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Hello everyone, it's Will here. We're still in the process
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of resuming normal service here at Lively Minds, but we're
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aware that today is the first Friday of the month
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and so we'd ordinarily be releasing a new episode. We're
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really pleased that we managed to get out two new
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episodes over the past couple of months. This month, we
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are taking another dive into our archives and replaying a
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conversation that Ellie and I had with Paul Wilshaw to
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talk about learning disability and mental health. This is a
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conversation that happened in February twenty twenty four. Paul is
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a learning disabled artist, producer and advocate who works for
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Minds at the Gap Theater Company, and we found our discussion,
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which covered the confusion between learning disability and mental health
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and how that to interact, really fascinating. Hope you enjoyed
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the program. Hi everyone. The following episode includes a brief
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reference to suicide idiation and a potentially triggering comment made
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by a healthcare professional who is not identified in the conversation.
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There are also quite a few references to research again,
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and you'll find links in the show notes. Please take
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care whilst listening and for signposting. To support, visit our
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website and your media dot net Forward Slash Lively Minds. Hello,
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my name is Will and my name is Ellie. You
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are listening to Lively Minds, the podcast about mental health
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challenges that go beyond the ebb and flow of the
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everyday The.
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Podcast that looks at how developing our understanding of mental
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health issues influences the ways that we address them.
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Before we get going with today's episode, we just want
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to say a big thank you to the person who
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gave us a very generous anonymous donation at our buymere
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Coffee page. You know who you are. It's very much appreciated.
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If you'd like to support the show too, then you
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can find our buy me a Coffee page at buy
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Me a Coffee dot com. Forward Slash Lively Minds.
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In today's episode, we are talking about the interconnections and
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misconceptions surrounding mental health and learning disability.
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According to the charities Mind and Mentcap, learning disability and
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mental health are often muddled at the same time. Some
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studies show that learning disabled people are at least twice
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as likely to struggle with their mental health than the
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population at large.
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To guide us through this topic, we are delighted to
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welcome Paul Wilshere to the show. Paul is an associate
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producer at Mind the Gap Theater Company. His role includes
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supporting the company's producing team in project delivery, as well
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as being an advocate for Mind the Gap. Paul uses
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his own lived experience to be an advocate for learning
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disabled people. Paul is also presenter of Mind the Gap
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and Disability Arts Online's podcast Disability and Dot dot Dot.
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I always want to say that dot dot dot become to.
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The show, Paul, we thank you very much for having me.
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Really do appreciate it.
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I guess we should start office by saying that that
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Ellie and I both know you outside of this podcast
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only for a while, and it's just really great to
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actually finally be able to have you on the show.
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Definitely, it's been great, and I know any for we
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shall not be Removed and that was great experience, except
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for wish we didn't have to go through that experience
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in the first place. But yeah, let's just to explain.
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That we Shall not be Removed. Was the Disability Arts
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Alliance that came together during the pandemic to try and
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work out how we could have a better landscape for
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disabled artists during and most importantly following the pandemic as well.
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Right, yeah, definitely.
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It simultaneously feels like it was ages ago that me
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and Paul were seeing each other on zoom all the time,
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but actually it also in a way feels like it
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was like a month ago.
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So Paul, thanks for coming and talking to us to
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start off with. As I mentioned in the intro, according
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to both MENTAP and mind men CAP being a charity
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that works with learning disabled people, Mind being a charity
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that focuses on mental health. Learning disability and mental health
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are often confused. So we're wondering do you agree with that,
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and if so, why do you think that is?
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I think it is It does get confused a lot
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of the times that you can't actually tell what part
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is of you, what part is your learning disability and
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also what part is your mental health? And if you
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don't understand it yourself, then in a way, how can
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you expect them for people to understand it. So, I
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mean I have depression, I got diagnosed with that, but
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I've also got learned disabilities and self proposy, So what
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part of my personality is my learning disability? What part
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is it my mental health side, and what part of
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it is my soul proposy. It's a really being to
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understand in myself. So I do understand why people get confused.
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I think though people do get confused. I think it's
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also that fear that people have of the unknown and
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the fact of that there's so much now being in
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the media around mental health and people are trying to
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understand their mental health, also trying to understand have I
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got this disabuity or it's that part of my disability,
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and that sometimes it's hard to actually know yourself. So yeah, no,
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I think there is definitely some confusion, but I think
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there's people are trying to understand more. Well I'm hoping
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so anyway.
