Pt 1 SNEAKO & Chris Langan Call Me OUT!? Kat Von D Music, Dean Withers Vs Cooley & Cleave Debates!

WEBVTT
1
00:00:34.869 --> 00:00:35.390
Thank you.
2
00:01:02.630 --> 00:01:30.590
Thank you. Bye.
3
00:01:58.750 --> 00:01:59.129
Thank you.
4
00:02:49.610 --> 00:02:50.050
So so.
5
00:04:36.209 --> 00:05:24.810
Thank you. Thank you.
6
00:05:55.529 --> 00:05:55.829
Bye.
7
00:06:24.899 --> 00:06:25.300
Thank you.
8
00:08:01.560 --> 00:08:04.850
Welcome, everybody. Another open forum live stream. You can call
9
00:08:04.949 --> 00:08:10.329
in in the X link in the show description. Post
10
00:08:10.389 --> 00:08:12.790
it in the chat. Open calls today on pretty much
11
00:08:12.889 --> 00:08:18.870
whatever you want to discuss, debate, disagree, agree, comments. We
12
00:08:18.889 --> 00:08:23.389
even got DivaCam going for all the haters. Looking good
13
00:08:23.430 --> 00:08:28.910
over here. Oh, look at that one.
14
00:08:29.329 --> 00:08:29.750
Whoa.
15
00:08:29.870 --> 00:08:32.429
Slow down. Slow down.
16
00:08:33.809 --> 00:08:34.230
Whoa.
17
00:08:35.720 --> 00:08:37.879
Shout out to Kat Von D for her merch. She
18
00:08:37.919 --> 00:08:42.639
sent some new hype merch. I bought some merch. She
19
00:08:42.659 --> 00:08:46.419
sells this cool cassette tape. Look at that cassette tape.
20
00:08:47.919 --> 00:08:55.539
Shout out to Autographed. Autographed Laserdisc. Check out that Laserdisc
21
00:08:55.570 --> 00:09:00.850
right here. Our autographed Laserdisc. Props to Kat Von D
22
00:09:00.889 --> 00:09:05.169
for that merch. And if you would like some of
23
00:09:05.250 --> 00:09:09.620
her merch, you can, of course, head on over to
24
00:09:09.980 --> 00:09:12.200
the Kat Von D. I think it's called Von D Land.
25
00:09:12.240 --> 00:09:16.429
Let's see. A lot of her music, by the way,
26
00:09:16.440 --> 00:09:22.830
if you don't know, is very, at least, in the past,
27
00:09:23.269 --> 00:09:26.759
I think she's kind of getting some new styles going.
28
00:09:27.639 --> 00:09:32.019
She's doing a little more rock type stuff, but the, uh,
29
00:09:32.919 --> 00:09:39.129
previous album was very synth wave retro, you know, type
30
00:09:39.169 --> 00:09:43.149
of stuff we do over here. So if you're interested
31
00:09:43.190 --> 00:09:45.429
in her merch, you can head on over here to
32
00:09:46.690 --> 00:09:49.620
Vaughn D land and get some of that music and merch.
33
00:09:50.100 --> 00:09:53.769
Good friend of the channel. And then of course we
34
00:09:53.789 --> 00:09:57.529
can't forget the new merch that dropped over here. We
35
00:09:59.570 --> 00:10:02.139
got new Dyer merch. Check it out in the store.
36
00:10:02.179 --> 00:10:08.350
We got this tote. We got the mugs. Let's see,
37
00:10:08.389 --> 00:10:14.490
what's the new stuff? Hoodies, toboggans. This is the Tim
38
00:10:14.529 --> 00:10:17.649
Pool line of merch. We got some Tim Pool merch
39
00:10:17.710 --> 00:10:22.139
up in the house. Hoodies and toboggans. We got this
40
00:10:22.179 --> 00:10:27.460
here Rasta hat for the Rastadox. For the Rastadox ladies
41
00:10:27.539 --> 00:10:32.700
right here. Look at that pink. Looking good. Top sellers
42
00:10:32.759 --> 00:10:36.690
are up here. I did do a front. People were saying, hey,
43
00:10:36.730 --> 00:10:38.710
how come the t-shirts don't have the front designs? We'll
44
00:10:38.750 --> 00:10:42.110
check over here. Jamie's got a Jamie shirt. Check that out.
45
00:10:42.210 --> 00:10:46.149
The Jamie donut right there. Get you a Jamie donut t-shirt.
46
00:10:46.669 --> 00:10:51.190
Put that in the chat right there. You can get
47
00:10:51.250 --> 00:10:56.909
now the Soviet T on white with the front. Going
48
00:10:56.980 --> 00:11:02.679
full Soviet when I debate David Wood. So full KGB. Also,
49
00:11:02.860 --> 00:11:06.580
I did do a frontal Yakub for y'all. Some of
50
00:11:06.600 --> 00:11:10.179
y'all wanted a frontal Yakub to honor your creator, your maker.
51
00:11:10.200 --> 00:11:16.379
Honor your maker, bro. With a new Yakub frontal T.
52
00:11:17.960 --> 00:11:23.799
I'm going to put out some Brawls that are the
53
00:11:23.860 --> 00:11:30.309
two brains will be the boobies for a Yacoub booby brawl.
54
00:11:31.129 --> 00:11:35.850
What do y'all think of that? For the ladies. You
55
00:11:35.889 --> 00:11:40.830
got double D brain digits. Thousand IQ double, triple, quadruple
56
00:11:40.870 --> 00:11:46.259
D booby brains. Let's see if there's any new merch.
57
00:11:46.759 --> 00:11:52.139
There is also the larger dork brawl. The dark Yakub.
58
00:11:52.159 --> 00:12:00.129
I wonder if the nation of Islam will put out
59
00:12:00.169 --> 00:12:03.190
a fatwa because of these t-shirts. I'll be like, I'm
60
00:12:03.210 --> 00:12:05.149
trying to honor the creator, bro. Why are you trying
61
00:12:05.169 --> 00:12:09.929
to fatwas me? Fatwa? I'm going to be like, fatwa?
62
00:12:11.669 --> 00:12:17.240
I'll be like, fatwas up. Anyway, new merch dropping on
63
00:12:17.250 --> 00:12:22.710
the regular for all of y'all. There's the show description
64
00:12:23.029 --> 00:12:24.970
or the merch in the show description right there.
65
00:12:30.059 --> 00:12:30.440
All right.
66
00:12:32.379 --> 00:12:36.679
Guys, good news. Hope y'all getting paid. Today was payday
67
00:12:36.740 --> 00:12:38.330
for a lot of us. You know what I'm saying?
68
00:12:38.769 --> 00:12:39.950
Shout out to Ivan Payday.
69
00:12:41.850 --> 00:12:45.539

70
00:12:45.679 --> 00:12:46.039
.
71
00:13:31.389 --> 00:13:33.039
Bitcoin with the pump, pump, pump.
72
00:14:12.419 --> 00:14:15.139
Bitcoin is going to the moon, as we say, it's
73
00:14:15.220 --> 00:14:16.039
going to the moon.
74
00:14:31.720 --> 00:14:34.700
Oh, yeah. It's too much fun not to play the song.
75
00:14:34.720 --> 00:14:38.730
Come on now. Isn't it? Isn't it fun? Y'all like
76
00:14:38.750 --> 00:14:41.570
the Superman swoop? Jamie likes the Superman swoop, so I'm
77
00:14:41.590 --> 00:14:44.830
going to leave it. Now, all throughout this bear market,
78
00:14:46.429 --> 00:14:49.149
your friend was telling you is the time to stack
79
00:14:49.769 --> 00:14:51.879
over and over. I told you it's time to stack.
80
00:14:51.899 --> 00:14:55.700
It's time to stack. Ivan called it out throughout the
81
00:14:55.720 --> 00:15:00.659
whole bear market. He was accurate. When we flipped on
82
00:15:00.799 --> 00:15:03.450
the weekly moving average, that means that it's the bull
83
00:15:03.500 --> 00:15:06.330
market now. And it flipped, what, like a week ago?
84
00:15:07.570 --> 00:15:11.549
And even without the Clarity Act passing, we still are
85
00:15:11.570 --> 00:15:15.470
headed towards 90. We're almost at 90. That means we'll
86
00:15:15.490 --> 00:15:19.429
be at 100 very soon because we're in the bull market.
87
00:15:20.470 --> 00:15:24.769
These things go in cycles, guys. And the best indicator
88
00:15:24.789 --> 00:15:28.870
of the cycles is the 50 and 200 week moving average.
89
00:15:29.509 --> 00:15:33.740
And once it flips into a bull trend, that usually signifies,
90
00:15:35.529 --> 00:15:42.659
what is it called? Riptember? Y'all ready for Riptember? Or Riptober?
91
00:15:43.799 --> 00:15:50.559
September and October are Riptember. And the great thing about Bitcoin,
92
00:15:50.580 --> 00:15:53.379
you guys, as I've been trying to tell you, is
93
00:15:53.419 --> 00:15:59.019
that you can make a year's income in a couple
94
00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:03.990
weeks or a couple months. If you think long term,
95
00:16:04.950 --> 00:16:08.870
you stack during the bear market, and then you ride
96
00:16:08.929 --> 00:16:13.269
the wave in the bull market. It's actually kind of simple.
97
00:16:14.350 --> 00:16:16.610
The problem is that it takes a lot of patience,
98
00:16:17.529 --> 00:16:21.870
not getting emotional, not getting freaked out over the daily
99
00:16:21.909 --> 00:16:26.929
and the weekly chart until it moves bull-bear. It's kind
100
00:16:27.029 --> 00:16:33.250
of crazy how easy it actually is if you have
101
00:16:33.330 --> 00:16:36.009
some discipline. The thing about trading, people don't understand. They
102
00:16:36.029 --> 00:16:39.129
think it's like, oh, it's all gambling. Not if you're
103
00:16:39.169 --> 00:16:44.580
doing long-term investing. It's actually a lot of self-discipline. So
104
00:16:44.639 --> 00:16:47.340
if you're emo, you're not going to do well at trading.
105
00:16:47.600 --> 00:16:50.340
You got to be disciplined. You got to stick to
106
00:16:50.379 --> 00:16:52.899
the rules, stick to the pattern. A lot of things
107
00:16:52.940 --> 00:16:54.799
in life are that way. You guys realize that? A
108
00:16:54.850 --> 00:16:57.409
lot of things... Think about your religious life. It's a
109
00:16:57.429 --> 00:17:03.009
lot of discipline and being consistent rather than having some
110
00:17:03.110 --> 00:17:07.519
wild experience, right? Think about trading or investing in terms
111
00:17:07.670 --> 00:17:12.680
of comparisons to the religious life with people think, oh,
112
00:17:13.099 --> 00:17:16.380
I'm going to have this wild experience and crazy conversion.
113
00:17:17.079 --> 00:17:20.549
And then I'm always thirsting for this emotional high or experience.
114
00:17:21.470 --> 00:17:23.289
That's like, oh, I'm going to put my money in
115
00:17:23.309 --> 00:17:26.890
the mean coin and make million dollars overnight okay that's
116
00:17:26.910 --> 00:17:30.769
like the lottery not gonna probably never gonna happen although
117
00:17:30.849 --> 00:17:33.470
i almost did that one time i was this close
118
00:17:33.509 --> 00:17:37.569
to having four million dollars with that stupid peanut coin
119
00:17:37.609 --> 00:17:39.630
i was that close and i bought the wrong damn
120
00:17:39.650 --> 00:17:43.579
peanut but whatever i would have four million dollars that's
121
00:17:43.640 --> 00:17:49.339
okay it's probably in uh in divine providence good that
122
00:17:49.400 --> 00:17:52.160
i didn't get the four million dollars from peanut because
123
00:17:52.200 --> 00:17:55.369
i probably would have Acted even more retarded than I
124
00:17:55.430 --> 00:17:56.809
already do and done something stupid.
125
00:17:57.250 --> 00:17:57.430
Right?
126
00:17:57.509 --> 00:18:03.680
So trusting divine providence, keep to a savings mindset. See
127
00:18:03.700 --> 00:18:05.960
Bitcoin also teach you to save. This is what people understand.
128
00:18:06.019 --> 00:18:08.200
I think this is not a thing where you're going
129
00:18:08.259 --> 00:18:11.990
into it to try to flip a bunch of quick trades.
130
00:18:12.069 --> 00:18:16.470
It's not day trading. It's long-term investing and being wise
131
00:18:16.509 --> 00:18:20.049
with your money. You know, even the, the parables of
132
00:18:20.099 --> 00:18:23.500
Christ are, They're not mainly about money, but the principles
133
00:18:23.539 --> 00:18:26.480
that he uses, even about money, are pretty common in
134
00:18:26.500 --> 00:18:30.789
the parables, right? Saving your money, investing, and doing well,
135
00:18:31.289 --> 00:18:37.009
rather than blowing your money. In the parable of the
136
00:18:37.069 --> 00:18:40.990
prodigal son, he goes and blows his inheritance. So is
137
00:18:41.039 --> 00:18:43.609
Jesus telling us, oh, money doesn't matter, just blow it.
138
00:18:43.940 --> 00:18:46.839
It doesn't matter, just blow it. Money is a tool
139
00:18:47.740 --> 00:18:53.579
to help people. Money is a tool for blessing and
140
00:18:53.660 --> 00:18:56.920
helping the church, giving to the priests, giving to your
141
00:18:56.960 --> 00:18:59.809
friends and family when they need it. Be careful to
142
00:18:59.849 --> 00:19:04.789
set boundaries because sometimes your friends and your family can
143
00:19:04.829 --> 00:19:10.309
become not your friends and family when they, if they try.
144
00:19:10.349 --> 00:19:12.490
I'm just speaking in terms of financial advice. Sometimes your
145
00:19:12.509 --> 00:19:14.630
family are similar. I'm not speaking to my family. My
146
00:19:14.670 --> 00:19:16.599
family is not a problem. I'm just saying in general,
147
00:19:17.220 --> 00:19:25.180
you know, people can get very the worst side can
148
00:19:25.240 --> 00:19:28.240
come out when it comes to these types of things sometimes. So,
149
00:19:28.369 --> 00:19:31.430
and I'm not speaking, if I speak in generalities, people
150
00:19:31.450 --> 00:19:33.890
are always like, why is he vague? He's talking about somebody.
151
00:19:33.930 --> 00:19:36.309
Who's he talking about when he says that? I'm not
152
00:19:36.369 --> 00:19:38.390
specifically talking about him. I'm just saying in a lot
153
00:19:38.410 --> 00:19:41.910
of people's experience, you know, for example, boomers are telling you,
154
00:19:41.930 --> 00:19:45.829
I wouldn't buy that Bitcoin. That's a scam. It's not
155
00:19:45.869 --> 00:19:51.920
a thing, right? You should get that gold. Okay, well,
156
00:19:51.940 --> 00:19:55.619
gold is decent. It's better than fiat. But there's nothing
157
00:19:55.680 --> 00:19:59.880
that's as of yet superior to this. That's why, you know,
158
00:19:59.900 --> 00:20:02.900
we're always looking for these sort of silver bullet, like perfect.
159
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:05.119
There's not going to be in this life anything perfect.
160
00:20:05.160 --> 00:20:08.089
There's not going to be a perfect money. There's not
161
00:20:08.109 --> 00:20:12.119
going to be a perfect... Timing the bottom of them.
162
00:20:12.140 --> 00:20:16.880
You're always going to be dealing with gray areas and
163
00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:20.839
better versus worst. So people need to get out of
164
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:24.779
these donatist mindsets of, I haven't found the perfect church.
165
00:20:24.859 --> 00:20:30.740
I haven't found the perfect money. Bitcoin is like a
166
00:20:30.829 --> 00:20:33.869
savings account is what is the best approach, in my opinion,
167
00:20:33.910 --> 00:20:39.289
for most people. For most people. That's the safest route.
168
00:20:41.069 --> 00:20:42.710
And I mean, you can do gold, but I mean,
169
00:20:43.650 --> 00:20:45.940
gold is probably going to, well, I think we compared
170
00:20:45.960 --> 00:20:51.140
the charts. You're going to make 10 or 20%, 30%
171
00:20:51.140 --> 00:20:55.230
in five to 10 years. Okay, well, I mean, that's not,
172
00:20:55.269 --> 00:20:58.250
you're not going to, that's not really enough to retire on.
173
00:20:58.269 --> 00:21:00.569
You know what I mean? That's not like, that's boomer gains.
174
00:21:01.470 --> 00:21:03.109
If you want S & P, what does that give you?
175
00:21:03.130 --> 00:21:06.779
Like 10% as well, kind of like gold, maybe a
176
00:21:06.779 --> 00:21:09.250
little less than gold. So you might be able to
177
00:21:09.309 --> 00:21:11.980
double your portfolio in 10 years, which is not terrible,
178
00:21:12.380 --> 00:21:16.099
but I would rather 10x. I mean, Bitcoin has a
179
00:21:16.559 --> 00:21:29.160
standard doubling of every five years on average. So I'm
180
00:21:29.180 --> 00:21:31.200
not going to repeat all the same stuff, but again,
181
00:21:31.230 --> 00:21:34.029
I didn't actually expect... I thought after the Clarity Act failed,
182
00:21:34.069 --> 00:21:35.690
and by the way, that was another mistake of Trump
183
00:21:35.750 --> 00:21:38.480
because If Trump had not done all that meme coin stuff,
184
00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:43.119
the Democrats wouldn't have had all this bitching about the
185
00:21:44.359 --> 00:21:46.720
meme coin aspects of the Clarity Act, which is why
186
00:21:46.740 --> 00:21:50.230
it didn't pass. Now, granted, even if Trump had not
187
00:21:50.289 --> 00:21:52.589
done a meme coin, the Democrats still probably would have
188
00:21:52.630 --> 00:21:55.670
held up the Clarity Act, which would have already sent
189
00:21:55.710 --> 00:21:58.170
Bitcoin to 100. But it's kind of amazing that even
190
00:21:58.210 --> 00:22:02.390
without the Clarity Act, we're already headed up to 90.
191
00:22:02.390 --> 00:22:07.130
And again, I was telling all you guys, when it's 60...
192
00:22:07.130 --> 00:22:11.009
Our low was $ 59. 58 in the bull. I was like, guys,
193
00:22:11.029 --> 00:22:12.750
this is the time to stack. This is the time
194
00:22:12.789 --> 00:22:15.630
to stack. And all you goobers were trying to tell
195
00:22:15.670 --> 00:22:19.130
me that, oh, it's going to go down to $ 40.
196
00:22:19.049 --> 00:22:22.470
It's going to $ 30. And Bitcoin's going to $ 20. No,
197
00:22:22.759 --> 00:22:27.440
I don't think it will. So again, most of the time,
198
00:22:27.460 --> 00:22:30.039
the most reliable is the market cycles. And not even
199
00:22:30.079 --> 00:22:33.359
just the four-year cycle, just the 50, 200-week moving average
200
00:22:33.400 --> 00:22:35.380
stuff is the cycle to pay attention to.
201
00:22:35.400 --> 00:22:35.720
Yeah.
202
00:22:38.420 --> 00:22:42.779
Um anyway bitcoin didn't care about the fork bitcoin didn't
203
00:22:42.799 --> 00:22:46.779
care about uh clarity act also i think that another
204
00:22:46.799 --> 00:22:49.049
thing that sent bitcoin up was that there's going to
205
00:22:49.069 --> 00:22:51.490
be more money printing so they're just going to devalue
206
00:22:51.509 --> 00:22:56.230
your dollar even more so it's actually like the more
207
00:22:56.269 --> 00:22:59.140
that you hold your money in fiat the stupider it
208
00:22:59.259 --> 00:23:02.339
is it's like it's like a a boat with a
209
00:23:02.380 --> 00:23:04.039
hole in it and it's just like filling up with
210
00:23:04.059 --> 00:23:07.049
more water and then They're like, we'll print more money,
211
00:23:07.109 --> 00:23:09.710
which means that they'll take two buckets and dump out
212
00:23:09.750 --> 00:23:13.190
a couple buckets as the hole gets bigger and the
213
00:23:13.230 --> 00:23:19.809
water fills up inside your rowboat. Anyway, it's not a
214
00:23:19.829 --> 00:23:22.319
crypto show today, although I did want to talk about
215
00:23:22.339 --> 00:23:24.039
it a little bit. But if you want to support
216
00:23:24.059 --> 00:23:27.019
the stream, there's the super chats. We're going to be
217
00:23:27.039 --> 00:23:30.799
reviewing a couple of debates. There's some new ones. Cooley
218
00:23:30.839 --> 00:23:36.000
was saying that I would find his Dean Withers debate interesting. And, um,
219
00:23:36.519 --> 00:23:44.000
props to Cooley. He's been studying tag. He's been learning apologetics. Um,
220
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:47.309
I think he's still Protestant, but we hope for the best.
221
00:23:47.329 --> 00:23:49.049
We hope to win Cooley over as we hope to
222
00:23:49.069 --> 00:23:53.549
win everybody else over become Orthodox, but it is what
223
00:23:53.569 --> 00:23:56.089
it is. Also, I think Cleve had a debate today.
224
00:23:56.109 --> 00:24:02.210
I want to say with a Catholic guy about whether the, um,
225
00:24:04.599 --> 00:24:08.720
Roman Catholic church is promoting Skittles. I think that was
226
00:24:08.819 --> 00:24:13.460
today's debate. And I don't know who this black dude is.
227
00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:16.890
This looks like a really long debate, so I'm not
228
00:24:16.910 --> 00:24:19.670
going to play the whole thing. We might play a
229
00:24:19.670 --> 00:24:23.470
few clips of it to see how it went. I
230
00:24:23.509 --> 00:24:27.019
didn't even know this was happening until a few minutes ago.
231
00:24:27.839 --> 00:24:33.160
So I didn't want to look at that. Um, Chris
232
00:24:33.200 --> 00:24:35.180
Langan is still calling me out. I thought he would
233
00:24:35.269 --> 00:24:37.390
kind of let it go. I didn't think he would
234
00:24:37.789 --> 00:24:42.150
care too much, but he seems to be significantly annoyed
235
00:24:42.250 --> 00:24:45.150
by the things that I said. I don't, I can't
236
00:24:45.170 --> 00:24:49.009
remember where his, there was another, oh, it was a
237
00:24:49.049 --> 00:24:55.039
comment on my stream about him or not just about him.
238
00:24:55.079 --> 00:24:57.059
I think it's this one. No, it's the previous one.
239
00:24:59.500 --> 00:25:02.250
And I want to talk about Sneeko too. By the way,
240
00:25:02.299 --> 00:25:04.519
I found this or shout out to Manessius for finding
241
00:25:04.539 --> 00:25:07.539
this old Alex Jones, my first call in in 2007,
242
00:25:07.529 --> 00:25:12.509
where we talked about a planned type of, you know,
243
00:25:12.569 --> 00:25:16.990
what scenario. Amazing, huh? 2007, we talked about that the
244
00:25:17.029 --> 00:25:20.250
elite will use a planned bio scenario.
245
00:25:20.970 --> 00:25:21.390
Interesting.
