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What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the
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Epstein Chronicles. I don't think it's any secret that I
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don't believe the official narrative when it comes to Jeffrey
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Epstein's death. And obviously, I am not the only one. Now,
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I'm not somebody that just runs around believing every conspiracy
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because a lot of them are just a bunch of BS.
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But when it comes to this specific issue, this is
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a different ballgame. And I think there's an ample amount
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of evidence, circumstantial and otherwise, that would make a discerning
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person have a lot of doubts about the official narrative.
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And we know that David Schoen, who was one of
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Epstein's lawyers towards the end of Epstein's life, has already
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come out and said that he doesn't believe that Epstein
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was suicidal. And then, of course, we have what Dr.
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Bodden told us. And in my opinion, Dr. Bodden is
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a much more qualified pathologist than Barbara... Hawk Sampson. And
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I think that Dr. Bodden's record speaks for itself. I mean,
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this guy has been involved in how many different autopsies
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throughout the years? Now, I'm not saying that he can't
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be wrong. I'm just saying that I find his explanation
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to be much closer to what the truth probably is. So,
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in today's episode, we have an article from the Daily Mail,
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and they're diving into the death of Jeffrey Epstein once again,
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and why Mr. Schoen And Dr. Bodden, don't think that
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he killed himself. And the headline. The evidence Epstein did
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not kill himself. Lawyer and pathologist reveal details they claim
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indicate the pedophile was murdered in jail in a new documentary.
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This article was authored by Eliana Silver. Seven years on
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from the mysterious death of disgraced financier, pedophile, Jeffrey Epstein,
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conspiracy theories surrounding the circumstances of his death continue to swirl.
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The official ruling is that the convicted pedophile died by
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suicide after hanging himself in his cell at the Metropolitan
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Correctional Center in New York. Yet many remain convinced that
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he was murdered with a series of unexplained circumstances continuing
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to fuel questions over what really happened. And is that
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not a logical way to go about things? And while
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we're here, there's a whole gaggle of people out there
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that think that Lindsay Clancy's husband is responsible for the murders.
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So if people are going to buy into that, I
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don't want to hear goddamn anything about looking into what
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happened to Epstein in that jail cell. Because if you
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want to talk about an abundance of circumstantial evidence and
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then the coincidences, if you want to call them that,
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that all happened to go the way of the federal government,
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and then how quick they tried to cover it all
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up and just wipe it underneath the rug, yeah, I'd
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say there's a little bit more to see here. And
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until somebody can provide some concrete proof, I don't buy
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the official narrative. I'm sorry. I just don't buy it. Now,
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a harrowing new documentary exploring Epstein's crimes, his inner circle,
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and the aftermath of his death has revisited some of
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those unanswered questions with several key figures offering details that
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they say cast outs on the official account. Now, look,
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I've spoken to people throughout the years that were very
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familiar with the autopsy. And I've heard the same exact
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thing from all of them. And you know me. I'm
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not somebody that comes on here and pumps salacious bullshit,
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even though that's what would be best for my product,
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for my show. I have no desire to do that.
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So when I tell you that I believe something, it's
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because I really believe it. And when it comes to
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Jeffrey Epstein's death, I don't think there's anything about that
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official narrative that's believable, besides the fact that he's dead.
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A new ABC documentary which premiered on HBO Max on
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September 3rd sees award-winning reporter Grace Tobin examine theories surrounding
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his demise. Among those interviewed is David Schoen, Epstein's lawyer
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at the time of his death. Schoen spoke to Epstein
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nine days before he died following an alleged earlier suicide
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attempt that Epstein denied. Yeah, because he didn't try to
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kill himself. And all you people that believe Nicholas Tartaglione
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and that lady pumping his bullshit, I don't even know
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what to say to you. Like, at this point, it's
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getting very frustrating. Very, very frustrating. He denied that he
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tried to commit suicide. The story that he told about
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what had happened was the cellmate had forced him to
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put a rope around his neck and pulled it just
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to see the reaction Epstein would have. What did I
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tell you? What did I tell you? Tartaglione was sent
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there to give Epstein the message. Listen, bro, if you
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don't do it, we will. That is the most likely scenario.
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And that's why, of course... They don't talk about it.
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I'm pretty much the only one that has hypothesized that scenario.
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But when you understand how things work, especially if you're
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looking at four life sentences or the death penalty like
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Tartaglione was, he's going to try and build some credit, right?
