Tim Hildebrand (Catbite)

Danny: The time when I got high, but it is not what you're thinking. I was up on the stage taking a page out of the book. I was reading, how we would shine how I knew too. At the stage I was closed, who wouldn't be there soon. Hey everyone, welcome back to Mere Mortals. I'm Jason, and on this week's episode, Kenny, Danny, and I sat down with Tim Hildebrand, the guitarist and co-founder of the Philly ska band Catbite. We recorded this one back in February, so some of the tour talk and timeline is from earlier in the year. ⁓ if Catbite is new to you, they've toured with the Gaslight Anthem and the Bouncing Souls. They played a full set of Op Ivy covers with Laura Jane Grace from Against Me out front. Patrick Stump from Fallout Boy sang and played trumpet on their 2025 EP Doom Garden. And they played over a hundred shows last year alone. But before Tim even knew how to play guitar, he'd already made himself the manager of his friend's band, The Snails. He sold tickets at school, drove kids to shows in his mom's Durango. He took a screen printing class so that he could make their merch. But just before he turned 18, he got grounded for a couple months. Uh-oh. But a buddy handed him a $20 guitar. Chords to every snail song written on the back of a diner menu and said, if you learn these, you're in the band. And so that's what he did. He then spent nine years in that band playing traditional ska at a time when it seemed like people didn't care as much as they'd hoped. But then he started Catbite, and on the first day of pre-sales, they sold more records than the snails had sold in a decade. And this same mix of enthusiasm and stubbornness runs throughout Tim's whole story, from booking studio time before the band had a drummer. Using the pandemic shutdown to build Cat Byte's audience, winning over confused gaslight anthem crowds, and getting a full rockstar treatment when they toured Japan. All of this leads to one of the best pieces of advice I think we've heard on the show, which is start the band You Want to Be Your Favorite Band. So I'll let Tim get to it. Here's our conversation with Tim Hildebrand from CatByte, respectfully. Tim Hildebrand from CatByte, welcome to Mirror Mortals. Thanks for joining the podcast. Thank you so much for having me. My first interview this year. ⁓ Excellent. And we're already at the end of February. I mean it's almost March. Yeah, I know. It like comes in waves, like just like ska. But ⁓ first one of the year, so kicking it off in style. I can't believe you hit with that good of a ska joke. It was really good. Did you purposefully block off the first quarter of the year so that you could wait until March to get I'm like twelve, I'm like twelve years ahead. Everything I do as a plan, yeah. Yeah, cool. Yeah. Good shit. ⁓ well, how how's your life? How's everything? It's it's all right, you know. ⁓ it's it's kind of been a little weird. Like the ⁓ last year was the busiest ⁓ 2025 was the busiest year that my band Cat Bite has ever had. We had a hundred and four. shows in twenty twenty five. ⁓ wow. And we the we didn't even like start our first show of the year until maybe like April. So it was like, you know, we had like three, four months off and then it was just like go, go, go, go, go. And then yeah, we that was right up until the end of the year. And we've we've had one show since then. ⁓ so it's kind of weird. We're we're we're very intentionally taking some time off this year to like kind of regroup and kind of work on new stuff and like you know, 'cause we've just been nonstop for the past like three years and last year was by far the busiest and, you know, it's a lot. ⁓ so it's I'm in like decompression zone. So it's like a ⁓ a nice little hibernation just kinda and everyone's just kinda everyone in the band's kind of doing their own thing and then we're gonna like, you know, finish our little hibernation, then come back together and, you know, start ⁓ you know, start working on some stuff. Well deserved after that much work. And that that was international touring, right? You you guys were all over the place. Yeah, we we did two Europe tours. Both of them were like about three weeks each. And we did Mexico, which was really cool. ⁓ and then just like Canada and the States, but ⁓ a lot. Yeah. Yeah. I I I think maybe that's a a fun segue into sort of the point of our podcast, which is kinda what success looks like. along the way and and where things ⁓ you know might pivot or change. I imagine that when you first decided to start playing music, you might not have thought like, ⁓ I'm definitely working towards playing over a hundred shows a year ⁓ across the planet. What did what did that look like for you? I mean I I like when I first started like playing music, I I was I was very obsessed with the idea of like being in a band and touring all the time touring the world. but I didn't really know the you know, the levels of it. ⁓ like, you know, obviously when you're young, you're like, yeah, you get a tour bus and an airplane and you're just going non stop. And I was like totally fascinated with the idea of like 'cause also a lot of ⁓ the bands like up until like when I started touring it was kind of normal for bands to be on the road all year long. You know, they're they put out a record and they play two hundred shows a year. And so I I kind of ⁓ right off the bat, kind of like assumed that's what I was gonna do and I was kind of okay with that. And I was kind of like, you know, frustrated with like my first musical projects. Like all I wanna do was tour and I would set up these tours because I would book I would book these shows for all my bands I was in. And I'm like, why is this so hard? Like I how do the bands like, you know, play two hundred shows a year when I can't even book a a show in New York or something like that. So I kinda like learned, you know, there's a whole process of To it. And it's also like a lot of things were changing. A lot of bands were starting to be more strategic with the way that they tore. ⁓ so I I feel like I I might have come came in like a little ambitious, and then I realized that it's like you're you know, I'm not gonna actually be playing that playing that many shows. So it honestly like it felt like it, but it also didn't feel like I played 105 shows this year. It just I feel like I've been building up to the this moment my whole life and I feel like that's kind of the maximum that most bands are doing. I feel like that's kind of on the high end of a lot of bands. ⁓ like as you look at some, you know, like major successful bands and like they're doing like two tours a year or like maybe they'll do one year of like severe touring and ⁓ so it's it's kind of interesting to just like kind of see the progression of how bands are doing it, also along with the, you know, with internet and with digital stuff and social media and like things going viral and stuff like the whole music thing has kind of changed from when I was like kind of an aspiring mus little musician that wanted to be on tour all the time. I think that's pretty interesting. And I l you know, when I think about touring, I was similarly when I was young and I first started playing in bands that maybe had any reason to tour. ⁓ as soon as we started talking about it on the West Coast, it was a nightmare the idea of trying to drive five hours to the next place that you could play a show like minimum. Mm-hmm. ⁓ so if you wanted to do a two week tour and you wanted to play every night, you were driving all day every day. ⁓ and it was pretty crazy. So we were always so jealous of the East Coast. Yeah. You were like, you man, you could play like two shows a night if you wanted to. Yeah, we are we are pretty lucky in that that way. Yeah. It's yeah. It's yeah, we win. Yeah you do. Yeah. East Coast fuck you. Yeah. Yeah, fair enough. Fair enough. Respectfully. Yeah, okay. All right. I mean it's it's the best way to tell somebody to fuck up is respectfully. You don't want to hurt anybody. I mean not that not anything, but a lot of things. Yeah, yeah, not everything. There's there's some things you should never say. But yeah, it's it's a fun thing. I started doing that like a year ago and I feel like it makes me feel better. And nobody's called you a dick since. You that Tim Hildebrand's respect. He said respectfully, yeah. He yeah, he insulted my mom, but he said respectfully. So we're fine. It's all good. So how old were you when you started when you when you got like first picked up a guitar? Or did you start with guitar or were you piano lessons or how did it begin? Yeah, so I started with drums when I was like ten years old. I went to like a like a s a music summer camp and that was like my first entr I always like really wanted to play music, but my parents wouldn't like get me lessons or anything or buy me equipment. But there was like ⁓ when I was in ⁓ going into fifth fifth grade, there was like a music camp thing that was sponsored by the school and like they paid for the stuff. And it was just like drum pad drum pad like and sticks. So I just had to buy sticks. and and like I always wanted to play drums. So finally got a chance and then I started just ⁓ kind of just teaching myself Didn't I don't even know how, like I didn't have internet, my mom wouldn't get me lessons, but then I started doing like concert band and I kind of just faked it until I made it type of thing. and I did that up until I was ⁓ ninth grade. So like yeah, like about four or five years doing that. and then I didn't actually start playing guitar until I was eighteen. Okay. So I ⁓ yeah, what I what happened is like I like discovered that I wanted to be a musician or like just be in the world of touring with music when I was I think it would have been like the end of tenth grade, I just became friends with with ⁓ one of my best friends and the singer of my first band, ⁓ Todd. And he real he's the one that really got me into like the music that I like now. And he was in this cool band called The Snails, which I eventually joined. And ⁓ the band had been a r going around f since ⁓ we were in I think eighth grade. So it's it's been a you know, full they were kinda like a punk band at first. And I just wanted to be like a part of that and so I became like the un I made myself the manager. I don't know what a manager does. I I like I would drive I would like sell tickets to their shows at school and then drive people to the shows, like 'cause they were always playing at this place ⁓ called Club Nineteen in York, Pennsylvania. I grew up in Lancaster, Pennsylvania. Okay. And so it was like a thirty minute drive to there and you know, you're try I'm trying to sell tickets to this band's show thirty minutes away to a bunch of like, you know, fourteen year olds. I'm like, I'll give you a free ride if 'cause I my mom had like a Dodge Durango so I could fit like ten people in that thing. And then so I s I would like sell tickets for the band. ⁓ I took a graphic design and ⁓ screen printing class ⁓ my eleven in eleventh grade just so I could make T shirts and sell them for the band. And like I even made snail bars 'cause we we made like ⁓ I would get chocolate. I made like We had access to like cardboard and stuff, so I made like whole like candy wrapper for like snail bars and then I would buy cheap chocolate from the store and I would wrap around this and s go around the hallways just like selling I don't know. I was just like really like I didn't know how to play music, like I didn't really know how to play drum set. ⁓ and I I didn't play guitar or anything at all. I just like wanted to be in that touring band life after like, you know, going to shows and and like realizing this is what I want to do. ⁓ and then eventually I I ⁓ I got grounded right before I turned 18 for ⁓ until I turned 18. So it was about two months. And so my mom took away my phone, TV, internet. I basically just would go to school and then come home for two months straight. And about a week into that, Todd from the snails, ⁓ he gave me like a twenty dollar guitar, like just piece of shit with like spray paint and stuff on it. And he wrote down all the chords ⁓ to every song that the band had, like the like just on the back of it was a like a diner like a th this diner in in Lancaster on the back of their like menu and it's just like all the all the chords written out is like, yeah, just just take this guitar and learn how to guitar 'cause the the rhythm guitar player for that band was not gonna continue in the band after high school. So it's like, Yeah, you you have nothing to do. Learn to play guitar and then be the new guitar player for the band. So I did that. Yeah. I just like went to school, came home. Beautiful. And and like taught myself that's all I knew. I I didn't know any songs. I didn't except for snail songs. And that's how it was for like two years. Like 'cause I I didn't have internet. I didn't really know anything like teaching myself ear. I had rhythm from playing drums, but I knew nothing about like music theory. I didn't know what notes were. I didn't know the names of the chords. You know, it was just like this this is what this is how this song goes. And ⁓ yeah, that's that's my start in music. That's a very I think interesting path where for so many musicians who, you know, you start out teaching yourself or taking lessons, become a musician, get to the point of where you're playing shows, but have no idea how to manage that. And ⁓ f as, you know, young independent musicians you have to be your own manager and booking agent and everything. ⁓ so you sort of ⁓ you know. Flipped that and and got to be manager first. Have you ⁓ ha have you had a thanks mom moment for ⁓ getting grounded for a couple months to be able to get into this? Or are you still bitter? I mean, I never told her thank you for it. I also it sucks 'cause like I was supposed to go ⁓ I was in choir. ⁓ I only did it because ⁓ every two years the choir kids go on a really cool trip. And ⁓ this year it was gonna be a cruise to the Bahamas and ⁓ ⁓ the day that the cruise left was the day before my eighteenth birthday. So I paid for it, but I wasn't allowed to go 'cause I was still grounded. ⁓ my god. Brutal. Yeah. Like I saved up s ⁓ it costs I it was like, you discounted 'cause there was a group of us, but I think it was like seven hundred dollars or something. And I like worked my ass off at my job and literally all that all the money I made working part time was going to this cruise that all my friends went on and then I was like I finally turned eighteen and all my friends are on this cruise that I paid for. Brutal mom. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. Harsh. Life's but yeah. I mean, but it got you it got you to where you are now. And that's I mean like exactly you were telling that story, and I was like, that's like cinematic though. The idea of like I got grounded, but then my like my friend who is like the patron saint of getting me into music, shows up with like a beat up piece of shit guitar and some chords written on the back of a menu and says, If you learn guitar in the next eight weeks, you can be in my band. Like That's like fucking punk. It's a pretty cool story. It is. I like it. Yeah, that's beautiful. Wow. Thank you. So you were kind of you were kind of immersing yourself in the world before you were even really like, you know, playing guitar and starting to learn about the, you know, being a performer side of it. ⁓ like was there a moment during that phase where like was there kind of a defining moment where 'Cause it y the way you're describing it sounds kind of organic. Like you kind of were in this community, you're in the scene, hanging out with these guys, doing the stuff. But like was there a moment where you saw someone doing something and it just got you super excited? Like you like where you knew that this is what you wanted to do? Yeah. So I was really into like, you know, r radio bands and stuff, like ha the heavier stuff, like Lincoln Park and like Limp Biscuit and stuff up until I was Honestly, probably in yeah, ⁓ like ninth or tenth grade. And then that's when I like 'cause I I also like I just like I didn't have internet. My mom wouldn't get internet. She d like still never doesn't have internet. She's kinda yeah, she doesn't she like has on her phone now, but like she wouldn't she wouldn't pay to get internet back in the day. So ⁓ I didn't really and also I grew up like in it's a small town outside of Lancaster, so it's very conservative. There's not a big music scene. But like I there I was like really always like drawn to like the couple of like punk kids, like or alternative kids, I guess. And that's how eventually I met you know, met and became good friends with Todd from the Snails. But like I would just ⁓ I did have internet at my dad's house and I would go there like every couple months or whatever. And I would just like take note of all the t-shirts that those kids would wear and then I would look up that music on Limewire. And then I'm like Nice. ⁓ okay, I like this. I like this. And that's when I started to really like dive into like punk and then like now I'm like finding out half of the stuff that I was listening to was like mislabeled. Like I thought there was ⁓ my Sharona. I thought it was by the Ramones until like for a couple of years 'cause that's what it was labeled. Also I didn't realize there was a guitar solo at the end of ⁓ Superman by Goldfinger 'cause it cut off right before the guitar solo. I like lit that was something I didn't realize until 'cause I've never been the hugest fan of of them. ⁓ They I like them. ⁓ I obviously love that song, but like I didn't have Tony Hawk, so I never heard the Rich. And ⁓ I I was like listening to the song maybe like six years ago for the very first time the whole song, like I was except expecting the song to just stop and then I kept going with the guitar solo. I was like, holy short blew my mind. Secret guitar solo. The early days of music pirating were flawed. Yeah. Awesome. Good flaw. But I mean I was gonna say like I I like you know then I I eventually ⁓ became friends with Todd and he is the one that like really got me into like ⁓ like ska and like ⁓ some of the like the like Op Ivy and like ⁓ you know Rancid and stuff like that. And the so I was starting to realize that like, you know, I I was I had this image of like Lincoln Park stadiums unaccessible, like, you know, the dream that's the fantasy is to be like that. And then I remember going to my very first like punk show, ⁓ which is a band I don't support anymore, but going to that show, it was at the Camille Chameleon Club in Lancaster. It's like a legendary club, but it's like, I don't know, f four or five hundred people. And I remember showing up because I've heard about this place. I thought it was gonna be like a a stadium. And then I go there and it's a small little club, and there's this band that I've been listening to nonstop on LimeWire and like all this stuff, and they're right in front of me and you know, they're playing and I'm losing my fucking mind and just like I'm in the pit and like and also there was like there was ⁓ a ⁓ the opening band ⁓ was this cool ska punk band called The Code. That was the first like ska band I saw. And then followed by the ⁓ after them it was bomb the music industry, which I I thought was the most annoying band of my life. And then ⁓ now really well the f because I'm like, just shut up and play the songs because they were just going John and Jeff were just like going and going and going. But looking back, I'm like, that was so fucking cool. But like J the whole show in general, I reali like that moment I'm like, ⁓ these are like kinda normal ass people and they're like this the bands that I hear like on, you know, that are like, you know, like big and that like they're touring, they're like they have successful careers, but they're only like playing to like four hundred people. And I think that was like the moment that I was like, I wanna be like I can actually be in this like cool rock star life, but it doesn't have to be like this big fantasy of being Lincoln Park. Yeah, I can be like in a band and like have this experience every night. And that's when I was like, okay, I wanna be a part of it. And that's when I kinda like latched, you know, me and and Todd became like best friends and we started scheming ways to get the snails signed to Hellcat Records and Yeah. Yeah. And then eventually joined the band. That's really cool. I I love I love that like I mean, not having internet would be rough and I'm pretty sure that's legally child abuse now. ⁓ to describe it. But like it actually ends up kind of echoing it reminds me a lot of the story of like how Kurt Cobain got started, where he was like he didn't really have access to like know what punk was. He just kind of like had an idea of what punk was or like whatever he was able to hear and kind of construct it and it I don't know, it kinda echoes that, which I think i ends up creating a really cool ⁓ you know, kind of domain for you to become an artist. I think that's really cool. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I like ⁓ no regrets. And you throughout the time you were in the snails, was that like close to a decade? Yeah, it was nine years. So I yeah, I joined it in two thousand nine and then ⁓ ended it or I quit the band in January of twenty eighteen. And then the band kinda ⁓ the band had gone in through so many cycles and we even like changed our name. I was like kind of checked out at that point and just not not having fun. ⁓ It like it wasn't going anywhere, no one was really serious, and then that's why I quit that band and then pretty much started Catbite right away after that. ⁓ so and you had been kinda recording a bunch of songs, ⁓ like solo stuff as as Catbite for a while, is that right? Yeah. So like ⁓ kinda like going back to where like the only songs I knew on guitar were the snail songs. I it actually like took me a really long time before I like kind of took guitar seriously and like actually started to teach myself like other songs and like how like to write songs and I was like very self-conscious going into like I've always been extremely self-conscious about my guitar playing, just starting so late, not having any formal, like a very weird training, ⁓ kind of backwards. And so I would like it took me a maybe like four or five yeah maybe even more five, six years of playing guitar before I like started to actually write stuff. But yeah, then I started like writing stuff, even if it was like instrumentals or real songs or just like little stuff. And I like kept them hidden on my computer and my iTunes. And I just yeah, I just saved them under the name CatBite and for years just ne I don't know. I just wanted to start a band called Catbite one day. But I wasn't like I was waiting until I was until I had the confidence to like 'Cause in The Snails, I didn't write anything. I like the singer, ⁓ Todd the singer and lead guitar player, he's like the most incredible songwriter and and guitar player. So he would he pretty much like wrote the songs and he's like, This is how they go. And then I would play the simple parts and he would play the leads and all the fancy stuff. And so it was like that was just a band that I was like managing and booking for and driving for and then like playing rhythm guitar. So during your time in the snails, you Ended up doing ⁓ a bunch of US tours, right? ⁓ you were playing around the country. Yeah, we maybe not a bunch of tours, but a bunch of shows around the country. Yeah, we would you know, we I wanted to tour all the time. Everyone in that band was kinda like not as into it. Like we I think we did like two half US tours. We would tour like about a month a year, something like that. And it was, you know, we we were a tr traditional ska band Trying to tour in like the I guess the aughts. Yeah. And so like nobody gave a fuck. And you know, we were just we were booking tours because we wanted to tour, not because anyone wanted us to tour. ⁓ that was a big dip in like ska pot. I grew up listening to Ska in in the like mid nineties when it was sort of had its like big comeback. Yeah. And I do remember when that became not cool. So but like that's kind of That's all I kinda knew. I was just like I was so stoked, you know, there'd be like ten, fifteen people at our show in like in like Durham, North Carolina. I'm like, We've we've made it. Like like we've made it. People are here. You know, it's more than two people, ⁓ stuff like that. And but ⁓ yeah, I mean we were just literally just touring because we wanted to do it and we would like make friends with, you know, other other ska band the very small like ska network. And that's kind of like what grew the foundation for Catbite because I ⁓ you know, played in this did played all these cities and the snails. And then I was also in a playing guitar in another ska band, simultaneously, which had kind of some overlap with the snails, like members of the snails would be in it. It was just like a a guy, Sammy Kay. ⁓ and then he had ten different lineups, but it was kinda the same thing. And we did a lot more touring with that band 'cause he was kind of the same thing and he's also like very much like my mentor 'cause he he started touring from like a young age, doing like merch and stuff for like Westbound bands like Westbound Train and like Slackers and stuff like that. ⁓ so he was kinda like he kinda took me he like a couple of years older than me and he kinda took me under his wing and like kinda showed me what to do and I also learned a lot of what not to do as far as touring. ⁓ but I don't know, it it's just cool to like figure it out. 'Cause that that's what I like those years with the snails and and Sammy Kay were like the the figuring out what to do and what absolutely not to do. 'Cause there's there's really no way to nobody teaches you this shit. Yeah. It's without without like literally like a mentor in the like indie music scene figuring out like how do people actually survive this and make it work and do it, it it can seem really impossible, I think. Yeah. Yeah. I was just like looking back at some of the stuff I did, I'm like, ⁓ that's so cringy. Like like asking like like you know, I I would do anything like to get on shows or like, you know, I'd be like emailing like the manager for like some you know social distortion. Hey, so we're gonna be playing a show in Dallas. Would you guys wanna play? Would would social distortion want to play with us? You guys can headline. And I'm like, ⁓ could we just like shit like that. Respectfully. Yeah. It'd be yeah, like the venue would like say, Yeah, we can like I'd be like trying to book a show through a venue and they're like, Yeah, we have this open, but we need you to fill out the lineup. Like, okay, I got an idea. Social distortion. Just shit like that. They're from there, right? ⁓ but like, you know, there's just there's so much trial and error and I definitely would not like Cat Byte would not have had our like you know, when we started when we started Cat Bite, like I it was just like, okay, taking all of that knowledge of stupid things and the things that worked and just like doing it right from the beginning. And also having like this this great like network of friends from all over the country of, you know, being in this touring ska band that not many people cared about, but like people, you know, got I earned like a lot of respect from like all these bands all across the country, ⁓ new and old and stuff. And it's a very tight family. Yeah. Did you when you guys started playing with Cat Byte, I mean you've done some cool tours, you played with a lot of really cool bands and had some like from what I can tell, some really cool experiences. How quick was it from you know going with one band and then you start Cat Byte? But you guys recorded in what 2019, I think the first album came out. Mm-hmm. How quick was it that the response was telling you like, ⁓ maybe this is gonna be received different than things have been before? Yeah, it was it was very strange. Just because like like ⁓ the I think the the biggest so yeah, I s we I ended I ended the snails in January and then started like officially started working on cat bite maybe like April or March. Yeah, two, three months. ⁓ Which that wasn't really the plan. It just kinda organically happened. And ⁓ right away we just did like three like live in the studio demos. We did a selector cover, we did a little Richard cover, and we did an original. And it this like literally I I wasn't like thinking like it was gonna t I was just like, I'm just gonna do this a little bit smarter than the snails and like more strategic. But yeah, like I I put out these videos just like on Facebook and people like all over the Skov community that I met, just like everyone just like latched on really quick and was like very excited. Like Tim from the Snails has a new band and it's awesome. And and I'm like, ⁓ that's cool. People care. And then ⁓ and then Mike from Bad Time Records ⁓ sent me a message and is like, Hey, I'm starting a new record label called Bad Time Records. Do you guys want to be our first release? I'm like, Okay. Okay, this is crazy. And then but then the biggest thing was like when