Life Between Coasts S3 E5: The Stories We Carry

WEBVTT
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Hi there.
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Welcome to Life Between Coasts, the podcast where we dive into our personal journeys connected through synchronicity.
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So grab your coffee, light a candle, and let's begin.
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I'm your host, Leah, and we're glad you're here.
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Today we're sitting down with Scott.
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Welcome, Scott.
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How are you today?
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I'm doing well.
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Thanks for having me, Leah.
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Excellent.
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Thank you for joining us.
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So we get the pleasured opportunity of learning all about you today.
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So, Scott, where do you want to begin?
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Well, um, I'm a Ann Arbor transplant.
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I've been here 14 years.
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Okay.
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Uh, though I also went to school here and worked in Detroit, you know, 40 years ago.
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Okay.
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Um, but I like the Midwest.
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So here I am.
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Nice.
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Now where did now where did you transplant from?
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I grew up in New Jersey.
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Okay.
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So uh went to college in Philadelphia, came out to Michigan for grad school.
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Okay.
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And so at U of M you were at grad school?
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U of M.
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And what was your um what was your degree in?
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I got an MBA.
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Okay.
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And what were you what was your profession?
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What what did you do?
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Mostly marketing.
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I actually, so in undergrad, I I did this really quantitative kind of economics.
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Okay.
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And I I remember I'm a senior and I asked this guy, Mike, who was a year ahead of me, who had come back for a weekend.
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I said, Well, what do you do, you know, for work?
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And he and he said, you know, term papers, I write one a month and my office is in the basement.
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Uh, you know, he was working for Battel and he was getting projects.
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And and I realized I hadn't really ever thought about what I would what what work might look like.
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Right.
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Um, I just sort of majored in something I found fun.
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Right.
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Well, and I think a lot of people do that because they don't realize or or think about what I'm how is that going to benefit me in the end.
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Yeah.
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And and so that's a question you should ask yourself.
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But it was tricky because I was so ready to get out of college.
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I I had almost taken a year off because I wanted to go just do something else.
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Right.
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And and I I thought about it.
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It was clear that, well, if you don't want to write term papers in the basement, uh, you probably have to go to grad school.
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And this is my I I I was 21, and my 21-year-old logic of going to business school instead of law school was that it was only two years.
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Okay.
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As opposed to three.
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Right.
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Just one year different.
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So that's why I went to business school.
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And um Michigan had actually done an event in Philadelphia where I was in college.
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Okay.
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And I was talking to the dean of students, and he's like, You're exactly the kind of person we want.
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Apply.
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So I did and I got in.
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I had never been to Michigan in my life.
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Okay.
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I I flew out to to look at Ann Arbor.
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Right.
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And and rent an apartment for the fall.
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And uh I had a great two years.
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I really loved Michigan.
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Oh, that's beautiful.
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Oh, yeah.
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Um, and then what was surprising, because that was sort of an auto depression year, was that I got a job in Detroit.
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I I worked for the Stroh Brewery.
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Okay.
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And I actually started in corporate planning, which was, you know, more of this modeling stuff.
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Um, and we did some deals uh buying other breweries.
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And and I got involved in un sort of analyzing markets and marketing for the acquisitions.
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Right.
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And I decided that the marketing people had a lot more fun.
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And so I switched into marketing.
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And that's what my career was mostly.
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Okay.
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Based on marketing.
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I did other things.
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I ran sales, right?
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Uh ran a whole company, but uh consumer products mostly, some industrial products, uh mostly products where we were either communicating an image or a technical thing that you had to explain very carefully, but also quickly.
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Right.
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Uh that's what I know how to do.
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Good.
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No, and that's um it's a gift to be able to do that to get it down to just a few words because you know, we uh I think I think everybody is guilty of the word salad thing every yeah, it can take months to figure out how you want to say something uh that's succinct but also clear.
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Right.
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Well, because tone, you know, if you use the wrong word or the wrong way the words are laid out, you know, it it could mean uh, you know, it could come across completely different.
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I actually came up with ways to advertise product like years after I was no longer with the product, right?
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Wait, I should have used this.
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I just you know, it's it's I always go back to the sign that's it um uh along most roadways in uh in residential neighborhoods that indicate to tell drivers to slow down.
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And then and the way that they word it, it says slow children playing instead of you know, slow, they just need a comma, you know, a pause, slow children playing.
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And it's just I laugh and I every time I see that sign because it's like where are the slow children?
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I'll you know, I can run them over, you know.
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I don't know.
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I won't, but I'm just joking.
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That's why they're warning you.
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Yes, and I'm moving quick.
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Yes.
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But um, but yeah, so if you use the wrong word or forget that comma or or the tone is inappropriate, or or if it's translated, I mean because you we're a global market.
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So I mean, how many how did that challenge you as well?
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Because when you're not only just trying to figure out something to use in your backyard, but if you're you know advertising globally, how is those how are those words going to translate?
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And are they going to, you know, offend some other country because you chose the wrong word that day?
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Yeah, that can be a challenge.
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So for me, other than Canada and Puerto Rico, we usually turned that over to somebody else.
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Okay.
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You know, like it's your problem now.
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Okay.
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That's a good one.
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That's a good one.
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So now, um, so the work, so after you you received your MBA from Michigan, and now you're back in New Jersey at that point?
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Uh no, I never went back to because I got the job in Detroit.
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So you stayed at Detroit.
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Yeah, for like another three and a half years.
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Okay.
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And then I got hired by folks out in Los Angeles.
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That's where it was.
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Okay.
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So that got me into the pet food world.
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Uh, first at Heinz Pet Products and then at California Home Brands.
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Okay.
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Um, and then Heinz Pet Products bought California Home Brands, and I'd already worked for Heinz once, and that was enough.
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Right.
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Um, and so I I then I moved east uh to a company called Oxo, which is this big Dutch chemical conglomerate, and I worked in their salt division, which is literally salt.
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I mean, we sold table salt, rock salt.
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Oh, yeah, no, they do the um beef bullion cubes and things like that in the Canadian, or isn't it a Canadian brand or something?
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Um or it was well OXO.
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Well, first off, OXO doesn't isn't in the salt business anymore.
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Right.
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The funny thing about every company I worked with for is it no longer exists in the form I worked for it in.
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Okay.
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So like OXO still exists, but the salt division they sold to Cargill.
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Okay.
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So all my former, you know, co-workers.
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Anyone that you know by Cargill.
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Um, you know, because they had their own thing.
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But uh they uh you know, they had their own view of things.
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So so the different companies I've worked for, Heinz Pet Products is uh has been sold like four times.
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It's not part of it's not called Heinz Pet Products anymore.
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Right.
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Um California Home Brands, which I loved as a place to work, you know, ended up selling the Heinz.
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Uh so yeah, I mean it's the company I worked for here when I moved back to Michigan, uh Lighthouse Electronics Protection, they got bought.
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So that's just what happens in the corporate war.
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Yeah, it's just yeah, constant purchasing and mergers.
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And and you see it in all facets of business.
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And I'm guilty of it too, because the company that I started in Colorado, I sold my partner and I sold it.
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So um and sometimes you start businesses with the intent to sell them, and sometimes you start businesses for the intent to to basically have secure employment for your entire, you know, that you have control over versus having somebody control, yeah, you know, have control over your paycheck.
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Um, so there's there's a couple different ways to look at that.
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Yeah.
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But so now, so in OXO, so you now you're there um working with this team where um and still doing marketing.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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So uh, and then then I started a pet food company with uh one of my food tech guys from Heinz.
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Okay.
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So we started a pet food company in Colorado.
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He was gonna move to Colorado.
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This is actually a hilarious story.
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Uh so he's living in Long Beach.
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He's gonna, my wife and I will move to Colorado and we're going to this factory in Texas outside of Amarillo, where we're gonna have our products made.
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Okay.
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We never made products ourselves, we always used other factories.
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Right.
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Um, we had a very modern company way before people did that.
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Uh and so we're driving to this factory and he's spending the whole time telling me how he and his uh wife have gotten pregnant and Catelyn wanted, you know, children.
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And he's oh, you know, I'm gonna do this and it's gonna be good.
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But we went to the doctor and it's twins.
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And I for two hours he's telling me about twins, and on two hours back, he's telling me about twins.