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It's hard to want to figure out which bits which
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isn't it, and then at the end of the thought
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you're like, well, actually it's just sort of all the
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bit It's a bit like a jigsaw or something.
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Yeah, and you have all together. I think it's also
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that thing of everyone's scared, but also there is fun
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around having your disabuity, in having your mental health, because
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there is fun in that. Yeah, I think that's something
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that people are like, how Can that be fun? How
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is that fun? But you can't just you're not always down.
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And I think that's the thing for people just think, oh,
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if you've got depression or if you've got this, you're
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always down. It's not always the case. It's also that
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support that you have in place as well. Yeah.
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Can I ask Paul if I had to put you
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on the spot and say, have you thought about what
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might be some differences between mental health and learning disability.
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I think my mental health fluctuates and I try not
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to use jargon work. So what I mean is it
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goes up and down, and my learning dispiti is there
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with my life. It's the best way I can describe it.
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I learned disbity, I learn different from and I need
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support with my mental health. I get support, but it's
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not it's not as easy. And sadly, I'm one of
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those people that probably tries to cover up and puts
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a face on stuff too much. And what I've started
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to realize more recently is that people know what my
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sober pulses playing me up because I'm shifty and all
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that and i'm but with my mental health, only a
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few people will recognize when I'm going through one of
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my situations, I think, yeah, there's so much. So no,
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there's no I think what mind and main CAP put
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is very honest and say it's not the same thing,
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because it's not, and I mean not one person will
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have the same situation. I I mean, my situation is
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different than other people with mental health situations. But you
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need to be there to support everyone. And so yeah.
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Yeah.
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Something that MENCAP do talk about is how one of
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the problems about the confusion is that sometimes the learning
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disabled person might go to the doctor and the doctor
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will just assume that whatever they're presenting is part of
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their learning disability, whereas natural fact, it could well be
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a mental health issue. And the other thing they mentioned
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as well is that sometimes there can be a lack
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of connection between mental health and learning disability services within
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health as well, and that lack of coordination.
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A private sample of the doctors and staff is that
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I went to my doctor and I said that I
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was feeling suicidal at the time, and the doctor said,
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where you don't have much to live for anyway, do
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you what? Yeah, I had that from a doctor.
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Oh my gosh, Paul, that is absolutely dreadful.
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Yeah, and so yeah, I had that experience, and I mean,
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I can talk about it now, but I'm like at
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the time, I was like, okay, and I have to
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laugh about it because I'm like, whoa, Okay, but I
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had to go out there and just I had to
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chuckle to myself because I was like, how am I
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going to do it? It's you know, it's but I
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think it's also people doctors don't understand as well, and
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they I don't think they're getting the proper training as well.
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I think that's a major issue, is that if they don't.
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I mean I work as a role player, and I
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know that situations of where some people have never worked
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with a person with learned dispity.
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And when you say you're a role player, you mean
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you work in training doc.
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Yeah, yeah, I working with clear course psychology students around.
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So if they've never worked for a person with learned
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to spity, then how they meant to know how to
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also work about mental health and all this kind of stuff.
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So it's getting those experiences to the right people. And
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I really enjoyed doing that because it's like this is
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training up the news doctors and the new people are
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going to be going into those situations of working with
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people have learned to spities. So I have, and I
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don't only just work with my stuff. I work for
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a group of people that do it with me. So
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it's that experience. Yeah, there's been a few times where
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you just like, Okay, what's this is the new generation?
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Let's and yeah, it's just saying that. Well, yeah, so.
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I guess we just need more of that. Then, don't
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really need more courses and things maybe for GPS, not
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just for specialist psychologists.
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Yeah, definitely.
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Yeah, And I know from friends with learning disabilities and
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also like friends with children with learning disabilities, there seems
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to be a lot of being passed from one service
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to another with neither service wanting to support It's.
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Yeah, I think it's really interesting that it's the passing
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of from young people to adult services and that transition
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period does not it's really hard that they don't. I
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don't think groups talk to each other as much as
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they should, and that's where a lot of people are
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being missing the gap. I was going to say minding
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the gap, but it does seem that there's a lot
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of young people that are having that problem of that
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they go from one SEF to another and they're not
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all joining up.
