WEBVTT
00:00.031 --> 00:03.496
[SPEAKER_04]: It's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are.
00:03.877 --> 00:18.057
[SPEAKER_04]: Listen on your smart speaker, live stream from our website at WFPK.org from Louisville Public Media.
00:25.242 --> 00:27.785
[SPEAKER_03]: and welcome to another edition of Kyle Meredith with.
00:28.206 --> 00:35.654
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the interview series presented by WFPK, a WFPK.org Consequence and the Consequence podcast network.
00:36.155 --> 00:37.997
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for making your way here for checking out the episode to do.
00:38.017 --> 00:39.919
[SPEAKER_03]: Hope you hit that subscribe button while you're hanging around.
00:39.939 --> 00:43.183
[SPEAKER_03]: You're going to get new interviews just like this one every single week.
00:43.604 --> 00:51.894
[SPEAKER_03]: From Spotify, Apple Podcast, NPR, WFPK.org Consequence, YouTube for the video versions or anywhere you get your podcast from.
00:51.954 --> 00:53.916
[SPEAKER_03]: You can subscribe to Kyle Meredith with.
00:53.896 --> 00:56.581
[SPEAKER_03]: and pleased to give this series a rating and leave a review.
00:57.443 --> 00:59.466
[SPEAKER_03]: Some great guests have been here lately.
00:59.506 --> 01:04.636
[SPEAKER_03]: We just spoke with Nico Kase about her newest record Midnight Gray, Neon Green.
01:05.317 --> 01:09.565
[SPEAKER_03]: We had Amy Man, Joe Henry, and over the Rhine Walker School Bell.
01:09.806 --> 01:16.478
[SPEAKER_03]: He stars as Percy Jackson in the Disney Plus series, Morgan Neville, the documentary in Behind 20 Feet from Start-Up.
01:16.458 --> 01:18.841
[SPEAKER_03]: Anthony Bourdain Roadrunner won't you be by neighbor.
01:18.921 --> 01:22.125
[SPEAKER_03]: He's back with breakdown 1975 on Netflix.
01:22.145 --> 01:26.450
[SPEAKER_03]: Emilu Harris, Lori Morgan, Ayanna Lee, from highest to lowest.
01:26.810 --> 01:28.993
[SPEAKER_03]: Paul Feig, the director of the house made.
01:29.013 --> 01:34.840
[SPEAKER_03]: We also talked with the run-around Darcy Kardon, Julian Hanfield, Luke Graham and the cast of Frago Rock.
01:34.880 --> 01:40.086
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just an example of what you get when you subscribe to the Kyle Meredith with podcast.
01:40.066 --> 01:41.188
[SPEAKER_03]: That's me Kyomere.
01:41.228 --> 01:48.277
[SPEAKER_03]: Today, it's going to be a special rewind episode, my conversations with Patula Clark and Don McLean.
01:48.317 --> 01:59.753
[SPEAKER_03]: Patula, British Pop Force, across the Atlantic back in the 60s, made elegance, Phil Radical, Stacking Hits, Stagework, and TV long before a crossover was a marketing term.
01:59.953 --> 02:07.103
[SPEAKER_03]: Then you've got Don McLean, the New York troubadour, who turned folk introspection into mass culture mythology.
02:07.083 --> 02:12.673
[SPEAKER_03]: writing songs that still get footnotes, arguments, and plenty of thing pieces, all these decades later.
02:13.274 --> 02:16.681
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to start with my conversation with Betula Clark.
02:17.081 --> 02:18.704
[SPEAKER_03]: This one goes back to 2017.
02:18.825 --> 02:28.382
[SPEAKER_03]: She had just released the record living for it today that we got to talk all about from recording most of the album in a tiny garden studio in London.
02:28.362 --> 02:40.496
[SPEAKER_03]: and working with her longtime collaborator, Tony Hatch, uh, on songs like Rainbow, uh, reflecting on the nerves and respect that came reworking classics like fever and the Beatles Black Bird.
02:40.976 --> 02:46.242
[SPEAKER_03]: Along the way, she also talked about what it's like to live with songs like downtown forever.
02:46.523 --> 02:50.667
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, it's a burden, but it's a gift that just keeps finding new lives.
02:51.228 --> 02:57.255
[SPEAKER_03]: All that a more, let's get
02:57.235 --> 02:57.796
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello.
02:57.816 --> 02:58.517
[SPEAKER_03]: How are you?
02:59.298 --> 03:02.925
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, considering it's rather early for me, I'm not too bad.
03:03.305 --> 03:05.128
[SPEAKER_01]: I came in from Montreal last night.
03:05.229 --> 03:09.035
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been recording back to back recording in a couple of weeks there.
03:09.255 --> 03:14.685
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I'm a bit sort of, well, as I say, I'm not a morning person, so anyway.
03:15.406 --> 03:19.092
[SPEAKER_01]: It's lucky that this is radio, not television.
03:19.510 --> 03:28.187
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's exciting to hear that you're back recording, but I guess what we're specifically talking about here is a re-release with new songs, right?
03:28.876 --> 03:47.247
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's a record that we made in London just a few months ago, and which was great fun to make, because it was done in a tiny studio about the size of, you know, a really small kitchen, but it was absolutely perfectly, you know, technically fantastic.
03:47.928 --> 03:52.977
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was at the bottom of the
03:52.957 --> 04:01.748
[SPEAKER_01]: really lovely English garden, you know, with roses and trees and birds and pussycaps chasing the birds and all that stuff.
04:01.768 --> 04:05.433
[SPEAKER_01]: But a really funky studio and that's where we made most of this album.
04:05.894 --> 04:10.840
[SPEAKER_01]: There are a couple more titles that we put on which were made here in New York.
04:11.080 --> 04:21.073
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, one is called the Rainbow, which I co-wrote with Tony Hatch, who incidentally wrote all as
04:21.053 --> 04:27.700
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other one's called Living for Today, which is the title of the album, which I co-wrote with my musical director.
04:27.820 --> 04:35.467
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a very interesting song where you start with this great groove with the anthem of Living for Today and then you hit that bridge.
04:36.408 --> 04:37.990
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's where the real knowledge is dropped.
04:38.490 --> 04:38.851
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
04:40.432 --> 04:43.415
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yes, just the bridge is interesting, yes.
04:43.776 --> 04:46.318
[SPEAKER_03]: Now did the song start with that idea or did it come later?
04:46.838 --> 05:06.552
[SPEAKER_01]: No, the song started with the, you know, the night this was sort of cute kind of opening a hay I got something to say and all that's that side of it, but then the bridge I wanted to go somewhere else musically and that's what my musical director helped me with that and then the lyric just came it I think it was in me and I just let it go.
05:06.785 --> 05:09.629
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's a frustration, many people are feeling these days.
05:10.150 --> 05:15.699
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so, you know, I hope it doesn't sound as if I'm preaching to people, because I'm certainly not.
05:15.739 --> 05:17.221
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just something that I feel.
05:17.542 --> 05:21.668
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, the other song you mentioned, Rainbow, you wrote that with Tony Hatch.
05:21.688 --> 05:23.712
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people are really interested in that collaboration.
05:24.232 --> 05:27.638
[SPEAKER_03]: You've written together of what so many times with huge success.
05:28.319 --> 05:31.003
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, what, that must be like writing with family at this point.
05:31.388 --> 05:34.815
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, sort of, you know, I love Tony.
05:35.036 --> 05:45.117
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't see each other that much, but I happen to be at his house in Minorca, which is an island, a Spanish island of the coast of Barcelona.
05:45.177 --> 05:50.629
[SPEAKER_01]: I think lovely, very nice, and he had a piano there, and I was fiddling around on the
05:50.609 --> 05:52.751
[SPEAKER_01]: the piano, he said, go on, right, right, write it.
05:52.851 --> 05:54.693
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever you're fiddling with it, just write it.
05:55.194 --> 05:57.216
[SPEAKER_01]: And he came in and he helped me out with it.
05:57.636 --> 06:01.140
[SPEAKER_01]: And there it is, the lyric is pretty well-mined.
06:01.380 --> 06:02.641
[SPEAKER_01]: He helped me out with the music.
06:02.942 --> 06:05.104
[SPEAKER_01]: It's certainly an optimistic song.
06:05.504 --> 06:07.406
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's kind of beautiful in its own way.
06:07.727 --> 06:08.768
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an uplifting song.
06:08.788 --> 06:10.970
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've been singing it on stage for some time.
06:11.510 --> 06:13.553
[SPEAKER_01]: But now we finally got it to record it.
