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00:00:10.240How do we raise children who are brave enough to speak the truth, to act with integrity, and to trust themselves and their values, even when it is uncomfortable?
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00:00:12.800How do we raise courageous children?
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00:00:29.920In this thought-provoking conversation, Cynthia Overgard, host and executive producer of the Down to Birth podcast, unpacks the difference between courage and fearlessness, what her parents did right in fostering self-trust, and how she's carried those values into motherhood.
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00:00:44.320Cynthia also shares her candid take on today's culture of scripted parenting, and we explore her fascinating career journey from corporate vice president and university finance professor to birth education and podcasting.
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00:00:51.359Her show, Down to Birth, now ranks in the top half a percentage of podcasts worldwide.
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00:00:57.759This episode is for anyone craving more courage and authenticity in motherhood and life.
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00:01:08.079Welcome to Little Hands Bake Plans, the podcast for moms who want to reimagine work after kids and build a life where family comes first, without giving up your dreams.
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00:01:15.439I'm Amelia and I know firsthand how much motherhood shifts our careers, our priorities, and our pace.
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00:01:20.079But instead of seeing it as a setback, what if we saw it as an invitation?
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00:01:26.480An opportunity to design a life with a little more freedom, a little more presence, and a little more fulfillment.
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00:01:34.079Each week, we'll have honest conversations with moms who've shaped their work and business around what truly matters.
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00:01:41.840Whether you're considering a career pivot, dreaming of a slower pace, or just wondering what's possible, you're in the right place.
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00:01:47.439So grab a little something warm, settle in, and let's explore the possibilities together.
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00:01:58.239Cynthia, I'm so excited to talk to you today.
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00:02:08.000And I really want to learn about how you came to be so fearless and authentic and courageous.
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00:02:30.879I think one of the things that I and many of your other listeners of the Down to Birth podcast enjoy is how authentic you are and how you're able to eloquently say what your position is on many different topics, particularly as it relates to birth, to women, to other cultural issues.
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00:02:52.400And would love to learn about the things that you think your parents did right in raising you to be this way, and perhaps anything that you've carried yourself as a parent in how you raise your children to hopefully have similar courage.
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00:02:55.680Well, first, thank you for having me.
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00:02:58.879It's fun to be on this other side of a podcast.
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00:03:03.520And I don't think I would define myself as fearless.
00:03:03.520 -->
00:03:06.879I'm not sure who would define him or herself as fearless.
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00:03:10.400I would define myself as courageous.
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00:03:13.759I think that's something we can know about ourselves.
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00:03:20.080And we know we're courageous because there are times that things are really uncomfortable to do.
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00:03:23.599And we can feel afraid.
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00:03:28.240But if we really believe it's the right or ethical thing, we act anyway.
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00:03:35.199And I've had experiences since middle school where I could feel myself drawing upon courage, and it never came easily.
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00:03:37.199I never felt fearless.
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00:03:42.639But I would be disingenuous to tell you if I didn't know I'm courageous.
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00:03:44.879I do know that I'm courageous.
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00:03:48.479Not always, but it's it is a trait I have.
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00:03:54.000And what did my parents, what did they do right as parents?
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00:03:56.000I think it's pretty simple, honestly.
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00:03:58.240I think we overcomplicate parenting.
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00:04:07.280I was just telling a a woman in a women's circle a few days ago that I really believe it's hard to mess up parenting.
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00:04:09.360I know everyone believes the opposite.
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00:04:10.800Everyone believes the opposite.
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00:04:13.520They think they're gonna mess up their kids all the time.
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00:04:16.720If they have an argument with their spouse, they think they're gonna mess up their kids.
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00:04:23.759If they let their baby cry for five or 10 minutes before they go get them, they think they're gonna mess up their child's brain.
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00:04:28.800If they don't give their child something that their child wants, they think they're gonna show them they're not really loved.
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00:04:31.360I disagree with all of this very much.
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00:04:37.360And I like to put out the theory that it's hard to mess up your child.
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00:04:41.920Now, neglect and abuse, that's tragic.
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00:04:50.000There are easy ways to really harm a person if you in if they suffer neglect or abuse.
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00:04:55.839But shy of that, I think the permissive parents can raise well-adjusted children.
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00:04:58.480I think the strict parents can raise well-adjusted children.
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00:04:59.920I don't think there's a formula.
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00:05:10.639And I'm concerned in society when I see each generation now having all their opinions on, like, you know, my grandmother's generation would have said, don't hold the child too much, you'll spoil them.
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00:05:12.560I don't know what a spoiled adult looks like.
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00:05:16.959So I don't really know where they got that idea from, but what a harmful one.
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00:05:23.120So then, of course, the boomerang effect was attachment parenting, which is beautiful.
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00:05:24.879And all of that is great.
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00:05:29.360What concerns me is when parents are given scripted things to say.
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00:05:31.439My my parents would have done none of that.
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00:05:33.360Like they they just raised us.
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00:05:34.879They're great people.
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00:05:38.240I count my blessings every day for my mom and my dad.
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00:05:40.879And I have so much love and respect for them.
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00:05:42.800So they are my role models.
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00:05:50.240And I just think that if you want to raise a child who's moral or ethical, then be moral and ethical.
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00:05:58.079If you want your children to have healthy, loving friendships, then let them witness that you have healthy, loving friendships.
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00:06:00.959If you want a child who's honest, then be honest.
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00:06:02.560It's not complicated.
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00:06:06.399You should never have to tell a child stealing is wrong.
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00:06:08.720I mean, I can't imagine.
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00:06:11.839You just you embody it.
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00:06:24.720So I think when parents keep thinking what's the right thing to say, what's the and then there's this whole, there's this whole offshoot of what to say when they're um behaving a certain way.
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00:06:28.399And like this whole trend of, well, you're having really big feelings, aren't you?
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00:06:31.360Why is that now the right thing to say?
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00:06:33.199Like, why is that the right thing?
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00:06:37.439You know, there's something to be said sometimes for a little tough love.
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00:06:51.040You know, I mean, if I threw a tantrum, I'm I'm just making this up, but like if I had thrown a tantrum in a store with my mom because I wanted a candy bar, I have no doubt she would have been like, you know, stop this right now.
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00:06:56.079Like she wouldn't have been like, you're having really big feelings, and you you really wanted that candy bar, didn't you?
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00:07:01.040Like, I don't know why this is the trend, but it feels too self-indulgent to me.
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00:07:01.920Yeah.
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00:07:06.079There's so many questions that I have from that.
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00:07:25.360I that view is really it takes a lot of pressure off to know that if you are a certain way, you'd be able to pass that on to your kids, hopefully, because they see it by example.
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00:07:42.639But I'm also thinking about what about the things that we want to improve about ourselves that we want our child to embody that for some reason we don't feel that way, then what do you do in those situations?
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00:07:54.800Or what would you do if you had a trait that you wanted to pass on and you wanted to but you didn't necessarily feel equipped to model it?
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00:08:06.639Well, I think the first thing is that you are not going to succeed at hiding from your children exactly who you are.
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00:08:16.639And I think when we have our first little newborn baby, we have this fantasy that we are just gonna be these wonderful, perfect mothers.
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00:08:19.759And that's a heck of a lot of pressure to put on ourselves.
00:08:19.759 -->
00:08:31.439There is no way you have a trait or a habit or a quirk or a quality that your children don't know about intimately.
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00:08:36.399They are staring at you and studying you their entire childhoods.
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00:08:40.480I mean, I know my parents cold.
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00:08:43.279I know my parents so well.
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00:08:49.919Every little glance, every little, I can almost read the thoughts as they're saying something.
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00:08:53.440If I and I I know my children know me this well.
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00:08:58.159So first we have to relieve ourselves of the pressure that we have to be a certain way.
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00:09:04.000You have to trust that children are the most loving among us.
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00:09:07.759Children are incredibly loving and forgiving.
00:09:07.759 -->
00:09:12.320It breaks my heart to think of how loving and forgiving children are.
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00:09:23.759There are children who grow up in abusive homes or with alcoholic or drug-abusing parents who half neglect them, and those children are still prepared to love their parents.
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00:09:26.799And I don't think we have to worry about that.
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00:09:32.399I think we have to obviously the home shouldn't not at all be abusive or neglectful.
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00:09:35.600For example, I've changed myself through my parenting years.
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00:09:38.559My children right now are 20 and 16.
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00:09:49.600And there was a day when I was chopping vegetables, as I feel like I've done for half of their childhood, standing at my spot in the kitchen preparing a meal and chopping vegetables.
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00:09:51.440And they were always telling stories.
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00:09:53.519You know how children are, they're always telling stories.
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00:09:58.639And one of my children was telling me a story, and I was, I was like, uh-huh, yeah, yeah.
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00:10:08.720And I was watching my food and half listening, or I was listening, and I just realized like, how much of the time were they looking at me and I'm not looking back at them?
00:10:08.720 -->
00:10:10.960I just noticed this.
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00:10:14.639I'm like, they're looking, they're watching me, and my eyes are on something else.
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00:10:19.200So I just put the knife down and I turned and looked at them and smiled and listened.
00:10:19.200 -->
00:10:22.799And I just let them meet my eye contact while I listened.
00:10:22.799 -->
00:10:24.320And I was like, oh, this is new.
00:10:24.320 -->
00:10:26.799Just for me to not multitask for a second.
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00:10:29.279Now we have to multitask all the time as parents.
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00:10:31.120But I just became self-aware.
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00:10:42.159There was a time I noticed I interrupted them all the time because they tell stories and maybe it's going a little slowly, or you're helping them get the words out, or you get the point already, and you're kind of like, oh, yeah.
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00:10:45.600So and I noticed, like, why am I interrupting them?
00:10:45.600 -->
00:10:53.600So I made a really significant change in myself, which was not easy to stop interrupting them all the time.
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00:10:55.440I don't feel bad about that.
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00:11:01.200Now it's something I'm happy to talk to them about and say, Yeah, I noticed I used to interrupt you guys a lot, and I've really worked at that.
00:11:01.200 -->
00:11:06.399And please call me out on that if I'm interrupting you when you're talking to me, because I don't want to do that.
00:11:07.200 -->
00:11:20.000I like that view also of seeing your because every child is gonna need something different, and just the wanting to allow ourselves to be taught by them.
00:11:20.000 -->
00:11:42.000There's the one end of the parenting spectrum, which is the all about feelings side, but then there's the other side too, where I think it goes too far the other way, where it's almost the children are always told, told what to do and put in their place and doing, being a certain way.
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00:11:55.200And I do think that there's a lot of value in letting them also teach us what they need because they are each gonna have different needs.
00:11:55.200 -->
00:12:05.120And that story that you told reminded me of I think it's even harder now to with the phones, in a way, uh that's something that I struggle with.
00:12:05.120 -->
00:12:11.360And lately, my little three-year-old has been telling me, he goes, Mama, look at me.
00:12:11.360 -->
00:12:21.120You know, like he reminds me, even though I'm paying attention, you're not, he can feel that I'm not focused on him and what he's trying to tell me.
00:12:21.120 -->
00:12:34.240And it's definitely been such a wake-up call to, okay, you're telling me a story, I want eye contact because one day when you're a teenager or however old right now, I think I don't want my child to have a cell phone until after 18.
00:12:34.240 -->
00:12:44.480But you know, I'm gonna want to also have conversations, and I'm not gonna like it when you're on your phone or on your computer or doing something else.
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00:12:54.080So when you were first a mom, was there similar cultural trends as it is now?
