WEBVTT
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I'm Lawrence Green, Director of Effectiveness at the IPA, and you're listening to the Effectiveness Files in partnership with our friends at TrackSuit.
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I'm delighted that this episode finds me sitting opposite Will Butler Adams, managing director of Brompton Bicycle, in their London factory, which manufactures 80,000 bikes a year, no less.
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So we're gonna talk about the business marketing, whether that's been a big factor in the way you built the business out.
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But we always start by asking for a sort of potted career history.
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So you're here as chief executive.
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How did you get here?
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Well, I went to university and studied mechanical engineering and Spanish.
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I had spent a year in South America before going to university, got lost in the jungle, took an expedition back to the jungle when I was at university, made a documentary with that, we nearly all died.
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So when I left university, I thought, well, I'll go work in South America.
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And in the end, I didn't quite get the job I wanted in South America and ended up in Middlesbrough working for ICR, which is a big chemical factory.
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Did that for five years.
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It was actually epic.
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Brilliant people, ludicrous responsibility.
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As a young engineer, I had massive responsibility, and if it went wrong, people would die.
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And it made it fun.
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But then I thought, you know, rest of my life in a chemical plant, not really keen on that.
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And I've always been a greenie at heart.
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But I thought I'd go and do an MBA.
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That's what people do.
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Nearly 30, studying for my GMET, wanted to go to France.
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I was fluent in Spanish, thought I'd pick up French.
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Was visiting London, sat on a bus next to a bloke who went to university with the inventor of a weird folding bike I'd never heard of.
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Got chatting to him, and he said, This friend of mine needs some help.
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I thought, well, why not?
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So went back to Middlesbrough three months later, a few emails, down to London, met the eccentric inventor, and thought, this is an eccentric inventor making a weird product in London.
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Looks like a laugh.
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All the fun people in London, I'll do it for a couple of years and then do my MBA.
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And that was 20, nearly 25 years ago.
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Still haven't done the MBA?
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Well, I have.
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I just did it in a slightly roundabout route.
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In the thick of it.
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I haven't chatted to anyone else who got either lost in the South American jungle or took a team back to make a documentary and then almost died.
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So let's just let's go life experience before we start.
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So I watched David Attenborough programs and I watched Tarzan when I was growing up, as we many of us did.
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Thought Amazon, I want to get deep in the Amazon and learn about it.
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Ended up writing to missionaries, though I'm not very religious.
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Got somewhere with a Catholic and I'm not Catholic mission.
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They ended up running away from the jungle because they got some of them got chopped up.
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So that all went pear-shaped.
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But in the end I thought I'm going to go anyway.
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So I flew into a ketos, aged just 19, with long hair, having been travelling for about five months, and then met a guy, and we tromped off into the Amazon for about six weeks.
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And then I thought I was going to die, said goodbye to my parents, assumed it was all over.
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Obviously, your brain plays tricks with you, came out, bit of an epiphany moment.
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So then I thought, oh, I'm going to make a documentary.
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So went to university, clubbered together some slightly naive people, sent a treatment to Channel 4, got some help from the SAS, and made a documentary.
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But we all nearly copped it.
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Good preparation for having a factory in Greenford, though.
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Oh yeah.
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Well, that's amazing.
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That's a whole separate podcast, isn't it?
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Is that story in the public domain?
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Is that documentary somewhere still or not?
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Yeah, I mean it was televised by Channel 4 and went global.
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Seven Go Mad in Peru if you're really bored.
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Seven Go Mad in Peru.
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Yeah.
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Very good.
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You see, there is a creative streak.
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You may may be a humble engineer, but.
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Well, humble engineers need to be very creative.
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That's how we invent things.
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This idea that you have creatives and maths is the biggest load of tosh I've ever heard.
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And you literally met a stranger on a bus?
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I met a guy who I'd never met before called Tim Guinness.
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Funny enough, that's his picture up there.
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He was the chair of Brompton.
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He went to Cambridge with Andrew the inventor, and we got chatting, and that's how it started.
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And I would have done two years, but for the fact that this weird bike invented by an eccentric legend changed my life.
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And I am not a city man.
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I was brought up sort of in the countryside.
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Cities were big, claustrophobic, scary, you know, fun for a weekend, but not to live in it.
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But then this bike, which no one had, none of my friends had, it really was a pioneer's bike, but it was very cool because it meant I got to know London.
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I had friends who'd been there because I'd obviously been in Middlesbrough.
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They'd been there seven or eight years, and all they'd ever done is get up and go down the same hole in the ground and trundle along in a metal tube spluttered on by a load of other people.
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And I was whizzing along, cutting through back streets, down canals, across parks.
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I was going to nightclubs, folding it up, shoving it in the cloakroom.
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My girlfriend, who now became my wife, she's standing on the rear rack.
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It's two in the morning, zooming back to my flat, her flat.
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This thing was awesome.
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It meant suddenly the city was fun and liberating as opposed to claustrophobic.
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And then I met other customers, and they said to me, This bike's changed my life.
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That's fairly major.
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And you know, so I was given some great advice from a mentor I had when I joined ICI, chat called Andy T, and he said, You'll never know what you want to do.
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But if you ever find yourself doing something you don't want to do, get the hell out.
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And obviously, this is the opposite.
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I found myself doing something that was completely awesome.
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So I never got out.
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I was still here.
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So how big was the company when you joined it?
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1.7 million.
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In terms of revenue?
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Yeah.
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And how many bikes is that?
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Producing about 4,000 bikes.
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Pretty much.
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We were selling in the UK, Germany, and the Netherlands.
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We really didn't have a website.
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Marketing, forget it.
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In many respects, Andrew done all hard work.
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He got through the difficult bit and it taken him forever, and he started in 1975.
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I rocked up in 2002.
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So he worked very hard to get the difficult stuff done.
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I then turned up, picked it up by the scruff of the neck, and said, let's fire this thing up.
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Both engineers, but very different types of engineers.
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So what does firing it up look like?
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Making people know it exists.
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You can have the best thing in the world.
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It could be a service, a product, it could be anything.
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But if no one knows it exists, if they don't know how it might change their life, you're just gonna disappear.
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No one will know you existed, no one will enjoy it, you won't have an impact.
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And there's no point working hard if you don't affect people's lives.
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I mean, we all want to feel we've contributed while we're on our short little journey on planet Earth.
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So there's no point being a genius if no one has the impact of this amazing thing, whatever it might be.
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And is it obvious looking back now that there were sort of chapters in the journey from 4,000 to what was it today?
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70,000?
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80,000, something like that.
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Gone from about 1.7 million to about 125 million is where we are at the minute.
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The first thing I did was Andrew couldn't make enough bikes.
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That doesn't help.
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And that's because he was trying to do everything.
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He was a genius, but also a megalomaniac.
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And so he controlled everything.
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Well, we were bending little bits of wire on a four-stage manual press, and each time you did 500 bits of wire and you bend them in one form, you then take the tooling off, then you set up another tool, then you bend it in another form, and the whole thing took forever.
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And then in the Midlands, there's a you know 350 grand CNC wire bending machine that just goes wiggle-wiggle-wiggle and punk, and everyone's the same.
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This was on a fly press, and if and it had to be a bloke because you needed to have enormous guns.
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And by the time he got to sort of 456, his arms getting tired.
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So guess what?
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The bend wasn't quite the same.
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We chucked half them in the bin.
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So I got busy getting rid of any stuff that wasn't core, and core had magic, core had Brompton DNA, Brompton know-how.
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But if it was just a thing that many people in the world could make, let them get on with it, and we can focus on the really magical stuff like brazing, which is really at the heart of what we do.
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Um, so I got involved in that, and then I wanted more people to know that we existed.
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And luckily for London, it's extremely cosmopolitan, and for us, our bike folds up.
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So when people came and worked in London and they discovered this little bike, when they went home to Japan or whether they went home to Detroit or wherever, they packed their little bike up and take it home.
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And the somebody told somebody who said to somebody, Well, no one's selling that bike.
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Why don't I stick my hand up and I'll sell it?
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So then I started, in some respects, through the fact that our product had sort of self-fertilized in a funny sort of way, but nothing was there to nurture it and look after it.
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I then started taking that seriously and trying to look for distributors in the first instance.
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And a distributor is someone who picks it up from you, FOB, takes it into your country, deals with all the paperwork, invests in the stock, finds the retailers, builds a website, makes sure you've got customer service, you've got the spares and everything else.
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And then we had a nutter who is still with us, he's great, Mr.
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Loro, who decided he wanted to open a shop that only sold Bromptons.
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And we thought, oh, this is nuts.
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We're a niche of a niche of a niche of a niche, it'll never work.
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But he was determined and he wanted to open his shop in Kobe, where the good beef comes from in Japan, and he was only gonna sell Bromptons, and he was gonna call it the Brompton Concert Store, Kobe, whatever it was, it was a mouthful.
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And we were like, oh my god, we can't call it that.
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That's a terrible name.
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What are we gonna call it?
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Because we didn't want to call it Brompton because we felt that was the bike, and we thought the retail bit might screw up, so we'd call it something different.
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So we thought the bike is the bike, but where people meet is at the shop, and the the biggest conglomeration of meeting people in London is the is Clapham Junction.
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So we thought, oh, we'll call it Brompton Junction, that's where people meet.
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So that's what we did, and we had about a week to come up with it, and then we came up with a slightly squiffy logo that if you ditched.
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And then we had the awful Fukushima disaster about 10 days before we were opening the shop.
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I went in and for the store opening, and my lovely Japanese dealer, Mr.
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Laura, was just so honoured that I'd, against all the advice, flew in, to which I felt there was no risk whatsoever.
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And we had a great opening.
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And that was a precursor for us to realise we could actually open a store just selling Bromptons.
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And then we took the next big step, which is where we opened our own store in Covent Garden.
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The centre of London is owned by the King, it's owned by, oh, there are about three of them.
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These they've all they've all sort of wrapped it up.
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Dukes and Yeah, and and they've all wrapped it up.
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So we thought, oh, we can open a little store.
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And uh trotted on.
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What do you do?
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We're Brompton bicycles.
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No, no, I'm sorry, it's not available.
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Well, it looks like it's available.
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I think we can might we might be I'm sorry.
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We're creating our brands.
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No, no, sorry, not possible.
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And we found this everywhere we went.
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We could not get into Central London, they wouldn't let us in because we were like grubby little bikes.
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Eventually, it was classic.
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The guy who was helping us, who was a friend of Lorne's, who was my FD, suddenly rang up and we had a budget of 70 grand a year, was our rent we could afford.
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And he said, Will, Will, there's a shop on Longacre.
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It's come up and it's gone bust.
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So you can buy the business for a quid.
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Buy the chocolate business.
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So we charge around, but you have to make the decision today.
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And it was 90 grand, not 70.
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We didn't have time to get board approval.
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Lawn and I are in there, cool shop, cool location.
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We're like, oh, do we, don't we?
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We walk back, and then we saw this green roundle above the store.
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What's that?
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And there's a bloke in a tailcoat and top hat on a bicycle.
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And it said, from this location, in 1816, Dennis Johnson built and made Britain's first bicycle in this workshop.
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We're like, yippee, we're signing.
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So we signed up, and that was our first store in London.
