Speaker Coaching with Tom Hicks | Episode 21

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Welcome to Mic Drop Mindset, the podcast where you learn how to grow your speaking business and learn presentation skills.
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Today I'm joined virtually by Tom Hicks.
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Welcome to the studio, Tom.
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Thanks for having me, Jen.
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I appreciate you making this work virtually.
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Yeah, I appreciate you stretching me to do this virtually.
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Usually I bring folks into my studio here in Minneapolis, but you don't live in Minneapolis, and you very kindly were able to send a podcast review.
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I'd love to hear what you'd like to talk on today.
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Well, first of all, I've listened to all of your podcasts and I learned something new every time.
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And I'm excited to learn with and from you today.
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I am curious to learn more and kind of dive into potential target market or markets for me.
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Perfect.
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Okay, so target market is a great topic.
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And there's a lot that goes into this.
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So before we start on potential target markets for you, can you tell us a little bit more about what your talk is and who you deliver it for?
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Yes.
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My talk is about fear of failure.
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And so fear of failure keeps people and teams from trying new things, adapting to change and growing because they've never had a safe or low-stakes way to practice failure.
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And so what I do is I set the room up physically and emotionally in a way that allows people to literally learn how to juggle three balls over the course of 45, 60, 75 minutes and practice that embracing failure, allowing themselves to celebrate some success.
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And it's worked for a number of different groups.
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It is a relatively broad, fun and fundamental talk.
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And I am curious to know if there are more specific groups or some of the groups that I've worked with in the past that might be a better opportunity for me going forward.
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Wow.
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That does sound like it's a lot of fun.
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And I've seen pictures of you delivering on stage with your balls, you're juggling.
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We're only here for 30 minutes, so I don't know if I have enough time to learn how to juggle with you, Tom, but I wish I did.
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And that sounds like you have to carry a lot of balls with you for your audiences.
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I do.
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I have a few suitcases, and they seem to keep growing as the audiences continue to grow.
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That's amazing.
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Okay, so fear of failure, and it's helping people be uncomfortable for a while as they're learning a new skill, which is something you do with them and teach them how to do when they're in the room with you.
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So that leads me to believe are there certain rooms that are a better like I'm thinking of different stages that you could be on.
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There's, you know, the big huge keynote stages, stadium size, whatever.
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Is that conducive to juggling into the experiential portion of what you offer?
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Yeah, you're hitting on part of the reason why I wanted to explore this question today or this topic today, Jen.
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And it's because I've been in a few auditoriums with traditional auditorium seating, and that works fine, but especially if they're sloped, those balls tend to roll towards the front of the room, and there's lots of seating in the middle.
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And so rooms with tables and chairs tend to work a little bit better when people can get up and move and have a little bit of space.
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And so I'm also exploring, I know this might not be exactly on topic, but the idea of once I get into some larger rooms, I don't know if everybody in the room is going to be able to juggle.
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So do I bring up two or three or five people on stage, and they are essentially the models.
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They are the people who do that and demonstrate while everybody else is there.
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As for other places that have worked really well, yeah, oftentimes college campuses have some sort of mini ballroom that have an actual stage, but have round tables and seating or even seats in a line will allow people to have a little bit more room to move around and they won't be on top of each other.
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Got it.
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So it sounds like the spacing is important and the style of seating is important.
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Having a table might be more conducive to what you're doing.
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I I know you're in the Midwest.
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Do you do you want to travel?
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Give considering you have to carry some supplies with you to your events.
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Do you prefer to travel?
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Do you prefer to stay local?
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What is the preference there?
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I try to stay within a day's drive.
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I'm okay doing it overnight somewhere.
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You know, within eight or nine hours, I'm willing to do.
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Um I'm based in Iowa, so I've gone to Columbus and Sioux City and Manhattan, Kansas, and the Twin Cities.
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I would prefer to do that rather than try to fly with a few suitcases.
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Yeah, I can imagine.
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Travel and expenses and packaging and all that stuff.
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And you don't want to lose any of your supplies just before as well.
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I hope next time you're in the Twin Cities you come visit with me and we have a coffee.
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But okay, so there's some things to consider also, and if you don't want to use straight numbers, that's okay, but like what have you charged for this keynote talk, or is there a certain feature you're searching for?