06:13.813 --> 06:18.878
[SPEAKER_03]: And some of the other songs from the record, like fever sounds great the way you've rocked it up.
06:18.858 --> 06:27.372
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I was very hesitant about that, you know, because Peggy Lee of course that was her song and I loved Peggy And we became friends.
06:27.392 --> 06:30.998
[SPEAKER_01]: We used to sing together And I when the producer said, let's do fever.
06:31.018 --> 06:43.839
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know anything so and he said, I'll come on try it And no, no, no, and that sort of I went away for a day and came back and they had done the track and they put the track on I said, what's that?
06:43.859 --> 06:44.680
[SPEAKER_01]: She said, it's fever
06:44.660 --> 06:45.581
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
06:45.601 --> 06:47.043
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, he said, just try it.
06:47.143 --> 06:47.543
[SPEAKER_01]: Try it.
06:47.603 --> 06:51.728
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so I go up to my microphone and I had a little word with Peggy.
06:51.828 --> 06:54.431
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, she's left us some time ago, of course.
06:55.192 --> 06:58.516
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, hey, Peggy, girl, you know, I hope you don't mind me doing this.
06:59.056 --> 07:00.858
[SPEAKER_01]: This is yours, but I'm going to sing it for you.
07:00.898 --> 07:01.759
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
07:01.979 --> 07:03.121
[SPEAKER_01]: And we just went with it.
07:03.661 --> 07:07.866
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't try to sound like her, you know, nobody could sound like her anyway.
07:07.846 --> 07:11.816
[SPEAKER_03]: I imagine you have that relationship with a lot of songs because you knew a lot of these folks.
07:12.317 --> 07:15.626
[SPEAKER_03]: You cover Blackbird on here and you have your history with the Beatles.
07:16.548 --> 07:17.451
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you have to do that often?
07:17.491 --> 07:21.180
[SPEAKER_03]: Ask for inter-promotion to sing it because of who wrote it.
07:21.397 --> 07:24.742
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there again, it wasn't my idea, it was the producer's idea.
07:24.882 --> 07:28.387
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, everybody asks me to do a Beatles song, you know?
07:28.407 --> 07:31.172
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's that association, you know, the British thing.
07:31.752 --> 07:35.057
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have sung a lot of Beatles songs because they're great.
07:35.839 --> 07:37.581
[SPEAKER_01]: But I've never sung Blackbird.
07:37.701 --> 07:40.806
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's something that you don't hear often.
07:40.786 --> 07:59.807
[SPEAKER_01]: and I was a little nervous about that too because it's a very delicate song and I wanted to do it well so the producer put Paul's recording on and it was lovely of course and then we put it into my key that we were sort of creeping towards me singing it.
07:59.787 --> 08:04.457
[SPEAKER_01]: And I got in front of the microphone and I started singing it and I loved it.
08:04.537 --> 08:07.944
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually quite a complicated little song, but I love it.
08:08.024 --> 08:09.006
[SPEAKER_01]: I absolutely adore it.
08:09.026 --> 08:12.193
[SPEAKER_01]: I do it on stage and it's always a magic moment for me.
08:12.241 --> 08:13.623
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a really nice surprise when I heard it.
08:14.283 --> 08:22.492
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'll parallel that into one of your songs because Black Bird's been covered many times and your songs have been covered by so many.
08:23.013 --> 08:30.121
[SPEAKER_03]: And when you talk about a song like Downtown that even you've read done several times and you have these songs that follow you through your entire life.
08:30.461 --> 08:37.489
[SPEAKER_03]: Like what kind of relationship do you have with a song that's just their everyday forever and ever?
08:38.802 --> 08:44.673
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if it was a really nice song, you know, it was really kind of, oh, really don't, I really don't want to do this again.
08:45.214 --> 08:46.878
[SPEAKER_01]: It would be different, but you know, let's face it.
08:46.918 --> 08:48.000
[SPEAKER_01]: Downtown is a great song.
08:48.741 --> 08:52.889
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it's kind of, it just goes on and on.
08:53.030 --> 08:54.853
[SPEAKER_01]: It has a life of its own now.
08:54.833 --> 08:58.056
[SPEAKER_01]: Like so many of them couldn't live without your love.
08:58.076 --> 09:16.074
[SPEAKER_01]: It's being used in in England for Heathrow Airport for Christmas, you know, and it these songs are just they just go on forever and I think I'm blessed to have had them and still have them and I still sing them and I still sing them with great joy And we love hearing them.
09:16.554 --> 09:17.635
[SPEAKER_03]: I thank you for the songs.
09:17.695 --> 09:19.097
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for the conversation today.
09:19.137 --> 09:21.199
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you Enjoy that tour.
09:21.859 --> 09:22.680
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I will
09:23.116 --> 09:24.638
[SPEAKER_03]: And we'll be right back right after this.
09:26.019 --> 09:26.660
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, welcome back.
09:26.740 --> 09:27.741
[SPEAKER_03]: It's Kyle and Meredith.
09:27.781 --> 09:30.845
[SPEAKER_03]: Now part two of this special rewind episode.
09:31.365 --> 09:32.847
[SPEAKER_03]: My conversation with Don McLean.
09:32.867 --> 09:40.796
[SPEAKER_03]: And we talked back in 2018 about his long winding road to the record Botanical Gardens.
09:40.876 --> 09:46.363
[SPEAKER_03]: It was an album shaped by patients, rejected songs, shifting record deals.
09:47.264 --> 09:51.148
[SPEAKER_03]: He pushed back on being boxed in by songs like American Pie.
09:51.128 --> 10:04.947
[SPEAKER_03]: and Vincent, we talked a lot about his songwriting styles, as well as candidly about his politics and serity, legacy, and so much more, part two of the special rewind episode, it's Kyle Madeeth with Don McLean.
10:05.327 --> 10:11.476
[SPEAKER_03]: This new record, the Botanical Gardens, it's cool, it's great to hear you do in another album.
10:11.636 --> 10:19.667
[SPEAKER_03]: I know time passes a little bit longer these days between records as it does for any artist who's been through decades in their career.
10:19.647 --> 10:27.238
[SPEAKER_03]: That first single, you know, you kind of can't, you know, you're kind of known for coming from the folk scene, but it feels like it's got a little bit of a blues lean to it.
10:27.419 --> 10:30.503
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that something that's, were you a big blues fan grown up, too?
10:31.084 --> 10:35.270
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I have a lot of different influences in what it is that I do.
10:35.350 --> 10:47.308
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think that I've ever really been properly analyzed, you know, as the writer that I am and the performer that I am, because emphasis has always been on American
10:47.525 --> 11:17.143
[SPEAKER_00]: and really there's a whole lot more music going on than the styles that are in those two songs but I put out many albums that do many different things and there are also many different styles of songs on one record even this latest album has many different concepts you know rock and roll your baby and the lucky guy and those songs are kind of like old rock and roll and you know
11:17.393 --> 11:33.225
[SPEAKER_00]: a bluesy thing and you know there's trying to read is uh... and then there's i don't know what you call botanical gardens or totally clips of the sun those are rock and roll i guess so it's just all what i do you know it's kind of mixed up
11:33.543 --> 11:41.552
[SPEAKER_03]: of one of those songs that I'll mention by the way, when July comes, the melancholy feel of that like it's so theatrical in a way.
11:42.173 --> 11:48.260
[SPEAKER_03]: I kind of centered it on that and one of those songs you kind of get under your skin and crave more and more of the more you hear it.
11:48.740 --> 11:50.903
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that was an unusual song.
11:50.943 --> 11:53.466
[SPEAKER_00]: It was built off a guitar lick.
11:53.486 --> 12:00.073
[SPEAKER_00]: I read a lot of my songs on the guitar as I always have and it's an unusual one and it's
12:00.357 --> 12:05.041
[SPEAKER_00]: There are a few songs on the record that have just popped up out of nowhere and surprised me.
12:05.221 --> 12:08.144
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was fun and that said they're right in the album.
12:08.504 --> 12:13.128
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, you really want to keep the quality high.
12:13.569 --> 12:16.271
[SPEAKER_00]: And each song has got to be very good.
12:16.311 --> 12:18.453
[SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, you'd say, well, you know, forget that.
12:18.473 --> 12:19.474
[SPEAKER_00]: I won't do anything.
12:19.854 --> 12:20.755
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'll just wait.
12:21.395 --> 12:30.043
[SPEAKER_00]: It took a couple of years of writing and collecting songs and rejecting others.
12:30.277 --> 12:48.471
[SPEAKER_00]: and then the record deal was on and it was off so that lost another year almost two years on that so you know that explains partly why the time was so long but I have other stuff in the can now so if they want me more I'll have something else to follow it with.
