#582: Chattin' With Jared

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Speaker 1: N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N-N Dan and Jordan, I am sweating.
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Speaker 2: Knowledgefight.com. It's time to pray.
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Speaker 3: I have great respect for Knowledge Fight.
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Speaker 2: Knowledge Fight.
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Speaker 1: I'm sick of them posing as if they're the good guys, saying we are the bad guys.
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Speaker 2: Knowledge Fight.
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Speaker 4: Dan and Jordan.
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Speaker 5: Knowledge Fight.
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Speaker 4: Need money.
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Speaker 1: Hey everybody welcome back to knowledge fight boy you do not recognize.
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Speaker 2: How long that theme song is until you're sitting.
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Speaker 4: Across the room from someone.
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Speaker 2: Who didn't know that it was probably going to play as we were starting the show. So, hey, everybody, here's the thing. Jordan is still on vacation until Monday. He gets back on Monday, but we need to have an episode for Monday. And so I was in a little bit of a pickle. And thankfully, someone's in town visiting. And this is a person who, a friend of the show, I would say. I think that's fair. You've been on before remotely, although this is the first time. We've met in person on this trip, someone who's Brian Stelter's new best friend, just recently made a debut on Reliable Sources, Jared Holt. Welcome.
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Speaker 3: Dan, thanks so much. Yeah, we've been in contact through the years, but here I am in HQ, Kat's here.
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Speaker 2: True.
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Speaker 3: Theme song has got me all pumped up in the headphones. Like, I'm ready to go.
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Speaker 2: I know that you're somebody who gets amped. And so, like, I wanted to really try and bring that energy out of you with the theme song.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, it's Jared Holt, notorious hype guy.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. You're like the DJ Khaled of right-wing researchers.
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Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. I don't know about that, but.
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Speaker 2: Well, that's not the right example. I feel like He has gone from somebody who was known for being the guy who would yell on tracks to the guy who does not perform oral sex on women. I feel like his whole reputation changed in that... Anyway, we're off track.
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Speaker 3: I thought this was a show about InfoWars.
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Speaker 2: It is. It is. Somewhat. It's always a little bit challenging to figure out exactly what the show is without one half of it. Whenever... Whenever I have a conversation with somebody else, it's like, what do we do? But I think this is going to be a little bit different since I think you and I have fairly similar mentalities, at least similar worlds of focus. We both look at a lot of the same kind of right-wing media landscape and do a lot of criticism about it. And I think that will provide a lot of interesting insights. Yeah, I hope so.
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Speaker 3: I mean, you and I have kind of a similar approach where we're very clinical about it. I don't know. It's very easy to get upset or frustrated with this kind of stuff, but you and I both share the gift and curse of being completely dead inside. So we're able to consume this and process it and hopefully help it make sense to other people.
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Speaker 2: I don't like that you put it that way, but you're probably right. I think that there's a... I like to... pretend maybe i'm not maybe this isn't totally accurate but i like to pretend that it's like academic detachment like i can be pissed off at these things that are being i'm listening to and i'm hearing but that's not going to help my ability to convey the information and so i can detach that from uh the work or whatever.
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Speaker 3: Yeah it helps to think that you're like trying to do something about it.
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Speaker 2: It does it does the the that does make it uh less frustrating Um, so what I wanted to do, we should tell folks a little bit, uh, that like, so pre pandemic before COVID ever came to be a word we knew about you and I had gone back and forth a little bit on Twitter and we were talking about the phenomenon that we were noticing that was that Alex, uh, and info wars were becoming buddy, buddy with Nick Fuentes and how bizarre that was. And we had wanted to, get together and have a little conversation about our feelings about that and what we thought that meant. And then a worldwide pandemic happened and it kind of knocked those plans off track. And then it looked for a little bit like their friendship or their sort of working relationship wasn't going anywhere. But now it's blossomed again.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, Nick is hosting some of his videos on the InfoWars site now.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: You know, I would consider that a pretty astounding development. And, you know, Alex and Nick were both appearing at the same rallies, working together for Stop the Steal. Sure.
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Speaker 2: They went on tour together.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, they've really grown closer together. And it's interesting. We were talking before we started recording. It's not really a perfect match. Like, the whole Groiper, white nationalist stuff, I mean, certainly... Alex has broadcast elements of that movement or rhetoric on his show throughout the years in various capacities. But styling-wise and sort of strategy-wise, it's kind of like two different extremist worlds coming together. And it's really interesting to see kind of where that is meshing and where it's not.
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Speaker 2: I think, interestingly, I think strategy... Or, you know, like, that end of things I think is actually fairly compatible. Because it is kind of attention-grabbing-based strategy. You know, like, at least in terms of on the ground. You know, Nick Fuentes and all of his followers would go and, like, disrupt turning point events. And it would get a lot of attention. And, you know, Alex would go bullhorn people. And that gets him tons of attention, too. But I think what you mean is more, like, strategy behind, like, social... uh policy and and like what their goals would.
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Speaker 3: Be yeah and also just kind of how they see the vehicle into influence and power somebody like nick fuentes who's you know just unabashed white nationalist unless he's getting criticism then he's just kidding uh and a comedian it's a comedy show uh complete coward by the way way more respect if you just own it but like I'm not saying that's a lot of respect, but at least a smidge maybe in a very cynical way.
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Speaker 2: A loathsome respect.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I guess that's a way to put it. But Nick sees his strategy as, you know, they do these disruptive events. They go to Turning Point USA conferences. They were at CPAC a few weeks ago as we're recording this.
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Speaker 2: America Uncanceled.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and they just kind of walk around and act like dicks and like, They get attention. There's a ton of press at all the things they go to. And their hope is to kind of siphon off enough of the energy that's going on with those groups to become a type of stakeholder in the broader scene that demands, if not respect, at least some sort of catering or compromise with. Whereas Alex, I don't know that he's really... seen his goal as mainlining into the GOP, or he hasn't particularly targeted young people the way that Nick has.
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Speaker 2: I think he would like to.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I'm sure he'd love to, but I don't know that I've seen so much of a coherent strategy for that.
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Speaker 2: No, that's true. And I think that what you're getting at is something that I've always thought of as like, Nick and Alex are very different in as much as I think that Nick has a political project he's working on, And Alex is just a con artist. You know, like, he has, like, there's an ideology behind Alex. And, like, there's beliefs that he has. And there's things that he would like to see put in place in terms of, you know. I mean, some of it does overlap with Nick. Like, anti-immigrant sentiment. Certainly, they both share. But Alex, yeah, definitely, he doesn't have the same, like, desire to really augment the GOP. He wants Alex wants the GOP to be weirder like him, whereas Nick wants to gain sort of access to the means of power.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, because Nick, I mean, I unfortunately have the experience of being one of the first people to like really critically cover Nick in reporting for Right Wing Watch at the time. And all he's wanted the whole time is just to command some kind of respect in the Republican Party because he was this young guy based, you know, around here in Chicago.
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Speaker 2: Don't rub it in.
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Speaker 3: Went to school, was anti-Trump, then was pro-Trump, then got this like shitty little gig at Right Side Broadcasting Network before it was anything. Then got canned from that being like for saying something along the lines of like, oh, CNN anchors should be hanged, you know, and.
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Speaker 5: Sure.
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Speaker 2: Sure.
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Speaker 3: That is truer to the Trump cause than a place like Fox News might be and believes that he is entitled to some kind of throne, to be some kind of intellectual thought leader. I think he's really bitter towards Charlie Kirk because Charlie Kirk is a bumbling doofus and Nick thinks that he should be Charlie Kirk, you know?
