Jack Martin Phone Calls

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Operator. I was taking from nine four to three six
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nine four nine. I have an emergency call from mister
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Rick Connelly at five two three one nine two two.
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The line is b Why he just called my house
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on an emergency. I'm trying to return the call on
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an emergency. Will you please put me through? Fine? Hello,
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wreck h you called my house. I just now got in.
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Your line was busy, so I had the operator interrupted.
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Yeah, well, I was just dialing out. I wasn't talk.
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Oh uh, well, I just wanted to say that I
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that our something has come up very important and I've
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got I'm on my way to back Ruge in about
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ten minutes. Ye, right, will you make this tomorrow? How
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did you like your trip to? Uh, what's the Tree
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Point or Lafayette?
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What are you talking about?
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Oh my spice told me you took him out a
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trip today.
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Is that right?
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Yeah? That is fi.
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Yeah, yeah, I've I've got seen that by that.
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Somebody think when will you be back?
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I'm back?
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Uh, probably not going the morning.
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Well, don't make me mickey mouse me around kid like
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I already got something to say.
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You know, No, I I'm not, and I I want.
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Have you talked to Aaron Conn. I want you to
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have you talked to Aaron Conn. Oh I have Well,
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I'm not only gonna talk to you.
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Uh.
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Now, you might be wanting to meet somebody, but they
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can wait downstairs in another room.
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Well, I want I wanna be I don't.
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I don't pomp for you, but I want.
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To talk to you.
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I want you to talk to the other party either
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after or what have.
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You think you got?
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Well, there's no Mickey mosson here, you know?
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Well, I but I had also preferred to set you out.
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You don't wanna meet my meet me and my house?
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Uh I I first meet yours?
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Well, yeah, how you can shake the joint time? No? No, alright,
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I'll meet you where right now? Right now? Where do
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you wanna meet me?
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Uh?
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Let's make it tenderly new? I say tenderly all that you.
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Say, what a new?
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And that's tomorrow? Got that far? I said, right now?
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Oh no, don't, Uh I I can't, Yeah, I got
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I got.
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I canna say ten minutes, I'm driving out of town,
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driving out of town? Went at your fly? Right cause?
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Huh in this case that I'm got it? Well, I
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got a couple of the only goal airplanes. I'll fly
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where you wanna go. Uh.
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But I but I want I wanna meet you. I
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wanna talk to you, but I want.
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To do it on on. Uh. Well who do you
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want me to meet? H huh No, I lined up
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to 'em. I lined up two witnesses today for it,
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Sheridan and talking. Yeah. Well I figured that's who it was, right, Uh,
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I knew he was in town. Uh. Also, Uh, I
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lined up, I lined up two witnesses for you. Yeah,
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and the other guy. I'm gonna have to get a
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hold of l d see.
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At any rate.
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I I can't see it to night because there's other thing.
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I'll not make it out again. But what about ten
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o'clock eleven o'clock in the morning.
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Uh, Walter's got to stuff set up for a livene
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as it stand.
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That's why I wanted. Well, well, look, my house is
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a clop jack. The joint you can turn around, you
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can look it over, and there's not a bug in
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a joint.
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I I still I think for everybody is a uh
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in a in a mutual spot.
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And then you know where we are all right in
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uh church Lee? Expecially? Word is that rough? You know? Yeah?
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Your God, yeah, I dig I'll beat you in church
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leaves and it worked.
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Okay, and uh well let's see, let's make it at
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noon and the uh what.
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About the rings?
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I well mean, don I'll tell you, well, let's not
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make that's not the sad cause I I wanna make
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sure Walter in the spring, you know.
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And then he's got the eleven o'clock Thames. Yeah, so
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what I call you about eleven or so and then
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we'll we'll tell you worth it alright. Now, I'll be
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here at the house alright, alright, Uh, you call me twice,
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hang up and ring back. I let it ring twice.
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Let it ring twise right, or just let it ring.
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Once and then call back and ring a game. Okay,
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that's good.
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I will call you. Let I let the phone ring
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twist and hang up. I'll call you back then, all right,
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I'll call you somewhere around eleven o'clock.
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All right, Look, well I had the reason I don't
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like to meet you up there at the Royal Orleans.
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I know two or three outfits that, in fact, one
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of them used to be Sun and Research used to
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spike Mike the damn with dollars, walls and everything. Else,
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got a lot of what we can Well, I got
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a radio, I got television. See when I talked to
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you today, I turned up the radio tonight.
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I think we got to talk.
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All right, I'll call you eleven and uh we'll take
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a please that Well, see about five five thirty six o'clock,
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I was Steve. It was Steve Black and I talked
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to him again. Did he tell you well, I talked
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to Aaron this morning, talk to him, told him what
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I was gonna do. Yeah. Uh uh, if you're.
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Straight, did you got us at least to pick.
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Tail or something?
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Oh, I mean I just uh, everybody promises you back me.
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You know what's problem? Well, I mean I uh, I
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got some I mean the other the words. I don't
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wanna be standing out there, like I told you, like
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I saw a thrumb. You know, well, I don't know.
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I why I gotta make up, if I gotta make
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a bond, If I got I need a lawyer, I
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I got it, you know. Yeah, I had to talk
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to some people. Be sure. I had a little you know,
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somebody gonna I'm I'm not gonna stand up there by
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Jack Martin.
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Yeah, well, I just talk about all that want, but
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uh doesn't tell you about that a sea.
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At that point? Oh, wo'd you ry? How would you
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like to readly scream hopes that?
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Well, uh, if there is a hope that, uh, I'd
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like to scream hopes there you laughed about that?
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Yeah, you know?
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At just why kind of that?
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The way it stand? Okay, we will talk to you tomorrow.
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I'll call you ale.
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Well, I don't wanna talk in your current I don't
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know that. And uh, if I go to a restaurant
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and you're a choice, how do I know? How do
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I know it's not another Jamaican is leave me? We'll
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pick a place that uh that everybody will used alright,
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I don't know, I know half a dozen joints in
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time in their bug. Yeah.
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Well, yeah, well I think.
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You decide that at the point that everybody, uh.
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Everybody is alright, I Waller Sharton's gonna pick up the
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uh the meat time? Uh uh? Where is he gonna
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buy lunch? We will we will buy your lunch. Well
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hell no, yeah, alright, we'll flip for the check. We'll
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flip for the check as long as somebody else pays
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for it. I don't care. I'll tell you I'll say,
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well I and I will with other all right, huh, okay, okay,
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I'll tell you alright by bay.
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Yeah, he'll receive it is in shortly.
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Okay. Uh, I think fake of the man. And he
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said that he would take him.
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See what the hell and holding things up?
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Well, now what if we wire me for some somebody's
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gonna help to follow me in the car to pick
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it up because it won't carricrate for it, right, that's right?
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And then one lady that I have to think of it.
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I would be a telephonie. Oh, how did something guys? Uh,
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mister rick Ton ho the part mister rick Town will
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in the news room, that's yeah.
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Uh.
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This last tam, this last used to attempt to reach
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rick Town where he took you at issue was a success?
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Was take or twenty six May nineteen sixty seven, writing
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an approximate league and repic and in the three so.
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Uh just uh you know the kind of a meeting
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of that wrong or that anything?
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Oh, I tell you, I can't find wrong here right now?
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A lot of sorry.
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He had eleven o'clock.
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Appointment and then I've done it.
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You know that you thought he would be tied up
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beyond No, but I we've been missing each other, not
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having anything.
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Well, those things happened. I I tried to call your
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uh office and there was no uh. Uh you hadn't
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been around. They didn't even know what you were back
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in town yet. Yeah. Subsequently, I took the privilege of
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asking the lady that I answered the phone there at
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the studio. Well, I said, would he be a per
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sort of number that you gave him a wife? Last
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meet you? Uh? No, I wasn't the the so she said,
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well that she's small, but I didn't even know you. Yeah. Uh,
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I'm not checking you. Uh. I didn't even bother the
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look in the book, you know, So I uh I
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call that no answer so I I uh I. I
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had asked her, if you call uh, just me the message.
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Done book uh. So I ought to be able to
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get hold of him, uh him the next time, Argy, Well,
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that's alright, look god ta thirty ago.
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Yeah, that's alright. Uh, I mean half, after all, you've
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got to live and to.
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Make you well, my schedule in really my own at
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this point, guy.
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I understand there the other out, I understand that.
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So uh as soon as I get hold of him,
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we'll give you a call and got to get together, alright.
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Uh it looks like it.
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Yeah, I can't get hold of him.
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You know why, say liven atb like twelve fifteen or so.
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I don't wanna hang you up when you're not.
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To be well, that's alright. I haven't got a hell
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of a lot to do this morning until two or
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three o'clock anyway, because my little boy's home. Uh uh
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the school that I uh yesterday, the the boy attars
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and uh yeah, he doesn't easily up down to meet
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his mother about to or so, and he'll go by himself.
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He's old enough that you mention. So I'm I'm I'm
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free anyway I can Uh. Uh is the extent that
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to uh, I'm at your disposal. I'll just wait till
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I hear from me, alright. If it's two o'clock one thirty,
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it's uh, it's one of those things. Uh, you've got
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problems to it, right, I'm not frustrated a way out here, Okay,
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I think alright, I'll be waiting to hear from you
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by bye.
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Uh the.
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Fast transpen once that number crime eight two right number
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night by Ricky Man a.
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Front number thirty, twenty sixty eight, eighteen sixty seven.
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See what you be, Broda? You can impossible?
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Time is so tight right.
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Now, that's just disincredible.
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So why do you meet you at?
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Uh?
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Can you put you right now? Can you get out
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of the house?
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Well? Yeah, all I gotta do is put out a shirt.
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So it turned out that TV I can hardly hear
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of the four right?
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Why did I meet you at twelve thirty? At that
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wall gains on?
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Uh? Last seventy nine? Uh well alright, UH tell you
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what but you said? Alright? Uh was that particularly hungry anyway?
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Uh that's a kind of chronic spot. Yeah. Well let's see. Uh,
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I've meet you over in uh Victor's Uh. Uh that's
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try tu fix s pretty brought it to it.
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Uh.
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So you know I don't wanna I don't I don't
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wanna put you there inconvenience either.
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Well that's that part of may. Uh.
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Well, I have to say it won't take two anywhere?
248
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Yeh uh.
249
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Le's there.
250
00:12:20.840 --> 00:12:22.399
H Let's say it this way. Uh.
251
00:12:23.240 --> 00:12:25.360
Uh I think I buy a cab pick you up.
252
00:12:26.080 --> 00:12:30.159
Alright, No, that's okay with me. That's uh that's real cool. Uh,
253
00:12:30.679 --> 00:12:32.919
it'll take me upbout five minutes to put on a
254
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shirt and a tie. That's all a By the.
255
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Time I get a cab and get over there, it's
256
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gonna be proply twenty nine age, but I'll make I'll
257
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take you up.
258
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Find your place by money, al right. Now it's at
259
00:12:42.159 --> 00:12:46.559
the corner of Esplanade in North Prayer. Yeah, and uh
260
00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:51.320
it's uh there's a marital cleaning shop right on the corner.
261
00:12:52.440 --> 00:12:55.879
Let's say, let's see it's uh my montal clocks, it's
262
00:12:56.000 --> 00:13:01.159
seven after twelve. Now, you should be here about about
263
00:13:01.200 --> 00:13:04.480
twelve thirty twelve thirty five anyway, so i'll be I'll
264
00:13:04.559 --> 00:13:06.440
try to stand out in front of the joint out there,
265
00:13:06.519 --> 00:13:08.559
and you'll see me. I'll be wearing a black suit
266
00:13:08.600 --> 00:13:12.919
as usual, okay, and a white shirt and uh I'll
267
00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:17.519
be bury head and wearing sun glasses. Okay, alright, okay, alright,
268
00:13:22.000 --> 00:13:27.960
Uh now, Rick, Rick, I'm been trying to reach you. Yeah.
269
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Matter of fact, I slept a little after Yeah, you're
270
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a pullestman off the book, right. Uh well, look I
271
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thought over a uh great deal of of what we
272
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spoke of yesterday, and perhaps I'm a little heart ass,
273
00:13:40.279 --> 00:13:46.000
but look, uh you know way it's a one way
274
00:13:46.039 --> 00:13:49.879
street operation, you know, I mean, uh to the extent that, uh,
275
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I know you're gonna uh you let me know you're
276
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gonna use the uh probably the secret service report. And
277
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it's uh, you don't leave me much choice. I I
278
00:13:58.679 --> 00:14:00.519
don't know that at all. I mean, I mean, I
279
00:14:00.600 --> 00:14:02.679
gotta go with you. But here's here's what I was
280
00:14:02.960 --> 00:14:05.759
uh uh you know, uh, only thing I'm actually fetching
281
00:14:05.840 --> 00:14:09.960
for is some assurance or protection uh uh And and
282
00:14:10.039 --> 00:14:15.600
I think you could appreciate, uh uh the edgy situation.
283
00:14:15.759 --> 00:14:17.679
And I'm incidentally if you hear a noise in the
284
00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:19.960
background as my para key, he's over there, yap and
285
00:14:20.039 --> 00:14:24.039
he said off this morning. He's a happy bird. H Oh,
286
00:14:24.080 --> 00:14:24.879
I can understand.
287
00:14:25.240 --> 00:14:29.320
H and uh I think, uh I you just got.
288
00:14:29.240 --> 00:14:31.159
To well to tell me. You know here, you see,
289
00:14:31.200 --> 00:14:33.440
I've had guys uh over the period of the five
290
00:14:33.600 --> 00:14:36.440
five last five or six months especially, use a hell
291
00:14:36.480 --> 00:14:38.600
of a lot of pressure on me. And and I, uh,
292
00:14:39.480 --> 00:14:42.840
being my age fifty three, perhaps I'm a bit paranoiac,
293
00:14:42.960 --> 00:14:47.120
you know, uh the extent that uh I anticipate pressure
294
00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:49.120
when perhaps it isn't there. Even more so in a
295
00:14:49.200 --> 00:14:52.320
lot of people. Uh uh you tell me you've got
296
00:14:52.320 --> 00:14:54.480
a lot of strength that other people have gone along
297
00:14:54.519 --> 00:14:56.399
with you, or how do I know by the same
298
00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:59.120
talking that you're not using me? And then you might
299
00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:00.919
get some other people. I don't know, you see what
300
00:15:01.000 --> 00:15:03.960
I mean. I mean, uh, it's a it's a very
301
00:15:04.159 --> 00:15:06.440
I've had some pretty smooth ones pulled. I mean, let's
302
00:15:06.480 --> 00:15:10.799
face it, you know, and uh uh, I don't know
303
00:15:10.840 --> 00:15:12.759
whether you're talking to mister Sheridan or not. I don't
304
00:15:12.759 --> 00:15:14.840
even know whether he's in the city or not. Right,
305
00:15:15.159 --> 00:15:19.799
but uh uh uh, I don't know what he said.
306
00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:23.759
That's some material. But by the text of our conversation yesterday,
307
00:15:23.799 --> 00:15:25.399
I've been I've been up most of the night. I've
308
00:15:25.399 --> 00:15:26.960
been doing a lot of thinking. I lost a little
309
00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:30.799
sleep over it. And uh I figured, well, elly, uh,
310
00:15:31.799 --> 00:15:33.960
I either go with him or they they're gonna gonna
311
00:15:34.080 --> 00:15:36.039
cut me to pieces, just as a matter of deciding
312
00:15:36.080 --> 00:15:37.840
which way I'm gonna get crucified here.
313
00:15:37.960 --> 00:15:39.360
You know that is true.
314
00:15:39.440 --> 00:15:41.200
It is And I don't want to leave you at
315
00:15:41.240 --> 00:15:43.240
that impression. Well, you know, I don't want you to
316
00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:45.440
go on that face. Well that's about what it A
317
00:15:45.559 --> 00:15:47.480
monster then, non the less, let's face it. You know,
318
00:15:49.519 --> 00:15:52.360
what I was hoping was that perhaps we could get
319
00:15:52.399 --> 00:15:55.879
together and at least uh, damn it, if you say
320
00:15:55.919 --> 00:15:57.840
you've got some good ammunition, you might let me see
321
00:15:57.919 --> 00:15:59.399
some film clips or some damn things.
322
00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:00.360
Do that?
323
00:16:01.240 --> 00:16:04.919
Do it? You gonna have to take my word on that. Well,
324
00:16:05.000 --> 00:16:07.279
let's just just this. See it's just a it's a
325
00:16:07.399 --> 00:16:10.679
it's a matter of it's a matter of uh uh
326
00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:15.360
the word and it's it and that's it, you know.
327
00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:18.960
In other words, Uh, if at least me hanging that. Yah,
328
00:16:19.639 --> 00:16:21.759
I've gone to great extent last night. I've been going
329
00:16:21.799 --> 00:16:23.840
through a lot of my own files them and uh
330
00:16:23.879 --> 00:16:26.399
I've I've got a whole bunch of stuff on putting,
331
00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:33.240
pulling out, documenting, you know. And uh, well that tells
332
00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:36.759
you the main thing that I wanted to do things
333
00:16:37.919 --> 00:16:41.080
to help with the thinking the beginning of all this
334
00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:44.879
matter of perspecting that the you know, the main thing
335
00:16:46.120 --> 00:16:51.399
that's not gonna require a great deal of anything. Uh
336
00:16:54.519 --> 00:17:01.840
matter of fact, Uh you know, uh fairly, my partner,
337
00:17:02.519 --> 00:17:09.000
mean everybody, it's something that's uh no, let's say in
338
00:17:09.559 --> 00:17:12.400
one respect, you these knows from the standpoint the way
339
00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:15.279
to say the service or not well, uh, if you
340
00:17:15.519 --> 00:17:18.079
if you read that thing there, you see, here's the thing.
341
00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:21.559
If I if you use that in any respect, that's gonna.
342
00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:25.200
It's gonna. It's a it's a wound that's that's healed
343
00:17:25.240 --> 00:17:27.799
over partially in the past six months. If you reopen
344
00:17:27.880 --> 00:17:34.000
that goddamn thing it Uh believe me as uh people
345
00:17:34.039 --> 00:17:37.000
will not believe that the Secret Service is capable of laying.
346
00:17:37.599 --> 00:17:39.440
But if you have seen these people and seen what
347
00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:43.440
happened here, and could hear what I had at the
348
00:17:43.519 --> 00:17:48.160
time when uh, and there were people in the house
349
00:17:48.480 --> 00:17:52.400
besides myself in my life that heard and saw what
350
00:17:52.519 --> 00:17:56.160
went on, and uh it was not like uh even
351
00:17:56.240 --> 00:17:59.519
Reaches Kennedy or what uh Rice or Carrots said at all.
352
00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:02.920
It wasn't the way it happened. They brought up the
353
00:18:03.000 --> 00:18:06.359
telephone ask and I said, I told Red just I said,
354
00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:09.599
you said it. I did not. Those are not my words.