12:48.552 --> 13:10.594
[SPEAKER_03]: with so many different styles as you talk about you know new ways of writing when you're going into a new record trying not to repeat yourself as you know a good artist will try to do does it become a challenge when you're this far in this many songs in this many albums in to find that new rock to you know to pick up no not really because
13:10.810 --> 13:40.412
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all I'm kind of directed by a certain inner road map of some kind and when it starts you know I'll say well Okay, I'm you know this this botanical garden idea sort of evolved and that's some other stuff happen some tracks were made I figured sound did nice it looks going studio make it more songs with the album with the guys the guys in the band
13:40.679 --> 13:49.790
[SPEAKER_00]: It went like that and then BMG really liked the record and wanted to put it out big surprise, you know, I didn't do it for a record deal or anything.
13:49.951 --> 13:53.135
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the next time around, there are a lot of thoughts.
13:53.455 --> 13:58.702
[SPEAKER_00]: The world is quite an interesting place right now in the sense that it is so irrational.
13:58.762 --> 14:01.065
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's challenging.
14:01.105 --> 14:07.733
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm always thinking about some new metaphor really to get my head around.
14:07.983 --> 14:12.028
[SPEAKER_00]: And once I do that, I find a way to go.
14:12.069 --> 14:16.094
[SPEAKER_00]: Another road map will appear and another album will probably happen.
14:16.334 --> 14:25.507
[SPEAKER_03]: I know a lot of artists are finding the challenge right now of writing things that are sort of reflective of what we're going through in all ways.
14:26.248 --> 14:36.201
[SPEAKER_03]: Back in the day and throughout your career, for instance, you played a lot of anti-war rallies, and I was wondering, does that carry over into the current politics of the day in your songwriting?
14:36.367 --> 15:00.501
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, because I think there's a lot of disingenuousness around now, and I think it was more sincere when we were dealing with our friends and buddies being killed and being numb to have people in Hollywood, addressing in black, if they suddenly discovered the casting couch after 60 years, I mean, is a laugh.
15:00.616 --> 15:22.945
[SPEAKER_00]: did you find yourself then facing that and asking do i want to write that song do i want to write the song about that well i can't i can't figure out what to you know i wouldn't do if i wanted to i can't quite figure out what to say you want to make sure that you write about about things that that really are going to last the things that you know
15:23.212 --> 15:40.579
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to say something about the four example, if you were to write a political song at a topical song, I think a more important one would be police brutality in some of these places around the country shooting a kid nine times as what his hands up.
15:40.728 --> 15:46.235
[SPEAKER_00]: If I were to write that kind of song, that would be more interesting topic than some of the stuff.
15:46.556 --> 15:49.539
[SPEAKER_03]: Turning, I guess, to less serious matters, and there's no easy way to do that.
15:50.321 --> 15:58.211
[SPEAKER_03]: Total eclipse, you know, you were mentioned that earlier, is there any chance that was spurred from last year's or just an impeccable timing?
15:58.231 --> 16:01.255
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, that's actually a true story.
16:01.295 --> 16:05.300
[SPEAKER_00]: It happened to me in 1963 and it happened on that weekend.
16:05.320 --> 16:08.704
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just, I've had that in the back of my mind for decades.
16:08.724 --> 16:10.667
[SPEAKER_00]: I decided to write a song.
16:10.715 --> 16:24.252
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm always surprised, I don't know why I'm surprised, but to hear, you know, when you hear about songs that have stuck around for that long for an artist, you know, that you didn't give up on it, that eventually that idea finally found its way out.
16:24.299 --> 16:47.438
[SPEAKER_00]: well it doesn't give up on you that's the thing you know i did i didn't want to think about that weekend you know for the rest of my life but it kept coming back in my head and remembering um... the whole the whole story and then when this album started coming together so well you know maybe it's time to actually try to do something with that uh... because it's it's in and we'll be right back right after this
16:48.447 --> 16:50.610
[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back, it's Kyle here with Don McLean.
16:51.471 --> 16:55.858
[SPEAKER_03]: And with that, my two botanical gardens, I mean, that stems from a real place, right?
16:56.278 --> 16:59.483
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I love gardens and I love flowers and I love the woods.
16:59.503 --> 17:00.785
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I live in the forest.
17:00.825 --> 17:02.767
[SPEAKER_00]: I live in the desert at California.
17:02.827 --> 17:06.753
[SPEAKER_00]: So I live in isolated, somewhat isolated places.
17:07.434 --> 17:08.776
[SPEAKER_00]: I love nature.
17:08.796 --> 17:10.318
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a bit of a pantheist.
17:10.338 --> 17:12.061
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you know what that word means.
17:12.181 --> 17:18.049
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I find God everywhere in nature.
17:18.316 --> 17:19.137
[SPEAKER_00]: Pantheism.
17:19.577 --> 17:21.219
[SPEAKER_00]: So that would be sort of what I am.
17:21.239 --> 17:32.792
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I often find, you know, solace by walking in gardens in, you know, New York City or wherever.
17:32.952 --> 17:36.416
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was in Sydney, Australia.
17:36.937 --> 17:43.224
[SPEAKER_00]: I always go for walks in those gardens there because they're right next to the Sydney Opera House.
17:43.384 --> 17:46.247
[SPEAKER_00]: And I usually stay there in a hotel near there.
17:46.227 --> 17:49.795
[SPEAKER_00]: And that whole idea just developed in my head.
17:50.076 --> 17:50.798
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a cool song.
17:51.098 --> 17:52.923
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, I actually have that, thank you.
17:53.203 --> 17:57.513
[SPEAKER_03]: Written there beside my notes, a metaphorical heaven, you know, in a sense.
17:57.574 --> 18:01.603
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it really, a Shangrelal or a heaven, or...
18:01.583 --> 18:08.651
[SPEAKER_00]: And after life or some kind of a dream notion of what perhaps the after life would be, I don't know.
18:08.671 --> 18:10.353
[SPEAKER_03]: Now I'm glad the way it happened.
18:10.473 --> 18:12.175
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, I'm so impressed by this record.
18:12.195 --> 18:14.517
[SPEAKER_03]: I really enjoyed listening to it all.
18:14.898 --> 18:15.298
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
18:16.059 --> 18:21.245
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like I said, I mean, I'll probably keep coming back to, I've got a lot of favorites on it.
18:21.265 --> 18:25.690
[SPEAKER_03]: But every time man, when July comes, they really feel like man already feel like that's when's a classic.
18:26.170 --> 18:28.873
[SPEAKER_03]: Personally speaking, I'm having a good connection to that one.
18:29.326 --> 18:57.595
[SPEAKER_00]: well thank you very much it's turned out very well as a record and the song is exactly what I wanted musically you know it's so hard to really capture something and what I try to do is visual visual as well as well it's a story and it's a character development but the visual aspect of the song
18:57.828 --> 19:20.241
[SPEAKER_00]: and the visual is of course enhanced by the the musical side of the song has to be it has to sing and be what I do as a very natural thing it's not like it's a composed piece of music it's it's it's comes from inside me and it's a very very natural
19:20.440 --> 19:21.343
[SPEAKER_00]: in that sense.
19:21.503 --> 19:27.160
[SPEAKER_00]: If I ever try to sit down and write, you know, a melody to a poem or a dude, do something like that.
19:27.220 --> 19:29.286
[SPEAKER_00]: It usually doesn't work out that well.
19:29.620 --> 19:36.166
[SPEAKER_00]: But if I have an idea like that, it just comes out in dramatic way because it's the kind of thing that it is.
19:37.147 --> 19:40.571
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, looking back at some of your classics, I don't think anybody's surprised in that.
19:41.512 --> 19:48.359
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, those have always been there in the ones that everybody's still seeing in this day that the way those stories paint the picture, you know, in the music.
19:48.759 --> 19:52.583
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I always surprise myself because I never know if I've ever going to do it again.
19:52.643 --> 19:58.969
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't think anybody is so confident that they think that since they did some nice work,
19:59.438 --> 20:14.019
[SPEAKER_00]: be able to repeat it, you know, many, many stories have happened in the, in the, in the, biographies of artists, of people who had a, when nice few moments and then never didn't damn thing again, you know, because it just couldn't, couldn't do it.
20:14.740 --> 20:15.401
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been lucky.
20:15.461 --> 20:23.252
[SPEAKER_00]: I've had a pretty good run where things would come to me and hasn't been a complete washout because it certainly could have been.