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And I guess that that kind of those interactions with
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the health and social care systems that are disjointed, they're
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going to of course have a pretty negative impact on
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people's mental health as well, right.
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Yeah, I mean it's so my experience. I so I
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have more problems when I was an adult than when
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I was a youngster, young person, youngster, Yeah, do you
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for today? But yeah, I think so my experience has
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been more when I've been I had had some situations
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when i was down south, but I've had more situations
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when I've been up north around my mental health, which
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been Yeah.
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Various studies that have said that learning table people like
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more than twice as likely to experience mental health problems
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than people without learning disabilities, And I guess we've just
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sort of said one of the reasons that might contribute
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to this is like the fact that the services that
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are meant to support both those things aren't really capable
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of supporting both at the same time, it seems. But
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is there anything else that you think like gets in
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the way of learning table people being able to sort
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of manage their mental health, And.
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I think stigma, the stigma around it getting like this
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whole thing of getting people to talk that I think
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there's an issue around that as well of you don't
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know who to talk to. I mean there's great organizations
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out there, but there's definitely still issues around that topic.
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And yeah, just knowledge as well depends on also your
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age of the person. I think that's a major thing
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of Like if you're in the younger generation and I
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don't know the statistics around this, but they're probably more
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likely now to talk if you've got to learn this
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bit as well, compared to if you're in your old
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generation that has been brought up stef appelic you've got
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to carry on and all this and that does happen
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in the learned to sability community is learned to say
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with community as well that your your AKA can survive,
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you can cope. And I think that's probably another thing.
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But also what's in your area, who who what organizations
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are around that actually can support I mean I've got
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a great family hitped mind Gap who support me all
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the time. When mental health goes down, I know that
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I can talk to them and they know that if
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I need to go down south, they allow that to
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be with my mum. So my team up here is
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like a family to me, So I'm like, I know
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who to go to when I need to.
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That's bad, yeah, because I think having someone you can
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go to is so important, as you say, and being
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able to communicate and talk through the challenges that you're having.
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And I do wonder whether you know, I work with
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a lot of learning disabled creatives and artists. Often I
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find learning disabled people have a different way of communicating
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than non learning disabled people. This idea of that some
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people are nonverbal, that they don't speak, and that they
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don't speak necessarily. I guess that that is going to
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be putting more and more barriers, isn't it in the
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way of somebody being able to have a conversation with
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somebody about how they feel.
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I as definitely ways of communicating even if the person
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is non verbal as well. And how I think you
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have to always take stuff for so one to one
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basis and use how does that happen? But also does
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the services have enough time nowadays to actually like deal
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with that situation as well?
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And that's so awful, isn't it, Because that's just an
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you know, it's an access need. And you're right, you're
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very eloquent and you've you speak very well and quite
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a lot, and and yet you had that experience at
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the GP. So it's awful if stuff like the GP
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or what what does someone do who needs someone to
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have more patients and work out different ways of communicating.
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Yeah, and also knowing that sometimes the old school methods
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don't always work. I mean I've had situations where I
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have seen Alians being given in things and sweets and
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stuff like.
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That, kind of.
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Like a yeah, do you want a lot? And it's
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just like this is in the role playing situation. I
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have seen that, and I'm like, oh my god, the
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way when that happens, I've seen people walk out. I
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have seen people walk out before, but that it's happened.
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So Yeah, and it is that it's that thing of yeah, worrying.
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I should say that on the mind website there is
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actually a list of organizations that particularly work with the
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disabled people who have mental health problems that I've just found.
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So I'll put that link in the show notes. Inteuse
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anybody's listening and appreciate some signposting.
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Yeah, and I do want to say there is really
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good organizations out there. I don't want to just think
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that people think that I'm just slating everyone because I'm not.
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I think there's some brilliant organizations that really do support
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people with disabilities and mental health. You may have to
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be out there to support and yeah.
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Great, let's go to a break.
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We are on social media. Come over and tell us
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what you thought of our show, suggest a topic for
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future shows, or just say hello. Our handle is the
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same across all the platforms lively Minds, pod or one word.
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You'll find us on x, Instagram, Facebook, and LinkedIn, and
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you'll find all the links to our social media pages
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at and your media dot net, forward, slash, lively Minds.
