Releasing Yourself from The Stress Loop w/ Dr. Gary Sprouse | Ep. 27 [NEW]

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Welcome to No Happiness, the podcast where we explore how we seek, find, and sustain happiness in some of the most unusual places.
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Today I'm welcoming back Dr.
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Sprouse.
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In our first conversation, we explored his work in addiction medicine and his perspective on recovery.
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Today, we're diving deeper into a framework he's developed called the Stress Reducer Loop, a model that challenges conventional thinking about addiction and offers a hopeful, shame-free path toward change.
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Welcome back.
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Well, thank you so much for having me.
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And I'm hoping by the end of this show, we help some person today.
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I'm quite confident we will.
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And like we talked about before, if it helps just one person, then I feel like we both believe our work was a success.
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So, for those who may have missed our first conversation, can you briefly introduce yourself and explain what led you to develop the stress reducer loop?
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Right.
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So I'm a primary care doctor and I was working in my office for 38 years, and I've had the luxury of retiring a couple years ago, so it's been awesome.
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I really enjoyed my retirement, by the way.
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Um but while I was doing that, I found some new insights into where our stresses are coming from.
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And the insight I brought to my first book, Highway to Your Happy Place, a road map to less stress, was that the majority of human stresses are side effects to the skills we have.
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So that means we can envision a future.
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Yay, great skill, but we have the side effect of worrying about it.
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So the book was trying to figure out how to keep the skills and get rid of the side effects.
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And then I added this other thing where you go, hey, we got to find where you want to be, because too many of my patients were saying, I know where I don't want to be, but I don't know where I do want to be.
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So we developed this happy place that's different for every person.
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But what I found was they all had the same rooms, they just decorated them differently.
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So it had things like gratitude and safety and a bunch of different rooms.
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But as I was doing all that, what I found was, hey, if you're doing something to reduce, if you have stress, you have to do something to reduce your stress so you can get wrong with your life.
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And what I found is people do all kinds of different things to reduce their stress.
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People ask me what I do, and I'm like, you know, I watch TV, I exercise, I read a book, I go sit down on my dock, I, you know, whatever, right?
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But when the stress reducer that you picked starts causing stress, well, now you get into trouble.
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So I use this example where somebody goes to work and they have a bad day, and they go, I'm having such a bad day, and they stop off at a bar to get a couple drinks.
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And they drink a couple drinks of alcohol and they're feeling better, right?
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Their stress reducer is working.
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But then as they're driving home, the cop pulls them over and they get a DUI.
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So now their stress reducer just caused stress.
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Stress producer.
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That's that's it.
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That's the word I use, right?
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So then they get home and they talk to their wife and they go, honey, uh, you won't believe it's had a horrible day at work, and then I just got a DUI.
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I'm gonna go get a beer.
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And the wife's like, Are you kidding me?
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You just got a DUI.
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What do you mean?
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What?
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He goes, Well, you know, alcohol is my stress reducer.
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Like, so what happens then is every time they understress, they use their stress reducer, but now because it's producing stress, now they end up in a loop.
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And the loop is stress, stress reducer, more stress, more stress reducer, and now you're stuck.
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Yeah, like a hamster on a wheel.
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Yes.
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And the thing that really gets them stuck is that they've been doing the stress reducer long enough that the brain does what it's supposed to do and makes it automatic.
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So if you go and brush your teeth this morning, if I said to you, how do you brush your teeth?
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You're like, I don't know, I just whatever it is, right?
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Because you don't even think about it, just as automatic.
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Because your brain says, Yeah, we don't want to worry about spending energy on trying to figure out how to brush our teeth, we're just gonna do it the same way every time, and we'll just make it automatic.
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And that's what happens to stress reducers, they become automatic.
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So you don't have to think about them anymore, they just happen.
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And so now when you say, you know what, that stress reducer is starting to cause problems.
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I need to not do that anymore.
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Now you're stuck because your brain's going, no, no, no, you're under stress, the trigger goes off, go do your stress reducer.
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You're like, no, I'm not doing that.
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And they get stuck because your brain wins most of the time.
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Right?
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Well, and I think that's a really frustrating piece for me as someone who struggled with addiction, is that there's so much stigma and judgment and shame.
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And it's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, I'm no different than you are, in that my my brain is doing exactly what it was designed to do.
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It's just as you had kind of mentioned, my stress reducer is different than yours.
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You know what I mean?
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And yet people judge so heavily towards someone with an addiction.
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Like, just stop.
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Why don't you just stop?
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Yeah, right.
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This is why.
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So I didn't make up this model to answer those problems.
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But the model that I came out with generic, I mean, through my own work, solves a lot of those problems.
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Not because I was trying to, just because the model does solve the problems.
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So, and we'll get into it more as we go along.
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Yeah, so you often say people aren't broken, they're trying to solve a problem.
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What do you mean by that?
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Okay, so what that means is in the models that we use right now, that someone has something wrong with them.
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They have a disease, or they're morally deficient, or they're weak-willed, or there's something wrong with their brain, or they have a personality disorder.
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There's something wrong with them, and here's the real problem.
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And it's permanent, it doesn't go away.
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Like once you're a diseased addict, that's forever.
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And it doesn't matter whether you're using it or not using it, you're still an addict, right?
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Or an ex-addict.
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What I found in my model is the process that goes into forming a stress reducer loop is all normal.
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Like you have stress just like everybody else.
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You picked a stress reducer just like everybody else.
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You your brain made it into an automatic track just like everybody else.
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And you said, Hey, I don't want to keep doing this anymore, but you struggle because it's really hard to inhibit that loop just like everybody else.
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So it's all all normal.
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And the difference is the side effects to whatever you've picked.
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So if you read a lot of books, you get a different side effect than if you picked heroin.
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But yeah, the process that got you there is the same.
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Gotcha.
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So here's what I say to people: like, look, I'm trying to lose weight.
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I want to keep my weight down because I'm because I want to stay healthy and be able to exercise.
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But when I'm stressed out, my car just turns into a convenience store and I got a chocolate donut in my mouth.
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And I'm like, how did that happen?
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I didn't wait.
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Where did that come from?
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Why didn't I just say no?
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Because humans are the only organism that can inhibit a track.
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Like we can go see that track?
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No, don't use that track.
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And we can do that.
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Amazing, right?
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It's an incredible skill.
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But it turns out I'm not that good at it.
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So I say, like, if I'm at a function and there's a dessert tray there, I'm like, and I walk past the dirt tray once, then I walk past it again.
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And the tenth time I walk past it, but the 11th time, oh God, that chocolate donut looks really good.
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And you're eating the chocolate donut.
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Yeah.
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So it's like, right, so our ability to inhibit is there, but it's not that great, which is why people tend to have a relapse or a lapse because the triggers are there, you know, you're stressed out, the the treatment's there, and your brain's going, do it, do it, do it.
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And you're like, and comes up with all those reasons why it's okay, and right.
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So what this model talks about then is it top takes it away from because here's what people say when you laugh, they go, What?
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Why were you so stupid?
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Why did you do that?
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Why is your ability to choose so dumb and so weak?