we finally put out that record with Bad Time Records in 2019. So like less than a year after we started, ⁓ maybe ⁓ right around a year. and we like he put it up on his site like for pre sales and people like bought it. Like I don't even remember how many pe like I just remember like the first day it was like Mike was like, Yeah, we sold thirty records today and I'm like, That's more records than the snails sold in ten years. Like like we would You know, at like sh there's so many leftover snail stuff. Like we buy I think we probably in like each record that we put out we would get, you know, ⁓ five hundred CDs and we would sell like forty of ⁓ You know, like it's just like I there was this that was like completely blindsided me. Like I did not expect that. Like the people like pre sale buy a a vinyl record that my brand new band made. That that's that that was the biggest thing for me. I was like, ⁓ okay, this is like people are very interested in this and it's very strange. That's a cool like I feel like we've only talked to a few people so far, but of the people we've talked to, ⁓ I feel like we hear similar stories, which is like I did this for a while with other bands, with other things, and it went fine, or we were playing, you know, touring out of our car with selling records out of the trunk. ⁓ And it was whatever, but then the thing that we know them for, it hit pretty quick. Like when it worked, it worked kinda almost right away. When you find that right recipe, yeah. It people people get it pretty fast usually. Yeah. You don't hear a ton of stories where people are like this one band with the same four people banged our head against the wall for a decade and then suddenly everyone liked us. Like Exactly. Yeah, it was it was very quick. And then that's when we're like, ⁓ okay. Let's do this. So quick that did you have ⁓ like studio time booked before you even had a full band together? Yes. Is that right? Yeah. So yeah, Capite, it was like me and ⁓ Brit, we started like kind of working on songs together and like established we wanted to start a ska band. And then I like asked my friend Johnny if he wanted to play bass on. He's like, Yeah. And then ⁓ my friend Brent who i he he books like a bunch of shows and stuff. he was asking he like heard that I was like talking ⁓ about starting like a new ska band and he was booking a show in Philly and said, Hey, can your new ska band are are you guys gonna be ready to play this show? I'm like, Yes, put us on. We didn't have a drummer. We didn't have any songs. We didn't it was like Maybe two months away. So I'm like, that's totally fine. Do it. Yeah. We will be totally fine. This is not a problem at all. ⁓ see. How close how close did it come? Did you figure it all out right away, or was it like that last week you were starting ⁓ yeah, it was like last yeah. So we yeah, we start so that the three of us started ⁓ like working on songs just together and then we tried out ⁓ we wanted Chris to be our drummer. Well who is our current drummer? Like Chris, he w like we all three of us were good friends with him. ⁓ he's an amazing drummer. I toured with Chris. in that Sammy Kay band. Chris had played drums ⁓ for a tour on that and that's when we like got really close. ⁓ we did a three month tour together straight. So we instantly bonded. but Chris also played in like five or six other bands and he's like, Yeah, I love you guys, but I I don't think you're serious about starting a band and I'm too busy 'cause also I was like, once a week we're gonna rehearse, we're gonna do this and this and this and I think it he was just like, No. ⁓ But so we like tried out a couple of people, no one fit at all. and then B ⁓ then yeah, so I booked Studio Time because that's obviously what you do when you still do when you still don't have a drummer. ⁓ 'cause that's when I wanted to do these three demos. And then ⁓ so I was hanging out with Chris ⁓ at Supernova Ska Festival. ⁓ this is a maybe so this is three days before the studio time and ⁓ about Two weeks before the the first show and we still don't have a drummer, but we have a couple songs ⁓ from just like garage band drums and then bass guitar and keyboard and vocals. ⁓ so I was hanging out with Chris. I'm like, so you know, ⁓ on Monday or Tuesday, whatever, a couple of days from now, we're gonna be recording three songs in the studio. Two of them are cover, one is super easy. Can you just pop by and just drum in the studio just so we have like these demos to like figure out whatever? And he's like, Yeah, of course. And then so he came out. Just banged him out perfectly. You know, it didn't even really need to hear it. It just ⁓ and then yeah, me and Britt were just like, yes, you you know the songs now. Do you want can you just do the show? Just maybe just be the band, man. Just be the band. Like it's it's kind of just like it slowly just he I think he he realized like, okay, this is like they're serious about starting this band. Like, it's not just talk. It's it's gonna be a cool show. I'll try it out, we'll do it. And That's yeah, and then we started like practic we practiced a little bit and then played our first show and then we've he has never left. The vibes were good. Yeah. Do you remember at what point what was it that made Chris say, Okay, now I'm gonna settle in with this band? I don't I mean, I think I think we just had such a good time, like when we were in the studio, like that for the because we just bang those songs out really quick, like in an afternoon and You know, like I said, like he he wanted to be he wanted to do it. He was just like kinda too busy. I think I kinda scared him when I initially was talking to him, like trying to be like too professional about it. and yeah, I I think it just you know, like I said, like we were all like very good friends. We still are, we're amazing friends. ⁓ so it just like I I think it just clicked and everyone had a really good time and then the first show was really cool and yeah. I I think also none of us really at all knew the where it was gonna go. Like we were like, Yeah, this would be a fun band that we can just like play Ska, play in the city, maybe do a couple tours here and there. ⁓ yeah, because I didn't not none of us saw this shit happening with where capital. Do you remember were you kind of setting goals for this band is going to tour, record an EP or full length or whatever? D w did you have your sights on something, or was it just ⁓ let's see where this goes? It was at the beginning it was a lot of let's see where this goes. ⁓ but like let's just do everything right. Or like let's do every like let's not half ass anything and just see where it goes. That's kind of where ⁓ and it was like, you know, we're not gonna be like the thing I didn't really like about when I was in the snails is we were very there like everyone in the band was very particular about the sound and it falling into this sp special sound. But then it also kept changing. ⁓ but like like we were pretty strictly like Trad ska like sixties Jamaica, no distortion, like stuff like that. And ⁓ just like it it being a little bit too many rules. And so like Capite, the whole beginning it was like ska music with no rules. That's that's it. Like we're gonna play old stuff, new stuff, f what like literally whatever. We wanna have the bass SB ska, but like we want everyone to like contribute their their you know, their musical taste and like That's why like we w you know, have little bit of hardcore, a little bit of like funky sound, a little bit of soul, a little bit of just like ska when it started. Like, you know, ska was a a combination of like Clipso and ⁓ R and B and jazz and stuff. So I always kinda liked that and I think you can have you can have so much fun with it. ⁓ but yeah, like the initial thing it was just see how things go and we were talking about just doing like a self released EP or record. Eventually. And then that's like when I just randomly got the message from Mike at Badtime. He's like, Do you wanna do he asked if I want to do an EP and I said, Yeah. And then we were taking our time. He Do you want to just do a record? And I'm like, Yeah. And then we wrote it and we released it. And like we re we recorded our first record in ⁓ two full days and two afternoons. So yeah, about three days. ⁓ and it was just like ⁓ we we like wrote half the songs like r like the week before we went in the studio. It's I I really wish we spent a little bit more time on the record, but and it was also like I mean, I really like the progression of how our music has grown. But like that record, the first record, it was kind of mostly me writing the songs, ⁓ and not as much collaborative effort. ⁓ and then I love how everything we've put out since is so much more collaborative and not just Weird little things going on in my head. Like I like whatever when everyone else is contributing. absolutely, yeah. It it always ⁓ tends to make everything that much better when you get the weird little things from everybody's head and and you can share an idea that you're not quite sure what to do with, and somebody else is like, ⁓ no, that inspires me to do this thing that ends up working out great. Exactly. So the the first self-titled ⁓ record was 2019. Yeah, we I think we started recording it like New Year's Day of twenty nineteen. And then ⁓ you had some some big plans for twenty twenty, which ⁓ we all know was a super fun year for everybody. What ⁓ times. Yeah. Yeah, 'cause like I mean great time for live music. Yeah. ⁓ yeah. I def I definitely consider the whole thing a blessing and a curse. ⁓ you know, for Cat Bite specifically. Obviously like global pandemic is not cool at all. ⁓ but I think it it really helped it helped cat yeah, very hot. I I really helped ⁓ it definitely helped Catbite and like kind of ⁓ so yeah, we put out the record in 2019 and we start doing shows that are not just like fill I think we played like four sh shows before the record came out. Like there was we were barely a band in 2018. ⁓ but yeah, we started like the record you know, came out, we started getting all this traction. We're like, okay, we've made it. We got a tour. That was like the brand thing. So I started, you know, booking tour like starting to work on a lot of touring for twenty twenty. But it was kind of the same route that I was going with the snails where it was like, you know, ⁓ I don't think we were ready to tour. Like it was kind of us booking tours to before there's a demand. ⁓ I mean a little demand, but like I don't think it looking back, like I I'm really glad that those sh those tours didn't happen 'cause it let us kind of build our our demand a lot more ⁓ during COVID and then when we started touring again I think it hit a lot harder. Like I think we would have kind of got lost in that ⁓ local band does five day tour weekend and it's like the shows are fine and, you know, it could just go south. We we hit the burnout fast. but yeah, so like we had ⁓ a handful of tour dates booked starting March of twenty twenty and then cancelled all of that. ⁓ but then used that time. We were also gonna be going to the West Coast and we had the flights booked. So we actually used the flights to the West Coast instead of touring the West Coast to fly out there and record an album in November of twenty twenty. Which we also another thing, we we booked the the studio time before we had a single song written. It works, I guess. Is that just that's just a cat byte method now? It's like you've you've already got studio time booked for the next record that you haven't even started throw that cart out there. Let's get on our horses. It's it's it's it works, I guess. You know, it's it's always kinda been how I work. I am highly motivated when I have a deadline and pressure. ⁓ I'm right there with you. It just it works and ⁓ it's not ideal but it works. ⁓ I I mean this it was like, you know, at this point, like April twenty twenty and our flights were ⁓ I think so they were originally September. Then we had to actually postpone it two months because our bass player Ben got bit by a dog and s shattered his wrist. like bad dogs. Yeah. Win ⁓ Winston? R. I. P. ⁓ Yeah, it was ⁓ it was a whole sad story. But he has credit on our ⁓ on our album, Winston the Dog. 'Cause ⁓ Ben works at a dog daycare and there was like a big fight and he got in the middle of it. It was rough. ⁓ where was I going with that? ⁓ yeah, on the high points of 2020. Yeah. But we ⁓ yeah, we ended up like booking the studio time for September in like April. And I'm like, that's totally enough time to write a record. So why was it California for recording? Yeah, in Long Beach. There was like this producer that I was a big fan of, and right before COVID I got to meet him, ⁓ cause he his band was on tour with interrupters and I was friends with the interrupters I was hanging out with them and they introduced me to this guy Davey ⁓ who's in the in the support band and ⁓ I've always been a fan of his recording and stuff and he really liked our first record and he's like yeah I would love to produce you I'm like okay noted and then as soon as like you know everything shut down and like well we all have flights to Los Angeles and his studio is in Long Beach should we and it's like the it was like flights for like 10 days or whatever. So we're like let's just Keep the flights and then just go out go out there, lock ourselves in a studio for ten days, make a record, and then come back home. And that's what we did, but we ended up having to move it to November because of the dog incident. Sure. Yeah. ⁓ and and that's the record that became Nice One? Nice one, yes. Yes. But so before Nice One, you've maybe played what, fifteen, twenty shows? Yeah. Honestly, yeah. I would love to count. But yeah, I would say somewhere between fifteen and twenty in like from twenty eighteen, twenty nineteen, twenty. And then we played our first show back, our first official show back from COVID was August sixth, twenty twenty one. And that was our record release show for Nice One. and that all just kind of worked out perfectly because we spent the whole all of like quarantine ⁓ just like completely like building the band up online. ⁓ 'cause we were just bored. And you know, I and I had all this motivation 'cause the band was like ready to make moves and tour and stuff. I'm like, okay, let me just take all that energy and figure out something else to do. And we like, you know, I l ⁓ you know, I I I'm pretty decent with like video stuff. Ben is a audio engineer, so we started doing a lot of, you know, video stuff and live concerts and collaborations with other people and just like kept growing the band and