00:00:09
Speaker 1: What is up? Mets fans, Welcome to the live watch along of the EC three podcast. Yes, you are seeing Eric Schavez his face on our screen. He has dropped a podcast, didn't even though he had one. Good for him. I guess he's jobless right now, so he's got to do the podcast circuit. He is talking about the Mets and he's airing the dirty laundry. May have seen some clips on Twitter. You may have seen some stuff on foul Territory. Eric Schava has been running his mouth recently because the Mets are in free fall, and I'm sure he feels pretty good about it, considering he was fired at the end of last season. We're going to live watch this. We're gonna pause, make comments, critiques. I think, James, you've seen a little bit more than me. A lot of this is gonna be first time rip for me. I saw the first ten minutes yesterday when I was like, wait a second, I just want to save this and do this pure So this would just be a fun idea for our third episode this week. So I'm sure not that many people still at the end of the day are running to watch the full flow length ECS podcast, right No, I don't think so. But you'll now watch Mark and James of the metsup podcast, watch the EC three podcast. I'm not linking in the description. That's one thing I'm not doing. You can go find it yourself if you want to. But uh, subscribe to our channel mets up. Yeah, bat further ado, I mean, here we go, Here we go, Eric Chavez, gotta start off with the vertical. Oh yeah, this TikTok is so you need to start with a TikTok, which is good. Yeah, all right, here we go.
00:01:22
Speaker 2: So the met let me rephrase that, so surns besides to fire Mendoza, why not the whole stets promo. Well, he's he's already used that bullet in the chamber, right, he's running out of bullets.
00:01:38
Speaker 1: What are these? What are these?
00:01:40
Speaker 2: Me? This was inevitable, This was the next step. But Carlos wasn't a problem.
00:01:49
Speaker 1: Who's editing this? Who edited this? Who? There's so much there's so many breaks in this that its driving me insane. It could be so much more concise. Also, at the same time, again, I don't know why the conversation and has become by a lot of people that Carlos Mendoza wasn't the problem. He for sure was part of the problem. Also, why are those so many people? Was Carlos Mendoza versus David Stearn's I don't think it was ever really like that. And I just have to commend Derek Travis. I don't think I've ever heard the podcast use the word bullets twice in the first nine seconds. Yes, he's he's really uh's talking about bullets. He's using all his bullets early on check out the Phoenix Country Club. I think he spent a lot of time there last year. Right, he did break found him on Instagram.
00:02:27
Speaker 2: And I've said it before, Right, none of the moves that he's made where's this usage or have made have worked out? They just haven't.
00:02:34
Speaker 1: It's so loud. We need to break this down on the American.
00:02:40
Speaker 2: Podcast three podcasts. Yes, don't miss it.
00:02:44
Speaker 1: Good grasp, it's gonna be hard hit.
00:02:47
Speaker 2: Carlo's wasn't the problem. Right, We're back here with the first time we've done. This is an emergency episode of the podcast with six Times Gold Glover, Eric Chavez and Shaby Love.
00:03:05
Speaker 1: The introduc show six Times Gold Glover, Eric Schavaz to the podcast that he is his. I need to find out who's Chris Hamblin?
00:03:11
Speaker 3: Yeah?
00:03:11
Speaker 1: Can we get a little Chris Hamblin background check real quick, just so we know where this guy's coming from. I know where he's gonna be, you know, glazing chavas the entire time. The first one that popped up my LinkedIn is the head women's soccer coach at Harvard. Don't think that can imagine that's this guysover. The next one absolutely not. Next one. The next one sets up drag shows. Not himy, they're gonna go out on them. It's not him. I hope it too. So I guess I don't know who' Chris Hamblin is Probably a friend?
00:03:40
Speaker 2: Yeah?
00:03:40
Speaker 1: Probably? All right, here we go.
00:03:42
Speaker 2: We do emergency podcast on this show very rarely, but after what has taken place with the New York Mets and your experience in.
00:03:52
Speaker 1: New York, it's an interesting move.
00:03:54
Speaker 2: And then your initial reaction that you posted on social media yesterday, I wanted.
00:04:01
Speaker 1: To are these guys in the same room and split screening because it looks like this is the same room they are. The back window looks the same but slightly disjointed, and it feels like we're just on a wide table and we brought together for a close table. Oh, they are in the same room and they've decided to do a split screen, which is also a choice, a split screen without actually splitting the screen. They just they just made it look more confusing. Okay, yeah, that's that's enough of the low blow shots. Let's now take actual shots at their shot.
00:04:31
Speaker 2: Come in and just let you kind of give us your thoughts on what's been going on, right first and foremost your reaction. Then, I always when these things happen, I always just hate to have just the dump, right, and you said something great this morning, like, then I want to have a plan, like here's my plan would be moving forward. So the Carlos Mendoza at the two X speed and you have a very unique perspective as to the regime that's in power now and the regime that you worked for. You've worked for both of them.
00:05:05
Speaker 1: So in twenty Chabez looks bored. Schabez looks bored. I'm bored already. I'm gonna say this. Yes, he does have a unique position on this regime. He was not hired by this regime. He was fired by this regime. So I got to assume that Eric Shabaz is not gonna like what was going on. It's just an idea, and two of his very good friends in the industry are also both fired.
00:05:23
Speaker 2: By the year he's twenty two. You were the hitting coach for the Mets. In twenty twenty three, you were promoted to bench coach under Buck Show Walter Shoe Walter gets Run Eppler as well. At the end of that season and the offseason gets run and the decision that you make, you're able. When Carlos Mendoza comes in to have a really had a relationship with him. You stayed on board, right, And that's when the Stearns regime comes in, and that that first year you guys go to the NLCS.
00:05:58
Speaker 1: If you lose meat this option, I don't.
00:06:02
Speaker 2: I'll let you get into it. And then twenty twenty five, so funny about no playoffs staff turnover, and that gets us to twenty twenty six, where before the All Star break, more staff turnover and as you put it on your post, someone's running out of bullets. Yeah, and loves that. Yeah, I don't even know. Let's just start at the beginning. Carlos, we have a history giving Yankees organization. I love Carlos. When he came over, we interviewed, we talked.
00:06:31
Speaker 1: It feels like we don't need to start at the beating. By the way, I don't want to hear about anything about Carlsmonoz with the Yankees, in your relationship with him when he worked with the Yankees. Literally get to the fucking point. I think you should do expeed this to X speed through and then when we get to a hot shot, then we can put it back down. I think, right, we're so what's from preamble? Right now, we're three minutes nothing said. Three minutes in, we're through half a baseball game. I thank god he was an extremely talented baseball player.
00:06:56
Speaker 2: This is this is I already knew.
00:06:59
Speaker 1: I would that's too fast, that's too fast, that's too fast, too too fast? Uh one to five, I'll try one five.
00:07:05
Speaker 2: I would like the man I knew working under boone for all those years as the as the band coach, learning from him. Who I really respect. The way Aaron bon goes about his business. I respect, you know, even Kashman. The whole Yankee organization I think is extremely well run, and I think every organization should you know, look to them as is how to do it right right Cashrom's been there for thirty.
00:07:21
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to interject real quick because one of the clips I saw was from Foul Territory as well as from this podcast of Eric Schabas saying he's over analytics, that you shouldn't be using analytics to run your team, James, real quick, it's a big thing that the Yankees used to run their their organization. They have one of the most robust analytics departments in all of baseball and now honestly earlier to most other teams as well. Yeah, you know, just just making sure we definitely haven't seen like clips of Clint Fraser and other guys talking about how analytics have been ruining the Yankees. But now because Eric Schabaz was not fired from the Yankees, he does love the way that their organization is being run. Was he not fired from the Yankees? No? I think we just oh we took him, Yeah we took him.
00:07:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, we poshed him plus years whatever, multiple series, they go to playoffs, every year, they develop players, they drop well, they just do it right, you know, And I think every organization should look at this. I instantly I knew. I wanted to say with Carlos, we hit it off right away, you know, we make that run. You know, Carlos was the right guy, you know, in a tough obviously in a tough city. Being bench coach, going a manager, that's completely different seat. But he he's a good baseball man. He's just a great individual. There's no reason why, you know, he wasn't capable of being the leader. He took us to the alcs and a hundred percent.
00:08:26
Speaker 1: And I think that's what a lot of the criticism for the firing of Mendoza has been is that he's a great, great dude. And I don't baseball man, baseball guy. I don't think that there's anything against that. Nothing has show us that Carls Mendoza isn't a good person, that he isn't a baseball life for all this kind of stuff opposite, opposite, if anything, the managerial stuff in game decision making, actual things that matters, wins and losses. I don't think that you can see what he's done and say he's done a great job. No, actually quite the opposite. And again, both of these things can be true. You could be bad tactically, but you could also be really good guy. Yes, and I think both things are true, and it seems like people are having a hard time separating those two things, which we're going back to one point speed now because now they're actually talking Carlos. Let's go.
00:09:07
Speaker 2: So, yeah, he has the he has the pedigree, he knows the game, he knows how to deal with people. And this was the wrong fire why why yeah we can I'm just let's just get right to it immediately. Serns was the wrong hire. And I think why we can kind of dive into you know, you know, his huge contract five years, fifty million dollars with really and we've talked about this before about you know, climbing the total pole and achieving certain things and kind of earning your way to the top. You know, he came from Milwaukee, built a great farm system, didn't really accomplish anything, you know, And I want to know who who told Steve Cohen that this guy was the next guy?
00:09:59
Speaker 1: Okay, Gota we gotta address a little bit like listen, again, this is not gonna be like a glazing David Stearns fest. Again we've talked about on the podcast, and yet there are still comments that don't seem to understand what we are saying. David Stearns the last year and a half has been an absolute mess. Almost every decision that he's made has not gone right. Since the trade deadline, It's been a complete disaster on acquisitions and players in and team performance. There's no doubt about it. But I do think that we're probably gonna see some goalposts moving here by Eric Schavas in terms of what makes a successful GM and President of Baseball Ops. Well, that's what I'm saying, that not accomplish anything, not accomplish anything. So does that mean, I guess impossibly, in Eric Shav's mind the only accomplishments are pendance and World Series, and that could possibly be true. I could definitely see a lot of play people from the former player ranks feeling that way. But then you can't. Sometimes you just can't hire guys who have World Series ranks because they're not leaving their current situations. And David Stearns had multiple divisions and playoff runs and went to the NLCS Game seven multiple times lost to the Dodgers. Even before David Stearns was the Brewers, he was with the Astros. He was an understudy in this organization that was actually turning go over world serious championship. So if wherever you moved the goalposts again, whether you could say he was possibly anointed too far, that could be fair, but at the same time say he didn't accomplish anything. It's really a reductive view of someone who's a successful executive before taking that same job. Here, I also feel like, you know Andrew Friedman Dodgers, he was with the Rays. They didn't win anything. They didn't they didn't win a World Series. Under Andrew Friedman, they were successful similarly to that of Stern. So it is interesting. I feel like in baseball there's very few hires that I can remember that run organizations now that had prior success, because, like you said, you don't leave when you have that success, and usually when those guys leave it's because they're done with the job. They retire like theo. Epstein's kind of the last big one that I and I guess Dombrowski too now, but like Epstein was a big one going from the Red Sox to the Cubs with the lineage of winning, like Cashman's not leaving all the all the guys that have been winning don't typically leave.
00:11:53
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00:12:00
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00:12:55
Speaker 1: And that's also the other part that gets missed in these conversations about Davis Serines, the Metskysic, theowebscene. Dave don Browski is like a big part of that job is to build the organizational processes, and we're not inside enough to know how successful those have been. With David Stearns, we're assuming they're better because they were so bad. Well here the last few regime regimes yet, but well these are stuff wall come out. So it's like you can't it's hard to hop this job time over time over time and expect good results process wise from your organization. Yes, so I don't know. I'm sure, Eric Shav Eric Schabas, by the way, has he won anything? Just quick check for me. I don't think so. Was he bench player two thousand and yekes? He surely won a World series if he is talking about success and using that as a benchmark as to how you get your jobs. Eric Shavis six time goal Glove, one time Silver Slugger, zero time All Star, Okay, got it? Cool?
00:13:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, just make it right without even accomplishing anything. And I think that's where we kind of fault. We come up a little short in baseball. As we award players, you know, the greatest whatever. We're quick to jump the gun on people without having them be proven. And you're seeing a lot of this in the game, whether you're who.
00:14:00
Speaker 1: Who do we jump the gun on without being proven? By the way Carls Mendoza, if we do want to talk about proven he had he was a first time manager. There was not anything that he has done successful in his life in terms of managerial success. So it's again it's a crazy goalpost being moved. There's also and this is something that's become a broader conversation. It's come from Eric Shava has been a big conversation baseball the last two days. Like we said the podcast, he hatually a huge conversation basketball for the last whole week about analytics versus like former players front office roles. I feel like there's this idea of these guys who like climb the mountain top athletically physically, of like gatekeeping the games. Yes, where you could be good at playing and bad at managing, good at managing, bad at playing and I think that there's this kind of like insecurity sometimes of these guys that there's other people come in and able to run these teams and organize organizations in a way that they don't think makes sense to them, and they need to take their shots at Well, we'll get into more of this as we keep moving. I can conceptually understand. Again, this is gonna be the nice thing I say about Shavaz the entire time, he was a very good baseball player. He was. He was awesome with the A's and like the no All Star shot, no world seriously, like those loos weren't really in his control. He was a phenomenal third baseman, great hitter in Oakland. He had a successful baseball career. Similarly, it's like when you're really good at your job and you have someone who couldn't do your job telling you how your job should be done. Yeah, it's a total mind fuck for these guys. They have no idea, especially the old garb have no clue how to handle it. And Eric Chavs was someone who actually kind of I think benefited from analytics in terms just a little bit, but like in terms of like evaluating a player because Eric Schavaz He was like a two sixty two eighty hitter with like a good on base percentage, like some power get a good couple of thirty homer seasons close to it in his prime, but fantastic defense at third. Basic he's a guy who put up for the war. And you're like, oh, this actually was a really good player. Yeah he also I thought he was a fantastic player. Ah, yes, of course, but this is just it is funny again the goalpost movement that is going to I think continue to happen here.
00:15:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is there managers that have zero experience or you know, never can a big league dugout. We've kind of jumped the gun on awarding people before they even accomplished anything. So was that mentality like okay, so you're you're on the staff, this guy comes in. Is that what you're thinking immediately when they give him this title that's never been created with the Mets before they put him in a position that I mean, there was some overlap between Eppler and Stearns, right, so you have the overlap situation. So take me to when this is all going down, what everybody's thinking, like, this is going to go horribly wrong or maybe this guy knows what he's doing. Was it bad from the get you know? Yeah, I mean Cohen had the right guy, he had Eppler, you know, if he would still be there. There was an inside hit job that got Billy fired. Yeah, complete bs situation. I'm not going to dive into that, but yes, so when you say a hit job, right, like, there were people actively playing politics behind the scenes to run him out and was it Sterns that likely was the puppet master of that now and he could get all the control all okay, not at all. He came into a situation that was a fire was lit prior to him getting there. You know, I think, Steve, how funny is that?
00:17:16
Speaker 1: So carl Eric Schabas mentions that there was an inside hit job to get Billy Eppler out, well, because that was the whole thing with the guys and the injurl lists who weren't on the injured list, and he was under investigation. He wounded up being let go when he was allegedly going to remain at general manager and I think he actually will have I think Billy Eppler, truthfully, looking back, probably is a good foil for a guy like David Stearns, because he has a hands on he comes more from the scathing world, and like he's a member of the Brewers organization now and he has been for two years working as a special advisor to Matt Arnold. So I'm sure that I'm honestly sure that maybe Stern's even helping in a word for him there, Like yeah, I mean I am confused about just the direction of where we're going still, because it's anti David Stearns. Billy Upper was the guy Stearns didn't force him out, though it was somebody else from the inside. But the problem is all David Stearns. That's not connecting. That comment really helps me with Eric schab Is, you know, like reputability in this whole podcast, it's like you get another chance to dump on Sterns. No one really, I mean some people who worked in the metal work in twenty twenty three could corroborated that against him. But like that's so the fact that someone else out there with a hit job by Billy Elp is incredible. That is insane. Poor Billy Eppler, he's doing good.
00:18:20
Speaker 2: You know that he wanted to go with Sterns. That was a well documented grew up in New York's met fans. I don't know why that would even matter. They don't have the grace of love and winning. Yeah, sure it's equation. But yeah, I was because I didn't know David. I had some people talk to me about him. There was some good, some bad. But I was optimistic. I think anytime you start something new, and everything was kind of fresh. Carlos was hired, David was coming in. You're you're optimistic, you know, and when you have an owner like Steve Cohen, And by the way, can we stop with the Steve Cohen needs to go? Not that is every team should want to know. He's willing to spend the money to win. He just he's emotionally involved. He he really wants this team to win. And that might be a problem.
00:19:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe we don't want emotionally emotionally involved. I want him financially involved. Now, I want him emotionally wanting winning, intrigued on winning. I think he is. He's very said fast how badly he wants to win. But maybe we don't really know what's going on the edges between decision making. But this, this is this is a strange diet tribe, even for Eric Chovas. So I do want to like, can we get to the fucking point.
00:19:34
Speaker 2: He's going to get there at some point, you know. Like I said, I just don't know where he got the advice that that Stearns was going to be the guy. It's plain and simple. He's not. He's made a lot of mistakes, right from from day one, you know. Last year. I'll go back to this a little bit, and I've hint on it before.
00:19:51
Speaker 1: Here we go.
00:19:52
Speaker 2: We didn't make the right moves to get us into the playoffs, right. We had struggled mightily in the beginning. Offensively, pitchers were great, Yeah, they were probably over forming at the time, and the offense picked up towards the end of the year. The offense was rolling. The pitching really really was hurting. The moves, the right moves the starting pitching, the two or three right moves weren't made, and that's why we kind of didn't make the playoffs and we kind of burnt out at the end. I really firmly believe in my heart that if that team had gotten into the playoffs, it was going to be I'm not saying we were gone all the way, but God, we would have been dangerous with the right moves made. What were the moves that needed to be made. We need and we needed some bullpen arms.
