Sarah Jakes Roberts on Finding Your Power

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Sarah Jakes Roberts is redefining what it means to be
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a modern woman of faith. She's a best-selling author, speaker, founder, entrepreneur, philanthropist, wife,
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and mother. And at her core, she's a leader aiming
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to inspire thought, growth, and change. Sarah followed in the
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footsteps of her father, Bishop T.D. Jakes, to become a
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co-pastor at the Potter's House Church in Dallas, using her
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voice to spread messages of compassion and love. She's the
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founder of Woman Evolve, a multimedia platform that provides women
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with tools, support, and guidance, empowering them to lead fulfilling
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and impactful lives. Sarah was named to the 2023 Time
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100 Next list as an emerging thought leader as her
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influence continues to grow. Sarah's most recent book, Power Moves,
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Ignite Your Confidence and Become a Force, invites readers to
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reclaim and redefine their power in order to live an
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authentic life. Through her sermons, books, podcasts and events, Sarah
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is breaking barriers, breaking glass ceilings and encouraging positive and
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lasting change. Our conversation left me feeling uplifted, inspired, and
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ready to re-examine what I view as power. And I
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hope it'll do the same for you. I'm Hoda Kotb.
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Welcome to my podcast, Making Space. Making Space Okay, first
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of all, I am excited, honored, and thrilled to be
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sitting across from you. So a friend of mine was like,
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come here. I got the TV on. You got to
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see this person. And I go, who is it?
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Who is it?
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And you were preaching, and I was mesmerized. And I
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didn't know anything. I did not connect any dots. I said,
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this woman is all by herself. There's something incredible. And
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she goes, do you know who she is? And I said,
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tell me. I'm dying to know. I mean, how do
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I not know? And then they told me who you were.
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And I've been a fan ever since.
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Can you tell me who I am?
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When I heard the name Sarah Jakes Roberts, I said, boy,
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I bet those are some big shoes to fill. And
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I wondered about that as a little girl. So let's
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just start there. You know, you grow up in this
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home with this very famous father, T.D. Jakes, who everybody knows.
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A lot of expectations, I would imagine, on the children of.
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How did you handle... that type of life as a
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little girl?
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I was really confused growing up because there was nothing
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in me that felt like I was even capable of
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connecting to who my dad was as it related to ministry.
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And then growing up in church, when you're the preacher's kid,
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they're like, oh, you must be in the choir.
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Well, I can't sing. And they're like, oh, you must dance.
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I don't have rhythm.
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No.
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The more that I marked those boxes off, I think
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as a child, I really began to question, like, do
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I fit in this at all? Like, maybe God made
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a mistake because my sister can sing.
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My brothers can sing.
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They dance.
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Like, they were all, they all had a space. And
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I kind of just floated around.
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So what did you do? Like, what were your Sundays
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and other days like?
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We were at Sunday through Saturday. We were at church.
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So we would go to.
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School in the morning, get picked up from school, and
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then we'd go to church. My parents were building houses.
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When I was growing up. And so a lot of
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their time was spent trying to figure out what does
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it mean when 1,500 people join your church one Sunday
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and then they keep coming. And so we were up there,
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you know, running the halls of the church while they
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were figuring it out. On Sundays, we'd get there very early.
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We'd have breakfast there. My dad would preach. I would
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probably find a few other kids that didn't fit sitting
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in the back of the church.
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And we would play games and ask questions.
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And I think in many ways, try to create a
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sense of belonging within our context. that we didn't necessarily
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feel in the larger context in which we were living.
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Did you talk to your dad about it or your
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mom about that, not fitting?
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I don't think I had the language for it.
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Yeah, you were little.
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You were just a kid.
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I was just a kid.
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I didn't even know what it was. I just knew
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I didn't fit, but I didn't know that there was
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something that could be done about that.
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Did you feel as a kid seen by your parents?
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No, but— I think a lot of it has to
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do less with even who they were and more to
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do with our culture and like kids are seen and
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not heard. And so maybe seen, but definitely not heard,
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you know? And so I think that we were really
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programmed to believe that like, keep your thoughts to yourself,
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keep your feelings to yourself and try and not cause
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any trouble.
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Just don't rock the boat.
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Stay out of the way.
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It's so funny because I was at a retreat a
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while ago and one of the people asked me, why
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are you in broadcasting? And I said, I actually don't know.
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I don't love being in front of people, but I
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do like the work. And they said, well, tell me
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about your dad. And they said, did he see you?
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And I said, it's funny because I don't think so.
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He was working and doing all the things that dads did.
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And she goes, oh, that makes sense. And I go,
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what makes sense? She goes, well, now everyone sees you. Oh, wow.
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So sometimes you defy or you go the opposite way.
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So you can say like, do you see me now?
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I'm in front of everybody. Do you see me now?
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So it kind of gives you that little sense of
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maybe now you'll see me. And my dad passed when
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I was in college. But that feeling doesn't go away.
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It's like the itch you can't scratch. It's like maybe next,
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maybe if I do one more thing or one more thing,
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realizing that that's actually not the way life works these days.
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Right.
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Who were you trying as a young girl to live
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up to? What standards were laid before you as a
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young girl?
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Well, in addition to growing up in a family of faith, so,
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you know, you've got to be a good church person,
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you know, whatever that means.
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Don't make any mistakes. Do everything perfectly.
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I think I was also raised at the height of
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purity culture where a girl's virtue was really connected to
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her body in a different way than we see, you know,
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secular culture promoting purity. It still comes down to a
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woman's body. But in church, it's like you got to
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protect it. Don't even touch it. And so I think
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I was programmed with these messages. Your body has this worth,
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has this value. You have to preserve it and you
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need to be perfect. And there's no conversation at all
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about what it means to be a teenager, to not fit,
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to need a sense of belonging, to have hormones changing.
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Where the music is talking about sex and all of
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these different things. And so I was really confused at
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what my standard was supposed to be. And I think
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because I felt like I didn't fit within church, I
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think culture, music, television set a different standard for me
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that felt more attainable.
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So as a young girl, you got pregnant at 14.
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And I can only, like 14 for a million reasons
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is the most awkward time of life, period.
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Yeah.
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How did you navigate that as a little kid? You
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were literally a child trying to navigate these waters.
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And, you know, I was 13 when I got pregnant
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and 14 when I had my son. I didn't even
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have like a full teen year without having to grapple
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with this reality of what it means to be a
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mother while also trying to figure out what it means
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to be a teenager. And what's so funny is that
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when I first got pregnant, I thought the worst thing
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that could happen is that I'm going to tell my
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parents and I'm going to be grounded. I'm like, this
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is going to be terrible. This is going to be
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the biggest problem. I'm going to get in trouble. And
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when I didn't get in trouble, it helped me.
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What did they say?
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I think that their grief was just present.
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Oh, wow.
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There was a grief that I didn't even understand fully.
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And I think that they were grieving how— And I
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think it wasn't until I told them that I realized
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that my world was going to need to change in
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order to exist.
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Incorporate this new life.
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So what happened with school, with life, with all the things?
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So fortunately, by that time in their ministry, they'd gotten
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to a stage where they realized, we probably should try
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homeschooling because we need to be at the church.
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They have these activities.
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So I was already homeschooled prior to me getting pregnant.
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Someone told me when I first got pregnant, you can
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beat this, but you'll have to hit.
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The ground running.
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What did that mean?
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That I could overcome the stigmas, that I could still
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have a future, but I'd have to hit.
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The ground running.