a lot more people started to know about us outside of like the Philly or like the local like ska scenes and stuff and then right when we released our record, it was like the perfect time for shows to happen again and ⁓ our it was our very first headline show and we sold it out in like three hours. Well it was like it's small it's like a cool like small like hundred fifty cap venue but like that was that was that was like another peak moment in my musical career. ⁓ like selling out our very first headline show. Yeah. ⁓ because like we were s ⁓ in March of twenty twenty we were gonna ha headline show in as part of like all the touring we were gonna do and tickets were on sale for at least I don't know a month and a half. I think we sold two two pre-sales. So ⁓ it's kind of cool to like 'cause also like that's something I never would even imagine like in the days of touring with the snails. Like I didn't even know people bought pre-sale tickets to like shows like that. Like sure ⁓ to like even think about like ⁓ yeah, like thirty people bought tickets to see my band. Like that just that that I couldn't even fathom that. But a hundred and fifty people bought tickets to see my band on a record release show. That like just yeah. And you didn't even have to offer to give them all rides to the show. Yeah, exactly. I didn't have to borrow my mom's Tarango. Yeah, they went they found the show on their own. That's amazing. No ⁓ custom wrapped cat bite chocolate bars. No, but you know, maybe I should get back into that cat bite bars. Bite bar, bar bites, bar bites. There's definitely something for ⁓ you know, take a bite of a cat bite bar or something. That's ⁓ it'll it'll write itself. Yeah. You're just gonna have to start a marketing campaign, start reaching out to some stores and saying, Hey, I don't I haven't actually made this product yet, but this is how I operate. I need to get a contract with you, I'm gonna put it on the shelf. Or I'll tell them I'm ready and then I start. After they confirm it, as soon as they put an order in for five hundred. Yes. On that topic, actually, I'm just I'm purely curious because like I think it it's amazing that you were like had the sort of like courage and everything to ⁓ to go for it in that way. I would personally be terrified. If I were in your band, I'd be like, what the fuck are we doing? Right? Like was the rest of the band like into it? Do you have like convince them, like, no, this is a good idea, I promise? Like for ⁓ which part? Like the the co- ⁓ I'm sorry, j just for like like like like booking, like you know basically going and doing like you know recording time before you even had had the songs written, that sort of thing, right? Like Yeah. ⁓ I think they've learned to trust the process. But I think I think we're like we're not as bad as we used to. That that was kind of in the days when I was like fully in charge. ⁓ and it was like kind of like my band. ⁓ so it was kind of like you know, they were just kind of going along with it. And now that we're like a little bit more of a well oiled machine and like we all like I I still like manage the band ⁓ but we we like to do we delegate a lot and we're like a lot more organized than we used to be. Like we kinda have to be at this point. Like we're a whole LLC corporation, you know, cat by LLC. ⁓ so like we you know we're we're a little bit more strategic with things. We still like to do the last minute things. Like for example, we ⁓ we ha ⁓ Fishbone, ⁓ the band Fishbone, they asked us to do a ⁓ they put out a record of all these bands covering all the c ⁓ Fishbone songs for the forty year anniversary of the album. I can't think of what it's called right now. But we totally forgot about the deadline and it was like hypothetically I think it was like Due on like January seventeenth and then on the thirteenth, the manager's like, Hey, is that coming soon? I'm like, ⁓ shit. Like I was out I was out of the country, like everyone was like working and stuff, and ⁓ but we're fishboat down. Yeah. But we s I was like, no way are we missing out on this and we were able to like book studio time, learn the song, go in, record, get it mixed, get it mastered all in time. Like literally like all that happened in a matter of like three days. So it's like If we need to get something done, we will get it done. ⁓ and like but it's also funny 'cause it's like, okay, we gotta have some band practice and like trying to find a time to ban to have a band practice. So like it just never happens because we're so like, you know, everyone's got crazy schedules, but if it's like something important, it's like, all right, so we need to record this whole song in three days, we make it happen. So it's it's kinda just how we work and I think everyone kinda sees that that it it works. It's worked, yeah. Yeah. The Cat Bite Playbook. If if it works, it works. If it works, it works. Cool. as you continued, you know, growing that popularity from Quick One and then after Doom Garden. was the Gaslight Anthem tour that was post Doomgarden? Pre. That was ⁓ Pre, okay. Yeah, that was ⁓ in twenty twenty three October of twenty twenty three, maybe September. Right, okay. Yeah I Who knows how time works. ⁓ still since 2020, I have no idea what year happened. I imagine getting that sort of opportunity ⁓ to to tour with Gaslight Anthem it feels like a this is it. Like we we've made it, we're we're playing with somebody that, you know, I I assume you've looked up to and and followed for some years. ⁓ and then ⁓ I saw found somewhere That ⁓ you said there were a thousand faces looking at you like you had no business being there. Is that yeah? Yeah. yeah, exactly. It's it's it was such a fun and funny tour. like we became really good friends with Brian Fallon. just like through the internet, we found out he liked our band. I've been a fan of Gaslight Anthem for a really long time. ⁓ I've actually actually in the Sammy Kay band that I was in a long time ago, I actually toured with the Gaslight Anthem. ⁓ Also ⁓ eleven years ago. So it was but none of them remembered me. So but I also I was like I was really scrawny and I had a big beard and like slicked back hair. So I I like told Brian, I'm like, Dj so I don't know if you remember, but I actually toured with you ⁓ ten years ago. And he was like, ⁓ Yeah. I'm like, Don't worry about it, it's all good. I was also playing bass in that band too. We're cool. ⁓ But yeah, like that that tour was we got the offer for the tour and we're like, okay, we know this is gonna be extremely weird, but it's gonna be fun. And it it was kind of we kind of went into it as like a fun a couple reasons. One for like we get to play with Gaslight Anthem. That's sick. ⁓ we get to ⁓ play in front of people that definitely have never heard of us or have listened to Ska in the last 30 years. Cool. And then also ⁓ we We're already doing a tour with the Bouncing Souls that started in San Diego and the Gasolanthem tour went from Ohio to Sacramento and literally put us right into the Bouncing Souls tour so we didn't have to fly or drive across the country in one straight shot. So we're like this works out really well. ⁓ but yeah, it was ki it was it was very weird at first, but especially because We had just done the second leg of the Bad Time Records tour, which ⁓ was all like a bunch of the bands from Bad Time Records playing awesome, like smaller clubs. Almost every show was sold out. ⁓ it was a triple headliner between us and then our label mates, Kill Lincoln and We are the union. So we're like playing some of the best shows of our career. ⁓ and then go right from that to Supernova Ska Festival, which is just like an amazing ska festival. I know like everyone there. People love us, like Also one of the best shows, you know, of our career. And then immediately going from that to playing a sold-out sh show with a gasket anthem in Cleveland to like 2,000 people just looking at us like literally we ⁓ they don't know what to fucking do. They're just like some people look mad, some people look confused, a lot of people look disappointed. just like one guy skanking by himself. Come on, guys. Yeah. ⁓ and it was like, Okay, this is really we it just the juxtaposition was I think the craziest part, just for like from going from f some of the most insane crowds there to see us and then going to this 'cause we've we've always done we've always liked the challenge like we've always been a fan of ⁓ you know, playing with s with bands outside of the ska scene because I think our band we kinda mesh with a lot of stuff and it it works, I think. And good bands are good band too. Like it doesn't matter what the genre is. If you're like going to see a good band, you probably have okay taste in music. Yeah, if the band that opens up is good, you're gonna be like, This is kinda great. Yeah. And it's like it's fun that way. And like I don't wanna be, you know, just be pigeonholed to only playing with ska bands. Like I think mixed bills are so cool. ⁓ but this was like extreme because Gaslight Anthem fans like the Gaslight Anthem and that's it. And Bruce and Bruce Springsteen. So it's like that's right. I mean, there's obviously some bleed, but overlook overlap people like the other stuff. But like they're they're very, very like I I don't even know, especially in some cities it's worse than others, but like ⁓ like Indianapolis was probably one of the weirdest fucking shows of my life with with the gaslight anthem. It was the third show of the tour, and like ⁓ yeah, it was just like after that show, we're like, okay, we just gotta, we can't take ourselves seriously. Like, let's just like we kind of slapped ourselves in the face. We're like, all right, we're having fun, we're doing this for us. And Brian Fallon likes our band, so let's entertain him every night. And that was kind of the the the way we went into it for the rest of the tour, and we made it really fun. And I think it and it's just like, you know, it it's it's tough when you're playing in front of people. But then we also started to notice like that whole tour, we would we would do that, playing to people looking miserable. ⁓ and then every night there'd be a huge line at our merch table. And a lot of people coming up to us, like the guy that was looking at me like The whole time. No, I know that. Yeah, but then he comes up the merch table's like, I never heard of you guys. I haven't listened to Scotch since no doubt and you know, nineteen ninety seven. And No Doubt. Yeah, we're like, You ever heard of the band No Doubt? Yeah, I've heard of them. I think and like, you we're having all these awesome conversations 'cause we we always like we're work our own merch table 'cause it's so much fun, you know, to talk to people, especially at these support show ⁓ support tours that we do because a lot of people are finding out about us for the first time and that's why we do those tours. And it was it was really interesting. And we started seeing more and more people, especially once we kind of loosened up and like weren't so in our heads about it. Like people were really excited to like see something they haven't seen in a long time or have never seen or like were the first Ska band that they like or I don't know. Just Yeah, so it was cool. And then and then we got to finish that tour and then we got to go straight to the Bouncing Sto Bouncing Souls tour, which was kind of similar, but like a lot better. There's something better fit. There's something about watching a band have fun that's like do I rem one of the first times that I remember really being like, Fuck, I wanna be in a band so bad. I was watching some little tiny like pop punk band at like a fifty hundred person teen center or something. Uhhuh. And the bass player and the lead singer were playing a song, but you could tell that they didn't really give a shit. And the whole time they were trying to kick each other. That's and they were just cracking up and just like trying to like jump kick each other while playing this song. And I was just like, those guys are having so much fun and the song's pretty good. Like But like, yeah, you could just I don't know. When it's laid back, when you can tell that they like each other and that they're doing this because they like doing it, it makes a difference. Yeah. And I can imagine that moment when that like like you said, you give yourself a slap on the face and you're like, let's just Have a good time. That's why we that's why we're playing music. Exactly. And the crowd the crowd can respond to that. And that's cool. Yeah. Yeah. I appreciate the the ⁓ intention there. ⁓ you know, potentially could have sort of taken the wind out of your sails and turned into a pretty shitty tour for you. But to be able to say, like, fuck it, we're on the road, we're playing in front of a bunch of people and even if it's like a small percentage of them that are gonna come up afterwards, like, let's just play to them. Let's let's play to the the people that we know we're gonna turn into long time. Yeah. That's that's the thing. Have fun and play there's peop there are always people there to see you, even if it's one person, like that that that's that's the one thing that always like no matter like if I'm pissed off or if I'm not feeling it, something's going wrong, not a lot of people showed up. I don't know, just like that. I'm like, there's one person in this room I guarantee that paid money to see this band, to see my band. And if I don't play at twelve thousand percent, like that sucks. Like they paid money to see me. us, you know, and right that is all like the one thing that's all that and just like I like playing with my with my best friends. Like that's that's always there. But like, you know, no matter what, I always think about that one little thing and that's always like so I always give it a thousand percent. Even when I'm if I'm not feeling it or like something's really pissing me off or like something's going wrong. It's just like think about that. That's great advantage. I love it. Yeah. I I had seen ⁓ like Built to Spill multiple times and then there was this one show where It just seemed like they were so checked out or they were, you know, running the grocery list in their heads or whatever. Famously built to spill inconsistent shows. Yeah. That was actually the f the first band that I left I went to and I left early. That like of my of my going to shows career, it was yeah, I saw them and I left like even before the encore. This isn't what I thought it was gonna be like. Sometimes sometimes with them it's not at all. And their encores are like a fifteen minute jam or whatever. Every burger. Yeah, yeah, yeah. ⁓ I that that