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You can also contact us by emailing lively Minds at
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anirmedia dot net. Do you think that looking at mental
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health from the perspective of learning disability provides any fresh
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or helpful perspectives?
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I don't know that. If I'm honest, I think they
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probably is. I think you need if you do research
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around that topic, it needs to be done together. It
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needs to be a collaboration or I've then being researched,
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especially around mental health. Can I think if you're together,
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you know that you can support each other on their work.
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Yeah, how are you going to get like any kind
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of good quality research if you're not including people with
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the lived experience helping to guide that actual research as well.
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Yeah, something that you asked earlier about what's the things
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that also affects mental health? I think that it's the
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word take around that. For me, also, it's nighttime. Being
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alone is a major thing for me, and at nighttime
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that's when we're usually my mental health goes down because
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I used to I used to be around my mum
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a lot and my family, and now I'm on my own,
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so it's kind of I talked to my mum a lot,
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but it's like it's a different feeling and being up
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here by myself at nighttime and on the weekends, it's
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completely different. So I think that's so. I think that
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also is the loneliness. It's also a major thing.
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Yeah, I used to have that in the nighttime. I
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used to find so difficult. Yeah, it can be.
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And again, what you're saying is definitely backed up by
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research because loneliness is something which disabled people are far
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more likely to experience and non disabled people sadly, and
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so I guess this points again, doesn't it too There
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being all these factors in people's lives that are having
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that regular impact on mental health, which of course applies
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to everybody, to one's agree or another. But from what
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I can tell, from what I've seen in terms of
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the research that's been done impact disabled people, including lonely
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disabled people more so.
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Yeah, Actually, I was about to say something just ties
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right into the next question that I had, which.
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So much as that we know what we're doing, doesn't
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it isn't I know.
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Because I was thinking about the Yeah, I used to
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also find it really hard, like not you know, at
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the night time. I used to find it really hard
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if I wasn't distracted by doing loads of other stuff.
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But actually, once I got physically a lot more disabled,
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quite suddenly, that's when I actually started finding it easier
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because I've basically just invested in loads of memory, phone
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pillows and video games, and then being at home on
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my own became like you know, I was sort of
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like forced to make it really fun, and so now
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I'm good at it. I like it. Is there anything
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about your disabled identity, which you've spoken very eloquently about
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on the Disability and Dot Dot Dot podcast that kind
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of helps you with your mental health.
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Yeah, so really good question. And I don't I kind
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of separate it all. It's a really interesting thing because
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so rich is really interesting also because of me saying
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about that. I it's two different things. So I do
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separate my mental health and my learning disability and my
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self for policy differently. But I have been thinking about that.
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I'm not really sure if about my disaberty that's yeah,
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well I have as well.
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I guess in a way like the the you know
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how you were saying, like such a you know, mind
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the gap is is like a it's a disabled theater company, isn't.
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It, or learning disabled autism fit company.
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Yeah, and that and that you were saying before that
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that like that community is like you'r it's like a
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second family kind of thing. I guess in that way,
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that's like, you know, a way in which sort of
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being involved in specifically like disability stuff that's created that
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like caring community.
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Yeah, and I think, yeah, just having my friends around
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me as well, it's a major thing. That's not just
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for work. But yeah, and I used to play football
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a lot, so that also what's a major thing for me. Nice.
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Thank you so much, Paul. Is there anything else I
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want to add port about the interplay between mental health
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and learning disability.
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All I've really got to say is that everyone is
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different and no experience is the same, and to look
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after yourself some major things. And also that don't feel
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that if you are going through about day or about reek,
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that your failure because of it. We all go through
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it and there is people out there to support and
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to care.
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And yeah, a bit tearing so right.
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And to the younger generation as well, that there is
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so much out there and if you're going through a
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bad day a time, seek help, seeks the right support.
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Ka Be cares. You're all valuable.
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Thank you so much for a lovely message to end on.
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Thank you, Paul, Thank you.
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So much everyone for listening, and please tune in again
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for another episode of Lively Minds, the Mental Health Podcast.
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Please note that this show does not constitute medical advice
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and is not a replacement for seeking professional help. You
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can find signposting to support on our website at annirmedia
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dot net, forward slash lively Minds.
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Make sure you keep up to date with our shows
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by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts, and find us
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on social media at lively Minds.
