Episode 4: WHY AM I SO ANGRY?

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Welcome to Insight and Connection, where my husband Cam and I, who are both therapists, discuss everyday issues on a much deeper level to help others make more sense of the world we live in, live more happily in it, and feel more confident in developing solutions for themselves, their families, and their communities.
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So glad you're here.
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Welcome back to Insight and Connection.
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And today we are going to be talking about anger, one of my very favorite subject matters.
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It's my favorite because it's loud, it's active, it's something we can do something with.
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Versus a quieter emotion or something that's harder to identify, a little bit more difficult to work with in the office.
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But anger, I love working with anger.
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I'm very familiar with anger.
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Cam, how about you?
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Very familiar with anger.
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It's my go-to, it seems like it shouldn't be, but it is.
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And I think we'll that's what we're gonna talk about today.
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Why it's our go-to.
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Yeah.
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What does it what does it serve?
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And I have like and I have people call me like, I need anger management.
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It's like, well, y maybe.
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But anger's okay.
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Like the idea that anger's not okay is not okay.
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Yeah, I think that there's usually two camps about anger.
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One is that almost like an entitlement for anger, like I have the right to be angry.
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And there's uh a real comfort in overexpressing anger.
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And there's also the other camp, which is sort of a suppression of anger, or that it's not okay or safe to be angry ever.
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And so I think that the healthy outlook is that anger is a normal, healthy human emotion.
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We all get angry sometimes.
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Secondary emotion.
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It is a second.
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I'm so glad that you said that.
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It's a secondary emotion.
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And what does that mean?
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It means that it is a protective emotion, it is a defensive emotion.
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And in order to be able to regulate anger, we have to be curious about what is the pain or hurt that is underneath, that's sitting right underneath and driving that anger.
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It's almost like I think about a volcano, right?
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And we have those, the earth underneath it is unstable.
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And it's the earth's instability that causes the eruption in the volcano.
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So when we're looking at volcanic activity, we're not just looking at the lava.
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We're not just, sure, we might be studying it and looking at it, but what we're really doing in order to prevent it or to be able to keep people safe from the lava is we're looking at the what levels of instability underneath in the land that's going to cause that eruption.
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So when we're looking at anger, I kind of liken it to that.
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There's lots of models in in therapy, like you know, there's the anger iceberg, and there's that metaphor of a volcano, which is common when we're discussing the emotion of anger, right, Cam?
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I mean, you I'm sure you've heard of these things.
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Yeah, of course.
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Yes, yes.
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I mean, it's even like in cartoons, right?
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When people get angry, they're blowing their top, stuff's coming out, right?
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I think of Tom and Jerry.
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Yeah, but the stuff that's oozing out is actually the de-escalation of it.
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Right.
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Right?
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That's not the dangerous part for the volcano.
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Right.
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It's the volcano is actually better after it lets some of this stuff go and acknowledges there was too much pressure underneath there.
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Yeah.
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And so old school way of dealing with anger, okay, is like, you know, back in like the 70s, 80s, 90s, I think, even, what like I what comes to mind is like a couples therapist giving the couple bats, you know, foam bats, to be able to express that anger onto the other one.
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And we look, that's that's pretty old school.
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Now the research supports that when we're angry, we need to be able to go in somatically and soothe that anger by deep breathing, by breathing into the pain that's causing that anger, or even bring breathing directly into the anger.
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It's almost like nowadays, what we're doing as therapists is helping someone to identify their anger and then putting ice, ice on it, putting water on that flame, being able to douse that because it is secondary in nature.
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It isn't the thing that we want to focus on.
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We want to acknowledge that it exists, but then in addition to that, be curious about what the pain is that's causing that anger to erupt.
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And there's a difference too between the emotion of anger and then acting out of anger.
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So you have a behavior that goes along with that that that gets acted upon when from the emotion.
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From anger, okay.
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And so, you know, I think that that we have to look and be curious about the pain underneath the anger.
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Whenever I see someone acting out of anger, I immediately now think about how I almost jump to empathy because I know that that person is in great pain if they're behaving out of anger.
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It's almost like you're the pain is showing in my mind.
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Because every time I work with somebody in anger, I mean, I would say nearly 100% of the time, if someone's angry, we can trace if I'm asking the right questions, if I'm being curious as to why I'm treating anger as a secondary emotion, I'm finding the pain every single time, right?
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If someone allows me to ask those questions.
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But there's also certain defenses that go up.
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Like if we if we try to break this down even like from a gender standpoint.
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So, like men, like you're saying the way they act out.
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Well, a lot of times when men act out, they get physical, right?
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They become bigger, bronger, stronger, whatever it is, right?
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Get up in people's faces.
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That's kind of a show of a sign of strength.
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That's like, hey, I'm defending myself, even though what you're really doing is trying to soothe another emotion, right?
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But you're soothing it through perceived strength.
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Not really knowing that said perceived strength could get you charges.
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Totally.
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Or, you know, those revenge fantasies or whatever they are.
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Can you we'll talk about the revenge fantasy for a minute?
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I think it's so wrong.
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Well, yeah, I mean, that's just like I don't know.
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I mean, I I let's say somebody does something small to you.
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I don't know.
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They open up their car door, right?
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And they ding your they ding your car door with their car door.
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It's something small, right?
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You go and they go into work, kind of maybe not even knowing that it happened.
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And you come out and you see that little color of this door on your car door, and you know it's that car parked right next to you.
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And instead of like, oh, it's windy today, the car door probably blew open, whatever.
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It's I'm gonna slash all these tires, I'm gonna smash these windows, and this car is gonna be unmo drivable because the wind caught their door and dinged your door.
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Right, right.
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Right, like what's really happening is like you're disappointed that your nice car has a ding in it, and you're not giving credit to that it was an accident.
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This person probably didn't want their paint on your car because they have a problem too.
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True.
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Right?
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But you're disappointed, you're a little upset, but you automatically go to these revenge things because that's gonna make you feel better.
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I tend to think that if you're going into a fantasy hurting someone or trying to get someone back, if we trace back and get into the body of the person that is having that fantasy of hurting someone else's property, I think what we get into if we trace it all the way back, in my experience, it's a sense of powerlessness, and that's the function of the fantasy is to play out having more power over someone else.
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But having more power is really only coping for the disappointment that you felt.
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Absolutely.
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Or it's a way to feel so if if for some reason that paint, you know, that seeing that ding on your door, right?
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And that's a small example, but it gets people fired up.
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Yeah, uh, it's such a great example, right?
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Of something, something that somebody does, and now the impact it then has on the person whose door it was that got dinged, right?
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If you're going to fantasy, then I'm gonna guess if you're going to to some sort of fantasy about how I'm gonna get that person back, I'm gonna say that most likely the emotion that's underneath that anger is powerlessness.
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Probably.
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It could be other, I'm not saying it always is, I'm saying if there's that fantasy piece, right?
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Because I think that in order to what's behind a fantasy of homicidal fantasy, right?
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Or just hurting somebody else, getting them back.
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It's to regain power.
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It's to regain power because there's a loss of power elsewhere in their life.
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Yes, in your mind, right?
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Like, so I think that's that's important to say.
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But all all of this is to help start that conversation and to develop some curiosity about what is underlying that anger and that angry behavior.
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Because it's not just that.
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That's just like in terms of the anger iceberg, right?
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That's the tip.
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That's the tip.
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What's the all the stuff underneath it, right?
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Yes.
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Yeah.
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It's a beautiful, I wish there was, you know, you could see it.
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You could Google anger iceberg, and you'll see that underneath the water is the rest of the iceberg, and you'll see that that's where those more painful, hard to harder to feel emotions are.
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Anger's way easier to feel than shame or powerlessness or hopelessness or worthlessness.
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Yeah, or disappointment, fear, all those things.
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Like those are all we feel out of control with all of those, right?
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With anger, although there's that sense of being out of control, you have this perceived notion of strength.
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Yes.
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Well, let's talk about this culturally.
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Okay.
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So I come from an Italian background, Italian and Northern European background, but the Italian culture was one I really resonated with growing up.
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And in that culture, in my own family dynamic, anger was revered.
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It was it was encouraged.
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The more I got fired up, the more I got feedback from the adults that I was scrappy, I was powerful, I had thick skin, I could, I could take care of myself.
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And so that was I married that concept together.
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It's like if I'm angry, then I am all those other things.
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Yes.
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Right.
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So I was very angry.
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I feel like I was real comfortable being angry because it meant good things.
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It meant powerful things.
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And so you kind of have a similar thing too, right?
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Definitely.
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I mean, I grew up in the same idea, and on top of it, I'm male.
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Right?
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Male.
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And and so what uh your what's your background?
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So mine is like Turkish and European, right?
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Like German, so stubborn and strength and power through intellect and the ability to out-argue people, right?
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But then it's also I came from like a the loudest opinion wins, right?
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Right.
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So whenever there is a conflict, whatever it was, the loudest last voice won the argument, which was basically just an angry outburst by everybody until finally the loudest last one was the winner.
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That gives you great a great sense of power.
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I win.
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I won! I was the last and loudest, yes for me.
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No, every every everybody lost, really, right?
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But but yeah, and then on top of it, being male, I think says a lot, right?