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So from the moment I found out I was pregnant,
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I like doubled my schoolwork. And so I skipped the
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11th grade. I ended up graduating at 16 years old
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because I had this mentality of like, you've got to
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beat this.
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You got to hit the ground running.
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You're smart. I mean, you were always smart in school.
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I was pretty smart.
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Yeah, you were sharp.
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I struggled.
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Now, I will tell you and talk about therapy. I
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struggled with even embracing this idea that I was intellectual
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because someone told me when I got pregnant, how could
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you be so stupid?
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Oh, geez.
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And so on one hand, I felt smart, but then
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someone told me that this was stupid.
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Stupid.
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So I didn't think that I could make good choices.
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Wow.
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It wasn't until I was like in my mid-20s where
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I made one really necessary choice where I started feeling
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like I think I can make good choices. But I
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think I second-guessed myself. I know I did for 10 years.
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Of course. Yeah.
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First of all, I mean, just all the things.
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All the things.
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And did your parents, like, I was just imagining how
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tough that must have been. But what was, did you
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go to church on Sundays still? Did you do all
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the things?
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I did.
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We had a family friend who they told about my
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pregnancy before I was even showing. And we were still
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going to church. No one knew what we were going through.
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But on Mother's Day, so I had my son in October.
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It was May.
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I wasn't showing. I wasn't showing.
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But on Mother's Day, my dad did a prayer for
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the mothers and the family friend grabs my hand and
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makes me stand.
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Up during Mother's Day prayer.
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And yeah, that was hard.
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Oh my gosh.
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So I told my dad at some point, I don't
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want to go anymore. I did get put on bed
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rest because they were afraid. The pressure of having him
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in my body was so hard that they thought I
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wouldn't make it if I continued to have activity. And
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so I ended up being put on bed rest, which
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I was really grateful for. Because it meant I didn't
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have to be outside with people looking at this baby.
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Face and this big belly.
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But when I was out at the grocery store, doctor's appointments, anytime,
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I think the reality of... Because it's one thing when
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you do something that church people don't like, because usually
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if church people don't like, you can go outside and
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the world's like.
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Don't worry about it.
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Don't worry about it.
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You're safe here.
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But I think when you're a young person who has
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a baby, anywhere you go, people are looking at you
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with this sadness.
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You know, teenage kid problems are acne and no one
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asked me to the dance and I feel left out.
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You overcame something bigger. What do you think it was
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teaching you? Or did you realize there were lessons being
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taught to you in that moment?
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My son, as much as I didn't feel like I
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was a church girl or that I fit within church,
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for some reason, I wanted to name him Malachi, which
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means messenger of the Lord. Because I think even my
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spirit knew what my mind couldn't comprehend, that this baby
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was going to be a message to me. And his
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existence grounded me. in a way that my family couldn't.
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My parents couldn't ground me. They were busy. My siblings
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were going through their own go through. But now I
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had this person who was depending on me and he
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gave me a sense of belonging that I didn't have.
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And everything around my life centered around trying to get
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things right for him. And of course he grew up
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with me. So he saw me get it wrong too.
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But he was my anchor.
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In every season.
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And so what I know now that I didn't know
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then was that God really was allowing me to have
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an angel and a sense of covering and a sense
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of responsibility that would keep me from being even more reckless.
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Because had I not had him, I don't know that
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00:13:13.769 --> 00:13:16.690
my teenage years, I don't know that I would have lived.
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00:13:16.950 --> 00:13:20.789
I think I would have tried anything, any and everything.
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And I still push the limits a little bit. But
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I think, I don't know that I think that my
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life would have had any value.
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Outside of him.
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So Malachi saved you. He did.
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He's my baby.
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Your baby's sitting right here. Yeah. In case you're watching
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and listening, Malachi is just off camera. And what a
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beautiful son he is.
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Yeah.
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He's been a gift and continues to be one.
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Wow.
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More ahead with Sarah Jakes Roberts. Stay with us.
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00:14:01.299 --> 00:14:02.580
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302
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303
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307
00:14:31.360 --> 00:14:34.759
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310
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312
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315
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00:15:02.600 --> 00:15:06.139
Monday, September 21st on NBC. The new season of The
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00:15:06.179 --> 00:15:08.879
Voice begins with an epic three-night premiere.
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00:15:09.039 --> 00:15:09.740
I'm so excited!
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00:15:10.879 --> 00:15:14.139
Fan favorites Adam Levine and Kelly Clarkson are back to
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00:15:14.179 --> 00:15:15.830
take on two new powerhouses.
321
00:15:16.129 --> 00:15:19.629
The legendary Queen Latifah. The queen is in the house.
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00:15:19.970 --> 00:15:23.470
And country superstar Riley Greene. Riley is super charming.
323
00:15:23.529 --> 00:15:24.889
He is a whole vibe.
324
00:15:25.169 --> 00:15:27.330
Can we put that on my chair? It's going to
325
00:15:27.370 --> 00:15:31.080
be a wild ride. The Voice premieres Monday, September 21st
326
00:15:31.149 --> 00:15:38.559
on NBC. There are women all over who are trying
327
00:15:38.580 --> 00:15:39.879
to find their power and can't.
328
00:15:40.059 --> 00:15:40.340
They are.
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00:15:40.990 --> 00:15:45.549
Stuck, frustrated. How did you begin to find it and
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where did it come from?
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00:15:46.929 --> 00:15:47.389
Okay.
332
00:15:48.210 --> 00:15:52.720
I found my power by attacking what made me feel powerless.
333
00:15:53.289 --> 00:15:56.340
And the more that I started focusing on what makes
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00:15:56.399 --> 00:16:00.580
me feel powerless and how did I get there and
335
00:16:00.720 --> 00:16:02.539
what response do I want to have instead?
336
00:16:02.580 --> 00:16:04.519
What choices do I want to make instead?
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00:16:05.070 --> 00:16:07.669
I started recognizing that power has a lot to do
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00:16:07.710 --> 00:16:11.029
with embracing the fullness of who we are, of shedding
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00:16:11.070 --> 00:16:14.039
who we are not, and releasing that into the world.
340
00:16:14.059 --> 00:16:16.000
Because a lot of people will do that work, but
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00:16:16.019 --> 00:16:19.159
they're restricted because my world has been built around this
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00:16:19.200 --> 00:16:21.679
false narrative of who I am. They think that I
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00:16:21.720 --> 00:16:23.679
don't speak up. They think that I don't have any thoughts.
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They think this. They think that I can just do everything,
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00:16:26.019 --> 00:16:29.370
that I'm superwoman. And my world functions off of this
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00:16:29.429 --> 00:16:31.950
false narrative of who I am. But I got to
347
00:16:31.990 --> 00:16:34.440
tell myself the truth. So that I can then tell
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00:16:34.519 --> 00:16:35.259
them the truth.
349
00:16:36.080 --> 00:16:37.879
And that is so good.
350
00:16:38.299 --> 00:16:39.240
That's it.
351
00:16:39.299 --> 00:16:39.679
Yeah.
352
00:16:40.080 --> 00:16:41.259
That's it for every woman.
353
00:16:41.360 --> 00:16:41.899
That's it.
354
00:16:42.179 --> 00:16:45.120
You're trying to live up to somebody else's expectation, your kids,
355
00:16:45.159 --> 00:16:48.200
your husbands, your job, whatever it is. And you have
356
00:16:48.240 --> 00:16:48.830
to define it.
