Why Agencies Need To Vertically Specialize with Corey Quinn - Mix & Matchbox Podcast

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[SPEAKER_00]: Hi, I'm your host Brent Feldman, and we are back with another episode of Mix and Matchbox.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Today, we are joined by Cory Quinn.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Cory is the agency growth advisor at Cory Quinn Inc. Hi, Cory.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Good to see you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What's up, Brent?
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[SPEAKER_00]: How's it going?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm pretty excited to be here.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, everything's great.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm excited for our conversation today.
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[SPEAKER_00]: absolutely me too.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for being on the podcast.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I will, I will jump in with a pretty straightforward one here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I always usually jump into the background, the history right off the bat.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So based on your LinkedIn way back in 1999, you started your home streaming media company, which I'm sure the time was pretty, that was cutting edge.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It was awesome, it was about the same time that Mark Cuban sold his streaming media business called Broadcast.com to Yahoo, or $5.7 billion.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, it was, it was really cool to be in streaming media back then.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That is, that's definitely a hot time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, you know, like, since you're now in consulting with, you know, sort of agencies, I'm sure you still have a soft spot for entrepreneurs.
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[SPEAKER_00]: How does that sort of experience that you had shape how you deal with your clients?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, it's a great question, Brent.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So back then, it was, I was a fresh graduate out of college.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I was, it was about, let's call it the, I'm sure people have heard of the.com days or the.bomb days.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And, and my best friend and I, we wrote a business plan ended up raising $6 million from a business plan.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And two kids really had no business raising that kind of money.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But we were full of excitement and vision.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and really wanted to build a wonderful company.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And the company you mentioned is streaming media, effectively what we did is we built a, effectively a service business where we would go out to live events and put them on the internet.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And our primary customers were entertainment and media companies.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Classic example I share is let's say a movie studio,
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[SPEAKER_01]: does a big movie premiere.
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[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, we just mission impossible Tom Cruise and the movie just launched last weekend, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so every mission impossible movie when they come out, they do a big red carpet movie premiere.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That would be an example of an event that we would go to and we would be there with our cameras and be able to stream it live so that you didn't actually have to go to the movie premiere.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You just watch it live from your internet.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So that was the business model.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It was awesome.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We tried very hard to get it to work, meeting to scale, to be able to grow organically over time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And Unfortunately, after a couple years, it failed.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think looking back now, there's quite a few things that
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[SPEAKER_01]: we should have done differently, always hindsight's 2020, of course.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And at that time, I guys said we were really young kids.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And we didn't have a lot of guidance, sure we had investors, but they were giving us a lot of rope to be able to go figure this out.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, that lack of guidance, I think really stuck with me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And fast forwarding to today,
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I love working with business owners.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I love working with entrepreneurs.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, because I was in their shoes and also because they too have a drive and a vision to create something amazing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I love working with people who have a big vision and who really want to in some ways make big bets with their life and with their time to really make to create some some amazing value.
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[SPEAKER_01]: However, regardless of where you come from, your background and education level, many lack a lot of wisdom.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And when I think of wisdom, it means to me they lack just knowledge experience and good judgment because maybe they haven't been down this road before.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And as a result of being in their shoes and knowing what it's like to have that missing that wisdom that doesn't, I haven't quite accumulated yet.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I really have a lot of empathy for this audience and so I love working with entrepreneurs and being able to provide them with the guidance and support that can help them to say short and learnings get the results faster.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, dang, Corey, that's deep.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's really, that's wonderful to hear.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I will say having started my company twenty-five, I was definitely lacking the wisdom that you're talking about and I definitely
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[SPEAKER_00]: that sort of situation where you have a lot of division passion, you're ready to jump out there and you're just changed the world.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And at that time you really do, you really need that guidance, you need mentors, people to help you, getting feedback from some of the decisions, you know, you might want to make or need to make.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's wonderful that, you know, yeah, you're wanting to give back where, you know, maybe you didn't have that at the time that you
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's a natural fit for me and I love what I do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you've had quite a few roles that involve leading businesses and business development in marketing as well.
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[SPEAKER_00]: As you guide agencies on developing a vertical specialization, why is this experience important to you on how you deliver this advice and
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'll continue the story from the dot com we failed and I at the time the economy was kind of in flux the stock market dropped a bunch and I love being an entrepreneur but I also was really interested in the stock market so I ended up getting a job as a financial advisor for Morgan Stanley back then was called Morgan Stanley in winter.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that my job was effectively being a stock broker, which is in other words, a sales job.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The coolest thing about that was that I got to go through a professional sales training.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They flew us up to San Francisco for two weeks and we had some of the world-class sales training.
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[SPEAKER_01]: that I obviously had ever been and never been to a traditional sale trading and I loved it so much.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, my career in financial services ended after about four years because I went back to get my MBA and I wanted to get back into the internet.
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[SPEAKER_01]: My passion for sales never left me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So after graduating from USC here in Los Angeles with my MBA, I went back into the internet at an agency, working in a sales role.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It was a beat with a call business development, but again, it sales.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I was very successful.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I loved selling deals.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We sold large scale, PPC and SEO deals.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I personally sold to Lou Lulem and Remax, Hyundai, we sold to the men's warehouse, many others.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I loved the art of the deal and selling and all of that whole thing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was in fact the number one salesperson at the agency for 19 consecutive quarters.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, that led me into sales management and then ultimately I was the chief marketing officer at an agency called Scorpion and the benefit of all of that business development history.
