WEBVTT
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00:00:01.760Now, I'm not anti-tech.
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00:00:14.480I'm working very much in the tech world, but I really want to be an example of how creator-led innovation makes a difference, how creator-led innovation sustains the creative industry.
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00:00:19.359You are listening to Intangibilia, the podcast of Intangible Law.
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00:00:21.679Plain talk about intellectual property.
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00:00:24.800Please welcome your host, Leticia Caminero.
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00:00:28.640Hello and welcome back to Intangibilia.
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00:00:30.960I'm your host, Leticia Caminero.
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00:00:38.880It is rare to find a prolific creator whose unique perspective has shaped both her work and life.
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00:00:45.679We delve into conversations about opera, patents, and creative pursuits.
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00:00:52.000Join me in welcoming our extraordinary guest, an amazing person.
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00:01:00.000Hello, thank you for having me.
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00:01:00.640My name is Helen Epega.
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00:01:04.319I'm also known as the Venus Bushfires.
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00:01:05.519That's my stage name.
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00:01:13.359I'm a composer, I'm a libertist, a writer, I'm a synesthetic artist, and now also inventor.
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00:01:16.079A few more things that I also am.
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00:01:20.000I'm a mum of two very small children and a wife.
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00:01:26.239I'm um I said I am, I mentioned that I'm a synesthetic composer.
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00:01:31.439In my particular experience of synesthesia, sound is colour.
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00:01:34.560So sound is never just sound on its own to me.
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00:01:37.840I experience sound as colours in my periphery, in my vision.
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00:01:40.319And that's my general experience of the world.
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00:01:49.519And um through that experience, I've really learned that perception and the way that humans perceive experiences is very, very different.
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00:02:04.079When it comes to my creative practice as an artist, I learned very early on that the way that arts is created in the environment is geared towards one particular, a singular way of viewing the world.
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00:02:08.400And that's not the way that very many people experience the world.
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00:02:19.759And so my passion really is about making live performance and experiences, including digital, accessible to everyone at the same time, keeping everyone in the room.
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00:02:26.800So all my arts bring different cultures together and different people together to basically celebrate the human spirit.
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00:02:28.960So, yes, that's me.
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00:02:30.560That's remarkable.
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00:02:34.000I'm always being curious about uh synestesia.
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00:02:37.280It sounds for me like living in a magical world.
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00:02:43.120Uh can you give us like a visual description of what it's like?
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00:02:44.400Sure.
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00:02:46.479So um it is a magical world.
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00:02:50.159Sometimes I also fear experience a lot of um overwhelm.
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00:03:14.319So for example, when I hear particular sustained sounds, even if it's the sustained style sound of um an air conditioning unit, um, I start, well, I I see the colours in my normally starts off on the right side of my periphery, right at the top, and it's normally pinks and green hues.
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00:03:25.199And as I become more immersed into the sound, if I take some deep breaths and try not to ignore it, as I immerse into the sound, it more it starts to envelop my my vision.
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00:03:26.719That's how I experience it.
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00:03:32.400And the way I it's not cloud-like, it's more, it seems a sort of a dense colour movement.
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00:03:41.199Maybe like if you put some ink in water when it's spreading around, that's that's the best way that I think I can um experience it.
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00:03:53.120Recently, um, I found that when I'm very, very excited, I've been seeing more of a blue hue on my left periphery, sort of yeah, left middle.
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00:04:00.240Not so great at sharing the uh sharing what I what I see, but that's my general perception of of the world.
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00:04:00.879So I try to.
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00:04:02.080That's amazing.
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00:04:08.400Yeah, it it really paints a picture um of uh what you experience every day.
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00:04:23.120So something so um like uh, well, let's say like uh mundane has the air conditioner, has uh all these sounds that we're surrounded by sounds every day, and we don't necessarily pay attention to them.
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00:04:28.160So uh it's beautiful that um you can experience them in that way.
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00:04:33.920And I think also that translates in your art, in your work, and in the way that you create.
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00:04:39.839So connecting to that, you are a composer, performer, inventor, and founder.
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00:04:42.160Many people stay on one lane.
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00:04:47.279So you work moves across music, technology, and social impact.
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00:04:54.480What moment or realization push you to build projects like the one that you are building right now, Hiku?
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00:05:02.720Is it and step it into invention as well as act?
