Manny Patel: From Regulator to Bridge Builder | Make Water Work 051

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Language: en
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Welcome to the Make Water Work podcast,
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where we dive into the people, ideas,
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and innovations shaping the future of
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water. We bring you insights from
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hundreds of incredible conversations
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we've had over the past 9 years with
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inspiring and energizing leaders with
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entrepreneurs, community champions, and
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innovators who are making water work for
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everyone. Whether you're a water
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professional, a curious innovator, or
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simply passionate about our most
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precious resource, this podcast is for
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you. Let's get started.
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Well, welcome to the Make Water Work
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podcast. I'm your host, Isaac Pellerin,
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and I have conversations with
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innovators, leaders, and folks who
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really serve the water industry well.
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Um, we're lucky enough to have today's
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guest be a recent addition to the 120
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Water team. Um, I get the honor of
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having a conversation with Manny Patel,
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who is now the senior director of water
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administration at 120 Water. Um, where
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he's really serving as a bridge between
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water systems, state drinking water
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programs, and utilities. There's a lot
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of complexity there. He spent two
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decades at the Georgia um as a as a
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regulator in Georgia. And so there's a
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lot that we can learn and there's a lot
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that we have coming on the horizon that
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Manny is having a direct impact in
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helping shape. And so Manny, I'm so
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excited to have this conversation with
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you.
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>> Isaac, same as well. Good. First of all,
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good morning. I've listened to all the
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previous podcasts. I think we did just
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you just did the number 50 last last
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one. So I've listened to all of them.
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and I get different perspective from,
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you know, all the different industry
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leaders that you bring on. So, it's
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really a great uh an honor for me to be
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on this podcast.
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>> Yeah. Phenomenal. Well, you know, you
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since you've listened to all these, you
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know, how all of these start. We we um
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you know, when you work in this
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industry, you know that everyone has a
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story about what brought them here and
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and we kind of phrase it as not
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necessarily how did you find water, but
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how did water find you? What was the
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draw there? Um, and so Manny, how did
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water find you?
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>> I mean, I love that question. How did
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water find us? I mean, as as you know,
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all of us came from somewhere. So, I
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was, as you introduce myself, I was in a
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regulatory position for about 20 years.
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Uh, 30 years of that, most of that was
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spent in the airside. And I had an
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opportunity to get a promotion. I had
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young kids in college, need some money.
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And my boss calls me up and says, "You
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need to come on the water side." And his
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name was Jack Gap. He's retired since
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from the state. you know, says, "Jack, I
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don't know anything about water except
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that it comes from a tap and I drink it.
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You know, that's about it." Um, so like
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I said, you know, it was I saw that as a
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good opportunity to do something
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different. Uh, and I really really am
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glad that I got that opportunity because
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I had I can honestly say that I had most
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fun of my almost 40 years career in the
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last 10 years in the water sector.
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>> I am glad water found me. It really
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reignited my passion for the
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environmental field. But you know, water
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just uh is really got me going and I'm
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still going. I'm still here. I've you
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know I did retired from the state but
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I'm like I got to stay engaged in the
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water sector. It's just so much fun.
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>> Yeah. Yeah, it it is. And you started
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out as a chemical engineer um and so um
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in in industrial and consulting um and
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so you kind of shared what pulled you
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into public service but talk a little
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bit about the early early part of your
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career
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>> right so I'm I'm a chemical engineer by
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training chemical engineer at heart love
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petroleum refining I worked uh in in uh
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uh HP which is was owned by you know BP
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Petroleum at the time in India for about
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a here. Uh, and it was fun. I love I
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love refining. Came over on on US side
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to finish my masters and and still
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stayed on the process side and then uh
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eventually got on the consulting side.
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Uh, ended up designing air pollution
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control equipment because I wanted to be
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on the design and the process side. So I
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I was very instrumental in installing
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RTO's, bag houses and scrubbers, your
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typical air pollution control
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equipments, you know. Um, and it was
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fun. And then I got onto the regulatory
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side because every project has a
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regulatory component to it.
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>> I started reading the clean air act and
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in all of that uh and got into into the
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permitting sides of things and I liked
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uh really doing the complex permitting
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that goes on with the air side. Um I did
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consulting for about 15 years pretty
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much with the same company. Uh so the
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fun in consulting was I I get to see
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different processes uh meet to different
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industry different challenges. Uh and
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that's what really kept me going in air
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for the longest time to be honest. Um um
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and then my kids were getting older. My
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son was 10, my daughter was eight. I
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looked around and says, "Man, I'm
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traveling a lot. If I don't down, uh
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this case will be in college before I'll
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see them, you know." Uh so I decided to
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just like slow down the pace wanted to
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stay in the airfield came to work for
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the state really for a work life balance
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but also being on the other side of the
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table because as a consultant I always
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dealt with all the regulators all the
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time whether it's permitting compliance
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matters
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>> you know presenting our control
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strategies so I wanted to experience on
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the other side as well and contribute to
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the to the public sector which I think
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is a noble cause you know Yeah. Yeah.
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Absolutely. I think what's really cool
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about that that story and and your
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trajectory is that you never really
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stopped designing
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things cuz um from from the time that
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I've known you, you've you've had to
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design programs, design how to implement
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regulatory and not afraid to say, "Hey,
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we need to think about this
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differently."
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Um, and so for listeners, I wanted to
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kind get into um like state drinking
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water programs um as a topic overall. So
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maybe for listeners who have never seen
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it from the inside, what is a state
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drinking water program um manager
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administrator actually do?
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>> Absolutely. So when like I said when I
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came over uh it was all new to me
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waterfall me but uh it when I got to the
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water side u I had a lot of uh learning
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to do myself right but just just talking
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from a program perspective and different
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states are are set up differently but
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overall the functions are the same right
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we have to
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>> the state has to implement all the safe
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drinking water act regulations which
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means we have to make sure water systems
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are taking the required samples water
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systems are doing the required testing,
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the test data is submitted, that data
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goes into an EPS database called SIDVIS
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and and that way that's where the
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transfer transparency comes in. Uh so
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that's just an aspect of making sure the
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water system the water systems that are
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out of compliance, our goal is to offer
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them technical assistance and bring them
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into compliance. So we have technical
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assistance contract with the training
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partners Georgia rural water association
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Georgia association of water
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professionals. They do um one of the pro
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one of the core program also is we have
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to have certified operators running the
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program. So we have to make sure these
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operators are getting certified. There
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are tests that they have to take. There
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are cus that they need to accumulate to
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keep their licenses current. And you
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know in in Georgia we got 90 all of our
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plants are run by 99 99 plus percent are
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all run by certified operators. We find
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once in a while somebody is just going
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through the process but for the most
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part. So that's that. We also have to
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make sure we run a capacity development
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program. We're planning for the future.
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We are making sure there's going to be
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water available for the next 20, 30, 50
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years.
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>> Yeah. So I work with my counterparts in
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our surface water and groundwater
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withdrawal programs to make sure we're
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balancing those needs. You know, they're
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looking at instream data quality and how
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much water is available. Um so work with
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other programs as well to make sure I've
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got capacity uh for the future growth
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which is important and you know as all
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this talks about data centers coming in
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and using up all the water that
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conversation gets more and more
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important. Mhm.
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>> Um, all of these plants, um, drinking
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water plants, we have about 2400 in
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Georgia. So, it's a it's a it's a big
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matrix. They all have to be inspected
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once every 3 years. So,
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>> yeah,
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>> calls them sanitary service, but in a
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sense, they are inspections. Uh, they're
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announced, they're not unannounced, but
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they're announced inspections. So, we
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are inspecting all of these facilities
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for, you know, right from their sources.
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How their sources are looking good? Are
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they protecting their sources? mapping
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out the whole system like from where it
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comes to distribution.
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>> Yep. From start to finish, we go all the
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way start from where their intake is all
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the way to to the last step. So, you
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know, we are inspecting
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>> the conditions, the assessments, you
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know, where where they need to improve,
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you know, are they having certified
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operators? And so, that's another big
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component of of the program. Georgia is
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also know the one of the state that uh
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runs a permitting program. Not all
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states permit their water systems, but
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Georgia does. So all of these permits,
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we have an expiration date of 10 years.
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>> So permits have to be renewed every 10
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years. So it's constantly we're
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renewing, you know, about 300 give or
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take 300 permits every year. So we have
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a whole engineering group that is is
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looking at that. And then as we know
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plants are always adding capacity
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they're expanding you know changing new
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equipments or adding new technology be
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it control for PAS or you know uh any of
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those components engineering they're
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required to submit us plans and specs
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you know actually step back they
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actually required to do pilot study for
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any new technologies piloting the
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studies we're approving the pilot study
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plans reviewing the results of pilot
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studies and then based on those
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approvals the consultants or the water
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system engineer ers are designing these
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plants. They'll submit us the plans and
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specifications of their of their
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extension, expansion, you know, new
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build, whatever the case might be.