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Yeah, good question.
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And I'm trying to be transparent about this.
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Right now, I am getting a handful of talks between$2,000 and$2,500.
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I would like to get that up to the three to four thousand dollar range.
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I'm currently working on my first actual official speaker reel.
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Nice that should be done in the next month.
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Um, and so I've been fortunate to have decent uh success and progress without some of these pieces in place.
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And so, yeah, that's that's my goal.
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This is a side gig for me and looking to continue to grow.
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Perfect.
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Okay, so now we've gone through the kind of overall umbrella of logistics there.
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What are some audiences that really resonated the most so far with this talk?
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Great question.
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I'm gonna go really broad first and say that women the age between the ages of 35 and 65 just really seem to enjoy this session, this experience.
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And men aged 25 to 35.
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And so when I think of the people who end up chatting me up afterwards and are interested in exploring and might follow up via email or might be looking to book me somewhere else, those are the really general large populations that I've been able to distill down a little bit.
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Past that, uh, I am a career educator, both my parents were teachers.
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I've done this for a couple of school districts.
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They are the best audience for me.
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They just eat it up and we have a blast together.
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Similar professionals.
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I've had good luck with both Sherm and uh Coupa or Coupa higher ed HR and have continuing gigs with some of those groups, and they seem to be looking for something like this and enjoy the fun but also the developmental side of it.
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One thing in in anticipating this, I dug into of in the past year and a half ninety close to ninety-eight percent of I think ninety-seven percent of my gigs came through women reaching out or booking me.
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There were about five who did not that originated with men, but only one actually started and ended with a man recommending me and and booking me.
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And so overwhelmingly it is groups of women for some reason.
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Well, that's an interesting awareness and market research item to pay attention to.
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Okay.
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Um and one thing I forgot to ask as well is do you offer any sort of program or coaching, consulting, coursework, book, anything of that nature on stage?
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Not yet.
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I've just gotten into selling some custom jugging juggling balls, but nothing into that realm yet, Jen.
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Got it, got it.
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So at this point, it's just speaking for the sake of speaking and being in the room and getting the experience with folks at this point.
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Yes.
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Perfect.
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Okay.
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You hit on a couple of things, and I always like to focus on the low-hanging fruit with people who are getting out there, putting their name out there, getting these gigs on their own.
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First, we look at how do we multiply what's already working really well.
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So you mentioned that educators, schools are a really great fit.
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When you say schools, do you mean like K through 12?
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Do you mean like college university?
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What level of schools?
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Yeah, thanks for following up on that.
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Both.
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When I talk about schools, it's often K through 12, and it is the staff and faculty.
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Less so the students, it's staff and faculty.
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So welcome back or enrichment events in late July or early August have been really popular.
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And I've worked my entire career, my day job has always been in higher education.
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And so I have a natural connection to higher education that often gets me in the door for some of those gigs.
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Nice.
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Nice.
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The reason I ask that too is because even in the college-university market, you can present for staff or you can present for the students.
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And so young adults might also be a good fit there.
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And it's sometimes easy to approach campus activities and sororities and fraternities, and especially when you know that women tend to be the people who refer you more.
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Maybe a sorority might be a good fit for you.
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And I know you you work at a university as well.
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So where are those warm leads?
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Where are those warm referrals?
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And then the second piece of that would be can you get referral business from people who have already heard you speak?
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Do you already have a follow-up process in place?
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I have a minimal follow-up process other than my LinkedIn profile.
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I've done no marketing yet.
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And like I said, don't have that video yet and have worked entirely on referrals so far.
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And I know that won't always be the case.
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I can't plan on that.
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And so this conversation is helping me figure out what those next steps are.
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Well, congratulations, Tom.
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I I mean, it's really hard to put yourself out there and get so many word-of-mouth referrals.
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So obviously you're doing something right, and people are really loving the content you're putting out there and how you're delivering it.
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So kudos to you because that is really hard to do as you're sidegiging and growing that side of what you offer.
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I really do think that's a huge thing to be celebrated.
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So congratulations for the momentum you're building so far.
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As I think of, you know, potential audiences when it comes to speaking.