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Can you speak to that a little bit?
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Well, I think we I think we already did, right?
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It's just being angry, the way your body reacts to it, you look bigger, stronger, you know, more threatening.
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I don't mean like I'm actually threatening people, but less touchable, right?
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And when you're if anger is your secondary, is the secondary emotion, and powerless and out of control, and shame and disappointment and fear are what you're really feeling, the presumption of strength and untouchable and threatened, of course they make sense.
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I'm defending against the very thing that I'm actually feeling.
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Yes, right, and you don't even know what it is.
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And I don't I mean this is happening outside of my awareness.
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Yes, and until uh until the whole thing de-escalates, and I'm like, oh, well, now I'm stuck in a room by myself.
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Right?
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Because the anger's doing its job, it's protecting you, it's protecting me until it's not, because now it is most likely taken me away from the exact thing that I needed the most to soothe what was the primary emotion being defended by the anger.
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Gosh, that's so beautifully stated.
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I love it.
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As a female therapist working with a lot of males, I have to be very culturally aware of that because I don't understand what it's like to be a man.
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I don't understand what it's like to like personally to grow up and not and be encouraged not to feel those underlying emotions.
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As a woman, I'm very much it's safe for me to do that.
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It's okay for me to go, I you know, I feel sad today, right?
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I'm watching a Hallmark commercial and I I'm feeling a little sensitive and I'm crying at that coffee commercial where the where the military brother comes in, that one always gets me, where the military brother comes home from screen.
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You know the one, right?
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It's like always around Christmas time.
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I can't even remember what coffee brand it is.
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Folgers.
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I think it's Folgers.
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And I I just every time I see that, and the the sister like is so excited, like I'm getting, I'm getting welled up now.
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It's and it's safe for me to say I'm getting welled up right now over a coffee commercial because I am a female, right?
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I think I think that when I'm working with a male and I'm explaining these things, I have to be sensitive to the fact that it hasn't been safe for for some males to feel any emotion, right?
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And they that was a good commercial.
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It very much is trying to sell more coffee, Mr.
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Robot.
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Right, right.
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Or, you know, oh yeah, you know, that you know, just some sort of logical cognitive way of looking at that.
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So I have to be aware of that and not be too, especially if I assess that someone's not very comfortable there in those emotions.
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I can't push that.
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I can't push that envelope there.
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I've got to meet that person where they are and help them step into those emotions in a way that feels safe for them.
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That's my responsibility.
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Well, it's it's interesting that you say that because I have the opposite effect when I have a female, because you're fine with that part of it, but some of the females are not fine with being outwardly angry.
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So they're angry, they still are, but then they suppress it.
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Yeah.
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Which leads to all sorts of they're still they still have it, and that anger is still defending something else, but then they they're the all the part under the water, right?
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They get stuck with the lower part of the iceberg, yeah, and then they just carry it.
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It's suppressed all the time.
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This and that, and he did this, and sh my son did that, and my daughter did this, and my best friend is this and that, because it's not okay for them to be outwardly angry, or they like to suppress it, but then they're just carrying it, and then they're they're anxiety, they're just and then it beats to their anxiety.
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And Gabor Mate would say that when we carry all that pain and we don't ever let it have an outlet out, that it can cause our physical illnesses, that we are at epidemic proportions.
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He he's really the kind of done the research to support the understanding of that that connection between mind and body.
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And I think that I think males do this too, but males do it in a way where they are overexpressing their anger.
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And I I don't want to put male and female on this necessarily because I have I have worked with plenty of females that overexpress their anger and plenty of males that have underexpressed their anger.
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Yes.
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But I think But then there's also the notion of the overexpressing male is kind of looked at as like a strong alpha male, and the but the overexpressing female is looked at as crazy.
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Yes, so true.
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Right?
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So I love that you said that.
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So however it's presenting in you, right?
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However, it's it it's not own that.
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Own own how it's you know, is it cultural?
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Is it um what you were taught in your family dynamic from a you know, family culture standpoint?
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So it's about being curious about your own anger and how it shows up.
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Does it show up?
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And today's podcast is about helping you to step into your own experience of anger and then continuing your exploration.
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So when we talk about, so now, you know, we're talking about anger, I think we also have to talk about polyvagal theory.
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And we've touched on this in other podcasts.
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And anger, when we're angry, we're in the sympathetic part of our autonomic nervous system, which means that our heart rate is up.
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It means that we might be feeling studies show that anger is felt in the extremities.
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Police officers will actually, they're taught to watch the people on a scene.
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And if their hands start to curl up into balls, right, that's their sign to pay special attention to that person in the crowd because that means that they could be getting ready to mobilize, like right, fight flight is sympathetic in polyvagal theory, right?
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So when we're angry like that, when we're getting into that place or we're securely in that place of sympathetic, we do not have access.
00:18:39.359 --> 00:18:41.119
We're in a different part of our brains.
00:18:41.359 --> 00:18:46.559
We do not have access to rational thinking that in the prefrontal cortex.
00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:48.559
We're in the back of our brain.
00:18:48.720 --> 00:18:49.039
Yeah.
00:18:49.279 --> 00:18:52.079
And now that's that survival mode of worry.
00:18:52.319 --> 00:18:53.119
Absolutely.
00:18:53.279 --> 00:18:53.599
Right.
00:18:53.920 --> 00:19:09.519
So now we're making, if we're making decisions, this is why people always say we don't make we shouldn't be making decisions when we're angry, because we don't have the ability to rationally think through a problem when we're in that sympathetic place and when we're angry.
00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:10.240
Right.
00:19:10.559 --> 00:19:20.799
Yeah, we're still in the I can mode of functioning, but it's I can mostly from a survival standpoint.
00:19:21.759 --> 00:19:22.319
Mobilization.
00:19:23.920 --> 00:19:25.680
Like that was that fight, flight, right?
00:19:26.079 --> 00:19:55.440
So it's very important to be able to identify when we're angry and then be able to step back and calm that anger down and get into that ventral vagal place where we can be calm and curious and be able to feel then the emotions that are driving that anger, because again, anger is secondary.
00:19:55.599 --> 00:19:57.359
Because something did it, right?
00:19:57.839 --> 00:20:01.279
It's not just anger, it's not, it's not just anger, right?
00:20:01.359 --> 00:20:08.319
I will say to my clients that that will initially argue this point that anger is, you know, I'm just angry.
00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:10.160
And I'll say, yes, absolutely.
00:20:10.400 --> 00:20:14.400
You are, and what are the other emotions there?
00:20:14.640 --> 00:20:18.880
Because we know that when someone is angry, there's also pain.
00:20:19.200 --> 00:20:22.799
I anger is a is protecting the pain.
00:20:22.880 --> 00:20:24.400
It's not a painful emotion to feel.
00:20:24.480 --> 00:20:25.680
It feels great to be angry.
00:20:26.000 --> 00:20:26.960
It's very releasing.
00:20:27.119 --> 00:20:27.680
Oh my gosh.
00:20:27.920 --> 00:20:31.920
Think about what happens just from a from you know, hormonal standpoint, right?
00:20:32.000 --> 00:20:35.119
Like the the adrenaline that gets pumped up in the body, right?
00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:37.039
You see people that are angry, like the Hulk.
00:20:37.119 --> 00:20:37.839
I love the Hulk.
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:38.880
I love all those superheroes.
00:20:39.119 --> 00:20:39.519
Red Hulk.
00:20:39.599 --> 00:20:39.839
Yeah.
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:40.640
Red Hulk.
00:20:40.799 --> 00:20:44.480
You can see the veins in the neck start to pop out, right?
00:20:44.799 --> 00:20:47.440
It is a it's a beautiful feeling.
00:20:47.599 --> 00:20:55.519
We were watching a video this morning of someone that was upset about their employer, and they were moving states from anger to sadness.
00:20:55.599 --> 00:21:00.160
And we were watching this person's tone of voice, what their bodies were doing.
00:21:00.319 --> 00:21:08.160
When the person was angry, they were the voice was raised, the speed at which they were talking was faster.
00:21:08.319 --> 00:21:12.160
It kind of was nonsensical, but louder and faster.
00:21:12.400 --> 00:21:13.039
Yes.
00:21:13.359 --> 00:21:20.480
But then when they would when they came back down, it was crying and slower and more thoughtful.
00:21:20.640 --> 00:21:22.559
Like it was why they were saying, right?
00:21:22.640 --> 00:21:24.880
It was like, I'm not supported here at work.
00:21:25.119 --> 00:21:30.880
People are leaving us under you know, understaffed, like gave all the reasons why they were so upset.
00:21:31.119 --> 00:21:58.240
Yes, that's where we that's in therapy, where we're trying to help someone go, whether it's cognitively, emotionally, somatically, being able to bring them to their pain, getting closer to the pain, because that's the thing that we can control is our own painful pain from whatever experience we're in having with the world around us.
00:21:58.559 --> 00:22:01.759
So Let's talk about this for a minute.
00:22:01.920 --> 00:22:02.079
Okay.
00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:07.039
So let's let's talk about Because I I hear you saying it's okay to be angry.
00:22:07.119 --> 00:22:13.519
And so many people are like, yes, it's okay to be angry if you allow it to run its course.
