You Didn't Know Jack... Until Now. Welcome to Richmond, Jack Elliott on Life Unscripted with Kevin Shook.

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Life and scripted with Kevin Show.
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M-dash M-s or M-Yep.
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Well, here's the thing.
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Um I was an English major and the M-dash has a purpose.
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And it's been forever ruined for the people who know how to use it properly.
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And so the second the people see it, they're like, that's AI.
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And I'm like, mm-hmm that's English language, but you can't really use it anymore because it is a tell.
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And I hate that about AI because it ruined it ruined it for people who know how to write properly.
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But here we are.
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Um The Detta Kumbo Industrial, he's a friend of mine that's an author.
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He'll come up here every once in a while.
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He said that exact same thing.
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He was like, Yeah, we use M dashes.
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They're they're they're there for a reason.
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That there's a specific use case for it.
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And the thing of it is, is I actually uh I saved, I think I saved the chats.
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So I was using it like I was just learning how to do it.
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So I was using it for a lot of different things.
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Not that stuff that I would use in real practice, but I wanted to see like, let's try this thing off of size.
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What can we do?
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And writing is I think me personally is the worst.
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To me, it's the only use case that you don't use it.
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Because I'm like, well, how does an LLM work?
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It's literally everything that's been said before that's put into a recipe, and then you chop that up and then it gives it back to you.
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So it's all the things that have already been done.
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And historically, uh we have all the things to say about that because what is in the model?
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What's it trained on?
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Whose voices?
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I mean, it's pretty specific about what you can get out of it and what you can't get out of it.
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Um and there's nothing creative about it, it's basically like it's math.
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It's like what are the things that are most said probability-wise.
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That's what's gonna give it back to you.
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And M-dash, M-dash, M-dash.
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And negative I I have all these prompts.
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It doesn't, it it'll always default back to the to the regular thing.
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But I have like every time I do a prompt, it's like no negative framing, because it's like, well, it's not this, it's that.
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And I'm like, oh God.
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Because I think and I asked it one time, and I think I saved the chat.
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I was like fighting with it.
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I was like, why do you why why are you this way?
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Why do you do this?
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And basically You ever cuss at it?
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No.
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I cuss at mine every once in a while.
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Yeah, but it's awesome because it'll give that back it.
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Whatever attitude you put into it, it'll give you back the attitude.
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Well, the I mean that the like the psychopancy is real.
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They're like, you're the smartest, that's the best idea that's ever been had.
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You are the innovative, you are the smartest person that's ever lived.
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And basically people get so um I mean, now obviously the jig is up, but when it first started, people were like, Wow.
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I can work with this.
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Pretty smart.
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I've never heard that day in their life until they're like, oh this guy.
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So I think it took off for a reason, I think, because of that.
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But the no-negative framing, like, it's not this, it's that.
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And then the ways that it just can't take sentences and put them together properly.
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It's more of like basically putting two pieces together, which is like the M-dash.
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And it's like, these are the these are the th if especially when you're doing, I mean, for me, it mostly was stuff to do with business.
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So it was um, you know, things that have already been said before.
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And it's like very specifically a vibe and a certain way of of talking, like power means this.
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And it's like, that's how it would talk.
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And it's like, well, it doesn't really, though.
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But what the model is trained on is is years and years of the internet of like people telling us to do things a certain way, which are historically almost 87% wrong.
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I would say more I'm being conservative.
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Is that off Reddit?
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Yeah, I know.
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I love Reddit.
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Actually, that is the it gets a lot of its info from Reddit.
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Well, honestly, it's truthfully, it's the only thing to me, and I know there's terrible parts of everything, but for me, Reddit is the only true source that's left.
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That's just that in Facebook marketplace.
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Yeah, I do Honestly, it's the only two things that are unsullied by modern life.
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Because it's like I picked, because I just moved here and I'm buying furniture, all sorts of things.
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And when I tell you it is my dream come true, they're like, We're not gonna be home, but just leave the money under the mat and take the chair, it'll be on the porch.
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And I'm like, I love this.
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I love marketplace because you can you can buy motorcycle, but you can also find out who is newly single because they put up like their wedding rings for sale.
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It's better than a dating app.
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Well, and I'll tell you, because it's honest, and if the honest people stay there and the honest people are looking, it should because it's like the same thing with Reddit.
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Like Reddit should be more because all the people that know how to behave are already there, right?
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That's my theory.
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I don't belong.
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Honestly, it's I don't belong.
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Yeah, well, right.
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They might sniff you out right away and kick you off.
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Well, the the prank I showed Bud the other day on Facebook Marketplace is you know how it automatically auto-populates that generic message, is this still available?
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Right.
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And you could just hit send.
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Right.
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So if you go to one that you know, like engagement ring.
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Yeah, and you just switched it.
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You switch it to is she?
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Still available.
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And then they'll be like, yes, are you interested?
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And they didn't even read the message.
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They didn't read that message.
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Right.
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And I'm like, sure, coffee?
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And then that's when it usually gets weird.
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Well, the new guy wouldn't like me doing that.
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Right.
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Either it gets weird or you could that's I love the internet.
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Yeah, I mean, I don't know.
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Yeah.
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I love the internet.
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I don't know.
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What was uh internet speeds like in New York City?
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Well, I mean just fast enough to be dangerous, I suppose.
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I mean, I was I mean, I've been through the like I'm the Gen X of it also, I've been through all of the iterations where the first computer of the office was at like a workstation and everyone had to wait for it in line to be like, are you gonna use the computer?
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And then the internet came, which was like, again, I yearn for some of the things that it did when it first came about, which is you only use it for certain things, which I think is like still the cardinal rule of certain um digital practices.
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Like not every not everything can be uh done with the same tool, let's put it that way.
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Um so yeah, I mean, there's a lot of differences between here and New York, and like weirdly, people um would say how different it is, and it is, but like you know, listen, I think the good parts of anything will always find each other and like rise to the top, right?
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So it's like bad actors, nefarious practices, all the things.
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That's gonna be everywhere.
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I think the cultural norms that go along with it are so different, but people are people and people have been people in the same way since forever.
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So I'm excited for um the the newness of what I was doing in New York is definitely not what I was interested in in doing somewhere else because it just shows up so differently.
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But that change happened before I decided to move here, which is good.
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So it's not like I decided to move here and then I'm like, I'm gonna change everything.
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So that was like a um an evolution that happened I would say about six months to a year before I moved here.
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So for like people watching or listening, um all three people that watch this, um my mom.
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Listen up, folks.
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Yeah.
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So gather around.
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So just where did you grow up?
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So yeah.
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So uh the story of me and Richmond is because people since I've been here have all sort of had the same glazed over look.
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They're like, where'd you move from?
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I'm like New York City, and they're like just like there's a silent pause, and I'm like concrete jungle.
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That's the look.
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So in the 1960s, my grandparents moved here because my grandfather worked for Ford from Connorsville.
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They built a house.
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My aunt and my mom are teenage-ish age.
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And my aunt stayed, because my grandparents ended up moving away after that.
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My aunt stayed here.
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She went to high school here, raised her family here.
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My mom moved to New York City.
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I met my dad, born and raised in Brooklyn, so East Coast all the way for me.
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Except for when my parents my grandparents moved, they had a farm in Michigan, in Dryden, Michigan, for all of you Michigan folks out there, if you know where that is.
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It's by Flint.
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Um the only reason most people know that is because of the water.
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However, it's highly recognizable as far as location.
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So I spent every summer there on a farm from when I was born until I was about 13.
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So I have the Midwest in my blood for sure.
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Um and then my mom came back after living in the East forever in like 2011-12.
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And then when she passed away in 2024, I had half of a house anyway.
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And I was about and actually that's how Segway into how you and I know each other, because uh shout out to Jason and Chandra, Falcon.
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Um, I've also known my family for a long time, and I was about to sell the house.
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Called up my wife, and I was like, I have an idea.
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Let's move to Indiana.
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And she said, Where's that?
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She was like, I was like, hello, hello?
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Um divorce papers.
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Yeah, totally.
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I'm like, oh, look at this.
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Um well that we had been trying to get out of New York for like five years, and we looked up in Boston because that's where my wife is from, and we looked in a bunch of suburban towns, and although great, it didn't seem right for us.
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We looked, we tried, it didn't seem like the right move, and I think we would have if it it made sense immediately.
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And we're just like, I don't know, this is right, you know, we don't have kids.
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So that's a lot of where people move and schools and all sorts of things.
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This is where we plug in Freddie though.
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This is Freddie's shout-out.
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I have the best Chihuahua.
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Basically your kid.
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He is.
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Um, but don't have to worry about the schools for him.
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So um Yeah.
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We just took a shot.
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I mean, it was just like I think we were so ready to get out of New York or something.
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And and we could have moved to a suburb of New York, which was like Jersey, Long Island, but like same thing as when we were up in Boston looking.
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Like my wife's from there.
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It's like, who wants to move to a suburb of Boston if you're from there and that's not the next natural step?
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She's like, oh, you know, I don't know.
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So I'm like, I don't want to move to Long Island.
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No offense to Long Island.
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I love a lot of great people from Long Island.
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But I'm like, I don't want to live there.
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So to me, it's like we went so the opposite that like completely changed up.
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You know, going from New York City to the Midwest.
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I mean, that's like I was doing it.
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So yeah, I called up my brother and I was like, well, I'm not gonna sell the house, but you know, so we, you know, we bought him out and you know, took ownership of the house, and we've been here since the beginning of June.
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And I mean I will say I don't think that I mean, I knew because I'd been coming here visiting my family or whatever, but you know, Indiana's not all on the radar of a lot of people.
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So when you say Indiana, people just don't even know what to expect or what the landscape is like.
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I said to my wife, I'm like, you will be surprised, like it's beautiful.
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Like can you you drive?
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I mean, we're in Richmond, right?
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So you drive five, six minutes down the road, and there's just like open fields for days.
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Yeah, you probably did you ever turn your high beams on when you lived in the city?
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Only by accident.
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Like I thought about that.
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When I lived in downtown Indy for four years, yeah.
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Um I was like, you know, I haven't turned my high beams on in a long time.
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Yeah.
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And that's true.
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I mean, it's such a weird thing to say, but it's absolutely true because you look around, I mean, there's not a there's not a streetlight in sight around there at night.
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Um so yeah, I mean it's it's it's so new.
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I mean, we're just I mean, I I haven't even had my head above water even to think about work at this point.
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We're just sort of like you know, getting the house ready and all sorts of stuff.
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But I don't know.
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I mean, it's like it's a whole new it's a whole new thing.
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And so how you and I met is once I decided to call Shandra.
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I'm like, well, I'm not gonna sell the house.
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And actually they were so sweet, they were so happy.
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I mean, they were like, oh my god, it's so great, you're moving here.
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And so I I asked them to get on a call with me about a two months later.
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I was like, you know, I don't know anybody, I don't know anything.
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I mean, my family's here, but besides that, I don't know, and they gave me like a list of people, and they're like, if you ever want to do if you ever want to do a podcast, cover truck.
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And so I called you, and you know, obviously we we hit it off or whatever, and we have a lot of sort of overlapping um business interests and you know potentials to work together or whatever.
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So um yeah, that's how this endeavor came to be.
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All five of you who are listening in Kevin's mom.
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Um so yeah, it's super it's it's exciting.
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I mean, I don't know what to expect in in a lot of ways, and I think that's the part I like about it.
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So I don't know what's gonna happen.
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It's man, it's crazy crazy because you know, I'm like the big Gary V fan.
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So I see all the shows from his office and when he's in his office and look overlooking New York City, and then you know, on on TikTok there's a viral sound um that uh it's like good morning, New York City, and it's it sounds like old timey radio.
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Yep.
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And uh people overlay videos in New York City to set sky and everything.
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But yeah.
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Like i anything.
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Um you said it kind of to you, you you've told me it kind of has an expiration date, it feels like or so.
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Well, I think you know, if if that's I don't know.
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I mean, I've lived there right outside of the city, in the city for most of my adult life.
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And when you're younger, you like anywhere, it shows up differently for you.
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You're going out, you're going to restaurants, you're going to bars, and some people do do.
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It's not age specific, but some for some people it is.
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And, you know, I mean, I've been there and I feel like I've done all the things.
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I mean, we lived uptown, which was the most amazing, most boring part of Manhattan, which is the Upper East Side.
