's another better catch in the NFL this year, I can't wait to see it. Meanwhile, there's T. Higgins converting third downs, moving the chains, quietly going about his job. No highlight reel stuff. Nobody after the game was like, going on and on about a catch that T. Higgins made, but he was uber important in that game. And by the way, he got some of that attention for the catch he made on third down against the Bucs. I said this to you on your pod, but I love that dude. Because you have to know, I'm going to be overshadowed at a position where guys don't want to be overshadowed. And he played a really good game, an important game. Nobody cares. Nobody talks about it. Because Jamar does the otherworldly. And what I love about T is at least publicly, he's very content with that. That's not that common at that position.
00:33:21
Speaker 10: No.
00:33:21
Speaker 2: I mean, it's usually the biggest problem.
00:33:24
Speaker 4: Yes.
00:33:24
Speaker 2: At wide receiver two in the NFL. And I'm not calling. I know he's 1A. We were all put on notice about that. And I don't view him that way. But I just think that that is a common issue is that you want to be the man. You want to be seen when people talk about you. You want to get the coverage. That's the deal. Him and Jamar. Jamar, I think, has the same amount of lacking ego and unselfishness, I think, in a lot of ways. Two passes the first game. And he showed that during the week last week. You know what I mean? I think he showed that growth, and there's plenty of times where he hasn't. But I think it comes from a place of just wanting to win and not of, I need my numbers. It's never been about that for either of those guys, even though they've gotten plenty of numbers.
00:34:11
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:34:12
Speaker 2: And I think what you're talking about is why I think the T chant hits so hard. Is because real Bengals fans love T for that and try to show him something. You know what's funny is at that game in person, I don't know how much it came over on the TV copy, but when T made his first catch, man, there was a lot of loud Ts. And it was the moment you said, oh, there's a ton of Bengals fans that travel to this game because That's how you know. You hear that sound when he makes the catch. It's how you know how many Bengals fans are there. And it was like– it made us all kind of look at each other like, wow, there's a lot of Bengals fans here because you really heard that. And I think that's because they always want to make sure T knows that he deserves– The love and the fans clearly have that for him, and I think a lot of it is because of what you're talking about. I wasn't at the stadium, obviously.
00:35:05
Speaker 3: I was at an establishment in Fort Wright, Dickman's, and I didn't hear what the announcers were doing. I didn't hear the chants of T in the stands because I heard them throughout the bar.
00:35:15
Speaker 2: It's just something everybody does. It's what you do. It's instinctive. That's what everybody does.
00:35:20
Speaker 3: I love that dude, and I know I've talked about this with you before, like, He has paid a lot of money. And so, like, everything's relative. But I'll sign up to be the second banana. Like, just doesn't happen, man.
00:35:36
Speaker 2: No.
00:35:36
Speaker 3: And so, like, man, Jamar's catch was absurd. He is a remarkable football player. But, like, there's T just moving the sticks.
00:35:45
Speaker 2: And making, like, remarkable plays in his own right. Like, that back shoulder third down was a massive play in the game and an insanely difficult one. to pull off, and he sort of does it in a very matter-of-fact way, and it just goes about his business. So, I mean, that's just it. When you got both of them and you got Joe, there's just no way that anybody can really, truly slow it down or know the thing that they can stop it because there's just an unstoppable nature to the two of them generally.
00:36:19
Speaker 3: There's also something about the difficulty in preparing for them where in game one, Mike Kosicki is awesome. And in game two, you don't notice them. And the Texans, I think, played the way they did defensively against the Bengals as a response to what Mike Gesicki did. And then it's like, cool. I don't know that they took him away, but to me, it was just a demonstration of an offense that can beat you in a number of different ways.
00:36:42
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it was the exact opposite in terms of distribution. I mean, they were just very T and Jamar heavy in this game.
00:36:50
Speaker 3: Sort of had a sense that was going to be the case.
00:36:51
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but then in the previous game, you know, it was distributed what nine different receivers had receptions and, and, and Gesicki has the big day and Dante Myers and Samaj P Ryan. It's just, and that's, you know, it's part of it. It's obviously the beauty of Joe Burrow is that he'll just, he'll take what's there. And if he sees Jamar T even there a little bit, he's going to always take them. But like, The idea is if you're specifically– such a big storyline of last year and the last couple of years now has been just teams going to this double-double thing on the two of them and challenging the Bengals to have another guy that can beat them. And I think when week one shows you what it shows you, that those guys can beat you, maybe it limits your ability to go do that. And if Joe sees that you're not doing that, we know where the ball goes. And I think– and so now– The defensive coordinators have to pick what they want to do, and Joe's going to pick which way he probably wants to try to beat you that day. And that's why it's going to be fascinating to see what evolves against this because they just have– they do. They have a lot of answers. They have a lot of tools in the belt, and we'll see where it goes next. As a kid, I identified with Goofus. You did? Yeah. I see. Well, I certainly wasn't a gallant. I can tell you that much. But it's good. Good for you.
00:38:09
Speaker 3: Thanks very much. I will occasionally find myself in a waiting room with my daughter. And if they have highlights, I will grab it, see what Goofus and Gallant.
00:38:19
Speaker 2: Are up to. I was a picture pages guy. Oh, yeah.
00:38:22
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:38:23
Speaker 2: I mean, remember Picture Pages? The pen that made noise. Yeah, of course. That was a big one. That was a big one. I was always a big Picture Pages guy. Yeah. We do the search now. You've got to find all the items in there. Yeah, yeah. As you get to the next level up, they get a little harder than they should be.
00:38:38
Speaker 3: My sister-in-law got my daughter a book, and it's Find Crosley, and you have to find Crosley. It's much younger, but you have to find her in this collage.
00:38:47
Speaker 2: Like, where's Waldo?
00:38:48
Speaker 3: And we're still stuck on the last one.
00:38:51
Speaker 2: It's been years. I have no idea. Did we remember to put the picture in there?
00:38:57
Speaker 3: We both have looked at each other like, go play checkers or something.
00:39:01
Speaker 2: This is stupid.
00:39:02
Speaker 3: TheAthletic.com, The Growler Podcast, latest episode out.
00:39:07
Speaker 2: Yes. It had me on it. It did. Wow. You did a great job.
00:39:11
Speaker 3: A theme song now.
00:39:12
Speaker 2: You have a great theme song. Yeah. And I've already made sure that the– The photo that we talked about being in next week has already been placed in, so we'll take care of that. All right.
00:39:22
Speaker 3: Go catch the latest installment of the Growler podcast, and we'll talk next week.
00:39:27
Speaker 2: Enjoy Pittsburgh. Looking forward to it.
00:39:28
Speaker 4: Thanks.
00:39:29
Speaker 3: Eight away from four o'clock. Mo Egger here till six. We are broadcasting from Carnegie Hall in Newport on ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:39:40
Speaker 7: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Traffic.
00:39:44
Speaker 11: From the UC Health Traffic Center.
00:39:47
Speaker 2: What's up?
00:39:48
Speaker 6: Good afternoon.
00:39:48
Speaker 3: Mo Legger, ESPN 1530. Thank you so much for listening today. Hopefully you're having an awesome Tuesday afternoon. We are broadcasting from an unbelievable menu. An unbelievable venue. Although, if you have your event here, you could take advantage of an unbelievable menu. We're at Carnegie Hall at Newport. Check out newportcarnegie.com. This venue under the umbrella of the folks at Delightmore. Last week, we were at Mercantile Immersive, which is going to have an awesome Bengals game day watch party. This Sunday, GA tickets, 50 bucks. That will include your food and non-alcoholic beverages, unlimited. Premium tickets at 70 bucks include downtown parking. There will be a full cash bar available all game long. Doors open at noon. Game starts at 1 o'clock. This isn't just watching the game on a television. It's being surrounded by the game. It is an unbelievable, unique experience. You can check out mercantileimmersive.com. Specifically, go to mercantileimmersive.com slash tickets. That's this Sunday, Bengals and Steelers. We love that venue. We love the venue that we're at here in Newport. Carnegie Hall. Our sports legal expert, attorney Stuart W. Penrose, in about 30 minutes on a slew, I said a slew, of sports legal topics. Awesome stuff, as always, from our guy Paul Daner Jr. We were talking about Sunday's game, and like, you don't want to say ho-hum. The game certainly had its high points of entertainment, but a 20-6 football game, relatively speaking, isn't going to light the country on fire. It was a business-like performance. It was an efficient performance by the defense. It was an effective enough performance by the Cincinnati offense. And it was a terrific performance yet again by the Bengal special teams units. But, you know, if this team ends up being as good as we hope it is, and as many of us believe it can be, I think there's two things about that game. It's going to go down as maybe one of the more forgettable games. Every win matters, and When you go to Houston and win on the road as underdogs by two touchdowns, that's a big deal. But also, I think it's going to be an example of the multiple ways in which the Bengals won games this year. And again, you might not think the Bengals are going to be all that good this season, but I'm a big believer that if you're going to really seriously contend for a championship, yes, you want to have an identity. And yes, you want to have things that you can hang your hat on. And what was so cool about the Jamar Chase catch was it was a reminder that we still have that. And there's lots of different ways we want to play offensively, but we still have that. There are still effing Jamars down there somewhere in their bag, and that was great. But I'm a big believer that if you're going to win a championship in this league, you've got to find ways to win games in a variety of ways. You've got to play complementary football. You've got to have a team that's capable of, you know, one side maybe bailing out the other. Bengals' offense on Sunday wasn't necessarily awful, but early in the game, they wasted... really good field position on three consecutive drives. And yet you didn't feel like the Bengals were not in control of the game. You got to win games in a lot of different ways. You know, if you go back to 2021, when you think of that year, the chances are you do what I do. You think of, you know, 41 points throwing for 575 against the Baltimore Ravens. You think of how they beat the Chiefs in the regular season, that iconic game that Jamar Chase played still. The greatest game I've ever seen a wide receiver play where Joe Burrow and Patrick Mahomes were just in this shootout with each other. They scored 41 that year against the Pittsburgh Steelers in a game that I saw Mike Tomlin quit, punted at midfield with his team down by 24 points. You think of explosiveness, you think of a lot of points, but you know what the biggest win in the regular season I think that year was?