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Engineers are reviewing those plans
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against the standards. Georgia is one of
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the states along with the 10 states to
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have minimum standards. We basically
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taken the the 10 state standards um
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document and and take some Georgia twist
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to it and adoptive Georgia. So we have
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to make sure the plants are meeting
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those minimum standards.
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>> Yeah.
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>> So so that there's a whole engine I had
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a about 12 engineers in the in the
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program at one time that that took care
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took care of approving the pilot plans
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reviewing all the specifications. So
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that's another element of the program.
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And then we also have source water
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protection. As we all know if we can the
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cleaner the water the less treatment we
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have to do. So we want to protect our
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sources. So we have a group of
00:11:22.320 --> 00:11:24.790
geologists that manages our source water
00:11:24.800 --> 00:11:25.670
protection.
00:11:25.680 --> 00:11:27.990
>> So when for example if somebody wants to
00:11:28.000 --> 00:11:30.710
put in a new well we got well sighting
00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:33.030
criteria does that meet is it away from
00:11:33.040 --> 00:11:35.509
the landfield is it away from nearest
00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:37.350
gas station if there's a gas station can
00:11:37.360 --> 00:11:39.590
it leak and contaminate the water. So
00:11:39.600 --> 00:11:41.670
yeah is it is it located in a flood
00:11:41.680 --> 00:11:43.990
zone? Yeah. Uh so we got all of these
00:11:44.000 --> 00:11:47.030
criteras charges. So we have a whole
00:11:47.040 --> 00:11:49.110
source water protection program that of
00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:50.470
course is required under the safe
00:11:50.480 --> 00:11:52.710
drinking water act we got to run. So if
00:11:52.720 --> 00:11:55.030
I can put like in big four or five
00:11:55.040 --> 00:11:57.750
buckets, you have source water
00:11:57.760 --> 00:12:00.870
protection going on uh in one group. You
00:12:00.880 --> 00:12:02.710
got inspection, those are sanitary
00:12:02.720 --> 00:12:05.269
surveys going on in the second group.
00:12:05.279 --> 00:12:07.750
You got compliance group that is making
00:12:07.760 --> 00:12:09.509
sure all the samples are taken. The
00:12:09.519 --> 00:12:12.150
results are within MCL's if not you know
00:12:12.160 --> 00:12:14.069
help them technical assist and get them
00:12:14.079 --> 00:12:16.069
into compliance. And then you got
00:12:16.079 --> 00:12:18.710
engineering group that is reviewing all
00:12:18.720 --> 00:12:21.670
these plans and specification. So that's
00:12:21.680 --> 00:12:23.430
if if it's kind of need to put like in a
00:12:23.440 --> 00:12:25.750
four big bucket that's essentially what
00:12:25.760 --> 00:12:28.550
a program is. Uh yeah and then we don't
00:12:28.560 --> 00:12:30.949
have a financial components uh of the of
00:12:30.959 --> 00:12:32.230
the program
00:12:32.240 --> 00:12:34.389
>> as you know the states gets funding uh
00:12:34.399 --> 00:12:37.670
from from SRF uh and those in some
00:12:37.680 --> 00:12:39.269
states are part of the drinking water
00:12:39.279 --> 00:12:41.590
program. In Georgia it is a separate
00:12:41.600 --> 00:12:43.750
agency but those are the core components
00:12:43.760 --> 00:12:46.470
of a drinking water program to make sure
00:12:46.480 --> 00:12:49.110
we're delivering safe water 247 to our
00:12:49.120 --> 00:12:50.310
citizens.
00:12:50.320 --> 00:12:53.110
>> Yeah. And I think what's what strikes me
00:12:53.120 --> 00:12:56.230
is that we hear a lot when we're talking
00:12:56.240 --> 00:12:59.670
about water utilities um in the US, we
00:12:59.680 --> 00:13:03.509
hear about the um the workforce gap and
00:13:03.519 --> 00:13:05.430
that there isn't enough folks in the
00:13:05.440 --> 00:13:08.150
workforce for that. But when you know
00:13:08.160 --> 00:13:10.949
the more that that um I've been able to
00:13:10.959 --> 00:13:13.590
peel back the layers at the state agency
00:13:13.600 --> 00:13:15.990
level, there's also resource
00:13:16.000 --> 00:13:19.430
constraints. And so it kind of becomes
00:13:19.440 --> 00:13:23.269
the the place where where um kind of
00:13:23.279 --> 00:13:25.350
puts the right ingredients where
00:13:25.360 --> 00:13:28.389
innovation and new things can happen if
00:13:28.399 --> 00:13:31.509
we're open to it. And so, um, I think
00:13:31.519 --> 00:13:33.670
one of the one of the, you know,
00:13:33.680 --> 00:13:38.150
examples is just LCR, LCRI, like we had
00:13:38.160 --> 00:13:40.069
this program that all of a sudden kind
00:13:40.079 --> 00:13:45.110
of broke some of the paradigms that
00:13:45.120 --> 00:13:47.750
typically worked for water um,
00:13:47.760 --> 00:13:50.230
administrators to manage the work. where
00:13:50.240 --> 00:13:52.230
now a lot of it had to be reported
00:13:52.240 --> 00:13:55.670
digitally um and more connected and not
00:13:55.680 --> 00:13:57.910
just reported up to regulators but also
00:13:57.920 --> 00:14:01.189
more requirements on sharing out to to
00:14:01.199 --> 00:14:03.590
the public kind of what's your take on
00:14:03.600 --> 00:14:07.430
kind of the trajectory of how innovation
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:09.910
has been spurred on by some regulation
00:14:09.920 --> 00:14:12.870
and then what are some things we should
00:14:12.880 --> 00:14:15.030
um maybe watch out for or not get too
00:14:15.040 --> 00:14:16.949
ahead too over our skis in
00:14:16.959 --> 00:14:19.590
>> so it's a great segue you know I mean as
00:14:19.600 --> 00:14:21.350
As you know the and you're hitting the
00:14:21.360 --> 00:14:23.269
right points all my state colleagues
00:14:23.279 --> 00:14:25.189
know we're we're strapped for resources.
00:14:25.199 --> 00:14:27.990
We have to do more with less. All right.
00:14:28.000 --> 00:14:29.990
Just in the last five years if you look
00:14:30.000 --> 00:14:31.750
at you know the the last major
00:14:31.760 --> 00:14:34.949
regulation was groundwater that was 2009
00:14:34.959 --> 00:14:36.870
right? There has been no new regulations
00:14:36.880 --> 00:14:39.350
in the drinking water sector since then.
00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:41.110
Now all of a sudden you're hit with
00:14:41.120 --> 00:14:43.269
almost five new regulations. lead and
00:14:43.279 --> 00:14:48.310
copper PAS CCR per chlorate and the MDPs
00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:50.389
on the horizon. I mean that's a lot to
00:14:50.399 --> 00:14:54.230
do in a small time frame. So at the same
00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:57.829
time we got you know our our PWSS grant
00:14:57.839 --> 00:14:59.829
which has been flat. We got reduced
00:14:59.839 --> 00:15:01.910
amount of money coming from the SRF
00:15:01.920 --> 00:15:03.670
dollars due to congressionally directed
00:15:03.680 --> 00:15:05.750
projects you know so all those are
00:15:05.760 --> 00:15:08.069
challenges adding new position in a
00:15:08.079 --> 00:15:10.550
state is very very difficult. a lot of
00:15:10.560 --> 00:15:13.509
time it requires legislative approval.
00:15:13.519 --> 00:15:15.990
So I know um you know want to talk about
00:15:16.000 --> 00:15:17.670
learning copper. When I was in the state
00:15:17.680 --> 00:15:20.629
drinking water program at EPD,
00:15:20.639 --> 00:15:22.790
I was looking there and I still remember
00:15:22.800 --> 00:15:24.470
I was asked to a conference. We're
00:15:24.480 --> 00:15:25.829
looking at that and people were just
00:15:25.839 --> 00:15:27.590
talking about inventory and I'm sitting
00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:30.150
there saying okay inventory is one
00:15:30.160 --> 00:15:31.829
component. I know I had done some
00:15:31.839 --> 00:15:34.150
homework. I had about 3 million plus
00:15:34.160 --> 00:15:36.150
service line that data is going to come
00:15:36.160 --> 00:15:39.110
in. At that point EPA just had an Excel
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:41.350
template and I'm like this is not Excel
00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:44.310
is not built to handle that large amount
00:15:44.320 --> 00:15:47.509
of data. uh and and the burden falls and
00:15:47.519 --> 00:15:49.189
you utility to do the inventory. But I
00:15:49.199 --> 00:15:50.949
think what the states were missing the
00:15:50.959 --> 00:15:53.670
point is you got to have a vehicle for
00:15:53.680 --> 00:15:56.790
that to be submitted uh to us for and
00:15:56.800 --> 00:15:58.230
then the state has to review those
00:15:58.240 --> 00:16:00.550
inventories, approve them, reject them,
00:16:00.560 --> 00:16:03.509
you know, send them back. Uh you hit on
00:16:03.519 --> 00:16:05.430
the on the public component how we're
00:16:05.440 --> 00:16:06.870
going to display this to the public.