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Pod, take care and buy for now.
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Bye bye bye
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Hello everyone, it's Will here. We're still in the process
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of resuming normal service here at Lively Minds, but we're
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aware that today is the first Friday of the month
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and so we'd ordinarily be releasing a new episode. We're
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really pleased that we managed to get out two new
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episodes over the past couple of months. This month, we
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are taking another dive into our archives and replaying a
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conversation that Ellie and I had with Paul Wilshaw to
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talk about learning disability and mental health. This is a
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conversation that happened in February twenty twenty four. Paul is
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a learning disabled artist, producer and advocate who works for
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Minds at the Gap Theater Company, and we found our discussion,
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which covered the confusion between learning disability and mental health
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and how that to interact, really fascinating. Hope you enjoyed
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the program. Hi everyone. The following episode includes a brief
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reference to suicide idiation and a potentially triggering comment made
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by a healthcare professional who is not identified in the conversation.
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There are also quite a few references to research again,
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and you'll find links in the show notes. Please take
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care whilst listening and for signposting. To support, visit our
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website and your media dot net Forward Slash Lively Minds. Hello,
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my name is Will and my name is Ellie. You
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are listening to Lively Minds, the podcast about mental health
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challenges that go beyond the ebb and flow of the
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everyday The.
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Podcast that looks at how developing our understanding of mental
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health issues influences the ways that we address them.
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Before we get going with today's episode, we just want
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to say a big thank you to the person who
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gave us a very generous anonymous donation at our buymere
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Coffee page. You know who you are. It's very much appreciated.
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If you'd like to support the show too, then you
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can find our buy me a Coffee page at buy
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Me a Coffee dot com. Forward Slash Lively Minds.
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In today's episode, we are talking about the interconnections and
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misconceptions surrounding mental health and learning disability.
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According to the charities Mind and Mentcap, learning disability and
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mental health are often muddled at the same time. Some
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studies show that learning disabled people are at least twice
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as likely to struggle with their mental health than the
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population at large.
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To guide us through this topic, we are delighted to
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welcome Paul Wilshere to the show. Paul is an associate
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producer at Mind the Gap Theater Company. His role includes
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supporting the company's producing team in project delivery, as well
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as being an advocate for Mind the Gap. Paul uses
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his own lived experience to be an advocate for learning
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disabled people. Paul is also presenter of Mind the Gap
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and Disability Arts Online's podcast Disability and Dot dot Dot.
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I always want to say that dot dot dot become to.
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The show, Paul, we thank you very much for having me.
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Really do appreciate it.
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I guess we should start office by saying that that
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Ellie and I both know you outside of this podcast
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only for a while, and it's just really great to
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actually finally be able to have you on the show.
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Definitely, it's been great, and I know any for we
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shall not be Removed and that was great experience, except
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for wish we didn't have to go through that experience
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in the first place. But yeah, let's just to explain.
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That we Shall not be Removed. Was the Disability Arts
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Alliance that came together during the pandemic to try and
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work out how we could have a better landscape for
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disabled artists during and most importantly following the pandemic as well.
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Right, yeah, definitely.
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It simultaneously feels like it was ages ago that me
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and Paul were seeing each other on zoom all the time,
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but actually it also in a way feels like it
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was like a month ago.
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So Paul, thanks for coming and talking to us to
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start off with. As I mentioned in the intro, according
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to both MENTAP and mind men CAP being a charity
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that works with learning disabled people, Mind being a charity
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that focuses on mental health. Learning disability and mental health
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are often confused. So we're wondering do you agree with that,
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and if so, why do you think that is?
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I think it is It does get confused a lot
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of the times that you can't actually tell what part
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is of you, what part is your learning disability and
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also what part is your mental health? And if you
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don't understand it yourself, then in a way, how can
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you expect them for people to understand it. So, I
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mean I have depression, I got diagnosed with that, but
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I've also got learned disabilities and self proposy, So what
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part of my personality is my learning disability? What part
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is it my mental health side, and what part of
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it is my soul proposy. It's a really being to
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understand in myself. So I do understand why people get confused.
