WEBVTT
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Today's guest has designed hundreds of hospitality venues, built a design studio behind some of the country's most iconic bars and restaurants.
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Started to get pretty pissed off with designers because they're designing these beautiful spaces, but they would cost crazy amounts of money.
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Like doing a two million dollar spot that does 20 grand a week in sales is just financial.
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Product is number one.
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Product and experience.
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We've all seen shitty looking places that are packed because the food's just fucking amazing.
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And we've all seen phenomenal fit-outs that are empty.
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They're sickeningly empty.
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I can walk into a space and know exactly what's right and what's wrong with it.
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I can just count them off.
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Something's not right.
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Yep.
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I know it's doesn't make any sense at all.
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Just something feels off.
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You own your own spots.
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Yes, I've owned four of my own cafes before I turned to design.
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So I realized I was more of a project person.
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I didn't really love operating the cafes.
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I loved opening them and designing them myself.
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And so I went off into design.
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And once I got into that world, I started to get pretty pissed off with designers because they're designing these beautiful spaces, but they would cost crazy amounts of money.
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Like doing a$2 million spot that does$20,000 a week in sales is just financial suicide.
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Because it's not like you gotta you gotta get your return on your investment back.
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You can set up the design to be an incredible space to feel in, but then doesn't have a ridiculous build cost that you know takes you 15 years to pay off, which will never happen because the thing needs to be renovated in six years anyway.
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Just for context here as to why people should be listened to you, how many designs have you been through?
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Designed builds, over 500.
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Like I've just done so, so many of them now across the years, across restaurants, cafes, bars, quick service, you know, fine dining, the cheapest stuff, sushis, kebab, takeaways, burgers, pizzas, whatever.
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You've done it.
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It's it's all the same stuff, regardless of where it's from.
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It's you know, it's creating something that your target market wants and that is set up for the right amount of money, and it's set up in a way that will make money.
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Winning a design award doesn't mean shit, in my in my opinion.
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I think what is more important is that something is comfortable, enjoyable to be in, has great lighting that's comfortable to be in, great music, and then you're layering on the other stuff on top of that to further improve the experience of the space that people are in.
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And also to generate their attention, get their attention.
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So, you know, that's definitely something I look at from a holistic big picture point of view.
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How do we get their attention first off from a street presence point of view, and then how do we get them to enjoy the experience when they're in there?
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So if you're watching right now and you're taking notes, note one is like let's get really clear on your vision, your purpose, your mission, your values.
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Like let's get really clear on that, and then let's throw that into Claudel Chat GPT.
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If you haven't already done it and get clear on what sort of physical connections will meld you with that, yep, yep.
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And then go into Pinterest and then just doom scroll for a little while.
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Totally.
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And and like there's joy and fun in that as well.
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Like, you know, like choosing things you like, because like what I run people through on my program is exactly that.
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So we've got GPTs set up to help you go through that uh thinking process and then creating search terms for for Pinterest, but yeah, then digging through Pinterest and finding things you like, and then you know, putting them aside, creating a board, then editing it out, and then landing on a you know concise set of 12 to 16 images that read well together and have a thread between them.
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I love this.
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Okay, so street presence the first stop.
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Yeah.
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Can I ask a question?
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And it's a little bit sidetracked, but I'd rarely allow to get sidetracked, so I'm gonna get sidetracked today.
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What happens, you know how you get these joints that are like this orange door, or they're like you go into this fire escape door, and then it's like an experience in itself, yeah.
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These hidden, hidden places with no street presence versus um versus obviously, you know, on a corner needing street presence to get to get in.
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How do you manage the difference between those two?
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I mean, those ones that win at that stuff are the best.
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Yes.
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Like their product, their service, fucking everything is awesome.
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Yeah.
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And so you want to go there.
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Like you serve.
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It's destination.
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It's destination.
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But those people are the two percent, the one percent, right?
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Yeah.
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That I mean, and I'll say this as well, despite being in the design world, I think product is number one.
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Yeah, for sure.
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Like product's uh product and experience, right?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
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So like we've all seen shitty looking places that are packed because the food's just fucking amazing.
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Yeah, and we've all seen phenomenal fit outs that are empty, yeah, sickeningly empty.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And I've had having open spaces that didn't work myself.
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One of them didn't work, I put all my money into it, and it took me, you know, over a year to actually make it work.
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That feeling of it not working is sickening.
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There was two businesses right beside each other, one had this amazing fit-out, and one was just like a dingy bar.
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The bar was packed and pumping, and this amazing fit-out, and then you could just see people standing around almost like just kicking dust.
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And I was like, just breaks my heart when I see it.
