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00:00:19.280How I believe that our current cultural attitudes toward sleep and our cultural attitudes toward a lot of issues can be driven in ways that we don't notice or understand by people who are in power, where we've got a status quo that works for the people in power, and so they want to keep that going.
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00:00:32.320And one example of that is the CEO of Netflix basically saying war on sleep, because the fact is, in a modern capitalist society, if you are sleeping, you're neither producing nor consuming.
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00:00:33.600So what good are you?
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00:00:35.920Welcome to the Mindfully Masculine Podcast.
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00:00:36.719This is Charles.
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00:00:44.640Today, Dan and I are taking a closer look at the diary of a CEO and Stephen Bartlett's conversation with sleep scientist Matthew Walker.
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00:00:56.880We'll talk about what really happens when we don't get enough sleep, why modern culture still glorifies burnout, and how small, realistic changes in your nightly routine can make a big difference in how you feel and function.
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00:01:03.200You can find all of our audio video episodes along with anything new we're creating and sharing at mindfullymasculine.com.
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00:01:04.480Thanks and enjoy.
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00:01:05.760Good morning, Charles.
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00:01:06.560Good morning, Dan.
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00:01:07.120How are you?
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00:01:08.000I am doing well.
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00:01:08.480How are you?
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00:01:11.439Uh pretty good, but I didn't put my phone on Do Not Disturb.
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00:01:12.319Now it is.
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00:01:12.879Okay.
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00:01:14.719Um, I'm doing well.
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00:01:16.400Uh how'd you sleep?
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00:01:19.920I slept probably on a scale of one to ten.
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00:01:25.760I it's probably seven last night, so better than at my uh average for sure.
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00:01:28.079Yeah, it's probably around six or seven.
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00:01:33.359I woke up uh a bit in the middle of the night and didn't get back to sleep right away.
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00:01:36.480But that's that's not all that uncommon for me.
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00:01:40.079Um I mean, when el when else are you gonna do your hunting?
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00:01:40.719I mean, honestly.
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00:01:44.079Victims can see during the day.
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00:01:45.359So gathering.
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00:01:45.599Yeah.
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00:01:51.040Um yeah, so uh that uh brings us to our topic of this episode.
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00:02:00.640You and I um were we're staying on track with uh talking about some really great discussions from the Diary of a CEO show on YouTube.
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00:02:03.519And this one was with uh Dr.
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00:02:25.360Matthew Walker, who is a neuroscientist, and he wrote a book called Why We Sleep, and they went through and talked about pretty much everything you can imagine when it comes to sleeping and doing it the right way, doing it the wrong way, and uh a lot of the mistakes that all of us seem to be making, or at least most of us.
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00:02:28.000Um he suggests, Dr.
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00:02:36.159Walker, that we're in a global sleep loss epidemic driven by modern technology and modern economic systems.
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00:02:53.520And it's very hard to disagree with him on that because um we have seen for a good long while there have been cultural drivers that say the earlier you wake up and the less you sleep, the better person you are.
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00:02:59.199And I've been guilty of some of that as well because I am naturally a morning person.
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00:03:08.719So for people who have to sleep later and and stay up later, in the past I have done a little bit of condescending and looking down my nose at those folks.
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00:03:18.000And uh I, you know, previous to this episode, I knew that that was not scientifically legitimate or necessarily very ethical of me.
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00:03:21.280But uh so it's one of the things I'm trying to leave behind.
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00:03:28.159Do you think that comes from some sort of notion that people who are sleeping in while you're active are lazy?
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00:03:28.639Yes.
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00:03:34.960I think I mean just looking at them not doing anything, and you're up and about getting the day started, and it's just like, how dare you?
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00:03:35.360Right?
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00:03:36.000Almost, right?
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00:03:39.360Like Oh, I'm doing all this work, you're just lying there.
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00:03:42.400Yeah, but it does it, you don't you don't do the math in the opposite way.
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00:03:42.719No.
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00:03:55.120Where when I would when I go to sleep, it, you know, you're sleeping, you're not seeing and you're not witnessing them doing all the other stuff that and it's like also like how productive is somebody really what kinds of things are being done?
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00:03:56.960Or what do we think they were doing?
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00:04:04.080Because I think we're also associating that with partying and staying up late for reasons that are not really productive for the most part.
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00:04:04.560I thought it was a good thing.
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00:04:09.199Well, yeah, because I mean, you know, it doesn't you date a bartender and you realize that that's not the case.
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00:04:14.879She, you know, she was often up late working harder at night than I was working during the day at all.
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00:04:21.839Well, I'm I'm sitting at a keyboard all day and she's actually doing manual labor, and then it's like, oh, that's you know, it's not right.
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00:04:26.000Just because she happens to be doing it in a place with live music doesn't mean that it's not work.
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00:04:26.480Right.
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00:04:38.560You know, that's the thing, is just you don't unless you really to spend the time to think that through and really put yourself in other person's shoes, you're uh it's very easy to come up with those ideas that, hey, yeah, you're lazy if you you're sleeping in and staying up late.
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00:04:48.639And I think culturally it's also a lot, you know, from the the nine to five job, whether it's in an office or an assembly line, manufactory, whatever it is, it's just this idea or or even schooling.
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00:04:59.600You know, you wake up early, you get dressed, you have your breakfast, you go to school or work, and then at the end of the day, that's when you have fun, relax, and go to sleep.
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00:05:12.240So whether somebody's actual work or school schedule reflects that they're having fun in the evenings and relaxing, we kind of think, oh, that's what that's what people do at night is they have fun and they relax, even if they have a job.
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00:05:20.319I'm wondering if that comes from the culture of being human as we evolved in terms of the the labor that we were doing over the years, right?
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00:05:25.360So we started out really as like hunter-gatherers and then and then became farmers.
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00:05:30.079And when were both of those activities done primarily was in the mornings.
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00:05:34.959You start early in the morning, as soon as sunlight comes in, you're out there, you're you're working, right?
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00:05:46.560And so maybe part of the reason why we've got that in our brains culturally and and that that opinion sometimes is maybe it comes from that.
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00:05:47.920Is that's what work is.
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00:05:58.560That's that's our opinion of what hard work is, productive work, valuable work, because we're bringing in food and potentially money into the family.
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00:06:00.319Yeah, I think those activities.
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00:06:15.120I think we have to point to the agricultural revolution for that because during the hunter-gatherer phase, no, it was very it was very likely that there were, you know, he he said that you've got these early risers, these late risers, and these people that are kind of in the middle.
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00:06:15.519Yeah.
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00:06:21.439And that was the shift that it was broken out into that shift for monitoring for danger and stuff like that.
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00:06:31.519So I think for the hunter-gatherer, the people that woke up late and stayed up late and kept watch, you know, as the fire was burning out, it was their job to keep you safe while you were sleeping.
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00:06:34.160But which val which job do you think people valued more?
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00:06:35.839I think back then it was probably equal.
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00:06:39.360I don't I disagree because people want to eat.
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00:06:49.279And so if somebody, if if the the hunters came back with a big feast, it's like, oh, we haven't eaten in days, and we finally got something, like celebration, we're we're eating everything else.
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00:06:56.879And you're just kind of sitting there, and yeah, maybe it was maybe maybe you have a good a good story, like you defended the tribe.
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00:07:00.079Like, how often does that might maybe happen?
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00:07:01.680Like, probably not that often.
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00:07:03.439Not as not as often as you're bringing in food.
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00:07:11.120So I'm thinking back, I'm thinking it's probably more celebrated when you're bringing in sustenance for the the the community.
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00:07:13.199Yeah, so maybe I might be right.
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00:07:18.560The the early risers may have had a little bit of a of a higher status even back then.
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00:07:28.079But you know, what we know now from science is that there is no better or worse, there's just different and um And it's beneficial that we're different.
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00:07:30.160Yeah, if we That was interesting.
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00:07:41.920Yeah, and you know, he may he makes a good case that if sleep was something that was optional, evolution would have selected it out of us a long time ago.
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00:07:51.839So the fact that it's so expensive from a survival and an evolution standpoint, yet we still we still require it means it must be super duper important.
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00:07:55.120Otherwise, we wouldn't still be sleeping eight hours a night or whatever.
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00:07:55.680Exactly.
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00:08:01.920He made the point is when we're sleeping, we're absolutely vulnerable to to whatever attacks or yeah.
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00:08:12.079Um and uh if if you remember you talked about how some animals can have half of their brains saying I had never heard that before.
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00:08:12.879I didn't know that.
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00:08:15.360And the other brain, the other half of the brain is awake.
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00:08:30.959One of them was birds, and that was so fascinating to me the analogy or what he talked about was birds will sleep with one eye open and the other eye shut, and it will be determined based on where they land on a branch, like a flock of birds land, star line, whatever, yeah.
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00:08:43.279Right, right, lands on this, and you know, the the ones, the birds that are closest to the end have their eyes open, you know, uh on on one side, and their eyes are on the side of their head so they get the full 180 view, and sleeping on the other.
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00:08:51.519I know, and then he's like, Oh, yeah, you would switch, they wouldn't even switch with people on the inside or birds on the inside, they would just the outside ones would just switch places.
00:08:51.679 -->
00:08:55.840Well, what we said we're gonna turn around, they would just turn around in place, which is much more efficient.
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00:08:56.559That's right, yeah.
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00:08:58.480Trying to get organized, and oh, I was over here, buddy.
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00:08:59.360The other ones, too.
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00:09:03.039Right, yeah, and then and then they turn around and then they rest the other part of the brain.
00:09:03.039 -->
00:09:12.000It's crazy, but because of that, a flock survives because they can be you know aware of danger or you know, shifting winds or something knocking people off.
00:09:12.399 -->
00:09:18.159Why would evolution go to the complexity of figuring all this out if it wasn't absolutely essential for survival?
00:09:18.399 -->
00:09:26.799And what's crazy is yeah, some birds operate in that fashion, and then the birds in the middle, both of them, I think they both both have sleep.
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00:09:29.200Both brain halves have sleep.
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00:09:30.399Yeah.
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00:09:32.639And so, yeah, I remember he was, yeah.
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00:09:39.039So we talked about, yeah, I guess over time, sometimes our our brain can shift based on our sleep needs.
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00:09:52.559So, like, you know, teenagers, we are a lot of times our school systems are back ass words because we're getting the teenagers off much earlier than other, you know, than than what their brain is wanting to do.
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00:09:53.039Right.
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00:09:57.919And I just remember sitting in a class, I don't know about you, but when I was a teenager, I was falling asleep in class.
00:09:57.919 -->
00:10:03.600I mean, I wasn't sleeping great as it was, but I was just never, I was falling asleep in class all the time.
00:10:03.600 -->
00:10:05.279It was just, I was always tired.
