00:00:33
Speaker 1: And welcome back. You're listening to Let's Garden with Scott Burland. I'm here with John Butcher, CEO of Madison Tree Care and Landscape. And now we have Peggy Ann Montgomery on the line from Garden Media Group. And we're going to talk about common mistakes people make when planting their bulbs. Peggy Ann, how are you?
00:00:51
Speaker 2: I'm great this morning. How are you?
00:00:53
Speaker 1: I'm feeling pretty good. You're waking up, you know. It's a process.
00:00:59
Speaker 2: I hear that.
00:01:00
Speaker 1: You're calling from more or less the Philadelphia area, right?
00:01:05
Speaker 2: That's right. We live in Delaware, just not far, maybe 30 minutes from Philly.
00:01:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, how's the weather there today? It's perfect here.
00:01:14
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm afraid we're getting some of that nor'easter that's going on the east coast.
00:01:17
Speaker 1: Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah, that sounds really bad.
00:01:22
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think it is for folks that are living right along the coast. I think we're far enough inland. We're just going to get some rain and some wind. It's going to be fine.
00:01:31
Speaker 1: Well, that's good to hear. And you've got a long history with working with bulb companies, and that's pretty cool.
00:01:41
Speaker 2: You know, it is. I lived in the Netherlands for a long time, and boy, they do bulbs like nobody else. And it was a wonderful place to learn. So it's been a lifelong love.
00:01:52
Speaker 1: And it's an amazing business. You know, I've seen some videos and things of, you know, the distribution warehouses and, you know, the logistics that are all behind it. And it's a huge business and it's really efficiently run. And, you know, I guess the time to sell the bulbs is all in a condensed period of time. It's just amazing how it gets done.
00:02:16
Speaker 2: You know, it really is. And, you know, they've been doing this in the Netherlands for hundreds of years. So they are really good at it, man. They've got it down to a science, but as is often in the case in horticulture, we've got a small window to get those plants in the ground.
00:02:31
Speaker 1: And that's what you're here for. Most of all, you're here because it's always a delight to talk to you, but, um, yeah, you, uh, the garden media group came out with, um, sort of a, uh, article about, uh, fall planting, um, Made easy, fall bulb planting made easy. Skip these mistakes for spring success. So, you know, what are some of the common problems people make and how do you avoid them?
00:02:59
Speaker 2: Well, there's a few. And, you know, we've got to also remember plants and bulbs are really forgiving and they don't always read the rules. So I would like people to think about these as kind of general guidelines that we try to keep. You know, for instance, like the timing of bulb planting, that really makes a difference depending on where you live. Like if you're in zone 4 and 5, now is a good time. You know, I'm in 7, so we're going to talk about October and early November. 8 and 9, you're talking November, early December. And, you know, zone 10 and higher, we're talking about pre-chilled bulbs because they need some cold protection, some cold period protection.
00:03:42
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:03:42
Speaker 1: So I saw in your article that sort of a rule of thumb is the 60 degree mark on your soil.
00:03:50
Speaker 4: It is.
00:03:50
Speaker 2: And you know, and that's kind of tough for folks because nobody really, not very many people have a thermometer to test their soil. So one thing, one thing we can say is like use these zone guidelines or sometimes like after the very first frost is a good idea. The ground isn't frozen yet. Um, But, you know, it's a good time. That's kind of a good marker to get going to get those in the ground. And I'm kind of a rule follower, Scott.
00:04:17
Speaker 5: Really?
00:04:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of follow these timelines. I was going to say, but my husband and your friend does not follow the rules at all.
00:04:26
Speaker 1: That's how marriage works.
00:04:29
Speaker 4: It is.
00:04:30
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you, he puts things in the ground until the end of December, and I want to scold him. But honestly, they come up just fine.
00:04:37
Speaker 1: Yeah. We, you know, at the Cincinnati Zoo and Botanical Garden, we put 100 plus tulips in every year and then probably another 15 to 20,000 minor bulbs and daffodils and things. And a lot of it's done with volunteers, you know, and many of those are older people. And, you know, it's hard work planting that many bulbs. You're on your knees and it's just, your body rejects, just wants to reject the whole process. And, you know, towards the end, some of these daffodils are, your tulips are getting planted, you know, with the tips virtually out of the ground. And, and yet the display is great every year, but it, you know, I was talking with John about this earlier and just, you know, the, the little things you can do to do things right, do pay off over the longterm. And I'm thinking, you know, especially the minor bulbs and the daffodils that are going to be there forever. Do you know, getting them at the right depth, giving them that best first year you possibly can. It all adds up.
00:05:38
Speaker 2: You know, it really does. And I think planting depth is one of those things that really is important. And general rule of thumb is we want to plant them three times as deep as they are tall. So if you have a bulb that's an inch tall, let's try to get them in three inches deep. But I'll tell you what, digging can be tough. And so I think a lot of times they don't get planted as deep as they should. that makes it a little easier for the critters to dig them up and eat them. Um, and it also exposes them to temperature fluctuations that can be rough, but I'll tell you what I do because I'm old and I want to work smarter, not harder. Um, we use ball boggers. It's easy.
00:06:17
Speaker 1: Yeah. I, uh, I have leftover from my landscaping days, a two cycle, uh, uh, a two cycle, two horsepower drill, uh, with a two inch auger that, that, Makes it go so fast. Nowadays, they have battery-powered augers that are really good, too.
00:06:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what? We just buy the attachment and put it onto our cordless drill.
00:06:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing how effective that can be, especially in reasonably decent soil.
00:06:48
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean, Dan and I can put in... you know, 1500 bulbs in a morning. And we've actually got two sizes, Scott. We use a small one. I use a small one if I'm planting by myself, but we also have a tall one when we're working together so that one person can be standing and drilling, the other person can be planting the bulb and you can switch out and it's a little easier on the old bodies.
00:07:14
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:07:14
Speaker 1: And that means you can plant more, right?
00:07:18
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And Bulbs really should be planted in big numbers.
00:07:22
Speaker 5: I agree. I agree.
00:07:24
Speaker 1: Hey, I'll tell you what, we'll talk about that when we come back. We've got to take a break, but we'll, we'll talk about, uh, you know, the number of, you know, the more bulbs, the better basically. And, uh, just, you know, some of the bulbs themselves. So, uh, folks stay tuned with us, uh, more with Peggy and Montgomery when we get back in just a few minutes.
00:07:54
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00:10:16
Speaker 1: Welcome back. I am here with John Butcher, my good friend, and my other friend, good friend from Delaware, Peggy Ann Montgomery. Welcome back here, Peggy Ann. We were talking about the importance of mini bulbs, and they're cheap. It's easy to do, relatively cheap anyway, and it does make such a difference when you plant in big sweeps or groupings as opposed to just one here and one there.
00:10:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really true. And, you know, I think what a lot of people do, and I understand this, is they buy eight of this and 10 of that and 10 of that and 10 of that. And you don't really get, you know, oh, hey, I am too. So you don't really get, you know, the big sweeps in a really dramatic show. And, you know, we all want to try those new ones. So I understand. But what I do sometimes is I put them in my vegetable garden. So I get to try them out, see what they do. And then I just use them for cuts for my friends and family.
00:11:17
Speaker 1: That's a great idea. And, you know, that's one of the things I wanted to ask you. It's not in the article, but dividing bulbs, especially like daffodils, you know, they've been in for a decade, you know, time flies. It's like, oh my gosh, they've been there 10 years and they look great. They're big clumps, but you can really kind of divide them in and, and, make a bigger sweep of them that way.
00:11:44
Speaker 2: Oh, that's so true. And just like, you know, I know you've got smart listeners out there. All of us gardeners divide and conquer. It's how we get more plants and we love it. So that's a really important idea. And you want to wait until they're past bloom and like maybe, you know, starting to senesce. That's a great time to dig them up, spread them apart, start a new colony somewhere else. This is when I have to give my husband some props because we have millions of Galanthus snowdrops. And I don't know, maybe a dozen different kinds. And he is so diligent and it's actually so easy to dig them up after they bloom and start new little groups everywhere in the garden. And now we have thousands. So it's so worth it. And you can also take those divisions easily. and share those with your friends and your family. It's called planting in the green, and the Brits do it all the time.
00:12:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you have any of those $ 100- plus snowdrops?
00:12:48
Speaker 2: I do not.
00:12:49
Speaker 4: Me neither.
00:12:51
Speaker 2: I can't even count myself as a galantophile. We've only got a dozen.