00:22:14.000 --> 00:22:17.839
But then there's the you know the three parts of as we exist, right?
00:22:17.920 --> 00:22:21.839
Like our thoughts, our emotions, and our behaviors are our actions.
00:22:22.079 --> 00:22:25.519
We cannot let anger guide it all.
00:22:25.920 --> 00:22:26.400
Right.
00:22:26.640 --> 00:22:27.200
Yes.
00:22:27.759 --> 00:22:34.960
Because you're gonna end up like you you just beautifully stated earlier, you have when you're angry, there's a need that you have.
00:22:35.119 --> 00:22:35.759
You're in pain.
00:22:35.839 --> 00:22:40.240
And if you're acting out of anger, you're not acting in a way to get that need met.
00:22:40.559 --> 00:22:45.680
Well, no, because you're disregarding the very thing, the very need you have that anger is protecting.
00:22:45.920 --> 00:22:47.039
Yes, that's right.
00:22:47.279 --> 00:22:49.279
Which ultimately is gonna fall in on itself.
00:22:49.519 --> 00:22:50.640
Yes, yes.
00:22:51.039 --> 00:22:57.200
So let's talk about how to get and be curious about that anger.
00:22:57.279 --> 00:23:13.119
So if anger is this really hot experience, I think that it's really important to be able to know the activities that really work for you to be able to soothe that anger down so you can get curious.
00:23:13.359 --> 00:23:15.519
And that's different for everybody.
00:23:15.839 --> 00:23:18.480
For me, I do lots of yoga.
00:23:18.640 --> 00:23:25.359
I I've been doing yoga for a long time, and those principles really help me and the breath, the yoga breath.
00:23:25.599 --> 00:23:36.960
Like there is this breath called an uaji breath, and it's a breath where you inhale, and then you the exhale, it almost sounds like Darth Vader in the back of your throat.
00:23:37.039 --> 00:23:51.519
It's like uh, you know, you're constricting just a little bit, and you're breathing all the way, all the way out in an exhale, and then you're breathing back in, filling all the way, all the way up, a little pause, and then you're exhaling in that way.
00:23:51.759 --> 00:24:00.640
And that's embedded in the movement of yoga, so it becomes a moving meditation, and the breath is what anchors you to the present moment.
00:24:01.039 --> 00:24:11.279
So that breath is the way that I will soothe that anger down and get myself back into a ventral vagal place before I do anything.
00:24:11.440 --> 00:24:12.319
It's that breath.
00:24:12.480 --> 00:24:15.359
Cam, what do you use to be able to do?
00:24:15.519 --> 00:24:16.000
Not that.
00:24:16.079 --> 00:24:16.960
Okay, right?
00:24:17.039 --> 00:24:17.200
Right?
00:24:17.279 --> 00:24:18.480
I mean, you gotta find what works for you.
00:24:18.640 --> 00:24:30.400
Yeah, I so for me, what happens when I get very activated is I don't realize it as it's happening, but I'm a I am and a somatic experiencer, right?
00:24:30.480 --> 00:24:38.160
But I get tense in my entire body, which usually leads to out like physical outbursts.
00:24:39.119 --> 00:24:46.720
But because I'm you know in that mode where I'm in survival mode, some of my fine motor stuff fails me.
00:24:47.039 --> 00:24:48.640
And then it snaps me out of it.
00:24:48.960 --> 00:24:51.359
And I'm like, oh my god, what what is going on here?
00:24:51.759 --> 00:24:53.440
And then I can observe it.
00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:57.039
But it usually ends with one big breath.
00:24:57.119 --> 00:24:59.119
Like, and I don't care, I don't do it on purpose.
00:24:59.200 --> 00:25:11.200
I catch myself like and then I was like, but then for me, I get into thought replacement because you we've talked about this a bunch of times.
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:15.039
You're an emotional thinker, and I'm a cognitive thinker.
00:25:15.279 --> 00:25:17.279
So mine goes into thought replacement.
00:25:17.440 --> 00:25:22.880
That's what brings me back to you know how this whole thing started.
00:25:23.119 --> 00:25:24.000
Thought replacement.
00:25:24.079 --> 00:25:26.480
So let's let's talk about thought replacement for a minute.
00:25:26.640 --> 00:25:35.920
Thought replacement is you have to identify the thoughts that are upholding the anger, right?
00:25:36.400 --> 00:25:44.319
And then once you can identify those thoughts, you can replace them with more rational or adaptive types of thinking.
00:25:44.559 --> 00:25:46.240
So let's bring this example.
00:25:46.319 --> 00:25:48.799
We talked about using this example this morning.
00:25:48.960 --> 00:25:52.319
There was a recent event with your motorcycle.
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:53.200
All right.
00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:54.559
So why don't you get into it?
00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:56.400
There's a perfect example of this.
00:25:56.960 --> 00:26:04.480
So the weather was nice a couple days ago, and I'm like, I'm gonna take my motorcycle to work today to sessions.
00:26:04.720 --> 00:26:05.759
It'll be Friday.
00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:06.799
It's a perfect day.
00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:10.000
It's beautiful out, it's very early spring.
00:26:10.240 --> 00:26:12.240
This is like a bonus day.
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:17.680
And I've I've had quite a few consecutive days in a row lately with everything going on.
00:26:17.759 --> 00:26:19.599
So I'm like, this will be a nice treat.
00:26:19.759 --> 00:26:25.599
So I went to the shop and I unwinterized it, so to speak, got it all.
00:26:25.759 --> 00:26:26.559
It was ready to go.
00:26:26.640 --> 00:26:30.480
It was running for 10 minutes, warmed up, ready to roll.
00:26:30.799 --> 00:26:35.200
I had to go back in and get ready for stuff and do other work things.
00:26:36.160 --> 00:26:38.960
And I had accidentally left the ignition.
00:26:39.119 --> 00:26:43.039
It was off, but the ignition on, so all of the lights were on.
00:26:43.279 --> 00:26:47.200
So I went about my morning unaware, went about my morning.
00:26:47.359 --> 00:26:55.119
About an hour and a half later, came out, you know, all ready to go to work, moved my truck to the back so I could drive right through.
00:26:57.119 --> 00:27:00.799
Opened up the door, all the lights were on.
00:27:01.119 --> 00:27:02.000
The motorcycle?
00:27:02.160 --> 00:27:04.160
All the motorcycle lights were on.
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:13.680
And like this feeling came over me, like, oh, I wonder if there's gonna be enough battery juice for it to start.
00:27:13.920 --> 00:27:14.640
What was that feeling?
00:27:15.119 --> 00:27:16.480
That's fear, yeah, right.
00:27:16.799 --> 00:27:18.799
Like it's you didn't know that in the moment.
00:27:18.960 --> 00:27:20.000
No, I didn't know this in the moment.
00:27:21.680 --> 00:27:24.960
This, yeah, after so now I'm like, okay.
00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:29.200
So I go, I go to start it.
00:27:29.440 --> 00:27:30.559
Click, click, click, click, click.
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:34.640
The typical noise it makes when there's not enough battery juice to start it.
00:27:35.599 --> 00:27:37.279
And now my fear.
00:27:38.720 --> 00:27:40.960
Well, I went straight to Agri.
00:27:41.440 --> 00:27:41.680
Yeah.
00:27:41.839 --> 00:27:42.000
Right.
00:27:43.039 --> 00:27:44.559
Oh my god, it's such a beautiful day out.
00:27:44.720 --> 00:28:00.880
Now I gotta just so I take my my briefcase off my shoulder, kinda toss it onto the couch over there in the shop, take my keys out of my jacket, throw them, right?
00:28:01.119 --> 00:28:02.720
Go to take my helmet off.
00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:05.839
Like I can feel my whole body is tensing up.
00:28:06.640 --> 00:28:12.880
Go to hang my helmet up, but again, for me, my fine motor skills kind of deplete.
00:28:13.119 --> 00:28:15.839
I go to hang my helmet up, I drop it.
00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:18.160
It doesn't hang up, I miss the hook.
00:28:18.400 --> 00:28:23.680
It drops, bam, onto the concrete floor, snaps me out of it.
00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:28.640
Like that that big noise snap, and I'm like, what am I doing?
00:28:30.079 --> 00:28:44.880
Like, okay, I just kind of took out my anger on the couch by whipping my keys at it, and now I just scuffed my helmet because I am not even in a place where I can comfortably hang a helmet on a hook.
00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:48.000
Like, what is going on here?
00:28:48.240 --> 00:28:55.279
And I noticed myself doing just automatically, you yeah, I didn't do it on purpose, it just happened.
00:28:55.440 --> 00:28:55.759
Right.
00:28:56.880 --> 00:29:03.599
But then when it came down to it, as I like thought about it, it was I I ran the movie back in my head.
00:29:03.920 --> 00:29:06.000
Which I guess is another coping skill, right?
00:29:06.240 --> 00:29:08.400
As you get through it, like run it back through your head.
00:29:08.480 --> 00:29:09.759
How did you get here?
00:29:10.240 --> 00:29:15.920
Is it just that you're angry because the weather's so nice and you your motorcycle doesn't work?
00:29:16.160 --> 00:29:23.599
Well, no, it was first the fear that the things that I guess before you do that, yeah, you you regulated yourself.