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00:05:09.120Um so my life as a composer started in Nigeria where I was born in Benin.
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00:05:14.639Um I was born in Ibadan, but my family's from Benin, and I went back to Benin at the age of six years old.
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00:05:21.279It's a very um artistic and also medical and legal-based family.
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00:05:33.279But we've always really celebrated art, and I remember sort of growing up loving uh the smell of rain, um, the colour that that would evoke, but at the time I didn't know what sedesthesia was.
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00:05:38.000And also I thought the whole world experience sound like this.
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00:05:43.040So it wasn't really something that I was that I was sharing, and there was no real language for it.
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00:05:50.399So I didn't really and came to London when I was seven years old, and then I had a whole different wealth of experience and different sounds.
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00:05:54.720And I didn't really want, you know, intend to be an inventor.
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00:05:59.120Um, I just set out to create meaningful artistic experiences.
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00:06:05.680Um, I've danced between culture, uh cultures, and I think music was a way for me to continue that dance and bringing people along.
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00:06:11.040I always think of it sort of like a tango, you know, a cultural tango through, you know, through music.
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00:06:25.360And um I observed really in my creative practice that cultural um environments had a standard for audience, or you know, in bracket, standard audience, and human perception is far more diverse than that.
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00:06:38.720And with through my synesthetic experience, I really wanted to explore how other people with synesthesia and just general, you know, the general public experience sound and art.
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00:06:45.040And so I thought, what is uh an art form that I don't necessarily know that much about?
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00:06:46.160And that's opera.
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00:06:57.839And so I thought to myself, I really, really wanted to explore how opera can become a broader and more um, it's often seen as something that's quite uh, you know, an art form that's very rarefied.
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00:07:06.879So I thought, how how why don't I experience opera with pidgin, which is a which is a language that's spoken by millions and millions of people all across the world.
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00:07:13.199I was mostly speaking sort of a West African um pidgin spoken in Nigeria, in Lagos.
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00:07:16.879And I learned that this pidgin is spoken in Hawaii as well.
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00:07:20.399So I thought this is a really good way to bring different cultures together.
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00:07:27.920So I created um Song Queen: A Pidgin Opera which was opera in pidgin English.
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00:07:36.319And um I then thought to myself, how can this be further explored and to bring other people that see the world in different ways?
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00:07:41.519And through that, I created um a methodology called access as creative core.
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00:07:48.399So rather than treating access um as something you add on at the end, it's part of the actual creative process.
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00:07:55.920And so I meet with um the communities that I want to really, really engage, and we really start to develop the work in that way.
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00:08:00.399And so access is really part of the creative um architecture.
00:08:00.399 -->
00:08:03.279And through that architecture, I developed HiQuu.
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00:08:23.839And um for me, this is one of the most exciting, you know, events in my life because I'm really starting to think of um how real life solutions can help make a meaningful difference to so many people who feel left out of the creative experience.
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00:08:32.159And um, it's now patent pending, and it's a system that basically translates um live environments into sensory cues.
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00:08:38.960So, for example, when you're at a show and it says flashing lights, someone like me, I'm thinking, when are the flashing lights?
00:08:38.960 -->
00:08:45.440So Heike says in 10 seconds, flashing lights will appear for five seconds.
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00:08:51.200So basically the audience can prepare, you know, we can prepare ourselves, and there's not an experience of startling.
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00:08:55.840And that's a difference between real belonging and feeling accommodated.
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00:08:58.240And there's a big difference in that.
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00:09:04.399And um, for me, in this world where technology is musing moving so fast, HiQuu is artist-led.
00:09:04.399 -->
00:09:06.159It's artist-led creation.
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00:09:12.879And I do believe that many of the inventions, of the important inventions, will be artists or creator-led.
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00:09:15.279Oh, that's wonderful.
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00:09:25.120So it's it's also uh making art as it's supposed to be, supposed to be for everyone to enjoy and uh for everyone to experience.
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00:09:31.519So this uh innovation is really uh uh putting that into practice, into a reality.
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00:09:46.159Um, you mentioned your opera, uh Song Queen: A Pidgin Opera, it's a very powerful idea, bridging African storytelling and language into a classical form that has historically been very European.
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00:09:53.679What motivated you to challenge that tradition and what reactions have surprised you the most from audiences?