00:10:05.519 -->
00:10:07.440For me, it was always it was always after lunch.
00:10:07.440 -->
00:10:08.799I never had a problem in the morning.
00:10:08.799 -->
00:10:11.600I would I would wake up and be Yeah, I guess me too.
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00:10:18.320I did uh we'll talk about the uh sleep quiz that you and I both took um on another sleep doctor's website.
00:10:18.320 -->
00:10:24.480But yeah, I am if I've got something important to do, then I'm doing it in the first few hours after I wake up.
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00:10:26.320That's really when I'm at my sharpest.
00:10:26.320 -->
00:10:28.480And that was pretty much the case when I was in school too.
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00:10:28.799Yeah.
00:10:28.799 -->
00:10:36.480But man, after lunch, it was real hard, especially depending on the temperature and the level of stimulation.
00:10:36.480 -->
00:10:39.519Like if it was a a chemistry lab class, no problem.
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00:10:41.120I could stay awake, no, no issue.
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00:10:50.000But if it was just, you know, a lecture class with somebody who was fairly dry and it was after lunch and it was, you know, getting a little too cool in the room.
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00:10:50.639Funk.
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00:10:50.879Yeah.
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00:10:52.639And it was it wasn't just me.
00:10:52.639 -->
00:10:55.600There was a lot of us that had that problem in high school.
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00:10:56.080Yeah.
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00:11:02.960I mean, I have I have notebooks where you can see my hand like taking notes and it like trails off.
00:11:02.960 -->
00:11:10.240Like somebody, like literally, somebody gave me a drug and it was just it's it's it's I I review and I'd be like, what did I just write here?
00:11:10.240 -->
00:11:11.440Like, it's just terrible.
00:11:11.840 -->
00:11:39.600So we uh we talked about this a little bit the other day um when we were preparing for this episode, and uh, you know, how how I believe that our current cultural attitudes toward sleep um and our cultural attitudes toward a lot of issues can be driven in ways that we don't notice or understand by people who are in power, where we've got a status quo that works for the people in power, and so they want to keep that going.
00:11:39.600 -->
00:11:52.559And one example of that is the CEO of Netflix basically saying war on sleep, because the fact is, in a modern capitalist society, if you are sleeping, you're neither producing nor consuming.
00:11:52.559 -->
00:11:53.759So what good are you?
00:11:53.759 -->
00:12:01.440You were hours too, because they have the whole grind culture of people bragging about, oh, I only need four hours, I only need five hours, I only need six hours.
00:12:01.440 -->
00:12:05.120It's like, well, you know, we all kind of need eight.
00:12:05.120 -->
00:12:10.320And, you know, as as productive as you are on six, you'd be even more productive if you were on eight.
00:12:10.559 -->
00:12:15.440See, and that's where I feel maybe it wasn't quite intentional.
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00:12:19.120I I could under I agree with you on the early rise of the.
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00:12:20.799Yeah, I don't think there was a master plan.
00:12:20.799 -->
00:12:30.399I think it, I think it's more of a, hey, we've kind of noticed that this is working for us, so let's, you know, let's find ways to reward behaviors that that are working for us.
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00:12:41.759Yeah, I think I think people just didn't realize, you know, even the even the the ones with a lot of power and access to information that we don't have, I I think just logically it was just an easier, hey, you're awake, you're able to do things.
00:12:41.759 -->
00:12:43.679And then that was kind of right.
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00:12:44.480And that was it.
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00:12:53.919They they left it that they didn't look into the the data, probably because it was difficult to get that data about how productive somebody was, right, based on the amount of sleep the hair was.
00:12:53.919 -->
00:12:58.960Now with the trackers and everything, you know, there's a lot more data out there about how we we operate.
00:12:58.960 -->
00:13:13.120And so, you know, he was saying that um sleep deprivation costs nations about two percent of GDP, which it comes out to like 411 billion in the UK or in the US, which to me, so worldwide that's got to be trillions of dollars.
00:13:13.120 -->
00:13:21.120And here's the thing, too, is the you know, the the companies on the leading edge of everything, almost like Google.
00:13:21.120 -->
00:13:25.519Uh they've got sleep, you know, sleep rooms for their employees now and sleep pods.
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00:13:30.080So they recognize, yeah, go ahead, take a nap, and and you'll be more productive.
00:13:30.080 -->
00:13:35.279So they they understand that the bottom line really is is benefiting for people who actually get enough sleep.
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00:13:49.360Yeah, it's it's interesting how yeah, the the companies on the edge of technology are are figuring that out and implementing it where you know some of the older fashion, certainly I don't see any small businesses putting in, you know, napping rooms anytime soon.
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00:13:49.600Yeah.
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00:14:03.840Because I think it's still, you know, like no, you get your sleep at home and that's you know, and I I can see why, because if you don't have a huge staff of people to help manage the rooms need to be cleaned and they need to be managed.
00:14:03.840 -->
00:14:05.840I was thinking about the shifts, yeah.
00:14:05.840 -->
00:14:07.279Somebody leave for a nap.
00:14:07.679 -->
00:14:09.200Like, how do you get that covered, right?
00:14:09.200 -->
00:14:15.120How do you plan for for you know for things to still be running the right way when somebody's just definitely it would take work.
00:14:15.120 -->
00:14:19.440I randomly like need a nap in the middle of right, unless you had like pre-programmed times.
00:14:19.440 -->
00:14:23.440Yeah, that's it's definitely more work on management, the owners, everything else.
00:14:23.440 -->
00:14:30.000So I can see us human beings, I don't want to take on more work so this person can take a nap.
00:14:30.000 -->
00:14:36.240Like think about even just saying it out loud makes me feel like I think holy cow, that would that's a hard task, right?
00:14:36.480 -->
00:14:52.559It would have to be a top-down thing where the guy, you know, the guy or the gal at the top believed that it was necessary and they were taking the naps and they were like, listen, you know, you don't you don't have to go to sleep if you don't want to, but you know, in our eight-hour shifts, yeah, everybody gets a 20-minute nap, and that's just the way that it is.
00:14:52.559 -->
00:14:53.039Yeah.
00:14:53.039 -->
00:15:07.440Um, but one of the other things we were talking we were talking about was the example of, you know, where the the cultural pressure to perform kind of can fly in the face of what's actually good for people was perfect attendance awards for school.
00:15:07.679 -->
00:15:08.960Yeah, you were saying that the other day, right?
00:15:09.279 -->
00:15:12.960The idea of, you know, oh, I I go to school every day, whether I'm sick or not.
00:15:12.960 -->
00:15:19.519It's like that's not it's not good for you recovering from your cold, your flu, your COVID, your illness, whatever it happens to be.
00:15:19.519 -->
00:15:22.960It's not good for you to show up, and it's not good for the rest of us for you to come to work either.
00:15:22.960 -->
00:15:23.200Yeah.
00:15:23.200 -->
00:15:27.519But we're still going to give you this little gold star at the end of the year that says you didn't you didn't miss a single day.
00:15:27.519 -->
00:15:29.039I don't know if they do that anymore.
00:15:29.039 -->
00:15:33.039I I wouldn't be surprised if that's gone the way of the dodo, but it certainly should.
00:15:33.039 -->
00:15:41.759I mean, that's ridiculous that we that we reward people for showing up every day, whether that's a good idea for the individual or the group or not.
00:15:41.759 -->
00:15:43.440I mean, that's so here's cool.
00:15:43.440 -->
00:15:44.320Here's here's right.
00:15:44.320 -->
00:15:47.919So I mean that's that's what we want out of somebody working on an assembly line.
00:15:47.919 -->
00:15:53.759We want them to show up every day, we think, unless we think about it a little bit deeper, and then we're like, no, it's it that's not good either.
00:15:54.000 -->
00:16:00.000So what I don't understand is adults get sick days at like every job, almost every job, it gives you sick days.
00:16:00.000 -->
00:16:01.600Yeah, or yeah, paid time off.
00:16:01.600 -->
00:16:14.720Uh was it just I I think we like it was kind of an unspoken thing at at school when I was in high school, is you could get a number of like it's not like you were handed sick days like you are at a job.
00:16:14.720 -->
00:16:18.799It was one of those there were consequences after you took too many sick days.
00:16:18.799 -->
00:16:22.399And like that number sometimes wasn't really known or whatever.
00:16:22.399 -->
00:16:29.120But why not allow you know students and accommodate the curriculum to have sick days too?
00:16:29.360 -->
00:16:29.679Right.
00:16:29.679 -->
00:16:42.399Yeah, and I I would say, even to the point where I mean, in a good job where you're working on a healthy, productive team, if you get sick, somebody else is going to jump in and do your job for you.
00:16:42.399 -->
00:16:58.639Now, obviously, the goal with school should be we're trying to get an education, we're trying to learn things, but I would say, yeah, you should there should be some incentive to say, okay, if you're gonna miss school, here's the work you should do to catch up, but we're not gonna require you to turn it homework for the days that you were sick.
00:16:58.799 -->
00:16:59.120Yeah.
00:16:59.120 -->
00:17:01.840Or you can do the work at a different schedule, whatever.
00:17:01.840 -->
00:17:08.160I mean, these days with technology and everything, like having that flexibility, you know, you could do some more virtual stuff, whatever.
00:17:08.160 -->
00:17:17.759There's no excuse to, you know, make sure somebody's sitting in that seat 300, you know, whatever days, how many days are you 180 days year, whatever it is, right?
00:17:17.759 -->
00:17:18.720Like, come on.
00:17:18.960 -->
00:17:29.680Yeah, I I do, but again, we as we you and I have talked about, you know, the whole public school system in this country was built on preparing people to work manufacturing jobs and be slaves, basically.
00:17:29.680 -->
00:17:29.920Yeah.
00:17:29.920 -->
00:17:35.200Show up when the whistle blows and work hard until the second whistle blows, and then you go home, and then you know.
00:17:35.200 -->
00:17:35.599Yeah.
00:17:35.599 -->
00:17:44.400And yeah, in some cases it was, you know, in in some industries, it was you lived on company land, you bought your groceries from the company store.
00:17:44.400 -->
00:17:52.559I mean, there was some crazy practices back in the day after the industrial revolution, where yeah, the the business magnates pretty much ran your life.
00:17:52.720 -->
00:17:52.960Yeah.
00:17:52.960 -->
00:18:06.480Well, what's interesting is some of those high technology companies like you know, Google and things like that, they also they've it's interesting because they also will have different incentive plans where the you know you they'll get your laundry done for you.
00:18:06.480 -->
00:18:07.839So they really want you there.
00:18:07.839 -->
00:18:13.119You know, they'll they'll arrange for babysitting, whatever it is, whatever your needs are to keep you in that office as much as possible.
00:18:13.119 -->
00:18:16.000Now, that's something I heard about you know 10, 15 years ago.
