Lowen Behold: NBA Draft Lottery Reactions (Featuring WizardsMuse)

Gibson Lowenberg: Hello and welcome back to another episode of the Lo and Behold podcast. am joined today by Ethan Weinstein, AKA Wizards Muse.
WizardsMuse: Yo, what's ⁓ up Gibson?
Gibson Lowenberg: and ⁓ today we're going to be covering the draft lottery and the immediate reactions to that as well as probably the state of the wizards we're both wizards fans i think that's obvious from your social media accounts but anyway so i'll go over the draft lottery results and then we can talk about that from there ⁓ obviously wizards get first overall pick jazz gets second overall pick but after that the memphis grizzlies got third bulls get fourth
WizardsMuse: Yeah.
Gibson Lowenberg: Clippers get fifth, which is the Pacers pick. The Nets get the sixth pick. Kings get the seventh pick. Hawks get eighth. Mavericks get ninth. Bucks get 10th. Warriors get 11th. Thunder get 12th. Heat get 13th. And the Charlotte Hornets are picking 14th. ⁓ What are your immediate reactions to that outside of, obviously we're getting AJ DeVanza.
WizardsMuse: I think the Nets are one of the biggest losers to be honest just because they don't have their pick next year and I don't know how they're gonna get better. It's like MPJs, they're a star. They have the sixth pick. So I mean you're kind of depending on a guy like McHale Brown Jr. or Kingston Fleming's Keaton Wagler to take your team. What's even the goal? Like the playoffs? That's not realistic. So you're hoping you hit the 12th seed and you still give the pick away. So it's not really an outline. I guess you're just hoping you can find a guy. But is anyone on the roster? Like that guy, I don't think you're thinking like Jaeger Demen is.
Gibson Lowenberg: I do like Igor Demin. I think he has potential to be like Ben Simmons but give away a little bit of that athleticism, replace it with a lot of that athleticism and replace it with a jump shot. But the problem is they're gonna have to play him at the small forward because due to the fact that this is such a guard heavy draft and I imagine they don't reach for Nate Aument at sixth. They're forced to pick... Yeah.
WizardsMuse: ⁓ yeah. They were in a bunch of guards last year too, like almost all of their drafts was guards.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, they picked four guards in the first round last year, knowing that this was a guard heavy draft. And then now they're upset that they're going to have to pick another guard.
WizardsMuse: Yeah. Yes, I guess you just pray like I don't even know what like that upside for Yeager's like he'll be a cool player I think it'll be a rotational player, but you're not looking at like a star Nobody else on the team has star potential. So you're the nets where do you even go?
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, I think he I really like him at that point guard position but the issue is they're gonna have to play him at the small forward and he's just gonna be an app like if he plays the three he's gonna end up just being an average three at the NBA level and so I think ultimately they're going to fumble the development of Yeager and then just whoever they draft this year it's probably gonna be a cuff if we're gonna be real it's I
WizardsMuse: I don't think that's scary.
Gibson Lowenberg: I don't see it working out for them. think Brooklyn really got screwed.
WizardsMuse: Yeah, I I don't think it'll work out, but at least a cup is like a shot. Like if you are a first star and you're not in the top four, you have the offensive potential of a cuff where you're like, maybe he can go into something.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The upside is any coach Cal guard just magically turns out. So that's that's a plus for them outside of them. I think the biggest losers probably the the Kings falling to seventh when they have nothing. They have less than the Nets and and yeah they're terrible. I I
WizardsMuse: They weren't even taking.
Gibson Lowenberg: We're Wizards fans, we've never been this level of hopeless as the Kings are. And I say that with like all the love in the world, they just traded all their youth and got nothing. And now it's like.
WizardsMuse: Yeah, I mean, I guess Raynaud and Don Cardwell, guess, are like, they're cool. You know, maybe they become players.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, they're, they're, they can be fun. They can be fun role players. They got Keegan Murray, who's regressed every year of his career.
WizardsMuse: He's like not even that good anymore. Like he can't shoot. He was like a 42 % shooter his rookie year.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, no. I'm pretty sure they gave him like a max rookie extension too.
WizardsMuse: Oh yeah, no, he's getting, it's at least like 20, 25 mil.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, I won't I won't call the Pacers losers though because they they traded that pick knowing that they were gonna have a 50 % chance of losing that pick so like That's kind their own. That's kind of their own fault. Also, they just made the finals. So who cares?
WizardsMuse: Yeah. I actually didn't hate the statement made by Kevin Prichard. I know there was some backlash, but I want transparency out of my GM. If my GM made a mistake, if Will Dawkins made a mistake like that and he released a statement being like, I'm sorry, we took the risk and it didn't work out, I'd be like, I like that transparency. I don't get why people are hating on
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah, bye. Yeah. I think they're just mad about the pick, losing the pick. Cause like that's, that's he was, he was fully open. Like, yeah, we, we took a 50 % chance and we lost like our bad shouldn't have done that. Hindsight's 2020.
WizardsMuse: understand. Yeah. And if you get that, you know, you get a top four pick and Zubot. Like I understand the point of trying to make that trade.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, like that was a really good trade had they kept the pick. Like that, there's a 50 % chance it was a fantastic trade, 50 % chance it was a horrible trade and they just lost the coin flip. Like, oh well. But anyway, moving on to what I think you really wanna talk about, AJ Davanza, Darren Peterson, who would you pick at number one overall?
WizardsMuse: Yeah. Yeah, I'm lucky, you know. I'm going to be honest, if you ask me this a couple hours from now, my mind's going to change. I've really been flipping on it. think, course, I'd probably lean AJ just because those measurables yesterday were insane. 6'10", pretty much over 7 foot wingspan.
Gibson Lowenberg: Even today, even like, even today, like you can argue he's had the second best draft stock boost out of anybody in the draft outside of, I'm forgetting his name, Ademara probably had the biggest draft boost so far, but I think AJ is right behind him.
WizardsMuse: ⁓ yeah. Yeah, and you could play that at the two or the three. And when you look at what Dawkins and Winger have talked about, they're like, positional size. want, that's their thing. Positional size. Almost everyone we drafted, Bilal's been big. Kishan's been big. Sarr has been big for a four. Bub even lost one. Yeah. Trey at six, six isn't bad for a two. So AJ at six, 10 inch shoes at a two or three. Like that's something that you're really going to want. I think they're probably going to lean him, but.
Gibson Lowenberg: Hell, yeah, bub65 for a point card, that's fantastic.
WizardsMuse: You get a almost six six and shoes guard with a six 10 wingspan. That's also something for success to look at Darren Peterson. I mean, you look at like Kate or Luca, those are good pin guys that are big and because of their size, they've been solid. If Darren can use his size, I think a bit better to be honest, I could use the room. That's something that Dawkins is going to be intrigued by. But yeah, I lean age. I think it would just make more sense for the fit of the team.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah, I think AJ Dybantsa is 1000 % the first overall pick. ⁓ Like you said, six foot 10 inches. got that seven foot wingspan. He's 217 pounds as well. ⁓ then on top of that, his ⁓ pro lane time came in at 11 seconds, which is above average for the entire NBA. ⁓ that's really good. ⁓ And ⁓ he has a 42 inch vertical, ⁓ max and 33 ⁓ and half inch standing vert. Like that's, ⁓
WizardsMuse: Height's in the combine
Gibson Lowenberg: That's insane for somebody his size to be that freakishly athletic. That's insane. And that's not even taking into account his speed coming down the floor. That's mostly side to side movement and backwards movement in that pro lane. So that's ridiculous. That's insane agility. He projects to be an elite defender at the NBA level. Obviously we didn't see that at college. So like, think he has the ability... Sorry, what was that? Yeah.
WizardsMuse: think it'll be like above average you know I don't know if you'll ever be elite but if you can get an above average or passable defender that's okay.
Gibson Lowenberg: He definitely has the size, strength, speed, athleticism, and the quickness to be whatever level of defender that the Wizards force him to be. Because I think a lot of why he didn't show up that at the college level is he hasn't quite figured it out on the defensive end. think his timing was a little bit off and you see that with his blocks numbers. Then on top of that, he was asked to carry a Herculean load on offense. I tweeted that out earlier. I used that exact same phrase too. ⁓ But he was like the load he was asked to carry on offense was just so ridiculous. He was definitely north of like 43 % usage rate. I don't have the exact numbers off the top of my head because I don't think ⁓ basketball reference includes the usage rate and college players. But he was, the ball went through him every single possession for BYU. So I'm not surprised. They kind of took a step back defensively. ⁓
WizardsMuse: Yeah.
Gibson Lowenberg: But I think at the NBA level where he's got other guys who can create, especially like Keyshawn George, Trey Young, Anthony Davis, Alex Saar, Trey Johnson, Bob Carrington to a certain extent. They'll take the load off of him on the offensive end to the point where I think he'll look eight million times better defensively as a rookie than he did.
WizardsMuse: Thank you.