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And and we get like through the you know, we fly home and he calls me up Monday morning and goes, maybe it was Tuesday, he goes, it's not twins, it's triplets.
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Oh goodness oh gosh.
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So all his family support was in Long Beach, California.
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So he stayed in Long Beach.
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Uh yes, and so we had a very remote con company.
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I remember at a time we had seven employees in five states.
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Oh wow.
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You know, so we were pretty spread out.
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No, definitely.
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Now, how did you uh so you'd worked obviously at that point you'd worked in the pet division, so you start to be get your expertise about what's there, and then you can see from an insider, but from also from the outside perspective, you can see what's missing, you know, where you know, where the corporate giants just they they can't do because they have to do so much on on a large quantity and and things like that.
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Yeah.
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Um, so what did you when you started your pet business?
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Um it was so pet food business.
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Is it just like home meals or or was it supplies?
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Was it well it got to that, but that's not where it started.
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Right.
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Rich had I had actually tried to start a food bar business first.
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Okay.
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And I I didn't know some things I subsequently learned about how you fund companies because I've been in a Vic company.
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Right.
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And it just all happened.
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You asked for money, they either gave it to you or they didn't.
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Or they said no.
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Uh now I'm trying to find the money on my own.
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And I had worked with a food technology, a slightly different food technology friend, to come up with a meal bar.
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Okay.
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It still is one of the best meal bars I've ever eaten.
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Right.
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And it needed machinery that at the time was not together in one factory.
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Okay.
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So it needed two machines, nobody had combined them because nobody had our idea.
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And so I I could make them, but it was expensive because I had to make the insides of the bar, ship them somewhere, make the outsides.
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Right.
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There went all the profit.
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So I was, but I I had bars, people loved them, and I was trying to fund uh a factory, and I just I wasn't really able to.
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Right.
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Uh I thought I had a deal, and it's you know, some one of the partners wanted to get greedy, and it was like, well, that's not gonna work because it has to work for everybody.
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Right.
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And so um I told my uh eventual partner, I said, I'm gonna kill the food bar business.
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And he said, Well, I have a pet idea, and it was to process, and he patented it to process animal cart rel cartilage to deliver the joint care benefit.
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So the nutrients that are in uh joint care supplements, glucosamine, chondroid and sulfate, right, they're all in cartilage now.
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But the issue is your body doesn't digest cartilage particularly well.
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Right.
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So if you eat a piece of cartilage right now, it'll pass through your system and your body extract literally like two or three percent of those joint care nutrients uh and the rest just goes through your system.
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Right.
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Well, we basically pre-digested it.
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That's what we patented, and so the body was able to absorb uh uh extract like 80%.
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Wow.
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Uh and but we were using animal cartilage, so we decided to focus on the animal health industry.
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Right.
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Uh because they were pet people were very happy or didn't have a problem with using beef cartilage directly.
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Right.
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Whereas in the human market, it's a little trickier.
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Uh so we went into animal health uh with treats.
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Yeah.
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That's how we started.
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And our they were beef-based treats and the whole world changed on us over time.
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Uh it went from uh beef to chicken because of BSE back in the day.
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Uh it we went from being a treat supplier and making treats and selling them to veterinarians to being uh an ingredient supplier to big pet food companies.
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Uh and along the way, our original beef partner had gotten us into the pet food business.
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Okay.
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Because they they they were a startup beef company and and they helped us get into the canned pet food business and into the business for like you know, rawhide chews and stuff like that.
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So in the canned pet food business, we actually didn't do that much beef at the end of the day.
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Our signature product was two chicken thighs and a can.
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So that was nutritionally complete meal for dogs.
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So we added the vitamins and minerals to make it a complete diet, and we cooked it in such a way that the bones just powdered.
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So they were not a risk to the dog.
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Okay.
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So we really and and the line I came up with was sometimes you just can't cook for your dog.
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That was what our product solved.
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Yes.
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And that's yes, yeah, yeah.
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And oh man.
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I um I I joke because um my pup Monty, the the ginger-looking guy there on the table, he um even in the middle dead of winter, minus 20 degrees outside, you know, that girl gets turned on twice a day, once in the morning and once at night, because he demands steak, cheeseburgers, deer, you know, pork.
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He can't eat chicken, he has a little bit of an allergy to it.
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So I used to give him rotisserie chickens, and then he got the allergy.
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And I'm like, there goes my easy meal.
00:16:23.799 --> 00:16:27.719
I do want to say for the audience, you just can't cook chicken thighs.
00:16:27.959 --> 00:16:31.159
No, uh, and feed them to your dog because the bones will shard.
00:16:31.559 --> 00:16:35.719
We had a special process we used that made them soften instead.
00:16:35.879 --> 00:16:36.119
Yeah.
00:16:36.759 --> 00:16:53.079
No, and that's that's important because uh a lot of people don't realize that certain bones can't be fed to dogs, like rib bones, too and bones, any poultry bone, because they are too, and then they do what they splinter, and then they can perforate their intestinal tract, and then then you're looking at big bat bill because they have to do surgery and things like that.
00:16:53.399 --> 00:16:54.439
We found a way around that.
00:16:54.519 --> 00:16:55.000
That's good.
00:16:55.479 --> 00:17:12.440
No, that's well, that that's amazing because that's you know, it's all about the cooking um and and not losing all the nutrients and then adding back everything just because the dog, um a dog preceding, I say dog, but they're my children, of course, um, was Winston, and I used to do the home cooked meals for him as well.
00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:13.400
But he liked vegetables.
00:17:13.640 --> 00:17:16.279
Monty's strictly carnivore, he's like meat only.
00:17:16.519 --> 00:17:19.400
And I say we, but I was not the food technology guy.
00:17:19.480 --> 00:17:23.240
Yeah, I just took these ideas and found the way to get them into the market.
00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:29.960
That's well, that's but you had your strength, your business partner had their strength, and anyone else that you brought in had their strength.
00:17:30.119 --> 00:17:34.119
So without that complete puzzle, then you wouldn't have been able to be successful.
00:17:34.359 --> 00:17:37.079
So this and you and then we sold the business.
00:17:37.159 --> 00:17:37.879
Then you sold the business.
00:17:38.119 --> 00:17:40.519
We got an offer, we were thrilled.
00:17:40.679 --> 00:17:42.919
So well, that's always a great thing.
00:17:43.079 --> 00:17:43.720
So that was that.
00:17:43.799 --> 00:17:45.319
And then what did you do after that?
00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:50.919
Well, then I I took a job with the National Association of Independent Schools.
00:17:51.319 --> 00:18:03.720
So all the schools that are not public schools and also not owned by uh another organization, they had to be an independent 501c3.
00:18:04.039 --> 00:18:04.359
Okay.
00:18:04.599 --> 00:18:10.599
So you could have a Catholic mission as an independent Catholic school, and you could join us.
00:18:10.759 --> 00:18:13.559
But if you were a Catholic parish school, you couldn't.
00:18:13.720 --> 00:18:13.960
Okay.
00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:15.000
That would be the line.
00:18:15.159 --> 00:18:35.399
But it was everything from small uh grade school, preschools to um the highest end uh private prep schools in New England to a lot of uh schools for children that have learning issues.
00:18:35.559 --> 00:18:38.839
They need special programming to really get through the system.
00:18:39.079 --> 00:18:39.319
Right.
00:18:39.639 --> 00:18:43.079
And we provided resources to the schools.
00:18:43.559 --> 00:18:50.599
Um and you know, we had uh issues we were dealing with that we were that they needed a marketing person for.
00:18:51.159 --> 00:19:05.399
I uh we sold the company and I took a job with the National Association of Independent Schools, which is uh a nonprofit that represents all the schools that are independent 501c3s.
00:19:05.879 --> 00:19:10.519
So you can have a Catholic mission, but you can't be owned by the parish.
00:19:10.599 --> 00:19:10.759
Right.
00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:12.200
That was sort of a line.
00:19:12.279 --> 00:19:43.960
And it's it's a very diverse set of schools, everything from local, uh usually not just a pre-K, but you know, pre-K to sixth grade small schools, right, uh up to huge, um well-endowed uh New England prep schools to and then also schools that uh catered to uh students who had learning issues that they needed or benefited from a different kind of track than the the normal school offered them.
00:19:44.119 --> 00:19:45.079
And it was a great job.
