The End of Evangelion (1997) | Missing Frames #162

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Welcome to the nerd party hello and welcome to another
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episode of missing frames this is the podcast where we
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watch all the movies we should have seen by this
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point in our lives I'm your host, Sean Eastridge. We're
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hanging out on the Nerd Party Network, a collection of
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podcasts dedicated to all things entertainment. Make sure you are
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following us on all the socials at Join Nerd Party
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on Twitter.
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Facebook is just the Nerd Party.
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I think we're on threads now, Instagram threads, all of
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the socials. make sure you're following us everywhere. And I
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am very, very thrilled to bring back one of my
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dear friends, TC Padgett, to the show.
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Welcome back, TC.
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Thank you, Sean. As foretold by the Dead Sea Scrolls,
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I have returned to the Missing Frames podcast.
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And I'm so delighted because this is the first time
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we're going to be doing a film that I have
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not seen. You are introducing me to this movie.
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What film is that, TC?
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This would be The End of Evangelion to celebrate you,
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finishing the series, Neon Genesis Evangelion.
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Yes, which I have just finished for the first time.
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I have attempted to watch it a couple of times,
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and I say attempted, that makes it sound like it
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was a struggle, which it was not.
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I am just really terrible.
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At finishing shows, at finishing really games, like movies, it's fine.
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It's like a compact, like, oh, I watch it, it's
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an hour and a half, two hours, but For some reason,
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like certain TV series, certain video games, I'll get all
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the way up into the end.
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And then I just give it.
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Up for no reason. There's no reason. I'm just a
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terrible person.
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Well, Sean, my advice to you, you mustn't run away.
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Yes. And I think that is what this show finally,
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now that I've finished it, has taught me.
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Not to run away.
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It's also taught me many, many things that I don't
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fully understand. And I'm here or you're here to help
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me unpack those before we get into watching this.
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The actual movie.
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It's a daunting task, but I'll do my best.
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I believe in you.
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And I know you are, you're kind of the OG
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fan of this duo, but in terms of my experience
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with Evangelion, you are a part of that experience because
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the first time I watched it was with you in
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the room.
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With a big group of people. We all decided to
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watch it together.
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That was my first exposure to the show, even though
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I'd known about it and heard of it, I had
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never seen it, but you were a part of that.
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And now you get to be here.
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For the end. But what is your journey with Evangelion?
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Tell me, tell me everything.
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So I was introduced to Evangelion in high school. A
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friend of mine, so actually several friends of mine were
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much more well-versed in anime than I was, and still am.
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I'm not a huge anime person, but One of these
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friends had all the DVDs. I think there were like
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five episodes per DVD. And he was basically sharing them
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around our friend group. So I joined the queue. So
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we would have one friend would get it. They'd watch it.
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They'd hand it off to the next friend. And we
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passed them along until eventually we finished. the entire series
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and then and then after that.
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The yeah handing around the dvds.
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The movie uh at the end of that yeah it
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was it was definitely the uh the tape trading era
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except we'd moved on to dvds love it.
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But i uh i my anime journey i think i
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didn't realize you weren't that into anime as a whole
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like on the whole like i'm a big big anime fan.
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Yeah it's something that i wasn't I just wasn't super
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well-versed in it. When I was a kid, I had
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these Wizard of Oz cartoon movies that I didn't realize
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were anime, but they were. They were from Japanese studios.
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I had Superbook, which was a Christian anime. That was
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my first exposure. The Superbook was the Bible, and the
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kids would go on adventures and interact with the different
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various Bible characters.
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Now you've gone full circle because Neon Genesis Evangelion also
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about the Bible.
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Yes. Of course.
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Yes. I don't know which is the more effective adaptation
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of the Bible. But I and my journey with like
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I say I'm a big anime fan. I do love
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the the art form, but I would say on a
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broader level, like I don't really delve into like the niche,
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like getting into every single series. I've tried to watch
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things like One Piece and Attack on Titan, some of
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the things that are really, really big right now. And
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I just like can't get into some of it. But
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on a general level, like the works of Miyazaki and
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the movie Akira, like I'm very, very into more of
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the big name stuff. So I kind of am like,
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I don't know if you would call me like a
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mega fan of this genre, but I really love it
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and appreciate it. And I think my first exposure to
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it was probably like many of us Pokemon and there
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was a point where you started to hear, or at
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least I did, it was like, oh, you know, there
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are episodes of this show that have not aired in America.
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And I was like, wait, where did, it's not American. Like,
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where does it come from? Oh, it's from Japan. Okay.
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And that sort of started to open the door for me. Yeah.
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For me, it was Dragon Ball Z and similar things
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like you'd hear, oh, they censored some things that were
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more explicit in Japan. So yeah, you learn through that.
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Exactly.
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So I was learning about like, oh, there's some sort
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of material that we're not allowed to see. American kids
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aren't as mature as japanese kids were not allowed to
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see things and you hear about like oh there was
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an episode that caused seizures and that was banned and
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so there was just this kind of urban myth of
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oh it's com it's being imported from another country and
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some of the material is being kind of toned down
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and dumbed down for american kids to make sure no
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one is offended. Everyone's parents are okay with it. Yes.
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Won't someone please think of the children.
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Yes, please. And I, uh, I kind of, I, I
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started to get into, I think Digimon was really the
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gateway drug more than Pokemon for me, which is funny.
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Cause I remembered, uh, as a Pokemon fan, um, you know,
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being 12 years old and hearing about Digimon and thinking like,
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oh my God, like what a obvious tacky ripoff of Pokemon.
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And then I remember the first series came out. I
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didn't care about it. And then when the second series
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came out, I was like, well, wait a second. The
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kids are older. That's interesting. And Pokemon, of course, Ash
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and all the characters are eternally 10 years old, like
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Bart Simpson. And they just never age. obviously I'm very
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into the coming of age genre now. And I think
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Digimon kind of, it was like Digimon and Harry Potter
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kind of planted the seeds for that right around the
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same time. But I think Digimon for me was like, Oh,
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not only are these characters getting older and kind of
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dealing with more like things that a teenager would, and
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I was getting to that age, but also like, unlike Pokemon,
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Digimon very much takes place in the quote unquote real world.
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So Japan is, Tokyo and all these different locations were
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very much a part of the story. It was very
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much like, oh, these are Japanese kids living in the
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real world, but they get sucked into the computer and
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go to the digital world. I think that was really
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what my breakthrough was, going like, oh, now I really
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want to learn more about Japan and anime and what
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are the things that they're seeing that we're not allowed
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to see here in America and then that kind of
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was like great well Digimon is cool and all I'm
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gonna really dive off the deep end and like when
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I was 15 I was like well now I need
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to see this movie Akira that I've heard of and
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that was kind of like an explosion for me where
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it was like oh this is This is insane.
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That was another one. That same group of friends in
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high school loaned me Akira. That's my first time seeing that.
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Ghost in the Shell.
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Yes.
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Similar animes of that nature. Vampire Hunter D.
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Right, right.
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All the canon, essentially, of kids in the early 2000s.
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Exactly. I think for a lot of people, Akira was
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like a gateway.
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Yeah.
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Drug for them but.
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I never got into dragon ball z like i never
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got into those and i uh am still that is
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still a missing frame in my life like really watching dragon.
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Ball and that was a revelatory experience for me just
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because it was maybe the first cartoon i'd seen that
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wasn't episodic it was a true like saga playing out
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it was the closest i could get to seeing a
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comic book kind of playing out on screen right so
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yeah similar to what you were saying with digimon the
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character's aging and it it feeling that way yes um
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dragon ball z was that for me.
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That's right so digimon probably ripped that off too uh
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oh surely a lot of things have ripped off dragon
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ball to be fair but i uh neon genesis evangelion
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that's something that has it i've always kind of like
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It's been in my orbit and I've heard of it
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and like many, many things. And particularly, I think with anime,
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I'm kind of like when you start to get really,
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really deep into anime, like you can find some really crazy,
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wacky stuff. So there's a part of me that's like
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I will be like cautiously on the perimeter of like
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the anime fandom and pick and choose the things that
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are seem the most interesting to me. But I'd always
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heard amazing things and it had always been held in
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such high esteem. And it was just one of those
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where I was like, well, someday I'll get around to
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watching it.
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I don't know when. And then I think around 2017, 2018,
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when I moved to Atlanta.
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Was hanging out with you and our whole group of
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friends where we would all gather pre-covid that whole group
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is like they've all moved to different places and like
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some of them are not hanging out anymore so i
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remember we were all like we would gather and it
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was like oh great we're gonna watch this now would
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you be interested in coming and hanging out and watching
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it i was like yeah sure let's do it so
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that was like my that was my first introduction to
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the series is watching it with you and that whole group.
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And it was delightful.
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It's the only reason I know that fly me to
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the moon is supposed to be at the end of
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the show. Cause I think in many, in many, uh,
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streaming platforms, that song has been removed.
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Yeah, I know it's been removed on Netflix. I don't
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know what other streaming platforms the show might be on now.
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I know when it hit Netflix, licensing issues prevented it.
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And that's a shame because to me, that's just the
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experience you need to have. It's a classic anime opening
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versus anime ending because you've still been exposed to Cruel
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Angels thesis. So you're doing fine.
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Yes, we're good.
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You understand the glory of that opening, probably the greatest
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anime opening of all time. But then you had the
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very quiet contemplative anime ending. of Fly Me to the Moon.
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And you need that juxtaposition to really make it work,
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I think, to make it a true anime experience.
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Well, I got the true anime experience, I'm happy to say.
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And we watched it. I think we had some sort
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of downloaded episodes of the Japanese version, which I don't
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even think the Blu-ray was out at that time.
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Yeah, you could not get the DVDs in North America
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for a long time. I think they were out of
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print by the mid-2000s. I'm happy to say I got
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in by the end, by the mid 2000s, I had
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my big platinum box set that I still have. But yes,
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I don't know what the, I think, I think now it's,
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you can actually get the series again. I haven't looked
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into it, but I'm glad it's more available now.
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And with the Netflix release. Yeah.
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Yeah. So I, I think initially, and I think what's
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cool about anime is a lot of times with a
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lot of series that I think are a little bit
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more mature than something like Pokemon or Digimon, you typically
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will start off with something that's like, what a cool concept.
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People getting in these giant mech suits and fighting creepy,
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crazy monsters. And then after a little bit of that
248
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and some fun and zany ideas and stories and character stuff,
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it kind of then goes off the deep end and
250
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becomes like, also, what does it mean to be human?
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Do you have a soul?
252
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What is existence? And I remember being very taken aback by,
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I think, how quickly the show kind of veered off
254
00:12:05.320 --> 00:12:09.240
and started going into... that territory where it was just like,
255
00:12:09.379 --> 00:12:12.860
I thought this was a show about people and giant
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00:12:12.919 --> 00:12:16.750
robots fighting monsters. And now I'm pondering what the point
257
00:12:16.889 --> 00:12:19.909
of life is. And this is very, very crazy.
258
00:12:19.929 --> 00:12:23.009
Yeah. There's definitely a pivot point in the series, but
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I think it's hard to pinpoint exactly when that is.
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00:12:25.769 --> 00:12:29.639
And even then the early episodes still have signs of
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00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:32.259
where you're going to go. So I think a lot
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of people write off the first, portion of the series
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as more of just a basic giant mech anime before
264
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it gets into the highfalutin ideas of the latter part
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of the series but even then this those ideas are
266
00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:48.340
still there in miniature even in the early parts of
267
00:12:48.379 --> 00:12:50.720
the series you can't write it off at all it.
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Needs to be taken as a whole.
269
00:12:51.960 --> 00:12:54.990
For sure yeah i uh there's one episode i don't
270
00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:57.429
remember which one it is but it's like i don't
271
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remember if it's the one where shinji is stuck in
272
00:13:00.389 --> 00:13:05.139
the ava and starts like hallucinating and starts like asking
273
00:13:05.500 --> 00:13:08.210
questions about like, he starts talking to himself and it's like,
274
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I'm the Shinji that exists in someone in Masato's heart.
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And I'm the Shinji that, and it's like, what is happening?
276
00:13:13.990 --> 00:13:16.960
I think that's generally considered kind of the, the turning point,
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main turning point. But yeah, it's, it's there. It's there
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00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:22.059
throughout if you know where to look. Yes.
279
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But I'm here for that. That's what I want from like,
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That's what I want from all my stories. Like not
281
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just anime, but in general, I want like to delve
282
00:13:30.179 --> 00:13:32.909
into like, what does it mean to be human? So
283
00:13:32.929 --> 00:13:34.929
I remember being like very like, oh, this show is
284
00:13:34.990 --> 00:13:36.850
great and it's fun and it's exciting. And then when
285
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it kind of took veered off, I was like, whoa, whoa,
286
00:13:39.730 --> 00:13:42.590
stop the presses. This is a whole other level. For
287
00:13:42.649 --> 00:13:48.129
whatever reason, I was, I didn't finish the series and
288
00:13:48.169 --> 00:13:51.259
then COVID happened. And then we were no longer doing
289
00:13:51.440 --> 00:13:54.419
Evangelion Hangouts. And I think the group may have finished
290
00:13:54.750 --> 00:13:55.299
the show. Yeah.
291
00:13:55.330 --> 00:13:58.289
We didn't last much longer. We, we finished Ava. We
292
00:13:58.309 --> 00:14:00.769
watched the end of Ava and then we started cowboy bebop,
293
00:14:00.809 --> 00:14:02.909
which I that's, I'm in the position that you're in
294
00:14:02.950 --> 00:14:05.250
where we watched about half of cowboy bebop. And I
295
00:14:05.289 --> 00:14:06.870
was like, I'm having a great time. And then we,
296
00:14:07.009 --> 00:14:09.250
the group kind of dispersed and I've still never seen
297
00:14:09.309 --> 00:14:10.610
the cowboy bebop.
298
00:14:10.649 --> 00:14:12.549
We should do that too. Cause I, uh, I'm a
299
00:14:12.570 --> 00:14:13.889
big fan of cowboy bebop.
300
00:14:14.070 --> 00:14:17.029
But I, uh, I, I never got to the end.
301
00:14:17.149 --> 00:14:19.419
And then I tried to watch it a couple times and,
302
00:14:19.830 --> 00:14:21.250
And I think the last time I tried to watch
303
00:14:21.309 --> 00:14:23.610
it was right around the time we had our son, Rory.
304
00:14:24.350 --> 00:14:29.129
This was like 2021. Or no, 2022. And I watched,
305
00:14:29.389 --> 00:14:32.980
got all the way to the last two or three episodes.
306
00:14:33.299 --> 00:14:36.139
And then just stopped and started watching something else.
307
00:14:36.179 --> 00:14:37.080
It's a hell of a place to stop.
308
00:14:37.120 --> 00:14:40.620
Yeah. And so this just a few days ago, just
309
00:14:40.679 --> 00:14:42.500
last week. And I remember we were at Dragon Con.
310
00:14:42.519 --> 00:14:44.570
I was telling you I'm watching it and I'm almost done.
311
00:14:45.049 --> 00:14:47.090
And you pitch. You're like, well, we've got to watch
312
00:14:47.129 --> 00:14:47.830
End of Evangelion.
