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S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl and crew.
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S2: Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems impossible and live as you never imagined.
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S1: Delivering the truth daily.
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S3: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available. And you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain that would make it worth it.
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S4: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from the life source, which is God.
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S5: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
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S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl and crew.
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S3: How well or how much do you trust what you can see?
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S5: Ooh, that's a good question. I think it depends on what I'm looking at.
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S3: You hear people say, well.
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S5: Yeah.
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S3: If I see it, I'll believe it. I'll believe it when I see it. True. Some people have a really refined palate, so they can tell if food is of good quality or not. Right.
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S5: See, my mind went to social media right away to it's like, oh, can you tell what you're looking at? And with the growth of AI, I don't.
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S3: Yeah, it's a good point. AI has made it much harder to.
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S5: Much, much.
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S3: Harder to see, particularly online. Yes. You know, it's interesting. We have these five senses and we've been talking about that already a little bit this morning. And we're going to have a great, great guest later on this hour. But I think there's a temptation to, for the most part, trust our senses, that our sight, if we can see it, if we can touch it, if we can taste it, if we can feel it, that there's this trust your gut, trust your experience kind of approach to going through life. And many people that their worldview is essentially based on that. Right. Kind of groping their way through the world, making sense of it as they can perceive it.
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S5: Those senses are their checklist.
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S3: Exactly. Coming up this hour, though, I think you're going to love this conversation. We've got a special guest who's going to be coming. Coming up. And he's going to talk about a passage of scripture that is really one of the most sensory rich in all of the Bible. And this was he introduced this to me. So I'm paraphrasing already some of what I know he's going to share, but it's where you see the senses all vividly on display, but for the most part, deceptively wrong.
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S5: What I saw his notes a little bit like it was like, wow, I never stopped to think about it that way.
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S3: And, you know, it's interesting because I there's a museum in Chicago called the Museum of Illusions. And I know and maybe there are other cities as well, but I took my kids there one time and it's, it's like being in a, like the Twilight Zone or something because.
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S5: Alice in Wonderland sort of thing. It's upside down and sideways, and.
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S3: Through the use of mirrors and angles, the. The size of things is distorted.
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S5: Very much so. The flooring and everything else, how they work it and do it in the furniture. Absolutely.
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S3: Yeah. The one room that's pretty popular is the kind of the upside down room. Yes. Which for pictures is a pretty cool looking thing because all of the things that should be on the floor or on the ceiling. Correct. And so what you can do is you can kind of position yourself to where, when you take the picture, you can spin it around and you can make it look like you're kind of like hanging from the ceiling, doing handstands, hanging off of the wall at odd angles, because the placement of everything is deceptive to the eye, and it makes for cool pictures.
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S5: A lot of fun. Yeah, admittedly.
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S3: We have one where I'm kind of hanging off of a bus stop and holding on to the side of a pole, and my daughter is kind of doing a hand. It just looks it looks crazy. And you go, what is going on in this picture? Or another one where the way the there's position, you can stand in two different places to where it looks like two people who are about the same size. One of them looks like a giant.
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S5: And other tiny tiny.
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S3: The other person looks like miniature. And it's all it's all crafted illusion. Trick your eye a little bit. I'll be honest, after about 20 minutes, I was like, I have to get out of here because it was so messing with my senses. I was feeling a little dizzy.
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S5: I have heard people have done that or came out, came out rather with a little a little bit of a headache. It was fun, but.
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S3: A little dizzy.
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S5: Too much.
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S3: A little nauseating. And I was like, guys, I'm sorry, I think I think I got a I gotta bail on this.
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S5: I'm tapping out here.
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S3: Messing with your senses kind of messes. With everything coming up, though, we're going to welcome Doctor Jim Coakley. When can you trust your senses and when should you not? We'll talk about it.
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S1: He was running from God, but God's love brought him home. Carl is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
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S3: Well, as promised, we're going to take you to one of the most sensory rich chapters, really, in all of Scripture. Doctor Jim Coakley is joining us to help break this down. We see an aging Isaac whose eyes were dim so he could not see, which is Genesis 271. Tell us a little bit first about what is happening in this passage. Where do we land in the narrative here?
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S6: Yeah. So we're of course, Isaac feels that he is actually near the end of his life because he wants to confer the blessing on Esau. And again, that's going to be the tension in the story. But he lives for another 43 years, according to our calculations. So he's already already sensing that he's not getting all the right signals. Correct. But he's now going to be passing on the blessing to he thinks is going to be Esau. And that's the whole deception story. Rebecca, uh, Jacob's mom gets in on the action. Here's the plan. Uh, hatches this thing to make Jacob look and hear and feel like, uh, like his brother. And of course, that the ruse works. Uh. And so then Esau comes back at the end and figures out he's been conned again by his brother, and he's really mad. So that's kind of the backdrop behind what's going on here in Genesis 27.
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S3: And of course, we have the patriarchs of the faith, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. But Esau was the first born. Therefore should, in terms of the cultural norms, should have been the one to receive the blessing.
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S6: And this is what's a little strange about this passage, because Rebecca received an oracle directly from God when she got pregnant. Uh, the Lord directly came to her and said, there's two nations in your womb. And it says, the younger you know, the elder shall serve the younger. Now, what we don't know is, did she keep that to herself or did she share that with with her. With her husband Isaac. Because if Isaac is wanting to bless Esau, knowing about that oracle, then his. He's really messed up. I mean, this is a dysfunctional family. There's favoritism going on. One parent likes one son, one son, and the other likes the other. So this is a dysfunctional family, but it's really hard to sort out all the messiness that's going on here. But this is, at the end of the day, God superintends it to accomplish what he wants. But in the in the thick of things, things are really, really dysfunctional here.
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S3: So what do we know to be true about Isaac? I mean, we see that he's aging and that his sight is dimming. His intentions here are to bless Esau good intentions, or is it hard for us to say, well.
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S7: It's hard for us to say, because already we.
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S6: Sense in the text that Isaac, as he's aging. And again, I'm getting up there in years. Uh, and, you know, the idea is, is that we already see the seeds of where Isaac is going as he's aging? Because earlier in chapter 25, it says, oh, he loves Tasty game. Uh, so already we have, you know, he's got a hankering for whatever, uh, prey Esau is able to bring back and cook up, uh, you know, and eat. And so he's already got that taste sensory thing, really primary. We don't really hear about his spiritual vitality. Uh, it's really more this five senses that are really, really heightened in this passage. And that's what really makes this a very unique text in the Bible.
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S3: Okay, so let's start to talk about where we see the senses pop up here. And they all five senses make a pretty prominent appearance. So we already know that his sight is dimming. So he knows that he can't trust his sight.
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S6: Right? And that really sets up everything else. Because if he's not blind, I don't think the deception, of course, can't work at all. So with that spiritual, I think this is again, kind of that physical sight is diminished. But I think it's also letting us know that his spiritual senses are also diminishing. So it starts with his blindness that his eyes are dim. But what's interesting, of course, Moses at the end of Deuteronomy says his eyes were not dim. And so we know there's a contrast between Moses, whose eyes were not dim when he died and Isaac here. And so that's it. And then taste. We already talked about that. It says that, oh, man, go out and get some tasty game. I want to taste that in my mouth. It's really kind of a weird expression in the Hebrew game in my mouth. So he just lives for those kind of senses. And then, of course, when the ruse is being played out, he says, well, can I come near and let me touch you so that the touching is happening? And of course, they really put animal skins. And again, you have to wonder how hairy was Esau for goat skins to be the the thing. Oh yeah, that's my son Esau. It's like, oh no, there's people. I mean, my father in law is now with the Lord, but he had a hairy back whenever I saw it. But this that would not at all cover what I think. Esau, he had a full, full fur. Yeah. Basically, I think he had.
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S3: Yes. If the animal skin felt like him, if that was what was used as part of the deception.
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S6: And I think that's why he was effective Hunter because he was red and hairy and he could go out. He looked just like the animals he was hunting. But that's a whole nother discussion. Uh, but then what's interesting is the one sense that normally goes first as we age. I just got hearing aids this summer, but hearing is the one sense that Isaac seems to have still going good. Uh, because he says, hey, it's the voice of Jacob. But you're saying that it's Esau. And so it's weird that his hearing is the one that seems to be the one that is still functioning quite well, but that's the one he gets, gives him the best data, but he still blows past it with all the other four senses. And then, of course, the smell. He says, come near. Oh, and he sniffs. Uh, Jacob, of course, who's pretending to be his brother Esau. And he says, oh, the smell of the field. I said, oh my goodness, that's not a Cologne. I think I would want to to mark it. But Isaac seemed to love that. And so but all of these five senses are mentioned here. But it all starts, I think the kind of downward spiral really starts because his his physical sight is again signaling that his his spiritual senses are diminished as well.
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S3: Coming up, we're going to have more with Doctor Jim Coakley as we break down this passage and the takeaways for us. What does this mean? Should you not trust what you see? I mean, we're tempted to see and taste and touch and smell. And that's kind of primarily what drives us through our life, through our decisions. What should we trust instead? Coming up.
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S1: Take your next step with Jesus today. You're listening to cast and crew.
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S3: How easy is it to be deceived by your senses? You think you can trust what you see or what you touch or what you taste? We see in Genesis 27 that Isaac, his intention was to bless his son Esau. He says, May I may bless you before I die. Well, then there's this great deception where instead of blessing Esau, Jacob kind of sneaks in with the assist by his mother, Rebecca, who is the one kind of who facilitates all of this. And because he can deceive his father, the taste, the touch, the smell, all of it sounds like or seems to be Esau, but it's Jacob. And so Isaac is deceived by his senses. Yes. Talk about some of the takeaways here. What should we see in this passage that we can apply?
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S6: I mean, we kind of operate in the physical world. And so we do operate by our senses, and God gave them our senses. And so they're all good. But we can put too much weight on individual senses and not on really the idea that we need to be walking by faith, not by sight. And so that notion is, is that even though we have these God given, you know, senses, uh, and we can utilize them, but we are not to supplant God's word with them. I mean, I love Romans chapter ten. It says, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. And so here we know one of the senses hearing. Uh, and so as we hear the Word of God, and of course, that carries the notion of obedience as well. It's not just listening to it, but it's listening and responding to it appropriately. And so, you know, we are to listen to the Word of God, and that's walk by faith, not by sight. So all these things are there. And so we have to be careful because sometimes the senses give us data that we can misinterpret. And I think this is where this passage is full of so many blown signals. I mean, the hearing should have alerted, you know, Isaac, that something was going on here. And we get a sense that he knows that, but he blows past that. And that's the thing is we have to be aware, and we have to be kind of humble to realize that our senses can deceive us.
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S3: Which sense do you think we're most likely to be deceived by?
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S6: Oh, boy. That's hard. I mean, we wouldn't normally think of, like, smell, uh, or something else. I mean, certainly, I think the visualization today we think about AI generated kind of things and it's like, man, you can hardly tell the fake from the real. It's getting very, very blurred between that reality. So I think in our day, especially sight, I think is probably one that's easily that's easily deceived because of especially in our day.
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S3: And you think even like when you. The circumstances. Sometimes you. Some. Some situation can seem so appealing. It looks like a great option. Let's say you're presented with a job opportunity and boy, this looks really good to my eyes.