00:19:45.159 --> 00:19:52.519
I was their VP of marketing, uh, and then the Economy Club, my little association over the head, uh and they eliminated marketing.
00:19:52.839 --> 00:19:53.159
Okay.
00:19:54.119 --> 00:19:56.519
That's usually one of the first things that that goes.
00:19:56.599 --> 00:20:01.319
They say, well, you know, we'll at least get free advertising because the parents of the students will tell somebody, you know.
00:20:01.480 --> 00:20:17.799
So well, they had some issues that they they had hired me for because um so for instance, if if a kid gets into Harvard, you may think he's pointy headed, but you sort of assume like he deserves to be at Harvard.
00:20:17.960 --> 00:20:18.119
Right.
00:20:18.679 --> 00:20:24.119
Whereas if you go to Cranbrook, you're just at Fort Flaunt Leroy, right?
00:20:24.359 --> 00:20:25.319
You didn't earn it.
00:20:25.399 --> 00:20:35.480
And and yet Cranbrook's I don't know for a fact today what it is, but their uh scholarship budget probably covers a third of their student body.
00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:39.720
It's way more diverse than the local private high school down the road.
00:20:39.879 --> 00:20:40.200
Yes.
00:20:40.359 --> 00:20:42.200
Uh but people don't understand that.
00:20:42.359 --> 00:20:58.679
And we were trying to come up with ways to to explain that to people that you know that that that private schools serve a variety of missions and and and you have to do what's right for your child, basically.
00:20:59.240 --> 00:21:14.200
You do, and and I think that uh part of it too is that with the smaller class size and the breaking down, there's a lot more interpersonal connection and things when you get into the private school system.
00:21:14.359 --> 00:21:14.679
Yeah.
00:21:14.839 --> 00:21:16.519
Um never there.
00:21:16.679 --> 00:21:23.399
But you know, my my first college experience, I was at um Lbion and still it's a private school.
00:21:23.720 --> 00:21:34.039
And um, but the class sizes were very small, and the professors took an interest into you know what you were doing, your project you're working on, and it was a constant communication.
00:21:34.200 --> 00:21:43.079
And if you're you know, my largest class size may have been like 20 students for a lecture, you know, and and my smallest, I think, was seven students for philosophy.
00:21:43.240 --> 00:21:48.200
And so when you have that in a private setting, you your learning is different.
00:21:48.440 --> 00:21:52.599
The the things that you take, the the the things that you learn about each other is different.
00:21:52.679 --> 00:21:55.159
And and so you can take that a lot of different places.
00:21:55.480 --> 00:22:02.440
Well, and I think clearly in college, you know, some people are well suited to the big school right off the bat.
00:22:02.679 --> 00:22:06.200
Other people, a small school like Abbian isn't perfect.
00:22:06.839 --> 00:22:10.200
But but but with high school, it's like, well, no, it's one high school.
00:22:10.279 --> 00:22:10.599
That's it.
00:22:10.679 --> 00:22:11.159
That's what we got.
00:22:11.319 --> 00:22:11.480
Yeah.
00:22:11.639 --> 00:22:19.319
Well, I always said that they to had they they I I was the skew that they had to take the uh the not so smart one to to satisfy their status quo.
00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:20.519
That was my goal.
00:22:20.679 --> 00:22:25.319
Um, but I think, yeah, because our our freshman class was like 459 students this entire.
00:22:25.879 --> 00:22:27.720
Student body was 1500 or something like that.
00:22:27.799 --> 00:22:29.000
It was really, really tiny.
00:22:29.319 --> 00:22:35.960
The best way I've heard that phrased was I was in the part of the class that made the top part of the class possible.
00:22:36.359 --> 00:22:37.399
There you go.
00:22:37.559 --> 00:22:38.359
I do like that.
00:22:38.519 --> 00:22:39.000
I like that.
00:22:39.079 --> 00:22:41.159
I was I was the bottom end of the curve.
00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:47.159
So yeah, so we were in Northern Virginia, my wife and I, and we didn't want to stay there.
00:22:47.799 --> 00:22:51.000
Washington, DC is a wonderful place to vacation.
00:22:51.799 --> 00:22:53.319
It's populated.
00:22:53.559 --> 00:22:55.240
It's it's it's a very popular.
00:22:55.639 --> 00:22:56.119
It's not us.
00:22:56.200 --> 00:22:57.960
I guess maybe the best way to put it right.
00:22:58.279 --> 00:23:04.759
It's very cement traffic, uh, humid and hot, like 11 different kinds of mosquitoes.
00:23:04.919 --> 00:23:05.240
Okay.
00:23:05.480 --> 00:23:08.039
Um, so we like the Midwest.
00:23:08.119 --> 00:23:08.359
Yeah.
00:23:08.519 --> 00:23:14.679
We like college towns because we'd been in Boulder and Colorado for the whole time I was in the pet food business.
00:23:14.919 --> 00:23:24.279
And um, you know, I'd lived here, Kathy had lived in Chicago, so so there wasn't anything about February she didn't understand.
00:23:24.519 --> 00:23:24.839
No.
00:23:25.480 --> 00:23:26.679
We we had friends here.
00:23:26.839 --> 00:23:27.079
Right.
00:23:27.240 --> 00:23:30.919
Uh and so we just often moved to Ann Arbor.
00:23:31.319 --> 00:23:31.720
Brilliant.
00:23:31.879 --> 00:23:36.359
And then I found a gig working for this company that protected electronics.
00:23:36.599 --> 00:23:36.839
Okay.
00:23:37.000 --> 00:23:38.119
Uh, and that's what I did.
00:23:38.200 --> 00:23:40.279
And right before COVID, it got sold.
00:23:40.440 --> 00:23:40.759
Okay.
00:23:41.480 --> 00:23:44.279
And I started a music box company.
00:23:44.519 --> 00:23:45.079
Oh, fun.
00:23:45.240 --> 00:23:45.480
Yeah.
00:23:45.559 --> 00:23:50.599
So music boxes that had university graphics.
00:23:50.759 --> 00:23:54.359
So I licensed the graphics from Michigan or Michigan State.
00:23:54.519 --> 00:23:54.839
Right.
00:23:54.919 --> 00:23:56.359
Uh, and other schools.
00:23:56.599 --> 00:23:58.440
Um, and then it played the fight song.
00:23:58.599 --> 00:23:59.399
Oh, fun.
00:23:59.639 --> 00:24:03.879
And then COVID came and it just killed the business.
00:24:04.039 --> 00:24:04.359
Yeah.
00:24:04.519 --> 00:24:08.679
Uh, and so I shut it down because the schools had no money.
00:24:08.839 --> 00:24:09.000
No.
00:24:09.319 --> 00:24:13.079
Uh, and I was thinking, what am I gonna do?
00:24:13.319 --> 00:24:13.879
Right.
00:24:14.200 --> 00:24:15.960
And I decided to write a book.
00:24:16.200 --> 00:24:16.440
Right.
00:24:16.599 --> 00:24:18.359
And that's that's what we have right here.
00:24:18.519 --> 00:24:18.759
Yeah.
00:24:19.000 --> 00:24:23.799
And so so tell us first, um, so tell us uh tell us the name of the book.
00:24:24.200 --> 00:24:24.440
Sure.
00:24:24.599 --> 00:24:29.079
The name of the book is Greta Garbo and the Rise of the Modern Woman.
00:24:29.399 --> 00:24:40.359
And it's it's it is a biography, but it's also about her impact, because people don't really understand that.
00:24:40.599 --> 00:24:52.039
And I think today, you know, people aren't so much reading about someone from the 1920s or 30s uh because they're watching their movies, right?
00:24:52.200 --> 00:24:54.679
Right, the way we might read about Taylor Swift today.
00:24:54.839 --> 00:24:55.319
Right.
00:24:55.720 --> 00:25:06.119
They're interested in the people from the 20s and 30s who were living lives that mattered in how women evolved.
00:25:06.200 --> 00:25:06.359
Yeah.
00:25:06.519 --> 00:25:07.480
And that's what she did.
00:25:07.559 --> 00:25:09.960
And that part of her story has never been written about.
00:25:10.119 --> 00:25:10.200
Right.
00:25:11.559 --> 00:25:13.559
Uh, and so that's what I did.