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[SPEAKER_01]: was that the area where I focused my career on now is in working with professional service firms, specifically agencies, where there is a sales aspect to growing the agency.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know, any, I know that the work that you guys do as well as many agencies in a similar space, they have a sales function in the organization.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Your clients aren't going to just buy a large marketing package off of a website.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's not a pure product I sell.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so the benefit of all this sales experience in the context of an agency is really helped me to create great impact.
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[SPEAKER_01]: in the work that I do and the clients I serve because not only do I understand vertical specialization which is more about positioning and messaging but I also understand the sort of the hand-to-hand combat if you were all of doing sales and what is you know what is this successful sales process
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[SPEAKER_01]: Effectively, at the end of the day, I'm able to bring a lot of that experience directly to agencies who may not have the experience or have had been exposed to a lot of, so let's call it more sophisticated sales processes.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's great.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That is very helpful in having the empathy for that the quote and quote in in compad of sales.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Right.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's so it's so important every time I get a call from a sales rep who's, you know, earnest and genuine and you know, just trying to do their job.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I, you know, even if it's a call that I don't want, it is also something that I was like, I know what you have to do and I care about that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: You know,
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it's not an easy job.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, that's cool.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And actually, you mentioned Scorpion, which, yeah, you have this track record of growing, you know, from 20 million to 150 million, a huge fee, it's a staggering figure.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And, you know, and so that was a big thing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, how did you take on that organizational change, really that needed to, that basically made that shift happen.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so let me give you some context about that shift.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It was about seven years.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We went from 100 employees to 1,000 employees, from 1,000 clients to 14,000 clients, from six sales person team to 60 sellers.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Right, just this massive growth, like you see, organizational change, a lot of change.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Like when I got there, everyone went to work in,
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[SPEAKER_01]: football jerseys.
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[SPEAKER_01]: When I, when I, by the time I left everyone was in a, in a button down shirt, sometimes a coat, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of just physical changes you could see, but internally, you have to obviously build a business and grow a business differently when you are at a hundred person versus a thousand person.
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[SPEAKER_01]: For example, we didn't have an HR department at a hundred people.
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[SPEAKER_01]: at a thousand people, we had a nine-person HR team, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: It just required at that scale.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so some of the things that really helped us to
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[SPEAKER_01]: maintain a great company culture and grow positively through all that explosive number growth across the board was number one is we were always from day one super clear on our values as an organization.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So not only were we clear but they were communicated often.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so what that looks like is as a new employee, you learn about the scorpion way, you learn about what our specific values are, what do we
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then not only are you brought in through an onboarding experience as a new employee, but they're also lived.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We talk about it in our daily meetings or weekly meetings.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's literally on the boards on the wall, almost every room at Scorpion, and talk about our values.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What do we care about?
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[SPEAKER_01]: In fact, I've been thinking about this before the the interview, I wanted to share this is for the folks who are on YouTube, but when we did a rebrand, we produced and has set for our 100 person company, if sorry, 1000 person company to understand what we rebranding.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so I'll show you on the screen, this is like a little tool.
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[SPEAKER_01]: that we distributed to every employee, one of these tools was on the desk of every single employee at Scorpion.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And for those who are listening, it is a think of it like a paint chip you know when you go to the home depot and you look at different paints, swathas, swashes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's like that, but it's intended to help us to communicate as our, as our, through our rebrand, things like what is our newly articulated vision?
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[SPEAKER_01]: What is our mission?
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[SPEAKER_01]: What is our purpose?
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[SPEAKER_01]: uh... one of the three pillars of scorpion one of the five keys to success uh... and then we have a bunch of other stuff so this is just a great example of how we continue to communicate our values throughout uh... and made sure that not only that we're just words on a wall or a board on the wall but they were actually lived by the executive team the next level down of management all the way down to the entry level employee
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's very cool.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and I actually I love the the Pantone swatch book.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's that's super cool.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, and it also really resonates with somebody else who is a
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[SPEAKER_00]: guest on the podcast and actually somebody who know John Morris said that yet rise that they really live their values you know they continue to communicate them everybody knew how to you know kind of off the top of their head you know say you know what the company really stood for and that does make sense as you build an organization larger and larger and larger and larger there has to be a through line there has to be some that's right.
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[SPEAKER_00]: this, you know, this big group of people together.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And if you don't have that, then it can be more tenuous and the, you know, tie that binds just isn't as strong.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I really, I do feel like that's a great lesson for anybody, the cruiser company that the values are critical to, you know, kind of that growth.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Have you ever been to Disneyland?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, yeah, definitely.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Most of us have been to this line.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We had the opportunity to go to their Disney leadership institute and one of the things that has stuck with me is how much Disney really cares about their values Mucher how big of an organization they are today.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe 100,000 people, a couple hundred thousand people.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's a really huge organization
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[SPEAKER_01]: the way that they're able to maintain a consistent experience of the Disney brand is that they lead with values.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They communicate their values often and in person and they live them.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that's really what we modeled ourselves after.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, that's amazing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Actually in it, it's so cool that you said that actually because maybe a guest a few prior and stuff actually was a former Disney employee and as a virtual events company and on that podcast, he went through the, you know, like five core values and he was like, and he just like, you know, recite it, oh, like they were just embedded in his memory.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: and I really, I love that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, I feel like it's just further testament.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that's also a great model of a company that leads through their values and then saying, hey, this is what every employee needs to know.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This is what everybody who works with us needs to just put in body.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So that's great.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, cool.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, this is interesting, but as I was looking through your LinkedIn, you also have Scorpion health care listed.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Now, I know that you through your advisory of our team had give me a little indication that, you know, there were multiple brands that you were managing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, this was alongside the main organization of Scorpion, so you helped, you know, basically let me know that there are pros and cons to basically that sort of strategy of having not just one but two brands.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But what would your recommendation be as people try to think about their own brand vertical specialization maybe and just operating more than one brand themselves?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so we went back and forth at Scorpion with regard to the number of individual brands versus consolidating under Scorpion, the core brand.