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S6: Or we judge, you know, we can't judge a book by its cover. And so we make assumptions about people that we meet that may not be appropriate. I mean, we have that plenty. What's interesting, too, is that a lot of these senses are also at the beginning of the book of Samuel. Uh, you know, when again Eli again, he's he's got, uh, problems as he's aging with his senses. And again Samuel hears the voice of God. And so again, these, these texts are very, very important to kind of rein in our senses so that we understand that. No, it's it's by the word of God was rare in Samuel's day. So we need the Word of God. That's going to be the helpful guide that's going to help us to make sure that we don't use our senses to override our faith.
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S3: Yeah. And then to taste like the appetites, as you mentioned, how Isaac. They meant it's recorded of how he loved Tasty Game. And so he wants his son to go prepare something that's going to taste good to his palate. So he was a man driven by appetites.
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S6: Yes. And this is what is concerning to me as I'm getting into that senior status kind of level of life. I've seen so many people around me where they just focus on the senses. They want comfort, they want air conditioned, this and that, or they want better food. I was just commenting about yesterday. We had a faculty institute and we had Lou Malnati's Pizza for one, a celebration for George Mosher, our registrar here. And my wife was at home and she said, oh, I'm looking forward to having, you know, generic brand pizza from Jewel. And I was.
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S3: Like.
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S6: Oh man, it's like I'm eating one of the best Chicago pizza pies. And she's happy with generic pizza. Yeah. And it's like, I can see I just came back from Maine. I mean, I can taste the seafood still in my mouth from all of that because I can't afford it when it's when I'm here. But there, you can get it cheap and you can enjoy it. But I'm thinking, okay, is that what I want to live for? Do I want to live for my senses, my taste, my touch? I want to have the best, you know, AirPods. I want to have the best game or food on my table. I want to have the best, uh, you know, air conditioning level in my home. AM I all about patting my body or my really living by faith? And this is an application for my heart, certainly.
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S3: No, I mean, it really is because the weekend, the thing we trust is the word of God. Yes. Right. Even when it feels like it contradicts what we can see primarily.
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S6: Or we think we've done it all and we can coast, uh, and we can just kind of mail it in, so to speak, spiritually. No, you got to run towards the finish line.
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S3: You'll find this story in Genesis 27. Look for the five senses as you read. Great opportunity for you to do a devotional today. Thank you to Doctor Jim Coakley, our special guest this morning for coming up here on Carl and Crew.
00:17:30
S1: You're listening to Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
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S8: Do you like the smell of gasoline? No. Some people like it.
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S5: They do.
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S3: Some people really enjoy the smell of gasoline. I don't. I find it to be kind of sickening.
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S5: Some enjoy, you know, freshly mowed grass.
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S3: Yeah, that's another.
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S5: One right into my sinuses. And I'm like, I can't do that.
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S3: See, I kind of like the smell of freshly cut grass. That one's that's kind of nostalgic for me.
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S5: See, now for me, it's chlorine. Chlorine. I love the smell of chlorine.
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S8: Really?
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S5: Yeah.
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S3: Because it takes you back to your pool days.
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S5: It can. Or just. I'm trying. I smell a pool. Move. Get out of my way! I smell a pool. Yeah. The chlorine. Yeah, that's one of mine. I do like that.
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S3: There are certain smells that are universally, I think, appreciated. So the smell of chocolate chip cookies baking.
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S5: Oh, come on now.
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S3: I mean, even if you don't like to eat chocolate chip cookies, you walk into a home and there's anything baking, any sweet baking, and it's, it fills the home and it smells really good. I think most people like the smell of fresh flowers. Like if you were to go and take a sniff of a lilac.
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S5: Yes, yes.
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S3: It gives off very pleasing aroma to most people. But then when you talk about things like gasoline or grass or some people like the smell of like barn horse smell like, okay, people who work.
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S5: Enjoy the country. Yeah, yeah, that country.
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S3: Smell is maybe nostalgic to you, whereas others find it manure like. Sure. What else? Mothballs.
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S5: Mothballs. That's a different one. Absolutely. Pine. Things like that of the forest. People enjoy that sort of smell. Um, I like the smell of, like, backstage, like an old stage because you've got the wooden floors and all that that's going on. I mean, granted, there's a lot of dust in backstage, but that kind of archaic vintage smell is kind of cool.
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S3: Old. The old smell?
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S5: Yeah, absolutely.
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S3: What about what about smelling like. Like when you smell like dogs? Like there's a dog here. Does that smell off putting to you or does that?
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S5: No, because I love pets. So I mean, unless the dog really found, you know, something to roll in. I use quotation marks like Carl says, the quotation marks rolling. Um, but other than that, no, it's like, give me a pet for sure. For sure.
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S3: So we tend to be divided about certain smells and while and certain other smells unite us. You may see where I'm going with this. Coming up. We're going to talk about fragrance and aroma and where we see smell used in Scripture. When you start looking for all of these, as we march through this week all over the Word of God, but today, smell. What is the best smell that you can think of? I want you to text me on this. What is the thing that smells great to you universally. Maybe it's something that everyone appreciates. Maybe it's a certain Cologne or perfume. Maybe it's the smell of laundry. That's one of my favorites.
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S5: Oh, that is.
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S3: I love I really like when I'm taking a walk and I can I can smell like the laundry vent. Someone's just put in a load of laundry and they've used the dryer sheets.
00:20:39
S5: Got it.
00:20:40
S3: That is a really good smell to me. What do you say? What is your favorite smell? I know, kind of a strange question, but I promise I'm going somewhere. Text us (800) 555-7898. Best smell, hands down. Tell us what you think it is. (800) 555-7898, send us a text.
00:20:59
S1: He's a sports fanatic with a stat for anything you can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's curl and crew on Moody radio.
00:21:09
S3: We're talking about the five senses this week. And today I want to talk about fragrances. About scents. What are those scents? Those smells that you feel really positively. Maybe it's chocolate baked, fresh baked cookies or. I love the new baby smell.
00:21:26
S5: Oh, come on now. I mean.
00:21:28
S8: Oh my.
00:21:29
S3: Goodness.
00:21:29
S5: That's not a.
00:21:30
S3: New baby smell. Let me go through some of what you texted. 2276 A newborn baby. Absolutely. 8546 bread baking in the oven.
00:21:40
S5: Yes.
00:21:41
S3: How about the salty air? Right when you get to the shore? Oh, yes. Yeah. That is a great, great smell.
00:21:47
S5: Very good.
00:21:47
S3: One. The smell of freshly turned dirt by the farmers in the spring. It reminds me that God is starting a new life. Growing. Oh, okay.
00:21:56
S5: Okay. Yeah. And gardeners. I could see that for sure.
00:21:59
S3: Lake water. The smell of fresh cherry pie.
00:22:03
S5: Oh, there we go.
00:22:05
S3: This person, 72, 94, loves the smell of new carpet. 7715. Another vote for the salty air of the ocean. 8360. Fresh Brewed coffee. 0041. Chocolate or lilacs. The smell of fresh cut grass. 1734 A charred hot dog is a really good smell. 5920 garlic, onions and peppers. You know, I, I have a Haitian mother in law, and everything she cooks starts with a blend of garlic, pepper and onion. So, so good. It does, because I know something good is.
00:22:40
S8: Coming, right?
00:22:42
S3: Homegrown roses. Let's see another vote for freshly baked bread cleaning supplies 0661. Then. I know the bathroom is clean. Newborn baby crisp autumn morning.
00:22:56
S5: Oh, thumbs up for sure. Yes.
00:22:59
S3: How about. Yeah, that smell after rain? Yes, that's a good smell.
00:23:03
S5: Another good one.
00:23:04
S3: Coffee or bacon? Fresh mowed alfalfa field. I don't think I know.
00:23:10
S5: I don't know what that.
00:23:10
S3: Smells like. A new box of crayons.
00:23:14
S5: Oh, like school to like, you know, new book.
00:23:17
S3: There is a smell in the classroom when all the supplies are still fresh. Just broken out. Baby power powder, fresh asphalt, permanent marker highlighter. I think we're getting to some of those that might divide campfire.
00:23:34
S5: That's another one. Yeah.
00:23:35
S3: That's true. Cinnamon. When we think of all these different smells, do you know that as Christ followers we have a certain aroma, certain fragrance? Here is the hard part though. It is going to be a dividing fragrance. It's going to be a lot more like gasoline or barn smell to some people than chocolate chip cookies or baby powder. I'll explain. Coming up.
00:24:03
S1: He was sharing the gospel on the radio and then he got saved. Young thunders in the crew. It's Colin Crew on Moody Radio.
00:24:12
S3: I'm gonna take you to a passage of scripture that I had to wrestle with a little bit, because even though I've heard it read it many times, I don't think I had grasped fully what it meant when I started to see it. I wasn't sure how I felt about it. Let me read you the passage of Scripture. This is Second Corinthians 214 through 17. I'm going to first read it in the ESV or the English Standard Version. That's primarily what I read for my own personal study, but then I'm going to read it to you in the New Living Translation, because I think it makes it a little bit clearer. First up, ESV. But thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession, and through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere. For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. That second Corinthians 214 and 15. Then you got to go on to verse 16 to 1, a fragrance from death to to death to the other, a fragrance from life to life. Who is sufficient for such things? For we are not like so many peddlers of God's word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God in the sight of God, we speak in Christ. Okay, that's a lot. I want to focus on this one verse. I'm sure you've heard that it's said that we are the aroma of Christ. Have you heard that before?
00:25:35
S5: Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:36
S3: And so as soon as I thought about the five senses this week, this is where my mind went for smell for sure. And so I think what I had missed in this passage, the aroma of Christ, the fragrance we are supposed to be, the fragrance of Christ to the world. I had a kind of sanitized view of that, of what that really meant though. So I didn't realize that the fragrance of Christ is, to many people, the smell of death.
00:26:05
S5: Are all right.
00:26:07
S3: And that was a tough one. So the word aroma here is the same word used in Greek Old Testament to describe the scent of a sacrifice pleasing to God. I'll take you to Genesis eight. Describes Noah building an altar. Noah built an altar to the Lord and took some of every clean animal and some of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. And when the Lord smelled the pleasing aroma, the Lord said in his heart, I will never again curse the ground because of man. And then it goes on. But I'll stop there. So this aroma, us being the fragrance of the knowledge of him, he uses us to spread the fragrance of him. The aroma of Christ for many people is the smell of death. You cannot separate the aroma of Christ from the cross of Christ.
00:26:54
S5: And how many of us want to be chocolate chip cookies? Yes, and conform to the chocolate chip cookies instead of going, you know what? Maybe to you I might be a little rank, but to me it's the sweet smell of Christ within me.
00:27:09
S3: Exactly. You nailed it. I think we want to smell like chocolate chip cookies. We want an aroma that will be pleasing to everyone. I'm going to read this passage to you again in the New Living Translation. Um, just the first couple verses. But thank God he has made us his captives and continues to lead us along in Christ's triumphal procession. Procession. Rather. Now he uses us to spread the knowledge of Christ everywhere like a sweet perfume. Keep going. Though our lives are a Christ like fragrance rising up to God. But this fragrance is perceived differently by those who are being saved and by those who are perishing. To those who are perishing. We are a dreadful smell of death and doom. But to those who are being saved, we are a life giving perfume. And who is adequate for such a task as this? So to some, the fragrance of Christ, the cross of Christ, the death, the sacrifice that was offered once for all. Some people can't get past the smell of death.
00:28:11
S5: They can't know.