355
00:18:10.400 --> 00:18:12.880
I do not deny anything. And I said, well, look
356
00:18:12.920 --> 00:18:14.839
I can see right now we're not kidding anywhere. And
357
00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:16.759
I opened the door and they left and and as
358
00:18:16.839 --> 00:18:19.000
I'm standing up by the car, I closed the door
359
00:18:19.079 --> 00:18:24.240
and told him again, and they drove off, and damn
360
00:18:24.319 --> 00:18:30.000
burden set up anyway, I give him some let us
361
00:18:30.079 --> 00:18:31.880
up there in his cage, and he's man, he's having
362
00:18:31.920 --> 00:18:35.319
him fall in any other parts. He hears him out
363
00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:39.200
through the open door, and are off the balcony fucking
364
00:18:39.279 --> 00:18:40.960
back to him. I guess so well. Anyway, the deal
365
00:18:41.079 --> 00:18:45.839
is that my wife and kiddle me out. This happen,
366
00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:48.839
and I got some newspaper stuff and some other things
367
00:18:48.880 --> 00:18:52.240
here the boys going to a party, school teachers having
368
00:18:52.400 --> 00:18:58.440
for him, and I didn't know any I'll show you
369
00:18:58.519 --> 00:19:00.240
what I got if you wanted to say it, and
370
00:19:01.079 --> 00:19:02.880
I would, I would. I would like to. I would
371
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:05.720
like to know some semblance of what. In other words,
372
00:19:05.759 --> 00:19:07.200
I want to I want I want to insurance in
373
00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:09.759
my mind. I'm looking for peace of mind. Rick that
374
00:19:10.200 --> 00:19:12.839
god damn it that uh uh, I'm not the only guy.
375
00:19:12.839 --> 00:19:14.880
You're gonna have a fair and uh and you're gonna
376
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:16.480
persecute the shit out of him, you know. I I
377
00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:19.079
hate to say that. I I've got a persecution complex,
378
00:19:19.160 --> 00:19:21.200
but I have, and I got good reason to have one.
379
00:19:21.319 --> 00:19:27.359
You know you're gonna be well. Mer Smith, fact, Merriman,
380
00:19:27.759 --> 00:19:30.240
Merriman Smith did a damn good job on me. You
381
00:19:30.359 --> 00:19:32.279
must admit that I mean, and I've been I've been
382
00:19:32.319 --> 00:19:35.839
bit once and uh i'man butchered once. And I just
383
00:19:35.920 --> 00:19:38.599
take like hell to see this thing happen again because
384
00:19:38.640 --> 00:19:41.440
I've I've already, I've I've I've almost lived down what
385
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:45.880
has happened, you see, And uh, you may be the
386
00:19:45.920 --> 00:19:48.359
best thing is just avoid it. You know. I can't
387
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:50.599
tell you. I know, but if you go ahead and
388
00:19:50.759 --> 00:19:54.480
use it over again in my absence, it's gonna make it.
389
00:19:54.559 --> 00:19:57.359
If the record's gonna stand as it is. Well, I
390
00:19:57.960 --> 00:20:01.200
can't say that we're gonna use it. You don't know. Uh,
391
00:20:02.079 --> 00:20:07.279
I don't know what you know, whether it's uh important
392
00:20:07.359 --> 00:20:09.839
to to even bring it up, except that I think
393
00:20:10.920 --> 00:20:13.319
put the whole thing in respectively. Fight. Well, I found
394
00:20:13.359 --> 00:20:15.680
a copy of it. I found a copy of a
395
00:20:15.880 --> 00:20:21.400
singular copy of the old original fairy article, uh that
396
00:20:22.640 --> 00:20:25.799
where he was originally arrested it as the hypnosis the
397
00:20:25.960 --> 00:20:29.160
guns and everything else? Did it? Yes? And all I
398
00:20:29.240 --> 00:20:31.440
did was call that to their attention. Of course, they
399
00:20:31.640 --> 00:20:35.000
ignored and magnified this and put the words in my mouth.
400
00:20:35.039 --> 00:20:38.279
All I did was quote an article to him. In
401
00:20:38.400 --> 00:20:40.480
other words, they quoted me is saying that I hypnot
402
00:20:40.759 --> 00:20:43.279
that I said very hypnotized. Oh, I did not say this.
403
00:20:43.519 --> 00:20:47.559
I said that, uh uh uh. I was just quoting
404
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:49.759
the article or they said he'd done with these juveniles,
405
00:20:49.759 --> 00:20:52.640
which I have a regular uh uh aforece that copy
406
00:20:52.720 --> 00:20:54.759
of that article and also one where he threatened this
407
00:20:54.799 --> 00:20:58.319
boy with the Cubans. You see, but uh, you leave me,
408
00:20:58.519 --> 00:21:00.359
you guys, leave me a little choice. And I know
409
00:21:00.640 --> 00:21:03.559
I know this guy sharing it couldn't uh he's probably
410
00:21:03.680 --> 00:21:07.039
pretty as uh as depth as uh even more so
411
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:11.519
than maybe Marylyn Smith. You know, I I'm not I'm
412
00:21:11.559 --> 00:21:13.519
not trying to leave them pressure doll. I don't know
413
00:21:13.559 --> 00:21:17.160
what they've got me, so I don't don't think you're
414
00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:19.519
trying to use a hammer on it.
415
00:21:19.759 --> 00:21:19.920
You know.
416
00:21:20.160 --> 00:21:22.920
Well, I don't want to come along on that basis.
417
00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:26.000
You know, hear the get the gunning because they well
418
00:21:26.039 --> 00:21:27.759
you got you guys got me sweat and I'll put
419
00:21:27.799 --> 00:21:31.559
it like that, you know, well a lot of people.
420
00:21:31.759 --> 00:21:33.680
But I wouldn't. I would like to. I would if
421
00:21:33.839 --> 00:21:36.200
if I'm if I am allied with other people in
422
00:21:36.319 --> 00:21:40.920
something huh yeah, yeah, I don't everything in the operator
423
00:21:41.000 --> 00:21:43.400
company or something I have not happened. All the time
424
00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:46.200
these idiots set my phone off cause I didn't sleep
425
00:21:46.279 --> 00:21:49.799
one night. Yeah, I probably didn't get locked off. Yeah,
426
00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:52.079
uh well I had to check this morning. When I
427
00:21:52.200 --> 00:21:55.160
try to call you a buddy o'clock nine or well,
428
00:21:55.200 --> 00:21:59.400
the only thing is Rick that I uh uh well,
429
00:21:59.799 --> 00:22:02.119
I mean, I mean, if I have other people allied
430
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:04.759
with me, I would like to. I would like to.
431
00:22:04.920 --> 00:22:07.240
I don't give a damn who the people are, you understand,
432
00:22:07.240 --> 00:22:08.759
I mean, it's just the idea that I like to.
433
00:22:09.079 --> 00:22:11.519
I like to have some assurance that I'm not going
434
00:22:11.559 --> 00:22:17.319
to stand out there all by myself. But I hope
435
00:22:17.359 --> 00:22:20.240
you don't think we go up there. No, but I
436
00:22:20.319 --> 00:22:23.400
have seen guys point one gathering newsbellaw turn around and
437
00:22:23.440 --> 00:22:25.519
then they'll get they'll they'll head you around and they'll
438
00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:28.240
finally get one guy nailed down, say, and then they'll
439
00:22:28.279 --> 00:22:30.359
turn around and they'll they'll bring other people in and
440
00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:32.160
they'll say, well, I've already got so and so on
441
00:22:32.440 --> 00:22:34.599
predicated on that guy. Well, then they get others. See.
442
00:22:34.680 --> 00:22:36.640
I mean, I've seen all kinds of deals made too.
443
00:22:36.759 --> 00:22:40.440
You know, I'm not saying you're doing this, but frankly,
444
00:22:40.599 --> 00:22:43.519
you I don't know of anybody that if we could
445
00:22:43.680 --> 00:22:46.759
use you as a basis forgetting to come on the film.
446
00:22:46.920 --> 00:22:51.319
I mean, because it's we're rather after a different element
447
00:22:51.400 --> 00:22:55.519
of the story totally unrelated to you, or sixty three
448
00:22:55.640 --> 00:22:59.279
things or anything else, most of them. And you just
449
00:22:59.480 --> 00:23:02.480
have to take my word. And I said, I give
450
00:23:02.519 --> 00:23:05.319
you my word. It's all. It's all there, but it's
451
00:23:05.839 --> 00:23:08.039
I don't tell you what it is. I just can't
452
00:23:08.079 --> 00:23:12.400
afford to take them out all my bus phone, don't.
453
00:23:12.480 --> 00:23:14.519
I don't think you. I don't think your phone's buck
454
00:23:14.519 --> 00:23:17.000
because I had mind checked by repair service this morning.
455
00:23:17.079 --> 00:23:20.880
There's a number you can call in it'll and there's
456
00:23:20.920 --> 00:23:25.160
a three nine nine three three five five that's the
457
00:23:25.279 --> 00:23:28.200
phone company. And you ask for the test board for
458
00:23:28.319 --> 00:23:32.720
your exchange, like you've got five two three exchange. You
459
00:23:33.000 --> 00:23:35.839
ask for the test board for that exchange. And he
460
00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:37.839
asked the man to check your line. And they'll tell
461
00:23:37.839 --> 00:23:40.039
you how many condensers. You tell them how many instruments
462
00:23:40.039 --> 00:23:41.640
you have at the house, save you have one or
463
00:23:41.720 --> 00:23:44.119
two telephones at the house. You tell them how many
464
00:23:44.160 --> 00:23:45.599
phones you have at the house, and they'll tell you
465
00:23:45.680 --> 00:23:49.839
how many phones are on that line, and that the
466
00:23:49.920 --> 00:23:51.559
only about the only way they can hit your phone
467
00:23:51.640 --> 00:23:56.160
is a hardware tapping it would show. Say, so I
468
00:23:56.319 --> 00:23:58.960
have mind clerk. Every morning at seven o'clock, that testboard
469
00:23:59.000 --> 00:24:00.880
opens up. You call a number and you talk to
470
00:24:00.880 --> 00:24:02.960
the man on the test board. That's what you ask
471
00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:05.440
for the test board. Give him your exchange, and ask
472
00:24:05.480 --> 00:24:07.359
for the man on the test board for that exchange,
473
00:24:07.599 --> 00:24:09.799
and have him check your line. He called you hang
474
00:24:09.920 --> 00:24:11.880
up for just a second, and he calls you right back,
475
00:24:11.920 --> 00:24:13.839
and he tells you how many instruments are on the line.
476
00:24:15.119 --> 00:24:17.680
So I do that every morning at seven o'clock, and
477
00:24:17.759 --> 00:24:22.519
I do it again about ten, So I constantly check.
478
00:24:22.839 --> 00:24:24.960
And in the morning they don't usually do that. They
479
00:24:25.079 --> 00:24:27.319
usually monitor. They're gonna monitor in the evening. That's when
480
00:24:27.319 --> 00:24:31.119
you gotta watch them, and especially late at night because
481
00:24:31.160 --> 00:24:33.720
that's when there's nobody on the test board after ten
482
00:24:33.799 --> 00:24:36.960
in the evening. So they're gonna pull the Chicaneri they
483
00:24:37.000 --> 00:24:46.880
do it. Then, well, anyway, well my no thing, I jack.
484
00:24:48.000 --> 00:24:50.240
It's aid the phone company is not gonna play good
485
00:24:50.359 --> 00:24:52.839
ball with Garson. I happen to know that anybody's gonna
486
00:24:52.880 --> 00:24:55.359
monitors the FBI and he gonna they're gonna do Garson.
487
00:24:55.400 --> 00:25:00.720
Anything I'll think I can say is that I don't
488
00:25:00.759 --> 00:25:05.440
give the opportunity to explain that uh sixty three business.
489
00:25:05.880 --> 00:25:08.279
And I think you, I think you do it better
490
00:25:08.319 --> 00:25:10.160
than anybody, you know. I think he can put it
491
00:25:10.200 --> 00:25:12.680
in perspective. And uh, that's all I want from I
492
00:25:12.720 --> 00:25:15.000
don't wanna go into all this other stuff. Well you see,
493
00:25:15.039 --> 00:25:17.319
then then it's a round the fifth. I told you
494
00:25:17.960 --> 00:25:19.839
I was. I was one of the initial people he
495
00:25:20.000 --> 00:25:22.960
talked and started a little bit. But but you I
496
00:25:23.000 --> 00:25:27.000
actually haven't had that much except my receieve stuff back
497
00:25:27.079 --> 00:25:29.279
then to other people. Yeah, I have probably had that
498
00:25:29.440 --> 00:25:31.720
much to do as this. Well I haven't. I I
499
00:25:31.799 --> 00:25:35.079
haven't fed anything or anything to them. Yeah, I've talked
500
00:25:35.079 --> 00:25:37.200
to some people that might have been connected with him.
501
00:25:37.240 --> 00:25:39.839
They might have fed it in. But uh, believe me. Uh,
502
00:25:40.200 --> 00:25:42.960
I've talked to Bamba and people like that or help Obama.
503
00:25:43.200 --> 00:25:45.839
He runs hot and cold. Sometimes you like people, sometimes
504
00:25:45.920 --> 00:25:48.559
he doesn't. I don't think Baba is anything. Baba comes
505
00:25:48.599 --> 00:25:51.000
in my house and Bamba has been in here for yeah,
506
00:25:51.640 --> 00:25:54.839
well five five thousand times. But basically you haven't taken
507
00:25:54.920 --> 00:25:58.119
him big part in that thing. Oh no, oh no,
508
00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:02.240
shut now. And I'm not gonna Yeah, I don't want to. Well,
509
00:26:02.920 --> 00:26:04.920
that's that's to be onest. I don't know one I
510
00:26:05.000 --> 00:26:07.799
can army because I I can't. I'm not gonna tell
511
00:26:07.880 --> 00:26:10.839
you or anybody else exactly what we got. That would
512
00:26:10.839 --> 00:26:13.079
be foolish. No, I wouldn't ask you exactly what you have.
513
00:26:13.160 --> 00:26:14.920
But if I can see some smattering of some of
514
00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:17.079
the damn clips. I know you told me the other
515
00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:19.200
day you've got guys in jail suffering this thing out
516
00:26:19.240 --> 00:26:21.319
with Jesus, I mean, uh, then you tell me that
517
00:26:21.519 --> 00:26:23.640
you'll stand behind me, the network will stand behind me.
518
00:26:23.680 --> 00:26:25.599
But yet again I got no assurance to that. I mean,
519
00:26:25.920 --> 00:26:27.519
I like to see. I like to know something that
520
00:26:27.599 --> 00:26:31.240
I'm not alone. That's all. Well, you're gonna take it.
521
00:26:32.240 --> 00:26:34.880
Take the word on that obvious a round number, and
522
00:26:35.039 --> 00:26:39.000
that'll make you do them better. Yeah, about twenty people, Jesus,
523
00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:45.559
he got a better body they talked to just about this,
524
00:26:45.799 --> 00:26:52.160
about it, good Lord? About well I had I had
525
00:26:52.240 --> 00:26:54.039
one guy tell me that I don't think you've ever
526
00:26:54.160 --> 00:26:55.720
interviewed or anybody else, did it.
527
00:26:55.960 --> 00:26:56.079
Uh?
528
00:26:57.480 --> 00:27:02.440
Uh, you got lean on a little bit and so
529
00:27:02.559 --> 00:27:04.200
on and so forth. Of course I didn't take what
530
00:27:04.319 --> 00:27:05.960
he had to say too too strongly.
531
00:27:06.839 --> 00:27:06.960
Uh.
532
00:27:07.640 --> 00:27:09.680
By the way, brownly that he is not one of
533
00:27:09.759 --> 00:27:12.319
those names. Well, no, I mean I don't. I told
534
00:27:12.359 --> 00:27:15.519
you yesterday you mentioned his name. I uh, you mentioned
535
00:27:15.559 --> 00:27:17.759
his name yesterday and I said, well, I hadn't seen
536
00:27:17.799 --> 00:27:22.440
that guy but once or twice. And uh uh that
537
00:27:22.799 --> 00:27:26.200
uh uh shit, you got nothing anyway with him, all
538
00:27:26.240 --> 00:27:29.559
that bunch of bunch of ex convicts. You know you're
539
00:27:29.599 --> 00:27:32.119
playing if you have you use any of that stuff,
540
00:27:32.200 --> 00:27:34.279
well you the doing you and that very much. I
541
00:27:34.319 --> 00:27:37.039
don't think. I don't know. I don't think he knows anything,
542
00:27:37.160 --> 00:27:41.160
or he just sold somebody a long time ago. He's
543
00:27:41.200 --> 00:27:45.480
got they treat up a brot. Huh. They talk about that.
544
00:27:46.359 --> 00:27:46.720
Well I don't.
545
00:27:46.720 --> 00:27:50.200
I don't know about that, but I uh uh, well,
546
00:27:50.279 --> 00:27:52.160
only one thing he might have is some of the
547
00:27:52.240 --> 00:27:55.279
various papers or something. You can't tell. He was pretty
548
00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:58.480
close to Ferry, but uh I I know he's scared
549
00:27:58.519 --> 00:28:01.519
of that. He's definitely afraid of Gary, and he's he's
550
00:28:01.559 --> 00:28:04.279
more afraid of federal people than everybody else. He's scared.
551
00:28:04.319 --> 00:28:08.400
He's scared, period. He's scared of me. He's uh. I
552
00:28:08.519 --> 00:28:10.160
saw him once in a car and he just took
553
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:12.440
off like a stripe and I s eight down the
554
00:28:12.480 --> 00:28:17.000
street and uh this other cat that runs with him,
555
00:28:17.000 --> 00:28:20.119
I've oh, I've I've seen him one time, I think
556
00:28:20.240 --> 00:28:23.640
with Brownie a long time ago. So yeah, that's been
557
00:28:23.720 --> 00:28:27.000
several months ago. He was a uh, I was a
558
00:28:27.160 --> 00:28:29.480
uh hotel and I was sitting drinking coffee with a
559
00:28:29.519 --> 00:28:31.559
guy and Brownley came by with this guy and Bronley
560
00:28:31.680 --> 00:28:34.559
said hello. The minute he met this other man, he
561
00:28:34.680 --> 00:28:44.799
took off. I sent with a lieutenant sule. You know, well, look,
562
00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:46.559
I'm gonna leave it after you if you wanna go
563
00:28:46.680 --> 00:28:50.000
one uh look see see talk to the man and
564
00:28:50.119 --> 00:28:51.759
see what kind of mean see you see if you'll
565
00:28:51.799 --> 00:28:54.240
give me any assurance at all, it's something even verbal,
566
00:28:54.359 --> 00:28:58.240
some kind of uh assurance and uh, god damn it,
567
00:28:58.400 --> 00:29:00.960
uh you to give you a verbal assurance that I
568
00:29:01.119 --> 00:29:04.880
give you with hias you sitting down't limb uhm. Were
569
00:29:04.880 --> 00:29:08.200
we going to leave anybody else on it for the
570
00:29:08.240 --> 00:29:10.680
interests of the people who cooperated with It's we got
571
00:29:10.720 --> 00:29:13.519
to where we're obligated once we wanted to bring 'em
572
00:29:13.559 --> 00:29:19.200
into the thing. You know, y y, you can't you
573
00:29:19.279 --> 00:29:22.599
can't go into something like this with the realization that
574
00:29:22.839 --> 00:29:26.759
the people that you're dealing with could get roughed up
575
00:29:26.839 --> 00:29:30.240
without uh, without the feeling the sense of responsibility to
576
00:29:30.359 --> 00:29:33.680
our h. It's hard to spell it out because uh
577
00:29:33.960 --> 00:29:37.200
you don't know what, if anything the other uh other
578
00:29:37.279 --> 00:29:40.000
side then might have not you know that's right, So
579
00:29:40.720 --> 00:29:43.440
you can't really uh you can't really say, Look, I
580
00:29:43.519 --> 00:29:46.359
can promise you this because uh, this might be the
581
00:29:47.000 --> 00:29:49.519
least useful thing a wrong you know, yeah, but I
582
00:29:49.599 --> 00:29:51.920
might say something through that whole thing is might tie
583
00:29:52.000 --> 00:29:53.759
up with something else, and you would give you one
584
00:29:53.799 --> 00:29:57.240
of the best cases you ever had to Now now
585
00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:01.440
I I don't think, but not not that we got what.
586
00:30:01.480 --> 00:30:05.960
In other words, you might uh uh once you got
587
00:30:06.039 --> 00:30:08.920
me in you're obligator that uh uh you might do
588
00:30:09.039 --> 00:30:12.000
something for me after that. But I can understand until
589
00:30:12.039 --> 00:30:14.960
I move. You're not uncertain too, You're it's whether words,
590
00:30:15.000 --> 00:30:16.759
we're looking at each other. It's kind of a Mexican
591
00:30:16.839 --> 00:30:19.000
stand off. It Well, Now, the the only thing that
592
00:30:19.319 --> 00:30:23.319
uh that the the ma, the basic protection that you
593
00:30:23.440 --> 00:30:27.680
gonna have is is the real number one is is
594
00:30:27.799 --> 00:30:30.599
being in the in the crowd that did the job
595
00:30:30.720 --> 00:30:33.319
instead of uh uh I mean I don't mean that
596
00:30:33.400 --> 00:30:35.519
they did the job. That's are but in uh but
597
00:30:35.680 --> 00:30:39.759
in the crowd, it's involved the things instead of uh
598
00:30:39.920 --> 00:30:44.240
standing out uh by yourself and uh and they have
599
00:30:44.480 --> 00:30:48.799
the uh the realization that uh that we after we
600
00:30:49.000 --> 00:30:52.400
do this thing, uh are going to are going to
601
00:30:52.680 --> 00:30:55.599
keep an eye on everybody that's that's stuck the knack out.
602
00:30:55.599 --> 00:30:57.680
I had to make God damn sure nobody tries to
603
00:30:57.839 --> 00:31:03.559
you know like that. Let's let's that. I'll tell you
604
00:31:03.720 --> 00:31:06.279
that's that's pretty silent. Uh you you give me some
605
00:31:06.839 --> 00:31:09.079
uh weep it or light there anyway you make sure
606
00:31:09.160 --> 00:31:11.759
that nobody's gonna lead on the people. Uh hm, well,
607
00:31:11.839 --> 00:31:14.279
you know as much as you can you can there
608
00:31:14.400 --> 00:31:16.839
are ways a person that mean but uh yeah, but
609
00:31:17.000 --> 00:31:19.119
I mean you know, we we're definitely not just gonna
610
00:31:19.119 --> 00:31:20.200
turn around and say, well.
611
00:31:20.359 --> 00:31:21.519
We live all right.
612
00:31:21.599 --> 00:31:24.599
I write criminal and general prosecution. You're not gonna hold
613
00:31:24.640 --> 00:31:28.440
still for it a persecution that I'm certainly not, certainly
614
00:31:28.559 --> 00:31:33.559
not well look, uh do you think that uh mister
615
00:31:33.640 --> 00:31:36.720
Sheridan would praise me of this? And uhs and uh
616
00:31:37.240 --> 00:31:38.720
give me a call and just give me some kind
617
00:31:38.720 --> 00:31:40.559
of a a praiser on this, and I'll pack my
618
00:31:40.640 --> 00:31:43.680
little stuff up in the uh sancual come down to
619
00:31:43.720 --> 00:31:47.359
sy al right, sure, here it go. Yeah, I give
620
00:31:47.400 --> 00:31:50.440
him a call, and if you'll give me something to
621
00:31:51.279 --> 00:31:54.519
ye if you say to you that that uh, if
622
00:31:54.599 --> 00:31:58.319
you cooperate with us where where the need uh if
623
00:31:58.359 --> 00:32:01.480
you buy eye opera, I mean time that they're kind.
624
00:32:01.240 --> 00:32:05.720
Of persecutor uh propecuture and that that uh had part
625
00:32:05.759 --> 00:32:09.920
of them and that uh We're going to make every effort,
626
00:32:10.559 --> 00:32:12.240
not only View, but everybody else.
627
00:32:12.160 --> 00:32:14.359
Is the properly with us to make sure that that happened,
628
00:32:15.160 --> 00:32:17.880
that that I make it fair enough. You come back
629
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:19.880
and Lord of boom on 'em. That's uh, that's exact
630
00:32:19.920 --> 00:32:21.640
mean I I's that's that's the only thing I wanna
631
00:32:21.640 --> 00:32:27.839
be sure of it. Uh. Uh I sincerely hope that
632
00:32:28.160 --> 00:32:31.759
uh he's probably done yet either ride or how I'm
633
00:32:31.839 --> 00:32:34.400
fine he may be going out alright on well if
634
00:32:34.400 --> 00:32:36.400
he give me acause some time today to kind of
635
00:32:36.440 --> 00:32:38.079
assured me of thatterview. But I'm not here. I'll be
636
00:32:38.160 --> 00:32:39.880
right back. It's because I've act to be done to
637
00:32:39.880 --> 00:32:43.759
get cigarettes or something, you know, and uh, but uh,
638
00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:45.680
I'll be around the house all day that my wife
639
00:32:45.759 --> 00:32:47.440
and child would be out for a little while. But
640
00:32:49.039 --> 00:32:53.039
if you'll call me and it just uh uh, I
641
00:32:53.200 --> 00:32:57.480
appreciate it. Okay, okay a lot 'em go alright there, alright,
642
00:32:57.640 --> 00:33:10.519
they kill you, sir? Why about and the text conversation
643
00:33:10.880 --> 00:33:17.720
with Rick tom Lee approximately ten thirty and twenty five
644
00:33:22.640 --> 00:33:27.279
on Saturday morning, May at twenty seventh, nineteen sixty seven,
645
00:33:27.440 --> 00:33:32.359
Trickman amphis Or Extortion and Investigation b wd ASU NBC
646
00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:42.519
clock stick clocking boys. Man, you don't never let holler yes,
647
00:33:42.599 --> 00:33:48.000
ma'am my dad college Martin. Oh say yes, ma'am.
648
00:33:49.559 --> 00:33:50.240
You got Jack.
649
00:33:50.279 --> 00:33:56.440
Hold on a minute, all right, Jack looks dave. I
650
00:33:56.599 --> 00:33:59.200
just got through talking to Rick Tonley. I had lunch
651
00:33:59.240 --> 00:34:02.880
with him yesterday, you know. Uh and uh he tells
652
00:34:02.960 --> 00:34:07.359
me that uh uh they couldn't know anything for me financially.
653
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:10.360
Listen to that. The other thing, uh cash uh they
654
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:12.920
take care of me and protect me and all I
655
00:34:13.119 --> 00:34:14.400
share if I go along with 'em.
656
00:34:14.440 --> 00:34:16.119
You know, wait, I didn't they I didn't.
657
00:34:16.119 --> 00:34:18.800
He They said they protect me, give me protection. You know,
658
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:22.320
they won't let anybody persecute me and all that, and
659
00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:24.800
uh so, I mean I talked with him a while
660
00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:26.840
ago on manny and not leave me much choice. You're
661
00:34:26.880 --> 00:34:29.440
gonna use his secret service thing and he he kind
662
00:34:29.480 --> 00:34:31.199
of backed off that. But when I spoke to him
663
00:34:31.199 --> 00:34:33.119
in person, I guess he figures I'm taping him with
664
00:34:33.199 --> 00:34:35.199
some goddamn thing. I don't even have the equipment for
665
00:34:35.320 --> 00:34:38.079
that crap, you know. But anyway they deal is that
666
00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:42.000
uh uh he uh. He had told me the other
667
00:34:42.119 --> 00:34:45.360
day that it uh uh they're gonna use me anyway,
668
00:34:45.440 --> 00:34:47.719
you know. So it's a matter I had no choice
669
00:34:47.760 --> 00:34:49.800
in the matter, and all that when I supported to
670
00:34:49.800 --> 00:34:54.079
had lunch with him, and uh uh uh, I don't
671
00:34:54.119 --> 00:34:56.079
even know whether this guy sharing is in town. He
672
00:34:56.280 --> 00:34:57.840
he was sure it's supposed to be with him the
673
00:34:57.880 --> 00:35:01.239
other day and that didn't show up. And uh so
674
00:35:01.400 --> 00:35:04.360
it's a pretty nasty deal where I was put in
675
00:35:04.400 --> 00:35:07.320
the position or either go along or they uh they
676
00:35:07.440 --> 00:35:10.519
either gonna crucify me or I could uh die die
677
00:35:10.519 --> 00:35:13.039
a nice quick death, you know. Well either that or
678
00:35:13.039 --> 00:35:16.480
I could uh uh saw I pedaled the deal. I
679
00:35:16.519 --> 00:35:18.360
don't know whether you have any connection with these guys
680
00:35:18.480 --> 00:35:20.559
or not. I'm not asking you that stay, but my god,
681
00:35:20.800 --> 00:35:23.239
uh uh I told him this. I said, I like
682
00:35:23.320 --> 00:35:25.840
some assurance, said I'm gonna have some kind of protection,
683
00:35:26.000 --> 00:35:29.880
you know, And I said, uh uh when I spoke
684
00:35:29.920 --> 00:35:31.639
to him yesterday and I said, you take some hundred
685
00:35:31.679 --> 00:35:33.280
dollar bills and cut 'em in half and give me,
686
00:35:33.480 --> 00:35:34.880
I mean a whole half of 'em, and went after
687
00:35:34.920 --> 00:35:37.320
our produce, will give me to gether half, you know, yeah,
688
00:35:37.440 --> 00:35:38.960
by something on that. So I know I can make
689
00:35:39.039 --> 00:35:43.039
bond or protect myself in some way. And uh he said,
690
00:35:43.039 --> 00:35:44.800
well it doesn't matter it was a thousand or five
691
00:35:44.880 --> 00:35:47.079
thousand dollars. They couldn't go that, Jai rob.
692
00:35:47.440 --> 00:35:49.679
Uh, well, I don't think anybody's being any play.
693
00:35:49.599 --> 00:35:52.920
It no, but I mean, uh uh hell, I know
694
00:35:53.000 --> 00:35:55.559
goddamn well, I uh, they're protecting other people and they're
695
00:35:55.599 --> 00:35:57.519
taking care of 'em, you know. So he he let
696
00:35:57.599 --> 00:36:00.480
me know, uh this morning when I work with him
697
00:36:00.480 --> 00:36:04.519
on the phone. Then uh, they would definitely uh assure
698
00:36:04.599 --> 00:36:06.960
me the fact that once I went, they would take
699
00:36:07.199 --> 00:36:08.960
uh give me protection anyway.
700
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:11.000
But I don't think I think you're to stay out
701
00:36:11.039 --> 00:36:14.840
as you know, I'll be your Yeah, you look like you.
702
00:36:14.880 --> 00:36:20.280
Was very dad. Yeah. Well I don't mind going along
703
00:36:20.320 --> 00:36:22.320
with fighting, i'd know, but I I wanna U a
704
00:36:22.400 --> 00:36:22.960
ut jacket.
705
00:36:22.960 --> 00:36:25.400
It's such a bad thing, such as bad as it
706
00:36:25.519 --> 00:36:26.000
what little wing.
707
00:36:26.079 --> 00:36:28.480
You know about it, all you can get caught is see,
708
00:36:28.599 --> 00:36:31.000
you'd be surprised. To you, you'd be surprised. Only know
709
00:36:31.079 --> 00:36:35.159
about anything well, well, no more wonderful. Uh I wish
710
00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:39.679
I knew less. Uh I'd do too finally, Uh uh
711
00:36:40.159 --> 00:36:42.880
I would definitely I liked him my main idea. But
712
00:36:42.920 --> 00:36:45.480
I'm afraid that uh, well give you in promation, Garrison.
713
00:36:46.039 --> 00:36:47.320
Oh shit, he ain't.
714
00:36:47.119 --> 00:36:48.039
Gonna do nothing for me.
715
00:36:48.440 --> 00:36:50.800
You do well, you can't go around you You look,
716
00:36:51.039 --> 00:36:53.079
if you're gonna go around, try peddling.
717
00:36:52.760 --> 00:36:54.280
The I'm not trying to puddle nothing.
718
00:36:55.039 --> 00:36:55.159
Well.
719
00:36:55.239 --> 00:36:57.960
Rick Rick Toney, a first ed player, tried to reach me,
720
00:36:58.039 --> 00:36:59.960
and then Rick Downey tried to reach me, not only
721
00:37:00.239 --> 00:37:03.559
uh directly, but through other people and everything else over
722
00:37:03.880 --> 00:37:06.519
Uh he's made five or sick calls to me, maybe
723
00:37:06.639 --> 00:37:10.440
ten all told. Uh, he's trying to approach me through
724
00:37:10.480 --> 00:37:13.719
other people, which he succeeded in doing. And he's been
725
00:37:13.760 --> 00:37:17.320
pretty persistent about the thing. So I perhaps I attached
726
00:37:17.360 --> 00:37:19.360
too much importance to his persistence.
727
00:37:19.440 --> 00:37:24.320
But they got among the fellow on the other line.
728
00:37:24.639 --> 00:37:27.760
Oh god, Uh, look have you see Sharon? And if
729
00:37:27.800 --> 00:37:30.119
sharing hi would assured me a protection and one thing
730
00:37:30.159 --> 00:37:30.960
and another himself.
731
00:37:31.039 --> 00:37:33.760
Well, I'm not talking to Sharon h He hadn't called me,
732
00:37:33.880 --> 00:37:35.000
and I'm not gonna call him.
733
00:37:36.559 --> 00:37:39.320
So well, you don't happen to see Rick will talk
734
00:37:39.440 --> 00:37:40.119
for me anyway.
735
00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:41.599
I'll give you a.
736
00:37:41.639 --> 00:37:42.559
Nice rock build up.
737
00:37:43.280 --> 00:37:45.440
Okay, let me run a nice rotten build up, I said,
738
00:37:45.480 --> 00:37:46.360
a nice build up.
739
00:37:46.559 --> 00:37:49.440
Well, I'd appreciate it. Uh Uh. All I want is
740
00:37:49.519 --> 00:37:51.400
his protection. I said, if you just showed me was
741
00:37:51.920 --> 00:37:54.159
He says about twenty other people have got along with him,
742
00:37:54.159 --> 00:37:55.599
and I said, he, oh, show me a film clip
743
00:37:55.719 --> 00:37:57.760
or too. I don't not even can interested in the
744
00:37:57.840 --> 00:37:59.440
identity of the people. I just want to see that
745
00:37:59.440 --> 00:38:01.199
I'm gonna stand and out there like a people and
746
00:38:01.239 --> 00:38:05.719
always did. That's all okay, sale Jack, Okay, bye bye
747
00:38:10.599 --> 00:38:18.440
uh uh. In the transcript conversation to Stephen S. Plotkin, Attorney,
748
00:38:19.719 --> 00:38:24.159
the approximate we live in forty or ti maguld find
749
00:38:24.199 --> 00:38:28.320
the race of race ten forty uh in the morning,
750
00:38:28.519 --> 00:38:35.119
May twenty seventh, nineteen sixty seven or so at NBC,
751
00:38:35.360 --> 00:38:44.960
I mean dsu A Stars Investigations, Weller shared, Oh yeah,
752
00:38:44.960 --> 00:38:48.280
I was lining to I was asleep for it was
753
00:38:48.320 --> 00:38:53.079
just full rain, all right. Uh four. Fine.
754
00:38:53.440 --> 00:38:56.480
Uh, I guess tricked down I talked to yesterday.
755
00:38:56.960 --> 00:39:04.480
Yeah. Uh yeah, Well I've I've uh was assured enough
756
00:39:04.599 --> 00:39:09.679
that I've been double with by most signs and yeah
757
00:39:09.800 --> 00:39:13.880
now and I've been I'm afraid to deal with time
758
00:39:13.920 --> 00:39:19.840
now or anybody finally get hurt. Yeah, you know you
759
00:39:19.960 --> 00:39:23.039
gotta on one side, you got drop on fresh. On
760
00:39:23.079 --> 00:39:27.599
the other side, you got drop on dah and uh,
761
00:39:28.840 --> 00:39:30.679
neither one of 'em in the courtroom half the time.
762
00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:31.360
You know you have.
763
00:39:33.239 --> 00:39:37.320
And uh, I think you follow what I'm saying at generality, Yeah,
764
00:39:38.199 --> 00:39:41.000
there's one of h I tried to expected its explain
765
00:39:41.079 --> 00:39:44.320
the wrecktors a lot of ways this guy runs. He's
766
00:39:44.360 --> 00:39:47.000
got a lot of friends. But without never getting you
767
00:39:47.079 --> 00:39:51.440
involved in court. NOTHINGY wanna tell you. I don't care
768
00:39:51.480 --> 00:39:55.960
about get together. Uh what happened at uh uh coffee?
769
00:39:56.719 --> 00:40:02.519
Huh you wanna talk? Yeah? Yeah, yeah, Uh that's good
770
00:40:02.599 --> 00:40:03.079
you right now?
771
00:40:04.440 --> 00:40:04.519
Uh?
772
00:40:04.599 --> 00:40:08.800
How about what time is that? That? Uh? We got
773
00:40:08.840 --> 00:40:12.760
twenty twenty after a twenty five, after two no, after
774
00:40:12.880 --> 00:40:16.320
month after you about about two five? All right? Good?
775
00:40:18.639 --> 00:40:26.199
Where uh where you are now? Uh? I'm a p
776
00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:30.039
rail I lean trade now, but I uh it's funny
777
00:40:30.079 --> 00:40:32.119
you're not registered because the things that were there when
778
00:40:32.199 --> 00:40:35.199
it couldn't reach the people. Uh waked this morning that.
779
00:40:35.280 --> 00:40:35.960
Was in the car well.
780
00:40:36.000 --> 00:40:37.920
No, I'm not registeried here that we're here in the
781
00:40:38.000 --> 00:40:45.800
lad well. Uh that's good. Uh, I w was see
782
00:40:45.840 --> 00:40:48.000
I I was kind of disturbed. I figured rich four
783
00:40:48.159 --> 00:40:50.480
was I lay at the school? Oh?
784
00:40:50.559 --> 00:40:51.280
Really? Yeah?
785
00:40:52.039 --> 00:40:58.800
The so uh why have I find about yah? But
786
00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:01.400
there's been so much for I didn't want it if
787
00:41:01.400 --> 00:41:03.519
I maybe I'm figured I didn't know you. Uh, I
788
00:41:03.519 --> 00:41:08.280
wouldn't know you from out Okay, but uh uh, it's
789
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:10.920
not that I don't trust break. It isn't he said.
790
00:41:11.079 --> 00:41:11.159
Uh.
791
00:41:11.440 --> 00:41:13.760
When I was able to find out about that boy
792
00:41:13.840 --> 00:41:15.960
as an individual, since he said here, it was all
793
00:41:16.079 --> 00:41:20.119
very good act. Uh. He seems like a break to put.
794
00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:23.039
Anyway, I don't think he's as.
795
00:41:22.920 --> 00:41:27.840
Treacherous as I've been in the NA. That's hope that
796
00:41:27.920 --> 00:41:29.079
he's nothing about.
797
00:41:31.000 --> 00:41:33.519
Uh uh Huh tell you what.