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Like, what the heck is the matter with you, right?
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In my model, what I say to them, like, dude, you were inhibiting this for a certain amount of time, whether it's a couple days or a couple months or 20 years.
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So, what changed that your ability to inhibit that track stopped working?
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And always, invariably, if some stressful thing happened and the trigger went off stronger than it had been in the past, and they were, they were in a, they had less energy to keep that inhibiting up and end up lapsing.
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Well, and I find that really interesting because that was one issue I kind of had with the traditional 12-step program, was that they put so much emphasis on the days.
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And while that's great, people tended to, when they would have a relapse, to forget, you know, you had 75 days of, you know, and so the counting to me seemed a little bit counterintuitive as far as making people feel shameful having to walk in and say, I screwed up again, you know?
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And absolutely.
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I had I had a lady once that I was she was doing a lecture, and here was how her introduction says, Hi, I'm Jill, I'm a I'm an alcoholic.
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And you're like, Okay.
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She goes, No, I haven't drank in 25 years.
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And you're like, Well, that's good, right?
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So I don't know why you're still calling yourself an alcoholic, but whatever.
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So she goes, Well, one day I was in Italy on a vacation, and the menu was in Italian, and I ordered this drink, and it came out and it turned out had alcohol in it.
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And I'm like, oh, so now I've lapsed, I've relapsed.
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And when I went back to my AA program, they're like, oh, now you got to start all over again.
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And you're like, that's literally insane.
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Yeah.
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You had 25 years of sobriety, and because of one mistake of translation, you're gonna start all the way from back 25 years.
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No, that doesn't even make sense.
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So in this model, what it says is look, you got this track in your brain, and it's gonna be there forever because I, my medical people, aren't smart enough to figure out how to zap out the track, so it's gone.
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So what you're left with is you got this track in your brain that you're never gonna get rid of, but that track doesn't have to be the defining of you.
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Like, I don't want people to go, I'm an alcoholic or I'm an ex-alcoholic.
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What I want them to say is I'm a non-drinker.
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Yeah.
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That's the that's the label I want you to take.
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But remember that you have a track in your brain that doesn't take much to get back on.
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And what I say then is I separate laps from relapse.
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So laps is oh, I screwed up, I was in Italy, I ordered the rink and I didn't realize it, and I did it one time, but I haven't done it since.
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So that's good, right?
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So I say to them, out of the last 25 years, you've used one time.
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So that makes you 99.999% successful.
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Yay for you, okay?
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And let's get back on before relapse or relapse is I'm back to drinking every day.
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Right.
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So my job as a clinician is to find people that are trying to stay sober and they lapse.
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And I want to find them when they lapse, not waiting until they relapse, because you're exactly right.
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They lapse, and then people make them feel guilty and they make them feel shameful.
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And guess what that does?
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It increases their stress, and then they go, ah, yeah, like, ah, I just wasted 25 years.
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I'm such an idiot.
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Ah, I'm gonna go that stresses me out.
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I'm gonna go get a drink.
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No, right?
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So what I talk about then is I'm not trying to increase your stress, I'm trying to decrease your stress.
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Yeah, I think that this this is so brilliant, and so there is such a need because the 12-step programs, they're antiquated, they were written back what in the 40s, and they haven't evolved or changed since then.
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And you know, uh we still don't have all the answers and solutions, but there's certainly different, different paths.
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There, in my opinion, there's not a one size fits all.
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But you what you're producing here, what you're stating, I think is is gonna be really a game changer in the world of addiction.
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Well, that's that's what I that's what I see.
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Now, what what'll happen is the world will tell me whether it's accurate or not, because if people come and they get better, then I'm on the right track.
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If they're not, then maybe this isn't the right track.
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I'm not I'm not here to help people who've gone to AA and got better.
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Like, that's not the person I'm looking for.
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Like, I've met plenty of people and they swear by AAA, and I'm like, you know what?
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If AA works for you, go for it, right?
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Absolutely for is the 80% that it doesn't work for.
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These are the numbers that I use.
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I tell people that addiction treatment is successful about 20% of the time.
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That means it's not successful 80% of the time, but it that's misleading because it turns out that only 20% of people who have addictions, or in my model of stress reduced for loop, come to get treatment.
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Right.
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So you're only getting 20% of 20%.
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So you're like, that's not good at all, right?
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No, so that's the person I'm looking for.
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Somebody who's here's what I'm looking for: somebody who recognizes that the stress reducer they're using is causing problems and they need some help getting out of it.
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They need to help breaking their loop.
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Two is that they're committed, they're not just like, well, I think I no, I want somebody who's committed.
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It's like, no, this needs to change, right?
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And somebody who's either tried a program before and it didn't work, or they're not happy with the program they're in.
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Yeah, come to me and let me see what I can do for you.
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Yeah, I I think it's awesome.
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I wish I would have known you all those years ago.
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I mean, I have been in and out of AA and feeling like a failure.
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And the reality was like it was failing me.
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They're just, you know, I I wasn't the failure.
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And well, and it you're yeah, you were working really hard.
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Yeah, it's not that AA doesn't have some good things, right?
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I mean, what AA does is it becomes your stress reducer, right?
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So when you're freaking out, you go, Oh, I gotta go to a meeting, and it's really cheap because you can go to a meeting and it doesn't cost you anything, and there's meetings everywhere.
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So when you're stressed out, you're like, Well, I gotta go to a meeting, or I gotta talk to my my mentor or sponsor, sponsor, yeah.
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And it's like, yeah, so it becomes your stress reducer.
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But I've seen people have AA turn into their loop, right?
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Because I like I had a lady who said, Well, my husband used to drink all the time and go to the bars and never got to see him.
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And now he's in AA.
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And I'm like, Well, that's great.
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She goes, No, not really.
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She goes, now he's at AA meetings all the time, so I still don't get to see him.
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I'm like, Oh, so AA is now causing the stress reduced, he's in the stress reducer lube.
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Yeah, interesting.
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Because, you know, I believe that it it should be, I don't like calling yourself an addict for the rest of your life.
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That doesn't feel good for me.
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And so I always struggled with that.
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And then also that like AA is almost in my mind, was supposed to be like a life raft to help you get across to the other side.
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You shouldn't need to sit in that life raft forever.
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And yet it does become this, you know, I have to bond trauma bond essentially with everybody that's the same.
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And if I don't, I won't succeed rather than getting across the river and and being done.
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Absolutely.
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So, what I see then is so AA, here's what AA does, and here's what we do in the medical community, to be honest with you.
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We go, you're an addict, so you have to put a dunce cap on.
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So now you're walking around your neighborhood and your and your school and wherever else you are with a dunce cap on.
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So people are like, what the heck is the matter with you?
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Why you got that dunce cap on?
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Uh, you know, you said, right.
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So when you go to an AA meeting, everybody has a dunce cap on.
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So guess what?
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You feel comfortable.
00:15:34.240 --> 00:15:37.200
And no one asks you why you have a dunce cap on, because they know.
00:15:37.360 --> 00:15:37.600
Right.
