You're Learning Too Much (And It's Holding You Back) | Book Club | 'Lean Learning' by Pat Flynn | 316

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Welcome back to Making Good, the podcast here to help you do better marketing so you can make a bigger impact.
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I'm your host, Lauren Tilden, and this is episode 316.
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today we are back with this month's edition of Making Good Book Club.
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And we're talking about lean Learning how to achieve more by doing Less by Pat Flynn.
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If this is your first time tuning into a Making Good Book Club episode, here's the deal.
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Every month, my amazing book club co-host Charelle Griffith and I discuss a book that we think can help move the needle in your small business, and we share our takeaways specifically for small business owners.
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As I mentioned, this month we're talking about lean learning by Pat Flynn.
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This book is all about a mindset shift that many of us need to hear, which is that more learning isn't always better.
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In fact, constantly consuming information can keep us stuck.
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Lean learning encourages us to pursue just in time learning, where we focus on what we need to know right now so we can actually take action and make progress.
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In this episode, we talk about what just in time learning actually looks like in practice, the concept of junk sparks and how to filter your creative ideas.
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Why taking messy action beats endless research, how to use voluntary force functions to finally get things done and so much more.
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If you've ever felt stuck in a learning mode, listening to all the podcasts, reading all the books, doing courses, but not actually moving forward, this book is for you.
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Stay tuned through the end of the episode so that you don't miss the book.
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We announced is our choice for next month's edition of Making Good Book Club.
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If you enjoy this podcast episode, here's something you can do to help us spread the word.
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Take a screenshot of your podcast player while you're listening to the episode, so right now and tag us on Instagram stories.
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I am at Lauren Tilden.
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We would be so, so grateful for your support.
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Okay, let's get into this book club episode about lean learning.
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Charelle, welcome back to Making Good Bud Club.
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Hello.
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Thank you for having me back.
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We are this month talking about lean learning, how to achieve more by learning less.
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Mm-hmm.
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From Pat Flynn and I brought this book to the table.
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I went to a conference back in June and Pat Flynn was, if not like, the keynote speaker, one of them.
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And everyone got this book.
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And the concept of it really resonated with me.
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Like, let's stop the overload of learning, learning, learning, learning, and kind of move into doing a little bit more, which has been, um.
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challenge that I've, I've worked on myself is like, I, my instinct is the learn, the, the overconsumption of information and the under action.
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So
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Yeah.
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yeah, I thought it'd be a good one.
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I had not read it yet, and I got a Instagram message from Shell, uh, a couple weeks ago, and she was reading it.
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That made me think she was not enjoying it as much as we might have hoped.
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So, um, yeah, I mean.
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You don't have to necessarily say like, I liked it or not I liked it, or, or whatever.
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But what is your take
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Take on it.
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kind of the book and what it's about?
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So it's obviously around this idea of overconsumption, which when you put it on the table.
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Also super appealed to me.
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I think it's super easy to get focused on learning, learning, learning.
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Obviously I'm a book big reader, but I will say consume co podcasts, watch YouTube videos, dunno how many courses I've paid for.
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Like I do all like, I could learn all that.
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I'm a born geek and I'm proud of it.
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So, but this idea of like achieving more by learning less has been something that's been on my mind.
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The last few years I've definitely read less books.
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There was a phase where I read and blogs about a book every week, whereas now I probably read like half that.
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So it seemed the concept seemed good.
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In the actual book, I would probably say is this idea of like just in time learning like that I think is the premise of being like, how do we learn what we actually need to learn at the time?
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We need to learn it so we can apply it straight away.
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And then there are a range of other tactics around it to help us with the best implementation possible.
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That's my like angle of it.
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Yeah, I felt that it maybe was longer than it needed to be,
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Yes.
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of my, my criticism of it.
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But I did think there were a lot of really useful concepts
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is'cause you love concepts,
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I love concepts love a concept.
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I mean, what is there besides concepts.
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old stories that you also love.
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Yeah.
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So what do you like if you don't like concepts or stories?
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yes, I love a story.
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I love a concept.
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and I did enjoy the book.
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In particularly, I think if I had read this when I started my business, I think I would've liked it even more
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Okay.
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I wouldn't have been as.
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Like, I feel like I'm pretty battle tested with this, this concept of like over learning, wasting time with learning, not actually doing enough.
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And like I've kind of come to the other end already before having read the book of you just have to start doing and, you know, so like, I've kind of internalized this concept before reading the book, but.
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I think it would've been really useful if I was earlier on in my business journey and hadn't kind of suffered through it and had to learn myself.
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so the book has eight main chapters, and I think we'll just kind of go through each one and talk about
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Okay.
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stood out to us.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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Do you wanna start with inspiration overload
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In inspiration.
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selective curiosity?
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Yeah, so the one with all the concepts is, so this one had two very different ideas from the beginning around breaking down how people get inspired.
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So it talks about this idea of passion driven inspiration versus necessity driven inspiration.
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So a passion driven inspiration is a genuine curiosity.
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That makes you like, you have enthusiasm and therefore you're like, I just wanna find out more about this and I want to learn more.
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And you, you are driven from a genuine interest, curiosity, passion, like that's what my take of it.
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Whereas necessity is more like it's something you need.
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To be doing.
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So for example, he shares in the story about when he got made redundant and therefore he was like, I need to find another way to make money.
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And so he is having to learn and find out information in order to do something specifically.
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'cause he had that challenge now of like, I need to make, I need to find a new way to make money.
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So a passion is probably coming from a, this is just something inside of you that excites you.
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Necessity is more around.
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Like reality of situation I suppose, or what's going on in the world.
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And it wasn't like neither was right or wrong, but it's just that will impact your Then take on like fulfilling your inspiration is knowing which side of the coin you are
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I kind of blew right past that section.
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The
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because you did
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stood out to me
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well, the matrix.
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The matrix, the inspiration matrix.
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I love a matrix.
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One of my favorite like tools for prioritizing is called the Eisenhower Matrix, which I talk about all the time on the podcast.
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So I love a matrix.
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one is basically a way of categorizing.
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Ideas for things to spend your time on.
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Yeah.
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Um, so like, should I start crocheting?
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Should I like launch a new business?
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Should I do a virtual summit?
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Should I start a new weekly newsletter?
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Like, whatever, any idea of like, oh, I should spend my time on this.
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You can put it into the matrix and based on two criteria.
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Classify it as one of four things.
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So basically like on the Y axis, like things at the top that are more exciting to you, things at the bottom that are less exciting to you.
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And then on the X axis, the horizontal line.
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On the left hand side, it's things that are lower priority and the right hand side, it's things that are higher priority.
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So you ask yourself two questions for each thing.
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Like, should I start crocheting?
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Is it more, is that exciting, high, exciting, low, exciting?
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Is that high priority, low priority?
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And based on where it is, you pop it in the matrix.
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I think one of the key takeaways here was there's this category of things that are.
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Both not that exciting and low priority.
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He calls them junk sparks.
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This is just like the thing that comes to mind that probably is gonna pass within a few days where it's like, Hmm, maybe I should like start a baking blog.
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You know?
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It's like just, it's just kind of a passing thought.
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It's actually pretty easy to latch onto all these things and like put all these effort into
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Yeah.
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go down, spend a whole day in a YouTube rabbit hole about starting a baking blog, which is a total waste of time if it is low priority and low exciting.
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So the concept is like these junk sparks.
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Just try to figure out how to recognize that before you invest all this time and
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Yeah,
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and let yourself let it go.
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I, I do think that was useful.
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And I imagine,'cause obviously there's a lot of creatives on the podcast, so I feel as if the junk spark, category is getting even bigger.
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My version of this is I buy the url, like I get an idea and I buy UR l.
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I'm like, why have you got all these URLs?
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Because I was like, oh, I was gonna do that.
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I was gonna do that.
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So yeah, I could totally resonate this idea like we're creators, that's why we're in business.
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Like most of us have got hundreds of ideas.
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Whizzing around all the time, but I did think the matrix was good to be like, actually, you have to work out which ones to spend your time on and how much time you are spending in the different categories.
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Mm-hmm.
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So just to kind of briefly go over the other ones, if it's exciting, but low priority, this is basically hobbies.