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I loved it.
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We were within walking distance of Central Park.
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Um, we walked to the Met every Friday night.
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Were you there uh on 9-11?
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I was actually there was a small stint of my time in the east that I lived in Jersey City, and I had a an apartment that had like an something like the 14th or 15th floor on the water, and it was right in front of me.
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I actually videotaped it.
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I don't have those videotapes anymore, but like with an actual camcorder, I was out my window filming it.
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I think probably subconsciously.
00:14:05.360 --> 00:14:08.080
I lost them on purpose because whoever wants to see that again.
00:14:08.159 --> 00:14:09.600
But I I wish I still had them.
00:14:09.679 --> 00:14:10.639
It was terrifying.
00:14:10.879 --> 00:14:11.600
It was terrifying.
00:14:11.679 --> 00:14:18.399
I remember my grandmother called me when the first she was a bit of a clairvoyant, she knew.
00:14:18.559 --> 00:14:22.799
She's the when the first plane hit, she called me immediately and she's like, Something's very, very bad.
00:14:22.879 --> 00:14:23.360
Are you okay?
00:14:23.519 --> 00:14:24.799
I said, I'm actually still home.
00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:26.960
And she's like, just stay home if you can.
00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:31.840
And I was with um my you know, my girlfriend at the time was already at work.
00:14:32.799 --> 00:14:37.840
And then I ended up, I mean, long story short, cut two and this like little Honda C R X.
00:14:37.919 --> 00:14:39.279
I love that car little car.
00:14:39.519 --> 00:14:41.200
Um, I almost like got arrested that day.
00:14:41.279 --> 00:14:48.080
Not that they had any time to mess with me, but I was like driving down one-way streets because she was coming trying to get home.
00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:51.279
And so she she ended up, I mean, it looked like something out of a movie.
00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:56.240
There was like a triage down in Jersey City, like by the water where people were coming off all the ferries.
00:14:56.399 --> 00:14:57.759
And she's like walking down the street.
00:14:57.840 --> 00:14:58.799
It was like The Walking Dead.
00:14:58.879 --> 00:15:02.799
She was like walking down the street with like dirt all over her barefoot, holding one shoe.
00:15:03.120 --> 00:15:03.679
Where was she at?
00:15:03.840 --> 00:15:06.399
She was in in the city, like downtown Manhattan.
00:15:06.559 --> 00:15:09.120
Really, and just just being able to just get out of there.
00:15:09.200 --> 00:15:11.279
She like took off her shoes because people were running.
00:15:11.440 --> 00:15:14.559
And I'm like trying to get her because all the phones went out, actually.
00:15:14.720 --> 00:15:16.159
You couldn't really, I mean, this was back in the day.
00:15:16.240 --> 00:15:17.120
I was like, hello?
00:15:17.919 --> 00:15:20.960
Basically, it was like it was garbage, no signal was whatever.
00:15:21.120 --> 00:15:22.159
So we were able to communicate.
00:15:22.240 --> 00:15:23.679
She's like, I'll I'm coming here.
00:15:23.840 --> 00:15:29.919
So I was like trying to find her driving through basically what looked like a like a hospital triage situation.
00:15:30.000 --> 00:15:32.559
There were people in cots, it was crazy.
00:15:32.799 --> 00:15:40.159
And so I finally found her, and I'm like, but literally, I was like driving down one-way streets, and I was like being pulled over, and I was like, Ew, and I was like just driving around.
00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:41.200
It was terrifying.
00:15:41.360 --> 00:15:46.879
Um, and then the city, uh, Jersey City, even because there was like I think there was a mosque that was right there.
00:15:47.039 --> 00:15:49.519
And so there was like maybe some people that they thought were involved.
00:15:49.600 --> 00:15:52.639
So I mean, there was like armed guards on every corner for like three months.
00:15:53.360 --> 00:15:54.720
I mean, it was so weird.
00:15:54.960 --> 00:15:57.679
It was it was a very surreal, surreal time.
00:15:57.759 --> 00:15:58.960
I mean, it was bizarre.
00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:04.000
And like I said, I don't know whatever happened to that, but I was like hanging out my 16th floor window.
00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:07.039
I mean, like literally filming it go down, and I had a pretty decent view.
00:16:07.600 --> 00:16:09.120
Oh, you filming the collapse?
00:16:09.519 --> 00:16:10.879
Did you see the second plane?
00:16:11.039 --> 00:16:14.159
Or no, not from where I not from where yeah, not from where I was.
00:16:14.240 --> 00:16:15.200
It was too far away for that.
00:16:15.279 --> 00:16:23.360
But I mean, and then the the st what's so weird is that it the smoke that stayed there for so long.
00:16:23.679 --> 00:16:32.240
Like you people don't even realize how like just this black plume of like it took forever for that thing to clear, and that was like it was wild.
00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:33.919
But onto happier things.
00:16:34.240 --> 00:16:47.120
So the expiration date of New York, I think for us, I mean to give you context, I mean, people who live in other places of the world, we didn't have laundry in our building.
00:16:48.159 --> 00:16:51.600
So I was, you know, walking down the street.
00:16:51.840 --> 00:16:57.759
Our parking garage was over a mile from Hold on, hold on.
00:16:58.080 --> 00:16:58.639
Say that again.
00:16:58.879 --> 00:16:59.039
Okay.
00:16:59.200 --> 00:17:01.759
So for those in the back, I'll say it louder.
00:17:02.080 --> 00:17:07.119
Our parking garage where you park your car was uh over a mile and a half away.
00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:10.480
And you had to call an hour in advance.
00:17:10.960 --> 00:17:12.880
I need my car at 10 a.m.
00:17:13.440 --> 00:17:15.119
And then you had to take a bus.
00:17:15.359 --> 00:17:19.039
And I usually would do the walk, but it was a bit of a slog.
00:17:19.680 --> 00:17:20.640
Just to get the car.
00:17:20.799 --> 00:17:30.400
And my parking garage price was most uh more than my mortgage and most people's mortgages payments, just the garage.
00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:35.440
It's it's it's you had to call 'em, and then you still had to go get it, so it wasn't like valet.
00:17:35.680 --> 00:17:42.880
Well, I mean, valet in the sense where they they pulled it up to the little like it's like a you know proper parking garage, so they pulled it up for me once I called or whatever.
00:17:42.960 --> 00:17:45.119
But it you know, I would take a bus to get the car.
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:49.920
I mean it was like Why even at that point?
00:17:50.079 --> 00:17:52.559
I feel like it's yeah, like why have a car?
00:17:52.880 --> 00:18:00.559
Well, the only reason we got the car is because during the pandemic we lived in a really, really small apartment, and so we packed up and bought a car.
00:18:01.039 --> 00:18:09.759
And it was during the time of the pandemic, and if anyone bought a car during that time, you know what I mean, is that it was very difficult to get a car because everyone was buying a car.
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:15.759
And we rented an Airbnb in Colorado and we drove across the country and stayed there for like five months.
00:18:17.599 --> 00:18:21.599
Yeah, so all we could do was go to Whole Foods and Hike and that's what we did.
00:18:22.319 --> 00:18:27.519
To be outside because we lived in Brooklyn and it was it was it was I mean, we couldn't have survived in that way.
00:18:28.079 --> 00:18:31.279
It was too small and Brooklyn.
00:18:31.519 --> 00:18:45.920
I mean parts of Brooklyn, if people don't know if you're not from the area, Brooklyn, these parts of Brooklyn, especially where we were out pretty far in Brooklyn, those neighborhoods were never meant to be uh you know convenient necessarily.
00:18:46.079 --> 00:18:51.119
It was like I can't get a prescription filled at CVS, but I can have artisanal pizza.
00:18:52.640 --> 00:18:55.200
It's the most inconvenient.
00:18:55.440 --> 00:18:57.920
I'm like, Well, that's the whole script thing.
00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:07.119
Yeah, that's hilarious because you can go to a doctor's office and they prescribe you something, but they don't have something there.
00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:07.759
Right.
00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:12.400
Well, I mean, yeah, like the functional parts of Brooklyn, we were just like, what are we even doing here?
00:19:12.480 --> 00:19:18.000
We couldn't get anything done because you were like, you know, and this was early pandemic where everyone was like washing cereal boxes.
00:19:18.240 --> 00:19:18.480
Wow.
00:19:18.720 --> 00:19:19.759
And everyone had gloves on.
00:19:19.839 --> 00:19:20.480
It was brutal.
00:19:20.640 --> 00:19:23.039
It was just like not a a thing I I don't think we could have.
00:19:23.519 --> 00:19:24.880
What's your favorite cereal?
00:19:25.279 --> 00:19:28.480
Uh, you know, I mean, back in the day.
00:19:29.359 --> 00:19:34.640
Back in the day, uh my favorite of all time, fruity pebbles.
00:19:36.240 --> 00:19:39.839
Mine was cinematose crunch, but I'll tell you, have you heard of magic spoon?
00:19:40.240 --> 00:19:40.640
I have.
00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:43.839
It's like the they redid all of the, but like healthy, right?
00:19:44.319 --> 00:19:44.400
Yeah.
00:19:44.640 --> 00:19:45.039
I haven't tried.
00:19:45.200 --> 00:19:45.680
Have you tried them?
00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:46.079
Yeah.
00:19:46.400 --> 00:19:48.319
They they sent me a a spoon.
00:19:48.640 --> 00:19:52.799
And the spoon's awesome because it literally the handle of it is a straw.
00:19:53.119 --> 00:19:54.079
Oh, so you can do it.
00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.400
So you can be like, oh, wait a minute.
00:19:57.680 --> 00:19:58.079
Nice.
00:19:58.319 --> 00:20:00.079
So you said you lived in Indianapolis for a while.
00:20:00.240 --> 00:20:02.720
So you're you're definitely so you're are you're not from Richmond originally.
00:20:02.880 --> 00:20:03.519
You said Lynn, right?
00:20:03.599 --> 00:20:04.000
You're from Lynn?
00:20:04.319 --> 00:20:08.400
Yeah, half my family was in Lynn, half of them south of Richmond.
00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:08.960
Okay.
00:20:09.200 --> 00:20:09.599
Stuff like that.
00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:10.880
And you lived in Indy, though.
00:20:11.039 --> 00:20:11.839
In the city or outside?
00:20:12.240 --> 00:20:14.240
2008, 2012, I lived downtown.
00:20:14.400 --> 00:20:15.599
A mile, a mile east of the mall.
00:20:15.839 --> 00:20:17.599
So that's I mean, I've been to Indy.
00:20:17.680 --> 00:20:19.200
That's I mean, that's city living.
00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:20.319
Yeah, yeah.
00:20:20.720 --> 00:20:25.039
And when I first moved there, um I moved there to do EMS.
00:20:25.279 --> 00:20:26.720
I was a civilian EMT.
00:20:27.039 --> 00:20:27.359
Right.
00:20:27.599 --> 00:20:35.359
Um I moved to Highland Avenue, right at Washington and Highland, eight eighteen North Highland.
00:20:35.599 --> 00:20:39.119
Um and I was like, oh my God, a big city.
00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:40.960
This is you know, and I loved it.
00:20:41.039 --> 00:20:41.440
I loved it.
00:20:41.680 --> 00:20:42.160
I loved it.
00:20:42.240 --> 00:20:46.480
No matter what you wanted to do, like the first two years I was a party animal.
00:20:46.559 --> 00:20:46.799
Right.
00:20:47.039 --> 00:20:50.720
Second two years I was I got into more health and fitness.
00:20:51.039 --> 00:20:53.680
Well, because you could walk you could use either public transportation or walk.
00:20:53.759 --> 00:20:54.559
You didn't have to drive, right?
00:20:54.960 --> 00:20:55.519
No, no.
00:20:55.759 --> 00:21:02.319
And I would drive like soon when I moved there, I would always drive out to the east side to do my shopping and stuff.
00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:02.720
Right.
00:21:03.039 --> 00:21:06.400
Um because I was afraid to even try to drive downtown.
00:21:06.559 --> 00:21:08.400
I'm like, let's just drive downtown.
00:21:08.480 --> 00:21:08.720
Yeah.
00:21:08.880 --> 00:21:12.720
And once you do that, it's just it's not a big city.
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:20.960
It's literally, I compared it to Richmond because you have your Maryland that's a one-way to the east.