00:29:23.759 --> 00:29:27.680
So just talk about how you regulated yourself without knowing what you were doing.
00:29:27.920 --> 00:29:28.480
Yeah, okay.
00:29:28.559 --> 00:29:31.759
So well, I regulated myself by with that deep breath.
00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:38.319
With with the deep breath, and then I was like, oh well, I can just drive my truck.
00:29:38.880 --> 00:29:39.599
Right, right.
00:29:39.759 --> 00:29:40.000
Right.
00:29:40.240 --> 00:29:43.920
And then I I still have plenty of time.
00:29:44.160 --> 00:29:46.400
I'm not it's I'm not gonna be late.
00:29:46.720 --> 00:29:52.640
And then I'm like, oh well I it will take 15 minutes to put it on the tender.
00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:53.759
I can do that tomorrow.
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:55.599
Like I called myself, but that's for me.
00:29:56.000 --> 00:29:57.599
But you use thought replacement.
00:29:57.759 --> 00:29:58.880
And that's my style, right?
00:29:59.039 --> 00:30:01.599
Like this was unnecessary.
00:30:01.839 --> 00:30:06.160
Because you were what were you the thoughts that were upholding the anger were what?
00:30:08.400 --> 00:30:12.079
Well, the disappointment in what I did to myself by leaving the key.
00:30:12.400 --> 00:30:12.720
What was that?
00:30:12.799 --> 00:30:14.079
What did that sound like in there?
00:30:14.319 --> 00:30:15.279
What do you mean by that?
00:30:15.440 --> 00:30:17.200
Like, I can't believe that that I did this.
00:30:17.359 --> 00:30:18.640
What's why did I why didn't you?
00:30:18.799 --> 00:30:20.640
No, it wasn't I can't believe that I did it.
00:30:20.720 --> 00:30:23.920
It was that like calm down, just quit being so careless.
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:29.519
Before that, oh when you were thinking, when you were mad, when you were angry, what were all your thoughts?
00:30:29.839 --> 00:30:32.799
It was that this thing doesn't work and it's not gonna get me where I need to go.
00:30:33.440 --> 00:30:34.000
Keep going.
00:30:34.079 --> 00:30:34.480
What else?
00:30:34.559 --> 00:30:35.839
Right, what else were those thoughts?
00:30:36.079 --> 00:30:45.119
Well, and now I'm not gonna get to enjoy this beautiful day, and I really deserve this beautiful day because I've just put in 10 straight days of work without a single day of break, and I really needed this.
00:30:45.200 --> 00:30:47.759
I have to go work, I have to be there for these people.
00:30:48.079 --> 00:30:48.880
You can just hear it.
00:30:48.960 --> 00:30:51.039
I can hear the anger, like right.
00:30:51.279 --> 00:30:52.799
And so it's the thoughts.
00:30:53.119 --> 00:31:01.759
And now I'm not gonna get to do that, and I'm supposed to be honoring myself and doing self-call self-care and it's like I can't do any of it.
00:31:01.839 --> 00:31:03.839
Now I gotta ride in the stupid truck again.
00:31:04.079 --> 00:31:13.039
Yes, that was the thoughts that were upholding the anger that then led to you throwing those keys and and and the fine motor skills and all that stuff that you just talked about.
00:31:13.119 --> 00:31:22.400
Okay, so then you the helmet crashed, you snapped you out of it, you took a deep breath, and then you started to think what?
00:31:22.960 --> 00:31:33.920
Well, then I I mean, then I just I went to okay, I know, because of what I do for a living, that anger is a secondary emotion.
00:31:34.160 --> 00:31:34.640
Right.
00:31:34.960 --> 00:31:40.480
So what emotion was the anger defending me from?
00:31:40.799 --> 00:31:41.119
Okay.
00:31:42.400 --> 00:31:47.839
Now the Brett, as we went over it, I was like, well, the original one was the fear.
00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:55.119
When I walked in there and I was all ready, and then I saw the lights were on, I'm like, oh no, this is not gonna start.
00:31:56.160 --> 00:32:05.519
And then it was getting on it and going to do it, and then it was oh my gosh, now my fears are coming true.
00:32:06.079 --> 00:32:13.680
And then, you know, I was disappointed ultimately, right?
00:32:13.759 --> 00:32:16.000
Like I did this, I took time this morning.
00:32:16.160 --> 00:32:22.160
I tried to do well by myself, I tried to do these things, and then I was careless.
00:32:23.119 --> 00:32:30.960
So now I'm disappointed in myself, and then it really didn't start, so now I'm disappointed in the machine.
00:32:32.480 --> 00:32:35.119
So now I have disappointments and fears.
00:32:35.440 --> 00:32:38.880
Yes, and then the way that you But those are those are those are primary.
00:32:39.039 --> 00:32:48.319
Oh my gosh, totally, and then I but I didn't go and like acknowledge my disappointment in myself or say to myself I should be more careful.
00:32:48.559 --> 00:32:53.119
I instantly went to throw my bag, throw my keys, drop my helmet.
00:32:53.359 --> 00:33:01.920
But then, okay, but then until I didn't, but then the helmet dropped, and then you got into a different thought process, okay?
00:33:02.000 --> 00:33:03.839
Because you went, Oh my gosh, why am I being angry?
00:33:03.920 --> 00:33:04.960
I know this is secondary.
00:33:05.119 --> 00:33:07.519
Yeah, well, no, I didn't go there right away.
00:33:07.680 --> 00:33:07.920
Okay.
00:33:08.079 --> 00:33:09.519
I didn't go there right away.
00:33:09.759 --> 00:33:11.440
That came afterwards.
00:33:11.680 --> 00:33:17.279
Because first for me, because I'm the cognitive person, I had to go, okay, it's okay.
00:33:17.519 --> 00:33:19.599
I still got time, I'm not gonna be late.
00:33:19.759 --> 00:33:20.480
The truck's right there.
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:21.279
I'll just get in there.
00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:23.039
Like so, what were you soothing?
00:33:23.279 --> 00:33:24.799
Oh, I was soothing my disappointment.
00:33:25.039 --> 00:33:25.680
Yes, yeah, okay.
00:33:25.839 --> 00:33:26.079
For sure.
00:33:26.319 --> 00:33:29.440
So you just did it so quickly and you didn't stay in anger very long.
00:33:29.519 --> 00:33:30.319
You didn't stop around.
00:33:30.960 --> 00:33:35.119
I probably would have if I wouldn't have done, and then also realized now I have to buff my helmet.
00:33:35.519 --> 00:33:39.359
You immediately, very quickly, in a matter of maybe five minutes or less.
00:33:39.599 --> 00:33:43.119
Not there was no, it was on it was probably in a 90 seconds.
00:33:43.440 --> 00:33:45.359
Your nervous system went up into anger.
00:33:45.920 --> 00:33:46.799
But that's okay.
00:33:47.039 --> 00:33:50.720
Totally, because it actually allowed me to process the rest of it.
00:33:50.960 --> 00:33:51.680
It was beautiful.
00:33:52.079 --> 00:33:58.480
What you did was beautiful, and you're and you're by yourself, alone in the garage, okay, having this whole experience with yourself.
00:33:58.720 --> 00:34:04.160
You and then later on, we this morning we kind of even went deeper into exactly what what went went well.
00:34:04.240 --> 00:34:05.279
What did you do well?
00:34:05.519 --> 00:34:08.000
Well, no, there's a part where it actually went worse first.
00:34:08.320 --> 00:34:09.599
Where did it go worst?
00:34:09.920 --> 00:34:15.280
So as I'm driving, I I get in the car and I just like I'm like, okay, I gotta go.
00:34:15.599 --> 00:34:28.960
Like, and I'm driving, and I'm probably five or six minutes into you know the 25-minute drive, and it's and I have my windows down because it's still beautiful outside.
00:34:29.039 --> 00:34:32.880
I have the windows down and uh Spotify going, music playing whatever I want.
00:34:33.039 --> 00:34:42.159
I'm having a great drive, but then it sprinkles just a little bit of rain spray, like not enough to even really need the windshield wipers till it was done.
00:34:42.239 --> 00:34:44.880
It's kind of like one of those sunny rain sprinkles.
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:55.840
The first thing that goes to my head is, oh thank see, it's a good thing that I didn't ride my motorcycle because otherwise I'd be polishing chrome tonight.
00:34:56.000 --> 00:34:57.599
So I still had to justify.
00:34:57.679 --> 00:34:59.440
So yes, I came down.
00:34:59.920 --> 00:35:01.679
But you were using a reframing there.
00:35:02.239 --> 00:35:05.199
I was, but I wasn't proud of that.
00:35:05.760 --> 00:35:12.719
But again, it's one of those things where like we can't control what comes in, we can only deal with it, right?
00:35:12.880 --> 00:35:15.760
Like that was to me, that was not my finest moment.
00:35:15.920 --> 00:35:21.440
Trying to justify what was my disappointment into now a success.
00:35:21.599 --> 00:35:24.079
It's like you were attempting to soothe yourself.
00:35:24.239 --> 00:35:25.679
I was still attempting to soothe myself.
00:35:25.920 --> 00:35:30.880
And you you did actually, I would say, a pretty stellar job of that because you didn't remain angry.