00:25:13.799 --> 00:25:17.319
Um, I knew a fair amount about her because she was my great aunt.
00:25:17.559 --> 00:25:17.799
Right.
00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:18.759
We talked about that.
00:25:18.919 --> 00:25:21.720
So no, and and just I I mean, she's fabulous.
00:25:21.879 --> 00:25:24.599
Just I I mean, they're just her striking features.
00:25:24.759 --> 00:25:25.000
Yeah.
00:25:25.079 --> 00:25:26.759
Uh she did photograph well.
00:25:27.399 --> 00:25:32.119
Um, though when she arrived in Hollywood, she was not considered good looking.
00:25:32.519 --> 00:25:34.440
Oh my she has perfect lips.
00:25:35.240 --> 00:25:41.319
Um, they thought she was too big, yeah, both too tall and too muscular.
00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:48.119
Um, but she acted in a totally different style that was more accessible.
00:25:48.359 --> 00:25:48.599
Right.
00:25:48.839 --> 00:25:50.839
People thought that they could read her thoughts.
00:25:50.919 --> 00:25:51.240
Uh-huh.
00:25:51.399 --> 00:25:57.240
Her thoughts in the movies she were in was in, were X-rated or R-rated.
00:25:57.399 --> 00:25:57.720
Right.
00:25:57.879 --> 00:26:00.200
Um, and that appealed to people.
00:26:01.000 --> 00:26:04.759
And she also was sort of a different, more modern woman.
00:26:04.919 --> 00:26:06.519
She was very independent.
00:26:06.839 --> 00:26:19.000
And her characters were, and they were very, I would say a classic Garbo character is a flawed woman who is working to sort of find herself and love.
00:26:19.399 --> 00:26:19.960
And does.
00:26:20.039 --> 00:26:21.240
That's the whole point of the movie.
00:26:21.720 --> 00:26:28.279
Um, that's the way most movies go, but she does it in a way that's more believable and accessible.
00:26:28.519 --> 00:26:32.919
And it's more believable and accessible because she's using a different acting style.
00:26:33.000 --> 00:26:33.159
Right.
00:26:33.399 --> 00:26:35.240
The style we expect today.
00:26:35.399 --> 00:26:35.639
Right.
00:26:35.879 --> 00:26:38.519
When she arrived, that wasn't the acting style.
00:26:38.679 --> 00:26:38.839
Right.
00:26:39.000 --> 00:26:40.599
So she transforms Hollywood.
00:26:40.759 --> 00:26:41.000
Right.
00:26:41.399 --> 00:26:46.039
Um, so what I didn't know was how women followed her.
00:26:46.200 --> 00:26:48.919
So I I knew her, I'd seen her films.
00:26:49.159 --> 00:26:54.839
I I when I read the old biographies, it was sort of like, well, that doesn't capture her.
00:26:54.919 --> 00:26:57.799
And I could measure that against what I knew she was like.
00:26:58.039 --> 00:26:58.200
Right.
00:26:58.359 --> 00:27:00.359
Well, you you knew her in the flash.
00:27:00.839 --> 00:27:01.960
You you knew her.
00:27:02.440 --> 00:27:06.919
But she's, you know, the age of my grandparents, right?
00:27:07.000 --> 00:27:07.079
Right.
00:27:07.240 --> 00:27:08.599
So it's not the same.
00:27:08.759 --> 00:27:10.519
But I didn't understand.
00:27:10.919 --> 00:27:19.799
I knew she'd been a star, but I didn't understand that it wasn't just that she was a star, it's that she had this impact on women.
00:27:20.599 --> 00:27:23.079
Um, and it was instant.
00:27:23.240 --> 00:27:30.279
I mean, like from her first film, yeah, and pervasive everywhere.
00:27:30.519 --> 00:27:34.119
Uh, specifically or particularly with clerks.
00:27:34.599 --> 00:27:40.039
Female clerks, that was the middle class job you could get as a woman in the 20s and 30s.
00:27:40.519 --> 00:27:45.240
Uh, you were a clerk, you were a nurse, uh, school teacher didn't pay as well.
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:48.599
A lot of school teachers went into clerking after a bit.
00:27:48.839 --> 00:28:02.839
Um, and that was a transition from the Victorian era, where you were either the wife or, you know, one of the downstairs characters from a British uh drama.
00:28:03.079 --> 00:28:07.639
You know, you were a scullery maid or, you know, housekeeper or something.
00:28:07.879 --> 00:28:08.440
Right.
00:28:09.319 --> 00:28:17.079
There was not, you know, okay, then factory work came, but clerks paid better than anything.
00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:28.279
And a female clerk didn't make as much as a male clerk, and half the clerks were men, and half the clerks were females, but a female clerk made more than a lot of men.
00:28:28.519 --> 00:28:35.399
And so it was a great job, and lots of women would flock to New York or some other cities.
00:28:35.480 --> 00:28:42.039
So New York was really the center of female clerks and get these great jobs and watch movies.
00:28:42.759 --> 00:28:50.119
And they would watch movies in first-run theaters, and they would watch Greta Garbo and other actors as well.
00:28:50.200 --> 00:29:02.599
They watched Joan Crawford, uh, Mary Pickford, but Garbo had the impact, and you can see it in their engagement with her.
00:29:03.079 --> 00:29:06.519
There's just nothing like it for any of the other actors.
00:29:06.919 --> 00:29:11.879
Oh, and they're fantastic stories, and she had an interesting life.
00:29:12.039 --> 00:29:13.079
That's the other thing.
00:29:13.319 --> 00:29:16.119
The first half of her life is just fascinating.
00:29:17.319 --> 00:29:23.960
You know, it's interesting because the um you're right about that, that behavior, even in even Detroit.
00:29:24.039 --> 00:29:32.119
I mean, you're still those were still heydays that were were going on in the cities and things like that, because my grandmother was a makeup clerk in Detroit.
00:29:32.279 --> 00:29:36.200
Um, I think that's how she ended up with marrying or meeting my grandfather.
00:29:36.440 --> 00:29:39.000
Um, but but you're absolutely correct.
00:29:39.159 --> 00:29:42.599
What um what's tell me some more about her?
00:29:43.480 --> 00:29:55.720
Well, I think um she was she was she was an interesting person in that she was always willing to not work if it wasn't right.
00:29:55.879 --> 00:29:56.359
Right.
00:29:56.519 --> 00:30:01.480
Um when she first came to the United States, she was 19.
00:30:01.639 --> 00:30:02.119
Right.
00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:09.720
And she'd signed a letter of intent for a five-year deal, but she didn't want a five-year deal.
00:30:10.119 --> 00:30:12.359
She wanted, she actually wanted a one-year deal.
00:30:12.440 --> 00:30:18.519
Her sister was sick, had leukemia, and she wanted to see what Hollywood was like and then decide.
00:30:18.759 --> 00:30:19.000
Right.
00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:26.519
Uh, but MGM wanted her to sign a longer-term deal, and they they compromised on a three-year deal.
00:30:27.159 --> 00:30:32.839
MGM didn't really compromise with very many people, especially unestablished people.
00:30:33.000 --> 00:30:33.240
Right.
00:30:33.399 --> 00:30:35.799
So they kind of knew she had talent.
00:30:36.440 --> 00:30:48.440
Um, they would regret signing the deal because she became so successful so quickly, they're like, well, we're gonna spend all this money, and then she'll sign with somebody else.
00:30:48.759 --> 00:30:58.679
So we're usually in a in a film industry contract issue, it's the actor walking away from the studio.
00:30:58.919 --> 00:31:06.279
In her case, the studio wouldn't give her roles of a certain quality, they would give her crappy roles.
00:31:06.759 --> 00:31:10.519
And they told her this unless you sign a five-year deal, we're gonna give you crappy roles.
00:31:10.759 --> 00:31:11.079
Right.
00:31:11.240 --> 00:31:13.879
And so she walked out of the first crappy role.
00:31:14.679 --> 00:31:19.720
Uh, so then they said, okay, come in, we'll do Anna Karenina.
00:31:20.039 --> 00:31:25.960
And she came in and they said, once you sign this five-year contract, she walked out again.
00:31:26.200 --> 00:31:32.359
Uh, and they eventually, you know, a couple months later, signed a five-year deal, but she got a lot of things out of that.
