WEBVTT
00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:12.080
Hello and welcome back to Long Arm Stapler, a podcast about zines.
00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:13.279
I'm your host, Beyra.
00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:20.960
Today, this episode, I am joined by Tony Pecchia, who is the main brain behind Chicken Milkshake Zines.
00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:26.559
Chicken Milkshake Zines started as a zine review blog way back in the early 2010s.
00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:31.679
Tony was just starting to make her own zines around this time, but didn't feel super confident about it yet.
00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:39.280
So she just went to Zine Fest, traded with people, and reviewed their zines on the blog, and sometimes left zines in public places for people to find.
00:00:39.439 --> 00:00:42.240
She made a few friends this way and gained a lot of confidence.
00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:48.399
Now, Chicken Milkshake is the name that Tony publishes her zines under.
00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:53.520
Many of her zines are comics that feature a cast of characters known as the Chicken Milkshake family.
00:00:53.759 --> 00:01:00.399
Members of the family are Good Tony and Bad Tony, Bok Choi the Red Hen, Flower Cat, and Strawberry Ghost.
00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:07.760
She also has a series called Spider Veins, starring a spider named Greg who is unlearning his toxic masculinity.
00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:12.560
Greg is Tony's dad's name, but she absolutely wasn't thinking of him at all when she created the character.
00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:16.159
Her dad is a great guy who she doesn't really think of as Greg, just Dad.
00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:20.799
Out in the real world, Tony is a high school culinary arts teacher.
00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:22.480
Yes, that's a thing.
00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:32.400
When she's not barking at teenagers in the teaching kitchen, she is hosting zine workshops, readings, and open mics at Rock Paper Scissors Collective, an arts organization in Oakland, California.
00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:35.359
She is also a hopeless jock who loves swimming and biking.
00:01:35.519 --> 00:01:36.480
Hello, Tony.
00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:38.719
Hello, yeah, that's that's me.
00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:46.879
I am I am the hopeless jock who loves zines and uh teaches in a culinary arts kitchen at a high school.
00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:49.359
And uh yeah, loves to make zines.
00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:50.480
Hell yeah.
00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:52.719
Um, yeah, let's get into it.
00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:54.799
We have a bunch of stuff to talk about.
00:01:54.879 --> 00:02:00.480
I'd love to also like I'd love to talk about your own work as well as um your work with RPS.
00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:03.760
But let's start with how did you get into making zines?
00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:13.919
Well, I got into making zines actually because I was trying to get my writing published uh when I was in my early to mid-20s.
00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:25.680
I had felt like I'd been graduated from college for a while, and I did a lot of writing and creative writing, and I was trying to get published and was just just kind of kept hitting a wall.
00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:33.360
Um, as far as I got I got a few things uh published, but not really, I wasn't really getting the response that I expected.
00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:43.039
And I was just like, I know that I'm a good writer, like so I'm just got tired of asking for permission um and started printing things myself.
00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:55.199
And uh, and then I quickly went from that to doing more visual art, which I had kind of dabbled in but never really done much of, at least not seriously.
00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:59.199
And the very first zine I ever made was called You Are Not Special.
00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:20.639
Uh, and it was just various collages and visual art pieces and visual representations of the phrase you are not special, which was something that I'd been internalizing a lot, um, having grown up in a culture of participation trophies and now coming face to face with the real world.
00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:29.759
Uh, so it was kind of my way of coming to terms with that, uh, putting it on paper, and uh, and I took it to San Francisco Zine Fest.
00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:35.680
I having no idea, I didn't know anything about zine culture or that trading was a thing.
00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:38.639
Um, but it turned out yes, trading is a thing.
00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:44.400
And I so I printed a bunch of copies and just went around to people's tables and talked to them and traded zines with them.
00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:49.919
And then I came home with an armful of zines, feeling very inspired, and I was like, maybe this is something I could do.
00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:51.840
Maybe I should make more zines.
00:03:52.240 --> 00:04:03.120
And I think it was it was either a year or two years before I finally felt confident enough where I was like, I have a body of work, I can apply to table at a zine fest.
00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:07.360
And um, and I did, and I got accepted, and I've been doing it ever since.
00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:09.680
What was your first zine fest that you tabled?
00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:12.159
It was eBabes 2016.
00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:12.960
Yeah.
00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:14.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:18.800
It was at the um at the David Brouwer Center, which is uh still still where it's held.
00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:24.639
It's been held in other places since then, on and off, um, at other venues, but that's where it's been.
00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:28.639
That's where it was when I first tabled, and that's where it was last year and the year before.
00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:32.160
Um that was the first year that I organized it, it was 2016.
00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:33.279
That's when I started.
00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:33.759
Yeah.
00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:34.399
Yeah.
00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:36.480
Oh I didn't know that.
00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:37.120
Great.
00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:40.240
Yeah, that was a big year for eBabes.
00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:41.600
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:43.920
Yeah, I love e-babes.
00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:47.920
They're they've been, you know, we've collaborated with them with uh rock, paper, scissors a lot.
00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:50.879
Uh, we used to do the zine picnics in uh in late summer.
00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:55.360
We haven't done those in a while, but I think I want to yeah, try try doing those again because those were fun.
00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:56.480
Bring them back.
00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:57.920
Bring them back.
00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:05.519
So that's cool that you like kind of were so inspired by SF Zine Fest.
00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:06.959
Shout out to SF Zine Fest.
00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:10.079
Great people, great organizing, great fest.
00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:21.199
Um, and that you were just like so inspired that you just kind of you know developed your own body of work and were like, oh yeah, I can table too.
00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:25.920
Um, how was that experience for you, your first time tabling?
00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:36.639
Uh, it was also very positive because I got a very uh I I sold a lot, I talked to a lot of people, I traded a lot, um, made a lot of new friends.
00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:43.839
And uh weirdly, it was my first experience with meeting internet friends in person.
00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:51.279
Um, I had always I grew, I think like you, I kind of came of age in the in the MySpace era.
00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:57.439
Um, and uh definitely having a lot of online friends was was a flex.
00:05:57.759 --> 00:06:05.519
And uh and I kind of I was like, if you have a lot of internet friends, it means you're either really, really cool or really, really uncool.
00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:14.879
Um and that was kind of always, but I had never been like cool enough online where people would see me in person and recognize me.
00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:31.279
And that that actually happened last night um when I was at a show at Eli's, but it happened for the first time in um at the David Brouwer Center at eBabes, and somebody came up to me and was just like, hi, and I and I was like, hi, and then they're like, I'm, you know, and they said their name.
00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:34.079
And I was like, oh my gosh, hi, like internet friend.
00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:36.160
Um, so that was cool.
00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:41.279
And uh I think at the time, I'm trying to remember how many zines I had on my table.
00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:45.519
I want to say anywhere from four to six.
00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:52.560
Uh, and I understood that, and I've I've definitely seen it before that some people come and they only have one zine, and that's that's totally fine.
00:06:52.720 --> 00:07:01.680
Um, you you do you, but I felt like I was like, I need to have a couple, I need to have a body of work, um, just things that are all over the place.
00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:06.240
So I had um my travel zine I did, uh Loner Chicks.
00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:08.480
Uh, I think that was the launch of it.
00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:10.959
I think that was the launch of Loner Chicks.
00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:14.879
I had that one, I had a poetry one, I had You Are Not Special.
00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:18.800
Um, and I had, I don't think I'd started doing many comics yet at that point.
00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:19.839
I think I had one.
00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:22.639
It was this one I made called Germs Everywhere.
00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:29.199
Um, and it was about like germophobia and wanting to leave the planet and blast off into space because there's too many germs.
00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:38.000
Uh, and that was, and I had drawn a little character that kind of looked like me, but um, Tony versus Tony wasn't a thing yet.
00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:47.120
Uh, that became a thing a year or two later when I first started drawing those uh kind of spy versus spy comics, those two versions of me that I do.
00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:54.480
Um but uh yeah, I think it helped having more than one thing on my table.
00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:59.279
Um, because when people came by and were looking at my stuff, they were like, okay, this is nice.
00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:00.480
Ooh, but I want this.
00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:07.360
Um again, like no not hating at all on anyone who only has one zine or not telling them they're doing it wrong or anything like that.
00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:12.399
But that's I think that's what helped me personally was having a lot of stuff.
00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:17.120
And uh when people came up and approached me, I was like, oh hey, I have this and this and this and this.
00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:30.560
Something and that way it's like you have something for everyone, kind of, or like something for most people, you know, like they'll see something and be like, okay, that's not up my alley, but then something else on your table will grab their eye and they'll be like, ooh, yeah.
00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:31.839
Yeah, exactly.
00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:33.679
And that's and that's what you do too.
00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:36.639
Your table like always always has a ton of stuff on it.
00:08:36.799 --> 00:08:44.000
Um, and I I have I I'm pretty sure I have almost every single zine that that you've made, at least like since I've been going to fests.
00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:48.240
Um and then when I hear you have a new one, I'm just like, let's go, let's go, new Mayrazine.
00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:54.879
I've got a couple new ones, um, but now that I'm not on Instagram, it's like a secret, I guess.
00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:55.919
Yeah.
00:08:56.159 --> 00:09:00.000
Don't tell anyone I've got new zines um available on my Kofi.
00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:01.200
Just kidding.
00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:04.240
I mean, they are, but like this isn't an ad for that.
00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:08.639
Um so I'll I'll gat I'll gas up your Kofi.
00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:09.840
I'll do that for you.
00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:10.720
Thank you.
00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:11.279
Yeah.
00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:15.120
Um so what inspires you to keep making zines?
00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:19.600
It's like what doesn't inspire me?
00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:32.320
Any it I just have I feel like almost every day I have an idea for something, and I just have to add it to my little, you know, it's a list of a messy, disorganized list of things in my notes app.
00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:36.159
This could be a zine, that could be a zine, anything can be a zine.
00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:40.320
I think that's what people like you and me are always shouting from the rooftops.
00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:42.639
Anything can be a zine, and a zine can be anything.
00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:44.080
That's the refrain, right?
00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:44.639
Yeah.
00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:55.759
Um but it uh it's hard not to just be like, I want to make everything and be like, you know what, let's do a little quality over quantity.
00:09:56.399 --> 00:10:06.399
Um I had I had this idea when I was, I think, 26 or 27 when I've been making zines for a little bit.
00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:10.639
I was like, I want to have made a hundred zines before I turn 30.
00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:19.759
Um and then so I did the math, and I was like, okay, for that to happen, I need to make one zine a week uh until I turn 30.
00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:28.480
Um, because I have exactly it just right around that time, I was like, okay, I had there there happen to be exactly a hundred weeks before I turn 30.
00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:30.240
So I need to make a zine every week.
00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:32.159
And I was like, you know what, that's possible.
00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:33.360
I can do that.
00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:39.360
And then I started thinking about it and I was like, would that would they really be my best work though?
00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:43.519
Would they really be something that I would want out there in the world forever?
00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:48.159
Because once you put something out in the world, it's just there and it's and you know, it's got your name on it.
00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:54.399
Uh and so I was like, you know, I don't think, I think that I want to do the the quality over quantity thing.
00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:55.919
And maybe that was just an excuse.
00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:57.440
Maybe I was just being lazy.
00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:01.279
Maybe I totally should have done that 100 zines before 30 thing.
00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:03.519
Um, because that was that was a big deal.
00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:16.879
It's like, oh my gosh, when I, you know, I definitely internalized that whole, you know, once you turn 30, your life's over and you get all boring and you have to be an adult, and now that I'm like kind of pushing 40, it's like, oh yeah.
00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:21.919
I yeah, I've definitely done a lot of growing up in my 30s.
00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:40.799
And uh I don't know, maybe, maybe there is a little part of me that's like, I should have just hunkered down and done that hundred zine challenge, because I I do like a challenge and I do um like I do a lot of like self-set deadlines and limits just to keep myself accountable, keep myself going.
00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:51.360
Um, like for example, the the comics I draw, you may or may not have noticed that for a very long time they were only in three colors, not not including white.
00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:54.799
They were only um red, black, and green.
00:11:55.519 --> 00:12:04.480
Um, and that and I started doing that because I had started drawing with whiteboard markers that happened to just on white computer paper that happened to be red, black, and green.
00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:12.000
And then when I graduated to like using the iPad and you know, getting nicer markers, it's like, no, this is this is my thing.
00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:17.600
Um, and then I and then I did that for a long time and I was like, no, I can't do this because it's not red, black, and green.
00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:23.600
And I'm I'm I'm you know starting to starting to branch out a little, and people would ask me, why can't you use other colors?
00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:25.519
And I'm like, I just I I just can't.
00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:26.639
I just I can't.
00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:29.519
Maybe someday I will, but right now it's red, black, and green.
00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:32.080
That's such a rude question, I think.
00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:36.720
Be like, why isn't your work more colorful or like why aren't you doing this?
00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:37.360
Yeah.
00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:40.799
Another thing they would ask me is why are your characters always naked?
00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:45.039
Of course, of course, everybody wants to know that, because they because they almost always are.
00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:48.799
Um, and the answer is number one, vulnerability.
00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:51.600
Number two, drawing clothes is hard.
00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:54.080
Number three, tits get attention.
00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:54.639
Okay.
00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:58.240
Number three is the number three is the one I just thought of the at the top of my head.
00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:02.559
But yeah, those first two definitely mostly drawing clothes is hard.
00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:05.519
And I feel like it's Oh, go ahead.
00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:06.080
Sorry?
00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:13.919
Yeah, it's I'm finally getting to the point of like drawing clothes where it's just like it's not, you know, a sleeve doesn't cling to the arm, it it hangs off, you know.
00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:18.960
It's like, oh, it's like okay sometimes, but you know, drawing movement in clothing and all that.
00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:19.919
Yeah.
00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:26.000
For those of us who are not trained artists, it uh, you know, and it's like, yeah.
00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:44.320
And that's that's another reason that I feel strongly about zines, is is that uh, you know, my art definitely is not uh, you know, it's not highbrow, it's not, I'm not a trained artist or an illustrator, and you know, I have my style is kind of, you know, look at it as be like, oh, this looks like a little kid drew it.
00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:47.919
And it's like, okay, well, so does peanuts, and everybody likes peanuts.
00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:49.440
So, and so does Kathy.
00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:54.960
Like, you know, all the all those newspaper comics we grew up with and loved, like, those comics look like shit.
00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:56.399
Like, can I swear?
00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:58.240
Am I allowed am I allowed to say bad words?
00:13:58.399 --> 00:13:58.559
Okay.
00:13:58.639 --> 00:13:58.799
Yeah.
00:13:58.960 --> 00:13:59.279
Yeah.
00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:05.919
Um, and I think Charles Schultz, like, people even told him, like, hey, you suck at drawing, you should stop drawing.
00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:07.279
Your drawings are ugly.
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:14.480
And he was like, Okay, they're I don't know what he said to that, but it's like, okay, no, you the point is you have your own style.
00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:17.759
Like, yeah, you have your own style that's recognizable.
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:22.399
I feel like if someone told him that peanuts look like shit, he would like, okay, but look at Snoopy.
00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:25.279
Like, how can you possibly say that to this man?
00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:26.080
Yeah.
00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:27.200
This man, this dog.
00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:28.639
Snoopy, Snoopy is a man.
00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:31.120
Yeah, yeah, I meant Snoopy in that scenario.
00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:34.000
Yeah, how can you possibly tell Snoopy that he looks like shit?
00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:34.559
Yeah.
00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:35.600
You can't.
00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:36.639
That's just rude.
00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:38.720
No, no, he's Snoopy.
00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:41.440
He's he's proud to be Snoopy.
00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:42.080
Yes.
00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:43.279
As he should be.
00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:44.559
Yeah.
00:14:45.440 --> 00:15:03.679
Um, so when you're making zines, I know earlier you said that you used to kind of draw on paper with like whiteboard markers and you've like graduated, I guess, to like iPad, but what is your general creative process like when you're making a zine or a comic?
00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:20.399
Yeah, so uh if I'm making a zine, it definitely starts with an idea um that I kind of build on, and I'll usually just like start kind of spitball word vomit typing about this is what I want this to be.
00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:29.039
Um, and then when it gets to the point of actually making the zine itself, I'll be like, okay, what what kind of zine is this gonna be?
00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:30.559
Is this gonna be a mini zine?
00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:41.919
Is this gonna be the half-folded eight and a half by eleven kind of zine, which is uh my favorite kind of zine to make, but also it's much more difficult because I am not good at the layout thing.
00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:44.879
Um, and then I'm like, okay, what's gonna go where?
00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:46.639
What's this gonna look like?
00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:56.480
Um if it's a comic, uh usually I will do a page, um, like what do you call this?
00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:58.879
Like a page by page outline.
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:05.600
So I'll be like, page one, this happens, page two, this happens, page three, this happens.
00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:17.440
And then depending on how many pages I end up with, when I start thinking about the layout for the zine itself, I'm like, okay, I have an odd number of pages, and so I need some filler.
00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:31.440
I need like an inside front cover image or an inside back cover image, or maybe this thing that happens in the comic, rather than just making it part of a really busy page, I can make it its own entire page.
00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:34.879
Boom, this big thing happens and it's an entire page.
00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:45.919
Um and uh if it's writing, if it's poetry, uh, if it's anything like that, I just write it and I'm like, it's however long it is.
00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:56.720
And if I need some filler pages because I end up with a weird number, then I'll do a photo or uh this zine is dedicated to this and this and this.
00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:10.319
Um actually when I did the You Are Not Special, my very my very first one, um, in the inside front cover it said, This zine is dedicated to, and it was I had written something and scratched it out with Sharpie.
00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:11.839
Because like that was the whole point.
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:17.200
It's like, no, this nobody's special, you're not special, I'm not special, this is dedicated to nobody.
00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:25.519
I was actually so dedicated to that idea for a while, it was like so stuck in my head that I got it tattooed inside my lip.
00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:26.079
Oh.
00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:28.079
Oh, you also have a lip tattoo?
00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:29.599
I do, I do.
