Building Experiences That Bring People Together | Greg Marcus

NEWaukee: Welcome to another amazing episode of Making New Possible. My name is Angela Damiani and I am the CEO of New Walkie. ⁓ I have a really fun guest today. I have the CEO of Marcus Corporation, Greg Marcus, ⁓ on to talk about all things movie theaters, but actually we get into in-person experience and what it means to be a good steward as a predominant business leader. And the responsibility you have then to impact the culture and the social life of a city. So let's get into it today. Thank you so much for being on the program. Welcome, Greg. Hey Angela, how you doing? I'm doing great. How are you doing? Thank you for joining Making New Possible. Happy to be here. Thanks for having me. Of course. Well, I sort of said in our preambule a little bit. ⁓ obviously maybe you could start with like a broader overview of what Marcus Corporation is, but I thought I'd love to sort of drill down a little bit into your thoughts on the theater part of your business after you do that. I am the movie guy, so yeah. Well, you know, it's it's the Marcus Corporation. We we actually have a number of operating businesses where we we but the Marcus Corporation is the big one that everybody knows about. At least as it's c constituted, it's the public company and that has two operating businesses, ⁓ movie theaters, as you said, and hotels. ⁓ we're in full service hotels. And You know, it's ⁓ it's the hotels if you're you know, Milwaukee that you know. It's the Pfister, it's the St. Kate, it's the Hilton. We have other we actually have seventeen hotels around the country that we run. And they actually th and and the business has ⁓ as the Marcus Corporation has been in many businesses through the years. We we just turned ninety. We've been in re at one point restaurants were the biggest part of our business. We had big boys and KFCs and Applebee's and all all th that kind of stuff. ⁓ limited service lodging, which was budgetal, it became Baymont. ⁓ that was it then became the biggest part of our business and then we sold that and then now theaters are the biggest part of the business but the hotels are not too far. Mhm. And we also have a private group that my brother runs that owns ⁓ owns ⁓ a real estate business and ⁓ Verlow mattresses and ⁓ a bunch of restaurants that you would all know here in Milwaukee. We all know Nesto and Bridgewater and the Addison and bunch a lot of the third war kind of stuff, Smokeshack, Blue Bat, mm-hmm ⁓ you know, fun Local restaurants. Well, very, very diversified. but really a lot of public facing businesses. obviously Newwaukee's most known for its in person experiences. So that's really where I like to spend a lot of time thinking is like how do we get people into a an in real life setting? ⁓ and maybe that's yeah. Well I know, I feel like we're really kindred spirits that way. I remember you know when nobody wanted the pandemic to end, you were the one harping, you know, to bring things back and I thought, ⁓ God, this looks this is who this is who I need to get to be my champion when we want to like try to turn the night market back on because Greg gets it. Like we need in person experiences. what do we do? You know, it's Humans were meant to you know in the in the in the in the pa height of the pandemic, you know, they would have me on these and more like they would be like these big meetings that weren't ha taking place in person and they'd bring people in who were dealing with the pandemic, and I sort of joked that I was the poster child for Schadenfry, which is pleasure in the misery of others, because they would have me on and they'd say, Well, you know, you if you think your life is bad right now, talk to this guy. Now at the end of the day, but I did say, you know, I believe in the importance and the and the and humans are meant to be together. We we we you know the years and years of evolution have programmed us to be together and we're stronger being together. You know, I always go back to this book called Bull and the Woman. Mm-hmm. This was written you know over a quarter twenty five years ago and it was making the observation that we were spending less time together and that ⁓ we were losing the bonds of social trust, which it doesn't just mean like I trust you to you know with something that's important. It's like more if I'm on the side of the road and I'm I grab a flat tire and someone comes to help me that I trust they're there to help me, not to not to rob me. Right. And so, you know, a and countries that they observed the countries that have high degrees of social trust did better on every scale, you know, social, economic, health, everything. And so they were positing that that people were spending less time in houses of worship, less time at Rotary, less time at bowling leagues. That's why they called it bowling alone. And so less time together. And I think, you know, unfortunately a quarter of a century has only showed that that's accelerated. And people get stuck in their silos and their houses and you wonder why the world seems to be so messed up right now. Well, you know, we need to be together more. We need to look for more opportunities to be This work from home thing. I'm sorry for people that that are watching this thing. I love working from home. That's great. But you're starting to be sitting at home and losing your mind. So ⁓ go out and be with people. Yeah, I agree. I mean I think it is an evolutionary thing. You know, ⁓ you know, if you