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So then we got into retail, and at the same time as we started getting into retail, we decided to buy back our distribution.
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So then we took back Japan, we took back Singapore, we took back all of Europe, Spain, Germany, France bit by bit, took back the US, and we bought them back, which is unusual.
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We didn't just take them back, and that was important to us because it meant that our distributors were investing in something they'd get a return on.
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So we couldn't do it all in one go because they had to get the money to be able to buy them back, and then at the same time as buying back distribution, we then introduced retail.
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And then, of course, retail goes from bricks and mortar to now post-COVID online.
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A very charismatic tale of a business in rapid growth.
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Lots of posters around the offices of various leaders of men, Henry Ford, Japanese inventors.
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Are they are these here to inspire or inspiration matters, and the most important thing you'll see in this factories on the other side of that wall, which is what why we come to work, and it says we create urban freedom for happier lives.
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It doesn't say we make bicycles, it says urban freedom for happier lives.
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And that is ferociously true and really important.
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Many companies could put on that wall, we want to make our shareholders richer.
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That's what they're actually doing.
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And they might pretend they're doing something else, but they're not.
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Their job is to make shareholders richer.
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Who's gonna get out of bed, work at the weekend, who's gonna not see their child, you know, who's gonna miss this stuff for a company if they're gonna make shareholders richer?
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Not many.
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And we are trying to do what's on the other side of that wall, and I think that is really, really important.
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There is no doubt the shareholders that we have have become richer, but that is not the starting point.
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That is a consequence, and they backed Andrew when nobody else would.
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Most of them are his friends, they're people that knew him as he went on his journey, and more recently we've evolved the shareholder group, but it's still an independent company where the mission comes first before anything else.
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If we get the mission right, there will shareholder value will come.
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But that's got to be at the end, after the mission, the customer, the staff, the supplier, and at the very back, the shareholder.
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There's also a classic sort of marketing 101 to be about the ultimate benefit, exactly the way you described having it in your twenties.
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So the principle that you create urban freedom rather than making bicycles.
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That's a classic marketing sleight of hand, isn't it?
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But it's but it's not.
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And that's what makes me die.
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Marketing makes me vomit.
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Because you're saying sleight of hand.
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That's the problem.
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We're just awash with bullshit.
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That's not bullshit, it's true.
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That's a good challenge.
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Um maybe that's the word marketing is too loaded.
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Communication is what matters.
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Integrity is what matters.
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And if you want to find out whether that's true, just speak to some of our customers.
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Don't come to us.
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Because then you'll find out the truth.
00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:40.159
But the problem with our politicians and with brands, they mostly spout crap.
00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:43.679
It's over-exaggerated claims, and it turns out to be not true.
00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:46.639
And that is that is not what Planet Earth needs.
00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:53.200
What we need is better quality stuff, we need modesty, we need honesty, and if anything, we need to undersell.
00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:56.080
So that you leave something on the table to delight your customer.
00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:58.159
Because then they go, wow, this is better than I thought.
00:15:58.240 --> 00:15:59.279
When do you ever get that?
00:15:59.519 --> 00:15:59.919
Never.
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:09.759
Because you're told it's going to be amazing and your children are going to be well behaved, and your partner's going to be sexy, and you're going to lose like ten years of it's just mostly crap.
00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:16.559
That's why I find it very joyful coming in here to the factory and seeing real people making things with pride.
00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:22.320
Yes, people buy one of our products because they have a need for it.
00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.679
But they love it because it's changed their life.
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:28.320
You know, I cannot live without that bike.
00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:33.919
It has is it allowed me to be energetic, fit, healthy, happy.
00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:35.519
It affects my mental health.
00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:38.720
I can chuck in the back of the car, I came in this morning.
00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:40.879
I I just couldn't live without it.
00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:44.799
And and it it's it's not cheap, but I've had it forever.
00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:46.639
And it fits into my life.
00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:52.799
And the world is cr is is just under so much pressure because we're buying so much shit we don't need.
00:16:53.120 --> 00:17:04.640
We need to buy way less stuff and really focus our thoughts, our energies on buying delightful things that are repairable, that last long, that genuinely useful.
00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:12.720
But people, I mean, all these yellow storage centres popping up, it's a complete reaction to c crap consumerism.
00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:19.279
People buying tons of stuff they don't need and then shoveling it into boxes that they're never going to see again.
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:27.759
I mean, we've got a climate crisis because we've made too much stuff, and then a whole load of our stuff just gets burnt or chucked into landfill.
00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:35.119
I mean, it's all gone a bit wrong, and we need to row back and considered purchase.
00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:39.839
Take your time, do your research, buy less things that are delightful.
00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:43.920
We design out obsolescence, we don't design it in.
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:46.640
We want people to repair their bike, to look after it.
00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:49.039
We have spares for bikes that are 30 years old.
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:58.000
Because if you own a bike that's 30 years old, if you've been on journeys, you've been in the rain, you've met people, you've been to the pub, you know, whatever.
00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:02.319
You're gonna love that product so much, you're gonna never stop going on about it to all your friends.
00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:12.319
Most companies are just so short-sighted they want to design the thing to break to force you to buy another one, and that is again not what the planet needs, nor what the customer needs.
00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:15.759
Well, they say you should always be creating a customer rather than creating a sale.
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.720
Yeah, and really we're all getting a bit jaded.
00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:24.400
Even though we do watch all this stuff on social media, we're sort of we're fairly sophisticated.
00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:25.279
Well, maybe we're not.
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:34.880
You know, there's some theory that the big the big companies have got us by the shortened curlies, but one hopes we're a little bit sophisticated, because most of it we realise is over-exaggerated guff.
00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:41.680
The thing that you trust is when a friend of yours says, I tell you, I bought this, it's bloody awesome.
00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:50.799
The only thing at the moment that I get totally excited about, which has changed my life really recently, has been an automatic mower.
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:58.160
And I and I have been like when the customers say to me, I've got I'm your best salesman, I must have sold about 20 bromes.
00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:00.720
I bought one of these little electric mowers, it's changed my life.
00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:02.960
I'm not wasting my time walking up and down.
00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:05.680
That thing is brilliant, but you know, there aren't many.
00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:10.319
Most things you buy, you slightly wonder, in some cases, why the hell you ever bought it.
00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:14.640
Um, how does the sort of corporate mood music change around you?
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:19.759
Because it's amazing to hear them described as grubby little bikes given the what's the top-end Brompton?
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:24.480
The average sale price is just under 2,000 quid for a Brompton.
00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:30.000
And you'd start at just over a grand, and yes, we have a titanium electric bike that's six grand.
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:33.440
I mean, we don't sell very many, but if you want it, you can have it.
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:35.279
But that's not where it's at.
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:39.039
I mean, the thing I would articulate is do you have one of these?
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.279
I'm holding up a uh uh Apple phone.
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:42.079
Yes, I do.
00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:43.039
Yeah.
00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:44.400
How old is your phone?
00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:45.359
Very old.
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:49.119
Well, today's Apple phone costs about the same as a Brompton.
00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.559
And I mean, I don't need to say anymore, but it you won't have this phone in 20 years' time.
00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:57.680
It won't make your mental health better, it'll probably make it worse.
00:19:57.839 --> 00:19:58.960
It's not going to make you fitter.
00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:01.359
You probably won't live longer as a result of your phone.
00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:02.559
You will if you ride a bike.
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:05.119
I mean, it's it is such a phenomenal investment.
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:09.839
There are people spending money to inject themselves to get thinner.
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:13.519
That is nuts, and there's billion pound businesses popping up.
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:15.440
Where, hold on a minute.
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:21.839
Walking, cycling, of course, in the extreme, we need medicine to help us.
00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:23.279
Don't get me wrong.
00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:40.960
But most of what we can shift the needle by changing how we go about our daily lives, by thinking a bit more about what we buy, by thinking a bit more about how we move, thinking a bit more about how we travel, and just weaving in good stuff into our life, and we will have a happier life.
00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:48.880
But, you know, we we still keep doing silly things, and so we are, we might have got bigger, but we're still tiny.
00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:52.799
We should be doing more because we have such a positive impact on our customers.
00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:57.440
I mean, the thing that is exciting though is I've got a bike by my desk which is number nine.
00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:00.319
I bought it off a custom, but there's using it.
00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:05.039
We are currently on about 1.3 million Brompton.
00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:07.039
Every Brompton has a unique serial number.
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:14.559
So, you know, we may not be the biggest company, we've been around 50 years, and there are, you know, circa 1.3 million bikes out there.
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.079
That's that is a legacy, if nothing else, and that creates momentum.
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.559
And you say that Brompton isn't expensive, it is, but it's a phenomenal investment.
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:23.359
And guess what?
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:26.240
If you can't afford a new one, buy one that's 10 years old.
00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:30.400
It's still got 20 years of life in it, and it'll cost you five or six hundred quid.
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:31.920
It'll change your life.
00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:42.079
I'm gonna try not to call it marketing, but I think marketing is the correct umbrella phrase for the four P's product, price, place, and promotion.
00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:50.480
It feels like product is 90% of the story, and not the product.
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:53.920
It's the impact of the product.
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:59.759
So you talk about promotion, the promotion is.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.079
You're talking about corporate to consumer.
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:07.920
That is, if you're having to do that, you're pushing water uphill.
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:13.119
What you want to do is that your consumer is promoting your product.
00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:16.880
That is because the product has had an impact on the consumer.
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:25.039
And that is where you get a brand that starts to make profit because you're not having to pay someone because the product is doing the work for you.
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:29.359
But it is not the product that is the thing, it's what the product does for you.
00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:35.759
The reason why we like this iPhone and we all spend lots of money on it, because actually it does things for us.
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:40.079
We're not interested in the phone, we're interested in what it does for us.
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:43.839
And I think that is what businesses need to think about.
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:48.000
How are they contributing to planet Earth in the broadest sense of the world?
00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:49.519
How are we making it better?
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:51.599
Adding value to people's lives.
00:22:51.839 --> 00:23:00.559
If you get that right, and it genuinely does add value, and you let the value add drive the product development, then you're onto something.
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.240
Have you got an example of that last point?
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:11.279
The reason we have a bike, and let's put the electric titanium to one side, but I spent 15 years dreaming of this bike.
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:12.640
I mean, I dreamt about it.
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:21.119
I then went out to Moscow to start doing titanium just outside Moscow in what used to be the old Soviet military city to make titanium planes.
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:24.480
And I started there and we developed this titanium bike.
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:26.480
Eventually we set up a joint venture.
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:28.880
We're now the largest titanium frame maker in Europe.
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:30.799
That bike is not cheap.
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.279
So it's you know three and a half grand.
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:36.319
It is unbelievably cool.
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:39.839
It is so light, it is robust, it is strong.
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:41.759
It's an absolute joy.
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:43.119
It is an investment.
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:44.480
You have to save up for it.
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:49.279
But I have it over a three and a half grand car any day of the week.
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:51.119
I just love it.
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:58.640
And that was us ten years of development, setting up businesses, innovating the way we're making it, no one else is doing it in the world.
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:06.960
And that is us using the absolute extreme bounds of engineering to deliver something that weighs seven and a half kilos, not twelve.
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:10.480
And it's transformational for a product like ours.
