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00:00:18.640Hello, everybody, and welcome to today's podcast.
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00:00:25.440And I'm delighted to be joined by Bradley Harris all the way from across the pond from America.
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00:00:32.079Thank you, Bradley, so much for changing your time zones and joining us here on a UK podcast.
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00:00:33.679Delighted to have you.
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00:00:43.280Please share a little bit about you and communication and the importance of talking about and having those honest conversations.
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00:00:44.640Over to you, Bradley.
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00:00:45.439Thank you.
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00:00:47.359Great to be with you, Nicky.
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00:00:51.359And so so great to be going into the fall now.
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00:00:52.240I'm so happy.
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00:00:54.880I love the summer, but here we are going into the fall.
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00:01:02.960And as I kind of start to reflect on, you know, the fall and what's coming, I think it's always a good time for folks to kind of check in.
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00:01:12.719I'm a big quarterly check-in kind of guy, but I think now as everyone's coming, you know, out of the summer and off of school and everyone's routine's been rocked.
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00:01:16.480It's just a really nice time to kind of reflect on what's ahead.
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00:01:17.760And the year is not over.
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00:01:20.959There are still four really good months of the year left.
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00:01:26.159I know we tend to fade out around the holiday season, but yeah, it's really great to be with you.
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00:01:29.120Sorry, I went on that little tangent about the beginning of September.
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00:01:36.239Um yeah, no, my name is Bradley Harris, and I run a boutique strategic advisory firm.
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00:01:39.760And I get the question a lot from people well, what does that mean?
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00:01:40.799What do you do?
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00:01:42.000What is your title?
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00:01:47.280And I think you will relate more than anybody, and obviously anybody listening to the podcast.
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00:01:54.239I think it's really hard for folks in in communication and public relations to give themselves a title.
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00:01:59.519I don't really, I don't really associate with one title in particular.
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00:02:23.439So with my role with the clients that I have, I have seven different clients that I work with, and it really is strategic advisory, meaning advising on, you know, really complex issues and getting projects across the finish line and bringing the right stakeholders to the table, you know, to influence whatever the outcome is or to build trust and to build credibility.
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00:02:39.199And I think that's the really root of communication and the root of what we do within our field is aligning everyone to I have to use this, I was raised in church to be singing from the same hymnal.
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00:02:46.479And I'm a huge, you know, I love, I'm a huge brand alignment, messaging alignment person.
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00:02:56.159I love to make sure everybody, you know, has the same talking points and is very succinct in how they're communicating, both internally and externally.
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00:03:01.840And so for me, uh I certainly understand the value firsthand of communication.
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00:03:03.439And that's that's really for me.
00:03:03.439 -->
00:03:08.560I've been in practice now on my own for about two years now.
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00:03:12.479Prior to that, I spent about 13 years really in the boardroom.
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00:03:19.439Every, every job, every part of my career before that, I found myself in a boardroom.
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00:03:21.039And I know that's so odd.
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00:03:44.080Even my very first job, full-time job at 21, right outside college, you know, I was sitting, you know, in the boardroom making uh very important decisions and weighing my opinion against everyone else's on policy that impacted almost two million people or you know, making financial decisions on a company that impacted, you know, folks' rates, you know, it was with the regulated utility.
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00:03:46.639So, you know, I've always been in the boardroom.
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00:03:48.159So I don't know what that says about me.
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00:03:52.240That I every role that I've ever had, I've been in that decision-making chamber.
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00:03:57.120And I think for me, you know, folks often say, well, why are why why are you good at it?
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00:03:58.960I'm very good at it, I will tell you.
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00:04:03.680But I think for me, I'm a really good observer.
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00:04:13.599And I think as a strong communication practitioner, a public relations practitioner, you know, hear me when I say that, a practitioner.
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00:04:14.879And what does that mean?
00:04:14.879 -->
00:04:16.160We practice.
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00:04:22.240And so I think within our field, within communications, within PR, you have to practice to get better.
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00:04:42.240And so I'm grateful for all the experience because without experience, without crisis, without, you know, some form of an external or an internal issue that backfired that had to be worked through with proper, you know, communication tactics and messaging, I wouldn't be as great at my job and working with my clients as I am.
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00:04:44.319And so for that, I'm very grateful.
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00:04:46.319And yeah, I love what we do.
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00:04:48.319I think what we do is so impactful.
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00:04:54.240And I think I read an article just not too long ago, probably from one of my periodicals.
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00:05:14.079Obviously, I'm biased, and I think you are too, that, you know, the value of a communications team and the value of, you know, even if you are a very small nonprofit or very small, you know, membership association to the largest of corporations and businesses, having someone dedicated to your communications.
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00:05:26.480And it's just such a powerful position and such an important piece of, you know, I think culture and everything that goes on in and outside of your business or your organization.
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00:05:27.519Yeah, I love it.
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00:05:28.720Bradley, thank you so much.
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00:05:32.959I've written some notes down because there's four things that you said there that really align with me.
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00:05:35.600And of course, it's my podcast, so it's all about me.
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00:05:36.959No, but also I'd like to.
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00:05:37.680That's perfect.
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00:05:38.959Perfect it Miss Perfect.
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00:05:42.720I'd also like to just um translate for you.
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00:05:46.720So the fall in America is autumn here in the UK.
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00:05:49.600So just for anyone who's listening, what is the fall?
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00:05:54.959I'm sure most people know because we have lots of American TV, but just in case, I'll just clarify that.
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00:06:03.439Now you mentioned four things like that I would uh like to pick up uh with you today, and and more as our conversation goes on.
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00:06:19.040First of all, uh the one about trust, and we'll talk about trust because I uh uh love talking about trust and how we actually get that, because uh it's not something that just happens overnight, it's something I believe is one of the hardest things we have to get and the easiest things in the world to lose.
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00:06:20.240So we'll talk about that.