00:21:21.119 --> 00:21:28.559
You have your New York that's a one-way, I think, to the east, Michigan one way to the west, um Pennsylvania one way to the south.
00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:30.400
So it's kind of it's set up.
00:21:30.640 --> 00:21:33.039
All your one ways are just like Richmond.
00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:33.279
Yeah.
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:35.440
North A South at 8th and 9th.
00:21:35.599 --> 00:21:42.960
Um So Yeah, after I realized that, and and they do they do a grid system, they do a coordinate system.
00:21:43.119 --> 00:21:48.079
So Meridian in Washington in downtown Indy is zero zero.
00:21:48.319 --> 00:21:48.480
Okay.
00:21:49.119 --> 00:21:53.039
Washington in post road is nine thousand and zero.
00:21:53.759 --> 00:21:55.039
So they do a coordinate system.
00:21:55.119 --> 00:22:01.680
So when you're doing EMS, right, you you almost don't even have to have address if you Just if they just gave you the thing, right?
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:08.640
If they said like 8750 east, zero north, zero south, then you know it's right before Post Road.
00:22:08.799 --> 00:22:09.200
Yeah.
00:22:09.680 --> 00:22:11.680
But um I loved it.
00:22:11.839 --> 00:22:12.960
I loved every bit of it.
00:22:13.200 --> 00:22:15.599
But and I didn't plan on moving.
00:22:15.839 --> 00:22:17.680
Um it was just a career offer.
00:22:17.839 --> 00:22:18.160
Right.
00:22:18.319 --> 00:22:20.799
That the the only reason I moved back.
00:22:20.880 --> 00:22:21.920
But Yeah.
00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:24.640
A lot of people have asked, you know, did you move here for work?
00:22:24.799 --> 00:22:32.240
You know, because like I said, it doesn't it doesn't like the it doesn't make a lot of sense as far as what the normal trajectory of what people do.
00:22:32.400 --> 00:22:36.960
Because most people do the opposite, or they're like move to the city from somewhere else or whatever.
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:43.440
But like I said, when you you know, I mean imagining like, you know, when you're from somewhere, just like people here, we're like, I can't wait to get out.
00:22:43.599 --> 00:22:46.160
Like I think it's just always gonna be the thing that you want to do.
00:22:46.400 --> 00:22:54.079
Well, I think in our age ranges, um we tend to want to keep going to the next place.
00:22:54.400 --> 00:22:54.720
Right.
00:22:55.119 --> 00:22:58.000
W whether that's work, whether that's where we live.
00:22:58.240 --> 00:23:02.480
Like I think it was the generation um before you.
00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:04.880
I think are you considered a millennial?
00:23:05.279 --> 00:23:05.839
Oh god, no.
00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:07.359
Uh no, I'm Gen X all the way.
00:23:07.680 --> 00:23:08.079
Gen X.
00:23:08.400 --> 00:23:10.240
I'm the upper end of millennials, I think.
00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:10.960
I'm 41.
00:23:11.279 --> 00:23:11.359
Okay.
00:23:11.519 --> 00:23:11.920
Yep, yes.
00:23:12.000 --> 00:23:14.720
So you're a little bit younger than my wife because she's right on the cusp.
00:23:14.880 --> 00:23:20.720
There's certain like there's certain like if you if you read different places, she's like 1980.
00:23:21.039 --> 00:23:24.720
So it depends on who, you know, is doing the calculating.
00:23:24.799 --> 00:23:29.359
Sometimes she's a like a millennial or a like a very, very late Gen Xer type thing.
00:23:29.680 --> 00:23:32.319
So what was the one before you, before Gen X?
00:23:32.720 --> 00:23:34.480
Uh oh, baby boomers.
00:23:35.599 --> 00:23:40.480
I think those are the ones that tend to stay in an area forever.
00:23:40.559 --> 00:23:41.119
Aaron Ross Powell Right.
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:46.319
I mean, because pension.
00:23:46.720 --> 00:23:47.359
Or yeah.
00:23:47.759 --> 00:23:50.559
I mean, you could, I mean, and it was after the war, right?
00:23:50.720 --> 00:23:56.559
And so those people grew up in that like, you know, 1950s and everything was build, build, build.
00:23:56.720 --> 00:24:01.279
And like all the, you know, the terrible stuff that we now know and we're trying to get rid of was just happening behind the scenes.
00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:03.839
We just didn't live in a culture where that was out in the open.
00:24:04.000 --> 00:24:07.599
Where, I mean, like, you know, no need to tell that story.
00:24:07.759 --> 00:24:09.759
So it looked great and rosy on the outside.
00:24:09.839 --> 00:24:15.920
However, there was a lot of structural things that were very, very detrimental that we're feeling, still feeling the wrath from now.
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:17.359
I mean, in every way.
00:24:17.519 --> 00:24:31.039
And organizationally, like I said, I mean, most of the things, I mean, from a corporate America standpoint, most of the problems that still exist are the archaic structural norms that people put in place literally when people came back from the war.
00:24:31.200 --> 00:24:33.279
They're like, let's make business just like the military.
00:24:33.359 --> 00:24:34.480
And that's how they structured it.
00:24:34.720 --> 00:24:37.680
And it's hierarchical and it was based on powers concentrated at the top.
00:24:37.759 --> 00:24:38.480
I mean, it just started wrong.
00:24:38.799 --> 00:24:39.279
Dictatorship.
00:24:39.599 --> 00:24:40.640
Yeah, it started wrong.
00:24:40.880 --> 00:24:47.359
You know, so and when I say wrong, I just mean like over time at scale, it it couldn't grow into something different.
00:24:47.440 --> 00:24:52.480
And then when different people were entering the workforce, and obviously like technology, it couldn't adapt.
00:24:52.640 --> 00:24:52.960
Right.
00:24:53.039 --> 00:24:55.039
And so in the mid-90s, right?
00:24:55.279 --> 00:25:01.119
Well, even earlier than that, people were like, I work at a machine shop, I do this and I put this up here and I put it down.
00:25:01.200 --> 00:25:07.839
It was very easy to quantify and measure how much money you're making versus how much money it takes someone to do that, right?
00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:09.359
Because it's a physical product.
00:25:09.440 --> 00:25:11.359
It's like the industrial revolution.
00:25:11.440 --> 00:25:12.319
It was like it made sense.
00:25:12.400 --> 00:25:12.880
It was math.
00:25:12.960 --> 00:25:15.359
It was like effort in, product out.
00:25:15.519 --> 00:25:16.640
That's what math is.
00:25:16.799 --> 00:25:21.839
And then in the 1980s, 90s, knowledge work started to be a thing.
00:25:21.920 --> 00:25:31.440
And it's like, how do you quantify how much value I place on what your output is as a marketing person who's sitting at your desk on a computer sending emails?
00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:43.839
And like the whole system broke, and they didn't really necessarily course correct, but the right trainings involved to really understand how to, you know, uh measure value.
00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:56.319
And the two if I had two bumper stickers, I would say number one is people say like oh my god, um operations is a cost center.
00:25:56.400 --> 00:26:02.079
I'm like, oh, it's not though, it's not, it's not operations, is also not a department, right?
00:26:02.240 --> 00:26:10.640
So these are the things that just to give you context, all of our five listeners, watchers, um the type of operations that I've done.
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:14.000
So I'm a career project management operations person.
00:26:14.160 --> 00:26:18.559
So I'm on the ground floor of most things as a as a trade my whole career.
00:26:19.519 --> 00:26:22.559
So I know and have had to suffer through how things work.
00:26:22.880 --> 00:26:33.359
So when I say operations, like I mean specifically operational workflow, like the things that you do to output, deliver whatever products and services that you do.
00:26:33.519 --> 00:26:34.160
Don't care what it is.
00:26:34.240 --> 00:26:39.759
It's a widget, it's a service, whatever it is, there's the way that you get things done to delivery.
00:26:40.559 --> 00:26:41.359
Is that successful?
00:26:41.519 --> 00:26:43.119
Are you are are the people buying your things?
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:44.240
Are the people buying your things?
00:26:44.319 --> 00:26:46.640
Do you have enough money because you're selling your things?
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:57.839
And to me, right, so that's if you're a person whose career is based on delivery, which is I'm the goal person, like you have a goal, like I need this to be done.
00:26:58.160 --> 00:26:59.519
Like that's where I live.
00:26:59.920 --> 00:27:08.400
And everything else north of that, depending on how where you look at it, is most of the ways that you can define what the problems are.
00:27:08.559 --> 00:27:16.000
It's never going to be at the point of delivery where people are like, we need new technology, we need new project managers, we need new something.
00:27:16.079 --> 00:27:19.200
And it's like, well, do you though?
00:27:19.440 --> 00:27:19.839
Do you?
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:21.119
Well, let's find out why.
00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:25.920
And you start pulling that thread, and the only way that that thread goes is up, right?
00:27:26.160 --> 00:27:29.920
And there's one thing that you have to sort out, which is the leadership part of it.
00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:45.519
Whoever's designing your environment, whoever's in charge of the things, it's not going to be at the end of like when you think about FedEx or UPS or a person, whatever Amazon, something coming to your home and the box is squosh and everything's bad.
00:27:45.599 --> 00:27:49.599
It's like that's not where you start to find the problem, you know what I mean?
00:27:49.759 --> 00:27:50.960
Like, even if it is the driver.
00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:53.839
Like that and it could be or it couldn't be.
00:27:54.240 --> 00:27:57.519
My point is to say it's like a plumber, like, I only fix faucets.
00:27:58.079 --> 00:28:00.640
Like, well, that's not really what's wrong.
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:01.680
It's behind the wall.
00:28:01.759 --> 00:28:02.240
It's the pipes.
00:28:02.480 --> 00:28:04.319
Be like, no, no, no, we just fixed faucets here.
00:28:04.400 --> 00:28:05.039
That's all we fix.
00:28:05.119 --> 00:28:10.480
It's just the thing where the water comes out, and I'm like, well, that's probably not where the problem lies.
00:28:10.880 --> 00:28:20.240
But structurally, that's I think where people, if they don't know, they look at the source of like the last mile or the you know, you know, you know what I'm saying.
00:28:21.200 --> 00:28:22.799
And that's not correct.
00:28:23.519 --> 00:28:26.000
I'm still uh I'm still stuck on the bumper sticker.
00:28:26.319 --> 00:28:27.200
Oh, so the bumper sticker is a good thing.
00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:27.920
There's a third one.
00:28:29.599 --> 00:28:33.359
The first bumper sticker is number one is operations is not a cost center.
00:28:33.599 --> 00:28:54.400
Because when they decided that that was a thing, it was in the, I guess, in the mid-century, it was an accounting principle because they didn't place value on that type of of operational value of fixing like one of the best things to do for like a service-based organization is invest your money in training project managers dollar for dollar.
00:28:56.000 --> 00:29:02.640
Based that on that old principle, that's not what like because people look at that like they put it in a category, well, that's not gonna make us money.
00:29:02.799 --> 00:29:10.160
And I'm like, Yeah, well, if your shit's done right, people will buy more of it, right?
00:29:10.880 --> 00:29:14.960
And that didn't exist yet, like that mindset was not a thing.
00:29:15.200 --> 00:29:16.079
So that's number one.
00:29:16.240 --> 00:29:18.000
Number two is what is it?
00:29:18.160 --> 00:29:22.079
I I always mess it up because it actually infuriates me so much I think I block it out.
00:29:22.960 --> 00:29:30.240
Uh when people say uh work, you have to work uh on your business, not in your business.
00:29:30.400 --> 00:29:37.920
You know, when people say that, like when people are telling entrepreneurs things, stop working on your business or whatever, whatever the thing is.
00:29:38.000 --> 00:29:43.920
You you know you know that the that's also a load of, you know, you know what.
00:29:44.559 --> 00:29:48.640
They want to work harder on how to get out of working in it.
00:29:49.119 --> 00:30:07.680
Well, well, the thing of it is is people if you if if people consider, if you are a business owner and you consider when people, you know, say stop working in your business, meaning like wasting time, they call it, doing all of the admin and stuff like yes, from that standpoint, you have to look at where your value is as far as where your time is best spent.
00:30:07.920 --> 00:30:08.640
That is true.
00:30:08.880 --> 00:30:13.200
However, you do have to spend a lot of time setting that up properly.
00:30:13.359 --> 00:30:19.279
You there's no cheat code and there's no automation and there's nothing to do with setting up good operational principles.