think about like early Homo sapiens living in a cave trying to like defend themselves against a saber toothed tiger. Like they needed to be together in order to survive. ⁓ and even though our technology has allowed us to be connected in the last forty years in ways that we never could be without having physical proximity to one another. I think we a we really do need that for our health, for the like for society. I've been playing with the idea actually that we're in a credibility recession. and it's sort of the like long tail of the last twenty five years of social media and the sort of political discord and people, you know, in the last six years, things are open, your theaters are back, you know what I mean You can have people stay at your you know, go to your restaurants and not have to have a six foot, you know, distance or whatever. But there have been some shifts since that that I think haven't come back. P and I actually be curious to see what do you think of that? Like what is the thing that you most notice as a difference in this post COVID era, given all of your IRL businesses? Yeah, old people are lazy. I mean it's really it's it's the truth. I mean, you know, looking at just the movie demographics, the people who've come back are the what is it, the Gen Zs, the millenni the millennials, the the the the youngest groups are are back at the movies and in force want to be out, want to be amongst other people, which has always been the case. It's always been a business for youth. but we had a nice business of people who wanted to come see, you know, more dramas and comedies and stuff that was, you know, aimed at a little bit of an older audience. It wasn't the bulk of the business, but it was a big chunk of it. And That group can't seem to get themselves off the couch. It's it's really amazing. They really the inertia just it's like, ⁓ may as well just stay home tonight. Well that's that's not a that's not a really again, it's a good thing occasionally, but you know, I always I say you too you're talking about technology. I always say technology is very enabling until it is disabling. Mm-hmm. This is great. You know, historically maybe we would have been doing this on a conference call, you know, or or you know, and and you wouldn't see the images and you wouldn't see me smile or see me and say, ⁓ there's the movie guy, whatever. You know, that's this adds a dimension to it. That's enabling. It's disabling when you're on a Zoom with the person down the hall. Or you could have gotten together and you chose, well, let's just do Zoom because it's convenient, not because you had to. I you know, it's like at the office. This is this whole thing. I'm like I'm I was always a big return to work person. Like, ⁓ you know, you just think it's better for you. Well it is better for us, but actually think it's better for you, the the person working, because you do you know, you you get out and you meet people and you're mentored and whatever or you're mentoring and there's almost so much that goes on beyond just, you know, sitting there where you're processing the the the the job. you know well then and if you're any part of your job requires creative output, which you know that's basically all that we ⁓ we do at Newwaki is come up with new fun ideas. It's so hard to do that by yourself. I mean, I I I would say I was a little hesitant to return to the office post COVID. Mostly because our office was so sad and gray. And it dawned on me, you know what I mean, in early twenty three, like I feel like our output has really diminished. We need more time together. And if the issue is the office, we should just move offices. And we so we did. We bought a a building in Bayview and turned it into a clubhouse that is the best place. For actually coming together and ideating and actually being able to interact with each other. And what's interesting is in the last year and a half, ⁓ the people who come here every day are the Gen Z employees of ours. They're the ones that want to be together. And I think it's for exactly what you're saying. Like they need a network. They want to actually interact with one another. They don't want to be alone. I saw a really funny headline actually last week that said that. Gen Z is gonna bring them all back. ⁓ for the same reason. Like, you know, they actually want to have not just like the recommendation from TikTok or Instagram, but to go touch, feel, be, you know what I mean, in and around the things they could actually buy, which gave me a lot of ⁓ excitement to be honest with you. Like, okay, maybe this in person experience will be more coveted in spite of the fact that the technology has sort of accelerated in and away from us. I said it's great. Look look at you know, I it's the office. I'm I'm if you had a if you said, you know, I I got a I got a I have a problem with my let's pick today where it's gonna be a hundred, my air conditioner. I need to wait home at home for the air conditioning guy to show up and I you know, I'd l but I need to do my meetings, that's what the technology that's very enabling. That's great. Stay home and take care of what you've got to take care of. But You know, stay home in your pajamas all day and, you know, d st run over to Starbucks. That's that's not that's disabling. That's not enabling. So use the technology to be enabling, then let's let's lever it so that people can otherwise in the old days it's like I gotta go to work, how am I gonna get this done and let's make it miserable or I