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Ex-cop was busted with contraband in his cell two weeks
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before he was moved with Jeffrey Epstein. None of it
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adds up. So if you want to believe that Nicholas
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D'Artaglione is the hero here, cool, that's fine. But I'm
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warning you now, that shit is DOA around these parts.
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And anybody pushing that drivel is part of the cover-up.
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But he told correctional officers that he couldn't remember what
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happened because he was afraid if he got that guy
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in trouble that he would have trouble himself. Schoen said, yeah,
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you can't be a snitch in jail. So you're a
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molester and a snitch? Not really going to work out
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the way you hope. So of course Epstein had motivation
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to not tell the authorities that it was Tartaglione or
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to recant that. I mean, is this real life that
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people don't understand this? And look, I don't expect everybody
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to be a prison expert, but fuck, do a little
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research before you run your fat yab. Sean said Epstein
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had been unhappy in jail but remained determined to fight
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the sex trafficking case against him. The fact that he
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wanted to fight this case until the day before he
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died says to me that it's unlikely he committed suicide. Well,
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it's unlikely to me, too. Now, I don't have all
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the access that Mr. Schoen has, but I've spoken to people,
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and I've had some very, very interesting conversations with people
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that have worked at the MCC, and almost to a
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man and a woman, none of them believe the official narrative.
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Epstein was waiting trial on sex trafficking charges when he
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was found dead in his prison cell, with his death
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quickly becoming mired in mystery and speculation. The two guards
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responsible for monitoring him, who had been assigned to his
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cell following the earlier alleged suicide attempt, reportedly fell asleep
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and failed to check on him for around three hours.
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At the same time, cameras outside his cell malfunctioned. Oh,
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I mean, it's just a gigantic coincidence, right? How come
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the coincidence couldn't be somebody happened to stumble on his
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jail cell while he was quote-unquote trying to take his
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own life? Well, I guess because that coincidence would be
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going in the wrong way. And we can't have that,
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can we? You would think with all these coincidences, one
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would bounce the other way, right? Fate would have it.
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I mean, the odds have to be astronomical for everything
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to bounce in one direction. In 2023, the U.S. Department
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of Justice concluded that there had been job performance failures
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by prison officials, but maintained that Epstein had died by suicide.
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Even so, questions over official account have persisted, with some
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arguing that Epstein's knowledge is of his powerful connections, could
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have given others a motive to silence them. Oh, you think?
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I guess all those people that we've seen in those
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Epstein files are not the kind of people that have
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no scruples, that don't give a flying fuck about anybody
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but themselves. All really great people that you'd want to
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leave your daughter alone with, right? Now think about the
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great lengths that they're going to to keep this covered up.
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Now ask yourself if getting rid of Epstein would be
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a step too far. And I'm not going to sit
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here and tell you I know who did it. And
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when I say they, I just mean they. I don't
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have anyone in mind. I don't know who did it. Now,
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my suspicion is that insert intelligence agency was behind it,
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but I can't prove that. But historically speaking, this is
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what intelligence agencies do when they're burning an asset that's
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no longer useful. Another key figure interviewed in the documentary
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is Michael Bodden, the forensic pathologist who examined Epstein's body
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after his death. Bodden said that he'd been asked to
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attend the autopsy the following day. The history was that
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he was found having committed suicide by hanging in his
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jail cell. There was a little odd situation there because
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the ligature furrow around the neck was horizontal. In a
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suicidal hanging, the ligature mark is usually up at the
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high part of the neck and goes upward. And then,
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the moment of surprise. There were three fractures, two of
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the thyroid cartilage, which is the Adam's apple, and one
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of the hyoid bone. In 50 years of doing this,
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I've never seen that. Now, that's a trained pathologist. Who
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has done how many autopsies in his life? And he's
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never seen that before? But sure, we shouldn't question what happened, right?
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We should have no questions about that official narrative. And
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if you do, well, what are you, some kind of
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conspiracy theorist? Shone explained that medical examiner of New York City,
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who conducted the autopsy, said that it was inconclusive. She
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couldn't say for certain that it was suicide. Not until
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she was told to. Joan explained that medical examiner of
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New York City, who conducted the autopsy, said that it
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was inconclusive. She couldn't say for certain that it was suicide.
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Not until she was told to. Once the bosses showed up,
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the BOP, DOJ, look, you better just run this bitch through, okay?
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We don't got no time for games. But then her boss,
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three or four days later, changed it to suicide, Botten added.