00:43:45
Speaker 2: It was on December 19th.
00:43:47
Speaker 3: Right before Christmas 2021, the Bengals had just lost two consecutive games at home. And the first of those two losses, they kind of got blown out by the Chargers. Now, the game was maybe not as much of a blowout as the final score indicated because the Bengals were driving late. There was a Joe Mixon fumble, but they lost 41-21 to the Chargers. And then the next week, lose a game in overtime, and it was a gut punch of a loss. where Zach Taylor in his second season takes the ball out of Joe Burrow's hands with a chance to win. They lose that game. They fall to seven and six. And a lot of us were looking at the schedule going, okay, they've got to go to Denver, play Baltimore here, play Kansas city here. And that's before they go to Cleveland. Like things were kind of teetering on the brink. Now that Ravens team, they ended up playing and I'm having a lot of guys who didn't play because of COVID, but that Broncos game, they go on the road, And they eke out a 15-10 win. Now, Denver's quarterbacks that day were Teddy Bridgewater and Drew Locke. Bridgewater got hurt in that game. The Bengals' offense was limited to three field goals and a 56-yard touchdown pass from Joe Burrow to Tyler Boyd. In the 2021 season, where the Bengals win 10 games and then three in the postseason, it is probably the game that is forgotten about the most. It is a game that I think was... a little bit of a precursor of what they would have to do in the postseason. And it's an example of a team that might be defined by offensive explosiveness and fireworks and Burrow and Higgins and Chase. And we could put up gaudy passing numbers, but they found a way to win a grinded out type game where the defense had to carry the offense a little bit. They got some elite special teams played that day and they found a way to win on the road. Didn't beat a great quarterback, played two, you know, okay ones at best. But they go on the road and found a way to win 15 to 10. And even in the postseason, if you look at that run in 2021, and God knows I've talked about this a lot, my favorite of those three victories was the Tennessee game where Joe Burrow got sacked, what, 10 times? Never turned the football over. And again, you go back to this past Sunday, great value in never turning the football over. But they had an opportunistic defense. They took advantage of some shaky clock management by Mike Vrabel, but they They found a way to win this real ugly, grimy playoff game on the road against the number one seed in the conference. And it wasn't offensive explosiveness. It was kind of the antithesis of how they played at the very end of the year when they were hanging 41 on Baltimore, hanging 34 on Kansas City. It's maybe not what you would have expected from that team, but you got to win games in a lot of different ways. So what I take away from Sunday is, Look, we can discuss some of the offensive issues they had, especially early in the game. Great value in not turning it over. Great value on good special teams. Great value on winning a field position battle. But to me, great value in winning a game in a way that they haven't been able to win in quite a while. When you think of the Bengals in recent years, you think of a lot of points, and maybe they win with those points. Or sometimes, unfortunately, quite often actually, They lose despite scoring all those points. Can they win a game that's, you know, a little bit more of a field position game? Can they win a game where Burroughs, maybe not at his best? Can they win a game where some of the pass protection issues crop up again? Can they win a game where defensively they just seem to have your number on Sunday against an opponent that I think most of us believe is still going to be pretty good on the road against a Texas team that I think we expected to play with desperation? They won a little bit of a ho-hum game. They won a business-like game. They won a game because of their defense. Joe Burrow was not an accessory. Jamar Chase and Tee Higgins were certainly not accessories, but they weren't the stars of the game. The stars were Dexter Lawrence and Cassius Howe and Boye Mafe and Cedric Johnson, and at times, though he had snaps where he struggled, Dax Hill. And the linebacker's not standing out for all the issues we saw last year. The offense was a little bit more of an accessory. And when you think of the Bengals, it's typically the defense is an accessory. If the Bengals are going to win, they've got to score a ton of points. They've got to outscore you, or hopefully they can blow you out by scoring a bunch of points, but they probably won't because they can't stop anybody on defense. That's not supposed to be the case this year, and that wasn't the case on Sunday. And that, to me at least, is what was best about that game. They showed And it might not have to show it again, but they showed they can win a game that looks and feels and is played different than so many other games that they've won and in many games that they've lost. Can they win with special teams and defense? And on Sunday, the answer was yes. And it has been a while since I think any of us believed, especially on the road, especially against a good team. I think it's been a while since any of us really believed the Bengals could win a game using defense and special teams, playing a field position game, spinning their tires on offense. Money Mac, by the way, looks like a completely loaded weapon. Ryan Rico has gotten, I think, a little bit better at precision punting. Those things don't get a lot of run.
00:49:19
Speaker 2: Like, we don't talk... punting often.
00:49:20
Speaker 3: We talk maybe more about Evan McPherson than we have other kickers. But those things are important, and they help you find a way to win games when your offense is kind of okay. The Bengals' offense on Sunday was kind of okay. T.
00:49:36
Speaker 2: Higgins had a good game.
00:49:37
Speaker 3: Jamar Chase made an unbelievable catch. Chase Brown had some very good runs, and they got some really good offensive line play from everybody not named Orlando Brown, but what defined that game on Sunday was defense and special teams and not turning the football over, and what I think of, how do you win a championship over the course of a season? Gotta demonstrate that you can win a lot of different type of games. Bengals won a different type of game on Sunday. Now, I did talk about Orlando Brown, and Orlando Brown's cool because he comes to Cincinnati and it feels like he kind of wrapped his arms around the city. You've seen him and heard him a lot of places. He's had a very good career. If Orlando Brown is your worst offensive lineman, there's a very good chance your offensive line is really good. I've said this about baseball players, guys we talk about who bat 7th and 8th and 9th. You know, years ago, Zach Cozart was going through a slump. And I say this at the risk of like getting yelled at on Twitter by Zach Cozart, because I guess he yells at a lot of people on Twitter. But years ago, Zach Cozart was going through it and a bad few weeks. And I'm getting phone calls about Zach Cozart. And I go like, I don't know, man, like if the eighth place hitter is who we're complaining about, then the rest of the team must be pretty good. This is back when pitchers still batted. And there was something to that, right? Like we're complaining about the eighth place guy. which means everything else must be fixed. The top seven guys in the order must be raking, but also like your eighth place hitter, like his floor is going to be lower than everybody else's. So Orlando Brown is the subject of our gripe right now, in large part because there's not that much else to gripe about. Not really on the offensive line. Reisner had some bad snaps on Sunday, but for the most part, you got four guys who are playing at a pretty good level. Marius Mims is playing at an all pro level. Defense looks dominant. Offense, we know what its capability is, and they've had their moments here in the first two games. But Orlando Brown stood out on Sunday for not being very good. And so, number one, the fact that we're talking about one dude so much does tell you everybody else is doing their job. Also, if you subscribe to the belief, and Paul just talked about this with us last hour, if you subscribe to the belief that Orlando Brown at this stage in his career is a slightly to below or maybe even very below average offensive lineman, then chances are his floor is lower than that of anybody else in the unit. And it is one thing to talk about Orlando.
00:52:14
Speaker 5: Brown, you know, for an isolated incident or for an isolated game, but this is a guy that we keep.