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[SPEAKER_01]: For example, when I arrived or shortly after I arrived, we broke out scorpion health care, scorpion home services scorpion legal and so on and so forth, and there were tactical and strategic reasons why we did that, eventually we pulled everything under the scorpion brand except for scorpion health care and I'll tell you why in a second from a practical perspective.
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[SPEAKER_01]: To do it well, to have multiple brands, you need, effectively, multiple or dedicated brand managers to be able to really ensure that the brand messages consistent, that it's really brought to life through ongoing investment of time-moneyed resources.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so for those of us who don't have the luxury of having multiple brand managers to manage portfolio brands, it's best practice and my experience to bring it all under one brand so that it's cohesive.
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[SPEAKER_01]: For example, if you have a relatively typical agency size 10 to 20 to 30 people,
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[SPEAKER_01]: You probably don't want to build four to five different websites and manage four to five different brands on social media.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a lot of work and a lot of ground to cover and despite best intentions, I'll speak from my own experience.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That what you'll end up doing is ignoring three of them and then putting all your resources into one you look after about six months You realize that you haven't done anything with the three of the brands and then you have to make a decision.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So as it relates to Scorpion health care the reason why that maintained its own brand was because it was a Not only was it a different vertical, but it also was a different type of buyer
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[SPEAKER_01]: And what I mean by that is the core business at Scorpion was selling to attorneys, home service businesses, medical practices, these are local service-based businesses.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Healthcare was targeting large multi-location healthcare organizations, specifically hospitals, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Large hospital systems.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And as a result of that,
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[SPEAKER_01]: We wanted to maintain some separation from the positioning around helping small service base businesses.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so that was the core reason why.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And because it was a significant enough part of our business, we were able to dedicate resources to that brand and grow it as well.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's great.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That's cool.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Actually, I feel like that is the very conclusion point of kind of like if you're able to not only develop the strategy, but execute on that strategy for that separate brand, then it seems like it can be viable.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But it makes me think of how sometimes brands will also say, Oh, we need a for each location.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We need to have a separate social media account or social media accounts.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And they're for managing all of these different properties and assets and that is just it's a big challenge and so like I definitely see the desire and how that comes about But at the same time the practical sort of like execution of all of that you know sort of content that has to be generated just the time Well thinking about those different resources and assets out there it's a lot so I really appreciate that you know you had some pretty straightforward guidance of
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, hey, if you think you can juggle it, you know, and this is something you can act on you have enough people and resources to do that great, but, you know, for the most part, you could probably consolidate your and make more out of a strategy of galvanizing under a single brand or in this case, you had the resources to devote to both, but it's with concerted strategy concerted execution practice to make them both right.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The word I want to use is dedicated, like dedicated resources, which is hard to come by and for most people.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's got a lot of hats and yeah, it is hard to come by.
19:34.260 --> 19:34.760
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, cool.
19:34.820 --> 19:44.291
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, now I'm to dig in a little bit more to your own marketing because this is something that I'm really compelling about your strategy and also about, you know, I'm on the list.
19:44.351 --> 19:45.132
[SPEAKER_00]: I get this.
19:45.172 --> 19:56.725
[SPEAKER_00]: So you're, you lean on your email as a centerpiece of your own marketing and, you know,
19:56.705 --> 19:58.108
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I know this is funny.
19:58.128 --> 20:11.893
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I talked to a lot of marketing people in a lot of marketing people have, you know, their hands and so many baskets like, oh, this is this strategy and this is this strategy and this is what we're going to do here, but you're like, you know, like, I lean on my email.
20:12.033 --> 20:14.838
[SPEAKER_00]: I got one thing and I do a well and you just repeat it.
20:14.878 --> 20:16.401
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, I say, I kind of.
20:16.381 --> 20:24.074
[SPEAKER_00]: eyes in practice, you know, the yeah, optimizing the one thing and just keep make sure you're executing at the highest level you can on it.
20:24.474 --> 20:31.526
[SPEAKER_00]: So what you sort of brought you to that strategy and I you endorse it to other people.
20:32.487 --> 20:36.634
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so the overarching strategy to your point is
20:37.340 --> 20:41.348
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really hard to be good at a lot of things concurrently.
20:41.568 --> 20:53.352
[SPEAKER_01]: IEB have a fantastic YouTube channel as well as have a growing Instagram following, as well as having a thriving TikTok channel, as well as having a great email, as well as having a great podcast.
20:53.392 --> 20:58.622
[SPEAKER_01]: And so most of us have to pick our battles and play spets.
20:59.075 --> 21:17.505
[SPEAKER_01]: So that you can actually break through the noise and put your resources behind one or maybe a small handful of resources so that you can actually become great at producing whether videos or podcasts or emails and so I'm a big believer of focus obviously I build a lot of my the work I do around focus, but why email because
21:18.194 --> 21:23.179
[SPEAKER_01]: Email is one of those channels that you build direct access to your audience, right?