Gibson Lowenberg: at college, even though he's against significantly better competition.
WizardsMuse: Yeah, I agree, especially once Richie Saunders went down, it was kind of all defense or like all offense he had to do. But I do think, I don't think there's many two way, like true two way elite stars in the league. Like when you're looking at, he's good on defense, aside from defensive playmaking, he's not elite. Like you don't try and have him on your best player. Same with Ant.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah.
WizardsMuse: And those are like labeled two way guys. If we project AJ to Bonsa to be like that guy that carries our offense when he's in his prime, I would drink 27, 28, probably more to be honest. If, if we get the outcome that we want where he's a 30 point per game score on good efficiency, I don't know if we'll be asking him to do that most offensively, but I do completely agree with you. think he has to, he does have the tools to be great, especially, mean, the measurables, the everything about him, like how he moves. He doesn't move normally for 6-10 and shoots. Yeah, no, it doesn't feel like he like actually runs like he just moves across the court. But I do think that he'll be he'll be a very good defender on our team considering if this young court does stay we'll have Sar will have Kishan will have Bala who are all three very good defenders. So the Bonsa as third fourth defender or best defender on the team that's going to be like a big plus like that is very good.
Gibson Lowenberg: No, he glides almost. It's ridiculous. Yeah.
WizardsMuse: even if he's not a star defender, we're going to be able to also take the defensive load off of
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, and that's not even mentioning Justin Champagney or Jameer Watkins who are both fantastic defensively in their own right.
WizardsMuse: Especially on parameter defense. I think they're gonna be even more valuable next year, especially champagne He's a player that like you want on a winning team And even though we haven't been able to show him off like next year when we're actually trying to win and compete champagne is gonna be amazing
Gibson Lowenberg: He's one of those players where like you have him on a losing team and you're like, what's this guy even do? And then you see him on a winning team and you're like, ⁓ my God, how is this guy not like the best player? How is he not an All-Star? Like, reminds me a lot of like...
WizardsMuse: ⁓ yeah. This is so crazy.
Gibson Lowenberg: Obviously reminds me a lot of his brother where he does all the small things extremely well for the Spurs or like not quite Lou Dort. like lose a little bit of defense out a little bit of shooting ability with Dort, but like that type of player where he just kind of fills in and does everything that a team could want.
WizardsMuse: Yeah, I mean, you just want players to do the little stuff and like he's the best at he's one of the best at that to be honest, like in the East, especially, I mean, rebounding to Saur improved a lot. He's still not the best rebounder in the league, you know, so you have champaign on the offensive glass. He's like actually an elite rebounder considering his size. Like I remember I was talking to someone on Twitter about that. Like he's one of the best in the league considering his size. I I think that just helps so much in a playoff setting, you know.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, he's like six foot six. He's six foot six and gets whatever rebound he wants. It's, it's insane.
WizardsMuse: I don't know how that's real and he can shoot to an extent
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, he's a solid shooter. I'm not sure. I think he shot what 35, 36 % on the season.
WizardsMuse: Yeah, mean, I think Julian's better as a shooter, like, if you, if Justin's taking a three, like you're fine with it,
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Then he had, think he had the best dunk of the season for per dunk rating too, which is insane. Yeah. Yeah. It's weird. They'll, they'll, he'll pull up from three and he'll have like a super quiet game and then have like the best dunk you've ever seen in your life. It's, beautiful. It's an, it's amazing.
WizardsMuse: Yeah, I'm pretty sure it was. Yeah, he gets posters. So does Jameer. I hope both of are in the rotation next year, even if it's like for walk-ins and spurts, because I don't know if you'll be permanently in it.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, I don't know if Watkins is gonna break that rotation. We got seven guys that are trying to fight for the two and three minutes. That's not even including Bob Carrington, who's a shooting guard, or Justin Champagney, who I think will be playing a lot of minutes at the four this year. That's not including either one of them. So I don't, or Cam Whitmore even, because that's based on the assumption that Whitmore probably gets waved going ahead of the season. Like that's...
WizardsMuse: Yeah. We have Watkins over him in the rotation. I don't think they will, but I think Watkins would help more to winning.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, I don't think Whitmore plays for the Wizards next season at all. I think he's done. But... We can...
WizardsMuse: Yeah. I wonder if he, like as a conversation, I wonder if he's in the league, like how much he's in the league next year.
Gibson Lowenberg: I could see it's like a like a team early in a rebuild or like Try to find another big guy a big name like taking a flyer on him Yeah, like if they're able to find a suitor for MPJ But we can loop back around to that. I got one I got another question with the draft before we move on to the Wizards solely with with that first overall pick Would you move back? What do you trade down?
WizardsMuse: I could see the nuts going for him. No, unless you're fully convinced Darren is the best player and that the Jazz are gonna take AJ I wouldn't and I don't think it's I Really don't even think the gap is that big to say one of them is like definitively better to be honest at least like leagues better but I Don't think you do is okay. Some of these trade rumors I'm seeing suck too. It'll be like the sixth pick and we trade like AD and Trey and the first pick away Like that doesn't even make sense and we'll get lower. Like that was one of the exact trades I saw. But no, the only way I would trade down is if you go to the jazz and you definitively think that Darren Peterson is the best player. And I don't think that's what Dawkins and Wenger thinks. I really want to trade down.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, I've seen the Jazz are interested and I've seen the Nets are the those are the two teams that are like Really in on it because they kind of need it. Yeah, then that's absolutely what it but the Nets are involved in every trade somehow and walk away with nothing all the time. So it's like
WizardsMuse: I'm sure the next one. I'm sure they really are interested in the first pick. I just don't think they'll get it, you know?
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, the yeah, my only question would be like, what would it take for them to even consider a trade? Like, I know I jokingly told somebody that I want to key on Te George and the second overall pick as and the future first round pick as like a starting price. And I did not get a response to that one, by the way. But like, like to me, like I would want like. Ridiculous value because aj day bansa has such a high ceiling It's like I don't know what it would take To be like, sure. We'll trade this pick especially to the nets like what what do the nets have? like
WizardsMuse: No, in the net. The only team that could do it realistically is the Jazz, I think.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, maybe the I could see the grizzlies putting together an offer but to me like I would want Edie I would want Edie in that as well like I would want Edie and I would want
WizardsMuse: ⁓ yeah, I want Edie Howard and like, really like picks too because the third pick is such a drop.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah Yeah, because I do I do really like Cameron Boozer I think Cameron Boozer is incredibly underrated and I think a lot of people are overthinking him because Realistically, he's bigger stronger faster than Al Horford and I think he's I think he comes in at the same ⁓ Same size as Kevin Love but it's faster So it's like those are two guys who have had all-star level success in the NBA like I think Kim Boozer will be fine, but
WizardsMuse: I think Boozer is the highest floor out of anyone, to be honest. Like I don't see a world where he's not a top 30 player.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, absolutely and also like Yeah, and I think he has I think he has potential to be really interesting I think I think his ceiling is around like Cavs Kevin love but like With better like a little bit faster a little bit stronger like
WizardsMuse: more creation to like self-creation.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, yeah, although I think Cavs Kevin Love definitely gave up a lot to LeBron and Kyrie. I think he definitely took, I think he had the ability to create for his own, especially since he did it in Minnesota. He just took a massive step back, but like that's still an all-star caliber, that's still an all-star caliber player. ⁓ And also like the fit with him on Washington is the cleanest of anybody in the draft because he's got the side, he's got
WizardsMuse: ⁓ definitely.
Gibson Lowenberg: His immediate strength is rebounding and defense That fits almost perfectly next and he can space the floor. He can create he's quick enough to take advantage of slower defenders That that fits next to SAR extremely cleanly I don't I don't know about the rest of the roster but his fit next to SAR and Qishan is Obvious and really clear to me and those are the two players that really matter long term so like I like it, but also at the same time, like I don't know if Memphis is interested in moving up. I don't know if Dawkins is interested in moving back. I think the positional size, like you mentioned earlier, just overwhelmingly is like his big thing and Dibanz is far and away the best prospect for that.
WizardsMuse: think if you also get the first pick, especially for a team like the Wizards, like this is a selling point to fans. You know, we've been like a joke around the league around many fans, even like if you're around the area, if you're a Wizards fan, not many people from here are Wizards fans. Like they will like laugh at you for being a Wizards fan. So this is a chance now, especially you got Tray and AD, Sarn, Kishan are like legit players and you have guys on the bench, Will Riley, especially Tray, Balal who could turn into pretty solid guys.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah.