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00:06:32.800Talk about aligning and how how so important collaboration and alignment is if you want to be successful in any conversation, in any negotiation, I hasten to add.
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00:06:42.399I've put a little caveat in there from boardroom to kitchen table on what that might look like and how have you how can we use your skills on a day-to-day basis?
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00:06:46.639And that observing, being the observer and practicing, that was it.
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00:06:47.839That was my fourth one.
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00:06:52.879I'd love to know how you practice because people always say to me, Well, Nick, how do I practice?
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00:07:03.199And especially when I was teaching negotiation, a lot of people would say, but we're not going to be coming across people who are suicidal or holding people kidnap on a day-to-day basis.
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00:07:08.079And I said, Yes, but you can definitely practice those skills on the day-to-day interaction.
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00:07:09.279So we'll talk all about that.
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00:07:11.120So let's start with trust.
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00:07:14.639What does trust mean to you and how do we get it?
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00:07:22.720Wow, that's and I just talked about this last week, how important trust is, especially in this environment.
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00:07:31.040You know, I think there are so many fragmented, I hate to say it, but there's so many fragmented media channels.
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00:07:39.040There's so many fragmented, you know, social media messages, and there's so much on top of that, there's so much information coming at us.
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00:07:50.879And so really understanding, you know, who the source is, I think, a lot of times, and understanding, you know, what they're putting out and and just understanding it.
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00:07:56.399And I've always been a really big person on I take in all of the news, right?
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00:08:01.920I take in all political, you know, elements of the news.
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00:08:06.959And I'm a very, you know, research-based, fact-based, educated person.
00:08:06.959 -->
00:08:09.040Um, so for me, I do like to take it.
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00:08:11.839And I think it's important um for perspective.
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00:08:17.600And, you know, I'm gonna throw this trust question to my stakeholder engagement sort of messaging.
00:08:17.600 -->
00:08:28.959And when when I work with clients on stakeholder engagement, and really, you know, a stakeholder is anyone that has sort of influence over your organization or business.
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00:08:34.080So anybody with the vested interest, a board member, an employee, and your employees are your biggest advocate.
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00:08:41.440So your employees should be your most trusted advocates that you have, customers, constituents if you're in a government field.
00:08:41.440 -->
00:08:44.559But really, you know, you have to have their trust.
00:08:44.559 -->
00:08:50.799And then expanding that trust outside of their really becomes, you know, almost like the rule of sales.
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00:08:52.720I always say that, like the rule of seven.
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00:09:06.799You have to have that touch point, you have to communicate to them, you know, maybe the same message, but in a little bit of a different way, you know, up to seven times before they start to be influenced by what you're saying or start to trust what you're saying.
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00:09:21.759And I think, you know, especially, and to your point with negotiation, you know, your negotiation teaching and and practicing the crisis or practicing, you know, a really terrible situation that you have to work your way through, you don't always know what that's gonna be.
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00:09:41.120But I can say for any organization or business, gaining the trust of your stakeholders, customers, constituents, vendors, whomever it is, you can garner so much trust during a terrible time or during a crisis because you're looking to someone, and what do you want?
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00:09:44.159You want to know the truth, you want to know that they've done the right thing.
00:09:44.159 -->
00:09:50.080You know, if there's been an issue, and I know I work, I speak from experience working for a regulated utility.
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00:10:08.080You know, there were often times where it was a water utility and we would have potential upstream issues and potential, you know, contaminants in this the source water that would go ultimately into the drinking water treatment plant that would go back out into the system for customers.
00:10:08.080 -->
00:10:18.799And I remember there were so many instances where it's like we have to be truthful because we need this is a matter of public health, right?
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00:10:20.559Like this is serious.
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00:10:37.519So getting that trust and being honest, you know, and that was the thing, you know, it it may have been a really bad situation, but we had to, in our own way, say, this is what it is, you know, and I think sometimes less is more when you're trying to garner trust.
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00:10:42.480People don't really need, you know, a big flowery story or a big fluffy excuse.
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00:10:52.399They really just want that transparency and they want that accountability if it's something that, you know, unfortunately or fortunately, it is what it is, um has happened.
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00:11:03.519I think, you know, on the trust factor, they really just want to know the truth and they want to know that you're gonna, you know, make it right or that you're gonna communicate to them how you're going to get to a solution.
00:11:03.519 -->
00:11:14.159And I think, you know, in a crisis is where you can really garner a lot of trust from not only, you know, your constituents, your customers, your, you know, stakeholders, but also from the public.
00:11:14.159 -->
00:11:20.240I think the public watches during a crisis and they really want to know, you know, are they being truthful and are they doing what's right?
00:11:20.240 -->
00:11:29.840And if if you are truthful and you're transparent, you're doing what's right, you know, you can really, really elevate your trustworthiness, I believe, as an organization.
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00:11:30.480Yeah.
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00:11:49.519And that's that's really interesting because I'm hearing a lot over here in the UK about how people are fed up now of excuses and they want people to be honest with them, and they want to be able to find someone that they can trust, whether that's in a big organization or politics, and around building that.
00:11:49.519 -->
00:11:53.120So, yeah, so that that message about that truth and that honesty.
00:11:53.120 -->
00:11:59.519And I think that even breaks down to those kitchen table conversations in in personal life.
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00:12:02.000Sometimes they're really difficult and challenging.
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00:12:07.679But I have found personally, the more honest we are, the better conversations that we have.
00:12:09.360 -->
00:12:19.440And I think to that point, and I'll I'll expand on that, I think you know, that's the importance of you say the kitchen, the kitchen table conversation.
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00:12:20.159And I love that.
00:12:20.159 -->
00:12:22.799I used to work in politics.
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00:12:30.399I did a little stint in politics, and when I was working in that, we would have kitchen cabinets as part of the campaign.
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00:12:30.639Yeah.