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Even Epstein's brother, Mark, has publicly said he believed the
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financier was killed. I believe he was murdered. And if
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they do a real investigation and they talk to the
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right people, they could figure out what actually took place,
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he told Tobin. I agree. And I still don't believe
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that Michael Thomas and Tova Noel are scot-free here. I
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think they know a little bit more than they're saying. Now,
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do I think that they're a part of it? I
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have no idea. But I think they know more than
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they've said. And that goes for every single person at MCC.
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Look at how evasive they were in those depositions. It's
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almost like they all got together and figured out what
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they would say. Or somebody told them what to say.
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In the film, political scientist Joe Uchinski, who has studied
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the conspiracy theories for 15 years, said he polled Americans
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about Epstein's death and found that the belief he may
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not have died by suicide was a common opinion. Half
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the country thought it was a conspiracy that he was
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killed by people who were trying to cover up their
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involvement with him. And you don't normally get conspiracy theories
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getting half the country to buy in, he said. Well,
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this isn't your regular kind of conspiracy theory. There's no
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Chupacabra here. There's no Egyptian planes. There's no make-believe. This
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is the reality, folks. And the sooner people fucking wise
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up and start dealing with it instead of ignoring it
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and hiding from it, the better off we're going to be.
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Even some of Epstein's victims believe he didn't kill himself,
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including Lisa Phillips, a model who met the disgraced financier
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on his island while she was in the area for
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a photo shoot. I believe he always thought he was
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going to get out of it, she said. Phillips met
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Epstein in the year 2000 when he quickly took an
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interest in her modeling career, as well as her aspirations
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and dreams. The night that they met, he sexually abused
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her for the first time under the guise of getting
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a massage from her, she recounted in the documentary, So
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anytime anyone in Epstein's world talked about massage, that's what
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they meant. There's no gray area here. There's no nuance.
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After she returned home, Phillips said Epstein called her and
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arranged a meeting with a Ford modeling agent before beginning
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to send her to auditions. I was abused by him
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again and through his connections, where he would send me
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on to auditions. But back then, I wasn't aware that
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I was trafficked. Auditions are castings by Epstein, so it's like, oh,
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my friend is casting a really big film right now.
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And you're sent somewhere where all of a sudden you're
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positioned or propositioned for sex and the people around you
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are enforcing it. Just thought it was business. Another survivor,
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Ashley Rubright, also shared her story in the film. She
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was only 15 when she met Epstein. Well, I thought
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it was only 17-year-old girls and girls that were of age. Oh, wait,
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those people lied to you? That's a big shock. I
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wonder what else they're lying to you about. I was
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working at a barbecue restaurant and one of my co-workers
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asked me one day in the restaurant if I'd like
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to give a man a massage for $ 200. I thought
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about it for a second and I said sure. She
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recounts how she went to Epstein's Palm Beach home and
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was shocked when she walked into the bathroom only to
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find the financier naked. Imagine walking into the bathroom and
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finding disgusting ass Epstein naked. I'd rather be eaten by
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a great white shark. He just kind of laid on
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the table and then he told me how to massage him,
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she said. Then he flipped over and that's when things
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got really, more, way more inappropriate there. He asked me
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to take off my bra and to pull up my
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skirt and he was touching himself the whole time. I
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was just trying not to look and he would grab me,
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grab my behind, and I was just trying not to
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be there, you know, at that time. After he finished,
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his assistant came in and took Rub Right back downstairs,
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she said. Although she was shocked, She said that she
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tried to rationalize it, thinking it must have been a fluke.
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And that's what happened with a lot of these girls.
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It was normalized to them. If they walk into an environment,
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and that's what everybody's doing, and then you have posh-ass
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Ghislaine Maxwell as the ringleader, yeah, people are going to
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be enamored. And people are going to think that this
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is the way things go down. She went back to
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his home once more, where she said the situation escalated further.
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I just remember Jeffrey... bringing over a basket of sex
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toys and asking me to pick one out and asking
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me if I knew how to use it. He had
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me sit on the bathroom floor and he sat on
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the edge of the massage table. She said she remembers
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what happened, but the film shows her become visibly emotional
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and stop herself from saying anything more. I think we
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can all figure out what happened, okay? And none of
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it's good. Her life turned dark after she met Epstein.
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She then added, I was angry and I didn't care.
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who got the brunt of it all. I stopped cheerleading.