00:15:37.679 --> 00:15:39.120
And they're and you're all comfortable.
00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:42.559
But then you go out back into the real world and now you feel weird again.
00:15:42.639 --> 00:15:43.519
I'm like, no.
00:15:43.919 --> 00:15:45.919
What I want people is you're normal.
00:15:46.080 --> 00:15:47.600
Like, take the dunce cap off.
00:15:47.679 --> 00:15:50.000
If you're not using, then you don't have a dunce cap.
00:15:50.080 --> 00:15:54.559
So now when you walk out into the community, people don't go, oh, why are you wearing a dunce cap?
00:15:54.639 --> 00:15:55.679
It's because you don't have it on.
00:15:55.840 --> 00:15:59.840
Now, if you lapsed or you relapse, okay, put the dunce cap back on.
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:02.559
But while you're not using, you're normal.
00:16:02.720 --> 00:16:03.039
That's it.
00:16:04.159 --> 00:16:04.399
Right?
00:16:04.559 --> 00:16:04.720
Right.
00:16:04.879 --> 00:16:10.159
So this is not a permanent disease, broken, brain damage, genetically defective problem.
00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:17.440
This is you'd had stress and you found something that was working, but then it started causing problems, and now you got to stop doing it.
00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:19.440
And that's not an easy thing to do.
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:23.919
But when you know what you're trying to do, and you have here's the goal.
00:16:24.080 --> 00:16:30.000
Instead of saying, Well, I'm I'm a sober diseased person, I go, You're a normal person.
00:16:30.240 --> 00:16:30.480
What?
00:16:30.559 --> 00:16:32.480
That's something we're shooting for, right?
00:16:32.559 --> 00:16:45.360
And I'm gonna take all the skills that you've been using that got you into the trouble with your stress reducer loop and use those skills to make you an awesome person, not just a sober person, an awesome person.
00:16:45.600 --> 00:16:54.320
Because the people that have been in loops are resourceful, they're really smart, like they had they're doing all kinds of things to keep doing what they were doing.
00:16:54.480 --> 00:17:01.200
So when you stop doing that and you use all those energies for other things and you feel good about yourself, what yeah, it's awesome.
00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:01.600
Yeah.
00:17:01.840 --> 00:17:08.400
Well, and there's so much more to a person than saying I'm I'm an addict, yeah, and and that's it.
00:17:08.480 --> 00:17:14.400
Yeah, I mean, certainly for me, I I now choose not to pick up alcohol.
00:17:14.559 --> 00:17:18.400
I don't like the way it makes me feel, I don't like the way it makes me behave.
00:17:18.720 --> 00:17:28.160
And I found alternatives for my stress reducer to prevent these relapses or lapses as you like to call them.
00:17:29.039 --> 00:17:35.440
So, get what role does stress play in creating and sustaining these loops?
00:17:35.839 --> 00:17:40.079
Well, so what I found is that stress is the underlying problem.
00:17:40.480 --> 00:17:54.640
So instead of calling the treatment the problem, so what we say is, well, heroin is the problem, and we have to treat their heroin addiction, and we have to treat their heroin, and we have to treat their alcohol and their cigarettes or whatever, and it's like that's not the problem.
00:17:54.799 --> 00:17:57.599
Those are treatments, those are treatments for their stress.
00:17:57.680 --> 00:17:59.440
The stress is where the really problem is.
00:17:59.599 --> 00:18:09.279
So if I had a patient that came to me and they were a 400-pound person that had just developed diabetes, I can give them all kinds of medicine to get their diabetes under control.
00:18:10.079 --> 00:18:13.839
But if they lost 250 pounds, then they wouldn't need any treatment.
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:17.039
And I feel the same way in these stress reducer loops.
00:18:17.279 --> 00:18:23.440
If I can get rid of your stresses, or at least get rid of some of them, then you don't need that treatment.
00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:36.480
Because what I see is when people, the more stress they're under, then the more often they have to use their stress reducer, and the more powerful the stress reducer has to be, and that leads you to getting into a stress reducer loop.
00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:38.960
I'll use the Vietnam War as an example.
00:18:39.119 --> 00:18:47.119
When it during that war, 90% of the veterans that were in the war were addicted to something heroin, alcohol, whatever.
00:18:47.359 --> 00:18:50.319
And the military is very concerned when they came back to the United States.
00:18:50.480 --> 00:18:52.480
What the heck are we gonna do with all these addicts?
00:18:53.119 --> 00:18:56.160
Well, when they came back, their stress levels went way down.
00:18:56.480 --> 00:19:00.160
80% of them just stopped because they didn't need it anymore.
00:19:00.400 --> 00:19:01.839
And that's where I want to get people.
00:19:02.000 --> 00:19:05.759
Because what I want to get out of, so the program I'm developing is called Loop Breakers.
00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:11.359
And what I was saying to people is like, look, if you have less stress, then you don't need that stress reducer as much.
00:19:12.079 --> 00:19:19.039
And we kind of just all we have to do is find a different stress reducer that doesn't have the same side effects and make that your automatic track.
00:19:19.119 --> 00:19:25.279
So I've come out with this thing I call wins, which is the way you're gonna do this, is you're gonna learn, get some wisdom.
00:19:25.599 --> 00:19:34.720
You're I'm gonna give you some insight, and then we're gonna find you a new track, and then you're gonna practice that in a safe place until it becomes automatic.
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:36.480
And then you're done, right?
00:19:36.559 --> 00:19:36.960
That's it.
00:19:37.279 --> 00:19:39.119
Then you're back to your life, yay, right?
00:19:39.440 --> 00:19:40.480
And that's all it takes.
00:19:40.880 --> 00:19:45.839
Now, that sounds easy, and I'm not giving I'm not telling you you're sitting here saying that that's easy.
00:19:46.160 --> 00:19:58.319
What I am saying is that it's straightforward and it's it's accurate in that it's gonna use your brain skills that you have that are you're really good at and try to diminish the things that you're not so good at.
00:19:58.480 --> 00:20:04.240
So what I say is like you when we talked about being able to inhibit, incredible skills.
00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:05.839
My dog does not know how to inhibit.
00:20:05.920 --> 00:20:07.200
If she's hungry, she's eating.
00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:09.839
If she has to go to the bathroom, she's having to go out of the bathroom.
00:20:09.920 --> 00:20:11.440
Like there's no waiting around, right?
00:20:11.599 --> 00:20:15.119
So for humans, we can inhibit that tract, but we're not that great at it.
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:19.279
So what what keeps us from being able to inhibit?
00:20:19.440 --> 00:20:22.079
And that's one of the things I talk about is deprivation.
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:27.440
So if people feel deprived, that makes it really hard to inhibit that track.
00:20:28.079 --> 00:20:34.400
So if I looked at that donut and said, Ugh, I don't like donuts anymore, they suck, they da da da da da like what you just said about alcohol.
00:20:34.559 --> 00:20:35.359
You don't like it anymore.
00:20:35.440 --> 00:20:39.279
It's like it you don't like the way it makes me feel, it does all these bad things to me.
00:20:39.440 --> 00:20:41.279
I don't see that as a good thing.