00:16:06.880 --> 00:16:08.870
This is a unique rule where none of the
00:16:08.880 --> 00:16:11.430
previous rules were required to have a
00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:14.389
public transparency uh you know to the
00:16:14.399 --> 00:16:17.350
the public. So you got systems 50,000
00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:19.350
and above had to have a dashboard and I
00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:21.189
mean had to put that on the websites.
00:16:21.199 --> 00:16:22.629
Everybody else had to make this
00:16:22.639 --> 00:16:24.870
inventory available to the public. So
00:16:24.880 --> 00:16:26.470
there was this component that nobody's
00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:28.470
thinking of. And in my mind even beyond
00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:30.389
that as a regulator I'm thinking they're
00:16:30.399 --> 00:16:32.790
saying okay I've asked for 20 new
00:16:32.800 --> 00:16:33.829
position
00:16:33.839 --> 00:16:35.110
>> I got three
00:16:35.120 --> 00:16:37.350
>> I got three new position that was it so
00:16:37.360 --> 00:16:38.949
I have to manage everything and that's
00:16:38.959 --> 00:16:40.629
also temporary because that's funded
00:16:40.639 --> 00:16:42.389
from the build funding
00:16:42.399 --> 00:16:44.150
>> I got to figure out how I'm going to
00:16:44.160 --> 00:16:47.509
review 1900 inventories with just three
00:16:47.519 --> 00:16:49.030
new additional staff
00:16:49.040 --> 00:16:52.310
>> so to me software was needed as a
00:16:52.320 --> 00:16:54.550
solution I said at the conference back
00:16:54.560 --> 00:16:57.269
in you know 20 uh But three or four
00:16:57.279 --> 00:16:59.350
years back is like we got to be looking
00:16:59.360 --> 00:17:01.990
at software as a solution because EPA is
00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:05.590
not giving us any assistance um on side
00:17:05.600 --> 00:17:07.029
you know they're just going to capture
00:17:07.039 --> 00:17:09.110
these five fields and transfer over to
00:17:09.120 --> 00:17:12.390
SIDBS but the got to be doing all of the
00:17:12.400 --> 00:17:14.069
of the heavy work
00:17:14.079 --> 00:17:16.710
>> we need a software not just for the
00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:18.710
inventory submission but more
00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:20.309
importantly I think the state work
00:17:20.319 --> 00:17:23.590
starts now from the baseline inventory
00:17:23.600 --> 00:17:25.350
>> yeah how are you going to make sure
00:17:25.360 --> 00:17:26.870
>> there are new workflows those that are
00:17:26.880 --> 00:17:28.309
>> right. All of these things going to kick
00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:29.830
in now, right? You going to talk about
00:17:29.840 --> 00:17:31.430
school and daycare sampling got to be
00:17:31.440 --> 00:17:34.070
done. The replacement plans are due, you
00:17:34.080 --> 00:17:35.909
know, they the make sure that they're on
00:17:35.919 --> 00:17:38.150
track to do the replacements, right? Uh
00:17:38.160 --> 00:17:39.909
the tiers are going to change based on
00:17:39.919 --> 00:17:42.230
on where the inventory is. So whole
00:17:42.240 --> 00:17:44.390
sampling plans can change. So there's a
00:17:44.400 --> 00:17:47.190
lot of work that the state has to do and
00:17:47.200 --> 00:17:49.990
there is no tools built by EPA or in
00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:52.070
SIB. So nothing was existing at the time
00:17:52.080 --> 00:17:54.789
in private sector even to purchase. So
00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:56.630
that's why I started having conversation
00:17:56.640 --> 00:17:59.110
with with about having an inventory and
00:17:59.120 --> 00:18:01.750
then at the time 120 water was there and
00:18:01.760 --> 00:18:03.190
they started having conversation with
00:18:03.200 --> 00:18:04.710
myself and say hey we can help you
00:18:04.720 --> 00:18:06.789
develop a tool what is your vision and
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:08.630
that was my vision to
00:18:08.640 --> 00:18:11.190
>> have something that will make a
00:18:11.200 --> 00:18:13.270
dashboard where everything comes in one
00:18:13.280 --> 00:18:16.230
place and and that's how that's how we I
00:18:16.240 --> 00:18:18.310
got started with 120 waters you know on
00:18:18.320 --> 00:18:20.630
on the site. Yep. stays consistent with
00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:22.870
your origin story of like like wanting
00:18:22.880 --> 00:18:26.070
that drive to be part of the designing.
00:18:26.080 --> 00:18:28.950
It was it was an opportunity to lean in.
00:18:28.960 --> 00:18:31.430
Not everything was done. It was like it
00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:33.750
was this is what's possible, but before
00:18:33.760 --> 00:18:37.190
we put a ton of a ton of uh hands-on
00:18:37.200 --> 00:18:39.669
keyboards and code, um let's make sure
00:18:39.679 --> 00:18:43.110
we're designing this for the needs that
00:18:43.120 --> 00:18:46.310
are we're taking this workflow, but we
00:18:46.320 --> 00:18:48.549
know that this is the start of what can
00:18:48.559 --> 00:18:55.270
be a a much larger value to um to state
00:18:55.280 --> 00:18:58.630
agencies, to utilities, and ultimately
00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:00.230
to the public. Absolutely.
00:19:00.240 --> 00:19:05.029
>> Um yeah. Yeah. Um yeah. And um um Is
00:19:05.039 --> 00:19:06.549
there anything else you you'd like?
00:19:06.559 --> 00:19:08.470
>> I think the CCR
00:19:08.480 --> 00:19:10.870
and copper is is Sorry, didn't mean to
00:19:10.880 --> 00:19:12.549
talk you over. I'm sorry.
00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:14.710
>> Like oh LCR like Yeah, we know that
00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:16.390
that's that's the place. I don't want to
00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:18.549
dwell dwell on that. There's so much
00:19:18.559 --> 00:19:19.029
more.
00:19:19.039 --> 00:19:20.630
>> There's so much more. There's so much
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:21.669
more. So I mean
00:19:21.679 --> 00:19:23.590
>> where do you think the opportunity is?
00:19:23.600 --> 00:19:25.430
Well, I think when I when I look at if I
00:19:25.440 --> 00:19:27.590
put my uh state regulator hat back
00:19:27.600 --> 00:19:30.150
saying if I had stayed longer at at EPD
00:19:30.160 --> 00:19:32.549
and not retired, what next challenges I
00:19:32.559 --> 00:19:35.190
would be tackling. So for me uh looking
00:19:35.200 --> 00:19:36.390
at
00:19:36.400 --> 00:19:38.070
>> two two other things that I would have
00:19:38.080 --> 00:19:39.909
definitely handled. So monthly operating
00:19:39.919 --> 00:19:42.150
reports is one of them, right? M
00:19:42.160 --> 00:19:44.230
>> the safe drinking water act requires all
00:19:44.240 --> 00:19:45.830
water system submit the monthly
00:19:45.840 --> 00:19:48.230
operating reports and and and the
00:19:48.240 --> 00:19:50.630
problem there is as a as I look around
00:19:50.640 --> 00:19:52.310
the landscape on the nation you know a
00:19:52.320 --> 00:19:54.710
lot of them are either receiving the uh
00:19:54.720 --> 00:19:57.669
email in a paper format you know as a
00:19:57.679 --> 00:20:00.230
attachment to email or they might have
00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:02.789
an homegrown solution like in Georgia we
00:20:02.799 --> 00:20:04.630
had a homegrown solution that was 25
00:20:04.640 --> 00:20:07.990
years old is antiquated is not doing
00:20:08.000 --> 00:20:09.909
what it stepped up with the with the
00:20:09.919 --> 00:20:11.430
corsed
00:20:11.440 --> 00:20:13.909
once by homegrown solution the
00:20:13.919 --> 00:20:16.470
traditional people are gone retired
00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:19.270
there's no support it breaks down offer
00:20:19.280 --> 00:20:21.430
there is no interface and there's no
00:20:21.440 --> 00:20:24.310
central dashboard so I can't see right
00:20:24.320 --> 00:20:26.390
now you know if you if you're receiving
00:20:26.400 --> 00:20:28.710
electronically you don't even know if
00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:30.549
all the water systems are submitted the
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:32.390
monthly operating reports whether there
00:20:32.400 --> 00:20:34.470
were any violations or not so what my
00:20:34.480 --> 00:20:36.710
vision was to to have a monthly
00:20:36.720 --> 00:20:38.710
operating report um submitted
00:20:38.720 --> 00:20:41.669
electronically and and um have a
00:20:41.679 --> 00:20:43.350
dashboard similar to what we have for
00:20:43.360 --> 00:20:45.110
lead and copper in the same dashboard
00:20:45.120 --> 00:20:47.110
where you know it's like a separate tab
00:20:47.120 --> 00:20:48.950
or separate program where
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:50.950
>> my staff has access to it. Now they can
00:20:50.960 --> 00:20:52.789
see right on the 10th of the month when
00:20:52.799 --> 00:20:55.190
it's due which water system submitted
00:20:55.200 --> 00:20:57.350
which did not. That makes compliance so
00:20:57.360 --> 00:20:58.870
much easy. Now we can just pick up the
00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:00.549
phone and call those five water system
00:21:00.559 --> 00:21:02.789
and saying hey before I sent you notice
00:21:02.799 --> 00:21:05.669
a violation did you submit or did not
00:21:05.679 --> 00:21:07.029
submit because I don't see anything on
00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:09.590
my end right that's what is going to
00:21:09.600 --> 00:21:11.029
bring in efficiencies rather than
00:21:11.039 --> 00:21:14.310
sorting through 2400 emails and figuring
00:21:14.320 --> 00:21:15.990
out if everything came through or not
00:21:16.000 --> 00:21:18.149
and then also looking into data and
00:21:18.159 --> 00:21:20.390
seeing which water systems actually
00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:23.110
exceeded MCL or residure chlorine or
00:21:23.120 --> 00:21:25.990
iron or whatever the case might be right
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:28.149
>> the you know what my vision was to that
00:21:28.159 --> 00:21:29.990
the software can just flag saying you
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:32.870
got 10 system that exceeded something.
