Dealing With Rumination

WEBVTT
00:00:09.412 --> 00:00:11.994
Hello and welcome to Just One Thing.
00:00:11.994 --> 00:00:24.585
I'm Brad Stearns, here with Lisa Stearns, and we're your hosts on this weekly exploration of simple ways to enhance your relationships, improve your health, manage your stress and just be happier.
00:00:24.585 --> 00:00:29.225
Now settle in while we discuss Just One Thing.
00:00:29.225 --> 00:00:34.472
Good day, good morning, hello, good day.
00:00:34.472 --> 00:00:37.875
This is the next episode of Just One Thing.
00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:40.588
Just One Thing is the podcast of Mindful Living Today.
00:00:40.588 --> 00:00:43.249
You can find us on Facebook as the Mindful Couple.
00:00:43.249 --> 00:00:44.445
We have a great Facebook group.
00:00:44.445 --> 00:00:47.609
We'd love you to join Mindful Living Today with Lisa and Brad.
00:00:47.609 --> 00:00:52.405
We're on Instagram as well, and that is all for the moment.
00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:55.560
Today we are going to talk about rumination.
00:00:55.560 --> 00:01:02.133
We'll talk a little bit about what rumination is, how it can be detrimental and really how to deal with it.
00:01:02.133 --> 00:01:06.870
So I'm entitling this how to deal with rumination, or dealing with rumination.
00:01:06.870 --> 00:01:19.046
This is something that we wanted to talk about because oftentimes we find people who don't even realize that they're ruminating and what it can do to you and how it's probably not the best thing that they can do to this.
00:01:19.760 --> 00:01:26.640
I ruminate a lot and so I don't know that I have particularly effective ways of dealing with rumination, but I try.
00:01:26.640 --> 00:01:33.359
It's one of those areas where I think practice makes you better, but I don't know that it's something that you can truly eliminate.
00:01:33.359 --> 00:01:35.593
At least I haven't been successful so far.
00:01:35.673 --> 00:01:36.840
It's just awareness, like everything.
00:01:37.040 --> 00:01:45.129
Why don't you talk a little bit about how you define rumination and sort of why you wanted to talk about it this morning or afternoon?
00:01:45.129 --> 00:01:48.147
Because I don't want people to know what time this is.
00:01:50.144 --> 00:02:03.054
I think rumination is one of those things that people don't understand or even know that they are experiencing, and it can cause a great deal of anxiety.
00:02:03.054 --> 00:02:07.131
It can cause a great deal of stress, for those around you.
00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:10.474
So why don't you tell me how you define what you think rumination?
00:02:10.474 --> 00:02:17.091
Is oh, sorry, didn't answer your question, that's alright, because people may not know that they do it, because they may not even know what it is.
00:02:17.919 --> 00:02:21.508
I was going to get there, but we'll come at it from the front end.
00:02:21.508 --> 00:02:32.268
So to me and it's not just my definition I mean rumination, and ruminating thoughts are those that you find repetitive thoughts.
00:02:32.268 --> 00:02:42.450
There are things that you think over and over again, that you can't get out of your mind, or they keep popping up and I think of it as something like that you keep chewing at.
00:02:42.960 --> 00:02:50.210
It's just like something that keeps coming up and you're like oh maybe if I do something this way it'll be better, or maybe if I do something that way it'll be different.
00:02:51.402 --> 00:02:52.627
So is it the same as worry?
00:02:53.643 --> 00:02:55.448
I don't think a lot of people think of it as worry.
00:02:55.467 --> 00:02:56.371
Well, I was thinking about it.
00:02:56.371 --> 00:03:04.068
I was looking at different definitions and there are enough variability there that I kind of equate it with worry, but it's sort of a repetitive kind of worry.
00:03:04.068 --> 00:03:15.008
It's a repetitive thinking, right and when I was thinking about it, because I ruminate a lot and oftentimes it is associated with anxiety but not exclusively so.
00:03:15.008 --> 00:03:23.699
There are times when I just ruminate, ruminate, ruminate, but it doesn't really have those feelings of anxiety or fear or upset that typically.
00:03:24.581 --> 00:03:30.318
Well, when you mention that, I'm curious, though if you choose to stop ruminating, would that make you anxious?
00:03:30.318 --> 00:03:33.026
Well, I'm out here writing Because that's what the anxiety is.
00:03:33.026 --> 00:03:37.146
The rumination is you're thinking you're solving a problem.
