L’Rain – What Does Experimental Mean Now?

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Hi there.
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I've been thinking a lot recently about the difference between music that wants you to notice how complicated, how intricate, how genre blurring it is, and music that can be incredibly all of these things, but somehow feel completely natural.
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And I think that difference is actually really hard to achieve.
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But it's something that naturalness is something my guest on this month's show just totally excels in.
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You're listening to Lost in Sound.
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I'm speaking to you from a street corner in Berlin where since we last spoke, it's got decidedly autumnal.
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It's trench coat season, my favourite of all of the seasons, I have to admit.
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My name's Paul Hanford, I'm your host.
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And if you're new here, Lost and Sound is about music.
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But more specifically, it's a space for having deep conversations with artists who work outside the box.
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The show, as you are probably most likely aware, is now monthly.
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And with the slower rate of episodes coming out, it makes it to me anyway more and more important for this to be a space for slowing down and getting into talk about music and creativity and culture with all of the ums and all of the ers and all of the nuance that I think music and culture and creativity deserve.
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So, whatever you're doing, however you're listening to this today, I'm really happy that you are.
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Put the kettle on, do whatever makes you feel comfy, and we'll get into the conversation very, very, very shortly.
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And on the show today, Brooklyn-based songwriter, multi-instrumentalist, producer, and curator Taja Cheek, who records as L'Rain.
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Now L'Rain, spelt with an apostrophe after the L, is a reimagining of her mother's name, Lorraine.
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And Taja has just released her fourth album.
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It's called Fata Morgana, and it's the culmination, or the culmination so far anyway, of a quadrilogy of albums beginning with 2017's self-titled L'Rain, then 2021's Fatigue, and 2023's I Killed Your Dog.
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Her music is this melting pot of textures, sounds, melodies, colliding shapes, morphing directions that form together into these cohesive yet unpredictable song structures.
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Like I like this word that's used to describe her in the press release, or describe her music anyway, in the press release, genre defiant.
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Like genre defiant as a term, I really like because it's unlike saying eclectic or multi-genre, it feels like these things are there for disposal.
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They're not there to be like uphold as testament or dogma or this is how you do it, is like you use them how you want to use them to create something that is very much your own identity.
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So, for example, there's a track on Fata Morgana called July the 4th, which has this, for most of it, it has this sort of submerged, ambient, folky kind of feel.
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It reminds me a little bit of early Animal Collective in a way, but then something happens towards the end where it morphs into a dance hall track complete with toasted vocals.
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Now that could be very, very contrived, but it just doesn't sound contrived.
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It sounds natural, it sounds where the music and the art really, really wants to go.
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I should also say that there's like a collaborative process going on here with Taja's music.
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Taja is undoubtedly the central axis.
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Um, I think she describes herself in the interview as the matrix to which all of these ideas go into, but she collaborated on the album alongside long-term collaborators Ben Shapotto Katz.
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I hope I've pronounced that right.
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Ben, I'm really, really sorry if I haven't, and Andrew Lapin.
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Uh, Tarja also has another life, a well sort of connected other life, as a respected curator, and she's currently the artistic director of the art organization Performance Space New York.
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Like so many of the conversations on the show in the last year or the last couple of years, it's held with both artist and interviewer being aware of the existing surroundings that we live in at the moment, and being aware of creating art and creating music against like impending fascism and doom.
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It doesn't dominate this conversation, but it is something that I think it is sort of always worth noticing.
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Something I always feel is is there.
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It's not like we're all creating art and picking up podcasts or whatever in a vacuum where you know we're talking about art like the world doesn't matter, and it's there and it's acknowledged.
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And I don't know why I'm even saying that.
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It just feels like you know, you wake up in the morning, it's on your mind, isn't it?
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It's on your mind.
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You turn on your fucking phone and and and you see what that lunatic Trump is doing or whatever, and it's on your mind.
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Anyway, before we get going, some stuff I want to plug this month.
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As you may be aware, I made a radio documentary last year for BBC Radio 3 with my partner Rosalie Delaney.
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The documentary is called Wolf Beerman, the German Bob Dylan Exiled by the GDR, and it's a biographical documentary about the German dissident songwriter Wolf Beerman, who in Germany is an institution, he's a cultural icon, but he's not so well known outside of the German-speaking world.
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The reason I'm bringing this up now is that the documentary has been nominated for an award.
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The Association for International Broadcasting have nominated it in the best audio, arts and culture category.
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We are obviously super excited about this, and it means that on 20th of November this year, me and Rosalie are gonna go to an awards gala.
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Yay! So if you're in the UK or you have a VPN, you can listen to the documentary on the BBC Sounds app.
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And yeah, I'd very much love your feedback on that.
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Let me know if you enjoyed it, let me know if it was something that you know you thought was good.
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Anyway, back to Lost and Sound.
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Now we're monthly.
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Your support, this is the bit, this is the podcast bit where the podcaster goes on about subscriptions and stuff, but it really does help.
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It really does mean a lot.
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Your support really does mean a lot.
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And you can do this in a couple of ways.
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You can follow me on Instagram at Paul Hamford or follow the Substack.
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The Substack is called Lost and Sound.
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I put hyperlinks to these in the podcast description.
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And please subscribe to the show if you've not done so already.
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So now back to the conversation.
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Lorraine, we had this chat earlier in the month.
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This is me, Paul Hamford, talking with Taja Cheek, aka L'Rain for Lost and Sound Podcast.
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Here it is.
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So thanks so much for joining me today.
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The new L'Rain record is out now, Fata Morgana.
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Where does it find you creatively at the moment?
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Ooh, it finds me in a place of optimism and abundance, I think, creatively.
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Yeah.
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Okay, that's great.
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Yeah.
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No, that is true.
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Everything has a caveat at the moment, doesn't it?
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Really?
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Yes.
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How do you, I mean, I guess that's an interesting question in itself.
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It's like, how do you divide that up between, say, what is going on particularly?
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I'm I'm I mean, I'm not wanting to put words in your mouth, but to allude to what is going on in the world, perhaps, and still finding this kind of abundance creatively.
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How do they sit with each other?
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Um, I think with this record, it took me a second to figure that out.
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Yeah.
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Um, it felt difficult to put together.
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Not that the uh and it felt extra musical somehow.
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It felt like it was something else that was making it difficult.
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Yeah.
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Um, and I had a long conversation with my collaborator Andrew, and I was just kind of expressing how I was feeling about it.
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And he's like, Well, look at the world.
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If you're making something that is at all responding to this moment, it's gonna be a difficult thing to do.
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Yeah, yeah.
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And so did you feel with the record that you were responding to what is going on?
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Do you, or do you feel like it was more of like an internal kind of way of responding by channeling into art separately?
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It's not always a one-to-one, you know, it's not like I'm making work about the world, but I am because I'm making work at that time.
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So it's there, and I'm and I'm feeling that I'm responding to that in some way.
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There's at least one song that kind of is more directly thinking about the world, but it's more that I'm I'm making work and thinking about the moment.