798
00:41:33.599 --> 00:41:36.320
I could throw a shirt on fur slacks a meet
799
00:41:36.360 --> 00:41:38.599
out of time. Uh, I catch a bus that goes
800
00:41:38.679 --> 00:41:42.079
right by the house. Uh and as yet that already
801
00:41:42.119 --> 00:41:44.239
costs a dime there, so I ask him to you
802
00:41:44.280 --> 00:41:47.679
don't break me either, way Okay, Well you know where
803
00:41:47.719 --> 00:41:50.880
the uh you know the park across from the uh
804
00:41:50.960 --> 00:41:55.760
cathedral or the plain Peter's church there? Mean, uh I
805
00:41:55.880 --> 00:41:58.719
think zebra is uh got him in the cathedral pater
806
00:42:00.039 --> 00:42:04.000
think that uh Sat Lois? Yeah, after the Saint Louis's
807
00:42:04.159 --> 00:42:08.519
Uh let's see uh let's sealk right, Yeah they raised
808
00:42:08.519 --> 00:42:11.559
it right? Done on my uh landmarks too? Oh yeah,
809
00:42:13.199 --> 00:42:16.280
uh tell you what with the shirt at all? Yeah?
810
00:42:16.400 --> 00:42:20.039
It works out right, I'll meet youright there? Uh were
811
00:42:20.079 --> 00:42:22.360
it interested? You went in to the parac right across
812
00:42:22.559 --> 00:42:27.079
the church? Al right? Okay, Uh, how you dress two o'clock? Uh?
813
00:42:29.400 --> 00:42:32.000
I was just gonna go back and put on a
814
00:42:32.159 --> 00:42:37.880
sports shirt. I uh, I'll be dressed in a a
815
00:42:38.000 --> 00:42:42.119
blue short sleeved sport shirt, blue pants. Alright, Well, I
816
00:42:42.400 --> 00:42:46.599
uh wear black slacks and probably just a white shirt.
817
00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:53.719
Couples any time fors Okay, So didn't you do anything
818
00:42:53.760 --> 00:42:55.920
like that? What would a caful get for? And ask
819
00:42:55.960 --> 00:42:58.159
a good old good ass cocke.
820
00:42:59.480 --> 00:42:59.519
O.
821
00:42:59.639 --> 00:43:01.519
Yah, I'm there no no chance of any tape and
822
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:04.519
uh any of that, Uh make a visions care any
823
00:43:04.960 --> 00:43:07.639
I mean, I'll mean, uh I'll be day alright, check
824
00:43:08.159 --> 00:43:16.480
mighty funny how last Carl was more for sharonan pursued
825
00:43:17.960 --> 00:43:26.840
Sharman investigation. I mean no, uh LEBC extortion investigation. Uh
826
00:43:26.920 --> 00:43:31.400
approximately two twenty twenty seventh to May nineteen sixty three.
827
00:43:32.960 --> 00:43:37.239
Approximately two twenty yeah, two twenty to twenty five. You
828
00:43:37.360 --> 00:44:12.159
got to well uh uh manh you Rick? Third? No,
829
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:14.400
I'm sorry? What cat out you do like that?
830
00:44:14.559 --> 00:44:14.800
Teach?
831
00:44:15.000 --> 00:44:17.800
Oh? Y you see five two three five h three three?
832
00:44:19.000 --> 00:44:19.440
Oh? No?
833
00:44:19.880 --> 00:44:21.920
Uh as all well?
834
00:44:22.039 --> 00:44:25.079
Oh is this missus Tarning? Yeah, I'm terribly sorry to
835
00:44:25.119 --> 00:44:29.320
bout you, missus Tarley. Uh what'd you have? Rick called me? Yes? Uh,
836
00:44:29.400 --> 00:44:36.360
it'sus Jack Martin. Oh ninety four three sixth nine four nights.
837
00:44:37.599 --> 00:44:40.840
Oh my god? And this tell him it's gravely important.
838
00:44:40.840 --> 00:44:43.480
I just want a second of his time. And I'm
839
00:44:43.519 --> 00:44:44.559
sure you would be glad. Uh.
840
00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:46.599
I think get and talk with him now about you
841
00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:50.599
gonna be uh chatting with me at old forty five minutes?
842
00:44:51.039 --> 00:44:52.719
Would you tell him to call me right away? Please?
843
00:44:52.880 --> 00:44:55.400
I'm it'll take about two minutes, and I'm sure he'd
844
00:44:55.400 --> 00:44:57.880
be pleased to hear anything. Oh, oh, thank you? M
845
00:45:03.960 --> 00:45:09.559
four Uh in a conversation til five two three one
846
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:16.719
nine two two resident Rick Donnelly. Uh Sunday, May twenty eight,
847
00:45:16.840 --> 00:45:21.239
nineteen sixty seven. The waiting us to call back pursuing
848
00:45:21.280 --> 00:45:34.159
this investigation. Time approximately three thirty five. Oh yeah, I call.
849
00:45:34.400 --> 00:45:40.639
I called you. Look. Uh, I've been putting a file together.
850
00:45:41.159 --> 00:45:44.639
Uh uh. Today I've been pulling stuff out and I
851
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:48.159
had to go over wearing some of the stuff stored,
852
00:45:48.239 --> 00:45:54.119
you know, and and uh per my conversation with uh
853
00:45:54.880 --> 00:45:58.760
mister Sharon, and yesterday I been putting a file together
854
00:45:58.880 --> 00:46:01.760
so I can free will doctor him. And of course
855
00:46:01.840 --> 00:46:06.159
we didn't mention any names. You know, who's many that
856
00:46:06.280 --> 00:46:10.199
say that I uh, well, I don't know. I was
857
00:46:10.239 --> 00:46:13.119
waiting to hear from him say so. I told him
858
00:46:13.159 --> 00:46:15.800
that several people would come in and this were reputable people.
859
00:46:15.840 --> 00:46:17.599
I'm been putting a file to go to the ship
860
00:46:18.639 --> 00:46:19.360
we get together.
861
00:46:20.320 --> 00:46:25.599
Well, uh he told me that uh uh when you
862
00:46:25.639 --> 00:46:26.239
were back to the.
863
00:46:26.280 --> 00:46:32.119
Original uh uh thing, the financial objection, you know that
864
00:46:33.039 --> 00:46:35.039
I told him this. I said, Uh, what do you got?
865
00:46:35.119 --> 00:46:38.800
I said, Uh, I gotta have some assurance that the
866
00:46:38.920 --> 00:46:42.320
network's gonna stand. But I I said, whether it's that
867
00:46:42.800 --> 00:46:49.719
or an exchange of letters or something, I said, I
868
00:46:49.880 --> 00:46:54.159
just can't take care now. This guy's uh former intelligence
869
00:46:54.199 --> 00:46:57.760
saucer easy either see s or c I d uh
870
00:46:59.039 --> 00:47:01.719
uh he he he He's not he's not a he's
871
00:47:01.800 --> 00:47:04.559
not a dumb bot. This man, uh that this man
872
00:47:04.599 --> 00:47:07.119
has had Uh let me turn this television set off here.
873
00:47:07.119 --> 00:47:09.280
I can hardly I can. I can hardly think that
874
00:47:09.519 --> 00:47:12.199
the dirt news broadcasts playing in the background. Hold on
875
00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:21.719
for me. What kid turns a crazy thing on and
876
00:47:21.840 --> 00:47:24.199
just leaves it on and walks off? You know? And
877
00:47:24.360 --> 00:47:27.920
our children are well anyway? Uh Uh. Shannon is a
878
00:47:28.159 --> 00:47:31.400
former intelligence officer. He's uh, he's had builds a good
879
00:47:31.519 --> 00:47:33.719
sold him before you and I mean, I mean, I'm
880
00:47:33.800 --> 00:47:37.400
I'm the same way you, uh in one respect to uh,
881
00:47:38.039 --> 00:47:41.480
I wanna know that. Uh, somebody's just not giving me
882
00:47:41.519 --> 00:47:44.920
a lot of hot air, you know. Well yeah, uh
883
00:47:45.639 --> 00:47:50.440
more guarantees than I. So yeah, and well he uh
884
00:47:50.519 --> 00:47:53.000
we left each other in uh in a well, we
885
00:47:53.239 --> 00:47:55.119
we left each other in a pretty good frame of mind.
886
00:47:55.159 --> 00:47:57.960
He said I'd hear from him later. Yeah, So I
887
00:47:58.159 --> 00:48:00.840
assume by that that perhaps I would one way or another.
888
00:48:00.960 --> 00:48:06.039
You see, In the meantime, I made some contacts by phone.
889
00:48:06.519 --> 00:48:09.920
I put file together to show the background and some
890
00:48:10.039 --> 00:48:13.519
of these other persons that I mentioned, and uh, to
891
00:48:13.639 --> 00:48:18.119
substantiate my business, you understand. So we come to some
892
00:48:18.320 --> 00:48:20.320
kind of an understanding, I'll be able to lay out
893
00:48:20.440 --> 00:48:24.880
documentary proof of what what is the story I've got
894
00:48:24.960 --> 00:48:30.039
to say, you know. And also in the morning, I've
895
00:48:30.119 --> 00:48:35.360
got to talk to an intelligence saucer in at to
896
00:48:35.400 --> 00:48:38.280
see how much of this stuff I got as classified too.
897
00:48:38.440 --> 00:48:40.719
I mean, whether I can use one of these people
898
00:48:40.880 --> 00:48:46.280
or not, I don't know. Uh, we're only in one version. Well,
899
00:48:46.360 --> 00:48:48.480
I mean, here's the thing. I mean, you're interested in
900
00:48:48.880 --> 00:48:52.440
the story we spoke of, and I can substantiate the story,
901
00:48:52.480 --> 00:48:56.079
and it'll it'll wind up, it'll make all it'll scream
902
00:48:56.159 --> 00:48:58.280
honks from hell to high heaven. That's what you want
903
00:48:59.280 --> 00:49:06.519
and uh apparently, uh apparently, uh uh, that's what you
904
00:49:06.599 --> 00:49:09.320
want proof of. And I'll give it to you. In
905
00:49:09.400 --> 00:49:11.559
other words, whatever I say, you want it, you want
906
00:49:11.599 --> 00:49:14.159
it verified. In other words, for your own for your
907
00:49:14.199 --> 00:49:17.719
own protection. You want it substantiated, don't you. Well you're
908
00:49:18.159 --> 00:49:20.800
anything I've got to say, you want it collaborated. Whether
909
00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:23.039
you use it or not, your own statement is its
910
00:49:23.079 --> 00:49:26.679
home best evidence. If you say the thing was a
911
00:49:26.719 --> 00:49:30.199
hope from your standpoint that that's all we need from you.
912
00:49:31.039 --> 00:49:32.519
And I wanted to show you is that proof. It's
913
00:49:32.559 --> 00:49:35.320
a hope from the whole standpoint, the whole goddamn picture.
914
00:49:35.360 --> 00:49:37.239
I don't really need. We don't really need that. That's
915
00:49:37.280 --> 00:49:40.280
what we've got our group of hope. Well from nineteen
916
00:49:40.360 --> 00:49:42.440
sixty three until now, we'll put it like that.
917
00:49:44.840 --> 00:49:45.599
Well at any rate.
918
00:49:47.559 --> 00:49:49.800
In fact, I'm just going through some stuff here, and
919
00:49:49.960 --> 00:49:56.239
I had to show where Garrison got his Cuban connection. There.
920
00:49:56.280 --> 00:49:58.559
He got that from one of the worst political enemies,
921
00:49:58.719 --> 00:50:01.239
enemies of five years years ago, four years ago. He
922
00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:04.480
picked that little pitch up years and years ago. And
923
00:50:04.599 --> 00:50:08.480
I've got the newspaper article that the newspaper article, it
924
00:50:08.599 --> 00:50:12.480
was a publication article from once he got it. Uh,
925
00:50:13.320 --> 00:50:16.280
this has been the thing over a long period of time.
926
00:50:16.320 --> 00:50:21.119
Whether you know, we don't. I'll tell the grope of
927
00:50:21.199 --> 00:50:24.159
our interests limited at this point, going to go so
928
00:50:24.320 --> 00:50:28.920
far that well, in other words, here's the thing I
929
00:50:29.039 --> 00:50:31.159
want to I want to give a complete I've got
930
00:50:31.239 --> 00:50:34.119
to mention people I talked to prior to an initial
931
00:50:34.239 --> 00:50:37.000
phone call, and I want to show you where these
932
00:50:37.079 --> 00:50:39.639
people fit in and and so on. And so what
933
00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:43.000
they said. Uh, I'll give you the story, and I
934
00:50:43.119 --> 00:50:46.280
want to show why. You see what I mean, I've
935
00:50:46.320 --> 00:50:48.639
got another words I can, I can, I can. In
936
00:50:48.719 --> 00:50:50.440
other words, if I show you something and I can
937
00:50:50.519 --> 00:50:53.039
show you, you you well if you are this story,
938
00:50:53.199 --> 00:50:58.199
it's the truth. You understand, uh, or I'm concerned you're
939
00:50:58.280 --> 00:51:01.360
at this point you're dealing with Walter. All right, we'll
940
00:51:01.360 --> 00:51:03.119
explain to him that I called you and what I
941
00:51:03.199 --> 00:51:05.079
had to say. Now I've got this stuff together, and
942
00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:08.360
about ten or eleven o'clock in the morning, I've got
943
00:51:08.440 --> 00:51:10.559
to meet a friend of mineer it's a it's not
944
00:51:10.679 --> 00:51:13.880
a friend, it's a contact I have here to be
945
00:51:14.039 --> 00:51:16.559
sure that I can use this one person there. It's
946
00:51:16.559 --> 00:51:18.239
all right, you know, because I don't want to do
947
00:51:18.320 --> 00:51:22.760
anything that might conflict with government, you know. But I've
948
00:51:22.800 --> 00:51:25.119
got to meet this man. He's currently with the US government,
949
00:51:26.079 --> 00:51:28.760
And all right, I'm gonna tell him I'm dealing with you.
950
00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:31.760
Follow So that's that's it, you know. All right, So
951
00:51:31.840 --> 00:51:35.159
I'm ready to go anytime now. If he explain what
952
00:51:35.559 --> 00:51:38.320
guarantees that he got, I can tell you that because
953
00:51:38.639 --> 00:51:40.800
you know, you're just going to have to take that
954
00:51:40.920 --> 00:51:42.639
word for it. Well, he said he was going to
955
00:51:42.719 --> 00:51:44.920
clear He told me he was going to clear some
956
00:51:45.039 --> 00:51:48.440
things with the what's the home office or whatever it
957
00:51:48.639 --> 00:51:52.159
was there, and he can give you is we're going
958
00:51:52.239 --> 00:51:55.119
to back you up in terms of any harassment. Well,
959
00:51:55.159 --> 00:52:00.239
we had some conversations there that I didn't have with you. Yeah,
960
00:52:00.360 --> 00:52:04.880
and uh so, uh I'll tell it gets alright, Uh
961
00:52:05.440 --> 00:52:08.239
probably tell him I won't be ready to open this
962
00:52:08.400 --> 00:52:11.079
prime file and completely crack it open and give names,
963
00:52:11.159 --> 00:52:16.639
times and dates and places, uh until uh probably about
964
00:52:16.760 --> 00:52:19.679
noon tomorrow, all right, because I've got to get some
965
00:52:19.800 --> 00:52:23.880
of this stuff clear though. Okay, okay, so alrightkay by life.
966
00:52:28.960 --> 00:52:33.599
Termination of telephone call from Rick Tonneley received by me
967
00:52:34.840 --> 00:52:42.679
uh at approximate way my thirty on the evening of
968
00:52:43.199 --> 00:52:49.400
May twenty eighth, nineteen sixty seven, pursuing this investigation that
969
00:52:49.519 --> 00:52:52.079
was mister Rick Tonney. We were referring to mister Walders
970
00:52:52.119 --> 00:53:19.159
shirt and NBC foo uh uh.
971
00:53:20.719 --> 00:53:23.840
Hello, just a good yeah, mister arn.
972
00:53:23.800 --> 00:53:27.440
I argue this for all right, jack, uh work. The
973
00:53:27.559 --> 00:53:29.400
reason I called you is the best time to get
974
00:53:29.480 --> 00:53:33.239
you go ahead, uh work, I uh these people, as
975
00:53:33.280 --> 00:53:36.880
I told you for so many weeks, Now try to
976
00:53:36.920 --> 00:53:38.599
get me to give him this film. Well I did.
977
00:53:38.639 --> 00:53:41.639
I contacted uh finally, as I told you, I was
978
00:53:41.719 --> 00:53:46.960
going to and uh he and I had lunch, uh
979
00:53:46.960 --> 00:53:52.119
our phone conversations, and then the first in person thery. Uh.
980
00:53:52.320 --> 00:53:54.440
They said, well, we'll give you the protection of the network,
981
00:53:54.519 --> 00:53:57.360
you know. Yeah, Well that's that's that's good. If if
982
00:53:57.519 --> 00:54:00.400
if uh if if it isn't just a you know
983
00:54:00.440 --> 00:54:04.199
what I mean, conversation. Yeah, And I said, well that's fine.
984
00:54:04.320 --> 00:54:06.239
I said, Look, I said, uh, I've got to have
985
00:54:06.400 --> 00:54:09.880
some protection if I go out on a limb. Uh.
986
00:54:10.280 --> 00:54:12.960
I said, I've uh this man will not only mean
987
00:54:13.000 --> 00:54:15.960
he's not gonna spoke still, he's gonna retaliate. This man
988
00:54:16.119 --> 00:54:18.519
does that. That's that's just the way he lives. Yeah,
989
00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:21.920
it's his philosophy. Yeah, I said, true or false anything,
990
00:54:21.960 --> 00:54:24.039
he's gonna he's gonna he's gonna come back on me
991
00:54:24.639 --> 00:54:27.000
or you'll he comes back on everybody, one way or another.
992
00:54:28.320 --> 00:54:30.239
And I said, look, I said, I've I've got to
993
00:54:30.920 --> 00:54:33.320
be assured the fact that, uh, you're just giving me
994
00:54:33.400 --> 00:54:37.039
something besides conversation, I said, in exchange of letters or
995
00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:40.559
uh some medium, just to prove to me that uh
996
00:54:41.280 --> 00:54:43.320
uh damn it. I'm gonna have some means of defense.
997
00:54:44.679 --> 00:54:47.199
I said, I I I just can't be your word
998
00:54:47.480 --> 00:54:49.320
on something. I said, I don't know you that well.
999
00:54:49.519 --> 00:54:53.960
So anyway, it didn't work out too well. And uh,
1000
00:54:54.280 --> 00:54:57.639
the next thing I know, I got a call. I
1001
00:54:57.760 --> 00:55:00.920
talked to him again on the phone, and then mister
1002
00:55:01.280 --> 00:55:05.039
Waller Sharon to uh called me. Yeah. I met with him.
1003
00:55:05.079 --> 00:55:08.519
We went to the met over was uh Saturday over there.
1004
00:55:09.280 --> 00:55:10.719
We went to the cafe to the moor and I
1005
00:55:10.800 --> 00:55:15.519
had coffee from the little park there and uh, he
1006
00:55:15.639 --> 00:55:18.880
tells me the same thing. Oh yeah, he said, you're well.
1007
00:55:18.920 --> 00:55:21.119
He says, you're The main protection is the fact that
1008
00:55:21.280 --> 00:55:24.880
the public knows well, my god, the public, Uh is
1009
00:55:25.000 --> 00:55:28.440
no protection. You can pass out handbills. I don't mean nothing.
1010
00:55:29.119 --> 00:55:32.320
You're not and I not. So I told him again.
1011
00:55:32.400 --> 00:55:35.280
I said, look, I said, Uh, I'm not trying to
1012
00:55:35.559 --> 00:55:39.119
to shake anybody down or any of that nonsense. I said, Oh,
1013
00:55:39.159 --> 00:55:41.760
I I know, I uh may possess some what of
1014
00:55:41.800 --> 00:55:45.920
a nefarious reputation he had, I said, uh, an exchange
1015
00:55:45.960 --> 00:55:49.079
of letters? Uh anything, I said, I've got like that.
1016
00:55:49.320 --> 00:55:50.920
I said, just write out or not. And you're on
1017
00:55:51.039 --> 00:55:54.639
handwriting I said, uh, give me reasonable assurance that you've got.
1018
00:55:54.719 --> 00:55:59.119
People are gonna say, I, we don't know you r.
1019
00:55:59.239 --> 00:56:00.599
I said, no, I know. I said, oh you and
1020
00:56:00.679 --> 00:56:02.880
I I've uh've been around a little bit more to this.
1021
00:56:03.000 --> 00:56:05.360
You know. Damn well you tell people just about anything
1022
00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:08.079
you can to get a story. I said, but uh,
1023
00:56:08.559 --> 00:56:10.480
a man, I said, I can't do that to myself.
1024
00:56:10.760 --> 00:56:11.159
Can't do it.
1025
00:56:11.840 --> 00:56:16.440
Absolutely not. And uh, I said, you're I understand you're
1026
00:56:16.480 --> 00:56:20.480
a former intelligence agent, mister Sharon, and uh, you know
1027
00:56:20.599 --> 00:56:22.719
what goes on. Let's not kid each other. I said,
1028
00:56:22.800 --> 00:56:24.639
this is a lot of intrigue in the Orleans. It's
1029
00:56:24.679 --> 00:56:29.760
a It's another Lisbon, they Stein Bull, another Ireland. You
1030
00:56:29.840 --> 00:56:33.920
know that these people are capable of anything. I said,
1031
00:56:33.960 --> 00:56:35.679
I gotta, I gotta have some insurance that you know.
1032
00:56:35.960 --> 00:56:39.800
Let me sit out in minari and if he said,
1033
00:56:39.920 --> 00:56:42.880
I don't know what I can do, and I said, well,
1034
00:56:42.880 --> 00:56:45.760
you've got a three hundred thousand dollars appropriation. You first
1035
00:56:45.840 --> 00:56:47.440
got it for a half hour show, and then you
1036
00:56:47.519 --> 00:56:50.119
got about five hundred thousand dollars, got an increase two
1037
00:56:50.199 --> 00:56:54.039
hundred thousand dollars for for an hour show. I said, uh,
1038
00:56:54.639 --> 00:56:57.719
you know yourself if I if I suffered any retaliation
1039
00:56:57.880 --> 00:56:59.599
from this man, the first thing I'm gonna have to
1040
00:56:59.639 --> 00:57:02.000
make is around a five thousand dollars. Sure he buy
1041
00:57:02.119 --> 00:57:04.880
that's five bills right there. I said, it's gonna I
1042
00:57:04.920 --> 00:57:06.719
can't get a lawyer in conn it offend me for
1043
00:57:06.840 --> 00:57:10.480
less than five hundred if you know that? And I said,
1044
00:57:10.599 --> 00:57:13.159
uh uh, well, I said, y uh. I talked to Steve.
1045
00:57:13.320 --> 00:57:15.320
I said, Steve, advise me not to have anything to do.
1046
00:57:15.480 --> 00:57:18.679
He just remain silent. Uh. I said, I'm talking to
1047
00:57:18.719 --> 00:57:21.480
you against a vice a council. Technically, I says, true,
1048
00:57:21.960 --> 00:57:24.239
who's here? Who's here? About? Well? He was Steve parking
1049
00:57:24.440 --> 00:57:27.599
wash now still is as far as I know. I said,
1050
00:57:27.719 --> 00:57:31.760
uh so, I said, you see where I'm at. And
1051
00:57:31.880 --> 00:57:35.039
I said, uh uh damn it. I said, uh you
1052
00:57:35.119 --> 00:57:37.639
could take uh ten one hundred dollar bills and cut
1053
00:57:37.719 --> 00:57:41.639
him in a half. I said, anything, or if exchange
1054
00:57:41.679 --> 00:57:43.800
your letters anything. I said, then if I need it, well,
1055
00:57:43.840 --> 00:57:46.639
I said, uh uh, you can back me up. If
1056
00:57:46.679 --> 00:57:50.719
not all this, that's it. And uh, I don't know.
1057
00:57:51.000 --> 00:57:53.719
He says, I'll have to I have to speak to
1058
00:57:53.880 --> 00:57:55.800
the neck word network. I said, when you're it's all
1059
00:57:55.840 --> 00:57:59.079
in your hands. That's why you're here. And he said, well,
1060
00:57:59.119 --> 00:58:01.000
maybe I'll get with you later. Maybe I'll get with
1061
00:58:01.079 --> 00:58:04.760
you later. In other words, Uh, I told him, I said, well,
1062
00:58:04.800 --> 00:58:06.320
it seems you want me to throw all the way
1063
00:58:06.400 --> 00:58:09.320
with you, but uh uh you you're killing me the
1064
00:58:09.400 --> 00:58:11.800
con here. And that's about what it amounts to do.
1065
00:58:11.920 --> 00:58:17.800
You know that first, it fills the back. But oh,
1066
00:58:17.800 --> 00:58:19.679
I'm not trying to make I'm not trying to play
1067
00:58:19.800 --> 00:58:22.199
games or none of that stuff like you mentioned. That's
1068
00:58:22.280 --> 00:58:26.960
there's no game to it. Uh my god. Uh do
1069
00:58:27.079 --> 00:58:30.880
they expect me to uh to lay my my my,
1070
00:58:31.360 --> 00:58:32.840
my life out on the line and lay my head
1071
00:58:32.880 --> 00:58:34.880
on the block and then trust somebody not to bring
1072
00:58:34.920 --> 00:58:40.840
the acts down. That's one of the monster Wow. I
1073
00:58:40.920 --> 00:58:42.559
mean you see my point of view there, don't you?
1074
00:58:44.800 --> 00:58:47.679
Oh I I that's probably between YouTube. But all I
1075
00:58:47.719 --> 00:58:50.599
can tell you nobody can comp we can protect anybody
1076
00:58:50.800 --> 00:58:54.119
but anything. The fact is that who we're trying to
1077
00:58:54.159 --> 00:58:57.199
get what they can you do need is the.
1078
00:58:57.280 --> 00:59:02.280
Truth in order to solve the problem. The truth is
1079
00:59:02.360 --> 00:59:04.960
not always it's an easy thing to give.
1080
00:59:05.039 --> 00:59:09.199
And in fortunes that are got their steak and pick
1081
00:59:09.880 --> 00:59:14.280
why well, hm.
1082
00:59:14.719 --> 00:59:18.039
Let's not be sophistic and I mean, uh uh, I'm
1083
00:59:18.039 --> 00:59:20.920
speaking generally the district attorney. Now you've seen this gry
1084
00:59:21.079 --> 00:59:25.119
talking about the attorney. Yeah. Uh.
1085
00:59:25.159 --> 00:59:27.840
There's only one way that uh, there's abuse of people
1086
00:59:27.960 --> 00:59:31.000
can be dealt with. That is by an accumulation enough
1087
00:59:31.119 --> 00:59:31.960
crewe that's all.
1088
00:59:32.400 --> 00:59:37.159
Uh. Well, these guys, uh they they they jumped all
1089
00:59:37.199 --> 00:59:39.440
over me five or six times. They come to the
1090
00:59:39.519 --> 00:59:43.119
house here. One time they left this uh funny guy
1091
00:59:43.719 --> 00:59:47.000
uh s two dicks. Uh huh uh rois all and
1092
00:59:47.079 --> 00:59:50.400
ivan they they they uh left notes for me and
1093
00:59:50.480 --> 00:59:55.159
stuff like that. Uh uh come by Sunday the mornings
1094
00:59:55.239 --> 00:59:57.719
and before nine o'clock and take me down to the
1095
00:59:57.800 --> 01:00:03.000
a's office and nonsense. I'm I'm not the average run
1096
01:00:03.039 --> 01:00:05.079
in the middle guy. This this crap doesn't scare me.
1097
01:00:05.199 --> 01:00:07.400
But you take the average square. So I tried to
1098
01:00:07.440 --> 01:00:10.159
explain to him. I said, my god, I said, conduct
1099
01:00:10.280 --> 01:00:14.079
like that that people don't understand. It completely demoralizes them
1100
01:00:14.079 --> 01:00:16.559
and shakes them up. And I said, it throws things
1101
01:00:16.639 --> 01:00:18.719
clear out of proportion to where they they think it's
1102
01:00:18.760 --> 01:00:20.880
worse than what it is. But I said, it is
1103
01:00:21.000 --> 01:00:26.119
goddamn embarrassing. And uh I said. These these people, I said,
1104
01:00:26.159 --> 01:00:27.840
have no mercy. They'll tag someone you.
1105
01:00:30.039 --> 01:00:31.519
Well anything, No.
1106
01:00:31.599 --> 01:00:34.920
I said, they can though you know, no, not yet.
1107
01:00:35.679 --> 01:00:39.239
But Jesus, let's you know what the facts are. Aron,
1108
01:00:39.360 --> 01:00:42.199
I'm not I'm not trying to kid you. I'm not
1109
01:00:42.280 --> 01:00:44.679
trying to play games with you. But it seemed to
1110
01:00:44.760 --> 01:00:48.320
me that if if Sharonan and NBC was more sincere
1111
01:00:48.840 --> 01:00:51.079
and at least turn around and and and and give
1112
01:00:51.119 --> 01:00:54.519
me I mean the recipient of a letter, uh stating
1113
01:00:54.599 --> 01:00:56.280
the fact that they would back me up in the
1114
01:00:56.360 --> 01:00:59.639
event uh uh of any kind of retaliation. And I mean,
1115
01:00:59.679 --> 01:01:01.679
I mean, I don't think that's too much that well,
1116
01:01:01.920 --> 01:01:05.360
or evidently they're backing up Bob Buff and they're cause
1117
01:01:05.400 --> 01:01:07.559
Bob Buff didn't have uh Ah, Nicole wan to run
1118
01:01:07.599 --> 01:01:11.199
to a lawyer with somebody's doing something for him. Uh uh.
1119
01:01:11.480 --> 01:01:15.079
Novell NBC is picking up the tab for novel with
1120
01:01:15.239 --> 01:01:21.840
plot Can. He admits it. Plot Can admits it, and
1121
01:01:21.960 --> 01:01:23.199
the NBC is paying him.
1122
01:01:23.519 --> 01:01:23.719
Sure.
1123
01:01:23.880 --> 01:01:26.039
Hell yeah, he's been me. They're picking up the tab.
1124
01:01:26.119 --> 01:01:28.400
He first he said, well, you know, Jack, he sold
1125
01:01:28.480 --> 01:01:30.280
the Jamaican And I said, hell, he was in hock
1126
01:01:30.360 --> 01:01:32.360
to a guy. Damn pinball. I mean not the uh
1127
01:01:32.559 --> 01:01:36.599
the the uh music music people over there for everything
1128
01:01:36.679 --> 01:01:39.159
the damn thing was worth. I said that joint wasn't solid,
1129
01:01:39.199 --> 01:01:41.360
and you know it, and I know it. I said, Oh,
1130
01:01:41.440 --> 01:01:44.519
you're kidding, he says, Well, he says, I'm not so
1131
01:01:44.760 --> 01:01:48.320
sure that NBC would vote still for you, Jack. I said, well,
1132
01:01:48.320 --> 01:01:50.119
I don't bullyeve me. I can give this man and
1133
01:01:50.239 --> 01:01:53.760
more shit and isn't and and enough shit and more
1134
01:01:53.840 --> 01:01:57.079
ship probably than novel can says. I won't. I won't
1135
01:01:57.239 --> 01:01:59.719
contaminate mine. When a bunch of this argument, I'm at
1136
01:01:59.719 --> 01:02:03.840
a home me, I'm about CIA and uh the governor
1137
01:02:03.960 --> 01:02:08.039
and a lot of a lot of rot. I said, oh,
1138
01:02:08.119 --> 01:02:10.599
I'll get the basket right between the headlights where it'll
1139
01:02:10.679 --> 01:02:11.639
hurt Jack.
1140
01:02:11.920 --> 01:02:14.039
But I gotta get corner half of the office.
1141
01:02:14.360 --> 01:02:19.159
Yeah, and uh, you know, call me their little or time.
1142
01:02:19.360 --> 01:02:21.400
But I got a oh all right, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
1143
01:02:21.440 --> 01:02:23.679
I buy eighty.
1144
01:02:23.920 --> 01:02:25.599
I'm sorry. I know you got I know you've got
1145
01:02:25.639 --> 01:02:27.760
appointments and stuff. We want to call me about nine
1146
01:02:27.760 --> 01:02:31.599
o'clock the office offer there money finds her of right,
1147
01:02:31.639 --> 01:02:42.280
thank you, sir. I had a transmission, uh eight fifty
1148
01:02:42.679 --> 01:02:47.039
five seven fifty five, that is seven fifty five with
1149
01:02:47.280 --> 01:02:52.920
Aaron M. Cone twenty ninth to May nineteen sixty seven.
1150
01:02:54.159 --> 01:02:58.519
It's Monday morning. Pursued this investigation in hopes that he
1151
01:02:58.639 --> 01:03:02.360
will contact Walters shared that Rick timely or some of
1152
01:03:02.440 --> 01:03:05.000
the people in in DC as a following it's this
1153
01:03:05.119 --> 01:03:23.559
conversational pursuit. Oh uh uh uh.
1154
01:03:29.639 --> 01:03:32.199
Uh Frank commission.
1155
01:03:32.519 --> 01:03:33.400
Yeah, what's the call?
1156
01:03:33.800 --> 01:03:34.280
Hit Jack?
1157
01:03:35.199 --> 01:03:36.079
Well, you're were there?
1158
01:03:36.599 --> 01:03:38.119
Yeah, I'll hold a guess a second.
1159
01:03:38.400 --> 01:03:47.400
Yeah, I mean yeah, Uh well, that's what I was thinking.
1160
01:03:47.760 --> 01:03:50.599
Uh what's it called? They? They people seem reluctant. I
1161
01:03:50.639 --> 01:03:53.320
don't know whether they destruct and trust me or not.
1162
01:03:53.760 --> 01:03:56.119
I can't blame 'em for that. After what's been said,
1163
01:03:56.400 --> 01:04:00.679
what come? Uh? Well, I talked to both Walter uh
1164
01:04:00.960 --> 01:04:05.079
Sheridan and uh Rick Connelly the Gadoless with Rick first
1165
01:04:05.119 --> 01:04:08.639
and then later uh Walter Sheridan called me side. I
1166
01:04:08.679 --> 01:04:10.960
mean I had him at two o'clock over there, as
1167
01:04:11.079 --> 01:04:15.079
I said before, across from the Basilica the cathedral, and
1168
01:04:15.239 --> 01:04:20.199
we went over that coffee again. Kevin DeMont, Uh, here's
1169
01:04:20.280 --> 01:04:23.920
the thing. Uh, you know, the viciousness of the opposition.
1170
01:04:24.119 --> 01:04:26.320
I don't have to orient you that you know their
1171
01:04:26.400 --> 01:04:31.000
capabilities and what they can do. They uh uh, I
1172
01:04:31.079 --> 01:04:33.199
can't do anything from beat the hell out of you,
1173
01:04:33.440 --> 01:04:37.880
to continue to harassment, to get yourself killed, or go
1174
01:04:38.000 --> 01:04:43.519
to Angoa. Uh uh. You've seen what happened to Harley Davis,
1175
01:04:43.599 --> 01:04:45.920
You've seen what happened to Livers say, you've seen what
1176
01:04:46.079 --> 01:04:50.320
happened to happen a dozen other people. So the legend goes, yeah,
1177
01:04:50.519 --> 01:04:56.079
oh yeah, uh Santos uh Jesus. I mean we could
1178
01:04:56.079 --> 01:04:58.800
go into is a legion of uh was a legion
1179
01:04:58.880 --> 01:05:00.960
of things. So the legen and goes, you know what
1180
01:05:01.039 --> 01:05:04.800
I mean? Uh uh? You and I might uh know
1181
01:05:04.960 --> 01:05:07.920
the difference between the legend fact and re uh fiction.
1182
01:05:08.079 --> 01:05:12.119
You know, these people don't that we're dealing with her.
1183
01:05:12.159 --> 01:05:15.320
I tried to explain to them, and they said yeah. Uh.
1184
01:05:15.639 --> 01:05:18.840
Walter said yeah, he was aware. I said, well, you
1185
01:05:19.000 --> 01:05:22.559
got yourself another Lisbon. You've got another Dublin there. You've
1186
01:05:22.599 --> 01:05:27.000
got another Eastern bull here. Only you don't know you're square.
1187
01:05:28.239 --> 01:05:31.000
You might be another intelligence officer. I understand he was
1188
01:05:31.079 --> 01:05:33.239
in the CID or see I see or something during
1189
01:05:33.280 --> 01:05:36.480
the wars. And and I said, but you don't know,
1190
01:05:36.920 --> 01:05:40.480
you think you don't uh believe me when I said, well,
1191
01:05:40.559 --> 01:05:43.719
he said we were gonna I had said, you give
1192
01:05:43.760 --> 01:05:47.000
me an a a letter or something or other exchange
1193
01:05:47.039 --> 01:05:50.840
of letters or I said, take yourself, uh ten him
1194
01:05:50.880 --> 01:05:52.679
more or one hundred dollar bills and cut him and
1195
01:05:52.719 --> 01:05:54.920
a half something. They told me to give me some security,
1196
01:05:55.000 --> 01:05:57.360
you know. He said, no, we were gonna give you
1197
01:05:57.440 --> 01:06:00.639
a thousand dollars. We just pay you. And I said, well,
1198
01:06:01.000 --> 01:06:03.440
he said, but I can't seep paying for information. I said,
1199
01:06:03.480 --> 01:06:06.599
you're not. I said, this is insurance that I'll to
1200
01:06:06.719 --> 01:06:10.559
me that. No, he doesn't. He says, well, if we
1201
01:06:10.639 --> 01:06:12.360
were going to give you a thousand, we just give
1202
01:06:12.400 --> 01:06:14.360
it to you, we wouldn't bother to cut in half. See.
1203
01:06:15.159 --> 01:06:17.760
Uh it's it's sounded to me as if they might.
1204
01:06:18.039 --> 01:06:20.679
But he says, the only thing we're reluctant in doing
1205
01:06:20.800 --> 01:06:23.679
that because we don't feel we should pay for I said, well,
1206
01:06:23.760 --> 01:06:26.519
that's that's double on trendee. I said, that's uh you
1207
01:06:26.599 --> 01:06:28.360
know a way. I said, Look, I said, I'm not
1208
01:06:28.519 --> 01:06:31.719
asking for money for what I might say. It's the
1209
01:06:31.840 --> 01:06:35.239
idea that I need assurance of the fact. It's insurance
1210
01:06:35.320 --> 01:06:38.679
to me that uh goddamn it. That I'm not. I'm
1211
01:06:38.719 --> 01:06:40.360
going to have some I got an ace in the hole,
1212
01:06:40.719 --> 01:06:43.159
and I said, you got those pictures of mister Hamilton.
1213
01:06:43.280 --> 01:06:47.360
You're versatile, you can turn around and uh you're very flexible.
1214
01:06:47.400 --> 01:06:49.320
You can you can choose your own defense. You have
1215
01:06:49.400 --> 01:06:52.159
a means of various means of defense. Whereas if you
1216
01:06:52.320 --> 01:06:54.800
just got a letter of promise or a verbal word,
1217
01:06:54.880 --> 01:06:57.719
it's a lot of hot air. I said. Moreover, I said,
1218
01:06:57.719 --> 01:06:59.239
if it was done in that way, and it was
1219
01:06:59.320 --> 01:07:03.679
done in a k sh uh insurance policy, you might say, uh.
1220
01:07:03.920 --> 01:07:06.239
I said that the insurance would be on your side
1221
01:07:06.239 --> 01:07:09.360
of the fence. You'd already paid your obligation. That would
1222
01:07:09.360 --> 01:07:11.920
be the end of it. There's nothing I could say
1223
01:07:12.000 --> 01:07:15.280
because uh uh I I've I've had it, you know.
1224
01:07:16.159 --> 01:07:18.559
And I said that that would also ensure you. I said,
1225
01:07:18.559 --> 01:07:21.000
that's the only reason I brought it up. I'm not
1226
01:07:21.119 --> 01:07:24.119
trying to be a climb destined or sharp with you
1227
01:07:24.239 --> 01:07:26.360
or anything like that. It's just the idea that I'm scared.
1228
01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:29.480
And I said, I'm a man, that's I'm used to
1229
01:07:29.559 --> 01:07:31.360
this fear. I've lived on her. And I said, it
1230
01:07:31.440 --> 01:07:33.840
don't face me like a lot of squares like it
1231
01:07:33.880 --> 01:07:35.719
does a lot of squares. I said, but I know
1232
01:07:35.840 --> 01:07:38.119
what these people are capable of. Another. They pulled something
1233
01:07:38.159 --> 01:07:40.840
on me. It's gonna be good and permanent, and they're
1234
01:07:40.840 --> 01:07:44.079
not gonna just just lean on me. They're gonna do
1235
01:07:44.239 --> 01:07:46.639
more in that. They're gonna fix me up real good.
1236
01:07:48.079 --> 01:07:49.920
And he says, well, you'd probably hear from it. So
1237
01:07:50.000 --> 01:07:51.719
that was the end of it. That was Saturday. I
1238
01:07:51.760 --> 01:07:54.320
didn't hear anything sunny, and I probably won't hear anything today.
1239
01:07:55.679 --> 01:07:59.360
I called. Uh. I talked to Rick uh Sunday afternoon
1240
01:07:59.440 --> 01:08:01.440
and he said, well, well, he said, I don't know.
1241
01:08:01.639 --> 01:08:04.639
It's just uh uh. I taught on my hands. It's
1242
01:08:04.679 --> 01:08:06.760
in sharing its hands, you know. And I tried to
1243
01:08:06.760 --> 01:08:09.159
explain the record again what uh when I was getting
1244
01:08:09.239 --> 01:08:12.039
after there's nothing. I'm not asking for a payoff, you know.
1245
01:08:12.079 --> 01:08:15.199
In other words, that isn't it. I think you understand
1246
01:08:15.280 --> 01:08:19.039
what I mean. And because you you've been here a
1247
01:08:19.159 --> 01:08:22.359
long time, you you've been faced with this thing before.
1248
01:08:22.359 --> 01:08:24.039
You see these people operate.
1249
01:08:25.399 --> 01:08:25.520
Now.
1250
01:08:26.319 --> 01:08:28.720
Uh. I know you don't like to be a part
1251
01:08:28.760 --> 01:08:31.600
of you a thing like this, but I know, uh,
1252
01:08:31.800 --> 01:08:35.279
it's not hard to see where your sympathies are Uh,
1253
01:08:35.479 --> 01:08:37.359
I'd go so far as to seeing this eron and
1254
01:08:38.039 --> 01:08:40.359
if you, uh I don't know where you wanna get
1255
01:08:40.399 --> 01:08:43.239
involved with them, you're not. But uh if they if
1256
01:08:43.279 --> 01:08:47.800
they give you some written assurance or uh uh deposit
1257
01:08:47.960 --> 01:08:50.800
something with you there too that I could I could
1258
01:08:50.920 --> 01:08:55.159
fall back on if I had to, you understand, Uh
1259
01:08:55.520 --> 01:08:57.840
i'd uh I I'd go along if they don't wanna
1260
01:08:57.880 --> 01:09:02.000
trust me. Uh if they they give you a thousand dollars,
1261
01:09:02.079 --> 01:09:03.760
or if they give you the letter for me in
1262
01:09:03.880 --> 01:09:05.520
case I happen to have to have it, you know
1263
01:09:05.560 --> 01:09:08.239
what I mean? Uh, I would be alright with me.
1264
01:09:08.520 --> 01:09:11.520
I trust you, you know I do. You and I
1265
01:09:11.680 --> 01:09:15.560
might have our petty disagreements, but uh you're the type
1266
01:09:15.600 --> 01:09:18.600
of man I know that's uh your in your integrities
1267
01:09:18.760 --> 01:09:23.479
or beyond approach. Uh I just want something a little
1268
01:09:23.560 --> 01:09:27.600
more than just conversation. Now. Uh, you and I have
1269
01:09:27.800 --> 01:09:30.880
had in in uh for years. We've dealt with a
1270
01:09:30.920 --> 01:09:34.520
lot of people, and we've had conversation good many times
1271
01:09:34.600 --> 01:09:36.479
and it a lot of times it's fell through. Hadn't
1272
01:09:36.479 --> 01:09:40.720
it like that? You tay that? Huh?
1273
01:09:41.000 --> 01:09:42.399
I get you would tain that well?
1274
01:09:42.399 --> 01:09:45.159
All right? So uh, when you when you're dealing with
1275
01:09:45.279 --> 01:09:49.000
something that could mean your life and these people aren't
1276
01:09:49.000 --> 01:09:53.000
playing you gotta you gotta you gonna have some proof there,
1277
01:09:53.039 --> 01:09:56.199
You just don't you When you're doing business, I mean work,
1278
01:09:56.279 --> 01:09:59.399
no uh, a vocal agreement and a handshake. So sometimes
1279
01:09:59.439 --> 01:10:02.039
it's okay. But when you're playing for your life in
1280
01:10:02.079 --> 01:10:05.520
their high states. Uh, I'm not only my life, but
1281
01:10:05.680 --> 01:10:07.279
like I'm my wife and kid that they go you know.
1282
01:10:08.960 --> 01:10:11.399
I mean, uh, fifteen years ago, I might have taken
1283
01:10:11.439 --> 01:10:14.199
a chance with these guys, but that isn't now.
1284
01:10:14.399 --> 01:10:14.720
I was.
1285
01:10:14.840 --> 01:10:16.880
I'm a nine year old son, I got a wife. Well,
1286
01:10:17.159 --> 01:10:19.720
my wife got a little political job down her. You
1287
01:10:19.800 --> 01:10:22.039
know that she's on civil service. A god dame, I mean,
1288
01:10:23.920 --> 01:10:27.359
I can completely destroy myself. You know if people could
1289
01:10:27.399 --> 01:10:31.439
destroy me, I'll put it like that, and they might do.
1290
01:10:31.560 --> 01:10:33.880
Fact, I don't know what to tell you know what
1291
01:10:34.039 --> 01:10:37.239
does he I know that you're now, I know.
1292
01:10:37.359 --> 01:10:39.239
That that you're you're a good friend to love. It's
1293
01:10:39.279 --> 01:10:40.720
over there. I know that you know a lot of
1294
01:10:40.760 --> 01:10:44.199
those people at NBC. Uh. And I'm not trying to
1295
01:10:44.279 --> 01:10:45.840
play any god dame games.
1296
01:10:48.199 --> 01:10:48.319
Uh.
1297
01:10:48.359 --> 01:10:50.000
I might I might cont a lot of people in
1298
01:10:50.039 --> 01:10:52.439
my life. I however, have ever I've ever conned you,
1299
01:10:54.000 --> 01:10:57.199
have ever read a con you eron or even tried to.
1300
01:10:57.319 --> 01:10:59.279
I mean I I've heckled you a few times. We've
1301
01:10:59.279 --> 01:11:02.039
had our party this agreements. When we come down to cools,
1302
01:11:02.159 --> 01:11:04.840
I got damn facts. I never should have with you
1303
01:11:04.920 --> 01:11:06.640
that way, Zach.
1304
01:11:06.800 --> 01:11:08.920
I don't know this for sure. There have been times
1305
01:11:08.960 --> 01:11:10.720
I suspect that you have, but that it is an
1306
01:11:10.760 --> 01:11:13.600
important right now, let me say something to you, owing
1307
01:11:13.640 --> 01:11:15.239
and go as a teach you what I say. Would
1308
01:11:15.239 --> 01:11:16.359
you call me at home.
1309
01:11:16.520 --> 01:11:17.760
Run Saturday morning?
1310
01:11:18.000 --> 01:11:18.199
Yeah?
1311
01:11:19.239 --> 01:11:21.279
Uh, Friday morning, Friday?
1312
01:11:22.000 --> 01:11:22.199
Yeah?
1313
01:11:23.279 --> 01:11:23.840
And that is.
1314
01:11:25.760 --> 01:11:29.399
At uh the time has come to everybody to tell
1315
01:11:29.479 --> 01:11:33.439
the truth. I mean there's been a uh the community
1316
01:11:33.600 --> 01:11:37.760
is in a myth of confusion about this.
1317
01:11:37.960 --> 01:11:40.880
Might even like cigarettes or cools and.
1318
01:11:42.720 --> 01:11:46.319
The starting with you, y you you you sometimes played
1319
01:11:46.399 --> 01:11:49.199
games with Uh've seen little bits here?
1320
01:11:49.520 --> 01:11:53.000
Yeah, no, center, I play games. I'm not playing games
1321
01:11:53.039 --> 01:11:56.399
there Alright, this this this is a deadly serious game.
1322
01:11:56.520 --> 01:11:58.159
All right, Well what what?
1323
01:11:58.399 --> 01:11:59.960
That's what I'm the point I'm trying to make.
1324
01:12:00.000 --> 01:12:04.279
I think it is a deafinely serious game, and sometimes
1325
01:12:04.520 --> 01:12:08.560
deadly serious games dealing with truth can can bring about
1326
01:12:08.680 --> 01:12:11.920
pretty hard reaction from people for home truth as a
1327
01:12:12.079 --> 01:12:17.479
danger now lib In as democracy where where people have
1328
01:12:17.640 --> 01:12:19.159
to take their chances.
1329
01:12:18.840 --> 01:12:22.000
With the Louisiana and the democracy where the guy can
1330
01:12:22.079 --> 01:12:24.760
the guy's the governor backs this guy up on everything
1331
01:12:24.800 --> 01:12:27.319
he do he does. I tried to explain to this man.
1332
01:12:27.359 --> 01:12:30.359
I said, uh that uh I told Sheridon, I said,
1333
01:12:30.399 --> 01:12:32.119
you and I could be sitting at the same table.
1334
01:12:32.479 --> 01:12:34.279
It could be two guys sitting at the table next
1335
01:12:34.319 --> 01:12:37.520
to a charity under Louisiana. Lord, it's a perfectly valid,
1336
01:12:37.680 --> 01:12:41.039
legitimate The two guys sitting across from as there could
1337
01:12:41.079 --> 01:12:44.600
pull guns on us. Cock the guns. You could shoot
1338
01:12:44.680 --> 01:12:46.199
one guy in the fence of your life, and I
1339
01:12:46.239 --> 01:12:49.159
could shoot the other. The district attorney in the Parish
1340
01:12:49.239 --> 01:12:51.760
of Orleans or any other perish in the state Louisiana
1341
01:12:51.840 --> 01:12:55.680
can prosecute whom he chooses. I said he could. He
1342
01:12:55.800 --> 01:12:58.119
could refuse to charge you for shooting the guy that
1343
01:12:58.279 --> 01:12:59.840
was gonna kill you, but he could try me for
1344
01:13:00.079 --> 01:13:01.159
waiting for the guy killed.
1345
01:13:01.479 --> 01:13:04.239
Well, sure, but that's not I'm I'm not keep in mind.
1346
01:13:04.279 --> 01:13:08.880
A democracy allowed for uh I I'm left for a
1347
01:13:09.039 --> 01:13:11.560
bird to it and do something about it. Avowed for
1348
01:13:11.680 --> 01:13:15.119
people to take over authority and abuse it and abear
1349
01:13:15.119 --> 01:13:17.479
is it destructive on him? This is what's been happening.
1350
01:13:17.680 --> 01:13:20.000
I know this, sue a s I know this troup
1351
01:13:20.079 --> 01:13:22.279
at the same time, y' you'll you'll if you if
1352
01:13:22.399 --> 01:13:25.479
if one of those Kangaroo court judges done here, somebody said,
1353
01:13:25.520 --> 01:13:27.520
he sends me to the penitentiary and I'm sitting there,
1354
01:13:27.920 --> 01:13:30.119
or they putting me in jail. I'm sitting in jail.
1355
01:13:30.479 --> 01:13:32.640
And who's gonna defend me. Nobody? They don't give a
1356
01:13:32.720 --> 01:13:36.279
daily but jack one. You know this yourself. I've been
1357
01:13:36.359 --> 01:13:38.920
such a uh, I'm non asset to this community. They
1358
01:13:39.000 --> 01:13:41.119
let me go down to sewer words and some quicker
1359
01:13:41.159 --> 01:13:42.600
than they with some bum and you know it, and
1360
01:13:42.680 --> 01:13:46.399
I know it. There be a goddamn glad to get
1361
01:13:46.479 --> 01:13:48.399
rid of me. Man, they they pull a chain on me.
1362
01:13:51.079 --> 01:13:52.960
You see, I'm gonna, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I got
1363
01:13:53.000 --> 01:13:55.720
a pretty tough situation to look at. And you uh,
1364
01:13:55.800 --> 01:13:57.840
y you know this, u uh uh uh. People in
1365
01:13:57.920 --> 01:14:02.680
this comm community don't love me anything. Uh No. People
1366
01:14:02.840 --> 01:14:04.880
uh there's many people scared of the death of me,
1367
01:14:05.039 --> 01:14:07.479
like Ben Cake. But the Time magazine said Jeesus should
1368
01:14:07.479 --> 01:14:09.439
be surprised that people that fear you, they're scared of
1369
01:14:09.479 --> 01:14:11.640
the death of you. They say you're coming are the
1370
01:14:11.720 --> 01:14:13.520
people they seem to kind of like you, but they
1371
01:14:13.600 --> 01:14:14.199
still fear you.
1372
01:14:16.840 --> 01:14:19.880
Uh uh I think for some people because you said, ma'am,
1373
01:14:20.079 --> 01:14:24.359
I'm predictaball I did, you never know what gon be down?
1374
01:14:25.159 --> 01:14:26.079
But that's well, we're not.
1375
01:14:27.000 --> 01:14:30.199
That's the back Yeah right, Well, I'm not playing games.
1376
01:14:30.239 --> 01:14:32.800
There's no game here. I'm not tryna manipulate. There's no
1377
01:14:33.000 --> 01:14:35.119
chests involved. This is straight out.
1378
01:14:35.800 --> 01:14:35.920
Uh.
1379
01:14:36.119 --> 01:14:38.199
I don't mind getting up there. I pull the whole
1380
01:14:38.239 --> 01:14:40.560
goddamn thing and I'll bring at least three other people
1381
01:14:40.640 --> 01:14:42.680
in the thing to cooperate my testimony. But I'm not
1382
01:14:42.760 --> 01:14:44.680
even gonna give I mean, I'm I even I've got
1383
01:14:44.720 --> 01:14:47.159
everything documented. I went through everything I had the other day.
1384
01:14:47.159 --> 01:14:49.520
I pulled stuff out of safety deposit bauk you uh
1385
01:14:49.880 --> 01:14:52.560
the other day. Uh, I've got stuff in a file
1386
01:14:52.880 --> 01:14:55.439
that I can show up. Here's why it happened, here's
1387
01:14:55.479 --> 01:14:57.640
the people, here's the background out on the whole thing.
1388
01:14:58.479 --> 01:15:01.119
And then or not you wanna put this continuity, water
1389
01:15:01.279 --> 01:15:04.119
will write it and this is what I'll use. And
1390
01:15:04.239 --> 01:15:06.600
here's what I'll say, And if it doesn't blow Garrison
1391
01:15:06.680 --> 01:15:08.159
On in the water, if it doesn't go off like
1392
01:15:08.239 --> 01:15:10.239
an h boum bomb around the world, I'll kiss you,
1393
01:15:10.279 --> 01:15:12.760
asked the Middlican now street. But I'm not gonna mention
1394
01:15:12.880 --> 01:15:15.880
the people involved. I'm not even gonna uh I. I
1395
01:15:16.039 --> 01:15:18.760
I gave him I a perhaps story about this thing
1396
01:15:18.840 --> 01:15:22.279
the other day. Uh. I gave it twice. And I
1397
01:15:22.279 --> 01:15:24.640
shouldn't have done that, because these guys are more approximately
1398
01:15:24.680 --> 01:15:27.239
what I'm gonna get at now. But uh, it's it's
1399
01:15:27.279 --> 01:15:29.840
hot enough that it'll you'll, you'll you'll ricochet around this
1400
01:15:29.960 --> 01:15:32.800
goddamn go buddy, and it'll it'll brand this guy. He's true.
1401
01:15:33.359 --> 01:15:36.199
Believe me, I wanta tell you he's true. And when
1402
01:15:36.239 --> 01:15:38.159
these these two goons drove me home and told me
1403
01:15:38.359 --> 01:15:39.920
we want things documented, and I said, what do you
1404
01:15:39.960 --> 01:15:43.399
want me to do? Break in and take documents? And
1405
01:15:43.520 --> 01:15:45.560
I said, well, that wouldn't be a good idea or anything.
1406
01:15:45.640 --> 01:15:50.279
What the white ZELLANDU and uh and uh and I've
1407
01:15:50.359 --> 01:15:53.239
un I said, you want me to buy a goddamn
1408
01:15:53.279 --> 01:15:57.119
crowbar ruh. Well, I'm one of the only guys to
1409
01:15:57.239 --> 01:15:58.960
ever come up with the natural afford stand of the
1410
01:15:59.000 --> 01:16:02.000
Secret Service report including there's five pages of that and
1411
01:16:02.159 --> 01:16:05.720
six pages of of of yet classified FDI documents attached
1412
01:16:05.720 --> 01:16:07.720
to an actual Afforto stat. I don't mean something that
1413
01:16:07.800 --> 01:16:10.800
somebody wrote down and copied, like your reporters had to do.
1414
01:16:10.920 --> 01:16:14.159
I got an actual Foorto stat. Above it the signatures
1415
01:16:14.199 --> 01:16:18.119
of John Garrison Anthony Wright. The signatures are reproduced on
1416
01:16:18.239 --> 01:16:22.439
this thing. It's an actual document. I come up with
1417
01:16:22.560 --> 01:16:25.359
some good stuff, now, believe me, and I wouldn't give
1418
01:16:25.399 --> 01:16:28.880
it to Garrison. I turned around and gave copies to
1419
01:16:28.920 --> 01:16:33.039
Irwin Diamond. I went up there and told him, I said,
1420
01:16:33.079 --> 01:16:36.319
you know your plan and I had one distinction, one similarity.
1421
01:16:36.399 --> 01:16:40.079
We're parallel. We've both been blasted, and we're both about
1422
01:16:40.119 --> 01:16:43.199
the same age, and no matter what we do hereafter
1423
01:16:43.359 --> 01:16:47.760
we're marked. I said, I can't find your class name
1424
01:16:47.760 --> 01:16:50.439
anywhere in this thing. And I give copies to all
1425
01:16:50.520 --> 01:16:53.319
the news media. I imagine Garrison they ran off lt
1426
01:16:53.399 --> 01:16:56.239
A runoff copies for him. I don't know, but I
1427
01:16:56.359 --> 01:16:58.960
told Garrison, is you're recippoening me as a witnesser before
1428
01:16:59.000 --> 01:17:01.439
your goddamn graduate. I'll say I'll take the fifth because
1429
01:17:01.439 --> 01:17:04.159
anything I might say they branded me as a drunken
1430
01:17:04.239 --> 01:17:07.479
bomb and a conveyor a bad information. And I said,
1431
01:17:07.520 --> 01:17:09.720
anything I say could be taken double entran d. I
1432
01:17:09.760 --> 01:17:12.640
could be holding perjury. And I said, so I'll say nothing.
1433
01:17:12.680 --> 01:17:15.640
I take the fifth. You can't touch me. I said,
1434
01:17:15.880 --> 01:17:18.560
anybody this foenish me in this thing. And I said,
1435
01:17:18.600 --> 01:17:22.079
I use this as an authority, taty document. I've done
1436
01:17:22.079 --> 01:17:24.000
that much to man. I'm said, goddamn man, he could
1437
01:17:24.079 --> 01:17:26.680
kill me. And am I going like, if I do this,
1438
01:17:27.239 --> 01:17:30.239
the may will resort to something. And don't you kid yourself.
1439
01:17:30.319 --> 01:17:32.560
He's got clandestine connections and you know it and I
1440
01:17:32.680 --> 01:17:38.000
know it. I'm not above getting killed. And I got
1441
01:17:38.079 --> 01:17:40.439
no gun from it. I can't defend myself. I've been
1442
01:17:40.479 --> 01:17:41.880
carrying a gun at night when I go out with
1443
01:17:41.920 --> 01:17:46.199
my family illegally, and so I've had some things happened
1444
01:17:46.199 --> 01:17:48.239
to me Aron, and I haven't open my mouth about.
1445
01:17:48.840 --> 01:17:49.399
What are your man?
1446
01:17:50.800 --> 01:17:52.319
I had this shit kicked out of me two or
1447
01:17:52.359 --> 01:17:57.840
three times I have. I don't know by whom, What
1448
01:17:57.920 --> 01:18:01.119
do you mean? You don't know the goons, I don't
1449
01:18:01.119 --> 01:18:03.479
know who they are look like picnics. So I they're
1450
01:18:03.560 --> 01:18:05.479
up in my neighborhood, Big Nick Stone live up here.
1451
01:18:06.560 --> 01:18:08.560
I had threats on the telephone, and I got an
1452
01:18:08.680 --> 01:18:11.800
enlisted number. I'm not listening to directory?
1453
01:18:12.039 --> 01:18:13.920
Are you talking about since this thing started?
1454
01:18:14.199 --> 01:18:19.960
Absolutely? Absolutely? I had the ship kicked out of me
1455
01:18:20.000 --> 01:18:21.439
while I was in Houston. Why do you think i'd
1456
01:18:21.479 --> 01:18:25.279
come back here? It's got the bastards found out where
1457
01:18:25.279 --> 01:18:25.520
I was.
1458
01:18:28.079 --> 01:18:30.319
Are you sure it wasn't the cards he got dropping?
1459
01:18:30.680 --> 01:18:32.920
Oh no, sir, Now I am bunk combi.
1460
01:18:33.479 --> 01:18:37.159
No sure, sure, no, sure, I was going there now, listen,
1461
01:18:37.239 --> 01:18:39.359
I was going. I had no telephone in the little
1462
01:18:39.359 --> 01:18:41.479
apartment that I was in. Yeah, I had to go
1463
01:18:41.560 --> 01:18:43.319
in the guy's office in any of his house to
1464
01:18:43.439 --> 01:18:45.800
use his phone. Yeah, and I was way in back
1465
01:18:45.840 --> 01:18:48.199
where nobody could have found me. Nobody knew where I was.
1466
01:18:48.359 --> 01:18:50.760
In fact, uh, this guy, I'd go with him in
1467
01:18:50.800 --> 01:18:53.399
the grocery store to pick up beer and stuff now
1468
01:18:53.479 --> 01:18:55.399
once in a while at night. One time to call
1469
01:18:55.520 --> 01:18:57.119
my wife at the house, I had to go across
1470
01:18:57.239 --> 01:18:58.960
the way to the phone booth over there, and and
1471
01:18:59.359 --> 01:19:01.600
they got me on the goddamn street. They've been sitting
1472
01:19:01.640 --> 01:19:04.319
out there. They found out where the hell I was.
1473
01:19:04.439 --> 01:19:06.319
Another next time they knocked at the door of the
1474
01:19:06.359 --> 01:19:09.560
apartment when nobody was around, nobody was up front the
1475
01:19:09.640 --> 01:19:12.920
front house, up front or upstairs over me. And that
1476
01:19:13.079 --> 01:19:18.279
was enough. That that was enough. And I waited til
1477
01:19:18.359 --> 01:19:20.279
daylight the next morning, and I slipped out of there.
1478
01:19:21.199 --> 01:19:24.159
And you're gonna recognize, no sir, No sir man. It's
1479
01:19:24.279 --> 01:19:29.920
dark as it was fits dark at night, no sir,
1480
01:19:30.000 --> 01:19:32.079
And I've I've just happened here right here in the waile.
1481
01:19:32.079 --> 01:19:37.279
It's when it was dark. And I've had calls on
1482
01:19:37.319 --> 01:19:39.319
the phone. You better not talk to the wrong people.
1483
01:19:39.399 --> 01:19:41.439
You uh blah blah blah blah and all kinds of
1484
01:19:41.520 --> 01:19:47.079
crap on the phone, Spanish and English. Uh, people talking
1485
01:19:47.159 --> 01:19:49.199
with an accident, whether the accent was good or bad.
1486
01:19:49.279 --> 01:19:53.600
I don't know the accents. I couldn't trace whether they
1487
01:19:53.600 --> 01:19:55.520
were German or Spanish or what they were, you know
1488
01:19:55.560 --> 01:19:57.079
what I mean. And I've been I'm I I look
1489
01:19:57.119 --> 01:20:00.600
pretty good. Uh uh. I can tell just above what
1490
01:20:00.720 --> 01:20:03.119
guy of access that the person's got. You can't. I
1491
01:20:03.159 --> 01:20:05.079
think it's a lot of I think people are putting
1492
01:20:05.119 --> 01:20:06.319
on funny voices, you know.
1493
01:20:09.760 --> 01:20:09.840
Ya.
1494
01:20:10.119 --> 01:20:12.600
I don't know what he chose you to do. All
1495
01:20:12.720 --> 01:20:14.720
I can do I don't know what the answer is.
1496
01:20:14.800 --> 01:20:16.880
Well, see, I know about here's the deal, Aron. I
1497
01:20:16.880 --> 01:20:18.640
don't want to talk about the CIA, and I don't
1498
01:20:18.640 --> 01:20:22.279
want to talk about the ammunition or any of that bullshit.
1499
01:20:22.760 --> 01:20:23.800
I was in on this stuff.
1500
01:20:23.840 --> 01:20:26.800
I saw this stuff. I know all about it. There's
1501
01:20:26.840 --> 01:20:28.920
nothing about it. Goddamn it that I don't know.
1502
01:20:29.359 --> 01:20:29.800
What do you mean?
1503
01:20:30.359 --> 01:20:33.640
What s the ammunition from slumbers all that stuff that
1504
01:20:33.720 --> 01:20:36.159
was back in January sixty one? That stuff was Jordan
1505
01:20:36.239 --> 01:20:40.600
Bannister's office. Yeah, uh, we would we had a key
1506
01:20:40.720 --> 01:20:41.840
for that goddamn thing.
1507
01:20:43.000 --> 01:20:44.319
Had you got a key having?
1508
01:20:44.920 --> 01:20:47.319
Yeah, we didn't cut me locks or none of that bullshit.
1509
01:20:47.800 --> 01:20:49.680
In fact, after that, they were using a runaway right
1510
01:20:49.720 --> 01:20:51.520
over that slum magee to pull the stuff out and
1511
01:20:51.560 --> 01:20:54.960
flat to Miami with Bannister went down and got emmy
1512
01:20:55.039 --> 01:20:57.960
Lloyd was was the manager here. That wasn't me. I
1513
01:20:58.039 --> 01:21:00.439
don't know. Yeah, for a slim masammy boy. He's not
1514
01:21:00.520 --> 01:21:02.640
a president, not a Houston. He won't admit this wok.
1515
01:21:02.840 --> 01:21:04.720
But Bannster put the fight mail to him after we
1516
01:21:04.760 --> 01:21:06.720
could put those those those arms out of there. They
1517
01:21:06.760 --> 01:21:10.880
were owned by the DGSS, the Rex General Service Patil
1518
01:21:10.920 --> 01:21:14.680
who there was the anti Gallis factions. Though those arms
1519
01:21:14.720 --> 01:21:17.319
were in the United States illegally, they were gonna be
1520
01:21:17.359 --> 01:21:22.680
used against Martinique and wanat'll pay. I don't even Cia
1521
01:21:22.880 --> 01:21:24.479
knows what I know or not. I don't give a damn,
1522
01:21:24.479 --> 01:21:26.079
but I I don't wanna talk about I never told
1523
01:21:26.119 --> 01:21:30.960
anybody this stuff, and I never will. The stuff was
1524
01:21:31.000 --> 01:21:33.319
sat down at Guanamar America. You con turned to Guatemala.
1525
01:21:35.840 --> 01:21:38.399
That helped the Cubans. Originally he'd been working with some
1526
01:21:38.479 --> 01:21:40.920
people in Allani and then somebody give him a connection
1527
01:21:41.000 --> 01:21:43.119
to CIA. I know how that happened. That happened through
1528
01:21:43.119 --> 01:21:45.880
applying post office box in New York. I know exactly
1529
01:21:45.960 --> 01:21:52.279
how it all was there when Vanners there was thick already.
1530
01:21:52.840 --> 01:21:57.000
This is back in sixty one. You remember when he
1531
01:21:57.039 --> 01:21:58.840
all of a sudden he got a lot of confidence
1532
01:21:58.880 --> 01:22:03.000
behind him. They started carrying his gun again. This and that.
1533
01:22:03.159 --> 01:22:05.960
You know, he got a letter of market signed by
1534
01:22:06.079 --> 01:22:12.199
Robert Kennedy. Dad, You didn't notice, did you? Wow? That's right,
1535
01:22:13.239 --> 01:22:20.640
Very had a letter of mar your problem absolutely. In fact, uh,
1536
01:22:21.039 --> 01:22:23.359
everybody that was working with Banister had anything to do
1537
01:22:23.399 --> 01:22:25.439
with this, had a photostat of the letter of market
1538
01:22:25.600 --> 01:22:27.960
t and attached to it was a was a letter
1539
01:22:28.000 --> 01:22:30.720
of assignment from Guy Banis from his letter at Station
1540
01:22:30.840 --> 01:22:36.640
ear over his signature, notorized by Grady Durham Dick. That
1541
01:22:36.800 --> 01:22:44.359
one pop up manister Master covered for everybody. So I
1542
01:22:44.479 --> 01:22:47.159
mean we had cart blot from everything from from from
1543
01:22:47.279 --> 01:22:53.199
grand theft and murder anybody my grand theft well in
1544
01:22:53.319 --> 01:22:56.359
service of your government to seize arms, uh there illegally
1545
01:22:56.399 --> 01:22:58.800
within this nation which might be used against another wise
1546
01:22:58.840 --> 01:23:03.880
friendly nation or nations. I suppose the same man directed.
1547
01:23:04.279 --> 01:23:10.159
They didn't say, how can sign back Robert Kennedy, the
1548
01:23:10.239 --> 01:23:13.880
Attorney General of the United States. These things were a
1549
01:23:13.920 --> 01:23:15.239
lift if by courier.
1550
01:23:15.840 --> 01:23:15.960
Uh.
1551
01:23:16.000 --> 01:23:19.319
The one that Martin Martin sand was made out the
1552
01:23:19.359 --> 01:23:24.119
bultee in the concier was a joint letter. I never
1553
01:23:24.239 --> 01:23:28.479
signed by Robert Kennedy. I was delivered to Martin's and
1554
01:23:28.680 --> 01:23:35.319
Cotcha by courier in hand. All these letters were delivered
1555
01:23:35.359 --> 01:23:42.439
in hand. I don't wanna talk about that bullshit. I
1556
01:23:42.479 --> 01:23:44.199
don't want to hit at the core of this situation,
1557
01:23:44.880 --> 01:23:52.640
the fraud. What brob comparison and he's banned his band
1558
01:23:52.680 --> 01:23:57.000
of gangsters. That's all I'm interested in. I don't want
1559
01:23:57.000 --> 01:23:59.399
to involve my nation's security. If I don't want to
1560
01:23:59.439 --> 01:24:01.840
involve that national security. As I wrote a hailbox and
1561
01:24:01.920 --> 01:24:04.159
Russell Lung I got letters, and I called plotted and
1562
01:24:04.239 --> 01:24:06.560
off the goddamn case, told them not to sue the government.
1563
01:24:07.399 --> 01:24:12.479
I can prove that Anthony Garretts and John Rice bigoted, falsified, bigoted,
1564
01:24:12.520 --> 01:24:19.159
as they are falsified the damn reports that they took
1565
01:24:19.199 --> 01:24:22.800
in their synopsis the report. I predicated their report upon
1566
01:24:23.039 --> 01:24:26.680
the words of David W. Ferry. I had four witnesses
1567
01:24:26.720 --> 01:24:28.399
in the house at the time besides my wife and
1568
01:24:28.479 --> 01:24:31.279
myself and my kid that heard it. I heard what
1569
01:24:31.479 --> 01:24:31.720
went on.
1570
01:24:33.479 --> 01:24:35.680
You mean when they interviewed for it, when.
1571
01:24:35.560 --> 01:24:40.399
They interviewed me, and I could hit Richus Kennedy. Do
1572
01:24:40.439 --> 01:24:42.600
you think I'd ruined a man of twenty years behind
1573
01:24:42.720 --> 01:24:47.039
him about ready to retire. On top of that, Marion Johnson,
1574
01:24:47.079 --> 01:24:51.079
the archivist turned around and released this thing after on
1575
01:24:51.319 --> 01:24:55.800
three occasions I'd invoke confidential inform and immunity and it
1576
01:24:55.960 --> 01:25:01.159
was all right. It was conceded. I got this on tape,
1577
01:25:02.920 --> 01:25:05.359
I got the recordings on it. Were they where were they?
1578
01:25:05.399 --> 01:25:08.800
Where they conceded it? And you know, what I could do.
1579
01:25:09.239 --> 01:25:11.239
The tender mercy is the legal profession. You know what
1580
01:25:11.359 --> 01:25:14.399
they do with something like this. Every case it was
1581
01:25:14.399 --> 01:25:16.720
a confidential informant on they couldn't get a conviction. They
1582
01:25:17.039 --> 01:25:19.159
they start filing appeals. Oh man, you can think this
1583
01:25:19.239 --> 01:25:21.760
one over. I couldn't do this to my government. I
1584
01:25:21.800 --> 01:25:23.800
couldn't do this to law enforcement. That's exactly what I
1585
01:25:23.880 --> 01:25:27.880
throw Hale and buck Long. That's exactly what I told
1586
01:25:27.920 --> 01:25:29.840
my lawyer. Forget the suit, to hell with it. I'll
1587
01:25:29.880 --> 01:25:36.119
take it. I'll live it down. I got four stats
1588
01:25:36.159 --> 01:25:39.760
to the letters whore I can show you. Now do
1589
01:25:39.800 --> 01:25:41.720
you what kind of a what kind of uh A
1590
01:25:41.840 --> 01:25:45.960
bastard do you think I am? I can't destroy men
1591
01:25:46.000 --> 01:25:48.119
that it might Uh. I can't destroy the good that
1592
01:25:48.199 --> 01:25:50.000
these men might have done in their fast and they're
1593
01:25:50.039 --> 01:25:51.680
they're entitled, their pensions, they're there.
1594
01:25:52.199 --> 01:25:52.319
Uh.
1595
01:25:52.479 --> 01:25:55.119
I can't defame them because I've been I've been degraded.
1596
01:25:56.000 --> 01:25:57.800
I don't I don't appreciate what they did. But there
1597
01:25:57.920 --> 01:26:04.119
was good cause for doing it. Because uh even if
1598
01:26:04.159 --> 01:26:06.359
I even what I said might have been a lie
1599
01:26:06.399 --> 01:26:10.439
at the time, uh uh. And there's a good reason
1600
01:26:10.560 --> 01:26:14.920
to They had to protect ferry the the the the
1601
01:26:15.119 --> 01:26:17.600
FAA had been going to cancel the license and the
1602
01:26:17.800 --> 01:26:22.319
FAA investigators were told to lay off because he was
1603
01:26:22.399 --> 01:26:27.520
involved with ci UH operations. Uh I, I wasn't aware
1604
01:26:27.520 --> 01:26:30.239
of how deeply involved, for he wasn't til till recently.
1605
01:26:31.119 --> 01:26:33.279
And uh uh I can see now where there would
1606
01:26:33.279 --> 01:26:36.279
be implications and the spersions cast against CIA that would
1607
01:26:36.319 --> 01:26:38.279
that would hurt them. I mean, these these factors give
1608
01:26:38.319 --> 01:26:41.399
their lives every day for our nation's defense. And there's
1609
01:26:41.399 --> 01:26:43.039
a bunch of idiots when you when you're right to
1610
01:26:43.439 --> 01:26:45.479
the public, you're talking to a five year old child
1611
01:26:45.640 --> 01:26:48.720
eron and these people saying, Ah, the CI ain't planning
1612
01:26:48.720 --> 01:26:51.640
to kill the president. Uh, you can't tell these nutty
1613
01:26:51.680 --> 01:26:55.039
newspaper reporters that that's why I wanna get Uh. I
1614
01:26:55.199 --> 01:26:56.840
like to see this god damn thing stopped.
1615
01:26:57.720 --> 01:26:59.640
Well, you don't think that need to take the reporter?
1616
01:27:00.800 --> 01:27:05.319
I Well, no, that's what the asshole public, the majority
1617
01:27:05.359 --> 01:27:07.079
of people will think in the long run, the way
1618
01:27:07.119 --> 01:27:10.680
it's going there was a bunch of asspholes or all
1619
01:27:10.840 --> 01:27:15.760
all all chief slow Indians involved in this goddamn thing
1620
01:27:15.800 --> 01:27:18.399
that acted dependent and then'll blame an organization as they
1621
01:27:18.479 --> 01:27:20.199
do they did the front day and they had the
1622
01:27:20.720 --> 01:27:23.399
if the French are the same goddamn way these annagardus
1623
01:27:23.439 --> 01:27:25.199
and this is an anti Gallois pocket. You know what
1624
01:27:25.279 --> 01:27:30.479
went on here, and that was a very serious thing.
1625
01:27:30.600 --> 01:27:30.720
Hell.
1626
01:27:30.960 --> 01:27:33.520
They they captured four French generals and hung one of 'em.