00:03:37.388 --> 00:03:38.741
Well, perhaps so.
00:03:38.741 --> 00:03:42.390
For example, whatever I have travel, in the future.
00:03:42.471 --> 00:03:42.912
I ruminate.
00:03:43.161 --> 00:03:46.479
I'm just constantly thinking about the travel itself Worst case scenarios.
00:03:46.479 --> 00:03:50.383
Well, no, I'm just thinking about oh, I got to get on the airplane, or oh, I got to get in the car.
00:03:50.525 --> 00:03:51.167
And what do I need?
00:03:51.639 --> 00:03:53.567
And then, sorry, I'm not thinking about what do I need, where are we going to go?
00:03:53.567 --> 00:03:57.931
And sometimes it's not even those kinds of problem-solving things.
00:03:57.931 --> 00:04:06.604
Sometimes it just pops in my head oh, we're going to be traveling Saturday morning, oh, we're going to be traveling Saturday morning, and it just sort of continually pops into my head, even when I'm trying to think about something else.
00:04:06.604 --> 00:04:09.302
It just pops in there so somewhere in my brain.
00:04:09.503 --> 00:04:10.545
But you're list-making.
00:04:10.727 --> 00:04:15.930
Most times I will say Sometimes in my brain, Something in my brain is just saying oh, there's something here that you better be aware of.
00:04:15.930 --> 00:04:29.728
So I'll just and I think most of these worries, anxieties, ruminating, you know it takes advantage of our brain's safety mechanism, where we evolve to be always wary of things that might be threatening to us in the environment.
00:04:30.201 --> 00:04:34.483
So, if it's something that's it really is something that's out of the ordinary, something that's a little different.
00:04:34.483 --> 00:04:38.141
I think that I tend to ruminate about I don't know.
00:04:38.141 --> 00:04:59.728
I have to think about it more and maybe analyze it more as I'm going through it, I don't know that not ruminating or stopping to think about or trying to stop the ruminating, whether that makes me feel anxious or not, okay so I know a friend of mine who has just been working with a therapist calls it obsessive thinking.
00:04:59.728 --> 00:05:02.254
Yes, same, thing, same.
00:05:02.254 --> 00:05:02.454
Thing.
00:05:03.279 --> 00:05:18.651
So you're caught in this chain, this loop of just thinking about the same thing over and, over and over again, and I think what you were talking about is when you have this thought that keeps coming up, then your brain has been, your brain is tricking you.
00:05:18.651 --> 00:05:20.406
I don't want to say you are tricking your brain.
00:05:20.406 --> 00:05:25.089
Your brain has tricked you into thinking that you are problem solving.
00:05:25.391 --> 00:05:29.468
Yeah, and that's the same thing with worries of worry rumination very, very, very similar.
00:05:29.468 --> 00:05:33.608
So your brain thinks, oh, you must be problem solving.
00:05:33.608 --> 00:05:42.612
Right, but in reality you're just flipping through this thought over and over again without actually sitting down and trying to figure out how to solve this problem, or facing the problem, or whatever.
00:05:43.180 --> 00:05:44.887
Or it's a problem that is not solvable for me.
00:05:45.319 --> 00:05:51.629
And then so you sort of feel like, oh, I must be solving this problem, or thinking over and over, again and again, and that somehow absolves you of feeling anxious.
00:05:51.629 --> 00:05:55.812
Okay, because you don't feel anxious, because, oh, I must be solving this problem.
00:05:55.812 --> 00:06:09.487
Well, and for me, part of my rumination, I think, is due to the fact that over time, sometimes when I'm ruminating, thinking a thing over and over again, sometimes something that does pop into my head actually helps me solve a problem.
00:06:09.487 --> 00:06:14.045
Like, oh, we're traveling, I better make sure I fill up the tank with gas tomorrow morning.
00:06:14.045 --> 00:06:15.369
Right, the tank was empty.
00:06:15.369 --> 00:06:16.831
So like, oh well, that's a reward.
00:06:16.932 --> 00:06:23.543
Right and then my brain says oh, you better keep doing this, because you'll come up with another problem to solve.
00:06:26.060 --> 00:06:32.040
So I would like to talk about if you think that's enough groundwork for you know, like an explanation of what it is.
00:06:32.521 --> 00:06:40.951
Well, I would also say that a lot of times the rumination does come with anxiety, yes, and fear and all those things, and it makes me jerk like ah.
00:06:41.293 --> 00:06:43.257
Right and I would guess for my rumination.
00:06:43.257 --> 00:06:48.112
Mostly my rumination is about in the past.
00:06:48.112 --> 00:06:49.375
It has been relationship related.
00:06:49.394 --> 00:06:54.598
Well, I know, sometimes we come back from family gatherings and you would ruminate for literally weeks, yeah, weeks.
00:06:54.738 --> 00:07:01.105
Trying to figure out how I could have done things different so that it didn't end up a train wreck, and the other thing that I would.
00:07:01.105 --> 00:07:14.387
I'm a highly organized person, and so if there's an event or something like that that I am organizing, I tend to ruminate the details, so I had the, and I think you do that with travel in particular.
00:07:14.608 --> 00:07:15.935
There's a checklist and I'm always.
00:07:15.935 --> 00:07:21.478
There's always something new that can be added on to the checklist, to the point that I'm like organizing toothpicks, you know.
00:07:21.478 --> 00:07:24.985
I mean it can become absolutely ridiculous.
00:07:25.105 --> 00:07:29.345
Well, yeah, and for me, as it relates to travel, I'm like, okay, is this going to change my time?
00:07:29.345 --> 00:07:33.189
Motion preparation in the morning like fixing breakfast I can't get my coffee at the same time?
00:07:33.209 --> 00:07:38.235
Okay, do I get my eggs and then put on the counter, or do I get my milk and put on the counter first?
00:07:38.896 --> 00:07:40.785
And like it's like really weird stuff.
00:07:40.785 --> 00:08:02.976
Like, just like I'm going through this checklist, I'll take a step here, I'll put this there, and like there's no need for that, even if I do it out of order, I take an extra half a second, but the brain is just going there ruminating with it, right, and so I think what I'd like to talk about is how that impacts maybe your life and maybe your relationships.
00:08:02.976 --> 00:08:06.726
Well, for me, rumination, it's something that's hard to get out of my head?
00:08:06.975 --> 00:08:07.716
Oh, absolutely.
00:08:07.737 --> 00:08:10.184
Even the conscious, awake part of my life.
00:08:10.184 --> 00:08:12.718
You tend to ruminate a lot, you know, in the middle of the night.
00:08:13.259 --> 00:08:15.084
Oh, I don't, mine's in the day, but go ahead.
00:08:15.105 --> 00:08:18.653
But you know, when I'm ruminating it's hard for me to focus on like what you're saying.
00:08:18.653 --> 00:08:21.422
Right, because my brain tends to go to this ruminating spot.
00:08:21.461 --> 00:08:24.139
If there's something that's pending, whether it's you know.
00:08:24.139 --> 00:08:45.221
To me it's usually things that are not part of the run of the mill, they're out of the ordinary, whether it's travel, a presentation, somebody I'm meeting, you know, anything that's a little different is what I tend to ruminate about, and so when those thoughts just keep popping up, I can't focus on what you're saying, what we're doing, and so it tends to make me more distant, less attentive to you.
00:08:45.221 --> 00:08:49.979
Okay, and then that is the way that it has an impact on relationships as well.
00:08:49.979 --> 00:08:55.518
If it's accompanied by anxiety, then you're going to feed off and get triggered by my anxiety.
00:08:55.618 --> 00:09:07.778
Right, all for no reason, really, yes, well, and anytime a person is anxious, nervous, worried, afraid, that's going to make you short-tempered, it's going to make you less tolerant.
00:09:07.778 --> 00:09:11.994
Sure, and those are the areas where it impacts those around you.
00:09:11.994 --> 00:09:16.173
So you may think, well, this is all going on in my head, so it shouldn't impact anybody else.
00:09:16.173 --> 00:09:28.274
But you don't understand frequently especially if you live with somebody that's a really sensitive person that the energy that you are putting off around this ruminating is having an impact on others.
00:09:28.475 --> 00:09:29.477
Well, I always think about.
00:09:29.477 --> 00:09:32.765
I think it was the last time I did a bodybuilding contest.
00:09:32.846 --> 00:09:33.047
Okay.
00:09:33.274 --> 00:09:35.542
Well, the preparation for that is sort of meticulous.
00:09:35.842 --> 00:09:36.504
Oh gosh, yes.
00:09:36.585 --> 00:09:38.998
The timing is really, really important.
00:09:38.998 --> 00:09:40.059
You can't miss time.
00:09:40.059 --> 00:09:45.599
You're conditioning by a week or a day or whatever, and so I was constantly ruminating.