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I'm like very much not in a silo ever when I'm making work.
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I think of fatigue in that way too, where you know it's not about the pandemic or anything that was happening politically around that time, but it's but it is, and it's in there and it's in me, and it couldn't have really been made at any other time.
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Yeah, yeah.
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It's amazing the amount of ingredients that go into doing any kind of work, isn't there?
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And that there's all of the ingredients that you don't directly put in, but like affect you in good times, that can be just like what you've eaten that day, and and um but then there's also just like how you how you took how your transport method to get to the studio or wherever you are and things like that.
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Totally.
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I really, I really truly believe that it's all all the ingredients are in there.
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And sometimes it's really interesting how that is subconscious, isn't it?
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And is it do you feel like for you?
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Because there seems to be such with your work, there seems to be such a kind of like it's really hard to describe for me, but like a way that all of these lot, so many different influences and sounds and textures and ways the music moves continually are fed in.
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Um, is there something that is very sort of subconscious about the way you put the music together?
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Or you know, I mean, I guess these things like you mentioned are not maybe one or the other, but how how much do you draw on your subconscious?
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I it's an extremely intuitive process for me.
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Um I'm guided more by you know that than I am by my rational brain.
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Yeah.
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Um, and that can be a little bit difficult sometimes for a collaborator because I I know where I'm going.
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Um, and we've kind of talked about it like it's following a light through a dark tunnel.
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And I know way more about the light than anyone else does.
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And so sometimes it's a real leap, a leap of faith, you know.
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Um, but yeah, it's all intuition and feeling for sure.
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So I guess you have to build up a lot of trust with your uh your collaborators for them to to be willing to follow you through the darkness to the light.
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Yeah.
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Definitely.
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But that's also why, you know, sometimes you know, my music is described as heady and it's it's so funny to me and just feels so opposite to how I think of it, because it's just all based on how you know my emotions and my intuitions, and it is very it's this like you know, deeply um emotional, intuitive process.
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So yeah, definitely.
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It's it's so interesting how when people, whatever kind of art form it is, the the the finished result, people just see the finished result, don't they?
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They don't see like not just the toil and the labor, but the the emotional processes, the the wrong turns, the right turns, you know, the accelerations and the slowing down and everything like that.
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And totally my my emotions just tell me to write things in 17, but it doesn't mean that it's not.
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It doesn't mean that my head is doing it.
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Are there times where your head has to take a jump over your emotions to reign an idea in a certain way?
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Oh, that's a good question.
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I'm sure there are examples I can't think of any at the moment.
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But in general, I feel when I'm making music, I I get overwhelmed by the idea of doing something right or being, you know, the right kind of technical or being a good enough musician and all those thoughts.
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And I try as best as I can to like build that into the process of making music to really kind of focus on collaging and other things that that require a different kind of intelligence, you know, or knowing and being.
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Um, so maybe that's the quieting that happens.
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It's really just my rational brain being like, Well, you're not a good bassist, or you're not a good guitarist, or who are you to make this, or who are you to do that?
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The little the little figure on the shoulder, so they're whispering in the ear.
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Yeah, that's a good way to that's a good way to sort of uh win against the the little figure, isn't it?
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Yeah.
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I mean, when when you started making this record particularly, did you have an idea of what you wanted the record to be, or or does that sort of come through the process of making it?
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I knew at the very least that it would kind of be about me in a more concentrated sense.
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It's all about me, but um in a more kind of deliberate sense, I knew that that would be the case.
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And I generally know um at the beginning of that process that I, you know, what songs I would include.
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Um I didn't know how they would all fit together, but I kind of had a sense.
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Do you sort of like conceptualize it from the beginning then?
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I don't always and I don't know everything, but I know some things, and I usually know what songs belong together.
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We really work with um, we work very economically.
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The songs I bring in are usually the ones that are on the record, and we don't cut anything, we don't add anything.
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It just it is what it is.
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Um, and that's been the case for every single record.
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So that I know, and we usually have like a a State of the Union meeting before each session, and we just talk about what we're feeling and what we want to do, and you know, where we see the record going and what some of our goals are and our hopes and dreams.
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And we don't really refer to it at any other point, but at the end of it, usually we can kind of we can see the through line and we can see how we've approached all the things that we were thinking about from the beginning.
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And it doesn't always look the same way that we think it might look, but we almost always follow through on that.
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Yeah, yeah.
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That there is a sort of pee, I guess a lot for a lot of artists, it sort of pieces together along the way.
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And I love the fact that you say it doesn't always sound quite how you imagine.
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I'm paraphrasing you, apologies.
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Um but it but at the same time, sometimes things aren't literal, are they?
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Sometimes, you know, like an expression or a conversation that you plan in your head can go a different way, but it still in a way goes where you imagine it to, is just yeah.
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Yes, exactly.
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And and I mean, we're gonna talk a bit about genre a little bit throughout.
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And I mean, I think that's probably one of the most obvious and non-deep ways that I think when I hear your music or I know when other people hear your music can first approach it, is by like looking at like the way different genres uh and styles are kind of collaged together.
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Like there's amazing points on this record where you know it just it just seems to like so often when artists are like playing with genre, I can kind of really feel where it changes.
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But with a lot of your music, I don't.
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I just it just seems to move, you know, like in in its in it of its own life, you know, and I go, oh my god, this has actually changed quite a lot from a minute ago.
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I mean, when when you're making music, are you thinking in terms of genre?
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I um sometimes am, um and sometimes I'm not.
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Um, but generally it ends up being a little bit of a a matrix, and I try to keep myself as close to the center of the matrix as possible, where it's never too much of one thing.
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And if it is too much of one thing, I'll sort of deliberately bring something else in.
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Um there's something that happens where all the music goes through like a Taja filter, as some of my friends call it, and it just kind of becomes a a thing that makes sense in the Lurian world.
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Um, but also I'm doing some of that deliberately and like making sure that nothing is too much of anything.
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Like, for example, I I think of um have secret names for all the songs, so I have to remember what it's actually publicly called.
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Yeah.
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Um July 5th.
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Um where I'm thinking about a you know, a folk song, but I wanted it to be produced kind of like Nick Drake.
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I and then we had this idea for the you know, dance hall vocalist that kind of made sense from the beginning, but it was sort of sounded out started out as a joke that went too far.
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Um but also I didn't want the folk song to be too folky, so I was so I was really thinking about, you know, wanted to bring in more electronic elements.
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Um, and we're really kind of like making those negotiations.
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We're like, this is too much of this, we have to bring it closer to something else where where it feels foreign enough.
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Um yeah.
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I love that.
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I'm I remember I was I was interviewing A.R.
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Kane a while ago, and he was describing how he saw it as like being four elements to music, and I'm gonna get this totally wrong, but he said, like, there was like rhythm, melody, uh noise, and something else.
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I can't remember, but he said, like, you can't have the levels up for all of them, you know.