00:12:55
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:12:56
Speaker 1: And what we're joking about is there are people– something about snowdrops that makes– turns people into collectors– And, you know, a new one will come out and it has, I don't know, one extra green dot or something. And it's suddenly, you know, everybody has to have it and it's a hundred dollars plus, uh, you know, which is kind of blows my mind because that's also a bulb you can buy like a hundred of for, uh, less than 20 bucks. So, you know, right, right, right, right.
00:13:23
Speaker 2: But you know, we gardeners can be collectors and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that.
00:13:29
Speaker 1: No, that's true. Uh, you know, going back to the sweeps, the big the big groupings. That's what we do at the zoo, you know, uh, with the tulips, uh, you know, whole beds will be tulips and we'll mass a certain color for, you know, the three by five foot area. And then the next, you know, and, uh, it, it winds up just looking so natural and, you know, with tulips, they're hard to grow here. We basically use them as an annual, you know, the way we use them at the zoo, but there is nothing like that color in the, in the springtime with the light low on the horizon and catching them late in the day. And it's just glorious.
00:14:11
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right. And, you know, I think you bring up a good point, Scott. It's okay. I want everybody to have permission to use bulbs as annuals. I mean, I buy annuals in spring and I know I'm going to compost them at the end of the year. And I'll do that with tulips too, because tulips, except for some species, tulips and maybe Darwin hybrids, they don't come back reliably. And so I will go out and plant them. I'll get the big show. I will get my fix of color and flowers in the spring, and then I'll pull them out when it's time to put in my annuals, and it's okay.
00:14:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, even in containers. You know, I've seen that done very effectively.
00:14:51
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.
00:14:53
Speaker 1: It's a joy to see those things in the spring. It's just wonderful. you know, it's a time when you need to see that color and nothing is as good at providing it as, you know, tulips and some of the other bulbs. Let's talk about minor bulbs for a little bit because I have been finding more and more joy in those in recent years. And, you know, the snowdrops are part of them. Crocuses, Scylla, Chionodoxa, I think that's now a Scylla. They're really, really, they add a lot to the garden, but without the space and the, you know, the nessence period of, say, a daffodil.
00:15:32
Speaker 2: You know, that's 100% true, and I love minor bulbs. They might actually be my favorite, and I know I grow thousands. These are great for you to plant, like, under your deciduous trees and shrubs, or they're going to get light in the spring, and they're not really in the way of any other plants. And the other thing I do, Scott, is I plant them in my lawn. I have a huge bulb garden in our front lawn, and it's all the minor bulbs, starting with crocus, going all the way through to botanic tulips. And they just come up in succession. It gives me a couple extra months of interest in my garden. It also provides nectar and pollen for the very early pollinators, bees, and bumblebees. So important. It delights my neighbors. And then I don't have to mow it until... you know, like mid-May.
00:16:26
Speaker 1: That's the question I've had because I've just started dabbling in minor bulbs in my lawn. And, you know, I've been wondering, you know, about the mowing aspect of it. You know, how late do you have to wait to mow or not even have to wait, but how long can you wait to mow? And, you know, what height do you need to mow? And how do you know when you can start mowing, I guess is the real question.
00:16:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such a great question. I appreciate you asking it. So what happens is you wait. And so the last bulbs that come in succession in mine are botanic tulips, tulipa sylvestris. And so I wait until that foliage has gone down, has been nessed because, you know, they need to bring those nutrients back into the bulbs. And that happens for me and they're done and they're quiet and have reseeded. about mid-May. And then what I do, because remember, this is all grown up and the grass grows too. So what I do is I mow a two to three foot strip all around it so it looks neat and it looks intentional. And then when all the foliage has finessed, what I do is I go through and I cut it down first with a string trimmer because it's probably a foot tall. And then I leave that lay for a little bit. So that does two things. It's going to make it lighter for me to pick up when I rake it up. And number two, it allows time for the bulbs, for those seed to drop. Some bulbs, you know, come from seed and bulblets. So that does two things. After about a week, I rake that up and I just start mowing it like normal. And because grass is grass and really a good grower, within a couple of weeks, it looks just absolutely normal again.
00:18:17
Speaker 3: Hmm.
00:18:19
Speaker 1: Sounds like a really good approach and, of course, less mowing. That's a good thing.
00:18:23
Speaker 2: It does less mowing. But, you know, the great thing is it is just that early color. And I think we all need that. I don't think there's anything as precious as those first flowers of spring. Yeah.
00:18:34
Speaker 1: You know, and crocuses, they're among my favorite. And as you mentioned, the pollinators, the bees absolutely love them too. It is so fun to see a bee just like absolutely going ecstatic inside of a crocus flower. What are, what are, go ahead. No, go ahead.
00:18:52
Speaker 2: Oh, I was just going to say, you know, one nice thing is if you don't want, like, say you really love your lawn and you use herbicides and you have irrigation and stuff like that, bald lawn is probably not for you and that's okay. You can put them in your borders. But also if you don't want to wait that long to mow, you could just have a crocus lawn. Crocus come up super early. Their foliage is really tiny and strap-like. So, it goes down very quickly and you really don't have to interrupt your normal mowing, uh, you know, sequence.
00:19:24
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:19:25
Speaker 1: One thing mentioned in the article that I was unaware of, and I, I feel like I, you know, I have my finger on the pulse of the industry at all times. Uh, I'm being a little bit facetious, but anyway, uh, that there's been such a big upsurge in, uh, bold purchases in the last few years.
00:19:42
Speaker 2: Well, you know, that's something, um, That's something that I pay close attention to, so we can talk about that more in a little bit.
00:19:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have to go to a break. Actually, our time is up for today, but I would love to have you back again soon. More bulb talk, more talk about whatever the Garden Media Group is doing and working on. So I hope you're available for that Of course.
00:20:12
Speaker 2: And folks, check out flowerbulb.eu for inspiration and education. We don't sell anything.
00:20:17
Speaker 1: Okay, flowerbulb.eu. Thanks again, Peggy. And we'll be back after this break. You're listening to Let's Garden with Scott Berline. Stay tuned, please.
00:20:55
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00:21:50
Speaker 1: Visit EasyBreathe.com. And welcome back. We're in the final stretches here of our show today. I sure do hope you have been enjoying listening. You know, we still have time for one call, one or two calls. If anybody wants to shoot a call to us, we'll be glad to take it. 800-823-8255. In the meantime, John, I was looking at another article online this week from the Garden Professors website or their Facebook page. And this is literally Garden Professors. horticultural professors together, answering questions, putting out articles, uh, usually a lot of times like, uh, uh, disputing misinformation and myths that persist in horticulture, like nothing else. Um, but this, uh, this one came out is really helpful because I think a lot of people struggle with this, but it's a gardener's guide to reading pesticide labels. I mean, first of all, they make it so hard. The print is so unbelievably small. And they're on these little labels that are stickers that you got to open, peel open. And, and then you struggle with the font size and then, you know, instructions for use and you, you all good. This is what I need to know. But it's like, it's unlawful to not follow the instructions for use. And when you finally get to the part that you need and, uh, you know, it, it takes a while. It's a struggle. It's frustrating.
00:24:03
Speaker 4: You would think cliff notes here would be a benefit to everyone by, you know, cause nobody's going to read all of that before they use the product. It's just not going to happen.
00:24:12
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:24:12
Speaker 1: Or if like the big box stores or the places that sell or even garden centers, the places that sell these chemicals would have a sort of a laminated printed thing.
00:24:24
Speaker 4: That's a great idea. A QR code, something they can scan, something. Yeah.
00:24:28
Speaker 1: Some website somewhere that just has all the chemicals and that, the fact page that you really need to know. Right. But the garden professors have a lot of good information here too. You know, mostly it follows the lines of integrated pest management, IPM. And number one is identify the pest before you act.
00:24:49
Speaker 5: Right.
00:24:50
Speaker 1: So important. But people often start out just, oh, I see a hole in my plant, whatever, and just go buy the most toxic thing they can. to deal with it. And so, you know, when you identify the pests, it's the starting point for knowing how to deal with the pest.
00:25:08
Speaker 4: Can we go back one step?
00:25:09
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
00:25:10
Speaker 4: I actually think one of the best things to do, and it's when I teach horticulture students and they're asking like, well, what can I do to be more valuable to the industry? And it's know your plants, actually, and being able to identify the plant first. Because if you identify the plant, then you can really start to identify the pest much easier.
00:25:30
Speaker 1: It helps a lot.
