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[SPEAKER_00]: For those of you that are new around here, I released bonus episodes that serve a niche part of my audience, so if this content is something that doesn't fit what you're looking for, check out the other episodes that drop this week or join me back here next week for episodes that you don't want to miss.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and 10,000 is truly what an amazing myth that we're excited to bust.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's a list over from a 1960s Japanese pedometer company's marketing campaign.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it was around the Tokyo Olympics.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The device only ticked up to 10,000.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so when you hit 10,000, it went back to zero.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then the name of the device in Japanese was the 10,000 staff meter.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so 10,000 was really, never based on science.
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[SPEAKER_00]: This is Diane Boden, and you're listening to the minimalist mom's podcast.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What if one of the most powerful tools through your health, longevity, and overall well-being is something you're already doing every day, but not quite optimally?
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[SPEAKER_00]: In today's episode, we're rethinking walking with expert backed insights that challenge common assumptions, including the 10,000 steps myth.
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[SPEAKER_00]: My guest, Dr. Melissa McDonough, and I explore how you're walking speed, cadence, and even foot health can reveal deeper truths about your body, and how small, simple shifts can reduce pain, improve energy, and support long-term health.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I will say, I'm sure there's a lot of you that have researched the benefits of walking for your health.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I know that I've done that, and yet this episode was full of information that I had never heard in my life.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So stick around even if this is something that you feel like you already know about.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Quickly before we get there, if you enjoy this conversation today, make sure you hit five stars, you're subscribed to the Minimal's Mom's Podcast, or share this episode with a friend that could benefit.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And with that, let's get into my conversation with Dr. Melissa McDowell.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Dr. Melissa McDowell, thank you so much for joining me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be talking about your new book, it's called Walk.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Rediscover the most natural way to boost your health and longevity one step at a time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for joining me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me on.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so why don't you go ahead first and introduce yourself to the listeners and tell me about how this book came to be.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I am a physical therapist by training and spent many years working with individuals of all ages, mostly lower extremity-type problems, and my colleague and co-author Dr. Courtney Conley reached out to me two years ago and said, hey, I want to write a book and need your help, and I said, oh, great, because Courtney is this huge expert in
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[SPEAKER_01]: just everywhere, right, she's flying NFL teams and working with celebrities and just has this incredible practice that is all about foot health.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so I said, oh, great.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm happy to help.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And that was sort of how the book got started.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's that old sort of joke, a character, a physical therapist walking to a bar.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So it was kind of like we walked into a book and tried to figure out what we were doing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: For me, walking has always been a part of my life.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a mom, my daughter's that turned 21.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The week our book is born.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So we have a book, baby, being born and my real baby, turning 21.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I started walking as a way to combat having a really time postpartum, a hard time postpartum.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was also a triathlete.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought, you know, I could manage some of my challenges in motherhood by just doing long distance activities.
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[SPEAKER_01]: really abusing my body and that I kind of kept coming back to.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe a walk is a better choice.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe some things that I can use to dial that nervous system down and take some time and space and breathe and connect with my loved ones.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So it's been a journey.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's definitely been something that has been in the background throughout my entire career.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_00]: The first question I would have for you is that I think that people overlook the importance of walking in their day to day, not just for exercise, but for mental health.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe let's talk to the exercise piece.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think that people don't see the benefit in how good just a simple walk outside can be.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, from a physiologic standpoint, when you walk, you're activating almost every major system of your body.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Got nervous system.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You get increased blood flow to your brain.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You're strengthening your bones, you're toning your muscles.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You're gliding your fascia.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the list goes on and on.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, from a physiological perspective, you're doing yourself a huge favor, even if you walk for five minutes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The mental health benefits are even more staggering.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We can improve cognitive clarity and clear thinking.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We can boost our mood.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We can be more creative.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It can improve your feelings of well-being and feeling whole.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Reduce symptoms of anxiety and depression.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's sort of like the vitamin nobody's taking.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those things that's right at our fingertips.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the message is really let's rediscover this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's reclaim it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Let's take it back.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to have a $300 month gym membership to be healthy, you can take some of that immediately today and just walk out your front door and and take some steps toward improving your health.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I'm sure a lot of listeners have heard the idea of the 10,000 step rule.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it went up 5,000 steps from when and when I maybe first heard that 15 years ago.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, between 5 and 10,000 steps seems to be optimal for all types of health.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What is true about that?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Is it one or the other?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Is it lowers higher?
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[SPEAKER_00]: What is the reason?
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great question.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the research says it's like an all-acart menu at your favorite restaurant and so there's something for everyone the absolute basement if you are heavily inactive if you've just had a see section if you've just had a totally replacement if you've just got in a car accident or you've been deconditioned with some systematic disease for years.
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[SPEAKER_01]: basement basement basement 20 500 steps a day.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If you're below that, that's where all health breaks loose and you can end up with all sorts of, you know, early death risks from cardiovascular disease, our mental health disorders, our cancers, those sorts of things.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So we really Trump it, 2500 a greater.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But you're right, 5,000.
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[SPEAKER_01]: There's all kinds of benefits at 5,000.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So at 5,000, you start to reduce the risk of seven major types of cancers.
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[SPEAKER_01]: 5,500 is where you start to reduce symptoms of depression.
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[SPEAKER_01]: 7,500 is where you can reduce your risk of ever-developing depression.
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[SPEAKER_01]: For most adults, cardiovascular improvements occur between 7,500 and 8,500.
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[SPEAKER_01]: and 10,000 is truly one of those amazing myths that we're excited to bust.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's a leftover from 1960s Japanese pedometer companies marketing campaign and it was around the Tokyo Olympics.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The device only ticked up to 10,000 and so when you hit 10,000 it went back to zero.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And then the name of the device in Japanese was the 10,000 stop meter.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, 10,000 was really, never based on science.
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[SPEAKER_01]: There is some research in the dementia literature that's in the 9,000s to reduce risk of dementia.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But you write, 10,000 is just an unapproachable number for a lot of people.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It can be discouraging.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, we really want people to hear the message that if you're above 2500, you are doing amazing.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The 5K number is a great daily goal.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That's 7,000 plus if you're looking for some specific benefits.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And 10K, it's old news.
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[SPEAKER_00]: OK, interesting.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to check how many steps I've been getting because I know it's nowhere near what I used to get.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But I've been prioritizing Pilates over a week.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like sometimes if I get up and do a 6am Pilates class, by 8 o'clock when I used to walk, I'm too tired.
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[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, well, I've already moved my body, so it's OK. What's my question here?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I think some of us are like, well, I'm already active, so I don't need to go walk and yet, what is your thoughts on anything that I've said so far?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now I love that and I hear people say those sorts of things all the time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's the 6am Pilates class, it's the 9am Monny and me, it's the Iron 5K this morning.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You still have to walk, take your vitamin, brush your teeth, drink your water girl, and walk.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And if we stop characterizing it as an exercise and more as
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[SPEAKER_01]: eating a physiological need that your body wants.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Your body wants to breathe, your body wants to sleep, your body battle for millions of years to have the right to walk up, right?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And because of how the rhythmic nature of walking
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[SPEAKER_01]: influences our physiological and our cognitive neurological systems.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's something your body craves.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so, a six-hand employees class is phenomenal, lengthening mobility, strengthening community, all of those pieces, 100%.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But it kind of doesn't give you a free pass on the walking.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, what I like to say, it's a yes and yes, Pilates, yes, pickleball, yes, crossfit, yes to run a 5k.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And let's get those steps.
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[SPEAKER_01]: ingrained in your lifestyle.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And for busy moms, we have an entire chapter that's about time management, and we talk about, we're both moms, we're both busy, we both have practices, we wrote a book, we were doing all these things, we both moved in the year that we were writing, and so it's a real concern for people like, where am I going to stick this?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I have so many other things to do.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, absolutely have them check out that chapter if they're going to pick up the book.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But my next thought about that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So you mentioned like maybe they already went on a 5K run.
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[SPEAKER_00]: They ran this morning.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yet you should still walk and get those extra steps in or just the steps in general.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So are you suggesting there's a pace that we should be walking?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Also, it's too slow or am I supposed to hit a certain pace?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's a question that Courtney and I get asked a ton.
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[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, what's the right way to do this?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Give us the prescription.
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[SPEAKER_01]: As far as pace goes, the average normal sized human.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're not four foot one, you're not seven foot one.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Those of us that are kind of in the middle of the size range, most of us walk between 80 and 100 steps a minute is our comfortable pace.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So, I travel a ton for my job.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I would say that's like strolling through the airport, you're not in a rush, they're not boarding your gate.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You're just walking.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Just walk, it's fine.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if we're like, hey, our gate's calling, they're calling our last names.
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[SPEAKER_01]: We are all way down the terminal.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That brisk walk from most of us, 120 to 130.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Easiest way to test that, take your watch, give yourself a 30 second count every step on your comfortable pace, like I'm not late for a plane, and then when you want to see what your more brisk pace is, if you can hit that 120 or 130, same deal, 30 seconds on the watch, count every step.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And what we know is for those of us that want to get some fat burning benefit, get into zone two from a physiology standpoint that 120 to 130 is typically the cadence that's used in most of the research studies and where we see the largest amount of benefit.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And what's funny about that, zone two and zone through a little bit of a term that gets thrown around a lot in, you know, all sorts of health influencers and scientists and doctors like, oh, do zone two for this do zone three for that the easiest way to tell if you're in zone three is it's really hard to talk.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're doing an activity, breathing and talking, and it's difficult, you've crested over it as three, and three is a great training zone too.
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[SPEAKER_01]: For walking, you could do all sorts of activities in zone three, but you're getting more cardiovascular training benefit.
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[SPEAKER_01]: If you dial it down just to click to where we can still talk, we can still breathe, but we're walking, but we're kind of like late for an airplane.
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[SPEAKER_01]: That zone two is where you start shifting your fuel burn, a little more fat, little less carb, that's where some of the body composition changes will happen, and people love that, because it's low intensity, you're not pounding, you're not running, you're not rocking, you're not doing things that are heavy, but you're just being pretty cognizant of pace, and that zone two is sort of a sweet spot for those reasons.
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[SPEAKER_00]: In regards to time management, I think when someone hears, oh, I need to be getting between five and probably 7500 to hit these certain markers that I desire to hit, but I am just really not knowing where to put that in.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What's your encouragement there?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Because again, work moms, we're juggling many things, we're tired.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Is there a better time of day that you would recommend a newbie start to add a walk in?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So there is good research on them.
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[SPEAKER_01]: The first thing in the morning and the last thing at night, but when you've got little kids or toddlers or babies or, you know, if you do have a partner, don't have a partner, sometimes maybe you're home alone before work, that's not realistic for a lot of us.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So if you have the luxury to knock it out first thing, I mean, go girl.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But if that's not realistic, the secret sauce is in this.
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[SPEAKER_01]: the swap and the stack.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So a swap is, I just sat 45 minutes scrolling through New York Times cooking.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I just checked everybody's Instagram from my high school class.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things we teach in the book is just to do a really authentic self assessment of how you're spending your time.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Your phone's gonna tell you how much time you spent on it.
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[SPEAKER_01]: You can sit down and look at a weekday, look at a week and I'd be like, wow, you know, I love reading the newspaper, but reading the newspaper turned into a deep dive into what Taylor Swift is up to.
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[SPEAKER_01]: So a switch or a swap is saying all right I know I spent 15 minutes messing around on social I'm gonna take that 15 minutes back and I'm gonna go do something that serves me a little bit more So I love I love that concept I love the swap or the switch I think that has just a lot of power it allows us to
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[SPEAKER_01]: be really sort of, you know, genuine about how we're spending our time and think of ways we can maybe re-allocate it, and then the stack is just incredible.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And when Courtney and I were writing this book, we talked on the phone while both of us were walking our dogs almost daily, because it would be like, hey, chapter blah, blah, blah, oh, I was really struggling with this part about shoes.
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[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And would be on our ear pods, and I'd be walking
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[SPEAKER_01]: So a stack is phenomenal.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I talk to my parents when I'm walking.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I listen to podcasts when I'm walking.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Once and a while I'll start dictating text to my husband and he's like, what are you?
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[SPEAKER_01]: What are you sending me in the grocery list?
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[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, what are these words?
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[SPEAKER_01]: I don't understand.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But I love a stack.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that that swapping or switching is a really powerful
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[SPEAKER_01]: ownership of your time and then a stack is just thing like look I got 10 minutes right now I'm going to do two things at once.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to have a conversation with somebody on the phone and I'm going to get my feet moving indoor outdoor doesn't matter if you're on a treadmill or walking pad at completely counts.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad you said that because that was me me my next question.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I tried Mill.
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[SPEAKER_00]: But I used to have some of those roles.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It was mostly when I just had one child and I could take her to the gym with me.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would just say this is my scroll time.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Or I'll watch the bachelor while I'm here.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm not going to watch Crash TV unless I'm moving my body doing something else.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm really glad you spoke to that because I wasn't sure.
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[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, obviously, again, with the whole idea of grounding and being outside.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have to be in your bare feet?
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[SPEAKER_00]: Do you even believe in
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[SPEAKER_01]: No, I do believe in grounding.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I love grounding.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I think our ability to reconnect with non-manmade services is so powerful.
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[SPEAKER_01]: My corporate job is in Houston, Texas.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And as I show right now, lovely people, great Mexican food, concrete, as far as the eye can see.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And it was really poignant the last time I got home from being in Texas for a week of work.
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[SPEAKER_01]: I was home in Montana.