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So for you, because you don't offer upsells or a coaching package or anything from stage, it would make sense for you to have an endless or limitless source of referrals from stage.
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So when I think about markets that are really good for those endless referrals, what comes to mind is associations.
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So for example, an educators association, and I don't have specific ones off the top of my head, but that could help kind of kick off the research there.
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You know, associations are great because they can start at the local level, then go to regional, then go to national, and then international, if the case may be.
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So those might be good places for you to really get the word of mouth, but also get those warm referrals.
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People have heard you before.
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They might be part of listserves, they might have trade publications that they offer or online publications.
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And that could be part of your package as well.
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When you're talking about a speaking opportunity, you could ask them, hey, do you have a newsletter?
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Is there something I can like create a custom video to promote the events?
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Things of that nature could be part of your upsell or your package as well.
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But when I say associations, is that a market you've explored before?
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A little bit.
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I I haven't really done a whole lot of intentional outreach.
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And my intent is to, once I have this speaker reel done, is to I've done sessions for some SHERM, regional SHERM groups, and the same thing with associations for talent development groups.
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And so my hope is to take testimonials from there, my new video and my package or my talk, and to reach out to some of those groups to see if they would be interested to say, hey, I did this with this group just like yours.
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Would you be interested as well?
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And so I am interested.
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I have not made a whole lot of steps in that direction yet.
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That's my goal in third quarter this year.
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Perfect.
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Perfect.
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It sounds like you're very clear on what the next steps are with the people you've already connected with, delivered great value for.
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When it comes to outreach for new markets and potential markets, I do have a resource and I'm happy to link that in the comments below.
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It's free.
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There's no opt-in or anything like that.
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And I can share it directly with you, Tom.
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But it's it kind of gives you a head start with some of lists of different associations.
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You can search by what they're meeting around.
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You can search by size of the organization.
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Another thing that really comes to mind for me for your talk is this fear of failure.
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Nonprofits usually have like galas and events that are the end of the year.
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You know, usually June and July is when they're determining their budgets for the following year.
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Sometimes there's some dollars left over in May and June to finish out that year before they get approved for the next year.
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But galas can be a great source of um, you know, they do want more of that entertainment factor.
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They do want something more experiential.
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And I feel like, you know, some of the challenges they have are, you know, how to get volunteer members together, you know, on the same path.
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So I imagine there are many, you know, foibles along the way for them.
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What do you think about nonprofit?
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That's a little bit of how I cut my teeth last year when I got into this.
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And but not an event like that.
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And so if anything, I've been a part of some enrichment days, so kind of annual get together.
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We're gonna have some fun, do some development, get to know each other a little bit better, but nothing is form on Zagala.
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And I would love to do that.
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I think that would be a great environment, a great opportunity to add a little bit of fun, a little bit of learning to a celebratory event.
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Absolutely.
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And I also feel like you'd be, you could potentially also be very specific to different corporate groups.
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Just, you know, paying in mind that you have women of a certain age group to seem to really resonate with what you're talking about.
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I always like to encourage folks who are trying to get into corporate and different groups.
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HR is one place you could go to, and it seems like that is a good opportunity for you as well.
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But then there are other departments within HR that also might be a fit for you, like outside of HR, I mean.
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And that could be like employee resource groups, like women's leadership groups.
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Um I recently spoke for Medtronic through a women's leadership group, and then they had other ancillary leadership groups within that.
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Sometimes they do virtual as opposed to in-person.
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That could be a way to get your foot in the door of different groups within companies.
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And it doesn't necessarily have to be like a Fortune 500 company.
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It could be a credit union, a bank, a community organization, things of that nature.
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But is that something?
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Do you think that might be a good fit for you?
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Yeah, I hadn't thought of that yet.
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And I don't know why I hadn't thought of that.
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I've participated in those groups in the past in different contexts, and that totally skipped my mind.
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So I appreciate that reminder totally.
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I think that would be a great place to start.
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Oh, yeah.
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Yeah.
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I just feel like that topic and what you're doing is not your traditional talking head kind of boring topic.
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So I really think it would resonate well.
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And some of these groups also hold like annual events or member appreciation types of events.
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So that might also be a good fit for you.
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That could be a potential market for you.