wanna take my kid and I want my kid to have their I want to be able to drive my kid to school, so I want to take my first meeting on so fine. That's enabling. It's disabling when you just choose not to Well yeah, and to your point, we were talking about why people even twenty five years ago were opting out of those in person experiences. I think the the long term effect is just sort of the lack of trust. And so the antidote to that is more exposure to one another. You know what I mean? Like you when you have more exposure to one another, you actually make eye contact. You see someone for their whole person and not maybe the comments that are on a screen. It's so easy to sort of disembody someone when you're only seeing the text version of them. Absolutely. And well I mean lots I mean I can think of a thousand things that are wrong. But I think all but but first of all I think that chemically something happens in your brain when you see someone, when you smell somebody, when your senses are activated, your brain does change. I'm certain of that. How you perceive something. So whether it's going to a movie, watching it at home is different than than the just just physically how how your brain perceives it is different than if you watch it with other people in a theater. And you know, I think that No, that that's that that that that's that's really, really very ⁓ important and what makes going to the movies, you know, different. I always say though and it's not just that, it's the memories and it's whether it's the memories of ⁓ you know, I spent a bunch of time in high school with my buddies and we all went over to the theater all the time, that was fun, or you know, I always say like right now, and I'll use Toy Story Five, a great movie. I absolutely loved it. I saw it this weekend and it was so good. And you'd think, okay, Toy Story Five? Really? Still yeah, really excellently made movie. And but, you know, I said, you know, twenty twenty years from now, I'll take the number zero or below of kids who say adults at that point say, No, I remember my first movie. My parents they took me into the to the family room and we we turn on the TV and we watch Toy Story Five. I mean, no one's going to say that. But there will be kids who say, You know what, I remember my parents took me to my first movie. Mm-hmm. Yeah, and I think that's exactly right. It's of course now with streaming content you can access whatever it is you want to access. But what you're describing is how that went from ⁓ you know, a piece of content into an experience. Who did you go with? Was it a first date? You know what I mean? Like I feel like you remember all of the other little parts around it, even maybe more than the film itself. absolutely. No, absolutely absolutely you're absolutely right. Again, enabling people to see anything you want anytime. That's great. I mean, you know, you want to watch T T how many times we used to sit at home and say there's nothing to watch. Okay, you find something to watch, great. If you're at home and it's the time to be entertained at home, that's great. But when you start using it as a crutch to not leave Which is what a a lot of the older crowd is doing. ⁓ I just wait and watch it at home. I can watch that movie at home. It's not a spectacle, which is so stupid. It's not I'm sorry it's so stupid. It's just not doesn't make any sense to say that that it that that if it's not a spectacle I don't want to go see it in a theater, that I don't want to spend a few extra bucks. It's it's really more do I wanna be out amongst people and that's and and when you think about your cheapest form of entertainment, you can say, ⁓ movies are expensive, but well, compare it to going to a concert or compare it to going To a baseball game or a football game or or whatever other thing you could possibly think of doing where you want to be around people. Movies actually are pretty reasonably priced. Yeah, absolutely. I'd love to know one thing you think people immediately notice you know, before a movie starts, from your iconic like kinda ⁓ talking heads to loyalty, you know, your digital engagement, the things that you you know, you are a Milwaukee icon. I'm curious How has the pre-show marketing changed in the theater business, maybe besides you becoming the star of the show in years past? Well, I mean, if you gotta go back all the way. First of all, yeah, that's that's I never intended to be the star of the show. I didn't ⁓ that that was not where that started. It wasn't like I was thinking one time I I I I when I told the story of how I ended up on the screens and 'cause ⁓ and I and I was doing it with our theater managers who I'd been doing it now long enough that a lot of them turned over and probably didn't know the story and I you know, for those of you who think I'm this like giant egomaniac that just wants to see myself on the movie screen, I said, you know, okay, anyone in this room please raise your hand if you like seeing pictures of yourself. Of which of course no one raised their hand 'cause they don't like seeing pictures of themselves. And ⁓ I said, Well, imagine seeing yourself on fifty to seventy feet of screen when you go to a movie. It's it's not easy to look at yourself on a movie screen. Trust me on this one. ⁓ but it became something that was important and part of what we do and it gives it a local flavor and ⁓ makes it gives a connection to the business that that that really hard for anybody else to do because our names are on the feeder