00:00:01
Speaker 1: The Bengals storm into the Steel City, looking to pitch Pittsburgh into the recycling bin. Just saying the word Pittsburgh makes me want to puke. The Bengals slug it out with the Steelers. Sunday, coverage begins at 9 a.m. Stream for free on the new and improved iHeartRadio app or on ESPN 1530, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals. It's the Bengals and Steelers.
00:00:30
Speaker 2: I'll be the Bengals and Steelers on Sunday. What's up? Good afternoon.
00:00:33
Speaker 3: I'm Mo Egger. This is ESPN 1530. Thank you very much for listening. I hope you're having an awesome Tuesday afternoon. Speaking of awesome, we're in an awesome place right now. The Carnegie Hall in Newport.
00:00:45
Speaker 2: Check this place out.
00:00:46
Speaker 3: NewportCarnegie.com. One of the best event venues you will ever see. I'm not having another wedding, ever. I mean, my daughter might get married one day. I guess I'll have to foot the bill for that. But if I have any say, this place here is where we're going to be doing that. You could have the wedding here. You could have the reception here. You could also host a radio show if you want, if you have one. I'm lucky enough that I do. So we're here at the Carnegie Hall in Newport. This event venue, part of the folks at Delightmore, they have a series of awesome venues all throughout the greater Cincinnati area. Last week, we were lucky enough to be at Mercantile Immersive, where, by the way, they will have a Bengals Steelers watch party on Sunday. You can learn more about that at mercantileimmersive.com. Today, though, we're across the river in Newport at Carnegie Hall, and a great day to be here. Love this place. And, of course, our guy Paul Daner Jr. is here from the Athletic and the Growler podcast on the Bengals.
00:01:44
Speaker 2: How's it going? I'm doing great. How are you doing? I'm well. I'm well. They're 2-0. Everybody's happy. The vibes are good.
00:01:51
Speaker 3: The vibes are good.
00:01:52
Speaker 2: It's hard to... We've seen the opposite side of the vibes after two games. I did a... I'm sure we'll talk plenty about Pittsburgh, but I did a little interview with our athletic Pittsburgh writer earlier today. The vibe's not so good there. And I was like, this is... Hearing him, I was like, this is familiar. This is the feeling that I'm used to hearing and seeing around Pittsburgh. two games where you start to question how will a lot of people survive said season and you can feel that. So it was a good reminder of just how far this team has come to not be feeling the way that they're feeling in Pittsburgh.
00:02:33
Speaker 3: I went on a Pittsburgh sports talk radio show. earlier this afternoon, and I just randomly said, I'm enjoying watching the Joey Porter Jr.
00:02:41
Speaker 2: Stuff play out. Yes.
00:02:43
Speaker 3: And I said, I know firsthand the goldmine that this could be for you guys, but it is nice to watch another city have to wrestle with something like that.
00:02:52
Speaker 2: Yeah. Every time I would open my athletic app, because I follow a lot of people, but the AFC North, all of them, and I would see a story about the latest... As the world turns with Joey Porter Jr., I would smile every time. He'd be like, for once, it's not me. Just happy it's not me having to do this.
00:03:11
Speaker 3: You know how sometimes if there was like a company will have some sort of emergency crisis and they'll fly in a specialist to sort of handle it, consult? You could do that for the athletic in cities where there's a holdout or a hold-in or some sort of contract issue.
00:03:27
Speaker 2: You could sort of consult. the staff on how to handle something like that. Ownership distraction consultant.
00:03:32
Speaker 4: Yes.
00:03:33
Speaker 2: That could be your thing. Maybe I could be a consultant with the players. Have you considered holding your own press conference on the side of a practice field? Seen it, had its ups and downs there, but I think inevitably this might work for you.
00:03:47
Speaker 3: In the athletic, I notice now I get a little game scoreboard thing.
00:03:53
Speaker 2: On my phone for the teams that I follow. You do? Yeah. You in charge of that? I am not on the tech side. Okay, gotcha. No, those little game bugs are nice, though, actually. You can hop in there, and I'll go in there and drop some stuff into the chat and take questions at the game every once in a while, like at inactives, and then during the game I'll drop in there, too. So you can chat, you can see stuff. I like those. I kind of like the little bugs that you can follow. So I could ask you questions during the game that you're covering? I mean, you could. I don't, like, I mean, I'd rather you didn't. Okay. Fair. Fine. Me. Yeah. Yeah. Others. Others. I'm fine.
00:04:30
Speaker 3: Wait, wait until Tuesday for my question.
00:04:32
Speaker 2: Yeah. You have a whole hour. Okay. I mean, but you know, or just text me, here's what I'm starting with. Okay. Okay.
00:04:37
Speaker 3: Should I put a hundred dollars on cash as how at plus three 30 to be defensive rookie of the year?
00:04:45
Speaker 2: Because this is the guy that I want to talk about the most. Yeah. Yeah. I, it's a great, it's a great value. Um, When you talk about when we start adding up these pressures, when we start adding up what this defense theoretically can do, if what they've started with continues on this pace. Waves. Waves. I know. I had to go one more time. I had to go all the way in. I'm like, how far can I take this? You took it far. To real far. But my thing is, the Bengals' defense, in regards to your betting situation, The Bengals' defense, if it becomes a thing, I mean, the way people are talking about it is going to be such a narrative driver of, oh, my gosh, it's so different. What made it so different? They'll start with Dexter Lawrence, and then if you have Cassius Howell with, I mean, what's he on pace for? 60 pressures and 8 to 10 sags? He's going to be in that conversation. And at plus 330, yeah, I mean, it's hard not to like him. I just, they have, if you look, I was filtering out the second half because like man these second halves they have just been monsters getting after playing with this lead and partially it is very situational it's they've had them in in clear drop back situations with cj and with baker mayfield the week before um but cassius has the most pass rush snaps in the second half for the bangles this year they've given him the most opportunities and he's delivered his pressure rates are high he's he amazingly doesn't have credit for Sack yet, I guess, but he's been the creator of probably half of them, it feels like, just back there forcing the quarterback off his spot. His are going to come. He's just, you know, if they're going to be playing with leads a bunch and playing like this, he seems to be really, really living up to it.
00:06:38
Speaker 3: It's just nice to have an early draft pick who plays defense, who's contributing in year one, because they haven't had any of that.
00:06:47
Speaker 2: Well, Contributing positively. Yeah, contributing positively.
00:06:52
Speaker 3: But, like, Tony and I talked about him yesterday where he's like, you know, if you focus in on him, a lot of guys come from college and, like, good players. First-round picks. They have, like, one or two moves. And then they get here and they need more. Cassius Howell looks like he's got the full bag.
00:07:10
Speaker 2: Al Golden was talking about him in that regard yesterday. He said he's got three. He's, like, he's got speed. He's got, I guess it's whatever, the dip. Mm-hmm. it's called the ghost move you can call a number of different things i just call it teleporting to the quarterback um but and and a counter off of that and when you have three different things you can go to with the with where he's coming from and there'll be more tape out on him i don't think it's going to continue to be i'm not going to say easy but i i think it'll get harder for him but he's got he's got plenty in his bag his speed his feel for it and when to use those has just been great and he's he's just such a player that they haven't had that plays like that, that looks like that and is so built to close. And we, we were sort of talking about that as they look to, how are you going to replace the closing of Trey Hendrickson when you lose him? I mean, he was such a big part of their finishing ability. And I was, we sort of deemed him like the Mariano Rivera of the Bengals of what he did. And now like they have, a bunch of guys that feel, I mean, said Johnson feels like a closer at this point, but when you bring in these fresh speed rushers in the fourth quarter and here's 380 pound Trent Brown on drop back 62, who just is over it and has to try to deal with a speed rusher with fresh legs. Who's 21 years old or whatever. Like, It can be devastating for these guys. It's proven to be that for a couple of weeks, and I think that's the biggest advantage where you see some of the waves, if you will, coming through that have made such a difference. But particularly these young guys off the edge have been really living up to it. It's so contagious when this stuff starts happening and you get everybody contributing.
00:08:57
Speaker 3: He wasn't even on the board before the first game.
00:09:00
Speaker 2: Now plus 3,300.
00:09:00
Speaker 3: So, you know, buy it now.
00:09:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, what value on that? I'd take it.
00:09:05
Speaker 3: Um, yesterday I'm at lunch and I'm, I'm looking at Twitter on my phone and, uh, had somebody been sitting like in the next booth over, they would have thought that I got sent like nudes by somebody because the face I made when I saw your tweet with the 41 pressures.
00:09:22
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
00:09:22
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:09:23
Speaker 3: That is an astounding number.