00:35:31.119 --> 00:35:31.599
I didn't.
00:35:31.760 --> 00:35:33.519
You calmed your body down, right?
00:35:33.679 --> 00:35:35.280
You got in the truck, you adjusted.
00:35:35.519 --> 00:35:42.400
I adjusted, but then I had to like still prove it to myself, which wasn't great, but I I I I actually did laugh that one off.
00:35:42.719 --> 00:35:48.320
Upon reflection, though, this is where you're gonna get more control, right?
00:35:48.480 --> 00:35:48.880
Yes.
00:35:49.119 --> 00:35:56.800
Is you reflect on what layers you have inside of you that get that are part of that triggered angry response.
00:35:57.039 --> 00:36:08.320
The more you go inside, the more you look at where your own layers are, what your own hurt is, what gets triggered, what pain gets triggered when and what drives that anger, okay?
00:36:08.880 --> 00:36:10.480
The more control you have.
00:36:10.639 --> 00:36:14.000
The only thing we can control is ourselves.
00:36:14.239 --> 00:36:16.320
So when you Well, the action of ourselves.
00:36:17.039 --> 00:36:22.079
Yes, and and our own emotions, we can soothe our own emotions once that the idea.
00:36:22.480 --> 00:36:23.440
But that's still the action.
00:36:23.519 --> 00:36:28.719
We can't necessarily control the emotion, but we can true control the soothing of it, which is the action.
00:36:29.039 --> 00:36:29.519
Absolutely.
00:36:29.679 --> 00:36:30.000
Okay.
00:36:30.480 --> 00:36:43.760
That is the only thing in this entire world that we can control, yet so often we are negligent of ourselves and our own experience in a in an exchange with someone or something in the world.
00:36:44.079 --> 00:36:45.679
Or even ourselves in this case.
00:36:45.920 --> 00:36:46.320
Well, yeah.
00:36:46.400 --> 00:36:47.199
Well, right.
00:36:47.360 --> 00:36:48.960
You had this own experience, right?
00:36:49.039 --> 00:36:50.480
And it was you and the motorcycle.
00:36:50.559 --> 00:36:50.719
Yeah.
00:36:50.880 --> 00:36:51.119
Right.
00:36:51.280 --> 00:37:08.320
And and you were thrown around, you know, you you had a moment, which is it's it takes a lot of competence to own and security in oneself, to own when we get angry, be okay with that, and then be able to work through what is driving it, right?
00:37:08.480 --> 00:37:11.360
That takes a lot of security internally to do that.
00:37:11.519 --> 00:37:18.960
So there's a big kudos to you to be able to do that and take that moment to step aside and look, okay, wait, what went on inside of me?
00:37:19.039 --> 00:37:21.280
And it might be different for everybody, right?
00:37:21.440 --> 00:37:22.880
I know my trigger points.
00:37:22.960 --> 00:37:27.360
I know now because I practice what I preach as much as I can.
00:37:27.519 --> 00:37:29.280
I'm so not perfect at it.
00:37:29.599 --> 00:37:42.480
But to what works for me, the skills that work for me, and like we're kind of developing sort of a step-by-step process here when we can first, I guess the first step when we're angry is to observe that we're angry.
00:37:42.719 --> 00:37:44.400
Notice when we're angry for you in that moment.
00:37:44.800 --> 00:37:47.360
Yeah, but that comes in hindsight fully.
00:37:47.599 --> 00:38:05.280
Like in my case, I didn't know I was until what was happening to me created that noise that popped me out of it so that I could observe, you know, like either whether it's a hindsight thing or a mirroring image, or even a third-person view.
00:38:05.760 --> 00:38:06.480
You're absolutely correct.
00:38:06.639 --> 00:38:09.280
It's gonna happen in hindsight, right?
00:38:09.360 --> 00:38:18.000
It's after the big blowout with your spouse or after you yell at somebody or overexpress it, or even if you're under an underexpressor, right?
00:38:18.079 --> 00:38:22.800
Like you are avoiding, you know, dinner time with your family.
00:38:22.960 --> 00:38:36.239
And it's like, wait a minute, let me observe my avoidance of hanging out with my family, or let me observe what just happened after I yelled at my daughter, right?
00:38:36.639 --> 00:38:41.519
It's like we're trying to we get into a place in hindsight, it'll happen first.
00:38:41.599 --> 00:38:47.199
And then in hindsight, we're brave enough and courageous enough to look at wait a minute, what happened here?
00:38:47.360 --> 00:38:49.280
Let me unfold what happened here.
00:38:49.519 --> 00:38:49.760
Right.
00:38:49.840 --> 00:38:54.559
But in order to do that, you got to use that very simple coping skill of like the pause or the timeout.
00:38:54.960 --> 00:38:55.119
True.
00:38:55.199 --> 00:39:01.039
So the first step, the first step is to observe that and identify that I'm angry, right?
00:39:01.280 --> 00:39:02.559
And then call a timeout.
00:39:03.199 --> 00:39:04.480
Call a pause on yourself.
00:39:04.639 --> 00:39:04.960
Yes.
00:39:05.119 --> 00:39:05.360
Right?
00:39:05.519 --> 00:39:05.760
Yes.
00:39:05.840 --> 00:39:16.800
And so when I'm working with a member of uh of a couple, okay, and they're telling me, you know, I mean, relationships are the number one reason why people come to therapy, at least in my experience.
00:39:17.039 --> 00:39:25.440
Yeah, so yeah, maybe not both of them, but the distress they get from relationships might even bring them to individual.
00:39:25.920 --> 00:39:26.320
Yeah.
00:39:26.639 --> 00:39:26.880
Right?
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:28.000
Would you would you agree with that?
00:39:28.239 --> 00:39:28.639
Yeah, yeah.
00:39:28.800 --> 00:39:34.400
So and it doesn't have to be personal relationship, it could just be relationships, whether it's work or people or whatever it is.
00:39:34.719 --> 00:39:35.840
Yes, absolutely.
00:39:36.000 --> 00:39:39.519
I think that's what drives, you know, I'm I'm worried about my kids.
00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:44.159
I get overwhelmed at work, be when my boss does this thing.
00:39:44.400 --> 00:40:00.639
You know, it's it's about someone or something, it's about the the exchange between self and someone else that often and repet and it's a it's a pattern of and it causes anxiety, it causes anger, it causes depression, it causes something inside that person.
00:40:01.119 --> 00:40:03.199
Sometimes all of those in the same day.
00:40:03.519 --> 00:40:05.280
That distress, right?
00:40:05.440 --> 00:40:06.480
So what I say to people.
00:40:06.960 --> 00:40:11.199
Or then it also, those things also cause use disorders.
00:40:11.519 --> 00:40:12.000
Oh, yeah.
00:40:12.239 --> 00:40:12.400
Right?
00:40:12.480 --> 00:40:12.719
Yes.
00:40:13.360 --> 00:40:16.079
So all of these are what bring people eventually too.
00:40:16.559 --> 00:40:17.440
Absolutely.
00:40:17.840 --> 00:40:24.880
So then what I say to that member of that couple is you've got to instead of once you can observe this anger, right?
00:40:25.039 --> 00:40:26.159
You've got to time out.
00:40:26.320 --> 00:40:27.760
Oh my gosh, I'm angry.
00:40:28.079 --> 00:40:35.840
This argument is only going to get way worse if I don't if I don't do something about this this anger that I'm experiencing.
00:40:36.079 --> 00:40:41.440
So I'm gonna look at my spouse or my my partner and I'm gonna give them the timeout signal.
00:40:41.599 --> 00:40:45.840
And I would say to them, you know, tell your partner ahead of time that you're gonna do this.
00:40:46.000 --> 00:40:51.599
That when you feel yourself ramping up, I'm because I love you and because I love our relationship.
00:40:52.159 --> 00:40:55.840
And because the loudest and last opinion doesn't win.
00:40:56.159 --> 00:40:57.119
Yeah, that's right.
00:40:57.599 --> 00:40:58.000
That's right.
00:40:58.159 --> 00:40:58.639
Fair enough.
00:40:58.880 --> 00:41:02.000
I don't want to cause pain to our relationship, so I'm gonna time out.
00:41:02.159 --> 00:41:08.159
Now the other partner could could feel like that's an abandonment, like that's you running away, and and you're being very clear.
00:41:08.320 --> 00:41:09.599
I'm not running away.
00:41:09.760 --> 00:41:11.519
I'm just putting a timeout on this.
00:41:11.599 --> 00:41:14.239
I need a moment to regulate my body, myself.
00:41:14.639 --> 00:41:17.920
The timeout is not, or the pause is not that this is over.
00:41:18.320 --> 00:41:21.599
It's that it to be continued.
00:41:21.760 --> 00:41:22.559
Just give me a minute.
00:41:22.800 --> 00:41:28.079
I gotta regulate because I'm in sympathetic right now, and nothing, I'm not in this will go, yeah.
00:41:28.239 --> 00:41:30.320
This will go nowhere if we continue.
00:41:30.559 --> 00:41:31.920
And and I'm gonna do that.
00:41:32.000 --> 00:41:32.239
Okay.
00:41:32.320 --> 00:41:35.199
So then step one is to observe that you're angry and then time out.