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One other market that's coming to mind as we're talking through this is Chambers of Commerce.
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Have you connected with your local chambers of commerce?
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Yeah, so yeah, where I am, in order to be considered for chambers of commerce events, you need to be a member.
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I'm not there yet, but I hope to be.
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But through some association for talent development uh contacts and some events I've done for them, they've connected me with a couple of other local chambers of commerce.
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And so I just did my first one two months ago and it went really well.
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So that's another group that I'm hoping once I get this video uh together, I can reach out to some others in the area to see if they might be interested.
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So I appreciate that reminder.
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Of course.
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I mean, it sounds like you've got umpteen different markets that you could approach.
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Which of the markets we've discussed so far feels like, yes, that's absolutely where I need to be in the next six months.
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Yeah, I I'm gonna go two ways on this, Jen.
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One, I would really like to explore, do some more school districts, that they are a natural fit, they are my people, and we just have fun together.
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I always assumed, you know, teachers know about growth mindset and continuous improvement.
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That's what they talked about with their students.
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I said I said, I'm not gonna teach them anything.
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Well, what I learned is they get to rediscover and actually do this and and do it live in the room, which they don't often get to do themselves.
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And so that that's one.
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And then two, I'm actually one of the tabs on my computer right now is to apply for a national fraternity and sorority conference.
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I'm a former uh Greek advisor.
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I worked and advised those groups for years and years, was actually connected with this organization twenty years ago, and had the idea from a friend who's still in that world that there might be some opportunity there.
00:16:20.639 --> 00:16:31.679
And if I'm able to be selected for the national conference, which is a you know, I'm not expecting that, but there would be opportunities for future referrals for groups on campuses and other parts of the country.
00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:35.679
So yeah, those are those are the two things that are really exciting me right now.
00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:36.559
Awesome.
00:16:36.720 --> 00:16:37.759
Well, thank you for sharing that.
00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:39.759
And it sounds like you're making some really good strides.
00:16:39.919 --> 00:16:44.480
You mentioned that it's mostly a word of mouth, but it sounds like you're doing some outreach on your own as well.
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:48.399
So it sounds like you've got some good processes in place so far.
00:16:48.639 --> 00:16:52.320
What does your follow-up process look like after you're done speaking?
00:16:52.639 --> 00:16:54.799
I make sure to send a thank you right away.
00:16:55.120 --> 00:16:58.879
I might even give it in person or drop it in the mail as I'm leaving town.
00:16:59.039 --> 00:17:04.079
And then within a week after, I seek out testimonials.
00:17:04.319 --> 00:17:20.160
That's not the first thing I ask for, but I send a message or reconnect if I can to get feedback and any feedback that they have about the event, to seek out testimonials, and then ask if there's anybody else they think would be interested or I might be a good fit for.
00:17:20.480 --> 00:17:23.920
I'm not as consistent with this conversation as I probably should be.
00:17:24.160 --> 00:17:26.960
I don't have really a list of questions or anything.
00:17:27.039 --> 00:17:28.960
You know, I think I just gave you what I do.
00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:33.519
I don't have it formalized yet, but I know it's worth doing, so I at least try to do something.
00:17:33.680 --> 00:17:36.559
So any ideas you have there, I would appreciate.
00:17:37.119 --> 00:17:41.039
Well, I mean, it sounds like you have some good, a good start to what you're doing.
00:17:41.119 --> 00:17:43.519
And I'm not an expert on follow-up at all.
00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:49.519
I think there are some other people who perhaps do a better job of follow-up with me, but there are tools that make follow-up a little bit easier.
00:17:49.599 --> 00:17:52.160
And of course, um, they always say fortune is in the follow-up.
00:17:52.319 --> 00:17:56.000
I like to say the relationship is in the follow-up because it's great to deliver once.
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:58.480
It's even better when you deliver consistently.
00:17:58.720 --> 00:18:01.359
So I like to use tools, and for me, it's a spreadsheet.
00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:04.160
I come from the spreadsheet world, so I track all of things.
00:18:04.319 --> 00:18:05.440
I pay attention to dates.
00:18:05.519 --> 00:18:10.559
So depending on what market you're speaking for, you know, there are certain dates that it's their busy time.