21:23.199 --> 21:27.063
[SPEAKER_01]: We all know that LinkedIn and all these other channels, you're renting your audience.
21:27.584 --> 21:35.872
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't care how much content you put up there and how much about following you build, ultimately that's not your audience.
21:35.892 --> 21:39.075
[SPEAKER_01]: However, email you get to own the audience.
21:39.976 --> 21:43.780
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's an interesting trend I've been following,
21:43.760 --> 21:47.746
[SPEAKER_01]: Nathan Barry who's the founder of kit or convert kit.
21:47.766 --> 22:06.696
[SPEAKER_01]: He's putting out some really great content and one of the things they've been talking about is this new trend where celebrities are starting their own newsletters people like little John Matthew McConaughey, many more Andrew Heberman all you do are launching newsletters and I think it's to do in part of the fact that
22:07.013 --> 22:16.485
[SPEAKER_01]: While they have, let's say podcast, they have these other channels, they're really able to create an intimate, almost one-to-one relationship with their audience as well as grow their audience directly.
22:17.106 --> 22:18.588
[SPEAKER_00]: Hmm, that's really cool.
22:18.708 --> 22:21.932
[SPEAKER_00]: I did not know Lil Jon has a...
22:21.952 --> 22:22.553
[SPEAKER_00]: I knew it.
22:23.134 --> 22:23.835
[SPEAKER_00]: I knew it.
22:24.316 --> 22:25.217
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, I am here.
22:25.317 --> 22:26.298
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a hundred percent.
22:26.558 --> 22:26.959
[SPEAKER_00]: You're right.
22:27.039 --> 22:27.720
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh my god.
22:27.920 --> 22:32.346
[SPEAKER_00]: That's it's doing exactly what it would tend to do.
22:32.562 --> 22:41.458
[SPEAKER_01]: So as a business owner and for my clients, I recommend that you own your audio, though, I'd recommend you own the direct relationship with the people you're trying to influence and help grow.
22:41.962 --> 22:42.543
[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
22:42.743 --> 22:43.023
[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
22:44.125 --> 22:49.130
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, you know, you basically are helping guide through challenges, you know, all the time.
22:49.351 --> 23:03.447
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, you know, when you're trying to help guide an organization and find a vertical specialization, you know, what are usually the challenges that are you're running into are they are they, um, leadership oriented.
23:03.427 --> 23:04.749
[SPEAKER_00]: Are they budget oriented?
23:05.049 --> 23:08.794
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is this something completely related to neither of those things?
23:09.215 --> 23:12.379
[SPEAKER_00]: And you're just unforeseen random things that happen all the time?
23:12.499 --> 23:14.282
[SPEAKER_00]: Or is there a through line?
23:14.302 --> 23:22.813
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so the context here is that there are a lot of agencies that get stuck in what I call the generalist trap.
23:23.474 --> 23:26.338
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'll walk you through this briefly so you can have a sense of it.
23:26.358 --> 23:28.080
[SPEAKER_01]: You could tell me whether or not this rings a bell.
23:28.220 --> 23:33.147
[SPEAKER_01]: So agency founder, that you mentioned you've been in business
23:33.127 --> 23:41.402
[SPEAKER_01]: Right, typically how agencies start as you have a technical founder, someone who is really interested in SEO or websites or PPC.
23:42.063 --> 23:43.606
[SPEAKER_01]: Or maybe they come from a sales background.
23:44.147 --> 23:50.038
[SPEAKER_01]: They get into business by letting their friends, cousins, family, you know, neighbors know that hey,
23:50.018 --> 23:53.985
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm starting to design websites who needs a website, have a thing, right?
23:54.025 --> 23:58.173
[SPEAKER_01]: So you just say yes to a lot of people, and of course they're your first clients.
23:58.814 --> 24:02.842
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you over-deliver for them, that results in referrals.
24:03.122 --> 24:04.345
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you get some more referrals.
24:04.405 --> 24:05.427
[SPEAKER_01]: You say yes to them.
24:05.447 --> 24:06.769
[SPEAKER_01]: And eventually you have a business.
24:06.849 --> 24:08.432
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe you have a couple of employees.
24:09.454 --> 24:10.035
[SPEAKER_01]: And
24:10.538 --> 24:34.453
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, with that comes, internally, a lot of context switching, because you're just saying yes, I said yes to a website today tomorrow maybe you say yes to a social media campaign maybe the next day you say yes to a reputation management strategy for another client right and when you have a lot of internal context switching, it leads to operational inefficiencies right.
24:34.433 --> 24:41.982
[SPEAKER_01]: and those inefficiencies results inevitably in having the founder be the bottleneck, right?
24:42.002 --> 24:47.709
[SPEAKER_01]: The bottleneck is that the founder is truly the only person in the company who knows what's happening everywhere.
24:48.990 --> 24:50.432
[SPEAKER_01]: What's happening?
24:50.772 --> 24:51.073
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
24:51.693 --> 24:52.334
[SPEAKER_01]: No.
24:52.354 --> 24:53.295
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what he did.
24:53.315 --> 24:56.319
[SPEAKER_01]: I was sold the scope with the deliverables timeline.
24:56.359 --> 25:01.605
[SPEAKER_01]: So that founder ultimately becomes the bottleneck which leads to, unfortunately,
25:01.585 --> 25:15.823
[SPEAKER_01]: over time, and with pressure, the quality of the work becomes, let's call it, commoditized, because the team doesn't have enough of a runway to really become excellent at any one thing, because of all this context switching.