00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:13.759
And then, different thing, electric.
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:15.440
We need to make an electric drive.
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.880
Bikes are going electric, but you've got to carry ours, it needs to be small.
00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:20.319
So what did we do?
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:24.240
We didn't go to Bosch because they were making big, fat, heavy motors.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:26.720
We went to Williams F1.
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:28.000
Because guess what?
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:32.319
Every F1 car had a KERS system in it, kinetic energy recovery system.
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:42.799
Every corner they went into, they turned a motor into a dynamo, sucked up that energy, put it into a battery, come around the corner, turn the dynamo into a motor, zoom, extra acceleration, off they went.
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:49.279
That F1 industry had created very powerful, very light motors, control systems, and batteries.
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:51.519
So we got an Innovate UK grant.
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:58.319
We went into F1 through Williams and sucked out that insight and developed our own motor, inverter, and controller.
00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:00.640
And that is now what we have developed into our bikes.
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.559
And it's it's pretty damn good.
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:09.759
So using engineering to make the bike more useful, and that's what you should be doing.
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:10.799
Start with useful.
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:13.119
Don't think, oh, we can do it, and we can make more money.
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:16.160
Oh yes, oh, and we can make it last and then break.
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:20.240
Like, you know, you're not gonna build a brand because a brand is trust.
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:21.599
That's all it is.
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:22.720
It's trust.
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:26.880
We say brand, but really what we're talking about is do you do people trust you or not?
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:28.880
Tell me a bit more about that.
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:33.599
Because I I agree with you, but people don't often articulate it in that way.
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:39.839
If you're gonna recommend anything to a friend, you've got to believe in it, you've got to trust it.
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:48.799
And you know, if you're on a bike, which is hard bike, and it's 10 years old, maybe it's 15 years old, you're whizzing down Nossing Hill, it breaks.
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:50.720
Then what?
00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:55.200
Then you're colliding into the tarmac, you smash your front teeth, you might break your pelvis.
00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:58.480
If you're lucky, there isn't a truck behind you that hits you, and then you're dead.
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:03.200
So there better be some trust there, otherwise, it's not funny.
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:07.680
We've got 1.3 million bikes out there in America, in Japan.
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:12.400
Think about the the liability with all those bikes.
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:14.240
There needs to be trust.
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:16.240
And you are buying that trust.
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:18.720
That's why you go to a brand, you trust it.
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:21.920
But you don't trust it because of their marketing spiel.
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:26.000
You trust it because other people trust it.
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:30.000
It's built trust over 20, 30, 40 years.
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:32.960
That's credible brand trust.
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:37.200
And as we all know, it takes a long time to build that trust.
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:40.720
It does not e it doesn't take long to break it.
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:43.599
So you corrected me when I talked about marketing earlier.
00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:46.319
You corrected me and said communication.
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:47.039
Right.
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:52.400
Tell me about communication and what do you communicate or how do you help customers communicate?
00:26:52.640 --> 00:27:02.960
We're so lucky because when we were little and we were very little, I mean, our marketing budget was like 60 grand, we couldn't afford marketing quite serious, simple as that.
00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:15.119
So the marketing was in Andrew's first bikes, a little what looked like a business card, a traditional little business card with a hole in it, and he got a tie wrap and stuck about 20 of them on the back of the saddle.
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:18.799
So whenever you're wandering around and somebody said, Oh, that's a bit weird, what's that?
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:24.000
No trouble, poof, pull one of the business cards off the back of the saddle, give it to the customer.
00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:28.240
And then we had customers ring up and say, I've run out of my little cards, can you send me some more?
00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:31.279
Word of mouth, and we made it easier for them.
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:32.480
It's now called a recommendation.
00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:34.799
You have an app and you get a little bit of a kickback.
00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:49.119
So communication is very important, and today, one of the reasons Brompton has succeeded is because we focus on that impact and experience of the customer.
00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:54.960
But at the same time that we did that, social media, email started.
00:27:55.200 --> 00:28:05.119
And so, for the first time, in the old days, if you had something that was amazing, you'd tell your family, you'd tell your colleagues at work, but that was about your reach.
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:08.799
But then suddenly in the early noughties, guess what?
00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:12.559
You could write something and other people would read it all over the world.
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:21.680
And actually, in the first 10 to 15 years of the internet and social media, it hadn't been messed up by big corporates, so it was quite true.
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:26.640
The algorithms hadn't come in and it wasn't all sort of chasing you down every time you looked at anything.
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:32.319
So people believed what they read, and they were right to, because there was a lot more honesty and integrity there.
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:42.079
And so we caught, we were lucky, or I was lucky, because I arrived at Brompton just at the moment that social media began, and we had a product that genuinely did good things for people.
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:49.440
So the combination of the two meant our reach through our customers went way, way bigger than anything we could ever afford.
00:28:49.599 --> 00:29:00.960
And today we try, I would still argue, not enough, to take content that our customers create, refine it, but it's the same content.
00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:10.000
But maybe if they created something that was, you know, 90 seconds long, we can curate it down to 15, 20 seconds long and then spit it out again.
00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:13.680
But it's not us creating the content, it's our customers.
00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:15.920
That to me is way more credible.
00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:23.519
We do still create our own content, which I always challenge, but I get pushback from people who are better than me.
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:29.519
But my inclination would personally, all of it would be created by our customers.
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:31.519
And what about things then?
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:37.200
I'm conscious that you've there's been a typeface initiative recently, for example.
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:40.160
I don't really give a stuff.
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:44.240
I mean, I don't really care about the typeface.
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:54.240
What you want to do is make it easy to consume, make it crisp, make it clean, cut the waffle, don't bore people with all this other stuff.
00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:56.559
So if that helps that, great.
00:29:56.720 --> 00:29:58.079
But do I really care?
00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:02.079
No, I just want a simple, clean, honest message.
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:04.960
And that's that's part of that journey?
00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:05.519
Great.
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:06.799
Andrew was brilliant.
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:12.400
He started designing the bike in 1975, didn't make any that he could sell until 1980.
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:20.480
So it took him five years, and then it took him another eight years really before he got going properly.
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:24.000
So it took him nearly 13 years to even start.
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:28.000
That gave him 13 years to make mistakes, refine it, refine it.
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:39.359
Elegant design is a refinement to the simplest, most simple, uncomplex, elegant solution.
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:41.119
Communication is the same.
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:43.599
The less you communicate, the better.
00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:54.960
The less adjectives, the less waffle, you know, but it takes time and takes thought to refine things down and have a really clean, simple message.
00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:57.759
And um, that I'm interested in.
00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:01.839
Typeface, if that helps us, but I'm not going to jump up and down about typeface.
00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:05.039
How involved are you with initiatives like that then?
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:09.279
Because I'm not directly involved unless it makes me want to vomit.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:13.599
Which point I'll just say, you know, I'll just contribute.
00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:15.680
But I I've recruited people better than me.
00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:17.440
So I've got to respect their judgment.
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:19.279
You don't recruit someone and tell them what to do.
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:20.319
That's a bit potty.
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:23.440
You recruit people, you give them the opportunity to go for it.
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:29.599
Unless it's in the extreme, I will I'll support them, I'll try and give a little bit of guidance.
00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:34.880
It's mostly when we start believing our own bullshit that I need to get involved.
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:38.079
And that is, you know, modesty is so important.
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:43.200
We have something in our in our people team that Brompton does not employ egos.
00:31:43.599 --> 00:31:49.839
And Chris William, who's running up our marketing, you know, he is not an ego, and that's quite hard in marketing.
00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:54.319
So it's important, and that comes with modesty about how you communicate.
00:31:54.480 --> 00:32:04.720
You're not exaggerating your claims, you're not, you know, you just be a little bit modest and sort of delightfully British and leave a little bit to the surprise and the delight when you get the product.
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:12.720
Do you consider yourself in competition with any other products or any other and and who are they?
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:17.759
The car, the tube, line bikes, the bus, other bikes.
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:19.839
I put other bikes pretty low down.
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:34.000
Yeah, I mean, you know, there are millions of people who decide entirely beyond me to pay money to go under the ground in a dump hole of a metal tube.
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:37.440
And if it's not the Elizabeth line, it's probably carcinogenic.
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:39.599
It's all fairly vile.
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:48.000
And in probably 20% of the cases, they could actually walk to where they were going faster, but no, no, they choose to pay to go under the ground.
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:53.279
In 70%, 80% of cases, you could cycle there faster.
00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:55.599
But the mindset is not there.
00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:02.400
So we have not done a good enough job to communicate how unbelievably awesome this thing is.
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:06.559
The bicycle, the most efficient mode of transport ever invented.
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:08.160
Forget SpaceX.
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:10.319
It's the humble bicycle.
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:11.359
And guess what?
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:21.359
If the bicycle is the most efficient mode of transport ever invented, which it is, the electric bike is the most efficient electric mode of transport ever invented.
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:30.559
We do not need flying bloody people mobiles, drones in cities making loads of noise and falling out of the sky.
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:35.200
We have bicycles and we need to do more exercise because the NHS is dying.
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:40.640
We cannot fund the sort of medical and health outcomes we've created in our society.
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:41.839
We do not have the money.
00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:47.279
So we need to shift how we think we're going to live to have a society that's viable.
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:49.920
And at the moment it is not viable.
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:51.920
My father is 87.
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:57.839
He grew up on rations, he climbed trees, he went to school on a bike.
00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:01.759
I mean, he basically just did what the hell he liked and didn't eat sweets.
00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:07.200
That generation are on their way out, and the NHS is struggling.
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:13.840
You wait till the next slots start clocking out because that is an absolute truckload of problems.
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:15.119
The NHS will crumble.
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:18.800
We, the taxpayer, do not have enough money to fund what's coming down the track.
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:22.159
So we need to change how we think we live our lives.
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:24.719
And it's not we go jabs.
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:27.280
It's positive living.
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:38.079
And it's about urban design, it's about creating an environment which encourages people to walk, to cycle, to be active, to be in the fresh air, which is good for your mind.
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:42.079
And you know, so we don't need HS2.
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:42.960
Can that?
00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:45.920
And let's make our cities livable, lovely cities.
00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:50.639
Tempting as it is to close there, because that's a rather heroic call to arms.
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:52.079
Well, what happens next?
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:56.559
What happens in this building or for the business globally or for you?
00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:01.119
So all we really want to do is create urban freedom for happier lives.
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:02.400
Now, how do we progress with that?
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:05.440
We progress with that by using technology.
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:10.639
And the amazingly exciting thing is, technology is moving very fast.
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:26.159
In many respects, thanks to having powerful computers, which everyone calls AI, but really it's just a very powerful computer, that allows us to optimize design, design of software, design of circuit boards, design of bike, it affects material science.
00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:36.559
So the opportunity for us to take something that people think hasn't changed for 50 years but has changed tons in 50 years and make it even better is significant.
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:49.039
And beyond that, I believe we will continue, sadly, to face more challenges in how we live on planet Earth.
00:35:49.199 --> 00:36:00.159
Cycling was a bit of a joke for politicians for a long time, and it still sadly is, because the amount of money spent on cycling infrastructure versus car infrastructure is just a joke.