00:18:10.640 --> 00:18:13.359
They're probably not gonna respond to anything you send back to them.
00:18:13.519 --> 00:18:22.559
For example, I spoke for a school association back in March, and I I followed up with them, and they're like, oh, this is the busiest time of year because we're trying to get these kids out the door.
00:18:22.720 --> 00:18:44.240
So, like, you know, just being aware of what their timeline looks like and um putting some teasers for yourself to remind yourself of, okay, I'm gonna check in with them before they start their new season or before, you know, for in your case, if it's a school of school event on before school starts for the year, you know, when maybe just the adults are in the are in the school, that sort of thing.
00:18:44.400 --> 00:18:49.680
Paying attention to their timeline, your timeline, and using tools to make it easier, I guess, is what I would say.
00:18:49.839 --> 00:18:52.480
Do you use uh the talk a dot service at all?
00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:56.160
I tested it out for the first time a couple of months ago.
00:18:56.319 --> 00:19:01.680
I like it, and I wasn't ready or didn't have the budget to pay for it yet.
00:19:01.759 --> 00:19:10.000
And so I've essentially replicated that same, those questions through a Google form right now in order to get some of that feedback.
00:19:10.160 --> 00:19:11.839
There's there's definitely potential there.
00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:19.599
Yeah, and I I appreciate knowing you know everyone's at a different level, and I found that talk a dot at the free level can also be very helpful.
00:19:19.680 --> 00:19:20.880
They've done a lot of upgrades.
00:19:21.039 --> 00:19:28.400
I'm at one of the lighter levels right now, and they do have built-in services to you know reach out to the event planner to get a testimonial.
00:19:28.559 --> 00:19:39.519
And there are certainly ways you can get testimonials while you're at the event itself, so it doesn't become another to-do on their list because you know how many times do we say, I'm gonna get to that email, and then we never do.
00:19:39.680 --> 00:19:50.079
If you can capture anything on site at the event itself, if it's a multi-day event, you know, are there other things you can participate in and have those more informal conversations, get video content at that time?
00:19:50.240 --> 00:19:52.480
That would be, of course, best case scenario.
00:19:52.720 --> 00:19:58.559
Sometimes it's not possible, but if it is possible, you know, that way it saves them the work of having to respond to you.
00:19:58.640 --> 00:20:00.880
But um, I do find Taca Dot very helpful as well.
00:20:01.039 --> 00:20:02.480
I love that you've replicated it.
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:04.160
You're like, I understand what they're doing.
00:20:04.240 --> 00:20:07.920
I'm just gonna replicate the same thing and figure it out along the way.
00:20:08.160 --> 00:20:12.880
What pieces do you think would be most helpful around follow-up that you haven't been able to implement quite yet?
00:20:13.119 --> 00:20:14.240
Well, let me think about this.
00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:26.640
I am never sure, either with cold, even with warm outreach and follow-up, how direct, how how to word it, because I'm often asking for a favor or for them to consider something or to respond.
00:20:26.880 --> 00:20:31.759
What what what that could look like or how I should sound or how it should come off.
00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:41.359
I know enough to put some time into it to be gentle and kind and uh make sure I I recognize that I'm asking for a little bit of their time in response.
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:49.119
But sometimes I feel like I'm just being really forward uh in and saying, Hey, we talked about getting a testimonial, can you send it my way?
00:20:49.519 --> 00:20:58.160
And yeah, I just maybe how you feel or recommendations on on uh your mindset uh going into doing some of that follow-up.
00:20:59.119 --> 00:21:00.160
Mindset on follow-up.
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:05.119
I think I feel like we could do an entire podcast on that episode on that topic alone.
00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:13.440
Yeah, so I think the tension there isn't am I bothering this person who, you know, kind of spoke on my behalf, brought me to their stage.
00:21:13.680 --> 00:21:20.559
What I would say is I've had to learn this over the years, is I have to not let my own story get in the way.
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:26.720
And that means I probably have to reach out more often and more quickly than I would have believed I should.
00:21:26.799 --> 00:21:30.240
So for example, respond within 24 hours after the event.
00:21:30.400 --> 00:21:34.960
Maybe here's photos or here's you know, the event photos, or I had such a great time.