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Like, I feel so I almost get their emotions.
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I think, fuck.
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Yeah.
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So tough.
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It's so real, right?
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Yeah.
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You know, if it's not some cash from some, you know, you know, if it's someone's not inherited, you know, a hundred million dollars and spent a million on the bar and they don't care.
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But like if it's someone's entire life savings that they put into something, it's fuck it's horrid.
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Now we've got our mission, our vision, what we want to do.
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We've got our visual representation of that.
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We get clear on our street presence on the way is the street do you try and get the street presence to trigger an emotion for someone?
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It's more about just being visual in my mind.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Probably, you know, with certain things.
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Um, and that's connected to the brand and the brand identity.
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It's great if you can have your brand set up before you do the interior design stuff because it's nice to your digital presence, your physical presence, all to read together.
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But I'm just very much on making it visually fucking obvious that you're there and you are open and what you do.
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Like, you know, from I remember my fourth cafe, signed the lease, opened it, and realized shit, the pendants that I chose cover the entire bulb and the glass, so it looks like I'm closed even when I'm open.
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And so having that illumination, you know, making sure there is light on so that just so people think it's open.
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You talk about this, I talk about it, you know, you talk about it from an ops point of view, I talk about from a design point of view.
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It's all those one percenters to just add up to give people more reasons to come to you.
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So brand presence on the outside, lighting's super important.
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Let's walk in the door.
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Big thing for me, I like to, if it's possible, get something physical relatively close to the door so people can be greeted quickly.
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Whether it's a bar, you know, obviously the Matre D is an obvious one, a kitchen, something that's sort of start, you know, within five seconds, preferably, maybe 30 seconds, maybe 10, you can get a high, you can get a wave.
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There's a a physical staff member close to the door so you can feel welcome the moment you walk in the door.
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Dude, you know what?
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I love that.
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We had Cooper on a little while ago.
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He's got like a spokehouse in the US.
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They've got one person, one whole person whose only job, because obviously they've got a lineup out the door.
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Yeah.
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Their only job is a customer experience person, and all they do is they walk along, they give they say hello to people, they give people free beer.
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So if you're in the lineup, someone's still greeting you within a certain amount of time, so you don't feel alone.
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Totally.
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Yeah.
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And it sucks to walk into a space, they're busy, they're ignoring you, like, man, fuck you.
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You know what's even worse when you gotta you go through a door and then you gotta weirdly walk through all these tables.
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Yeah.
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And before you find someone, just sit it's strange.
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It's weird.
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Yeah.
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Um, you know, it's just a basic fundamental of hospitality, right?
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So if you can physically put that into your layout, yeah.
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And you know, if you're a smaller spot, like you know, not you know, that spot you were talking about is obviously big, it's busy, they got the the turnover and to justify the additional person.
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But if you're a cafe or a smaller restaurant or whatever, if you've got someone that has to be making coffee or whatever, positioned close to that doorway, they can say a hello whilst doing something else.
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Where you've got kind of two doorways, front doorway, back doorway, and a long site.
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Yep.
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And you've got people entering from each side.
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Yeah.
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And someone's focus when they first started out, they're focused to tilling everything out the front door, but people also also come from the other way.
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What would you recommend there?
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That's a challenge.
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Like you kind of want to control entering and try to get everyone to come through the one spot.
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You know, if you can't, if for somehow naturally there's people over there and people over there, and you've got to try and get them in the middle, making it very obvious where to go.
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Yeah.
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It's basically like whether it's yeah, again, illuminated signage, you know, wait here or order here in a physical way so there's not walls or other barriers moving people away from where they need to go.
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We're all overworked, we're all tired, we're all stressed out.
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We just want easy shit.
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So, like, if you can make it easy for someone when they walk in to be greeted and to know what to do.
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You're sitting around in your office or whatever, and you want to go out and get some food, you're gonna go to the easy place that's yum and cool.
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Yeah, 100%.
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Click the link in the bio, book a call with one of my team.
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Today's guest has designed hundreds of hospitality venues, built a design studio behind some of the country's most iconic bars and restaurants.
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Started to get pretty pissed off with designers because they're designing these beautiful spaces, but they would cost crazy amounts of money.
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Like doing a two million dollar spot that does 20 grand a week in sales is just financial.
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Product is number one.
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Product and experience.
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We've all seen shitty looking places that are packed because the food's just fucking amazing.
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And we've all seen phenomenal fit-outs that are empty.
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They're sickeningly empty.
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I can walk into a space and know exactly what's right and what's wrong with it.
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I can just count them off.
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Something's not right.
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Yep.
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I know it's doesn't make any sense at all.
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Just something feels off.