00:30:19.680 --> 00:30:24.000
Nothing, you can't get around it because everything, everything sources out from there.
00:30:24.160 --> 00:30:28.160
So I think when people say that, they're like, well, you know, they just want to sort of shlough it off.
00:30:28.319 --> 00:30:33.599
Because listen, if I open a cupcake shop because I'm the best cupcake maker in the world, it doesn't mean that I'm great at everything else.
00:30:33.680 --> 00:30:37.279
And I think that's what's happening, where people are like, oh no, get somebody else to do that.
00:30:37.599 --> 00:30:46.319
But if you're the leader and you don't know how to articulate how you want the business to run, and those like it's like so if you don't know, find somebody who does know to help you.
00:30:46.480 --> 00:30:47.039
You know what I mean?
00:30:47.119 --> 00:30:50.640
So you can't just, and that's where, and you and I have already talked about this.
00:30:50.799 --> 00:31:19.119
You know, people who are uh have a company, but they're they're terrible managers and they can't deal with people, you know, and like those people are gonna leave if they don't get what they want and get what they want, whether that's a process or a tool or the right communication or a toxic work environment, whatever it is, that's on you to figure out if you are whole if like that sign, you know, the buck stops with you, if you're if that's on your desk, it is your responsibility, full stop, to be able to create an environment where good work can happen.
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:21.759
And I'm not saying I know how that should show up for you.
00:31:21.920 --> 00:31:23.440
That's that's every business is different.
00:31:23.759 --> 00:31:24.319
Of course, right.
00:31:24.400 --> 00:31:29.279
And so that's when you you hear consultants selling sort of like off-the-shelf happy meal.
00:31:29.440 --> 00:31:30.799
You know, that's the thing.
00:31:32.000 --> 00:31:46.400
I'm a victim of my own, my own sort of um uh I guess ideas about how that shows up because if you go on LinkedIn, there's a lot of like a lot of charlatans, people selling a lot of you know, like snake oil of like oil.
00:31:46.640 --> 00:31:50.079
Oh, every every process in this, oh, it's like out of here.
00:31:50.160 --> 00:31:51.920
It's like how much such thing.
00:31:52.079 --> 00:31:52.640
It's everywhere.
00:31:52.880 --> 00:31:53.039
Right.
00:31:53.359 --> 00:31:54.160
It's everywhere.
00:31:54.319 --> 00:32:09.759
It's there's local uh wants to wants to sell that snake oil and wants to tell you your strategy, um, wants to charge you a lot of money, and they have eight failing businesses stacked behind them.
00:32:10.079 --> 00:32:10.319
Correct.
00:32:10.480 --> 00:32:18.720
And you and I have also talked about something we share in common is the view that marketing is not going to solve your business problems.
00:32:19.279 --> 00:32:25.359
It's only if it works at its core, if it works, then you will get more business.
00:32:25.440 --> 00:32:32.240
And here's the thing if you get more business and you don't have good things in place and good operational principles and all the things.
00:32:32.640 --> 00:32:35.359
Well it it works.
00:32:35.519 --> 00:32:38.000
So when it works well, you will get more business, right?
00:32:38.079 --> 00:32:52.240
And then if you don't know how to handle that, and if all that inside workings of the inner um pieces of a business aren't working correctly, you know, then well, uh my marketing, uh, let's do something different.
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:58.319
Well, and I I get a ton of that through many past past, current, whatever.
00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:04.000
Um marketing will always work if you give it the right effort and you do the right strategy.
00:33:04.160 --> 00:33:06.240
But what does working mean?
00:33:06.480 --> 00:33:11.759
Working means it's going to amplify exactly what your business is tenfold, right?
00:33:12.000 --> 00:33:18.079
So if your business is horrible, uh don't invest in ad spend.
00:33:18.400 --> 00:33:22.640
Don't invest because that marketing is going to push your business out of there.
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:29.119
And if your business is horrible, you don't now more people know that your business is horrible because they're going to have a poor experience.
00:33:29.359 --> 00:33:31.599
You're not going to answer your phone, you're not going to reply to an email.
00:33:31.920 --> 00:33:32.079
Yep.
00:33:32.160 --> 00:33:35.599
If you don't have the proper resources in place, even for the people, and that's that's the other thing, too.
00:33:35.680 --> 00:33:46.960
And that's where it comes down to so many people are checked out, is if I already can't handle the business that I have because I don't have what I need, and you're out there getting more business for me, it'd be like, well, we need we need sales, we need money.
00:33:47.119 --> 00:33:56.000
Well, if it's just math where people are like, well, we need a consultant because we have to, you know, uh save money, well, that's not the right question.
00:33:56.480 --> 00:33:58.240
No, it's an investment.
00:33:58.880 --> 00:34:01.440
There's a return on that investment when you want to make money.
00:34:01.759 --> 00:34:01.920
Of course.
00:34:02.160 --> 00:34:03.839
So I mean, I guess let me ask you a question.
00:34:04.000 --> 00:34:15.920
So when you are up against that, right, as a marketer, because you're out there, right, you know, on behalf of the people, trying to get business for more people, essentially, by highlighting in whatever which way they've decided to do that.
00:34:16.079 --> 00:34:24.320
So is that something that you are able to like is it obvious to them that that's what the problem is?
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:26.000
There's a reason I'm asking that.
00:34:26.480 --> 00:34:30.079
Um, it's not, but we make it obvious.
00:34:30.239 --> 00:34:30.400
Right.
00:34:30.800 --> 00:34:33.280
Because there's a such thing as negative persona.
00:34:33.360 --> 00:34:35.519
I'm not going to take anybody's money to do their marketing.
00:34:35.679 --> 00:34:35.760
Right.
00:34:36.079 --> 00:34:39.920
So if if there's a a negative persona there.
00:34:40.079 --> 00:34:52.639
So literally if if they're if something is in their mind to where they'll blame their marketing because they'll blame their broken system on their marketing.
00:34:53.840 --> 00:34:55.920
If the marketing is oversuccessful.
00:34:56.559 --> 00:35:06.960
Or if if the marketing is not working because there's not people pounding down the door to this business that is non-responsive.
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:07.519
Right.
00:35:07.599 --> 00:35:08.880
And they've dealt with the customer service.
00:35:09.360 --> 00:35:10.400
And they blame the marketing.
00:35:10.559 --> 00:35:10.639
Right.
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:11.840
They also don't fit.
00:35:11.920 --> 00:35:12.079
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:12.320
Right.
00:35:12.559 --> 00:35:20.719
Well, and I think the reason I asked is because from the other side of things, like I I decided after you know many years of being in operations, project management, and all sorts of things.
00:35:20.880 --> 00:35:24.079
Well, I had a most of my career was in creative.
00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:30.559
So I had the you know, blessing and the curse of working with every industry because we were just the people who print the code.
00:35:30.800 --> 00:35:33.920
Talk about some of the experiences in New York City with your career.
00:35:34.320 --> 00:35:34.480
Yeah.
00:35:34.559 --> 00:35:43.599
And so everybody uh would need either printing, design, and we ultimately were, you know, I got into events, experiential marketing, all sorts of things.
00:35:45.119 --> 00:35:59.440
So in that, right, you get pretty intimately close because the company that I've worked for, obviously, you know, I worked for a long period of time in at one particular company, but and we shared the value of you're not a vendor or a contractor.
00:35:59.840 --> 00:36:02.320
The types of clients that we had, we were really partners.
00:36:02.880 --> 00:36:09.519
And the reason that that is true is because, like, you know, the industries that I worked in, I had a lot of banking clients, a lot of finance.
00:36:10.239 --> 00:36:11.679
So when someone calls you at 9 a.m.
00:36:12.400 --> 00:36:17.280
sends you the files, and they need that stuff back by noon in their hand.
00:36:18.079 --> 00:36:28.559
And that's getting it done, getting it packed up, driving through however, you know, New York City trafficking, getting it through a mail room of a 150-story uh high-rise corporation.
00:36:28.800 --> 00:36:40.800
Like that's like not gonna happen unless you are partnered with people like for me as a project manager, my clients would know after after many years, they don't pad their deadlines, they can't.
00:36:40.880 --> 00:36:43.039
Because if you don't tell me the truth, I can't help you.
00:36:43.199 --> 00:36:46.880
So basically it's like, well, at noon, what are you doing with this package I'm gonna give you?
00:36:47.039 --> 00:36:47.920
Are you getting on a plane?
00:36:48.079 --> 00:36:48.800
Are you going home?
00:36:49.119 --> 00:36:49.840
Where's the event?
00:36:50.000 --> 00:36:50.639
What's happening?
00:36:50.800 --> 00:36:59.360
Tell me everything because if something goes wrong, I already have to have plan B in place currently at the same time, parallel path.
00:36:59.599 --> 00:37:02.960
So I have to have like my freight guide be like, listen, I might have to get this stuff on a plane.
00:37:03.039 --> 00:37:04.079
And these are the high-stakes stuff.
00:37:04.320 --> 00:37:12.079
I didn't obviously do this for every job, but my point is that over time, right, that's a partnership that's based on trust, and that doesn't happen overnight.
00:37:12.159 --> 00:37:13.599
You don't call a vendor for a printer.
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:19.760
I mean, I've started in this industry, like basically we were the equivalent of Kinkos, if you remember what that is.
00:37:20.079 --> 00:37:24.000
Before Staples started printing and FedEx started printing, they were like a print shop.
00:37:24.079 --> 00:37:27.519
Basically, it was like, you know, a bunch of kids running a copier back then.
00:37:27.840 --> 00:37:29.519
And we were not that.
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:48.000
It was like it was very uh almost concierge type environment where the clients were very, you know, um there was a lot of critical you know, and again, in context, I mean, you know, it wasn't we weren't, you know, saving lives in the ER, but it was pr pretty intense the types of jobs that we did.
00:37:48.159 --> 00:37:53.440
So we were something very different than what people thought of as digital printing at the time, I guess.
00:37:53.840 --> 00:37:54.400
That's what I'm saying.
00:37:54.639 --> 00:38:01.519
So over time you develop these relationships and like so I'm like in your business, you know, essentially, because I have to be.
00:38:02.079 --> 00:38:07.840
And so over time at scale, I mean, you get to see how different people do their things.
00:38:08.000 --> 00:38:09.440
Like, how are you getting this done?
00:38:09.599 --> 00:38:09.840
Right.
00:38:10.079 --> 00:38:20.639
And so for me, and that's the reason it obviously made a uh, you know, a lot of sense at the end of my career that I would consult because I've seen everything in that I'm here for the work.
00:38:21.119 --> 00:38:24.559
You tell me you need something, I can't mess with all that other nonsense.
00:38:24.960 --> 00:38:29.920
All your politics, all your approvals, all the power struggles, all the hierarchy, all the things.
00:38:30.000 --> 00:38:33.679
Uh because if it's in my way, then I I can't get it done.
00:38:34.000 --> 00:38:34.239
Right.
00:38:34.320 --> 00:38:40.880
And so you start to recognize and you can almost diagnose immediately what the deal is.
00:38:41.199 --> 00:38:50.719
And I think again, this is bringing back our conversation of of you know where you are in your career and the and the ways things have changed back in the day in the 90s.
00:38:50.960 --> 00:38:56.800
I had art directors, like people who are now up here who don't, you know, they don't normally send stuff out now.
00:38:57.519 --> 00:38:58.800
Four levels down does.
00:38:59.280 --> 00:39:00.320
It didn't used to be that way.
00:39:00.480 --> 00:39:03.920
So the person I would be calling would actually be the person who set up the file.
00:39:04.159 --> 00:39:11.679
And it's sometimes still true, but a lot of times it's like a first-year project manager now, or an intern, or whatever, somebody's assistant.
00:39:12.320 --> 00:39:18.719
And so there's like a there's a huge knowledge gap of like, I'm like, your files are corrupt, and they're like, what?
00:39:18.880 --> 00:39:19.519
Okay, hold on.
00:39:19.760 --> 00:39:20.239
What's that mean?
00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:22.320
I have to get back to you, I have to call my bows.
00:39:22.559 --> 00:39:24.320
It's like see what I'm saying?
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:26.400
So I'm sure you can relate to some of that.
00:39:26.559 --> 00:39:34.400
So you you I'm sure wear the hat of a project manager, whether or not you even know that that's part of your job.
