S8E2 Content Is The Strategy

WEBVTT
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Hello friends and welcome to season 8 of Inside Techcom with Zahra Mutabana.
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This season features a collection of conversations that explore the ideas, challenges, and opportunities shaping technical communication today.
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From AI and content strategy to leadership, product thinking, and the future of our profession.
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Each episode offers a fresh perspective from people doing the work.
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Let's get started.
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Season eight is proudly sponsored by LavaCon.
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Use discount code ITC26 to save$200 on registration for this year's conference.
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I'll share more about LavaCon later in this episode.
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Hello, listeners.
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Welcome to another episode of Inside Techcom.
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And today I am actually really excited because I get to pick the brains of one of the most modest writers on my team.
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We work together.
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So full disclosure there.
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Lindsay Riggs and I have been working together for the past six years at Blackboard.
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I've learned so much from her.
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And she's doing some really cool stuff.
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So this episode is all about what she's doing.
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And we are going to learn from her and pick her brains to really figure out how we can get there.
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So, audience, please tune in if you are a technical communicator, because this is going to be a very hands-on, not in terms of demo, but what Lindsay is doing at work that you can apply.
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And she actually gave a presentation recently, and we're going to talk about that as well.
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And I'm going to invite Lindsay to introduce herself and tell us a little bit about her presentation before we dive into our conversation.
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Lindsay, welcome to the show today.
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How are you?
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I am good, Sora.
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I am very happy that I finally got the invite to the show.
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You're our mini celebrity on our team.
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I always feel like I work in the background a little bit.
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I just feel like my whole career is about being a team player.
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So I am Lindsay Ricks.
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I just for geographic purposes, I am based near Ann Arbor, Michigan, just outside of Detroit.
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I have been a technical writer at BlackBod for over 20 years now.
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It always seems weird to say because it just it's gone by really fast.
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And I just didn't know that I would be doing it this long when I started.
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And I think, as Zora and I will touch on and we talk about, is I just really enjoy the hands-on approach and I enjoy the experimentation and the learning.
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And I just enjoy the craft of what we do.
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And I'm just really honored to be with the team that I have at BlogBot because I think I'm still here because of the people I work with.
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They're the ones that inspire me and they teach me things.
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And, you know, not just the technical writers, but also within engineering, I've always felt like we have a culture where we encourage and teach each other and share.
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And I don't know, I was just really excited when you invited me because it does build off that presentation.
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And then part of like why I decided to the presentation, I initially didn't want to.
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I had told our director that I just always feel so invested in what our team is doing.
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And so much of my energy goes into making us better.
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And sometimes it can be really hard to picture how to influence or help our field at large, right?
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Like, how do you have that influence?
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And one of the things that pushed me over was I had seen a lot about what we didn't like about AI.
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And I also heard from our company that they really just wanted us to transform with AI.
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So with those two things, it was like, well, I don't want to focus on what I don't want it to do.
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I'd rather think about what I do want to do with it.
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Like, what are the things I wouldn't mind having it help me?
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Like it just became an exploration.
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And then obviously part of it was probably anxiety.
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Like it was thinking about for the first time, I initially could not picture what our role would look like in five years.
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Like I felt like, you know, that moment you feel like I really understand what I'm doing.
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I really feel like I got the hang of this.
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And all of a sudden you're like, I don't have the hang of this.
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I don't know what our role will look like.
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And I thought, well, the easiest way is to start trying things and start putting, you know, my efforts and my voice into what that looks like.
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And I don't know what impact you and I will have, Zora, but it seems worth trying.
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And that's what my presentation was about was kind of encouraging.
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I don't know that we can say no AI and it's not here.
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Or I feel like it's any tool.
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Like I thought we've used a lot of different tools over the years.
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This one just happens to be particularly transformative.
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So it did benefit that in my career, I've always been willing to try whatever tool was given to us.
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So hopefully that gives you the background on like what pushed me into it.
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And the best part about it was just I also haven't had a chance to network with some more people on, you know, on LinkedIn and through work just by sharing our story.
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And we were in a meeting, and I thought this is my best time to invite her, and she would be accountable and say yes.
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So I put her in the hot seat there.
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My apologies for that.
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But this was right after she had done the presentation and she gave us her another walkthrough about it.
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And that's when I said, Lindsay, would you please?
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But it took me some courage to ask you.
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Wasn't that a good moment though?
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Because I would have said yes previously, right?
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But there's always this moment where you're like, Can I, should I, would I?
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Yeah.
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And there's always people intimidating us.
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Like, I'm aware of that.
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Like sometimes uh the way my brain works, people tell me, like, I can do some things quicker, but then you start to realize everybody has different strengths.
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And for someone like me, I still get intimidated by other people.
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Like, I always remember reading Tom Johnson's API documentation, and I was like, oh my lord, like I have a lot of thinking to do.
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I wish I had more time.
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I really want to dig into this.
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And it's like, I never feel like we have enough time.
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And now I laugh because like I see like when you lean into some of the things that become available, like AI, I'm like, oh, cool.
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Now I can do a little bit more of what he can do.
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But everybody has that person, Zora.
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So I'm glad you finally asked because it models a lot of things that I've done in my career was not always waiting to ask permission, it is going ahead and trying something or asking or doing it, because a lot of times people can't always picture or understand what you want to do.
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And only when you just try it or give them an example, then they see the potential more.
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So maybe that moment was good for both of us.
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You saw the presentation and thought, I've got a topic, you know, I've got a topic we can talk about, you know.
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Absolutely.
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You're right.
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I think the universe kind of brought that moment together for us, which is great.
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But I mean, I think in your intro, you kind of gave us that insight.
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I want to kind of dive into your presentation because I want to capitalize on what you you didn't just say content strategy, you said content is the strategy.
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I want you to kind of give us a little bit of background about your presentation and why you came up with that title, because that title was very intriguing to me.
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Why not content strategy?
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Why is content is the strategy?
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Honestly, it started with when Joe Walanski reached out.
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I said, Well, I'd be happy to, but you know, and here are the things that have been really what we've been working on and thinking on for the last year.
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And he was very open and supportive of like, what do you want to talk about?
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And I went back to my team and I said, Well, how do I choose what to make the talk about?
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And my our wonderful coworker, Ellen Hassel, said, Is there a way you can bring it together and find that thread?
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And so it was an example of when I used AI, like I gave it all the things we've been thinking about and like how would I frame it?
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And it evolved from there.
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But what it did show is there's a lot of lessons about what we do and what we deliver.
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And how do I shift that mindset?
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How do we show writers how to be indispensable in the AI era?
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What do you bring?
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You know, so one pillar of it was the things that we have naturally become experts at over the years through education, through experience, being that person who understands language, who develops standards, the way we write instructions, all those, you know, understanding in our audience, those when I looked at comparing that to like, well, and we had early success with AI.
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And I'm like, well, why did we have that?
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And a lot of it turns out is a lot of things we do well align very much with prompt engineering.
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And I think we were having early success because we were prompting better.
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Like we came with that natural way to kind of ask questions, and we naturally know how to take a problem and go step by step.
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It's the same thing we tell our customers.
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And like, are there ways we can transfer that?
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And then also learning like our understanding of language and the nuances and you know, there's more semantic, like with UI techs.
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It's not you could just pick different words, but understanding the semantic meaning of one word or another.
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And then also what was also inspiring was um I knew a lot of people weren't getting initially success, but what I found what was most impressive to me is we had spent a lot of years working on our strategy.
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And that's things like vocabulary, grammar, punctuation, our style, like what our consistency, right?
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And that paired with the same, we had very strong patterns and most of our help, you know, like what we generate, our release notes, our error messages.
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And when we fed the AI that our results were immediately better.
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And it really was, you know, it just kind of like it built one thing out of an after another.
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That's really part of what brought that presentation.
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And it's like we didn't learn overnight.
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And there was a group of us that really encouraged each other.
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I mean, you were one of them, Zora.
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I really I listened to your project with Liz, and you had a keyword around orchestration, or I would be watching how engineers did it, and I would think to myself, well, what does that look like with our role?
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And really what it brought to every time I brought it back is I thought about, well, what are we doing and how would we try it?
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And I do feel like we have a lot of encouragement and grace at BlackBod to try things, to learn, to they want us to use the tools, especially on our team.
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Like we have such strong leadership to say, bring your best self, but also be willing to experiment, be willing to say, this is how we think it could improve.
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And there's just so many avenues people can apply themselves.
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So that's what I was really bringing to the presentation.
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And I wanted to show too, it built, it didn't happen overnight.
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Like we built some custom agents and co-pilot.
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That's what we had access to first.
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And at the time I saw developers talking about skills, and I was like, I don't like how would we use that?
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It felt like every week a new term or a new methodology or a new workflow would be like, oh, that's really cool.
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How would I use that?
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Now, some are more obvious than others, you know that, right?
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I don't know how you felt about the pace, but a lot for me is the willingness to try things and what happened in that presentation always tied back to is it something that would be helpful for my role?