WizardsMuse: You're looking like this is a new era of the Wizards This is a time where it's like you don't have to be embarrassed to be a Wizards fan like you can actually be proud and we're supposed to be good Which it's still crazy to me. Like I was a child the last time we were actually good, but Like and you know the first pick to build around that and you're trying to get fans from the area back I don't think you move down to be honest Even not just from a team building perspective, but from like a fan perspective an error defining perspective. This is the first pick. This is who you're going to build around. This is going to be the face of your franchise. And you ride or die with this guy. And I think if you trade down a two or three, it kind of changes that whole motive, especially if you trade down to three. Because I don't think fan base, even though Kam Buzer is great, I don't think the fan base gets behind him like they do AJ or even like they do Darren.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah, it's I'm not gonna I'm not gonna compare the two but you could I could definitely see them like marketing AJ Daivans in a similar way to like the way they marketed John Wall back in the day like where John Wall like brought in all this hope and he was just so ridiculously popular like his popularity even I think surpassed like his level as a player because he don't get me wrong great player
WizardsMuse: What's up?
Gibson Lowenberg: Not a Hall Famer, unfortunately, but if he stayed healthy, probably. ⁓ He was fantastic. But I think his popularity eventually did surpass that, just because he was so likable. He was a great guy, gave back to the DMV, and he was that number one overall pick. And he was the face of the franchise, like you said. So I could see like...
WizardsMuse: He loves that as a wizard, like, league round is crazy too. Everybody loves John Wall. Everybody knows who he is and like, he was on the Wizards.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah, and it's I know we've had the debate and and the group chat were in about like about whether or not to retire his jersey number But yeah that you have to in my opinion you have to at this point like at 1000 % especially after that lottery spin on Sunday like being there like yeah that put his number in the rafters like I
WizardsMuse: ⁓ yeah, definitely. I'm see what the franchise is cool with them too. Like know him and Leontas weren't too chill, but like they brought him on to do monumental. Now they're marketing him. They had a ceremony for him earlier this season. Like they mess with him again. I don't see the reason to not retire his number at this point.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah. Wonder how much of that though was like him being salty about being traded because he like I think we've both seen the clip from his podcast where he I think he called Tommy a snake or Bradley Beal and he was like calling them out for like Telling him. Yeah, we once once keep you around. want to keep you here You're our guy and then like a week later traded him and he found out from Russell Westbrook as well, which is insane ⁓ Those two were traded for each other but Like that's that's insane person to find out from I guess
WizardsMuse: I mean, I understand being salty about that too. Like he had been here for a decade. He was DC basketball and you get traded like randomly and your your co-star who had been with you for almost a decade snaked you out. The owner he would probably grew close with snaked you out. Like that is kind of dirty.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah, like. Yeah. And he was really the face of the franchise post West's unsealed retiring. Like everything after, I think he retired in 1979. Everything after that, like John Wall's far and away the best player we've had in that timeframe. Like, and I...
WizardsMuse: ⁓ yeah, it's him and Gill and the way that Gill's tenure ended, you don't want to market him as the best player. So it's got to just John Wall.
Gibson Lowenberg: No, no. Yeah, it's John Wall. ⁓ But yeah, moving on with the current state of the Wizards, the current roster, how do you feel the Wizards should approach this upcoming free agency? What trades would you look into? What free agents would you chase if you were in Will Dock and Shoes?
WizardsMuse: I still think even though, I mean, we got the first pick, you're trying to make the playoffs now, like that's the goal, but I still think you try and do move with the youth. Like you build around the youth. If you can, I think you really try and get a backup big because I don't believe Luke Savage. mean, his defensive playmaking, if it can move like it did the last 20 games, maybe he can be a rotational player. But with AD, you know how AD is, he's pretty injury prone. Sar, I still not fully convinced on his health. He's played like 60 games both seasons, which I think he could have played more. But I don't think he'll ever be a guy that plays like 70, 75 games a year, which is OK, because he's a seven footer. So I think you really do try and get another backup big, because you do need the size, especially with the rebounding. hopefully, mean, Mitchell Robinson is my dream guy. I think he's so good. He's so good. Even with the off the court.
Gibson Lowenberg: outside of clutch minutes.
WizardsMuse: Even like He I'm not sure what's going on with him, you know some of the time but like if you can if he can produce on the basketball court Do all the tik-tok lives or post whatever on like your Instagram story you want if you could defend the rim like that So if we could get him, would love him. I'm a UVA fan So I'm biased, but I think we should target gonna and get I might be saying his name wrong But in Yen Su in the draft, he's so good He reminds me of Jay Huff, to be honest, not as much shooting and doesn't move as fluidly, but a much better defender. And Jay Huff was a guy coming out of college, should have been obviously be an NBA player. Like great three and D player could protect the rim, can move out seven foot. Yentu was similar to that. And he's a much better shot blocker, a better defender in my opinion, even if it takes a couple of years, think, even if he's an undrafted free agent, you try and get him. And then I do think you try and get another crater, like point guard. Maybe Will Riley might not be ready for that role to be honest. That's who I prefer to have there. I know they're probably going to put bub there, but who knows how that'll go. So you probably want to try and get another point guard if it's younger. Maybe D'Anthony Melton, even, even though he's old, just on like an MLE for like a year or two. But I don't think you make any substantial moves to be honest. You're already getting that with AJ and you don't really need to move off many of the guys on the young core. And it looks like Anthony Davis will be here for at least a half a year.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah.
WizardsMuse: earlier.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, I agree with you. I don't think they should do anything crazy and I actually wouldn't even be surprised if they just draft ⁓ Draft AJ Devansa and just call it good for the summer That wouldn't surprise me one bit ⁓ The sorry there's construction going downstairs the I wouldn't be surprised if they just say we've got our young core we want to see what these guys can do on their own and just kind of let them do their thing and then at the deadline maybe try and make some moves to improve the roster ⁓ but I wouldn't push to be as good as possible right now I would give it another year and then like a year from now start consolidating talent move guys or two players to get one better player or like and start making friends agency moves ⁓ but yeah I do think if they do do anything it would be a backup point guard backup center you mentioned Mitchell Robinson I really like him I like a day Mara out of Michigan although I think I I think he's got I think he's gonna fly up based on based purely on his measurements and that March Madness performance I think I've seen some I've seen some people even say he's gonna go top ten which I think is
WizardsMuse: I don't think it'll drop at this point.
Gibson Lowenberg: Really high for him. think I think late lottery ⁓ maybe like maybe like late teens seems realistic for him, but
WizardsMuse: There was a Hawks fan in Wanzo's space yesterday that was saying that they want him at... Well, they have eight, right? Yeah, they want him at eight.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. I mean, the Hawks do desperately need size. I could... Yeah, yeah. So I don't think that's realistic for us anymore. I think it would have been, had he not measured in at seven foot three with a seven foot four wingspan and a nine foot nine standing reach.
WizardsMuse: just the fact that he's being considered with the eighth pick like... Ciao.
Gibson Lowenberg: But other guys I I ⁓ like Robert Williams ⁓ as an option. ⁓ Al Horford could be somebody we consider, maybe not. ⁓ I know he's really old, he's been to multiple, he's been to the playoffs just about his entire career until he signed with Golden State. He's been, ⁓ he's a champion. I really like him as a vet for SAR because he's that three and D rebounding center that we want SAR to become. Although SAR could probably be a little bit better than Horford. Probably should be better than Horford. ⁓
WizardsMuse: You're dead. Yeah.
Gibson Lowenberg: But Horford skills I really like as like a mentor for Alex Saar. ⁓ Then like for point guards, you mentioned, I really liked Anthony Melton, like you mentioned. ⁓ I also really like, I'm forgetting his name now. I wouldn't mind. I wouldn't mind a reunion with Tyus Jones, but if Dennis Schroeder gets, if, if Dennis Schroeder ends up a free agent somehow, some way, if he's involved in like that, that rumored Yanis trade, the Cavs might be making, cause I've seen the Cavs connected to them again, if they lose the series to Detroit. ⁓ I've seen, like if, if Schroeder's involved there, I could see Schroeder getting waved and then Schroeder would be really, really good as a backup to Trey. Then you could run three different
WizardsMuse: Yeah. ⁓ yeah.
Gibson Lowenberg: You can run three different types of point guard play. ⁓ Trey Young who does a little bit everything offensively, nothing defensively. Bob Carrington who's a great shooter, decent defender. I'll give him a little bit there just due to his size. He's not great, not as bad as Trey. He's okay. And then Dennis Schroeder who's a great defender, can't shoot with crap, but gets to the rim at an insane rate.
WizardsMuse: I mean Schroeder just wins like I feel like anywhere he goes in the playoffs He's always having a positive impact even if like the stuff he does on the court isn't Insane like he wins. He's a winner. He gives impact. That's what you want on a team Especially if you're a backup point guard playing on a 15 minutes a game of playoffs I'd be I'd love him on the team to be honest. I didn't even know he was a free agent ⁓
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah. He's not but he's he's on a deal but if he gets like if he's included in a trade alongside like Evan Mobley for Yanis, which is rumored at the moment Then I'd imagine Milwaukee would buy him out or at least try and flip him I could see the Wizards trying to trade for him, but his contracts a little a little on the larger side So I'm not sure I'm not 100 % behind it, but
WizardsMuse: Yeah. We have the caps.