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You own your own spots.
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Yes, I've owned four of my own cafes before I turned to design.
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So I realized I was more of a project person.
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I didn't really love operating the cafes.
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I loved opening them and designing them myself.
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And so I went off into design.
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And once I got into that world, I started to get pretty pissed off with designers because they're designing these beautiful spaces, but they would cost crazy amounts of money.
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Like doing a$2 million spot that does$20,000 a week in sales is just financial suicide.
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Because it's not like you gotta you gotta get your return on your investment back.
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You can set up the design to be an incredible space to feel in, but then doesn't have a ridiculous build cost that you know takes you 15 years to pay off, which will never happen because the thing needs to be renovated in six years anyway.
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Just for context here as to why people should be listened to you, how many designs have you been through?
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Designed builds, over 500.
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Like I've just done so, so many of them now across the years, across restaurants, cafes, bars, quick service, you know, fine dining, the cheapest stuff, sushis, kebab, takeaways, burgers, pizzas, whatever.
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You've done it.
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It's it's all the same stuff, regardless of where it's from.
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It's you know, it's creating something that your target market wants and that is set up for the right amount of money, and it's set up in a way that will make money.
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Winning a design award doesn't mean shit, in my in my opinion.
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I think what is more important is that something is comfortable, enjoyable to be in, has great lighting that's comfortable to be in, great music, and then you're layering on the other stuff on top of that to further improve the experience of the space that people are in.
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And also to generate their attention, get their attention.
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So, you know, that's definitely something I look at from a holistic big picture point of view.
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How do we get their attention first off from a street presence point of view, and then how do we get them to enjoy the experience when they're in there?
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So if you're watching right now and you're taking notes, note one is like let's get really clear on your vision, your purpose, your mission, your values.
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Like let's get really clear on that, and then let's throw that into Claudel Chat GPT.
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If you haven't already done it and get clear on what sort of physical connections will meld you with that, yep, yep.
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And then go into Pinterest and then just doom scroll for a little while.
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Totally.
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And and like there's joy and fun in that as well.
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Like, you know, like choosing things you like, because like what I run people through on my program is exactly that.
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So we've got GPTs set up to help you go through that uh thinking process and then creating search terms for for Pinterest, but yeah, then digging through Pinterest and finding things you like, and then you know, putting them aside, creating a board, then editing it out, and then landing on a you know concise set of 12 to 16 images that read well together and have a thread between them.
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I love this.
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Okay, so street presence the first stop.
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Yeah.
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Can I ask a question?
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And it's a little bit sidetracked, but I'd rarely allow to get sidetracked, so I'm gonna get sidetracked today.
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What happens, you know how you get these joints that are like this orange door, or they're like you go into this fire escape door, and then it's like an experience in itself, yeah.
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These hidden, hidden places with no street presence versus um versus obviously, you know, on a corner needing street presence to get to get in.
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How do you manage the difference between those two?
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I mean, those ones that win at that stuff are the best.
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Yes.
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Like their product, their service, fucking everything is awesome.
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Yeah.
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And so you want to go there.
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Like you serve.
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It's destination.
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It's destination.
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But those people are the two percent, the one percent, right?
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Yeah.
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That I mean, and I'll say this as well, despite being in the design world, I think product is number one.
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Yeah, for sure.
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Like product's uh product and experience, right?
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
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So like we've all seen shitty looking places that are packed because the food's just fucking amazing.
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Yeah, and we've all seen phenomenal fit outs that are empty, yeah, sickeningly empty.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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And I've had having open spaces that didn't work myself.
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One of them didn't work, I put all my money into it, and it took me, you know, over a year to actually make it work.
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That feeling of it not working is sickening.
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There was two businesses right beside each other, one had this amazing fit-out, and one was just like a dingy bar.
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The bar was packed and pumping, and this amazing fit-out, and then you could just see people standing around almost like just kicking dust.
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And I was like, just breaks my heart when I see it.
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Like, I feel so I almost get their emotions.
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I think, fuck.
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Yeah.
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So tough.
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It's so real, right?
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Yeah.
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You know, if it's not some cash from some, you know, you know, if it's someone's not inherited, you know, a hundred million dollars and spent a million on the bar and they don't care.
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But like if it's someone's entire life savings that they put into something, it's fuck it's horrid.
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Now we've got our mission, our vision, what we want to do.
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We've got our visual representation of that.
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We get clear on our street presence on the way is the street do you try and get the street presence to trigger an emotion for someone?
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It's more about just being visual in my mind.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Probably, you know, with certain things.
00:05:34.079 --> 00:05:37.839
Um, and that's connected to the brand and the brand identity.