00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:33.839
Nice, it's and it's mirrored so that only I can see.
00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:36.799
So like it's for me to see when I look in the mirror.
00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:37.359
Nice.
00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:44.559
I have mine says fuck it, but it's in my own handwriting, and it's like 14 years old at this point.
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:45.200
I know.
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:46.799
I haven't looked at mine in a long time.
00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:55.039
I'm looking at it in the camera, and all I can see is the because it says S N-A-Y, but all but backwards when I look in the mirror, it's Y-A-N-S.
00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:56.000
For you are not special.
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:59.119
But all I can see is the I can see the Y and an A.
00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:01.200
I that's that's all I can see right now.
00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:08.400
Surprisingly, only one dentist has ever commented on it, which makes me wonder how common lip tattoos are.
00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:16.799
They were definitely like very, very trendy for a while, so they probably see because be like Miley Cyrus got one and stuff, so that's or somebody like that, I think.
00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:17.279
Yeah.
00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:18.960
Yeah, so people were getting them.
00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:27.599
I've been like, I no dentist has ever commented on mine, which is great, like, because that would be embarrassing for me.
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:28.240
I don't know.
00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:35.920
Like, I had a tattoo artist comment on it one time because I told him about it, not because he was like looking in my mouth, but like he was like, Oh, okay.
00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:50.960
But it was like an inside joke with my best friend in high school, and we were both supposed to get them, and then she didn't get hers, and mine is so like they did such a good job, and it like healed so well that it's still like very dark and very noticeable.
00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:53.680
And one time my boss was like, Do you have a lip tattoo?
00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:55.279
And I was like, Yeah.
00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:56.799
Your boss saw that?
00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:59.920
Oh, so oh, is it like high uh high up enough that you can almost kind of see it?
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:02.559
Or yeah, when I smiled really, really big.
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:04.160
Um, yeah.
00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:09.680
So I was like, I had to show my boss my lip tattoo for when I was like 21.
00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:16.240
Well, I'll try to make you laugh sometime so I can see the fuck it, maybe.
00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:20.960
Um, okay, getting back to zines.
00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:32.480
Um, so I have I would love to know more about your work with Rock Paper Scissors Collective, um, and like a little bit about the organization.
00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:38.880
If you want to give a like a very brief history of it, or just talk about how you got involved.
00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:42.640
Um, yeah, I would love to do that.
00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:48.880
Um so I am on the uh the Rock, Paper, Scissors Zine Committee.
00:19:49.279 --> 00:20:05.119
Um, and we do, we are actually, I'm really glad that we're doing our pot that this podcast now because we are releasing a uh a new zine at just as an organization that's hopefully it's not gonna be monthly.
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:12.559
We we don't quite have the the bandwidth for that right now, but it's gonna probably be quarterly.
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.440
Um so yeah, that's I'll I'll talk about that.
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.880
Um that's something big that the zine committee is doing right now.
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:35.440
We're also gonna be working on uh digitizing our zine library um and uh just having having like an online archive uh because we have an enormous zine library, and it should be more than just a bunch of boxes of zines.
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:45.200
Um and as far as I know, people have been trying to do that for years and years and years, and it looks like it might be finally happening.
00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:47.359
Um so that's good.
00:20:47.519 --> 00:21:00.319
But yeah, Rock, Paper, Scissors, um, for those of you who don't know, is a uh arts organization, uh nonprofit in Oakland that has been uh around for 21 years now.
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:04.720
I believe it was 04 uh that it started.
00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:14.799
Um and we have uh uh we do workshops, we do um gallery shows, uh zine work nights.
00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:24.559
Uh I really like hosting uh open mic nights, poetry readings, um, performance kind of stuff, um, zine readings.
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:26.880
I I really like that kind of stuff.
00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:48.640
Um and last year we had a we had this really fun Halloween party um where we had all these just different craft stations, just different crafts you could do, um like caramel apples, uh block printing, which which I do a lot of, so I've I kind of uh oversaw that.
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:52.400
Um the uh what is it called?
00:21:52.720 --> 00:22:01.839
Dyeing the um coffee filters to look like uh big uh flowers, um make Yeah, making uh trash art.
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:07.680
We have a volunteer um who's really into the repurposing um and that kind of art.
00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:17.759
Um but yeah, a lot, yeah, and uh a very robust uh history uh especially of of gallery shows.
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.880
Um art uh it used to be monthly art shows.
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:25.839
We're in a bit of a we're in a bit of a rut right now because we're looking for a new physical space.
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:32.000
Um we're currently just a collective, we don't have a gallery space anymore as of about a month ago.
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:39.839
Um so we're gonna be hosting things at various other locations until we get our own spot again.
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:50.960
Um and uh yeah, it was it was nice for a while to have that, to have that gallery to uh to have shows in, art shows and uh and events.
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:57.920
Um because that's that's really that's really why I joined was because I wanted to like I wanted to organize events.
00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:08.559
Um and I got involved maybe on I I I was kind I was volunteering maybe five or six years ago.
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:23.440
I would go in on Saturdays and help uh former zine director uh before you, you're also former zine director, but former zine director Alex Sodari, I would go in there and help them uh organize the zine library.
00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:26.400
And it was really, we would just like listen to music and read zines.
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:40.319
Um and then uh yeah, and I went to just various events over the years, and then I started wanting to really get involved in this would have been around 2023.
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:56.160
I actually went to a um for my former job as a chocolatier, I went to a chocolate event where I was vending for my for my work and bumped into somebody from Rock, Paper, Scissors and said, like, hey, we're looking for a new zine director.
00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:58.079
And I was like, okay, I'll do it.
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:11.759
And then uh there's another person who joined who was who was had a little bit more um more time than I did, a little more energy than I did, and kind of became was the zine director for about a year and a half, and then it was me again.
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:23.200
Um I'm though I'm technically the zine director, there are only really three or four of us on the zine committee as a whole, so it's I can't and I can't do that all myself.
00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:27.119
So I don't even really I'm I'm kind of the director in name only.
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:30.000
I'm what guys, like I need I need help on this.
00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:33.920
Like, I'm don't don't think of me as your boss telling you what to do.
00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:38.480
I I need to swallow my pride on that and not be like, I'm the boss, listen to me.
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:41.119
It's like no, how how can we make this happen?
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:42.400
Like, I need your help.
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:48.960
Plus the whole I'm the boss, listen to me thing is antithetical to being a collective, which is which is in our name, after all.
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:53.680
Um, yeah, so we're collective, uh nonprofit.
00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:56.960
Uh during our members' meetings, we vote.
00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:10.880
Um, nobody has veto power or well, well, people have people can very, very strongly state that they feel strongly about something, but nobody actually has the power to say, no, we're not doing this.
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:12.880
Um we work through it.
00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:25.680
Um and uh yeah, I've been, I guess I've been a member for about, it must have been, I think it was early 2024 that I officially became a member.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:27.680
So yeah, about two years now.
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:33.119
Um that I've yeah, been a member, go to weekly meetings, voting on things.
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:34.960
Um, yeah.
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:37.440
Yeah, it's a great organization.
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:42.000
Um, like you mentioned, I was the zine director for about a year.
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:46.640
Um and it was it was great to be involved.
00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:48.240
I loved doing events.
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:54.000
Um, I wish that I had had a more robust zine committee because it was really hard to like get people.
00:25:54.240 --> 00:26:10.319
This was like early-ish during the pandemic, like so it was still hard to get people to like come to events and like get involved, and I was doing a lot of it on my own and I got burned out, but like really great organization with a lot of history.
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:20.480
Yeah, the history behind it is is really incredible, um, especially when it comes to really we have rock, paper, scissors to thank for Oakland First Fridays.
00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:23.599
Um, you and me know that, but people listening might not know that.
00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:29.279
So yeah, you see you see a rock, paper, scissors person say thank you for Oakland First Fridays.
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:40.319
Um But uh yeah, and for our 20th anniversary uh show, oh, something something else I should mention about the gallery shows is they're all group shows.
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:45.839
Um I've seen one that was two artists, but uh, but most of them are group.
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.079
The point is not just one artist.
00:26:48.400 --> 00:27:00.240
Um and uh I made a 20th anniversary zine for the for the 20th anniversary uh party that we had at the end of 2024 uh gallery show.
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:04.079
Um and I, yeah, and I I interviewed you for it, I think.
00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:29.759
Um you were in there, and uh, and it was it was great good just going through all this old stuff we have, old flyers, um talking to people who were who weren't really involved and had gone and gone on to do other things, but having them reach out and be like, hey, this is this is me, this is a picture of me hosting a homemade soap workshop in like 2011 or something.
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:32.880
Um so it was it was really cool to see all that.
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:38.880
Um and uh interview, I I really love doing interviews like a lot.
00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:42.640
Um, and I know you probably do too, because that's what we're doing right now.
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:45.680
Um, but uh yeah, I really love doing that.
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:58.960
Um so that was it it was very difficult for me, um, just because of mostly because of the formatting stuff, um, and also just making myself find time to do it in the in an increasingly busy life.
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:01.759
Um, we're all just getting busier, it seems.
00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:05.039
It's just the world we live in now.
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:14.400
I don't know if it's like a aging and growing up thing or if it's just we're all busier in general and there's ex more is expected of us than used to be.
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:16.319
Um that's certainly what it feels like.
00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:19.759
Um, but yeah, I got myself to do it.
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:20.720
I did it.
00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:37.680
Um it's uh currently I think we're sold out of those, but I think I will probably print a couple more for um in a couple weeks, the weekend of I believe, yeah, the weekend of March 28th and 29th, we're gonna be tabling at Dollfest.
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:38.559
Um, which will be.
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:39.920
Oh, this will go up after that.
00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:41.039
I'm sorry?
00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:42.880
This will go up after that.
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:44.559
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:45.839
This will go up after that.
00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:48.960
But anyway, I should print more of those scenes.
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:49.759
Yeah.
00:28:51.359 --> 00:29:08.480
Um, and also Rock Paper Scissors is the fiscal sponsor of Bay Area Queer Zine Fest, um, which I think is really cool because that gives us us, Queer Zine Fest as an organization, more like opportunities to get like grants and stuff, which I think is really cool and really special.
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:09.680
Yeah.
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:27.200
So it feels good to be pairing with an organization that one has such like a long history of arts advocacy in the Bay Area, and also two, like an organization that is close to my heart and that I've been involved with, and that feels really cool.
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:30.640
Yeah, we're we're happy to be paired with you as well.
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:41.039
I've been I've been to uh yeah, a few Bay Area Queer Zine Fests now, and I've enjoyed it very immensely every single time.
00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:47.119
So Yeah, we just announced we just announced our date for 2026.
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:49.119
Oh my gosh, when's it gonna be?
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:51.279
It's gonna be September 27th.
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:52.400
Okay, alright.
00:29:52.559 --> 00:30:00.559
I'll make sure that we yeah, because we dropped the ball on uh on tabling last year, so I will uh try to try to apply this year.
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:03.440
Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, I'll reach out.
00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:05.920
Um because you get you guys need a table.
00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:07.039
Thank you.
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:17.920
Um okay, so I've got some crowdsourced questions for you, including one from a conversation that I had with a previous guest, Bridget.
00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:26.559
Um, but the first question to ponder is what do you feel are some faux pas for a first-time zine maker?
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:29.200
Oh, that's interesting.
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:30.960
Thank you for asking me that.
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:35.359
I think it, well, it depends on what kind of faux pas you're talking about.
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:37.519
Are we talking about content?
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:43.920
Are we talking about uh the actual nitty-gritty physical stuff of printing a zine?
00:30:44.319 --> 00:31:06.240
Um I think a faux pas would probably be not doing a mock-up, not um taking a physical piece of paper, especially if you're a visual person, and like making just a fake zine, be like, this number is gonna be this page, that number is gonna be that page, you're this is gonna be here, that's gonna be there.
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:19.680
Um yeah, not doing that and not having just a ton of redundancy in general, because when it comes to things like that, uh if something can go wrong, it's gonna go wrong.
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:27.519
Um, also waiting till the last minute, right before a zine fest, to go to FedEx and print your stuff.
00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:31.440
Um total newbie move.
00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:37.119
If everything takes longer, the printer's gonna jam, your stuff's not gonna come out right.
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:46.000
Um, you know, if you've ever tried to print anything at any FedEx store, there's maybe one or two employees there and they're always swamped.
00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:52.720
So any getting anybody to help you is gonna take a long time, unless you're like extremely lucky.
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:59.359
And then by the time they get to you, they're either gonna be cranky or they're just not gonna know how to help you at all because they don't know.
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:13.440
So um, yeah, I think that yeah, not not having not leaving room for things to go wrong, I think is a faux pas because things things will go wrong.
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:15.119
Yeah, I agree.
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:21.279
It is funny that not making a mock-up was your first answer, though, because like I don't know if I've ever made a mock-up of a zine.
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:24.240
Like even when I was first starting, I was just like, I'm just gonna do it.
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:25.680
Like, who cares?
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:26.880
It'll be cool.
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:30.240
Um yeah, I've just never done it.
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:32.880
Okay, well, I mean that that works for you.
00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:37.759
Maybe you just have a your your brain works with that stuff a little better than mine does.
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:41.519
Yeah, like if I don't have it in my hands, it doesn't make sense to me.
00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:44.960
So yeah, that's just kind of that's just kind of the way I am.
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:46.240
For sure, yeah.
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:48.559
No, I'm not saying like any one way is better.
00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:52.720
I'm just like, oh, that's funny that that was like because that's just I don't know, I've never thought.
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:56.880
And people have come on the show before and been like, always do a rough draft.
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.279
And I've just been like, I don't wanna.
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:01.200
Like, no, no, yeah.
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:02.640
I just don't want to do it.
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:05.440
I just want to have the rough the rough draft is the zine.
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:08.079
It's in a the process is part of the result.
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:09.519
Yeah, I just want to bang it out.
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:11.200
Yeah.
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:13.039
Um bang it out.
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:15.200
That's a that's a that's a phrase I use a lot too.
00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:18.960
It's like, I'm just gonna bang this out, have it in front of me, and then I can change it.
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:22.640
Like, I need it in front of me in in order to like make any changes.
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:23.839
Yeah.
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:28.160
At least like I guess I guess in that way I do sometimes make a draft.
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:33.440
Cause like once I have it finished, I'll be like, Okay, is this good?
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:35.920
And like, how can I make it better?
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:38.559
That's the age-old question, isn't it?
00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:39.599
Is this good?
00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:39.920
Yeah.
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:41.200
Is this any good?
00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:46.960
But the thing about zines is that that's so subjective, and like, yep.
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:51.920
It could you could think it's trash, and somebody else is like, this is the best zine I've ever read.
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:56.640
Or conversely, yeah, you could be like, this is the best thing I've ever made.
00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:58.720
And somebody could be like, not for me.
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:00.559
I don't know, like, not into it.
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:01.440
Yeah.
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:09.360
No, I've definitely because of what I mentioned earlier, just because of my art style, some people are gonna see it and be like, This is amazing, I love your style.
00:34:09.519 --> 00:34:14.719
And then some people are gonna be like, this looks like a kid drew it, or this looks like somebody made it on MS Paint.
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:18.159
And it's just like, okay, well, if you don't like it, it's not for you.
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:20.559
You know, don't you don't like it.
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:26.400
There's plenty of other art out there for you to consume with your eyeballs and your money.
00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:29.599
So my stuff's not for you.
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:30.400
That's okay.
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:31.920
It's not it's not for everyone.
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:34.079
Not every thing is not for everyone.
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:35.519
Yeah, just move it along.
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:37.519
Go to the next table, leave me alone.
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:38.800
Yeah.
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:44.639
Um, okay, next question to ponder is how do you price your zines?
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:51.519
Um, I'm not, I'm honestly not the mathiest person.
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:55.360
Um, I've had to come to terms with that in my professional life.
00:34:55.519 --> 00:35:03.199
Um, both uh being a longtime pastry chef and now being a culinary arts high school teacher.
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:06.960
Um, I've had to start thinking about that stuff more than I used to.
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:18.320
Um and I really I I usually price them at about twice what it cost me to print them, unless it's gonna be outlandish.
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:27.360
So for example, the uh Rock, Paper, Scissors 20th Anniversary zine, it was a lot of pages and it was in color.
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:30.880
So it uh it was uh it cost a lot.
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:37.280
It cost, I want to say, close to 10 bucks to like print each one at uh at FedEx.
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:39.920
So I was like, okay, should I sell these for 20?
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:42.079
Is anybody gonna buy them for 20?
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.840
And I kind of sucked, I was like, nobody's gonna buy their for buy them for 20.
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:49.199
So I priced them at 15, which to me felt very steep.
00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:50.719
Um, but people bought them.
00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:52.320
People gladly bought them.
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:59.119
Um, so it's like, okay, maybe I should have made them 20, or maybe I, you know, no, no, or maybe it's a good thing I made them affordable.
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:04.880
It's like, okay, we didn't get back, we didn't get twice what we made, but at least we made a little bit.
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:11.280
We made uh, you know, broke even and then got half more of that back.
00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:16.559
Um but yeah, usually around, yeah, around twice what it costs me to print them.
00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:17.519
Okay.
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:18.639
Yeah.
00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:20.480
Yeah.
00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:28.159
Which, yeah, I but and then that said, I've never had a zine on my table that costs more than 10 bucks, other than the one I just mentioned.
00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:32.880
Um for my own personal stuff, yeah, I've never I've never had one that costs more than 10 bucks.
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:42.559
Um and you know, I know you go to zine fests and you see people with like really, really nice zines that are full on, you know, you pick, you're just like, this is not a zine, this is a book.
00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:46.400
Um, and a lot of times those are those are very expensive to print.
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:50.239
Those get sent, you know, to professional printers and they're bound.
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:55.760
Um and so those might sell for like 20, 25 bucks or sometimes even more.
00:36:56.239 --> 00:37:01.039
And uh, you know, if that's what works for that person, then they can go ahead and do it.