00:18:16.000 -->
00:18:16.240Yeah.
00:18:16.480 -->
00:18:17.680I know if that's still the culture.
00:18:17.680 -->
00:18:22.240I had heard that some of them even had uh, you know, RV campgrounds camps.
00:18:22.240 -->
00:18:22.640Oh, yeah.
00:18:22.640 -->
00:18:27.519Where you could you could live on campus in your RV and save a bunch of money.
00:18:27.519 -->
00:18:31.039And but you know, the trade-off was you're right there if they need you.
00:18:31.039 -->
00:18:31.519Yes.
00:18:31.519 -->
00:18:33.039And uh I would take that deal.
00:18:33.039 -->
00:18:33.440Yeah.
00:18:33.680 -->
00:18:36.720I mean, and that's the thing, is uh and that might be good for a phase of your life.
00:18:36.720 -->
00:18:41.519You that might be perfect for you because it's like, I mean, the housing in that air in Silicon Valley is ridiculous.
00:18:41.519 -->
00:18:41.920Right.
00:18:41.920 -->
00:18:50.880So to basically live, you know, fairly rent-free and and you know, I mean, that's that's a that's uh you know, it's a willing trade-off a lot of people will take, sure.
00:18:51.119 -->
00:18:54.960Yeah, so anyway, back to uh back to the sleep, yeah.
00:18:54.960 -->
00:18:56.640The sleep that we were talking about.
00:18:56.640 -->
00:19:12.720Uh I did like that he in in sort of emphasizing the importance of sleep, he basically said, you can take a day off of eating, you can take a day off of exercising, and the impact to both of those will not be comparable to taking a day off of sleep.
00:19:12.960 -->
00:19:14.160I think he even said drinking water.
00:19:14.400 -->
00:19:14.799Yeah, he did.
00:19:14.880 -->
00:19:16.640He the only thing was oxygen.
00:19:16.799 -->
00:19:19.759Yeah, basically it's oxygen, then sleep, then everything else.
00:19:20.000 -->
00:19:20.799That's insane.
00:19:21.039 -->
00:19:22.400But I mean, it kind of makes sense.
00:19:22.400 -->
00:19:32.400I mean, I do I have had some days, you know, in the last five or ten years where I had to stay up all night solving a critical tech problem for one of my clients.
00:19:32.400 -->
00:19:36.079And yeah, the next day I I feel like garbage.
00:19:36.079 -->
00:19:46.079I mean, I can I think I'm I'm healthy enough where I could still do it, where if I have to work through a night, I can work through a night and be functional the next day, but not at my best, and certainly not two days.
00:19:46.079 -->
00:19:46.559Yep.
00:19:46.559 -->
00:19:48.720Trying to do it two days in a row, absolutely not.
00:19:48.720 -->
00:20:00.000Where when I was, you know, um, when I was in college and I was a camp counselor during the summer, I had a couple of times where I stayed up all night two nights in a row and just didn't sleep at all.
00:20:00.000 -->
00:20:04.480And I I was loopy and I but I didn't need to be very high performing.
00:20:04.480 -->
00:20:09.039But God, thinking about doing that now gives me the shivers.
00:20:09.039 -->
00:20:19.759Um let's see, one thing uh or he did get into sleep supports immunity, metabolism, emotional regulation, which is a big one, cardiovascular health, and hormone balance.
00:20:19.759 -->
00:20:42.400And when you don't have we'll we'll get into what the the negative side effects of chronic bad sleep, but um the emotional regulation was one that really stood out to me because there are a lot of people that uh have poor sleep, and to say that they're grumpy or they woke up on the wrong side of the bed is an understatement.
00:20:42.400 -->
00:20:51.920Like the yeah, peop people that chronically abuse their sleep schedules are not not nice people to be around.
00:20:51.920 -->
00:20:53.359I've I've seen it.
00:20:53.359 -->
00:21:01.920And they'll still brag about how little sleep they need, but then the rest of the people in their lives have to have to deal with the yeah, the outcome of that and the consequences of that.
00:21:01.920 -->
00:21:02.640Yeah.
00:21:02.880 -->
00:21:18.400Um that's uh it it's it's if you think about it, it really makes sense because sleep is doing a lot of cleansing and a lot of regeneration for everything in your brain, and your brain is controlling everything in your body, right?
00:21:18.400 -->
00:21:22.799So your hormones, you know, they talk about appetite.
00:21:22.799 -->
00:21:25.599Um what's crazy is the the weight loss.
00:21:25.599 -->
00:21:30.480He said 60% of your weight loss will come from muscle if you're not sleeping well.
00:21:30.799 -->
00:21:56.319Yes, and I I am in the middle of of trying to trim down right now, and uh I mean, really, I'm not doing what I ought to be doing diet-wise to maximize my muscle, but I am doing what I need to do injection-wise to maximize the sustainability of my leap body, which is you know, I've I'm on my doctor's prescribed dose of uh testosterone and I'm getting pretty good sleep.
00:21:56.319 -->
00:22:06.079And so, you know, whether whether my my scale is super accurate about lean body mass or not, at least I'm I'm consistently using the same scale at the same time every day.
00:22:06.079 -->
00:22:11.359And for what it's telling me is I am I'm cutting fat and I'm not cutting anything else.
00:22:11.359 -->
00:22:11.599Yeah.
00:22:11.599 -->
00:22:13.440And hopefully I can I can maintain that.
00:22:13.440 -->
00:22:15.599And I'm gonna I'm gonna do a little bit better on the diet side.
00:22:15.599 -->
00:22:21.359But on the sleep side, I I feel like you know, most nights for me are a seven or eight out of ten.
00:22:21.359 -->
00:22:25.920Last night was a little below average, but uh, or a little below my average.
00:22:25.920 -->
00:22:31.759But for the most part, I get to bed pretty early and wake up fairly early as well.
00:22:31.759 -->
00:22:33.599And it it seems to work for me.
00:22:33.599 -->
00:22:42.799And I like I don't usually during the normal course of a day feel like I need to take a nap or feel like I am shortchanging myself on sleep.
00:22:42.799 -->
00:22:46.480I I usually have a fair amount of energy all day long.
00:22:46.480 -->
00:22:49.680And then when it's time to go to bed, I go to bed and I fall asleep fairly quickly.
00:22:49.680 -->
00:23:01.599Um and as a result, hopefully, as I keep uh I've got another 10 or 12 pounds to drop, hopefully it will continue to be body fat and not uh lean muscle mass.
00:23:01.599 -->
00:23:02.160Yeah.
00:23:02.160 -->
00:23:27.440Um he mentions that uh couples will often clash over their mismatched sleep rhythms, and I've I've definitely I've had that in relationships where for the most part um I seem to be I find myself in relationships with a lot of people who um not always but typically go to bed later and wake up later than me.
00:23:27.440 -->
00:23:31.359And he suggests um sleep divorce.
00:23:31.359 -->
00:23:32.079Getting divorced.
00:23:32.079 -->
00:23:42.720Sleep divorce, yeah, where you ha have separate sleeping arrangements, which um I think he mentioned something about the Scandinavian method or something where it's two beds in the same room.
00:23:42.720 -->
00:23:55.440Um, but he also noted that's not as effective at dealing with if one partner gets up and and gets up and and leaves a room and comes back to the room in the middle of the night, that's still gonna be disruptive.
00:23:55.440 -->
00:24:02.240Or if one partner snores, that's still you know, being in the same room is gonna be not as good an option as having two completely separate bedrooms.
00:24:02.559 -->
00:24:10.079Yeah, they said the data shows that people when they sleep by themselves get better sleep, more rested sleep and but they don't report better sleep.
00:24:10.160 -->
00:24:10.960I thought that was interesting.
00:24:11.200 -->
00:24:11.519That's right.
00:24:11.519 -->
00:24:15.359They said the level of satisfaction of sleep is uh higher when you're sleeping with a part.
00:24:15.599 -->
00:24:18.079And I I feel I feel like that's definitely the case.
00:24:18.079 -->
00:24:25.440I I would rather especially, you know, if if I'm if I'm with somebody, I would rather sleep in a bed with them than sleep in my own bed.
00:24:25.440 -->
00:24:26.079Yeah.
00:24:26.079 -->
00:24:27.680But, you know, that's it.
00:24:27.680 -->
00:24:39.920If I if I ever find myself cohabitating with someone again, I could see a scenario where for me, what I find is for me to sleep comfortably, all I need is a full-size bed.
00:24:39.920 -->
00:24:42.720I don't need a king-sized bed if I'm sleeping alone to be comfortable.
00:24:42.720 -->
00:24:43.039Okay.
00:24:43.039 -->
00:24:47.599So, like if I'm traveling and the hotel's like, oh, we don't have a king room for you, we have two doubles.
00:24:47.599 -->
00:24:48.400No problem.
00:24:48.400 -->
00:24:48.880I don't care.
00:24:48.880 -->
00:24:52.319I can sleep perfectly fine by myself in a double size in a double bed.
00:24:52.400 -->
00:24:52.720Yeah.
00:24:52.960 -->
00:25:21.839Um, so that said, I ever found myself cohabitating in a house with someone, I could see maybe in my in my office having a full-size bed in there, so that um, you know, if if either one of us were not sleeping well, it's very easy to just get up and then, you know, or if over time I realize that I'm not sleeping as well with my partner as I would if I was alone, you know, having that having that flexibility in a house, I could see some value in that.
00:25:21.839 -->
00:25:22.160Yeah.
00:25:22.559 -->
00:25:31.440Yeah, I've I've needed to minimize the amount of when I've been with somebody, uh the the because I'm a very late sleeper.
00:25:31.440 -->
00:25:35.680So I've needed, so I've gotten like a split top king bed.
00:25:35.680 -->
00:25:39.599So basically what that is, it it it the the halfway split.
00:25:39.599 -->
00:25:41.279But you don't I hate the gap.
00:25:41.279 -->
00:25:47.279But you don't the gap is annoying, but you can shove some pillows in the middle there so you're not like falling in the gap in the middle of uh whatever.
00:25:47.279 -->
00:25:54.799But um, yeah, but the thing is though, if somebody's getting up or down, somebody's got restless leg syndrome, you're not feeling that on the other side of the bed.
00:25:54.799 -->
00:26:10.559And you're still you still have that that still that that one bed the other pieces having completely separate blankets and not so you're not like like or or they need to be really huge so that you don't feel someone when they like turn over and then they they they yank the blanket off of you.
00:26:10.559 -->
00:26:24.079And it's just it a lot of times we don't even notice when that happens because we're mostly asleep, but those little those little disturbances will wake us up and take us out of the proper state of our our brain, that that you know, the brainwave state.
00:26:24.240 -->
00:26:28.960So um I've had yeah, I've had the separate blanket thing proposed by partners before.