00:52:25
Speaker 3: Talking about, right? Like at the end of the season last year, Bengals offensive line was playing at a pretty high level. But Orlando Brown stood out amid all those other offensive linemen because we saw him get beat, saw him get knocked on his rear end, saw him get beat off the edge. And there were times last year where you felt like, God, Orlando Brown.
00:52:47
Speaker 2: It's true.
00:52:48
Speaker 3: His best football is really behind him. And then there was the preseason game where a guy named Eric O'Neal beat him off the edge, actually beat him kind of to the inside and gets to Joe Burrow. And, you know, you could kind of go, okay, well, you know, veteran offensive linemen who know they've made the team, maybe they're not giving it their all compared to the guy they're trying to block. Even established NFL starters have bad moments against players who are lower on the depth chart. It was a bad rep, not that big of a deal. But then there was Sunday's game and it wasn't just one play like Orlando Brown wasn't good. And so like, this is now a thing. It's like, if you're late to work once, it's not a thing. Like, okay, you were late to work. No big deal. It happens.
00:53:35
Speaker 2: Don't let it happen again.
00:53:36
Speaker 3: It happens a second time.
00:53:37
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:53:38
Speaker 3: Maybe it's not a thing, but more of a thing than when it happened the first time. Like by the third time, it's like, dude, you're late to work all the time. That's how, that's, that's how it works. Like, it's not, you're late to work 50 times before we say you're late to work all the time. It's like three times, at least how it works in a normal business. Not that I've ever really worked for a normal business. With Orlando Brown, in a relatively short amount of time, whether it's his performances toward the end of the season last year, the moment in the game against the Lions in the preseason, or Sunday's game, we're now spending a lot of time talking about Orlando Brown's performances. And not just once, not just twice, now multiple times. This is now a thing. Now, what is that going to mean for him and the team? He's not getting benched. They have nobody behind him. Fair to wonder who the left tackle is going to be in 2027. But if now it's we've got to design offensive plays around helping Orlando Brown, whether that's having somebody chip, whether that's putting Drew Sample next to him, Eric All, a wide receiver, a running back, whoever it is, that, to me at least, would at least cut into the playbook just a little bit. And so you could talk about it from that standpoint. Does that kind of inhibit what they're doing offensively because they've got to sort of revolve how they play around making sure Orlando Brown's not exposed?
00:55:03
Speaker 2: But also, this is the second game of the season.
00:55:06
Speaker 3: His years-long regression from a pro football focus perspective goes back to 2022. If in week two we're already talking about, gee, Orlando Brown's having a hard time blocking anybody, What is that going to mean for Joe? What is that going to mean for the offense? What is that going to mean for Joe's health? What are we going to be saying about him after five games or 10 games or 15 games? Like this has gone from like, all right, a handful of moments that Orlando did something on the field that made you cringe to now you're watching him, at least I am, with a whole lot of unease. This is now a thing. What we do about it, what the Bengals do about it, I guess, remains to be seen. Your thoughts are always welcome. 513-749-1530, 866-702-3776. 20 after 4 o'clock. We'll throw out a poll question on Twitter here in just a bit. Thanks to Delta Dental. Delta Dental is building healthy, smart, vibrant communities for all. Go to deltadentaloh.com. Brenneman and Jones on baseball is just about 30 minutes away.
00:56:11
Speaker 2: Speaking of baseball... And we didn't get a chance.
00:56:14
Speaker 3: To spend that much time on this yesterday because yesterday was a football show. But Barry Larkin sounds off on the Reds demanding change. I have a question. I'll ask it when we come back. To Carnegie Hall in Newport on ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:56:31
Speaker 7: Cincinnati.
00:56:33
Speaker 2: WCKY Cincinnati. An iHeartRadio station. Guaranteed human. ESPN 1530. iHeartRadio.
00:56:44
Speaker 12: This is Football in the Natty, brought to you by Modern Office Methods on ESPN 1530, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.
00:56:55
Speaker 3: Six after four, this is ESPN 1530. Scott Satterfield talked earlier today. We'll hear that in the 5 o'clock hour as well. We'll do some stuff on the Barry Larkin comments for the postgame show on Sunday. A little bit later on, Reds do play the Braves tonight. Six more games to go in what has been Quite frankly, Sal Stewart, Chase Burns, and Ellie De La Cruz aside, a thoroughly miserable season. But we have folks waiting. And I don't want to make everybody wait. So we'll get to them in the order that we got them. Dave, you're on ESPN 1530.
00:57:25
Speaker 2: Dave, good afternoon.
00:57:26
Speaker 3: How are you?
00:57:27
Speaker 6: So great, Mo. Nothing brings the mood up like when your team is full of optimism and hope. And I'm right there with you.
00:57:39
Speaker 4: It's fun.
00:57:40
Speaker 6: Um, so one thing, uh, I thought you did such a great job, you know, last few weeks, uh, you know, articulating that, that balance of incredible hope and optimism with fear and terror and what, you know, of the, of all the things that happened to us. And I, as someone who's watched way too many movies, I think of movie scenarios. So I was thinking of, um, if you can picture this bangle season as the death star, except not evil, uh, making a lot of people very happy. Duke Tobin, who we could actually talk about as NFL Executive of the Year, except for that one little port entry, which is Orlando Brown.
00:58:21
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:58:22
Speaker 6: So, you know, and we saw that he was flipping a little bit last year, so to not account for that, I mean, they did run through a training camp, but to not, to reward him with a two-year contract, I mean, first of all, is that guaranteed? And then the other thing I'm thinking about, is with all these, uh, quarterbacks going down, is there any trade value to say, uh, Josh Johnson, that's the same, are a really good backup in the, in the training camp, Josh Johnson, or, or do we just roll with them? Hope they make the adjustments because, you know, all it takes is one guy stepping through and hitting Joe the wrong way.
00:58:59
Speaker 4: And the season's over.
00:59:00
Speaker 6: Although, um, uh, Flacco did win a Superbowl with a stout defense.
00:59:05
Speaker 3: He did. I, uh, I don't want to take my chances with that. I, you know, do think it would be interesting if, given the fact that through two weeks we've had so much quarterback carnage and reading today that the Jackson dart injury is maybe a little bit more severe than they anticipated last night, I don't think the Bengals would trade Joe Flacco. I wouldn't trade Joe Flacco. But would somebody want a reliable guy like Josh Johnson to give the Bengals something for it?
00:59:32
Speaker 2: I would imagine.
00:59:33
Speaker 3: That's the sort of thing that if you're Duke Tobin, you would be interested in talking with teams about.
00:59:39
Speaker 2: You're right.
00:59:41
Speaker 3: Duke checks so many boxes this offseason. There were a handful of others that we talked about. Now, so far, it looks like their approach at linebacker has been the right one. Jalen Davis has been tested a lot at slot corner, and so far, he's held up okay. But we also talked a lot about another tackle. Whether it's a guy they draft early and groom, but you're comfortable with playing early, or finding somebody in free agency who's an upgrade from the backups they have right now, they just didn't do it. And so, I think you're right. A part of the Orlando Brown conversation is he's not going anywhere. The leash is really long because you don't trust anybody behind him. And he's under contract for two more years. Yeah, that's the part to me. It's like, you know, right now we're all uber-focused on this year. Hopefully Orlando plays better. But what are they going to do at that position in 2027?
01:00:41
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I think we can keep our fingers crossed that those two guys on the end that he faced last week would do that to anyone possibly. But still, you're right. I mean, the risk is so much.
01:00:56
Speaker 3: It is, and it's like, all right, you know, Will Anderson and Daniil Hunter are both highly paid and really, really good. The Pittsburgh Steelers, for all of their issues, still have T.J.
01:01:07
Speaker 5: Watt.
01:01:07
Speaker 3: They still have Nick Herbig.
01:01:08
Speaker 2: They've applied.
01:01:10
Speaker 3: I don't think many teams in the first two weeks have applied more pressures per opposing pass attempt than the Steelers have. Like, and like at the end of the season last year, when we were, you saw these snapshots of Orlando Brown amid otherwise really good offensive line play to the best of my recollection, those snapshots, you know, it wasn't like he was trying to block guys who are as good as Will Anderson. Then there was the thing in the Lions game in the preseason. Like it's, He's become a deficiency. The only way he changes that is by playing better, but the more you see him not, the more you wonder if he ever will.
01:01:48
Speaker 8: All right.
01:01:49
Speaker 6: Oh, and one last thing, though. I'm out in Oregon, and we have a few Mo Egger enjoyers here, and we call ourselves simply the Moradonians.
01:02:01
Speaker 3: So there's more than you who listens to this show in Oregon?
01:02:06
Speaker 6: Absolutely.
01:02:06
Speaker 4: Wow.
01:02:07
Speaker 2: All right.
01:02:08
Speaker 3: Are we Ducks fans or Beavers fans?