00:39:34.800 --> 00:39:40.719
I would say I would say 99.9% of our contracts that go out.
00:39:42.559 --> 00:39:58.960
We don't meet the contract because I'll sell this marketing campaign for 12 months, 18 months, six months sometimes, but I don't like to do less than that because you really can't, there's no measurable data there.
00:39:59.360 --> 00:40:10.159
But um and this contract might say like three organic social posts on four different platforms and one media day, one photo day.
00:40:10.320 --> 00:40:22.239
It might but once we're inside the business, then we realize like, okay, it needs more ads, less or less organic.
00:40:22.559 --> 00:40:29.760
Um and they're also now they're more of a partner because they're calling me, texting me at 1 a.m.
00:40:31.840 --> 00:40:38.960
You know, so or or they need another website for another property that wasn't in that contract.
00:40:39.599 --> 00:40:58.239
And and I'm not complaining at all, but I'm saying like once you're in that business with that initial purchase agreement and you're under contract as their marketing vendor, and um, like you said, you become a partner, but you'll see like, oh, that's not exactly what they needed.
00:40:58.480 --> 00:40:58.639
Right.
00:40:58.960 --> 00:40:59.679
You learn more.
00:41:00.079 --> 00:41:06.480
And and it might be like one of my clients, uh, she's a real estate agent locally.
00:41:06.880 --> 00:41:21.440
And when we three years ago is when we started together, and uh in that first year, it included like a media day every three months, every two months, where she was going to come up here and do a bunch of video.
00:41:21.840 --> 00:41:22.159
Right.
00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:27.599
Well, I learned, and it didn't have all of her real estate listings in that contract.
00:41:27.760 --> 00:41:31.039
But what I learned about her is she hated doing videos.
00:41:31.519 --> 00:41:48.559
And she and after we already did this thing, so so I'm like, how about we just do all of your real estate listings and then like film and photograph or whatever, and then social media posts from those listings and everything else.
00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:56.000
So definitely did not meet what the contract said, but it's what that business needed, it's what she needed, right?
00:41:56.159 --> 00:42:02.639
And then we go into year two, year three, and all I do was take year year two.
00:42:02.880 --> 00:42:11.039
When I sent my proposal for year two, it included some ad spend on some listings, but then it included all of her listings.
00:42:11.599 --> 00:42:19.039
No video day was in the contract, but if she said, Hey, I have an idea, I go find her and I have my camera and everything.
00:42:19.119 --> 00:42:21.840
Because that means she's she she's down to do a video.
00:42:22.079 --> 00:42:22.320
Right.
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:24.880
So that's not even in there now.
00:42:25.039 --> 00:42:25.920
So Right.
00:42:26.000 --> 00:42:40.239
Well, I think right, as a way to say, I mean, I I would say, especially with anything that's gonna be, I mean, the outcome is is only going to be based in certain instances on all of the variables that go along with it.
00:42:40.559 --> 00:42:47.599
So whatever the outcome is what you expect, all of the variables that I either don't know yet have to be factored in, right?
00:42:47.679 --> 00:42:56.400
So it's like if I'm selling you X, X honestly depends on every other thing that has to do with you think you getting to X.
00:42:56.719 --> 00:43:04.880
And how that shows up, like I said, that's why people, I'm like, I know you're full of shit if I see you coming a mile away and you're trying to sell me some operational stuff off of the shelf.
00:43:05.199 --> 00:43:06.239
It's not gonna happen.
00:43:06.480 --> 00:43:10.559
Yeah, because there's yes, there's like overarching principles of like process improvement, right?
00:43:10.639 --> 00:43:13.039
So there's, I mean, to me, like I said, I'm my own worst enemy.
00:43:13.119 --> 00:43:19.920
The consulting model to me, it does like I'm not a fit for that part of it, the way that it exists in the sense where how people do it.
00:43:20.000 --> 00:43:30.480
There's like, you know, obviously the big four, and there's a lot of other people who go in and they send some goofball in and they're like, uh, you know, that's like really good at talking, but they'll do all the things.
00:43:30.719 --> 00:43:41.440
Where I'm like, okay, so if you're doing them at some weird level of the corporation and you don't have full buy-in truly for things to really change, then honestly, I mean, like, you're just getting a contract, and that's okay.
00:43:41.519 --> 00:43:45.920
That's like that's a business that exists, that people just sort of maintain this charade.
00:43:46.000 --> 00:43:47.280
And I'm like, you do you.
00:43:47.519 --> 00:43:50.480
I'm sure there's other people who do it differently or whatever.
00:43:50.559 --> 00:43:57.920
But in my experience, that if you are going to go in to change or help, or like, I'm not selling anything.
00:43:58.079 --> 00:43:58.559
That's the thing.
00:43:58.639 --> 00:43:59.519
I'm I'm not selling anything.
00:44:00.079 --> 00:44:04.320
What I'm doing is that you are you are in exchange for a fee.
00:44:04.559 --> 00:44:09.599
I am sharing from my experience of what I know, how to get things done.
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:13.840
Then I have to work with you to see exactly what you said.
00:44:14.079 --> 00:44:15.280
What are you working with?
00:44:15.519 --> 00:44:17.360
It's like it's very diagnostic.
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:24.400
It's like um, it's like there's a uh in in healthcare, there's doctors they take soap notes, right?
00:44:24.480 --> 00:44:25.360
And then it's an acronym.
00:44:25.440 --> 00:44:30.079
It's like it's like subjective, objective, the assessment, and then the plan.
00:44:30.239 --> 00:44:31.039
And it's the same thing.
00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:33.440
I'm surprised you just like where does it hurt.
00:44:34.159 --> 00:44:34.559
You knew that.
00:44:34.800 --> 00:44:34.880
Yeah.
00:44:35.039 --> 00:44:36.400
It's like where does it hurt, right?
00:44:36.559 --> 00:44:38.800
You first have to tell me because it's like you're gonna tell me.
00:44:38.960 --> 00:44:42.719
And that's like subjectively what I know objectively.
00:44:43.119 --> 00:44:44.960
What about DCAT BTLS?
00:44:45.440 --> 00:44:48.159
Now that's outside my that's above my pay grade.
00:44:48.480 --> 00:44:49.360
I don't know that.
00:44:49.920 --> 00:44:59.280
Um deformities, contusions, abrasions, penetrations, slash punctures, burns, tenderness, laceration, and swelling.
00:44:59.599 --> 00:45:00.159
There you go.
00:45:00.320 --> 00:45:06.639
Well, do you watch I don't know if you're a fan of like because you used to work in sort of this this do you watch The Pit?
00:45:07.039 --> 00:45:07.920
Uh I haven't.
00:45:08.639 --> 00:45:11.039
So The Pit is like a, you know, it it won a lot of awards.
00:45:11.119 --> 00:45:11.679
It's very popular.
00:45:11.760 --> 00:45:14.800
It's basically about the Pittsburgh uh ER.
00:45:15.280 --> 00:45:21.519
So and you know, similar to like the show 24, where each episode I think each season is like a day.
00:45:21.920 --> 00:45:24.000
So each episode is like an hour of that day.
00:45:24.239 --> 00:45:25.119
Anyway.
00:45:25.519 --> 00:45:28.880
Again, not saving lives, full disclosure.
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:37.840
However, there is something very like you can learn, you can take, and that's what I've done, sort of as you know, a consulting model or whatever.
00:45:38.000 --> 00:45:44.960
I I love to look at other industries, other ways of doing things, and then apply them to because I think it's all kind of the same.
00:45:45.199 --> 00:45:47.519
Um someone's coming in, right?
00:45:47.599 --> 00:45:48.079
And you don't know.
00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:57.519
They're just like on a stretcher, and then like someone's like, such as yourself, the GMTs get running down in your head, like these are the five things that, like, oh, you know, saying all the acronyms.
00:45:57.679 --> 00:46:03.440
And you have to, based on your experience, your knowledge, how you react in the moment, all of those things, right?
00:46:03.519 --> 00:46:10.079
So for me, operationally, when there's something that's terribly wrong and someone's having me come in at like, is the airway good?
00:46:10.320 --> 00:46:10.880
That's right.
00:46:11.039 --> 00:46:12.000
And then you can map.
00:46:12.559 --> 00:46:13.199
Are they breathing?
00:46:13.440 --> 00:46:13.679
Right.
00:46:13.760 --> 00:46:15.360
So and then you can map though.
00:46:15.519 --> 00:46:23.760
I mean, truly, you can make a very clean line to the five things that are like the vitals of a business.
00:46:24.079 --> 00:46:24.639
Of a business.
00:46:24.800 --> 00:46:25.760
It's the same thing.
00:46:26.000 --> 00:46:46.239
So to me, like I said, I I at this point in my career, maybe three, four years ago, even before I started consulting, I mean, especially as a project manager back in the day, inherently, I think there's people who are either good at a certain thing, which is putting, like you have to have C patterns, you have to look at the hole, right?
00:46:46.320 --> 00:46:53.280
And you have to be good at going real far out and real minuscule at the same time, which is also very hard.
00:46:53.599 --> 00:47:01.519
And so, me, right, like like I said, at this sort of stage of my career and my life, all the project managers agree with me.
00:47:01.679 --> 00:47:07.519
Like, I don't need to like the I'm preaching to the converted when I tell the project managers what they need.
00:47:07.840 --> 00:47:11.840
They know I mean all day long I will help them survive it.
00:47:12.079 --> 00:47:20.639
I can give you strategies and I can tell you kind of probably what's going on in order, like these are the things that you can do to protect your own little um patch of land.
00:47:21.039 --> 00:47:25.599
But for me, like I said, I'm like the Karen of project management.
00:47:25.679 --> 00:47:27.679
I'm like, can I talk to your manager, please?
00:47:29.039 --> 00:47:29.519
Excuse me.
00:47:29.679 --> 00:47:30.639
Is your manager home?
00:47:31.199 --> 00:47:33.599
So that's where I am at my career.
00:47:33.760 --> 00:47:35.360
I need to talk to leadership.
00:47:35.440 --> 00:47:43.360
And and like I said, there's also something to be said for the fact that I don't have any interest, and there's maybe uh maybe this is just a personality thing.
00:47:43.519 --> 00:47:47.760
I have no interest and I have zero emotion when it comes to blame.
00:47:47.920 --> 00:47:50.719
Like accountability can be free of blame and fault.
00:47:50.960 --> 00:47:56.320
So if you're a business owner, like I said, and you're the best cupcake maker in the world, but you're a disaster in every other way.
00:47:56.400 --> 00:47:56.559
Trevor Burrus, Jr.
00:47:56.719 --> 00:48:06.880
And you want them to when they when you walk in, they don't know you, everything's objective, an uh unbiased look on their business.
00:48:07.119 --> 00:48:13.840
You don't want them to feel like you're attacking them, and you want them to recognize that they were the problem.
00:48:14.159 --> 00:48:14.320
Right.
00:48:14.639 --> 00:48:16.719
Well, and I think it's sort of the other way around too.
00:48:16.800 --> 00:48:23.199
And that's the other thing I've found, and and and again, where I sort of shifted my business model, and that some of this is needs-based.
00:48:23.280 --> 00:48:26.480
So when you're marketing, that's the other thing why people start to sell snake oil.
00:48:26.559 --> 00:48:31.519
Because they're like, I have operations, like like a potions on it right inside my trench coat.
00:48:31.760 --> 00:48:35.679
The problem is that it's like it's it's needs-based.
00:48:35.840 --> 00:48:43.039
So most of the time, honestly, there are a lot of people who have absolutely no idea they're the problem.
00:48:43.199 --> 00:48:47.199
And to me, they don't want to and that's not my job to convince them.
00:48:47.519 --> 00:48:49.840
That's my point, is that that's not the business I want to be in.
00:48:49.920 --> 00:48:51.199
I'm not a professional convincer.
00:48:51.360 --> 00:48:59.679
So I think for me, I think again, like I was saying, good people and I think the right people always end up finding themselves, finding each other.
00:48:59.920 --> 00:49:08.239
Because if if you are a person who's like, well, you know, all that, I don't know, all that resistance, we're not for each other.
00:49:08.400 --> 00:49:08.559
Right.
00:49:08.800 --> 00:49:11.519
Because that is not part of, like I said, I'm here for the work.
00:49:11.679 --> 00:49:18.880
And if all of that other stuff, there's other methods, there's other professions, there's other, there's other disciplines that can help that.