as as opposed to some of our other competitors where it's just a brand name, it's not necessarily a family's name. The the the but you know, the pre-show, I mean you've got to go if you go back I mean, originally there was like not much to it. I mean there was it was, you know, a word a word jumble, some slides that that maybe played off a slide projector for local businesses, you know, the dry cleaner and a local restaurant or two and then you know, we'd move into the trailers at showtime. It was trailers and you'd see ⁓ you know, probably fifteen minutes of trailers and then ⁓ and then the movie started. We put up maybe a thing for, you know, get ⁓ and M's and popcorn at the concession stand to pitch the concession stand and that was about it. ⁓ over time it actually was going on in Europe much longer, advertising became a much more important part of what what we were doing and so helping to ⁓ you know deal with the cost of running a movie theater which the economics if follow public companies it's we we're not you know we it's it's not the easiest business. the but so the so we started and then that we started with the ads. Now the ads typically ran up until showtime for us. And so that was what we call the pre show. And we have a vendor that puts those together and goes out and looks for national but the We have ⁓ and so you get you know a lot of ads that run. It's basically an ad show with we've actually begged them to put some more content in there to get people to come and and see it. But those ads run up until showtime and ⁓ with a little bit of ⁓ maybe some behind the scenes stuff or some comedy. We've they've actually they have added it over time to give to add a little bit of meat to that bone of advertising that runs up until showtime. And then at showtime we moved to trailers. Now in the recent years we've added a few a few ads because those are that's very 'cause by app time most people start to get in their seats and it's very valuable and so people wanted to reach the customer. You know, we've tried to keep our pre-show from the from the showtime to when it goes to about fifteen minutes. When we get when it gets to be busier in the summer we can stretch out a few more minutes and if I'm if I'm on the screen longer th I try to only have it a minute, but like I have one I know it's running, it's two minutes right now 'cause it's actually a promotion for a movie for a super Three but which actually turned out sort of funny. ⁓ the actual cast of Super Troopers is in the is in the piece with me. Well that's cool. But over time that has been an interesting change where we've started to do more with talent. I've done some really I mean I've done some really interesting things with with some with some really interesting people that I never anticipated, you know, n and and this is all never anticipated. I can go back to the story of how I even ended up on the screen because it was never anticipated. But I did a thing with Kevin Costner for Horizons. I did a thing with with the comedian's name ⁓ from Parkson ⁓ Parkson Rec, ⁓ the Indian comedian. He was he was snippets. I can't think of him. Yes, but I know exactly what you're talking about. But the we we actually made him laugh, which is hard to do, you know, they don't like to break break the break that and ⁓ There's some good outtakes. It was like we're out where we were messing around and I was making him laugh. And I've done ⁓ I did the thing with Super Troopers guys. I did I've done a no ⁓ William H. Macy, I did a thing with him which was so cool for the old people in the audience. I did that we and the the one that was the most interesting and to me the most meaningful, I don't know that it that it meant much was I was you know, I was a big Rob Reiner fan. I was very I was very into the movies. I went to film school and in the late eighties, early nineties, Rob Reiner made a string of movies that were just incredible. When Harry met Sally, a few good men Stand by Me. But his first one was Spinal Tap. And when Spinal Tap two came out, the team said, Would you like to film something with the guys from Spinal Tap and and ⁓ and Rob Reiner? And I'm like, please I went last summer about a year ago and I filmed with them. I've and I have all the video, twenty I've like twenty minutes of me just hanging out and just we were just ripping for twenty minutes. Which somehow we pieced into a trailer. And it was amazing and I loved being with them and we had a lot of fun. I traded an email with Rob Reiner afterwards And I thought, well, maybe I'll see this guy again. And then he I know, it's sad. So sad. But it was but it was an incredibly it was an incredibly interesting experience to do it. And so I've had lots of really fun things. But again I never planned it. I didn't plan this. I was the way it all started was I was the co chair, one of the co chairs of the United Way campaign for Milwaukee, ⁓ in twenty twelve. So this is now fourteen years ago. And I was coming in every day and Anne's Day and there was the marketing person there and Erin Irv coming once a week and she would and you and I'd get the update on what's going on with the campaign and you know me, I'm I'm like to mess around and joke around and have a good time and Anne said, You know, have you ever thought about going on the screen and doing you give us a a PSA, you know, public service announcement when the campaign's going on, this is the fall. You you know, would you go on the screen and make the appeal yourself? I'm like, I've