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He calls them recreational interests.
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This is stuff to do in your own time, but like really let it have its place.
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Mm-hmm.
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Then there's things that are high priority, high exciting.
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These are passion pursuits.
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These are important, like should be prioritized.
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And then also critical commitments.
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This is high priority, but less exciting.
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So those also need to be done.
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Like you can't just ignore the critical commit because they may feel less exciting to you.
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I thought this was a really, really useful concept.
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This is one of the things that.
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I think stood out to me most from the
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Hmm.
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The other concept also from this chapter that I really liked was this, we called it 88 Miles per Hour, was sort of the subheading,
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Yeah.
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um, which is from Back to
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But the future is obsessed with it.
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he's obsessed with it.
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This is the speed of the DeLorean perhaps.
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I don't know exactly what 88 miles per hour has to do with anything, but he calls it this.
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But the basic idea is like when you're trying to figure out, you know, you've done this matrix and maybe you still have a ton of things in each bucket, you know, like, and you still need to narrow it down more than that.
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the idea is basically to imagine that you invested a bunch of time.
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One by one in each of these things.
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Fast forward your life to a year from now and try to visualize like what would your life look like if you really invested in learning crochet, let's say, or doing a virtual summit or whatever it is that you're thinking about adding to your plate really like putting yourself through this visualization exercise can help you get a sense of like, do I actually want the things that that might bring or.
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Or not.
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So I also liked that.
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Yeah, no, I thought it was a good exercise as well.
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I think there's,'cause then also you get to really imagine.
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Like it's pushing yourself to think about what's the reality of giving that time to something to be like, where are you gonna be?
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And then you're like, do I even want that?
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'cause sometimes something can feel really good for the short term, but when you think about the reality in the long term, it's a different story.
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mm-hmm.
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All right.
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Chapter two is Choosing Action over Information.
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I feel like this is really the heart to me of the book In this chapter, he's telling a story about when he.
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Was first starting out and he had hired a coach, and he would meet with this coach like every week or every couple weeks at the Cheesecake Factory, and his coach would give him all these different things to do and ideas and next steps.
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And every single time he'd like just sit down and take notes.
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So he's telling the story of one time they're there having this meeting and the coach gives him something to do and he starts taking notes and the coach stops him and says, just get started.
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Like, stop taking notes.
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Stop.
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Like.
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know, documenting everything, just start taking action.
00:13:44.399 --> 00:13:58.019
so this was sort of his way of presenting this idea that like, there's always more you can know about a certain topic, and knowing more doesn't necessarily make you better equipped.
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In fact, sometimes, like in this example, it slows you way down.
00:14:01.854 --> 00:14:02.144
Yeah.
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you.
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We tend to like get way.
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More than we actually need in order to take action.
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Um, there's a pie chart that he shows where it's like basically a circle with a tiny sliver in it and in the circle it's.
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All the information there is to know about a given to topic, and there's a tiny sliver that that is labeled all the information you actually need to know to get started.
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Idea here is like as little information, like minimum amount of information is better.
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And he introduces this keystone question, which he says is inspired by Tim Ferris, which is, if this were easy, what would it look like?
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This seems to be the question that he asks himself for, like any next thing he's trying to do.
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Basically ask yourself, if this were easy, what would it look like?
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And I think the, the sort of thinking behind that is progress is iterative.
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Mm-hmm.
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know, like you start, just do the easy version of it.
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It doesn't have to be all out, all the bells and whistles right
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Yeah.
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He like,
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just to get started, you just need to make it easy
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yeah, like he says.
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The other thing is, some people call it the minimal viable action.
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Um, and this idea, like the shortest, simplest version of what it takes to get a result and that.
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Like the question for some reason didn't connect with me, but the idea of a minimum viable action did, because that's what you're saying about like what is just the shortest, simplest thing you do.
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It's like just to get going.
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What's like that first action and that's, you do that and then you can worry about the next one and then the one after that, but start doing something.
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He talks a little bit in this chapter about mistakes.
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Um,
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mistakes and failure.
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I, mistakes and failure.
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I mean, I didn't think there was anything super groundbreaking here.
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I think to
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No.
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concept was just like, mistakes are good.
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They mean you're doing things, they mean you're moving forward.
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There's always something you can learn when you make mistakes and you just kind of pick yourself up and move forward.
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I took away the main thing was being like.
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Just the value of mistakes, like you said, it's about learning.
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It's about in the same way, rather than just learning from reading and learning from other things.
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Actually a lot of this was like your learnings, if you pay attention to your mistakes, are gonna help you to keep more moving forward faster and better.
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It's all that iteration thing, like you said before.
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Yeah.
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All right.
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Chapter three, the Power of Champions Harnessing mentorship, and Community.
00:16:42.278 --> 00:16:45.818
Yeah, so this one's definitely like you cannot do it alone.
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That's the the short version.
00:16:49.489 --> 00:16:56.208
And you need to have the right people in your corner, which I think as business owners we're all like, put it a number of times.
00:16:56.298 --> 00:16:59.359
He definitely has a different couple of categories of people.
00:16:59.599 --> 00:17:06.648
So we have people he classes like his friends and family peers, virtual mentors and personal mentors.
00:17:07.278 --> 00:17:09.318
And this idea that really you want to have.
00:17:10.594 --> 00:17:15.519
People from all different categories, ideally is what you should be aiming for.
00:17:16.349 --> 00:17:22.410
And just to clarify, a, the peers are like other people in the trenches with you, like building businesses.
00:17:22.859 --> 00:17:26.490
The virtual mentors are people who you may not actually have a relationship with.
00:17:26.654 --> 00:17:26.994
Oh, yeah.
00:17:27.690 --> 00:17:35.375
a podcaster that you like, or a YouTube channel or a blogger who like creates content around something that's relevant to you.
00:17:37.535 --> 00:17:39.724
With a personal mentor you actually have a relationship with.
00:17:40.640 --> 00:17:41.539
Right, right.
00:17:42.428 --> 00:17:45.758
And he's just kind of suggesting that you're intentional about this,
00:17:45.758 --> 00:17:45.978
Mm.
00:17:46.167 --> 00:17:48.087
which I think is a good idea.
00:17:48.087 --> 00:17:59.458
He does suggest, like with virtual mentors, identify one virtual mentor whose work really resonates with you, and then commit to diving deep into their content, which I think is interesting.
00:17:59.458 --> 00:18:07.073
Like rather than just listening to whatever comes up on your podcast feed from a bunch of different people who probably have a lot of different perspectives.
00:18:07.857 --> 00:18:08.367
You know,
00:18:08.528 --> 00:18:08.817
Yeah.
00:18:09.268 --> 00:18:11.968
really thinking critically of like, okay, this person.
00:18:12.718 --> 00:18:17.518
Has the vibe and the approach that resonates with me and like going deeper there.
00:18:17.653 --> 00:18:21.073
You don't have to tell us who, but would you actually have one person in mind?
00:18:22.948 --> 00:18:38.097
I definitely have some people who like I really pay attention and I wouldn't say I've done a lot of these deep dives like he's suggesting where, you know, you spend, well actually kind of, I have like, especially when I first.
00:18:38.938 --> 00:18:40.948
introduced to someone, I'll go
00:18:41.117 --> 00:18:41.407
Okay.
00:18:41.877 --> 00:18:43.798
consume a lot of their content at once.
00:18:46.647 --> 00:18:52.557
yeah, I would say I have a few people who I especially pay attention to
00:18:52.722 --> 00:18:52.962
Okay.
00:18:53.218 --> 00:18:54.538
people kind of on my radar.
00:18:54.613 --> 00:18:55.093
Yeah.
00:18:55.272 --> 00:18:55.603
Okay.
00:18:55.738 --> 00:18:56.008
you?
00:18:56.982 --> 00:19:03.012
I, I think I struggled when I was trying to think of like, if I had to choose someone, I was like, there isn't someone I think like you.
00:19:03.012 --> 00:19:04.843
There's a few people that I'd be like, oh.
00:19:05.952 --> 00:19:17.173
There's a pool of people that would be like, I'm particularly interested, but I think especially like the way he talks about it, I feel like he's managed to really, I think it's that idea of like, what really resonates with you.
