ChitChat

Final Episode
===

​[00:00:00]


Let's ChitChat!
---

Martissa: Hey, Kin. Welcome to Kinfolk Unscripted

I'm Chanel, a straight stay-at-home mom of a preschooler

And I'm Martissa, a queer married hopefully soon to be mama

This is a podcast amplifying Black and queer presence in wellness, family building, and intentional living. Unfiltered conversations, honest experiences, and the joy of figuring it out together

We're gonna get us a little

sound ba.

ba We gonna get us a little sound

I know. Yeah, we should. That'd be cute


Shoulder Lean and a Tamborine
---

Martissa: All right, Kin, welcome back. Uh, today is our chit-chat episode, so we don't got none structure for y'all, but we will start with our media time per usual 'cause we found a video that we think is just super joyful and we wanted to share it [00:01:00] Lean, lean, come on, come on. Yes. Lean, lean, lean, lean, lean, lean. I need you to show it, show it. Lean, lean, lean. Yeah. Lean. Yeah. I need you to show it. Come on. I need you to show it. Come on. I need you to show it. Hey, hey. I need you to show it. I need you to show it. Lean. Show that thing. Show that thing. Yeah. I need you to step a little, show that thing.

Show that thing Okay. So, oh, and this was-- Hold on. Let me give credits. This was @lentlawson_. So I don't know. I just, I, I love Black people. I mean, like fucking love Black people. The amount of soul, the amount of soul. But also where did the tambourine come from? That's what I have questions about because why, [00:02:00] where there's a tambourine in the car already

It's so funny. Is this the first time you've seen this person's content?

No, I think oh, well, I think that's the only piece of content I've seen from that person. But I think you had sent it to me before, and so

Yes. They are silly as fuck, and they be doing this to different songs, and they be

having cameraman

just in the damn car. And I'm like, "This is so... This is the Blackest shit I've ever seen." Like, literally In

the best way, yes

Literally, it was the, um, she hit that tambourine

and then the lean

I was like, "Okay, come on, lean."

I just love, um, and I don't have all, like, the proper terms because I'm, wasn't raised in, like, the music world, but I'm very much, like, you know, a music fiend. And I love the mixing of genres. You know, 'cause we got the [00:03:00] gospel with the early 2000s hip hop mixed in together. And what I've been learning recently is how...

So I mean, obviously, yeah, pretty much all music was started by blues. But even before that, blues and jazz, but even before that, ring shouts. And I didn't, I had no idea what that was. So a ring shout is when enslaved people, like, we were not allowed to, like, dance. Um, so they would, they would stomp and not cross their feet, because that would be considered dancing.

They would stomp, clap hands, and go around in a circle. And so that was the basis for then blues and jazz, and then obviously blues and jazz for rock and roll, and then, you know, R&B and hip-hop and all that. It's kind of how it progressed. So yeah, I think it's... Right, yeah. So I think it's pretty cool[00:04:00]

Yeah, I love that. I love that. I had no idea that you can dance. I mean, the way

Unpacking is so deep.

is insane

I know. The hate is so deep because how you mad at me 'cause I can dance?

Man, and got something to shake.

You know? And despite everything that you have thrown at me, I still have a reason

Man

to dance and be joyful. You know? Hold joy and express it with my people. But no. But anyway, yeah, so that's why I'm like, that mixing together when she hit that Like I was like, "Oh my God."

It's so good. It's so good. I love, uh, for me it's the church clap. Like, I

love good

I love one of them, the double claps, you

Yeah

I love it. Yeah. That video, I love her content. I love when I see another one 'cause I'm like, she's silly as fuck, [00:05:00] bro. Like, just so silly

Yeah. I'm gonna have to look at some more of her content


Starting School and New Beginnings
---

Martissa: Yeah. Well, what's up with you?

Hmm.

What's up with me? Well, Oakley started school for the first time. Um, it's about, this is her third week, and she hasn't had a three consecutive full weeks yet because of, you know, sickness and all that, but so far it's going really good. She really enjoys it. Every time I pick her up, she just l- like, I can see her through the window, and she looks so, like, happy, like she's enjoying herself.

Um, she complains every time that, like, she doesn't wanna do naps. It's boring. But she doesn't even sleep. Like, she just lays there, and now they don't even make her lay down anymore. She's just, like, playing with Play-Doh or, like, doing other things that... 'Cause right now they're working on, like, the motor skills, still getting those, like, as refined as they can so that the [00:06:00] handwriting can become easier.

So she'll usually... They do quiet stuff, the kids that don't nap during nap time. But it's just her and another girl, and she's always complaining about that, but she looks so happy when I pick her up during that time, so I'm just like, "You love it." Like, yeah. So that's really cool, and I'm, I'm really proud of her, and I think it's just...

Yeah. It's exciting. It's a new time. So yeah, it's kinda crazy how it's just like you make a decision, and one day that's the literal end of an era. Like, you've com- started a complete new chapter of life, and yeah, it's insane how, how fast, honestly, that time went by. But yeah, it's only three days a week, so still full-time momming the other five days or, or four days.

So yeah

Yeah. Well,

That's that

I'm super, excited for her. I know she was like, "When am I going to school?" Where--

so excited

pret- you know, doing her pretend, talking about she was at school, you

I know. Having the backpack [00:07:00] on.

Yeah. I'm so happy for her. Happy for y'all. It's exciting. Growing up is exciting.