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Now I think, you know, that's early on.
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Early on, it's like improving our existing processes.
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I think you would also probably say we're now undercovering like new processes or new ways of working.
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And it's scary and intimidating and nerve-wracking.
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And the only way I know through, like when I'm anxious or nervous or I don't feel like I know something, the only way I know through is just try it.
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Because you always have the opportunity.
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I guess I think one of my favorite things about Git, and I tell that to our team, is like, just go create your branch, go try the thing, and if it does not work, just delete it and no one ever knows.
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Like, I love that we have tools that like help us secretly experiment without customers or peers even knowing, you know, you have to give your that yourself that permission to fail, to not be intimidated by the opportunity you get to to experiment with something because the more you try, the more new processes that we are discovering.
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So this actually brings me to the tools that I've been wanting to talk about.
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You've always been at the forefront of just diving in and using the developer tools or developer adjacent tools, right?
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Lindsay, what would you have some take on how somebody in that role or in that position should approach experimentation?
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I have a couple ideas.
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Like I think there's always opportunities to try to affordably try things outside your work.
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I laugh because I might be of the older crowd, I don't know of your audience, but I was that person in the 90s modifying my MySpace page, you know, or like wanting to play any HTML.
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I think I was a tinker, born tinker, right?
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So yeah, I did maybe have a propensity towards it.
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But along the ways, like I got my master's at Clemson, and in that professional communication program, one of the early things that inspired me in there was like they said, we're not gonna teach you the tool.
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We're gonna give you a project and then you're gonna have to figure out how to do it with a tool.
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And it was kind of a sink or swim crash course, but it was a really good philosophy because it is it really shifted my mindset around don't try to just use the tool, think of what you want to get out of it and see if you can do it.
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And that really kind of helped me through the years.
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So today looks like I didn't initially Blackbutt initially didn't even have Claude, but I wanted to do more agentic coding.
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And I didn't have necessarily early ideas for what I wanted to do that with our work, right?
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Like I always try to start with what I want to achieve and not just, hey, I want to try a tool.
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So what that looked like, I just started, I signed up for like one of the lower licenses for Claude Code, and I started building personal apps for myself, and that gave me permission to try.
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Like, I don't think I was good initially at some of my prompting, but what allowed me to do was just iterate and learn about like don't give it too many things at once, like layer on the requirements, have the vision of what you want it to look like, or give examples, or didn't even realize I was stumbling upon best practices, like giving a screenshot when you're like, no, you still have it wrong, like please fix it.
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That happened through the years.
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So if you don't have access to those tools that you have at work, you can try to find ways to do some of these things outside of work.
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My key thing there is start more with what you try want to try to accomplish with GitHub.
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If you wanted to build out, say you wanted more experience building out a personal website, a brand for your portfolio, you could learn about GitHub pages.
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And if you have that goal in mind of what you want to accomplish, it gives you more motivation of like how to learn how to use the tool.
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And not every training is going to be useful.
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You know, I listened a whole bunch through work and all of a sudden I might get like five ideas of things.
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Like I was like, oh, commands, oh, you know, plugins for skills.
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And I was like, okay, let me write that down.
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It was an interesting part I wanted to include in that conference talk is when you're thinking about things you want to learn or try, often you just need to start writing down the ideas or the things you want to do, but don't say, I have to do it right now.
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Just keep a list because you never know when like all of a sudden you're gonna have the idea that meets the tool.
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Like if earlier I learned about plugins, I've been like, cool, I don't I want to just create a plugin, but I'm like, well, what would I put in it?
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But now on our team, we started developing so many skills, I can now say to myself, I'd really like to bundle all of our analytics skills into one.
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Like I now have more of a purpose.
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So that's how I think I would inspire people.
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And if you think you might have access at work, but you're nervous, like that's the other angle, right?
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Right.
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Is um I would say the best thing to do is to obviously pay attention, like see, you can go to demos, you can see what people are posting in Slack.
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But my favorite thing over the years is just making friendships or just relationships with people at my work.
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So one of the things that early benefited from was having conversations and becoming friends with like my developers.
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And I was always so impressed and so grateful, they would often be willing to like show me how to do something.
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And oftentimes, or they would show me things and I was like, I don't know what they're showing me.
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And they would show tricks.
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Like one time I had developers show me this trick of like all this magic stuff that you can do in Visual Studio Code.
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And I was like, I'm never gonna find that again.
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That's magical, right?
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But yeah, I mean, and you start off sometimes just faking it.
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I don't know if you feel this way, but I remember the first person at BlackBot to teach me get and he's like, do these commands.
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I did those for the longest time, and I was like, I don't know what they mean until I made a mistake.
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And then all of a sudden, I didn't want to be the person that was like, holy crap, like, what did I just do?
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So went to Google, you know.
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I think that's a lot of it too, is taking the initiative to like seek out the answers, and that's part of curiosity is that problem solving, right?
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Is like, this is the error I got, how do I fix it?
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And then eventually it led to me be realizing I probably should learn what some of these commands are and what am I what I'm doing.
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And that's I think the way I approach a lot of these tools, just chip away at it, like and also be willing to stop using the tools if they don't bring you value.
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Yeah, it's not to say that you wouldn't have these nuggets before.
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I have always been like a painter's palette, I'm all over the place, Sora.
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There's always things I'm trying to do.
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I don't think so.
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I not not not right now, you are coming together, yeah.
00:17:45.279 --> 00:17:51.839
Now, but like through my career, I'd be like, I'd dabble in this and dabble in that, and I'd sign up for every like side project.
00:17:52.079 --> 00:17:54.400
I didn't know where it was all heading.
00:17:54.640 --> 00:17:56.400
And I always tell people that too.
00:17:56.480 --> 00:18:02.640
If you have the opportunity to say yes and you don't know why it would bring you value, just try it and then you'll store it.
00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:06.640
And then someday you're gonna be like, Oh, remember when you did that random thing?
00:18:06.799 --> 00:18:08.880
Like now that knowledge is valuable.
00:18:08.960 --> 00:18:11.599
So I do try to store those things away.
00:18:11.839 --> 00:18:14.079
Yeah, people worry a lot about that.
00:18:14.160 --> 00:18:16.400
They worry, like, how would I use this tool?
00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:19.039
Or how do I get it to do X, Y, and Z?
00:18:19.119 --> 00:18:23.759
And I always just try to encourage people to come back to like, what problem are you trying to solve?
00:18:23.920 --> 00:18:25.279
What would you like to be able to do?
00:18:25.359 --> 00:18:32.319
And if you have that strongly vision your head, it is so much easier to be like, okay, I'm gonna find how to do that piece.
00:18:32.559 --> 00:18:48.400
It comes together more naturally if you have a strong vision, especially like the more that you get to know what we do in technical writing, the more confident I feel about like all the things I've learned and done with content and content strategy.
00:18:48.640 --> 00:18:51.920
I feel like I keep pulling those tools out and just transform them, you know.
00:18:52.160 --> 00:18:53.599
So I'm trying for you, Zora.
00:18:53.759 --> 00:18:56.720
I'm trying to think about I can do this better, right?
00:18:56.799 --> 00:19:02.400
And right there are portions you of course can do better, but then it's like pivoting, you know.
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:12.079
Yeah, I want us to dive into some of the skills that we have developed to automate our workflows.
00:19:12.559 --> 00:19:16.079
And you have been at the forefront of those, of many of those.
00:19:16.559 --> 00:19:21.920
I like thinking of problems or pain points or exactly ass, right?
00:19:22.079 --> 00:19:22.160
Yeah.
00:19:22.880 --> 00:19:24.240
What problem can I solve?
00:19:24.559 --> 00:19:30.000
So you know, some of the earlier skills that you developed, once you discovered, oh, what is a skill and what can I do with it?
00:19:30.319 --> 00:19:34.480
How did you go about approaching that problem and solving it?
00:19:34.720 --> 00:19:39.200
Yeah, and it really was the way that I got a lot of team members to try it too.
00:19:39.359 --> 00:19:42.720
I was like, here's a little user, this is how you do it too.
00:19:42.880 --> 00:19:49.039
So one of the funny ones I laughed at myself is I think we all feel like we don't have enough time, right?
00:19:49.200 --> 00:19:53.440
And I never used to be the person that's like, oh, I'm too good for this task, right?
00:19:53.519 --> 00:20:03.279
Like I used to love the boring work, and I still do if you put music on, but you know, back in the day, we would do things like condition a specific word over and over again manually.
00:20:03.440 --> 00:20:08.559
And I had a moment where I just felt like I didn't have, I had so many asks coming in.
00:20:08.880 --> 00:20:14.079
And I had a moment where I was trying to get something, we all know this, trying to get a release note done, right?
00:20:14.160 --> 00:20:16.319
You know, that new feature done right in time.
00:20:16.720 --> 00:20:20.720
And I didn't want to forget the variables for localization.