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:08.159
But I like I like my floppy, crappy, fuzzy dirtbag zines, and that's what I that's what I print.
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:17.519
Um I feel like to your point about the RPS zine being like, you know, 15 bucks or whatever, it was also a fundraiser, wasn't it?
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:18.880
So like Yeah.
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:21.679
So that like makes a little more sense.
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:27.840
Yeah, because it's like you're donating to us, you're donating to us, you know, being able to continue doing what we're doing.
00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:29.599
Yeah.
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:33.199
So um Oh go ahead.
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:35.760
Oh yeah, no, that's that's basically it.
00:37:36.960 --> 00:38:10.960
So the final question to ponder is actually a question that came up in the last episode with um my guest Bridget, and she was talking about digitizing her dad's like ancient zine collection, and how you know, some people who were making zines in the 90s never really fathomed that the internet would turn into what it is now, and they were putting, you know, their full names, their full addresses, like really personal thoughts in a in a zine and like putting it out there in physical form.
00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:17.679
And this is not like this context is not to like inform your answer or anything, it's just to like like give context to the question.
00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:23.840
But it's like how do you manage consent to digitize zines?
00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:26.400
How do you how do you personally feel about that?
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:33.440
Like, kind of getting consent to digitize zines that are maybe older and you don't know the person who made it and that kind of thing.
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:36.320
Yeah, that's a really good question.
00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:41.280
Um, and that's just that kind of thing in general is something that I think about a lot.
00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:46.960
And the answer is there's really no one size fits all answer answer to that question.
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:49.280
It's very, it's very case by case.
00:38:49.519 --> 00:39:01.280
Um, so for example, our huge zine library that we have at Rock, Paper, Scissors, we have a lot of zines that are from the 90s, some that are even maybe from the 80s.
00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:22.400
And it um, and we think, oh, these people have long since moved on, or maybe they're still making zines, maybe they would be delighted to have this out there on the internet, or maybe they would consider that a major violation um of their privacy, of their uh artistic vision.
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:37.119
Um and there, and on one hand, you could say you put something out there in the world, you you go around giving things to people, you give someone permission to sell your zine or have it in their library.
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:42.960
You don't you once it's out in the world and it's out of your hands, you don't really get a say what happens to it.
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:46.239
But then on the other hand, you could say what you just said.
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:55.840
Somebody's somebody said, Yes, I made this back in 1994 and gave it to my friends and left it in coffee shops, and it was just for people to grab and look at.
00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:59.599
And now it's on the internet forever with my name on it.
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:07.119
Um, and uh with the life that I'm living now, that's not really what I want people to see when they Google my name.
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:11.920
Um, when you know, potential employers Google my name or whatever.
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:34.320
Um and then of course, um there's been a in our very online, very digital world that we live in, there's been a resurgence of of print, especially zines, um, in the in some radical political communities who may or may not want their stuff online for a very, very, very good reason.
00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:38.719
Um and so I think it's a it's a case by case.
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:47.599
I when we're working on digitizing our rock, paper, scissors library, um, yeah, we're definitely gonna take what we have and put it online.
00:40:48.239 --> 00:40:56.480
Um and I think that um that that is generally okay for us to do because the zines were given to us.
00:40:56.719 --> 00:41:01.039
Um, but it is there is a little bit of a moral gray area there, I agree.
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:05.119
Um and I think that we're gonna we're gonna go for it.
00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:19.440
And if somebody, even if it's not act, even if you can't actually see the zine online page by page, even if it's just like here's an image of the cover, and we have this in this part of our physical library, almost like like checking out a book at the library.
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:21.360
Go find it in the stacks.
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:30.880
Even if it's just something like that, maybe people wouldn't even know that they they don't want their name out there in that context at all.
00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:37.119
Um, and if we're gonna do if if we're gonna take on a project like that, we need to accept that that might happen.
00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:43.760
We might have somebody reach out to us and be like, hey, I don't want this online.
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:45.280
Can you please take it out?
00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:50.960
And I think that, and of course, we're collective, we need to uh consult each other on things like that.
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:54.880
But if somebody asked me that, I would say, sure, you know, I'll take it down.
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:57.119
Uh, because you made it.
00:41:57.280 --> 00:42:06.719
Um, and you didn't, I didn't sign any kind of contract with you that says that we own it, you don't get what you know, and then and that's not our style anyway, not even close.
00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:10.400
Um so yeah, I think it's I think it's case by case.
00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:20.719
I think generally, if it's out there, if it's been out there forever, and we're trying to make a zine archive that can be accessed anywhere in the world, that we're gonna put it out there.
00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:32.159
Um, but but yeah, definitely as we're going through them, you know, if anything seems particularly sensitive, uh, that yeah, maybe we will skip that one.
00:42:33.119 --> 00:42:33.360
Yeah.
00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:34.639
Is that another question?
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:51.360
Yeah, and that's something that didn't come up in my conversation with Bridget, per se, the concept of like just kind of scanning like, you know, the cover, the front and back cover, and being like, this is who made this zine, come check it out in this specific area of our library.
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:59.840
Because I think I think when I was talking with her, it was more like should I scan every page of these zines and put it online?
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:18.320
You know, but yeah, like, and there's there's definitely a difference in the two ways to do it, you know, because one is like one is like, you know, we're providing you with the cover and maybe a synopsis and information on where to get it yourself or where to come check it out in our collection.
00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:27.679
And that to me feels like a better way to manage potential consent issues, I guess, around that.
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:36.480
Yeah, because then it's because in that that would be called a library, and then I guess what um it sounds like you and Bridget were talking about would be like an online archive.
00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:36.880
Yeah.
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:42.960
Where you can see these are the thousands and thousands of zine we have, and you can click on them and read it every single one page by page.
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:44.639
So that's a that's a different story.
00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:45.280
Yeah.
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:46.480
Um, yeah.
00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:57.760
Yeah, and that's something that I didn't even think of when I was talking to her about it, but that's that's an interesting, like, kind of new branch of that conversation.
00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:02.800
Yeah, yeah, because it's like yeah Because number one, like what do you mean when you say digitizing library?
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:04.079
Are you meaning what?
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:06.000
Library or archive?
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:09.360
Um, number two, what it what exactly is in here?
00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:15.360
Um number three, if this person reaches out and says, hey, take my stuff down, are you willing to do that?
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:16.159
What's your policy?
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:18.400
What's your org's policy on that?
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:25.119
So this person, Bridget, had just a bunch of zines from their dad from the other day?
00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:35.199
Her dad's been a zine star for like his entire life, and he's in his 70s, and so he's just got this like huge collection of zines that she inherited.
00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:39.440
Um and she's like, How do I share these with people?
00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:40.880
Should I share them with people?
00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:41.920
That kind of thing.
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:47.679
And she wasn't it really it able to just ask her dad, hey, can I share these?
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:51.679
Oh, because they were not his zines, they were just zines that he had collected that belong to other people.
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:53.039
Yeah, I see, I see.
00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:53.440
Okay.
00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:57.360
Well, then yeah, then that's the same, that's that's the same issue that we would have.
00:44:57.599 --> 00:44:58.239
Yeah.
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:01.280
Um, alright.
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:03.119
Those were the questions to ponder.
00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:05.440
Thank you for fielding them.
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:11.360
Um I now want to ask you about some of the specific zines you sent me.
00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:21.360
Um maybe not the RPS 20th anniversary zine because we already talked about that one, but I definitely want to talk about Chicken of the Seaweed and Sick Breakfast Ritual.
00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:23.280
Um Yeah.
00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:26.800
So tell me, tell us about Chicken of the Seaweed.
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:32.960
Okay, so um Chicken of the Sea is is it okay if I talk about Sick Breakfast Ritual first?
00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:41.119
Because it's kind of one is kind, it's not exactly Chicken of the Seaweed is not exactly a sequel, but it's kind of featuring the same character.
00:45:41.360 --> 00:45:53.280
Um, so uh both of these comics feature uh Bok Choi the Red Hen, who has become um, I conceived of her when I was in culinary school in 2018.
00:45:53.440 --> 00:46:00.880
I just drew a cute little chicken on the back of my notebook and drew a little speech bubble saying, like, Bok, be okay.
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:03.760
And I was like, Bok like Bok Choi.
00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:12.559
Um, and then I just started drawing this red chicken um with a big yellow eyeball and four little uh combs coming out of her head.
00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:14.559
And I was like, this is a really fun character to draw.
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:17.039
I think I'm gonna name her Bok Choi the Red Hen.
00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:24.880
Um so she was born February 3rd or February 2nd, 2018.
00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:37.679
So she is an Aquarius, and uh she is uh she's busy, she's hardworking, but she's not always the brightest because uh because she's a chicken, and that's okay.
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:40.880
She's still she's still lovable, even if she's not too bright.
00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:48.000
Um, and in um Sick Breakfast Ritual, um, also a uh I'm in that one.
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:53.039
Um I draw myself as uh not good Tony or bad Tony, but just Tony.
00:46:53.280 --> 00:47:05.840
And it's about me uh living in a house with a hen house that she lives in, and I wake up and there's and it it's kind of implied to be a daily struggle where I steal her egg for breakfast.
00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:18.320
She lays an egg every day because she's a chicken, and then because she's not too bright, she's not always the best at guarding it or keeping it away from me, and then I steal the egg and eat it, and she just goes goes to war with me.
00:47:18.639 --> 00:47:24.239
So basically in the comic, she lays an egg, she says, Ooh, that was that was rough that I laid that egg.
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:25.039
That shit hurt.
00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:38.079
I gotta, I gotta, I, but I gotta I'm gonna go get a cup of coffee, but I'm gonna lock my hen house so that Tony can't steal my egg for her sick breakfast ritual, which is what a chicken would call, what I imagine a chicken would call a human eating eggs for breakfast.
00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:39.440
Like, oh, that's disgusting.
00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:41.599
How can they, how can they do that?
00:47:41.920 --> 00:47:56.320
Um, and so when she's gone, I I go to the hen house, but it's locked, and then but then she leaves uh the chicken likes to garden, so she leaves her garden hoe by her hen house, and I use it to smash the lock, steal the egg, and cook it.
00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:10.639
And then she gets back, she sees that the hen house is open and the egg is gone, so she comes after me right as I'm enjoying my egg, and then I have a a secret uh secret stash of magic dust to use in case of a chicken attack.
00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:20.960
And so I throw it on her, and then we switch heads, and it becomes a chicken with a with a person's head and a person with a chicken's head, and that's the that's the end.
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:25.679
Um really that entire comic was just an excuse for me to draw that page.
00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:30.960
Like that, that, and that actually might kind of harken back to what you were asking before.
00:48:31.119 --> 00:48:33.519
What's your prop what's your creative process?
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:36.800
In that context, I wanted that to be the end.
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:41.840
So I was like, okay, I'm gonna draw a chicken with a lady's head and a lady with a chicken's head.
00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:42.960
How does that happen?
00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:45.360
And I'm like, okay, this is how it might happen.
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:47.599
So that sick breakfast ritual.
00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:54.800
Um Chicken of the Seaweed is um actually about Bok Choi and her gardening.
00:48:55.119 --> 00:49:10.639
And uh she's gardening, you know, having a chill morning, afternoon gardening, and then she gets a call from her friend Flower Cat, who's another uh another character in the chicken milkshake family, um, and who's a bit of a conspiracy theorist.
00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:12.960
And so Flower Cat calls and says, Hey, what are you doing?
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:15.679
And they're like, I'm gardening, and Bok Choi says, I'm gardening.
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:20.719
And Flowercat says, You know, if you want, if you want healthy vegetables, try seaweed.
00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:22.000
It's it's good for you.
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:25.440
Like, and they're like, Okay, sure, I'm gonna go garden now.
00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:48.159
And then they notice, um, then she notices that when she was on the phone that a bunch of snails have eaten her entire garden, um, and they're just eating her vegetables, and so she's freaking out, and she grabs her hoe to smash a snail, but then the snails form a big wall of snails in front of her, and she's like, I'm outnumbered, so she has to just walk away and let the snails eat her garden and be sad because she doesn't get her vegetables.
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:52.800
And then she remembers what Flower Cat says about seaweed.
00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:57.039
So she's like, Okay, if I want to make a salad, I need to go find some seaweed.
00:49:57.280 --> 00:50:10.639
So she dumps out the fish bowl that the fish was in, and if you read it, there's a little, a little tiny fish giving a little middle finger with its fin, which not everybody clocks when they read it, but I have people tell me, like, oh my gosh, the the fish's middle finger was the best part.
00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:12.960
Um, so yeah, and that was fun to draw.
00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:18.960
And so she puts it on her head, and then she uses a weed whacker for a propeller, and that's her diving suit.
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:26.000
So she walks down to the beach, and um Bokchoy, Bokchoy has a character flaw.
00:50:26.159 --> 00:50:28.320
She's uh she's a little bit racist.
00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:29.760
She doesn't like seagulls.
00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:36.400
Um, she thinks that chickens, chickens are superior to seagulls because they're refined and seagulls eat trash.
00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:48.079
And uh that would that came from me as a child because I would always just see like after the bell would ring at school and we'd run in to you, but then you'd walk out on the playground after lunch and there would just be seagulls going through the garbage.
00:50:48.159 --> 00:50:51.920
So if you'd ask Little Me what seagulls eat, I would say seagulls eat trash.
00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:58.079
Um and so she's like, Oh yeah, seagulls eat trash, but then she goes down to the beach and sees the seagulls swimming.
00:50:58.239 --> 00:51:04.960
Um, and she's like, Ugh, I don't I don't want to talk to seagulls because they're trash eaters, but they can swim.
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:07.760
So I need to ask them, how can they swim in this cold water?
00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:08.639
It's so cold.
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:11.920
And then the seagulls say, Oh, just get in, you'll get used to it.
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:17.519
So she goes in, she gets used to it, and then she uses her diving suit to go down and find some seaweed.
00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:23.280
And then down under the sea, uh, good Tony and bad Tony are there, but they're mermaids.
00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:29.920
And uh they're looking for some uh some lunch and they're all out of tuna.
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:35.119
So they they and then they see a chicken swimming around and they try to eat her.
00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:38.960
So she uh yeah, that's basically the long story short.
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:49.760
I won't spoil the ending of this one, but uh basically the plot of Chicken of the Seaweed is Bokjoy goes under the sea to find seaweed, and then the Tonies are mermaids who try to eat her.
00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:51.920
So, yeah.
00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:58.559
Definitely we'll be thinking of uh wanting to do more Bokjoy comics in the future because they're really fun.
00:51:58.719 --> 00:52:04.079
Um just the zany adventures of a of a not too bright chicken.
00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:26.480
Yeah, those comics seem really fun to draw, and like I don't know, I've never done comics because I don't like my drawing style very and I only really know how to draw dogs, but like I don't know, comics seem fun to like conceive of up here and like make and kind of figure out a storyline and stuff like that.
00:52:27.679 --> 00:52:30.960
Yeah, that would I would love to see your dog comics.
00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:34.000
Um, dogs are very, very fun to draw.
00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:36.400
Um I forget who it was.
00:52:36.639 --> 00:52:44.639
I wish I remembered so that I can properly credit this person, but somebody said, like, there'll come a time in every artist's life when they start drawing dogs.
00:52:45.199 --> 00:52:47.679
Like it's just it's just like dogs are fun to draw.
00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:49.920
Like they're all dogs, but they're all so different.
00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:52.559
There's different shapes, different colors.
00:52:53.199 --> 00:52:56.480
Um birds are kind of the same way.
00:52:56.800 --> 00:53:05.920
Um cats are just like, okay, you know, it's you know, it's all the same shape, but just some of them are fluffier and some of them are having you know different colors.
00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:16.480
But dogs, they have like different shaped heads, different shaped ears, um, smash noses, long noses, pointy ears, floppy ears, tails, no tails, um, and all that.
00:53:16.559 --> 00:53:18.960
Um, yeah.
00:53:19.039 --> 00:53:21.119
So dogs are dogs are fun to draw.
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:27.199
So I would, if you would ever consider doing a dog comic, I would absolutely love to read it.
00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:32.719
Um, I've actually had this idea in my head for like years that I've started and never finished.
00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:34.880
I picture it being more of like an animation.
00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:40.639
I've done like just very basic animation in uh just on Procreate on the iPad.
00:53:40.719 --> 00:53:50.800
And I picture like three dogs having a conversation about and like an argument about whether like sticks, tennis balls, or frisbees are better.
00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:53.679
Because I feel like that's what dogs would talk about.
00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:54.159
Yeah.
00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:56.719
They'd be like, oh my god, don't you just love frisbees?
00:53:56.800 --> 00:53:58.559
And they're like, no, no, no, it's all about sticks.
00:53:58.639 --> 00:53:59.199
No, no, no.
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:02.480
You you know, you guys know, come on, tennis balls, but clearly.
00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:09.679
And like sometimes you'll see somebody walking their dog and it'll just have a stick in its mouth, or it'll have a tennis ball in its mouth.
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:14.719
And like every dog I've ever had is just like you, it drops its toy and then you have to carry it.
00:54:14.960 --> 00:54:17.039
But some dogs will just not put their toy down.
00:54:17.199 --> 00:54:25.360
Like they'll, and they'll there's this dog in the neighborhood I grew up in, she who she always had her tennis ball in her mouth, and she would even, she never put it down.
00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:28.480
I think probably because she didn't want the other dogs at the park to take it.
00:54:28.719 --> 00:54:34.880
Like she never put it down unless she wanted her owner to throw it for her, to the point where she would even bark with her ball in her mouth.
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:36.320
It was really cute and really funny.
00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:44.159
She'd just be like, oh, oh, oh! So yeah, that's a that's a conversation that I that I think dogs would have.
00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:46.880
Annie would not participate.
00:54:47.039 --> 00:54:48.639
She doesn't like any of those things.
00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:51.199
But she'd be like a quiet observer.
00:54:51.280 --> 00:54:55.440
She'd be like listening in to see what the other dogs are thinking.