00:26:28.960 -->
00:26:30.240I'm like, absolutely not.
00:26:30.240 -->
00:26:33.039That is that is counter, that is counter to my goals.
00:26:33.039 -->
00:26:39.680I want to be under the same blanket as you and is that interfere with your Dutch oven activity or is that the problem?
00:26:39.680 -->
00:26:43.440I would never um no, that is not the problem.
00:26:43.440 -->
00:26:56.799It's just I I want to be able to, when I'm cold, I want to be able to roll over and spoon my partner and warm, I want to be able to roll over to the other side, and I don't want extra cloth and interference in the way.
00:26:56.799 -->
00:26:57.279Yeah.
00:26:57.440 -->
00:27:09.599That uh I yeah, I I have I have pushed back and now have you ever been with somebody who needs or would like the ambient room temperature to be every fucking time, yes.
00:27:09.759 -->
00:27:11.759No, no, no different than what you would guess.
00:27:11.759 -->
00:27:12.319Yes.
00:27:12.319 -->
00:27:13.279Ugh.
00:27:13.759 -->
00:27:15.920And I'm guessing it's warmer and not colder.
00:27:15.920 -->
00:27:17.119It's warmer.
00:27:17.119 -->
00:27:18.079Uh-huh.
00:27:18.480 -->
00:27:19.759You've had that problem too?
00:27:20.000 -->
00:27:21.359Oh, I've never not had that problem.
00:27:21.680 -->
00:27:22.160Yeah, same.
00:27:22.160 -->
00:27:24.960I I've never been with anybody who liked it as cold as I do.
00:27:24.960 -->
00:27:25.359Yeah.
00:27:25.839 -->
00:27:45.680And yeah, that's that's tough, man, because now the one workaround that I found for this is expensive, but if you get one of the, you know, the cooling devices that also offer heating, um, so Uler is one of them.
00:27:45.680 -->
00:27:59.599I think eight sleep offers one that's like ridiculously expensive, but it's basically a mat that's filled with water and it can raise the temperature up and also adjust over on a schedule throughout the course of the night.
00:27:59.599 -->
00:28:05.440And so I've created I've bought two of them, so we have independent ones.
00:28:05.440 -->
00:28:16.079So hers is a lot warmer, it keeps her nice and warm while the ambient temperature drops and helps me sleep, and mine is cold.
00:28:16.079 -->
00:28:24.000And that's that that is how I've gotten through that, but that adds significant cost to any sleeping environment.
00:28:24.240 -->
00:28:28.160See, and I I have but considering how important sleep is, I think it's more than worth the imagination.
00:28:28.160 -->
00:28:28.880I get it.
00:28:28.880 -->
00:28:36.559I my my issue is anything I'm not really comfortable adding anything to the bed.
00:28:36.559 -->
00:28:40.880So I like I like the mattress, yeah, the fitted sheet.
00:28:40.880 -->
00:28:41.200Yeah.
00:28:41.200 -->
00:28:48.240If I add, you know, any kind of a mattress topper or a mattress cooler, or I mean, I I am bare bones.
00:28:48.240 -->
00:28:57.839I am mattress, fitted sheet, comforter, no top sheet, just a soft duvet cover that feels nice and and nothing else.
00:28:57.839 -->
00:29:13.519Okay and and I kinda I mean listen, I my room, like just last night, I turned it down to 66 based on what I was usually I keep it around probably 60, 69 is is usually where I keep it.
00:29:13.519 -->
00:29:20.000But last night I went down to 66 and the room around me is not comfortable, it's too cold.
00:29:20.000 -->
00:29:29.359But underneath, but the bed with the comforter on me is perfect, and I like it to the point where I don't want to get out from under the covers.
00:29:29.359 -->
00:29:33.920That that is what's comfortable for me, where the air is cold enough that I don't want to get out from under the blanket.
00:29:33.920 -->
00:29:34.559Yeah.
00:29:34.559 -->
00:29:39.039But I've yeah, I've never dated anybody that likes it that cold.
00:29:39.039 -->
00:29:41.200And I don't know.
00:29:41.200 -->
00:29:52.640I mean, it's kind of weird though, because I mean, the the average woman has a higher body fat percentage than the average man, so it can't be related to that.
00:29:52.960 -->
00:29:59.039Uh, I think actually one of the biggest drivers in terms of how warm we are is how much we eat.
00:29:59.039 -->
00:30:10.319And And if my my experience is the the ladies that I've been dating typically eat a lot less than than I do, but also less than what their body needs.
00:30:10.319 -->
00:30:15.839And so their body doesn't, your cells don't have that extra energy to give off as heat.
00:30:15.839 -->
00:30:22.880And a lot of them either that or they've got some some some thyroid issues between those two things that will absolutely affect your body temperature.
00:30:22.880 -->
00:30:34.240So what feels, you know, something that feels cold to us could be feeling extremely cold, much more cold to somebody else who doesn't have that extra body heat to give off.
00:30:34.559 -->
00:30:40.559Well, I'm gonna push back a little bit because I've known many of your former relationships.
00:30:40.559 -->
00:30:40.960Yeah.
00:30:40.960 -->
00:30:43.279You think they were perpetually in calorie deficits?
00:30:43.279 -->
00:30:44.480Uh yeah, actually.
00:30:44.480 -->
00:30:45.680Or nutrient deficits.
00:30:45.680 -->
00:30:47.279Well, maybe nutrient deficit.
00:30:47.279 -->
00:30:47.599Yeah.
00:30:48.000 -->
00:30:48.400I think so.
00:30:48.400 -->
00:30:50.160And and also some thyroid issues as well.
00:30:50.160 -->
00:30:51.440Okay, I could see that.
00:30:51.440 -->
00:30:52.559But absolutely.
00:30:53.119 -->
00:30:53.920Yeah, I didn't.
00:30:54.160 -->
00:30:54.720Yeah.
00:30:54.720 -->
00:30:58.640Because it would be, it would, it would be, and it wasn't just when we're sleeping.
00:30:58.640 -->
00:31:02.799It was just like sitting around, always colder than I was.
00:31:03.119 -->
00:31:06.160Um, I'm in I'm in a significant death.
00:31:08.480 -->
00:31:11.599Driving in a car, like I want the air conditioning like blowing right on me.
00:31:11.599 -->
00:31:12.799They turn it completely off.
00:31:13.039 -->
00:31:17.599Oh, see, even in my car, yeah, my car, the air conditioner is never off.
00:31:17.599 -->
00:31:18.640It it's yeah.
00:31:18.640 -->
00:31:19.359Oh no, okay.
00:31:19.359 -->
00:31:23.519It's always on the lowest temperature setting and then the lowest fan setting.
00:31:23.519 -->
00:31:23.759Yeah.
00:31:23.759 -->
00:31:27.759Like even when I get cold, I never turn it off because the air the air gets stale.
00:31:27.759 -->
00:31:38.480So what I'm doing right now is I have the air on the lowest setting for both the temperature and the fan, and I have the heated seats on the lowest setting as well.
00:31:38.480 -->
00:31:41.759So I get a little bit of a little bit of warmth from the seats.
00:31:41.759 -->
00:31:44.960But yeah, I am I am always running hot.
00:31:44.960 -->
00:31:46.640I don't know what Yeah.
00:31:46.640 -->
00:31:52.559I mean But the science says that that is where I should be for the best quality sleep.
00:31:52.559 -->
00:31:53.279Absolutely.
00:31:53.440 -->
00:31:53.680Yeah.
00:31:53.680 -->
00:32:04.640I think I think that's the thing too, is I'm wondering see, there's a range there, and I guess they don't really ever talk about what um what we're coming into the room with.
00:32:04.640 -->
00:32:12.400Like what of what what is our body like what does our interpretation of that temperature feel like on on somebody, right?
00:32:12.400 -->
00:32:14.319So I think that's part of it too.
00:32:14.319 -->
00:32:17.279I guess if you're feeling too cold, I don't know.
00:32:17.279 -->
00:32:18.799Is that is that a thing?
00:32:18.799 -->
00:32:19.440I don't know.
00:32:19.680 -->
00:32:22.160I'm sure, I'm sure too cold you know, is a thing.
00:32:22.240 -->
00:32:23.759But maybe that's that's that's what it is.
00:32:23.759 -->
00:32:25.039But that's why running in a problem.
00:32:26.960 -->
00:32:27.519I don't know.
00:32:27.519 -->
00:32:27.920Yeah.
00:32:27.920 -->
00:32:30.880You know, is it is it my body's too cold or is I'm just not used to it.
00:32:31.039 -->
00:32:39.200I mean, it's so here's the thing is but my you know, my partners would always sleep at no problem at a much warmer temperature, and they get great sleep.
00:32:39.200 -->
00:32:40.960And yeah, am I a little jealous?
00:32:40.960 -->
00:32:42.079Absolutely.
00:32:42.079 -->
00:32:48.640Uh, but that was that they they were just sleeping well at at a temperature where I there's no way I couldn't sleep.
00:32:48.799 -->
00:32:54.640Yeah, I dated one girl where she slept with her windows open no matter what the temperature was outside.
00:32:54.640 -->
00:32:55.359In Florida?
00:32:55.359 -->
00:32:55.839Yes.
00:32:55.839 -->
00:32:57.680Oh, yes, dude.
00:32:57.680 -->
00:33:01.839Yeah, AC off, windows open, no matter what the temperature was outside.
00:33:02.079 -->
00:33:03.599Was she from the equator?
00:33:04.319 -->
00:33:04.720Yes.
00:33:04.720 -->
00:33:05.200Okay.
00:33:05.200 -->
00:33:06.799She was from Guatemala.
00:33:06.799 -->
00:33:07.519Okay.
00:33:07.519 -->
00:33:08.640There you go.
00:33:08.640 -->
00:33:09.279All right.
00:33:09.279 -->
00:33:10.319All right, let's move on.
00:33:10.319 -->
00:33:13.279So, yeah, that that worked for her, but it did not work for me.
00:33:13.440 -->
00:33:13.599Okay.
00:33:14.319 -->
00:33:16.960Um, okay, so let's talk a little bit.
00:33:16.960 -->
00:33:18.880You took your quiz on uh I did.
00:33:18.880 -->
00:33:19.359What was that?
00:33:19.359 -->
00:33:22.480Uh sleepdock.com slash sleep dash quiz.
00:33:22.480 -->
00:33:30.480And I was a lion, which means I am naturally alert early, most productive before noon, and ready to wind down by nine or ten.
00:33:30.480 -->
00:33:32.160And that's me to a T.
00:33:32.400 -->
00:33:32.799Yeah.
00:33:32.960 -->
00:33:38.559Um it also said it did say it suggested that early morning workouts are good.