357
00:16:48.960 --> 00:16:50.820
And they set the bar so high.
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Forget it.
359
00:16:51.460 --> 00:16:53.519
They set the bar so high that none of us
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00:16:53.559 --> 00:16:55.870
are hitting it all of the time. And to be
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00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:58.590
able to give ourselves permission to say, I can't hit
362
00:16:58.629 --> 00:17:01.409
that bar today. To give ourselves permission to say, you
363
00:17:01.450 --> 00:17:04.029
know what? This is actually where the bar needs to be.
364
00:17:04.269 --> 00:17:06.470
I can't cook and clean. I need help.
365
00:17:06.869 --> 00:17:10.130
I can't build the business and take care of my trauma.
366
00:17:10.250 --> 00:17:11.230
I need to take a break.
367
00:17:11.250 --> 00:17:13.180
Like to be able to say, I got to lower
368
00:17:13.240 --> 00:17:16.059
the bar, even if it's just for a season, to
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00:17:16.099 --> 00:17:16.859
lower this.
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00:17:16.660 --> 00:17:19.339
Bar so that I can become better. It's healthy.
371
00:17:19.660 --> 00:17:22.299
I went to this place, this retreat, and everyone was
372
00:17:22.339 --> 00:17:25.980
saying out loud what their shame statement was. And their
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00:17:26.019 --> 00:17:29.400
shame statement is something that has plagued them since they
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00:17:29.420 --> 00:17:29.869
were kids.
375
00:17:30.170 --> 00:17:30.589
Okay.
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00:17:30.970 --> 00:17:35.769
And it can be anything. one person said, my name
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00:17:35.829 --> 00:17:40.460
is so-and-so and I'm a mistake. And that's what she
378
00:17:40.500 --> 00:17:44.660
carried inside. Or somebody said, my name is so-and-so, I'm dirty.
379
00:17:45.319 --> 00:17:48.710
That's what she always felt. So whatever their statement is,
380
00:17:49.190 --> 00:17:52.869
and to shed that statement takes a lot of work
381
00:17:53.410 --> 00:17:57.569
because you can say you're yay, yay, yay, but deep
382
00:17:57.589 --> 00:18:01.740
down inside, someone hits that button and it's like, they're
383
00:18:01.759 --> 00:18:03.559
picking a scab. And you're like, I thought I was
384
00:18:03.579 --> 00:18:06.359
past that. You know, that's still in there. How were
385
00:18:06.380 --> 00:18:08.680
you able to uproot it? Or is it still, are
386
00:18:08.779 --> 00:18:10.710
there still parts of it inside that you're working to
387
00:18:10.750 --> 00:18:11.170
get out?
388
00:18:11.670 --> 00:18:12.250
For sure.
389
00:18:13.029 --> 00:18:16.130
But I recognize what it is. I think especially as
390
00:18:16.190 --> 00:18:19.230
I've become more visible. So I would say that my shame,
391
00:18:19.269 --> 00:18:21.839
I've never heard this before, but I'm embracing it. So
392
00:18:21.890 --> 00:18:24.289
I would say that my shame statement is, You know,
393
00:18:24.349 --> 00:18:27.809
my name is Sarah, and I'm not good enough. And
394
00:18:27.829 --> 00:18:30.130
I think that I have found a sense of feeling
395
00:18:30.170 --> 00:18:33.589
good enough within the context of myself and my intimate circle.
396
00:18:33.750 --> 00:18:36.950
I'm introverted. So at home, like, I don't have that battle.
397
00:18:36.990 --> 00:18:39.109
At home in my world, like, I feel like a
398
00:18:39.369 --> 00:18:40.029
smart girl.
399
00:18:40.049 --> 00:18:40.990
Like, I'm good.
400
00:18:41.089 --> 00:18:41.329
Yes.
401
00:18:41.410 --> 00:18:43.609
But when I am public and I am visible.
402
00:18:43.750 --> 00:18:48.140
Yes. That statement is so near that I have to
403
00:18:48.200 --> 00:18:53.140
recognize that my 13-year-old girl is in trauma. She's afraid
404
00:18:53.289 --> 00:18:57.289
in this moment. And so I remind her that she's okay.
405
00:18:57.390 --> 00:19:00.750
I have to constantly retell myself that you're going to
406
00:19:00.769 --> 00:19:04.269
be okay. I think in therapy, they call it reparenting yourself, right?
407
00:19:04.650 --> 00:19:06.589
And so I have to meet myself in those moments.
408
00:19:06.609 --> 00:19:09.890
That's why when I'm on social media and people say things, Like,
409
00:19:09.910 --> 00:19:12.970
they could tell me anything. But if they say you're
410
00:19:13.029 --> 00:19:14.950
not good enough, you don't belong here, I'm.
411
00:19:14.890 --> 00:19:15.490
Like, oh.
412
00:19:15.509 --> 00:19:17.029
You're like, oh, my God, are they right?
413
00:19:17.170 --> 00:19:19.670
But it only has power because it already had power
414
00:19:19.710 --> 00:19:22.529
inside of me. Yes. And so to reclaim my power
415
00:19:22.569 --> 00:19:24.910
and to say, you know, your opinion doesn't matter. But
416
00:19:24.950 --> 00:19:28.039
what does matter is that there's this wound inside of
417
00:19:28.099 --> 00:19:30.160
me that's still being healed. And so what does care
418
00:19:30.200 --> 00:19:33.799
look like in the face of someone reflecting something that
419
00:19:33.839 --> 00:19:35.579
I'm nursing on the inside?
420
00:19:35.599 --> 00:19:35.670
Yes.
421
00:19:36.329 --> 00:19:40.119
As an introvert, why did you decide to become a preacher?
422
00:19:40.759 --> 00:19:44.960
Oh, I did not decide. I didn't choose this life.
423
00:19:45.059 --> 00:19:46.670
It chose you, of course.
424
00:19:47.529 --> 00:19:48.789
Oh, it was terrible.
425
00:19:48.809 --> 00:19:52.920
Tell me about the moment that. it was decided for you.
426
00:19:52.940 --> 00:19:53.539
Do you think?
427
00:19:53.559 --> 00:19:56.250
So I was a writer. I am a writer. I
428
00:19:56.329 --> 00:19:58.910
love words. I love being behind a computer screen.
429
00:19:59.500 --> 00:20:01.839
And someone asked me if I would come and like
430
00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:04.140
share my story to a group of women.
431
00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:06.660
And I was like, sure. You know what I mean?
432
00:20:07.079 --> 00:20:09.700
Why not? And I think there were teen girls. I'm like, perfect.
433
00:20:09.819 --> 00:20:12.940
I'd love to make another version of me feel seen.
434
00:20:13.720 --> 00:20:16.400
And I was fine with the girls, but then their
435
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:18.269
moms were touched and cried too.
436
00:20:18.880 --> 00:20:20.269
And I was like, well, that's interesting.
437
00:20:20.289 --> 00:20:22.549
So you told your story and they got emotional.
438
00:20:22.589 --> 00:20:25.609
They got emotional. They felt seen. They felt like maybe
439
00:20:25.650 --> 00:20:26.950
God still loves them too.