It is. It's super exciting, and you can tell already that, like, you know, it, it's impacting her in different ways, like, in different ways that she tries to be more independent at home. Or not tries, is. She's already pretty independent, but, you know, like, it further, um, like, pushes her to be... Especially 'cause she's at a Montessori school, so they do really promote, like, individual individuality.

So yeah, it's pretty cool. I really wish that we could find a great one closer to home. That's, you know, for another time. But otherwise, yeah

Yeah, I'm excited for y'all. Super excited for y'all


Who lied to us about China???
---

Martissa: Yeah. What's up with you?

Well, I just got back from Beijing,

Right

and I went to Beijing, for those who don't know, I went to Beijing with me and my aunt. It was just the two of [00:08:00] us. It was so much fun. We, um, stayed with, um, a friend's daughter of hers who works for the embassy and, um, her two kids, and it was amazing. Like, Beijing, I was like, China is the best kept secret.

Like,

truly

'Cause the way-- At least let me say it like this. The way that foreign privilege works out there, I was like... Especially coming from a country that don't give no foreign privilege, like could give less of a fuck about foreigners, right? They, mm-mm.

What do you mean? Give us an example

The downside. The downside is, um, specifically like in the more touristy, if you're going, like we went to the, um, [00:09:00] Temple of Heaven and the Forbidden City, and we went to the Great Wall of China, which was incredible.

Um, because that brings like foreigners from all over, but specifically Chinese nationals from all over, some of them motherfuckers never seen a nigga before

Oh.

And they can be everywhere between sneaking a picture of you to grabbing you to take a picture with them

Yeah, I experienced that in Thailand

And I was like, at first I was like, "Okay, okay." And by the end of it, I was done. I was so sick of it. I was so sick of it. But, um, other than that, like just in general, people are-- I would say Beijing was the most orderly city I've ever been to in my life. [00:10:00] Wow calm, even-- It's a massive city. I mean, it's got million people.

Like it's massive. But to still be so calm and like people do, you know, they're just ord- literally orderly. Like shit just be in its own place. They don't play about cleaning them gro- them floors. The floors, the ground, none of it. Like they don't play with none of that. Seen people sweeping on the sidewalk, seen people, you know, we went to the mall like every other day and they had a little-- They believe in the robots out, out there.

They had the robots doing the cleaning the floors.

Oh, that video you sent where the robot delivered your food

Yes.

Yes then got on the elevator by itself.

Crazy work. Crazy work. We saw robot dogs. I've seen them on the internet, but I've never seen them in, in person. Seen the damn robot dogs and everything. And I was like, "This is..." I [00:11:00] s- and there was, like, a actual robot robot on the Great Wall of China.

I was like, "What are you doing up here? At

what what is the purpose You're gonna have to show some pictures

Yes. Yes. I will, um, I'll put some, like, pictures here or, you know, we'll put some pictures. Or actually what I'll do, we'll do-- instead of doing it on here, go to our Instagram, go follow us on Instagram. I'll make a little reel or, like, a little, uh, carousel. Yeah that'd be

cute

but, uh, yeah, Beijing was amazing. The food was really good.

Um, I will say, I kept saying this, that, like, Chinese folks are not friendly, but they're nice. Like, you know how here we are really big on, like, the appearance of niceness? [00:12:00] "Hello," smiling at you, you know, all of that, especially in the Midwest, like it's up South, so, you know, walk down the street smiling at people, yada, yada.

You know, "How you doing?" Small talk, that kind of stuff. They don't do none of that. They not doing none of that, at least not for, to me, you know? I was smiling at people and they would just look at me, look through me like- But they were super nice. Like, "And need help with anything," like just really accommodating. Um, yeah. Anyway, Beijing was amazing. It was amazing. Can't wait to go back. I'll be back. I'm going to Hong Kong next time.

Yes, I definitely wanna go to Hong Kong

Yeah. Yeah. So it was

a really cool.

Great time. I am-- That jet lag is no fucking joke. Like I-- We're recording this on a Friday. I got back on Monday early, early morning. [00:13:00] I still haven't slept a full night's sleep. Like, yesterday was the first day that I made myself stay up the entire day and was successful, 'cause I tried days before but

couldn't

And but so this, today is my only, my second day being up all day and still I don't be tired until like 2 o'clock in the morning and still waking up randomly throughout the night. It's just, yeah,

By next week you should be back good. But yeah, it takes a little minute

Yeah. Yeah, for sure. So yeah, that's what's up with me

Wow. That's amazing. I'm really glad you had a great time. Love world travel. Um, I can't wait to get on a jet or

something


A Little Rapid Fire
---

Martissa: But yeah. All right, Kin. Well, as I mentioned, this is our chit-chat episode. We just gonna be kiki-ing here. Um, I do have a few rapid-fire questions , Okay, [00:14:00] are you ready?

Hit

Okay. What's one thing you always lie about?

Oh. I don't lie.

Hit

right in the chest. Bullshit, come on

What's one thing I always lie about? I don't fucking know

welcome back. Last show you s- you been start to finish

Um, I'm in the middle of binging Pluribus on Apple TV. Very good

Oh, okay. They keep advertising it to me, but I'm just like, you know ... Okay, wait. Well

We'll back

We'll come back

I know. I can't help myself. I'm just like, I have trust issues. I can't just be starting new shows, you know? Like, you really have to prove yourself. But

anyway

go-to excuse to leave a party.