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All of you have to sort of have one level up a bit more than the other, otherwise, they rule each other out.
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I love that.
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That's such a great way of phrasing that.
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Yeah.
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Um, one of these elements with with the kind of collaging and the genres, it sort of feels quite often that your music is constantly kind of coming apart and then rebuilding itself, like in a very, very fluid way.
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Like, I don't hear the gaps or the joins.
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What interests you about that process, or or maybe not the process, but the maybe the result, I guess, of when you're listening to it.
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There's something that happens when you're taking somewhere and you're not expecting it, and then you just have to keep following it.
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And I'm interested in that.
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And it's also just kind of like a compositional challenge, I think, to just kind of keep things going.
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But as a person that's really interested in world building, I feel like part of excuse me, part of building the world is kind of keeping people contained within it.
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Yeah.
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Um, and so I really try to make sure that you know the the real the real world doesn't really seep in as much as possible.
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Um or it's there.
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No, the world is is very much there.
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Um, like the actual world.
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I that's not true at all.
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I really want the world to be there, but also it's my version of it.
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Yes, there's a distinction, isn't it?
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It's yeah, it's a subjective empirical kind of way of the world.
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Totally.
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Like I don't, you know, I don't want to be separate from the world.
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I never want to be separate from the world.
00:20:58.480 --> 00:21:07.359
And I think that's important, especially as like a you know, quote unquote experimental musician, that that's really important to not just be in my silo.
00:21:07.359 --> 00:21:10.880
Like, I want to be participating, I want to be around.
00:21:11.599 --> 00:21:12.559
Yeah, definitely.
00:21:12.559 --> 00:21:19.279
There's definitely some stuff I want to ask you about, like the the quote unquote experimental nature um in a little bit.
00:21:19.279 --> 00:21:22.880
Um, but first, I sort of wanted to kind of ask a little bit more about this process.
00:21:22.880 --> 00:21:27.440
And one of the things that also happens a lot with your music is the way you collect field recordings.
00:21:27.440 --> 00:21:35.519
Like I've read various interviews with you about how at different times you've you've found certain field recordings that you've made.
00:21:35.519 --> 00:21:45.279
Um what makes you hear a sound out in the world and and think like I'm keeping this or I'm gonna find a use for for this?
00:21:46.400 --> 00:21:56.000
Oh, yeah, I never I never really record something thinking I know how I'm gonna use it, but I record it knowing that it makes me feel something.
00:21:56.000 --> 00:21:59.599
And that can be desperation, that can be joy.
00:21:59.599 --> 00:22:07.920
That can be humor or like you know, it it can be whatever it is, it just has to make me feel something and it has to feel real.
00:22:07.920 --> 00:22:12.640
Even you know, something fabricated can also be something real, you know.
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:14.720
Um, and so I think about that too.
00:22:14.720 --> 00:22:18.480
Like sometimes I record things like knowing that people know that I'm recording.
00:22:18.480 --> 00:22:20.799
Um can you tell me what you mean by that?
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:23.039
Sorry, by by fabricated and people bearing.
00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:32.640
You can be doing something for you know, knowing that you'll be recorded, but there can be something like very real that's sort of underneath that, you know.
00:22:32.640 --> 00:22:40.640
Like I'm I'm thinking specifically my friend Halo, who was the voice of Happy Birthday on the first record.
00:22:40.640 --> 00:22:46.799
Yeah, they sense that record have been taking hormones and their voice sounds very different.
00:22:46.960 --> 00:22:47.200
Yeah.
00:22:47.359 --> 00:22:54.559
Um, and they're going through a lot of life changes and changes and updates to how they think of themselves in the context of the world.
00:22:54.559 --> 00:22:59.920
And they called me and they left a message on my birthday.
00:22:59.920 --> 00:23:06.240
Um, they left a message specifically like thinking about that on my phone.
00:23:06.240 --> 00:23:17.680
And um yeah, and there it's you know, it's it's we're getting to the 10th anniversary of the first record, and so they're like, you know, sort of putting it there as just like, you know, a gesture.
00:23:17.680 --> 00:23:18.880
It was very pointed.
00:23:18.880 --> 00:23:24.400
It was like, you know, you have this here now, and like maybe you'll use it for something else, like it would be so great, you know.
00:23:24.400 --> 00:23:30.240
But it was just it that that was obviously very self-aware, um, but it's extremely real.
00:23:30.640 --> 00:23:32.400
Yeah, I see I see what you mean there.
00:23:32.400 --> 00:23:33.759
Yeah, yeah, definitely.
00:23:33.759 --> 00:23:47.359
And um is there any is there anything that you've recorded recently in terms of field recordings that you you know you you particularly found interesting or that perhaps you're interested in finding to field record?
00:23:48.880 --> 00:23:54.160
I happen to have a lot of conversations with um cab drivers.
00:23:54.160 --> 00:23:56.400
I like a lot.
00:23:56.400 --> 00:24:01.039
I've just always, you know, I don't know, I just seem like someone that people want to talk to.
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:01.759
Less so now.
00:24:01.759 --> 00:24:02.400
It's funny.
00:24:02.400 --> 00:24:10.720
Like uh something is happening now where I'm having fewer conversations, but yeah, um, every once in a while it will happen, and it's usually something extremely profound.
00:24:10.720 --> 00:24:29.119
I remember one in particular where they're talking about the relationship to their children and the fear that they had going into becoming a father and how they relate to the world and how they protect them and how they're you know growing up too fast and they're trying to keep, they're trying to like savor every moment of being with them.
00:24:29.119 --> 00:24:34.799
And it was just like, oh my god, but it's like moments like that for whatever reason.
00:24:34.799 --> 00:24:42.240
I have like a really big collection of these really, yeah, incredibly profound conversations with cab drivers.
00:24:42.240 --> 00:24:44.400
Um, and so I think about that a lot.
00:24:44.400 --> 00:24:56.079
Um, and I've been wanting to maybe do something with that in particular, um, because it's you know, it's a very specific thing where you're in someone's car, there's like a vulnerability there.
00:24:56.079 --> 00:24:56.400
Yeah.
00:24:56.400 --> 00:25:01.039
Um, it's just you and this person and what you reveal, what you don't reveal.
00:25:01.039 --> 00:25:10.400
Also, there's a thing just like in big cities, but in particular in New York, about you know, being a stranger, but also being extremely intimate with the people around you.
00:25:10.400 --> 00:25:12.400
Um, and that always interests me.
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:14.480
I I love that tension.
00:25:14.880 --> 00:25:16.960
Yeah, that's a that's a lovely one, actually.
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:20.480
I I've yeah, it's interesting what you're saying about taxi drivers.
00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:24.480
I've definitely had some very profound late-night conversations with taxi drivers.
00:25:24.480 --> 00:25:28.960
I've also had some horrific conversations with taxi drivers from from time to time.
00:25:28.960 --> 00:25:39.039
I I mean, I guess maybe that's part and parcel of of the the the like you say, the uh the intimacy with strangers is you don't really know what you're gonna get, really.