Gibson Lowenberg: He's he's he's really great at getting two feet in the in the in the paint He is great at finding shooters in the corner He's he's an okay enough three-point shooter that you have to respect it at time you have to respect if he makes makes one and then He's just a fantastic perimeter perimeter defender point of attack defender. Like that's That's what he does and those three things lead to wits
WizardsMuse: And among our guards, know, both trays aren't great defenders. I actually think Trey Johnson's underrated in that point as a POA defender, but
Gibson Lowenberg: I think he can be better. think he needs to put on some bulk.
WizardsMuse: ⁓ yeah, definitely. I've also said this. He's one of the worst like coming out the draft. He was one of the worst screen navigators I've ever seen. If he's around, if he gets put in a pick and roll, he's getting tossed 10 feet to the side. But like, mean, out of all problems that I feel like that's easier to solve, I feel like he also improved on that this season. But Will Riley is also not a great defender. He probably has the length to be able to improve on that and become positive. But just for next season, think Schroeder would be really useful because he's one of our, he would be one of our best guard defenders.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, Marcus Smart is also a free agent. ⁓ just had, just had a fantastic series in the first round for the Lakers. Probably earned him another 5 million, $10 million, ⁓ per year on just from that series alone. But I went, I wouldn't be against a reunion with Marcus Smart either. Like that, that, that seems perfect almost. Yeah. He. Yeah.
WizardsMuse: I love them. ⁓ his month here was pretty fun. I mean, I know it was like 10 games, but I mean, it was a fun 10 games.
Gibson Lowenberg: Granted he was injured to end his time as a wizard. think going back to something you said earlier about games played for some of young guys and not being 100 % sold that they'll be able to play a ton of minutes. I think a lot of them sat for like nothing burger injuries. Cause like Sar, you said, like you said, he put up 60 games in both of his first two seasons. He was sitting down with a sprained toe for like a month.
WizardsMuse: ⁓ definitely, especially this- ⁓ yeah, Saur could've played way more. They were trying to be cautious going into the season too. He was like... It was him and Balal was also injured. They both could've played open-set.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah, they've, yeah, granted, Bilal had like a broken thumb in playing international play in France, because he was shooting like 40 % from three. Yeah. And then we were like, then we were like, holy crap, what's going on? And then like, he started off the season really cold. And then like around December, he starts like improving every single month. And like the last month of the season, he was shooting 40%. So like.
WizardsMuse: ⁓ I remember I was like, ⁓ we got the below shooting jump like he's already now. Yeah. Yeah, about like February, March, April, it was like 38%.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, after the All-Star break, he's shooting 36 % from three. Like, that's insane.
WizardsMuse: You don't even need that. Just give me like 33, 34 percent and that's like a rotational guy.
Gibson Lowenberg: respectable Yeah, but no, I think I think they were being extremely cautious with any injury like anything that could make you Questionable for one game you were sitting for like three or four maybe five games Maybe maybe even longer than that again sprained toe I kept I kept Alex star out for like a month Anthony Davis was probably good to go a month left in the season like they
WizardsMuse: ⁓ definitely. To be fair, they were saying it was like some finger thing that they had never heard of. doctors were saying like, this is like some new type of thing.
Gibson Lowenberg: I they just kind of said that to a certain extent just to get the lead to not investigate them because they were definitely holding out healthy guys. ⁓ Yeah, yeah. But no, I think...
WizardsMuse: Okay, with Anthony Davis though, I feel like you can just hold him. You're like, yeah, let him go, you know?
Gibson Lowenberg: I think a lot of the guys who really have never played more than like 60, 65 games so far for the Wizards, think we're gonna get a lot more games played out of them. I think the Wizards are gonna be like, okay, fine, you can play ⁓ starting this season and we'll just see what happens, I guess. But kind of moving on. Based on what all we have and the fact that we've had 14 guys on the roster this season already back in the gym as of this morning. ⁓ How do you see the Wizards moving forward with the young core they already have adding AJ DeBansa potentially adding somebody else through the draft depends on what they do with those other two draft picks. If they trade them, move up, who knows? Like what do you see? How do you see the wizards moving forward?
WizardsMuse: I mean, within the next two years, you kind of have to trade some of the young guys. Like not all of them can physically stay. It doesn't make sense contractually. think Sauron Keysauron are the two that are kind of guaranteed to be here. And whoever the first pick is, AJ, Darren, you know, KM, who knows. But those three are kind of, they're going to be here. But while soon, like his contract, I'm pretty sure we haven't signed it's like the extension yet. But books have it's got.
Gibson Lowenberg: He becomes extension eligible this summer. This is first time he'll be eligible.
WizardsMuse: Yes, kind of have to make a decision on him soon. then mean, train will rally. They're still so young. Bob, who knows what's going to happen with Bob? Because I mean, he's going to have to have a good year to probably stay. But I think it's nice that you have your three kind of guys that, you know, they are the building pieces of this team in the first pick, saw her and key Sean. And then you just have flyers like champagne is going to be a guy. He's also young too. He's only like 24. This is like a young guy and we got him on a cheap contract. So he's going to stay between like Trey, Will Riley, Balal, whoever we draft or not with the first pick, but if we pick someone else up young Watkins, like a couple of those are going to work out. A couple of those are going to be rotational players. And then you probably have like six rotational players of all young players. And then you have AD, you have Tray. So mean, you're looking at a team that even if AD doesn't stay or Tray isn't a long-term piece, you can trade those for two rotational guys that are both young. So it looks like we have like, we could have eight or nine guys that are rotational players. So even though it's not like the most normal thinking, that makes me feel really confident about it because I think you do have the core for the team and you have some of the role players that are needed to win. So like you have a winning formula. This is the first time really since I was, again, since I was like a kid, that I have faith that we can actually compete for a championship in the future. I think it's one of the best times for your Wizards fan in so long. Like you can actually see the vision of the team, even if these aren't long-term pieces, not all of them. But you can actually see that, wow, in five years, this team could compete for a championship.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah, and kind of a similar thought. You mentioned, Bob, you weren't sure if he worked out. If he does figure it out and he's able to learn from Trey how to get two feet in the paint and how to find guys on the perimeter from that point, he's already an elite shooter. He's one of the best mid-range shooters in the game. He's a good three-point shooter. I believe he's sitting around 38, 40 % for his career.
WizardsMuse: ⁓ yeah, he's really good.
Gibson Lowenberg: Like if as a shooter he's fantastic the only reason why he's not like A main like yeah, we're keeping him. So you just can't get into the paint so like to me like if bub can learn From tre young who is also kind of not the most athletic point guard in the world tre young's not the fastest not the strongest tre young's even six foot one super small for a guard and that's Yeah, that's that might be a little generous ⁓
WizardsMuse: One is generous too.
Gibson Lowenberg: Whereas bubs six foot five barefoot like if if bub can learn from Trey how to how to take advantage of Angles and how to use his handles to get into the paint because he's got good handles too if he can learn from Trey how to get into the paint and how to how to he's I'll even go so far as to say he's good at the rim when he gets there too or at least decent he's good enough to the point where like He can create out of it. It's just the fact that he doesn't get there often enough To really be a threat So if he can learn that then I think we have our starting five of the future already on the roster with bub belol ⁓ aj queshan and saar because I think I think is going to figure it out as a shooter I really like what we've seen post all-star break and As long as he stays healthy like that's he's one of the he's one of the one of if not the best perimeter defenders in the NBA Which that alone is extremely valuable and if he can figure out his jump shot He's good enough of an athlete that that's that he can pump fake drive out of it and be at a legit threat He's not a great finisher out there. He's actually really bad for a player his size athleticism when it comes to finishing around the rim but like he can put that pressure on on players and then he's fantastic playmaker in the full court he's ridiculous athlete like he's I've seen people call him like a Thompson triplet Like he's kind of in that same vein not not quite The same level of player as those two because those two are bigger stronger faster But like that perimeter defense Absolutely on that caliber
WizardsMuse: Do you got a vote for in the athletics poll for best defender?
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, he's a phenomenal, phenomenal defensive player. It's just the only reason why he's not like, again, like one of those main guys, the offense is so bad. Like if he can just kind of halfway figure it out, it's like, he's guaranteed long term, right?
WizardsMuse: ⁓ yeah, and even if it's not those two, both the sophomores, Will Riley and Trey Johnson, I'm so high on Will Riley. I was wrong on him because I wasn't high on him coming out the draft. The first couple of months looked rough. His creation and just so many counters, like no matter what, no matter what happens, he's still able to get the shot off and get like an efficient shot. He had kind of the same like midseason shooting development where he was a good shooter in college, kind of started the year off not shooting well.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah.
WizardsMuse: And then was amazing to end the year like Keith Shawn. His defense isn't great, but he's a better playmaker. He's a better athlete. He's like six, nine as a, and he can play the two.