1627
01:27:33.600 --> 01:27:35.840
This band of the French foreign ladiship that the Corsica
1628
01:27:35.960 --> 01:27:43.119
back then over that Modernique Guadalopei or Algerian situation. These
1629
01:27:43.159 --> 01:27:46.800
were the French munitions in there. Man, Slumberger was in
1630
01:27:46.880 --> 01:27:48.920
on it. Uh, French Slumberg is a French old company
1631
01:27:49.039 --> 01:27:54.279
home office, Paris, France. They are anti Gaudss. There sub
1632
01:27:54.319 --> 01:27:56.560
various French concerns in on that that make the slumber
1633
01:27:56.640 --> 01:28:06.920
game look like a corner grocery store. Man, I don't
1634
01:28:06.960 --> 01:28:10.600
wanna get into all that operation. I don't wanna get
1635
01:28:10.640 --> 01:28:15.439
into it. Un proved Garrison a fraud. My whole quiet
1636
01:28:15.560 --> 01:28:17.800
rode away and just mentioned what happened in relation to
1637
01:28:17.880 --> 01:28:20.199
the David Ferry in nineteen sixty three and how I
1638
01:28:20.319 --> 01:28:21.560
perimitted up till the day.
1639
01:28:21.680 --> 01:28:23.399
How can you prove that Garret.
1640
01:28:23.359 --> 01:28:26.800
Was a fraud because the whole goddamn thing was initiated
1641
01:28:26.840 --> 01:28:28.960
by Fry I know, I know how his investigation had
1642
01:28:29.000 --> 01:28:33.960
started with you. No, it wasn't with me. I didn't
1643
01:28:33.960 --> 01:28:35.760
talk to him til the fifties, where you all full
1644
01:28:35.800 --> 01:28:39.520
of shit? Uh, I know how it got started through
1645
01:28:39.520 --> 01:28:41.680
a couple of Shyes. The lawyers here in town interviewed
1646
01:28:41.800 --> 01:28:43.680
very in a deposition, and they asked you a bunch
1647
01:28:43.680 --> 01:28:46.199
of foolish questions, and he signed the goddamn thing.
1648
01:28:46.399 --> 01:28:50.000
You mean about that traffic thing? Yeah, I don't believe I.
1649
01:28:50.239 --> 01:28:53.600
I don't think that traffic accident report shows what you
1650
01:28:53.760 --> 01:28:54.680
claim it does at all.
1651
01:28:55.000 --> 01:28:57.920
It's not a report not to report itself. But they
1652
01:28:57.960 --> 01:28:59.960
did ask him during the interview a bunch of stuff,
1653
01:29:00.800 --> 01:29:04.159
and they turned around, Uh, you're tu you're just gassing. No, no, no,
1654
01:29:04.319 --> 01:29:06.039
because they heard him do it. They may not have
1655
01:29:06.119 --> 01:29:07.880
put it all down in writing, cause I never seen
1656
01:29:07.920 --> 01:29:10.800
the deposition, but they I understand they taped the goddamn
1657
01:29:10.840 --> 01:29:12.600
thing or something else, and they had it, and then
1658
01:29:12.680 --> 01:29:14.920
when somebody else got a hold of it, well then
1659
01:29:14.960 --> 01:29:17.399
they turned around and manipulated it around it and started
1660
01:29:17.399 --> 01:29:21.520
this goddamn investigation. Gone. But I didn't talk to me
1661
01:29:21.600 --> 01:29:23.439
in the fifth of December. I'll tell you who blew
1662
01:29:23.479 --> 01:29:25.800
the whistle and the whole goddamn thing was Joseph Samuel
1663
01:29:25.840 --> 01:29:30.600
newbrou junior at the school, with Charlie ray Warden and
1664
01:29:30.720 --> 01:29:33.319
carl Brown, his lawyer. And then after they the interviewed
1665
01:29:33.359 --> 01:29:35.720
Knew new Bru, after the interviewed me, the interviewed le Braun,
1666
01:29:35.760 --> 01:29:37.479
and he walked right up to the to d didn't
1667
01:29:37.479 --> 01:29:39.600
see everybody. The elevator cheft. The single voice says, I
1668
01:29:39.760 --> 01:29:42.560
guess what these assholes were are investigating now? He says,
1669
01:29:42.600 --> 01:29:46.000
the assassination of President Kennedy. That's what started. It was
1670
01:29:46.039 --> 01:29:48.800
about the sixth of the seventh of December, somewhere around there.
1671
01:29:49.600 --> 01:29:52.079
He talked to meet the fifth he'd been working on
1672
01:29:52.159 --> 01:29:55.720
the damning since last u uh uh November. Who work
1673
01:29:55.800 --> 01:29:58.479
out Jerson had been working on sis November. What does
1674
01:29:58.640 --> 01:30:00.960
Joe new Brun all about. I don't know. He worked
1675
01:30:01.000 --> 01:30:04.239
in Banister's office and so did everybody else involved h
1676
01:30:04.880 --> 01:30:07.319
or had worked in and out of there. So they
1677
01:30:07.399 --> 01:30:13.760
talked to everybody in the course of events, and so
1678
01:30:13.800 --> 01:30:16.239
it was just like, I am he's anti Garrison. Believe me,
1679
01:30:17.800 --> 01:30:18.760
he's anti.
1680
01:30:21.439 --> 01:30:23.840
Oh, I don't think. I kind of whether you're anti
1681
01:30:24.000 --> 01:30:26.880
Garrison and not think the question is whether or not.
1682
01:30:29.000 --> 01:30:30.479
I I don't like the way they handle me. They
1683
01:30:30.560 --> 01:30:32.359
told me to buy a goddamn crow bar and go
1684
01:30:32.439 --> 01:30:34.439
out and steal like you, owing to be a fucking burglar,
1685
01:30:35.920 --> 01:30:37.680
or they're gonna lean on me or ross me around
1686
01:30:37.720 --> 01:30:40.159
in my house, and all that bullshit I could give you,
1687
01:30:40.199 --> 01:30:41.920
I c I can. In other words, I don't want
1688
01:30:41.960 --> 01:30:44.039
to lay it out chronologic border. I gotta I got
1689
01:30:44.159 --> 01:30:46.479
a good I got a good case, if not better
1690
01:30:46.600 --> 01:30:49.880
than bobaf and the rest of these passes. And Sharon
1691
01:30:49.920 --> 01:30:52.199
tells me he's got twenty people driping their heads off
1692
01:30:52.439 --> 01:30:55.840
where they offered him money and nobody else. Well, shit,
1693
01:30:55.920 --> 01:30:59.520
they paid me money and can't prove it. Who pays
1694
01:30:59.520 --> 01:31:02.359
the bush? That's just it. You're pulling the story out
1695
01:31:02.399 --> 01:31:02.640
of me, and.
1696
01:31:02.640 --> 01:31:04.279
I right, well, who takes them out?
1697
01:31:06.039 --> 01:31:08.119
Well, here's the thing. I mean, I I got something
1698
01:31:08.119 --> 01:31:10.199
to say. If I get onto TV, I'll say something.
1699
01:31:11.439 --> 01:31:12.960
Are you gonna be able to back it out?
1700
01:31:13.279 --> 01:31:15.760
Ye? I will lay it out in a continuity, in
1701
01:31:15.880 --> 01:31:22.000
chronological order, and uh, I'll tell uh. I'll say, gentlemen,
1702
01:31:22.039 --> 01:31:23.479
here's what I got, And I'll tell my story in
1703
01:31:23.560 --> 01:31:25.479
chronological order, and they can put it and they can
1704
01:31:25.560 --> 01:31:32.119
type out the continuity and and and judge from that.
1705
01:31:32.319 --> 01:31:34.079
I'll try to document as much as I can. We
1706
01:31:34.199 --> 01:31:36.359
get the other people on the telephone and I'll verify
1707
01:31:36.439 --> 01:31:38.239
the damn stuff and let the other people down or
1708
01:31:38.279 --> 01:31:40.600
to sign AFFI David's on it, and perhaps put the
1709
01:31:40.680 --> 01:31:43.800
other people involved that they can cooperate my testimony. They
1710
01:31:43.800 --> 01:31:48.199
can get them on television too, and it'll flat end
1711
01:31:48.279 --> 01:31:51.880
the song of it. And he's which on believe what
1712
01:31:52.000 --> 01:31:52.359
I tell you.
1713
01:31:54.600 --> 01:31:54.880
And all.
1714
01:31:54.920 --> 01:31:57.279
We're gonna be paid for something like this, putting something
1715
01:31:57.359 --> 01:32:00.399
like this together. If I was a disinterested alarry, this
1716
01:32:00.520 --> 01:32:03.000
is something that a producer would charge five ten thousand
1717
01:32:03.039 --> 01:32:05.159
dollars for. Oh I don't want I don't wanna be
1718
01:32:05.319 --> 01:32:09.520
paid for anything. I just wanna be goddamn sure. At
1719
01:32:09.600 --> 01:32:12.800
least there's a thousand dollars or a letter of credit
1720
01:32:13.000 --> 01:32:17.560
or uh a letter accepting substantiate. There's there's been a
1721
01:32:17.680 --> 01:32:19.920
contract that these paths are gonna back me up. If
1722
01:32:19.920 --> 01:32:21.880
I got a phone on a buck, I don't want
1723
01:32:21.920 --> 01:32:23.800
the mind up or wind up exactly.
1724
01:32:24.079 --> 01:32:25.640
That kind of thing got to leave me out of
1725
01:32:25.960 --> 01:32:27.159
I mean, uh uh.
1726
01:32:27.079 --> 01:32:30.279
I'm not gonna act as the intermediary between you and
1727
01:32:30.399 --> 01:32:31.560
any news media.
1728
01:32:33.600 --> 01:32:34.960
Uh, that's something you have to do.
1729
01:32:35.079 --> 01:32:38.880
Play yourselves well, father, you're the last guy who I
1730
01:32:39.000 --> 01:32:43.560
might trust. They they they said, in other words, they
1731
01:32:43.640 --> 01:32:45.840
they they let me know that they're gonna use my
1732
01:32:46.000 --> 01:32:48.800
name anyway. They're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna, they're gonna
1733
01:32:48.840 --> 01:32:52.279
cut me down anyway. Uh, whether I cooperate or not,
1734
01:32:52.520 --> 01:32:55.640
you see what I mean. Either way, they're gonna crucify me.
1735
01:32:55.920 --> 01:32:58.399
So they're they're using pressure and extortion on mean, the
1736
01:32:58.479 --> 01:33:01.279
same goddamn thing in retross right, the thing that they
1737
01:33:01.720 --> 01:33:04.640
the hell or not eron. I don't believe that in
1738
01:33:04.800 --> 01:33:08.000
retrospect of doing the same goddamn that Garrisons does. Well,
1739
01:33:08.199 --> 01:33:11.800
see when you got trial by press where there's no defense,
1740
01:33:11.840 --> 01:33:15.560
there's no part you know, you know, you know, you
1741
01:33:15.600 --> 01:33:17.600
know what freedom of the pressure across the slide small
1742
01:33:17.640 --> 01:33:22.319
line of demarcation, don't you when they start editorializing, Oh, how.
1743
01:33:22.279 --> 01:33:22.920
Well I know it?
1744
01:33:24.079 --> 01:33:24.760
Don't you know that?
1745
01:33:24.880 --> 01:33:28.560
And I know it from what I know about I
1746
01:33:28.720 --> 01:33:29.439
don't believe that.
1747
01:33:32.359 --> 01:33:33.840
What branch of the service was he in.
1748
01:33:34.560 --> 01:33:37.239
He was in the army, Well, I don't care about
1749
01:33:37.239 --> 01:33:38.720
what he was in the Army. I'm talking about it.
1750
01:33:38.880 --> 01:33:41.119
He was in the CID what he or see I
1751
01:33:41.199 --> 01:33:42.920
see which compsecutor.
1752
01:33:42.399 --> 01:33:44.159
In the United States Department of Justice.
1753
01:33:44.199 --> 01:33:47.520
Well he was. He's an attorney. Yeah, sure, he's one
1754
01:33:47.560 --> 01:33:50.800
of your brothers at the bar. And he knows every
1755
01:33:50.840 --> 01:33:51.640
trick in the trade.
1756
01:33:53.239 --> 01:33:55.279
Believe me, he's very competile.
1757
01:33:55.640 --> 01:33:58.920
Yeah, that's what I mean, don't you in the words
1758
01:33:58.920 --> 01:34:00.600
he's brutal and ruthless. Let's say it.
1759
01:34:00.880 --> 01:34:03.199
But when you start kicking the word extortion around, I
1760
01:34:03.279 --> 01:34:04.039
don't believe.
1761
01:34:03.840 --> 01:34:05.000
You're gonna was.
1762
01:34:05.720 --> 01:34:08.239
And I told him his white male and black mail,
1763
01:34:08.279 --> 01:34:10.039
and he laughed, he knew what I was talking about.
1764
01:34:10.119 --> 01:34:13.119
And that's exactly what mans he used then in those
1765
01:34:13.239 --> 01:34:16.520
days on on whe uh on on why over there
1766
01:34:16.600 --> 01:34:20.680
with the with if I heard him do it, he
1767
01:34:20.800 --> 01:34:22.760
told him, you'll either do this or do that. I'll
1768
01:34:22.760 --> 01:34:27.439
blow a whistle on you. You give him no choice.
1769
01:34:28.279 --> 01:34:30.560
And that's exactly the position that they put me into. It.
1770
01:34:30.600 --> 01:34:32.039
They play a good game of chest. They may not
1771
01:34:32.199 --> 01:34:34.359
use the exact words, but this is what they're doing.
1772
01:34:35.560 --> 01:34:37.560
It amounts to the same thing. You get the same
1773
01:34:37.640 --> 01:34:39.079
answer to and to still make.
1774
01:34:39.039 --> 01:34:39.520
Four And.
1775
01:34:41.880 --> 01:34:44.600
They tell me and I've got to get going right well.
1776
01:34:44.680 --> 01:34:46.159
In other words, there and they tell me in one
1777
01:34:46.199 --> 01:34:48.359
breath they'll give me protection. In the next breath they
1778
01:34:48.399 --> 01:34:51.439
won't verify the fact that they won't. At least you
1779
01:34:51.479 --> 01:34:53.399
could hold the letter and envelope for me.
1780
01:34:53.479 --> 01:34:59.319
You told you they could give your protection and the situation.
1781
01:35:00.000 --> 01:35:03.680
I thought, that's all I wish. It's you know, Shardan,
1782
01:35:04.640 --> 01:35:07.399
You speak to him for me. He says he stays
1783
01:35:07.439 --> 01:35:09.520
over there at the Royal Orleans, but he's not listed.
1784
01:35:09.640 --> 01:35:11.720
If you called over there, they probably put your call
1785
01:35:11.840 --> 01:35:16.119
through because you're well known. But you did. You talk
1786
01:35:16.159 --> 01:35:18.439
to Sheridan. Tell him what Just tell him the way
1787
01:35:18.479 --> 01:35:20.199
I feel about this thing, and some of the things
1788
01:35:20.279 --> 01:35:22.319
you know about the situation here to see if you
1789
01:35:22.399 --> 01:35:26.880
want to give me something kind of consideration. I told him,
1790
01:35:26.920 --> 01:35:29.279
I'm not trying to be unreasonable.
1791
01:35:29.840 --> 01:35:33.119
That I can't, I cannot will not act as intermediary.
1792
01:35:33.239 --> 01:35:35.800
I'm not asking that. But I just tell him whether
1793
01:35:35.920 --> 01:35:37.920
or not you think I'm telling you the truth. I'm
1794
01:35:37.960 --> 01:35:39.560
not asking you to give me an answer. Just tell
1795
01:35:39.640 --> 01:35:41.960
him whether or not you believe this, or whether or
1796
01:35:42.000 --> 01:35:44.039
not you think in your past experience that I happen
1797
01:35:44.079 --> 01:35:44.960
to be sincereness.
1798
01:35:45.479 --> 01:35:48.119
I'll think about it all right, thank you.
1799
01:35:49.279 --> 01:35:49.399
Uh.
1800
01:35:50.359 --> 01:35:53.560
After this last conversation with Aaron carn I'm using this
1801
01:35:53.680 --> 01:35:57.760
as a narrating the remainder of this tape pursued constructions
1802
01:35:57.800 --> 01:36:01.000
from Detective board Rose I Barnam, and this the Attorney's office.
1803
01:36:01.399 --> 01:36:01.520
Uh.
1804
01:36:02.359 --> 01:36:04.960
I ain't let a pull out all stocks he gave
1805
01:36:05.079 --> 01:36:08.199
me more or less a ver rebel cart block to
1806
01:36:08.600 --> 01:36:11.560
hang any type of particular story upon these people to
1807
01:36:11.720 --> 01:36:16.039
ensure confidence uh in the an activities which I endeavored
1808
01:36:16.079 --> 01:36:18.920
to do. At no such time as I ever paid
1809
01:36:19.119 --> 01:36:21.560
by the District Attorney or any of these aids for
1810
01:36:21.640 --> 01:36:25.279
any of my cooperation, or as I ever intimidated.
1811
01:36:26.039 --> 01:36:26.159
Uh.
1812
01:36:26.279 --> 01:36:29.560
The contents of these conversations on this tape uh relative
1813
01:36:29.680 --> 01:36:32.439
only to uh a sales job.
1814
01:36:32.600 --> 01:36:34.239
More or less that I'm doing.
1815
01:36:34.279 --> 01:36:38.760
Upon these people we feel are resorting to extort any
1816
01:36:39.159 --> 01:36:42.880
measures to gather information to be used against the district
1817
01:36:42.880 --> 01:36:44.760
Attorney and he illegally sow.
1818
01:36:45.279 --> 01:36:47.640
And his good pull. Uh.
1819
01:36:47.840 --> 01:36:51.199
It appears uh in every way that these people they
1820
01:36:51.239 --> 01:36:54.520
approached me for the past few weeks. UH, first to
1821
01:36:54.600 --> 01:36:58.399
start through various people that knew me, uh, and uh
1822
01:36:58.600 --> 01:37:01.359
this man Wick timely knew m uh they're going to
1823
01:37:01.479 --> 01:37:03.399
use my name, They're going to say this or that
1824
01:37:03.560 --> 01:37:05.920
of the other thing with or without my permission or
1825
01:37:06.039 --> 01:37:09.920
my support for cooperation, which leads me to believe uh,
1826
01:37:10.000 --> 01:37:12.319
they led me to believe that the statements that they
1827
01:37:12.399 --> 01:37:15.560
might use would be derogatory or uh not to my
1828
01:37:15.680 --> 01:37:18.840
best advantage. So there it is extortion, no matter how
1829
01:37:18.920 --> 01:37:23.000
you put it. Subsequently, UH, this was the reason for
1830
01:37:23.640 --> 01:37:26.760
the initiation of such an investigation, to prove that these
1831
01:37:26.800 --> 01:37:29.960
people are using such measures in the case of both
1832
01:37:30.000 --> 01:37:33.800
bar and perhaps UH no val of others, and that
1833
01:37:33.920 --> 01:37:39.359
these people also have been compensated by UH mister Sheridan
1834
01:37:39.479 --> 01:37:42.880
of the NBC Need for Network and people doing business
1835
01:37:42.960 --> 01:37:46.720
with them. During the course of texta conversation, I found
1836
01:37:46.760 --> 01:37:49.520
that UH mister Sheridan was formerly AIM of the Judge
1837
01:37:49.520 --> 01:37:52.279
Advocate Generalists Office. He was an intelligence office in the
1838
01:37:52.399 --> 01:37:56.560
United States Army. M Mister Sheridan is UH using all
1839
01:37:56.640 --> 01:38:02.640
of his knowledge and UH abilities to to pressure people
1840
01:38:03.279 --> 01:38:06.680
in one way or another, as did mister Timing. Most
1841
01:38:06.720 --> 01:38:09.560
of these techniques were used in verbal interview which are
1842
01:38:09.600 --> 01:38:12.760
not recorded on these tapes. Unfortunately, we were unable to
1843
01:38:13.800 --> 01:38:17.199
record those personal interviews that is all