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00:12:58.720Or do you remember what was trendy back then as a parenting style?
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00:13:00.799That's interesting.
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00:13:09.600It's a little hard to remember, but the one I remember that we absolutely did not follow was timeouts were really, really big.
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00:13:11.840It was still the end of the time.
00:13:11.840 -->
00:13:12.960I don't know, is that still big?
00:13:12.960 -->
00:13:14.159Are people still doing timeouts?
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00:13:15.200I don't hear about it as much.
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00:13:20.240I think a little bit, but I don't think it's as big as it was before.
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00:13:24.559Timeouts were like everything in the 90s and early 2000s.
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00:13:28.080And my daughter was, my son was born in 05, my daughter in 09.
00:13:28.080 -->
00:13:31.759And when my son was born, it was still just like that's what parenting did.
00:13:31.759 -->
00:13:36.080And they thought it was so gentle because the previous generation or before that one, they used to hit kids.
00:13:36.080 -->
00:13:44.480So they're like, well, we're not hitting them, or we're having them sit on a step or go sit there, and you have a timeout, and it's going to equal as many minutes as your age.
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00:13:46.879We never did this once.
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00:13:57.120I I followed Alfie Cohn, a researcher who just I think changed us so much as parents, and he was really against punishments and rewards.
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00:14:02.000And I raised my children, we raised our children without punishments and without rewards.
00:14:02.000 -->
00:14:05.120That's something I am very, very happy about.
00:14:05.120 -->
00:14:06.879It's not always easy.
00:14:06.879 -->
00:14:16.399There are times that you really want to motivate them, and punishing someone is a great motivator, and rewarding them is a great motivator.
00:14:16.399 -->
00:14:26.240But when you think about the kind of child you want to raise, the kind of adult you want to end up with and raise, this is not the way to do it.
00:14:26.240 -->
00:14:35.679I mean, ultimately, my my model for what for my approach to raising children personally was to raise them with respect.
00:14:35.679 -->
00:14:50.480If you take a random example of a child leaving the house on a rainy day, walking out to the bus and forgetting their umbrella, or like it's gonna rain later that afternoon and it's getting cloudy and they forget their umbrella.
00:14:50.480 -->
00:14:54.000How many, how big of a deal do parents make of a moment like that?
00:14:54.000 -->
00:14:55.279What did I tell you?
00:14:55.279 -->
00:14:57.200Remember what we said about the weather?
00:14:57.200 -->
00:14:58.080What do you need?
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00:15:00.000Come on, what do you what did you miss?
00:15:00.000 -->
00:15:00.639Uh-huh.
00:15:00.639 -->
00:15:01.120Right.
00:15:01.120 -->
00:15:01.519Uh-huh.
00:15:01.519 -->
00:15:02.480Take your umbrella.
00:15:02.480 -->
00:15:05.279Now, that's that is just exhausting.
00:15:05.279 -->
00:15:08.639It's patronizing, it's unnecessary.
00:15:08.639 -->
00:15:11.919That tone of voice is just awful.
00:15:11.919 -->
00:15:17.279It's just like nobody, nobody is going to benefit from an interaction like that as a child.
00:15:17.279 -->
00:15:20.960They could feel a little bit embarrassed, a little bit, like you don't need to make a thing of it.
00:15:20.960 -->
00:15:26.399Now imagine if your best friend leaves your house, they showed up in the rain, they brought an umbrella, and they walk out without the umbrella.
00:15:26.399 -->
00:15:28.000You just go, oh, your umbrella.
00:15:28.000 -->
00:15:29.759Oh, remember your umbrella.
00:15:29.759 -->
00:15:32.399You don't have a whole thing to say about it.
00:15:32.399 -->
00:15:38.960So I just asked myself, am I am I basically speaking to them as someone I respect?
00:15:38.960 -->
00:15:47.679And when you look at the timeouts, the whole thing around that is it's never about whether anything is effective.
00:15:47.679 -->
00:15:50.480There are a lot of things that are highly effective, right?
00:15:50.480 -->
00:15:53.679I mean, hitting children was probably very effective.
00:15:53.679 -->
00:15:57.360But what the heck purpose did that serve?
00:15:57.360 -->
00:15:57.840Great.
00:15:57.840 -->
00:16:00.720So now your child is afraid you're gonna physically hurt them.
00:16:00.720 -->
00:16:06.559So to me, timeouts obviously are a lot more harmless than that.
00:16:06.559 -->
00:16:13.840But the message is like you are basically getting a break from me, which is very punishing to a child.
00:16:13.840 -->
00:16:19.759You're getting a break from interaction, from eye contact, from being seen and heard.
00:16:19.759 -->
00:16:24.000And it might be short, but are they really sitting there learning a lesson in empathy?
00:16:24.000 -->
00:16:28.320They're that it so we didn't do that at all.
00:16:28.960 -->
00:16:29.600Not at all.
00:16:29.840 -->
00:16:30.159Yeah.
00:16:30.639 -->
00:16:43.360So how would you handle a toddler hitting or um not being kind to either themselves or a younger sibling?
00:16:43.360 -->
00:16:52.000And I guess having impulse control at the time because it's developmentally appropriate for their age.
00:16:52.000 -->
00:16:57.039What how does that work in the no punishments or rewards?
00:16:57.440 -->
00:17:07.519Well, what stands out to me, well, look, there are times a child will walk by a table and grab scissors, and you don't sit there and you don't, first of all, you don't give them a timeout for it.
00:17:07.519 -->
00:17:10.240You don't give them a lecture for it, you grab the scissors out of their hands.
00:17:10.240 -->
00:17:14.160It's unacceptable for them to pick up scissors, it's unacceptable for them to hit a child.
00:17:14.160 -->
00:17:18.400But what jumps out to me in what you said was you just said it that it's not kind.
00:17:18.400 -->
00:17:22.480And to me, this is where things start to get complicated.
00:17:22.480 -->
00:17:28.400Now imagine a two-year-old playing outside in nature, crouching down in that little squat way that they love to sit.
00:17:28.400 -->
00:17:34.960There's they're crouched down looking at ants, and they might take their finger and press down and squash an ant.
00:17:34.960 -->
00:17:39.359Now that's some that's not something I would do.
00:17:39.359 -->
00:17:43.839But as a two-year-old, if I ever did such a thing, it would have been normal.
00:17:43.839 -->
00:17:48.720It would have had no been no reflection on the kind of empathetic, sensitive person I am.
00:17:48.720 -->
00:17:54.640And it would have been very confusing to my little brain if an ad if a parent came over and said that wasn't kind.
00:17:54.640 -->
00:17:58.880So now you're talking about the motive of the child.
00:17:58.880 -->
00:18:02.400If you have a two-year-old who hits their sibling, it's unacceptable.
00:18:02.400 -->
00:18:03.119They can't do it.
00:18:03.119 -->
00:18:07.039You can't sit there and have a whole story and try to make them feel the empathy for their child.
00:18:07.039 -->
00:18:08.160We don't hit.
00:18:08.160 -->
00:18:09.680That's it.
00:18:09.680 -->
00:18:16.720But to make a thing about it, to try to force empathy and teach it and have them think about it, it's not how it works.
00:18:16.720 -->
00:18:19.839You know, they did, they learned so much from Helen Keller.
00:18:19.839 -->
00:18:23.119As everybody knows, she was born deaf and blind.
00:18:23.119 -->
00:18:27.359And she became a human being who could speak fluently, right?
00:18:27.359 -->
00:18:35.039And this is just mind-blowing that we could ever have been able, as a human race, to study someone who once was without any language.
00:18:35.039 -->
00:18:39.839So that means without the thoughts that we have, we think in words most of the time.
00:18:39.839 -->
00:18:44.480And she didn't have that and eventually became an articulate adult.
00:18:44.480 -->
00:18:46.799So we learned a lot from her.
00:18:46.799 -->
00:19:02.400And one of the most fascinating things that society has been able to learn from Helen Keller is that when she reflected on being, say, six years old, if she had an afternoon where she was just acting out and knocking over furniture in the home, knocking over lamps, right?
00:19:02.400 -->
00:19:04.400She couldn't see anything, she couldn't hear anything.
00:19:04.400 -->
00:19:07.039She had times of just knocking things over.
00:19:07.039 -->
00:19:14.720She was able to say later, reflecting back on that, I didn't even know what I was feeling.
00:19:14.720 -->
00:19:17.519I can't tell you if I was lonely.
00:19:17.519 -->
00:19:19.519I can't tell you if I was angry.
00:19:19.519 -->
00:19:21.440I can't tell you if I was scared.
00:19:21.440 -->
00:19:30.000I didn't have any vocabulary whatsoever to apply to what was going on with me physiologically and in my heart.
00:19:30.000 -->
00:19:31.440I didn't have language.
00:19:31.440 -->
00:19:34.000It's almost the same for a two-year-old.
00:19:34.000 -->
00:19:41.519So we have to be so careful of saying things like, oh, he's jealous of the baby, or, oh, that wasn't kind.
00:19:41.519 -->
00:19:44.559I'm really getting allergic to this word kind lately.
00:19:44.559 -->
00:19:48.160I think this word has been so problematic in the past 10 years.
00:19:48.160 -->
00:19:51.200I can't believe how this word has changed now for me.
00:19:51.200 -->
00:19:52.880But I think that's the thing.
00:19:52.880 -->
00:19:57.039If you see a toddler hitting a baby, just see the facts.
00:19:57.039 -->
00:19:59.039My toddler is hitting my baby.
00:19:59.039 -->
00:20:00.720Well, this can't happen.
00:20:00.720 -->
00:20:01.920So let's stop this.
00:20:01.920 -->
00:20:03.680Pick up the toddler, pick up the baby.
00:20:03.680 -->
00:20:05.680Say you cannot hit the baby.
00:20:05.680 -->
00:20:10.640But let's let's be careful of the narrative because now you're going to teach them what to make of it.
00:20:10.960 -->
00:20:13.119Yeah, I completely agree.
00:20:13.119 -->
00:20:23.759I definitely think that's something that I'm working on because part of I think the struggle sometimes of having a three-year-old that's very articulate.
00:20:23.759 -->
00:20:35.759And the chiropractor that we worked with told me you have to be sometimes it's tough for them because they appear older than they are and they're still so young.
00:20:35.759 -->
00:20:50.319When you were thinking about your career and going to school, choosing what to study, what path you were going to take, was motherhood something that you took into consideration?
00:20:51.839 -->
00:20:52.240Yes.
00:20:52.240 -->
00:20:57.279It's funny looking back because it's just funny when I look back.
00:20:57.279 -->
00:21:01.200You know, I never knew the course that I would follow.
00:21:01.200 -->
00:21:04.640I never had long-term visions.
00:21:04.640 -->
00:21:09.519I still don't for what I'll be doing with my life because I don't agree with that.
00:21:09.519 -->
00:21:14.319I I've I've loved how I've lived my life and I followed what I call impulses.
00:21:14.319 -->
00:21:17.039Like I had a pull towards something, I pursued it.
00:21:17.039 -->
00:21:19.920There are people who don't pursue things they have a pull toward.
00:21:19.920 -->
00:21:21.279I do pursue them.
00:21:21.279 -->
00:21:27.119And by the same token, I won't declare where I'll be in five years or what I'll want to be doing because who knows?
00:21:27.119 -->
00:21:29.359I'm just always checking in with myself.
00:21:29.359 -->
00:21:34.079Like if I'm have a podcast going on season seven starting in January, who knew?
00:21:34.079 -->
00:21:35.519We're still having a great time.