00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:12.559
But what has changed in London, in Paris, in Shanghai, in New York, cities all over the world are putting in cycle lanes and they're putting in incentives like cycle to work seeking to encourage people to cycle.
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:13.679
Now, why are they doing that?
00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:17.599
That's not because they're interested in cycling, it's because the penny has finally dropped.
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:22.880
If we want to save on health, cycling is a way to do it.
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:26.559
So that that momentum is still coming.
00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:32.239
There is a lot of government money going into changing cities to make them more cycling friendly.
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:35.119
So is there any cap on your ambition?
00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:38.400
I mean, it's grown almost a hundredfold since you took over.
00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:41.440
Is there another hundred X left?
00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:46.159
So we'd be at 170 million, we're at 125, so I haven't quite got to 100.
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:47.760
I've occasionally done the maths.
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:54.000
But Warren Buffett, I read a book called Buffetology when I was at university and bought some B shares.
00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:55.199
Sadly, I sold them.
00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:56.239
What an idiot.
00:36:56.480 --> 00:36:57.840
Anyway, hindsight.
00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:04.159
Warren Buffett, compound growth is a beautiful thing, and I think that is really, really important.
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:15.199
So, you know, we live in a world of unicorns and footballers, and it's all gonna happen overnight, we're all gonna be millionaires, and and the reality is that just isn't the way the world works.
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:20.239
You have to work very hard and you have to be patient, and it's compound growth.
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:23.679
The last four or five years for us have been really tough.
00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:27.360
Our sector has gone through an absolute colossal implosion.
00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:33.679
I mean, it's just a litany, just litany, literally, litany of sadly, businesses going under.
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:36.719
So we just need to do a good job.
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:38.159
Look after our customers.
00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:42.159
I'm frustrated that we're not having a bigger impact because we should.
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:50.800
But you need to take where you are and do the best you can based upon the reality that you are in, but never lose your ambition.
00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:52.239
And that's where we are at the moment.
00:37:52.400 --> 00:38:00.079
We are having to be careful because the sector is tough, and we're having to look after every penny and our cash flow and all these sorts of things.
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:12.079
But this business, and I'm I'm a curator of this business, I'll look after it for a bit and pass it on to someone else, should be still here in 50 years' time because it's doing good things for planet Earth.
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:14.400
That is fascinating.
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:15.840
Thank you very much.
00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:16.880
My pleasure.
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:18.559
Thank you for listening.
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:25.519
Next time, we are going to take a break from our mission to break bread and talk brand with Chief Execs and Founders.
00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:38.159
We'll be reporting instead from the IPA effectiveness conference, covering everything from our Grand Prix winner to a far side chat with nationwide CMO Richard Warren, and even a light sprinkling of Lesbina.
00:00:07.679 --> 00:00:16.239
I'm Lawrence Green, Director of Effectiveness at the IPA, and you're listening to the Effectiveness Files in partnership with our friends at TrackSuit.
00:00:16.879 --> 00:00:29.039
I'm delighted that this episode finds me sitting opposite Will Butler Adams, managing director of Brompton Bicycle, in their London factory, which manufactures 80,000 bikes a year, no less.
00:00:29.679 --> 00:00:38.399
So we're gonna talk about the business marketing, whether that's been a big factor in the way you built the business out.
00:00:38.560 --> 00:00:42.960
But we always start by asking for a sort of potted career history.
00:00:43.119 --> 00:00:45.520
So you're here as chief executive.
00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:47.039
How did you get here?
00:00:48.159 --> 00:00:52.719
Well, I went to university and studied mechanical engineering and Spanish.
00:00:53.359 --> 00:01:08.159
I had spent a year in South America before going to university, got lost in the jungle, took an expedition back to the jungle when I was at university, made a documentary with that, we nearly all died.
00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:12.480
So when I left university, I thought, well, I'll go work in South America.
00:01:13.120 --> 00:01:21.200
And in the end, I didn't quite get the job I wanted in South America and ended up in Middlesbrough working for ICR, which is a big chemical factory.
00:01:21.439 --> 00:01:22.560
Did that for five years.
00:01:22.640 --> 00:01:23.680
It was actually epic.
00:01:23.840 --> 00:01:26.319
Brilliant people, ludicrous responsibility.
00:01:26.480 --> 00:01:31.439
As a young engineer, I had massive responsibility, and if it went wrong, people would die.
00:01:31.519 --> 00:01:32.719
And it made it fun.
00:01:32.879 --> 00:01:37.200
But then I thought, you know, rest of my life in a chemical plant, not really keen on that.
00:01:37.280 --> 00:01:39.040
And I've always been a greenie at heart.
00:01:39.200 --> 00:01:40.879
But I thought I'd go and do an MBA.
00:01:40.959 --> 00:01:41.760
That's what people do.
00:01:42.000 --> 00:01:45.760
Nearly 30, studying for my GMET, wanted to go to France.
00:01:45.920 --> 00:01:48.319
I was fluent in Spanish, thought I'd pick up French.
00:01:48.560 --> 00:01:54.719
Was visiting London, sat on a bus next to a bloke who went to university with the inventor of a weird folding bike I'd never heard of.
00:01:54.959 --> 00:01:58.159
Got chatting to him, and he said, This friend of mine needs some help.
00:01:58.319 --> 00:02:00.400
I thought, well, why not?
00:02:00.480 --> 00:02:10.960
So went back to Middlesbrough three months later, a few emails, down to London, met the eccentric inventor, and thought, this is an eccentric inventor making a weird product in London.
00:02:11.120 --> 00:02:12.159
Looks like a laugh.
00:02:12.319 --> 00:02:16.319
All the fun people in London, I'll do it for a couple of years and then do my MBA.
00:02:16.479 --> 00:02:18.639
And that was 20, nearly 25 years ago.
00:02:18.960 --> 00:02:20.240
Still haven't done the MBA?
00:02:20.479 --> 00:02:20.960
Well, I have.
00:02:21.039 --> 00:02:23.199
I just did it in a slightly roundabout route.
00:02:23.360 --> 00:02:25.039
In the thick of it.
00:02:25.360 --> 00:02:33.520
I haven't chatted to anyone else who got either lost in the South American jungle or took a team back to make a documentary and then almost died.
00:02:33.680 --> 00:02:36.400
So let's just let's go life experience before we start.
00:02:36.639 --> 00:02:42.879
So I watched David Attenborough programs and I watched Tarzan when I was growing up, as we many of us did.
00:02:43.199 --> 00:02:47.759
Thought Amazon, I want to get deep in the Amazon and learn about it.
00:02:48.000 --> 00:02:51.120
Ended up writing to missionaries, though I'm not very religious.
00:02:51.360 --> 00:02:55.360
Got somewhere with a Catholic and I'm not Catholic mission.
00:02:55.599 --> 00:02:59.680
They ended up running away from the jungle because they got some of them got chopped up.
00:02:59.840 --> 00:03:01.599
So that all went pear-shaped.
00:03:01.759 --> 00:03:03.360
But in the end I thought I'm going to go anyway.
00:03:03.439 --> 00:03:15.120
So I flew into a ketos, aged just 19, with long hair, having been travelling for about five months, and then met a guy, and we tromped off into the Amazon for about six weeks.
00:03:15.360 --> 00:03:20.000
And then I thought I was going to die, said goodbye to my parents, assumed it was all over.
00:03:20.159 --> 00:03:24.080
Obviously, your brain plays tricks with you, came out, bit of an epiphany moment.
00:03:24.159 --> 00:03:26.719
So then I thought, oh, I'm going to make a documentary.
00:03:26.879 --> 00:03:37.599
So went to university, clubbered together some slightly naive people, sent a treatment to Channel 4, got some help from the SAS, and made a documentary.
00:03:37.680 --> 00:03:38.960
But we all nearly copped it.
00:03:39.199 --> 00:03:41.680
Good preparation for having a factory in Greenford, though.
00:03:41.840 --> 00:03:42.400
Oh yeah.
00:03:42.560 --> 00:03:43.439
Well, that's amazing.
00:03:43.520 --> 00:03:45.039
That's a whole separate podcast, isn't it?
00:03:45.199 --> 00:03:46.879
Is that story in the public domain?
00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:48.479
Is that documentary somewhere still or not?
00:03:48.879 --> 00:03:51.759
Yeah, I mean it was televised by Channel 4 and went global.
00:03:52.080 --> 00:03:54.000
Seven Go Mad in Peru if you're really bored.
00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:55.759
Seven Go Mad in Peru.
00:03:55.840 --> 00:03:56.000
Yeah.
00:03:56.240 --> 00:03:57.039
Very good.
00:03:57.360 --> 00:03:58.960
You see, there is a creative streak.
00:03:59.039 --> 00:04:00.960
You may may be a humble engineer, but.
00:04:01.439 --> 00:04:03.680
Well, humble engineers need to be very creative.
00:04:03.759 --> 00:04:05.199
That's how we invent things.
00:04:05.439 --> 00:04:10.000
This idea that you have creatives and maths is the biggest load of tosh I've ever heard.
00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:12.240
And you literally met a stranger on a bus?
00:04:12.879 --> 00:04:16.480
I met a guy who I'd never met before called Tim Guinness.
00:04:16.560 --> 00:04:18.000
Funny enough, that's his picture up there.
00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:20.160
He was the chair of Brompton.
00:04:20.240 --> 00:04:25.519
He went to Cambridge with Andrew the inventor, and we got chatting, and that's how it started.
00:04:25.680 --> 00:04:33.920
And I would have done two years, but for the fact that this weird bike invented by an eccentric legend changed my life.
00:04:34.079 --> 00:04:35.680
And I am not a city man.
00:04:35.839 --> 00:04:38.959
I was brought up sort of in the countryside.
00:04:39.199 --> 00:04:46.720
Cities were big, claustrophobic, scary, you know, fun for a weekend, but not to live in it.
00:04:47.040 --> 00:04:59.120
But then this bike, which no one had, none of my friends had, it really was a pioneer's bike, but it was very cool because it meant I got to know London.
00:04:59.199 --> 00:05:01.279
I had friends who'd been there because I'd obviously been in Middlesbrough.
00:05:01.360 --> 00:05:08.879
They'd been there seven or eight years, and all they'd ever done is get up and go down the same hole in the ground and trundle along in a metal tube spluttered on by a load of other people.
00:05:09.040 --> 00:05:13.120
And I was whizzing along, cutting through back streets, down canals, across parks.
00:05:13.199 --> 00:05:16.319
I was going to nightclubs, folding it up, shoving it in the cloakroom.
00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:20.240
My girlfriend, who now became my wife, she's standing on the rear rack.
00:05:20.319 --> 00:05:23.600
It's two in the morning, zooming back to my flat, her flat.
00:05:23.759 --> 00:05:24.959
This thing was awesome.
00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:30.639
It meant suddenly the city was fun and liberating as opposed to claustrophobic.
00:05:30.720 --> 00:05:36.079
And then I met other customers, and they said to me, This bike's changed my life.
00:05:36.560 --> 00:05:38.160
That's fairly major.
00:05:38.319 --> 00:05:47.839
And you know, so I was given some great advice from a mentor I had when I joined ICI, chat called Andy T, and he said, You'll never know what you want to do.
00:05:48.240 --> 00:05:52.000
But if you ever find yourself doing something you don't want to do, get the hell out.