00:09:25
Speaker 2: I like, it was, I was on my flight back and I was just kind of going through game stats and film or whatever. And I was like, oh, let's look and see. God, there's a lot of pressures here. I wonder what they ended up at. And I see 41, and it's one of those where you're like, oh, I hit the wrong. I must be on the season and not on the game page. So I went back. I was like, wait, am I on a whole previous season? 41, because I had run these numbers before the season started, thinking about what were their previous highs and pressures per season, feeling like that could really add up. It made no sense to me that 41 was a number. It does not even make sense. Their average per season the last six years is 12.6 per game pressures. And against Tampa Bay, in a game where they were really good and super disruptive, they had 14. So I'm looking... I'm looking at 41 and I'm like, what am I doing wrong? This is the pay. I'm adding them all up. There's Mafe with eight and Howell with six. I'm seeing it. They have 40. They created 41. Now, 41 pressures on essentially 27 pressured plays. CJ did drop back a lot. I mean, 65 total dropbacks. But still... That is a wild number, but it just goes to show when it's coming from everywhere and you're getting them so many times in third and long and third and long and playing from ahead, and then you have all those guys. It can add up fast, but it quickly got to this is the far end of the spectrum vision of best case scenario for this defensive line is what it looks like where you're looking at a number like 41 that just doesn't even make sense.
00:11:11
Speaker 3: So I saw the tweet. And then I thought, I have a little joke that I'm going to reply with. But I didn't want to get you mad at me. And so I didn't.
00:11:24
Speaker 2: Want to put you in a tough spot. So you wanted to save it for your little show here.
00:11:27
Speaker 3: I wanted to save it for my stupid little show here. And then I thought, I'll look at the ads and somebody else will make the joke. And it's like, only outdone by Orlando Brown. I couldn't come up with the proper joke. Orlando Brown gave up 42 pressures. I really couldn't frame it the right way, and I thought– I was a little bit disappointed in your followers that there was– nobody came back at you with– but it just goes– everybody's in a good mood.
00:11:52
Speaker 2: Everybody's in a good mood, and I think they were like– they were maybe too frozen to tweet. By the 41? By the 41, as I was. Like, it's just– or just double-checking me. Like, there's just– thinking the same thing I was. Like, this can't be a refresh. He's going to, like, edit this tweet. It must have been wrong. And I felt the same way. Yeah. Orlando, I mean– It's not super. It wasn't a super day for Orlando.
00:12:19
Speaker 3: We're going to spend some time on it. I knew you would, so I didn't want to go all the way there. But I'm not going to go there next. We're going to save that for later.
00:12:25
Speaker 2: Okay. Because I don't want to just instantly hit you with the bad stuff. Well, you know, I had this conversation with my editor. We were talking about just plans for what we're going to write this week. And I was like, at some point, we're going to get to Orlando. But it's disingenuous. It's not right to... to get to the one problem when there's so many good things that we need to be talking about right now that are much more the storyline with this team because we always want to revert to, especially after wins, it's like a very typical reversion of all the praise after the game, Monday follow, what about the problem? But I was like, I don't even feel right doing that because there's too many other positive things that we need to focus on here before we start getting into what's the issue.
00:13:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, there's always an imperfection. There's always a question. There's always a flaw, but I'm with you, and I even said that to Tony yesterday. I'm like, all right, we got to talk about Orlando Brown, but I'm not coming out of the gate talking about him, and it's going to be a while because for the second straight week, there were just so many different dudes I wanted to talk about.
00:13:32
Speaker 2: And honestly, Cash's out was at the top of that list. And the guy on the other side of Orlando Brown should probably be where we start either way, and that's Amari Smith. Have you clipped.
00:13:42
Speaker 3: The part of the growler where I gave bold predictions and talked about Amari as being an all-pro?
00:13:47
Speaker 2: I will do that for you. I will go back and do that. I have not done that yet. When he does, I will point out that you said it first. There's a lot of bold predictions that have been streaming in the right direction. A lot of things said before the season, which usually are made to quickly look silly, do not look so silly after a couple of games. You started talking about predictions about where this defense could end up at the end of the season. McPherson, Mims, pressure rates, things like that. There's a lot of things that felt kind of crazy that don't really feel so crazy now.
00:14:18
Speaker 3: Paul Daner Jr. from TheAthletic.com with its new score bug.
00:14:22
Speaker 2: Is that what you call it? What is it called? It's, yeah, it's, I mean, you get a notification. You get a notification. Notification, and you can go into, it's a game. The game has started. Yes, it's like a game day hub where you have all the information there. Our writers drop in there. And if you can't, like.
00:14:37
Speaker 3: If you're not watching the game for some reason or can't listen to it, it.
00:14:40
Speaker 2: Tells you what's going on. It's nice. It is. Thank you. I appreciate it. I have no hand in it. Visually, aesthetically. I was just told that I need to be contributing to it. Okay. Well, I'm happy to contribute. No, I don't know. I don't want you to contribute to it. Theathletic.com.
00:14:54
Speaker 3: Get the app and also check out the Growler podcast as well. Paul's here till four.
00:14:59
Speaker 2: I'm here till six.
00:15:00
Speaker 3: We're at Carnegie Hall in Newport 19 after three o'clock. This is is ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:15:08
Speaker 4: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Traffic.
00:15:13
Speaker 5: From the UC Health Traffic Center, no one covers the bingles like ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:15:23
Speaker 3: 24 minutes after 3 o'clock, this is ESPN 1530. Mo Egger, appreciate you listening today. We're broadcasting from Carnegie Hall at Newport, a delight morgue. Exclusive venue, check out NewportCarnegie.com. Paul Daynor Jr. from The Athletic and The Growler Podcast. The game on Sunday, like, if you are looking at it through the lens of like, you know, was this the most entertaining game in the NFL on Sunday? Not even close. Even Tony yesterday is like, you know what? Kind of a boring football game top to bottom, although there was some cool.
00:15:57
Speaker 2: Stuff in it.
00:15:57
Speaker 3: But that is exactly... the kind of game I wanted to see if they could win. I wanted to see if they could win a field position game. I wanted to see on the road against a team that we think is going to be pretty good, a field position game, a game where the offense kind of spun its tires a little bit, a game where the defense had to do maybe a little bit more heavy lifting than you would like. I wanted to see if they could win that sort of game. And so I loved it. As much as, you know, again, we can talk about Orlando Brown or some of the issues the Bengals had taking advantage of good field position early in the game.
00:16:32
Speaker 2: I've said this to you often.
00:16:33
Speaker 3: I think if they're going to win a championship, they have to win a lot of different types of games. That's the kind of game that across the course of a season, you have to figure out a way to win.
00:16:42
Speaker 2: And they did. That's what I liked. The word used yesterday around the building was grimy a lot, which I like. I like that. It's a good word. But I think it's just showing that they can win. I mean, everybody knows they can win a shootout, and they can win a game that is aesthetically pleased. But can you go in there and win a grimy game against a grimy team and have your defense be the one that makes that happen for you and do the little things right? Win it with fundamentals, like you said, with pinning down four times inside the 13 or whatever it was and stay on that and get stops and get them in third and longs and and do those little things that add up to winning games and understanding that and not messing it up with a dumb turnover or something like that offensively. And I think they did that. They managed the game on offense. They played great on special teams. It's a complete game that took a really good team and took them out of it and did it without having to do anything spectacular. Like I go back, if you go back to... we've been talking a lot about the 21-22 seasons, but if you go back to that 10-game winning streak, it was just, even, it didn't matter. They would just always find a way. They were inevitable, and they would just very much, in a business-like manner, just dispose of teams, because if you had one weakness, they would exploit it enough, and didn't even have to be great in any way to go and beat anybody, and I think those Those types of wins look like Sunday. I'm not saying they're about to go on a streak like that, but that's what it looks like when you have a team like that. That's complete and can do those types of things. I think it showed the continuity of their entire operation. I think it showed itself against Houston. And the special teams helped. Yeah, I mean, do you have any doubt when Evan McPherson walks out there from any distance?
00:18:51
Speaker 3: When they took the five-yard penalty?
00:18:53
Speaker 2: It wasn't that long ago where it was like, would you even send him out there?
00:18:56
Speaker 3: So they try a field goal, then there's a penalty, so they end up punting away instead of trying a 63-yarder. I wanted another penalty so he could try a 68-yarder. So my bold prediction that he would break the record this year would come true.
00:19:11
Speaker 2: But, like.
00:19:12
Speaker 3: 68 might be pushing it. But had they tried it from 63, I don't know if that would have fit in the context of the game, which was a field position game.
