Kickapoo Was The Turning Point - with Mark and Jan Shumaker

WEBVTT
00:00:33.740 --> 00:00:37.920
Welcome to the MLIB Podcast. We're your hosts.
00:00:38.060 --> 00:00:39.939
I'm Dave Steele. And I'm Laura Steele. There
00:00:39.939 --> 00:00:44.259
we go. And today we're sticking in the thing.
00:00:44.420 --> 00:00:46.719
First of all, last week was fun getting to hear
00:00:46.719 --> 00:00:51.579
my mom. Yes. But we are sticking with the theme
00:00:51.579 --> 00:00:55.259
of parents. And why don't you introduce our very
00:00:55.259 --> 00:00:57.859
special guest today? OK, so today we have my
00:00:57.859 --> 00:01:01.320
mom and dad on our podcast. Welcome Mark and
00:01:01.320 --> 00:01:04.909
Jan Chewmaker. Glad to be here. I'm excited to
00:01:04.909 --> 00:01:07.150
be here. And this is the second time we've had
00:01:07.150 --> 00:01:08.790
my dad, he was telling us a little bit about
00:01:08.790 --> 00:01:11.090
his story, but this time we're going to kind
00:01:11.090 --> 00:01:13.390
of ask and find out about how they met and their
00:01:13.390 --> 00:01:15.750
marriage and all that. Everybody has their own
00:01:15.750 --> 00:01:19.170
story and female and male tell their story so
00:01:19.170 --> 00:01:21.329
different and they experienced the way they met,
00:01:21.409 --> 00:01:24.189
et cetera, so different. So that's what's exciting
00:01:24.189 --> 00:01:27.269
about a marriage. There's no two marriages alike.
00:01:27.450 --> 00:01:30.010
It's like a snowflake. It's, I think that's interesting.
00:01:30.129 --> 00:01:32.530
There are no two marriages that are alike. So
00:01:32.530 --> 00:01:35.409
it's beautiful in that way. All right. So honestly,
00:01:35.569 --> 00:01:37.409
I think I will, because you know, we, we have
00:01:37.409 --> 00:01:41.109
Papa and Papa came and told, I forgive me. It's
00:01:41.109 --> 00:01:44.469
Mark and Jan Shoemaker. But to me, it's never
00:01:44.469 --> 00:01:47.109
Mark and Jan. It's always Mimi and Papa. That's
00:01:47.109 --> 00:01:51.349
just the way it goes with me. So there we go.
00:01:51.750 --> 00:01:55.870
But We got to hear, yeah, we got to hear Papa's
00:01:55.870 --> 00:01:57.769
testimony for the most part, or kind of how his,
00:01:57.769 --> 00:02:02.010
his, his story of work and his salvation story
00:02:02.010 --> 00:02:03.810
and a lot of that type of stuff. But we, like
00:02:03.810 --> 00:02:06.189
we talked about, we want to hear your story of
00:02:06.189 --> 00:02:08.349
how you guys met. And so Mimi, I do want to start
00:02:08.349 --> 00:02:10.650
with you. I want to, first of all, I want to
00:02:10.650 --> 00:02:12.370
hear, because I know you all met in college.
00:02:12.750 --> 00:02:14.110
So why don't you give us a little background
00:02:14.110 --> 00:02:18.460
of maybe how you got. there and University of
00:02:18.460 --> 00:02:20.520
Illinois, is that that's correct? Yes, the U
00:02:20.520 --> 00:02:23.659
of I and champagne Urbana. Yes. Well, I'd like
00:02:23.659 --> 00:02:25.840
to hear kind of give a little bit of your backstory
00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:28.939
kind of how you got there. And then what kind
00:02:28.939 --> 00:02:33.020
of how what road took you to meet young Mark
00:02:33.020 --> 00:02:36.919
over here? Really, it was a miracle for me because
00:02:36.919 --> 00:02:40.479
I grew up in Long Beach, California. I grew up
00:02:40.479 --> 00:02:43.659
swimming in the ocean. I loved Long Beach. I
00:02:43.659 --> 00:02:47.740
was going to Long Beach City College and my mother
00:02:47.740 --> 00:02:51.379
remarried and moved to Park Ridge. And so therefore
00:02:51.379 --> 00:02:55.219
I had this open door to go to a Big Ten school.
00:02:55.759 --> 00:02:59.479
And so consequently I was so excited. And as
00:02:59.479 --> 00:03:02.460
it turned out, I moved to Park Ridge with my
00:03:02.460 --> 00:03:05.379
mom. Illinois. Park Ridge is the suburb of Chicago,
00:03:05.379 --> 00:03:09.159
correct? Yes. Yeah. Okay. Gotcha. My stepbrother
00:03:09.159 --> 00:03:12.319
Rick was going to the U of I and I decided to
00:03:12.319 --> 00:03:16.060
join him there and I love the U of I. I left
00:03:16.060 --> 00:03:19.599
California, it was 70 degrees that day and I
00:03:19.599 --> 00:03:24.259
flew into O 'Hare Airport and it was 17 below
00:03:24.259 --> 00:03:28.719
zero. Windchill factor. That was my initiation
00:03:28.719 --> 00:03:32.120
to. Illinois. Oh, that's funny. So you never
00:03:32.120 --> 00:03:34.000
looked back because you never went. I never looked
00:03:34.000 --> 00:03:36.639
back. So it was kind of like you didn't really,
00:03:37.080 --> 00:03:41.539
you went with your mom. Exactly. Gotcha. You
00:03:41.539 --> 00:03:43.139
know what, that's funny because I've never heard
00:03:43.139 --> 00:03:44.419
that part of the story. And what were you studying
00:03:44.419 --> 00:03:47.300
in community college? I was a business major
00:03:47.300 --> 00:03:49.800
there. Okay. And so I took all these business
00:03:49.800 --> 00:03:53.300
classes and so I'm really grateful for that background
00:03:53.300 --> 00:03:56.219
that I had. But then when I was going to go to
00:03:56.219 --> 00:03:59.120
the U of I, I switched to elementary ed. Oh,
00:03:59.120 --> 00:04:00.939
I didn't really know that for some reason. I
00:04:00.939 --> 00:04:02.560
knew you were something education, but I don't
00:04:02.560 --> 00:04:05.259
know why I didn't know it was elementary education.
00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:08.199
Well, I changed it again. Oh, you did to a speech
00:04:08.199 --> 00:04:11.780
therapy. OK. And then I changed it because time
00:04:11.780 --> 00:04:14.219
was marching on and I wanted to graduate it.
00:04:14.219 --> 00:04:18.420
So I changed to just liberal arts with a major
00:04:18.420 --> 00:04:20.860
in speech and a minor in psychology. OK, that's
00:04:20.860 --> 00:04:23.620
what I remember. So that was my final. You know
00:04:23.620 --> 00:04:26.670
how you keep. Tweaking your right. I do and that
00:04:26.670 --> 00:04:28.569
seems like a good fit for you But actually the
00:04:28.569 --> 00:04:31.709
education you ended up in education as well So
00:04:31.709 --> 00:04:34.029
that that makes sense. That's kind of the path
00:04:34.029 --> 00:04:36.470
you took sure your classes didn't go for not
00:04:36.470 --> 00:04:39.350
for sure because you've been Well, you've all
00:04:39.350 --> 00:04:42.350
the way through our kids grades you you did some
00:04:42.350 --> 00:04:44.209
didn't you do some substitute and things like
00:04:44.209 --> 00:04:46.970
that at mingo So I really like teaching. Yeah,
00:04:47.209 --> 00:04:49.449
so and then all the years in Sunday school at
00:04:49.449 --> 00:04:52.500
church and then coordinating it all that so also
00:04:52.500 --> 00:04:55.500
at the high school in Arlington Heights. Yeah,
00:04:55.759 --> 00:04:58.660
speech and English. Wasn't she your teacher,
00:04:58.860 --> 00:05:02.079
Laura? She was. I aced her class. But back to
00:05:02.079 --> 00:05:04.279
them. I want to talk about the U of I. I remember
00:05:04.279 --> 00:05:06.540
this and we might have touched on this with dad.
00:05:06.620 --> 00:05:08.439
I don't know if I'm remembering it from that
00:05:08.439 --> 00:05:11.000
conversation or another, but it was pretty tough
00:05:11.000 --> 00:05:13.259
academically at the University of Illinois, wasn't
00:05:13.259 --> 00:05:17.300
it? Extremely so. In fact, you're you're you
00:05:17.300 --> 00:05:20.680
face. Flunking out. They always talk about the
00:05:20.680 --> 00:05:23.600
kids that are flunking out is a high percent
00:05:23.600 --> 00:05:25.819
at the U of I because it was a very Competitive
00:05:25.819 --> 00:05:28.079
school schools were difficult in those days.
00:05:28.100 --> 00:05:30.759
Yeah. Yeah, they definitely were so you guys
00:05:30.759 --> 00:05:32.660
made it past your freshman year So did you go
00:05:32.660 --> 00:05:35.180
in as a freshman or did you go because you're
00:05:35.180 --> 00:05:37.759
transferring your community? I went in as a sophomore
00:05:37.759 --> 00:05:40.240
with a lot of credits because when you transfer
00:05:40.240 --> 00:05:43.439
they don't accept all your credits your credit
00:05:43.439 --> 00:05:45.639
hours, so I didn't really think about there being
00:05:45.639 --> 00:05:48.740
a big tin school. So it was at the time. Yeah.
00:05:48.740 --> 00:05:50.959
And so what is the, what's like, what was the
00:05:50.959 --> 00:05:52.480
enrollment size at that time? I'm just curious
00:05:52.480 --> 00:05:54.800
about how big it was. I think it was probably
00:05:54.800 --> 00:06:02.680
something in the 40 ,000 range. I'm sure it is.
00:06:03.339 --> 00:06:07.740
That's so big. It's so funny because, uh, I don't
00:06:07.740 --> 00:06:10.439
know how many listeners we have that have gone
00:06:10.439 --> 00:06:13.939
to schools like that, but for us, That seems
00:06:13.939 --> 00:06:17.540
like another city. You know, how big is OU and
00:06:17.540 --> 00:06:19.980
how big is, how big is OU? OU is probably about
00:06:19.980 --> 00:06:22.100
that same size. Oh, OU is that big? OU has got
00:06:22.100 --> 00:06:24.060
to be that big. Yeah. Oh, okay. I didn't know.
00:06:24.220 --> 00:06:26.120
I just didn't know what the numbers were. There's
00:06:26.120 --> 00:06:28.459
some other big 10 schools that are 50 ,000. Oh
00:06:28.459 --> 00:06:31.720
yeah. They're, they're huge. Michigan is. It's
00:06:31.720 --> 00:06:34.500
UCL, USC is giant. I mean, there are some really,
00:06:34.500 --> 00:06:37.120
really big schools out there. Of course we're
00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:39.920
ORU, which is, you know, when we went was in
00:06:39.920 --> 00:06:43.620
the 5 ,000, 6 ,000. Yeah, now we got JBU, which
00:06:43.620 --> 00:06:46.860
is only 2 ,000. Yeah, so. So like, what was the,
00:06:46.860 --> 00:06:51.519
what was the big, like, what was the major that
00:06:51.519 --> 00:06:53.459
people went to at that school? I just was curious,
00:06:53.500 --> 00:06:55.839
cause I didn't know. Oh, I think it was a big
00:06:55.839 --> 00:06:58.199
school in engineering. Okay, that's what I thought.