That's all

What'd you say?

That white woman is gonna piss you

off Okay, so go-to excuse to leave a party early

I'm about to go. I'm ready bed[00:15:00]

If your phone died right now, what app would you miss the most?

Instagram 'cause I'm fucking addicted. I'm a fiend.

Oh, no. Okay, most auntie thing you said this year.

God child.

Yes,

I would agree My whole vocabulary is

auntie

I don't know what

to tell you it... Oh my God. Okay. What's one word for your love life right now?

Thank you. I know words, but that's, you He

yeah. Nah, that's cute. That's cute. I love that. Um, okay, no, I wanna talk about yours before you

ask

You need to think of one thing you always lie about, okay? There's no way. Now even if it's ... 'Cause the thing is it could be unconscious, where you're just kinda like, Mm.[00:16:00]

thing that keeps coming to mind, and this has a lot of stimula- stipulations, and I hope no future jobs is listening to this because

that's what I'm applying to

But is that I have a degree Mm again, stipulations 'cause a motherfucker have been in school four years, walked across the stage. Do I have a degree in my hand?

No, I don't. And that's neither here nor there. Everybody can

It's really, yeah, it's really not, like

It's not even worth it.

You, you know your stuff and

Right. And now

I got

what? A almost 10-year career behind me. It's fine.

yeah

That's the only thing

Yeah

that's great. I love to hear that

I don't be lying. I, you know, I grew up with a Virgo mom. Don't fucking play with that shit.

Yeah, I know. I

To this day, I be scared to lie

But yeah, for me, I just never [00:17:00] really saw the point 'cause my mom, I always felt like she would find out. So I would tell her before I even... Like, if something happened at school or outside of school, I would literally come home and be like, "This is what happened," immediately

I feel like what I would do when I, when I was younger is that I wouldn't lie, I would omit sometimes. And then later after I did the thing that I wanted to do in the first place, then I would tell.

Nagyi?

Then I'd be like,

Listen

if you gonna find out regardless, I'll you, but I- it's already done." Like-


Pluribus + Insufferable White Womaness
---

Martissa: Again.

And then Pluribus. Go ahead and turn that shit on. It is so interesting, the whole premise, and I won't give nothing away. The whole premise is that there's this virus that, uh, apparently is a little bit of a plot hole about where it came from, but it seemed like it [00:18:00] came from outer space many light years away.

Nosy ass scientists here in America synthesized the thing and then fucked around and ended up spreading to the entire population of

the I'm stupid. Fucking idiots.

What So then everyone becomes one Everyone becomes, on the entire planet, becomes one. In their same bodies, but they become one mind Except 11 individuals out of the billions of people on the planet

That's taking hive mind to a new level

And it's about the people-- Well, one insufferable white woman And, you know That woman pissed me [00:19:00] off so bad. It's just, it's, her attitude is so It is, it is a, um, a very good, um, illustration of white womanhood

You know what Manny said? He said that he thinks Apple TV is purposely making these white women villains because we keep watching shows where like it, they, they are villains like real life. Not like, "Oh, I have a cape on," and like, but like real life shit that they do where they are the antagonist of a story.

But Apple TV has been making a lot of shows like that. And I was like, "You right. You right." because, you know, if we're all being honest with each other, which I like to do, they are. So yeah. Anywho, I'll think about Pluribus. Um I'll think about it. But I... What was the next thing you said? Go [00:20:00] to a sweet to leave a party early?

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um,

Because I'm gonna I wanna leave. That's just the end of story

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, Instagram, I think a lot of people could probably identify with, you know, that app being, being a problem.

You talk about got me

in the chokehold

And don't let me get on Threads. I literally have to like pause my Threads usage because the algorithm knows that I'm here to laugh. I'm here shock and awe and to laugh. Like, it's gonna continue to give me that to the end of the world, you know?

Mm.

And then I definitely can't watch it, like, if I'm like randomly scrolling at night and Mars is like asleep or something.

I can't, I can't scroll on Threads because I'm gonna bust out laughing. Like I'm gonna wake them

up That's so funny Um, okay, and then you said... Oh, for your love life, cute. I [00:21:00] love that. That's super cute.

Yeah. Yeah. She been cute. She been cute. Okay, well let's do it. Uh, and this seems very unfair because you, you came up with the questions, so- Yeah

Do you wanna come up with some questions? Because

of

I don't that kind of thing. Um, okay. One thing you always laugh about

I don't know. I feel like it's kinda similar. I don't wanna just be out here lying to people. What I will say is probably, um, Oakley sleeping through the night because, you know, every time I say that shit, she ends up not sleeping through the night. So I don't know. That she, uh, she's made,

about that to?"

she's made me a liar more than once, uh, more than twice, more than thrice about so I must, I just better stop saying that shit because I don't know if that'll ever be a consistent thing that happens

Hey, I'm so sorry. That's horrible. Last show you binged start to finish?

Okay, I don't really get to do this that much. Like [00:22:00] I really like, like want to. Um I don't know. I guess recently I've been watching Queen Sugar. I've already seen, like, seasons one through four, but I had been taking a break the past two years. Like, on and off I'll watch an episode, and then I'm in shambles and I need to take a few months of a break.

Because, like, the way that it, like... Huh?