00:19:17.173 --> 00:19:23.262
I think he, I feel like I pick bits from different people, if that makes sense, rather.
00:19:23.292 --> 00:19:27.373
And the thought of actually trying to find one person that fully, I thought was quite challenging.
00:19:30.238 --> 00:19:32.788
You like Denise Duffield Thomas.
00:19:33.042 --> 00:19:33.553
Yeah.
00:19:33.553 --> 00:19:33.563
Yeah.
00:19:33.597 --> 00:19:35.038
comes to mind for, for me,
00:19:35.107 --> 00:19:35.397
Yeah.
00:19:35.403 --> 00:19:35.742
Yeah.
00:19:36.387 --> 00:19:39.442
Um, Yeah.
00:19:40.002 --> 00:19:44.502
I mean, yeah, if I had to just choose her and only follow her for the rest of life, I'm sure, I'm sure I'd be okay.
00:19:45.655 --> 00:19:50.935
and for those who, that doesn't ring a bell, we covered at least one of her
00:19:51.070 --> 00:19:53.471
Chill and prosper is the one we did,
00:19:53.556 --> 00:19:54.280
And prosper.
00:19:54.431 --> 00:19:54.996
the most recently.
00:19:54.996 --> 00:19:55.276
Yeah.
00:19:56.530 --> 00:19:56.951
Yeah.
00:19:57.911 --> 00:19:59.230
so I'll link to that in the show notes.
00:19:59.230 --> 00:20:01.990
And she is, she's like a money mindset.
00:20:02.185 --> 00:20:03.266
mindset mentor.
00:20:03.506 --> 00:20:04.016
Yeah.
00:20:04.780 --> 00:20:05.171
Yeah.
00:20:06.490 --> 00:20:07.330
All right.
00:20:07.510 --> 00:20:10.060
The next chapter, protect your Progress.
00:20:11.134 --> 00:20:18.493
So this is where the idea of just in time information is like first, I think properly, mentioned, which is what I mentioned earlier in the intro.
00:20:18.973 --> 00:20:27.074
And this says about focusing precisely on the information required at the moment and intentionally blocking everything else out.
00:20:28.239 --> 00:20:28.659
Mm-hmm.
00:20:30.419 --> 00:20:32.878
And I think that is so, so hard.
00:20:34.064 --> 00:20:36.644
So, yeah, his whole thing is the lean learning process.
00:20:36.644 --> 00:20:37.183
Looks like.
00:20:37.213 --> 00:20:39.074
Identify the next steps in your journey.
00:20:39.463 --> 00:20:45.733
Gather the minimum amount of information required to complete that step, take action and complete the step, rinse and repeat.
00:20:46.034 --> 00:20:49.814
And in the diagram is he literally has got those three things.
00:20:49.814 --> 00:20:56.413
So like just, um, the next step just in time information, take action, go and run a wheel.
00:20:56.534 --> 00:21:02.894
And then there's just all the little boxes along the side of all the other information, and I think that's much easier.
00:21:03.284 --> 00:21:04.064
Easier said than done.
00:21:04.064 --> 00:21:15.433
Like I think even like what you just said, like not listening to another podcast when you're not meant to be like not scrolling through other people's stuff on social media, like ignoring all the emails that come into inbox like that is hard.
00:21:16.288 --> 00:21:16.888
Yeah.
00:21:17.878 --> 00:21:18.298
Yeah.
00:21:18.298 --> 00:21:20.009
And I guess I was thinking of it.
00:21:20.068 --> 00:21:21.778
I also really like this concept.
00:21:21.778 --> 00:21:24.419
I'm, gathering that you like this concept.
00:21:24.898 --> 00:21:34.229
Um, I, I also really like this concept, and I think when I'm thinking about it, it's like when I'm doing something new, that's when I go into deep dive
00:21:34.384 --> 00:21:54.763
Mm-hmm.
00:21:54.929 --> 00:21:59.368
had a course on how to do a launch with a wait list, like I would go all out.
00:21:59.368 --> 00:22:04.019
I would learn single thing there possibly would be to, to do that.
00:22:04.229 --> 00:22:06.719
And the result is like you just get really overwhelmed.
00:22:06.888 --> 00:22:07.108
Mm,
00:22:07.108 --> 00:22:09.179
You learn every possible way to do that.
00:22:09.179 --> 00:22:11.249
You can't figure out how you should do it.
00:22:11.459 --> 00:22:14.429
You learn like the really advanced strategies, which is not
00:22:14.653 --> 00:22:15.209
what you need right now.
00:22:15.209 --> 00:22:15.989
be starting.
00:22:17.098 --> 00:22:23.939
trying to find the discipline to like, just learn what you need to know right now and leave it at that.
00:22:24.298 --> 00:22:28.558
Then take the action, then start over and next time you learn a little more.
00:22:28.558 --> 00:22:34.769
Like I really like that concept and it's, it's against my instincts, but.
00:22:35.834 --> 00:22:43.183
I see how it's useful because it actually gets you into taking action rather than just, you know, staying in the learning phase,
00:22:43.439 --> 00:22:43.919
Yeah.
00:22:44.233 --> 00:22:48.223
things because you don't know enough or you feel like you don't know enough, et cetera.
00:22:48.433 --> 00:22:58.304
So I definitely thought it would be hard, and so I liked what he then wrote about dealing with fomo because I personally just think to try and ignore everything else would be really difficult.
00:22:58.723 --> 00:23:00.314
And so he talks about some like.
00:23:00.959 --> 00:23:03.088
Ways to maintain focus and drive action.
00:23:03.388 --> 00:23:05.068
And the first one in particular really spoke to me.
00:23:05.068 --> 00:23:07.528
So it was an implement a four later system.
00:23:07.828 --> 00:23:18.209
And I feel like this, actually, there's someone else that spoke about a very similar thing in a book we've read before, which this idea of like, sometimes the best thing you can do is just actually have like a waiting room.
00:23:18.778 --> 00:23:22.739
And so I think this was a waiting room for ideas, was what the other book spoke about.
00:23:22.888 --> 00:23:26.429
But in this case, it's like a waiting room for things you're allowed to read and consume.
00:23:26.818 --> 00:23:28.528
And I think just so that you are like.
00:23:29.054 --> 00:23:29.894
I'm not gonna forget it.
00:23:29.923 --> 00:23:31.634
It's not gonna discipline the ether forever.
00:23:31.814 --> 00:23:34.334
It's here, but that is not my priority right now.
00:23:35.683 --> 00:23:36.074
Yeah.
00:23:36.577 --> 00:23:37.432
So, yeah, I liked that.
00:23:37.882 --> 00:23:43.731
You talked about time blocking in this section, which we've talked about before on the podcast.
00:23:44.061 --> 00:23:54.037
Um, and I think in book club too, which is just about., There are things that are priorities to you, making sure that there's chunks of time physically in your calendar, not just on your to-do list
00:23:54.071 --> 00:23:54.491
Mm-hmm.
00:23:54.666 --> 00:23:59.346
Are assigned to that and respecting it when it comes up.
00:23:59.346 --> 00:24:01.356
Even if it's just you to work on it.
00:24:01.686 --> 00:24:13.718
It's not like a meeting with another person, but if that's on your calendar and it's time actually going to do that, there were some things in this chapter that I was having a hard time figuring out how they connected
00:24:13.907 --> 00:24:14.127
Mm.
00:24:14.178 --> 00:24:18.107
So the beginning of this chapter is this just in time concept and
00:24:18.107 --> 00:24:18.397
Yeah.
00:24:19.127 --> 00:24:27.228
time blocking, and then it goes into basically this section on anti champions.
00:24:28.383 --> 00:24:32.313
Which is people who are not cheering for your success.
00:24:32.313 --> 00:24:32.823
Whether it's
00:24:32.883 --> 00:24:32.942
Yeah.
00:24:33.063 --> 00:24:41.553
people in your life like, you know, friends and family who don't support what you're doing and kind of make snap comments or whatever.
00:24:41.553 --> 00:24:51.272
Or like online bullies and trolls who, well, you know, when you're putting things out there, you are inevitably opening yourself up to random people
00:24:52.053 --> 00:24:52.292
Yep.