00:06:58.480 --> 00:07:00.639
I think Brian went there for a while and did
00:07:00.639 --> 00:07:02.660
engineering, Brian Johnson. And you could always
00:07:02.660 --> 00:07:04.680
tell the engineers because they all had slide
00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:07.480
rules. Oh, sure. I was back in the day. A slide
00:07:07.480 --> 00:07:09.839
rule? You know, the rulers that... You do all
00:07:09.839 --> 00:07:12.240
the math on them. Oh, the slide rulers? Oh, yeah.
00:07:12.560 --> 00:07:14.740
Oh, I never, ever... You didn't have the calculators
00:07:14.740 --> 00:07:17.319
then, you used a slide rule. Wow, that's really
00:07:17.319 --> 00:07:21.639
dating you, Dad. A slide ruler, now I wanna get
00:07:21.639 --> 00:07:24.379
one. Like, what is that? It was the mid to late
00:07:24.379 --> 00:07:26.480
60s. It's stocking stuff for a slide ruler. It's
00:07:26.480 --> 00:07:30.699
the mid to late 60s iPhone. Wow. Okay, so moving
00:07:30.699 --> 00:07:35.560
forward, you two are going to U of I, and so
00:07:35.560 --> 00:07:38.699
here's where it gets fun because I'm sure. Well,
00:07:38.699 --> 00:07:41.899
ask them. Well, ask what? Go for it. They became
00:07:41.899 --> 00:07:44.540
sororities. They became part of sororities first,
00:07:44.660 --> 00:07:47.660
correct? No, your dad didn't become part of a
00:07:47.660 --> 00:07:51.149
sorority. He became part of fraternity. It's
00:07:51.149 --> 00:07:56.470
a very big difference. Well, some people aren't
00:07:56.470 --> 00:07:58.930
so sure they're different anymore. I know, you're
00:07:58.930 --> 00:08:02.370
right. It's a different world. It was a big Greek
00:08:02.370 --> 00:08:05.029
campus. It was one of the biggest Greek campuses
00:08:05.029 --> 00:08:08.310
in the United States. There were so many fraternities
00:08:08.310 --> 00:08:10.930
and sororities there. 20 or 30 fraternities,
00:08:11.050 --> 00:08:13.769
20 or 30 sororities. So how did you decide which
00:08:13.769 --> 00:08:15.370
one you were going to go to? Because that is
00:08:15.370 --> 00:08:18.449
ultimately how you met, right? You do not decide
00:08:18.449 --> 00:08:22.550
you pledge. So what you do is you go out for
00:08:22.550 --> 00:08:26.589
You go out for the opportunities and so you go
00:08:26.589 --> 00:08:28.910
to different houses and you meet all the people
00:08:28.910 --> 00:08:33.330
and it I learned a lot from Going to those because
00:08:33.330 --> 00:08:36.070
it's like a big party and someone meets you at
00:08:36.070 --> 00:08:38.330
the door and they introduce you then they introduce
00:08:38.330 --> 00:08:40.990
you to the next group of people and the next
00:08:40.990 --> 00:08:43.909
and so they're Questioning you and really sizing
00:08:43.909 --> 00:08:47.139
you up and then you get an invitation Got you
00:08:47.139 --> 00:08:49.600
to see if you come back. So you might not get
00:08:49.600 --> 00:08:52.720
an invitation. I got cut from quite a few. But
00:08:52.720 --> 00:08:56.320
so you just keep going back and there's every
00:08:56.320 --> 00:08:59.600
day you go to a different a different. So what
00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:02.779
kind of questions do they ask? They want to know
00:09:02.779 --> 00:09:05.399
about who you are. They want to know about your
00:09:05.399 --> 00:09:08.480
education. They want to know about your personality
00:09:08.480 --> 00:09:11.399
and your activities. And so it's a it's a soft
00:09:11.399 --> 00:09:14.000
interview. And so all these people are checking
00:09:14.000 --> 00:09:18.620
you out. Sure. I mean, you're trudging from house
00:09:18.620 --> 00:09:22.019
to house all over a big campus. It's quite an
00:09:22.019 --> 00:09:23.259
exciting thing. And back then, were people pretty
00:09:23.259 --> 00:09:26.600
dressed up? Oh, yeah. I mean, you have your nicest
00:09:26.600 --> 00:09:30.039
outfits on. So dresses and heels. No, it was
00:09:30.039 --> 00:09:32.720
more like skirts and sweaters and knee socks.
00:09:32.899 --> 00:09:36.340
Knee socks in those days. And loafers. Like poodle
00:09:36.340 --> 00:09:38.919
skirts? Or is that not the right? Polo shirts.
00:09:39.159 --> 00:09:41.279
Those shirts poodle skirts. No, I'm just trying
00:09:41.279 --> 00:09:43.419
to think of when it was in the 19 No, they were
00:09:43.419 --> 00:09:45.879
they were straight skirts. They were short skirts
00:09:45.879 --> 00:09:49.700
a little bit above the knee with With knee socks
00:09:49.700 --> 00:09:52.179
that was this style pencil like pencil skirt.
00:09:52.200 --> 00:09:56.639
No look preppy Pencil skirts are longer. Are
00:09:56.639 --> 00:09:59.059
they I don't I don't know don't ask don't ask
00:09:59.059 --> 00:10:03.179
me I barely wear more than jeans. So I was exactly
00:10:03.179 --> 00:10:05.610
the opposite of that I didn't do any of that.
00:10:06.070 --> 00:10:08.409
One of my friends, I was in the men's dorm my
00:10:08.409 --> 00:10:10.490
freshman year and one of my good friends, Eric
00:10:10.490 --> 00:10:13.490
Trotter, got interested in acacia fraternity
00:10:13.490 --> 00:10:15.629
and so he started going over there and he ended
00:10:15.629 --> 00:10:17.950
up pledging. He invited me to come over there
00:10:17.950 --> 00:10:21.490
one time with him and I came over there and they
00:10:21.490 --> 00:10:23.649
like me and I like them so that's the only place
00:10:23.649 --> 00:10:26.809
I ever went. Oh wow, okay. That was very different
00:10:26.809 --> 00:10:29.470
than what she did. So did you pledge your freshman
00:10:29.470 --> 00:10:33.659
year? No, I'm I'm an advanced sophomore, so actually
00:10:33.659 --> 00:10:37.080
it's a disadvantage for me. They would prefer
00:10:37.080 --> 00:10:40.580
you be a freshman. But anyway, I ended up being
00:10:40.580 --> 00:10:43.820
invited to pledge Alpha Phi, which was a good
00:10:43.820 --> 00:10:46.440
sorority, and I really enjoyed the time there.
00:10:46.700 --> 00:10:50.529
What does Alpha Phi mean? That's the Greek letters.
00:10:50.990 --> 00:10:53.330
It's a Greek... Well, I thought maybe they had
00:10:53.330 --> 00:10:56.230
meanings. Apparently, I have no background in
00:10:56.230 --> 00:11:01.269
sororities and fraternities. And Greek. That's
00:11:01.269 --> 00:11:04.789
true. It's Greek to me. You memorize the Greek
00:11:04.789 --> 00:11:07.190
alphabet. You know, the sororities and fraternities
00:11:07.190 --> 00:11:09.809
have a lot that you learn, and they always sing
00:11:09.809 --> 00:11:12.929
at meal time. They have a lot of songs. So you
00:11:12.929 --> 00:11:15.470
eat dinner together. Oh, you have all these meals
00:11:15.470 --> 00:11:17.649
together. They have all the Greek alphabet. You've
00:11:17.649 --> 00:11:20.750
got tridel, you've got phi, beta, gamma. They're
00:11:20.750 --> 00:11:23.570
all by Greek. That's the name of the fraternities
00:11:23.570 --> 00:11:27.990
and sororities. What do they mean? And there's
00:11:27.990 --> 00:11:30.850
lots of different chapters, like some of the
00:11:30.850 --> 00:11:33.529
chapters that they have. There's the same chapter
00:11:33.529 --> 00:11:37.129
at another school. Absolutely. There are 17 colleges
00:11:37.129 --> 00:11:39.370
and universities. And they're going to write
00:11:39.370 --> 00:11:43.990
their own chapter. I don't know why. I think
00:11:43.990 --> 00:11:48.070
I ate that cupcake that gave me a little sugar
00:11:48.070 --> 00:11:54.830
buzz. Okay. Sorry. Okay. So now the sorority
00:11:54.830 --> 00:11:58.009
that you pledged, was that were, was that kind
00:11:58.009 --> 00:12:00.169
of a brother or sister type of a sorority or
00:12:00.169 --> 00:12:04.409
no? Well, they asked us to have the Acacia, Acacia,
00:12:04.429 --> 00:12:08.830
I asked the alpha fee to have an exchange and
00:12:08.830 --> 00:12:12.230
that meant we went over to their fraternity and
00:12:12.230 --> 00:12:15.090
uh, Guess we've just basically hung out with
00:12:15.090 --> 00:12:17.090
them. Yeah, just met each other and he would
00:12:17.090 --> 00:12:19.830
do it They would do maybe several different sororities.
00:12:19.909 --> 00:12:23.309
They would meet with and just They weren't brother
00:12:23.309 --> 00:12:25.190
sister, but you know, they just had would do
00:12:25.190 --> 00:12:27.830
an exchange and we did it with several different
00:12:27.830 --> 00:12:29.750
sororities And you just have an opportunity to
00:12:29.750 --> 00:12:32.990
meet people sure sure that makes sense in doing
00:12:32.990 --> 00:12:35.110
because I was going to say in doing that, that's
00:12:35.110 --> 00:12:37.370
isn't that how you all met? I mean, that's what
00:12:37.370 --> 00:12:39.590
so this is where this is the fun part, because
00:12:39.590 --> 00:12:40.990
this is what I want to hear. Wait, I want to
00:12:40.990 --> 00:12:43.190
hear what they like in your sororities, because
00:12:43.190 --> 00:12:45.490
this is going to be impactful. Did you guys like
00:12:45.490 --> 00:12:48.570
have different positions in your priority sororities
00:12:48.570 --> 00:12:50.549
and fraternities like, you know, like, were you
00:12:50.549 --> 00:12:54.629
a singer or weren't you a singer, Mimi? Well,
00:12:54.850 --> 00:12:58.830
the way the singers did was they had an understudy
00:12:58.830 --> 00:13:04.190
to and. I sang for the pledging. So when people
00:13:04.190 --> 00:13:07.009
would go through, they would sing their the whole
00:13:07.009 --> 00:13:10.070
repertoire of songs. And I was seeing like solos.
00:13:10.169 --> 00:13:14.070
I would sing. That was my solo. Oh. And then
00:13:14.070 --> 00:13:16.429
they then they would sing the other songs because
00:13:16.429 --> 00:13:19.350
singing is a big deal. And the sororities and
00:13:19.350 --> 00:13:21.509
fraternities. They had all their songs, too.