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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think on some level, if you take away how toxic of people they are, I get that. Nick is better at this than someone like Charlie Kirk. But I think that the problem with that entitlement is not understanding what the requirements of the gig are. The fact that Charlie Kirk is a bumbling doofus is the reason he fits into that hole. And the fact that Nick has a... a sense of himself and feels entitled means he does not qualify for that role. No. Because he would end up fucking up the game. He would end up going off script. He would end up advocating for some position that the people who are bankrolling everything don't want him to. And then, well, this is a problem.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how it goes. And not to mention that around... jeez, I don't know, 2016, 2017, 2018, and, I mean, for fuck's sake, the rest of the years afterward. He's been toying with, you know, what was called the alt-right at that time, you know, mingling very close with just some really grisly, like, white supremacists and, you know, echoing themes of Holocaust denial, rambling on about anti-Jewish conspiracy theories. And it doesn't matter what he does or what he changes at this point. He has done enough damage to himself already that he is like never going to be the Charlie Kirk unless, you know, there is some sort of insurgency type movement within the younger GOP base.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. And I think you can see that that is what he would like to incite. Yeah. Almost out of self-preservation, interestingly. And now that you put it that way, it almost seems like, well, This is the only shot I have at relevance is to foment extremism that I can ride the wave of. Yeah.
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Speaker 3: And, you know, Nick wants to ride it to power. Alex wants to ride it to sell super male vitality and keep himself afloat. Maybe younger in Alex's career, he had aspirations like that. But I don't even know if they were as explicit or as obvious as Nick's are.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 5: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: I would, I would say so from looking at other periods in Alex's career, I think, I think he's closer, but certainly not to the, to the degree that, that Nick is at like, what is he 22 now? Like, you know, it's like he has, he has a very sharp focus at a young age. You were, you were bringing up like high school. Did you ever, have you watched his videos from high school?
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Speaker 3: A handful here and there just enough to like kind of get the gist of what i was reporting out at the time just to be like well who the fuck is this guy because even years ago i mean this is probably three or four years ago at this point um when i first kind of caught wind of nick and was watching his videos i was like this guy is young this guy is for better for worse sharp he speaks extremely well and like depending on what this guy does it could be very potent um and i think we're seeing sort of the side effects of that potency yeah you're getting elected officials like paul gosar in arizona michelle malkin a very prominent uh you know columnist for decades throwing their weight behind this guy because they see him as like the next generation of what they do.
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Speaker 2: Yeah and somebody who has like the ability to um be a face of of what they do you know like he has the the ability to enter hostile spaces and come away with at least some modicum of, like, well, that didn't destroy me. You know, he can argue with people who disagree with him. He is very slick. He is, yeah. I got the exact same sense from him the first time I came across him as well. For a period, a friend of mine was really into, like, those online debates and And like those where they want to just yell at each other.
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Speaker 3: They're like, welcome to the political debate. We've gathered eight people to scream at each other.
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Speaker 2: None of whom have an undergrad degree.
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Speaker 3: And then they're like, all right, we go now to base night 34. And then base night 34 gets on there and it's just like. I hate gay people. And then everyone's like, that's terrible. And that's the debate.
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Speaker 2: Hear him out. Hear him out.
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Speaker 3: He gets two minutes like the rest of you.
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Speaker 4: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: I would watch some of these. And I believe this friend of mine was really into Destiny. And so I watched his debate with Nick Fuentes. And that was, I think, where he first came into my scope of awareness. And I thought, like, this guy is fucking dangerous.
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Speaker 5: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: He is... He is really good at making bad points.
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Speaker 3: And he's really young, too. So his potential shelf life is a long, long time. Things have gotten much harder for him lately. I don't know what fucking did it, right? But, you know, what was left of his access to social media platforms finally pulled the trigger.
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Speaker 2: That was amazing it took that long.
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Speaker 3: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: He had a verified account on Twitter until like a couple weeks ago.
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Speaker 3: Six-figure following.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: And would speak like very explicitly. The Southern Poverty Law Center put out a report that took a big look at sort of the problems with Twitter and how it relates to extremism. And in part of that report, they brought up Nick Fuentes and they pulled this quote that I think like illustrated sort of what was interesting here really well, where Nick was like, Oh, yeah, you know, I got banned from YouTube or I get banned from DLive or whatever. And then I just tweet the link and then everybody goes and follows me on the next one. Like, that was kind of his last really effective megaphone. And now he's on Telegram, I guess.
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Speaker 2: And Gab, I think, is still active for him.
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Speaker 3: But he won't shut the fuck up about how much he hates Telegram.
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Speaker 6: Well, they probably are terrible communication mediums. well it's one way right yeah so it's like he sends a message and it's not like his followers really like it's not like twitter where they get in the replies and they just like pop off.
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Speaker 2: Or whatever people fight with each other there's no endorphin rush.
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Speaker 3: It's just yeah it's one way i guess there's like few counts on it if you opened up if he opened up that telegram channel where people could comment on it it would just be like insanity i'm his phone would blow up and like you know so um.
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Speaker 2: I saw that he's on Rumble. Like, there's that video platform where people can just post shit. And one of the things that I thought was really interesting is looking at how unactive that is.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, Rumble... Donald Trump Jr. is on Rumble. That's sort of the flagship. I think Dinesh D'Souza, other great philosophical minds like that, use Rumble. Some QAnon people used Rumble for a while.
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Speaker 4: Mm-hmm.
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Speaker 3: I don't know if that's as prominent anymore, but they just don't get that much traffic.
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Speaker 2: No. Previously, my only interaction with it was when Owen Schroer did that caravan along the East Coast for Stopping the Steel. The person who was along with him was only posting stuff on Rumble, so it was the only time I'd been there. I had no real sense of the site, and I You know, I went to when I was preparing this episode, I went to Nick's channel. Very, very low counts. And if I were him, I would actually see InfoWars as one of the more viable outlets that has actual people around. And that kind of scares the shit out of me. Like if I had gone to Rumble and seen good view counts, I would be like, well, at least he has his own thing off Alex's channel.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, but on Alex's platform, I was super skeptical of it when he launched it, but some of the videos on there are pulling in hundreds of thousands of views. I don't know. I haven't looked at the view counts for Nick's videos on there, but occasionally you get a viral banger on Alex's platform.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not super common. The numbers aren't like what they used to be on a YouTube or whatever, but it's still more than.
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Speaker 2: It's more than nothing. Nick's views aren't huge, but they're better than on, let's say, a Rumble-type platform, which would be something that you would take into consideration if you're looking at a market. And one of the things that you were saying, you were skeptical when Alex launched that. I was skeptical when Nick came around because I thought that there was no way that Alex was going to let him be explicit. And I was wrong.
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Speaker 3: Well, a lot of the way Nick got into InfoWars was sort of through the C-list hosts. You had Jake Floyd at the time. Harrison Smith was having him on.
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Speaker 2: Sure. Owen and him hit it off pretty well. Yeah.
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Speaker 3: It's like he almost came in through the trap door of InfoWars. And then Alex was like.
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Speaker 2: Look at this patriot. This guy is amazing. I always remember when I was younger, I was told that even if you didn't... graduate from high school, even if you never took the SAT or ACT, if you went to two summer school classes at the University of Missouri, you'd be automatically enrolled the next semester as a student. And that's kind of what Nick did with InfoWars. Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: Kind of, kind of.
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Speaker 2: Yeah. I, I, um, I, I remember too, like the, the, the first like real indication that I had that something was like a trouble was the CPAC from last year, I believe. Um, When Alex went and got too drunk and fell asleep before his speech. And then Nick was kind of just taking over the room. And you could see that he had a far more potent sway over the audience. Well, I mean, Alex was asleep. But the rest of the people there didn't have any kind of connection that was close to what Nick was bringing. That was a little bit bad. He took over. Alex's own event, more or less.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, and I think that was going to kind of happen anyway. I've gone to CPAC several years. I haven't gone since the pandemic, but that CPAC I did go to. I did not go to the InfoWars event.