00:25:39.039 --> 00:25:44.000
Do you and it's uh passing moment in people's lives.
00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:50.079
Well, I I look forward to hearing that if it does uh if it does manifest at some point.
00:25:50.079 --> 00:25:58.640
Um I wanted to kind of go back to like your your roots and and like how how it all began for you, really.
00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:01.759
So you you grew up in were you born in Brooklyn?
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:03.759
I was born in Brooklyn, yeah.
00:26:04.000 --> 00:26:11.119
Yeah, and do you have like any really like early formative memories of connecting with music as a child?
00:26:12.319 --> 00:26:14.079
Well, uh it's funny.
00:26:14.079 --> 00:26:20.480
My mom would always say, you know, that she would sort of purposefully play music for me when I was in her womb.
00:26:20.480 --> 00:26:32.480
Yeah, and would just kind of, you know, I don't I don't know what she was playing in there, but or out there, but I don't remember that, but that's probably the my earliest contact with music.
00:26:32.480 --> 00:26:34.400
That would be the earliest, wouldn't it?
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:37.119
Yeah, that would be the absolute earliest.
00:26:37.119 --> 00:26:44.559
I have uh, I think my earliest, earliest memory, uh maybe it's not, I don't know, but I have this like really warped, strange memory.
00:26:44.559 --> 00:26:50.960
I'm not even sure if it's a dream of um waking up at a Patty LaBelle concert.
00:26:50.960 --> 00:26:54.240
And that's like I don't remember before waking up.
00:26:54.240 --> 00:26:57.119
I remember the waking up, and that's what makes it kind of like a dream.
00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:03.599
And then I just wake up and I'm there and I'm and I'm listening to the music, and then it just kind of like the my the memory fades.
00:27:03.599 --> 00:27:05.680
I actually should ask my dad if that really happened.
00:27:06.000 --> 00:27:06.240
Right.
00:27:06.240 --> 00:27:09.519
So it's one of those ones you're not sure if it really happened or not.
00:27:09.519 --> 00:27:09.920
Yeah.
00:27:10.079 --> 00:27:10.319
Yeah.
00:27:10.480 --> 00:27:11.680
Yeah, I have a similar thought.
00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:22.960
Well, I know it didn't happen, but I have a similar thing where my my mum used to have a friend when we were really young who was a singer, and as a child, I believed she was Kate Bush, but she wasn't.
00:27:22.960 --> 00:27:23.839
She wasn't at all.
00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:29.440
I think there must have just been like I'd heard some Kate Bush and and she might have looked a bit like Kate Bush.
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:43.279
But so I have these like young memories of this, which I know are untrue, but they still feel really magical, you know, and uh um be great to find out if like the uh the Patty Labelle thing is yeah, it would.
00:27:43.759 --> 00:27:46.640
But I but there's a part of me that almost doesn't want to disturb it.
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:50.640
It's kind of like perfect as this kind of hazy, weird memory.
00:27:50.640 --> 00:27:52.400
But I I do kind of want to ask my dad.
00:27:52.640 --> 00:27:52.960
Totally.
00:27:52.960 --> 00:28:07.519
I mean, I guess maybe that's the thing, maybe in a way that feeds into what you're saying about how you you know you construct with music, you know, like you have this matrix, but in the center there's you, or you know, you're guiding through it that there's always like the reality, but it's like your version of reality.
00:28:07.519 --> 00:28:09.359
Sorry, I'm sounding like a shrink.
00:28:09.359 --> 00:28:10.720
I'm really sorry.
00:28:10.720 --> 00:28:18.000
Um like I guess maybe there is that thing of some memories are like best the way they are.
00:28:18.000 --> 00:28:21.920
Um yeah, and what is the truth anyway?
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:23.279
I don't know, you know.
00:28:23.839 --> 00:28:26.960
Yeah, what is what is the truth in 2026?
00:28:26.960 --> 00:28:28.319
I really don't know.
00:28:28.720 --> 00:28:29.920
No one knows anymore.
00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:30.960
No one knows.
00:28:30.960 --> 00:28:43.039
It's just I mean, what about like um when music started to become like a uh a thing that you started to do?
00:28:43.039 --> 00:28:49.359
What what was the process for you in in becoming like actively involved in in making music?
00:28:50.240 --> 00:29:02.559
I mean, my fur my earliest memories of making music are I remember watching some Disney film and then running into my dad's office and um like rewriting the lyrics.
00:29:02.559 --> 00:29:13.759
Or I would um uh my school had a garden and we would um we would kind of my friends and I would walk together and we would just harmonize and sing songs together.
00:29:13.759 --> 00:29:17.039
That was always it was always kind of there, the making impulse.
00:29:17.039 --> 00:29:33.279
But I really started making music when I was more seriously taking piano lessons and I would make mistakes and I would get kind of fixated on the mistakes I was making and follow that instead of you know continuing to practice.
00:29:33.519 --> 00:29:34.160
Oh wow.
00:29:35.200 --> 00:29:42.640
And I, you know, was really interested in kind of like French impressionist harmony in particular that has connections to jazz.
00:29:42.640 --> 00:29:57.599
Um and I would kind of put my own thing on it by accident by making these mistakes, or I would just get really fixated on like one or two chords or something, and something I was I was practicing, and I would just kind of go off on a tangent.
00:29:57.599 --> 00:30:00.319
And that's really kind of how I started writing music.
00:30:00.319 --> 00:30:11.039
And in high school, you know, I was in like an Iron Maiden cover band, and it wasn't exactly an Iron Maiden cover band, but it they just played a lot of Iron Maiden covers, and the lead singer listened to a lot of Iron Maiden.
00:30:11.039 --> 00:30:22.319
Um, and I would sort of like roam the hallways with my with my friend writing songs, and we would send songs back and forth, and that became sort of like my first meaningful um writing experience.
00:30:22.319 --> 00:30:29.519
Some of those songs that from that era I still reference now, and I still have little recordings of things that I did then.
00:30:30.000 --> 00:30:32.240
You you're classically trained.
00:30:32.799 --> 00:30:34.400
Yeah, technically, I guess technically.
00:30:34.720 --> 00:30:53.599
Technically, because it was it's interesting what you were saying about like picking up on the mistakes and working with the mistakes, because uh I think so many people that are classically trained, or the general idea of classically trained, I think is often um not to do that or or or not not to kind of move in an independent way.
00:30:53.599 --> 00:31:05.839
Was there ever any sort of friction or or tension with this like you know, artistic impulse you had to like work with mistakes and the the kind of more orthodox aspects of of classical training?
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:07.039
Yeah, definitely.
00:31:07.039 --> 00:31:11.119
I mean, there's a point where you know, I'm like, I I need to get back to practicing.
00:31:11.119 --> 00:31:23.680
Yeah, you know, it's like that was that was all well and good, but like I have to, you know, I have to keep practicing and doing things and like figure out, you know, how to actually like reach that chord or reach that note.