00:05:52.240 --> 00:05:53.519
And obviously, this is the opposite.
00:05:53.600 --> 00:05:56.480
I found myself doing something that was completely awesome.
00:05:56.720 --> 00:05:58.079
So I never got out.
00:05:58.319 --> 00:05:59.439
I was still here.
00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:01.839
So how big was the company when you joined it?
00:06:02.079 --> 00:06:03.439
1.7 million.
00:06:03.759 --> 00:06:04.959
In terms of revenue?
00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:05.519
Yeah.
00:06:05.920 --> 00:06:08.000
And how many bikes is that?
00:06:08.480 --> 00:06:10.160
Producing about 4,000 bikes.
00:06:10.399 --> 00:06:10.879
Pretty much.
00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:14.480
We were selling in the UK, Germany, and the Netherlands.
00:06:14.639 --> 00:06:16.160
We really didn't have a website.
00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:18.079
Marketing, forget it.
00:06:18.240 --> 00:06:20.240
In many respects, Andrew done all hard work.
00:06:20.319 --> 00:06:24.720
He got through the difficult bit and it taken him forever, and he started in 1975.
00:06:24.879 --> 00:06:28.399
I rocked up in 2002.
00:06:28.879 --> 00:06:33.279
So he worked very hard to get the difficult stuff done.
00:06:33.439 --> 00:06:36.879
I then turned up, picked it up by the scruff of the neck, and said, let's fire this thing up.
00:06:37.120 --> 00:06:39.839
Both engineers, but very different types of engineers.
00:06:40.079 --> 00:06:42.160
So what does firing it up look like?
00:06:42.480 --> 00:06:44.160
Making people know it exists.
00:06:44.639 --> 00:06:46.000
You can have the best thing in the world.
00:06:46.079 --> 00:06:48.240
It could be a service, a product, it could be anything.
00:06:48.319 --> 00:06:54.399
But if no one knows it exists, if they don't know how it might change their life, you're just gonna disappear.
00:06:54.560 --> 00:06:57.600
No one will know you existed, no one will enjoy it, you won't have an impact.
00:06:57.759 --> 00:07:01.600
And there's no point working hard if you don't affect people's lives.
00:07:01.680 --> 00:07:07.759
I mean, we all want to feel we've contributed while we're on our short little journey on planet Earth.
00:07:08.079 --> 00:07:14.000
So there's no point being a genius if no one has the impact of this amazing thing, whatever it might be.
00:07:14.639 --> 00:07:22.639
And is it obvious looking back now that there were sort of chapters in the journey from 4,000 to what was it today?
00:07:22.879 --> 00:07:23.439
70,000?
00:07:24.000 --> 00:07:25.199
80,000, something like that.
00:07:25.439 --> 00:07:29.279
Gone from about 1.7 million to about 125 million is where we are at the minute.
00:07:29.439 --> 00:07:32.800
The first thing I did was Andrew couldn't make enough bikes.
00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:34.160
That doesn't help.
00:07:35.120 --> 00:07:37.279
And that's because he was trying to do everything.
00:07:37.439 --> 00:07:40.160
He was a genius, but also a megalomaniac.
00:07:40.399 --> 00:07:42.240
And so he controlled everything.
00:07:42.399 --> 00:07:56.000
Well, we were bending little bits of wire on a four-stage manual press, and each time you did 500 bits of wire and you bend them in one form, you then take the tooling off, then you set up another tool, then you bend it in another form, and the whole thing took forever.
00:07:56.079 --> 00:08:03.600
And then in the Midlands, there's a you know 350 grand CNC wire bending machine that just goes wiggle-wiggle-wiggle and punk, and everyone's the same.
00:08:03.759 --> 00:08:08.560
This was on a fly press, and if and it had to be a bloke because you needed to have enormous guns.
00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:12.000
And by the time he got to sort of 456, his arms getting tired.
00:08:12.079 --> 00:08:12.560
So guess what?
00:08:12.639 --> 00:08:13.920
The bend wasn't quite the same.
00:08:14.160 --> 00:08:15.600
We chucked half them in the bin.
00:08:16.079 --> 00:08:24.160
So I got busy getting rid of any stuff that wasn't core, and core had magic, core had Brompton DNA, Brompton know-how.
00:08:24.319 --> 00:08:35.200
But if it was just a thing that many people in the world could make, let them get on with it, and we can focus on the really magical stuff like brazing, which is really at the heart of what we do.
00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:44.080
Um, so I got involved in that, and then I wanted more people to know that we existed.
00:08:44.240 --> 00:08:48.879
And luckily for London, it's extremely cosmopolitan, and for us, our bike folds up.
00:08:48.960 --> 00:08:58.720
So when people came and worked in London and they discovered this little bike, when they went home to Japan or whether they went home to Detroit or wherever, they packed their little bike up and take it home.
00:08:58.960 --> 00:09:02.720
And the somebody told somebody who said to somebody, Well, no one's selling that bike.
00:09:02.799 --> 00:09:05.200
Why don't I stick my hand up and I'll sell it?
00:09:05.360 --> 00:09:15.039
So then I started, in some respects, through the fact that our product had sort of self-fertilized in a funny sort of way, but nothing was there to nurture it and look after it.
00:09:15.279 --> 00:09:22.639
I then started taking that seriously and trying to look for distributors in the first instance.
00:09:22.799 --> 00:09:36.159
And a distributor is someone who picks it up from you, FOB, takes it into your country, deals with all the paperwork, invests in the stock, finds the retailers, builds a website, makes sure you've got customer service, you've got the spares and everything else.
00:09:36.399 --> 00:09:41.840
And then we had a nutter who is still with us, he's great, Mr.
00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:46.559
Loro, who decided he wanted to open a shop that only sold Bromptons.
00:09:46.799 --> 00:09:48.000
And we thought, oh, this is nuts.
00:09:48.080 --> 00:09:50.879
We're a niche of a niche of a niche of a niche, it'll never work.
00:09:51.120 --> 00:10:05.039
But he was determined and he wanted to open his shop in Kobe, where the good beef comes from in Japan, and he was only gonna sell Bromptons, and he was gonna call it the Brompton Concert Store, Kobe, whatever it was, it was a mouthful.
00:10:05.360 --> 00:10:07.279
And we were like, oh my god, we can't call it that.
00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:08.480
That's a terrible name.
00:10:08.559 --> 00:10:09.279
What are we gonna call it?
00:10:09.360 --> 00:10:15.200
Because we didn't want to call it Brompton because we felt that was the bike, and we thought the retail bit might screw up, so we'd call it something different.
00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:24.960
So we thought the bike is the bike, but where people meet is at the shop, and the the biggest conglomeration of meeting people in London is the is Clapham Junction.
00:10:25.039 --> 00:10:28.080
So we thought, oh, we'll call it Brompton Junction, that's where people meet.
00:10:28.240 --> 00:10:33.759
So that's what we did, and we had about a week to come up with it, and then we came up with a slightly squiffy logo that if you ditched.
00:10:34.000 --> 00:10:40.960
And then we had the awful Fukushima disaster about 10 days before we were opening the shop.
00:10:41.200 --> 00:10:45.440
I went in and for the store opening, and my lovely Japanese dealer, Mr.
00:10:45.519 --> 00:10:52.879
Laura, was just so honoured that I'd, against all the advice, flew in, to which I felt there was no risk whatsoever.
00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:54.080
And we had a great opening.
00:10:54.159 --> 00:11:00.000
And that was a precursor for us to realise we could actually open a store just selling Bromptons.
00:11:00.320 --> 00:11:05.440
And then we took the next big step, which is where we opened our own store in Covent Garden.
00:11:05.759 --> 00:11:11.200
The centre of London is owned by the King, it's owned by, oh, there are about three of them.
00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:13.519
These they've all they've all sort of wrapped it up.
00:11:13.759 --> 00:11:16.240
Dukes and Yeah, and and they've all wrapped it up.
00:11:16.399 --> 00:11:18.480
So we thought, oh, we can open a little store.
00:11:18.639 --> 00:11:20.080
And uh trotted on.
00:11:20.320 --> 00:11:21.039
What do you do?
00:11:21.200 --> 00:11:22.879
We're Brompton bicycles.
00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:25.919
No, no, I'm sorry, it's not available.
00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:27.679
Well, it looks like it's available.
00:11:27.840 --> 00:11:30.639
I think we can might we might be I'm sorry.
00:11:31.039 --> 00:11:32.720
We're creating our brands.
00:11:32.879 --> 00:11:34.639
No, no, sorry, not possible.
00:11:34.799 --> 00:11:36.720
And we found this everywhere we went.
00:11:36.799 --> 00:11:40.960
We could not get into Central London, they wouldn't let us in because we were like grubby little bikes.
00:11:41.279 --> 00:11:43.519
Eventually, it was classic.
00:11:43.759 --> 00:11:50.720
The guy who was helping us, who was a friend of Lorne's, who was my FD, suddenly rang up and we had a budget of 70 grand a year, was our rent we could afford.
00:11:50.879 --> 00:11:54.399
And he said, Will, Will, there's a shop on Longacre.
00:11:54.960 --> 00:11:57.519
It's come up and it's gone bust.
00:11:57.679 --> 00:12:00.240
So you can buy the business for a quid.
00:12:01.200 --> 00:12:02.480
Buy the chocolate business.
00:12:02.559 --> 00:12:04.799
So we charge around, but you have to make the decision today.
00:12:04.879 --> 00:12:06.399
And it was 90 grand, not 70.
00:12:06.559 --> 00:12:08.000
We didn't have time to get board approval.
00:12:08.159 --> 00:12:10.799
Lawn and I are in there, cool shop, cool location.
00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:12.480
We're like, oh, do we, don't we?
00:12:12.639 --> 00:12:17.600
We walk back, and then we saw this green roundle above the store.
00:12:17.919 --> 00:12:18.639
What's that?
00:12:18.799 --> 00:12:22.480
And there's a bloke in a tailcoat and top hat on a bicycle.
00:12:23.279 --> 00:12:31.679
And it said, from this location, in 1816, Dennis Johnson built and made Britain's first bicycle in this workshop.
00:12:31.919 --> 00:12:34.320
We're like, yippee, we're signing.
00:12:34.559 --> 00:12:37.279
So we signed up, and that was our first store in London.
00:12:37.440 --> 00:12:44.559
So then we got into retail, and at the same time as we started getting into retail, we decided to buy back our distribution.
00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:55.279
So then we took back Japan, we took back Singapore, we took back all of Europe, Spain, Germany, France bit by bit, took back the US, and we bought them back, which is unusual.
00:12:55.440 --> 00:13:01.600
We didn't just take them back, and that was important to us because it meant that our distributors were investing in something they'd get a return on.
00:13:01.759 --> 00:13:08.879
So we couldn't do it all in one go because they had to get the money to be able to buy them back, and then at the same time as buying back distribution, we then introduced retail.
00:13:08.960 --> 00:13:13.600
And then, of course, retail goes from bricks and mortar to now post-COVID online.
00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:18.080
A very charismatic tale of a business in rapid growth.
00:13:18.639 --> 00:13:25.840
Lots of posters around the offices of various leaders of men, Henry Ford, Japanese inventors.