00:19:21
Speaker 2: I would have been like, all right, let's see. Why not? Why not? I mean, if he had hit it like he hit the 57 or 58 yard, it would have been good. Yeah. Yeah, he's been great. And I think when you're playing stylistically a game like you were playing on Sunday, I mean, Ryan Rico is– A huge part of that. Especially if your defense is playing like it's playing, and you're just consistently forcing the other team to come out from the shadows of their own goalposts. It wears on them, and it did. It wore on them on Sunday on Houston. They had a long way to go, and And, yeah, those things certainly play together. And he's just gotten so much better at that. Again, it falls into the line of so many things we've talked about. We're like, well, you know, the defense, they seem to have put the right pieces, and that should be better. And their tackling should be better because of this. And the offense should be better because they're using under center, and they can do more things here. And Joe should be better at this. And Rico, he's been working on this. All of these things have all come true. Through two weeks. Through two weeks. But they've all played out. Dexter Lawrence should... Man, he should be, if he can get back to that level. If he seems motivated, could change everything. And sure enough, two weeks in, he's changed everything. It's just everything that you were kind of betting on and hoping, maybe in like an 80% range, has come true through two weeks. And that's why I think the Bengals should be feeling so good about where they're at. And yet.
00:21:03
Speaker 3: they still had on Sunday. Effort Jamar's down there somewhere in their bag.
00:21:09
Speaker 2: They always have that. It's the best part is that they can always, if things are clunky, if things are rough, if they're making mistakes, if there's just something happening with pass rush, you can always just spam the T and Jamar buttons. And you can just Throwback shoulders, the tee, you can just throw it up to Jamar. You can do all of these things, and they'll make plays for you. When you can do that, you just have a button that no one else in the NFL has access to. That's why people tweet things like, uh-oh, Cincinnati has a defense, because you can always win. You can win when everything is not going your way, but you have a defense, and you can hit the tee and Jamar button. That's enough to win against almost anybody in the league.
00:21:57
Speaker 3: It's 3.31. We're at the Newport Carnegie Hall in downtown Newport, just off the river. Our buddy Paul Danner Jr. from The Athletic and The Growler Podcast is where the sports headlines are coming up. And then we'll talk about Orlando Brown on ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:22:17
Speaker 4: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530.
00:22:20
Speaker 2: Traffic. Station. Line for a service at Kelsey Chevrolet.
00:22:24
Speaker 3: Home of Lifetime, powertrain protection, and guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours. For life, KelseyChev.com. Off day for the Bengals. Any Bengals news today?
00:22:33
Speaker 2: Anything significant? Anything big? No? Okay.
00:22:37
Speaker 3: They will take on the Steelers in Pittsburgh Sunday at 1. The game is live on ESPN 1530. Meanwhile, because baseball's rules say every team has to play 162 games, Reds play the Braves tonight in Atlanta. Brandon Williamson will be opposed by J.R.
00:22:51
Speaker 2: Ritchie.
00:22:52
Speaker 3: 7-10, 7-15, actually, tonight's first pitch on 700 WLW. The Reds have brought Connor Phillips back up from AAA, and they have placed Tony Santeon on the injured list with a left hip labral tear. That sounds painful. I forgot that Connor Phillips was a part of the organization. Anyway, go listen to the game tonight. See if they can avoid losing 90 games.
00:23:16
Speaker 2: I remember a time when Connor Phillips was like the centerpiece. Yes. Of the bullpen plant.
00:23:21
Speaker 3: A year ago at this time, he was awesome. He was the star of what was happening.
00:23:24
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:23:25
Speaker 3: And then the season started. He could stop walking, guys. And then he got banished. But now he's back.
00:23:32
Speaker 2: Have we gotten the final, the current number of walks with the bases loaded by the Reds? That number was so crazy at one point. And I'm sure it's still far and away lapping the rest of Major League Baseball. But that's like one of those, wouldn't you? What do you remember most about a season? If you ask me in 10 years, I'll be like, oh, yeah, that's the years that they had, like, you know, whatever, 35 walks with the bases loaded.
00:23:57
Speaker 3: I feel like the pace has slowed in large part because now when they allow guys to get on base, like, dudes just hit home runs.
00:24:06
Speaker 2: So we don't really get to. They're not walking them? Yeah, it's great.
00:24:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, so instead of scoring one at a time, they just score three at a time.
00:24:13
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:24:13
Speaker 3: When you were a kid, did you read the Highlights magazine?
00:24:16
Speaker 2: Absolutely. My kids still get it. Do they really? Yeah.
00:24:19
Speaker 3: Do they still have Goofus and Gallant?
00:24:22
Speaker 2: Oh, I remember Goofus and Gallant. Yeah.
00:24:23
Speaker 3: That's Orlando Brown and Amarius Mims. Amarius Mims is awesome.
00:24:29
Speaker 2: Amarius Mims is awesome. He is awesome.
00:24:31
Speaker 3: He has been like everything you could want a tackle to be and more for the first two games. He is, for those who are uninitiated.
00:24:39
Speaker 2: He's Gallant. He's Gallant. Yeah. Goofus on the other side. Yeah.
00:24:43
Speaker 3: Orlando Brown.
00:24:44
Speaker 2: Do you want me to take it from there? Yeah, go ahead. What should I do with this? I can tell you. I have a very well-formed thought on this. Orlando Brown is the 17th highest paid left tackle in the NFL. I think that's probably proper with probably a couple guys that are on rookie contracts that are better than him. I think he is a starting level below average amongst those 32 left tackle. Will Anderson is the top paid edge rusher in the NFL, and Daniil Hunter is number five. For good reason, they live up to it. When you have an average to maybe below average starting left tackle against an elite edge rusher, it's going to look something like that sometimes. When that's happening this year, he needs help. They've got to give him help. They have to have people over there. They have to be chipping. Maybe in the past, it has been, we can leave our tackles on an island here and they can handle it. That's not the current situation. I think that is the lesson that was learned Sunday. And Zach Taylor has talked about this often over the years, about they feel like they can scheme around tackles. Now, normally, we were talking about the carousel of clowns that was happening at right tackle over the course of the years. But now, I think you're, And I'm not saying that Orlando's on that level. It's not. But it's the same idea. You have to be more cognizant. If Samaje Pirine or Chase Brown are in the backfield or Drew Sample's standing there next to Joe Burrow, don't even look to your right. You don't need to scan that way. Keep your eyes on the left tackle and get out there. Add chips into the routes more often. They know how to scheme around. if they feel like they're losing out there. And in fact, they did it fairly effectively once they got into the second half, recognize what was happening. I think that's the lesson that come out of it. I think you can deal with it. And I think when they go against a team that has average starting level edges, I think Orlando will be fine. I think he can hang in there. There is certainly concerned over what you've seen. And we've been talking about it throughout from through the end of last year to camp, to the Eric O'Neill incident, to, Now this. It's growing. But I don't think it's something that is debilitating at this point. And you have to recognize what you have a little bit more. And Orlando can get you through this. You just got to help him. You just have to recognize that you're going to have to scheme it up a little bit more on that side. Okay. I know. I'm not... And that's going to take away from some of the things you want to do. It is.
00:27:36
Speaker 3: It doesn't, I guess, dramatically shrink their playbook, but it does shrink it. If it's now we've got to figure out a way to put training wheels on this guy over here, it's seemingly fewer things you're able to do with the personnel you have. Yeah.
00:27:53
Speaker 2: I mean, we're probably going to have to talk to Dante Myers about how to chip a little bit. or guys, and that's fine, man, if you can add that. It's the advantage of having Jamar and T is you can take the other guy, you can take whoever your third person is, you can line Eric Hall up over there, you can have Andre be a little bit tighter and maybe his route comes off a little slower. You're probably not targeting him anyway. When you've got those other guys you know you're targeting, they can still get out for free. You're not going to ask them to do that stuff, but you have enough at your disposal, I think, that you can make it work. It hasn't been... They don't have another option is the thing. It'd be different. This would be a totally different conversation if they would have done stuff that we had talked about. Like maybe they use their second or third round pick on, on a tackle. And you'd be like, when is it time for this? Well, there's no, when is it time for Javon Foster? Okay. That's, that's not coming right now. And in fact, the moment when Amarius shoe exploded, like Zion Williamson, uh, I think that was maybe the scariest moment of the game. Forget Joe Burrow getting hit in the back. That was the scariest moment because they came out there on third and long with Javon Foster at right tackle and Orlando, who'd been having a tough day at left tackle. And to their credit, converted. But like, that is what you have to be thinking about is it can get worse in a hurry.
00:29:21
Speaker 3: How, if at all, eye-opening is it, how good Amarius Mims has been?
00:29:27
Speaker 2: I don't, I mean, I think it's just an, An extension of who he became at the end of last year. I think he's figured it out. I think he figured it out and that was apparent last year. but like, so eyeopening, I don't know. I just think it's, this was always his potential.