246
00:25:22.789 --> 00:25:26.289
So here's what Chris said. And I also don't think
247
00:25:26.329 --> 00:25:28.849
he understood. He probably doesn't. watch the stream. So he,
248
00:25:28.950 --> 00:25:31.089
he didn't understand what we do when we do a
249
00:25:31.109 --> 00:25:33.890
live stream. He's like, what the hell is this? And
250
00:25:33.950 --> 00:25:37.789
I'm like, my live streams are, uh, largely entertainment. They're
251
00:25:37.829 --> 00:25:41.759
not totally lecture information. So I think he thought I
252
00:25:41.799 --> 00:25:43.339
was going to do some sort of like point by
253
00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:46.839
point reputation. And we just kind of act silly. Jay,
254
00:25:46.859 --> 00:25:50.099
you know, damn well where I'm coming from. Um, I mean,
255
00:25:50.140 --> 00:25:52.539
I'm trying to understand where you're coming from. I made
256
00:25:52.579 --> 00:25:54.400
it clear in the original post that I wasn't saying
257
00:25:54.420 --> 00:25:57.829
anything bad about you or Stefan. Well, you called us nincompoops. So,
258
00:25:58.569 --> 00:26:01.450
I mean, I don't, I'm not butthurt that you call
259
00:26:01.490 --> 00:26:06.869
me nincompoop, but you did call us idiots. So, I
260
00:26:06.910 --> 00:26:09.670
dismiss the entire mainstream debate about the existence of God
261
00:26:09.710 --> 00:26:11.609
as a waste of time. I don't think either of,
262
00:26:12.410 --> 00:26:14.269
I mean, I don't think what I do with TAG
263
00:26:14.450 --> 00:26:22.569
is mainstream. I mean, the mainstream approach is classical apologetics, so-called. Uh,
264
00:26:22.839 --> 00:26:25.680
and I don't do that. So I don't really, I
265
00:26:25.700 --> 00:26:30.619
don't at all think that tag is mainstream at this point. One,
266
00:26:30.640 --> 00:26:33.269
here's the same old arguments being hashed and rehashed every
267
00:26:33.309 --> 00:26:36.109
single time, but does very little of a new original nature.
268
00:26:36.230 --> 00:26:39.109
It's a crashing bore. I actually agree with this because
269
00:26:39.690 --> 00:26:42.630
most of the time, the classical arguments about God's existence
270
00:26:42.710 --> 00:26:45.500
are super boring and their old rehash arguments from the
271
00:26:46.579 --> 00:26:47.359
middle ages even.
272
00:26:48.339 --> 00:26:48.579
Right.
273
00:26:48.720 --> 00:26:52.059
So I agree. But tag is not that. So tag
274
00:26:52.119 --> 00:26:55.539
actually is new and fresh in a sense. You can
275
00:26:55.599 --> 00:26:59.180
find people using that type of argumentation. But I wouldn't
276
00:26:59.240 --> 00:27:03.410
say that it's definitely not the same old type of debate.
277
00:27:05.130 --> 00:27:10.289
He says, this includes outworn versions of tag. Okay, well,
278
00:27:10.509 --> 00:27:12.990
I asked him, I was like, I'm actually interested to
279
00:27:13.059 --> 00:27:15.240
hear your critique of tag. Like, I want to know
280
00:27:15.259 --> 00:27:18.859
what the bad version of tag is because tag is
281
00:27:19.079 --> 00:27:24.160
relatively new in a strict theological Christian sense. You know,
282
00:27:24.220 --> 00:27:27.500
appropriating that line of argument for Christianity is fairly new.
283
00:27:28.819 --> 00:27:31.140
So I want to know what he thinks are the outworn,
284
00:27:31.420 --> 00:27:34.299
what are the problems in tag basically? You weren't supposed
285
00:27:34.339 --> 00:27:37.509
to take it personally. Again, I don't take the critique.
286
00:27:37.569 --> 00:27:39.450
I want to know the critique of tag. I always do,
287
00:27:39.609 --> 00:27:42.170
as I'm sure FDA does. I do genuinely want to
288
00:27:42.230 --> 00:27:43.990
know the critique of tag. In fact, I would have
289
00:27:44.069 --> 00:27:46.710
asked him, in a podcast, like, Hey, well tell me,
290
00:27:46.750 --> 00:27:48.849
you know, line out, lay out what you think are
291
00:27:48.869 --> 00:27:52.269
like the key, you know, weak points or flaws and tag.
292
00:27:53.089 --> 00:27:54.869
But it's always like, Oh, why don't you take, why
293
00:27:54.890 --> 00:27:56.230
do you take it? I don't take it personal. It's
294
00:27:56.529 --> 00:27:59.630
you just said, uh, these guys are nincompoops to me.
295
00:27:59.650 --> 00:28:05.299
That sounds like you guys are retarded. Um, by the way,
296
00:28:05.309 --> 00:28:07.490
he said you have nice dance moves. Thank you. I
297
00:28:07.509 --> 00:28:09.509
know he was a curse. It was a bouncer. So
298
00:28:09.549 --> 00:28:15.480
he would know legit dance moves. And yes, that word
299
00:28:15.559 --> 00:28:20.539
war debate was supposed to be entertainment heavy, not just
300
00:28:20.619 --> 00:28:23.259
sort of intellectual. Someone showed me a thread that you
301
00:28:23.279 --> 00:28:26.880
provide a video link asserting that my theory can't be true. Well,
302
00:28:26.920 --> 00:28:29.970
what I critiqued was that it appears, and again, I'm
303
00:28:30.470 --> 00:28:33.950
happy to be corrected. It appears that the system still
304
00:28:34.049 --> 00:28:38.750
relies on at least three elements that are believed to
305
00:28:38.789 --> 00:28:43.990
be self-evident. And I understand that he doesn't, necessarily mean
306
00:28:44.049 --> 00:28:47.369
it in the old classical foundationalist sense i think he
307
00:28:47.410 --> 00:28:51.329
means that within the coherency of the system there are
308
00:28:51.470 --> 00:28:56.430
three axioms that he thinks are sort of systemly system
309
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:03.859
contextually self-evident and i think tag is kind of doing
310
00:29:03.940 --> 00:29:06.819
a same thing because we're not saying there's not foundations
311
00:29:06.880 --> 00:29:10.480
to the worldview it's just that the foundations aren't self-evident
312
00:29:10.529 --> 00:29:12.970
in some theory neutral sense. So he may mean the
313
00:29:13.009 --> 00:29:16.190
same thing as we do. And if he does, then
314
00:29:16.349 --> 00:29:18.589
I would say, okay, I got that point wrong and
315
00:29:18.609 --> 00:29:22.210
that's fine. But I'm not sure why we're supposed to,
316
00:29:22.210 --> 00:29:24.569
because in the, in the back and forth on Twitter,
317
00:29:24.589 --> 00:29:27.289
I'm not sure, like when he was saying, well, reality
318
00:29:27.329 --> 00:29:29.890
just evolves. And I'm like, well, I don't understand why
319
00:29:29.930 --> 00:29:34.589
that's a, that's like a quote self-evident thing I'm supposed
320
00:29:34.630 --> 00:29:36.150
to say. Maybe it does, but why, how do we
321
00:29:36.170 --> 00:29:39.970
know that? He says, what the fuck is this troll joke?
322
00:29:40.190 --> 00:29:43.390
of a video? Well, all of our videos are silly.
323
00:29:43.690 --> 00:29:45.130
That's the thing. That's what we do here. Because if
324
00:29:45.150 --> 00:29:50.900
you do strict educational info material, nobody will watch it.
325
00:29:51.059 --> 00:29:54.400
So you got to have some of this entertainment. You
326
00:29:54.420 --> 00:29:57.619
made a couple of mistakes. You showed up and accused
327
00:29:57.640 --> 00:30:01.950
me of foundationalism, right? Well, the the three parts of
328
00:30:01.990 --> 00:30:04.769
your position that are supposed to be self-evident to me
329
00:30:04.849 --> 00:30:08.970
sounded like foundation, but again, maybe I'm happy to be, no,
330
00:30:08.990 --> 00:30:09.769
this is Chris Langan.
331
00:30:10.930 --> 00:30:13.119
Oh, Chris Langan. Yeah. Well, you know what? Part of
332
00:30:13.160 --> 00:30:18.140
the problem is, uh, they're not clear what their position is.
333
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:23.599
Well, if you, he has the CTMU paper, right? That
334
00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:26.500
you can read. And then you can look at the paper,
335
00:30:26.640 --> 00:30:30.690
but the paper kind of posits, uh, it's kind of
336
00:30:30.789 --> 00:30:36.309
like overall, it's kind of like it's Leibniz, Hegel, Platonism
337
00:30:36.349 --> 00:30:39.880
type of argument. I mean, it's not identical, but I'm
338
00:30:39.900 --> 00:30:42.019
saying it's like, it's in that vein of argumentation. So
339
00:30:42.039 --> 00:30:45.880
it's like a priori, um, what are the, you know,
340
00:30:45.980 --> 00:30:51.970
necessary conditions for any kind of like rationality or information
341
00:30:52.630 --> 00:30:56.109
and information being conveyed at all. And so his approach
342
00:30:56.269 --> 00:31:01.789
is a monist, monistic position with, uh, also distinction. So
343
00:31:01.990 --> 00:31:06.230
it's like pantheistic monism almost, but there are distinctions. So
344
00:31:06.269 --> 00:31:10.130
it's not like everything dissolves into God, but there is
345
00:31:10.279 --> 00:31:14.160
a monism to it, which kind of sounds like Leibniz.
346
00:31:14.220 --> 00:31:16.339
I mean, I don't think he's going into like Leibniz's
347
00:31:17.059 --> 00:31:20.799
little monads, but I'm saying it's Leibniz's position could also
348
00:31:20.839 --> 00:31:23.150
be kind of cashed out in that type of a
349
00:31:23.200 --> 00:31:27.869
way where Leibniz and some of the later Platonists wanted
350
00:31:27.890 --> 00:31:30.440
to account for change. So it's kind of like a
351
00:31:30.519 --> 00:31:35.019
process philosophy Platonism, like Hegel, where we want Platonism, but
352
00:31:35.059 --> 00:31:39.160
we don't want the problems of pure stasis that happen
353
00:31:39.200 --> 00:31:41.349
in Platonism. So we need to account for change, which
354
00:31:41.400 --> 00:31:43.849
is what Plotinus even was trying to do. But the
355
00:31:43.880 --> 00:31:48.130
question is, it's still system.
356
00:31:46.910 --> 00:31:47.369
Building, right?
357
00:31:47.390 --> 00:31:53.190
It's still sort of like relying on certain axioms to
358
00:31:53.410 --> 00:31:57.329
get the project going. And I'm not saying that every
359
00:31:57.369 --> 00:32:01.279
project does this. it's not possible to have a worldview
360
00:32:01.319 --> 00:32:04.900
without some kind of axioms. But the question is, but
361
00:32:04.960 --> 00:32:08.539
how do we know, like with the criterion problem, that
362
00:32:08.599 --> 00:32:13.500
those are the right axioms? Maybe they are. But it
363
00:32:13.599 --> 00:32:16.180
seemed to me in the discourse a couple days ago
364
00:32:16.279 --> 00:32:21.180
after the Molyneux debate that his response to the criterion
365
00:32:21.200 --> 00:32:24.349
problem was just, well, it's not a problem because I
366
00:32:24.730 --> 00:32:29.809
have a different two-tiered type of approach to starting points.
367
00:32:29.970 --> 00:32:33.329
And I'm like, okay, but how does that, and maybe
368
00:32:33.369 --> 00:32:35.150
it does like, maybe he's got the answer to the
369
00:32:35.170 --> 00:32:37.029
criterion problem. I'm just saying like, I don't understand how
370
00:32:37.750 --> 00:32:40.250
laying out the positions. And this is something I think
371
00:32:40.349 --> 00:32:42.819
FDA always points out. Like when you encounter this with
372
00:32:42.859 --> 00:32:44.970
a lot of people, you know, in the atheist sphere,
373
00:32:45.059 --> 00:32:46.559
not that Chris Lang is an atheist, but in the,
374
00:32:47.259 --> 00:32:51.039
your approach to debating the atheists with this, they always
375
00:32:51.099 --> 00:32:53.240
say something like, oh, well you see, it's not a
376
00:32:53.279 --> 00:32:55.559
problem because I have blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, which
377
00:32:56.349 --> 00:33:00.230
doesn't actually address what the criterion problem is asking. Would
378
00:33:00.250 --> 00:33:03.950
you agree, FTA? Say that again?
379
00:33:04.089 --> 00:33:04.710
Sorry.
380
00:33:05.029 --> 00:33:06.970
In other words, aren't they usually just moving the problem
381
00:33:06.990 --> 00:33:09.349
back a step? Like, well, the criterion problem is not
382
00:33:09.369 --> 00:33:11.329
a problem for me because X, Y, Z.
383
00:33:13.069 --> 00:33:13.269
Yeah.
384
00:33:15.049 --> 00:33:19.710
What would you say is the most common... Did he say.
385
00:33:20.190 --> 00:33:25.920
Well, the most common response is... it's a problem for everybody. Um,
386
00:33:25.960 --> 00:33:28.440
so it's a problem for you. So you can't use this.
387
00:33:29.190 --> 00:33:30.930
Oh yes. Yeah. So just sort of, they sort of
388
00:33:30.950 --> 00:33:31.480
hand wave it.
389
00:33:31.769 --> 00:33:37.269
I haven't heard anybody. I take that back. Uh, there are,
390
00:33:39.650 --> 00:33:41.430
there are people.
391
00:33:40.910 --> 00:33:46.130
That, uh, views that, that basically try to get out
392
00:33:46.150 --> 00:33:52.059
of the problem of criterion. Um, but often you would
393
00:33:52.140 --> 00:33:55.940
ask me, what's the most common response is usually, well,
394
00:33:55.960 --> 00:33:57.920
that's a problem for you too, so you can't use
395
00:33:57.960 --> 00:33:58.569
that as.
396
00:33:58.789 --> 00:34:00.549
Yeah, but I mean, our argument is that it's an
397
00:34:00.630 --> 00:34:04.130
irresolvable problem, which points us to some other type of
398
00:34:05.009 --> 00:34:07.049
beginning point for a worldview, namely God, right?
399
00:34:07.730 --> 00:34:11.989
Well, what I basically show, this is why I call it.
400
00:34:12.050 --> 00:34:16.309
AA, apophatic argument, formerly known as TAG, because we're so.
401
00:34:16.260 --> 00:34:19.559
Obsessed with what's the difference, is.
402
00:34:21.650 --> 00:34:24.489
So if there really is this true.
403
00:34:24.289 --> 00:34:29.909
Disjunct that either these problems are solved.
404
00:34:32.110 --> 00:34:41.920
In a propositional, systematic, inferential way, autonomously, or they're not.
405
00:34:42.519 --> 00:34:43.519
There's some other way.
406
00:34:45.170 --> 00:34:48.070
And namely the opposite category would be, well, it's not
407
00:34:48.150 --> 00:34:53.980
autonomous epistemology and system building, it's theonomous, it's revelatory. They'll
408
00:34:54.159 --> 00:34:57.920
ask me, so how do you get out of it?
409
00:34:58.139 --> 00:35:00.400
And they want me to put it back into the
410
00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:04.710
solution in a problem, into the system that.
411
00:35:04.650 --> 00:35:06.389
Was shown to be the problem. And it's like, well,
412
00:35:06.409 --> 00:35:06.869
it can't.
413
00:35:07.530 --> 00:35:11.769
So if there's a solution, it has to be not
414
00:35:11.809 --> 00:35:12.550
that category.
415
00:35:12.570 --> 00:35:14.590
Well, that's what Negation is.
416
00:35:16.610 --> 00:35:20.210
And so that's why it does solve the problem.
417
00:35:19.969 --> 00:35:22.550
Because it's negating. So it's an.
418
00:35:22.650 --> 00:35:25.199
If, it's a conditional, which is the way that Russ
419
00:35:25.239 --> 00:35:28.179
and all those people always put it. If knowledge, Doug's
420
00:35:28.219 --> 00:35:29.940
is existing, could be justified.
421
00:35:32.230 --> 00:35:33.289
This is how it would be.
422
00:35:33.869 --> 00:35:37.050
But there's no independent kind of argument that stands above
423
00:35:37.150 --> 00:35:40.590
God or another system that it's like, well, here's how
424
00:35:40.610 --> 00:35:45.690
it resolves the problem. In terms of propositional, systematic, linear,
425
00:35:45.809 --> 00:35:52.079
kind of, and inferential knowledge, like, There is no solution
426
00:35:52.139 --> 00:35:52.380
to it.
427
00:35:52.579 --> 00:35:53.380
It's a real problem.
428
00:35:53.400 --> 00:35:55.500
Yeah, exactly. And so we just have to say.
429
00:35:55.550 --> 00:35:58.130
If there is a solution, it's done in a different way.
430
00:35:58.269 --> 00:36:00.150
And if this is the only other category, that's the
431
00:36:00.170 --> 00:36:01.809
way it would have to be done. And so that's
432
00:36:01.869 --> 00:36:04.190
why I said it's an apophatic argument.
433
00:36:04.969 --> 00:36:10.150
Plus, it's really good, too, when we say apophatic, it
434
00:36:10.190 --> 00:36:13.320
leads to this sort of kind of hecticism, right? There
435
00:36:13.340 --> 00:36:15.639
are no arguments to stand.
436
00:36:15.659 --> 00:36:21.880
There's no logical laws and arguments and proofs that stand
437
00:36:21.920 --> 00:36:26.429
behind over an independent of God that prove God. So
438
00:36:26.469 --> 00:36:29.809
that's why Russ says there's no purely rational argument that
439
00:36:29.849 --> 00:36:32.550
proves theism. There's only a theistic account of rationality.
440
00:36:33.369 --> 00:36:35.909
And so I think that it's good.
441
00:36:35.710 --> 00:36:37.750
To see that because people are like, well, that doesn't
442
00:36:37.989 --> 00:36:40.869
prove it. It's like, well, you've got to kind of
443
00:36:40.929 --> 00:36:44.510
see that it's there really is no kind of argument
444
00:36:44.550 --> 00:36:47.389
from that system that will prove God as if it
445
00:36:47.489 --> 00:36:49.630
stands behind him or something like that.
446
00:36:49.789 --> 00:36:53.210
So we can have this kind of recursion.
447
00:36:52.510 --> 00:36:54.630
And we can kind of systemize stuff and put them
448
00:36:54.650 --> 00:36:58.389
in propositions that show that something's beyond, obviously, propositions and
449
00:36:58.449 --> 00:37:02.139
systems and arguments, even transcendental deductions.
450
00:37:02.960 --> 00:37:04.099
It wouldn't make any of those things true.
451
00:37:04.139 --> 00:37:06.360
And I think he would agree with that too, but
452
00:37:06.440 --> 00:37:09.800
his position is more of like there's a universal mind
453
00:37:11.150 --> 00:37:18.250
reality is constituted basically essentially by information. And the only
454
00:37:18.289 --> 00:37:23.059
way to explain the universality of meaningful information is a
455
00:37:23.260 --> 00:37:27.420
universal mind that kind of grounds in. So I take
456
00:37:27.460 --> 00:37:28.719
it to be a kind of a form of divine
457
00:37:28.739 --> 00:37:34.960
conceptualism that also then tries to take into account change, right?
458
00:37:35.000 --> 00:37:38.340
Because one of the perennial problems for Platonism is Well,
459
00:37:38.360 --> 00:37:41.429
if the divine ideas are the models for, you know,
460
00:37:41.510 --> 00:37:46.510
the many particulars, how come the particulars are constantly undergoing change?
461
00:37:46.969 --> 00:37:49.530
If the divine ideas don't undergo change, if they're in
462
00:37:49.550 --> 00:37:51.800
perfect stasis, then how can they be the models for
463
00:37:51.820 --> 00:37:55.320
the things that are changing? There would be never-ending, you know,
464
00:37:55.360 --> 00:38:00.599
differentiation between the model and the type or between the
465
00:38:00.619 --> 00:38:04.130
prototype and the type. So, you know, even St. Maximus
466
00:38:04.170 --> 00:38:07.989
tried to, you know, he modified the Platonism, quote, unquote,
467
00:38:08.619 --> 00:38:13.800
of the Logi to include the idea of the telos
468
00:38:13.840 --> 00:38:16.969
of the object as well as part of the divine idea.
469
00:38:16.989 --> 00:38:19.730
And that's why you can't have the originist position that
470
00:38:19.750 --> 00:38:22.590
the divine ideas are static in the divine essence, because
471
00:38:22.610 --> 00:38:26.690
the divine essence doesn't change. But if the divine energies,
472
00:38:27.030 --> 00:38:30.590
if the Logi or the thought wills that are also
473
00:38:30.610 --> 00:38:34.269
not the divine essence, they're divine energies, and thus there
474
00:38:34.289 --> 00:38:37.449
is an element to which they can encompass the entire
475
00:38:40.010 --> 00:38:44.159
lifespan or the entire existence the being, the becoming and
476
00:38:44.199 --> 00:38:48.360
the eschaton of the object the coming to be the
477
00:38:48.400 --> 00:38:53.099
being and the eschatological that's the three tiered stage of
478
00:38:54.219 --> 00:38:56.909
what you have to account for which the platonic ideas
479
00:38:57.010 --> 00:39:00.670
can't account for because in the platonic system there's a
480
00:39:00.690 --> 00:39:05.309
problem of change and the ideas don't give an account
481
00:39:05.349 --> 00:39:09.059
for the change because change is lesser of an ontological
482
00:39:09.099 --> 00:39:14.650
status than the ideas. So many of the process philosophers
483
00:39:14.690 --> 00:39:17.769
were trying to account for change with this type of
484
00:39:17.829 --> 00:39:21.949
a system. And so I think Chris Langan's model of
485
00:39:22.030 --> 00:39:30.469
argument is implementing that change into the divine conceptualist model.
486
00:39:31.269 --> 00:39:33.150
But we don't really have any idea what the divine
487
00:39:33.769 --> 00:39:36.690
mind is. Like, is it just a giant human mind?
488
00:39:37.449 --> 00:39:39.369
And in our system, we would say, well, there's an
489
00:39:39.409 --> 00:39:41.289
analogy between the human mind and the divine mind, but
490
00:39:41.769 --> 00:39:46.019
we're not saying that God is a monistic mind. So
491
00:39:46.039 --> 00:39:49.500
I think there would be some problems with actually accounting
492
00:39:49.559 --> 00:39:55.059
for if everything just is a piece or part of
493
00:39:55.099 --> 00:40:01.300
the divine mind. And then that's why he says stuff like, well,
494
00:40:02.099 --> 00:40:05.829
reality just evolves. And I'm like, well, does the CTMU evolve?
495
00:40:06.710 --> 00:40:09.130
You know what I mean? Like, I don't know what
496
00:40:09.150 --> 00:40:11.329
that means to just say reality evolves. You have to
497
00:40:11.349 --> 00:40:11.630
know this.
498
00:40:13.309 --> 00:40:15.530
Yeah, there's somebody asking in the chat. I think he's
499
00:40:15.590 --> 00:40:19.500
in the thing too because it's similar. He has a
500
00:40:19.739 --> 00:40:21.079
version of idealism.