313
00:14:47.850 --> 00:14:52.840
End of Evangelion. And I was vaguely aware that the series,
314
00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:57.659
like the final couple episodes were somewhat controversial. And I
315
00:14:57.759 --> 00:15:02.929
didn't really know that much about why. So I was very,
316
00:15:02.970 --> 00:15:06.509
very curious and excited to see what would happen. And
317
00:15:06.629 --> 00:15:10.200
I guess it goes without saying that full spoilers for Evangelion,
318
00:15:10.320 --> 00:15:12.720
the series, and then obviously what we talked about the movie,
319
00:15:12.899 --> 00:15:15.850
but just giving you a chance to jump ship if
320
00:15:15.909 --> 00:15:19.809
you would like to watch this show. So the final
321
00:15:20.009 --> 00:15:26.440
two episodes kind of... Not completely, but mostly abandon the
322
00:15:26.919 --> 00:15:31.600
primary story of like we're fighting these angels and trying
323
00:15:31.639 --> 00:15:35.220
to save the planet. And it just becomes like an
324
00:15:35.279 --> 00:15:37.019
internal monologue.
325
00:15:37.320 --> 00:15:39.200
And I don't.
326
00:15:39.830 --> 00:15:47.649
Know exactly what happens. From what I understand, from a
327
00:15:47.690 --> 00:15:52.309
production standpoint, essentially the money and time ran out. And
328
00:15:52.330 --> 00:15:54.389
the creator of the show, they kind of had to
329
00:15:54.470 --> 00:15:58.309
rush and come up with something that was cheaper and
330
00:15:58.450 --> 00:16:00.169
just kind of quickly wrap things up.
331
00:16:00.210 --> 00:16:01.929
And that was kind of a problem for a lot
332
00:16:01.960 --> 00:16:05.580
of the series. When the show debuted, they had, I think,
333
00:16:05.580 --> 00:16:09.279
12 episodes ready to go. And that had taken them
334
00:16:09.320 --> 00:16:11.659
about two years to produce. And so then for the
335
00:16:11.740 --> 00:16:14.519
rest of the series, they were constantly under the gun,
336
00:16:15.159 --> 00:16:18.149
like trying to finish it in like a third of
337
00:16:18.190 --> 00:16:20.070
the time it took them to do the first 12 episodes.
338
00:16:20.460 --> 00:16:22.840
And by the time they got to those last two episodes,
339
00:16:22.879 --> 00:16:25.639
they were finishing the episodes in a matter of days,
340
00:16:25.940 --> 00:16:28.279
I think. It's kind of insane to think about.
341
00:16:28.700 --> 00:16:31.269
A good friend of mine, Matthew Schott, who has been
342
00:16:31.309 --> 00:16:33.110
on the show, I've known him for years. I think
343
00:16:33.690 --> 00:16:38.070
I had a memory of him explaining to me that
344
00:16:38.190 --> 00:16:41.129
the ending of the series, he's like, literally, there are
345
00:16:41.169 --> 00:16:43.899
just stick figures in the show. Because I remember watching
346
00:16:45.379 --> 00:16:48.240
the episodes and calling back to him telling me that
347
00:16:48.279 --> 00:16:54.389
and thinking- Oh, because at some point it's storyboards. Literally,
348
00:16:54.409 --> 00:16:58.210
you're looking at storyboards on screen. And then you're also
349
00:16:58.350 --> 00:17:04.700
seeing very crudely drawn characters instead of fully fleshed out
350
00:17:04.920 --> 00:17:09.619
and complete artists or art and things like that. So
351
00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:12.000
I remember thinking like, oh, this must be what he
352
00:17:12.019 --> 00:17:15.180
was talking about, that the show just kind of spirals
353
00:17:15.329 --> 00:17:18.410
and doesn't really finish. And it just becomes like Shinji-
354
00:17:19.099 --> 00:17:21.519
thinking to himself, but also then it kind of goes
355
00:17:21.579 --> 00:17:25.980
into the minds of the other characters, uh, Misato. And
356
00:17:26.019 --> 00:17:27.720
then the, what's the redheads name?
357
00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:28.539
Oscar.
358
00:17:28.740 --> 00:17:29.039
Yes.
359
00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:29.579
Oscar.
360
00:17:30.059 --> 00:17:32.920
And, uh, Ray, Ray.
361
00:17:33.400 --> 00:17:38.529
So each of them gets their own little mental breakdown
362
00:17:38.630 --> 00:17:41.730
slash like, here's how I feel. And it kind of
363
00:17:42.150 --> 00:17:44.529
the final episode, they're like, because we don't have much time,
364
00:17:44.549 --> 00:17:47.069
we're just going to focus on Shinji. Cause he's the
365
00:17:47.109 --> 00:17:49.119
main character. And I was like, I think that's a
366
00:17:49.140 --> 00:17:54.640
wise idea. So, and it abandons completely the overall premise
367
00:17:54.680 --> 00:17:57.319
of the show and sort of just becomes about him
368
00:17:57.700 --> 00:18:02.609
and his depression and the meaning of his life. And
369
00:18:03.349 --> 00:18:06.109
what does it like, do I, do people like me?
370
00:18:06.190 --> 00:18:06.950
Do I matter?
371
00:18:07.029 --> 00:18:09.509
Like what, all of this stuff. And I'm just kind
372
00:18:09.529 --> 00:18:11.670
of like, I, what's happening?
373
00:18:11.809 --> 00:18:13.670
What is going on? This is a lot.
374
00:18:13.809 --> 00:18:15.589
And this is, I don't know how I feel about this.
375
00:18:16.289 --> 00:18:18.759
Not in a bad way, but in a like, this
376
00:18:18.859 --> 00:18:22.420
is quite the turn for this show to take and
377
00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:25.700
feeling a little relieved that there, I knew that the
378
00:18:25.740 --> 00:18:28.859
movie was coming, but also like, did you know about
379
00:18:28.900 --> 00:18:33.160
the movie already when you watched the final episodes or
380
00:18:33.220 --> 00:18:35.039
were you kind of going into it thinking that was
381
00:18:35.099 --> 00:18:35.980
the end at first?
382
00:18:36.240 --> 00:18:38.250
I'm pretty sure I knew about the movie. It's hard
383
00:18:38.269 --> 00:18:41.210
to remember now it's been over 20 years, but I
384
00:18:41.269 --> 00:18:43.450
do think I knew the movie was coming because I
385
00:18:43.490 --> 00:18:45.690
was relying on my friends who had the DVDs to,
386
00:18:45.829 --> 00:18:50.210
to supply them to me. I think without knowing the
387
00:18:50.269 --> 00:18:55.619
movie was coming, that ending would have been pretty disappointing.
388
00:18:55.880 --> 00:18:59.759
I'm glad that it exists. And there's a lot of
389
00:18:59.779 --> 00:19:04.240
debate over this as to whether the movie, whether it
390
00:19:04.559 --> 00:19:11.009
replaces the series ending or whether it supplements it. And
391
00:19:11.049 --> 00:19:13.630
I think I fall in the latter camp. I'm glad
392
00:19:13.670 --> 00:19:16.829
to have both. I think if I only had the
393
00:19:16.869 --> 00:19:20.009
series ending, it would be pretty disappointing.
394
00:19:20.150 --> 00:19:20.569
Yeah.
395
00:19:21.190 --> 00:19:23.950
There's seems to be a debate. Like some people are like, oh,
396
00:19:24.009 --> 00:19:25.789
I prefer the series ending, which is interesting.
397
00:19:25.910 --> 00:19:28.450
Including people who worked on the show there. The, I
398
00:19:28.490 --> 00:19:32.259
think the assistant director, uh, he prefers the series ending.
399
00:19:32.380 --> 00:19:32.730
Yeah.
400
00:19:32.859 --> 00:19:35.299
And a lot of this is reflective of the main
401
00:19:35.339 --> 00:19:38.480
series director, Hideaki Anno. He's the name that is going
402
00:19:38.500 --> 00:19:41.259
to be tossed around a lot, probably because he's the
403
00:19:41.299 --> 00:19:43.730
big name of the show. Obviously, a lot of people
404
00:19:44.160 --> 00:19:46.440
worked on the show, but he comes up the most.
405
00:19:46.460 --> 00:19:46.880
Right.
406
00:19:46.940 --> 00:19:50.960
And it's his battles, his own personal battles. with depression.
407
00:19:51.240 --> 00:19:51.519
Yes.
408
00:19:51.859 --> 00:19:56.799
And various, uh, and getting into psychology and philosophy and
409
00:19:56.859 --> 00:20:00.670
stuff that kind of fuel where the series goes. So
410
00:20:00.910 --> 00:20:03.690
you see a lot of that discussion. And when we're
411
00:20:03.710 --> 00:20:06.170
talking about, uh, end of Ava as well, which we'll
412
00:20:06.190 --> 00:20:09.240
get into, and then the series ending about Just what
413
00:20:09.279 --> 00:20:12.720
it means for him to overcome his own personal trauma
414
00:20:13.839 --> 00:20:17.990
through Shinji and how that reflects the human condition. And
415
00:20:18.009 --> 00:20:21.410
I don't know, you get into some really philosophical ideas
416
00:20:21.450 --> 00:20:22.829
that we're going to explore more.
417
00:20:22.890 --> 00:20:26.569
Yeah, well, that's exciting. And that's exactly what it felt like.
418
00:20:26.630 --> 00:20:29.089
I didn't read too much into it until after I'd
419
00:20:29.150 --> 00:20:32.390
finished the series, but... it felt, I was like, this
420
00:20:32.769 --> 00:20:36.250
feels like the showrunner was like, I just need to
421
00:20:36.269 --> 00:20:39.230
trauma dump and let me just work through all of this.
422
00:20:39.690 --> 00:20:40.890
But also it's just going.
423
00:20:40.809 --> 00:20:43.099
To be the final two episodes. Let me work through
424
00:20:43.230 --> 00:20:44.210
what I'm going through.
425
00:20:44.450 --> 00:20:47.019
And as far as, so you knew the movie was coming. If, if,
426
00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:49.099
if you did not know that, do you, how would
427
00:20:49.140 --> 00:20:49.900
you have felt about?
428
00:20:50.079 --> 00:20:52.240
I still would have thought this series was great, but
429
00:20:52.299 --> 00:20:55.519
I would have been, I would have, I think I
430
00:20:55.559 --> 00:20:57.970
would have been disappointed in the ending strictly because it,
431
00:20:58.359 --> 00:21:03.799
it doesn't, The content of the episodes themselves is really interesting.
432
00:21:03.859 --> 00:21:07.380
And I really like the idea of him really delving
433
00:21:07.420 --> 00:21:12.269
into what he was going through, through these characters and
434
00:21:12.309 --> 00:21:17.450
kind of really addressing his depression and really full on.
435
00:21:17.970 --> 00:21:20.950
He goes very, very deep to the point where I
436
00:21:20.950 --> 00:21:23.470
think a lot of people, when I say a lot
437
00:21:23.490 --> 00:21:27.509
of people, the general population is very condescending about animation.
438
00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:31.150
In America, I mean, Western audiences are pretty condescending about
439
00:21:31.210 --> 00:21:34.900
animation and certainly anime. And I don't think many of
440
00:21:34.940 --> 00:21:38.579
them realize just how incredible the medium is and just
441
00:21:38.740 --> 00:21:43.940
the insane amount of storytelling opportunities it allows for. And
442
00:21:43.980 --> 00:21:49.519
I think Evangelion, certainly as much as anything I've seen
443
00:21:49.559 --> 00:21:56.130
dealing with themes of depression and self-hatred and identity, it's
444
00:21:56.750 --> 00:22:03.930
incredible what he's trying to figure out. He kind of
445
00:22:03.970 --> 00:22:08.769
talks about Shinji, who's been abandoned by... His mother died
446
00:22:08.809 --> 00:22:11.869
and then his father basically doesn't want him and is...
447
00:22:12.539 --> 00:22:17.180
feels only is finally found a purpose in his life. And,
448
00:22:17.319 --> 00:22:20.119
but also feels like, what am I outside of like
449
00:22:20.619 --> 00:22:25.049
being an Ava pilot? And there's a really heartbreaking moment
450
00:22:25.069 --> 00:22:27.269
where I think, I don't remember the exact line where
451
00:22:27.309 --> 00:22:30.710
he basically is like, people like me because I'm really
452
00:22:30.750 --> 00:22:32.970
good at piloting the Ava. I'm the only one who
453
00:22:33.009 --> 00:22:35.710
can do it. So people like me, but can, could
454
00:22:35.750 --> 00:22:38.670
you just be kind to me, please? Like, he's like begging, like,
455
00:22:40.210 --> 00:22:41.759
I'm glad people like me because of this, but could
456
00:22:41.839 --> 00:22:43.200
anyone just be kind to me?
457
00:22:43.839 --> 00:22:46.180
I thought that was really interesting.
458
00:22:47.400 --> 00:22:52.309
Just an interesting examination of humanity and what we strive for.
459
00:22:52.329 --> 00:22:53.609
He talks a lot about how.
460
00:22:56.660 --> 00:23:00.400
Your perception of yourself is really only in your own
461
00:23:00.460 --> 00:23:03.769
mind and who you really are can be defined by
462
00:23:03.829 --> 00:23:06.190
what the people around you think and why we need
463
00:23:06.250 --> 00:23:08.829
people in our lives to kind of help us define
464
00:23:08.930 --> 00:23:11.950
who we are. And the last couple episodes are basically
465
00:23:12.009 --> 00:23:16.789
just examining that idea, which is really fascinating and really incredible.
466
00:23:16.950 --> 00:23:19.390
And I kind of loved it. But then on a
467
00:23:19.450 --> 00:23:22.569
storytelling level, I was kind of like, well, I hope
468
00:23:22.690 --> 00:23:26.099
the end of Evangelion kind of actually like even if
469
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:28.039
it doesn't wrap up, I don't need an answer to the,
470
00:23:28.109 --> 00:23:29.289
I don't necessarily need to.
471
00:23:29.269 --> 00:23:32.150
Know like, what are the, uh, the angels? Why did
472
00:23:32.210 --> 00:23:33.349
they attack us?
473
00:23:34.390 --> 00:23:36.769
I don't necessarily need to know that. I'm the kind
474
00:23:36.809 --> 00:23:39.400
of person who like really loved the lost finale. And
475
00:23:39.680 --> 00:23:41.339
there are lots of people who hated it because it
476
00:23:41.380 --> 00:23:43.880
doesn't answer any questions, but I kind of loved it
477
00:23:43.920 --> 00:23:45.539
because I'm like, well, it didn't need to, it just
478
00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:49.349
needed to like, answer what these characters are going through
479
00:23:49.369 --> 00:23:51.289
and kind of give them a little send off and
480
00:23:51.329 --> 00:23:55.279
conclusion so i appreciated a lot of what was being
481
00:23:55.359 --> 00:23:59.279
examined thematically but also was like okay but i also
482
00:23:59.299 --> 00:24:03.200
would like to see where was this going like where
483
00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:05.819
is this gonna go and i know on some level
484
00:24:05.859 --> 00:24:08.740
the movie at least feels a little bit more like
485
00:24:09.750 --> 00:24:15.329
it's if not like a real conclusion that sort of
486
00:24:15.410 --> 00:24:19.910
wraps up everything, it at least is kind of, it's
487
00:24:19.950 --> 00:24:23.680
a little bit more focused on where the series, like
488
00:24:23.720 --> 00:24:24.640
the overall story.
489
00:24:24.680 --> 00:24:27.380
From what I understand, the movie is taking kind of
490
00:24:27.440 --> 00:24:31.819
where they wanted to go in part, and then partly
491
00:24:32.769 --> 00:24:35.049
expounding on these ideas from the series. I won't say
492
00:24:35.089 --> 00:24:38.609
too much, but that's, it's kind of expanding on ideas
493
00:24:38.619 --> 00:24:40.759
they had and ideas they had while making it.
494
00:24:41.089 --> 00:24:41.289
Yeah.