00:21:32.880 --> 00:21:35.590
>> Now my staff can focus on those 10
00:21:35.600 --> 00:21:37.990
system and see what the accidents were
00:21:38.000 --> 00:21:40.630
and the rest of them just like we did in
00:21:40.640 --> 00:21:43.110
in LCR put all these guardrails so that
00:21:43.120 --> 00:21:45.029
you know the the data that comes in is
00:21:45.039 --> 00:21:46.710
already cleaned up. You don't have to
00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:47.350
worry about
00:21:47.360 --> 00:21:49.350
>> the QAQC is kind of happening on the
00:21:49.360 --> 00:21:50.630
front end
00:21:50.640 --> 00:21:53.190
>> more than more than like six months
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:54.870
later. Oh, we found out that this is
00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:56.310
wrong. Like this is wrong.
00:21:56.320 --> 00:21:58.390
>> And and it's more, you know, it's more I
00:21:58.400 --> 00:22:00.149
think it's better response time because,
00:22:00.159 --> 00:22:01.669
you know, now I on the 10th of the
00:22:01.679 --> 00:22:03.270
month, I can issue out the notice of
00:22:03.280 --> 00:22:05.590
violation. I can look at those 10 plants
00:22:05.600 --> 00:22:07.270
and send them, you know, send the
00:22:07.280 --> 00:22:09.430
violations of MCL or whatever the case
00:22:09.440 --> 00:22:12.630
might be, right? It's taking 30, 45, 60,
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:14.870
90 days to get to those reports. And you
00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:16.789
got to keep in mind, we got this report
00:22:16.799 --> 00:22:18.789
2400 reports coming every month. So
00:22:18.799 --> 00:22:20.789
there's no opportunity to catch up.
00:22:20.799 --> 00:22:22.789
>> Uh you're always behind. So that would
00:22:22.799 --> 00:22:24.710
be one program that would have
00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:26.630
definitely uh looked at you know
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:29.029
upgrading modernizing using a dashboard
00:22:29.039 --> 00:22:31.830
kind of setup. And the third thing that
00:22:31.840 --> 00:22:34.470
comes to my mind is the the CCRs. You
00:22:34.480 --> 00:22:36.310
know, as we all know,
00:22:36.320 --> 00:22:38.630
>> CCRs used to be once a once a year.
00:22:38.640 --> 00:22:40.710
Again, I think there is no central
00:22:40.720 --> 00:22:43.510
system that pe people get it via email,
00:22:43.520 --> 00:22:45.909
paper, fax, you name it, in many
00:22:45.919 --> 00:22:49.830
different ways, you know. Um and and um
00:22:49.840 --> 00:22:52.549
uh and again is we don't know. I mean, I
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:53.430
had staff
00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:56.710
>> and so much of that is data that is in
00:22:56.720 --> 00:22:59.590
the other programs. Correct. data is
00:22:59.600 --> 00:23:01.669
already in Sidway. You know, the EPA
00:23:01.679 --> 00:23:04.470
does have a CCR generator where does the
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.789
some of the heavy lift but it the water
00:23:06.799 --> 00:23:08.549
system still have to make fill some
00:23:08.559 --> 00:23:09.909
portions of it.
00:23:09.919 --> 00:23:11.510
>> And for example, it didn't have the lead
00:23:11.520 --> 00:23:13.510
and copper components to it but that was
00:23:13.520 --> 00:23:16.950
to be added. UCMR5 has to be added. So
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:18.390
there's you know it does gives you a
00:23:18.400 --> 00:23:20.710
shell but not complete in my opinion.
00:23:20.720 --> 00:23:22.310
And then I'm from if I'm looking on the
00:23:22.320 --> 00:23:25.510
state side it's coming through emails. I
00:23:25.520 --> 00:23:27.110
don't know. I have to wait till July 1st
00:23:27.120 --> 00:23:29.190
to see how many came in, did not come
00:23:29.200 --> 00:23:29.909
in.
00:23:29.919 --> 00:23:33.430
>> Uh and and and then we obviously don't
00:23:33.440 --> 00:23:36.310
have resources to manage of 2400. We
00:23:36.320 --> 00:23:38.390
just randomly pick about 20% of them and
00:23:38.400 --> 00:23:40.230
and see if they're complete or not.
00:23:40.240 --> 00:23:42.630
>> Yeah. So you got you got a staff again
00:23:42.640 --> 00:23:44.710
same kind of thing where if CCRs can be
00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:47.510
generated using existing sampling data
00:23:47.520 --> 00:23:49.190
which all the water systems take you
00:23:49.200 --> 00:23:50.630
know whether be
00:23:50.640 --> 00:23:52.950
>> um in in SIDVIS or or in a sample
00:23:52.960 --> 00:23:54.870
manager kind of program that 120 water
00:23:54.880 --> 00:23:56.950
has you know if all that can be
00:23:56.960 --> 00:24:00.149
automated and then emailed out you know
00:24:00.159 --> 00:24:02.710
um and and I think 120 water has you
00:24:02.720 --> 00:24:06.789
know email out where we have a uh
00:24:06.799 --> 00:24:08.630
accountability where we can open it see
00:24:08.640 --> 00:24:10.149
how many emails were sent which were
00:24:10.159 --> 00:24:11.669
open, which were not open, which were
00:24:11.679 --> 00:24:13.590
bound. So, you got a track instead of
00:24:13.600 --> 00:24:16.789
this old snail mail approach. I think
00:24:16.799 --> 00:24:19.190
old it's nobody, you know,
00:24:19.200 --> 00:24:21.350
>> I would rather trust an email than touch
00:24:21.360 --> 00:24:23.669
uh trust a US mail, right? I mean, for
00:24:23.679 --> 00:24:25.190
people even opening that email.
00:24:25.200 --> 00:24:25.990
>> Absolutely.
00:24:26.000 --> 00:24:27.750
>> So, that is the third thing that I would
00:24:27.760 --> 00:24:29.669
look if if I want to bring efficiency,
00:24:29.679 --> 00:24:31.909
if I had hang around at EPD for the next
00:24:31.919 --> 00:24:34.230
couple of years, that would be my wish
00:24:34.240 --> 00:24:35.110
list on
00:24:35.120 --> 00:24:37.269
>> Yeah. You know we got LCR like I said
00:24:37.279 --> 00:24:39.190
that's already been talked about but you
00:24:39.200 --> 00:24:42.230
know to me Morse is another example CCR
00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:45.110
is another example and if I talk five
00:24:45.120 --> 00:24:47.029
years out if I had hang around if I had
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:49.590
the money and resources to do it I would
00:24:49.600 --> 00:24:52.230
also bring all of the compliance module
00:24:52.240 --> 00:24:54.310
for each of the rule managers into the
00:24:54.320 --> 00:24:56.630
dashboard. So then everything that the
00:24:56.640 --> 00:24:59.269
state drinking water program runs it's
00:24:59.279 --> 00:25:01.190
under one dashboard. Here's my info on
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:03.830
that in copper. Here's my info on CCRs.
