00:00:32
S1: October 7th is Age Awareness Day. Let's chat a bit about it with Robert Tickner, who's with Every Age Counts. And it's great to welcome to the program. Robert Thank you so much. Great to speak to you.
00:00:44
S2: Oh, great to talk to you, Peter, and to your listeners on Ageism Awareness Day.
00:00:48
S1: Just about the day I believe this is the third one you've had.
00:00:51
S2: Yes, it is. So I chair the board of the National Every Age Counts campaign, which is made up of a coalition of organizations and individuals, including the Human Rights Commission, about 30 local government councils and 100 community based advocacy and research organizations who are working together to tackle ageism. And three years ago, we conceived this idea of trying to get a national day as part of the Australian calendar of events in order to raise the profile of the discussion around ageism in the community. And we've been amazed at the level of pick up, not only here in Australia but indeed around the world. In the United States, a number of national organizations associated with older Americans has picked up and celebrates today as well.
00:01:52
S1: Now you've done a bit of a study or a bit of a survey regarding people's attitudes towards ageism.
00:01:57
S2: Yes. Look, we have the survey was undertaken last year. And while there's been some small improvements, I've got to say that everything we found in the survey last year still stands. And essentially the baseline figure is that when we surveyed over a thousand people, 68% of those over 50, they were all over 50 agreed that ageism against older people is a serious problem in Australia. And when we looked at the group, 60 to 69, 73% of those regarded ageism as a serious problem. So I guess coming out of that, you know, one of the things I always like to convey is that the word ageism is not some, you know, trendy, hollow phrase. It's got real meaning. It's basically about practices and conduct which lead to stereotyping discrimination and mistreatment of people based solely on the basis of their age. And the evidence is that ageism can have terrible impacts on people's physical and mental health, even their long, long, long journey. And that's been verified by the World Health Organization. But it also impacts on employment opportunities for people over 50 and just generally the ability to fully participate in life, which I think is everyone's human right to participate to the extent that they're able to fully in the community and the world around them.
00:03:41
S1: Is employment or opportunities in employment. One of the things that concerns you.
00:03:46
S2: Look at is Peter, and surprisingly, the evidence is really clear on this. The Human Rights Commission and the Australian Institute of Human Resources have done a series of major surveys, and while there's been some little improvement over the last three or so years, something like about 20% of employers either will not employ or have a reluctance to employ people over 50. Now the first thing to say about that is that, you know, it is not legally possible to discriminate on the basis of age and nor should it be. So these employers are really running the risk of getting some major reputational damage for their businesses. But look, more fundamentally, they're missing out on a whole coterie of people in this very demanding labor market where where people have been essentially denied opportunities. And of course, as I emphasise, it amounts to a breach of the law in every state and territory. But I think this tells us something. And what it tells us is that in order to move our society to a better place and to eliminate discrimination and mistreatment of people, you can't just do it with the law. You've also got to take people's hearts and minds with us on the journey. And so we strongly believe there's a need for a national, ongoing public awareness campaign around. Issues of ageism.
00:05:34
S1: It's kind of interesting, isn't it? Because, you know, with medical science, there's the I guess just with gender information, people are living longer. Hopefully they're living better in terms of their health and their vibrancy. ET cetera. So, you know, 60, 70, 80 of today is not really an issue compared to, say, you know, maybe 30 or 40 or 50 years ago. And of course, if you look to America, there's a few people they're well into their 70s and 80s that have got positions that are fairly powerful.
00:06:04
S2: Well, that's a very pointed comment, Peter. And and I'm sure many would agree with you. The fact is that there are so many things that people are capable of doing as they grow older. And, you know, there are just so many false assumptions and stereotypes. You know, there's a suggestion that everybody who gets older gets dementia. It's not true that people lose their capacity in the workforce. Well, some might, but most don't. But they choose to retire. But others want to keep working. But there's also false assumptions we make about people growing older on the little things. You know, I know many people in the community and they include older women who sometimes tell me that they feel invisible, you know, that they lose their humanity as they're getting older. They're simply not recognized and respected as a customer in shops the way that they would expect and everyone would expect to be. And then you'd get, of course, these jokes around older Australians and older people in the world. And I know it's so easy to say, you know, it's only a joke, we're just having fun. But if you got some people and they might not just be the one person, but if you're constantly running up against people making disparaging remarks about your age and they might not even be, you know, ill intent, but just by being thoughtless. But you can imagine for a lot of people who may not have the self confidence that others have, you know, this grinds you down. And to be disparaged and put down because of your age is really terrible. And can I say that we believe in intergenerational solidarity. And I'd say the same thing applies to young people. You know, we need to treat people as we find them, not make stereotypical assumptions about people based on their age.