00:33:38.559 -->
00:33:44.079Um yes, if if it's uh steady state cardio.
00:33:44.079 -->
00:33:45.519Like going for a walk.
00:33:45.519 -->
00:33:47.200I love an early morning walk.
00:33:47.200 -->
00:33:47.599Yeah.
00:33:47.599 -->
00:33:50.160Lifting heavy early in the morning, not so much.
00:33:50.160 -->
00:33:52.640Um, but like a 6 30 a.m.
00:33:52.640 -->
00:33:54.160walk is my ideal.
00:33:54.160 -->
00:33:55.359That is perfect for me.
00:33:55.519 -->
00:33:55.759Yeah.
00:33:55.920 -->
00:34:02.720Um, I feel great on an early, early morning walk with uh right now I'm listening to Strong Ground by Brene Brown, which is amazing.
00:34:02.720 -->
00:34:07.279I'm gonna do another mini book report on that once I uh once I finish it.
00:34:07.279 -->
00:34:08.719And uh it's great.
00:34:08.719 -->
00:34:13.679Um just yeah, there's there are a few things I enjoy more than a nice long walk.
00:34:13.679 -->
00:34:15.199And I mean, long is relative.
00:34:15.199 -->
00:34:19.760For me, I did five and a half miles yesterday and it was it was great.
00:34:19.760 -->
00:34:22.880I I love you know having that first cup of coffee.
00:34:22.880 -->
00:34:29.679Well, first cup of coffee and first dump in the morning and then going for the walk is is optimal for me.
00:34:29.679 -->
00:34:35.280Yeah, because uh yeah, where I walk around, um, there are not a lot of public restrooms readily available.
00:34:35.280 -->
00:34:38.000I made that mistake when I first moved back to Winter Garden.
00:34:38.000 -->
00:34:45.840I went for the walk with the cup of coffee in hand, and I found myself like, okay, this is this could be a problem.
00:34:45.840 -->
00:34:46.400It wasn't.
00:34:46.400 -->
00:34:52.000I was able to take care of business and get get where I needed to go, but it can oof.
00:34:52.239 -->
00:35:02.639When I was doing 75 Hard last year and I was doing those 45 minute walks, yeah, I had a couple of uh accidents that let's just put it that way, where I didn't I didn't make it back on time, you know.
00:35:02.639 -->
00:35:05.440Um so I feel you.
00:35:05.440 -->
00:35:08.239I literally I I feel that uh for sure.
00:35:08.480 -->
00:35:20.480Yeah, that's why when my my best day is um well, my best, like everybody, or like everybody who's come to this conclusion, your best day starts with your best night the night before, getting everything ready.
00:35:20.480 -->
00:35:34.400And for me, that includes having my workout clothes ready and also having my delightful bun, heat, and brew coffee maker programmed and ready so that I wake up to a pot of freshly brewed coffee.
00:35:34.400 -->
00:35:46.559I start sipping and you know, doing some of the just bare minimum, not not any heavy work before my first walk, but um just sort of you know opening up my computer and seeing you know what the day looks like.
00:35:46.559 -->
00:35:52.159Yeah, sipping on the coffee, go into the restroom, and then hitting the road and doing, you know, at least three miles.
00:35:52.159 -->
00:35:55.840Ideally, if I can get six in, that's that's perfect.
00:35:55.840 -->
00:36:00.639Um but yeah, so the uh the lion likes that.
00:36:00.639 -->
00:36:02.000You are a dolphin.
00:36:02.159 -->
00:36:02.480Right.
00:36:02.480 -->
00:36:04.000Tell me a little bit about that.
00:36:04.239 -->
00:36:08.239So he said that's only 10% of the population because Oh, these are chronotypes, by the way.
00:36:08.239 -->
00:36:20.079This is basically you take you take this little quiz and it says based on based on your attitudes towards sleep and what you notice about your sleep, here's here's what you are, and here's how you should optimize.
00:36:20.320 -->
00:36:22.400Yeah, and he said, you know, it's it's 10%.
00:36:22.639 -->
00:36:23.360I think I'm 15.
00:36:23.599 -->
00:36:23.840Okay.
00:36:23.840 -->
00:36:31.840So it was it was the lowest amount of people are are the dolphin chronotypings because we we're all over the place a little bit.
00:36:32.079 -->
00:36:35.280Yeah, the other ones I think were bear and wolf, were those and there's only four, right?
00:36:35.280 -->
00:36:36.320Right with this guy's test.
00:36:36.320 -->
00:36:36.960Yeah.
00:36:37.440 -->
00:36:46.320Um so for me, it's it's not early morning exercise, but it's like mid-morning exercise or mid-morning tasks.
00:36:46.320 -->
00:36:51.440I I'm I'm great like from like nine to one or two, something like that.
00:36:51.440 -->
00:36:56.400Um before and afterwards, groggy or or tired type of thing.
00:36:56.400 -->
00:37:04.000Um so it was it was I mean, it was accurate for the the questions that he asked me.
00:37:04.000 -->
00:37:17.920Um yeah, so that I I don't really have anything other than um he really just said that you know the chronotypes can change over time and depending on our age as well.
00:37:17.920 -->
00:37:26.800So I yeah, I other than that, like dolphins are just kind of like inconsistent with their like light sleepers, yeah, they can wake up easily.
00:37:26.800 -->
00:37:34.480Um, and I think that was also one of the things he was mentioning with the the half of a brain sleeping at once.
00:37:34.719 -->
00:37:36.159Yeah, dolphins can are one of the animals.
00:37:36.400 -->
00:37:38.320Because they have to they have to get up, right?
00:37:38.320 -->
00:37:42.559Because they have to get to the surface, they can't just sleep underwater the whole time, right?
00:37:42.559 -->
00:37:44.800Because they have to get they have to get some oxygen at some point.
00:37:44.800 -->
00:37:45.199Yeah.
00:37:45.199 -->
00:37:48.159Um, I'm just thinking, what a pain in the ass that's gotta be.
00:37:48.159 -->
00:37:52.400But apparently, I guess if you're if your brain can do that, that's that's an amazing thing.
00:37:52.400 -->
00:37:54.800I uh I gotta figure out how to how to hack that.
00:37:54.800 -->
00:38:01.519Is there a biohack to have half of our brain sleep and the other one awake and then switch it off and and rotate?
00:38:02.159 -->
00:38:06.320Not uh not that he said in this podcast and uh I talked to Dr.
00:38:06.320 -->
00:38:09.760Mike about that, and I said, I'm sure there's some sort of drug they're working on for that.
00:38:09.760 -->
00:38:10.639Yeah.
00:38:10.639 -->
00:38:12.639I mean that would be amazing.
00:38:12.639 -->
00:38:19.760But then we're bored after that, after that's been solved.
00:38:19.760 -->
00:38:25.519Right, but then all diseases and cured and then the half-brain stuff uh can can be the the next thing.
00:38:25.519 -->
00:38:31.760Uh he does talk about uh he goes through a list of what society could do differently to make things better.
00:38:31.760 -->
00:38:38.639Um he mentions that governments have lots of campaigns and public service announcements about a lot of things, but not getting good sleep.
00:38:38.639 -->
00:38:43.199Uh businesses could replace the idea that sleep is weakness with sleep is good.
00:38:43.199 -->
00:38:44.639And it was interesting.
00:38:44.639 -->
00:39:06.639He did mention that um if employees take a survey on the presentation skills of the leaders, if the leader has been sleep deprived, even if the the employees have no idea what the the sleep schedule of the CEO or the leader is, they will rate them as less charismatic if they've delivered a presentation on less hours of sleep versus more hours of sleep.
00:39:06.639 -->
00:39:07.840It makes sense.
00:39:07.840 -->
00:39:08.719It totally makes sense.
00:39:08.960 -->
00:39:09.039Right.
00:39:09.039 -->
00:39:09.280Yeah.
00:39:09.280 -->
00:39:18.480I I am I'm absolutely more creative when when I've got, you know, and and and taking on, you know, they talk about your biggest task as as the frog, right?
00:39:18.480 -->
00:39:21.119For you know, swallow that fog as a book.
00:39:21.119 -->
00:39:26.559I and I know and also willing to take challeng uh risks and take on challenges.
00:39:26.559 -->
00:39:34.159I think they were talking about that employees were a lot less likely to take on a challenging task if they're sleep deprived.
00:39:34.480 -->
00:39:35.280And it makes sense.
00:39:35.280 -->
00:39:55.199Yeah, that's that's interesting because the the part of the uh of Brene Brown's book that I was just listening to this morning um was really it was about creating an environment where people feel safe taking risks and rewarding people for taking smart calculated risks versus rewarding them for the outcome.
00:39:55.199 -->
00:40:07.679So you wanna you want to be in a company or an organization where you are encouraged and rewarded based on taking a good risk, not necessarily how well or poorly that risk works out.
00:40:07.679 -->
00:40:08.320Yeah.
00:40:08.320 -->
00:40:23.519Because I mean, lear learning what is a good risk versus a bad risk and being encouraged to take good risks is more important for the long-term health of your organization than just rewarding good outcomes and punishing bad outcomes.
00:40:23.519 -->
00:40:30.159And yeah, having having a workforce that is taking their sleep needs seriously will will add to that.
00:40:30.320 -->
00:40:30.880Yeah.
00:40:31.119 -->
00:40:33.760Um, I want to talk a little bit about napping.
00:40:33.760 -->
00:40:45.199So um I've heard different things, as uh Steve Bartlett, the the host, had heard, where basically if you can't sleep for a certain amount of time during a nap, you're better off not taking the nap in the first place.
00:40:45.199 -->
00:40:47.519Where it doesn't actually work that way.
00:40:47.519 -->
00:40:54.559What the way it seems to work is short naps are good, long naps are good, medium-term naps not so good.
00:40:54.559 -->
00:41:00.079And uh I'm going to definitely remember that when I'm in a situation where I need a nap.
00:41:00.320 -->
00:41:02.960So do you remember what they defined as medium-term?
00:41:03.360 -->
00:41:03.679Yes.
00:41:03.679 -->
00:41:18.559So um I believe he said that a nap as short as nine minutes can have a um a positive benefit to your mood and your reaction time.
00:41:18.559 -->
00:41:29.119If you go longer than 30 minutes, though, there's a good chance that you're gonna get into some of the kinds of sleep that are harder to wake up from.
00:41:29.119 -->
00:41:37.119And so there could still be some benefit, but immediately after you wake up, it's gonna be a little bit harder to get back into the swing of things.
00:41:37.280 -->
00:41:37.599Okay.
00:41:38.079 -->
00:41:41.920Where um the impression I got was 20 to 30 minutes.
00:41:41.920 -->
00:41:49.280If you're we're talking about a workday nap, like during your work hours, 20 to 30 minutes is about as good as it's gonna get for you.