That's why I can't watch it

The way that it picked back up was, like, after the panty, it sh- you know, Ava decided we're gonna put that into the show, and it was like, whoa, I love everything that you do, Ava, but, like, we're fresh out this panty and now you wanna put us right back in, and I can't actually do that.

Now I feel like I'm far enough away that, like, you know, I'm able to actually finish the show. 'Cause I've been wa- it's been over for, like, two or three years, and I really love that show. So now I'm finally almost done. Yeah, and, and yeah, they're not wearing masks as much anymore, so that's great. [00:23:00] So yeah, I'll say that one.

That's definitely probably still one of my favorite shows in general, so I'm happy to finally finish

Yeah. We're gonna come back to this 'cause there's a few shows that we need to have a conversation about.

Oh, okay.

these. Um, go-to excuse to leave a party early

I need to get to my bed.

Why

I,

and person?

I, yeah, I literally will be like, "I need to get to my b- I need to go to my bed." Um, or I just won't say anything because sometimes you know how people can be. Like, "Oh," like, "No, you need to stay. Oh," like, "We're still..." You know, and you're one of those people. Why you shaking your head?

And sometimes I just have to do an, an Irish exit because, you And that's

why I be having to watch you.

Because

and give me pep talks before it.

If your phone died right now, what app would you miss most?

I would say the app that controls my [00:24:00] thermostats in the house because I'm always, like, changing them, like, when I be hot and stuff. And lately it, like, it logged me out, and I don't know how to get back in, so I'm really struggling having to go to each room and change the thermostat.

Damn.

Yeah, so that's probably...

I missed that out.

'cause I

It's great

I need that. Um, most auntie thing you said this year

Am I actually the hardest one for me? I don't know

I don't know. Y'all want some popsicles?

I made

you guys popsicles

One word for your love life right now

Um, Horizon Yeah, I think, I think that's a good word. I feel like there's bright things on the horizon


The Polygamist
---

Martissa: I love that. Back to these shows [00:25:00] First off, we b- we both should have said, but I guess it's been a little bit, eh, we, but we both should have said polygamist. The polygamist

What I wanna say is the only reason I actually watched that show was because I, uh, Martissa was because Martissa said, "I need you to watch this show." So I was like, "All right, I'll give it a go." I love out- South African, like, novellas, and so I was like, "I'll..." That shit was fucking crazy, and it was really hard for me to stay through it because I was like, "I cannot."

Like, this is actually insane, and it just kept, it, it just kept getting worser and worser. Like, it was just like this, well, this is clearly the worst thing. Oh, no. Goddamn, even worse. You know? Like, it kept happening like that, and I was just like, I, this is, this is, this is, this is a lot. But I did watch it.

I watched it all the way. I mean, yeah, I watched it all the way through and I just

You talking about the definition of mayhem and calamity.[00:26:00]

It's

Like,

chaos and violence

I-- like, so mind you, Mars and I watched, like the first... The first episode was hard to get through. I was like, "This is boring." The second episode, I was like, "What the fuck about to happen?" And like the third episode, I was like, "I can't watch this shit."

Like, this is crazy. Like, this is just insane. We had put it down, and it was our hairdresser that was like, "Y'all have to finish the show." And I was like, "Oh." Like, it was hard to get through. I think those first 11 episodes, I was like, "This is rough." But by the time you get to like halfway through the show, you're like, "Now I'm committed."

Like, there's no backing out of this. And when are y'all gonna kill this man?

I know. That was for me. And I know, like, I don't like to give spoilers, but I really don't feel like this is a spoiler because it's on the first episode where they show that he's, he's dead by the end. So you're just kinda waiting to find out when, what's gonna happen. But mind you, I had forgot about that by this point, 'cause [00:27:00] they got so many goddamn episodes.

So I'm like, "What am I even watching this for," right? Then I remembered. I was like, "Oh, yeah, when and how and who is gonna do this?" Right? So that's what I really wanted to know. But girl, that shit was crazy. That was just so insane. I don't even know what else to say about it. Did you give any of those other South African shows I, I told you about a watch?

No. Mm-mm. 'Cause it's really not my favorite genre. Like, I don't

like a

dumb show.

They're not, no. Those shows are be- no, they're not... Oh, I see what you mean. You said dubbed Yeah. They are, but it's not, it's, it's not that bad. It's not as bad as this one. 'Cause I feel like you could tell a lot

Yeah.

that the words weren't matching

my experience of dub shows is with like, um, mostly like anime dub

I can't do dubbed anime. Like, well, it depends. It [00:28:00] depends. But anyway, yes, I definitely think you should watch those two. They're really good. Like, they're super funny. Well, one of them is super funny, the other one is just really suspenseful. You know I love the suspense, but yeah.

for the folks

oh yeah, right. One of them is How to Ruin Christmas,

Okay

and there's a few of those ones, and then the other one is Savage Beauty. And what I wanna say is, I don't have no proof of this, I'm just talking off the top of my neck. I feel like, because I've also watched Beauty in Black, and I just wanna say for the people, it's a terrible show. It's bad in the sense, in, in every way you could think of. The acting, the writing, the plot, bad.

But it's just so addictive. I, I can't help it. I literally cannot help it. So but I think that Tyler Perry took the premise of Savage Beauty and made Beauty in Black because there's so [00:29:00] many similarities. Like, when I was watching the first season of Beauty in Black I was like, "I've seen this shit before," you know?