00:21:35.039 --> 00:21:40.400
Thanks for having me, or even just soliciting that testimonial right away if you weren't able to do it at the event.
00:21:40.559 --> 00:21:45.920
I would push that earlier than a week later, just because the momentum can sometimes be lost in that process.
00:21:46.079 --> 00:21:54.640
And I've also learned that multiple touch points of follow up, even if you have to schedule it so you don't have to look at it and be like, oh gosh, I'm bothering them one more time.
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:59.759
It's more of being clear about what it is you're looking for and making it easy.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:00.880
For them to respond.
00:22:00.960 --> 00:22:03.359
So if there are ways you can make it easier for them to respond.
00:22:03.599 --> 00:22:06.160
Sometimes I find it helpful with event planners.
00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:11.839
Some of the event planners are younger and prefer a text message or a quick audio message or something like that.
00:22:12.000 --> 00:22:16.799
So finding other ways that they prefer to communicate might also get some better results there.
00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:18.480
I know I don't like to be in email.
00:22:18.720 --> 00:22:21.680
So if somebody has my phone number, I'm like, please text me.
00:22:21.759 --> 00:22:23.119
Do not email me another thing.
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:25.200
There's hundreds of emails in my inbox right now.
00:22:25.359 --> 00:22:33.839
So I think it's a mix of their communication preferences and reaching out more often than you feel quite comfortable with until you get what you need.
00:22:34.000 --> 00:22:40.559
And then you're responding a little bit quicker than perhaps your inclination might be, would be some of the things I've learned over the time.
00:22:41.279 --> 00:22:42.000
That makes sense.
00:22:42.160 --> 00:22:46.880
I'm actually reading a book right now recommended by another speaker called Rejection Proof.
00:22:47.039 --> 00:22:55.839
And that's about this guy who put himself out there and his goal was to get rejected a hundred days in a row or make a request that might get him rejected.
00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:57.519
And then it it kind of blew up.
00:22:57.599 --> 00:22:59.599
It was viral before things were really viral.
00:22:59.759 --> 00:23:13.359
And that's you you just helped cement some of that messaging for me in order to feel like, yeah, get that, get my own story out of my head and do what I should be doing or do what I need to be doing, and I might not get a response right away.
00:23:13.440 --> 00:23:16.720
So yeah, thanks for affirming what I've been reading right now.
00:23:17.200 --> 00:23:17.599
Of course.
00:23:17.759 --> 00:23:20.880
And I'd love to get that uh that author name from you, rejection proof.
00:23:20.960 --> 00:23:25.039
It sounds similar to another concept I've stumbled across over the years called go for no.
00:23:25.680 --> 00:23:29.039
Andrea Waltz and uh I think Robert Waltz.
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:39.119
Um, I think it's a husband and wife couple, but they have this like metaphorical story about a salesperson who shoots for as many no's as he can get, and in the result he gets more yeses.
00:23:39.279 --> 00:23:42.400
So it's about you becoming comfortable with rejection or failure.
00:23:42.559 --> 00:23:48.480
Whatever word choice you want to use around that, it's not really rejection or failure until you give up or until you hear the actual no.
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:50.480
So I think that was the the premise behind that.
00:23:50.559 --> 00:23:54.240
But rejection proof sounds like it's a similar concept to that.
00:23:55.279 --> 00:23:55.839
Definitely.
00:23:55.920 --> 00:24:02.160
Yeah, it's kind of helped me reframe how I feel about doing some of this cold or warm outreach.
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:08.720
Part of the reason for spending some time with you today is to make sure I'm doing it in an appropriate way to the appropriate audiences.
00:24:08.880 --> 00:24:11.440
And so I appreciate all of your feedback.
00:24:12.160 --> 00:24:12.799
Of course.
00:24:12.960 --> 00:24:14.960
And so, Tom, I'd love to hear from you.
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:19.519
What has been your top insight or takeaway going forward?
00:24:20.400 --> 00:24:34.240
Yeah, the thing that's popped back in my head a few times are these employee resource groups on in corporate, and we have them here in my day job too, that I just hadn't thought to tap into whatsoever.
00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:45.359
And so I am um curious and interested to explore what they are, who might be involved in those in some of the organizations, or you know, I've done some association events.