00:12:30.639 -->
00:12:34.799And it it quite literally was just almost like a focus group.
00:12:34.799 -->
00:12:37.679It was people from all different political parties.
00:12:37.679 -->
00:12:40.960We had people from all across the spectrum.
00:12:40.960 -->
00:12:43.360We had people from all different perspectives.
00:12:43.360 -->
00:12:46.080You know, there were some folks who were married who had children.
00:12:46.080 -->
00:12:48.799There were some folks who had no children and weren't married.
00:12:48.799 -->
00:12:58.240There were some folks who were, you know, just in different situations, different backgrounds, you know, of different races, of different socioeconomics.
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00:13:13.759And I think that really helped us to not only develop, you know, when we're talking about communication and having that kitchen cabinet, is developing and shaping that message and understanding how it is that we need to communicate with folks externally.
00:13:13.759 -->
00:13:34.799And so I love to hear you say that about, you know, you know, from the boardroom to the kitchen table or to the kitchen cabinet, as I would say, and really the importance of having those different perspectives weighing into the conversation about communicating and, you know, our messages and the way that we are putting things out there.
00:13:34.799 -->
00:13:38.399Because, you know, I worked for corporate America for a long time.
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00:13:42.080And I can tell you corporate America is where things go to die sometimes.
00:13:42.080 -->
00:13:43.600It's where plans go to die.
00:13:43.600 -->
00:13:54.799And I can't tell you the number of times we spent hundreds of thousands of dollars and thousands of hours of everyone's time on a strategy or a plan executing.
00:13:54.799 -->
00:13:58.879And then we'd be midair and we just abandon the plane.
00:13:58.879 -->
00:14:05.200Like, well, we didn't do the work on the front end and we didn't understand that that was gonna get that kind of backlash.
00:14:05.200 -->
00:14:13.679And we didn't do a focus group or bring people around the table to ask them what they thought of, you know, this approach or the way that we were gonna roll this out, and it's backfired now.
00:14:13.679 -->
00:14:18.080So now we've wasted all this time and all this money, and we're gonna go back to the drawing board.
00:14:18.080 -->
00:14:34.240So I think sometimes it's important to start with those fundamentals, you know, as you're developing a communications plan or developing messaging, key messaging, or you know, a campaign, even like a public relations campaign that you run as a communicator.
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00:14:40.240I mean something that you want to get across to your customers or to anyone you're dealing with in the public.
00:14:41.360 -->
00:14:54.000Having different perspectives for me is so is so key and being able to see the world from other people's perspectives because at the end of the day, I am a white, middle-aged, middle class woman, and that's my perspective of the world.
00:14:54.000 -->
00:14:58.639I like to think I'm pretty broad-minded and that I'll seek out opinions.
00:14:58.639 -->
00:15:05.679Yeah, having somebody else's perspective or standing in their shoes just for a period of time and going, hang on a sec, what does this look like?
00:15:05.679 -->
00:15:08.399We'll start that backlash at the beginning.
00:15:08.399 -->
00:15:10.399So, yeah, so thank you for sharing that.
00:15:10.399 -->
00:15:13.759I think that segues nicely into alignment.
00:15:13.759 -->
00:15:16.399How do we bring people into alignment?
00:15:16.399 -->
00:15:19.360How do we get their collaboration when we're going forward?
00:15:19.360 -->
00:15:25.919And you've already mentioned that focus group, which which is brilliant around the kitchen cabinet kitchen tables.
00:15:25.919 -->
00:15:27.679Uh, what else can people do?
00:15:27.679 -->
00:15:32.799And again, this is like for you can do this in your family, you can do it in a small business, a big business.
00:15:32.799 -->
00:15:36.960What else can people do to align and get collaboration?
00:15:37.679 -->
00:15:41.279I think we see it a lot, especially with the big brands.
00:15:41.279 -->
00:15:47.759You know, I've I follow, you know, all the the campaigns that the big brands are running and all the initiatives that they have coming out.
00:15:47.759 -->
00:15:55.279And I think you're seeing, you know, as you mentioned, the alignment, I think you're seeing as much alignment as you are collaboration.
00:15:55.279 -->
00:15:58.480And I say that collaboration really is the new currency.
00:15:58.480 -->
00:16:18.320And I think, you know, stepping back, especially if you're a small organisation or a small nonprofit or, you know, whatever it may be that you don't have, you know, as many followers or as much of a marketing budget or as much of an advertising budget to, you know, properly communicate a key message or to push something out externally.
00:16:18.320 -->
00:16:30.720So it may be that you look to someone and say, oh, well, we're aligned in, you know, these goals and we're aligned on this issue, and we're aligned, you know, on having this common goal.
00:16:30.720 -->
00:16:48.159So I think sometimes it's understanding, you know, how you can partner and the importance, especially I think in this environment, you know, you you again, we share our social media channels and our reach, and you know, we can maybe share those marketing budgets and advertising budgets, but being aligned is so important.
00:16:48.159 -->
00:16:57.759And I say as much for you know our communication tacs being aligned because you do have different audiences.
00:16:57.759 -->
00:17:12.480You can't put together, you know, one set of talking points and you can't put together one communication, external communication plan or even internal communication plan without understanding that you have different audiences that you have to communicate differently to.
00:17:12.480 -->
00:17:19.200So I think that awareness of being aligned with you know what you're developing in terms of your messaging.
00:17:19.200 -->
00:17:28.160And, you know, I think I always like to remind folks before you're aligning to make sure you know who you are and to really know where you're going.
00:17:28.160 -->
00:17:39.200And I think, you know, I have I'll get calls, I'm sure you can relate to to getting calls of people who are like, you know, I need this done now.
00:17:39.200 -->
00:17:41.599I need this done by next week.
00:17:41.599 -->
00:17:50.640I'm like, you're asking me to make you a thought leader, or you're asking me to turn your company's entire reputation around in a week.