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[SPEAKER_01]: then we have a little dog and I took her out to go potty and I walked across our man made surfaces where we live and then I walked into the grass and I was like, whoa, I haven't felt something soft under my feet in a week and it, this light bulb just turned out I was like, man, I gotta pay attention when I had an Texas to go and seek out those, those soft surfaces to like reconnect with the planet we're actually standing on.
15:40.715 --> 15:42.137
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think groundings amazing.
15:42.217 --> 15:44.039
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the electromagnetic fieldsides of it.
15:44.079 --> 15:45.861
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think it's fascinating stuff.
15:45.841 --> 15:51.378
[SPEAKER_01]: But practicality wise, I want you to walk, however you have access.
15:51.438 --> 15:59.783
[SPEAKER_01]: So, if that means you're walking on a treadmill, if that means you're walking in Houston and a proper pair of shoes, if that means you have the luxury to walk on a beach or a grass.
15:59.999 --> 16:02.364
[SPEAKER_01]: All we want you to do is get your feet down.
16:02.384 --> 16:04.769
[SPEAKER_01]: The closer you are to the earth, the better.
16:04.809 --> 16:15.231
[SPEAKER_01]: There is some conversation in our book about hyper-engineered shoes and access cushion and all the fancy features that the shoe companies are trying to convince us all that we need.
16:15.892 --> 16:18.818
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just believe we need.
16:18.798 --> 16:31.634
[SPEAKER_01]: daily walking, just like a vitamin, treadmill's great, especially if you live somewhere where the weather's junkie is maybe unsafe, you only can go before or after work at Starch, like I live really far north, it's very dark where I live half the year.
16:31.694 --> 16:40.746
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's snow, there's ice, there's darkness, and a walking pattern of treadmill is a great way to to get that done, you know, get as much of the benefit as you have access to.
16:41.206 --> 16:47.995
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, outdoors in the sun with red light coming from the sky, everything else with amazing, but kind of
16:48.970 --> 16:51.333
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about foot health and shoes.
16:51.413 --> 16:54.397
[SPEAKER_00]: You did mention the various shoes that were being sold these days.
16:54.457 --> 16:55.238
[SPEAKER_00]: The barefoot shoe.
16:55.298 --> 16:57.020
[SPEAKER_00]: I did have a pair of those at one point.
16:57.681 --> 16:59.082
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't really notice the difference.
16:59.102 --> 17:01.545
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes there's too much cushion or too little cushion.
17:01.866 --> 17:10.236
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I don't really know the science behind it and how they can affect our walking habits or how we're getting it wrong when we're choosing these shoes.
17:10.638 --> 17:18.386
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I was in London recently and what really brought it home for me is next to a bright ring watch store that sells $20,000 watches.
17:18.867 --> 17:20.629
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a hook a shoe store.
17:21.149 --> 17:27.657
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was looking at this location just in my head thinking the store sells $20,000 items, right?
17:27.697 --> 17:30.760
[SPEAKER_01]: So the rent is outrageous as in this beautiful district of London.
17:31.160 --> 17:39.109
[SPEAKER_01]: And right next door is a place that sells $200 running shoes, which shows you the big business we're dealing with with mega shoe companies
17:39.089 --> 17:41.552
[SPEAKER_01]: So, here are some of the challenges.
17:41.893 --> 17:43.796
[SPEAKER_01]: Shoes have gotten overengineering.
17:43.976 --> 17:47.601
[SPEAKER_01]: They are doing a lot of the work that your body should be doing itself.
17:48.102 --> 17:59.458
[SPEAKER_01]: When you're in a shoe that is super cushioned and has like a very high stack height where your heel is popped up, the shoe is changing your mechanics and not for the better, necessarily, of your foot health.
18:00.038 --> 18:04.084
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing that is a challenge right now is most walking and running shoes.
18:04.064 --> 18:06.286
[SPEAKER_01]: When you look down at them, they have a tapered toe box.
18:06.767 --> 18:09.009
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't have a foot shape in the toe box.
18:09.029 --> 18:17.137
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what happens when you put your foot in the shoe, your little toes are getting kind of smooshed together and they're touching, and they can't display.
18:17.197 --> 18:28.789
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you see a shoe that is foot shaped, and the widest part of the shoe is where your toes are, which matches your anatomy, because the widest part of your foot should be where your toes are.
18:28.769 --> 18:34.041
[SPEAKER_01]: that she allows your foot to play and it's critically important for moms and here's why.
18:34.081 --> 18:48.313
[SPEAKER_01]: When our toes are not being pinched together in a tapered shoe and we can play and open up those toes, we have better balance it reduces fall risk and it activates all the internal muscles in your foot.
18:48.715 --> 18:51.583
[SPEAKER_01]: Those muscles co-activate pelvic floor.
18:52.425 --> 19:03.737
[SPEAKER_01]: So the stronger your feet are, the more endurance you have in those wet muscles, that helps through those fashile chains and co-contraction of the lower body to support pelvic floor.
19:03.717 --> 19:23.914
[SPEAKER_01]: And any mom who's struggled, you know, postpartum or has any sort of pelvic issues and continents, any of that, strengthsening the foot and getting into a wide toe box shoe, a more minimal shoe, is a step in the right direction that helps you strengthen your feet anytime you have those shoes on.
19:24.094 --> 19:27.801
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's, it is a untapped opportunity for a lot of moms.
19:28.743 --> 19:34.452
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then on the flip side, we grew up with old navy flip flops.
19:34.592 --> 19:35.954
[SPEAKER_00]: At least I did, I don't know if you did.
19:36.715 --> 19:38.879
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, we all were wearing them in high school.
19:39.560 --> 19:47.612
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just know I couldn't have that little of support at this point in time, but maybe I have that wrong as well.
19:48.419 --> 20:00.917
[SPEAKER_01]: A flip flap's a challenging shoe because in order to keep it on your foot, you sort of have to like claw your little toes and activate all the muscles in the arch of your foot to stay on the flip flap, otherwise when you step forward it would fly off the back.
20:01.658 --> 20:06.444
[SPEAKER_01]: And so flip flaps are funny because they sort of meet the requirements of a minimal shoe, right?
20:07.085 --> 20:12.553
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's not a wedge, it's flat, it's flexible, those sorts of things your foot is close to the ground.
20:12.533 --> 20:37.765
[SPEAKER_01]: But because there's no support behind your heel, it's actually like over-activating the muscles in the arch of your foot, and so which is why if you've ever gone on vacation or been somewhere in warm weather that you've had flip-flops on and unexpectedly walked further than expected, you're like, my arch hurts, my back hurts, my feet are like everything is falling apart, and they really are just designed to be like a slide on at the pool so you don't get to those shoes, what kind of situation.
20:38.420 --> 20:43.005
[SPEAKER_01]: But a minimal shoe, so we classified shoes in three categories, traditional shoes.
20:43.185 --> 20:44.947
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, everything goes on there.
20:44.987 --> 20:49.572
[SPEAKER_01]: Cowboy boots, high heels, you know, Nike running shoes, the data is hook up, whoever.
20:49.612 --> 20:57.861
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are traditional shoes, you know, they generally have a bit of a stack under your heel, a narrow toe box or a tapered toe box, God forbid a stiletto.
20:57.921 --> 21:00.764
[SPEAKER_01]: You heard it here first stiletto is the new smoking.
21:00.844 --> 21:02.706
[SPEAKER_01]: Please save yourselves.
21:02.686 --> 21:07.232
[SPEAKER_01]: Save yourselves ladies, but a traditional shoe is sort of the shoes in that category.
21:07.673 --> 21:12.619
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we have what we call a functional shoe, and a functional shoe has some characteristics that are really important.
21:13.000 --> 21:15.864
[SPEAKER_01]: The first wide tow box, it's shaped like your foot.
21:16.645 --> 21:22.753
[SPEAKER_01]: The second is that lower stack height under the heel, so your heel is not propped up compared to the ball of your foot.
21:22.733 --> 21:24.558
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the third is minimal cushion.
21:24.698 --> 21:37.232
[SPEAKER_01]: And so a brand who sort of threads that divide really well as ultra running, they are one of the first walking and running shoe brands who created that wider toe box and our less cushion less over engineering.
21:37.567 --> 21:40.032
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the third category, like you mentioned, is the minimal shoot.
21:40.072 --> 21:43.257
[SPEAKER_01]: And a minimal shoot is wide tow box, zero drop.
21:43.298 --> 21:46.223
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you hear the term zero drop, it means it is totally flat.
21:46.243 --> 21:48.307
[SPEAKER_01]: And then zero to no cushion.
21:48.327 --> 21:50.711
[SPEAKER_01]: So like you could twist it, you can roll it up and fold it.
21:51.152 --> 21:58.225
[SPEAKER_01]: A brand a lot of people are familiar with there would be vivo, barefoot, or zero are two of the shoe shoe companies that are pretty big there.
21:58.205 --> 21:59.726
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's three categories, right?
21:59.746 --> 22:07.233
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you've got a stiletto, traditional, if you've got something in that wide toe box kind of minimal functional, and then middle range is gonna be functional.
22:07.453 --> 22:22.887
[SPEAKER_01]: And then a minimal shoe is like you're talking about five fingers, zero, barefoot, lambs, there's a bunch, there's a couple of brands on Amazon, there's one called Whitten that if people are considering like trying out a more minimal shoe, super duper affordable, they're under 50 bucks.
22:22.907 --> 22:28.212
[SPEAKER_01]: And can just really get you that wide toe box flat shoe
22:28.192 --> 22:37.184
[SPEAKER_01]: But the trick with those, and I bet a lot of your listeners have experienced this if they've tried shoes like that You have to earn the progression into that shoe.
22:37.344 --> 22:54.486
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you just go buy one and you're like, I'm gonna go walk around New York City You're gonna end up in my office or courties office because you're gonna have heel pain or archfay and or back pain or something You have to gain the strength and the mobility for that third category of shoes that minimal shoe and so it's definitely something where
22:54.466 --> 22:56.369
[SPEAKER_01]: As a consumer, it's confusing, right?
22:56.409 --> 23:00.557
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you've got the Hocus Store next to the Brightling Store in London, right?
23:00.597 --> 23:04.904
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we're talking big budgets, big bucks, huge real estate presence, type thing.
23:05.425 --> 23:06.908
[SPEAKER_01]: I work out in New York City part of the time.
23:06.948 --> 23:09.833
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a multi-storey Hocus Store in Midtown.
23:09.853 --> 23:11.255
[SPEAKER_01]: That's very close to my office.
23:11.997 --> 23:13.159
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not picking on Hocus, either.
23:13.219 --> 23:18.448
[SPEAKER_01]: Just a great example of, like, you know, this sort of engineered shoe revolution.
23:18.428 --> 23:23.920
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is, is something that is a consumer, you sort of have to be like, wait a minute, this shoe isn't really shaped like my foot.
23:24.181 --> 23:35.526
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I'm going to say I'm going to do a lot of distance or volume in it, it might be worth considering matching a shoe to the anatomy so your foot can work with its greatest bio mechanics and health.
23:43.235 --> 23:47.321
[SPEAKER_00]: I think people don't realize the correlation between longevity and foot health.
23:47.381 --> 23:50.926
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm even just thinking about how important balance plays and us not falling.
23:50.966 --> 23:53.991
[SPEAKER_00]: So then we have to brace ourselves and we break a risk and we break a hip.
23:54.051 --> 24:00.420
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, but I think that we just discount again, the benefit of something that actually is such a massive.
24:00.460 --> 24:04.886
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, your feet, I don't want to say any or everything because I don't want someone listening that doesn't have a foot.
24:05.067 --> 24:05.968
[SPEAKER_00]: So how do I?
24:05.948 --> 24:08.716
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to offend people that are listening with me.
24:08.776 --> 24:09.177
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
24:09.197 --> 24:14.853
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I mean, if you have a foot, it influences, and if you're walking up right, it influences your total health.
24:14.933 --> 24:18.523
[SPEAKER_01]: So your total health is greatly influenced by that foot health.
24:18.841 --> 24:20.342
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
24:20.382 --> 24:24.846
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Melissa, is there anything else that you want to share with the listeners?
24:25.006 --> 24:26.948
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we've talked about the mental health benefits.
24:27.128 --> 24:31.372
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we didn't talk about that as much, because I think that I have had some other episodes.
24:31.592 --> 24:39.018
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if there's anything else you want to speak to about mental health, about some of you talk about movements, snacks, and your book that's just kind of, oh, yeah.
24:39.659 --> 24:41.160
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we can finish on that.
24:41.180 --> 24:47.145
[SPEAKER_00]: Because again, I think when we're looking at where we can add these things, and it's like every little bit count, so I'll let you start.
24:47.165 --> 24:47.886
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
24:49.132 --> 24:54.298
[SPEAKER_01]: So, a movement snack is just an any-bitty little breath of fresh air.
24:54.418 --> 24:55.980
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little dab of movement.
24:56.040 --> 24:59.824
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a drop of, you know, water in the ocean.
24:59.924 --> 25:01.106
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a tiny commitment.
25:01.146 --> 25:03.609
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's call it like the speed dating movement.
25:03.669 --> 25:05.951
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to take very long, and if it doesn't go well, you can move on.
25:06.712 --> 25:09.555
[SPEAKER_01]: But a movement snack is something that your body cramps.
25:09.615 --> 25:15.342
[SPEAKER_01]: So, those of you who work or sit in your professional or your recreational pursuits,
25:15.322 --> 25:20.132
[SPEAKER_01]: You know how you suddenly start to get kind of restless or if you're on an airplane, you're like, man, I gotta get out of here, I need to move around.