495
00:24:41.609 --> 00:24:44.630
Um, and I'm, I am casting my mind back to
496
00:24:44.650 --> 00:24:47.759
like 2003, 2004 when I first saw this and I
497
00:24:47.799 --> 00:24:51.250
was definitely the kind of kid who was very much
498
00:24:51.309 --> 00:24:56.650
more interested in everything being easy to solve or trying
499
00:24:56.690 --> 00:24:59.579
to solve it. I didn't have the internet at my
500
00:24:59.619 --> 00:25:02.880
house growing up, but I would go to my local library,
501
00:25:02.940 --> 00:25:06.319
shout out local libraries, to look up Ava fan sites
502
00:25:06.359 --> 00:25:10.000
and be like, what did this mean? Explain Lilith to me.
503
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:12.880
What is this? And just getting really immersed in like,
504
00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:15.539
what is Kabbalah? I'm learning all this stuff for the
505
00:25:15.559 --> 00:25:18.000
first time. And that's the kind of stuff I was into.
506
00:25:18.059 --> 00:25:24.660
Whereas- As time goes on, I get older, I learn
507
00:25:24.700 --> 00:25:26.940
more about the human condition by being a human in
508
00:25:27.000 --> 00:25:30.809
the world. And I realize what Ava is trying to
509
00:25:30.890 --> 00:25:34.329
communicate in better ways where it's like these things in
510
00:25:34.390 --> 00:25:39.250
the story are literal, but they're also symbols. It's not
511
00:25:39.329 --> 00:25:43.240
really about trying to solve something. It's about a feeling.
512
00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:46.119
It's about trying to communicate what it is to be
513
00:25:46.180 --> 00:25:49.900
human in the world. that's shinji's big dilemma i think
514
00:25:49.960 --> 00:25:53.700
the series uh really there's a lot of things you
515
00:25:53.720 --> 00:25:56.279
can say about what it's trying to communicate i often
516
00:25:56.319 --> 00:25:58.549
think about the hedgehog's dilemma they talk about in the
517
00:25:58.589 --> 00:26:02.849
series where people need to be close but they're inevitably
518
00:26:02.910 --> 00:26:06.210
going to hurt each other and how do you reconcile
519
00:26:06.250 --> 00:26:06.769
that yeah and.
520
00:26:06.730 --> 00:26:08.769
Also like the idea of like we all die alone
521
00:26:08.849 --> 00:26:13.130
anyway like it's The show lays bare a lot of
522
00:26:13.230 --> 00:26:16.349
really intense, deep emotional stuff that I think somebody who
523
00:26:16.589 --> 00:26:20.789
is maybe of the perspective that like, oh, how deep
524
00:26:20.829 --> 00:26:25.880
could an animated show for children be? I would absolutely
525
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:27.759
get a kick out of showing them this series and
526
00:26:28.140 --> 00:26:34.640
deeply disturbing them. But that's what I– that's kind of
527
00:26:34.799 --> 00:26:38.500
what I want. I think that's what makes– anime, certainly
528
00:26:38.720 --> 00:26:41.460
anime that is most successful to me. So special is
529
00:26:41.480 --> 00:26:43.779
I think because the standards in Japan are a little
530
00:26:43.799 --> 00:26:46.230
bit different than America. They see this art form as
531
00:26:46.529 --> 00:26:51.190
something that is credible and meaningful beyond just like something
532
00:26:51.230 --> 00:26:56.630
that like sell toys and show to kids. So I, uh, I,
533
00:26:57.440 --> 00:27:02.430
I feel, I feel very excited. I think the show
534
00:27:02.990 --> 00:27:04.849
itself is great, and I think even if I didn't
535
00:27:04.910 --> 00:27:06.990
have this movie, I still would have been like, oh,
536
00:27:06.990 --> 00:27:09.420
this is one of the best anime out there. And
537
00:27:09.539 --> 00:27:12.059
certainly the ending leaves a lot to be desired, but
538
00:27:12.099 --> 00:27:15.400
certainly has a lot to discuss. And one of the
539
00:27:15.539 --> 00:27:19.049
other crazy things about it for me is just– we
540
00:27:19.089 --> 00:27:22.410
talked about it, but– going to Letterboxd's top 500 films
541
00:27:22.450 --> 00:27:26.720
of all time. So Letterboxd is obviously a very particular
542
00:27:26.799 --> 00:27:29.799
audience of film snobs who love to log and rate movies,
543
00:27:30.039 --> 00:27:32.420
and they don't pay me for saying all of the
544
00:27:32.460 --> 00:27:35.200
wonderful things I do about them. But it is great,
545
00:27:35.259 --> 00:27:37.289
and if you don't have an account, you should. But
546
00:27:37.569 --> 00:27:42.309
like IMDb, Letterboxd has a top 500 films based on
547
00:27:42.329 --> 00:27:45.809
a rating system, like how many people have rated.
548
00:27:45.609 --> 00:27:46.210
A film highly.
549
00:27:46.789 --> 00:27:48.549
And like a lot of what you see in this
550
00:27:48.569 --> 00:27:51.710
top 500 is what you would expect, like the Godfathers
551
00:27:51.769 --> 00:27:54.460
on there, the Lord of the Rings, some Kurosawa films,
552
00:27:54.460 --> 00:27:57.740
12 Angry Men. And what has been fascinating to me
553
00:27:58.579 --> 00:28:04.420
is the top 30 films of all time, the end
554
00:28:04.440 --> 00:28:07.609
of Evangelion is within the top 30 films of all time,
555
00:28:07.730 --> 00:28:10.109
which says to me, I mean, I'm sure there's some
556
00:28:10.210 --> 00:28:12.730
overlap in these audiences, but it says to me that like,
557
00:28:13.640 --> 00:28:19.339
the film snob cinephile community has embraced this film enough
558
00:28:19.420 --> 00:28:23.309
to rank it higher than any Hayao Miyazaki movie. It
559
00:28:23.369 --> 00:28:30.309
ranks higher than Sunset Boulevard, Goodfellas, Interstellar, Kubrick, Do the
560
00:28:30.349 --> 00:28:34.809
Right Thing, Princess Mononoke. I'm just looking through this list
561
00:28:34.930 --> 00:28:38.380
of like, you know, it's ranked higher than Paris, Texas
562
00:28:38.599 --> 00:28:46.410
and Hitchcock. Like, That's crazy to me. As a fan
563
00:28:46.559 --> 00:28:48.660
of the series, on the one hand, I'm excited to
564
00:28:48.700 --> 00:28:52.599
watch the film and enjoy it on that level. But
565
00:28:52.940 --> 00:28:57.200
as nerdy cinephile brain, I'm like, this is kind of
566
00:28:57.900 --> 00:29:04.210
fascinating that this film has somehow breached cinephile world. where
567
00:29:04.329 --> 00:29:06.450
I think typically the works of Miyazaki are kind of
568
00:29:06.490 --> 00:29:09.089
held in high esteem and most other anime is sort
569
00:29:09.109 --> 00:29:11.210
of like, and then there's all the other stuff like
570
00:29:11.250 --> 00:29:14.470
Akira and Grave of the Fireflies, which is the only
571
00:29:14.589 --> 00:29:15.309
anime that.
572
00:29:15.710 --> 00:29:18.569
Is higher than- Hideaki Anno also worked on.
573
00:29:18.829 --> 00:29:19.230
Oh, right.
574
00:29:19.250 --> 00:29:22.690
Which I believe he mentioned his depression kind of started
575
00:29:22.750 --> 00:29:24.609
around them, which I'm like, can't imagine why.
576
00:29:24.690 --> 00:29:31.789
No, not at all. But like, my cinephile brain is
577
00:29:32.009 --> 00:29:34.359
fascinated by the fact that this is so high on
578
00:29:34.839 --> 00:29:37.380
this list and not like i'm going into this expecting
579
00:29:37.400 --> 00:29:39.390
like this better be the godfather or else i'm going
580
00:29:39.410 --> 00:29:42.069
to be really pissed off but like.
581
00:29:41.779 --> 00:29:45.779
That's pretty amazing it's higher than there will be blood
582
00:29:45.880 --> 00:29:49.839
i mean like this is a film site basically ruled
583
00:29:49.920 --> 00:29:54.039
by film nerds and the fact that this ranks so highly.
584
00:29:54.099 --> 00:29:59.450
Amongst all the like Film nerd movies and higher than
585
00:29:59.470 --> 00:30:01.869
a lot of the ones you would expect to be.
586
00:30:02.869 --> 00:30:04.500
I wouldn't have expected it to be on this list
587
00:30:04.539 --> 00:30:07.279
at all, frankly, like not because it's not good or
588
00:30:07.319 --> 00:30:10.960
not worthy, but because it's like typically this kind of
589
00:30:10.980 --> 00:30:15.079
stuff doesn't. it doesn't fit in that that box if
590
00:30:15.099 --> 00:30:18.000
that makes sense i think there's it's just indicative of
591
00:30:18.059 --> 00:30:20.880
the influence of this movie like the quality as well
592
00:30:21.059 --> 00:30:23.519
but but the influence of this movie is so far
593
00:30:23.599 --> 00:30:27.119
reaching that i don't think we even realize how many
594
00:30:27.200 --> 00:30:30.819
things uh have been influenced by it yeah because it's
595
00:30:30.839 --> 00:30:34.019
just so in the culture yeah within japan and here
596
00:30:34.039 --> 00:30:37.859
and just worldwide really yeah very much so um I
597
00:30:38.119 --> 00:30:41.539
know I typically ask for people to guess what the
598
00:30:41.579 --> 00:30:44.799
plot of the movie they're about to watch is when
599
00:30:44.839 --> 00:30:49.119
they haven't seen it. I mean, I don't know what–
600
00:30:49.140 --> 00:30:51.259
I have.
601
00:30:50.299 --> 00:30:52.680
No idea what this movie will be about.
602
00:30:53.420 --> 00:30:56.369
What I'm hoping for, what I would love is a
603
00:30:56.450 --> 00:31:01.710
kind of– I would like to see some kind of
604
00:31:02.150 --> 00:31:07.670
resolution– to Shinji's story to find out what happens to
605
00:31:07.710 --> 00:31:10.390
some of these characters and see what is the outcome
606
00:31:10.430 --> 00:31:15.690
of this battle between this mysterious force and us?
607
00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:17.599
Does humanity survive? What happens?
608
00:31:18.359 --> 00:31:20.799
I don't need it to be totally conclusive. I don't
609
00:31:20.839 --> 00:31:23.740
need this to end and have everything, like you said,
610
00:31:23.779 --> 00:31:25.640
tied up in a neat bow. I don't need any
611
00:31:25.660 --> 00:31:28.920
of that, but I would like to feel emotionally satisfied
612
00:31:29.000 --> 00:31:31.619
on some level with the sense of, oh, they did
613
00:31:31.680 --> 00:31:37.920
these characters justice. I think the last scene in The
614
00:31:38.000 --> 00:31:41.660
final episode of the series is everyone giving Shinji a
615
00:31:41.799 --> 00:31:42.619
standing ovation.
616
00:31:42.640 --> 00:31:45.670
A famous scene. Yes. Where they're just saying, I don't
617
00:31:45.690 --> 00:31:48.829
know the Japanese word, but congratulations. Yes. That's what they're saying. Yes.
618
00:31:48.910 --> 00:31:53.549
They applaud him because he has overcome his depression by realizing,
619
00:31:53.589 --> 00:31:56.880
I want to be me. And everyone's like, yes, you've
620
00:31:56.910 --> 00:31:59.819
done it. And I almost thought, am I being trolled
621
00:31:59.859 --> 00:32:00.220
right now?
622
00:32:00.460 --> 00:32:03.559
This is ridiculous. They give him a standing ovation for
623
00:32:04.160 --> 00:32:05.019
defeating depression.
624
00:32:05.039 --> 00:32:11.309
Yeah. I, uh, that is interesting, but not necessarily very
625
00:32:11.369 --> 00:32:13.849
satisfying on a storytelling level.
626
00:32:13.930 --> 00:32:16.750
It reminds me of playing cause I'm a big final fantasy,
627
00:32:16.809 --> 00:32:19.950
just square Enix, old school square soft kind of guy.
628
00:32:20.210 --> 00:32:23.470
And so just, uh, It's very much like when you
629
00:32:23.490 --> 00:32:25.269
get a boss at the end of a Final Fantasy
630
00:32:25.289 --> 00:32:27.650
game who's not been in the game at all. He's
631
00:32:27.690 --> 00:32:32.470
just an embodiment of nothingness and non-existence. And he's like,
632
00:32:32.490 --> 00:32:34.630
don't you just want to die? And you're like, no,
633
00:32:34.690 --> 00:32:36.799
I will fight you. I will beat the embodiment of
634
00:32:36.839 --> 00:32:40.700
despair and affirm that my life has meaning. And it
635
00:32:40.799 --> 00:32:43.859
feels very much like that. We're out of nowhere. It's
636
00:32:43.900 --> 00:32:46.259
not really out of nowhere, but it's.
637
00:32:46.359 --> 00:32:47.380
It felt so.
638
00:32:47.440 --> 00:32:49.599
Once I read about the production troubles, I was like,
639
00:32:49.619 --> 00:32:52.779
that makes so much sense because it feels almost... It
640
00:32:52.859 --> 00:32:55.589
almost felt to me like Anno was like... Somebody was
641
00:32:55.619 --> 00:32:58.349
telling him, you have to wrap this up or you
642
00:32:58.369 --> 00:32:59.690
have to do this particular thing.
643
00:33:00.009 --> 00:33:01.829
And he was just like, ah, screw it. I'm going
644
00:33:01.950 --> 00:33:04.130
to just do something that's kind of a parody of that.
645
00:33:04.410 --> 00:33:07.859
Well, it's production troubles. It's... I think... So, like, the
646
00:33:07.900 --> 00:33:09.619
movie was made in... Because.
647
00:33:10.960 --> 00:33:11.279
To.
648
00:33:11.259 --> 00:33:16.029
Probably not the shock of anyone, the episodes were not well-received.
649
00:33:16.569 --> 00:33:19.309
Many fans sent in angry letters. I think Anno got
650
00:33:19.329 --> 00:33:22.970
some death threats because fan culture has truly not changed
651
00:33:22.990 --> 00:33:27.539
since the mid-90s. So the movie in part was made
652
00:33:27.619 --> 00:33:30.799
in response to to that i i feel like with
653
00:33:30.859 --> 00:33:33.880
the production timing they may have already known they were
654
00:33:33.920 --> 00:33:35.200
going to do a movie i don't know that for
655
00:33:35.240 --> 00:33:38.660
a fact yeah but i definitely they the stated reason
656
00:33:38.700 --> 00:33:40.240
is like oh we're going to give the fans what
657
00:33:40.279 --> 00:33:42.980
they want we're going to give them the movie to
658
00:33:43.079 --> 00:33:45.920
end the series uh quote unquote the right way.
659
00:33:45.859 --> 00:33:47.640
Right and you know there's a part of me that
660
00:33:47.700 --> 00:33:49.390
is like i you know i'm a firm believer in
661
00:33:49.420 --> 00:33:51.529
like let the artists do what they want but i
662
00:33:51.650 --> 00:33:55.579
think What's nice about this in terms of fan service
663
00:33:55.680 --> 00:33:58.599
is it seems at least from the outside looking in
664
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:01.859
to have paid off as far as like the reputation
665
00:34:01.900 --> 00:34:04.599
of the film is pretty high, even in the debates
666
00:34:04.880 --> 00:34:07.480
of people saying, well, I prefer the series.
667
00:34:07.240 --> 00:34:07.880
Ending or whatever.