501
00:40:21.099 --> 00:40:27.960
This kind of came in the Discord, but I believe
502
00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:30.280
he's in the thing we could bring him up to.
503
00:40:31.010 --> 00:40:35.690
And he was asking what the Orthodox would think of idealism.
504
00:40:35.710 --> 00:40:38.630
I would argue we reject it.
505
00:40:38.750 --> 00:40:39.869
No, we're not idealists at all.
506
00:40:40.360 --> 00:40:46.329
Where any, and I gave several arguments of, of why
507
00:40:46.369 --> 00:40:47.050
that would be true.
508
00:40:47.070 --> 00:40:50.489
But one of them is it makes, it blurs.
509
00:40:50.130 --> 00:40:55.539
The distinction between, uh, matter, the central distinction between.
510
00:40:55.260 --> 00:40:56.099
Matter and ideas.
511
00:40:56.880 --> 00:40:59.679
If you just say, well, it's just another mode of
512
00:41:00.039 --> 00:41:03.119
idea or something like, and when I say like, that's
513
00:41:03.219 --> 00:41:09.980
dangerous in the sense that, uh, It's incorrect. Like, we
514
00:41:10.099 --> 00:41:15.010
really need something that says there's fundamentally and radically a
515
00:41:15.050 --> 00:41:18.409
distinction between matter and ideas for.
516
00:41:18.349 --> 00:41:20.539
A lot of things, for creation, for....
517
00:41:21.550 --> 00:41:23.969
Anyway, so it sounds really similar, too, but I think
518
00:41:24.030 --> 00:41:25.170
it goes, too, as well.
519
00:41:26.829 --> 00:41:31.630
We're missing a kind of bigger picture. This is system building. No,
520
00:41:31.710 --> 00:41:31.909
I know.
521
00:41:31.969 --> 00:41:35.170
So he says, for example, and this chatter is correct,
522
00:41:35.190 --> 00:41:39.050
because I've been listening to Chris Langen for... I don't know, 10,
523
00:41:39.050 --> 00:41:42.239
15 years, but he said, I mean, not all the time, but,
524
00:41:42.280 --> 00:41:47.579
you know, over the years. CTMU, in Langan's model, criterion
525
00:41:47.639 --> 00:41:50.380
is not a rule that stands outside of knowledge. It
526
00:41:50.460 --> 00:41:53.940
is reality already identifying itself, right? Now, that's very Hegelian.
527
00:41:54.039 --> 00:41:56.579
I don't even know exactly what that means because it's
528
00:41:56.619 --> 00:41:59.679
a very metaphysical starting point. Not that I have a
529
00:41:59.699 --> 00:42:03.460
problem with that, but I'm just saying, you know, if
530
00:42:03.519 --> 00:42:06.739
I was, let's say I'm a modern sort of professor
531
00:42:07.139 --> 00:42:09.070
type Like the first thing a professor is going to
532
00:42:09.090 --> 00:42:12.289
do is like, what do you mean reality is identifying itself?
533
00:42:12.329 --> 00:42:16.809
That's like a huge metaphysical leap that if that's going
534
00:42:16.829 --> 00:42:19.670
to be the starting point for the argumentation, I understand
535
00:42:19.690 --> 00:42:21.849
maybe Langen doesn't see that as the starting point within
536
00:42:21.889 --> 00:42:24.889
the system. Maybe he thinks because it's coherent, right? There's
537
00:42:24.949 --> 00:42:28.380
the system itself is all sort of necessitated as a
538
00:42:28.420 --> 00:42:32.840
kind of coherent whole, but for a starting point in argumentation,
539
00:42:33.840 --> 00:42:38.530
it sounds like when he says, for example, reality is
540
00:42:38.610 --> 00:42:43.969
already identifying itself in a two-valued distinction so that no language, universe,
541
00:42:44.210 --> 00:42:48.110
or model could coincide. To demand any further test would
542
00:42:48.130 --> 00:42:50.489
be to pretend that the tester is outside of the system, right?
543
00:42:50.510 --> 00:42:53.710
So this is a coherence type of theory-laden argumentation, which
544
00:42:53.750 --> 00:42:57.500
we would agree that you can't find this neutral outside-of-the-system
545
00:42:57.519 --> 00:43:01.519
standing point to argue. Thus, this is why I said,
546
00:43:02.360 --> 00:43:07.429
it seems like he's arguing that retortion is a sufficient justification.
547
00:43:07.489 --> 00:43:09.710
And that's why I said in the response to him
548
00:43:09.730 --> 00:43:13.170
the other day, but no, there's good reasons why retortion
549
00:43:13.230 --> 00:43:17.639
is not, doesn't give you some justification. I agree. And
550
00:43:17.659 --> 00:43:20.920
we agree with the Thomas or Tim Gordon that if
551
00:43:20.940 --> 00:43:25.460
you're going to do logic and argumentation, and this is Avicenna,
552
00:43:25.579 --> 00:43:29.820
this is Aristotle, right? You have to have things like
553
00:43:29.940 --> 00:43:32.619
the law of identity, the law of non-contradiction. Now, could
554
00:43:32.639 --> 00:43:36.519
you theoretically say, say, well, what if I don't believe
555
00:43:36.539 --> 00:43:38.460
in the law of non-contradiction? How am I supposed to
556
00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:41.280
know that's where a starting point? And they'll say, well,
557
00:43:41.840 --> 00:43:44.860
in denying it, you're assuming it. Yes, that's true. And
558
00:43:44.900 --> 00:43:47.920
that worked well for the ancient and medieval world. And
559
00:43:47.940 --> 00:43:52.690
we would agree that far. However, does that prove that
560
00:43:52.949 --> 00:43:57.769
those logical laws actually apply in the external world in
561
00:43:57.829 --> 00:44:00.570
a meaningful way? So at that point, I could use,
562
00:44:00.590 --> 00:44:02.409
I'm not agreeing with Kant, not a Kantian, but I
563
00:44:02.409 --> 00:44:05.340
could use Kant's argument that Well, how do we know
564
00:44:05.380 --> 00:44:10.000
then that that isn't just our mental language of how
565
00:44:10.079 --> 00:44:13.099
we interpret the world? Like, how do we know that
566
00:44:13.139 --> 00:44:16.900
because it's our mental mindscape language for making sense of
567
00:44:16.920 --> 00:44:20.909
the world, that it's also ontologically the case outside of
568
00:44:20.929 --> 00:44:23.730
our mind in the world, in the things themselves, right?
569
00:44:23.769 --> 00:44:27.769
This is why retorsion isn't sufficient in itself to get
570
00:44:27.809 --> 00:44:30.030
you to justification in an epistemic sense. And I think
571
00:44:30.570 --> 00:44:34.539
in FDA's paper on Quine, He also gave some other
572
00:44:34.579 --> 00:44:37.579
examples like the schizophrenic. Maybe it just appears to us
573
00:44:37.679 --> 00:44:41.760
that this is the only possible way to interpret reality.
574
00:44:42.159 --> 00:44:44.099
But just because it appears that this is the only
575
00:44:44.139 --> 00:44:46.639
possible way to interpret reality, it doesn't follow from that
576
00:44:46.719 --> 00:44:50.309
logically that therefore it is the case. That's why I've
577
00:44:50.329 --> 00:44:53.550
been saying for so long you have to also present
578
00:44:54.329 --> 00:44:59.170
the Christian metaphysic and worldview against the other worldview. It's
579
00:44:59.210 --> 00:45:02.590
not sufficient to just say, Well, I don't see how
580
00:45:02.630 --> 00:45:06.230
we could reason about reality without using the law of non-contradiction. Yeah,
581
00:45:06.250 --> 00:45:06.909
it's true. We can't.
582
00:45:07.769 --> 00:45:07.989
Okay.
583
00:45:08.010 --> 00:45:11.489
Well then therefore we, the law of non-contradiction is true. Well,
584
00:45:11.670 --> 00:45:12.389
but how do we know that?
585
00:45:12.909 --> 00:45:13.090
Right.
586
00:45:13.159 --> 00:45:15.559
So it, could you elaborate on this FDA? Cause this
587
00:45:15.579 --> 00:45:17.800
is actually, it comes up all the time. We've, we've
588
00:45:18.420 --> 00:45:20.679
pointed this out probably 20 times in the last five years.
589
00:45:21.159 --> 00:45:23.820
Why is it not enough from the Russ Manion paper
590
00:45:23.920 --> 00:45:27.000
or from your paper about Quine to just say, well,
591
00:45:27.539 --> 00:45:29.659
I can't conceive of it any other way. So it's
592
00:45:29.679 --> 00:45:30.340
gotta be the case.
593
00:45:34.289 --> 00:45:41.110
Yeah, it could be that just as we are, could
594
00:45:41.130 --> 00:45:46.829
be we're biologically limited. There's certain wavelengths that I can't
595
00:45:46.929 --> 00:45:50.469
see that are only my visible spectrum, right?
596
00:45:52.039 --> 00:45:55.739
It could be as far as the, and in fact,
597
00:45:55.920 --> 00:46:04.099
Paul McGinn's whole, philosophy of mind theory is called Mysterianism.
598
00:46:04.860 --> 00:46:08.960
So he actually says we can't solve the mind.
599
00:46:08.760 --> 00:46:12.619
And body problem not because in theory it's not soluble,
600
00:46:12.639 --> 00:46:16.380
but because we're conceptually designed in a way that it's
601
00:46:16.420 --> 00:46:21.139
beyond what conceptually we logically could do.
602
00:46:22.150 --> 00:46:24.510
So, I mean, think about that.
603
00:46:24.590 --> 00:46:28.570
What if it's just I'm conceptually conditioned.
604
00:46:29.429 --> 00:46:33.539
To kind of think this way? I can't do certain things.
605
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:38.360
That's obviously, it.
606
00:46:38.340 --> 00:46:42.500
Doesn't mean, it doesn't tell you anything about, well, is
607
00:46:42.539 --> 00:46:46.519
it a justification? Just because I can't do something, the
608
00:46:46.539 --> 00:46:50.679
category I can't do something doesn't fit automatically into.
609
00:46:50.280 --> 00:46:56.730
The category of justification. so i just say it's a.
610
00:46:56.769 --> 00:47:00.010
It's a it's a category error it could be but
611
00:47:00.090 --> 00:47:02.429
like you have to go beyond just that because we
612
00:47:02.469 --> 00:47:04.389
have plenty of things that we can't do we don't
613
00:47:04.449 --> 00:47:06.349
immediately say well see i.
614
00:47:06.309 --> 00:47:09.070
Can't do it yeah good point yeah because i can't
615
00:47:09.150 --> 00:47:11.650
do a thing or conceive of it a different way
616
00:47:11.769 --> 00:47:14.789
like there's all kinds of things that you would agree
617
00:47:14.929 --> 00:47:17.849
right everyone would agree hopefully well that doesn't mean that
618
00:47:18.110 --> 00:47:21.210
the other position is therefore justified right.
619
00:47:21.360 --> 00:47:27.000
Yeah and um Furthermore, it tells you nothing about the world.
620
00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:33.590
We're still stuck in this kind of question. Do the
621
00:47:33.760 --> 00:47:38.849
things that I use with logic and reference and stuff
622
00:47:38.889 --> 00:47:43.849
like that, do they actually refer to anything? And that's
623
00:47:43.889 --> 00:47:48.619
why you kind of. You kind of end in philosophy.
624
00:47:48.639 --> 00:47:51.719
I think the epistemologists and philosophers kind of realize this,
625
00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:53.400
and you can already get this in Quine, this kind
626
00:47:53.420 --> 00:47:58.039
of metaphysical quietism, where the death.
627
00:47:57.860 --> 00:48:00.760
Of metaphysics, it's like, well, actually, nobody can answer that.
628
00:48:00.820 --> 00:48:04.429
It's probably, you know, I mean, it starts with Kant
629
00:48:04.769 --> 00:48:06.590
and the numeral world and stuff like that.
630
00:48:07.630 --> 00:48:08.750
But, I mean, that's a.
631
00:48:08.710 --> 00:48:14.440
Whole other question. So I can't do something. first thing
632
00:48:14.539 --> 00:48:16.500
is that that doesn't tell me it's a justification.
633
00:48:16.519 --> 00:48:19.340
Number two, what does that tell me about the world
634
00:48:19.440 --> 00:48:27.699
or anything substantive? Therefore, the opposite categories, look, I can't
635
00:48:27.739 --> 00:48:31.630
do this without this, without leading to this, that therefore
636
00:48:31.690 --> 00:48:33.510
the other category.
637
00:48:34.849 --> 00:48:38.130
Applies to something true in the world, it's justified, et cetera.
638
00:48:39.469 --> 00:48:40.769
That never tells you that.
639
00:48:42.030 --> 00:48:44.530
And that's what we want to actually know. And, uh,
640
00:48:48.050 --> 00:48:50.190
you know, these, the coercion is not going.
641
00:48:50.030 --> 00:48:50.750
To tell you that.
642
00:48:52.030 --> 00:48:54.619
What about, uh, you, you gave, I think in one
643
00:48:54.639 --> 00:48:57.739
of your papers, it was on the coin paper. You
644
00:48:57.780 --> 00:49:00.260
mentioned like the schizophrenic. I remember that being a good
645
00:49:00.280 --> 00:49:03.519
example too. Like what was, do you remember that example?
646
00:49:07.170 --> 00:49:13.230
So, uh, We have this kind.
647
00:49:13.010 --> 00:49:17.219
Of normativity like how you ought to because in epistemology
648
00:49:17.239 --> 00:49:18.750
there obviously is normativity.
649
00:49:19.730 --> 00:49:22.670
But it's kind of shallow in terms of the justification,
650
00:49:23.010 --> 00:49:24.590
very weak, if anything.
651
00:49:24.329 --> 00:49:26.550
At all, that.
652
00:49:28.280 --> 00:49:30.840
We certainly, so we'd say, well, this.
653
00:49:30.760 --> 00:49:32.940
Is how normal people think. Well, how do we, that
654
00:49:32.960 --> 00:49:34.599
already kind of begs the question, right?
655
00:49:34.639 --> 00:49:39.159
That we have some type of criterion standard for determining.
656
00:49:38.420 --> 00:49:44.809
What normality is. Um, Because we certainly look at a category,
657
00:49:44.849 --> 00:49:46.210
we say, that's.
658
00:49:46.289 --> 00:49:51.610
Abnormal and incorrect by normative standards, and that would be schizophrenia.
659
00:49:52.429 --> 00:49:55.650
So we certainly know that, I mean, they have a
660
00:49:55.650 --> 00:50:00.989
whole logic. And what's interesting, they probably have, you know,
661
00:50:01.010 --> 00:50:03.469
some of the smarter schizophrenics probably.
662
00:50:03.260 --> 00:50:08.619
Have a pretty coherent system, but it's incorrect. And so
663
00:50:08.800 --> 00:50:12.619
we just entertain this kind of thought experiment and well,
664
00:50:12.780 --> 00:50:17.119
what if we're all just schizophrenic? And somebody's like, oh,
665
00:50:17.320 --> 00:50:19.699
and the schizophrenics people, they're right?
666
00:50:19.739 --> 00:50:21.289
I'm like, no, you don't even need to go there.
667
00:50:21.409 --> 00:50:25.110
Just be looking at another species or subspecies of schizophrenia.
668
00:50:26.489 --> 00:50:26.769
Right?
669
00:50:27.550 --> 00:50:32.969
It calls into question, you know, how do we know
670
00:50:32.989 --> 00:50:35.949
that those faculties, I mean, they can't help but think
671
00:50:35.989 --> 00:50:36.380
that way.
672
00:50:37.159 --> 00:50:37.820
Because why?
673
00:50:37.840 --> 00:50:41.300
They're mentally conditioned through, you know, various things.
674
00:50:41.179 --> 00:50:43.380
That we could talk about. To think that way, I'm
675
00:50:43.400 --> 00:50:45.599
sure they, like I said, some of the smarter people
676
00:50:45.619 --> 00:50:49.460
have a whole coherent kind of system, but it's not real.
677
00:50:50.460 --> 00:50:53.239
Yeah, like Lord of the Rings is a very elaborate,
678
00:50:53.510 --> 00:50:57.710
consistent narrative and system, but it doesn't mean that it's
679
00:50:57.769 --> 00:51:01.110
true because it's elaborate and consistent. And even if you
680
00:51:01.230 --> 00:51:03.710
put into the Lord of the Rings narrative like an
681
00:51:03.750 --> 00:51:08.670
account for logic, right, within Middle Earth, right, and, oh,
682
00:51:08.769 --> 00:51:12.329
necessary starting points for any logical predication within the Lord
683
00:51:12.550 --> 00:51:16.110
of the Rings, Middle Earth universe, that doesn't mean or
684
00:51:16.150 --> 00:51:19.590
tell us that it's ontologically the case in the external world.
685
00:51:20.139 --> 00:51:23.179
Maybe we just necessarily, this is what this whole Kant
686
00:51:23.199 --> 00:51:26.400
thing is like, maybe we're just conditioned. I think Kant
687
00:51:26.420 --> 00:51:28.840
would say we are. Kant would say, as far as
688
00:51:28.880 --> 00:51:35.679
we can go, we're just basically, our minds are, Bonson's
689
00:51:35.719 --> 00:51:38.880
analogy is like, Kant sees the human mind as an
690
00:51:39.019 --> 00:51:42.699
ice tray, and the incoming information is the water that
691
00:51:42.760 --> 00:51:46.579
fills up the little sections of the ice tray. And
692
00:51:46.699 --> 00:51:50.539
the mind just has this function to be like an
693
00:51:50.659 --> 00:51:55.380
ice tray, giving form and coherent, consistent meaning to the
694
00:51:55.420 --> 00:51:59.909
incoming external data. But you can never get out of
695
00:52:00.329 --> 00:52:04.829
that little box to know if the external world actually
696
00:52:04.849 --> 00:52:10.329
is conforming to these categories that are categories of the mind.
697
00:52:11.010 --> 00:52:15.570
So basically, Aristotle's categories for, you know, making sense of
698
00:52:15.610 --> 00:52:21.679
the world and metaphysics, quality, quantity, time, determination, location, etc.
699
00:52:22.400 --> 00:52:28.099
Those are, in Kant's scheme, psychologized to be real structures
700
00:52:28.139 --> 00:52:33.909
of the mind. But the problem is that that's all
701
00:52:33.949 --> 00:52:40.449
it is. You can never justify the metaphysics beyond just
702
00:52:40.769 --> 00:52:44.969
mental affirmations of what the appearances to the senses appear
703
00:52:45.010 --> 00:52:48.750
to be. You don't know the bat in itself. So
704
00:52:48.869 --> 00:52:52.110
all you know is the preconditions for the knowledge of
705
00:52:52.179 --> 00:52:54.500
a bat and then whatever the bat facts are.
706
00:52:55.639 --> 00:53:00.880
And that's why philosophy goes under two directions. It either
707
00:53:00.960 --> 00:53:03.219
goes into phenomenology.
708
00:53:04.019 --> 00:53:08.690
And it does what Husserl calls bracketing. Yep. Um, and
709
00:53:08.710 --> 00:53:10.449
there's good stuff about phenomenology.
710
00:53:10.670 --> 00:53:12.889
Like I'm not saying there's some, some excellent, I was
711
00:53:12.929 --> 00:53:17.880
just talking with Sarah Fultz about this, uh, some great
712
00:53:17.960 --> 00:53:22.630
Christian phenomenologists that are, that are coming out. Um, But
713
00:53:22.710 --> 00:53:25.329
ultimately that occurs because of the death of metaphysics. So
714
00:53:25.349 --> 00:53:29.500
philosophy either goes into kind of continental philosophy and phenomenology,
715
00:53:30.460 --> 00:53:35.579
or it goes into mathematics and philosophy of language and
716
00:53:35.960 --> 00:53:36.900
analytic philosophy.
717
00:53:36.960 --> 00:53:41.019
It's just like, well... we can't ever say anything substantive
718
00:53:41.039 --> 00:53:43.960
about the world. We're locked in the kind of phenomenal world.
719
00:53:44.000 --> 00:53:47.079
So what we can focus on though is kind of
720
00:53:47.199 --> 00:53:49.619
axiomatic systems and the structure of.
721
00:53:49.579 --> 00:53:51.139
Language and logic and stuff.
722
00:53:51.400 --> 00:53:55.119
And that's basically where philosophy has gone.
723
00:53:55.139 --> 00:53:57.860
Unfortunately. Yeah. It ends in psychology.
724
00:53:59.739 --> 00:54:01.420
And then psychologism. Yeah. That's the other.
725
00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:06.989
Yeah. Um, so I think again, as far as I
726
00:54:07.010 --> 00:54:09.599
can tell at this point, the main issue that we
727
00:54:09.619 --> 00:54:13.519
would say critiquing this is that it's not really, it's
728
00:54:13.559 --> 00:54:16.639
not starting with revelation, which is where we would go.
729
00:54:16.820 --> 00:54:19.400
It's a system building project, which might contain within it
730
00:54:19.420 --> 00:54:22.440
some good insights and argumentation. It might be in ways
731
00:54:22.500 --> 00:54:25.610
similar to a tag kind of argument because it's doing
732
00:54:25.650 --> 00:54:29.670
a kind of a priori type of move. And it's
733
00:54:29.710 --> 00:54:34.190
at least understanding, you know, theory laid in coherence. But
734
00:54:34.230 --> 00:54:35.610
to me, it seems like it's still kind of a
735
00:54:35.690 --> 00:54:40.039
coherence theory type of argument, assuming that, certain a priori
736
00:54:40.460 --> 00:54:42.869
axioms and it's like yeah we would agree that there
737
00:54:42.929 --> 00:54:47.170
are perhaps a priori axioms but even in our argumentation
738
00:54:47.190 --> 00:54:50.550
anything that's an a priori axiom is still relying on
739
00:54:51.570 --> 00:54:54.989
the metaphysics of Christianity to be possible and so that's
740
00:54:55.050 --> 00:55:01.599
why there's really not strictly speaking any self-evident maxims or
741
00:55:01.699 --> 00:55:03.960
axioms and that's why when I was thinking about this
742
00:55:05.400 --> 00:55:08.030
the other day I was like Even the term self-evidence,
743
00:55:08.070 --> 00:55:10.469
I'm not trying to misattribute positions to him, but I'm
744
00:55:10.489 --> 00:55:13.050
just saying all the other people that we interact with
745
00:55:13.090 --> 00:55:15.570
that talk about how there's all these self-evident things, I'm like,
746
00:55:16.130 --> 00:55:18.690
just think about the term self-evident. I mean, we don't
747
00:55:18.710 --> 00:55:21.289
even know what a self is. If we're just looking
748
00:55:21.329 --> 00:55:24.630
for the most basic, grounded-out starting point, and you're going
749
00:55:24.650 --> 00:55:29.639
to say self-evident axioms, that's how silly it is. We
750
00:55:29.659 --> 00:55:30.480
don't even know what a self is.
751
00:55:32.469 --> 00:55:37.280
They mean the proposition. It's like itself, not itself like us.