25:20.573 --> 25:23.118
[SPEAKER_01]: Your body is craving movement, your body is telling you.
25:23.138 --> 25:25.583
[SPEAKER_01]: When you start to get restless, I need a change.
25:25.703 --> 25:29.150
[SPEAKER_01]: I either need a change of scenery, a change of focus, a change of position, right?
25:29.832 --> 25:31.295
[SPEAKER_01]: And a movement stack is just that.
25:31.395 --> 25:36.385
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just this little, itty-bitty, low-commitment thing you can do that's gonna have a huge impact.
25:36.365 --> 25:43.834
[SPEAKER_01]: So one of the movements snacks we talk about in the book is looking at your foot awareness and just how your feet move.
25:43.934 --> 25:50.221
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I would challenge everybody who's listening right now, take off your shoot and socks, set with your feet flat on the floor.
25:50.682 --> 25:54.967
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I want you to do is I want you to try to spread out your toes as much as you can, like, will frog.
25:55.127 --> 25:57.570
[SPEAKER_01]: Think like Gecko, like, you know, the Gecko from Gecko.
25:57.970 --> 26:02.676
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you open up those toes and spread them out so you can see space between each toe?
26:02.943 --> 26:08.390
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a condition we call Toastplay, and we want our toes to be able to open up and play.
26:08.970 --> 26:15.899
[SPEAKER_01]: Just think if you are standing with those toes, all spread out is your balance better or worse, and if your toes are all smashed together, obviously it's gonna be better.
26:16.599 --> 26:20.825
[SPEAKER_01]: So, a movement snack that you can play with throughout the day is called Lift Spread Reach.
26:21.345 --> 26:25.010
[SPEAKER_01]: The first thing you're gonna do is you're gonna lift up all of your toes, so they're not touching the floor.
26:25.570 --> 26:32.899
[SPEAKER_01]: Then you're gonna spread them out and then reach about like a spider and then relax.
26:32.879 --> 26:50.176
[SPEAKER_01]: What that does is it starts working on your mind-body connection of foot-to-brain over time that can help activate the muscles in your feet, over time that can help counteract if you're someone who has worn fashion shoes either because you chose to or perhaps you had a uniform that required them.
26:50.656 --> 27:02.548
[SPEAKER_01]: We both worked with a lot of flight attendants and folks with military and people that were required to wear a high heel or even up-tump in some cases that really have significant effects
27:02.528 --> 27:10.179
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that lifts spread reach exercise is just a really great way to sort of wake up your foot, warm up your foot, and start kind of thinking about, what can my foot do?
27:10.219 --> 27:13.363
[SPEAKER_01]: The second level of that is called tooyoga.
27:13.383 --> 27:17.850
[SPEAKER_01]: And tooyoga is one of those things that if you play with it, you can't do it, suddenly you'll become obsessed.
27:18.511 --> 27:24.860
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the idea behind it is again, if you're sitting with your feet on the floor, you want to try to lift up just big toe and nobody else.
27:25.761 --> 27:30.848
[SPEAKER_01]: And you want to do that without clawing all the other toes into the ground in order to lift the big toe.
27:31.030 --> 27:42.864
[SPEAKER_01]: What we teach is the patients a lot of them can do it on one side, but not the other, and then you'll start talking to them and they'll say, Oh, well, I spring my ankle a bunch in high school or I've had an old injury or, you know, I have some frost fight on that foot or whatever.
27:43.705 --> 27:53.477
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, Toe yoga is big toe lift, everybody else relaxes, then the challenging one that most people struggle with is big toe goes down and you try to lift everyone else.
27:54.098 --> 27:55.960
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I have my shoes off right now.
27:55.980 --> 27:56.721
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm playing with this.
27:56.741 --> 28:00.345
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've got big toe up and then I go big toe down and everybody else lift.
28:00.325 --> 28:05.634
[SPEAKER_01]: And some days my left foot lags a little bit behind my right, but today they're both like the pretty awake, which is great.
28:05.674 --> 28:06.936
[SPEAKER_01]: I've gotten minimal shoes on today.
28:07.557 --> 28:13.326
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you go big toe down, everybody up, everybody up, big toe down, and then flip, big toe up, everybody down.
28:13.727 --> 28:14.668
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's called toe yoga.
28:14.688 --> 28:15.910
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a snack, right?
28:15.950 --> 28:26.147
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you work in an office or maybe you're a mom that's at home, but you've got, you know, you're doing some computer work throughout the day, whatever, if you're somebody who's sitting in front of a computer has that kind of
28:26.127 --> 28:32.031
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really a good challenge and it's something you can really quickly, if you play with it, start to see him prove that.
28:32.453 --> 28:33.417
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, why does it matter?
28:33.598 --> 28:36.610
[SPEAKER_01]: Because Wingling your toes is not a great party trick.
28:36.826 --> 28:41.252
[SPEAKER_01]: having that differentiation and that dexterity demonstrates.
28:41.272 --> 28:50.203
[SPEAKER_01]: Your brain is connected to your foot, so we're helping to re-engage, kind of like you're talking about with grounding, especially if we've had a history wearing tighter shoes or shoes that are rigid.
28:50.844 --> 28:54.649
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it also starts to wake up all those muscles that help co-contract pelvic floor.
28:55.330 --> 29:04.622
[SPEAKER_01]: And so those are two of the things that I would just recommend to anyone playing with the lift, spread reach, little gecko toes, and then the toe yoga where you go,
29:04.602 --> 29:07.646
[SPEAKER_01]: And then big toe down, everybody else up and just playing with it.
29:07.666 --> 29:11.972
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like reminding your body of that connection is just so valuable.
29:12.012 --> 29:16.598
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think a lot of times when we teach people that, especially men, they're like, everybody can do this.
29:17.159 --> 29:19.542
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you ask them to take off their shoes and thoughts and they struggle.
29:19.643 --> 29:22.046
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they're like, all right, wait, I want to figure out how to do this.
29:22.066 --> 29:23.688
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's really fun.
29:23.848 --> 29:27.994
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's something that can really help boost that, you know, connection about part of your body.
29:29.965 --> 29:32.830
[SPEAKER_00]: random maybe personal question for me here at the end.
29:33.631 --> 29:36.456
[SPEAKER_00]: I will sometimes get Charlie horses in my feet.
29:36.476 --> 29:38.059
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, guys, it's so bad.
29:38.840 --> 29:40.182
[SPEAKER_00]: What is causing that?
29:40.282 --> 29:43.127
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's overwalking underwalking, whatever it is.
29:43.207 --> 29:43.888
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not fun.
29:44.710 --> 29:46.353
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm going to ask you a trivia question.
29:46.954 --> 29:47.495
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, gosh, okay.
29:47.515 --> 29:48.797
[SPEAKER_01]: What, what size should you wear?
29:49.899 --> 29:50.880
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like a size 10.
29:51.702 --> 29:53.004
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, hey, same girls.
29:53.665 --> 29:54.927
[SPEAKER_01]: How long have you been a size 10?
29:55.868 --> 30:00.897
[SPEAKER_00]: I was more of a nine and a half until I had my third, and then once I had my third child, I went up.
30:00.957 --> 30:02.419
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've had him for six years.
30:02.459 --> 30:04.824
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll say between six and eight years, I've been a size two.
30:04.864 --> 30:05.945
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, between six and eight years.
30:06.246 --> 30:08.450
[SPEAKER_01]: So you said two really important things there.
30:08.830 --> 30:12.216
[SPEAKER_01]: One, that you're not wearing the same size as high school, right?
30:12.236 --> 30:15.282
[SPEAKER_01]: Because a lot of people are like, oh, I've been a 10, I've been a 10 since high school, right?
30:16.644 --> 30:21.252
[SPEAKER_01]: But, and but, you've said, in the last six or seven years.
30:21.923 --> 30:25.567
[SPEAKER_01]: 60% of adults are wearing a wrong size shoe.
30:25.827 --> 30:29.110
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I say wrong size, there's like phenomenal research supporting this.
30:29.511 --> 30:31.232
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not mine, it's other people's work.
30:31.773 --> 30:35.937
[SPEAKER_01]: Over 60% of adults are wearing a wrong size length shoe.
30:36.798 --> 30:39.621
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of funny, it's sort of auspicious, I think this year.
30:39.701 --> 30:48.049
[SPEAKER_01]: So the device that measures our feet like when you take kids to the shoe store or don't see the shoe store, that black and silver device is called a brand-like device.
30:48.029 --> 30:51.556
[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's hundredth year anniversary that thing has not changed in hundred years.
30:51.596 --> 30:55.844
[SPEAKER_01]: It was created in New York and it's sort of the gold standard for actual foot measurement.
30:56.665 --> 31:05.802
[SPEAKER_01]: So for most individuals, if you're getting some sort of cramping or Charlie Worsing, you may have a pair of shoes that is too short in length.
31:06.119 --> 31:17.611
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also something we spend a lot of time educating individuals about, is that a Nike 10 and a Didas 10, a Hoka 10, a Jimmy Chew 10, a Converse 10, are not all made on the same mold.
31:17.872 --> 31:21.462
[SPEAKER_01]: And so a 10 and one brand is not necessarily a 10 and another brand.
31:22.133 --> 31:25.418
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, you can have shoes that the models change, right?
31:25.458 --> 31:27.020
[SPEAKER_01]: So Brooks is a running shoe company.
31:27.100 --> 31:29.283
[SPEAKER_01]: One of their very famous running shoes is the ghost.
31:29.784 --> 31:32.087
[SPEAKER_01]: They're on probably ghost number 20 something right now.
31:32.428 --> 31:36.434
[SPEAKER_01]: But every couple years they go, it goes 16, goes 17, goes 18.
31:36.494 --> 31:39.518
[SPEAKER_01]: And when the models change, the structure changes.
31:39.633 --> 31:50.043
[SPEAKER_01]: So a PSA for everyone who's listening and especially mom because we're all struggling with kids feet changing really frequently right, but we can't forget that adult feet change too.
31:50.203 --> 31:55.428
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a great marker like you said, Oh, after my third baby, my feet changed, absolutely.
31:55.989 --> 32:02.135
[SPEAKER_01]: Weight gain, weight loss hormones, pregnancy, blood volume change, increase muscle, decrease muscle, medications.
32:02.175 --> 32:03.596
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a ton of reasons.
32:04.057 --> 32:09.522
[SPEAKER_01]: Your feet can get longer, shorter,
32:09.772 --> 32:11.975
[SPEAKER_01]: Check your foot size every year, check both feet.
32:12.716 --> 32:20.528
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes you might be differing by a half size to a full size, and then that means you'd want to go up to the next size when you purchase the shoe.
32:20.969 --> 32:27.258
[SPEAKER_01]: So to circle it back to your question, if you're getting Charlie Horses or camping, in most cases, you've got a pair of shoes that are a little short.
32:28.460 --> 32:33.568
[SPEAKER_01]: And, or, drink that water, boo, because it might be a dehydration question.
32:33.751 --> 32:35.694
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, cheers to that as I drink.
32:35.754 --> 32:37.097
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there you go, cheers to that, yes.
32:37.157 --> 32:38.619
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:38.639 --> 32:40.823
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, I think this is so important.
32:40.883 --> 32:43.407
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, your book is so full of information.
32:43.447 --> 32:46.092
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm interested in this kind of topic.
32:46.132 --> 32:49.798
[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like I've heard quite a bit, but this was blowing my mind with research.
32:49.818 --> 32:51.440
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, just interesting about the foot.
32:51.521 --> 32:54.125
[SPEAKER_00]: So I really appreciate you both taking the time to write it.
32:54.606 --> 32:58.392
[SPEAKER_00]: But for listeners that want to hear more learn more about you, where can they connect?
32:58.878 --> 33:03.422
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can connect with me on Instagram, Dr. Melissa McDowell, D.P.T.
33:03.562 --> 33:06.205
[SPEAKER_01]: I also have a website, which is just Melissa McDowell.com.
33:06.725 --> 33:12.771
[SPEAKER_01]: As you can see in the show notes, my first name is spelled in a unique, Slavic fashion, so M-I-L-I-C-A.
33:13.351 --> 33:19.177
[SPEAKER_01]: And then our book, baby, is her due date is May 5th, so SyncoDivaya, this year, which is so exciting.
33:19.957 --> 33:21.879
[SPEAKER_01]: You can buy anywhere books or you buy books.
33:21.919 --> 33:28.345
[SPEAKER_01]: So Amazon Target, Barnes and Noble, Walmart, all the places, your local independent booksellers
33:28.325 --> 33:31.430
[SPEAKER_01]: And we are going on a little bit of a book tour.
33:31.470 --> 33:35.998
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you check out our website, Courtney's website is gatehappens.com.
33:36.599 --> 33:38.723
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll be places you can connect with us in person.
33:38.803 --> 33:40.266
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to take people on walks.
33:40.306 --> 33:45.094
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to do some assessment of foot and gate and shoes and answer questions.
33:45.134 --> 33:47.077
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess it's going to be really wonderful.
33:47.198 --> 33:49.742
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're excited to meet folks from the community for sure.
33:50.397 --> 34:03.765
[SPEAKER_00]: absolutely well just quickly before we wrap things up I always have two questions here at the end just more rapid fire to get to know you a little bit better you can answer these however you want because I know there's somewhat broad but the first one is what has been a beneficial resource in your life that you want to share with the listeners.
34:04.117 --> 34:04.618
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
34:04.658 --> 34:07.884
[SPEAKER_01]: So my former boss, her name is Dr. Allison Evans.