00:25:03.840 --> 00:25:06.149
Here's my info on moores. you know even
00:25:06.159 --> 00:25:08.149
you can include boil water notices you
00:25:08.159 --> 00:25:10.630
know um goes on in the state right you
00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:11.590
can do that
00:25:11.600 --> 00:25:14.149
>> so that would be my grand vision if I
00:25:14.159 --> 00:25:17.669
had the time money and the resources to
00:25:17.679 --> 00:25:20.230
bring digital changes into the drinking
00:25:20.240 --> 00:25:22.230
water sector and personally I think it's
00:25:22.240 --> 00:25:26.630
about 20 20 years behind we are quarter
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:28.710
behind on technology
00:25:28.720 --> 00:25:32.549
>> yeah and I think you know kind of going
00:25:32.559 --> 00:25:35.430
to the funding challenge that we always
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:37.830
have. I do think that sometimes we try
00:25:37.840 --> 00:25:41.990
to solve funding backwards and and and
00:25:42.000 --> 00:25:44.070
everything that you're talking about is
00:25:44.080 --> 00:25:46.390
saying, hey, we might be able to get
00:25:46.400 --> 00:25:48.149
better leading indicators, higher
00:25:48.159 --> 00:25:51.430
quality data, a better way of saying
00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:55.269
what are the needs to address critical
00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:57.909
failing infrastructure and what serves
00:25:57.919 --> 00:25:59.909
us best. And I think that it's hard to
00:25:59.919 --> 00:26:02.950
tell that story when you know how do you
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:05.590
easily tell that story to mayors to
00:26:05.600 --> 00:26:08.310
governors to make its way all the way up
00:26:08.320 --> 00:26:11.590
to state congress and federal to say hey
00:26:11.600 --> 00:26:14.310
this is important instead of saying it's
00:26:14.320 --> 00:26:17.830
important because we had to react to an
00:26:17.840 --> 00:26:21.750
event like like Flint or Jackson uh
00:26:21.760 --> 00:26:24.149
Mississippi like instead of and saying
00:26:24.159 --> 00:26:25.430
hey we actually have some leading
00:26:25.440 --> 00:26:27.990
indicators of what's what's around the
00:26:28.000 --> 00:26:30.710
corner corner because we have
00:26:30.720 --> 00:26:32.149
>> standardized data and we're seeing the
00:26:32.159 --> 00:26:34.149
trends. Well, that's that's the thing I
00:26:34.159 --> 00:26:38.390
think in my mind data is powerful tool
00:26:38.400 --> 00:26:40.710
you know when you can vis when you can
00:26:40.720 --> 00:26:42.630
visually display the data it even
00:26:42.640 --> 00:26:44.630
becomes more powerful right yeah
00:26:44.640 --> 00:26:47.110
>> so having a having access to the data
00:26:47.120 --> 00:26:49.510
the trends and so catching some of that
00:26:49.520 --> 00:26:51.830
beforehand I mean if you look at a
00:26:51.840 --> 00:26:55.269
typical uh you know SRF agency what they
00:26:55.279 --> 00:26:57.269
do they would you know get the funding
00:26:57.279 --> 00:26:59.510
then they would call out for projects
00:26:59.520 --> 00:27:01.590
and water system would submit and some
00:27:01.600 --> 00:27:03.269
will get the money. Someone won't get
00:27:03.279 --> 00:27:04.630
the money because as we know there's
00:27:04.640 --> 00:27:06.950
never enough money. But instead if we
00:27:06.960 --> 00:27:08.870
have a datadriven approach where even
00:27:08.880 --> 00:27:11.510
the SRF folks can look at and saying we
00:27:11.520 --> 00:27:14.470
got problems with DBPS this water system
00:27:14.480 --> 00:27:16.470
have issues with for example I'm picking
00:27:16.480 --> 00:27:17.669
on DBPs
00:27:17.679 --> 00:27:20.310
>> for last five years they need some
00:27:20.320 --> 00:27:23.190
funding and we can and those are really
00:27:23.200 --> 00:27:23.590
not
00:27:23.600 --> 00:27:25.590
>> like the risk level is high all of the
00:27:25.600 --> 00:27:28.070
indicators are saying we should
00:27:28.080 --> 00:27:30.070
prioritize this instead
00:27:30.080 --> 00:27:32.950
>> instead instead of replacing automatic
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:34.950
meters AMIs I'm not saying those are bad
00:27:34.960 --> 00:27:35.990
but you
00:27:36.000 --> 00:27:37.110
you know yes
00:27:37.120 --> 00:27:39.190
>> when you have limited funds how do you
00:27:39.200 --> 00:27:40.950
how do you prioritize
00:27:40.960 --> 00:27:42.549
>> prioritize the fund and I think that's
00:27:42.559 --> 00:27:45.430
the value of having all of these data in
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:48.070
a dashboard kind of formats where we
00:27:48.080 --> 00:27:50.630
again you know the AI we can slap on an
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:53.430
AI module on top of that AI module can
00:27:53.440 --> 00:27:55.990
look at all these trends and and alert
00:27:56.000 --> 00:27:57.830
you of what is going on hey if you don't
00:27:57.840 --> 00:27:59.669
watch out they you know this water
00:27:59.679 --> 00:28:01.750
system is going to be out of compliance
00:28:01.760 --> 00:28:04.470
uh and so now the technical assistance
00:28:04.480 --> 00:28:07.430
providers can get be proactive rather
00:28:07.440 --> 00:28:10.950
than reactive. the SRF model
00:28:10.960 --> 00:28:12.870
out the consequences like Bay, hey,
00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:14.630
what's the consequence of failure for
00:28:14.640 --> 00:28:16.630
this? And you know, I think that that's
00:28:16.640 --> 00:28:18.389
one of the things that you were also
00:28:18.399 --> 00:28:21.029
instrumental in. And it kind of it kind
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:23.430
of blows my mind when I when I think
00:28:23.440 --> 00:28:26.870
about how um
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:31.029
how modern of a society we are. And yet
00:28:31.039 --> 00:28:34.870
we are just new to even having um
00:28:34.880 --> 00:28:37.190
updated asset management rules
00:28:37.200 --> 00:28:40.230
requirements because but yet we still we
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:42.950
know that the headlines are hey critical
00:28:42.960 --> 00:28:46.149
infrastructure is failing and but we
00:28:46.159 --> 00:28:48.870
also don't have a mechanism to or
00:28:48.880 --> 00:28:51.269
haven't had until more recently
00:28:51.279 --> 00:28:54.549
mechanisms to say hey we need an asset
00:28:54.559 --> 00:28:55.990
management have to understand the
00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:57.430
condition of assets so that we can
00:28:57.440 --> 00:29:00.710
understand are we at risk of having a
00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:03.669
failure. Um yeah, talk to me a bit about
00:29:03.679 --> 00:29:04.870
asset management.
00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:06.870
>> I think that's another topic that is
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:09.110
near and dear to my heart. You know, I
00:29:09.120 --> 00:29:12.630
truly think um you know, water utilities
00:29:12.640 --> 00:29:16.470
need a a proactive asset management
00:29:16.480 --> 00:29:18.070
tool. I don't like to just make the
00:29:18.080 --> 00:29:19.909
rules where they do an asset management
00:29:19.919 --> 00:29:21.909
study and put the data on the shelf.
00:29:21.919 --> 00:29:24.549
That does no good to anybody. Um you
00:29:24.559 --> 00:29:27.750
know what surprised me is with a handful
00:29:27.760 --> 00:29:29.590
of even some larger utilities you know
00:29:29.600 --> 00:29:32.310
they did not have a robust asset
00:29:32.320 --> 00:29:33.990
management program you know they didn't
00:29:34.000 --> 00:29:37.830
even have a complete inventory of all of
00:29:37.840 --> 00:29:40.470
their linear assets and when they go
00:29:40.480 --> 00:29:42.470
through that you know they they really
00:29:42.480 --> 00:29:45.750
surprised at themselves of how much uh
00:29:45.760 --> 00:29:49.110
asset it's old they'd even capture some
00:29:49.120 --> 00:29:51.269
asset they didn't have on the books so
00:29:51.279 --> 00:29:53.110
that's the one thing is just getting a
00:29:53.120 --> 00:29:55.350
complete picture of all your asset,
00:29:55.360 --> 00:29:58.789
their age, their conditions, right? And
00:29:58.799 --> 00:30:01.350
how long will they last? Can I do a
00:30:01.360 --> 00:30:03.190
maintenance, preventive maintenance on
00:30:03.200 --> 00:30:05.669
this assets and extend the life of the
00:30:05.679 --> 00:30:08.310
asset rather than doing waiting for a
00:30:08.320 --> 00:30:11.830
catastrophic failure uh of the asset. Uh
00:30:11.840 --> 00:30:14.310
so asset management, you know, I give
00:30:14.320 --> 00:30:15.909
example of larger utility in Atlanta
00:30:15.919 --> 00:30:17.190
when they started going through the
00:30:17.200 --> 00:30:19.110
program, one thing that you don't
00:30:19.120 --> 00:30:20.389
consider, you're always thinking if
00:30:20.399 --> 00:30:21.830
you're a utility, you're always thinking
00:30:21.840 --> 00:30:23.590
vertical asset, right? Think about your
00:30:23.600 --> 00:30:25.750
billing system. Computers needs to be
00:30:25.760 --> 00:30:28.630
replaced three to five years max, right?