440
00:20:27.069 --> 00:20:30.150
And so now they're curious about this journey that I've
441
00:20:30.190 --> 00:20:31.890
gone on. And I thought, okay, well, I will just
442
00:20:31.990 --> 00:20:36.220
tell my story. in close, intimate groups of women. And
443
00:20:36.259 --> 00:20:38.160
that kind of started growing as well. And I was like,
444
00:20:38.180 --> 00:20:39.960
that's okay. Cause I started learning that, oh my gosh,
445
00:20:40.160 --> 00:20:42.759
so many of us are so alike, like white women,
446
00:20:42.819 --> 00:20:45.640
black women, brown women, like the whole, I was everywhere
447
00:20:45.700 --> 00:20:48.750
telling this story and found out that it resonated with everyone.
448
00:20:49.289 --> 00:20:52.069
My husband asked me if I would, my current husband
449
00:20:52.509 --> 00:20:54.750
asked me if I would preach at his church for
450
00:20:54.829 --> 00:20:57.009
Mother's Day. At this point, I'm only telling my story.
451
00:20:57.049 --> 00:20:58.890
It's Mother's Day. He's like, maybe you can share with
452
00:20:58.930 --> 00:21:00.869
the women here. He's like, if there's any church you
453
00:21:00.890 --> 00:21:02.089
could preach at, it's my church.
454
00:21:02.109 --> 00:21:02.509
It's cool.
455
00:21:02.589 --> 00:21:04.390
It's hip. It's in LA. Like no one's going to
456
00:21:04.490 --> 00:21:04.910
judge you.
457
00:21:04.930 --> 00:21:06.470
It'll be fine. I'm like, sure.
458
00:21:06.670 --> 00:21:09.460
One time on a Sunday, I've got this. And it
459
00:21:10.140 --> 00:21:11.759
was the feedback from people.
460
00:21:11.839 --> 00:21:12.369
What'd they say?
461
00:21:13.599 --> 00:21:16.759
I mean, I was so depressed before I came in here,
462
00:21:16.819 --> 00:21:18.359
but now I feel like I can live.
463
00:21:18.539 --> 00:21:19.279
Oh my God.
464
00:21:19.299 --> 00:21:21.779
I've never felt like God's love applied to me too,
465
00:21:21.900 --> 00:21:24.559
or you made this make sense to me. Like all
466
00:21:24.599 --> 00:21:26.420
my life I've been in church and it never made
467
00:21:26.460 --> 00:21:27.799
sense until you said this.
468
00:21:28.619 --> 00:21:30.190
And then like, how do you turn your back on that?
469
00:21:30.210 --> 00:21:30.589
You can't.
470
00:21:30.789 --> 00:21:31.529
It chose me.
471
00:21:31.750 --> 00:21:32.890
It chose you. It chose.
472
00:21:32.910 --> 00:21:35.589
I promise you it chose me. It still chooses me.
473
00:21:35.930 --> 00:21:38.230
Because even before I preach, I'm like, God, if you
474
00:21:38.250 --> 00:21:41.150
don't want me to do this, make it a mess.
475
00:21:43.410 --> 00:21:45.700
Like, let it be tragic up there. Like, let me
476
00:21:45.819 --> 00:21:46.640
fumble and bumble.
477
00:21:46.660 --> 00:21:49.799
Like, make it so clear that this is not for me.
478
00:21:50.220 --> 00:21:53.559
And time after time. God shows up in a way
479
00:21:53.599 --> 00:21:56.380
that I can't manufacture. Like I can't, I don't even
480
00:21:56.460 --> 00:21:59.039
know what's happening in the moment besides the fact that
481
00:21:59.119 --> 00:22:03.039
I've surrendered to whatever the moment requires. And I mean,
482
00:22:03.059 --> 00:22:05.400
it was just Sunday I was speaking and someone told me, like,
483
00:22:05.619 --> 00:22:07.759
I was thinking about taking my life. I came here
484
00:22:07.779 --> 00:22:10.180
in the pouring rain. There was a tornado watch on Sunday.
485
00:22:10.539 --> 00:22:12.500
She's like, I just felt like this was my last chance.
486
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:14.900
And she breaks down tears. She's like, I'm going to live.
487
00:22:16.380 --> 00:22:18.339
I'm going to live. How do you turn your back
488
00:22:18.420 --> 00:22:18.619
on that?
489
00:22:20.349 --> 00:22:23.509
Oh, my God, I could cry. Oh, my gosh.
490
00:22:23.609 --> 00:22:24.450
I'm going to live.
491
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:25.140
I'm going to live.
492
00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:25.859
Yeah.
493
00:22:25.900 --> 00:22:28.819
Yeah, that's your calling. I mean, there's nothing else there.
494
00:22:28.839 --> 00:22:32.009
How do you react? And I don't know if they're
495
00:22:32.329 --> 00:22:34.890
out there. I'm sure there are. Because how do you
496
00:22:34.910 --> 00:22:37.650
react when someone says, who are you to preach to me?
497
00:22:38.990 --> 00:22:42.549
Your life is full of potholes. Who are you? Because
498
00:22:42.930 --> 00:22:44.259
that is some people's mindset.
499
00:22:44.279 --> 00:22:44.880
Sure.
500
00:22:45.140 --> 00:22:47.440
What do you think or do you engage or what's
501
00:22:47.460 --> 00:22:48.319
your answer to that?
502
00:22:48.660 --> 00:22:52.769
You know, luckily, I have been so transparent about my journey. Yeah.
503
00:22:53.210 --> 00:22:55.289
That I think is you got to be a pothole
504
00:22:55.329 --> 00:22:57.890
kind of person to roll with me.
505
00:22:58.730 --> 00:23:00.670
You know what I mean? Like, I think that there's
506
00:23:00.690 --> 00:23:03.150
someone for everyone, but most of the people who are
507
00:23:03.210 --> 00:23:05.880
connected to my ministry. And I'm not asking, like, I'm
508
00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:08.759
not going out just opening myself up to spaces where
509
00:23:08.779 --> 00:23:11.420
I receive that type of feedback, you know?
510
00:23:11.700 --> 00:23:12.039
Of course.
511
00:23:12.059 --> 00:23:14.099
I think on social media, maybe someone says, like, who
512
00:23:14.180 --> 00:23:16.779
is she to say something? But what I have learned is, like,
513
00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:20.650
don't—we've all had at least— a pothole. Like maybe your
514
00:23:20.670 --> 00:23:23.740
life hasn't been riddled with potholes, but none of us
515
00:23:23.819 --> 00:23:26.579
are perfect. And we're all learning and growing and stretching
516
00:23:26.759 --> 00:23:29.680
as life stretches and grows us. And we make mistakes
517
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:32.099
along the way. And I am comfortable enough in my
518
00:23:32.160 --> 00:23:34.099
journey that that doesn't bother me.
519
00:23:34.460 --> 00:23:38.720
Did you ever not question God's existence, obviously, but wonder,
520
00:23:38.740 --> 00:23:43.869
you know, just with sometimes things go wrong, a series
521
00:23:43.910 --> 00:23:45.950
of things happen and you start to go like, wait,
522
00:23:46.069 --> 00:23:48.700
what's going on here? I mean, my daughter is little
523
00:23:48.740 --> 00:23:51.740
and she's got some special needs. And she said, why
524
00:23:51.779 --> 00:23:53.960
is God picking on me? I said, oh, he's not
525
00:23:54.000 --> 00:23:56.039
picking on you, honey. He's chosen you. You're going to
526
00:23:56.059 --> 00:23:59.990
be stronger. He's making you stronger. That's what's happening. trying
527
00:24:00.009 --> 00:24:03.349
to explain that piece. But sometimes that's hard to see
528
00:24:03.509 --> 00:24:05.650
when you're, you know, really in the weeds.