752
00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:41.599
So, for example, if we look for the justification or
753
00:55:42.679 --> 00:55:45.840
some reasons to believe a proposition like the evidence and
754
00:55:45.860 --> 00:55:49.420
stuff like that, it's usually outside the proposition itself.
755
00:55:49.500 --> 00:55:54.860
For example, the tree is six feet high. It's a
756
00:55:54.860 --> 00:55:56.550
small tree. It's green, etc.
757
00:55:57.110 --> 00:56:01.050
Well, there's no justification within the proposition itself.
758
00:56:02.219 --> 00:56:04.460
And so what do we do? You look empirically and.
759
00:56:04.400 --> 00:56:07.940
You gather evidence for the proposition outside.
760
00:56:07.599 --> 00:56:08.380
Of the proposition.
761
00:56:08.900 --> 00:56:11.719
But to say self-evident means the evidence is inside the
762
00:56:11.760 --> 00:56:13.000
proposition itself.
763
00:56:13.940 --> 00:56:17.900
That as soon as you understand the meaning of the words....
764
00:56:20.059 --> 00:56:23.000
Yeah, but I'm talking about how these Tim Gordons are
765
00:56:23.019 --> 00:56:24.880
going to conceive of it. They're going to conceive of
766
00:56:24.940 --> 00:56:30.280
it as not just... It's not going to be metaphysically quiet.
767
00:56:30.340 --> 00:56:33.300
It's going to also mean there is the self who's,
768
00:56:33.579 --> 00:56:37.019
you know, the knower of the proposition. So there might be,
769
00:56:37.119 --> 00:56:38.199
it begs a question too.
770
00:56:38.280 --> 00:56:45.949
If you say self evidence, any proposition that, uh, once the,
771
00:56:46.090 --> 00:56:53.010
the words are understood, um, becomes evidence of the truth
772
00:56:53.030 --> 00:56:56.340
of itself. Well, we haven't even got to that. You
773
00:56:56.360 --> 00:57:01.260
can even understand anything, right? That's the whole question about, uh,
774
00:57:02.340 --> 00:57:04.039
Is knowledge, is.
775
00:57:04.019 --> 00:57:06.840
Anybody even in a state of knowledge? So it's like
776
00:57:06.920 --> 00:57:07.539
I just have to.
777
00:57:07.480 --> 00:57:12.500
Grant like, and furthermore, it's a problem with analyticity.
778
00:57:13.360 --> 00:57:16.309
Is these analytic statements that, well, as soon as I
779
00:57:16.349 --> 00:57:18.969
understand the terms.
780
00:57:19.929 --> 00:57:23.389
Bachelor and part and whole and stuff like that, then
781
00:57:23.449 --> 00:57:25.429
it's true by, it's.
782
00:57:25.829 --> 00:57:29.210
You know, the very nature of the terms. What's the
783
00:57:29.250 --> 00:57:31.389
problem with that? It doesn't tell you anything substantive.
784
00:57:31.760 --> 00:57:33.119
Yeah, it's done telling another world, right?
785
00:57:33.139 --> 00:57:35.489
And this is what kind of Quine does too.
786
00:57:35.590 --> 00:57:37.010
It reduces the definitions, right?
787
00:57:37.510 --> 00:57:41.610
Yeah, it either reduces to something just ontological or ends up,
788
00:57:41.670 --> 00:57:45.010
as Quine says, it's just circular. Because Quine actually has
789
00:57:45.030 --> 00:57:51.190
a legitimate critique of analyticity and analytic statements.
790
00:57:51.510 --> 00:57:53.070
Yeah. And so it's.
791
00:57:53.010 --> 00:57:59.429
So funny that these people use these self-evident and analytic
792
00:57:59.489 --> 00:58:02.920
statements to It's like, do you not, have you not read.
793
00:58:02.659 --> 00:58:08.300
The history of philosophy? That's done. It didn't go anywhere. There's,
794
00:58:08.659 --> 00:58:10.570
it's like, you don't know the critiques of those things.
795
00:58:12.590 --> 00:58:15.050
So, you know, they just go.
796
00:58:15.010 --> 00:58:16.329
Back and hand wave these things.
797
00:58:16.349 --> 00:58:19.010
Well, I'm just going back to antiquity where we did
798
00:58:19.110 --> 00:58:20.590
use these things and it wasn't a problem.
799
00:58:20.670 --> 00:58:23.590
It's like, you can't do that. Yeah, I'm just going
800
00:58:23.610 --> 00:58:27.030
to ignore the problems. It's like, that's what the papists
801
00:58:27.090 --> 00:58:29.199
are like. Yeah, I'm just going to ignore Vatican II
802
00:58:29.280 --> 00:58:35.159
and just pretend that it's the year 1300. Anyway, so
803
00:58:35.179 --> 00:58:37.780
he goes on to just say, he makes some jokes.
804
00:58:37.820 --> 00:58:42.130
He says, don't become a professor, Dave. You're like Hunter
805
00:58:42.150 --> 00:58:45.030
Thompson with a bottle, a six gun and a snoot
806
00:58:45.050 --> 00:58:48.230
full of Coke and a belly full of hallucinogens. You're
807
00:58:48.289 --> 00:58:52.110
wild in Raccoon City, which is, I thought it was
808
00:58:52.130 --> 00:58:53.989
kind of funny because we were talking about Resident Evil
809
00:58:54.010 --> 00:58:58.260
and I'm like, well, I'm definitely not as wild as
810
00:58:59.079 --> 00:59:01.960
Hunter S. Thompson. I can assure you that. I haven't
811
00:59:02.000 --> 00:59:05.230
done hallucinogens since I was 17, and I don't intend
812
00:59:05.269 --> 00:59:06.630
to do that anymore.
813
00:59:06.829 --> 00:59:08.510
Are they going to say since I was seven?
814
00:59:08.590 --> 00:59:15.670
Since I was seven. Um, now moving on to the papacy, uh,
815
00:59:15.909 --> 00:59:18.110
once again, vindicated, we've been saying for, I don't know
816
00:59:18.130 --> 00:59:21.610
how many years that the papacy has essentially become a
817
00:59:21.690 --> 00:59:24.329
Judaized institution. And what we mean by that is that
818
00:59:24.369 --> 00:59:29.269
the church's first heresy of Judaizing condemned in Acts 15, uh,
819
00:59:30.840 --> 00:59:37.869
in the Jerusalem Council after much dissension and debate. The
820
00:59:38.110 --> 00:59:40.969
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, which, as you may recall,
821
00:59:41.030 --> 00:59:46.559
put out the Reflections on Covenant and Mission document in 2003,
822
00:59:46.550 --> 00:59:48.289
which is a huge scandal in the Roman Catholic world
823
00:59:48.349 --> 00:59:51.909
because it said not to proselytize Jews because they're already
824
00:59:51.949 --> 00:59:54.429
in covenant with God. Going so far as to seemingly
825
00:59:54.489 --> 00:59:59.760
acknowledge a dual covenant theology like dispensationalism. which is very
826
00:59:59.800 --> 01:00:02.800
bizarre for the Roman Catholic Church. Although actually, if we
827
01:00:02.820 --> 01:00:07.409
understand Gregory Baum, the author of Nostra Aetate and Vatican II,
828
01:00:07.750 --> 01:00:10.469
it's actually not that far-fetched. So let's hear what this
829
01:00:11.030 --> 01:00:15.280
random bishop says. Representing the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops,
830
01:00:15.320 --> 01:00:19.079
that's all the bishops of the American Catholic Church, speaking
831
01:00:19.159 --> 01:00:22.719
for the Day of Atonement, the Jewish holiday.
832
01:00:23.000 --> 01:00:26.869
As our Jewish friends and neighbors observe Yom Kippur, By the.
833
01:00:27.030 --> 01:00:29.409
Way, notice the lisp. I mean, can you find a
834
01:00:29.409 --> 01:00:31.590
Roman Catholic bishop or priest that doesn't have a lisp?
835
01:00:31.989 --> 01:00:32.489
Let me know.
836
01:00:33.769 --> 01:00:36.849
I want to extend my warmest wishes for a meaningful
837
01:00:37.289 --> 01:00:40.170
and a peaceful day. Yom Kippur is the holiest day
838
01:00:40.230 --> 01:00:43.269
of the Jewish year. For Jewish communities around the world,
839
01:00:43.889 --> 01:00:47.929
it is marked by fasting, prayer, and repentance, and by
840
01:00:48.030 --> 01:00:52.159
seeking reconciliation with God and with one another. Following on
841
01:00:52.199 --> 01:00:55.119
the joy of renewal of Rosh Hashanah just a few
842
01:00:55.159 --> 01:01:00.260
days before, Yom Kippur invites a searching examination of the
843
01:01:00.280 --> 01:01:04.579
year that has passed and a commitment to the year ahead.
844
01:01:05.699 --> 01:01:09.179
Does he mention that these festivals also classically have included
845
01:01:09.460 --> 01:01:13.389
the cursing of Christians? I mean, that's a Purim, but
846
01:01:13.449 --> 01:01:16.090
it's like, has he not read Hebrews? I mean, Hebrews
847
01:01:16.110 --> 01:01:20.590
says to continue to celebrate these feasts after the fulfillment
848
01:01:20.630 --> 01:01:25.679
in Christ is essentially Antichrist. So very bizarre that But
849
01:01:25.739 --> 01:01:28.820
actually not bizarre because this is the state of Roman
850
01:01:28.840 --> 01:01:32.300
Catholicism in reality. You can hear people yapping all day
851
01:01:32.340 --> 01:01:34.980
long on the internet about returning to the Middle Ages
852
01:01:35.199 --> 01:01:40.650
and returning to LARPing, crusading, Teutonic Knights or whatever. That's
853
01:01:40.690 --> 01:01:42.849
never going to happen. That's not reality. This is the
854
01:01:42.889 --> 01:01:44.090
reality of the Roman Catholic Church.
855
01:01:44.130 --> 01:01:48.289
This observance is the recognition that our relationships with God
856
01:01:48.949 --> 01:01:54.489
and with one another call us continually to reflection, repentance,
857
01:01:56.900 --> 01:02:03.670
So notice.
858
01:02:02.710 --> 01:02:06.050
The move was from discussing the Jewish holiday to we
859
01:02:06.170 --> 01:02:09.309
all of us together are doing kind of the same thing, right?
860
01:02:09.329 --> 01:02:13.239
The sort of Masonic syncretist idea that, look, all the
861
01:02:13.300 --> 01:02:15.920
religions are just doing and trying the same thing. We're
862
01:02:15.960 --> 01:02:19.199
all trying to get right with the God, whatever that is,
863
01:02:19.219 --> 01:02:20.760
the natural theology, the generic.
864
01:02:20.980 --> 01:02:23.579
Hey, by the way, you'll find interesting guests who my
865
01:02:23.639 --> 01:02:28.010
philosophy department's bringing in this Wednesday through.
866
01:02:27.869 --> 01:02:30.590
Friday, and then he's going to do a lecture Thursday.
867
01:02:30.610 --> 01:02:37.050
And then a faculty quote-unquote discussion with the department.
868
01:02:37.070 --> 01:02:38.969
I know who it is.
869
01:02:39.980 --> 01:02:40.940
Yeah, isn't that interesting?
870
01:02:40.960 --> 01:02:47.380
It's Andrew Tate. Is it Misfit Patriot? No, Dr.
871
01:02:47.449 --> 01:02:50.019
Francis Beckwith from Baylor.
872
01:02:51.280 --> 01:02:53.800
Who's he? I don't remember him. What's he do?
873
01:02:53.900 --> 01:02:58.900
He's a Thomistic philosopher out of Baylor.
874
01:03:00.059 --> 01:03:03.889
And he's going to be taught. The Thursday one's really interesting.
875
01:03:03.969 --> 01:03:05.269
I think it's about.
876
01:03:06.969 --> 01:03:10.090
Why academia has become liberal. It'll be really interesting.
877
01:03:11.750 --> 01:03:13.409
But the Friday.
878
01:03:14.469 --> 01:03:20.889
Discussion, faculty discussion, is why Jews, Christians, and Muslims worship.
879
01:03:20.590 --> 01:03:22.449
The same God. Oh, that. Okay.
880
01:03:22.510 --> 01:03:26.099
Now, what's interesting, guess where Trent Daughtry was from?
881
01:03:27.539 --> 01:03:27.920
Under him.
882
01:03:28.960 --> 01:03:29.880
Baylor. Mm-hmm.
883
01:03:31.320 --> 01:03:33.980
So part of me was like, my parent and I
884
01:03:33.980 --> 01:03:36.400
would be like, they're conspiring over there in that call.
885
01:03:36.420 --> 01:03:38.760
But then I realized, well, actually, they're both Thomas.
886
01:03:38.780 --> 01:03:44.320
Yeah, they're like classical evidentialist type people.
887
01:03:44.599 --> 01:03:48.679
These themes also resonate deeply with us as Catholics. And
888
01:03:48.739 --> 01:03:52.079
our relationship with the Jewish people is not simply a
889
01:03:52.139 --> 01:03:56.300
matter of dialogue between two religious communities. It is rooted
890
01:03:56.440 --> 01:03:59.030
in the deep spiritual bonds that unite us.
891
01:04:00.139 --> 01:04:06.280
Yeah, but what about the horrible enslaving superstitions of rabbinic
892
01:04:06.320 --> 01:04:10.590
Judaism in the Talmud that, if you saw Tyler Oliveira's video,
893
01:04:10.690 --> 01:04:14.550
show you how miserable and unhappy people in these kinds
894
01:04:14.590 --> 01:04:16.949
of weird cults are. And that's really what it is.
895
01:04:17.050 --> 01:04:21.090
It's like a cult more so than anything else. But
896
01:04:21.269 --> 01:04:25.960
he doesn't tell you that or even explain that. Old
897
01:04:26.000 --> 01:04:29.760
Testament Hebrew religion, which is proto-Orthodox Christianity, is not the
898
01:04:29.780 --> 01:04:33.199
same thing as rabbinic post-Talmudic Judaism.
899
01:04:33.699 --> 01:04:38.570
Including our shared patrimony and the scriptural heritage from which
900
01:04:38.690 --> 01:04:42.909
both our traditions draw. That is why building genuine friendship
901
01:04:43.070 --> 01:04:47.829
and understanding between Jews and Catholics matters so deeply. It
902
01:04:47.909 --> 01:04:52.269
is also why we must reject anti-Semitism in all its
903
01:04:52.369 --> 01:04:56.389
forms and work together to to ensure that the Jewish
904
01:04:56.469 --> 01:05:00.349
people can live and worship free from hatred.
905
01:05:01.389 --> 01:05:04.670
Well, that's rich coming from the people in the medieval
906
01:05:05.010 --> 01:05:09.090
Roman Catholic councils who forbade Jews from even dressing the
907
01:05:09.130 --> 01:05:11.389
same as the rest of the population. They made them
908
01:05:11.429 --> 01:05:15.050
wear various garments to identify that they were Jews and
909
01:05:15.090 --> 01:05:18.250
Muslims when they lived in Christian societies and Christian kingdoms.
910
01:05:18.909 --> 01:05:21.429
Look how far the Roman Catholic Church has changed its
911
01:05:21.510 --> 01:05:27.050
dogma post-Vatican II. When, again, we covered this in the
912
01:05:27.170 --> 01:05:31.510
Trent Doherty debate, my opening statement dealt with all of
913
01:05:31.550 --> 01:05:36.099
these medieval Roman Catholic teachings about Judaism and Islam that
914
01:05:36.139 --> 01:05:39.059
are now absolutely 100% night and day the opposite of
915
01:05:39.099 --> 01:05:42.500
what they were. And these people have the gall to
916
01:05:42.559 --> 01:05:46.000
tell you that it's the same church, the same papacy,
917
01:05:46.039 --> 01:05:48.940
the same theology. Oh, by the way, but also theology
918
01:05:48.980 --> 01:05:52.460
evolves and doctrine develops, but also it still bathes in trash.
919
01:05:52.480 --> 01:05:54.440
It just makes absolutely no sense at all. And fear.
920
01:05:54.800 --> 01:05:59.179
As Catholics, we are called not only to oppose anti-Semitism
921
01:05:59.440 --> 01:06:03.519
when it appears, but also to deepen our understanding of
922
01:06:03.599 --> 01:06:05.900
Judaism and of the Jewish people.
923
01:06:07.440 --> 01:06:10.179
Where does, in the history of the Roman Catholic Church
924
01:06:10.219 --> 01:06:11.969
and the history of the papacy prior to Vatican II,
925
01:06:12.469 --> 01:06:16.730
was there any call to understand and deepen one's views
926
01:06:16.769 --> 01:06:21.369
of Judaism? Like, that's such a ridiculous lie. I mean,
927
01:06:21.389 --> 01:06:24.300
have they never read? They don't know about the decree
928
01:06:24.340 --> 01:06:27.099
of Cantate Domino at the Council of Florence, right? Roman
929
01:06:27.119 --> 01:06:31.940
Catholics love citing the Council of Florence because they think
930
01:06:31.980 --> 01:06:34.760
it's an own on the Orthodox, right? But if you
931
01:06:34.800 --> 01:06:39.389
read the Council of Florence, it's actually the most damning
932
01:06:39.780 --> 01:06:44.429
of any of the councils versus today's Roman Catholicism because...
933
01:06:45.420 --> 01:06:49.099
it actually says not just, you know, Jews, heretics, Muslims,
934
01:06:49.539 --> 01:06:53.119
pagans will depart from this life if they don't have
935
01:06:53.519 --> 01:06:58.949
union with the papacy. It also says that to continue
936
01:06:58.969 --> 01:07:06.309
to practice the rights of the old law is anathema meaning, uh, circumcision. Um,
937
01:07:06.369 --> 01:07:08.969
sometimes it's hard to find this, this document cause I don't,
938
01:07:09.090 --> 01:07:11.369
I think they don't even want people finding it because, um,
939
01:07:17.590 --> 01:07:21.989
It's so damning. So I'll show you just first of
940
01:07:22.050 --> 01:07:24.449
all the decree when it comes to the statement about
941
01:07:24.730 --> 01:07:28.369
the heretics. Again, Catate Domino, the Council of Florence. Council
942
01:07:28.389 --> 01:07:33.449
of Florence dogmatically teaches that all those that are not
943
01:07:33.530 --> 01:07:35.909
living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also
944
01:07:35.949 --> 01:07:38.869
Jews and heretics. How contrary is this to what you
945
01:07:38.909 --> 01:07:42.260
just heard that gay bishop say? Because it's night and day, right?
946
01:07:48.719 --> 01:07:51.400
Schismatics also cannot become participants in eternal life because they
947
01:07:51.420 --> 01:07:54.699
will depart into everlasting fire, Matthew 25, 41, unless by
948
01:07:54.719 --> 01:07:56.599
the end of their life they have been added to
949
01:07:56.619 --> 01:07:59.420
the flock. The same unity of the ecclesial bond is
950
01:07:59.460 --> 01:08:05.139
so strong that only to those remaining in it are
951
01:08:05.179 --> 01:08:08.530
the sacraments of the Catholic Church effective or benefit to salvation.
952
01:08:08.639 --> 01:08:11.250
And only by doing fastings, almsgiving, and other functions inside
953
01:08:11.269 --> 01:08:14.719
the Roman Catholic Church does this produce any reward. No one,
954
01:08:14.780 --> 01:08:17.760
whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he dies for
955
01:08:17.779 --> 01:08:20.359
the name of Christ, look at this, no martyrs outside
956
01:08:20.380 --> 01:08:23.180
of communion with the papacy can be saved unless they
957
01:08:23.199 --> 01:08:25.100
remain in the bosom of the unity of the Catholic Church.
958
01:08:26.300 --> 01:08:29.180
And then I couldn't think of a better night and
959
01:08:29.220 --> 01:08:32.319
day opposite with what we just heard. Now, let's find
960
01:08:32.460 --> 01:08:44.760
out rights of the old law in Cantate Domino. Right
961
01:08:44.779 --> 01:08:58.390
to the old lads. Right to the old lads. The
962
01:08:58.409 --> 01:09:01.869
Bull asserts that anyone after Christ... passion, placing their hope
963
01:09:01.890 --> 01:09:05.449
in the rights of the old law, commits a mortal sin.
964
01:09:09.130 --> 01:09:12.289
That is correct. And if you want to go find
965
01:09:12.310 --> 01:09:18.479
the whole... Let's see. You have to... I mean, it's
966
01:09:18.500 --> 01:09:19.859
in Denzinger, obviously, but.
967
01:09:24.020 --> 01:09:33.180
If you want to find the entire... council decree. Here
968
01:09:33.199 --> 01:09:39.699
it is, ironically, at the Association of Hebrew Catholics. Is
969
01:09:39.760 --> 01:09:42.239
it not going to give me the whole decree? You
970
01:09:42.260 --> 01:09:44.859
can't even read this, dude. This is the most ridiculous
971
01:09:44.930 --> 01:09:51.430
text I've ever seen. Oh, this is somebody's article. I'm
972
01:09:51.449 --> 01:09:57.050
not even going to read that. Oh, maybe it's here
973
01:09:57.090 --> 01:09:59.189
at Papal Encyclicals. This looks like it. Yeah, this is
974
01:09:59.210 --> 01:10:18.539
the whole So let's find circumcision. Here we go. Found it.
975
01:10:18.659 --> 01:10:21.609
So this is, actually I don't know where it is
976
01:10:21.649 --> 01:10:24.750
in the decree, but you can go to papalencyclicals.net right there.
977
01:10:24.770 --> 01:10:28.229
And it says, whoever after the passion of Christ places
978
01:10:28.270 --> 01:10:31.439
hope in the legal prescriptions and submits himself as necessary
979
01:10:31.460 --> 01:10:34.319
to salvation in the rights of the old law, could
980
01:10:34.359 --> 01:10:38.329
not say that they sin mortally. It does not deny
981
01:10:38.390 --> 01:10:46.189
that before Christ's passion, these were to be retained. But
982
01:10:46.470 --> 01:10:49.949
after the promulgation of the gospel, you cannot observe these
983
01:10:49.989 --> 01:10:57.159
without losing your salvation. Look at that. After the promulgation
984
01:10:57.180 --> 01:10:59.960
of the gospel, if you continue to observe the old rights...
985
01:11:00.380 --> 01:11:04.079
You cannot be saved. And that's exact opposite of what
986
01:11:04.100 --> 01:11:09.880
you just heard that dude say. There you go. Cantate domino.
987
01:11:11.079 --> 01:11:16.079
Just a control F search for circumcision or the rights
988
01:11:16.100 --> 01:11:23.399
of the old law, whatever. Now again, Cantate domino is
989
01:11:23.399 --> 01:11:29.680
100% dogmatic. So there's no way for weaseling out of this. Well,
990
01:11:29.720 --> 01:11:31.899
we don't have to follow what that guy... Yeah, but
991
01:11:32.100 --> 01:11:35.550
that guy is just expressing the entire Vatican II teaching. So,
992
01:11:35.989 --> 01:11:40.609
what are you talking about? I mean, in other words,
993
01:11:41.670 --> 01:11:44.029
you can argue all day long about the status of
994
01:11:44.090 --> 01:11:49.140
each bishop and pope saying whatever they say, but if
995
01:11:49.159 --> 01:11:52.140
your entire church, from its hierarchy down, from the Roman
996
01:11:52.720 --> 01:12:00.390
college down, since Vatican II has taught this ecumenist idea... No,
997
01:12:00.430 --> 01:12:03.010
you can't actually. It doesn't really even matter. Well, he
998
01:12:03.050 --> 01:12:05.029
didn't say it infallibly. It doesn't matter.