00:25:31
Speaker 4: And I know that you were just making that assumption already that we already know what the plant is, but I think it's a really important thing to know what you're.
00:25:40
Speaker 5: I agree.
00:25:40
Speaker 4: What plant you're dealing with. And then we identify the pest and then we develop a treatment plan or.
00:25:47
Speaker 5: If.
00:25:48
Speaker 4: Or not.
00:25:48
Speaker 3: Not.
00:25:49
Speaker 1: You're right.
00:25:50
Speaker 3: Right.
00:25:51
Speaker 1: So often when you, when you've identified the pest, the next step is like, okay, what to do about it? And many, many times you'll read, even in the chemical company books, is this is not a major pest. This is not something you have to worry about.
00:26:10
Speaker 5: Right.
00:26:11
Speaker 4: Some bugs are good.
00:26:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of bugs are good. And some are just sort of incidental, you know.
00:26:15
Speaker 2: Right.
00:26:16
Speaker 1: And so, but when you get that red flag bug, it's like, yep, this is a devastating insect of this plant, you know. then you can look into what is the most effective treatment plan. Right.
00:26:29
Speaker 4: Well, and I think we just, as humans, get into this natural thing where we want to treat everything and we want to save everything. And sometimes just digging it out of the garden and throwing it in the compost pile or sending it.
00:26:45
Speaker 1: That is so true. If a plant is problematic year after year after year, get rid of that burden, you know, and just move on.
00:26:53
Speaker 4: I feel like it's one of the gifts of being a horticulturalist is identifying the right plan in the right place. And if something's taking that much extra work to keep alive in your garden, maybe, maybe there's something that could work there a little bit better. And that doesn't mean that you never treat anything or that we're not doing it. But I really think that this IPM concept, integrated pest management, where we're kind of looking at the big picture and not just saying, hey, there's a there's a bug, we got to kill it. Or there's a fungus, we got to spray it. There's lots of other ways to approach issues in the garden.
00:27:30
Speaker 1: And it's funny, you know, when you do need to treat, which is relatively rare, really, there are ways to do it often that don't involve a chemical at all. You know, bacillus thuringiensis.
00:27:44
Speaker 4: Bt.
00:27:45
Speaker 5: Bt.
00:27:45
Speaker 2: Yep.
00:27:46
Speaker 1: It seems like there's a Bt for almost every bug. And that's the important part. There are different Bt's. So what is a BT? It's a bacteria that kills mainly caterpillars, but other bugs.
00:27:58
Speaker 4: Mostly caterpillars, but it's really specific to that bug and not just killing the entire ecosystem when you put it down.
00:28:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is, you know, a wonderful approach. Because if you spray a broad-spectrum pesticide, you're killing the good guys. And, you know, at the zoo, we have learned over the years that, you know, the very fact that we have a diversity of plants that we never spray means we have a diversity of, uh, uh, good guys, the, the, the plants that pet or the, uh, insects that, uh, prey upon or, uh, parasitize the bad guys. And it just keeps things in balance. And you know, the fact is it, that's what worked in the, in the world for millions of years, you know, before any chemical company ever came around, And I'm not knocking chemicals. We need them sometimes. But just the diversity of plants and that diversity of insect populations, it balances itself.
00:28:58
Speaker 4: There's a lot of cool stuff that happens there. And that doesn't mean we don't need intervention just with humans too, right? Like we need sometimes our manufactured processes for handling medical issues are lifesavers. And it's the same thing in the horticulture world. There's some really good things, and it's all about how you use it and the approach and not overdoing things and not just these plans that I see some companies put out where we're just going to spray everything, a bug treatment plan or whatever, and they don't know what they're treating. They don't know what they're treating for, and it's just this general insecticide that's getting.
00:29:34
Speaker 1: Pumping it out there. Most times they're not using protection right or doing it on the right kind of day. You'll see them out there with wind blowing.
00:29:42
Speaker 4: 20 miles an hour.
00:29:43
Speaker 3: It's a wild world.
00:29:44
Speaker 1: Crazy.
00:29:44
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:29:45
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:29:45
Speaker 1: That drives me nuts to see that. Some more things they mentioned, learn the anatomy of a pesticide label. We were discussing this during the break. Pesticide labels could be much, much more- Uh, readable. User-friendly. User-friendly. Exactly. Uh, know the product name and the active ingredient. Uh, that's important because as people are learning right now, Roundup for many, many years was glyphosate.
00:30:13
Speaker 5: Right.
00:30:14
Speaker 1: People, there was, you know, people argued about the safety of glyphosate, but it's a pretty known factor that for humans, it's pretty safe, at least when, at the level of spot treating weeds in the garden.
00:30:26
Speaker 5: Right.
00:30:27
Speaker 1: Then they switched to Because I think a lot of the complaints, they switch to a new formula, which is much more worse in many ways. It stays in the soil. It harms other plants. You know, it's not safe for humans. And so if you want to use the old glyphosate, if you think you're using glyphosate when you buy Roundup, you aren't. And that was a change that showed up in that tiny little font on the label. That most people can't see and even fewer read.
00:31:02
Speaker 5: Right.
00:31:02
Speaker 4: Well, and I think there's just a lot that we just don't know. And less exposure is probably better.
00:31:09
Speaker 5: Right.
00:31:09
Speaker 4: In general, regardless of which chemical.
00:31:12
Speaker 1: Error on the side of caution. Yeah, that's right.
00:31:14
Speaker 4: Use your proper PPE. That's one of the things that should be front and center.
00:31:18
Speaker 1: Even for home gardeners.
00:31:20
Speaker 4: Even for home gardeners.
00:31:20
Speaker 1: Just using it a little bit. Wear gloves. Wear eye protection.
00:31:23
Speaker 2: Pants.
00:31:24
Speaker 5: Pants.
00:31:25
Speaker 4: You shouldn't be out there in your flip-flops, spraying it on your toes.
00:31:30
Speaker 1: But you see that too, a lot. Even in commercials, I've seen that where like the, the, the homeowner is using a pesticide or a, an herbicide and they're out there in shorts and sandals. That's kind of crazy.
00:31:44
Speaker 4: Well, you know, to each their own, I guess.
00:31:47
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:31:47
Speaker 1: Directions for use. You can use these product, this product on your plant and pest. So yeah, it will address what, what, plants you can use it on what it's effective on and what pests they're effective on and that's really uh i mean if you're spraying the wrong product you're you're doing harm maybe and no good.
00:32:08
Speaker 4: Right right right right for sure can be it can be a detriment and i would i would like to throw in a little fertilizer talk with this too oh sure yeah fertilizer labels can be extremely difficult to analyze and figure out, you know, it's this much per thousand square feet or whatever. It's like, who's like, and it is all math that we can figure out, but it is really difficult. And if you over apply fertilizer, you're salting your soil and burning it out. And you know, you're, uh, too much is not good. It's a, it's a detriment and, and figuring out how to read that label and how much to put down can is with the synthetic, uh, Fertilizers in particular can be really challenging.
00:32:49
Speaker 1: Let alone calibrating your drop feeder or your feeder or your sprayer. That gets into some serious math. Right.
00:32:56
Speaker 4: For homeowners, some of the organic options I think are really a lot better just because your risk of burning out plants with inorganic fertilizer is so much less than with the synthetics.
00:33:07
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:33:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, you really, first of all, just know if you need to fertilize in the first place. Right, right, right. A lot of times you just don't have to. Trees don't usually need fertilizer.
00:33:16
Speaker 4: Most things don't need it. It doesn't mean it can't help, but just willy-nilly throwing fertilizer down is not always a good thing.
00:33:24
Speaker 1: And the mantra is always get a soil test to know what nutrient you are deficient in, if any, and then maybe treat just for that nutrient. Because if you don't need phosphorus, and most people don't, It's just going to wash into the rivers and it becomes a pollution problem, you know, with algae and, you know, winds up in the Great Lakes. It winds up in the Gulf, wherever it goes. It's not good.
00:33:51
Speaker 4: There's definitely consequences to every action we take. No question.
00:33:56
Speaker 1: Yeah. You sound like a parent.
00:33:58
Speaker 4: Oh, well, I do have a kind of a kid.
00:34:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a grown up kid. But you have the muscle memory thing going on.
00:34:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.
00:34:06
Speaker 1: There are consequences for your action, mister. Yep, that's right. The precautionary statements, protecting yourself, caution, warning, danger, danger, poison. These are all levels of toxicity of the product. And you really need to know it affects what PPE or personal protection you need to be wearing.