00:49:20.079 --> 00:49:22.880
I'm like, what is it that needs to happen here?
00:49:23.280 --> 00:49:24.719
And let's start from there.
00:49:24.880 --> 00:49:27.199
And there are leaders who are like, yeah, let's get into it.
00:49:27.280 --> 00:49:29.760
Because like I said, I I want to be positive about it.
00:49:29.920 --> 00:49:34.719
I want to be, you know, I'm here for like, here's some things that I've learned over the years.
00:49:34.880 --> 00:49:35.519
Let's get into it.
00:49:35.599 --> 00:49:36.400
What are you working with?
00:49:36.559 --> 00:49:37.119
Let's do this.
00:49:37.199 --> 00:49:38.320
And people are like, oh, cool.
00:49:38.400 --> 00:49:42.239
So you know when you're working with people who are passionate and excited, like, oh, this will help.
00:49:42.320 --> 00:49:42.639
Oh, great.
00:49:42.719 --> 00:49:48.159
And they're like, oh yeah, actually, some of it's gonna reflect and be like, I might have to change some of that in themselves.
00:49:48.400 --> 00:49:53.280
So you're talking a particular type of leader that I think is emetible to a consultant.
00:49:53.440 --> 00:49:57.760
Like, I think you already have to start in a place where you're susceptible.
00:49:57.920 --> 00:50:02.239
Like I said, in New York, at the end of the day, I started to feel like a door-to-door plumber.
00:50:02.480 --> 00:50:05.280
Like, knock, knock on your door, be like, Are your pipes clogged?
00:50:05.360 --> 00:50:06.079
How's your toilet?
00:50:06.239 --> 00:50:06.960
Is your sink good?
00:50:07.119 --> 00:50:07.840
Let me see your sink.
00:50:07.920 --> 00:50:08.400
Is it good?
00:50:08.559 --> 00:50:10.239
Did you put something down you shouldn't have?
00:50:10.400 --> 00:50:12.400
Like, that's not the business that I'm in.
00:50:12.480 --> 00:50:14.159
It's like you have to call me.
00:50:14.239 --> 00:50:17.440
Like if you're if your sink is stopped up, you like call me.
00:50:17.760 --> 00:50:21.039
I can't tell you that you have that you have plumbing problems.
00:50:21.119 --> 00:50:21.840
You know what I'm saying?
00:50:22.000 --> 00:50:24.960
So that's Yeah, you I I I see it.
00:50:25.119 --> 00:50:25.599
I see it.
00:50:25.679 --> 00:50:26.159
I see it.
00:50:26.480 --> 00:50:27.199
It's so many.
00:50:27.760 --> 00:50:31.199
Yeah, it's like the metaphors I could do them all day long, but it is true.
00:50:31.280 --> 00:50:37.280
It's it it starts to be, and like I said, if if this is where they will convince you you have a problem.
00:50:38.239 --> 00:50:39.440
Your toilet is clogged.
00:50:39.599 --> 00:50:41.679
Even though everything's flowing, your toilet's clogged.
00:50:42.000 --> 00:50:53.599
And and and AI, again, we can say table AI for the if if if I'm invited back on the podcast, we can table the um AI of it all because that is really, really thrown a loop.
00:50:54.559 --> 00:50:55.519
Everyone's an expert.
00:50:55.840 --> 00:51:17.119
Well, and also here's I mean, listen, it it like everything else with a tool, it's there's such good parts about it, and there's other parts, like, you know, and we're in we're just in one of those times in history where we are dealing with something that right it's gonna have to course correct and sort of probably, you know, even out somewhere, shake out, but who knows where that's gonna be yet.
00:51:17.280 --> 00:51:23.360
So I think it's just gotten everybody so um a kerfuffle, is like I like to call it.
00:51:23.440 --> 00:51:27.119
It's it's it's um it's it's crazy.
00:51:27.280 --> 00:51:40.960
So it does obviously, my point in saying that is that for people in your business and in mine, there's a there it touches so many different ways where also because of AI, everyone's a marketer now, because they do all the things, they create all the videos, everything's just complex.
00:51:41.760 --> 00:51:42.400
All the things.
00:51:42.639 --> 00:51:47.119
And so you know what that means, where you're like telling people like, stop doing that.
00:51:47.280 --> 00:51:50.079
So here's the thing too.
00:51:50.239 --> 00:52:00.880
And here's uh you know, there was some videos, um, short clips I put out the other day where I spoke at that organization up north about the use of AI in marketing.
00:52:01.119 --> 00:52:04.159
And AI is a great tool, right?
00:52:04.639 --> 00:52:10.079
Um But this goes back to is your business about you?
00:52:10.800 --> 00:52:15.679
Is your business about your employees, or is your business about your consumer?
00:52:15.920 --> 00:52:16.239
Right?
00:52:16.480 --> 00:52:20.000
So it's consumer attention, it's consumer behavior.
00:52:20.559 --> 00:52:31.840
So if you're posting an AI-generated video and now you have to argue with someone in the comments for the next hour about water usage, do you think you should have posted that AI generated video?
00:52:32.000 --> 00:52:32.159
Right.
00:52:32.400 --> 00:52:32.719
No.
00:52:33.599 --> 00:52:41.440
Use that AI to help you create a content calendar to tell you what kind of video you should create, and then just go make a video.
00:52:41.840 --> 00:52:46.000
Because it's yes, it can do and and and also in in different industries, right?
00:52:46.079 --> 00:52:59.760
It has definitely such value and use case uh uh there's so many of them I can't even think of them, that most of the time they're not like I don't want to say consumer-facing, because they're not like Alpha Fold, right?
00:52:59.840 --> 00:53:11.119
Like it's the deep mind created and I think it's I don't even know if you would call it an algorithm, I think, where in certain you know, diseases proteins fold this way, that way, whatever.
00:53:11.280 --> 00:53:14.079
They basically solved, because it used to be crystallography, right?
00:53:14.239 --> 00:53:23.199
Remember where like you had to go through this very, very difficult, very labor-intensive, expensive process of trying to figure out, I guess, how the protein is shaped or whatever.
00:53:23.280 --> 00:53:33.599
And then like again, I'm I'm not a science person, but the point is that they basically built this model where they've like all the proteins in the ways that they folded have been solved.
00:53:34.000 --> 00:53:34.559
Like we did that.
00:53:34.800 --> 00:53:35.199
That's crazy.
00:53:35.440 --> 00:53:41.599
And I'm like, uh that would be a pretty good use of artificial intelligence in that way, right?
00:53:41.760 --> 00:53:49.840
Um, so for me, I do think that most of the things that it's great at, for example, it's like aggregating information and finding things and pulling things up.
00:53:49.920 --> 00:53:56.159
There's again a really great use case for we're all moving so quickly, we're all doing more with less.
00:53:56.320 --> 00:54:11.360
So if it can, you know, serve as a companion for people to be able to do stuff that they can't do during the amount of time that they're asked to do something, but it shouldn't be outsourced your critical thinking, because no, it shouldn't outsource your writing emails.
00:54:11.679 --> 00:54:12.239
What?
00:54:12.719 --> 00:54:12.960
Right.
00:54:13.119 --> 00:54:13.760
Because what?
00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:15.679
And here's what I here's what I say.
00:54:16.239 --> 00:54:29.679
When you meet that that individual in person, when you run into them at an event, they're going to know right away if Kevin Shook actually wrote that email because of the way I talk.
00:54:30.000 --> 00:54:33.679
I'm not like, I'm not like, good day, sir, M-dash, M-dash.
00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:34.559
Right.
00:54:35.039 --> 00:54:37.039
I hope this email finds you well, M-dash, M-dash.
00:54:37.280 --> 00:54:37.440
Totally.
00:54:37.519 --> 00:54:46.480
As a and here's the thing, and and like the long game of it for me as a you know, person who's interested in project management, delivery, operations, all the things, leadership management.
00:54:46.800 --> 00:54:56.400
If you are removing all of the opportunity for the people who are lower in the organization to be able to learn the things, right?
00:54:56.559 --> 00:55:06.320
Don't without pressing the who is going to lead next if you are taking those opportunities and the real meat, like every mistake I've ever made is like everyone's learning.
00:55:06.480 --> 00:55:07.920
Like that's how you do stuff.
00:55:08.159 --> 00:55:08.960
You have to get into it.
00:55:09.039 --> 00:55:11.119
You have to know there, like I said, there's no cheat code for that.
00:55:11.360 --> 00:55:12.159
You have to be a practitioner.
00:55:12.480 --> 00:55:23.119
Of course, because uh if you're looking honestly, like, uh, well, if I fire these three project managers and we just get this piece of software, and okay, but then what?
00:55:23.760 --> 00:55:24.400
Then what?
00:55:24.639 --> 00:55:25.920
Because also people forget.
00:55:26.079 --> 00:55:30.960
I mean, listen, again, this is a different podcast, and again, this is just how I feel about it personally.
00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:33.679
This is uh my own personal opinion.
00:55:33.920 --> 00:55:42.480
But if you are so dependent on like the bigger organizations to be able to like, what if that goes down?
00:55:42.639 --> 00:55:45.119
Like you will not know how to do anything.
00:55:45.519 --> 00:55:46.400
We're not guaranteed the internet.
00:55:46.639 --> 00:55:50.719
Well, and it's like it's it's literally forced dependence on them forever.
00:55:51.039 --> 00:56:12.239
It's like because that's how you are learning, like absolute like the walled garden that should be the IP of your organization and to be able to develop the operating principles, develop a way of doing business, and let that be the way that you do things, and then you teach that to the people that that becomes good customer service, that becomes good delivery, that becomes good managers, good training, all of it.
00:56:12.400 --> 00:56:18.480
There's no there's no model, there's no uh output that you can get in place of that.
00:56:18.559 --> 00:56:20.639
And if you are, good luck.
00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:22.400
Talk to me in five years.
00:56:22.559 --> 00:56:23.119
Good luck.
00:56:23.599 --> 00:56:24.719
Because right?
00:56:24.800 --> 00:56:36.159
And and kids out of school, and like I said, and I've been long saying this, that people honestly, I've had it also with all the knowledge work and all the idiot uh management jobs up and down the organization.
00:56:36.480 --> 00:56:39.679
Everyone's like, Well, I'm gonna go into the trades, and I'm like, you should.
00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:40.400
Oh yeah.
00:56:40.639 --> 00:56:40.960
You should.
00:56:41.199 --> 00:56:41.840
Evidently.
00:56:42.239 --> 00:56:54.960
I have such a uh a reverence for um people craftsmen, and I think it's a thing that needs to come back, and it is coming back for a good reason, and not just because, you know, for the monetary part of it, because we don't know how to do anything anymore.
00:56:55.599 --> 00:56:58.960
You know, and work with your hands, figure it out, understand it, right?
00:56:59.280 --> 00:57:18.159
So I think I will say I have put some stuff into AI and I've I don't use Chat GPT again, full disclosure, but um there's a lot of information and whether or not you can go through that information and then check your sources because you should, because they're wrong a lot of the time.
00:57:18.320 --> 00:57:29.920
Um but it is a pretty damn good start to get to something like I could throw a dart, it'll get me close to like when I do research, it'll give me an outline or something, something that I at least can go on.
00:57:30.079 --> 00:57:33.360
It is a good learning tool, just like the internet, just like you know.
00:57:33.519 --> 00:57:37.280
Um so there's an incredible way that I think we just have to.
00:57:38.079 --> 00:57:39.519
But you said it tool.
00:57:39.760 --> 00:57:40.320
A tool.
00:57:40.559 --> 00:57:41.679
Third bumper sticker.
00:57:42.000 --> 00:57:42.159
Yeah.
00:57:42.480 --> 00:57:44.159
Now that you live in Indiana.
00:57:44.400 --> 00:57:44.559
Yep.
00:57:44.800 --> 00:57:45.920
I love Pizza King.
00:57:46.239 --> 00:57:47.519
I have that bumper sticker, actually.
00:57:47.599 --> 00:57:48.239
I took it from it.
00:57:48.400 --> 00:57:48.719
Did you?
00:57:48.880 --> 00:57:51.280
I swear to God, it was on my it's on my refrigerator.
00:57:52.079 --> 00:57:53.039
I'm on a check.
00:57:53.280 --> 00:57:53.599
Yep.