01:02:13
Speaker 6: I'd say Beavers. The Ducks fans are awfully obnoxious, and all I do is give them hell because of the 3,000 fans who showed up for the Peach Bowl last year. You know, I thought that was embarrassing.
01:02:25
Speaker 4: All right, all right.
01:02:27
Speaker 6: We have actually a lot of Bengals fans out here because of TJ and Chad being Beavers.
01:02:33
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. No, that's true. Both in the 2001 draft.
01:02:37
Speaker 3: It's funny because UC played in Corvallis in 2009, and I met a couple who were Bengals fans for that reason. And this is 17 years ago now, have at that point had yet to even go to Cincinnati. So, all right, well, we'll take it. I appreciate the phone call, man.
01:02:51
Speaker 2: Thanks so much.
01:02:51
Speaker 6: Mo, one last thing.
01:02:52
Speaker 2: Yes.
01:02:54
Speaker 6: So, I just have never felt so happy about a fall, an autumn, mainly because of these Bengals. But I got to say, and hopefully you'll talk about it a little more, The UC basketball season and this coach that we got, oh my gosh. I'm an alum there, so no matter what happens with football, I'm prepared for disappointment. But we got the guy. All right, thank you both.
01:03:20
Speaker 3: I agree, Dave. I think they've got the guy as well. We've got the guy, our sports legal expert, Attorney Stewart W. Penrose, next.
01:03:29
Speaker 12: You've been listening to Football in the Natty, brought to you by Kingdom Built Exteriors on ESPN 1530, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.
01:03:41
Speaker 7: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Traffic.
01:03:46
Speaker 11: From the UC Health Traffic Center, blood cancer patients deserve every option under one roof. Find the region's experts at the University of Cincinnati Cancer Center. Call 513-585-UCCC.
01:03:59
Speaker 7: We have the station. ESPN 1530.
01:04:03
Speaker 3: We've got more of your phone calls coming up, plus Brenneman and Jones on baseball. You'll hear Scott Satterfield in the 5 o'clock hour. We'll spend a few minutes on the Barry Larkin comments as well, and plenty more on the Bengals, because it seems like a lot of you have something you want to say about Orlando Brown. On Tuesdays, we chat with our sports legal analyst, attorney Stuart W. Penrose from the Manilo Law Group. And there's actually some pretty interesting cases that are adjacent to sports to talk about what's going on.
01:04:36
Speaker 8: Just living life, Mo, seeing what's going on in the sports legal world and keeping my head above water just like everybody else. How about you?
01:04:43
Speaker 3: The exact same. The exact same. So there's a couple of cases I want to ask you about. One of them involves former Cleveland Guardians closer Emmanuel Classe.
01:04:53
Speaker 2: So his trial.
01:04:54
Speaker 3: Is set for November. He is accused of sharing advanced information about pitches he was going to throw with bettors who then allegedly placed wagers on the result and velocity of the pitches. So prosecutors have identified 18 pitches, including one from a playoff game, that they're going to focus on. And I guess my first reaction was, well, a missed pitch, whether it's a ball, whether it's a pitch that isn't thrown as hard as the pitcher would like, that's kind of a part of the game. Can the defense simply say, look, a ball outside the strike zone or a ball that's not thrown as hard as the pitcher would like, those things are just part of baseball.
01:05:30
Speaker 8: I mean, you would certainly think that that's going to be a focal part of their defense, Mo. You know, I hope this case goes to trial just for the simple fact that it's interesting, you know, and I'd want to see what their defense is. I'd want to see what evidence the government has against him and how a jury would rule on it. But, yes, I mean, baseball is a game of failure. I mean, if you, you know, get a base hit three times and every ten times you go up and that's your career, you're probably going to the Hall of Fame. So, yeah, you would think that would be a focal part of his defense here.
01:06:00
Speaker 3: So, like, I watch hitters all the time. They get mad when a pitcher brushes them back or hits them. And then there's always this, like, you know, well, does the hitter really know that the pitcher was trying to hit him or not? If baseball players can't determine intent, how is intent of a ball being thrown out of the strike zone or not being thrown as fast, how can they prove intent in court?
01:06:23
Speaker 8: Well, the government's got a heavy burden. They've got to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. And you can't analyze his brain to see what his intent was. But, you know, certainly they're going to the first thing is you think there has to be some sort of communications with Emanuel and, you know, whomever he's supposedly working with. You know, what does he say in these communications? What communications tie those 18 pitches together? You know, they're also not saying it's one or two pitches. They're saying it's 18 pitches. Are they going to be able to establish some sort of pattern here with those pitches? It's going to be really interesting to see that. Certainly the timing of various betting, who was betting and, you know, what communications tie that, you know, with Emmanuel. That's how they would get them here is, you know, what circumstantial evidence and direct communications do they have?
01:07:12
Speaker 3: I want to ask you about Keenan Allen, the longtime Charger, is now with the Indianapolis Colts. He's played in Indy's first two games despite his recent arrest for DUI, and now the original misdemeanor charge has been upgraded because his blood alcohol level when he was arrested exceeded.
01:07:30
Speaker 2: 15, and not by.
01:07:32
Speaker 3: A little either,. 224. And so I guess my question is, how does that high a BAC level impair the defense's ability to reach a plea and make this go away for Keenan Allen and the Colts?
01:07:48
Speaker 8: Well,. 224 is a triple the legal limit in most areas. We're. 08 here in Ohio, so sounds like Mr. Allen had a good night before getting arrested, at least. Yeah, it certainly makes negotiating his charges more difficult sometimes. um, cause it's a higher level of culpability, which is why it was, um, increased here. Um, does it do his lawyers have an ability to, you know, challenge the probable cause of the stop?
01:08:15
Speaker 6: Perhaps you would think that.
01:08:17
Speaker 8: Would be the first thing they're going to look into is, you know, whether they can get this thrown out on, you know, perhaps an impermissible stop, but you know, most cases get negotiated all the time. And, you know, if he's somebody with little to no record, you would think there'd be some room for some negotiation, but, um, Yes. I mean, assuming the stop was permissible, the government's got a lot more leverage of him because he blew three times the legal limit. So his ability to.
01:08:43
Speaker 4: Get a deal may not be out the window.
01:08:45
Speaker 8: What that deal may be is likely very different than it would be if it were just a lower-level DUI.
01:08:51
Speaker 3: He is facing a suspension by the NFL, but he has played in the Colts' first two games. The arrest occurred before the season started. Is Is there a legal reasoning for allowing him to play while this case kind of hangs in the balance?
01:09:06
Speaker 8: My first thought on that, Mo, is just look at what the content is. You know, it's not the same thing as a Ray Rice or, you know, a Josh Jacobs, what he has going on. You know, I'm not saying a DUI is not a serious charge. It is, especially when you're three times, you know, the legal limit, allegedly. But we're not talking domestic violence. We're not talking Aaron Hernandez or anything like that here. Doesn't sound like he caused a car accident or injured anybody, thank God. My first thought is perhaps they're looking at the conduct and gives them more of a pause to see how things play out in court than if this were an act of violence.
01:09:43
Speaker 2: Attorney Stewart W.
01:09:44
Speaker 3: Penrose from the Manillo Law Group is our sports legal expert. One more I want to ask you about. So the five major sports leagues in this country, the NFL, the NBA, Major League Baseball, the NHL, and Major League Soccer, and their respective players' unions... are calling on state regulators to ban sports bettors, and sports bettors meaning people who use apps, ban sports bettors who harass players, athletes, coaches, officials, and their families.
01:10:14
Speaker 2: I have lots of questions.
01:10:15
Speaker 3: Where does the line sit between protected free speech, like when you go to a game and yell boo or that a player sucks, and something that's a criminal harassment case?
01:10:26
Speaker 2: What is that line?
01:10:29
Speaker 4: Sure.
01:10:29
Speaker 8: I mean, if you want to complain about a player's performance or a bad call or whatnot and post it on the Internet, you know, that's fair game. But, you know, it becomes a criminal element if you're making credible threats of violence, if you're doxing someone or if there's repeated harassment or you're threatening their family.
01:10:50
Speaker 4: Yes.
01:10:50
Speaker 8: I mean, I think these state commissions are well within their rights to try and ban these people from betting and being part of it.
01:10:59
Speaker 3: So state regulators legally, and I know this varies maybe state to state, maybe it doesn't, but state regulators can legally force a private business to basically fire its own customers?
01:11:10
Speaker 8: In this circumstance, I think so, depending upon how things are written up. I mean, sportsbooks are in the criminal court, you know, first and foremost. I mean, they're regulated by the state that they're in. You know, DraftKings or FanDuel or whom have you wants to operate in the state of Ohio, they need a license from the Ohio Casino Commission. And they can have certain regulations and things that they have to abide by. And certain states, Ohio included, has the ability to stop people from participating in gambling in Ohio-regulated casinos. And you'd assume that that would include online ones as well. So absolutely, states can do this. Absolutely, to their casino commissions.