668
00:34:09.369 --> 00:34:12.389
Number 30 on the list of Letterboxd's top 500 films
669
00:34:12.429 --> 00:34:16.449
of all time. No, number 27. It's pretty insane. I
670
00:34:18.090 --> 00:34:21.699
think that says something about the film. So I, yeah. I,
671
00:34:21.760 --> 00:34:25.500
what I would love is just like, uh, what you
672
00:34:25.539 --> 00:34:28.260
were saying. I don't want to necessarily understand. I just
673
00:34:28.280 --> 00:34:29.880
want to like feel it. And I want that feeling
674
00:34:29.920 --> 00:34:33.710
to feel good. I want to feel satisfied. And also
675
00:34:33.769 --> 00:34:35.530
I'm like kind of dreading where this is going. The
676
00:34:35.590 --> 00:34:40.980
existential despair of this series is like, Really, truly something else.
677
00:34:41.199 --> 00:34:44.059
So I'm kind of like bracing myself, but also very
678
00:34:44.119 --> 00:34:48.369
excited because it also is kind of like, I'm like, oh,
679
00:34:48.389 --> 00:34:50.250
it hurts so good. This is what I want.
680
00:34:50.309 --> 00:34:51.260
It hurts, but I love it.
681
00:34:51.389 --> 00:34:52.670
The juice will be worth the squeeze.
682
00:34:52.690 --> 00:34:54.840
Yes, I'm excited. So let's do it. Let's watch it.
683
00:35:04.369 --> 00:35:06.809
Now available to own on videocassette.
684
00:35:08.260 --> 00:35:13.179
All right, TC, we have literally just returned. from watching
685
00:35:13.380 --> 00:35:17.699
End of Evangelion. Sometimes with missing frames, we are able
686
00:35:17.760 --> 00:35:22.010
to take some time, days even, between recording or watching
687
00:35:22.050 --> 00:35:25.269
the movie and then talking about it. This, we're immediately
688
00:35:25.429 --> 00:35:26.190
leaping right in.
689
00:35:26.530 --> 00:35:29.170
Much like Shinji, we were in the soup, and now
690
00:35:29.309 --> 00:35:30.070
we're out of the soup.
691
00:35:30.110 --> 00:35:35.010
Yes, and I have so many feelings, so much. I mean,
692
00:35:35.250 --> 00:35:38.730
first and foremost, I mean, I loved it. This is
693
00:35:38.829 --> 00:35:39.119
what I.
694
00:35:41.409 --> 00:35:43.730
I said to you when we hit the intermission, I'm like, well,
695
00:35:43.769 --> 00:35:45.610
this is what I wanted. Like, that's what I would
696
00:35:45.650 --> 00:35:51.110
expect from the end of Evangelion. It's an insane movie.
697
00:35:51.230 --> 00:35:52.789
This is an insane movie.
698
00:35:52.969 --> 00:35:57.030
It is a lot of, a lot of things. And
699
00:35:57.989 --> 00:36:02.539
it's almost like as abstract as those final two episodes were,
700
00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:06.639
but it gives me kind of the fulfillment I wanted
701
00:36:07.079 --> 00:36:10.179
from the characters. Like it kind of ends the story with,
702
00:36:10.840 --> 00:36:12.800
And then it goes off on its tangent where you're
703
00:36:12.820 --> 00:36:16.920
just like, I am not quite sure what's happening anymore.
704
00:36:16.980 --> 00:36:19.019
I think that's a very common reaction.
705
00:36:19.179 --> 00:36:19.480
Yes.
706
00:36:19.900 --> 00:36:23.079
So I'm still processing. So you're here to help me
707
00:36:23.440 --> 00:36:24.719
walk through all my feelings.
708
00:36:24.760 --> 00:36:25.519
I'll do what I can.
709
00:36:25.699 --> 00:36:26.039
Yeah.
710
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:28.559
So when was the last time you watched this?
711
00:36:28.780 --> 00:36:31.280
It would have been when we had our little anime
712
00:36:31.320 --> 00:36:32.260
club back. So 2018, 2019.
713
00:36:32.260 --> 00:36:32.980
All right.
714
00:36:33.019 --> 00:36:34.639
So it's been a few years.
715
00:36:34.659 --> 00:36:36.679
It's been a minute. I have seen it many times
716
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:39.119
prior to that, but that was the last time I
717
00:36:39.159 --> 00:36:39.400
saw it.
718
00:36:39.809 --> 00:36:42.070
This, I mean, it feels like a lot of some
719
00:36:42.110 --> 00:36:46.280
of my favorite films and anime, Akira, let's just do
720
00:36:46.340 --> 00:36:49.800
Akira since that's one of the masterpieces of this genre,
721
00:36:50.280 --> 00:36:55.190
but a similarly, not quite as dense as this movie,
722
00:36:55.329 --> 00:36:57.670
but similarly, like you kind of watch it and at
723
00:36:57.690 --> 00:36:59.349
the end of it, you come out of it thinking,
724
00:36:59.469 --> 00:37:04.110
I'm not exactly sure what happened, but, uh, you do
725
00:37:04.139 --> 00:37:07.809
have a six volume manga that you can go to
726
00:37:07.829 --> 00:37:11.070
and reference and read through that really fleshes out everything
727
00:37:11.090 --> 00:37:14.269
and was kind of the full story with this. I mean,
728
00:37:14.309 --> 00:37:18.489
this is basically all we have is what the series.
729
00:37:18.550 --> 00:37:20.570
And then this movie, well, there is a manga.
730
00:37:20.590 --> 00:37:22.269
Oh, there is a manga. Yeah.
731
00:37:22.369 --> 00:37:25.570
It just ended. I think, uh, right. I don't know
732
00:37:25.590 --> 00:37:28.300
about just it. It ended well after the series ended,
733
00:37:28.380 --> 00:37:31.239
like long, long after. And I, from what I understand it,
734
00:37:31.619 --> 00:37:35.500
goes different places so it's not necessarily congruous with what
735
00:37:35.940 --> 00:37:37.820
we've seen i've not read it so i can't speak
736
00:37:37.860 --> 00:37:38.880
authoritatively on it.
737
00:37:39.119 --> 00:37:41.699
I will also say i don't know how if i
738
00:37:41.989 --> 00:37:43.909
want to read it did otto do it.
739
00:37:44.269 --> 00:37:46.929
No i don't recall the name of of the writer
740
00:37:47.329 --> 00:37:50.469
i know it's someone who doesn't typically write manga or
741
00:37:50.630 --> 00:37:53.570
that's my understanding but and it started i think about
742
00:37:53.610 --> 00:37:56.980
a not long before the series launched so i think
743
00:37:57.389 --> 00:37:59.909
at most anime or from what I understand, a lot
744
00:37:59.949 --> 00:38:02.449
of anime, you get manga first and then it gets adapted.
745
00:38:02.969 --> 00:38:04.969
But in this case, I think the anime and manga
746
00:38:04.989 --> 00:38:10.130
were kind of contemporary or maybe the anime was prepared first. So,
747
00:38:10.469 --> 00:38:13.969
but I think for all, as far as this story goes, yes,
748
00:38:14.030 --> 00:38:15.250
this is what we have.
749
00:38:15.329 --> 00:38:19.329
Yeah. And I'm kind of of that mind where I'm like, well,
750
00:38:19.349 --> 00:38:21.769
if Anno is not involved with the manga, even if
751
00:38:21.809 --> 00:38:23.889
it fleshes out some stuff, I kind of don't really
752
00:38:23.989 --> 00:38:24.280
want it.
753
00:38:24.710 --> 00:38:27.809
To know there are the rebuild movies which i haven't seen.
754
00:38:27.929 --> 00:38:31.750
Yes right which kind of retells the story and sort
755
00:38:31.789 --> 00:38:35.300
of goes in a slightly different direction maybe more accessible
756
00:38:35.320 --> 00:38:35.639
like the.
757
00:38:35.639 --> 00:38:38.820
Ff7 remake kind of okay like a different interpretation of
758
00:38:38.860 --> 00:38:39.639
things that might.
759
00:38:39.519 --> 00:38:42.019
Be interesting but like honestly i feel like this is
760
00:38:42.059 --> 00:38:45.719
so singular in a lot of ways and the questions
761
00:38:45.820 --> 00:38:49.710
it raises for me are not necessarily questions where i'm
762
00:38:49.769 --> 00:38:53.570
like I need more. It's more of, I want to,
763
00:38:53.750 --> 00:38:56.090
you know, go down the Reddit rabbit hole and see
764
00:38:56.150 --> 00:39:02.340
what people have interpreted. Cause the seeing the end, it
765
00:39:02.420 --> 00:39:06.199
kind of like puts everything into perspective. Like in a
766
00:39:06.239 --> 00:39:08.199
lot of ways, I think my biggest hope for the
767
00:39:08.239 --> 00:39:12.739
movie was that I would feel like emotionally satisfied and
768
00:39:12.880 --> 00:39:17.969
feel like that there was some sort of conclusion to it.
769
00:39:18.739 --> 00:39:22.909
even if not everything was like kind of explained or
770
00:39:23.050 --> 00:39:26.730
wrapped up nicely. And that's basically what I got. So
771
00:39:26.769 --> 00:39:29.510
I'm very happy in that regard. And then of course,
772
00:39:29.650 --> 00:39:34.320
just kind of. of like baffled and emotionally overwhelmed and
773
00:39:34.619 --> 00:39:37.369
it feels very in line with kind of what the
774
00:39:37.409 --> 00:39:41.289
series was doing and then even feels it feels like
775
00:39:41.309 --> 00:39:45.099
it kind of satisfies it scratches the itch of like great.
776
00:39:45.159 --> 00:39:47.539
We've got some Ava's fighting some monsters.
777
00:39:47.760 --> 00:39:48.280
Awesome.
778
00:39:48.420 --> 00:39:52.420
And all it's like gory cinematic glory. That was, you know,
779
00:39:53.099 --> 00:39:55.119
from the beginning, the movie is kind of shocking in
780
00:39:55.179 --> 00:40:03.940
its content, uh, with Shinji in the opening scene, uh, being, um, very, um,
781
00:40:04.199 --> 00:40:08.719
excited by his, uh, his friend's naked body in a
782
00:40:08.760 --> 00:40:09.539
hospital bed.
783
00:40:09.559 --> 00:40:11.679
Disgusting. Yes. Disgusting.
784
00:40:11.739 --> 00:40:12.039
Yes.
785
00:40:12.360 --> 00:40:16.969
Uh, so, it was just like very like in your face, like, Oh, okay. It's, it's,
786
00:40:17.309 --> 00:40:19.429
it's a movie and we're kind of maybe some of
787
00:40:19.510 --> 00:40:23.139
the restraints we had because of the television format and
788
00:40:23.159 --> 00:40:26.699
what you could and couldn't get away with have disappeared entirely.
789
00:40:26.760 --> 00:40:30.179
So the movie is like, it's, it's completely unrestrained vision
790
00:40:30.420 --> 00:40:31.579
of whatever.
791
00:40:31.360 --> 00:40:33.000
Anna was doing.
792
00:40:33.019 --> 00:40:36.460
Well, I think it fuses kind of the different sides
793
00:40:36.820 --> 00:40:39.820
of the anime where you have the first half is
794
00:40:39.840 --> 00:40:42.199
a little more action, as you said, a little more,
795
00:40:42.690 --> 00:40:46.309
plot oriented where you see the narrative arcs kind of
796
00:40:46.349 --> 00:40:49.769
reach their peak and then the second half where you
797
00:40:49.809 --> 00:40:52.550
get into the mind trippiness and there they were directed
798
00:40:52.570 --> 00:40:56.449
by different people the first half is uh kazuya suramaki
799
00:40:56.650 --> 00:40:59.010
okay so and he was the assistant director of the
800
00:40:59.030 --> 00:41:01.869
series and then the second half is ano the series
801
00:41:01.889 --> 00:41:04.139
director and you can yeah you can tell.
802
00:41:04.139 --> 00:41:07.280
Yes so and frankly i'm okay with that too and
803
00:41:07.949 --> 00:41:10.139
i think the movie in some strange way kind of
804
00:41:10.239 --> 00:41:14.090
reconciles the two sides in a way that the end
805
00:41:14.110 --> 00:41:16.289
of the series did. Like it just like those final
806
00:41:16.329 --> 00:41:19.289
two episodes felt kind of like, okay. It felt like
807
00:41:19.309 --> 00:41:24.280
a weird aside. Like it didn't really wrap anything up.
808
00:41:24.460 --> 00:41:27.539
It presented a lot of ideas without kind of seeing
809
00:41:27.579 --> 00:41:29.559
them through to a satisfying conclusion.
810
00:41:29.699 --> 00:41:33.050
It doesn't impart, it doesn't necessarily take those ideas and
811
00:41:33.110 --> 00:41:35.289
put them into the story you've been following. It just
812
00:41:35.309 --> 00:41:37.969
sort of throws them at you to an extent.
813
00:41:38.030 --> 00:41:40.469
Yeah. Well it does. And it's, it's, not like you
814
00:41:40.530 --> 00:41:43.599
said it's not necessarily out of nowhere but it does
815
00:41:43.659 --> 00:41:47.539
feel kind of like okay but that you're not telling
816
00:41:47.559 --> 00:41:49.139
me that's it like that's kind of how I felt
817
00:41:49.179 --> 00:41:50.440
at the end of the series I'm like well that's
818
00:41:50.480 --> 00:41:53.599
not it like okay I'm like that's interesting but like
819
00:41:53.900 --> 00:41:57.099
that's not what the end of this story is and
820
00:41:57.119 --> 00:42:01.210
it's so weird that the movie again doesn't really have
821
00:42:01.250 --> 00:42:04.769
a conclusion and I think I would fully understand like
822
00:42:04.789 --> 00:42:07.309
it's like it almost raises more questions and also like
823
00:42:08.510 --> 00:42:12.590
doesn't It raises more questions, doesn't answer a lot of questions,
824
00:42:13.190 --> 00:42:16.010
but in some ways it just felt more satisfying to me.
825
00:42:16.190 --> 00:42:19.170
Maybe because it takes the.
826
00:42:19.130 --> 00:42:24.750
Time to wrap up a storyline before going into full-on cosmic, mental,
827
00:42:26.090 --> 00:42:28.809
astral plane mode.
828
00:42:28.809 --> 00:42:28.920
2001. Yes.
829
00:42:29.010 --> 00:42:31.409
Yeah, I agree.
830
00:42:31.610 --> 00:42:34.070
It's a lot more satisfying to see the story you've
831
00:42:34.090 --> 00:42:35.170
been following for 24 episodes.
832
00:42:35.210 --> 00:42:35.329
Yeah.
833
00:42:36.599 --> 00:42:39.940
Reach a general conclusion and then go into, well, what
834
00:42:39.960 --> 00:42:41.900
does this all mean? What do we take away from this?
835
00:42:41.960 --> 00:42:44.300
And it takes a lot of the themes that we've
836
00:42:44.340 --> 00:42:47.000
been following. I mentioned the hedgehog's dilemma. I think a
837
00:42:47.059 --> 00:42:50.150
big part of this movie is just reconciling what it
838
00:42:50.210 --> 00:42:53.510
means to be a human. And the fact that existing
839
00:42:54.070 --> 00:42:57.489
is going to be painful. Other humans are going to
840
00:42:57.570 --> 00:43:01.360
hurt you, but we also need other humans to survive.
841
00:43:01.440 --> 00:43:03.559
We need that kind of, we need each other.
842
00:43:03.579 --> 00:43:04.039
Yes.
843
00:43:04.260 --> 00:43:06.969
And it's not a linear process. Like I think the
844
00:43:07.070 --> 00:43:12.090
ending where Shinji, his immediate response upon seeing another person
845
00:43:12.349 --> 00:43:14.050
in the world, the only other person that he can
846
00:43:14.110 --> 00:43:17.349
see in the world, his response is to begin choking them.