00:57:53.760 --> 00:57:55.519
I'm gonna do a surprise audit of your kids.
00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:56.239
Totally.
00:57:56.320 --> 00:57:56.800
Yep.
00:57:57.039 --> 00:57:57.280
Yep.
00:57:57.519 --> 00:57:58.159
Do you really?
00:57:58.400 --> 00:58:02.320
Yeah, because I I was it was like literally, I and actually I have a funny story about Pizza King.
00:58:02.559 --> 00:58:03.440
You're baptized then.
00:58:03.599 --> 00:58:04.719
You are a Hoosier.
00:58:05.360 --> 00:58:13.199
So I have a um this is a j this is a joke that um has gone on and it's taken on a life of its own.
00:58:13.360 --> 00:58:21.119
So many, many years ago when my wife and I first started dating this 10 years ago, um, I sometimes I'm like, I move very quickly when I do things.
00:58:21.280 --> 00:58:24.079
And most of the time, like I said, it's within pretty good accuracy of the.
00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:25.679
See if it works, if it works, let's keep going.
00:58:25.760 --> 00:58:26.960
If it doesn't work, let's go to something else.
00:58:27.360 --> 00:58:33.039
And I just I'm like, I'm like, let's go, you know, and um not like the move fast break things, Mark Zuckerberg way of it all.
00:58:33.199 --> 00:58:34.800
That's not necessarily what I mean.
00:58:34.960 --> 00:58:40.320
However, sometimes like, and you know, with things, especially with myself, it's like the cobbler with no shoes.
00:58:40.480 --> 00:58:46.800
I wouldn't probably I would never in a million trillion years probably do things that for a client that I just end up doing for myself.
00:58:46.960 --> 00:58:47.840
Case in point.
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:51.599
I needed a rug for my apartment at the time, and I was like, oh, I just ordered a rug.
00:58:51.760 --> 00:58:54.159
And somehow I ordered this rug.
00:58:54.239 --> 00:58:55.599
It was for a living room.
00:58:55.840 --> 00:59:01.119
And it was like those things that now you see like the memes, like it was like from T Moon because it was like this big.
00:59:01.840 --> 00:59:05.119
It was literally, it was like a bath mat for your hamster cage.
00:59:05.440 --> 00:59:06.079
Right, totally.
00:59:06.239 --> 00:59:09.039
So from that point on, and my wife is the exact opposite.
00:59:09.199 --> 00:59:12.239
She will do like you know, wire cutter and all the reviews.
00:59:12.320 --> 00:59:20.800
It's like if she's buying like a microwave oven, it's like it's like a master's thesis analysis of like all the microwaves that have ever been made, and like why you would buy this microwave.
00:59:21.280 --> 00:59:24.719
And like she would sometimes order all the microwaves and then just test all the microwaves.
00:59:24.880 --> 00:59:28.159
So that's why we're made for each other because we're exactly opposite.
00:59:28.400 --> 00:59:32.239
So this ongoing joke of like basically on the order, she's like, like the rug?
00:59:32.400 --> 00:59:33.039
Like like soap.
00:59:33.280 --> 00:59:33.679
Like the rug.
00:59:33.840 --> 00:59:34.079
Right.
00:59:34.159 --> 00:59:35.119
So it's a thing.
00:59:35.280 --> 00:59:36.400
It has gone on and on.
00:59:36.480 --> 00:59:39.599
So fast forward to our first week in Indiana.
00:59:40.079 --> 00:59:41.840
Of course, we're so exhausted we can't cook.
00:59:42.000 --> 00:59:43.519
So I'm like, oh pizza king.
00:59:43.840 --> 00:59:47.599
So I go in and she's with the dog, and I'm like, I'll go in, I'll order it.
00:59:48.239 --> 00:59:49.440
I order the pizza.
00:59:51.039 --> 00:59:52.159
They're like, here's a pizza.
00:59:54.800 --> 00:59:57.920
I didn't even like the I ordered the what, 12, whatever it was.
00:59:58.159 --> 00:59:58.880
You didn't look at it.
00:59:59.039 --> 00:59:59.840
Well, I mean, I don't know.
00:59:59.920 --> 01:00:04.880
It was like the small, and like like to me in New York, like small is like it could feed a uh a 50 people, right?
01:00:05.039 --> 01:00:05.679
Like in New York.
01:00:06.000 --> 01:00:08.639
So for me, I I just didn't, and I was so tired or whatever.
01:00:08.719 --> 01:00:11.679
So I walk out, in my mind, I'm like, the rug.
01:00:12.000 --> 01:00:14.000
And like she's gonna she's gonna bring up the rug.
01:00:14.239 --> 01:00:15.679
She's gonna bring up the rug.
01:00:16.559 --> 01:00:17.360
And don't you know?
01:00:17.519 --> 01:00:18.320
I mean, rightly so.
01:00:18.400 --> 01:00:21.119
I deserved it, but literally I came out, we were so hungry.
01:00:21.280 --> 01:00:25.599
We had like we had been driving, I think it was like the literally the day that we got here.
01:00:26.079 --> 01:00:33.199
We were so hungry, and I walk out with this pizza, and I was like, Did she say the rug?
01:00:33.440 --> 01:00:34.159
She said the rug.
01:00:34.480 --> 01:00:34.960
That's awesome.
01:00:35.280 --> 01:00:41.760
Yeah, so I mean, but other than that experience, so now I know better with the Pizza King, but um I love the squares.
01:00:42.000 --> 01:00:42.559
I'm a fan.
01:00:42.960 --> 01:00:44.800
Have you had um Mercurios?
01:00:45.760 --> 01:00:46.400
I have.
01:00:47.599 --> 01:00:50.239
Um you can get like a bowl of toppings.
01:00:50.480 --> 01:00:52.960
Like so you can get all the good stuff in a bowl.
01:00:53.280 --> 01:00:56.079
Yeah, and it's like eight bucks, nine bucks.
01:00:56.559 --> 01:00:57.599
Like to get like a salad.
01:00:58.159 --> 01:01:03.760
Italian no, like cheese, pepperoni, italian sauce, like whatever pizza you would order.
01:01:04.000 --> 01:01:04.239
Uh-huh.
01:01:04.320 --> 01:01:04.800
But in a bowl.
01:01:09.119 --> 01:01:09.280
Yeah.
01:01:09.519 --> 01:01:09.920
Very good.
01:01:10.400 --> 01:01:11.440
That's another hidden change.
01:01:12.159 --> 01:01:15.519
And so so how would you wrapping it all together?
01:01:15.599 --> 01:01:25.360
And again, like I what interested me, and like I said, the reason you and I headed off so well, I think that there's there's a f there's people, right, that do things a certain way, right?
01:01:25.599 --> 01:01:38.639
I think there's a way of of doing and a way of being where it's pretty black and white in some ways, and then everything else, obviously, there's like the gray pretty much over is overarching it all.
01:01:38.800 --> 01:01:44.719
But I think that the black and white of it is very simple in that when you are working with a client, right?
01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:50.000
To me, again, that is the first and the foremost of it all.
01:01:50.559 --> 01:02:01.679
And that's how the business of mine also even back in the day uh evolved, in that it's not like I'm selling a list of services where like people would sort of pick off a menu in that way.
01:02:01.760 --> 01:02:04.079
They would call me because they trusted me.
01:02:04.719 --> 01:02:06.000
Oh, can you help me with that?
01:02:06.400 --> 01:02:07.920
Oh, that's the only way I get business.
01:02:08.320 --> 01:02:08.880
So that's what I mean.
01:02:09.920 --> 01:02:11.280
For some wild reason they trust me.
01:02:11.599 --> 01:02:11.840
Well, right.
01:02:11.920 --> 01:02:21.440
And I think right, it's so if you were to hire someone else, even if you weren't the practitioner or the expert in it, like you're a lot better options.
01:02:21.760 --> 01:02:23.360
But you're also managing the relationships.
01:02:23.519 --> 01:02:42.079
So even again, I think that that's the uh the value, right, of building these types of relationships, and that you know, if you're not the best, like let's just say, for example, like um, you know, coder, if you were doing something for someone, you know, you could get someone to help you with that, but you would then obviously still own and very much have the I'm responsible for the outcome.
01:02:42.559 --> 01:02:43.119
Correct.
01:02:43.360 --> 01:02:49.679
So I think, you know, in doing so, I think one of the I think that is my that's my third bumper sticker.
01:02:49.840 --> 01:02:53.440
Um in to me, right?
01:02:54.800 --> 01:02:56.639
I'm I'm I'm the goal person.
01:02:56.800 --> 01:03:01.039
Like what tell me what it is that you want to get at, right?
01:03:01.199 --> 01:03:03.039
Just that's where I live.
01:03:03.360 --> 01:03:10.880
And like I said, then we have to go all the way back to if there's something in the way of that, because there might not be, right?
01:03:10.960 --> 01:03:20.960
But like I said, so I think similar to you, if the meat of your job is trying to get through the BS in order to get to the goal, that's where the problem is, right?
01:03:21.039 --> 01:03:26.800
It's not just as simple as like, can you make this video for me or can you print this project for me?
01:03:27.119 --> 01:03:33.920
If I'm out of all of the obstacles and all the hoops that I'm jumping through, that becomes what actually my service is to you.
01:03:34.400 --> 01:03:37.199
That's that's to me, that's where the problem is.
01:03:37.440 --> 01:03:49.360
So the bumper sticker of that and how I would say it is whether or not and how the relationship that you have with that client that that's gonna be the success of it.
01:03:49.440 --> 01:03:53.920
Because either they're gonna be into you helping fix that, because that's the only way you're gonna deliver your product, right?
01:03:54.000 --> 01:03:59.280
Is if you get to the meat of that and you figure out what else is going on in order to fix the thing that you're trying to deliver.
01:03:59.599 --> 01:04:01.599
So to me, that's that's where it separates.
01:04:01.840 --> 01:04:03.280
It literally is a fork in the road.
01:04:03.360 --> 01:04:06.000
It's like you have those types of clients and then you have those types of clients.
01:04:06.239 --> 01:04:20.400
Because if the business that we're doing is to just get to the thing where I have to fight so hard to just get what I need to do what you ask me to do, that is very different from like you successfully producing someone's podcast that all that garbage just isn't involved.
01:04:20.639 --> 01:04:24.159
To me, those are two completely binary systems of being.
01:04:24.480 --> 01:04:32.079
And the relationship that you have with the client, I don't know what kind of relationship, if they're resistant to it's available on that other side.
01:04:32.159 --> 01:04:34.559
So like it becomes a one-way street to me.
01:04:34.719 --> 01:04:42.159
Those are the clients that are, I think, the best long-term partners that are able to see themselves in some of the problem.
01:04:43.119 --> 01:04:50.400
But if you're not looking to rub anyone's nose in it and you and and again, like I said, it's not about ego, it's not about any of that.
01:04:50.559 --> 01:04:55.599
If you're truly, genuinely like, just let me help you, you know, and they're they're into that.
01:04:56.000 --> 01:05:04.800
And and you know, I think you can you can develop long-term like legacy type clients with that because you can grow with them.
01:05:05.039 --> 01:05:08.960
You can do different things because they might ask you because they trust you to do different things.
01:05:09.360 --> 01:05:10.559
That's how you'll grow the business.
01:05:10.960 --> 01:05:12.239
It happens every time.
01:05:12.719 --> 01:05:14.239
Absolutely pivots every time.
01:05:14.480 --> 01:05:17.199
Yeah, so so that's it.
01:05:18.480 --> 01:05:20.800
So are you hungry?
01:05:22.079 --> 01:05:22.559
Yes.
01:05:22.880 --> 01:05:24.079
So thank you for having me on.
01:05:24.159 --> 01:05:24.639
This was great.
01:05:24.960 --> 01:05:25.599
Yeah, this is cool.
01:05:25.760 --> 01:05:27.599
Um welcome, welcome to the Midwest.
01:05:27.760 --> 01:05:30.239
Welcome to the lot to do.
01:05:30.320 --> 01:05:31.199
I'm excited though.
01:05:31.440 --> 01:05:32.159
I think that's it.
01:05:32.239 --> 01:05:44.159
I think you know, I needed my time to distance myself, like I said, from that part of how I was offering kind of like my services, what I want to do.
01:05:44.559 --> 01:05:52.800
You know, 'cause I'd rather I don't know, I'd rather kind of maybe help build things rather than like always just kind of coming in in an emergency situation necessarily.