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I stopped dancing. I kind of went from like trying
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to do good to just not caring. And that is
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the story that we've heard from how many girls that
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were abused by Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Phillips and Rubbright
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are two of more than a thousand women who are
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said to have been sexually abused by Epstein. Although the
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full extent of his alleged abuse remains unknown as most
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survivors continue to come forward. And that's the truth. We've
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only scratched the surface, if you can believe it. Think
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about how many women have come forward. Now think about
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the women with no names. It's a staggering number. And
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it's pretty disturbing. The film also delves into Epstein's first
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criminal case, exploring how Palm Beach police began investigating him
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after the stepmother of a ninth grader at Royal Palm
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Beach High School reported in March 2005 that a wealthy
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man had molested her daughter. Police subsequently discovered that a
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number of victims had been recruited at Royal Palm Beach
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High School. Royal Palm Beach High School. You think they
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were all 17 years old? 18? Or do you think
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some of them were 14, 15, 16? We all know
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the answer. And all the scumbags who are saying that
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this is the one girl. Oh, she was 17. You
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can all go get fucked. You bunch of dirty, disingenuous scumbags.
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Spencer Coven, who represented three of Epstein's victims at the time,
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recalled in the film how aggressive Epstein's dream team of
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lawyers had been. It's widely reported that Jeffrey Epstein and
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his legal team has some of the victims followed by
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blacked out SUVs, you know, showing up at their houses.
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They were also investigating the lead investigator, Joe Ricari. And
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I asked to meet him. So can you imagine? Epstein
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was so brazen that he was investigating the cops that
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were investigating him. But sure, he's just a regular old diddler.
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Like the sex offender that's on the registry down the block, right?
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So he picked a Starbucks in downtown West Palm Beach.
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And when I sat down, I started talking to him.
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His head was on a swivel and he kept looking around.
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And I said, what are you doing? I'll never forget.
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He looks at me and he says, you have no
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idea what they're doing to me. Coven said that they'd
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been digging through Rikeri's personal trash. He said to me,
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I've never seen this kind of an operation before. Well,
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that's what happens when you're dealing with somebody who's intelligence adjacent.
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And people can deny it as much as they want.
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I don't care. That's up to them. But the truth
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is what the truth is. And no amount of denials
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or narrative building is going to change it. Despite an
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extensive investigation by Palm Beach police, the case ultimately ended
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In a controversial plea deal that saw Epstein face what
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critics described as a remarkably lenient sentence following intense lobbying
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by his lawyers. The charges that they ended up bringing
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were solicitation for prostitution of a minor. It's basically calling
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these victims prostitutes. We all know children can't be prostitutes,
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but that was the whole point. So that later on
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down the road, when the conversation pops back up, they
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can use this as their narrative. Well, she was 17, bro.
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Come on. What are you, some kind of Puritan? Epstein
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ultimately served 13 months of an 18-month sentence, quickly returning
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to high society, mingling with people such as Bill Gates
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and the Joe Exotic of the Windsor family. In the
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years leading up to his second arrest and death, Epstein
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abused hundreds, allegedly trafficking victims to more powerful men. Survivors
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are still seeking answers and justice. Republican lawmakers, including Thomas
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Massey and Marjorie Taylor Greene, joined forces with Democrats in
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a push to to release the Epstein files, putting them
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at odds with President Donald Trump. Yeah, ruin their careers, honestly.
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Why do you think Thomas Massey lost? Why do you
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think Marjorie Taylor Greene didn't run for re-election? It's dangerous
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work to speak out against Epstein. Speaking to fellow survivors
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and supporters on Capitol Hill, Phillips is filmed saying the
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issue is one America is finally united on. Man, I
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wish it was. I really do. And I've done my best, folks.
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I have done my best But it's impossible. People don't
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want to get out of their bunker. People don't want to,
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you know, make their team upset. And people don't want
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to take a look in the mirror. It's much easier
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to think that it's somebody else's problem or that it's
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just the other team. I hate to tell you, but
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it's both teams. And until people start coming at this
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from that perspective, without having any faves and without trying
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to protect people, we're not going to get anywhere. Although
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the Department of Justice has published around 3.5 million pages
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of Epstein-related files, lawmakers say... almost half of the records
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remain unreleased. Federal estimates suggest that between 2.5 million and
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3 million documents related to the Epstein investigation are still
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being withheld by the DOJ. And look, I know it's
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no shock for you folks who listen to the podcast
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to hear that I don't believe that Epstein killed himself.
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But when you have people like Mr. Schoen and Mr.
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Abaddon saying it, my advice is, you should probably listen.
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All the information that goes with this episode can be
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found in the description box.