00:21:35.519 -->
00:21:36.480We're still loving this.
00:21:36.480 -->
00:21:36.880Yep.
00:21:36.880 -->
00:21:39.680We're good, we're starting, you're kicking off season seven.
00:21:39.680 -->
00:21:42.880Year by year, I'm just gonna keep doing what's fun and exciting.
00:21:42.880 -->
00:21:50.319So after college, where I studied sociology and I sort of had a minor in Spanish.
00:21:50.319 -->
00:21:52.960I was a Spanish tutor and I loved, I love languages.
00:21:52.960 -->
00:21:54.319So I got really into Spanish.
00:21:54.319 -->
00:22:02.720And that became a big part of my um undergrad education and lifestyle and um studied sociology, which was one of the best educational decisions I made.
00:22:02.720 -->
00:22:06.799I started grad school to get my MBA at a young age of 23.
00:22:06.799 -->
00:22:13.839And um I only chose finance because it was the one subject that scared the heck out of me.
00:22:13.839 -->
00:22:15.759I had never taken a finance class.
00:22:15.759 -->
00:22:22.240When I saw the options when I got into grad school and I saw all the possible majors, my first thought was anything but finance.
00:22:22.240 -->
00:22:24.079And then that thought haunted me.
00:22:24.079 -->
00:22:26.720I was like, what the heck was that message going through my brain?
00:22:26.720 -->
00:22:27.680Anything but finance.
00:22:27.680 -->
00:22:29.759So suddenly I started to think, well, what if?
00:22:29.759 -->
00:22:33.440What if I pursued the very thing that is scaring me so much?
00:22:33.440 -->
00:22:34.240And I did.
00:22:34.240 -->
00:22:40.640And turned out I was cut out for finance and I loved finance, and it was a wonderful time of my life.
00:22:40.640 -->
00:22:43.440I was working full-time and going to grad school.
00:22:43.440 -->
00:22:46.880I ended up going full-time, which was nine credits for grad school.
00:22:46.880 -->
00:22:51.119So I was very busy working full-time and taking three courses a semester.
00:22:51.119 -->
00:22:54.799And then I came to Connecticut.
00:22:54.799 -->
00:22:58.079GE Capital, now called GE Money, hired me.
00:22:58.079 -->
00:22:59.440So that was very exciting.
00:22:59.440 -->
00:23:01.680It was like the company to work for at the time.
00:23:01.680 -->
00:23:12.960So I came to Connecticut and then UConn hired me as a finance professor four years later, which I did for 10 years through meeting my husband, getting married, having our children.
00:23:12.960 -->
00:23:15.039And I was just a born teacher.
00:23:15.039 -->
00:23:16.000I know that now.
00:23:16.000 -->
00:23:17.839I loved tutoring Spanish.
00:23:17.839 -->
00:23:19.839I was really good at tutoring and I loved it.
00:23:19.839 -->
00:23:22.160And then I loved teaching finance.
00:23:22.160 -->
00:23:23.599I mean, absolutely loved it.
00:23:23.599 -->
00:23:26.000I think being a professor is a dream job.
00:23:26.000 -->
00:23:32.240And now teaching childbirth for 18 years, I just I love teaching.
00:23:32.240 -->
00:23:33.759Did I have that vision?
00:23:33.759 -->
00:23:34.160No.
00:23:34.160 -->
00:23:37.599When I got my MBA, it's funny.
00:23:37.599 -->
00:23:43.920My thought was I know one day I'm gonna be married and have children, and I know I want to raise my children myself.
00:23:43.920 -->
00:23:45.759I know I'm going to be home with my children.
00:23:45.759 -->
00:23:49.920That was like my little secret I kept to myself because I looked so ambitious in the workforce.
00:23:49.920 -->
00:23:50.960I was really into my job.
00:23:50.960 -->
00:23:51.759I traveled a lot.
00:23:51.759 -->
00:23:54.240I was, it was a very exciting career.
00:23:54.240 -->
00:24:01.119And I just nursed the knowledge that one day when I have children, I'm gonna be raising them.
00:24:01.119 -->
00:24:03.200That was the most important thing to me.
00:24:03.200 -->
00:24:15.200So I thought it's kind of funny, but I got the MBA, so I thought, as a strategic move to make it easier to get into the workforce, the corporate workforce, once my children started school.
00:24:15.200 -->
00:24:16.559I laugh at that now.
00:24:16.559 -->
00:24:20.480Like there was no way I was gonna go back into corporate when my children started school.
00:24:20.480 -->
00:24:21.839There was no way I was gonna do that.
00:24:21.839 -->
00:24:23.759It was not the lifestyle I wanted.
00:24:24.000 -->
00:24:24.559Yeah.
00:24:24.799 -->
00:24:29.920So it did give me the opportunity to fulfill a lot of things I needed to fulfill.
00:24:29.920 -->
00:24:34.160I needed to have a rigorous education.
00:24:34.160 -->
00:24:35.680I needed to travel the world.
00:24:35.680 -->
00:24:38.960I needed to do the exciting things I always thought about.
00:24:38.960 -->
00:24:40.720I had to fulfill that.
00:24:40.720 -->
00:24:48.799And I'm very grateful I did because by the time I had children, when I resigned, I was at MasterCard at that point as a VP in risk management.
00:24:48.799 -->
00:24:52.079I didn't tell people I left to raise my children.
00:24:52.079 -->
00:24:54.160I told everyone I resigned from corporate America.
00:24:54.160 -->
00:24:56.720I knew I was done with that chapter.
00:24:56.720 -->
00:24:58.319I had fulfilled it.
00:24:58.319 -->
00:25:01.680And I didn't quite know what was next other than mothering.
00:25:01.680 -->
00:25:04.640I what happened was I just became compelled again.
00:25:04.640 -->
00:25:06.079I became obsessed with birth.
00:25:06.079 -->
00:25:08.319I started publishing in the field.
00:25:08.319 -->
00:25:12.559That ultimately became unsatisfying because I didn't have connection to other people.
00:25:12.559 -->
00:25:14.720So I got educated to teach.
00:25:14.720 -->
00:25:16.240That became really huge.
00:25:16.240 -->
00:25:18.960I ended up with my own prenatal center in Connecticut.
00:25:18.960 -->
00:25:24.559I was the only one to own to have this whole center with this revolving door of couples who came through to get educated.
00:25:24.559 -->
00:25:27.920That was wonderful, fulfilling, incredible work.
00:25:27.920 -->
00:25:31.359And I closed it in March of 2020.
00:25:31.359 -->
00:25:36.240And lucky for me, I kicked off this pot, the podcast down to birth three months earlier.
00:25:36.240 -->
00:25:44.000So it was incredible timing because you know, like, who knew the podcast was going to become the primary crux of my work?
00:25:44.000 -->
00:25:46.720And that I would ever have to close my prenatal center.
00:25:46.720 -->
00:25:48.720So it's just all unfolded really well.
00:25:48.720 -->
00:25:52.160And I think it's just by following what we're really passionate about.
00:25:54.240 -->
00:26:00.000So you didn't leave corporate America because I guess that's an assumption that I always have.
00:26:00.000 -->
00:26:11.279You know, when someone leaves, I just think, oh, it's because the hours were so crazy and they wanted to, their priorities shifted to want to be more present for their children.
00:26:11.279 -->
00:26:14.880But it sounds like the timing for you was before you became a mother.
00:26:14.880 -->
00:26:19.039You had already made that decision that you were going to pursue something else.
00:26:19.279 -->
00:26:22.240I it's not that I was going to pursue anything else.
00:26:22.240 -->
00:26:26.000I knew I was going to be home with my children.
00:26:26.000 -->
00:26:32.559I knew if I was going to give birth, there was no way in heck I was going to let anyone else raise them but me.
00:26:32.559 -->
00:26:34.960It's just like, otherwise, why will I have them?
00:26:34.960 -->
00:26:36.720That those were my values.
00:26:36.720 -->
00:26:40.960Now, if they're, you know, we live in a culture now where some women listening might read into that.
00:26:40.960 -->
00:26:42.960It does she judge me, I have different choices.
00:26:42.960 -->
00:26:44.079No, that's ridiculous.
00:26:44.079 -->
00:26:44.880And this is what I mean.
00:26:44.880 -->
00:26:49.920Why would anyone listening worry about whether I have opinions on what they're doing?
00:26:49.920 -->
00:26:52.559They can just as easily have opinions on what I did.
00:26:52.559 -->
00:26:55.440I run a postpartum group and the women do everything.
00:26:55.440 -->
00:26:59.279Some of them go back to work, some of them hate going back to work and they cry and they dread it.
00:26:59.279 -->
00:27:02.559A few of them like to go back to work and they're thrilled to have their career.
00:27:02.559 -->
00:27:06.559Others are thrilled to resign, even though money is tight and they're happy to be home.
00:27:06.559 -->
00:27:10.640We're all entitled to doing what we're pulled to do.
00:27:10.640 -->
00:27:12.640That's the that's the answer.
00:27:12.640 -->
00:27:20.960So when I talk about my life, I should be liberated to talk about my life and allow others to be liberated to talk about theirs.
00:27:20.960 -->
00:27:25.599And that's that there's so much fear, and there's so much of women apologizing.
00:27:25.599 -->
00:27:27.119I'm not judging anyone else.
00:27:27.119 -->
00:27:28.799I'm not saying what's right for others.
00:27:28.799 -->
00:27:34.960Why, why can't we just be free to listen to anyone talk about their decisions?
00:27:34.960 -->
00:27:40.079And that's why these thoughts go through my mind because so much of my lifestyle is interviewing other women.
00:27:40.079 -->
00:27:43.359And I call I stop them from the apologizing.
00:27:43.599 -->
00:27:43.839Yeah.
00:27:44.079 -->
00:27:49.599I just had a woman on my podcast, actually, a very well-known woman, Emily Vonti.
00:27:49.599 -->
00:27:52.480She's got this huge platform on Instagram.
00:27:52.480 -->
00:27:56.319And she said, All my births have been beautiful.
00:27:56.319 -->
00:28:02.720And then she went into this little thing like, I mean, I know that's hard for people to hear, and I just I don't mean anything but I'm just saying for me.
00:28:02.720 -->
00:28:07.759And I said, Emily, you're allowed to say birth has gone beautifully for you.
00:28:07.759 -->
00:28:09.440You don't need to feel bad about that.
00:28:09.440 -->
00:28:11.519You don't have to take care of other people's feelings.
00:28:11.519 -->
00:28:18.240We all have a deep heart for women who have anything that hurts them through birth.
00:28:18.240 -->
00:28:22.880I mean, my life's work is around longing for women to feel at peace with their births.
00:28:22.880 -->
00:28:25.440So I definitely have that same heart.
00:28:25.440 -->
00:28:36.559But I also don't want women fearing sharing their stories because we need to hear each other's stories, whatever they are, and we need to be free to share our opinions.
00:28:36.559 -->
00:28:39.200That's the other thing about what's going on in society right now.
00:28:39.200 -->
00:28:41.279It's not okay to share opinions anymore.
00:28:41.599 -->
00:28:46.240Where do you think that comes from or where what shifted culturally?
00:28:46.240 -->
00:28:51.680Because when you were speaking about that, the first thing that came to my mind is breastfeeding.
00:28:51.680 -->
00:29:06.880If you share too much about breastfeeding, a lot of the times it's seen, you see the comments on somebody saying, Well, don't shame people that have to do formula or choose to do formula or for their mental health do formula.