00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:32.599
Right.
00:31:32.759 --> 00:31:35.079
And one of the main things, I mean, everybody focuses on the money.
00:31:35.240 --> 00:31:36.359
She goes, paid okay.
00:31:36.519 --> 00:31:39.159
It wasn't quite yet the top of the industry.
00:31:39.319 --> 00:31:41.319
You know, she'd get there in the 30s.
00:31:41.559 --> 00:31:41.960
Right.
00:31:42.359 --> 00:31:47.079
But she only wanted to make three films a year.
00:31:47.720 --> 00:31:49.639
At the time, everybody made four.
00:31:49.799 --> 00:31:55.000
I mean, sometimes they'd make fewer because they were sick or pregnant or they took a trip or something.
00:31:55.079 --> 00:31:58.440
But the industry standard was four films a year.
00:31:58.599 --> 00:31:58.919
Right.
00:31:59.079 --> 00:32:01.399
She said, I don't I don't want to make four films a year.
00:32:01.559 --> 00:32:07.319
I that's not I had I put a lot into each of these roles, and I want to make three films a year.
00:32:07.559 --> 00:32:08.679
So she got that.
00:32:08.839 --> 00:32:21.639
So she was always um interested in doing things the right way, and in a way that uh to the degree possible, she was doing what she wanted.
00:32:22.039 --> 00:32:23.559
She couldn't always control everything.
00:32:23.639 --> 00:32:34.599
So when she signed her five-year contract for five years, she made whatever movie MGM uh put her in, but MGM was smart enough to realize what she was good at.
00:32:34.759 --> 00:32:35.000
Right.
00:32:35.159 --> 00:32:39.000
And Falberg, you know, gave her some really nice roles.
00:32:39.240 --> 00:32:39.720
Mm-hmm.
00:32:41.879 --> 00:32:48.200
Now, knowing what she was and and steadfast and standing up for herself, yeah.
00:32:48.519 --> 00:32:51.399
How do you see yourself in her?
00:32:51.720 --> 00:32:57.960
And, you know, why did you want to to put in the effort um to write a book?
00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:08.440
Well, I had always known from so I never read a biography of Garbo before she passed away.
00:33:08.679 --> 00:33:09.000
Okay.
00:33:10.279 --> 00:33:12.039
And I really wasn't focused on that.
00:33:12.119 --> 00:33:23.079
But then I did read a couple, realized that they were not right, talk with my mom, who knew a lot, and and and she said, no, there just really aren't any good biographies.
00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:27.399
And that's just what I would call the the day-to-day life facts.
00:33:27.879 --> 00:33:36.919
And a lot of people made stuff up about her early, even in the early 30s, people were just fabricating stories, right?
00:33:37.079 --> 00:33:47.000
And they ended up in these biographies because they didn't the the people writing the books didn't know what to look at as real and what as fake.
00:33:47.159 --> 00:33:47.559
Right.
00:33:47.799 --> 00:33:57.639
Um, I was able to really break through a lot of that because I had some help in terms of knowing some things.
00:33:57.799 --> 00:33:58.039
Okay.
00:33:58.200 --> 00:34:03.079
And also I think I just worked at it for longer than people had before.
00:34:03.319 --> 00:34:03.559
Yeah.
00:34:03.799 --> 00:34:15.400
And I wasn't maybe as misogynistic as some of the other writers, who just kind of had this view that well, she's a girl, or could she really have done with intent?
00:34:15.880 --> 00:34:39.159
Um, but you know, when um she arrives in Hollywood, if you read what the people in the industry said about her arrival and her first film, even um clearly it's she's doing something in a in a skilled way.
00:34:39.400 --> 00:34:39.960
Right.
00:34:40.519 --> 00:34:47.960
And yet a biographer would write, was she really an actor or just a glorious presence?
00:34:48.119 --> 00:34:49.719
You know, it's sort of like, really?
00:34:50.199 --> 00:34:50.519
You know?
00:34:50.759 --> 00:34:50.920
Yeah.
00:34:51.320 --> 00:35:01.559
No, and and that those are always hard words to like read when you're when especially when you one know the person and two, uh it's it's kind of like being just brushed under the rug of sorts, you know.
00:35:01.639 --> 00:35:11.239
It's like uh no, she was a credible person that you know went into Hollywood with a talent and commanded a presence, you know.
00:35:11.320 --> 00:35:16.440
It wasn't that she just had a glorious presence, it's just you know, she did, she was a star.
00:35:16.679 --> 00:35:23.079
Therefore, you know, when she's shining, the the the light's going to be on her and people are going to be attracted to that.
00:35:23.239 --> 00:35:30.199
So well, so so even like before I wrote the book, before COVID happened, right?
00:35:30.360 --> 00:35:34.519
It was sort of like I thought, you know, someone needs to write a better book.
00:35:34.759 --> 00:35:40.279
And when when I looked at myself and said, and you're it, my answer was, oh God, I'm running a company.
00:35:40.679 --> 00:35:41.719
Yeah, I don't want to do this.
00:35:42.039 --> 00:35:44.039
I don't had that kind of time.
00:35:44.759 --> 00:35:58.039
Um, I did write write uh a book for a f a a museum exhibit uh-huh of the photos she collected of herself, okay, which was in 2005.
00:35:58.279 --> 00:35:58.599
Okay.
00:35:58.759 --> 00:36:02.440
So the great thing about a photo book is you write an essay.
00:36:02.679 --> 00:36:02.920
Okay.
00:36:03.079 --> 00:36:06.279
It's not really a book in a biography sense.
00:36:06.519 --> 00:36:06.759
Right.
00:36:06.920 --> 00:36:08.279
So I wrote my essay.
00:36:08.599 --> 00:36:15.559
But in researching my essay, I was sort of like, oh, there's so much out there you'd have to do.
00:36:15.719 --> 00:36:19.000
If you were going to do a biography, it would take months and trips.
00:36:19.159 --> 00:36:33.880
And even then, when I did do the trips, and I had done some in the sense that because I ran my own company, if I went to Los Angeles, which I did all the time, right, I could spend a day at the Margaret Herrick Library.
00:36:33.960 --> 00:36:34.199
Yeah.
00:36:34.360 --> 00:36:36.199
I'm the boss, I can do things like that.
00:36:36.360 --> 00:36:36.840
Yes.
00:36:37.079 --> 00:36:38.519
Um, so I would.
00:36:38.599 --> 00:36:42.519
And so I learned a little and I had to do research for the photo book.
00:36:42.679 --> 00:36:48.920
So that it wasn't that I was unaware, but I was aware enough to know how bad it was.
00:36:49.079 --> 00:36:49.320
Yeah.
00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:53.000
And so it was sort of like, oh God, you would need just all this time.
00:36:53.239 --> 00:36:53.480
Right.
00:36:53.639 --> 00:37:01.400
To you'd have to, you'd have to go back and do all of it as primary research, as if none of this had ever been written.
00:37:01.639 --> 00:37:01.960
Right.
00:37:02.119 --> 00:37:03.320
And then so that's what I did.
00:37:03.559 --> 00:37:03.960
Right.
00:37:04.199 --> 00:37:04.440
Right.
00:37:04.599 --> 00:37:14.119
No, so it is so it's more it's presented more in a historical memoir of biography of her, or how how is it?
00:37:14.759 --> 00:37:17.159
I I think of it as women's history.
00:37:17.320 --> 00:37:17.639
Okay.
00:37:17.880 --> 00:37:30.119
The book I think is closest is a book called A Woman of No Importance, which is it about about an American woman who spied against the Germans in France.
00:37:30.360 --> 00:37:30.599
Okay.
00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:39.079
And then she ended up running a cell, uh-huh, and then after the war ended up as a senior person of the CIA.
00:37:39.239 --> 00:37:39.559
Right.
00:37:39.719 --> 00:37:51.320
You know, so here's a woman who had so if you look back at the 20s and 30s and you say which women lived lives that influenced the other lives of women, right?
00:37:51.480 --> 00:37:54.519
You know, in what they did, what they represented.
00:37:54.840 --> 00:38:10.840
And I I actually didn't realize this when I started the book research, but I I think now I can say this pretty comfortably, is that there's maybe five people and maybe ten tops that that people turn to, and she's one of them.
00:38:11.000 --> 00:38:11.239
Right.