00:24:52.653 --> 00:24:53.613
nice things to you.
00:24:54.393 --> 00:24:55.173
Um.
00:24:56.913 --> 00:24:57.813
Yeah, I wasn't,
00:24:58.097 --> 00:25:01.637
Well, as I think, well, I think it's'cause the chapters called Protect Your Progress.
00:25:01.637 --> 00:25:09.048
So I think there are not necessarily, it's not necessarily the most fluid link through them, but I think as a whole, the idea is like.
00:25:10.637 --> 00:25:12.738
What are the things that could stop you moving forward?
00:25:12.738 --> 00:25:21.258
And so, yes, obviously the whole point about if we aren't like time blocking or if we're getting distracted and we're getting fomo, those things are gonna hurt us.
00:25:21.498 --> 00:25:23.718
But also the reality of other people.
00:25:23.718 --> 00:25:36.768
It's not just we, we don't live in a silo and actually being able to ignore and carry on, even if loved ones or other people are just around are um, a negative, I think.
00:25:37.413 --> 00:25:39.182
That definitely can push some people back.
00:25:39.423 --> 00:25:51.962
I think also you have to remember like Pat Flynn's writing this from a very much like he runs a community where he's seen a lot of people trying to implement these things and trying, if we're really honest, trying to be more visible online.
00:25:53.012 --> 00:25:56.673
Like a lot of his people, a lot in his world, because he podcasts, he has a YouTube channel.
00:25:56.673 --> 00:25:58.742
A lot of people are very much.
00:25:59.057 --> 00:26:02.897
The things they are doing are also heavily, predominantly online businesses.
00:26:03.198 --> 00:26:10.847
And so I think actually in order to keep moving, being able to deal with some of those exterior people is part of that.
00:26:12.242 --> 00:26:12.573
Yeah.
00:26:12.923 --> 00:26:13.252
Okay.
00:26:13.252 --> 00:26:13.762
Yeah.
00:26:13.762 --> 00:26:13.772
Yeah.
00:26:14.228 --> 00:26:15.458
in tiny experiments.
00:26:15.458 --> 00:26:18.067
So I felt like there was some good overlap.
00:26:18.097 --> 00:26:18.577
Do you wanna
00:26:18.772 --> 00:26:18.843
My, yeah.
00:26:19.178 --> 00:26:19.597
what that is?
00:26:19.942 --> 00:26:29.242
Yeah, so these are basically, they are, they have become a way to help you, like speed run, skill acquisition.
00:26:29.423 --> 00:26:38.002
So he gives us a question, which is, would I be able to learn new things faster if I purposely put myself in high pressure situations?
00:26:38.663 --> 00:26:48.478
And I, the reason why I really liked this is I think a lot of us talk a lot about procrastination, and this feels like a like.
00:26:48.788 --> 00:26:56.738
I dunno, it's not reverse engineered, but a way of being like, sometimes the only way to actually make yourself do the thing is not to give yourself a lot of time.
00:26:57.188 --> 00:27:05.857
And so that's, for me, what I took of, um, voluntary force functions is this idea of being like, he tells a story of how he agreed to give a speech.
00:27:06.157 --> 00:27:14.887
Normally he would like never have done that type of speech, but it was, um, someone that like he knew that was asking and they needed someone to fill in'cause someone had had to pull out.
00:27:15.248 --> 00:27:18.428
And then he was like, but the moment I did that, I made that commitment.
00:27:19.248 --> 00:27:19.488
Then.
00:27:19.792 --> 00:27:23.873
I had, I had to do it, and I think that I had to do it.
00:27:24.053 --> 00:27:25.522
And like, I don't have any options anymore.
00:27:25.522 --> 00:27:26.782
I can't just dream about it.
00:27:26.782 --> 00:27:27.923
I can't just mess around with it.
00:27:27.923 --> 00:27:29.482
I can't just idealize about it.
00:27:29.843 --> 00:27:30.952
I think that does really work.
00:27:30.952 --> 00:27:33.292
So I think that is a very sensible thing to do.
00:27:33.563 --> 00:27:37.772
And he has a recipe for an effective voluntary function.
00:27:37.772 --> 00:27:41.262
So the first one is about having a leap of faith.
00:27:41.502 --> 00:27:42.942
So this is where you.
00:27:43.242 --> 00:27:46.153
Have a moment where you decide to turn someday into starting now.
00:27:46.873 --> 00:27:49.002
Then you have a time locked commitment.
00:27:49.002 --> 00:27:59.022
So this means you have a deadline, you have high stakes, so you really wanna be doing something that is gonna push you outside your comfort zone, but not so far that you don't take action.
00:27:59.803 --> 00:28:00.702
A meaningful,
00:28:00.883 --> 00:28:03.073
that you like lose something
00:28:03.192 --> 00:28:03.583
yeah.
00:28:03.583 --> 00:28:04.393
Lose something thing.
00:28:04.542 --> 00:28:05.053
through.
00:28:05.353 --> 00:28:11.867
So like he said, he gives an example of like if you wanna learn Japanese, you might book a trip to Japan.
00:28:12.792 --> 00:28:17.893
months from now and like what you lose is that you paid all this money for the plane ticket and like planned this whole trip.
00:28:17.893 --> 00:28:26.502
And if you haven't, you know, so there's some high stakes to me with sort of like something there might be a negative consequence if you don't
00:28:26.742 --> 00:28:27.073
Yeah, yeah,
00:28:27.252 --> 00:28:31.903
which is what's missing a lot of times when we're committing.
00:28:31.907 --> 00:28:32.833
But there's no
00:28:33.252 --> 00:28:33.432
yeah.
00:28:33.432 --> 00:28:34.722
If you don't do it by that date, yeah.
00:28:35.712 --> 00:28:37.512
Um, no, that makes total makes sense.
00:28:37.573 --> 00:28:41.563
And then for meaningful challenge, and that depends on the thing.
00:28:41.563 --> 00:28:44.292
So it could be like, personally you could have personal resonance.
00:28:44.292 --> 00:28:45.222
It's really important to you.
00:28:45.702 --> 00:28:47.952
There's like motivation through meaning.
00:28:47.952 --> 00:28:54.073
So it could be like the more you are doing something, the more value you're getting out of it or assessing the impact.
00:28:54.803 --> 00:28:58.192
Being like, what difference is this actually gonna make so that you can like.
00:28:59.153 --> 00:29:02.782
Really understand the challenge and why it's meaningful and the usefulness of it.
00:29:03.113 --> 00:29:06.803
And then my fa obviously rewards on the other end.
00:29:06.803 --> 00:29:08.512
Like what is gonna be the good thing?
00:29:08.692 --> 00:29:16.073
I say this to business owners all the time, like, if you're gonna do something like we, it should, the rewards should be just doing the thing, but often we need a little extra incentives.
00:29:16.583 --> 00:29:17.123
Um.
00:29:17.542 --> 00:29:22.522
Is that the small wins are often significant when you leverage them to, for larger wins down the line.
00:29:23.093 --> 00:29:29.242
Um, and so really looking at, okay, what can I be like rewarding at the end of it?
00:29:29.663 --> 00:29:32.932
So those are meant to be helping you to like come up with.
00:29:33.292 --> 00:29:35.962
Your type of voluntary force function.
00:29:36.232 --> 00:29:52.732
But I definitely feel like the main thing has been like, how do you, like you said, I think what you said about the stakes, but something that's got like a very tight, timely activity that is shorter than probably the activity would take if you didn't have that scenario.
00:29:54.623 --> 00:29:57.053
And I actually had a really interesting example of this recently.
00:29:57.053 --> 00:30:07.282
'cause I agreed to do a summit and I had, there was like a few different things I was meant to be making, like presentation wise, a few leads, magnets, a few email sequences, and I'd been dilly dallying.
00:30:08.123 --> 00:30:12.202
And then the second I agreed to that summit, I was like, well this is all gonna get done now.
00:30:12.323 --> 00:30:13.252
And I was just like.
00:30:13.508 --> 00:30:14.347
Bam, bam, bam.
00:30:14.347 --> 00:30:14.438
Ba.