00:28:13
S3: Smelling a burnt sacrifice. Why was a burnt sacrifice a pleasing aroma to God? Why did the smell of the burning flesh of animals? Why was that pleasing to God? Because it represents life, right? It represents his ability to to be near to his people, for them to draw near to him. I was reading an article about this passage of Scripture, and I want to read you a quote from John Piper who is desiring God. Great, great resource. He says, some people smell the sacrificial love of Christ in the life of a missionary, and it only smells like death. They hear the gospel and all they hear is death. They look at the cross. All they see is death. They see no life, no hope, no future, no joy. And so they turn away. And if they turn away forever, they die. They are perishing. The smell of death leads to death. Now for the Christ follower, the smell of death leads to life, right? We understand that. But for the cross of Christ, there is no life. No.
00:29:17
S5: It can't be.
00:29:18
S3: And so Paul, in writing this letter to the Corinthians, he talks a lot about the kind of the anguish that he had gone through. He had great concern over issues that were going on in the church. He mentions his concern for Titus. He's dealing with a lot of anxiety. He also we know if we read other parts of Scripture that he has suffered much. He's gone through shipwreck and he's been stoned. He's faced danger on all sides. He's seen many a sleepless nights. He's gone without food. He's been subject to cold and to exposure to the elements and then the daily pressure, he says on me of my anxiety for all the churches to look at the life of Paul, not everybody would say that's a victorious chocolate chip, cookie smelling life. Many people would look at that and they see the smell of suffering and death, and they're turned off by it.
00:30:12
S5: Very much so. And smell, too. Like it opens up the door of understanding what what the reality of something is. It's like you smell it even before you maybe even come into a room. So it's the same with us. If we are really smelling like Christ, if Christ is within us, that smell permeates how we love each other, how we respect each other, how we talk to each other. But again, even before even words come out, it's our actions and everything. That smell is already showing through it. And the glorious part, some of that is for some, yes, it is that smell of death, but for some others it does become a smell that's. I'm intrigued. I want to know more about that smell.
00:30:55
S3: And so the thing that I had to wrestle with, and I hope that this comes across in the way that I'm intending. I pray that it does. Is that are we willing to really be the aroma of Christ? Yeah. Because it's tempting to want to make it more palatable, make the gospel a little bit more palatable, to emphasize parts and not the other to kind of shrink back from truth. Because if we're going to be the aroma of Christ, it's a smell that divides the world. That's what John Piper said. I'm quoting him directly. It divides the world. So if we try to have an aroma that's pleasing to everyone, then we are not truly representing Christ.
00:31:34
S5: No, we are not.
00:31:34
S3: We're not the aroma of Christ when we are pleasing to everybody, the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere, the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. We have to remember that to some people it's going to be the fragrance of death. We don't have to try to mask it, dress it up. We live boldly for Christ and trust that there are people who will see and smell life.
00:31:59
S1: He was sharing the gospel on the radio and then he got saved. Young thunders in the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
00:32:09
S3: Well, if you have a teenager, you know teenagers are. Teenage boys can have a lot of quirks. One of them is, you know, saying, do I really need to shower again? Or I can totally wear this shirt again. See, mom, it smells just fine. Yeah, smell it.
00:32:27
S5: Here. Smell this smell. Where do you.
00:32:29
S3: Like? If you have to do a smell check on your shirt.
00:32:33
S5: Thank you honey.
00:32:34
S3: But as we talk about being the aroma of Christ. Maybe this sounds kind of crazy and gross, but I think it's okay to do a little bit of a smell check on our on our own lives and go, am I, am I the aroma of Christ in the way that I am? By God's grace, he can help me to be bold enough to where I don't shrink back. And I don't try to make myself pleasing to everyone because that's a tough thing if you have people pleasing tendencies, and if you don't really want to rock the boat, then it's going to be hard for people who are wired like me, I get it, I'm right there with you, but let's do a smell check today. Let's ask the Lord to help us. We if we want to be the aroma of Christ. Why? Because that spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere, right? That's it. That's how more people come to know him because that aroma is pleasing.
00:33:21
S1: Want to hear that again? Just download the Curl and Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
00:33:27
S3: Well, coming up, whether it's a beautiful painting or a music that captures your heart, literature, arts, the arts have the power to do something really special. Coming up, we've got an author. He is a creative. He's the first one to admit it. He says, you can discover God through the arts. He's written a book about it. How we can grow Closer to God by appreciating beauty and creativity. That's coming up.
00:33:52
S1: Walking closer to Jesus every day. You're listening to Carl and crew.
00:33:57
S3: Well, if you were to look into my home right now, there is a spot on the wall right as you walk in that is begging for a piece of art. I have taped off the dimensions of what I want. It's a big, big point of emphasis on the wall. But it's now been five years and I have not found the perfect piece of art. Why? Because I don't want to just put anything up there. I don't want to put up a piece of art that doesn't have a story. I don't want to just put color on a canvas to make the decor look better. I've been looking for something that to me, captures the beauty that God's created or speaks to me in some way. We can discover God through the arts. Our guest this morning, author Terry Glaspy. I'm excited about this conversation. Maybe it will help me fill that blank space on my wall. He's written this book, Discovering God Through the Arts. Are you an art lover or a creative yourself, Terry? Give me a little bit of your own story.
00:34:56
S9: Yeah, well, I'm very much an art lover. The arts in general, whether it be painting or music or literature or film or whatever. They've created some of my most intimate moments with God. Some of those have occurred viewing a painting or watching a movie or reading a book. I think it's one way that God really connects with us. I love it. It touches my soul. The best of it also, I think, helps me on my pathway to becoming a better human being, the kind God wants me to be. I dabble a little bit in painting. I wouldn't say I'm very good at it. Writing is probably my primary creative outlet, but I think we're all creative.
00:35:42
S3: I love that, and I love that you gave us a broader picture of the arts, because certainly we've all experienced the wonder of music and the beauty of great literature. You read. Sometimes you read words on a page, and the beauty of a well crafted sentence. As a former journalist, this this one I feel for sure. It paints a picture. It tells a story in such a way that you are moved. So tell me a little bit more about how you've seen the arts assist in your own prayer life, in your own devotional life, and connecting with God?
00:36:14
S9: Yeah, well, I think that I mean, there's so many ways things I could take on this because it's something I've thought a lot about and written about. But, you know, one is that the arts can really help the Bible come alive for us. You know, we read the words on the page and we're moved by them, but sometimes seeing them or hearing them through the eyes of a painter or a musician or a filmmaker adds a adds another perspective, another window into how God has worked in the past and how he can work in our lives today. And I think that my prayer life has also been enriched. Um, oftentimes through, uh, really good poetry. I love the poet T.S. Eliot and his very deeply faith centered poem talks of poems called the Four Quartets. Sometimes I will grab my little book of the Four Quartets and go somewhere and sit under a tree in the shade and just read it slowly, and then kind of pray it back what I'm feeling and experiencing. So, and there's just so many examples I could give of ways in which God has really enriched my life through the work of artists.
00:37:34
S3: We've got Terry Glaspie with us this morning. He's written over a dozen books, including Discovering God Through the Arts. One of the things you tackle in this book is how arts help us build empathy and to deal with emotion. Speak to that a little bit.
00:37:48
S9: I think one of the most powerful things that the arts can do is to help us build empathy. I mean, we we live so easily just in the own little shell of our own life and our connections with people around us and what's familiar to us. And we can get overly comfortable there and we can lose sight of what it means when Jesus said, we need to love God, and then we need to love our neighbor. Well, reading especially and films probably would be my second one in which I'd say this although all art forms can do this, take me deeply into other people's lives and help me to see what life feels like and looks like from their perspective, which hopefully will make me somewhat wiser, but even more so will make me more compassionate because I'll feel what it. What it's like to walk in their shoes for a for a short period of time and to experience life the way they are living it. And I, I really think that empathy in particular, is one of the most powerful tools for just growing into being the kind of person that God wants, wants me to be. I'm a big, big believer in that, the idea of vicarious experience. And then there's also the fact that sometimes the arts can challenge us. I think about the story of the prophet Nathan coming to David, telling him a story about a man who had a very rich man who had stolen the sheep of a poor man. And and David becomes incensed by this story, and he says, we need to do something about this. Who is this person? And David turns to him and says, you are the man.
00:39:34
S10: Yeah.
00:39:35
S9: And I think there's something about the arts that can also challenge us that it can be a window in helping us see our own faults, our own weaknesses, the places where we struggle. And they remind us that we're not alone in those struggles, which we can sometimes begin to feel. And that's one thing I love about reading a really good novel, is it'll take me inside the life of a character who I recognize myself, elements of myself in that character, and it challenges me to want to grow and become a better person.
00:40:12
S3: Terry Glaspy with us. One of the other books that you've written that the title is intriguing to me. 75 Masterpieces Every Christian Should Know. Can you identify one? Maybe one of your favorites, a masterpiece, a work of art, or an artist who has a story that points to the gospel or displays the gospel in some way? Which one stands out to you?
00:40:34
S9: Well, that's a little bit like asking somebody which of their children is their favorite.
00:40:39
S10: Okay, fair.
00:40:41
S9: But actually there are several, um, that are particularly moving for me. And one I was thinking about recently is the painting by the painter Caravaggio called The Incredulity of Saint Thomas. This is a Bible centered painting that tells the story of when Jesus appears to the disciples in the upper room. And Thomas had missed him the first time, and the others had said, Jesus is risen. And he said, I. I won't believe that unless I can put my hand into his wound. And that is exactly what we see in this powerful, powerful painting that Jesus has taken the hand of Thomas and has gently guided it. He's kind of pulled his robe aside and gently guided his fingers into the wound. And there's something about that that I find really powerful in that it it speaks of the reality of the resurrection. This was not just a ghostly apparition of Jesus. This was the Jesus who is resurrected. And that's the promise for us today that we to death will not be the last word for us. And you know, it's interesting that Caravaggio himself was a man who struggled with sin and temptation all of his life. He was kind of hot tempered. And he would get into he got into a sword fight that got him into trouble and he had to flee Rome. He was totally human. And yet God was able to use the giftings that God had given him to paint one miraculous painting after another. And so many of his paintings are about biblical moments.
00:42:34
S3: I love it. Terry Glaspy it's been a joy this morning. I want you to text the word art if you want more on some of the resources we discussed, just text art to 805 557898, text art to 805 557898.
00:42:51
S1: Celebrating the Unstoppable gospel.
00:42:54
S4: It's not that I've got to fill in these check boxes, so he's okay with me, but it's that I get to stand close to him so that I can experience the life that he has for me.
00:43:03
S1: You're listening to Cast and Crew.
00:43:05
S3: Well, I put out this question. We have actually a member of our Moody radio team who's in studio with us this morning. And he said, I got I actually have an answer to this one. So Merle, who is joining us this morning. So how does this question hit you? How how have the arts helped you to connect with God?
00:43:22
S11: Well, it's affected me in a huge way, in two ways. I'm an art institute student, and that's where I met my wife.
00:43:30
S3: An art institute student.
00:43:32
S11: Or a former student. Sorry. Alumni from the Art Institute. So that's where I met my wife. So that's on one level that God in the arts brought me to my wife. And then just God being the ultimate creator, that's just us being like him. Yeah. And so that's how I connect with God through art and, and we're being like our father in heaven. We're just creating on a much smaller level with music, writing, painting, drawing. I love what you do here, speaking just everything. So as he is in everything, we represent that as well in what we do and create.
00:44:15
S3: Now, what kind of art do you do?
00:44:17
S11: Primarily painting and drawing. So oil painting I'm. I lean more towards being an impressionist. The. What was mentioned earlier. Caravaggio. Oh, okay. Yeah.
00:44:31
S3: The painting?