00:13:22.269 --> 00:13:26.690
So were you a singer, Hopper? Yeah. Oh, not but
00:13:26.690 --> 00:13:30.610
not a. Only when we got pinned, not on other
00:13:30.610 --> 00:13:34.129
occasions, I wasn't, no. He didn't hear him singing
00:13:34.129 --> 00:13:37.490
in the shower and ask him. He was a treasurer,
00:13:37.529 --> 00:13:39.529
I believe, secretary or something. He was the
00:13:39.529 --> 00:13:42.370
cook, I know that. Oh yeah, you served food too.
00:13:42.929 --> 00:13:47.509
Well, to help pay for the cost of going to school,
00:13:47.990 --> 00:13:49.730
when you're in, at least in the fraternity I
00:13:49.730 --> 00:13:53.759
was in, you could... be part of the crew working
00:13:53.759 --> 00:13:56.320
in the kitchen to help serve the meals and clean
00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:58.340
up afterwards. And if you do that, it would take
00:13:58.340 --> 00:14:00.960
care of all of your meals expense by doing that.
00:14:01.240 --> 00:14:04.440
So I started doing that when my first year in
00:14:04.440 --> 00:14:07.279
sorority, which was my sophomore year, I kind
00:14:07.279 --> 00:14:09.399
of pledge at the end of the freshman year. And
00:14:09.399 --> 00:14:11.340
then you go through initiation at the beginning
00:14:11.340 --> 00:14:14.419
of the sophomore year. So then I was in the fraternity
00:14:14.419 --> 00:14:16.840
for the next three years. But yeah, I did work
00:14:16.840 --> 00:14:20.620
as a, they call it a waiter. Yeah. Well, Hey,
00:14:20.799 --> 00:14:23.200
it's the, the food cost is that significant.
00:14:23.340 --> 00:14:26.799
I mean, I see what Abby's it's not. It sounds
00:14:26.799 --> 00:14:29.299
like you had a nice like cooked meal though.
00:14:29.399 --> 00:14:32.419
I had a big table. That's kind of a nice environment.
00:14:32.679 --> 00:14:34.879
That's kind of unusual. They were large dining
00:14:34.879 --> 00:14:38.940
rooms with round tables and it was, it was very,
00:14:38.940 --> 00:14:42.679
um, almost formal. The food was served. Yeah.
00:14:43.120 --> 00:14:46.879
I'm not sure who served it, but, uh, Well, I
00:14:46.879 --> 00:14:49.480
served it in the fraternity. There were three
00:14:49.480 --> 00:14:52.200
or four of us that worked as waiters and we served
00:14:52.200 --> 00:14:55.620
the lunches and the dinners. So they had cooks
00:14:55.620 --> 00:14:58.019
for each one then. Yes. I'm so interested in
00:14:58.019 --> 00:14:59.940
this because it sounds like such a lovely way
00:14:59.940 --> 00:15:02.700
of living. But I'll tell you, when we did have
00:15:02.700 --> 00:15:06.779
that exchange, we did meet and he asked me to
00:15:06.779 --> 00:15:10.440
go out on a date then. Okay. All right. So when
00:15:10.440 --> 00:15:14.639
it was the, it was the meetup, the meet. The
00:15:14.639 --> 00:15:19.240
exchange when y 'all were doing the exchange
00:15:19.240 --> 00:15:22.419
with them, is that when y 'all two met? Well,
00:15:22.580 --> 00:15:25.120
not technically because she was with somebody
00:15:25.120 --> 00:15:30.000
else and I was with somebody else. He saw me.
00:15:32.679 --> 00:15:36.539
It was my roommate. Yeah. My roommate's boyfriend
00:15:36.539 --> 00:15:40.000
was Papa's friend. Yeah. And so that's how I
00:15:40.000 --> 00:15:42.340
got. got her phone number or they got the number
00:15:42.340 --> 00:15:44.220
at the fraternity because you know phones they
00:15:44.220 --> 00:15:47.840
have cell phones back then but you had like there
00:15:47.840 --> 00:15:51.100
was a house phone a house phone so they called
00:15:51.100 --> 00:15:53.779
on the house phone so like everybody shared that
00:15:53.779 --> 00:15:56.940
one phone yes yes wow that's the way it was in
00:15:56.940 --> 00:16:00.299
those days so let's go jump to the first date
00:16:00.299 --> 00:16:03.460
so how'd you ask her out did you call and yeah
00:16:03.460 --> 00:16:05.779
i called her and then we were gonna meet for
00:16:05.779 --> 00:16:08.940
a uh i guess you call it a coke date because
00:16:08.940 --> 00:16:11.080
neither one of us drank coffee That's not a drug
00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:14.559
people. That is called Coca -Cola. It was a Coca
00:16:14.559 --> 00:16:16.679
-Cola. It was a Coca -Cola date. That's right.
00:16:17.220 --> 00:16:21.460
But it was somewhat concerning because I borrowed
00:16:21.460 --> 00:16:26.000
my roommate's shoes, Dolores's shoes, and they
00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:29.840
were quite slippery on the bottom. And the sorority,
00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:34.039
I came down from my second floor room. The top
00:16:34.039 --> 00:16:35.820
floor room down the stairs. Yeah, I came down
00:16:35.820 --> 00:16:39.289
the stairway and about three quarters of the
00:16:39.289 --> 00:16:44.610
way down there, I slipped to my knees and slid
00:16:44.610 --> 00:16:46.950
the rest of the way on my knees down the stairs
00:16:46.950 --> 00:16:52.220
and landed at Mark's feet. That is fantastic.
00:16:52.559 --> 00:16:55.340
I scrambled to my feet. Oh, I bet you were hurting.
00:16:55.360 --> 00:16:58.919
My nylons were all torn up. Oh, my knees. And
00:16:58.919 --> 00:17:01.580
I ran back up the stairs to change my clothes
00:17:01.580 --> 00:17:04.559
and then I came back down safely. Oh boy. Could
00:17:04.559 --> 00:17:06.440
you change shoes too? My reverse appearance.
00:17:06.619 --> 00:17:10.559
Pretty impressive. She fell on my feet. He must
00:17:10.559 --> 00:17:14.599
have been smitten by him. That's so good. That
00:17:14.599 --> 00:17:18.509
sounds painful too. I can't remember. There were
00:17:18.509 --> 00:17:21.710
carpeted stairs. Oh, okay. That's why she slipped.
00:17:22.210 --> 00:17:24.670
How did you slip on the carpet? Oh, they weren't
00:17:24.670 --> 00:17:26.670
carpet. No, it was hardwood. Oh, hardwood floor?
00:17:26.670 --> 00:17:29.349
Hardwood. Well, that was the day when we wore
00:17:29.349 --> 00:17:31.309
nylons, because I wore them high school, too.
00:17:31.430 --> 00:17:35.690
It's like you rip those things up. Yeah. No nail
00:17:35.690 --> 00:17:37.750
polish is going to fix those. But you know what?
00:17:38.009 --> 00:17:43.910
The date was December 12th, 1966. And that is
00:17:43.910 --> 00:17:47.500
an important date. December 12th. Isn't that
00:17:47.500 --> 00:17:50.480
Steve's birthday? Because it would be that three
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:52.759
years to the day. Three years to the day you
00:17:52.759 --> 00:17:55.900
had Steve. That's funny. So it was a prophetic
00:17:55.900 --> 00:17:59.279
time. We didn't even realize it. That first date.
00:17:59.900 --> 00:18:02.519
And most of our conversation consisted of talking
00:18:02.519 --> 00:18:05.480
about the evils of smoking. We both thought smoking
00:18:05.480 --> 00:18:08.500
was really nasty. And so we kept talking about
00:18:08.500 --> 00:18:11.359
how nasty smoking was. That was the big topic.
00:18:11.519 --> 00:18:14.240
Oh, that's funny. Where did you go? Thunderbird.
00:18:14.349 --> 00:18:18.029
Yeah, Thunderbird, which is a little cafe restaurant
00:18:18.029 --> 00:18:20.869
right next to campus, right near campus. So did
00:18:20.869 --> 00:18:22.869
you feel bad for her when she fell at your feet?
00:18:23.089 --> 00:18:24.769
Was it like a shock? I was embarrassed for her
00:18:24.769 --> 00:18:27.269
because I know she was embarrassed. Right. Yeah.
00:18:27.990 --> 00:18:30.190
Did you dress up too? I mean, was that pretty
00:18:30.190 --> 00:18:34.029
standard to dress up on a date or? Well, I probably
00:18:34.029 --> 00:18:37.829
just had on a nice shirt and slacks. I mean,
00:18:37.930 --> 00:18:39.630
you weren't dressed up formally or anything.
00:18:39.809 --> 00:18:42.970
But I think back in those days, people dressed
00:18:43.099 --> 00:18:45.259
Better than they do now. Oh, sure. That's what
00:18:45.259 --> 00:18:47.779
I mean. Like your casuals like nice for some
00:18:47.779 --> 00:18:50.660
people. Yeah, the quote on today. It'd be a nice
00:18:50.660 --> 00:18:52.940
pair of dockers and a nice shirt. Sure. I know
00:18:52.940 --> 00:18:57.589
what I'd wear. Sure. And she had on a dress skirt
00:18:57.589 --> 00:19:00.690
shirt. Yeah, but that's like you change the shoes
00:19:00.690 --> 00:19:02.750
when you went back up. I think I gave them back
00:19:02.750 --> 00:19:08.589
to Dolores dance major. Dolores really, really
00:19:08.589 --> 00:19:13.200
slipped. Zobel. You're out there, Dolores. That's
00:19:13.200 --> 00:19:15.940
funny. Thanks for bringing them together. No,
00:19:15.980 --> 00:19:19.519
that's but but honestly That's the kind of moment
00:19:19.519 --> 00:19:22.240
that it's the one that gets that moment that
00:19:22.240 --> 00:19:24.500
characterizes the way it started because you
00:19:24.500 --> 00:19:27.259
know You I've heard people to say oh, well, I
00:19:27.259 --> 00:19:28.619
asked her out on a date. We're gonna date. It
00:19:28.619 --> 00:19:31.460
was great date That's it. But you have a little
00:19:31.460 --> 00:19:33.740
memorable moment It's nice to have those little
00:19:33.740 --> 00:19:37.380
markers that that you have to as as embarrassing
00:19:37.380 --> 00:19:40.460
as it was at the time It's it's a fun little
00:19:40.940 --> 00:19:43.839
tidbit that you have now. I love that. I think
00:19:43.839 --> 00:19:45.740
it's great. So on your first date, was it kind
00:19:45.740 --> 00:19:47.700
of, so since you're, you were from California
00:19:47.700 --> 00:19:49.960
and you were from Midwest, more Illinois, was
00:19:49.960 --> 00:19:52.880
it kind of, you kind of came from different worlds?
00:19:53.220 --> 00:19:55.299
She's from Kansas too though, a little bit. She's
00:19:55.299 --> 00:19:57.299
got some of that Midwesterner in her. Oh, that's
00:19:57.299 --> 00:20:00.579
true. That's true. You grew up partially in Kansas.