00:20:41.839 --> 00:20:44.319
So why would I be deprived if I can't use it?
00:20:44.720 --> 00:20:46.000
So I use myself as an example.
00:20:46.079 --> 00:20:51.200
I used to drink Diet Coke and I was doing a smoke in in class, and I said, I'm gonna give up something.
00:20:51.279 --> 00:20:52.480
They're like, What are you gonna give up, Dr.
00:20:52.640 --> 00:20:52.880
Frost?
00:20:53.119 --> 00:20:55.839
I said, I'm gonna give up Diet Coke, and they were like, No, you can't do that.
00:20:55.920 --> 00:20:57.039
You drink six Diet Cokes a day.
00:20:57.119 --> 00:20:58.400
I'm like, Yeah, I'm gonna do it, right?
00:20:58.720 --> 00:21:02.319
So I switched to water, and it was really boring, and I was like, right?
00:21:02.480 --> 00:21:06.319
So then I found this flavor and called Mio, and so now I drink water with Mio.
00:21:07.039 --> 00:21:07.839
Well, guess what?
00:21:07.920 --> 00:21:10.480
I don't feel deprived that I can't drink Diet Coke.
00:21:10.640 --> 00:21:17.599
So my wife drinks Diet Coke, and we can be on an eight-hour car ride, and there's a Diet Coke sitting right next to me, and I'm like, I don't care.
00:21:17.680 --> 00:21:18.400
What do I care?
00:21:18.640 --> 00:21:21.359
Like, I got my water with Mio, I'm good to go, right?
00:21:21.519 --> 00:21:28.240
So when I don't feel deprived, then it takes no energy to inhibit that track because there's nothing stimulating the track.
00:21:28.319 --> 00:21:32.480
I have an alternative track now that's gotten used so much that that's my automatic one.
00:21:32.640 --> 00:21:33.680
I don't need the other one.
00:21:33.759 --> 00:21:37.680
It's still there, but I don't ever use it because I don't need it, I don't care.
00:21:37.839 --> 00:21:39.599
So I and this is my fun part.
00:21:39.759 --> 00:21:44.240
I would say to my patients that like I had I took care of a hundred patients that were on heroin.
00:21:44.960 --> 00:21:47.279
And I said to you, stop using heroin forever.
00:21:47.359 --> 00:21:48.799
And they're like, Oh, I'm gonna try, Dr.
00:21:48.880 --> 00:21:49.279
Sprouse.
00:21:49.440 --> 00:21:49.759
I don't know.
00:21:49.920 --> 00:21:54.160
I go, okay, well, here's what I want you to do don't ever eat mud again in your whole life.
00:21:54.480 --> 00:21:55.839
And they would look at me like, What?
00:21:55.920 --> 00:21:57.359
What do you mean don't ever eat mud again?
00:21:57.440 --> 00:21:59.759
I'm like, Yeah, I want you to promise me you'll never eat mud.
00:22:00.079 --> 00:22:01.039
Mud again in your whole life.
00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:03.839
And I'm like, okay, yeah, I think I'll never eat mud again.
00:22:03.920 --> 00:22:06.559
And I'm like, well, why can you say that so easily?
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:12.559
And I'm like, and they go, Oh, because they're not walking past the mud puddle going, ooh, that looks like really good mud.
00:22:12.640 --> 00:22:13.759
I wish you could have some of that.
00:22:13.920 --> 00:22:16.880
It's no, they don't feel deprived that they can't eat mud.
00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:18.880
So it takes no energy to not.
00:22:19.279 --> 00:22:27.039
So when you're on a stress reducer loop, the problem is that when you stop the loop, then the feeling of deprivation starts.
00:22:27.279 --> 00:22:31.839
Because while you're using or while you're doing, there's no deprivation because you're doing it.
00:22:31.920 --> 00:22:35.200
But when you stop, then the deprivation starts increasing.
00:22:35.440 --> 00:22:40.880
And when this is what I say, people have to put in, and I call it quit energy, Q U I T.
00:22:41.119 --> 00:22:43.119
They have to use energy to quit.
00:22:43.519 --> 00:22:50.160
But when that deprivation gets stronger than their quit energy, then you get a lapse, right?
00:22:50.319 --> 00:22:55.599
So you can either jazz up their quit energy and go, okay, I've got you can do this, yeah, yeah, yeah, right.
00:22:56.000 --> 00:22:59.920
Or you can get rid of their deprivation and then it takes no energy.
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:01.359
Interesting.
00:23:01.440 --> 00:23:14.160
I when you were explaining that situation between with your diet coke and your wife, I like one thing I found for myself is I don't I don't feel deprived, but I I don't like being around alcohol.
00:23:14.319 --> 00:23:18.400
And primarily I just don't like the way people act when they're on it.
00:23:18.720 --> 00:23:29.599
And so what would you suggest to somebody who, you know, is is trying to change their stress reducer loop, but they're around people who are drinking.
00:23:29.759 --> 00:23:31.200
What do you do for that?
00:23:31.759 --> 00:23:33.759
Yeah, well, you know, I look at my brother, right?
00:23:33.839 --> 00:23:36.480
So my brother tells me stories when he was younger.
00:23:37.119 --> 00:23:44.640
And I was in college and medical school, so I wasn't around for these situations, but he would go to bars and he goes, I didn't go there to have fun.
00:23:44.720 --> 00:23:47.279
I went there to get drunk, like I went there to get wasted.
00:23:47.440 --> 00:23:51.039
And he goes, and then he's somewhere along the line, he decided I'm gonna stop, and he stopped.
00:23:51.119 --> 00:23:54.400
And he hasn't drank in like 40 years now, I think.
00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:56.160
And he's around alcohol the time.
00:23:56.240 --> 00:23:58.480
I've been in a party with him, and I go, Hey, you want a beer?
00:23:58.559 --> 00:23:59.759
And I'm like, and he goes, No.
00:24:00.000 --> 00:24:01.039
I'm like, well, that was stupid.
00:24:01.119 --> 00:24:02.079
Why did he even ask you?
00:24:02.160 --> 00:24:02.960
That was dumb, right?
00:24:03.039 --> 00:24:05.119
I shouldn't know better than to ask you that, right?
00:24:05.279 --> 00:24:14.240
So he's figured out that like I'm not deprived, and he doesn't mind he has figured out I don't mind being around alcohol, but I'm not gonna be drinking.
00:24:14.319 --> 00:24:20.160
So it's like um it that makes it hard, I'll tell you that right now.
00:24:20.240 --> 00:24:37.680
Like what I've seen with couples, like when one like my wife and I made decisions to lose some weight together, which made it way easier because if one person's trying to lose weight and the other one isn't, the environment that you're in is gonna make it more difficult for you.
00:24:38.000 --> 00:24:40.480
Absolutely, but it doesn't make it impossible.
00:24:40.799 --> 00:24:53.680
So my wife still drinks Diet Coke and I don't, but right, so but it definitely makes it more challenging because the trigger's there more often, and so that makes it more difficult because now you have to inhibit more often, right?