00:41:35.280 --> 00:41:38.480
Get out of that stressful situation and get to a quiet space.
00:41:38.719 --> 00:41:48.079
Go that might, and if you're somebody that needs to walk or move, right, go for a walk, go for a drive, you know, unless you're totally raging out, then don't get behind the wheel.
00:41:48.320 --> 00:41:52.880
Yeah, but to be fair, you have to afford this same opportunity to the other person.
00:41:53.119 --> 00:41:53.440
Yes.
00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:54.559
Oh gosh, yes.
00:41:54.639 --> 00:41:57.039
Yeah, it can't just be that one-way street, right?
00:41:57.360 --> 00:42:04.400
So that would be the first step is to observe, identify that you're angry, and get yourself to a quiet spot.
00:42:04.639 --> 00:42:04.960
Okay.
00:42:05.679 --> 00:42:08.880
Then step two is to be able to calm that anger down.
00:42:08.960 --> 00:42:10.800
Now, with me, one breath doesn't cut it.
00:42:10.880 --> 00:42:23.599
If I'm angry, if I get to a place where I'm angry, I need to spend it takes me at least five minutes, 10 minutes to regulate that anger and move myself from sympathetic to ventral vagal.
00:42:23.760 --> 00:42:25.119
You can do it a lot faster.
00:42:25.280 --> 00:42:27.760
You can state shift much faster than I can.
00:42:28.000 --> 00:42:28.800
I do, yeah.
00:42:29.039 --> 00:42:36.639
So I, me, I need to remove myself from the situation and then do step two, which is to calm that anger down.
00:42:36.719 --> 00:42:40.320
And what works for me is deep breathing.
00:42:40.400 --> 00:42:49.760
Like I had said, that yoga breathing gets me to state change from that sympathetic place in my autonomic nervous system to ventral vagal where I can be curious now.
00:42:50.159 --> 00:42:52.639
And that's my that's the second step.
00:42:52.800 --> 00:42:53.119
Okay.
00:42:53.679 --> 00:43:01.440
The third step is to be able to identify the emotions that are driving that anger response.
00:43:01.679 --> 00:43:05.440
So for me, I use something called starfish.
00:43:05.679 --> 00:43:10.960
And starfish is laying yourself out in an open position.
00:43:11.519 --> 00:43:14.000
And I feel things very somatically.
00:43:14.079 --> 00:43:18.559
I can feel things quickly in my body, and that's why that this works for me.
00:43:18.719 --> 00:43:20.559
So you got to find something that works for you.
00:43:20.719 --> 00:43:32.719
This is just another coping skill or another example of being able to do what happens in step three, which is to calm and soothe that painful emotion, right?
00:43:32.800 --> 00:43:44.559
Like we talked about, painful emotions are worthlessness, powerlessness, helplessness, shame, fear, all that, which are all part of our human experience, right?
00:43:44.800 --> 00:43:47.280
That's all part of the human experience.
00:43:47.840 --> 00:43:52.159
So we we need to be able to soothe and calm those emotions.
00:43:52.320 --> 00:43:58.880
So starfish allows me to go into my body, and my body tells me where the pain is sitting.
00:43:58.960 --> 00:43:59.760
Now, I may not know what.
00:44:00.239 --> 00:44:01.039
Kind of pain yet.
00:44:01.119 --> 00:44:02.559
I have to be curious about that.
00:44:02.800 --> 00:44:08.239
But it usually shows up in my core, my chest, my stomach, my lower stomach.
00:44:08.559 --> 00:44:17.280
And now I'm in starfish, laid out flat on the bed or the floor, and I'm watching my body in relationship to whatever just happened.
00:44:17.440 --> 00:44:20.320
And I'm curious about what I'm what my anger is protecting.
00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:21.280
That's my keyword.
00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:23.280
What is my anger protecting?
00:44:23.440 --> 00:44:25.920
And that usually shows up in my body then.
00:44:26.000 --> 00:44:30.000
And then I can identify it as whatever painful emotion it is.
00:44:30.320 --> 00:44:30.639
Okay.
00:44:30.960 --> 00:44:36.960
And then once I'm there, I'm usually pretty calm then by the time I get to that point.
00:44:37.119 --> 00:44:38.239
I might cry, right?
00:44:38.400 --> 00:44:39.119
I might be feeling.
00:44:39.199 --> 00:44:42.320
Now I let myself, I create space for that emotion.
00:44:42.559 --> 00:44:46.320
I let myself cry and release whatever that is.
00:44:46.559 --> 00:44:48.800
Or I let myself feel it.
00:44:48.880 --> 00:44:50.559
I'm not afraid of feeling that anymore.
00:44:50.639 --> 00:44:51.199
I used to be.
00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:54.400
I let myself feel that painful feeling.
00:44:54.559 --> 00:45:01.199
And what often happens is that adaptive material comes in and it really just calms it down.
00:45:01.360 --> 00:45:07.519
Adaptive material, meaning, let's say, like I remember a time where we got into a really, really big fight.
00:45:07.679 --> 00:45:09.599
I got and I acted horrendously.
00:45:09.760 --> 00:45:10.639
I was very angry.
00:45:10.719 --> 00:45:12.079
I yelled and screamed at you.
00:45:12.239 --> 00:45:14.960
And I went upstairs and I found myself doing this.
00:45:15.199 --> 00:45:22.159
And when I got to like the deep pain, whatever that was, I think it was, I think it was a powerlessness feeling.
00:45:23.039 --> 00:45:28.960
What the adaptive material that came in was that my husband's not trying to make me feel powerless.
00:45:29.199 --> 00:45:32.559
It's his own defensive action because he's hurt too.
00:45:32.719 --> 00:45:35.440
He's just as in as much pain as I am.
00:45:35.679 --> 00:45:38.000
So I need to communicate that to him.
00:45:38.159 --> 00:45:41.920
He didn't, you know, he doesn't know how much pain I'm in.
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:44.719
All he sees is that I'm angry and I'm attacking.
00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:48.559
So then that's gonna then make him want to attack, right?
00:45:48.639 --> 00:45:49.679
And and get defensive.
00:45:50.000 --> 00:45:51.280
Yeah, and I'm bigger and stronger.
00:45:51.360 --> 00:45:55.519
So I'm gonna get even more angry because that's gonna defend me from you.
00:45:55.760 --> 00:45:56.239
Exactly.
00:45:56.480 --> 00:45:59.840
So my control and power is to be able to feel my feeling.
00:45:59.920 --> 00:46:02.239
And as I do that, adaptive material comes in.
00:46:02.320 --> 00:46:03.840
I know my husband loves me.
00:46:04.079 --> 00:46:07.039
I know he's he's not gonna do any harmful thing to me.
00:46:07.199 --> 00:46:08.480
He's in pain too.
00:46:08.639 --> 00:46:10.559
Oh my goodness, light bulb went off.
00:46:10.719 --> 00:46:11.039
Okay.
00:46:11.360 --> 00:46:17.280
So then I go to step four, which is to create an I statement.
00:46:17.440 --> 00:46:18.960
So let's talk about I statements.
00:46:19.039 --> 00:46:22.639
The I statements are something that are always talked about in couples therapy sessions, right?
00:46:22.719 --> 00:46:32.239
An I statement is a clear statement that you say to your partner that identifies what it is that your emotion, your painful emotion is.
00:46:32.480 --> 00:46:33.199
Not angry.
00:46:33.280 --> 00:46:33.519
Okay.
00:46:33.679 --> 00:46:35.920
It's it's doing the work to be able to get to this point.
00:46:36.000 --> 00:46:37.440
This is step four, right?
00:46:37.679 --> 00:46:41.840
Is I'm putting that in step three, identified the painful emotion.
00:46:41.920 --> 00:46:49.440
Now, step four, I'm using that identification of that emotion to create this I statement, which involves three things.
00:46:49.679 --> 00:46:55.920
One, sharing the painful emotion that your spouse's or partner's behavior caused you.
00:46:57.199 --> 00:47:05.440
Two is to be able to identify what exact behavior that your partner engaged in that caused you to feel this way.
00:47:05.679 --> 00:47:12.159
And step three is or component three is to identify what you need moving forward.
00:47:12.320 --> 00:47:12.639
Okay.
00:47:12.880 --> 00:47:16.480
So you got to get all those components together into an I statement.
00:47:16.719 --> 00:47:24.559
So it might be I feel powerless when you yell this thing at me, when you yell at me.
00:47:24.880 --> 00:47:34.480
I need you to be able to calmly express how you're feeling and what your pain is so that we can work together so that we're not hurting one another, right?
00:47:34.639 --> 00:47:36.480
So I got to formulate that I statement.
00:47:36.559 --> 00:47:44.320
And then step five is to be able to bring that I statement to my partner when and in knowing and being timely about it.
00:47:44.480 --> 00:47:47.119
I can't do it when I know he's still fuming, right?
00:47:47.280 --> 00:47:48.960
Although you stay changed pretty quick.
00:47:49.039 --> 00:47:51.519
Usually that can be in a matter of 30 minutes, right?
00:47:51.840 --> 00:47:57.679
So I have to choose my time and the way I'm gonna express this, and it's vulnerable, right?