999
01:12:05.189 --> 01:12:08.180
Well, that just must be a coincidence, Jay. I mean,
1000
01:12:08.239 --> 01:12:10.539
it's just an accidental thing that happened in papism.
1001
01:12:11.420 --> 01:12:14.979
There's nothing essential that would have caused that within the system, right?
1002
01:12:15.680 --> 01:12:19.779
Well, think about this, too. If every time an issue
1003
01:12:19.819 --> 01:12:23.810
comes up, if you can just hand wave it as
1004
01:12:23.949 --> 01:12:29.180
not infallible and not binding, think how irrelevant the papacy
1005
01:12:29.260 --> 01:12:33.260
actually becomes because we're never actually getting resolutions on any
1006
01:12:33.279 --> 01:12:33.819
of these issues.
1007
01:12:35.500 --> 01:12:42.090
That's what's so ironic is they give people this con
1008
01:12:42.170 --> 01:12:47.090
sales pitch about epistemic certitude and it's.
1009
01:12:46.970 --> 01:12:47.750
Just the opposite.
1010
01:12:47.810 --> 01:12:49.850
When that rubber meets the road, it's not there at all.
1011
01:12:50.250 --> 01:12:51.710
It's not there at all. Yeah.
1012
01:12:52.609 --> 01:12:57.090
The relationships that have grown between our communities have particularly
1013
01:12:57.289 --> 01:12:59.800
through the promulgation of Nostra Aetate.
1014
01:13:00.579 --> 01:13:02.640
Ah, so look at that. How does the hierarchy of
1015
01:13:02.659 --> 01:13:05.579
the Roman Catholic Church read Nostra Aetate? Oh, exactly the
1016
01:13:05.619 --> 01:13:07.500
way we do. Does he read it the way the
1017
01:13:07.560 --> 01:13:08.979
trads try to reinterpret it?
1018
01:13:09.119 --> 01:13:11.479
Nope. Nope.
1019
01:13:29.420 --> 01:13:30.880
Actually, it wasn't a call-out. I don't even know what
1020
01:13:30.920 --> 01:13:33.010
to say about it. I don't understand what's going on
1021
01:13:33.029 --> 01:13:38.170
in Sneeko's strange mind. Here's what Sneeko said. Jay Dyer,
1022
01:13:38.189 --> 01:13:39.149
he's an Orthodox Muslim.
1023
01:13:39.170 --> 01:13:42.430
He already pointed out that Catholics believe that Muslims worship
1024
01:13:42.449 --> 01:13:43.800
the same God as Catholics.
1025
01:13:45.380 --> 01:13:50.600
What? I think he meant to say he's an Orthodox Christian,
1026
01:13:51.739 --> 01:13:55.850
but he just slipped up. So let me hear what
1027
01:13:55.869 --> 01:13:56.270
he said again.
1028
01:13:56.770 --> 01:13:56.949
Who?
1029
01:13:57.149 --> 01:13:58.630
Jay Dyer? He's an Orthodox Muslim.
1030
01:13:58.649 --> 01:14:01.909
He already pointed out that Catholics believe that Muslims worship
1031
01:14:01.930 --> 01:14:03.270
the same God as Catholics.
1032
01:14:05.720 --> 01:14:07.760
Actually, now that I've heard this like five times, I
1033
01:14:08.100 --> 01:14:12.279
misinterpreted the first couple times. He's actually correct. He just
1034
01:14:12.340 --> 01:14:15.340
misspoke about calling Orthodox Muslim. He meant to say Orthodox Christian.
1035
01:14:16.020 --> 01:14:20.600
Sneeko's actually correct here that that is the teaching. So
1036
01:14:20.659 --> 01:14:24.960
Sneeko is actually correct that the Roman Catholics teach that
1037
01:14:24.979 --> 01:14:28.359
Muslims worship Christians and Jews all worship the same deity.
1038
01:14:28.539 --> 01:14:33.550
So a lot of people are laughing at that, but
1039
01:14:33.590 --> 01:14:36.869
I'm like, no, actually Sneako's correct here. I mean, Sneako's
1040
01:14:36.909 --> 01:14:39.409
a goober. I'm not pro Sneako, but I'm saying like,
1041
01:14:39.810 --> 01:14:43.310
he's actually correct in that point. And then we got
1042
01:14:47.439 --> 01:15:00.130
another drama thing. Where was it? No, it's in my bookmarks.
1043
01:15:00.210 --> 01:15:06.720
Excuse me. Let me go to bookmarks. They keep moving things.
1044
01:15:06.760 --> 01:15:08.720
Where's the bookmarks now? I can't, here we go. History.
1045
01:15:09.340 --> 01:15:34.500
It's not even, yeah, here we go. Oh, I did
1046
01:15:34.520 --> 01:15:36.260
want to cover this because I forgot about this. This
1047
01:15:36.479 --> 01:15:43.479
is a Jeff Stanley email to Jeffrey Epstein, February 2014,
1048
01:15:43.479 --> 01:15:47.680
explaining that Jay-Z is keeping the masses from revolting against
1049
01:15:47.720 --> 01:15:49.640
the corruption of the Epstein class. This is kind of
1050
01:15:49.659 --> 01:15:52.479
crazy because we talk about the purpose of all this
1051
01:15:52.890 --> 01:15:55.630
pop culture stuff to just keep everybody under a spell.
1052
01:15:59.149 --> 01:16:01.510
You want to know why we are not Sao Paulo?
1053
01:16:01.590 --> 01:16:03.930
Watch the TV ads on the Super Bowl. It's about
1054
01:16:04.449 --> 01:16:07.989
hip blacks and hip cars with white chicks. That group
1055
01:16:08.010 --> 01:16:10.109
should be in the streets, but they've been bought off
1056
01:16:10.229 --> 01:16:15.720
by Jay-Z. Wow. So there's the Epstein class admitting that
1057
01:16:16.300 --> 01:16:21.560
the Epstein class gets off because.
1058
01:16:25.229 --> 01:16:25.430
We.
1059
01:16:26.470 --> 01:16:32.909
are entranced by Jay-Z's crappy rap songs. Also, guys, the
1060
01:16:33.010 --> 01:16:35.130
episode two of Pavel came out. If you want to
1061
01:16:35.149 --> 01:16:41.539
check it out, we went into mystical nationalism and the
1062
01:16:41.600 --> 01:16:48.920
idea of an Enlightenment propositional nation-state paradigms and how paradigms
1063
01:16:49.119 --> 01:16:55.750
affect also our geopolitics, our civics. Let's take some calls.
1064
01:16:56.029 --> 01:17:09.239
If you guys missed that, check it out. Fallen, what's up, man? Hey,
1065
01:17:09.279 --> 01:17:11.739
what's up, man?
1066
01:17:11.899 --> 01:17:15.119
Hey, yeah, I mean, I've been chatting with Father Deacon.
1067
01:17:15.140 --> 01:17:18.149
Thank you so much for talking me through this. It's
1068
01:17:18.229 --> 01:17:22.529
been really helpful. I don't know if you're interested in
1069
01:17:22.569 --> 01:17:23.649
talking about this more.
1070
01:17:25.189 --> 01:17:27.550
Yeah, I mean, go ahead and maybe make it kind
1071
01:17:27.590 --> 01:17:29.479
of quick. We don't want to spend another hour on it,
1072
01:17:29.489 --> 01:17:29.989
but go ahead.
1073
01:17:30.350 --> 01:17:34.199
Yeah, I mean, the question I've been exploring is, like,
1074
01:17:34.279 --> 01:17:37.380
is there a version of idealism that could be compatible
1075
01:17:37.420 --> 01:17:41.000
with orthodoxy? Because that's how I came to the church,
1076
01:17:41.020 --> 01:17:45.119
and that's how I've been helping people to build some
1077
01:17:45.159 --> 01:17:47.020
sort of relationship with God.
1078
01:17:47.220 --> 01:17:50.380
I think, like, maybe certain arguments out of, I mean,
1079
01:17:50.460 --> 01:17:53.100
in other words, St. Maximus, for example, is borrowing heavily
1080
01:17:53.199 --> 01:17:57.449
from Platonism at times for the, the Logie doctrine, right?
1081
01:17:57.489 --> 01:18:01.100
But we don't, we wouldn't want to say that idealism
1082
01:18:01.149 --> 01:18:03.140
is necessarily true because we don't think that all that
1083
01:18:03.199 --> 01:18:08.100
exists is ideas. God created a world that is different
1084
01:18:08.140 --> 01:18:10.800
from him. So God is uncreated. And then there's a
1085
01:18:10.840 --> 01:18:13.500
world that exists that is created. And that world is
1086
01:18:13.560 --> 01:18:17.489
not purely, uh, ideas. In fact, if you read Lasky,
1087
01:18:17.529 --> 01:18:21.189
for example, he'll talk about the realm of the Aeon,
1088
01:18:21.229 --> 01:18:24.739
which is the timeless created eternity, uh, that God created
1089
01:18:24.779 --> 01:18:28.939
where the angels exist. And that world is perhaps you
1090
01:18:28.960 --> 01:18:31.970
could say spiritual, or you could call it the mental,
1091
01:18:31.979 --> 01:18:34.109
the mindscape realm, or however you want to frame it.
1092
01:18:34.630 --> 01:18:36.829
But that's not the only thing that exists or the
1093
01:18:36.890 --> 01:18:41.149
only realm. God also created this world and solid physical
1094
01:18:41.350 --> 01:18:45.010
objects that are not identical to ideas. And so there's
1095
01:18:45.029 --> 01:18:48.069
a lot of problems with ideal. Typically, it's just sort
1096
01:18:48.090 --> 01:18:51.079
of a denial of the layers and levels of the
1097
01:18:51.119 --> 01:18:54.079
created order, which are not purely and only ideas.
1098
01:18:55.140 --> 01:18:57.239
So I'm pretty careful to.
1099
01:18:58.039 --> 01:19:01.279
Bring all of those issues up and avoid those. And
1100
01:19:02.100 --> 01:19:04.600
I mean I say explicitly in the paper that I'm
1101
01:19:04.640 --> 01:19:08.000
not sure if what I'm describing would technically be classified
1102
01:19:08.119 --> 01:19:10.119
as idealism or not. I just don't know what else
1103
01:19:10.159 --> 01:19:13.199
to call it. But basically where I got to with
1104
01:19:13.899 --> 01:19:17.899
Father Deacon was he said we need people to get
1105
01:19:17.920 --> 01:19:21.420
people thinking about things in the right way, not the
1106
01:19:21.460 --> 01:19:24.140
wrong way, which my way is like a potentially could
1107
01:19:24.739 --> 01:19:27.800
conceivably be right and be– so anyway, that's kind of
1108
01:19:27.819 --> 01:19:28.239
where I'm.
1109
01:19:28.180 --> 01:19:28.590
At with it.
1110
01:19:28.600 --> 01:19:29.939
I just think that– go ahead.
1111
01:19:31.470 --> 01:19:36.310
Well, yeah, like this system, just because it doesn't directly
1112
01:19:36.369 --> 01:19:39.939
contradict dogma and it like addresses all these issues and
1113
01:19:39.989 --> 01:19:42.899
it's really intuitive, I would say significantly more intuitive than
1114
01:19:42.939 --> 01:19:47.000
tag for most people. He says like that's still not
1115
01:19:47.279 --> 01:19:49.520
enough of a justification to actually do.
1116
01:19:50.560 --> 01:19:54.600
Yeah, I was bringing up that similar arguments came, people
1117
01:19:54.619 --> 01:19:56.699
were like, well, I came to.
1118
01:19:56.319 --> 01:19:58.800
Christianity from William Lane Craig and the.
1119
01:19:58.779 --> 01:20:04.210
Cosmological argument, and really those arguments are easier and more.
1120
01:20:04.130 --> 01:20:08.949
Intuitive, but they're incorrect.
1121
01:20:10.829 --> 01:20:11.810
Well, but I.
1122
01:20:11.770 --> 01:20:14.750
Don't think my argument is incorrect. Like, I think it
1123
01:20:14.850 --> 01:20:18.170
is compatible. So that's the thing in question is like,
1124
01:20:18.949 --> 01:20:22.920
If it is compatible and it isn't obviously incorrect for
1125
01:20:23.060 --> 01:20:25.359
any reason– Well, as long as there's.
1126
01:20:25.159 --> 01:20:27.140
An essential distinction between an.
1127
01:20:29.260 --> 01:20:32.880
Idea and matter so that matter is not just another
1128
01:20:32.920 --> 01:20:33.579
mode of idea.
1129
01:20:33.600 --> 01:20:35.699
Yeah, I mean what do you mean by idealism? Maybe
1130
01:20:35.720 --> 01:20:37.840
you should help us understand what you mean.
1131
01:20:38.619 --> 01:20:40.470
And that's kind of the challenge of the paper is like,
1132
01:20:40.619 --> 01:20:42.100
is this technically idealism or not?
1133
01:20:42.239 --> 01:20:45.250
I'd be happy to get rid of that. So if
1134
01:20:45.329 --> 01:20:46.189
you say.
1135
01:20:45.949 --> 01:20:49.409
That matter is just another mode of an idea, that
1136
01:20:49.470 --> 01:20:51.369
does contradict orthodoxy.
1137
01:20:51.569 --> 01:20:51.970
You can't.
1138
01:20:52.109 --> 01:20:52.750
Right, right, right.
1139
01:20:52.829 --> 01:20:58.510
No, I'm saying that generally, basically from the standard materialist mindset,
1140
01:20:58.810 --> 01:21:01.010
it would be another.
1141
01:21:02.010 --> 01:21:08.210
Thing that is mental, not idea, but a distinct mental...
1142
01:21:08.979 --> 01:21:11.659
substance if you want to call it a substance.
1143
01:21:11.739 --> 01:21:15.279
Yeah, we would reject that. I mean, for example, you
1144
01:21:15.319 --> 01:21:17.920
can't say, let's think about, this is what Christology and
1145
01:21:18.520 --> 01:21:20.819
Revelation has to come first. You can't say Christ's human
1146
01:21:20.859 --> 01:21:28.189
body is an idea. Or a motive. It's not a
1147
01:21:28.270 --> 01:21:30.029
mental substance in another motive.
1148
01:21:30.050 --> 01:21:32.689
It's not a mental substance in any way. So it
1149
01:21:32.729 --> 01:21:36.600
needs to be the negation. Of the mental categories.
1150
01:21:36.800 --> 01:21:38.720
My question would be then what is matter?
1151
01:21:39.279 --> 01:21:42.500
And my argument would be that whatever we explain matter
1152
01:21:42.560 --> 01:21:46.279
to be is going to be an analogy of something
1153
01:21:46.319 --> 01:21:48.000
that's more fundamentally mental.
1154
01:21:48.220 --> 01:21:50.779
And that's why to me it still ends up seeming like.
1155
01:21:50.840 --> 01:21:54.390
No, I think that's totally contradicted orthodoxy. I think it's
1156
01:21:54.529 --> 01:21:56.670
better to contrast it to the mental.
1157
01:21:58.529 --> 01:22:01.869
Yeah, I mean, the body is always, in Orthodox anthropology,
1158
01:22:01.949 --> 01:22:02.989
contrasted to.
1159
01:22:03.029 --> 01:22:05.630
So it's not closer to the mental. It's actually almost
1160
01:22:05.689 --> 01:22:06.710
a negation of the mental.
1161
01:22:06.729 --> 01:22:09.449
Well, like, you have to have... Christ has, for example,
1162
01:22:09.760 --> 01:22:14.359
a human soul with rationality and a human mind, and
1163
01:22:14.399 --> 01:22:19.140
that's distinct from the body that he has, which is physical, solid,
1164
01:22:19.359 --> 01:22:24.159
located in a specific place in time and space. Hold on.
1165
01:22:24.279 --> 01:22:29.520
Hold on, dude. And ideas and the mind are not
1166
01:22:29.619 --> 01:22:32.859
like that. So whether or not we have a perfect
1167
01:22:32.899 --> 01:22:38.109
definition of what a body is, something located in time
1168
01:22:38.130 --> 01:22:41.970
and space with mass, et cetera, it's not a question
1169
01:22:41.989 --> 01:22:44.770
of whether we have the perfect definitions of those things.
1170
01:22:44.840 --> 01:22:47.720
It's more so we still have to defend and we
1171
01:22:47.779 --> 01:22:52.539
have a worldview that's laid down to us from the Trinity,
1172
01:22:52.600 --> 01:22:57.520
and from the Incarnation, and that includes the doctrine of creation. So, no,
1173
01:22:57.560 --> 01:23:01.550
it would mess up Christology to say that Christ's body
1174
01:23:01.630 --> 01:23:03.810
is just another form of mind. It would be Gnostic.
1175
01:23:05.760 --> 01:23:08.670
Well, okay, so my specific argument is that matter, if
1176
01:23:08.710 --> 01:23:11.170
we try to actually say what it is, which I don't...
1177
01:23:11.409 --> 01:23:13.510
I mean, maybe you guys just aren't interested in trying
1178
01:23:13.550 --> 01:23:16.329
to say what matter is, but I try to argue
1179
01:23:16.350 --> 01:23:19.979
the closest analogy we have is basically a form of computation,
1180
01:23:20.140 --> 01:23:22.359
and I have an essay written on that that's... Yeah.
1181
01:23:22.460 --> 01:23:24.439
I don't like... I think you move.
1182
01:23:24.100 --> 01:23:26.420
More into an Aristotelian... It's.
1183
01:23:26.340 --> 01:23:32.560
A potency, and it's defined in contrast to mental modes. So.
1184
01:23:34.729 --> 01:23:38.729
Again, that's something I need to understand better, so potency.
1185
01:23:38.880 --> 01:23:43.479
You said it's like computation, but I mean, again, your
1186
01:23:44.579 --> 01:23:48.920
starting points are kind of ideal. Yeah, they're like idealist
1187
01:23:48.939 --> 01:23:51.340
starting points, and what I keep trying to tell you
1188
01:23:51.399 --> 01:23:54.819
is you can't come up with a system that starting
1189
01:23:54.880 --> 01:23:58.260
point ends up screwing up Christology. That's not orthodox.
1190
01:23:58.899 --> 01:24:01.079
So the starting point is, I don't know if you're
1191
01:24:01.100 --> 01:24:02.720
familiar with Stephen Wolfram at all.
1192
01:24:02.880 --> 01:24:06.439
Again, there you go. That's the problem. The starting point
1193
01:24:06.979 --> 01:24:09.229
is not orthodox. It's something else. That's the point.
1194
01:24:11.270 --> 01:24:11.689
Okay.
1195
01:24:11.750 --> 01:24:14.630
You're not starting with Trinity and Christology. You're starting with
1196
01:24:15.449 --> 01:24:17.630
some form of divine idealism.
1197
01:24:18.770 --> 01:24:21.050
Science isn't incompatible with orthodoxy.
1198
01:24:21.090 --> 01:24:23.970
That doesn't matter. That's not the question. Nobody said it was.
1199
01:24:25.300 --> 01:24:26.920
But I'm saying if we can come up with a
1200
01:24:27.000 --> 01:24:29.420
system that explains matter as basically.
1201
01:24:29.439 --> 01:24:32.399
You're system building, dude. That's the whole problem. So I'm
1202
01:24:32.420 --> 01:24:33.680
not trying to be mean to you, but I'm going
1203
01:24:33.699 --> 01:24:35.060
to move on just because I don't want to have
1204
01:24:35.079 --> 01:24:36.500
another hour debated about it.
1205
01:24:36.640 --> 01:24:40.979
I don't have any problem. I think the Aristotelian definition of.
1206
01:24:41.000 --> 01:24:44.350
Matter is far better than anything anybody else has come
1207
01:24:44.399 --> 01:24:45.949
up with.
1208
01:24:46.050 --> 01:24:50.270
Idealists, yeah, they want to collapse. Chris Langan has the
1209
01:24:50.289 --> 01:24:51.689
same type of position where it's.
1210
01:24:51.630 --> 01:24:53.739
Like, Yes, that's what I was going to say.
1211
01:24:53.779 --> 01:24:58.310
Reality is just sort of like information. And information is
1212
01:24:58.510 --> 01:25:01.590
not material, so therefore reality has to be some kind
1213
01:25:01.609 --> 01:25:05.899
of idealism. But it's like, we're orthodox.
1214
01:25:05.920 --> 01:25:09.460
We're not, like, you can't... Yeah, it matters. I would
1215
01:25:09.479 --> 01:25:13.260
totally say that's incompatible with orthodoxy. Matters not computation. It
1216
01:25:13.380 --> 01:25:19.930
already assumes the idealist position. Matters, in fact.
1217
01:25:21.029 --> 01:25:26.069
in an opposite category from Eidos, idea, right? Matter is
1218
01:25:26.149 --> 01:25:28.840
not the form and form is not the matter, even
1219
01:25:28.850 --> 01:25:34.060
though matter can have the information in it. And so
1220
01:25:34.579 --> 01:25:37.739
the closest thing that we have, like don't go farther
1221
01:25:37.880 --> 01:25:40.720
out in modern philosophy, the closest thing that we have is,
1222
01:25:40.920 --> 01:25:42.340
and the fathers used the.
1223
01:25:42.260 --> 01:25:44.989
Language, um, yeah.
1224
01:25:45.689 --> 01:25:50.779
Like, so, um, that's perfectly, you know, is it, does
1225
01:25:50.819 --> 01:25:52.180
it capture every aspect of Matt?
1226
01:25:52.279 --> 01:25:52.619
No.
1227
01:25:53.340 --> 01:25:56.479
Um, but all of those are a negation of the
1228
01:25:56.539 --> 01:26:01.000
Aristotelian system. Like, and I, in the language of matters,
1229
01:26:01.439 --> 01:26:04.199
and it's not form, it's not idea, it's.
1230
01:26:04.119 --> 01:26:08.220
Not a mind, it's not like computation. So I'd be like,
1231
01:26:08.279 --> 01:26:10.810
it's just, It's wrong from the get-go.
1232
01:26:11.050 --> 01:26:13.550
I had a similar, exactly, you're absolutely spot on. I
1233
01:26:13.590 --> 01:26:16.670
had a similar mistake when I was first becoming Orthodox,
1234
01:26:17.390 --> 01:26:20.430
where I'd read all the Platonic, most of the Platonic
1235
01:26:20.449 --> 01:26:23.739
dialogues in the Republic, and I was thinking about how
1236
01:26:23.800 --> 01:26:28.100
much of Plato refused materialism. And my thought process was, well,
1237
01:26:28.119 --> 01:26:29.380
all we've got to do is just be some kind
1238
01:26:29.399 --> 01:26:33.520
of quasi-Platonist, and that will put an end to atheistic materialism,
1239
01:26:33.539 --> 01:26:38.229
and we can sort of demonstrate the superiority of some
1240
01:26:38.270 --> 01:26:41.510
kind of divine conceptualism. And so it's the same kind
1241
01:26:41.550 --> 01:26:49.449
of roadmap that Hegel, that Leibniz, that Chris Langen, that guy.