00:09:45.599 --> 00:09:48.063
And I think in retrospect.
00:09:48.063 --> 00:09:57.057
You said you are so distant because I'm constantly ruminating about all the details of it, so I was not there for probably four months.
00:09:57.057 --> 00:10:01.147
Yes, it was a long time and then really in reality there was no need for that.
00:10:01.147 --> 00:10:02.783
Because, everything was taken care of.
00:10:02.844 --> 00:10:03.366
I had it all.
00:10:03.366 --> 00:10:04.009
You're doing it all.
00:10:04.009 --> 00:10:04.774
Anyway, I'm doing it all.
00:10:04.955 --> 00:10:06.479
So why do I have to constantly go back?
00:10:06.479 --> 00:10:14.976
My brain revisits that literally continually throughout the day, and then I can't even carry on a conversation with you because I'm off in my head.
00:10:15.256 --> 00:10:17.523
Making sure that I'm drinking three glasses of milk a day.
00:10:17.562 --> 00:10:30.865
Whatever the step was, yeah, and I feel like that was probably the most noticeable rumination period in my life for me to remember and recall what sort of rumination was all about.
00:10:32.336 --> 00:10:32.736
For me.
00:10:32.736 --> 00:11:07.351
I think, again, going back to the list making and the being prepared and liking things in order, I find that, especially, let's say, family trips, even when you and I travel together, I think I've gotten the help, I've gotten better, but that need for that need to feel like you're not forgetting something that seems like it is of the ultimate importance Again, can, I think, tended to make me short-tempered and controlling you know I'm gonna get it all right.
00:11:07.393 --> 00:11:08.480
You don't want to write anything, right?
00:11:08.639 --> 00:11:25.884
And so anybody's, if they're challenging, if they're not doing it your way, if it's, if they don't understand that there's a method in your mind that that you become short-tempered and other people don't understand, and so that can create a lot of friction and misunderstanding in that situation and it's.
00:11:25.884 --> 00:11:35.846
It's just important, I think, to be aware if that is your inclination is to slip into this, overthinking, repetitive thinking.
00:11:36.126 --> 00:11:43.690
I like that you said inclination, because I think, like everything that we talk about, some people are more inclined, yes, to ruminate than others, and I'm not sure that it's definite.
00:11:43.690 --> 00:11:54.249
I'm not sure what type of personality right person is more likely to do it or not, but the reality is most all of us ruminate from one time to another.
00:11:54.308 --> 00:11:56.192
It's not necessarily a healthy thing.
00:11:56.192 --> 00:12:03.179
So we've talked a little about a rumination is how it can impact your life and the life of those around you in the relationships.
00:12:03.179 --> 00:12:08.679
Is there anything you can do about this, because this seems to be a built-in feature of the well human brain.
00:12:08.679 --> 00:12:09.825
Yeah, I know, can you?
00:12:09.825 --> 00:12:10.769
Can you stop it?
00:12:10.769 --> 00:12:11.673
Can you lessen it?
00:12:11.673 --> 00:12:12.820
What can you do about it?
00:12:12.940 --> 00:12:18.451
Well, I think you know an acceptance and understanding of the fact that this is.
00:12:18.451 --> 00:12:21.767
You are wired Like a lot of things we talk about in your brain.
00:12:21.767 --> 00:12:25.759
This is a basic wiring of your brain like I said, it's a survival mechanism.
00:12:25.779 --> 00:12:26.201
It's a feature.
00:12:26.201 --> 00:12:27.304
It's a feature.
00:12:27.325 --> 00:12:41.836
It's not a glitch, it's gone haywire or can have gone haywire, and so I think the first thing in my mind is just having this acceptance and Understanding, instead of being, oh you know, darn it, I'm always stuck in my bad thoughts or whatever.
00:12:41.836 --> 00:12:43.159
I think just an acceptance.
00:12:43.159 --> 00:12:45.245
Oh, that's my body taking care of me.
00:12:45.525 --> 00:12:47.171
Mm-hmm, that's a good way to think of it.
00:12:47.250 --> 00:12:54.734
Yes, how, how can I assure myself and my mind that I don't need to do this at this time, that I can think of something else?
00:12:54.734 --> 00:13:05.860
And I think, in accepting that this is this, this safety feature, I think, makes it easier than to employ some of the mindfulness techniques and techniques that we have talked about in the past.
00:13:05.860 --> 00:13:11.787
And, like you said when we started, I don't think you're ever, if you're inclined to this, I don't think you're ever gonna be free of it.