00:30:14.438 --> 00:30:18.157
I had the most productive week, so I really do.
00:30:18.157 --> 00:30:22.417
I am like, actually, there is something very powerful about this.
00:30:22.508 --> 00:30:29.167
When you have got something that probably is faster than you need to do it, but you've got a, there's a high stake, like it has to be done.
00:30:29.767 --> 00:30:35.946
I think that the sort of pressure with this is missing for
00:30:36.076 --> 00:30:36.436
Okay.
00:30:36.547 --> 00:30:37.297
owners a lot
00:30:37.517 --> 00:30:38.146
Yeah.
00:30:38.376 --> 00:30:40.267
of us work by ourselves, many of us.
00:30:40.412 --> 00:30:45.991
I feel you're kind of an exception to this, but many people like really need a good amount of accountability in
00:30:46.061 --> 00:30:46.281
Mm.
00:30:47.041 --> 00:30:50.281
follow through on things or some kind of pressure.
00:30:50.342 --> 00:30:53.251
Just giving yourself a deadline isn't always enough.
00:30:53.416 --> 00:30:54.257
No, I agree.
00:30:55.172 --> 00:30:56.612
I like the, like
00:30:56.957 --> 00:30:57.497
Steak.
00:30:57.571 --> 00:31:07.652
kind of setting yourself up for like a little bit of stress and pressure, but not in an, I mean, he does say like, you know, within reason,
00:31:07.747 --> 00:31:07.987
Yeah.
00:31:08.656 --> 00:31:14.537
Don't do, don't commit into something that's like way out of scope or gonna burn you out or really overwhelm you in a bad way.
00:31:14.537 --> 00:31:21.017
But I like the concept of like just adding some pressure in a way that
00:31:21.511 --> 00:31:21.571
Yeah.
00:31:21.616 --> 00:31:23.176
useful from time to time.
00:31:23.957 --> 00:31:29.152
would say probably just like doing these back to back to back to back consistently would be stressful.
00:31:29.301 --> 00:31:29.721
Mm-hmm.
00:31:30.047 --> 00:31:34.967
you know, like you wouldn't, that sort of summit example you just gave, you probably wouldn't.
00:31:35.386 --> 00:31:37.037
Do that every single week
00:31:37.126 --> 00:31:37.396
No.
00:31:37.457 --> 00:31:37.846
year.
00:31:37.846 --> 00:31:40.666
Like these are isolated,
00:31:40.787 --> 00:31:41.326
Yeah.
00:31:41.656 --> 00:31:43.156
occasional things, but
00:31:43.261 --> 00:31:45.632
actually I think we talk, he talks about that later on the book.
00:31:45.632 --> 00:31:54.797
This idea, um, I think like when he talks about Power 10, I think is what he talks about, this idea of like when the rowers, they will have 10 strokes where they go.
00:31:55.832 --> 00:31:57.632
Harder than they usually go.
00:31:57.902 --> 00:32:01.592
And obviously the point is to try and like progress and move forward and so that they can win.
00:32:01.981 --> 00:32:04.622
But it's like you can't do that every single strike in the race.
00:32:04.622 --> 00:32:06.001
Like you have to choose the moment.
00:32:06.182 --> 00:32:11.942
And so, yeah, I would absolutely agree this is not about you, then that doesn't become your new normal base of working.
00:32:12.422 --> 00:32:14.672
It's, that's a peak moment, that's a push moment.
00:32:14.672 --> 00:32:17.132
And then you go back down to normal level of activity.
00:32:17.932 --> 00:32:18.352
Mm-hmm.
00:32:19.588 --> 00:32:19.878
Okay.
00:32:20.284 --> 00:32:25.818
Chapter six is persist or pivot, and,
00:32:28.449 --> 00:32:32.318
I mean, I think the main thing was around this idea, the three P's of personal pursuit.
00:32:33.368 --> 00:32:44.259
So he has this idea of yfi and so this idea of like why it's short for, why focus inspection.
00:32:45.368 --> 00:32:49.838
Um, and she's like, to make this process a regular part of your growth, you need to be doing this.
00:32:49.838 --> 00:32:54.608
Like, so he says 15 minutes every single month, you need to be looking back on your why.
00:32:54.699 --> 00:32:56.108
And he's like, connecting back to it.
00:32:56.378 --> 00:33:03.068
And so the three why's he gives for the three P's for personal pursuit would either be progress, passion, or purpose.
00:33:04.298 --> 00:33:06.699
So, um.
00:33:08.124 --> 00:33:09.773
When you're looking one for progress.
00:33:09.773 --> 00:33:17.844
So like as you're evaluating your progress, consider like keeping a win list and a success journal and really consider whether you are giving yourself enough time.
00:33:18.203 --> 00:33:23.003
So like if you don't feel like necessary, you've got to where you wanna be, but like, are you still progressing?
00:33:23.003 --> 00:33:25.763
Are you making meaningful results and moving forward?
00:33:26.874 --> 00:33:29.124
So it's about how passion is the fuel.
00:33:30.203 --> 00:33:31.979
For many people, that's what keeps people going.
00:33:32.273 --> 00:33:38.124
That's what people, if you get knocked down and you wanna get back up, really having like a clear passion is important.
00:33:38.483 --> 00:33:44.094
And it does give them like little hacks for rekindling your spark because people do lose passion.
00:33:44.124 --> 00:33:48.923
You can start something with a lot of passion and that gets lost along the way.
00:33:49.733 --> 00:33:52.403
Um, and so he does give some tips for like how to work with that.
00:33:52.973 --> 00:33:57.804
And then his third thing was like purpose and being like ensuring that you're still in line with your purpose.
00:33:58.374 --> 00:34:00.804
Because that is what will keep people going.
00:34:00.804 --> 00:34:08.123
Like he's got some very clear, um, purpose at purpose, like around being a dad and what he wants to do for his children.
00:34:08.603 --> 00:34:14.724
And he then talks about how they can bring this all together to create your own personal mission statement.
00:34:15.054 --> 00:34:18.173
And that basically ends up being your North Star, which is a concept.
00:34:18.173 --> 00:34:23.784
Obviously we've talked, heard about lots and lots of books about having something that then you.
00:34:24.594 --> 00:34:25.463
Can use that.
00:34:25.478 --> 00:34:36.143
I, I class it as like to be able to make sure what you're doing is in alignment and also then if you are having questions like,'cause this is in persist or pivot is what you are doing aligned with your personal mission?
00:34:36.353 --> 00:34:41.184
Like if it is, then it's more likely you can keep like persisting if Yeah.
00:34:41.184 --> 00:34:44.063
Whereas if you're like, actually no.
00:34:44.454 --> 00:34:48.893
Then maybe that is a sign to pivot and you're like, how can I pivot to be back in line with my personal mission statement?
00:34:49.483 --> 00:34:49.903
Mm-hmm.
00:34:51.429 --> 00:34:51.699
Yeah.
00:34:51.699 --> 00:35:05.748
And the stories that he tells in this section are really of people who, you know, were climbing some ladder and then kind of realized like, yes, this may be going well under some criteria, but it's not.
00:35:07.534 --> 00:35:13.114
It's not, again, like it's, it's not aligned with like, the life I want or my why or whatever.
00:35:13.114 --> 00:35:20.103
And he, and so that's kind of why it's so important to get clear on those things because it helps make that decision making easier and more obvious.
00:35:21.123 --> 00:35:22.684
Um, okay.
00:35:22.744 --> 00:35:27.693
Chapter seven, micro Mastery and Quantum Leaps.
00:35:28.534 --> 00:35:29.074
Yay.
00:35:29.074 --> 00:35:38.793
So micro mastery, which involves paying attention to small, specific incremental changes that compound over time to create significant results.
00:35:39.123 --> 00:35:49.324
This, to me is all like, so this idea of like the tiny minute, like when we think of like either, like the one thing, the compound effect, there's so many books to talk about this, like just do.
00:35:49.938 --> 00:35:54.588
Tell me how it's like, do something, do it really well, and they take tiny steps to move forward.
00:35:54.829 --> 00:36:02.719
Now what I think when he talks about it though, is really looking at, it's being like, how small can you get?