20:23.232 --> 20:35.350
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, if you don't mind me asking about one of those classics, I mean, with the movie Vincent having just premiered, I see, as usual, almost like clockwork, there's a renewed interest in people are covering that song again.
20:35.890 --> 20:37.032
[SPEAKER_03]: Does that make its way to you?
20:37.232 --> 20:39.075
[SPEAKER_03]: Every time do you also notice that?
20:39.596 --> 20:51.433
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm excited, you know, why the fact that, um, Ellie Goulding, I think, in James Blake, both did these beautiful versions of the song and the song is really out there in the wind and then the,
20:51.548 --> 21:06.132
[SPEAKER_00]: The original manuscript of the papers that I composed this song on are at the country music hall of fame right now on display and so there's something going on with that song these songs have a way of the
21:06.854 --> 21:07.915
[SPEAKER_00]: of reappearing.
21:08.356 --> 21:12.341
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is a particularly unique song.
21:12.361 --> 21:15.325
[SPEAKER_00]: I did, I did the right thing there.
21:15.405 --> 21:28.542
[SPEAKER_00]: It really, it carved out a person and that's the artistic niche, some sort that is a touchstone for people to come back to once in a while.
21:29.824 --> 21:36.152
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I have had a difficult time, and it's
21:36.520 --> 21:59.389
[SPEAKER_00]: music and personal struggles and getting things together and getting up off the counters, you know, keep struggling to make, you know, with record companies to put out albums and records that they didn't want or don't understand and then later on they did and, you know, all these stuff, you know, I've never had an open road and, you know,
21:59.757 --> 22:01.039
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes its toll.
22:01.540 --> 22:03.622
[SPEAKER_03]: I know music's not easy.
22:03.743 --> 22:06.867
[SPEAKER_03]: A music career is not easy for anyone with without hits.
22:07.348 --> 22:10.813
[SPEAKER_03]: So that you're still pumping out the songs that you are.
22:11.173 --> 22:12.174
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a great testament.
22:12.875 --> 22:16.340
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I see it like I have something I want to do for people.
22:17.121 --> 22:18.964
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I've devoted my life.
22:19.417 --> 22:34.157
[SPEAKER_00]: to doing this, there's a certain humanitarian aspect to this, so much of the music business is about money and more money and bigger places, louder and spring-steen and all this stuff.
22:34.858 --> 22:36.680
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not why I got into this.
22:37.782 --> 22:40.085
[SPEAKER_00]: I got into this to do something beautiful.
22:40.906 --> 22:48.917
[SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that I've been able to have a very nice career for many decades is tremendous gifts.
22:49.066 --> 22:55.960
[SPEAKER_03]: I had sort of a silly question to tag on here at the end and I'm going to go and go for it as I look back on a lot of the songs that you did write.
22:56.761 --> 23:00.128
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you ever wish that you would get some royalties for killing me softly?
23:02.593 --> 23:03.295
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't.
23:05.639 --> 23:08.164
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't want other people's royalties, I'm very, yeah.
23:10.088 --> 23:10.990
[SPEAKER_00]: But, uh,
23:11.290 --> 23:24.327
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been an interesting thing because that happened right around the time that and I love you so was number one with Tomo killing me softly was also going to be number one.
23:24.347 --> 23:38.125
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was in the same year and a lot of those you know the people like Johnny Mathis and Andy Williams and you know the pop singers recorded both of those on the same album which was kind of funny.
23:38.898 --> 23:42.603
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember seeing that, but that's just this story of me.
23:43.164 --> 24:07.538
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, one of the best things that ever came out of playing the Tributor in Los Angeles because I signed an agreement with Doug Wolfestin to be able to play their twice a year for like over five years thinking that, you know, he would be a nice thing to do as things went along and then all of a sudden American pie, you know, hit and I didn't want to be there at all, but I'd stay there, you know,
24:08.092 --> 24:15.642
[SPEAKER_00]: At the year I played twice a year, you know, and I was really, really a drag, but that came out of it.
24:16.123 --> 24:30.522
[SPEAKER_00]: Lori Lieberman came to the show and heard me sing empty chairs, and then wrote this poem on fact, which guys wrote the song, and they incorporated the ideas into the song, and so that's how I got into the picture.
24:31.042 --> 24:57.083
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a really cool thing to happen though, because one day you're just saying they're doing your job and it's got such an effect, as so many of your songs have on people, but it turns out that time produces its own amazing classic that the ripple effects on these things are uncountable, you know, you can't... Is that the reason why you don't think about immediate results, immediate reaction,
24:57.282 --> 24:58.847
[SPEAKER_00]: money, all that stuff.
24:58.867 --> 24:59.830
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't think that way.
24:59.910 --> 25:01.675
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm made into the long haul.
25:02.177 --> 25:06.229
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I like to do is, if I maybe I'll have something that gets a lot of attention.
25:06.682 --> 25:11.507
[SPEAKER_00]: and then maybe I'll have some seeds that I'll plant and they'll pop up 10 years from now.
25:11.988 --> 25:13.149
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's my approach.
25:13.790 --> 25:15.231
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, I'm grateful that you're doing it.
25:15.331 --> 25:16.593
[SPEAKER_03]: I appreciate everything you've done.
25:17.314 --> 25:18.355
[SPEAKER_03]: And thank you.
25:18.395 --> 25:21.398
[SPEAKER_03]: Grat to again on this record, it's a really fine record.
25:21.418 --> 25:22.239
[SPEAKER_03]: I really love it.
25:22.499 --> 25:23.540
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much.
25:24.281 --> 25:25.302
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know you mean that.
25:25.322 --> 25:29.787
[SPEAKER_00]: That means a lot to me because I haven't heard that from anybody and I'll inquire about it.
25:30.391 --> 25:40.368
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, my thanks to Don McLean, but Julia Clark and to you for checking out the episode hit that subscribe button while you're hanging around So you can get new interviews just like this one and sit your way every single week.
25:40.548 --> 25:54.913
[SPEAKER_03]: Spotify Apple podcast NPR WFPK dot org Consequence YouTube for the video versions or anywhere you get your podcast from you can subscribe to Kyle Meredith with Please to give this series a rating and leave a review wherever you're listing from
25:54.893 --> 26:04.024
[SPEAKER_03]: After that, you can head over to WFPK.org, right to a show, Monday through Friday, starting at 6 p.m. Eastern, four hours of classics from the 80s and 90s.
26:04.445 --> 26:08.811
[SPEAKER_03]: You get the best in new music, their bonus interviews, lots of music news as well.
26:08.851 --> 26:21.947
[SPEAKER_03]: In fact, one of my recent shows featured some classics and favorites from Nat King Cole, the Sheila Divine, Peter Gabriel, the
26:21.927 --> 26:34.305
[SPEAKER_03]: Kristen Kingfish, Ingram, Alejandro, Escavado, Jimmy Hendrix, Tory Amos, The Luminiers, and my conversations with actresses, Felicity, Jones, and Carrie Condon, and Joey McIntyre from New Kids on the Block.
26:34.726 --> 26:40.754
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, weeknight, six PM Eastern, that's when it starts at wfpk.org.
26:41.155 --> 26:47.744
[SPEAKER_03]: Consequence, as your music and film news, you can also find me on any of the social media sites, the dresses always at Kyle Meredith, please do like and follow along.
26:48.325 --> 26:51.630
[SPEAKER_03]: That does it for another edition, I'm Kyle Meredith, I'll see you next time.
27:04.807 --> 27:10.096
[SPEAKER_04]: Consequence podcast network, it's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are.
27:10.478 --> 27:16.572
[SPEAKER_04]: Listen on your smart speaker, live stream from our website at WFPK.org from Louisville Public Media.
00:00.031 --> 00:03.496
[SPEAKER_04]: It's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are.
00:03.877 --> 00:18.057
[SPEAKER_04]: Listen on your smart speaker, live stream from our website at WFPK.org from Louisville Public Media.
00:25.242 --> 00:27.785
[SPEAKER_03]: and welcome to another edition of Kyle Meredith with.
00:28.206 --> 00:35.654
[SPEAKER_03]: It's the interview series presented by WFPK, a WFPK.org Consequence and the Consequence podcast network.
00:36.155 --> 00:37.997
[SPEAKER_03]: Thanks for making your way here for checking out the episode to do.
00:38.017 --> 00:39.919
[SPEAKER_03]: Hope you hit that subscribe button while you're hanging around.
00:39.939 --> 00:43.183
[SPEAKER_03]: You're going to get new interviews just like this one every single week.
00:43.604 --> 00:51.894
[SPEAKER_03]: From Spotify, Apple Podcast, NPR, WFPK.org Consequence, YouTube for the video versions or anywhere you get your podcast from.