stopped me from going to Built to Spill shows for a long time. ⁓ I actually just fresh out of COVID, ⁓ Third Eye Blind played at a big like state fair that we have ⁓ in Washington. And I thought, ⁓ you know, I I don't I'm I wouldn't consider myself a third eye blind fan. I couldn't name more than the radio hits, but like ⁓ I'll I'll go to the fair and and watch them and built to spill ended up opening. And they were so much fun. Like their bass player Melanie was just like, she's a shredder, she's amazing, and and ⁓ so now I'm I'm I'm back on the scene. I'll see if they come through again and can keep me entertained. Tim, what I love hearing stories about playing with bands like Bouncing Souls. ⁓ what's I guess kind of a two part question. Of all the kind of shows with Cat Bite that you've played, what was the one that you think you might identify as like that's the one where I were like we were the closest to big or to fame or to like this was a big deal and then sort of sub question what was maybe like one of your favorite shows you've ever played? Okay. First question, I think it was when we were in Japan, we got really lucky and we played four shows in Japan with these two ⁓ Japanese ska bands. One is Tokyo Ska Paradise Orchestra and they're a Big fucking deal. Ever I mean, kind of all over the world, but especially in Japan. Yeah. And then also this ⁓ this newer band that's one of the best live ska punk bands. One of the best live bands I've ever seen. They're called Haysmith. And they're like cool, like ska punk. And so we got to play shows with them. And then also our our US friends, Kill Lincoln. So it was the four band. and the the very first show of the tour was in Tokyo. They're these shows were in t quote intimate shows. So ⁓ it's it's like this actually I'm wearing the shirt. Scott. Sky Ramble, Japan. ⁓ it's like a yearly thing that the two bands do where they they play like these intimate shows in like Osaka and Nagoya in Tokyo. And ⁓ then they like invite other bands from like international. So they invited us and first show was Tokyo, it was I think three thousand people sold out. Yeah, yeah, right. Exactly. And and just like I I don't know. Like we so we played second that night and But like I remember like doors opened at like six PM or whatever. And like by like six twenty, there was three thousand people in in the crowd. Like it was like everyone was on time, ready for the show. and just like waiting and waiting and then ⁓ kill Lincoln plays. And I'm watching and I'm just like losing I'm like, wow, this is the most insane thing I've ever seen. There's the crowd is just going so insane. They're like doing everything to Kill Lincoln's saying, like clap your hands. There's three thousand sets of hands going up. ⁓ And then yeah, just like then we go out and we run out and I've never had like a crowd respond so quickly or so loudly and crazily w to a band that they don't even really know. Like no one was there to see us. Like no one has heard of us, but like the feeling of it and like also just we we got really lucky because ⁓ the other two Japanese bands, they have a whole ⁓ crew. so I I got to literally be like a rock star for these shows in Japan. Like I set up my like they rented everything I w and I needed. I just had my guitar and my pedals. They had the amp. They had all that stuff. And I'm like getting ready for the sound check and I'm like setting up my stuff. And then there's like all these like engineers and crew members just like like following me around and like measuring the angle of my microphone, measuring the distance of my pedal board to my stand, measuring the Like the angle of the amp to me. And I after that one initial setup, I didn't have to touch any of my gear the entire rest of the tour except for when I was like actively sound checking or when I was playing. Like they would set everything up the exact same way for the next like three shows. ⁓ all my set settings were exactly the same. like my amp was at the exact same angle, the same everything dialed in. My guitar was tuned and cleaned. Like Yeah. And like like literally, you know, I would walk off the stage and then just go to the green room. I like I didn't have to, you know, put my guitar down and go back on the stage. It sounds magic. I didn't have to pack up. I didn't have to put it into a van. I didn't even know where things went. Like the first night I was like after I played, I'm like, where's my stuff? And they're like, it's all taken care of. You're like, but where's my stuff? Yeah. You're like, you see it tomorrow. I'm like, what? And then I I like From a punk band in Philly, like, did you gonna steal my shit? Exactly. So that that is like I don't yeah, that was like some next level shit, but it was very, very, very, very, very cool. And I'm not really expecting that, you know, for the rest of my life. But if I get that again, that'd be cool. ⁓ and then next question was ⁓ favorite show of Favorite show you've played, yeah. Yeah, I mean, you know, it's okay if l if an hour from now you're like, ⁓ fuck, that wasn't the my f like what's one that comes to mind? I think I think the one that just quickly comes to my mind is we just had our th third ⁓ yeah, third ever hometown headline show here in Philly. It was for the rec the release show for Doomgarden, the EP we put out last year. And it was at like the legendary first Unitarian Church here in Philly and we sold it out. Which is like six hundred and fifty people in our hometown, like at this venue that like is so legendary and you know, just a Philly punk icon. and we were like we were like very close. We had like ⁓ you know, we were very close to selling it out. Like we I don't know, there's like a hundred tickets left like the week of and I'm like Ugh, like it'd be like I was like I'm so stoked that, you know, there's five th like five hundred people at this point that's bought tickets and that's awesome. But I'm like Man, like I just wanna sell this show out. And I kinda like came to terms came to terms it's like gonna get close but not and then like the day of we sold like the last like fifty tickets or whatever. And then like bef like right before we went to to drive to the venue for like load in, I got a text from ⁓ Brian, our booking agent. He's like, You did it. You sold it out. And that was just very cool moment. And then obviously then playing the show, it was so cool. I made like a I don't know if if you're familiar with the church, but it's just it's very like DIY. It's literally a church basement in Philly in center city. and just like there's no like lights and stuff. There's literally just like an overhead light ⁓ on the stage. but I like made this whole like lighting rig with like all these like construction lights and like put like filter over it, like a a yellow like gel and then like daisy chain them all and like put them on a foot pedal. And I like went all out and like did this thing and then like had it projecting like the shadows of us onto our banner. And I would like turn it off for like this like the little set breaks and stuff. And And it went well. It worked. It went well. Yeah, it everything worked. So ⁓ yeah, I would say that was probably my f favorite show that I can think of right now. That's a beautiful feeling. I asked that question because I think that there's always a contrast between the biggest and the favorite, and they're not usually the same thing. Mm-hmm. 'Cause the favorite like the biggest one is always like I had one plug and play experience in my life where I got kinda like that where I got to walk up and plug my guitar into a bunch of gear that was already set up for me and I loved it. No one cleaned my guitar. That's fucking Yeah, especially because I sweat. Yeah. But I do remember the one that I had like that. It was like the next night we were playing in a different city and it was at like a coffee shop in the back room and like nothing worked and like we had to load all our gear in again. And I was like It's pretty nice when I got to just plug my guitar in. Yeah. And back to life as usual. Yeah, but it's never the same thing. Like my you know, a lot of favorite shows I think are art in a church basement or at a house show you play on tour somewhere in a small town that just like you didn't see it coming, but the crowd was great and Yeah. I feel like I have like a hundred favorite shows all for different reasons. Yeah. Like like there's this show because the energy, this show because of the sound, this show because it was the hometown biggest show. Like there's there's like I could just like name hundred hundred shows like right at off like at the bat. Just like That are super memorable for their own like little individual reason. That's beautiful. Totally. So you ⁓ you go from playing in the snails and feeling kinda like you know nothing's really happening and then cat bites picking up and and gaining success. ⁓ after a couple of years, you did the op Ivy show with Laura Jane Grace, on ⁓ on Doomgarden, Patrick Stump from Fallout Boy. ⁓ I I hear the story is you reached out, asked if you'd be interested. maybe didn't hear back immediately and then he sent you like thirty-two tracks and and had written some new lyrics and everything? Pr pretty much. He he responded after like a month and a half and was like, Yeah, I would love to. And then ⁓ then there was a lot of back and forth between me and him. Me kinda asking him if like he knew he wanted ideas, me trying to kind of pitch my ideas and then him like avoiding every question I have and then like asking me a completely different question. And then I was like, ⁓ no, I don't think this is gonna actually I don't think he's ever gonna actually do it. And then like And we're like, so we so we really really need this done. ⁓ like let me know if you wanna like talk about it. And then it was like this is like th two months of of emailing and then just like one day just getting an an email with thirty two tracks of just vocals and trumpet from Pat Chick and it's crazy. So you know, that that that decade of kind of feeling like ⁓ this isn't really going where it's gonna go with the snails and then by by the end ⁓ you we get to You're headlining these tours, you're selling out in your hometown stuff. That's that's quite a quite a gap, quite a bridge along. Yeah, it's very cool. I'm very, very grateful. What do you feel is ⁓ what's next for Catbite after this ⁓ rest that you're taking? Yeah. ⁓ we are like writing writing and stuff. ⁓ we do have some tours this year. We're taking it easy with a a mild like forty shows, I think. ⁓ I think w the the goal, the plan was forty shows max, but I think we might already have more. But it's not nearly not a hundred and four. ⁓ yeah, we we have it's we're doing like a ⁓ handful of like festivals and stuff. ⁓ we just announced a tour with Rx band R X bandits. We're doing about ten ten shows with them. ⁓ that that's ⁓ that was like written into the the foundation of Catbite. ⁓ Chris's favorite band is R X bandits. And if we ever get a tour offer from Rx Bandits, we do the tour with Rx Bandits. So that's like no ifs, ands, buts. Like we are doing this tour no matter what. So we're doing it. Which I'm I'm excited. I'm very stoked for it. I've never never got into them, but I became like good friends with ⁓ some of the guys in that band. ⁓ so ⁓ it should be cool. That'd be blast. Yeah. That tour that tour is not coming to the Pacific Northwest, so fuck you respectfully. Yeah. Respectfully agree. Yeah. Yeah. I ⁓ unfortunately, yeah, we have no Pacific Northwest for twenty twenty six. You have to owe us R R O ⁓ what's I just lost the completely lost the term for IOU for just like a moment and left. Left my head completely. R R O I? No, that's U U O See, Kenny, this is why people don't come to the Pacific Northwest. ⁓ I thought it was the drive. Yeah, I mean, we literally just did that drive, Philly to Seattle. That was fun. Oof. ⁓ yeah, it's long. It's long. Yeah, it's three days. Yeah. Three long days of driving. But it was fun. It was a fun bonding experience. ⁓ Yeah, but unfortunately no Pacific N Northwest for next year unless things change. But ⁓ yeah, we're it we're we're just keeping it kinda domestic. We're announcing one more tour that's gonna and a couple more like festival things. But yeah, we're mostly just kind of taking it easy and writing and figuring out what the next thing is gonna be. Well we know what the next well, we don't know what the next thing is. We wanna we know what we wanna do. We just gotta figure it out. ⁓ so but yeah, right now kind of writing and decompressing and ⁓ yeah. That's awesome. Yeah. So I I I feel like we're, you know, we don't want to take up too much of your time. We've already been talking for a while, which we really appreciate. But you know, one thing we like to hear from people is just like, you know, everybody's sort of path is unique, every journey is unique, and like what if you have advice for people who are, you know, either getting to a you know Like they're just starting out or they're getting to a certain point where they, you know, feel like they're moving from one echelon to the next. Like I don't know. Do you have you know guidance or advice for folks? I I I think think the biggest thing that like Like kinda looking back is I've always just been like you meet people that are very like nonchalant about their music or they're like embarrassed to talk about their band or like like people that don't have like in your face enthusiasm like in a good way. And I feel like I've always had that. Like even before I was in the band, like I was like doing everything for this band I'm not even in. And then like, you know, when I started Cat Bite before like in the like So was at like Supernova when I talked to Chris to convince him to be the drummer and the yeah. Like I was at Supernova, like telling everyone, yeah, I'm starting this band called Cat Bite next year. Check it out. Like it'll be will be everywhere. Just like literally, just I've I've always had ⁓ extreme like enthusiasm and I'm like, you know, like I created this band because it's my I want it to be my favorite band. Like I I feel like most people they should create music to be their their favorite band. They wanna you wanna play what you want to hear. So like Gap Bite's like my favorite band. And so I'm like, I always want to talk to people about it and like have enthusiasm enthusiasm about it because I think it's very contagious. And like if I'm like, yeah, I'm in a band. And like don't want to talk about it, it's like then okay, then no one's gonna care if you're in a band and like like this is like I you know, since I was in high school, like this is all I've ever wanted to do. And ⁓ so I'm you know, I've literally tailored my life to be this way. I've you know dropped out of college to buy a van. I like, you know, I have worked shitty jobs literally my whole life. J like I only work jobs that I know will let me tour. Like I've never had a job like I literally quit a a job of eight years 'cause they stopped letting me they wouldn't let me go on a ⁓ a month and a half tour. So I said, see ya and like then I literally had no no job. I came home and I'm like, all right, let me figure it out. And then I started like work working for a moving company. Like I I ⁓ I might be a little bit more obsessive, but like I think just the underlying thing is like always to have enthusiasm about what you're doing. And I think it's you know, it translates. It doesn't sound like obsessive to me. It sounds like commitment. ⁓ Yeah, maybe that too. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean but I've I don't think I've ever heard anyone say, Be in your favorite band. Like start the band you wanna be in. I love that. Yeah. And I think that that's incredible advice and it's it's so fucking obvious. Like it should be. ⁓ But but you know, I think a lot of people start the band they think people wanna hear. Mm-hmm. ⁓ and the reality is is like, well, maybe that's the same thing in some ways. But if you do start the band that you want to be and you start your favorite band, you are gonna wanna talk about it all the time. You are gonna not you're gonna be able to unabashedly promote it and and without any shame or without any guilt or without any hesitance, like You can get out there and say, No, we're f this band's fucking great. I love it. You're gonna love it too. You gotta check it out. You'll talk about it like you would your favorite band. Yeah. Yeah. I always like keep stickers on me. I'm like, you know, in a different city and they're like, What do you do? I'm in a band. Check it out. Here's a sticker. Like I like I don't give a shit. Like I love it. And people are always like, ⁓ wow, okay, cool. And some people don't care, but like some people, you know, you might like it's happened where like y you know, you meet someone randomly in somewhere and you're like, Yeah, I'm gonna, you know, like they're from Fucking California, meet them in Michigan, and they're Yeah, I'm in a band. And then you like give them a sticker, and then next time you go to California, you see that random person. Yeah. I like I had like I I had a quick story. I had a ⁓ I was eating dinner at a restaurant, and my mom was like telling the server that he's in a band. Like my mom had the enthusiasm. I'm like, Yeah, it's Kappa, yeah, check it out. And then he came to our record release show. Like at the church. And I was like that was my server at the Thai restaurant that I went to like six months ago. Like he because I talked about my band, he bought him and his girlfriend came and now they're like huge fans of my band. He probably went home that night, looked it up, and was like, ⁓ this is kind of fucking great. Became a fan. Like you never know. You gotta talk about it. You have to promote. Well, that's great advice too, because it's so easy to like, you know, because you're when you're in a band, when you're making music, you're making art, you're putting yourself out there, and it's really easy. to fall into a pit where you're just like you're scared of rejection or whatever. So you don't want to like put yourself out there too much. You kinda want to hedge or whatever. But you're right, like, you know, people aren't gonna just discover that somehow. Like it's the enthusiasm. It's that commitment. Yeah, I think that's awesome. That's so good. Yeah. That's such a great kind of unique quality. It reminds me of, you know, being in middle school age or whatever and you don't want to tell anybody like, ⁓ I really like this band or movie or whatever So you always kinda start with like, What do you think about blah blah blah? And when somebody's like, Not for me, you're like, Yeah, yeah, same thing. Me neither, me neither I don't I don't But to be able to go like you know, I don't actually care what you think. I just want to let you know that you're missing out by not being a cat bite fan because we're the best fucking band around. And then having them go, ⁓ okay, well shit, it seems like I might be missing out. It's a it's a great way to sell somebody. That band is someone's favorite band. It works. Right on. Well, thanks so much, Tim, for taking the time to talk to us today and for being so open about your experience and your journey. And ⁓ I hope I think it'll help people. I hope so. Yeah. Thank you so much for having me. First interview of the year. All right. Well, thank you so much, Tim. Thanks, Tim. Thank you. Well, that was great. Talking to Tim was a damn pleasure. Yep. Yeah. He's a great guy. It's a I will say he jumped right in with ska jokes and I appreciated that because, you know, way to break the ice with a couple of funny ones. ⁓ in the spirit of that, I found a couple more ska jokes I'd like to tell you quickly. Please absolutely ⁓ how is a ska band the opposite of a rhinoceros? Horns in the back, asshole up front? thank you. I gotta I I I left the really bad ones out. There was like thirty that just ended with pick it up, pick it up, pick it up. But I didn't do any of them. I found the ones that didn't say pick it up. Okay, ⁓ why did the ska guitarist take twice as long to masturbate? He only knows upstrokes. Yeah, it's pretty rough. Pretty rough. But as ska jokes go, at least it wasn't a pick it up, pick it up, pick it up. Although the pick it up joke that I liked best was ⁓ the worst one probably, which really made me laugh, which was why is it great to go out to dinner with a ska band? Because they always pick up the checks. That sounds like a rough that sounds like AI. Like that's bad. Yeah, it's pretty rough. Yeah. But I I saw it and I was like Okay. All right. Oi oi AI. Yeah. Well that made me happy. I like I I was really into ska for I don't know, a good while. Like I went through like I don't even know if I'd call it like a phase, because I feel like that kind of like diminishes the fact that like I still like ska and like don't have a problem with it. I just stopped listening to it like all the time for a while. But I definitely owned three or four pairs of plaid pants. ⁓ and I had many a colored hair. and yeah, I was I was, you know. Going to shows where I could dance more than Mosh for a few years there. And I sort of appreciated that late nineties revival. It like it took me in and it was good vibes. And I appreciated that. I think that's kind of like a lot of our experience. Like, I mean, I was I was into ska, right? Like, and I I I went deep on it. And I mean, I like you said, I don't want to call it a phase, but like I think a lot of us around that time were, you know, kind of got into it. And, you know, there's certain bands that like I will still put on and listen to regularly. Like you know, Op Ivy or whatever, right? ⁓ and my partner Sion, like, she has like been a lot l ⁓ lifelong ⁓ ska fan. So for a lot of people, like, you know, it's a, you know, an ongoing thing. But for a lot of us, I think it was a a a kind of musical moment, right? Yeah, which is interesting because I think that's probably third wave when like when we were getting into it. And maybe we went back like I I know me and some of my friends, I had a like a friend group that all got really into ska. And they definitely dug back in and like got super into the specials and then like went further back and we're like listening to like 60s ska stuff, like the the roots shit and like got into it. I liked some of that. And then then it turned into like listening to reggae, and then we were playing hacky sack, and then you know, it had to go somewhere else at certain point. but I think if In my memory for like people my age, it died when swing music can kind of came back. The big band revival. The big band revival was sort of like we've taken this the wrong way. It's gone too far. Like your wallet chain is long, your pants are baggy. Yeah. And your hat brim is just so big. Yeah. What was the the Brian Setzer? Brian Setzer Orchestra. Yeah. ⁓ that all of that Definitely just dropped everything off a cliff. Yeah. It just kind of made everything a parody of itself. I don't know. It just yeah. Yeah. For me it felt like that, and it probably didn't coincide, but in my mind, it coincided with the Mighty Mighty Boss tones getting really popular. And it was just kind of this moment where like kind of the the elements I enjoyed the least about ska became mainstream. And then everyone was like, I love ska. And I was like, but you've never been to The little shows where everyone was you weren't at the thing and like you've only been to warp tour. That's that's your ska. And I'm not enjoying this anymore. You're taking away the cool thing. You're like, I like ska. I love Sublime. And it's like, Then we were all just gatekeeping ska. I know, I know. We were. Okay. We were, yeah. I was I was like 17. I was gatekeeping anything I could. It's fine. It's mine. I'm I have I found a cool thing. Let me have my cool thing and feel cool. It's I feel like my ⁓ ska evolution was like being a teenager or really into MXPX and then seeing them play with Five Iron Frenzy and being like, ⁓ well that's really cool. And then I like that was probably my first ever ska band was like Five Iron Five Iron Frenzy and then ⁓ into like high school and people introducing me to like Op Ivy and Rancid and ⁓ then things really kind of went south as it got into this like big band, whatever revival era. ⁓ but now like Catbite is a band that I just discovered in what, 2022 or 2023 maybe. and this there's this whole new wave of just like awesome ska bands and sometimes not as horn forward or whatever, but ⁓ s watching them come through town and seeing other bands that they're playing with and ⁓ Tim top talked about Bad Time Records, like every ska band on that that ⁓ label is just an absolute blast. Like watching Kill Lincoln play live is yeah. It's it feels so good again. And that was part of it is I remember going to the old firehouse in Redmond a lot ⁓ and seeing like engine fifty four And the investigators and Gabo Blank on, but there's like a few dozen bands that were just like ska bands that were just playing at all ages shows constantly. And it what I really enjoyed about it is it would be like an eight-piece band on stage playing really tight. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ and playing really tight. There was so much talent in that scene. And there, yeah, there was so much talent in that scene. And I loved punk, but it's fair to say that like even the good punk was hit or miss with like how much like. refined like music yeah was happening. Like sometimes and that wasn't necessarily what made it good either. Like some of my favorite punk bands were off totally bands that I just loved. And some of my favorite punk bands were really great musicians too. But like there was something going on in the Ska scene that was definitely like, ⁓ there's like a really killer trombone player up here and that guitar player's like shredding and the drummers like playing that this crazy beat like super fast. And there's a bunch of harmony happening on stage. And like Yeah, I I I really loved it. I s I still yeah. Op Ivy I still go back to. I just I think about a month and a half ago, I for whatever reason was doing dishes and threw on Losing Streak by Less Than Jake while I was doing my headphones. And I had like a sense memory in my body of being thirteen and visiting family ⁓ in Baltimore. And all I had with me was like a walkman with like two tapes, maybe, and one of them was losing streak, and I had just gotten it. And so I listened to it like over and over again for like a week because I had like nothing to do but have like listen to music and walk around Baltimore like in the suburbs where my family lived there. And I was just at that age where like I didn't want to hang out with any of them. Yeah. ⁓ so I was just wandering around listening to this like ska core band over and over again. And I threw that album on while doing dishes and I was just like, ⁓ God, this is so great. It's just the it made me feel like I was a 15 year old again. I wanted to jump up and down and s like This is a great album with really, really good harmony ⁓ singing and like ⁓ incredible hooks. But I get I like when I listened to Cat Bite, I was like, ⁓ wow, like I got some of that feeling again, right? Like that excitement and that energy. So yeah. Is it fourth wave? I think I heard someone say fourth wave the other day. I love that. I think that's great. Yeah. Is that it's coming back and now we're we're we're in the fourth wave of ska and maybe it's time to I don't know, get our boots and our And our plaid pants back out, or not because we're in our forties, and that'd be a little bit weird of us. But but maybe, maybe, maybe we're there and maybe that's a moment that ⁓ music's gonna have right now. And I don't know, I'm I'm here for it. In my mind's eye, studs and safety pins everywhere. Just everywhere. Yeah. But if we keep it in our mind's eye, our children will appreciate that of us. Yeah. Yeah. I've my son has definitely reached an age where like it's really easy for me to embarrass him whether I try hard or not. I used to try and it was kind of fun, and now sometimes I'm not trying and he gets embarrassed and I'm like, ⁓ that doesn't feel as good. That's not as fun for me. I'm just embarrassing. No, I'm I'm just an embarrassing one who tried I'll I would have to buy some 'cause I don't have them and if I did, I'm positive they wouldn't I have a couple of cl some clothing that fits from back then. It wasn't those pants. Maybe that's the fashion of the fourth wave. It's just ⁓ things that don't fit anymore. It's like that's clothes that embarrass your children. If you go outside and kids don't turn away and cover their faces, ⁓ god. Are you even pug? Are you even pug? something else Tim said ⁓ that I wanted to touch on for my own sake. We talked a little bit about East Coast and West Coast touring, and he repped East Coast pretty hard. I I believe he said the words fuck you in there somewhere about the West Coast. Respectfully. Or at least that's how I felt respectfully. Yeah. And I just want to say that I give East Coast all the credit in the world for being an easier place to tour. ⁓ what happened? And that's what I brought up. That's what I said. Was that it's a it's easier to tour on the East Coast and I could think of w I spent some time and I thought about it and the other thing that I could think of that the East Coast has is sandwiches. They've got sandwiches on this. They make better sandwiches than East Coast. Yeah, there's a lot of f I mean lots of food. I don't even know about pizza. I spent some time in New York and like the pizza's good, don't get me wrong, but like the whole world knows how to make New York style pizza now. Like it's not I don't know, but I do feel like I've had the best sandwiches of my life in the Midwest and the East Coast. Sure. ⁓ And you know, they don't know what the fuck they're doing with Mexican food and that's important to me. So it doesn't matter. The sandwiches don't matter if they don't have tacos properly. ⁓ handled. No, but I mean you're absolutely right. Like, I mean, I remember when Speaker Speaker would tour, like we would stay 'cause I was my my ex-wife, like her family lived in New Jersey and they had a house there. And so like, you know, we would basically stay there and just do day trips to every one of our shows in that metro area. And it was great, right? 