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00:10:18.639Song Queen: A Pidgin Opera feels like sort of a world of experiences that came together, and um it changed my life in many ways because I was really looking for, um looking to explore cultural legitimacy, you know, why certain voices are heard and celebrated and certain voices are are not.
00:10:18.639 -->
00:10:30.799And I really wanted to create something that would start that dialogue, sort of pidgin and opera, um, where, you know, some two different forms of expression that don't normally come together.
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00:10:46.639And and that was really inspired by by um an experience at the Royal Um Royal Opera House in London, where I was wearing my African gele, and um many people came up to me in the interval, maybe because it was so big, you know.
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00:10:52.720Maybe next time I have to think about not having a galet that is that is so big when I'm part of an audience.
00:10:52.720 -->
00:10:57.759But um that made me sort of feel that it was a a rarity.
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00:10:59.840I was a rarity in that in that space.
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00:11:03.279So I thought I'm just gonna pidgin this whole situation up.
00:11:03.279 -->
00:11:11.200And um it was uh it was an experience that literally I sort of heard Parsifal by Wagner, and I thought, yeah, I'm going to create a pidgin opera, and that's how it started.
00:11:11.200 -->
00:11:17.200And um really wanted to say, without asking, can I be part of this art form?
00:11:17.200 -->
00:11:23.039I just wanted to say I'm going to be part of this art form, and this is how I'm going to do it.
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00:11:26.159And um, and I'm really open for the for the dialogue.
00:11:26.159 -->
00:11:28.639And I think it's something that has been welcomed generally.
00:11:28.639 -->
00:11:31.759I think opera audiences have thought, this is interesting.
00:11:31.759 -->
00:11:33.360Where is this going?
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00:11:35.200Uh, okay.
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00:11:39.039And I think I have to be honest, and also felt that there is some pushback.
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00:11:42.320I don't know that it's necessarily being open, you know, received with open arms.
00:11:42.320 -->
00:11:48.320Ten years ago, um, when I created Song Queen: A Pidgin Opera, there was really nothing like it.
00:11:48.320 -->
00:11:51.600And even now, there's still nothing like uh nothing exactly like it.
00:11:51.600 -->
00:11:57.600But I can see opera, the programming of different opera houses have has changed a lot.
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00:12:04.720And um and I don't mind saying that I do think I've contributed to that, even though I have not received the recognition.
00:12:04.720 -->
00:12:05.840I have seen it.
00:12:05.840 -->
00:12:09.840One knows when one's um work has has influence.
00:12:09.840 -->
00:12:20.639And for me, that's a really great thing to to to start this dialogue and beyond opera, whose voices um are shared, whose voices are heard, whose voices are celebrated.
00:12:20.639 -->
00:12:37.120So it's really wanting to bring my experience as a Nigerian and a British person together and find commonalities in different cultures and really highlight those commonalities and celebrate them in a fun way that is really engaging.
00:12:37.120 -->
00:12:46.960So we can, you know, we can have dialogues that are not always so easy, but very, very necessary for us to move, you know, to move forward as um as a society.
00:12:46.960 -->
00:12:56.159And for me, I think pidgin is fun, it has a rhythm, it has a flow, it has an energy that I think really is conducive to opera.
00:12:56.159 -->
00:13:04.240And I'm was really, really excited to bring such a bonkers crazy idea together that I think I think has worked.
00:13:04.240 -->
00:13:26.960So um it's not about rejecting, you know, tradition, it's really about expanding what the art form can contain and to celebrate the possibility that it can bring to to you know from new audiences and you know, and you know, what it could what could what it can do and what it could how it can transform the idea of storytelling and rhythm within the art form.
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00:13:46.480Yeah, and it's it's really um making a space as well, because as you said, it's um you were the pioneer, and then um the openness followed because the the road was already paved by your idea, uh by your execution of that amazing idea.
00:13:46.480 -->
00:13:59.360And now um since it worked, it also gave uh authorization to other people to be more welcoming of of these uh quote crazy ideas, but they're only crazy when they're not executed.
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00:14:02.799The moment they're at their reality, everyone's saying, Oh, well, this is perfect.
00:14:02.799 -->
00:14:04.639Why no one thought about us before?
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00:14:07.600You're you're yeah, you're so right.
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00:14:21.679And it's been 10 years now, so I I that's been a personal um a personal achievement, really, to have you know what is considered colloquial dialect celebrated on the world's, you know, the world stage.
00:14:21.679 -->
00:14:29.840It's it it is affirming as well, you know, and it's an example of you know bringing different cultures together.
00:14:29.840 -->
00:14:39.440And I think when exciting things happen on the peripheries, like with my vision, literally on the periphery, exciting things are happening when the two different things meet together.
00:14:39.440 -->
00:14:42.000Like I'm so interested in the space in between.
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00:14:46.639That's that's where the possibility of magic can happen.
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00:14:50.080Yeah, and then the sky is the limit.
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00:14:52.399The sky is the limit, absolutely.
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00:14:53.120I like that.
00:14:53.279 -->
00:14:54.480Or the the stars.
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00:14:56.159The stars, yes, I love it.
00:14:56.159 -->
00:14:57.919Yeah, yeah.
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00:15:05.039Intangibilia, the podcast of intangible law, plain tug about intellectual property.
00:15:05.919 -->
00:15:14.000Um, you have been running just today for almost two decades, working with vulnerable communities through expressive arts.
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00:15:23.120How has that work shaped the way you think about creativity, healing, and the role of artists can play in society?
00:15:53.980 -->
00:15:58.620Um just today started pretty soon after I left university.
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00:16:02.539So um that's yeah, that's about 20 years ago.
00:16:02.539 -->
00:16:04.059So I'm in my early 40s.
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00:16:12.699No, I'm in my mid-40s now, nearly mid-40s, and I and I'm very thankful for the years and I hope wisdom as as well.
00:16:12.699 -->
00:16:18.539And um, just a day it was really just started off with an idea when I was touring as a musician.
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00:16:31.340I would add on just a day to the end of a tour, or um and invite other artists to add just a day onto the end of their tour, where we would go into communities where we're touring and offer our expressive arts.
00:16:31.340 -->
00:16:34.939In my case, it was music, and sometimes it was art or poetry or dance.
00:16:34.939 -->
00:16:40.299We would offer that to the community as a way to educate through entertaining, so edutainment.
00:16:40.299 -->
00:16:51.100And um, it's since the workshops that um I designed have since been taught in conflict areas and disaster zones, a way to bring people together that um seemingly disparate.
00:16:51.100 -->
00:16:54.220Because through art, I think so many barriers are broken.
00:16:54.220 -->
00:17:17.180So art is such a powerful tool, not just for entertaining, but also healing and to bring joy, imagination, and possibility, sometimes at times where there is no hope, and sometimes where there is boundless hope, but bringing people and sharing this hope together and just really trying to experience what and explore what it is to be human in this way.
00:17:17.180 -->
00:17:37.019So um, through music and art and and movement and expression, Just today has since developed to be, you know, the the the methodologies has developed into my own creative practice through Access as Creative Core and with other people that want to tour and bring communities together in this way.
00:17:37.019 -->
00:17:42.700And even um even corporates have got involved over the years.
00:17:42.700 -->
00:18:18.220And just today has worked with corporates that have conferences, so be it just today after a conference, and financiers, bankers, um, secretaries would donate their skills to communities that have said they possibly need help in writing, you know, business plans or maths or starting, you know, starting a small enterprise and making it fun through music and art makes it less scary as well for people to share their skills and makes it less scary for people to ask for what it is that they particularly need.
00:18:18.220 -->
00:18:21.579So that that's been a really wonderful experience.
00:18:22.220 -->
00:18:27.819Yeah, when you take out a bit of the formalities, I found that people open up.
00:18:27.819 -->
00:18:38.619Um, when you make it into a game, into an activity, into something that people can really relax, then uh the exchange is is is more genuine as well.
00:18:38.619 -->
00:18:41.900And the person feels more comfortable and doing it.
00:18:42.220 -->
00:18:43.099Yes, you're right.
00:18:43.099 -->
00:18:50.460And just looking at the way that my two children work, they have had so many inventions through their play with Play-Doh.
00:18:50.460 -->
00:18:57.099And it's really through play that you know we um discover so so many things.
00:18:57.099 -->
00:19:09.019So even if you're sort of in a in a conflict zone, it's it's not just about the human physical survival, the survival of ideas, the survival of culture.
00:19:09.019 -->
00:19:14.940And when we dance, we play, we sing together, there's another possibility um that is happening.
00:19:14.940 -->
00:19:18.700And I think that is also well worth you know preserving.
00:19:18.700 -->
00:19:29.420The well-being is a very um important part of human preservation, not just our our physical health, but how we are inside ourselves, how we connect with each other.
00:19:29.420 -->
00:19:31.740That's that's just as important.
00:19:33.579 -->
00:19:38.139And physical health is very evident, so you can diagnose it very easily.
00:19:38.139 -->
00:19:44.220You can tell when someone is uh having any issue that is uh that is can be measured.
00:19:44.220 -->
00:19:48.859But um the mind is uh is very different and also tricky.
00:19:48.859 -->
00:19:57.420You we we trick ourselves thinking that everything is okay, or we we try to carry on uh when everything is crumbling inside.
00:19:57.420 -->
00:19:58.059Yes.
00:19:58.059 -->
00:20:02.139It's it's something it's it's very beautiful the work that you do regarding that.
00:20:02.139 -->
00:20:03.259Thank you.
00:20:03.259 -->
00:20:04.139Thank you.
00:20:04.139 -->
00:20:09.740So talking again about your platform, HiQ, I say it correctly.
00:20:09.980 -->
00:20:10.859Yes, perfect.
00:20:10.940 -->
00:20:11.900That's perfect.
00:20:13.099 -->
00:20:13.819Brilliant.
00:20:14.220 -->
00:20:20.779It's described as patent pending and designed to transform how people experience sound and performance.
00:20:20.779 -->
00:20:24.940What problem were you trying to solve when you started developing it?
00:20:24.940 -->
00:20:31.579And how did you imagine it changing the future of live performances or music education?
00:20:33.259 -->
00:20:45.740When I um discovered HiQuu, or sometimes I think when it happened to me, you know, um, was really seeing that people see the world differently.
00:20:45.740 -->
00:20:52.539And I'm now in a position where I have more of the language to experience to express how I see the world.
00:20:52.539 -->
00:20:56.779And knowing that other people see the world in a completely different way.
00:20:56.779 -->
00:21:05.420There isn't one way of experiencing the world, but yet cultural environments assume that there's a standard audience, and that audience just does not exist.
00:21:05.420 -->
00:21:13.019And um it's very clear that you know, theaters and cultural industries are going through very challenging moments.
00:21:13.019 -->
00:21:20.859Um, many people that are neurodiverse, blind or deaf, may not take part in arts and culture, may not go to the theater.
00:21:20.859 -->
00:21:23.819We just don't know that we'll always be held in that space.
00:21:23.819 -->
00:21:28.299So I just thought, I thought in today's world that's not acceptable.
00:21:28.299 -->
00:21:35.339And it's not any, it's not um a it's not been a choice necessarily for creators or theaters.
00:21:35.339 -->
00:21:37.019It's the lack of infrastructure.
00:21:37.019 -->
00:21:45.180So the problem was um, what is the infrastructure that is needed for everybody to feel they're they can be held in the same space?
00:21:45.180 -->
00:21:49.740So um I started exploring HiQuu as a solution for this.
00:21:49.740 -->
00:21:59.019A platform that, for example, for a platform that would say, this is the lived in, this is the environment, digital or live performance.
00:21:59.019 -->
00:22:00.460But let's talk about live performance.
00:22:00.460 -->
00:22:01.740This is the environment.
00:22:01.740 -->
00:22:17.420Um it harnesses AI for good, um, which is um where where I think creators can really become powerful in this space and translate the live environment into a way that the audience member has says they want to experience the world.
00:22:17.420 -->
00:22:28.379So, for example, visual, visual, visual cues might be supported for somebody that has said that is how they want to experience the world, or captioning for somebody who experiences hearing loss.
00:22:28.379 -->
00:22:42.220And the idea is to keep everybody in the same space rather than having segregated performances, which can be useful in their own way, but I'm trying to create a world where everybody feels welcome in the same space.
00:22:42.220 -->
00:22:56.539If I can invite my friend who is neurodiverse and myself, and a friend who is blind and a friend who is also experiencing hearing loss into the same performance, that also translates to a different type of world.
00:22:56.539 -->
00:23:05.980So we're in a world where we're now thinking about everybody from the inception rather than trying to add on in a compliance type of application.