00:20:00.759 --> 00:20:02.700
Yeah. What was, what was that? How long were
00:20:02.700 --> 00:20:05.140
you in Kansas? And then when did you go to California
00:20:05.140 --> 00:20:08.579
before? When I was two years old, my mom and
00:20:08.579 --> 00:20:11.849
dad moved to California. Okay, so I spent most
00:20:11.849 --> 00:20:14.269
of my life in California except for when we'd
00:20:14.269 --> 00:20:17.990
visit our grandparents in Florence, Kansas in
00:20:17.990 --> 00:20:20.509
the summer for maybe two weeks or at Christmas
00:20:20.509 --> 00:20:23.390
or when my mom and dad were getting a divorce
00:20:23.390 --> 00:20:28.269
I would take the train between Kansas and California
00:20:28.269 --> 00:20:31.309
quite frequently and I must say I attribute my
00:20:31.309 --> 00:20:33.789
traveling skills to those days. I learned how
00:20:33.789 --> 00:20:36.210
to travel on the trains by myself. Wow. How old
00:20:36.210 --> 00:20:39.609
were you when you traveled? I was probably 11
00:20:39.609 --> 00:20:42.650
and 12. I traveled. I can't imagine having my
00:20:42.650 --> 00:20:44.789
daughter travel on a train by herself. It was
00:20:44.789 --> 00:20:47.490
common in those days. It was a different life.
00:20:47.529 --> 00:20:49.490
It was a different life. I mean, even different
00:20:49.490 --> 00:20:51.690
than when we were kids now. It's different now.
00:20:51.690 --> 00:20:54.990
And there was a dome car. It was classy. Oh,
00:20:55.009 --> 00:20:57.910
yeah. It was a beautiful. You could sit in that
00:20:57.910 --> 00:21:01.190
dome car and wind through the mountains of Colorado
00:21:01.190 --> 00:21:04.950
and New Mexico and Arizona. I tell you what,
00:21:05.069 --> 00:21:08.809
it was, I enjoy the train trips. So you eat your
00:21:08.809 --> 00:21:10.529
whole meal, you eat your meals there and you
00:21:10.529 --> 00:21:14.049
sleep, is there a place to sleep? It's a chair
00:21:14.049 --> 00:21:17.609
like a plane. Okay. And you just recline a little
00:21:17.609 --> 00:21:20.069
bit. Okay, so it's just like kind of a, okay.
00:21:20.190 --> 00:21:22.970
How long were those trips, how long would they
00:21:22.970 --> 00:21:27.700
take? I would say, They would be 48 hours. Okay.
00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:30.279
So it would be two full, you know, you'd sleep.
00:21:30.279 --> 00:21:33.420
One night and two days. Okay. Gotcha. Gotcha.
00:21:33.779 --> 00:21:35.420
I looked into doing that one time, but it was
00:21:35.420 --> 00:21:37.160
the same price as an airplane. I thought it'd
00:21:37.160 --> 00:21:39.880
be cheaper, but I mean, it'd be interesting to
00:21:39.880 --> 00:21:42.000
do one of those trips. I bet it was fun as a
00:21:42.000 --> 00:21:44.839
kid, like adventuresome. It was, and I met all
00:21:44.839 --> 00:21:47.579
kinds of people. I mean, I would meet other kids
00:21:47.579 --> 00:21:50.420
who were traveling too. That's incredible. Well,
00:21:50.440 --> 00:21:54.579
okay. So, so you go out on your first Coke date.
00:21:54.779 --> 00:21:57.119
First, you, Mimi, what were your impressions
00:21:57.119 --> 00:22:01.099
of Mark? Well, I thought he was a nice boy. I
00:22:01.099 --> 00:22:04.119
mean, I really, I didn't have any strong feelings
00:22:04.119 --> 00:22:07.119
about him. I just thought he was a nice person.
00:22:08.140 --> 00:22:11.380
But my roommate, one of my other roommates, Kathy
00:22:11.380 --> 00:22:15.660
Becker, I mean, the girls in my sorority really
00:22:15.660 --> 00:22:18.890
thought he was hot. Oh, hey. Oh, yes. And they
00:22:18.890 --> 00:22:20.970
were, they really wanted to go out with him and
00:22:20.970 --> 00:22:23.630
he, he wasn't interested in them. So I was a
00:22:23.630 --> 00:22:30.529
shy young man, shy young man. That's awesome.
00:22:31.390 --> 00:22:34.549
So were they, did, were these sorority sisters
00:22:34.549 --> 00:22:37.890
really jealous of you? I don't know, but I really
00:22:37.890 --> 00:22:40.509
did have some good friends there. I liked them
00:22:40.509 --> 00:22:44.319
very much. That's awesome. It was not love at
00:22:44.319 --> 00:22:46.160
first sight for either one of us, you know, some
00:22:46.160 --> 00:22:48.140
people say well I know that's the person I'm
00:22:48.140 --> 00:22:50.220
gonna marry right that lightning that was not
00:22:50.220 --> 00:22:53.880
the case but we you know, we started going out
00:22:53.880 --> 00:22:56.420
we carried it to get to know each other better
00:22:56.420 --> 00:22:59.559
and so like you Don't liked each other enough
00:22:59.559 --> 00:23:02.440
to go on a second date and a third date. I guess
00:23:02.440 --> 00:23:06.339
Yeah, so when did it when did it go from you
00:23:06.339 --> 00:23:09.000
to just sort of oh, I this is a nice girl I think
00:23:09.000 --> 00:23:12.890
I want to ask her out to you Really saw a future
00:23:12.890 --> 00:23:16.069
with Jan You know, I don't know exactly when
00:23:16.069 --> 00:23:18.309
that was I don't remember when that was we just
00:23:18.309 --> 00:23:20.849
started going out more and more and more and
00:23:20.849 --> 00:23:23.829
just realized that And neither one of us had
00:23:23.829 --> 00:23:27.589
been dating around a lot or anything And so it
00:23:27.589 --> 00:23:31.609
I think it just did you meet me? Mimi was dating
00:23:31.609 --> 00:23:38.910
but Papa was not I Don't want to lie You took
00:23:38.910 --> 00:23:42.950
the truth serum, a cupcake. Apparently that's
00:23:42.950 --> 00:23:45.470
the worst truth serum. I did have a couple other
00:23:45.470 --> 00:23:50.950
boyfriends at the time. Okay, this is where it
00:23:50.950 --> 00:23:54.619
gets good. So he was number three. I couldn't
00:23:54.619 --> 00:23:58.059
make up my mind, but anyway, that's just the
00:23:58.059 --> 00:24:02.180
way it was. So this was your sophomore year,
00:24:02.240 --> 00:24:03.900
both of your sophomore years, even though it
00:24:03.900 --> 00:24:06.160
was your freshman year, you started dating or
00:24:06.160 --> 00:24:08.140
what year was it that you started dating? Sophomore.
00:24:08.430 --> 00:24:13.950
Okay. And I'm an old sophomore. I think you're
00:24:13.950 --> 00:24:16.990
older than Papa, is that right? That is true.
00:24:17.769 --> 00:24:21.890
We've taken the Truth serum. I am a year and
00:24:21.890 --> 00:24:27.529
eight months older than Mark. But you asked how
00:24:27.529 --> 00:24:31.269
our relationship progressed. His fraternity had
00:24:31.269 --> 00:24:36.579
something at Kickapoo State Park. It seemed to
00:24:36.579 --> 00:24:41.329
be that Kickapoo was the turning point. Well,
00:24:41.690 --> 00:24:45.470
that's when he asked me to wear his pin. And
00:24:45.470 --> 00:24:48.430
that's a big deal for a fraternity guy. Oh, for
00:24:48.430 --> 00:24:51.150
sure. To give you his pin. So it was a fraternity
00:24:51.150 --> 00:24:56.029
pin. Yes, I wonder where that is. It's probably
00:24:56.029 --> 00:25:00.809
in the jewelry box someplace. Anyway. He asked
00:25:00.809 --> 00:25:03.390
me to wear his pin at the Kickapoo State Park.
00:25:03.549 --> 00:25:06.609
And that would be like going steady. Sure, sure.
00:25:06.650 --> 00:25:09.789
Or like your high school ring or something. Oh
00:25:09.789 --> 00:25:13.809
yes. Yeah, no, I did know in Greek life, that's
00:25:13.809 --> 00:25:16.750
a big deal. A pinning ceremony is a big deal.
00:25:16.789 --> 00:25:20.829
And that's when you have the meet and she was
00:25:20.829 --> 00:25:24.230
going to sing the song. Well, so all the Keisha
00:25:24.230 --> 00:25:27.390
guys come over to our house and they all lined
00:25:27.390 --> 00:25:30.849
up and there's a balcony and I come out on the
00:25:30.849 --> 00:25:34.549
balcony with all my girls and my sorority sisters
00:25:34.549 --> 00:25:38.430
are singing and I really was not strong enough
00:25:38.430 --> 00:25:41.569
to sing the song. So I ask. My understudy. Who
00:25:41.569 --> 00:25:45.410
was her name? Alfie. Alfie to sing. She would
00:25:45.410 --> 00:25:47.690
always sing for me because I usually chickened
00:25:47.690 --> 00:25:50.650
out, truthfully. Thank you, Alfie. And so she
00:25:50.650 --> 00:25:53.710
sang, Alfie Feman, but Papa didn't chicken out
00:25:53.710 --> 00:25:56.690
and he sang to me. Oh. That was so good. What
00:25:56.690 --> 00:26:00.750
was it? Acacia Sweetheart. Nighty night. No,
00:26:00.789 --> 00:26:02.490
really? So they're really sweet words. Do you
00:26:02.490 --> 00:26:04.650
know these are just all like songs you have in
00:26:04.650 --> 00:26:08.250
the repertoire for your. Yes. Okay. So he's saying
00:26:08.250 --> 00:26:11.529
in front of all his guys, probably 70 guys. Yeah,
00:26:11.650 --> 00:26:14.609
something like that. And my girl's probably the
00:26:14.609 --> 00:26:16.609
same. It was a big ceremony. They would do it
00:26:16.609 --> 00:26:19.309
anytime. Well, now was this, and this was just
00:26:19.309 --> 00:26:21.769
your pinning ceremony, right? So you do that
00:26:21.769 --> 00:26:25.630
and you do this for everybody who pins their,
00:26:25.630 --> 00:26:27.869
their girlfriend or whatever. But this is the
00:26:27.869 --> 00:26:30.210
only pinning ceremony I've ever been to. They
00:26:30.210 --> 00:26:33.589
weren't that common. Wow. That's what made you
00:26:33.589 --> 00:26:36.569
decide to do the public pinning. I didn't know
00:26:36.569 --> 00:26:41.750
we had a choice. Oh, that's that. I love that.
00:26:42.509 --> 00:26:44.529
He wasn't shy at all. And I was really proud
00:26:44.529 --> 00:26:48.029
of him. Well, you know, I was the I was the secretary
00:26:48.029 --> 00:26:51.309
of the fraternity. So like I was I was a person
00:26:51.309 --> 00:26:53.349
taking the notes of all the business meetings
00:26:53.349 --> 00:26:55.269
and everything else like that. So I had an officer
00:26:55.269 --> 00:26:58.390
position. So maybe that's why they That's why
00:26:58.390 --> 00:27:00.089
they made a bigger deal out of it. Oh sure, I
00:27:00.089 --> 00:27:01.410
can understand that. But there was something
00:27:01.410 --> 00:27:04.910
I really liked about Mark. What was it? He was
00:27:04.910 --> 00:27:07.890
nice to the cook and her name was Willie May
00:27:07.890 --> 00:27:12.869
and he was always so nice to Willie May and that
00:27:12.869 --> 00:27:16.349
really impressed me that he showed her such respect.