00:51.954 --> 00:53.916
[SPEAKER_03]: You can subscribe to Kyle Meredith with.
00:53.896 --> 00:56.581
[SPEAKER_03]: and pleased to give this series a rating and leave a review.
00:57.443 --> 00:59.466
[SPEAKER_03]: Some great guests have been here lately.
00:59.506 --> 01:04.636
[SPEAKER_03]: We just spoke with Nico Kase about her newest record Midnight Gray, Neon Green.
01:05.317 --> 01:09.565
[SPEAKER_03]: We had Amy Man, Joe Henry, and over the Rhine Walker School Bell.
01:09.806 --> 01:16.478
[SPEAKER_03]: He stars as Percy Jackson in the Disney Plus series, Morgan Neville, the documentary in Behind 20 Feet from Start-Up.
01:16.458 --> 01:18.841
[SPEAKER_03]: Anthony Bourdain Roadrunner won't you be by neighbor.
01:18.921 --> 01:22.125
[SPEAKER_03]: He's back with breakdown 1975 on Netflix.
01:22.145 --> 01:26.450
[SPEAKER_03]: Emilu Harris, Lori Morgan, Ayanna Lee, from highest to lowest.
01:26.810 --> 01:28.993
[SPEAKER_03]: Paul Feig, the director of the house made.
01:29.013 --> 01:34.840
[SPEAKER_03]: We also talked with the run-around Darcy Kardon, Julian Hanfield, Luke Graham and the cast of Frago Rock.
01:34.880 --> 01:40.086
[SPEAKER_03]: That's just an example of what you get when you subscribe to the Kyle Meredith with podcast.
01:40.066 --> 01:41.188
[SPEAKER_03]: That's me Kyomere.
01:41.228 --> 01:48.277
[SPEAKER_03]: Today, it's going to be a special rewind episode, my conversations with Patula Clark and Don McLean.
01:48.317 --> 01:59.753
[SPEAKER_03]: Patula, British Pop Force, across the Atlantic back in the 60s, made elegance, Phil Radical, Stacking Hits, Stagework, and TV long before a crossover was a marketing term.
01:59.953 --> 02:07.103
[SPEAKER_03]: Then you've got Don McLean, the New York troubadour, who turned folk introspection into mass culture mythology.
02:07.083 --> 02:12.673
[SPEAKER_03]: writing songs that still get footnotes, arguments, and plenty of thing pieces, all these decades later.
02:13.274 --> 02:16.681
[SPEAKER_03]: We're going to start with my conversation with Betula Clark.
02:17.081 --> 02:18.704
[SPEAKER_03]: This one goes back to 2017.
02:18.825 --> 02:28.382
[SPEAKER_03]: She had just released the record living for it today that we got to talk all about from recording most of the album in a tiny garden studio in London.
02:28.362 --> 02:40.496
[SPEAKER_03]: and working with her longtime collaborator, Tony Hatch, uh, on songs like Rainbow, uh, reflecting on the nerves and respect that came reworking classics like fever and the Beatles Black Bird.
02:40.976 --> 02:46.242
[SPEAKER_03]: Along the way, she also talked about what it's like to live with songs like downtown forever.
02:46.523 --> 02:50.667
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, it's a burden, but it's a gift that just keeps finding new lives.
02:51.228 --> 02:57.255
[SPEAKER_03]: All that a more, let's get
02:57.235 --> 02:57.796
[SPEAKER_01]: Hello.
02:57.816 --> 02:58.517
[SPEAKER_03]: How are you?
02:59.298 --> 03:02.925
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, considering it's rather early for me, I'm not too bad.
03:03.305 --> 03:05.128
[SPEAKER_01]: I came in from Montreal last night.
03:05.229 --> 03:09.035
[SPEAKER_01]: I've been recording back to back recording in a couple of weeks there.
03:09.255 --> 03:14.685
[SPEAKER_01]: So, I'm a bit sort of, well, as I say, I'm not a morning person, so anyway.
03:15.406 --> 03:19.092
[SPEAKER_01]: It's lucky that this is radio, not television.
03:19.510 --> 03:28.187
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's exciting to hear that you're back recording, but I guess what we're specifically talking about here is a re-release with new songs, right?
03:28.876 --> 03:47.247
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, it's a record that we made in London just a few months ago, and which was great fun to make, because it was done in a tiny studio about the size of, you know, a really small kitchen, but it was absolutely perfectly, you know, technically fantastic.
03:47.928 --> 03:52.977
[SPEAKER_01]: And it was at the bottom of the
03:52.957 --> 04:01.748
[SPEAKER_01]: really lovely English garden, you know, with roses and trees and birds and pussycaps chasing the birds and all that stuff.
04:01.768 --> 04:05.433
[SPEAKER_01]: But a really funky studio and that's where we made most of this album.
04:05.894 --> 04:10.840
[SPEAKER_01]: There are a couple more titles that we put on which were made here in New York.
04:11.080 --> 04:21.073
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, one is called the Rainbow, which I co-wrote with Tony Hatch, who incidentally wrote all as
04:21.053 --> 04:27.700
[SPEAKER_01]: And the other one's called Living for Today, which is the title of the album, which I co-wrote with my musical director.
04:27.820 --> 04:35.467
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a very interesting song where you start with this great groove with the anthem of Living for Today and then you hit that bridge.
04:36.408 --> 04:37.990
[SPEAKER_03]: And that's where the real knowledge is dropped.
04:38.490 --> 04:38.851
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes.
04:40.432 --> 04:43.415
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, yes, just the bridge is interesting, yes.
04:43.776 --> 04:46.318
[SPEAKER_03]: Now did the song start with that idea or did it come later?
04:46.838 --> 05:06.552
[SPEAKER_01]: No, the song started with the, you know, the night this was sort of cute kind of opening a hay I got something to say and all that's that side of it, but then the bridge I wanted to go somewhere else musically and that's what my musical director helped me with that and then the lyric just came it I think it was in me and I just let it go.
05:06.785 --> 05:09.629
[SPEAKER_03]: Well, it's a frustration, many people are feeling these days.
05:10.150 --> 05:15.699
[SPEAKER_01]: I think so, you know, I hope it doesn't sound as if I'm preaching to people, because I'm certainly not.
05:15.739 --> 05:17.221
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, it's just something that I feel.
05:17.542 --> 05:21.668
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, the other song you mentioned, Rainbow, you wrote that with Tony Hatch.
05:21.688 --> 05:23.712
[SPEAKER_03]: A lot of people are really interested in that collaboration.
05:24.232 --> 05:27.638
[SPEAKER_03]: You've written together of what so many times with huge success.
05:28.319 --> 05:31.003
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, what, that must be like writing with family at this point.
05:31.388 --> 05:34.815
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, sort of, you know, I love Tony.
05:35.036 --> 05:45.117
[SPEAKER_01]: We don't see each other that much, but I happen to be at his house in Minorca, which is an island, a Spanish island of the coast of Barcelona.
05:45.177 --> 05:50.629
[SPEAKER_01]: I think lovely, very nice, and he had a piano there, and I was fiddling around on the
05:50.609 --> 05:52.751
[SPEAKER_01]: the piano, he said, go on, right, right, write it.
05:52.851 --> 05:54.693
[SPEAKER_01]: Whatever you're fiddling with it, just write it.
05:55.194 --> 05:57.216
[SPEAKER_01]: And he came in and he helped me out with it.
05:57.636 --> 06:01.140
[SPEAKER_01]: And there it is, the lyric is pretty well-mined.
06:01.380 --> 06:02.641
[SPEAKER_01]: He helped me out with the music.
06:02.942 --> 06:05.104
[SPEAKER_01]: It's certainly an optimistic song.
06:05.504 --> 06:07.406
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it's kind of beautiful in its own way.
06:07.727 --> 06:08.768
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an uplifting song.
06:08.788 --> 06:10.970
[SPEAKER_01]: And I've been singing it on stage for some time.
06:11.510 --> 06:13.553
[SPEAKER_01]: But now we finally got it to record it.
06:13.813 --> 06:18.878
[SPEAKER_03]: And some of the other songs from the record, like fever sounds great the way you've rocked it up.
06:18.858 --> 06:27.372
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, I was very hesitant about that, you know, because Peggy Lee of course that was her song and I loved Peggy And we became friends.
06:27.392 --> 06:30.998
[SPEAKER_01]: We used to sing together And I when the producer said, let's do fever.