00:29:46
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:29:46
Speaker 2: I mean, built and moving like that every, when he was drafted, it was like, well, he'd be a top five guy if he played more. And if he lives up to his, his athleticism, he could be the best in the game. No, Nobody in the scouting community shied away from that concept. It was just, will he become that? And he's become that. He knows what he's doing. He's smart. He sees it. He's intelligent. He knows how to pass off and when to do something, what guys are trying to do. It doesn't matter who you are. When you watch the cut-up of the one-on-ones that he had against those two dudes, they're just He knows when to run them all the way around the top. He knows when to just hold on the bowl. He knows when to try to hold on the bowl and watch his shoe explode. He just does it. When he knows what you're doing, when he gets you, it's over. It's over. There's no winning for that guy. He's been outstanding. If people keep paying attention, I think you're all pro things very much in play.
00:30:46
Speaker 3: Where should the level of concern be with the fact that we're two games in and we're just, we're still talking a lot about Joe Burrow's body parts.
00:30:58
Speaker 2: Back. I mean, yeah, some, I don't know. I don't think it's a huge, I'm not, I think after seeing what he took on Sunday, considering it was his first game with this back rib, whatever it is. Um, issue, considering that that's the case, and we saw him take those big hits, ten of them, five sacks, whatever, and play the way he played and still be able to move the way he moved and make the throws that we saw him make, I'm not super concerned with it. I expect we'll probably see him be limited for a little while, and I wonder how long that will go on as an indication of how he's feeling, but if this is just whatever this is, and and he can play that way through it, I think they're just fine. Yeah, he did move very well.
00:31:50
Speaker 3: I mean, he was vintage Joe in that regard.
00:31:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I wonder, you know, I mean, I don't know. He didn't really have to uncork many deep shots. I mean, the one was really the Jamar ball that was really high and kind of hung up there, so I don't... We'll see, I guess, will they have more opportunities for that if that looks the same? He's got the same distance and velo and spin on those. But for now, I mean, if that's Joe... you know, I think you're okay. Yeah.
00:32:18
Speaker 3: I said this to you on your pod this morning, and I'll bring it up here because I had it planned. I mean, Jamar Chase makes this insane catch, which if there's another better catch in the NFL this year, I can't wait to see it. Meanwhile, there's T. Higgins converting third downs, moving the chains, quietly going about his job. No highlight reel stuff. Nobody after the game was like, going on and on about a catch that T. Higgins made, but he was uber important in that game. And by the way, he got some of that attention for the catch he made on third down against the Bucs. I said this to you on your pod, but I love that dude. Because you have to know, I'm going to be overshadowed at a position where guys don't want to be overshadowed. And he played a really good game, an important game. Nobody cares. Nobody talks about it. Because Jamar does the otherworldly. And what I love about T is at least publicly, he's very content with that. That's not that common at that position.
00:33:21
Speaker 2: No. I mean, it's usually the biggest problem. Yes. At wide receiver two in the NFL. And I'm not calling. I know he's 1A. We were all put on notice about that. And I don't view him that way. But I just think that that is a common issue is that you want to be the man. You want to be seen when people talk about you. You want to get the coverage. That's the deal. Him and Jamar. Jamar, I think, has the same amount of lacking ego and unselfishness, I think, in a lot of ways. Two passes the first game. And he showed that during the week last week. You know what I mean? I think he showed that growth, and there's plenty of times where he hasn't. But I think it comes from a place of just wanting to win and not of, I need my numbers. It's never been about that for either of those guys, even though they've gotten plenty of numbers.
00:34:11
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:34:12
Speaker 2: And I think what you're talking about is why I think the T chant hits so hard. Is because real Bengals fans love T for that and try to show him something. You know what's funny is at that game in person, I don't know how much it came over on the TV copy, but when T made his first catch, man, there was a lot of loud Ts. And it was the moment you said, oh, there's a ton of Bengals fans that travel to this game because That's how you know. You hear that sound when he makes the catch. It's how you know how many Bengals fans are there. And it was like– it made us all kind of look at each other like, wow, there's a lot of Bengals fans here because you really heard that. And I think that's because they always want to make sure T knows that he deserves– The love and the fans clearly have that for him, and I think a lot of it is because of what you're talking about. I wasn't at the stadium, obviously.
00:35:05
Speaker 3: I was at an establishment in Fort Wright, Dickman's, and I didn't hear what the announcers were doing. I didn't hear the chants of T in the stands because I heard them throughout the bar.
00:35:15
Speaker 2: It's just something everybody does. It's what you do. It's instinctive. That's what everybody does.
00:35:20
Speaker 3: I love that dude, and I know I've talked about this with you before, like, He has paid a lot of money. And so, like, everything's relative. But I'll sign up to be the second banana. Like, just doesn't happen, man.
00:35:36
Speaker 2: No.
00:35:36
Speaker 3: And so, like, man, Jamar's catch was absurd. He is a remarkable football player. But, like, there's T just moving the sticks.
00:35:45
Speaker 2: And making, like, remarkable plays in his own right. Like, that back shoulder third down was a massive play in the game and an insanely difficult one. to pull off, and he sort of does it in a very matter-of-fact way, and it just goes about his business. So, I mean, that's just it. When you got both of them and you got Joe, there's just no way that anybody can really, truly slow it down or know the thing that they can stop it because there's just an unstoppable nature to the two of them generally.
00:36:19
Speaker 3: There's also something about the difficulty in preparing for them where in game one, Mike Kosicki is awesome. And in game two, you don't notice them. And the Texans, I think, played the way they did defensively against the Bengals as a response to what Mike Gesicki did. And then it's like, cool. I don't know that they took him away, but to me, it was just a demonstration of an offense that can beat you in a number of different ways.
00:36:42
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it was the exact opposite in terms of distribution. I mean, they were just very T and Jamar heavy in this game.
00:36:50
Speaker 3: Sort of had a sense that was going to be the case.
00:36:51
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but then in the previous game, you know, it was distributed what nine different receivers had receptions and, and, and Gesicki has the big day and Dante Myers and Samaj P Ryan. It's just, and that's, you know, it's part of it. It's obviously the beauty of Joe Burrow is that he'll just, he'll take what's there. And if he sees Jamar T even there a little bit, he's going to always take them. But like, The idea is if you're specifically– such a big storyline of last year and the last couple of years now has been just teams going to this double-double thing on the two of them and challenging the Bengals to have another guy that can beat them. And I think when week one shows you what it shows you, that those guys can beat you, maybe it limits your ability to go do that. And if Joe sees that you're not doing that, we know where the ball goes. And I think– and so now– The defensive coordinators have to pick what they want to do, and Joe's going to pick which way he probably wants to try to beat you that day. And that's why it's going to be fascinating to see what evolves against this because they just have– they do. They have a lot of answers. They have a lot of tools in the belt, and we'll see where it goes next. As a kid, I identified with Goofus. You did? Yeah. I see. Well, I certainly wasn't a gallant. I can tell you that much. But it's good. Good for you.
00:38:09
Speaker 3: Thanks very much. I will occasionally find myself in a waiting room with my daughter. And if they have highlights, I will grab it, see what Goofus and Gallant.
00:38:19
Speaker 2: Are up to. I was a picture pages guy.
00:38:22
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
00:38:22
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, remember Picture Pages? The pen that made noise. Yeah, of course. That was a big one. That was a big one. I was always a big Picture Pages guy. Yeah. We do the search now. You've got to find all the items in there. Yeah, yeah. As you get to the next level up, they get a little harder than they should be.
00:38:38
Speaker 3: My sister-in-law got my daughter a book, and it's Find Crosley, and you have to find Crosley. It's much younger, but you have to find her in this collage.
00:38:47
Speaker 2: Like, where's Waldo?
00:38:48
Speaker 3: And we're still stuck on the last one.
00:38:51
Speaker 2: It's been years. I have no idea. Did we remember to put the picture in there?
00:38:57
Speaker 3: We both have looked at each other like, go play checkers or something.
00:39:01
Speaker 2: This is stupid.
00:39:02
Speaker 3: TheAthletic.com, The Growler Podcast, latest episode out.
00:39:07
Speaker 2: Yes. It had me on it. It did.
00:39:09
Speaker 3: Wow.
00:39:10
Speaker 2: You did a great job. A theme song now. You have a great theme song. Yeah. And I've already made sure that the– The photo that we talked about being in next week has already been placed in, so we'll take care of that. All right.
00:39:22
Speaker 3: Go catch the latest installment of the Growler podcast, and we'll talk next week.
00:39:27
Speaker 2: Enjoy Pittsburgh. Looking forward to it. Thanks.
00:39:29
Speaker 3: Eight away from 4 o'clock. Mo Egger here till 6. We are broadcasting from Carnegie Hall in Newport on ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:39:40
Speaker 4: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Traffic.
00:39:44
Speaker 2: From the UC Health Traffic Center, blood.