847
00:43:17.409 --> 00:43:19.989
And obviously he and Asuka have that history, but it's,
848
00:43:20.230 --> 00:43:23.409
it's just sort of that hell is other people feeling,
849
00:43:23.449 --> 00:43:26.940
but then her response of just caressing him, just sort
850
00:43:26.980 --> 00:43:30.340
of embodies the dichotomy of what it means to be human.
851
00:43:30.380 --> 00:43:31.010
Yeah.
852
00:43:31.179 --> 00:43:33.110
Evangelion, at the end of the day, it kind of
853
00:43:33.170 --> 00:43:38.650
is an exploration of not only what humanity is, but
854
00:43:38.969 --> 00:43:43.670
what makes you human and that need to be loved
855
00:43:44.030 --> 00:43:46.909
and to love, but also kind of the fear of
856
00:43:47.070 --> 00:43:50.500
loving and being loved because ultimately those are things that
857
00:43:50.619 --> 00:43:54.469
will hurt you. And like you said, cause you pain.
858
00:43:54.570 --> 00:43:57.829
So the entire thing kind of is a meditation on
859
00:43:57.869 --> 00:44:01.550
that in a really powerful and effective way. Like I said,
860
00:44:01.610 --> 00:44:04.789
I think there is a tendency in the mainstream to
861
00:44:04.829 --> 00:44:09.389
kind of look at animation, not just anime, but animation
862
00:44:09.429 --> 00:44:11.670
as a whole as kind of like in kind of
863
00:44:11.710 --> 00:44:13.969
a condescending sort of way where it's like, well, it
864
00:44:14.010 --> 00:44:15.610
can't possibly have anything meaningful.
865
00:44:15.630 --> 00:44:16.329
It's for children.
866
00:44:16.349 --> 00:44:19.289
And I think Japan has always sort of led the
867
00:44:19.329 --> 00:44:24.329
way and proving the opposite. And, this film feels as
868
00:44:25.369 --> 00:44:29.469
powerful as those ideas. And in a strange way, kind
869
00:44:29.510 --> 00:44:35.019
of explores the ideas more effectively and powerfully, I think
870
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:39.059
than some live action films I've seen a lot of
871
00:44:39.119 --> 00:44:41.599
live action films I've seen, but also through the power
872
00:44:41.639 --> 00:44:46.000
of animation makes it wholly unique. Like it's like that
873
00:44:46.460 --> 00:44:48.949
it's a story that could only be told with that
874
00:44:49.050 --> 00:44:51.429
format and is kind of a really i was kind
875
00:44:51.449 --> 00:44:54.119
of so struck by just the movie itself just thinking
876
00:44:54.619 --> 00:44:58.139
like that's what the power of this particular medium is
877
00:44:58.199 --> 00:44:59.460
capable of yeah i.
878
00:44:59.460 --> 00:45:02.239
Think over the years i've heard rumors of a live
879
00:45:02.320 --> 00:45:05.130
action ava here and there please please no.
880
00:45:05.030 --> 00:45:05.389
No i.
881
00:45:06.909 --> 00:45:09.110
All the like i mean i i would hope we've
882
00:45:09.150 --> 00:45:13.260
seen so many live action adaptations of Not just animation,
883
00:45:13.280 --> 00:45:16.570
but particularly anime. I know there was a live-action Dragon
884
00:45:16.590 --> 00:45:18.849
Ball movie, which I did see, and it was terrible.
885
00:45:19.849 --> 00:45:24.030
Ghost in the Shell, they did that. Even though Avatar,
886
00:45:24.090 --> 00:45:28.250
I guess, isn't technically real anime, but Avatar The Last Airbender,
887
00:45:28.289 --> 00:45:31.570
that movie was terrible. And it's just like, I get
888
00:45:31.610 --> 00:45:37.460
the impulse, but also it's so necessary to see it.
889
00:45:38.380 --> 00:45:41.559
the way it's intended and like the limits of an
890
00:45:41.619 --> 00:45:46.860
imagination really it's like well what it's only limited by
891
00:45:46.940 --> 00:45:50.880
what you can and can't draw in that way um
892
00:45:51.199 --> 00:45:56.849
i just it it's a it's a very affecting very
893
00:45:56.889 --> 00:46:00.469
affecting movie and i'm still like trying to walk my
894
00:46:00.530 --> 00:46:02.809
way through it and also just trying to walk my
895
00:46:02.869 --> 00:46:08.010
way through like what ultimately is what did everything kind
896
00:46:08.110 --> 00:46:11.500
of mean. And I'm curious, you've sat within this world
897
00:46:11.539 --> 00:46:14.480
for a little while, just, just a tad bit longer
898
00:46:14.519 --> 00:46:20.639
than I have. Um, but I, uh, there is kind
899
00:46:20.719 --> 00:46:26.690
of this idea of, um, I don't know, like there's
900
00:46:26.730 --> 00:46:29.010
a lot of stuff about like man creating God or
901
00:46:29.050 --> 00:46:32.650
wanting to become God. And I don't know if like,
902
00:46:33.170 --> 00:46:36.130
I don't know what the Ava's are, but basically they
903
00:46:36.489 --> 00:46:40.809
used Lilith or Adam as, Do I even want to
904
00:46:40.849 --> 00:46:42.710
try to understand this? I'm saying it out loud.
905
00:46:42.750 --> 00:46:44.409
I'm like, I don't even know if I care.
906
00:46:44.489 --> 00:46:48.440
This is what I was mentioning in the previous segment.
907
00:46:48.579 --> 00:46:50.960
This is the kind of stuff I was immediately interested
908
00:46:51.000 --> 00:46:52.679
in when I was younger, where it's like, okay, let
909
00:46:52.719 --> 00:46:56.480
me understand what Adam and Lilith are. Let me understand
910
00:46:56.519 --> 00:47:00.369
what the Avas are. But as I get older, that
911
00:47:00.409 --> 00:47:03.630
becomes far less interesting than just meditating, as you said,
912
00:47:03.710 --> 00:47:06.489
on what it means to be human, which I think
913
00:47:06.530 --> 00:47:09.679
is what the movies and the series are. is really about.
914
00:47:09.960 --> 00:47:13.400
And these things have been explained or at least theorized
915
00:47:13.579 --> 00:47:18.340
on what it all means. You have Adam and Lilith
916
00:47:18.440 --> 00:47:22.980
as ancient aliens. You have the Evas as sort of
917
00:47:24.099 --> 00:47:28.639
encapsulations of the different pilots' mothers. So we saw Asuka
918
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:33.329
realize that her mother was within the Eva Shinji's that
919
00:47:33.349 --> 00:47:35.239
I don't know. I can't remember exactly when in the
920
00:47:35.280 --> 00:47:37.480
series that's basically spelled out, but I think we knew,
921
00:47:37.619 --> 00:47:38.440
I don't know if it's.
922
00:47:38.340 --> 00:47:41.460
Ever explicitly spelled out or maybe it is. And I
923
00:47:41.500 --> 00:47:44.369
missed it, but, uh, To your point, there's a lot
924
00:47:44.389 --> 00:47:47.309
of stuff about mothers, the relationships. We have the need
925
00:47:47.369 --> 00:47:49.570
to be kind of cuddled and loved.
926
00:47:49.610 --> 00:47:52.750
Yeah, we see Asuka in the lake as though she's
927
00:47:52.789 --> 00:47:56.199
in the womb before she's kind of reborn to fight
928
00:47:56.280 --> 00:47:59.920
the mass-produced Evas that we see, the weird lipstick monsters.
929
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:00.519
Yes.
930
00:48:01.639 --> 00:48:02.440
I love it.
931
00:48:02.619 --> 00:48:03.079
Wonderful.
932
00:48:03.239 --> 00:48:06.239
And... And then, of course, with Shinji, you have the
933
00:48:06.360 --> 00:48:10.380
Oedipal side of it where he is within his mother
934
00:48:10.639 --> 00:48:13.840
and is in constant conflict with his father, who is
935
00:48:14.059 --> 00:48:17.340
essentially a dark mirror of what Shinji could be, just
936
00:48:17.400 --> 00:48:25.050
rejecting humanity whole cloth and just deciding in a kind
937
00:48:25.239 --> 00:48:27.510
of fascistic way, like, I'm going to do this to
938
00:48:27.590 --> 00:48:30.309
humanity so that I can be together with the woman
939
00:48:31.070 --> 00:48:31.510
I love.
940
00:48:31.690 --> 00:48:31.969
Right.
941
00:48:32.530 --> 00:48:37.510
Only to have the... his wife reject him and ultimately
942
00:48:37.590 --> 00:48:39.690
face a much more grisly faith than most of the
943
00:48:39.730 --> 00:48:40.909
people who turn into Tang.
944
00:48:41.090 --> 00:48:41.469
Yes.
945
00:48:41.630 --> 00:48:41.949
Yeah.
946
00:48:43.889 --> 00:48:44.710
Yeah.
947
00:48:45.170 --> 00:48:49.349
Lots of stuff in this movie is just kind of like, Oh, okay.
948
00:48:49.750 --> 00:48:53.539
Like that's happening. Like people exploding into Tang was extraordinary.
949
00:48:53.760 --> 00:48:55.960
And like, again, I was just kind of along for
950
00:48:55.980 --> 00:48:58.719
the ride and I don't know that I want to
951
00:48:58.960 --> 00:49:01.940
understand it fully, but I think to your point, there's
952
00:49:01.960 --> 00:49:05.880
this really interesting idea of like, is it better for
953
00:49:06.119 --> 00:49:09.599
everyone to be like combined into a single mass that
954
00:49:09.719 --> 00:49:12.059
is all feeling and thinking the same way?
955
00:49:12.199 --> 00:49:13.539
Or is it better to.
956
00:49:13.360 --> 00:49:17.530
Like, and I guess the idea, the quote unquote noble
957
00:49:17.630 --> 00:49:20.349
idea is like, there's nothing that will separate us. us
958
00:49:20.409 --> 00:49:22.889
anymore we will all be one and it'll be glorious
959
00:49:23.010 --> 00:49:28.059
and we'll finally achieve what the greatness that we're capable
960
00:49:28.139 --> 00:49:33.679
of but prevented from being because we're all individually cut
961
00:49:33.739 --> 00:49:35.900
off from each other we can't we can't really know
962
00:49:35.960 --> 00:49:39.389
each other because we're not all combined in this single
963
00:49:39.500 --> 00:49:44.019
entity and ultimately what what shinji realizes is like oh
964
00:49:44.059 --> 00:49:46.599
yeah i don't i thought i wanted that but i
965
00:49:46.639 --> 00:49:49.800
don't actually want that i want humanity and all its
966
00:49:49.860 --> 00:49:52.360
flaws and everything like that and then the movie kind
967
00:49:52.400 --> 00:49:57.579
of doesn't really answer the question of it everything is
968
00:49:57.639 --> 00:50:03.449
kind of destroyed and humanity is kind of obliterated but
969
00:50:03.469 --> 00:50:06.690
then also at the end of film it's him and
970
00:50:06.869 --> 00:50:12.030
oscar they're they're together and so the question i have
971
00:50:12.110 --> 00:50:17.070
is like oh so did he did shinji succeed and
972
00:50:17.250 --> 00:50:20.239
like he had that realization and understanding of like i'm
973
00:50:20.280 --> 00:50:23.280
willing to take the pain as long as i'm not
974
00:50:23.400 --> 00:50:25.699
alone it's like so are they at the end of
975
00:50:25.820 --> 00:50:29.300
oblivion just at least they have each other like are
976
00:50:29.340 --> 00:50:31.920
they just start of humanity like as are they the
977
00:50:31.980 --> 00:50:34.019
new adam and eve basically.
978
00:50:33.460 --> 00:50:36.340
With with the biblical imagery yes yes adam and eve
979
00:50:36.400 --> 00:50:40.510
is there i think there's a common reading and obviously
980
00:50:40.530 --> 00:50:43.769
there's many ways to read this this very open-ended conclusion
981
00:50:43.849 --> 00:50:47.829
but i think the the common the theory i subscribe
982
00:50:47.869 --> 00:50:52.170
to is ultimately shinji rejected that for himself and that
983
00:50:52.309 --> 00:50:57.710
everyone within the the the egg of Lillis egg can
984
00:50:57.849 --> 00:51:01.929
decide that for themselves as well. Anyone who Ray says
985
00:51:02.010 --> 00:51:05.349
something to the effect of like, you know, don't worry,
986
00:51:05.389 --> 00:51:06.590
you can always come back.
987
00:51:07.150 --> 00:51:07.670
Right.
988
00:51:07.750 --> 00:51:10.929
So I think, I think that's true of anyone in a,
989
00:51:11.070 --> 00:51:13.090
in a plot sense. I think that's true of anyone
990
00:51:13.130 --> 00:51:15.780
who wants to escape the LCL and become human again,
991
00:51:15.820 --> 00:51:18.599
like they have that power. So I believe Oscar also
992
00:51:18.659 --> 00:51:23.639
chose a life of, of, being separate from the greater
993
00:51:23.679 --> 00:51:26.719
whole life, ultimately a life of pain. That's what everyone,
994
00:51:26.739 --> 00:51:31.030
you know, Gendo, the, the people working for Sele, the
995
00:51:31.070 --> 00:51:34.670
like shadow organization, they're, they're trying to escape their pain.
996
00:51:35.090 --> 00:51:37.230
And this is how they've chosen to do that because
997
00:51:37.250 --> 00:51:41.239
they see it as man's natural state when really it's anything,
998
00:51:41.380 --> 00:51:44.380
but we, we have to deal with pain. Yes.
999
00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:45.039
Yeah.
1000
00:51:45.179 --> 00:51:46.019
To truly be human.
1001
00:51:46.139 --> 00:51:46.360
Right.
1002
00:51:46.460 --> 00:51:47.000
Exactly.
1003
00:51:47.119 --> 00:51:49.750
So I love that. And I love the exploration of it.
1004
00:51:49.760 --> 00:51:51.909
And I love that, you know, the series kind of,
1005
00:51:54.230 --> 00:51:56.730
it'll be really interesting to go back and watch the
1006
00:51:56.769 --> 00:52:00.239
whole series again, knowing kind of where it's ending up.
1007
00:52:00.289 --> 00:52:03.530
I think I'll appreciate a lot of it more than
1008
00:52:03.570 --> 00:52:07.789
I did. I think I, there's not anything really that
1009
00:52:07.869 --> 00:52:10.409
I didn't enjoy about the series, but I think maybe
1010
00:52:10.469 --> 00:52:13.510
the more frivolous moments are easier to take for granted
1011
00:52:13.679 --> 00:52:16.219
until you get to the end and realize just how.
1012
00:52:16.119 --> 00:52:19.500
Like sad and devastating everything is.
1013
00:52:20.090 --> 00:52:22.489
And so going back and like some of the, the
1014
00:52:23.210 --> 00:52:28.289
quote unquote romantic tender moments between Asuka and Shinji, I
1015
00:52:28.309 --> 00:52:31.300
think will hit differently. Some of the stuff were like,
1016
00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:34.500
not that it wasn't affecting before, but you know, in the,
1017
00:52:34.659 --> 00:52:37.860
the series, they like are sleeping in separate rooms and
1018
00:52:37.900 --> 00:52:42.800
then she kind of sleepwalks into his bed. And right
1019
00:52:42.820 --> 00:52:45.780
before she, right before he kisses her, she says, mom
1020
00:52:46.000 --> 00:52:46.619
or mama.
1021
00:52:47.059 --> 00:52:47.260
Yeah.