00:44:32
S11: Yeah. The artist. I'm a big fan. So some of my style of painting goes that direction and Monet ish. So really a painter and draw some film and video. So at the Art Institute, I was doing everything. I was video, film, photography, painting, drawing.
00:44:54
S3: I didn't know this about you.
00:44:56
S11: Yeah, this is really cool.
00:44:58
S3: And then music too. So as you're creating something, how, how would you describe like the feeling of the connection with God even as part of the creative process? What does that feel like for you?
00:45:10
S11: Most times for me, I don't believe it's me. I believe it's something that we all can tap into. That's, uh, God sent. So I think there's some things that aren't and we can clearly see that. But what's interesting to me is we're someone who is not even a believer, is still doing something that God does, and they don't even realize it. And that's creating that's a God thing whether you believe or not. So that's one way we can even get closer to him to really understand how he thinks. Because how we think in creating is this same way that he created us.
00:45:53
S3: As image bearers. Yeah.
00:45:54
S11: Yeah.
00:45:55
S3: Oh that's awesome. That's Merle, who's a part of the Moody radio team here who's in studio. Heard the question and awesome. I'm glad we brought you on, Mike.
00:46:04
S1: Tune in whenever you like. Check out the Carl and Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
00:46:10
S3: Well, you are officially introducing me to sense that either I didn't know even existed or hadn't even ever considered. But how about this one? Someone texted the smell of the water when you first turn on a garden hose. 100% took me there. There was a memory blast when you turn on the hose, and I don't even know how to describe what the smell is.
00:46:35
S5: You can't know.
00:46:36
S3: But a hot summer day, that hose comes on. There is a smell when that water first comes out. What about grilled liver and onions? Someone said that reminds them of their dad. The smell of bacon. Yeah. I'm with you on that. The pages of a new book? Yes. Or how about the pages of an older book? There's some nostalgia there, too.
00:46:57
S5: There is a lot of.
00:46:58
S3: Smell of the woods. Smell of shampoo.
00:47:00
S5: Oh, yes.
00:47:01
S3: Yeah, some shampoos really smell great. And freshly washed hair.
00:47:05
S5: Oh, definitely. Definitely. And there's woods. I love that one. Now bleach. That's different.
00:47:10
S3: That's kind of in the chlorine.
00:47:12
S5: Chlorine. Yes. Oh see they did include chlorine.
00:47:15
S3: There you.
00:47:15
S5: Go. Thank you.
00:47:16
S3: The thing about smells is it does tend to be pretty personal. Right. That you can have a Cologne or a perfume that you absolutely love and somebody else hates it, right?
00:47:30
S5: Yeah.
00:47:30
S3: I mean, oh, and vice versa. You can hate a smell of something that to somebody else is, is just so pleasant. I want to take you to second Corinthians 214 through 17 and talk about what it is to be the aroma of Christ, to be the fragrance of him to the world. Let's start with verse 14. It says, but thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession, and through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere. For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. Verse 16, though, is where this starts to turn to one a fragrance from death to death to the other, a fragrance from life to life. Who is sufficient for these things? For we are not like so many peddlers of God's word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God in the sight of God. We speak in Christ. Want to go back to verse 15, for we are the aroma of Christ to God. I had heard this read this many, many times, but I think for some reason I missed the back half of this. The aroma of Christ. I think we want it to be chocolate chip cookies.
00:48:48
S5: Oh. Hands down. Exactly. That's what we want to be. Baked bread people pleasers. We want to be chocolate chip cookies.
00:48:53
S3: We want to smell really good. Oh, here's the thing about being the aroma of Christ, though, that you cannot miss when you look at this passage is verse 16 to 1, a fragrance from death to death to the other, a fragrance from life to life, the aroma of Christ, the scent of a Christian, is going to divide. It is not going to be a pleasing smell to everyone. And I did some digging on this because honestly, I wrestled a little bit. Like I always thought of this as more like the chocolate chip cookies like, and there's an aspect of that, that our good works are the things that we do to point people to Christ.
00:49:33
S5: And why wouldn't everybody love.
00:49:34
S3: It is very there's a winsome aspect to it, but the aroma of Christ. You cannot separate from the cross, the death of Christ. This word aroma is the same word that's used in the Greek in the Old Testament to describe the scent of a sacrifice that's pleasing to God. You go to Genesis eight. I'll just read a couple verses that Noah built an altar to the Lord and took some of every clean animal and some of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. And when the Lord smelled the pleasing aroma, the Lord said in his heart, I will never again curse the ground because of man, the pleasing aroma of the burning flesh of an animal. Huh? Right.
00:50:18
S5: I know, it makes you scratch your head a little bit. I know.
00:50:20
S3: But that was a pleasing aroma. Why? Because of what it represented. Because that sacrifice of an animal that burnt offering unto the Lord was a form of worship. Was a was it a form of getting closer to God? And that was pleasing to him. Let me read to you this same passage, the second Corinthians passage in the New Living Translation, because I think it helps explain it just a little bit more clearly. Says, but thank God, he has made us his captives and continues to lead us along in Christ's triumphal procession. Now he uses us to spread the knowledge of Christ everywhere like a sweet perfume. Our lives are a Christ like fragrance rising up to God. But this fragrance is perceived differently by those who are being saved and by those who are perishing. To those who are perishing. We are a dreadful smell of death and doom. But to those who are being saved, we are a life giving perfume. What do you.
00:51:22
S5: Say? Very much so, because we have to be careful with our perfume. What is our aroma? Is it bitterness? Is it anger? Is it unforgiveness? You know, what is the aroma that we're giving? Or is it love? Is it mercy? Is it grace to others? You know, as we're being this, this aroma of Christ through it. And very important to this is when we're being that sweet aroma of Christ doesn't mean we're being perfection, but we're allowing Christ to work through us.
00:51:51
S3: Absolutely. And, you know, John Piper has. I want to read a quote to you from an article that I read that helped kind of break this down. He says some people smell the sacrificial, sacrificial love of Christ in the life of a missionary, and it only smells like death. They hear the gospel and all they hear is death. They look at the cross and all they see is death. They see no life, no hope, no future, no joy. And so they turn away. And if they turn away forever, they die. They are the perishing. The smell of death leads to death. I that sounds really heavy and I, I, I get that, but that is the context of this passage. Paul has suffered so greatly. He's suffered. He's been shipwrecked, he's been beaten, he's been stoned, he's suffered. He's suffered imprisonment for the sake of the gospel. He's been subject to the cold, to the exposure to the hunger. And then he says, the daily pressure of the anxiety he carries for all the churches. So you could easily look at his life, was the aroma of his life pleasing to everyone? Did everyone look at that kind of a life, that kind of a sacrifice and say, that's what I want? They couldn't see past the death. And so that's the context here. And so when we think about wanting to be this, that he spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere. That we are the aroma of Christ. We have to be okay and make peace with the fact that just like gasoline and fresh cut grass and the smell of a barn, it divides. And we have to make peace with that and not try to mask it as something else. Have you ever walked into a room that somebody tried to mask one odor with another?
00:53:39
S5: Please don't.
00:53:40
S3: I know, right?
00:53:41
S5: And but, and Jesus didn't mask his odor. And you got to think. You think people are rejecting your aroma. Don't you think? I mean, read the Bible. They rejected Christ's even. And he was Christ. He was Jesus Christ, and they still rejected his aroma.
00:53:58
S3: And the beauty of it is how it's described as a fragrance, as a sweet perfume. It's because for those who are being saved by this cross, this message that's so offensive to many. There's nothing sweeter. There's nothing sweeter than the aroma of knowing that he went to the cross and took death in your place. That's a really, really sweet smell, right? There's no salvation without it.
00:54:29
S1: This is Carl and Crew on Moody Radio.
00:54:33
S3: You know, we've been talking about the aroma, having a Christ like fragrance. And the cool thing about the gospel of Jesus Christ is once by the power of the Holy Spirit, you're able to see it. It means something so different that you don't just see the death. We are doing people a disservice when we share the gospel and only talk about the death of Christ, because it's the resurrection that sets the faith in Jesus Christ apart from any other world religion. It it all centers on the resurrection. And so I want to give you an opportunity this morning. Maybe you're listening. And this is all sounding kind of confusing. I'm talking about aroma and fragrance and death and like, what in the world?
00:55:16
S5: Candles and chlorine.
00:55:18
S3: And here's the here's the real. Though without the shedding of blood, there's no forgiveness of sin. And what you need to know, and I'll try to make this as simple as I possibly can, is that you've heard about across and you've heard about Jesus. Jesus went to the cross because there had to be a price paid for sin. So in doing so, he took the hole, the sin of the whole world once for all. There was no other way. So the only way for you to live a life that's at peace with God, where, yes, you spend eternity with him, which is huge. But you don't have to wait till eternity to start to reap the benefits of having an inheritance in Christ. It's new life right now. It's forgiveness of sins. It's the ability to walk, knowing that your life is not your own. The ability to know that there's a purpose that you were created for and to start to discover what that is. And so I want to appeal to you today, and maybe it's just one person listening. If you have not given your life to Jesus, which means that you accept what's true about you, that you're a sinner in need of a Savior, and you believe what's true about him, that he is who he says he is, that he did what he said he did, and it was for you. There was no other way. I want to invite you. There's no magic set of words. There's no special patent prayer that says, now you're a follower of Jesus, but it's a posture of the heart, a laying down of who you are and a surrender to him. And so if that's you, just have an honest moment with God where you do a couple things. You acknowledge I'm a sinner. I need a savior. I know it's not a higher power. It's you, Jesus. It's you. It's always been you. And so today and from this day forward, I follow you have that honest conversation with God. And I trust that by the power of the Holy Spirit, as you draw near to him, he draws near to you and you can experience new life right now in a moment. As you surrender your life, your heart, your will to him. And I just want to pray for you, Lord. For the person who's listening right now, God, who maybe it's things are starting to click. They've heard about you. Maybe they've gone to church. Maybe they've grown up in a Christian home. But Lord, in this moment, they're far from you. And today, God, they're saying no more. It's not my will, but it's your will. God, I pray that you would fill them with fresh joy, that you would give them a fresh assurance that, Lord, as they. The cry of their heart is to surrender and to follow you, Lord, that you would give them the sweet assurance that now they belong to you, Lord, that their future, they eternal, their eternal. Future is secure, and they can walk in new life and new joy in a spirit of repentance, turning from old ways to follow you, God. Lord, help them. Bless them. God. Surround them with people who are going to strengthen them. Lord. Thank you for this incredible miracle that's happening even right now. We're grateful for it. In Jesus name. Amen.
00:58:28
S5: Amen.
00:58:29
S3: If that's you, today is the first day of the rest of your life. The best days to come hard. Absolutely. Because there is a spiritual war. But man, you are armored up. You are walking with Christ. Now you're on the winning team. Just text new to 805 557898. We just want to follow up with you quickly, give you some follow up materials, just text new and e w to 805 557898 new 805 557898.
S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl and crew.
00:00:06
S2: Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems impossible and live as you never imagined.
00:00:15
S1: Delivering the truth daily.
00:00:17
S3: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available. And you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain that would make it worth it.
00:00:26
S4: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from the life source, which is God.
00:00:32
S5: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
00:00:44
S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl and crew.
00:00:49
S3: How well or how much do you trust what you can see?
00:00:54
S5: Ooh, that's a good question. I think it depends on what I'm looking at.
00:00:58
S3: You hear people say, well.
00:00:59
S5: Yeah.
00:01:00
S3: If I see it, I'll believe it. I'll believe it when I see it. True. Some people have a really refined palate, so they can tell if food is of good quality or not. Right.