00:08:13
S1: We're all in this together. Robert For people who might not be aware, Robert Tickner, you're a member of Parliament, you're a minister for a number of years. I mean, with that sort of one of the government to do everything for us, so does the government or what sort of a role does the government have in something like this?
00:08:30
S2: Well, Peter, I should say that just for the record that I, you know, well over three decades out of public life now, and as I'm fond of saying, as I joke around, I'm clean, you know, I have no you've detoxed.
00:08:45
S3: I told you like that.
00:08:46
S2: I have no party political involvement. And I work with people of goodwill wherever I can find them on issues that I think are important to our society. It's true that government does have a role in these things. And, you know, the Minister for Health and Aged Care, Mark Butler, is someone who just delivered a major lecture in South Australia called the Hugh Stratton Lecture, and it really picks up a lot of these issues. And I'm not singling out one side of politics because we've also enjoyed support from the other side of politics as well. You know, when Ken White was minister and you know, and after him another the next minister. But I do think that this is an area where government has an important role to play in supporting public awareness and public education programs because the Royal Commission into Aged Care made the point in one of its reports that the issues of ageism, you know, were very much one of the underlying issues that gave rise to the dehumanisation of older people in aged care. And it's also similar thing that happens in elder abuse, you know, that thought that some people have that just because people are old, they don't matter anymore. And we've got to end that. We've got to recognise, Peter, as you said, that we're all in this together. We've got to look after our fellow human beings where wherever they might fall on. Me on the age spectrum. So we do hope the government, including not only the national government, but state and territory governments as well, get behind this public education and public awareness call that we're making.
00:10:46
S1: To expand a little bit on that.
00:10:47
S2: Well, I think there's real need, for example, to educate employers. You know, it's in a time when we've got a tight labour market, it's pretty damn obvious that we've got a whole coterie of employers and indeed not only in the private sector but also in the public sector as well. I think it's pretty shocking to learn where senior managers think that, you know, older people can't make, you know, the contribution that they believe they can to our economy into the workplace. A healthy workplace is a diverse workplace in in every form, you know, where where people with disabilities different generations, different age groups are represented, where men and women are represented, you know, where we really have that diversity. I won't go into all the areas in our workforce that gives us the richness and enhanced capacity in any organisation. So there is an important role for government to play, but we think that a community based campaign is really important, you know, because in every age counts, we've seen what an NGO can do. We were originally set up by the Benevolent Society in New South Wales and they've agreed to their credit to allow us now to flourish as a standalone organisation. The Every Age Counts Campaign's got a great website. People can look at just Google the words Every age counts and you'll see terrific resources there to explain our campaign and what we're trying to do. You'll see a video narrated by the actor Brian Brown about ageism. And there's a quiz there that people can look at, but also a place where people can sign up to be a part of this campaign. Just Google. Every age counts. And the way you go.
00:12:47
S1: Robert, it's been a delight to speak to you. You certainly don't sound like a politician, so that's a compliment.
00:12:52
S3: Well, I always.
00:12:54
S2: Tried, Peter. I always tried to do my best to, you know, act with conviction and integrity. Others have to judge how that worked out. But I also believe, too, that there are so many great people in the community who really are trying to build a better world as well. So we don't have to wait for governments, but they have a role to play in all of this as well. We can be we can be partners in this all together.
00:13:24
S1: Robert, it's been great talking to you. We'll put the link to every page counts on our website and thank you for spending a little bit of time with us on Ageism Awareness Day. It's a.
00:13:34
S2: Privilege. Thanks, Peter.
00:13:35
S1: That's Robert Navara, the co-founder for Every Age Counts, A very Important message on Ageism Awareness Day, Message for today, but a message that's relevant all year round.