00:20:33
Speaker 1: Okay, two starting pitchers. The best starting pitcher that was moved on the deadline last year was Merril Kelly. Merrill Kelly sunk the Ranger season. He was horrible. Any chance that they had of getting hot in the second half, Meryl Kelly absolutely demolished that. So the Mets could have either trade for Merril Kelly or was Flairty moved again last deadline or no he wasn't. No, he stuck with tadlines ago. So yeah, I think this is something that we've said too. I wish we could have magically found whoever the starting pitchers that were going to be traded were and had him on the Mets. There was nobody moved. There wasn't a starting picture to get no, and that's why it was a unique and historic deadline for relief pitchers, which we tried to do that we got all of them. One of the most consistent relief pitchers, consistent and dominant relief pitchers and all of baseball over the last five years, and he just completely failed. Shane Bieber was the other starting pitcher was moved last year and he was still in the injury list for three weeks after that happened. And it's like it's it was just not a deadline for starting pitchers and moves. But that's like today, Yeah, Dustin May which was a complete disaster. And to bring up like a couple of bullpen arms, they grabbed a bunch of bullpen arms. They got Hellsley, they got Tyler Rogers, David when got Gregorrisoto a little bit earlier, right before the deadline. So like, yep, everything was relatively addressed except the starting pitch. Now we can tell yes, yeah, cool, we could add zactly tell Like if that's what Eric Schabas is saying the Mets needed to make the playoffs, lash, you're Merrill Kelly's actly tell? Okay, Like shade us for not thinking that these bad pictures would have been guys that we needed to go get. Meryl Kelly's not bad, but he was terrible in that sense. Also say this, like to think about how them as acted after the trade deadline. About two and a half weeks later, Nolan McClain was on the team. Yah if he was swung two or three of these deals for the veterans, and then maybe Nolal mclin doesn't come up and he was better than any of those guys could have been at all. So maybe that was I'm sure something the front office considered as well. I mean, of course, with sprote, Tong and mclan all getting their chances after the trade deadline, they were like, are we giving up assets to get something that's even better than what we actually have here right now? And it doesn't seem like it. And I do think again, a lot of these things can be true. David Searns made moves. The moves did not work, and at the time, I think any met fan who thought that that was going to be the case, again, you were lying or you just had a predisposed bias that you didn't want to like these moves no matter what they were, because on paper, they were all good trades without a doubt. And just like a third of the way through the EC three podcast right now, I think Early Takes is sour grapes. Sour grapes shocker. The guy who got fired by the President of Baseball Operations doesn't love the way that the President of Baseball Operations, does his job and then a hitchob done on one of his best friends in the industry. Yes, as well, both of his best friends. It seems like he loves Billyupler, he loves Carlos Mendoza.
00:23:14
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:23:14
Speaker 1: Don't listen to what Eric Schabas said though about prior experience and pedigree, because that doesn't apply to Carls Mendoz being the manager or Billy Elpler being the GM.
00:23:23
Speaker 2: The ones, the players that were brought in, whether it was you know, they weren't the right fit for New York, which you got to do your homework on these guys if you're gonna bring him to a big town like this, the right pieces just didn't perform. They hadn't worked out.
00:23:36
Speaker 1: How could you do homework to know if someone is right for New York? It's could you ask Brian Helsley, can you handle the bright lights? And I was gonna say no, Yeah, he says no, Definitely don't get him then like he's gonna pull the Zach Grankey where Granky's like, I can't pitch for the Yankees. Yeah, Like David Bednar is from Pittsburgh, he handles New York. Well, yeah, I feel like that we know they didn't handle it well, but I don't know how we could have known that better. There possibly could have been so ways to suss this out, like maybe speaking to friends in the industry about how these guys short themselves. But begat Helsley's the main one there where Secha Amalin sucked, who's gonna suck them a otther what Tyler Rogers was solid? Who's gonna be solid on oyther Wise? Gregory's house sucked? Yeah, well now he was okay again. Ryan Helsley was the breaking point last year. It's just broke very much.
00:24:17
Speaker 2: You know, he tried. You know.
00:24:19
Speaker 1: By the way, what were some of Billy Eppler's trade deadline acquisitions that worked out really really well? Just for people at home. I finally remember Mets fans looking back to twenty twenty two trade deadline really being a fan. Tyler and Aquin, Yes it's my brother ain damn picture back picture Darren Ruff.
00:24:34
Speaker 2: And I think another huge fault of it was we had young players that you can't hold on to all of them. Right. We had a great farm system Billy put together and started rebuilding the farm system, and we had jumped out to I think number one in the farm system, at least the top five. And you hold on to some of these guys too long and they're value. They're not all going to pan out right, and you made trade a guy or two who goes to another organization. But if you move a couple of those pieces and you get a starting pitcher back for two or three years or whatever it is, and you help us bolster the bullpen and a bullpen and the starting rotation, you're looking at a whole different team last year.
00:25:16
Speaker 1: So it seems like he's saying the messiting on Fiano's baby, I think that crew, Yeah that crew, while also at the same time saying that you should have gotten somebody that didn't exist on the market. Yeah, you want he wanted the starting pitchers, wanted Sandy or Joe Ryan, and those guys weren't moved. Yeah, he wanted good pictures with two or three years of control. And also, like again Revision's history, you couldn't have traded Brett Bay the deadline last year. He was one of the best players on your team. He feels crazy evening now. And maybe they wanted to trade Vieno's but Vientos is playing so poorly. I don't know what they could have gotten for him. The only big Fianta's rumor was the hymn for Louise Robert, and it was like that would That's not exactly what talking about either. He's not talking about center feel. He was talk about starting pitching. Yeah, and you know, like just like he wanted these starting pitchers that didn't exist on the trade market, being these multiple year frontline starters. I want to be six foot five and play shortstop for the New York Mets. It will be nice. I also be talking about not holding out too many of these prospects for sure. Yes, they also did trade a lot of them in the last year. Yeah, it's they are, and a lot of the ones that they traded, it's like it was kind of good move, Like Blade did well and Drew Gilbert don't seem to be particularly impactful players at all right now. No, he's his bias has gotten kind of stuck with the Cardinals. Jose Bunto had the major injury and wasn't particularly good. Yeah, it just feels like a lot of the trades, again, process wise, weren't too bad. Luisan helocunya can't stinks. Yeah. So process wise, again, a lot of those trades actually did work out philosophically, like shops.
00:26:35
Speaker 2: Wanted, I would have went to the playoffs and made some noise. So from that standpoint, there was tons of mistakes made that didn't pan out. Sure, it's like, okay, are you are you building a winner? And every year if you got a chance, you got to go, especially in New York. Maybe you talked about the White Sox and they're having there a year or two early on the winning you don't fall in last, but work in the big cities, you go for it, especially with an owner who is willing to spend money. You is this a teardown? Is this a rebuild? Like are we looking to the future? Yeah? The moves that were made this off you get rid of your core. Okay, this is another big red flag. So me, who's the core? Yeah? And I talked about this is offseason when he made these moves, I go, this is not the way I would know about it. Right, Because of all the winning teams and players and organizations that have been you always have a core, right, you have two or three really good starting pitchers, like a one in a two and then you have you know, a couple of threes and fours whatever it does, and then you have a core three or four players. And they had that, they had all of this right, maybe lack.
00:27:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, he said, all these good baseball teams, you know, they have a core of one or two really good study pitchers. And then at three and a four he just did, good baseball teams have rotations. Yeah, like he just whatever the way he's describing the makeup of a good team. Also, why is he not take any player's names right now? It's driving me insane that like shout out Chris Hamblin. He's trying to get answers out of shops. He is talking in fucking circles. It's driving me insane. Which, if this is any of the way like he coached, I can imagine why the Mets hitters looked so fucking confused at times last year. We're getting to a crazy point about coaching soon. This is we're not far from where I cut myself off yesterday. And he says something that didn't make out of social media. It is jarring. Okay, so should shud press player? Should we talk a little bit more about the cores A. You're gonna keep going now, press.
00:28:27
Speaker 2: Playing and starting rotation where we needed some some big dogs to come in. But that's where you trade some of the young prospects to bring those guys in, right and so did Yeah, yeah, they trade you know, they get rid of Alonso, which hurt Nemo and trade them. McNeil. You let Diaz kind of walk and go to the Dodgers. You get out bid by the Dodgers. You know, this whole off season was a disaster, so you could see this this was coming. Yeah, because you can't one You can't just spend money and buy a winning team.
00:29:00
Speaker 1: Did you guys just hear what he said? And have you heard what he said before? Okay, offseason in retrospect disaster, we know it. Peter A, Lonzo being on this team and brand Nemo would be positive. So there's no doubt about it. We would love to have them instead of some of the guys that we have right now. We don't. Mets are still not a playoff team with those guys because they weren't a playoff team with those guys last year. Jeff McNeal is about to be defaed by the Athletics. He is having one of the worst seasons in baseball, Edwin Diaz hasn't pitched in months.
00:29:26
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00:30:27
Speaker 1: And then he just said, yeah, you can't just spend a lot of money and make a good baseball team. But which four guys? Yeah, he did say that you have an owner who will spend as much money as you need to build a winning team. And the advocate for getting these guys back in the mess was to spend a lot of money to do so. Yes, So it's interesting. It's interesting how it works talking out both sides of your mouth. There shefis, guy, can't.
00:30:49
Speaker 2: You have to? We've talked about everything, but there's the pieces that fit together that make the team what it should be. And it's funny because the fans will be like, well, they didn't win anything and not there's only one team that does it every year, right, and so you have twenty nine other teams that didn't get it done or whatever you want to say. But really, what you're looking for is an organization is an opportunity to go to the playoffs every single year, right, Because but.
00:31:13
Speaker 1: David Start didn't acomplish anything in Milwaukee. No, he did not accomplish anything Milwaukee. But all you want to do is make the playoffs every year, and that's how you know you're a good organization. Cold Post movie is creat Did he know what he was gonna say before he got into this or he was like he called up Chris Hamblin said, come to the garage. I got a couple of mics I got, I got golf clubs in the back. Yeah, we're gonna talk. We're gonna talk. You're gonna ask me questions. I won't answer them, and I will completely contradict myself within minutes. Somehow, we're only a third of the way through this podcast. By the way, Oh, I thought we were way longer. Eleven minutes. I thought this twenty nine is for SIS thirty nine, thirty nine a crap shoot.
00:31:48
Speaker 2: And it happened like you know, like I really felt last year, if we got in anything could have happened, we would have made a pretty good run. But you kind of tear that down right, and you talk about clubhouse culture and you talk about the people like That's what's upsetting to me, is like even when you fire the whole coaching staff, right and you let go quality players that have been there, done that before, that know what it's like to walk the fire that help you know these players navigate you know, the Since twenty two to twenty five, it's not an easy walk in New York. The right personalities to help these players kind of navigate the season, and you just kind of move on from the Core. And one it's like, you know, the fans are upset, they're losing their their favorite players, their jerseys. You maybe make one or two move, but you don't got the whole thing.
00:32:39
Speaker 1: Most fair point he's had, that's probably the biggest oversight from David Stearns was that too much change, too much change all at once. I think we all are in agreement with that. It is also funny though, again mentioning make trying to make the playoffs every single year that core historically did not make the playoffs and back to back years. Yeah, Mets historically an organization, have almost ever made the playoffs and back to back years. Yeah, It's like, it's crazy, how fews this actually happened for a team that's been around as long as them, loved the Core when it existed, it did not accomplish anything, especially in Eric Schabz his eyes.
00:33:07
Speaker 2: And then expect to go sign some free agents and whatever your processes of you know how you're evaluating and acquiring pieces to build a team, run prevention to me, has been the biggest piece of garbage that have that has come out of his mouth. And first of all, we've talked about it's called pitching and defense, right.
00:33:28
Speaker 1: Right, So then he's just mad about the semantics. Yes, yes, he gets it.
00:33:33
Speaker 2: He gets into that, let's not insult everybody with your big words, and you know, we're just gonna and we know what you mean, pitching and defense. So run prevention became this big thing, and you know, and and that's great, Like I I firmly believe to combat how good pitching has become is yeah, you need pitching and defense, and you need guys that make high contact, but you still need guys that that can drive the ball to the park and be productive and those Lindor was there. You had signed Sodo and this is where I want to go to run prevention. And I love Sodo. I think he's a top three hitter, Hall of Fame guy, already one World Series, great offensive sign. I don't know how that fits into run prevention because and this is not me knocking him, this is industry numbers telling you that he's a well below average outfield. Clearly you can watch, you know, So how do we factor that into run prevention. And if that is the case, right, if defense is a big deal for you, you know, and he's a below average outfielder, how do you not have the backbone to substitute him late in the games for defense, right, because it happens with every other player.
00:34:43
Speaker 1: You can't take one Solo out of the game for defense, dude. I mean, if you're up, even if the chance of it's again the ball goes over the fence and the game becomes tied, you can't take him off the field. And I else just want to say, it's kind of amazing, but Solo is a zero AA this year. I was told he's a horrendous outfielder. I think again, when you watch him like the whole time, he's by no means good out there, No, no, no, he's he's been adequate this year, which again we'll take especially when you're paying guy that much money, you probably just want that value. And similarly, you just called him Ted Williams and then said, how do you not have the bad take field because you shouldn't ever take to wat So off the field. Doesn't matter Ted Williams. You're gonna take Ted Williams off the field. Eric Schoff has just compared him to Ted Williams and then said, well that David Stearns doesn't have the backbone to take him off the field. So he's claiming that David Stearns is making the decisions in game two. Now we're a getting some of that next. But remember tedl Onan's accomplish anything didn't win the World Series. Oh shit, that's a really good point le World series. Telons Din accomplish anything has won a World Series, accomplished a lot.
00:35:45
Speaker 2: But are you afraid of, you know, hurting his feelings? You know, because if you go all in on something, go all in right, put your best defensive team. If that's your philosophy, can have think I think that's overplayed where they make a defensive substitution late. But if that's the way you're going, let's let's do it and make your defense better. How much of this is hubrious an ego with Sterns thinking that, you know what, when I came in, we made it to the NLCS, but that wasn't my my squad, that wasn't my deal. Those were guys that were here before me. I have my fingerprints on that. For me to be successful. I need to break this thing all the way down. Why would he ever think get rid of everybody and just reinsert my people and it's going to be a two or three year process.
00:36:30
Speaker 1: Sorry to interrupt, like as much as we are, but it is crazy, like to just like Chris Hamblin again, I'm not taking shots at this guy, do a great job. But he's like, is it Sterns's ego where he's now putting in words of like basically telling people this is what David Sterns is thinking. He's like, I don't want to win with someone else's guys. We have no history of that. There's also some oddrovision's history about that twenty twenty four Mets team where like I mean, Harrison Bata came in a one win player. He was a one year deal for Stern. J D Martinez, massive point of leadership, great moments with the bat. Not super consistent season, but he had a good season. Tyrone Taylor, Jose Glacis combined for five war That's crazy. Think to look back and think about that for a second. The two of the guys who came in on one year deals, Jesse Winker as a trade deadline piece, was a huge piece in that run. Luis I'm just gonna say Luis Torenz first changed the season when Mets made a weird trade for him in early June, late May. Sevrino and me and I were carrying that team like it was a lot of start Remember Regarrett, Yeah, Garrett was awesome. It was a lot of his turns, his fingerprints on that team, of course, he I mean a lot of it was from the team before. The Corps was very good that year, between Alonzo Lindor, Nemo Viento's everything. Guys were in the organization for a while. But to say that Davidstats had no impact on that run is ludicrous. That's ludicrous. And I think it's also crazy to be like David Surtin's like, oh, I don't want to win with those guys, Like would he why would he care how they win? Well, this is why Hambling's a good host, because right now he's thrown, He's throwing up the soft tossed south. So this is what he is telling Shabaz go be crazy.
00:38:05
Speaker 2: I think some of that is just like I'm smarter than everybody else. This will work and it's gonna suck, but I need people that are bought in to do it. That's and that's the biggest fault of educated people is they do think they're smarter than you.
00:38:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember that line. The biggest fault of educated people is they think they're smarter than you. I didn't know education was a fault by the way, I didn't know being educated was now a negative. That's insane. Take away the David sertains, that's an insane conversation to have. The anti intellectualism is running rampant right now, is horrific. And this is like, I'm excited, and.
00:38:36
Speaker 2: There has to be especially in this game. You know, it's built around failure. You have to have a little bit of humility there. There's there's nothing wrong with being confident in what you do. But when you do walk into that room and you kind of are talking to people down, you know, about educating them, and just the way somebody talks to you, you can kind of feel it. Everybody said those experiences, the one yesterday was insane. Yeah, it was insane. He uses a word to one of these reporters. You people are just like what in the hell right, Like, okay, thanks pal, appreciate that.
00:39:12
Speaker 1: We're critiquing now the language that he uses. I don't know. I didn't think that press conference on Friday from starts of that bad. He could have shown more humility, but like I didn't think he was like trying to pretend like he seemed like kind of solemn whether he was telling the truth or I seemed upset and he seemed like honest. I also think that like everyone wants David Sturtns to be like, I've done a terrible job. He said at the top, Yeah said at the top, so that this is not a successful season. I think people want the exact words. Again, we're having a lot of semantics stocks. It feels like on this EC three podcast that they don't like the they literally just mentioned semantics. Were like, what does that word even mean? I My brain is not pick enough to understand this language. You're an asshole. Like we're getting to another story again. Didn't make out the social media very soon? Is right when I cut it off that I'm excited, And.
00:39:57
Speaker 2: For me, it's like, don't don't bullshit fan with your philosophies and you know how you phrase things. Just just give a city wins. The city doesn't care about your philosophies and your analytics and your try just deliver a winning product on the field, right, don't sell them Carl salesman pitch and you know, filled with big words and all this stuff like just build a winner. Be quiet about what you're doing behind doors between you and your team, and you need to reevaluate what you guys are doing behind closed doors. Whoever is advising him, and maybe nobody is. Maybe this is a solo cowboy just riding on his horse president. You know, yeah, there's a part of his ego, his his brain telling himself that he's smarter than everybody else. This is how the direction I'm going to go. And you're reinventing the wheel and that that to me, that's a baseball issue is we're reinventing the wheel of how to play this game.
00:40:52
Speaker 1: It's just so reinventing the wheel of how to play. Because David certain said run prevention was something that he was interested in, Eric Schabas said, actually, the truth of run prevention is pitching and defense, and that's how baseball's always been played. So just because he used a different word to say pitching in defense with Eric schaba is decoded as run prevention. That's that's changing the way the game has been played. This is the jock first nerd in security. Yes, this is the is Mega.