00:01:12
S5: See, my mind went to social media right away to it's like, oh, can you tell what you're looking at? And with the growth of AI, I don't.
00:01:19
S3: Yeah, it's a good point. AI has made it much harder to.
00:01:22
S5: Much, much.
00:01:22
S3: Harder to see, particularly online. Yes. You know, it's interesting. We have these five senses and we've been talking about that already a little bit this morning. And we're going to have a great, great guest later on this hour. But I think there's a temptation to, for the most part, trust our senses, that our sight, if we can see it, if we can touch it, if we can taste it, if we can feel it, that there's this trust your gut, trust your experience kind of approach to going through life. And many people that their worldview is essentially based on that. Right. Kind of groping their way through the world, making sense of it as they can perceive it.
00:01:59
S5: Those senses are their checklist.
00:02:01
S3: Exactly. Coming up this hour, though, I think you're going to love this conversation. We've got a special guest who's going to be coming. Coming up. And he's going to talk about a passage of scripture that is really one of the most sensory rich in all of the Bible. And this was he introduced this to me. So I'm paraphrasing already some of what I know he's going to share, but it's where you see the senses all vividly on display, but for the most part, deceptively wrong.
00:02:31
S5: What I saw his notes a little bit like it was like, wow, I never stopped to think about it that way.
00:02:37
S3: And, you know, it's interesting because I there's a museum in Chicago called the Museum of Illusions. And I know and maybe there are other cities as well, but I took my kids there one time and it's, it's like being in a, like the Twilight Zone or something because.
00:02:52
S5: Alice in Wonderland sort of thing. It's upside down and sideways, and.
00:02:56
S3: Through the use of mirrors and angles, the. The size of things is distorted.
00:03:02
S5: Very much so. The flooring and everything else, how they work it and do it in the furniture. Absolutely.
00:03:07
S3: Yeah. The one room that's pretty popular is the kind of the upside down room. Yes. Which for pictures is a pretty cool looking thing because all of the things that should be on the floor or on the ceiling. Correct. And so what you can do is you can kind of position yourself to where, when you take the picture, you can spin it around and you can make it look like you're kind of like hanging from the ceiling, doing handstands, hanging off of the wall at odd angles, because the placement of everything is deceptive to the eye, and it makes for cool pictures.
00:03:42
S5: A lot of fun. Yeah, admittedly.
00:03:43
S3: We have one where I'm kind of hanging off of a bus stop and holding on to the side of a pole, and my daughter is kind of doing a hand. It just looks it looks crazy. And you go, what is going on in this picture? Or another one where the way the there's position, you can stand in two different places to where it looks like two people who are about the same size. One of them looks like a giant.
00:04:05
S5: And other tiny tiny.
00:04:06
S3: The other person looks like miniature. And it's all it's all crafted illusion. Trick your eye a little bit. I'll be honest, after about 20 minutes, I was like, I have to get out of here because it was so messing with my senses. I was feeling a little dizzy.
00:04:23
S5: I have heard people have done that or came out, came out rather with a little a little bit of a headache. It was fun, but.
00:04:27
S3: A little dizzy.
00:04:28
S5: Too much.
00:04:29
S3: A little nauseating. And I was like, guys, I'm sorry, I think I think I got a I gotta bail on this.
00:04:34
S5: I'm tapping out here.
00:04:36
S3: Messing with your senses kind of messes. With everything coming up, though, we're going to welcome Doctor Jim Coakley. When can you trust your senses and when should you not? We'll talk about it.
00:04:48
S1: He was running from God, but God's love brought him home. Carl is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
00:04:58
S3: Well, as promised, we're going to take you to one of the most sensory rich chapters, really, in all of Scripture. Doctor Jim Coakley is joining us to help break this down. We see an aging Isaac whose eyes were dim so he could not see, which is Genesis 271. Tell us a little bit first about what is happening in this passage. Where do we land in the narrative here?
00:05:22
S6: Yeah. So we're of course, Isaac feels that he is actually near the end of his life because he wants to confer the blessing on Esau. And again, that's going to be the tension in the story. But he lives for another 43 years, according to our calculations. So he's already already sensing that he's not getting all the right signals. Correct. But he's now going to be passing on the blessing to he thinks is going to be Esau. And that's the whole deception story. Rebecca, uh, Jacob's mom gets in on the action. Here's the plan. Uh, hatches this thing to make Jacob look and hear and feel like, uh, like his brother. And of course, that the ruse works. Uh. And so then Esau comes back at the end and figures out he's been conned again by his brother, and he's really mad. So that's kind of the backdrop behind what's going on here in Genesis 27.
00:06:15
S3: And of course, we have the patriarchs of the faith, Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. But Esau was the first born. Therefore should, in terms of the cultural norms, should have been the one to receive the blessing.
00:06:28
S6: And this is what's a little strange about this passage, because Rebecca received an oracle directly from God when she got pregnant. Uh, the Lord directly came to her and said, there's two nations in your womb. And it says, the younger you know, the elder shall serve the younger. Now, what we don't know is, did she keep that to herself or did she share that with with her. With her husband Isaac. Because if Isaac is wanting to bless Esau, knowing about that oracle, then his. He's really messed up. I mean, this is a dysfunctional family. There's favoritism going on. One parent likes one son, one son, and the other likes the other. So this is a dysfunctional family, but it's really hard to sort out all the messiness that's going on here. But this is, at the end of the day, God superintends it to accomplish what he wants. But in the in the thick of things, things are really, really dysfunctional here.
00:07:19
S3: So what do we know to be true about Isaac? I mean, we see that he's aging and that his sight is dimming. His intentions here are to bless Esau good intentions, or is it hard for us to say, well.
00:07:32
S7: It's hard for us to say, because already we.
00:07:34
S6: Sense in the text that Isaac, as he's aging. And again, I'm getting up there in years. Uh, and, you know, the idea is, is that we already see the seeds of where Isaac is going as he's aging? Because earlier in chapter 25, it says, oh, he loves Tasty game. Uh, so already we have, you know, he's got a hankering for whatever, uh, prey Esau is able to bring back and cook up, uh, you know, and eat. And so he's already got that taste sensory thing, really primary. We don't really hear about his spiritual vitality. Uh, it's really more this five senses that are really, really heightened in this passage. And that's what really makes this a very unique text in the Bible.
00:08:20
S3: Okay, so let's start to talk about where we see the senses pop up here. And they all five senses make a pretty prominent appearance. So we already know that his sight is dimming. So he knows that he can't trust his sight.
00:08:33
S6: Right? And that really sets up everything else. Because if he's not blind, I don't think the deception, of course, can't work at all. So with that spiritual, I think this is again, kind of that physical sight is diminished. But I think it's also letting us know that his spiritual senses are also diminishing. So it starts with his blindness that his eyes are dim. But what's interesting, of course, Moses at the end of Deuteronomy says his eyes were not dim. And so we know there's a contrast between Moses, whose eyes were not dim when he died and Isaac here. And so that's it. And then taste. We already talked about that. It says that, oh, man, go out and get some tasty game. I want to taste that in my mouth. It's really kind of a weird expression in the Hebrew game in my mouth. So he just lives for those kind of senses. And then, of course, when the ruse is being played out, he says, well, can I come near and let me touch you so that the touching is happening? And of course, they really put animal skins. And again, you have to wonder how hairy was Esau for goat skins to be the the thing. Oh yeah, that's my son Esau. It's like, oh no, there's people. I mean, my father in law is now with the Lord, but he had a hairy back whenever I saw it. But this that would not at all cover what I think. Esau, he had a full, full fur. Yeah. Basically, I think he had.
00:09:55
S3: Yes. If the animal skin felt like him, if that was what was used as part of the deception.
00:10:01
S6: And I think that's why he was effective Hunter because he was red and hairy and he could go out. He looked just like the animals he was hunting. But that's a whole nother discussion. Uh, but then what's interesting is the one sense that normally goes first as we age. I just got hearing aids this summer, but hearing is the one sense that Isaac seems to have still going good. Uh, because he says, hey, it's the voice of Jacob. But you're saying that it's Esau. And so it's weird that his hearing is the one that seems to be the one that is still functioning quite well, but that's the one he gets, gives him the best data, but he still blows past it with all the other four senses. And then, of course, the smell. He says, come near. Oh, and he sniffs. Uh, Jacob, of course, who's pretending to be his brother Esau. And he says, oh, the smell of the field. I said, oh my goodness, that's not a Cologne. I think I would want to to mark it. But Isaac seemed to love that. And so but all of these five senses are mentioned here. But it all starts, I think the kind of downward spiral really starts because his his physical sight is again signaling that his his spiritual senses are diminished as well.
00:11:12
S3: Coming up, we're going to have more with Doctor Jim Coakley as we break down this passage and the takeaways for us. What does this mean? Should you not trust what you see? I mean, we're tempted to see and taste and touch and smell. And that's kind of primarily what drives us through our life, through our decisions. What should we trust instead? Coming up.
00:11:33
S1: Take your next step with Jesus today. You're listening to cast and crew.
00:11:39
S3: How easy is it to be deceived by your senses? You think you can trust what you see or what you touch or what you taste? We see in Genesis 27 that Isaac, his intention was to bless his son Esau. He says, May I may bless you before I die. Well, then there's this great deception where instead of blessing Esau, Jacob kind of sneaks in with the assist by his mother, Rebecca, who is the one kind of who facilitates all of this. And because he can deceive his father, the taste, the touch, the smell, all of it sounds like or seems to be Esau, but it's Jacob. And so Isaac is deceived by his senses. Yes. Talk about some of the takeaways here. What should we see in this passage that we can apply?
00:12:30
S6: I mean, we kind of operate in the physical world. And so we do operate by our senses, and God gave them our senses. And so they're all good. But we can put too much weight on individual senses and not on really the idea that we need to be walking by faith, not by sight. And so that notion is, is that even though we have these God given, you know, senses, uh, and we can utilize them, but we are not to supplant God's word with them. I mean, I love Romans chapter ten. It says, faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. And so here we know one of the senses hearing. Uh, and so as we hear the Word of God, and of course, that carries the notion of obedience as well. It's not just listening to it, but it's listening and responding to it appropriately. And so, you know, we are to listen to the Word of God, and that's walk by faith, not by sight. So all these things are there. And so we have to be careful because sometimes the senses give us data that we can misinterpret. And I think this is where this passage is full of so many blown signals. I mean, the hearing should have alerted, you know, Isaac, that something was going on here. And we get a sense that he knows that, but he blows past that. And that's the thing is we have to be aware, and we have to be kind of humble to realize that our senses can deceive us.
00:13:57
S3: Which sense do you think we're most likely to be deceived by?
00:14:00
S6: Oh, boy. That's hard. I mean, we wouldn't normally think of, like, smell, uh, or something else. I mean, certainly, I think the visualization today we think about AI generated kind of things and it's like, man, you can hardly tell the fake from the real. It's getting very, very blurred between that reality. So I think in our day, especially sight, I think is probably one that's easily that's easily deceived because of especially in our day.
00:14:29
S3: And you think even like when you. The circumstances. Sometimes you. Some. Some situation can seem so appealing. It looks like a great option. Let's say you're presented with a job opportunity and boy, this looks really good to my eyes.
00:14:45
S6: Or we judge, you know, we can't judge a book by its cover. And so we make assumptions about people that we meet that may not be appropriate. I mean, we have that plenty. What's interesting, too, is that a lot of these senses are also at the beginning of the book of Samuel. Uh, you know, when again Eli again, he's he's got, uh, problems as he's aging with his senses. And again Samuel hears the voice of God. And so again, these, these texts are very, very important to kind of rein in our senses so that we understand that. No, it's it's by the word of God was rare in Samuel's day. So we need the Word of God. That's going to be the helpful guide that's going to help us to make sure that we don't use our senses to override our faith.