'Cause we could just like come home at night. Have a place to sleep and then go back out the next day to go to the next ⁓ go to the next show. It was amazing. Yeah. And it's nice to be able to play in a city and then drive 40 minutes to another city and play. as opposed to here where you're like, okay, we drove five hours from Seattle to the closest city, Portland. And then after that, we'd like to drive to another major city and play. And that'll be twelve hours to San Francisco. You know? And it's like, Jesus Christ. And then you want to go from there to LA. What's that? Another seven? Something like that? Like it's Yeah. I I probably got some of my numbers wrong, but it's brutal and I don't remember enjoying you ended up playing a lot of small towns to make it work so you could stop at like Reading and and Weed. Totally Wairika or something. Yeah, like there was maybe a benefit of ⁓ some of those smaller towns in the middle that didn't have like proper venues. You had some fantastic house shows and I don't remember exactly where we were. Somebody somewhere maybe in like Eastern Washington or might have been like on the border to Idaho something. ⁓ and we played a house show where the house had their power shut off, but the racetrack, right? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And so it might have maybe it was like Missoula. I think it was Missoula. It was Missoula, I'm pretty sure. Moscow, Idaho or something. Anyway, the they ran extension cords from the Empty neighbors house, like the neighbors who were on vacation or whatever. They just went in, pulled out some extension cords and ran them over. And ⁓ you know, that makes it worth going to whatever that town that I can't exactly remember was. But I would take East Coast any day over there. Yeah, when it when it comes to touring, they've got to speak. But other than that, ⁓ best coast. Just saying. West Coast is the best coast. Just saying. But ⁓ I don't know. I'm hoping someday, maybe after we've recorded a lot of these episodes, maybe we do like a super cut. Tour stories. That's just like tour stories that people told us over these episodes. There's so many good ones. We've all we've got a few, but I I I'm always excited to hear them from other people about the weird house shows and weird fucked up stuff that happens. I had one where someone stole one of our guitarist guitars ⁓ at the show. And it was like a costume guitar he like built for like years. It was like an irreplaceable babe. And then the next morning, one of the opening bands called us and was like, This guy who was at the show last night was a friend of a friend of ours, and he was at our house that night. And we didn't realize till this morning he was like bragging that he stole one of your guitar and thought it was funny. And we have it and we're so sorry. And we kicked him out and we've got your guitar if you want to drive back and pick it up. And we had to drive, I think, from Sacramento back to San Francisco and get the guitar. But we got it back, which was kind of nice. But like just the weird shit that happens on tours and the ups and downs of like one minute it's awful, and the next minute it's great again. And yeah, it's kind of crazy. I'd love to. We should do a supercut. Yeah. No, I like that idea. Yeah. another another moment that I really enjoyed talking to Tim was when he was talking about selling band themed candy bars where he just like bought candy bars and rewrapped them in like his friend's band's like logo and sold them to like, I don't know, raise money for the band or what I don't know what it was just to market or what. But it made me think of like what's the weirdest merch or like marketing gimmick you've done in band? I can think of one if you need a minute. Go for it. I I I have an idea, but go for it. I have I was in a band in Dickity Nineteen Dick No ⁓ 2000. This was probably 2000, 2001. And it was a band called The Hit. And we had like a logo that involved like a bullet hole with blood trickling down from it, because the hit. Okay. and ⁓ I th our lead singer, I think, was the one who did it. He ordered a whole bunch of like women's cotton black panties with our logo on the front of it that just said the hit with blood trickling down from it. And I just immediately saw it and was like ⁓ buddy. Buddy, do you did you just buy bloody panty merch? And he was like, I guess. I was like he's like, I thought it'd be cool to like see chicks wearing it. I was like, you're never ever in your whole life gonna see, even if they wear it, it's not gonna be in front of you. It's not that's not how this works. People don't show up to meet it's not no like you've you've made a f a fatal error in thinking about both women and merchants. Yeah, that's that's rough. Yeah. There's no good. I don't know if we ever sold any of that. I left that band, ⁓ not by my own accord shortly after that. Well, they couldn't afford you after they spent all the money on the underwear. No, those guys were all in their like mid thirties and ⁓ it's fine. Those guys were all in their mid thirties, and I was in my early tw I was like twenty. ⁓ wow. ⁓ and so it was weird, a weird vibe anyway. And I remember feeling weird about it at the time and not feeling like I made sense in that band. I was a big fan of the band before I got invited to join. They were like one of my favorite bands. And I got asked to join the band. And it was just weird. Like I wasn't that good of a guitarist at the time. like I was Barely hanging. I didn't really like have any business being in the band. But it was a big deal for me. Totally. ⁓ yeah, I got invited to be in my favorite band. Yeah. ⁓ and I think it was like my first real band. Like I had played a lot of solo shows and been in some like shitty garage bands that never really did anything. Yeah. But I had opened up an acoustic show solo for their lead singer, and he was like, liked liked my palm muting or something. And was like, I need a guitarist, and you seem to have friends. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe maybe they'll come to my shows. And yeah, it was a weird, it was a don't meet your heroes kind of vibe for me. Yeah. Anyway, merch. Do you have a ⁓ merch? So I I was ⁓ if in case we don't cut this out, we've we've lost Jason, so it's just kidding me right now. He'll rejoice, I'm sure. ⁓ so it we it wasn't merch, but we actually like the speaker speaker full length. It was the artwork was by Jesse Ledoux, ⁓ who did like Art for the Shins and ⁓ I think like Crystal Skulls and like a bunch of other like, you know, whatever. ⁓ but he does these like kind of very surrealistic kind of characters and he did one of those for the cover of our record. And a friend of mine made like a stuffed plushy version of that. ⁓ it never became merch, but I kind of really wanted it to be. Not that I like I don't know what anybody would do with these little guys. ⁓ but that was ⁓ ⁓ that was great. But yeah, I mean, other than that, I think we just did the bands I was in just did your standard like, you know, shirts and stickers and pens and that sort of thing. So Yeah. I mean I think that's the way to go. I when we were with Post Harbor, we joked around about there was always a running gag in the band that we were gonna put out all these CDs and they were just gonna be coasters. Like that they're just gonna use as coasters. So we talked about at one point about making coasters with our band name on that said said our band name and then underneath it said thanks for not using our CD. That's a good that's clever. I like that. I like that. Yeah, which I thought was kind of cute. Yeah, yeah. I don't know. I've seen some weird ones. Yeah. Yeah. That band The Hit was bizarre. There was we played one show and this wasn't a merch thing, but just like a weird gimmick, where our lead singer again, weird dude, was into wrestling ⁓ and similarly into gimmicks because of that. And at one show he played, he decided that he wanted to light off a whole bunch of like blackjack firecrackers on his chest. So his idea was to get like, you know, a big string of them around his neck and have that just kind of hanging around his neck. So he planned this out. This wasn't just like a spur-of-the-moment, like, ⁓ I found this vest. I'm gonna let Right. So he planned it out. He like went on Amazon and like I have it. Found the firecrackers. He talked to his doctor about it, and his doctor was like, This is an awful idea. Do not do this. He's like, What do you know, doctor? Yeah. And so what he did to kind of satiate what his his doctor's opinion was. He built like a metal under his shirt vest thing to wear. And he wore it. Don't worry, doctor, I'll also be wearing an oven. It'll be fine. Yeah, exactly. So he built a protective device was like, this'll be cool. So he's got this giant string of firecrackers around his neck that he throws on during our last song. And right as like I'm playing a guitar solo at the end, like a shitty, you know, punk band like blues solo, because that was all I could do when I was twenty. ⁓ And I'm playing this blues solo. And the drums are going crazy and stuff. And he pulls out a lighter, lights these firecrackers off, and there's a recording of it, and you can just hear this going off while we're playing. And it was people clapped or whatever. Woo, you know, it was I think it was a Capitol Hill Block Party. ⁓ and it was fun. And it was kind of neat. One of the firecrackers fell off of the string, dropped down between his guitar and his crotch, and went off. And apparently seared off most of the hair above his business. Yeah. ⁓ so you know, stupid gimmick, bad idea. This same guy once jumped off of a for a music video we shot, jumped off of a garage roof through a folding table. Again, into wrestling. Yeah. And was just like, I like gimmicks and wrestling and I want to be that, but also in this punk band. Wow. So Jason, you ⁓ you missed the setup for all that, but Kenny was talking about an ⁓ meeting he had earlier today. Back in the law office. No, no, no. I was ⁓ the way it started is I was talking about the candy bar sales. ⁓ that Tim was mentioning selling chocolate bars repurposed with with ⁓ his friends' bands. So we just got on the topic of like weird merch and then yeah, yeah. Yeah, we were talking about weird merch ideas and what like the stupidest kind of merch we've ever sold was and stuff like that. So I don't know. Maybe we'll edit edit. Together. Crotch firecrackers. Yeah. And that led to like silly gimmicks and shit like that. Something else I I I really liked that ⁓ Tim was talking about that that I connected with a lot was just kind of like doing stuff early on, like being dumb basically, and like kind of capitalizing on that, right? Like not knowing that you're not supposed to do certain things, like whatever he said he called like tried to like. call up social distortion or whatever. Or like ⁓ was it social distortion? Yeah. Bad religion or was it I think it was bad religion. It was whatever. Like, but just, you know, like I I remember like very early on ⁓ you know being in bands and like I was just trying to book as many shows as possible like around Seattle. And I think I had like three shows in a week or two weeks booked. And one of the promoters was like, hey, you're not supposed to do this. You understand? Like we're trying to get people to come out to these things. If you and I was like, ⁓ yeah, no that That makes sense. Sorry, that's on me. Like, you know, but like I I still, you know, am kept awake sometimes some nights thinking about those sort of interactions. But you know, whatever. That silly teenager didn't know about blackout periods. But like, you know, whatever. Like it's just it's but, you know, obviously it worked out for Tim, like just kind of that naivete of just being able to kind of like, well, I'm just gonna go try it out and talk to people and see what happens and it worked out for him, which is great. I think you miss 100% of the shots you don't take. Michael Scott. Michael Scott. I think that's one of the most impressive things about Tim is that it there really seems to be a like, ⁓ I'm just gonna do this thing that I'm maybe like ill-equipped to do. But even from like not knowing how to play guitar until you said, what, 18 or whatever? ⁓ and and and just Getting grounded and learning to play and and all of that turning into what this is and everything, just that ⁓ his sticktuativeness, I don't even know what to call it. That that spirit, that attitude is just ⁓ it's impressive. It's pretty great. And it made me think about how yeah, he d and talking about like learning guitar kind of on the fly while grounded. And he also mentioned, ⁓ I don't know if it was in the same breath or later, but kind of reflecting on that, talked about How he is often insecure about his guitar playing because of of the way he learned and kind of the how late he came to it and stuff. And it made me think about like how many musicians I've known and worked with. I've worked with plenty of musicians that were schooled in music and went to college for it and are very good and they could tell you about music in five different ways. but I've also played with a lot of really good musicians who, you know, learn to play themselves or from listening to music or on some piece of shit guitar and you know it's there's people come at it from such different directions and I think there's no wrong way to do it. And it brought a question up to mind. I got in a really heated argument with a bandmate once who was an educated musician and they had been, they had gone to school