Gibson Lowenberg: Absolutely. Yeah, he's... Yeah, according... I think it was according to the Wizards coaching staff and Will Riley himself, he's grown to 6'10", which is...
WizardsMuse: ⁓ yeah, so, yeah, that's ridiculous.
Gibson Lowenberg: And for a player who is capable of playing the point guard, he's maybe not the best playmaker, maybe not even, he hasn't really done too much playmaking, but he's a really good secondary ball hand to last bare minimum. And he can score at all four levels.
WizardsMuse: Peace. Yeah.
Gibson Lowenberg: Like he's a tremendous, tremendous player offensively. It's just, I think he needs to bulk up as well. I think that's an issue that is consistent across the Wizards ⁓ roster, is everybody's just too frickin' thin. Yeah.
WizardsMuse: ⁓ definitely. They've done a good job at it though, especially after their rookie year, was like, Saur put on 18 pounds, Kisong put on like 10, 15. I mean, you see Kisong pushing guys around now. Even Pallual's put on his weight, Bub's put on, no, I don't think Bub's.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, I think AJ Johnson even put on a ridiculous amount of weight. I know you're a big AJ Johnson guy. ⁓ But he put on like, I wanna say he put on like 16 pounds of muscle between the end of the season and then the start of summer league, which is not that long of a period of time.
WizardsMuse: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He got up to like around 170.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, I think he was listed 174 going into summer league. Which, again... Yeah, he was 160 ⁓ during the regular season. I think he was 160 when he got to the Wizards. And he was 174... Yeah. No, no. was way too small. He needs to put on another 20-30 pounds just to be a rotation guy.
WizardsMuse: and she was the widest player in the league by far before that. Yeah, you could put up some poster, dunk, and then be trying to flex. Not much there. In another life we're MVP man. I still love him. I'll support him wherever he goes.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, he's He's he's one of the fastest guys in the league at six foot five if he is able to put on that muscle and Make that jump shot consistently. He'll be he'll be a rotation player. But like he's
WizardsMuse: I'm hoping. I'll support him wherever, whatever Lee he ends up in.
Gibson Lowenberg: I met him at a game in Detroit and yeah, I got I got I got an autograph from him, too I got a ⁓ VUK AJ Anthony Gill and Sadik Bay ⁓ All on that one wizards chain it is the it's the chain of mid autographs
WizardsMuse: actually part of the show. Really? No. I'm jealous. You got two on AJ. I got autographed jersey for all of park.
Gibson Lowenberg: But my favorite part about him is he had like the anime hair, which I absolutely loved. He seems like such a good guy. I want the best for I hope he figures it out in Dallas. I think he'd be really fun next to Cooper Flag if he reaches that ceiling. there was no shot he was gonna reach that in Washington, just without...
WizardsMuse: ⁓ ⁓ no, it was too packed.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, how full ⁓ that wing rotation was even before getting the number one overall pick where the only two options are wings like that. There was no shot he was going to break that rotation.
WizardsMuse: Yeah, I do think though like about Will Riley. I think his processing is good enough where he'll be like a really good playmaker in the future. Like his processing is amazing. He's able to find counters. able he understands angles extremely well for a rookie. Wait, I've said this was before we got the first pick, but Will Riley genuinely has the highest offensive potential of anyone on the team. Aside from however, the first pick like I could see him becoming a 22.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah. ⁓ yeah, absolutely. Yeah, yeah. ⁓
WizardsMuse: and 8 assist guy like if he reaches his full potential of course which unlikely but high end outcome he's he's an all-star
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah, and even even looking at the roster as a whole even just not even taking into account like player development like Even if we have a few guys where if they just stayed the same and did not and just did what they did this season alone think still have a really solid ⁓ foundation. like Kyshawn George, like a 16-5-5 guy on efficiency and elite defense, like yeah, any contender would take that. ⁓
WizardsMuse: ⁓ yeah. Yeah, I really think all Kisun needs to do is like get a tighter handle and be like have less turnovers and he's a very, very good player that could still not any team.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. I he's still only 22. I think the game's still slowing down for him a little bit. So as that handle tightens up, as he refines that jumper more and more, and as he sees the game better and better, that's all he really needs in order to be a Framze All-Star almost, if on a really good team. ⁓
WizardsMuse: No, yeah.
Gibson Lowenberg: He's really good and then like alex sarr all he really needs is in order to be a fringe star is a point guard and then like another like 10 15 20 pounds of muscle Because like again, he's getting bullied by the jalen duran's donovan clingens of the world. It's is really annoying Watching donovan cling and kind of beat up on him because donovan cling is not better than ⁓ sarr But because he's able to beat up on sarr we have to hear it from trailblazers fans who we already hear it from because they got denny
WizardsMuse: I actually don't think Klingon's that bad. I... Honestly, I don't think Klingon and Saw are like insanely far apart.
Gibson Lowenberg: I think Klingon's good. No, I think Saar is objectively better, but also at the same time I don't think the gap is ridiculously wide either because Klingon is fun, he's good in transition, he has a nice little hook, a nice little post hook that he can go to regularly and he's working on expanding that range. Obviously he kinda crapped the bet against the Spurs on that front, but also like you're being guarded by Wemby.
WizardsMuse: Yeah, I mean, I can't really like judge much. Like you played Wemby in your first playoff series.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, like you're not you're not doing anything like we saw like even like go bear and naz read who are all who are both fantastic players in their own right like obviously go bears not great offensively but naz read is Neither one of them have really done much if anything against against one b although go bear definitely did rebound really well in that game four, although
WizardsMuse: Yeah. ⁓ yeah.
Gibson Lowenberg: He did have an elbow or two hands on one his back at all times, but ⁓ he is still really he still had a great impact and he slowed one be enough to the point where it's a competitive series and like One one of the greatest defense defenders of all time point-blank like
WizardsMuse: I GoBear is one of them. I love GoBear. think he's such a I never understood the hate
Gibson Lowenberg: I think a lot of the hate is he's just kind of like I don't think I think he just says and does some things. There's really really rub people the wrong way. Especially like the whole COVID thing was bad. And then like later him and Bilal had the book that they were really into where it just kind of was like, yeah, everybody forgets about the book. ⁓ But it's kind of like you're kind of reading like passages and you're like, ⁓ this is really uncomfy.
WizardsMuse: Yeah, he's a goofy guy. I forgot about that, wow. ⁓ Jesus. Yeah, I mean, for Rudy, it's so much worse. Like, you're like a 35 year old man, like for no excuse, for Balal, like that is terrible. For Balal to be even reading that is disgusting. But Balal's like 20. Like Rudy, you were like 35 and you're like, it was something about like teenage.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, and then. Yeah, like that's just rough. Yeah, it's like what are you doing? But but then like with then further with Rudy he got a lot of the blame and when Utah would have series where they would just look really bad defensively because they just had four net negative perimeter defenders on the floor and they were like They were asking Rudy go bare to essentially do it Alex. Sorry did for the Wizards this season, but like Better and against like yokich
WizardsMuse: might be like, Bogey's the main PLA defender. Yeah, that's like, w-w-w-w.
Gibson Lowenberg: And it's like, yeah, that's not going to work out very well. So he got a lot of blame for that. And then the Timberwolves overpaid for him. And then he just has the worst hands in the league. Like there's something with French centers and not being able to catch lobs. ⁓
WizardsMuse: Sorry, sorry, one of the improvements I've said I want him like on a football wide receiving machine like those jug machines spend like an hour day on that and he'll get like so much better. He'll get like more.
Gibson Lowenberg: Hahaha ⁓ Find a way to get him in a room with like, Ra, St. Brown. Like, get those two in a room together. Like, because I know Aman Ra is like, my dad's a Lion's fan. I know Aman Ra is like, insane. Like, I don't think he does anything in his free time other than like, hands drills. And like, because he just doesn't drop anything either. Like, it's insane. Like,
WizardsMuse: ⁓ yeah. Seems like mentally... Hey, we're local. It can be fun. Get like Terry in there. Yeah.
Gibson Lowenberg: That's fair, yeah, I could get Terry, yeah. We love Terry. But yeah, like, I think the biggest development though I've seen from The Wizards, just completely changing subjects from what I was talking about 30 seconds ago, I think the biggest development I saw all season was like... One bub got into the paint at the end of the season which was like, my god What's happening and then to trey johnson? Like I think he realized his jumper just wasn't falling anymore Which I don't know what's up with that, but he started attacking the paint And he doesn't quite have the muscle to be a paint threat just yet But that that floater went from like a non-weapon at the beginning of the season to like holy crap That's lethal at the end of the season like the the growth and just that
WizardsMuse: You
Gibson Lowenberg: Not even, not even like... Not even just Trey as a player like that that floater alone gives me so much confidence that he'll become something offensively Just because that grew So tremendously and I know he's I know he's got that jumper his the percentage doesn't show it, but he's got it I don't know why it wasn't falling at the end of the season like beginning the season he had a hip injury like Beginning of the season he had that hip injury end of the season I don't know like if it was like a confidence thing or if it was like
WizardsMuse: He's talking hip injuries. I'm pretty sure, like, it was lingering. Like, he still had, he was still going through it a bit, because he was on a miniature restriction all year. And then anytime he did do good, we would just pull him out. So it looks worse than it really was.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, which was blatant tanking. Let's be real. Adam Silver and the gambling companies do.