00:29:06.880 -->
00:29:11.200And it sounds like it wasn't like that before.
00:29:11.599 -->
00:29:12.480This is what I mean.
00:29:12.480 -->
00:29:14.240That's a perfect example.
00:29:14.240 -->
00:29:18.559When we started our podcast, Trisha is an IBCLC.
00:29:18.559 -->
00:29:21.279She's extraordinarily informed in breastfeeding.
00:29:21.279 -->
00:29:23.279She has so much to share.
00:29:23.279 -->
00:29:29.279For anyone to say you're shaming women who don't breastfeed, it's like, I just want to say, what are you even talking about?
00:29:29.279 -->
00:29:32.000You can listen to a different podcast.
00:29:32.000 -->
00:29:46.799You we like, how can a woman who's really into breastfeeding and needs the support and education find anyone out there if everyone is apologetic and pontificating and trying to trying to stay careful and worrying about everyone's feelings and this and the what value is that?
00:29:46.799 -->
00:29:51.920Everyone is going to be drawn to the podcast of anything that they want to listen to.
00:29:51.920 -->
00:29:54.000And you avoid that which you don't.
00:29:54.000 -->
00:29:55.759And it's also not true.
00:29:55.759 -->
00:29:59.920There isn't judgment to say anything positive about breastfeeding.
00:29:59.920 -->
00:30:02.559Is to say nothing about formula feeding.
00:30:02.559 -->
00:30:05.599We don't need to say that's also fine if that's your choice.
00:30:05.599 -->
00:30:07.680Who am I to say that's also fine?
00:30:07.680 -->
00:30:09.839I'm not here to give you permission.
00:30:09.839 -->
00:30:19.200Who that would be so arrogant, in my opinion, for me to feel the need to say it's also fine if you want to get an induction and it's also okay if you want to return to work.
00:30:19.200 -->
00:30:21.839Who asked my opinion on whether it's okay?
00:30:22.000 -->
00:30:22.240Yeah.
00:30:22.480 -->
00:30:23.359Of course it's okay.
00:30:23.359 -->
00:30:25.200You're because you're free.
00:30:25.200 -->
00:30:28.160So why do you need me on my podcast?
00:30:28.160 -->
00:30:31.680And no one is saying this, but why should I have to say that?
00:30:31.680 -->
00:30:37.119I would feel that would feel very arrogant to me for me to have to tell women what's okay.
00:30:37.119 -->
00:30:40.319Can we just be liberated to just speak?
00:30:40.319 -->
00:30:42.240That that's all we need to do.
00:30:42.240 -->
00:30:44.079And it's people's choice to listen.
00:30:44.079 -->
00:30:47.119But that's why I don't do trigger warnings.
00:30:47.119 -->
00:30:54.559I don't believe in trigger warnings because it's a coddling of society that concerns me.
00:30:54.559 -->
00:30:58.000Like people can handle their own emotions.
00:30:58.000 -->
00:31:02.559I want very much to trust that adults can handle their emotions.
00:31:02.559 -->
00:31:05.039And if they can't, they can turn off the podcast.
00:31:05.039 -->
00:31:08.240Our 14th episode was a stillbirth round table.
00:31:08.240 -->
00:31:10.000That was not that took some thought.
00:31:10.000 -->
00:31:11.279Are we really doing this?
00:31:11.279 -->
00:31:13.279Are we really in our 14th episode?
00:31:13.279 -->
00:31:15.599We have 350 something now, I think.
00:31:15.599 -->
00:31:18.960Really gonna put out an episode of three women sharing their stillbirth stories?
00:31:18.960 -->
00:31:20.240Yes, we are.
00:31:20.240 -->
00:31:22.559Because it's valuable.
00:31:22.559 -->
00:31:28.559And the second half of the conversation was what did people do that served you?
00:31:28.559 -->
00:31:33.680And what did they do that didn't serve you when you needed all the support that you needed after losing a baby?
00:31:33.680 -->
00:31:36.400But we didn't do a trigger warning.
00:31:36.400 -->
00:31:41.200Because people can read read the subject, they can turn it off.
00:31:41.200 -->
00:31:42.559They're adults.
00:31:42.559 -->
00:31:44.240I turn off things I don't want to listen to.
00:31:44.240 -->
00:31:48.880If I start to hear start hearing about something of an animal being hurt or a child being hurt, I just flip it off.
00:31:48.880 -->
00:31:54.079And I don't hold the producer responsible for my feelings.
00:31:54.079 -->
00:31:56.400Those are that's not their problem.
00:31:56.799 -->
00:32:00.000What drew you to podcasting originally?
00:32:00.319 -->
00:32:04.640This is a character trait of mine, and it's gonna sound like a really cool character trait.
00:32:04.640 -->
00:32:05.920And I'm not trying to do that.
00:32:05.920 -->
00:32:06.319Okay.
00:32:06.319 -->
00:32:14.720I'm just I'm just sharing that this is something very long, a very long time well-established quality in me.
00:32:14.720 -->
00:32:16.400And I don't know why it's there.
00:32:16.400 -->
00:32:29.359When an idea gets planted in my mind that makes me feel a little bit nervous and a little bit excited, I never ignore it.
00:32:29.359 -->
00:32:30.400Ever.
00:32:30.400 -->
00:32:38.160So when I was graduating college at the end of my senior year, my dad called me and encouraged me to take the GMAT and go to grad school.
00:32:38.160 -->
00:32:39.680And I was like, Dad, I just want to work.
00:32:39.680 -->
00:32:40.640I just want to make money.
00:32:40.640 -->
00:32:41.599I've been working so hard.
00:32:41.599 -->
00:32:42.720I've got 19 credits.
00:32:42.720 -->
00:32:43.839I'm fine, I'm finishing.
00:32:43.839 -->
00:32:46.640I know, I know, but you're on a roll.
00:32:46.640 -->
00:32:47.279That's it.
00:32:47.279 -->
00:32:49.440That one conversation, he planted the seed.
00:32:49.440 -->
00:32:52.880And I applied to grad school a year later when I was working full-time.
00:32:52.880 -->
00:32:56.480And then that little thought, like anything but finance, that's it.
00:32:56.480 -->
00:32:57.440There she goes.
00:32:57.440 -->
00:33:01.839She identified a fear that just tiny, tiny 2% excited her.
00:33:01.839 -->
00:33:03.680Now she's compelled to pursue it.
00:33:03.680 -->
00:33:06.559That was that's how I look back and see what happened there.
00:33:06.559 -->
00:33:09.039So the same thing happened with a podcast.
00:33:09.039 -->
00:33:12.400I always used to describe myself as not technical at all.
00:33:12.400 -->
00:33:14.640I refuse to say that about myself now.
00:33:14.640 -->
00:33:20.240I think I do a really good job editing and producing my podcast, but it scared the heck out of me.
00:33:20.240 -->
00:33:22.319And it was clients who told me to have one.
00:33:22.319 -->
00:33:25.039They used to tell me sometimes to do TED Talks.
00:33:25.039 -->
00:33:31.200And once or twice people started saying, Do you have a podcast or you should have a podcast?
00:33:31.200 -->
00:33:32.240And I was like, What?
00:33:32.240 -->
00:33:34.079I'm not even sure what a podcast is.
00:33:34.079 -->
00:33:35.279But it stuck.
00:33:35.279 -->
00:33:36.960It really stuck.
00:33:36.960 -->
00:33:43.519And uh Trisha and I were together one day, brought her in to co-run my postpartum soap work group for a while.
00:33:43.519 -->
00:33:45.599And we were became very, very close friends.
00:33:45.599 -->
00:33:49.920And I was like, would you be open to talking about starting a podcast?
00:33:49.920 -->
00:33:52.400And she was she was down with it.
00:33:52.400 -->
00:33:53.519So that was it.
00:33:53.519 -->
00:33:55.039It was the seed was planted.
00:33:55.039 -->
00:33:57.119I was a little nervous, I was a little excited.
00:33:57.119 -->
00:33:59.680I definitely hated the idea of anything technical.
00:33:59.680 -->
00:34:01.279I thought, I definitely can't do that.
00:34:01.279 -->
00:34:02.880So I don't know who's gonna do that for me.
00:34:02.880 -->
00:34:03.920I was wrong.
00:34:03.920 -->
00:34:05.200I could do it.
00:34:05.200 -->
00:34:06.079It was hard.
00:34:06.079 -->
00:34:10.400I stayed up too late, far too many months to learn what I had to learn.
00:34:10.400 -->
00:34:11.840But I'm I'm proud of that.
00:34:11.840 -->
00:34:16.159I pursued something that really provoked fear and it's become so fulfilling.
00:34:16.159 -->
00:34:17.119Why did I do it?
00:34:17.119 -->
00:34:24.480Because hilariously, back in 2019, when we started, I thought I had a lot to teach.
00:34:24.480 -->
00:34:29.519And now I can say all these years later, I had so much to learn.
00:34:29.519 -->
00:34:32.159I can't believe how much we've learned.
00:34:32.639 -->
00:34:33.920That's my favorite thing.
00:34:33.920 -->
00:34:36.800Every time I record a podcast, I learn so much.
00:34:36.800 -->
00:34:42.719And it leaves me for weeks thinking about the conversation and the things that were said.
00:34:42.719 -->
00:34:45.840And I think it's so interesting.
00:34:45.840 -->
00:35:04.960I think we've talked a lot about the benefits for personally and for others too, about having the courage to speak our mind, to take positions, even if they're not popular, to speak the truth.
00:35:04.960 -->
00:35:08.800But sometimes that also comes at a cost.
00:35:08.800 -->
00:35:28.239Like a friend might decide that you're not a good person if you have a certain belief, or that you're not kind again with that word, if you don't agree with something else.
00:35:28.239 -->
00:35:38.079Can you talk about if you've experienced that and what your views are on that?
00:35:38.079 -->
00:36:03.519Because I've experienced that recently, and especially the first time that it happened, that I just said what I believed in in something that at the time I didn't even realize was controversial, but it it had very heavy personal consequences.
00:36:03.519 -->
00:36:23.679Um and it left me for a while not wanting to share my opinion because it didn't it didn't change my opinion, the other person's opinion, and I just felt that the loss in relationship was not worth that.
00:36:23.679 -->
00:36:45.599But then when it happened again, I was left thinking, well, if they value our relationship so little that us having, I can't even say, you know, what my opinion is, then is that something, is that a relationship that is a positive relationship?
00:36:45.599 -->
00:36:49.920And what would I, you know, what would I hope for my children?
00:36:49.920 -->
00:37:04.559And a lot of times now that's a lens that I didn't have before, that I always have in the back of my mind, because I think sometimes we have higher hopes for our children than we do for ourselves.
00:37:04.559 -->
00:37:20.400At least for me, sometimes I find that when I think about it that way, you know, would I want my my daughter or my son to act this way or to not feel that they can speak what they believe to save a friendship?
00:37:20.400 -->
00:37:23.920I don't think I would want that for them.
00:37:27.599 -->
00:37:29.199Well, there's so much there.
00:37:29.199 -->
00:37:33.280Well, first of all, your friend's intended purpose worked.
00:37:33.280 -->
00:37:41.199She punished you, she withdrew her friendship from you, kind of like a timeout, but not a temporary experience.
00:37:41.199 -->
00:37:42.239And it worked.
00:37:42.239 -->
00:37:44.480Got you a little scared to speak again.
00:37:44.480 -->
00:37:49.199And this is what gets me feeling like I want to take a megaphone and get more vocal than ever.