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Speaker 2: Wait, that was two years ago, right? Yeah, it was two years ago.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, excuse me. I didn't go to the InfoWars event because at that point, I mean, I'm a known enough quantity to these people that it's almost no, I can't do reporting if I go there because as soon as I show up, I just get like swarmed.
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Speaker 2: Right. And it, yeah, you become the story.
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Speaker 3: Yeah. And I, that's, that's not what my job is. So I, I tend to just skip it or I was like watching it or whatever, but CPAC generally as an event, like certainly there's some donors that are around some older activists, you know, passionate adults, but it, and it's like this for almost, you know, any major conference or event in DC is, They pack the numbers with college kids. Like what happens on the stage is for the cameras and there's media. It's like a media circus. And then there's also like the underbelly of all these conferences is bringing in young college kids and trying to rear up the next generation of the conservative movement. Because the conservative movement has been so shitty the last couple decades, frankly, at pulling in younger generations to their cause. So because Nick, the way he styles himself being young personally and also, you know, borrowing rhetoric and stylings from, you know, popular Twitch streamers or memes and jokes and stuff like that. He resonates more with the younger audience.
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Speaker 2: Sure.
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Speaker 3: And I think, you know, at an event like CPAC, there's probably more people numbers wise in the crowd that could be pulled to somebody like Fuentes than, you know, I don't know how many diehard InfoWars listeners are just roaming around CPAC. In fact, most of the time when they go to CPAC, it's just to go be a thorn in the side until they get asked to leave.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess that makes sense. I mean, I think that someone like Alex probably has a difficult time connecting with the youth because the youth don't care about the Red Scare.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, the Tricombs.
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Speaker 2: There's a little bit of, you're an old man. And I think that even a lot of the insults that we see thrown around by Nick apply to Alex. And that's another thing that I think is really funny about this incompatibility is that on its face, these two dudes are like, like most of what makes Nick's brand work is opposition to what Alex stands for.
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Speaker 3: Which is like, boomers 1776 taking America back revolution.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: Nick on his own show.
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Speaker 2: I don't care what color you are if you bleed red blood. Yeah, no.
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Speaker 3: On Nick's show, he talks about people that use that kind of rhetoric. I mean, I won't say what he calls them.
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Speaker 2: Sure.
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Speaker 3: He speaks very lowly of them.
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Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 3: And then he goes on InfoWars and he's almost just like, I almost feel like you can see it in his face sometimes.
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Speaker 2: He's like, he's.
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Speaker 3: He knows that he kind of maybe for his career should be doing this, but like, isn't incredibly down. I think just sort of happy to have access to a large audience.
00:24:00
Speaker 2: Yeah.
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Speaker 1: Yeah.
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Speaker 2: I'm doing, I remember back when I did stand up, there would be shows that I didn't want to do, but it was like, this is, you just got to do it. You just got to do it. There's a crowd there, you know, just whatever. I, yeah, you get that sense of just like, yeah, I'm checking this off the list. I'm just doing this. And the other thing, too, on this incompatibility note, is we were talking earlier about the Turning Point feud with Nick. And one of the big things that they used as a wedge in those, whenever they would disrupt the Turning Point events, was Israel. Yeah. They would bring up Israel, and it would be like, why won't you denounce? And this exact strategy.
00:24:45
Speaker 2: Could be quite effectively used against Alex. Yeah. I don't understand how somebody like Alex could watch what Nick and his fan base have done, like exploiting a turning point USA and not realize like, well, yeah, I.
00:25:04
Speaker 3: That's like one of the few territories, Alex is, tends to be a little hesitant to go. He's gone there once or twice, but generally speaking, he kind of soft walks it.
00:25:16
Speaker 2: Very much. Very much so, to the point where I actually don't fully know what his full position is.
00:25:22
Speaker 3: No, I think that is probably on purpose. Keep it ambiguous enough that the folks in the audience that believe in all kinds of anti-Semitic conspiracy theories don't Drop him, but not specific enough that he gets in trouble with the other part of the audience that is supportive of the state of Israel.
00:25:44
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that that is probably a strategic move on his part and probably wise for his brand. But it's also the exact thing that someone like Nick would be like, no. No. Have a position. Why won't you have a position? That's basically what he was yelling at Charlie Kirk at all those events. And I just feel like Alex should know that that might be coming down the road from within your own organization now.
00:26:10
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, we'll see. With Nick not being on these platforms and losing access and being in a position where he has the potential to start circling the drain quite a bit, we'll see if Alex can, how long he can hold on. Um, I, I am pretty curious though, you know, cause there's almost two ways it could go, right? Where on one hand, Alex is so cynical and, you know, is kind of half consciously doing his show at this point that he's just like, yeah, whatever. We're getting the numbers in. This is about censorship. This isn't about what anybody is specifically saying. Um, And then there's the other part where he's just like, oh, maybe we can host the videos, but he doesn't come on the show anymore. That sort of thing. It'll be interesting to see where those chips fall.
00:27:04
Speaker 2: Well, I feel like it's, no matter what, going to be bad. I don't feel like you can have these influences in the same pot. Turn on a little bit of heat and it not turn into just utter chaos, but But we'll see. I'm going to keep track of it. And one of the things that I wanted to do was I wanted to just discuss a little video of Nick Fuentes' that he put on InfoWars. So again, this is something that now Alex has to deal with. In preparation for this episode, I wanted to go and watch some of Nick's off-platform work. And I was shocked how bad it is. not even like offensive, like there's some offensive stuff, but it's just also bad. It's also just really doesn't seem like he's trying all that hard.
00:27:54
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:27:54
Speaker 3: He's really gotten in his own head lately. And like, I feel like half the show, he's just, he just talks about, he's almost pulling a Laura Loomer where every time she opens her mouth, she's like, I'm, I'm so persecuted. It's so terrible, blah, blah, blah. And just goes on and on and for like 20 minutes. And then at the end is like, Um, let's check the super chats. I oppose tech censorship too. That's important. Look at Google, Google it.
00:28:18
Speaker 2: And then the, uh, the one I watched one and, uh, he was, he did like a five minute rant about how he wants to be a martyr, but like, not like Jesus, he doesn't want to get crucified. He wants to, cause crucifixion would suck, but he's fine being a martyr. Like he's on a no fly list, but even if he was crucified, he'd probably go to heaven. So that would be great. I was like, I don't know what this is. I listen to Alex Jones all the time. I thought that was kind of uncompelling broadcasting. And I listen to this asshole.
00:28:55
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:28:57
Speaker 3: Yeah, let's listen to some clips.
00:28:58
Speaker 2: All right. So this is a speech. This is from a speech that Nick gave that is on InfoWars now. It's hosted on there. And it is about opposition to feminism.
00:29:10
Speaker 3: That classic popular political position.
00:29:13
Speaker 2: Sure. Anti-feminism is a galvanizing force within some of the some of the proto-Trumpian communities. Yeah. Definitely. It fueled a lot of the anti-SJW kind of outrage.
00:29:30
Speaker 5: Now.
00:29:31
Speaker 2: I think that there's a difference between what you might call classical anti-feminist ideas and what Nick is bringing to the table. And we'll see that. Here we go. We're going to give it a start.
00:29:46
Speaker 4: Now they call me a sexist. And that one is just true.
00:29:50
Speaker 2: Thank you. Quite an applause break.
00:30:02
Speaker 4: And I am a misogynist, too. So that's just true. And if you're a man, you almost have to be. I don't really respect you if you're not. But no, so they call you a sexist, and why?
00:30:18
Speaker 5: I even get called this by so-called right-wing women. Like, for example, you know Alex Clark?