00:24:53.839 --> 00:24:57.759
So if I'm in if I was living by myself, there wouldn't be Diet Coke in my house.
00:24:57.920 --> 00:25:03.200
So for me to get a Diet Coke, I'd have to like get in my car and drive to the convenience store or the grocery store.
00:25:03.279 --> 00:25:05.039
I there's a whole lot more work involved.
00:25:05.200 --> 00:25:08.720
If the Diet Coke's in the refrigerator, like, oh, there it is, right there, right?
00:25:08.880 --> 00:25:23.119
So one of the ways to get out of that is not feeling deprived, and one way is not feeling deprived is having a new track that works as well as, if not better than the track that you were using, then you don't, then what do I care?
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:23.440
Right.
00:25:23.680 --> 00:25:33.519
So I what I found was my water was better than Dye Coke, it was more available, it was less expensive, and I had six different flavors as opposed to Diet Coke that just had one.
00:25:34.160 --> 00:25:39.279
So, right, so for me it was actually a an upgrade, not not a decrease.
00:25:39.519 --> 00:25:40.079
Yeah.
00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:48.240
So what are some signs that someone that may be stuck in a loop without realizing it?
00:25:48.559 --> 00:25:50.240
Yeah, well, this is a big problem.
00:25:50.400 --> 00:25:51.839
This is one of the biggest problems.
00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:57.519
Like I had a a person that I was working with, and he was drinking a lot of alcohol.
00:25:57.759 --> 00:26:00.480
And everybody around him could see that it was causing problems.
00:26:00.559 --> 00:26:05.599
So he'd come in with tremors and he had just he would have passing out spells and things like that.
00:26:05.920 --> 00:26:10.160
And when you say to him, dude, you're drinking too much alcohol, he's like, No, no, no, no.
00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:12.720
I think I have Parkinson's, so I'm gonna go to the doctor and make sure.
00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:16.240
Or I think it's a side effect of my medication, or I think whatever.
00:26:16.400 --> 00:26:24.400
And so people come up with their own rationales for why these things are happening, and they don't link the side effect to the thing they're doing.
00:26:24.640 --> 00:26:29.440
Part of it's because they don't want to, because they're like, I really want to keep drinking, so I don't really want to know.
00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:34.319
But some of it is there's a really a um a blindness that occurs.
00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:36.960
So this is what I talk about with insight.
00:26:37.039 --> 00:26:41.119
So I had a lady came to me and she said, Oh, I really miss my sister.
00:26:41.359 --> 00:26:43.200
And I was like, Well, what do you mean you miss your sister?
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:43.680
Where is she?
00:26:43.839 --> 00:26:45.279
She goes, Well, she lives in California.
00:26:45.440 --> 00:26:47.759
I was like, Well, get on a plane and go see her, right?
00:26:48.000 --> 00:26:49.279
She goes, I can't get on a plane.
00:26:49.359 --> 00:26:50.160
I'm like, Well, why not?
00:26:50.319 --> 00:26:54.240
She goes, Well, because I smoke and I'd not be able to smoke for six hours.
00:26:54.480 --> 00:26:55.359
I can't do that.
00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:57.759
And I'm like, wait, let me get this straight.
00:26:57.839 --> 00:26:59.200
Let me point this out to you.
00:26:59.359 --> 00:27:05.279
You're telling me that one of the side effects of your smoking cigarettes is that you don't get to see your sister.
00:27:05.440 --> 00:27:09.119
And she's like, Whoa, wait, never thought about it like that.
00:27:09.279 --> 00:27:10.160
Wow, that's crazy.
00:27:10.319 --> 00:27:11.599
And then she decided to stop.
00:27:11.759 --> 00:27:17.359
And it's like, yeah, so sometimes, and this I do as a doctor, is I go, oh, this is causing a problem.
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:21.279
Because sometimes people come in with alcohol and they're not having much trouble.
00:27:21.519 --> 00:27:26.160
And then I'll do a blood test, and I go, Yeah, your liver or all, you know, your liver enzymes are irritated.
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:28.720
That alcohol's causing problems that you can't see.
00:27:28.880 --> 00:27:30.400
And I'm telling you it's there.
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:37.839
Other times they come up, they they do this reverse thing where they go, the reason I drink is because my wife's a bitch.
00:27:38.160 --> 00:27:41.200
And you're like, You'd drink too if you had my yeah, right.
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:43.920
The reason your wife's a bitch is because you drink, right?
00:27:44.000 --> 00:27:45.200
So they get it backwards.
00:27:45.440 --> 00:27:51.759
So that is one of the things that I'm that I'm saying to people is like, you have to recognize when it's causing a problem.
00:27:51.920 --> 00:28:01.599
Because it's not easy because because there's a whole bunch of reasons why you're adjusting your behavior through your intentions, right?
00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:10.319
So I was talking to another lady on a podcast, and as I was telling her about stress read loops, she goes, Oh, she goes, I was in a loop when I was a kid, and I was like, Well, what loop were you in?
00:28:10.799 --> 00:28:12.880
She goes, I was reading books all the time.
00:28:13.039 --> 00:28:13.839
I was like, What?
00:28:14.000 --> 00:28:16.400
She goes, I would read books all throughout the night.
00:28:16.480 --> 00:28:20.240
So when I would go to school the next day, I was groggy because I hadn't slept because I'd been reading.
00:28:20.319 --> 00:28:22.000
And my friends were like, Hey, come out and play.
00:28:22.079 --> 00:28:23.279
And I'm like, No, I'm reading a book.
00:28:23.359 --> 00:28:26.160
And my mom was yelling at me because she's like, What are you doing staying in the room?
00:28:26.240 --> 00:28:27.200
Get outside, da da-da-da.
00:28:27.440 --> 00:28:29.759
She goes, and it went all through my high school years.
00:28:29.920 --> 00:28:40.160
And it wasn't until I got to college and someone made me read a book for school that somehow it got into her brain that this is dumb.
00:28:40.240 --> 00:28:41.599
Why am I doing all this reading?
00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:42.960
Like, I should stop doing that.
00:28:43.119 --> 00:28:44.559
And she got out of the loop.
00:28:44.799 --> 00:28:49.680
But while she was in high school, she was in a really bad loop, and it all revolved around reading books.
00:28:50.000 --> 00:28:55.119
So literally anything people do to reduce their stress can turn into a loop.
00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:58.960
And anybody who has enough stress can get into a loop.
00:28:59.119 --> 00:29:00.640
So that's where the key is.
00:29:00.720 --> 00:29:05.839
So reducing stress becomes the real focus of what this treatment's about.
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:35.519
Well, do you think, because I just in my observation out in the wild, I feel like the majority of people, or at least the majority of people I know, have problems with alcohol, who drink a lot of alcohol, that aren't casual, that, you know, are the weekend warriors, but they've just managed to not have a lot of problems as as of now, you know, or maybe they do and they're just concealing that.
00:29:35.680 --> 00:29:36.880
Do you do you see that?
00:29:37.039 --> 00:29:43.279
Or statistically, I know we know less people are getting help for it, so that would kind of make sense.