00:41:18
Speaker 2: It's the same game. It's the same game like it. Don't get too smart, don't ever get too smart. What it is is an echo chambers smart. He talked about people that aren't good with conflicts, right, your situation when with your phone call for people that haven't heard this before, You've talked about it on the podcast. But when you got let go, and this is I want to get this story and then I want to get into what was actually going on in the clubhouse and with the staff. But tell the story about when you got let go by Stearns and how weird in just like awkward it was. Yeah, so I'm gonna I'm actually I'm going to build up to that first. Okay, cool, let me let me take this back to the very beginning. Yeah, so when he was high beginning, Carlos decides he wants me on staff. He wants me to be a hitting coach. Great, well, whatever, this is me after becoming bench coach, right which I had aspirations of managing bench coach, where was where I really wanted to be your staff. Whatever you need to do, let's go.
00:42:12
Speaker 1: What happened to you?
00:42:13
Speaker 2: So Stearns calls me and we're talking about my salary and as a bench coach, I had a certain salary and he goes, well, he goes, I'm gonna have to have you take a pay cut this year because you're and I'm going to my to me, that's the first one. And we're not talking about like we're talking about thirty forty thousand. Right for me, it's not the money for me, it's it's the message you're sending, right you You you just came off of a fifty million dollars deal, right, the Mets aren't struggling for money, and you're gonna ask me to take a pay cut. How about just say, hey, we're going to keep your salary the same, we're happier on staff. Let's go right a handle piece, I.
00:42:50
Speaker 1: Mean dog move. That's a dog move by sterians. Okay, Like again he was that he was kind of it seems like he might have been pushing him to quit. It seemed like he was like, how can I force her Shoppas to not actually be on this staff. We're gonna demote you to hitting coach. We're also going to hire another hitting coach and I'm gonna pay you less money, and Eric Shobba take money after your podcast. Also, if he felt this fucking wrong about it, why did he accept he didn't have to work for the team. It seems like he had no interest in being here besides working with Carlos Mendoza. I mean, like you said, the money wasn't an issue. The money wasn't the issue. The hymn evoking Stearns is full salary over five years. Like that's that's crazy if that has any impact on how much Eric Schaba should getting paid. Also, he did admit he got demoted from bench coach to hitting coach, but expected to be paid the same Yes, in a lesser job.
00:43:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was red flag number one.
00:43:41
Speaker 1: One number two.
00:43:42
Speaker 2: During the next season, we I had players coming up from Triple A telling me is the one that the hitting coach was telling players that the only way they can get to the big leagues is to pull the ball in the air and try to hit homers. Right. So okay, And the reason why this hit hard for me is because the hitting part is a reflection on me. Right, So I can't control, you know, what somebody else's thoughts, what they're telling our players. And they come up and I'm like, no, I don't want that.
00:44:12
Speaker 1: I want the broken I fucking knew it. I fucking knew this guy was going against the way that this team should.
00:44:18
Speaker 2: Get more hits way for the game winning hit. I don't need three run homers and guys, I want the broken bat hit to the opposite way for the game winning hit. I don't need three run homers and guys trying to hit homers where, you know, offensively, and we look at the game offensively, it's probably at as lowest and there's reasons for that. Sure. Philosophies are a big part of that. And so I went and I sent an email to the whole minor league staff. I didn't address that coach specifically, and I just said, hey, I'm hearing from players that this is what we're teaching, and I said, I adamantly disagree with this. I think we're doing a disjustice to the organization.
00:44:53
Speaker 1: And the players justice.
00:44:54
Speaker 2: And obviously David reads all the emails, so he calls me in and he tells me that, you know, what did you mean by that? And I went and I told him, I said, I I don't agree in that philosophy. I want guys to just be good hitters and the power will come. Yeah, you talk to any great player. None of them talk about hitting home runs. None of them talking about pulling the ball right. It's stay up the middle, get a good pitch to hit, you know, have a consistent path to the ball. And I said I disagree with this. He goes, well, I don't, And I go, Okay, that's fine. You can have your opinion. But I'm telling you every great hitter Hall of Fame, you go ask them, had any of them had that philosophy? And this is again we're recreating that we're getting too smart, right, No.
00:45:39
Speaker 1: This is the insecurity. This is the jock person there, the security against security thing. And it does again. Now when you see all the step you're like, oh, the Mets actually were trying to freeze Eric Shavas out of this organization. He wasn't involved in organization hitting philosophy discussions. He wasn't. They disrespected him by they disrespected by Dockney's paying Doty's role. The second David Sermons was hired, they were like, get out of it. Here, dude, and this philosophical things going on that he's not aware of. And Eric Schavez takes it upon himself send an email to the whole organization. I don't like this. I don't like this. Stop doing it. Credit David Starts for calling him in being like, let's have a conversation about that. And he was like, he was like why, And Eric Schavias is like, again anecdotal evidence, not using anything to prove his point. No good no good hitters ever said this kind of talk. Talk to any Hall of Famer. Yeah, which, by the way, I think Ted Williams was a huge proponent of pulling the baseball in the air. I think that was like a big part of his game.
00:46:28
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:46:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, talks about a lot. He did call wansto Ted Williams. Yes. Also, that was good.
00:46:33
Speaker 2: That was good.
00:46:33
Speaker 1: It didn't make on social media.
00:46:34
Speaker 2: Was great.
00:46:35
Speaker 1: That should be all over it. That's a here's one thing I will take from this. There to be negative towards David Searts for a second, both sides here. That's toxic what he's been doing to Eric Schavis for sure.
00:46:45
Speaker 2: For sure.
00:46:46
Speaker 1: It seemed like they were like, what can we do to get rid of this guy without it. And again this comes back to that well Sam a point made yesterday. I must want to see him pulse. Theyn't want to keep looking like as much turno as to quit. Maybe they wanted Mendoza to quit. I mean the language was part ways, wasn't fired, That's true. It's like I don't again if number one critique of David Stearns this person the person stuff might not come very naturally to him. Yeah, it's a nice way I can say that, but it's too smart what Eric schabb is going about. This is very funny. Yeah, it is man so sour grapes. This is also super fucking funny how David Surtns handled Eric Shavas now because Eric Schabas is an asshole, yes, seems and again seems like he didn't want him in that role. Nopee, there's your camera. There's the camera, right, so put it back.
00:47:27
Speaker 2: I'll come back. Course, most of the balls that are pull our home runs are hit hard on the pool site, of course, but that's not the message you're preaching, right, There's there's context of how to get to that, and we want guys to hit the ball hard in Homer's not by telling him to do it right, and there's I want to get there, but I don't do it that way. And even for me as a hitter, when I try to hit homers, it's either a swinging, a mess or a pop up.
00:47:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's you, Eric Shavz, that is you. That is your problem. Why are you using your anecdotal evidence to cover everybody? He admits that David Stern's process for hitting is exactly correct, and then at the exact same time says I couldn't do it though, so I would never teach it. Also, we're at the same time a full scale organizational approach for every single hit. They're probably not the best way to fellow play, of course not We did talk about it yesterday in the podcast, how the Mets do need to have A and B swings. There needs to be an adjustment when you have two strikes, you need to play the scoreboard a little bit more. That's totally true. This also might have been a flipping comment from the minor league coach, yes, like being like, oh, you guys want to get to the pros, let's let's pust fly balls, get the ball over the fence. That could just be like a ry rock kind of.
00:48:31
Speaker 2: Thing zero pitch, which which I hardly ever swung at. You try to what are you a three zero pitch? Everybody wants to go deep and you end up popping it up and you know, you get yourself out of a at a good count. So anyway, so we disagreed on that, and I told him I'm adamantly gonna stick by my guns on this. I don't believe in this, and we kind of like part of the room and coincided with the Triple A analytical hitting guy, right, And so that was number two. Number three was when we signed One. And I love One, by the way. I want will give you the shirt off his back. I think he's one of the coolest human beings, just a really good person. But he struggled the first two months emotionally, right, and I I don't blame him, big move going from the Yankees. Maybe had a little bit of buyer's remorse. It's all gonna work out. One's going to the Hall of Fame. You know. I even tapped him to be an m VP type of player, and he's he's going on like he's hitting wise, he's unreal. He struggled in between seven years into his career. He would run from the outfield and go sit on in the batting cage on a couch and not being the dugout with the teammate. Right. And like I said, I'm not throwing one. This isn't a one issue, right, This is this is a leadership, lack of leadership, lack of accountability from the top down, not.
00:49:50
Speaker 1: About cols Medoza top down. Who who is above the players? Just real quick, it's definitely the manager, the manager. There's also a situation where he goes into more of this about one not being the dug out, going in the cage. One sucked at the beginning of last year. Yeah, I could see maybe one him not being super comfortable yet, but I think a more likely reason that one Soda would have been so strict with his cage work was trying to get a swing on track.
00:50:14
Speaker 2: Yes, poor he was, And we had an assistant GM who would sit there with him. The assistance team would sit there with him and kind of and you know, tap him on the shoulder without saying, hey, dude, how about getting in the dugout with your teammates? Right? And so I brought this up to Scerns and I said, this is a huge problem because younger players, who we have younger players on the team, they're seeing this and you your guys are allowing this. And he goes, well, those players need to learn that they're not Won Soda. That was the third red flag, and I knew, okay, this is this is type of leader.
00:50:57
Speaker 1: So, like, I can understand where is coming from that, Like, no players should receive special treatment over others in a perfect world. That's how you want to exist. Wan Soda is gonna get special treatment. Everybody in the organization knows Wan So it's gonna get special treatment. He's gotten special treatment already, he got in his contract. And again it's this does kind of feel like throwing one under the bus and Sterns not Mendoza, which I think all of them would have been culpable in situation like this, but also at the same time, I would kind of like more specifics if one was one sitting on a couch and is twiddling his thumbs on his phone. Yeah yeah, And again he this makes Watso look pretty bad him saying this way after the fact. Wants so it was very settled in and now is a great leader. Yeah, seems to be a great leader. Now. I also think at the same time too, this is a shot at Francisco. Lindor feels like if he's talking about leadership and that there was a lack of one, and again, how can there be a lack of leadership and no mention about the manager being part of this vacuum where there was no leadership.
00:51:52
Speaker 2: He was a good guy though, from a GM all the way down, because it trickles down right and right then I knew, okay, we had one recovered, had a great year forty something homers, one hundred whateverle ye. And I watched him this year. He looks like a complete individual. He looks like he's getting along with his teammates. You know, obviously they're not having a great year, but you.
00:52:15
Speaker 1: Know, I believe.
00:52:18
Speaker 2: Let me go back to further about being accountable and about standing up and having a backbone. I remember in Oakland there was a double play. I was on first and a double play ball routine, and I go to second, I veer off and I'm running back into the dugout and I'm I'm getting towards It's a long walk in Oakland, and I see Billy with Lilly Bean walking down and he goes, come here. This is during the game. He takes me upstairs, he goes, what the fuck are you doing? Like, what are you talking about? He's like, why didn't you go hard? In a second, I go, I don't know, I just didn't, you know, didn't want to, you know, And he goes, you know what, Derek Jeter runs hard every single play, every play? Why can't you? And I was like, this is crazy, right, So I go back and I'm like, you know, of course, on my butt's crazy game.
00:53:09
Speaker 1: That's insane. That's fucking call out one of your players, one of your best players, in the middle of a baseball game, as the GM. That's absolutely nuts to say you didn't go hard into second base Billy being any World Series for him real quick. No. Also, I mean again, I don't believe. I don't disbelieve what he just said wasn't a huge hallmark of Billy Bean not watching the games. I thought that was like the whole thing of Moneyball. Yeah again, and Moneyball, we know left a lot of shit out, so probably.
00:53:32
Speaker 2: You know whatever, it's a routine double play. And I'm sitting in the game and I'm I'm trying to process this, and so I go back up after the game and he goes, let me show you some video, and he has video ready to go of Derek a routine little chopper back to the pic and it just hit home with me, right, and I'm like that that's backbone. That's leadership. You don't veer away from your top guys. You you attack them, you chal them, you build them up, whatever it is you need to do. Because that's the example that's gonna that's clubhouse culture. That's chemistry. Is when your best players do it right. And that's why Derek is so revered because he played every single day. He played hard, he played the game right, He was a winner, He got hits when it mattered, and home with me, you know what I mean, it's like and that was.
00:54:24
Speaker 1: What that worked out for shavas he win anything. We also say he's upset about he's saying how cool was that Billy Bean Show's backbone when the last story he gave was David Searns very much showing his backbone and telling Eric Schavs, No, this is your organization's hitting philosophy. It's just that it just didn't like that. Yeah, he didn't. He disagreed with the with the philosophy, so we didn't like the backbone. Yeah, if you're going to stand up to Eric Shavas, you better agree with him. If you have staid up Eric Shavist. No analytics involved, Yeah, absolutely not. I want to hear about this pulled fly ball, even though seconds later he does say that's what the best quality of contact is. No numbers involved, no numbers, just vibes.
00:54:57
Speaker 2: Needed at that moment, right, And he was kind of allowed to kind of do his thing. And you know, we had players kind of take that same thing during the year, and that was kind of the dysfunction that was going on, part of the problem. And as as as leaders, you have to be you can't be afraid of hitting situations on even though you might offend your best player. You know, your best pitcher. You gotta challenge him a little bit.
00:55:23
Speaker 1: Have a comment. He felt like there was a lack of leadership, of challenging. Right, let's take away. Let's just say there is no leaders right, you were on that coaching staff and you just said this. Sounds like his balls got cut off many times, I know. But like so, he had a problem with the lack of leadership, but Eric Schavaz being the leader, he had decided to also then just do nothing. And again, for some reason, this should be where the manager has step up and be the liaison, be the connector. Yeah, and maybe he Mendoza should have taken those things up with starts if they felt it was that big of an issue. I also, like, I do get it. Theoretically you want one sort of to run out every single ball. You want this, you want everyone to play hard, and it does start from the top down for the players. If you see wan So too do it. The younger players might think that definitely, But also at the same time, he's getting paideven hundred and fifty million dollars. I don't give a fuck. And also the same thing where it's like, yeah, if he was like running out of the dugout and not being in there like the whole free Yeah, that's definitely weird.
00:56:15
Speaker 2: And players that are good at some point in their lives have always been met with challenges that they've overcome, right, and that's what makes them better. Yeah, that's that's awesome because you talk about the Billy bean stuff leadership by example, and then you instantly had respect for what he did in one situation with you because he had the video dialed up. He's like, no, no, I'm not just gonna fastise you or come at you there. I'm like, hey see, I want to show you what I'm talking about.
00:56:39
Speaker 1: Right, It's true.
00:56:40
Speaker 2: You're instantly like, oh, okay, he's trying to make me better. He's trying to teach me lesson that will make me a better player. Yeah. And if he's not doing that, running hard makes a better player, so to being sitting in the cage with an assistant GM is just like rules for me and not for everybody else. Yeah, And that is a cascade of that happened as people see that it's not good. That's exactly right. So confrontation like lack of wanting to have those confrontations. That's a perfect example. This is it And you've called him out. But so at the end, just like everything that you.
00:57:16
Speaker 1: Talk calling out forgot about that, yeah, oh.
00:57:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, when when you get let go, it's the perfect back to the encapsulation of all the stuff that you just talked about. Yeah, in which I, like I said, I knew this was coming, I knew changes were coming. I didn't know the whole staff was going to be let go yeah, and he calls me, Hey, David, what's up? And we talked about this, I think before too, and he goes, you know, I'm not having a good day. Okay, what's what's crazy? He goes, well, we're going to go in a different direction, and I go okay, and he goes and he hangs up the phone right and I'm thinking to myself like, man, like.
00:57:53
Speaker 1: This did that happen? That's so funny. Not having a good day. Let's take go see you it's crazy is just low key kind of hilarious. At times. I might become a listener to the EC three. It just seems like we're gonna hear something that you'd never expect every single time. This might be the best advocate for the EC three podcast. I have no fucking clue what he's gonna say next.
00:58:17
Speaker 2: I can't literally like there's no you know, thanks for what you did, Thanks for the hard work, like they put in the hours, Like as a coach, I'd never been so for yourself as coaching, and just kind of the the lack of personal connect gratitude, appreciation for me, appreciate you for doing your job. Well, We're just gonna move on and it is what it is. Yeah, you know that was the four strike for me. You know, like, this isn't this isn't the right guy. I don't know where it came from. I don't know silt him up. You know. I heard a reporter ask him yesterday, have you thought about stepping down? And he gave a smirk and he's like no, and it's like, well, he stepped down before he stepped down in Milwaukee. I don't know if people remember this or or knew this. I have heard of why. I'm not going to get into it.
00:59:14
Speaker 1: That gun he is. Get into it, Eric, get into it. We're here, we're thirty this into the EC three podcast. Please get into it. Why you heard he stepped down? So like the Brewers are very successful during his time. So I don't think that David Stearns was forced out because of this bit. It seems like Eric Schapez has a scandal that he won't tell anybody. I don't. I don't see these smirks. Other people say I don't see him either. I just don't. Maybe I don't notice them. Maybe he's two rose colored still with David Sterns. But I just don't see the smirk. Maybe just a little thicker skin than some other people. Like we're like a smirk doesn't bother me. No, And again maybe I just don't know it. Maybe that's not me missed the smirks. Yeah, maybe maybe because we like.
00:59:49
Speaker 2: Stern so it's not beneath him to step away from a tough situation. But there's too much money, sure, and he's not going anywhere, right, he should be the guy fired, but he's not going anywhere. He's protect good by the contract that he signed. I'm pretty sure Cohen Cohen after the game before they fired, Carlos came in and said, I don't know this for sure, but something's got to happen, either you go or he goes. And I'm pretty sure they talked about it the night before. They woke up and they said, okay, is this what we want to do, and they decided to do it that morning.
01:00:29
Speaker 1: Should I fire you or him? Yeah, you know what, you can let me go?
01:00:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right.
01:00:34
Speaker 1: Also, I'll fall on this with Sopuku. Think about the insane mental gymnastics you have to do right now to be in Eric Schaviz's shoes and say, here's what I think happened on a situation that I truly have no idea of anything that's going on. That's what I'm saying to this point. The first twenty seven and a half minutes of the EC three podcast, it was when Eric Shavis was in the Mets organization. The last forty five seconds total, hearsay wasn't while he was sitting on his couch, probably in Phoenix. It seems like getting ready to go hit the lake was kicking, he said. I think what probably happened is that the night after the game, Cohen said, sterns, it's either you or him, and David Stern said, okay, well but a fire Carlos Mendoza. Then they went to sleep and woke up and said, all right, let's do it. Also, if you think that's the chain of events, you've got to be a top five stupid person. I mean, it was in the organization for a lot.