Yeah, literally. And then, um, there's another show that I can't remember that I feel like he mixed in with that. Um, but anyway... Oh, P-Valley. He tried to sprinkle that. It, it's not giving what P- P-Valley gives, um, because P-Valley has amazing actors, writers, directors. The plot gets thicker and thicker. And, um, and the fucking, um, soundtrack of P-Valley is phenomenal.

Like, that last season they did magic. Yes. So, like, they doing real art over there. This is just play-play. But i- regardless, you know, I, I, I like to watch both. So those are the shows

I will say this, if you haven't watched "The Polygamists" and you need some mess

in your

life, just mess for mess sake. Like it's quite literally a novella. Like [00:30:00] it is a soap opera. You go in knowing that, that every fucking episode is going to have another turn, another crazy thing that don't make no kind of sense that all of this is happening, go ahead and watch it

Mind you, I didn't go in knowing that

I should have told you that

Because I was like, "What the fuck?" Honestly. Like, what is this? I, I like a real story, you know? Um, so that was really... But, you know, it was still, like, entertaining for, it was just, just craziness. But I guess... But, but my threshold for that kind of stuff is short, and Beauty in Black was already holding that threshold.

So that's why I was like, "Look, this is crazy." But, but yeah, you, if you know that, then hey

The actors acted they asses off in that show though

Oh, they were acting. Like that, the main wife, girl

Did her thing. I mean, I still think it's so interesting because Jonas, the man, the man that all of this shit is [00:31:00] about, he apparently is having a hard time getting more work in South Africa because of how good of a job he did

with this People

can't detach him from that character. And

He was bad

he was bad.

I mean, he was so but he was

Yeah. So Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

And apparently he's done interviews where he's talked about how this is so far left from his actual

personal like

character that

I would hope to God

he almost, turned down the role.

Really?

'Cause he was like, "This is And I'm like, he did the fuck out of that 'cause every time he would make that face when he

Oh my God

He made the same face every time he was aroused, and it would be like my stomach would start turning 'cause I was

like This is fucking

disgusting."

and I, 'cause I noticed that, and then it was something, 'cause Manny wasn't watching it, I was watching [00:32:00] it, but then when I was describing it to him and I was just like, and, and I literally mentioned, I was like, "And then he makes this face every time," and I'm like, "It's just so like..." And then he was like, "That sounds gross."

I was like, "It is." Like, but they did a good job of making you feel different emotions. He did a amazing job of making you feel a lot of different negative emotions.

Yes. It was to the point... Okay, spoilers because we gotta get into it.

Wait, no, you can't spoil for people

I'm telling spoilers, so skip through this part. It'll be all right. You c-

Oh, Lord

a fast-forward button. Um, I think the part that was the hardest for me was how he treated his kids. Like, that shit kept fucking me up.

I was

It was all hard

all of it was hard, but I was like, everyone else is consenting adults. children

They were not all consenting throughout the entirety of things

Yeah, that's true. But at a certain it [00:33:00] y'all can-- y'all chose, made a conscious decision. Essie, bitch, please

The way that the, the, her daughter and son got really the shortest ends of the sticks, it was just so messed up. I mean, to see, you know, everything that her daughter was doing to get attention and her son, you know, become an alcoholic just like her is just really crazy. But I mean I feel like they did a really good job of showing the repercussions of parenting fuck-ups.

Yeah

And not just like, you know,

Not

like these, yeah, these are like, yeah, really intense, like you don't give a fuck about like how they're gonna be affected whatsoever because you're mainly just driven by what you care about. Or, and you can't even see your own, like, you can't see your own shadows [00:34:00] because Essie had s- her self-esteem was so low that she allowed herself to be treated that way for decades, and her children.

Oof.

So I some on

the side and on the left and, you know. I think that that

was she, but how you gonna let your kids be treated like that? Why is he still coming around? You know? You're pretending to be, you, you, you pretending to have a whole marriage for somebody else. Hello?

Crazy. And that your child is not his child You know

time she just wants to be accepted by him, and they all know it. So anyway, yeah. It, it, it, yeah. But I mean, obviously I, I, I'm not gonna put everything out there. But yeah, there were, to me there were worse parts, you know?

Oh, yeah, there were worse. I mean, the, I mean, him, the d- the DV was also another part for me where I was like, "This done got too far."[00:35:00]

'Cause I didn't see that coming at all, and I was just like, "Why, why was that necessary?"

I didn't see that either. Especially how he did M- I mean both, but how he did Matifa?

Yeah,

I w- it was up until that point I was like, "Matifa, you got everything that you deserved because girl, quite literally asked for this," you know?

You did. but that

was when he did that, I was like

No.

Crazy

It was crazy for me how she came back. She left her children, which I understand she needed to take care of herself, but girl, you came back with a new husband. So you been out there... I mean, you coulda came back for your kids once you got, got it together, but

Well, sh- I think getting it together was part of meeting the husband. 'Cause, you know, it's also a different culture. It's much more patriarchal

Sure, but that's not how everybody is, not saying

everybody, but she gonna get her a man with

her [00:36:00] specifically, that is how, how Matipa is specifically. She's a gold digger, and so she went to go find another one basically. But it's just like over your kids? That was really crazy to me,

I feel like, okay, I didn't see it like it was over her kids. I saw it like she needed to go and get her stability so

Her stability involved another nigga. I, she left him for years with a woman who was also abused by that man, found some new dick to ride, and then came back her children

I don't see it as just she found some new dick to ride. She found another check. She found another check. She found stability. She found a home. That was her, her career. She was a career gold digger, so she had to get her shit in place. That's how I

see hey, and we could see it different ways. 'Cause no fucking way I'm going [00:37:00] out to chase a man and leaving my kids with, with the wife of a, of another man. What the fuck? Like, that's crazy

Yeah. I mean, I, I couldn't imagine leaving my kids period, point blank, end of story, point-- you know, end of story. And also if that's your career path, that's your career path.