00:13:26.000 --> 00:13:39.200
Are they are these here to inspire or inspiration matters, and the most important thing you'll see in this factories on the other side of that wall, which is what why we come to work, and it says we create urban freedom for happier lives.
00:13:39.360 --> 00:13:45.039
It doesn't say we make bicycles, it says urban freedom for happier lives.
00:13:45.200 --> 00:13:49.279
And that is ferociously true and really important.
00:13:50.559 --> 00:13:55.120
Many companies could put on that wall, we want to make our shareholders richer.
00:13:55.360 --> 00:13:57.440
That's what they're actually doing.
00:13:57.840 --> 00:14:00.480
And they might pretend they're doing something else, but they're not.
00:14:00.639 --> 00:14:02.480
Their job is to make shareholders richer.
00:14:02.559 --> 00:14:10.399
Who's gonna get out of bed, work at the weekend, who's gonna not see their child, you know, who's gonna miss this stuff for a company if they're gonna make shareholders richer?
00:14:10.559 --> 00:14:11.519
Not many.
00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:17.600
And we are trying to do what's on the other side of that wall, and I think that is really, really important.
00:14:17.919 --> 00:14:25.039
There is no doubt the shareholders that we have have become richer, but that is not the starting point.
00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:28.720
That is a consequence, and they backed Andrew when nobody else would.
00:14:28.879 --> 00:14:42.240
Most of them are his friends, they're people that knew him as he went on his journey, and more recently we've evolved the shareholder group, but it's still an independent company where the mission comes first before anything else.
00:14:42.399 --> 00:14:45.679
If we get the mission right, there will shareholder value will come.
00:14:45.759 --> 00:14:53.840
But that's got to be at the end, after the mission, the customer, the staff, the supplier, and at the very back, the shareholder.
00:14:54.639 --> 00:15:01.679
There's also a classic sort of marketing 101 to be about the ultimate benefit, exactly the way you described having it in your twenties.
00:15:02.080 --> 00:15:06.159
So the principle that you create urban freedom rather than making bicycles.
00:15:07.279 --> 00:15:09.600
That's a classic marketing sleight of hand, isn't it?
00:15:09.919 --> 00:15:10.879
But it's but it's not.
00:15:11.039 --> 00:15:12.639
And that's what makes me die.
00:15:12.879 --> 00:15:14.559
Marketing makes me vomit.
00:15:14.799 --> 00:15:16.879
Because you're saying sleight of hand.
00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:17.360
That's the problem.
00:15:17.759 --> 00:15:19.759
We're just awash with bullshit.
00:15:19.919 --> 00:15:21.519
That's not bullshit, it's true.
00:15:21.840 --> 00:15:22.639
That's a good challenge.
00:15:22.799 --> 00:15:25.360
Um maybe that's the word marketing is too loaded.
00:15:25.759 --> 00:15:27.120
Communication is what matters.
00:15:27.679 --> 00:15:29.200
Integrity is what matters.
00:15:29.360 --> 00:15:32.240
And if you want to find out whether that's true, just speak to some of our customers.
00:15:32.399 --> 00:15:33.519
Don't come to us.
00:15:33.679 --> 00:15:35.279
Because then you'll find out the truth.
00:15:35.440 --> 00:15:40.159
But the problem with our politicians and with brands, they mostly spout crap.
00:15:40.320 --> 00:15:43.679
It's over-exaggerated claims, and it turns out to be not true.
00:15:43.840 --> 00:15:46.639
And that is that is not what Planet Earth needs.
00:15:46.799 --> 00:15:53.200
What we need is better quality stuff, we need modesty, we need honesty, and if anything, we need to undersell.
00:15:53.279 --> 00:15:56.080
So that you leave something on the table to delight your customer.
00:15:56.159 --> 00:15:58.159
Because then they go, wow, this is better than I thought.
00:15:58.240 --> 00:15:59.279
When do you ever get that?
00:15:59.519 --> 00:15:59.919
Never.
00:16:00.080 --> 00:16:09.759
Because you're told it's going to be amazing and your children are going to be well behaved, and your partner's going to be sexy, and you're going to lose like ten years of it's just mostly crap.
00:16:10.639 --> 00:16:16.559
That's why I find it very joyful coming in here to the factory and seeing real people making things with pride.
00:16:17.519 --> 00:16:22.320
Yes, people buy one of our products because they have a need for it.
00:16:22.960 --> 00:16:25.679
But they love it because it's changed their life.
00:16:25.919 --> 00:16:28.320
You know, I cannot live without that bike.
00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:33.919
It has is it allowed me to be energetic, fit, healthy, happy.
00:16:34.080 --> 00:16:35.519
It affects my mental health.
00:16:35.679 --> 00:16:38.720
I can chuck in the back of the car, I came in this morning.
00:16:39.120 --> 00:16:40.879
I I just couldn't live without it.
00:16:41.039 --> 00:16:44.799
And and it it's it's not cheap, but I've had it forever.
00:16:44.960 --> 00:16:46.639
And it fits into my life.
00:16:46.799 --> 00:16:52.799
And the world is cr is is just under so much pressure because we're buying so much shit we don't need.
00:16:53.120 --> 00:17:04.640
We need to buy way less stuff and really focus our thoughts, our energies on buying delightful things that are repairable, that last long, that genuinely useful.
00:17:05.119 --> 00:17:12.720
But people, I mean, all these yellow storage centres popping up, it's a complete reaction to c crap consumerism.
00:17:12.880 --> 00:17:19.279
People buying tons of stuff they don't need and then shoveling it into boxes that they're never going to see again.
00:17:19.440 --> 00:17:27.759
I mean, we've got a climate crisis because we've made too much stuff, and then a whole load of our stuff just gets burnt or chucked into landfill.
00:17:27.839 --> 00:17:35.119
I mean, it's all gone a bit wrong, and we need to row back and considered purchase.
00:17:35.279 --> 00:17:39.839
Take your time, do your research, buy less things that are delightful.
00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:43.920
We design out obsolescence, we don't design it in.
00:17:44.160 --> 00:17:46.640
We want people to repair their bike, to look after it.
00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:49.039
We have spares for bikes that are 30 years old.
00:17:49.200 --> 00:17:58.000
Because if you own a bike that's 30 years old, if you've been on journeys, you've been in the rain, you've met people, you've been to the pub, you know, whatever.
00:17:58.160 --> 00:18:02.319
You're gonna love that product so much, you're gonna never stop going on about it to all your friends.
00:18:02.640 --> 00:18:12.319
Most companies are just so short-sighted they want to design the thing to break to force you to buy another one, and that is again not what the planet needs, nor what the customer needs.
00:18:12.640 --> 00:18:15.759
Well, they say you should always be creating a customer rather than creating a sale.
00:18:16.000 --> 00:18:18.720
Yeah, and really we're all getting a bit jaded.
00:18:18.880 --> 00:18:24.400
Even though we do watch all this stuff on social media, we're sort of we're fairly sophisticated.
00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:25.279
Well, maybe we're not.
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:34.880
You know, there's some theory that the big the big companies have got us by the shortened curlies, but one hopes we're a little bit sophisticated, because most of it we realise is over-exaggerated guff.
00:18:35.359 --> 00:18:41.680
The thing that you trust is when a friend of yours says, I tell you, I bought this, it's bloody awesome.
00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:50.799
The only thing at the moment that I get totally excited about, which has changed my life really recently, has been an automatic mower.
00:18:51.440 --> 00:18:58.160
And I and I have been like when the customers say to me, I've got I'm your best salesman, I must have sold about 20 bromes.
00:18:58.319 --> 00:19:00.720
I bought one of these little electric mowers, it's changed my life.
00:19:00.799 --> 00:19:02.960
I'm not wasting my time walking up and down.
00:19:03.039 --> 00:19:05.680
That thing is brilliant, but you know, there aren't many.
00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:10.319
Most things you buy, you slightly wonder, in some cases, why the hell you ever bought it.
00:19:10.640 --> 00:19:14.640
Um, how does the sort of corporate mood music change around you?
00:19:14.880 --> 00:19:19.759
Because it's amazing to hear them described as grubby little bikes given the what's the top-end Brompton?
00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:24.480
The average sale price is just under 2,000 quid for a Brompton.
00:19:24.640 --> 00:19:30.000
And you'd start at just over a grand, and yes, we have a titanium electric bike that's six grand.
00:19:30.480 --> 00:19:33.440
I mean, we don't sell very many, but if you want it, you can have it.
00:19:33.599 --> 00:19:35.279
But that's not where it's at.
00:19:35.519 --> 00:19:39.039
I mean, the thing I would articulate is do you have one of these?
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:41.279
I'm holding up a uh uh Apple phone.
00:19:41.680 --> 00:19:42.079
Yes, I do.
00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:43.039
Yeah.
00:19:43.519 --> 00:19:44.400
How old is your phone?
00:19:44.720 --> 00:19:45.359
Very old.
00:19:45.599 --> 00:19:49.119
Well, today's Apple phone costs about the same as a Brompton.
00:19:50.000 --> 00:19:54.559
And I mean, I don't need to say anymore, but it you won't have this phone in 20 years' time.
00:19:54.799 --> 00:19:57.680
It won't make your mental health better, it'll probably make it worse.
00:19:57.839 --> 00:19:58.960
It's not going to make you fitter.
00:19:59.200 --> 00:20:01.359
You probably won't live longer as a result of your phone.
00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:02.559
You will if you ride a bike.
00:20:02.640 --> 00:20:05.119
I mean, it's it is such a phenomenal investment.
00:20:05.279 --> 00:20:09.839
There are people spending money to inject themselves to get thinner.
00:20:10.079 --> 00:20:13.519
That is nuts, and there's billion pound businesses popping up.
00:20:13.680 --> 00:20:15.440
Where, hold on a minute.
00:20:15.759 --> 00:20:21.839
Walking, cycling, of course, in the extreme, we need medicine to help us.
00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:23.279
Don't get me wrong.
00:20:23.599 --> 00:20:40.960
But most of what we can shift the needle by changing how we go about our daily lives, by thinking a bit more about what we buy, by thinking a bit more about how we move, thinking a bit more about how we travel, and just weaving in good stuff into our life, and we will have a happier life.
00:20:41.599 --> 00:20:48.880
But, you know, we we still keep doing silly things, and so we are, we might have got bigger, but we're still tiny.
00:20:49.039 --> 00:20:52.799
We should be doing more because we have such a positive impact on our customers.
00:20:52.880 --> 00:20:57.440
I mean, the thing that is exciting though is I've got a bike by my desk which is number nine.
00:20:57.599 --> 00:21:00.319
I bought it off a custom, but there's using it.
00:21:01.119 --> 00:21:05.039
We are currently on about 1.3 million Brompton.
00:21:05.119 --> 00:21:07.039
Every Brompton has a unique serial number.
00:21:07.279 --> 00:21:14.559
So, you know, we may not be the biggest company, we've been around 50 years, and there are, you know, circa 1.3 million bikes out there.
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:18.079
That's that is a legacy, if nothing else, and that creates momentum.
00:21:18.240 --> 00:21:22.559
And you say that Brompton isn't expensive, it is, but it's a phenomenal investment.
00:21:22.720 --> 00:21:23.359
And guess what?