00:34:27
Speaker 3: Right.
00:34:27
Speaker 4: And you know, if you're wearing like the rubber gloves or the disposable gloves, nitrile is one of the things that you want with it to keep the chemical from, seeping in and out of the glove. So just cause you have a glove doesn't mean you've properly protected yourself.
00:34:42
Speaker 1: You know, this is going to make me sound stupid, but that's never stopped me before, but it was remarkably late in life that I realized that you can absorb chemicals through your skin.
00:34:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.
00:34:53
Speaker 1: And you can.
00:34:54
Speaker 4: Skin's an organ.
00:34:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it breathes and things can get in.
00:34:57
Speaker 4: Biggest organ on your body is your skin.
00:34:59
Speaker 1: Sweat can come out, chemicals can go in. So you want to wear a you know, the gloves and long sleeves. And if you're spraying above you, you want to cover your, your head as much as you could possibly do it. Uh, it it's, there's a lot to it that, you know, a lot of people don't realize. I think that's the point of this article is just, uh, getting this information out to people. It is the, um, it was put out by the garden professors. They, I think they're definitely have a Facebook page. They have a website. You just need to Google or look up the garden professors. And it's actually pretty entertaining a lot of times too. The information is not just presented, but sometimes it's presented in a humorous way. And because they are horticultural professors working for extension services, you know that the information is as reliable as it possibly can be. Not to say they haven't made mistakes in the past, but way more reliable for good information than just somebody on the internet or your buddy.
00:36:10
Speaker 4: Well, in theory, they're not trying to sell you anything.
00:36:12
Speaker 1: And they're not trying to sell you something.
00:36:13
Speaker 4: Which is the important part to me is there shouldn't be an inherent bias in there that creates them pushing you one way or the other, which is why I think that information coming from that particular source is a really good thing.
00:36:26
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:36:27
Speaker 1: So we need to take our final break. Man, the time flies when we do these shows. It's just so much fun. When we come back, we'll have Gary Sullivan joining us. That'll be a treat, as always. And we'll wrap this thing up. You're listening to Let's Guard with Scott Berline. We'll be back in just a few minutes.
00:36:56
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00:38:28
Speaker 1: And welcome back. You're listening to Let's Garden with Scott Berline. Just to wrap up a few things, our Facebook page is up. And all the plants that we talked about, you can see pictures and information about. And I'll get links and some more information of other things we've talked about more recently up there for you to enjoy. That's Let's Garden with Scott Berline on Facebook. And now it is our time to talk with Gary Sullivan. Gary, good morning. How are you?
00:39:00
Speaker 5: Good morning.
00:39:01
Speaker 1: I'm fine.
00:39:01
Speaker 3: How are you, Scott?
00:39:02
Speaker 1: I'm doing all right.
00:39:03
Speaker 2: Wonderful.
00:39:04
Speaker 3: Yep.
00:39:04
Speaker 1: I've got a football game in my future.
00:39:06
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. You're running north today.
00:39:08
Speaker 1: Running north immediately after the show. I can't be on your show because I got to get flying. It's a two-hour drive and a 12 o'clock start.
00:39:16
Speaker 5: Well, you might have to hurry.
00:39:18
Speaker 1: But it's Ohio State at the SHU. My first time there. Oh, good for you. Yeah, so this is really exciting.
00:39:25
Speaker 5: Sure.
00:39:26
Speaker 1: And, yeah.
00:39:28
Speaker 3: That's wonderful. That's wonderful.
00:39:30
Speaker 1: Ohio state shirt on joe ready to rock and roll ready to rock and roll at the first big 10 game.
00:39:37
Speaker 5: No working in the garden this afternoon.
00:39:39
Speaker 1: Uh right yeah i put everything on a one day delay at the very.
00:39:45
Speaker 3: Least autopilot yeah Well, you don't have to water anything, that's for sure.
00:39:50
Speaker 1: No, no. We've had a couple dry days, beautiful days, absolutely gorgeous days. Yesterday was outstanding. But we had so much rain leading up to it. I think we can just relax on the hoses for a couple days.
00:40:04
Speaker 3: There's a water retention pond not far from my house, and I can always see it. And about two or three weeks ago, I mean, I don't know how big it is, but it's a big, big pond. That thing started out the spring, and it always does, totally filled. And by August of last year, it was virtually empty. There were little puddles on the floor of the lake.
00:40:29
Speaker 5: That was it.
00:40:31
Speaker 3: And then this spring, fills back up. And it was about right around the 1st of September. That thing was down to about, it was probably down 10 feet. And it's filled again. in one week it was filled so that's amazing.
00:40:51
Speaker 1: Last week we had ron rothis on and he's a weather buff and he he mentioned that ohio is the only state that's not in a drought condition and it's well we got everybody else's rain this year.
00:41:04
Speaker 3: Yeah well the northeast today with a nor'eastern oh they're catching up they're gonna catch up too because that's things just been sitting out there 50 mile an hour winds and A deluge of rain for probably the last four days and supposed to go through Monday.
00:41:18
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:41:19
Speaker 1: It looks, uh, it looks like it could be pretty bad.
00:41:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:41:22
Speaker 1: For New York and, uh, New York city, the area and, and North.
00:41:26
Speaker 5: Sure.
00:41:26
Speaker 1: Uh, Virginia beach, even, and I was seeing some really like 15 foot waves yesterday or the day before.
00:41:32
Speaker 3: Is that right?
00:41:33
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:41:33
Speaker 1: And you know, that's two or three days before the storm even got, is getting there.
00:41:38
Speaker 5: Wow.
00:41:39
Speaker 3: I talked to my brother last night. He's in the mountains of North Carolina, uh, And he's getting his Jeep out, and he's got this big driving excursion today. And he goes, well, it's not really starting to change. It's kind of starting to change, but it's been so blue. I've got this whole drive all mapped out.
00:42:00
Speaker 1: He was all excited.
00:42:02
Speaker 5: And so we are getting to a very beautiful time of year.
00:42:05
Speaker 1: My favorite.
00:42:05
Speaker 3: And nature's going to put on its show. And I guess in our area, with the amount of rain, it should be a beautiful show.
00:42:11
Speaker 1: I guess. Yeah, I've never really correlated. how rainfall during the year or lack of it results in what kind of fall color. It seems like there's a question every year, but every year the fall color is pretty good. John's looking at me like he has an answer.
00:42:28
Speaker 4: I just think when it gets really droughty, you get a lot of early leaf drop. Yeah, that's true. And so you get a little less of that in a prosperous wet year.
00:42:37
Speaker 3: It also seems like it's not as brilliant. So with the rain, it'll probably be brilliant colors.
00:42:42
Speaker 5: At least I hope so.
00:42:43
Speaker 1: Me too.
00:42:44
Speaker 3: All right.
00:42:45
Speaker 4: Go Bucs.
00:42:45
Speaker 1: Everybody should stay tuned to your show. It's a great one at home with Gary Sullivan. Thanks for being here. John, thank you for being here today, helping. And I want to thank Rhiannon Hoeller and Peggy Ann Montgomery for being guests, callers, and listeners. Thank you. Danny Gleason produced the show perfectly. Thank you, Danny. And next week we'll have Sarah Geiger-Beam back and a turf specialist and Joe Boggs, and we'll have a great show too. So come back for that. Again, the Facebook page, we'll have all kinds of information and pictures. See you next week.
Speaker 1: And welcome back. You're listening to Let's Garden with Scott Burland. I'm here with John Butcher, CEO of Madison Tree Care and Landscape. And now we have Peggy Ann Montgomery on the line from Garden Media Group. And we're going to talk about common mistakes people make when planting their bulbs. Peggy Ann, how are you?
00:00:51
Speaker 2: I'm great this morning. How are you?
00:00:53
Speaker 1: I'm feeling pretty good. You're waking up, you know. It's a process.
00:00:59
Speaker 2: I hear that.
00:01:00
Speaker 1: You're calling from more or less the Philadelphia area, right?
00:01:05
Speaker 2: That's right. We live in Delaware, just not far, maybe 30 minutes from Philly.
00:01:10
Speaker 1: Yeah, how's the weather there today? It's perfect here.
00:01:14
Speaker 2: Oh, I'm afraid we're getting some of that nor'easter that's going on the east coast.
00:01:17
Speaker 1: Oh, I forgot about that. Yeah, that sounds really bad.
00:01:22
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I think it is for folks that are living right along the coast. I think we're far enough inland. We're just going to get some rain and some wind. It's going to be fine.