I just,

Get it how you live, you

yeah.

He was fine I was like, "You did better than Jonas."

Well, yeah

I mean, I-- we don't know. He didn't open his mouth but I

Yeah, I know.

"And she looked good as fuck."

I said, "Go ahead girl, get

Kids didn't know who the fuck she was though.

No, they

They didn't even know that was they

mama they were infants when she

I was just like, this is insane. Like, I don't know, you know? But, but yeah. Anyway, we've talked enough about that show. Oh my God. Um Yeah, I think, I think that's it from the rapid fire

That's [00:38:00] it for Rap Fire. But I do have something because this is making me think. I just finished-- So I just finished, um... Okay, wait, let me go back. I am doing some series of writing right now, and part of that project, 'cause I don't know what the project is going to be, I just know that I have these interests, right?


Mothering as Exploited Labor
---

Martissa: And, um, part of that project is I've created this, uh, what I'm calling, like, the Radical Mama, um, syllabus. So I have, like, a bunch of books that I wanna read, um, and, like, essays and things that I wanna read that's in connection to this, like, writing about becoming a mother both spiritually and physically.

Um, and one of the essays I read, I'm trying to remember who it was by, but it was in the anthology "The Black Woman" by, uh, Toni Cade Bambara. And in the essay, she [00:39:00] describes her life and how sick, one, our society is built so that men don't have the same kind of responsibility to their kids as their moms do, and how our society enforces that on top of it. And so the story's really sad, but she writes about it with a lot of humor. Um, and she talks about how she-- that all this shit was happening, right? She was supposed to be getting on wealth. She was in school. She had to quit school because she had to work and all this stuff, all this stuff. But end of the story was that she was having a mental health breakdown, and she didn't have family or friends to be able to support.

And so she went to, like, the adoption agencies or, you know, the child welfare, and she was like: "I'm not well enough to take [00:40:00] care of my kids." They're like: "Well, where's the daddy?" You know? He gets off the hook on having to do that, and her only recourse is to check herself in, which means that then her kids get put in foster care. And I was-- I have been thinking about the way that, like, you know, we always-- We know this, that, like, once you have a child and you're a mom, like, you don't have any other choices. And we look horribly on women who make different decisions, right? If you put your kid up for adoption, there's a stigma with that.

If you've raised your kids for a while and then give them up or put them up for adoption or any, any number of things, have a family member take care of them, whatever, there is such a massive stigma, and I'm not saying there should be or not. But what I think was interesting about [00:41:00] this essay was this woman really breaking down the fact of, like, she's like: "I don't have the money to take care of these kids.

I don't have the mental fortitude to take care of these kids right now." And there is no support, governmental, family, or to the person who actually he-ma- helped me make these kids to have to support. And talking about Matipa giving up her kids, you know, after she went through something horrific, is bringing that back up, that essay back

up

because I'm like, there quite literally is no-- The only way that we I feel like moms have access to that is if they have family support

Yeah, for su-- and, and that's sometimes because I'm thinking about, um, Lindsay Clancy right now. Um, and I don't-- I'm, I, I wasn't prepared for this conversation, so I didn't [00:42:00] look up all the ins and outs. Um, I haven't been following her trial closely either, but I do know that she was a mother of, was it two or three kids?

Three kids that she, you know, unalived.

Yeah. And

had postpartum like

had-- my

understanding I have also

not looked into it deeply either. My understanding is that had really intense postpartum depression, y'all fact check us, really intense postpartum depression and had sought help prior

Yeah. No, but it was s- postpartum psychosis that she had. And she did s- she did, she reached out to her husband and was like, "Hey," like, "I'm not feeling good," right? About life, right? About taking care of these kids. I don't know if I should be. She did go, I think she went to therapy. She went somewhere else as well.

And her husband was kinda just like, "Oh," like, you know, "It's cool." And everybody kinda ignored her. Now, and this is just, you know, what she's saying and, you know, whatever, but she did reach out more [00:43:00] than once, and there was no support. And now her kids are gone. And I, I don't know this woma- woman.

But what I do know is, like, as a, as a parent It's completely unnatural to want to murder your offspring. Like, that's not even how parents are built. Like, so, you know, thinking about are just supposed...

birthed their child. mean, in So this on you know?

Yeah. So I do think there's a societal expectation as a birthing parent, of course, like you're just gonna wanna take care of your kids and, you know, like, everyone's done it, so you'll be able to do it.

It's totally fine. But that's not how it goes for everyone. And I wanna say, you know, it's just, and, and it's not as easy as just like, "Well, I birthed this person, and so now everything's gonna be hunky-dory." You can't control, like, how your hormones respond to that [00:44:00] birth, how your brain responds to that birth, and to the lack thereof of support potentially.