00:23:05.980 -->
00:23:08.059So that's what HiQuu is doing.
00:23:08.059 -->
00:23:19.500And it was really important for me to create a to to apply for a patent for this because I don't want to be forgotten in history as well.
00:23:19.500 -->
00:23:27.259This is something that is really, really important to create the work and also to document it in a proper way and to protect it in a way.
00:23:27.259 -->
00:23:41.180And it's really important for me to create to protect this idea in a way that it serves the um intended audience first.
00:23:41.180 -->
00:23:45.099And if it serves the intended audience, it's serving every audience.
00:23:45.099 -->
00:24:00.059And so what starts in the creative industry has applications to well-being, um you know, infrastructure, and and um and um other other sector applications as well.
00:24:00.619 -->
00:24:01.500Yeah, 100%.
00:24:01.500 -->
00:24:06.379So as you know, I'm an IP lawyer, so always yes to patent.
00:24:06.379 -->
00:24:09.579Brilliant.
00:24:09.579 -->
00:24:24.940That uh the self-recognition, protection, and you can you can also shape it in the way that you want it to be uh used in the world.
00:24:24.940 -->
00:24:43.900So this is the the beauty of of the patent law that really provides you that uh exclusivity and you can you can somewhat shape the way that it will be utilized and and and it's always for um working in the in the sense that the reason why you created it.
00:24:43.900 -->
00:24:50.139So um making sure that it doesn't get uh um desnaturalized, let's say in a way.
00:24:50.139 -->
00:24:51.660Yes.
00:24:51.660 -->
00:25:22.940So um looking at your career as a whole, so thinking about all this amazing accomplishment accomplishment you have done on top of being a mom and a wife, it is not it is not easy, it's not easy if you have to type on your computer with a baby on the lap and a toddler on your leg, so it's like uh it's we all know it's it's hard work, but it's it's manageable, but it's hard work.
00:25:22.940 -->
00:25:23.420Yes.
00:25:23.420 -->
00:25:28.059So you move between art, social impact, and innovation.
00:25:28.059 -->
00:25:38.539If you could redesign the cultural and technology ecosystem to better support creators like yourself, what would you what would the need to change first?
00:25:40.299 -->
00:25:49.819Um I think there is something really exciting and scary happening in the cultural ecosystem and in terms of creative rights.
00:25:49.819 -->
00:25:58.299Um AI is used now throughout almost all of society, not just creative industries.
00:25:58.299 -->
00:26:06.779And um I think there's uh a narrative that needs to be challenged, which is one that creative work is hard to protect.
00:26:06.779 -->
00:26:08.940Um, I really disagree with that.
00:26:08.940 -->
00:26:15.980Um I think copyright protects creative work like patents and like you've mentioned um and inventions.
00:26:15.980 -->
00:26:24.619The current problem is that generative AI in particular is has been trained on creative work without consent or payment largely.
00:26:24.619 -->
00:26:35.099And um, that's not something that would happen in you know other other sectors like engineering or defense or pharmaceuticals.
00:26:35.099 -->
00:26:49.259And um the policy response um has not always kept up in line with you know with what's been invented and with with what's actually happening on the ground.
00:26:49.259 -->
00:27:04.460Um, for example, the Society of Authors have launched um the Brave New World, Justice for Creators in the Age of AI, which was commissioned not just by the Society of Authors, also supported by Independent Society of Musicians and the Association of Photographers and others.
00:27:04.460 -->
00:27:16.940And what that really does is really highlights the damage that has been caused and also provided a framework for how this technology can be used without being so extractive.
00:27:16.940 -->
00:27:22.700What the danger is um the loss of jobs, of course.
00:27:22.700 -->
00:27:32.139You know, we have that we have a pipeline that is also fragile and people are studying and creating things, but also feeling what's the point?
00:27:32.139 -->
00:27:34.139Will I have a job in 10 years?
00:27:34.139 -->
00:27:35.579Will I have a job in five years?
00:27:35.579 -->
00:27:37.339Will I have a job in six months?
00:27:37.339 -->
00:27:40.460That's the you know, the speed of which things are changing.
00:27:40.460 -->
00:27:46.139And I think it's really, really important to keep artists at the heart of inventions.
00:27:46.139 -->
00:27:47.819We create things all the time.