Speaker 1: The Bengals storm into the Steel City, looking to pitch Pittsburgh into the recycling bin. Just saying the word Pittsburgh makes me want to puke. The Bengals slug it out with the Steelers. Sunday, coverage begins at 9 a.m. Stream for free on the new and improved iHeartRadio app or on ESPN 1530, the official home of the Cincinnati Bengals. It's the Bengals and Steelers.
00:00:30
Speaker 2: I'll be the Bengals and Steelers on Sunday. What's up? Good afternoon.
00:00:33
Speaker 3: I'm Mo Egger. This is ESPN 1530. Thank you very much for listening. I hope you're having an awesome Tuesday afternoon. Speaking of awesome, we're in an awesome place right now. The Carnegie Hall in Newport.
00:00:45
Speaker 2: Check this place out.
00:00:46
Speaker 3: NewportCarnegie.com. One of the best event venues you will ever see. I'm not having another wedding, ever. I mean, my daughter might get married one day. I guess I'll have to foot the bill for that. But if I have any say, this place here is where we're going to be doing that. You could have the wedding here. You could have the reception here. You could also host a radio show if you want, if you have one. I'm lucky enough that I do. So we're here at the Carnegie Hall in Newport. This event venue, part of the folks at Delightmore, they have a series of awesome venues all throughout the greater Cincinnati area. Last week, we were lucky enough to be at Mercantile Immersive, where, by the way, they will have a Bengals Steelers watch party on Sunday. You can learn more about that at mercantileimmersive.com. Today, though, we're across the river in Newport at Carnegie Hall, and a great day to be here. Love this place. And, of course, our guy Paul Daner Jr. is here from the Athletic and the Growler podcast on the Bengals.
00:01:44
Speaker 2: How's it going? I'm doing great. How are you doing? I'm well. I'm well. They're 2-0. Everybody's happy. The vibes are good.
00:01:51
Speaker 3: The vibes are good.
00:01:52
Speaker 2: It's hard to... We've seen the opposite side of the vibes after two games. I did a... I'm sure we'll talk plenty about Pittsburgh, but I did a little interview with our athletic Pittsburgh writer earlier today. The vibe's not so good there. And I was like, this is... Hearing him, I was like, this is familiar. This is the feeling that I'm used to hearing and seeing around Pittsburgh. two games where you start to question how will a lot of people survive said season and you can feel that. So it was a good reminder of just how far this team has come to not be feeling the way that they're feeling in Pittsburgh.
00:02:33
Speaker 3: I went on a Pittsburgh sports talk radio show. earlier this afternoon, and I just randomly said, I'm enjoying watching the Joey Porter Jr.
00:02:41
Speaker 2: Stuff play out. Yes.
00:02:43
Speaker 3: And I said, I know firsthand the goldmine that this could be for you guys, but it is nice to watch another city have to wrestle with something like that.
00:02:52
Speaker 2: Yeah. Every time I would open my athletic app, because I follow a lot of people, but the AFC North, all of them, and I would see a story about the latest... As the world turns with Joey Porter Jr., I would smile every time. He'd be like, for once, it's not me. Just happy it's not me having to do this.
00:03:11
Speaker 3: You know how sometimes if there was like a company will have some sort of emergency crisis and they'll fly in a specialist to sort of handle it, consult? You could do that for the athletic in cities where there's a holdout or a hold-in or some sort of contract issue.
00:03:27
Speaker 2: You could sort of consult. the staff on how to handle something like that. Ownership distraction consultant.
00:03:32
Speaker 4: Yes.
00:03:33
Speaker 2: That could be your thing. Maybe I could be a consultant with the players. Have you considered holding your own press conference on the side of a practice field? Seen it, had its ups and downs there, but I think inevitably this might work for you.
00:03:47
Speaker 3: In the athletic, I notice now I get a little game scoreboard thing.
00:03:53
Speaker 2: On my phone for the teams that I follow. You do? Yeah. You in charge of that? I am not on the tech side. Okay, gotcha. No, those little game bugs are nice, though, actually. You can hop in there, and I'll go in there and drop some stuff into the chat and take questions at the game every once in a while, like at inactives, and then during the game I'll drop in there, too. So you can chat, you can see stuff. I like those. I kind of like the little bugs that you can follow. So I could ask you questions during the game that you're covering? I mean, you could. I don't, like, I mean, I'd rather you didn't. Okay. Fair. Fine. Me. Yeah. Yeah. Others. Others. I'm fine.
00:04:30
Speaker 3: Wait, wait until Tuesday for my question.
00:04:32
Speaker 2: Yeah. You have a whole hour. Okay. I mean, but you know, or just text me, here's what I'm starting with. Okay. Okay.
00:04:37
Speaker 3: Should I put a hundred dollars on cash as how at plus three 30 to be defensive rookie of the year?
00:04:45
Speaker 2: Because this is the guy that I want to talk about the most. Yeah. Yeah. I, it's a great, it's a great value. Um, When you talk about when we start adding up these pressures, when we start adding up what this defense theoretically can do, if what they've started with continues on this pace. Waves. Waves. I know. I had to go one more time. I had to go all the way in. I'm like, how far can I take this? You took it far. To real far. But my thing is, the Bengals' defense, in regards to your betting situation, The Bengals' defense, if it becomes a thing, I mean, the way people are talking about it is going to be such a narrative driver of, oh, my gosh, it's so different. What made it so different? They'll start with Dexter Lawrence, and then if you have Cassius Howell with, I mean, what's he on pace for? 60 pressures and 8 to 10 sags? He's going to be in that conversation. And at plus 330, yeah, I mean, it's hard not to like him. I just, they have, if you look, I was filtering out the second half because like man these second halves they have just been monsters getting after playing with this lead and partially it is very situational it's they've had them in in clear drop back situations with cj and with baker mayfield the week before um but cassius has the most pass rush snaps in the second half for the bangles this year they've given him the most opportunities and he's delivered his pressure rates are high he's he amazingly doesn't have credit for Sack yet, I guess, but he's been the creator of probably half of them, it feels like, just back there forcing the quarterback off his spot. His are going to come. He's just, you know, if they're going to be playing with leads a bunch and playing like this, he seems to be really, really living up to it.
00:06:38
Speaker 3: It's just nice to have an early draft pick who plays defense, who's contributing in year one, because they haven't had any of that.
00:06:47
Speaker 2: Well, Contributing positively. Yeah, contributing positively.
00:06:52
Speaker 3: But, like, Tony and I talked about him yesterday where he's like, you know, if you focus in on him, a lot of guys come from college and, like, good players. First-round picks. They have, like, one or two moves. And then they get here and they need more. Cassius Howell looks like he's got the full bag.
00:07:10
Speaker 2: Al Golden was talking about him in that regard yesterday. He said he's got three. He's, like, he's got speed. He's got, I guess it's whatever, the dip. Mm-hmm. it's called the ghost move you can call a number of different things i just call it teleporting to the quarterback um but and and a counter off of that and when you have three different things you can go to with the with where he's coming from and there'll be more tape out on him i don't think it's going to continue to be i'm not going to say easy but i i think it'll get harder for him but he's got he's got plenty in his bag his speed his feel for it and when to use those has just been great and he's he's just such a player that they haven't had that plays like that, that looks like that and is so built to close. And we, we were sort of talking about that as they look to, how are you going to replace the closing of Trey Hendrickson when you lose him? I mean, he was such a big part of their finishing ability. And I was, we sort of deemed him like the Mariano Rivera of the Bengals of what he did. And now like they have, a bunch of guys that feel, I mean, said Johnson feels like a closer at this point, but when you bring in these fresh speed rushers in the fourth quarter and here's 380 pound Trent Brown on drop back 62, who just is over it and has to try to deal with a speed rusher with fresh legs. Who's 21 years old or whatever. Like, It can be devastating for these guys. It's proven to be that for a couple of weeks, and I think that's the biggest advantage where you see some of the waves, if you will, coming through that have made such a difference. But particularly these young guys off the edge have been really living up to it. It's so contagious when this stuff starts happening and you get everybody contributing.
00:08:57
Speaker 3: He wasn't even on the board before the first game.
00:09:00
Speaker 2: Now plus 3,300.
00:09:00
Speaker 3: So, you know, buy it now.
00:09:02
Speaker 2: Yeah, what value on that? I'd take it.
00:09:05
Speaker 3: Um, yesterday I'm at lunch and I'm, I'm looking at Twitter on my phone and, uh, had somebody been sitting like in the next booth over, they would have thought that I got sent like nudes by somebody because the face I made when I saw your tweet with the 41 pressures.
00:09:22
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
00:09:22
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:09:23
Speaker 3: That is an astounding number.