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It's great if you can have your brand set up before you do the interior design stuff because it's nice to your digital presence, your physical presence, all to read together.
00:05:46.480 --> 00:05:52.720
But I'm just very much on making it visually fucking obvious that you're there and you are open and what you do.
00:05:52.800 --> 00:06:04.639
Like, you know, from I remember my fourth cafe, signed the lease, opened it, and realized shit, the pendants that I chose cover the entire bulb and the glass, so it looks like I'm closed even when I'm open.
00:06:04.800 --> 00:06:11.040
And so having that illumination, you know, making sure there is light on so that just so people think it's open.
00:06:11.279 --> 00:06:15.839
You talk about this, I talk about it, you know, you talk about it from an ops point of view, I talk about from a design point of view.
00:06:15.920 --> 00:06:20.319
It's all those one percenters to just add up to give people more reasons to come to you.
00:06:20.560 --> 00:06:23.360
So brand presence on the outside, lighting's super important.
00:06:23.680 --> 00:06:24.480
Let's walk in the door.
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Big thing for me, I like to, if it's possible, get something physical relatively close to the door so people can be greeted quickly.
00:06:32.000 --> 00:06:42.399
Whether it's a bar, you know, obviously the Matre D is an obvious one, a kitchen, something that's sort of start, you know, within five seconds, preferably, maybe 30 seconds, maybe 10, you can get a high, you can get a wave.
00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:47.279
There's a a physical staff member close to the door so you can feel welcome the moment you walk in the door.
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Dude, you know what?
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I love that.
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We had Cooper on a little while ago.
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He's got like a spokehouse in the US.
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They've got one person, one whole person whose only job, because obviously they've got a lineup out the door.
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Yeah.
00:06:59.120 --> 00:07:05.839
Their only job is a customer experience person, and all they do is they walk along, they give they say hello to people, they give people free beer.
00:07:06.160 --> 00:07:11.360
So if you're in the lineup, someone's still greeting you within a certain amount of time, so you don't feel alone.
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Totally.
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Yeah.
00:07:12.399 --> 00:07:16.240
And it sucks to walk into a space, they're busy, they're ignoring you, like, man, fuck you.
00:07:16.399 --> 00:07:22.639
You know what's even worse when you gotta you go through a door and then you gotta weirdly walk through all these tables.
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Yeah.
00:07:23.439 --> 00:07:26.160
And before you find someone, just sit it's strange.
00:07:26.319 --> 00:07:26.959
It's weird.
00:07:27.040 --> 00:07:27.360
Yeah.
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Um, you know, it's just a basic fundamental of hospitality, right?
00:07:31.279 --> 00:07:34.879
So if you can physically put that into your layout, yeah.
00:07:35.040 --> 00:07:43.360
And you know, if you're a smaller spot, like you know, not you know, that spot you were talking about is obviously big, it's busy, they got the the turnover and to justify the additional person.
00:07:43.439 --> 00:07:53.040
But if you're a cafe or a smaller restaurant or whatever, if you've got someone that has to be making coffee or whatever, positioned close to that doorway, they can say a hello whilst doing something else.
00:07:53.279 --> 00:07:56.720
Where you've got kind of two doorways, front doorway, back doorway, and a long site.
00:07:56.879 --> 00:07:57.040
Yep.
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And you've got people entering from each side.
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Yeah.
00:07:59.279 --> 00:08:04.800
And someone's focus when they first started out, they're focused to tilling everything out the front door, but people also also come from the other way.
00:08:04.879 --> 00:08:05.519
What would you recommend there?
00:08:05.839 --> 00:08:06.319
That's a challenge.
00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:10.319
Like you kind of want to control entering and try to get everyone to come through the one spot.
00:08:10.560 --> 00:08:18.639
You know, if you can't, if for somehow naturally there's people over there and people over there, and you've got to try and get them in the middle, making it very obvious where to go.
00:08:18.879 --> 00:08:19.120
Yeah.
00:08:19.600 --> 00:08:30.720
It's basically like whether it's yeah, again, illuminated signage, you know, wait here or order here in a physical way so there's not walls or other barriers moving people away from where they need to go.
00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:33.360
We're all overworked, we're all tired, we're all stressed out.
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We just want easy shit.
00:08:34.879 --> 00:08:39.279
So, like, if you can make it easy for someone when they walk in to be greeted and to know what to do.
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You're sitting around in your office or whatever, and you want to go out and get some food, you're gonna go to the easy place that's yum and cool.
00:08:46.559 --> 00:08:46.960
Yeah, 100%.
00:08:47.279 --> 00:08:49.919
Click the link in the bio, book a call with one of my team.