00:27:47.819 -->
00:27:49.259That's what we do.
00:27:49.259 -->
00:28:11.099So, you know, so it's it's really important to really empower artists, also to make sure the policymakers and tech companies really respect what it is we're doing, not to uh perpetuate or create environments that damage our ability to create the magic in the world.
00:28:11.099 -->
00:28:14.139We are translators of the human experience.
00:28:14.139 -->
00:28:23.259If we're not able to continue doing this and to be able to live off our work, um the danger is this stops happening.
00:28:23.259 -->
00:28:30.379And what happens when real people aren't able to exchange real ideas, real stories?
00:28:30.379 -->
00:28:39.099That's not um that's that's not conducive to a society, any society in the world that wants to be a leader on the global scene.
00:28:39.099 -->
00:28:44.059A healthy society is one where art and creativity, arts and culture thrive.
00:28:44.059 -->
00:28:51.500And if we're not very careful with the policy, and if the policy doesn't support this, it's just going to continue to be extractive.
00:28:51.500 -->
00:29:06.059And um, not just Brave New World, but also um the Society of Authors also just launched um another initiative called Human the Human Authored Scheme, which is celebrating works that is um created by humans.
00:29:06.059 -->
00:29:20.379Now, I'm not anti-tech, I'm working very much in the tech world, but I really want to be an example of how creator-led innovation makes a difference, how creator-led innovation sustains the creative industry.
00:29:20.379 -->
00:29:33.660And I think this is where policy needs to be focusing on because a society that ignores and allows art and culture to fade is not one that can say confidently, I'm a leader on the global scale.
00:29:33.660 -->
00:29:38.619There's soft power in the arts, and there is so much more that the arts do.
00:29:38.619 -->
00:29:53.900For example, a beautiful song that brings cultures and people together is just as powerful as a defense um invention designed to um keep social cohesion.
00:29:53.900 -->
00:29:58.619Now, that's a big statement, and that's a big um that's a big sentence.
00:29:58.619 -->
00:30:12.299But because one is done by people that smile and dance and um and um are are trying to engage the world in sometimes a playful way, that doesn't mean that what we are doing is less important.
00:30:12.299 -->
00:30:16.700In fact, I think it's even more important because it brings everybody along the journey.
00:30:16.700 -->
00:30:28.379So it's really important for policymakers to get up to speed and continue to empower artists and for artists to realize as well, this is our time.
00:30:28.379 -->
00:30:36.460This is our time to enter this space, this is our time to not leave the creativity just in the studio or or in the book.
00:30:36.460 -->
00:30:49.420It's our time to take this creativity and empower ourselves because our voices need to be heard in in patents, in copyrights, in documentation of the important work we're doing.
00:30:49.660 -->
00:31:07.980So yes, um, I love everything that you you mentioned uh regarding the power of the art and how we can really um build bridges, um create uh a strong sense of belonging as well.
00:31:07.980 -->
00:31:12.700And there's so many things that are universal to being human.
00:31:12.700 -->
00:31:20.220Doesn't matter where you are from or where you are in the world, what you do, um there's so many feelings that are universal.
00:31:20.220 -->
00:31:30.379And art reminds us of that, of uh everyone uh gets to be happy, angry, uh uh sad.
00:31:30.379 -->
00:31:33.259So we all experience this realm of emotion.
00:31:33.259 -->
00:31:37.180We all have experienced extreme joy or extreme betrayed.
00:31:37.180 -->
00:31:44.460So all of this is is really it's communicated to uh to art in in all the different forms.
00:31:44.460 -->
00:31:48.779So um I do believe that we will find a balance.
00:31:48.779 -->
00:31:53.420Always when a new technology starts, is always a bit chaotic at the beginning.
00:31:53.420 -->
00:32:00.700We saw that uh when the internet started, we we learned about it when the printing press started.
00:32:00.700 -->
00:32:05.900So we we know this has happened in history and will continue to happen in history.
00:32:05.900 -->
00:32:24.460The most important part is like we are right now in the moment to make and shape the future that we want and and to enjoy the the benefits of technology, the benefits of of this new amazing tool that is making uh life easier in many ways.
00:32:24.460 -->
00:32:39.740Uh so it's it's it's now our time to to see what's going on the future that we want to hold and and what is the the reality we want to live in in five, 10, 15 years and the rest of uh the rest of our lifetimes.