25:15.843 --> 25:17.788
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, when you have a lot of
25:17.768 --> 25:46.206
[SPEAKER_01]: A product that's perceived as commodity people will trick your client's churn because they think that they can get the same thing or better somewhere else for less expensive and that client churn results in chasing revenue and then you start to cycle over because you start to say yes to everyone right when you're chasing revenue you got to make payroll you have a big overhead you have a vacation that your wife wants to take all right so you have to just say yes you get stuck in this hamster will that's what I call the generalist trap.
25:47.468 --> 26:07.317
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think one of the driving forces that gets people in this trap is because of what I think it has a human bias and the human bias is that more equals more, especially when we're talking about survival and in our world, it's not physical survival, but when you think about your business and all that.
26:07.297 --> 26:13.310
[SPEAKER_01]: that business represents as relates to your dreams, your hopes, your vision, levels of freedom, so on and so forth.
26:13.992 --> 26:14.753
[SPEAKER_01]: It is a big deal.
26:14.874 --> 26:26.419
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the myth that's out there is that if I cut off some of the market that I could say yes to, then I will be limiting my ability to be successful.
26:26.399 --> 26:38.596
[SPEAKER_01]: And of course, the reality is is that agencies and service-based businesses that specialize specifically in a vertical market grow 50 times faster and with more certainty than a generalist.
26:38.616 --> 26:42.882
[SPEAKER_01]: They have better growth rates, they have better client retention, all the great things that you want.
26:43.623 --> 26:44.784
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think it's fairly common.
26:44.804 --> 26:50.432
[SPEAKER_01]: There's no secret that there's no the riches are in the niches that that's a saying for a reason.
26:50.412 --> 26:58.766
[SPEAKER_01]: However, I think it goes against what a lot of entrepreneurs have been rewarded to do, which is to say yes to everyone.
26:59.247 --> 27:11.267
[SPEAKER_01]: So the number one is I think it is a overcoming a psychological barrier or a bias or an unconscious habit for us to say yes to everyone.
27:12.169 --> 27:15.795
[SPEAKER_01]: And usually what I find
27:15.961 --> 27:22.348
[SPEAKER_01]: People will not start saying no to bad fit or poor fit revenue until they've tried everything.
27:22.388 --> 27:23.794
[SPEAKER_01]: In other words,
27:25.310 --> 27:26.351
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, well, I'll back up.
27:26.371 --> 27:37.525
[SPEAKER_01]: So some context or some consequences of being too much of a generalist or having too much diversity in your client types, you end up competing on price.
27:37.945 --> 27:47.336
[SPEAKER_01]: You end up having clients who churn, you have slow and hard to close deals, all of those things.
27:47.977 --> 27:55.266
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what most people will do to address those is that they try to attack those problems
27:56.174 --> 28:05.089
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's client-churn, maybe you train your employees better, or you spend time doing SOPs and all these things, but it doesn't ever really move the needle, right?
28:05.610 --> 28:13.744
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you go through trying to whack them all these problems, when there's a more fundamental problem, which is the fact that you're serving two many different types of clients.
28:13.724 --> 28:26.805
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is only until they've tried everything else a couple of times that they realize, okay, maybe I need to check out this this stitching down, this vertical specialization thing, because everything else I'm trying is not working.
28:27.123 --> 28:28.426
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
28:28.746 --> 28:31.512
[SPEAKER_00]: A couple of times trying into a couple of ads.
28:31.612 --> 28:49.587
[SPEAKER_00]: That's the, I, I feel like this is one of those, you know, things that I've heard echoed by so many different agency owners that I've talked to and I love chatting with agency owners because like, yeah, at the end of the day, sometimes it's just the catharsis of being able to like talk about the struggles we seemingly all deal with.
28:49.567 --> 29:04.646
[SPEAKER_00]: And I will say this is one of the ones that I've gotten pretty much the same answer is that I used to have was that like, well, we can take on anything, you know, and I feel like there is some at the end of the day, the excitement behind what's a new industry.
29:04.706 --> 29:16.080
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a new and these people get me an opportunity to give my skills and, you know,
29:17.309 --> 29:26.916
[SPEAKER_01]: No problem to be a generalist agency, founder-led, the challenges come up when you want to build a larger more substantial agency.
29:26.936 --> 29:32.432
[SPEAKER_01]: When you want to have more, let's say distance as a founder from you and the day-to-day operations, right?
29:32.412 --> 29:44.243
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, the way out, or a way out, the way that I'm super passionate about that I've seen happen for your agency after agency is you decide to focus on a vertical market, right?
29:44.303 --> 29:54.773
[SPEAKER_01]: And so as a result of focusing your energy starting to build relationships and client, a book of clients in that vertical market, you begin to build some expertise, right?
29:54.794 --> 29:58.437
[SPEAKER_01]: You begin to be what the Bruce Lee saying, which is,
29:58.417 --> 30:01.640
[SPEAKER_01]: I fear not the man who has practiced a thousand kicks once.
30:01.740 --> 30:04.542
[SPEAKER_01]: I fear the man has practiced one kick a thousand times.
30:05.203 --> 30:07.425
[SPEAKER_01]: It's through that repetition, you get really good.
30:07.445 --> 30:17.854
[SPEAKER_01]: You'd be much more a process, or you actually could have really distinct advantages over time to working with you because you have that expertise.