1022
00:52:47.360 --> 00:52:50.550
And it's just this very, kind of sad moment, but
1023
00:52:50.630 --> 00:52:52.650
things like that, going back and watching it in the
1024
00:52:52.690 --> 00:52:55.670
context of where everything ends up is going to be very, very.
1025
00:52:56.630 --> 00:52:56.869
Yeah.
1026
00:52:56.909 --> 00:53:01.199
And it's interesting to see how Shinji develops over time too.
1027
00:53:01.320 --> 00:53:02.820
I remember.
1028
00:53:03.820 --> 00:53:06.179
When I was in high school, watching this, a common
1029
00:53:06.239 --> 00:53:09.420
take among my friends and myself to an extent with
1030
00:53:09.440 --> 00:53:12.000
this is, was that Shinji was very annoying. It was
1031
00:53:12.039 --> 00:53:15.329
very difficult to deal with Shinji, his constant back and forth,
1032
00:53:15.889 --> 00:53:19.039
his constant desire to run away. Because I think there's
1033
00:53:19.099 --> 00:53:23.889
a tendency when you're young to assume, you know, if
1034
00:53:24.010 --> 00:53:26.650
I was isekai-ed into an anime, we didn't know that
1035
00:53:26.690 --> 00:53:28.889
term at the time, but if I was isekai-ed.
1036
00:53:28.489 --> 00:53:29.190
Into an anime.
1037
00:53:29.210 --> 00:53:30.130
I still don't know that term.
1038
00:53:30.150 --> 00:53:33.369
It's like a modern anime trope where you're sucked into
1039
00:53:33.409 --> 00:53:36.380
another world. So if I was brought into an anime world, oh, well,
1040
00:53:36.519 --> 00:53:39.440
I would be the big hero. I would be Luke Skywalker.
1041
00:53:39.480 --> 00:53:43.280
I would follow the hero's journey. When really it's like, no,
1042
00:53:43.420 --> 00:53:47.619
you'd probably be Angel Chow on day one. So you
1043
00:53:47.659 --> 00:53:50.239
just have to, you have to accept that Shinji is
1044
00:53:50.300 --> 00:53:54.079
a human in all his frailty that he's, he's going to,
1045
00:53:54.980 --> 00:53:58.679
he's going to stumble in, in dealing with depression. Like
1046
00:53:58.739 --> 00:54:01.230
I mentioned, it's not linear. He's still going to struggle
1047
00:54:01.269 --> 00:54:04.909
with that even in this new reality he's in, but he's,
1048
00:54:05.670 --> 00:54:08.610
you'd like to think he's on the road to healing.
1049
00:54:08.650 --> 00:54:10.849
And I also think we, back in the day I
1050
00:54:10.889 --> 00:54:14.090
watched it dubbed. So, and that was what I was
1051
00:54:14.130 --> 00:54:16.960
familiar with. And I think, The voice actors in the
1052
00:54:17.019 --> 00:54:19.059
original dub, I haven't heard the Netflix dub. I know
1053
00:54:19.099 --> 00:54:22.820
it's different. But in the original dub, the voice actors
1054
00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:24.400
do a good job, but I think it's a lot
1055
00:54:24.699 --> 00:54:28.940
harder to think of Shinji as a child, at least
1056
00:54:28.960 --> 00:54:32.139
for me. I think the Japanese voice actress, it really
1057
00:54:32.179 --> 00:54:36.010
conveys that this is a literal child we're dealing with
1058
00:54:36.190 --> 00:54:38.710
in a situation like this. So I think it's a
1059
00:54:38.730 --> 00:54:42.849
lot easier to relate to and forgive shinji for all
1060
00:54:42.869 --> 00:54:44.210
of his frailties.
1061
00:54:43.750 --> 00:54:46.710
Yeah and i remember talking about that with you guys
1062
00:54:46.889 --> 00:54:48.570
uh when the group we were doing our group watch
1063
00:54:48.590 --> 00:54:51.449
of the show where um somebody mentioned they'd only seen
1064
00:54:51.489 --> 00:54:53.610
the dub it might have been your friend jason um
1065
00:54:53.800 --> 00:54:56.260
you know he was like you know what like i
1066
00:54:56.380 --> 00:54:59.159
always thought shinji was kind of annoying but now like
1067
00:54:59.480 --> 00:55:02.239
hearing it in its original language and the performance it
1068
00:55:02.820 --> 00:55:06.159
kind of emphasizes just how much how young he is
1069
00:55:06.760 --> 00:55:10.679
And so having only seen the sub version, the Japanese version,
1070
00:55:10.699 --> 00:55:15.809
I understood watching it like, oh yeah, Shinji's a character
1071
00:55:15.849 --> 00:55:18.769
that I think some people initially complained about or were
1072
00:55:18.809 --> 00:55:20.809
annoyed with. Like, God, can he just shut up? He's
1073
00:55:20.829 --> 00:55:26.199
so obnoxious. Kind of understand that because this movie's, or
1074
00:55:26.219 --> 00:55:28.280
not the movie, the whole story is sort of the
1075
00:55:28.420 --> 00:55:31.460
anti-hero's journey in a way where it's like Luke Skywalker
1076
00:55:31.500 --> 00:55:33.679
is kind of the noble idea of like, yes, he's
1077
00:55:33.719 --> 00:55:36.730
going to fight and he's going to, take up the
1078
00:55:36.769 --> 00:55:38.849
mantle and he's going to be the hero but like
1079
00:55:38.889 --> 00:55:40.889
what happens when you're like a 12 year old and
1080
00:55:40.949 --> 00:55:44.739
you're being thrown into circumstances that are deeply upsetting and
1081
00:55:44.820 --> 00:55:52.250
mentally disturbing and being expected to save the entire planet
1082
00:55:52.449 --> 00:55:55.070
humanity all of that like what would that do to
1083
00:55:55.130 --> 00:55:58.889
you And the story kind of, I think to me,
1084
00:55:59.250 --> 00:56:00.949
it goes beyond that. Like, I think we are kind
1085
00:56:00.989 --> 00:56:04.409
of examining Shinji's psyche, but I think we're really examining
1086
00:56:04.469 --> 00:56:09.400
the creator's psyche. Like it feels more like a meta
1087
00:56:09.460 --> 00:56:12.360
commentary on what he's going through and how he perceives
1088
00:56:12.460 --> 00:56:17.219
what Evangelion is and what it means. There's a really
1089
00:56:17.679 --> 00:56:19.739
interesting point near the end of the movie where it
1090
00:56:20.219 --> 00:56:22.880
kind of shifts into live action. And we're seeing this
1091
00:56:22.940 --> 00:56:27.380
like theater of, I'm guessing fans of the franchise.
1092
00:56:28.019 --> 00:56:28.780
I don't know.
1093
00:56:28.800 --> 00:56:32.039
It felt like a moment where it's like, are we
1094
00:56:32.179 --> 00:56:38.719
commenting on like what the, what fans have kind of demanded?
1095
00:56:38.789 --> 00:56:41.329
Like, this is what you wanted. Is this what you wanted?
1096
00:56:41.389 --> 00:56:42.849
Like the end of Evangelion?
1097
00:56:42.869 --> 00:56:43.030
Yeah.
1098
00:56:43.070 --> 00:56:45.969
And I, I know, I think has commented on like
1099
00:56:46.449 --> 00:56:49.730
a general distaste for what's come to be known as
1100
00:56:49.789 --> 00:56:52.760
Otaku culture. Like he's, I think he was a little
1101
00:56:52.800 --> 00:56:57.909
desensitized with that. going into Evangelion and then like the
1102
00:56:57.949 --> 00:57:00.510
name of the movie, just being the end of Evangelion,
1103
00:57:00.550 --> 00:57:02.829
I think was a very definitive statement. Like this is
1104
00:57:02.949 --> 00:57:05.679
what I'm, this is what I'm closing with. Like this
1105
00:57:05.760 --> 00:57:09.659
is the end of this. Um, and yet you're 100%
1106
00:57:09.659 --> 00:57:12.420
right that it's him much like the series ending. It's
1107
00:57:12.460 --> 00:57:16.380
him kind of working out, uh, his own, his own feelings,
1108
00:57:16.420 --> 00:57:21.170
his own depression. Um, there's, there's moments that in the movie, there's, um,
1109
00:57:21.929 --> 00:57:24.730
a sequence where it flashes through a bunch of kind
1110
00:57:24.750 --> 00:57:29.329
of disturbing drawings. Those were actually like drawn by children
1111
00:57:30.250 --> 00:57:34.670
in therapy, like working through in their, in their childish way,
1112
00:57:34.730 --> 00:57:39.320
like their own feelings and traumas. And then there's also a,
1113
00:57:39.929 --> 00:57:42.869
a scene that's cutting through a bunch of written letters
1114
00:57:42.929 --> 00:57:47.030
there in a Japanese script. And the rumor that we
1115
00:57:47.090 --> 00:57:50.369
always believed growing up was that those were the actual
1116
00:57:50.909 --> 00:57:55.940
threats that the studio received for fans distaste for the ending.
1117
00:57:56.300 --> 00:57:59.280
From what I understand now, it's actually, they, they weren't
1118
00:57:59.360 --> 00:58:03.679
legally able to do that. So they did recreations of letters,
1119
00:58:03.860 --> 00:58:06.659
many of which I think were actually in praise of
1120
00:58:06.699 --> 00:58:09.099
the show, but maybe a couple of threats in there
1121
00:58:09.139 --> 00:58:14.230
as well. So it's literal, literal, trauma work going on
1122
00:58:14.369 --> 00:58:15.650
on the screen before us.
1123
00:58:15.889 --> 00:58:18.829
Right and i there's a point where as we're watching
1124
00:58:18.849 --> 00:58:21.820
through the live action like shinji starts narrating and starts
1125
00:58:21.880 --> 00:58:24.300
talking about like oh i created this whole thing to
1126
00:58:25.059 --> 00:58:28.679
work through my feelings and my emotions or something i'm
1127
00:58:28.880 --> 00:58:31.440
i'm really badly butchering what was actually said in the
1128
00:58:31.480 --> 00:58:36.039
movie but like it feels like there's there isn't much
1129
00:58:36.079 --> 00:58:39.039
of a line between creator and creation at that point
1130
00:58:39.159 --> 00:58:42.050
and then the whole thing becomes super fascinating because the
1131
00:58:42.110 --> 00:58:45.949
religious imagery and the destruction of the planet and humanity,
1132
00:58:45.989 --> 00:58:49.449
but also the rebirth and the creation of something. So
1133
00:58:49.489 --> 00:58:52.699
it just becomes like a commentary upon a commentary, like
1134
00:58:52.840 --> 00:58:54.840
constantly in a circle, never stopping.
1135
00:58:54.980 --> 00:58:57.159
You can see why I was at the, at the library,
1136
00:58:57.219 --> 00:59:00.380
Googling Kabbalah and like the tree of life. And what
1137
00:59:00.400 --> 00:59:03.139
does it all mean? And, and Oh, the, the pools where,
1138
00:59:03.139 --> 00:59:06.269
where Ray is hanging out, like, Oh, what, what sphere
1139
00:59:06.269 --> 00:59:08.639
is she in? What's, what's separate is she? And what
1140
00:59:08.659 --> 00:59:11.199
does that mean? Right. And there's, you can plumb that
1141
00:59:11.260 --> 00:59:15.119
for any kind of meaning. Uh, but I just, yeah, that's,
1142
00:59:15.219 --> 00:59:18.679
that's a level that I don't really engage this movie
1143
00:59:18.760 --> 00:59:22.090
on anymore, but I'm still, it's still infinitely interesting just
1144
00:59:22.110 --> 00:59:24.889
to see that imagery. Like you see in, even in
1145
00:59:24.929 --> 00:59:27.710
the opening of the anime during the opening theme, you
1146
00:59:27.750 --> 00:59:30.699
see the tree of life every episode. Yeah. So there's that.
1147
00:59:30.739 --> 00:59:33.960
You see, I think it's a female figure. I think
1148
00:59:34.000 --> 00:59:36.699
it's Misato. She's sort of like straight, but with her
1149
00:59:36.800 --> 00:59:37.699
neck arched back.
1150
00:59:37.860 --> 00:59:38.059
Right.
1151
00:59:38.159 --> 00:59:41.739
And multiple characters in this movie do that pose.
1152
00:59:41.780 --> 00:59:42.099
Yes.
1153
00:59:42.199 --> 00:59:45.750
The ghostly Rey does it. Ava One does it when
1154
00:59:45.789 --> 00:59:48.710
the spear of Longinus is at its neck. Yeah. So
1155
00:59:48.730 --> 00:59:51.289
you've got a lot of evocative things that you can
1156
00:59:51.329 --> 00:59:53.369
plumb a lot of meaning from if that's what you're into.
1157
00:59:53.449 --> 00:59:56.550
And I definitely understand why people might want to do that.
1158
00:59:56.769 --> 00:59:57.030
Yeah.
1159
00:59:57.110 --> 01:00:01.880
And I love, I love reading like, I do enjoy,
1160
01:00:01.929 --> 01:00:04.900
to a certain extent, fans who are engaging with the
1161
01:00:04.960 --> 01:00:07.800
material and trying to understand what does this mean and
1162
01:00:07.840 --> 01:00:10.860
what is this saying about that? And at the same time,
1163
01:00:11.099 --> 01:00:15.139
as a David Lynch fan too, I love hearing ideas
1164
01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:20.179
about what it means. I less, less than that. I
1165
01:00:20.219 --> 01:00:23.519
don't necessarily love having like concrete, let me spell it
1166
01:00:23.599 --> 01:00:25.980
out for you. Here's what it's supposed to be.
1167
01:00:26.079 --> 01:00:28.260
I think that's a great parallel. Cause I'm, I will
1168
01:00:28.300 --> 01:00:30.900
always love Mulholland drive. And I think it's very fun to,
1169
01:00:30.980 --> 01:00:32.300
I love a lot of Lynch, but I think about
1170
01:00:32.320 --> 01:00:35.889
Mulholland drive first and foremost. And I, it's, it will
1171
01:00:35.929 --> 01:00:39.969
always be interesting to plumb that movie for its meaning
1172
01:00:40.050 --> 01:00:41.650
and try to figure out what it all means. But
1173
01:00:41.690 --> 01:00:44.900
it's also just, equally fulfilling to appreciate it on an
1174
01:00:44.960 --> 01:00:47.039
aesthetic level. So this movie works the same way.
1175
01:00:47.119 --> 01:00:47.860
Yes, I agree.
1176
01:00:47.880 --> 01:00:50.559
I think, uh, I, I almost feel like the less
1177
01:00:50.599 --> 01:00:53.170
I understand it, the better it is like, but I,
1178
01:00:53.559 --> 01:00:56.860
but I love, um, there's an emotional through line that
1179
01:00:57.000 --> 01:01:02.860
makes it, uh, very, very, um, engaging. Like it's not,
1180
01:01:03.409 --> 01:01:05.260
I felt like the last two episodes of the series
1181
01:01:05.280 --> 01:01:07.989
were kind of cold in the way they approached like
1182
01:01:08.010 --> 01:01:10.670
the subject. Like it was almost like a clinical, uh, uh,
1183
01:01:12.030 --> 01:01:14.510
it felt like a therapist sort of walking me through like, well,
1184
01:01:14.550 --> 01:01:16.250
you feel this way because da, da, da, da, da.
1185
01:01:16.289 --> 01:01:18.010
And this movie is kind of just like, now here
1186
01:01:18.030 --> 01:01:19.590
it is. Let me envelop you in it.
1187
01:01:19.610 --> 01:01:22.090
The TV ending is definitely at a room at a distance.
1188
01:01:22.130 --> 01:01:25.449
You're kind of overlooking this. Whereas the movie you're fully engaged. Yeah.