00:31:23.680 --> 00:31:25.920
Um, so I was always feeling that.
00:31:25.920 --> 00:31:27.599
And also I kind of feel it now.
00:31:27.599 --> 00:31:42.960
Like I I think about, you know, my I piano teacher was really amazing and was I, you know, I I think about her through the music I make, the the way that I think about time, how I think about my physical body in relation to what I make and produce.
00:31:42.960 --> 00:31:47.920
There's so much that comes from her and I learned being with her.
00:31:47.920 --> 00:31:53.599
And I'm like, and I haven't I haven't really talked to her in some years, and I'm like, oh man, I hope she's okay.
00:31:53.599 --> 00:31:55.680
I like I should probably reach out.
00:31:55.680 --> 00:32:09.279
I should tell her that I, you know, I ended up making music in the end, like you know, all of these things, and I I get really nervous and I I don't reach out and and you know, I don't want to know, you know, if something happened to her, God forbid.
00:32:09.279 --> 00:32:10.799
You know, I'm just so horrible.
00:32:10.799 --> 00:32:11.519
And so I don't know.
00:32:11.519 --> 00:32:16.000
I'm kind of like thinking about all of those things a lot, but I I think about her every once in a while.
00:32:16.000 --> 00:32:19.359
I'm like, I should give her, I should call her today's the day I'll do it.
00:32:19.440 --> 00:32:20.559
And then I and then I don't.
00:32:20.559 --> 00:32:21.680
Yeah, no, yeah.
00:32:21.680 --> 00:32:32.799
I I for me it's the sort of about 3:30 in the afternoon, four o'clock slump where all my ambitions from the morning just go, oh I'll deal with it tomorrow.
00:32:32.799 --> 00:32:34.720
I can't, I can't do any mail now.
00:32:34.720 --> 00:32:36.480
I can't do anything that involves confidence.
00:32:36.480 --> 00:32:37.440
I I don't know.
00:32:38.480 --> 00:32:40.240
Yeah, yes.
00:32:40.480 --> 00:32:45.759
I mean, what about like externally in terms of like the music culture that was going on at the time?
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:51.279
Were there like are like artists or bands or scenes that you were like, I mean, you mentioned Iron Maiden.
00:32:51.279 --> 00:32:56.400
Were there were there like scenes that were kind of you were particularly drawn to at the time?
00:32:57.440 --> 00:33:02.000
Yeah, I mean, it was mostly the the sort of indie scene around New York.
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:12.240
Um, you know, I my my dad was kind of involved in radio and and hip hop and RB and so and and some jazz, but like that kind of side of things.
00:33:12.240 --> 00:33:31.359
And so I um like grew up listening to that, and that was kind of like my my home base, but I was just around a lot of like indie music happening around New York, and I didn't have a fake ID, so I would only be able to get into DIY venues and free shows, and there were a lot of them.
00:33:31.680 --> 00:33:33.119
What era are we talking here?
00:33:33.119 --> 00:33:38.319
Sorry, is this like early 2000s or yeah, early 2000s?
00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:45.119
Yeah, when people were still, you know, going to Williamsburg and going to shows and things like that.
00:33:45.119 --> 00:33:54.000
Um that was kind of my my world, and I felt like an outsider to that world, but it was still my world.
00:33:54.480 --> 00:33:54.720
Yeah.
00:33:54.720 --> 00:33:58.720
So you were very, very young when this was going on, yeah.
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:16.800
And sort of talking about going to DIY gigs, and like now that that sort of era and that scene has become like very mythologized, and uh and I guess not just the music, but like you mentioned about Williamsburg as well, and that whole kind of like I guess like hipster era, you know.
00:34:16.800 --> 00:34:28.159
Um, like I haven't been to New York for 13 years, and that was just I think I remember I remember staying in in Bushwick and it was just about affordable, I I think, at the time.
00:34:28.159 --> 00:34:35.199
And I mean, yeah, it's interesting, isn't it, how things have just kind of moved on so so quickly, really, hasn't it?
00:34:35.199 --> 00:34:43.920
Like that scene has become like I guess like you know, the influences have have trickled down and revived and become other things now.
00:34:44.400 --> 00:34:46.800
Yeah, they have, but it's it's interesting.
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:55.519
I've kind of toured and played with and collaborated with a lot of those people, not a lot of them, but like people who are meaningful to me in those scenes.
00:34:55.519 --> 00:35:03.440
Um sense, and you can and when you go to the shows, there's there's so many young people, which is so cool.
00:35:03.440 --> 00:35:05.679
Yes, so interesting to me.
00:35:05.679 --> 00:35:07.519
It's like you know, teenagers.
00:35:07.519 --> 00:35:08.079
Yeah.
00:35:08.079 --> 00:35:11.599
And that feels really that gives me a lot of hope.
00:35:11.599 --> 00:35:20.320
It makes me really happy that you know the music is still reaching uh more people and that there's something uh you know relevant to you know the kids.
00:35:21.119 --> 00:35:22.159
Yeah, I think so.
00:35:22.159 --> 00:35:50.559
I I think with AI and and the ubiquity of that, I think like live performance is becoming is taking on a new and like live band dynamic, is sort of adding a new level of like realness for people, you know, in a way that doesn't feel like intellectual or meditated, just like more like like a primal need to see people slightly fuck up but be brilliant and and shit and at the same time, you know.
00:35:51.199 --> 00:35:52.719
Yeah, I hope, I hope.
00:35:53.119 --> 00:35:54.079
Me too, me too.
00:35:54.079 --> 00:35:57.039
Yeah, I maybe that's the optimistic sort of element, isn't it?
00:35:57.039 --> 00:35:58.239
I love that.
00:35:58.320 --> 00:35:59.360
I'm gonna cling to that.
00:35:59.599 --> 00:36:00.800
Yeah, me too.
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:22.880
And when when when was um you know, it seems to be like a lot of like your musical identity started very, very, very earlier on, but when did it start to sort of cohese for you into Lorraine as as a sort of way of it becoming an external thing in in the outer world?
00:36:23.199 --> 00:36:31.519
Yeah, I mean, I guess that was sort of at I I played in you know projects that were very collaborative where everyone was riding together.
00:36:31.519 --> 00:36:37.119
And in the midst of those projects, I feel like I still had a pretty distinct sense of self.
00:36:37.119 --> 00:36:39.440
I was just kind of mixing it with other people.
00:36:39.440 --> 00:36:50.239
And when that stopped happening, my collaborator Andrew Lapin asked me if I wanted to make a solo record, and I really had no interest in making a solo record at all.
00:36:50.239 --> 00:36:54.800
I only knew how to make records with other people, sort of actively songwriting.
00:36:54.800 --> 00:36:58.480
But I had all this material that I wanted to bring to the band that I no longer could.
00:36:58.480 --> 00:37:04.400
And I was like, well, I guess I guess I'm gonna make this record.
00:37:04.400 --> 00:37:09.760
And yeah, I guess that must have been like uh 2014 or 2015 or something.