00:47:57.760 --> 00:48:01.199
I'm telling him that I feel something really vulnerable.
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:02.400
It's a painful experience.
00:48:02.480 --> 00:48:08.239
And I'm asking for him to do something more gentle with my painful experiences next time.
00:48:08.400 --> 00:48:14.800
I want him to join me in that and help me in that moment rather than being defensive himself.
00:48:14.880 --> 00:48:26.639
And I'm taking ownership of the fact that if I keep being angry in those situations, I will never get what I want, which is to join my husband and connect with him when I'm in pain.
00:48:26.880 --> 00:48:28.800
Or about whatever we were talking about.
00:48:29.039 --> 00:48:34.159
I don't very rarely do we remember the nature of what we're arguing about, right?
00:48:34.320 --> 00:48:36.639
It's the absolute Well, we lose cognition.
00:48:36.880 --> 00:48:38.239
Of course, right?
00:48:38.639 --> 00:48:40.320
So so those are the four steps.
00:48:40.400 --> 00:48:41.199
Let's re let's reveal.
00:48:41.360 --> 00:48:42.320
Well, then the fifth one is to show.
00:48:42.880 --> 00:48:44.079
I'm sorry, the five the five steps.
00:48:44.239 --> 00:48:49.920
The fifth step is to sit down at a timely moment and be able to express that I statement.
00:48:50.239 --> 00:48:53.679
And you know that your spouse or partner can receive that.
00:48:53.840 --> 00:49:04.159
And oftentimes in in therapy, right, we're talking about is your partner ready to create that space for that vulnerable, those vulnerable emotions to be shared?
00:49:04.320 --> 00:49:10.480
And if the answer is no, then I will we'll talk about maybe we don't do step five just yet.
00:49:10.639 --> 00:49:12.400
Let's practice one through four.
00:49:12.559 --> 00:49:18.880
And when your if and when your partner is ready, then we can do step five.
00:49:20.320 --> 00:49:20.639
Right.
00:49:20.800 --> 00:49:26.079
Yeah, and it it's not that they have to be completely calmed down and moved on either.
00:49:26.320 --> 00:49:28.239
They just have to be ready enough.
00:49:28.480 --> 00:49:28.719
Yeah.
00:49:28.960 --> 00:49:32.719
Like we talk about enough in lots of different cases, right?
00:49:33.119 --> 00:49:42.159
Because hearing that I statement is usually very powerful for the recipient as well.
00:49:42.400 --> 00:49:48.159
It allows them to own the part their contribution to the distress.
00:49:48.960 --> 00:49:57.920
It also allows them to, if they haven't done the work that you just did in creating, you just went one through four and then you delivered five.
00:49:58.239 --> 00:50:11.440
If I haven't quite got there yet, I might have calmed down or stay-changed, but if I didn't actually address them, it's kind of going to that portion of underneath the ice, the tip of the iceberg, right?
00:50:11.519 --> 00:50:16.239
It just gets sacked away into the stuffed thing or the harboring, yeah.
00:50:16.719 --> 00:50:17.679
Which isn't good.
00:50:17.920 --> 00:50:19.840
The harboring also isn't great.
00:50:21.599 --> 00:50:29.519
But by sharing that, that brings like, oh you just were vulnerable with me and shared something with me.
00:50:29.840 --> 00:50:34.000
I, in fact, now this is a safe place for me to maybe do it as well.
00:50:34.480 --> 00:50:35.440
That's where connections are.
00:50:35.679 --> 00:50:48.400
Because, like we like we had talked about, in most cases, anger as a secondary emotion is keep protecting us from our primary emotion, which often has something to do with being disconnected.
00:50:48.719 --> 00:50:49.199
Yes.
00:50:49.599 --> 00:50:52.000
Which comes from not being vulnerable.
00:50:52.719 --> 00:50:58.880
So it also is helpful in that it's disarming that protective emotion.
00:50:59.039 --> 00:50:59.599
Yes.
00:51:00.079 --> 00:51:02.320
And allowing maybe the other person to join you.
00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:03.599
And you can feel it out.
00:51:03.679 --> 00:51:07.920
You don't have to completely abandon the idea of sharing it.
00:51:09.199 --> 00:51:11.039
They just have to be ready enough.
00:51:11.360 --> 00:51:12.320
I love that.
00:51:12.800 --> 00:51:15.599
And if they're not, you can bail on it.
00:51:15.679 --> 00:51:17.440
There's no point in starting this all over again.
00:51:17.679 --> 00:51:23.760
You have time out as a coping skill now, call the time out again and go about it.
00:51:23.840 --> 00:51:24.639
You've already done your work.
00:51:24.719 --> 00:51:26.079
Now it's up to the other person.
00:51:26.400 --> 00:51:26.719
Yeah.
00:51:27.199 --> 00:51:27.920
You're ready for it.
00:51:28.000 --> 00:51:29.599
You already have it in your pocket.
00:51:30.400 --> 00:51:43.519
And being realistic about whether or not your partner doing this is basically playing out you creating space for your own emotions, your own pain, your own painful emotions.
00:51:43.599 --> 00:51:44.400
You're creating space.
00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:49.119
In that starfish, I'm creating space for my negative emotion.
00:51:49.199 --> 00:51:50.960
They're hard to feel, but I'm feeling them.
00:51:51.039 --> 00:51:55.039
I'm teaching myself that, and I'm pairing safety with that, right?
00:51:55.119 --> 00:52:01.519
I'm feeling those feelings, and I am creating my own space internally for those negative emotions.
00:52:01.679 --> 00:52:07.760
And as I do that, those emotions desensitize and I get on the other side of them, right?
00:52:07.840 --> 00:52:17.519
I'm able to stay in ventral veigle, feel those feelings, and now I get to decide how I want to meet my need that the feelings are telling me that I have.
00:52:18.079 --> 00:52:22.000
And that is, I would say, the ultimate control that we have.
00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:37.760
So if your partner cannot have space internally for their own emotional responses and reactions, their own feelings, how on earth are we going to expect that partner to hold space for your feelings?
00:52:37.920 --> 00:52:40.159
They can't hold space for their own feelings.
00:52:40.239 --> 00:52:43.920
So pay attention to what we're expecting from our partners, right?
00:52:44.079 --> 00:52:51.840
It's like if our partner hasn't done that work and they have their own history of trauma and pain that they're reacting out of.
00:52:51.920 --> 00:52:53.840
And now you're going to put on top of that.
00:52:54.000 --> 00:52:56.880
Now you need to, now you need to quell my emotions too.
00:52:57.199 --> 00:53:00.239
Well, how about if you can't do it for yourself?
00:53:00.400 --> 00:53:03.039
Why how can you expect your partner to do it for you?
00:53:03.199 --> 00:53:05.119
That even goes one step below it.
00:53:05.599 --> 00:53:05.840
Yeah.
00:53:05.920 --> 00:53:08.000
So pay so it's like we're just breaking this down.
00:53:08.079 --> 00:53:33.360
We're bringing it to a deeper place, like we do, and understanding what we're actually asking our partner to do when we're yelling and screaming at them and telling them that they're not good partners, when we ourselves aren't taking responsibility for our own emotional pain and being able to do something more rational with it, communicate it in such a way where it's not going to trigger the other person as you're doing it.
00:53:33.519 --> 00:53:35.679
How are you working against yourself?
00:53:35.840 --> 00:53:48.880
Is really the, and you'll you'll see, you'll begin to see that if you follow these steps and be able to tie that time out and that state change from sympathetic to ventral vagal is super key.
00:53:48.960 --> 00:54:00.559
So let's just take a minute or two to talk about some other skills that we can utilize when we are able to identify that we're angry and we're insympathetic and we time out.
00:54:00.639 --> 00:54:01.440
Now what do we do?
00:54:01.679 --> 00:54:02.079
Right?
00:54:02.320 --> 00:54:08.480
Some other skills that we can engage in are um I'm drawn to polyvagal theory, right?
00:54:08.559 --> 00:54:09.599
And the and those things.
00:54:09.920 --> 00:54:11.599
I'm drawn to just screaming out loud.
00:54:11.679 --> 00:54:12.320
Yeah.
00:54:12.559 --> 00:54:16.079
Well, well, and and sometimes you might need to to yell and scream, right?
00:54:16.159 --> 00:54:19.119
Like screaming and No, no, I don't, yeah, I don't even mean at somebody.
00:54:19.199 --> 00:54:21.199
Just ah releasing it.
00:54:21.360 --> 00:54:25.119
Yeah, there's that that idea of release where you intensify your body.
00:54:25.360 --> 00:54:33.840
Because that's a polyvagal skill too, like with it the shaking or the tensing up, like tensing up everything to calm to come back down.
00:54:34.000 --> 00:54:34.559
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:54:34.800 --> 00:54:36.159
Screaming out loud is one of them.
00:54:36.400 --> 00:54:37.280
You can scream out loud.
00:54:38.000 --> 00:54:42.960
I would I would argue that that could that could release that you gotta work on, you gotta know what works for you.
00:54:43.119 --> 00:54:44.880
Yeah, it's not for everybody.
00:54:45.119 --> 00:54:46.400
It could it does release.
00:54:46.480 --> 00:54:52.320
Like if I if I give out a giant Gultural scream into my pillow, I'm gonna feel release.