00:09:25
Speaker 2: I like, it was, I was on my flight back and I was just kind of going through game stats and film or whatever. And I was like, oh, let's look and see. God, there's a lot of pressures here. I wonder what they ended up at. And I see 41, and it's one of those where you're like, oh, I hit the wrong. I must be on the season and not on the game page. So I went back. I was like, wait, am I on a whole previous season? 41, because I had run these numbers before the season started, thinking about what were their previous highs and pressures per season, feeling like that could really add up. It made no sense to me that 41 was a number. It does not even make sense. Their average per season the last six years is 12.6 per game pressures. And against Tampa Bay, in a game where they were really good and super disruptive, they had 14. So I'm looking... I'm looking at 41 and I'm like, what am I doing wrong? This is the pay. I'm adding them all up. There's Mafe with eight and Howell with six. I'm seeing it. They have 40. They created 41. Now, 41 pressures on essentially 27 pressured plays. CJ did drop back a lot. I mean, 65 total dropbacks. But still... That is a wild number, but it just goes to show when it's coming from everywhere and you're getting them so many times in third and long and third and long and playing from ahead, and then you have all those guys. It can add up fast, but it quickly got to this is the far end of the spectrum vision of best case scenario for this defensive line is what it looks like where you're looking at a number like 41 that just doesn't even make sense.
00:11:11
Speaker 3: So I saw the tweet. And then I thought, I have a little joke that I'm going to reply with. But I didn't want to get you mad at me. And so I didn't.
00:11:24
Speaker 2: Want to put you in a tough spot. So you wanted to save it for your little show here.
00:11:27
Speaker 3: I wanted to save it for my stupid little show here. And then I thought, I'll look at the ads and somebody else will make the joke. And it's like, only outdone by Orlando Brown. I couldn't come up with the proper joke. Orlando Brown gave up 42 pressures. I really couldn't frame it the right way, and I thought– I was a little bit disappointed in your followers that there was– nobody came back at you with– but it just goes– everybody's in a good mood.
00:11:52
Speaker 2: Everybody's in a good mood, and I think they were like– they were maybe too frozen to tweet. By the 41? By the 41, as I was. Like, it's just– or just double-checking me. Like, there's just– thinking the same thing I was. Like, this can't be a refresh. He's going to, like, edit this tweet. It must have been wrong. And I felt the same way. Yeah. Orlando, I mean– It's not super. It wasn't a super day for Orlando.
00:12:19
Speaker 3: We're going to spend some time on it. I knew you would, so I didn't want to go all the way there. But I'm not going to go there next. We're going to save that for later.
00:12:25
Speaker 2: Okay. Because I don't want to just instantly hit you with the bad stuff. Well, you know, I had this conversation with my editor. We were talking about just plans for what we're going to write this week. And I was like, at some point, we're going to get to Orlando. But it's disingenuous. It's not right to... to get to the one problem when there's so many good things that we need to be talking about right now that are much more the storyline with this team because we always want to revert to, especially after wins, it's like a very typical reversion of all the praise after the game, Monday follow, what about the problem? But I was like, I don't even feel right doing that because there's too many other positive things that we need to focus on here before we start getting into what's the issue.
00:13:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, there's always an imperfection. There's always a question. There's always a flaw, but I'm with you, and I even said that to Tony yesterday. I'm like, all right, we got to talk about Orlando Brown, but I'm not coming out of the gate talking about him, and it's going to be a while because for the second straight week, there were just so many different dudes I wanted to talk about.
00:13:32
Speaker 2: And honestly, Cash's out was at the top of that list. And the guy on the other side of Orlando Brown should probably be where we start either way, and that's Amari Smith. Have you clipped.
00:13:42
Speaker 3: The part of the growler where I gave bold predictions and talked about Amari as being an all-pro?
00:13:47
Speaker 2: I will do that for you. I will go back and do that. I have not done that yet. When he does, I will point out that you said it first. There's a lot of bold predictions that have been streaming in the right direction. A lot of things said before the season, which usually are made to quickly look silly, do not look so silly after a couple of games. You started talking about predictions about where this defense could end up at the end of the season. McPherson, Mims, pressure rates, things like that. There's a lot of things that felt kind of crazy that don't really feel so crazy now.
00:14:18
Speaker 3: Paul Daner Jr. from TheAthletic.com with its new score bug.
00:14:22
Speaker 2: Is that what you call it? What is it called? It's, yeah, it's, I mean, you get a notification. You get a notification. Notification, and you can go into, it's a game. The game has started. Yes, it's like a game day hub where you have all the information there. Our writers drop in there. And if you can't, like.
00:14:37
Speaker 3: If you're not watching the game for some reason or can't listen to it, it.
00:14:40
Speaker 2: Tells you what's going on. It's nice. It is. Thank you. I appreciate it. I have no hand in it. Visually, aesthetically. I was just told that I need to be contributing to it. Okay. Well, I'm happy to contribute. No, I don't know. I don't want you to contribute to it. Theathletic.com.
00:14:54
Speaker 3: Get the app and also check out the Growler podcast as well. Paul's here till four.
00:14:59
Speaker 2: I'm here till six.
00:15:00
Speaker 3: We're at Carnegie Hall in Newport 19 after three o'clock. This is is ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:15:08
Speaker 4: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Traffic.
00:15:13
Speaker 5: From the UC Health Traffic Center, no one covers the bingles like ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:15:23
Speaker 3: 24 minutes after 3 o'clock, this is ESPN 1530. Mo Egger, appreciate you listening today. We're broadcasting from Carnegie Hall at Newport, a delight morgue. Exclusive venue, check out NewportCarnegie.com. Paul Daynor Jr. from The Athletic and The Growler Podcast. The game on Sunday, like, if you are looking at it through the lens of like, you know, was this the most entertaining game in the NFL on Sunday? Not even close. Even Tony yesterday is like, you know what? Kind of a boring football game top to bottom, although there was some cool.
00:15:57
Speaker 2: Stuff in it.
00:15:57
Speaker 3: But that is exactly... the kind of game I wanted to see if they could win. I wanted to see if they could win a field position game. I wanted to see on the road against a team that we think is going to be pretty good, a field position game, a game where the offense kind of spun its tires a little bit, a game where the defense had to do maybe a little bit more heavy lifting than you would like. I wanted to see if they could win that sort of game. And so I loved it. As much as, you know, again, we can talk about Orlando Brown or some of the issues the Bengals had taking advantage of good field position early in the game.
00:16:32
Speaker 2: I've said this to you often.
00:16:33
Speaker 3: I think if they're going to win a championship, they have to win a lot of different types of games. That's the kind of game that across the course of a season, you have to figure out a way to win.
00:16:42
Speaker 2: And they did. That's what I liked. The word used yesterday around the building was grimy a lot, which I like. I like that. It's a good word. But I think it's just showing that they can win. I mean, everybody knows they can win a shootout, and they can win a game that is aesthetically pleased. But can you go in there and win a grimy game against a grimy team and have your defense be the one that makes that happen for you and do the little things right? Win it with fundamentals, like you said, with pinning down four times inside the 13 or whatever it was and stay on that and get stops and get them in third and longs and and do those little things that add up to winning games and understanding that and not messing it up with a dumb turnover or something like that offensively. And I think they did that. They managed the game on offense. They played great on special teams. It's a complete game that took a really good team and took them out of it and did it without having to do anything spectacular. Like I go back, if you go back to... we've been talking a lot about the 21-22 seasons, but if you go back to that 10-game winning streak, it was just, even, it didn't matter. They would just always find a way. They were inevitable, and they would just very much, in a business-like manner, just dispose of teams, because if you had one weakness, they would exploit it enough, and didn't even have to be great in any way to go and beat anybody, and I think those Those types of wins look like Sunday. I'm not saying they're about to go on a streak like that, but that's what it looks like when you have a team like that. That's complete and can do those types of things. I think it showed the continuity of their entire operation. I think it showed itself against Houston. And the special teams helped. Yeah, I mean, do you have any doubt when Evan McPherson walks out there from any distance?
00:18:51
Speaker 3: When they took the five-yard penalty?
00:18:53
Speaker 2: It wasn't that long ago where it was like, would you even send him out there?
00:18:56
Speaker 3: So they try a field goal, then there's a penalty, so they end up punting away instead of trying a 63-yarder. I wanted another penalty so he could try a 68-yarder. So my bold prediction that he would break the record this year would come true.
00:19:11
Speaker 2: But, like.
00:19:12
Speaker 3: 68 might be pushing it. But had they tried it from 63, I don't know if that would have fit in the context of the game, which was a field position game.