00:37:09.760 --> 00:37:26.639
And uh yeah, I guess the rest is kind of history, but I would say I feel like in high school was really kind of when I was forming a pretty distinct musical sense of self, and I I still feel connected to to her.
00:37:26.639 --> 00:37:30.480
I feel like that's um we're the same.
00:37:30.480 --> 00:37:41.440
Yeah, like whatever I was doing then is like it's the same and related to what I'm doing now, and I'm still referring to that material, like there are things I wrote then that may make it onto future records.
00:37:41.599 --> 00:37:59.119
Like I'm uh you know so you you could you call her her, like do you do you ever ask her for advice, or do you ever like sort of maybe like ask her for approval over like ideas or put yourself in a situation of going like, would she like this?
00:37:59.119 --> 00:38:01.119
Would she not like this?
00:38:02.639 --> 00:38:08.239
I don't know if it's so explicit, but I just try to like you know channel that feeling.
00:38:08.480 --> 00:38:08.639
Yeah.
00:38:08.880 --> 00:38:10.639
Um I didn't know what I didn't know.
00:38:10.639 --> 00:38:23.039
I was just doing whatever I was doing, and I uh there was a certain like fearlessness and you know, just being kind of oblivious that I want to keep.
00:38:23.039 --> 00:38:30.880
And I sort of do purposefully, like, you know, it doesn't really matter if people really like the record or really hate it.
00:38:30.880 --> 00:38:42.960
I try to just like drown that out and just do whatever I w wanna do and like stay like as connected as I can to why I make music and it's really it's for me.
00:38:42.960 --> 00:38:50.320
So if it's so if I'm doing it and it's for someone else, then I know I've like already lost the plot, and that I don't think I'm at danger in danger of that.
00:38:50.320 --> 00:38:54.480
I'm I'm pretty strong-willed, but I just have to like remind myself of that every time.
00:38:54.480 --> 00:38:56.719
I'm like, you're still just doing it for you.
00:38:56.719 --> 00:38:58.880
It's still just a way of surprising yourself.
00:38:58.880 --> 00:39:08.000
It still doesn't really matter what other people say, as long as you can kind of look at yourself in the mirror and feel like you've done what you needed to do.
00:39:08.320 --> 00:39:09.119
That is great.
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:10.079
That I love that.
00:39:10.079 --> 00:39:16.239
Like it's um do you you sort of say, you know, with with age, it does get a little bit harder to do that, you know.
00:39:16.239 --> 00:39:27.920
I mean, I guess like um, like with anything, like when we start, we don't necessarily have the uh external like audience and and you know, record labels or whatever.
00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:33.840
So it's a lot easier to just experiment because it's all just play, really, in a way, you know, and learning.
00:39:33.840 --> 00:39:38.480
And then later on it does become a little bit harder to with these external things.
00:39:38.480 --> 00:39:41.920
What do you do to check in with yourself?
00:39:42.320 --> 00:39:50.719
Well, I mean, I really just but because I really write the songs alone for the most part, it's just a lot of being alone.
00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:51.519
Yeah.
00:39:51.840 --> 00:39:54.559
Um, and that can be really hard.
00:39:54.559 --> 00:40:03.679
Like, I I've been thinking a lot lately about my friend who always kind of says, like, for him, it's practicing, but for me, I kind of extend it to everything else.
00:40:03.679 --> 00:40:07.760
It's like it's about facing yourself, and it's true.
00:40:07.760 --> 00:40:14.000
And I think that's how it is with practicing, that's how it is, that's how it is with recording, that's how it is with writing music, I think.
00:40:14.000 --> 00:40:18.079
And you just kind of have to be brave enough to face yourself.
00:40:18.079 --> 00:40:25.440
And as long as I do that, then you know, something something will come out of it that I feel like I can be proud of.
00:40:25.440 --> 00:40:28.639
But if I'm just kind of yeah, I don't even know how it would go through the motions.
00:40:28.639 --> 00:40:31.599
I'd I just I I'm not able to, I I can't do it.
00:40:31.599 --> 00:40:38.719
I wish I could, I think I would be maybe further along in my career, but I just I I can't yeah, yeah, I yeah.
00:40:41.360 --> 00:40:57.519
And so I want to get onto the top topic of experimental, and and then when we talked, mentioned you mentioned earlier on you said quote unquote on experimental, and it feels like in a lot of ways, like there's a sort of conception of what experimental music is.
00:40:57.519 --> 00:41:00.079
Like sometimes your music gets called experimental.
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:08.159
I guess like talking to you, like I guess like a lot of the processes in terms of like how you put music together is kind of experimental.
00:41:08.159 --> 00:41:23.199
Um, and to a listener, you know, like hearing the way it all melds together might be, but there's also sort of a very like academic European kind of view of like the the do's and don'ts of of experimental.
00:41:23.199 --> 00:41:41.360
And I was wanting to know what your your like where you are at at the moment with that, like say when people call your music experimental or whatever, do you feel like a sense of connection or a sense of like having to say yes, baths or anything like that?
00:41:42.239 --> 00:41:51.840
Yeah, I mean, I I really kind of clung to that title for much of my career because I wanted a sense of freedom to kind of grow and be whoever I wanted to be.
00:41:51.840 --> 00:41:53.920
And that really worked.
00:41:53.920 --> 00:41:56.960
I wasn't sure if it would, but it really did.
00:41:56.960 --> 00:41:59.039
Um, and I feel really grateful for that.
00:41:59.039 --> 00:42:07.039
Like I really feel like I can I can do whatever I need to do, and people will kind of, well, hopefully they have at least so far, followed me there.
00:42:07.039 --> 00:42:22.320
Um, and I I think for the first time I'm really thinking about what I want in a more active way, rather than sort of passively receiving opportunities or passively kind of thinking about my career.
00:42:22.320 --> 00:42:28.480
It's taken me like a decade to kind of understand that I'm actually doing this and it's a career.
00:42:28.480 --> 00:42:31.840
And I'm like, oh, this is a career, huh?
00:42:31.840 --> 00:42:32.880
That's where I am.
00:42:32.880 --> 00:42:33.280
Yeah.
00:42:33.280 --> 00:42:34.400
Yeah, this is where I am.
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:38.400
I guess I've toured the world making money, doing this thing.
00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:39.360
It is a career.
00:42:39.360 --> 00:42:45.039
But I'm really thinking about what I want out of that and how I want to, you know, construct that.
00:42:45.039 --> 00:42:59.840
I'm thinking about who I have, you know, representing me, like how I'm interfacing with the world, who I want my audience to be, how I want to construct a career, what I want to be doing that I'm not doing, all of those things.
00:42:59.840 --> 00:43:05.519
I'm kind of like really just taking stock of it and really thinking about it in a different kind of way.
00:43:05.519 --> 00:43:24.559
And the kind of experimental label sometimes can feel limiting because I think there's a sense of like experimental music being for a niche audience and you know, being disconnected from the world and all of those things and and being purely formal and like all of these things.