00:38:11.400 --> 00:38:13.480
You know, it's sort of well, Eleanor Roosevelt.
00:38:13.719 --> 00:38:14.360
That's the easy one.
00:38:14.759 --> 00:38:16.599
That's the first one that of course comes to your head.
00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:19.480
She got like four times the mail Eleanor Roosevelt got.
00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:19.880
Right.
00:38:20.039 --> 00:38:20.519
Oh yes.
00:38:20.920 --> 00:38:29.719
Well, because because people write to to the they don't write to the historical or the the people that they respect in that way.
00:38:29.799 --> 00:38:34.679
They look, they write to the people that they look up to that they want to and um that they want to be like.
00:38:35.000 --> 00:38:35.239
You know.
00:38:35.480 --> 00:38:42.119
Yeah, before the internet, you wrote letters to people who you liked and asked for photos or just to connect.
00:38:42.279 --> 00:38:42.840
Oh yeah.
00:38:43.000 --> 00:38:49.799
Um, and so uh that's who people wrote to was Breta Garbo.
00:38:49.960 --> 00:38:53.400
I mean, she supported the entire postal system as far as I can see.
00:38:54.199 --> 00:38:55.559
Yeah, I like that.
00:38:55.799 --> 00:38:57.880
Just thousands of letters a week.
00:38:58.039 --> 00:39:01.960
I it's in the book, and so I'll get the numbers close to right.
00:39:02.279 --> 00:39:02.599
Right.
00:39:02.759 --> 00:39:11.400
But if it took 10 minutes to answer every letter written to her, I figured it would take a staff of like 35 people to answer her mail.
00:39:11.559 --> 00:39:12.039
Wow.
00:39:12.360 --> 00:39:12.920
Right?
00:39:13.239 --> 00:39:15.079
And that's what they did at MGM.
00:39:15.159 --> 00:39:16.119
They answered her mail.
00:39:16.279 --> 00:39:17.320
You got a photo.
00:39:17.559 --> 00:39:18.759
Wow, crazy.
00:39:18.920 --> 00:39:27.079
Now, um man, that to be that scene is, you know, that that's gotta be intense.
00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:28.440
Well, it was intense.
00:39:28.519 --> 00:39:35.079
And so when people think about Garbo now, she's sort of reduced to this meme of reclusiveness.
00:39:35.480 --> 00:39:37.320
And she was a private person.
00:39:38.440 --> 00:39:40.759
She didn't need additional publicity.
00:39:41.000 --> 00:39:48.119
So she didn't do any of the normal publicity things because what you need you need a bigger crowd.
00:39:48.360 --> 00:39:48.920
Right.
00:39:49.480 --> 00:39:51.000
She didn't really need that.
00:39:51.239 --> 00:39:51.559
No.
00:39:51.799 --> 00:39:57.400
And uh, and in fact, you know, there's always been an issue with celebrity of stalkers.
00:39:57.559 --> 00:39:57.719
Right.
00:39:57.880 --> 00:39:59.639
And she had stalkers, of course.
00:39:59.799 --> 00:40:02.279
You know, so she needs to accentuate that.
00:40:02.519 --> 00:40:02.759
Right.
00:40:03.079 --> 00:40:10.920
And back in the 20s and 30s, there wasn't sort of this protective cocoon that celebrities can choose to live in today.
00:40:11.079 --> 00:40:11.320
Right.
00:40:11.480 --> 00:40:20.440
You know, there are some celebrities I can tell, because they seem so disconnected from the everyday world, who are just living in the little celebrity cocoon.
00:40:20.519 --> 00:40:23.320
And then there are other ones who, you know, go out and do grocery shop.
00:40:23.559 --> 00:40:24.119
Right, right.
00:40:24.360 --> 00:40:34.840
So I not a celebrity in the normal way, but I do remember uh George Bush to show how every day he was went to the grocery store, but didn't know how to pay.
00:40:35.239 --> 00:40:35.639
You know.
00:40:36.279 --> 00:40:38.039
So that was never garbo.
00:40:38.679 --> 00:40:48.440
No, no, and that's the thing is it you can't lose sight even if you do make it to a certain level or a certain degree, you just you can't lose sight of just the basic things of living.
00:40:48.519 --> 00:40:59.239
You can't depend on everybody just to take care of you and and and such, and and it just to be being the strong woman thing that I you know, I I definitely cherish that.
00:40:59.480 --> 00:41:10.519
Um now, how did you going back to that um original question, how as you're doing your research, as you're going through all of the pages and you're writing first, uh, how long did it take you to write this?
00:41:10.920 --> 00:41:15.480
Well, I so I started serious research in COVID.
00:41:15.639 --> 00:41:15.880
Uh-huh.
00:41:16.039 --> 00:41:20.759
So, you know, some middle of 2021, I'm like, oh God, didn't you miss forever?
00:41:20.920 --> 00:41:25.079
Uh, and what I did was I used my Michigan resources.
00:41:25.320 --> 00:41:29.719
I realized that Eastern Michigan would let me take books out.
00:41:30.199 --> 00:41:39.320
Michigan eventually let me take books out and let me, as an alum, access all the electronic resources at the library without going to the library.
00:41:39.559 --> 00:41:39.719
Right.
00:41:39.880 --> 00:41:41.159
So that made a lot of things easier.
00:41:41.320 --> 00:41:47.639
And then also the Michigan library system lets you borrow books from other libraries.
00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:55.719
So, so a lot of what I researched about Sweden and what Sweden was like at the time actually came from Calvin.
00:41:55.880 --> 00:42:01.159
You know, they had this, you know, big section somewhere in their library that I've never seen, but I've gotten their books.
00:42:01.719 --> 00:42:02.039
Yes.
00:42:02.279 --> 00:42:07.799
Um, and there were a number of libraries that that were great at providing resources.
00:42:08.279 --> 00:42:14.679
And it allowed me to frame out sort of, well, here are the the pieces of the story.
00:42:14.840 --> 00:42:18.759
Here's things, you know, about acting, right?
00:42:18.920 --> 00:42:24.679
Reading up on acting and the transition to naturalistic acting from stylized acting.
00:42:24.840 --> 00:42:25.079
Right.
00:42:25.239 --> 00:42:37.000
You know, and and there were rabbit holes, you know, like I I had to figure out how so Sweden's naturalistic acting, how does that interact with the you know, the Russians?
00:42:37.239 --> 00:42:48.840
And you know, that is where I always was told Russian naturalistic acting came and was the method, and and it's like, well, no, they were just kribbing from the Swedes, right?
00:42:48.920 --> 00:42:54.920
The Swedes were writing Strindberg and uh stuff like that.
00:42:56.199 --> 00:43:23.799
So uh you know, so so the the um I'm trying the Russian director who drove all this, I his name for some reason escapes me at this moment, but um you know he he would vacation in Finland, which they spoke Swedish on the coast of Finland because it had been a Swedish province for 300 years before the Russians took it.
00:43:24.440 --> 00:43:26.440
So he's watching Swedish theater.
00:43:26.519 --> 00:43:30.440
All the Swedish um actors would act in Finland.
00:43:30.840 --> 00:43:40.920
And in fact, uh the three people who had the most influence on her acting life from Sweden all had been on stage in Helsinki.
00:43:41.079 --> 00:43:41.320
Okay.
00:43:41.480 --> 00:43:47.559
At you know, I don't think at the same time, except like one year overlap for Stiller and Melander.
00:43:48.199 --> 00:43:59.480
Uh, but they'd all been there, they all they all had gone through this naturalistic program and um and it it was diffusing out.
00:43:59.559 --> 00:44:01.719
And there was naturalistic acting before.
00:44:01.880 --> 00:44:02.199
Right.
00:44:02.440 --> 00:44:09.719
In in Paris, there was a theater that was sort of a naturalistic theater, but it wasn't the the main vein of acting, right?
00:44:10.119 --> 00:44:18.759
Um, and so you know that I could research from the comfort of my house, which is perfect, which is perfect.
00:44:19.159 --> 00:44:30.440
Um, and that so I I ended up with a lot of places I wanted to go that I went to, but I also So uh maybe was more focused than if I'd gone to the places first.
00:44:30.599 --> 00:44:33.719
I I came with my list of things to research, right?