00:37:49.199 -->
00:37:55.440When I see bullying, coercion, manipulation, nothing fires me up like that.
00:37:55.440 -->
00:37:56.079Nothing.
00:37:56.079 -->
00:37:59.679I might fly under the radar, I might not get vocal on some hot issues.
00:37:59.679 -->
00:38:04.480And then when something like that happens, I just feel like I don't know what.
00:38:04.480 -->
00:38:06.400I just come alive.
00:38:06.400 -->
00:38:08.559I think that is frightening.
00:38:08.559 -->
00:38:12.559It's it's rhetoric when people say things like that's not kind, really.
00:38:12.559 -->
00:38:16.480Like the party talking about kindness now in that situation.
00:38:16.480 -->
00:38:18.480This is kind, how she's treating you.
00:38:18.480 -->
00:38:27.039I don't have a friend in my life who would ever presume that we should share all the same opinions.
00:38:27.039 -->
00:38:30.000Now, my friends and I do share the same morals.
00:38:30.000 -->
00:38:32.559I do feel everyone close in my life, every single.
00:38:32.559 -->
00:38:38.320And I have three of my best friends in the world are men, and three of my best friends in the world are women.
00:38:38.320 -->
00:38:52.079So I have six extremely close best friends, and then a bunch of other lovely, wonderful friends that I, you know, I have lunch with, and all those people, I my my my primary and secondary group of friends, we have the same morals.
00:38:52.079 -->
00:38:57.840I deeply know them all to be very good, thoughtful people.
00:38:57.840 -->
00:39:02.159And there's no nonsense and rhetoric and anything that I wouldn't respect.
00:39:02.159 -->
00:39:05.199There's interesting conversation, there's thought-provoking conversation.
00:39:05.199 -->
00:39:09.440We're all explorers of things going on in society around us.
00:39:09.440 -->
00:39:20.800I think it's easy to reflect on a life where you've never been called unkind before, and now suddenly you're being called unkind.
00:39:20.800 -->
00:39:25.920Like you know your heart, you know whether you are a kind person.
00:39:25.920 -->
00:39:29.760You know whether you care about humanity or don't care about humanity.
00:39:29.760 -->
00:39:32.159I know I care deeply about humanity.
00:39:32.159 -->
00:39:33.199I always have.
00:39:33.199 -->
00:39:37.599I know I always know myself, I know my heart, I know the brain I've had every year of my life.
00:39:37.599 -->
00:39:44.159I've always cared deeply about people, animals, whether I knew them or not.
00:39:44.159 -->
00:39:47.360I've always prayed for the world, for anyone suffering.
00:39:47.360 -->
00:39:48.639I always cared.
00:39:48.639 -->
00:39:55.440So how can it be that you can take someone who knows herself well?
00:39:55.440 -->
00:39:58.079And all it takes is someone to say you're unkind.
00:39:58.079 -->
00:40:01.920What do you actually believe you know my heart?
00:40:01.920 -->
00:40:09.280So, and the the things people are being called unkind for are ridiculous.
00:40:09.280 -->
00:40:12.239And it's rhetoric and it's bullying.
00:40:12.239 -->
00:40:16.880And people tried doing that to us when we launched our podcast.
00:40:16.880 -->
00:40:23.280And that's what started to make me explore the topics that were becoming controversial in society.
00:40:23.280 -->
00:40:31.440Because I like to speak when I'm I like to be really informed and I like to dive into controversies, and I like to know both sides of a controversy.
00:40:31.440 -->
00:40:35.039Uh, whatever the controversy is, I really like to explore both sides.
00:40:35.039 -->
00:40:45.840And man, when it's clear, like when it is clear what side the decency is, the ethics, without the rhetoric and the noise and the bullying, it becomes very easy to speak.
00:40:45.840 -->
00:41:05.840So early on in the podcast, there was a, I think it was a British doula who contacted us and said, I love you guys, but I have to say, you're you sound a little, and she used a word I had never heard, turfish, T-E-R-F, uh, because you always say the word woman and mother.
00:41:05.840 -->
00:41:07.199And I was like, what?
00:41:07.199 -->
00:41:14.079And I looked it up, I looked up what it meant, and I was like, oh no, you don't.
00:41:14.079 -->
00:41:15.599Oh no, you don't.
00:41:15.599 -->
00:41:20.480You don't get to, you don't get to tell me what's going on in my mind and my heart.
00:41:20.480 -->
00:41:26.639And you don't get to convince me that mother is a bad word under any circumstance.
00:41:26.639 -->
00:41:36.639There is no way I'm eradicating the word mother and woman and female from this industry of childbirth and breastfeeding.
00:41:36.639 -->
00:41:38.159There's no way that's happening.
00:41:38.159 -->
00:41:41.760And if you want someone else to do it, go find the other podcast where they're doing that.
00:41:41.760 -->
00:41:45.360But I'm not gonna be disingenuous or else I'm just gonna close the whole podcast.
00:41:45.360 -->
00:41:46.719There's no purpose now.
00:41:46.719 -->
00:41:49.440So everyone can find their own little niche.
00:41:49.440 -->
00:41:55.360We don't all have to pretend we're here to be the voice of all people, please everyone.
00:41:55.360 -->
00:41:56.639What do people want to hear?
00:41:56.639 -->
00:41:57.760That's not my concern.
00:41:57.760 -->
00:41:59.599I want to have interesting conversations with people.
00:41:59.599 -->
00:42:02.159And for people who want to listen and find it interesting, beautiful.
00:42:02.159 -->
00:42:04.400That's what the purpose of a podcast is.
00:42:04.400 -->
00:42:07.199You can't try to be something you're not.
00:42:07.199 -->
00:42:09.599And we need courage.
00:42:10.320 -->
00:42:22.719Did you ever have, for example, when businesses are just targeted and essentially made to shut down, for example, if they have just a flood of negative reviews?
00:42:22.719 -->
00:42:25.199Have you ever had to go through a campaign like that?
00:42:25.199 -->
00:42:32.639And the other example that I'm thinking of is doctors right now with different data that's coming out on vaccines.
00:42:32.639 -->
00:42:45.360And and I just recently watched an episode about the Henry Ford doctor that was doing the study, that he he said, I cannot publish this because I don't want to retire yet.
00:42:45.760 -->
00:42:53.360So Because you're saying there would have been a backlash and he would have been forced into retirement if he shared the knowledge that he had.
00:42:53.360 -->
00:42:53.840Yes.
00:42:53.840 -->
00:42:54.880This is what I mean.
00:42:54.880 -->
00:42:57.519This is why, this is what I mean a courageous person will do.
00:42:57.519 -->
00:43:06.159A courageous person will say, What is my value if I'm not, if I'm not sincere, if I'm not really here to do the right thing?
00:43:06.159 -->
00:43:30.639And if he actually had good information, good knowledge he felt the world would benefit from having, then it it's not, I it's easy for me to say, it's not fair to say you don't know anyone's circumstances, but I wouldn't want to act on that fear of what backlash there might be, because it's more compelling to me to want to share something that's beneficial.
00:43:30.639 -->
00:43:33.760I mean, if you're so compelled, that's all.
00:43:33.760 -->
00:43:38.960I'm not if that was his life's work and he had important information, then how could he not feel compelled to share it?
00:43:38.960 -->
00:43:48.559I don't know the story you're referring to, but I don't really respect anyone who's afraid to just be sincere.
00:43:48.559 -->
00:43:50.960I don't, I can't respect that.
00:43:50.960 -->
00:43:52.320It's ridiculous.
00:43:52.320 -->
00:43:57.519I just what why what are people so afraid of?
00:43:57.519 -->
00:44:06.800And who are these people who want to give bad reviews and silencing and it's a ridiculous course of action that society has taken.
00:44:06.800 -->
00:44:09.840It should be safe to talk about things.
00:44:09.840 -->
00:44:23.599So I hope this trend comes to an end because it's unethical, and no one should come to your side of an opinion because they were bullied and coerced and manipulated into it with rhetoric and threats.
00:44:23.599 -->
00:44:26.559You should have an intelligent conversation with someone.
00:44:26.559 -->
00:44:35.679You should we should be able to have conversations with people rather than, and it's just so much of this is so much easier than it's made out to be.
00:44:35.679 -->
00:44:38.239It's not complicated.
00:44:38.239 -->
00:44:44.400Obviously, you know, so many things are just so basic and we're pretending they're huge controversies.
00:44:44.400 -->
00:44:46.320I don't get it.
00:44:46.800 -->
00:45:01.760One of the comments that you had made to me when I was sharing about my loss of friendship was that you said that we keep making better and better friends throughout our lives.
00:45:01.760 -->
00:45:03.119What do you mean by that?
00:45:03.360 -->
00:45:10.719Well, I really believe we keep making better and better friends throughout our lives because we can't help but to develop wisdom as we get older.
00:45:10.719 -->
00:45:12.320I mean, some people don't.
00:45:12.320 -->
00:45:13.519It's possible.
00:45:13.519 -->
00:45:20.400You can have some older people who don't have wisdom, but most of us get much wiser every decade.
00:45:20.400 -->
00:45:22.880Life experience is an awesome thing.
00:45:22.880 -->
00:45:27.360And our hardest stories become our favorite stories.
00:45:27.360 -->
00:45:28.320They really are.
00:45:28.320 -->
00:45:31.920Like my favorite life stories were some of my very hardest times.
00:45:31.920 -->
00:45:36.079So life is a really fascinating journey, and we do get wisdom.
00:45:36.079 -->
00:45:43.760And with wisdom, we can identify people better and better, and which friends are treasures.
00:45:43.760 -->
00:45:48.480When you meet a gem of a person, like when I meet a gem of a person, I feel like I can spot them very easily.
00:45:48.480 -->
00:45:49.760And I want them in my life.
00:45:49.760 -->
00:45:55.039I want to have a friendship with someone who I can tell is a really special person.
00:45:55.039 -->
00:45:57.039I make new friends all the time.
00:45:57.039 -->
00:45:59.920I'm having lunch tomorrow with a new friend.
00:45:59.920 -->
00:46:03.920I'm always on the lookout for wonderful, special people, interesting people.
00:46:03.920 -->
00:46:06.079It's just part of my lifestyle.
00:46:06.079 -->
00:46:08.320And why do I say that happens throughout life?
00:46:08.320 -->
00:46:09.679Well, it's your choice.
00:46:09.679 -->
00:46:18.960But you know, in middle school, we're not making great choices because everyone is so afraid of being alone and they need some kind of community that they're going to grab the near, you know, the lowest common denominator.
00:46:18.960 -->
00:46:20.079They're just going to grab a friend.
00:46:20.079 -->
00:46:22.320If they're lucky, it's a really wonderful, long-lasting friend.
00:46:22.320 -->
00:46:25.519But a lot of people just kind of grab a friend because they need somebody.
00:46:25.519 -->
00:46:26.719And you do.
00:46:26.719 -->
00:46:30.000But we should start raising the bar really high.
00:46:30.000 -->
00:46:33.679And we should be willing to retire old friendships.
00:46:33.679 -->
00:46:43.920If it doesn't feel right, I mean, if you show up to meet someone and when you're leaving them later, you should feel happier after having spent time with them.
00:46:43.920 -->
00:46:48.719And if you don't, if you feel weighed down or anything negative, just forget it.
00:46:48.719 -->
00:46:53.280As my mother once said to me, in life, there's hardly enough time to spend with all the people that we love.
00:46:53.280 -->
00:46:55.920Why waste any time at all on people we don't?
00:46:56.320 -->
00:46:57.519Oh, I love that.