00:17:50.640 -->
00:17:59.440We got we got six months to a year minimum before we're even starting to tread water on that, right?
00:17:59.440 -->
00:18:08.079And my point with that is I think you know, at that point, I like to take a step back and say, okay, who are we, first of all.
00:18:08.079 -->
00:18:14.319And I think that's something that organisations I think lose sight of a little bit.
00:18:14.319 -->
00:18:17.759Who they are, what they do, where they're going.
00:18:17.759 -->
00:18:18.640I think that's it.
00:18:18.640 -->
00:18:24.160And you know, then that gets into a whole different conversation about, you know, the vision of the organization.
00:18:24.160 -->
00:18:29.680And your mission is so important because, you know, your vision is where you're going long term.
00:18:29.680 -->
00:18:31.039That's guiding you.
00:18:31.039 -->
00:18:32.960But your mission is what you're doing every day.
00:18:32.960 -->
00:18:38.400It's what you're communicating every day, it's how you're communicating every day to achieve that vision.
00:18:38.400 -->
00:18:56.720So I think I know that sounds really elementary and kind of you know, low-lying fruit opportunity, but it's so important because that then gives you the ability to say, and then you get into that my one of my favorite things, you then get into the positioning and the messaging piece where it's like, who are we?
00:18:56.720 -->
00:18:58.240What are we known for?
00:18:58.240 -->
00:19:00.559Well, what are we saying externally?
00:19:00.559 -->
00:19:06.079Or more importantly, internally to our board members or our employees.
00:19:06.079 -->
00:19:15.680So I think that even broaches a more important sort of moment of pause to say, wait a minute, who are we?
00:19:15.680 -->
00:19:20.400And I think back to my point with getting those calls from clients who are like, all right, I need you to do this next week.
00:19:20.400 -->
00:19:45.359I'm like, no, I need like a solid couple of months myself to learn and intake and understand how you're currently doing things because, you know, oftentimes that for whatever reason, Nicky, and I know we're biased, but for whatever reason, you know, it feels like that communication piece is often, unfortunately, it's it's often, you know, seems second tier.
00:19:45.359 -->
00:19:55.680It doesn't seem business critical to a lot of organizations, and seems like, quite frankly, that's the area that's, you know, impacted most when there's a budget cut or a push to decide.
00:19:55.680 -->
00:19:58.079And, you know, I just I read a lot.
00:19:58.079 -->
00:20:06.880Obviously, I've told you I've read two or three things since we started recording, but I read something from PRSA, I'm a member of the Public Relations Society of America.
00:20:06.880 -->
00:20:19.119And a couple weeks ago, they just put out a periodical about how so there's such an increase, and so many new CEOs of companies are from the communication and public relations field.
00:20:19.119 -->
00:20:25.200And I think that's so important, not only for us to hear, but to understand why.
00:20:25.200 -->
00:20:26.319And why is that?
00:20:26.319 -->
00:20:31.680Well, you think about it, to my point of being the sponge, and my mom always said this: you have two ears and one mouth.
00:20:31.680 -->
00:20:34.000You should listen twice as much as you're speaking.
00:20:34.000 -->
00:20:44.480And I think that goes back to I've always been, and I learned this, I studied, I was an understudy in my very first job to a very dynamic communications director.
00:20:44.480 -->
00:20:47.920She was outstanding, just wonderful.
00:20:47.920 -->
00:20:52.960No stone left unturned, the way she thought about everything at all times.
00:20:52.960 -->
00:21:00.960And that really left an impact on me because I now think like that and try to leave no stone unturned when I'm developing something.
00:21:00.960 -->
00:21:10.160But I think, you know, being that sponge and really understanding, and you have to, you do have to have a different kind of mind to be that sponge, right?
00:21:10.160 -->
00:21:23.359Because you're sitting there hearing from the finance team, you're hearing from the legal team, you're hearing from HR, you're hearing from the president or CEO, and then at the end of the meeting or the conversation in the boardroom, everybody looks at you.
00:21:23.359 -->
00:21:25.440Well, Bradley, what do you think?
00:21:25.440 -->
00:21:33.039Well, you know, and then you speak very objectively based on what you just heard.
00:21:33.039 -->
00:21:44.960You know, I think that's a really missed opportunity if we're not communicating this externally, and I think we need to bring this person and this person together to work on this if we're going to be executing on this piece of the plan.
00:21:44.960 -->
00:21:50.880And I think we need to make sure from a, you know, liability perspective, we're watching this and we can't say this.
00:21:50.880 -->
00:21:53.200So I think having that mind.
00:21:53.200 -->
00:21:56.960And you know, people ask me that how do you become a strategic advisor?
00:21:56.960 -->
00:21:58.640How do you just what is that?
00:21:58.640 -->
00:21:59.759How do you, well.
00:21:59.759 -->
00:22:04.799Well, back to the trust factor, I think you have to garner that trust from people.
00:22:04.799 -->
00:22:09.279And I'll never forget my very first, I worked for the head of the State Department.
00:22:09.279 -->
00:22:13.519It was my very first job here in the United States working under her.
00:22:13.519 -->
00:22:24.319And it was such a great experience because I was in those high-level meetings and hearing all of the things and, you know, being asked to step up and weigh in on decisions.
00:22:24.319 -->
00:22:29.599And I'll never forget I was so scared in the beginning that I often would just be like, well, whatever you think.
00:22:29.599 -->
00:22:33.759Well, whatever you whatever you say, I agree with you.
00:22:33.759 -->
00:22:35.440And I'll never forget she pulled me.
00:22:35.440 -->
00:22:38.160I was so young and so inexperienced at the time.
00:22:38.160 -->
00:22:50.720She pulls me after one of those senior staff meetings, and she said, You do understand when I ask you for your opinion and I ask you what you think, I want the truth from you based on your perspective.