00:43:24.559 --> 00:43:26.960
And I don't know if I'm really interested in that.
00:43:26.960 --> 00:43:31.199
And I think there's a lot of value in that, and I I love to see music like that.
00:43:31.199 --> 00:43:33.519
Like it's it's my jam, I'm into it.
00:43:33.519 --> 00:43:40.400
Um, and you know, if I you know, if someone had a gun to my head, I'd be like, Yeah, okay, like I am.
00:43:40.400 --> 00:43:44.880
Um, but I, you know, I say provocative things like, you know, experimental music is over.
00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:59.760
To be provocative, but also, but also, you know, as kinda kind of thought experiment and also to think about what mechanisms exist or don't for that genre of music, who's included and who isn't included, like what does that actually mean?
00:43:59.760 --> 00:44:08.880
And I've been thinking a lot just about, you know, what models there are for me and the sort of career I want to have and how I want to be in the world.
00:44:08.880 --> 00:44:13.679
And there are very few people like me who have been able to create a career like that.
00:44:13.679 --> 00:44:29.199
Like few women, few black women, few women of color really that are able to be sort of like experimental and hard to pin down and nebulous and like really kind of create a career that they can, you know, live off of and that can materially change their lives off of that.
00:44:29.199 --> 00:44:37.679
And I can think of lots of other people who have, but in terms of like people who look like me and are, you know, that like have the have a background like me.
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:41.039
Like I don't know if I have many models.
00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:48.159
And so I'm really seriously thinking about that and what that would mean to be able to do that.
00:44:48.159 --> 00:44:50.559
And it's a little scary because I'm like, I don't know.
00:44:50.559 --> 00:45:03.360
And that's kind of where Plata Morgana comes in because I'm like looking at my career and at my life from 50,000 feet, and I'm like, okay, what where am I?
00:45:03.360 --> 00:45:04.239
Can I do this?
00:45:04.239 --> 00:45:09.519
Can I do this in this climate where you know, where fascism is on the rise?
00:45:09.519 --> 00:45:13.519
Like, can am I the person that's gonna be able to like make a career in this moment?
00:45:13.519 --> 00:45:17.199
You know, like that's a really that's a that's a tall order that's really hard.
00:45:17.199 --> 00:45:25.760
And so, you know, glass ceiling comes out of that, like all of that, like it's sort of I'm really grappling with that in in general, and that's kind of the basis of the record.
00:45:26.079 --> 00:45:26.400
Yeah.
00:45:26.400 --> 00:45:33.199
So so uh just for the benefit of anyone that doesn't know Fata Morgana is a kind of mirage.
00:45:33.199 --> 00:46:06.719
Um and it's striking what you say there, but was there like a sort of a moment where you kind of connected the these feelings that you had and where you're at putting into the album with using Fata Morgana, this kind of idea of like I think of like desert mirages, like isn't it because I'm not too sure, but isn't it where like the skyline you can't quite see where like the skyline is, or there's like you know, things have the illusion of hovering above the ground, like say like classically, like in a desert where people see like a kind of a mirage of something.
00:46:06.719 --> 00:46:15.280
Was there a point where you felt that okay, this is it, this image, this concept really represents where I'm at?
00:46:16.000 --> 00:46:17.599
I mean, it came fairly late.
00:46:17.599 --> 00:46:20.239
I was really struggling with the title with this one.
00:46:20.239 --> 00:46:26.800
I I asked everybody, I asked everybody I possibly could.
00:46:26.800 --> 00:46:41.599
And I did these sessions with my friend Rollin James, and we were we were just like we're sitting there, we ordered some food in Nicholas Box, and we we we sat there and we ate food and like blessed their hearts.
00:46:41.599 --> 00:46:47.920
They were like they were they really were helping me so much and like went through, printed out the lyrics.
00:46:47.920 --> 00:46:50.800
We're like, we were like doing sessions and really thinking about it.
00:46:50.800 --> 00:46:53.440
And I I don't know what I would do with that that support.
00:46:53.440 --> 00:46:57.920
And I, you know, and then after that, I was like, I still need more help, I don't know what to do.
00:46:57.920 --> 00:47:02.000
And I would talk to people on like that would just meet about it.
00:47:02.000 --> 00:47:04.559
I'm like, do you have any ideas for record title?
00:47:04.559 --> 00:47:11.840
I asked the internet and I was like, if anyone can think of a title, you'll get into all my shows for free for the next 50 years.
00:47:11.840 --> 00:47:13.280
Like, I just need help.
00:47:13.280 --> 00:47:22.320
Um, and then I and in the back of my mind, I had, you know, I was thinking about mirages and I was thinking about Vata Morgana, and I was like, I don't know.
00:47:22.320 --> 00:47:33.519
And I had a dinner, I forget who with, and um, I happened to run into two people that I collaborated with on the pet rock video.
00:47:33.519 --> 00:47:36.880
And it was really great to see them.
00:47:36.880 --> 00:47:40.480
And I was like, I'm really struggling, I don't know what to do.
00:47:40.480 --> 00:47:50.320
And they sent me uh, I forget what name it was, it was something else that was like related to a mirage, and then I was like, oh my god, Fatua Morgana, that was the answer the whole time.
00:47:50.320 --> 00:48:01.199
Like I already had this thought, I already had thought this, and that was already what it was, but it like really took an outside person, like thinking about mirages and telling me to for me to be like, you know what?
00:48:01.199 --> 00:48:03.519
Yeah, that was a good, that was a good idea.
00:48:03.519 --> 00:48:14.159
So I'm like really grateful to them because I don't know if I would have like returned to it without them, um, like without accidentally running into them, without texting them and telling them about my naming issues.
00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:14.880
So yeah.
00:48:15.199 --> 00:48:16.960
Yeah, that's so that's so good, isn't it?
00:48:16.960 --> 00:48:20.960
There's some there's something that connects that in my mind with the with the cab driver situation as well.
00:48:20.960 --> 00:48:28.880
It's kind of sort of like the randomness of of you know, get bringing us back to experimental and John Cage and whatever, you know.
00:48:29.199 --> 00:48:29.440
Yeah.
00:48:31.360 --> 00:48:40.239
But I think sometimes people miss the thing about John Cage that I think people miss is that like you mentioned about the kind of formalism that goes on with like the perception of experimental music.
00:48:40.239 --> 00:48:54.639
But what I get from John Cage, and I wouldn't say I sit down and listen to like silence much or ever, really, but is just it was more of like a kind of a method for freeing yourself of these things than than constraining.
00:48:54.960 --> 00:49:02.159
Totally, totally, and how you know he sort of like taught himself so much and like gave himself an education.
00:49:02.159 --> 00:49:11.840
I mean, I there's so much about John Cage that I feel like is so interesting, but like he really, you know, was kind of like self-motivated in this kind of interesting way.
00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:12.960
Yeah.