01:11:52
Speaker 3: So most people, most, when they... harass an athlete or a coach or an official. They do it not using their name, using a burner account. So what is the legal standard of proof required to link a digital message that somebody doesn't have their name attached to a real person's actual gambling account?
01:12:14
Speaker 8: It's hard to say what the exact standard of proof would be. I mean, if it becomes a criminal issue, which is completely separate from, you know, anything the Casino Commission may have where they would ban someone from betting, you know, if it becomes a criminal issue, yes, it would be a reasonable doubt standard. But, you know, the Casino Commission for, you know, the purpose of banning somebody isn't held to that standard. You know, a burner account, I mean, you can still get, you know, track someone's IP records of their device, right? you know, the email address or the phone numbers that they have it up. So there's still ways to, you know, figure out who the person is or at least get a good idea of it. But no, they're not going to be held to a reasonable doubt, you know, criminal case level standard to ban that person. But, you know, it'll be interesting to see how this plays out. I'm sure there's going to be challenges to it. And the courts will have to make some rulings and set some precedent here.
01:13:00
Speaker 2: All right.
01:13:01
Speaker 3: If someone needs the hands-on work of our sports legal expert, how do they get a hold of you?
01:13:08
Speaker 8: They call us at the Manila Law Group, Moe, at 513-723-1600. Auto accidents, that's what I do for a living. DUIs, bankruptcies, give us a call, 513-723-1600. If it's their fault, it's our fight.
01:13:25
Speaker 2: Need a lawyer?
01:13:26
Speaker 3: Call my guy, Stuart, 513-723-1600. He is our sports legal expert attorney, Stuart W. Penrose from the Manila Law Group.
01:13:35
Speaker 2: You're the man. Thanks so much.
01:13:37
Speaker 8: Thank you, Moe.
01:13:37
Speaker 3: 13 away from five o'clock. We're broadcasting from Carnegie Hall in Newport on Mama Street, an unbelievable venue. I'm trying to come up with a reason to hold a big party. I don't want to throw myself a party, but if there's a big milestone or something coming, I would love to have a party here. This place is unbelievable. My daughter is nine years old, so it's going to be decades before she gets married. But if I had an older daughter, And we needed a venue. This would be it. This place is fantastic. Very easy to get to. And we are certainly thrilled to be broadcasting from here. It's Carnegie Hall in Newport.
01:14:19
Speaker 2: And, boy, check it out.
01:14:20
Speaker 3: NewportCarnegie.com. 12 minutes away from 5 o'clock. Brenneman and Jones on baseball is coming up. More of your phone calls ahead, hopefully, as well, on ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
01:14:31
Speaker 7: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530.
01:14:33
Speaker 6: Traffic.
01:14:36
Speaker 11: From the UC Health Draft.
01:14:37
Speaker 3: This is ESPN 1530. If you missed yesterday's Tony and Mo football show, what were you doing?
01:14:43
Speaker 2: Seriously, what were you doing? What was so important?
01:14:46
Speaker 3: Why'd you miss the show? Like, why would you be listening today and not yesterday? I appreciate you listening today.
01:14:51
Speaker 2: Don't get me wrong.
01:14:52
Speaker 3: If you missed it, the good news is we record all the shows and we put them on the internet and they're accessible on the iHeartRadio app. You can also go to my page at ESPN1530.
01:15:01
Speaker 2: Com.
01:15:03
Speaker 3: Awesome stuff, obviously, on the Bengals game, the UC game, lots of NFL stuff, a Kentucky signature win over Texas A & M. All that and more on the iHeartRadio app. Podcasts of this show are a service of Long Necks Sports Grill. More on the Bengals win. We've got to talk about a guy who is beloved for a lot of different reasons, but one of them stood out this weekend. Plus, if your house is on fire and you're in it, do you need someone to tell you your house is on fire? I'll apply that to the Reds very creatively. But first, Brenneman and Jones on baseball.
01:15:37
Speaker 2: Sketch is a lead athlete.
01:15:38
Speaker 7: That is ESPN 1530.
01:15:40
Speaker 4: Uh-oh.
01:15:40
Speaker 7: Oh, yes.
01:15:41
Speaker 2: Guess what day it is. It's Tuesday. Guess what day it is. It's Taco Tuesday. Taco Tuesday!
01:15:49
Speaker 3: See, it's not, though.
01:15:51
Speaker 2: See, I hate to say this.
01:15:52
Speaker 3: It's not Taco Tuesday. It's not Taco Tuesday. Because I made my meat sauce last night for the week. I... I don't like to brag. I really don't because there's nothing for me to brag about. I'm a man of limited talent, skill, looks. Don't have the great body. I mean, there's just not a lot of there and there. But you know what I am good at? Cooking.
01:16:18
Speaker 2: Meat sauce.
01:16:20
Speaker 3: And so I've been craving my meats, not like some jabroni's meat sauce. By the way, first time I've ever used the word jabroni on the air. So I got home later last night, and I thought, I'm making meat sauce, and I'm going to have it on Tuesday because there's nothing better than meat sauce that's been sitting there for a while. I make the greatest meat sauce ever. Mike, I'll bring you some meat sauce one day. Do a little veal-pork-beef blend. So no tacos tonight, meat sauce.
01:16:48
Speaker 2: But it's a good idea. I like tacos.
01:16:49
Speaker 3: I like tacos for lunch, actually. But meat sauce tonight at the Egger Establishment.
01:16:57
Speaker 2: I'm Mo Egger.
01:16:58
Speaker 3: This is ESPN 1530. Thanks for listening to the show. That's probably the most interesting part of today's show is me talking about meat sauce. We are broadcasting from a really, really cool venue. This is the Carnegie Hall at Newport, and it's on Mama Street, and it's just down the street from the levee. Very easy to get to. It could be a wedding. It could be a big milestone party. It could be like a retirement party for one of your colleagues or Maybe you just want to get together with your friends in a venue that you ran out.
01:17:30
Speaker 2: This is awesome.
01:17:32
Speaker 3: I cannot encourage you enough to go to NewportCarnegie.com and just look at it. We love this place, and it's been really nice to get a chance to spend time here. Carnegie Hall at Newport. This is under the Delightmore umbrella. Our friends at Delightmore also run Mercantile Immersive, and they're having a huge Bengal Steelers watch party on Sunday. Tickets are available for that. And you'll not just watch the game on TV. Like you'll be like, you'll feel like you're at, I was going to say Heinz stadium. It's not Heinz stadium anymore. Heinz field. You're going to feel like you're in Pittsburgh without being what better. You don't have to go to Pittsburgh, but you'll feel like you're there. If you go to the Bengals watch party at mercantile immersive, you can learn more about that at mercantile immersive.com slash tickets. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to take a phone call to start the hour. We are going to spend some time on Barry Larkin and his comments about the Reds and what I thought was the best part of Jamar Chase's catch on Sunday. And the real season now is set to begin for the UC Bearcats and Scott Satterfield. You'll hear from him in just about 25 minutes. But Ron in Milford has been hanging on. Ron, you're on ESPN 1530. Ron, good afternoon.
01:18:47
Speaker 2: How are you?
01:18:47
Speaker 6: I'm okay, man.
01:18:50
Speaker 4: I got a couple quick things on the Bengals. First of all, you know, everyone says how great the defense was, but it seemed more like bend but not break. I mean, they gave up 400-plus yards.
01:19:03
Speaker 3: They gave up six points.
01:19:06
Speaker 4: I know, and that's Lou Anarumo. It's all about the points, which is good, but I'm just concerned in the fact that you're not going to give up 400 yards every week and give up only six points. You know what I mean?
01:19:19
Speaker 2: Yeah.
01:19:20
Speaker 3: What I love most about the defensive performance is when the Bengals had the field position edge early in the game, that defensively they didn't allow Houston to kind of get out from the shadow.
01:19:31
Speaker 2: Of their own. Right.
01:19:33
Speaker 4: They didn't give them any momentum.
01:19:34
Speaker 6: Yeah.
01:19:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I mean, Tampa Bay in the first game, it's not like they didn't move the football. It's not like the Texans. Texans had 10 more first downs in the game. But, you know, you saw a defense that closed. You saw a defense that was better on third down. You saw a defense that accumulated 41 pressures. You saw a defense that got a huge stop on fourth and inches. I walked away from it pretty pleased with how they played.