00:22:50.720 -->
00:22:52.640There's a reason I'm asking you.
00:22:52.640 -->
00:22:54.559So don't be another yes man.
00:22:54.559 -->
00:22:56.000And she walked off.
00:22:56.000 -->
00:23:01.519And I'll never forget just like this I empowered almost.
00:23:01.519 -->
00:23:07.039Like I just felt empowered at that point, you know, to be like, wow, people are asking.
00:23:07.039 -->
00:23:12.079You're taking the time and intentionally asking me a question.
00:23:12.079 -->
00:23:19.440So I should answer it based on the facts, based on what education I have.
00:23:19.440 -->
00:23:23.440Or if I don't know how to answer it, I should say, you know, I'm not sure.
00:23:23.440 -->
00:23:31.920I have to learn more about it before I weigh in, or I'd really like to study more on this, or I'd really like to have a meeting or a conversation with this person before I give you that answer.
00:23:31.920 -->
00:23:44.880But I think it really is part of that being a good solid, trusted strategic advisor, you know, to a senior team or to a company or an organization, CEO, president.
00:23:44.880 -->
00:23:52.640You really have to have that innate ability to just speak very truthfully, very quickly.
00:23:52.640 -->
00:23:58.559And, you know, again, if the the worst thing to do is answer a question that you don't know the answer to.
00:23:58.559 -->
00:24:00.480I learned that very early in my career too.
00:24:00.480 -->
00:24:03.599If you don't know something, it's okay to say, Nicky, I'm not sure.
00:24:03.599 -->
00:24:11.839I will look into it and get back to you, versus me, you know, maybe saying something that's not truthful and then what?
00:24:11.839 -->
00:24:14.640I then risk my trust with you.
00:24:14.640 -->
00:24:19.759And that's again, it takes a lifetime to build and a moment to break.
00:24:19.759 -->
00:24:22.400And so it's okay to not know.
00:24:22.400 -->
00:24:25.680It's okay to say I'm not sure, or I'll find out.
00:24:25.680 -->
00:24:36.079Or so I think that's those are also very important lessons for people in communications to to know that, you know, you don't always have to have the answers, but you can find them out, you know, and it's okay to say that.
00:24:36.079 -->
00:24:40.160It's okay to say, you know, I'll I'll look into it and get back to you when I can.
00:24:40.480 -->
00:24:44.079Yeah, I love that because I think a lot of leaders do think we should have all the answers.
00:24:44.079 -->
00:24:49.519And then there's that fear of looking stupid in front of other people, or they expect me to have all the answers.
00:24:49.519 -->
00:24:50.640But you're quite right, they don't.
00:24:50.640 -->
00:24:56.480We're we're all fallible, we're all human beings, and that honest upfrontness goes a long way to keeping that trust.
00:24:56.480 -->
00:25:05.920And there's a something else you mentioned right at the very beginning there, where you were talking about communication is the first thing to go when there are, for example, cutbacks in an organization.
00:25:05.920 -->
00:25:10.640I believe that communication is probably the first thing to go in any sort of relationship.
00:25:10.640 -->
00:25:17.119But you know, even if you're talking to your family or your friends, things start to get heated, that communication breakdown.
00:25:17.119 -->
00:25:30.799And often we stay in that conflict rather than somebody just going, hang on a sec, let me just, as your mum said, two ears, one mouth, let me just listen, let me just hear what the other person's saying, let me understand what's really going on here.
00:25:30.799 -->
00:25:32.559So thank you for that, Bradley.
00:25:32.559 -->
00:25:38.799And that when we you you sound like you're a really good observer, and your mentor sounds an amazing.
00:25:38.799 -->
00:25:42.240I wish everybody had a great mentor like you do.
00:25:42.240 -->
00:25:50.319I was lucky enough to have one, somebody that really empowered me, that listened to me, that saw something in me that took me to the next level of my life.
00:25:50.319 -->
00:25:52.559So, yeah, she sounds like an amazing woman.
00:25:52.559 -->
00:26:00.160Let's talk about observing and how key and important that is in life in general, but especially in communication.
00:26:01.440 -->
00:26:04.640Well, I go back to, you know, being that sponge.
00:26:04.640 -->
00:26:09.279And a friend of mine worked, we worked alongside each other in government.
00:26:09.279 -->
00:26:16.480And I'll never forget one of her, one of her, the elected officials she worked for, was in the United States Senate.
00:26:16.480 -->
00:26:24.960He was a powerhouse and he just believed in understanding and knowing everything before he made a decision.
00:26:24.960 -->
00:26:26.160And I appreciate that.
00:26:26.160 -->
00:26:36.160Even though he was a political figure, elected to a position on, you know, a certain political party, he still wanted to make sure he was making that right decision.
00:26:36.160 -->
00:26:38.400And I'll never forget one thing he told her.
00:26:38.400 -->
00:26:41.839Be the dirt in all situations, be the dirt.
00:26:41.839 -->
00:26:42.880And what does that mean?
00:26:42.880 -->
00:26:54.160Get in every crack and crevice, get everywhere you can and learn all that you can before you speak, before you make a position, before you put out a statement.
00:26:54.160 -->
00:27:01.440And I thought for me, that was also another, those little one-liners sometimes are so impactful because it makes you pause.
00:27:01.440 -->
00:27:17.200And I think being that observer, you know, again, you to me, the most I always find the most intriguing, often the most intelligent people in the room are those who aren't speaking.
00:27:17.200 -->
00:27:25.519You know, and I think sometimes when you over-communicate or you speak too much, I think sometimes it's like, all right, well, it gets lost.
00:27:25.519 -->
00:27:32.480And so being that observer is so important and being that sponge because you you do soak in all that information.
00:27:32.480 -->
00:27:37.440And I'm, as you know me well enough by now, I'm a talker.