00:41:49.280 -->
00:42:14.480Where if it's a little different, like I would say, say, for example, you work all day and then like on a Friday, you work all day on Friday, and then you know you're gonna go out with your friends and you're gonna stay out late and you wanna have a little bit of juice to do that, then you could go up to 60 minutes or even maybe a little bit longer to replenish some of those, recharge some of those batteries so that when you go out, you'll be able to stay awake later.
00:42:14.480 -->
00:42:20.079But keep in mind it could also negatively, when you do finally get home, you might have a little bit more trouble getting to sleep.
00:42:20.480 -->
00:42:28.239I think that's was he saying that's because we're getting into the different sleep cycles or sleep stages when we're doing those longer naps.
00:42:28.480 -->
00:42:33.199Yeah, I think REM and deep sleep are both a little harder to get out of quickly.
00:42:33.199 -->
00:42:33.440Yeah.
00:42:33.440 -->
00:42:38.480Where light sleep is easier to get out of quickly, but it's less recharging than the other two as well.
00:42:38.880 -->
00:42:44.000Another point that he made, which is interesting, is a lot of people think REM sleep is is the good stuff.
00:42:44.000 -->
00:42:45.440And he said, no, no, no.
00:42:45.440 -->
00:42:49.440Light sleep, deep, deep sleep, and rem, they're all good stuff.
00:42:49.440 -->
00:42:49.840Right.
00:42:49.840 -->
00:42:51.599And it's not one is better than the other.
00:42:51.599 -->
00:42:53.519It's kind of where what you need, right?
00:42:53.519 -->
00:42:59.119And but REM, I think does a lot of the the repair that I think they were talking about, right?
00:42:59.119 -->
00:43:00.159Was that well is that right?
00:43:00.239 -->
00:43:01.760It's because REM is when the dreaming happens.
00:43:01.760 -->
00:43:01.920Yeah.
00:43:01.920 -->
00:43:09.920And then the dreaming happens is when um he he mentioned specifically for any negative experiences that you have.
00:43:09.920 -->
00:43:11.760Um the emotional regulation.
00:43:11.760 -->
00:43:12.239Right.
00:43:12.239 -->
00:43:23.119Rem Rem's job, part of Rem's job, is to allow you to hold on to the memory of those negative experiences without holding on to the negative emotions that you experienced while you were going through it.
00:43:23.360 -->
00:43:23.599Interesting.
00:43:23.599 -->
00:43:31.039And and that's probably why a lot of us look back on old relationships and things and with a fading effect bias.
00:43:31.199 -->
00:43:31.519Exactly.
00:43:31.599 -->
00:43:32.960And we're like, oh, it wasn't so bad.
00:43:33.119 -->
00:43:33.360Yes.
00:43:33.360 -->
00:43:41.920Meanwhile, it's it's part of Rem's job to let you look back on on previous things as less traumatic than they felt in the moment.
00:43:42.320 -->
00:43:48.480That's why it's a good idea to write yourself a note uh right in the moment when you're going through something traumatic.
00:43:49.280 -->
00:43:54.800So you're doing journaling just think yes, a journaling practice on for so many reasons is a good idea.
00:43:54.800 -->
00:43:55.039Yeah.
00:43:55.039 -->
00:43:58.239And I I've just gotten back into my my five-year journal, man.
00:43:58.239 -->
00:44:01.760I I see there are some gaps where I wrote for it the first time in 21.
00:44:01.920 -->
00:44:02.159Yeah.
00:44:02.320 -->
00:44:04.159And now like 20, like today.
00:44:04.159 -->
00:44:11.199Like I had my first entry was in 2021, and then my second entry for October 17th was 2025.
00:44:11.199 -->
00:44:13.360I completely skipped 22, 23, and 24.
00:44:13.760 -->
00:44:14.000Wow.
00:44:14.000 -->
00:44:14.320Okay.
00:44:14.320 -->
00:44:14.559Yeah.
00:44:14.559 -->
00:44:17.119I it's been a while since I've been, I have one as well.
00:44:17.119 -->
00:44:18.239I haven't put it in there.
00:44:18.239 -->
00:44:28.559But what's interesting is I just had a thought was a lot of times when I journal a little bit at right before bed or just plan my day, just like kind of look through all my appointments for the next day.
00:44:28.559 -->
00:44:32.400If I do that the night before, I usually sleep better.
00:44:32.400 -->
00:44:37.599And I'm wondering if that's because I need, I'm not getting enough REM sleep, probably.
00:44:37.599 -->
00:44:52.880And I'm wondering if I need less REM sleep because I'm not having emotions or things running through the back of my mind, like I don't know a little bit of like low-level anxiety of I don't know what's coming up the next day because I didn't look at it the night before.
00:44:52.880 -->
00:44:55.920Now, I don't have that if I've done that.
00:44:55.920 -->
00:45:02.079And maybe that's why I end up sleeping a little bit better or I feel like I've been sleeping a little bit better the next day.
00:45:02.320 -->
00:45:16.239Yeah, I wonder if uh from a strict uh from strict definition, I wonder if someone who is a light sleeper is spending more of their time in the light sleep cycle, if that's exactly what it means, or if it means other things.
00:45:16.239 -->
00:45:16.960I I don't know.
00:45:16.960 -->
00:45:18.639You know what I mean?
00:45:18.639 -->
00:45:19.360Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:45:19.360 -->
00:45:35.280Is it just your your body is more open to the stimulation around you in your sleep environment when you're a light sleeper, or is it that you literally spend more percentage of your time in light sleep than deeper than deep sleep sleep than somebody else?
00:45:35.440 -->
00:45:35.599Yeah.
00:45:35.840 -->
00:45:37.440So that that might be something for us to look up.
00:45:37.440 -->
00:45:38.800Let's talk about caffeine briefly.
00:45:38.800 -->
00:45:50.719And this is another this is where I am guilty of some magical thinking, which is, you know, I'm I'm happy to say, you know, anybody who is like, I can get by on four hours of sleep or five hours of sleep, they're a douchebag.
00:45:50.719 -->
00:45:52.320They don't know what they're talking about.
00:45:52.320 -->
00:46:00.400Um, where I make the mistake by saying, oh, caffeine, you know, coffee and caffeine late in the day, it doesn't affect my sleep at all.
00:46:00.400 -->
00:46:03.199Well, the evidence is it does affect it.
00:46:03.199 -->
00:46:05.599Now, I I don't experience some of the same.
00:46:05.599 -->
00:46:11.679I've got friends, um, maybe you, or you, or well, humble brag, right?
00:46:11.679 -->
00:46:19.039I've got friends that would say, Oh, if I have a cup of coffee after four o'clock in the afternoon or an espresso or something, I I won't be able to get to sleep.
00:46:19.039 -->
00:46:20.400Where I've never had that problem.
00:46:20.400 -->
00:46:30.880I can yeah, I can have a cup of espresso with dessert after dinner at 9 30 and then get you know, get home by 10 and pretty much fall asleep right away.
00:46:30.880 -->
00:46:38.320But what the science says is the quality of your sleep is not going to be as good as if you didn't have the caffeine.
00:46:38.480 -->
00:46:40.880Yeah, and that's I think the same case with alcohol.
00:46:40.880 -->
00:46:42.800Like you might be able to get to sleep a little bit better.
00:46:42.880 -->
00:46:46.159You feel like you're you fall asleep faster with the quality.
00:46:46.159 -->
00:46:50.800And he makes a good uh, and let's talk about alcohol and sleep medications.
00:46:50.800 -->
00:47:00.079The big thing that hit me in that section of the conversation was being asleep and being sedated are not the same thing.
00:47:00.079 -->
00:47:02.079Yeah.
00:47:02.079 -->
00:47:27.280And um of the things that happen to you while you're sedated overlap with some of the things that happen to you while you're asleep, but not enough of them to make you feel like, okay, if I am hammering the melatonin or the alcohol or the unisom or the benadryl or the whatever or the THC every night to get to sleep, that's not the same thing as falling asleep naturally.
00:47:27.280 -->
00:47:29.760And you're not getting the same health benefits.
00:47:29.760 -->
00:47:35.280So don't think that there is something that you know you shake out of a bottle that's going to give you the same thing.
00:47:35.280 -->
00:47:46.719And that's why he said, especially for chronic insomnia, the number one fix for that is going to be cognitive behavioral therapy, not something that comes out of a pill bottle.
00:47:46.880 -->
00:47:47.280Yeah.
00:47:47.280 -->
00:48:02.320And interestingly enough, um I feel like reflecting on your day, journaling, planning for the next day, there that's a little bit of uh some cognitive behavioral therapy there for yourself.
00:48:02.320 -->
00:48:24.239It's not not the official, but you are I still think through things uh and and you're using your brain to kind of, you know, it's obviously not exactly the same, but it it's still the same type of method where you are thinking through some things and you're kind of bringing yourself back into reality.
00:48:24.480 -->
00:48:27.280I mean, yes, it's certainly better than nothing, I would say.
00:48:27.280 -->
00:48:39.679And I mean, but the I mean, based based on the impression I got from what he said was that the cause of insomnia is anxiety, either anxiety in your mind or anxiety in your body.
00:48:39.679 -->
00:48:44.159And and the way to work through anxiety is through CBT.
00:48:44.239 -->
00:48:44.559Yeah.
00:48:44.800 -->
00:49:04.400And if there are other things, you know, non-chemical solutions that you can like routines or meditation, stretching, working out, going for a walk right in before bed, if there are things you can do to at least on some level make peace with your anxiety before you lay in the bed, then you should definitely do those things.
00:49:04.400 -->
00:49:15.599But for somebody with chronic insomnia where you are just not getting the rest that you need, then I think talking to somebody and and working through those root causes of that anxiety are going to be the way to do it.
00:49:15.840 -->
00:49:20.559Mostly at a level that is not going to be impacted by you know breathing techniques, right?
00:49:20.559 -->
00:49:20.719Right?
00:49:20.960 -->
00:49:21.119Yeah.
00:49:21.119 -->
00:49:21.440You know?
00:49:21.440 -->
00:49:22.639Yeah, absolutely.
00:49:22.639 -->
00:49:41.840Um, let's see, there was something else I wanted to say about um about oh, if you find yourself in bed and you can't get back to sleep or you can't get to sleep, he says 30 minutes is pretty much the window where if you're just laying there for 30 minutes trying to go back to sleep and you can't go back to sleep, there's a couple things.
00:49:41.840 -->
00:49:47.920You should probably get out of bed because you don't want to associate being in bed with not being able to sleep.
00:49:47.920 -->
00:49:50.719Um, so get up, do something else.
00:49:50.719 -->
00:49:57.840The other, the other course of action is, and and part of this is what are you capable of talking yourself into?