for four years and had a degree ⁓ in music. And they made like a comment in passing once that really rub me the wrong way that was essentially equated to like, well I'm a better musician than you because I went to school for music. And I was like in my head, like, well, no, you're not. You know, in my head, I'm like, I play music with you, and no, you're not. and you know, I that was me being shitty and defensive in my head, but the argument I kind of brought up was like, well, A, and I didn't bring this up in the argument, was I went to school for music too. I just don't talk about it all the time, and I didn't and I ended up getting a degree in something else. But like, ⁓ but my argument was like, you went to school for four years for music. And while you were doing that, and before you were doing that, I was touring and booking shows and marketing a band and playing with, you know, 20 different bands and learning, learning how to actually be a musician and deal with what it means to work in music and to front a band or to run a band or manage a band or how to get shows. I was making connections. I was meeting people, I was being part of that community. And you were in school, like learning about music and like. I don't feel like it makes and I what made me really mad is I was like, and at no point in time did I ever try and tell you that you being in school made you less of a musician, yeah, less valid or less important. And it hurt my feelings and I was mad about it because I was like, how dare you just why would you even say that? Like it's unnecessary to like, it's not a competition. We don't need to compete in music, but it did make me it it left a taste in my mouth of wanting people to all feel like regardless of how they got there, it's okay if they're doing it. And they like it, and there are people who enjoy their music, even if there aren't, but especially if there are people who like listening to your music, you win. Like you're doing the thing. You're a musician. Congratulations. You're in the club. There's no fucking card you have to show anyone. Like you're here. Like I don't know. No, absolutely. I think that the ⁓ the there there was like a time I remember when it was almost like uncool to have ⁓ like any sort of formal training in music, it was like, ⁓ no, it's like, you know, you're you're supposed to come at it raw, like just figure it out and like do your own thing and like that's what being an artist is. And like I I don't think that I mean like I think that obviously works for some people as we talked during the episode. Like you know streets were my teacher. I I mean I think there's a lot of value in having a music education, but you know, obviously I think it's it's somewhere in the middle that that that that is ideal. But like, you know, I I think the point is not gatekeeping. Like however you end up at it, it's all valid. Right. Like we're all artists, right? Doing our own following our own path. Right. I mean, I think if you take it seriously and you work hard at it and you're a good student, regardless of who you're learning from or what you're learning from, I think you get there. And I think that you can go to music school, not take it seriously, not work hard and not be a good student and come away being a shitty musician. Yep. ⁓ and probably graduate. Yep. That happens. ⁓ but I also think that you can Be a good student and work hard and take it seriously, whether you're at Berkeley or in your basement. And if you figure out where to learn from and somewhere to learn from and you are a good student, you're gonna get good. Totally. be hanging out with somebody, they'll be like, ⁓ have ⁓ you ever Put your fingers like this, that's called a B seven. And that's usually ⁓ okay, cool. That one sounds neat after the one that looks like a E. I'm pretty sure if if they can do it, then the rest of us can. I love the music knowledge. The Beatles can do it, anyone can. Yeah. I that's the thing is I I spent a long time post school learning from musicians who were educated and taught me a lot about how to communicate better. Yeah. And I'm grateful for those tools too. ⁓ yeah, for sure. Yep. ⁓ but I don't know. It's a little bit of all of it. And you're right. I heard Paul talking though about how he felt like him and John were more valid artists than Ringo and George because John was an artist who had gone to art school and Paul had studied literature. And so they were knowledgeable artists, you know. Like they had they'd they'd they'd gone through, they had something they were pulling from in their writing and stuff like that. So, you know. Maybe school makes you a pompous asshole no matter what kind of school. A little a little a little knowledge is a lot of bullshit. Regardless of your level of schooling, just don't be a dick. Yeah. That's right. I think that's right. And that was my main thing I got frustrated by was like, That's I love that you went to school for that. Why why did it make you an asshole? That's unnecessary. Like majored in minored in asshole. Yeah. I know that school where they have that minor. Another thing I really loved that Tim talked about was ⁓ playing, I think it was the Chameleon Club in Lancaster he was talking about, where he's talking about playing in just like a little venue. ⁓ and like see or seeing a band for the first time at like a small club. Yep. And like what it feels like when you go to that first like cool fucking little show. where maybe you've been to a couple arenas and seen some bands you heard on the radio. But then you end up at like an all ages club or a punk show or a teen center or a church basement somewhere ⁓ that's like packed with like a bunch of other teenagers moshing and the band's having a really great time and the sound is just okay and it's like dimly lit and it's hot and stinky. And you're just like, ⁓ yeah, I belong here. This is perfect. This is perfect. This is this is why. This is this right here is why. Yep. and I feel like we're gonna keep hearing that story over and over again because it's Yeah. It's just the truth. Like it's I don't know, maybe it all in its best case scenario, maybe it ends up at thousand person theaters or three thousand person, you know, ⁓ venues. But that's where you fall in love with it, right? Like that that you fall in love with it in the church basement or the house or the little ages teens. That that sort of shared that community, that shared energy, just that like I don't know, that that that ⁓ it's it's a very intimate relationship that you end up like realizing exists with an audience that they're you know, it's I don't know, it's It's very magical and and yeah, that's when you fall in love with it. So Yeah, if you have a place like that in your community or a place like that in your life that you go to, that you support, that you and your friends hang out at, where you go see bands that you like or where your friends' bands play at, nurture the flesh out of Yep. Farm it, you know, like keep taking care of it, keep loving it, keep making sure it succeeds. Don't steal from it, you know, be be a good fucking steward of that place 'cause it is everything. It means the world. Yep. So Absolutely. I wanted to I wanted to stress that ⁓ because I I love how Tim talked about it very passionately about those shows. And he talked about later in his career, ⁓ more recently, coming back and playing at one of his favorite venues that like he always wanted to play at and selling it out as a headliner and like making his own lighting rig and doing it on his terms and like making it like going all out to play the cool show that he had always dreamed of playing and having it happen and like you know, and it wasn't Fucking ⁓ Madison Square Garden. Yeah. You know, like it was it was the cool venue in his town. I I really appreciated the way that he kind of saw the silver lining in the missing out on the shows during COVID and how that you know, I think he said they might have just kind of got like swept up in the noise at the time, but taking that time to sort of work on new stuff, but build up their popularity, where at the time those shows that had been on pre sale for a month or two and maybe sold a couple tickets, but then post COVID, after they'd put the work into, you know, promoting themselves, whatever, then selling out the show in three hours, I think he said, for the the release show. ⁓ that's such a fucking good I mean but that was something that really blew me away. He was so just relentlessly, disgustingly positive. Yeah. Like and it was amazing. It was j I mean, I's I'm joking, obvious. But I mean like, you know, like it just No, it's sickened. We were all disgusted. No, like to you know, so many people like I we all know so many mus musicians and artists who were like COVID was an existential threat for them, not just because of the the disease itself, but just like their you know, the way the how they made their living, their careers, right? Yeah, like shows weren't happening, people didn't whatever. But he just like was like, this is a great opportunity to build buzz. And it's like, God damn it, dude, that's amazing. Like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's fucking beautiful. I also really liked hearing him talk about their Gaslight Anthem tour. Yeah. Like supporting Gaslight. And a ⁓ how Gaslight Anthem fans only like Gaslight Anthem and Bruce Springsteen. And that's it. That's it. ⁓ legal. Which of course, if you're out there and you're listening to this and you're a Gaslight Anthem fan. Fuck you. No, but seriously I'm sh respectfully, I'm sure you I'm sure you like other music. And I he was joking. but I loved what he was saying about being in a situation where like and it'll happen, it'll happen to a lot of bands where you finally kind of get a break where you get to like support a major tour or what what certainly in your career would constitute a major tour at that point and for a lot of bands touring to support a band that was the size of gaslight at that time, like or now probably. ⁓ would have been a huge deal. And then getting out there and looking out at that huge crowd and realizing that they like don't give a fuck about you. They don't know who you are. Yeah. They're here for the other band and like they're just gonna try and get through you and like hope that you don't play for too long because they want to see the band they came to see. And like having that I love how we talked about having that awakening and then also like getting through it and going like, Okay, well, let's fucking rally and like play for us and have a good time and Do it for why we do it, not because the crowd loves it. Well, and the thing that he was talking to about like finding that one person who is into it. Right. And just deciding like this is all for that that person, right? Yeah. You know, and I think little Timmy in the crowd with the crutches and the little hat on. I mean, I d I do think it's a theme though. It's like, you y we all play those those difficult shows and like having those ways of like kind of focusing on the thing that will keep you putting on a good show and not just like give up and be like, well, this sucks. Right. Yeah. Yeah. I've I've done that too. And like fucking didn't feel good for me either. Like I you know, didn't make me feel any better to be a fucking bummer about it. Like Yeah. You know? And I think if you can get through it and I'm sure they won some people over too by like turning that turning that corner and just like having a good time up there. They played better. They probably sounded better. Totally. And there's some people in the crowd that were like, these guys are having a fucking blast and I like gaslight, but little do all these other people know. I fucking love a good ska band and I'm so glad this is happening. Yeah. And then they went to their merch table and asked them if they've ever heard of No Doubt. Yep. Do you know that band? Which is Sure, that's fun for them. Then I bet Save Ferris is the other one they get asked about. I mean, we've been going on for a while. So I mean but like I I I don't want us to finish this conversation without talking about the the thing that I j I love the most, which was his his comment about like, you know, like his advice or whatever about like just Be like start your favorite band. Be your favorite band. Be your own. Like that was fucking amazing. That was so good. I have that written in big bold letters in front of me. Yeah. Yeah. Start or join or be in the kind of band that plays the kind of music that you want to listen to, that you want to talk about, that you want to be your favorite band. And if you can be your favorite band, then you can promote it. Yep. And you can do it without any shame or any bashfulness or any Shynish, you don't have to be coy. ⁓ my band, come see us if want. I don't know, it's not a big deal. Fuck all that. Be in a band that's so good that you like love telling people to come see you and you can confidently say you're gonna love it. Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ I think as cheesy as it may sound, like that sort of enthusiasm is contagious. And when and you can just like convince yourself like I'm doing the best thing and you should be so lucky to hear my band, and then other people just start to be like, Wow, you r I abs you're right, you got me in. Yeah. Yeah. I feel like it's and I it's so easy to get self conscious because I imagine myself doing that and being like, I would look like I had a shitty nigga in and I was trying to sell you something. ⁓ but you know, if you mean it, you mean it and people can tell. And if you you know, so be in that band. I mean I even I even felt it just in the conversation with him. Like his enthusiasm was absolutely contagious. I walked away just like, fuck yeah. Like I didn't even know what about. I was just like, Yeah. America. Well, like That's how Kenny got kicked off the podcast. You guys you guys are Patreon. No, you're right. It's be it's a beautiful thing. ⁓ that kind of enthusiasm is infectious and I was really grateful to get to talk to Tim about it and to talk to someone who was making it work because the music's good, because they wrote good music and because they're working hard and they're taking it seriously and caring about it, but also because it's obvious that he loves it and has a great fucking attitude about being an artist and ⁓ a working musician and Yeah. That's what it's really about. Anyway, there. Absolutely. All right. Well that note. Yeah. This has been Mirror Immortals. We're gonna talk to more musicians. ⁓ tune in next week and ⁓ thanks again to Tim Hildebrand. Peace. See y'all later. Yes.