529
00:24:06.299 --> 00:24:09.220
Well, I think there's a reality that we often fail
530
00:24:09.259 --> 00:24:13.740
to see, and that is though God is here and present,
531
00:24:13.859 --> 00:24:19.619
so is life. And life is so nuanced and heartbreaking
532
00:24:19.819 --> 00:24:24.450
and beautiful and exhilarating and painful. And God is present
533
00:24:24.569 --> 00:24:27.190
in the midst of all of that. So God's role
534
00:24:27.250 --> 00:24:30.809
is not to make everything beautiful. God is to stick
535
00:24:30.869 --> 00:24:32.730
close to us so that we can see the beauty
536
00:24:32.750 --> 00:24:33.450
in everything.
537
00:24:33.789 --> 00:24:35.470
You know, it's not.
538
00:24:36.930 --> 00:24:40.839
This genie in a bottle relationship that I'm connected to
539
00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:43.740
God and now everything should be smooth. But I'm connected
540
00:24:43.779 --> 00:24:46.339
with God and he shows me how to survive, how
541
00:24:46.359 --> 00:24:48.220
to fix a flat tire after a pothole.
542
00:24:48.380 --> 00:24:48.779
That's good.
543
00:24:48.799 --> 00:24:52.400
You know, he shows me what recovery looks like because
544
00:24:52.519 --> 00:24:55.440
we cannot avoid the reality that we are living amongst God.
545
00:24:55.720 --> 00:24:58.539
People and people are all on a journey and they're
546
00:24:58.579 --> 00:25:01.819
making mistakes. And sometimes we're the victim and sometimes.
547
00:25:01.420 --> 00:25:02.140
We're the villain.
548
00:25:02.460 --> 00:25:05.180
But either of those roles doesn't mean that we're never
549
00:25:05.220 --> 00:25:06.680
without an opportunity to grow.
550
00:25:10.240 --> 00:25:12.519
More with Sarah Jakes Roberts when we come back.
551
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557
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565
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Every week on The Moth Podcast, real people tell their
566
00:26:25.390 --> 00:26:26.789
stories live on stage.
567
00:26:27.670 --> 00:26:30.690
I burst into tears. And I wasn't sure if I
568
00:26:30.730 --> 00:26:33.789
was crying because I hadn't been kissed in a really
569
00:26:33.809 --> 00:26:36.710
long time or if I had just never been kissed
570
00:26:36.750 --> 00:26:37.579
like that before.
571
00:26:38.430 --> 00:26:45.180
To hear fascinating, heartbreaking, and sometimes hilarious stories from astronauts, teachers, farmers,
572
00:26:45.339 --> 00:26:47.859
and people just like you, follow and listen to The
573
00:26:47.940 --> 00:26:49.900
Moth wherever you get your podcasts.
574
00:26:57.039 --> 00:26:57.819
Let's talk about the book.
575
00:26:57.940 --> 00:26:58.200
Okay.
576
00:26:58.380 --> 00:27:01.049
First of all, the picture on the cover is fierce.
577
00:27:01.630 --> 00:27:05.589
I mean, it's screaming power to me. But there are
578
00:27:05.650 --> 00:27:10.049
many people who feel like I'm in a relationship that's
579
00:27:10.109 --> 00:27:11.930
not good, but I have no power to leave it.
580
00:27:12.019 --> 00:27:12.400
Yeah.
581
00:27:12.579 --> 00:27:14.680
I'm in a job that is a dead-end job, but
582
00:27:14.700 --> 00:27:17.019
I need my insurance, and I have no power to
583
00:27:17.079 --> 00:27:17.460
leave it.
584
00:27:17.500 --> 00:27:17.700
Yeah.
585
00:27:17.720 --> 00:27:17.799
Yeah.
586
00:27:18.630 --> 00:27:22.099
I feel like life's about jumping and it's scary to jump.
587
00:27:22.259 --> 00:27:22.599
It is.
588
00:27:22.690 --> 00:27:24.619
But all the greats have jumped.
589
00:27:24.900 --> 00:27:25.200
Yeah.
590
00:27:25.259 --> 00:27:28.240
So how do you help someone who feels like I'm trapped,
591
00:27:28.319 --> 00:27:30.460
I'm stuck, and there's no way out? I don't have
592
00:27:30.480 --> 00:27:32.980
an option. That's why I'm still here living through this hell.
593
00:27:33.440 --> 00:27:36.470
First of all, I totally relate because I've been there.
594
00:27:36.569 --> 00:27:38.349
I know what it feels like to be stuck and
595
00:27:38.390 --> 00:27:40.509
trapped and feeling like there's no way out. I mean,
596
00:27:40.529 --> 00:27:44.750
that's why I almost got arrested. I was going to
597
00:27:44.829 --> 00:27:47.569
find a way out. I would say to that person
598
00:27:47.589 --> 00:27:49.509
that it is difficult to see a way out when
599
00:27:49.569 --> 00:27:52.170
you cannot see a you outside.
600
00:27:51.769 --> 00:27:52.769
Of this experience.
601
00:27:52.829 --> 00:27:53.970
Oh, say that again. That's good.
602
00:27:53.990 --> 00:27:56.759
So if you're in a toxic relationship and all you've
603
00:27:56.819 --> 00:28:00.859
known is this toxic relationship, if you cannot envision a
604
00:28:01.019 --> 00:28:04.180
version of you that can thrive after this, that can
605
00:28:04.220 --> 00:28:06.619
be healed after this, that can be joyful after this,
606
00:28:06.960 --> 00:28:08.990
then you are trapped not in the relationship but in
607
00:28:09.029 --> 00:28:12.089
your mindset because you don't have a vision of who
608
00:28:12.109 --> 00:28:13.990
you could be outside of this. Right.
609
00:28:14.109 --> 00:28:15.559
So you don't have anything to jump to.
610
00:28:16.410 --> 00:28:16.710
Right.
611
00:28:16.950 --> 00:28:18.680
So if you're going to take a leap, I would
612
00:28:18.700 --> 00:28:20.799
say before you even move your feet and put your
613
00:28:20.819 --> 00:28:22.980
shoes on, what are we jumping to?
614
00:28:23.220 --> 00:28:23.440
Right.
615
00:28:23.599 --> 00:28:24.539
Who is that person?
616
00:28:24.599 --> 00:28:25.579
Who is she? What does she look like?
617
00:28:25.619 --> 00:28:28.319
What type of choices does she make? What makes her laugh?
618
00:28:28.339 --> 00:28:30.819
What gives her joy? Because the more that you can
619
00:28:30.920 --> 00:28:33.740
envision her, the more discontent you will be with your
620
00:28:33.819 --> 00:28:36.519
present version of who you are. OK, you can't quit
621
00:28:36.559 --> 00:28:39.549
the job because you need the insurance. So what activities
622
00:28:39.589 --> 00:28:41.789
do we need to have outside of the job that
623
00:28:41.809 --> 00:28:45.170
helps to balance the scales? What does entrepreneurship look like?
624
00:28:45.190 --> 00:28:47.430
What are the other options? You are not the only
625
00:28:47.490 --> 00:28:49.670
one who's been in this situation. I thought for sure
626
00:28:50.099 --> 00:28:52.259
I am the only one who has ever been 13
627
00:28:52.259 --> 00:28:54.960
and pregnant. This has only happened to me. I started
628
00:28:55.000 --> 00:28:56.779
talking to other women and I realized, oh, no, we've
629
00:28:57.039 --> 00:28:59.859
all been trapped in something. But not all of us
630
00:28:59.920 --> 00:29:02.930
stay trapped. they're not any more courageous than I am.