never thought of it. Let me think about it. And I came back to him and said, Well if I could welcome people 'Cause and I'd always sort of wonder, you know, people don't come to the movies for me. Of course not, but I don't think you hurt the experience. I well that was my point. Yeah, that's you know, they don't come from me, they don't come for ⁓ they don't come for Marcus theaters, they're coming for Superman, they're coming for Toy Story, they're coming for the movie that's playing. That's what's really drawing the people in. But you know, if I could welcome them and make ⁓ laugh or have a little, you know, smile and or at least laugh at me, whatever it would be, you know, I think that's probably a good thing. So I said, if I could do that, I'll make the pitch. And she's like, You make the pitch, you can do whatever you want. And I said, Okay. And so I got on and you know, I started like the first year I did it, it was on for three months and my parents' friends would see me and they'd say, ⁓ Greg, you look so good on the screen and like you're old and blind, but okay. And then I just noticed more and more people were starting to notice me and People that I th like you know, I thought it was that it w thought it'd be important to to have have this feeling of being local, especially in markets where they don't know us at all and not know. who I was. And then even our employees, it's been this is the most interesting thing. I noticed our employees started knowing who I was and they wanted to be meet me. In the old days they would never know who I mean they they in Milwaukee and the few theaters I would get to, but as you start getting further out into the system they wouldn't know who I was and then maybe seeing a picture of me or a poster. But seeing me on the screen there and there, seeing me all the time completely changed sort of how they relate to me, which in a in a good way. And so We just said, okay, well, you know, I don't know that I'm I don't know that I'm helping the business, but I don't think I'm hurting it. And I think it's gonna be a lot of benefits. So I I think that there are plenty of benefits in that way. I'm curious actually, kinda going back to our like an original reflection on COVID, your organization's been around for ninety years, which is incredible. I can't believe some days that Newwaki is seventeen years old to think about getting to ninety seems impossibly hard. But you have like led through some like really like incredibly disruptive moments in the intend like entertainment industry. I'm curious like what are some of the biggest lessons you've learned about resilience or adaptation over time. One is sort of an affirmation of the way we operate our businesses, which is if I would tell you the one thing that got us through it was not having too much leverage. But if you really put not putting too much leverage on the buildings, you get through it, we're losing Ten fifteen million dollars a month in cash and up the door. Yeah. Just trying to keep up with the cost of doing we were trying to keep, you know, we had to let all we had to let so many people go. You know. But like, you know, I'll never forget the funniest thing, it was the craziest thing. You know, the PPP money came out. It was, I think, a story. Marcus took the PPP money. For us, be see, there were two ways that that worked with PPP. If you could be open for business and take PPP money and then you're basically defraying the cost of your labor. ⁓ you're getting your people that you're basically getting your work for free, but and you're still having an output, right? In our case, we were closed. And so for us to pay our employees, we weren't getting any benefit from paying our employees, other than wanting people to not have to go in unemployment and then not feel that that I mean it was a nightmare trying to get an unemployment and all the challenges. And we were just trying to help our employees out. And it had said we had zero benefit from PPP. I mean it just was and yet all markets took P P P. I mean it was Everyone did though. We did too. That's not that big of a deal. I don't feel like that's the Well, but there was a story in the paper about it. There were people who were taking it and they're giving it some were giving it back and it was because they were it was like, What do you need it for? You're you're you're actually you have revenue, you have no expenses now. What do you what do you need PPP for? For some people. For us, it was you know, didn't help us, but We were trying to take care of our employees. We kept a bunch of people on that we wanna you that we kept managers on as long as we could keep them on. We kept our senior leadership on. We had the it was an awful, awful time. But that having that, also being s having financial flexibility was helpful. Having great people around me. I you know, I mean I had a great my board is fantastic, they were boarding advisors as we worked through it. having Our senior leadership team, they all were, you know, working at a discount and trying to figure out how to get it done and how to keep us keep the keep us in business. It was it was a tough time, but it was incredible to see everybody come together. So be surrounded by great people and don't have too much leverage and that help you when you need it. Yeah. That makes perfect sense to me. What's one thing about the future of entertainment And audience behavior that you think people are still underestimating in this moment. Well I think that I