30:17.874 --> 30:20.696
[SPEAKER_01]: It becomes a clear differentiator for you in the marketplace.
30:21.237 --> 30:28.423
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you're differentiated and you're able to solve a challenging problem for a specific audience,
30:28.403 --> 30:38.388
[SPEAKER_01]: And, of course, when you're able to charge more, you can attract better clients who actually value the work that you do, that pay you that premium, that stick with you for a long time, that refer their colleagues and friends.
30:38.468 --> 30:46.007
[SPEAKER_01]: And then, as a result of having premium clients that love you, you're able to get that scalable growth that you started the business to do in the first place.
30:46.038 --> 30:46.699
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
30:47.319 --> 30:49.642
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, boy, Corey, it just makes sense.
30:50.303 --> 30:53.066
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, yeah, there's a lot of times where I'd be like, Oh, what about this?
30:53.126 --> 30:54.087
[SPEAKER_00]: What about the southern side?
30:54.548 --> 30:55.669
[SPEAKER_00]: It is the challenge.
30:55.729 --> 31:02.577
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like as you are a generalist, you know, you start to think about the ways, maybe you yourself internally think about how you're differentiating.
31:02.877 --> 31:04.258
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, oh, well, we do WordPress.
31:04.779 --> 31:05.440
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, everybody.
31:05.540 --> 31:07.983
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, like, the so many agencies are doing that.
31:08.003 --> 31:09.364
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, well, we do WordPress special.
31:09.544 --> 31:09.885
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
31:10.145 --> 31:13.088
[SPEAKER_00]: But is that special enough for people recognize that?
31:13.228 --> 31:14.610
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, we do that.
31:14.590 --> 31:37.875
[SPEAKER_00]: And at the end of the day, you know, having exactly what you said, a way for you to differentiate yourself in the marketplace to have those repeatable systems patterns about approaching this sort of industry, not only lets you become a better servant of, you know, your clients, but also create better, more repeatable processes internally, which helps you make, you know, just a more efficient streamline organization.
31:37.895 --> 31:41.339
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all around, uh, darn it, you've convinced me.
31:41.539 --> 31:42.640
[SPEAKER_00]: I, I, I, I
31:42.620 --> 31:45.485
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I'll say something that potentially is controversial.
31:45.525 --> 31:48.550
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll love your take on this, which is my preference.
31:48.570 --> 31:50.353
[SPEAKER_01]: You talk about, I doubt about this in my book.
31:50.593 --> 32:06.940
[SPEAKER_01]: There are two different types of specialization, generally speaking, you specialize in who you serve, I eat regional banks and credit unions, or you can specialize in what you do WordPress sites or TikTok videos or whatever that is.
32:07.949 --> 32:15.982
[SPEAKER_01]: Based on the world we live in today, as we're recording, it's May 28, 2025, and the world is changing underneath our feet.
32:16.923 --> 32:23.494
[SPEAKER_01]: And the shift, of course, is the world of AI, and it's impacting every business, including the work that you and I do.
32:23.592 --> 32:42.073
[SPEAKER_01]: And the benefit to shifting to more of a vertical specialization versus a platform, let's call it specialization, is that there's a high likelihood of a Saturn have a crystal ball, but there's a high likelihood that the platforms that we've been used to over the last 10 to 20 years are going to be changing, however,
32:42.053 --> 32:50.650
[SPEAKER_01]: credit unions and local regional banks, certainly are still going to need to work with experts who understand how to help them to grow.
32:51.191 --> 33:04.517
[SPEAKER_01]: And as a vertical specialist, the tools may evolve over time, versus if your positioning is specifically on a platform, you potentially
33:05.037 --> 33:05.959
[SPEAKER_00]: Definitely.
33:06.059 --> 33:15.821
[SPEAKER_00]: Boy, well, that kind of gotten the next question really well and kind of answered it already, but it was about like, yeah, can you focus on a on a platform and that is really helpful.
33:16.041 --> 33:22.776
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm part of an agency cohort and actually one of the beliefs of like, you know, the, you know, people with inside the court is exactly that.
33:22.756 --> 33:25.299
[SPEAKER_00]: these platforms are going to change there.
33:25.619 --> 33:31.787
[SPEAKER_00]: Doesn't mean that they're going to go away entirely, but the advice and the expertise that we give will become our product.
33:31.967 --> 33:49.928
[SPEAKER_00]: And the more specialized, the more you know, sort of hyper-focused that can be, it can really, you know, that's something that sort of advice will continue to be beneficial to where as like if you focus on just a platform in general and that changes goes away entirely, you've lost your market.
33:49.908 --> 33:54.797
[SPEAKER_00]: but it's not like things and credit unions, the one that we chose to focus on are going away.
33:54.857 --> 33:57.221
[SPEAKER_00]: Things and credit unions are not going to go away.
33:57.241 --> 34:00.487
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, landscape of things could change because of crypto, but those are things we would become privy to throughout our exploration of this market.
34:00.507 --> 34:00.927
[SPEAKER_00]: So definitely.
34:00.947 --> 34:09.823
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
34:09.803 --> 34:10.765
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
34:11.226 --> 34:11.706
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, cool.