00:54:55.679 --> 00:54:57.599
She seems like a very chill dog.
00:54:57.920 --> 00:54:58.880
She is, yeah.
00:54:59.039 --> 00:54:59.440
Yeah.
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:03.599
Um, okay, are you currently working on anything?
00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:08.400
I know earlier you mentioned an RPS quarterly zine, but what else is going on?
00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:17.920
Yeah, so the RPS quarterly zine, um, one of our uh members, Lexi, is kind of spearheading that, Lexi Saret.
00:55:18.400 --> 00:55:23.440
Um and uh there is a uh I have a piece in there.
00:55:23.519 --> 00:55:24.639
I won't I won't spoil it.
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:29.199
You'll have to get get your get your little pause on the issue, but yeah, uh shoot.
00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:33.599
Uh it's called the it's called shoot, like rock, paper, scissors, shoot, you know.
00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:45.199
And uh yeah, it's gonna be a quarterly zine, um, mostly kind of a fanzine format about just what's going on in our local arts community.
00:55:45.360 --> 00:55:57.840
Um, and that can be anything from I'm part of that community, and this is what uh this is what I make, to hey, check out this band, check out this venue.
00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:01.519
Um here's where you can find this thing.
00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:03.599
So it's it's gonna be stuff like that.
00:56:03.760 --> 00:56:12.639
Um and our yeah, our first issue's done, it's just uh Lexi's compiling it right now, and then we need to send it to print, and then it'll yeah, it'll be out sometime in March.
00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:14.800
So that's very, very exciting.
00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:23.519
Uh as far as what I'm working on personally, um well, number one, I'm making a photo zine about my partner's cat.
00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:41.440
Um, but a little more exciting than that, I have uh this mini zine um that I actually started working on during a um when I was doing a zine workshop at uh Providence House, um, which is in uh uptown Oakland.
00:56:41.519 --> 00:56:43.440
It's um like affordable housing.
00:56:43.599 --> 00:56:48.400
Um and I've I've been doing a uh a workshop there uh almost monthly.
00:56:48.480 --> 00:57:00.880
Um I kind of fell off at the end of last summer, but I started doing them again in February this month, or I guess it's March now, um in February, and we did a um sorry about the texts.
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:04.960
Let's see if I can put it on Do Not Disturb.
00:57:05.039 --> 00:57:05.760
I didn't think anybody.
00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:22.239
Um yeah, so during that workshop, I made a prompts list because uh unlike me, most people don't just have a bunch of ideas sitting in their notes app waiting to be made into something if they would only have the time.
00:57:22.400 --> 00:57:25.199
So some people have a lot of free time and no ideas.
00:57:25.360 --> 00:57:26.880
I have the opposite problem.
00:57:27.199 --> 00:57:32.159
So I made a I made a list of prompts of just like, don't know what to make your mini zine about.
00:57:32.239 --> 00:57:33.840
Here's what you can make it about.
00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:41.519
Um and uh one of the things I wrote on the prompts list was sea creatures having a dance party.
00:57:42.079 --> 00:57:51.440
And um, and I was like, okay, I guess you know, people want to see an example, and I need something to do while I'm sitting here waiting for people to show up or waiting for people to ask me questions.
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:53.199
So I'm gonna work on one.
00:57:53.440 --> 00:58:00.239
So I I'm working on, sorry if it's backwards or anything, but it's called uh the great big dance party under the sea.
00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:03.519
Um and you can see I I haven't finished coloring it yet.
00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:10.960
I need to color these turntables, but there's a dolphin with uh doing like DJing on the cover.
00:58:11.280 --> 00:58:13.119
Um yeah, so I'm doing it.
00:58:13.280 --> 00:58:21.039
It's a mini zine, it's the the eight-page mini zine, and I'm I'm still inking it as you can see, um, doing it with colored pencils.
00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:23.760
Um, but yeah, it's it's a little rhyme.
00:58:23.840 --> 00:58:31.519
It's like a kid-friendly zine, um, inspired by stuff like the teddy bear's picnic and the owl and the pussy cat.
00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:36.480
Um, stuff stuff like that that I loved when I was a kid that has definitely influenced me.
00:58:36.639 --> 00:58:39.039
Um it's very short, I can read it to you if you want.
00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:39.840
Sure.
00:58:40.159 --> 00:58:41.199
Um, okay.
00:58:41.519 --> 00:58:44.559
The Great Big Dance Party Under the Sea.
00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:49.199
It was a sunny summer day at the beach, just like any other.
00:58:49.440 --> 00:58:53.280
Waves crashing, surfers thrashing, kids chasing each other.
00:58:53.599 --> 00:59:03.920
But little did they know, way down below, past the thermocline, the sea creatures were having a party, a dance party, and it was a whale of a good time.
00:59:04.880 --> 00:59:07.599
DJ McFlipper was feeling quite chipper.
00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:10.559
Shrimpy Joe was getting low.
00:59:11.119 --> 00:59:16.159
Sally the seal let out a squeal, and the snails danced very slow.
00:59:17.519 --> 00:59:26.639
All of the eels were up in their fields when that one lovey song came on, and the sea creatures danced the night away from moonrise until dawn.
00:59:27.599 --> 00:59:32.480
Yes, it's very short because it's a little eight-page zine, but uh yeah.
00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:35.519
It's fun, it's a fun, fun little thing.
00:59:35.679 --> 00:59:42.400
And uh now just anytime I have uh time to kill, I'm can just like pull out my pen, ink, pull out my colored pencils, color.
00:59:42.559 --> 00:59:57.679
Um, because yeah, anybody who draws comics or anything like that, uh, when you ask them what their favorite part of the process is, they'll be like inking, because you know you've done your pencil sketch already, then you can do your hard black lines, and then it's just like doing a coloring book.
00:59:57.760 --> 00:59:58.880
That's the fun part.
00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:04.480
So I'm almost in the coloring book phase of the Great Big Dance Party Under the Sea.
01:00:04.639 --> 01:00:10.559
And uh yeah, and you will see it at probably whatever is the next Fest Week table at.
01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:11.599
Hell yeah.
01:00:11.840 --> 01:00:12.480
Yeah.
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:18.480
Um, is there anything else zine related you want to promote or talk about?
01:00:19.280 --> 01:00:21.519
Um no, not really.
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:24.320
I just want to say, yeah, thank you for doing this.
01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:33.440
Thank you for hosting this podcast, thank you for having me, and uh all the amazing zines that that you make and uh and for very queer zine fest.
01:00:33.519 --> 01:00:34.400
Just thank you for all that.
01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:35.519
Thank you for being you.
01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:36.800
Thanks.
01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:38.800
That's so nice.
01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:39.920
Oh yeah, yeah.
01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:43.280
Um where can people find you online?
01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:52.800
Well, um, yeah, I make my uh I do I have my uh art under Chicken Milkshake.
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:57.599
Um if you look that up, you can find me.
01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:06.159
Um and uh yeah, you can find it there, and you can find me at uh yeah, most most zine fests in the Bay Area.
01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:08.159
I'll try to try to make an appearance.
01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:12.639
But yeah, chicken chicken milkshake is the name that I that I do my stuff under.
01:01:12.960 --> 01:01:13.280
Cool.
01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:23.119
I'll put a link to your um I'm looking up your actual I typed in chicken milkshake and it went to Google Images and it's gross.
01:01:23.440 --> 01:01:26.960
But oh are there like actual chicken milkshakes on there?
01:01:27.199 --> 01:01:30.400
Yeah, there's like milkshakes with like a chicken wing sticking out.
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:38.960
Um and I'm just trying to find your Instagram that I will which is literally just chicken milkshake and yeah.
01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:41.280
Oh wait, yeah, okay.
01:01:41.440 --> 01:01:43.760
So I'll link to that in the show notes.
01:01:44.400 --> 01:01:45.360
Wonderful.
01:01:45.599 --> 01:01:47.599
Um yeah, thank you.
01:01:47.679 --> 01:01:48.480
This has been great.
01:01:48.559 --> 01:01:49.840
It's always so much fun.
01:01:50.000 --> 01:02:02.159
Like, I think I say this every time I interview someone local, but it like I love interviewing people and I love talking to everyone about zines, but it's also really special to interview like a local person and like a friend.
01:02:02.400 --> 01:02:10.400
Um, it reminds me of when I first started and I was like just having people over in my living room, like around the site, like this very mic.
01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:12.559
Uh, everyone would just crowd around.
01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:15.440
Um so yeah, this has been really fun.
01:02:15.519 --> 01:02:16.400
Thanks for doing this.
01:02:16.719 --> 01:02:18.079
Yeah, thank you.
01:02:18.800 --> 01:02:28.480
Um, yeah, just also want to thank everyone for listening to every maybe not every episode, but if you've been listening to every episode, that's great too.
01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:30.320
In fact, it's fantastic.
01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:33.519
Um, but thanks for listening to season eight of Long Arm Stapler.
01:02:33.760 --> 01:02:37.280
Thank you to all of my monthly Kofi podcast supporters.
01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:41.280
It means a lot, and it really helps subsidize the cost of hosting and production.
01:02:41.519 --> 01:02:51.280
Um if you've been enjoying the podcast, or if you've found a new zine maker you like from the podcast, please consider supporting it for as little as a dollar a month.
01:02:51.440 --> 01:02:53.679
Um, after fees, that's like 60 cents.
01:02:53.920 --> 01:02:58.159
And again, what else can you do for 60 cents these days?
01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:14.719
Um there's a link in the show notes and on my webpage, which is also linked in the show notes, or you can go to my Ko-fi, which is uh co that's ko-fi.com slash L N G R M S T P L R, which is just longarm stapler with no vowels.
01:03:15.039 --> 01:03:18.960
Um I'm back on Tumblr if you want to see my work.
01:03:19.440 --> 01:03:24.960
Um yeah, uh check out my work if you wanna.
01:03:25.199 --> 01:03:26.800
But um, thanks again for listening.
01:03:26.880 --> 01:03:28.559
Stay tuned for the rest of the season.
01:03:28.719 --> 01:03:34.320
If you're interested in talking to me about your zines or your zine fest, there's a form in my link tree.
01:03:34.400 --> 01:03:39.920
Um and if you know a zine star who would be interested in chatting with me, send them my way.
01:03:40.480 --> 01:03:43.199
Um so yeah, thanks for listening to Long Arm Stapler.
01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:44.559
My name is Meyra.
01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:46.000
Thank you, Tony.
01:03:46.480 --> 01:03:46.800
And
00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:12.080
Hello and welcome back to Long Arm Stapler, a podcast about zines.
00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:13.279
I'm your host, Beyra.
00:00:14.160 --> 00:00:20.960
Today, this episode, I am joined by Tony Pecchia, who is the main brain behind Chicken Milkshake Zines.
00:00:21.280 --> 00:00:26.559
Chicken Milkshake Zines started as a zine review blog way back in the early 2010s.
00:00:26.879 --> 00:00:31.679
Tony was just starting to make her own zines around this time, but didn't feel super confident about it yet.
00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:39.280
So she just went to Zine Fest, traded with people, and reviewed their zines on the blog, and sometimes left zines in public places for people to find.
00:00:39.439 --> 00:00:42.240
She made a few friends this way and gained a lot of confidence.
00:00:43.200 --> 00:00:48.399
Now, Chicken Milkshake is the name that Tony publishes her zines under.
00:00:48.479 --> 00:00:53.520
Many of her zines are comics that feature a cast of characters known as the Chicken Milkshake family.
00:00:53.759 --> 00:01:00.399
Members of the family are Good Tony and Bad Tony, Bok Choi the Red Hen, Flower Cat, and Strawberry Ghost.
00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:07.760
She also has a series called Spider Veins, starring a spider named Greg who is unlearning his toxic masculinity.
00:01:08.000 --> 00:01:12.560
Greg is Tony's dad's name, but she absolutely wasn't thinking of him at all when she created the character.
00:01:12.719 --> 00:01:16.159
Her dad is a great guy who she doesn't really think of as Greg, just Dad.
00:01:17.359 --> 00:01:20.799
Out in the real world, Tony is a high school culinary arts teacher.
00:01:20.959 --> 00:01:22.480
Yes, that's a thing.
00:01:22.799 --> 00:01:32.400
When she's not barking at teenagers in the teaching kitchen, she is hosting zine workshops, readings, and open mics at Rock Paper Scissors Collective, an arts organization in Oakland, California.
00:01:32.560 --> 00:01:35.359
She is also a hopeless jock who loves swimming and biking.
00:01:35.519 --> 00:01:36.480
Hello, Tony.
00:01:36.799 --> 00:01:38.719
Hello, yeah, that's that's me.
00:01:38.799 --> 00:01:46.879
I am I am the hopeless jock who loves zines and uh teaches in a culinary arts kitchen at a high school.
00:01:47.120 --> 00:01:49.359
And uh yeah, loves to make zines.
00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:50.480
Hell yeah.
00:01:50.719 --> 00:01:52.719
Um, yeah, let's get into it.
00:01:52.959 --> 00:01:54.799
We have a bunch of stuff to talk about.
00:01:54.879 --> 00:02:00.480
I'd love to also like I'd love to talk about your own work as well as um your work with RPS.
00:02:00.799 --> 00:02:03.760
But let's start with how did you get into making zines?
00:02:04.799 --> 00:02:13.919
Well, I got into making zines actually because I was trying to get my writing published uh when I was in my early to mid-20s.
00:02:14.080 --> 00:02:25.680
I had felt like I'd been graduated from college for a while, and I did a lot of writing and creative writing, and I was trying to get published and was just just kind of kept hitting a wall.
00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:33.360
Um, as far as I got I got a few things uh published, but not really, I wasn't really getting the response that I expected.
00:02:33.439 --> 00:02:43.039
And I was just like, I know that I'm a good writer, like so I'm just got tired of asking for permission um and started printing things myself.
00:02:43.280 --> 00:02:55.199
And uh, and then I quickly went from that to doing more visual art, which I had kind of dabbled in but never really done much of, at least not seriously.
00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:59.199
And the very first zine I ever made was called You Are Not Special.
00:02:59.520 --> 00:03:20.639
Uh, and it was just various collages and visual art pieces and visual representations of the phrase you are not special, which was something that I'd been internalizing a lot, um, having grown up in a culture of participation trophies and now coming face to face with the real world.
00:03:20.719 --> 00:03:29.759
Uh, so it was kind of my way of coming to terms with that, uh, putting it on paper, and uh, and I took it to San Francisco Zine Fest.
00:03:29.840 --> 00:03:35.680
I having no idea, I didn't know anything about zine culture or that trading was a thing.
00:03:35.840 --> 00:03:38.639
Um, but it turned out yes, trading is a thing.
00:03:38.800 --> 00:03:44.400
And I so I printed a bunch of copies and just went around to people's tables and talked to them and traded zines with them.
00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:49.919
And then I came home with an armful of zines, feeling very inspired, and I was like, maybe this is something I could do.
00:03:50.080 --> 00:03:51.840
Maybe I should make more zines.
00:03:52.240 --> 00:04:03.120
And I think it was it was either a year or two years before I finally felt confident enough where I was like, I have a body of work, I can apply to table at a zine fest.
00:04:03.280 --> 00:04:07.360
And um, and I did, and I got accepted, and I've been doing it ever since.
00:04:07.680 --> 00:04:09.680
What was your first zine fest that you tabled?
00:04:10.159 --> 00:04:12.159
It was eBabes 2016.
00:04:12.400 --> 00:04:12.960
Yeah.
00:04:13.199 --> 00:04:14.000
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:14.240 --> 00:04:18.800
It was at the um at the David Brouwer Center, which is uh still still where it's held.
00:04:18.959 --> 00:04:24.639
It's been held in other places since then, on and off, um, at other venues, but that's where it's been.
00:04:24.800 --> 00:04:28.639
That's where it was when I first tabled, and that's where it was last year and the year before.
00:04:28.800 --> 00:04:32.160
Um that was the first year that I organized it, it was 2016.
00:04:32.319 --> 00:04:33.279
That's when I started.
00:04:33.519 --> 00:04:33.759
Yeah.
00:04:34.160 --> 00:04:34.399
Yeah.
00:04:34.560 --> 00:04:36.480
Oh I didn't know that.
00:04:36.720 --> 00:04:37.120
Great.
00:04:37.439 --> 00:04:40.240
Yeah, that was a big year for eBabes.
00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:41.600
Yeah, yeah.
00:04:42.319 --> 00:04:43.920
Yeah, I love e-babes.
00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:47.920
They're they've been, you know, we've collaborated with them with uh rock, paper, scissors a lot.
00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:50.879
Uh, we used to do the zine picnics in uh in late summer.
00:04:50.959 --> 00:04:55.360
We haven't done those in a while, but I think I want to yeah, try try doing those again because those were fun.
00:04:55.600 --> 00:04:56.480
Bring them back.
00:04:56.800 --> 00:04:57.920
Bring them back.
00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:05.519
So that's cool that you like kind of were so inspired by SF Zine Fest.
00:05:05.600 --> 00:05:06.959
Shout out to SF Zine Fest.
00:05:07.120 --> 00:05:10.079
Great people, great organizing, great fest.
00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:21.199
Um, and that you were just like so inspired that you just kind of you know developed your own body of work and were like, oh yeah, I can table too.
00:05:21.439 --> 00:05:25.920
Um, how was that experience for you, your first time tabling?
00:05:26.560 --> 00:05:36.639
Uh, it was also very positive because I got a very uh I I sold a lot, I talked to a lot of people, I traded a lot, um, made a lot of new friends.
00:05:36.879 --> 00:05:43.839
And uh weirdly, it was my first experience with meeting internet friends in person.
00:05:44.399 --> 00:05:51.279
Um, I had always I grew, I think like you, I kind of came of age in the in the MySpace era.
00:05:51.680 --> 00:05:57.439
Um, and uh definitely having a lot of online friends was was a flex.
00:05:57.759 --> 00:06:05.519
And uh and I kind of I was like, if you have a lot of internet friends, it means you're either really, really cool or really, really uncool.