00:01:31
Speaker 1: Well, that's good to hear. And you've got a long history with working with bulb companies, and that's pretty cool.
00:01:41
Speaker 2: You know, it is. I lived in the Netherlands for a long time, and boy, they do bulbs like nobody else. And it was a wonderful place to learn. So it's been a lifelong love.
00:01:52
Speaker 1: And it's an amazing business. You know, I've seen some videos and things of, you know, the distribution warehouses and, you know, the logistics that are all behind it. And it's a huge business and it's really efficiently run. And, you know, I guess the time to sell the bulbs is all in a condensed period of time. It's just amazing how it gets done.
00:02:16
Speaker 2: You know, it really is. And, you know, they've been doing this in the Netherlands for hundreds of years. So they are really good at it, man. They've got it down to a science, but as is often in the case in horticulture, we've got a small window to get those plants in the ground.
00:02:31
Speaker 1: And that's what you're here for. Most of all, you're here because it's always a delight to talk to you, but, um, yeah, you, uh, the garden media group came out with, um, sort of a, uh, article about, uh, fall planting, um, Made easy, fall bulb planting made easy. Skip these mistakes for spring success. So, you know, what are some of the common problems people make and how do you avoid them?
00:02:59
Speaker 2: Well, there's a few. And, you know, we've got to also remember plants and bulbs are really forgiving and they don't always read the rules. So I would like people to think about these as kind of general guidelines that we try to keep. You know, for instance, like the timing of bulb planting, that really makes a difference depending on where you live. Like if you're in zone 4 and 5, now is a good time. You know, I'm in 7, so we're going to talk about October and early November. 8 and 9, you're talking November, early December. And, you know, zone 10 and higher, we're talking about pre-chilled bulbs because they need some cold protection, some cold period protection.
00:03:42
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:03:42
Speaker 1: So I saw in your article that sort of a rule of thumb is the 60 degree mark on your soil.
00:03:50
Speaker 4: It is.
00:03:50
Speaker 2: And you know, and that's kind of tough for folks because nobody really, not very many people have a thermometer to test their soil. So one thing, one thing we can say is like use these zone guidelines or sometimes like after the very first frost is a good idea. The ground isn't frozen yet. Um, But, you know, it's a good time. That's kind of a good marker to get going to get those in the ground. And I'm kind of a rule follower, Scott.
00:04:17
Speaker 5: Really?
00:04:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, I kind of follow these timelines. I was going to say, but my husband and your friend does not follow the rules at all.
00:04:26
Speaker 1: That's how marriage works.
00:04:29
Speaker 4: It is.
00:04:30
Speaker 2: And I'll tell you, he puts things in the ground until the end of December, and I want to scold him. But honestly, they come up just fine.
00:04:37
Speaker 1: Yeah. We, you know, at the Cincinnati Zoo and Botanical Garden, we put 100 plus tulips in every year and then probably another 15 to 20,000 minor bulbs and daffodils and things. And a lot of it's done with volunteers, you know, and many of those are older people. And, you know, it's hard work planting that many bulbs. You're on your knees and it's just, your body rejects, just wants to reject the whole process. And, you know, towards the end, some of these daffodils are, your tulips are getting planted, you know, with the tips virtually out of the ground. And, and yet the display is great every year, but it, you know, I was talking with John about this earlier and just, you know, the, the little things you can do to do things right, do pay off over the longterm. And I'm thinking, you know, especially the minor bulbs and the daffodils that are going to be there forever. Do you know, getting them at the right depth, giving them that best first year you possibly can. It all adds up.
00:05:38
Speaker 2: You know, it really does. And I think planting depth is one of those things that really is important. And general rule of thumb is we want to plant them three times as deep as they are tall. So if you have a bulb that's an inch tall, let's try to get them in three inches deep. But I'll tell you what, digging can be tough. And so I think a lot of times they don't get planted as deep as they should. that makes it a little easier for the critters to dig them up and eat them. Um, and it also exposes them to temperature fluctuations that can be rough, but I'll tell you what I do because I'm old and I want to work smarter, not harder. Um, we use ball boggers. It's easy.
00:06:17
Speaker 1: Yeah. I, uh, I have leftover from my landscaping days, a two cycle, uh, uh, a two cycle, two horsepower drill, uh, with a two inch auger that, that, Makes it go so fast. Nowadays, they have battery-powered augers that are really good, too.
00:06:37
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know what? We just buy the attachment and put it onto our cordless drill.
00:06:42
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's amazing how effective that can be, especially in reasonably decent soil.
00:06:48
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean, Dan and I can put in... you know, 1500 bulbs in a morning. And we've actually got two sizes, Scott. We use a small one. I use a small one if I'm planting by myself, but we also have a tall one when we're working together so that one person can be standing and drilling, the other person can be planting the bulb and you can switch out and it's a little easier on the old bodies.
00:07:14
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:07:14
Speaker 1: And that means you can plant more, right?
00:07:18
Speaker 2: Absolutely. And Bulbs really should be planted in big numbers.
00:07:22
Speaker 5: I agree. I agree.
00:07:24
Speaker 1: Hey, I'll tell you what, we'll talk about that when we come back. We've got to take a break, but we'll, we'll talk about, uh, you know, the number of, you know, the more bulbs, the better basically. And, uh, just, you know, some of the bulbs themselves. So, uh, folks stay tuned with us, uh, more with Peggy and Montgomery when we get back in just a few minutes.
00:07:54
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00:10:16
Speaker 1: Welcome back. I am here with John Butcher, my good friend, and my other friend, good friend from Delaware, Peggy Ann Montgomery. Welcome back here, Peggy Ann. We were talking about the importance of mini bulbs, and they're cheap. It's easy to do, relatively cheap anyway, and it does make such a difference when you plant in big sweeps or groupings as opposed to just one here and one there.
00:10:43
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really true. And, you know, I think what a lot of people do, and I understand this, is they buy eight of this and 10 of that and 10 of that and 10 of that. And you don't really get, you know, oh, hey, I am too. So you don't really get, you know, the big sweeps in a really dramatic show. And, you know, we all want to try those new ones. So I understand. But what I do sometimes is I put them in my vegetable garden. So I get to try them out, see what they do. And then I just use them for cuts for my friends and family.
00:11:17
Speaker 1: That's a great idea. And, you know, that's one of the things I wanted to ask you. It's not in the article, but dividing bulbs, especially like daffodils, you know, they've been in for a decade, you know, time flies. It's like, oh my gosh, they've been there 10 years and they look great. They're big clumps, but you can really kind of divide them in and, and, make a bigger sweep of them that way.
00:11:44
Speaker 2: Oh, that's so true. And just like, you know, I know you've got smart listeners out there. All of us gardeners divide and conquer. It's how we get more plants and we love it. So that's a really important idea. And you want to wait until they're past bloom and like maybe, you know, starting to senesce. That's a great time to dig them up, spread them apart, start a new colony somewhere else. This is when I have to give my husband some props because we have millions of Galanthus snowdrops. And I don't know, maybe a dozen different kinds. And he is so diligent and it's actually so easy to dig them up after they bloom and start new little groups everywhere in the garden. And now we have thousands. So it's so worth it. And you can also take those divisions easily. and share those with your friends and your family. It's called planting in the green, and the Brits do it all the time.
00:12:42
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you have any of those $ 100- plus snowdrops?
00:12:48
Speaker 2: I do not.
00:12:49
Speaker 4: Me neither.
00:12:51
Speaker 2: I can't even count myself as a galantophile. We've only got a dozen.
00:12:55
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:12:56
Speaker 1: And what we're joking about is there are people– something about snowdrops that makes– turns people into collectors– And, you know, a new one will come out and it has, I don't know, one extra green dot or something. And it's suddenly, you know, everybody has to have it and it's a hundred dollars plus, uh, you know, which is kind of blows my mind because that's also a bulb you can buy like a hundred of for, uh, less than 20 bucks. So, you know, right, right, right, right.
00:13:23
Speaker 2: But you know, we gardeners can be collectors and I'm not saying there's anything wrong with that.
00:13:29
Speaker 1: No, that's true. Uh, you know, going back to the sweeps, the big the big groupings. That's what we do at the zoo, you know, uh, with the tulips, uh, you know, whole beds will be tulips and we'll mass a certain color for, you know, the three by five foot area. And then the next, you know, and, uh, it, it winds up just looking so natural and, you know, with tulips, they're hard to grow here. We basically use them as an annual, you know, the way we use them at the zoo, but there is nothing like that color in the, in the springtime with the light low on the horizon and catching them late in the day. And it's just glorious.