00:36:02.719 --> 00:36:08.688
And actually, if anything, it sort of reminded me, me more, they talk about it when in sport.
00:36:08.809 --> 00:36:14.688
And there was someone that like every single day they were trying to make that 1% and the, there was a training regime.
00:36:14.898 --> 00:36:16.369
I feel like there's actually a British team.
00:36:17.014 --> 00:36:22.264
It was from, it was, it was from Atomic Habits, and it was, I think a British cycling team.
00:36:22.398 --> 00:36:22.608
Yeah.
00:36:22.608 --> 00:36:23.119
Cycling.
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:23.628
Yeah.
00:36:23.628 --> 00:36:23.699
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:24.423 --> 00:36:33.934
And basically the coach made some tiny, tiny, tiny adjustment that like everyone the outside looked so insignificant.
00:36:33.934 --> 00:36:41.403
Like I couldn't, I can't remember exactly what it was, but it was something so small that like day-to-day, the difference is microscopic.
00:36:41.403 --> 00:36:43.023
Like it, it seemed pointless.
00:36:43.164 --> 00:36:43.384
Mm.
00:36:43.503 --> 00:36:45.009
you aggregate it over.
00:36:45.994 --> 00:36:53.673
Days and hours and months of training or like a long race or whatever, it ended up having some huge impact on their results.
00:36:53.673 --> 00:37:00.603
Like a, if, if, if I recall like a 5% something improvement, which in a race is a huge
00:37:00.648 --> 00:37:01.099
Yeah,
00:37:01.173 --> 00:37:01.623
so
00:37:01.759 --> 00:37:14.239
from memory, like just personally, like the sport was basically a known of, and then they won loads of like Olympics and like loads of trophies, like the te, he like to, it wasn't just one person, it was like the whole team, like cycling just took off.
00:37:14.268 --> 00:37:17.719
So yeah, it's, to me, it really reminded me of that story.
00:37:17.989 --> 00:37:23.418
But actually what he goes through in this book is this idea of like looking at a micro mastery for a sales funnel.
00:37:24.139 --> 00:37:28.398
And what he talks about is actually like making improvements on like every little section.
00:37:28.398 --> 00:37:35.989
So it's like, first of all, like in the front, he's got like people coming in for website visitors, how many, what percent are going on your email list, what goes through to your sales page?
00:37:36.168 --> 00:37:37.728
And then what become a customer.
00:37:38.028 --> 00:37:46.818
And it's like, originally everything just had like 10% because you wanted to keep the, like the math nice and easy, but it's like actually if you decide this one.
00:37:47.253 --> 00:37:54.364
Like one thing you're gonna try and do is really look at like how to get more people from your email list through to your sales page.
00:37:54.364 --> 00:37:56.463
And he's like, my aim was just to double that.
00:37:56.733 --> 00:37:58.443
Then on Salo you're gonna double revenue.
00:37:58.443 --> 00:38:03.483
So his original figure is like, he made 1000 all of a sudden with no extra people coming to the website.
00:38:03.784 --> 00:38:09.619
Just because he is able to make double the amount people come from the email list to the sales page, he's able to then.
00:38:10.338 --> 00:38:11.778
Make double the amount of sales.
00:38:11.778 --> 00:38:14.298
So he made extra, so he went from$100 to$200.
00:38:14.688 --> 00:38:18.018
But then rather than just like stopping at that, he's like, okay, fine.
00:38:18.018 --> 00:38:18.739
Now I've done that.
00:38:19.068 --> 00:38:24.708
Then we go up another level and be like, how do I make people go from my website more through to my email list?
00:38:24.708 --> 00:38:26.809
How am I looking focusing on that skill?
00:38:27.349 --> 00:38:31.429
And so all of a sudden it takes like that from 10% to 30%, which I thought was quite a big jump.
00:38:31.728 --> 00:38:34.759
Um, but then all of a sudden it's like.
00:38:35.418 --> 00:38:39.289
Actually that means he went from only making two sales to making six sales.
00:38:39.289 --> 00:38:43.039
And again, he still not had to bring any more people into the sales funnel.
00:38:43.429 --> 00:38:53.358
So I think that was a really like good example of just being like, so often it's easy to feel like in marketing particularly I feel like it's like we just need more people to see it.
00:38:53.509 --> 00:38:57.829
And so often like no, like actually work on the skills that are required.
00:38:57.829 --> 00:39:02.088
Like improve your copy, improve your, like sales psychology, improve.
00:39:02.778 --> 00:39:09.978
The content you're making as a whole and looking at it from every single little bit, and then it will all add up and it makes a difference.
00:39:10.159 --> 00:39:13.429
And then again, that's only looking at day one or week one.
00:39:13.489 --> 00:39:17.898
We're not actually even looking at the compound of how that will month, week after week, month after month go.
00:39:18.228 --> 00:39:21.469
So yeah, this micro mastery being like, how do I choose one tiny bit?
00:39:21.469 --> 00:39:23.989
So you're not saying I wanna improve my whole sales funnel.
00:39:24.643 --> 00:39:32.833
All I'm trying to do is get more people to click from an email onto my sales page or how I'm gonna try to get a better conversion on my specific sales page.
00:39:33.014 --> 00:39:34.304
Super focused.
00:39:35.373 --> 00:39:35.733
Yes.
00:39:35.733 --> 00:39:40.054
I think that's the key part that I took away is like, it's one at a time.
00:39:40.123 --> 00:39:40.753
Yeah.
00:39:40.773 --> 00:39:45.003
like, let me sit down and improve my entire sales funnel in one sitting.
00:39:45.333 --> 00:39:55.503
It's like, okay, right now my focus is, you know, getting more clicks from people on my email list to the product page or the sales page where they're gonna buy.
00:39:55.534 --> 00:39:58.954
And like really nailing that and then moving on to the next thing.
00:39:59.539 --> 00:40:02.389
Um, yeah, I thought that was a great illustration.
00:40:02.389 --> 00:40:04.188
It's very visual, so if you pick up the
00:40:04.298 --> 00:40:04.588
Okay.
00:40:05.358 --> 00:40:10.248
I think it does a really good job of illustrating Yeah.
00:40:10.429 --> 00:40:13.219
How all, there's all of these different levers that can make
00:40:13.228 --> 00:40:13.518
Yeah.
00:40:13.759 --> 00:40:19.699
in your success and it's when you try to tackle them all at once, you're probably not gonna see a lot of success.
00:40:19.699 --> 00:40:22.969
But if you can really zoom in, nail one thing, move
00:40:23.028 --> 00:40:23.329
But
00:40:23.568 --> 00:40:24.378
like that's where
00:40:24.469 --> 00:40:32.599
also I'd argue if you move all of them at the same time, you don't know what's, it's harder to know what's actually made the change for you to keep replicating it.
00:40:32.628 --> 00:40:41.628
That's one of the things like, that's not in the book, but personally I'm like, if you're changing one thing at a time, that's what enabled you to be like, oh, this change was valuable, so I need to keep doing that.
00:40:41.628 --> 00:40:43.039
And then you move on to something else.
00:40:44.059 --> 00:40:44.478
Mm-hmm.
00:40:47.014 --> 00:40:53.764
There's also a section called quantum leaps, and the, this is like from quantum mechanics.
00:40:53.764 --> 00:40:55.713
Quantum physics is this concept, but.
00:40:56.373 --> 00:41:02.943
It describes an electron's sudden transition from one energy level to another in personal professional growth.
00:41:02.943 --> 00:41:08.673
It involves making a sudden and substantial shift that catapult your progress and transforms your achievements.
00:41:09.304 --> 00:41:16.173
So he gives the example here of Nathan Berry, who is the CEO and founder of ConvertKit.
00:41:16.563 --> 00:41:18.213
Um, it's now called Kit.
00:41:18.244 --> 00:41:19.653
It's an email marketing tool.
00:41:19.653 --> 00:41:24.094
It's the one that I use and love, but he, when he started it, like.
00:41:25.293 --> 00:41:30.784
I think was already a successful, basically what we would now call creator.
00:41:30.784 --> 00:41:32.344
He had digital products.
00:41:32.733 --> 00:41:36.873
Um, he was an author, he had a blog, and he was doing really well with that.