00:44:33.880 --> 00:44:36.360
Uh from all the library work I'd done.
00:44:36.519 --> 00:44:36.759
Right.
00:44:36.920 --> 00:44:40.440
But when COVID finally ended, yeah, I went to Sweden.
00:44:40.679 --> 00:44:45.880
And then I went back because I found out I needed even more to get it the first time.
00:44:46.279 --> 00:44:50.920
And that was, I think some of it was I was willing to go back.
00:44:51.000 --> 00:44:57.559
It's like, why, you know, I didn't ask the right question or I didn't look in that file.
00:44:57.639 --> 00:45:00.679
And it turns out the other file might have info.
00:45:01.239 --> 00:45:10.279
Um you know, so so I had I had gone to the University of Wisconsin to research Walter Wanger for Queen Christina.
00:45:10.920 --> 00:45:18.519
Um but I didn't look originally at the Duchess de Languay file, which is a film she did not make there.
00:45:20.119 --> 00:45:25.159
What was interesting is uh it was sort of like, oh, it's not the way the story was told at all.
00:45:25.320 --> 00:45:30.039
If you read these files, um Wanger didn't have a script for the film.
00:45:30.679 --> 00:45:38.840
You know, the the the production code administration rejected his script and gave him you know 11 pages of the specific problems.
00:45:39.079 --> 00:45:39.320
Right.
00:45:39.559 --> 00:45:43.880
He he had no chance of getting funding because he didn't have a script.
00:45:44.199 --> 00:45:44.440
Right.
00:45:45.079 --> 00:45:48.840
So all these little things so then so that's COVID, right?
00:45:48.920 --> 00:45:55.320
COVID and then trips, and I write all this stuff and I go, this is way too long in what's the point?
00:45:55.639 --> 00:45:57.559
It didn't have a it didn't have a focus.
00:45:57.799 --> 00:45:57.960
Right.
00:45:58.199 --> 00:45:59.000
So I had to think.
00:46:00.440 --> 00:46:04.360
What's what's the what's the what's the point I want to make to people?
00:46:04.679 --> 00:46:04.920
Right.
00:46:05.320 --> 00:46:12.679
And I realized it was well the first way I phrased it was she was the first modern woman.
00:46:12.840 --> 00:46:13.000
Yeah.
00:46:13.159 --> 00:46:18.679
And she really, I mean, wasn't, but she was in this big marker light sets.
00:46:18.840 --> 00:46:19.159
Yes.
00:46:19.400 --> 00:46:23.799
I ended up changing the title because I think it is maybe more reflective.
00:46:23.880 --> 00:46:28.840
I mean, there were a lot of people, there's not one person that changed how women fit into society.
00:46:29.239 --> 00:46:34.039
There were a lot of changes that were happening for women in the 20s and the 30s.
00:46:34.199 --> 00:46:37.880
I mean, you see it in the way that they were dressing, in the way that they were acting.
00:46:38.039 --> 00:46:57.320
I mean, you you talk about the flappers, and I mean, there's a lot of different things in the social scenes and and and just being more free um to have their, you know, to speak their own mind and not just be somebody's wife or somebody's mother, you know, and and everybody stands on the shoulders of the people who come before them, and Corbo did too.
00:46:57.639 --> 00:47:06.840
But her impact was just so significant and um all-encompassing.
00:47:06.920 --> 00:47:09.400
I mean, it wasn't just America, it was all around the world.
00:47:09.639 --> 00:47:10.199
Oh, yeah.
00:47:10.360 --> 00:47:16.279
Um, during World War II that I found this out, um, and not everything makes it into the book.
00:47:16.360 --> 00:47:24.039
That's the second thing is I had a book like this, and I had to get into that, and it's yeah, and it's still thick.
00:47:24.279 --> 00:47:25.559
It is, but you know what?
00:47:25.639 --> 00:47:27.239
Uh it I'm I'm super excited about it.
00:47:28.920 --> 00:47:30.519
Let's talk about one theme.
00:47:30.599 --> 00:47:34.119
So, like all this really cool photography stuff out of there.
00:47:34.279 --> 00:47:36.679
Um, it's cool, but it's not in the book.
00:47:36.920 --> 00:47:39.239
Well, they could always be that second book, yeah.
00:47:39.559 --> 00:47:51.000
But in Japan, Garbo was huge, and when the war started, girls hid their Garbo photo collections because they didn't want to throw them out.
00:47:51.880 --> 00:47:55.719
But she wasn't a you know, Anglo, she wasn't Japanese, right?
00:47:55.799 --> 00:47:55.960
Right.
00:47:56.119 --> 00:48:02.759
So there was stories later on, you these women would say, Yeah, I hit my photos for the whole war.
00:48:03.159 --> 00:48:05.320
Um, but that's the kind of impact she had.
00:48:06.440 --> 00:48:07.400
Oh, definitely.
00:48:07.559 --> 00:48:11.480
No, she was uh she was absolutely beautiful.
00:48:12.840 --> 00:48:16.519
You know, uh it's funny because it's our conception of beauty today.
00:48:17.079 --> 00:48:26.199
Um to uh a 1925 uh cultural critique person, she wasn't pixie-ish enough.
00:48:26.679 --> 00:48:26.840
Right?
00:48:26.920 --> 00:48:28.679
She's supposed to look like Mary Pickford.
00:48:28.920 --> 00:48:29.159
Yeah.
00:48:29.400 --> 00:48:39.719
Um and she's she's not she's athletic, but she's not um dancer-like, I'll call it.
00:48:40.519 --> 00:48:44.840
Um you know, she plays a mean game of tennis.
00:48:45.799 --> 00:48:50.440
Um so she's physical in that sense.
00:48:50.840 --> 00:49:00.759
Um so after all the research, not to cut you off, but after all the research then and and all of that, so you did all the research during COVID.
00:49:01.159 --> 00:49:02.199
Well, and then after.
00:49:02.440 --> 00:49:05.400
And then you know, for another year traveled around.
00:49:05.719 --> 00:49:10.599
This has been so 20 middle of 21-ish.
00:49:11.719 --> 00:49:15.320
So this has been almost a five-year project for you.
00:49:15.400 --> 00:49:16.039
Oh, yeah.
00:49:16.199 --> 00:49:23.239
Um, with the seed planted many years before then, um, but just not, you know, not acted upon.
00:49:23.320 --> 00:49:26.039
It it had to grow for a little bit before it got there.
00:49:26.279 --> 00:49:35.000
But so at through all that research, where I'm trying to get back is that first question is how much of you is in her, or how much do you find her in you?
00:49:35.320 --> 00:49:44.840
Well, I think I'm basically a feminist and always was because well, my mom, you know, who's her niece, went to law school in the 50s.
00:49:45.000 --> 00:49:45.159
Right.
00:49:45.320 --> 00:49:45.480
Right.
00:49:45.559 --> 00:49:47.320
Women didn't go to law school in the 50s.
00:49:47.480 --> 00:49:49.079
You know, she chose to get married, right?
00:49:49.400 --> 00:49:50.519
That's what she chose to do.
00:49:50.679 --> 00:49:50.920
Right.
00:49:51.159 --> 00:49:53.799
And at the time you didn't have kids and work.
00:49:54.519 --> 00:49:55.000
And she did.
00:49:55.320 --> 00:49:57.480
Um, though four kids, full-time job.
00:49:57.799 --> 00:50:06.440
Um, but my grandmother, her sister-in-law, was incredibly independent and um certainly a force of nature.
00:50:06.920 --> 00:50:09.239
Uh, and so for me, that wasn't any big deal.
00:50:09.320 --> 00:50:10.920
I mean, my mom taught me how to cook.
00:50:11.000 --> 00:50:13.960
That's just like part of living a life.
00:50:14.119 --> 00:50:14.440
Right.
00:50:14.759 --> 00:50:25.320
Uh and I think um that there there's a certain uh maybe directness that she had that I have.
00:50:26.039 --> 00:50:27.320
So those two things.
00:50:27.639 --> 00:50:27.960
Good.
00:50:28.279 --> 00:50:28.679
Yeah.
00:50:28.920 --> 00:50:32.199
And how do you um how do you buy the book?
00:50:32.440 --> 00:50:36.840
I mean, this this was launched um how recently is it within the last 30 days?
00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:38.519
Yes, beginning of the month.