34:08.525 --> 34:16.879
[SPEAKER_01]: She is a phenomenal leader in women's health and we work together at Rock Tafe, the communityology take company years ago.
34:17.380 --> 34:22.429
[SPEAKER_01]: But when Allison left for Rock Tafe, she started an amazing holistic health brand called Fringe.
34:22.409 --> 34:24.293
[SPEAKER_01]: and fringe offers products.
34:24.674 --> 34:28.341
[SPEAKER_01]: In most importantly, the red light products, I think are absolutely phenomenal.
34:28.982 --> 34:35.235
[SPEAKER_01]: She has red light products that are for skin and beauty, but she also has ones that are for like total body health and inflammation.
34:35.255 --> 34:38.161
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just admire her in so many ways.
34:38.221 --> 34:39.263
[SPEAKER_01]: She's incredible mom.
34:39.303 --> 34:40.666
[SPEAKER_01]: She has three amazing kids.
34:41.107 --> 34:44.333
[SPEAKER_01]: She's a businesswoman and she's doing good work in the world.
34:44.313 --> 34:46.617
[SPEAKER_01]: The products that she puts out are science-based.
34:46.817 --> 34:50.983
[SPEAKER_01]: They are very affordable compared to a lot of other light companies.
34:51.765 --> 35:00.799
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I really like about the way that she's structured her business is she is only creating products that use the bio-available wavelengths of light.
35:01.339 --> 35:06.367
[SPEAKER_01]: And so oftentimes you'll see light therapy products that boast like, oh, it has 15 colors of lighters in the night that.
35:07.008 --> 35:12.717
[SPEAKER_01]: And current research really tells us there's only four that actually matter.
35:12.697 --> 35:14.200
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some green light indications.
35:14.240 --> 35:20.531
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a little bit for a yellow, but she's somebody I absolutely admire and her work is just phenomenal.
35:20.591 --> 35:27.223
[SPEAKER_01]: She has an amazing team of female researchers and doctors that she works with and I just I think she's somebody that everyone should know.
35:27.343 --> 35:31.110
[SPEAKER_01]: So Dr. Alice and Evan that friend and just who I would I would say.
35:31.090 --> 35:31.752
[SPEAKER_00]: cool.
35:31.772 --> 35:35.402
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, be sure to link her and friends in the show notes for listeners if they want to check that out.
35:35.723 --> 35:38.631
[SPEAKER_00]: And then lastly, what is something that you can't stop talking about?
35:38.671 --> 35:44.527
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, this doesn't have to be about what we talked about today, anything that you in your personal life can't stop talking about.
35:44.547 --> 35:45.690
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's a good question.
35:47.088 --> 35:49.992
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the book baby has sort of taken my life for the last two years.
35:50.593 --> 35:58.263
[SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the things that I am talking about a lot in my personal life right now is how incredibly grateful I am for my husband and partner.
35:58.283 --> 36:14.766
[SPEAKER_01]: He, we've been together for 17 years and he is folding it together while this new phase of my professional career is launching and it's everything from just checking in with me when I'm on the road
36:15.421 --> 36:23.012
[SPEAKER_01]: We cross paths recently where I was coming home from a trip that he was gone and he had gone to the grocery and like filled the fridge and there were all sorts of things for me.
36:23.052 --> 36:24.374
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was one last thing I had to do.
36:24.414 --> 36:33.126
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just really brought into such a deep focus for me of being able to serve the ones you love, you know, and and.
36:33.106 --> 36:37.916
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been amazing to have such incredible support from him, his name's Paul, and I love him so much.
36:37.956 --> 36:39.359
[SPEAKER_01]: So we heart, thank you for everything you do.
36:39.379 --> 36:54.490
[SPEAKER_01]: If you ever listen to this, but it's just been, you know, after being a couple for many, many years and going through, you know, kids and different businesses and he sold a business last year and he has just been, absolutely, my rock and somebody who,
36:55.077 --> 37:02.408
[SPEAKER_01]: I just can't stop telling everyone how much he's helping and how his support is utterly paramount for the things I'm trying to do right now.
37:02.488 --> 37:08.477
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I would say, my husband is who I can't stop talking about, because I am madly in love with him and he's a wonderful partner.
37:08.497 --> 37:12.523
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's just holding it together for the both of us.
37:12.644 --> 37:16.950
[SPEAKER_01]: So I feel very lucky and very glad that he's on my team.
37:17.420 --> 37:18.961
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, that's really, really sweet.
37:19.422 --> 37:26.028
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think that especially in the season of writing a book and you're mothering if you don't have a support of partner during that time.
37:26.148 --> 37:29.211
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I feel like my husband took my kids to write my book like all the time.
37:29.451 --> 37:36.777
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm many hours at the playground and just yeah, you definitely, if you're in the season of motherhood and again, you're a professional and you're work that you're doing.
37:36.797 --> 37:37.638
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just really sweet.
37:38.819 --> 37:40.541
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I also want to point out just here at the end.
37:40.661 --> 37:42.923
[SPEAKER_00]: I absolutely love the cover of this book, Wah.
37:43.303 --> 37:43.544
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
37:43.564 --> 37:44.624
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
37:44.825 --> 37:47.427
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I tell you a couple of Easter eggs that are in there?
37:47.407 --> 38:03.981
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay, so there is a gentleman that has a prosthetic leg in the bottom right hand corner and She is a representation of a patient that Courtney and I shared it's our dear friend who was a pilot of a small plane that had crash
38:03.961 --> 38:26.914
[SPEAKER_01]: And so he that's representation of our friend Cal who is just an incredibly resilient person and he's a dad now and just he's a girl dad to oh my god, he's the sweetest girl that but he is just a wonderful person that we really wanted to celebrate and then the dog that is being walked in the center of the book when the design team presented them book to us it was a golden retriever.
38:26.894 --> 38:30.561
[SPEAKER_01]: And I had a wonderful golden doodle named Allos.
38:30.841 --> 38:31.783
[SPEAKER_01]: She passed away in 2025.
38:32.865 --> 38:34.628
[SPEAKER_01]: But the age of 12, she had amazing life.
38:35.289 --> 38:41.962
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I asked the public that says, the public should I say, hey, can we turn that into a black poodle as a tribute to my sweet girl Alliv?
38:42.102 --> 38:50.978
[SPEAKER_01]: And so they said, yes, and so we had a couple of fun, little Easter eggs that we tucked into the cover just as like little special stories like that.
38:51.177 --> 38:51.678
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
38:51.779 --> 38:52.521
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I love that.
38:52.621 --> 38:53.603
[SPEAKER_00]: It is so cute.
38:53.623 --> 38:55.869
[SPEAKER_00]: So I recommend it to people.
38:55.930 --> 39:02.848
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, it just going so much deeper than what we talked about here and had time for today, but I do appreciate you joining me and sharing with the listeners.
39:02.888 --> 39:03.389
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks so much.
39:03.991 --> 39:04.753
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me.
39:04.773 --> 39:06.638
[SPEAKER_01]: This has done a wonderful conversation.
39:07.478 --> 39:08.800
[SPEAKER_00]: What did you think of the episode?
39:09.020 --> 39:10.523
[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
39:10.543 --> 39:29.571
[SPEAKER_00]: To learn more about today's guest, including links, resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at minimalismomspodcast.com where you can find the entire podcast archive as well as my book Minimalismoms Living and Parenting with Simplicity, or other ways to connect or work with me online.
39:29.551 --> 39:41.287
[SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave a rating or review of your favorite episode.
39:41.948 --> 39:51.441
[SPEAKER_00]: Lastly, sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends and social media is very helpful and will encourage others on their journey to think more and do with less.
00:00.031 --> 00:13.534
[SPEAKER_00]: For those of you that are new around here, I released bonus episodes that serve a niche part of my audience, so if this content is something that doesn't fit what you're looking for, check out the other episodes that drop this week or join me back here next week for episodes that you don't want to miss.
00:14.695 --> 00:18.960
[SPEAKER_01]: and 10,000 is truly what an amazing myth that we're excited to bust.
00:19.601 --> 00:25.309
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a list over from a 1960s Japanese pedometer company's marketing campaign.
00:26.009 --> 00:27.992
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was around the Tokyo Olympics.
00:28.372 --> 00:30.495
[SPEAKER_01]: The device only ticked up to 10,000.
00:30.635 --> 00:32.618
[SPEAKER_01]: And so when you hit 10,000, it went back to zero.
00:33.139 --> 00:36.563
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the name of the device in Japanese was the 10,000 staff meter.
00:36.703 --> 00:40.568
[SPEAKER_01]: And so 10,000 was really, never based on science.
00:40.548 --> 00:43.955
[SPEAKER_00]: This is Diane Boden, and you're listening to the minimalist mom's podcast.
00:44.436 --> 00:52.333
[SPEAKER_00]: What if one of the most powerful tools through your health, longevity, and overall well-being is something you're already doing every day, but not quite optimally?
00:52.854 --> 01:00.430
[SPEAKER_00]: In today's episode, we're rethinking walking with expert backed insights that challenge common assumptions, including the 10,000 steps myth.
01:00.410 --> 01:12.704
[SPEAKER_00]: My guest, Dr. Melissa McDonough, and I explore how you're walking speed, cadence, and even foot health can reveal deeper truths about your body, and how small, simple shifts can reduce pain, improve energy, and support long-term health.
01:13.145 --> 01:17.490
[SPEAKER_00]: I will say, I'm sure there's a lot of you that have researched the benefits of walking for your health.
01:17.730 --> 01:22.776
[SPEAKER_00]: I know that I've done that, and yet this episode was full of information that I had never heard in my life.
01:23.016 --> 01:26.400
[SPEAKER_00]: So stick around even if this is something that you feel like you already know about.
01:26.380 --> 01:34.489
[SPEAKER_00]: Quickly before we get there, if you enjoy this conversation today, make sure you hit five stars, you're subscribed to the Minimal's Mom's Podcast, or share this episode with a friend that could benefit.
01:36.131 --> 01:38.934
[SPEAKER_00]: And with that, let's get into my conversation with Dr. Melissa McDowell.
01:42.018 --> 01:45.261
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Dr. Melissa McDowell, thank you so much for joining me.
01:45.321 --> 01:48.425
[SPEAKER_00]: We're going to be talking about your new book, it's called Walk.
01:48.825 --> 01:53.391
[SPEAKER_00]: Rediscover the most natural way to boost your health and longevity one step at a time.
01:53.611 --> 01:54.632
[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks for joining me.
01:55.085 --> 01:56.068
[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me on.
01:56.931 --> 01:57.372
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
01:57.753 --> 02:04.234
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so why don't you go ahead first and introduce yourself to the listeners and tell me about how this book came to be.
02:05.227 --> 02:32.061
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I am a physical therapist by training and spent many years working with individuals of all ages, mostly lower extremity-type problems, and my colleague and co-author Dr. Courtney Conley reached out to me two years ago and said, hey, I want to write a book and need your help, and I said, oh, great, because Courtney is this huge expert in
02:32.041 --> 02:39.594
[SPEAKER_01]: just everywhere, right, she's flying NFL teams and working with celebrities and just has this incredible practice that is all about foot health.
02:39.775 --> 02:40.877
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I said, oh, great.
02:40.897 --> 02:41.598
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm happy to help.
02:41.678 --> 02:44.142
[SPEAKER_01]: And that was sort of how the book got started.
02:44.283 --> 02:48.510
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's that old sort of joke, a character, a physical therapist walking to a bar.
02:49.111 --> 02:52.918
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was kind of like we walked into a book and tried to figure out what we were doing.
02:53.270 --> 02:55.573
[SPEAKER_01]: For me, walking has always been a part of my life.
02:55.673 --> 02:58.175
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm a mom, my daughter's that turned 21.
02:58.376 --> 02:59.937
[SPEAKER_01]: The week our book is born.
02:59.957 --> 03:04.382
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have a book, baby, being born and my real baby, turning 21.
03:04.623 --> 03:11.951
[SPEAKER_01]: And I started walking as a way to combat having a really time postpartum, a hard time postpartum.
03:12.431 --> 03:13.753
[SPEAKER_01]: I was also a triathlete.
03:13.773 --> 03:20.340
[SPEAKER_01]: So I thought, you know, I could manage some of my challenges in motherhood by just doing long distance activities.
03:20.320 --> 03:23.484
[SPEAKER_01]: really abusing my body and that I kind of kept coming back to.
03:23.524 --> 03:26.047
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe a walk is a better choice.
03:26.087 --> 03:33.296
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe some things that I can use to dial that nervous system down and take some time and space and breathe and connect with my loved ones.
03:33.857 --> 03:35.399
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's been a journey.
03:35.459 --> 03:40.185
[SPEAKER_01]: It's definitely been something that has been in the background throughout my entire career.
03:40.604 --> 03:41.585
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, absolutely.
03:41.625 --> 03:53.980
[SPEAKER_00]: The first question I would have for you is that I think that people overlook the importance of walking in their day to day, not just for exercise, but for mental health.
03:54.020 --> 03:55.963
[SPEAKER_00]: So maybe let's talk to the exercise piece.
03:56.403 --> 04:02.190
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that people don't see the benefit in how good just a simple walk outside can be.
04:03.098 --> 04:08.826
[SPEAKER_01]: Yep, from a physiologic standpoint, when you walk, you're activating almost every major system of your body.
04:09.167 --> 04:10.749
[SPEAKER_01]: Got nervous system.
04:11.250 --> 04:13.072
[SPEAKER_01]: You get increased blood flow to your brain.