00:41:36.873 --> 00:41:44.224
And he created this tool for himself because he noticed that a lot of the available email marketing tools didn't have what he needed.
00:41:44.583 --> 00:41:48.483
So he created his own email marketing tool, which he called ConvertKit.
00:41:49.474 --> 00:41:57.003
Eventually made available for other people to buy and for like two years, he was just sort of stagnant with it.
00:41:57.034 --> 00:42:01.744
Like in the 1200 or$1,300 a month range.
00:42:02.313 --> 00:42:04.264
Customers were like not that happy.
00:42:04.264 --> 00:42:11.463
They were canceling and he kind of had this, this moment where he had to, what his coach or friend.
00:42:11.853 --> 00:42:14.313
Said, you can either shut down or double down.
00:42:15.094 --> 00:42:22.384
so that is that moment of like choosing to take the quantum leap where he shut down his other business.
00:42:22.534 --> 00:42:30.543
He went all in on ConvertKit and like, you know, years from now, now there's a staff of like 75 people.
00:42:30.543 --> 00:42:30.753
They
00:42:31.023 --> 00:42:32.344
All around the world, don't they?
00:42:33.153 --> 00:42:33.364
I know
00:42:33.844 --> 00:42:35.583
They have this huge
00:42:35.673 --> 00:42:39.543
when I read the story, I couldn't believe that at one point, what was it?
00:42:39.543 --> 00:42:40.893
1,200 a month.
00:42:41.313 --> 00:42:46.653
Like I couldn't,'cause obviously I've only ever known it to be successful that I can't even imagine like how many customers.
00:42:46.744 --> 00:42:48.034
It seemed wild.
00:42:48.034 --> 00:42:50.313
Like that trajectory of change is crazy.
00:42:51.139 --> 00:42:59.543
yeah, But I mean, the point here I think is like sometimes you do have to put all your chips on the table and.
00:43:00.724 --> 00:43:02.494
Just go for it and take a risk.
00:43:02.494 --> 00:43:05.673
And in this case, it paid off very, very well for him.
00:43:05.673 --> 00:43:08.094
It doesn't always though, so yeah,
00:43:08.498 --> 00:43:09.373
Take what you want.
00:43:10.244 --> 00:43:10.773
Good luck.
00:43:11.153 --> 00:43:12.114
if you want to.
00:43:14.438 --> 00:43:15.494
And then this part,
00:43:15.534 --> 00:43:16.074
I mean,
00:43:16.074 --> 00:43:16.373
go on.
00:43:16.373 --> 00:43:22.434
do think like any of us who have done what we're doing, like if we have a business, like you're taking a risk,
00:43:22.748 --> 00:43:24.728
Oh yeah, you're taking risk, but I'd,
00:43:24.744 --> 00:43:25.463
risk
00:43:26.139 --> 00:43:29.708
but I'd also argue like the shutdown on double down.
00:43:29.889 --> 00:43:45.878
I still think there's a lot of, myself included, very multi hyphenate, multi-passionate, spinning 17,000 plates, and whilst that can be great and enjoyable and fun and stimulating and all those things.
00:43:46.914 --> 00:43:57.713
Is the reality that for the level of like,'cause this is quantum leap to remember we're talking about, is it like actually if you put all your focus into one thing, it would make a, it would, it would be better.
00:43:58.693 --> 00:43:59.114
Mm-hmm.
00:43:59.634 --> 00:44:00.054
Who knows?
00:44:01.449 --> 00:44:01.809
Yep.
00:44:03.668 --> 00:44:08.739
Um, they also introduce here the concept of a power 10, which you just sort of described.
00:44:08.739 --> 00:44:19.733
Where in rowing and crew it's that like basically everyone on the boat gets in sync for 10 super hard focus strokes.
00:44:20.634 --> 00:44:23.003
You can't maintain that pace eternally.
00:44:23.393 --> 00:44:28.704
Um, it's too exhausting, but you can do it in the short term and it can create a lot of really good momentum.
00:44:29.123 --> 00:44:42.893
So you can kind of apply this Power 10 concept your own business and your own work where you like really down for a short period of time in order to make a lot of progress in a short span.
00:44:43.583 --> 00:44:46.914
He talks about like, you know, this could be like the writer's retreat
00:44:46.943 --> 00:44:48.148
Yeah, a hackathon.
00:44:48.204 --> 00:44:48.588
his own book.
00:44:50.128 --> 00:44:51.744
A hackathon in tech.
00:44:52.074 --> 00:44:56.244
He talks about when he wrote his own book, it was like two weeks of getting up super early and
00:44:56.298 --> 00:44:56.518
Mm.
00:44:56.603 --> 00:44:58.134
to the pool with his family.
00:44:58.134 --> 00:45:02.608
And um, yeah, it's a short focused sprint.
00:45:04.088 --> 00:45:04.418
Cool.
00:45:05.409 --> 00:45:12.818
And then the final chapter, I think from learning to leading, which is better.
00:45:13.713 --> 00:45:16.744
Very much up Pat Flynn's Alley for sure.
00:45:17.074 --> 00:45:21.333
And he argues that the best way to learn is to teach.
00:45:21.873 --> 00:45:24.724
And this idea of like, how can you start to teach others?
00:45:24.784 --> 00:45:29.673
Because as soon as you start to teach others, you, I, I don't know, it'd be interesting'cause obviously.
00:45:29.708 --> 00:45:30.548
We both do it.
00:45:30.849 --> 00:45:35.199
Like you just have to process information in such a different way, enable to share it.
00:45:35.199 --> 00:45:36.818
You have to be able to like explain it.
00:45:36.818 --> 00:45:38.588
You have to synthesize stuff, you have to summarize stuff.
00:45:38.889 --> 00:45:40.838
You have to think of different ways of doing it.
00:45:40.838 --> 00:45:46.798
It just pushes you to be able to absorb the level of absorption I think, of information is so different as soon as you're trying to like.
00:45:47.364 --> 00:45:51.414
Actually share it with others and it gives you lots of like simple ways to start.
00:45:51.474 --> 00:45:55.193
Like you don't, it doesn't mean you have to start a podcast in order to share.
00:45:55.193 --> 00:45:59.184
It's like, no, you could host a workshop or a webinar, or you could do a mini course.
00:45:59.184 --> 00:46:01.614
You can write blogs, you can go to speaker conferences.
00:46:01.824 --> 00:46:12.804
You could even find, or like some friends that need help, but this idea that actually it's good for you and actually your learning to be able to process that learning and then teach it to others.
00:46:13.914 --> 00:46:14.244
Yeah.
00:46:15.248 --> 00:46:15.539
Yeah.
00:46:15.744 --> 00:46:23.634
And this chapter was one that like, you know, I always try to read these books with my audience's hat on, and I know
00:46:23.813 --> 00:46:24.233
So many.
00:46:24.713 --> 00:46:30.594
who listen to the podcast like they're not teaching, you know, they're, they're doing,
00:46:30.623 --> 00:46:30.914
Yeah.
00:46:31.253 --> 00:46:38.753
they're the maker or the artist or the photographer who's really focused on their own craft and not necessarily, um.
00:46:38.934 --> 00:46:39.253
I didn't want,
00:46:39.324 --> 00:46:39.684
Turning
00:46:39.753 --> 00:46:39.974
mm.
00:46:40.043 --> 00:46:42.443
and sharing it or teaching it to others.
00:46:42.443 --> 00:46:49.884
And so I, I thought this section was super applicable for creators like you and I have creator
00:46:50.103 --> 00:46:50.393
Okay.
00:46:50.423 --> 00:46:53.003
business, but not necessarily everyone.
00:46:53.173 --> 00:46:53.463
Okay.
00:46:53.514 --> 00:46:58.434
Um, but he did talk in this section about working in public, which is
00:46:58.543 --> 00:46:58.764
Yes.
00:46:59.543 --> 00:47:06.623
like if you're doing something new, like launching a new jewelry collection or, um.
00:47:07.554 --> 00:47:16.614
Working on a new element of your business or whatever it is, pulling back a curtain and showing people the behind the scenes of kind of how it's going.
00:47:16.818 --> 00:47:17.039
Mm.