1242
01:26:49.750 --> 01:26:51.489
I get it, and I'm not trying to say, oh,
1243
01:26:51.529 --> 01:26:55.359
I'm smarter than you. I'm saying that those systems end
1244
01:26:55.479 --> 01:26:58.060
up fraught with all of the same problems as every
1245
01:26:58.180 --> 01:27:01.699
other system, including the materialist system. because it ends up
1246
01:27:01.770 --> 01:27:05.609
being the wrong starting point for the quote system building.
1247
01:27:05.729 --> 01:27:08.770
We're not actually doing system building. We're doing system discovery.
1248
01:27:09.510 --> 01:27:12.109
In other words, there's already a system in the sense
1249
01:27:12.149 --> 01:27:16.130
that the fathers have already appropriated out of Neoplatonism and
1250
01:27:16.170 --> 01:27:21.029
out of Aristotle, the positive elements that make up our
1251
01:27:21.210 --> 01:27:25.210
Byzantine type of model. So it's not necessary for us
1252
01:27:25.310 --> 01:27:28.710
to rework an entire model. Although, yeah, it's possible that
1253
01:27:28.729 --> 01:27:32.670
there could be insights from physics and Insights from, for example,
1254
01:27:32.710 --> 01:27:36.670
information science. I think in Jason Lyle's book, he makes
1255
01:27:36.710 --> 01:27:40.130
a really good argument at the beginning that information science
1256
01:27:40.350 --> 01:27:44.789
points us in the direction of an intentional mind conveying
1257
01:27:44.850 --> 01:27:49.829
information in the universe versus this idea that matter is meaningless.
1258
01:27:50.729 --> 01:27:54.600
But the problem is these people, just like Max Tegmark,
1259
01:27:55.279 --> 01:28:01.010
they make this move that, well, wait a we'll just
1260
01:28:01.050 --> 01:28:04.329
say matter is information. It just is math problems. It
1261
01:28:04.390 --> 01:28:09.489
just is, you know, coding, binary code. And again, it's
1262
01:28:09.630 --> 01:28:13.869
a reductionist move to make it simpler to make it work, right?
1263
01:28:14.170 --> 01:28:16.229
Why don't we just say that, I mean, if you're
1264
01:28:16.250 --> 01:28:18.109
going to do that, then, okay, well, then we live
1265
01:28:18.130 --> 01:28:21.029
in a simulation. Just say we just live in this
1266
01:28:21.109 --> 01:28:24.390
program simulation. And what we think is matter is just
1267
01:28:24.409 --> 01:28:27.609
sort of computer code that makes our fingers think that
1268
01:28:27.630 --> 01:28:30.250
we're touching something solid, but that's just a computer code
1269
01:28:30.289 --> 01:28:33.140
that Tells us that we think it's solid. And I
1270
01:28:33.180 --> 01:28:35.600
think I'm interacting with bodies in the world. But no,
1271
01:28:35.680 --> 01:28:39.109
actually it's just computer code. It's the matrix. See how
1272
01:28:39.189 --> 01:28:41.180
easily that could just turn out. into the matrix right
1273
01:28:44.359 --> 01:28:48.460
and I think it's because of a desire to have
1274
01:28:49.100 --> 01:28:53.020
an airtight argument for God that's like a math problem
1275
01:28:54.779 --> 01:28:58.289
but God's not a math problem.
1276
01:28:58.590 --> 01:29:02.949
The whole You said that TAG is counterintuitive.
1277
01:29:03.109 --> 01:29:05.460
It is counterintuitive.
1278
01:29:06.079 --> 01:29:09.079
And that's because– that's why I call it a rehab program.
1279
01:29:09.140 --> 01:29:15.020
The problem isn't getting somebody to abandon a false position.
1280
01:29:15.140 --> 01:29:18.119
Right. Um, that's why we have God logic.
1281
01:29:18.180 --> 01:29:20.640
And I mean, imagine if we had like, we're supporting
1282
01:29:20.680 --> 01:29:25.359
like Mormons, uh, apologetics because they were refuting Islam really well.
1283
01:29:25.479 --> 01:29:26.600
I'd be like, absolutely not.
1284
01:29:27.399 --> 01:29:29.960
Um, because it's a wrong way of kind of thinking stuff.
1285
01:29:30.340 --> 01:29:33.300
We're called to the reason why it's counterintuitive is, is
1286
01:29:33.319 --> 01:29:38.699
the mind and there's, you know, um, there's, you know, uh,
1287
01:29:39.350 --> 01:29:42.979
spiritual life's malformed, um, So that's why it's like I'm
1288
01:29:43.000 --> 01:29:44.420
not going to just get.
1289
01:29:44.239 --> 01:29:48.979
Them over to a correct oppositional. I'm trying to renew
1290
01:29:49.020 --> 01:29:52.409
their minds so that– because once you start to.
1291
01:29:52.390 --> 01:29:56.909
Renew the mind, then TAG's completely intuitive. It's a gestaltian shift,
1292
01:29:56.989 --> 01:30:01.090
and you realize, oh, the problem isn't about simple arguments.
1293
01:30:01.149 --> 01:30:03.949
The problem is my mind. And so I don't want
1294
01:30:03.989 --> 01:30:05.329
to encourage– The problem is the heart.
1295
01:30:05.449 --> 01:30:06.289
The heart, not the mind.
1296
01:30:06.850 --> 01:30:11.220
Yeah, the heart and the– both of them are– messed
1297
01:30:11.319 --> 01:30:18.039
up um is i'm trying to renew that and fix
1298
01:30:18.439 --> 01:30:22.489
fix that um and i would never use something that
1299
01:30:22.729 --> 01:30:26.350
i believe is against the phony mars has false starting
1300
01:30:26.430 --> 01:30:28.590
points because it's like well it'll help them get to
1301
01:30:28.609 --> 01:30:31.500
the other side easier and you brought up like.
1302
01:30:31.399 --> 01:30:32.159
A lot of people uh.
1303
01:30:34.029 --> 01:30:37.050
You know, we're brought into orthodoxy to Jordan Peterson, but
1304
01:30:37.109 --> 01:30:38.329
I'm like, I would never.
1305
01:30:38.170 --> 01:30:40.630
Use Jordan, introduce somebody outside the faith to Jordan.
1306
01:30:40.670 --> 01:30:41.029
Yeah.
1307
01:30:42.430 --> 01:30:44.529
I mean, it's, yeah. So God can use a broken
1308
01:30:44.590 --> 01:30:49.590
clock or, you know, use a, you know, flawed means,
1309
01:30:49.750 --> 01:30:52.369
but we, we don't then just keep using flawed means
1310
01:30:52.430 --> 01:30:53.810
just because God can use that.
1311
01:30:53.909 --> 01:30:54.130
Right.
1312
01:30:54.189 --> 01:30:57.899
Like if, if there's, if an argument's bad, like you
1313
01:30:57.909 --> 01:31:00.579
have a duty, I think to use good arguments, not
1314
01:31:00.659 --> 01:31:03.300
just what works. We're not just pragmatists. We're not going
1315
01:31:03.319 --> 01:31:06.289
to use, dumb argument. It's like father Deacon says, well,
1316
01:31:06.369 --> 01:31:07.670
I might be able to convince a lot of people
1317
01:31:07.710 --> 01:31:10.090
to believe in God by using LSD and MK ultra.
1318
01:31:10.489 --> 01:31:14.210
So it's a very pragmatic means of like mind controlling people.
1319
01:31:14.229 --> 01:31:15.810
But yeah, but that doesn't mean that we do it
1320
01:31:15.829 --> 01:31:16.390
because it works.
1321
01:31:16.630 --> 01:31:19.600
And as I mentioned to you, I was wrong.
1322
01:31:19.609 --> 01:31:23.039
I actually believed that when I was 18, I actually used,
1323
01:31:23.180 --> 01:31:25.500
I had a psychedelic apologetic program.
1324
01:31:25.659 --> 01:31:29.000
Where I was like, Oh dude, this is totally, this
1325
01:31:29.060 --> 01:31:32.199
is so much easier than going through William Lane Craig's argument.
1326
01:31:32.520 --> 01:31:36.460
Just like, because it just because there was part of me.
1327
01:31:36.380 --> 01:31:39.439
That knew like was it Bonson or Van Til said
1328
01:31:39.460 --> 01:31:41.479
there are no atheists so there's just those that say
1329
01:31:41.520 --> 01:31:43.510
God doesn't exist so it was like a lot of
1330
01:31:43.550 --> 01:31:47.279
BS that people were like I know you're suppressing this
1331
01:31:48.239 --> 01:31:51.710
and what one way to cut through the BS was
1332
01:31:52.210 --> 01:31:58.729
just to introduce trauma I'm like we just cut through
1333
01:31:58.750 --> 01:32:00.890
all this once you're staring into the.
1334
01:32:00.829 --> 01:32:04.020
Abuse trauma based mind control and yeah we'll That would
1335
01:32:04.039 --> 01:32:05.300
be the greatest apologetic program.
1336
01:32:05.340 --> 01:32:06.500
I was wrong about that.
1337
01:32:06.960 --> 01:32:13.270
I ask all your forgiveness for my stupid, youthful pride.
1338
01:32:12.949 --> 01:32:15.409
In thinking that I had figured that out. And it
1339
01:32:15.449 --> 01:32:21.250
was wrong that I did that. And I apologize. I apologize.
1340
01:32:21.590 --> 01:32:25.640
You're going to have a whole bunch of stoner bros
1341
01:32:25.720 --> 01:32:28.239
and DMT bros signing up for your program. No, dude,
1342
01:32:28.279 --> 01:32:30.579
this is actually a great idea, man. Like, where do
1343
01:32:30.659 --> 01:32:31.300
I sign up?
1344
01:32:32.079 --> 01:32:37.729
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyways, for what it's worth, there you go. Okay.
1345
01:32:38.890 --> 01:32:41.569
Where were we at? Let's see. Luigi, what's up?
1346
01:32:41.750 --> 01:32:55.359
What's up, man? Hey, Jay. Hey, FDA. How you guys doing?
1347
01:32:55.420 --> 01:32:56.039
Yeah, what's up?
1348
01:32:58.159 --> 01:32:59.710
Yeah, I actually had a.
1349
01:32:59.909 --> 01:33:00.270
I don't know.
1350
01:33:00.409 --> 01:33:01.350
I had a question about.
1351
01:33:03.100 --> 01:33:07.619
How do you think that, do you think that.
1352
01:33:07.579 --> 01:33:12.699
Orthodoxy is in any way compatible with like any form
1353
01:33:12.819 --> 01:33:15.680
of ethno-nationalism? I know it's kind of out of left field,
1354
01:33:15.760 --> 01:33:18.659
but I just wanted to get your guys' thoughts on that.
1355
01:33:18.729 --> 01:33:22.590
Not exactly, but we're on YouTube and you can't, that's not,
1356
01:33:22.609 --> 01:33:27.920
that's still a topic that is not allowable, so. Aureliano,
1357
01:33:27.960 --> 01:33:30.380
what's up? You can just read the, uh, Russian churches
1358
01:33:30.420 --> 01:33:32.680
statement on, uh, church.
1359
01:33:32.239 --> 01:33:34.239
In the nation. Yep. Thank you.
1360
01:33:35.479 --> 01:33:40.800
What's up, man? Aureliano? I thought he had the conference
1361
01:33:40.819 --> 01:33:42.479
over here. I'm trying to find the conference. Yeah.
1362
01:33:43.699 --> 01:33:46.779
Hey, um, so I'm coming, I'm not religious, but I
1363
01:33:46.819 --> 01:33:49.779
went to Catholic school, so I'm pretty familiar with the
1364
01:33:49.859 --> 01:33:54.430
sort of Catholic worldview and Thomas Aquinas and, um, I
1365
01:33:54.449 --> 01:33:58.210
ended up studying analytic philosophy at school, and I think
1366
01:33:58.270 --> 01:34:03.069
that TAG's really interesting to me because other than like
1367
01:34:03.090 --> 01:34:06.840
Plantinga's arguments for God, it's the only one that really
1368
01:34:07.529 --> 01:34:10.880
has to deal with the worldview that the.
1369
01:34:11.260 --> 01:34:15.319
Analytic philosophers and the positivists sort of deal with.
1370
01:34:16.640 --> 01:34:20.680
And I like the idea that you said in your
1371
01:34:20.720 --> 01:34:24.600
review of the Stefan Molyneux debate that that the Catholic
1372
01:34:24.619 --> 01:34:25.340
position kind.
1373
01:34:25.220 --> 01:34:27.220
Of falls apart when it has to deal with.
1374
01:34:28.810 --> 01:34:31.689
This post-structuralist analytic worldview, whatever.
1375
01:34:31.930 --> 01:34:32.189
Yes.
1376
01:34:32.409 --> 01:34:37.810
And my question is, how does TAG, like, I'm not
1377
01:34:37.909 --> 01:34:39.130
super familiar with TAG, actually.
1378
01:34:39.170 --> 01:34:41.710
I should have researched it more before coming on, but
1379
01:34:41.750 --> 01:34:42.409
I saw you were live.
1380
01:34:43.180 --> 01:34:47.060
How does TAG, if it's trying to be really precise
1381
01:34:47.119 --> 01:34:49.439
about its logic, how does it then.
1382
01:34:50.899 --> 01:34:53.180
Arrive at a conclusion which.
1383
01:34:53.979 --> 01:34:57.279
And I know from your worldview, the Trinity is logical
1384
01:34:57.300 --> 01:34:59.819
in some, but it's also a mystery and is in
1385
01:34:59.859 --> 01:35:00.739
some way illogical.
1386
01:35:00.760 --> 01:35:01.399
Yeah.
1387
01:35:01.520 --> 01:35:03.859
Well, no, I would not say the Trinity is illogical. So,
1388
01:35:03.970 --> 01:35:07.310
and I would make a sharp distinction between super logical
1389
01:35:07.510 --> 01:35:11.670
and illogical because even within like logic itself, there's all
1390
01:35:11.729 --> 01:35:14.949
kinds of things that are like paradoxes or whatever. They're
1391
01:35:14.989 --> 01:35:19.380
not necessarily contradictions. So even normal sort of secular logic
1392
01:35:19.439 --> 01:35:24.409
admits that paradoxes aren't identical to contradictions. So, The Trinity
1393
01:35:24.489 --> 01:35:29.170
being a mystery or transcending logic isn't meaning or saying
1394
01:35:29.210 --> 01:35:32.529
that it's, quote, contradictory or irrational. We're just simply saying
1395
01:35:32.720 --> 01:35:37.979
that logic in itself kind of doesn't prove or defend
1396
01:35:38.140 --> 01:35:42.220
or justify itself. And so there really is no justification
1397
01:35:42.380 --> 01:35:45.770
for logic in a metalogical sense or that logic is
1398
01:35:45.829 --> 01:35:49.550
logical without the type of being that God is or
1399
01:35:49.590 --> 01:35:53.029
the Christian metaphysics. So that's what the claim is. And
1400
01:35:53.050 --> 01:35:57.750
it sounds, it sounds very, uh, very, uh, it's actually
1401
01:35:57.770 --> 01:36:00.329
a very simple argument. It's just so counterintuitive to what
1402
01:36:00.380 --> 01:36:03.880
most people think that they think we're making some very abstract,
1403
01:36:03.960 --> 01:36:07.119
like super, you know, if you look at Gurdell's, you know,
1404
01:36:07.140 --> 01:36:10.479
the theorem, like how Gurdell's argument for God's existence is
1405
01:36:10.500 --> 01:36:13.199
like super abstract and mathematic. And if you look at
1406
01:36:13.260 --> 01:36:16.960
Chris Langan's CTMU, it's like super abstract. Tag is actually
1407
01:36:16.979 --> 01:36:21.069
really simple. I mean, it has, within it like complex
1408
01:36:21.109 --> 01:36:25.140
things like universals or you know that kind of stuff
1409
01:36:25.319 --> 01:36:28.840
but actually we're just saying that like logic pretty much
1410
01:36:29.420 --> 01:36:33.840
doesn't make any sense on its own without something grounding
1411
01:36:33.939 --> 01:36:35.560
it and the only type of thing that could possibly
1412
01:36:35.590 --> 01:36:38.149
ground logic itself is god it's that simple.
1413
01:36:37.949 --> 01:36:41.649
So i i understand that part of the argument what's
1414
01:36:41.689 --> 01:36:46.119
the second step like you know If someone has.
1415
01:36:45.979 --> 01:36:47.180
To accept the laws.
1416
01:36:47.000 --> 01:36:51.119
Of logic and they say, okay, fine, God is the
1417
01:36:51.159 --> 01:36:54.039
only thing grounding the laws of logic, which I actually
1418
01:36:54.079 --> 01:36:56.939
think is probably true, then how do you get from
1419
01:36:57.020 --> 01:37:00.710
there to the Orthodox or even the Christian.
1420
01:37:00.329 --> 01:37:01.670
In the first place?
1421
01:37:02.210 --> 01:37:04.750
Because, and this is why I do it a certain way,
1422
01:37:04.789 --> 01:37:07.789
and there's not... People can do tag different ways. FTA
1423
01:37:07.810 --> 01:37:11.729
doesn't do it the superior way that I do. I do, yeah.
1424
01:37:11.760 --> 01:37:15.069
I was second. I do the retarded way. I do
1425
01:37:15.109 --> 01:37:18.649
the retarded Spurg version and FDA does like a very precise,
1426
01:37:18.689 --> 01:37:21.130
simple way of it, but there's different versions of, because
1427
01:37:21.170 --> 01:37:25.170
really you can do a transcendent argument from kind of anything.
1428
01:37:25.250 --> 01:37:28.289
But the way I argue, I think to get to
1429
01:37:28.329 --> 01:37:31.390
that end goal very quickly is to say, okay, if
1430
01:37:31.430 --> 01:37:34.430
we admit this about logic, you know, logic doesn't function
1431
01:37:34.760 --> 01:37:38.180
discreetly on its own. It's not in a vacuum, right?
1432
01:37:38.760 --> 01:37:42.880
If we have the idea that worldviews are paradigms as
1433
01:37:42.920 --> 01:37:46.399
a whole, They necessitate a certain kind of universe, a
1434
01:37:46.420 --> 01:37:50.140
certain kind of reality, a certain kind of structure, which
1435
01:37:50.479 --> 01:37:57.340
also exists with universals, with the external world, with a self.
1436
01:37:57.699 --> 01:38:01.800
So it's an argument pointing out one thing like logic
1437
01:38:01.859 --> 01:38:06.770
and saying, in the argument that exists within the Christian paradigm,
1438
01:38:06.819 --> 01:38:11.329
because it's an argument of two oppositional paradigms, and within
1439
01:38:11.369 --> 01:38:18.020
the Christian paradigm, Logic exists in a universal, immaterial, conceptual,
1440
01:38:18.060 --> 01:38:23.569
non-invariant way with all of those other preconditions for the
1441
01:38:23.609 --> 01:38:26.470
possibility of knowledge, for the possibility of metaphysics, for the
1442
01:38:26.489 --> 01:38:28.930
possibility of ethics. And so all of those preconditions, if
1443
01:38:28.970 --> 01:38:31.810
you sort of... took them as a list and put
1444
01:38:31.829 --> 01:38:35.050
them into a big ball, that's essentially what you get
1445
01:38:35.090 --> 01:38:38.689
in the Christian paradigm. There's not another paradigm that doesn't
1446
01:38:38.750 --> 01:38:43.779
have fundamental paradigmatic flaws that makes sense of those things.
1447
01:38:46.760 --> 01:38:50.010
Okay, I understand. I mean, I understand the argument. And
1448
01:38:50.170 --> 01:38:55.350
you also would add, too, is... And what makes.
1449
01:38:55.210 --> 01:38:59.350
It difficult is kind of the details and people's objections
1450
01:38:59.409 --> 01:38:59.850
and stuff.
1451
01:39:00.439 --> 01:39:02.899
But, you know, one of the details, too, is.
1452
01:39:02.920 --> 01:39:08.279
Which is part of the Orthodox paradigm is we reject
1453
01:39:08.380 --> 01:39:11.479
natural theology as the West has defined it.
1454
01:39:12.220 --> 01:39:14.960
And the implications of natural theology.
1455
01:39:15.470 --> 01:39:16.090
Is you could.
1456
01:39:16.609 --> 01:39:17.909
Like, the word....
1457
01:39:19.020 --> 01:39:26.680
You could establish a referent through basically a lowest common denominator.
1458
01:39:26.760 --> 01:39:29.880
So God's a mind, a creator, and stuff like that. Well,
1459
01:39:29.960 --> 01:39:30.880
we reject that.
1460
01:39:30.960 --> 01:39:36.180
So when we say God, we mean not only Trinity,
1461
01:39:36.239 --> 01:39:37.720
but everything in orthodoxy.
1462
01:39:37.760 --> 01:39:39.590
They don't even, by the way, they don't even say
1463
01:39:39.619 --> 01:39:42.369
God's a creator. Fasernel says you can't show that with
1464
01:39:42.409 --> 01:39:46.550
natural theology. So he admits, you could say an eternal mover.
1465
01:39:47.609 --> 01:39:51.289
So that's why I pull from Gerby the term God.
1466
01:39:51.390 --> 01:39:55.670
Now, a cancer is a proper name. Sure. And by
1467
01:39:55.710 --> 01:39:57.829
the proper name in Orthodoxy means father.
1468
01:39:57.850 --> 01:39:58.189
Right.
1469
01:39:58.829 --> 01:40:01.390
Which already means it implies a son and so on.
1470
01:40:01.409 --> 01:40:02.250
Yeah, the Trinity, right.
1471
01:40:02.270 --> 01:40:03.689
Yeah, so when you.
1472
01:40:03.630 --> 01:40:08.489
Do use it, it's just the term God itself.
1473
01:40:09.100 --> 01:40:13.899
Is often a flaccid designator. It's not a rigid designator.
1474
01:40:13.920 --> 01:40:14.779
And so.
1475
01:40:16.579 --> 01:40:21.119
What establishes the reference are all the kind of linguistic
1476
01:40:21.180 --> 01:40:24.739
and religious rules of an entire paradigm. So what we
1477
01:40:24.810 --> 01:40:26.670
do is like when people are like, oh, I get it,
1478
01:40:26.850 --> 01:40:28.050
how it gets you to God.
1479
01:40:28.130 --> 01:40:31.729
It's like, no, you don't because God doesn't necessarily refer
1480
01:40:31.750 --> 01:40:32.210
to anything.
1481
01:40:34.130 --> 01:40:38.739
And so we need to look at the entire paradigm
1482
01:40:39.159 --> 01:40:44.319
of how the term God then is actually conditioned in
1483
01:40:44.380 --> 01:40:48.560
terms of its sense and reference. And that's what Jay's
1484
01:40:48.659 --> 01:40:49.600
actually talking about.