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I think though people do get confused. I think it's
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also that fear that people have of the unknown and
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the fact of that there's so much now being in
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the media around mental health and people are trying to
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understand their mental health, also trying to understand have I
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got this disabuity or it's that part of my disability,
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and that sometimes it's hard to actually know yourself. So yeah, no,
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I think there is definitely some confusion, but I think
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there's people are trying to understand more. Well I'm hoping
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so anyway.
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It's hard to want to figure out which bits which
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isn't it, and then at the end of the thought
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you're like, well, actually it's just sort of all the
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bit It's a bit like a jigsaw or something.
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Yeah, and you have all together. I think it's also
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that thing of everyone's scared, but also there is fun
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around having your disabuity, in having your mental health, because
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there is fun in that. Yeah, I think that's something
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that people are like, how Can that be fun? How
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is that fun? But you can't just you're not always down.
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And I think that's the thing for people just think, oh,
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if you've got depression or if you've got this, you're
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always down. It's not always the case. It's also that
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support that you have in place as well. Yeah.
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Can I ask Paul if I had to put you
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on the spot and say, have you thought about what
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might be some differences between mental health and learning disability.
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I think my mental health fluctuates and I try not
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to use jargon work. So what I mean is it
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goes up and down, and my learning dispiti is there
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with my life. It's the best way I can describe it.
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I learned disbity, I learn different from and I need
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support with my mental health. I get support, but it's
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not it's not as easy. And sadly, I'm one of
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those people that probably tries to cover up and puts
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a face on stuff too much. And what I've started
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to realize more recently is that people know what my
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sober pulses playing me up because I'm shifty and all
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that and i'm but with my mental health, only a
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few people will recognize when I'm going through one of
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my situations, I think, yeah, there's so much. So no,
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there's no I think what mind and main CAP put
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is very honest and say it's not the same thing,
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because it's not, and I mean not one person will
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have the same situation. I I mean, my situation is
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different than other people with mental health situations. But you
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need to be there to support everyone. And so yeah.
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Yeah.
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Something that MENCAP do talk about is how one of
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the problems about the confusion is that sometimes the learning
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disabled person might go to the doctor and the doctor
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will just assume that whatever they're presenting is part of
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their learning disability, whereas natural fact, it could well be
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a mental health issue. And the other thing they mentioned
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as well is that sometimes there can be a lack
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of connection between mental health and learning disability services within
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health as well, and that lack of coordination.
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A private sample of the doctors and staff is that
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I went to my doctor and I said that I
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was feeling suicidal at the time, and the doctor said,
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where you don't have much to live for anyway, do
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you what? Yeah, I had that from a doctor.
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Oh my gosh, Paul, that is absolutely dreadful.
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Yeah, and so yeah, I had that experience, and I mean,
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I can talk about it now, but I'm like at
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the time, I was like, okay, and I have to
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laugh about it because I'm like, whoa, Okay, but I
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had to go out there and just I had to
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chuckle to myself because I was like, how am I
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going to do it? It's you know, it's but I
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think it's also people doctors don't understand as well, and
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they I don't think they're getting the proper training as well.
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I think that's a major issue, is that if they don't.
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I mean I work as a role player, and I
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know that situations of where some people have never worked
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with a person with learned dispity.
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And when you say you're a role player, you mean
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you work in training doc.
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Yeah, yeah, I working with clear course psychology students around.
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So if they've never worked for a person with learned
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to spity, then how they meant to know how to
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also work about mental health and all this kind of stuff.
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So it's getting those experiences to the right people. And
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I really enjoyed doing that because it's like this is
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training up the news doctors and the new people are
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going to be going into those situations of working with
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people have learned to spities. So I have, and I
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don't only just work with my stuff. I work for
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a group of people that do it with me. So
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it's that experience. Yeah, there's been a few times where
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you just like, Okay, what's this is the new generation?
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Let's and yeah, it's just saying that. Well, yeah, so.
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I guess we just need more of that. Then, don't
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really need more courses and things maybe for GPS, not
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just for specialist psychologists.
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Yeah, definitely.
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Yeah, And I know from friends with learning disabilities and
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also like friends with children with learning disabilities, there seems
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to be a lot of being passed from one service
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to another with neither service wanting to support It's.
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Yeah, I think it's really interesting that it's the passing
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of from young people to adult services and that transition
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period does not it's really hard that they don't. I
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don't think groups talk to each other as much as
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they should, and that's where a lot of people are
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being missing the gap. I was going to say minding
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the gap, but it does seem that there's a lot
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of young people that are having that problem of that
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they go from one SEF to another and they're not
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all joining up.