01:01:21
Speaker 2: But I knew this was coming, you know why credit he held on to Carlos a really, really long time. We saw what the Phillies did. It's not always the right or the wrong move. Sometimes a move just has to happen. Not gutting everything that's been the biggest mistakes that you don't get it. You keep, you do inventory check, you you keep the personnel that you that you know you need as your core, and you make small moves to better your team. You don't have to mortgage the future, but you make you make smart moves. And with the young players, and I see a lot of teams do this like when they're at their peak. You have to One you have to trust your evaluating process, right, And two you have to be okay with making a mistake. Right. If you trade a Mark Vantos and a bait bait Brett Batty or Alvarez and they go off and they they have great careers, you have to live with that. But also understand like that move you made to acquire the player to help you get over the hump was worth it in the long run, and sometimes you're going to get burnt by it. But being able to evaluate your own players and then committing to them, yeah right, you can't go run prevention. I'm not even gonna say that anymore. Pitching in defense and then ask players to move around defensively, you can't.
01:02:40
Speaker 1: Well, he's right there, that's totally right. The thing I'm worried about is like, why does he keep referencing trading the guys who are actually on the major league roster to prove the major league roster rather than advocating for trading minor leaguers. And then also at the same because he definitely doesn't know anything that's going on the minor leagues, but also at the same time remembers prospects or suspects shout out Buck Showalter cut from Batory with him. But like that is probably actually the biggest difference. Where these guys who came up had successful major league careers on major league coaching staffs, those young players were unestablished. Even though they're not consider the prospects technically, especially not by us the rankings or anything like that, they still consider them very not proven commodities. But those are guys that are very much more rarely traded. They also think it's super crazy to say how you need to be able to live with the mistake of trading of Viento's Baty Alvarez any of these young guys. I agree, you do have to be able to live with that mistake. Then he says you also need to commit to those guys, which you can't do both you can't trade them and you can't commit them at the same time. And then if you do want them to commit, I think there's no bigger commitment than forcing Brett Batty to play other positions. We like you so much that we're gonna put you in weird situations, and I think that was a massive mistake. But yeah, it's exactly what he is talking about that he wants to see. So it's confusing. Well, the AC three podcast is very confounding. It's very complicated. That's why we have to focus up.
01:03:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, the rest to go to left field or right field, play the outfield, first base, Biento's DH third base, first base, Like, that's really hard.
01:04:00
Speaker 1: H is a new position? Are we fucking serious? Old God? Of all the position changes he mentioned, Mark Fiento's learning how to be a DH. The only thing that he's ever been able to do even slightly above average was hit And that's the hardest position change he's had to make.
01:04:15
Speaker 2: At this level. And there's like a Kiki Hernandez, right, you could put him anywhere and he's going to do well. Those guys are really hard to come by, and it's a hard thing to do. And then you're trying to figure hisself out as a young guy. You're trying to hit, you're trying to survive, and it was whatever the philosophy was, it's all been wrong and every decision he's made has been wrong unfortunately. All Right, So I have two things that we could kind of put a cap on this emergency pod. What are you hearing from inside the staff right? Like, I'm interested, Like you mentioned a second ago, Carlos kind of had to have an idea this was possible. You still talk to people, don't have to call anybody out in like in general, like, what's the mo what was the reaction? What's the vibe that you think this team carries. Yeah, I've checked in with guys that I'm close with there. You know, from the beginning, you know, things have not been great. And I said, how you guys doing you guys keeping your head up? Yeah? Yeah, we're working hard, We're you know, things were always good and positive. I think standpoint you always have to have that. You got to show up every day with a smile, ready to go, regardless of where you've come from. I texted Carlos yesterday and I said, keep your head up high. You're you're well respected. I respected you. You know, he's just he was set up to fail. Like he took. He took a team that Billy Eppler had built to the A L c S that was on Billy. And that's when right and l sorry sorry and.
01:05:45
Speaker 1: Else doesn't even know what league he played it. That's why we need handling again.
01:05:53
Speaker 2: So he has the pedigree to to manage and and be really good at this game. And he's gonna land on his feet. It's just I know, it's hard because emotionally you put everything like he los. I know he's losing sleep, like you're constantly not thinking about what moves and you know, I know people are like, you know, he's got to do this. And when you lose, you can kind of nippick anything you want, you know, like if you're fiery, you can go. He's too fiery. Yeah, not firey, go you need more fire, you know you can. You're just losing and it's not working. Whatever's happening, it's not working.
01:06:24
Speaker 1: Also, I want to refute one thing too, that that the twenty twenty four team was built by Billyepler. I'm gonna go through the starting line for that team, and I want to try and remember where they came from. Sure, yeah, Francisco Alvarez not Billy, Billyeppler, Pee Alonzo not Billyeppler, Jeff McNeil not Billyeppler, Francisco Lindor not Billyeppler, Mark Fianzos not Billy Eppler, Brenda Neimo not Billy Eppler, Harrison Baylor, Billy Eppler, Novi Serns, David Serns, Starling, Marte Billy Eeppler. There you go, and then let's go rotation. Luis Savarino not Billyeppler, Sean and Aya not Billy Eppler, Jose Quintana Billy Eppler, and don't forget he had a tumor that broke his bones and his trips. Edwin Ds not Billy Eppler. That's those are the big pieces there, so very not Billy Eppler and lcs almost actually exclusively no Billy Eppler players, Brooks Raley, Yes, seven innings, but of all the guys to give credit to for that team, that's the one is really difficult too. It's creazy like Sandy and Brody get more credited for four team in retrospect, much more had his hands much more on the miners guys that we're seeing now, definitely, and some of the ones that don't work out there. I mean yeah, No, his baby was a draft before Alphares, was before Dances, before Billy drafted a j Ewing. He drafted McLean, He drafted Nolan McLain, Yes, and Jonah Tong and Jonah Tong.
01:07:45
Speaker 2: But the real corporate is the guy, the puppet master right running the whole show, doing it his way, bringing in the players that he thinks, you know, is a is a contender, puppet mass I have failed, right, don't go as an organization, he said the other day. We're looking for a coaches to get the maximum out of every player. And first of all, let me take this back. As a player that played for a long time, not one time that I ever blame anything negative on any coach. Was never a hitting coach. When I was wasn't a hitting coach. I was in a fielding slump. It was me, you got you gotta be take ownership. You got to be a pro and understand like these guys are men, they're responsible for their own career. I was responsible for my own career. Account who I listened to That was up to me and that was part of, you know, my decision making of my performance. But my performance was me right. And I had coaches helped me along the way and and all this, but not one coach that I ever go, Man, this guy screwed me up. And if it screwed you up, that's your fault. If you're listening to people that aren't helping you, that's your fault. You need to reevaluate your team. And so yeah, it's just, uh, I don't know if the coaching staff. They everybody works hard like it's it's a it's everybody wants to blame you, but when they do well, they don't want to give you any credit, which you really like you you're as a coach, you're not there. You're not there for credit or blame. You just help.
01:09:13
Speaker 1: Wasn't there in person a lot? Yeah, he was in Arizona, Arizona to show up and you know.
01:09:17
Speaker 2: You flip balls and you you have you try to have conversations with them to you know, mentally kind of get them over the hump of a slump.
01:09:23
Speaker 1: But what was he doing last year? It doesn't seem like he even he was doing. They really pushed him out. Yeah, they from the beginning. Again, if I was in Rik Shova's shoes, probably would find ways to do less, Yes, And if I was sending emails to everyone in the organization and challenging the president the philosophy. What's funny is Eric Schoffs actually has a leg to stand on about the culture of David Stearns with the people beneath him. I think that is totally a fair conversation because it doesn't seem under Eric Schoff's experience that he was treated particularly fairly by David Stearns. Seems actually very unfair. Yeah, So, like I think that's where they should have gone. But to say he's talking about all the stuff that makes all his points feel invalid, which is where it's the jock versus nerd argument always, And this funny is the thing of that's kind of lost in a lot of the public discussions about David Sears. I feel like a lot of the things be most critical about him are the things that no one talks about, which is again, poor person in person relationships, trying to thread the needle too much and not I mean sometimes maybe having a little bit too much confidence in hubris and some of the moves that they may not back not backfilling and having plan bs available where it's more of the top line stuff that he gets discredited for, and it's like a lot of stuff is still kind of like, I don't know, Horry Plum getting injured, your propa thoughts could chance that happen again? Robert getting injured the Popashett think is the bad one.
01:10:38
Speaker 2: But yes, for the most part, you take accountability for your performance on the field. Is there any I always like this messages of positivity. I've enjoyed the passion of the Mets fans over the past forty eight hours. Yeah, like the signs at the games, the chants and everything. Is there any message that you could would want to send to the fans as like because this okay, Everything's gonna be all right? Like, what message do you have for Mets fans that I know have been actively engaging with you on social media? Yeah? No, I had first hand experience last year and handle and dealt with them. Passion, just passion, just you know, continue to show up like you have the right owner in place. You can't have a better owner. City Field is a gem, you know, Queen's in the next five to ten years, that little area is going to be fantastic. It's gonna happen. I really firmly believe that. Like Cohen, you know, he doesn't get to where he's at life without you know, you know, some hurdles, and he's had some hurdles in his in his career, but he's a winner and he puts the money where his mouth is, and you know, he's got the energy and the effort for it. Fans keep up the passion, like you know, yeah, the team is probably not gonna be where you want them to be. And we all want winners. We all want to go cheer on winners. But I think you know, from the messaging from front office ownership to the fans is I think they just want accountability, you know, want Ron Washington, one of my favorite coaches of all time who probably should be managing the Sans Giants right now, and he told me, and the way Rosh talks like I don't know if you've heard, it's beautiful. I'm not going to try to imitate his voice like you told me, just say you fucked up. That's nobody can say anything. And I've always taken that to the heart when you mess up. Just you know what, Listen, the stuff that I've done since I've gotten here hasn't worked. We're going to reevaluate our process and be different and try to give you guys a winner. We failed you, period, and you know what the fans would be like, don't sell them bullshit.
01:12:49
Speaker 1: But here's the only thing that I'm going to say. Well, and it's not the only thing. I don't know how I said that, but like, oops, I went out of full screen. They did. They said that the in twenty twenty four did not work. We need to change or twenty twenty five, my bad did not work. They got rid of a lot of it too much. Are we know that we know that's the case, but that was a blanket statement by David Searns. Didn't work. We're changing it up. And when he came out for the press conference on Friday, he was like this, seasons of failure. Yeah, it's on my shoulders. Anything goes wrong with this baseball team, in baseball operations, it's on make It's pure accountability. So it is interesting how like again, people do hear what they want to hear, and we know that with our comment section. At times like and we miss and we we miss smirks. Yes, we miss smirks. We do miss smirks because we want to hear not smirks. But it is funny. He's like take accountability and say we're gonna change it. They just did this off season. It's just that the change didn't work. The change was wrong again, and probably gonna make another change next year if I had the chance, A guess, and I don't think you can particularly make that change. On June twenty ninth, part of the change was fired in your buddy, Carlos Mendoza.
01:13:51
Speaker 2: That's roight up there, up there with the smirk, Like look them in there and say, this is smirk. I've messed up. I'm disappointed. We're gonna re evaluate our process and we're going to get this thing right right. Don't feed them bullshit. Those fans are just too educated, the too to hear the bs. Just shoot them straight there, they're you know there, it's a it's a tough town. Just give them, give it to them, you know, straight, and they'll expect you for it. Anything else, Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
01:14:20
Speaker 1: How?
01:14:20
Speaker 2: How how do we fix this? How do we move forward? Manager GM moving forward? What's the next move? Right?
01:14:27
Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear this.
01:14:28
Speaker 2: They're going to clear the house in the off season. Well you got to start with one. So who takes that job? Like like, okay, so that I mean that, that's the thing. So so I've heard, I've heard I will take that job. I've heard, uh Baltron. The kind of alarming thing for me is Beltron's there. What's Carl's doing there? He's like a special assistant, Like he's there, Like if you really wanted to move forward with Carlos, and maybe maybe Carlos didn't want the job, that's where people are like, oh, higher JD. Martinez is or hire this guy some Sometimes these guys just don't want to do it. And Carlos is there, And if you wanted to move forward with Carlos, get him the experience of the next let him build a rapport with the players and sterns and see how things work. So I'm a little surprised that it wasn't Carlos. But if you for me, like if you did a combination, are you you need a strong personality there one right, and you need if your best players want you need a strong personality right because these players, right, Dusty Baker was the right fit for Barry Bonds and Jeff Cannon, all those guys. Bo T was the right fit for you know, Francis like, you need a somebody who walks into the room and around respect and dignity.
01:15:53
Speaker 1: Now does he hear what he's saying that the next manager that the Mets hire needs to have like a little bit of confidence, a little bit of a leadership, needs to be a loud personality, needs to have leadership ability, needs to be able to take accountability. That is kind of a back way, backhanded way of also saying that Carlsmandoza was not that guy. He doesn't realize he's saying that. I don't think he does, but I think he Maybe Sam carlsz was, But then he's not there.
01:16:19
Speaker 2: You just know that they're a leader, right, and Albert poolholes or a combination with Albert, Yeah, and Beltron or Joey Korra walks into that room. Yeah, there's definitely some options from the manager side. You gotta get that right first of all, put it. Put a leader in there who's not afraid to speak his mind, that the players are going to respect they may not like always what you say, but they're gonna like that conversation I had with Billy I didn't maybe he didn't like it at the time, but I respected it and it hit home with me, and those are those are what leadership leadership.
01:16:50
Speaker 1: She's talking about gms now, not man now, he's not talking about managers now, he's talking about gms. But when his backhanded saying them and those didn't have these qualities, totally, he has no clue he's saying that he doesn't realize is that he's completely throwing Mendos under the bus with this. And I think a lot of people are watching this might not have even picked up on that because it wasn't framed in that way. But he's totally saying that the Mets didn't have this. I mean, seventy five minutes into the EC three, watch along the Mets up, guys, like, we're so really going to get into it now. Also electric for him to talk about how he respected that Billy Bean told him he was wrong, But what David Starts told him he was wrong, he was like, oh, fuck yourself. Also, if anyone got through this entire part with us, with us to this we need to we need to set special words for the YouTube comments. Oh give me a disjustified that's way too long. That's where I can get people. Then what's another one? He keeps talking with Billy beans. Canna say beans yap beans?
01:17:41
Speaker 2: Bean leaders do. But the GM side like, for me, go back and hire Billy Eppler. You had the right guy. It was an inside job. You had the right guy. He would have built you a winner. By now, I firmly believe that what happened. And if that, if you want a wild card, this is what I would. Let's go. I've talked about him before the go go open the check. Bu dude, I don't think THEO you know what he's done with Chicago and Boston. Never really met THEO person. I met him walking by whatever. But I have a ton of respect for you know, what he's built and what he's again accomplished. What it's not you know, uh, in the future, I think CEO that has a process. Right, he is a proven process, correct? Right? Correct? You've got here. Here's the fundamentals of what I believe in and what I implement and here's how my structure works. Right, here's how I do it. Yeah, and like that's what you're talking about. Do you want to go create, Go get THEO and and open the check buck and say, come build me a winner because he's done it.
01:18:48
Speaker 1: Another great idea too, I think they should dig up Yogi Bearro's body and let him manage as well. He's a proven winner one hundred.
01:18:55
Speaker 2: Two franchises that was starving for it the third one. Like I said, I don't know if that's even possible. If THEO wants to do it. I think he's pretty happy where he's at. But yeah, there's you know, staying pat and kind of running this out. You know. I don't know that that's the right decision unless they get together as a front office and go, man, we really have to change the way we're doing things because it's not working. Awesome stuff, man, Emergency Pod, Yes, we got it. You can like to subscribe if you like what you heard today on YouTube, Spotify, Apple podcasts. We put podcasts out Baseball once a week. He is shavy. I'm Chris Emergency Pod. Mets in there mess of a situation here before.
01:19:41
Speaker 1: The open invite to Chris Hamblin to ever come on the METSU podcast and Eric Svas if Eric Schappas wants to come on, I would love to have him on. There's no shot he does. He's got to bring handling with him. It's a package deal, yes, package deal. One man. I don't know. I do want to just let him loose, hambling, hambling, let him loose. That was crazy. That was uh. I mean, that was third nine minutes of kind of almost nothing there was. I mean, the ones that made to social media were big. A couple of those stories, like Eric shav Is sending the full organizational email at all, some of those stuff and then him backhanding saying bunch of badge of the bat Mendoz at the end was yeah, kind of sad, but also funny, kind of funny at the end of the day. It totally comes off with sour grapes. It comes off as I have one way I wanted to do things. He has his other way. We didn't agree, and I think he's wrong, and look, he hasn't won, so he is wrong. I'm right. And seemingly the biggest story of this whole thing was that Shavs was like a black sheep in the organization with David Stearns tried to push him out and then seemingly kind of gave him like the unplugged in controller you give your little cousin while you're playing video game like when or you put the kid on like the motorcycle at the arcade, but you don't put in the money. You're like, Wow, you're doing so good. And whether or not you more so agreed with the Mets organizational philosophy or shav is his philosophy, it probably was destructive to have two people go saying different things to different players at different times. Yes, I do think if I am going to take any negative on Sterns from this podcast, based on what we've heard from Eric Shabaz, it does seem like there is a culture issue and that is something that probably needs to be addressed better, especially even what we talked about how keeping mendos are around completely new coaches and knowing that those coaches and Mendoza definitely didn't get along very much. A lack of person to person understand and that might be the biggest critique I have, along with the fact that they're not winning baseball games. Gotta win baseball games. And now my camera won't turn on, so we gotta call all right, that's it. Thank you guys for watching. Let us know if you like to watch along. I don't know. It's like an hour and twenty minutes. It's a long one, but subscribe to events ever. I think it is our longest one ever. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google. You can follow James on social media at James Shannon. I'm draftnick Mark. Thank you all for watching, Thank you for listening. We'll catch on the next one. Shout Eric Shavis, peace out, peace out guys.