00:20:20.880 --> 00:20:28.960
And I was sitting there, it was past work hours, I was reading the topic, and I really thought to myself, I don't ever want to do this again, right?
00:20:29.119 --> 00:20:30.319
So you have a moment.
00:20:30.559 --> 00:20:32.559
So that's how it started for me.
00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:37.759
Now I've probably evolved to like how I build skills differently, but that was my moment.
00:20:37.920 --> 00:20:44.079
And so what I did and what I tell other people to do is you don't start by saying, I want a skill.
00:20:44.319 --> 00:20:49.279
What I did instead was use AI to kind of outline what I wanted to accomplish.
00:20:49.440 --> 00:20:59.200
And I really had to shift my mindset, like how I approached it is I think initially when we think of having conversations, you have like one line here or there, right?
00:20:59.359 --> 00:21:04.400
But what I've been learning was try to give it everything I want to accomplish, like all the requirements.
00:21:04.480 --> 00:21:05.200
Who's it for?
00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:06.240
How do I want it to work?
00:21:06.400 --> 00:21:07.119
Any samples.
00:21:07.200 --> 00:21:08.960
I have, you know, give it an example.
00:21:09.200 --> 00:21:14.079
In this case, I told it like where the variable file was, and I wanted to see if it could do it.
00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:17.759
So I usually start some of my skills, I start by just saying, can you do this?
00:21:17.839 --> 00:21:18.799
I say that in my head.
00:21:18.880 --> 00:21:24.079
And so then I outline it, we have a conversation, I get to the point, you know, go back and forth.
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:27.759
A lot of times I start in plan mode, then I have it implement.
00:21:27.920 --> 00:21:32.319
And if it works the way I wanted it to, and of course I'm always surprised.
00:21:32.400 --> 00:21:34.640
I'm like, oh wow, look how amazing that was, right?
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:37.599
And I'm like, I really shouldn't be because how advanced it's gotten.
00:21:37.759 --> 00:21:44.000
But then I say, once you get it to solve your problem together, at the end, ask it to turn it into a repeatable skill.
00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:49.920
Now every time we laugh because sometimes it's like it'll be very judgmental, be like, that is not a skill, that's a prompt.
00:21:50.000 --> 00:21:51.200
And we're like, I don't care.
00:21:51.279 --> 00:21:52.960
I just want it to be repeatable.
00:21:53.200 --> 00:21:57.759
But that's how we've gotten like we had someone that wanted it, did the same thing.
00:21:57.920 --> 00:21:59.759
We're like, oh, we don't want to manually.
00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:00.640
Cleanup.
00:22:00.720 --> 00:22:04.880
We were switching all of our proprietary Mad Cap cross references to hrefs.
00:22:05.359 --> 00:22:06.720
And they had a good idea.
00:22:06.880 --> 00:22:14.160
And it was like started with a conversation, and we wanted to be like, well, we don't want to manually look for everything and fix it.
00:22:14.319 --> 00:22:19.599
Now there still is some cleanup to do because we want to like embed those links in the sentence.
00:22:19.759 --> 00:22:23.839
But same thing with another coworker came to her in the middle of the night.
00:22:23.920 --> 00:22:32.799
Like, could we have AI evaluate our content and suggest new synonyms and then have it add it to our auto index and synonym file for us?
00:22:33.039 --> 00:22:39.519
That was a really fun breakthrough because we were underutilizing them and we knew we wanted our search to be better.
00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:42.799
And that really just that's the spark for me.
00:22:42.960 --> 00:22:55.680
I know other you might think that I create a lot of skills, Zora, but everything I do is usually like someone just talking to people or seeing them work, they spark my next idea.
00:22:55.920 --> 00:23:00.720
And I think that I learned that just from doing leading analytics on the team.
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:02.640
There was uh another coworker, Justin Warren.
00:23:02.799 --> 00:23:06.000
I let have probably led it for most of my 20 years.
00:23:06.319 --> 00:23:09.759
And we felt very underprepared and unsure.
00:23:10.000 --> 00:23:12.400
There's so much to do with analytics and what we can do.
00:23:12.559 --> 00:23:16.880
And we just started back when we were in the office, we would just meet and talk about the data.
00:23:17.119 --> 00:23:19.920
And it just seems like we have these full circle moments.
00:23:20.079 --> 00:23:32.400
You know, I very much look forward to the conversations where we talk about AI or our jobs or our processes, because it's not always AI, it might be AI adjacent or similar tools.
00:23:32.559 --> 00:23:33.920
Like, how would we use them?
00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:37.039
And I just get inspiration from other people.
00:23:37.279 --> 00:23:38.799
I don't know if you feel that way.
00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:45.200
Like I said, you and uh Liz were doing orchestration work, and I thought I took it into like, well, what tools do I?
00:23:45.440 --> 00:23:47.759
I didn't have access to Copilot Studio at the time.
00:23:47.920 --> 00:23:50.799
But I thought to myself, what can we do well for now?
00:23:51.119 --> 00:24:04.720
And you also have to give your permission, yourself permission not to do it perfectly the first time, because I look back now going, wow, I knew a lot more about creating an agent or a skill, and like I really could have done this a lot better the first time.
00:24:04.880 --> 00:24:10.559
But I probably would have never gotten started if I'd waited to know everything about what we were doing.
00:24:10.799 --> 00:24:14.240
I don't know if you feel that way, but I do answer your question.
00:24:14.640 --> 00:24:31.279
And to be clear, not everything's by choice, you know, like who you work for or you know, what you see happening in the field, sometimes you get pushed into things not by choice, and you're thinking, it can be a reckoning moment where you're like, I really enjoy the way I work.
00:24:31.519 --> 00:24:43.839
And I think back to when I first started, I worked with some people, and I noticed that they had gotten really comfortable doing things the way they had always done them, and they were struggling.
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:55.519
They were struggling to adapt with we wanted to switch from Adobe Frame Maker to Madcat Flair, and that was a struggle, or we wanted to expand what we were doing so that we were more multi-purposeful, and that was a struggle.
00:24:55.680 --> 00:24:59.759
And I just really thought to myself, like, your examples can come from both good and bad places.
00:25:00.000 --> 00:25:04.799
And I thought to myself, like, there's gonna always be smarter people joining our team.
00:25:04.960 --> 00:25:07.599
And the one thing I can do is just learn from them.
00:25:07.759 --> 00:25:16.799
There's always like I love, like I love that I always have this philosophy that we each bring our strengths, and there's something I can learn from each person, you know, what people bring on the team.
00:25:16.960 --> 00:25:22.960
Like you have a great learning mindset and you love sharing it, and you love just talking about the field.
00:25:23.200 --> 00:25:25.039
I don't know that I could always say the same.
00:25:25.119 --> 00:25:28.960
Like when I'm at work, I am locked in, Zora, and I really enjoy it.
00:25:29.039 --> 00:25:32.880
But the moment work is done, I am not thinking about TechCom, right?
00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:36.799
Like I'm like, I have hobbies and I have things I want to do and I want to travel.
00:25:36.960 --> 00:25:40.880
And I need people like you to stay enthusiastic.
00:25:41.039 --> 00:25:44.079
Like you're like, oh, I like what they're doing, right?
00:25:44.319 --> 00:25:46.720
Or wow, they learn some new cool thing.
00:25:46.799 --> 00:25:53.599
And I still like we've had people on the team that are so good at Python and scripting, and I'm like, I still don't know what I'm doing with that.
00:25:53.839 --> 00:26:01.039
But they give me kind of a path forward of no, eventually I figure I will probably age out, right?
00:26:01.119 --> 00:26:02.480
We'll all age out.
00:26:02.720 --> 00:26:10.400
But at that point, I want to grow into like a mentoring, teacher, teaching, managing role when I know it's the right time.
00:26:10.559 --> 00:26:17.759
But for now, I don't know about you, it's been kind of stressful and chaotic, but still engaging.
00:26:18.000 --> 00:26:21.759
As long as you have that mindset, you can easily put yourself in either bucket, right?
00:26:21.839 --> 00:26:24.880
You can say, I know what I know, and I don't want to know anything else.
00:26:25.039 --> 00:26:25.519
I don't know.
00:26:25.599 --> 00:26:35.359
I just never feel like, even though I've become that position at BlackBot, you know, as one of the lead tech writers, I don't want to take that mindset and be like, I know everything.
00:26:35.440 --> 00:26:36.720
Like, I feel like the opposite.
00:26:36.799 --> 00:26:41.119
The more I learn, the more I know I need there's more to do, there's more to learn.
00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:44.799
And I think that helps is realizing everyone has something to teach you.
00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:48.400
Lindsay, you've been so candid with this conversation.
00:26:48.559 --> 00:26:51.440
So I think honest and transparent.
00:26:51.759 --> 00:26:52.960
I want to acknowledge one thing.
00:26:53.119 --> 00:26:54.559
You talk about mentoring later.