34:11.747 --> 34:34.107
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, um, you know, I will say founder lead sales is something that you've touched on you know quite a bit and hopefully something, you know, I, I get So this is how an organization Generally will start that, you know, and definitely in partnerships, I, I've heard it a million times, but it's like one guy's really good at sales and the other guy's really good at operations and you know
34:34.087 --> 34:34.628
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
34:35.108 --> 34:42.479
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's how, you know, it sort of, it goes, but, you know, getting out of that role, a founder lets sales can be extraordinarily tough.
34:42.720 --> 34:55.799
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think there's always a belief that no one can sell like the owner, not only have I heard my dad who was at the solo entrepreneur, you know, Taylor for years, you know, and yeah, yeah, I'll tell me the same thing as well.
34:55.999 --> 34:58.723
[SPEAKER_00]: Like other people are like, how nobody's really going to sell it like you.
34:58.783 --> 35:02.288
[SPEAKER_00]: But, you know, I know that that is kind of
35:02.268 --> 35:15.484
[SPEAKER_00]: hinge on something that the legacy experience the knowledge can't be transferred and therefore that's why nobody can select the owner but why do ideas like this persist and why are they false and how do you break out of it?
35:15.599 --> 35:35.667
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a great question and I think the reason why founders get stuck in sales or pulled back in sales when they want to escape when they think they're escaping they get pulled right back in and I think fundamentally it is because there is a lack of a proven process that does not have a requirement for the founder to be involved so.
35:35.950 --> 35:51.546
[SPEAKER_01]: Quite simply going back to the journalist's discussion we just had when every deal is bespoke when every deal is kind of based on what's happening in a sales conversation that the force the founder can cut any deal they want right they have that flexibility.
35:52.319 --> 35:58.427
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't want your sales team to cut any deal that they want, or they think that's going to close the business, right?
35:58.887 --> 36:01.911
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you can't leave it up to a sales person to figure it out.
36:02.712 --> 36:03.733
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll give you a quick example.
36:03.773 --> 36:16.529
[SPEAKER_01]: One of my clients who was transitioning, they were an agency that focuses on law firms, and they were working together to identify within law firms, what type of practice area?
36:16.549 --> 36:19.913
[SPEAKER_01]: And they chose family law, and one of the things
36:20.669 --> 36:23.532
[SPEAKER_01]: The the challenge was they had a very charismatic founder.
36:23.612 --> 36:25.174
[SPEAKER_01]: It was actually two founders of brothers.
36:25.675 --> 36:28.058
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the one of the brother was the the sales guy.
36:28.078 --> 36:29.499
[SPEAKER_01]: The other guy was the operations guy.
36:29.519 --> 36:30.100
[SPEAKER_01]: Very typical.
36:30.801 --> 36:35.366
[SPEAKER_01]: And the sales guy was really wanting to get out of the sales role.
36:35.707 --> 36:44.297
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately, very charismatic, good looking guy could sell, you know, watered with the ice suit and
36:44.277 --> 37:07.213
[SPEAKER_01]: Without really, this is not the way I would have recommended what he did is he went out and hired a sales professional who had a proven track record in the agency space and what this founder did is he found this person,
37:07.193 --> 37:13.205
[SPEAKER_01]: kind of walked away from sales, let this season expert come in and run sales.
37:13.325 --> 37:14.773
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, founder,
37:15.850 --> 37:34.629
[SPEAKER_01]: left him to do his thing, about six months later, Dr. Z's head back in in a meaningful way and found out that the, that this new salesperson that he had hired, this expert had wasted effectively six months not doing, not implementing any strategy, not implementing any infrastructure, just testing a lot of things.
37:34.649 --> 37:45.520
[SPEAKER_01]: So this founder, six months later, and wasted a lot of money on this expensive salesperson and lost a lot of opportunities, a lot of deals because they weren't focused.
37:45.955 --> 37:55.894
[SPEAKER_01]: The thing that he missed this founder in hiring this person was that he didn't have a proven system in place for this season salesperson to step into.
37:55.914 --> 38:00.402
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, the myth is that well, this person's done it before this person knows what they're doing.
38:00.422 --> 38:06.073
[SPEAKER_01]: They could just handle it sales is too critical to the businesses that you and I run right.
38:06.053 --> 38:17.985
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you have to, as a, as a founder, you have to have a proven system that you have built that you have run, you have tested and you brought in another person to run.
38:18.005 --> 38:20.873
[SPEAKER_01]: So that.
38:21.022 --> 38:25.312
[SPEAKER_01]: they are as effective or potentially even more effective than you, right?
38:25.473 --> 38:31.427
[SPEAKER_01]: That's the goal, but you requires you to actually build a system that does not, is not found or dependent.
38:31.447 --> 38:32.108
[SPEAKER_01]: So what does that mean?
38:32.589 --> 38:34.474
[SPEAKER_01]: It has to be somewhat productized.
38:35.015 --> 38:37.461
[SPEAKER_01]: The buyer doesn't have to know that, but there has to be
38:37.441 --> 38:43.230
[SPEAKER_01]: certain types of products, you sell at certain price points, basic, different, certain scopes and so on and so forth.
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[SPEAKER_01]: All of that cannot be left up to the salesperson.
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[SPEAKER_01]: They have to be able to have a very clear path that they walk down again and again and again.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And once they are able to produce again, that predictable outcome that says, good is what you're able to do is the founder, that's when you as the founder can start to step away.
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[SPEAKER_00]: that is awesome.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Great, great advice.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like that is really helpful to to know that it can't just be some amazing salesperson that comes in and solves every problem that you've ever had.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That doesn't mean that will stop a good salesperson from selling you on how they solve all of the problems.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You have to resist that in what I would recommend is.