631
00:29:02.990 --> 00:29:04.750
Maybe they just had a different vision of what could
632
00:29:04.769 --> 00:29:07.710
happen after this. And so I'm not asking you, I'm
633
00:29:08.069 --> 00:29:08.589
not one of.
634
00:29:08.589 --> 00:29:11.259
Those just like, go do it. You're like, wait, wait, wait,
635
00:29:11.440 --> 00:29:11.980
hold on.
636
00:29:12.619 --> 00:29:14.960
And even in the book, I try to be very intentional.
637
00:29:14.980 --> 00:29:17.700
Like let's create some core values. Let's create this vision
638
00:29:17.759 --> 00:29:20.650
together because I want you to know what you're jumping into.
639
00:29:20.809 --> 00:29:22.730
And so someone to hold your hand and to say,
640
00:29:23.359 --> 00:29:24.039
Take a deep breath.
641
00:29:24.079 --> 00:29:24.599
Deep breath, right.
642
00:29:24.640 --> 00:29:25.160
Here we go.
643
00:29:25.460 --> 00:29:25.640
Right.
644
00:29:25.660 --> 00:29:26.180
It's helpful.
645
00:29:26.599 --> 00:29:26.799
Right.
646
00:29:27.119 --> 00:29:29.440
So talk about this book a little bit because I
647
00:29:29.500 --> 00:29:32.119
love what you just said. That's such a beautiful thing.
648
00:29:32.160 --> 00:29:35.410
I was just thinking about you can be terrified and
649
00:29:35.529 --> 00:29:37.849
still see yourself on the other side.
650
00:29:37.869 --> 00:29:38.309
For sure.
651
00:29:38.369 --> 00:29:41.789
And still take that step. that jump. What are things,
652
00:29:41.990 --> 00:29:44.490
practical things people can do if they're trying to find
653
00:29:44.529 --> 00:29:46.589
their power and they want it, but they don't know
654
00:29:46.630 --> 00:29:47.250
where to get it?
655
00:29:47.529 --> 00:29:49.849
Oh, goodness. Okay, this is why I wrote the book.
656
00:29:50.230 --> 00:29:52.490
So first of all, the first thing that hit me
657
00:29:52.509 --> 00:29:54.309
when I started writing the book, and the book's called
658
00:29:54.329 --> 00:29:55.309
Power Moves, right?
659
00:29:55.329 --> 00:29:55.470
Yes.
660
00:29:55.650 --> 00:29:57.609
Because it is about the fluidity of power.
661
00:29:57.650 --> 00:29:58.009
Yes.
662
00:29:58.069 --> 00:30:01.029
Because oftentimes we're looking for a version of power that
663
00:30:01.069 --> 00:30:04.970
belongs to someone else. Like, I want your version of power.
664
00:30:05.019 --> 00:30:06.920
I want to walk into a room and sit behind
665
00:30:06.940 --> 00:30:08.920
the anchors. Like, that's what I want for me. But
666
00:30:08.940 --> 00:30:11.680
that's your power. I want to know what power flowing
667
00:30:11.720 --> 00:30:14.119
through me looks like. Or maybe I tapped into power
668
00:30:14.160 --> 00:30:15.960
in the past, and I want to be who I
669
00:30:15.980 --> 00:30:18.180
was in my 20s. I want to be how courageous
670
00:30:18.200 --> 00:30:20.349
I was in my 30s. But power has a flow.
671
00:30:20.680 --> 00:30:22.369
And so what I need to be asking myself is
672
00:30:22.420 --> 00:30:25.349
what does power look like in my situation right now
673
00:30:25.690 --> 00:30:29.630
with my current set of circumstances, resources, et cetera? And
674
00:30:29.710 --> 00:30:33.529
then when are the moments where I feel powerless? Because
675
00:30:33.569 --> 00:30:36.089
those moments where I feel powerless and I feel stuck
676
00:30:36.269 --> 00:30:39.809
upon examination, we may discover that we have more choices
677
00:30:39.869 --> 00:30:40.549
than we think we have.
678
00:30:40.569 --> 00:30:41.829
Yeah, you think there isn't, but there is.
679
00:30:41.829 --> 00:30:45.750
Yeah, that we have an opportunity to bring authenticity to ourselves,
680
00:30:45.809 --> 00:30:48.390
power at the end of the day. is about authenticity.
681
00:30:48.470 --> 00:30:51.289
What is true for you? What do you want to
682
00:30:51.349 --> 00:30:54.390
believe is true for you? And do those two coexist?
683
00:30:54.470 --> 00:30:56.269
If not, can we build a bridge to get there?
684
00:30:56.289 --> 00:30:58.779
Because I think confidence is so much of it. Like
685
00:30:58.819 --> 00:31:01.180
I've sat in many rooms early in my career and
686
00:31:01.220 --> 00:31:04.519
even late in my career where I had something to say,
687
00:31:04.539 --> 00:31:07.059
but I didn't say it. And I was like, why
688
00:31:07.079 --> 00:31:09.200
am I not saying it? Is it because they're going
689
00:31:09.220 --> 00:31:12.769
to think it's stupid? Somebody already must have thought of that. Why,
690
00:31:12.980 --> 00:31:16.420
you know, So you second guess yourself and you take
691
00:31:16.460 --> 00:31:21.049
away your own power before anybody has taken it from
692
00:31:21.089 --> 00:31:24.160
you or... You have tried to speak up, and you've
693
00:31:24.180 --> 00:31:26.819
been sort of silent. So you're like, oh, God, okay,
694
00:31:26.839 --> 00:31:28.079
let's let these guys handle it.
695
00:31:28.960 --> 00:31:32.380
And being able to try again, what I love about
696
00:31:32.500 --> 00:31:34.740
the book for myself, because this is just me putting
697
00:31:34.779 --> 00:31:36.720
my heart on paper and what I've had to go through,
698
00:31:37.119 --> 00:31:39.819
is that when I first decided, like, I'm going to
699
00:31:39.859 --> 00:31:42.359
speak up. I'm not going to stay silent anymore. I
700
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:45.460
say it, and sometimes it did not make any sense. Yeah.
701
00:31:47.549 --> 00:31:52.769
People were confused, but I want to try again. I'm
702
00:31:52.849 --> 00:31:55.410
going to try again. How could I have said that better?
703
00:31:55.990 --> 00:31:58.470
Where did I lose them in the room? Having someone
704
00:31:58.529 --> 00:32:00.690
to give you feedback. I know I said that in
705
00:32:00.730 --> 00:32:02.549
the room and it felt like I lost someone. Where
706
00:32:02.589 --> 00:32:04.230
do you think I lost them? Was it too loud?
707
00:32:04.269 --> 00:32:06.089
Sometimes I say I'm going to speak up and I'm yelling.
708
00:32:06.849 --> 00:32:09.750
Excuse me, God. You know what I mean?
709
00:32:09.769 --> 00:32:11.349
Okay, next time when I do it, I'm going to
710
00:32:11.390 --> 00:32:13.650
lower my voice. Next time when I do, I'm going
711
00:32:13.670 --> 00:32:15.470
to honor the idea that you're on the table while
712
00:32:15.529 --> 00:32:18.289
also expanding it. But you don't learn until you get
713
00:32:18.309 --> 00:32:19.920
it out there. It's like with parenting. You can buy
714
00:32:19.960 --> 00:32:20.539
the diapers.