00:26:54.720 --> 00:27:00.160
I think with what you're doing right now, just sharing your knowledge, you are mentoring people.
00:27:00.240 --> 00:27:00.480
Yeah.
00:27:01.039 --> 00:27:05.440
Well, it is funny too, because I've had a lot of people that are like, oh, I mean, you said it.
00:27:05.519 --> 00:27:06.799
You're like, how do you know so much?
00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:07.519
Or how do you know?
00:27:07.680 --> 00:27:15.440
And I was like, I failed so many times, and people don't realize like when you fail, you have to figure it out, right?
00:27:15.519 --> 00:27:17.119
Like git is a good example.
00:27:17.279 --> 00:27:19.839
There's so much to learn, and like it's so powerful.
00:27:20.079 --> 00:27:22.720
And people are like, How do you know all these git commands?
00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:32.880
And I'm like, Well, I probably have broke everything or did the wrong thing or working out of the wrong branch, or I need to just get rid of all of it and restore.
00:27:32.960 --> 00:27:36.960
And like the way I learn is like you gotta break things, you gotta fail.
00:27:37.200 --> 00:27:46.079
And I know a lot of times we don't always give, especially in these high-pressure software environments, you don't always have the time you feel like to fail.
00:27:46.400 --> 00:27:48.240
But you don't have to share your failures.
00:27:48.319 --> 00:27:51.279
I don't mind sharing it because it's part of my learning process.
00:27:51.519 --> 00:27:57.680
Like, I think I don't want people to think I'm a pedestal and didn't and made no mistakes and it was easy for me.
00:27:57.839 --> 00:28:00.000
Like, I think that's a big part of it too.
00:28:00.160 --> 00:28:10.400
And I don't maybe it's a different way of looking at it, but we've really gotten a chance to incorporate people from different companies at BlackBot and bring new people in.
00:28:10.480 --> 00:28:16.000
And gosh, it's been just so refreshing to hear how other people work or how you know, or things they've tried.
00:28:16.079 --> 00:28:18.400
And that's what I think brings people together.
00:28:19.039 --> 00:28:24.000
I am not a very like extroverted, showy person.
00:28:24.160 --> 00:28:31.680
So, but you you were always so gregarious and put yourself out there, and so you're just you're brave in a way that I'm not usually brave.
00:28:31.759 --> 00:28:32.160
Oh gosh.
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:35.839
Yeah, I got asked a question once and I think they misinterpreted it.
00:28:36.000 --> 00:28:44.880
They're asking, like, I had done an exercise, and I don't think I did as well as I could, but they asked me, like, if I could go back and do it again, what would I do differently?
00:28:45.039 --> 00:28:47.759
And my answer is I wouldn't go back.
00:28:47.920 --> 00:28:56.880
Like, it is more important for me to learn from what I did before and incorporate those lessons or what I didn't do well.
00:28:57.039 --> 00:29:00.640
It's like there's no way we can ever revisit all our mistakes, right?
00:29:00.880 --> 00:29:03.920
But what we can do is say, what would I do better next time?
00:29:04.079 --> 00:29:12.480
And I think that's the point that I missed because I want to show people, especially in our team, that are kind of like they're overwhelmed as I don't want to think I'm not overwhelmed.
00:29:12.559 --> 00:29:19.519
I want people to know that every week there's something new that I'm like, oh boy, like I just feel that pressure and not having enough time.
00:29:19.599 --> 00:29:27.119
And I want them to know that I feel it too, because they might feel the same way and just understand that like we can't go fix the, it can't go change the past.
00:29:27.200 --> 00:29:29.440
Like it would be nice, but maybe not.
00:29:29.599 --> 00:29:37.440
Like maybe it's better that we collect these experiences and this knowledge and this effort, and we try to just do better the next time.
00:29:37.519 --> 00:29:40.799
Like, what would I do next time when I approach this situation?
00:29:41.039 --> 00:29:44.240
I I think that's the way like common sense gets developed.
00:29:44.319 --> 00:29:58.240
It's like I'm just building this, you know, lifelong experiences and I still do really dumb things, or I don't, I'm not maybe always like I try to be empathetic enough or understand people's positions.
00:29:58.480 --> 00:30:01.039
I think one of my early managers helped with that.
00:30:01.279 --> 00:30:06.319
He retired from Black Blood, but what he talked about was trying to look at for what each person's strengths are.
00:30:06.559 --> 00:30:09.519
Because we would always you always get in the habit of like, well, comparing yourself.
00:30:09.680 --> 00:30:10.480
Am I doing enough?
00:30:10.640 --> 00:30:11.599
Am I at that level?
00:30:11.759 --> 00:30:15.200
And I was very uh like achievement oriented.
00:30:15.279 --> 00:30:17.440
I wanted to really earn those promotions.
00:30:17.759 --> 00:30:19.920
And comparison is a thief, right?
00:30:20.000 --> 00:30:25.759
And so what I needed to do instead was learn like what good for me may not be good for them.
00:30:25.920 --> 00:30:27.200
Maybe they bring other strengths.
00:30:27.359 --> 00:30:37.680
And that's really like just a maturation I had to bring to it is just understanding it's not fair in the way you think, you know, like especially if you're like, well, they're a senior and I'm a senior.
00:30:37.759 --> 00:30:46.079
Like, are we doing like, no, you have to figure out what they're doing or bringing, and you also don't even know what their burden or what their work is.
00:30:46.240 --> 00:30:48.160
You don't may not know everything they're doing.
00:30:48.240 --> 00:30:52.720
And I've that's one of the things I've really been trying to work on, especially the mentoring.
00:30:52.960 --> 00:30:59.920
I never knew if I wanted to go into people management, but I do love the coaching and the mentoring.
00:31:00.079 --> 00:31:04.319
And I know everybody wants to keep me as an individual contributor, but I just like both.
00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:06.160
That's where I think the natural shift.
00:31:06.240 --> 00:31:35.200
I hope someday that when I move to a manager position, it could be more of like that mentorship and that growth mindset versus like I'm I'm gonna be selfish and to say that I want you as a manager, as the lead principal, yeah, technical writer, because you bring such amazing, I guess, advances to like you said, you know, you're picking up from ideas that others have shared and and actually going and trying to problem solve that.
00:31:35.599 --> 00:31:40.480
But yes, either way, if you had to become a people manager, I think you would have my vote there as well.
00:31:40.720 --> 00:31:46.480
But I I I'm selfishly going to recommend that you stay the individual contributor because because you are a thought leader.
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:58.240
I might grow a little like group of power people who someday people will surpass me and just as tell me, and I'll know that that's the right time.
00:31:58.319 --> 00:31:59.839
Like I will have grown.
00:32:00.240 --> 00:32:04.319
This is a very stereotypical question, and I know we don't have the answer to that.
00:32:04.880 --> 00:32:10.880
But you've been part of this journey over the last few years, and I'm sure you did not anticipate that you would be here today.
00:32:11.279 --> 00:32:17.279
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00:32:43.920 --> 00:32:53.039
But what's one prediction that you think about AI and technical communication that you think sounds bold today, but will be obvious, but will feel obvious in five years?
00:32:53.599 --> 00:32:54.720
I really did think about this.
00:32:54.880 --> 00:32:58.960
You shared that in advance because I really had a chance to think about it.
00:32:59.200 --> 00:33:12.319
And what I really came up with is I think often we think more about how AI will replace what we do, because it can write and we can all be more like, okay, but I'll provide style docs.
00:33:12.400 --> 00:33:16.880
And like we're thinking of ways that it replaces portions of our role or makes our life easier.
00:33:17.039 --> 00:33:36.880
But my bold prediction is if we position our skills, our expertise, our, you know, especially with things like language and communication, I could very much see our role expanding that we'd be able to do much more than we do today, because so much to me of what is strong AI is language.
00:33:37.039 --> 00:33:53.440
You know, you see companies like Anthropic hiring, you know, the people who are creating Claude hiring language and communication experts because I mean, I think we all know there's so much fascination and semantic meaning, and there's so many nuances with our language and how we communicate it.
00:33:53.519 --> 00:34:00.000
And it might be like slang or jargon, and it can have content that sounds perfectly well.
00:34:00.160 --> 00:34:05.039
But I think what becomes interesting is like I think our rule becomes more than a writer.
00:34:05.119 --> 00:34:18.239
I think we take our language skills and we are able to do more, whether it's architecting AI skills or orchestration, or there's a lot we can do with prompt engineering.
00:34:18.400 --> 00:34:25.519
I don't feel like we say enough about how our language and communication skills are a benefit.
00:34:25.760 --> 00:34:29.679
So if I had a prediction, and I don't know what that title will look like.
00:34:29.840 --> 00:34:40.239
I think we've we we know that titles change, but that's my bold prediction is that you could probably find yourself more useful today than you thought you did, especially if we lean into the problem solving.
00:34:40.320 --> 00:34:46.320
Like those are two areas, like one of your questions I was I was thinking about was what are the things people can work on?
00:34:46.559 --> 00:34:50.239
And it's really like the critical thinking and problem solving.
00:34:50.400 --> 00:35:02.159
Because if you like we were talking about all these problems we're trying to solve, is such a differentiator that I think those are like the gateway to like how we expand our skills, like what we're able to do.
00:35:02.320 --> 00:35:04.800
And it does bleed our role in different ways.
00:35:04.960 --> 00:35:13.280
Like, especially I've always, I don't know if you feel this way, it's always been such a benefit that we get to work with so many people across the company in a role.
00:35:13.360 --> 00:35:25.679
You know, obviously customers, they're our forefront, but we work with engineers and product managers and customer success or your support team and marketing, and you just feel like you start collecting information.
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:38.400
And I think a big part of that is like being able to do really great research and understand having that vision and saying, you know, I actually can do these things that you didn't think I could do because I have this skill set.
00:35:38.719 --> 00:35:43.440
I just think it's a matter of how do we explain all the things that we can do.
00:35:43.599 --> 00:35:50.719
And one of the only ways I know to do it, as you know, is build an example, show that we can do something you didn't think we could do.
00:35:50.960 --> 00:35:52.639
So that's my bold prediction.
00:35:52.880 --> 00:36:00.400
I think because like even I think I told you, I was like, I think we all have that fear, like, will AI replace us?
00:36:00.719 --> 00:36:06.719
And it might replace the version of ourselves that we were two years ago before this kind of landed, right?
00:36:06.800 --> 00:36:09.039
Before this tool became accessible.
00:36:09.280 --> 00:36:11.679
And there will always be money restrictions.
00:36:11.760 --> 00:36:20.320
It can be very expensive, but it might replace that version of myself five years ago, but I might become, I think our role can become, you know, expanded.
00:36:20.559 --> 00:36:22.079
I don't know, do you feel that way at all?
00:36:22.239 --> 00:36:30.960
Like it often, I think we often talk about too much about like, I don't want it to do this, or I don't want it to, I'm worried it's gonna replace this part of your role.
00:36:31.039 --> 00:36:34.320
And it might, but I do feel like we are capable of more.
00:36:34.800 --> 00:36:43.599
As you were talking about, I think the the one thing that stood out for me in everything as you were speaking was the version that you were a couple of years ago.
00:36:44.159 --> 00:36:48.559
That version is gonna be replaced, and it has already been replaced, in fact.
00:36:48.639 --> 00:36:49.280
Yeah, yeah.
00:36:49.519 --> 00:36:49.760
Right?
00:36:50.239 --> 00:37:02.800
Oh my gosh, in some ways I don't mind how I think you and I uh you and I talk about like how things have changed, and I don't think I'll miss the person who the way I used to have to collect information, you know.
00:37:02.880 --> 00:37:10.960
Like I don't mind how I enjoy in conversations with developers, but you know, I don't know, do you ever feel like you're like there's their time is as valuable as mine?
00:37:11.039 --> 00:37:17.920
I don't want to use too much to like gather information and I want to make sure I'm reviewing the UI and everything I can do.
00:37:18.000 --> 00:37:23.119
And I may not always be comfortable kind of understanding how the code is talking to each other.
00:37:23.440 --> 00:37:29.119
And I enjoy now that my first draft can be collected from the source code.
00:37:29.360 --> 00:37:38.719
I think that's probably the skill I'm most excited about is when we're setting up MCP, having all of our different systems talk to.
00:37:38.960 --> 00:37:43.679
I'm starting to see the Lindsay that I see at work, get it all connected, right?
00:37:43.920 --> 00:37:49.679
And I like, and it obviously depends on all the pieces being, you know, doing its part in place.
00:37:49.760 --> 00:37:52.639
But with AI, I noticed all these pieces are getting a little better.
00:37:52.800 --> 00:38:01.360
Yeah, but it's like, oh, they put some really great outcome or background information and the user story or the feature, like in that ticket about why we're doing the work.
00:38:01.519 --> 00:38:02.960
Cool, grab that, right?
00:38:03.119 --> 00:38:17.440
And then, and this is all within like whether I was using GitHub Copilot and Visual Studio Code or using Claude and their connectors, and then I go out and I go, hey, here's the pull request, or here's the the source code repo.
00:38:17.679 --> 00:38:19.440
Tell me what changed.
00:38:19.679 --> 00:38:22.559
And honestly, it's like such a relief.
00:38:22.639 --> 00:38:31.360
Like my first relief with AI was thinking, wow, I feel like the content is good, but I don't want to have to use someone else's time to make sure my grammar and punctuation are correct.
00:38:31.440 --> 00:38:33.280
Like we've always had really strong reviewers on the team.
00:38:33.440 --> 00:38:34.960
I'm like, but they're busy too.
00:38:35.119 --> 00:38:41.440
So it started with something minor there was like, wouldn't it be nice if I actually wrote a proper sentence or like grammar?
00:38:41.519 --> 00:38:47.119
I didn't, you know, because I feel like I write more with intuition from all my years of English classes.
00:38:47.280 --> 00:38:51.119
Not always, I mean, we have some people in our team that like they know all the rules.
00:38:51.199 --> 00:38:53.519
They can name them, they can like identify them.
00:38:53.599 --> 00:38:54.639
They're like, boom.
00:38:54.719 --> 00:38:57.280
And I'm like, mmm, that is not my strength.
00:38:57.360 --> 00:38:59.599
Like, you have to recognize what not your strength, right?
00:38:59.760 --> 00:39:02.719
So that was like my first like, ooh, wouldn't it be nice?
00:39:02.880 --> 00:39:15.039
And then now the part I'm most excited about is saying, I can give my dev team, like my product manager and engineers, a first draft that is based on what the source code tells me it's doing.
00:39:15.119 --> 00:39:18.400
Now it still misses a few things or interprets it incorrectly.
00:39:18.559 --> 00:39:20.000
That's where like I come in.
00:39:20.159 --> 00:39:22.320
But man, is it a time saver?
00:39:22.400 --> 00:39:26.960
Especially as you know, I don't always feel confident with like documenting API changes.
00:39:27.039 --> 00:39:30.880
I can look at their PR request and be like, what did we do now with this endpoint?
00:39:30.960 --> 00:39:32.400
And what does this endpoint do?
00:39:32.639 --> 00:39:48.880
And now that could take, and we were making, you know, we're having developers help us with the first draft, and then you gotta, you know, they're busy and you're trying to interpret what they meant, and you're like, that doesn't sound like what we should say, and you're trying to, but now the first thing is have it review that pull request and do the first draft.
00:39:48.960 --> 00:39:53.039
And I'm like, yeah, like those connections feel the confidence, right?
00:39:53.199 --> 00:40:05.039
I think yeah, you just it feels just like we can keep up with the pace because we know that everybody else is being challenged as well with the pace, and they're not gonna stop development for us, you know.
00:40:05.199 --> 00:40:08.719
They're not gonna, you know, if anything, they're being asked to speed things up.
00:40:08.960 --> 00:40:18.000
You know, I know at our company they're asking them to do less manual coding and more agentic coding and you know, developing those specs, those requirements.
00:40:18.239 --> 00:40:19.920
So, how do we fit in there?
00:40:20.000 --> 00:40:21.519
How can we bring that pace?
00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:30.480
And honestly, it's just like, oh wow, I well, I don't know if you feel that way, like, but using like trying to test everything in the UI, you're like, did I conditionally get everything correct?
00:40:30.559 --> 00:40:32.079
Did I do all the scenarios?
00:40:32.239 --> 00:40:37.519
And there's a relief in knowing I have a better starting place, like it really can audit.
00:40:38.800 --> 00:40:41.760
I mean, I started just cloning the repo, right?
00:40:41.840 --> 00:40:46.400
Being like, and then go around in the chat and being like, tell me what you're what you like, just tell me everything.
00:40:46.639 --> 00:40:51.440
And then I'd have to sort through and figure out, like, oh yeah, that's like not something we tell a customer.
00:40:51.679 --> 00:40:58.000
But now, like getting, you know, I'm that's the next phase I want to do is figure out how to make MCP more accessible to the team.
00:40:58.159 --> 00:41:03.920
And it's gonna be a challenge because I feel like the greater these tools get, they can be fussy.
00:41:04.000 --> 00:41:05.119
Have you felt like they're fussy?
00:41:05.280 --> 00:41:05.920
Well, absolutely.
00:41:06.000 --> 00:41:14.719
Yeah, I think I wasted at least an hour today when Claude all of a sudden stopped using my Azure MCP that was working and it didn't tell me why it stopped working.
00:41:14.800 --> 00:41:16.480
And I had to change all the config again.
00:41:16.559 --> 00:41:19.599
And you're like, How am I gonna teach resiliency?
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:26.239
That's like my next conflict, my next dilemma is like I do think about some things I feel like are easier to teach our team members.
00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:29.119
Resiliency is hard to teach, you know.
00:41:29.360 --> 00:41:35.199
But it feels like you need that with these tools because once you it can feel resilient and you get it working again.
00:41:35.360 --> 00:41:39.039
Wow, the payoff is nice when you can get these things to each other.
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:57.519
So if you don't, then maybe this is an opportunity to bring that to your executives and ask for that access because it can enable you and Yeah, I had I had someone ask me that and they're like, Well, I don't have like we are very lucky to have access to the source code, like the reader.
00:41:58.000 --> 00:41:59.440
And they're like, How do I ask for it?
00:41:59.519 --> 00:42:02.480
And I'm like, Well, part of it is is your company pro AI?
00:42:02.639 --> 00:42:10.800
And if they want you using it, then one of the first things you can just ask for is can we find a way for me to have read-only access?
00:42:11.039 --> 00:42:23.119
I very much respect safety nets, and you're not trying to make you know changes, but a lot of what we do just requires pulling the information from the different sources and then acting on it in our content.
00:42:23.280 --> 00:42:34.719
And that maybe is one of the first ways to have that talk is like working with either an engineer and engineering managers or like who's in charge of it and saying, are there ways we can work it out so I just have read-only access?
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:38.719
Because look what I'd be able to do to keep up with the pace of engineering.
00:42:38.880 --> 00:42:41.840
And it's not going to solve every time, but there might be other options.
00:42:41.920 --> 00:42:55.280
You know, maybe you could have I've had developers like with our some of our code create uh markdown content that like you know keeps it's something for themselves, but it's also in the code that says this is everything it's doing.
00:42:55.440 --> 00:42:59.199
Well, what if there's a way for them to generate these in a place you do have accessible?
00:42:59.360 --> 00:43:02.800
It's just kind of like every problem is like, well, is there another way to do it?
00:43:02.960 --> 00:43:06.639
In a way that it's not an obstruction or taking a lot of time.
00:43:06.800 --> 00:43:10.719
It's trying to find those ways to be like, listen, I would like to be able to do this.
00:43:10.800 --> 00:43:19.679
And so, yeah, sometimes you do need permission, and you know, like we are very lucky that we are given access to these tools, but the the it's lucky, but it's also like, well, now show me what you can do.
00:43:19.920 --> 00:43:21.119
You know, you have access.
00:43:21.280 --> 00:43:23.199
What are all the things you can do?
00:43:23.440 --> 00:43:26.239
And so it's a blessing and it's a burden.
00:43:26.719 --> 00:43:28.320
Because it can be a burden, that's what we're doing.
00:43:28.480 --> 00:43:38.800
Yeah, maybe you initially can't do something with the source code, but maybe if you showed other ways you're using MCP, like what you could accomplish, what information do you have access to at your work?
00:43:38.960 --> 00:43:40.480
Is there something you could show them?
00:43:40.639 --> 00:43:42.079
Be like, here's what I've done here.
00:43:42.159 --> 00:43:49.199
I would like to do, you know, like can you I do often have success showing a proof of concept, not just an idea.
00:43:49.360 --> 00:43:51.760
A lot of people are very easy to shut down ideas.
00:43:52.159 --> 00:43:53.920
I would set up an MCP connection.
00:43:54.079 --> 00:43:55.599
What does MCP stand for?
00:43:55.920 --> 00:43:57.360
Model context protocol.
00:43:57.599 --> 00:43:58.000
Thank you.
00:43:58.320 --> 00:43:59.840
I believe, I think Anthropocon.
00:44:00.159 --> 00:44:01.920
Topic came up with um the model.
00:44:02.000 --> 00:44:08.239
So like I believe that they were the ones to say we need a standard for how we communicate between systems.
00:44:08.400 --> 00:44:19.519
To me, it's like uh just a different variety of an API because you're making these calls and getting, you know, passing information back and forth is just a different protocol for the thanks for explaining that.
00:44:19.840 --> 00:44:35.679
It still uses tokens, it still uses tokens equal, like you know, portions of words and money, but I bounce between almost every AI chat tool that we have, whether it's Microsoft co-pilot or GitHub co-pilot, Claude, I'll even on my phone do Gemini.
00:44:36.320 --> 00:44:38.559
I don't know something, I ask it.
00:44:38.719 --> 00:44:40.159
So I'd recommend people do that.
00:44:40.239 --> 00:44:43.280
You can ask it to also tell it to you for your role.
00:44:43.599 --> 00:44:45.519
I mean, that's how I learned a lot of these things.
00:44:45.599 --> 00:44:52.880
I was like, like I wanted to know how we might use tools, you know, like there's like different things I was learning in training.
00:44:53.039 --> 00:44:55.519
How we use commands, like give me an example how I would do it.
00:44:55.599 --> 00:44:58.079
And I didn't like all the examples, but it might spark something.
00:44:58.239 --> 00:45:06.000
And the other thing you can do is like if you have something, like we just turned, we were in Visual Studio Code and we initially used GitHub Copilot.
00:45:06.079 --> 00:45:07.599
Now we can turn Claude on there.
00:45:07.840 --> 00:45:10.000
Same thing with uh the Claude desktop.
00:45:10.239 --> 00:45:16.320
You can ask it to create the config for you, or like whatever you're trying to do, be like, it does not hurt to ask.
00:45:16.480 --> 00:45:18.480
Be like, can you do this for me?
00:45:18.719 --> 00:45:20.800
I mean, it could troubleshoot you things too.
00:45:20.880 --> 00:45:28.880
You just have to think about like we were having an issue with a Microsoft product, so you might want to go use Microsoft Copilot to say, how do I fix this?
00:45:29.039 --> 00:45:31.039
Like it was clearly some kind of Windows issue.
00:45:31.199 --> 00:45:37.440
And I'm like, well, this Microsoft co-pilot is trained on Microsoft's documentation.
00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:38.480
Maybe they can help us.
00:45:38.559 --> 00:45:42.000
And I think we went through like, don't give up if it first doesn't work.
00:45:42.159 --> 00:45:42.880
That's part of it.
00:45:43.039 --> 00:45:44.719
I will just keep trying.
00:45:44.880 --> 00:45:46.800
And we were laughing about that in a meeting today.
00:45:46.960 --> 00:45:53.360
We're like, you know, sometimes the first suggestion it tells you how to do something, you're like, wow, that is way too complicated.
00:45:53.440 --> 00:45:55.119
Like, I don't feel comfortable doing that.
00:45:55.440 --> 00:45:58.079
So you just go back and say, are there any other ways?
00:45:58.239 --> 00:46:00.159
Like, I don't know how to do that.
00:46:00.239 --> 00:46:06.559
Like, or if it doesn't sound like something like security-wise, like you're like, yeah, I don't think that's the best.
00:46:06.880 --> 00:46:08.719
Like, just try to see if there's another way to do it.
00:46:09.199 --> 00:46:14.400
Never now and then you're like, it gives you an easy way, and you're like, why didn't you suggest that in the first place?
00:46:14.559 --> 00:46:16.800
Like, oh my gosh, that's so much easier.
00:46:16.960 --> 00:46:26.559
Like, I fussed a long time with Azure, and it just came down to just running AZ, I was AZ login in the terminal, and I was all of a sudden authenticated.
00:46:26.719 --> 00:46:31.760
I was like, oh my gosh, that was so much easier than however you were authenticating before with tokens and whatnot.
00:46:31.920 --> 00:46:33.039
I was like, oh please.
00:46:33.360 --> 00:46:34.480
Yeah, that's so true.
00:46:34.639 --> 00:46:40.880
And you know, use these tools to your advantage, Lon, and they're not gonna judge you, which is the robot, it cannot judge.
00:46:41.039 --> 00:46:43.920
I mean, it might judge you, but that's just fake stuff that they programmed.
00:46:44.559 --> 00:46:49.440
So as we wrap this up, do you have any thoughts that you want to share that you may not have?
00:46:50.079 --> 00:46:57.199
There was one thing that I thought about that influenced my career based on one of the questions you uh previously have asked me.
00:46:57.440 --> 00:47:01.280
And it was what is it from Daniel Pink's drive.
00:47:01.440 --> 00:47:07.039
Early Blackbot over the years has picked different philosophies to engage or talking about employees.
00:47:07.280 --> 00:47:19.840
And I was like, out of all the things, one thing really stuck me with you is his, which is a fully engaged person once you meet all their basic needs and financial needs, needs autonomy, mastery, and purpose.
00:47:20.079 --> 00:47:24.880
And so those things stuck with me because obviously I have the purpose.
00:47:25.039 --> 00:47:36.880
A lot of it has to do, it is the customers, like they make it so easy because what we do, like helping nonprofits, anything we help them, I feel like the impact compounds, but it's always been the people I work with.
00:47:37.039 --> 00:47:41.440
Like they help give me purpose and excitement, and I just enjoy working with them.
00:47:41.679 --> 00:47:50.239
But the other thing that drives me is like, yeah, I want to feel like I have autonomy to make decisions and do my best work.
00:47:50.480 --> 00:47:56.000
And then that mastery piece, and a lot of mastery, it constantly shifts.
00:47:56.159 --> 00:48:00.000
So it pushes me, like that was part of what happened a year ago.
00:48:00.079 --> 00:48:10.800
That shift was like I went from feeling like I had mastered, you know, a lot of portions of my work, and then all of a sudden you find out I'm being reset like everyone else, and that's okay.
00:48:11.039 --> 00:48:22.559
But what's driving me to try things is like I just want to feel like I, you know, not like we can have control, but you want to feel like you're proud and you understand what you do and how to do it.
00:48:22.719 --> 00:48:24.159
And I think that drives me.
00:48:24.320 --> 00:48:30.079
So you might have to find for me, it was autonomy, mastery, and purpose, but you might have to find your thing.
00:48:30.239 --> 00:48:37.039
And those are the people too that I think have done well, you know, that I've worked with is those people that figure out those things, you know.
00:48:37.199 --> 00:48:44.960
And I think some people they worry about I've I've worked with people that worry that they might think differently than me, and it, you know, like they may not be right.
00:48:45.039 --> 00:49:01.280
And I said, and and every time I try to say, that's actually when you talked about diversity, the diversity of thought and background and and everything you bring really makes what we do more valuable, and like you learn is that that's what I get out of it.
00:49:01.519 --> 00:49:04.400
So that's probably why I'm still in technical writing.
00:49:04.480 --> 00:49:06.239
It was not sold to me this way.
00:49:06.480 --> 00:49:08.159
I thought it was gonna be really boring.
00:49:08.320 --> 00:49:10.559
I thought we were just gonna be writing user guides.
00:49:10.639 --> 00:49:12.960
It has never been that, like it was at first.
00:49:13.039 --> 00:49:21.840
I will say, Zora, I think I fell asleep in one of my first days because they gave me like a 500-page user guide and told me to read every page and edit it.
00:49:22.000 --> 00:49:24.400
I thought I'm not gonna make it, like, I can't do that.
00:49:24.480 --> 00:49:25.280
You know, like so.
00:49:25.760 --> 00:49:30.159
I mean, you're in a quiet office, it's cool, and you're like, oh, I can't do this.
00:49:30.400 --> 00:49:38.079
But it's been the most surprising thing is that change, that always that desire to so yeah, I I want to do half a million other things.
00:49:38.239 --> 00:49:47.039
I think like you, I would be really good being independently wealthy reading all day and hanging out with cats and dogs and all that and traveling.
00:49:47.119 --> 00:49:53.679
But it's like, yeah, I still need to work and give back and have purpose and probably pay my bills.
00:49:53.920 --> 00:49:56.559
So it's like, well, what can I do well at?
00:49:56.719 --> 00:50:01.199
Because I think that's the hardest decision when you're at earlier in your career, you're like, is this really what I do?
00:50:01.280 --> 00:50:03.119
And it's like, well, you could really pick anything, right?
00:50:03.199 --> 00:50:04.320
I don't know if you felt that way.
00:50:04.400 --> 00:50:12.480
I felt like I could have gone into dozens of different fields, but you gotta pick one, something something that pays for the lifestyle you want to have, right?
00:50:13.119 --> 00:50:22.559
And you just have to figure out for me, it was autonomy, mastery, and purpose for but for someone else, what it gets you through the day, and variety gets me through the day.
00:50:22.639 --> 00:50:23.840
I don't know that's true for everyone.
00:50:23.920 --> 00:50:24.320
I don't know.
00:50:24.400 --> 00:50:26.880
Are you that way or do you prefer consistency?
00:50:27.360 --> 00:50:28.400
Probably the same thing.
00:50:28.559 --> 00:50:49.039
I don't think part of I mean my part of what I stayed was for the people, but also I have learned too, you have to find the workplace that matches the kind of enthusiasm we bring to the role because I do often hear from peers in the field, and I I think to myself, like I saw, I don't remember who did the poll on LinkedIn.
00:50:49.199 --> 00:50:51.199
They're like, what's your most frequent tool that you use?
00:50:51.360 --> 00:50:56.079
And people were still saying Microsoft Word, Sora, and I thought, I absolutely cannot.
00:50:56.320 --> 00:51:00.400
I don't think I could work in a place where like my primary tools word.
00:51:00.800 --> 00:51:04.400
And it just goes to show you, but that might be for someone else, right?
00:51:04.639 --> 00:51:04.960
Yes.
00:51:05.199 --> 00:51:08.159
But you have to find if you're unhappy, and it's hard.
00:51:08.239 --> 00:51:17.760
The it's not a great time to find different jobs, but if you're open, try to find a place that matches the kind of energy you bring and does the work that you enjoy.
00:51:18.000 --> 00:51:24.639
So, you know, we're the kind of work that our company does makes it easier because you know, what we're doing.
00:51:24.719 --> 00:51:31.360
And you have to find, I mean, I've heard people talk about the stress of other industries, and I think some people could thrive, like healthcare.
00:51:31.519 --> 00:51:37.440
Remember someone saying, you know, how very specific and technical, and you have to be 100% accurate.
00:51:37.519 --> 00:51:41.280
And I thought to myself, I don't think I'm the person to thrive in that environment.
00:51:41.360 --> 00:51:47.119
But I know there's other people that are so detailed and technical, and they thrive on that.
00:51:47.199 --> 00:51:51.760
So really, and that was always one of them, I used to love giving talks to college students.
00:51:51.840 --> 00:51:58.000
And I was trying to tell them what is great about this field is you can find technical writing in a variety of companies.
00:51:58.239 --> 00:52:08.719
And it's easier if you find a company that does the kind of work you like, you know, like for me, it's obviously I enjoy software and I enjoy the kind of customers we have.
00:52:08.880 --> 00:52:22.000
But for others, healthcare, like if you love science and medicine, but you're like, oh, I don't want to spend the money to become a doctor, and I'm really good at communicating, that might be your avenue, you know, like trying to figure out where we fit.
00:52:22.320 --> 00:52:23.039
Where we fit.
00:52:23.199 --> 00:52:30.559
Yeah, and just yeah, and giving, you know, I feel like I told you, I feel lucky that I didn't have to switch jobs a bunch.
00:52:30.719 --> 00:52:35.360
I looked every now and then just to see if there was something that struck my fancy.
00:52:35.440 --> 00:52:37.440
We all go through that's the other thing.
00:52:37.599 --> 00:52:42.480
I think everybody thinks that once you're a high performer, you're a high performer, right, Zora?
00:52:42.639 --> 00:52:45.920
But everybody has roller coasters in a calendar year.
00:52:46.159 --> 00:52:53.519
You get low motivation or you're just drained, and you have to give yourself permission to kind of have lows and highs.
00:52:53.760 --> 00:52:56.559
And I think you'll see that cycle in your career as well.
00:52:56.639 --> 00:52:59.679
Because sometimes you're thinking, I really want a new challenge.
00:52:59.760 --> 00:53:00.960
I want to see what that's out there.
00:53:01.039 --> 00:53:03.039
And sometimes it is the right move.
00:53:03.280 --> 00:53:07.519
And other times you're thinking, I don't know, the one I've got is pretty great.
00:53:07.679 --> 00:53:09.280
Obviously, I feel that way so far.
00:53:09.360 --> 00:53:11.440
I don't know what the next 10 years will bring.
00:53:11.599 --> 00:53:21.360
I think there's some colleagues we have in the field that probably thought they were bringing that to their company, and their company decided they didn't want them and they're kind of like forced to change.
00:53:21.599 --> 00:53:26.880
And I hope for each one of them they find that next company that feels the same way they do.
00:53:27.039 --> 00:53:43.840
And it might take some trying, but I do want people newer to the field that are thinking about it is if your situation's not great, or you know, I've had some not so great managers before Black Bot, and it's like, well, don't put up with it, you know, if you can, you know, it's it's much easier to get a new job while you have one, right?
00:53:44.079 --> 00:53:54.960
So, but know what you're worth and what if you want a company to match your energy, your your team to manage your energy, if you don't think it's the right fit, you have to give yourself permission to like be open to that, right?
00:53:55.119 --> 00:54:01.679
Yeah, I think I have enjoyed, I hope you have too, enjoyed the flexibility we have.
00:54:01.840 --> 00:54:09.199
Like I have my to-do list and my projects, and as long as I'm getting done, I get them done in the order that I I want to get them done.
00:54:09.440 --> 00:54:10.000
Absolutely.
00:54:10.079 --> 00:54:10.239
Yeah.
00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:13.840
And I yeah, and I think everybody needs to find what works for you, right?
00:54:14.000 --> 00:54:18.159
I mean, how have you felt about if you've been at BlackBod six of your 20 years?
00:54:18.400 --> 00:54:21.199
Has there been one particular thing you enjoy about?
00:54:21.679 --> 00:54:29.920
I had different like jobs and a little bit, you know, before BlackBod, but I've only been a t full-time technical writer here.
00:54:30.239 --> 00:54:32.880
But you still bring those things, those lessons, right?
00:54:32.960 --> 00:54:43.760
And I feel like we should brag about Denise Cadillac a little bit because I can't talk about my career without having someone like her model for someone like me.
00:54:44.000 --> 00:54:54.320
She was always so impressive and still is, and just the way that she approaches work and you know, the way that she has been so technical.
00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:58.960
And, you know, she I remember her trying to explain Dida to us and how we might use it.
00:54:59.039 --> 00:55:09.199
And I was like, I don't know, like, but the fact that you know, like she just had that, you know, modeled that curiosity and so intelligent, absolutely so positive.
00:55:09.440 --> 00:55:19.119
And when she got the opportunity to lead our team, I don't know, it just it was like we could have been nervous about the future when you have change, but I couldn't, I don't know about you.
00:55:19.199 --> 00:55:24.960
I just can't count myself luckier because every time I'm like, oh, I gonna meet with Denise, how's it gonna go?
00:55:25.119 --> 00:55:27.760
And she's just so positive and encouraging.
00:55:27.840 --> 00:55:31.599
And you think to yourself, wow, like I don't know what next year is gonna bring.
00:55:31.760 --> 00:55:42.239
But if you have people in your corner or people inspire you, people who model the behavior, like that's why I never initially thought I would switch from an individual contributor to managing people.
00:55:42.480 --> 00:55:51.039
But seeing what she's done, I'm like, there's so much inspiration there because now she compounds everything she's done by how she leads us.
00:55:51.199 --> 00:55:51.440
Right.
00:55:51.679 --> 00:55:52.960
Gosh, what a blessing.
00:55:53.280 --> 00:55:55.599
And that's what I I don't know.
00:55:55.760 --> 00:55:57.599
I can't gush enough about our team.
00:55:57.760 --> 00:56:02.079
Like, and there's times that you just you can't bring 100% of yourself.
00:56:02.239 --> 00:56:08.239
But I have such a group of people, some of them I have worked with for the whole 20 years.
00:56:08.400 --> 00:56:10.159
I don't think everybody gets that.
00:56:10.400 --> 00:56:15.519
But even the people who come and go, most of them have left such a good impact on me.
00:56:15.599 --> 00:56:21.280
Like, we just lost someone that like someone else out some other else snatched her away.
00:56:21.440 --> 00:56:27.760
I just learned so much from her time with our who you're talking about, and I am heartbroken about that, honestly.
00:56:28.079 --> 00:56:29.920
But you you realize what do they say?
00:56:30.000 --> 00:56:36.719
There's a theory that there's like a train, and people come into your life and they're with you on that train for those stops, and then they leave.
00:56:36.800 --> 00:56:42.719
And there's always a reason, but I try to focus instead on being lucky and like what I learned in that time.
00:56:43.119 --> 00:56:45.840
And I think sometimes we focus, you know.
00:56:45.920 --> 00:56:58.000
Yes, I try to focus my lessons and my learnings on the work and becoming more valuable and more experienced and understanding how to do things, but I think it always, I don't know about you, so it always comes back to the people.
00:56:58.159 --> 00:56:59.679
Like it does, absolutely.
00:56:59.840 --> 00:57:08.719
I think it's always the people because the person that you're talking about, for me, it's almost like a personal loss because I've learned so much from her.
00:57:09.280 --> 00:57:10.960
And this is my way of saying thanks.
00:57:11.039 --> 00:57:13.599
I wish I could name her, but I'm sure she would not approve of it.
00:57:14.480 --> 00:57:15.920
She wouldn't, yeah, she would hate it.
00:57:16.079 --> 00:57:33.280
But I'm definitely going to tell her privately to hopefully listen to this episode because because the impact that she's left on us on our team is tremendous, and it's it is always the people, and that's what has made me stay at this company because it's the people and the positive culture that we have.
00:57:34.000 --> 00:57:46.480
A lot can happen within your greater company, things you like or don't like, and it it's always this cycle, but our little bubble, our little team our little team, our little tribe has really looked out for each other, and that's that is what I value.
00:57:47.360 --> 00:57:52.719
Like the person that just I'm so proud and excited for her next opportunity, of course.
00:57:52.880 --> 00:57:55.679
But I don't think they always know what an impact they have.
00:57:55.760 --> 00:58:02.880
And sometimes you don't realize you, you know, I did try to say something before she left, but you just realize like you want to be able to share.
00:58:03.039 --> 00:58:08.239
And it's that's how I feel about like I haven't got a chance to work closely with every single person in our team.
00:58:08.320 --> 00:58:20.079
Not yet, you know, you things ebb and flow, but that's I think maybe like you said, there's so much you can learn from other people if you, you know, open yourself up to it and see how they do things.
00:58:20.400 --> 00:58:27.199
And this person, when they joined the team, they just I don't know, it's just so fun to they thought so different for me, right?
00:58:27.440 --> 00:58:32.400
And I could say that true for everyone, but this person in particular is like, I was just fascinated.
00:58:32.639 --> 00:58:40.719
Maybe that helps like some of my background and my undergrad with psychology, but oh gosh, I think I'm just fascinated by people.
00:58:41.039 --> 00:58:51.599
So yeah, anything that keeps it interesting and like people like that that come and go, you're like, oh, I'm so I instead try to reframe it from the loss to what I gain.
00:58:51.840 --> 00:58:57.599
Like, how lucky am I to have learned whatever that is from that person while I got to work with them?
00:58:57.920 --> 00:59:02.880
And personalities can clash with other, you know, with different people on the team.
00:59:03.119 --> 00:59:07.199
But it if you can try to figure out like what are you meant to learn from them?
00:59:07.280 --> 00:59:09.280
And sometimes it's like what not to do.
00:59:09.519 --> 00:59:12.880
I've had people like that in my life, including family members.
00:59:13.119 --> 00:59:17.519
You're like, oh, I don't that seems scary, or I don't like that, right?
00:59:17.760 --> 00:59:21.199
So you can learn both, you know, what not to do and what to do.
00:59:21.440 --> 00:59:33.360
But gosh, maybe that's the best part about being a technical writer is even though I'm an introvert and I love going off and tinkering in my brain, I almost love just being an observer and just learning or listening.
00:59:33.440 --> 00:59:39.519
And because I don't think we often retrospect on our careers and what we're learning and what excites us.
00:59:39.679 --> 00:59:52.800
And you know, if anybody wants to like chat more, Zora, you know, I love connecting on LinkedIn or however you want to reach, you know, if you you know see me at a conference, I think I'll have to do more of them.
00:59:52.880 --> 00:59:54.239
Um I think you should.
00:59:54.639 --> 00:59:55.360
Keep going.
00:59:55.840 --> 00:59:57.039
I'm rooting for you.
00:59:57.519 --> 01:00:01.119
Thank you for the encouragement and thank you for inviting me on your podcast.
01:00:01.280 --> 01:00:08.880
I really enjoyed kind of thinking about like what we're doing and I don't know, trying to be encouraging when things can feel very discouraging.
01:00:09.039 --> 01:00:20.159
Like I think we often hear, especially in our field, we're like we might hear some more of like we of course we want to share like the fears and the negative things, but it's like, well, how do we get through it?
01:00:20.480 --> 01:00:25.360
And I don't want to just sit and be afraid and wait for the change to happen.
01:00:25.599 --> 01:00:27.760
I at least want to be prepared.
01:00:27.920 --> 01:00:34.079
Like, and if for some reason it's not at my current company, I want to be prepared for wherever it takes me next.
01:00:34.239 --> 01:00:40.159
And I just I thought, heck, out of anything, I'll just make more connections with people where we'll talk, you know.
01:00:40.880 --> 01:00:43.440
All of the above, you know, there isn't right or wrong.
01:00:43.679 --> 01:00:43.920
Yeah.
01:00:44.079 --> 01:00:52.079
I had a little caffeine to make sure my synapses were firing, but really, I think I'm excited, even though neither of us are spring chickens.
01:00:52.159 --> 01:00:54.159
Uh, I'm excited to see what you do next.
01:00:54.320 --> 01:01:02.079
Like, that's like part of this whole experiment, too, is like you you and I talked, and this is how I think it I'm like, okay, what is Zora gonna do next?
01:01:02.719 --> 01:01:04.880
Or what is someone else gonna do next?
01:01:05.119 --> 01:01:08.400
Yes, and thank you, Zora, for making that invitation.
01:01:08.639 --> 01:01:12.480
Maybe in another five years we'll regroup about whatever amazing things.
01:01:12.960 --> 01:01:15.119
Yeah, there's always some adventure.
01:01:15.199 --> 01:01:21.519
There's gonna be highs and lows, but I look forward to where we go next and I appreciate uh the chance to talk to you about it.
01:01:21.920 --> 01:01:22.719
Thanks, Lindsay.