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And I guess that that kind of those interactions with
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the health and social care systems that are disjointed, they're
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going to of course have a pretty negative impact on
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people's mental health as well, right.
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Yeah, I mean it's so my experience. I so I
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have more problems when I was an adult than when
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I was a youngster, young person, youngster, Yeah, do you
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for today? But yeah, I think so my experience has
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been more when I've been I had had some situations
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when i was down south, but I've had more situations
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when I've been up north around my mental health, which
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been Yeah.
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Various studies that have said that learning table people like
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more than twice as likely to experience mental health problems
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than people without learning disabilities, And I guess we've just
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sort of said one of the reasons that might contribute
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to this is like the fact that the services that
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are meant to support both those things aren't really capable
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of supporting both at the same time, it seems. But
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is there anything else that you think like gets in
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the way of learning table people being able to sort
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of manage their mental health, And.
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I think stigma, the stigma around it getting like this
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whole thing of getting people to talk that I think
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there's an issue around that as well of you don't
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know who to talk to. I mean there's great organizations
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out there, but there's definitely still issues around that topic.
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And yeah, just knowledge as well depends on also your
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age of the person. I think that's a major thing
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of Like if you're in the younger generation and I
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don't know the statistics around this, but they're probably more
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likely now to talk if you've got to learn this
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bit as well, compared to if you're in your old
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generation that has been brought up stef appelic you've got
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to carry on and all this and that does happen
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in the learned to sability community is learned to say
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with community as well that your your AKA can survive,
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you can cope. And I think that's probably another thing.
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But also what's in your area, who who what organizations
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are around that actually can support I mean I've got
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a great family hitped mind Gap who support me all
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the time. When mental health goes down, I know that
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I can talk to them and they know that if
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I need to go down south, they allow that to
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be with my mum. So my team up here is
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like a family to me, So I'm like, I know
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who to go to when I need to.
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That's bad, yeah, because I think having someone you can
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go to is so important, as you say, and being
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able to communicate and talk through the challenges that you're having.
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And I do wonder whether you know, I work with
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a lot of learning disabled creatives and artists. Often I
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find learning disabled people have a different way of communicating
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than non learning disabled people. This idea of that some
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people are nonverbal, that they don't speak, and that they
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don't speak necessarily. I guess that that is going to
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be putting more and more barriers, isn't it in the
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way of somebody being able to have a conversation with
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somebody about how they feel.
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I as definitely ways of communicating even if the person
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is non verbal as well. And how I think you
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have to always take stuff for so one to one
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basis and use how does that happen? But also does
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the services have enough time nowadays to actually like deal
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with that situation as well?
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And that's so awful, isn't it, Because that's just an
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you know, it's an access need. And you're right, you're
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very eloquent and you've you speak very well and quite
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a lot, and and yet you had that experience at
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the GP. So it's awful if stuff like the GP
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or what what does someone do who needs someone to
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have more patients and work out different ways of communicating.
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Yeah, and also knowing that sometimes the old school methods
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don't always work. I mean I've had situations where I
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have seen Alians being given in things and sweets and
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stuff like.
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That, kind of.
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Like a yeah, do you want a lot? And it's
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just like this is in the role playing situation. I
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have seen that, and I'm like, oh my god, the
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way when that happens, I've seen people walk out. I
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have seen people walk out before, but that it's happened.
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So Yeah, and it is that it's that thing of yeah, worrying.
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I should say that on the mind website there is
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actually a list of organizations that particularly work with the
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disabled people who have mental health problems that I've just found.
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So I'll put that link in the show notes. Inteuse
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anybody's listening and appreciate some signposting.
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Yeah, and I do want to say there is really
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good organizations out there. I don't want to just think
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that people think that I'm just slating everyone because I'm not.
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I think there's some brilliant organizations that really do support
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people with disabilities and mental health. You may have to
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be out there to support and yeah.
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Great, let's go to a break.
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We are on social media. Come over and tell us
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future shows, or just say hello. Our handle is the
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you'll find all the links to our social media pages
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at and your media dot net, forward, slash, lively Minds.
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You can also contact us by emailing lively Minds at
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anirmedia dot net. Do you think that looking at mental
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health from the perspective of learning disability provides any fresh
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or helpful perspectives?