00:19:21
Speaker 2: I would have been like, all right, let's see. Why not? Why not? I mean, if he had hit it like he hit the 57 or 58 yard, it would have been good. Yeah. Yeah, he's been great. And I think when you're playing stylistically a game like you were playing on Sunday, I mean, Ryan Rico is– A huge part of that. Especially if your defense is playing like it's playing, and you're just consistently forcing the other team to come out from the shadows of their own goalposts. It wears on them, and it did. It wore on them on Sunday on Houston. They had a long way to go, and And, yeah, those things certainly play together. And he's just gotten so much better at that. Again, it falls into the line of so many things we've talked about. We're like, well, you know, the defense, they seem to have put the right pieces, and that should be better. And their tackling should be better because of this. And the offense should be better because they're using under center, and they can do more things here. And Joe should be better at this. And Rico, he's been working on this. All of these things have all come true. Through two weeks. Through two weeks. But they've all played out. Dexter Lawrence should... Man, he should be, if he can get back to that level. If he seems motivated, could change everything. And sure enough, two weeks in, he's changed everything. It's just everything that you were kind of betting on and hoping, maybe in like an 80% range, has come true through two weeks. And that's why I think the Bengals should be feeling so good about where they're at. And yet.
00:21:03
Speaker 3: they still had on Sunday. Effort Jamar's down there somewhere in their bag.
00:21:09
Speaker 2: They always have that. It's the best part is that they can always, if things are clunky, if things are rough, if they're making mistakes, if there's just something happening with pass rush, you can always just spam the T and Jamar buttons. And you can just Throwback shoulders, the tee, you can just throw it up to Jamar. You can do all of these things, and they'll make plays for you. When you can do that, you just have a button that no one else in the NFL has access to. That's why people tweet things like, uh-oh, Cincinnati has a defense, because you can always win. You can win when everything is not going your way, but you have a defense, and you can hit the tee and Jamar button. That's enough to win against almost anybody in the league.
00:21:57
Speaker 3: It's 3.31. We're at the Newport Carnegie Hall in downtown Newport, just off the river. Our buddy Paul Danner Jr. from The Athletic and The Growler Podcast is where the sports headlines are coming up. And then we'll talk about Orlando Brown on ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:22:17
Speaker 4: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530.
00:22:20
Speaker 2: Traffic. Station. Line for a service at Kelsey Chevrolet.
00:22:24
Speaker 3: Home of Lifetime, powertrain protection, and guaranteed credit approval from their family to yours. For life, KelseyChev.com. Off day for the Bengals. Any Bengals news today?
00:22:33
Speaker 2: Anything significant? Anything big? No? Okay.
00:22:37
Speaker 3: They will take on the Steelers in Pittsburgh Sunday at 1. The game is live on ESPN 1530. Meanwhile, because baseball's rules say every team has to play 162 games, Reds play the Braves tonight in Atlanta. Brandon Williamson will be opposed by J.R.
00:22:51
Speaker 2: Ritchie.
00:22:52
Speaker 3: 7-10, 7-15, actually, tonight's first pitch on 700 WLW. The Reds have brought Connor Phillips back up from AAA, and they have placed Tony Santeon on the injured list with a left hip labral tear. That sounds painful. I forgot that Connor Phillips was a part of the organization. Anyway, go listen to the game tonight. See if they can avoid losing 90 games.
00:23:16
Speaker 2: I remember a time when Connor Phillips was like the centerpiece. Yes. Of the bullpen plant.
00:23:21
Speaker 3: A year ago at this time, he was awesome. He was the star of what was happening.
00:23:24
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:23:25
Speaker 3: And then the season started. He could stop walking, guys. And then he got banished. But now he's back.
00:23:32
Speaker 2: Have we gotten the final, the current number of walks with the bases loaded by the Reds? That number was so crazy at one point. And I'm sure it's still far and away lapping the rest of Major League Baseball. But that's like one of those, wouldn't you? What do you remember most about a season? If you ask me in 10 years, I'll be like, oh, yeah, that's the years that they had, like, you know, whatever, 35 walks with the bases loaded.
00:23:57
Speaker 3: I feel like the pace has slowed in large part because now when they allow guys to get on base, like, dudes just hit home runs.
00:24:06
Speaker 2: So we don't really get to. They're not walking them? Yeah, it's great.
00:24:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, so instead of scoring one at a time, they just score three at a time.
00:24:13
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:24:13
Speaker 3: When you were a kid, did you read the Highlights magazine?
00:24:16
Speaker 2: Absolutely. My kids still get it. Do they really? Yeah.
00:24:19
Speaker 3: Do they still have Goofus and Gallant?
00:24:22
Speaker 2: Oh, I remember Goofus and Gallant. Yeah.
00:24:23
Speaker 3: That's Orlando Brown and Amarius Mims. Amarius Mims is awesome.
00:24:29
Speaker 2: Amarius Mims is awesome. He is awesome.
00:24:31
Speaker 3: He has been like everything you could want a tackle to be and more for the first two games. He is, for those who are uninitiated.
00:24:39
Speaker 2: He's Gallant. He's Gallant. Yeah. Goofus on the other side. Yeah.
00:24:43
Speaker 3: Orlando Brown.
00:24:44
Speaker 2: Do you want me to take it from there? Yeah, go ahead. What should I do with this? I can tell you. I have a very well-formed thought on this. Orlando Brown is the 17th highest paid left tackle in the NFL. I think that's probably proper with probably a couple guys that are on rookie contracts that are better than him. I think he is a starting level below average amongst those 32 left tackle. Will Anderson is the top paid edge rusher in the NFL, and Daniil Hunter is number five. For good reason, they live up to it. When you have an average to maybe below average starting left tackle against an elite edge rusher, it's going to look something like that sometimes. When that's happening this year, he needs help. They've got to give him help. They have to have people over there. They have to be chipping. Maybe in the past, it has been, we can leave our tackles on an island here and they can handle it. That's not the current situation. I think that is the lesson that was learned Sunday. And Zach Taylor has talked about this often over the years, about they feel like they can scheme around tackles. Now, normally, we were talking about the carousel of clowns that was happening at right tackle over the course of the years. But now, I think you're, And I'm not saying that Orlando's on that level. It's not. But it's the same idea. You have to be more cognizant. If Samaje Pirine or Chase Brown are in the backfield or Drew Sample's standing there next to Joe Burrow, don't even look to your right. You don't need to scan that way. Keep your eyes on the left tackle and get out there. Add chips into the routes more often. They know how to scheme around. if they feel like they're losing out there. And in fact, they did it fairly effectively once they got into the second half, recognize what was happening. I think that's the lesson that come out of it. I think you can deal with it. And I think when they go against a team that has average starting level edges, I think Orlando will be fine. I think he can hang in there. There is certainly concerned over what you've seen. And we've been talking about it throughout from through the end of last year to camp, to the Eric O'Neill incident, to, Now this. It's growing. But I don't think it's something that is debilitating at this point. And you have to recognize what you have a little bit more. And Orlando can get you through this. You just got to help him. You just have to recognize that you're going to have to scheme it up a little bit more on that side. Okay. I know. I'm not... And that's going to take away from some of the things you want to do. It is.
00:27:36
Speaker 3: It doesn't, I guess, dramatically shrink their playbook, but it does shrink it. If it's now we've got to figure out a way to put training wheels on this guy over here, it's seemingly fewer things you're able to do with the personnel you have. Yeah.
00:27:53
Speaker 2: I mean, we're probably going to have to talk to Dante Myers about how to chip a little bit. or guys, and that's fine, man, if you can add that. It's the advantage of having Jamar and T is you can take the other guy, you can take whoever your third person is, you can line Eric Hall up over there, you can have Andre be a little bit tighter and maybe his route comes off a little slower. You're probably not targeting him anyway. When you've got those other guys you know you're targeting, they can still get out for free. You're not going to ask them to do that stuff, but you have enough at your disposal, I think, that you can make it work. It hasn't been... They don't have another option is the thing. It'd be different. This would be a totally different conversation if they would have done stuff that we had talked about. Like maybe they use their second or third round pick on, on a tackle. And you'd be like, when is it time for this? Well, there's no, when is it time for Javon Foster? Okay. That's, that's not coming right now. And in fact, the moment when Amarius shoe exploded, like Zion Williamson, uh, I think that was maybe the scariest moment of the game. Forget Joe Burrow getting hit in the back. That was the scariest moment because they came out there on third and long with Javon Foster at right tackle and Orlando, who'd been having a tough day at left tackle. And to their credit, converted. But like, that is what you have to be thinking about is it can get worse in a hurry.
00:29:21
Speaker 3: How, if at all, eye-opening is it, how good Amarius Mims has been?
00:29:27
Speaker 2: I don't, I mean, I think it's just an, An extension of who he became at the end of last year. I think he's figured it out. I think he figured it out and that was apparent last year. but like, so eyeopening, I don't know. I just think it's, this was always his potential.