00:30:23
Speaker 1: Man!
00:30:37
Speaker 2: So I think this is one of the issues with dealing with someone his age and maybe humor maturity level and trying to mix the issues that he's trying to cover with she's ugly.
00:30:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, it seems almost explicitly aimed at 14-year-old boys.
00:30:59
Speaker 2: Who are angry.
00:31:01
Speaker 3: Yeah, and that's particularly what is concerning to me about Fuentes as he goes through the years, is he aims young.
00:31:10
Speaker 2: Like a Crowder type. He's clearly somebody who is like, I know once you reach a certain age, you're probably not going to be interested in this bullshit. Right, right.
00:31:21
Speaker 3: And it's... He's like part stand-up comic, even though as I try to imagine that set in like literally any comedy club. And he's like, Alex Clark, right? And the audience is like, who? Who the fuck is that?
00:31:36
Speaker 2: I pay attention to right-wing stuff and even I had to look up who she was.
00:31:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, she does an Instagram show for TPUSA. Who gives a shit, dude?
00:31:45
Speaker 2: Who cares? Well, see, that's what's fascinating to me about this is like imagining it as a stand-up set. It's like, huh? But then also imagining it as like a serious political thing is also like, well, what are you doing? Yeah. Like, ah, I got into a fight with this commentator for turning point USA. This is the cornerstone of these, this lecture that I'm going to get. It's absurd in both spaces. Yeah.
00:32:09
Speaker 3: It's just, I, I don't know. I just don't get it really. I mean, I get it. I get what the point of it is. But yeah, the way he's going about it, it's, it's, it kind of makes me sick a little bit to think like, imagine if you and I were putting out this show, but we were putting on the like, hello, it's, or what's the meme? Like howdy, my fellow kids or whatever.
00:32:37
Speaker 2: Oh yeah. The Steve Buscemi, uh, meme. Yeah.
00:32:40
Speaker 5: Yeah.
00:32:40
Speaker 3: We open up the podcast and I'm just like, epic dab, Dan, that's so fucking sick.
00:32:47
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:32:47
Speaker 3: Alex Jones. He looks like he's got a, a zit for a head. Ah!
00:32:52
Speaker 4: Damn!
00:32:53
Speaker 3: Morning zoo sounds. You know, it's... It would be something worth taking seriously, I think. Well, the thing is, there's some real political action to back it up, right?
00:33:03
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:33:04
Speaker 3: So we kind of, like, have to take it seriously.
00:33:05
Speaker 2: That's the trap, and that's the problem. And I think that understanding that trap is... It's important to recognize that you have this, like, bad stand-up and bad political thing She's pretty rough looking. And I see these pictures of her. You ever see in the dating show? She's in the jacuzzi.
00:33:39
Speaker 4: Like a black guy? Who the fuck is that? Whoops! Hey! I was based.
00:33:53
Speaker 2: See, there we go. You know, like, you have this joke that's not a joke.
00:33:58
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly. And it's... It's kind of clever, because when, throughout the years, people like myself, or... places like the Southern Poverty Law Center, you know, anti-extremism people have criticized Nick. He's kind of hidden under the, oh, it's an edgy joke. It's a standup comedy. You know, 20 years ago, you'd go to a comedy club and hear this. But I don't think Nick is even old enough to know if that's true or not. That's just like something someone told him one time.
00:34:31
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:34:32
Speaker 2: Yeah. He might just say Lenny Bruce and then never know who he was. But the thing is, if you want to take it from the perspective of a joke, the joke here is that Nick thinks it's gross that someone who's not black would be in a jacuzzi with a black man. And I don't know what the joke is.
00:34:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not a joke.
00:34:54
Speaker 2: There isn't a joke.
00:34:55
Speaker 3: That's just hate.
00:34:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, I guess the joke is, the only possible joke is him parodying being racist for the sake of being anti-racist. And that's clearly not what he's doing.
00:35:07
Speaker 3: Damn, this podcast is taking a turn I didn't think it would be. Nick Fuentes, secret anti-fascist. It's an inside job.
00:35:15
Speaker 2: I remember I had a friend when I was younger who was pretty convinced that Ann Coulter was a performance artist. And all of it was an elaborate parody of right-wing stuff. And I thought that was fascinating back when I used to smoke a lot of weed. And I was like, oh, what if? Damn, bro. I think that if I were younger, maybe someone would make that argument about Nick. Like, secretly, this is all parody. No, it's not. It's just poorly thought out bigotry that's being masked by a very thin sheet.
00:35:49
Speaker 3: Yeah, very thin. I don't know how it could... It's like a Kleenex.
00:35:59
Speaker 2: You can see right through it. So in this next clip here, Nick begins to lay out what his problem with feminism is. And it relates back to Clark, Alex Clark, a little bit. But it actually doesn't. It relates to a friend of Alex Clark's, which is really weird.
00:36:17
Speaker 4: But here's the problem with feminism.
00:36:19
Speaker 5: You know, you see all these conservatives and they've been beating this drum for years. They'll say things like, well, there's no sexism. There's no gender pay gap. They've been doing that argument.
00:36:27
Speaker 4: For like 10,000 years.
00:36:29
Speaker 5: And they'll say things like, for example, third wave feminism is the problem. You know, we'll always have to stipulate. Well, it's the third wave. It's these new feminists. Oh, feminism's fine. You know, the first, second, every wave leading up to the third wave is wrong. Or rather, everything leading up to the third wave is right. The reason they call me a sexist or a woman hater, like Robert Barnes said, is because I actually believe in real traditional values. And I'll tell you what I mean by that. At CPAC, they're against abortions. And if you're a Christian, you have to be against abortion. Really, if you're a human being. And I'll say, it's not even just Christians. If you're a human being, if you see what they do to these babies, they go in there and they rip them out, rip them to pieces.
00:37:21
Speaker 4: This is barbarism. It's completely inhumane.
00:37:23
Speaker 5: And over at CPAC, they're opposed to abortion, and I think that's a very standard conservative position, and it should be.
00:37:30
Speaker 4: But abortion is kind of starting.
00:37:33
Speaker 5: The story in the middle when it comes to an unplanned, so-called unplanned pregnancy.
00:37:39
Speaker 2: So now here is where he gets into his problem. When you have an opposition to abortion, that's starting the problem in the middle. That's like you have a problem... that you think is the problem and it's abortion, but there's actually a problem over here beforehand. Yeah.
00:37:54
Speaker 3: I mean, beneath all the like weird jokes that aren't jokes and like almost the openers are almost like standup comedy or edgy Twitch streamers rhetoric.
00:38:08
Speaker 2: Nick's whole rhetorical.
00:38:09
Speaker 3: Strategy and, you know, extremists do this all the time is to present themselves as like, the truer version of the, you've heard this, you're, you're nodding your head, but let me tell you, this is a stop gap. It does not fix the problem. And I have the solution. That's his whole, that is his whole presentation is the truer conservative. It goes back to what I was saying. He believes he deserves the place of somebody like Charlie Kirk because he thinks he is a truer iteration of Trumpism, which, uh, As somebody who didn't like Trump too much, I won't fight him on that.
00:38:46
Speaker 2: You can take that mantle if you want. Yeah, go for it.
00:38:48
Speaker 3: You know what, dude? Go for it. I won't correct you, but yeah, it's interesting because this is what he's been doing for years.
00:38:56
Speaker 2: Yeah, the rhetorical strategy that you're talking about is definitely there. And I think the other thing that he's doing is he's taking this thing that everybody in the room agrees on. And that is that we're against abortion because obviously you can hear from their response. This is a anti-choice crowd. So he's taking that agreement and then he's twisting it into, well, if you agree with this, you actually also agree with this other thing that you probably actually don't. And there's not really connective tissue to get you there logically. And this is where Alex Clark's friend comes into play because apparently Alex Clark was friends with somebody who decided not to get an abortion. And this makes Nick mad somehow.