01:20:06
Speaker 4: The middle-of-the-field Mo's killing us, and, you know, Friar Moose owns the Bengals, I feel like, most of the time, and that's what's just concerning is, like, the middle-of-the-field, like, you know, receivers that Schultz with 144 yards receiving. Now, mind you, they had no other weapons, we know, but middle-of-the-field, too wide open, I feel like.
01:20:28
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the middle of the field is wide open, and there's a long track record of tight ends having big games against the Bengals, including Friar Muth, who's had, I think he's had a nine-catch game against Cincinnati. He's had an eight-catch game against Cincinnati. He had the catch that would have won the game for Pittsburgh last year, if not for the last second. uh, miracle by, by Joe Flacco and T Higgins and Dalton Schultz. And, you know, you're right without Nico Collins, they were going to focus on him a little bit more because they just simply don't have a ton of weapons. They had no answer for Dalton Schultz. Uh, and that is, that is concerning when you think ahead to Sunday.
01:21:07
Speaker 4: Yeah. And then Mo, I, you know, your boy, you're right.
01:21:11
Speaker 2: Mims.
01:21:12
Speaker 4: I mean, he just owning people, but on the other side, uh, You.
01:21:17
Speaker 8: Know, T.J.
01:21:18
Speaker 4: Watt usually, I feel, lines up against Mims, and Mims would own him, but there's no reason that they're going to do that this week. I feel like T.J. Watt's just going to try to own Orlando Brown, and if not, they got Highsmith, and Highsmith's got two sacks also already. So, I mean, between the two of them, they're going to be lining up, I guess, I feel like a majority of the time against Orlando Brown because, let's face it, I mean, he even admitted he had a bad game.
01:21:47
Speaker 3: Well, the film doesn't lie, and I would be livid if I was a Pittsburgh Steelers fan, and the game starts, and they play a series or two, and T.J. Watt hasn't lined up opposite Orlando Brown. I really, you know, I thought the offensive line as a whole could have had a better game, but the guy, Amarius Mims, was awesome. the guy who stood out was Orlando Brown and it's, it's Alex Highsmith. It's Nick Herbig. You know, it's still Cameron, Cam Hayward up the middle, but yeah, I mean, I, I don't know how, if, if, if you're game planning against the Bengals and you have TJ Watt in your back pocket, I don't know how you watch the tape of Orlando Brown and Amarius Mims and don't figure out a way to put your best guy opposite Cincinnati's weakest guy. And right now it's pretty obvious who that is.
01:22:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, and Mo, I mean, Gusecki, did he have a target even in this game?
01:22:49
Speaker 3: Don't believe he did.
01:22:53
Speaker 4: If he had one, he had one only. I mean, they need to, like, I would feel like, just based on the Steelers, they're going to try to take some things away. They're not going to be able to take everything away, but, like, you've got to work Gusecki in the gameplay, I feel, some more. And, you know, again.
01:23:12
Speaker 4: Hopefully have Drew Sample over there on the left side to crack on whoever's over there because I just don't feel it, though, with Orlando Brown. I don't know. I know everyone's banging him, but he's banging himself, too. He realizes, and maybe he'll come out better this week because he realized himself that he was terrible.
01:23:32
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, I don't know how he could admit or acknowledge anything different. The Kosicki thing is interesting to me because if Joey Porter Jr. doesn't play, then, you know, I'm not going to lie to you. The guy that I'm going to start with isn't the tight end. And Mike Kosicki had a terrific game against Tampa Bay, and Jamar Chase was quiet. Jamar Chase and T. Higgins were a little more productive, and Mike Kosicki was quiet. Jamar Chase had an otherworldly game against Pittsburgh here last year, had a quieter game in the game up there. As much as we all like Mike Gesicki, I don't know that especially if Pittsburgh is without their top cover guy, I don't know that he's the guy that I'm going to try to feed first. I love what they did with Jamar Chase this past Sunday, which was they emphasized him, and I think the way Houston played defense was a response to how good Gesicki was in the first game. And then Cincinnati's response to that was, cool, you took away Mike Gesicki, great work.
01:24:38
Speaker 2: Here's T.
01:24:38
Speaker 3: Higgins continuing to move the chains, and here's Jamar Chase. So that, to me, is the great nature of this offense. There are probably going to be weeks, if they get going, where you look at the box score and go, this guy didn't get targeted. And sometimes that guy's going to be Jamar Chase. Sometimes that guy's going to be Mike Gesicki. And sometimes that guy might be, I don't know, T. Higgins or somebody else. I think the wealth of weapons they have is going to be capable of helping them overcome a quiet game by a guy that you would expect to normally be productive.
01:25:16
Speaker 4: I agree, Mo, and I think they also need to, when they are running the ball effectively, keep running it. I feel like Zach doesn't call games very well, and I think that's part of the problem so far this year is you know, we're not getting any consistency because when something works, we go away from it. I mean, run the ball because that also is going to protect our boy Orlando Brown and most importantly, our most valuable asset, which as we know is Joe Burrow. Run the ball and when it's working, stay with it.
01:25:52
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, Chase Brown's an eighth in the NFL in carries. I mean, they carried the ball 20 times last week. That's a workable number for me. I think they They had 23 rushing attempts and 31 passes. I'll go with that.
01:26:05
Speaker 2: I think.
01:26:08
Speaker 3: That is on a week-to-week basis an achievable balance. I think over the first two games of the season, they have been relatively committed to the run.
01:26:19
Speaker 4: Yeah, I guess that's why we're working under center more, which makes sense. I say just do what you can to keep Joe upright and healthy and You know, we'll see that the Steelers still have a challenging defense. I don't know that they have much on offense. That's why, you know, I feel like trying to clamp down on the middle of the field is going to be good. And Aaron Rodgers, let's face it, he's old. If we have the same pass rush we've had the last two weeks, we're going to get at least four sacks again, I would say.
01:26:51
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, he is, and I appreciate the phone call as always, man.
01:26:54
Speaker 2: He's a statue. You know, he can't move.
01:26:58
Speaker 3: And Pittsburgh's offensive line isn't awesome. Boy, if I was a Steelers fan, that's what I would be thinking about most. If Porter doesn't play because he's, quote, hurt, you know, what is that going to mean for Jamar and T? And how do we protect our quarterback who's 42 years old and moves like me? Bengals have 50 rush attempts through the first two games. So that's 25 per. They had 23 in the first game, 27 in the second. They played from ahead in the first game. But if you think of that game against the Buccaneers, what I loved about it was when it was time for them to salt it away, they passed. The balance they're working with right now, I think, is fine. What I loved about the Jamar Chase catch, maybe more than anything, is we've talked so much about them under center. and all the wealth of weapons they have, and running the ball more effectively, as awesome as the catch was, and Jamar Chase is an awesome player, as ridiculous as the catch itself was, to me it was a simple reminder, we still have this in our back pocket. This might not end up being as central to who we are offensively as it was five years ago, But we still have effort. Jamar's down there somewhere. I'll throw it to him. We still have that in our back pocket. So yes, we want to run under center and run the ball more effectively. And we have a lot of different things we could do with all the players we have. But we could still get you downfield because we've got a dude in number one who could do things that very, very few others in the NFL can. It is 18 after five o'clock. All right, we'll spend a few minutes on the Barry Larkin comments that we, because it was a football show yesterday, really didn't get a chance to spend time on. We'll do that next on ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
01:28:57
Speaker 7: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530.
01:29:00
Speaker 8: Traffic.
01:29:01
Speaker 12: Football in the natty. Brought to you in part by Skyline Chili on ESPN 1530. The official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.
01:29:12
Speaker 3: 25 after 5 o'clock. This is ESPN 1530. Bengals-Steelers Sunday at 1. Live on ESPN 1530. Pre-game coverage beginning at 9.05. Joe Burrow will talk tomorrow. We'll have that for you live at 3.15. And maybe he'll update us on his back and his rib.
01:29:30
Speaker 2: His rib. That's an issue now. The rib.
01:29:33
Speaker 3: According to Joe Burrow, mic'd up. Go find that for yourself on the internet. So we did a football show yesterday. It was a show mostly about football, obviously. So we didn't get a chance to spend time on what went viral on Sunday, which was as soon as the Reds game ended, their final home game of the season, they got crushed by the Chicago Cubs. Barry Larkin, the Hall of Famer, does the home TV broadcast with John Sadak, had some pretty pointed comments. I'm going to guess you have heard these already, but for the sake of providing proper context, here's Barry on Sunday.
01:30:13
Speaker 13: Well, John, I think a fitting end to a disappointing season, at least here in Cincinnati. I think all the fans believed that this was going to be a much, much better year I thought they believed that, as did we. We talked this offseason about playoff aspirations, getting back where we were last year.
01:30:36
Speaker 2: And it just never, ever happened.