00:49:57.840 -->
00:50:02.800If you can talk yourself into, okay, whether I go to sleep or not, no big deal.
00:50:02.800 -->
00:50:07.119I am gonna lay here and I'm gonna relax and be as restful as I possibly can.
00:50:07.119 -->
00:50:08.639And that's gonna be good enough.
00:50:08.639 -->
00:50:10.719I'll still be able to, I'll get my job done tomorrow.
00:50:10.719 -->
00:50:19.199I'll be able to safely drive to work and back, and I will be able to perform adequately tomorrow, even if I just lay here and rest and and relax as much as I can.
00:50:19.360 -->
00:50:19.679Yeah.
00:50:19.920 -->
00:50:27.199If you can believe that, number one, you will still get some benefit from laying there and resting, even if you're not asleep.
00:50:27.199 -->
00:50:29.840And number two, you're also more likely to just fall asleep.
00:50:29.840 -->
00:50:51.039So it's either get up and do something that gets you out of the environment where you feel the high pressure to sleep, whether that's go watch TV, go sit at your desk, whatever it is, just get up and get out of the bed and then go back to the bed when you're tired, or make peace with the fact that you can be in bed not sleeping and still be okay with yourself.
00:50:51.039 -->
00:50:53.760The other thing he said is take all the clocks out of your bedroom.
00:50:53.760 -->
00:51:02.320If if you suffer from insomnia to the point where you wake up and you can't get back to sleep, and it makes you anxious because you're in watch the clock, yeah, move move along.
00:51:02.880 -->
00:51:14.960Was um was it Steven or or the doctor who said that they heard of a a technique or a rule where uh if you are gonna use your phone in your bedroom, yeah, you have to stand.
00:51:15.280 -->
00:51:15.519Yes.
00:51:15.519 -->
00:51:16.639I think it was the doctor.
00:51:16.800 -->
00:51:17.119Yeah.
00:51:17.119 -->
00:51:20.960So you can't, as soon as you sit down on your bed with your phone, uh, you're done.
00:51:20.960 -->
00:51:25.119So you can use your phone in your room, but you can only do it while you're standing.
00:51:25.280 -->
00:51:25.599Yes.
00:51:25.599 -->
00:51:26.800I thought that was interesting.
00:51:26.800 -->
00:51:27.679That is pretty good.
00:51:27.679 -->
00:51:33.840Yeah, the idea of you can have your phone in your room, you can use your phone in your room in your bedroom, but if you're gonna do it, do it standing up.
00:51:33.840 -->
00:51:45.199And I that's the yeah, I I probably I definitely do lean toward the side of doing too many things in my bed.
00:51:45.199 -->
00:52:00.960Where and and it used to drive my one of my ex-girlfriends crazy because if it was time to watch a movie, if it was time to spend time with each other, and and part of it was in my smaller RV, I didn't really have a lot of seating areas.
00:52:00.960 -->
00:52:06.960I had yeah, like the only TV was in the bedroom, and that was it.
00:52:06.960 -->
00:52:10.960And yeah, that didn't uh did I even have a TV in that bedroom?
00:52:10.960 -->
00:52:11.920I don't I don't remember.
00:52:11.920 -->
00:52:12.559Yeah, I did.
00:52:12.559 -->
00:52:15.280I had a TV up on the up on the wall and an arm.
00:52:15.280 -->
00:52:16.800And uh yeah, that was it.
00:52:16.800 -->
00:52:22.079If if we were gonna watch a movie, in my place it was laying in the bed, and she hated that.
00:52:22.079 -->
00:52:24.000She was like, no, the and she was right.
00:52:24.000 -->
00:52:25.360I mean, you know, yeah.
00:52:25.360 -->
00:52:26.880Hey, if you're listening, you were right.
00:52:26.880 -->
00:52:29.119The bed is for sex and the bed is for sleep.
00:52:29.119 -->
00:52:31.119And that should be the only thing that the bed is for.
00:52:31.119 -->
00:52:31.519Yep.
00:52:31.519 -->
00:52:33.840If you're watching a movie, go sit on the couch.
00:52:33.840 -->
00:52:37.599Because not to brag, my new RV has a couch, and it's a nice one too.
00:52:37.599 -->
00:52:46.960Um, but yeah, that is there there's science behind that idea that you you don't you don't lay in the bed to have a conversation, you don't lay in the bed to watch TV.
00:52:46.960 -->
00:52:50.880The lay in the bed is for sleeping and for sex.
00:52:51.119 -->
00:52:54.559Yeah, I mean, I go to a desk to do my my work.
00:52:54.559 -->
00:52:56.559I don't do it in the bed or in the bedroom.
00:52:56.559 -->
00:52:58.960Like I I know people have uh desks in their bedroom.
00:52:58.960 -->
00:53:00.320I could never do that.
00:53:00.320 -->
00:53:06.800It's just our brains are so associative with location and uh the experiences that we have.
00:53:06.960 -->
00:53:15.599So yeah, and I have uh I now have a uh a TV in my living room, and I have a TV in my bedroom.
00:53:15.599 -->
00:53:19.440And I find that I really didn't need the second TV for the living room.
00:53:19.440 -->
00:53:23.360I could have just moved the the bedroom because I never use the bedroom TV.
00:53:23.360 -->
00:53:30.239It's uh any media consumption, it's usually a podcast or something that I don't have to, you know.
00:53:30.239 -->
00:53:33.599It might be something on YouTube, but I'm not I don't care about what the video is.
00:53:33.599 -->
00:53:34.719I'm just listening to it.
00:53:34.719 -->
00:53:34.960Yep.
00:53:34.960 -->
00:53:40.880And so I listen to that on my phone, and the uh yeah, the bedroom TV is not seeing much use at all.
00:53:40.880 -->
00:53:45.840And I I actually have um I've got the TV in the living room on a stand.
00:53:45.840 -->
00:53:48.800So it's in that that sort of cubby where you would put a TV.
00:53:48.800 -->
00:53:50.800I mean, your old camper, you know where it is.
00:53:50.800 -->
00:53:54.159Uh, but it's on a stand where I can easily unplug it.
00:53:54.159 -->
00:54:02.159And then I also have some area on the um the kitchen counter where I can set the TV and then it's like right deadline right across from the couch.
00:54:02.159 -->
00:54:02.559Okay.
00:54:02.559 -->
00:54:13.199So I can I can move it around and uh and very easily watch watch TV from the couch, which is uh which is nice because yeah, the I believe them 100%.
00:54:13.199 -->
00:54:15.920So let me um hit a couple more things.
00:54:15.920 -->
00:54:27.119Number one, your blue light mode on your phone or your tablet is actually useful in so much as it depends on what you're doing on your phone or on your tablet.
00:54:27.119 -->
00:54:38.639So if you turn on nighttime mode where it minimizes the blue light, but you're still scrolling through social media, either getting excited or angry at what you're seeing, still not good.
00:54:38.639 -->
00:54:40.880And it's going to negatively affect your sleep.
00:54:40.880 -->
00:54:51.519If you are, you know, kind of consuming relaxing media on your phone or on your tablet and you're in in nighttime mode with the blue light turned off, then that there is some benefit to that.
00:54:51.599 -->
00:54:51.920Yep.
00:54:52.079 -->
00:54:58.320Um, the other thing he said was no screen 60 minutes before bed, which I I can't, I don't know that I can do that.
00:54:58.559 -->
00:55:00.000Oh, that's that's a hard ass for everybody.
00:55:00.239 -->
00:55:00.800Yeah.
00:55:00.800 -->
00:55:09.360Um and also he said, turn down the lights in your place as it gets close to dark, which I that's already a habit of mine anyway.
00:55:09.360 -->
00:55:14.079I I don't keep bright overhead lights on when it's not absolutely necessary.
00:55:14.079 -->
00:55:18.000So basically, if I'm cooking or I'm doing paperwork, then I've got bright lights on.
00:55:18.000 -->
00:55:20.880If it's anything else, then the lights are not on.
00:55:20.880 -->
00:55:21.440Yeah.
00:55:21.440 -->
00:55:23.119Um let's see.
00:55:23.119 -->
00:55:30.320He does he does talk about the link between trying to, we we talked about trying to lose weight on poor sleep.
00:55:30.320 -->
00:55:33.119It's going to just eat your muscle instead of your fats.
00:55:33.119 -->
00:55:34.480That is, that is very tough.
00:55:34.480 -->
00:55:48.000And he said, um, there are fewer, I'm trying to remember how he said it, but he basically said there are fewer correlations in medical science as solid as the fact that if you sleep poorly, you are going to be overweight.
00:55:48.000 -->
00:55:48.320Yeah.
00:55:48.400 -->
00:55:51.360That is just I mean, I will see it on a day-to-day basis.
00:55:51.360 -->
00:55:54.960If I don't sleep well the next day, I haven't I haven't dropped any weight.
00:55:54.960 -->
00:55:57.519Like I'm I'm either the same or more.
00:55:57.519 -->
00:56:01.840And you know, with regardless of of what I ate the day before.
00:56:02.239 -->
00:56:12.639Yeah, he said that uh if you wake up uh after a bad night of sleep, your body is usually just going to instruct you to eat an additional three or four hundred calories.
00:56:12.880 -->
00:56:13.039Yeah.
00:56:13.039 -->
00:56:25.039So I think I think for when that's happening, I think that is, in all fairness, water weight, your body is holding on to extra fluid is it in terms of protecting yourself because it realizes, hey, yeah, I'm not getting what I need.
00:56:25.280 -->
00:56:26.079What you see on the scale.
00:56:26.079 -->
00:56:26.480Correct.
00:56:26.480 -->
00:56:30.800But the motivation to eat another three or four hundred calories the next time that will add up.
00:56:30.800 -->
00:56:36.880Yeah, that that's all hormone-based, I think, with the uh what is it, the ghrelin and the uh and leptin, yeah.
00:56:36.880 -->
00:56:46.960And uh yeah, you if if you're trying to maintain or lose an extra three or four hundred calories a day is gonna make either of those yeah, you know, significant.
00:56:46.960 -->
00:56:50.800I go for these five and a half mile walks and they're good for like 700 calories.
00:56:50.800 -->
00:56:56.400It's ridiculous how how little how little walking around actually you know burns.
00:56:56.400 -->
00:57:03.840It's so unfair because one one good one fancy donut is is gonna blow that away, or one crumble cookie is gonna blow that away.
00:57:03.840 -->
00:57:05.920So it's completely unfair.
00:57:05.920 -->
00:57:12.239Um, I did want to say, oh, I've got 10 action steps and I want to read through these.
00:57:12.239 -->
00:57:20.719So if you if if you're willing to take on having better sleep like I am, um see how many of these you're already doing or are willing to do.
00:57:20.719 -->
00:57:24.559Number one, keep a fixed bedtime and a fixed wake time.