715
00:32:20.579 --> 00:32:21.420
You can get the crib.
716
00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:23.440
But it's not until you have the baby that you
717
00:32:23.579 --> 00:32:25.359
actually know what you're working with. You got to put
718
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:28.390
power out there and then figure out, okay, maybe it's
719
00:32:28.410 --> 00:32:30.569
a little raw. Maybe it's a little rough on the edges,
720
00:32:30.609 --> 00:32:33.240
but it's still power. Now we get to polish that
721
00:32:33.299 --> 00:32:35.420
power so that it can really function in our lives.
722
00:32:35.460 --> 00:32:37.660
You know what else you have? You have a lightness
723
00:32:37.700 --> 00:32:41.329
of spirit that is beautiful. Like you're talking about these
724
00:32:41.450 --> 00:32:45.589
really weighty, heavy subjects. And I feel lightness in the
725
00:32:45.630 --> 00:32:50.039
room because not everything has to be sledgehammer. Like you
726
00:32:50.140 --> 00:32:53.619
can get power anywhere. And be a delightful human being.
727
00:32:53.660 --> 00:32:53.880
For sure.
728
00:32:53.940 --> 00:32:56.279
I think some people see those powerful women.
729
00:32:56.099 --> 00:32:57.460
As like— Intimidating.
730
00:32:57.480 --> 00:32:58.079
Intimidating.
731
00:32:58.240 --> 00:32:59.640
No, you don't have to be that, right?
732
00:32:59.660 --> 00:33:01.529
You know what I love is that at this— I think
733
00:33:01.549 --> 00:33:04.410
that there was this short window where, for women.
734
00:33:04.470 --> 00:33:05.569
You had to do that.
735
00:33:05.589 --> 00:33:06.210
Yes, you did.
736
00:33:06.230 --> 00:33:08.170
Like, you had to be one of the guys.
737
00:33:08.210 --> 00:33:08.769
You know what I mean?
738
00:33:08.789 --> 00:33:09.849
Like, you had to show the strength.
739
00:33:09.869 --> 00:33:10.670
Dress like them, act like them.
740
00:33:10.690 --> 00:33:11.069
Oh, yeah. Yeah.
741
00:33:11.369 --> 00:33:13.609
And then not too long after that, even on social media,
742
00:33:13.650 --> 00:33:15.890
I started seeing women saying, I'm walking into my soft
743
00:33:15.930 --> 00:33:16.559
girl era.
744
00:33:16.599 --> 00:33:17.990
Like, I'm a heel girl. I was like, now you
745
00:33:18.039 --> 00:33:20.720
are a girl boss. Last week, like, what happened?
746
00:33:21.000 --> 00:33:23.519
They're both true. Like, I'm going to be a girl boss. Like,
747
00:33:23.660 --> 00:33:25.740
I can negotiate with the fellas. I can hang in
748
00:33:25.779 --> 00:33:28.119
the boardroom. And I can say, girl, I need some help.
749
00:33:28.420 --> 00:33:30.039
I need to go talk to my therapist. Like, I
750
00:33:30.079 --> 00:33:31.019
can say I need some support.
751
00:33:31.039 --> 00:33:31.779
Both things can be true.
752
00:33:31.799 --> 00:33:34.099
Both things. Those are— power is fluid.
753
00:33:34.400 --> 00:33:36.789
That is just as much power as being able to say,
754
00:33:36.869 --> 00:33:37.940
I need to call my therapist.
755
00:33:38.009 --> 00:33:39.069
I'm going through a hard time.
756
00:33:39.440 --> 00:33:42.579
And if we decide that power can only have one expression,
757
00:33:42.660 --> 00:33:45.599
we will be confined instead of living out a life
758
00:33:45.640 --> 00:33:47.240
that is full of liberation and joy.
759
00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:48.660
And so I do think.
760
00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:52.180
That part of what you're experiencing of me is me
761
00:33:52.220 --> 00:33:56.420
feeling like I can flow wherever I go. Not to
762
00:33:56.460 --> 00:34:01.930
be a rapper, but I trust that I can connect
763
00:34:01.970 --> 00:34:02.829
wherever I am.
764
00:34:03.529 --> 00:34:06.049
Oh, you're so fun. I love your light. I love
765
00:34:06.230 --> 00:34:11.179
all of it. When you started preaching, did your dad
766
00:34:11.219 --> 00:34:13.380
ever say, I got a couple of pointers. This might
767
00:34:13.420 --> 00:34:15.579
help you out, sweetie. Or did he let you go
768
00:34:15.699 --> 00:34:16.280
and do you?
769
00:34:16.340 --> 00:34:19.429
Surprisingly, no. I think he was so shocked that I
770
00:34:19.449 --> 00:34:22.949
was preaching in the first one that his tongue was tied.
771
00:34:22.969 --> 00:34:27.289
He didn't have much to say at all. But then
772
00:34:27.550 --> 00:34:29.849
something that I could not have imagined happened is he
773
00:34:29.889 --> 00:34:33.869
started affirming my gift, not by just saying good job,
774
00:34:33.909 --> 00:34:35.570
but by saying that helped me too.
775
00:34:36.530 --> 00:34:37.550
That served me too.
776
00:34:39.039 --> 00:34:42.639
And I think that that was giving me pointers because
777
00:34:42.739 --> 00:34:46.179
for me and everyone's process is different, but this is
778
00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:50.550
the overflow of my genuine relationship with God. And so
779
00:34:50.699 --> 00:34:54.670
I am protective over it a bit because I fought
780
00:34:54.690 --> 00:34:56.650
so hard to get it. I didn't think God could
781
00:34:56.869 --> 00:34:59.409
connect with me. I didn't think that we could have
782
00:34:59.469 --> 00:35:02.809
this intimate relationship. And so I treasure it and I
783
00:35:02.869 --> 00:35:05.269
study from that place and I pour from that place.
784
00:35:05.329 --> 00:35:07.789
And I think that my dad trusts That I'm going
785
00:35:07.809 --> 00:35:10.469
to be responsible with the text, responsible with the people
786
00:35:10.510 --> 00:35:14.690
so he can sit back and enjoy instead of, you know, criticizing.
787
00:35:14.750 --> 00:35:17.869
Him and my husband watching me preach, it's like watching
788
00:35:17.989 --> 00:35:21.750
two guys at a football game. They're like, oh my gosh,
789
00:35:21.769 --> 00:35:23.510
they're like chest bumping and like, did.
790
00:35:23.429 --> 00:35:23.969
You hear that?
791
00:35:24.030 --> 00:35:25.909
Did you see that? It's pretty amazing.
792
00:35:25.929 --> 00:35:28.699
Does it all just come to you? Or is it
793
00:35:28.739 --> 00:35:29.610
sometimes a struggle?
794
00:35:30.920 --> 00:35:32.000
Sometimes it's a struggle.
795
00:35:32.039 --> 00:35:35.519
Yeah. Initially, when I know I'm going to speak, the
796
00:35:35.539 --> 00:35:37.920
13-year-old girl is like, girl, you got nothing to say.
797
00:35:39.239 --> 00:35:42.550
But once I'm like, shh, girl, be quiet, I will see.
798
00:35:43.130 --> 00:35:45.090
When it does come to me, it comes like a flood.
799
00:35:45.829 --> 00:35:49.829
It's like, I know for sure what God is teaching
800
00:35:49.869 --> 00:35:52.750
me that people should know. Then I'm asking, what keeps
801
00:35:52.789 --> 00:35:54.920
them from getting this? What keeps me from getting this?