00:30:28.640 --> 00:30:30.549
>> That's a big IT expense that nobody
00:30:30.559 --> 00:30:33.590
accounts for, right? Your trucks on the
00:30:33.600 --> 00:30:36.070
road 10 year life frame life frame,
00:30:36.080 --> 00:30:37.510
right? Again, nobody's thinking of them
00:30:37.520 --> 00:30:39.190
as a linear asset. So when they started
00:30:39.200 --> 00:30:40.870
going through this exercise, it was
00:30:40.880 --> 00:30:43.669
really an eyeopener. And I think the the
00:30:43.679 --> 00:30:45.269
second thing that really opened their
00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:48.389
eye was I, you know, look at your look
00:30:48.399 --> 00:30:50.549
do a reserve study. Are you putting
00:30:50.559 --> 00:30:52.470
enough? How much money you going to need
00:30:52.480 --> 00:30:54.870
over the years? One year, two years, 5
00:30:54.880 --> 00:30:56.789
years to do some of these project.
00:30:56.799 --> 00:30:58.149
>> When you start looking at from that
00:30:58.159 --> 00:30:59.830
perspective, it starts opening your
00:30:59.840 --> 00:31:03.110
eyes. Um but more importantly to me is
00:31:03.120 --> 00:31:04.950
getting started in asset management,
00:31:04.960 --> 00:31:07.669
getting an inventory of your asset,
00:31:07.679 --> 00:31:10.230
getting an a condition of your asset and
00:31:10.240 --> 00:31:13.510
just even having a PM proactive PM in
00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:16.789
place making sure uh and then it you
00:31:16.799 --> 00:31:19.269
know adding an AI on top of it where we
00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:21.269
can say hey you know this asset is at
00:31:21.279 --> 00:31:23.029
risk you might want to service this one
00:31:23.039 --> 00:31:25.750
first you know we can also pin stop
00:31:25.760 --> 00:31:28.549
pinpointing the leaks in a system and
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:31.190
you'll suddenly find out that in you,
00:31:31.200 --> 00:31:32.310
you know, you got most what your
00:31:32.320 --> 00:31:33.830
tourists as we know have a replacement
00:31:33.840 --> 00:31:35.909
plan, right? You know, they're replacing
00:31:35.919 --> 00:31:38.950
3% or 2% of whatever the number is of
00:31:38.960 --> 00:31:41.990
their of their pipes every year. And the
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:44.230
the conventional wisdom in industry,
00:31:44.240 --> 00:31:46.470
start with the oldest first and work
00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:47.990
your way up. Well, when you start
00:31:48.000 --> 00:31:49.509
putting the data together, you'll
00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:52.389
certainly find out or or or may find out
00:31:52.399 --> 00:31:55.430
and some some have is like even though
00:31:55.440 --> 00:31:57.509
you know some of the older assets are
00:31:57.519 --> 00:31:59.190
holding pretty good, but then on the
00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:01.110
north side of the town where the assets
00:32:01.120 --> 00:32:04.070
are new, the pipes are new, but they're
00:32:04.080 --> 00:32:06.470
having more breaks and that could be
00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:08.950
either poor construction, poor material,
00:32:08.960 --> 00:32:09.590
you know.
00:32:09.600 --> 00:32:12.630
>> Yeah, age isn't the most age is not the
00:32:12.640 --> 00:32:15.909
right indicator.
00:32:15.919 --> 00:32:17.830
age is not just the one indicator
00:32:17.840 --> 00:32:19.830
>> has to get put in against other event
00:32:19.840 --> 00:32:21.990
data and how is it performed over time
00:32:22.000 --> 00:32:24.630
like there's there's a whole
00:32:24.640 --> 00:32:27.190
>> slightly not a highly sophisticated
00:32:27.200 --> 00:32:29.430
algorithm just a slightly more
00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:32.389
sophisticated algorithm to say hey m
00:32:32.399 --> 00:32:34.630
like let's make sure and I actually
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:36.789
think that that's part of the problem
00:32:36.799 --> 00:32:38.950
that we have when we try to make cases
00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:42.789
for funding is that we talk about it in
00:32:42.799 --> 00:32:45.430
terms of such a big number but we fail
00:32:45.440 --> 00:32:47.190
fail to be able to tell the story in a
00:32:47.200 --> 00:32:49.750
way that breaks it down into meaningful
00:32:49.760 --> 00:32:51.269
actionable
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:53.669
near-term actions that start making a
00:32:53.679 --> 00:32:55.750
dent. And so it's like we have trillions
00:32:55.760 --> 00:32:57.830
of dollars that we it's like great but
00:32:57.840 --> 00:33:00.630
what could we do with
00:33:00.640 --> 00:33:02.149
hundreds of millions where would we
00:33:02.159 --> 00:33:03.590
prioritize that that it would have the
00:33:03.600 --> 00:33:06.310
most lift? So like it otherwise it just
00:33:06.320 --> 00:33:07.990
is it's just too
00:33:08.000 --> 00:33:10.230
>> I think I think you're hitting a good
00:33:10.240 --> 00:33:12.789
point where I think the as an industry
00:33:12.799 --> 00:33:15.430
we're not able to trill or articulate
00:33:15.440 --> 00:33:16.870
our story well
00:33:16.880 --> 00:33:18.950
>> and I think it's to me it's an art I
00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:20.630
don't have that art when I see some
00:33:20.640 --> 00:33:22.310
other people do that I'm like man you
00:33:22.320 --> 00:33:24.470
guys are great you know where to take
00:33:24.480 --> 00:33:27.190
this complex data and complex story and
00:33:27.200 --> 00:33:29.430
distill it down where we can get
00:33:29.440 --> 00:33:33.269
attention and that that is important to
00:33:33.279 --> 00:33:34.710
>> as whether Whether you're a state,
00:33:34.720 --> 00:33:36.149
whether you're a utility, I don't care
00:33:36.159 --> 00:33:38.149
where you which spectrum you come from,
00:33:38.159 --> 00:33:41.350
right? That is something that we as an
00:33:41.360 --> 00:33:43.750
industry have failed to articulate our
00:33:43.760 --> 00:33:46.310
story of our needs of like the new
00:33:46.320 --> 00:33:48.549
service are done every 5 years, you
00:33:48.559 --> 00:33:51.110
know, and yes, it it typically shows we
00:33:51.120 --> 00:33:52.950
need trillions of dollars every year.
00:33:52.960 --> 00:33:54.870
Yeah. But yeah, you know, what can we
00:33:54.880 --> 00:33:58.630
get now that will make the most impact
00:33:58.640 --> 00:34:01.830
uh is what we have failed to show. Uh
00:34:01.840 --> 00:34:03.990
yeah, and it's always counterintuitive
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:05.909
because I think I think it's human
00:34:05.919 --> 00:34:09.750
nature to say, oh, the the biggest most
00:34:09.760 --> 00:34:13.349
eye popping headline will get the story,
00:34:13.359 --> 00:34:16.470
but it actually is like what are the
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:18.710
when you're able to articulate, hey,
00:34:18.720 --> 00:34:21.270
what are the what are the steps? let me
00:34:21.280 --> 00:34:24.069
do a crosswalk on how what my use of
00:34:24.079 --> 00:34:25.510
funds would be and what the impact of
00:34:25.520 --> 00:34:27.030
that would be and I can back that up
00:34:27.040 --> 00:34:29.030
because I think you you were saying like
00:34:29.040 --> 00:34:33.030
you know data does tell the story and so
00:34:33.040 --> 00:34:35.510
and I think that's ultimately we can
00:34:35.520 --> 00:34:37.270
tell stories but then when when people
00:34:37.280 --> 00:34:39.109
say okay that's a huge headline how
00:34:39.119 --> 00:34:40.710
where are we how are we backing that up
00:34:40.720 --> 00:34:42.550
and it's like well hypothetically if
00:34:42.560 --> 00:34:44.389
everything failed at once then it'd be
00:34:44.399 --> 00:34:46.869
you know 500 trillion dollars
00:34:46.879 --> 00:34:48.550
>> we're always talking a catastrophic
00:34:48.560 --> 00:34:50.710
situation and I can I can really boil
00:34:50.720 --> 00:34:52.629
down to really simple example like that
00:34:52.639 --> 00:34:55.270
that even you know an operator can
00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:56.629
relate to right I mean
00:34:56.639 --> 00:34:58.950
>> I need a new car 5 years from now okay
00:34:58.960 --> 00:35:00.390
great you know that's going to be
00:35:00.400 --> 00:35:04.230
$50,000 but I have failing brakes and I
00:35:04.240 --> 00:35:06.550
got tires that are shot up I mean that
00:35:06.560 --> 00:35:08.790
that to me is critical right now I need
00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:11.670
money for that so the car is safe it
00:35:11.680 --> 00:35:13.510
doesn't break down and I can get from
00:35:13.520 --> 00:35:15.990
point A to point B right that's the
00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:18.310
story we're failing to tell yes I do
00:35:18.320 --> 00:35:20.150
need $50,000
00:35:20.160 --> 00:35:23.589
from now I need $1,000 right now to fix
00:35:23.599 --> 00:35:26.390
the brakes so that it is safe and the
00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:29.190
car will last longer and do all this
00:35:29.200 --> 00:35:31.109
basic maintenance stuff, right?
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:32.950
>> Yeah. And and that's the that's the
00:35:32.960 --> 00:35:35.030
story we have failed to do. Yeah.