00:06:05.839 --> 00:06:14.879
Um and that was kind of always, but I had never been like cool enough online where people would see me in person and recognize me.
00:06:15.040 --> 00:06:31.279
And that that actually happened last night um when I was at a show at Eli's, but it happened for the first time in um at the David Brouwer Center at eBabes, and somebody came up to me and was just like, hi, and I and I was like, hi, and then they're like, I'm, you know, and they said their name.
00:06:31.360 --> 00:06:34.079
And I was like, oh my gosh, hi, like internet friend.
00:06:34.399 --> 00:06:36.160
Um, so that was cool.
00:06:36.399 --> 00:06:41.279
And uh I think at the time, I'm trying to remember how many zines I had on my table.
00:06:41.439 --> 00:06:45.519
I want to say anywhere from four to six.
00:06:45.680 --> 00:06:52.560
Uh, and I understood that, and I've I've definitely seen it before that some people come and they only have one zine, and that's that's totally fine.
00:06:52.720 --> 00:07:01.680
Um, you you do you, but I felt like I was like, I need to have a couple, I need to have a body of work, um, just things that are all over the place.
00:07:01.839 --> 00:07:06.240
So I had um my travel zine I did, uh Loner Chicks.
00:07:06.639 --> 00:07:08.480
Uh, I think that was the launch of it.
00:07:08.639 --> 00:07:10.959
I think that was the launch of Loner Chicks.
00:07:11.040 --> 00:07:14.879
I had that one, I had a poetry one, I had You Are Not Special.
00:07:15.040 --> 00:07:18.800
Um, and I had, I don't think I'd started doing many comics yet at that point.
00:07:18.959 --> 00:07:19.839
I think I had one.
00:07:20.000 --> 00:07:22.639
It was this one I made called Germs Everywhere.
00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:29.199
Um, and it was about like germophobia and wanting to leave the planet and blast off into space because there's too many germs.
00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:38.000
Uh, and that was, and I had drawn a little character that kind of looked like me, but um, Tony versus Tony wasn't a thing yet.
00:07:38.160 --> 00:07:47.120
Uh, that became a thing a year or two later when I first started drawing those uh kind of spy versus spy comics, those two versions of me that I do.
00:07:47.519 --> 00:07:54.480
Um but uh yeah, I think it helped having more than one thing on my table.
00:07:54.639 --> 00:07:59.279
Um, because when people came by and were looking at my stuff, they were like, okay, this is nice.
00:07:59.360 --> 00:08:00.480
Ooh, but I want this.
00:08:00.639 --> 00:08:07.360
Um again, like no not hating at all on anyone who only has one zine or not telling them they're doing it wrong or anything like that.
00:08:07.519 --> 00:08:12.399
But that's I think that's what helped me personally was having a lot of stuff.
00:08:12.560 --> 00:08:17.120
And uh when people came up and approached me, I was like, oh hey, I have this and this and this and this.
00:08:17.600 --> 00:08:30.560
Something and that way it's like you have something for everyone, kind of, or like something for most people, you know, like they'll see something and be like, okay, that's not up my alley, but then something else on your table will grab their eye and they'll be like, ooh, yeah.
00:08:30.879 --> 00:08:31.839
Yeah, exactly.
00:08:32.000 --> 00:08:33.679
And that's and that's what you do too.
00:08:33.840 --> 00:08:36.639
Your table like always always has a ton of stuff on it.
00:08:36.799 --> 00:08:44.000
Um, and I I have I I'm pretty sure I have almost every single zine that that you've made, at least like since I've been going to fests.
00:08:44.080 --> 00:08:48.240
Um and then when I hear you have a new one, I'm just like, let's go, let's go, new Mayrazine.
00:08:49.120 --> 00:08:54.879
I've got a couple new ones, um, but now that I'm not on Instagram, it's like a secret, I guess.
00:08:55.600 --> 00:08:55.919
Yeah.
00:08:56.159 --> 00:09:00.000
Don't tell anyone I've got new zines um available on my Kofi.
00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:01.200
Just kidding.
00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:04.240
I mean, they are, but like this isn't an ad for that.
00:09:04.559 --> 00:09:08.639
Um so I'll I'll gat I'll gas up your Kofi.
00:09:08.960 --> 00:09:09.840
I'll do that for you.
00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:10.720
Thank you.
00:09:11.039 --> 00:09:11.279
Yeah.
00:09:11.600 --> 00:09:15.120
Um so what inspires you to keep making zines?
00:09:16.799 --> 00:09:19.600
It's like what doesn't inspire me?
00:09:19.759 --> 00:09:32.320
Any it I just have I feel like almost every day I have an idea for something, and I just have to add it to my little, you know, it's a list of a messy, disorganized list of things in my notes app.
00:09:32.480 --> 00:09:36.159
This could be a zine, that could be a zine, anything can be a zine.
00:09:36.240 --> 00:09:40.320
I think that's what people like you and me are always shouting from the rooftops.
00:09:40.480 --> 00:09:42.639
Anything can be a zine, and a zine can be anything.
00:09:42.799 --> 00:09:44.080
That's the refrain, right?
00:09:44.320 --> 00:09:44.639
Yeah.
00:09:44.799 --> 00:09:55.759
Um but it uh it's hard not to just be like, I want to make everything and be like, you know what, let's do a little quality over quantity.
00:09:56.399 --> 00:10:06.399
Um I had I had this idea when I was, I think, 26 or 27 when I've been making zines for a little bit.
00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:10.639
I was like, I want to have made a hundred zines before I turn 30.
00:10:10.879 --> 00:10:19.759
Um and then so I did the math, and I was like, okay, for that to happen, I need to make one zine a week uh until I turn 30.
00:10:20.000 --> 00:10:28.480
Um, because I have exactly it just right around that time, I was like, okay, I had there there happen to be exactly a hundred weeks before I turn 30.
00:10:28.559 --> 00:10:30.240
So I need to make a zine every week.
00:10:30.399 --> 00:10:32.159
And I was like, you know what, that's possible.
00:10:32.320 --> 00:10:33.360
I can do that.
00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:39.360
And then I started thinking about it and I was like, would that would they really be my best work though?
00:10:39.600 --> 00:10:43.519
Would they really be something that I would want out there in the world forever?
00:10:43.679 --> 00:10:48.159
Because once you put something out in the world, it's just there and it's and you know, it's got your name on it.
00:10:48.399 --> 00:10:54.399
Uh and so I was like, you know, I don't think, I think that I want to do the the quality over quantity thing.
00:10:54.480 --> 00:10:55.919
And maybe that was just an excuse.
00:10:56.080 --> 00:10:57.440
Maybe I was just being lazy.
00:10:57.600 --> 00:11:01.279
Maybe I totally should have done that 100 zines before 30 thing.
00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:03.519
Um, because that was that was a big deal.
00:11:03.600 --> 00:11:16.879
It's like, oh my gosh, when I, you know, I definitely internalized that whole, you know, once you turn 30, your life's over and you get all boring and you have to be an adult, and now that I'm like kind of pushing 40, it's like, oh yeah.
00:11:17.120 --> 00:11:21.919
I yeah, I've definitely done a lot of growing up in my 30s.
00:11:22.159 --> 00:11:40.799
And uh I don't know, maybe, maybe there is a little part of me that's like, I should have just hunkered down and done that hundred zine challenge, because I I do like a challenge and I do um like I do a lot of like self-set deadlines and limits just to keep myself accountable, keep myself going.
00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:51.360
Um, like for example, the the comics I draw, you may or may not have noticed that for a very long time they were only in three colors, not not including white.
00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:54.799
They were only um red, black, and green.
00:11:55.519 --> 00:12:04.480
Um, and that and I started doing that because I had started drawing with whiteboard markers that happened to just on white computer paper that happened to be red, black, and green.
00:12:04.559 --> 00:12:12.000
And then when I graduated to like using the iPad and you know, getting nicer markers, it's like, no, this is this is my thing.
00:12:12.159 --> 00:12:17.600
Um, and then I and then I did that for a long time and I was like, no, I can't do this because it's not red, black, and green.
00:12:17.759 --> 00:12:23.600
And I'm I'm I'm you know starting to starting to branch out a little, and people would ask me, why can't you use other colors?
00:12:23.840 --> 00:12:25.519
And I'm like, I just I I just can't.
00:12:25.679 --> 00:12:26.639
I just I can't.
00:12:26.799 --> 00:12:29.519
Maybe someday I will, but right now it's red, black, and green.
00:12:29.759 --> 00:12:32.080
That's such a rude question, I think.
00:12:32.399 --> 00:12:36.720
Be like, why isn't your work more colorful or like why aren't you doing this?
00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:37.360
Yeah.
00:12:37.519 --> 00:12:40.799
Another thing they would ask me is why are your characters always naked?
00:12:40.960 --> 00:12:45.039
Of course, of course, everybody wants to know that, because they because they almost always are.
00:12:45.120 --> 00:12:48.799
Um, and the answer is number one, vulnerability.
00:12:49.039 --> 00:12:51.600
Number two, drawing clothes is hard.
00:12:51.840 --> 00:12:54.080
Number three, tits get attention.
00:12:54.320 --> 00:12:54.639
Okay.
00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:58.240
Number three is the number three is the one I just thought of the at the top of my head.
00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:02.559
But yeah, those first two definitely mostly drawing clothes is hard.
00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:05.519
And I feel like it's Oh, go ahead.
00:13:05.759 --> 00:13:06.080
Sorry?
00:13:06.320 --> 00:13:13.919
Yeah, it's I'm finally getting to the point of like drawing clothes where it's just like it's not, you know, a sleeve doesn't cling to the arm, it it hangs off, you know.
00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:18.960
It's like, oh, it's like okay sometimes, but you know, drawing movement in clothing and all that.
00:13:19.600 --> 00:13:19.919
Yeah.
00:13:20.399 --> 00:13:26.000
For those of us who are not trained artists, it uh, you know, and it's like, yeah.
00:13:26.320 --> 00:13:44.320
And that's that's another reason that I feel strongly about zines, is is that uh, you know, my art definitely is not uh, you know, it's not highbrow, it's not, I'm not a trained artist or an illustrator, and you know, I have my style is kind of, you know, look at it as be like, oh, this looks like a little kid drew it.
00:13:44.480 --> 00:13:47.919
And it's like, okay, well, so does peanuts, and everybody likes peanuts.
00:13:48.080 --> 00:13:49.440
So, and so does Kathy.
00:13:49.759 --> 00:13:54.960
Like, you know, all the all those newspaper comics we grew up with and loved, like, those comics look like shit.
00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:56.399
Like, can I swear?
00:13:56.639 --> 00:13:58.240
Am I allowed am I allowed to say bad words?
00:13:58.399 --> 00:13:58.559
Okay.
00:13:58.639 --> 00:13:58.799
Yeah.
00:13:58.960 --> 00:13:59.279
Yeah.
00:13:59.519 --> 00:14:05.919
Um, and I think Charles Schultz, like, people even told him, like, hey, you suck at drawing, you should stop drawing.
00:14:06.159 --> 00:14:07.279
Your drawings are ugly.
00:14:07.440 --> 00:14:14.480
And he was like, Okay, they're I don't know what he said to that, but it's like, okay, no, you the point is you have your own style.
00:14:14.720 --> 00:14:17.759
Like, yeah, you have your own style that's recognizable.
00:14:18.080 --> 00:14:22.399
I feel like if someone told him that peanuts look like shit, he would like, okay, but look at Snoopy.
00:14:22.559 --> 00:14:25.279
Like, how can you possibly say that to this man?
00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:26.080
Yeah.
00:14:26.320 --> 00:14:27.200
This man, this dog.
00:14:27.440 --> 00:14:28.639
Snoopy, Snoopy is a man.
00:14:29.120 --> 00:14:31.120
Yeah, yeah, I meant Snoopy in that scenario.
00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:34.000
Yeah, how can you possibly tell Snoopy that he looks like shit?
00:14:34.240 --> 00:14:34.559
Yeah.
00:14:35.120 --> 00:14:35.600
You can't.
00:14:35.679 --> 00:14:36.639
That's just rude.
00:14:37.039 --> 00:14:38.720
No, no, he's Snoopy.
00:14:39.360 --> 00:14:41.440
He's he's proud to be Snoopy.
00:14:41.679 --> 00:14:42.080
Yes.
00:14:42.320 --> 00:14:43.279
As he should be.
00:14:43.919 --> 00:14:44.559
Yeah.
00:14:45.440 --> 00:15:03.679
Um, so when you're making zines, I know earlier you said that you used to kind of draw on paper with like whiteboard markers and you've like graduated, I guess, to like iPad, but what is your general creative process like when you're making a zine or a comic?
00:15:04.960 --> 00:15:20.399
Yeah, so uh if I'm making a zine, it definitely starts with an idea um that I kind of build on, and I'll usually just like start kind of spitball word vomit typing about this is what I want this to be.
00:15:20.720 --> 00:15:29.039
Um, and then when it gets to the point of actually making the zine itself, I'll be like, okay, what what kind of zine is this gonna be?
00:15:29.120 --> 00:15:30.559
Is this gonna be a mini zine?
00:15:30.639 --> 00:15:41.919
Is this gonna be the half-folded eight and a half by eleven kind of zine, which is uh my favorite kind of zine to make, but also it's much more difficult because I am not good at the layout thing.
00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:44.879
Um, and then I'm like, okay, what's gonna go where?
00:15:45.039 --> 00:15:46.639
What's this gonna look like?
00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:56.480
Um if it's a comic, uh usually I will do a page, um, like what do you call this?
00:15:56.639 --> 00:15:58.879
Like a page by page outline.
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:05.600
So I'll be like, page one, this happens, page two, this happens, page three, this happens.
00:16:05.840 --> 00:16:17.440
And then depending on how many pages I end up with, when I start thinking about the layout for the zine itself, I'm like, okay, I have an odd number of pages, and so I need some filler.
00:16:17.679 --> 00:16:31.440
I need like an inside front cover image or an inside back cover image, or maybe this thing that happens in the comic, rather than just making it part of a really busy page, I can make it its own entire page.
00:16:31.600 --> 00:16:34.879
Boom, this big thing happens and it's an entire page.
00:16:35.279 --> 00:16:45.919
Um and uh if it's writing, if it's poetry, uh, if it's anything like that, I just write it and I'm like, it's however long it is.
00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:56.720
And if I need some filler pages because I end up with a weird number, then I'll do a photo or uh this zine is dedicated to this and this and this.
00:16:57.440 --> 00:17:10.319
Um actually when I did the You Are Not Special, my very my very first one, um, in the inside front cover it said, This zine is dedicated to, and it was I had written something and scratched it out with Sharpie.
00:17:10.720 --> 00:17:11.839
Because like that was the whole point.
00:17:11.920 --> 00:17:17.200
It's like, no, this nobody's special, you're not special, I'm not special, this is dedicated to nobody.
00:17:18.880 --> 00:17:25.519
I was actually so dedicated to that idea for a while, it was like so stuck in my head that I got it tattooed inside my lip.
00:17:25.759 --> 00:17:26.079
Oh.
00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:28.079
Oh, you also have a lip tattoo?
00:17:28.319 --> 00:17:29.599
I do, I do.
00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:33.839
Nice, it's and it's mirrored so that only I can see.
00:17:33.920 --> 00:17:36.799
So like it's for me to see when I look in the mirror.
00:17:37.039 --> 00:17:37.359
Nice.
00:17:37.759 --> 00:17:44.559
I have mine says fuck it, but it's in my own handwriting, and it's like 14 years old at this point.
00:17:44.880 --> 00:17:45.200
I know.
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:46.799
I haven't looked at mine in a long time.
00:17:46.880 --> 00:17:55.039
I'm looking at it in the camera, and all I can see is the because it says S N-A-Y, but all but backwards when I look in the mirror, it's Y-A-N-S.
00:17:55.119 --> 00:17:56.000
For you are not special.
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:59.119
But all I can see is the I can see the Y and an A.
00:17:59.279 --> 00:18:01.200
I that's that's all I can see right now.
00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:08.400
Surprisingly, only one dentist has ever commented on it, which makes me wonder how common lip tattoos are.
00:18:08.559 --> 00:18:16.799
They were definitely like very, very trendy for a while, so they probably see because be like Miley Cyrus got one and stuff, so that's or somebody like that, I think.
00:18:16.960 --> 00:18:17.279
Yeah.
00:18:17.519 --> 00:18:18.960
Yeah, so people were getting them.
00:18:19.279 --> 00:18:27.599
I've been like, I no dentist has ever commented on mine, which is great, like, because that would be embarrassing for me.
00:18:27.759 --> 00:18:28.240
I don't know.
00:18:28.319 --> 00:18:35.920
Like, I had a tattoo artist comment on it one time because I told him about it, not because he was like looking in my mouth, but like he was like, Oh, okay.
00:18:36.160 --> 00:18:50.960
But it was like an inside joke with my best friend in high school, and we were both supposed to get them, and then she didn't get hers, and mine is so like they did such a good job, and it like healed so well that it's still like very dark and very noticeable.
00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:53.680
And one time my boss was like, Do you have a lip tattoo?
00:18:53.839 --> 00:18:55.279
And I was like, Yeah.
00:18:55.839 --> 00:18:56.799
Your boss saw that?
00:18:56.880 --> 00:18:59.920
Oh, so oh, is it like high uh high up enough that you can almost kind of see it?
00:19:00.000 --> 00:19:02.559
Or yeah, when I smiled really, really big.
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:04.160
Um, yeah.
00:19:04.319 --> 00:19:09.680
So I was like, I had to show my boss my lip tattoo for when I was like 21.
00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:16.240
Well, I'll try to make you laugh sometime so I can see the fuck it, maybe.
00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:20.960
Um, okay, getting back to zines.
00:19:21.839 --> 00:19:32.480
Um, so I have I would love to know more about your work with Rock Paper Scissors Collective, um, and like a little bit about the organization.