WizardsMuse: It's the NBA who cares. Okay well... ⁓ well they already fixed it too late. We got the first pick. ⁓ you're not fixed. It's a terrible move by the way. I don't think it'll work.
Gibson Lowenberg: fixed. That draft lottery is horrible. I'm so glad we don't have to worry about that ever. Not ever again, but.
WizardsMuse: Even if we are disappointed next year, we'll win like 35 games and have like the best odds.
Gibson Lowenberg: We'll have better odds than whoever the worst team is if we completely fall flat.
WizardsMuse: Yeah, I mean, we can make the plane and realize there's good odds, it's like the nets.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, which is really depressing for the Nets. Imagine we make the play-in, lose the first game, so we get guaranteed ping pong ball. And then... make the playoffs and so we're a playoff team and still end up with a higher pick than the freaking Nets. Like how, how hard, like the amount of times that that tweet where they're like, we just lapped the wizard, we just lapped the wizards rebuild in one off season. Like imagine how much that would just get absolutely blown up. Like that would be almost as bad as the thank you. Thank you Washington wizards. Read shepherd tweet.
WizardsMuse: We get the first second of the playoff. Nets fans don't even like that account too. Like anytime like I let Quotar go under people are like, ⁓ yeah, we do not mess with him. Like ⁓ don't quote him like none of the fan base likes him.
Gibson Lowenberg: Hahaha Yeah, no, I'm just I'm very I'm very worried about what's what's gonna gonna happen to Brooklyn like obviously as a Wizards fan like ⁓ well, but like as like Taking a step back like just as an analyst of the NBA. It's like What's the plan here?
WizardsMuse: Yeah, I don't even... Like, where do you go? Unless, I guess the only hope is like drafting Akov and then banking on the high end while he's one of the best offensive players in the league maybe can lead us.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, I... I don't know. Like, yeah, I could see them trying to do kind of what they did with like that 2019 teams where that's why 19 team where they move guy they move decent role players for like late first late first early seconds and then like combine those to get better picks which is how they got like Dinwiddie, Laver, Jared Allen, Nick Claxton, D-Lo.
WizardsMuse: They don't even have any guys to do that like you have Klaxon, Clowney, and MPJ. Aside from that, who was catching a first on that?
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, especially since MPJ openly admitted that he just didn't try in the second half of season. Like that, that's...
WizardsMuse: I MPG's value as a player would skyrocket if he just didn't ever talk in an interview.
Gibson Lowenberg: just like take away the microphone just shut up and don't talk
WizardsMuse: Yeah, I mean, I'm not at all one of those shut up and dribble guys, voice your opinion, but sometimes with MPJ, focus on the basketball side of things. It's okay.
Gibson Lowenberg: No, no, he's... He says some of the most off the wall things Some of the stuff he said in the offseason especially with like some of the hotel stuff like that was it that was ridiculous. I won't I won't His vices I won't I Won't go to I won't go too into detail about some of the stuff he said cuz I'm trying to keep this like front friendly, but ⁓
WizardsMuse: I The jaunty You No, I'm pretty sure I know what you're talking about. That was ridiculous.
Gibson Lowenberg: He says some things, it's like, dude.
WizardsMuse: can't believe that came out of a player's mouth, especially that still active. I can understand if you're like 50 and you're talking about it. Like if Gilbert Arredis was talking about it, I wouldn't be surprised. But you're still in the league.
Gibson Lowenberg: An active player's mouth. Dude, like... No, Gilbert Arenas openly admitted to snitching on the guys that got arrested. Yeah, he openly admit... Because he got arrested first. And then he's like, I'll snitch, I'm not going to jail. I'll write all these guys out. And then like two months later, like three NBA guys get arrested. It's like, ⁓ that was Gil. Okay.
WizardsMuse: I choose... ⁓ yeah, that's it. Take care.
Gibson Lowenberg: Like I trust Draymond Green in front of a hot mic before I would trust Michael Porter Jr. or Gilbert Arenas. Like neither one of them should ever be in front of a microphone. And I know they both have podcasts, but it's like, I trust Draymond Green infinitely more than either one of those guys. And I know Draymond's going to go out there and say some wild stuff. Like I saw, I saw that Kevin Hart roast. Like he says some crazy, crazy things.
WizardsMuse: Thank I don't know what he's, I don't even know what, like, I don't think I want to know what he said.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, he's yeah, I just I don't know that the nets are just kind of they're just kind of stuck They're gonna be in purgatory forever the Bulls. I like I like like the Bulls are another another top four team I kind of I like some of the pieces they have really hate the rest of the roster They've got like 8,000 point guards. No center ⁓ Booze alas needs to put on another 30 pounds Josh Giddy is fine, but they need
WizardsMuse: Thank you. I don't think he's a winning player. I mean, the dynasty started after. ⁓
Gibson Lowenberg: Well, I think I Think you can put a team. I think you can build a team with him. But the problem with him was They wanted they wanted to play five out offense and they wanted to play through SGA which obviously yeah play through SGA but like Josh giddy kind of has to be the point guard has to be the facilitator You can't have that when sga is on the floor and you can't play five out with giddy Because giddy giddy did Did improve as a three-point shooter after getting traded, but you can't play five out. You couldn't play five out with him in okay? See he wasn't good enough defender to make up for the fact that he's taking away from sga He's taking away from their offense. Like he wasn't good enough of ⁓
WizardsMuse: continue with.
Gibson Lowenberg: Have a defender to make up for that either. So yeah, they made the right move trading him ⁓ But he's one of the best one of the best sideline out-of-bounds players in the league ⁓ He's earned some amazing nicknames out of that as well But it's he I could see him being a point guard on a winning team, but the roster around him Can't be what the Bulls have as a roster right now
WizardsMuse: Yeah, I'll give them some benefit just because they got a new frontal office. like, people are saying that about the Wizards and look at our frontal office, they've done a good job. So I mean, maybe they do well. So I won't like completely rule them out. But happy to see.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah, I I Do like the fit I love the fit of giddy and Caleb Wilson I think that is a phenomenal fit because they're yeah, they're picking forth So that's that's gonna be who they end up getting unless the unless the Grizzlies take him early because I could see the Grizzlies taking Caleb instead of instead of Boozer, but I really like
WizardsMuse: Oh yeah, that's true in this novel. I think they're good. To be honest, they're so like analytics driven that it makes sense to go boozer.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah Yeah, but I really like I really like Caleb Olson or or Ken Boozer I really like either one of them next to Next to giddy and like I said, I think Booze alas has a really really high ceiling He's just so ridiculously thin that he can't do anything until he puts on like a ton of muscle
WizardsMuse: you That transition offense though, like giddy passing to Matos or... they will... treat me.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, you got you got Bruce Alis and Wilson run in the floor with get with giddy throwing the ball up They need they need an elite shooting guard Like an elite 3d shooting guard like I don't know Kevin Herder or somebody ⁓ Or like and they need like they need a center but other than that like I like Yeah, sure ⁓
WizardsMuse: Patrick Williams.
Gibson Lowenberg: He'll be I don't I don't know. I don't know what's up with Patrick Williams. I don't know
WizardsMuse: ⁓ he just sucks. Like, there's not much I have up. Yeah. Did draft him? Did he? No, that wasn't the scout he drafted.
Gibson Lowenberg: Wasn't he the fourth overall pick too? ⁓ that's awesome. I think that was the 2020 draft, wasn't it?
WizardsMuse: Yeah, no, was. they just, Denny was supposed to, yeah.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, the... Yeah, they took... I remember Denny was projected really high. I had... I remember thinking Denny was gonna be really good and then being like really disappointed until this year and I was like a little vindicated but also at the same time like I don't really care for Denny as much anymore so it's like ⁓ well.
WizardsMuse: Yeah. I don't care. We also don't get the first pick if he's still on the team. So like, I really don't care that he's gone to be honest. If anything, hope that the only thing that changes that we got a different package form or maybe waited like till the deadline and got more. like overall, I really don't care that he's gone.
Gibson Lowenberg: No, so it's like, ⁓ well. No. that reset the timeline. Yeah, we could have gotten more out of them, but also like trading them when we did Reset the timeline it made it took us from like our best player being just outside of their prime to our best player is now 19 So like I get it. I I even in hindsight. I'm like, yeah, I understand that I probably I think they probably make that trade again Honestly, even knowing what they know now ⁓
WizardsMuse: you ⁓ they definitely.