S1: October 7th is Age Awareness Day. Let's chat a bit about it with Robert Tickner, who's with Every Age Counts. And it's great to welcome to the program. Robert Thank you so much. Great to speak to you.
00:00:44
S2: Oh, great to talk to you, Peter, and to your listeners on Ageism Awareness Day.
00:00:48
S1: Just about the day I believe this is the third one you've had.
00:00:51
S2: Yes, it is. So I chair the board of the National Every Age Counts campaign, which is made up of a coalition of organizations and individuals, including the Human Rights Commission, about 30 local government councils and 100 community based advocacy and research organizations who are working together to tackle ageism. And three years ago, we conceived this idea of trying to get a national day as part of the Australian calendar of events in order to raise the profile of the discussion around ageism in the community. And we've been amazed at the level of pick up, not only here in Australia but indeed around the world. In the United States, a number of national organizations associated with older Americans has picked up and celebrates today as well.
00:01:52
S1: Now you've done a bit of a study or a bit of a survey regarding people's attitudes towards ageism.
00:01:57
S2: Yes. Look, we have the survey was undertaken last year. And while there's been some small improvements, I've got to say that everything we found in the survey last year still stands. And essentially the baseline figure is that when we surveyed over a thousand people, 68% of those over 50, they were all over 50 agreed that ageism against older people is a serious problem in Australia. And when we looked at the group, 60 to 69, 73% of those regarded ageism as a serious problem. So I guess coming out of that, you know, one of the things I always like to convey is that the word ageism is not some, you know, trendy, hollow phrase. It's got real meaning. It's basically about practices and conduct which lead to stereotyping discrimination and mistreatment of people based solely on the basis of their age. And the evidence is that ageism can have terrible impacts on people's physical and mental health, even their long, long, long journey. And that's been verified by the World Health Organization. But it also impacts on employment opportunities for people over 50 and just generally the ability to fully participate in life, which I think is everyone's human right to participate to the extent that they're able to fully in the community and the world around them.
00:03:41
S1: Is employment or opportunities in employment. One of the things that concerns you.
00:03:46
S2: Look at is Peter, and surprisingly, the evidence is really clear on this. The Human Rights Commission and the Australian Institute of Human Resources have done a series of major surveys, and while there's been some little improvement over the last three or so years, something like about 20% of employers either will not employ or have a reluctance to employ people over 50. Now the first thing to say about that is that, you know, it is not legally possible to discriminate on the basis of age and nor should it be. So these employers are really running the risk of getting some major reputational damage for their businesses. But look, more fundamentally, they're missing out on a whole coterie of people in this very demanding labor market where where people have been essentially denied opportunities. And of course, as I emphasise, it amounts to a breach of the law in every state and territory. But I think this tells us something. And what it tells us is that in order to move our society to a better place and to eliminate discrimination and mistreatment of people, you can't just do it with the law. You've also got to take people's hearts and minds with us on the journey. And so we strongly believe there's a need for a national, ongoing public awareness campaign around. Issues of ageism.
00:05:34
S1: It's kind of interesting, isn't it? Because, you know, with medical science, there's the I guess just with gender information, people are living longer. Hopefully they're living better in terms of their health and their vibrancy. ET cetera. So, you know, 60, 70, 80 of today is not really an issue compared to, say, you know, maybe 30 or 40 or 50 years ago. And of course, if you look to America, there's a few people they're well into their 70s and 80s that have got positions that are fairly powerful.
00:06:04
S2: Well, that's a very pointed comment, Peter. And and I'm sure many would agree with you. The fact is that there are so many things that people are capable of doing as they grow older. And, you know, there are just so many false assumptions and stereotypes. You know, there's a suggestion that everybody who gets older gets dementia. It's not true that people lose their capacity in the workforce. Well, some might, but most don't. But they choose to retire. But others want to keep working. But there's also false assumptions we make about people growing older on the little things. You know, I know many people in the community and they include older women who sometimes tell me that they feel invisible, you know, that they lose their humanity as they're getting older. They're simply not recognized and respected as a customer in shops the way that they would expect and everyone would expect to be. And then you'd get, of course, these jokes around older Australians and older people in the world. And I know it's so easy to say, you know, it's only a joke, we're just having fun. But if you got some people and they might not just be the one person, but if you're constantly running up against people making disparaging remarks about your age and they might not even be, you know, ill intent, but just by being thoughtless. But you can imagine for a lot of people who may not have the self confidence that others have, you know, this grinds you down. And to be disparaged and put down because of your age is really terrible. And can I say that we believe in intergenerational solidarity. And I'd say the same thing applies to young people. You know, we need to treat people as we find them, not make stereotypical assumptions about people based on their age.