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What's up everyone and welcome to another episode of the
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Epstein Chronicles. I don't think it's any secret that I
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don't believe the official narrative when it comes to Jeffrey
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Epstein's death. And obviously, I am not the only one. Now,
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I'm not somebody that just runs around believing every conspiracy
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because a lot of them are just a bunch of BS.
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But when it comes to this specific issue, this is
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a different ballgame. And I think there's an ample amount
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of evidence, circumstantial and otherwise, that would make a discerning
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person have a lot of doubts about the official narrative.
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And we know that David Schoen, who was one of
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Epstein's lawyers towards the end of Epstein's life, has already
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come out and said that he doesn't believe that Epstein
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was suicidal. And then, of course, we have what Dr.
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Bodden told us. And in my opinion, Dr. Bodden is
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a much more qualified pathologist than Barbara... Hawk Sampson. And
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I think that Dr. Bodden's record speaks for itself. I mean,
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this guy has been involved in how many different autopsies
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throughout the years? Now, I'm not saying that he can't
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be wrong. I'm just saying that I find his explanation
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to be much closer to what the truth probably is. So,
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in today's episode, we have an article from the Daily Mail,
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and they're diving into the death of Jeffrey Epstein once again,
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and why Mr. Schoen And Dr. Bodden, don't think that
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he killed himself. And the headline. The evidence Epstein did
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not kill himself. Lawyer and pathologist reveal details they claim
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indicate the pedophile was murdered in jail in a new documentary.
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This article was authored by Eliana Silver. Seven years on
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from the mysterious death of disgraced financier, pedophile, Jeffrey Epstein,
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conspiracy theories surrounding the circumstances of his death continue to swirl.
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The official ruling is that the convicted pedophile died by
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suicide after hanging himself in his cell at the Metropolitan
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Correctional Center in New York. Yet many remain convinced that
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he was murdered with a series of unexplained circumstances continuing
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to fuel questions over what really happened. And is that
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not a logical way to go about things? And while
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we're here, there's a whole gaggle of people out there
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that think that Lindsay Clancy's husband is responsible for the murders.
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So if people are going to buy into that, I
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don't want to hear goddamn anything about looking into what
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happened to Epstein in that jail cell. Because if you
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want to talk about an abundance of circumstantial evidence and
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then the coincidences, if you want to call them that,
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that all happened to go the way of the federal government,
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and then how quick they tried to cover it all
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up and just wipe it underneath the rug, yeah, I'd
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say there's a little bit more to see here. And
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until somebody can provide some concrete proof, I don't buy
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the official narrative. I'm sorry. I just don't buy it. Now,
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a harrowing new documentary exploring Epstein's crimes, his inner circle,
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and the aftermath of his death has revisited some of
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those unanswered questions with several key figures offering details that
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they say cast outs on the official account. Now, look,
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I've spoken to people throughout the years that were very
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familiar with the autopsy. And I've heard the same exact
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thing from all of them. And you know me. I'm
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not somebody that comes on here and pumps salacious bullshit,
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even though that's what would be best for my product,
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for my show. I have no desire to do that.
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So when I tell you that I believe something, it's
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because I really believe it. And when it comes to
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Jeffrey Epstein's death, I don't think there's anything about that
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official narrative that's believable, besides the fact that he's dead.
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A new ABC documentary which premiered on HBO Max on
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September 3rd sees award-winning reporter Grace Tobin examine theories surrounding
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his demise. Among those interviewed is David Schoen, Epstein's lawyer
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at the time of his death. Schoen spoke to Epstein
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nine days before he died following an alleged earlier suicide
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attempt that Epstein denied. Yeah, because he didn't try to
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kill himself. And all you people that believe Nicholas Tartaglione
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and that lady pumping his bullshit, I don't even know
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what to say to you. Like, at this point, it's
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getting very frustrating. Very, very frustrating. He denied that he
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tried to commit suicide. The story that he told about
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what had happened was the cellmate had forced him to
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put a rope around his neck and pulled it just
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to see the reaction Epstein would have. What did I
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tell you? What did I tell you? Tartaglione was sent
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there to give Epstein the message. Listen, bro, if you
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don't do it, we will. That is the most likely scenario.
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And that's why, of course... They don't talk about it.
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I'm pretty much the only one that has hypothesized that scenario.
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But when you understand how things work, especially if you're
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looking at four life sentences or the death penalty like
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Tartaglione was, he's going to try and build some credit, right?