00:46:57.519 -->
00:47:02.239When speaking with you, something that's very evident is self-trust.
00:47:02.239 -->
00:47:12.079And the way you speak about childbirth, you speak a lot about the importance of trust and trusting yourself, your body, your motherly intuition.
00:47:12.079 -->
00:47:16.000Where do you think that came from?
00:47:17.599 -->
00:47:20.480I had parents who trusted themselves completely.
00:47:20.480 -->
00:47:25.119They had complete confidence in themselves as parents.
00:47:25.119 -->
00:47:32.480My father completely trusted himself as a father, and my mother completely trusted herself as a mother.
00:47:32.480 -->
00:47:34.159I think that was part of it.
00:47:34.159 -->
00:47:38.239The other part of it is they raised me trusting me.
00:47:38.239 -->
00:47:42.239They never told me not to lie.
00:47:42.239 -->
00:47:48.880But I have a reputation with everyone who's ever known me since I could walk, that it was impossible for me to ever tell a lie.
00:47:48.880 -->
00:47:50.480I'm a very, very honest person.
00:47:50.480 -->
00:47:53.519And it's a very high value of mine in all of my relationships.
00:47:53.519 -->
00:47:59.679I really search very deeply to be honest, even when it's hard to be honest.
00:47:59.679 -->
00:48:15.519For example, like let's say, and this has happened throughout the years, let's say a woman who took my class emailed me her birth story, and I read it and thought, oh, you know, love reading these, and just didn't get back to her because I was busy or I read it on my phone and I thought I need to get back to her.
00:48:15.519 -->
00:48:18.159Sometimes three, four, or five weeks would go by.
00:48:18.159 -->
00:48:24.159And I would, I can't even tell you how bad I would feel if she would re-forward it.
00:48:24.159 -->
00:48:27.119Hi, Cynthia, just want to make sure this didn't end up in your spam.
00:48:27.119 -->
00:48:31.440Do you know how many people would say, oh yeah, so glad you resented it was in my spam?
00:48:31.440 -->
00:48:33.119So many people would say that.
00:48:33.119 -->
00:48:34.079I don't do that.
00:48:34.079 -->
00:48:37.519So I work to tell the truth when it's uncomfortable to tell the truth.
00:48:37.519 -->
00:48:40.960And in every case, I'll say, I'm so sorry.
00:48:40.960 -->
00:48:42.239I did see it.
00:48:42.239 -->
00:48:47.199I was so happy to read it, and I completely forgot to get back to you.
00:48:47.199 -->
00:48:48.239And I'm so sorry.
00:48:48.239 -->
00:48:51.360You had to look for a response from me all this time.
00:48:51.360 -->
00:48:59.280It's not comfortable, but when you do that, people learn, first of all, they did they appreciate hearing it honestly.
00:48:59.280 -->
00:49:01.440People appreciate honesty.
00:49:01.440 -->
00:49:03.199You always know who you can trust.
00:49:03.199 -->
00:49:05.840You know who the most honest people in your life are.
00:49:05.840 -->
00:49:08.880You just know who they are and you know who they aren't.
00:49:08.880 -->
00:49:12.480You always know the really honest people.
00:49:12.480 -->
00:49:14.079I do in my life.
00:49:14.079 -->
00:49:17.039I know the people who are virtually incapable of telling a lie.
00:49:17.039 -->
00:49:20.800And I know the one, I know the ones who tell little white lies or they'll make excuses for things.
00:49:20.800 -->
00:49:21.920You always know the people.
00:49:21.920 -->
00:49:29.280So I think part of it is my parents never told me what to do.
00:49:29.280 -->
00:49:35.039They just trusted me completely, and they made me trustworthy as a result.
00:49:35.039 -->
00:49:38.000So as a mother, we can do the same.
00:49:38.000 -->
00:49:39.599It's uncomfortable.
00:49:39.599 -->
00:49:42.480But for example, this is a random example.
00:49:42.480 -->
00:49:44.719I just am thinking creatively right now.
00:49:44.719 -->
00:49:47.280But let's say, and I had moments like this with my kids.
00:49:47.280 -->
00:49:50.159I just can't think of a specific example, so I'm making one up.
00:49:50.159 -->
00:49:54.800But let's say, you know, I was in Trader Joe's with my daughter as a little three-year-old.
00:49:54.800 -->
00:49:57.679And let's say that she wanted a granola bar from the shelf.
00:49:57.679 -->
00:49:59.119It's mommy, can I have this?
00:49:59.119 -->
00:50:01.360No, no, let's let's we're not having that.
00:50:01.360 -->
00:50:05.039Uh no, but I wanted to, let's just say the child is really pushing back.
00:50:05.039 -->
00:50:11.519I think the wisest thing to do in those moments is to say, no, no, please put it back on the shelf.
00:50:11.519 -->
00:50:18.239And to look away, to look away and to take a step as though you're going to the next aisle.
00:50:18.239 -->
00:50:20.000Now, maybe not with a three-year-old that's a bit young.
00:50:20.000 -->
00:50:21.920Let's say a six-year-old, but you feel safe.
00:50:21.920 -->
00:50:24.079Obviously, we're not talking about going out of sight.
00:50:24.079 -->
00:50:27.039I'm saying if you're in the house, you look away.
00:50:27.039 -->
00:50:29.280You ask them to do something and you look away.
00:50:29.280 -->
00:50:32.079How many parents take it out of the child's hand?
00:50:32.079 -->
00:50:35.840Or how many parents say put it back and they watch over the child?
00:50:35.840 -->
00:50:39.920And might even say, you know, one, two, two and a half.
00:50:39.920 -->
00:50:42.320It's their way of showing the child, I don't really believe you.
00:50:42.320 -->
00:50:46.000I'm watching over you because I don't really trust you to do what I just asked you to do.
00:50:46.000 -->
00:50:47.599And it's tough as a parent.
00:50:47.599 -->
00:50:50.000Like that, you know, you need to make sure they brush their teeth.
00:50:50.000 -->
00:50:53.760And you want to stand there when they're five years old and be like, I want to see you brush.
00:50:53.760 -->
00:50:54.800I did you floss?
00:50:54.800 -->
00:51:03.360Well, I would practice asking them to do something and walking away because anything else would be to demonstrate that I don't trust them.
00:51:03.599 -->
00:51:15.280I'm curious to hear your opinion on how that plays into a few areas with postpartum in anxiety and depression.
00:51:15.280 -->
00:51:26.559I know you have a lot of opinions on that that you've shared before, but do you think that is a part of lacking of self-trust or where?
00:51:26.559 -->
00:51:40.400And I'm asking because the last my last birth, I had just randomly very intense postpartum anxiety in a way I've never experienced before, and I have no idea where it came from.
00:51:40.400 -->
00:51:53.599And it was the strangest thing because it felt like it came out of nowhere fast, and it left in the same way out of nowhere fast.
00:51:53.599 -->
00:51:58.320And you know, you played a big role in that, but I still wonder.
00:51:58.320 -->
00:52:07.360Um, and I'll I'll just say I started having these really intense panic feelings that something was gonna happen to me.
00:52:07.360 -->
00:52:14.000And it would, I constantly felt like I was gonna have a heart attack any second.
00:52:14.000 -->
00:52:15.199It would come fast.
00:52:15.199 -->
00:52:23.519I it was hard to pinpoint what was gonna trigger it, but it was it felt so real that I felt that I had to call 911 that second.
00:52:23.519 -->
00:52:29.360And I didn't because I there I still knew that it was likely not gonna happen.
00:52:29.360 -->
00:52:33.679I had a really um, you know, so I said supportive family.
00:52:33.679 -->
00:52:40.639So I never identified with the lack of support aspect of why this was happening.
00:52:40.639 -->
00:52:53.360And I would love to just know or hear your opinion on what why that happens sometimes and not other times, or well, it's funny.
00:52:53.440 -->
00:52:56.159You started by saying I have strong opinions, and I thought, I do.
00:52:56.159 -->
00:52:59.360Okay, but and then as you talked, I was like, Oh, I'm chomping at the bit.
00:52:59.360 -->
00:53:00.719I have so many strong opinions.
00:53:00.719 -->
00:53:02.480You're right, I you're right, I do.
00:53:02.480 -->
00:53:13.440The first opinion I have is, and this is a very strong, forceful opinion, let me tell you, it has nothing to do with whether you trust yourself.
00:53:13.440 -->
00:53:24.880Nothing postpartum, I was trained in perinatal mood and anxiety disorders through Postpartum Support International.
00:53:24.880 -->
00:53:26.960And I learned a lot.
00:53:26.960 -->
00:53:29.840But I have my own theories and opinions on things too.
00:53:29.840 -->
00:53:34.239And one of my strong theories and opinions as well is it's not a disorder.
00:53:34.239 -->
00:53:36.159I hate that we're calling it a disorder.
00:53:36.159 -->
00:53:38.239We love to call everything a disorder.
00:53:38.239 -->
00:53:40.400Everything's a disorder now.
00:53:40.400 -->
00:53:42.960How do we call that a disorder?
00:53:42.960 -->
00:53:49.440How is it a disorder for a woman to be incredibly stressed and overwhelmed and anxious after having a baby?
00:53:49.440 -->
00:53:53.840What part of her life didn't change completely after having a baby?
00:53:53.840 -->
00:54:01.599There's not one single thing about her life that isn't completely up-ended.
00:54:01.599 -->
00:54:06.719And now she has someone she cares about and loves even more than she loves herself.
00:54:06.719 -->
00:54:12.159And she always will until the day she dies and she knows it.
00:54:12.159 -->
00:54:18.639So anxiety, especially worrying about something happening to you, that's a very real fear.
00:54:18.639 -->
00:54:20.480That's a very real fear to have.
00:54:20.480 -->
00:54:24.159And it's a normal one to have because you were appropriately bonded to your child.
00:54:24.159 -->
00:54:26.639Now, the shame of it is that you suffered.
00:54:26.639 -->
00:54:35.760You suffered with that fear, as women do, but you knew if something were to happen to you, no one could replace you.
00:54:35.760 -->
00:54:39.840You are the most valuable thing in your child's life, and you know it.
00:54:39.840 -->
00:54:44.000So, of course, it's natural to be absolutely terrified something can happen to you.
00:54:44.000 -->
00:54:48.559For some women, it manifests in a fear of something happening to their husbands.
00:54:48.559 -->
00:54:51.039But for a lot of women, it's something happening to themselves.
00:54:51.039 -->
00:54:52.159I had that same fear.
00:54:52.159 -->
00:54:54.480It's a normal response.
00:54:54.480 -->
00:55:00.880So the reality is we're just the conditions around postpartum these days are so bad.
00:55:00.880 -->
00:55:05.920And we also, we also want everyone to know this is not a matter of hormones.
00:55:05.920 -->
00:55:08.079And I wish people would stop thinking it is.
00:55:08.079 -->
00:55:10.079I hate when women are called hormonal.
00:55:10.079 -->
00:55:11.920I hate when women call themselves hormonal.
00:55:11.920 -->
00:55:16.719I hate when women cry in pregnancy and say they're only crying because they're pregnant.
00:55:16.719 -->
00:55:19.760I never even told my children they were in the terrible twos.
00:55:19.760 -->
00:55:22.239I don't ascribe to any of that.
00:55:22.239 -->
00:55:23.920Feelings are real.
00:55:23.920 -->
00:55:27.039If you're pregnant and crying, you are feeling something.
00:55:27.039 -->
00:55:28.719Don't blame it on the emotions.