00:08:13
S1: We're all in this together. Robert For people who might not be aware, Robert Tickner, you're a member of Parliament, you're a minister for a number of years. I mean, with that sort of one of the government to do everything for us, so does the government or what sort of a role does the government have in something like this?
00:08:30
S2: Well, Peter, I should say that just for the record that I, you know, well over three decades out of public life now, and as I'm fond of saying, as I joke around, I'm clean, you know, I have no you've detoxed.
00:08:45
S3: I told you like that.
00:08:46
S2: I have no party political involvement. And I work with people of goodwill wherever I can find them on issues that I think are important to our society. It's true that government does have a role in these things. And, you know, the Minister for Health and Aged Care, Mark Butler, is someone who just delivered a major lecture in South Australia called the Hugh Stratton Lecture, and it really picks up a lot of these issues. And I'm not singling out one side of politics because we've also enjoyed support from the other side of politics as well. You know, when Ken White was minister and you know, and after him another the next minister. But I do think that this is an area where government has an important role to play in supporting public awareness and public education programs because the Royal Commission into Aged Care made the point in one of its reports that the issues of ageism, you know, were very much one of the underlying issues that gave rise to the dehumanisation of older people in aged care. And it's also similar thing that happens in elder abuse, you know, that thought that some people have that just because people are old, they don't matter anymore. And we've got to end that. We've got to recognise, Peter, as you said, that we're all in this together. We've got to look after our fellow human beings where wherever they might fall on. Me on the age spectrum. So we do hope the government, including not only the national government, but state and territory governments as well, get behind this public education and public awareness call that we're making.
00:10:46
S1: To expand a little bit on that.
00:10:47
S2: Well, I think there's real need, for example, to educate employers. You know, it's in a time when we've got a tight labour market, it's pretty damn obvious that we've got a whole coterie of employers and indeed not only in the private sector but also in the public sector as well. I think it's pretty shocking to learn where senior managers think that, you know, older people can't make, you know, the contribution that they believe they can to our economy into the workplace. A healthy workplace is a diverse workplace in in every form, you know, where where people with disabilities different generations, different age groups are represented, where men and women are represented, you know, where we really have that diversity. I won't go into all the areas in our workforce that gives us the richness and enhanced capacity in any organisation. So there is an important role for government to play, but we think that a community based campaign is really important, you know, because in every age counts, we've seen what an NGO can do. We were originally set up by the Benevolent Society in New South Wales and they've agreed to their credit to allow us now to flourish as a standalone organisation. The Every Age Counts Campaign's got a great website. People can look at just Google the words Every age counts and you'll see terrific resources there to explain our campaign and what we're trying to do. You'll see a video narrated by the actor Brian Brown about ageism. And there's a quiz there that people can look at, but also a place where people can sign up to be a part of this campaign. Just Google. Every age counts. And the way you go.
00:12:47
S1: Robert, it's been a delight to speak to you. You certainly don't sound like a politician, so that's a compliment.
00:12:52
S3: Well, I always.
00:12:54
S2: Tried, Peter. I always tried to do my best to, you know, act with conviction and integrity. Others have to judge how that worked out. But I also believe, too, that there are so many great people in the community who really are trying to build a better world as well. So we don't have to wait for governments, but they have a role to play in all of this as well. We can be we can be partners in this all together.
00:13:24
S1: Robert, it's been great talking to you. We'll put the link to every page counts on our website and thank you for spending a little bit of time with us on Ageism Awareness Day. It's a.
00:13:34
S2: Privilege. Thanks, Peter.
00:13:35
S1: That's Robert Navara, the co-founder for Every Age Counts, A very Important message on Ageism Awareness Day, Message for today, but a message that's relevant all year round.