00:27:16.829 --> 00:27:18.730
A lot of the guys just made fun of her all the
00:27:18.730 --> 00:27:22.089
time. That troubled me. I thought that is not
00:27:22.089 --> 00:27:25.109
right. They should be showing the cook respect
00:27:25.109 --> 00:27:28.829
and so... She could poison your food. Yeah, don't
00:27:28.829 --> 00:27:31.710
mess with the cook. She actually, I think we
00:27:31.710 --> 00:27:34.089
discovered later that she was a Christian. Oh
00:27:34.089 --> 00:27:36.930
wow. Yeah, and Mark really showed her respect.
00:27:37.230 --> 00:27:38.990
I think it would be hard to cook for that many
00:27:38.990 --> 00:27:42.569
people. Work hard. She's cooking big meals, yeah.
00:27:43.910 --> 00:27:47.210
Everything was from scratch back then too. I
00:27:47.210 --> 00:27:49.910
just want to put that in so okay, so I don't
00:27:49.910 --> 00:27:52.450
exactly know the world of Greek life But did
00:27:52.450 --> 00:27:56.289
you have like was there a house mother or anything
00:27:56.289 --> 00:27:59.210
like that? That that how how did that work? Yes,
00:27:59.430 --> 00:28:03.390
there was a house mother at at Alpha Phi, but
00:28:03.390 --> 00:28:05.930
I don't know if there was one at Acacia I think
00:28:05.930 --> 00:28:09.289
they had one at Acacia, but she wasn't she wasn't
00:28:09.289 --> 00:28:12.470
on premise or anything like that So not not that
00:28:12.470 --> 00:28:16.119
I wasn't a house father. It was a no, okay Do
00:28:16.119 --> 00:28:18.420
they have to all supervised? So do they have
00:28:18.420 --> 00:28:22.369
to like approve of who you're dating? No, no,
00:28:22.369 --> 00:28:25.990
no, no, there were hours though. I mean you,
00:28:26.190 --> 00:28:29.089
you do have curfew. Sure. Sure. Just like any
00:28:29.089 --> 00:28:31.869
college in those days. Right? No, ours did. And
00:28:31.869 --> 00:28:34.549
then it changed. The women did, the men didn't.
00:28:34.769 --> 00:28:37.750
Gotcha. And so your, your house mother, did she
00:28:37.750 --> 00:28:40.049
actually live in the house? Yes, she did. She
00:28:40.049 --> 00:28:43.769
had her, you know, her suite downstairs. Okay.
00:28:43.900 --> 00:28:46.740
It would be like a lovely mansion house. And
00:28:46.740 --> 00:28:49.900
it definitely wasn't one of the nicest sorority
00:28:49.900 --> 00:28:54.279
houses. Right. But they're big because many of
00:28:54.279 --> 00:28:58.299
you live in it. How many people? I'm not sure,
00:28:58.500 --> 00:29:00.980
but I will, I think I've mentioned to you before,
00:29:01.059 --> 00:29:03.980
we had a sleeping dorm on the top floor. It would
00:29:03.980 --> 00:29:07.079
be the third floor. That sounds glorious. With
00:29:07.079 --> 00:29:10.279
all those, with beds up there with electric blankets
00:29:10.279 --> 00:29:12.920
and the windows were opened by the ordinance.
00:29:13.720 --> 00:29:15.839
And that was quite, I thought that was wonderful
00:29:15.839 --> 00:29:17.559
to have a sleeping dorm because it was, you're
00:29:17.559 --> 00:29:19.940
always guaranteed of a quiet place to sleep.
00:29:20.079 --> 00:29:23.559
Oh yeah, that's nice. And cool. Yeah, it was
00:29:23.559 --> 00:29:28.970
cold. Yeah, very cold. In our sleeping dorm,
00:29:29.170 --> 00:29:31.150
the guys are by the window sometimes in winter
00:29:31.150 --> 00:29:32.950
to wake up there be a little snow on the end
00:29:32.950 --> 00:29:35.869
of your bed. Yeah. Oh, that's right. Windows
00:29:35.869 --> 00:29:38.450
are open if you're by the window. Sure. So then
00:29:38.450 --> 00:29:41.190
you had your rooms as well that were down low.
00:29:41.230 --> 00:29:45.539
So your rooms had like what a couple of desks
00:29:45.539 --> 00:29:47.740
and chairs and stuff like that. You had a usually
00:29:47.740 --> 00:29:49.460
had a roommate. You didn't have a room by yourself.
00:29:49.500 --> 00:29:52.660
And so we had different roommates and that's
00:29:52.660 --> 00:29:54.599
where you'd have all your books and your do your
00:29:54.599 --> 00:29:57.759
study and things like that. I had a big room.
00:29:57.779 --> 00:30:00.500
I had two roommates I had everybody wanted to
00:30:00.500 --> 00:30:03.079
be in my room because it was such a big room
00:30:03.079 --> 00:30:07.339
and it had a balcony and it was really great
00:30:07.339 --> 00:30:10.740
I People would hang out in your room. That's
00:30:10.740 --> 00:30:13.059
basically what they did sure you hang out and
00:30:13.059 --> 00:30:16.650
either you're in the different rooms So when
00:30:16.650 --> 00:30:19.589
was the actual painting ceremony? Are y 'all
00:30:19.589 --> 00:30:21.710
still in your sophomore year or are y 'all passed
00:30:21.710 --> 00:30:23.549
back into your junior or anything like that?
00:30:23.569 --> 00:30:27.009
I'm not sure. But y 'all dated all the way through
00:30:27.009 --> 00:30:30.069
college. When did y 'all get married, first of
00:30:30.069 --> 00:30:32.470
all? Was that after college or y 'all still in
00:30:32.470 --> 00:30:37.329
college? No, it was the end of what had been
00:30:37.329 --> 00:30:40.329
our fourth year but we both had another semester
00:30:40.329 --> 00:30:42.710
to go. That's right. I remember you talking about
00:30:42.710 --> 00:30:45.250
that. I switched majors. I started out in liberal
00:30:45.250 --> 00:30:47.880
arts and not knowing really, really. what I wanted
00:30:47.880 --> 00:30:50.480
to do. And in my freshman year, I switched to
00:30:50.480 --> 00:30:53.740
business. I had taken two semesters of Spanish
00:30:53.740 --> 00:30:55.859
and some other stuff that didn't count toward
00:30:55.859 --> 00:30:57.680
a business degree. So I knew I was going to have
00:30:57.680 --> 00:31:00.680
to go an extra semester. Gotcha. She wasn't done
00:31:00.680 --> 00:31:03.740
either. So we got married from business to liberal
00:31:03.740 --> 00:31:08.859
arts. So at the end of our that fourth year,
00:31:09.059 --> 00:31:12.390
we got married in August. Okay. And then we went,
00:31:12.390 --> 00:31:15.250
we started back in school in September and finished
00:31:15.250 --> 00:31:17.529
that last semester. Oh, gotcha. So you graduated
00:31:17.529 --> 00:31:20.289
like December. I just graduated in January. Back
00:31:20.289 --> 00:31:23.450
in those days. That's what's so bad. Oh, I remember
00:31:23.450 --> 00:31:25.430
hearing this. This is terrible. You have all
00:31:25.430 --> 00:31:28.250
your finals and papers are due after Christmas
00:31:28.250 --> 00:31:31.210
vacation. What in the world? I mean, everything
00:31:31.210 --> 00:31:34.390
home for Christmas. That's that makes no sense
00:31:34.390 --> 00:31:38.269
to me. That's what it is. Oh, you know what?
00:31:38.470 --> 00:31:41.190
We're home for Christmas. I'm gonna get this
00:31:41.190 --> 00:31:44.549
done right away so I can enjoy my vacation When
00:31:44.549 --> 00:31:47.430
do you get it done the day before you go tomorrow?
00:31:47.789 --> 00:31:52.190
No, not no the day after you get back That's
00:31:52.190 --> 00:31:55.170
pulling all -nighters, I'm sure I never pull
00:31:55.170 --> 00:31:58.130
in all a night study for that final a lot. Yep.
00:31:58.250 --> 00:32:01.890
Yep. Oh, that's so it's so true So how'd you
00:32:01.890 --> 00:32:04.309
get engaged though? We need to rewind a little
00:32:04.309 --> 00:32:06.809
bit. I do I was wondering when New Year's Eve
00:32:07.019 --> 00:32:10.400
Yeah, New Year's Eve. He came. So when does so
00:32:10.400 --> 00:32:13.099
give me give us that story for Mimi. Tell me
00:32:13.099 --> 00:32:15.359
now I want to hear a little bit of your side
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:19.140
of it. Papa would always come up to Park Ridge,
00:32:19.299 --> 00:32:22.940
Illinois to visit me as often as he could. And
00:32:22.940 --> 00:32:27.619
so this one Christmas he planned to ask me to
00:32:27.619 --> 00:32:31.819
marry him. And I can't I'm sure you talked with
00:32:31.819 --> 00:32:35.579
mom before that. Yeah. So we got engaged on New
00:32:35.579 --> 00:32:38.220
Year's Eve. And I think some of our friends came
00:32:38.220 --> 00:32:41.160
over too. No ring. I just can't remember. No
00:32:41.160 --> 00:32:45.400
ring? Wouldn't have any money. Oh boy. I mean,
00:32:45.400 --> 00:32:47.500
I'm still in school. She had the pin though.
00:32:47.799 --> 00:32:50.799
Working summer jobs. She never had an engagement
00:32:50.799 --> 00:32:55.619
ring. Gotcha. So this was the New Year's before
00:32:55.619 --> 00:32:57.700
the August that you got married? Is that the
00:32:57.700 --> 00:33:02.569
one? Yes. Okay. We think so. We think so. It's
00:33:02.569 --> 00:33:07.420
been a while. It has. Well, I just remember Because
00:33:07.420 --> 00:33:10.160
you know how I sit here and I listen to your
00:33:10.160 --> 00:33:13.180
story and so my brain starts trying to picture
00:33:13.180 --> 00:33:16.099
where you all are and like picture you in the
00:33:16.099 --> 00:33:18.880
dorm, picture you in your sorority house and
00:33:18.880 --> 00:33:22.400
you in your fraternity house and picture Papa
00:33:22.400 --> 00:33:24.720
being the waiter for his fraternity brothers
00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:26.299
and you know, I just kind of get this mental.
00:33:26.299 --> 00:33:27.779
Singing on the balcony. Yeah, singing on the
00:33:27.779 --> 00:33:29.759
balcony. I get the whole mental picture. But
00:33:29.759 --> 00:33:33.759
because my first. introduction to A Christmas
00:33:33.759 --> 00:33:37.579
in Chicago was right after we got married and
00:33:37.579 --> 00:33:40.400
being there. And was that the first time that
00:33:40.400 --> 00:33:42.980
I shoveled snow in the driveway? I probably was.
00:33:43.940 --> 00:33:46.059
I'd never shoveled snow before and I just had
00:33:46.059 --> 00:33:48.299
the biggest smile on my face while I was shoveling
00:33:48.299 --> 00:33:51.480
snow and Laura just made so much fun of me. Well,
00:33:51.619 --> 00:33:54.119
he was going so slow because he was enjoying
00:33:54.119 --> 00:33:57.359
it. It was fun. When you've done it for your
00:33:57.359 --> 00:33:59.880
whole life, it was not as exciting, but it was
00:33:59.880 --> 00:34:02.460
fun to see, but it was cute. I had to teach him
00:34:02.460 --> 00:34:05.440
the method. I love that. Well, I do have to say
00:34:05.440 --> 00:34:08.380
if you ever drive by the house when I'm mowing
00:34:08.380 --> 00:34:10.119
the yard, I probably have a smile on my face
00:34:10.119 --> 00:34:11.719
while I'm doing it there too. Cause I'm, I'm
00:34:11.719 --> 00:34:14.139
into that. It's a very fulfilling thing. Was
00:34:14.139 --> 00:34:16.280
that the, was that the house on Dryden or? It
00:34:16.280 --> 00:34:18.960
was on Dryden. Yeah. It was the, uh, yeah, not
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:22.639
the beach house. It was on, on Dryden. Yes. Very
00:34:22.639 --> 00:34:25.519
rich. So, oh yeah. So you got married and so
00:34:25.519 --> 00:34:28.900
did you end up staying, you stayed that one semester?
00:34:29.460 --> 00:34:33.340
Yes. We got, I technically finished in January.
00:34:33.960 --> 00:34:37.920
And then that's when I, when I told my story
00:34:37.920 --> 00:34:43.170
before, it's during the Vietnam War. And so my
00:34:43.170 --> 00:34:45.210
draft board said, as soon as you get your undergraduate
00:34:45.210 --> 00:34:47.829
degree, you're going to be 1A, which means I'm
00:34:47.829 --> 00:34:51.050
going to get drafted. So that's when I made the
00:34:51.050 --> 00:34:53.269
decision that I'm going to interview with companies
00:34:53.269 --> 00:34:56.969
and see if I can get a job. So if I get drafted,
00:34:57.389 --> 00:34:59.849
I'll have a job because if you leave, they'll
00:34:59.849 --> 00:35:01.690
come back. They have to give you your job back.
00:35:02.510 --> 00:35:06.269
So are we interviewed? I just want to say something.
00:35:07.510 --> 00:35:11.329
So out south of Champaign -Urbana, there was
00:35:11.329 --> 00:35:14.170
this tiny little airport with all these tiny
00:35:14.170 --> 00:35:18.250
little planes. Evidently, I took him out there,
00:35:18.250 --> 00:35:21.469
and I remember watching those little planes take
00:35:21.469 --> 00:35:24.730
off in the high winds, and those little planes
00:35:24.730 --> 00:35:27.369
that Mark went on to interview for those jobs,
00:35:27.690 --> 00:35:30.650
they just whipped around, and I was really wondering
00:35:30.650 --> 00:35:33.949
if he was going to get back, because those little
00:35:33.949 --> 00:35:38.869
planes were so fragile. Anyway, that's all I
00:35:38.869 --> 00:35:41.389
remember. He flew off to different places all
00:35:41.389 --> 00:35:43.730
the time. Well, not all the time, a couple of
00:35:43.730 --> 00:35:45.510
times. I interviewed a couple of different companies.
00:35:45.480 --> 00:35:48.380
he's interviewed Shell and he interviewed what
00:35:48.380 --> 00:35:50.960
was then called Humble oil and refining company
00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:53.619
today. It's called Exxon Exxon right I remember
00:35:53.619 --> 00:35:56.639
so so anyway So I interviewed so the only one
00:35:56.639 --> 00:35:59.559
of them made me an offer made and and that was
00:35:59.559 --> 00:36:02.900
I'll call it Exxon now So I knew when I graduated
00:36:02.900 --> 00:36:05.360
that I was going to be going to work for them
00:36:05.360 --> 00:36:08.639
And they had a position for me in Knoxville,
00:36:08.840 --> 00:36:12.260
Tennessee, so when we graduated at the end of
00:36:12.260 --> 00:36:16.360
January I rented a u -haul trailer and hooked
00:36:16.360 --> 00:36:20.960
it to our 1964 Valiant and Put all our stuff
00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:23.980
in there and we drove down to Knoxville, Tennessee
00:36:23.980 --> 00:36:28.139
Wow my territory. Yeah close to it not in Knoxville
00:36:28.139 --> 00:36:30.320
I mean I was Atlanta so but it's all the south
00:36:30.320 --> 00:36:33.949
so There you go. When y 'all were, I'm gonna
00:36:33.949 --> 00:36:36.809
back up just for a second. So right after y 'all
00:36:36.809 --> 00:36:40.050
got married and you were doing that one semester
00:36:40.050 --> 00:36:43.329
together, where did you live? We lived at St.
00:36:43.469 --> 00:36:47.070
John Apartments and we would walk to campus.
00:36:47.150 --> 00:36:50.230
It was about three quarters of a mile. Probably.
00:36:50.699 --> 00:36:54.099
It was actually a very delightful time because
00:36:54.099 --> 00:36:56.900
we both got our best grades and we were having
00:36:56.900 --> 00:37:01.219
meals together. And it was just, it was, it was
00:37:01.219 --> 00:37:04.179
just the most wonderful beginning to our marriage.
00:37:04.480 --> 00:37:07.780
It was a very lovely time. That's fun. It's fun.
00:37:07.780 --> 00:37:10.480
It's nice to hear that too, because that's basically
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:14.000
exactly my mom and dad story. My dad would always
00:37:14.000 --> 00:37:16.119
tell me, cause they got married in their, I think
00:37:16.119 --> 00:37:20.199
it was the junior, junior year of college, but
00:37:20.869 --> 00:37:23.789
Dad would always say his grades were never better
00:37:23.789 --> 00:37:25.849
than after he had gotten married because the
00:37:25.849 --> 00:37:27.590
two of them were together And they had their
00:37:27.590 --> 00:37:30.489
thing and he just got the best grades As soon
00:37:30.489 --> 00:37:32.989
as he was as soon as he was married plus I was
00:37:32.989 --> 00:37:35.849
working 20 plus hours a week at a gas station
00:37:35.849 --> 00:37:38.969
Oh, I have a block from our house So I was down
00:37:38.969 --> 00:37:41.469
there not just pumping gas but also doing mechanical
00:37:41.469 --> 00:37:45.380
work sure so to help because once I got married,
00:37:45.559 --> 00:37:48.480
my dad said, okay, you're on your own now. You're
00:37:48.480 --> 00:37:50.719
on your own, kid. You're on your own now. So
00:37:50.719 --> 00:37:53.400
in fact, I remember this. I had to get a student
00:37:53.400 --> 00:37:56.699
loan to finish my last semester of school and
00:37:56.699 --> 00:37:59.260
I went to the bank and I borrowed, I thought
00:37:59.260 --> 00:38:02.980
I was signing my life away. I borrowed $500 just
00:38:02.980 --> 00:38:06.260
to plan my last semester of school and ended
00:38:06.260 --> 00:38:08.869
up paying it off. within my three months after
00:38:08.869 --> 00:38:13.329
I started working for Exxon. $500 for school.
00:38:13.329 --> 00:38:16.829
School is, school's a little bit more than that.
00:38:16.949 --> 00:38:20.610
Slightly more than that. $500. My goodness. Wow.
00:38:21.030 --> 00:38:24.250
Okay. So, and now we did, we did hear a little
00:38:24.250 --> 00:38:27.730
bit about the Exxon story before. So now the
00:38:27.730 --> 00:38:32.690
two of you are living in Knoxville. This would
00:38:32.690 --> 00:38:36.719
be in... They're Yankees. Living in Knoxville,
00:38:36.760 --> 00:38:39.699
Dave. But didn't they call you Yankees there?
00:38:39.960 --> 00:38:42.380
They sure did. After we lived in Knoxville for
00:38:42.380 --> 00:38:45.159
a while, as we got to know the people, I noticed
00:38:45.159 --> 00:38:47.840
they called us Yankees. And I'm from California.
00:38:47.900 --> 00:38:52.460
And so I said, what? I'm not a Yankee. I'm from
00:38:52.460 --> 00:38:55.980
California. And so evidently, I mean, I was naive,
00:38:56.599 --> 00:38:59.139
obviously naive because Californians don't think
00:38:59.139 --> 00:39:03.010
like that. No, they don't. Well, and, and honestly,
00:39:03.570 --> 00:39:06.789
below the Mason Dixon line, a lot of people feel
00:39:06.789 --> 00:39:10.969
that anything above it is Yankees, but, but really
00:39:10.969 --> 00:39:17.250
Chicago is Chicago's not Yankee. New York is
00:39:17.250 --> 00:39:20.909
Yankee. You know, Boston is Yankee, not, not
00:39:20.909 --> 00:39:24.530
Chicago. Chicago's more Northern Midwest. So
00:39:24.530 --> 00:39:27.010
it's, it's funny. That's like that. But I grew
00:39:27.010 --> 00:39:31.349
up in an area where No joke. I mean, this is
00:39:31.349 --> 00:39:35.250
in the mid eighties. You could drive 10 miles,
00:39:35.469 --> 00:39:39.730
15 miles due north of where my house was. And
00:39:39.730 --> 00:39:43.090
you would meet people who. Who were excited about
00:39:43.090 --> 00:39:45.570
the next Civil War? So I mean it was that's what
00:39:45.570 --> 00:39:48.090
it was in Virginia It was like I never heard
00:39:48.090 --> 00:39:50.110
that much about a war. They really relive all
00:39:50.110 --> 00:39:52.949
the wars. Oh, yeah reenact them That was a big
00:39:52.949 --> 00:39:54.829
surprise when I was in Virginia as well. Oh,
00:39:54.829 --> 00:39:56.989
yeah, and in Atlanta We went to at the zoo They
00:39:56.989 --> 00:39:59.469
have a big cyclorama of the Battle of Kennesaw
00:39:59.469 --> 00:40:01.550
and the Civil War is a big thing and she's like
00:40:01.550 --> 00:40:03.730
Why is this such a big deal to you guys were
00:40:03.730 --> 00:40:05.530
fought there after they were fought that was
00:40:05.530 --> 00:40:09.989
passed from Sun down down Sherman's Sherman's
00:40:09.989 --> 00:40:13.210
March to the ocean That's right. Well, I lived
00:40:13.210 --> 00:40:17.289
in a house in Smyrna, Georgia, which is just
00:40:17.289 --> 00:40:23.639
to the south east of Kennesaw Mountain. And we
00:40:23.639 --> 00:40:27.440
dug up a cannonball in our, when we were doing
00:40:27.440 --> 00:40:29.820
our garden. Yeah, we had a cannonball, had it
00:40:29.820 --> 00:40:31.579
forever. It's just a big old, it was just a big
00:40:31.579 --> 00:40:33.639
old heavy ball that wasn't explosive or anything.