06:31.018 --> 06:43.839
[SPEAKER_01]: I didn't know anything so and he said, I'll come on try it And no, no, no, and that sort of I went away for a day and came back and they had done the track and they put the track on I said, what's that?
06:43.859 --> 06:44.680
[SPEAKER_01]: She said, it's fever
06:44.660 --> 06:45.581
[SPEAKER_01]: Mm-hmm.
06:45.601 --> 06:47.043
[SPEAKER_01]: I said, he said, just try it.
06:47.143 --> 06:47.543
[SPEAKER_01]: Try it.
06:47.603 --> 06:51.728
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, so I go up to my microphone and I had a little word with Peggy.
06:51.828 --> 06:54.431
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, she's left us some time ago, of course.
06:55.192 --> 06:58.516
[SPEAKER_01]: And I said, hey, Peggy, girl, you know, I hope you don't mind me doing this.
06:59.056 --> 07:00.858
[SPEAKER_01]: This is yours, but I'm going to sing it for you.
07:00.898 --> 07:01.759
[SPEAKER_01]: Okay.
07:01.979 --> 07:03.121
[SPEAKER_01]: And we just went with it.
07:03.661 --> 07:07.866
[SPEAKER_01]: So I don't try to sound like her, you know, nobody could sound like her anyway.
07:07.846 --> 07:11.816
[SPEAKER_03]: I imagine you have that relationship with a lot of songs because you knew a lot of these folks.
07:12.317 --> 07:15.626
[SPEAKER_03]: You cover Blackbird on here and you have your history with the Beatles.
07:16.548 --> 07:17.451
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you have to do that often?
07:17.491 --> 07:21.180
[SPEAKER_03]: Ask for inter-promotion to sing it because of who wrote it.
07:21.397 --> 07:24.742
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, there again, it wasn't my idea, it was the producer's idea.
07:24.882 --> 07:28.387
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, everybody asks me to do a Beatles song, you know?
07:28.407 --> 07:31.172
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, there's that association, you know, the British thing.
07:31.752 --> 07:35.057
[SPEAKER_01]: And I have sung a lot of Beatles songs because they're great.
07:35.839 --> 07:37.581
[SPEAKER_01]: But I've never sung Blackbird.
07:37.701 --> 07:40.806
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's something that you don't hear often.
07:40.786 --> 07:59.807
[SPEAKER_01]: and I was a little nervous about that too because it's a very delicate song and I wanted to do it well so the producer put Paul's recording on and it was lovely of course and then we put it into my key that we were sort of creeping towards me singing it.
07:59.787 --> 08:04.457
[SPEAKER_01]: And I got in front of the microphone and I started singing it and I loved it.
08:04.537 --> 08:07.944
[SPEAKER_01]: It's actually quite a complicated little song, but I love it.
08:08.024 --> 08:09.006
[SPEAKER_01]: I absolutely adore it.
08:09.026 --> 08:12.193
[SPEAKER_01]: I do it on stage and it's always a magic moment for me.
08:12.241 --> 08:13.623
[SPEAKER_03]: It was a really nice surprise when I heard it.
08:14.283 --> 08:22.492
[SPEAKER_03]: And I'll parallel that into one of your songs because Black Bird's been covered many times and your songs have been covered by so many.
08:23.013 --> 08:30.121
[SPEAKER_03]: And when you talk about a song like Downtown that even you've read done several times and you have these songs that follow you through your entire life.
08:30.461 --> 08:37.489
[SPEAKER_03]: Like what kind of relationship do you have with a song that's just their everyday forever and ever?
08:38.802 --> 08:44.673
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, if it was a really nice song, you know, it was really kind of, oh, really don't, I really don't want to do this again.
08:45.214 --> 08:46.878
[SPEAKER_01]: It would be different, but you know, let's face it.
08:46.918 --> 08:48.000
[SPEAKER_01]: Downtown is a great song.
08:48.741 --> 08:52.889
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it's kind of, it just goes on and on.
08:53.030 --> 08:54.853
[SPEAKER_01]: It has a life of its own now.
08:54.833 --> 08:58.056
[SPEAKER_01]: Like so many of them couldn't live without your love.
08:58.076 --> 09:16.074
[SPEAKER_01]: It's being used in in England for Heathrow Airport for Christmas, you know, and it these songs are just they just go on forever and I think I'm blessed to have had them and still have them and I still sing them and I still sing them with great joy And we love hearing them.
09:16.554 --> 09:17.635
[SPEAKER_03]: I thank you for the songs.
09:17.695 --> 09:19.097
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you for the conversation today.
09:19.137 --> 09:21.199
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you Enjoy that tour.
09:21.859 --> 09:22.680
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, I will
09:23.116 --> 09:24.638
[SPEAKER_03]: And we'll be right back right after this.
09:26.019 --> 09:26.660
[SPEAKER_03]: All right, welcome back.
09:26.740 --> 09:27.741
[SPEAKER_03]: It's Kyle and Meredith.
09:27.781 --> 09:30.845
[SPEAKER_03]: Now part two of this special rewind episode.
09:31.365 --> 09:32.847
[SPEAKER_03]: My conversation with Don McLean.
09:32.867 --> 09:40.796
[SPEAKER_03]: And we talked back in 2018 about his long winding road to the record Botanical Gardens.
09:40.876 --> 09:46.363
[SPEAKER_03]: It was an album shaped by patients, rejected songs, shifting record deals.
09:47.264 --> 09:51.148
[SPEAKER_03]: He pushed back on being boxed in by songs like American Pie.
09:51.128 --> 10:04.947
[SPEAKER_03]: and Vincent, we talked a lot about his songwriting styles, as well as candidly about his politics and serity, legacy, and so much more, part two of the special rewind episode, it's Kyle Madeeth with Don McLean.
10:05.327 --> 10:11.476
[SPEAKER_03]: This new record, the Botanical Gardens, it's cool, it's great to hear you do in another album.
10:11.636 --> 10:19.667
[SPEAKER_03]: I know time passes a little bit longer these days between records as it does for any artist who's been through decades in their career.
10:19.647 --> 10:27.238
[SPEAKER_03]: That first single, you know, you kind of can't, you know, you're kind of known for coming from the folk scene, but it feels like it's got a little bit of a blues lean to it.
10:27.419 --> 10:30.503
[SPEAKER_03]: Is that something that's, were you a big blues fan grown up, too?
10:31.084 --> 10:35.270
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I have a lot of different influences in what it is that I do.
10:35.350 --> 10:47.308
[SPEAKER_00]: And I don't think that I've ever really been properly analyzed, you know, as the writer that I am and the performer that I am, because emphasis has always been on American
10:47.525 --> 11:17.143
[SPEAKER_00]: and really there's a whole lot more music going on than the styles that are in those two songs but I put out many albums that do many different things and there are also many different styles of songs on one record even this latest album has many different concepts you know rock and roll your baby and the lucky guy and those songs are kind of like old rock and roll and you know
11:17.393 --> 11:33.225
[SPEAKER_00]: a bluesy thing and you know there's trying to read is uh... and then there's i don't know what you call botanical gardens or totally clips of the sun those are rock and roll i guess so it's just all what i do you know it's kind of mixed up
11:33.543 --> 11:41.552
[SPEAKER_03]: of one of those songs that I'll mention by the way, when July comes, the melancholy feel of that like it's so theatrical in a way.
11:42.173 --> 11:48.260
[SPEAKER_03]: I kind of centered it on that and one of those songs you kind of get under your skin and crave more and more of the more you hear it.
11:48.740 --> 11:50.903
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes, that was an unusual song.
11:50.943 --> 11:53.466
[SPEAKER_00]: It was built off a guitar lick.
11:53.486 --> 12:00.073
[SPEAKER_00]: I read a lot of my songs on the guitar as I always have and it's an unusual one and it's
12:00.357 --> 12:05.041
[SPEAKER_00]: There are a few songs on the record that have just popped up out of nowhere and surprised me.
12:05.221 --> 12:08.144
[SPEAKER_00]: So it was fun and that said they're right in the album.
12:08.504 --> 12:13.128
[SPEAKER_00]: But you know, you really want to keep the quality high.
12:13.569 --> 12:16.271
[SPEAKER_00]: And each song has got to be very good.
12:16.311 --> 12:18.453
[SPEAKER_00]: Otherwise, you'd say, well, you know, forget that.
12:18.473 --> 12:19.474
[SPEAKER_00]: I won't do anything.
12:19.854 --> 12:20.755
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I'll just wait.
12:21.395 --> 12:30.043
[SPEAKER_00]: It took a couple of years of writing and collecting songs and rejecting others.