00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:38.880
If you want to give a like a very brief history of it, or just talk about how you got involved.
00:19:40.319 --> 00:19:42.640
Um, yeah, I would love to do that.
00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:48.880
Um so I am on the uh the Rock, Paper, Scissors Zine Committee.
00:19:49.279 --> 00:20:05.119
Um, and we do, we are actually, I'm really glad that we're doing our pot that this podcast now because we are releasing a uh a new zine at just as an organization that's hopefully it's not gonna be monthly.
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:12.559
We we don't quite have the the bandwidth for that right now, but it's gonna probably be quarterly.
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:15.440
Um so yeah, that's I'll I'll talk about that.
00:20:15.599 --> 00:20:18.880
Um that's something big that the zine committee is doing right now.
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:35.440
We're also gonna be working on uh digitizing our zine library um and uh just having having like an online archive uh because we have an enormous zine library, and it should be more than just a bunch of boxes of zines.
00:20:35.759 --> 00:20:45.200
Um and as far as I know, people have been trying to do that for years and years and years, and it looks like it might be finally happening.
00:20:45.759 --> 00:20:47.359
Um so that's good.
00:20:47.519 --> 00:21:00.319
But yeah, Rock, Paper, Scissors, um, for those of you who don't know, is a uh arts organization, uh nonprofit in Oakland that has been uh around for 21 years now.
00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:04.720
I believe it was 04 uh that it started.
00:21:05.039 --> 00:21:14.799
Um and we have uh uh we do workshops, we do um gallery shows, uh zine work nights.
00:21:14.880 --> 00:21:24.559
Uh I really like hosting uh open mic nights, poetry readings, um, performance kind of stuff, um, zine readings.
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:26.880
I I really like that kind of stuff.
00:21:26.960 --> 00:21:48.640
Um and last year we had a we had this really fun Halloween party um where we had all these just different craft stations, just different crafts you could do, um like caramel apples, uh block printing, which which I do a lot of, so I've I kind of uh oversaw that.
00:21:48.799 --> 00:21:52.400
Um the uh what is it called?
00:21:52.720 --> 00:22:01.839
Dyeing the um coffee filters to look like uh big uh flowers, um make Yeah, making uh trash art.
00:22:02.000 --> 00:22:07.680
We have a volunteer um who's really into the repurposing um and that kind of art.
00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:17.759
Um but yeah, a lot, yeah, and uh a very robust uh history uh especially of of gallery shows.
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:20.880
Um art uh it used to be monthly art shows.
00:22:20.960 --> 00:22:25.839
We're in a bit of a we're in a bit of a rut right now because we're looking for a new physical space.
00:22:26.000 --> 00:22:32.000
Um we're currently just a collective, we don't have a gallery space anymore as of about a month ago.
00:22:32.160 --> 00:22:39.839
Um so we're gonna be hosting things at various other locations until we get our own spot again.
00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:50.960
Um and uh yeah, it was it was nice for a while to have that, to have that gallery to uh to have shows in, art shows and uh and events.
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:57.920
Um because that's that's really that's really why I joined was because I wanted to like I wanted to organize events.
00:22:58.160 --> 00:23:08.559
Um and I got involved maybe on I I I was kind I was volunteering maybe five or six years ago.
00:23:08.720 --> 00:23:23.440
I would go in on Saturdays and help uh former zine director uh before you, you're also former zine director, but former zine director Alex Sodari, I would go in there and help them uh organize the zine library.
00:23:23.519 --> 00:23:26.400
And it was really, we would just like listen to music and read zines.
00:23:26.799 --> 00:23:40.319
Um and then uh yeah, and I went to just various events over the years, and then I started wanting to really get involved in this would have been around 2023.
00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:56.160
I actually went to a um for my former job as a chocolatier, I went to a chocolate event where I was vending for my for my work and bumped into somebody from Rock, Paper, Scissors and said, like, hey, we're looking for a new zine director.
00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:58.079
And I was like, okay, I'll do it.
00:23:58.160 --> 00:24:11.759
And then uh there's another person who joined who was who was had a little bit more um more time than I did, a little more energy than I did, and kind of became was the zine director for about a year and a half, and then it was me again.
00:24:12.000 --> 00:24:23.200
Um I'm though I'm technically the zine director, there are only really three or four of us on the zine committee as a whole, so it's I can't and I can't do that all myself.
00:24:23.279 --> 00:24:27.119
So I don't even really I'm I'm kind of the director in name only.
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:30.000
I'm what guys, like I need I need help on this.
00:24:30.160 --> 00:24:33.920
Like, I'm don't don't think of me as your boss telling you what to do.
00:24:34.079 --> 00:24:38.480
I I need to swallow my pride on that and not be like, I'm the boss, listen to me.
00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:41.119
It's like no, how how can we make this happen?
00:24:41.279 --> 00:24:42.400
Like, I need your help.
00:24:42.559 --> 00:24:48.960
Plus the whole I'm the boss, listen to me thing is antithetical to being a collective, which is which is in our name, after all.
00:24:49.279 --> 00:24:53.680
Um, yeah, so we're collective, uh nonprofit.
00:24:53.920 --> 00:24:56.960
Uh during our members' meetings, we vote.
00:24:57.200 --> 00:25:10.880
Um, nobody has veto power or well, well, people have people can very, very strongly state that they feel strongly about something, but nobody actually has the power to say, no, we're not doing this.
00:25:10.960 --> 00:25:12.880
Um we work through it.
00:25:13.599 --> 00:25:25.680
Um and uh yeah, I've been, I guess I've been a member for about, it must have been, I think it was early 2024 that I officially became a member.
00:25:25.759 --> 00:25:27.680
So yeah, about two years now.
00:25:28.079 --> 00:25:33.119
Um that I've yeah, been a member, go to weekly meetings, voting on things.
00:25:33.599 --> 00:25:34.960
Um, yeah.
00:25:35.440 --> 00:25:37.440
Yeah, it's a great organization.
00:25:37.680 --> 00:25:42.000
Um, like you mentioned, I was the zine director for about a year.
00:25:42.160 --> 00:25:46.640
Um and it was it was great to be involved.
00:25:46.720 --> 00:25:48.240
I loved doing events.
00:25:48.400 --> 00:25:54.000
Um, I wish that I had had a more robust zine committee because it was really hard to like get people.
00:25:54.240 --> 00:26:10.319
This was like early-ish during the pandemic, like so it was still hard to get people to like come to events and like get involved, and I was doing a lot of it on my own and I got burned out, but like really great organization with a lot of history.
00:26:11.359 --> 00:26:20.480
Yeah, the history behind it is is really incredible, um, especially when it comes to really we have rock, paper, scissors to thank for Oakland First Fridays.
00:26:20.720 --> 00:26:23.599
Um, you and me know that, but people listening might not know that.
00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:29.279
So yeah, you see you see a rock, paper, scissors person say thank you for Oakland First Fridays.
00:26:29.519 --> 00:26:40.319
Um But uh yeah, and for our 20th anniversary uh show, oh, something something else I should mention about the gallery shows is they're all group shows.
00:26:40.640 --> 00:26:45.839
Um I've seen one that was two artists, but uh, but most of them are group.
00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:48.079
The point is not just one artist.
00:26:48.400 --> 00:27:00.240
Um and uh I made a 20th anniversary zine for the for the 20th anniversary uh party that we had at the end of 2024 uh gallery show.
00:27:00.480 --> 00:27:04.079
Um and I, yeah, and I I interviewed you for it, I think.
00:27:04.400 --> 00:27:29.759
Um you were in there, and uh, and it was it was great good just going through all this old stuff we have, old flyers, um talking to people who were who weren't really involved and had gone and gone on to do other things, but having them reach out and be like, hey, this is this is me, this is a picture of me hosting a homemade soap workshop in like 2011 or something.
00:27:29.920 --> 00:27:32.880
Um so it was it was really cool to see all that.
00:27:33.119 --> 00:27:38.880
Um and uh interview, I I really love doing interviews like a lot.
00:27:39.039 --> 00:27:42.640
Um, and I know you probably do too, because that's what we're doing right now.
00:27:42.880 --> 00:27:45.680
Um, but uh yeah, I really love doing that.
00:27:45.759 --> 00:27:58.960
Um so that was it it was very difficult for me, um, just because of mostly because of the formatting stuff, um, and also just making myself find time to do it in the in an increasingly busy life.
00:27:59.119 --> 00:28:01.759
Um, we're all just getting busier, it seems.
00:28:01.920 --> 00:28:05.039
It's just the world we live in now.
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:14.400
I don't know if it's like a aging and growing up thing or if it's just we're all busier in general and there's ex more is expected of us than used to be.
00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:16.319
Um that's certainly what it feels like.
00:28:16.559 --> 00:28:19.759
Um, but yeah, I got myself to do it.
00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:20.720
I did it.
00:28:20.880 --> 00:28:37.680
Um it's uh currently I think we're sold out of those, but I think I will probably print a couple more for um in a couple weeks, the weekend of I believe, yeah, the weekend of March 28th and 29th, we're gonna be tabling at Dollfest.
00:28:37.839 --> 00:28:38.559
Um, which will be.
00:28:38.720 --> 00:28:39.920
Oh, this will go up after that.
00:28:40.400 --> 00:28:41.039
I'm sorry?
00:28:41.200 --> 00:28:42.880
This will go up after that.
00:28:43.440 --> 00:28:44.559
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:28:44.720 --> 00:28:45.839
This will go up after that.
00:28:45.920 --> 00:28:48.960
But anyway, I should print more of those scenes.
00:28:49.200 --> 00:28:49.759
Yeah.
00:28:51.359 --> 00:29:08.480
Um, and also Rock Paper Scissors is the fiscal sponsor of Bay Area Queer Zine Fest, um, which I think is really cool because that gives us us, Queer Zine Fest as an organization, more like opportunities to get like grants and stuff, which I think is really cool and really special.
00:29:09.039 --> 00:29:09.680
Yeah.
00:29:10.000 --> 00:29:27.200
So it feels good to be pairing with an organization that one has such like a long history of arts advocacy in the Bay Area, and also two, like an organization that is close to my heart and that I've been involved with, and that feels really cool.
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:30.640
Yeah, we're we're happy to be paired with you as well.
00:29:31.599 --> 00:29:41.039
I've been I've been to uh yeah, a few Bay Area Queer Zine Fests now, and I've enjoyed it very immensely every single time.
00:29:41.440 --> 00:29:47.119
So Yeah, we just announced we just announced our date for 2026.
00:29:47.519 --> 00:29:49.119
Oh my gosh, when's it gonna be?
00:29:49.279 --> 00:29:51.279
It's gonna be September 27th.
00:29:51.599 --> 00:29:52.400
Okay, alright.
00:29:52.559 --> 00:30:00.559
I'll make sure that we yeah, because we dropped the ball on uh on tabling last year, so I will uh try to try to apply this year.
00:30:00.799 --> 00:30:03.440
Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, I'll reach out.
00:30:03.680 --> 00:30:05.920
Um because you get you guys need a table.
00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:07.039
Thank you.
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:17.920
Um okay, so I've got some crowdsourced questions for you, including one from a conversation that I had with a previous guest, Bridget.
00:30:18.480 --> 00:30:26.559
Um, but the first question to ponder is what do you feel are some faux pas for a first-time zine maker?
00:30:27.839 --> 00:30:29.200
Oh, that's interesting.
00:30:29.359 --> 00:30:30.960
Thank you for asking me that.
00:30:31.200 --> 00:30:35.359
I think it, well, it depends on what kind of faux pas you're talking about.
00:30:35.519 --> 00:30:37.519
Are we talking about content?
00:30:37.680 --> 00:30:43.920
Are we talking about uh the actual nitty-gritty physical stuff of printing a zine?
00:30:44.319 --> 00:31:06.240
Um I think a faux pas would probably be not doing a mock-up, not um taking a physical piece of paper, especially if you're a visual person, and like making just a fake zine, be like, this number is gonna be this page, that number is gonna be that page, you're this is gonna be here, that's gonna be there.
00:31:06.480 --> 00:31:19.680
Um yeah, not doing that and not having just a ton of redundancy in general, because when it comes to things like that, uh if something can go wrong, it's gonna go wrong.
00:31:19.839 --> 00:31:27.519
Um, also waiting till the last minute, right before a zine fest, to go to FedEx and print your stuff.
00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:31.440
Um total newbie move.
00:31:31.599 --> 00:31:37.119
If everything takes longer, the printer's gonna jam, your stuff's not gonna come out right.
00:31:37.759 --> 00:31:46.000
Um, you know, if you've ever tried to print anything at any FedEx store, there's maybe one or two employees there and they're always swamped.
00:31:46.319 --> 00:31:52.720
So any getting anybody to help you is gonna take a long time, unless you're like extremely lucky.
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:59.359
And then by the time they get to you, they're either gonna be cranky or they're just not gonna know how to help you at all because they don't know.
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:13.440
So um, yeah, I think that yeah, not not having not leaving room for things to go wrong, I think is a faux pas because things things will go wrong.
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:15.119
Yeah, I agree.
00:32:15.359 --> 00:32:21.279
It is funny that not making a mock-up was your first answer, though, because like I don't know if I've ever made a mock-up of a zine.
00:32:21.359 --> 00:32:24.240
Like even when I was first starting, I was just like, I'm just gonna do it.
00:32:24.400 --> 00:32:25.680
Like, who cares?
00:32:25.839 --> 00:32:26.880
It'll be cool.
00:32:27.119 --> 00:32:30.240
Um yeah, I've just never done it.
00:32:30.559 --> 00:32:32.880
Okay, well, I mean that that works for you.
00:32:33.039 --> 00:32:37.759
Maybe you just have a your your brain works with that stuff a little better than mine does.
00:32:37.920 --> 00:32:41.519
Yeah, like if I don't have it in my hands, it doesn't make sense to me.
00:32:42.160 --> 00:32:44.960
So yeah, that's just kind of that's just kind of the way I am.
00:32:45.200 --> 00:32:46.240
For sure, yeah.
00:32:46.480 --> 00:32:48.559
No, I'm not saying like any one way is better.
00:32:48.640 --> 00:32:52.720
I'm just like, oh, that's funny that that was like because that's just I don't know, I've never thought.
00:32:52.880 --> 00:32:56.880
And people have come on the show before and been like, always do a rough draft.
00:32:56.960 --> 00:32:59.279
And I've just been like, I don't wanna.
00:32:59.440 --> 00:33:01.200
Like, no, no, yeah.
00:33:01.440 --> 00:33:02.640
I just don't want to do it.
00:33:02.720 --> 00:33:05.440
I just want to have the rough the rough draft is the zine.
00:33:05.519 --> 00:33:08.079
It's in a the process is part of the result.
00:33:08.400 --> 00:33:09.519
Yeah, I just want to bang it out.
00:33:10.559 --> 00:33:11.200
Yeah.
00:33:11.920 --> 00:33:13.039
Um bang it out.
00:33:13.119 --> 00:33:15.200
That's a that's a that's a phrase I use a lot too.
00:33:15.279 --> 00:33:18.960
It's like, I'm just gonna bang this out, have it in front of me, and then I can change it.
00:33:19.200 --> 00:33:22.640
Like, I need it in front of me in in order to like make any changes.
00:33:23.440 --> 00:33:23.839
Yeah.
00:33:24.000 --> 00:33:28.160
At least like I guess I guess in that way I do sometimes make a draft.
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:33.440
Cause like once I have it finished, I'll be like, Okay, is this good?
00:33:33.599 --> 00:33:35.920
And like, how can I make it better?
00:33:36.400 --> 00:33:38.559
That's the age-old question, isn't it?
00:33:38.720 --> 00:33:39.599
Is this good?
00:33:39.759 --> 00:33:39.920
Yeah.
00:33:40.160 --> 00:33:41.200
Is this any good?
00:33:41.519 --> 00:33:46.960
But the thing about zines is that that's so subjective, and like, yep.
00:33:47.200 --> 00:33:51.920
It could you could think it's trash, and somebody else is like, this is the best zine I've ever read.
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:56.640
Or conversely, yeah, you could be like, this is the best thing I've ever made.
00:33:56.720 --> 00:33:58.720
And somebody could be like, not for me.
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:00.559
I don't know, like, not into it.
00:34:00.799 --> 00:34:01.440
Yeah.
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:09.360
No, I've definitely because of what I mentioned earlier, just because of my art style, some people are gonna see it and be like, This is amazing, I love your style.
00:34:09.519 --> 00:34:14.719
And then some people are gonna be like, this looks like a kid drew it, or this looks like somebody made it on MS Paint.
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:18.159
And it's just like, okay, well, if you don't like it, it's not for you.
00:34:18.320 --> 00:34:20.559
You know, don't you don't like it.
00:34:20.639 --> 00:34:26.400
There's plenty of other art out there for you to consume with your eyeballs and your money.
00:34:26.719 --> 00:34:29.599
So my stuff's not for you.
00:34:29.760 --> 00:34:30.400
That's okay.
00:34:30.480 --> 00:34:31.920
It's not it's not for everyone.
00:34:32.079 --> 00:34:34.079
Not every thing is not for everyone.
00:34:34.320 --> 00:34:35.519
Yeah, just move it along.
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:37.519
Go to the next table, leave me alone.
00:34:38.159 --> 00:34:38.800
Yeah.
00:34:40.159 --> 00:34:44.639
Um, okay, next question to ponder is how do you price your zines?
00:34:46.079 --> 00:34:51.519
Um, I'm not, I'm honestly not the mathiest person.
00:34:51.760 --> 00:34:55.360
Um, I've had to come to terms with that in my professional life.
00:34:55.519 --> 00:35:03.199
Um, both uh being a longtime pastry chef and now being a culinary arts high school teacher.
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:06.960
Um, I've had to start thinking about that stuff more than I used to.
00:35:07.119 --> 00:35:18.320
Um and I really I I usually price them at about twice what it cost me to print them, unless it's gonna be outlandish.
00:35:18.639 --> 00:35:27.360
So for example, the uh Rock, Paper, Scissors 20th Anniversary zine, it was a lot of pages and it was in color.