00:39:42
Speaker 5: You know, for example, there was a friend of Alex Clark who we had a little bit of a fight with on Twitter earlier this year and And she went out on Twitter and she announced, hey.
00:39:51
Speaker 4: Everybody, I'm not aborting my baby. And everybody was like, wow. Wow, queen. Great job. You didn't abort your baby. I mean, all the.
00:40:02
Speaker 5: Griper said is, is the bar really that low? I mean, if that's the bar to be a conservative or a conservative influencer, that you don't abort babies and now we're supposed to sing your praises? I said, that's not good enough. And let's think about the story here.
00:40:18
Speaker 4: A woman will have an unplanned.
00:40:20
Speaker 5: Pregnancy, so-called, and then, you know, maybe she'll choose life or maybe she'll choose abortion. But why are women having pregnancies that they don't want? I mean, ask yourself that.
00:40:30
Speaker 4: Why does that happen? Why do abortions happen?
00:40:33
Speaker 5: They're having babies they don't want because they're having sex outside of marriage.
00:40:38
Speaker 4: That's why. Right?
00:40:46
Speaker 5: And there's a word for that. There's a word for that. It's called adultery.
00:40:50
Speaker 4: That's what that's called.
00:40:52
Speaker 2: This is dumb.
00:40:53
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is real dumb.
00:40:55
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you've taken the opposition to abortion and now turned it into like, well, you actually have to be opposed to people having sex because that's why unplanned pregnancies happen. And I would say that a really easy rebuttal to this would just be like, well, Are there other things that can stop unplanned pregnancies, like maybe universal access to reproductive health care, destigmatization by way of reproductive education? These kinds of things have clearly a track record that has shown that this does drastically reduce unwanted pregnancies. So why do we have to just have everyone stop fucking?
00:41:35
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this seems like a pretty hard sell to a room of teenage boys.
00:41:39
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:41:40
Speaker 3: I'll just say that. Remembering myself as a teenage boy and how the only thing I thought about was, I wonder if and when I will have sex. Yeah.
00:41:52
Speaker 2: It was on my mind.
00:41:54
Speaker 3: It would come up from time to time.
00:41:56
Speaker 2: I grew up in a bit of a Christian environment.
00:41:59
Speaker 3: Same.
00:42:00
Speaker 2: I should tell you that I did get a promise ring, and there was a I'm going to save myself for marriage thing in my church.
00:42:06
Speaker 3: I grew up in Arkansas, but I didn't go that far.
00:42:09
Speaker 2: I wish that I had had the restraint, because it was a bad period of time. I feel a little embarrassed looking back. But I... found it really interesting listening to stuff like this because there's an anger behind what nick is saying and there's an anger to that women shouldn't have sex before marriage whereas as much as i regret and i get kind of cringy feelings about myself looking back at my past i don't think there was anger about premarital sex i think there was a choice that i felt i was making and i didn't really care that much about what other people were doing, except my friends in the church community, if they had already made the same decision as I had. Yeah.
00:42:56
Speaker 3: Cause the, the premise of a promise ring is kind of a personal one. It is the person that I end up marrying, I believe deserves to have me completely. That's the kind of rhetoric they use.
00:43:09
Speaker 2: Versus what pre committed to each other or whatever.
00:43:11
Speaker 3: Versus what Nick does is like, I, it is essentially just like in a woman must be clean for me. It's like, it's like, it's one thing for people to be like, Oh, I want to do this for my partner. I want to do whatever. Um, but it's another thing to be like, you owe me this. Like that is a little fucked up.
00:43:33
Speaker 1: Yeah.
00:43:34
Speaker 2: I think also just like, even just like ballooning out a little bit umbrella, looking at it, the preoccupation with, with, virginity or purity or any of that stuff is a little bit unhealthy no matter what. But the hostility and the anger really just bums me out. Especially when there's just like, if your problem is allegedly abortion and your solution to it is, you know, get rid of things that lead to unplanned pregnancies, there are other strategies. You do not have to go with people can't have sex.
00:44:10
Speaker 3: And ultimately, if you zoom out just a little bit, What Nick is doing is like some friend of Alex Clark was probably like, fuck you, Nick. Rightfully so.
00:44:20
Speaker 2: Yeah.
00:44:21
Speaker 3: Probably disagree with her on everything else, but like there's some common ground there. Uh, and he looked at that and said like, Oh, she said, fuck you, Nick.
00:44:33
Speaker 2: Gross.
00:44:34
Speaker 3: She had sex. What a, what a blob. You know, I, I really don't want to borrow the language he's using, but, um, It's pretty gross.
00:44:47
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think that there's also even like if we take all of this content out of it, you still have somebody who sees himself as like a political leader complaining about a fight he had on Twitter. Right. And that is sad.
00:45:03
Speaker 3: And his gripe? They had sex.
00:45:05
Speaker 2: Gross.
00:45:06
Speaker 5: Right.
00:45:07
Speaker 2: And then something happened that was unexpected and they made the decision I would want them to make. And I'm still mad about it.
00:45:14
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:45:15
Speaker 2: Because it's still not good enough because they had sex. Okay. Sure. Whatever. So Nick also appears to be against contraception as he lays out a little bit.
00:45:27
Speaker 4: Why else do women have unplanned pregnancies?
00:45:29
Speaker 5: Well, they use contraception, and it doesn't work sometimes, and then they wind up with a pregnancy. In short, the Bible and Christianity tells us about sexuality, and this is traditional too, that young men and young women are supposed to get married, and then they're only supposed to do.
00:45:47
Speaker 4: It with each other. That's what the Bible tells us about marriage.
00:45:51
Speaker 5: Conservatives seem to be okay with everything leading up to the unplanned pregnancy. The contraception, the promiscuity, the sort of hookup culture, casual sex, all of that.
00:46:02
Speaker 4: And then when there's an unplanned pregnancy, then they draw the line and they say, no, no, but we're the real conservatives. Go no further. You've got to go all the way to the beginning of the story.
00:46:13
Speaker 2: So Nick is equating conservative values with theocratic christian societal organization basically.
00:46:21
Speaker 3: And even then um i i would encourage him to brush up on his bible a little bit because there are plenty of people in god's good graces that got around sure i would say sure um.
00:46:35
Speaker 2: Jesus hung out with uh some folks who might have been uh looked down upon by someone like nick.
00:46:40
Speaker 3: Eve spoke out in their defense in fact uh But yeah, like you were saying, the argument here is that the GOP should be the vehicle.
00:46:50
Speaker 2: Of the church. Yes.
00:46:52
Speaker 3: Which a lot of Christian right folks would probably agree with, but it's something that our government is set up, at least on paper in theory, to.
00:47:05
Speaker 2: Not be. I would hope.
00:47:08
Speaker 3: I've fingers crossed. I mean, the rate we're going now.
00:47:11
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think that there's a difference between like wanting your religious beliefs to be respected and wanting them to be doctrine to everyone and expected of everyone to follow. And that is clearly what Nick is advocating for. Nick is clearly advocating for a society where his particular religious beliefs are codified into what everyone has to follow. And that's not, gonna be great.
00:47:39
Speaker 3: Yeah and i think for nick and also for like people in the white nationalism that came generations before him they saw the church um even if the church isn't in total agreement with their agenda it's kind of the fastest way to erase or or to get to push the country away from the ideal of a multicultural democracy by instituting some sort of theocratic control uh or you know mandating the laws of the government based on a religious philosophy you can get more people to nod along and also have like an esoteric thing to point to um it's not you are not accountable you are just following the rules in the good book right.