Gibson Lowenberg: Absolutely knowing that they get the first overall pick now. but like Yeah, I think I think we could have gotten more but I'm fine with it because but if bub figures it out Like I said if bubs able to figure out how to get into the paint either by bulking up or just learning how to leverage his handle and his height a little bit better like then he becomes a high endpoint guard just right then and at that point you're like
WizardsMuse: Yeah. Yeah, it's like.
Gibson Lowenberg: ⁓ well. At that point the trade's almost even.
WizardsMuse: It's almost a mental thing for Bubb too. Like I don't think you can be a 6'5 point guard and good shooter and not get in the paint without like there being some mental thing involved.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, I wonder if it's just like how he grew up playing.
WizardsMuse: Yeah, I I think he physically could get into the paint. I remember sometime in the preseason, they said on the broadcast that he was like 90 pounds entering high school. So he probably physically could not have got into the paint or like not passed a defender at that size. So we grew up shooting and it makes sense why I was such a good shooter. It has to just be like mental from like not growing up being able to get into the paint.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think that could be accurate. And I think Trey Young is probably one of the best. ⁓ one of the best mentors in the league because like tre young doesn't rely on athleticism Or strength to get to the paint. He he relies on or even size. He relies on just pure skill and Determination, I guess so like that's a really good Really good mentor for bub who is also a very skilled point guard So but has the size to really be able to leverage that so I wonder I wonder if next year we see a little bit
WizardsMuse: ⁓ for sure.
Gibson Lowenberg: a little bit more like head down, get to the bucket, make something happen from there, bub.
WizardsMuse: And I do hope that like, he went inside to drive and kick more just because I think that'd be such an important part of this game. I'm not too impressed with his playmaking right now, but I also think that like there is a lot of room to grow. And if you're able to get into the paint more, it's gonna get so much better. It's like that, if he can get into the paint, he'll be an okay player. Like he'll be rotating. It's just that.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, like I think a big part of his playmaking as well is one he I don't think he ever played point guard growing up I think he was almost exclusively a shooting guard So I think he's kind of I think there's a big learning curve there because that's one of the more difficult positions to learn in the NBA Really? It's point guard and center pretty easily the two most difficult positions to learn So I'm not surprised that when he just kind of got thrown into the deep end. He struggled ⁓
WizardsMuse: Yeah.
Gibson Lowenberg: But I think if he can into the paint, I think a lot of things open up for him from there. Because I think that's really the most important thing a point guard can do is get into the paint and make things happen from there. Because you can't really create a ton of offense. You can't do a ton of playmaking from the perimeter. Like obviously you can find guys cutting, but there aren't a ton of open passing lanes in the NBA because the NBA defense is just ridiculous. No matter what ⁓ people say on the internet, NBA defense is still the best of the best.
WizardsMuse: Yeah.
Gibson Lowenberg: ⁓ Here I think fine I think Being able to get into the paint and create from there is really what's going to, what will take Bob from being a, he's a okay off the bench combo guard, but nothing special to this guy can be either the sixth man on a team or even a starting point guard. Like I think that's really what'll take him from where he is now to that next level. And like I said, think Trey Young is the best player, one of the best players in the league.
WizardsMuse: He's the best.
Gibson Lowenberg: To teach him how to get there and treyong's also very openly been like yeah, I'm gonna help him with that which I Yeah
WizardsMuse: I love Trey. think he's been such a good mentor. Like the way he's bought into the city, especially, mean, he was like Atlanta for seven years. He had been on deep runs and he completely buys into DC.
Gibson Lowenberg: I've I've never seen a player of that caliber go to a team with the Wizards reputation and really with the record the Wizards have and then just day one be like, this is my city now I'm here. I play for this team, play for the name on the front of the jersey. And then also at the same time, immediately take all of the young guys under his wing and teach them, teach them about like, teach them what he knows. Like we saw We saw almost immediately, Bob, Trey, Will Riley have massive jumps at the end of the season where they went from, where they learned how to break down a defense. I wonder how much of that was Trey Young just being like, hey, this is what to look for.
WizardsMuse: Especially And Bilal and Trey were getting like very good looks. Like I remember every game that Trey Young played, was like Bilal and Trey would get two open threes that they would make. And then Wove Riley, seems like, it seemed like every game, like not even post All-Star break, post like February around the time when Trey really, I know he got there like started January, but probably a few weeks after he really got into DC. It seemed like every single game Wove Riley was better at knowing how to get past a defender and knowing how to manipulate defenses.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah, and like another kind of building on that, like I remember watching Jeremy Lin broke down like Luka Donchich, his go-to ISO move, right? Which is the, I think it's the left to right, tween cross, right? Has he starts almost every possession off like that. I remember watching him break that down. I was like, you know what? I'm going to try that. And like around a pickup basketball. I'm like, I did that. I played like hands down the best basketball of my life. life just like half just rep trying to replicate what Jeremy Lin pointed out Luca Donchich does on a nightly basis and I'm sitting there I'm like is at that point where I'm like okay like somebody like Trey could probably easily teach these guys how to figure that out, how to figure out defense. And obviously I'm not playing defenses at the level of the NBA. I'm playing like YMCA guys in Iowa. Like I'm not ⁓ even LA fitness level defense. So like obviously it's not the same, but like these guys are NBA players and learning from one of the best in the league at.
WizardsMuse: Yeah.
Gibson Lowenberg: Their biggest weakness like that that's gonna show itself and I feel like that was I feel like that's just how like That's just how like my brain immediately attached. I was like, ⁓ I feel like that's really I feel like that's exactly what bub tray, will Riley, key Sean to a certain extent, be like, cool, a Bali potentially like those guys are all gonna like figure out how to attack off the dribble potentially or even shoot like because they've got an elite teacher right fricking there.
WizardsMuse: Oh yeah, Trey's by far like the most talented player probably any of them have ever played with. The smartest player any of them have ever played with.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, except, yeah, with the exception of Anthony Davis, I think that applies to the entire roster, just about.
WizardsMuse: ⁓ yeah true AD, but I mean AD's such like, you're learn much from a center. I'm not trying to hate on AD, I think Trey's talent and what Trey knows how to do fits a lot better to most of the young guys compared to them. I mean Sora's gonna learn so much from AD.
Gibson Lowenberg: I could see... I could s- Yeah. Yeah, that's what I was about to say. I really want to see Anthony Davis teach Tsar how to be more physical and more assertive in the paint, especially getting rebounds. Because that's really the big thing with Tsar, that and just not having the strength to really do it. But I think I would really like to see Anthony Davis pass that on to Alex Tsar.
WizardsMuse: I mean, he's already improved at that so much. Just within a year, you know, I remember working a year, people were like, I don't know if he'll ever be a good player. I don't know if he'll ever even stick in the league too much because he can't like, he's just not big enough and he doesn't play like a center. Now this year, he's barely shooting three. He's getting inside. Get another couple of years of that, learn under AD, bulk up. Like that's like an all-star.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. I mean, like... Yeah. I think. Yeah, he did start taking threes more after the trade deadline. I think they were trying to like set up Saar to be ready to play with Anthony Davis. ⁓ And like the five games he played after the break. But his three point percent is like plummeted when he started taking more threes. So I think like Saar, his real potential is like, ⁓ if he can figure out how to be a bully ball center.
WizardsMuse: Yeah.
Gibson Lowenberg: and then have the ability to stretch out that three. I think that's where his ceiling lies. He just needs to put on the strength, get to that Jalen Durin build if he can get there. Jalen Durin's ridiculous, but if Sara's able to put on muscle like that, then that's where...
WizardsMuse: I don't know if there'll ever be, I don't think that's possible to be honest. yeah.
Gibson Lowenberg: and then have that three point shot, think that's really his way that that would be his ceiling is as like a big, big bully ball center that can also shoot threes and then can also put the ball on the ground and shoot mid range shots and can also shoot fadeaways and play make.
WizardsMuse: Yeah. Just be a star.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, just be elite at everything. ⁓
WizardsMuse: And I mean by the time like either AJ or Darren by the time they're like 23 like let's say that's the time we're really ready to compete for a championship since there will be one that's
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, well, I think we'll be ready to compete even earlier than that. We've got a ridiculous amount of talent on the roster.
WizardsMuse: That's true, but I don't see like title contention until they like start actually unless unless AJ is just like ridiculously good from the jump and he's like 21 22 and already like a 25 point per game scorch. mean, maybe that's the case. It's AJ DeBonsa. But even then, that's like three, four years.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah, I think we have the talent where we start seeing talent consolidation at the deadline. And we start seeing them kind of, I think next off season, not this one, they'll start putting, they'll be like, okay, this is where we didn't really perform super well. So let's fill those gaps in free agency. let's say rebounding still an issue. The second half of the season, after we move on from Anthony Davis, then that would be when they go and get a Mitchell Robinson. Or like if playmaking still an issue, then I could see them going and getting a backup point guard. Then I don't know if, like I said earlier, like an hour ago almost,
WizardsMuse: Yeah.