01:21:46
Speaker 3: Let's comments, and then lost the loves, and then the lo
Speaker 1: What is up? Mets fans, Welcome to the live watch along of the EC three podcast. Yes, you are seeing Eric Schavez his face on our screen. He has dropped a podcast, didn't even though he had one. Good for him. I guess he's jobless right now, so he's got to do the podcast circuit. He is talking about the Mets and he's airing the dirty laundry. May have seen some clips on Twitter. You may have seen some stuff on foul Territory. Eric Schava has been running his mouth recently because the Mets are in free fall, and I'm sure he feels pretty good about it, considering he was fired at the end of last season. We're going to live watch this. We're gonna pause, make comments, critiques. I think, James, you've seen a little bit more than me. A lot of this is gonna be first time rip for me. I saw the first ten minutes yesterday when I was like, wait a second, I just want to save this and do this pure So this would just be a fun idea for our third episode this week. So I'm sure not that many people still at the end of the day are running to watch the full flow length ECS podcast, right No, I don't think so. But you'll now watch Mark and James of the metsup podcast, watch the EC three podcast. I'm not linking in the description. That's one thing I'm not doing. You can go find it yourself if you want to. But uh, subscribe to our channel mets up. Yeah, bat further ado, I mean, here we go, Here we go, Eric Chavez, gotta start off with the vertical. Oh yeah, this TikTok is so you need to start with a TikTok, which is good. Yeah, all right, here we go.
00:01:22
Speaker 2: So the met let me rephrase that, so surns besides to fire Mendoza, why not the whole stets promo. Well, he's he's already used that bullet in the chamber, right, he's running out of bullets.
00:01:38
Speaker 1: What are these? What are these?
00:01:40
Speaker 2: Me? This was inevitable, This was the next step. But Carlos wasn't a problem.
00:01:49
Speaker 1: Who's editing this? Who edited this? Who? There's so much there's so many breaks in this that its driving me insane. It could be so much more concise. Also, at the same time, again, I don't know why the conversation and has become by a lot of people that Carlos Mendoza wasn't the problem. He for sure was part of the problem. Also, why are those so many people? Was Carlos Mendoza versus David Stearn's I don't think it was ever really like that. And I just have to commend Derek Travis. I don't think I've ever heard the podcast use the word bullets twice in the first nine seconds. Yes, he's he's really uh's talking about bullets. He's using all his bullets early on check out the Phoenix Country Club. I think he spent a lot of time there last year. Right, he did break found him on Instagram.
00:02:27
Speaker 2: And I've said it before, Right, none of the moves that he's made where's this usage or have made have worked out? They just haven't.
00:02:34
Speaker 1: It's so loud. We need to break this down on the American.
00:02:40
Speaker 2: Podcast three podcasts. Yes, don't miss it.
00:02:44
Speaker 1: Good grasp, it's gonna be hard hit.
00:02:47
Speaker 2: Carlo's wasn't the problem. Right, We're back here with the first time we've done. This is an emergency episode of the podcast with six Times Gold Glover, Eric Chavez and Shaby Love.
00:03:05
Speaker 1: The introduc show six Times Gold Glover, Eric Schavaz to the podcast that he is his. I need to find out who's Chris Hamblin?
00:03:11
Speaker 3: Yeah?
00:03:11
Speaker 1: Can we get a little Chris Hamblin background check real quick, just so we know where this guy's coming from. I know where he's gonna be, you know, glazing chavas the entire time. The first one that popped up my LinkedIn is the head women's soccer coach at Harvard. Don't think that can imagine that's this guysover. The next one absolutely not. Next one. The next one sets up drag shows. Not himy, they're gonna go out on them. It's not him. I hope it too. So I guess I don't know who' Chris Hamblin is Probably a friend?
00:03:40
Speaker 2: Yeah?
00:03:40
Speaker 1: Probably? All right, here we go.
00:03:42
Speaker 2: We do emergency podcast on this show very rarely, but after what has taken place with the New York Mets and your experience in.
00:03:52
Speaker 1: New York, it's an interesting move.
00:03:54
Speaker 2: And then your initial reaction that you posted on social media yesterday, I wanted.
00:04:01
Speaker 1: To are these guys in the same room and split screening because it looks like this is the same room they are. The back window looks the same but slightly disjointed, and it feels like we're just on a wide table and we brought together for a close table. Oh, they are in the same room and they've decided to do a split screen, which is also a choice, a split screen without actually splitting the screen. They just they just made it look more confusing. Okay, yeah, that's that's enough of the low blow shots. Let's now take actual shots at their shot.
00:04:31
Speaker 2: Come in and just let you kind of give us your thoughts on what's been going on, right first and foremost your reaction. Then, I always when these things happen, I always just hate to have just the dump, right, and you said something great this morning, like, then I want to have a plan, like here's my plan would be moving forward. So the Carlos Mendoza at the two X speed and you have a very unique perspective as to the regime that's in power now and the regime that you worked for. You've worked for both of them.
00:05:05
Speaker 1: So in twenty Chabez looks bored. Schabez looks bored. I'm bored already. I'm gonna say this. Yes, he does have a unique position on this regime. He was not hired by this regime. He was fired by this regime. So I got to assume that Eric Shabaz is not gonna like what was going on. It's just an idea, and two of his very good friends in the industry are also both fired.
00:05:23
Speaker 2: By the year he's twenty two. You were the hitting coach for the Mets. In twenty twenty three, you were promoted to bench coach under Buck Show Walter Shoe Walter gets Run Eppler as well. At the end of that season and the offseason gets run and the decision that you make, you're able. When Carlos Mendoza comes in to have a really had a relationship with him. You stayed on board, right, And that's when the Stearns regime comes in, and that that first year you guys go to the NLCS.
00:05:58
Speaker 1: If you lose meat this option, I don't.
00:06:02
Speaker 2: I'll let you get into it. And then twenty twenty five, so funny about no playoffs staff turnover, and that gets us to twenty twenty six, where before the All Star break, more staff turnover and as you put it on your post, someone's running out of bullets. Yeah, and loves that. Yeah, I don't even know. Let's just start at the beginning. Carlos, we have a history giving Yankees organization. I love Carlos. When he came over, we interviewed, we talked.
00:06:31
Speaker 1: It feels like we don't need to start at the beating. By the way, I don't want to hear about anything about Carlsmonoz with the Yankees, in your relationship with him when he worked with the Yankees. Literally get to the fucking point. I think you should do expeed this to X speed through and then when we get to a hot shot, then we can put it back down. I think, right, we're so what's from preamble? Right now, we're three minutes nothing said. Three minutes in, we're through half a baseball game. I thank god he was an extremely talented baseball player.
00:06:56
Speaker 2: This is this is I already knew.
00:06:59
Speaker 1: I would that's too fast, that's too fast, that's too fast, too too fast? Uh one to five, I'll try one five.
00:07:05
Speaker 2: I would like the man I knew working under boone for all those years as the as the band coach, learning from him. Who I really respect. The way Aaron bon goes about his business. I respect, you know, even Kashman. The whole Yankee organization I think is extremely well run, and I think every organization should you know, look to them as is how to do it right right Cashrom's been there for thirty.
00:07:21
Speaker 1: Okay, I'm going to interject real quick because one of the clips I saw was from Foul Territory as well as from this podcast of Eric Schabas saying he's over analytics, that you shouldn't be using analytics to run your team, James, real quick, it's a big thing that the Yankees used to run their their organization. They have one of the most robust analytics departments in all of baseball and now honestly earlier to most other teams as well. Yeah, you know, just just making sure we definitely haven't seen like clips of Clint Fraser and other guys talking about how analytics have been ruining the Yankees. But now because Eric Schabaz was not fired from the Yankees, he does love the way that their organization is being run. Was he not fired from the Yankees? No? I think we just oh we took him, Yeah we took him.
00:07:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, we poshed him plus years whatever, multiple series, they go to playoffs, every year, they develop players, they drop well, they just do it right, you know, And I think every organization should look at this. I instantly I knew. I wanted to say with Carlos, we hit it off right away, you know, we make that run. You know, Carlos was the right guy, you know, in a tough obviously in a tough city. Being bench coach, going a manager, that's completely different seat. But he he's a good baseball man. He's just a great individual. There's no reason why, you know, he wasn't capable of being the leader. He took us to the alcs and a hundred percent.
00:08:26
Speaker 1: And I think that's what a lot of the criticism for the firing of Mendoza has been is that he's a great, great dude. And I don't baseball man, baseball guy. I don't think that there's anything against that. Nothing has show us that Carls Mendoza isn't a good person, that he isn't a baseball life for all this kind of stuff opposite, opposite, if anything, the managerial stuff in game decision making, actual things that matters, wins and losses. I don't think that you can see what he's done and say he's done a great job. No, actually quite the opposite. And again, both of these things can be true. You could be bad tactically, but you could also be really good guy. Yes, and I think both things are true, and it seems like people are having a hard time separating those two things, which we're going back to one point speed now because now they're actually talking Carlos. Let's go.
00:09:07
Speaker 2: So, yeah, he has the he has the pedigree, he knows the game, he knows how to deal with people. And this was the wrong fire why why yeah we can I'm just let's just get right to it immediately. Serns was the wrong hire. And I think why we can kind of dive into you know, you know, his huge contract five years, fifty million dollars with really and we've talked about this before about you know, climbing the total pole and achieving certain things and kind of earning your way to the top. You know, he came from Milwaukee, built a great farm system, didn't really accomplish anything, you know, And I want to know who who told Steve Cohen that this guy was the next guy?
00:09:59
Speaker 1: Okay, Gota we gotta address a little bit like listen, again, this is not gonna be like a glazing David Stearns fest. Again we've talked about on the podcast, and yet there are still comments that don't seem to understand what we are saying. David Stearns the last year and a half has been an absolute mess. Almost every decision that he's made has not gone right. Since the trade deadline, It's been a complete disaster on acquisitions and players in and team performance. There's no doubt about it. But I do think that we're probably gonna see some goalposts moving here by Eric Schavas in terms of what makes a successful GM and President of Baseball Ops. Well, that's what I'm saying, that not accomplish anything, not accomplish anything. So does that mean, I guess impossibly, in Eric Shav's mind the only accomplishments are pendance and World Series, and that could possibly be true. I could definitely see a lot of play people from the former player ranks feeling that way. But then you can't. Sometimes you just can't hire guys who have World Series ranks because they're not leaving their current situations. And David Stearns had multiple divisions and playoff runs and went to the NLCS Game seven multiple times lost to the Dodgers. Even before David Stearns was the Brewers, he was with the Astros. He was an understudy in this organization that was actually turning go over world serious championship. So if wherever you moved the goalposts again, whether you could say he was possibly anointed too far, that could be fair, but at the same time say he didn't accomplish anything. It's really a reductive view of someone who's a successful executive before taking that same job. Here, I also feel like, you know Andrew Friedman Dodgers, he was with the Rays. They didn't win anything. They didn't they didn't win a World Series. Under Andrew Friedman, they were successful similarly to that of Stern. So it is interesting. I feel like in baseball there's very few hires that I can remember that run organizations now that had prior success, because, like you said, you don't leave when you have that success, and usually when those guys leave it's because they're done with the job. They retire like theo. Epstein's kind of the last big one that I and I guess Dombrowski too now, but like Epstein was a big one going from the Red Sox to the Cubs with the lineage of winning, like Cashman's not leaving all the all the guys that have been winning don't typically leave.
00:11:53
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00:12:00
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00:12:20
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00:12:55
Speaker 1: And that's also the other part that gets missed in these conversations about Davis Serines, the Metskysic, theowebscene. Dave don Browski is like a big part of that job is to build the organizational processes, and we're not inside enough to know how successful those have been. With David Stearns, we're assuming they're better because they were so bad. Well here the last few regime regimes yet, but well these are stuff wall come out. So it's like you can't it's hard to hop this job time over time over time and expect good results process wise from your organization. Yes, so I don't know. I'm sure, Eric Shav Eric Schabas, by the way, has he won anything? Just quick check for me. I don't think so. Was he bench player two thousand and yekes? He surely won a World series if he is talking about success and using that as a benchmark as to how you get your jobs. Eric Shavis six time goal Glove, one time Silver Slugger, zero time All Star, Okay, got it? Cool?
00:13:40
Speaker 2: Yeah, just make it right without even accomplishing anything. And I think that's where we kind of fault. We come up a little short in baseball. As we award players, you know, the greatest whatever. We're quick to jump the gun on people without having them be proven. And you're seeing a lot of this in the game, whether you're who.
00:14:00
Speaker 1: Who do we jump the gun on without being proven? By the way Carls Mendoza, if we do want to talk about proven he had he was a first time manager. There was not anything that he has done successful in his life in terms of managerial success. So it's again it's a crazy goalpost being moved. There's also and this is something that's become a broader conversation. It's come from Eric Shava has been a big conversation baseball the last two days. Like we said the podcast, he hatually a huge conversation basketball for the last whole week about analytics versus like former players front office roles. I feel like there's this idea of these guys who like climb the mountain top athletically physically, of like gatekeeping the games. Yes, where you could be good at playing and bad at managing, good at managing, bad at playing and I think that there's this kind of like insecurity sometimes of these guys that there's other people come in and able to run these teams and organize organizations in a way that they don't think makes sense to them, and they need to take their shots at Well, we'll get into more of this as we keep moving. I can conceptually understand. Again, this is gonna be the nice thing I say about Shavaz the entire time, he was a very good baseball player. He was. He was awesome with the A's and like the no All Star shot, no world seriously, like those loos weren't really in his control. He was a phenomenal third baseman, great hitter in Oakland. He had a successful baseball career. Similarly, it's like when you're really good at your job and you have someone who couldn't do your job telling you how your job should be done. Yeah, it's a total mind fuck for these guys. They have no idea, especially the old garb have no clue how to handle it. And Eric Chavs was someone who actually kind of I think benefited from analytics in terms just a little bit, but like in terms of like evaluating a player because Eric Schavaz He was like a two sixty two eighty hitter with like a good on base percentage, like some power get a good couple of thirty homer seasons close to it in his prime, but fantastic defense at third. Basic he's a guy who put up for the war. And you're like, oh, this actually was a really good player. Yeah he also I thought he was a fantastic player. Ah, yes, of course, but this is just it is funny again the goalpost movement that is going to I think continue to happen here.
00:15:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, which is there managers that have zero experience or you know, never can a big league dugout. We've kind of jumped the gun on awarding people before they even accomplished anything. So was that mentality like okay, so you're you're on the staff, this guy comes in. Is that what you're thinking immediately when they give him this title that's never been created with the Mets before they put him in a position that I mean, there was some overlap between Eppler and Stearns, right, so you have the overlap situation. So take me to when this is all going down, what everybody's thinking, like, this is going to go horribly wrong or maybe this guy knows what he's doing. Was it bad from the get you know? Yeah, I mean Cohen had the right guy, he had Eppler, you know, if he would still be there. There was an inside hit job that got Billy fired. Yeah, complete bs situation. I'm not going to dive into that, but yes, so when you say a hit job, right, like, there were people actively playing politics behind the scenes to run him out and was it Sterns that likely was the puppet master of that now and he could get all the control all okay, not at all. He came into a situation that was a fire was lit prior to him getting there. You know, I think, Steve, how funny is that?
00:17:16
Speaker 1: So carl Eric Schabas mentions that there was an inside hit job to get Billy Eppler out, well, because that was the whole thing with the guys and the injurl lists who weren't on the injured list, and he was under investigation. He wounded up being let go when he was allegedly going to remain at general manager and I think he actually will have I think Billy Eppler, truthfully, looking back, probably is a good foil for a guy like David Stearns, because he has a hands on he comes more from the scathing world, and like he's a member of the Brewers organization now and he has been for two years working as a special advisor to Matt Arnold. So I'm sure that I'm honestly sure that maybe Stern's even helping in a word for him there, Like yeah, I mean I am confused about just the direction of where we're going still, because it's anti David Stearns. Billy Upper was the guy Stearns didn't force him out, though it was somebody else from the inside. But the problem is all David Stearns. That's not connecting. That comment really helps me with Eric schab Is, you know, like reputability in this whole podcast, it's like you get another chance to dump on Sterns. No one really, I mean some people who worked in the metal work in twenty twenty three could corroborated that against him. But like that's so the fact that someone else out there with a hit job by Billy Elp is incredible. That is insane. Poor Billy Eppler, he's doing good.
00:18:20
Speaker 2: You know that he wanted to go with Sterns. That was a well documented grew up in New York's met fans. I don't know why that would even matter. They don't have the grace of love and winning. Yeah, sure it's equation. But yeah, I was because I didn't know David. I had some people talk to me about him. There was some good, some bad. But I was optimistic. I think anytime you start something new, and everything was kind of fresh. Carlos was hired, David was coming in. You're you're optimistic, you know, and when you have an owner like Steve Cohen, And by the way, can we stop with the Steve Cohen needs to go? Not that is every team should want to know. He's willing to spend the money to win. He just he's emotionally involved. He he really wants this team to win. And that might be a problem.
00:19:14
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe we don't want emotionally emotionally involved. I want him financially involved. Now, I want him emotionally wanting winning, intrigued on winning. I think he is. He's very said fast how badly he wants to win. But maybe we don't really know what's going on the edges between decision making. But this, this is this is a strange diet tribe, even for Eric Chovas. So I do want to like, can we get to the fucking point.
00:19:34
Speaker 2: He's going to get there at some point, you know. Like I said, I just don't know where he got the advice that that Stearns was going to be the guy. It's plain and simple. He's not. He's made a lot of mistakes, right from from day one, you know. Last year. I'll go back to this a little bit, and I've hint on it before.
00:19:51
Speaker 1: Here we go.
00:19:52
Speaker 2: We didn't make the right moves to get us into the playoffs, right. We had struggled mightily in the beginning. Offensively, pitchers were great, Yeah, they were probably over forming at the time, and the offense picked up towards the end of the year. The offense was rolling. The pitching really really was hurting. The moves, the right moves the starting pitching, the two or three right moves weren't made, and that's why we kind of didn't make the playoffs and we kind of burnt out at the end. I really firmly believe in my heart that if that team had gotten into the playoffs, it was going to be I'm not saying we were gone all the way, but God, we would have been dangerous with the right moves made. What were the moves that needed to be made. We need and we needed some bullpen arms.