think what are where I was talking about before, I think that the older crowd is underestimating the importance of getting out and how much better of an experience it is and how different it is. And now every every once in a while you'll hear someone ⁓ I haven't been to the movies in so long, I went, it was great. I'm like, Okay, well keep going. Yeah. Well you're very deeply involved in Milwaukee leadership and a variety of different nonprofits. I'm curious how has Milwaukee shaped your pz perspective as a business leader? You know, I don't know. That's it's I I would say that you know, it's being a part of a smaller community, maybe you know, it's we're not so small that we're a small town. I mean people might say we're small town, but but it's not really a small town, it's a big city. And yet it's a pretty tight knit community. Everybody knows one another and the importance of taking care of one another and sort of maybe the ethos of a family business applies to the ethos of a city where you're all in it together. Mm. Yeah. You can't really hide that way, right? Like you have to take care of each other. Especially Yeah, it's funny, someone will say, ⁓ you know, ⁓ the I I I you know, I I ⁓ I give anonymously. I'm like This town. Good luck. Maybe. But I was ⁓ I was at a local arts nonprofit last week and they have the big donor board up and the top donor is listed as anonymous. And I always think when I see that, like you gave anonymous lead, why do you have to have your name up there as anonymous? Just to have it be off the board. You know what I mean? But most people probably not probably know who it is. And on top of that, you know, there's an important side of that is you know leader's signal. And so when somebody gives us when Northwestern Mutual gives to somebody, everybody's paying attention. What who are they giving to? When when we give to some you when any when when when a leader is out in front of something, they're saying this is important and others then follow. And if they do it anonymously, they're missing that opportunity to signal that this is important. Yeah. Well, I have a question for you, but I'm gonna answer from my perspective first. ⁓ what role do you think companies like Marcus play in shaping our culture? Cultural and social life in the city. And I'll give you an example of how Marcus shaped Newwalkie. So back in 2014, when we were on the West Wisconsin Avenue task force and asked to sort of host a fun party while all of the grown-ups in the room were trying to develop that corridor of downtown. ⁓ we asked you if we could host a party right in front of the Hilton. ⁓ and I think you guys even helped us by like extending you know, extension of premise so we could actually serve beer. But that I would say like com completely transformed some of the larger narratives about West Wisconsin Avenue and transformed the way that Newwalkie operated for a decade after that, ⁓ while that was still under our management. And so from my perspective, I don't know I don't know if you understood at that time how like stimulating that was from a cultural or social perspective, but I'd love to know, you know, you have multiple businesses you have to run and you're publicly traded and you have a board and you have lots of obligations. But my perception of you as a leader is that you understand you have a role to play in our culture here. And so I'm curious your reflections on that being the leader of Markets Corporation. Sure. You know look at and I I make this speech to our ⁓ to our people all the time. You know You have to you have to give back. You have to you have to you have to make sure that that our community is strong. That that's really important. Especially for ⁓ for two reasons. Well one is I think this is probably the most important reason, and that is, you know, if you have the capability, you have the responsibility. It's it's that's simple. You often I I do believe that you have t if you've been given so much, you have to help take care of others and that's just simply to me the my mom said you can't be a taker of the world. That's just the right thing to do. But in addition to it being the right thing to do, for our businesses, they're not movable. The Fisher isn't moving anywhere. The Hilton on West Wisconsin Avenue, if the hi if that doesn't I mean and so much good has happened from what that work we did, right? From the mall getting redone to the to the to the Symphony Hall to all the things that have happened to the to the redo of the convention center. So much good stuff has happened along that side, that that corridor. ⁓ If the h if that quarter languishes, the Hilton languishes. 'Ca we can't move it. Can't move the fister, can't move our movie theaters. We have to have a strong community where people want to live and work and play and be. And so you have to f for us, we have no choice but to do that because it's good for the business. But more importantly again, do it 'cause it's the right thing and then we we try to be, you know, good good community citizens because it's good for our businesses. And we do have these businesses that lend themselves to helping to being a part of You know, culture, you know, it's like Life events happen at the Pfister or the St. Kate or the Hilton? You get ma who you how many people I got married. I got married at the at the Pfister. How many people get married at our get our you know, at at our places, or have important meetings, or have things that are that really that are going on or or I you know, think how much money we raise at the Pfister for charities for these bills that we have. And I I haven't I've I've asked, I've no no one's ever done a study. How much more money do you make as a charity being at the Pfister? I mean it's got to be measurable. 