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Ex-cop was busted with contraband in his cell two weeks
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before he was moved with Jeffrey Epstein. None of it
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adds up. So if you want to believe that Nicholas
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D'Artaglione is the hero here, cool, that's fine. But I'm
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warning you now, that shit is DOA around these parts.
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And anybody pushing that drivel is part of the cover-up.
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But he told correctional officers that he couldn't remember what
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happened because he was afraid if he got that guy
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in trouble that he would have trouble himself. Schoen said, yeah,
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you can't be a snitch in jail. So you're a
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molester and a snitch? Not really going to work out
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the way you hope. So of course Epstein had motivation
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to not tell the authorities that it was Tartaglione or
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to recant that. I mean, is this real life that
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people don't understand this? And look, I don't expect everybody
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to be a prison expert, but fuck, do a little
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research before you run your fat yab. Sean said Epstein
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had been unhappy in jail but remained determined to fight
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the sex trafficking case against him. The fact that he
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wanted to fight this case until the day before he
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died says to me that it's unlikely he committed suicide. Well,
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it's unlikely to me, too. Now, I don't have all
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the access that Mr. Schoen has, but I've spoken to people,
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and I've had some very, very interesting conversations with people
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that have worked at the MCC, and almost to a
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man and a woman, none of them believe the official narrative.
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Epstein was waiting trial on sex trafficking charges when he
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was found dead in his prison cell, with his death
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quickly becoming mired in mystery and speculation. The two guards
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responsible for monitoring him, who had been assigned to his
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cell following the earlier alleged suicide attempt, reportedly fell asleep
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and failed to check on him for around three hours.
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At the same time, cameras outside his cell malfunctioned. Oh,
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I mean, it's just a gigantic coincidence, right? How come
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the coincidence couldn't be somebody happened to stumble on his
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jail cell while he was quote-unquote trying to take his
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own life? Well, I guess because that coincidence would be
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going in the wrong way. And we can't have that,
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can we? You would think with all these coincidences, one
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would bounce the other way, right? Fate would have it.
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I mean, the odds have to be astronomical for everything
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to bounce in one direction. In 2023, the U.S. Department
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of Justice concluded that there had been job performance failures
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by prison officials, but maintained that Epstein had died by suicide.
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Even so, questions over official account have persisted, with some
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arguing that Epstein's knowledge is of his powerful connections, could
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have given others a motive to silence them. Oh, you think?
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I guess all those people that we've seen in those
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Epstein files are not the kind of people that have
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no scruples, that don't give a flying fuck about anybody
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but themselves. All really great people that you'd want to
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leave your daughter alone with, right? Now think about the
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great lengths that they're going to to keep this covered up.
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Now ask yourself if getting rid of Epstein would be
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a step too far. And I'm not going to sit
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here and tell you I know who did it. And
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when I say they, I just mean they. I don't
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have anyone in mind. I don't know who did it. Now,
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my suspicion is that insert intelligence agency was behind it,
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but I can't prove that. But historically speaking, this is
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what intelligence agencies do when they're burning an asset that's
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no longer useful. Another key figure interviewed in the documentary
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is Michael Bodden, the forensic pathologist who examined Epstein's body
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after his death. Bodden said that he'd been asked to
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attend the autopsy the following day. The history was that
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he was found having committed suicide by hanging in his
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jail cell. There was a little odd situation there because
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the ligature furrow around the neck was horizontal. In a
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suicidal hanging, the ligature mark is usually up at the
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high part of the neck and goes upward. And then,
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the moment of surprise. There were three fractures, two of
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the thyroid cartilage, which is the Adam's apple, and one
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of the hyoid bone. In 50 years of doing this,
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I've never seen that. Now, that's a trained pathologist. Who
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has done how many autopsies in his life? And he's
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never seen that before? But sure, we shouldn't question what happened, right?
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We should have no questions about that official narrative. And
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if you do, well, what are you, some kind of
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conspiracy theorist? Shone explained that medical examiner of New York City,
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who conducted the autopsy, said that it was inconclusive. She
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couldn't say for certain that it was suicide. Not until
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she was told to. Joan explained that medical examiner of
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New York City, who conducted the autopsy, said that it
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was inconclusive. She couldn't say for certain that it was suicide.
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Not until she was told to. Once the bosses showed up,
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the BOP, DOJ, look, you better just run this bitch through, okay?
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We don't got no time for games. But then her boss,
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three or four days later, changed it to suicide, Botten added.