00:20:33
Speaker 1: Okay, two starting pitchers. The best starting pitcher that was moved on the deadline last year was Merril Kelly. Merrill Kelly sunk the Ranger season. He was horrible. Any chance that they had of getting hot in the second half, Meryl Kelly absolutely demolished that. So the Mets could have either trade for Merril Kelly or was Flairty moved again last deadline or no he wasn't. No, he stuck with tadlines ago. So yeah, I think this is something that we've said too. I wish we could have magically found whoever the starting pitchers that were going to be traded were and had him on the Mets. There was nobody moved. There wasn't a starting picture to get no, and that's why it was a unique and historic deadline for relief pitchers, which we tried to do that we got all of them. One of the most consistent relief pitchers, consistent and dominant relief pitchers and all of baseball over the last five years, and he just completely failed. Shane Bieber was the other starting pitcher was moved last year and he was still in the injury list for three weeks after that happened. And it's like it's it was just not a deadline for starting pitchers and moves. But that's like today, Yeah, Dustin May which was a complete disaster. And to bring up like a couple of bullpen arms, they grabbed a bunch of bullpen arms. They got Hellsley, they got Tyler Rogers, David when got Gregorrisoto a little bit earlier, right before the deadline. So like, yep, everything was relatively addressed except the starting pitch. Now we can tell yes, yeah, cool, we could add zactly tell Like if that's what Eric Schabas is saying the Mets needed to make the playoffs, lash, you're Merrill Kelly's actly tell? Okay, Like shade us for not thinking that these bad pictures would have been guys that we needed to go get. Meryl Kelly's not bad, but he was terrible in that sense. Also say this, like to think about how them as acted after the trade deadline. About two and a half weeks later, Nolan McClain was on the team. Yah if he was swung two or three of these deals for the veterans, and then maybe Nolal mclin doesn't come up and he was better than any of those guys could have been at all. So maybe that was I'm sure something the front office considered as well. I mean, of course, with sprote, Tong and mclan all getting their chances after the trade deadline, they were like, are we giving up assets to get something that's even better than what we actually have here right now? And it doesn't seem like it. And I do think again, a lot of these things can be true. David Searns made moves. The moves did not work, and at the time, I think any met fan who thought that that was going to be the case, again, you were lying or you just had a predisposed bias that you didn't want to like these moves no matter what they were, because on paper, they were all good trades without a doubt. And just like a third of the way through the EC three podcast right now, I think Early Takes is sour grapes. Sour grapes shocker. The guy who got fired by the President of Baseball Operations doesn't love the way that the President of Baseball Operations, does his job and then a hitchob done on one of his best friends in the industry. Yes, as well, both of his best friends. It seems like he loves Billyupler, he loves Carlos Mendoza.
00:23:14
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:23:14
Speaker 1: Don't listen to what Eric Schabas said though about prior experience and pedigree, because that doesn't apply to Carls Mendoz being the manager or Billy Elpler being the GM.
00:23:23
Speaker 2: The ones, the players that were brought in, whether it was you know, they weren't the right fit for New York, which you got to do your homework on these guys if you're gonna bring him to a big town like this, the right pieces just didn't perform. They hadn't worked out.
00:23:36
Speaker 1: How could you do homework to know if someone is right for New York? It's could you ask Brian Helsley, can you handle the bright lights? And I was gonna say no, Yeah, he says no, Definitely don't get him then like he's gonna pull the Zach Grankey where Granky's like, I can't pitch for the Yankees. Yeah, Like David Bednar is from Pittsburgh, he handles New York. Well, yeah, I feel like that we know they didn't handle it well, but I don't know how we could have known that better. There possibly could have been so ways to suss this out, like maybe speaking to friends in the industry about how these guys short themselves. But begat Helsley's the main one there where Secha Amalin sucked, who's gonna suck them a otther what Tyler Rogers was solid? Who's gonna be solid on oyther Wise? Gregory's house sucked? Yeah, well now he was okay again. Ryan Helsley was the breaking point last year. It's just broke very much.
00:24:17
Speaker 2: You know, he tried. You know.
00:24:19
Speaker 1: By the way, what were some of Billy Eppler's trade deadline acquisitions that worked out really really well? Just for people at home. I finally remember Mets fans looking back to twenty twenty two trade deadline really being a fan. Tyler and Aquin, Yes it's my brother ain damn picture back picture Darren Ruff.
00:24:34
Speaker 2: And I think another huge fault of it was we had young players that you can't hold on to all of them. Right. We had a great farm system Billy put together and started rebuilding the farm system, and we had jumped out to I think number one in the farm system, at least the top five. And you hold on to some of these guys too long and they're value. They're not all going to pan out right, and you made trade a guy or two who goes to another organization. But if you move a couple of those pieces and you get a starting pitcher back for two or three years or whatever it is, and you help us bolster the bullpen and a bullpen and the starting rotation, you're looking at a whole different team last year.
00:25:16
Speaker 1: So it seems like he's saying the messiting on Fiano's baby, I think that crew, Yeah that crew, while also at the same time saying that you should have gotten somebody that didn't exist on the market. Yeah, you want he wanted the starting pitchers, wanted Sandy or Joe Ryan, and those guys weren't moved. Yeah, he wanted good pictures with two or three years of control. And also, like again Revision's history, you couldn't have traded Brett Bay the deadline last year. He was one of the best players on your team. He feels crazy evening now. And maybe they wanted to trade Vieno's but Vientos is playing so poorly. I don't know what they could have gotten for him. The only big Fianta's rumor was the hymn for Louise Robert, and it was like that would That's not exactly what talking about either. He's not talking about center feel. He was talk about starting pitching. Yeah, and you know, like just like he wanted these starting pitchers that didn't exist on the trade market, being these multiple year frontline starters. I want to be six foot five and play shortstop for the New York Mets. It will be nice. I also be talking about not holding out too many of these prospects for sure. Yes, they also did trade a lot of them in the last year. Yeah, it's they are, and a lot of the ones that they traded, it's like it was kind of good move, Like Blade did well and Drew Gilbert don't seem to be particularly impactful players at all right now. No, he's his bias has gotten kind of stuck with the Cardinals. Jose Bunto had the major injury and wasn't particularly good. Yeah, it just feels like a lot of the trades, again, process wise, weren't too bad. Luisan helocunya can't stinks. Yeah. So process wise, again, a lot of those trades actually did work out philosophically, like shops.
00:26:35
Speaker 2: Wanted, I would have went to the playoffs and made some noise. So from that standpoint, there was tons of mistakes made that didn't pan out. Sure, it's like, okay, are you are you building a winner? And every year if you got a chance, you got to go, especially in New York. Maybe you talked about the White Sox and they're having there a year or two early on the winning you don't fall in last, but work in the big cities, you go for it, especially with an owner who is willing to spend money. You is this a teardown? Is this a rebuild? Like are we looking to the future? Yeah? The moves that were made this off you get rid of your core. Okay, this is another big red flag. So me, who's the core? Yeah? And I talked about this is offseason when he made these moves, I go, this is not the way I would know about it. Right, Because of all the winning teams and players and organizations that have been you always have a core, right, you have two or three really good starting pitchers, like a one in a two and then you have you know, a couple of threes and fours whatever it does, and then you have a core three or four players. And they had that, they had all of this right, maybe lack.
00:27:44
Speaker 1: Yeah, he said, all these good baseball teams, you know, they have a core of one or two really good study pitchers. And then at three and a four he just did, good baseball teams have rotations. Yeah, like he just whatever the way he's describing the makeup of a good team. Also, why is he not take any player's names right now? It's driving me insane that like shout out Chris Hamblin. He's trying to get answers out of shops. He is talking in fucking circles. It's driving me insane. Which, if this is any of the way like he coached, I can imagine why the Mets hitters looked so fucking confused at times last year. We're getting to a crazy point about coaching soon. This is we're not far from where I cut myself off yesterday. And he says something that didn't make out of social media. It is jarring. Okay, so should shud press player? Should we talk a little bit more about the cores A. You're gonna keep going now, press.
00:28:27
Speaker 2: Playing and starting rotation where we needed some some big dogs to come in. But that's where you trade some of the young prospects to bring those guys in, right and so did Yeah, yeah, they trade you know, they get rid of Alonso, which hurt Nemo and trade them. McNeil. You let Diaz kind of walk and go to the Dodgers. You get out bid by the Dodgers. You know, this whole off season was a disaster, so you could see this this was coming. Yeah, because you can't one You can't just spend money and buy a winning team.
00:29:00
Speaker 1: Did you guys just hear what he said? And have you heard what he said before? Okay, offseason in retrospect disaster, we know it. Peter A, Lonzo being on this team and brand Nemo would be positive. So there's no doubt about it. We would love to have them instead of some of the guys that we have right now. We don't. Mets are still not a playoff team with those guys because they weren't a playoff team with those guys last year. Jeff McNeal is about to be defaed by the Athletics. He is having one of the worst seasons in baseball, Edwin Diaz hasn't pitched in months.
00:29:26
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00:30:27
Speaker 1: And then he just said, yeah, you can't just spend a lot of money and make a good baseball team. But which four guys? Yeah, he did say that you have an owner who will spend as much money as you need to build a winning team. And the advocate for getting these guys back in the mess was to spend a lot of money to do so. Yes, So it's interesting. It's interesting how it works talking out both sides of your mouth. There shefis, guy, can't.
00:30:49
Speaker 2: You have to? We've talked about everything, but there's the pieces that fit together that make the team what it should be. And it's funny because the fans will be like, well, they didn't win anything and not there's only one team that does it every year, right, and so you have twenty nine other teams that didn't get it done or whatever you want to say. But really, what you're looking for is an organization is an opportunity to go to the playoffs every single year, right, Because but.
00:31:13
Speaker 1: David Start didn't acomplish anything in Milwaukee. No, he did not accomplish anything Milwaukee. But all you want to do is make the playoffs every year, and that's how you know you're a good organization. Cold Post movie is creat Did he know what he was gonna say before he got into this or he was like he called up Chris Hamblin said, come to the garage. I got a couple of mics I got, I got golf clubs in the back. Yeah, we're gonna talk. We're gonna talk. You're gonna ask me questions. I won't answer them, and I will completely contradict myself within minutes. Somehow, we're only a third of the way through this podcast. By the way, Oh, I thought we were way longer. Eleven minutes. I thought this twenty nine is for SIS thirty nine, thirty nine a crap shoot.
00:31:48
Speaker 2: And it happened like you know, like I really felt last year, if we got in anything could have happened, we would have made a pretty good run. But you kind of tear that down right, and you talk about clubhouse culture and you talk about the people like That's what's upsetting to me, is like even when you fire the whole coaching staff, right and you let go quality players that have been there, done that before, that know what it's like to walk the fire that help you know these players navigate you know, the Since twenty two to twenty five, it's not an easy walk in New York. The right personalities to help these players kind of navigate the season, and you just kind of move on from the Core. And one it's like, you know, the fans are upset, they're losing their their favorite players, their jerseys. You maybe make one or two move, but you don't got the whole thing.
00:32:39
Speaker 1: Most fair point he's had, that's probably the biggest oversight from David Stearns was that too much change, too much change all at once. I think we all are in agreement with that. It is also funny though, again mentioning make trying to make the playoffs every single year that core historically did not make the playoffs and back to back years. Yeah, Mets historically an organization, have almost ever made the playoffs and back to back years. Yeah, It's like, it's crazy, how fews this actually happened for a team that's been around as long as them, loved the Core when it existed, it did not accomplish anything, especially in Eric Schabz his eyes.
00:33:07
Speaker 2: And then expect to go sign some free agents and whatever your processes of you know how you're evaluating and acquiring pieces to build a team, run prevention to me, has been the biggest piece of garbage that have that has come out of his mouth. And first of all, we've talked about it's called pitching and defense, right.
00:33:28
Speaker 1: Right, So then he's just mad about the semantics. Yes, yes, he gets it.
00:33:33
Speaker 2: He gets into that, let's not insult everybody with your big words, and you know, we're just gonna and we know what you mean, pitching and defense. So run prevention became this big thing, and you know, and and that's great, Like I I firmly believe to combat how good pitching has become is yeah, you need pitching and defense, and you need guys that make high contact, but you still need guys that that can drive the ball to the park and be productive and those Lindor was there. You had signed Sodo and this is where I want to go to run prevention. And I love Sodo. I think he's a top three hitter, Hall of Fame guy, already one World Series, great offensive sign. I don't know how that fits into run prevention because and this is not me knocking him, this is industry numbers telling you that he's a well below average outfield. Clearly you can watch, you know, So how do we factor that into run prevention. And if that is the case, right, if defense is a big deal for you, you know, and he's a below average outfielder, how do you not have the backbone to substitute him late in the games for defense, right, because it happens with every other player.
00:34:43
Speaker 1: You can't take one Solo out of the game for defense, dude. I mean, if you're up, even if the chance of it's again the ball goes over the fence and the game becomes tied, you can't take him off the field. And I else just want to say, it's kind of amazing, but Solo is a zero AA this year. I was told he's a horrendous outfielder. I think again, when you watch him like the whole time, he's by no means good out there, No, no, no, he's he's been adequate this year, which again we'll take especially when you're paying guy that much money, you probably just want that value. And similarly, you just called him Ted Williams and then said, how do you not have the bad take field because you shouldn't ever take to wat So off the field. Doesn't matter Ted Williams. You're gonna take Ted Williams off the field. Eric Schoff has just compared him to Ted Williams and then said, well that David Stearns doesn't have the backbone to take him off the field. So he's claiming that David Stearns is making the decisions in game two. Now we're a getting some of that next. But remember tedl Onan's accomplish anything didn't win the World Series. Oh shit, that's a really good point le World series. Telons Din accomplish anything has won a World Series, accomplished a lot.
00:35:45
Speaker 2: But are you afraid of, you know, hurting his feelings? You know, because if you go all in on something, go all in right, put your best defensive team. If that's your philosophy, can have think I think that's overplayed where they make a defensive substitution late. But if that's the way you're going, let's let's do it and make your defense better. How much of this is hubrious an ego with Sterns thinking that, you know what, when I came in, we made it to the NLCS, but that wasn't my my squad, that wasn't my deal. Those were guys that were here before me. I have my fingerprints on that. For me to be successful. I need to break this thing all the way down. Why would he ever think get rid of everybody and just reinsert my people and it's going to be a two or three year process.
00:36:30
Speaker 1: Sorry to interrupt, like as much as we are, but it is crazy, like to just like Chris Hamblin again, I'm not taking shots at this guy, do a great job. But he's like, is it Sterns's ego where he's now putting in words of like basically telling people this is what David Sterns is thinking. He's like, I don't want to win with someone else's guys. We have no history of that. There's also some oddrovision's history about that twenty twenty four Mets team where like I mean, Harrison Bata came in a one win player. He was a one year deal for Stern. J D Martinez, massive point of leadership, great moments with the bat. Not super consistent season, but he had a good season. Tyrone Taylor, Jose Glacis combined for five war That's crazy. Think to look back and think about that for a second. The two of the guys who came in on one year deals, Jesse Winker as a trade deadline piece, was a huge piece in that run. Luis I'm just gonna say Luis Torenz first changed the season when Mets made a weird trade for him in early June, late May. Sevrino and me and I were carrying that team like it was a lot of start Remember Regarrett, Yeah, Garrett was awesome. It was a lot of his turns, his fingerprints on that team, of course, he I mean a lot of it was from the team before. The Corps was very good that year, between Alonzo Lindor, Nemo Viento's everything. Guys were in the organization for a while. But to say that Davidstats had no impact on that run is ludicrous. That's ludicrous. And I think it's also crazy to be like David Surtin's like, oh, I don't want to win with those guys, Like would he why would he care how they win? Well, this is why Hambling's a good host, because right now he's thrown, He's throwing up the soft tossed south. So this is what he is telling Shabaz go be crazy.
00:38:05
Speaker 2: I think some of that is just like I'm smarter than everybody else. This will work and it's gonna suck, but I need people that are bought in to do it. That's and that's the biggest fault of educated people is they do think they're smarter than you.
00:38:15
Speaker 1: Yeah, I remember that line. The biggest fault of educated people is they think they're smarter than you. I didn't know education was a fault by the way, I didn't know being educated was now a negative. That's insane. Take away the David sertains, that's an insane conversation to have. The anti intellectualism is running rampant right now, is horrific. And this is like, I'm excited, and.
00:38:36
Speaker 2: There has to be especially in this game. You know, it's built around failure. You have to have a little bit of humility there. There's there's nothing wrong with being confident in what you do. But when you do walk into that room and you kind of are talking to people down, you know, about educating them, and just the way somebody talks to you, you can kind of feel it. Everybody said those experiences, the one yesterday was insane. Yeah, it was insane. He uses a word to one of these reporters. You people are just like what in the hell right, Like, okay, thanks pal, appreciate that.
00:39:12
Speaker 1: We're critiquing now the language that he uses. I don't know. I didn't think that press conference on Friday from starts of that bad. He could have shown more humility, but like I didn't think he was like trying to pretend like he seemed like kind of solemn whether he was telling the truth or I seemed upset and he seemed like honest. I also think that like everyone wants David Sturtns to be like, I've done a terrible job. He said at the top, Yeah said at the top, so that this is not a successful season. I think people want the exact words. Again, we're having a lot of semantics stocks. It feels like on this EC three podcast that they don't like the they literally just mentioned semantics. Were like, what does that word even mean? I My brain is not pick enough to understand this language. You're an asshole. Like we're getting to another story again. Didn't make out the social media very soon? Is right when I cut it off that I'm excited, And.
00:39:57
Speaker 2: For me, it's like, don't don't bullshit fan with your philosophies and you know how you phrase things. Just just give a city wins. The city doesn't care about your philosophies and your analytics and your try just deliver a winning product on the field, right, don't sell them Carl salesman pitch and you know, filled with big words and all this stuff like just build a winner. Be quiet about what you're doing behind doors between you and your team, and you need to reevaluate what you guys are doing behind closed doors. Whoever is advising him, and maybe nobody is. Maybe this is a solo cowboy just riding on his horse president. You know, yeah, there's a part of his ego, his his brain telling himself that he's smarter than everybody else. This is how the direction I'm going to go. And you're reinventing the wheel and that that to me, that's a baseball issue is we're reinventing the wheel of how to play this game.
00:40:52
Speaker 1: It's just so reinventing the wheel of how to play. Because David certain said run prevention was something that he was interested in, Eric Schabas said, actually, the truth of run prevention is pitching and defense, and that's how baseball's always been played. So just because he used a different word to say pitching in defense with Eric schaba is decoded as run prevention. That's that's changing the way the game has been played. This is the jock first nerd in security. Yes, this is the is Mega.