'cause I think that we can you can charge the most, you can do the put the most people in. It really it puts a patina on it. It's it's really important. So we're able to that that's it that's an important, you know, thing you where you do right and do good at the same time. You know, it's the it's the it's that old mantra. The You know, the Saint Kate. I mean, think about the Saint Kate. I mean the fister is like okay, it's a grand dame hotel. It's what people see when they come to town, when they're you're trying to you're trying to get someone to move here and they gotta stay somewhere and you really think it's an important person, you put ⁓ up in the in one of our hotels. ⁓ you know. Now the St. Kate has really come along to be another important contributor to that, not only from the standpoint of trying to impress people that come here, the statement that we make with the art that we've put into it, you know, that it's that it's that that what we the and we and we've had lots of different artists making lots of different statements. And you know, and I'm I'm okay with with that. I want I want people to have a a discussion and they and disagree. That that's okay too, or not maybe not like something they see. I don't in fact the way we designed it was we said, look. in in the guest rooms. It has to just be sort of I w I don't even want to use the word decorative, but not not not controversial. You know, some would say the only reason to make art is to make a statement and to be controversial, but sometimes you make art for the beauty of it. And in our guest rooms 'cause you don't have a choice. Once you're in the guest room you really can't leave you have to you can leave, you have to check out of the hotel. I mean, you know, ⁓ you you can't You so so any and and and on the guest rooms have all local Wisconsin based artists, from whether it's the the printing company that did the the the lampshades to the photos that are on the walls to the bed s skirts that are on that were designed by a local artist, to the tile that's in the bathrooms that was done by a local artist. Those are all local artists. But once you get beyond the guest rooms, I'm okay with art being you ⁓ controversial. And I wanna I don't wanna poke people in the eye, and I don't wanna be obnoxious about it. But if you if it it doesn't have to become you can walk away from it if you don't like it. Mm-hmm. Yeah, it should evoke something. Yeah. Mm. That's amazing. Well I really appreciate your stewardship. I don't know that you ha I hear you that your businesses are not movable and that there's an economic develop ⁓ benefit to you having a vibrant community around it. But I do I do tend to read you as a cultural leader in addition to a business one and so I thank you for your stewardship of both. My last question for you is for young entrepreneurs or future business leaders, what's some advice you would give to someone leading a legacy company or hoping that one day the company they've started will be a legacy business like Marcus Corporation? You know, well, I think it's a few things. One we talked about is You know, don't don't be don't be over levered. Leave yourself flexibility. If we're talking about business, you know, we talk about people are your most important asset. And that's what I was talking about before. The the the the way we phrase it is people are our most important asset. We're in a service business. That makes it even more so. But I don't care what business you're in, you know. ⁓ us get through that pandemic are our ⁓ you know, are our most important assets. And You know, as my dad likes to say, it's tough to ⁓ soar the eagles if you're stuck on the ground with the turkeys. So make sure that you're surrounded by people who are maybe smarter than you. It would be really helpful to have people who are smarter than you around you because that will make you better. I always people I always tell people like, Don't be worried about you know, so some people say, Well I s if I hire someone really smart, they'll take my job. I'm like, I don't think that's ever happened here. You know, n no one's gonna say, Wow, you know, ⁓ you know Bill hired this great guy and and he's out now. Bill's out. We hired we took the great guy. No, it's more like, well Bill was smart enough to hire that great guy and now we've got both Bill and the great guy, so that's that's fantastic. ⁓ you know, there's the old saying, you're surrounded you're judg you you are you are judged by the people you know, you are surrounded by, the company you keep. And I always say if you surround yourself with great people you will be judged. Greatly. Unfortunately. So I I sort of think those are the ⁓ the most important do and be a part of your community and give back and and engage with people and and be patient. You know, things are cyclical, things come and come and go. There's th they come and go in cycles and the there'll be times when it's really hard and times when it's really good. Just try to enjoy the good when it's there and know the good will be back when it's hard. Mm, that's great. That's really great. Well, thank you so much for your time today, Greg. Thanks for coming on Making New Possible. Absolutely. Thanks for having me.