00:48:27
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah yeah you have like sort of a thing you can fall back on that uh that's like wow this is unquestionable.
00:48:33
Speaker 3: Yeah and i i I want to be totally clear, nothing against religion. I'm not religious, but whatever, you know, it helps people.
00:48:41
Speaker 4: Right.
00:48:42
Speaker 3: But, you know, they do see this as a vehicle. And, you know, I think for anybody who's listening to the show, that's like a person of faith, it's something to be conscious of that, that people are out there that would seek to exploit your faith to turn you towards something really nasty.
00:48:57
Speaker 2: Sure. Yeah. I mean, like, uh, I think you see that, you see that a bit and that's, That's one of the that without coming off as anti-religious or anti uh any kind of uh faith and i think it's very possible to walk that line but people sometimes do a bad job of it and i think it doesn't help that a lot of people uh have negative past experiences of their own that they bring to the table with religious communities and you know that that's just a challenge we all have.
00:49:33
Speaker 3: Yeah it's hard to talk about it in a way that's not personal.
00:49:35
Speaker 2: Is my uh my tan from my promise ring showing my uh My permanent... No, I don't have it.
00:49:42
Speaker 3: Well, it's funny because it's on a few fingers. How many promises did you make, Dan? I made a lot of promises.
00:49:47
Speaker 2: They've all been broken. I had a pinky ring. I had a pinky promise ring.
00:49:52
Speaker 3: Oh, man.
00:49:53
Speaker 2: I was going to have a gang.
00:49:56
Speaker 3: Pinky and the boys. I need to just jump out the window here.
00:50:00
Speaker 2: For that one. There was another thing that I was thinking about here. Oh, yeah. That's what it was. There's another aspect to this religious stuff that Nick is bringing to the table that I think really highlights a distinct difference between him and people like Alex and traditional sort of anti-communist types. And that is that there's religious zealotry and fervor on both sides. But Nick is a Catholic fascist.
00:50:29
Speaker 4: Yeah.
00:50:29
Speaker 2: Very specifically. And Alex is more of a Protestant type. And I think that Alex doesn't understand that.
00:50:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know that he fully understands how those two, even historically speaking, perhaps, do.
00:50:47
Speaker 2: Not really get along. Yeah, the extreme ends of Catholic extremism, let's say, and more... I don't even know what you would call him. I mean, just Christian identity, kind of, is the vein you would put Alex in. Yeah.
00:51:06
Speaker 3: No, I think that's right, because he... he sees it as something that he is um and i don't often hear alex articulate like a really coherent like biblical argument for stuff it's.
00:51:23
Speaker 2: Like sometimes he talks about like space in terms of god he's weird oh yeah um yeah i think that most things that he brings up about the bible are like sort of out of context quotes about like jesus saying get a sword and stuff like that and it's like well i'm not sure i'm not sure what a grasp you have here yeah but the traditions of his community in his world in terms of religion are very different um in terms of doctrine in terms of goals than than nicks and i don't think that he realizes that when they say uh god or whatever they may have very distinct uh views in their mind and i think that's another thing that could lead to a problem between the two of them.
00:52:07
Speaker 3: Yeah because alex will undoubtedly fail a purity test if nick decides he wants to apply it yup um or alex i mean potentially i guess could get uncomfortable by it i don't know do things make him uncomfortable i.
00:52:23
Speaker 2: Don't know I don't know. I mean, like, until Nick does something that, like, his lawyer thinks he needs to do something about, I don't know if Alex would be uncomfortable. Because I don't think he knows. Like, honestly, I don't think he knows what goes on his own site. I can't imagine that, because I just... He has to either not care or not know.
00:52:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, and it's hard to know which one of those it is.
00:52:49
Speaker 2: Yeah, because things like this would be very difficult to stand behind. So you have Nick saying that abortion is wrong, and he's got the room on his side, and therefore you can't fuck because that's bad. You can only fuck in marriage. But also, this extends much further.
00:53:10
Speaker 4: It's not just about sexual morality.
00:53:12
Speaker 5: It's not just about the family, but it's also about the composition of society.
00:53:17
Speaker 4: When men and women get married, who's having the babies? Does anybody know? I mean, it's the women that are having the babies.
00:53:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how that works.
00:53:25
Speaker 5: These days, it seems like people are okay with women in the workforce. I mean, I go out there on my show and I say, I don't think women should be in the workforce.
00:53:34
Speaker 4: Frankly, I don't know if they should be voting.
00:53:36
Speaker 2: Okay.
00:53:47
Speaker 4: And people say that's so backwards. How could you say that? What is this, the 1950s? The 1950s were a good time! They say, what is this, the 1950s? No, but it should be. We have to go back.
00:54:05
Speaker 2: Go ahead, sorry.
00:54:07
Speaker 3: So, just to be clear, for the listeners at home, we've been talking in between some of these clips, but this is all from the same speech. He has gone from I got no Twitter argument with Alex Clark to.
00:54:19
Speaker 2: About her friend, who did the thing that I would want her to do.
00:54:23
Speaker 3: Her friend got pregnant and then kept the baby, but she shouldn't have gotten pregnant in the first place because she shouldn't have been having sex, which, by the way, even with contraceptions, fuck those things, women shouldn't vote.
00:54:35
Speaker 4: Yes.
00:54:37
Speaker 2: This is spiraled out into... And also, this speech, I'm not cutting out parts that make it make sense. This is the train of thought that he's on, is these are the things that lead to abortion, which you need to be against if you're truly against abortion. If you're truly against abortion, you need to be against fucking. You need women not to be in the office, not in the workplace, probably shouldn't vote. Like, okay.
00:55:02
Speaker 3: We need to return to the 1950s that... The era in time that was famously good to everybody.
00:55:10
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wonderful time for everyone. Everyone. The thing is, if you look at that train of thought, what you really start to recognize is how much the abortion has nothing to do with what he actually is advocating.
00:55:28
Speaker 5: No.
00:55:28
Speaker 2: He's hiding behind that mantle because it's something that people will obviously get on board with. Trying to make the connection between women voting, having the right to vote, and being opposed to abortion. It's a long walk. It's a long walk.
00:55:48
Speaker 3: But he gets there in like, I mean, what is it, 60 seconds?
00:55:52
Speaker 2: Give or take.
00:55:53
Speaker 3: He's a fucking Olympian athlete.
00:55:56
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, in a.
00:55:58
Speaker 2: Favorable room you know i think i think if he tried to make this this make sense outside of his own uh america uncanceled rally i don't know i don't know how well it would work but yeah i mean this is this is what he's doing he's trojan horsing these other uh viewpoints onto the the audience i would i would say that they're probably inclined to be angry and hostile towards women to begin with but maybe they wouldn't have gone to a rally that was a women shouldn't vote rally But they might show up for a pro-life rally.
00:56:31
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's definitely fair. I mean, like I said, that's the whole strategy. Oh, here's something you agree with. Let me give you the real shit. And to a degree, with younger audiences, and apparently at the favor of at least one member of Congress, it's resonating, which is kind of terrifying. Because if we just sit here and listen to it, It's fucking ridiculous, dude. It doesn't make any sense.
00:57:00
Speaker 2: No. And I think that we're of the age where we lived through the Tea Party happening. Right. And I think that in a lot of ways, people didn't take that nearly seriously enough. And I think, you know, you saw the effect that it had on political discourse, on on normalizing ideas that were prior, like, I don't know about this. And I think that if we're not careful, this could be another thing that goes that direction. Like, you're bringing up the Michelle Malkin support, the Gosar support. It's not nothing.