00:41:18
Speaker 2: It's the same game. It's the same game like it. Don't get too smart, don't ever get too smart. What it is is an echo chambers smart. He talked about people that aren't good with conflicts, right, your situation when with your phone call for people that haven't heard this before, You've talked about it on the podcast. But when you got let go, and this is I want to get this story and then I want to get into what was actually going on in the clubhouse and with the staff. But tell the story about when you got let go by Stearns and how weird in just like awkward it was. Yeah, so I'm gonna I'm actually I'm going to build up to that first. Okay, cool, let me let me take this back to the very beginning. Yeah, so when he was high beginning, Carlos decides he wants me on staff. He wants me to be a hitting coach. Great, well, whatever, this is me after becoming bench coach, right which I had aspirations of managing bench coach, where was where I really wanted to be your staff. Whatever you need to do, let's go.
00:42:12
Speaker 1: What happened to you?
00:42:13
Speaker 2: So Stearns calls me and we're talking about my salary and as a bench coach, I had a certain salary and he goes, well, he goes, I'm gonna have to have you take a pay cut this year because you're and I'm going to my to me, that's the first one. And we're not talking about like we're talking about thirty forty thousand. Right for me, it's not the money for me, it's it's the message you're sending, right you You you just came off of a fifty million dollars deal, right, the Mets aren't struggling for money, and you're gonna ask me to take a pay cut. How about just say, hey, we're going to keep your salary the same, we're happier on staff. Let's go right a handle piece, I.
00:42:50
Speaker 1: Mean dog move. That's a dog move by sterians. Okay, Like again he was that he was kind of it seems like he might have been pushing him to quit. It seemed like he was like, how can I force her Shoppas to not actually be on this staff. We're gonna demote you to hitting coach. We're also going to hire another hitting coach and I'm gonna pay you less money, and Eric Shobba take money after your podcast. Also, if he felt this fucking wrong about it, why did he accept he didn't have to work for the team. It seems like he had no interest in being here besides working with Carlos Mendoza. I mean, like you said, the money wasn't an issue. The money wasn't the issue. The hymn evoking Stearns is full salary over five years. Like that's that's crazy if that has any impact on how much Eric Schaba should getting paid. Also, he did admit he got demoted from bench coach to hitting coach, but expected to be paid the same Yes, in a lesser job.
00:43:35
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that was red flag number one.
00:43:41
Speaker 1: One number two.
00:43:42
Speaker 2: During the next season, we I had players coming up from Triple A telling me is the one that the hitting coach was telling players that the only way they can get to the big leagues is to pull the ball in the air and try to hit homers. Right. So okay, And the reason why this hit hard for me is because the hitting part is a reflection on me. Right, So I can't control, you know, what somebody else's thoughts, what they're telling our players. And they come up and I'm like, no, I don't want that.
00:44:12
Speaker 1: I want the broken I fucking knew it. I fucking knew this guy was going against the way that this team should.
00:44:18
Speaker 2: Get more hits way for the game winning hit. I don't need three run homers and guys, I want the broken bat hit to the opposite way for the game winning hit. I don't need three run homers and guys trying to hit homers where, you know, offensively, and we look at the game offensively, it's probably at as lowest and there's reasons for that. Sure. Philosophies are a big part of that. And so I went and I sent an email to the whole minor league staff. I didn't address that coach specifically, and I just said, hey, I'm hearing from players that this is what we're teaching, and I said, I adamantly disagree with this. I think we're doing a disjustice to the organization.
00:44:53
Speaker 1: And the players justice.
00:44:54
Speaker 2: And obviously David reads all the emails, so he calls me in and he tells me that, you know, what did you mean by that? And I went and I told him, I said, I I don't agree in that philosophy. I want guys to just be good hitters and the power will come. Yeah, you talk to any great player. None of them talk about hitting home runs. None of them talking about pulling the ball right. It's stay up the middle, get a good pitch to hit, you know, have a consistent path to the ball. And I said I disagree with this. He goes, well, I don't, And I go, Okay, that's fine. You can have your opinion. But I'm telling you every great hitter Hall of Fame, you go ask them, had any of them had that philosophy? And this is again we're recreating that we're getting too smart, right, No.
00:45:39
Speaker 1: This is the insecurity. This is the jock person there, the security against security thing. And it does again. Now when you see all the step you're like, oh, the Mets actually were trying to freeze Eric Shavas out of this organization. He wasn't involved in organization hitting philosophy discussions. He wasn't. They disrespected him by they disrespected by Dockney's paying Doty's role. The second David Sermons was hired, they were like, get out of it. Here, dude, and this philosophical things going on that he's not aware of. And Eric Schavez takes it upon himself send an email to the whole organization. I don't like this. I don't like this. Stop doing it. Credit David Starts for calling him in being like, let's have a conversation about that. And he was like, he was like why, And Eric Schavias is like, again anecdotal evidence, not using anything to prove his point. No good no good hitters ever said this kind of talk. Talk to any Hall of Famer. Yeah, which, by the way, I think Ted Williams was a huge proponent of pulling the baseball in the air. I think that was like a big part of his game.
00:46:28
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:46:28
Speaker 1: Yeah, talks about a lot. He did call wansto Ted Williams. Yes. Also, that was good.
00:46:33
Speaker 2: That was good.
00:46:33
Speaker 1: It didn't make on social media.
00:46:34
Speaker 2: Was great.
00:46:35
Speaker 1: That should be all over it. That's a here's one thing I will take from this. There to be negative towards David Searts for a second, both sides here. That's toxic what he's been doing to Eric Schavis for sure.
00:46:45
Speaker 2: For sure.
00:46:46
Speaker 1: It seemed like they were like, what can we do to get rid of this guy without it. And again this comes back to that well Sam a point made yesterday. I must want to see him pulse. Theyn't want to keep looking like as much turno as to quit. Maybe they wanted Mendoza to quit. I mean the language was part ways, wasn't fired, That's true. It's like I don't again if number one critique of David Stearns this person the person stuff might not come very naturally to him. Yeah, it's a nice way I can say that, but it's too smart what Eric schabb is going about. This is very funny. Yeah, it is man so sour grapes. This is also super fucking funny how David Surtns handled Eric Shavas now because Eric Schabas is an asshole, yes, seems and again seems like he didn't want him in that role. Nopee, there's your camera. There's the camera, right, so put it back.
00:47:27
Speaker 2: I'll come back. Course, most of the balls that are pull our home runs are hit hard on the pool site, of course, but that's not the message you're preaching, right, There's there's context of how to get to that, and we want guys to hit the ball hard in Homer's not by telling him to do it right, and there's I want to get there, but I don't do it that way. And even for me as a hitter, when I try to hit homers, it's either a swinging, a mess or a pop up.
00:47:48
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's you, Eric Shavz, that is you. That is your problem. Why are you using your anecdotal evidence to cover everybody? He admits that David Stern's process for hitting is exactly correct, and then at the exact same time says I couldn't do it though, so I would never teach it. Also, we're at the same time a full scale organizational approach for every single hit. They're probably not the best way to fellow play, of course not We did talk about it yesterday in the podcast, how the Mets do need to have A and B swings. There needs to be an adjustment when you have two strikes, you need to play the scoreboard a little bit more. That's totally true. This also might have been a flipping comment from the minor league coach, yes, like being like, oh, you guys want to get to the pros, let's let's pust fly balls, get the ball over the fence. That could just be like a ry rock kind of.
00:48:31
Speaker 2: Thing zero pitch, which which I hardly ever swung at. You try to what are you a three zero pitch? Everybody wants to go deep and you end up popping it up and you know, you get yourself out of a at a good count. So anyway, so we disagreed on that, and I told him I'm adamantly gonna stick by my guns on this. I don't believe in this, and we kind of like part of the room and coincided with the Triple A analytical hitting guy, right, And so that was number two. Number three was when we signed One. And I love One, by the way. I want will give you the shirt off his back. I think he's one of the coolest human beings, just a really good person. But he struggled the first two months emotionally, right, and I I don't blame him, big move going from the Yankees. Maybe had a little bit of buyer's remorse. It's all gonna work out. One's going to the Hall of Fame. You know. I even tapped him to be an m VP type of player, and he's he's going on like he's hitting wise, he's unreal. He struggled in between seven years into his career. He would run from the outfield and go sit on in the batting cage on a couch and not being the dugout with the teammate. Right. And like I said, I'm not throwing one. This isn't a one issue, right, This is this is a leadership, lack of leadership, lack of accountability from the top down, not.
00:49:50
Speaker 1: About cols Medoza top down. Who who is above the players? Just real quick, it's definitely the manager, the manager. There's also a situation where he goes into more of this about one not being the dug out, going in the cage. One sucked at the beginning of last year. Yeah, I could see maybe one him not being super comfortable yet, but I think a more likely reason that one Soda would have been so strict with his cage work was trying to get a swing on track.
00:50:14
Speaker 2: Yes, poor he was, And we had an assistant GM who would sit there with him. The assistance team would sit there with him and kind of and you know, tap him on the shoulder without saying, hey, dude, how about getting in the dugout with your teammates? Right? And so I brought this up to Scerns and I said, this is a huge problem because younger players, who we have younger players on the team, they're seeing this and you your guys are allowing this. And he goes, well, those players need to learn that they're not Won Soda. That was the third red flag, and I knew, okay, this is this is type of leader.
00:50:57
Speaker 1: So, like, I can understand where is coming from that, Like, no players should receive special treatment over others in a perfect world. That's how you want to exist. Wan Soda is gonna get special treatment. Everybody in the organization knows Wan So it's gonna get special treatment. He's gotten special treatment already, he got in his contract. And again it's this does kind of feel like throwing one under the bus and Sterns not Mendoza, which I think all of them would have been culpable in situation like this, but also at the same time, I would kind of like more specifics if one was one sitting on a couch and is twiddling his thumbs on his phone. Yeah yeah, And again he this makes Watso look pretty bad him saying this way after the fact. Wants so it was very settled in and now is a great leader. Yeah, seems to be a great leader. Now. I also think at the same time too, this is a shot at Francisco. Lindor feels like if he's talking about leadership and that there was a lack of one, and again, how can there be a lack of leadership and no mention about the manager being part of this vacuum where there was no leadership.
00:51:52
Speaker 2: He was a good guy though, from a GM all the way down, because it trickles down right and right then I knew, okay, we had one recovered, had a great year forty something homers, one hundred whateverle ye. And I watched him this year. He looks like a complete individual. He looks like he's getting along with his teammates. You know, obviously they're not having a great year, but you.
00:52:15
Speaker 1: Know, I believe.
00:52:18
Speaker 2: Let me go back to further about being accountable and about standing up and having a backbone. I remember in Oakland there was a double play. I was on first and a double play ball routine, and I go to second, I veer off and I'm running back into the dugout and I'm I'm getting towards It's a long walk in Oakland, and I see Billy with Lilly Bean walking down and he goes, come here. This is during the game. He takes me upstairs, he goes, what the fuck are you doing? Like, what are you talking about? He's like, why didn't you go hard? In a second, I go, I don't know, I just didn't, you know, didn't want to, you know, And he goes, you know what, Derek Jeter runs hard every single play, every play? Why can't you? And I was like, this is crazy, right, So I go back and I'm like, you know, of course, on my butt's crazy game.
00:53:09
Speaker 1: That's insane. That's fucking call out one of your players, one of your best players, in the middle of a baseball game, as the GM. That's absolutely nuts to say you didn't go hard into second base Billy being any World Series for him real quick. No. Also, I mean again, I don't believe. I don't disbelieve what he just said wasn't a huge hallmark of Billy Bean not watching the games. I thought that was like the whole thing of Moneyball. Yeah again, and Moneyball, we know left a lot of shit out, so probably.
00:53:32
Speaker 2: You know whatever, it's a routine double play. And I'm sitting in the game and I'm I'm trying to process this, and so I go back up after the game and he goes, let me show you some video, and he has video ready to go of Derek a routine little chopper back to the pic and it just hit home with me, right, and I'm like that that's backbone. That's leadership. You don't veer away from your top guys. You you attack them, you chal them, you build them up, whatever it is you need to do. Because that's the example that's gonna that's clubhouse culture. That's chemistry. Is when your best players do it right. And that's why Derek is so revered because he played every single day. He played hard, he played the game right, He was a winner, He got hits when it mattered, and home with me, you know what I mean, it's like and that was.
00:54:24
Speaker 1: What that worked out for shavas he win anything. We also say he's upset about he's saying how cool was that Billy Bean Show's backbone when the last story he gave was David Searns very much showing his backbone and telling Eric Schavs, No, this is your organization's hitting philosophy. It's just that it just didn't like that. Yeah, he didn't. He disagreed with the with the philosophy, so we didn't like the backbone. Yeah, if you're going to stand up to Eric Shavas, you better agree with him. If you have staid up Eric Shavist. No analytics involved, Yeah, absolutely not. I want to hear about this pulled fly ball, even though seconds later he does say that's what the best quality of contact is. No numbers involved, no numbers, just vibes.
00:54:57
Speaker 2: Needed at that moment, right, And he was kind of allowed to kind of do his thing. And you know, we had players kind of take that same thing during the year, and that was kind of the dysfunction that was going on, part of the problem. And as as as leaders, you have to be you can't be afraid of hitting situations on even though you might offend your best player. You know, your best pitcher. You gotta challenge him a little bit.
00:55:23
Speaker 1: Have a comment. He felt like there was a lack of leadership, of challenging. Right, let's take away. Let's just say there is no leaders right, you were on that coaching staff and you just said this. Sounds like his balls got cut off many times, I know. But like so, he had a problem with the lack of leadership, but Eric Schavaz being the leader, he had decided to also then just do nothing. And again, for some reason, this should be where the manager has step up and be the liaison, be the connector. Yeah, and maybe he Mendoza should have taken those things up with starts if they felt it was that big of an issue. I also, like, I do get it. Theoretically you want one sort of to run out every single ball. You want this, you want everyone to play hard, and it does start from the top down for the players. If you see wan So too do it. The younger players might think that definitely, But also at the same time, he's getting paideven hundred and fifty million dollars. I don't give a fuck. And also the same thing where it's like, yeah, if he was like running out of the dugout and not being in there like the whole free Yeah, that's definitely weird.
00:56:15
Speaker 2: And players that are good at some point in their lives have always been met with challenges that they've overcome, right, and that's what makes them better. Yeah, that's that's awesome because you talk about the Billy bean stuff leadership by example, and then you instantly had respect for what he did in one situation with you because he had the video dialed up. He's like, no, no, I'm not just gonna fastise you or come at you there. I'm like, hey see, I want to show you what I'm talking about.
00:56:39
Speaker 1: Right, It's true.
00:56:40
Speaker 2: You're instantly like, oh, okay, he's trying to make me better. He's trying to teach me lesson that will make me a better player. Yeah. And if he's not doing that, running hard makes a better player, so to being sitting in the cage with an assistant GM is just like rules for me and not for everybody else. Yeah, And that is a cascade of that happened as people see that it's not good. That's exactly right. So confrontation like lack of wanting to have those confrontations. That's a perfect example. This is it And you've called him out. But so at the end, just like everything that you.
00:57:16
Speaker 1: Talk calling out forgot about that, yeah, oh.
00:57:20
Speaker 2: Yeah, when when you get let go, it's the perfect back to the encapsulation of all the stuff that you just talked about. Yeah, in which I, like I said, I knew this was coming, I knew changes were coming. I didn't know the whole staff was going to be let go yeah, and he calls me, Hey, David, what's up? And we talked about this, I think before too, and he goes, you know, I'm not having a good day. Okay, what's what's crazy? He goes, well, we're going to go in a different direction, and I go okay, and he goes and he hangs up the phone right and I'm thinking to myself like, man, like.
00:57:53
Speaker 1: This did that happen? That's so funny. Not having a good day. Let's take go see you it's crazy is just low key kind of hilarious. At times. I might become a listener to the EC three. It just seems like we're gonna hear something that you'd never expect every single time. This might be the best advocate for the EC three podcast. I have no fucking clue what he's gonna say next.
00:58:17
Speaker 2: I can't literally like there's no you know, thanks for what you did, Thanks for the hard work, like they put in the hours, Like as a coach, I'd never been so for yourself as coaching, and just kind of the the lack of personal connect gratitude, appreciation for me, appreciate you for doing your job. Well, We're just gonna move on and it is what it is. Yeah, you know that was the four strike for me. You know, like, this isn't this isn't the right guy. I don't know where it came from. I don't know silt him up. You know. I heard a reporter ask him yesterday, have you thought about stepping down? And he gave a smirk and he's like no, and it's like, well, he stepped down before he stepped down in Milwaukee. I don't know if people remember this or or knew this. I have heard of why. I'm not going to get into it.
00:59:14
Speaker 1: That gun he is. Get into it, Eric, get into it. We're here, we're thirty this into the EC three podcast. Please get into it. Why you heard he stepped down? So like the Brewers are very successful during his time. So I don't think that David Stearns was forced out because of this bit. It seems like Eric Schapez has a scandal that he won't tell anybody. I don't. I don't see these smirks. Other people say I don't see him either. I just don't. Maybe I don't notice them. Maybe he's two rose colored still with David Sterns. But I just don't see the smirk. Maybe just a little thicker skin than some other people. Like we're like a smirk doesn't bother me. No, And again maybe I just don't know it. Maybe that's not me missed the smirks. Yeah, maybe maybe because we like.
00:59:49
Speaker 2: Stern so it's not beneath him to step away from a tough situation. But there's too much money, sure, and he's not going anywhere, right, he should be the guy fired, but he's not going anywhere. He's protect good by the contract that he signed. I'm pretty sure Cohen Cohen after the game before they fired, Carlos came in and said, I don't know this for sure, but something's got to happen, either you go or he goes. And I'm pretty sure they talked about it the night before. They woke up and they said, okay, is this what we want to do, and they decided to do it that morning.
01:00:29
Speaker 1: Should I fire you or him? Yeah, you know what, you can let me go?
01:00:34
Speaker 2: Yeah, you're right.
01:00:34
Speaker 1: Also, I'll fall on this with Sopuku. Think about the insane mental gymnastics you have to do right now to be in Eric Schaviz's shoes and say, here's what I think happened on a situation that I truly have no idea of anything that's going on. That's what I'm saying to this point. The first twenty seven and a half minutes of the EC three podcast, it was when Eric Shavis was in the Mets organization. The last forty five seconds total, hearsay wasn't while he was sitting on his couch, probably in Phoenix. It seems like getting ready to go hit the lake was kicking, he said. I think what probably happened is that the night after the game, Cohen said, sterns, it's either you or him, and David Stern said, okay, well but a fire Carlos Mendoza. Then they went to sleep and woke up and said, all right, let's do it. Also, if you think that's the chain of events, you've got to be a top five stupid person. I mean, it was in the organization for a lot.