01:30:39
Speaker 10: I think these last three weeks of baseball, playing against some of the better teams that are going to be going to the postseason, really illustrates how far we are behind at this big league level.
01:30:51
Speaker 14: And change has to happen. This city deserves better. than that and I know every player down there feels that but something has to give we have to get better because we are so so far behind.
01:31:08
Speaker 3: That's Barry Larkin on Reds TV on Sunday and I didn't hear a syllable of that that was inaccurate and like Barry's words carry weight yes because he's a Hall of Famer but also like He watches this up close. He has a role when it comes to player development in the organization during spring training. He's been doing the games for a while. He is also like, this isn't some guy on the radio. This isn't a talk show host like me. This is a guy who is, I think, always been, since he assumed the role of TV analyst now six years ago, measured in his commentary, measured in his criticism, certainly willing to point out things that he sees that he doesn't like or that a Reds player is doing wrong. But in six years, I think this is the first time that I recall him saying something really emphatic. And this is a moment that I think deserves saying something really emphatic because this season represents total failure.
01:32:16
Speaker 2: This season.
01:32:17
Speaker 3: kind of felt like it was going to be the culmination of years of buildup, and it's ended up being a flop. You know, this isn't some hot take artist who just says crazy things.
01:32:27
Speaker 2: Like, there was some thought put behind that.
01:32:30
Speaker 3: And it was a fair assessment, and I also think a direct reflection of how the last few weeks have unfolded, where the Reds have played a lot of games where they have looked like the junior varsity versus the varsity. Like, it wasn't, you know, them losing some tight games or, You know, them getting beaten by, you know, one or two runs to the Pirates or, you know, the Mets or something. It was like measuring stick teams. L.A., Chicago, Milwaukee, like measuring stick teams. Teams the Reds should be trying, at least, to be as good as. So good for him for saying it. And, yeah, like his words carry weight. If another former player says that and no other former player beyond the ones who are on TV and radio have that platform, it's maybe not the same. And then when you have Joey Votto retweeting the audio and sort of putting his stamp of approval on it, well, Joey's words carry some weight for what it's worth. So good for Barry for saying it. Good for Barry for saying it. But Like many have said, well, you know, those are the sort of things that should reverberate in the halls of Great American Ballpark.
01:33:43
Speaker 2: And maybe they will.
01:33:44
Speaker 3: Maybe Barry Larkin offering some very fair and measured commentary about the state of the team and what has to happen next, maybe that triggers change. But if you heard that or you hear it through the prism of, well, this will be what changes things, then things are already broken. Like, if your house is on fire and you're in it, do you need somebody to come tell you your house is on fire? I would like to think the answer is no.
01:34:15
Speaker 2: I wouldn't.
01:34:16
Speaker 3: Hey, my house is on fire. I better do something about it. The Reds have access to standings, right? They have access to the scoreboard. They have access to what their record is. They have access to their attendance totals, which, for what it's worth, attendance on a game-to-game basis... is down by more than 2,000 fans from last year to this year. They have access to all that information. They know how long Nick Kroll has been in his current capacity. They know how long it's been since the Reds won anything of any real consequence. They hear and are aware of the things being said about them by fans who are pissed and who are insanely impatient. They're aware of all these things. I would like to think they are aware of all those things enough to at least do some self-reflection and at the end of it go, you know what, some changes are necessary. I would love to think, as much as I deeply appreciate Barry Larkin, my all-time favorite player, for saying something that is on everybody's mind. for saying something passionately, for saying something that was fair. He didn't take shots at anybody. He didn't make it personal. It was a direct commentary that was reflective of the team's performance this season and over the last couple of weeks. And maybe it will ignite change. But if the Reds needed that in order for them to go, huh, maybe we should do something different then this franchise is more screwed than we already thought. Quite honestly, then it's more screwed than if they needed Barry Larkin to say that on their television network. For them to go, oh, yeah, you know what? Maybe we should do something different. Maybe we shouldn't maintain the status quo. Then what have they been doing this entire time? They have access to scoreboards. They can watch the games. They can see the product. They know the attendance totals. They can feel and hear the vibe. They can listen to talk radio. They can go on social media. They have access to scoreboards. They know what their record is. They know for how long fans have been waiting. They know what their record was last year, which it wasn't that good. They know what their record was two years ago was bad. They know how they failed in 2023 with a team that could have gotten to the postseason, but a guy in charge of the baseball operations who didn't get those extra pieces needed at the deadline. They know how bad they've been for how long. They know how long they've been bad for. They need Barry Larkin to tell them, hey, you guys should probably look at doing something different. If so, then they're in worse shape than most of us already believed. If your house is on fire, if you need somebody to tell your house is on fire, dude, what are you doing? The Reds are on fire. Attendance is down. They're probably not going to lose 90 games, but they could. They're going to finish with something like, I don't know, 87, 88 losses. I have been rooting for this team for a long time. I've been talking about this team for 19 years. I have spent a career listening to exasperated Reds fans. I've never heard anything like this year. And at times, it's crossed over into apathy. Your team is an afterthought in September for what feels like the 50th time over the last 30 years, which is mathematically impossible. You need Barry Larkin to tell you changes are necessary? You should know that based on having watched the team play, having looked at the standings, having watched the team over a long stretch of time. So, yeah, man, good for Barry for saying it.
01:37:48
Speaker 2: Good.
01:37:49
Speaker 3: I nodded along. And his words carry a lot of weight with fans. And sure, his words should reverberate inside the hallways of GABP. But if it takes Barry Larkin saying something on television for them to veer in a different direction, really, then they're more screwed than I think we already thought they were. The problem is, I think we already think they're screwed. We've already heard status quo is going to remain. We've heard status quo is going to be the rule for 2027. And I don't believe that what Barry said is going to pivot them in a different direction.
01:38:29
Speaker 2: I don't know, man.
01:38:30
Speaker 3: I appreciated it. I thought it was great. I wish there was more of it. But if that's what triggers change, okay, be happy that change is going to come. But really, you needed Barry Larkin to be the guy to ignite change, 25 from 6. The UC season really begins on Saturday. Scott Satterfield next.
01:38:50
Speaker 12: You've been listening to Football in the Natty on ESPN 1530, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals.
01:39:00
Speaker 7: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Traffic.
01:39:05
Speaker 11: From the UC Health Traffic Center, Blood Kent.
01:39:07
Speaker 3: A question on Twitter, thanks to my friends and yours, hopefully, at United Heartland Insurance. I have no idea what you're paying for insurance. But I do know this, whatever you're paying for insurance, my guys at United Heartland Insurance can help you pay a heck of a lot less and like on pretty much everything that you could need insured, whatever it is. So make sure you check out UHINS.com and see how those folks can help you pay a lot less for insurance. What is your level of concern about the quality of play that Bengals are getting from the left tackle position? Vote now at Mo Egger. Very, some, or none. Right now, 0% have voted none. But the voting is early.
01:39:50
Speaker 2: We will see.
01:39:51
Speaker 3: Vote now at Mo Egger. We've been obviously heavy on the Bengals and a little with the Reds. You see that the battle for the victory bell on Saturday was a tremendously entertaining football game. Now, from a Bearcat perspective, if you were looking at that game through the lens of what does it mean for Big 12 play, probably weren't thrilled with how they played. If you were looking at it through the lens of just make sure you keep the bell well, then I guess a smashing success. I think you could do both as a Bearcat fan. I want UC and Miami to play, and I know they're not going to play every single year, but if there can be a way forward for UC to host Miami on a somewhat regular basis, which Chuck Martin has said, like, dude, you're going to pay somebody to come play, pay us. I would love for that to happen, but in the absence of a game scheduled, nothing against Miami football, nothing against Chuck Martin. Just as a Bearcat fan, I didn't want to lose the last game in the series for a while. So Bearcats hang on to the bell. They did some things defensively in the second half that I thought were very impressive. Cole Tabb was awesome running the football. But now it's Big 12 play. It's a very fun-to-watch quarterback in Avery Johnson. The season now begins for the Bearcats. Nothing against Boston College or Miami. UC was favored to beat both. Obviously heavily favored to beat Western Carolina. Ultimately, what was going to determine how successful the season is is how they do in the Big 12. They're six and a half point dogs against Kansas State. They're going to be underdogs on the road against Arizona. They're going to be underdogs on the road against West Virginia. They're going to be underdogs at home against Texas Tech. They will probably be home favorites against Colorado. We'll see about Iowa State, but that is a road game. Not going to be that many more games where they're laying points. This is one that they have to win, quite frankly. And if they do, then maybe some interest and some buzz starts to snowball a little bit. But I think most fans have been sitting on their hands for the first three weeks just waiting to see two things. A, if they get off to a good start, will things implode in November? And B, what level of competitiveness do they demonstrate in the Big 12? We'll start to find out on Sunday. They need better play from J.C.