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I don't know that. If I'm honest, I think they
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probably is. I think you need if you do research
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around that topic, it needs to be done together. It
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needs to be a collaboration or I've then being researched,
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especially around mental health. Can I think if you're together,
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you know that you can support each other on their work.
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Yeah, how are you going to get like any kind
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of good quality research if you're not including people with
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the lived experience helping to guide that actual research as well.
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Yeah, something that you asked earlier about what's the things
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that also affects mental health? I think that it's the
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word take around that. For me, also, it's nighttime. Being
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alone is a major thing for me, and at nighttime
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that's when we're usually my mental health goes down because
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I used to I used to be around my mum
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a lot and my family, and now I'm on my own,
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so it's kind of I talked to my mum a lot,
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but it's like it's a different feeling and being up
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here by myself at nighttime and on the weekends, it's
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completely different. So I think that's so. I think that
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also is the loneliness. It's also a major thing.
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Yeah, I used to have that in the nighttime. I
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used to find so difficult. Yeah, it can be.
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And again, what you're saying is definitely backed up by
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research because loneliness is something which disabled people are far
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more likely to experience and non disabled people sadly, and
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so I guess this points again, doesn't it too There
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being all these factors in people's lives that are having
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that regular impact on mental health, which of course applies
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to everybody, to one's agree or another. But from what
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I can tell, from what I've seen in terms of
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the research that's been done impact disabled people, including lonely
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disabled people more so.
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Yeah, Actually, I was about to say something just ties
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right into the next question that I had, which.
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So much as that we know what we're doing, doesn't
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it isn't I know.
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Because I was thinking about the Yeah, I used to
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also find it really hard, like not you know, at
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the night time. I used to find it really hard
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if I wasn't distracted by doing loads of other stuff.
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But actually, once I got physically a lot more disabled,
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quite suddenly, that's when I actually started finding it easier
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because I've basically just invested in loads of memory, phone
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pillows and video games, and then being at home on
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my own became like you know, I was sort of
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like forced to make it really fun, and so now
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I'm good at it. I like it. Is there anything
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about your disabled identity, which you've spoken very eloquently about
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on the Disability and Dot Dot Dot podcast that kind
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of helps you with your mental health.
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Yeah, so really good question. And I don't I kind
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of separate it all. It's a really interesting thing because
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so rich is really interesting also because of me saying
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about that. I it's two different things. So I do
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separate my mental health and my learning disability and my
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self for policy differently. But I have been thinking about that.
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I'm not really sure if about my disaberty that's yeah,
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well I have as well.
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I guess in a way like the the you know
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how you were saying, like such a you know, mind
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the gap is is like a it's a disabled theater company, isn't.
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It, or learning disabled autism fit company.
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Yeah, and that and that you were saying before that
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that like that community is like you'r it's like a
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second family kind of thing. I guess in that way,
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that's like, you know, a way in which sort of
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being involved in specifically like disability stuff that's created that
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like caring community.
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Yeah, and I think, yeah, just having my friends around
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me as well, it's a major thing. That's not just
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for work. But yeah, and I used to play football
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a lot, so that also what's a major thing for me. Nice.
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Thank you so much, Paul. Is there anything else I
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want to add port about the interplay between mental health
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and learning disability.
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All I've really got to say is that everyone is
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different and no experience is the same, and to look
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after yourself some major things. And also that don't feel
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that if you are going through about day or about reek,
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that your failure because of it. We all go through
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it and there is people out there to support and
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to care.
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And yeah, a bit tearing so right.
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And to the younger generation as well, that there is
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so much out there and if you're going through a
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bad day a time, seek help, seeks the right support.
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Ka Be cares. You're all valuable.
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Thank you so much for a lovely message to end on.
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Thank you, Paul, Thank you.
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So much everyone for listening, and please tune in again
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for another episode of Lively Minds, the Mental Health Podcast.
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Please note that this show does not constitute medical advice
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and is not a replacement for seeking professional help. You
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can find signposting to support on our website at annirmedia
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dot net, forward slash lively Minds.
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Make sure you keep up to date with our shows
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by subscribing wherever you get your podcasts, and find us
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on social media at lively Minds.
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Pod, take care and buy for now.
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Bye bye bye