00:29:43.440 --> 00:29:45.200
But so here's what I find.
00:29:45.359 --> 00:29:49.519
So because I'm thinking of, so we're gonna use alcohol right now, just as an example.
00:29:49.759 --> 00:29:52.000
I think of alcohol as a treatment for stress.
00:29:52.160 --> 00:29:52.480
Okay.
00:29:52.799 --> 00:29:56.000
So then the question is, is the treatment causing side effects?
00:29:56.480 --> 00:29:57.599
So I'll give you an example.
00:29:57.680 --> 00:30:06.160
So I was working at a nursing home, and this guy who was like in his 60s came in because he'd had pneumonia and was coming to get stronger.
00:30:06.640 --> 00:30:11.839
And so on his ER record, it said that he drinks four drinks a night.
00:30:12.319 --> 00:30:17.440
So when his regular doctor came in to see him in the nursing home, he came and said, Bill, you're an alcoholic.
00:30:17.680 --> 00:30:19.119
And Bill's like, Wait, what?
00:30:19.200 --> 00:30:19.839
What are you talking about?
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:20.960
He goes, You're an alcoholic.
00:30:21.039 --> 00:30:22.240
You drink four drinks a night.
00:30:22.480 --> 00:30:26.640
He goes, Well, I'm working every day and the alcohol's not causing a problem.
00:30:26.960 --> 00:30:28.559
My wife is not complaining.
00:30:28.720 --> 00:30:31.359
I don't drive when I'm drinking, so I don't have any DUIs.
00:30:31.599 --> 00:30:34.799
So where the hell do you get off telling me that I'm alcoholic?
00:30:35.039 --> 00:30:38.640
And the guy goes, Oh, you're the doctor said you're just in denial.
00:30:38.799 --> 00:30:40.960
You're an alcoholic, you just have to admit it.
00:30:41.200 --> 00:30:42.880
And the patient fired him.
00:30:43.119 --> 00:30:45.119
And I'm like, because this is why.
00:30:45.279 --> 00:30:55.680
Because you're telling him he's that he is an alcoholic with no proof, and then you're telling him that he has to then accept that he's got a lifelong disease that he can't ever cure.
00:30:55.839 --> 00:30:57.039
Like, who wants that?
00:30:57.200 --> 00:30:58.400
No, get out of here.
00:30:58.640 --> 00:31:02.160
So they brought me in, and I say, okay, here's the deal.
00:31:02.319 --> 00:31:04.319
Like it says you drink four drinks a night.
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:08.960
That puts you in the 90th percentile for alcohol consumption in our country.
00:31:09.119 --> 00:31:10.480
And he's like, wait, what?
00:31:10.640 --> 00:31:11.519
90th percentile.
00:31:11.680 --> 00:31:12.880
I was like, Yeah, it's pretty high.
00:31:12.960 --> 00:31:13.759
It's a lot, right?
00:31:13.920 --> 00:31:16.480
I go, and you're not having problems right now.
00:31:16.960 --> 00:31:18.079
Good for you.
00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:24.960
But at your age in the 60s, alcohol affects your liver, it affects your brain, it affects your heart, right?
00:31:25.039 --> 00:31:26.880
It does a lot of bad things to you.
00:31:27.759 --> 00:31:28.960
And here's what I said to him.
00:31:29.119 --> 00:31:31.680
Do you really think you need four drinks a night?
00:31:32.240 --> 00:31:33.440
And he sat for a second.
00:31:33.519 --> 00:31:34.319
He goes, huh?
00:31:34.400 --> 00:31:35.759
So here's the key.
00:31:35.839 --> 00:31:37.039
Now we're having a dialogue.
00:31:37.200 --> 00:31:37.519
Uh-huh.
00:31:37.680 --> 00:31:37.920
Right?
00:31:38.079 --> 00:31:39.680
And he's like, Well, I don't know.
00:31:39.839 --> 00:31:41.920
Yeah, I don't know if I need to drink four drinks a night.
00:31:42.000 --> 00:31:45.359
He goes, you know, I've been working all day and I'm a little stressed out and it helps me relax.
00:31:45.519 --> 00:31:46.480
I go, I get that.
00:31:46.799 --> 00:31:48.720
You think one drink would get you relaxed?
00:31:48.880 --> 00:31:49.599
Maybe two.
00:31:49.759 --> 00:31:50.640
He goes, you know what?
00:31:50.720 --> 00:31:51.599
Yeah, you're probably right.
00:31:51.680 --> 00:31:52.720
Yeah, I don't need four.
00:31:52.799 --> 00:31:53.599
That's crazy.
00:31:53.839 --> 00:31:57.200
So he left saying, I'm gonna cut down to one or two drinks.
00:31:57.359 --> 00:31:59.119
Now, whether he did or not, I don't know.
00:31:59.680 --> 00:32:00.960
But that's the point, right?
00:32:01.039 --> 00:32:02.319
Because now I'm having a dialogue.
00:32:02.400 --> 00:32:06.079
So he's not kicking me out of the room because I'm not trying to give him a lifelong disease.
00:32:06.160 --> 00:32:09.440
I'm saying to you, you got stress, you found something that worked.
00:32:09.519 --> 00:32:16.319
It's not causing problems right now, but it has the potential to cause problems at the quantity that you're using.
00:32:16.480 --> 00:32:23.759
So, how about we cut down on the quantity and see if you can't still get the same benefit and then not worry about the side effects that come down the road?
00:32:24.000 --> 00:32:31.119
Yeah, I think that's a really smart approach and definitely more digestible to the masses.
00:32:31.920 --> 00:32:38.640
So, what have your patients taught you about the human capacity to change?
00:32:39.200 --> 00:32:39.920
Well, okay.
00:32:40.160 --> 00:32:44.880
So, one of the strengths of humans is that we are amazing at learning.
00:32:45.039 --> 00:32:47.680
Like we're like super, super fast, right?
00:32:47.920 --> 00:32:53.119
So, like, like I watch my grandkids and they're like, I just say something.
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:56.240
Like, we're doing something stupid, we're in a park, right?
00:32:56.400 --> 00:32:58.559
And I'm showing her how to break a stick.
00:32:58.880 --> 00:33:02.319
Like you just put it up on a rock and you step on it and break it, right?
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:04.960
It took her one second to learn how to do that.
00:33:05.200 --> 00:33:05.599
What?
00:33:05.759 --> 00:33:07.119
Like amazing, right?
00:33:07.279 --> 00:33:09.759
If I was trying to teach a dog, they would never get that.
00:33:09.839 --> 00:33:12.079
And a guinea pig, no, don't even try, right?
00:33:12.160 --> 00:33:14.880
So it's like humans are incredible at learning.
00:33:15.680 --> 00:33:17.119
But here's the two problems.
00:33:17.359 --> 00:33:22.480
One is that learning something and making it automatic are two different things.
00:33:22.880 --> 00:33:24.079
Okay, that's one.
00:33:24.559 --> 00:33:33.680
Two is that we are like we have an identity and we have these beliefs in our head, and they're stuck in there.