00:49:12.960 --> 00:49:24.000
So I feel like where where you're at at the moment, where do you feel uh what do you feel the album has made possible for you but wasn't possible beforehand?
00:49:26.079 --> 00:49:31.679
Oh I don't know if I can answer that yet.
00:49:31.679 --> 00:49:40.880
I mean, a lot of the questions that I'm asking on the record are directly related to that question in some ways, right?
00:49:40.960 --> 00:49:44.559
So is it a bit too new to do that, yeah?
00:49:44.639 --> 00:49:46.159
But that but I'm really thinking about that.
00:49:46.159 --> 00:49:48.239
I'm like, okay, what's gonna happen this time around?
00:49:48.239 --> 00:49:51.599
Like, how do I, you know, how do I do this?
00:49:51.599 --> 00:49:57.280
And yeah, I feel like I really learn about a record once it's lived in the world for a while.
00:49:57.440 --> 00:49:57.599
Yeah.
00:49:57.840 --> 00:50:01.280
And I get feedback from people and I have conversations about it.
00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:05.760
And it, you know, it it sort of in some ways ends up being a kind of exposure therapy.
00:50:05.760 --> 00:50:10.880
Like I'm I'm really kind of wondering on this record, like when do I really listen to myself?
00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:12.480
When do I take the input of others?
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:17.760
Like how do I um, you know, how do I construct this career?
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:22.239
Like, you know, like when do you listen to when is society actually right?
00:50:22.239 --> 00:50:23.760
When do you push back against it?
00:50:23.760 --> 00:50:27.280
Like all of those things, you know, all of those negotiations.
00:50:27.280 --> 00:50:30.000
And I'll kind of see how it all plays out.
00:50:30.000 --> 00:50:37.360
But I I generally try to make music about the things that feel most pressing, and the things that are most pressing are usually the things that scare me.
00:50:37.360 --> 00:50:40.079
So, you know, it'll be a process.
00:50:40.079 --> 00:50:43.440
Um, but I don't know, doing the interviews is also part of it.
00:50:43.440 --> 00:50:47.280
It really, it really does end up being a little bit like like therapy or something.
00:50:48.480 --> 00:50:51.679
I mean, it's the same for me on the other side of this as well.
00:50:51.679 --> 00:50:59.199
Like I I it's like checking in with like my artistic side, and like, yeah, okay, yeah, that's that's where, yeah, that's I yeah.
00:50:59.199 --> 00:51:08.639
And and do you do you feel like because obviously because it's like um these kind of ideas they take a while to form these reactions and feelings, they take a while to form, like as you say.
00:51:08.639 --> 00:51:23.440
And of course, you know, we live our lives, and so by the time perhaps they've formed, maybe like um you're in another place anyway, or maybe they also the ideas that are forming contribute to this other place that you might be in.
00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:39.360
But are you patient with like the way ideas and uh answers can like not necessarily come when you want to, you know, maybe they they appear in the back of a taxi, or maybe they appear pumping into a friend, or maybe they don't appear and something else comes along with that.
00:51:39.360 --> 00:51:43.519
Do you are you vo are you good at like I wouldn't say resigning?
00:51:43.519 --> 00:51:56.480
That sounds like a negative word, but like leaving things to to this sort of element of chance and just elements of like, okay, that's just gotta run its course, or do you go, I need to know?
00:51:57.440 --> 00:51:58.880
Uh it really depends.
00:51:58.880 --> 00:52:03.920
I sometimes I feel really patient about it, and I I like that process.
00:52:03.920 --> 00:52:08.400
I like you know, answers only being revealed in the world.
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:21.280
It's like this idea of the artist having this like beautiful, rarefied time of you know, luxuriously sitting in their studio for five hours and creating the perfect song.
00:52:21.280 --> 00:52:23.760
Like that, I I've never really had that.
00:52:23.760 --> 00:52:28.079
And so I like spend a lot of time on the subway, like thinking about work.
00:52:28.079 --> 00:52:42.000
And that's when I make my best work, you know, it's sort of like being in the world, being in motion, being like reacting to things, also out of necessity, also because I have a very demanding, um, yeah, very public job.
00:52:42.000 --> 00:52:44.880
So, you know, I've never really been able to do it that way.
00:52:44.880 --> 00:52:55.840
And so it feels nice for you know the conditions to be such that I have to be in the world and interact with the world, and that's how I make my my work really and how I do a lot of my thinking.
00:52:55.840 --> 00:52:59.039
But also I get impatient sometimes for sure.
00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:14.320
Yeah, and and just finally, if you could go back to like the younger you, like the you that is just starting to kind of play the mistakes and find the mistakes on on the piano, is is there something that you would tell yourself?
00:53:16.800 --> 00:53:22.880
Oh no, I would probably just take notes, honestly.
00:53:22.880 --> 00:53:25.519
Yeah, that's a brilliant okay, yeah.
00:53:25.519 --> 00:53:34.559
I don't know if I would I would tell her anything, I would maybe tell her to like be less um anxious about the future.
00:53:34.559 --> 00:53:39.760
Says someone from 2026, but yeah, yeah.
00:53:39.760 --> 00:53:49.599
Well, anxious about her creative future, you know, that like you will, you know, I had very, very modest goals for myself growing up, like extremely modest.
00:53:49.599 --> 00:53:54.079
And when I started this project, like the most modest, and I've I've achieved them all.
00:53:54.079 --> 00:54:02.000
Um and just letting her know that like that will happen and that she should maybe focus more on dreaming big.
00:54:02.239 --> 00:54:02.719
Yeah.
00:54:02.719 --> 00:54:04.400
Tarja, thank you so much.
00:54:04.400 --> 00:54:05.039
That was great.
00:54:05.039 --> 00:54:05.440
Thank you.
00:54:05.679 --> 00:54:06.480
Thank you.
00:54:11.199 --> 00:54:23.039
Okay, so that was me, Paul Hamford, talking with Tarja Chic, who records as Lorraine, and the album, Fatima Morgana, is out now on Mexican Summer.
00:54:23.039 --> 00:54:26.559
Thank you so much, Tarja, for sharing your time and thoughts with me there.
00:54:26.559 --> 00:54:29.519
I loved having that chat and I hope you enjoyed listening to it.
00:54:29.519 --> 00:54:32.639
Um, yeah, so thanks for listening this month to Lost and Sound.
00:54:32.639 --> 00:54:35.039
We'll be back next month for another episode.
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:39.360
Uh, the music that you heard at the beginning, at the end of the show, is by Tom Giddens.
00:54:39.360 --> 00:54:42.800
And if you like the show and you haven't already, please do give it a subscribe.
00:54:42.800 --> 00:54:45.280
It really, really, really does mean a lot.
00:54:45.280 --> 00:54:51.679
Um, you can follow me on Instagram at Paul Hamptford and you can follow the Substack at Lost and Sound.
00:54:51.679 --> 00:54:56.639
I hope whatever you're doing, you're having a fucking great one today, and I'll chat to you soon.