04:13.192 --> 04:15.796
[SPEAKER_01]: You're strengthening your bones, you're toning your muscles.
04:16.357 --> 04:17.599
[SPEAKER_01]: You're gliding your fascia.
04:17.719 --> 04:19.301
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the list goes on and on.
04:19.421 --> 04:26.912
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, from a physiological perspective, you're doing yourself a huge favor, even if you walk for five minutes.
04:26.892 --> 04:29.435
[SPEAKER_01]: The mental health benefits are even more staggering.
04:29.615 --> 04:33.138
[SPEAKER_01]: We can improve cognitive clarity and clear thinking.
04:33.238 --> 04:34.540
[SPEAKER_01]: We can boost our mood.
04:34.680 --> 04:35.821
[SPEAKER_01]: We can be more creative.
04:36.462 --> 04:40.726
[SPEAKER_01]: It can improve your feelings of well-being and feeling whole.
04:40.946 --> 04:42.668
[SPEAKER_01]: Reduce symptoms of anxiety and depression.
04:42.708 --> 04:45.871
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's sort of like the vitamin nobody's taking.
04:45.931 --> 04:47.933
[SPEAKER_01]: It's one of those things that's right at our fingertips.
04:48.053 --> 04:51.517
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the message is really let's rediscover this.
04:51.557 --> 04:52.358
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's reclaim it.
04:52.378 --> 04:53.659
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's take it back.
04:53.639 --> 05:04.830
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't have to have a $300 month gym membership to be healthy, you can take some of that immediately today and just walk out your front door and and take some steps toward improving your health.
05:07.139 --> 05:12.005
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, so I'm sure a lot of listeners have heard the idea of the 10,000 step rule.
05:13.007 --> 05:17.893
[SPEAKER_00]: I feel like it went up 5,000 steps from when and when I maybe first heard that 15 years ago.
05:17.933 --> 05:24.221
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, between 5 and 10,000 steps seems to be optimal for all types of health.
05:24.241 --> 05:25.603
[SPEAKER_00]: What is true about that?
05:25.844 --> 05:26.685
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it one or the other?
05:26.745 --> 05:28.066
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it lowers higher?
05:28.107 --> 05:29.248
[SPEAKER_00]: What is the reason?
05:29.228 --> 05:30.310
[SPEAKER_00]: It's a great question.
05:30.350 --> 05:49.667
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, the research says it's like an all-acart menu at your favorite restaurant and so there's something for everyone the absolute basement if you are heavily inactive if you've just had a see section if you've just had a totally replacement if you've just got in a car accident or you've been deconditioned with some systematic disease for years.
05:49.647 --> 05:52.312
[SPEAKER_01]: basement basement basement 20 500 steps a day.
05:52.953 --> 06:04.334
[SPEAKER_01]: If you're below that, that's where all health breaks loose and you can end up with all sorts of, you know, early death risks from cardiovascular disease, our mental health disorders, our cancers, those sorts of things.
06:04.375 --> 06:08.382
[SPEAKER_01]: So we really Trump it, 2500 a greater.
06:08.362 --> 06:09.764
[SPEAKER_01]: But you're right, 5,000.
06:09.824 --> 06:12.067
[SPEAKER_01]: There's all kinds of benefits at 5,000.
06:12.107 --> 06:16.093
[SPEAKER_01]: So at 5,000, you start to reduce the risk of seven major types of cancers.
06:16.113 --> 06:20.299
[SPEAKER_01]: 5,500 is where you start to reduce symptoms of depression.
06:20.319 --> 06:24.285
[SPEAKER_01]: 7,500 is where you can reduce your risk of ever-developing depression.
06:24.325 --> 06:30.454
[SPEAKER_01]: For most adults, cardiovascular improvements occur between 7,500 and 8,500.
06:30.434 --> 06:34.784
[SPEAKER_01]: and 10,000 is truly one of those amazing myths that we're excited to bust.
06:35.405 --> 06:43.784
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a leftover from 1960s Japanese pedometer companies marketing campaign and it was around the Tokyo Olympics.
06:44.165 --> 06:48.595
[SPEAKER_01]: The device only ticked up to 10,000 and so when you hit 10,000 it went back to zero.
06:48.575 --> 06:52.461
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the name of the device in Japanese was the 10,000 stop meter.
06:52.481 --> 06:55.927
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, you know, 10,000 was really, never based on science.
06:56.227 --> 07:00.694
[SPEAKER_01]: There is some research in the dementia literature that's in the 9,000s to reduce risk of dementia.
07:01.235 --> 07:04.941
[SPEAKER_01]: But you write, 10,000 is just an unapproachable number for a lot of people.
07:04.981 --> 07:06.203
[SPEAKER_01]: It can be discouraging.
07:06.644 --> 07:12.473
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, we really want people to hear the message that if you're above 2500, you are doing amazing.
07:12.453 --> 07:15.336
[SPEAKER_01]: The 5K number is a great daily goal.
07:15.817 --> 07:19.040
[SPEAKER_01]: That's 7,000 plus if you're looking for some specific benefits.
07:19.120 --> 07:21.183
[SPEAKER_01]: And 10K, it's old news.
07:21.803 --> 07:22.684
[SPEAKER_00]: OK, interesting.
07:23.405 --> 07:26.709
[SPEAKER_00]: I was going to check how many steps I've been getting because I know it's nowhere near what I used to get.
07:26.949 --> 07:29.572
[SPEAKER_00]: But I've been prioritizing Pilates over a week.
07:30.313 --> 07:36.079
[SPEAKER_00]: And I feel like sometimes if I get up and do a 6am Pilates class, by 8 o'clock when I used to walk, I'm too tired.
07:36.120 --> 07:41.025
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, well, I've already moved my body, so it's OK. What's my question here?
07:41.140 --> 07:47.548
[SPEAKER_00]: I think some of us are like, well, I'm already active, so I don't need to go walk and yet, what is your thoughts on anything that I've said so far?
07:47.928 --> 07:51.353
[SPEAKER_01]: Now I love that and I hear people say those sorts of things all the time.
07:51.433 --> 07:56.819
[SPEAKER_01]: It's the 6am Pilates class, it's the 9am Monny and me, it's the Iron 5K this morning.
07:56.859 --> 08:02.546
[SPEAKER_01]: You still have to walk, take your vitamin, brush your teeth, drink your water girl, and walk.
08:02.766 --> 08:08.093
[SPEAKER_01]: And if we stop characterizing it as an exercise and more as
08:08.073 --> 08:11.239
[SPEAKER_01]: eating a physiological need that your body wants.
08:11.840 --> 08:19.294
[SPEAKER_01]: Your body wants to breathe, your body wants to sleep, your body battle for millions of years to have the right to walk up, right?
08:19.334 --> 08:23.922
[SPEAKER_01]: And because of how the rhythmic nature of walking
08:23.902 --> 08:27.626
[SPEAKER_01]: influences our physiological and our cognitive neurological systems.
08:28.206 --> 08:30.068
[SPEAKER_01]: It's something your body craves.
08:30.289 --> 08:38.257
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, a six-hand employees class is phenomenal, lengthening mobility, strengthening community, all of those pieces, 100%.
08:38.918 --> 08:41.340
[SPEAKER_01]: But it kind of doesn't give you a free pass on the walking.
08:41.420 --> 08:47.507
[SPEAKER_01]: So, what I like to say, it's a yes and yes, Pilates, yes, pickleball, yes, crossfit, yes to run a 5k.
08:48.488 --> 08:50.770
[SPEAKER_01]: And let's get those steps.
08:50.750 --> 08:52.432
[SPEAKER_01]: ingrained in your lifestyle.
08:52.572 --> 09:10.336
[SPEAKER_01]: And for busy moms, we have an entire chapter that's about time management, and we talk about, we're both moms, we're both busy, we both have practices, we wrote a book, we were doing all these things, we both moved in the year that we were writing, and so it's a real concern for people like, where am I going to stick this?
09:10.396 --> 09:11.998
[SPEAKER_01]: I have so many other things to do.
09:12.282 --> 09:12.663
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
09:13.083 --> 09:16.428
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, absolutely have them check out that chapter if they're going to pick up the book.
09:16.868 --> 09:18.430
[SPEAKER_00]: But my next thought about that.
09:18.511 --> 09:21.555
[SPEAKER_00]: So you mentioned like maybe they already went on a 5K run.
09:21.595 --> 09:23.177
[SPEAKER_00]: They ran this morning.
09:23.537 --> 09:28.264
[SPEAKER_00]: Yet you should still walk and get those extra steps in or just the steps in general.
09:28.704 --> 09:31.969
[SPEAKER_00]: So are you suggesting there's a pace that we should be walking?
09:32.029 --> 09:35.674
[SPEAKER_00]: Also, it's too slow or am I supposed to hit a certain pace?
09:36.042 --> 09:38.568
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's a question that Courtney and I get asked a ton.
09:38.768 --> 09:40.372
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like, what's the right way to do this?
09:40.472 --> 09:41.395
[SPEAKER_01]: Give us the prescription.
09:42.076 --> 09:45.504
[SPEAKER_01]: As far as pace goes, the average normal sized human.
09:45.564 --> 09:47.609
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're not four foot one, you're not seven foot one.
09:48.030 --> 09:54.726
[SPEAKER_01]: Those of us that are kind of in the middle of the size range, most of us walk between 80 and 100 steps a minute is our comfortable pace.
09:54.706 --> 09:56.890
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I travel a ton for my job.
09:57.271 --> 10:01.440
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say that's like strolling through the airport, you're not in a rush, they're not boarding your gate.
10:01.460 --> 10:02.101
[SPEAKER_01]: You're just walking.
10:02.321 --> 10:03.183
[SPEAKER_01]: Just walk, it's fine.
10:03.844 --> 10:09.496
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, if we're like, hey, our gate's calling, they're calling our last names.
10:09.616 --> 10:11.079
[SPEAKER_01]: We are all way down the terminal.
10:11.520 --> 10:15.668
[SPEAKER_01]: That brisk walk from most of us, 120 to 130.
10:15.648 --> 10:32.712
[SPEAKER_01]: Easiest way to test that, take your watch, give yourself a 30 second count every step on your comfortable pace, like I'm not late for a plane, and then when you want to see what your more brisk pace is, if you can hit that 120 or 130, same deal, 30 seconds on the watch, count every step.
10:32.692 --> 10:50.346
[SPEAKER_01]: And what we know is for those of us that want to get some fat burning benefit, get into zone two from a physiology standpoint that 120 to 130 is typically the cadence that's used in most of the research studies and where we see the largest amount of benefit.
10:50.562 --> 11:07.913
[SPEAKER_01]: And what's funny about that, zone two and zone through a little bit of a term that gets thrown around a lot in, you know, all sorts of health influencers and scientists and doctors like, oh, do zone two for this do zone three for that the easiest way to tell if you're in zone three is it's really hard to talk.
11:07.893 --> 11:15.544
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you're doing an activity, breathing and talking, and it's difficult, you've crested over it as three, and three is a great training zone too.
11:15.624 --> 11:21.132
[SPEAKER_01]: For walking, you could do all sorts of activities in zone three, but you're getting more cardiovascular training benefit.
11:22.013 --> 11:28.703
[SPEAKER_01]: If you dial it down just to click to where we can still talk, we can still breathe, but we're walking, but we're kind of like late for an airplane.
11:28.683 --> 11:51.400
[SPEAKER_01]: That zone two is where you start shifting your fuel burn, a little more fat, little less carb, that's where some of the body composition changes will happen, and people love that, because it's low intensity, you're not pounding, you're not running, you're not rocking, you're not doing things that are heavy, but you're just being pretty cognizant of pace, and that zone two is sort of a sweet spot for those reasons.
11:51.380 --> 12:04.734
[SPEAKER_00]: In regards to time management, I think when someone hears, oh, I need to be getting between five and probably 7500 to hit these certain markers that I desire to hit, but I am just really not knowing where to put that in.
12:04.794 --> 12:06.396
[SPEAKER_00]: What's your encouragement there?
12:06.416 --> 12:09.399
[SPEAKER_00]: Because again, work moms, we're juggling many things, we're tired.
12:09.439 --> 12:15.025
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there a better time of day that you would recommend a newbie start to add a walk in?
12:15.005 --> 12:15.646
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
12:16.126 --> 12:18.569
[SPEAKER_01]: So there is good research on them.
12:18.609 --> 12:29.099
[SPEAKER_01]: The first thing in the morning and the last thing at night, but when you've got little kids or toddlers or babies or, you know, if you do have a partner, don't have a partner, sometimes maybe you're home alone before work, that's not realistic for a lot of us.
12:29.119 --> 12:33.984
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you have the luxury to knock it out first thing, I mean, go girl.
12:34.725 --> 12:39.510
[SPEAKER_01]: But if that's not realistic, the secret sauce is in this.
12:39.862 --> 12:41.724
[SPEAKER_01]: the swap and the stack.
12:42.645 --> 12:48.451
[SPEAKER_01]: So a swap is, I just sat 45 minutes scrolling through New York Times cooking.
12:48.671 --> 12:51.034
[SPEAKER_01]: I just checked everybody's Instagram from my high school class.
12:51.654 --> 12:56.800
[SPEAKER_01]: And one of the things we teach in the book is just to do a really authentic self assessment of how you're spending your time.
12:57.220 --> 12:59.623
[SPEAKER_01]: Your phone's gonna tell you how much time you spent on it.
12:59.683 --> 13:09.413
[SPEAKER_01]: You can sit down and look at a weekday, look at a week and I'd be like, wow, you know, I love reading the newspaper, but reading the newspaper turned into a deep dive into what Taylor Swift is up to.
13:09.393 --> 13:27.132
[SPEAKER_01]: So a switch or a swap is saying all right I know I spent 15 minutes messing around on social I'm gonna take that 15 minutes back and I'm gonna go do something that serves me a little bit more So I love I love that concept I love the swap or the switch I think that has just a lot of power it allows us to
13:27.112 --> 13:35.982
[SPEAKER_01]: be really sort of, you know, genuine about how we're spending our time and think of ways we can maybe re-allocate it, and then the stack is just incredible.
13:36.082 --> 13:46.273
[SPEAKER_01]: And when Courtney and I were writing this book, we talked on the phone while both of us were walking our dogs almost daily, because it would be like, hey, chapter blah, blah, blah, oh, I was really struggling with this part about shoes.
13:46.353 --> 13:46.893
[SPEAKER_01]: What do you think?
13:47.334 --> 13:51.398
[SPEAKER_01]: And would be on our ear pods, and I'd be walking
13:51.378 --> 13:53.020
[SPEAKER_01]: So a stack is phenomenal.
13:53.120 --> 13:54.742
[SPEAKER_01]: I talk to my parents when I'm walking.
13:54.762 --> 13:56.905
[SPEAKER_01]: I listen to podcasts when I'm walking.
13:56.925 --> 14:00.710
[SPEAKER_01]: Once and a while I'll start dictating text to my husband and he's like, what are you?
14:00.810 --> 14:02.172
[SPEAKER_01]: What are you sending me in the grocery list?
14:02.192 --> 14:03.193
[SPEAKER_01]: He's like, what are these words?
14:03.254 --> 14:03.874
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't understand.
14:04.495 --> 14:05.677
[SPEAKER_01]: But I love a stack.
14:05.777 --> 14:10.483
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that that swapping or switching is a really powerful
14:10.463 --> 14:16.977
[SPEAKER_01]: ownership of your time and then a stack is just thing like look I got 10 minutes right now I'm going to do two things at once.
14:17.378 --> 14:26.278
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to have a conversation with somebody on the phone and I'm going to get my feet moving indoor outdoor doesn't matter if you're on a treadmill or walking pad at completely counts.
14:26.562 --> 14:28.966
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm so glad you said that because that was me me my next question.
14:29.046 --> 14:29.707
[SPEAKER_00]: I tried Mill.
14:30.348 --> 14:31.810
[SPEAKER_00]: But I used to have some of those roles.
14:31.850 --> 14:35.155
[SPEAKER_00]: It was mostly when I just had one child and I could take her to the gym with me.
14:35.776 --> 14:37.759
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I would just say this is my scroll time.
14:37.779 --> 14:39.842
[SPEAKER_00]: Or I'll watch the bachelor while I'm here.
14:40.002 --> 14:44.709
[SPEAKER_00]: Like I'm not going to watch Crash TV unless I'm moving my body doing something else.
14:44.729 --> 14:45.270
[SPEAKER_00]: It's amazing.
14:45.290 --> 14:46.472
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah.
14:46.772 --> 14:48.615
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm really glad you spoke to that because I wasn't sure.
14:48.655 --> 14:51.620
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, obviously, again, with the whole idea of grounding and being outside.
14:51.640 --> 14:53.042
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you have to be in your bare feet?
14:53.202 --> 14:53.903
[SPEAKER_00]: Do you even believe in
14:53.883 --> 14:55.565
[SPEAKER_01]: No, I do believe in grounding.
14:55.645 --> 14:56.306
[SPEAKER_01]: I love grounding.
14:56.346 --> 15:00.910
[SPEAKER_01]: I think our ability to reconnect with non-manmade services is so powerful.
15:01.351 --> 15:03.393
[SPEAKER_01]: My corporate job is in Houston, Texas.
15:03.593 --> 15:09.219
[SPEAKER_01]: And as I show right now, lovely people, great Mexican food, concrete, as far as the eye can see.
15:09.239 --> 15:15.125
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was really poignant the last time I got home from being in Texas for a week of work.
15:16.026 --> 15:17.848
[SPEAKER_01]: I was home in Montana.
15:17.828 --> 15:40.495
[SPEAKER_01]: then we have a little dog and I took her out to go potty and I walked across our man made surfaces where we live and then I walked into the grass and I was like, whoa, I haven't felt something soft under my feet in a week and it, this light bulb just turned out I was like, man, I gotta pay attention when I had an Texas to go and seek out those, those soft surfaces to like reconnect with the planet we're actually standing on.
15:40.715 --> 15:42.137
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, I think groundings amazing.
15:42.217 --> 15:44.039
[SPEAKER_01]: I love the electromagnetic fieldsides of it.
15:44.079 --> 15:45.861
[SPEAKER_01]: Like I think it's fascinating stuff.
15:45.841 --> 15:51.378
[SPEAKER_01]: But practicality wise, I want you to walk, however you have access.
15:51.438 --> 15:59.783
[SPEAKER_01]: So, if that means you're walking on a treadmill, if that means you're walking in Houston and a proper pair of shoes, if that means you have the luxury to walk on a beach or a grass.
15:59.999 --> 16:02.364
[SPEAKER_01]: All we want you to do is get your feet down.
16:02.384 --> 16:04.769
[SPEAKER_01]: The closer you are to the earth, the better.
16:04.809 --> 16:15.231
[SPEAKER_01]: There is some conversation in our book about hyper-engineered shoes and access cushion and all the fancy features that the shoe companies are trying to convince us all that we need.
16:15.892 --> 16:18.818
[SPEAKER_01]: But I just believe we need.
16:18.798 --> 16:31.634
[SPEAKER_01]: daily walking, just like a vitamin, treadmill's great, especially if you live somewhere where the weather's junkie is maybe unsafe, you only can go before or after work at Starch, like I live really far north, it's very dark where I live half the year.
16:31.694 --> 16:40.746
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's snow, there's ice, there's darkness, and a walking pattern of treadmill is a great way to to get that done, you know, get as much of the benefit as you have access to.
16:41.206 --> 16:47.995
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course, outdoors in the sun with red light coming from the sky, everything else with amazing, but kind of
16:48.970 --> 16:51.333
[SPEAKER_00]: I want to talk about foot health and shoes.
16:51.413 --> 16:54.397
[SPEAKER_00]: You did mention the various shoes that were being sold these days.
16:54.457 --> 16:55.238
[SPEAKER_00]: The barefoot shoe.
16:55.298 --> 16:57.020
[SPEAKER_00]: I did have a pair of those at one point.
16:57.681 --> 16:59.082
[SPEAKER_00]: I didn't really notice the difference.
16:59.102 --> 17:01.545
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes there's too much cushion or too little cushion.
17:01.866 --> 17:10.236
[SPEAKER_00]: I guess I don't really know the science behind it and how they can affect our walking habits or how we're getting it wrong when we're choosing these shoes.
17:10.638 --> 17:18.386
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I was in London recently and what really brought it home for me is next to a bright ring watch store that sells $20,000 watches.
17:18.867 --> 17:20.629
[SPEAKER_01]: There was a hook a shoe store.
17:21.149 --> 17:27.657
[SPEAKER_01]: And I was looking at this location just in my head thinking the store sells $20,000 items, right?
17:27.697 --> 17:30.760
[SPEAKER_01]: So the rent is outrageous as in this beautiful district of London.
17:31.160 --> 17:39.109
[SPEAKER_01]: And right next door is a place that sells $200 running shoes, which shows you the big business we're dealing with with mega shoe companies
17:39.089 --> 17:41.552
[SPEAKER_01]: So, here are some of the challenges.
17:41.893 --> 17:43.796
[SPEAKER_01]: Shoes have gotten overengineering.
17:43.976 --> 17:47.601
[SPEAKER_01]: They are doing a lot of the work that your body should be doing itself.
17:48.102 --> 17:59.458
[SPEAKER_01]: When you're in a shoe that is super cushioned and has like a very high stack height where your heel is popped up, the shoe is changing your mechanics and not for the better, necessarily, of your foot health.
18:00.038 --> 18:04.084
[SPEAKER_01]: The other thing that is a challenge right now is most walking and running shoes.
18:04.064 --> 18:06.286
[SPEAKER_01]: When you look down at them, they have a tapered toe box.
18:06.767 --> 18:09.009
[SPEAKER_01]: They don't have a foot shape in the toe box.
18:09.029 --> 18:17.137
[SPEAKER_01]: And so what happens when you put your foot in the shoe, your little toes are getting kind of smooshed together and they're touching, and they can't display.
18:17.197 --> 18:28.789
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you see a shoe that is foot shaped, and the widest part of the shoe is where your toes are, which matches your anatomy, because the widest part of your foot should be where your toes are.
18:28.769 --> 18:34.041
[SPEAKER_01]: that she allows your foot to play and it's critically important for moms and here's why.
18:34.081 --> 18:48.313
[SPEAKER_01]: When our toes are not being pinched together in a tapered shoe and we can play and open up those toes, we have better balance it reduces fall risk and it activates all the internal muscles in your foot.
18:48.715 --> 18:51.583
[SPEAKER_01]: Those muscles co-activate pelvic floor.
18:52.425 --> 19:03.737
[SPEAKER_01]: So the stronger your feet are, the more endurance you have in those wet muscles, that helps through those fashile chains and co-contraction of the lower body to support pelvic floor.
19:03.717 --> 19:23.914
[SPEAKER_01]: And any mom who's struggled, you know, postpartum or has any sort of pelvic issues and continents, any of that, strengthsening the foot and getting into a wide toe box shoe, a more minimal shoe, is a step in the right direction that helps you strengthen your feet anytime you have those shoes on.
19:24.094 --> 19:27.801
[SPEAKER_01]: And so it's, it is a untapped opportunity for a lot of moms.
19:28.743 --> 19:34.452
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, and then on the flip side, we grew up with old navy flip flops.
19:34.592 --> 19:35.954
[SPEAKER_00]: At least I did, I don't know if you did.
19:36.715 --> 19:38.879
[SPEAKER_00]: But yeah, we all were wearing them in high school.
19:39.560 --> 19:47.612
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just know I couldn't have that little of support at this point in time, but maybe I have that wrong as well.
19:48.419 --> 20:00.917
[SPEAKER_01]: A flip flap's a challenging shoe because in order to keep it on your foot, you sort of have to like claw your little toes and activate all the muscles in the arch of your foot to stay on the flip flap, otherwise when you step forward it would fly off the back.
20:01.658 --> 20:06.444
[SPEAKER_01]: And so flip flaps are funny because they sort of meet the requirements of a minimal shoe, right?
20:07.085 --> 20:12.553
[SPEAKER_01]: If it's not a wedge, it's flat, it's flexible, those sorts of things your foot is close to the ground.
20:12.533 --> 20:37.765
[SPEAKER_01]: But because there's no support behind your heel, it's actually like over-activating the muscles in the arch of your foot, and so which is why if you've ever gone on vacation or been somewhere in warm weather that you've had flip-flops on and unexpectedly walked further than expected, you're like, my arch hurts, my back hurts, my feet are like everything is falling apart, and they really are just designed to be like a slide on at the pool so you don't get to those shoes, what kind of situation.
20:38.420 --> 20:43.005
[SPEAKER_01]: But a minimal shoe, so we classified shoes in three categories, traditional shoes.
20:43.185 --> 20:44.947
[SPEAKER_01]: So like, everything goes on there.
20:44.987 --> 20:49.572
[SPEAKER_01]: Cowboy boots, high heels, you know, Nike running shoes, the data is hook up, whoever.
20:49.612 --> 20:57.861
[SPEAKER_01]: Those are traditional shoes, you know, they generally have a bit of a stack under your heel, a narrow toe box or a tapered toe box, God forbid a stiletto.
20:57.921 --> 21:00.764
[SPEAKER_01]: You heard it here first stiletto is the new smoking.
21:00.844 --> 21:02.706
[SPEAKER_01]: Please save yourselves.
21:02.686 --> 21:07.232
[SPEAKER_01]: Save yourselves ladies, but a traditional shoe is sort of the shoes in that category.
21:07.673 --> 21:12.619
[SPEAKER_01]: Then we have what we call a functional shoe, and a functional shoe has some characteristics that are really important.
21:13.000 --> 21:15.864
[SPEAKER_01]: The first wide tow box, it's shaped like your foot.
21:16.645 --> 21:22.753
[SPEAKER_01]: The second is that lower stack height under the heel, so your heel is not propped up compared to the ball of your foot.
21:22.733 --> 21:24.558
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the third is minimal cushion.
21:24.698 --> 21:37.232
[SPEAKER_01]: And so a brand who sort of threads that divide really well as ultra running, they are one of the first walking and running shoe brands who created that wider toe box and our less cushion less over engineering.
21:37.567 --> 21:40.032
[SPEAKER_01]: And then the third category, like you mentioned, is the minimal shoot.
21:40.072 --> 21:43.257
[SPEAKER_01]: And a minimal shoot is wide tow box, zero drop.
21:43.298 --> 21:46.223
[SPEAKER_01]: And when you hear the term zero drop, it means it is totally flat.
21:46.243 --> 21:48.307
[SPEAKER_01]: And then zero to no cushion.
21:48.327 --> 21:50.711
[SPEAKER_01]: So like you could twist it, you can roll it up and fold it.
21:51.152 --> 21:58.225
[SPEAKER_01]: A brand a lot of people are familiar with there would be vivo, barefoot, or zero are two of the shoe shoe companies that are pretty big there.