1189
01:01:25.469 --> 01:01:27.969
For better and for worse, you're kind of like, you're like,
1190
01:01:28.030 --> 01:01:31.050
you were in it like emotionally and mentally.
1191
01:01:31.070 --> 01:01:34.360
You're kind of very, very, uh, you were in the weeds.
1192
01:01:34.510 --> 01:01:36.719
Let's say in the soup. No, what I've been thinking
1193
01:01:36.760 --> 01:01:38.739
about a lot too, with this viewing was just how,
1194
01:01:39.400 --> 01:01:42.780
The movie is very fascinated or very focused on fluids.
1195
01:01:43.360 --> 01:01:47.659
You see Shinji seen at the beginning infamously. You see
1196
01:01:48.000 --> 01:01:52.199
the blood throughout the storming of nerve. You see all
1197
01:01:52.219 --> 01:01:56.360
the stuff with the gooey body of Lilith dripping off
1198
01:01:56.469 --> 01:02:01.289
the cross. Even just the fleshy way that Rey's arm
1199
01:02:01.369 --> 01:02:05.929
falls off. And then, of course, the LCL fluid all
1200
01:02:05.949 --> 01:02:08.320
throughout the movie as well. And it just really gets to...
1201
01:02:09.239 --> 01:02:12.179
how being a human is kind of gross yeah and
1202
01:02:12.199 --> 01:02:14.400
that's like that also is part.
1203
01:02:14.260 --> 01:02:16.139
Of the it was like is it like the primordial
1204
01:02:16.239 --> 01:02:18.900
soup like the idea of like we're not much more
1205
01:02:19.000 --> 01:02:22.429
than like liquid water seems to be like it's very
1206
01:02:22.530 --> 01:02:24.179
like you see the ocean a lot and lots of
1207
01:02:24.239 --> 01:02:26.369
water and people in bodies.
1208
01:02:26.130 --> 01:02:29.489
Of water so with oska's final line just being disgusting
1209
01:02:29.570 --> 01:02:32.210
yeah it's like that it's it's in it's partly a
1210
01:02:32.250 --> 01:02:34.969
response to what shinji did at the beginning it's almost
1211
01:02:35.010 --> 01:02:38.199
like she's responding to that yes and then it's also
1212
01:02:38.320 --> 01:02:41.119
just commenting on the condition of being human.
1213
01:02:41.340 --> 01:02:44.309
Yeah. There's a lot of weird, gross body or stuff.
1214
01:02:44.349 --> 01:02:47.469
And there's lots of like stigmatas and eyeballs popping out
1215
01:02:47.530 --> 01:02:51.190
of stigmatas and bodies being torn apart and entrails and
1216
01:02:51.750 --> 01:02:55.730
violence that like, you know, the show is like mildly violent,
1217
01:02:55.809 --> 01:02:58.949
but not as graphic as the movie is. So there's
1218
01:02:59.010 --> 01:03:02.809
really a full embracing of like, yeah, here's humanity and
1219
01:03:03.010 --> 01:03:06.269
all its glory. It's gory glory with all of the
1220
01:03:06.329 --> 01:03:10.650
pieces and all of the innards and outards and really
1221
01:03:10.989 --> 01:03:13.239
like then just sort of saying at the end of
1222
01:03:13.280 --> 01:03:16.920
the day, like exploring, does any of this, like, does
1223
01:03:17.000 --> 01:03:20.460
this matter? Like, does the matter make the person?
1224
01:03:21.079 --> 01:03:22.679
It's just so interesting.
1225
01:03:22.760 --> 01:03:26.400
So fascinating. And then like, On a whole other level,
1226
01:03:26.420 --> 01:03:29.860
just speaking to the amount of acclaim, just like, again,
1227
01:03:29.920 --> 01:03:32.840
going back to Letterboxd and this film ranking so highly,
1228
01:03:32.860 --> 01:03:39.090
the movie, I would never recommend the film on its
1229
01:03:39.199 --> 01:03:43.570
own to anybody, obviously. It would be the same to
1230
01:03:43.590 --> 01:03:45.949
me as recommending like, oh yeah, you should only watch
1231
01:03:46.250 --> 01:03:48.210
The Return of the King or you should only watch
1232
01:03:48.809 --> 01:03:51.389
Return of the Jedi or like the final Harry Potter movie.
1233
01:03:51.710 --> 01:03:53.429
This felt, it reminded me a lot of the final
1234
01:03:53.469 --> 01:03:56.360
Harry Potter movie and partly because that was split into
1235
01:03:56.389 --> 01:03:56.940
two parts.
1236
01:03:57.440 --> 01:03:57.920
You kind of.
1237
01:03:57.900 --> 01:04:00.679
Dive into the very last film, really into the midst
1238
01:04:00.719 --> 01:04:02.019
of all the action and stuff.
1239
01:04:02.059 --> 01:04:03.539
And this film kind of felt like that.
1240
01:04:05.199 --> 01:04:09.239
But like, it doesn't, it's not something I would recommend
1241
01:04:09.260 --> 01:04:12.360
on its own terms at all. Like it's like, it's
1242
01:04:12.420 --> 01:04:16.099
part of the whole story. Like it works beautifully. And
1243
01:04:16.239 --> 01:04:20.300
I'm curious how it would work for somebody who doesn't
1244
01:04:20.340 --> 01:04:23.690
have any insight into this franchise at all like i
1245
01:04:23.730 --> 01:04:25.449
was kind of at the start of it trying to
1246
01:04:25.489 --> 01:04:28.510
think like how would i be reacting to this if
1247
01:04:28.530 --> 01:04:32.639
i didn't know anything about this series like i think
1248
01:04:32.679 --> 01:04:35.099
it would still be really fascinating but at the same
1249
01:04:35.139 --> 01:04:38.820
time i'm like i i feel like you're robbing yourself
1250
01:04:38.949 --> 01:04:42.019
of an experience to only watch the film and not
1251
01:04:42.500 --> 01:04:45.360
go back and watch the series too I agree but
1252
01:04:45.840 --> 01:04:49.239
is there anything from this later viewing that other than
1253
01:04:49.280 --> 01:04:51.320
like kind of the fluids and stuff that you like
1254
01:04:51.800 --> 01:04:57.079
through the years as your relationship with whether it's Shinji
1255
01:04:57.139 --> 01:05:00.079
or just the story as a whole like what have
1256
01:05:00.139 --> 01:05:03.300
you kind of come to learn about the movie learn
1257
01:05:03.340 --> 01:05:06.050
about yourself like what do you feel in terms of
1258
01:05:06.280 --> 01:05:12.030
how this movie fits into the grander scheme of how
1259
01:05:12.070 --> 01:05:15.929
you feel about storytelling in general. That's not that big
1260
01:05:15.949 --> 01:05:16.530
of a question.
1261
01:05:16.670 --> 01:05:18.429
Oh, of course. No, I think I've gotten into the
1262
01:05:18.469 --> 01:05:20.489
meat of that just with me, the way it makes
1263
01:05:20.530 --> 01:05:23.389
me feel about being what it, or what it says
1264
01:05:23.489 --> 01:05:25.820
to me about being human, I think is the big
1265
01:05:26.300 --> 01:05:28.719
evolution for me, as opposed to being more focused on
1266
01:05:28.739 --> 01:05:33.039
the minutia of the Ava world. I'm more focused on
1267
01:05:33.219 --> 01:05:37.500
the themes. I like to think that there's a lot
1268
01:05:37.539 --> 01:05:41.670
of the movie you can take and Um, both literal
1269
01:05:41.909 --> 01:05:45.230
and metaphorical, like it works on multiple levels. I think
1270
01:05:45.650 --> 01:05:48.929
there's a, it's like a grant Morrison comic. I feel
1271
01:05:48.949 --> 01:05:52.449
like you there's, you can take things both ways. Um,
1272
01:05:53.110 --> 01:05:55.920
my relation to the characters has definitely changed. I think
1273
01:05:56.000 --> 01:05:59.610
as a, as an edgy teenager. it was easier to
1274
01:05:59.690 --> 01:06:03.360
associate with Gendo in a way that he was like, oh,
1275
01:06:03.400 --> 01:06:07.320
he's a tragic figure. He wants to be reunited with
1276
01:06:07.360 --> 01:06:10.500
his lost love. But then as I get older, you
1277
01:06:10.539 --> 01:06:15.679
realize just how terrible of a person he is. And
1278
01:06:15.739 --> 01:06:19.619
just like how he's really just tormenting everyone around him
1279
01:06:19.699 --> 01:06:24.170
for a very selfish goal. And a goal that ultimately
1280
01:06:24.250 --> 01:06:27.139
I don't think his wife would approve of the person
1281
01:06:27.159 --> 01:06:28.900
who's making all these sacrifices for.
1282
01:06:29.000 --> 01:06:31.360
And I think with Ray's reaction to him, kind of,
1283
01:06:31.900 --> 01:06:34.539
it does spell it out. Like it kind of is like, Nope,
1284
01:06:35.000 --> 01:06:35.500
not a fan.
1285
01:06:35.940 --> 01:06:36.280
Yeah.
1286
01:06:36.380 --> 01:06:36.860
Peace out.
1287
01:06:37.059 --> 01:06:40.260
And so he's ultimate, like the ultimate rejection for him
1288
01:06:40.380 --> 01:06:46.349
is having this clone slash recreation of his wife reject him.
1289
01:06:46.409 --> 01:06:49.510
So it's, it's really, really interesting, but it's also, I
1290
01:06:49.550 --> 01:06:53.639
think speaking to the philosophy of the film, which is if,
1291
01:06:54.489 --> 01:06:57.230
his whole goal is singular and I'm going to create
1292
01:06:57.309 --> 01:07:00.300
all this thing to ensure like we can all be
1293
01:07:00.579 --> 01:07:04.780
united and as close as humanly possible because he's, he
1294
01:07:04.880 --> 01:07:09.760
doesn't understand what's beautiful about the individual. Like it's to him,
1295
01:07:09.820 --> 01:07:13.960
it's something that needs to be under his control. It,
1296
01:07:14.820 --> 01:07:16.739
to me, that kind of feeds into the idea that
1297
01:07:16.960 --> 01:07:19.679
the ending is about Shinji kind of rejecting that.
1298
01:07:19.800 --> 01:07:23.000
And like the, even.
1299
01:07:22.860 --> 01:07:25.610
Though it's not clear what's real and what's not like
1300
01:07:25.679 --> 01:07:30.389
there being some sort of physical reality to the ending.
1301
01:07:30.449 --> 01:07:33.130
Like it's not necessarily something that's, Oh, it's just in
1302
01:07:33.170 --> 01:07:37.590
his head. Like it feels like ultimately the story ends
1303
01:07:37.690 --> 01:07:42.349
up being about the rejection of self and loneliness and
1304
01:07:42.730 --> 01:07:46.719
embracing like outside of yourself or embracing others.
1305
01:07:46.889 --> 01:07:49.619
And Shinji's reward is that he is reunited with his mother,
1306
01:07:49.659 --> 01:07:53.489
something that, I guess Gendo gets it right at the end,
1307
01:07:53.530 --> 01:07:56.070
but it's not a true reunion. They're at a remove.
1308
01:07:56.429 --> 01:08:01.530
And thinking about the series in general, the most recent
1309
01:08:01.550 --> 01:08:04.139
rewatch of the series I had, I was reminded of,
1310
01:08:05.429 --> 01:08:08.760
as I get older, I find myself relating more to
1311
01:08:08.840 --> 01:08:14.360
the Masato, Ritsuko, Kaji kind of triangle. And just thinking
1312
01:08:14.420 --> 01:08:18.350
about how you make these friends who are very close
1313
01:08:18.630 --> 01:08:20.409
to you for a long period of time but then
1314
01:08:20.449 --> 01:08:23.130
over time you drift apart yeah and that's another like
1315
01:08:23.630 --> 01:08:26.970
tragedy of being human is that sometimes you drift apart
1316
01:08:26.989 --> 01:08:30.779
but you can always come back together um and sometimes
1317
01:08:31.539 --> 01:08:34.800
being reunited isn't the right thing i think ritsuko and
1318
01:08:35.000 --> 01:08:39.520
masato you could argue whether they benefited from each other
1319
01:08:39.619 --> 01:08:43.760
or not um But Ritsuko is a fascinating character. I
1320
01:08:43.800 --> 01:08:46.020
think over time she has become kind of my favorite
1321
01:08:46.060 --> 01:08:47.939
character of the entire piece.
1322
01:08:48.159 --> 01:08:48.680
She's great.
1323
01:08:48.890 --> 01:08:52.949
That's an interesting take too. I love that. I love,
1324
01:08:54.569 --> 01:08:58.449
I think what is always great when it comes to
1325
01:08:58.489 --> 01:09:01.270
like a great ending or a conclusion to a story,
1326
01:09:01.289 --> 01:09:04.510
I feel like, and pretty, you know, with television, with
1327
01:09:04.649 --> 01:09:07.869
like a film series, but the best endings to me
1328
01:09:07.890 --> 01:09:10.550
are the ones that kind of enrich what comes before
1329
01:09:10.670 --> 01:09:12.750
where you can go back to the beginning and feel like,
1330
01:09:12.789 --> 01:09:15.260
I feel like with Twin Peaks that happened with me
1331
01:09:15.380 --> 01:09:18.779
and certainly with other things as well. But what excites
1332
01:09:18.819 --> 01:09:20.869
me a lot about having kind of finally gotten to
1333
01:09:20.890 --> 01:09:23.550
the end of this is going back and rewatching it
1334
01:09:23.670 --> 01:09:28.250
in the context of that. And no, in some ways,
1335
01:09:28.350 --> 01:09:30.850
like some of my favorite stories are the ones where
1336
01:09:30.909 --> 01:09:32.930
I kind of don't know what's coming. And like, you
1337
01:09:32.989 --> 01:09:34.489
find out, you get to the end and it's kind
1338
01:09:34.520 --> 01:09:36.680
of like, okay, great. But there are other stories that
1339
01:09:36.779 --> 01:09:41.199
I feel like are almost even more enriching because the
1340
01:09:41.319 --> 01:09:45.439
ending sort of completely changes how you see beginning and
1341
01:09:45.460 --> 01:09:47.659
i feel like a lot of the series which i
1342
01:09:47.720 --> 01:09:50.859
enjoyed and think it's incredible i feel like i probably
1343
01:09:50.920 --> 01:09:53.760
took a lot of stuff for granted that going back
1344
01:09:53.819 --> 01:09:56.500
and re-watching it in the context of this movie it'll
1345
01:09:56.520 --> 01:09:58.619
be i'll appreciate.
1346
01:09:58.079 --> 01:10:00.680
It yeah i say from personal experience this is a
1347
01:10:00.720 --> 01:10:03.359
series that only benefits from re-watches.
1348
01:10:02.859 --> 01:10:06.340
Right so how uh what do we think anything else
1349
01:10:06.399 --> 01:10:09.279
any other moments that you want to call out i
1350
01:10:09.300 --> 01:10:13.010
think i mean the visual of like giant monster god
1351
01:10:13.390 --> 01:10:17.250
ray is insane i've seen it's iconic yeah i've seen
1352
01:10:17.270 --> 01:10:21.069
the image of the the half face for a lot
1353
01:10:21.250 --> 01:10:23.609
and so it's nice to finally see it in context
1354
01:10:23.909 --> 01:10:28.439
um and then i kind of my last thing i
1355
01:10:28.500 --> 01:10:33.100
kind of sort of love that it is kind of
1356
01:10:33.119 --> 01:10:40.300
a romance between us like asuka and shinji like I
1357
01:10:40.340 --> 01:10:42.100
didn't see them as like end.