00:40:33.940 --> 00:40:36.619
But seriously, we had a can, we, we dug up a
00:40:36.619 --> 00:40:38.909
cannonball. Just think. Right. I mean, All that
00:40:38.909 --> 00:40:41.630
right there. Those battles happened right there.
00:40:41.630 --> 00:40:46.360
So did you Yankees like those? We really liked
00:40:46.360 --> 00:40:49.760
it there. I mean, the people were friendly and
00:40:49.760 --> 00:40:52.460
we love the onions, right? I understand the language
00:40:52.460 --> 00:40:56.559
all the time. For recreation, Papa decided to
00:40:56.559 --> 00:41:00.440
build a bicycle built for two. And so we were
00:41:00.440 --> 00:41:03.159
out enjoying riding that bike around till one
00:41:03.159 --> 00:41:06.809
day. I started feeling like, oh, this, this smell
00:41:06.809 --> 00:41:09.570
in the air is like onions. It's making me sick.
00:41:09.889 --> 00:41:14.010
And then I found out it was because I was expecting
00:41:14.010 --> 00:41:16.969
to have a baby. There's a reason why you were
00:41:16.969 --> 00:41:19.690
getting queasy. Yes. So I'm, I was very excited
00:41:19.690 --> 00:41:23.250
that that was just the most wonderful news. And
00:41:23.250 --> 00:41:26.289
so Steve, Steve was actually born in Knoxville,
00:41:26.409 --> 00:41:29.940
right? Three years later from that first Coca
00:41:29.940 --> 00:41:34.000
Cola date. Oh, that's so fun. December 12th.
00:41:34.099 --> 00:41:36.500
Happy birthday, Steve. It's coming up in about,
00:41:36.500 --> 00:41:39.260
well, two months. One thing we did up there,
00:41:39.400 --> 00:41:42.179
we went up to Gatlinburg a lot. Oh yeah. Oh,
00:41:42.300 --> 00:41:45.340
Gatlinburg is so cool. We would drive up there
00:41:45.340 --> 00:41:48.559
on a fall day. It was just beautiful. It is.
00:41:48.599 --> 00:41:52.119
It's very pretty up there. being up in North
00:41:52.119 --> 00:41:54.219
Georgia mountains a lot because of where I was
00:41:54.219 --> 00:41:58.659
from. Big tourist attraction used to just be
00:41:58.659 --> 00:42:00.659
summer type stuff, but then they started doing
00:42:00.659 --> 00:42:03.480
stuff in the winter. Well, in Gatlinburg, it
00:42:03.480 --> 00:42:06.139
was really, uh, all of us from the South. That
00:42:06.139 --> 00:42:08.179
was, if you wanted to snow ski, that was literally
00:42:08.179 --> 00:42:11.099
the only place you could go. They would mostly,
00:42:11.099 --> 00:42:13.530
they would mostly, you know, Generate their own
00:42:13.530 --> 00:42:16.150
right snow was because it's not really that snowy
00:42:16.150 --> 00:42:18.690
up there But that's where people would ski is
00:42:18.690 --> 00:42:21.070
up in Gatlinburg. And so yeah, it's beautiful
00:42:21.070 --> 00:42:23.150
beautiful area. Okay, so how long were y 'all
00:42:23.150 --> 00:42:26.090
in Knoxville? Well, that's an interesting story,
00:42:26.090 --> 00:42:29.110
too We were in Knoxville for about a year and
00:42:29.110 --> 00:42:31.809
well, we were with Exxon I was with Exxon for
00:42:31.809 --> 00:42:33.690
about a year and a half, but we started out in
00:42:33.690 --> 00:42:36.449
Nashville But they moved us to Chattanooga transferred
00:42:36.449 --> 00:42:40.349
us down there And most of the time that we were
00:42:40.349 --> 00:42:42.570
down there, which was probably no more than what,
00:42:42.769 --> 00:42:46.610
six months maybe or something, Jan spent time
00:42:46.610 --> 00:42:48.969
back in Chicago with her mom because she was
00:42:48.969 --> 00:42:51.429
not feeling very well while she was pregnant.
00:42:52.309 --> 00:42:54.730
She didn't have morning sickness. She had all
00:42:54.730 --> 00:42:58.280
day sickness. So I went home to my mom and she
00:42:58.280 --> 00:43:00.380
made me soup every day. She brought it home from
00:43:00.380 --> 00:43:05.469
work and it was really good. So nice they put
00:43:05.469 --> 00:43:07.769
they transferred us down there and then six months
00:43:07.769 --> 00:43:09.789
later said we want you back in Knoxville So they
00:43:09.789 --> 00:43:12.409
transferred us back to Knoxville. So when we
00:43:12.409 --> 00:43:14.610
originally went down there, we lived in a duplex
00:43:14.610 --> 00:43:17.170
We rented a duplex and we had no furniture. So
00:43:17.170 --> 00:43:20.539
we rented a furnished Duplex and we came back.
00:43:20.539 --> 00:43:23.480
We moved in some to into some apartments, which
00:43:23.480 --> 00:43:27.059
were very nice and They had they have this deal
00:43:27.059 --> 00:43:29.480
now I think here you can you can go pick out
00:43:29.480 --> 00:43:31.820
your new furniture and get it and then you're
00:43:31.820 --> 00:43:33.920
renting the furniture You're paying for it. Oh
00:43:33.920 --> 00:43:37.679
sure, and you can end up buying it. Oh sure So
00:43:37.679 --> 00:43:40.239
that's we live there. That's where we lived when
00:43:40.239 --> 00:43:44.519
Steve was born got you. Oh Yeah, very very familiar
00:43:44.519 --> 00:43:47.440
with both cities actually Yeah, I went to the
00:43:47.440 --> 00:43:52.750
Knoxville World's Fair in 1982. I remember one
00:43:52.750 --> 00:43:54.570
morning we lived there and I got up and there
00:43:54.570 --> 00:43:56.489
was a half an inch of snow on the ground and
00:43:56.489 --> 00:43:58.449
I drove to work and I said, boy, there's not
00:43:58.449 --> 00:44:00.409
much traffic. And I got there and the office
00:44:00.409 --> 00:44:03.869
was closed. Everything was closed. Up in Chicago,
00:44:04.030 --> 00:44:06.650
this is nothing. Welcome to the South. Welcome
00:44:06.650 --> 00:44:11.250
to Oklahoma. It's like that too. It's so true.
00:44:11.610 --> 00:44:13.590
Yeah. I mean, just the thought of snow shuts
00:44:13.590 --> 00:44:15.190
everything down. They're not used to it down
00:44:15.190 --> 00:44:17.829
there. And then you had the blue Sundays where
00:44:17.829 --> 00:44:20.050
you couldn't buy certain foods. You couldn't
00:44:20.050 --> 00:44:22.889
buy meat at the supermarket. That's over it.
00:44:22.889 --> 00:44:27.469
Yeah. Oh, yeah. What's that about? Well, I don't
00:44:27.469 --> 00:44:30.489
know. Well, they used to just very little laws.
00:44:30.750 --> 00:44:32.869
Yeah. Blue laws. Blue laws. They were just very
00:44:32.869 --> 00:44:35.309
limited on what you could do on Sunday. I mean,
00:44:35.309 --> 00:44:38.449
oh, they didn't want you to. Yeah, they were.
00:44:38.630 --> 00:44:41.550
It was, you know, a lot of places were closed
00:44:41.550 --> 00:44:44.610
on Sunday. They honored the Sabbath. Yeah. Lots
00:44:44.610 --> 00:44:47.230
of places closed on Sunday. And well, for one,
00:44:47.730 --> 00:44:52.070
You couldn't buy alcohol in Georgia from midnight
00:44:52.070 --> 00:44:56.170
Saturday until six a .m. Monday. You couldn't.
00:44:56.369 --> 00:44:58.670
They wouldn't sell nothing. You can buy anything
00:44:58.670 --> 00:45:00.349
like that. And then they had different areas
00:45:00.349 --> 00:45:02.610
in a lot of the states, because I remember this
00:45:02.610 --> 00:45:04.909
from Arkansas when my mom and dad moved down
00:45:04.909 --> 00:45:07.769
there, they had dry counties. Yep. Oh, yeah.
00:45:07.769 --> 00:45:10.210
County. They didn't allow any sales or service
00:45:10.210 --> 00:45:12.610
to go across to the next one. Right. The next
00:45:12.610 --> 00:45:15.469
county to buy something. Right. Yeah, it was
00:45:15.469 --> 00:45:18.480
it was definitely a different time. Yep. Well,
00:45:18.480 --> 00:45:21.099
Oklahoma just brought alcohol into grocery stores
00:45:21.099 --> 00:45:25.500
what in the last Ten years because it wasn't
00:45:25.500 --> 00:45:27.699
in the grocery stores still had that same a lot
00:45:27.699 --> 00:45:29.619
of those same laws Yeah, and they had some laws
00:45:29.619 --> 00:45:31.940
about where you could businesses how close they
00:45:31.940 --> 00:45:34.900
could be to a church, you know and sell on the
00:45:34.900 --> 00:45:37.780
premises like downtown I remember so you eventually
00:45:37.780 --> 00:45:41.800
ended back in In Chicago area where you where
00:45:41.800 --> 00:45:44.139
your mother lived in Park Ridge near that area
00:45:44.139 --> 00:45:47.579
We were starting to feel after Steve was born
00:45:47.579 --> 00:45:50.679
that we wanted to be near the grandparents sure
00:45:50.679 --> 00:45:57.900
and so my mother introduced Mark to some openings
00:45:57.900 --> 00:46:01.679
at some banks downtown. And he ended up taking
00:46:01.679 --> 00:46:05.380
a job with the Northern Trust Bank in Chicago.
00:46:05.519 --> 00:46:08.159
And we ended up moving back to Park Ridge, an
00:46:08.159 --> 00:46:11.059
apartment, and then subsequently on Prospect,
00:46:11.260 --> 00:46:15.380
we bought a home in Arlington Heights. And so
00:46:15.380 --> 00:46:18.699
that's really where I think those were some.
00:46:18.920 --> 00:46:21.239
Some of the most wonderful days of our life were
00:46:21.239 --> 00:46:24.559
in Arlington Heights. And then our beautiful
00:46:24.559 --> 00:46:27.840
daughter, Laura, was born two years after Steve,
00:46:27.920 --> 00:46:31.219
two years. And that was such a delightful time
00:46:31.219 --> 00:46:34.440
having two little ones. And it was about that
00:46:34.440 --> 00:46:37.619
time that I think the Lord really got my attention.
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:42.860
And I, I started reading a Bible that Mark's
00:46:42.860 --> 00:46:47.860
father gave to us and. As I was reading Matthew
00:46:47.860 --> 00:46:53.730
five, six and seven, I really myself knew that
00:46:53.730 --> 00:46:56.369
I needed to have a relationship with God through
00:46:56.369 --> 00:46:59.730
Jesus Christ. And I just started asking Jesus
00:46:59.730 --> 00:47:03.530
if he would forgive my sins from when I was a
00:47:03.530 --> 00:47:06.829
girl and when I was in college and my whole life.