00:27:37.440 -->
00:27:38.720I talk a lot.
00:27:38.720 -->
00:27:46.319But professionally, I do have that innate ability to turn that I talk all the time off and just observe.
00:27:46.319 -->
00:27:47.759And I get super quiet.
00:27:47.759 -->
00:27:49.680And there'll be oftentimes situations.
00:27:49.680 -->
00:27:58.319I started working with a new energy client last year, and it was quite frankly, it was an industry and an area of the industry that I had never been exposed to.
00:27:58.319 -->
00:28:00.880So I had a million questions.
00:28:00.880 -->
00:28:09.119And I remember going out for a few days site visit to a plant and going out to, you know, another facility and meeting with some of the folks on staff.
00:28:09.119 -->
00:28:10.319I was silent.
00:28:10.319 -->
00:28:13.519I mean, to the point where one of my project partners was like, Are you okay?
00:28:13.519 -->
00:28:15.359And I'm like, I'm great.
00:28:15.359 -->
00:28:25.279I'm like, I will regurgitate to you in a manner to which is a little bit crazy, everything that I think and everything that I know and everything that's missing.
00:28:25.279 -->
00:28:36.880And I think that's just, again, that's I think a very special skill and and one that you can hone, you know, that is one that you can speak less, you can listen more, you can research.
00:28:36.880 -->
00:28:38.799But I think that's so important.
00:28:38.799 -->
00:28:51.119And and not always, I never give, you know, like I said, when a potential client or, you know, a project comes up where I'm asked to run to the fire and help mitigate an an issue or a crisis.
00:28:51.119 -->
00:29:04.960I'm very, very, very cognizant to weigh in immediately and like to, I just personally like to step away and be by myself and kind of understand, you know, all the way around.
00:29:04.960 -->
00:29:09.359I like a 360 complete view of everything.
00:29:09.359 -->
00:29:13.200I like to weigh how people are gonna perceive the message.
00:29:13.200 -->
00:29:28.559I like to weigh what's the impact internally, how much is this gonna cost the organization or the business, what's the potential risk to the business from a legal standpoint, you know, is there a liability that we can be in potential litigation?
00:29:28.559 -->
00:29:32.160You know, so you gotta it again, it's practice.
00:29:32.160 -->
00:29:35.119You know, it's just being in those situations.
00:29:35.119 -->
00:29:53.519And, you know, when you're when you're sued a few times as a corporation or, you know, you're in some legal battles, you know, that doesn't, that's not something that's gonna come up for everybody, especially if you're working in a nonprofit or working for a small boutique, you know, communication firm or whatever, that's not gonna pop up.
00:29:53.519 -->
00:30:05.440But I think the more you can put yourself out there, and I challenge you, and this is one thing that I've done in my practice, you know, I work mainly with kind of a lot of different entities.
00:30:05.440 -->
00:30:13.759I work with some small companies, I work with a regulated utility, work with a large energy provider company.
00:30:13.759 -->
00:30:24.720And I think one of the things that is common across the board is just making sure that everyone, you know, I always like to make sure everyone, like I said, singing from the same hymnal.
00:30:24.720 -->
00:30:27.119Everybody's messaging is cohesive.
00:30:27.119 -->
00:30:30.880Everything that we're saying across the board is aligned.
00:30:30.880 -->
00:30:42.000And so for me, that's always one of the things that I try to make sure, no matter what I'm hired for, that I go back to the beginning and say, okay, do you all have your vision and do you have your mission?
00:30:42.000 -->
00:30:43.599And do you know where you're going?
00:30:43.599 -->
00:30:45.680Because if you don't, that's a problem.
00:30:45.680 -->
00:30:49.599You know, and I think that's sometimes where people get a little bit off kilter.
00:30:49.599 -->
00:31:05.680And so I think it's important that that folks really know where it is they're going and and what they're doing, because, you know, it it does and to your point with the communication in personal settings too, you know, what happens if we don't communicate?
00:31:05.680 -->
00:31:07.680I think our minds take over.
00:31:07.680 -->
00:31:11.440I think our minds fabricate things maybe that aren't true.
00:31:11.440 -->
00:31:43.359And I think as a constituent or a customer of company or a constituent of an elected official or of a government agency, if we're not hearing and we're not being communicated to, and that was one of the things that I learned working as a crisis manager for the large utility, was we may not have anything of substance to say, but having that regular cadence of communication and saying, as of 12 o'clock p.m., this is what we know.
00:31:43.359 -->
00:31:50.079I can commit to giving you an update if there is one at 3 o'clock p.m.
00:31:50.079 -->
00:31:53.599But there may still be no updates at that point.
00:31:53.599 -->
00:31:57.519But I'm at least communicating, you at least know that you will hear from me.
00:31:57.519 -->
00:32:17.680And I think that sometimes is so important in that transparency and trust building, you know, from a trust-building component that you are kind of easing people's minds and saying, okay, you know, if it's something that's impacting, for example, my drinking water, I definitely want to know that you're going to be communicating to me again.
00:32:17.680 -->
00:32:25.599And, you know, again, it may be nothing has changed or we're in the same posture, but I think just having that consistent communication is so important.
00:32:25.920 -->
00:32:27.440Yeah, I totally agree.
00:32:27.440 -->
00:32:37.279And as you said, from big organisations to little organisations, it's about communicating with your external and internal stakeholders, including your team, because you're right.
00:32:37.279 -->
00:32:46.319If as human beings, if we don't know something, we make it up and then we go and find somebody who we know thinks the same way about us, and we'll have a conversation with them.
00:32:46.319 -->
00:32:50.160And before we know it, the thing that wasn't true becomes the truth.
00:32:50.160 -->
00:32:52.720And people's assumptions are not facts.
00:32:52.720 -->
00:33:01.599And I think often that we have to press the big pause button and go, what are my assumptions based on my beliefs and what is true?