00:35:27.599 --> 00:35:30.880
So it uh it was uh it cost a lot.
00:35:31.039 --> 00:35:37.280
It cost, I want to say, close to 10 bucks to like print each one at uh at FedEx.
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:39.920
So I was like, okay, should I sell these for 20?
00:35:40.079 --> 00:35:42.079
Is anybody gonna buy them for 20?
00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.840
And I kind of sucked, I was like, nobody's gonna buy their for buy them for 20.
00:35:45.920 --> 00:35:49.199
So I priced them at 15, which to me felt very steep.
00:35:49.280 --> 00:35:50.719
Um, but people bought them.
00:35:50.800 --> 00:35:52.320
People gladly bought them.
00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:59.119
Um, so it's like, okay, maybe I should have made them 20, or maybe I, you know, no, no, or maybe it's a good thing I made them affordable.
00:35:59.199 --> 00:36:04.880
It's like, okay, we didn't get back, we didn't get twice what we made, but at least we made a little bit.
00:36:05.039 --> 00:36:11.280
We made uh, you know, broke even and then got half more of that back.
00:36:11.440 --> 00:36:16.559
Um but yeah, usually around, yeah, around twice what it costs me to print them.
00:36:17.199 --> 00:36:17.519
Okay.
00:36:18.000 --> 00:36:18.639
Yeah.
00:36:20.159 --> 00:36:20.480
Yeah.
00:36:20.719 --> 00:36:28.159
Which, yeah, I but and then that said, I've never had a zine on my table that costs more than 10 bucks, other than the one I just mentioned.
00:36:28.480 --> 00:36:32.880
Um for my own personal stuff, yeah, I've never I've never had one that costs more than 10 bucks.
00:36:33.440 --> 00:36:42.559
Um and you know, I know you go to zine fests and you see people with like really, really nice zines that are full on, you know, you pick, you're just like, this is not a zine, this is a book.
00:36:42.719 --> 00:36:46.400
Um, and a lot of times those are those are very expensive to print.
00:36:46.559 --> 00:36:50.239
Those get sent, you know, to professional printers and they're bound.
00:36:50.400 --> 00:36:55.760
Um and so those might sell for like 20, 25 bucks or sometimes even more.
00:36:56.239 --> 00:37:01.039
And uh, you know, if that's what works for that person, then they can go ahead and do it.
00:37:01.119 --> 00:37:08.159
But I like I like my floppy, crappy, fuzzy dirtbag zines, and that's what I that's what I print.
00:37:08.400 --> 00:37:17.519
Um I feel like to your point about the RPS zine being like, you know, 15 bucks or whatever, it was also a fundraiser, wasn't it?
00:37:17.599 --> 00:37:18.880
So like Yeah.
00:37:19.119 --> 00:37:21.679
So that like makes a little more sense.
00:37:22.400 --> 00:37:27.840
Yeah, because it's like you're donating to us, you're donating to us, you know, being able to continue doing what we're doing.
00:37:28.960 --> 00:37:29.599
Yeah.
00:37:30.719 --> 00:37:33.199
So um Oh go ahead.
00:37:33.440 --> 00:37:35.760
Oh yeah, no, that's that's basically it.
00:37:36.960 --> 00:38:10.960
So the final question to ponder is actually a question that came up in the last episode with um my guest Bridget, and she was talking about digitizing her dad's like ancient zine collection, and how you know, some people who were making zines in the 90s never really fathomed that the internet would turn into what it is now, and they were putting, you know, their full names, their full addresses, like really personal thoughts in a in a zine and like putting it out there in physical form.
00:38:11.519 --> 00:38:17.679
And this is not like this context is not to like inform your answer or anything, it's just to like like give context to the question.
00:38:17.760 --> 00:38:23.840
But it's like how do you manage consent to digitize zines?
00:38:24.159 --> 00:38:26.400
How do you how do you personally feel about that?
00:38:26.559 --> 00:38:33.440
Like, kind of getting consent to digitize zines that are maybe older and you don't know the person who made it and that kind of thing.
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:36.320
Yeah, that's a really good question.
00:38:36.400 --> 00:38:41.280
Um, and that's just that kind of thing in general is something that I think about a lot.
00:38:41.440 --> 00:38:46.960
And the answer is there's really no one size fits all answer answer to that question.
00:38:47.039 --> 00:38:49.280
It's very, it's very case by case.
00:38:49.519 --> 00:39:01.280
Um, so for example, our huge zine library that we have at Rock, Paper, Scissors, we have a lot of zines that are from the 90s, some that are even maybe from the 80s.
00:39:01.519 --> 00:39:22.400
And it um, and we think, oh, these people have long since moved on, or maybe they're still making zines, maybe they would be delighted to have this out there on the internet, or maybe they would consider that a major violation um of their privacy, of their uh artistic vision.
00:39:22.960 --> 00:39:37.119
Um and there, and on one hand, you could say you put something out there in the world, you you go around giving things to people, you give someone permission to sell your zine or have it in their library.
00:39:37.360 --> 00:39:42.960
You don't you once it's out in the world and it's out of your hands, you don't really get a say what happens to it.
00:39:43.199 --> 00:39:46.239
But then on the other hand, you could say what you just said.
00:39:46.480 --> 00:39:55.840
Somebody's somebody said, Yes, I made this back in 1994 and gave it to my friends and left it in coffee shops, and it was just for people to grab and look at.
00:39:55.920 --> 00:39:59.599
And now it's on the internet forever with my name on it.
00:39:59.760 --> 00:40:07.119
Um, and uh with the life that I'm living now, that's not really what I want people to see when they Google my name.
00:40:07.280 --> 00:40:11.920
Um, when you know, potential employers Google my name or whatever.
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:34.320
Um and then of course, um there's been a in our very online, very digital world that we live in, there's been a resurgence of of print, especially zines, um, in the in some radical political communities who may or may not want their stuff online for a very, very, very good reason.
00:40:34.639 --> 00:40:38.719
Um and so I think it's a it's a case by case.
00:40:38.960 --> 00:40:47.599
I when we're working on digitizing our rock, paper, scissors library, um, yeah, we're definitely gonna take what we have and put it online.
00:40:48.239 --> 00:40:56.480
Um and I think that um that that is generally okay for us to do because the zines were given to us.
00:40:56.719 --> 00:41:01.039
Um, but it is there is a little bit of a moral gray area there, I agree.
00:41:01.199 --> 00:41:05.119
Um and I think that we're gonna we're gonna go for it.
00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:19.440
And if somebody, even if it's not act, even if you can't actually see the zine online page by page, even if it's just like here's an image of the cover, and we have this in this part of our physical library, almost like like checking out a book at the library.
00:41:19.679 --> 00:41:21.360
Go find it in the stacks.
00:41:21.519 --> 00:41:30.880
Even if it's just something like that, maybe people wouldn't even know that they they don't want their name out there in that context at all.
00:41:31.039 --> 00:41:37.119
Um, and if we're gonna do if if we're gonna take on a project like that, we need to accept that that might happen.
00:41:37.440 --> 00:41:43.760
We might have somebody reach out to us and be like, hey, I don't want this online.
00:41:44.000 --> 00:41:45.280
Can you please take it out?
00:41:45.519 --> 00:41:50.960
And I think that, and of course, we're collective, we need to uh consult each other on things like that.
00:41:51.039 --> 00:41:54.880
But if somebody asked me that, I would say, sure, you know, I'll take it down.
00:41:55.199 --> 00:41:57.119
Uh, because you made it.
00:41:57.280 --> 00:42:06.719
Um, and you didn't, I didn't sign any kind of contract with you that says that we own it, you don't get what you know, and then and that's not our style anyway, not even close.
00:42:06.960 --> 00:42:10.400
Um so yeah, I think it's I think it's case by case.
00:42:10.639 --> 00:42:20.719
I think generally, if it's out there, if it's been out there forever, and we're trying to make a zine archive that can be accessed anywhere in the world, that we're gonna put it out there.
00:42:20.960 --> 00:42:32.159
Um, but but yeah, definitely as we're going through them, you know, if anything seems particularly sensitive, uh, that yeah, maybe we will skip that one.
00:42:33.119 --> 00:42:33.360
Yeah.
00:42:33.760 --> 00:42:34.639
Is that another question?
00:42:34.960 --> 00:42:51.360
Yeah, and that's something that didn't come up in my conversation with Bridget, per se, the concept of like just kind of scanning like, you know, the cover, the front and back cover, and being like, this is who made this zine, come check it out in this specific area of our library.
00:42:51.440 --> 00:42:59.840
Because I think I think when I was talking with her, it was more like should I scan every page of these zines and put it online?
00:43:00.159 --> 00:43:18.320
You know, but yeah, like, and there's there's definitely a difference in the two ways to do it, you know, because one is like one is like, you know, we're providing you with the cover and maybe a synopsis and information on where to get it yourself or where to come check it out in our collection.
00:43:18.639 --> 00:43:27.679
And that to me feels like a better way to manage potential consent issues, I guess, around that.
00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:36.480
Yeah, because then it's because in that that would be called a library, and then I guess what um it sounds like you and Bridget were talking about would be like an online archive.
00:43:36.639 --> 00:43:36.880
Yeah.
00:43:37.039 --> 00:43:42.960
Where you can see these are the thousands and thousands of zine we have, and you can click on them and read it every single one page by page.
00:43:43.039 --> 00:43:44.639
So that's a that's a different story.
00:43:44.960 --> 00:43:45.280
Yeah.
00:43:45.440 --> 00:43:46.480
Um, yeah.
00:43:47.119 --> 00:43:57.760
Yeah, and that's something that I didn't even think of when I was talking to her about it, but that's that's an interesting, like, kind of new branch of that conversation.
00:43:58.079 --> 00:44:02.800
Yeah, yeah, because it's like yeah Because number one, like what do you mean when you say digitizing library?
00:44:02.880 --> 00:44:04.079
Are you meaning what?
00:44:04.400 --> 00:44:06.000
Library or archive?
00:44:06.159 --> 00:44:09.360
Um, number two, what it what exactly is in here?
00:44:09.599 --> 00:44:15.360
Um number three, if this person reaches out and says, hey, take my stuff down, are you willing to do that?
00:44:15.440 --> 00:44:16.159
What's your policy?
00:44:16.320 --> 00:44:18.400
What's your org's policy on that?
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:25.119
So this person, Bridget, had just a bunch of zines from their dad from the other day?
00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:35.199
Her dad's been a zine star for like his entire life, and he's in his 70s, and so he's just got this like huge collection of zines that she inherited.
00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:39.440
Um and she's like, How do I share these with people?
00:44:39.679 --> 00:44:40.880
Should I share them with people?
00:44:41.039 --> 00:44:41.920
That kind of thing.
00:44:42.800 --> 00:44:47.679
And she wasn't it really it able to just ask her dad, hey, can I share these?
00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:51.679
Oh, because they were not his zines, they were just zines that he had collected that belong to other people.
00:44:52.000 --> 00:44:53.039
Yeah, I see, I see.
00:44:53.119 --> 00:44:53.440
Okay.
00:44:53.599 --> 00:44:57.360
Well, then yeah, then that's the same, that's that's the same issue that we would have.
00:44:57.599 --> 00:44:58.239
Yeah.
00:45:00.000 --> 00:45:01.280
Um, alright.
00:45:01.440 --> 00:45:03.119
Those were the questions to ponder.
00:45:03.280 --> 00:45:05.440
Thank you for fielding them.
00:45:06.400 --> 00:45:11.360
Um I now want to ask you about some of the specific zines you sent me.
00:45:11.840 --> 00:45:21.360
Um maybe not the RPS 20th anniversary zine because we already talked about that one, but I definitely want to talk about Chicken of the Seaweed and Sick Breakfast Ritual.
00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:23.280
Um Yeah.
00:45:23.599 --> 00:45:26.800
So tell me, tell us about Chicken of the Seaweed.
00:45:27.360 --> 00:45:32.960
Okay, so um Chicken of the Sea is is it okay if I talk about Sick Breakfast Ritual first?
00:45:33.280 --> 00:45:41.119
Because it's kind of one is kind, it's not exactly Chicken of the Seaweed is not exactly a sequel, but it's kind of featuring the same character.
00:45:41.360 --> 00:45:53.280
Um, so uh both of these comics feature uh Bok Choi the Red Hen, who has become um, I conceived of her when I was in culinary school in 2018.
00:45:53.440 --> 00:46:00.880
I just drew a cute little chicken on the back of my notebook and drew a little speech bubble saying, like, Bok, be okay.
00:46:01.119 --> 00:46:03.760
And I was like, Bok like Bok Choi.
00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:12.559
Um, and then I just started drawing this red chicken um with a big yellow eyeball and four little uh combs coming out of her head.
00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:14.559
And I was like, this is a really fun character to draw.
00:46:14.639 --> 00:46:17.039
I think I'm gonna name her Bok Choi the Red Hen.
00:46:17.280 --> 00:46:24.880
Um so she was born February 3rd or February 2nd, 2018.
00:46:25.280 --> 00:46:37.679
So she is an Aquarius, and uh she is uh she's busy, she's hardworking, but she's not always the brightest because uh because she's a chicken, and that's okay.
00:46:37.840 --> 00:46:40.880
She's still she's still lovable, even if she's not too bright.
00:46:41.119 --> 00:46:48.000
Um, and in um Sick Breakfast Ritual, um, also a uh I'm in that one.
00:46:48.159 --> 00:46:53.039
Um I draw myself as uh not good Tony or bad Tony, but just Tony.
00:46:53.280 --> 00:47:05.840
And it's about me uh living in a house with a hen house that she lives in, and I wake up and there's and it it's kind of implied to be a daily struggle where I steal her egg for breakfast.
00:47:06.079 --> 00:47:18.320
She lays an egg every day because she's a chicken, and then because she's not too bright, she's not always the best at guarding it or keeping it away from me, and then I steal the egg and eat it, and she just goes goes to war with me.
00:47:18.639 --> 00:47:24.239
So basically in the comic, she lays an egg, she says, Ooh, that was that was rough that I laid that egg.
00:47:24.400 --> 00:47:25.039
That shit hurt.
00:47:25.119 --> 00:47:38.079
I gotta, I gotta, I, but I gotta I'm gonna go get a cup of coffee, but I'm gonna lock my hen house so that Tony can't steal my egg for her sick breakfast ritual, which is what a chicken would call, what I imagine a chicken would call a human eating eggs for breakfast.
00:47:38.239 --> 00:47:39.440
Like, oh, that's disgusting.
00:47:39.519 --> 00:47:41.599
How can they, how can they do that?
00:47:41.920 --> 00:47:56.320
Um, and so when she's gone, I I go to the hen house, but it's locked, and then but then she leaves uh the chicken likes to garden, so she leaves her garden hoe by her hen house, and I use it to smash the lock, steal the egg, and cook it.
00:47:56.400 --> 00:48:10.639
And then she gets back, she sees that the hen house is open and the egg is gone, so she comes after me right as I'm enjoying my egg, and then I have a a secret uh secret stash of magic dust to use in case of a chicken attack.
00:48:10.880 --> 00:48:20.960
And so I throw it on her, and then we switch heads, and it becomes a chicken with a with a person's head and a person with a chicken's head, and that's the that's the end.
00:48:21.119 --> 00:48:25.679
Um really that entire comic was just an excuse for me to draw that page.
00:48:26.719 --> 00:48:30.960
Like that, that, and that actually might kind of harken back to what you were asking before.
00:48:31.119 --> 00:48:33.519
What's your prop what's your creative process?
00:48:33.840 --> 00:48:36.800
In that context, I wanted that to be the end.
00:48:36.960 --> 00:48:41.840
So I was like, okay, I'm gonna draw a chicken with a lady's head and a lady with a chicken's head.
00:48:42.000 --> 00:48:42.960
How does that happen?
00:48:43.119 --> 00:48:45.360
And I'm like, okay, this is how it might happen.
00:48:45.599 --> 00:48:47.599
So that sick breakfast ritual.
00:48:47.679 --> 00:48:54.800
Um Chicken of the Seaweed is um actually about Bok Choi and her gardening.
00:48:55.119 --> 00:49:10.639
And uh she's gardening, you know, having a chill morning, afternoon gardening, and then she gets a call from her friend Flower Cat, who's another uh another character in the chicken milkshake family, um, and who's a bit of a conspiracy theorist.
00:49:10.800 --> 00:49:12.960
And so Flower Cat calls and says, Hey, what are you doing?
00:49:13.119 --> 00:49:15.679
And they're like, I'm gardening, and Bok Choi says, I'm gardening.
00:49:15.840 --> 00:49:20.719
And Flowercat says, You know, if you want, if you want healthy vegetables, try seaweed.
00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:22.000
It's it's good for you.
00:49:22.239 --> 00:49:25.440
Like, and they're like, Okay, sure, I'm gonna go garden now.
00:49:25.599 --> 00:49:48.159
And then they notice, um, then she notices that when she was on the phone that a bunch of snails have eaten her entire garden, um, and they're just eating her vegetables, and so she's freaking out, and she grabs her hoe to smash a snail, but then the snails form a big wall of snails in front of her, and she's like, I'm outnumbered, so she has to just walk away and let the snails eat her garden and be sad because she doesn't get her vegetables.
00:49:48.480 --> 00:49:52.800
And then she remembers what Flower Cat says about seaweed.
00:49:53.119 --> 00:49:57.039
So she's like, Okay, if I want to make a salad, I need to go find some seaweed.
00:49:57.280 --> 00:50:10.639
So she dumps out the fish bowl that the fish was in, and if you read it, there's a little, a little tiny fish giving a little middle finger with its fin, which not everybody clocks when they read it, but I have people tell me, like, oh my gosh, the the fish's middle finger was the best part.
00:50:10.880 --> 00:50:12.960
Um, so yeah, and that was fun to draw.
00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:18.960
And so she puts it on her head, and then she uses a weed whacker for a propeller, and that's her diving suit.