01:05:52.960 --> 01:05:53.519
I mean I can't.
01:05:53.760 --> 01:05:54.480
Prevent emergency.
01:05:54.800 --> 01:05:55.119
Kind of.
01:05:55.199 --> 01:05:59.599
I'd rather just be like, Hey, listen, like maybe you shouldn't need that other part of the of the thing.
01:06:00.159 --> 01:06:06.960
You know, so I think to me it it it exists a little bit more naturally and and it's more fun, I think.
01:06:07.199 --> 01:06:07.360
You know.
01:06:07.599 --> 01:06:10.239
I mean solving problems is fun also could be the outcome.
01:06:10.400 --> 01:06:12.880
But if I think you can prevent it, have a strong foundation.
01:06:13.519 --> 01:06:19.599
If the client doesn't learn from it and like they just call you in at the end stage every time, it's like really you know, that part's less fun.
01:06:20.000 --> 01:06:28.559
So, you know, I think you and I would share that that's definitely true, is that it's just more fun to, you know, work with people that are cool and that you know you can help them.
01:06:29.039 --> 01:06:31.280
And that's what I'm into.
01:06:31.440 --> 01:06:36.719
So uh we're digging it so far and uh you know one day at a time.
01:06:37.440 --> 01:06:39.039
And you got to see your first mummies game?
01:06:39.280 --> 01:06:39.599
I did.
01:06:39.679 --> 01:06:48.079
I did you know, it's honestly I I'm I'm I'm ashamed to say that I had such plans to go to so many more, so hopefully the season's not over yet.
01:06:48.320 --> 01:06:50.000
But we've been so busy with the house.
01:06:50.079 --> 01:06:52.320
Uh like by the end of the day, I'm like spent.
01:06:52.880 --> 01:06:57.840
Well, and I think there's four games for the next four days.
01:06:58.000 --> 01:06:59.519
I think they were on a six.
01:06:59.760 --> 01:07:00.159
Yeah.
01:07:00.559 --> 01:07:02.639
Um but we have weather on the radar.
01:07:03.039 --> 01:07:05.840
I can hear it from my backyard, so every time I'm like, oh god, I should be there.
01:07:06.079 --> 01:07:06.800
I should be there.
01:07:07.119 --> 01:07:09.119
So I have to I have to get on it.
01:07:09.440 --> 01:07:10.079
It's been cool.
01:07:10.960 --> 01:07:11.440
I mean it's great.
01:07:11.599 --> 01:07:11.920
I love it.
01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:13.119
I mean, I absolutely love it.
01:07:13.360 --> 01:07:14.880
They got a few home runs in this year.
01:07:15.440 --> 01:07:16.400
Over the fence home runs.
01:07:16.639 --> 01:07:17.280
Oh yeah.
01:07:17.519 --> 01:07:17.920
Yeah.
01:07:18.000 --> 01:07:18.960
I'm into it.
01:07:19.280 --> 01:07:19.920
Yeah.
01:07:20.639 --> 01:07:22.880
Um no, thanks for coming up here.
01:07:23.119 --> 01:07:24.079
We'll do more of this.
01:07:24.320 --> 01:07:26.079
Hopefully, Richmond's good with you.
01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:26.480
Yeah.
01:07:26.719 --> 01:07:28.159
They're nice to you, they're kind to you.
01:07:28.400 --> 01:07:30.000
Everyone's everyone's been great so far.
01:07:30.320 --> 01:07:33.119
Some opportunity, a lot going on.
01:07:33.360 --> 01:07:34.079
So I know.
01:07:34.159 --> 01:07:35.199
I mean, that's the other thing.
01:07:35.280 --> 01:07:36.400
I mean, who knew?
01:07:36.960 --> 01:07:47.840
I did not know, again, before we moved here, that all this was going on with you know, investment in the in the downtown and just the whole sort of philosophy of of all of that.
01:07:47.920 --> 01:07:49.280
And you know, it's it's great.
01:07:49.679 --> 01:07:51.760
That's gonna be a whole new city in two years.
01:07:52.079 --> 01:07:58.239
I mean, to me, it's like honestly, I mean, you know, not to sound corny or anything, but I think it's honestly like a once-in-a-generation opportunity to make a difference.
01:07:58.559 --> 01:07:59.679
Oh, once in a lifetime.
01:07:59.920 --> 01:08:00.239
Yeah.
01:08:00.559 --> 01:08:02.880
Um, this right here will be a bedroom.
01:08:03.119 --> 01:08:03.360
Yep.
01:08:03.679 --> 01:08:06.559
I mean, I mean, these windows are out of control.
01:08:06.639 --> 01:08:14.800
I mean, the architecture, the fact that even though obviously it's gone through different phases of of sort of, you know, um economic downturn, all the things.
01:08:15.039 --> 01:08:21.199
The one thing I have to say uh is that for the most part, even just in Richmond, the architecture is still here.
01:08:21.359 --> 01:08:23.359
It's been repurposed that they have to roll back.
01:08:23.520 --> 01:08:38.960
But that being said, isn't it funny how everything evolves because literally the cheese grater uh on the Harris building, there were pictures from the newspaper many, many, many years ago when they covered that up and they were so proud of that.
01:08:39.199 --> 01:08:39.520
I know.
01:08:39.840 --> 01:08:42.239
And now we have pictures of tearing it off.
01:08:42.640 --> 01:08:49.279
Well, it was so it was so dated, but you could imagine like at the time that it was done, it was probably so cool and so innovative.
01:08:49.439 --> 01:08:59.439
Um, isn't funny, as a matter of fact, I'm just looking at this that we should do some live fact-checking before I go, because I was doing research about Richmond before I came here, way before I met you.
01:08:59.680 --> 01:09:01.039
Just whatever.
01:09:01.279 --> 01:09:12.720
Um and there's a lot of really amazing things that have been that have happened here for for like, I don't want to say a small town because it's not, but not a lot of people have heard of it.
01:09:12.880 --> 01:09:15.199
I mean that outside of you know this part of the country.
01:09:15.439 --> 01:09:18.000
Um Francis Jenkins.
01:09:19.119 --> 01:09:23.680
First ever public motion picture screening building in 1894, right?
01:09:24.079 --> 01:09:25.119
It's one of ours right there.
01:09:25.279 --> 01:09:25.520
Yep.
01:09:25.840 --> 01:09:30.159
Um the first school bus was invented here, if I'm not mistaken, in 1914.
01:09:30.800 --> 01:09:35.760
Um first compact car uh by Crosley, actually.
01:09:35.840 --> 01:09:37.199
Also, I have a record player by the way.
01:09:37.439 --> 01:09:38.319
1939.
01:09:38.800 --> 01:09:45.279
Um going back a little bit, 1835, Solomon Dickinson invented and patented the cooking stove.
01:09:47.279 --> 01:09:47.680
Yep.
01:09:48.079 --> 01:09:50.079
Um let's see, whatever.
01:09:50.319 --> 01:09:54.960
Um obviously, this is most people know this one, 1927, and the anniversary is coming up.
01:09:55.119 --> 01:09:58.640
Hoagie Garmichael recorded Stardust at Jeanette Records, right?
01:09:59.199 --> 01:10:03.600
The very first public high school orchestra is in Richmond, Indiana, 1900.
01:10:04.319 --> 01:10:10.800
Um and if there's if this is still being given out, I don't know.
01:10:10.960 --> 01:10:13.840
But apparently there was a Nobel Prize of Citizenship.
01:10:14.319 --> 01:10:19.119
And Richmond's won twice in 1987 and 2009.
01:10:21.039 --> 01:10:21.520
Yeah.
01:10:22.399 --> 01:10:27.600
And I think there were more that I didn't write down here, but there's crazy?
01:10:28.159 --> 01:10:29.680
It's a lot of stuff for a small town.
01:10:30.000 --> 01:10:32.640
It's the Rose Cap Rose capital of US, the Rose City.
01:10:32.720 --> 01:10:33.680
That's why I used to call it that.
01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:42.239
The ice skates are made here for the uh Oh when it's I don't know.
01:10:42.319 --> 01:10:43.600
I don't know the proper what it's called.
01:10:44.000 --> 01:10:52.880
Yeah, and in 1884, um I don't know how to pronounce his first name, but last name's Henley, invited the modern ball bearing wheel on for the roller skate.
01:10:53.199 --> 01:10:59.439
And the first one sold to Wilbur Wright of the Wright brothers, who later opened a bicycle shop because I think maybe they were from here.
01:10:59.520 --> 01:11:02.800
They went to high school here, but then moved to, I guess, Dayton or whatever, Ohio.
01:11:03.279 --> 01:11:05.039
That's part of the flying mummies.
01:11:05.199 --> 01:11:06.640
That's the flying part of the mummies.
01:11:06.960 --> 01:11:08.560
I mean, that's a lot of stuff.
01:11:08.800 --> 01:11:09.600
And we have two mommies.
01:11:09.840 --> 01:11:11.279
For a small town, don't you think?
01:11:12.239 --> 01:11:13.600
I was shocked.
01:11:14.319 --> 01:11:14.800
And right.
01:11:15.279 --> 01:11:17.359
2026 Jack moves here from New York.
01:11:17.680 --> 01:11:17.760
Right.
01:11:17.840 --> 01:11:18.960
That would be on the list.
01:11:23.119 --> 01:11:24.800
But I mean, I think that's pretty cool.
01:11:24.880 --> 01:11:25.119
I don't know.
01:11:25.199 --> 01:11:28.239
I'm a history nerd, so I think these things are important to me.
01:11:28.399 --> 01:11:29.680
I'm like super excited about it.
01:11:29.840 --> 01:11:33.760
And I'm like, literally, I should work for the tourism board because I'm like telling people I'm like, did you know?
01:11:33.920 --> 01:11:35.359
Like an all-time regime show.
01:11:35.600 --> 01:11:36.479
Did you know?
01:11:36.800 --> 01:11:37.199
Right?
01:11:37.359 --> 01:11:38.319
That's huge.
01:11:38.800 --> 01:11:40.319
We can turn this black and white.
01:11:40.720 --> 01:11:41.439
I think we should.
01:11:41.600 --> 01:11:44.159
I'll come up with a little suit on, a little hat.
01:11:44.720 --> 01:11:46.560
Um well, yeah.
01:11:46.720 --> 01:11:48.560
So I I think we could go on and on for days.
01:11:48.720 --> 01:11:53.600
So hopefully, hopefully I get invited back and we can keep talking.
01:11:53.840 --> 01:11:55.680
And then I'll talk to my boss.
01:11:56.159 --> 01:11:57.119
I'll talk to my boss.
01:11:57.439 --> 01:12:01.119
You talk to the powers that you talk to leadership, and then you get back to me.
01:12:02.319 --> 01:12:03.359
Three to five business days.
01:12:03.680 --> 01:12:04.479
Three to five business days.
01:12:04.800 --> 01:12:05.279
You'll have an answer.
01:12:05.439 --> 01:12:06.640
You'll have an answer.
01:12:07.039 --> 01:12:07.680
All right, oh, cool.
01:12:07.760 --> 01:12:07.920
Thank you.
01:12:08.399 --> 01:12:08.800
Appreciate you.
01:12:08.960 --> 01:12:09.279
This was great.
01:12:09.439 --> 01:12:11.359
Oh, also, too, just to know, just to round up the thing.
01:12:11.439 --> 01:12:13.760
The last time I was here, uh you were bit by a snake.
01:12:13.840 --> 01:12:15.039
So just gonna want to leave it on that.
01:12:15.600 --> 01:12:20.319
You know and that's how I knew that I wanted to come on this show because your reaction was exactly this.
01:12:20.479 --> 01:12:22.640
Well, I think I think he's biting me right now.
01:12:22.720 --> 01:12:23.680
It was a she, right?
01:12:23.840 --> 01:12:25.199
I think she's biting me right now.
01:12:25.359 --> 01:12:26.000
That was it.
01:12:26.159 --> 01:12:27.279
And in fact, she was.
01:12:27.520 --> 01:12:28.000
She was.
01:12:28.720 --> 01:12:30.640
I thought about and I was like, I love this guy.
01:12:30.720 --> 01:12:31.920
I'm done for coming on this show.
01:12:32.079 --> 01:12:34.079
Like that's correct with Kevin Chuck.