00:24:45.519 --> 00:24:49.599
Well, those associations are made up of people from all sorts of industries.
00:24:49.759 --> 00:24:58.000
And so, in addition to reaching out to those attendees, seeing if I can dive a little bit deeper into some of those resource groups to see if there might be some opportunities.
00:24:58.160 --> 00:24:59.200
There's been lots of great stuff.
00:24:59.359 --> 00:25:04.319
That's one thing that I'm kind of kicking myself for not thinking of before, and I appreciate you bringing top of mind.
00:25:04.640 --> 00:25:05.119
Of course.
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:07.039
And thank you for sharing your insights on that.
00:25:07.200 --> 00:25:18.400
One small word to the WISA as well is, and I don't know if this is something you've tried, but because you know that education markets are a strong fit for you, I almost wonder you can negotiate depending on what their budgets are.
00:25:18.559 --> 00:25:33.119
Sometimes if they don't pay your full speaking fee or something, one thing you can negotiate is membership to their association so that you can continue to add value to that organization, but also get to know people and maybe have conversations outside of whatever presentation you're doing.
00:25:33.279 --> 00:25:38.720
So that might be something as you're going forward and exploring these markets and expanding your referral opportunities.
00:25:38.880 --> 00:25:42.160
That might be something worthwhile for you if you know that that's a solid market for you.
00:25:42.319 --> 00:25:44.640
You know, keep getting that spin-off and referral business.
00:25:45.039 --> 00:25:50.799
That as an extreme extrovert and somebody who likes to learn, I love that idea and I hadn't considered that either.
00:25:50.880 --> 00:25:52.559
So I appreciate you throwing that in there.
00:25:52.880 --> 00:25:53.920
Yeah, that's that's not mine.
00:25:54.000 --> 00:25:54.960
It's from Ed Rigsby.
00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:58.240
He's a great guy and he focuses exclusively on association markets.
00:25:58.319 --> 00:26:00.960
So he brought that up in one of his uh LinkedIn posts, I think.
00:26:01.039 --> 00:26:02.079
And I'm like, that's brilliant.
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:07.119
You know, get that membership to that association and just keep participating and keep building that relationship.
00:26:07.279 --> 00:26:09.519
Well, I've had a great conversation with you, Tom.
00:26:09.599 --> 00:26:12.240
I'd love to let folks know how they can connect with you.
00:26:12.400 --> 00:26:14.480
Where's the best place to connect with you?
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:15.920
Yes, thanks.
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:19.599
Most of my updates are on LinkedIn.
00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:23.200
And so my guess is maybe my that'll be in show notes somewhere.
00:26:23.359 --> 00:26:32.799
And then my website, Tom-Hicks, H I C K S dot com, is where you can learn more about this talk, this session, and future dates.
00:26:33.119 --> 00:26:33.519
Perfect.
00:26:33.599 --> 00:26:40.319
Stay tuned for Tom's upcoming speaker reel footage as he is getting that all figured out and released out into the wild.
00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:43.839
And check out the show notes to connect with him on LinkedIn, Tom Hicks.
00:26:44.079 --> 00:26:46.799
Thank you so much for being in the studio virtually with us today, Tom.
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:49.279
We're stretching every day and learning how to do new things.
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:51.200
I've appreciated our conversation today.
00:26:51.519 --> 00:26:52.079
Same here.
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:52.880
Thanks, Jen.
00:26:53.519 --> 00:27:00.480
Next time we'll hear more about how to build your speaking business and different speaking markets you can approach.
00:27:00.799 --> 00:27:03.680
Thank you for tuning in to Mic Drop Mindset.
00:27:03.759 --> 00:27:10.640
If you enjoyed today's episode, please take a moment to leave a review on Spotify, Apple, or share a comment over on YouTube.
00:27:10.960 --> 00:27:17.039
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00:27:17.200 --> 00:27:20.160
Leaders don't just talk, they also listen.
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:21.599
I'm listening.
00:27:21.839 --> 00:27:24.079
I'll see you on your next stage.
00:27:24.319 --> 00:27:29.920
In the meanwhile, don't forget to visit my website, Jen with 2Ns, spingo.com