21:58.205 --> 21:59.726
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's three categories, right?
21:59.746 --> 22:07.233
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you've got a stiletto, traditional, if you've got something in that wide toe box kind of minimal functional, and then middle range is gonna be functional.
22:07.453 --> 22:22.887
[SPEAKER_01]: And then a minimal shoe is like you're talking about five fingers, zero, barefoot, lambs, there's a bunch, there's a couple of brands on Amazon, there's one called Whitten that if people are considering like trying out a more minimal shoe, super duper affordable, they're under 50 bucks.
22:22.907 --> 22:28.212
[SPEAKER_01]: And can just really get you that wide toe box flat shoe
22:28.192 --> 22:37.184
[SPEAKER_01]: But the trick with those, and I bet a lot of your listeners have experienced this if they've tried shoes like that You have to earn the progression into that shoe.
22:37.344 --> 22:54.486
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you just go buy one and you're like, I'm gonna go walk around New York City You're gonna end up in my office or courties office because you're gonna have heel pain or archfay and or back pain or something You have to gain the strength and the mobility for that third category of shoes that minimal shoe and so it's definitely something where
22:54.466 --> 22:56.369
[SPEAKER_01]: As a consumer, it's confusing, right?
22:56.409 --> 23:00.557
[SPEAKER_01]: Because you've got the Hocus Store next to the Brightling Store in London, right?
23:00.597 --> 23:04.904
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, we're talking big budgets, big bucks, huge real estate presence, type thing.
23:05.425 --> 23:06.908
[SPEAKER_01]: I work out in New York City part of the time.
23:06.948 --> 23:09.833
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a multi-storey Hocus Store in Midtown.
23:09.853 --> 23:11.255
[SPEAKER_01]: That's very close to my office.
23:11.997 --> 23:13.159
[SPEAKER_01]: And I'm not picking on Hocus, either.
23:13.219 --> 23:18.448
[SPEAKER_01]: Just a great example of, like, you know, this sort of engineered shoe revolution.
23:18.428 --> 23:23.920
[SPEAKER_01]: But it is, is something that is a consumer, you sort of have to be like, wait a minute, this shoe isn't really shaped like my foot.
23:24.181 --> 23:35.526
[SPEAKER_01]: And if I'm going to say I'm going to do a lot of distance or volume in it, it might be worth considering matching a shoe to the anatomy so your foot can work with its greatest bio mechanics and health.
23:43.235 --> 23:47.321
[SPEAKER_00]: I think people don't realize the correlation between longevity and foot health.
23:47.381 --> 23:50.926
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm even just thinking about how important balance plays and us not falling.
23:50.966 --> 23:53.991
[SPEAKER_00]: So then we have to brace ourselves and we break a risk and we break a hip.
23:54.051 --> 24:00.420
[SPEAKER_00]: And yeah, but I think that we just discount again, the benefit of something that actually is such a massive.
24:00.460 --> 24:04.886
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, your feet, I don't want to say any or everything because I don't want someone listening that doesn't have a foot.
24:05.067 --> 24:05.968
[SPEAKER_00]: So how do I?
24:05.948 --> 24:08.716
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't want to offend people that are listening with me.
24:08.776 --> 24:09.177
[SPEAKER_01]: Right.
24:09.197 --> 24:14.853
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, I mean, if you have a foot, it influences, and if you're walking up right, it influences your total health.
24:14.933 --> 24:18.523
[SPEAKER_01]: So your total health is greatly influenced by that foot health.
24:18.841 --> 24:20.342
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
24:20.382 --> 24:24.846
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, Melissa, is there anything else that you want to share with the listeners?
24:25.006 --> 24:26.948
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we've talked about the mental health benefits.
24:27.128 --> 24:31.372
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we didn't talk about that as much, because I think that I have had some other episodes.
24:31.592 --> 24:39.018
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if there's anything else you want to speak to about mental health, about some of you talk about movements, snacks, and your book that's just kind of, oh, yeah.
24:39.659 --> 24:41.160
[SPEAKER_00]: Maybe we can finish on that.
24:41.180 --> 24:47.145
[SPEAKER_00]: Because again, I think when we're looking at where we can add these things, and it's like every little bit count, so I'll let you start.
24:47.165 --> 24:47.886
[SPEAKER_00]: Absolutely.
24:49.132 --> 24:54.298
[SPEAKER_01]: So, a movement snack is just an any-bitty little breath of fresh air.
24:54.418 --> 24:55.980
[SPEAKER_01]: It's a little dab of movement.
24:56.040 --> 24:59.824
[SPEAKER_01]: It's like a drop of, you know, water in the ocean.
24:59.924 --> 25:01.106
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just a tiny commitment.
25:01.146 --> 25:03.609
[SPEAKER_01]: Let's call it like the speed dating movement.
25:03.669 --> 25:05.951
[SPEAKER_01]: It's not going to take very long, and if it doesn't go well, you can move on.
25:06.712 --> 25:09.555
[SPEAKER_01]: But a movement snack is something that your body cramps.
25:09.615 --> 25:15.342
[SPEAKER_01]: So, those of you who work or sit in your professional or your recreational pursuits,
25:15.322 --> 25:20.132
[SPEAKER_01]: You know how you suddenly start to get kind of restless or if you're on an airplane, you're like, man, I gotta get out of here, I need to move around.
25:20.573 --> 25:23.118
[SPEAKER_01]: Your body is craving movement, your body is telling you.
25:23.138 --> 25:25.583
[SPEAKER_01]: When you start to get restless, I need a change.
25:25.703 --> 25:29.150
[SPEAKER_01]: I either need a change of scenery, a change of focus, a change of position, right?
25:29.832 --> 25:31.295
[SPEAKER_01]: And a movement stack is just that.
25:31.395 --> 25:36.385
[SPEAKER_01]: It's just this little, itty-bitty, low-commitment thing you can do that's gonna have a huge impact.
25:36.365 --> 25:43.834
[SPEAKER_01]: So one of the movements snacks we talk about in the book is looking at your foot awareness and just how your feet move.
25:43.934 --> 25:50.221
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I would challenge everybody who's listening right now, take off your shoot and socks, set with your feet flat on the floor.
25:50.682 --> 25:54.967
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I want you to do is I want you to try to spread out your toes as much as you can, like, will frog.
25:55.127 --> 25:57.570
[SPEAKER_01]: Think like Gecko, like, you know, the Gecko from Gecko.
25:57.970 --> 26:02.676
[SPEAKER_01]: Can you open up those toes and spread them out so you can see space between each toe?
26:02.943 --> 26:08.390
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a condition we call Toastplay, and we want our toes to be able to open up and play.
26:08.970 --> 26:15.899
[SPEAKER_01]: Just think if you are standing with those toes, all spread out is your balance better or worse, and if your toes are all smashed together, obviously it's gonna be better.
26:16.599 --> 26:20.825
[SPEAKER_01]: So, a movement snack that you can play with throughout the day is called Lift Spread Reach.
26:21.345 --> 26:25.010
[SPEAKER_01]: The first thing you're gonna do is you're gonna lift up all of your toes, so they're not touching the floor.
26:25.570 --> 26:32.899
[SPEAKER_01]: Then you're gonna spread them out and then reach about like a spider and then relax.
26:32.879 --> 26:50.176
[SPEAKER_01]: What that does is it starts working on your mind-body connection of foot-to-brain over time that can help activate the muscles in your feet, over time that can help counteract if you're someone who has worn fashion shoes either because you chose to or perhaps you had a uniform that required them.
26:50.656 --> 27:02.548
[SPEAKER_01]: We both worked with a lot of flight attendants and folks with military and people that were required to wear a high heel or even up-tump in some cases that really have significant effects
27:02.528 --> 27:10.179
[SPEAKER_01]: And so that lifts spread reach exercise is just a really great way to sort of wake up your foot, warm up your foot, and start kind of thinking about, what can my foot do?
27:10.219 --> 27:13.363
[SPEAKER_01]: The second level of that is called tooyoga.
27:13.383 --> 27:17.850
[SPEAKER_01]: And tooyoga is one of those things that if you play with it, you can't do it, suddenly you'll become obsessed.
27:18.511 --> 27:24.860
[SPEAKER_01]: And so the idea behind it is again, if you're sitting with your feet on the floor, you want to try to lift up just big toe and nobody else.
27:25.761 --> 27:30.848
[SPEAKER_01]: And you want to do that without clawing all the other toes into the ground in order to lift the big toe.
27:31.030 --> 27:42.864
[SPEAKER_01]: What we teach is the patients a lot of them can do it on one side, but not the other, and then you'll start talking to them and they'll say, Oh, well, I spring my ankle a bunch in high school or I've had an old injury or, you know, I have some frost fight on that foot or whatever.
27:43.705 --> 27:53.477
[SPEAKER_01]: And so, Toe yoga is big toe lift, everybody else relaxes, then the challenging one that most people struggle with is big toe goes down and you try to lift everyone else.
27:54.098 --> 27:55.960
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I have my shoes off right now.
27:55.980 --> 27:56.721
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm playing with this.
27:56.741 --> 28:00.345
[SPEAKER_01]: So I've got big toe up and then I go big toe down and everybody else lift.
28:00.325 --> 28:05.634
[SPEAKER_01]: And some days my left foot lags a little bit behind my right, but today they're both like the pretty awake, which is great.
28:05.674 --> 28:06.936
[SPEAKER_01]: I've gotten minimal shoes on today.
28:07.557 --> 28:13.326
[SPEAKER_01]: And so you go big toe down, everybody up, everybody up, big toe down, and then flip, big toe up, everybody down.
28:13.727 --> 28:14.668
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's called toe yoga.
28:14.688 --> 28:15.910
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a snack, right?
28:15.950 --> 28:26.147
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you work in an office or maybe you're a mom that's at home, but you've got, you know, you're doing some computer work throughout the day, whatever, if you're somebody who's sitting in front of a computer has that kind of
28:26.127 --> 28:32.031
[SPEAKER_01]: It's really a good challenge and it's something you can really quickly, if you play with it, start to see him prove that.
28:32.453 --> 28:33.417
[SPEAKER_01]: Now, why does it matter?
28:33.598 --> 28:36.610
[SPEAKER_01]: Because Wingling your toes is not a great party trick.
28:36.826 --> 28:41.252
[SPEAKER_01]: having that differentiation and that dexterity demonstrates.
28:41.272 --> 28:50.203
[SPEAKER_01]: Your brain is connected to your foot, so we're helping to re-engage, kind of like you're talking about with grounding, especially if we've had a history wearing tighter shoes or shoes that are rigid.
28:50.844 --> 28:54.649
[SPEAKER_01]: And then it also starts to wake up all those muscles that help co-contract pelvic floor.
28:55.330 --> 29:04.622
[SPEAKER_01]: And so those are two of the things that I would just recommend to anyone playing with the lift, spread reach, little gecko toes, and then the toe yoga where you go,
29:04.602 --> 29:07.646
[SPEAKER_01]: And then big toe down, everybody else up and just playing with it.
29:07.666 --> 29:11.972
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like reminding your body of that connection is just so valuable.
29:12.012 --> 29:16.598
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think a lot of times when we teach people that, especially men, they're like, everybody can do this.
29:17.159 --> 29:19.542
[SPEAKER_01]: And then you ask them to take off their shoes and thoughts and they struggle.
29:19.643 --> 29:22.046
[SPEAKER_01]: And then they're like, all right, wait, I want to figure out how to do this.
29:22.066 --> 29:23.688
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think it's really fun.
29:23.848 --> 29:27.994
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's something that can really help boost that, you know, connection about part of your body.
29:29.965 --> 29:32.830
[SPEAKER_00]: random maybe personal question for me here at the end.
29:33.631 --> 29:36.456
[SPEAKER_00]: I will sometimes get Charlie horses in my feet.
29:36.476 --> 29:38.059
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, yeah, guys, it's so bad.
29:38.840 --> 29:40.182
[SPEAKER_00]: What is causing that?
29:40.282 --> 29:43.127
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if it's overwalking underwalking, whatever it is.
29:43.207 --> 29:43.888
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not fun.
29:44.710 --> 29:46.353
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, I'm going to ask you a trivia question.
29:46.954 --> 29:47.495
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, gosh, okay.
29:47.515 --> 29:48.797
[SPEAKER_01]: What, what size should you wear?
29:49.899 --> 29:50.880
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm like a size 10.
29:51.702 --> 29:53.004
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay, hey, same girls.
29:53.665 --> 29:54.927
[SPEAKER_01]: How long have you been a size 10?
29:55.868 --> 30:00.897
[SPEAKER_00]: I was more of a nine and a half until I had my third, and then once I had my third child, I went up.
30:00.957 --> 30:02.419
[SPEAKER_00]: So I've had him for six years.
30:02.459 --> 30:04.824
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll say between six and eight years, I've been a size two.
30:04.864 --> 30:05.945
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay, between six and eight years.
30:06.246 --> 30:08.450
[SPEAKER_01]: So you said two really important things there.
30:08.830 --> 30:12.216
[SPEAKER_01]: One, that you're not wearing the same size as high school, right?
30:12.236 --> 30:15.282
[SPEAKER_01]: Because a lot of people are like, oh, I've been a 10, I've been a 10 since high school, right?
30:16.644 --> 30:21.252
[SPEAKER_01]: But, and but, you've said, in the last six or seven years.
30:21.923 --> 30:25.567
[SPEAKER_01]: 60% of adults are wearing a wrong size shoe.
30:25.827 --> 30:29.110
[SPEAKER_01]: And when I say wrong size, there's like phenomenal research supporting this.