1485
01:40:49.659 --> 01:40:53.069
So it's not just, oh, yeah, I get it. The
1486
01:40:53.109 --> 01:40:56.199
transcendental argument, God's a necessary condition. It's like, no, no, no,
1487
01:40:56.250 --> 01:40:57.069
it's much more than that.
1488
01:40:57.210 --> 01:40:58.550
Yeah, there is no generic.
1489
01:40:58.590 --> 01:40:59.890
Denial of natural theology.
1490
01:40:59.909 --> 01:41:00.329
Exactly.
1491
01:41:00.390 --> 01:41:01.390
There's no generic.
1492
01:41:02.189 --> 01:41:04.789
So you can't actually say that I see how it
1493
01:41:04.810 --> 01:41:08.189
gets you to God. We're immediately into the sort of kind.
1494
01:41:08.029 --> 01:41:11.529
Of details that I just talked about right there. It's
1495
01:41:11.710 --> 01:41:12.109
all the.
1496
01:41:12.069 --> 01:41:17.270
Kind of liturgical religious kind of rules that operate in
1497
01:41:17.329 --> 01:41:20.630
kind of a theory of semantics that actually determines that
1498
01:41:20.689 --> 01:41:22.069
when we mean God, we don't.
1499
01:41:21.930 --> 01:41:22.810
Just mean Trinity.
1500
01:41:22.850 --> 01:41:26.810
We mean everything in the orthodoxy that talks about God.
1501
01:41:27.149 --> 01:41:28.850
And so that's what we're actually arguing for.
1502
01:41:29.380 --> 01:41:34.020
Exactly, and that's why it's not classical theism as Roman
1503
01:41:34.039 --> 01:41:35.640
Catholicism and Thomism promote.
1504
01:41:37.520 --> 01:41:40.939
Yeah, it seems like it's also a super strong argument
1505
01:41:41.100 --> 01:41:46.079
because of the paradigm aspect of it, and even to
1506
01:41:46.180 --> 01:41:48.810
understand it in the first place, I have to put
1507
01:41:48.890 --> 01:41:51.170
in the work to understand the Orthodox.
1508
01:41:51.329 --> 01:41:54.270
Unfortunately, that is the worst part of TAG, is that
1509
01:41:54.289 --> 01:41:57.090
it requires some of the legwork of understanding the paradigm.
1510
01:41:57.109 --> 01:41:57.489
You're correct.
1511
01:41:58.479 --> 01:42:02.539
So when I put, let's say, in all the transcendental argument,
1512
01:42:02.619 --> 01:42:07.229
let's say I borrow that term from Immanuel Kant, is not,
1513
01:42:07.949 --> 01:42:11.670
you know, arguing for the transcendentals or anything like that.
1514
01:42:11.890 --> 01:42:13.149
It's simply....
1515
01:42:14.569 --> 01:42:18.029
Transcendentally deducing in a deductive argument.
1516
01:42:17.590 --> 01:42:21.189
The necessary conditions for experiencing an argument. So it could
1517
01:42:21.229 --> 01:42:23.529
be from the transit. It could be anything. And I
1518
01:42:23.590 --> 01:42:25.489
put that in a form. I could do it in
1519
01:42:25.609 --> 01:42:29.050
other forms to use a modus ponens, right? Now, why
1520
01:42:29.069 --> 01:42:31.130
do I do that? People were like, well, that doesn't work.
1521
01:42:31.170 --> 01:42:33.770
It's like, okay, but this is generally understanding arguments.
1522
01:42:34.739 --> 01:42:37.760
Like nobody's saying that arguments like that's all you need
1523
01:42:37.840 --> 01:42:40.760
is that modus ponens because, again, it's the details.
1524
01:42:40.880 --> 01:42:44.079
It's like that are important that we get into.
1525
01:42:44.100 --> 01:42:47.359
I'm just trying to get people to see– to think
1526
01:42:47.420 --> 01:42:53.649
transcendentally about these kind of meta-epistemic and meta-theoretic questions.
1527
01:42:54.250 --> 01:42:55.319
And that's what's good about it.
1528
01:42:55.390 --> 01:42:57.930
It's like now once you understand what we're doing, let's
1529
01:42:57.970 --> 01:43:01.970
go into the details of the– But people always think
1530
01:43:02.029 --> 01:43:02.729
that it's like.
1531
01:43:03.010 --> 01:43:08.430
That's why I say the argument doesn't actually technically prove God.
1532
01:43:08.449 --> 01:43:09.529
Because think about this.
1533
01:43:09.550 --> 01:43:13.649
I have to ask the question, just as Carl and
1534
01:43:13.710 --> 01:43:17.649
any other probably modern epistemologist, like, what are the necessary
1535
01:43:17.689 --> 01:43:20.520
conditions that make inference possible?
1536
01:43:21.899 --> 01:43:25.319
Okay. Well, a transcendental deduction is a type of inference.
1537
01:43:26.539 --> 01:43:30.619
So I've got a problem here. Is the necessary condition....
1538
01:43:31.239 --> 01:43:36.510
The transcendental deduction itself or is the transcendental deduction referring
1539
01:43:36.550 --> 01:43:44.539
to something that's beyond the transcendental inference that actually establishes
1540
01:43:44.619 --> 01:43:48.140
it as a necessary condition that makes that possible and
1541
01:43:48.180 --> 01:43:51.590
that's why Jay said it's super it's like it's not
1542
01:43:52.529 --> 01:43:56.270
illogical it just means all the truths of logic are
1543
01:43:56.310 --> 01:43:59.189
derived right and there's you can see the clues and
1544
01:43:59.250 --> 01:44:03.250
stuff in creation even the logical laws but it's not
1545
01:44:03.310 --> 01:44:07.609
actually logic that's proving god yeah it's causing your mind
1546
01:44:07.670 --> 01:44:08.689
to go okay but what are.
1547
01:44:08.649 --> 01:44:11.689
The conditions for that i see clues in.
1548
01:44:11.590 --> 01:44:15.270
The created order great point and it It puts you
1549
01:44:15.279 --> 01:44:16.789
to something that's uncreated.
1550
01:44:16.829 --> 01:44:17.930
Beyond the creative.
1551
01:44:17.729 --> 01:44:18.090
Order, exactly.
1552
01:44:18.109 --> 01:44:21.829
It's beyond the logical, not that it's illogical, because there's
1553
01:44:21.869 --> 01:44:25.189
a similitude between.
1554
01:44:25.289 --> 01:44:29.050
Logic and forms and the divine logo. Mm-hmm. Right?
1555
01:44:29.369 --> 01:44:29.770
Exactly.
1556
01:44:29.800 --> 01:44:30.840
They're not isomorphic, though.
1557
01:44:31.279 --> 01:44:31.500
Yes.
1558
01:44:31.960 --> 01:44:34.760
They're not identical. Anyways, I hope that helps.
1559
01:44:34.859 --> 01:44:37.739
No, that was a great point. Yeah, at first I
1560
01:44:37.779 --> 01:44:39.680
wasn't sure where we were going, but then I understand, yeah, no,
1561
01:44:39.699 --> 01:44:43.310
that makes perfect sense as to why. I mean, because
1562
01:44:43.329 --> 01:44:46.710
in the Christian paradigm, God is not identical to logic, right?
1563
01:44:46.750 --> 01:44:48.630
That would be like a platonic type of view.
1564
01:44:50.649 --> 01:44:55.079
Yeah, I think it's also kind of paradigm shifting when
1565
01:44:55.140 --> 01:45:00.300
my entire understanding of Christianity comes from, you know, 12 years.
1566
01:45:00.220 --> 01:45:01.039
Of Catholic school.
1567
01:45:01.279 --> 01:45:03.420
I know, I was a Thomist for a long time,
1568
01:45:03.460 --> 01:45:03.800
I get it.
1569
01:45:04.079 --> 01:45:06.319
Yeah, the FDA went to Thomist University.
1570
01:45:11.109 --> 01:45:17.149
Yeah, no, it's interesting dealing with Christian worldviews that aren't Catholic,
1571
01:45:17.170 --> 01:45:20.449
because they really do kind of have a hegemony on
1572
01:45:20.949 --> 01:45:23.770
Christian thought, even because most Protestants.
1573
01:45:25.079 --> 01:45:27.739
Yeah, a lot of them default to Thomism, yeah.
1574
01:45:29.760 --> 01:45:31.760
So, anyway, well, I appreciate that.
1575
01:45:31.779 --> 01:45:36.920
Thank you. Great questions. Appreciate those. Again, yet another civil Thomist.
1576
01:45:37.000 --> 01:45:39.859
I love it when the civil Thomists come in. Guys, remember...
1577
01:45:40.810 --> 01:45:45.720
Father Hears is putting on a apologetic summit conference the
1578
01:45:46.020 --> 01:45:48.520
Gathering of the Orthodox Apologists.
1579
01:45:49.060 --> 01:45:53.560
The largest conference ever guys do the Father Peter Hears
1580
01:45:53.659 --> 01:45:55.979
impersonation I gotta figure out if Jay has a better
1581
01:45:56.020 --> 01:45:57.319
Father Peter Hears or.
1582
01:45:57.260 --> 01:46:01.260
Me Jay are you coming to the conference what are
1583
01:46:01.300 --> 01:46:05.659
you doing I don't know are you coming it's pretty
1584
01:46:05.680 --> 01:46:07.960
good do you want to do yours.
1585
01:46:10.229 --> 01:46:11.970
It's the largest conference ever.
1586
01:46:12.829 --> 01:46:13.229
Guys.
1587
01:46:13.850 --> 01:46:18.380
Guys. Are we doing this? What's going on? Conference.
1588
01:46:18.420 --> 01:46:19.960
Do you want the Orthodox Fornima or not?
1589
01:46:20.420 --> 01:46:21.159
Fornima.
1590
01:46:21.659 --> 01:46:22.279
This is what the.
1591
01:46:22.260 --> 01:46:25.159
Father and the Holy Elder talk about. Guys, it's not Orthodox.
1592
01:46:25.279 --> 01:46:27.140
This is not of the Fathers.
1593
01:46:28.039 --> 01:46:30.100
It's not of the Fathers.
1594
01:46:30.270 --> 01:46:34.149
All right. I'm just being silly. I like Father Peter.
1595
01:46:34.430 --> 01:46:35.329
We love Father Peter.
1596
01:46:35.350 --> 01:46:38.350
Yeah. Here is the link if you guys want to get.
1597
01:46:38.369 --> 01:46:41.239
Father Peter is messaging me today and said, to remind
1598
01:46:41.279 --> 01:46:44.010
everybody that there's only 50 seats left. Uh, it will
1599
01:46:44.020 --> 01:46:48.510
max out at around 200 or so. And he said,
1600
01:46:48.529 --> 01:46:50.430
they've already sold, I think most of them. So there
1601
01:46:50.449 --> 01:46:52.430
might only be 50, 40, 50 left. If you do
1602
01:46:52.449 --> 01:46:58.189
want to go, there is the tickets. And I didn't realize,
1603
01:46:58.210 --> 01:46:59.930
I thought it was just, I was like, I saw
1604
01:46:59.949 --> 01:47:02.710
this poster and I was like, uh, I'm the only
1605
01:47:02.770 --> 01:47:04.869
lay person on here. I was like, this may be,
1606
01:47:05.250 --> 01:47:06.569
I told him, I was like, if you, if you
1607
01:47:06.590 --> 01:47:09.550
want this to be a clergy conference, you know, I,
1608
01:47:09.569 --> 01:47:11.989
my feelings won't be hurt. But I didn't realize it's
1609
01:47:12.100 --> 01:47:20.140
also Cleve, Luigi, Alex Soren. Who else is going to
1610
01:47:20.159 --> 01:47:21.680
be here? I forget who else is coming. So it
1611
01:47:21.699 --> 01:47:25.659
turns out it's actually all of the... Buck Johnson will
1612
01:47:25.699 --> 01:47:29.420
be there. Reader Paul Trinka will be there.
1613
01:47:29.439 --> 01:47:35.229
Isn't that cool? Reader Paul Trinka. And he's one of
1614
01:47:35.250 --> 01:47:37.069
my students at Jordanville.
1615
01:47:37.350 --> 01:47:38.670
No, I didn't know he was your student. Yeah.
1616
01:47:39.500 --> 01:47:42.739
Yeah, really, really excited to finally meet him in person.
1617
01:47:43.880 --> 01:47:47.300
Neil will be there discussing the update on the movie
1618
01:47:47.359 --> 01:47:52.159
that was originally, as you guys saw, remember the, so
1619
01:47:52.180 --> 01:47:54.600
originally Scooter was going to shoot this film and they
1620
01:47:54.619 --> 01:47:57.029
were going to, they had the clip with Tucker talking
1621
01:47:57.069 --> 01:48:00.449
about his demonic experience. And that was like the first
1622
01:48:00.470 --> 01:48:03.810
few minutes of this documentary that's being made. And then
1623
01:48:03.819 --> 01:48:07.189
there was some production issues. And so it passed from Scooter,
1624
01:48:07.250 --> 01:48:11.149
who is busy with other Tucker projects. Now Neil is
1625
01:48:11.189 --> 01:48:15.710
going to produce the film called Christianities. And so Neil
1626
01:48:15.750 --> 01:48:17.390
is going to give us an update on that. And
1627
01:48:17.789 --> 01:48:21.640
I'm actually uh, just part of the documentary. One of
1628
01:48:21.680 --> 01:48:24.920
the sections is kind of doing an interview. Uh, so
1629
01:48:24.960 --> 01:48:26.739
Neil has taken over that project. He's going to give
1630
01:48:26.760 --> 01:48:28.539
an update there and Neil will be at the conference
1631
01:48:28.579 --> 01:48:30.399
as well. So it is still going forward just to
1632
01:48:30.420 --> 01:48:32.729
let people know, but I was trying to say there's
1633
01:48:32.739 --> 01:48:38.189
some other people too. Um, I thought there was one more.
1634
01:48:38.329 --> 01:48:39.949
I don't want to miss somebody because I don't want
1635
01:48:39.970 --> 01:48:42.010
to hurt anybody's feelings like I'm leaving them out on
1636
01:48:42.050 --> 01:48:43.109
purpose or whatever.
1637
01:48:44.590 --> 01:48:44.770
Oh, Dr.
1638
01:48:44.789 --> 01:48:47.170
David Patrick Carey. Yes, I knew there was somebody else.
1639
01:48:47.270 --> 01:48:50.550
So DPH will be there. Luigi will be there. Alex
1640
01:48:50.569 --> 01:48:55.800
Warren will be there. They are doing a roundtable discussion.
1641
01:48:57.199 --> 01:48:59.039
And then Buck Johnson will be there, a buddy of
1642
01:48:59.180 --> 01:49:01.619
Buck Johnson. So shout out to Buck. We saw him
1643
01:49:01.659 --> 01:49:06.680
at Ludwell and had a good time there with them. So,
1644
01:49:06.760 --> 01:49:10.659
get your tickets for that. Also, let me play the...
1645
01:49:10.260 --> 01:49:13.960
I hope this doesn't have copyrighted music. Let me see
1646
01:49:13.979 --> 01:49:18.100
if it does. Let me play those.
1647
01:49:19.960 --> 01:49:25.210
Here where Nero rules today, Christ shall rule forever!
1648
01:49:33.510 --> 01:49:37.149
From the outset, the disciples of the God-man were exhorted
1649
01:49:37.210 --> 01:49:40.350
to always be ready to give a defense to everyone
1650
01:49:40.390 --> 01:49:42.510
who asks you a reason for the hope that is
1651
01:49:42.590 --> 01:49:45.550
in you. And the eyewitnesses of the word and the
1652
01:49:45.609 --> 01:49:49.970
subsequent apologists have forever fulfilled this call, boldly proclaiming the
1653
01:49:50.029 --> 01:49:54.670
truth to a hostile world. As countless souls flee before
1654
01:49:54.689 --> 01:49:57.850
the flood of sin into the ark of salvation, there
1655
01:49:57.909 --> 01:50:02.329
is need to prayerfully cultivate a unified apologia, firmly rooted
1656
01:50:02.369 --> 01:50:03.750
in the patristic fronium.
1657
01:50:04.109 --> 01:50:06.229
To learn to lay hold of the way.
1658
01:50:07.170 --> 01:50:10.359
Before the face of Antichrist, we Christians of the 8th
1659
01:50:10.420 --> 01:50:14.380
millennium must stand and confess in Christ before men that
1660
01:50:14.479 --> 01:50:18.560
He then confess us before His Father, calling all to
1661
01:50:18.579 --> 01:50:22.789
the faith and to the Church, which is the same yesterday, today,
1662
01:50:23.430 --> 01:50:28.550
and forever. This December, join faithful from across America, coming
1663
01:50:28.590 --> 01:50:31.630
together to be inspired and instructed in the way of
1664
01:50:31.729 --> 01:50:35.880
Christian Apology. with a blessing and participation from His Eminence
1665
01:50:36.100 --> 01:50:40.659
Metropolitan Nikolai, esteemed clergy and lay apologists, who are firmly
1666
01:50:40.720 --> 01:50:44.020
rooted in the patristic teaching, will guide us in understanding
1667
01:50:44.060 --> 01:50:48.590
the Orthodox way of apologia. Near St. Anthony's Monastery in
1668
01:50:48.600 --> 01:50:52.310
the tranquility of the Sonora Desert, celebrating the Feast of St.
1669
01:50:52.350 --> 01:50:56.250
Cleopas of Siastria in English for the first time, all
1670
01:50:56.289 --> 01:50:59.909
in attendance will have an opportunity to be edified, shaped,
1671
01:51:00.210 --> 01:51:05.829
and spiritually energized. As iron sharpens iron. Join us this
1672
01:51:05.890 --> 01:51:10.069
December in the Arizona sunshine for an unforgettable and historic
1673
01:51:10.130 --> 01:51:14.869
apologetic summit. December 3rd through 5th, Florence, Arizona.
1674
01:51:15.409 --> 01:51:16.409
Now more than.
1675
01:51:16.399 --> 01:51:18.479
Ever, we are called to give a defense of the
1676
01:51:18.539 --> 01:51:21.140
faith once delivered. We all need to learn what it
1677
01:51:21.220 --> 01:51:24.579
means to be truly prepared to give an answer to
1678
01:51:24.680 --> 01:51:26.560
every man that asks it.
1679
01:51:30.989 --> 01:51:35.699
Also, I'm supposed to tell you guys again that we
1680
01:51:35.739 --> 01:51:37.859
have the upcoming David Wood debate. It's going to be
1681
01:51:38.119 --> 01:51:40.439
really intense. Shout out to Michael Garten, by the way,
1682
01:51:40.539 --> 01:51:45.569
for a lot of the insightful information and lectures that
1683
01:51:45.609 --> 01:51:50.970
he's shared with me. And this is the upcoming Orlando event,
1684
01:51:51.189 --> 01:51:53.810
October 24, 25. I'll give you guys the link right here.
1685
01:51:54.390 --> 01:51:58.720
Two weeks after learning about orthodoxy's existence, he's ready to debate.
1686
01:51:59.449 --> 01:52:03.989
Three days after I said I'm done debating retorts. That's
1687
01:52:04.029 --> 01:52:07.159
going to be a no-go on the retirement day because
1688
01:52:07.220 --> 01:52:38.949
we have quite a bit of unfinished business. And let
1689
01:52:38.970 --> 01:52:56.880
me give you guys the link for that. That is
1690
01:52:57.739 --> 01:53:01.060
October 24, 25 in Orlando. By the way, I have
1691
01:53:01.079 --> 01:53:06.159
three debates there. So two with David Wood. One with
1692
01:53:06.199 --> 01:53:09.619
Javad Hashmi, the liberal Muslim. I've never debated a liberal Muslim,
1693
01:53:09.640 --> 01:53:13.399
so I don't know what that's going to be like. Also,
1694
01:53:13.510 --> 01:53:16.689
Alex Sorin will be there. And then all of your usuals,
1695
01:53:16.770 --> 01:53:20.069
the sort of... Oh, by the way, Nick, Fearless Truth,
1696
01:53:20.130 --> 01:53:30.409
is debating Gnostic Informant. AP will be debating... And then,
1697
01:53:30.590 --> 01:53:35.199
who is Alex? Alex is debating Andrew... I'm not sure.
1698
01:53:35.359 --> 01:53:37.180
I think he's probably a Protestant guy. I'm not sure
1699
01:53:37.199 --> 01:53:41.319
who that is. Anyway, so get your tickets to that.
1700
01:53:41.340 --> 01:53:46.159
I think that's... Is that all the promos? By the way,
1701
01:53:46.189 --> 01:53:49.069
we're going to be doing an event in March at
1702
01:53:49.090 --> 01:53:50.930
a comedy club. I've been wanting to do a live
1703
01:53:51.050 --> 01:53:54.170
comedy podcast, and one of the comedy clubs in Florida
1704
01:53:54.210 --> 01:53:57.029
reached out to me. Thank God. I was wanting to
1705
01:53:57.069 --> 01:53:58.590
do this, and they just reached out and said, hey,
1706
01:53:59.170 --> 01:54:01.069
we want you in March to come to the comedy club.
1707
01:54:01.750 --> 01:54:05.270
We're going to do a live... podcast, which for me
1708
01:54:05.289 --> 01:54:09.260
is probably the best setup. My standup is not sufficiently
1709
01:54:09.300 --> 01:54:12.680
advanced enough to really to carry a whole show per se,
1710
01:54:12.739 --> 01:54:16.600
but we know the podcasting style is we are, we
1711
01:54:16.640 --> 01:54:18.960
are hyper advanced in that. We have like a PhD
1712
01:54:19.000 --> 01:54:24.420
now in live streaming from, um, the universal life church,
1713
01:54:24.899 --> 01:54:26.960
which I printed out. I have that PhD. If you
1714
01:54:26.979 --> 01:54:29.430
guys want to check it out, it's not a diploma mill.
1715
01:54:29.479 --> 01:54:34.869
It's 100% legit. I have a PhD in live streaming. Okay,
1716
01:54:35.350 --> 01:54:36.710
we're going to move on a little bit. We've got
1717
01:54:36.750 --> 01:54:41.859
the next debate, which was Cooley's debate with Dean Withering Away.
1718
01:54:41.880 --> 01:54:44.340
We'll take a couple more calls before we do that.
1719
01:54:44.399 --> 01:54:50.949
We was. What's up, dog? We was. What's up, man?
1720
01:54:53.289 --> 01:54:54.210
Hey, Jake. Hey, FTA.
1721
01:54:54.229 --> 01:54:54.510
Greetings.
1722
01:54:55.909 --> 01:54:56.260
Greetings.
1723
01:54:58.560 --> 01:55:02.430
I just had a follow-up question from that Thomist earlier
1724
01:55:02.510 --> 01:55:09.569
about tag. I'm coming from like a Protestant to catechumen
1725
01:55:09.630 --> 01:55:10.949
convert background now.
1726
01:55:11.050 --> 01:55:11.409
But.
1727
01:55:13.710 --> 01:55:17.609
Could you say that like that final kind of gap
1728
01:55:17.909 --> 01:55:21.489
when they go, hey, tag sounds really interesting. You know,
1729
01:55:21.510 --> 01:55:24.270
I could see that it's being that God, but then
1730
01:55:24.289 --> 01:55:29.050
that leap to orthodoxy, like, Is that leap the difference
1731
01:55:29.489 --> 01:55:34.609
between like divine revelation and philosophizing?