00:33:01.599 -->
00:33:12.799And certainly in the world of hostage and crisis negotiation, which sounds very much like similar to the things that you have done around that, is you have to work in facts and and not assumptions.
00:33:12.799 -->
00:33:13.359So lovely.
00:33:13.359 -->
00:33:13.920I love that.
00:33:13.920 -->
00:33:14.400Thank you.
00:33:14.400 -->
00:33:16.559And then the last one is practicing.
00:33:16.559 -->
00:33:22.319How can people practice their communication skills on a day-to-day basis?
00:33:24.160 -->
00:33:29.359No, this is something that I've in my own practice started to explore.
00:33:29.359 -->
00:33:36.400You know, like I said, I work mainly in in a pretty diverse background when it comes to my clientele.
00:33:36.400 -->
00:33:41.279And the work is pretty much all the same, but is also a little different.
00:33:41.279 -->
00:33:47.039One thing that I have done and I challenge everyone else to do is really started to look.
00:33:47.039 -->
00:33:57.200Now I don't have the time for this, but I'm going to create the time for this, but looking for opportunities for some pro bono work or volunteer work.
00:33:57.200 -->
00:34:12.320And the reason that I say that is it not only gives me those skills, allows me to sharpen those skills, but it also opens me up possibly for a client or two down the road, right?
00:34:12.320 -->
00:34:24.079I mean, I just I'm I'm going through this right now in my practice of like, and I just said this to my friend, and sorry, it is what it is, but I just said to a friend of mine, we talk pretty often, talk shop a lot.
00:34:24.079 -->
00:34:26.559And do you know what talk shop means?
00:34:26.800 -->
00:34:27.119Yes.
00:34:27.599 -->
00:34:27.840Okay.
00:34:27.840 -->
00:34:36.239So I'm like, so talk business, you know, because I'm like, we we'll just shoot, you know, around some different ideas and initiatives and plans.
00:34:36.239 -->
00:34:39.119And I was like, man, I have to be honest with you.
00:34:39.119 -->
00:34:48.559I was like, I need a crisis to manage, you know, like or or a challenge, not even a crisis to manage, but I'm so good at problem solving.
00:34:48.559 -->
00:34:52.320And, you know, I love to be hit with the project.
00:34:52.320 -->
00:35:06.239And I love when someone says, we've tried it a million times and it's not worked, or we've done this before and it didn't go anywhere, or so-and-so was here and we tried that and it wasn't successful.
00:35:06.239 -->
00:35:11.920Well, then let's try it again because they're not here anymore and I'm here and I want to take it on.
00:35:11.920 -->
00:35:29.920So I think any opportunity you have in terms of practicing, you know, taking on, you know, something small, maybe it's for a nonprofit, and you put together a communications plan for them or a crisis mitigation plan for maybe their field or whatever.
00:35:29.920 -->
00:35:37.440But I think just practicing, you know, I always, as a from a personal practicing of communications, I have to be really transparent with you.
00:35:37.440 -->
00:35:46.960And I'll be honest, if you and I were closer friends and we texted often, I might go a couple of days without responding to your texts.
00:35:46.960 -->
00:35:56.480You get so many, and it's like I look at what's business critical, and if it's a client or if it's something, if it's somebody like one off, they know me well enough that can wait.
00:35:56.480 -->
00:36:02.559But I always try to make sure, although I'm a hypocrite sometimes, so I'm speaking out both sides of my mouth right now.
00:36:02.559 -->
00:36:07.039I think it's a good practice to always try to close the loop with people.
00:36:07.039 -->
00:36:10.719And so, you know, just be and be direct.
00:36:10.719 -->
00:36:12.559Be direct with your message.
00:36:12.559 -->
00:36:17.519You know, I think that's one thing I've learned, especially as I communicate so much throughout the day.
00:36:17.519 -->
00:36:19.119You know, I have seven clients.
00:36:19.119 -->
00:36:22.719I never know which one of them is gonna call me with a crisis.
00:36:22.719 -->
00:36:28.320You know, I can pretty much predict the workload, I can pretty much predict what my weeks are gonna look like.
00:36:28.320 -->
00:36:34.480And I'm working on that today for this week and even looking at the month as a whole, since we have a new month now.
00:36:34.480 -->
00:36:39.199But I still don't know what's gonna be on the other side of that phone when I answer it.
00:36:39.199 -->
00:36:41.119I still don't know what that text is gonna be.
00:36:41.119 -->
00:36:44.559So being prepared, right?
00:36:44.559 -->
00:36:47.840But I think it's always a good, you know, close the loop, you know.
00:36:47.840 -->
00:36:49.679Hey, are we still meeting at this time?
00:36:49.679 -->
00:36:50.960Yeah, sounds good.
00:36:50.960 -->
00:37:00.880Or but but being direct, you know, nobody wants, and I especially now with having so many different projects and clients moving, you know, I don't have time to be fluffy and flowery.
00:37:00.880 -->
00:37:04.239And I used to have that, you know, good morning, Nicky.
00:37:04.239 -->
00:37:05.440Happy Tuesday.
00:37:05.440 -->
00:37:07.039I hope all is well with you.
00:37:07.039 -->
00:37:08.239What have you been up to?
00:37:08.239 -->
00:37:08.639No.
00:37:08.639 -->
00:37:12.639I'm like, hey, Nicky, are we still on for
11:30 a.m.?
00:37:12.639 -->
00:37:15.039Looking forward to it, period.
00:37:15.039 -->
00:37:20.239So I think just being direct and and making sure that you do close those loops with people.
00:37:20.239 -->
00:37:23.840Because again, you leave them opened and it's like, did I close this?
00:37:23.840 -->
00:37:25.280Did I complete the task?
00:37:25.280 -->
00:37:28.079Did I achieve what was needed to be achieved?