00:32:40.539 -->
00:32:41.420Absolutely.
00:32:41.420 -->
00:32:43.579I think it's an exciting time.
00:32:43.579 -->
00:32:52.059And for me to even think that I'm in this space shows that many things have gone right.
00:32:52.059 -->
00:33:09.980Because um the Helen, you know, the Helen that you know first came to London, you know, when I left Nigeria, I remember getting on the plane thinking, you know, they're gonna be robots and things like that doing the wash, washing off and things like that, even though I didn't do the washing off.
00:33:09.980 -->
00:33:14.619You know, just so many, so many possibilities.
00:33:14.619 -->
00:33:39.900And to keep that playful, playful approach to solutions, I think some many things have gone right, but there are also many challenges and also a risk of many things not going right if um if this particular innovation period isn't dealt with in a in a balanced way.
00:33:39.900 -->
00:33:55.259I think there are some good things in terms of investment that's happening on the scene that will make the possibility of more artists entering this space and for people with lived experience to actually enter this space is very, very important.
00:33:55.259 -->
00:34:01.980Quite often, people that are experiencing uh certain things, we have the answers.
00:34:01.980 -->
00:34:08.700So just really to feel empowered to enter this space and to be supported to to play and to fail.
00:34:08.700 -->
00:34:13.820Many things don't work, and and sometimes in the failures that you do find success.
00:34:13.820 -->
00:34:25.019So when I say failure, it's sort of a very small F and success with a very big S, because the whole point is to keep trying and playing and doing and um and doing new things.
00:34:25.019 -->
00:34:28.300So I'm very excited at the moment and um I'm very excited about HiQuu.
00:34:28.300 -->
00:34:31.740I think it can change the world in a positive way.
00:34:31.740 -->
00:34:36.139And I say change the world, and I'm thinking, Helen, what are you saying?
00:34:36.139 -->
00:34:38.059But yes, why not?
00:34:38.059 -->
00:34:46.539Why not, you know, why not dream big and why not protect the dream, you know, in the way that it could last far beyond myself.
00:34:46.539 -->
00:34:50.219And it's a platform that that can continue being built on.
00:34:50.219 -->
00:35:04.460And I hope that other artists will enter this space with new ideas that really challenge how we think, challenge how we see the world, um, challenge whose voices are heard and invite more people to the party.
00:35:04.460 -->
00:35:08.300And I never really believe in, you know, having, you know, asking for a seat at the table.
00:35:08.300 -->
00:35:20.059I kind of just always believe in building such a beautiful, magnificent, fantastic table that um other people will then ask to join and just make sure there's space for many chairs.
00:35:20.059 -->
00:35:21.739That's my approach.
00:35:22.219 -->
00:35:27.659Yeah, so keep uh making the table bigger and bigger and bigger and bringing more chairs.
00:35:27.900 -->
00:35:28.460Exactly.
00:35:28.460 -->
00:35:30.619More chairs, exactly, and more food.
00:35:30.619 -->
00:35:33.420More food, yes, it's important, very important.
00:35:33.420 -->
00:35:34.539Exactly.
00:35:34.539 -->
00:35:35.259Yeah.
00:35:35.659 -->
00:35:43.340It has been a pleasure talking uh with you, learning about your amazing work and and really seeing your passion.
00:35:43.340 -->
00:35:49.500It's it can you can really feel it whenever you you stress yourself about your project, your initiative, and your art.
00:35:49.500 -->
00:35:54.539So it has been my privilege meeting you and having you in the podcast today.
00:35:54.860 -->
00:36:00.219Thank you so much for the space to talk about these really important issues.
00:36:00.219 -->
00:36:02.300And the privilege has been mine.
00:36:02.300 -->
00:36:16.139And um, thank you for the amazing work you do and for giving a platform for tips you know to women that um, like you mentioned before, might not necessarily get this platform in this way.
00:36:16.139 -->
00:36:17.579So thank you very much.
00:36:17.579 -->
00:36:19.259My pleasure.
00:36:28.380 -->
00:36:32.860Thank you for listening to Intangibilia, the podcast of Intangible Law.
00:36:32.860 -->
00:36:35.099Plain talk about intellectual property.
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00:36:56.940Copyright Leticia Caminero 2020.
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