00:14:11
Speaker 2: You're absolutely right. And, you know, I think you bring up a good point, Scott. It's okay. I want everybody to have permission to use bulbs as annuals. I mean, I buy annuals in spring and I know I'm going to compost them at the end of the year. And I'll do that with tulips too, because tulips, except for some species, tulips and maybe Darwin hybrids, they don't come back reliably. And so I will go out and plant them. I'll get the big show. I will get my fix of color and flowers in the spring, and then I'll pull them out when it's time to put in my annuals, and it's okay.
00:14:46
Speaker 1: Yeah, even in containers. You know, I've seen that done very effectively.
00:14:51
Speaker 2: Oh, absolutely.
00:14:53
Speaker 1: It's a joy to see those things in the spring. It's just wonderful. you know, it's a time when you need to see that color and nothing is as good at providing it as, you know, tulips and some of the other bulbs. Let's talk about minor bulbs for a little bit because I have been finding more and more joy in those in recent years. And, you know, the snowdrops are part of them. Crocuses, Scylla, Chionodoxa, I think that's now a Scylla. They're really, really, they add a lot to the garden, but without the space and the, you know, the nessence period of, say, a daffodil.
00:15:32
Speaker 2: You know, that's 100% true, and I love minor bulbs. They might actually be my favorite, and I know I grow thousands. These are great for you to plant, like, under your deciduous trees and shrubs, or they're going to get light in the spring, and they're not really in the way of any other plants. And the other thing I do, Scott, is I plant them in my lawn. I have a huge bulb garden in our front lawn, and it's all the minor bulbs, starting with crocus, going all the way through to botanic tulips. And they just come up in succession. It gives me a couple extra months of interest in my garden. It also provides nectar and pollen for the very early pollinators, bees, and bumblebees. So important. It delights my neighbors. And then I don't have to mow it until... you know, like mid-May.
00:16:26
Speaker 1: That's the question I've had because I've just started dabbling in minor bulbs in my lawn. And, you know, I've been wondering, you know, about the mowing aspect of it. You know, how late do you have to wait to mow or not even have to wait, but how long can you wait to mow? And, you know, what height do you need to mow? And how do you know when you can start mowing, I guess is the real question.
00:16:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's such a great question. I appreciate you asking it. So what happens is you wait. And so the last bulbs that come in succession in mine are botanic tulips, tulipa sylvestris. And so I wait until that foliage has gone down, has been nessed because, you know, they need to bring those nutrients back into the bulbs. And that happens for me and they're done and they're quiet and have reseeded. about mid-May. And then what I do, because remember, this is all grown up and the grass grows too. So what I do is I mow a two to three foot strip all around it so it looks neat and it looks intentional. And then when all the foliage has finessed, what I do is I go through and I cut it down first with a string trimmer because it's probably a foot tall. And then I leave that lay for a little bit. So that does two things. It's going to make it lighter for me to pick up when I rake it up. And number two, it allows time for the bulbs, for those seed to drop. Some bulbs, you know, come from seed and bulblets. So that does two things. After about a week, I rake that up and I just start mowing it like normal. And because grass is grass and really a good grower, within a couple of weeks, it looks just absolutely normal again.
00:18:17
Speaker 3: Hmm.
00:18:19
Speaker 1: Sounds like a really good approach and, of course, less mowing. That's a good thing.
00:18:23
Speaker 2: It does less mowing. But, you know, the great thing is it is just that early color. And I think we all need that. I don't think there's anything as precious as those first flowers of spring. Yeah.
00:18:34
Speaker 1: You know, and crocuses, they're among my favorite. And as you mentioned, the pollinators, the bees absolutely love them too. It is so fun to see a bee just like absolutely going ecstatic inside of a crocus flower. What are, what are, go ahead. No, go ahead.
00:18:52
Speaker 2: Oh, I was just going to say, you know, one nice thing is if you don't want, like, say you really love your lawn and you use herbicides and you have irrigation and stuff like that, bald lawn is probably not for you and that's okay. You can put them in your borders. But also if you don't want to wait that long to mow, you could just have a crocus lawn. Crocus come up super early. Their foliage is really tiny and strap-like. So, it goes down very quickly and you really don't have to interrupt your normal mowing, uh, you know, sequence.
00:19:24
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:19:25
Speaker 1: One thing mentioned in the article that I was unaware of, and I, I feel like I, you know, I have my finger on the pulse of the industry at all times. Uh, I'm being a little bit facetious, but anyway, uh, that there's been such a big upsurge in, uh, bold purchases in the last few years.
00:19:42
Speaker 2: Well, you know, that's something, um, That's something that I pay close attention to, so we can talk about that more in a little bit.
00:19:50
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have to go to a break. Actually, our time is up for today, but I would love to have you back again soon. More bulb talk, more talk about whatever the Garden Media Group is doing and working on. So I hope you're available for that Of course.
00:20:12
Speaker 2: And folks, check out flowerbulb.eu for inspiration and education. We don't sell anything.
00:20:17
Speaker 1: Okay, flowerbulb.eu. Thanks again, Peggy. And we'll be back after this break. You're listening to Let's Garden with Scott Berline. Stay tuned, please.
00:20:55
Speaker 5: Hey folks, Gary Sullivan here. I've trusted Gutter Brush for 20 years. It's the easiest way to stop gutter clogs before they start. And right now you can save 25% and get free shipping with coupon code Gary25 at GutterBrush.com. No tools, no hassle, just slide it in and you're protected all season long. Now don't wait, this limited time offers end soon. That's gutterbrush.com, code Gary25, or call 888-397-9433. Remodeling your basement into a rec room, office, or home gym? Well, don't forget to ventilate those spaces to protect your home from decay. The EasyBreathe ventilation system exchanges trapped, dirty, damp air for cleaner, drier, healthier air. I've had an EasyBreathe in my home for about 10 years now, and the air in our finished basement always feels fresh and clean. Take charge of your indoor air like I did and own an EasyBreathe ventilation system. Get it installed now or do-it-yourself kits also available. Call 866-822-7328.
00:21:50
Speaker 1: Visit EasyBreathe.com. And welcome back. We're in the final stretches here of our show today. I sure do hope you have been enjoying listening. You know, we still have time for one call, one or two calls. If anybody wants to shoot a call to us, we'll be glad to take it. 800-823-8255. In the meantime, John, I was looking at another article online this week from the Garden Professors website or their Facebook page. And this is literally Garden Professors. horticultural professors together, answering questions, putting out articles, uh, usually a lot of times like, uh, uh, disputing misinformation and myths that persist in horticulture, like nothing else. Um, but this, uh, this one came out is really helpful because I think a lot of people struggle with this, but it's a gardener's guide to reading pesticide labels. I mean, first of all, they make it so hard. The print is so unbelievably small. And they're on these little labels that are stickers that you got to open, peel open. And, and then you struggle with the font size and then, you know, instructions for use and you, you all good. This is what I need to know. But it's like, it's unlawful to not follow the instructions for use. And when you finally get to the part that you need and, uh, you know, it, it takes a while. It's a struggle. It's frustrating.
00:24:03
Speaker 4: You would think cliff notes here would be a benefit to everyone by, you know, cause nobody's going to read all of that before they use the product. It's just not going to happen.
00:24:12
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:24:12
Speaker 1: Or if like the big box stores or the places that sell or even garden centers, the places that sell these chemicals would have a sort of a laminated printed thing.
00:24:24
Speaker 4: That's a great idea. A QR code, something they can scan, something. Yeah.
00:24:28
Speaker 1: Some website somewhere that just has all the chemicals and that, the fact page that you really need to know. Right. But the garden professors have a lot of good information here too. You know, mostly it follows the lines of integrated pest management, IPM. And number one is identify the pest before you act.
00:24:49
Speaker 5: Right.
00:24:50
Speaker 1: So important. But people often start out just, oh, I see a hole in my plant, whatever, and just go buy the most toxic thing they can. to deal with it. And so, you know, when you identify the pests, it's the starting point for knowing how to deal with the pest.
00:25:08
Speaker 4: Can we go back one step?
00:25:09
Speaker 1: Absolutely.
00:25:10
Speaker 4: I actually think one of the best things to do, and it's when I teach horticulture students and they're asking like, well, what can I do to be more valuable to the industry? And it's know your plants, actually, and being able to identify the plant first. Because if you identify the plant, then you can really start to identify the pest much easier.