00:37:28.079 -->
00:37:32.880So um I think that's that's really important when it comes to practicing communication.
00:37:33.280 -->
00:37:33.519Great.
00:37:33.519 -->
00:37:34.800Bradley, thank you so much.
00:37:34.800 -->
00:37:46.239There's so much in there for those people that will be listening back to this, so many tips that you've given around how you can improve communication within your organisation, within your business, just within your life.
00:37:46.239 -->
00:37:51.440Is there anything else that you would like to cover before we draw the conversation to a close?
00:37:52.639 -->
00:37:54.559Yeah, we've had a good conversation.
00:37:54.559 -->
00:37:59.920I know, I think just don't lose sight of how important we are.
00:37:59.920 -->
00:38:13.280And I think sometimes it's easy, like I said, for us to us communication people to, you know, go to the wayside or, you know, again, be among the first cut or left out of the rooms.
00:38:13.280 -->
00:38:25.199But, you know, I think it's important to know that, and one thing that I remember distinctly from corporate America and really every job that I ever had is everybody was always looking for the communications person.
00:38:25.199 -->
00:38:27.679Where is where's Bradley?
00:38:27.679 -->
00:38:33.280I need to ask him about this job posting, HR, or you know, the legal team.
00:38:33.280 -->
00:38:38.400I need to ask Bradley about this cover letter we're sending to XYZ organisation.
00:38:38.400 -->
00:38:40.960Like you are pulled into everything.
00:38:40.960 -->
00:38:49.599And that's why I always say for communications people, we do fly in every lane or every department of a business or organisation.
00:38:49.599 -->
00:38:50.719Because why?
00:38:50.719 -->
00:39:15.599We have to have at least that fundamental understanding of what every single person is doing because there probably will be a time that we're gonna have to communicate about them either internally through some employee newsletter or spotlight segment or whatever, or externally if it's something that impacts, you know, customers or the community or the constituents of your agency or whatever, you know, organisation you represent.
00:39:15.599 -->
00:39:19.039So I think it's always important to give yourself grace.
00:39:19.039 -->
00:39:33.519And you know, I say puff up that chest and put your, if you wear heels, wear them higher and put that head up in the air because you know what, we're very important, we're very vital, and communication is I know it sounds so cliche, but communication is key.
00:39:33.519 -->
00:39:39.199And, you know, it goes back to how our minds perceive that communication.
00:39:39.199 -->
00:39:43.280And I don't really believe you can over-communicate.
00:39:43.280 -->
00:39:47.360I'm I'm one that likes to over-communicate often.
00:39:47.360 -->
00:39:51.039And I love, you know, that goes back to my very first job.
00:39:51.039 -->
00:39:57.920I love that, you know, you give so many, we're as communications people, we're so detail oriented.
00:39:57.920 -->
00:40:07.679And I love that about us, that you know, we don't just send you, you know, talking points, or we don't just send you, you know, a speech or cover letter about something.
00:40:07.679 -->
00:40:14.079No, we give you literally, this is the door that you, the door handle you need to pull when you go into the venue.
00:40:14.079 -->
00:40:18.960This is the stage you need to go up on the stage to the left and exit to the right.
00:40:18.960 -->
00:40:24.159You need to, you know, make sure you understand X, Y, and Z are in the audience and you recognize them.
00:40:24.159 -->
00:40:30.880So I think we just always take those two or three steps further, and that's what makes us so unique.
00:40:30.880 -->
00:40:35.920And and we're very integral part of any business or organization.
00:40:35.920 -->
00:40:46.960So again, I want to bolster everyone up and have that confidence as a very strong communicator that you are very needed and you matter, and and we're here to stay.
00:40:46.960 -->
00:40:48.079We are very vital.
00:40:48.079 -->
00:40:49.360And I think it's only growing.
00:40:49.360 -->
00:40:50.159I really do.
00:40:50.159 -->
00:41:05.519I think over the past especially few years, I've really seen an uptick in, you know, the the agencies and businesses that I work around that are adding a you know communications director or communications consultant on contract.
00:41:05.519 -->
00:41:11.920And I think folks are starting to finally realize how important and vital we are to business operations.
00:41:12.239 -->
00:41:12.639Lovely.
00:41:12.639 -->
00:41:13.920Thank you so much, Bradley.
00:41:13.920 -->
00:41:15.599Where can people find you?
00:41:16.000 -->
00:41:16.880You can find me.
00:41:16.880 -->
00:41:18.000I love LinkedIn.
00:41:18.000 -->
00:41:23.760So I'm on LinkedIn at Bradley Harris and then on my website, theBradleyHarris.com.
00:41:23.760 -->
00:41:26.000So I would love to connect with you.
00:41:26.000 -->
00:41:32.079And if I can be of support to you or bounce any ideas off of you, I love to talk all things communication.
00:41:32.079 -->
00:41:36.079So please uh feel free to reach out and be happy to connect.
00:41:36.480 -->
00:41:36.880Lovely.
00:41:36.880 -->
00:41:37.760Thank you, Bradley.
00:41:37.760 -->
00:41:39.440I've really enjoyed our conversation.
00:41:39.440 -->
00:41:47.119I've been sitting here reflecting on some of my times in the world of negotiation, and they just shadow along so beautiful.
00:41:47.119 -->
00:41:48.480So thank you so much for your time.
00:41:48.480 -->
00:41:49.360I really appreciate it.
00:41:49.360 -->
00:41:58.639We'll put all your links in the comments that will go with this podcast so you'll be able to find out about Bradley and uh visit his website.
00:42:00.639 -->
00:42:01.840Great being with you, Nicky.
00:42:01.840 -->
00:42:03.519I appreciate you and thanks so much.
00:42:04.320 -->
00:42:04.880Thank you.
00:42:04.880 -->
00:42:16.400If you have in any way been affected by today's podcast episode, there are numbers at the end of the transcript which you can contact.