00:35:35.040 --> 00:35:37.349
>> Yeah. Yeah, man. Well, we could take
00:35:37.359 --> 00:35:39.589
this conversation in a million places. I
00:35:39.599 --> 00:35:42.630
kind of want to like um and we we can
00:35:42.640 --> 00:35:45.270
certainly have have additional segments
00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:48.470
um with you and and other uh other folks
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:50.710
and and maybe you and I uh co-host a
00:35:50.720 --> 00:35:53.109
couple and and bring on some other love
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:55.349
to like I said we can talk a lot each
00:35:55.359 --> 00:36:01.349
one of these in in his own own own seg.
00:36:01.359 --> 00:36:02.069
Yep.
00:36:02.079 --> 00:36:04.310
>> Yeah. I do want to ask like just kind of
00:36:04.320 --> 00:36:06.470
as we as we land the plane on this like
00:36:06.480 --> 00:36:10.069
you know after 20 years as a regulator
00:36:10.079 --> 00:36:12.150
what what made you want to join a
00:36:12.160 --> 00:36:15.910
solution provider um like 120?
00:36:15.920 --> 00:36:18.710
>> Well, so I'll be very frank with you. I
00:36:18.720 --> 00:36:20.950
actually was not looking forward to to
00:36:20.960 --> 00:36:23.109
you know retire. I just turned 16 March
00:36:23.119 --> 00:36:25.030
and it was one of those milestones where
00:36:25.040 --> 00:36:28.390
I was eligible to retire from the state
00:36:28.400 --> 00:36:30.790
and I said hard and saying okay am I
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:33.190
really ready to throw the hat and just
00:36:33.200 --> 00:36:36.069
go fishing you know whatever people you
00:36:36.079 --> 00:36:37.750
know want to do
00:36:37.760 --> 00:36:39.990
>> and I'm still young I mean I want to
00:36:40.000 --> 00:36:43.349
stay engaged in this sector uh and I
00:36:43.359 --> 00:36:46.310
think I have done what I wanted to do on
00:36:46.320 --> 00:36:49.109
the regulatory side which is being an
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:51.589
advocate for the states an advocate for
00:36:51.599 --> 00:36:53.750
the water systems and and ad you know
00:36:53.760 --> 00:36:55.510
I've been as you know I was on the OSA
00:36:55.520 --> 00:36:57.670
board for a couple of years advocating
00:36:57.680 --> 00:37:00.069
on behalf of of all the member states
00:37:00.079 --> 00:37:03.430
and and tribes um you know for whether
00:37:03.440 --> 00:37:05.349
it's more funding support on the rule
00:37:05.359 --> 00:37:07.829
implementations or I've even taken on
00:37:07.839 --> 00:37:10.630
big uh you know for example when I was
00:37:10.640 --> 00:37:12.150
at the state and I've revised the
00:37:12.160 --> 00:37:14.230
minimum standard that were 20 years old
00:37:14.240 --> 00:37:16.230
you know that nobody it's a big project
00:37:16.240 --> 00:37:18.710
200 plus pages of technical stuff so
00:37:18.720 --> 00:37:20.950
I've challenged some difficult stuff And
00:37:20.960 --> 00:37:22.950
I thought, you know, I had with with the
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:26.470
staff that I had, even if I do decide to
00:37:26.480 --> 00:37:28.470
do retire, I was going to leave the
00:37:28.480 --> 00:37:32.150
state in a much comfortable place and I
00:37:32.160 --> 00:37:34.950
inherited it. So I I felt good at the
00:37:34.960 --> 00:37:36.710
point as I started looking around and
00:37:36.720 --> 00:37:38.630
saying where do where can I make the
00:37:38.640 --> 00:37:41.510
next impact you know uh and and I had
00:37:41.520 --> 00:37:43.750
some conversation with our CEO at 120
00:37:43.760 --> 00:37:47.430
water and I you know and when I met him
00:37:47.440 --> 00:37:49.109
couple of times I think the vision
00:37:49.119 --> 00:37:52.390
started aligning where where I think I
00:37:52.400 --> 00:37:54.710
wanted to be in terms of being staying
00:37:54.720 --> 00:37:58.470
engaged but making the next difference
00:37:58.480 --> 00:38:01.670
in the water sector. So you know and why
00:38:01.680 --> 00:38:03.750
120 there's other software providers I
00:38:03.760 --> 00:38:05.270
could have looked into it but I think
00:38:05.280 --> 00:38:07.670
when when I look at my experience and
00:38:07.680 --> 00:38:10.150
and all my fellow state regulators know
00:38:10.160 --> 00:38:11.910
that I've said that publicly you know
00:38:11.920 --> 00:38:13.910
again I'm not saying that because I am
00:38:13.920 --> 00:38:16.150
working for 120 water said this before
00:38:16.160 --> 00:38:17.109
as well
00:38:17.119 --> 00:38:20.310
>> that 120 water is more than a software
00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:21.990
provider. Yes, they they do make
00:38:22.000 --> 00:38:23.910
software for the water industry. But I
00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:26.630
think what we got when we partnered with
00:38:26.640 --> 00:38:29.430
120 water was the constant we met
00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:31.910
bi-weekly, you know, we got the training
00:38:31.920 --> 00:38:33.910
for the staff, training for the water
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:36.069
systems uh
00:38:36.079 --> 00:38:39.670
>> and webinars uh that 120 water puts out.
00:38:39.680 --> 00:38:42.230
is uh in in the train uh you know we did
00:38:42.240 --> 00:38:44.390
specific trainings for mobile home park
00:38:44.400 --> 00:38:47.109
specific trainings for the large water
00:38:47.119 --> 00:38:48.790
system you know specific trainings for
00:38:48.800 --> 00:38:51.510
the others uh and that kind of support
00:38:51.520 --> 00:38:54.550
and I bought software since 1988. I was
00:38:54.560 --> 00:38:57.190
involved in designing databases in 1988
00:38:57.200 --> 00:38:59.349
and I've bought many software throughout
00:38:59.359 --> 00:39:02.069
my career and and as you know a typical
00:39:02.079 --> 00:39:05.030
software uh is here's your software
00:39:05.040 --> 00:39:06.550
we're going to configure it you know
00:39:06.560 --> 00:39:08.310
deliver it to you train your staff for
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:10.950
30 days maybe 90 days and then after
00:39:10.960 --> 00:39:13.109
that you're on your own as far as
00:39:13.119 --> 00:39:15.910
implementation and training and and and
00:39:15.920 --> 00:39:19.190
just updates on it and I think 120 water
00:39:19.200 --> 00:39:22.630
>> thinks differently they truly have
00:39:22.640 --> 00:39:24.870
the states and the water systems
00:39:24.880 --> 00:39:27.030
interest at heart and making a change,
00:39:27.040 --> 00:39:29.750
making sure that both sides are
00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:32.470
successful. And I think that was that
00:39:32.480 --> 00:39:34.710
really I in all these four years that I
00:39:34.720 --> 00:39:36.870
was we were under the contract with 120
00:39:36.880 --> 00:39:40.230
water, I never heard a single time
00:39:40.240 --> 00:39:43.750
mention change order. Anybody that has
00:39:43.760 --> 00:39:45.990
bought software, they would always know,
00:39:46.000 --> 00:39:48.150
well, that's not part of the scope. We
00:39:48.160 --> 00:39:50.390
can do it, but that's a change order.
00:39:50.400 --> 00:39:52.069
And I think that was refreshing to hear
00:39:52.079 --> 00:39:54.390
that. But more than that, I think really
00:39:54.400 --> 00:39:56.310
that's just a regulatory aspect. But I
00:39:56.320 --> 00:39:58.230
think the support
00:39:58.240 --> 00:40:01.190
weekly meetings, no vendor will do that
00:40:01.200 --> 00:40:02.710
with you. You know where
00:40:02.720 --> 00:40:04.790
>> it was a commitment to the outcome and
00:40:04.800 --> 00:40:06.230
just saying are we aligned on the
00:40:06.240 --> 00:40:08.550
outcome? Um what is it going to take?
00:40:08.560 --> 00:40:11.750
And I do and I I know I'm like speaking
00:40:11.760 --> 00:40:14.550
from from this this side too, but I'm
00:40:14.560 --> 00:40:17.430
like we put a lot of emphasis on making
00:40:17.440 --> 00:40:19.910
sure we understood the partners in that
00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:22.470
state. Hey, who has reach? Let's make
00:40:22.480 --> 00:40:25.670
sure that we understand who a the
00:40:25.680 --> 00:40:28.310
chapter of AWWA in that state. Let's
00:40:28.320 --> 00:40:30.150
make sure we're plugged in there. Let's
00:40:30.160 --> 00:40:31.109
make sure we're plugged in with the
00:40:31.119 --> 00:40:33.430
Rural Water Association, the SRF, those
00:40:33.440 --> 00:40:34.710
things because
00:40:34.720 --> 00:40:38.310
>> we the it was like the the tool isn't to
00:40:38.320 --> 00:40:40.550
just be another it's not just supposed
00:40:40.560 --> 00:40:42.390
to be another tool that lives by itself.