00:25:30
Speaker 1: It helps a lot.
00:25:31
Speaker 4: And I know that you were just making that assumption already that we already know what the plant is, but I think it's a really important thing to know what you're.
00:25:40
Speaker 5: I agree.
00:25:40
Speaker 4: What plant you're dealing with. And then we identify the pest and then we develop a treatment plan or.
00:25:47
Speaker 5: If.
00:25:48
Speaker 4: Or not.
00:25:48
Speaker 3: Not.
00:25:49
Speaker 1: You're right.
00:25:50
Speaker 3: Right.
00:25:51
Speaker 1: So often when you, when you've identified the pest, the next step is like, okay, what to do about it? And many, many times you'll read, even in the chemical company books, is this is not a major pest. This is not something you have to worry about.
00:26:10
Speaker 5: Right.
00:26:11
Speaker 4: Some bugs are good.
00:26:11
Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of bugs are good. And some are just sort of incidental, you know.
00:26:15
Speaker 2: Right.
00:26:16
Speaker 1: And so, but when you get that red flag bug, it's like, yep, this is a devastating insect of this plant, you know. then you can look into what is the most effective treatment plan. Right.
00:26:29
Speaker 4: Well, and I think we just, as humans, get into this natural thing where we want to treat everything and we want to save everything. And sometimes just digging it out of the garden and throwing it in the compost pile or sending it.
00:26:45
Speaker 1: That is so true. If a plant is problematic year after year after year, get rid of that burden, you know, and just move on.
00:26:53
Speaker 4: I feel like it's one of the gifts of being a horticulturalist is identifying the right plan in the right place. And if something's taking that much extra work to keep alive in your garden, maybe, maybe there's something that could work there a little bit better. And that doesn't mean that you never treat anything or that we're not doing it. But I really think that this IPM concept, integrated pest management, where we're kind of looking at the big picture and not just saying, hey, there's a there's a bug, we got to kill it. Or there's a fungus, we got to spray it. There's lots of other ways to approach issues in the garden.
00:27:30
Speaker 1: And it's funny, you know, when you do need to treat, which is relatively rare, really, there are ways to do it often that don't involve a chemical at all. You know, bacillus thuringiensis.
00:27:44
Speaker 4: Bt.
00:27:45
Speaker 5: Bt.
00:27:45
Speaker 2: Yep.
00:27:46
Speaker 1: It seems like there's a Bt for almost every bug. And that's the important part. There are different Bt's. So what is a BT? It's a bacteria that kills mainly caterpillars, but other bugs.
00:27:58
Speaker 4: Mostly caterpillars, but it's really specific to that bug and not just killing the entire ecosystem when you put it down.
00:28:05
Speaker 1: Yeah, which is, you know, a wonderful approach. Because if you spray a broad-spectrum pesticide, you're killing the good guys. And, you know, at the zoo, we have learned over the years that, you know, the very fact that we have a diversity of plants that we never spray means we have a diversity of, uh, uh, good guys, the, the, the plants that pet or the, uh, insects that, uh, prey upon or, uh, parasitize the bad guys. And it just keeps things in balance. And you know, the fact is it, that's what worked in the, in the world for millions of years, you know, before any chemical company ever came around, And I'm not knocking chemicals. We need them sometimes. But just the diversity of plants and that diversity of insect populations, it balances itself.
00:28:58
Speaker 4: There's a lot of cool stuff that happens there. And that doesn't mean we don't need intervention just with humans too, right? Like we need sometimes our manufactured processes for handling medical issues are lifesavers. And it's the same thing in the horticulture world. There's some really good things, and it's all about how you use it and the approach and not overdoing things and not just these plans that I see some companies put out where we're just going to spray everything, a bug treatment plan or whatever, and they don't know what they're treating. They don't know what they're treating for, and it's just this general insecticide that's getting.
00:29:34
Speaker 1: Pumping it out there. Most times they're not using protection right or doing it on the right kind of day. You'll see them out there with wind blowing.
00:29:42
Speaker 4: 20 miles an hour.
00:29:43
Speaker 3: It's a wild world.
00:29:44
Speaker 1: Crazy.
00:29:44
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:29:45
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:29:45
Speaker 1: That drives me nuts to see that. Some more things they mentioned, learn the anatomy of a pesticide label. We were discussing this during the break. Pesticide labels could be much, much more- Uh, readable. User-friendly. User-friendly. Exactly. Uh, know the product name and the active ingredient. Uh, that's important because as people are learning right now, Roundup for many, many years was glyphosate.
00:30:13
Speaker 5: Right.
00:30:14
Speaker 1: People, there was, you know, people argued about the safety of glyphosate, but it's a pretty known factor that for humans, it's pretty safe, at least when, at the level of spot treating weeds in the garden.
00:30:26
Speaker 5: Right.
00:30:27
Speaker 1: Then they switched to Because I think a lot of the complaints, they switch to a new formula, which is much more worse in many ways. It stays in the soil. It harms other plants. You know, it's not safe for humans. And so if you want to use the old glyphosate, if you think you're using glyphosate when you buy Roundup, you aren't. And that was a change that showed up in that tiny little font on the label. That most people can't see and even fewer read.
00:31:02
Speaker 5: Right.
00:31:02
Speaker 4: Well, and I think there's just a lot that we just don't know. And less exposure is probably better.
00:31:09
Speaker 5: Right.
00:31:09
Speaker 4: In general, regardless of which chemical.
00:31:12
Speaker 1: Error on the side of caution. Yeah, that's right.
00:31:14
Speaker 4: Use your proper PPE. That's one of the things that should be front and center.
00:31:18
Speaker 1: Even for home gardeners.
00:31:20
Speaker 4: Even for home gardeners.
00:31:20
Speaker 1: Just using it a little bit. Wear gloves. Wear eye protection.
00:31:23
Speaker 2: Pants.
00:31:24
Speaker 5: Pants.
00:31:25
Speaker 4: You shouldn't be out there in your flip-flops, spraying it on your toes.
00:31:30
Speaker 1: But you see that too, a lot. Even in commercials, I've seen that where like the, the, the homeowner is using a pesticide or a, an herbicide and they're out there in shorts and sandals. That's kind of crazy.
00:31:44
Speaker 4: Well, you know, to each their own, I guess.
00:31:47
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:31:47
Speaker 1: Directions for use. You can use these product, this product on your plant and pest. So yeah, it will address what, what, plants you can use it on what it's effective on and what pests they're effective on and that's really uh i mean if you're spraying the wrong product you're you're doing harm maybe and no good.
00:32:08
Speaker 4: Right right right right for sure can be it can be a detriment and i would i would like to throw in a little fertilizer talk with this too oh sure yeah fertilizer labels can be extremely difficult to analyze and figure out, you know, it's this much per thousand square feet or whatever. It's like, who's like, and it is all math that we can figure out, but it is really difficult. And if you over apply fertilizer, you're salting your soil and burning it out. And you know, you're, uh, too much is not good. It's a, it's a detriment and, and figuring out how to read that label and how much to put down can is with the synthetic, uh, Fertilizers in particular can be really challenging.
00:32:49
Speaker 1: Let alone calibrating your drop feeder or your feeder or your sprayer. That gets into some serious math. Right.
00:32:56
Speaker 4: For homeowners, some of the organic options I think are really a lot better just because your risk of burning out plants with inorganic fertilizer is so much less than with the synthetics.
00:33:07
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:33:08
Speaker 1: Yeah, you really, first of all, just know if you need to fertilize in the first place. Right, right, right. A lot of times you just don't have to. Trees don't usually need fertilizer.
00:33:16
Speaker 4: Most things don't need it. It doesn't mean it can't help, but just willy-nilly throwing fertilizer down is not always a good thing.
00:33:24
Speaker 1: And the mantra is always get a soil test to know what nutrient you are deficient in, if any, and then maybe treat just for that nutrient. Because if you don't need phosphorus, and most people don't, It's just going to wash into the rivers and it becomes a pollution problem, you know, with algae and, you know, winds up in the Great Lakes. It winds up in the Gulf, wherever it goes. It's not good.
00:33:51
Speaker 4: There's definitely consequences to every action we take. No question.
00:33:56
Speaker 1: Yeah. You sound like a parent.
00:33:58
Speaker 4: Oh, well, I do have a kind of a kid.
00:34:01
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's a grown up kid. But you have the muscle memory thing going on.
00:34:05
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.