00:21:23.440 --> 00:21:26.240
If you can't afford a new one, buy one that's 10 years old.
00:21:26.400 --> 00:21:30.400
It's still got 20 years of life in it, and it'll cost you five or six hundred quid.
00:21:30.480 --> 00:21:31.920
It'll change your life.
00:21:33.279 --> 00:21:42.079
I'm gonna try not to call it marketing, but I think marketing is the correct umbrella phrase for the four P's product, price, place, and promotion.
00:21:43.039 --> 00:21:50.480
It feels like product is 90% of the story, and not the product.
00:21:51.440 --> 00:21:53.920
It's the impact of the product.
00:21:54.799 --> 00:21:59.759
So you talk about promotion, the promotion is.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:04.079
You're talking about corporate to consumer.
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:07.920
That is, if you're having to do that, you're pushing water uphill.
00:22:08.079 --> 00:22:13.119
What you want to do is that your consumer is promoting your product.
00:22:13.279 --> 00:22:16.880
That is because the product has had an impact on the consumer.
00:22:17.039 --> 00:22:25.039
And that is where you get a brand that starts to make profit because you're not having to pay someone because the product is doing the work for you.
00:22:25.119 --> 00:22:29.359
But it is not the product that is the thing, it's what the product does for you.
00:22:29.599 --> 00:22:35.759
The reason why we like this iPhone and we all spend lots of money on it, because actually it does things for us.
00:22:35.920 --> 00:22:40.079
We're not interested in the phone, we're interested in what it does for us.
00:22:40.240 --> 00:22:43.839
And I think that is what businesses need to think about.
00:22:43.920 --> 00:22:48.000
How are they contributing to planet Earth in the broadest sense of the world?
00:22:48.079 --> 00:22:49.519
How are we making it better?
00:22:49.759 --> 00:22:51.599
Adding value to people's lives.
00:22:51.839 --> 00:23:00.559
If you get that right, and it genuinely does add value, and you let the value add drive the product development, then you're onto something.
00:23:02.079 --> 00:23:04.240
Have you got an example of that last point?
00:23:04.799 --> 00:23:11.279
The reason we have a bike, and let's put the electric titanium to one side, but I spent 15 years dreaming of this bike.
00:23:11.359 --> 00:23:12.640
I mean, I dreamt about it.
00:23:12.720 --> 00:23:21.119
I then went out to Moscow to start doing titanium just outside Moscow in what used to be the old Soviet military city to make titanium planes.
00:23:21.279 --> 00:23:24.480
And I started there and we developed this titanium bike.
00:23:24.640 --> 00:23:26.480
Eventually we set up a joint venture.
00:23:26.559 --> 00:23:28.880
We're now the largest titanium frame maker in Europe.
00:23:29.039 --> 00:23:30.799
That bike is not cheap.
00:23:30.960 --> 00:23:33.279
So it's you know three and a half grand.
00:23:34.240 --> 00:23:36.319
It is unbelievably cool.
00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:39.839
It is so light, it is robust, it is strong.
00:23:40.000 --> 00:23:41.759
It's an absolute joy.
00:23:42.000 --> 00:23:43.119
It is an investment.
00:23:43.200 --> 00:23:44.480
You have to save up for it.
00:23:44.559 --> 00:23:49.279
But I have it over a three and a half grand car any day of the week.
00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:51.119
I just love it.
00:23:51.359 --> 00:23:58.640
And that was us ten years of development, setting up businesses, innovating the way we're making it, no one else is doing it in the world.
00:23:58.799 --> 00:24:06.960
And that is us using the absolute extreme bounds of engineering to deliver something that weighs seven and a half kilos, not twelve.
00:24:07.039 --> 00:24:10.480
And it's transformational for a product like ours.
00:24:10.640 --> 00:24:13.759
And then, different thing, electric.
00:24:14.000 --> 00:24:15.440
We need to make an electric drive.
00:24:15.599 --> 00:24:18.880
Bikes are going electric, but you've got to carry ours, it needs to be small.
00:24:19.039 --> 00:24:20.319
So what did we do?
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:24.240
We didn't go to Bosch because they were making big, fat, heavy motors.
00:24:24.400 --> 00:24:26.720
We went to Williams F1.
00:24:27.279 --> 00:24:28.000
Because guess what?
00:24:28.079 --> 00:24:32.319
Every F1 car had a KERS system in it, kinetic energy recovery system.
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:42.799
Every corner they went into, they turned a motor into a dynamo, sucked up that energy, put it into a battery, come around the corner, turn the dynamo into a motor, zoom, extra acceleration, off they went.
00:24:43.279 --> 00:24:49.279
That F1 industry had created very powerful, very light motors, control systems, and batteries.
00:24:49.440 --> 00:24:51.519
So we got an Innovate UK grant.
00:24:51.680 --> 00:24:58.319
We went into F1 through Williams and sucked out that insight and developed our own motor, inverter, and controller.
00:24:58.480 --> 00:25:00.640
And that is now what we have developed into our bikes.
00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:02.559
And it's it's pretty damn good.
00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:09.759
So using engineering to make the bike more useful, and that's what you should be doing.
00:25:10.000 --> 00:25:10.799
Start with useful.
00:25:10.880 --> 00:25:13.119
Don't think, oh, we can do it, and we can make more money.
00:25:13.279 --> 00:25:16.160
Oh yes, oh, and we can make it last and then break.
00:25:16.480 --> 00:25:20.240
Like, you know, you're not gonna build a brand because a brand is trust.
00:25:20.400 --> 00:25:21.599
That's all it is.
00:25:22.079 --> 00:25:22.720
It's trust.
00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:26.880
We say brand, but really what we're talking about is do you do people trust you or not?
00:25:27.519 --> 00:25:28.880
Tell me a bit more about that.
00:25:29.519 --> 00:25:33.599
Because I I agree with you, but people don't often articulate it in that way.
00:25:33.920 --> 00:25:39.839
If you're gonna recommend anything to a friend, you've got to believe in it, you've got to trust it.
00:25:40.160 --> 00:25:48.799
And you know, if you're on a bike, which is hard bike, and it's 10 years old, maybe it's 15 years old, you're whizzing down Nossing Hill, it breaks.
00:25:49.920 --> 00:25:50.720
Then what?
00:25:51.599 --> 00:25:55.200
Then you're colliding into the tarmac, you smash your front teeth, you might break your pelvis.
00:25:55.279 --> 00:25:58.480
If you're lucky, there isn't a truck behind you that hits you, and then you're dead.
00:25:59.200 --> 00:26:03.200
So there better be some trust there, otherwise, it's not funny.
00:26:03.359 --> 00:26:07.680
We've got 1.3 million bikes out there in America, in Japan.
00:26:07.920 --> 00:26:12.400
Think about the the liability with all those bikes.
00:26:12.559 --> 00:26:14.240
There needs to be trust.
00:26:14.480 --> 00:26:16.240
And you are buying that trust.
00:26:16.319 --> 00:26:18.720
That's why you go to a brand, you trust it.
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:21.920
But you don't trust it because of their marketing spiel.
00:26:22.720 --> 00:26:26.000
You trust it because other people trust it.
00:26:26.160 --> 00:26:30.000
It's built trust over 20, 30, 40 years.
00:26:30.160 --> 00:26:32.960
That's credible brand trust.
00:26:33.440 --> 00:26:37.200
And as we all know, it takes a long time to build that trust.
00:26:37.279 --> 00:26:40.720
It does not e it doesn't take long to break it.
00:26:41.039 --> 00:26:43.599
So you corrected me when I talked about marketing earlier.
00:26:43.680 --> 00:26:46.319
You corrected me and said communication.
00:26:46.880 --> 00:26:47.039
Right.
00:26:47.599 --> 00:26:52.400
Tell me about communication and what do you communicate or how do you help customers communicate?
00:26:52.640 --> 00:27:02.960
We're so lucky because when we were little and we were very little, I mean, our marketing budget was like 60 grand, we couldn't afford marketing quite serious, simple as that.
00:27:03.119 --> 00:27:15.119
So the marketing was in Andrew's first bikes, a little what looked like a business card, a traditional little business card with a hole in it, and he got a tie wrap and stuck about 20 of them on the back of the saddle.
00:27:15.279 --> 00:27:18.799
So whenever you're wandering around and somebody said, Oh, that's a bit weird, what's that?
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:24.000
No trouble, poof, pull one of the business cards off the back of the saddle, give it to the customer.
00:27:24.079 --> 00:27:28.240
And then we had customers ring up and say, I've run out of my little cards, can you send me some more?
00:27:28.960 --> 00:27:31.279
Word of mouth, and we made it easier for them.
00:27:31.359 --> 00:27:32.480
It's now called a recommendation.
00:27:32.559 --> 00:27:34.799
You have an app and you get a little bit of a kickback.
00:27:35.119 --> 00:27:49.119
So communication is very important, and today, one of the reasons Brompton has succeeded is because we focus on that impact and experience of the customer.
00:27:49.279 --> 00:27:54.960
But at the same time that we did that, social media, email started.
00:27:55.200 --> 00:28:05.119
And so, for the first time, in the old days, if you had something that was amazing, you'd tell your family, you'd tell your colleagues at work, but that was about your reach.
00:28:05.279 --> 00:28:08.799
But then suddenly in the early noughties, guess what?
00:28:08.960 --> 00:28:12.559
You could write something and other people would read it all over the world.
00:28:12.799 --> 00:28:21.680
And actually, in the first 10 to 15 years of the internet and social media, it hadn't been messed up by big corporates, so it was quite true.
00:28:21.920 --> 00:28:26.640
The algorithms hadn't come in and it wasn't all sort of chasing you down every time you looked at anything.
00:28:26.880 --> 00:28:32.319
So people believed what they read, and they were right to, because there was a lot more honesty and integrity there.
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:42.079
And so we caught, we were lucky, or I was lucky, because I arrived at Brompton just at the moment that social media began, and we had a product that genuinely did good things for people.
00:28:42.160 --> 00:28:49.440
So the combination of the two meant our reach through our customers went way, way bigger than anything we could ever afford.
00:28:49.599 --> 00:29:00.960
And today we try, I would still argue, not enough, to take content that our customers create, refine it, but it's the same content.
00:29:01.039 --> 00:29:10.000
But maybe if they created something that was, you know, 90 seconds long, we can curate it down to 15, 20 seconds long and then spit it out again.
00:29:10.319 --> 00:29:13.680
But it's not us creating the content, it's our customers.
00:29:13.839 --> 00:29:15.920
That to me is way more credible.
00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:23.519
We do still create our own content, which I always challenge, but I get pushback from people who are better than me.
00:29:23.839 --> 00:29:29.519
But my inclination would personally, all of it would be created by our customers.
00:29:30.160 --> 00:29:31.519
And what about things then?
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:37.200
I'm conscious that you've there's been a typeface initiative recently, for example.
00:29:38.400 --> 00:29:40.160
I don't really give a stuff.
00:29:41.119 --> 00:29:44.240
I mean, I don't really care about the typeface.
00:29:44.400 --> 00:29:54.240
What you want to do is make it easy to consume, make it crisp, make it clean, cut the waffle, don't bore people with all this other stuff.