00:57:41
Speaker 3: Yeah, and these brigades from Nick and his fans who call themselves the Groypers and stuff, They have been able to kind of give TPUSA enough pressure for them to bend on some shit. Which is a mistake to fucking begin with. Because once you put that... You cannot put the toothpaste back in the tube after that. It's like a bully. You give in to the bully. You play the game. And guess who's back tomorrow? It's the bully again.
00:58:12
Speaker 2: Yeah. And that's what I feel about Alex having him on the network. Even, you know, like, what are you going to do? Are you going to kick him off? Good luck. Yeah. I mean, geez.
00:58:24
Speaker 3: I mean, we'll see.
00:58:26
Speaker 2: It's a mess. But here's where it gets a little bit racist, I think. No, wait. This is more just about how women need to be just making babies all the time.
00:58:35
Speaker 3: All right.
00:58:36
Speaker 2: Let's do it.
00:58:36
Speaker 4: The reason why I'm against this, I never understood the argument myself.
00:58:39
Speaker 5: I was a libertarian for years when I was in high school, and I never got it. I don't think most people get it because nobody makes the argument.
00:58:47
Speaker 4: Why, Nick? Why can't women work in the workforce?
00:58:50
Speaker 2: I love it. Here's my favorite thing in the world. When someone is like, no one ever makes the argument, so now I will. I love that. It's like when Alex is like, I'm going to get down to it. I'm going to prove everything.
00:59:02
Speaker 3: Why does nobody is talking about using your toaster in the bathtub? So I'm going to do it right now.
00:59:08
Speaker 2: I'm going to lay it out. I always love it when someone sets the bar way too high for themselves, and that's what Nick has done right here. Make the argument, my man.
00:59:18
Speaker 4: Do you think they're incompetent? Well, yes. Do you think that they're not as intelligent as men? Yes.
00:59:26
Speaker 5: But that's not entirely why. That's not the only reason. I'm being a little tongue-in-cheek, but it's actually serious. If we're to have a traditional Christian view of sexual morality, then women should be getting married and having lots and lots of kids.
00:59:41
Speaker 4: That's just the.
00:59:42
Speaker 5: Natural course of things if you're following God's word, if you're a real Christian and a real conservative. And so if you're having all these babies, who is going to raise those babies.
00:59:54
Speaker 4: Other than their mother?
00:59:55
Speaker 2: So yeah, no one makes the argument, so Nick's going to do it. He's going to lay it out for you.
01:00:01
Speaker 3: Damn, dude. I have never heard that one before. Thank God Nick made this argument.
01:00:07
Speaker 2: What a new idea. Damn, dude. Yes, yes. Women are things.
01:00:13
Speaker 3: I can't believe. Women should have children?
01:00:17
Speaker 5: What?
01:00:18
Speaker 2: God, this guy is breaking new ground all over the place.
01:00:22
Speaker 3: Did he go to church for the first time last week?
01:00:24
Speaker 2: I don't know. I find this fascinating, and I think you see it a lot with these types, this making really, really old arguments that most people have left in the past as if they were new novel breakthroughs. They're like, no one lays it out like me. Oh, my religious beliefs dictate that women are essentially just biological machines that we use to create and take care of the next generation. Yes. Oh, wow.
01:00:54
Speaker 5: Wow.
01:00:54
Speaker 2: Groundbreaking. Mind freak.
01:00:57
Speaker 3: Well, it's just, I mean, to go back to the joke I made earlier, I guess it's like, imagine this in any other context, right? Like, so we used to put asbestos in buildings and then people were getting sick. So we stopped. We realized that was not how we wanted to go forward. So, you know, we moved on from it. And I just imagine somebody like, this is the rhetorical equivalent of being like, I'm going to let you in on a little secret. There's something you can put in your walls. And I swear to God, no better insulation. They'll call you an idiot. They'll say that you're going to go to the hospital when you're older if you do this. But they're just trying to smear you. Like, this is the same fucking thing.
01:01:41
Speaker 2: My religion dictates that you must take the risk of going to the hospital. Yeah, it's it's not it's not convincing, I would say, for one. And of course, it does veer into racism because this is Nick after all. And of course it does.
01:02:00
Speaker 4: We have a country now where people have babies. And what do they do? They have one or two or three kids and then they stop and then they send the kids to daycare. And the mom's working and the dad's working and they have two cars and two car insurance and all this. And they send the kids to daycare.
01:02:16
Speaker 5: And the kids, from the time they wake up until the time mommy and daddy get home from work, they're being raised by somebody other than their mother. They're being raised, in many cases, by people that don't care about them. Maybe people that hate them. You're seeing people being brought up in daycare. And largely, it's immigrants working these jobs. We're going to have immigrants raise our babies because mothers are too busy doing what?
01:02:42
Speaker 4: Making spreadsheets?
01:02:43
Speaker 5: They're too busy making a schedule.
01:02:45
Speaker 4: This is insane. This is not a conservative.
01:02:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, it always does have to come back to anti-immigrant sentiment and coding the our babies. And, you know, it's it always has to come back to that. Also, I think this is something that needs to be said, and that is that Nick is 22 years old and we know what he's been doing since he was in high school. I do not know if he's somebody that I would take very seriously anymore. about what it's like to have a career or a real job.
01:03:14
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I'm listening to that. Two cars, a couple kids. I'm just like, damn, someone figured it out. I don't know if I'll be able to do that with the income I've got.
01:03:23
Speaker 5: Right.
01:03:23
Speaker 2: They have two cars, two car insurances. Damn, dude. What does that mean? They might just have one policy.
01:03:29
Speaker 3: Big money right here is what I'm saying. But yeah, not exactly the authority on the good old days. You know, I just imagine him flipping through, like, 1950s edition of like highlights magazine and being like this is what they stole from us which is like.
01:03:47
Speaker 2: You know he but he has scrawled slurs in like word bubbles and every drawing uh in the highlights magazine.
01:03:54
Speaker 3: Yeah no it's it's it's ridiculous and also just this whole premise of like because somebody is an immigrant that they would be inept at caring for a child or something. And especially if they're in daycare, they're not in school yet, they're so young, they're not going to remember shit anyway. Like, I mean.
01:04:14
Speaker 2: Mild disdain is not probably going to stick around. Yeah, just... And people who gravitate towards childcare careers are often people who do not hate kids.
01:04:24
Speaker 3: Yeah, the most selfless people in the world.
01:04:26
Speaker 2: Typically. Now, granted, obviously, there's going to be bad people in any line of work, but I would think that of the people that I know who have gravitated towards that field, they love kids.
01:04:39
Speaker 3: Yeah, you don't do it because you get rich or you get famous. You do it because you care. For the most part, there's going to be outliers in any profession.
01:04:49
Speaker 2: Yeah. And I think, too, that Nick doesn't know what it means to have a job. He doesn't know what it means to have a career. And therefore, he can be reductive. and stupid about, like, oh, women are just making spreadsheets so they can't raise their babies.
01:05:03
Speaker 3: Well, the thing is, his audience is so young, too. It can kind of work.
01:05:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, because they don't know either.
01:05:09
Speaker 3: Yeah, like, if Nick got in a room full of, like, I'm thinking the TPUSA donor dinner of, like, aging Q-tips all assembled in circles around tables eating basil chicken or whatever the fuck they eat, too.
01:05:25
Speaker 2: Sounds like it's on the menu.
01:05:26
Speaker 3: They'd be like, So they've got careers, they've got families, they've got whatever, but blah, blah. And I just imagine the audience being like, what's he talking about again? I don't think it would resonate with the older crowd.
01:05:41
Speaker 2: No, no, because he'd essentially be looking at them and being like, all you do is make spreadsheets. And everyone who's had a career or done work knows that there's much more to having a career, especially something that you love, something that you find fulfilling, something that is like a part of your life. The idea of depriving people of that because you and your religious beliefs dictate that they must have babies constantly is bizarre. It's unhinged. It's offensive.