1732
01:55:34.810 --> 01:55:35.010
Yes.
1733
01:55:35.029 --> 01:55:38.279
I mean, I don't know if I want to say leap,
1734
01:55:38.359 --> 01:55:43.720
but I mean, the argument just simply is that philosophy
1735
01:55:43.779 --> 01:55:47.260
is a dead end. Like philosophy as a self-evident secular
1736
01:55:47.359 --> 01:55:50.869
system building exercise is futile. And the whole course of
1737
01:55:50.909 --> 01:55:54.250
philosophy up to modernity, I would argue is demonstrates that
1738
01:55:54.289 --> 01:55:56.909
it's a futile exercise so what then where do we
1739
01:55:56.949 --> 01:55:58.770
go do we just give up logic and be like
1740
01:55:58.890 --> 01:56:02.829
quine and become you know into go into psychologism or
1741
01:56:03.949 --> 01:56:07.399
no it points us to the idea that man's secular
1742
01:56:07.600 --> 01:56:10.159
autonomous system building was always doomed to fail like tower
1743
01:56:10.180 --> 01:56:14.760
of babel so the answer is return to god god
1744
01:56:14.779 --> 01:56:17.979
then is the ground of the the philosophical elements of
1745
01:56:18.020 --> 01:56:18.840
the worldview.
1746
01:56:20.010 --> 01:56:21.810
And is it kind of fair to say that like
1747
01:56:21.850 --> 01:56:25.350
philosophy is kind of like man's attempt to God and
1748
01:56:25.670 --> 01:56:27.229
revelation is like God's?
1749
01:56:28.149 --> 01:56:29.800
You can say that. I mean, yeah.
1750
01:56:31.319 --> 01:56:37.520
And we see in philosophy too, you know, we're not fideists.
1751
01:56:37.560 --> 01:56:39.800
Like there is a disciplined.
1752
01:56:40.850 --> 01:56:46.550
that thinks critically and deeply about the fundamental questions about
1753
01:56:46.609 --> 01:56:49.909
reality and distinguishes good arguments from bad arguments. And by
1754
01:56:49.989 --> 01:56:54.890
reading the philosophical authors of Western civilization.
1755
01:56:55.310 --> 01:56:56.390
There's value in that.
1756
01:56:57.909 --> 01:57:02.319
What Jay's saying about philosophy, speculative on a.
1757
01:57:02.439 --> 01:57:05.279
System building, which I subscribe.
1758
01:57:04.579 --> 01:57:09.909
To as a metaphysical epistemic, that we don't do, but
1759
01:57:09.970 --> 01:57:11.050
like there's real value.
1760
01:57:11.069 --> 01:57:15.529
I mean, it really helps you as a, as a thinker.
1761
01:57:16.470 --> 01:57:19.880
And that's why so many of the fathers were trained
1762
01:57:19.920 --> 01:57:20.539
in philosophy.
1763
01:57:21.800 --> 01:57:22.000
Yeah.
1764
01:57:22.079 --> 01:57:22.239
Yeah.
1765
01:57:22.279 --> 01:57:24.819
That's a great, great point. Cause I didn't want to
1766
01:57:24.840 --> 01:57:27.319
give the impression, like I'm saying like, Oh, don't, don't
1767
01:57:27.340 --> 01:57:30.510
read any philosophy. Like I'm not, no, it's not feedism
1768
01:57:30.520 --> 01:57:33.430
at all. Feedism is kind of silly. Honestly. It's like,
1769
01:57:33.510 --> 01:57:36.399
if feedism is true, then, there's no reason why we,
1770
01:57:36.520 --> 01:57:38.539
you know, we can tell, we can't tell Mormons that,
1771
01:57:38.899 --> 01:57:41.390
you know, we can't tell people not to be a Mormon.
1772
01:57:41.430 --> 01:57:43.310
Cause it's like, well, if I'm going to make an
1773
01:57:43.390 --> 01:57:46.050
irrational leap of faith, like why would I not irrationally
1774
01:57:46.109 --> 01:57:49.229
leap into whatever the burning bosom is at them? Like, no,
1775
01:57:49.289 --> 01:57:54.210
it's not a fetus. And we're saying that secular man
1776
01:57:54.310 --> 01:57:58.250
centered philosophy always ends up in a dead end. And
1777
01:57:58.869 --> 01:58:03.510
that's why the dead end points us outside of those
1778
01:58:03.590 --> 01:58:06.970
types of systems to um, Christ.
1779
01:58:07.930 --> 01:58:10.229
And think about St. Paul says it. Yeah.
1780
01:58:10.810 --> 01:58:15.850
Beware of vain philosophy built on the traditions of men.
1781
01:58:15.869 --> 01:58:20.239
That it's like he's saying, so, you know, I'm sure St.
1782
01:58:20.279 --> 01:58:20.899
Paul, I mean, St.
1783
01:58:20.920 --> 01:58:23.960
Paul's state philosophy. That's like, he's not saying don't read
1784
01:58:24.000 --> 01:58:24.270
for us.
1785
01:58:24.340 --> 01:58:26.380
He's saying, um, Like Hegel, right?
1786
01:58:26.399 --> 01:58:30.100
Don't subscribe to, yeah, and system build, because this is
1787
01:58:30.140 --> 01:58:32.439
all built on, basically, what is he saying?
1788
01:58:32.840 --> 01:58:36.979
This is autonomous system building, and our way of, he's
1789
01:58:37.039 --> 01:58:39.060
calling us to a new way of life, where it's like,
1790
01:58:39.100 --> 01:58:39.659
we don't do that.
1791
01:58:40.659 --> 01:58:43.159
Yeah. Can I ask as well, like.
1792
01:58:49.899 --> 01:58:53.989
You cut out, man. Can't hear you. All right, guys,
1793
01:58:54.010 --> 01:58:56.170
if you want to support the stream, I'll also help
1794
01:58:56.270 --> 01:59:00.000
FDA out. Super Chats-wise, you can support the stream through
1795
01:59:00.020 --> 01:59:04.800
the Super Chats here. Remember, in March, again, I haven't
1796
01:59:04.819 --> 01:59:06.960
even created the tickets yet for the comedy event, but
1797
01:59:06.979 --> 01:59:13.229
we'll be doing an event live in, what was it, Pensacola?
1798
01:59:13.270 --> 01:59:16.229
I think the comedy club is in Pensacola. I'll have
1799
01:59:16.270 --> 01:59:17.409
to look it up.
1800
01:59:17.550 --> 01:59:21.869
Chris Lane is calling in right now. Did you see this? Hey,
1801
01:59:21.949 --> 01:59:23.989
what's his thing called again? C.
1802
01:59:24.090 --> 01:59:24.970
Calling in, where?
1803
01:59:25.869 --> 01:59:26.270
I'm joking.
1804
01:59:26.300 --> 01:59:29.100
I was just messing with you.
1805
01:59:29.260 --> 01:59:30.319
CTMU. Yeah.
1806
01:59:30.859 --> 01:59:33.539
What if we actually troll him and be like, actually,
1807
01:59:33.600 --> 01:59:37.300
we used that theory to show that you're not the
1808
01:59:37.380 --> 01:59:39.380
highest IQ person in the world?
1809
01:59:39.699 --> 01:59:40.340
What do you think?
1810
01:59:40.640 --> 01:59:42.239
Well, a lot of the comments were saying that, but
1811
01:59:42.579 --> 01:59:45.010
I don't want to get into, like, a personal... I know,
1812
01:59:45.069 --> 01:59:47.130
I'm just joking. I mean, that dude would beat my ass.
1813
01:59:47.149 --> 01:59:51.279
That dude's like a, you know, buff, you know, that
1814
01:59:51.319 --> 01:59:55.460
he was a bouncer so he's literally like uh patrick
1815
01:59:55.479 --> 02:00:00.270
swayze and if you remember patrick swayze in the roadhouse
1816
02:00:01.050 --> 02:00:03.670
because remember he's like a philosophy guy he got his
1817
02:00:03.689 --> 02:00:05.710
like his phd in philosophy at nyu and then he
1818
02:00:05.750 --> 02:00:09.670
drops out to become a bouncer that's literally like a
1819
02:00:09.710 --> 02:00:15.989
chris yeah he's literally uh i'm trying to remember patrick
1820
02:00:16.010 --> 02:00:20.149
swayze's name and and uh in that movie. I can't
1821
02:00:20.170 --> 02:00:24.270
think of it, but you get what I'm saying. So he,
1822
02:00:24.649 --> 02:00:26.529
he could do the rip my throat out move, right?
1823
02:00:26.550 --> 02:00:30.560
Chris Lange could like do the one, one, because remember
1824
02:00:30.640 --> 02:00:32.460
Patrick Swayze rips that dude's throat out.
1825
02:00:32.520 --> 02:00:34.399
Watch me rip.
1826
02:00:34.300 --> 02:00:37.319
Your throat out. It's like, Oh, you want to diss CTMU?
1827
02:00:37.359 --> 02:00:42.350
How about I just remove your esophagus with my hand? Um, yeah. Uh,
1828
02:00:42.449 --> 02:00:44.289
what's his name in roadhouse? I forget his name.
1829
02:00:44.569 --> 02:00:44.710
Yeah.
1830
02:00:44.729 --> 02:00:47.659
It's a, it's a great eighties movie. Silly Dalton. Yeah.
1831
02:00:47.720 --> 02:00:51.680
Chris Langan is basically Dalton from, um, so I don't
1832
02:00:51.699 --> 02:00:54.180
want to make fun of Chris Langan too much, get
1833
02:00:54.199 --> 02:00:55.880
beat up. So let's listen to a little bit of, uh,
1834
02:00:56.539 --> 02:01:01.930
Cooley's demolishing of this goober Dean Withers for the, the
1835
02:01:01.979 --> 02:01:05.069
new soy white atheist man.
1836
02:01:05.430 --> 02:01:08.869
Duction predication, all of these things that work in uniformity
1837
02:01:09.050 --> 02:01:11.850
is these right. Preconditions to having knowledge.
1838
02:01:12.710 --> 02:01:14.189
Those would just be examples of how to reason.
1839
02:01:14.829 --> 02:01:15.010
Yeah.
1840
02:01:15.029 --> 02:01:18.409
So that's real quick with all of the, so Cooley
1841
02:01:18.470 --> 02:01:22.609
begins right off with preconditions. And I don't think Dean
1842
02:01:22.630 --> 02:01:25.760
really knows what he's talking about. And Dean's response is
1843
02:01:25.899 --> 02:01:31.920
those are just examples of reasoning. Well, but how do
1844
02:01:31.939 --> 02:01:36.000
we know that they're the case just because we use them, right? This,
1845
02:01:36.039 --> 02:01:39.020
this came up with Stefan too, right? Cause at one
1846
02:01:39.060 --> 02:01:42.720
point I was like, well, we can use error. So
1847
02:01:42.779 --> 02:01:44.760
just because we use something doesn't mean it is the
1848
02:01:44.779 --> 02:01:47.119
case or it is true or it exists. I mean,
1849
02:01:47.199 --> 02:01:49.960
I could use Lord of the Rings for all kinds
1850
02:01:50.020 --> 02:01:54.119
of purposes. I mean, fricking, I don't know who makes
1851
02:01:54.539 --> 02:01:57.399
Warner brothers, whoever the produces Lord of the Rings. Like, like,
1852
02:01:58.050 --> 02:01:59.890
I mean, they used it to make a lot of money.
1853
02:01:59.899 --> 02:02:00.869
It doesn't mean it's true.
1854
02:02:00.909 --> 02:02:01.090
Right.
1855
02:02:01.310 --> 02:02:04.609
Well, you know, and it kind of has to do with, uh,
1856
02:02:04.710 --> 02:02:12.710
it's very similar to, um, the indeterminacy, uh, no, sorry,
1857
02:02:12.729 --> 02:02:16.619
the underdetermination of data is that one thing Quine and
1858
02:02:16.640 --> 02:02:19.960
Duheim are pointing out is that there are these different
1859
02:02:20.020 --> 02:02:24.979
scientific paradigms that all contradict each other that we all use.
1860
02:02:25.079 --> 02:02:32.350
In fact, we still use for navigation the Ptolemaic geocentric.
1861
02:02:34.529 --> 02:02:37.050
But that's not enough. The data is, right, the theory
1862
02:02:37.069 --> 02:02:40.869
is underdetermined by that. Just because you use it doesn't
1863
02:02:40.909 --> 02:02:44.489
mean that it's actually true or justified. Yeah, exactly. Because
1864
02:02:44.510 --> 02:02:46.890
we could create another one that's, like, just as useful.
1865
02:02:48.390 --> 02:02:49.979
Yeah, I think I said this stuff on, like, I
1866
02:02:49.989 --> 02:02:55.500
might use a unicorn for something, but, again, and it, like,
1867
02:02:55.539 --> 02:03:00.300
maybe I use it to create, well, again, like, Lord
1868
02:03:00.319 --> 02:03:02.399
of the Rings. Like, you can use fake stories.
1869
02:03:02.619 --> 02:03:04.069
And what about drug users?
1870
02:03:04.289 --> 02:03:07.029
They use drugs. Yeah, drug users use drugs to all
1871
02:03:07.069 --> 02:03:08.409
kinds of purposes, right?
1872
02:03:08.470 --> 02:03:08.609
So.
1873
02:03:09.560 --> 02:03:11.260
These be preconditions of knowledge.
1874
02:03:11.989 --> 02:03:14.699
Your faculties of reason would concern justification.
1875
02:03:15.279 --> 02:03:17.100
Okay, so they are all preconditions of knowledge.
1876
02:03:17.340 --> 02:03:20.100
So having faculties is justification?
1877
02:03:21.220 --> 02:03:21.399
No.
1878
02:03:22.220 --> 02:03:24.079
That's the thing in question. How do we know we
1879
02:03:24.119 --> 02:03:26.340
have these faculties? And even if we do, how do
1880
02:03:26.359 --> 02:03:28.220
we know we're using them in the right way? By
1881
02:03:28.260 --> 02:03:28.920
the way, in.
1882
02:03:28.880 --> 02:03:33.880
Epistemology, this is a distinction between faculty use and justictory use.
1883
02:03:33.899 --> 02:03:34.779
Yeah, exactly. Great point.
1884
02:03:35.609 --> 02:03:38.090
They're preconditions of justification, which could be fulfilled without a God.
1885
02:03:38.189 --> 02:03:40.109
Okay, got it. So real quick, under your atheist.
1886
02:03:40.130 --> 02:03:42.670
By the way, it sounds like he's reading off of something,
1887
02:03:42.810 --> 02:03:45.380
because I don't think this dude knows enough philosophy to
1888
02:03:45.500 --> 02:03:47.420
actually spell this stuff out.
1889
02:03:47.659 --> 02:03:48.979
With no God, right?
1890
02:03:49.779 --> 02:03:52.760
How do you give an account for these transcendental categories
1891
02:03:52.779 --> 02:03:56.479
like logic, deduction, predication, induction, the self, all of these
1892
02:03:56.600 --> 02:04:01.630
things that presuppose knowledge? What's your justification for these preconditions
1893
02:04:01.670 --> 02:04:02.810
to knowledge for us to have it?
1894
02:04:03.340 --> 02:04:06.739
I like that Cooley's going this route, but what we're learning,
1895
02:04:07.510 --> 02:04:10.189
which we should have known, is basically no one in
1896
02:04:10.210 --> 02:04:14.270
the world, except for philosophy nerds, even has a clue
1897
02:04:14.630 --> 02:04:18.890
what justification means in the philosophical sense. After the Stefan debate,
1898
02:04:18.909 --> 02:04:22.600
I realized they actually think that it's like a colloquial
1899
02:04:22.640 --> 02:04:24.960
sense of, how do you justify yourself for doing this?
1900
02:04:25.380 --> 02:04:28.560
And then they tell a story. Well, here's my story.
1901
02:04:29.659 --> 02:04:29.970
No, no, no.
1902
02:04:30.579 --> 02:04:34.359
What's the epistemic justification in your worldview for that being
1903
02:04:34.399 --> 02:04:38.180
the case? It's an internal critique asking them on their
1904
02:04:38.279 --> 02:04:41.539
own lines of reasoning to give us good reasons for
1905
02:04:41.579 --> 02:04:45.970
why we should believe their premises and the things they're using.
1906
02:04:46.659 --> 02:04:49.149
But everybody just sort of thinks in this sort of
1907
02:04:49.189 --> 02:04:52.989
normie sense like, oh, you mean like what's my story
1908
02:04:53.029 --> 02:04:57.310
of how we got to having concepts in the fossil record?
1909
02:04:57.770 --> 02:04:59.630
That was one of the craziest things I've ever heard
1910
02:04:59.649 --> 02:05:01.989
anybody say When Stefan was like, wow, we have the
1911
02:05:02.010 --> 02:05:04.569
fossil record. And I'm like, where are concepts in the
1912
02:05:04.609 --> 02:05:06.739
fossil record? And then I realized, because he talked about
1913
02:05:06.800 --> 02:05:10.920
childhood psychology, he means at some point an infant like
1914
02:05:11.600 --> 02:05:15.180
the so-called fossil record has the Geico cavemen beginning at
1915
02:05:15.239 --> 02:05:19.210
some point to like reason. No, no, that's not the question.
1916
02:05:19.229 --> 02:05:21.729
Because you don't see that in the fossil record. That's
1917
02:05:21.750 --> 02:05:24.109
an interpretation of this crazy story.
1918
02:05:25.369 --> 02:05:27.529
Yeah, of course. So I think that you're really blundering
1919
02:05:27.710 --> 02:05:28.010
right now.
1920
02:05:28.189 --> 02:05:28.850
No, don't blundering.
1921
02:05:28.869 --> 02:05:31.449
Don't obfuscate. Go ahead and give me, answer the question.
1922
02:05:31.510 --> 02:05:32.810
Don't do anything else. Answer the question.
1923
02:05:33.449 --> 02:05:36.020
The question would presuppose that deduction has an ontological status.
1924
02:05:36.100 --> 02:05:38.159
What's the argument that deduction has an ontological status?
1925
02:05:39.500 --> 02:05:43.439
Well, he doesn't even have to say that, right? Cooley
1926
02:05:43.479 --> 02:05:47.210
doesn't even have to say that these things have an
1927
02:05:47.270 --> 02:05:50.170
ontological status. He could do like FDA was talking about,
1928
02:05:50.189 --> 02:05:53.670
the metaphysical quietism approach and say, Well, maybe they don't
1929
02:05:53.689 --> 02:05:56.449
have any ontological status, but what is your account of
1930
02:05:56.510 --> 02:05:59.930
being able to use them in your atheist paradigm?
1931
02:06:00.069 --> 02:06:03.229
I have a question. I can hear it in his voice.
1932
02:06:04.010 --> 02:06:07.020
Do all these Dean Wither, Destiny type, are they all
1933
02:06:07.260 --> 02:06:07.899
on Adderall?
1934
02:06:08.720 --> 02:06:10.920
Probably. Although I do have this sped up a little
1935
02:06:10.939 --> 02:06:14.159
bit because I didn't want to. But, well, I mean,
1936
02:06:14.420 --> 02:06:17.319
they all talk really fast. And, yeah, they're all pretty
1937
02:06:17.340 --> 02:06:19.850
much all, I mean, like, erudite and these people like
1938
02:06:19.869 --> 02:06:21.989
they're all kind of on something so.
1939
02:06:21.890 --> 02:06:26.979
I mean here's the thing too just statistically uh you.
1940
02:06:27.239 --> 02:06:30.199
Know especially for dean weather's age group i mean i
1941
02:06:30.220 --> 02:06:32.340
started finding out how many people are actually on adderall
1942
02:06:32.380 --> 02:06:35.979
that like that's pretty good odds that probably you know
1943
02:06:36.149 --> 02:06:38.569
even if we didn't have those kinds of signs of
1944
02:06:39.130 --> 02:06:42.449
them looking like it statistically like there'd be good odds
1945
02:06:42.529 --> 02:06:43.489
that they probably.
1946
02:06:43.350 --> 02:06:46.229
Are Well, I could tell you instead of taking some
1947
02:06:46.329 --> 02:06:50.300
dumb pharmaceutical, just take NAD. That'll work. I take it
1948
02:06:50.319 --> 02:06:52.220
all the time. So NAD works.
1949
02:06:52.340 --> 02:06:54.399
Does logic have an ontological status?
1950
02:06:55.119 --> 02:06:56.399
Logic does. What's the argument?
1951
02:06:56.420 --> 02:06:59.340
Okay, so in order to have induction and deduction, you
1952
02:06:59.479 --> 02:07:01.369
need logic is what I'm saying.
1953
02:07:01.710 --> 02:07:04.930
So now he says logic does have an ontological status,
1954
02:07:05.729 --> 02:07:08.829
which he was just trying to go the opposite route
1955
02:07:09.329 --> 02:07:11.029
with Cooley. And now he's like, well, it does have
1956
02:07:11.069 --> 02:07:11.869
some ontological status.
1957
02:07:12.189 --> 02:07:14.329
So again, got it, great.
1958
02:07:14.590 --> 02:07:17.729
So logic itself, real quick, logic itself is a, no
1959
02:07:17.750 --> 02:07:19.569
one's dodging, you're not answering my question.
1960
02:07:20.130 --> 02:07:23.590
I asked you, real quick, stop it.
1961
02:07:23.609 --> 02:07:27.079
Dean, no, Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean, you're obfuscating, Dean, you're obfuscating.
1962
02:07:27.100 --> 02:07:27.880
You're obfuscating.
1963
02:07:27.920 --> 02:07:28.479
You're obfuscating.
1964
02:07:28.520 --> 02:07:30.140
I'm not obfuscating, you're obfuscating.
1965
02:07:30.319 --> 02:07:33.579
Fellas, fellas, let's have a little decorum here. Okay, let's
1966
02:07:33.619 --> 02:07:36.810
have a little bit of decorum, fellas. I'm doing my Cooley,
1967
02:07:37.210 --> 02:07:39.789
calling everybody back to decorum.
1968
02:07:39.850 --> 02:07:42.409
You said that, Dean, the precondition to knowledge, you said
1969
02:07:42.449 --> 02:07:43.340
that is logic, right?
1970
02:07:43.560 --> 02:07:43.899
One of them.
1971
02:07:44.739 --> 02:07:46.699
I said that the laws of logic were a precondition.
1972
02:07:46.720 --> 02:07:48.310
Then you asked me what the argument is for trying
1973
02:07:48.329 --> 02:07:48.689
to change it.
1974
02:07:48.689 --> 02:07:52.090
Yes, he affirmed that. And he's obviously wanting to just
1975
02:07:52.109 --> 02:07:54.460
kind of talk past the situation, by the way.
1976
02:07:54.720 --> 02:07:55.979
Dean, the laws of.
1977
02:07:55.979 --> 02:07:57.380
That assumes that deduction has an.
1978
02:07:57.420 --> 02:07:58.300
Dean, stop it.
1979
02:07:58.380 --> 02:07:58.899
What's the argument?