01:01:21
Speaker 2: But I knew this was coming, you know why credit he held on to Carlos a really, really long time. We saw what the Phillies did. It's not always the right or the wrong move. Sometimes a move just has to happen. Not gutting everything that's been the biggest mistakes that you don't get it. You keep, you do inventory check, you you keep the personnel that you that you know you need as your core, and you make small moves to better your team. You don't have to mortgage the future, but you make you make smart moves. And with the young players, and I see a lot of teams do this like when they're at their peak. You have to One you have to trust your evaluating process, right, And two you have to be okay with making a mistake. Right. If you trade a Mark Vantos and a bait bait Brett Batty or Alvarez and they go off and they they have great careers, you have to live with that. But also understand like that move you made to acquire the player to help you get over the hump was worth it in the long run, and sometimes you're going to get burnt by it. But being able to evaluate your own players and then committing to them, yeah right, you can't go run prevention. I'm not even gonna say that anymore. Pitching in defense and then ask players to move around defensively, you can't.
01:02:40
Speaker 1: Well, he's right there, that's totally right. The thing I'm worried about is like, why does he keep referencing trading the guys who are actually on the major league roster to prove the major league roster rather than advocating for trading minor leaguers. And then also at the same because he definitely doesn't know anything that's going on the minor leagues, but also at the same time remembers prospects or suspects shout out Buck Showalter cut from Batory with him. But like that is probably actually the biggest difference. Where these guys who came up had successful major league careers on major league coaching staffs, those young players were unestablished. Even though they're not consider the prospects technically, especially not by us the rankings or anything like that, they still consider them very not proven commodities. But those are guys that are very much more rarely traded. They also think it's super crazy to say how you need to be able to live with the mistake of trading of Viento's Baty Alvarez any of these young guys. I agree, you do have to be able to live with that mistake. Then he says you also need to commit to those guys, which you can't do both you can't trade them and you can't commit them at the same time. And then if you do want them to commit, I think there's no bigger commitment than forcing Brett Batty to play other positions. We like you so much that we're gonna put you in weird situations, and I think that was a massive mistake. But yeah, it's exactly what he is talking about that he wants to see. So it's confusing. Well, the AC three podcast is very confounding. It's very complicated. That's why we have to focus up.
01:03:52
Speaker 2: Yeah, the rest to go to left field or right field, play the outfield, first base, Biento's DH third base, first base, Like, that's really hard.
01:04:00
Speaker 1: H is a new position? Are we fucking serious? Old God? Of all the position changes he mentioned, Mark Fiento's learning how to be a DH. The only thing that he's ever been able to do even slightly above average was hit And that's the hardest position change he's had to make.
01:04:15
Speaker 2: At this level. And there's like a Kiki Hernandez, right, you could put him anywhere and he's going to do well. Those guys are really hard to come by, and it's a hard thing to do. And then you're trying to figure hisself out as a young guy. You're trying to hit, you're trying to survive, and it was whatever the philosophy was, it's all been wrong and every decision he's made has been wrong unfortunately. All Right, So I have two things that we could kind of put a cap on this emergency pod. What are you hearing from inside the staff right? Like, I'm interested, Like you mentioned a second ago, Carlos kind of had to have an idea this was possible. You still talk to people, don't have to call anybody out in like in general, like, what's the mo what was the reaction? What's the vibe that you think this team carries. Yeah, I've checked in with guys that I'm close with there. You know, from the beginning, you know, things have not been great. And I said, how you guys doing you guys keeping your head up? Yeah? Yeah, we're working hard, We're you know, things were always good and positive. I think standpoint you always have to have that. You got to show up every day with a smile, ready to go, regardless of where you've come from. I texted Carlos yesterday and I said, keep your head up high. You're you're well respected. I respected you. You know, he's just he was set up to fail. Like he took. He took a team that Billy Eppler had built to the A L c S that was on Billy. And that's when right and l sorry sorry and.
01:05:45
Speaker 1: Else doesn't even know what league he played it. That's why we need handling again.
01:05:53
Speaker 2: So he has the pedigree to to manage and and be really good at this game. And he's gonna land on his feet. It's just I know, it's hard because emotionally you put everything like he los. I know he's losing sleep, like you're constantly not thinking about what moves and you know, I know people are like, you know, he's got to do this. And when you lose, you can kind of nippick anything you want, you know, like if you're fiery, you can go. He's too fiery. Yeah, not firey, go you need more fire, you know you can. You're just losing and it's not working. Whatever's happening, it's not working.
01:06:24
Speaker 1: Also, I want to refute one thing too, that that the twenty twenty four team was built by Billyepler. I'm gonna go through the starting line for that team, and I want to try and remember where they came from. Sure, yeah, Francisco Alvarez not Billy, Billyeppler, Pee Alonzo not Billyeppler, Jeff McNeil not Billyeppler, Francisco Lindor not Billyeppler, Mark Fianzos not Billy Eppler, Brenda Neimo not Billy Eppler, Harrison Baylor, Billy Eppler, Novi Serns, David Serns, Starling, Marte Billy Eeppler. There you go, and then let's go rotation. Luis Savarino not Billyeppler, Sean and Aya not Billy Eppler, Jose Quintana Billy Eppler, and don't forget he had a tumor that broke his bones and his trips. Edwin Ds not Billy Eppler. That's those are the big pieces there, so very not Billy Eppler and lcs almost actually exclusively no Billy Eppler players, Brooks Raley, Yes, seven innings, but of all the guys to give credit to for that team, that's the one is really difficult too. It's creazy like Sandy and Brody get more credited for four team in retrospect, much more had his hands much more on the miners guys that we're seeing now, definitely, and some of the ones that don't work out there. I mean yeah, No, his baby was a draft before Alphares, was before Dances, before Billy drafted a j Ewing. He drafted McLean, He drafted Nolan McLain, Yes, and Jonah Tong and Jonah Tong.
01:07:45
Speaker 2: But the real corporate is the guy, the puppet master right running the whole show, doing it his way, bringing in the players that he thinks, you know, is a is a contender, puppet mass I have failed, right, don't go as an organization, he said the other day. We're looking for a coaches to get the maximum out of every player. And first of all, let me take this back. As a player that played for a long time, not one time that I ever blame anything negative on any coach. Was never a hitting coach. When I was wasn't a hitting coach. I was in a fielding slump. It was me, you got you gotta be take ownership. You got to be a pro and understand like these guys are men, they're responsible for their own career. I was responsible for my own career. Account who I listened to That was up to me and that was part of, you know, my decision making of my performance. But my performance was me right. And I had coaches helped me along the way and and all this, but not one coach that I ever go, Man, this guy screwed me up. And if it screwed you up, that's your fault. If you're listening to people that aren't helping you, that's your fault. You need to reevaluate your team. And so yeah, it's just, uh, I don't know if the coaching staff. They everybody works hard like it's it's a it's everybody wants to blame you, but when they do well, they don't want to give you any credit, which you really like you you're as a coach, you're not there. You're not there for credit or blame. You just help.
01:09:13
Speaker 1: Wasn't there in person a lot? Yeah, he was in Arizona, Arizona to show up and you know.
01:09:17
Speaker 2: You flip balls and you you have you try to have conversations with them to you know, mentally kind of get them over the hump of a slump.
01:09:23
Speaker 1: But what was he doing last year? It doesn't seem like he even he was doing. They really pushed him out. Yeah, they from the beginning. Again, if I was in Rik Shova's shoes, probably would find ways to do less, Yes, And if I was sending emails to everyone in the organization and challenging the president the philosophy. What's funny is Eric Schoffs actually has a leg to stand on about the culture of David Stearns with the people beneath him. I think that is totally a fair conversation because it doesn't seem under Eric Schoff's experience that he was treated particularly fairly by David Stearns. Seems actually very unfair. Yeah, So, like I think that's where they should have gone. But to say he's talking about all the stuff that makes all his points feel invalid, which is where it's the jock versus nerd argument always, And this funny is the thing of that's kind of lost in a lot of the public discussions about David Sears. I feel like a lot of the things be most critical about him are the things that no one talks about, which is again, poor person in person relationships, trying to thread the needle too much and not I mean sometimes maybe having a little bit too much confidence in hubris and some of the moves that they may not back not backfilling and having plan bs available where it's more of the top line stuff that he gets discredited for, and it's like a lot of stuff is still kind of like, I don't know, Horry Plum getting injured, your propa thoughts could chance that happen again? Robert getting injured the Popashett think is the bad one.
01:10:38
Speaker 2: But yes, for the most part, you take accountability for your performance on the field. Is there any I always like this messages of positivity. I've enjoyed the passion of the Mets fans over the past forty eight hours. Yeah, like the signs at the games, the chants and everything. Is there any message that you could would want to send to the fans as like because this okay, Everything's gonna be all right? Like, what message do you have for Mets fans that I know have been actively engaging with you on social media? Yeah? No, I had first hand experience last year and handle and dealt with them. Passion, just passion, just you know, continue to show up like you have the right owner in place. You can't have a better owner. City Field is a gem, you know, Queen's in the next five to ten years, that little area is going to be fantastic. It's gonna happen. I really firmly believe that. Like Cohen, you know, he doesn't get to where he's at life without you know, you know, some hurdles, and he's had some hurdles in his in his career, but he's a winner and he puts the money where his mouth is, and you know, he's got the energy and the effort for it. Fans keep up the passion, like you know, yeah, the team is probably not gonna be where you want them to be. And we all want winners. We all want to go cheer on winners. But I think you know, from the messaging from front office ownership to the fans is I think they just want accountability, you know, want Ron Washington, one of my favorite coaches of all time who probably should be managing the Sans Giants right now, and he told me, and the way Rosh talks like I don't know if you've heard, it's beautiful. I'm not going to try to imitate his voice like you told me, just say you fucked up. That's nobody can say anything. And I've always taken that to the heart when you mess up. Just you know what, Listen, the stuff that I've done since I've gotten here hasn't worked. We're going to reevaluate our process and be different and try to give you guys a winner. We failed you, period, and you know what the fans would be like, don't sell them bullshit.
01:12:49
Speaker 1: But here's the only thing that I'm going to say. Well, and it's not the only thing. I don't know how I said that, but like, oops, I went out of full screen. They did. They said that the in twenty twenty four did not work. We need to change or twenty twenty five, my bad did not work. They got rid of a lot of it too much. Are we know that we know that's the case, but that was a blanket statement by David Searns. Didn't work. We're changing it up. And when he came out for the press conference on Friday, he was like this, seasons of failure. Yeah, it's on my shoulders. Anything goes wrong with this baseball team, in baseball operations, it's on make It's pure accountability. So it is interesting how like again, people do hear what they want to hear, and we know that with our comment section. At times like and we miss and we we miss smirks. Yes, we miss smirks. We do miss smirks because we want to hear not smirks. But it is funny. He's like take accountability and say we're gonna change it. They just did this off season. It's just that the change didn't work. The change was wrong again, and probably gonna make another change next year if I had the chance, A guess, and I don't think you can particularly make that change. On June twenty ninth, part of the change was fired in your buddy, Carlos Mendoza.
01:13:51
Speaker 2: That's roight up there, up there with the smirk, Like look them in there and say, this is smirk. I've messed up. I'm disappointed. We're gonna re evaluate our process and we're going to get this thing right right. Don't feed them bullshit. Those fans are just too educated, the too to hear the bs. Just shoot them straight there, they're you know there, it's a it's a tough town. Just give them, give it to them, you know, straight, and they'll expect you for it. Anything else, Is there anything else you want to get off your chest?
01:14:20
Speaker 1: How?
01:14:20
Speaker 2: How how do we fix this? How do we move forward? Manager GM moving forward? What's the next move? Right?
01:14:27
Speaker 1: I can't wait to hear this.
01:14:28
Speaker 2: They're going to clear the house in the off season. Well you got to start with one. So who takes that job? Like like, okay, so that I mean that, that's the thing. So so I've heard, I've heard I will take that job. I've heard, uh Baltron. The kind of alarming thing for me is Beltron's there. What's Carl's doing there? He's like a special assistant, Like he's there, Like if you really wanted to move forward with Carlos, and maybe maybe Carlos didn't want the job, that's where people are like, oh, higher JD. Martinez is or hire this guy some Sometimes these guys just don't want to do it. And Carlos is there, And if you wanted to move forward with Carlos, get him the experience of the next let him build a rapport with the players and sterns and see how things work. So I'm a little surprised that it wasn't Carlos. But if you for me, like if you did a combination, are you you need a strong personality there one right, and you need if your best players want you need a strong personality right because these players, right, Dusty Baker was the right fit for Barry Bonds and Jeff Cannon, all those guys. Bo T was the right fit for you know, Francis like, you need a somebody who walks into the room and around respect and dignity.
01:15:53
Speaker 1: Now does he hear what he's saying that the next manager that the Mets hire needs to have like a little bit of confidence, a little bit of a leadership, needs to be a loud personality, needs to have leadership ability, needs to be able to take accountability. That is kind of a back way, backhanded way of also saying that Carlsmandoza was not that guy. He doesn't realize he's saying that. I don't think he does, but I think he Maybe Sam carlsz was, But then he's not there.
01:16:19
Speaker 2: You just know that they're a leader, right, and Albert poolholes or a combination with Albert, Yeah, and Beltron or Joey Korra walks into that room. Yeah, there's definitely some options from the manager side. You gotta get that right first of all, put it. Put a leader in there who's not afraid to speak his mind, that the players are going to respect they may not like always what you say, but they're gonna like that conversation I had with Billy I didn't maybe he didn't like it at the time, but I respected it and it hit home with me, and those are those are what leadership leadership.
01:16:50
Speaker 1: She's talking about gms now, not man now, he's not talking about managers now, he's talking about gms. But when his backhanded saying them and those didn't have these qualities, totally, he has no clue he's saying that he doesn't realize is that he's completely throwing Mendos under the bus with this. And I think a lot of people are watching this might not have even picked up on that because it wasn't framed in that way. But he's totally saying that the Mets didn't have this. I mean, seventy five minutes into the EC three, watch along the Mets up, guys, like, we're so really going to get into it now. Also electric for him to talk about how he respected that Billy Bean told him he was wrong, But what David Starts told him he was wrong, he was like, oh, fuck yourself. Also, if anyone got through this entire part with us, with us to this we need to we need to set special words for the YouTube comments. Oh give me a disjustified that's way too long. That's where I can get people. Then what's another one? He keeps talking with Billy beans. Canna say beans yap beans?
01:17:41
Speaker 2: Bean leaders do. But the GM side like, for me, go back and hire Billy Eppler. You had the right guy. It was an inside job. You had the right guy. He would have built you a winner. By now, I firmly believe that what happened. And if that, if you want a wild card, this is what I would. Let's go. I've talked about him before the go go open the check. Bu dude, I don't think THEO you know what he's done with Chicago and Boston. Never really met THEO person. I met him walking by whatever. But I have a ton of respect for you know, what he's built and what he's again accomplished. What it's not you know, uh, in the future, I think CEO that has a process. Right, he is a proven process, correct? Right? Correct? You've got here. Here's the fundamentals of what I believe in and what I implement and here's how my structure works. Right, here's how I do it. Yeah, and like that's what you're talking about. Do you want to go create, Go get THEO and and open the check buck and say, come build me a winner because he's done it.
01:18:48
Speaker 1: Another great idea too, I think they should dig up Yogi Bearro's body and let him manage as well. He's a proven winner one hundred.
01:18:55
Speaker 2: Two franchises that was starving for it the third one. Like I said, I don't know if that's even possible. If THEO wants to do it. I think he's pretty happy where he's at. But yeah, there's you know, staying pat and kind of running this out. You know. I don't know that that's the right decision unless they get together as a front office and go, man, we really have to change the way we're doing things because it's not working. Awesome stuff, man, Emergency Pod, Yes, we got it. You can like to subscribe if you like what you heard today on YouTube, Spotify, Apple podcasts. We put podcasts out Baseball once a week. He is shavy. I'm Chris Emergency Pod. Mets in there mess of a situation here before.
01:19:41
Speaker 1: The open invite to Chris Hamblin to ever come on the METSU podcast and Eric Svas if Eric Schappas wants to come on, I would love to have him on. There's no shot he does. He's got to bring handling with him. It's a package deal, yes, package deal. One man. I don't know. I do want to just let him loose, hambling, hambling, let him loose. That was crazy. That was uh. I mean, that was third nine minutes of kind of almost nothing there was. I mean, the ones that made to social media were big. A couple of those stories, like Eric shav Is sending the full organizational email at all, some of those stuff and then him backhanding saying bunch of badge of the bat Mendoz at the end was yeah, kind of sad, but also funny, kind of funny at the end of the day. It totally comes off with sour grapes. It comes off as I have one way I wanted to do things. He has his other way. We didn't agree, and I think he's wrong, and look, he hasn't won, so he is wrong. I'm right. And seemingly the biggest story of this whole thing was that Shavs was like a black sheep in the organization with David Stearns tried to push him out and then seemingly kind of gave him like the unplugged in controller you give your little cousin while you're playing video game like when or you put the kid on like the motorcycle at the arcade, but you don't put in the money. You're like, Wow, you're doing so good. And whether or not you more so agreed with the Mets organizational philosophy or shav is his philosophy, it probably was destructive to have two people go saying different things to different players at different times. Yes, I do think if I am going to take any negative on Sterns from this podcast, based on what we've heard from Eric Shabaz, it does seem like there is a culture issue and that is something that probably needs to be addressed better, especially even what we talked about how keeping mendos are around completely new coaches and knowing that those coaches and Mendoza definitely didn't get along very much. A lack of person to person understand and that might be the biggest critique I have, along with the fact that they're not winning baseball games. Gotta win baseball games. And now my camera won't turn on, so we gotta call all right, that's it. Thank you guys for watching. Let us know if you like to watch along. I don't know. It's like an hour and twenty minutes. It's a long one, but subscribe to events ever. I think it is our longest one ever. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google. You can follow James on social media at James Shannon. I'm draftnick Mark. Thank you all for watching, Thank you for listening. We'll catch on the next one. Shout Eric Shavis, peace out, peace out guys.
01:21:46
Speaker 3: Let's comments, and then lost the loves, and then the lo