00:40:42.400 --> 00:40:45.030
supposed to be something that everyone
00:40:45.040 --> 00:40:48.069
can work can use as a baseline for
00:40:48.079 --> 00:40:50.150
working together and becoming more
00:40:50.160 --> 00:40:53.270
efficient not just with dollars or
00:40:53.280 --> 00:40:57.030
compliance but across stakeholders. And
00:40:57.040 --> 00:40:58.550
that's that's what I consider the new
00:40:58.560 --> 00:41:01.270
the vision that Casey our CEOs share
00:41:01.280 --> 00:41:03.750
with me you know before I came on board
00:41:03.760 --> 00:41:05.510
is he has this vision where we're going
00:41:05.520 --> 00:41:08.230
to have basically two products you know
00:41:08.240 --> 00:41:10.550
one for the state and one for the water
00:41:10.560 --> 00:41:13.670
system state can have LCR you know like
00:41:13.680 --> 00:41:16.870
we talked about this morning more CCR
00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:19.829
compliance module all on one place water
00:41:19.839 --> 00:41:22.309
advisory whatever we want we have all in
00:41:22.319 --> 00:41:23.430
one place
00:41:23.440 --> 00:41:25.349
>> and on the utility sides you know we we
00:41:25.359 --> 00:41:27.030
want to track all of their you know
00:41:27.040 --> 00:41:29.349
water water quality you know whether all
00:41:29.359 --> 00:41:30.870
of the sampling are they taking all the
00:41:30.880 --> 00:41:32.230
samples or you know you totally needs
00:41:32.240 --> 00:41:34.790
the tool as well to make life easy it's
00:41:34.800 --> 00:41:37.349
a heavy burden on them you know with no
00:41:37.359 --> 00:41:40.150
extra money no extra dollars and how can
00:41:40.160 --> 00:41:42.630
we make it easy you know so all all of
00:41:42.640 --> 00:41:44.309
the products we're talking about on the
00:41:44.319 --> 00:41:46.230
state sides you know whether is asset
00:41:46.240 --> 00:41:48.309
management you know just going beyond
00:41:48.319 --> 00:41:50.950
LCRI you know taking care of the sample
00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:53.430
sampling schedules the results giving
00:41:53.440 --> 00:41:56.710
them a CCR generator tools you uh all of
00:41:56.720 --> 00:41:58.309
these things on one side then
00:41:58.319 --> 00:42:00.390
transferring over seamlessly to the
00:42:00.400 --> 00:42:03.270
state dashboard and to the SIDV that's
00:42:03.280 --> 00:42:06.390
the vision that Casey has at conveyed to
00:42:06.400 --> 00:42:08.550
me and I know 120 was water to me that
00:42:08.560 --> 00:42:10.950
was a game changer that's what we need
00:42:10.960 --> 00:42:12.870
>> and that's why I decided to come over on
00:42:12.880 --> 00:42:14.870
this side saying okay this is a time the
00:42:14.880 --> 00:42:17.750
next two years I can really have my say
00:42:17.760 --> 00:42:19.670
in how some of the system should be
00:42:19.680 --> 00:42:23.270
designed how look and feel should be
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:25.030
>> and I can leave my mark in the water
00:42:25.040 --> 00:42:26.950
industry when I do you know at some
00:42:26.960 --> 00:42:29.750
point decide to retire I could feel good
00:42:29.760 --> 00:42:31.990
about making a change on the regulatory
00:42:32.000 --> 00:42:34.309
side and also on the on the on the data
00:42:34.319 --> 00:42:36.550
size I was always been a fan of datam
00:42:36.560 --> 00:42:38.870
like I said back to 1998
00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:40.390
>> some some of the people might not know
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:43.109
but I went to same school as with Satya
00:42:43.119 --> 00:42:46.390
Nadella who is a CEO of Microsoft he was
00:42:46.400 --> 00:42:48.309
a year younger than me so I've been
00:42:48.319 --> 00:42:49.829
involved with the data yeah
00:42:49.839 --> 00:42:52.630
>> from the get-go from the 80s
00:42:52.640 --> 00:42:55.190
>> yeah yeah that that's awesome and That
00:42:55.200 --> 00:42:57.109
that is that is one thing I I just
00:42:57.119 --> 00:42:59.670
learned about you too. That that is uh
00:42:59.680 --> 00:43:01.990
that's that's amazing. Well, and you
00:43:02.000 --> 00:43:03.910
know the impact that you were able to
00:43:03.920 --> 00:43:06.309
have both as a regulator and now on this
00:43:06.319 --> 00:43:09.750
side um I think I think is good for the
00:43:09.760 --> 00:43:12.950
industry and just has will allow for the
00:43:12.960 --> 00:43:15.829
amplification of the impact um to be
00:43:15.839 --> 00:43:19.270
felt. And so um we're really um we feel
00:43:19.280 --> 00:43:21.670
really honored to to get to bring you
00:43:21.680 --> 00:43:23.750
over to this side to get to work
00:43:23.760 --> 00:43:25.349
>> actually you know I'm glad that I got
00:43:25.359 --> 00:43:27.030
this opportunity to be honest you know
00:43:27.040 --> 00:43:29.190
it's like I said I wanted to be stayed
00:43:29.200 --> 00:43:31.030
in the water sector I looked at you know
00:43:31.040 --> 00:43:34.069
maybe going on the on advocacy side
00:43:34.079 --> 00:43:35.910
maybe looking at joining like
00:43:35.920 --> 00:43:39.349
organization like or AWA or any of this
00:43:39.359 --> 00:43:42.150
you know advocacy or do something
00:43:42.160 --> 00:43:43.990
>> on on the different side and this kind
00:43:44.000 --> 00:43:47.589
of felt to me was a good place where I
00:43:47.599 --> 00:43:50.550
can still I like to be involved in
00:43:50.560 --> 00:43:52.630
thinking outside the box and you know
00:43:52.640 --> 00:43:54.790
LCRI is a great example where I was
00:43:54.800 --> 00:43:57.430
thinking outside the box and my my state
00:43:57.440 --> 00:43:59.349
is in much better shape
00:43:59.359 --> 00:44:02.550
>> than many other states you know uh you
00:44:02.560 --> 00:44:04.230
know at this point at the juncture and
00:44:04.240 --> 00:44:06.630
we have good tools in place so I wanted
00:44:06.640 --> 00:44:08.309
to make sure that we continue to develop
00:44:08.319 --> 00:44:11.109
those tools to make states lives easy
00:44:11.119 --> 00:44:13.430
make water systems life easy and you
00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:16.150
know and not duplicate data. We're
00:44:16.160 --> 00:44:18.069
taking the same data and putting in
00:44:18.079 --> 00:44:19.510
three different spreadsheet in three
00:44:19.520 --> 00:44:21.190
different places. That's not the way to
00:44:21.200 --> 00:44:21.829
do it. Yeah,
00:44:21.839 --> 00:44:24.069
>> that served a purpose 20 years back, but
00:44:24.079 --> 00:44:26.470
I think the time for us is to change and
00:44:26.480 --> 00:44:28.230
look at a new par.
00:44:28.240 --> 00:44:30.309
>> Yeah, couldn't agree more. Well, thank
00:44:30.319 --> 00:44:32.230
you so much for joining me on this
00:44:32.240 --> 00:44:34.630
podcast and um yeah, it was a pleasure
00:44:34.640 --> 00:44:37.670
having you today. Um yeah, and thank you
00:44:37.680 --> 00:44:40.870
to everyone who who listens in. Um, I
00:44:40.880 --> 00:44:43.430
love hearing from you and um and I'm
00:44:43.440 --> 00:44:46.309
excited for uh the next round of guests
00:44:46.319 --> 00:44:48.309
that we have lined up and um yeah,
00:44:48.319 --> 00:44:49.430
again, thank you Manny.
00:44:49.440 --> 00:44:51.030
>> No, thank you. This was great. Like I
00:44:51.040 --> 00:44:52.550
said, that was Thank you for the
00:44:52.560 --> 00:44:54.630
opportunity and was really great to get,
00:44:54.640 --> 00:44:55.990
you know, my perspective from both
00:44:56.000 --> 00:44:57.910
sides, from the state side and the 120
00:44:57.920 --> 00:44:58.950
water side. Again,
00:44:58.960 --> 00:44:59.270
>> yeah,
00:44:59.280 --> 00:45:01.270
>> I said earlier, you know, my my state
00:45:01.280 --> 00:45:03.670
regulators that were co-artners with me,
00:45:03.680 --> 00:45:06.069
they know I speak my mind. I've got
00:45:06.079 --> 00:45:07.670
their interest at heart and the water
00:45:07.680 --> 00:45:09.430
systems interest at heart. We're all on
00:45:09.440 --> 00:45:10.630
the same mission
00:45:10.640 --> 00:45:14.550
>> to make life better for our sector.
00:45:14.560 --> 00:45:18.960
>> I love it. Awesome. Thank you so much.