01:42:10
Speaker 9: French.
01:42:11
Speaker 3: I think they need a quarterback who's a little bit more willing to let it fly. I know they have recruited him and have coached him to not make a lot of mistakes, but boy, there were times against Miami where it felt like he held onto the ball way too long. Here's Scott Satterfield earlier today talking about how good his team has been so far this season at finishing games.
01:42:35
Speaker 15: Obviously, the goal is to start fast and finish strong. Both halves, but Um, you know, I think in the BC game, we came out pretty good in the first half, you know, um, you're right. The last two games, the second half has been much better. I think, um, you certainly want to finish. We, we talked a lot in the off season about finishing. Um, and you want to finish these games off and, and, and, and the way we have the last two weeks has been, been awesome.
01:43:00
Speaker 2: But, um, yeah, but you got it, but you do have to start better.
01:43:03
Speaker 15: Uh, I think, um, it's not, not something that, that we talk about as far as not, not starting great.
01:43:09
Speaker 4: I mean, we want to start great.
01:43:10
Speaker 15: I mean, But it's just something that coincidence happened last week. You know, they made some great plays. We obviously didn't. And they took advantage of that. I mean, they made some great catches on the sideline, some one-handed catches, some over-the-shoulder catches. I think the quarterback played really good for them. Defensively, they did a great job of, you know, slowing that running game down early in the game. So there's a lot of things they did positive that we didn't. But, you know, to our credit, we kept playing and obviously played way better in the second half, gave it three points in the second half and scored 28. I mean, it really was a tale of two halves. But, yeah, we certainly got a team like, hey, from this point forward, you can't start like that.
01:43:50
Speaker 2: I mean, it will not end good for us.
01:43:52
Speaker 15: So we've got to come out and play much better early in the game at the same time finishing in the second half.
01:43:58
Speaker 3: Looked a little shell-shocked after Miami brought the opening kickoff back, and what I didn't understand was I just felt like offensively they got away early in the game from what they're supposed to be, which is a good running team behind the left side of that offensive line. UC and Kansas State on Saturday night at 7 p.m.
01:44:15
Speaker 4: 513-749-1530.
01:44:16
Speaker 3: We thank everybody who has.
01:44:17
Speaker 2: Chimed in today. Mike, go ahead. You're on ESPN 1530.
01:44:25
Speaker 4: Thank you very much, Mo. Appreciate it. How's everybody at home?
01:44:28
Speaker 2: Everybody's well. Thank you for asking.
01:44:30
Speaker 4: Cool. No more snakes?
01:44:33
Speaker 2: No more snakes. No.
01:44:35
Speaker 3: So far, knock on wood, no more snakes.
01:44:37
Speaker 4: That was rude. I shouldn't have brought that up. I'm sorry.
01:44:40
Speaker 8: I apologize.
01:44:42
Speaker 4: Hey, congratulations to UK and UofL and everybody locally here. What a tremendous weekend for everybody, except the.
01:44:51
Speaker 2: Reds, of course.
01:44:52
Speaker 3: Louisville's good, and Will Stein, the Will Stein era. There was a chunk of that Alabama game where they were out playing the Crimson Tide, but then to go on the road and beat Texas A & M the way they did, that is a signature win, at least to this stage, of the Will Stein era in Lexington.
01:45:09
Speaker 4: I kind of did some history on that guy, and he's pretty impressive, and he's bringing a different swag down there, don't you think?
01:45:16
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, without question.
01:45:18
Speaker 3: Yes, when he said at SEC Media Days when he was asked, you know, the reason why Kentucky was going to get things turned around, and he said me, and I'm paraphrasing him here.
01:45:26
Speaker 2: I thought that was awesome.
01:45:28
Speaker 4: I love that. I got a question for you. Now, in your opinion, I haven't been– able to really focus on all the players on our new defense. But I did hear Rex Ryan say the other morning, you might have heard it on ESPN, he said he was just raving about Sexy Dexy. And he said, you know what? Dexter Lawrence eats tackles and guards like he eats cheeseburgers. He said this guy is, if they'd have just gotten him, he said, they would be a quantum leap better. Couldn't praise him enough.
01:46:07
Speaker 2: It was pretty cool.
01:46:08
Speaker 3: I think the great thing about it is, Mike, Dexter Lawrence, we've seen his effect, right? He's being double-teamed.
01:46:16
Speaker 2: He's making plays.
01:46:18
Speaker 3: The play he made on fourth and inches on Sunday was the best defensive play a Bengals player has made this season, but you're also seeing a lot of depth around him. You know, Cash is hell. How many Bengals rookies on defense have made an instant impact? Boye Moffay is giving the Bengals everything they paid for him to give. Cedric Johnson. Jonathan Allen had five pressures on Sunday, which I think they expected, but because he kind of exists in the shadow of Dexter Lawrence, he kind of gets forgotten. Chris Jenkins for the second consecutive week had an impact. Shamar Stewart had a sack in the game. It's two things. It's Dexter Lawrence... being what they thought he was going to be, but it's also a lot of other guys benefiting from it, but also giving the Bengals what they thought they were going to get from those guys individually.
01:47:06
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just, I've heard people calling in and go, well, what about this? What about that?
01:47:11
Speaker 8: Well, what about what?
01:47:13
Speaker 4: You've got an excellent team that turned it around in a year. Just revel in all of it, you knuckleheads. I don't get it, but anyway. What is your opinion of the two linebackers at this point in the season?
01:47:27
Speaker 2: So far, they haven't stood out for screwing up.
01:47:31
Speaker 4: Do you think they would bring Cassius Howell in there, or is it too early?
01:47:35
Speaker 3: To play linebacker?
01:47:37
Speaker 2: Yeah.
01:47:38
Speaker 3: I think they are more content with the production they're getting from him on the edge.
01:47:43
Speaker 4: Okay. You're always good at these trivia questions. Can I hit you with one real quick?
01:47:48
Speaker 2: Don't have a ton of time, but okay.
01:47:50
Speaker 3: Okay.
01:47:50
Speaker 4: Okay. Fastest 10 MLB players to reach 300 based on games played, not at bats.
01:47:59
Speaker 2: 300 home runs?
01:48:01
Speaker 4: They're all in your lifetime except two, maybe.
01:48:07
Speaker 3: To get to 300 home runs?
01:48:09
Speaker 4: Yes, sir.
01:48:11
Speaker 2: Judge?
01:48:13
Speaker 4: Yes, number one.
01:48:16
Speaker 5: A-Rod?
01:48:18
Speaker 4: He's fourth.
01:48:23
Speaker 3: Pete Alonzo?
01:48:25
Speaker 4: Pete Alonzo, he was 10th. That's why I'm asking, because he made such a big deal out of it the other day.
01:48:33
Speaker 2: My lifetime? Mark McGuire?
01:48:40
Speaker 4: Yes, sir. And I got a real good stat on him.
01:48:43
Speaker 2: Otani?
01:48:44
Speaker 4: I'll just give it to you. Otani, yes, sir. Number eight, I believe.
01:48:49
Speaker 2: Okay. All right. Give me the rest quickly.
01:48:53
Speaker 4: Okay. Judge Ralph Kiner back in the day. Ryan Howard.
01:48:57
Speaker 2: Oh.
01:48:59
Speaker 8: Yeah.
01:49:00
Speaker 4: Ryan Howard, that big monster. Yeah. A-Rod, Giancarlo Stanton, McGuire, Jose Gonzalez.
01:49:07
Speaker 2: Oh, yeah.
01:49:08
Speaker 4: Harmington. Jose Gonzalez, Harmon, Killebrew, Ohtani, and then Alonzo. But which guy has the most home runs per at-bat in their career?
01:49:19
Speaker 2: I didn't know this.
01:49:21
Speaker 3: Nope.
01:49:21
Speaker 4: Mark McGuire, 10.61 at-bats per home run. All right.
01:49:26
Speaker 2: That's good stuff.
01:49:27
Speaker 3: Mike, I've got to run, man. We've got to go. I appreciate the time. As always, we thank our friends at NewportCarnegie.com, Carnegie Hall here in Newport. And make sure you look at the Mercantile Immersive website to learn about the Bengals Watch Party on Sunday. We're back in the studio tomorrow. Thanks to Mike Mills producing on site. Taryn Bland back in Kenwood. Have a great night. This is ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
01:49:51
Speaker 7: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Traffic.
01:49:56
Speaker 11: From the UC Health Traffic Center, blood cancer patients deserve every option under one roof. Find the region's experts at the University of Cincinnati Cancer Center.
01:50:05
Speaker 2: Call 513-585-UCCC. Heavy pockets of traffic.