Gibson Lowenberg: I wouldn't be surprised if they just kinda are happy with the roster they have going into the season. And then just kinda figuring it like... We I think we'll see I think they do make the playoffs this year, but I think that they'll start really trying to morph the roster into the real title contending group at the deadline and then next off season is when we'll really start seeing guys get moved get ⁓ See smaller roles maybe get see free agents come in make trades for guys that fit that fill in the weaknesses I think I think there will still be built I think there will still weaknesses in the roster but I think they start filling that a year from now.
WizardsMuse: Yeah, I mean you also like AD's not a long term piece probably like he's probably gone within two years You're gonna be able to get like one or two really good players for him at least rotational guys Who knows if Trey Young's a long term piece, but you'll also be able to get one or two Rotational like very good guys if you trade him away Even if it's in three four years after a new extension at 33 like you'll still be able to get a good player for him so Like you don't even have to finish the roster building now. You're still able to add pieces, which I think is kind of similar to like what contending teams do right now. Those are going to be the guys that are going to be able to get us those pieces that free us the team. know, like, okay, see getting I heart and Caruso.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, tiff. Yeah. Yeah. I absolutely that's that's that's absolutely what's gonna end up being like because they have tremendous financial flexibility as well for the amount of talent they have because they have they got several young players on Long-term really small contracts. We mentioned champagne earlier as probably the best example of that ⁓ But yeah, like if Anthony Davis plays 30 games before the all-star break one He's gonna be an all-star again, probably all NBA again if he gets to that point but then to like you can flip him for ridiculous somehow for a ridiculous haul because then you can be like We've got healthy Anthony Davis here Like Anthony Davis has played like 75 % of his games like that's that's worth it to you guys and like really really push that Especially if you play it super well and like the Wizards have a really good track record with keeping guys healthy, too. So
WizardsMuse: ⁓ yeah. who's all in good taste. Yeah, I was gonna say like we kept KP healthy for a season. When did KP ever stay healthy?
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, Prisingis had one of his two healthy seasons in Washington and the other one he tore his ACL halfway through that season. it's like...
WizardsMuse: Yeah. Yeah, when you look at before with the Mads, he was never healthy. On the Celtics, he missed pretty much the entire playoff run. Now with the Warriors, he's still missing a lot of time. Like we were the one team that was able to get him help.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, even in their championship, even in that championship run, missed a lot. He missed a ton of that playoff run. Like, I don't think he played until the finals. And then he came off the bench even. Yeah.
WizardsMuse: Yeah. He was like on and off in the finals too. I don't even know if he played. I don't remember if he played every game though.
Gibson Lowenberg: I'll be completely honest, but yeah, he has two healthy seasons. One of them he made the All-Star game and then tore his ACL immediately after being named an All-Star. And the other one was his time with the Wizards where I think he, it wasn't his career high in games played, but it was his career high in games played when playing like actual minutes and not just 15 minutes a night. I think he played 67 games on the Wizards.
WizardsMuse: Yeah. He played over like 60. I think it was like 60. Okay. If AD can play 60 games, I'd be thrilled.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, and like at that point that is tremendous. You're getting tremendous trade value out of them because all you need to do is prove that he can be healthy for five minutes.
WizardsMuse: A year ago he got traded for Luca.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. And then he wasn't healthy, so traded for literally nothing. ⁓ I think it's weird because like you can directly trace the Bradley Beale trade and the Kyle Kuzma trade directly to Anthony Davis and Trae Young. And then also like Will Riley was involved in that. Actually might have been in the Prisingas trade. Like it's...
WizardsMuse: age. Yeah, no, he was.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, because we got that pick from trading Marvin Bagley. No, that was Keyshawn George. Will Reilly was... ⁓ Will Reilly was another... Yeah, ⁓ and Gafford was part of... Gafford was its own trade, I think. Yeah. By the way, like...
WizardsMuse: He's someone with the gaffer trade, I thought. Yeah. He might have was... Was he a s- No. Was he a Tomas Soderanski trade?
Gibson Lowenberg: That might have been, yeah, because I think we traded Soderonsky for Gafford. And then we traded Gafford for, I think, two first, didn't we? Or something like that? One first, maybe? Something weird. And then we traded Bragg. We traded Prozingis for Bagley, Smart. Not Smart. We traded Prozingis for Bagley and a couple picks. And then Bagley for Smart in the pick that became Kyshawn George.
WizardsMuse: Yeah. That's insane. It was some, I feel like...
Gibson Lowenberg: And then let SmartWalk and Free Agency because we couldn't find a trade partner because he was making $20 million a year.
WizardsMuse: And then the bill one is easy to trace. It was like, first part, pull, then take.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, Beal's straight forward. Kuzma was straight forward too, because ⁓ Kuzma was AJ Johnson and Chris Middleton, who he then just flipped straight up for Anthony Davis, and then threw Marvin Bagley in there as well.
WizardsMuse: And the one first from the Beale trade or the crystal trades.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah. Yeah.
WizardsMuse: Dawkins is so good.
Gibson Lowenberg: That is, I mentioned the other day that Will Dawkins is phenomenal at building on the margins. That is specifically what I was referring to. It's just those three, you can trace directly to the core we have now, with the exception of Saar, Trey Johnson, and whoever our rookie is gonna be. And ⁓ Belal, those are the only guys who aren't directly from those three trades.
WizardsMuse: And below was like three weeks after he got hired.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, and bill all still has a really high ceiling. I don't think he'll reach it I think but I do think you'll figure out that three-point shot and then he's got a good enough mid-range and a good enough He's fine at the basket. Not good. Not bad. Not terrible He's one of the worst for his height, but we I digress ⁓
WizardsMuse: I'm pretty sure this because I think we traded two seconds in that below draft like in the future. I'm not 100 % sure but I'm pretty I think one of them translated to Jamir or Vuk's wish.
Gibson Lowenberg: I think. Maybe, because I know we traded up for Bill Oll.
WizardsMuse: Yeah, but we also had like two seconds later and we traded them.
Gibson Lowenberg: We might we might have trade we might have traded those for those guys. I'm not entirely sure it's Yeah, he I think both of those draft picks one of them one of them we treated we traded down for VUK I think that I think it was all part of I think it was all part of the bigger the bigger Bradley Beale trade Because I know each I know we drafted like Trace Jackson Davis, which I don't even know what what's happened to him at this point
WizardsMuse: I think it's just asset management he's great at too. I think we like gave up or he's on the Raptors now.
Gibson Lowenberg: He was on the Warriors last I knew, because we traded him to Golden State ⁓ as part of the Chris Paul trade.
WizardsMuse: to your Toronto or Chicago, you got moved at the deadline.
Gibson Lowenberg: Did he get moved? Oh, I didn't know that. But yeah, was really good, his rookie year, for being that late in the draft, and then he just kind of disappeared. So I don't know.
WizardsMuse: I don't even know if we like traded the pick straight up. think we almost like traded the cash for the pick.
Gibson Lowenberg: Because him and Ryan, that pick and Ryan Rollins were like kind of throw-ins, like super late. And then Patrick Baldwin Jr. too.
WizardsMuse: Yeah, I will say I wish we had kept Ron's or Jay Hoff or guys like that like on the margins I don't think he's been perfect but I mean overall like Dawkins has been amazing. I think his talent is really like he's such he's so good at like managing assets and like getting more picks and what he's supposed to do.
Gibson Lowenberg: I Yeah, we've we've definitely had this conversation before but I think I think Dawkins the reason why Rollins was waived wasn't necessary was was because they were trying to prioritize character and when you're stealing when you're like Didn't you steal from like multiple targets in the area too? Yeah, it's like if you're stealing from target as an as an NBA player like
WizardsMuse: So yeah. Yeah, it was like Fairfax. It was like deodorant.
Gibson Lowenberg: Yeah, it was weird. It was really weird Like I think he was trying to prioritize like integrity and character. So like I think that's Yeah And then he j-huff I he never watched j-huff play I don't think unless it was like his first year as gm and then j-huff barely played
WizardsMuse: Yeah, I I understand that I can't really be mad at it. Yeah.
Gibson Lowenberg: ⁓ So I'm not upset about Jay Huff either. Again, like you said, he hasn't been phenomenal. He hasn't been perfect. But I I'm not upset about the ones that he got wrong because like they the ones he got wrong, it took a while for them to really show up elsewhere. So I'm not I'm not upset about it.
WizardsMuse: but no GMs. Yeah. And who knows if they get that opportunity here.
Gibson Lowenberg: But anyway, I think I'm gonna leave it off there. We're at an hour and 20 minutes. I will say rest in peace to Brandon Clark, who tragically passed away recently. It was announced earlier today as a recording. ⁓ But thank you for joining the Lo and Behold podcast. Thank you, Ethan, for joining. Don't forget to drop a like and follow and also go follow Wizards Muse. And we'll catch you next time. Thank you.