12:30.277 --> 12:48.471
[SPEAKER_00]: and then the record deal was on and it was off so that lost another year almost two years on that so you know that explains partly why the time was so long but I have other stuff in the can now so if they want me more I'll have something else to follow it with.
12:48.552 --> 13:10.594
[SPEAKER_03]: with so many different styles as you talk about you know new ways of writing when you're going into a new record trying not to repeat yourself as you know a good artist will try to do does it become a challenge when you're this far in this many songs in this many albums in to find that new rock to you know to pick up no not really because
13:10.810 --> 13:40.412
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all I'm kind of directed by a certain inner road map of some kind and when it starts you know I'll say well Okay, I'm you know this this botanical garden idea sort of evolved and that's some other stuff happen some tracks were made I figured sound did nice it looks going studio make it more songs with the album with the guys the guys in the band
13:40.679 --> 13:49.790
[SPEAKER_00]: It went like that and then BMG really liked the record and wanted to put it out big surprise, you know, I didn't do it for a record deal or anything.
13:49.951 --> 13:53.135
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the next time around, there are a lot of thoughts.
13:53.455 --> 13:58.702
[SPEAKER_00]: The world is quite an interesting place right now in the sense that it is so irrational.
13:58.762 --> 14:01.065
[SPEAKER_00]: So it's challenging.
14:01.105 --> 14:07.733
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm always thinking about some new metaphor really to get my head around.
14:07.983 --> 14:12.028
[SPEAKER_00]: And once I do that, I find a way to go.
14:12.069 --> 14:16.094
[SPEAKER_00]: Another road map will appear and another album will probably happen.
14:16.334 --> 14:25.507
[SPEAKER_03]: I know a lot of artists are finding the challenge right now of writing things that are sort of reflective of what we're going through in all ways.
14:26.248 --> 14:36.201
[SPEAKER_03]: Back in the day and throughout your career, for instance, you played a lot of anti-war rallies, and I was wondering, does that carry over into the current politics of the day in your songwriting?
14:36.367 --> 15:00.501
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, no, because I think there's a lot of disingenuousness around now, and I think it was more sincere when we were dealing with our friends and buddies being killed and being numb to have people in Hollywood, addressing in black, if they suddenly discovered the casting couch after 60 years, I mean, is a laugh.
15:00.616 --> 15:22.945
[SPEAKER_00]: did you find yourself then facing that and asking do i want to write that song do i want to write the song about that well i can't i can't figure out what to you know i wouldn't do if i wanted to i can't quite figure out what to say you want to make sure that you write about about things that that really are going to last the things that you know
15:23.212 --> 15:40.579
[SPEAKER_00]: You want to say something about the four example, if you were to write a political song at a topical song, I think a more important one would be police brutality in some of these places around the country shooting a kid nine times as what his hands up.
15:40.728 --> 15:46.235
[SPEAKER_00]: If I were to write that kind of song, that would be more interesting topic than some of the stuff.
15:46.556 --> 15:49.539
[SPEAKER_03]: Turning, I guess, to less serious matters, and there's no easy way to do that.
15:50.321 --> 15:58.211
[SPEAKER_03]: Total eclipse, you know, you were mentioned that earlier, is there any chance that was spurred from last year's or just an impeccable timing?
15:58.231 --> 16:01.255
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, no, that's actually a true story.
16:01.295 --> 16:05.300
[SPEAKER_00]: It happened to me in 1963 and it happened on that weekend.
16:05.320 --> 16:08.704
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just, I've had that in the back of my mind for decades.
16:08.724 --> 16:10.667
[SPEAKER_00]: I decided to write a song.
16:10.715 --> 16:24.252
[SPEAKER_03]: I'm always surprised, I don't know why I'm surprised, but to hear, you know, when you hear about songs that have stuck around for that long for an artist, you know, that you didn't give up on it, that eventually that idea finally found its way out.
16:24.299 --> 16:47.438
[SPEAKER_00]: well it doesn't give up on you that's the thing you know i did i didn't want to think about that weekend you know for the rest of my life but it kept coming back in my head and remembering um... the whole the whole story and then when this album started coming together so well you know maybe it's time to actually try to do something with that uh... because it's it's in and we'll be right back right after this
16:48.447 --> 16:50.610
[SPEAKER_03]: Welcome back, it's Kyle here with Don McLean.
16:51.471 --> 16:55.858
[SPEAKER_03]: And with that, my two botanical gardens, I mean, that stems from a real place, right?
16:56.278 --> 16:59.483
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I mean, I love gardens and I love flowers and I love the woods.
16:59.503 --> 17:00.785
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I live in the forest.
17:00.825 --> 17:02.767
[SPEAKER_00]: I live in the desert at California.
17:02.827 --> 17:06.753
[SPEAKER_00]: So I live in isolated, somewhat isolated places.
17:07.434 --> 17:08.776
[SPEAKER_00]: I love nature.
17:08.796 --> 17:10.318
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a bit of a pantheist.
17:10.338 --> 17:12.061
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know if you know what that word means.
17:12.181 --> 17:18.049
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I find God everywhere in nature.
17:18.316 --> 17:19.137
[SPEAKER_00]: Pantheism.
17:19.577 --> 17:21.219
[SPEAKER_00]: So that would be sort of what I am.
17:21.239 --> 17:32.792
[SPEAKER_00]: And so I often find, you know, solace by walking in gardens in, you know, New York City or wherever.
17:32.952 --> 17:36.416
[SPEAKER_00]: And this was in Sydney, Australia.
17:36.937 --> 17:43.224
[SPEAKER_00]: I always go for walks in those gardens there because they're right next to the Sydney Opera House.
17:43.384 --> 17:46.247
[SPEAKER_00]: And I usually stay there in a hotel near there.
17:46.227 --> 17:49.795
[SPEAKER_00]: And that whole idea just developed in my head.
17:50.076 --> 17:50.798
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a cool song.
17:51.098 --> 17:52.923
[SPEAKER_03]: And, you know, I actually have that, thank you.
17:53.203 --> 17:57.513
[SPEAKER_03]: Written there beside my notes, a metaphorical heaven, you know, in a sense.
17:57.574 --> 18:01.603
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, it really, a Shangrelal or a heaven, or...
18:01.583 --> 18:08.651
[SPEAKER_00]: And after life or some kind of a dream notion of what perhaps the after life would be, I don't know.
18:08.671 --> 18:10.353
[SPEAKER_03]: Now I'm glad the way it happened.
18:10.473 --> 18:12.175
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, I'm so impressed by this record.
18:12.195 --> 18:14.517
[SPEAKER_03]: I really enjoyed listening to it all.
18:14.898 --> 18:15.298
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
18:16.059 --> 18:21.245
[SPEAKER_03]: Yeah, like I said, I mean, I'll probably keep coming back to, I've got a lot of favorites on it.
18:21.265 --> 18:25.690
[SPEAKER_03]: But every time man, when July comes, they really feel like man already feel like that's when's a classic.
18:26.170 --> 18:28.873
[SPEAKER_03]: Personally speaking, I'm having a good connection to that one.
18:29.326 --> 18:57.595
[SPEAKER_00]: well thank you very much it's turned out very well as a record and the song is exactly what I wanted musically you know it's so hard to really capture something and what I try to do is visual visual as well as well it's a story and it's a character development but the visual aspect of the song
18:57.828 --> 19:20.241
[SPEAKER_00]: and the visual is of course enhanced by the the musical side of the song has to be it has to sing and be what I do as a very natural thing it's not like it's a composed piece of music it's it's it's comes from inside me and it's a very very natural
19:20.440 --> 19:21.343
[SPEAKER_00]: in that sense.
19:21.503 --> 19:27.160
[SPEAKER_00]: If I ever try to sit down and write, you know, a melody to a poem or a dude, do something like that.
19:27.220 --> 19:29.286
[SPEAKER_00]: It usually doesn't work out that well.
19:29.620 --> 19:36.166
[SPEAKER_00]: But if I have an idea like that, it just comes out in dramatic way because it's the kind of thing that it is.
19:37.147 --> 19:40.571
[SPEAKER_03]: I mean, looking back at some of your classics, I don't think anybody's surprised in that.
19:41.512 --> 19:48.359
[SPEAKER_03]: You know, those have always been there in the ones that everybody's still seeing in this day that the way those stories paint the picture, you know, in the music.
19:48.759 --> 19:52.583
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I always surprise myself because I never know if I've ever going to do it again.
19:52.643 --> 19:58.969
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, I don't think anybody is so confident that they think that since they did some nice work,
19:59.438 --> 20:14.019
[SPEAKER_00]: be able to repeat it, you know, many, many stories have happened in the, in the, in the, biographies of artists, of people who had a, when nice few moments and then never didn't damn thing again, you know, because it just couldn't, couldn't do it.