00:50:38.759 --> 00:50:40.519
Okay, beginning of May.
00:50:40.679 --> 00:50:47.799
And then um, so we're launching, so we're sometime in the in the fall, but you know, it's perfect for holiday shopping.
00:50:47.880 --> 00:50:55.159
So how how do we find this book to be able to to buy it to gift uh for ourselves and gift to our friends and family?
00:50:55.480 --> 00:50:55.799
Sure.
00:50:55.880 --> 00:50:58.440
It's available first off in all the formats.
00:50:58.519 --> 00:51:03.880
So there's hardcover, a paperback, a large format, and an ebook.
00:51:04.119 --> 00:51:05.719
Oh, nice, fabulous.
00:51:05.960 --> 00:51:11.320
And you can buy it anywhere in the sense that you can buy it at a bookstore.
00:51:11.480 --> 00:51:16.279
You may have to special order it at a bookstore, but you can but it's in their system.
00:51:16.519 --> 00:51:16.840
Okay.
00:51:17.559 --> 00:51:19.400
Not every book is.
00:51:19.799 --> 00:51:23.239
Um, and all of the online retailers.
00:51:23.480 --> 00:51:23.719
Right.
00:51:23.880 --> 00:51:28.199
I I even saw my book was available at Walmart if you special order it.
00:51:28.279 --> 00:51:29.079
So fabulous.
00:51:29.320 --> 00:51:35.480
Uh, but you know, Amazon, Barnes and Noble, uh, Ruten Kobo.
00:51:36.199 --> 00:51:40.039
So just look for the actual title and and and you specifically.
00:51:40.199 --> 00:51:46.599
So for all of our listening audience, um, the title of the book is Greta Garbo and the Rise of the Modern Woman.
00:51:46.840 --> 00:51:50.440
And the author is is our friend now, Scott Ricefield.
00:51:50.599 --> 00:51:53.719
And that's R-E-I-S-F-I-E-L-D.
00:51:54.039 --> 00:51:57.159
So they know how to find you to make sure that they can get this book.
00:51:57.239 --> 00:52:05.799
And now um it sounds like there is potential for for some more um uh uh writing in the future.
00:52:05.960 --> 00:52:08.360
It sounds like there's a photography section that should be.
00:52:08.759 --> 00:52:13.239
You know, it doesn't have to be as big as this, but it might be well see.
00:52:13.400 --> 00:52:15.400
I knew I would like the research.
00:52:15.559 --> 00:52:18.119
I'm kind of a research person.
00:52:19.079 --> 00:52:22.360
It turns out I like writing more than I thought.
00:52:22.519 --> 00:52:25.480
So yeah, I'm gonna keep writing because I like it.
00:52:25.719 --> 00:52:26.119
Yes.
00:52:26.279 --> 00:52:29.799
Oh, and there's so much you can do with with some good words on paper.
00:52:29.960 --> 00:52:31.880
It's it it's so much fun with that.
00:52:32.039 --> 00:52:36.599
Um, so I think that sounds like a a spectacular plan for you going forward.
00:52:36.920 --> 00:52:41.079
Yeah, my big adjustment was it wasn't a business plan, so I had to write differently.
00:52:41.239 --> 00:52:41.719
Yes.
00:52:42.279 --> 00:52:46.920
Yeah, that there is a transition because that was that's that's a struggle, I think.
00:52:47.000 --> 00:52:52.679
It and in getting your voice into something because when you're writing business, it has to be bland.
00:52:52.759 --> 00:52:59.639
There's no I wheat, you know, it's it's it's this is how it is, this is what it does, and and so it's very robotic.
00:52:59.880 --> 00:53:07.559
And so to get that human voice back into it and to get not just the human voice, but your voice um into the words as you're writing.
00:53:07.639 --> 00:53:16.440
So it's it's Scott that's telling the story uh about his great aunt, and and it's just fabulous of all of the things that she did and all the things that she was able to accomplish.
00:53:16.599 --> 00:53:18.840
Now she passed away in what year?
00:53:19.159 --> 00:53:20.599
1990.
00:53:20.920 --> 00:53:21.559
1990.
00:53:21.639 --> 00:53:21.719
Okay.
00:53:22.039 --> 00:53:23.159
So she was 85.
00:53:24.119 --> 00:53:28.440
Um, and and her last film was in 1941.
00:53:28.679 --> 00:53:28.920
Okay.
00:53:29.079 --> 00:53:30.039
She was 36.
00:53:30.279 --> 00:53:30.599
Okay.
00:53:31.079 --> 00:53:39.880
And that was, you know, the tip of the iceberg at the air, you know, or not iceberg, but the the edge of, you know, Hollywood at that point for a lot of people.
00:53:40.199 --> 00:53:40.440
Yeah.
00:53:40.599 --> 00:53:49.320
But not many people knew, even her contemporaries, that she tried to make films for another 15 years, and the biggest issue was censorship.
00:53:49.480 --> 00:53:53.639
She didn't want to compromise on the kind of woman she portrayed.
00:53:53.960 --> 00:53:54.599
Wow.
00:53:55.719 --> 00:53:56.840
Very strong.
00:53:57.159 --> 00:53:58.360
Very strong.
00:53:58.679 --> 00:53:59.239
Nice.
00:53:59.480 --> 00:54:06.920
Well, I look forward, like I said, I I very much thank you for for the copy of the book, and and I look so very much to reading it.
00:54:07.079 --> 00:54:12.920
Um, so Scott, one of the last things that we do as part of our interview is to ask you about your what your personal anthem is.
00:54:13.079 --> 00:54:16.840
Um, music's a big thing for us, and and it's a huge connection point.
00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:20.279
So our personal anthem, of course, is anything that that that boosts us.
00:54:20.440 --> 00:54:23.559
It could be for a season, it could be for a moment, it could be for a lifetime.
00:54:23.639 --> 00:54:27.239
Um, but what would you describe your your personal anthem as being?
00:54:27.559 --> 00:54:35.000
Oh, I would say um a George Harrison song and um old brown shoe.
00:54:35.400 --> 00:54:37.480
Old brown shoe, George Harrison.
00:54:37.639 --> 00:54:38.920
I like George Harrison.
00:54:39.000 --> 00:54:45.480
I'm a bit, I'm old, I I I popped into my head this was just uh literally a couple days ago.
00:54:45.639 --> 00:54:47.880
Um I I have this little robot thing.
00:54:48.039 --> 00:54:59.239
Um, but my first experience with the Beatles was Here Comes the Sun, but on eight eight track and it stuck into this little robot thing that was like from the 1970s or whatever.
00:54:59.320 --> 00:55:00.039
I still have it.
00:55:00.199 --> 00:55:01.799
Um it's some vintage toy.
00:55:02.039 --> 00:55:08.440
Um, but it was just like, but that's you know, the I just love the sound of those guys, um their voice and everything.
00:55:08.519 --> 00:55:12.119
And and so what's the meaning for you for that song?
00:55:12.679 --> 00:55:13.960
Just get going.
00:55:14.279 --> 00:55:15.079
Just get going.
00:55:15.239 --> 00:55:15.480
Yeah.
00:55:15.559 --> 00:55:15.880
Yeah.
00:55:16.119 --> 00:55:24.840
Oh, I like I like it musically and just sort of a, you know, sort of to me, it's a an upbeat, sort of go get started kind of song.
00:55:25.079 --> 00:55:25.320
Yeah.
00:55:25.400 --> 00:55:30.039
I mean, and that's the purpose of the anthem, you know, that it's the song that that boosts you.
00:55:30.119 --> 00:55:39.079
It's it's the song that you kick up before you go in to sell this, you know, do the marketing pitch or to take a test, or it's the one that lifts you, and that's what the purpose of it is.
00:55:39.159 --> 00:55:42.599
And and so thank you for sharing um that song with us.
00:55:42.840 --> 00:55:46.920
And thank you for joining us on this week's episode of Life Between Coasts.
00:55:47.000 --> 00:55:51.239
Please remember to like, share, and subscribe to grow our community of listeners.
00:55:51.320 --> 00:55:54.279
We'd like to thank Scott again for joining us this week.
00:55:54.440 --> 00:55:55.880
And we hope you have a great week.
00:55:55.960 --> 00:55:58.119
And until then, bye bye.