00:33:34.160 --> 00:33:43.279
And so we can change them, but we're reluctant to do it because that we're like basing our worth on those things that are in our head.
00:33:43.359 --> 00:33:47.759
So when somebody starts monkeying around with them, they're like, Woo, back up, Jack, right?
00:33:47.839 --> 00:33:50.319
So I just finished reading this book called The Real You.
00:33:50.559 --> 00:33:51.200
And what do you think?
00:33:51.359 --> 00:33:52.160
It's a great story.
00:33:52.240 --> 00:33:58.799
Here's the story he tells His daughter is 21 and she's with her friend, and they want to get in a club.
00:33:58.960 --> 00:34:04.400
So they go to the club and the bouncer goes, Nope, can't come in because you've got yoga pants on.
00:34:04.640 --> 00:34:12.320
So she goes around the corner and she takes her friend's jacket and fashions it into a skirt, comes back to the bouncer, goes, Okay, yeah, you can come in now.
00:34:12.719 --> 00:34:14.960
And he's like, That's our brain.
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:20.559
So our brain is a bouncer that says, No, that idea doesn't fit with what's inside, you can't come in.
00:34:20.719 --> 00:34:22.880
Whether it's a good idea or a bad idea.
00:34:23.039 --> 00:34:25.280
So you have to figure out a way to get around the bouncer.
00:34:25.360 --> 00:34:26.719
But here's the stupid part.
00:34:26.960 --> 00:34:28.480
We own the club.
00:34:28.960 --> 00:34:30.800
Fuck club! Like, what the heck?
00:34:30.880 --> 00:34:32.719
Are bouncers not letting our own club?
00:34:32.800 --> 00:34:33.920
That's crazy, right?
00:34:34.159 --> 00:34:46.800
So he goes, what so this is what he says in his book is you have to figure out how to get your idea past the bouncer so they can get in and you can talk to the manager, like, hey, look, I'm the owner, and I want to change what the bouncer thinks.
00:34:46.960 --> 00:34:47.920
So here's what I see.
00:34:48.079 --> 00:34:55.360
When people have low self-esteem, and someone comes to them and says, Hey, you're a really good person, they're like, Yeah, nope, you can't come in.
00:34:55.440 --> 00:34:56.400
That doesn't fit.
00:34:56.800 --> 00:35:01.360
Somebody comes along and says, You suck, and you're like, ugh, I don't like hearing that, but yeah, sure, come on in.
00:35:01.519 --> 00:35:02.960
And you're like, wait, what?
00:35:03.039 --> 00:35:03.360
Right.
00:35:03.519 --> 00:35:10.639
So you have to figure out how to get your you have to figure out how to get these more positive ideas past your bouncer.
00:35:10.800 --> 00:35:12.079
That becomes the critical thing.
00:35:12.239 --> 00:35:21.199
And that's not always so easy, which is why a lot of people end up in therapy for years, and why a lot of people end up in a stress reducer loop, because they don't know what to do.
00:35:21.360 --> 00:35:26.400
So they they can't get in the club, so they're like drinking themselves, so they don't have to worry about going in the club, right?
00:35:26.559 --> 00:35:35.119
So, what I found is then using that guy's work, which was the extension of what I've been doing, it's like, oh, now I know what to do, right?
00:35:35.199 --> 00:35:42.559
So when people come in and they're stressed, their stress isn't just necessarily coming from today, like, oh, I got a bill due and I don't have the money to pay it.
00:35:42.639 --> 00:35:44.239
Yeah, okay, that's a stress.
00:35:44.639 --> 00:35:49.519
Literally, most of their stress might be coming from their past, some traumatic event that they've had in the past.
00:35:49.679 --> 00:35:58.239
It could be coming from some core belief, like, you know, I'm not a good person, or I'm not, I don't feel safe, or I'm not, I don't have any control over a situation.
00:35:58.400 --> 00:36:04.159
Those are all the stresses, or it could be a future stress, like I'm worried this is gonna happen, I'm worried that's gonna happen.
00:36:04.400 --> 00:36:06.800
So the stress has come from all over the place.
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:19.039
And so when I say reduce your stress, I'm talking about reducing it in all three tenses because that's where you need so as you feel less stress, then then getting out of your stress-reduced loop gets a whole lot easier.
00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:20.960
Yeah, that makes sense.
00:36:21.599 --> 00:36:30.480
What gives you hope when it comes to addiction and recovery today with the everything you've learned and everything you're teaching?
00:36:30.880 --> 00:36:36.719
Well, I know in my own office I took care of, I told you, I took care of 100 patients with some with opioid abuse, right?
00:36:37.039 --> 00:36:43.519
And I was getting more than a 95% success rate because I was using Suboxin as a treatment.
00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:50.000
So what I would say to them is, look, you got this treatment that's crazy lethal side effects, heroin, right?
00:36:50.159 --> 00:36:52.880
It's working when you're high, you feel good, right?
00:36:52.960 --> 00:37:00.079
But then you come down and you go into withdrawal and you got needle marks and you're trying to get arrested, and somebody wants to turn in your drug dealer, blah, blah, blah, right?
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:05.440
So I'm gonna give you this medicine that gives you some of the benefits, but not the side effects.
00:37:05.599 --> 00:37:09.199
So I'm gonna give you this Suboxon that will keep you from going to withdraw.
00:37:09.679 --> 00:37:11.840
It's legal, you know exactly what you're getting.
00:37:12.000 --> 00:37:15.360
The government helps pay for it because you're on assistance, blah, blah, blah, da, right?
00:37:15.679 --> 00:37:25.039
But while you're taking that, then I'm gonna teach you how to have less stress so that then you won't need that either, because suboxin doesn't have no side effects.
00:37:25.199 --> 00:37:29.280
I mean, you have to you still have to pay for it, you have to make sure the pharmacy is gonna get it.
00:37:29.440 --> 00:37:32.480
If you don't take the suboxin, you're gonna go and do withdrawal eventually.
00:37:32.639 --> 00:37:36.960
And it's like, so it's a it's a transitional treatment, right?
00:37:37.119 --> 00:37:59.360
So I'm going from heroin, transitioning to suboxin to transitioning off, but that getting off is only when the person's ready because their stress reducers are in place, they've gone through the wind system, they got wisdom, they got insight, they got they've got a new track and they've practiced it till it's automatic, then they're ready to get off that too.
00:37:59.519 --> 00:38:02.079
So, my so I know that it can work.
00:38:02.400 --> 00:38:04.880
I just got to get it in people's hands so they can use it.
00:38:05.119 --> 00:38:05.760
Yeah.
00:38:06.559 --> 00:38:13.039
So, how do you think that this work has changed your own understanding of happiness?
00:38:13.360 --> 00:38:14.559
Oh, a lot, right?
00:38:14.719 --> 00:38:18.880
So, learning about the happy place really changed what I thought about happiness.
00:38:18.960 --> 00:38:24.719
Because here's what I would I would do a seminar and I'd say, okay, tell me where your happy place is, and somebody go, Oh, I like the beach.
00:38:24.800 --> 00:38:26.000
And I'm like, Well, that's awesome, right?