00:54:52.559 --> 00:54:55.519
I'm gonna, I personally will feel kind of tired, right?
00:54:55.920 --> 00:54:58.800
You know, and it's gonna, it's gonna help me move, right?
00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:02.960
But for some people, it might make them feel more angry.
00:55:03.199 --> 00:55:06.400
Okay, so you gotta find out what works for you.
00:55:06.639 --> 00:55:09.280
Shaking, like shaking the whole body, right?
00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:19.360
Like this is derived from like if you watch a gazelle in the wild after just being chased by a lion, after it's if it got out of the jaws of the lion, okay, and the lion gives up.
00:55:19.519 --> 00:55:22.880
What that gazelle does is it shakes vigorously.
00:55:23.039 --> 00:55:30.639
And what that shaking is doing is returning them back to a place of ventral vagal because five minutes later, they're back to grazing, right?
00:55:31.119 --> 00:55:35.039
They can they just go right from flight to calm, right?
00:55:35.119 --> 00:55:39.039
They join back with their herd and they're back chilling, eating whatever they're eating, you know?
00:55:39.199 --> 00:55:42.559
And it's like, wow, we can take a lesson from these animals, right?
00:55:43.199 --> 00:55:51.519
And so shaking, shaking visit, I mean, it's a little weird, but it's a physical if you're kind of a somatic person or you really like exercise, right?
00:55:51.599 --> 00:56:02.400
You like to to go for a run or a dog, which is another way, if that works for you, to really just you know, like really blow out all that extra energy that you get when you're angry.
00:56:02.639 --> 00:56:06.000
Well, and you had brought up the idea of like feeling exhausted from it.
00:56:06.159 --> 00:56:06.559
Yeah.
00:56:06.800 --> 00:56:08.400
Allowing yourself to yawn.
00:56:08.639 --> 00:56:09.360
Yes, right?
00:56:09.519 --> 00:56:10.960
Like don't fighting the yawning.
00:56:11.119 --> 00:56:13.199
Yawning is extremely regulating.
00:56:13.519 --> 00:56:15.599
Really, like dogs will yawn when they're stressed.
00:56:15.840 --> 00:56:16.079
Yeah.
00:56:16.320 --> 00:56:16.559
You know?
00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:18.559
It's not they're tired, it's they're stressed.
00:56:18.719 --> 00:56:21.440
Yes, like they're at the vet and they keep yawning and yawning and yawning.
00:56:21.519 --> 00:56:28.559
What they're doing is trying to downregulate their nervous system because they're feeling, you know, in that sympathetic place.
00:56:28.880 --> 00:56:41.840
So, you know, there's a myriad of different skills that you can utilize to be able to calm that body down and get yourself into ventral vagal, and you've got to find out, and it is it isn't, hey partner, calm me down.
00:56:42.079 --> 00:56:44.000
Hey, partner, you did this wrong thing to me.
00:56:44.079 --> 00:56:47.119
It's your responsibility to hug me, right?
00:56:47.199 --> 00:56:53.599
If you're if you need a hug, okay, from your partner while he's angry, okay?
00:56:54.000 --> 00:56:55.599
Like, and you're looking for that.
00:56:55.679 --> 00:56:58.719
I'm looking for and that's the only thing that's gonna make this better.
00:56:58.880 --> 00:57:00.719
Like, you probably need some better internal resources.
00:57:00.880 --> 00:57:06.639
You gotta diversify your internal resources because that's not a realistic expectation, right?
00:57:07.039 --> 00:57:08.480
So, what are those things?
00:57:08.800 --> 00:57:10.639
But maybe hugging the dog would be.
00:57:10.800 --> 00:57:12.079
Yeah, right?
00:57:12.400 --> 00:57:12.960
I love that.
00:57:13.119 --> 00:57:25.119
Hugging your dog or cat, going for a walk, going for a run, um, yawning, deep breathing, you know, any present mo that the one nostril breathing.
00:57:25.519 --> 00:57:27.440
Yeah, oh yes, that one's really beautiful.
00:57:27.760 --> 00:57:28.239
That's it.
00:57:28.719 --> 00:57:34.159
It's kind of difficult to explain, but like you take your thumb and you like I'm right-handed.
00:57:34.320 --> 00:57:41.119
So I would take my right hand up, my right thumb up, and I'd pinch my right nostril and I'd breathe in.
00:57:41.280 --> 00:57:43.599
But I'd breathe in from my left nostril.
00:57:43.840 --> 00:57:48.639
Then I'd take my right index finger, pinch my left nostril, and breathe out.
00:57:48.800 --> 00:57:55.840
But all of it is taking place with one nostril at a time, only using your thumb and your index finger and one nostril at a time.
00:57:56.079 --> 00:57:57.760
It's surprisingly calming.
00:57:57.840 --> 00:58:00.960
I when I first read it, I'm like, no, come on, you gotta be kidding me.
00:58:01.599 --> 00:58:02.960
But for me, it works.
00:58:03.119 --> 00:58:03.440
Yeah.
00:58:04.159 --> 00:58:05.760
Yeah, that's key.
00:58:06.079 --> 00:58:07.360
Super, super key.
00:58:07.519 --> 00:58:15.440
Otherwise, if I didn't do that first, okay, bringing it back to my example, I would lay in starfish and just be seething.
00:58:15.920 --> 00:58:17.360
I would just be seething.
00:58:17.440 --> 00:58:23.039
I might go into some sort of fantasy about how it's gonna go downstairs and revenge fantasies.
00:58:23.280 --> 00:58:34.000
You know, like if I'm just gonna stay in anger, then the the content of my thoughts are gonna be about how to write that power imbalance and it's it's gonna not look pretty, right?
00:58:34.159 --> 00:58:37.360
So I don't want to be in Starfish fantasizing about revenge.
00:58:37.519 --> 00:58:44.800
I want to be in Starfish as a way to be able to get out of my head into my body and find out where the pain is, locate that pain.
00:58:45.119 --> 00:58:45.280
Yeah.
00:58:45.440 --> 00:58:53.920
So the the coping skill that you're using is not to continue to honor the secondary emotion, but it's to find the primary emotion.
00:58:54.400 --> 00:58:54.480
Right.
00:58:54.719 --> 00:58:57.199
And in order to do that, you have to soothe that anger.
00:58:57.280 --> 00:58:57.440
Right.
00:58:57.599 --> 00:58:58.800
You gotta calm it down.
00:58:59.039 --> 00:59:03.039
And those are the skills, some of the skills, or at least create some space from it.
00:59:03.440 --> 00:59:05.360
Yes, like you diffuse from it.
00:59:05.519 --> 00:59:09.920
You know, it's another another beautiful coping skill is diffusion, right?
00:59:10.239 --> 00:59:20.800
Um, sometimes you can imagine like sticking um a shop back, right, into the center of your chest and sucking out all the anger, right?
00:59:20.880 --> 00:59:24.960
It's more of like an energetic kind of somatic tool that we can use.
00:59:25.519 --> 00:59:27.039
You use the Ghostbuster back too.
00:59:27.280 --> 00:59:27.840
Yeah, yeah.
00:59:27.920 --> 00:59:31.280
I yes, I it depends on you know who I'm speaking to, right?
00:59:31.360 --> 00:59:32.880
Or what clicks for you, right?
00:59:33.360 --> 00:59:45.760
Um, so imagine sucking all that anger out, okay, and letting that putting that anger, you know, in a shop back, let putting it down in the toilet, flushing the toilet, right?
00:59:45.920 --> 00:59:47.360
What are you left with?
00:59:47.920 --> 00:59:48.239
Right?
00:59:48.320 --> 00:59:50.079
You're probably left with the underlying pain.
00:59:50.320 --> 00:59:54.400
Well, if nothing else, you created enough space that you could now look at.
00:59:54.639 --> 00:59:55.119
Yeah.
00:59:55.440 --> 01:00:00.800
So there's there's this is not this is not so hard, right?
01:00:01.199 --> 01:00:09.920
It takes a minute, but I think that if we all were able to do these things, but it's okay for it to take a minute.
01:00:10.000 --> 01:00:10.960
We're honoring it.
01:00:11.199 --> 01:00:12.400
We don't want to shut it down.
01:00:12.639 --> 01:00:13.119
Exactly.
01:00:13.519 --> 01:00:15.039
To take the time to do this.
01:00:15.199 --> 01:00:15.519
Yes.
01:00:15.760 --> 01:00:18.000
You're important and you're worth it, right?
01:00:18.159 --> 01:00:33.679
And then if if you're having some sort of reaction to me saying that, I think that would be a really good thing to be curious about, is what part of me is rejecting this notion that I'm a worthy human that deserves love and kindness and respect.
01:00:33.840 --> 01:00:37.039
And the way that I can get that is to first do that with myself.
01:00:37.679 --> 01:00:43.519
And by honoring your own pain, that is an act of love for yourself.
01:00:43.840 --> 01:00:51.679
And and if there's if there's a some sort of internal response, the part of you that's not liking that, uh, will just say be curious about that.
01:00:52.000 --> 01:00:53.760
I think that's all we have today.
01:00:53.920 --> 01:00:58.400
So thank you for joining us, and we'll talk with you next time.