00:47:17.063 --> 00:47:18.864
from a marketing standpoint, this is just
00:47:19.199 --> 00:47:19.489
Yeah.
00:47:19.943 --> 00:47:34.074
But I think, like you say, like it also helps you kind of in internalize and reflect on what you're learning and what's what's happening in a way that's interesting for other people, but really useful for you too to.
00:47:35.574 --> 00:47:38.333
Kind of process things in that more public way.
00:47:41.543 --> 00:47:45.653
So that the key content from the book.
00:47:45.653 --> 00:47:46.793
There's a little conclusion.
00:47:46.793 --> 00:47:49.733
I don't think there is anything new there though, really.
00:47:50.304 --> 00:47:59.123
Um, so yeah, I, I mentioned earlier that I had gotten a message from you partway through the book, and you were, uh, not thrilled.
00:47:59.213 --> 00:48:02.153
So like, I don't know, what's your take
00:48:02.333 --> 00:48:04.373
So I think, yeah, it definitely was a journey.
00:48:04.373 --> 00:48:10.733
I think I definitely struggled more at the beginning and then the middle and then I would've, if I hadn't have been doing for book club, I probably would've put it down.
00:48:10.733 --> 00:48:14.994
But I was doing it for book club and then through, by the time I got to the end, I was like all, I was like, oh, actually.
00:48:15.173 --> 00:48:18.983
And like there is value, and this is what I say sometimes, like a book cannot be.
00:48:20.438 --> 00:48:24.639
You love reading it or you love reading all of it, but that doesn't mean it's not a value.
00:48:24.668 --> 00:48:29.559
I thought there are the actual concept, I think what you said at the beginning was spot on.
00:48:29.619 --> 00:48:30.909
It's just stretched out too far.
00:48:31.599 --> 00:48:35.108
It's just more, it's bigger of a book than it needed to actually be.
00:48:35.438 --> 00:48:41.498
But I think the actual idea of being like focusing and like he does talk about this.
00:48:42.099 --> 00:48:50.768
As he comes to the conclusion, he says like, take a moment to reflect on the problems and challenges that matter most to you, and then focus on building the skills and knowledge that you need to acquire for that.
00:48:51.068 --> 00:49:00.369
And I think that I'm like, that's what I wanna take away is really being like, how do I just focus on right now, what skills need to be improved?
00:49:00.639 --> 00:49:07.449
Learn focus on doing them, whether that means I need to learn from other people or whether I need to learn from resources or whatever.
00:49:07.778 --> 00:49:11.048
Focus on that, implement it, make sure I'm paying attention.
00:49:12.309 --> 00:49:15.429
So I'm getting that feedback and just keep that going on that wheel.
00:49:15.579 --> 00:49:17.528
And for that basis I'm like, yeah, it's good.
00:49:17.798 --> 00:49:21.188
Just, I dunno if it needed to be 200 something pages long, that's all.
00:49:22.373 --> 00:49:22.793
Yeah.
00:49:23.273 --> 00:49:23.603
Yeah.
00:49:24.639 --> 00:49:26.289
I think my takeaway was really similar.
00:49:26.289 --> 00:49:37.568
Like the key thing I'll walk away from is really just, trying to have that discipline around there is a gap in your knowledge and you need to learn something new.
00:49:38.708 --> 00:49:43.719
Really trying to reign it into just like, what do I need to know now?
00:49:45.309 --> 00:49:46.778
Let me put everything else on hold.
00:49:46.778 --> 00:49:56.498
I can learn it later, but like, let me be strategic about how much I learned so that I have just what I need, but not way too much to take the next step and move forward.
00:49:56.498 --> 00:49:58.838
So, um, yeah, I agree.
00:49:58.838 --> 00:50:04.329
My take like overall say didn't enjoy it as much as his other books,
00:50:04.418 --> 00:50:04.708
Yeah.
00:50:05.139 --> 00:50:05.409
that we
00:50:05.539 --> 00:50:05.829
Yeah.
00:50:05.858 --> 00:50:10.088
really early on in this podcast, which is a great book.
00:50:10.159 --> 00:50:12.528
So highly recommend that episode in that book.
00:50:13.833 --> 00:50:26.673
I just, and it could just be the content isn't as interesting to me, but it was a good book and I think so many useful concepts in it for anyone, and particularly people who kind of struggle with that.
00:50:26.673 --> 00:50:31.443
Like learn, learn, learn, learn, learn over, consume, and they're good at that part.
00:50:31.443 --> 00:50:35.253
That's where they feel comfortable, but they struggle more with the actual taking action.
00:50:35.614 --> 00:50:38.523
If that's you, I feel like this is a really good and important book trade.
00:50:38.793 --> 00:50:39.753
Yeah, totally agree.
00:50:39.813 --> 00:50:40.833
And also if that's you.
00:50:41.418 --> 00:50:42.108
You are not alone.
00:50:42.409 --> 00:50:48.768
And like, I think, like even Lauren said, the beginning, like we both would've probably read this book with a very different view if this had been X amount years earlier.
00:50:48.798 --> 00:50:54.168
So it's definitely a skill as a, as you're in business to get You do get a bit better at it a bit.
00:50:54.168 --> 00:50:54.679
Just a little bit.
00:50:55.559 --> 00:50:56.739
Up bit.
00:50:57.554 --> 00:50:57.773
Um,
00:50:58.023 --> 00:50:58.539
Um, okay.
00:50:58.539 --> 00:50:58.818
Well.
00:50:59.793 --> 00:51:03.844
We actually don't have the next book decided yet to
00:51:03.918 --> 00:51:04.849
oh my gosh.
00:51:05.494 --> 00:51:09.574
we're gonna have a, a big announcement actually in our next book club episode.
00:51:09.903 --> 00:51:16.353
And well, it'll make more sense when we, when we talk next month, but, um.
00:51:16.833 --> 00:51:19.204
Yeah, we don't have our, our book chosen yet.
00:51:19.204 --> 00:51:24.634
We will have it by the time, uh, I record the outro for this episode.
00:51:24.634 --> 00:51:37.204
So in a couple short minutes for you listener, you will know the book that we chose for next month, but as we record, we don't, so we're not gonna enounce But, Shire, thank you so much for another great discussion.
00:51:37.219 --> 00:51:37.744
very welcome.
00:51:37.893 --> 00:51:40.264
looking forward to talking with you on.
00:51:41.253 --> 00:51:41.954
See you next month.
00:51:42.873 --> 00:51:46.478
All right, so there you have our conversation all about lean learning.
00:51:46.509 --> 00:51:47.648
Did you enjoy it?
00:51:47.679 --> 00:51:48.608
What did you learn?
00:51:48.608 --> 00:51:49.809
What were your takeaways?
00:51:50.184 --> 00:51:52.614
DM us on Instagram and let us know your thoughts.
00:51:52.614 --> 00:51:53.664
We would love to chat.
00:51:53.903 --> 00:51:57.713
I am at Lauren Tilden and Charelle is at Charelle Griffith.
00:51:58.103 --> 00:52:00.923
Now, as you heard, we announced our book for next month.
00:52:01.208 --> 00:52:08.798
We are talking about the one thing, the surprising simple truth about extraordinary results by Gary Keller and Jay Papasan.
00:52:09.128 --> 00:52:17.469
We chose this book because it's all about cutting through overwhelm, getting focused, and actually making progress, which is what we all need as we enter into 2026.
00:52:17.829 --> 00:52:22.148
And we actually also have a very big announcement to make in our next Book Club episode.
00:52:22.179 --> 00:52:25.333
So be sure you're subscribed to the podcast so you get that when it comes in.
00:52:26.289 --> 00:52:31.197
You can find the show notes from this episode at makinggoodpodcast.com/ 3 1 6.
00:52:31.907 --> 00:52:36.969
if you enjoyed this episode, I'd be so grateful if you left a rating and review and your favorite podcast player.
00:52:36.969 --> 00:52:40.358
It only takes a few seconds and it really means the world to me.
00:52:40.929 --> 00:52:44.739
Thank you for being here and for focusing on making a difference with your small business.
00:52:44.768 --> 00:52:46.329
I will talk to you next time.