00:55:28.719 -->
00:55:33.679If a woman is angry or moody or, you know, some women suffer with, I guess, PMS.
00:55:33.679 -->
00:55:36.239I have a very close friend who talks about it all the time.
00:55:36.239 -->
00:55:38.800Why are her feelings not legitimate?
00:55:38.800 -->
00:55:43.360Why are postpartum struggles called disorders?
00:55:43.360 -->
00:56:01.519It's not normal for women to come home with a baby and have absolutely no support, or at best, a partner or a husband who also knows nothing about having a baby in a society that gives no support to women, in a society where there's no more community and people just popping in, bringing food, hanging out, visiting, holding the baby, teaching you how to breastfeed.
00:56:01.519 -->
00:56:04.559This is how it has gone through human history.
00:56:04.559 -->
00:56:09.280And now to make matters so much worse, your generation of mothers has an iPhone in their hand.
00:56:09.280 -->
00:56:15.360So who's not going to succumb to the temptation of entertainment or the dopamine spike?
00:56:15.360 -->
00:56:19.199I didn't have iPhones, thank God.
00:56:19.199 -->
00:56:25.679And sat for hours and hours and hours and hours looking at my baby.
00:56:25.679 -->
00:56:29.840It was isolating and I was very eager to make mom friends.
00:56:29.840 -->
00:56:32.880And I read lots of books and magazines in those days.
00:56:32.880 -->
00:56:34.320And I'm so happy now.
00:56:34.320 -->
00:56:39.039That was my experience because I would have been a sucker for that entertainment.
00:56:39.039 -->
00:56:40.719I didn't have any of that.
00:56:40.719 -->
00:56:44.000And I feel for women because that would have hurt me so much more.
00:56:44.000 -->
00:56:46.000I would have felt so much lonelier.
00:56:46.000 -->
00:56:49.840I don't know, it's a very tough time.
00:56:49.840 -->
00:56:53.440So women just need a lot more support.
00:56:53.440 -->
00:56:58.480And if we would only stop calling it a disorder, we might actually start taking her seriously.
00:56:58.480 -->
00:57:04.480We might say, So what's going on in your relationship, in your home, in your lifestyle?
00:57:04.480 -->
00:57:23.840Who wouldn't go halfway out of their mind if they woke up in a completely different body with someone 100% dependent on them, with needs constantly, with absolute sleep deprivation, with the inability to even leave the house and get groceries with any ease.
00:57:23.840 -->
00:57:27.039And you could go on and on listing things.
00:57:27.039 -->
00:57:29.840The one wondering about career money.
00:57:34.800 -->
00:57:45.199But the first postpartum group of yours that I joined, you were sharing, and different women were sharing about their fears.
00:57:45.199 -->
00:57:53.679And it made me feel less crazy because I kept thinking there's no way other people have this intense of a fear.
00:57:53.679 -->
00:57:56.559But no one would know that about me either without me sharing it.
00:57:56.960 -->
00:57:57.679Exactly.
00:57:58.400 -->
00:58:12.400With I think a lot of the healthcare, in my opinion, has been corrupted in terms you see it in birth when certain decisions are made based on hospital policy that's made for profit.
00:58:12.400 -->
00:58:17.360And in other areas like cancer, I feel the same way.
00:58:17.360 -->
00:58:22.079And I I'm talking from my mom's experience with it.
00:58:22.079 -->
00:58:37.679It seems that there's not a lot of trust on the patient and their ability to know what's right for them.
00:58:37.679 -->
00:59:04.079They're sometimes spoken to in a way where they're not the doctor, and if they disagree with the with the traditional way of treatment, it's because you don't understand how beneficial this is, but not as much as given into the negatives of it or why someone might not want to pursue that.
00:59:04.079 -->
00:59:17.280I would love to know what your opinion is specifically related to the cancer treatment.
00:59:17.280 -->
00:59:24.000I think you've done such a good job at diving into the different aspects of birth.
00:59:24.000 -->
00:59:29.199And I value your opinion on that topic as well.
00:59:31.679 -->
00:59:32.559Big topic.
00:59:33.039 -->
00:59:34.400Yeah, yeah.
00:59:34.400 -->
00:59:49.280The perspective on healing and cancer and the treatment of cancer for someone that might not want to pursue the traditional cancer care treatment of chemotherapy radiation route.
00:59:49.679 -->
00:59:54.079Well, there's so much to learn out there.
00:59:54.079 -->
00:59:58.880And there's a guy with a great platform and podcast, um, Chris Wark.
00:59:58.880 -->
00:59:59.920It's called Chris Beatcamp.
00:59:59.920 -->
01:00:00.559Cancer.
01:00:00.559 -->
01:00:02.079He cured himself.
01:00:02.079 -->
01:00:06.400I believe it was stage three colon cancer, completely with diet, I believe.
01:00:06.400 -->
01:00:10.480And he features people all the time, even with stage four who healed themselves.
01:00:10.480 -->
01:00:15.760And there are places around the country where people go and change their lifestyle.
01:00:15.760 -->
01:00:25.199And I mean, my main feelings are it's not, it doesn't matter what my personal thoughts are on this.
01:00:25.199 -->
01:00:27.199And I have a lot of knowledge on the topic.
01:00:27.199 -->
01:00:27.840I always have.
01:00:27.840 -->
01:00:32.239I've always been very interested in that topic, and I know a lot about it.
01:00:32.239 -->
01:00:37.679But the most important thing is for people to truly have informed consent.
01:00:37.679 -->
01:00:45.199And every culture handles things like birth and cancer differently.
01:00:45.199 -->
01:00:47.039It's just cultural.
01:00:47.039 -->
01:00:55.760And our culture takes um, you know, a highly medical approach, and they kind of laugh at anything else.
01:00:55.760 -->
01:01:02.079They kind of laugh at people who want to go more natural ways.
01:01:02.079 -->
01:01:09.440But the idea of going the a natural way is to let your body's immune system start working and functioning properly.
01:01:09.440 -->
01:01:13.119And it is remarkable what the immune system can do when given the tools.
01:01:13.119 -->
01:01:16.960But most of our bodies are not in their optimal state.
01:01:16.960 -->
01:01:18.480Most people aren't getting enough sleep.
01:01:18.480 -->
01:01:28.719Most people have too much stress, their lifestyle is toxic, their food is toxic, they're eating too much acidic food, which doesn't even have oxygen in it, and we need oxygen in our bodies.
01:01:28.719 -->
01:01:30.639I mean, that's how cancer is born.
01:01:30.639 -->
01:01:32.960The book Ph Miracle gets into that.
01:01:32.960 -->
01:01:34.800It's really fascinating, actually.
01:01:34.800 -->
01:01:41.760I just feel as the patient, you need to know your right to informed consent.
01:01:41.760 -->
01:01:45.280You have the right to decline any procedure or treatment.
01:01:45.280 -->
01:01:51.199Now, what that person should do instead is their responsibility to figure out.
01:01:51.199 -->
01:01:59.599But they do have the right to be supported with informed consent, with full knowledge.
01:01:59.599 -->
01:02:11.039And it's it's always a slippery slope if our culture is saying there is no cure, we're just going to give you a bunch of stuff to, I don't know, their argument is like to drag it on as long as possible.
01:02:11.039 -->
01:02:13.440Well, what kind of lifestyle is that now?
01:02:13.440 -->
01:02:16.960And they don't consider the fact that there is healing.
01:02:16.960 -->
01:02:36.719Now, so when you look at the research and there's tons of it of people healing completely from cancer, the medical community calls it spontaneous remission because they don't acknowledge that this person did a remarkable job with their immune system, whether they were doing saunas or wheatgrass or hyperbaric oxygen chambers.
01:02:36.719 -->
01:02:40.239I mean, some people do really extraordinary things to heal their bodies.
01:02:40.239 -->
01:02:41.920They go to great lengths.
01:02:41.920 -->
01:02:46.880But why time and time again does the medical community just chalk it off to spontaneous remission?
01:02:46.880 -->
01:02:48.480You might as well call it miracle.
01:02:48.480 -->
01:02:50.800Well, this person healed by miracle.
01:02:50.800 -->
01:02:52.000Let's move on.
01:02:52.000 -->
01:02:54.000Just call it a miracle then.
01:02:54.000 -->
01:03:03.280Because there rather than getting curious, I mean, if I were those doctors, I would want to know everything a patient of mine did to heal from cancer.
01:03:03.280 -->
01:03:05.280Like, how did you do this?
01:03:05.280 -->
01:03:06.079This is remarkable.
01:03:06.079 -->
01:03:07.840We're going around saying there's no cure.
01:03:07.840 -->
01:03:09.599So, how did you cure this?
01:03:09.599 -->
01:03:12.639Because people do it all the time by the thousands.
01:03:12.639 -->
01:03:19.280I just was in a women's group this morning, and a woman's cousin had stage four cancer in the summer.
01:03:19.280 -->
01:03:21.840And she was asking everyone, please say a prayer for him.
01:03:21.840 -->
01:03:24.079It's all over his whole body now and his brain.
01:03:24.079 -->
01:03:25.840She just shared today, he's back home.
01:03:25.840 -->
01:03:26.559He's cured.
01:03:26.559 -->
01:03:28.079He was in hospice.
01:03:28.639 -->
01:03:29.119Wow.
01:03:29.360 -->
01:03:31.039It's a remarkable story.
01:03:31.039 -->
01:03:35.119And you know, the doctors are just gonna say, Well, spontaneous remission, I guess.
01:03:35.119 -->
01:03:36.239Okay, really?
01:03:36.239 -->
01:03:38.800I suddenly you guys believe in miracles.
01:03:38.800 -->
01:03:42.159Maybe there's a reason, maybe there's something this person did.
01:03:42.639 -->
01:03:48.239Yeah, I would love to do some rapid fire to wrap up our episode.
01:03:48.480 -->
01:03:48.719Okay.
01:03:48.960 -->
01:03:51.360How do you want to be remembered someday, Cynthia?
01:03:51.760 -->
01:03:53.599My thoughts are my children, right?
01:03:53.599 -->
01:03:54.880I mean, the people I love.
01:03:54.880 -->
01:03:57.840My children are what comes to mind.
01:03:57.840 -->
01:04:03.599And the lessons I've taught them are important to me.
01:04:03.599 -->
01:04:08.480But how I want them to remember me, I hope the people who are in my life know that they're loved by me.
01:04:08.480 -->
01:04:18.320I hope anyone who's put any trust in me, including my clients, including my podcast listeners who I'll never meet.
01:04:18.320 -->
01:04:20.639The vast majority of them I'll never meet.
01:04:20.639 -->
01:04:24.400I hope anyone who puts their trust in me is better off for it.
01:04:24.400 -->
01:04:30.400So, to whatever scale I've been able, I just hope that I have touched the world positively.
01:04:30.400 -->
01:04:31.840That's what matters to me.
01:04:31.840 -->
01:04:34.719Even the dogs I've fostered and rescued in my life.
01:04:34.719 -->
01:04:37.519There have been 11 in the past 10 years.
01:04:37.519 -->
01:04:40.800I just want to, we all change the world.
01:04:40.800 -->
01:04:42.320We all come and make an impact.
01:04:42.320 -->
01:04:46.559I really want so much for mine to be positive.
01:04:46.559 -->
01:04:49.039How I'm remembered specifically, I don't know.
01:04:49.039 -->
01:04:52.000I hope my kids remember that I raised them with a sense of humor.
01:04:52.000 -->
01:04:53.199I'm really proud of that.