So, and how you're having to literally work overtime, your body and your mind, in order to, like, keep somebody alive. So I'm just saying all that to say that, like, I fully understand, like, what you're saying about that essay, and there not being, A, enough support for women, but potentially enough grace. I still am not with that shit on Matipa because you can go find you a man, you can come back and take care of your kids.

But I do understand why she had to leave them to begin with, because you're a person first, and you've got to get your mind and body right before you can take care of other kids. I mean, that's part of the love and the sacrifice, you know, of being a parent is that if you, like, I'm, I'm not here mentally, I can't be here for you right now.

And you can't always control when that might come up,

Yeah

you know? But you can take control in that moment or at least [00:45:00] try. And in Matipa's situation it was, "I gotta get outta here." In Lindsay Clancy's situation, it sounded like she was trying to reach out to people, other people, to get the help that she needed.

But, you know. So yeah.

Yeah.

there's like

a way that I'm just like In a lot of the reading that I'm doing right now on mothering, there is a very big way that I'm like, this mothering is a labor. Like, it is labor and that is as important as any other or more important than any other labor that, you know, we pay people money and dollars and resources and benefits and PTO for, right?

And the way that that is not, um

not [00:46:00] reflected in society

in society, supported. Um, there's no infrastructure. I mean, even just as something as simple as, you know, leave, like parental you know,

Like people being like, "Oh, you're lucky that you get three months," right? Or four months. Like you should essentially be thanking God that your job would allow that and not two weeks or, you know, whatever

And still leaving your child at three, four months is... I mean, I know it's the norm here, but it's not the norm worldwide, you know? And it's And

it's not

the

norm. No, it's not. No

Um, and so yeah, I just, I've been thinking a lot about that piece, about how capitalism requires mothering to be free and exploited, like truly exploited. Um, and how even in these dire [00:47:00] situations, folks, we don't even have the infrastructure to be able to support mothers in that way, and so we fail them.

Mm-hmm.

Anyway,

Matipa

talking about Matipa had me think about that. No


The Bar is in Hell for Fathers
---

Martissa: I, I understand. That's a good point. Oh, Lord. And then that makes me think about how like... And don't get me wrong, right? 'Cause I'm not a father hater, obviously, and there are a lot of good dads out there, there's a lot of great dads. I'm married to one. But the way that men are praised by doing their fatherly job, like, and I mean fucking praised

And bare minimum. They get praised for doing the bare minimum

You know, it's so crazy. It's so insane. I remember Manny telling me, it's just when we were living in Tempe about, like, how he would get stopped regularly by, you know, dads or [00:48:00] non-dads, like grandpas and, like, you know, p- men hoping to be dads. Like, "Man, you know, we don't see a lot of fathers out here," you know, all this stuff.

So I guess for them it's, like, nice to see, but I'm like, do you know how many times a stranger has told me that I'm a good mom or a great mom? Not that I've ever even thought about it or expected none of that. I don't... It, it's irrelevant, right? But I'm just like, that shit does not happen

Yeah. Yeah

'cause they expect you to be out in the grocery store with your babies or wherever the fuck.

Don't give a fuck. Sometimes you even get crazy looks if you, if you're taking them certain places 'cause I'm taking my daughter to doctor's appointment with me. Like, wherever I need to go, like, she needs to go with me. There ain't nobody else, right? So it's like... And then it's like, oh, well, you know. Don't get me wrong, my doctors have been amazing, but there are just certain places sometimes where it's just like you can tell that the vibe is like, "Why is there a kid in this room?

How dare you not have a space for her that's not here with us?"

Right

Whole time Daddy gets, "Oh, do you need this and that?" And, "Oh my God, he's so amazing. You're the, he's amazing dad. Perfect dad." Like, you know what I [00:49:00] mean? And I'm just like, this is insane.

Yeah.

It's crazy as fuck

it's-- I mean, I think that there's a real way that, like, the cultural construction of mothering and fathering is vastly different. It's vastly you know? Like, the truth of the matter is fathering gets to be optional. Mothering never gets to be optional, even when mom is having psychosis or it, whatever the fuck, right?

Like, there is no such thing as mothering being an optional labor, while fathering does. So even if you take your kid out once a month to ice cream, you get a clap for it, and, like, you don't see them for the rest of the, the month, right? You know, like is, it's like any semblance, and God forbid you're an active participant in your child's life [00:50:00] Either way, fathering the bar is in hell because it's not required.

It's

I just wanna say

labor

in general, fucking the bar is in hell for men, and I think that's where it start- it just starts there, right? So, you know. But, but yes

Chanel: our society needs a huge, just What's the word? Restructuring is putting it lightly. Overhaul, that is the word I'm looking for, um, of values in general, because we don't really support mothers and families the way that we should.

Supporting men's egos and we've seen, you know, what that's done, so yeah. But

Martissa: grandpa.

Chanel: I know. Uncle Sam says that's too damn bad

Martissa: Right, exactly.


Mothering the Mother with Mama Shafia Monroe
---

Chanel: So with that, I do have a question for you before we hop off our cute little chitchat What's your favorite episode that we recorded so far?

Martissa: [00:51:00] My favorite episode that we recorded, this will be a little teaser to it because y'all have not heard it yet, I think at the time of this coming out. But we do an interview with Mama Shafi and Monroe, who wrote "Mothering the Mother," and I think it's gonna come out, like, in a couple weeks from when y'all are listening to this.