1358
01:10:41.979 --> 01:10:43.539
Game, you know, in the, in the show.
1359
01:10:43.640 --> 01:10:45.279
Like I was kind of like, Oh, she's there and
1360
01:10:45.319 --> 01:10:45.899
they know each other.
1361
01:10:45.920 --> 01:10:47.319
And there's like a kind.
1362
01:10:47.180 --> 01:10:50.619
Of will they, won't they sort of, but like, I
1363
01:10:50.640 --> 01:10:52.979
always saw it more as like a sibling thing and
1364
01:10:53.010 --> 01:10:56.409
thought like Ray was kind of the true love until
1365
01:10:56.449 --> 01:10:59.050
I found out that, Oh, she's his mom. And then
1366
01:10:59.090 --> 01:11:01.109
that opened up a whole wealth of like, what is,
1367
01:11:01.250 --> 01:11:03.229
what's happening? What is this movie or what is the
1368
01:11:03.250 --> 01:11:06.189
show saying? But I actually think it's kind of touching.
1369
01:11:06.449 --> 01:11:10.770
They're both like, lonely people who were who lost their
1370
01:11:11.399 --> 01:11:14.399
mothers who want to be loved and don't know how
1371
01:11:14.520 --> 01:11:17.600
and she's jealous of the attention that he gets and
1372
01:11:17.760 --> 01:11:19.539
he just wants to be left alone and doesn't want
1373
01:11:19.600 --> 01:11:21.720
anything to do with the avas so there's something kind
1374
01:11:21.760 --> 01:11:25.720
of lovely about the idea that at the end they
1375
01:11:25.800 --> 01:11:28.140
sort of find each other and they need each other
1376
01:11:28.159 --> 01:11:32.260
um yeah that's my final two cents.
1377
01:11:32.180 --> 01:11:34.939
No that's that's very valid yeah i think they both
1378
01:11:35.020 --> 01:11:38.000
lash out at the external world in their own way
1379
01:11:38.159 --> 01:11:40.659
yeah they both react to it uh i'd be loathe
1380
01:11:40.689 --> 01:11:43.470
not to mention the just how good the sound design
1381
01:11:43.550 --> 01:11:46.609
is in this movie it's really incredible lots of splats
1382
01:11:46.869 --> 01:11:50.130
yeah lots of but like so i've having seen the
1383
01:11:50.170 --> 01:11:52.630
dub a lot i will say it's so it's so
1384
01:11:52.689 --> 01:11:56.539
satisfying to watch it uh with the intended audio because
1385
01:11:56.600 --> 01:11:59.319
the dub makes a lot of choices there's some like
1386
01:11:59.399 --> 01:12:04.029
very cartoony splats that aren't there in the original audio
1387
01:12:04.050 --> 01:12:07.729
like we're the one where masato saves shinji shinji and
1388
01:12:07.750 --> 01:12:10.189
she's like nothing personal and shoots the guy you get
1389
01:12:10.229 --> 01:12:13.420
a very cartoony like oh my god and it's really
1390
01:12:13.479 --> 01:12:16.630
bad and there's um it really it also they choose
1391
01:12:16.670 --> 01:12:21.229
to make the Japanese forces that are storming NERV much
1392
01:12:21.310 --> 01:12:25.180
more cartoonishly evil. The one I always think about... I
1393
01:12:25.180 --> 01:12:25.460
got you.
1394
01:12:25.520 --> 01:12:26.020
Exactly.
1395
01:12:26.079 --> 01:12:28.340
The one I always think... There's the scene where there's
1396
01:12:28.380 --> 01:12:31.460
a group of people just shooting a flamethrower into a hallway,
1397
01:12:31.960 --> 01:12:34.319
and then they pause and they do it again. In
1398
01:12:34.779 --> 01:12:38.079
this version, in the original audio, you don't get any commentary.
1399
01:12:38.119 --> 01:12:40.340
They're just doing that. In this dub.
1400
01:12:42.810 --> 01:12:46.189
They spray the flames, you hear a very cartoony scream,
1401
01:12:46.590 --> 01:12:48.800
and then you hear a voice say, hit him again.
1402
01:12:51.350 --> 01:12:54.479
I think, and let's just bring it full circle back
1403
01:12:54.539 --> 01:12:59.239
to like discovering anime that like, oh, what I'm watching,
1404
01:12:59.300 --> 01:13:03.159
the Digimon show that I'm watching is actually not what
1405
01:13:03.260 --> 01:13:07.279
it originally was, like down to the intention of what
1406
01:13:07.300 --> 01:13:08.079
the characters are.
1407
01:13:08.000 --> 01:13:08.760
Doing and saying.
1408
01:13:09.270 --> 01:13:11.210
And a lot of, I think, the Digimon show, what
1409
01:13:11.289 --> 01:13:13.189
annoyed me about the dub, even though I like the
1410
01:13:13.270 --> 01:13:17.800
actors a lot, is that need to fill the silences
1411
01:13:17.880 --> 01:13:20.939
with stupid jokes or something. Like, oh, kids aren't going
1412
01:13:20.960 --> 01:13:24.079
to like it unless we make it dumb. And then
1413
01:13:24.199 --> 01:13:26.859
once I finally got to go and watch Digimon and
1414
01:13:26.880 --> 01:13:29.800
some of the films in the original language, how much
1415
01:13:30.119 --> 01:13:34.800
of that fear of silence is just completely gone. And
1416
01:13:34.859 --> 01:13:39.729
it completely changes the vibe of the show things that
1417
01:13:39.829 --> 01:13:45.329
felt goofy uh suddenly feel very solemn and intentional and
1418
01:13:45.390 --> 01:13:48.529
serious and emotional when you're watching them uh when you
1419
01:13:48.600 --> 01:13:51.380
don't have commentary like that.
1420
01:13:51.300 --> 01:13:54.739
Imagine just letting a moment sit wouldn't that be crazy
1421
01:13:54.920 --> 01:13:57.220
i mean the series is very good about that you
1422
01:13:57.260 --> 01:14:02.850
have the for for practical and and thematic reasons because
1423
01:14:02.909 --> 01:14:06.489
obviously there was they were working with They're budgetary and
1424
01:14:06.529 --> 01:14:09.789
production constraints, but you have scenes like the infamous elevator
1425
01:14:09.829 --> 01:14:12.710
scene where you're just there for a long time.
1426
01:14:12.729 --> 01:14:15.149
There are moments where I was like, am I watching
1427
01:14:15.189 --> 01:14:18.260
on Netflix? I'm like, is this freeze? Is my internet out?
1428
01:14:18.359 --> 01:14:19.159
What's going on?
1429
01:14:19.180 --> 01:14:22.779
Just moments where you see Shinji in the early... part
1430
01:14:22.800 --> 01:14:24.880
of the series where he's at the train station and
1431
01:14:24.939 --> 01:14:28.420
that you just wait as the train goes by slowly, uh,
1432
01:14:28.539 --> 01:14:31.689
him holding Kauru where the classical music plays for a
1433
01:14:31.729 --> 01:14:34.789
long time. Uh, it's amazing what happens when you just
1434
01:14:34.930 --> 01:14:36.369
let a moment sit.
1435
01:14:36.670 --> 01:14:40.010
Yeah. So I, uh, yeah, this is incredible.
1436
01:14:40.689 --> 01:14:43.180
I feel like I, I'm again, I'm kind of dumbfounded
1437
01:14:43.399 --> 01:14:45.720
and maybe at some point in my life, I'll have
1438
01:14:45.779 --> 01:14:48.479
more thoughts on it, but like, it's a very, it's
1439
01:14:48.500 --> 01:14:52.159
a very overwhelming experience. It's a very emotional experience. Um,
1440
01:14:52.779 --> 01:14:58.010
But it was devastating in the right ways. It's not
1441
01:14:58.050 --> 01:15:01.810
a pessimistic, hopeless movie. It's disturbing and unsettling, but it
1442
01:15:01.869 --> 01:15:03.350
kind of has a little.
1443
01:15:03.229 --> 01:15:05.270
Spark to it that I appreciate.
1444
01:15:05.310 --> 01:15:08.210
Yeah, I think there's an attitude from some people that's
1445
01:15:09.149 --> 01:15:10.909
focusing only on, oh, this movie will.
1446
01:15:11.800 --> 01:15:13.380
wreck you traumatize.
1447
01:15:12.920 --> 01:15:16.100
You man which in some ways yes but yeah but
1448
01:15:16.180 --> 01:15:18.640
and that's that's a valid response to the movie i
1449
01:15:18.680 --> 01:15:21.279
don't think that's the way one should approach the movie
1450
01:15:21.340 --> 01:15:24.470
and i don't think that's what i take away from
1451
01:15:24.520 --> 01:15:26.869
the movie as the main like it's certainly not the
1452
01:15:26.930 --> 01:15:27.850
reason the movie.
1453
01:15:27.630 --> 01:15:31.010
Exists no no and i also feel like the end
1454
01:15:31.050 --> 01:15:34.329
of the series felt a little more pessimistic to me
1455
01:15:34.409 --> 01:15:38.279
like again like the phoniness of just the standing ovation
1456
01:15:38.310 --> 01:15:41.149
when Shinji is like, I've overcome my depression basically.
1457
01:15:41.189 --> 01:15:43.210
And everyone's like, yeah, you did it.
1458
01:15:43.270 --> 01:15:46.649
Just felt like, okay, like, am I like, are we
1459
01:15:46.750 --> 01:15:49.529
making fun of me for caring or like what's going
1460
01:15:49.590 --> 01:15:52.479
on here? So the, the movie I think fixes a
1461
01:15:52.520 --> 01:15:55.079
lot of that. And even though a lot of what's
1462
01:15:55.119 --> 01:15:59.500
happening in it is like soul crushing, um, ultimately the
1463
01:15:59.560 --> 01:16:01.779
message and even the message of the series with that
1464
01:16:02.100 --> 01:16:05.449
awkward ending, um, is basically like you need people in
1465
01:16:05.470 --> 01:16:08.720
your life and life is worth living despite the pain
1466
01:16:08.840 --> 01:16:10.399
and like, you'll be okay.
1467
01:16:10.439 --> 01:16:13.220
You kind of mentioned it in the, in the intermission
1468
01:16:13.279 --> 01:16:15.380
section of this movie where you were like, I feel
1469
01:16:15.399 --> 01:16:18.090
like this is like what I saw in the TV
1470
01:16:18.119 --> 01:16:21.670
ending could be happening here as well. Just, we're not seeing, yeah,
1471
01:16:21.689 --> 01:16:25.609
that's a common take that the movie or the television
1472
01:16:25.710 --> 01:16:28.789
ending is giving you the internal view, whereas the movie
1473
01:16:28.829 --> 01:16:31.060
is giving you more of the external view.
1474
01:16:31.300 --> 01:16:32.920
Yeah i wouldn't trade one for the other i don't
1475
01:16:33.000 --> 01:16:35.680
i don't subscribe to the idea that you mentioned of
1476
01:16:35.739 --> 01:16:38.739
some people saying like oh this is the true ending
1477
01:16:38.920 --> 01:16:40.000
they both feel.
1478
01:16:39.800 --> 01:16:42.430
Kind of essential yeah i'm really glad we live in
1479
01:16:42.479 --> 01:16:43.869
a world with both.
1480
01:16:43.750 --> 01:16:47.850
Yes me too so i guess uh final final ratings
1481
01:16:48.109 --> 01:16:53.890
um how many how many legends would you become for for.
1482
01:16:52.930 --> 01:16:58.239
The end of evangelion uh I'll go a full five
1483
01:16:58.279 --> 01:16:59.359
out of five legends.
1484
01:16:59.479 --> 01:17:00.420
I'll give it a full five.
1485
01:17:00.460 --> 01:17:02.699
And I think like, you know, partly I'm rating the
1486
01:17:02.760 --> 01:17:05.770
entire experience, but also I think the film on its
1487
01:17:05.970 --> 01:17:09.149
own is very powerful. So I would give it the
1488
01:17:09.189 --> 01:17:12.489
full five out of five as well. But this is great.
1489
01:17:12.510 --> 01:17:15.409
It finally, how does it feel being the one introducing the,
1490
01:17:15.800 --> 01:17:17.000
the movie on missing frames.
1491
01:17:17.060 --> 01:17:19.279
Now I can only hope I was a good, uh,
1492
01:17:19.399 --> 01:17:22.500
guide into this journey. Well, I love, I got you
1493
01:17:22.539 --> 01:17:24.260
back out of the, out of the fluid.
1494
01:17:24.380 --> 01:17:24.680
Yes.
1495
01:17:24.720 --> 01:17:27.329
We're back into reality. I think I did an okay job.
1496
01:17:27.430 --> 01:17:28.210
I think this is great.
1497
01:17:28.250 --> 01:17:30.369
I'm glad it worked out because you know, it's nice
1498
01:17:30.409 --> 01:17:32.989
that I kind of started the Ava journey with you.
1499
01:17:33.229 --> 01:17:35.789
Like, and then we get to, wrap it all up
1500
01:17:35.829 --> 01:17:36.890
together so.
1501
01:17:36.590 --> 01:17:38.810
Yeah and we were just at dragon con uh here
1502
01:17:38.829 --> 01:17:41.210
in atlanta where i'm sure we both saw plenty of
1503
01:17:41.350 --> 01:17:42.289
evangelion cosplay.
1504
01:17:42.090 --> 01:17:44.310
Exactly now i understand all of it and now i
1505
01:17:44.350 --> 01:17:48.510
can be as otaku as sano dirt not sano ano
1506
01:17:48.569 --> 01:17:49.229
doesn't want me.
1507
01:17:49.149 --> 01:17:52.520
To be we can go live off uh evangelion products
1508
01:17:52.529 --> 01:17:53.899
for the rest of our lives can't.
1509
01:17:53.819 --> 01:17:56.340
Wait that's all i've ever wanted so tc thank you
1510
01:17:56.359 --> 01:17:58.800
so much for hanging out is there anywhere anywhere the
1511
01:17:58.840 --> 01:18:00.100
good people at home should find you uh.
1512
01:18:00.579 --> 01:18:05.020
I'm still on instagram uh tc paget i'm there continuing
1513
01:18:05.090 --> 01:18:07.989
to watch every vampire movie ever made as is my want.
1514
01:18:08.609 --> 01:18:10.689
And how many, let the good people know how many
1515
01:18:10.710 --> 01:18:11.430
you've seen.
1516
01:18:11.630 --> 01:18:15.850
I'm up to 317. And yeah, many of, many of
1517
01:18:15.890 --> 01:18:18.689
those ranked on a list in my letterboxd, which is also.
1518
01:18:18.489 --> 01:18:19.939
On my Instagram. Perfect.
1519
01:18:20.039 --> 01:18:23.640
And yeah, I'm just Sean Dorman on Instagram and at
1520
01:18:23.699 --> 01:18:27.020
yay Sean Dorman on Twitter and Sean Dorman 05 on
1521
01:18:27.060 --> 01:18:29.899
letterboxd because it would be too easy to just.
1522
01:18:29.720 --> 01:18:30.619
Have been Sean Dorman.
1523
01:18:31.319 --> 01:18:34.119
Across all three no there is another Sean Dorman out
1524
01:18:34.189 --> 01:18:38.510
there and I will find him and uh hopefully it
1525
01:18:38.529 --> 01:18:41.270
won't be as dramatic as the end of Evangelion but
1526
01:18:41.289 --> 01:18:43.850
it could be close so thank you again and thank
1527
01:18:43.869 --> 01:18:46.189
you everyone for listening we will see you at the
1528
01:18:46.229 --> 01:18:47.750
movies congratulations