00:50:19.199 --> 00:50:26.000
So she walks down to the beach, and um Bokchoy, Bokchoy has a character flaw.
00:50:26.159 --> 00:50:28.320
She's uh she's a little bit racist.
00:50:28.480 --> 00:50:29.760
She doesn't like seagulls.
00:50:29.920 --> 00:50:36.400
Um, she thinks that chickens, chickens are superior to seagulls because they're refined and seagulls eat trash.
00:50:36.639 --> 00:50:48.079
And uh that would that came from me as a child because I would always just see like after the bell would ring at school and we'd run in to you, but then you'd walk out on the playground after lunch and there would just be seagulls going through the garbage.
00:50:48.159 --> 00:50:51.920
So if you'd ask Little Me what seagulls eat, I would say seagulls eat trash.
00:50:52.239 --> 00:50:58.079
Um and so she's like, Oh yeah, seagulls eat trash, but then she goes down to the beach and sees the seagulls swimming.
00:50:58.239 --> 00:51:04.960
Um, and she's like, Ugh, I don't I don't want to talk to seagulls because they're trash eaters, but they can swim.
00:51:05.039 --> 00:51:07.760
So I need to ask them, how can they swim in this cold water?
00:51:07.840 --> 00:51:08.639
It's so cold.
00:51:08.880 --> 00:51:11.920
And then the seagulls say, Oh, just get in, you'll get used to it.
00:51:12.000 --> 00:51:17.519
So she goes in, she gets used to it, and then she uses her diving suit to go down and find some seaweed.
00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:23.280
And then down under the sea, uh, good Tony and bad Tony are there, but they're mermaids.
00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:29.920
And uh they're looking for some uh some lunch and they're all out of tuna.
00:51:30.480 --> 00:51:35.119
So they they and then they see a chicken swimming around and they try to eat her.
00:51:35.519 --> 00:51:38.960
So she uh yeah, that's basically the long story short.
00:51:39.119 --> 00:51:49.760
I won't spoil the ending of this one, but uh basically the plot of Chicken of the Seaweed is Bokjoy goes under the sea to find seaweed, and then the Tonies are mermaids who try to eat her.
00:51:50.639 --> 00:51:51.920
So, yeah.
00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:58.559
Definitely we'll be thinking of uh wanting to do more Bokjoy comics in the future because they're really fun.
00:51:58.719 --> 00:52:04.079
Um just the zany adventures of a of a not too bright chicken.
00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:26.480
Yeah, those comics seem really fun to draw, and like I don't know, I've never done comics because I don't like my drawing style very and I only really know how to draw dogs, but like I don't know, comics seem fun to like conceive of up here and like make and kind of figure out a storyline and stuff like that.
00:52:27.679 --> 00:52:30.960
Yeah, that would I would love to see your dog comics.
00:52:31.119 --> 00:52:34.000
Um, dogs are very, very fun to draw.
00:52:34.239 --> 00:52:36.400
Um I forget who it was.
00:52:36.639 --> 00:52:44.639
I wish I remembered so that I can properly credit this person, but somebody said, like, there'll come a time in every artist's life when they start drawing dogs.
00:52:45.199 --> 00:52:47.679
Like it's just it's just like dogs are fun to draw.
00:52:47.840 --> 00:52:49.920
Like they're all dogs, but they're all so different.
00:52:50.079 --> 00:52:52.559
There's different shapes, different colors.
00:52:53.199 --> 00:52:56.480
Um birds are kind of the same way.
00:52:56.800 --> 00:53:05.920
Um cats are just like, okay, you know, it's you know, it's all the same shape, but just some of them are fluffier and some of them are having you know different colors.
00:53:06.000 --> 00:53:16.480
But dogs, they have like different shaped heads, different shaped ears, um, smash noses, long noses, pointy ears, floppy ears, tails, no tails, um, and all that.
00:53:16.559 --> 00:53:18.960
Um, yeah.
00:53:19.039 --> 00:53:21.119
So dogs are dogs are fun to draw.
00:53:21.360 --> 00:53:27.199
So I would, if you would ever consider doing a dog comic, I would absolutely love to read it.
00:53:27.440 --> 00:53:32.719
Um, I've actually had this idea in my head for like years that I've started and never finished.
00:53:32.880 --> 00:53:34.880
I picture it being more of like an animation.
00:53:35.039 --> 00:53:40.639
I've done like just very basic animation in uh just on Procreate on the iPad.
00:53:40.719 --> 00:53:50.800
And I picture like three dogs having a conversation about and like an argument about whether like sticks, tennis balls, or frisbees are better.
00:53:51.119 --> 00:53:53.679
Because I feel like that's what dogs would talk about.
00:53:53.920 --> 00:53:54.159
Yeah.
00:53:54.400 --> 00:53:56.719
They'd be like, oh my god, don't you just love frisbees?
00:53:56.800 --> 00:53:58.559
And they're like, no, no, no, it's all about sticks.
00:53:58.639 --> 00:53:59.199
No, no, no.
00:53:59.280 --> 00:54:02.480
You you know, you guys know, come on, tennis balls, but clearly.
00:54:02.800 --> 00:54:09.679
And like sometimes you'll see somebody walking their dog and it'll just have a stick in its mouth, or it'll have a tennis ball in its mouth.
00:54:10.000 --> 00:54:14.719
And like every dog I've ever had is just like you, it drops its toy and then you have to carry it.
00:54:14.960 --> 00:54:17.039
But some dogs will just not put their toy down.
00:54:17.199 --> 00:54:25.360
Like they'll, and they'll there's this dog in the neighborhood I grew up in, she who she always had her tennis ball in her mouth, and she would even, she never put it down.
00:54:25.440 --> 00:54:28.480
I think probably because she didn't want the other dogs at the park to take it.
00:54:28.719 --> 00:54:34.880
Like she never put it down unless she wanted her owner to throw it for her, to the point where she would even bark with her ball in her mouth.
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:36.320
It was really cute and really funny.
00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:44.159
She'd just be like, oh, oh, oh! So yeah, that's a that's a conversation that I that I think dogs would have.
00:54:45.199 --> 00:54:46.880
Annie would not participate.
00:54:47.039 --> 00:54:48.639
She doesn't like any of those things.
00:54:48.800 --> 00:54:51.199
But she'd be like a quiet observer.
00:54:51.280 --> 00:54:55.440
She'd be like listening in to see what the other dogs are thinking.
00:54:55.679 --> 00:54:57.599
She seems like a very chill dog.
00:54:57.920 --> 00:54:58.880
She is, yeah.
00:54:59.039 --> 00:54:59.440
Yeah.
00:55:00.719 --> 00:55:03.599
Um, okay, are you currently working on anything?
00:55:03.679 --> 00:55:08.400
I know earlier you mentioned an RPS quarterly zine, but what else is going on?
00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:17.920
Yeah, so the RPS quarterly zine, um, one of our uh members, Lexi, is kind of spearheading that, Lexi Saret.
00:55:18.400 --> 00:55:23.440
Um and uh there is a uh I have a piece in there.
00:55:23.519 --> 00:55:24.639
I won't I won't spoil it.
00:55:24.719 --> 00:55:29.199
You'll have to get get your get your little pause on the issue, but yeah, uh shoot.
00:55:29.519 --> 00:55:33.599
Uh it's called the it's called shoot, like rock, paper, scissors, shoot, you know.
00:55:33.840 --> 00:55:45.199
And uh yeah, it's gonna be a quarterly zine, um, mostly kind of a fanzine format about just what's going on in our local arts community.
00:55:45.360 --> 00:55:57.840
Um, and that can be anything from I'm part of that community, and this is what uh this is what I make, to hey, check out this band, check out this venue.
00:55:58.400 --> 00:56:01.519
Um here's where you can find this thing.
00:56:01.679 --> 00:56:03.599
So it's it's gonna be stuff like that.
00:56:03.760 --> 00:56:12.639
Um and our yeah, our first issue's done, it's just uh Lexi's compiling it right now, and then we need to send it to print, and then it'll yeah, it'll be out sometime in March.
00:56:12.800 --> 00:56:14.800
So that's very, very exciting.
00:56:14.960 --> 00:56:23.519
Uh as far as what I'm working on personally, um well, number one, I'm making a photo zine about my partner's cat.
00:56:23.679 --> 00:56:41.440
Um, but a little more exciting than that, I have uh this mini zine um that I actually started working on during a um when I was doing a zine workshop at uh Providence House, um, which is in uh uptown Oakland.
00:56:41.519 --> 00:56:43.440
It's um like affordable housing.
00:56:43.599 --> 00:56:48.400
Um and I've I've been doing a uh a workshop there uh almost monthly.
00:56:48.480 --> 00:57:00.880
Um I kind of fell off at the end of last summer, but I started doing them again in February this month, or I guess it's March now, um in February, and we did a um sorry about the texts.
00:57:00.960 --> 00:57:04.960
Let's see if I can put it on Do Not Disturb.
00:57:05.039 --> 00:57:05.760
I didn't think anybody.
00:57:09.360 --> 00:57:22.239
Um yeah, so during that workshop, I made a prompts list because uh unlike me, most people don't just have a bunch of ideas sitting in their notes app waiting to be made into something if they would only have the time.
00:57:22.400 --> 00:57:25.199
So some people have a lot of free time and no ideas.
00:57:25.360 --> 00:57:26.880
I have the opposite problem.
00:57:27.199 --> 00:57:32.159
So I made a I made a list of prompts of just like, don't know what to make your mini zine about.
00:57:32.239 --> 00:57:33.840
Here's what you can make it about.
00:57:34.239 --> 00:57:41.519
Um and uh one of the things I wrote on the prompts list was sea creatures having a dance party.
00:57:42.079 --> 00:57:51.440
And um, and I was like, okay, I guess you know, people want to see an example, and I need something to do while I'm sitting here waiting for people to show up or waiting for people to ask me questions.
00:57:51.599 --> 00:57:53.199
So I'm gonna work on one.
00:57:53.440 --> 00:58:00.239
So I I'm working on, sorry if it's backwards or anything, but it's called uh the great big dance party under the sea.
00:58:00.400 --> 00:58:03.519
Um and you can see I I haven't finished coloring it yet.
00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:10.960
I need to color these turntables, but there's a dolphin with uh doing like DJing on the cover.
00:58:11.280 --> 00:58:13.119
Um yeah, so I'm doing it.
00:58:13.280 --> 00:58:21.039
It's a mini zine, it's the the eight-page mini zine, and I'm I'm still inking it as you can see, um, doing it with colored pencils.
00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:23.760
Um, but yeah, it's it's a little rhyme.
00:58:23.840 --> 00:58:31.519
It's like a kid-friendly zine, um, inspired by stuff like the teddy bear's picnic and the owl and the pussy cat.
00:58:31.840 --> 00:58:36.480
Um, stuff stuff like that that I loved when I was a kid that has definitely influenced me.
00:58:36.639 --> 00:58:39.039
Um it's very short, I can read it to you if you want.
00:58:39.360 --> 00:58:39.840
Sure.
00:58:40.159 --> 00:58:41.199
Um, okay.
00:58:41.519 --> 00:58:44.559
The Great Big Dance Party Under the Sea.
00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:49.199
It was a sunny summer day at the beach, just like any other.
00:58:49.440 --> 00:58:53.280
Waves crashing, surfers thrashing, kids chasing each other.
00:58:53.599 --> 00:59:03.920
But little did they know, way down below, past the thermocline, the sea creatures were having a party, a dance party, and it was a whale of a good time.
00:59:04.880 --> 00:59:07.599
DJ McFlipper was feeling quite chipper.
00:59:08.159 --> 00:59:10.559
Shrimpy Joe was getting low.
00:59:11.119 --> 00:59:16.159
Sally the seal let out a squeal, and the snails danced very slow.
00:59:17.519 --> 00:59:26.639
All of the eels were up in their fields when that one lovey song came on, and the sea creatures danced the night away from moonrise until dawn.
00:59:27.599 --> 00:59:32.480
Yes, it's very short because it's a little eight-page zine, but uh yeah.
00:59:32.960 --> 00:59:35.519
It's fun, it's a fun, fun little thing.
00:59:35.679 --> 00:59:42.400
And uh now just anytime I have uh time to kill, I'm can just like pull out my pen, ink, pull out my colored pencils, color.
00:59:42.559 --> 00:59:57.679
Um, because yeah, anybody who draws comics or anything like that, uh, when you ask them what their favorite part of the process is, they'll be like inking, because you know you've done your pencil sketch already, then you can do your hard black lines, and then it's just like doing a coloring book.
00:59:57.760 --> 00:59:58.880
That's the fun part.
00:59:59.119 --> 01:00:04.480
So I'm almost in the coloring book phase of the Great Big Dance Party Under the Sea.
01:00:04.639 --> 01:00:10.559
And uh yeah, and you will see it at probably whatever is the next Fest Week table at.
01:00:10.800 --> 01:00:11.599
Hell yeah.
01:00:11.840 --> 01:00:12.480
Yeah.
01:00:13.679 --> 01:00:18.480
Um, is there anything else zine related you want to promote or talk about?
01:00:19.280 --> 01:00:21.519
Um no, not really.
01:00:21.599 --> 01:00:24.320
I just want to say, yeah, thank you for doing this.
01:00:24.480 --> 01:00:33.440
Thank you for hosting this podcast, thank you for having me, and uh all the amazing zines that that you make and uh and for very queer zine fest.
01:00:33.519 --> 01:00:34.400
Just thank you for all that.
01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:35.519
Thank you for being you.
01:00:35.920 --> 01:00:36.800
Thanks.
01:00:37.599 --> 01:00:38.800
That's so nice.
01:00:39.119 --> 01:00:39.920
Oh yeah, yeah.
01:00:40.320 --> 01:00:43.280
Um where can people find you online?
01:00:44.239 --> 01:00:52.800
Well, um, yeah, I make my uh I do I have my uh art under Chicken Milkshake.
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:57.599
Um if you look that up, you can find me.
01:00:57.840 --> 01:01:06.159
Um and uh yeah, you can find it there, and you can find me at uh yeah, most most zine fests in the Bay Area.
01:01:06.320 --> 01:01:08.159
I'll try to try to make an appearance.
01:01:08.400 --> 01:01:12.639
But yeah, chicken chicken milkshake is the name that I that I do my stuff under.
01:01:12.960 --> 01:01:13.280
Cool.
01:01:13.440 --> 01:01:23.119
I'll put a link to your um I'm looking up your actual I typed in chicken milkshake and it went to Google Images and it's gross.
01:01:23.440 --> 01:01:26.960
But oh are there like actual chicken milkshakes on there?
01:01:27.199 --> 01:01:30.400
Yeah, there's like milkshakes with like a chicken wing sticking out.
01:01:30.719 --> 01:01:38.960
Um and I'm just trying to find your Instagram that I will which is literally just chicken milkshake and yeah.
01:01:39.280 --> 01:01:41.280
Oh wait, yeah, okay.
01:01:41.440 --> 01:01:43.760
So I'll link to that in the show notes.
01:01:44.400 --> 01:01:45.360
Wonderful.
01:01:45.599 --> 01:01:47.599
Um yeah, thank you.
01:01:47.679 --> 01:01:48.480
This has been great.
01:01:48.559 --> 01:01:49.840
It's always so much fun.
01:01:50.000 --> 01:02:02.159
Like, I think I say this every time I interview someone local, but it like I love interviewing people and I love talking to everyone about zines, but it's also really special to interview like a local person and like a friend.
01:02:02.400 --> 01:02:10.400
Um, it reminds me of when I first started and I was like just having people over in my living room, like around the site, like this very mic.
01:02:10.480 --> 01:02:12.559
Uh, everyone would just crowd around.
01:02:12.800 --> 01:02:15.440
Um so yeah, this has been really fun.
01:02:15.519 --> 01:02:16.400
Thanks for doing this.
01:02:16.719 --> 01:02:18.079
Yeah, thank you.
01:02:18.800 --> 01:02:28.480
Um, yeah, just also want to thank everyone for listening to every maybe not every episode, but if you've been listening to every episode, that's great too.
01:02:28.639 --> 01:02:30.320
In fact, it's fantastic.
01:02:30.480 --> 01:02:33.519
Um, but thanks for listening to season eight of Long Arm Stapler.
01:02:33.760 --> 01:02:37.280
Thank you to all of my monthly Kofi podcast supporters.
01:02:37.599 --> 01:02:41.280
It means a lot, and it really helps subsidize the cost of hosting and production.
01:02:41.519 --> 01:02:51.280
Um if you've been enjoying the podcast, or if you've found a new zine maker you like from the podcast, please consider supporting it for as little as a dollar a month.
01:02:51.440 --> 01:02:53.679
Um, after fees, that's like 60 cents.
01:02:53.920 --> 01:02:58.159
And again, what else can you do for 60 cents these days?
01:02:58.400 --> 01:03:14.719
Um there's a link in the show notes and on my webpage, which is also linked in the show notes, or you can go to my Ko-fi, which is uh co that's ko-fi.com slash L N G R M S T P L R, which is just longarm stapler with no vowels.
01:03:15.039 --> 01:03:18.960
Um I'm back on Tumblr if you want to see my work.
01:03:19.440 --> 01:03:24.960
Um yeah, uh check out my work if you wanna.
01:03:25.199 --> 01:03:26.800
But um, thanks again for listening.
01:03:26.880 --> 01:03:28.559
Stay tuned for the rest of the season.
01:03:28.719 --> 01:03:34.320
If you're interested in talking to me about your zines or your zine fest, there's a form in my link tree.
01:03:34.400 --> 01:03:39.920
Um and if you know a zine star who would be interested in chatting with me, send them my way.
01:03:40.480 --> 01:03:43.199
Um so yeah, thanks for listening to Long Arm Stapler.
01:03:43.440 --> 01:03:44.559
My name is Meyra.
01:03:44.960 --> 01:03:46.000
Thank you, Tony.
01:03:46.480 --> 01:03:46.800
And