01:06:16
Speaker 3: It's supremacist is what it is. It's true that my beliefs are so much more More important than you as a person that they should dictate your life.
01:06:26
Speaker 2: Yep. And it's now something that Alex apparently is either tacitly or explicitly condoning. Yeah. So we have one more clip here, but I'm going to skip past it because it's basically just him being like, well, if this is sexist, then I guess I am. And yeah.
01:06:46
Speaker 3: Yeah, I would agree.
01:06:47
Speaker 5: Yeah.
01:06:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, the best point he's made the whole speech.
01:06:50
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he accepts the mantle, kind of. But of course, rhetorically, what he's trying to do is be like, this isn't sex, this is just normal. And it's not. This is outrageous. And I've said this before, and I think it bears repeating. I don't think that I would spend time covering Nick. And I'm glad that people like you do. Because I think that he's somebody that definitely people should pay attention to and deserves... a critical eye, but I don't know how much he fits into the scheme of, of what we cover on this show, but he's on Alex's network doing this. Now, this is so incompatible with the message that Alex tries to sell his brand on that. I think it bears like looking at and being like, really, this is now, this is now info wars. This is, this is their, their content.
01:07:48
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, it's certainly interesting, but it's, yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, I think they're kind of on two different tracks. And there's some overlap there. But when the rubber hits the road, I just, yeah, it is kind of hard to wrap your head around a bit.
01:08:07
Speaker 2: I think that they are fortunate that the rubber has not hit the road. And I imagine when it does, they will turn on each other incredibly aggressively. I hope so. That would be.
01:08:19
Speaker 3: As somebody who has had to spend countless hours of my life both paying attention to Alex and Nick, watching them eat each other alive would be immensely personally entertaining to me.
01:08:31
Speaker 2: I think there would be some schadenfreude, for sure. I would worry about how it could accelerate things for some of their followers.
01:08:42
Speaker 3: Yeah, if one wins the other's audience.
01:08:45
Speaker 2: That's a bad thing. Yeah. But, yeah, it would be it would be interesting to see them take pot shots, especially because like a lot of the stuff like that that Nick uses as ammunition against people that he goes after are all the criminals. that people in the right wing have had of Alex they've all constantly said that he's a shill for Israel they say that he works for Mossad all of this is a tradition that that Nick could pull from and just go to town against Alex.
01:09:16
Speaker 3: Well it's something that Nick does for like everybody else right.
01:09:20
Speaker 2: And it almost feels like he's pulling a punch with Alex. Yeah.
01:09:24
Speaker 3: I mean, just take me for example. Nick fucking hates me, right? Because I was one of the first people that started writing about him. And now when people have questions about Nick, people call me and I'm like, yeah, this guy's a piece of shit. And hold on. Let me just send you a word document. Off and on the record, he sucks. You check all this shit out and you tell me what you think of him. Here's what I think. But it's pretty obvious what he's doing. Like I said, it is veiled with a Kleenex. Um, you can see straight through it, but so he doesn't like me. So when I was at right wing watch, um, I was the sorrow shill, you know, I was working in Jewish interest in some.
01:10:03
Speaker 2: Oh yeah.
01:10:04
Speaker 3: And, um, now I work at TFR lab, which is connected to the Atlantic councils. Now I work for NATO and now I'm CIA. And what is the CIA, but an extension of Mossad. And like, it's just, he always takes it back to like, having some problem with shoes.
01:10:21
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah. It's a very constant refrain on his part. And expect some of that in the future, Alex.
01:10:30
Speaker 3: Yeah.
01:10:33
Speaker 2: Well, Jared, thank you for joining. I'm sorry to have subjected you to this. This is not fun. Listening to Nick Fuentes ever is really not a pleasant thing to do. Not a great use of an afternoon, but I appreciate you joining.
01:10:47
Speaker 3: Oh, it's been a pleasure. It's nice to be in Knowledge Fight HQ.
01:10:52
Speaker 2: HQ. As you can see, I'm sending out buttons to the listeners, and that's the return address, Knowledge Fight HQ.
01:11:00
Speaker 3: Oh, nice.
01:11:02
Speaker 2: KFHQ. It's a treat. Like I told you when we went out the other night and met up for the first time, you're somebody who has been really supportive over the course of the time that we've done the show, and I really appreciate that. And thank you. Oh, absolutely.
01:11:19
Speaker 3: I mean, what you guys have been doing here for so long is important. And you guys understand like a lot of media, especially national media will maybe go to InfoWars or go to Alex and cover like an angle of it, like the tech deplatforming or an angle of it of like, this is this particular crazy thing he said. But there aren't a whole lot of people just really like sitting with it and like watching the show consistently and really getting a feel for like the info wars cast of characters and like sort of how the show works.
01:11:55
Speaker 2: Um, I can tell you why that is. And I think, you know why? Cause you used to do that a lot.
01:12:00
Speaker 3: No, it sucks.
01:12:01
Speaker 2: It sucks. It's a bad show.
01:12:04
Speaker 3: It's not a fun job. Um, but it's, it's unfortunately important. Um, In an ideal world, you know, maybe Knowledge Fight wouldn't have to exist, but for now I'm really glad that it does.
01:12:21
Speaker 2: Well, thank you. I appreciate that, and I'm glad that you're doing the work you're doing as well. Where can people follow you and find some of your analysis and what have you? I know you're just on Reliable Sources.
01:12:33
Speaker 3: Oh, God, yeah. You can follow me on Twitter.
01:12:37
Speaker 2: Alex might talk about you.
01:12:38
Speaker 3: Oh, I hope so.
01:12:39
Speaker 2: He might do a segment on you. He hates Stelter.
01:12:41
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah. I mean, it's always a pleasure to be in the company of such a widely revered potato, the most popular vegetable in the United States. Brian's a good guy. I don't want to roast him too bad. You can keep up with me at Jared L. Holt on Twitter. Don't follow me on anything else because I'm private on everything else. I've got a podcast of my own called Shitpost.
01:13:11
Speaker 2: With an exclamation point, right?
01:13:12
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's S-H exclamation point T-P-T-O-S-T.
01:13:16
Speaker 2: Because people on iTunes won't let you swear.
01:13:19
Speaker 3: Yeah, I typed it in originally and I was like, oh no, I can't. What am I going to do? And then I put in the exclamation point and Now I have to spend 30 seconds explaining to people how to find the show.
01:13:33
Speaker 2: I think in a description of an episode once, I put a swear word, and I saw that it automatically edited. It's like, wow, this is tech censorship, man.
01:13:43
Speaker 3: No cussing.
01:13:44
Speaker 2: Canceled.
01:13:45
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's what we need to talk about. Fuck Nick Fuentes getting kicked off, whatever. This is America. If I want to say, you know, asshole, in the description of my iTunes podcast... I should be able to do that.
01:14:00
Speaker 2: I shouldn't have to use dollar signs.
01:14:02
Speaker 3: Where are you, Ted Cruz?
01:14:03
Speaker 5: Uh-huh.
01:14:04
Speaker 2: Where is Ted Cruz on Free the Nipple? Anyway, we'll be back. Jordan is going to be back from vacation. And so we will have an episode out on Wednesday where we'll check in with Alex. But again, Jared, thank you so much for joining.
01:14:20
Speaker 3: Oh, thanks.
01:14:21
Speaker 2: I guess at the end of this, I'm supposed to say that I'm Neo. I'm Leo. I'm DZX Clark. I'm Daryl Rundus. Andy in Kansas. You're on the air. Thanks for holding.
01:14:31
Speaker 4: Hello, Alex.
01:14:31
Speaker 2: I'm a first-time caller. I'm a huge fan. I love your work. I love you.