00:29:46
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:29:46
Speaker 2: I mean, built and moving like that every, when he was drafted, it was like, well, he'd be a top five guy if he played more. And if he lives up to his, his athleticism, he could be the best in the game. No, Nobody in the scouting community shied away from that concept. It was just, will he become that? And he's become that. He knows what he's doing. He's smart. He sees it. He's intelligent. He knows how to pass off and when to do something, what guys are trying to do. It doesn't matter who you are. When you watch the cut-up of the one-on-ones that he had against those two dudes, they're just He knows when to run them all the way around the top. He knows when to just hold on the bowl. He knows when to try to hold on the bowl and watch his shoe explode. He just does it. When he knows what you're doing, when he gets you, it's over. It's over. There's no winning for that guy. He's been outstanding. If people keep paying attention, I think you're all pro things very much in play.
00:30:46
Speaker 3: Where should the level of concern be with the fact that we're two games in and we're just, we're still talking a lot about Joe Burrow's body parts.
00:30:58
Speaker 2: Back. I mean, yeah, some, I don't know. I don't think it's a huge, I'm not, I think after seeing what he took on Sunday, considering it was his first game with this back rib, whatever it is. Um, issue, considering that that's the case, and we saw him take those big hits, ten of them, five sacks, whatever, and play the way he played and still be able to move the way he moved and make the throws that we saw him make, I'm not super concerned with it. I expect we'll probably see him be limited for a little while, and I wonder how long that will go on as an indication of how he's feeling, but if this is just whatever this is, and and he can play that way through it, I think they're just fine. Yeah, he did move very well.
00:31:50
Speaker 3: I mean, he was vintage Joe in that regard.
00:31:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I wonder, you know, I mean, I don't know. He didn't really have to uncork many deep shots. I mean, the one was really the Jamar ball that was really high and kind of hung up there, so I don't... We'll see, I guess, will they have more opportunities for that if that looks the same? He's got the same distance and velo and spin on those. But for now, I mean, if that's Joe... you know, I think you're okay. Yeah.
00:32:18
Speaker 3: I said this to you on your pod this morning, and I'll bring it up here because I had it planned. I mean, Jamar Chase makes this insane catch, which if there's another better catch in the NFL this year, I can't wait to see it. Meanwhile, there's T. Higgins converting third downs, moving the chains, quietly going about his job. No highlight reel stuff. Nobody after the game was like, going on and on about a catch that T. Higgins made, but he was uber important in that game. And by the way, he got some of that attention for the catch he made on third down against the Bucs. I said this to you on your pod, but I love that dude. Because you have to know, I'm going to be overshadowed at a position where guys don't want to be overshadowed. And he played a really good game, an important game. Nobody cares. Nobody talks about it. Because Jamar does the otherworldly. And what I love about T is at least publicly, he's very content with that. That's not that common at that position.
00:33:21
Speaker 2: No. I mean, it's usually the biggest problem. Yes. At wide receiver two in the NFL. And I'm not calling. I know he's 1A. We were all put on notice about that. And I don't view him that way. But I just think that that is a common issue is that you want to be the man. You want to be seen when people talk about you. You want to get the coverage. That's the deal. Him and Jamar. Jamar, I think, has the same amount of lacking ego and unselfishness, I think, in a lot of ways. Two passes the first game. And he showed that during the week last week. You know what I mean? I think he showed that growth, and there's plenty of times where he hasn't. But I think it comes from a place of just wanting to win and not of, I need my numbers. It's never been about that for either of those guys, even though they've gotten plenty of numbers.
00:34:11
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:34:12
Speaker 2: And I think what you're talking about is why I think the T chant hits so hard. Is because real Bengals fans love T for that and try to show him something. You know what's funny is at that game in person, I don't know how much it came over on the TV copy, but when T made his first catch, man, there was a lot of loud Ts. And it was the moment you said, oh, there's a ton of Bengals fans that travel to this game because That's how you know. You hear that sound when he makes the catch. It's how you know how many Bengals fans are there. And it was like– it made us all kind of look at each other like, wow, there's a lot of Bengals fans here because you really heard that. And I think that's because they always want to make sure T knows that he deserves– The love and the fans clearly have that for him, and I think a lot of it is because of what you're talking about. I wasn't at the stadium, obviously.
00:35:05
Speaker 3: I was at an establishment in Fort Wright, Dickman's, and I didn't hear what the announcers were doing. I didn't hear the chants of T in the stands because I heard them throughout the bar.
00:35:15
Speaker 2: It's just something everybody does. It's what you do. It's instinctive. That's what everybody does.
00:35:20
Speaker 3: I love that dude, and I know I've talked about this with you before, like, He has paid a lot of money. And so, like, everything's relative. But I'll sign up to be the second banana. Like, just doesn't happen, man.
00:35:36
Speaker 2: No.
00:35:36
Speaker 3: And so, like, man, Jamar's catch was absurd. He is a remarkable football player. But, like, there's T just moving the sticks.
00:35:45
Speaker 2: And making, like, remarkable plays in his own right. Like, that back shoulder third down was a massive play in the game and an insanely difficult one. to pull off, and he sort of does it in a very matter-of-fact way, and it just goes about his business. So, I mean, that's just it. When you got both of them and you got Joe, there's just no way that anybody can really, truly slow it down or know the thing that they can stop it because there's just an unstoppable nature to the two of them generally.
00:36:19
Speaker 3: There's also something about the difficulty in preparing for them where in game one, Mike Kosicki is awesome. And in game two, you don't notice them. And the Texans, I think, played the way they did defensively against the Bengals as a response to what Mike Gesicki did. And then it's like, cool. I don't know that they took him away, but to me, it was just a demonstration of an offense that can beat you in a number of different ways.
00:36:42
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, it was the exact opposite in terms of distribution. I mean, they were just very T and Jamar heavy in this game.
00:36:50
Speaker 3: Sort of had a sense that was going to be the case.
00:36:51
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but then in the previous game, you know, it was distributed what nine different receivers had receptions and, and, and Gesicki has the big day and Dante Myers and Samaj P Ryan. It's just, and that's, you know, it's part of it. It's obviously the beauty of Joe Burrow is that he'll just, he'll take what's there. And if he sees Jamar T even there a little bit, he's going to always take them. But like, The idea is if you're specifically– such a big storyline of last year and the last couple of years now has been just teams going to this double-double thing on the two of them and challenging the Bengals to have another guy that can beat them. And I think when week one shows you what it shows you, that those guys can beat you, maybe it limits your ability to go do that. And if Joe sees that you're not doing that, we know where the ball goes. And I think– and so now– The defensive coordinators have to pick what they want to do, and Joe's going to pick which way he probably wants to try to beat you that day. And that's why it's going to be fascinating to see what evolves against this because they just have– they do. They have a lot of answers. They have a lot of tools in the belt, and we'll see where it goes next. As a kid, I identified with Goofus. You did? Yeah. I see. Well, I certainly wasn't a gallant. I can tell you that much. But it's good. Good for you.
00:38:09
Speaker 3: Thanks very much. I will occasionally find myself in a waiting room with my daughter. And if they have highlights, I will grab it, see what Goofus and Gallant.
00:38:19
Speaker 2: Are up to. I was a picture pages guy.
00:38:22
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
00:38:22
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, remember Picture Pages? The pen that made noise. Yeah, of course. That was a big one. That was a big one. I was always a big Picture Pages guy. Yeah. We do the search now. You've got to find all the items in there. Yeah, yeah. As you get to the next level up, they get a little harder than they should be.
00:38:38
Speaker 3: My sister-in-law got my daughter a book, and it's Find Crosley, and you have to find Crosley. It's much younger, but you have to find her in this collage.
00:38:47
Speaker 2: Like, where's Waldo?
00:38:48
Speaker 3: And we're still stuck on the last one.
00:38:51
Speaker 2: It's been years. I have no idea. Did we remember to put the picture in there?
00:38:57
Speaker 3: We both have looked at each other like, go play checkers or something.
00:39:01
Speaker 2: This is stupid.
00:39:02
Speaker 3: TheAthletic.com, The Growler Podcast, latest episode out.
00:39:07
Speaker 2: Yes. It had me on it. It did.
00:39:09
Speaker 3: Wow.
00:39:10
Speaker 2: You did a great job. A theme song now. You have a great theme song. Yeah. And I've already made sure that the– The photo that we talked about being in next week has already been placed in, so we'll take care of that. All right.
00:39:22
Speaker 3: Go catch the latest installment of the Growler podcast, and we'll talk next week.
00:39:27
Speaker 2: Enjoy Pittsburgh. Looking forward to it. Thanks.
00:39:29
Speaker 3: Eight away from 4 o'clock. Mo Egger here till 6. We are broadcasting from Carnegie Hall in Newport on ESPN 1530 Cincinnati Sports Station.
00:39:40
Speaker 4: Cincinnati's ESPN 1530. Traffic.
00:39:44
Speaker 2: From the UC Health Traffic Center, blood.