00:15:26
S3: Yeah. And then to taste like the appetites, as you mentioned, how Isaac. They meant it's recorded of how he loved Tasty Game. And so he wants his son to go prepare something that's going to taste good to his palate. So he was a man driven by appetites.
00:15:41
S6: Yes. And this is what is concerning to me as I'm getting into that senior status kind of level of life. I've seen so many people around me where they just focus on the senses. They want comfort, they want air conditioned, this and that, or they want better food. I was just commenting about yesterday. We had a faculty institute and we had Lou Malnati's Pizza for one, a celebration for George Mosher, our registrar here. And my wife was at home and she said, oh, I'm looking forward to having, you know, generic brand pizza from Jewel. And I was.
00:16:11
S3: Like.
00:16:12
S6: Oh man, it's like I'm eating one of the best Chicago pizza pies. And she's happy with generic pizza. Yeah. And it's like, I can see I just came back from Maine. I mean, I can taste the seafood still in my mouth from all of that because I can't afford it when it's when I'm here. But there, you can get it cheap and you can enjoy it. But I'm thinking, okay, is that what I want to live for? Do I want to live for my senses, my taste, my touch? I want to have the best, you know, AirPods. I want to have the best game or food on my table. I want to have the best, uh, you know, air conditioning level in my home. AM I all about patting my body or my really living by faith? And this is an application for my heart, certainly.
00:16:58
S3: No, I mean, it really is because the weekend, the thing we trust is the word of God. Yes. Right. Even when it feels like it contradicts what we can see primarily.
00:17:07
S6: Or we think we've done it all and we can coast, uh, and we can just kind of mail it in, so to speak, spiritually. No, you got to run towards the finish line.
00:17:17
S3: You'll find this story in Genesis 27. Look for the five senses as you read. Great opportunity for you to do a devotional today. Thank you to Doctor Jim Coakley, our special guest this morning for coming up here on Carl and Crew.
00:17:30
S1: You're listening to Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
00:17:33
S8: Do you like the smell of gasoline? No. Some people like it.
00:17:38
S5: They do.
00:17:39
S3: Some people really enjoy the smell of gasoline. I don't. I find it to be kind of sickening.
00:17:46
S5: Some enjoy, you know, freshly mowed grass.
00:17:48
S3: Yeah, that's another.
00:17:49
S5: One right into my sinuses. And I'm like, I can't do that.
00:17:52
S3: See, I kind of like the smell of freshly cut grass. That one's that's kind of nostalgic for me.
00:17:58
S5: See, now for me, it's chlorine. Chlorine. I love the smell of chlorine.
00:18:02
S8: Really?
00:18:03
S5: Yeah.
00:18:04
S3: Because it takes you back to your pool days.
00:18:06
S5: It can. Or just. I'm trying. I smell a pool. Move. Get out of my way! I smell a pool. Yeah. The chlorine. Yeah, that's one of mine. I do like that.
00:18:14
S3: There are certain smells that are universally, I think, appreciated. So the smell of chocolate chip cookies baking.
00:18:21
S5: Oh, come on now.
00:18:23
S3: I mean, even if you don't like to eat chocolate chip cookies, you walk into a home and there's anything baking, any sweet baking, and it's, it fills the home and it smells really good. I think most people like the smell of fresh flowers. Like if you were to go and take a sniff of a lilac.
00:18:41
S5: Yes, yes.
00:18:42
S3: It gives off very pleasing aroma to most people. But then when you talk about things like gasoline or grass or some people like the smell of like barn horse smell like, okay, people who work.
00:18:58
S5: Enjoy the country. Yeah, yeah, that country.
00:19:00
S3: Smell is maybe nostalgic to you, whereas others find it manure like. Sure. What else? Mothballs.
00:19:07
S5: Mothballs. That's a different one. Absolutely. Pine. Things like that of the forest. People enjoy that sort of smell. Um, I like the smell of, like, backstage, like an old stage because you've got the wooden floors and all that that's going on. I mean, granted, there's a lot of dust in backstage, but that kind of archaic vintage smell is kind of cool.
00:19:26
S3: Old. The old smell?
00:19:27
S5: Yeah, absolutely.
00:19:28
S3: What about what about smelling like. Like when you smell like dogs? Like there's a dog here. Does that smell off putting to you or does that?
00:19:36
S5: No, because I love pets. So I mean, unless the dog really found, you know, something to roll in. I use quotation marks like Carl says, the quotation marks rolling. Um, but other than that, no, it's like, give me a pet for sure. For sure.
00:19:49
S3: So we tend to be divided about certain smells and while and certain other smells unite us. You may see where I'm going with this. Coming up. We're going to talk about fragrance and aroma and where we see smell used in Scripture. When you start looking for all of these, as we march through this week all over the Word of God, but today, smell. What is the best smell that you can think of? I want you to text me on this. What is the thing that smells great to you universally. Maybe it's something that everyone appreciates. Maybe it's a certain Cologne or perfume. Maybe it's the smell of laundry. That's one of my favorites.
00:20:28
S5: Oh, that is.
00:20:29
S3: I love I really like when I'm taking a walk and I can I can smell like the laundry vent. Someone's just put in a load of laundry and they've used the dryer sheets.
00:20:39
S5: Got it.
00:20:40
S3: That is a really good smell to me. What do you say? What is your favorite smell? I know, kind of a strange question, but I promise I'm going somewhere. Text us (800) 555-7898. Best smell, hands down. Tell us what you think it is. (800) 555-7898, send us a text.
00:20:59
S1: He's a sports fanatic with a stat for anything you can think of. Young Thunder is in the crew. It's curl and crew on Moody radio.
00:21:09
S3: We're talking about the five senses this week. And today I want to talk about fragrances. About scents. What are those scents? Those smells that you feel really positively. Maybe it's chocolate baked, fresh baked cookies or. I love the new baby smell.
00:21:26
S5: Oh, come on now. I mean.
00:21:28
S8: Oh my.
00:21:29
S3: Goodness.
00:21:29
S5: That's not a.
00:21:30
S3: New baby smell. Let me go through some of what you texted. 2276 A newborn baby. Absolutely. 8546 bread baking in the oven.
00:21:40
S5: Yes.
00:21:41
S3: How about the salty air? Right when you get to the shore? Oh, yes. Yeah. That is a great, great smell.
00:21:47
S5: Very good.
00:21:47
S3: One. The smell of freshly turned dirt by the farmers in the spring. It reminds me that God is starting a new life. Growing. Oh, okay.
00:21:56
S5: Okay. Yeah. And gardeners. I could see that for sure.
00:21:59
S3: Lake water. The smell of fresh cherry pie.
00:22:03
S5: Oh, there we go.
00:22:05
S3: This person, 72, 94, loves the smell of new carpet. 7715. Another vote for the salty air of the ocean. 8360. Fresh Brewed coffee. 0041. Chocolate or lilacs. The smell of fresh cut grass. 1734 A charred hot dog is a really good smell. 5920 garlic, onions and peppers. You know, I, I have a Haitian mother in law, and everything she cooks starts with a blend of garlic, pepper and onion. So, so good. It does, because I know something good is.
00:22:40
S8: Coming, right?
00:22:42
S3: Homegrown roses. Let's see another vote for freshly baked bread cleaning supplies 0661. Then. I know the bathroom is clean. Newborn baby crisp autumn morning.
00:22:56
S5: Oh, thumbs up for sure. Yes.
00:22:59
S3: How about. Yeah, that smell after rain? Yes, that's a good smell.
00:23:03
S5: Another good one.
00:23:04
S3: Coffee or bacon? Fresh mowed alfalfa field. I don't think I know.
00:23:10
S5: I don't know what that.
00:23:10
S3: Smells like. A new box of crayons.
00:23:14
S5: Oh, like school to like, you know, new book.
00:23:17
S3: There is a smell in the classroom when all the supplies are still fresh. Just broken out. Baby power powder, fresh asphalt, permanent marker highlighter. I think we're getting to some of those that might divide campfire.
00:23:34
S5: That's another one. Yeah.
00:23:35
S3: That's true. Cinnamon. When we think of all these different smells, do you know that as Christ followers we have a certain aroma, certain fragrance? Here is the hard part though. It is going to be a dividing fragrance. It's going to be a lot more like gasoline or barn smell to some people than chocolate chip cookies or baby powder. I'll explain. Coming up.
00:24:03
S1: He was sharing the gospel on the radio and then he got saved. Young thunders in the crew. It's Colin Crew on Moody Radio.
00:24:12
S3: I'm gonna take you to a passage of scripture that I had to wrestle with a little bit, because even though I've heard it read it many times, I don't think I had grasped fully what it meant when I started to see it. I wasn't sure how I felt about it. Let me read you the passage of Scripture. This is Second Corinthians 214 through 17. I'm going to first read it in the ESV or the English Standard Version. That's primarily what I read for my own personal study, but then I'm going to read it to you in the New Living Translation, because I think it makes it a little bit clearer. First up, ESV. But thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession, and through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere. For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. That second Corinthians 214 and 15. Then you got to go on to verse 16 to 1, a fragrance from death to to death to the other, a fragrance from life to life. Who is sufficient for such things? For we are not like so many peddlers of God's word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God in the sight of God, we speak in Christ. Okay, that's a lot. I want to focus on this one verse. I'm sure you've heard that it's said that we are the aroma of Christ. Have you heard that before?
00:25:35
S5: Yeah, absolutely.
00:25:36
S3: And so as soon as I thought about the five senses this week, this is where my mind went for smell for sure. And so I think what I had missed in this passage, the aroma of Christ, the fragrance we are supposed to be, the fragrance of Christ to the world. I had a kind of sanitized view of that, of what that really meant though. So I didn't realize that the fragrance of Christ is, to many people, the smell of death.
00:26:05
S5: Are all right.
00:26:07
S3: And that was a tough one. So the word aroma here is the same word used in Greek Old Testament to describe the scent of a sacrifice pleasing to God. I'll take you to Genesis eight. Describes Noah building an altar. Noah built an altar to the Lord and took some of every clean animal and some of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. And when the Lord smelled the pleasing aroma, the Lord said in his heart, I will never again curse the ground because of man. And then it goes on. But I'll stop there. So this aroma, us being the fragrance of the knowledge of him, he uses us to spread the fragrance of him. The aroma of Christ for many people is the smell of death. You cannot separate the aroma of Christ from the cross of Christ.
00:26:54
S5: And how many of us want to be chocolate chip cookies? Yes, and conform to the chocolate chip cookies instead of going, you know what? Maybe to you I might be a little rank, but to me it's the sweet smell of Christ within me.
00:27:09
S3: Exactly. You nailed it. I think we want to smell like chocolate chip cookies. We want an aroma that will be pleasing to everyone. I'm going to read this passage to you again in the New Living Translation. Um, just the first couple verses. But thank God he has made us his captives and continues to lead us along in Christ's triumphal procession. Procession. Rather. Now he uses us to spread the knowledge of Christ everywhere like a sweet perfume. Keep going. Though our lives are a Christ like fragrance rising up to God. But this fragrance is perceived differently by those who are being saved and by those who are perishing. To those who are perishing. We are a dreadful smell of death and doom. But to those who are being saved, we are a life giving perfume. And who is adequate for such a task as this? So to some, the fragrance of Christ, the cross of Christ, the death, the sacrifice that was offered once for all. Some people can't get past the smell of death.