01:04:53.199 -->
01:04:58.880I think a sense of humor is a really valuable quality in a mother and in any relationship.
01:05:00.480 -->
01:05:11.440Any final piece of advice that you have for someone that doesn't feel as courageous but wants to become more courageous, how do you start?
01:05:11.760 -->
01:05:20.719I guess if you're speaking out about something, speak out for the sake of not manipulating and changing others.
01:05:20.719 -->
01:05:31.920Speak out for the sake of justice, like truly justice, not the rhetorical sense, not where everyone's picking aside and using rhetoric.
01:05:31.920 -->
01:05:33.760What are you afraid of?
01:05:33.760 -->
01:05:46.000Do you know how true you'll feel when you already know your heart is for a better world and you want to share truths about what's happening?
01:05:46.000 -->
01:05:50.639I guess what I would say is, why are you speaking out?
01:05:50.639 -->
01:05:52.079What's the purpose?
01:05:52.079 -->
01:05:55.440We don't need everyone speaking out for the sake of speaking out.
01:05:55.440 -->
01:06:03.760We certainly don't want to speak out to manipulate others, to isolate others, to shame, guilt others with rhetoric.
01:06:03.760 -->
01:06:16.960If you really see injustice or lies happening, if lies are being published and you are being manipulated and swayed to believe something that isn't actually correct, those are things I like to call out.
01:06:16.960 -->
01:06:22.880And I've started doing that when I see things that are published in articles that are outright lies.
01:06:22.880 -->
01:06:25.039And I can say, oh, look at this.
01:06:25.039 -->
01:06:28.559This is actually the truth, but this is how this was spun or shared.
01:06:28.559 -->
01:06:29.280Look at that.
01:06:29.280 -->
01:06:33.599Look at how we've all been manipulated all this time.
01:06:33.599 -->
01:06:35.519Why is there an agenda?
01:06:35.519 -->
01:06:37.599Why is there always an agenda?
01:06:37.599 -->
01:06:42.719Why does every conversation, every societal debate become political?
01:06:42.719 -->
01:06:44.320That I'll never understand.
01:06:44.320 -->
01:06:47.280What are your thoughts on political affiliations?
01:06:47.280 -->
01:06:48.960Everything becomes political.
01:06:48.960 -->
01:06:56.159Like the Democrats choose one side, they're the environment, certain human rights issues, COVID.
01:06:56.159 -->
01:06:59.519Why did why was there an instant divide?
01:07:00.239 -->
01:07:00.719Yeah.
01:07:00.960 -->
01:07:16.000So people started to feel politically homeless because they were just, well, am I allowed to question this vaccine without people thinking they know my politics or feeling I need to leave a political party in order to question this thing?
01:07:16.000 -->
01:07:18.960I mean, it's just why is everything political?
01:07:18.960 -->
01:07:20.480Think for yourself.
01:07:20.480 -->
01:07:22.639That is one thing I have taught my children to do.
01:07:22.639 -->
01:07:24.880And I'm not just using that in a cliche way.
01:07:24.880 -->
01:07:28.960I taught my children from a young age, don't idolize anyone.
01:07:28.960 -->
01:07:34.320Don't idolize a famous person because they're beautiful or cute or charming or talented.
01:07:34.320 -->
01:07:36.079Don't idolize me.
01:07:36.079 -->
01:07:38.960Don't idolize anyone.
01:07:38.960 -->
01:07:44.079You can respect people, follow people, listen to people, but idolize no one.
01:07:44.079 -->
01:07:51.920And another piece of advice I give that I feel really good about, a lot of people won't agree with this, but it is absolutely right for me.
01:07:51.920 -->
01:08:02.400I teach my children to be politically independent, be an independent voter because the minute you choose a side, that side is going to tell you what you need to believe.
01:08:02.400 -->
01:08:04.719There's going to be a momentum.
01:08:04.719 -->
01:08:06.000This is what we stand for.
01:08:06.000 -->
01:08:07.760Well, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
01:08:07.760 -->
01:08:13.119I didn't sign up for any of a group of people telling me what my values are and what to believe.
01:08:13.119 -->
01:08:14.960I did not sign up for that.
01:08:14.960 -->
01:08:16.640So I'm an independent voter.
01:08:16.640 -->
01:08:21.039And every single time I'm reassessing, reassessing, reassessing.
01:08:21.039 -->
01:08:23.920And I voted on both sides of political parties in my adult life.
01:08:23.920 -->
01:08:29.359And I'm very proud of that because there were times I thought the other side was off their deep end.
01:08:29.359 -->
01:08:32.479And I thought, well, I don't affiliate with a party.
01:08:32.479 -->
01:08:35.760I live my life according to my self-respect and my values.
01:08:35.760 -->
01:08:37.520And I think everyone should do the same.
01:08:37.520 -->
01:08:39.600And I think it's really weird.
01:08:39.600 -->
01:08:45.840And I don't respect it how a whole party, they all agree on 15 different issues just like that.
01:08:45.840 -->
01:08:48.560That's because the party told them what to stand for.
01:08:48.560 -->
01:08:51.039Well, now you're not thinking for yourself.
01:08:51.039 -->
01:08:52.079So what's that?
01:08:52.079 -->
01:08:53.119What's going on there?
01:08:53.119 -->
01:08:55.039That's that's insulting.
01:08:55.680 -->
01:08:56.960I completely agree.
01:08:56.960 -->
01:08:58.800I I feel the same way.
01:08:58.800 -->
01:09:18.960And especially being an immigration lawyer, there's very throughout, I mean, ever since I entered law and chose immigration, it's very assumed that all my views are going to align with a certain political party because of the work that I do.
01:09:18.960 -->
01:09:21.760And I really consider myself independent politically.
01:09:22.079 -->
01:09:24.239Yeah, I think that's I think that's the way to be.
01:09:24.239 -->
01:09:28.239Just trust your trust yourself to form your own opinions.
01:09:28.239 -->
01:09:31.760No one needs to tell you what to believe or how to vote.
01:09:31.760 -->
01:09:34.880Keep you try using your own intelligence and common sense.
01:09:34.880 -->
01:09:37.920And when you don't know what you think about something, just explore it more.
01:09:37.920 -->
01:09:42.640That's why I love podcasts because I like independent or Substack.
01:09:42.640 -->
01:09:45.199I like independent thinkers.
01:09:45.199 -->
01:09:50.880I don't want to be part of someone's agenda.
01:09:50.880 -->
01:09:52.720I don't want to be manipulated.
01:09:52.720 -->
01:09:53.199Yeah.
01:09:53.199 -->
01:09:55.119I think we all have to be really careful of that.
01:09:55.119 -->
01:09:58.159And nor do I want to manipulate anyone, including my own children.
01:09:58.159 -->
01:10:00.079I don't want to tell them what to believe.
01:10:00.079 -->
01:10:14.079I just, you just have to learn to recognize rhetoric, learn to recognize manipulation and pressure, and just stay clear on what guides you by your own self-respect.
01:10:14.079 -->
01:10:17.680I think that I honestly think that's the key to everything.
01:10:17.680 -->
01:10:23.359When you really have self-respect, everything in life gets easy.
01:10:23.359 -->
01:10:28.800And I think that's all parents need to really concern themselves with.
01:10:28.800 -->
01:10:38.720Trust yourself as a parent and raise children with the goal of them having self-respect and self-trust.
01:10:38.720 -->
01:10:49.199And it involves letting go and it involves letting them, freeing them and liberating them to growing up and possibly having a different opinion from you one day.
01:10:49.199 -->
01:10:50.000Well, look at that.
01:10:50.000 -->
01:10:52.000Well, the parents are afraid of that.
01:10:52.000 -->
01:10:59.920But what you're doing for them by giving them self-respect, now they're going to choose better relationships in their lives, the right career in their lives.
01:10:59.920 -->
01:11:06.560They're going to feel better about every part of their lives because they're guided by their self-respect, which means doing the right thing and being true.
01:11:06.560 -->
01:11:10.319What more can you wish for your children than that feeling that they can live with?
01:11:11.680 -->
01:11:14.960For today's episode, Takeaways, I have many.
01:11:14.960 -->
01:11:18.399True courage isn't about being fearless.
01:11:18.399 -->
01:11:24.560Courage happens when you act according to your values, even when you're scared or uncomfortable.
01:11:24.560 -->
01:11:36.239Cynthia challenges the pressure to get it all right as a parent, reminding us that it's hard to mess up our kids when love, ethics, and example lead the way.
01:11:36.239 -->
01:11:41.840Cynthia shared how she used respect for herself and her children as a guide.
01:11:41.840 -->
01:11:48.720The most powerful parenting tool isn't what you say, but how you act and who you are.
01:11:48.720 -->
01:11:54.000Kids learn courage, honesty, respect, and integrity by watching you live it.
01:11:54.000 -->
01:12:01.600If you want to encourage a certain characteristic in your child, the best way to foster it is by embodying it.
01:12:01.600 -->
01:12:10.560By trusting yourself as a parent and a person, you give your children permission to do the same, fostering confidence, resilience, and self-respect.
01:12:10.560 -->
01:12:15.760You can encourage self-trust in your children by modeling how you trust them.
01:12:15.760 -->
01:12:24.800Cynthia invites us to question the trendy parenting advice and rhetoric that often disconnects us from our own intuition and values.
01:12:24.800 -->
01:12:32.000We continually learn as parents, and we become better as we observe things about ourselves and our children.
01:12:32.000 -->
01:12:35.840We can make significant changes in our lives this way.
01:12:35.840 -->
01:12:43.039When it comes to your career, allow yourself to wonder and pursue the thing that is scary and a little bit exciting.
01:12:43.039 -->
01:12:47.279Cynthia has followed this throughout her career and it has served her well.
01:12:47.279 -->
01:12:52.960Cynthia knew that when she had children, raising them would be the most important thing to her.
01:12:52.960 -->
01:13:01.760She did not want to delegate this role, and she was able to fulfill many of her career's aspirations both before and after children.
01:13:01.760 -->
01:13:07.279We should be liberated to talk about our lives and our choices without apologizing.
01:13:07.279 -->
01:13:13.439Talking about what matters to us does not equate judging others who make different choices.
01:13:13.439 -->
01:13:21.920A courageous person will say, What is my value if I'm not sincere, if I'm not here to do the right thing?
01:13:21.920 -->
01:13:26.960Good friends should leave you happier after having spent time with them.
01:13:26.960 -->
01:13:33.199And if they don't and you feel weighed down, we should be willing to retire old friendships.
01:13:33.199 -->
01:13:39.439We keep making better and better friends all throughout our lives because we get wiser.
01:13:39.439 -->
01:13:44.079That's it for today's episode.
01:13:44.079 -->
01:13:46.079Thank you for spending this time with me.
01:13:46.079 -->
01:13:54.560I know how valuable your time is, and I hope you're walking away feeling encouraged to dream a little bigger about what's possible for your work and family life.
01:13:54.560 -->
01:14:01.439If this episode spoke to you, it would mean so much if you shared it with another mom who needs this kind of encouragement.
01:14:01.439 -->
01:14:04.479Make sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.
01:14:04.479 -->
01:14:09.600And if you want to keep the conversation going, connect with me on LinkedIn to search Emilia Koto.
01:14:09.600 -->
01:14:13.920That's E M I L I A C O T O.
01:14:13.920 -->
01:14:18.640Until next time, remember, motherhood isn't the end of your dreams.
01:14:18.640 -->
01:14:20.479It's just the beginning.