802
00:35:55.280 --> 00:35:58.460
And how do we run straight on into those barriers,
803
00:35:58.559 --> 00:36:01.179
into those obstacles to leave them with no other option?
804
00:36:01.590 --> 00:36:04.750
but to at least let it marinate. But best case scenario,
805
00:36:05.179 --> 00:36:08.280
force them to embrace this incredible love and direction for
806
00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:08.840
their lives.
807
00:36:12.139 --> 00:36:14.969
How do you work on yourself? And how do you
808
00:36:14.989 --> 00:36:18.070
make time for that? Because this podcast is called Making
809
00:36:18.110 --> 00:36:22.139
Space and it's about how we just self-care. And sometimes
810
00:36:22.159 --> 00:36:26.099
there are massages and sometimes there's the internal work. So
811
00:36:26.519 --> 00:36:29.559
what do you do and how do you continue the process?
812
00:36:29.739 --> 00:36:31.679
I usually find out that I need to make space
813
00:36:31.800 --> 00:36:35.000
after I have had an anxiety attack from claustrophobia.
814
00:36:35.059 --> 00:36:38.579
It's like, OK, something's going on here.
815
00:36:38.699 --> 00:36:42.320
I don't. I sometimes have to ask myself, I think
816
00:36:42.360 --> 00:36:44.239
this is what it feels like to be overwhelmed because
817
00:36:44.320 --> 00:36:46.889
I can get very much so an autopilot where I'm
818
00:36:46.929 --> 00:36:49.230
going and going. But what has helped me tremendously, I
819
00:36:49.409 --> 00:36:51.300
will say in the last year. trying to hit all
820
00:36:51.340 --> 00:36:53.539
these boxes in this bar, right? I'm like, I've got
821
00:36:53.559 --> 00:36:55.639
to get up every morning with my girls. I have
822
00:36:55.679 --> 00:36:57.460
to make them breakfast. I have to be the one
823
00:36:57.500 --> 00:36:59.340
that takes them to school. I have to be the
824
00:36:59.420 --> 00:37:01.000
one that picks them up. It has to be me
825
00:37:01.099 --> 00:37:02.099
every single morning.
826
00:37:02.300 --> 00:37:02.780
I'm married.
827
00:37:02.800 --> 00:37:04.800
I have an incredible husband. It doesn't matter.
828
00:37:04.880 --> 00:37:07.719
It has to be me. And I finally, at the
829
00:37:07.760 --> 00:37:09.199
end of the school year, he would get up and
830
00:37:09.219 --> 00:37:11.050
do stuff and I was resentful because I'm like, oh,
831
00:37:11.070 --> 00:37:13.690
what are you doing? I guess you can't go outside.
832
00:37:14.409 --> 00:37:17.329
And I realized that I was penalizing him for a
833
00:37:17.389 --> 00:37:19.050
standard that I set.
834
00:37:19.570 --> 00:37:19.829
Yes.
835
00:37:20.659 --> 00:37:20.960
Yes.
836
00:37:21.199 --> 00:37:23.360
And the moment I told him I need more support,
837
00:37:23.389 --> 00:37:24.010
he's like, sure.
838
00:37:24.030 --> 00:37:25.090
I got you. Where's the Pam?
839
00:37:25.110 --> 00:37:27.199
Where's the eggs? Like, just show me where the stuff is.
840
00:37:27.550 --> 00:37:29.389
And so asking for help.
841
00:37:29.409 --> 00:37:29.840
Yeah, that's bad.
842
00:37:29.849 --> 00:37:33.110
A lot of times we want space, but we want
843
00:37:33.150 --> 00:37:34.449
people to be psychic.
844
00:37:34.849 --> 00:37:36.489
And we want them to look at us.
845
00:37:36.849 --> 00:37:39.130
And be able to tell that I am overwhelmed and
846
00:37:39.210 --> 00:37:42.050
I am stretched to capacity. But we have made it
847
00:37:42.090 --> 00:37:44.190
look easy for so long that no one can tell
848
00:37:44.210 --> 00:37:45.449
that we're silently screaming.
849
00:37:45.469 --> 00:37:45.679
Oh, my God.
850
00:37:45.710 --> 00:37:46.630
You are speaking to me.
851
00:37:46.670 --> 00:37:50.769
So it is our job to make sure. That we
852
00:37:50.829 --> 00:37:55.349
are making space by opening our mouth, by saying, I can't.
853
00:37:55.590 --> 00:37:56.150
I can't today.
854
00:37:56.230 --> 00:37:56.610
I can't.
855
00:37:56.630 --> 00:37:59.210
I need more help. I'm struggling.
856
00:37:59.590 --> 00:38:03.650
To actually make space for ourselves first, to give ourselves
857
00:38:03.710 --> 00:38:08.039
that permission, and then to give that responsibility of nurturing
858
00:38:08.179 --> 00:38:11.599
us to someone who has already shown that they want
859
00:38:11.639 --> 00:38:12.309
to help us.
860
00:38:12.380 --> 00:38:12.719
Yes.
861
00:38:12.840 --> 00:38:13.900
That's how we make space.
862
00:38:14.659 --> 00:38:15.980
Will you talk about that next Sunday?
863
00:38:17.019 --> 00:38:17.599
I got you.
864
00:38:17.619 --> 00:38:18.489
I just want that expanded on.
865
00:38:18.539 --> 00:38:20.039
Mother's Day, making space.
866
00:38:20.059 --> 00:38:23.880
That's exactly. You are a delight. I want everyone to
867
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:26.500
get this book. Please get it. It's called Power Moves.
868
00:38:26.860 --> 00:38:32.070
It's a beautiful title. Ignite your confidence and become a force.
869
00:38:32.280 --> 00:38:34.550
I'm ready to run a half marathon right now. I
870
00:38:34.550 --> 00:38:36.230
was going to say a full one, but let's be real.
871
00:38:36.250 --> 00:38:36.530
Yeah.
872
00:38:37.130 --> 00:38:38.809
Thank you so much, Sarah. I appreciate it.
873
00:38:38.849 --> 00:38:39.369
Thank you.
874
00:38:42.130 --> 00:38:45.090
Making Space with Hoda Kotb is produced by Alison Berger
875
00:38:45.170 --> 00:38:49.420
and Alexa Kosovecchia. along with Kate Saunders. Our associate audio
876
00:38:49.480 --> 00:38:53.639
engineer is Juliana Mosterilli. Our audio engineers are Bob Mallory
877
00:38:53.679 --> 00:38:58.320
and Katherine Anderson. Original music by John Estes. Bryson Barnes
878
00:38:58.380 --> 00:39:01.690
is our head of audio production. Missy Dunlop-Parsons is our
879
00:39:01.710 --> 00:39:05.409
executive producer. Libby Least is the executive vice president of
880
00:39:05.469 --> 00:39:06.550
Today and Lifestyle.
881
00:39:20.539 --> 00:39:25.170
This is an arrow. Mmm.
882
00:39:25.949 --> 00:39:31.940
And this is the sound of its minty bubbles. Conjuring
883
00:39:32.019 --> 00:39:39.860
melt in your mouth, pure bubbly joy. Melt into the
884
00:39:39.900 --> 00:39:43.079
moment with Aero's delicious peppermint bubbles.
885
00:39:43.099 --> 00:39:46.599
Aero, feel the bubbles melt.