00:28:11
S5: They can't know.
00:28:13
S3: Smelling a burnt sacrifice. Why was a burnt sacrifice a pleasing aroma to God? Why did the smell of the burning flesh of animals? Why was that pleasing to God? Because it represents life, right? It represents his ability to to be near to his people, for them to draw near to him. I was reading an article about this passage of Scripture, and I want to read you a quote from John Piper who is desiring God. Great, great resource. He says, some people smell the sacrificial love of Christ in the life of a missionary, and it only smells like death. They hear the gospel and all they hear is death. They look at the cross. All they see is death. They see no life, no hope, no future, no joy. And so they turn away. And if they turn away forever, they die. They are perishing. The smell of death leads to death. Now for the Christ follower, the smell of death leads to life, right? We understand that. But for the cross of Christ, there is no life. No.
00:29:17
S5: It can't be.
00:29:18
S3: And so Paul, in writing this letter to the Corinthians, he talks a lot about the kind of the anguish that he had gone through. He had great concern over issues that were going on in the church. He mentions his concern for Titus. He's dealing with a lot of anxiety. He also we know if we read other parts of Scripture that he has suffered much. He's gone through shipwreck and he's been stoned. He's faced danger on all sides. He's seen many a sleepless nights. He's gone without food. He's been subject to cold and to exposure to the elements and then the daily pressure, he says on me of my anxiety for all the churches to look at the life of Paul, not everybody would say that's a victorious chocolate chip, cookie smelling life. Many people would look at that and they see the smell of suffering and death, and they're turned off by it.
00:30:12
S5: Very much so. And smell, too. Like it opens up the door of understanding what what the reality of something is. It's like you smell it even before you maybe even come into a room. So it's the same with us. If we are really smelling like Christ, if Christ is within us, that smell permeates how we love each other, how we respect each other, how we talk to each other. But again, even before even words come out, it's our actions and everything. That smell is already showing through it. And the glorious part, some of that is for some, yes, it is that smell of death, but for some others it does become a smell that's. I'm intrigued. I want to know more about that smell.
00:30:55
S3: And so the thing that I had to wrestle with, and I hope that this comes across in the way that I'm intending. I pray that it does. Is that are we willing to really be the aroma of Christ? Yeah. Because it's tempting to want to make it more palatable, make the gospel a little bit more palatable, to emphasize parts and not the other to kind of shrink back from truth. Because if we're going to be the aroma of Christ, it's a smell that divides the world. That's what John Piper said. I'm quoting him directly. It divides the world. So if we try to have an aroma that's pleasing to everyone, then we are not truly representing Christ.
00:31:34
S5: No, we are not.
00:31:34
S3: We're not the aroma of Christ when we are pleasing to everybody, the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere, the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. We have to remember that to some people it's going to be the fragrance of death. We don't have to try to mask it, dress it up. We live boldly for Christ and trust that there are people who will see and smell life.
00:31:59
S1: He was sharing the gospel on the radio and then he got saved. Young thunders in the crew. It's Carl and crew on Moody Radio.
00:32:09
S3: Well, if you have a teenager, you know teenagers are. Teenage boys can have a lot of quirks. One of them is, you know, saying, do I really need to shower again? Or I can totally wear this shirt again. See, mom, it smells just fine. Yeah, smell it.
00:32:27
S5: Here. Smell this smell. Where do you.
00:32:29
S3: Like? If you have to do a smell check on your shirt.
00:32:33
S5: Thank you honey.
00:32:34
S3: But as we talk about being the aroma of Christ. Maybe this sounds kind of crazy and gross, but I think it's okay to do a little bit of a smell check on our on our own lives and go, am I, am I the aroma of Christ in the way that I am? By God's grace, he can help me to be bold enough to where I don't shrink back. And I don't try to make myself pleasing to everyone because that's a tough thing if you have people pleasing tendencies, and if you don't really want to rock the boat, then it's going to be hard for people who are wired like me, I get it, I'm right there with you, but let's do a smell check today. Let's ask the Lord to help us. We if we want to be the aroma of Christ. Why? Because that spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere, right? That's it. That's how more people come to know him because that aroma is pleasing.
00:33:21
S1: Want to hear that again? Just download the Curl and Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
00:33:27
S3: Well, coming up, whether it's a beautiful painting or a music that captures your heart, literature, arts, the arts have the power to do something really special. Coming up, we've got an author. He is a creative. He's the first one to admit it. He says, you can discover God through the arts. He's written a book about it. How we can grow Closer to God by appreciating beauty and creativity. That's coming up.
00:33:52
S1: Walking closer to Jesus every day. You're listening to Carl and crew.
00:33:57
S3: Well, if you were to look into my home right now, there is a spot on the wall right as you walk in that is begging for a piece of art. I have taped off the dimensions of what I want. It's a big, big point of emphasis on the wall. But it's now been five years and I have not found the perfect piece of art. Why? Because I don't want to just put anything up there. I don't want to put up a piece of art that doesn't have a story. I don't want to just put color on a canvas to make the decor look better. I've been looking for something that to me, captures the beauty that God's created or speaks to me in some way. We can discover God through the arts. Our guest this morning, author Terry Glaspy. I'm excited about this conversation. Maybe it will help me fill that blank space on my wall. He's written this book, Discovering God Through the Arts. Are you an art lover or a creative yourself, Terry? Give me a little bit of your own story.
00:34:56
S9: Yeah, well, I'm very much an art lover. The arts in general, whether it be painting or music or literature or film or whatever. They've created some of my most intimate moments with God. Some of those have occurred viewing a painting or watching a movie or reading a book. I think it's one way that God really connects with us. I love it. It touches my soul. The best of it also, I think, helps me on my pathway to becoming a better human being, the kind God wants me to be. I dabble a little bit in painting. I wouldn't say I'm very good at it. Writing is probably my primary creative outlet, but I think we're all creative.
00:35:42
S3: I love that, and I love that you gave us a broader picture of the arts, because certainly we've all experienced the wonder of music and the beauty of great literature. You read. Sometimes you read words on a page, and the beauty of a well crafted sentence. As a former journalist, this this one I feel for sure. It paints a picture. It tells a story in such a way that you are moved. So tell me a little bit more about how you've seen the arts assist in your own prayer life, in your own devotional life, and connecting with God?
00:36:14
S9: Yeah, well, I think that I mean, there's so many ways things I could take on this because it's something I've thought a lot about and written about. But, you know, one is that the arts can really help the Bible come alive for us. You know, we read the words on the page and we're moved by them, but sometimes seeing them or hearing them through the eyes of a painter or a musician or a filmmaker adds a adds another perspective, another window into how God has worked in the past and how he can work in our lives today. And I think that my prayer life has also been enriched. Um, oftentimes through, uh, really good poetry. I love the poet T.S. Eliot and his very deeply faith centered poem talks of poems called the Four Quartets. Sometimes I will grab my little book of the Four Quartets and go somewhere and sit under a tree in the shade and just read it slowly, and then kind of pray it back what I'm feeling and experiencing. So, and there's just so many examples I could give of ways in which God has really enriched my life through the work of artists.
00:37:34
S3: We've got Terry Glaspie with us this morning. He's written over a dozen books, including Discovering God Through the Arts. One of the things you tackle in this book is how arts help us build empathy and to deal with emotion. Speak to that a little bit.
00:37:48
S9: I think one of the most powerful things that the arts can do is to help us build empathy. I mean, we we live so easily just in the own little shell of our own life and our connections with people around us and what's familiar to us. And we can get overly comfortable there and we can lose sight of what it means when Jesus said, we need to love God, and then we need to love our neighbor. Well, reading especially and films probably would be my second one in which I'd say this although all art forms can do this, take me deeply into other people's lives and help me to see what life feels like and looks like from their perspective, which hopefully will make me somewhat wiser, but even more so will make me more compassionate because I'll feel what it. What it's like to walk in their shoes for a for a short period of time and to experience life the way they are living it. And I, I really think that empathy in particular, is one of the most powerful tools for just growing into being the kind of person that God wants, wants me to be. I'm a big, big believer in that, the idea of vicarious experience. And then there's also the fact that sometimes the arts can challenge us. I think about the story of the prophet Nathan coming to David, telling him a story about a man who had a very rich man who had stolen the sheep of a poor man. And and David becomes incensed by this story, and he says, we need to do something about this. Who is this person? And David turns to him and says, you are the man.
00:39:34
S10: Yeah.
00:39:35
S9: And I think there's something about the arts that can also challenge us that it can be a window in helping us see our own faults, our own weaknesses, the places where we struggle. And they remind us that we're not alone in those struggles, which we can sometimes begin to feel. And that's one thing I love about reading a really good novel, is it'll take me inside the life of a character who I recognize myself, elements of myself in that character, and it challenges me to want to grow and become a better person.
00:40:12
S3: Terry Glaspy with us. One of the other books that you've written that the title is intriguing to me. 75 Masterpieces Every Christian Should Know. Can you identify one? Maybe one of your favorites, a masterpiece, a work of art, or an artist who has a story that points to the gospel or displays the gospel in some way? Which one stands out to you?
00:40:34
S9: Well, that's a little bit like asking somebody which of their children is their favorite.
00:40:39
S10: Okay, fair.
00:40:41
S9: But actually there are several, um, that are particularly moving for me. And one I was thinking about recently is the painting by the painter Caravaggio called The Incredulity of Saint Thomas. This is a Bible centered painting that tells the story of when Jesus appears to the disciples in the upper room. And Thomas had missed him the first time, and the others had said, Jesus is risen. And he said, I. I won't believe that unless I can put my hand into his wound. And that is exactly what we see in this powerful, powerful painting that Jesus has taken the hand of Thomas and has gently guided it. He's kind of pulled his robe aside and gently guided his fingers into the wound. And there's something about that that I find really powerful in that it it speaks of the reality of the resurrection. This was not just a ghostly apparition of Jesus. This was the Jesus who is resurrected. And that's the promise for us today that we to death will not be the last word for us. And you know, it's interesting that Caravaggio himself was a man who struggled with sin and temptation all of his life. He was kind of hot tempered. And he would get into he got into a sword fight that got him into trouble and he had to flee Rome. He was totally human. And yet God was able to use the giftings that God had given him to paint one miraculous painting after another. And so many of his paintings are about biblical moments.
00:42:34
S3: I love it. Terry Glaspy it's been a joy this morning. I want you to text the word art if you want more on some of the resources we discussed, just text art to 805 557898, text art to 805 557898.
00:42:51
S1: Celebrating the Unstoppable gospel.
00:42:54
S4: It's not that I've got to fill in these check boxes, so he's okay with me, but it's that I get to stand close to him so that I can experience the life that he has for me.
00:43:03
S1: You're listening to Cast and Crew.
00:43:05
S3: Well, I put out this question. We have actually a member of our Moody radio team who's in studio with us this morning. And he said, I got I actually have an answer to this one. So Merle, who is joining us this morning. So how does this question hit you? How how have the arts helped you to connect with God?
00:43:22
S11: Well, it's affected me in a huge way, in two ways. I'm an art institute student, and that's where I met my wife.
00:43:30
S3: An art institute student.
00:43:32
S11: Or a former student. Sorry. Alumni from the Art Institute. So that's where I met my wife. So that's on one level that God in the arts brought me to my wife. And then just God being the ultimate creator, that's just us being like him. Yeah. And so that's how I connect with God through art and, and we're being like our father in heaven. We're just creating on a much smaller level with music, writing, painting, drawing. I love what you do here, speaking just everything. So as he is in everything, we represent that as well in what we do and create.