00:29:54.400 --> 00:29:56.559
So if that helps that, great.
00:29:56.720 --> 00:29:58.079
But do I really care?
00:29:58.319 --> 00:30:02.079
No, I just want a simple, clean, honest message.
00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:04.960
And that's that's part of that journey?
00:30:05.119 --> 00:30:05.519
Great.
00:30:05.759 --> 00:30:06.799
Andrew was brilliant.
00:30:07.039 --> 00:30:12.400
He started designing the bike in 1975, didn't make any that he could sell until 1980.
00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:20.480
So it took him five years, and then it took him another eight years really before he got going properly.
00:30:20.559 --> 00:30:24.000
So it took him nearly 13 years to even start.
00:30:24.240 --> 00:30:28.000
That gave him 13 years to make mistakes, refine it, refine it.
00:30:28.559 --> 00:30:39.359
Elegant design is a refinement to the simplest, most simple, uncomplex, elegant solution.
00:30:39.680 --> 00:30:41.119
Communication is the same.
00:30:41.279 --> 00:30:43.599
The less you communicate, the better.
00:30:43.839 --> 00:30:54.960
The less adjectives, the less waffle, you know, but it takes time and takes thought to refine things down and have a really clean, simple message.
00:30:55.279 --> 00:30:57.759
And um, that I'm interested in.
00:30:57.920 --> 00:31:01.839
Typeface, if that helps us, but I'm not going to jump up and down about typeface.
00:31:02.480 --> 00:31:05.039
How involved are you with initiatives like that then?
00:31:05.519 --> 00:31:09.279
Because I'm not directly involved unless it makes me want to vomit.
00:31:10.000 --> 00:31:13.599
Which point I'll just say, you know, I'll just contribute.
00:31:13.680 --> 00:31:15.680
But I I've recruited people better than me.
00:31:15.759 --> 00:31:17.440
So I've got to respect their judgment.
00:31:17.519 --> 00:31:19.279
You don't recruit someone and tell them what to do.
00:31:19.359 --> 00:31:20.319
That's a bit potty.
00:31:20.640 --> 00:31:23.440
You recruit people, you give them the opportunity to go for it.
00:31:23.599 --> 00:31:29.599
Unless it's in the extreme, I will I'll support them, I'll try and give a little bit of guidance.
00:31:29.839 --> 00:31:34.880
It's mostly when we start believing our own bullshit that I need to get involved.
00:31:35.039 --> 00:31:38.079
And that is, you know, modesty is so important.
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:43.200
We have something in our in our people team that Brompton does not employ egos.
00:31:43.599 --> 00:31:49.839
And Chris William, who's running up our marketing, you know, he is not an ego, and that's quite hard in marketing.
00:31:50.079 --> 00:31:54.319
So it's important, and that comes with modesty about how you communicate.
00:31:54.480 --> 00:32:04.720
You're not exaggerating your claims, you're not, you know, you just be a little bit modest and sort of delightfully British and leave a little bit to the surprise and the delight when you get the product.
00:32:05.200 --> 00:32:12.720
Do you consider yourself in competition with any other products or any other and and who are they?
00:32:13.279 --> 00:32:17.759
The car, the tube, line bikes, the bus, other bikes.
00:32:17.920 --> 00:32:19.839
I put other bikes pretty low down.
00:32:20.079 --> 00:32:34.000
Yeah, I mean, you know, there are millions of people who decide entirely beyond me to pay money to go under the ground in a dump hole of a metal tube.
00:32:34.079 --> 00:32:37.440
And if it's not the Elizabeth line, it's probably carcinogenic.
00:32:37.599 --> 00:32:39.599
It's all fairly vile.
00:32:40.240 --> 00:32:48.000
And in probably 20% of the cases, they could actually walk to where they were going faster, but no, no, they choose to pay to go under the ground.
00:32:48.319 --> 00:32:53.279
In 70%, 80% of cases, you could cycle there faster.
00:32:53.440 --> 00:32:55.599
But the mindset is not there.
00:32:55.920 --> 00:33:02.400
So we have not done a good enough job to communicate how unbelievably awesome this thing is.
00:33:02.559 --> 00:33:06.559
The bicycle, the most efficient mode of transport ever invented.
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:08.160
Forget SpaceX.
00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:10.319
It's the humble bicycle.
00:33:10.400 --> 00:33:11.359
And guess what?
00:33:11.519 --> 00:33:21.359
If the bicycle is the most efficient mode of transport ever invented, which it is, the electric bike is the most efficient electric mode of transport ever invented.
00:33:21.519 --> 00:33:30.559
We do not need flying bloody people mobiles, drones in cities making loads of noise and falling out of the sky.
00:33:30.640 --> 00:33:35.200
We have bicycles and we need to do more exercise because the NHS is dying.
00:33:35.440 --> 00:33:40.640
We cannot fund the sort of medical and health outcomes we've created in our society.
00:33:40.799 --> 00:33:41.839
We do not have the money.
00:33:41.920 --> 00:33:47.279
So we need to shift how we think we're going to live to have a society that's viable.
00:33:47.359 --> 00:33:49.920
And at the moment it is not viable.
00:33:50.160 --> 00:33:51.920
My father is 87.
00:33:52.400 --> 00:33:57.839
He grew up on rations, he climbed trees, he went to school on a bike.
00:33:57.920 --> 00:34:01.759
I mean, he basically just did what the hell he liked and didn't eat sweets.
00:34:02.079 --> 00:34:07.200
That generation are on their way out, and the NHS is struggling.
00:34:07.519 --> 00:34:13.840
You wait till the next slots start clocking out because that is an absolute truckload of problems.
00:34:14.000 --> 00:34:15.119
The NHS will crumble.
00:34:15.199 --> 00:34:18.800
We, the taxpayer, do not have enough money to fund what's coming down the track.
00:34:18.960 --> 00:34:22.159
So we need to change how we think we live our lives.
00:34:22.320 --> 00:34:24.719
And it's not we go jabs.
00:34:25.039 --> 00:34:27.280
It's positive living.
00:34:27.679 --> 00:34:38.079
And it's about urban design, it's about creating an environment which encourages people to walk, to cycle, to be active, to be in the fresh air, which is good for your mind.
00:34:38.880 --> 00:34:42.079
And you know, so we don't need HS2.
00:34:42.320 --> 00:34:42.960
Can that?
00:34:43.119 --> 00:34:45.920
And let's make our cities livable, lovely cities.
00:34:46.239 --> 00:34:50.639
Tempting as it is to close there, because that's a rather heroic call to arms.
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:52.079
Well, what happens next?
00:34:52.239 --> 00:34:56.559
What happens in this building or for the business globally or for you?
00:34:57.360 --> 00:35:01.119
So all we really want to do is create urban freedom for happier lives.
00:35:01.199 --> 00:35:02.400
Now, how do we progress with that?
00:35:02.559 --> 00:35:05.440
We progress with that by using technology.
00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:10.639
And the amazingly exciting thing is, technology is moving very fast.
00:35:10.960 --> 00:35:26.159
In many respects, thanks to having powerful computers, which everyone calls AI, but really it's just a very powerful computer, that allows us to optimize design, design of software, design of circuit boards, design of bike, it affects material science.
00:35:26.400 --> 00:35:36.559
So the opportunity for us to take something that people think hasn't changed for 50 years but has changed tons in 50 years and make it even better is significant.
00:35:37.760 --> 00:35:49.039
And beyond that, I believe we will continue, sadly, to face more challenges in how we live on planet Earth.
00:35:49.199 --> 00:36:00.159
Cycling was a bit of a joke for politicians for a long time, and it still sadly is, because the amount of money spent on cycling infrastructure versus car infrastructure is just a joke.
00:36:00.320 --> 00:36:12.559
But what has changed in London, in Paris, in Shanghai, in New York, cities all over the world are putting in cycle lanes and they're putting in incentives like cycle to work seeking to encourage people to cycle.
00:36:12.639 --> 00:36:13.679
Now, why are they doing that?
00:36:13.840 --> 00:36:17.599
That's not because they're interested in cycling, it's because the penny has finally dropped.
00:36:17.760 --> 00:36:22.880
If we want to save on health, cycling is a way to do it.
00:36:23.039 --> 00:36:26.559
So that that momentum is still coming.
00:36:26.719 --> 00:36:32.239
There is a lot of government money going into changing cities to make them more cycling friendly.
00:36:33.119 --> 00:36:35.119
So is there any cap on your ambition?
00:36:35.199 --> 00:36:38.400
I mean, it's grown almost a hundredfold since you took over.
00:36:38.719 --> 00:36:41.440
Is there another hundred X left?
00:36:41.920 --> 00:36:46.159
So we'd be at 170 million, we're at 125, so I haven't quite got to 100.
00:36:46.239 --> 00:36:47.760
I've occasionally done the maths.
00:36:47.920 --> 00:36:54.000
But Warren Buffett, I read a book called Buffetology when I was at university and bought some B shares.
00:36:54.159 --> 00:36:55.199
Sadly, I sold them.
00:36:55.280 --> 00:36:56.239
What an idiot.
00:36:56.480 --> 00:36:57.840
Anyway, hindsight.
00:36:58.079 --> 00:37:04.159
Warren Buffett, compound growth is a beautiful thing, and I think that is really, really important.
00:37:04.639 --> 00:37:15.199
So, you know, we live in a world of unicorns and footballers, and it's all gonna happen overnight, we're all gonna be millionaires, and and the reality is that just isn't the way the world works.
00:37:15.360 --> 00:37:20.239
You have to work very hard and you have to be patient, and it's compound growth.
00:37:20.400 --> 00:37:23.679
The last four or five years for us have been really tough.
00:37:23.840 --> 00:37:27.360
Our sector has gone through an absolute colossal implosion.
00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:33.679
I mean, it's just a litany, just litany, literally, litany of sadly, businesses going under.
00:37:34.400 --> 00:37:36.719
So we just need to do a good job.
00:37:36.960 --> 00:37:38.159
Look after our customers.
00:37:38.239 --> 00:37:42.159
I'm frustrated that we're not having a bigger impact because we should.
00:37:42.400 --> 00:37:50.800
But you need to take where you are and do the best you can based upon the reality that you are in, but never lose your ambition.
00:37:50.960 --> 00:37:52.239
And that's where we are at the moment.
00:37:52.400 --> 00:38:00.079
We are having to be careful because the sector is tough, and we're having to look after every penny and our cash flow and all these sorts of things.
00:38:00.400 --> 00:38:12.079
But this business, and I'm I'm a curator of this business, I'll look after it for a bit and pass it on to someone else, should be still here in 50 years' time because it's doing good things for planet Earth.
00:38:12.400 --> 00:38:14.400
That is fascinating.
00:38:14.880 --> 00:38:15.840
Thank you very much.
00:38:16.159 --> 00:38:16.880
My pleasure.
00:38:17.840 --> 00:38:18.559
Thank you for listening.
00:38:18.719 --> 00:38:25.519
Next time, we are going to take a break from our mission to break bread and talk brand with Chief Execs and Founders.
00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:38.159
We'll be reporting instead from the IPA effectiveness conference, covering everything from our Grand Prix winner to a far side chat with nationwide CMO Richard Warren, and even a light sprinkling of Lesbina.