30:29.511 --> 30:31.232
[SPEAKER_01]: That's not mine, it's other people's work.
30:31.773 --> 30:35.937
[SPEAKER_01]: Over 60% of adults are wearing a wrong size length shoe.
30:36.798 --> 30:39.621
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's kind of funny, it's sort of auspicious, I think this year.
30:39.701 --> 30:48.049
[SPEAKER_01]: So the device that measures our feet like when you take kids to the shoe store or don't see the shoe store, that black and silver device is called a brand-like device.
30:48.029 --> 30:51.556
[SPEAKER_01]: It's it's hundredth year anniversary that thing has not changed in hundred years.
30:51.596 --> 30:55.844
[SPEAKER_01]: It was created in New York and it's sort of the gold standard for actual foot measurement.
30:56.665 --> 31:05.802
[SPEAKER_01]: So for most individuals, if you're getting some sort of cramping or Charlie Worsing, you may have a pair of shoes that is too short in length.
31:06.119 --> 31:17.611
[SPEAKER_01]: It's also something we spend a lot of time educating individuals about, is that a Nike 10 and a Didas 10, a Hoka 10, a Jimmy Chew 10, a Converse 10, are not all made on the same mold.
31:17.872 --> 31:21.462
[SPEAKER_01]: And so a 10 and one brand is not necessarily a 10 and another brand.
31:22.133 --> 31:25.418
[SPEAKER_01]: Also, you can have shoes that the models change, right?
31:25.458 --> 31:27.020
[SPEAKER_01]: So Brooks is a running shoe company.
31:27.100 --> 31:29.283
[SPEAKER_01]: One of their very famous running shoes is the ghost.
31:29.784 --> 31:32.087
[SPEAKER_01]: They're on probably ghost number 20 something right now.
31:32.428 --> 31:36.434
[SPEAKER_01]: But every couple years they go, it goes 16, goes 17, goes 18.
31:36.494 --> 31:39.518
[SPEAKER_01]: And when the models change, the structure changes.
31:39.633 --> 31:50.043
[SPEAKER_01]: So a PSA for everyone who's listening and especially mom because we're all struggling with kids feet changing really frequently right, but we can't forget that adult feet change too.
31:50.203 --> 31:55.428
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's a great marker like you said, Oh, after my third baby, my feet changed, absolutely.
31:55.989 --> 32:02.135
[SPEAKER_01]: Weight gain, weight loss hormones, pregnancy, blood volume change, increase muscle, decrease muscle, medications.
32:02.175 --> 32:03.596
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a ton of reasons.
32:04.057 --> 32:09.522
[SPEAKER_01]: Your feet can get longer, shorter,
32:09.772 --> 32:11.975
[SPEAKER_01]: Check your foot size every year, check both feet.
32:12.716 --> 32:20.528
[SPEAKER_01]: Sometimes you might be differing by a half size to a full size, and then that means you'd want to go up to the next size when you purchase the shoe.
32:20.969 --> 32:27.258
[SPEAKER_01]: So to circle it back to your question, if you're getting Charlie Horses or camping, in most cases, you've got a pair of shoes that are a little short.
32:28.460 --> 32:33.568
[SPEAKER_01]: And, or, drink that water, boo, because it might be a dehydration question.
32:33.751 --> 32:35.694
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, cheers to that as I drink.
32:35.754 --> 32:37.097
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, there you go, cheers to that, yes.
32:37.157 --> 32:38.619
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
32:38.639 --> 32:40.823
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, I think this is so important.
32:40.883 --> 32:43.407
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, your book is so full of information.
32:43.447 --> 32:46.092
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm interested in this kind of topic.
32:46.132 --> 32:49.798
[SPEAKER_00]: So I feel like I've heard quite a bit, but this was blowing my mind with research.
32:49.818 --> 32:51.440
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, just interesting about the foot.
32:51.521 --> 32:54.125
[SPEAKER_00]: So I really appreciate you both taking the time to write it.
32:54.606 --> 32:58.392
[SPEAKER_00]: But for listeners that want to hear more learn more about you, where can they connect?
32:58.878 --> 33:03.422
[SPEAKER_01]: So you can connect with me on Instagram, Dr. Melissa McDowell, D.P.T.
33:03.562 --> 33:06.205
[SPEAKER_01]: I also have a website, which is just Melissa McDowell.com.
33:06.725 --> 33:12.771
[SPEAKER_01]: As you can see in the show notes, my first name is spelled in a unique, Slavic fashion, so M-I-L-I-C-A.
33:13.351 --> 33:19.177
[SPEAKER_01]: And then our book, baby, is her due date is May 5th, so SyncoDivaya, this year, which is so exciting.
33:19.957 --> 33:21.879
[SPEAKER_01]: You can buy anywhere books or you buy books.
33:21.919 --> 33:28.345
[SPEAKER_01]: So Amazon Target, Barnes and Noble, Walmart, all the places, your local independent booksellers
33:28.325 --> 33:31.430
[SPEAKER_01]: And we are going on a little bit of a book tour.
33:31.470 --> 33:35.998
[SPEAKER_01]: So if you check out our website, Courtney's website is gatehappens.com.
33:36.599 --> 33:38.723
[SPEAKER_01]: They'll be places you can connect with us in person.
33:38.803 --> 33:40.266
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to take people on walks.
33:40.306 --> 33:45.094
[SPEAKER_01]: And we're going to do some assessment of foot and gate and shoes and answer questions.
33:45.134 --> 33:47.077
[SPEAKER_01]: And I guess it's going to be really wonderful.
33:47.198 --> 33:49.742
[SPEAKER_01]: So we're excited to meet folks from the community for sure.
33:50.397 --> 34:03.765
[SPEAKER_00]: absolutely well just quickly before we wrap things up I always have two questions here at the end just more rapid fire to get to know you a little bit better you can answer these however you want because I know there's somewhat broad but the first one is what has been a beneficial resource in your life that you want to share with the listeners.
34:04.117 --> 34:04.618
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
34:04.658 --> 34:07.884
[SPEAKER_01]: So my former boss, her name is Dr. Allison Evans.
34:08.525 --> 34:16.879
[SPEAKER_01]: She is a phenomenal leader in women's health and we work together at Rock Tafe, the communityology take company years ago.
34:17.380 --> 34:22.429
[SPEAKER_01]: But when Allison left for Rock Tafe, she started an amazing holistic health brand called Fringe.
34:22.409 --> 34:24.293
[SPEAKER_01]: and fringe offers products.
34:24.674 --> 34:28.341
[SPEAKER_01]: In most importantly, the red light products, I think are absolutely phenomenal.
34:28.982 --> 34:35.235
[SPEAKER_01]: She has red light products that are for skin and beauty, but she also has ones that are for like total body health and inflammation.
34:35.255 --> 34:38.161
[SPEAKER_01]: And I just admire her in so many ways.
34:38.221 --> 34:39.263
[SPEAKER_01]: She's incredible mom.
34:39.303 --> 34:40.666
[SPEAKER_01]: She has three amazing kids.
34:41.107 --> 34:44.333
[SPEAKER_01]: She's a businesswoman and she's doing good work in the world.
34:44.313 --> 34:46.617
[SPEAKER_01]: The products that she puts out are science-based.
34:46.817 --> 34:50.983
[SPEAKER_01]: They are very affordable compared to a lot of other light companies.
34:51.765 --> 35:00.799
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I really like about the way that she's structured her business is she is only creating products that use the bio-available wavelengths of light.
35:01.339 --> 35:06.367
[SPEAKER_01]: And so oftentimes you'll see light therapy products that boast like, oh, it has 15 colors of lighters in the night that.
35:07.008 --> 35:12.717
[SPEAKER_01]: And current research really tells us there's only four that actually matter.
35:12.697 --> 35:14.200
[SPEAKER_01]: There's some green light indications.
35:14.240 --> 35:20.531
[SPEAKER_01]: There's a little bit for a yellow, but she's somebody I absolutely admire and her work is just phenomenal.
35:20.591 --> 35:27.223
[SPEAKER_01]: She has an amazing team of female researchers and doctors that she works with and I just I think she's somebody that everyone should know.
35:27.343 --> 35:31.110
[SPEAKER_01]: So Dr. Alice and Evan that friend and just who I would I would say.
35:31.090 --> 35:31.752
[SPEAKER_00]: cool.
35:31.772 --> 35:35.402
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, be sure to link her and friends in the show notes for listeners if they want to check that out.
35:35.723 --> 35:38.631
[SPEAKER_00]: And then lastly, what is something that you can't stop talking about?
35:38.671 --> 35:44.527
[SPEAKER_00]: And again, this doesn't have to be about what we talked about today, anything that you in your personal life can't stop talking about.
35:44.547 --> 35:45.690
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, that's a good question.
35:47.088 --> 35:49.992
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, the book baby has sort of taken my life for the last two years.
35:50.593 --> 35:58.263
[SPEAKER_01]: I think one of the things that I am talking about a lot in my personal life right now is how incredibly grateful I am for my husband and partner.
35:58.283 --> 36:14.766
[SPEAKER_01]: He, we've been together for 17 years and he is folding it together while this new phase of my professional career is launching and it's everything from just checking in with me when I'm on the road
36:15.421 --> 36:23.012
[SPEAKER_01]: We cross paths recently where I was coming home from a trip that he was gone and he had gone to the grocery and like filled the fridge and there were all sorts of things for me.
36:23.052 --> 36:24.374
[SPEAKER_01]: So it was one last thing I had to do.
36:24.414 --> 36:33.126
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's just really brought into such a deep focus for me of being able to serve the ones you love, you know, and and.
36:33.106 --> 36:37.916
[SPEAKER_01]: It's been amazing to have such incredible support from him, his name's Paul, and I love him so much.
36:37.956 --> 36:39.359
[SPEAKER_01]: So we heart, thank you for everything you do.
36:39.379 --> 36:54.490
[SPEAKER_01]: If you ever listen to this, but it's just been, you know, after being a couple for many, many years and going through, you know, kids and different businesses and he sold a business last year and he has just been, absolutely, my rock and somebody who,
36:55.077 --> 37:02.408
[SPEAKER_01]: I just can't stop telling everyone how much he's helping and how his support is utterly paramount for the things I'm trying to do right now.
37:02.488 --> 37:08.477
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I would say, my husband is who I can't stop talking about, because I am madly in love with him and he's a wonderful partner.
37:08.497 --> 37:12.523
[SPEAKER_01]: And he's just holding it together for the both of us.
37:12.644 --> 37:16.950
[SPEAKER_01]: So I feel very lucky and very glad that he's on my team.
37:17.420 --> 37:18.961
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, that's really, really sweet.
37:19.422 --> 37:26.028
[SPEAKER_00]: I do think that especially in the season of writing a book and you're mothering if you don't have a support of partner during that time.
37:26.148 --> 37:29.211
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I feel like my husband took my kids to write my book like all the time.
37:29.451 --> 37:36.777
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm many hours at the playground and just yeah, you definitely, if you're in the season of motherhood and again, you're a professional and you're work that you're doing.
37:36.797 --> 37:37.638
[SPEAKER_00]: It's just really sweet.
37:38.819 --> 37:40.541
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I also want to point out just here at the end.
37:40.661 --> 37:42.923
[SPEAKER_00]: I absolutely love the cover of this book, Wah.
37:43.303 --> 37:43.544
[SPEAKER_00]: It is.
37:43.564 --> 37:44.624
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you.
37:44.825 --> 37:47.427
[SPEAKER_01]: Can I tell you a couple of Easter eggs that are in there?
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[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, okay, so there is a gentleman that has a prosthetic leg in the bottom right hand corner and She is a representation of a patient that Courtney and I shared it's our dear friend who was a pilot of a small plane that had crash
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so he that's representation of our friend Cal who is just an incredibly resilient person and he's a dad now and just he's a girl dad to oh my god, he's the sweetest girl that but he is just a wonderful person that we really wanted to celebrate and then the dog that is being walked in the center of the book when the design team presented them book to us it was a golden retriever.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And I had a wonderful golden doodle named Allos.
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[SPEAKER_01]: She passed away in 2025.
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[SPEAKER_01]: But the age of 12, she had amazing life.
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so I asked the public that says, the public should I say, hey, can we turn that into a black poodle as a tribute to my sweet girl Alliv?
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[SPEAKER_01]: And so they said, yes, and so we had a couple of fun, little Easter eggs that we tucked into the cover just as like little special stories like that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
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[SPEAKER_00]: No, I love that.
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[SPEAKER_00]: It is so cute.
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[SPEAKER_00]: So I recommend it to people.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Like I said, it just going so much deeper than what we talked about here and had time for today, but I do appreciate you joining me and sharing with the listeners.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Thanks so much.
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[SPEAKER_01]: Thanks for having me.
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[SPEAKER_01]: This has done a wonderful conversation.
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[SPEAKER_00]: What did you think of the episode?
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[SPEAKER_00]: I hope you enjoyed the conversation.
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[SPEAKER_00]: To learn more about today's guest, including links, resources related to everything discussed today, visit the episode page at minimalismomspodcast.com where you can find the entire podcast archive as well as my book Minimalismoms Living and Parenting with Simplicity, or other ways to connect or work with me online.
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[SPEAKER_00]: If you'd like to support the podcast, the easiest and most impactful thing you can do is subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, or YouTube, or wherever you listen to podcasts, and leave a rating or review of your favorite episode.
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[SPEAKER_00]: Lastly, sharing the show or your favorite episode with friends and social media is very helpful and will encourage others on their journey to think more and do with less.