00:44:15
S3: Now, what kind of art do you do?
00:44:17
S11: Primarily painting and drawing. So oil painting I'm. I lean more towards being an impressionist. The. What was mentioned earlier. Caravaggio. Oh, okay. Yeah.
00:44:31
S3: The painting?
00:44:32
S11: Yeah. The artist. I'm a big fan. So some of my style of painting goes that direction and Monet ish. So really a painter and draw some film and video. So at the Art Institute, I was doing everything. I was video, film, photography, painting, drawing.
00:44:54
S3: I didn't know this about you.
00:44:56
S11: Yeah, this is really cool.
00:44:58
S3: And then music too. So as you're creating something, how, how would you describe like the feeling of the connection with God even as part of the creative process? What does that feel like for you?
00:45:10
S11: Most times for me, I don't believe it's me. I believe it's something that we all can tap into. That's, uh, God sent. So I think there's some things that aren't and we can clearly see that. But what's interesting to me is we're someone who is not even a believer, is still doing something that God does, and they don't even realize it. And that's creating that's a God thing whether you believe or not. So that's one way we can even get closer to him to really understand how he thinks. Because how we think in creating is this same way that he created us.
00:45:53
S3: As image bearers. Yeah.
00:45:54
S11: Yeah.
00:45:55
S3: Oh that's awesome. That's Merle, who's a part of the Moody radio team here who's in studio. Heard the question and awesome. I'm glad we brought you on, Mike.
00:46:04
S1: Tune in whenever you like. Check out the Carl and Crew podcast wherever you like to stream.
00:46:10
S3: Well, you are officially introducing me to sense that either I didn't know even existed or hadn't even ever considered. But how about this one? Someone texted the smell of the water when you first turn on a garden hose. 100% took me there. There was a memory blast when you turn on the hose, and I don't even know how to describe what the smell is.
00:46:35
S5: You can't know.
00:46:36
S3: But a hot summer day, that hose comes on. There is a smell when that water first comes out. What about grilled liver and onions? Someone said that reminds them of their dad. The smell of bacon. Yeah. I'm with you on that. The pages of a new book? Yes. Or how about the pages of an older book? There's some nostalgia there, too.
00:46:57
S5: There is a lot of.
00:46:58
S3: Smell of the woods. Smell of shampoo.
00:47:00
S5: Oh, yes.
00:47:01
S3: Yeah, some shampoos really smell great. And freshly washed hair.
00:47:05
S5: Oh, definitely. Definitely. And there's woods. I love that one. Now bleach. That's different.
00:47:10
S3: That's kind of in the chlorine.
00:47:12
S5: Chlorine. Yes. Oh see they did include chlorine.
00:47:15
S3: There you.
00:47:15
S5: Go. Thank you.
00:47:16
S3: The thing about smells is it does tend to be pretty personal. Right. That you can have a Cologne or a perfume that you absolutely love and somebody else hates it, right?
00:47:30
S5: Yeah.
00:47:30
S3: I mean, oh, and vice versa. You can hate a smell of something that to somebody else is, is just so pleasant. I want to take you to second Corinthians 214 through 17 and talk about what it is to be the aroma of Christ, to be the fragrance of him to the world. Let's start with verse 14. It says, but thanks be to God, who in Christ always leads us in triumphal procession, and through us spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere. For we are the aroma of Christ to God among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing. Verse 16, though, is where this starts to turn to one a fragrance from death to death to the other, a fragrance from life to life. Who is sufficient for these things? For we are not like so many peddlers of God's word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God in the sight of God. We speak in Christ. Want to go back to verse 15, for we are the aroma of Christ to God. I had heard this read this many, many times, but I think for some reason I missed the back half of this. The aroma of Christ. I think we want it to be chocolate chip cookies.
00:48:48
S5: Oh. Hands down. Exactly. That's what we want to be. Baked bread people pleasers. We want to be chocolate chip cookies.
00:48:53
S3: We want to smell really good. Oh, here's the thing about being the aroma of Christ, though, that you cannot miss when you look at this passage is verse 16 to 1, a fragrance from death to death to the other, a fragrance from life to life, the aroma of Christ, the scent of a Christian, is going to divide. It is not going to be a pleasing smell to everyone. And I did some digging on this because honestly, I wrestled a little bit. Like I always thought of this as more like the chocolate chip cookies like, and there's an aspect of that, that our good works are the things that we do to point people to Christ.
00:49:33
S5: And why wouldn't everybody love.
00:49:34
S3: It is very there's a winsome aspect to it, but the aroma of Christ. You cannot separate from the cross, the death of Christ. This word aroma is the same word that's used in the Greek in the Old Testament to describe the scent of a sacrifice that's pleasing to God. You go to Genesis eight. I'll just read a couple verses that Noah built an altar to the Lord and took some of every clean animal and some of every clean bird, and offered burnt offerings on the altar. And when the Lord smelled the pleasing aroma, the Lord said in his heart, I will never again curse the ground because of man, the pleasing aroma of the burning flesh of an animal. Huh? Right.
00:50:18
S5: I know, it makes you scratch your head a little bit. I know.
00:50:20
S3: But that was a pleasing aroma. Why? Because of what it represented. Because that sacrifice of an animal that burnt offering unto the Lord was a form of worship. Was a was it a form of getting closer to God? And that was pleasing to him. Let me read to you this same passage, the second Corinthians passage in the New Living Translation, because I think it helps explain it just a little bit more clearly. Says, but thank God, he has made us his captives and continues to lead us along in Christ's triumphal procession. Now he uses us to spread the knowledge of Christ everywhere like a sweet perfume. Our lives are a Christ like fragrance rising up to God. But this fragrance is perceived differently by those who are being saved and by those who are perishing. To those who are perishing. We are a dreadful smell of death and doom. But to those who are being saved, we are a life giving perfume. What do you.
00:51:22
S5: Say? Very much so, because we have to be careful with our perfume. What is our aroma? Is it bitterness? Is it anger? Is it unforgiveness? You know, what is the aroma that we're giving? Or is it love? Is it mercy? Is it grace to others? You know, as we're being this, this aroma of Christ through it. And very important to this is when we're being that sweet aroma of Christ doesn't mean we're being perfection, but we're allowing Christ to work through us.
00:51:51
S3: Absolutely. And, you know, John Piper has. I want to read a quote to you from an article that I read that helped kind of break this down. He says some people smell the sacrificial, sacrificial love of Christ in the life of a missionary, and it only smells like death. They hear the gospel and all they hear is death. They look at the cross and all they see is death. They see no life, no hope, no future, no joy. And so they turn away. And if they turn away forever, they die. They are the perishing. The smell of death leads to death. I that sounds really heavy and I, I, I get that, but that is the context of this passage. Paul has suffered so greatly. He's suffered. He's been shipwrecked, he's been beaten, he's been stoned, he's suffered. He's suffered imprisonment for the sake of the gospel. He's been subject to the cold, to the exposure to the hunger. And then he says, the daily pressure of the anxiety he carries for all the churches. So you could easily look at his life, was the aroma of his life pleasing to everyone? Did everyone look at that kind of a life, that kind of a sacrifice and say, that's what I want? They couldn't see past the death. And so that's the context here. And so when we think about wanting to be this, that he spreads the fragrance of the knowledge of him everywhere. That we are the aroma of Christ. We have to be okay and make peace with the fact that just like gasoline and fresh cut grass and the smell of a barn, it divides. And we have to make peace with that and not try to mask it as something else. Have you ever walked into a room that somebody tried to mask one odor with another?
00:53:39
S5: Please don't.
00:53:40
S3: I know, right?
00:53:41
S5: And but, and Jesus didn't mask his odor. And you got to think. You think people are rejecting your aroma. Don't you think? I mean, read the Bible. They rejected Christ's even. And he was Christ. He was Jesus Christ, and they still rejected his aroma.
00:53:58
S3: And the beauty of it is how it's described as a fragrance, as a sweet perfume. It's because for those who are being saved by this cross, this message that's so offensive to many. There's nothing sweeter. There's nothing sweeter than the aroma of knowing that he went to the cross and took death in your place. That's a really, really sweet smell, right? There's no salvation without it.
00:54:29
S1: This is Carl and Crew on Moody Radio.
00:54:33
S3: You know, we've been talking about the aroma, having a Christ like fragrance. And the cool thing about the gospel of Jesus Christ is once by the power of the Holy Spirit, you're able to see it. It means something so different that you don't just see the death. We are doing people a disservice when we share the gospel and only talk about the death of Christ, because it's the resurrection that sets the faith in Jesus Christ apart from any other world religion. It it all centers on the resurrection. And so I want to give you an opportunity this morning. Maybe you're listening. And this is all sounding kind of confusing. I'm talking about aroma and fragrance and death and like, what in the world?
00:55:16
S5: Candles and chlorine.
00:55:18
S3: And here's the here's the real. Though without the shedding of blood, there's no forgiveness of sin. And what you need to know, and I'll try to make this as simple as I possibly can, is that you've heard about across and you've heard about Jesus. Jesus went to the cross because there had to be a price paid for sin. So in doing so, he took the hole, the sin of the whole world once for all. There was no other way. So the only way for you to live a life that's at peace with God, where, yes, you spend eternity with him, which is huge. But you don't have to wait till eternity to start to reap the benefits of having an inheritance in Christ. It's new life right now. It's forgiveness of sins. It's the ability to walk, knowing that your life is not your own. The ability to know that there's a purpose that you were created for and to start to discover what that is. And so I want to appeal to you today, and maybe it's just one person listening. If you have not given your life to Jesus, which means that you accept what's true about you, that you're a sinner in need of a Savior, and you believe what's true about him, that he is who he says he is, that he did what he said he did, and it was for you. There was no other way. I want to invite you. There's no magic set of words. There's no special patent prayer that says, now you're a follower of Jesus, but it's a posture of the heart, a laying down of who you are and a surrender to him. And so if that's you, just have an honest moment with God where you do a couple things. You acknowledge I'm a sinner. I need a savior. I know it's not a higher power. It's you, Jesus. It's you. It's always been you. And so today and from this day forward, I follow you have that honest conversation with God. And I trust that by the power of the Holy Spirit, as you draw near to him, he draws near to you and you can experience new life right now in a moment. As you surrender your life, your heart, your will to him. And I just want to pray for you, Lord. For the person who's listening right now, God, who maybe it's things are starting to click. They've heard about you. Maybe they've gone to church. Maybe they've grown up in a Christian home. But Lord, in this moment, they're far from you. And today, God, they're saying no more. It's not my will, but it's your will. God, I pray that you would fill them with fresh joy, that you would give them a fresh assurance that, Lord, as they. The cry of their heart is to surrender and to follow you, Lord, that you would give them the sweet assurance that now they belong to you, Lord, that their future, they eternal, their eternal. Future is secure, and they can walk in new life and new joy in a spirit of repentance, turning from old ways to follow you, God. Lord, help them. Bless them. God. Surround them with people who are going to strengthen them. Lord. Thank you for this incredible miracle that's happening even right now. We're grateful for it. In Jesus name. Amen.
00:58:28
S5: Amen.
00:58:29
S3: If that's you, today is the first day of the rest of your life. The best days to come hard. Absolutely. Because there is a spiritual war. But man, you are armored up. You are walking with Christ. Now you're on the winning team. Just text new to 805 557898. We just want to follow up with you quickly, give you some follow up materials, just text new and e w to 805 557898 new 805 557898.