00:13:11.787 --> 00:13:15.700
But I know in my own mind I have lessened it by probably 60%.
00:13:16.140 --> 00:13:24.144
Sure, and I think, I think the record, the acceptance of it, is the key thing, because, just like when you start meditation and you notice your mind wandering, right.
00:13:24.144 --> 00:13:27.533
And you bring it back to what's your, your focus or your anchor is.
00:13:27.533 --> 00:13:28.482
It's the very same thing.
00:13:28.482 --> 00:13:29.626
Is all of a sudden you recognize?
00:13:29.767 --> 00:13:33.799
Oh, oh, there, I am doing this ruminating or, oh, I'm overthinking this again.
00:13:34.302 --> 00:13:48.913
Let's go back to what I was doing, whether it's having a conversation, or even watching a TV show, right, reading a book, whatever just try to gently bring yourself back to what it is you would rather be doing, right, I think you know practice, and practice is just gonna eventually make your brain gets it.
00:13:48.913 --> 00:13:55.259
Your brain gets it like we said if you're, if you're truly inclined to this, I don't think you ever get rid of no, but you can lessen it, get out of it.
00:13:55.259 --> 00:13:57.307
I think more often and and for myself.
00:13:57.486 --> 00:14:12.029
I just got in a habit once I've recognized some of these repetitive mindful mind behaviors, these brain function behaviors as Well, as soon as the recognition and awareness came up, I would stop and say what would I rather be thinking about?
00:14:12.530 --> 00:14:18.148
and that to me was it was a great exit line like I could okay, I'd rather be thinking about ice cream, like it couldn't be anything.
00:14:18.148 --> 00:14:30.647
But as soon as I physically and literally mentally, across the board, make that recognition and Ask my mind to choose another path, it's, it stops.
00:14:30.647 --> 00:14:32.121
In that moment it stops.
00:14:32.261 --> 00:14:43.700
I have a little mantra that I've been using over the last year, year and a half, that that helps, and I just when I find myself because usually it's you, usually the rumination for I know your rumination was about the past right a lot.
00:14:43.700 --> 00:14:44.745
How did I say this?
00:14:44.745 --> 00:14:46.011
Why did I offend them?
00:14:46.011 --> 00:14:47.620
How can, how could I solve this right?
00:14:47.620 --> 00:14:49.566
Mine tend to be future, right, right.
00:14:49.566 --> 00:14:53.616
So my mantra is okay, right here, right now, and I try to.
00:14:53.616 --> 00:14:54.600
I try to bring myself back.
00:14:54.600 --> 00:14:55.722
Yes, here and now.
00:14:55.722 --> 00:14:56.625
What am I feeling?
00:14:56.625 --> 00:14:58.048
What am I seeing?
00:14:58.469 --> 00:14:59.692
right what is my body sent?
00:14:59.692 --> 00:15:01.466
What are my bodily sensations that are going on?
00:15:01.466 --> 00:15:05.320
Try to bring myself back into the moment instead of projecting into the future right.
00:15:05.320 --> 00:15:08.750
Thinking about all the things that I need to do in the list I need to make right.
00:15:09.881 --> 00:15:15.884
And in that instance, in my preparing and organizing for events and stuff, I tell myself I am prepared.
00:15:15.884 --> 00:15:18.851
Whatever it is I need, I am prepared in this moment.
00:15:18.851 --> 00:15:26.360
And and Again, it doesn't matter what saying you come up with, it's the fact that you've caught yourself in that cycle.
00:15:26.500 --> 00:15:26.802
Catching.
00:15:26.861 --> 00:15:30.820
it's the key, it's the catching it and the asking your brain to think about something else, right?
00:15:31.321 --> 00:15:31.581
Well, this is.
00:15:31.581 --> 00:15:53.211
You know, this is a deep topic, you're very deep I think it's something that almost everybody, I want to say, suffers from it, and so, as we sort of Wind up here, I just wanted to ask, as I'm going to repeatedly do in the coming weeks, you know, if you like our show, if there are things that are valuable to you, we ask you to subscribe on whatever podcast platform you use, whether it's Apple.
00:15:57.039 --> 00:15:57.687
Spotify.
00:15:57.768 --> 00:15:58.960
Spotify Stitcher.
00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:05.028
Please, please, please, like and subscribe like and subscribe, so until next time.
00:16:05.028 --> 00:16:07.272
This has been just one thing,