00:34:06
Speaker 1: There are consequences for your action, mister. Yep, that's right. The precautionary statements, protecting yourself, caution, warning, danger, danger, poison. These are all levels of toxicity of the product. And you really need to know it affects what PPE or personal protection you need to be wearing.
00:34:27
Speaker 3: Right.
00:34:27
Speaker 4: And you know, if you're wearing like the rubber gloves or the disposable gloves, nitrile is one of the things that you want with it to keep the chemical from, seeping in and out of the glove. So just cause you have a glove doesn't mean you've properly protected yourself.
00:34:42
Speaker 1: You know, this is going to make me sound stupid, but that's never stopped me before, but it was remarkably late in life that I realized that you can absorb chemicals through your skin.
00:34:52
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's right.
00:34:53
Speaker 1: And you can.
00:34:54
Speaker 4: Skin's an organ.
00:34:54
Speaker 1: Yeah. And it breathes and things can get in.
00:34:57
Speaker 4: Biggest organ on your body is your skin.
00:34:59
Speaker 1: Sweat can come out, chemicals can go in. So you want to wear a you know, the gloves and long sleeves. And if you're spraying above you, you want to cover your, your head as much as you could possibly do it. Uh, it it's, there's a lot to it that, you know, a lot of people don't realize. I think that's the point of this article is just, uh, getting this information out to people. It is the, um, it was put out by the garden professors. They, I think they're definitely have a Facebook page. They have a website. You just need to Google or look up the garden professors. And it's actually pretty entertaining a lot of times too. The information is not just presented, but sometimes it's presented in a humorous way. And because they are horticultural professors working for extension services, you know that the information is as reliable as it possibly can be. Not to say they haven't made mistakes in the past, but way more reliable for good information than just somebody on the internet or your buddy.
00:36:10
Speaker 4: Well, in theory, they're not trying to sell you anything.
00:36:12
Speaker 1: And they're not trying to sell you something.
00:36:13
Speaker 4: Which is the important part to me is there shouldn't be an inherent bias in there that creates them pushing you one way or the other, which is why I think that information coming from that particular source is a really good thing.
00:36:26
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:36:27
Speaker 1: So we need to take our final break. Man, the time flies when we do these shows. It's just so much fun. When we come back, we'll have Gary Sullivan joining us. That'll be a treat, as always. And we'll wrap this thing up. You're listening to Let's Guard with Scott Berline. We'll be back in just a few minutes.
00:36:56
Speaker 5: Hi, Gary Sullivan here. I'm always talking about Wet and Forget's mold and mildew removers, and now they have something new for the dirt and grime making your home look tired. Wet and Forget House Wash. Attach it to your hose, spray, wait one minute, and rinse for instant results. No scrubbing required. This bleach-free, color-safe formula covers up to 2,000 square feet. Find new Wet and Forget House Wash products at selected Walmart stores or online at walmart.com. Hey folks, Gary Selvin here. I've trusted Gutter Brush for 20 years. It's the easiest way to stop gutter clogs before they start. And right now you can save 25% and get free shipping with coupon code Gary25 at gutterbrush.com. No tools, no hassle, just slide it in and you're protected all season long. Now don't wait, this limited time offers end soon. That's gutterbrush.com, code Gary25, or call 888-397-9433.
00:38:28
Speaker 1: And welcome back. You're listening to Let's Garden with Scott Berline. Just to wrap up a few things, our Facebook page is up. And all the plants that we talked about, you can see pictures and information about. And I'll get links and some more information of other things we've talked about more recently up there for you to enjoy. That's Let's Garden with Scott Berline on Facebook. And now it is our time to talk with Gary Sullivan. Gary, good morning. How are you?
00:39:00
Speaker 5: Good morning.
00:39:01
Speaker 1: I'm fine.
00:39:01
Speaker 3: How are you, Scott?
00:39:02
Speaker 1: I'm doing all right.
00:39:03
Speaker 2: Wonderful.
00:39:04
Speaker 3: Yep.
00:39:04
Speaker 1: I've got a football game in my future.
00:39:06
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. You're running north today.
00:39:08
Speaker 1: Running north immediately after the show. I can't be on your show because I got to get flying. It's a two-hour drive and a 12 o'clock start.
00:39:16
Speaker 5: Well, you might have to hurry.
00:39:18
Speaker 1: But it's Ohio State at the SHU. My first time there. Oh, good for you. Yeah, so this is really exciting.
00:39:25
Speaker 5: Sure.
00:39:26
Speaker 1: And, yeah.
00:39:28
Speaker 3: That's wonderful. That's wonderful.
00:39:30
Speaker 1: Ohio state shirt on joe ready to rock and roll ready to rock and roll at the first big 10 game.
00:39:37
Speaker 5: No working in the garden this afternoon.
00:39:39
Speaker 1: Uh right yeah i put everything on a one day delay at the very.
00:39:45
Speaker 3: Least autopilot yeah Well, you don't have to water anything, that's for sure.
00:39:50
Speaker 1: No, no. We've had a couple dry days, beautiful days, absolutely gorgeous days. Yesterday was outstanding. But we had so much rain leading up to it. I think we can just relax on the hoses for a couple days.
00:40:04
Speaker 3: There's a water retention pond not far from my house, and I can always see it. And about two or three weeks ago, I mean, I don't know how big it is, but it's a big, big pond. That thing started out the spring, and it always does, totally filled. And by August of last year, it was virtually empty. There were little puddles on the floor of the lake.
00:40:29
Speaker 5: That was it.
00:40:31
Speaker 3: And then this spring, fills back up. And it was about right around the 1st of September. That thing was down to about, it was probably down 10 feet. And it's filled again. in one week it was filled so that's amazing.
00:40:51
Speaker 1: Last week we had ron rothis on and he's a weather buff and he he mentioned that ohio is the only state that's not in a drought condition and it's well we got everybody else's rain this year.
00:41:04
Speaker 3: Yeah well the northeast today with a nor'eastern oh they're catching up they're gonna catch up too because that's things just been sitting out there 50 mile an hour winds and A deluge of rain for probably the last four days and supposed to go through Monday.
00:41:18
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:41:19
Speaker 1: It looks, uh, it looks like it could be pretty bad.
00:41:22
Speaker 3: Yeah.
00:41:22
Speaker 1: For New York and, uh, New York city, the area and, and North.
00:41:26
Speaker 5: Sure.
00:41:26
Speaker 1: Uh, Virginia beach, even, and I was seeing some really like 15 foot waves yesterday or the day before.
00:41:32
Speaker 3: Is that right?
00:41:33
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:41:33
Speaker 1: And you know, that's two or three days before the storm even got, is getting there.
00:41:38
Speaker 5: Wow.
00:41:39
Speaker 3: I talked to my brother last night. He's in the mountains of North Carolina, uh, And he's getting his Jeep out, and he's got this big driving excursion today. And he goes, well, it's not really starting to change. It's kind of starting to change, but it's been so blue. I've got this whole drive all mapped out.
00:42:00
Speaker 1: He was all excited.
00:42:02
Speaker 5: And so we are getting to a very beautiful time of year.
00:42:05
Speaker 1: My favorite.
00:42:05
Speaker 3: And nature's going to put on its show. And I guess in our area, with the amount of rain, it should be a beautiful show.
00:42:11
Speaker 1: I guess. Yeah, I've never really correlated. how rainfall during the year or lack of it results in what kind of fall color. It seems like there's a question every year, but every year the fall color is pretty good. John's looking at me like he has an answer.
00:42:28
Speaker 4: I just think when it gets really droughty, you get a lot of early leaf drop. Yeah, that's true. And so you get a little less of that in a prosperous wet year.
00:42:37
Speaker 3: It also seems like it's not as brilliant. So with the rain, it'll probably be brilliant colors.
00:42:42
Speaker 5: At least I hope so.
00:42:43
Speaker 1: Me too.
00:42:44
Speaker 3: All right.
00:42:45
Speaker 4: Go Bucs.
00:42:45
Speaker 1: Everybody should stay tuned to your show. It's a great one at home with Gary Sullivan. Thanks for being here. John, thank you for being here today, helping. And I want to thank Rhiannon Hoeller and Peggy Ann Montgomery for being guests, callers, and listeners. Thank you. Danny Gleason produced the show perfectly. Thank you, Danny. And next week we'll have Sarah Geiger-Beam back and a turf specialist and Joe Boggs, and we'll have a great show too. So come back for that. Again, the Facebook page, we'll have all kinds of information and pictures. See you next week.