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[SPEAKER_01]: In that context, you bring them in, have them run your system, and then iterate over time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But they have to run your system first because you've proven it out for your business.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Cool.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, anyone who is, you know, struggling under the weight of seemingly endless work as a business owner, but really needing to make that first step of getting out of, you know, that sort of, that grind.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have any advice for that first,
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[SPEAKER_01]: My recommendation is to seriously consider becoming a specialist in a vertical market.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Here's why.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Everything becomes easier.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You know which list to buy, which conferences to go to, which content to write, which website to build, which podcasts to launch, which podcasts to guests on.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Short of that, you're stuck doing the peanut butter strategy, which is you're trying to spread thin resources over a lot of different ground and it's very difficult to get traction doing that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I love peanut butter, but at the same time, thank peanut butter doesn't sound great.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So, we'll cool, we have one last question for you, Corey, and it's basically, you know, since we started with you, you know, I've had tons of, you know, sort of like conversations with, you know, agency owners that started generally and, you know, that like, you know, we can serve everybody.
40:48.222 --> 40:58.962
[SPEAKER_00]: What is the biggest catalyst, you know, is it the founder-led sales, what is, what's that thing that, you know, constantly brings people to the table.
40:58.982 --> 41:08.880
[SPEAKER_00]: I knew you're advice that for people to vertically specialize, but you know, what's usually the big thing that people are like, all right, I got to do some different and over dependence on imbounds and referrals.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And unfortunately, there is so many options today for people to hire an agency that it's difficult to really build predictability into your business as an agency owner when you're dependent on those two.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The typical example, when people call me, it's usually where in bounds are poor fit, where we're struggling there, or furls have dried up, one of our big clients have left, and we have no, we don't know what to do to go get more business, and we just need to figure this thing out.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's usually when they call me when they're in that pain point.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that that makes tons of sense.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I will say it was definitely a not, you know, the opportunity that we saw to, you know, partner with you was honestly that in and of itself.
41:56.164 --> 42:07.943
[SPEAKER_00]: We've benefited from having a great SEO strategy getting a lot of inbound leads, but exactly a lot of them being, you know, something that we'd have a, you know, good conversation, but needy the route them to other.
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[SPEAKER_00]: you know, partner agencies or them not just being a good fit.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And that did.
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[SPEAKER_00]: That got us to a place where I feel like it wasn't predictable.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't something that we could count on to grow.
42:19.039 --> 42:26.430
[SPEAKER_00]: It definitely brought in revenue and actually, you know, for all these years, you know, it basically drove consistent growth.
42:26.630 --> 42:32.158
[SPEAKER_00]: Even albeit small, sometimes a little bit bigger, but there was absolutely no consistency to it.
42:32.138 --> 42:53.286
[SPEAKER_00]: And recognizing those patterns that you get yourself in in a way you become I'm sure Courage is some degree a therapist for you know that you're doing the same thing over and over right Yeah, and I too have coaches and people I work with and master my groups because
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[SPEAKER_01]: everybody has blind spots and everybody has opportunities to grow.
42:56.958 --> 43:07.448
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I make sure that I'm always investing in my growth because I know that without that perspective, I'm not able to be as effective in the world as I want to be.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, well, cool.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I must say that you've given us, you know, so much good advice.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you so much for, you know, sharing your knowledge and expertise and definitely.
43:23.540 --> 43:44.417
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, so I have a book called Anyone Not Everyone and it is my five step process for escaping founder lead sales going from being that generalist to a vertical specialist and Brad, I love to give your listeners a free copy of the audio book right now, where they can go and start to listen to me it's my voice while be your your guide and in your pocket.
43:44.397 --> 43:52.968
[SPEAKER_01]: For the full audio books the same book that you can buy on Amazon on on audible and it also comes with a workbook in bonus videos and worksheets and all this stuff.
43:52.988 --> 43:54.510
[SPEAKER_01]: So a lot of great value there.
43:54.951 --> 43:55.532
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm fully free.
43:55.992 --> 43:58.436
[SPEAKER_01]: You just go to anyone not everyone dot com.
43:59.217 --> 44:03.182
[SPEAKER_01]: That's anyone not everyone dot com and you can get the auto book there.
44:03.905 --> 44:04.466
[SPEAKER_00]: That's awesome.
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[SPEAKER_00]: All right.
44:05.006 --> 44:07.509
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, thank you so much for that gift, the list.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And, and I will say that, you know, Rhonda on our team.
44:10.933 --> 44:12.555
[SPEAKER_00]: It's surely enjoyed it.
44:13.076 --> 44:21.526
[SPEAKER_00]: So, Colin, you know, I feel like this is one of those things that it was like, well, I was introduced to you, but then, you know, as people start reading the material digging into it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's cool.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's, you touch on a lot of different similar pain points that I know that a lot of people experience.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And it is.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's great to be able to understand that, you know, there is there is a trend in pattern.
44:32.239 --> 44:33.160
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a way to see through it.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So,
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I appreciate you offering that.
44:36.066 --> 44:37.209
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, absolutely, Brent.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks again for having me on.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, definitely.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks so much for being here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, uh, this has been another episode of Mix and Matchbox.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm your host, Brent Feldman.
44:45.869 --> 44:47.473
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll be back soon with more content.
44:47.613 --> 44:49.076
[SPEAKER_00]: Please like and subscribe.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks.