WEBVTT
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Hello and welcome to another episode of Inside the Recording Studio.
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I am Jody Whitesides and with me as always is Mr.
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Chris Hellstrom.
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How are you today, Chris?
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Good morning, Jody. I'm doing just fine and dandy. How about yourself?
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You're just fine and dandy.
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Are you ducky as well?
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I'm not sure if I'm ducky, but I am dandy, I guess. That's how good I am. I'm fine and dandy.
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Well, that's double good.
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All right. How, right? How are you doing? Yeah, awesome. How's that shoulder?
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Let's square that up.
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I'm doing good.
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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Still sore, but it's almost 100% back to normal.
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Still attached, I take it. Good. Awesome. All right, I'm getting jumped right in. Hey,
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It's still attached to my person, yes.
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Hey, Jody, do you have a style, do you think, when it comes to mix engineering?
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Yeah.
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Yes.
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Yeah?
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Yeah, we're done.
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Cool.
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All right, cool.
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Thanks for listening, everybody.
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Is it good to have a style when it comes to that?
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Is it something that we should strive for, do you think?
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Is it something that behooves us?
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What are your thoughts on the subject?
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Because that's kind of what we're talking about today.
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Is it good to have a sound or a style as a mix engineer/producer or certainly mix engineer
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The idea in terms of what you just asked me, personally,
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Yeah.
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Mm-hmm.
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I think I developed a sound due to the fact that I started out as an artist,
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Yeah.
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Yeah.
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not because I started as a mix engineer.
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And I don't know if that's necessarily a good or a bad thing.
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It's just the way my path through this industry occurred is the best way for me to put it.
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Sure.
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That being said, there are a lot of mix engineers out there who don't technically have what I would call a sound sound like you'd recognize,
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Yeah.
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Hey, that guy did that mix kind of thing.
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Yeah.
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And generally speaking, if you could recognize it for that, it might not be a good thing.
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It might be good to have a sound as far as like instantly identifiable, but at the same
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time that has a certain expiration date on it. If it's too defined, right? I don't want to mention
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It can.
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Yes.
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this person by name, but there was a very successful person in early 90s who ended up doing in the
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rock realm a lot of remixes for people and was all over the place. Now, I don't know if this
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Uh-huh.
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person is still active today. I'm assuming the person is. I'm trying to be as vague as possible
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here. But well, good, then I've said it correctly. But it can
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You're so vague, I have no idea who you're talking about.
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be that you're dating that sound, right? Okay, so if it's so
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identifiable, it's like, Oh, everybody's heard that now do
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something different. This is dependent on the style of music
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that that we're doing. Right? Yeah, I think I do. But I
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So throwing it right back at you, do you have a sound?
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I know you have a style, but do you have a sound?
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honestly don't know how to answer that. I'd like to think
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that I let each song or artist come through in the mixes that I do as opposed to crowbarring
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Mm-hmm.
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what I think is cool on there. But at the same time, if I'm doing a mix, I'm going to implement
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[laughs]
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my tools, how I like to do things on that. So I think it's one of those cases where you kind of
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Mm-hmm.
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you straddle both fences where I have a certain, you know, aesthetic perhaps that I like to hear
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things, right, whether it's drums or guitars or whatever happens to be. And it probably
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Sure.
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gets obviously filtered through my sensibilities there. But in my ears, in my eyes and all
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And your ears.
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of that, right? Yes, of course, of course. I don't know. I'm not sure if somebody would
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Don't mix with your eyes, mix with your ears.
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necessarily listen to something I've done and go, "Oh, that sounds like Chris," you
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It would be great if that was a positive thing or the oh that sounds like Chris, you know
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Sure.
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Well, and that's kind of where I'm getting at in terms of like when you try to tattoo
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That that would be bad
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a sound onto a particular person's abilities.
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Yeah
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I recently had somebody that I've done a little work with come back at me and ask about another
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recording mix person stating, I will never go back to them ever again.
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And of course, everything I've ever heard this particular person do doesn't come across
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as schooled or professional or understanding how to actually hear the way something should
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I'm not sure.
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be presented in a mix.
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Would be the best way to say it without being a complete dick.
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You're talking about a mix engineer.
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Yes.
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Right. Okay.
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Who also runs a studio, fancies themselves as a recording engineer, that kind of thing.
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When it comes to all of that, I think we have to focus on our skill level first.
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And those skill sets will naturally be colored by the music that we are into and that we listen to.
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Sure.
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because so many different styles, you know, whether it's rock, if it's a country thing,
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or hip-hop thing, EDM, whatever it happens to be, they're... sure. But they all have with them
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What about punk?
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Punk seems to be a good starting place.
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a certain sound that should be appropriate for that, that kind of musical style, right? Now,
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I would argue, yes, I mean, things are obviously always evolving, right?
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Prior to what era?
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Prior to what year?
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I'm blurring, yes.
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And blurring and coming back in fashion and we hear a lot more reverbs and things now
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because 80s is kind of in vogue again, right?
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I think it's important to kind of focus on something in there that we're passionate
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about before we go into that.
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Now you mentioned punk there.
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Mm-hmm.
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is to me at least it's one of those musical styles where you might have a
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certain leeway when you start with it because it's supposed to be this sort
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of like DIY approach right and it's all about attitude and it's all about
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giving the giant middle finger to society type of thing right that was
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Sure.
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sort of like the essence of that but then
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Pumpkin garage rock.
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That's why I brought it up is it might be a good place to start for a lot of things because
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you cut your teeth on things that you don't have to worry quite so much about the base
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value or the high end value or how lo-fi it might sound.
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I'm not sure I would entirely agree with that because I think whatever musical style you
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start with, it's always going to be a certain DIY approach.
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But I think that that sort of mindset of punk and kind of keeping that aggression and that
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attitude in there can become a challenge because let's say huge band like Green Day
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were considered a punk band when they started out, right? Today, I'm not sure anybody would
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Yes.
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call them punk necessarily because their sound has evolved and stuff. And as a matter of
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fact, they got a lot of flack initially when their style sort of changed and got a little
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bit more mainstream. Yes, with a P word, right? Yeah. What was the point I wanted to make
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Pop.
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Yes, the big P.
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that randomly. No, I think, you know, we have to sort of gravitate towards what we think
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is our passion, not just the passion, but we actually have to be good at that passion.
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Right. What's that?
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what I would say to that. And you're not wrong in saying it, but I would take it a step further
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and say, it's probably ideal to focus on the genre as a mix engineer that makes you go,
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fuck yeah, I get to work on this. Because if you're not saying fuck yeah, you're probably
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Oh, yeah. Right. Yes, as long as you have the, you know, you're in the position where
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doing yourself a disservice and you're probably doing the client a disservice.
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you can say yay or nay to certain projects, right? If you're a staff engineer in a certain
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place in certain studio, you just have to do the work that's there, right? And you have to be
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professional enough to give your all and serve the song and the artist whatever that happens to be.
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But if you're not super passionate about a project, let's say if somebody would come to me and go,
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"Hey, I have this lo-fi hip-hop thing that I like to do. We want it to be like really authentic.
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[ �
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I'm probably not your guy because I'm not going to be, I could give it a shot, but I'm probably not
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gonna project everything that needs to go into that. The same thing for perhaps a country thing.
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It's like, yeah, well, it's kind of adjacent to some of the stuff that I do, but if you want
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something with super authenticity, I might not be your guy. Where let's say that whatever musical
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style there are certain aesthetics that are there that just supposed to be in that sound.
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Sure.
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If you are doing any kind of music, you want to at least be sort of like, if not steeped into that
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sound and knowing what is required to do that, to have it sound as contemporary or as legitimate as
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Mm-hmm.
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Sure.
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possible, let's say. I would, that would be my recommendation for anybody that that's kind of
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Along those lines, you're talking about essentially finding your voice depending on the type of
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music you're wanting to get into.
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Now let's say you're defining a new sound, like when 9-inch nails came out.
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going into this right? Yeah. Right? Yeah.
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That was kind of new territory, to say the least, especially with the way it blew up.
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What do you use as your marker for like, "Hey, this is how we're going to do it and we're
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kind of springboarding off of that."
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gets harder and harder on a daily basis to come out with an entirely new sound.
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Like to me, that was the last big explosion of a sound.
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Yeah. And yeah, I mean, something that had a little bit of longevity, shall we say, I would
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probably go along with that. But there have been, you know, other things past that, of course,
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Mm hmm.
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you could argue, perhaps that I think it was about the same time where Dr. Dre and his people that
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came out just about the same time and exploded as as the nine inch nails thing did. So there was that
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Yeah.
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And defining a new sound I think has more to do with the artist and the time when you're
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doing that, that all the stars have to kind of line up to do something and to have people
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actually be aware of that it's happening.
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Or if they're not aware of it directly speaking, they're all just in tune with whatever the
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sound is that the artist might want to focus in on.
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a new sound is, is, does it really only become a new sound when it becomes popular? Because,
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No, not necessarily.
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Not at all.
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you know, if you're doing something and it just never takes off and, you know, you can
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pat yourself on the back and go, well, it's just because I'm so new, nobody gets me.
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Well, if your tree fell in the forest and no one was there to hear it, did it matter?
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Exactly. Or maybe what you're doing just sounds horrible to people, you know, and it's never
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going to take off. And I think you have to be aware of these things, but as a mix engineer,
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That's that catch 22 right there.
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is that your job? Unless you're part of the sort of like the creative process. If you're
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getting a country track to mix, right? And you go, well, I'm going to put my stamp on
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this, I'm going to create something new and the end result ends up sounding like Slayer,
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know, that's probably a new sound. But is that something that
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somebody wants to hear? You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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a good question. And we'll tackle that question right after this word from our sponsors.
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All right, the question was, if you were a mix engineer and you were given a country
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track and you injected the concept of slayer into it, do people want to hear it? That's
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a good question, I think. And here's here's here's a funny example of maybe just such a
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thing a few years back I had the pleasure of meeting a band that was really damn good and
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they were in that thrash metal kind of vibe along the lines of like God smack and maybe a slightly
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and
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more modern version of Metallica and things of that nature but they were from a small town a rural
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small town farming community and they were really good I mean there's no question about it I was
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and
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bobbing my head to the music I thought they were great I thought they had everything together
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except for an image and an actual like defining quality that would set them apart from the
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masters of their genre.
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In speaking to the promoter of the event where I saw this band, I mentioned to him,
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I said, "You know, you stick a band guitar on that guitar player and you dress these
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guys in overalls, they can still play the exact same music, but then they can start
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calling it 'Hillbilly Thrash', which nobody's done.
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Nice.
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Right?
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They defined their own genre right then and there.
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Yeah.
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And the promoter was just like, whoa, mind blown.
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And here's the thing.
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I've been waiting to give that example away for over a decade.
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done it. So, right.
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Well, I did it before, yes.
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And I actually got that concept from someone else.
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And the funny thing is, is that if you
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were to start running around and telling everybody
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that when they ask you, what do you sound like?
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And you say, hillbilly thrash.
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Most people are going to turn their heads like the RCA Victor dog and wonder what the
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hell that is.
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And to have a group of people that could get together and define that, not only from the
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band and the writing of their music aspect, but the recording engineer and the mixing
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engineer and everybody else that we're talking about in this, that starts to define a genre
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and a sound.
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It can. Yeah, absolutely. I'm also a little bit weary of now, I guess anything that kind
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Yeah.
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of comes out in its new and it's kind of defining a new sound is always looked at with a little
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bit of skepticism initially until it takes off. Anything in history that there's always
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been raised eyebrows about, oh, you're going to do what, you know, and it turns out to
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[laughs]
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to be successful and then everybody jumps on the bandwagon, right? But I think this
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has a fair bit to do with the artist and sort of like the marketability of that and perhaps
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a little bit less so with the recording aspect of it and the engineering aspect of it. Yes.
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Sure.
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But as a mix engineer, you have to be aware of where they want to go.
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You have to be aware of the genre that is going into the mix of the song or the album
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that you're working on.
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It's one of those things where we always like to say you need to communicate with the artist,
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right?
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So, you know, and that's like, hey, we're imagine 84 Metallica, but we're going to have
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much so. Now you're just you're jumping off my bridge.
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banjoes on it, you know?
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So it's like, okay.
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Right.
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So I'm going, yeah, all right, well, I'm in.
00:15:13.060 --> 00:15:14.100
Let's do this thing.
00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:20.220
You're at that part where you are sort of serving the song and the artist as an engineer
00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:27.200
and you're not necessarily crowbarring your sound onto whatever they are, right?
00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:32.880
So I think that that's an interesting angle where we have to kind of explore and see and
00:15:32.940 --> 00:15:38.080
then of course what you do with all of that with your know-how and everything, you can
00:15:38.100 --> 00:15:42.840
perhaps make that vision come to life, you know, and I think that's as a mix engineer,
00:15:43.160 --> 00:15:47.760
kind of our job. I mean, I've told this story before on the
00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:44.760
Sure.
00:15:47.820 --> 00:15:51.260
podcast here, but I think it's such a good story that it needs
00:15:51.260 --> 00:15:58.920
to be repeated. Where are? Well, maybe I just just edited in
00:15:53.920 --> 00:15:54.980
I set up a delay pedal.
00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:04.180
from before I was mixing an album last year, where I was
00:16:04.220 --> 00:16:08.780
essentially, you know, kind of shoehorning my sound onto a
00:16:08.820 --> 00:16:11.859
certain song. And it was when I got the mixed feedback back
00:16:11.860 --> 00:16:16.480
where the artist said, well, can we make the drums sound a little bit more fleetwood, Mac and less
00:16:16.620 --> 00:16:23.280
deaf leopard? Yeah. So it was one of those things where I'm take my static. This is how I like
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:30.400
drums to sound. Right. And they go, No, that's not what I had in mind at all. Fix it. And of course,
00:16:26.780 --> 00:16:27.520
[laughs]
00:16:30.500 --> 00:16:36.579
we did but lack of communication on my part there. Right. That is important. Now, what is your
00:16:37.020 --> 00:16:41.640
thought on the more transparent the mix engineer is, as far as
00:16:41.680 --> 00:16:46.960
style wise, you are better suited for the song or the task at
00:16:47.020 --> 00:16:49.600
hand. Is that something that you would agree with or have a
00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:51.520
different take on or what do you think?
00:16:51.920 --> 00:16:55.240
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's program dependent.
00:16:55.820 --> 00:17:04.220
And that comes with experience to know when to step back and just do a mix without,
00:16:59.980 --> 00:17:00.460
Yeah.
00:17:04.959 --> 00:17:11.640
as you say, crowbarring something onto it or with a sledgehammer pounding it into submission.
00:17:10.900 --> 00:17:11.120
Yeah.
00:17:12.699 --> 00:17:18.999
And when you do need to actually throw the atomic bomb at it and blow it up to
00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:23.640
whatever it needs to be. When you asked me earlier about whether or not I think I have
00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:30.400
a sound, and I said yes, the bigger point of where I probably should expand upon that
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:38.360
has more to do with the way I actually separate instruments. Because I know a lot of my mixes,
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:36.280
Explain.
00:17:38.840 --> 00:17:45.879
not all of them, not 100%, but probably a good 90% is a lot of very clear definition
00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:49.280
between instruments where you can hear everything that's going on.
00:17:50.020 --> 00:17:50.240
Hmm.
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:55.200
Rather than creating a wall of sound where shit gets lost.
00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:56.800
Okay.
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:59.360
Now have I ever created a wall of sound where shit gets lost?
00:17:56.800 --> 00:17:56.880
Okay.
00:17:59.540 --> 00:18:00.160
Yes, I have.
00:18:00.280 --> 00:18:02.600
But that was what the song required at that point.
00:18:02.740 --> 00:18:09.000
But generally speaking, I like to be able to have the ear dive into any given point
00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:14.720
of a mix and be able to hear any given instrument that's happening, whether you're currently
00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:18.420
thinking about it or not, but if you go back and listen to it on another set of
00:18:18.540 --> 00:18:21.760
headphones or a different set of speakers, you'll find something in there
00:18:22.300 --> 00:18:27.820
that was defined in any given speaker arrangement that you heard it in, but you
00:18:27.860 --> 00:18:32.580
might not have noticed it as clearly if that makes any sense. So it's always there
00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:36.700
and it's always present, and I have a tendency to really get very good at
00:18:33.620 --> 00:18:44.780
Well, yeah. Yeah, it sounds to me like you're, you're striving for a mix where everything
00:18:36.820 --> 00:18:39.000
getting that definition between all the parts.
00:18:45.040 --> 00:18:52.120
has a purpose, right? It's not now, obviously, in a mix, something I'd like to say, a mix
00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:46.100
A purpose.
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:53.200
This is not a democracy.
00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:55.480
Not everything gets an equal say.
00:18:55.540 --> 00:19:01.300
So it's finding that place for something that it needs to be perhaps in the background,
00:19:01.540 --> 00:19:05.260
whether it's panning or level or spatial wise, right?
00:19:05.780 --> 00:19:07.680
I would probably agree with your assessment there.
00:19:07.700 --> 00:19:13.100
I think you do that quite well where everything is there for a reason.
00:19:13.520 --> 00:19:18.520
Even if it doesn't leap out, initially you listen, you lay back and you listen to something
00:19:18.620 --> 00:19:18.960
on the headphones.
00:19:19.600 --> 00:19:24.040
cool that I didn't hear that glockenspiel over to the left, you know, so
00:19:22.580 --> 00:19:25.080
I love my clock.
00:19:25.600 --> 00:19:26.900
Yeah, but but it's
00:19:27.540 --> 00:19:33.420
Interesting things like that. Can I think it'd be really really cool and even if you don't because I'd notice it initially
00:19:33.760 --> 00:19:37.860
I still go back to that with having a sound or not now you
00:19:38.540 --> 00:19:39.540
touched on
00:19:39.940 --> 00:19:42.240
experience as well and
00:19:40.080 --> 00:19:41.480
Yeah.
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:45.260
It becomes almost one of those things that
00:19:46.300 --> 00:19:49.580
You know your experience gets you the next gig
00:19:49.900 --> 00:19:57.320
Right and it may be something that you are doing to a mix that that somebody's heard or
00:19:58.220 --> 00:20:00.860
You know we hear it all the time if somebody's on the charts like now
00:20:01.660 --> 00:20:05.020
Let's get that guy to mix our next record, right?
00:20:05.560 --> 00:20:10.940
And it is perhaps more of a marketing thing that you want to be connected with that
00:20:11.700 --> 00:20:18.320
Or you think that this person is actually going to add something to your production that you want added and
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:18.840
Yeah.
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:19.060
now.
00:20:19.460 --> 00:20:24.340
You know, we talked a little bit before we started recording here today, but somebody
00:20:24.840 --> 00:20:32.320
like Chris Lordalgy, does he have a sound or not? Because he works on a wide range of things,
00:20:32.500 --> 00:20:38.280
but I think most people would think that he has these mixes that are very sort of forward and
00:20:38.420 --> 00:20:45.700
punchy and relatively aggressive, right? So is that his sound or is it because he gets approached
00:20:45.700 --> 00:20:48.660
with, you know, projects that would be suited for him to do.
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:51.000
That would be a question for him, not for me.
00:20:51.500 --> 00:20:51.980
(laughing)
00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:53.560
Yeah, not, but do you have a thought on it?
00:20:53.140 --> 00:20:53.760
And his brother.
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:57.120
I mean, not, not necessarily speaking for him, but the same
00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:01.040
could be said for like, Dave Pinsotto or Bob Clear Mountain
00:21:01.280 --> 00:21:03.880
or whoever, you know, so it's
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:02.600
Uh-huh.
00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:05.660
I'll tell you, if I were an artist
00:21:06.220 --> 00:21:09.680
and I wanted probably one of the penultimate in sounds
00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:11.820
in the history of recording,
00:21:11.980 --> 00:21:14.400
I'd probably go to Jack Joseph Plig myself.
00:21:14.540 --> 00:21:14.880
Yeah.
00:21:15.520 --> 00:21:19.160
Well, the two albums that he did with Jellyfish,
00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:20.260
Right.
00:21:20.250 --> 00:21:21.880
I mean, those are just ridiculous.
00:21:21.890 --> 00:21:24.540
And they're considered like some of the greatest sounding
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:26.760
records ever made by a lot of people,
00:21:26.900 --> 00:21:29.180
not everybody obviously, but there's a lot of people
00:21:29.320 --> 00:21:34.560
out there that hold those up as examples of amazing writing,
00:21:34.740 --> 00:21:37.700
amazing recording, amazing mixing,
00:21:38.140 --> 00:21:38.400
Yeah.
00:21:38.420 --> 00:21:39.960
the whole process on those albums,
00:21:40.080 --> 00:21:43.100
they're just so amazing with how they came out.
00:21:43.600 --> 00:21:45.300
And he was the mix engineer on that.
00:21:45.780 --> 00:21:51.760
If I didn't want to mix it myself, I'd go to him, especially for that kind of vibe
00:21:49.420 --> 00:21:49.500
Yeah.
00:21:51.860 --> 00:21:52.680
that he imparted.
00:21:52.500 --> 00:21:52.820
All right.
00:21:53.120 --> 00:21:55.400
Those are very, very good examples there.
00:21:55.500 --> 00:22:00.760
And I think those are cases where sort of like all the stars were lining up, you know,
00:22:01.080 --> 00:22:05.200
sort of speak with this songwriting, with the time and everything and the talent of
00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:07.760
of everybody involved and they created these works of art
00:22:07.600 --> 00:22:08.320
Of course.
00:22:07.940 --> 00:22:11.140
that have stood the test of time.
00:22:11.260 --> 00:22:13.960
It's just unfortunate that most people don't know about them.
00:22:14.600 --> 00:22:16.820
There's a talent in the know-how and the timing
00:22:17.180 --> 00:22:20.600
of everything that, for example, Tony Visconti
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:22.040
when he worked with David Bowie,
00:22:22.260 --> 00:22:22.440
Mm-hmm.
00:22:23.300 --> 00:22:27.300
it was an explosion in like new gear
00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:28.420
in all this kind of stuff.
00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:32.880
And I think he had like a harmonizer at some point
00:22:32.980 --> 00:22:34.860
and they didn't really know how to explain it,
00:22:34.980 --> 00:22:40.380
But Bowie wanted that sound so that they started working together and had a very fruitful relationship.
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:40.760
Right?
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:47.620
So it's that talent in the time and everything and you sort of get known for a certain sound
00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:48.420
because of that.
00:22:48.800 --> 00:22:52.300
Yeah, I think the same could be said for maybe Mark Needham as well.
00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:50.240
So...
00:22:52.560 --> 00:22:58.040
He's been around a long time, but I would pause it to say that the Imagine Dragon guys
00:22:58.180 --> 00:23:00.860
probably met him because they lived in the same town.
00:23:01.450 --> 00:23:04.820
At least I'm assuming that Mark was living in Vegas at the time that they started coming
00:23:01.980 --> 00:23:02.340
Could be.
00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:05.040
up.
00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:11.020
quite possible that the Imagine Dragon guys just met him from doing local shows.
00:23:08.360 --> 00:23:08.800
Yeah.
00:23:12.040 --> 00:23:16.960
And he was there in the audience or something and wanted to work with him or they wanted
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:17.760
to work with him.
00:23:18.320 --> 00:23:20.480
They created a sound just for them.
00:23:20.560 --> 00:23:21.000
Yeah.
00:23:21.260 --> 00:23:21.940
And it worked out.
00:23:22.380 --> 00:23:23.280
They became pretty big.
00:23:24.500 --> 00:23:24.740
(laughs)
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:26.340
Yeah, they did all right.
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:28.360
They did all right and continue to do all right.
00:23:28.500 --> 00:23:43.620
You know, I think as engineers, we are judged on the work that we've done and we sort of are possibly more dependent on the artists for our sound than it is something that we're creating by ourselves.
00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:50.240
It just happens because with our experience, the work that we've done, if we've done a good job, we get known for that.
00:23:50.900 --> 00:23:51.080
Sure.
00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:57.700
So I think initially, as we start out as mixed engineers, first, I would say just work as much as you can, right?
00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:01.440
And do whatever you do, but then find out what you're passionate and you're good at.
00:24:01.900 --> 00:24:01.940
Yes.
00:24:01.940 --> 00:24:13.600
us. Nobody's tall enough to.
00:24:02.180 --> 00:24:06.400
Like Dave Pensotto used to say, like, passion about something is not good enough.
00:24:06.760 --> 00:24:12.880
Like he said sometimes, yeah, I have a real passion for basketball, but I'm never going to be in the NBA, you know.
00:24:15.320 --> 00:24:19.780
Well, yeah, perhaps, but, you know, you need to be good at it as well.
00:24:20.100 --> 00:24:26.400
right? And then one thing will sort of breed the next. That doesn't mean that you need to
00:24:26.580 --> 00:24:32.120
necessarily pigeonhole yourself into one style of music and just doing that. But I think you find
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:37.560
out where you're good at, you try to do that as much as you can, and then try to spread your wings.
00:24:38.040 --> 00:24:43.020
You know, if you're good enough at something, I think you can start, like I said, spreading your
00:24:43.080 --> 00:24:48.020
wings a little bit and trying new things. And then you see that either you're good at that as well
00:24:48.020 --> 00:24:56.500
or not. You brought up Trent Reznor, Narnia's Nails. He has very, very successfully managed to go into
00:24:56.799 --> 00:24:58.200
Yes.
00:24:57.100 --> 00:25:07.400
scoring. He's doing very, very well with that. Well, Atticus Ross, yeah, but he started as
00:25:00.820 --> 00:25:03.580
He partnered with somebody that was already really damn good at it.
00:25:07.820 --> 00:25:12.020
right-hand man, so to speak, to Trent, right, when they started their work in relationship.
00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:18.000
And then he found somebody he could trust, and then they were thrown at him this
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:21.440
to needy to do the social network, right?
00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:20.620
Yes.
00:25:20.620 --> 00:25:20.760
Yes.
00:25:21.940 --> 00:25:23.400
And it kind of snowballed from there.
00:25:23.900 --> 00:25:24.860
Is style important?
00:25:25.780 --> 00:25:26.940
Maybe not as much as you think.
00:25:27.140 --> 00:25:28.720
Just do what you're good at and everything else
00:25:28.840 --> 00:25:30.740
will take care of itself, I think.
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:31.740
All right.
00:25:31.220 --> 00:25:32.980
Without that would be my two cents, so.
00:25:34.520 --> 00:25:35.420
What do you think?
00:25:35.600 --> 00:25:40.420
Well, my two cents in that regard ends up being that you have to know the tools
00:25:41.100 --> 00:25:41.500
Yeah.
00:25:41.280 --> 00:25:44.140
that you're going to use and you have to be creative with them.
00:25:42.840 --> 00:25:43.000
Yeah.
00:25:44.840 --> 00:25:48.360
You also have to understand, especially from a mixed standpoint,
00:25:48.900 --> 00:25:54.640
how your listening environment may or may not influence all other listening environments
00:25:54.780 --> 00:25:57.840
that somebody's eventually going to listen to your mixes in.
00:25:59.080 --> 00:26:04.080
If you're not acutely aware of that, it can be a problem because it might sound fucking amazing
00:26:04.700 --> 00:26:09.000
in your little cubby of creation where you're doing the mix. But once it gets out into the world,
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:14.120
it might sound like dog shit. And if it does that, you're probably not getting a whole lot of work.
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:11.160
Yeah.
00:26:14.580 --> 00:26:19.340
to wrap this up again. Besides knowing your tools and your gear and getting out of it,
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:24.700
what you want and the listening environment, all of those things. The last thing I would
00:26:24.800 --> 00:26:34.020
say then is if you're working on a genre that you are intimately aware of and knowing the
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:41.000
aesthetics of that, that will influence how you treat the low end, how loud is the snare
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:44.680
going to be, how much emphasis is going to be on the subs, all that kind of stuff.
00:26:45.020 --> 00:26:45.260
Uh-huh.
00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:47.220
How are we treating guitars?
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:48.400
How are we doing anything?
00:26:49.130 --> 00:26:51.540
Then of course you can elaborate on that.
00:26:52.380 --> 00:26:57.520
One person that I wanted to mention here is primarily a metal mix engineer called Andy
00:26:57.620 --> 00:26:58.020
Sneep.
00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:03.880
And he is one of those that has basically a sound now, but I think he was one of the
00:27:03.940 --> 00:27:10.300
first ones to really start implementing the layering of samples onto drums in a metal
00:27:10.300 --> 00:27:14.900
context. So here's somebody that kind of took something that he was really,
00:27:15.060 --> 00:27:20.620
really passionate about and sort of expanded on it and basically rejuvenated
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:26.020
this sound of a genre that can perhaps sound a little dated otherwise.
00:27:26.500 --> 00:27:26.620
Right.
00:27:27.020 --> 00:27:31.980
So should we have a style, Jody or not? Yeah.
00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:31.320
I think that's a personal choice.
00:27:32.340 --> 00:27:33.660
I can take her leave my style.
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:35.600
I think it's all dependent on what,
00:27:35.740 --> 00:27:37.940
what your goal is and what you want to do.
00:27:38.110 --> 00:27:38.300
Yeah.
00:27:38.520 --> 00:27:41.860
I would be less concerned with creating a style
00:27:42.320 --> 00:27:46.040
because fans can come and go and primarily just be good
00:27:46.420 --> 00:27:49.040
at what it is that you do in presenting the song
00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:50.920
and the artist in the best way possible.
00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:52.420
And if you're not the producer,
00:27:52.540 --> 00:27:54.120
you don't really have a say in that anyway.
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:54.320
[laughter]
00:27:54.280 --> 00:27:56.980
So it's like, no, rip.
00:27:55.040 --> 00:27:55.440
That's right.
00:27:56.120 --> 00:27:57.980
Do your job as the mixed engineer, damn it.
00:27:58.560 --> 00:27:59.800
And then if you do that well enough,
00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:02.820
and on top of that, if you're a decent guy or girl,
00:28:03.300 --> 00:28:04.640
people are gonna want to work with you.
00:28:04.620 --> 00:28:05.520
Damn straight.
00:28:05.700 --> 00:28:10.540
And with that, let's move on to our Friday finds.
00:28:11.020 --> 00:28:11.640
Chris, what do you got?
00:28:12.220 --> 00:28:20.760
I rediscovered an app today. It is called Centorial. In an old episode, we talked about
00:28:15.360 --> 00:28:15.700
Uh-oh.
00:28:16.220 --> 00:28:45.820
So, I am going to take this.
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:27.700
synthesis. And for quite a few people, synthesis can be difficult. And we basically just, we don't
00:28:27.740 --> 00:28:33.460
really understand how the synths work. We just buy patches. And then we're slaves to those patches.
00:28:33.580 --> 00:28:41.600
Centorial is an application that helps you understand how subtractive synthesis works.
00:28:42.260 --> 00:28:48.060
It helps you listen to what it does. And it's basically a tutorial just like the name implies.
00:28:48.300 --> 00:28:57.300
Like Centorial, get it? But I know. But it has all these steps through it where one by one it
00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:51.340
So clever.
00:28:57.380 --> 00:29:03.180
adds new functionality for you to listen to it and recreate what is given to you in that app.
00:29:03.180 --> 00:29:09.600
So it's a really, really cool way to kind of boost your synth patch writing ability as it were.
00:29:09.860 --> 00:29:14.480
It's called Centorial. There's a demo for up to a certain amount of levels and then
00:29:15.100 --> 00:29:18.660
you can buy the whole thing. I think it's a really, really cool way to go because I think with
00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:23.280
synthesis, so many of us are just kind of like buying patches and going through them without
00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:29.680
really, really knowing how to dial in your own. So that's my find for this Friday. What about you?
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:29.400
Rock on.
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:29.740
video.
00:29:30.140 --> 00:29:33.340
I'm going to go with something that just came out in the last couple of days.
00:29:33.800 --> 00:29:37.980
It was announced by Universal Audio and it's called the Volt interface.
00:29:39.300 --> 00:29:45.220
And what separates this from their normal Apollo system is that you get the universal
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:53.080
audio quality in a very small compact interface that has no onboard processing.
00:29:53.580 --> 00:29:58.660
This is just a USB C interface and it comes in three flavors as far as I'm aware of at
00:29:58.720 --> 00:29:59.340
this point in time.
00:29:59.390 --> 00:30:02.280
They have the Volt one, which is a one in two out.
00:30:02.850 --> 00:30:04.940
They have the Volt two, which is a two in two out.
00:30:05.010 --> 00:30:08.120
And then they have the Volt two 76, which is the two in two out.
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:13.220
But it has an additional piece of capability to it that the Volt 1 and 2 do not have.
00:30:13.660 --> 00:30:20.400
The Volt 1 and 2 allow you to get like a tube preamp sound from the UA610 Mic Pre.
00:30:14.060 --> 00:30:14.120
Oh
00:30:20.820 --> 00:30:29.020
The 276 has the additional capability of also giving you an 1176 compressor limiter on the
00:30:29.120 --> 00:30:30.200
way in when you're recording.
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:31.380
Nice.
00:30:31.080 --> 00:30:36.340
So I'm going to go with these three devices that have come out, the Volt 1, the Volt 2,
00:30:36.560 --> 00:30:39.300
the Volt 276 as being really amazing.
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:44.540
You can use them with your iPad or your iPhone in addition to your laptop or
00:30:44.760 --> 00:30:48.960
your desktop computer, as long as it's got the USB-C connection capability.
00:30:49.420 --> 00:30:50.840
So I'm going with the volts.
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:52.220
Cool.
00:30:52.540 --> 00:30:56.800
Yes. And while we've got your attention, we would like you to go to our website
00:30:57.120 --> 00:31:00.840
and sign up for our email list at inside the recording studio.com.
00:31:01.360 --> 00:31:06.540
Doing so gets you free presets for some slate digital stuff and for some
00:31:06.540 --> 00:31:18.020
audio stuff from both Chris and I. It also makes sure that you don't miss out on any future episodes of the podcast as well as our Tuesday tips that come out every Tuesday.
00:31:18.540 --> 00:31:27.460
And whenever we do a giveaway, you're automatically enrolled in the giveaway. You have to do nothing further in order to possibly win something.
00:31:27.540 --> 00:31:34.360
In addition to that, if you send us an email at goldstargoldstr@insidetherecordingstudio.com
00:31:34.800 --> 00:31:40.060
with the word "sound," you'll get something cool back in your inbox. If you have a topic of
00:31:40.100 --> 00:31:45.440
suggestion for us to explain in a future episode, contact us via the contact page,
00:31:45.940 --> 00:31:49.940
hint hint, at the website, and we'll put it into consideration for a future episode.
00:31:50.300 --> 00:31:53.860
And with that, I'll say, see you next week.
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:55.840
See you, Jody. Thanks for listening, people.
00:00:14.640 --> 00:00:21.820
Hello and welcome to another episode of Inside the Recording Studio.
00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:25.640
I am Jody Whitesides and with me as always is Mr.
00:00:25.800 --> 00:00:26.380
Chris Hellstrom.
00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:27.400
How are you today, Chris?
00:00:28.000 --> 00:00:31.980
Good morning, Jody. I'm doing just fine and dandy. How about yourself?
00:00:30.700 --> 00:00:32.119
You're just fine and dandy.
00:00:32.240 --> 00:00:33.180
Are you ducky as well?
00:00:33.680 --> 00:00:40.040
I'm not sure if I'm ducky, but I am dandy, I guess. That's how good I am. I'm fine and dandy.
00:00:40.320 --> 00:00:41.340
Well, that's double good.
00:00:40.420 --> 00:00:47.280
All right. How, right? How are you doing? Yeah, awesome. How's that shoulder?
00:00:41.440 --> 00:00:42.220
Let's square that up.
00:00:44.080 --> 00:00:44.620
I'm doing good.
00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:45.900
Yeah.
00:00:46.620 --> 00:00:46.760
Yeah.
00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:50.940
Still sore, but it's almost 100% back to normal.
00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:57.720
Still attached, I take it. Good. Awesome. All right, I'm getting jumped right in. Hey,
00:00:52.440 --> 00:00:53.800
It's still attached to my person, yes.
00:00:57.720 --> 00:01:02.820
Hey, Jody, do you have a style, do you think, when it comes to mix engineering?
00:00:57.920 --> 00:00:58.400
Yeah.
00:01:03.000 --> 00:01:03.480
Yes.
00:01:03.860 --> 00:01:04.059
Yeah?
00:01:04.300 --> 00:01:04.800
Yeah, we're done.
00:01:04.879 --> 00:01:04.960
Cool.
00:01:05.600 --> 00:01:05.980
All right, cool.
00:01:06.360 --> 00:01:07.260
Thanks for listening, everybody.
00:01:08.360 --> 00:01:10.940
Is it good to have a style when it comes to that?
00:01:11.160 --> 00:01:14.160
Is it something that we should strive for, do you think?
00:01:14.240 --> 00:01:16.240
Is it something that behooves us?
00:01:16.620 --> 00:01:18.000
What are your thoughts on the subject?
00:01:18.060 --> 00:01:19.560
Because that's kind of what we're talking about today.
00:01:19.560 --> 00:01:27.700
Is it good to have a sound or a style as a mix engineer/producer or certainly mix engineer
00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:31.340
The idea in terms of what you just asked me, personally,
00:01:27.700 --> 00:01:29.020
Yeah.
00:01:31.160 --> 00:01:31.600
Mm-hmm.
00:01:32.360 --> 00:01:36.600
I think I developed a sound due to the fact that I started out as an artist,
00:01:35.040 --> 00:01:36.440
Yeah.
00:01:36.800 --> 00:01:37.360
Yeah.
00:01:37.320 --> 00:01:38.940
not because I started as a mix engineer.
00:01:39.280 --> 00:01:43.300
And I don't know if that's necessarily a good or a bad thing.
00:01:43.400 --> 00:01:48.520
It's just the way my path through this industry occurred is the best way for me to put it.
00:01:46.119 --> 00:01:47.520
Sure.
00:01:49.380 --> 00:01:58.760
That being said, there are a lot of mix engineers out there who don't technically have what I would call a sound sound like you'd recognize,
00:01:57.960 --> 00:01:58.440
Yeah.
00:01:58.940 --> 00:02:02.120
Hey, that guy did that mix kind of thing.
00:02:01.280 --> 00:02:01.480
Yeah.
00:02:03.380 --> 00:02:08.600
And generally speaking, if you could recognize it for that, it might not be a good thing.
00:02:08.440 --> 00:02:14.300
It might be good to have a sound as far as like instantly identifiable, but at the same
00:02:14.300 --> 00:02:21.720
time that has a certain expiration date on it. If it's too defined, right? I don't want to mention
00:02:18.320 --> 00:02:18.700
It can.
00:02:20.030 --> 00:02:20.460
Yes.
00:02:21.820 --> 00:02:30.320
this person by name, but there was a very successful person in early 90s who ended up doing in the
00:02:30.380 --> 00:02:38.560
rock realm a lot of remixes for people and was all over the place. Now, I don't know if this
00:02:34.320 --> 00:02:34.460
Uh-huh.
00:02:38.660 --> 00:02:43.660
person is still active today. I'm assuming the person is. I'm trying to be as vague as possible
00:02:43.660 --> 00:02:49.240
here. But well, good, then I've said it correctly. But it can
00:02:44.100 --> 00:02:46.420
You're so vague, I have no idea who you're talking about.
00:02:49.420 --> 00:02:53.080
be that you're dating that sound, right? Okay, so if it's so
00:02:53.320 --> 00:02:55.600
identifiable, it's like, Oh, everybody's heard that now do
00:02:55.640 --> 00:02:58.980
something different. This is dependent on the style of music
00:02:59.160 --> 00:03:07.800
that that we're doing. Right? Yeah, I think I do. But I
00:03:01.360 --> 00:03:04.520
So throwing it right back at you, do you have a sound?
00:03:05.140 --> 00:03:07.080
I know you have a style, but do you have a sound?
00:03:08.680 --> 00:03:11.740
honestly don't know how to answer that. I'd like to think
00:03:11.740 --> 00:03:21.480
that I let each song or artist come through in the mixes that I do as opposed to crowbarring
00:03:18.800 --> 00:03:19.140
Mm-hmm.
00:03:21.880 --> 00:03:27.920
what I think is cool on there. But at the same time, if I'm doing a mix, I'm going to implement
00:03:23.439 --> 00:03:24.020
[laughs]
00:03:28.460 --> 00:03:34.020
my tools, how I like to do things on that. So I think it's one of those cases where you kind of
00:03:31.199 --> 00:03:31.500
Mm-hmm.
00:03:34.400 --> 00:03:40.060
you straddle both fences where I have a certain, you know, aesthetic perhaps that I like to hear
00:03:40.060 --> 00:03:45.240
things, right, whether it's drums or guitars or whatever happens to be. And it probably
00:03:43.999 --> 00:03:44.260
Sure.
00:03:45.500 --> 00:03:53.480
gets obviously filtered through my sensibilities there. But in my ears, in my eyes and all
00:03:49.560 --> 00:03:50.020
And your ears.
00:03:53.480 --> 00:04:01.380
of that, right? Yes, of course, of course. I don't know. I'm not sure if somebody would
00:03:54.100 --> 00:03:55.840
Don't mix with your eyes, mix with your ears.
00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:05.780
necessarily listen to something I've done and go, "Oh, that sounds like Chris," you
00:04:05.780 --> 00:04:11.440
It would be great if that was a positive thing or the oh that sounds like Chris, you know
00:04:05.800 --> 00:04:06.240
Sure.
00:04:12.079 --> 00:04:18.440
Well, and that's kind of where I'm getting at in terms of like when you try to tattoo
00:04:12.600 --> 00:04:13.520
That that would be bad
00:04:18.440 --> 00:04:21.019
a sound onto a particular person's abilities.
00:04:21.100 --> 00:04:21.660
Yeah
00:04:22.300 --> 00:04:30.020
I recently had somebody that I've done a little work with come back at me and ask about another
00:04:30.380 --> 00:04:35.400
recording mix person stating, I will never go back to them ever again.
00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:40.840
And of course, everything I've ever heard this particular person do doesn't come across
00:04:41.280 --> 00:04:50.720
as schooled or professional or understanding how to actually hear the way something should
00:04:43.440 --> 00:04:52.980
I'm not sure.
00:04:50.900 --> 00:04:52.960
be presented in a mix.
00:04:53.640 --> 00:04:56.440
Would be the best way to say it without being a complete dick.
00:04:56.860 --> 00:04:58.660
You're talking about a mix engineer.
00:04:58.980 --> 00:04:59.220
Yes.
00:04:59.900 --> 00:05:00.780
Right. Okay.
00:04:59.980 --> 00:05:04.860
Who also runs a studio, fancies themselves as a recording engineer, that kind of thing.
00:05:05.800 --> 00:05:10.240
When it comes to all of that, I think we have to focus on our skill level first.
00:05:10.520 --> 00:05:20.140
And those skill sets will naturally be colored by the music that we are into and that we listen to.
00:05:18.240 --> 00:05:18.360
Sure.
00:05:20.140 --> 00:05:25.960
because so many different styles, you know, whether it's rock, if it's a country thing,
00:05:26.150 --> 00:05:35.820
or hip-hop thing, EDM, whatever it happens to be, they're... sure. But they all have with them
00:05:29.780 --> 00:05:30.400
What about punk?
00:05:30.880 --> 00:05:32.500
Punk seems to be a good starting place.
00:05:36.020 --> 00:05:41.900
a certain sound that should be appropriate for that, that kind of musical style, right? Now,
00:05:41.900 --> 00:05:48.520
I would argue, yes, I mean, things are obviously always evolving, right?
00:05:42.039 --> 00:05:43.220
Prior to what era?
00:05:43.780 --> 00:05:44.640
Prior to what year?
00:05:48.500 --> 00:05:49.320
I'm blurring, yes.
00:05:49.780 --> 00:05:54.440
And blurring and coming back in fashion and we hear a lot more reverbs and things now
00:05:54.680 --> 00:05:57.400
because 80s is kind of in vogue again, right?
00:05:58.120 --> 00:06:01.440
I think it's important to kind of focus on something in there that we're passionate
00:06:01.640 --> 00:06:03.600
about before we go into that.
00:06:03.740 --> 00:06:05.020
Now you mentioned punk there.
00:06:05.300 --> 00:06:05.460
Mm-hmm.
00:06:05.900 --> 00:06:11.940
is to me at least it's one of those musical styles where you might have a
00:06:12.140 --> 00:06:16.020
certain leeway when you start with it because it's supposed to be this sort
00:06:16.020 --> 00:06:21.840
of like DIY approach right and it's all about attitude and it's all about
00:06:21.960 --> 00:06:25.180
giving the giant middle finger to society type of thing right that was
00:06:24.680 --> 00:06:24.780
Sure.
00:06:25.240 --> 00:06:27.460
sort of like the essence of that but then
00:06:26.680 --> 00:06:27.600
Pumpkin garage rock.
00:06:27.720 --> 00:06:31.060
That's why I brought it up is it might be a good place to start for a lot of things because
00:06:31.140 --> 00:06:35.680
you cut your teeth on things that you don't have to worry quite so much about the base
00:06:35.800 --> 00:06:39.500
value or the high end value or how lo-fi it might sound.
00:06:40.060 --> 00:06:45.720
I'm not sure I would entirely agree with that because I think whatever musical style you
00:06:45.760 --> 00:06:48.840
start with, it's always going to be a certain DIY approach.
00:06:49.530 --> 00:06:55.300
But I think that that sort of mindset of punk and kind of keeping that aggression and that
00:06:55.300 --> 00:07:00.960
attitude in there can become a challenge because let's say huge band like Green Day
00:07:01.400 --> 00:07:07.620
were considered a punk band when they started out, right? Today, I'm not sure anybody would
00:07:02.820 --> 00:07:04.220
Yes.
00:07:08.200 --> 00:07:12.080
call them punk necessarily because their sound has evolved and stuff. And as a matter of
00:07:12.160 --> 00:07:16.660
fact, they got a lot of flack initially when their style sort of changed and got a little
00:07:16.660 --> 00:07:25.280
bit more mainstream. Yes, with a P word, right? Yeah. What was the point I wanted to make
00:07:18.340 --> 00:07:18.540
Pop.
00:07:20.580 --> 00:07:22.160
Yes, the big P.
00:07:25.280 --> 00:07:32.740
that randomly. No, I think, you know, we have to sort of gravitate towards what we think
00:07:33.280 --> 00:07:37.440
is our passion, not just the passion, but we actually have to be good at that passion.
00:07:37.980 --> 00:07:40.180
Right. What's that?
00:07:38.100 --> 00:07:43.000
what I would say to that. And you're not wrong in saying it, but I would take it a step further
00:07:43.120 --> 00:07:50.560
and say, it's probably ideal to focus on the genre as a mix engineer that makes you go,
00:07:51.140 --> 00:07:57.000
fuck yeah, I get to work on this. Because if you're not saying fuck yeah, you're probably
00:07:53.860 --> 00:08:05.500
Oh, yeah. Right. Yes, as long as you have the, you know, you're in the position where
00:07:57.060 --> 00:08:01.000
doing yourself a disservice and you're probably doing the client a disservice.
00:08:05.620 --> 00:08:10.440
you can say yay or nay to certain projects, right? If you're a staff engineer in a certain
00:08:10.440 --> 00:08:14.900
place in certain studio, you just have to do the work that's there, right? And you have to be
00:08:14.980 --> 00:08:20.940
professional enough to give your all and serve the song and the artist whatever that happens to be.
00:08:21.360 --> 00:08:27.420
But if you're not super passionate about a project, let's say if somebody would come to me and go,
00:08:27.700 --> 00:08:34.140
"Hey, I have this lo-fi hip-hop thing that I like to do. We want it to be like really authentic.
00:08:30.480 --> 00:08:31.000
[ �
00:08:34.780 --> 00:08:39.240
I'm probably not your guy because I'm not going to be, I could give it a shot, but I'm probably not
00:08:39.240 --> 00:08:45.040
gonna project everything that needs to go into that. The same thing for perhaps a country thing.
00:08:45.130 --> 00:08:49.980
It's like, yeah, well, it's kind of adjacent to some of the stuff that I do, but if you want
00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:57.480
something with super authenticity, I might not be your guy. Where let's say that whatever musical
00:08:57.640 --> 00:09:03.120
style there are certain aesthetics that are there that just supposed to be in that sound.
00:09:03.360 --> 00:09:03.460
Sure.
00:09:04.920 --> 00:09:12.480
If you are doing any kind of music, you want to at least be sort of like, if not steeped into that
00:09:12.580 --> 00:09:21.140
sound and knowing what is required to do that, to have it sound as contemporary or as legitimate as
00:09:14.460 --> 00:09:15.440
Mm-hmm.
00:09:21.140 --> 00:09:22.400
Sure.
00:09:21.180 --> 00:09:32.839
possible, let's say. I would, that would be my recommendation for anybody that that's kind of
00:09:23.060 --> 00:09:27.540
Along those lines, you're talking about essentially finding your voice depending on the type of
00:09:27.600 --> 00:09:29.340
music you're wanting to get into.
00:09:33.700 --> 00:09:39.220
Now let's say you're defining a new sound, like when 9-inch nails came out.
00:09:34.040 --> 00:09:42.960
going into this right? Yeah. Right? Yeah.
00:09:40.460 --> 00:09:45.520
That was kind of new territory, to say the least, especially with the way it blew up.
00:09:45.860 --> 00:09:49.860
What do you use as your marker for like, "Hey, this is how we're going to do it and we're
00:09:49.940 --> 00:09:53.040
kind of springboarding off of that."
00:09:53.040 --> 00:09:58.600
gets harder and harder on a daily basis to come out with an entirely new sound.
00:09:59.500 --> 00:10:03.620
Like to me, that was the last big explosion of a sound.
00:09:59.880 --> 00:10:09.500
Yeah. And yeah, I mean, something that had a little bit of longevity, shall we say, I would
00:10:09.580 --> 00:10:15.740
probably go along with that. But there have been, you know, other things past that, of course,
00:10:10.500 --> 00:10:11.200
Mm hmm.
00:10:16.060 --> 00:10:23.380
you could argue, perhaps that I think it was about the same time where Dr. Dre and his people that
00:10:23.500 --> 00:10:29.860
came out just about the same time and exploded as as the nine inch nails thing did. So there was that
00:10:27.860 --> 00:10:28.040
Yeah.
00:10:29.860 --> 00:10:36.180
And defining a new sound I think has more to do with the artist and the time when you're
00:10:36.240 --> 00:10:41.400
doing that, that all the stars have to kind of line up to do something and to have people
00:10:41.500 --> 00:10:43.580
actually be aware of that it's happening.
00:10:43.760 --> 00:10:49.280
Or if they're not aware of it directly speaking, they're all just in tune with whatever the
00:10:49.360 --> 00:10:52.100
sound is that the artist might want to focus in on.
00:10:52.820 --> 00:10:58.920
a new sound is, is, does it really only become a new sound when it becomes popular? Because,
00:10:58.040 --> 00:10:59.280
No, not necessarily.
00:10:59.650 --> 00:11:00.080
Not at all.
00:11:00.120 --> 00:11:04.720
you know, if you're doing something and it just never takes off and, you know, you can
00:11:04.760 --> 00:11:08.480
pat yourself on the back and go, well, it's just because I'm so new, nobody gets me.
00:11:09.959 --> 00:11:13.380
Well, if your tree fell in the forest and no one was there to hear it, did it matter?
00:11:13.680 --> 00:11:18.160
Exactly. Or maybe what you're doing just sounds horrible to people, you know, and it's never
00:11:18.240 --> 00:11:24.140
going to take off. And I think you have to be aware of these things, but as a mix engineer,
00:11:19.800 --> 00:11:21.220
That's that catch 22 right there.
00:11:24.680 --> 00:11:29.820
is that your job? Unless you're part of the sort of like the creative process. If you're
00:11:30.120 --> 00:11:34.960
getting a country track to mix, right? And you go, well, I'm going to put my stamp on
00:11:34.960 --> 00:11:38.980
this, I'm going to create something new and the end result ends up sounding like Slayer,
00:11:39.620 --> 00:11:43.240
know, that's probably a new sound. But is that something that
00:11:43.320 --> 00:12:06.440
somebody wants to hear? You know? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
00:11:45.240 --> 00:11:51.200
a good question. And we'll tackle that question right after this word from our sponsors.
00:11:52.960 --> 00:11:57.220
All right, the question was, if you were a mix engineer and you were given a country
00:11:57.320 --> 00:12:04.280
track and you injected the concept of slayer into it, do people want to hear it? That's
00:12:04.280 --> 00:12:10.959
a good question, I think. And here's here's here's a funny example of maybe just such a
00:12:10.960 --> 00:12:18.440
thing a few years back I had the pleasure of meeting a band that was really damn good and
00:12:18.500 --> 00:12:24.560
they were in that thrash metal kind of vibe along the lines of like God smack and maybe a slightly
00:12:21.860 --> 00:12:22.100
and
00:12:24.860 --> 00:12:30.920
more modern version of Metallica and things of that nature but they were from a small town a rural
00:12:31.520 --> 00:12:36.300
small town farming community and they were really good I mean there's no question about it I was
00:12:32.400 --> 00:12:32.560
and
00:12:36.400 --> 00:12:40.940
bobbing my head to the music I thought they were great I thought they had everything together
00:12:40.940 --> 00:12:47.220
except for an image and an actual like defining quality that would set them apart from the
00:12:47.260 --> 00:12:48.420
masters of their genre.
00:12:49.280 --> 00:12:54.460
In speaking to the promoter of the event where I saw this band, I mentioned to him,
00:12:54.460 --> 00:12:58.980
I said, "You know, you stick a band guitar on that guitar player and you dress these
00:12:59.080 --> 00:13:03.380
guys in overalls, they can still play the exact same music, but then they can start
00:13:03.480 --> 00:13:06.980
calling it 'Hillbilly Thrash', which nobody's done.
00:13:05.739 --> 00:13:05.920
Nice.
00:13:07.070 --> 00:13:07.520
Right?
00:13:07.500 --> 00:13:09.780
They defined their own genre right then and there.
00:13:10.540 --> 00:13:10.740
Yeah.
00:13:11.000 --> 00:13:13.960
And the promoter was just like, whoa, mind blown.
00:13:14.580 --> 00:13:15.440
And here's the thing.
00:13:16.060 --> 00:13:21.380
I've been waiting to give that example away for over a decade.
00:13:22.720 --> 00:13:25.200
done it. So, right.
00:13:23.400 --> 00:13:24.400
Well, I did it before, yes.
00:13:25.000 --> 00:13:28.400
And I actually got that concept from someone else.
00:13:28.760 --> 00:13:30.880
And the funny thing is, is that if you
00:13:30.880 --> 00:13:32.880
were to start running around and telling everybody
00:13:33.000 --> 00:13:35.140
that when they ask you, what do you sound like?
00:13:35.460 --> 00:13:36.660
And you say, hillbilly thrash.
00:13:36.820 --> 00:13:40.040
Most people are going to turn their heads like the RCA Victor dog and wonder what the
00:13:40.160 --> 00:13:40.660
hell that is.
00:13:41.840 --> 00:13:46.760
And to have a group of people that could get together and define that, not only from the
00:13:46.820 --> 00:13:50.860
band and the writing of their music aspect, but the recording engineer and the mixing
00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:55.320
engineer and everybody else that we're talking about in this, that starts to define a genre
00:13:55.460 --> 00:13:55.880
and a sound.
00:13:56.560 --> 00:14:03.160
It can. Yeah, absolutely. I'm also a little bit weary of now, I guess anything that kind
00:13:57.680 --> 00:13:57.780
Yeah.
00:14:03.160 --> 00:14:09.700
of comes out in its new and it's kind of defining a new sound is always looked at with a little
00:14:09.700 --> 00:14:15.100
bit of skepticism initially until it takes off. Anything in history that there's always
00:14:15.160 --> 00:14:19.279
been raised eyebrows about, oh, you're going to do what, you know, and it turns out to
00:14:18.200 --> 00:14:18.640
[laughs]
00:14:19.280 --> 00:14:24.540
to be successful and then everybody jumps on the bandwagon, right? But I think this
00:14:24.680 --> 00:14:33.700
has a fair bit to do with the artist and sort of like the marketability of that and perhaps
00:14:34.370 --> 00:14:46.220
a little bit less so with the recording aspect of it and the engineering aspect of it. Yes.
00:14:39.600 --> 00:14:39.680
Sure.
00:14:41.320 --> 00:14:44.960
But as a mix engineer, you have to be aware of where they want to go.
00:14:45.400 --> 00:14:51.360
You have to be aware of the genre that is going into the mix of the song or the album
00:14:51.820 --> 00:14:52.760
that you're working on.
00:14:53.540 --> 00:14:57.600
It's one of those things where we always like to say you need to communicate with the artist,
00:14:57.920 --> 00:14:58.040
right?
00:14:58.320 --> 00:15:04.520
So, you know, and that's like, hey, we're imagine 84 Metallica, but we're going to have
00:14:58.960 --> 00:15:09.520
much so. Now you're just you're jumping off my bridge.
00:15:04.940 --> 00:15:06.240
banjoes on it, you know?
00:15:06.800 --> 00:15:08.140
So it's like, okay.
00:15:10.180 --> 00:15:10.500
Right.
00:15:11.040 --> 00:15:12.860
So I'm going, yeah, all right, well, I'm in.
00:15:13.060 --> 00:15:14.100
Let's do this thing.
00:15:14.600 --> 00:15:20.220
You're at that part where you are sort of serving the song and the artist as an engineer
00:15:20.440 --> 00:15:27.200
and you're not necessarily crowbarring your sound onto whatever they are, right?
00:15:27.480 --> 00:15:32.880
So I think that that's an interesting angle where we have to kind of explore and see and
00:15:32.940 --> 00:15:38.080
then of course what you do with all of that with your know-how and everything, you can
00:15:38.100 --> 00:15:42.840
perhaps make that vision come to life, you know, and I think that's as a mix engineer,
00:15:43.160 --> 00:15:47.760
kind of our job. I mean, I've told this story before on the
00:15:43.360 --> 00:15:44.760
Sure.
00:15:47.820 --> 00:15:51.260
podcast here, but I think it's such a good story that it needs
00:15:51.260 --> 00:15:58.920
to be repeated. Where are? Well, maybe I just just edited in
00:15:53.920 --> 00:15:54.980
I set up a delay pedal.
00:15:58.960 --> 00:16:04.180
from before I was mixing an album last year, where I was
00:16:04.220 --> 00:16:08.780
essentially, you know, kind of shoehorning my sound onto a
00:16:08.820 --> 00:16:11.859
certain song. And it was when I got the mixed feedback back
00:16:11.860 --> 00:16:16.480
where the artist said, well, can we make the drums sound a little bit more fleetwood, Mac and less
00:16:16.620 --> 00:16:23.280
deaf leopard? Yeah. So it was one of those things where I'm take my static. This is how I like
00:16:23.360 --> 00:16:30.400
drums to sound. Right. And they go, No, that's not what I had in mind at all. Fix it. And of course,
00:16:26.780 --> 00:16:27.520
[laughs]
00:16:30.500 --> 00:16:36.579
we did but lack of communication on my part there. Right. That is important. Now, what is your
00:16:37.020 --> 00:16:41.640
thought on the more transparent the mix engineer is, as far as
00:16:41.680 --> 00:16:46.960
style wise, you are better suited for the song or the task at
00:16:47.020 --> 00:16:49.600
hand. Is that something that you would agree with or have a
00:16:49.620 --> 00:16:51.520
different take on or what do you think?
00:16:51.920 --> 00:16:55.240
I'm going to go out on a limb and say it's program dependent.
00:16:55.820 --> 00:17:04.220
And that comes with experience to know when to step back and just do a mix without,
00:16:59.980 --> 00:17:00.460
Yeah.
00:17:04.959 --> 00:17:11.640
as you say, crowbarring something onto it or with a sledgehammer pounding it into submission.
00:17:10.900 --> 00:17:11.120
Yeah.
00:17:12.699 --> 00:17:18.999
And when you do need to actually throw the atomic bomb at it and blow it up to
00:17:19.000 --> 00:17:23.640
whatever it needs to be. When you asked me earlier about whether or not I think I have
00:17:23.640 --> 00:17:30.400
a sound, and I said yes, the bigger point of where I probably should expand upon that
00:17:30.480 --> 00:17:38.360
has more to do with the way I actually separate instruments. Because I know a lot of my mixes,
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:36.280
Explain.
00:17:38.840 --> 00:17:45.879
not all of them, not 100%, but probably a good 90% is a lot of very clear definition
00:17:45.880 --> 00:17:49.280
between instruments where you can hear everything that's going on.
00:17:50.020 --> 00:17:50.240
Hmm.
00:17:50.480 --> 00:17:55.200
Rather than creating a wall of sound where shit gets lost.
00:17:55.400 --> 00:17:56.800
Okay.
00:17:56.160 --> 00:17:59.360
Now have I ever created a wall of sound where shit gets lost?
00:17:56.800 --> 00:17:56.880
Okay.
00:17:59.540 --> 00:18:00.160
Yes, I have.
00:18:00.280 --> 00:18:02.600
But that was what the song required at that point.
00:18:02.740 --> 00:18:09.000
But generally speaking, I like to be able to have the ear dive into any given point
00:18:09.000 --> 00:18:14.720
of a mix and be able to hear any given instrument that's happening, whether you're currently
00:18:14.720 --> 00:18:18.420
thinking about it or not, but if you go back and listen to it on another set of
00:18:18.540 --> 00:18:21.760
headphones or a different set of speakers, you'll find something in there
00:18:22.300 --> 00:18:27.820
that was defined in any given speaker arrangement that you heard it in, but you
00:18:27.860 --> 00:18:32.580
might not have noticed it as clearly if that makes any sense. So it's always there
00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:36.700
and it's always present, and I have a tendency to really get very good at
00:18:33.620 --> 00:18:44.780
Well, yeah. Yeah, it sounds to me like you're, you're striving for a mix where everything
00:18:36.820 --> 00:18:39.000
getting that definition between all the parts.
00:18:45.040 --> 00:18:52.120
has a purpose, right? It's not now, obviously, in a mix, something I'd like to say, a mix
00:18:45.720 --> 00:18:46.100
A purpose.
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:53.200
This is not a democracy.
00:18:53.920 --> 00:18:55.480
Not everything gets an equal say.
00:18:55.540 --> 00:19:01.300
So it's finding that place for something that it needs to be perhaps in the background,
00:19:01.540 --> 00:19:05.260
whether it's panning or level or spatial wise, right?
00:19:05.780 --> 00:19:07.680
I would probably agree with your assessment there.
00:19:07.700 --> 00:19:13.100
I think you do that quite well where everything is there for a reason.
00:19:13.520 --> 00:19:18.520
Even if it doesn't leap out, initially you listen, you lay back and you listen to something
00:19:18.620 --> 00:19:18.960
on the headphones.
00:19:19.600 --> 00:19:24.040
cool that I didn't hear that glockenspiel over to the left, you know, so
00:19:22.580 --> 00:19:25.080
I love my clock.
00:19:25.600 --> 00:19:26.900
Yeah, but but it's
00:19:27.540 --> 00:19:33.420
Interesting things like that. Can I think it'd be really really cool and even if you don't because I'd notice it initially
00:19:33.760 --> 00:19:37.860
I still go back to that with having a sound or not now you
00:19:38.540 --> 00:19:39.540
touched on
00:19:39.940 --> 00:19:42.240
experience as well and
00:19:40.080 --> 00:19:41.480
Yeah.
00:19:42.960 --> 00:19:45.260
It becomes almost one of those things that
00:19:46.300 --> 00:19:49.580
You know your experience gets you the next gig
00:19:49.900 --> 00:19:57.320
Right and it may be something that you are doing to a mix that that somebody's heard or
00:19:58.220 --> 00:20:00.860
You know we hear it all the time if somebody's on the charts like now
00:20:01.660 --> 00:20:05.020
Let's get that guy to mix our next record, right?
00:20:05.560 --> 00:20:10.940
And it is perhaps more of a marketing thing that you want to be connected with that
00:20:11.700 --> 00:20:18.320
Or you think that this person is actually going to add something to your production that you want added and
00:20:17.440 --> 00:20:18.840
Yeah.
00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:19.060
now.
00:20:19.460 --> 00:20:24.340
You know, we talked a little bit before we started recording here today, but somebody
00:20:24.840 --> 00:20:32.320
like Chris Lordalgy, does he have a sound or not? Because he works on a wide range of things,
00:20:32.500 --> 00:20:38.280
but I think most people would think that he has these mixes that are very sort of forward and
00:20:38.420 --> 00:20:45.700
punchy and relatively aggressive, right? So is that his sound or is it because he gets approached
00:20:45.700 --> 00:20:48.660
with, you know, projects that would be suited for him to do.
00:20:48.960 --> 00:20:51.000
That would be a question for him, not for me.
00:20:51.500 --> 00:20:51.980
(laughing)
00:20:51.640 --> 00:20:53.560
Yeah, not, but do you have a thought on it?
00:20:53.140 --> 00:20:53.760
And his brother.
00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:57.120
I mean, not, not necessarily speaking for him, but the same
00:20:57.160 --> 00:21:01.040
could be said for like, Dave Pinsotto or Bob Clear Mountain
00:21:01.280 --> 00:21:03.880
or whoever, you know, so it's
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:02.600
Uh-huh.
00:21:03.240 --> 00:21:05.660
I'll tell you, if I were an artist
00:21:06.220 --> 00:21:09.680
and I wanted probably one of the penultimate in sounds
00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:11.820
in the history of recording,
00:21:11.980 --> 00:21:14.400
I'd probably go to Jack Joseph Plig myself.
00:21:14.540 --> 00:21:14.880
Yeah.
00:21:15.520 --> 00:21:19.160
Well, the two albums that he did with Jellyfish,
00:21:19.980 --> 00:21:20.260
Right.
00:21:20.250 --> 00:21:21.880
I mean, those are just ridiculous.
00:21:21.890 --> 00:21:24.540
And they're considered like some of the greatest sounding
00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:26.760
records ever made by a lot of people,
00:21:26.900 --> 00:21:29.180
not everybody obviously, but there's a lot of people
00:21:29.320 --> 00:21:34.560
out there that hold those up as examples of amazing writing,
00:21:34.740 --> 00:21:37.700
amazing recording, amazing mixing,
00:21:38.140 --> 00:21:38.400
Yeah.
00:21:38.420 --> 00:21:39.960
the whole process on those albums,
00:21:40.080 --> 00:21:43.100
they're just so amazing with how they came out.
00:21:43.600 --> 00:21:45.300
And he was the mix engineer on that.
00:21:45.780 --> 00:21:51.760
If I didn't want to mix it myself, I'd go to him, especially for that kind of vibe
00:21:49.420 --> 00:21:49.500
Yeah.
00:21:51.860 --> 00:21:52.680
that he imparted.
00:21:52.500 --> 00:21:52.820
All right.
00:21:53.120 --> 00:21:55.400
Those are very, very good examples there.
00:21:55.500 --> 00:22:00.760
And I think those are cases where sort of like all the stars were lining up, you know,
00:22:01.080 --> 00:22:05.200
sort of speak with this songwriting, with the time and everything and the talent of
00:22:05.200 --> 00:22:07.760
of everybody involved and they created these works of art
00:22:07.600 --> 00:22:08.320
Of course.
00:22:07.940 --> 00:22:11.140
that have stood the test of time.
00:22:11.260 --> 00:22:13.960
It's just unfortunate that most people don't know about them.
00:22:14.600 --> 00:22:16.820
There's a talent in the know-how and the timing
00:22:17.180 --> 00:22:20.600
of everything that, for example, Tony Visconti
00:22:20.640 --> 00:22:22.040
when he worked with David Bowie,
00:22:22.260 --> 00:22:22.440
Mm-hmm.
00:22:23.300 --> 00:22:27.300
it was an explosion in like new gear
00:22:27.640 --> 00:22:28.420
in all this kind of stuff.
00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:32.880
And I think he had like a harmonizer at some point
00:22:32.980 --> 00:22:34.860
and they didn't really know how to explain it,
00:22:34.980 --> 00:22:40.380
But Bowie wanted that sound so that they started working together and had a very fruitful relationship.
00:22:40.680 --> 00:22:40.760
Right?
00:22:41.200 --> 00:22:47.620
So it's that talent in the time and everything and you sort of get known for a certain sound
00:22:47.720 --> 00:22:48.420
because of that.
00:22:48.800 --> 00:22:52.300
Yeah, I think the same could be said for maybe Mark Needham as well.
00:22:49.720 --> 00:22:50.240
So...
00:22:52.560 --> 00:22:58.040
He's been around a long time, but I would pause it to say that the Imagine Dragon guys
00:22:58.180 --> 00:23:00.860
probably met him because they lived in the same town.
00:23:01.450 --> 00:23:04.820
At least I'm assuming that Mark was living in Vegas at the time that they started coming
00:23:01.980 --> 00:23:02.340
Could be.
00:23:04.960 --> 00:23:05.040
up.
00:23:05.920 --> 00:23:11.020
quite possible that the Imagine Dragon guys just met him from doing local shows.
00:23:08.360 --> 00:23:08.800
Yeah.
00:23:12.040 --> 00:23:16.960
And he was there in the audience or something and wanted to work with him or they wanted
00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:17.760
to work with him.
00:23:18.320 --> 00:23:20.480
They created a sound just for them.
00:23:20.560 --> 00:23:21.000
Yeah.
00:23:21.260 --> 00:23:21.940
And it worked out.
00:23:22.380 --> 00:23:23.280
They became pretty big.
00:23:24.500 --> 00:23:24.740
(laughs)
00:23:24.880 --> 00:23:26.340
Yeah, they did all right.
00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:28.360
They did all right and continue to do all right.
00:23:28.500 --> 00:23:43.620
You know, I think as engineers, we are judged on the work that we've done and we sort of are possibly more dependent on the artists for our sound than it is something that we're creating by ourselves.
00:23:43.640 --> 00:23:50.240
It just happens because with our experience, the work that we've done, if we've done a good job, we get known for that.
00:23:50.900 --> 00:23:51.080
Sure.
00:23:51.180 --> 00:23:57.700
So I think initially, as we start out as mixed engineers, first, I would say just work as much as you can, right?
00:23:57.720 --> 00:24:01.440
And do whatever you do, but then find out what you're passionate and you're good at.
00:24:01.900 --> 00:24:01.940
Yes.
00:24:01.940 --> 00:24:13.600
us. Nobody's tall enough to.
00:24:02.180 --> 00:24:06.400
Like Dave Pensotto used to say, like, passion about something is not good enough.
00:24:06.760 --> 00:24:12.880
Like he said sometimes, yeah, I have a real passion for basketball, but I'm never going to be in the NBA, you know.
00:24:15.320 --> 00:24:19.780
Well, yeah, perhaps, but, you know, you need to be good at it as well.
00:24:20.100 --> 00:24:26.400
right? And then one thing will sort of breed the next. That doesn't mean that you need to
00:24:26.580 --> 00:24:32.120
necessarily pigeonhole yourself into one style of music and just doing that. But I think you find
00:24:32.240 --> 00:24:37.560
out where you're good at, you try to do that as much as you can, and then try to spread your wings.
00:24:38.040 --> 00:24:43.020
You know, if you're good enough at something, I think you can start, like I said, spreading your
00:24:43.080 --> 00:24:48.020
wings a little bit and trying new things. And then you see that either you're good at that as well
00:24:48.020 --> 00:24:56.500
or not. You brought up Trent Reznor, Narnia's Nails. He has very, very successfully managed to go into
00:24:56.799 --> 00:24:58.200
Yes.
00:24:57.100 --> 00:25:07.400
scoring. He's doing very, very well with that. Well, Atticus Ross, yeah, but he started as
00:25:00.820 --> 00:25:03.580
He partnered with somebody that was already really damn good at it.
00:25:07.820 --> 00:25:12.020
right-hand man, so to speak, to Trent, right, when they started their work in relationship.
00:25:12.900 --> 00:25:18.000
And then he found somebody he could trust, and then they were thrown at him this
00:25:18.000 --> 00:25:21.440
to needy to do the social network, right?
00:25:20.480 --> 00:25:20.620
Yes.
00:25:20.620 --> 00:25:20.760
Yes.
00:25:21.940 --> 00:25:23.400
And it kind of snowballed from there.
00:25:23.900 --> 00:25:24.860
Is style important?
00:25:25.780 --> 00:25:26.940
Maybe not as much as you think.
00:25:27.140 --> 00:25:28.720
Just do what you're good at and everything else
00:25:28.840 --> 00:25:30.740
will take care of itself, I think.
00:25:30.960 --> 00:25:31.740
All right.
00:25:31.220 --> 00:25:32.980
Without that would be my two cents, so.
00:25:34.520 --> 00:25:35.420
What do you think?
00:25:35.600 --> 00:25:40.420
Well, my two cents in that regard ends up being that you have to know the tools
00:25:41.100 --> 00:25:41.500
Yeah.
00:25:41.280 --> 00:25:44.140
that you're going to use and you have to be creative with them.
00:25:42.840 --> 00:25:43.000
Yeah.
00:25:44.840 --> 00:25:48.360
You also have to understand, especially from a mixed standpoint,
00:25:48.900 --> 00:25:54.640
how your listening environment may or may not influence all other listening environments
00:25:54.780 --> 00:25:57.840
that somebody's eventually going to listen to your mixes in.
00:25:59.080 --> 00:26:04.080
If you're not acutely aware of that, it can be a problem because it might sound fucking amazing
00:26:04.700 --> 00:26:09.000
in your little cubby of creation where you're doing the mix. But once it gets out into the world,
00:26:09.000 --> 00:26:14.120
it might sound like dog shit. And if it does that, you're probably not getting a whole lot of work.
00:26:10.720 --> 00:26:11.160
Yeah.
00:26:14.580 --> 00:26:19.340
to wrap this up again. Besides knowing your tools and your gear and getting out of it,
00:26:19.440 --> 00:26:24.700
what you want and the listening environment, all of those things. The last thing I would
00:26:24.800 --> 00:26:34.020
say then is if you're working on a genre that you are intimately aware of and knowing the
00:26:34.400 --> 00:26:41.000
aesthetics of that, that will influence how you treat the low end, how loud is the snare
00:26:41.000 --> 00:26:44.680
going to be, how much emphasis is going to be on the subs, all that kind of stuff.
00:26:45.020 --> 00:26:45.260
Uh-huh.
00:26:45.640 --> 00:26:47.220
How are we treating guitars?
00:26:47.440 --> 00:26:48.400
How are we doing anything?
00:26:49.130 --> 00:26:51.540
Then of course you can elaborate on that.
00:26:52.380 --> 00:26:57.520
One person that I wanted to mention here is primarily a metal mix engineer called Andy
00:26:57.620 --> 00:26:58.020
Sneep.
00:26:58.920 --> 00:27:03.880
And he is one of those that has basically a sound now, but I think he was one of the
00:27:03.940 --> 00:27:10.300
first ones to really start implementing the layering of samples onto drums in a metal
00:27:10.300 --> 00:27:14.900
context. So here's somebody that kind of took something that he was really,
00:27:15.060 --> 00:27:20.620
really passionate about and sort of expanded on it and basically rejuvenated
00:27:21.200 --> 00:27:26.020
this sound of a genre that can perhaps sound a little dated otherwise.
00:27:26.500 --> 00:27:26.620
Right.
00:27:27.020 --> 00:27:31.980
So should we have a style, Jody or not? Yeah.
00:27:29.480 --> 00:27:31.320
I think that's a personal choice.
00:27:32.340 --> 00:27:33.660
I can take her leave my style.
00:27:34.240 --> 00:27:35.600
I think it's all dependent on what,
00:27:35.740 --> 00:27:37.940
what your goal is and what you want to do.
00:27:38.110 --> 00:27:38.300
Yeah.
00:27:38.520 --> 00:27:41.860
I would be less concerned with creating a style
00:27:42.320 --> 00:27:46.040
because fans can come and go and primarily just be good
00:27:46.420 --> 00:27:49.040
at what it is that you do in presenting the song
00:27:49.160 --> 00:27:50.920
and the artist in the best way possible.
00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:52.420
And if you're not the producer,
00:27:52.540 --> 00:27:54.120
you don't really have a say in that anyway.
00:27:53.759 --> 00:27:54.320
[laughter]
00:27:54.280 --> 00:27:56.980
So it's like, no, rip.
00:27:55.040 --> 00:27:55.440
That's right.
00:27:56.120 --> 00:27:57.980
Do your job as the mixed engineer, damn it.
00:27:58.560 --> 00:27:59.800
And then if you do that well enough,
00:27:59.940 --> 00:28:02.820
and on top of that, if you're a decent guy or girl,
00:28:03.300 --> 00:28:04.640
people are gonna want to work with you.
00:28:04.620 --> 00:28:05.520
Damn straight.
00:28:05.700 --> 00:28:10.540
And with that, let's move on to our Friday finds.
00:28:11.020 --> 00:28:11.640
Chris, what do you got?
00:28:12.220 --> 00:28:20.760
I rediscovered an app today. It is called Centorial. In an old episode, we talked about
00:28:15.360 --> 00:28:15.700
Uh-oh.
00:28:16.220 --> 00:28:45.820
So, I am going to take this.
00:28:21.000 --> 00:28:27.700
synthesis. And for quite a few people, synthesis can be difficult. And we basically just, we don't
00:28:27.740 --> 00:28:33.460
really understand how the synths work. We just buy patches. And then we're slaves to those patches.
00:28:33.580 --> 00:28:41.600
Centorial is an application that helps you understand how subtractive synthesis works.
00:28:42.260 --> 00:28:48.060
It helps you listen to what it does. And it's basically a tutorial just like the name implies.
00:28:48.300 --> 00:28:57.300
Like Centorial, get it? But I know. But it has all these steps through it where one by one it
00:28:50.920 --> 00:28:51.340
So clever.
00:28:57.380 --> 00:29:03.180
adds new functionality for you to listen to it and recreate what is given to you in that app.
00:29:03.180 --> 00:29:09.600
So it's a really, really cool way to kind of boost your synth patch writing ability as it were.
00:29:09.860 --> 00:29:14.480
It's called Centorial. There's a demo for up to a certain amount of levels and then
00:29:15.100 --> 00:29:18.660
you can buy the whole thing. I think it's a really, really cool way to go because I think with
00:29:18.880 --> 00:29:23.280
synthesis, so many of us are just kind of like buying patches and going through them without
00:29:23.680 --> 00:29:29.680
really, really knowing how to dial in your own. So that's my find for this Friday. What about you?
00:29:28.960 --> 00:29:29.400
Rock on.
00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:29.740
video.
00:29:30.140 --> 00:29:33.340
I'm going to go with something that just came out in the last couple of days.
00:29:33.800 --> 00:29:37.980
It was announced by Universal Audio and it's called the Volt interface.
00:29:39.300 --> 00:29:45.220
And what separates this from their normal Apollo system is that you get the universal
00:29:45.720 --> 00:29:53.080
audio quality in a very small compact interface that has no onboard processing.
00:29:53.580 --> 00:29:58.660
This is just a USB C interface and it comes in three flavors as far as I'm aware of at
00:29:58.720 --> 00:29:59.340
this point in time.
00:29:59.390 --> 00:30:02.280
They have the Volt one, which is a one in two out.
00:30:02.850 --> 00:30:04.940
They have the Volt two, which is a two in two out.
00:30:05.010 --> 00:30:08.120
And then they have the Volt two 76, which is the two in two out.
00:30:08.640 --> 00:30:13.220
But it has an additional piece of capability to it that the Volt 1 and 2 do not have.
00:30:13.660 --> 00:30:20.400
The Volt 1 and 2 allow you to get like a tube preamp sound from the UA610 Mic Pre.
00:30:14.060 --> 00:30:14.120
Oh
00:30:20.820 --> 00:30:29.020
The 276 has the additional capability of also giving you an 1176 compressor limiter on the
00:30:29.120 --> 00:30:30.200
way in when you're recording.
00:30:29.680 --> 00:30:31.380
Nice.
00:30:31.080 --> 00:30:36.340
So I'm going to go with these three devices that have come out, the Volt 1, the Volt 2,
00:30:36.560 --> 00:30:39.300
the Volt 276 as being really amazing.
00:30:40.000 --> 00:30:44.540
You can use them with your iPad or your iPhone in addition to your laptop or
00:30:44.760 --> 00:30:48.960
your desktop computer, as long as it's got the USB-C connection capability.
00:30:49.420 --> 00:30:50.840
So I'm going with the volts.
00:30:51.240 --> 00:30:52.220
Cool.
00:30:52.540 --> 00:30:56.800
Yes. And while we've got your attention, we would like you to go to our website
00:30:57.120 --> 00:31:00.840
and sign up for our email list at inside the recording studio.com.
00:31:01.360 --> 00:31:06.540
Doing so gets you free presets for some slate digital stuff and for some
00:31:06.540 --> 00:31:18.020
audio stuff from both Chris and I. It also makes sure that you don't miss out on any future episodes of the podcast as well as our Tuesday tips that come out every Tuesday.
00:31:18.540 --> 00:31:27.460
And whenever we do a giveaway, you're automatically enrolled in the giveaway. You have to do nothing further in order to possibly win something.
00:31:27.540 --> 00:31:34.360
In addition to that, if you send us an email at goldstargoldstr@insidetherecordingstudio.com
00:31:34.800 --> 00:31:40.060
with the word "sound," you'll get something cool back in your inbox. If you have a topic of
00:31:40.100 --> 00:31:45.440
suggestion for us to explain in a future episode, contact us via the contact page,
00:31:45.940 --> 00:31:49.940
hint hint, at the website, and we'll put it into consideration for a future episode.
00:31:50.300 --> 00:31:53.860
And with that, I'll say, see you next week.
00:31:53.680 --> 00:31:55.840
See you, Jody. Thanks for listening, people.