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Even Epstein's brother, Mark, has publicly said he believed the
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financier was killed. I believe he was murdered. And if
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they do a real investigation and they talk to the
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right people, they could figure out what actually took place,
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he told Tobin. I agree. And I still don't believe
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that Michael Thomas and Tova Noel are scot-free here. I
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think they know a little bit more than they're saying. Now,
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do I think that they're a part of it? I
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have no idea. But I think they know more than
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they've said. And that goes for every single person at MCC.
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Look at how evasive they were in those depositions. It's
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almost like they all got together and figured out what
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they would say. Or somebody told them what to say.
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In the film, political scientist Joe Uchinski, who has studied
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the conspiracy theories for 15 years, said he polled Americans
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about Epstein's death and found that the belief he may
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not have died by suicide was a common opinion. Half
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the country thought it was a conspiracy that he was
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killed by people who were trying to cover up their
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involvement with him. And you don't normally get conspiracy theories
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getting half the country to buy in, he said. Well,
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this isn't your regular kind of conspiracy theory. There's no
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Chupacabra here. There's no Egyptian planes. There's no make-believe. This
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is the reality, folks. And the sooner people fucking wise
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up and start dealing with it instead of ignoring it
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and hiding from it, the better off we're going to be.
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Even some of Epstein's victims believe he didn't kill himself,
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including Lisa Phillips, a model who met the disgraced financier
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on his island while she was in the area for
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a photo shoot. I believe he always thought he was
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going to get out of it, she said. Phillips met
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Epstein in the year 2000 when he quickly took an
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interest in her modeling career, as well as her aspirations
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and dreams. The night that they met, he sexually abused
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her for the first time under the guise of getting
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a massage from her, she recounted in the documentary, So
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anytime anyone in Epstein's world talked about massage, that's what
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they meant. There's no gray area here. There's no nuance.
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After she returned home, Phillips said Epstein called her and
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arranged a meeting with a Ford modeling agent before beginning
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to send her to auditions. I was abused by him
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again and through his connections, where he would send me
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on to auditions. But back then, I wasn't aware that
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I was trafficked. Auditions are castings by Epstein, so it's like, oh,
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my friend is casting a really big film right now.
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And you're sent somewhere where all of a sudden you're
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positioned or propositioned for sex and the people around you
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are enforcing it. Just thought it was business. Another survivor,
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Ashley Rubright, also shared her story in the film. She
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was only 15 when she met Epstein. Well, I thought
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it was only 17-year-old girls and girls that were of age. Oh, wait,
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those people lied to you? That's a big shock. I
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wonder what else they're lying to you about. I was
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working at a barbecue restaurant and one of my co-workers
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asked me one day in the restaurant if I'd like
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to give a man a massage for $ 200. I thought
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about it for a second and I said sure. She
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recounts how she went to Epstein's Palm Beach home and
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was shocked when she walked into the bathroom only to
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find the financier naked. Imagine walking into the bathroom and
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finding disgusting ass Epstein naked. I'd rather be eaten by
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a great white shark. He just kind of laid on
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the table and then he told me how to massage him,
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she said. Then he flipped over and that's when things
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got really, more, way more inappropriate there. He asked me
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to take off my bra and to pull up my
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skirt and he was touching himself the whole time. I
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was just trying not to look and he would grab me,
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grab my behind, and I was just trying not to
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be there, you know, at that time. After he finished,
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his assistant came in and took Rub Right back downstairs,
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she said. Although she was shocked, She said that she
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tried to rationalize it, thinking it must have been a fluke.
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And that's what happened with a lot of these girls.
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It was normalized to them. If they walk into an environment,
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and that's what everybody's doing, and then you have posh-ass
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Ghislaine Maxwell as the ringleader, yeah, people are going to
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be enamored. And people are going to think that this
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is the way things go down. She went back to
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his home once more, where she said the situation escalated further.
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I just remember Jeffrey... bringing over a basket of sex
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toys and asking me to pick one out and asking
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me if I knew how to use it. He had
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me sit on the bathroom floor and he sat on
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the edge of the massage table. She said she remembers
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what happened, but the film shows her become visibly emotional
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and stop herself from saying anything more. I think we
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can all figure out what happened, okay? And none of
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it's good. Her life turned dark after she met Epstein.
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She then added, I was angry and I didn't care.
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who got the brunt of it all. I stopped cheerleading.