And, um, that epis- like that conversation, I have been thinking about points in that conversation since we had it. Like, I've literally... She dropped some gems in that episode that I'm like, "Put this everywhere. Everybody

needs to hear this

episode." Like, it was just, yeah, it was really so good. And like, even though, you know, her book is about postpartum, um, African American postpartum traditions, um, use this now to go ahead and go get that book and go ahead and start reading so then you have [00:52:00] prepared for the conversation with her.

Um, but that book is so good and nourishing as a, like, resource for us as Black folks, and specifically Black folks who are committed to birthing in whatever ways, personally to other people birthing, all of that, and to child-rearing. But I think for as there were so many cultural gems that she shared that I was like, "Fuck. I didn't think about it like that," or, "I didn't think about that," or, you know, how you put that was just different. Like I, I've never-- I will forever be thinking about the fact that she said we are, uh, far more assimilated than generations p- past. Like, I think about that maybe every other day at this

point

Chanel: Oh my goodness. Yeah. Yeah. [00:53:00] That was also my favorite. I know, I know.

Martissa: What was your like what was it about it for you?

Chanel: I think even prior to the episode, 'cause I had started, um, I, I was like half, like reading the book, but I... That week I had been working on trying to clarify what, what does my future look like with schooling? Um, what does the next step look like after I finish this section of schooling to be sure about what I wanna do and how I wanna serve, um, birthing people and be a part of the birthing community.

And it's still very much like ever-changing. Like this first step is, that's solid, but the next step is still iffy. But anyway, that's what I was working on. And as I'm like putting together things, I'm realizing how much this book is aligned with, and the work [00:54:00] that Mama Shafia has done and is doing is aligned with what my future looks like.

And I was just like, like in that moment, obviously I love Kinfolk and Script- Unscripted and, you know, the reason that we put this together is because we wanted to talk about these things. But it was in that moment that I knew this is what I was supposed to be doing.

Martissa: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Chanel: And it was, and it was because of I don't wanna say because of the book, 'cause I had not, like, fully read it, but it was just, like, all of it culminating together.

It was just, like, this very clear moment for me. So that was the, the energy that I had going into the conversation. So then getting to meet and talk with her, I feel like that kinda just put the cherry on top, and she just gave All of like Black auntie, Black grandmama-like vibes the whole time while being extremely knowledgeable about the birthing space, you [00:55:00] know?

And I love how calm and comfortable she was about it because there's so much like, there's so many alarming things that go around about birth. And there, yes, there are facts, you know, about some of these things, but it's like that cannot be the only story, and I just love that that's not what she harps on.

So, so yeah. And yeah, there... It's just... And for me, it's like the amount, you know, of things that just go ringing in my head from that conversation, especially that first week where I was just like thinking of random things she, she has said. Like her just literally putting out random recipes, just bam, just the, you know, bring a little neck bone in there, da da da da da.

I'm just like, you know what? You know you be really throwing down. Like, but it's just, that's just... I, I'm losing words, so I'm just like this is just what it... This is why I just love Black women. This is what it feels like to be a part of that community, you know? So yeah, I think it was all about the feels for me

Martissa: Yeah

I think there's [00:56:00] a way-- So I mentioned earlier, like the reading and the writing that I'm doing right now, and so much of it is really about ultimately like me getting clear about what kind of elder and what kind of ancestor I wanna be, and knowing that like that work happens now, you know? And so I think that there was a way that having that conversation with Mama Shafia, I was like, and I think I keep pronouncing her name wrong.

I think it's Mama Shafia

Chanel: Shit

Martissa: I know. 'Cause she kept pronouncing it and I was like, "I'm doing it wrong." I think it's Shafia. Um, either way, she's amazing. Um, but in that conversation with her, I, um, I was like, she's the kind of elder I wanna be. Like, she's really, like, she's an example of the kind of elder I wanna be.

And I think that there's this way [00:57:00] that I'm like, there's an embodiment of the knowledge, right? there's a unquestionable practice where it's like, yes. And like for me, where I'm at in my brain, I'm often thinking about like, what kind of villager do I wanna be? What kind of like, what kind of support person do I wanna be in my village?

And her knowledge, her experience, her energy, I was like, oh, like this is the vibe, right? Like, come stay at my house. Let me cook for you. I'm gonna be there when you birth. Like, I'm just, I'm gonna be like... And I think for me, it's, for me it's less about a career path and more about like, what are the skills that I wanna have so that I can be the person, you know?

That when the need comes up, I can be that for them, you know? Um, and I think that was [00:58:00] what I love. That was like a notch in this like ever-growing belt of resources and, um, expanders to that for me.

Chanel: Yeah

I think, yeah, I just think that that conversation, uh, was a core moment for both of us, you know, and, like, the path that we're trying to go. And I guess I just didn't really I didn't realize, like, how impactful it was going to be. So I'm thankful for that. And yeah

Martissa: Absolutely. Absolutely. So y'all have a treat coming up in that episode, and I'm super excited to hear what people think about that

Chanel: Yeah Well, all right, Kin, that's all we got for you on this lovely Friday. Please don't forget to subscribe and review the podcast on Apple or wherever you get your podcasts, and follow us on Instagram, YouTube, [00:59:00] and Substack at Kinfolk Unscripted. We'll see you in two weeks

Martissa: Bye, Kin

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