20:14.740 --> 20:15.401
[SPEAKER_00]: I've been lucky.
20:15.461 --> 20:23.252
[SPEAKER_00]: I've had a pretty good run where things would come to me and hasn't been a complete washout because it certainly could have been.
20:23.232 --> 20:35.350
[SPEAKER_03]: Now, if you don't mind me asking about one of those classics, I mean, with the movie Vincent having just premiered, I see, as usual, almost like clockwork, there's a renewed interest in people are covering that song again.
20:35.890 --> 20:37.032
[SPEAKER_03]: Does that make its way to you?
20:37.232 --> 20:39.075
[SPEAKER_03]: Every time do you also notice that?
20:39.596 --> 20:51.433
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I'm excited, you know, why the fact that, um, Ellie Goulding, I think, in James Blake, both did these beautiful versions of the song and the song is really out there in the wind and then the,
20:51.548 --> 21:06.132
[SPEAKER_00]: The original manuscript of the papers that I composed this song on are at the country music hall of fame right now on display and so there's something going on with that song these songs have a way of the
21:06.854 --> 21:07.915
[SPEAKER_00]: of reappearing.
21:08.356 --> 21:12.341
[SPEAKER_00]: And that is a particularly unique song.
21:12.361 --> 21:15.325
[SPEAKER_00]: I did, I did the right thing there.
21:15.405 --> 21:28.542
[SPEAKER_00]: It really, it carved out a person and that's the artistic niche, some sort that is a touchstone for people to come back to once in a while.
21:29.824 --> 21:36.152
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, I have had a difficult time, and it's
21:36.520 --> 21:59.389
[SPEAKER_00]: music and personal struggles and getting things together and getting up off the counters, you know, keep struggling to make, you know, with record companies to put out albums and records that they didn't want or don't understand and then later on they did and, you know, all these stuff, you know, I've never had an open road and, you know,
21:59.757 --> 22:01.039
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes its toll.
22:01.540 --> 22:03.622
[SPEAKER_03]: I know music's not easy.
22:03.743 --> 22:06.867
[SPEAKER_03]: A music career is not easy for anyone with without hits.
22:07.348 --> 22:10.813
[SPEAKER_03]: So that you're still pumping out the songs that you are.
22:11.173 --> 22:12.174
[SPEAKER_03]: I think it's a great testament.
22:12.875 --> 22:16.340
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, I see it like I have something I want to do for people.
22:17.121 --> 22:18.964
[SPEAKER_00]: That's why I've devoted my life.
22:19.417 --> 22:34.157
[SPEAKER_00]: to doing this, there's a certain humanitarian aspect to this, so much of the music business is about money and more money and bigger places, louder and spring-steen and all this stuff.
22:34.858 --> 22:36.680
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's not why I got into this.
22:37.782 --> 22:40.085
[SPEAKER_00]: I got into this to do something beautiful.
22:40.906 --> 22:48.917
[SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that I've been able to have a very nice career for many decades is tremendous gifts.
22:49.066 --> 22:55.960
[SPEAKER_03]: I had sort of a silly question to tag on here at the end and I'm going to go and go for it as I look back on a lot of the songs that you did write.
22:56.761 --> 23:00.128
[SPEAKER_03]: Do you ever wish that you would get some royalties for killing me softly?
23:02.593 --> 23:03.295
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't.
23:05.639 --> 23:08.164
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I don't want other people's royalties, I'm very, yeah.
23:10.088 --> 23:10.990
[SPEAKER_00]: But, uh,
23:11.290 --> 23:24.327
[SPEAKER_00]: It's been an interesting thing because that happened right around the time that and I love you so was number one with Tomo killing me softly was also going to be number one.
23:24.347 --> 23:38.125
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was in the same year and a lot of those you know the people like Johnny Mathis and Andy Williams and you know the pop singers recorded both of those on the same album which was kind of funny.
23:38.898 --> 23:42.603
[SPEAKER_00]: I remember seeing that, but that's just this story of me.
23:43.164 --> 24:07.538
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, one of the best things that ever came out of playing the Tributor in Los Angeles because I signed an agreement with Doug Wolfestin to be able to play their twice a year for like over five years thinking that, you know, he would be a nice thing to do as things went along and then all of a sudden American pie, you know, hit and I didn't want to be there at all, but I'd stay there, you know,
24:08.092 --> 24:15.642
[SPEAKER_00]: At the year I played twice a year, you know, and I was really, really a drag, but that came out of it.
24:16.123 --> 24:30.522
[SPEAKER_00]: Lori Lieberman came to the show and heard me sing empty chairs, and then wrote this poem on fact, which guys wrote the song, and they incorporated the ideas into the song, and so that's how I got into the picture.
24:31.042 --> 24:57.083
[SPEAKER_03]: That's a really cool thing to happen though, because one day you're just saying they're doing your job and it's got such an effect, as so many of your songs have on people, but it turns out that time produces its own amazing classic that the ripple effects on these things are uncountable, you know, you can't... Is that the reason why you don't think about immediate results, immediate reaction,
24:57.282 --> 24:58.847
[SPEAKER_00]: money, all that stuff.
24:58.867 --> 24:59.830
[SPEAKER_00]: You don't think that way.
24:59.910 --> 25:01.675
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm made into the long haul.
25:02.177 --> 25:06.229
[SPEAKER_00]: And what I like to do is, if I maybe I'll have something that gets a lot of attention.
25:06.682 --> 25:11.507
[SPEAKER_00]: and then maybe I'll have some seeds that I'll plant and they'll pop up 10 years from now.
25:11.988 --> 25:13.149
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's my approach.
25:13.790 --> 25:15.231
[SPEAKER_03]: Like I said, I'm grateful that you're doing it.
25:15.331 --> 25:16.593
[SPEAKER_03]: I appreciate everything you've done.
25:17.314 --> 25:18.355
[SPEAKER_03]: And thank you.
25:18.395 --> 25:21.398
[SPEAKER_03]: Grat to again on this record, it's a really fine record.
25:21.418 --> 25:22.239
[SPEAKER_03]: I really love it.
25:22.499 --> 25:23.540
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you very much.
25:24.281 --> 25:25.302
[SPEAKER_00]: And I know you mean that.
25:25.322 --> 25:29.787
[SPEAKER_00]: That means a lot to me because I haven't heard that from anybody and I'll inquire about it.
25:30.391 --> 25:40.368
[SPEAKER_03]: Thank you, my thanks to Don McLean, but Julia Clark and to you for checking out the episode hit that subscribe button while you're hanging around So you can get new interviews just like this one and sit your way every single week.
25:40.548 --> 25:54.913
[SPEAKER_03]: Spotify Apple podcast NPR WFPK dot org Consequence YouTube for the video versions or anywhere you get your podcast from you can subscribe to Kyle Meredith with Please to give this series a rating and leave a review wherever you're listing from
25:54.893 --> 26:04.024
[SPEAKER_03]: After that, you can head over to WFPK.org, right to a show, Monday through Friday, starting at 6 p.m. Eastern, four hours of classics from the 80s and 90s.
26:04.445 --> 26:08.811
[SPEAKER_03]: You get the best in new music, their bonus interviews, lots of music news as well.
26:08.851 --> 26:21.947
[SPEAKER_03]: In fact, one of my recent shows featured some classics and favorites from Nat King Cole, the Sheila Divine, Peter Gabriel, the
26:21.927 --> 26:34.305
[SPEAKER_03]: Kristen Kingfish, Ingram, Alejandro, Escavado, Jimmy Hendrix, Tory Amos, The Luminiers, and my conversations with actresses, Felicity, Jones, and Carrie Condon, and Joey McIntyre from New Kids on the Block.
26:34.726 --> 26:40.754
[SPEAKER_03]: Again, weeknight, six PM Eastern, that's when it starts at wfpk.org.
26:41.155 --> 26:47.744
[SPEAKER_03]: Consequence, as your music and film news, you can also find me on any of the social media sites, the dresses always at Kyle Meredith, please do like and follow along.
26:48.325 --> 26:51.630
[SPEAKER_03]: That does it for another edition, I'm Kyle Meredith, I'll see you next time.
27:04.807 --> 27:10.096
[SPEAKER_04]: Consequence podcast network, it's easy to hear your favorite artist on WFPK from wherever you are.
27:10.478 --> 27:16.572
[SPEAKER_04]: Listen on your smart speaker, live stream from our website at WFPK.org from Louisville Public Media.