00:57:24.559 -->
00:57:25.840I can do that.
00:57:25.840 -->
00:57:29.760I'm not doing it right now, but I can do that and I I should do that and I will do that.
00:57:29.760 -->
00:57:30.800Uh, how about you?
00:57:31.039 -->
00:57:32.880It's uh yeah, except for weekends.
00:57:32.880 -->
00:57:33.519Can't do it.
00:57:33.760 -->
00:57:34.639Can't can't.
00:57:34.639 -->
00:57:36.079Can't or won't.
00:57:36.480 -->
00:57:38.000Won't won't.
00:57:38.000 -->
00:57:42.719I I yeah, I just um your schedule changes quite a bit on the weekend?
00:57:42.719 -->
00:57:49.280Yeah, enough to where it is usually three hours past when I normally go to sleep.
00:57:49.519 -->
00:57:50.960You want me to give you a tip on that?
00:57:50.960 -->
00:57:53.119Learn to hate live music.
00:57:53.119 -->
00:57:54.719That has really worked at live.
00:57:54.719 -->
00:57:55.599Workers for me.
00:57:55.599 -->
00:57:56.559Yeah, work I love.
00:57:56.559 -->
00:57:59.199Not not having a uh, yeah.
00:57:59.199 -->
00:58:07.920If you if you hate uh if you hate drinking alcohol and you hate live music, it's a lot easier to keep that uh weekend schedule exactly the same as the weekday.
00:58:07.920 -->
00:58:08.719So sure.
00:58:08.719 -->
00:58:10.639Um dim your lights one hour before bed.
00:58:10.639 -->
00:58:11.280We talked about that.
00:58:11.280 -->
00:58:12.159Keep your bedroom cool.
00:58:12.159 -->
00:58:14.639He said 65 to 68 is a sweet spot.
00:58:14.639 -->
00:58:17.519Uh cut caffeine afternoon.
00:58:19.920 -->
00:58:22.400Just cut caffeine all together like I did.
00:58:22.400 -->
00:58:23.280Have you?
00:58:23.280 -->
00:58:23.760I have.
00:58:23.760 -->
00:58:37.760I mean, I will uh I mean I've been I so I haven't been like zero caffeine, but I've probably over the last month I've had maybe three or four cups of regular coffee and maybe one or two caffeinated sodas.
00:58:37.760 -->
00:58:38.719Wow.
00:58:38.719 -->
00:58:39.199Yeah.
00:58:39.199 -->
00:58:40.800And it it has helped my sleep.
00:58:40.800 -->
00:58:41.360Interesting.
00:58:41.360 -->
00:58:43.280Yeah, I was I I cut it back.
00:58:43.280 -->
00:58:52.400So I stopped at two, and then I stopped having caffeine at noon, and then I stopped altogether, and I f I feel better.
00:58:52.400 -->
00:58:54.480I mean, I I don't avoid it.
00:58:54.480 -->
00:59:01.039I you know, I I don't so if I'm a girlfriend, she makes great coffee, uh, you know, we'll have a cup or whatever together.
00:59:01.440 -->
00:59:02.239That's a fancy machine.
00:59:02.559 -->
00:59:03.920Yeah, it's it's it's delicious.
00:59:03.920 -->
00:59:06.320And so I'll I'll do that once in a while.
00:59:06.320 -->
00:59:06.880Yeah.
00:59:06.880 -->
00:59:10.079Um, not even once a week, maybe once every two weeks now.
00:59:10.079 -->
00:59:12.320Um, but it's it's been more than a month.
00:59:12.320 -->
00:59:16.960Um, yeah, the headaches, they're there for the first week because you're withdrawing, but after that.
00:59:17.440 -->
00:59:19.920See, I've stopped caffeine and I've not had the headaches.
00:59:19.920 -->
00:59:23.519I wonder if that's related to Well, you're probably very quick metabolic.
00:59:23.599 -->
00:59:24.559I think you're a quick metabolite.
00:59:24.800 -->
00:59:34.079Yeah, I wonder if you're not going to be able to say, yeah, I wonder if it's the same thing that that lets me seemingly drink it all day without feeling impact, you know, also lets me get off of it without the headaches.
00:59:34.079 -->
00:59:38.079I've never I've never had the caffeine headache that I can remember from from giving it up.
00:59:38.079 -->
00:59:44.159And I, you know, I've done like some juice cleanses and stuff where I I haven't had coffee and I've I've not had the headaches.
00:59:44.159 -->
00:59:47.920Um avoid alcohol within three hours of bed.
00:59:47.920 -->
00:59:49.360Um that's easy for me.
00:59:49.360 -->
00:59:53.679I uh use bed only for sleep and sex, which I'm pretty much there now.
00:59:53.679 -->
00:59:54.239Yeah.
00:59:54.239 -->
00:59:59.840Um get up after 30 minutes awake, meaning don't lay in bed in 30 minutes.
00:59:59.840 -->
01:00:06.719Minutes even I I can't because I'm a lion and I wake up and I've I am hungry and I am energized when I wake up.
01:00:06.719 -->
01:00:12.480So I know I want to get out of bed, I want to make my coffee, I want to have a snack, and I want to get out the door on my walk.
01:00:12.480 -->
01:00:14.960Um like I'm I'm not a big snoozer.
01:00:14.960 -->
01:00:16.000Are you a snoozer?
01:00:16.000 -->
01:00:16.400No.
01:00:16.400 -->
01:00:17.440Yeah, me neither.
01:00:17.440 -->
01:00:27.199When nope, uh I might I might snooze once, yeah, but never and and on that test, it basically categorizes zero to one snoozes versus many snoozes.
01:00:27.199 -->
01:00:28.800Those are like the two choices you have.
01:00:29.199 -->
01:00:31.039I actually don't wake up with an alarm clock.
01:00:31.039 -->
01:00:34.239I mean, it's I wake up before my I set one as an emergency.
01:00:35.039 -->
01:00:36.159I usually wake up before my two.
01:00:36.480 -->
01:00:38.639And so I like to wake up on my own.
01:00:38.639 -->
01:00:48.320Uh, it's a lot less disruptive, it's a lot less anxiety when you hear when you don't hear even like these gentle alarms and stuff sometimes just really like jerk me out of bed.
01:00:48.320 -->
01:00:56.239So I try to plan my days so that I don't need to be, you know, I I've got that emergency cutoff just in case I'm I had a horrible night's sleep and I end up sleeping late.
01:00:56.320 -->
01:01:13.599But usually sleep before I wake up before my you know, one of the things I missed about my old uh the original or fairly old uh Fitbits were that they had a thing where you could program it to say, okay, I need to be awake at 6 a.m.
01:01:13.599 -->
01:01:14.320Yep.
01:01:14.320 -->
01:01:21.920And then it would basically find when you were in light sleep based on your body movement before 6 a.m.
01:01:21.920 -->
01:01:25.280It would it wouldn't let you get back into deeper REM.
01:01:25.280 -->
01:01:32.480It would say, oh, okay, you know, you're you're 35 minutes away from the time you want to wake up and you're in light sleep right now, so I'm gonna wake you up right now.
01:01:32.480 -->
01:01:34.079Oh, that's nice, and that was nice.
01:01:34.079 -->
01:01:37.679I I yeah, I might need to see if uh we were talking before we recorded.
01:01:37.679 -->
01:01:54.480I've got the Apple Watch 2 Ultra now, and it is a little based on the the actual body of the watch and the metallic um uh titanium band that I like, it's a little bulkier than when I had my Apple Watch six, so it's a little harder to sleep with.
01:01:54.480 -->
01:02:00.320But if I could find something, an app for that where it would basically say, okay, you know, wear it all night.
01:02:00.320 -->
01:02:06.320We're gonna monitor your sleep, and when we can tell that you're in light sleep before your alarm, we'll wake you up then.
01:02:06.320 -->
01:02:08.480Yeah, I might look at switching back to that.
01:02:08.480 -->
01:02:10.159Um, we'll see.
01:02:10.159 -->
01:02:13.360Um, he says, don't rely on weekends for catching up.
01:02:13.360 -->
01:02:15.440The catching up on sleep is a myth.
01:02:15.440 -->
01:02:18.960You know, you can you can get a little bit of it back by sleeping extra.
01:02:18.960 -->
01:02:25.599Like if you don't sleep or only sleep for a couple hours, the very next day, if you sleep a little longer, you'll get some of that back.
01:02:25.599 -->
01:02:25.920Yeah.
01:02:25.920 -->
01:02:29.679But there's no screwing yourself out of sleep all week and then making up for it on the weekend.
01:02:29.679 -->
01:02:30.800That it doesn't work that way.
01:02:30.800 -->
01:02:31.119Yeah.
01:02:31.119 -->
01:02:33.119Uh meditate 10 minutes nightly.
01:02:33.119 -->
01:02:35.280Nighttime meditation is tough for me.
01:02:35.280 -->
01:02:38.719I can meditate for 10 minutes a day, but I usually have to do it in the morning.
01:02:38.719 -->
01:02:39.199Yep.
01:02:39.199 -->
01:02:41.760Um I'll try it though.
01:02:41.760 -->
01:02:43.679I'm not gonna just dismiss it out of hand.
01:02:43.679 -->
01:02:47.280I I mean, I'll even try the cutting caffeine afternoon.
01:02:47.280 -->
01:02:47.920Yeah.
01:02:47.920 -->
01:02:48.320A little.
01:02:48.559 -->
01:02:49.039I'm curious.
01:02:49.199 -->
01:02:50.800But that's gonna be tough.
01:02:50.800 -->
01:02:51.119Yeah.
01:02:51.119 -->
01:03:05.039Um and then track how you know, if you do make some of these improvements and you do get better consistent sleep, try to notice through journaling whether the positive benefits are there for you and give it a week before you decide that this is horseshit.
01:03:05.039 -->
01:03:06.239I'm not gonna keep doing this.
01:03:06.239 -->
01:03:07.440So good.
01:03:07.440 -->
01:03:08.800Those are the uh pieces of advice.
01:03:08.800 -->
01:03:11.679All right, Dan, let's stop there and I will uh talk to you next time.
01:03:11.679 -->
01:03:12.559Sounds good.
01:03:12.559 -->
01:03:15.760Okay, that wraps up this episode of the Mindfully Masculine Podcast.
01:03:15.760 -->
01:03:22.719We hope our conversation about sleep gave you a few practical ways to rest better, recover faster, and show up as your best self.
01:03:22.719 -->
01:03:26.639If you know someone who might benefit from or enjoy this episode, please share it with them.
01:03:26.639 -->
01:03:28.880It's one of the best ways to support the show.
01:03:28.880 -->
01:03:32.559Thank you for listening to the entire episode, and we'll talk to you next time.