00:47:06.989 --> 00:47:11.010
And so as I. Ask him to forgive my sins. I really
00:47:11.010 --> 00:47:13.730
I really started changing but that was over a
00:47:13.730 --> 00:47:18.190
period of like maybe six months sure Well, that's
00:47:18.190 --> 00:47:21.530
it's it's fun to hear that because you know y
00:47:21.530 --> 00:47:24.630
'all story is very similar to my parents story
00:47:24.630 --> 00:47:28.110
who also didn't get saved until later in life
00:47:28.110 --> 00:47:31.329
until after they were married and had kids and
00:47:31.329 --> 00:47:35.610
being in a situation where you grow up and and
00:47:35.610 --> 00:47:38.239
you literally your whole life is is Christianity
00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:39.820
and the church and everything else. It's just
00:47:39.820 --> 00:47:41.960
a very different thing. So it's, it's, it's neat
00:47:41.960 --> 00:47:45.500
to hear a story of, of your journey of what,
00:47:45.860 --> 00:47:49.280
where it took you. And at some point God just
00:47:49.280 --> 00:47:51.760
strikes your heart. Yeah, because I don't remember
00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:56.070
really praying before that when we were in Knoxville
00:47:56.070 --> 00:47:57.809
or when we were at the U of I, I don't know.
00:47:57.929 --> 00:48:00.170
I don't know what I was thinking. I don't know
00:48:00.170 --> 00:48:03.050
where I was at. We occasionally went to church.
00:48:03.110 --> 00:48:05.170
I remember going to church at the University
00:48:05.170 --> 00:48:06.949
of Illinois together at the Methodist Church
00:48:06.949 --> 00:48:11.010
a couple times. But we really weren't tuned in
00:48:11.010 --> 00:48:15.610
spiritually to God at all. And so it was, yeah,
00:48:15.730 --> 00:48:18.690
well, and of course that revolved around my dad
00:48:18.690 --> 00:48:21.489
getting, mom and dad getting divorced, my dad
00:48:21.489 --> 00:48:24.610
remarrying, my stepmother. who was a Christian
00:48:24.610 --> 00:48:27.070
but not really living her faith at the time she
00:48:27.070 --> 00:48:29.389
married my dad because he wasn't, but she came
00:48:29.389 --> 00:48:32.250
back to faith, he got saved, sent the Bibles,
00:48:32.389 --> 00:48:34.389
and that's when she got the Bible and started
00:48:34.389 --> 00:48:39.530
reading it. Which is just incredible how it just
00:48:39.530 --> 00:48:43.260
sort of weaves its way to you like that. Married
00:48:43.260 --> 00:48:46.000
five years had both our kids bought our first
00:48:46.000 --> 00:48:48.199
house Started with the bank made all the major
00:48:48.199 --> 00:48:50.860
decisions in our life before we came to the Lord
00:48:50.860 --> 00:48:53.579
Wow, but he had his hand on us. Absolutely. He
00:48:53.579 --> 00:48:55.960
had his hand on us now What what did your mom
00:48:55.960 --> 00:48:59.980
do that kind of led a papa to Northern Trust?
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:04.460
What? Vice president and an auditor of the Displanes
00:49:04.460 --> 00:49:08.300
National Bank in Displanes and so she knew different
00:49:08.300 --> 00:49:12.719
people from these downtown banks And so that's
00:49:12.719 --> 00:49:15.679
why she felt that she could introduce Mark to
00:49:15.679 --> 00:49:18.519
someone. I'm Tom Chicago. Got you, of course.
00:49:18.780 --> 00:49:22.139
The Windy City. Yeah. And, and full disclosure,
00:49:22.440 --> 00:49:25.420
I always, after Laura and I got married and we
00:49:25.420 --> 00:49:28.900
would go up to Chicago, I always thought the
00:49:28.900 --> 00:49:31.980
greatest thing was you being able to just jump
00:49:31.980 --> 00:49:35.039
on a train and go to work. And then once you're
00:49:35.039 --> 00:49:37.000
at work, you're at work. And then when you're
00:49:37.000 --> 00:49:39.179
done work, you're back on the train and you've
00:49:39.179 --> 00:49:41.300
got that decompressed. You're not driving in
00:49:41.300 --> 00:49:43.360
that traffic. You're not doing all that. I thought
00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:45.900
that was just the greatest thing. I don't know.
00:49:46.199 --> 00:49:49.000
I just love it. We had one car for years because
00:49:49.000 --> 00:49:51.719
I didn't need a car. I walked a mile to the train.
00:49:51.840 --> 00:49:54.659
Yeah. It was, it was really, I always, I always
00:49:54.659 --> 00:49:56.840
used to love when we would come up there and,
00:49:56.840 --> 00:49:58.960
and, and visit. I remember we took, uh, didn't,
00:49:59.000 --> 00:50:01.480
I think didn't Nolan and Max ride the train with
00:50:01.480 --> 00:50:04.679
you at one point. I think they may have. Know
00:50:04.679 --> 00:50:07.239
Nathan did oh, yeah, I do remember that it was
00:50:07.239 --> 00:50:11.699
a train lover. Yeah So how many years did you
00:50:11.699 --> 00:50:15.500
live in Chicago? Before you moved here to Tulsa
00:50:15.500 --> 00:50:20.780
Let's see we moved there in 1970 I started with
00:50:20.780 --> 00:50:25.440
the bank in August of 70 and then My last day
00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:30.960
in the bank was January 31st 2001 2002 I mean
00:50:30.960 --> 00:50:34.800
but Jan moved down here two months before I did
00:50:34.800 --> 00:50:38.000
so we actually sold the house that you were grew
00:50:38.000 --> 00:50:42.739
up in in Several years before that it was after
00:50:42.739 --> 00:50:45.059
we were married Yeah, and then we moved to another
00:50:45.059 --> 00:50:47.460
house there for sure But we sold that the other
00:50:47.460 --> 00:50:51.099
second house that we lived in up there in at
00:50:51.099 --> 00:50:54.789
the end of November of 2001 and that's when Jan
00:50:54.789 --> 00:50:57.670
moved down here into the new house. You've been
00:50:57.670 --> 00:50:59.869
here 25 years. It's hard to believe you've lived
00:50:59.869 --> 00:51:03.090
here. Exactly. We're almost here as long as we
00:51:03.090 --> 00:51:06.869
were in Arlington Heights. That's hard to believe.
00:51:06.989 --> 00:51:09.469
I know this has really become our home and it
00:51:09.469 --> 00:51:12.250
is vastly different from living in Illinois.
00:51:12.269 --> 00:51:14.449
And we loved it there, but we love it here. It's
00:51:14.449 --> 00:51:16.670
just a totally different life. It's different.
00:51:17.090 --> 00:51:20.489
Well, and, and you know, I'm a little partial
00:51:20.489 --> 00:51:23.710
because you also have your grandkids super close.
00:51:23.869 --> 00:51:27.050
as well here, which is a nice thing. I mean.
00:51:27.349 --> 00:51:30.230
And our great grandkids. And great grandkids
00:51:30.230 --> 00:51:34.400
on the way. Oh, wow. I mean, what a blessing.
00:51:34.539 --> 00:51:37.800
We're so excited about all these grandkids and,
00:51:37.800 --> 00:51:40.599
oh, they are wonderful grandkids too. I must
00:51:40.599 --> 00:51:43.679
say you two have poured a lot of love into your
00:51:43.679 --> 00:51:47.159
children. And their spouses. Yeah, it's been
00:51:47.159 --> 00:51:49.960
fun. They're fun. And so, okay, before we wrap
00:51:49.960 --> 00:51:52.019
up, I do want to talk about one little thing.
00:51:52.059 --> 00:51:55.599
So y 'all just got back. from John Brown University
00:51:55.599 --> 00:52:00.079
just last Tuesday. Tell us a little bit about
00:52:00.079 --> 00:52:02.699
what happened there, about your time there, what
00:52:02.699 --> 00:52:05.980
you were there for and that sort of thing. Grandparents
00:52:05.980 --> 00:52:11.280
Day at JBU is just the most welcoming, friendly
00:52:11.280 --> 00:52:15.239
place. The kids on campus are very friendly and
00:52:15.239 --> 00:52:19.260
I will say Abby Steele is so welcoming and loving
00:52:19.260 --> 00:52:24.929
and introducing us to her roommates and her friend
00:52:24.929 --> 00:52:30.269
Noah, and going to chapel with them. I love chapel.
00:52:30.489 --> 00:52:33.030
I love the worship there, and there was a really
00:52:33.030 --> 00:52:37.210
good message. Just visiting JBU, the president
00:52:37.210 --> 00:52:41.650
gives quite an interesting overview of the current
00:52:41.650 --> 00:52:46.349
state of affairs at JBU at the breakfast. I'm
00:52:46.349 --> 00:52:49.309
really impressed. It was just a highlight again
00:52:49.309 --> 00:52:52.880
to go there. Yeah, it's a special place, that's
00:52:52.880 --> 00:52:57.659
for sure. Yeah, we really enjoyed it too. I want
00:52:57.659 --> 00:53:00.900
to go back at Christmas to the Christmas candlelight
00:53:00.900 --> 00:53:03.239
service again. Oh, I do too. That was so wonderful.
00:53:03.260 --> 00:53:05.219
I'd like to get on that bus. It was certainly
00:53:05.219 --> 00:53:11.210
cold. Yes. Well, I guess, I guess we can wrap
00:53:11.210 --> 00:53:13.570
it up. Yeah. Well, thanks for telling us your
00:53:13.570 --> 00:53:15.070
story of how you met. We'll probably have you
00:53:15.070 --> 00:53:17.489
on for other topics in the future. Absolutely.
00:53:17.670 --> 00:53:19.710
But thanks for telling your story. It's always
00:53:19.710 --> 00:53:22.210
inspirational to hear how people met and dated
00:53:22.210 --> 00:53:25.329
and their history. Yeah. And it's always, and
00:53:25.329 --> 00:53:27.170
of course there's other things that y 'all have,
00:53:27.170 --> 00:53:29.130
y 'all are such a wealth of information for,
00:53:29.130 --> 00:53:31.289
for us and for a lot of other people. And so
00:53:31.289 --> 00:53:34.210
we'll definitely have you back again. We loved
00:53:34.210 --> 00:53:37.710
it. Thank you for having us. Absolutely. Thank
00:53:37.710 --> 00:53:40.010
you for laughing with us a little bit. Oh my
00:53:40.010 --> 00:53:42.769
gosh, Laura. I have no more cupcakes for me.
00:53:43.909 --> 00:53:46.590
Well, once again, if you have any questions or
00:53:46.590 --> 00:53:48.650
comments or anything that you would like to share
00:53:48.650 --> 00:53:52.849
with us, mlibpodcast .gmail .com is our email
00:53:52.849 --> 00:53:54.650
address. We'd love to hear from you. Yes, we
00:53:54.650 --> 00:53:58.389
would. So, but until next time, thank you for
00:53:58.389 --> 00:54:01.730
joining us. At MLIB Podcast. Absolutely. We'll
00:54:01.730 --> 00:54:02.929
see you next week. Bye.