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I stopped dancing. I kind of went from like trying
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to do good to just not caring. And that is
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the story that we've heard from how many girls that
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were abused by Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell. Phillips and Rubbright
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are two of more than a thousand women who are
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said to have been sexually abused by Epstein. Although the
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full extent of his alleged abuse remains unknown as most
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survivors continue to come forward. And that's the truth. We've
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only scratched the surface, if you can believe it. Think
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about how many women have come forward. Now think about
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the women with no names. It's a staggering number. And
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it's pretty disturbing. The film also delves into Epstein's first
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criminal case, exploring how Palm Beach police began investigating him
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after the stepmother of a ninth grader at Royal Palm
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Beach High School reported in March 2005 that a wealthy
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man had molested her daughter. Police subsequently discovered that a
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number of victims had been recruited at Royal Palm Beach
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High School. Royal Palm Beach High School. You think they
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were all 17 years old? 18? Or do you think
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some of them were 14, 15, 16? We all know
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the answer. And all the scumbags who are saying that
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this is the one girl. Oh, she was 17. You
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can all go get fucked. You bunch of dirty, disingenuous scumbags.
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Spencer Coven, who represented three of Epstein's victims at the time,
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recalled in the film how aggressive Epstein's dream team of
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lawyers had been. It's widely reported that Jeffrey Epstein and
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his legal team has some of the victims followed by
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blacked out SUVs, you know, showing up at their houses.
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They were also investigating the lead investigator, Joe Ricari. And
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I asked to meet him. So can you imagine? Epstein
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was so brazen that he was investigating the cops that
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were investigating him. But sure, he's just a regular old diddler.
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Like the sex offender that's on the registry down the block, right?
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So he picked a Starbucks in downtown West Palm Beach.
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And when I sat down, I started talking to him.
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His head was on a swivel and he kept looking around.
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And I said, what are you doing? I'll never forget.
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He looks at me and he says, you have no
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idea what they're doing to me. Coven said that they'd
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been digging through Rikeri's personal trash. He said to me,
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I've never seen this kind of an operation before. Well,
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that's what happens when you're dealing with somebody who's intelligence adjacent.
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And people can deny it as much as they want.
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I don't care. That's up to them. But the truth
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is what the truth is. And no amount of denials
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or narrative building is going to change it. Despite an
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extensive investigation by Palm Beach police, the case ultimately ended
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In a controversial plea deal that saw Epstein face what
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critics described as a remarkably lenient sentence following intense lobbying
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by his lawyers. The charges that they ended up bringing
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were solicitation for prostitution of a minor. It's basically calling
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these victims prostitutes. We all know children can't be prostitutes,
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but that was the whole point. So that later on
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down the road, when the conversation pops back up, they
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can use this as their narrative. Well, she was 17, bro.
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Come on. What are you, some kind of Puritan? Epstein
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ultimately served 13 months of an 18-month sentence, quickly returning
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to high society, mingling with people such as Bill Gates
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and the Joe Exotic of the Windsor family. In the
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years leading up to his second arrest and death, Epstein
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abused hundreds, allegedly trafficking victims to more powerful men. Survivors
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are still seeking answers and justice. Republican lawmakers, including Thomas
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Massey and Marjorie Taylor Greene, joined forces with Democrats in
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a push to to release the Epstein files, putting them
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at odds with President Donald Trump. Yeah, ruin their careers, honestly.
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Why do you think Thomas Massey lost? Why do you
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think Marjorie Taylor Greene didn't run for re-election? It's dangerous
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work to speak out against Epstein. Speaking to fellow survivors
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and supporters on Capitol Hill, Phillips is filmed saying the
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issue is one America is finally united on. Man, I
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wish it was. I really do. And I've done my best, folks.
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I have done my best But it's impossible. People don't
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want to get out of their bunker. People don't want to,
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you know, make their team upset. And people don't want
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to take a look in the mirror. It's much easier
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to think that it's somebody else's problem or that it's
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just the other team. I hate to tell you, but
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it's both teams. And until people start coming at this
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from that perspective, without having any faves and without trying
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to protect people, we're not going to get anywhere. Although
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the Department of Justice has published around 3.5 million pages
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of Epstein-related files, lawmakers say... almost half of the records
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remain unreleased. Federal estimates suggest that between 2.5 million and
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3 million documents related to the Epstein investigation are still
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being withheld by the DOJ. And look, I know it's
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no shock for you folks who listen to the podcast
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to hear that I don't believe that Epstein killed himself.
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But when you have people like Mr. Schoen and Mr.
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Abaddon saying it, my advice is, you should probably listen.
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All the information that goes with this episode can be
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found in the description box.