00:38:26.159 --> 00:38:27.760
So, how often do you get to go to the beach?
00:38:27.840 --> 00:38:29.360
And I go, I don't know, a couple times a year.
00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:30.400
I'm like, well, that's nice.
00:38:30.480 --> 00:38:33.199
That means 50 times a year you're not in a happy place.
00:38:33.280 --> 00:38:33.840
What the heck?
00:38:33.920 --> 00:38:34.960
That sucks, right?
00:38:35.199 --> 00:38:50.719
So what I realized when you start looking at what your happy place is and the ingredients that go into it, it's gratitude, it's feeling fulfilled, it's feeling pleasure and love, it's feeling safe and feeling connected and accepted and appreciated and having hope.
00:38:50.800 --> 00:38:54.559
You're like, and then and then feeling contented and peaceful.
00:38:54.880 --> 00:38:55.360
What?
00:38:55.760 --> 00:38:56.960
What a nice place.
00:38:57.199 --> 00:39:01.440
And it's in your pocket, you can take it out whenever you want.
00:39:01.599 --> 00:39:03.360
How freaking awesome is that?
00:39:03.519 --> 00:39:08.559
So I found if I was yelling at my kids, I'm like, you dumb little blah blah blah, why did you do that?
00:39:09.119 --> 00:39:13.840
And I go, oh, wait, let me take my happy place out and go, oh yeah, I'm grateful that I have kids.
00:39:14.079 --> 00:39:16.960
Yay! And I'm learning how to be a better parent.
00:39:17.119 --> 00:39:18.000
Oh, and that's right.
00:39:18.320 --> 00:39:20.320
And I feel fulfilled because I'm being a parent.
00:39:20.400 --> 00:39:24.960
And you're so it's like, my happy place is with me whenever I it's right there.
00:39:25.199 --> 00:39:26.480
Yeah, accessible.
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:28.239
I'm sure that that's very important.
00:39:28.559 --> 00:39:29.199
That's a good word.
00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:29.760
I like that.
00:39:29.920 --> 00:39:37.840
So if you could leave our audience with one message about stress, addiction, and the possibility of change, what would it be?
00:39:38.159 --> 00:39:42.719
So, what I would say to people is look, your stresses are coming from the side effects to your skills.
00:39:42.880 --> 00:39:47.440
So let's figure out a way to get rid of some of the side effects so you have less stress.
00:39:47.679 --> 00:39:57.119
And then you've always figured out, you're smart enough, you figured out some way to reduce your stress, but then you also were smart enough to realize this stress reducer is starting to cause problems.
00:39:57.280 --> 00:39:58.800
I got to do something about it.
00:39:58.960 --> 00:40:00.719
There, that's where you might need some help.
00:40:00.880 --> 00:40:09.280
So you need wind, you need some wisdom, you need to have for how your brain works, you need some insight to attach the side effects to your to what you're doing.
00:40:09.519 --> 00:40:28.639
You need a new track that doesn't have the same side effects, and then you need a safe place where people aren't shaming you and throwing you in jail or putt or locking you up in a rehab for a month so that you can then, but you need someplace that's safe where you can then practice this new track till it becomes automatic, and then you'll be a different person.
00:40:29.039 --> 00:40:49.920
And then you get to see, because when when you do the winds program, you're gonna learn how to have less stress, you're gonna learn these core beliefs, you're gonna have better self-esteem, you're gonna feel like you're in more control, you're gonna have all these good things that come from the program itself, and you won't be in that stress reducer loop anymore, which gives people what I call self-respect.
00:40:50.079 --> 00:40:53.360
Because respect is are you doing things the right way?
00:40:53.679 --> 00:40:57.360
So most people, when they're in a loop, don't think they should be doing it.
00:40:57.599 --> 00:41:00.960
Like 90% of my smokers didn't think they should be smoking.
00:41:01.119 --> 00:41:04.320
So they were doing something that was reducing their self-respect.
00:41:04.480 --> 00:41:06.320
They were doing something they didn't think they should do.
00:41:06.480 --> 00:41:12.719
So when they stopped, it increased their self-esteem and their self-respect because now they're doing what they think they should be doing.
00:41:12.880 --> 00:41:19.599
And so people getting out of their loop would is is straightforward once you know what you're supposed to do.
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:22.320
And the benefits, oh my gosh, so amazing.
00:41:22.400 --> 00:41:36.400
I've seen people who are living in a tent now owning a rehab from this a million-dollar rehab, and you're like, yes, because these people are incredibly smart and resourceful, they've just gotten trapped in their treatment.
00:41:36.559 --> 00:41:40.800
So by getting rid of their treatment, then they're back to not just normal, they thrive.
00:41:40.960 --> 00:41:41.440
Yeah.
00:41:41.679 --> 00:41:46.400
You know, I always say self-esteem comes from esteemable acts.
00:41:46.880 --> 00:41:49.360
And I love what you are doing.
00:41:49.519 --> 00:42:03.199
I think the world needs more of you and more compassion and more understanding and reducing this stigma and saying, you know, there's help available, and it's may not be easy, but it's certainly very simple.
00:42:03.440 --> 00:42:03.760
Yes.
00:42:03.920 --> 00:42:07.760
Is there anything else you would like to share before we end our time here?
00:42:08.000 --> 00:42:09.679
You've been such a wonderful guest.
00:42:09.920 --> 00:42:20.559
Yeah, I just want people to know that there's hope, that there is an answer out there, and they just have to find the right answer, and then their life will turn around and get better.
00:42:20.800 --> 00:42:23.039
There's lots of ways to do this.
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:25.119
My program is one of the ways.
00:42:25.360 --> 00:42:29.840
Just yeah, just keep up your hope and don't resign yourself to being stuck forever.
00:42:30.079 --> 00:42:34.159
Yeah, I think that as long as there's breath in you, there's hope for change.
00:42:34.400 --> 00:42:39.760
Yeah, well, I tell people, I was like, there's no such thing as failure till you stop trying.
00:42:40.000 --> 00:42:40.320
Yeah.
00:42:40.480 --> 00:42:49.119
Like if you're trying to say you want to get sober and you've hasn't worked out three or four times, you're like, you didn't fail until you say, you know what, it's never gonna get better.
00:42:49.199 --> 00:42:50.719
I'm just gonna stop trying.
00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:54.079
So there's no failure, there's just learning.
00:42:54.400 --> 00:42:56.159
It's like, yeah, I learned that isn't working.
00:42:56.320 --> 00:42:57.440
I learned that's not working.
00:42:58.239 --> 00:43:08.400
Well, it has been wonderful getting to know you, understanding what your mission is, and I just want to thank you for taking time out to speak with our audience.
00:43:08.639 --> 00:43:10.000
Well, thank you so much for having me.
00:43:10.079 --> 00:43:12.320
And again, hopefully we helped that one person today.
00:43:12.880 --> 00:43:15.360
I I think we we might just accomplish that.
00:43:15.679 --> 00:43:16.400
Take care, Dr.
00:43:16.559 --> 00:43:17.119
Strauss.
00:43:17.599 --> 00:43:18.400
Thank you.